All discussions regarding the Grand Ave project are to be posted here.

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The Grand Avenue Project will transform the civic and cultural districts of downtown Los Angeles into a vibrant new regional center which will showcase entertainment venues, restaurants, and retail mixed with a hotel and up to 2600 new housing units. These new uses will add to the notable features that already exist at the top of Bunker Hill, including the Walt Disney Concert Hall, the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels, the Music Center, the Colburn School of Performing Arts, and the Museum of Contemporary Art. Also to be improved as part of the project is the existing County Mall, which will be transformed into a 16 acre park stretching from the Music Center at the top of Bunker Hill to City Hall at the bottom of the Hill. The park will become the new "Central Park" of Los Angeles and will be the scene of many citywide celebrations as well as daily events.

The total estimated cost of the project is $2.05 billion, which includes up to 3.6 million square feet of development, the creation of the new park, streetscape improvements as well as outdoor public spaces throughout the development. The public amenities will be funded by private sources and by public funds generated by the project. The project will create 29,000 construction jobs (both on and off-site), 5,900 long-term jobs and will generate over $35.6 million annually in local, county and state taxes.

Very good 300, know we can have this forum in order.......

Do we have any updates on Gehry's Signature Tower yet?

I wouldn't expect any major news regarding Grand Ave until summer.

If they're taking this long on the project maybe they're really pulling it off! Someone should sneak into Gehry's studio to check out plans!

If they're taking this long on the project maybe they're really pulling it off! Someone should sneak into Gehry's studio to check out plans!

Gehry has a habit of taking his sweet time designing buildings. Plus he has a few projects in the US he's making.

Like Disney Hall, 1988-2003 :ohno:

Here is some news from the LA Times today..


Redevelopment agency to vote on the Grand Avenue project
Questions about tax breaks for the $2-billion downtown complex are still unanswered.
By Jeffrey L. Rabin and Cara Mia DiMassa, Times Staff Writers
February 1, 2007

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The plan to transform a stretch of downtown's Grand Avenue into a Frank Gehry-designed cultural and retail hub is expected to clear another major hurdle today, although key questions about public financial support for the development remain unresolved.

The city hasn't decided yet whether to grant Grand Avenue the estimated $40 million in parking and hotel tax breaks that developers say are crucial to building the project near the Walt Disney Concert Hall.

Ultimately, it will be up to the Los Angeles City Council to decide whether to approve the tax breaks, a vote expected to come later this month. In the meantime, the Community Redevelopment Agency is to vote on the deal today — the latest in a series of government approvals the project needs.

The revitalization of Grand Avenue is the vision of philanthropist Eli Broad, who two years ago vowed that it would be accomplished "without using one dollar of general fund money from the city or the county."

The $2-billion high-rise project of cultural, retail, residential and business use is a privately financed venture rising on public land — meaning that it inevitably joined public and private interests.

A Times analysis shows that the Grand Avenue Committee, a nonprofit set up by a group of civic leaders to shepherd the project, has spent $4.2 million in public money, from the city and Los Angeles County, to help get the project off the ground.

The money — paid over the last six years — was used to begin the early planning for Grand Avenue. The work was managed by a committee made up of Broad and representatives of the public and private sectors. The committee selected a developer, setting the stage for public approval.

The money paid for the committee's lawyers, consultants and staff members, including Martha Welborne, the project's managing director.

The city and county sent their share of the seed money through the California Community Foundation, a nonprofit group that served as the administrator for the planning effort.

From the beginning, the Grand Avenue project has been marked by a nontraditional public-private marriage. Besides the proposed tax breaks, government agencies are providing the land, investing in street improvements and subsidizing affordable housing in the project.

The developer, Related Cos., and its fiscal partners, meanwhile, are taking much of the financial risk — particularly tenuous in a downtown real estate market that has shown signs of softening. They are also subject to a number of requirements, including the condition that all construction and permanent jobs in the development meet either "prevailing" or "living" wage requirements for the city.

Though each side bears a portion of the project's financial risk, each side also stands to profit if the development is a success. The city and county could reap substantial tax revenue from the project, far more than they receive now from the properties, which are either vacant or used as parking lots.

The Community Redevelopment Agency's board is to consider a package deal to approve the project. Included is $24.4 million in public assistance for street improvements and payments to the developer to subsidize affordable housing in the complex. The agency also must approve long-term leases on public land.

But before the project can break ground, it must also get approval from the City Council and the county Board of Supervisors.

Construction of the first phase — two high-rise residential towers, one with a five-star hotel, and 285,000 square feet of retail space — is expected to start in October and be completed in June 2011.

The entire development would be built on nearly three square blocks on Bunker Hill, amounting to 10 acres. There would also be a 16-acre park stretching from the Los Angeles Music Center to the edge of City Hall.

Bill Witte, president of Related California, said that without a 20-year rebate of the city's hotel tax, which is just above 14%, it would be hard to include a hotel in the project. "It's obviously crucial," Witte said.

Related announced last week that it had signed a deal with the Mandarin Oriental hotel group to manage the project's proposed 275-room hotel.

The developer and the city have been negotiating privately over the hotel tax and parking tax breaks. Neither Witte nor Jerry Miller, the city's chief legislative analyst, would disclose the amount of tax relief involved, but previous estimates put the figure at $40 million.

Councilwoman Jan Perry said Wednesday she expected that the tax breaks would be in line with what Related had requested. She said that the development in her district was "a very exciting model for other projects that may follow this."

Granting tax breaks for high-profile hotel projects is an increasingly common occurrence used by city councils nationwide. In 2005, the city granted another downtown mega-project — L.A. Live, which is not on public land — up to $290 million in subsidies and tax breaks.

To spur construction of a high-rise Convention Center hotel near Staples Center, the council agreed to about $246 million in hotel tax rebates over a 25-year period.

Perry defended the outlay of public money for Grand Avenue. "We're pooling our assets to have the greatest impact, instead of doing this piecemeal, which we have done in the past," she said.

Defenders of the public financing said that without the Grand Avenue Committee, the responsibility for getting the project off the ground would have fallen to already overworked city and county staff members, or to a project management company, which could have cost the government agencies 2% of the full construction costs, or around $40 million.

A handful of civic foundations — including the Broad Foundation, the James Thomas Foundation and the California Community Foundation — kicked in $176,579 in cash and $661,875 in in-kind donations.

Antonia Hernandez, vice chairman of the Grand Avenue Committee and president of the California Community Foundation, said it was important for her organization to support the effort.

"This project is very important for the civic life of Los Angeles," she said. "It's not just cultural. It's a park. It's economic development. It's creating a center for the city where people can come and gather together."

In addition, the committee received $358,000 in developers' fees, mostly from Related.

An MIT-trained architect and urban planner, Welborne, whose last civic project was promoting a rapid bus system for Los Angeles, has spent nearly six years shepherding the Grand Avenue project. She currently receives an annual salary of $246,800.

Welborne is a passionate advocate for the project's role in changing the face of downtown Los Angeles. "If we don't have a good heart of the city, what kind of city do we have?" she said.

Once construction starts, the nation's largest public pension fund is poised to play a key role in financing construction of the development's $775-million first phase.

The California Public Employees Retirement System, which invests the pension dollars of hundreds of thousands of state and local government workers, is a partner in the project along with Related and MacFarlane Partners.

Witte said CalPERS has invested in a number of other Related projects: two projects in Little Tokyo, a planned luxury condo tower in Century City and the Time Warner Center in New York City.

jeff.rabin@latimes.com

cara.dimassa@latimes.com

All we need now is the County and the city to give approvals on Feb 13th and this is a go.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...nes-california

Agency OKs Bunker Hill development
By Cara Mia DiMassa
Times Staff Writer

February 2, 2007

The Community Redevelopment Agency's board of commissioners voted Thursday to give approval to the $2-billion plan to build housing, a hotel and retail spaces on city and county land on an area of Bunker Hill near Walt Disney Concert Hall.

Before the 4-0 vote, with two commissioners absent, more than a dozen public speakers praised the project as a boon to efforts to revitalize downtown Los Angeles. As part of their vote, the commissioners approved spending $24.4 million in city money to fund street improvements and affordable housing in the development's first phase.

Before the project can break ground, expected in October, the deal also must be approved by the Los Angeles City Council and the county Board of Supervisors. Votes by those panels are scheduled for Feb. 13. A city report on the tax rebates for the hotel and parking parts of the project is expected today.

i really wish more focus was given on getting rid of the county buildings ringing the park and building at least a station box for the Downtown Connector. it would make it much easier to build the box now rather than later when they have to go around a completed project. very short sighted in my opinon.

In a ideal world, I would destroy the county buildings, and build Cal Plaza 3. It only makes sense. Cal Plaza 3 is still lurking about and it'll make way for the park..

LosAngelesSportsFan

All we need now is the County and the city to give approvals on Feb 13th and this is a go.


^^ Wow..... let's hope for a "GO" and move full speed ahead with this Mega~Project Downtown!!!

i really wish more focus was given on getting rid of the county buildings ringing the park and building at least a station box for the Downtown Connector. it would make it much easier to build the box now rather than later when they have to go around a completed project. very short sighted in my opinon.

LASF, I can't agree with you anymore. Those county buildings are an eyesore and not exactly architectural gems and will make the Grand Ave Park feel like a private, enclosed space. Aesthetically those buildings just don't fit in and if Grand Ave. is to become our city's cultural hub..those monstrosities must be bulldozed...

The Downtown Connector via a Grand Avenue Park station linking with Disney Hall, Angels Flight, the rest of the financial district of Bunker Hill and South towards LA Live would be a great idea that we should all champion. It would give LA residents so many more reasons to give up their cars and take transit.. even giving it up for one day would make a positive difference.

Those damn County buildings MUST GO! Other than being eyesores, they also limit the accessibility of the park. The park is hidden from view and you wouldn't even know it existed if you didn't walk down Grand and look over the railing. Destroying those buildings would also significantly increase the size of the park and would really open up the space. I would also like to see the other buildings lining the park be destroyed as well. In addition, I think closing off Hill and Broadway would enable people to move about the space more freely and safely.

There are plans to replace the county buildings (they are out of date with regards to the latest seismic and fire standards anyway), but the County must first find a replacement site for its administration buildings...so where should it be?

^ What about that huge parking lot across the street from Ptasaurous Plaza. I believe is on Cesar Chaves Ave?

They should relocate to where the Los Angeles Mall and Latino Museum are.

There are plans to replace the county buildings (they are out of date with regards to the latest seismic and fire standards anyway), but the County must first find a replacement site for its administration buildings...so where should it be?

Ahem...

In a ideal world, I would destroy the county buildings, and build Cal Plaza 3. It only makes sense. Cal Plaza 3 is still lurking about and it'll make way for the park..

also, phase 3 of the Grand Ave project is suppose to have an office complex and i remember hearing that it might be build as a replacement for those county buildings.

Ahem...

The replacement building(s) should be close to the Civic Center somewhere...Not many people know that the Los Angeles Civic Center is the largest concentration of government buildings in the entire USA outside of Washington DC.

Well if the LAPD building is going through some rough times, why not give it up and build the county buildings there. Or make it a mixed use building, with half of the building for the county, and the other half for the LAPD.

Corner of Art and Commerce in Los Angeles

HOW to find meaning in a centerless world? For a half-century, that has been the question facing the strip of corporate towers, cultural landmarks and undeveloped lots known as Grand Avenue in downtown Los Angeles. Time and again the avenue has been the focus of grandiose proposals by civic leaders who dreamed of transforming it into a cultural Acropolis. Angelenos watched the progress from the comfort of their suburban enclaves, mostly with bland indifference.

That all began to change with Frank Gehry’s Walt Disney Concert Hall, completed in 2003, which raised the level of architectural ambition for Grand Avenue. Next month the Los Angeles City Council and the county Board of Supervisors will review revised plans for a retail, residential hotel and entertainment complex that may reveal just how willing the city is to address the deep social rifts beneath the area’s newly polished surface.

Designed by Mr. Gehry for the New York-based Related Companies, the master plan for the site, a choice parcel directly across from Disney Hall, provides a case study for one of the most pressing issues in architecture today. Can the bottom-line world of mainstream development produce something of architectural value at enormous scale? Or is Mr. Gehry simply there to provide a veneer of cultural pretension?

The project also offers a lens on the conflicts that continue to define the identity of downtown Los Angeles today: the tension between the fortified cultural and business district at the top of the hill and the vibrant Latino district to the east; between traditional East Coast planning formulas and this city’s informal urban landscape; between its high-culture aspirations and its pop-culture ethos. How Mr. Gehry negotiates all this could determine whether downtown Los Angeles will ever matter to anyone but civic boosters and curiosity seekers.

The downtown area’s decline dates from the late 1920s, when the birth of the Miracle Mile on Wilshire Boulevard heralded the triumph of a new motorized culture. For decades since, promoters of downtown Los Angeles have struggled to stem the exodus of businesses to the palm-lined streets of Old Town Pasadena, Westwood and Beverly Hills. Meanwhile cultural critics like Reyner Banham skewered the very concept of a traditional downtown core in a city best grasped through the windshield of a car.

The redevelopment of Grand Avenue has been the most significant effort so far to reverse that trend. It also ranks among the most misguided.

First conceived in the 1950s by downtown power brokers like Buffy Chandler, the wife of Norman Chandler, who was then the publisher of The Los Angeles Times, the avenue was intended as a citadel of office towers and cultural monuments at the top of Bunker Hill. To create it, planners bulldozed a vast neighborhood of Victorian houses, replacing them with a network of freeway ramps, tunnels, underground roadways and elevated streets crowned by a sprawling Music Center at one end and a cluster of ominous-looking towers clad in dark glass and slickly polished masonry at the other.

In architectural terms the avenue said as much about the city’s cultural insecurities as its growing ambitions. The Music Center’s barren concrete plinth and fusion of classical and modern de'cor are an unoriginal takeoff on New York’s Lincoln Center; the generic corporate towers mirror those found in every American city, sleek corporate citadels devoid of imagination. Yet the architecture also masked an insidious social agenda: like other cities seeking to make themselves palatable to squeamish suburbanites and tourists, planners walled off the new cultural and business district from the rest of downtown.

Its elevated plazas, under the constant surveillance of security cameras and private guards, formed a virtual cliff that towered over the Latino underclass shopping in dilapidated Beaux-Arts buildings and theaters a few blocks to the east. The isolation became more glaring as the city’s growing density and booming Latino culture began to suggest a different reality.

That history began to turn with Disney Hall, which unlike its neighbors is woven into its immediate surroundings. Its sweeping steel facade, which unfurls like a ribbon along the avenue, echoes the curved facade of the Chandler Pavilion next door, its forms lifting up to allow the life inside the lobby to spill out onto the avenue. Grand stairs climb to a verdant public garden that wraps like a necklace around the rear of the building.

When Related hired Mr. Gehry in 2005 to design its entertainment and retail complex too, it seemed like a promising step. Few architects are as familiar with the avenue’s history or have played a bigger role in shaping the city’s architectural legacy. And although the project did not seem nearly as glamorous as Disney Hall, it was viewed as critical to the avenue’s success. Situated on the east slope of Bunker Hill alongside the Colburn School of Music and the Museum of Contemporary Art, it presents one of the last opportunities to repair the fractured link between the new cultural district and the old city center.

Yet in some ways the project represents a return to the predictable approach long favored by large-scale urban developers across the country. Related has now decided that the Mandarin Oriental Hotel will occupy the lower half of the south tower. (Bill Witte, president of Related’s California division, said the hotel’s cachet would help “brand” the residential condos.)

The developers also plan to include more than a half-dozen restaurants, a bookstore, health club and a boutique supermarket, the staples of today’s high-end shopping mall. It’s the same formula the developer used for the Time Warner Center, the vertical mall that seems so out of place on Columbus Circle.

Meanwhile Mr. Gehry and Related have engaged in a quiet tug of war over how open the development should be to its surroundings. In an early version of the design, the two residential towers were set at the site’s northeast and southwest corners, visually framing the complex and anchoring it into the surrounding skyline. A series of two- and three-story retail buildings, loosely stacked upon one another like a child’s building blocks, were scattered along Grand Avenue, creating an informal street wall that served as a counterpoint to the flowing stainless-steel forms of Disney Hall.

These forms broke apart to allow street life to flow into the retail complex. Inside, the blocks framed small open-air courtyards overlooked by terraces. A staircase cascaded down from one of the courtyards to the corner of Olive and Second Streets, a gesture intended to open up the complex to the more chaotic street life farther down the hill.

Over the last year, as Mr. Gehry struggled to contain rising construction estimates, his boxlike forms became more static, lending the design a more formal symmetry. The proposed facades of the two towers (one 22 stories, the other 45), which originally included fractured planes of glass that gave the impression that they were coming apart at the seams, are also less dynamic, forming a polite backdrop to Disney Hall across the avenue.

Mr. Gehry added a large terrace above Olive Street so that visitors strolling down from Grand Avenue would pass under an elevated walkway to a sweeping view of the downtown skyline to the east. But in a major reversal, the developers forced Mr. Gehry to remove the cascading staircase that was the project’s main link to the life at the bottom of the hill, a bustle that spreads from Olive Street to Broadway’s Latino shopping district and beyond, to Little Tokyo.

Mr. Gehry has tried to compensate for this by anchoring the corner with a restaurant and packing more stores into Olive Street. He has also decorated his boxlike buildings with swirling canopies to pump life back into the restaurants and shops above. But the towering block-long facade that faces Olive Street is an eerie echo of the clifflike 1980s-era corporate plazas just to the south. And he still faces the challenge of overcoming the social apartheid of downtown Los Angeles: high culture separated from low, upper-middle-class concertgoers from working-class Latino shoppers.

The pressure to compromise puts Mr. Gehry in an awkward position. As a relatively unknown architect in the mid-1980s he captured the public imagination with a series of projects that drew on the bleaker, oft-maligned corners of the American metropolis: mini-malls, chain-link fences, corrugated metal sheds, cheap stud-wall construction in the suburbs. Projects like his 1978 house in Santa Monica, a stunning blend of tilting angles and mundane materials, and the Edgemar outdoor shopping mall there, with its signature elevator tower wrapped in chain link, were conceived as a salvo against the superficial glamour of places like Beverly Hills.

By making room for outsiders and misfits, as well as the weary working-class suburbanites and Hollywood Boulevard drifters who were the flip side of the American dream, Mr. Gehry emerged as a populist hero.

In subsequent years, as he began working for cultural institutions that are open to architectural experimentation, he ventured into ever more flamboyant territory and became a global name. Now that he has returned to working with mainstream developers, Mr. Gehry says, he has far more leverage than he did 20 years ago.

But the Grand Avenue development may ultimately say more about the limits of any architect’s power than about Mr. Gehry’s elevated status. Scanning a collection of study models for the plan at his office recently, I asked whether he might draw on his early history — the cheap materials and crude populist aesthetic that could be used to break down the avenue’s sense of exclusivity — for inspiration here.

In other words, why not pick up the thread he discarded years ago rather than try to create glamour on the cheap?

Mr. Gehry paused for a minute. “My question has always been how well the developer could adapt themselves to this mixed ethnic neighborhood,” he said. “It’s uniquely L.A. and it’s very powerful, and the push-pull is about how do you do that. Hopefully it’ll happen over time.”

If not, he may have to stick to clients whose values better match his own.

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Grand Avenue Keeps Moving

The Community Redevelopment Agency last Thursday voted unanimously to approve Related Cos.' $2.05 billion Grand Avenue Project. The development aims to bring 2,600 housing units and 449,000 square feet of retail to the top of Bunker Hill, including two Frank Gehry-designed towers and a 16-acre public park. The CRA is allocating about $24 million in public funds toward streetscaping and affordable housing. At the Feb. 1 meeting, union and community leaders spoke in support of the project. While the development will feature luxury amenities like a five-star Mandarin Oriental hotel, a high-end grocery store and health club, the developer is also incorporating community-oriented planning, including 100 units of affordable housing, a promised 30% of construction jobs to local workers and a revolving loan for more supportive housing facilities. "I think this is worth every single penny of public investment," CRA Commissioner Madeline Janis told the packed meeting. The project still needs the approval of two council committees, the full Council and the County Board of Supervisors. Those bodies must ultimately decide whether or not to approve Related's request for hotel and parking tax breaks.

Two more councils and we have cranes for Grand Av.

why in the hell does it take so long to get things approved? haven't all the studies been done already?

Grand Avenue Prepares for a Big Week

City, County Scheduled to Vote On $2 Billion Plan Tuesday

by Kathleen Nye Flynn

A major step in the future of Downtown Los Angeles is scheduled for Tuesday, Feb. 13, when both the Los Angeles City Council and the County Board of Supervisors are set to vote on the $2 billion Grand Avenue plan.

The city will discuss the most critical - and contentious - part of the project: requests by developer Related Cos. to receive rebates on parking lot and hotel taxes, which could add up to more than $60 million, according to a report recently released by the city's Chief Legislative Analyst.

"We have a pretty unique coalition of support which spans the business community, most of organized labor, the Downtown Neighborhood Council and the Community Benefits Coalition," said Bill Witte, president of Related Cos. "Because of the breadth and depth of that support, we are optimistic."

The first phase of the project would bring two Frank Gehry-designed towers, a 16-acre park, shops, restaurants and about 500 housing units to three blocks of county and city land on the top of Bunker Hill. Related Cos. said construction of the initial phase could start this October and wrap in 2011.

Earlier this month, the project was unanimously approved by the Community Redevelopment Agency, which is contributing $24.4 million for affordable housing and street improvements. The council's Housing, Community and Economic Development Committee approved the project on Feb. 6.

Gerry Miller, the city's chief legislative analyst, released a review of the project on Feb. 2, recommending that the City Council approve it. The report backed Related's request for 20 years of hotel tax rebates and 10 years of parking lot tax rebates.
*

The report found that the city would only use the money that is generated from the project itself and will not take funds out of its own coffers, said Miller.

"It is important to keep in mind that we are putting in money we wouldn't have otherwise," Miller said. "Without this investment, it is not feasible for developers to do the project."

The rebates will come out to $66 million, about half the total revenue that the first phase of the project will generate for the city, Miller said. The additional revenue would go into the city's general fund.

Without the rebates, investors would be hesitant to participate because the hotel revenue would not outweigh construction costs, said both Witte and Miller.

After the hotel is complete, Miller said he plans to recalculate the actual construction costs and readjust the rebates accordingly. The city would give fewer rebates if the construction costs are lower than expected, but will not give more than the agreed-upon cap of $66 million, even if construction costs exceed the predicted amount, he said.

Before reaching the City Council on Tuesday, the project will first head to the council's Business and Finance Committee on Monday, Feb. 12.

Editorial

Approve the Grand Avenue Plan

As soon as Feb. 13, the Los Angeles City Council and the County Board of Supervisors could vote on the $2 billion plan to transform Grand Avenue. Currently, the chief question is whether the project's hotel and parking facilities should get tax breaks that, over 20 years, could be worth as much as $66 million; that would come on top of $24 million in infrastructure improvements and housing subsidies.

This is probably the most important vote the governmental bodies will make regarding Downtown Los Angeles this year. Approving it means construction would go forward, with a potential groundbreaking this October. Rejecting it would put the entire plan up in the air, making it not impossible, but uncertain. It deserves the most serious consideration.

Los Angeles Downtown News strongly urges the governing bodies to approve this project. We're not pleased about the hotel tax break - a figure, by the way, about $20 million higher than reported early estimates - but we believe the development has the capacity to do tremendous good and bring many improvements and benefits, including hundreds of units of low-income or workforce housing, to Downtown, something which helps the entire city with its shortage of such residences. It also brings jobs and a broad boost to the Southern California economy. The potential pluses outweigh the significant costs.

It has not been easy for developer Related Cos. to get to this point, and they have been pushed, questioned and forced to make concessions on every aspect of the deal. That's a good thing - the project's main structures will rise on land owned by the city and the county, and our government officials need to negotiate the best deal possible for the taxpayers.

The project is so important because of what Grand Avenue is today versus what it could become: In 2007, taken as a whole, it is, frankly, nothing special. As is, it misses its destiny.

Grand Avenue atop Bunker Hill is a largely empty stretch of road that does not come close to meeting the standards set by the architectural highlights already on the street: Starting at Temple and running south, these include the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels (by Pritzker Prize-winning architect José Rafael Moneo), the principal Music Center campus, Frank Gehry's Walt Disney Concert Hall, the expanding Colburn School and Arata Isozaki's Museum of Contemporary Art. Down the hill at Fifth Street is the marvel of the Central Library.
*

The highlights of the Grand Avenue project are a 50-story tower by Gehry, which will include a five-star Mandarin Oriental hotel, and another 25-floor high-rise. The first phase of the project includes a 16-acre park connecting the Music Center and City Hall. Over the life of the plan there are also slated to be about 2,600 housing units - 20% of them set aside for low-income tenants - and nearly 450,000 square feet of retail space. It's possible the retail is overdone, but we think that aspect will shake itself out as market forces come into play.

We also think the park, while probably extraordinary, could be considered an unnecessary expenditure. The wide river of open space between the Music Center and City Hall is adequately pleasant as is, but the refurbished park is a legacy project of influential players and will almost certainly happen. Taking it off the table as a Related requirement would give the government some additional negotiating power if they are serious about saving the public's money. We're not recommending they eliminate the park. We're just pointing out this optional element so that Grand Avenue watchers can keep in context the elected officials' histrionics about the costs.

Even with the arguable shortcomings of the plan, Grand Avenue is still worth doing.

There is an enormous investment by all involved here, and should the project work, it will result in a hefty profit for Related. But mega-projects sometimes underperform and underwhelm, such as the Hollywood and Highland complex. It is important for those who reject the deal outright because of the tax breaks (arguing that the money could be better spent on the homeless or other places) to remember that Related is taking the biggest financial risk here.

One also needs to keep in mind that the hotel and parking tax breaks are different than taking money from the general fund. The 14% hotel room tax, by itself estimated to be worth up to $60.5 million, would not ever materialize without the hotel.

A city audit said the money is necessary to make the entire development feasible. That's the city weighing in, not just the developer. While some will scoff, the city in fact has a history of doing its homework well on big projects. Even with all the tax breaks that were finally negotiated for Staples Center, the economic energy created by the project has paid dividends far beyond what anyone projected. Along with its sales tax revenues, Staples propelled a wave of new projects in the surrounding blocks, ones that have turned around the once moribund South Park.

Along with urging approval, however, we encourage city and county officials to play a watchdog role in the development, to ensure that Related keeps its promises, which include a percentage of jobs to local workers and a loan for more "supportive" housing, the kind which includes treatment and other programs for low-income individuals who need more than a roof over their heads. And there should absolutely be strictures against coming to local government in the future and asking for additional money. The city is allowing enough breaks as is.

The new Grand Avenue will not be for everyone - many Angelenos will never visit it, just as many from the Central City rarely if ever head to Ventura Boulevard in the Valley - and some will always revile at what may seem like a playground for the upscale. But the project, as negotiated and envisioned, has public benefits and the potential to make Downtown a better community and bring economic energy to the city. Because of this, we urge the Council and the Supervisors to approve the Grand Avenue plan.

Both the City and the County supported the project, the City unanimously, the County 4 -1 (we all know the idiot that opposed)!!!! Lets get it started!

Here is an article from the DT LA News and a second by the LA Times.

City Council Approves Grand Avenue Plan
Work on $2 Billion Project Could Begin This Fall

by Kathleen Nye Flynn and Kathryn Maese
The City Council this morning unanimously approved a long-awaited, $2.05 billion plan to revamp a stretch of Grand Avenue atop Bunker Hill with two high-rises that will include a high-end hotel and condominiums, along with a retail promenade.
The 14-0 vote at 11:52 a.m. pushed through a contentious package of tax rebates and exemptions for developer Related Cos., which could be worth up to $66 million over 20 years from the public parking and hotel components.
“I’m gratified that people did their homework,” said Related President Bill Witte, adding that the council members made a strong effort to “demystify” details of the project. “Even if they weren’t from Downtown they understood.”
The approval means Related could begin construction as soon as October (the County Board of Supervisors is also expected to approve the plan this afternoon).
“Today is a culmination of many years of work,” said Councilwoman Jan Perry, who sits on the Joint Powers Authority overseeing the project. “This is about jobs, housing at all income levels onsite, a tremendous amount of open space for the entire city of Los Angeles.”
Proponents of the plan said the project would not be feasible without the tax breaks, particularly since investors are wary that projected revenue from the 50-story Frank Gehry-designed high-rise would not outweigh construction costs. A report from the city’s Chief Legislative Analyst stated that the money would not come from city’s general fund, but would instead be generated by the project itself.
“When I approach these types of projects there are two essential questions that have to be answered,” said CLA Gerry Miller during the meeting. “The first is, is it net new money and/or is the general fund potentially at risk? The second is, is public reinvestment necessary to make the project feasible? Unless the answer to both of those questions is yes, there’s really no point in proceeding with the discussion. In this case the answers to both of those question are in fact yes. This is all net new money.”
The $775 million first phase would unfold along Grand with buildings rising on lots owned by the city and county. The plan calls for two towers, one of which will include the five-star Mandarin Oriental hotel at a cost of $185 million.
Also planned is a 16-acre civic park, shops, a market, restaurants and about 500 housing units. Related has agreed to hold 20% of the apartments for low-income renters. Construction is expected to take about four years.
Two later phases could add 164,000 square feet of retail, 2,160 residential units and another hotel. Those stages would also include 20% affordable housing.
Detractors of the mega-development have said that money that could go to municipal coffers should not be given to private developers, especially given Related’s plan to build thousands of market-rate housing units. Likewise, some hoteliers said the tax break for the Mandarin hotel is not fair to competitors.
“Subsidies for this luxury hotel and condos are unneeded and based on a fraudulent study,” said Chris Sutton, an attorney for the 1,100-room Westin Bonaventure hotel. He added that he plans to litigate and seek referendum petitions if necessary.
Contact Kathleen Nye Flynn at kathleen@downtownnews.com.


City Council approves Grand Avenue project
By Cara Mia DiMassa, Times Staff Writer
12:22 PM PST, February 13, 2007


- Give Grand Ave. the go-ahead
- A grand vision for affordable housing
- Grand Avenue project needs help, report says
- Redevelopment agency to vote on the Grand Avenue project
- Grand Avenue project signs deal for hotel
- $2-billion downtown overhaul in the red
Despite criticism about tax breaks and land giveaways, the Los Angeles City Council today unanimously approved a sprawling mini-city atop Bunker Hill that will alter L.A.'s skyline and set a course for future development in downtown and beyond.

Council members described the vote as a turning point for Los Angeles, which for decades has been trying without success to establish a central cultural hub in downtown that would draw people from around the region.

"This is a historic day for Los Angeles. It changes the entire complexion of the center of our city," said philanthropist Eli Broad, who spearheaded the development.

Grand Avenue has emerged as perhaps L.A.'s most ambitious effort at creating dense high-rise developments that attempt to place housing next to rail lines, jobs, cultural attractions and shopping.

While some consider it a model for "smart growth" aimed at encouraging people to walk and take mass transit rather than drive, others see it as a tax giveaway that is not in the interests of local government. They also question whether the project would be the regional magnet its backers hope.

The developer, Related Cos., says the $2-billion project, designed by Frank O. Gehry, is financially unfeasible without the subsidies.

Early estimates put the tax rebates at $40 million over 20 years, but the legislative analyst's report estimated that the rebates could cost $66 million.

Related has spent months negotiating behind the scenes for the tax breaks, an increasingly common incentive used by cities to attract catalytic projects.

The city conducted an independent audit, which concluded that "the funding to support the project would be 'net new' revenues generated by the project itself, and that public participation is essential to make the project economically feasible."

The largest tax break would be in the 14% city hotel tax, a maximum of $60.5 million over 20 years.

Gehry designed the first phase of the project, the centerpiece of which is a translucent, glass-curtained tower rising 47 stories above his landmark Walt Disney Concert Hall.

His schematic designs call for two L-shaped towers, the 47-story structure and a 24-story building, at opposite ends of the block east of the concert hall.

The designs are for Phase 1 of an ambitious plan by Related, Broad and top city and county officials to transform a part of downtown known as a 9-to-5 office community into a vibrant place where people would live, shop and dine.

The design attempts to connect the new buildings to Disney Hall by installing a grid of light strings crisscrossing Grand Avenue, from the towers and pavilions to the hall. Also to that end, Gehry wants to repave Grand Avenue in a pattern of varying shades of stone, to create connections among the street, the buildings and the planned civic park nearby.

The taller of Gehry's buildings would be covered in a dramatic glass design. Preliminary models show either striped panels of alternating shaded glass or a pleated glass surface that looks like fabric folded around the building. The smaller building would have a more austere form, looking like a light-filled glass box.

Three shopping and dining pavilions would rise near the base of the two towers, mimicking the undulating lines and rough forms of Disney Hall but constructed of stone and glass rather than steel. Elaborate plantings of trees and other greenery on above-ground floors would create the effect of a hanging garden.

While the project has attracted mostly praise at recent public meetings, the request for tax breaks does have its detractors.

Some have argued that by granting the subsidies, the city is not getting the best possible deal for itself. Others have complained that the hotel could have an unfair advantage downtown.

From the beginning, the Grand Avenue project has been marked by a nontraditional public-private marriage. Besides the proposed tax breaks, government agencies are providing the land, investing in street improvements and subsidizing affordable housing in the project.

Related and its fiscal partners, meanwhile, are taking much of the financial risk -- particularly tenuous in a downtown real estate market that has shown signs of softening. They are also subject to a number of requirements, including the condition that all construction and permanent jobs in the development meet either "prevailing" or "living" wage requirements for the city.

Though each side bears a portion of the project's financial risk, each side also stands to profit if the development is a success. The city and county could reap substantial tax revenue from the project, far more than they receive now from the properties, which are either vacant or used as parking lots.

Construction of the first phase -- two high-rise residential towers, one with a five-star hotel, and 285,000 square feet of retail space -- is expected to start in October and be completed in June 2011.

The entire development would be built on nearly three square blocks on Bunker Hill, amounting to 10 acres. There would also be a 16-acre park stretching from the Los Angeles Music Center to the edge of City Hall.

cara.dimassa@latimes.com

Very exciting. Thanks for the articles.

Excellent news knowing it's a final go ahead with Grand Ave....:banana: :banana:

All we need now is the Signature tower of you know who?:dance: :dance:

City Council, Board of Supervisors approve Grand Avenue project
By Cara Mia DiMassa and Jack Leonard, Times Staff Writers
5:09 PM PST, February 13, 2007

http://www.latimes.com/media/graphic/2007-02/27900603.gif

Despite criticism about tax breaks and land giveaways, both the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors and the L.A. City Council gave final approvals today to a sprawling mini-city atop Bunker Hill that will alter L.A.'s skyline and set a course for future development in downtown and beyond.

City Council members described the vote as a turning point for Los Angeles, which for decades has been trying without success to establish a central cultural hub in downtown that would draw people from around the region.

"This is a historic day for Los Angeles. It changes the entire complexion of the center of our city," said philanthropist Eli Broad, who spearheaded the development.

Grand Avenue has emerged as perhaps L.A.'s most ambitious effort at creating dense high-rise developments that attempt to place housing next to rail lines, jobs, cultural attractions and shopping.

While some consider it a model for "smart growth" aimed at encouraging people to walk and take mass transit rather than drive, others see it as a tax giveaway that is not in the interests of local government. They also question whether the project would be the regional magnet its backers hope.

The developer, Related Cos., says the $2-billion project, designed by Frank O. Gehry, is financially unfeasible without the subsidies.

Early estimates put the tax rebates at $40 million over 20 years, but the legislative analyst's report estimated that the rebates could cost $66 million.

Related has spent months negotiating behind the scenes for the tax breaks, an increasingly common incentive used by cities to attract catalytic projects.

The city conducted an independent audit, which concluded that "the funding to support the project would be 'net new' revenues generated by the project itself, and that public participation is essential to make the project economically feasible."

The largest tax break would be in the 14% city hotel tax, a maximum of $60.5 million over 20 years.

Gehry designed the first phase of the project, the centerpiece of which is a translucent, glass-curtained tower rising 47 stories above his landmark Walt Disney Concert Hall.

His schematic designs call for two L-shaped towers, the 47-story structure and a 24-story building, at opposite ends of the block east of the concert hall.

The designs are for Phase 1 of an ambitious plan by Related, Broad and top city and county officials to transform a part of downtown known as a 9-to-5 office community into a vibrant place where people would live, shop and dine.

The design attempts to connect the new buildings to Disney Hall by installing a grid of light strings crisscrossing Grand Avenue, from the towers and pavilions to the hall. Also to that end, Gehry wants to repave Grand Avenue in a pattern of varying shades of stone, to create connections among the street, the buildings and the planned civic park nearby.

The taller of Gehry's buildings would be covered in a dramatic glass design. Preliminary models show either striped panels of alternating shaded glass or a pleated glass surface that looks like fabric folded around the building. The smaller building would have a more austere form, looking like a light-filled glass box.

Three shopping and dining pavilions would rise near the base of the two towers, mimicking the undulating lines and rough forms of Disney Hall but constructed of stone and glass rather than steel. Elaborate plantings of trees and other greenery on above-ground floors would create the effect of a hanging garden.

While the project has attracted mostly praise at recent public meetings, the request for tax breaks does have its detractors.

Some have argued that by granting the subsidies, the city is not getting the best possible deal for itself. Others have complained that the hotel could have an unfair advantage downtown.

From the beginning, the Grand Avenue project has been marked by a nontraditional public-private marriage. Besides the proposed tax breaks, government agencies are providing the land, investing in street improvements and subsidizing affordable housing in the project.

Related and its fiscal partners, meanwhile, are taking much of the financial risk -- particularly tenuous in a downtown real estate market that has shown signs of softening. They are also subject to a number of requirements, including the condition that all construction and permanent jobs in the development meet either "prevailing" or "living" wage requirements for the city.

Though each side bears a portion of the project's financial risk, each side also stands to profit if the development is a success. The city and county could reap substantial tax revenue from the project, far more than they receive now from the properties, which are either vacant or used as parking lots.

Construction of the first phase -- two high-rise residential towers, one with a five-star hotel, and 285,000 square feet of retail space -- is expected to start in October and be completed in June 2011.

The entire development would be built on nearly three square blocks on Bunker Hill, amounting to 10 acres. There would also be a 16-acre park stretching from the Los Angeles Music Center to the edge of City Hall.

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2006-04/23101846.jpg
http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2006-04/23100548.jpg

those designs are awsome so which building is the five star hotel??

Get rid of those damn County buildings!

It's going to take forever for this entire project to be completed. I just hope that Phases 2 and 3 begin construction before the completion of Phase 1 though that probably won't happen.

I really hope that Phases 2 and 3 will have a more urban layout to them as to create streetwalls and eliminate gaps in the skyline. Plus that's also a great way to enforce Gehry's towers as the main focal points. I'm hoping that the buildings in Phases 2 and 3 will not be twins. We have enough twins on Grand already!

those designs are awsome so which building is the five star hotel??



^ If I'm not mistaken it's Tower 1...

Grand Avenue project passes go
City and county OK the $2.05-billion plan to reshape downtown L.A.
By Cara Mia DiMassa and Jack Leonard, Times Staff Writers
February 14, 2007



Photo Gallery
Grand Avenue Project

Graphic
A new Bunker Hill
click to enlarge

Unveiling
click to enlarge

Grand plans
click to enlarge

Makeover
click to enlarge
Related Stories
- Grand Ave. plan's phases and financing
- Give Grand Ave. the go-ahead
- A grand vision for affordable housing
- Grand Avenue project needs help, report says
- Redevelopment agency to vote on the Grand Avenue project
- Grand Avenue project signs deal for hotel
- $2-billion downtown overhaul in the red
Despite criticism about tax breaks and land giveaways, the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors and the Los Angeles City Council gave final approvals Tuesday to a sprawling mini-city atop Bunker Hill that will alter L.A.'s skyline and set a course for future development in downtown.

Elected officials and other backers of the Grand Avenue project described the vote as a turning point for Los Angeles, whose civic leaders have tried for decades without success to establish a central cultural hub downtown that would draw people from throughout the region.

"This is a historic day for Los Angeles. It changes the entire complexion of the center of our city," said civic booster Eli Broad, who is spearheading the development.

The $2.05-billion Grand Avenue project would be the largest single development in downtown history, and would be built almost entirely on public land that would be leased for 99 years to mega-developer the Related Cos. It has few if any equals in the region, in part because of the complexity and scope of the private-public partnership.

The project also has emerged as Los Angeles' most ambitious effort to create dense, high-rise residential developments next to rail lines, offices, cultural attractions and shopping.

Though some consider the project a model for "smart growth" aimed at encouraging people to walk and use mass transit rather than drive, others see it as a tax giveaway that is not in the interests of local government. Critics complain that Related is essentially getting a double subsidy: The city and county are leasing the developer public land for a profit-making business at the same time that the city is granting breaks on future hotel and parking taxes.

They also question whether the project would be the regional magnet its backers hope.

Both the council and board voted Tuesday, in part to demonstrate their lock-step support for the project. The City Council approved the deal 13 to 0, with Councilman Ed Reyes absent. The supervisors approved the project 4 to 1, with Mike Antonovich voting against it.

By approving the deal, the governmental bodies agreed to transfer the land for the first phase of the project — a county-owned parcel — to the Grand Avenue Authority, a joint city-county agency that will in turn lease it to Related. (Later phases include land owned by the city's redevelopment agency.)

The votes green-light all three phases of Grand Avenue, which calls for at least five new high-rise buildings and 3.6 million square feet of development.

The first phase would include two translucent glass residential towers to be designed by Frank Gehry, one 49 stories and the other 24.

One tower would include a five-star Mandarin Oriental hotel. Two hundred of the 1,000 housing units included in the first phase would be reserved for low-income residents.

The municipal bodies also approved the development of a 16-acre park between the Music Center and City Hall as part of the project's first phase — one of the civic benefits that backers said was vital to the project's success.

The development marks the furthest-reaching effort by local leaders to turn downtown into a 24-hour district on par with areas of New York, Chicago, London and Paris. Downtown has long retained a reputation as a sleepy district that virtually shuts down at sunset, though a recent boom in lofts and other high-end residential development is slowly changing that.

The project will rise in an area that since the early 1960s has been at the center of plans for downtown's revival. Through the 1950s, Bunker Hill was a funky — even seedy — collection of Victorian apartment buildings and boardinghouses that inspired some Los Angeles writers. The city leveled the neighborhood to make way for an extension of the high-rise district.

Backers believe that Grand Avenue can succeed where other downtown revitalizations have failed. They said that it would rise amid such cultural landmarks as Walt Disney Concert Hall, the other venues of the Music Center and the Museum of Contemporary Art at a time when downtown is suddenly a hot destination for the first time in decades.

But even some supporters said it remained to be seen whether such a massive undertaking could change the way people think about the city center.

"Done right, redevelopment is a tool for good. Done wrong, it's horrible," county Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky said. "I really believe, let me tell you, there have been more pairs of eyes looking over this project than any I can ever remember."

Though the project has attracted mostly praise at recent public meetings, the tax breaks and other public support have their detractors.

"The desire for an iconic skyline, that's just for aesthetics," said Antonovich, a longtime opponent of the project. "That should be borne by a developer and not the taxpayers who reside in the entire county."

Christopher Sutton, an attorney for the Westin Bonaventure Hotel, which has opposed the tax breaks for the Mandarin Oriental, told the City Council and the Board of Supervisors that his client was prepared to take legal action to block the project if necessary. He called the project a "direct threat" to the Bonaventure.

The hotel issued a similar ultimatum when the convention center at L.A. Live, another mega-project being built at the south end of downtown, received a larger tax rebate in 2005. But that project has moved forward and will open its first phase this year.

Related Cos. said the Grand Avenue project was not feasible without the subsidies. The developer has spent months negotiating behind the scenes for the tax breaks, an increasingly common incentive used by cities to attract catalytic projects.

Early estimates put the tax rebates for Grand Avenue at $40 million over 20 years. But a recent report from the city's legislative analyst estimated that the rebates could cost $66 million. The largest tax break would be in the 14% city hotel tax, a maximum of $60.5 million over 20 years, the report said.

From the beginning, the Grand Avenue project has been marked by a nontraditional public-private marriage. Besides the proposed tax breaks, government agencies are providing the land, investing in street improvements and subsidizing affordable housing in the project.

Related and its fiscal partners, meanwhile, are taking much of the financial risk — particularly tenuous in a downtown real estate market that has shown signs of softening. They also are subject to a number of requirements, including the condition that all construction and permanent jobs in the development meet the city's "prevailing" or "living" wage requirements.

In addition, the agreement calls for developers to give at least 30% of jobs to workers living within five miles of the site. That clause was criticized by Antonovich, who described the city deal as unfair to workers who live elsewhere in the county.

"It's Jim Crow of the 21st century," Antonovich said. "We're denying them their constitutional rights to work in their own county?"

Despite those criticisms, several civic leaders said it was rare for the city and county to cooperate so fully as they have to move the Grand Avenue project forward.

Councilwoman Jan Perry, who serves on the joint powers authority board, called the level of cooperation unprecedented.

Though the city, county and developer each would bear a portion of the project's financial risk, each also would profit if the development was a success.

The city and county could reap substantial tax revenue from the project, far more than they receive now from the properties, which are either vacant or parking lots.

Related has written a $50-million check to the civic agencies, which represents the prepaid ground lease on the first phase and a portion of the second phase of the project.

Related has said that construction of the first phase is expected to start in October and be completed in June 2011.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cara.dimassa@latimes.com

jack.leonard@latimes.com

Man this project is going to take long as hell. I read that the entire project will not be finished until 2018; Thats 11 years from now but its worth it.

[QUOTE=klamedia;11736355]Grand Avenue project passes go
City and county OK the $2.05-billion plan to reshape downtown L.A.
By Cara Mia DiMassa and Jack Leonard, Times Staff Writers
February 14, 2007



Photo Gallery
Grand Avenue Project

Graphic
A new Bunker Hill
click to enlarge

Unveiling
click to enlarge

Grand plans
click to enlarge

Makeover
click to enlarge
Related Stories



^^ What are we supposed to click "to enlarge" :?

So, when do we see construction begin (and construction photos on this thread)?

October at the earliest.

^ The LAPD Building is under construction.

Broad stepping down as head of Grand Avenue Committee

The philanthropist says his goal to lead the project through the city and county approval phase is complete.
By Cara Mia DiMassa, Times Staff Writer
March 6, 2007


Philanthropist Eli Broad has announced that he is stepping down as chairman of the citizens group that has steered the $2.05-billion Grand Avenue project since its inception.
The Grand Avenue project, which eventually could include nine acres of retail, housing and office space as well as a 16-acre civic park around Walt Disney Concert Hall on Bunker Hill in downtown Los Angeles, received approval last month from the city and county.

At a luncheon Monday to honor those involved in the process, Broad said he had wanted to guide the project through city and county approvals before relinquishing control of the Grand Avenue Committee.

"With the development phase beginning, it makes perfect sense," he said.

Broad initially served as co-chairman of the committee and became sole chairman after developer Jim Thomas left the committee two years ago. But it has been Broad's vision that has largely guided the process over the last seven years.

Broad said he hopes to focus on other projects, including his foundation's work on education and healthcare issues. Along with supermarket magnate Ron Burkle, Broad has recently been a bidder for the Tribune Co., owner of the Los Angeles Times. "My plate is more than full," Broad said.

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa praised Broad for having "vision, persistence, tenacity — the will to move this vision along."

Replacing Broad as chairman will be Nelson Rising, a real estate developer who has served on the committee since 2005. He said the project was transformational for the city of Los Angeles. Still, he told Broad at the meeting, "I have no illusions…. No one can replace you."

The Grand Avenue project is scheduled to break ground in October. But late Friday, the owner of the Westin Bonaventure hotel filed a complaint in Los Angeles County Superior Court, asking the court to declare invalid the City Council's and county Board of Supervisors' approval last month of the Grand Avenue project. The hotel contends that the government actions violate the Bunker Hill Redevelopment Plan and provisions of state redevelopment law.

Helen Parker, a lawyer for the county, said attorneys for the agencies and companies named in the suit were reviewing the filing. She said they would have no comment on pending litigation.

... such an important project for the future of Downtown L.A.. Shocked no new news are burning up the airwaves and local newspaper!

In Los Angeles, a Gehry-Designed Awakening
The plan calls for a five-star 275-room Mandarin Oriental Hotel, luxury condominiums, restaurants run by celebrity chefs, and an upscale food market.
From The New York Times
Interior Design · April 23, 2007

LOS ANGELES — The influx of thousands of new residents has reinvigorated this city’s downtown in recent years, but most of the development has been clustered on its southern end, near the Staples Center, the sports and entertainment arena.

For more than a decade, however, Eli Broad, a billionaire and civic leader, has envisioned a vibrant focal point for the city — “a place where people from all communities want to gather,” as he put it — on the opposite edge of downtown. That section, known as Bunker Hill, is home to some of the city’s leading cultural institutions and architecturally significant structures, but they are scattered amid a hodgepodge of unsightly parking lots and drab government buildings.
Now Related Urban, the division of the Related Companies that developed the massive Time Warner Center at Columbus Circle in Manhattan, is poised to try to fulfill Mr. Broad’s ambitions. By the end of the year, the company expects to begin demolition for the first phase of a $2.05 billion mixed-use project along Grand Avenue, opposite the Walt Disney Concert Hall.
Designed by the concert hall’s architect, Frank Gehry, the Grand Avenue development will echo the Time Warner Center in some respects — the plans call for a five-star 275-room Mandarin Oriental Hotel, luxury condominiums, restaurants run by celebrity chefs and an upscale food market. But it is also expected to feature terraces and rooftop gardens to take advantage of the mild climate, the developers say.

Included in the $750 million first phase, which extends from First to Second Streets and reaches 35 feet from Grand Avenue to Olive Street, are 400 condominiums in two towers, 48 and 24 stories respectively, to be priced at around $1,000 a square foot or higher; 100 apartments devoted to families earning less than $35,000 a year; 284,000 square feet of retail space; and a 16-acre park linking the Music Center and City Hall to replace an unused swath of sloping green space near the government buildings.

As part of an agreement with community groups and public officials, Related Companies is to advance $50 million of its ground-lease rent toward the cost of the park. The agreement also requires Related and its tenants to meet specified hiring and wage goals and to set aside one-fifth of the units for low- and moderate-income residents. In exchange, officials have agreed to just under $100 million in subsidies, principally from hotel tax revenues, said William A. Witte, the president of Related California.

The City Council and County Board of Supervisors recently gave their blessing to the project, and Mr. Gehry said he expects to complete the design in June.

Rather than compete with his concert hall, with its billowing stainless-steel walls, the glassy Grand Avenue development should play a “supporting role,” Mr. Gehry said, adding that “you don’t put a bunch of iconic buildings one next to the other.” With construction costs rising, the architect said he has had to “adjust the project to that reality” by, for example, searching for less-expensive materials.

Unlike the planned Atlantic Yards development near downtown Brooklyn, which is Mr. Gehry’s other major urban project, Grand Avenue has engendered few fireworks. But some opponents maintain that subsidies are not justified for a project intended primarily for wealthy residents. They say the developer is already getting a break on the land.

... What's going on with this Mega Project???

It sure is dead as a doornail..... When is it finally going to break ground? What's the final design for Gehry's Signature Tower? Where's the cranes? Why is grand Ave still business as usual when were so close to groundbreaking? Anyone????

THE END OF THE YEAR for fucks sake. All of the info is in the post above you in Skittles colors.

In case you missed it, loco has it in big pink letters: Now Related Urban, the division of the Related Companies that developed the massive Time Warner Center at Columbus Circle in Manhattan, is poised to try to fulfill Mr. Broad’s ambitions. By the end of the year, the company expects to begin demolition for the first phase of a $2.05 billion mixed-use project along Grand Avenue, opposite the Walt Disney Concert Hall.

Learn how to be paitent. Goodness.

Ferney, get a grip! youre borderline spamming.

I heard digging to start, oct. 07, i'll stick to that.

"THE END OF THE YEAR for fucks sake."

LOL! Classic!

Ferney, get a grip! youre borderline spamming.


Am I getting Banned?
:badnews: :doh:

not yet :)

not yet :)

Speaking of banned, did Klamedia get banned yes or no? Where they hell is he? HE still has not answered my quote from the City house thread!:mad2:

no he isnt banned. maybe he is busy? i dont know?

no he isnt banned. maybe he is busy? i dont know?
what! but your the moderator! you are supposed to know everything!!!

Please, can we stay on topic!

^ Exactly all this off topic conversation is really un~neccessary.

I can't wait for phase one of Grand Ave to commence. Woohoo!

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2007-06/30447026.jpg
The design, complete with L-shaped towers, will be considered by the
Board of Supervisors this morning. (Gehry Partners, LLP)

A Definite Frank Gehry Imprint

The new proposal for Grand Avenue’s first phase has the architect’s trademark loose forms. But will infighting drive him off the project?

By Christopher Hawthorne, Times Staff Writer

Since Frank Gehry was hired nearly two years ago to design a massive mixed-use project along Grand Avenue, he has clashed repeatedly and sometimes bitterly with the developer, New York's Related Cos. Barring some sudden rapprochement, it now seems unlikely that Gehry will return for the planned second and third phases of the project. But the plan, which the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors will consider this morning, has turned a significant corner in recent weeks. The latest version suggests it will rise not only as an effective complement to Gehry's Walt Disney Concert Hall across the street but also as a dramatic architectural presence in its own right.

After bottoming out late last year, when models showed a pair of plain, rectangular office towers largely sealed off from the streets around them, the design has grown richer, more colorful and more reflective of Los Angeles and contemporary culture. The new design includes a pair of L-shaped towers playing energetically against each other — and against the rest of the downtown skyline — and framing a dense, multi-level retail plaza dotted with oak trees and other lush landscaping.

Some of the improvement is the natural result of the design gaining detail as it moves from concept toward groundbreaking this fall. But far more than previous versions, this one displays the loose, exuberant forms for which Gehry is known — and which, presumably, he was brought on to provide. Still, Gehry appears to be loosening his ties to the development. Reversing an earlier demand that his firm fully control the design of the first phase, he has agreed to let Dallas-based HKS Architects produce the final working drawings that will guide construction. His handpicked landscape architect, Laurie Olin, has left the project.

The architectural progress of the first phase, now budgeted at roughly $900 million, is a reminder that some of Gehry's best buildings, including the long-delayed Disney Hall, have been the result not just of sustained give-and-take between architect and client but also of substantial uncertainty. Far from a creative genius producing idiosyncratic forms in isolation, as he is sometimes portrayed, Gehry is an architect who thrives on drama and even brinksmanship. This project, from the beginning, has had no shortage of those elements; where they have been lacking, Gehry has sometimes worked to create them.

Although the budget for the first phase remains tight, it has loosened enough in recent months to allow the architect and his chief collaborator on the project, Craig Webb, a bit of creative wiggle room. The architects have given the taller, 48-story tower, which will contain a Mandarin Oriental Hotel along with a health club and high-end condominiums, more personality than it has shown since the earliest renderings. It is now cloaked in an undulating façade of mirrored glass that at several points pulls away dramatically from a boxy structural shell underneath.

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2007-06/30447028.jpg
The taller tower draws some inspiration from the
two mirrored glass skyscrapers at nearby Califor-
nia Plaza. (Gehry Partners, LLP)

In shaping the tower, Gehry and Webb say they are reaching back in part to the skyscraper designs of Kevin Roche, particularly Roche's U.N. Plaza, finished in 1975 on the east side of Manhattan. But the inspiration is also local. The tower design represents an architectural bridge between Disney Hall and the two mirrored-glass skyscrapers that make up Arthur Erickson's nearby California Plaza. This sense of local connection — an idiosyncratic spin on the idea of architectural context — is precisely what's missing in other Related projects, such as the Time Warner Center in Manhattan. For Gehry, the most effective kind of contextualism is surprising and energetic rather than dutiful — riffing on nearby buildings instead of copying them. That's the approach he's taken here, and it will make the tower — if built in its present form — the most compelling vertical form on the downtown skyline.

The guidelines of the Community Redevelopment Agency, however, include a recommendation against using any kind of reflective glass, which can cause glare. (Gehry ran into problems with glare at Disney Hall.) Yet strange as it might sound, given the banal reputation of the material, losing the mirrored glass would be a significant setback at this stage architecturally. At the same time, the architects have made the smaller, 24-story tower, which will hold a mixture of market-rate and subsidized apartments, more distinct in its own right, adding fixed window boxes to its facades along 1st and Olive streets. The boxes, which Gehry has used in European projects, would help give some character and life to the outside of the tower.

Perhaps the most surprising new element in new models is the decorative pattern that Gehry has added to the tower facades overlooking the plaza — the inside faces of each L. The pattern would take the lush landscaping growing out of the retail pavilions and, as a visual motif, extend it vertically into the sky. It could connect the project not only to the history of murals downtown but also to the nascent revival of ornament in the architecture and design worlds. The pattern, a floral design blown up to skyscraper scale, is something of a placeholder and needs refinement.

The idea of pulling the landscaping up into the air is topped off, literally, in the current design by live oak trees on the roofs of both towers. Though Gehry says he isn't aware of the reference, the gesture recalls the medieval Guinigi Tower, in the Italian town of Lucca, which is also crowned by spreading oak trees. With Olin having left the project, the job of refining those and other landscape elements has fallen to Nancy Goslee Power, who runs a landscape firm in Santa Monica and collaborated a decade ago with Gehry on the renovation of the Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena. Related officials insist Power's job will be to flesh out, not recast, Olin's scheme.

At the plaza level, meanwhile, the design has made significant progress. Behind the free-standing retail pavilions along Grand rises a dense multi-level collection of shops and terraces. This effectively creates a kind of urban hillside: a third architectural presence with enough height and size to compete with the towers on either side. At sidewalk level along 1st, 2nd and Olive streets, the models now show a loosely stacked collection of geometric forms. Large, brightly colored concrete panels (where other Related projects might use impressive-looking stone) alternate with expanses of glass and punched-through openings for pedestrians or cars. The retail pavilions themselves, topped with colored-glass sunshades, suggest a dense interplay between closed-off and open-air spaces, between informality and refinement.

It's still not clear which retailers will fill those pavilions. Related has been hoping that an Apple computer store will occupy the most important retail corner, at Grand Avenue and 1st Street. But Related and Gehry say Steve Jobs, Apple's chief executive, is interested in putting the same kind of sleek cube on that corner that he has used for other high-profile Apple stores. Since Gehry hates that idea, Apple may wind up in another downtown development.

The overall design has yet to solve some of its most stubborn problems. It is not as open in the direction of Broadway — and, in general, to the south and east — as it should be. The façade along Olive Street is still getting the back-of-house treatment. On top of that, the diverse mixture of forms, materials and colors that Gehry is using here as a means of disguising the project's bulk remains something of a gamble. In general, Gehry's most successful recent designs have used a limited, monochromatic material palette — steel panels for Disney Hall, titanium for the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, Spain — to temper their energetic forms.

And with the details of the commercial block still consuming so much of Related's energy, planning for the project's 16-acre park, which will run downhill from the Music Center to City Hall, continues to lag. A team headed by Mark Rios, who has quietly taken the lead on the park, is expected to unveil a preliminary design this fall.

There are those in this city who lament that we've pinned too many of our collective hopes on the Grand Avenue development. Certainly it would be a mistake to expect that when it's built it will feel anything like the beating heart of Los Angeles, or, to borrow Eli Broad's phrase, like our Champs-Élysées. But the project has proven to be a fascinating measuring stick for the emerging public-private partnership model of urban development. It has provided a remarkable late-career test for the 78-year-old Gehry, who understands that it will help shape his legacy — particularly as an architect so closely associated with Los Angeles — but who has grown accustomed to generous budgets and deferential clients.

And it would be a mistake to reject outright the idea that a commercial plaza thick with pricey shops can tell us something meaningful about the future of shared space in this city. Los Angeles is familiar with the notion of playing out public life in the private realm: Look at Universal CityWalk, or the Grove. In that sense, compared with those retail projects or the aloof California Plaza, the Grand Avenue project represents at least a tentative step by commercial forces back in the direction of substantial engagement with cities and city-making. Gehry and Related deserve credit for gamely challenging the notion that high-end retail spaces have to embrace either an old-fashioned or a numbingly sleek form of urbanism.

The most important question going forward is how Related officials will judge the architecture of the first phase. They may view it as an encouraging sign of what real architecture can bring to a development, in buzz and urban character as well as in sales. But it's also possible that they'll see their tumultuous experience with Gehry primarily as a cautionary tale — a bullet dodged — and move forward convinced that the risks they have taken so far aren't worth repeating.

Cool!

Board OKs Grand Design

Work could begin in fall

BY TROY ANDERSON, Staff Writer
LA Daily News, 06/19/2007

Anticipating a futuristic 48-story tower near the Walt Disney Concert Hall, Los Angeles County supervisors voted 4-1 Tuesday to approve schematic design drawings for the first phase of the $2 billion Grand Avenue project. Bill Witte, president of The Related Cos. of California, said the designs call for the tower to be designed by architect Frank Gehry and feature reflective, undulating glass. They also call for a second, 25-story tower with a more "sober, traditional design."

With approval of the drawings, construction on the project designed to transform the downtown skyline -- and create a vibrant heart for the city with entertainment venues, restaurants, a hotel and a 16-acre park -- is expected to begin in October.

"As you look at the model, you can see something that is very dynamic," Supervisor Gloria Molina said. "There is no other area in downtown like this."

Supporters of the project say it will revitalize downtown with 3.6 million square feet of development, including more than 2,000 condominiums and retail stores. But Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich has repeatedly voted against the project, estimating $176 million in tax breaks and subsidies will be needed.

Tuesday, Antonovich questioned Witte about clashes between the architect and developer over the designs, why no bookstore or supermarket had signed up to lease space, whether potential glare from the buildings had been addressed and how officials will address concerns by court officials over the lack of parking. Witte said he's never worked on a project where architects didn't clash with developers. "Not only has it not hindered us, but the end product is probably much better because of the back and forth," Witte said.

It's still too early in the process for major retailers like bookstores and grocery stores to sign letters of intent to lease space, he added. And he said the firm that conducted a glare study on Disney Hall is studying the best materials to use on the towers to reduce reflections from the sun.

Antonovich said downtown parking for court workers and jurors was not enough. This could result, he said, in jurors having to park farther away and causing trial delays. "We are talking about people who are not necessarily active members at the neighborhood gym, and considering the type of geography this facility is located on in the hills, it's not convenient for some of the older people," he said.

He also raised concerns that court officials have no plans to replace the Stanley Mosk Courthouse, located between the proposed 16-acre park and the county Hall of Administration. Chief Executive Officer David Janssen said replacing the courthouse would cost $700 million to $800 million, but it's not on a state priority list.

"The cost to replace the courthouse and county hall will exceed $1 billion," Antonovich said.

Janssen said the county has set aside $100 million to replace the county hall. A location for the new county hall could be the existing Court of Flags off Hill Street. The supervisors have until next summer to decide whether to replace the hall, which was damaged in the Northridge Earthquake.

yippy!

... yes we got the green light!!! :applause:

Bring in the cranes and every machinery to get the job done.:nocrook:

Amtonobiatch needs to back off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bleep:

I just hope that 48 story Gehry designed skyscraper doesn't overwhelm the Disney Concert Hall which has become a world class tourist attraction in it's own right.

The parking garage on the site of Phase 1 will be removed.

The parking garage on the site of Phase 1 will be removed.

Yes, i did notice the empty parking garage last weekend>>>:banana:

The parking garage on the site of Phase 1 will be removed.

Any realistic timetable set for any progress?

I thought that construction was supposed to start in the Fall.

October. Construction will start in October.

October. Construction will start in October.

HAPPY 40,000 POSTS Los Angeles !!!
:dance:
and of course many more, and YES
Threehundred:rock: , our S.S.C. friend:righton: ,
I hope this project gets a " Go " , also, it looks good for L.A.
Congrats again:banana: :cheer: :pepper:

I just realize that I'm right next door to the Grand Ave Mega Project. I will have daily visuals of the groundbreaking ceremony and the construction of Gehry's Signature Tower. Can't wait until October to get these puppies up up and away!!!!!!!

We're relying on you for good pictures! I wish I could see it rise.

We're relying on you for good pictures! I wish I could see it rise.

I do need a better quality camera for maximum resolution. To bring weekly updates of Grand Ave progress.....

We need to pitch in money for Ferney to get a camera.

Or he can buy his own.

Ferney, do you have any money?

APPROVAL OF PHASE I SCHEMATIC DESIGN

July 27, 2007

The Schematic Design package submitted by The Related Companies and their architect, Gehry Partners, was approved by the Los Angeles Grand Avenue Authority, the Community Redevelopment Agency, and the County Board of Supervisors in mid-June. These approvals allow the project to advance into the Design Development phase, which should be completed in the fall of 2007.

Phase I includes the development of Parcel Q, which is directly across Grand Avenue from the Walt Disney Concert Hall. The scope of development on this site includes: 500 units of housing (100 of which are affordable housing), a 275-room Mandarin Oriental Hotel, and 285,000 square feet of retail space. Over 1500 parking spaces will be located below ground. Retail uses are expected to include an urban grocery, a health club, a large book and music store, seven to eight restaurants, and other uses.

Schematic Design for the Civic Park, which is also part of Phase I, is underway and is expected to be completed in the fall of 2007. The Civic Park stretches from Grand Avenue, at the top of Bunker Hill, to Spring Street at the bottom of the Hill. The scope of work for the park includes extending the existing park area to City Hall and improving and upgrading the existing sections of park to meet a variety of needs of downtown residents, office workers, and tourists.

http://www.grandavenuecommittee.org/images/ga_w_app_ph1_01.jpg http://www.grandavenuecommittee.org/images/ga_w_app_ph1_03.jpg http://www.grandavenuecommittee.org/images/ga_w_app_ph1_02.jpg

GRAND AVENUE PROJECT APPROVALS

July 27, 2007

In a series of board meetings that stretched from November 20, 2006 through March 5, 2007, a significant set of approvals were granted to the Grand Avenue Project. The boards that took action on the project included: the Los Angeles Grand Avenue Authority, the Community Redevelopment Agency of the City of Los Angeles, the Los Angeles City Council, and the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors.

The most significant actions taken by these boards included certification of the Final Environmental Impact Report approval of the Disposition and Development Agreement, approval of Phase 1 Ground Leases, and approval of various Conveyance and Funding Agreements. Collectively, these approvals signify the agreement of all parties on the basic business terms of the project, the scope of work, and the schedule of performance.

The Developer has agreed to start construction of Phase I by October 1, 2007. Phase I will include the development of Parcel Q and the creation of a newly extended and revitalized Civic Park. Parcel Q is the parcel of land directly across Grand Avenue from the Walt Disney Concert Hall. The estimated completion date of Phase I is August 2011, although some parts of the project may be completed and operating as early as August 2010.

^^ It's too bad those models have been ruined by the green mold growing randomly on them.

Love it! The city is attempting to pull itself together more cohesively. This is an amazing time to be in LA!

^^ It's too bad those models have been ruined by the green mold growing randomly on them.

its supposed to be trees LOL

its supposed to be trees LOL

I have never seen trees sprouting horizontally off of the side of a building.

use your imagination WTF

I have never seen trees sprouting horizontally off of the side of a building.

Now you have. Consider yourself 'visually devirginized.'

I have never seen trees sprouting horizontally off of the side of a building.


I'm getting the sense that Lan420 is a smoker...:hilarious

As much as i'm glad this project is going to happen, for me this "signiture tower" is going to take some getting used to, the plaza area looks like the set for the next planet of the apes movie, or the aftermath of a nuclear blast.

...at least it's not a barren concrete wastelend, like the hardscape oceans fronting so many postmodern glass office gulags.

Will they keep the COURT OF FLAGS in the new Park Plaza??

It befits the area.......perhaps this entire district will (continue)turn into an architectual wonderland......Disney Hall, Death Star, the new Gehry building and the wonderful City Hall.

It befits the area.......perhaps this entire district will (continue)turn into an architectual wonderland......Disney Hall, Death Star, the new Gehry building and the wonderful City Hall.

They can build whatever they like, but nothing will ever trump City Hall in my eyes. That building is soooo beautiful. Just need to eliminate that big parking lot in front of it.

What's the Death Star again?:banana:

^ This thing:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1080/758262356_5d147d3779_o.jpg

Is that Cal-Trans?

...getting this thread back on track!

In less than 2 months, the groundbreaking ceremony for phase 1 will commence. I am soooooooooooooo there with my cheapo camera for this magnificent project near Bunker Hill. luckily I'm right next door and will provide you guys with tons of pix of progress.... surely can't wait!!!!!!

:dance: :dance:

Anyone planning on coming to groundbreaking ceremony, just curious?

Is that Cal-Trans?

Yep.

If you've never seen it in person, then you should. It's gigantic.

cal trans is a beautiful building. very green too. did you know that the elevators only stop on every other floor? supposedly to encourage walking. :lol: must be a lot of fatasses sweating inside. :lol:

I just drove by the Cal Trans building today. I think it is hideous. I can't believe they built that monstrosity and kept a straight face.

cal trans is a beautiful building. very green too. did you know that the elevators only stop on every other floor? supposedly to encourage walking. :lol: must be a lot of fatasses sweating inside. :lol:

^^
:lol:

Trust me, I'm sure there are more fatasses sweating inside your local DMV office. Have you seen how slow some of those people work? Take away that bulletproof glass they're hiding behind and trust me they'll get to your vehicle registration pronto!! :ohno:

By the way, Cal-Trans is truly a magnificent beauty. And it irks me everytime it gets criticized for being too ugly or uninviting. For crying out loud it's the freakin' "DEATHSTAR"! It's supposed to be that way. How else would Darth Vader want it? Nice and cute for a bunch of fluffy Ewoks? Hell nooo right?!!! :lol:

less than a month to go........!

less than a month to go........!


... counting the days for the groundbreaking ceremony, I'm so there!!!!

Does anyone have any info on the Ceremony, like time exact location and who's going to be there???

I just drove by the Cal Trans building today. I think it is hideous. I can't believe they built that monstrosity and kept a straight face.

you are crazy! :nuts: this is absolutely gorgeous (sp?) building! It won many architectural awards...Thom Mayne is the man! :banana: And also, this building is very energy efficient.

Have another look. Closely this time.

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2712948960047325925vYLbRZ

People..People... stop getting off topic already!!!

This thread os to discuss Grand Ave only... can we get back on topic before LASF starts to give out warnings!!!!

.....

Ferney, I'm not going to say anything as I just had Cold Stone and am in a pretty good mood. No smart remarks for you.

My only complaint is that it doesn't seem too pedistrian friendly. Mabye it's because of Gehry's use of blocks but I'm guessing that the bottom will liven up a lot upon completion.

.....

Ferney, I'm not going to say anything as I just had Cold Stone and am in a pretty good mood. No smart remarks for you.



^ Woohoo! So ice cream and sex keeps you happy!!!! :banana:

Council Planning Committee Approves Grand Ave Tracts

I'm almost to the point where I'm not going to mention the Grand Avenue Project until there's a groundbreaking date to report, but I thought it worth noting the Times' report that the City Council's Planning Committee approved tract maps for the project and rejected the Bonaventure's appeal (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-grand12sep12,1,233355.story).

"Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa has been trying to strike a deal with Bonaventure owner Peter Zen that would head off a time-consuming legal battle over the project. Zen issued a similar legal threat two years ago when the city offered tax breaks to L.A. Live, another hotel mega-project being built near Staples Center.

In that case, Villaraigosa reached an agreement that allowed Zen to convert some of his hotel rooms into condominiums if vacancy rates reached a certain threshold."

It sounds like Peter Zen may have been taking lessons from Conquest (http://blogdowntown.com/blog/2849) (or perhaps the other way around?). In less pleasant news, groundbreaking has been pushed back to December.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: blogdowntown (http://www.blogdowntown.com/blog/2863)

I know I'm probably thinking too ahead here, but anyone have any input for phase 2 and 3, or if It will ever be done.

My patience is running out. I know it'll take 3 years for this thing to be completed, but I'll feel A LOT better once this thing is officially underway.

My patience is running out. I know it'll take 3 years for this thing to be completed, but I'll feel A LOT better once this thing is officially underway.

Will this be LA's similar version of Millenium Park??

Will this be LA's similar version of Millenium Park??

Some people are comparing it to even the Champs Elysees or Central Park. :lol: Which shouldn't be compared to those 2 IMHO, as Grand Avenue Park should be compared to well... Grand Avenue Park. It's nothing like anything else.

I like this rendering...

http://www.grandavenuecommittee.org/images/contact_mainimg.jpg

Is there a final plan for the Grand ave. park, or is it still in the planning stage, i have not seen anything recent on it.??

Some people are comparing it to even the Champs Elysees or Central Park. :lol: Which shouldn't be compared to those 2 IMHO, as Grand Avenue Park should be compared to wel... Grand Avenue Park. It's nothing like anything else.

I like this rendering...

http://www.grandavenuecommittee.org/images/contact_mainimg.jpg

If I'm not mistaken, That picture was first shown in an LA Times article around 7 years ago or so. It is because of that very picture that I became interested/involved in urban issues!

Some people are comparing it to even the Champs Elysees or Central Park. :lol: Which shouldn't be compared to those 2 IMHO, as Grand Avenue Park should be compared to well... Grand Avenue Park. It's nothing like anything else.

I like this rendering...

http://www.grandavenuecommittee.org/images/contact_mainimg.jpg

Not a visual comparison, but a tourist spot that a couple visiting LA will stop by and stroll alomg the paths, take pics of themselves and city hall behind them!! and show there friends back in Ohio there wonderfull time in LA with a beutiful monument behind them in pics!! or a Frank Gehry designed Scraper!!
In that kind of way????!!!!

Not a visual comparison, but a tourist spot that a couple visiting LA will stop by and stroll alomg the paths, take pics of themselves and city hall behind them!! and show there friends back in Ohio there wonderfull time in LA with a beutiful monument behind them in pics!! or a Frank Gehry designed Scraper!!
In that kind of way????!!!!

Yup, in that way. It's pretty much a brand new reason to explore and visit the area around City Hall. I can't wait for the next 2 phases to go through.

Do we know when the park will be completed?

Do we know when the park will be completed?

I had emailed Susanne Kerenyi on the Grand Avenue Committee and she gave me a date of July of 2011. We still have 4 more years to go, but at least it'll be at the turn of the decade.

For some reason I thought this was the first part of the project to be completed... or is it?

Here's some good news (sorta'):

Grand Avenue project EIR, zone changes win approval
BY RICK ORLOV, Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 09/19/2007 09:44:37 PM PDT


Clearing the final hurdle for construction to start, the Los Angeles City Council on Wednesday routinely approved an environmental report and zone changes for the $2.5 billion Grand Avenue redevelopment project.

"As long as I've been in Los Angeles, people have been talking about how there is no heart to downtown, no center," said Councilwoman Jan Perry, who represents the area where the project is to be built.

"This will change all that. This will be a redefinition of downtown and I want us to do it right."

Perry said the project is expected to create thousands of well-paying jobs.

"There was a time when we had people in these jobs who were able to afford to live in Los Angeles," Perry said. "That's what we want to create again. And I am also hopeful about bringing in a mix of housing where we have people of all different incomes living here."

Plans call for the Frank Gehry-designed project on the site across from the Walt Disney Concert Hall to become a massive commercial-residential complex that includes a four-star hotel.

The city is contributing to the project by waiving $60.5 million in future hotel-bed taxes as well as kicking in $5.5 million in parking taxes. The city's Community Redevelopment Agency has pledged $24 million and the county is contributing $4.6 million.
The city and county also will provide other investments totaling $29 million, including $10 million for affordable housing, $12 million for on-site public improvements, $5 million for off-site improvements and $2 million for street improvements.

A 16-acre park is planned between City Hall and Grand Avenue as part of the project, which also includes more than 2,600 residential units.

Plans also call for a 50-story glass tower that would contain the hotel, 250 condominiums, a rooftop pool, a bar and a spa. Also included are plans for open-terraced restaurants and a garden-like atmosphere featuring outdoor art.

The project was first conceived by billionaire Eli Broad, who wanted to see a Los Angeles version of New York's Central Park.

In 2003, the city and county created a joint-powers authority to develop the final plans, which have doubled in cost since the original estimates. The only major objection to the project has been from the owners of the Bonaventure Hotel, who have argued that the bed-tax waiver gives the proposed hotel a competitive advantage.

Perry said the next step for the project will be to prepare final plans. Work is scheduled to begin on the site later this year.

rick.orlov@dailynews.com

(213) 978-0390


I don't like that last part..."the next step for the project will be to prepare final plans."?!?!?! wtf? it's supposed to start construction by the end of the year and there still aren't final plans? What are they waiting for?

The project was first conceived by billionaire Eli Broad, who wanted to see a Los Angeles version of New York's Central Park.


As much as I respect Eli's devotion to this city, a 16 acre park does not compare to an 800 acre one. Please don't say this, and I still say that the county structures on either side should be razed and rebuilt as towers that would frame City Hall from the vantage point of the fountain at the Music Center. God, I wish I were king.:cheers:

The project was first conceived by billionaire Eli Broad, who wanted to see a Los Angeles version of New York's Central Park.


As much as I respect Eli's devotion to this city, a 16 acre park does not compare to an 800 acre one. Please don't say this, and I still say that the county structures on either side should be razed and rebuilt as towers that would frame City Hall from the vantage point of the fountain at the music center. Towers erected on Hill at the corners of Temple and Tom Bradley would frame the City Hall as well as free up space and provide unobstructed sight lines from my proposed fountain/skating rink of the Gehry project, The Disney and the rest of the Music Center as well as the Cathedral. God, I wish I were king.:cheers:

Final plans, IE working drawings, or actual construction drawings, usually site and excavation plans, finished drawings for the towers will still be going on after excavation has begun.

As much as I respect Eli's devotion to this city, a 16 acre park does not compare to an 800 acre one. :

What 800 acre park are you talking about?

Please don't say this, and I still say that the county structures on either side should be razed and rebuilt as towers that would frame City Hall from the vantage point of the fountain at the music center.

I'd much rather have more park space instead.

What 800 acre park are you talking about?

I'd much rather have more park space instead.

The county buildings erected as vertical structures would free up more space and be out of the way as I've explained. Those buildings represent office space that is sorely needed as the county is growing, I was just suggesting standing the structures on end and getting them out of the way. Twin 40 story towers, clad in white and similar in design with City Hall, or of a classic art deco feel instead, would be a wonderful frame for City Hall as seen from the fountain plaza at The Music Center. The 800 acre park is NY's Central, the one we are comparing to here when mentioning this project. Compare Griffith to Central instead, and develop Griffith. :)

The county buildings erected as vertical structures would free up more space and be out of the way as I've explained. Those buildings represent office space that is sorely needed as the county is growing, I was just suggesting standing the structures on end and getting them out of the way. Twin 40 story towers, clad in white and similar in design with City Hall, or of a classic art deco feel instead, would be a wonderful frame for City Hall as seen from the fountain plaza at The Music Center. The 800 acre park is NY's Central, the one we are comparing to here when mentioning this project. Compare Griffith to Central instead, and develop Griffith. :)

I could go for that, twin structures of a classic art deco design, with setbacks and the feel of Rockafeller center, (maybe one slightly shorter than the other, the taller one on the 101 freeway side) to frame the City hall, with more park space, the current buildings are just wrong for the setting.!!!

The county buildings erected as vertical structures would free up more space and be out of the way as I've explained. Those buildings represent office space that is sorely needed as the county is growing, I was just suggesting standing the structures on end and getting them out of the way. Twin 40 story towers, clad in white and similar in design with City Hall, or of a classic art deco feel instead, would be a wonderful frame for City Hall as seen from the fountain plaza at The Music Center. The 800 acre park is NY's Central, the one we are comparing to here when mentioning this project. Compare Griffith to Central instead, and develop Griffith. :)

Griffith IS our Central Park and much better than NYC's park in its preservation of greenspace aspect. If you want a carbon copy of NYC Central Park then you're getting it with this Grand Ave park but get your smelly fingers off of Griffith Park and leave them off! It's a magnificent park just the way it is!

thank you Klamedia. Enjoy our city. we dont need shit from other places.

thank you Klamedia. Enjoy our city. we dont need shit from other places.

That shit from other places you speak of just may be the muddy runoff from the higher elevations of an undeveloped Griffith Park. I'm more a Los Angeles fan than you are and I haven't lived there since '75! Develop the damn park, before it runs away from you. For it's own good.

Griffith IS our Central Park and much better than NYC's park in its preservation of greenspace aspect. If you want a carbon copy of NYC Central Park then you're getting it with this Grand Ave park but get your smelly fingers off of Griffith Park and leave them off! It's a magnificent park just the way it is!

I never made the comparison, that little gem belongs to the developers, and is an embarrasment for others in the country to laugh at! 16 acres compared to, what? 879 acres? Greenspace? What greenspace? That 4000 acre icon needs water on a consistent day to day basis. It's o.k., I suppose, to believe in a natural approach to natural settings. That same mindset almost took Yellowstone National away from our immediate future generations and Griffith was NEVER intended to be a nature preserve! It was meant, by the owner, to be a park setting for the people of the city to USE and enjoy! If you're going to think like a 'naturalist', then Griffith Park will never be more than it is right now, and that's not enough for a city of this size and scope. Keep your smelly fingers where they belong, you know where, and let people with vision (if they're out there) to properly take care of this property! People in the city floor don't need brown hills to look up at, they need a place to go and do more than just hike.:)

And though I'm in a suburb of Las Vegas, you will now consider me an Angeleno for all intents and purposes! I defend L. A. far too much on other national forums to be made light of by the likes of Klamedia and Sportsfan.:cheers:

Back to your padded cell, this is no place for overt sensitivity....especially when it comes to LA. Being on the LA forum you must be hardened to the blows of much lesser places trying to jab at you. Cities w/ not even half of LA's GDP or much less its sustained urban core density or nowhere near the population of its CSA or MSA try to talk shit about our city. Non-Alpha cities w/ nowhere near languages spoken #'s or ethnic diversity try to criticize LA. Cities that have nowhere near the transit ridership even in relationship to its population try to jab LA as a car capital. So I think we should move beyond the argument of I love LA more than you.......all of us who have been on this forum for any amount of time must love a city that is so ubiquitously hated, envied and feared. Let's begin a real dialogue on and about Griffith Park in relationship to the new Grand Ave project, not just comparing dick sizes.

For all your ramblings, you do make valid points. Griffith Park is LA's Central Park. But the Grand Ave park will be downtown Central Park if developed right.

But in regards to the county buildings: I would raze them and build Cal Plaza 3. 60 stories seems like it would be enough.

I don't understand how or why comparisons of Griffith park, and Central park are being made when there is nothing in common between the two, Esp. on this thread.

Lets TRY to stay on the subject at hand,

But in regards to the county buildings: I would raze them and build Cal Plaza 3. 60 stories seems like it would be enough.
The Cal Plaza site is not close enough to the civic center, and with the LA mentality of not walking, who would want to go from 4th and Olive to the City Hall? The idea of building twin 40 story towers sounds more realistic.

whoa..I can't believe I overlooked this:

Grand Avenue Gets Retail Approvals

News Brief

The Grand Avenue project took another significant step forward last week when the City Council approved entitlements and conditional use permits for the residential, retail and restaurant portions of the massive $2 billion development by Related Cos. In approving the recommendations of the city's Planning Department, officials gave the okay for the sale of alcohol at as many as 35 establishments throughout more than 449,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space. Included in the measure was the denial of an appeal of the project by the owner of the Bonaventure Hotel.:banana: The hotel's attorney has threatened legal action.

page 2, 9/24/2007

Back to your padded cell, this is no place for overt sensitivity....especially when it comes to LA.

Sorry, just different stepping off the other forum onto this one, only to be referred to as an 'outsider'! Now you get a sense of what it's like to be there!:)

The county buildings erected as vertical structures would free up more space and be out of the way as I've explained. Those buildings represent office space that is sorely needed as the county is growing, I was just suggesting standing the structures on end and getting them out of the way. Twin 40 story towers, clad in white and similar in design with City Hall, or of a classic art deco feel instead, would be a wonderful frame for City Hall as seen from the fountain plaza at The Music Center. The 800 acre park is NY's Central, the one we are comparing to here when mentioning this project. Compare Griffith to Central instead, and develop Griffith. :)

Has there been any talk of taking down the county buildings? I assume you guys are talking about these:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff6/LarsCarlson/grandave.jpg

and the ones across the park? Or other county buildings?

I don't see how they plan on making this park successful with those concrete blocks in the way.

whoa..I can't believe I overlooked this:

Grand Avenue Gets Retail Approvals

News Brief

The Grand Avenue project took another significant step forward last week when the City Council approved entitlements and conditional use permits for the residential, retail and restaurant portions of the massive $2 billion development by Related Cos. In approving the recommendations of the city's Planning Department, officials gave the okay for the sale of alcohol at as many as 35 establishments throughout more than 449,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space. Included in the measure was the denial of an appeal of the project by the owner of the Bonaventure Hotel.:banana: The hotel's attorney has threatened legal action.

page 2, 9/24/2007

Grand Ave. Park sounds like a straight up party. :cheers: :booze: :cheers2: :dj: This is only making the anticipation worse... I wonder who's gonna be selling out of there? Upscale shops? Unique shops? Whatever it is, it's a good thing. It's gotta be nice to be able to work downtown and then hit up a nice afterwork bar/restaurant/whatever to wait for the traffic to die down...

And the owner of the Bonaventure (forgot his name) needs to just fuck off.

Has there been any talk of taking down the county buildings? I assume you guys are talking about these:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff6/LarsCarlson/grandave.jpg

and the ones across the park? Or other county buildings?

I don't see how they plan on making this park successful with those concrete blocks in the way.

God bless alcohol at the Grand project. :cheers: The County Admin Hall and The County Courthouse should be erected upright on Hill at either corner, to get them out of the way and improve sight lines to other structures. I've had this idea ever since this project appeared on the front page of the L.A. times back in the late 90's?

yea but has there been any official word on it? It seems like they're pretty close to starting construction on this thing. You'd think if they were going to tear down the county buildings and put up some scrapers so that the park flows with the space around it, they'd have announced it by now...

... I just need to know the exact day of the Groundbreaking ceremony. I might have to take an extended lunch just for the occassion.

I vaguely remember hearing that the county workers could be put into towers in Phase 3. The proposed office tower could be expanded. It says 12-20 floors but why not make it 30-40 floors?

http://grandavenuecommittee.com/images/parcels_large.gif

Since final design hasn't been chosen, I wonder what it'll look like?
Here are some samples of some of the entry submissions when they had a competition (i know they're old but i just thought it'd be interesting to see them again):

Submitted by Mia Lehrer+Associates; David Fletcher (lead designer), Jae Uck Ahn, Christopher Alexander, Mia Lehrer & Alexander Robinson
http://www.learcenter.org/images/Lehrer5.gif

http://www.learcenter.org/images/Lehrer3.jpg

http://www.learcenter.org/images/Lehrer4.jpg

Submitted by Charissa Chan, Jacqueline Nguyen, Alondra Rodriguez & Ruby Sanchez, Cal Poly Pomona Architecture
http://www.learcenter.org/images/chan3.jpg

http://www.learcenter.org/images/chan.jpg

http://www.learcenter.org/images/chan2.jpg

Submitted by Jennifer Birkeland, Corey Fox, Lauren McCullough, Daniel Miller & Samantha Moran
http://www.learcenter.org/images/Birkeland.gif

http://www.learcenter.org/images/Birkeland2.jpg

Submitted by Andrew Rivlin & Ben Warsinske, Cal Poly Pomona
http://www.learcenter.org/images/rivlin2.gif

Submitted by Angie Jun, Michelle Licea, David Mabs & Sonia Noriega
http://www.learcenter.org/images/jun.gif

Submitted by Derek Allen, Beige Berryman, Virginia Gomez, Todd Hutchins, Steven Mar & L. Lee Wong
http://www.learcenter.org/images/GrandEsplanade.jpg

Submitted by WET Design, Los Angeles
http://www.learcenter.org/images/Disabatino2.jpg

http://www.learcenter.org/images/Disabatino.jpg

there's a lot more here:
http://www.learcenter.org/html/projects/?cm=grand/gallery

From SSP:

All in all, there isn't too much in the way of news, except that the groundbreaking is confirmed to occur by December 1st.

The panel-style discussion was an interesting format. An Equinox Gym was mentioned (I don't believe I had heard that info before), a 40,000 sq. ft. supermarket was mentioned, restaurant space, Mandarin Oriental confirmed...

No updated renderings, and the only mention of subsequent phases is that the retail for Phase Two (Grand Avenue and 2nd Street, south of the Disney Hall on the open county-owned lots) will meet the street at Grand. They have not hired an architect yet nor for Phase Three.

Jan Perry was very adamant in her opposition to the county-owned buildings on the park block. That was encouraging, but she also mentioned the lack of funding. Apparently for Phase Three, the county has until August of 2008 to let the joint powers authority know of its plans to build or not build a replacement office building on 1st/Olive.

Architecture critic Christopher Hawthorne kind of gave a rehash of his previous editorials in support of and criticizing certain aspects of the design, including mentioning the apparent lack of pedestrian connections to Second Street and Olive Street.

Bill Witte of Related Cos. affirmed his support for making the project connect as much as possible given the site constraints, parking requirements, etc.

One interesting piece of info is that the park designs are still not complete but are "well on their way" (according to Bill Witte) to being complete. Who knows what that means...

That proposal by WET Design looks niicccceeee (although it seems kind of gimmicky). Since a final design hasn't been confirmed yet, I wonder if it's too late to contact them about installing those "water torches" with the park? I think they'd look great with Gehry's designs in the park.

interesting how some designs have the county buildings in there and some don't.

From the looks of things... it looks like plans for the park are far from being finalized.

My question is, how is this possible when groundbreaking is just around the corner? Park is part of a future phase? Which phase?

Unless they are going to raze those two structures, they are part of the overall design. Which is unfortunate, because of their age and extreme horizontal footprint. Standing them up was just a suggestion, but there's no way they are going to do that now. If they do raze them, where are all the county people going to end up? Into the new Gehry?

Sheesh! Don't you read??

Jan Perry was very adamant in her opposition to the county-owned buildings on the park block. That was encouraging, but she also mentioned the lack of funding. Apparently for Phase Three, the county has until August of 2008 to let the joint powers authority know of its plans to build or not build a replacement office building on 1st/Olive.

Sheesh! Don't you read??

Jan Perry was very adamant in her opposition to the county-owned buildings on the park block. That was encouraging, but she also mentioned the lack of funding. Apparently for Phase Three, the county has until August of 2008 to let the joint powers authority know of its plans to build or not build a replacement office building on 1st/Olive.

1st and olive? I wonder if they have new plans of the project becuase the ones they've release only show housing (phase1) and retail (phase 2)

http://grandavenuecommittee.com/images/parcels_large.gif

maybe she meant 1st and hill

Looks like they had this model out at the Grand Avenue Festival this past weekend...did anyone here go?

"Grand Avenue Festival 2007: Related Companies' Grand Avenue Plan mock-up"
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1171/1466071909_34b71ae716_b.jpg
sagehen_93

I like this small Urban Park they created. I'd be cool if more of this was put in downtown....Mobile vendors could service these small urban parks. I think it would really work.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1016/1466917416_e6de631994_b.jpg

I would pick those two county buildings up and just toss them across the room! :)

go ahead, toss them. You can pay aout a billion dollars to replace them and I am sure the county would be thrilled.

Also, looking at the new gehry towers--they all have trees on top. Where oh where does the helicopter land?

IF it is true that the helipad rule does not apply, why oh why don't they build a proper spire on any of these towers like EVERY other city in the world?

Cuz LA does what it wants!

December 1st is just one week away. This BETTER be it.

I thought it was supposed to be this fall, now December 1st is the official groundbreaking?

Yeah it's supposed to be the groundbreaking... don't get to hyped up though.

The Grand Ave Project will not be an out-of-the-box success imo. It will take years of cultivation to get this thing really where it should be, it will be no LA Live or H&H at least right away. Anyway, I heard something about groundbreaking in the beginning of next year.

From SSP:

Hey, guys, I just got a call from the VP of Marketing & PR at Related -- turns out that site abatement work only is going to start December 3. So don't get your hopes up about seeing that tinker-toy parking structure getting torn down until the official groundbreaking ceremony on February 7.

I wrote about it here (http://www.angelenic.com/downtown-general/grand-avenue-project-work-begins-december-3/).

They're serious about the work being done on-site starting in December though. Cars can't park there after Sunday.

From angelenic:

Though demolition won’t occur until February 7th’s groundbreaking event, today marks a historic point in the evolution of Downtown Los Angeles. The tinker-toy parking structure on the site of the Grand Avenue Project “The Grand” is now closed to vehicles, and a green construction fence surrounds the lot.

Site activities over the next two months will include soil sampling, demolition engineering, geological testing and construction coordination. Jurors, government employees and tourists should take the subway to the Civic Center metro station or be prepared to research alternative parking options beforehand.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2117/2085423896_7b776a652c.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2095/2085412614_78a7d7e0b1.jpg?v=0

IT BEGINS....

The status of this project needs to be changed to "Prep".

God bless the little green construction fences of L. A. :)

The title of this thread needs to be changed to The Grand (Phase 1) | 48 fl | 25 fl | Prep in order to reflect the new name given to the project.

I actually liked the name Grand Avenue. I wonder why there was a name change...

^ I don't think "Grand Avenue" was the offical name, or if it even had an official name up until this point.

To be honest, I liked referring to it as the "Grand Avenue project". This project without a clear name would've given it a more civic-oriented, organic flair, whereas now it is clearly a private development.

^ I don't think "Grand Avenue" was the offical name, or if it even had an official name up until this point.

To be honest, I liked referring to it as the "Grand Avenue project". This project without a clear name would've given it a more civic-oriented, organic flair, whereas now it is clearly a private development.

Yeah. :-/ Keeping the project nameless and letting the citizens christen it a name would've given the project a bit more of a homegrown flair, as you said. But as long as the project delivers what its being created for, then I have no complaints.

so, this will be done in, say, 10 years?

so, this will be done in, say, 10 years?


I think that may be the amount of time needed for the project's cultural value to truely florish and for the rest of the already completed projects (WDCH, LAUSD #9) to contribute to The Grand.

so, this will be done in, say, 10 years?

Yeah, pretty much.

As part of this project, there should be a new mall stretching from the Music Centre to the City Hall. Do we have to refer green spaces leading to government buildings as malls?

malls ^^......?

^ That's not the kind of mall he was referring to.

malls ^^......?

A pefect example of what he's talking about is The Mall in Washington DC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Mall

ooo thanks ^^ lol I did not kow that

When you look at the entire project from that context, the cultural value of the entire project takes on an completely new perspective for L.A. The cultural importance of this project to our city will only grow even long after we're gone - this project is literally something for the history books... at least in our history books.

Spot on! But for the first 10 years it will have to combat the overexpectations of novices who believe that from the day it opens it should be a big hit, sort of like The Grove. It's one of the problems with LA being merely at best an adolescent city that grew up way too fast, its shortsightedness. I mean I've heard posters on this board question whether MOCA is successful and who never go to or even heard of the concerts during the summer at the California Plaza who just write off the entire area as struggling at best. Lots of folks are not aware of the amazing cutting edge exhibits at MOCA over the past 2 years as well as how packed those concerts get during the summer. In many ways your dealing with a massive population (nationally) that has been taught to be brain dead when not dealing with the pop culture of an LA Live or a Times Square. So in the home of pop culture we might even have a harder time seeing the initial benefits of a Grand Ave project but it will prevail if we just learn to lengthen our attention span.

Spot on! But for the first 10 years it will have to combat the overexpectations of novices who believe that from the day it opens it should be a big hit, sort of like The Grove. It's one of the problems with LA being merely at best an adolescent city that grew up way too fast, its shortsightedness. I mean I've heard posters on this board question whether MOCA is successful and who never go to or even heard of the concerts during the summer at the California Plaza who just write off the entire area as struggling at best. Lots of folks are not aware of the amazing cutting edge exhibits at MOCA over the past 2 years as well as how packed those concerts get during the summer. In many ways your dealing with a massive population (nationally) that has been taught to be brain dead when not dealing with the pop culture of an LA Live or a Times Square. So in the home of pop culture we might even have a harder time seeing the initial benefits of a Grand Ave project but it will prevail if we just learn to lengthen our attention span.

:lol: You know, I don't think this project was even designed for those people who want instant gratification, because the very definition of this project is going to go waaaaay over their heads - at least initially. When major events occur in our city and when our city is visited by important people/world leaders, 9 times outta 10 this is where we're going to meet up. This project cannot be some flashy, hip project like L.A. Live - 100 years from now you're going to see Angelenos crowded around The Grand listening to some important figure speak with our very own city hall overlooking it all. NOW I see where Eli was going with this.

It's one of the problems with LA being merely at best an adolescent city that grew up way too fast, its shortsightedness.

LA's biggest problem is its shortsighted character, or better yet, its utter lack of vision and civic pride.

I think this happens because this is a transient city. Most people don't think of themselves as Angelenos, but instead as people who currently happen to reside in LA county.
There are not that many middle-income or even moderately wealthy people who have lived here for generations. Many people I talk to don't try to build something long term, or put policies in place that might effect their children. The reason is, they don't plan on living here forever, or having their kids live here forever. They simply think, "well, I work here now, so maybe I should buy a house. Well I bought a house, so maybe I should vote on things that will help ME right NOW"

Everyone's individualistic viewpoints end up hurting LA's character, and then eventually people get fed up and move out.

Hopefully, with better transit and the resurgence of our urban core, LA can actually have a strong sense of place and thus develop a GRAND vision.

My hope is that the GRAND is a step in the right direction.

PS: I went to see the opera last night at the music center. It was an amazing performance. Truly world class. The ONLY difference between this opera performance and SF's, was that SF had a real city wrapped around the hall! People left the peformance on an active, integrated, and urban landscape.

When I was in the sold out Hall with other multicultural theatre goers I felt like I could be in NYC or anywhere else. When I stepped out into the music center's small plaza, I still felt great. Then when I got to the street, I was transported from NYC/SF, back to LA. I saw city hall, christmas lights, the walt disney concert hall, and then NO people to appreciate it. It really saddens me. I started to look at the GRAND's current parking podium and I was envisioning the retail, the towers, etc. It made me smile! I really hope it gets done.
The big pieces are already there. City Hall, the cathedral, an expanded colburn, MOCA, Mark Taper, Ahmanson, Dorothy Chandler, the Disney Hall, and even a freakin subway. We are getting closer and closer to a real cultural "center". I can smell it.

Hopefully when I go the opera next year, I will have a beautiful crane to look at!

We can wish for at least a crane.

We can wish for at least a crane.

In current market conditions, a crane would be golden!

How is Grand Ave going to make it?

They have to do massive street improvements
They have an elaborate set of towers with very high construction costs
They have TONS of affordable housing units
They have to do a very expensive central park which I am assuming the residents have to some how pay for (unless LA is paying for something?!?)
They have a tons of expensive parking provisions

All this on top of, just simply building housing.

How the heck can they afford this development in the current market?

I hope for our sake it pencils out.

Too bad it's the developers who are looking for instant gratification, and not thinking "long term".:cheers:

Don't ya'll read the papers? That's what all of the hoo-hah was about.....basically the taxpayers are paying for it long term and their were major breaks given the development as well.

God bless the little green construction fences of L. A. :)

:lol::rofl:

no but seriously

$3 Billion Predicament: Grand Avenue Project Delayed

By Rich Alossi
January 11, 2008

The $3 billion Grand Avenue Project (http://www.thegrandla.com/), being developed by New York-based Related Cos., has been delayed. Official groundbreaking is being pushed back to summer at the earliest, according to a company representative we spoke with today.

Site prep work continues (http://www.angelenic.com/downtown-general/tinker-toy-parking-garage-disassembly-begins/), however, as the tinkertoy structure is being tested for demolition engineering purposes.

The official word on the delay is that “some key folks had conflicts with the timing.” Key folks, eh?

Blogdowntown recently reported (http://blogdowntown.com/blog/3044) on the Concrete Frequency (Chttp://www.calendarlive.com/music/classical/cl-ca-concrete30dec30,0,2061653.story) symposium with Frank Gehry, designer of the project’s first phase, in which the outspoken architect openly criticized the project’s funding. Gehry contends that “Money is not available and the developer is in denial.” This would seem to fit in perfectly with Mr. Gehry’s allegation.

With an unsteady market and construction costs that have climbed by over $1 billion since last year, this latest delay is unfortunate but hardly a surprise. However, it’s regrettable that Downtown has to pay the price of keeping another deadzone in our still-struggling Civic Center.

Previous Coverage

-Work Begins at Grand Avenue Project Site (http://www.angelenic.com/downtown-general/work-begins-at-grand-avenue-project-site/)
-New Grand Avenue Renderings (http://www.angelenic.com/downtown-general/new-grand-avenue-renderings/)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: angelenic (http://www.angelenic.com/downtown-general/3-billion-predicament-grand-avenue-project-delayed/)

Big civic minded projects like these are often delayed. And anything that Gehry is a part of is always delayed.

:grouphug: - O.K. guys! New game plan! Gehry's telling us Los Angeles isn't sucking on his preverbial teet like Bilbao did, and Hillary's saying we're headed for recession, so let's get out there and push it back and do this thing!

The $3 billion Grand Avenue Project, being developed by New York-based Related Cos., has been delayed. Official groundbreaking is being pushed back to summer at the earliest,

“Money is not available and the developer is in denial.”

The official word on the delay is that “some key folks had conflicts with the timing.”

http://www.womenstand.com/cnb/shop/the-womens-stand?imageID=5931&op=imgLib-viewImage

At least the project isn't cancelled. It could be worse... :dunno: [knocks on wood]

If you ask me, that's a lot o mulah, even for that project. :)

Big civic minded projects like these are often delayed. And anything that Gehry is a part of is always delayed.

That's true. I am glad its delayed. If it goes too quickly, costly cuts will be made from design features to finishes. You dont want to rush something like this. If it is to be done, it should be done right.

Gehry seems to fight related co alot. One of his main beefs is that related is not addressing the olive streetscape. Meaning that people who live in the historic core, will approach the development on its back side and have to walk all the way around before being welcomed. The olive side is similar to the highland side of hollywood and highland (although not AS bad).

Hopefully, during this credit crunch, related cos and work out any final details they need.

:grouphug: - O.K. guys! New game plan! Gehry's telling us Los Angeles isn't sucking on his preverbial teet like Bilbao did, and Hillary's saying we're headed for recession, so let's get out there and push it back and do this thing!


Im with u,
this is reminding me of the Millenium Park debocle!

oh yeah...I don't know what hurdles Millenium Park had to overcome. Could you expand on that?

Related: Grand Avenue's Work Schedule Hasn't Changed

By Dakota
January 17, 2008

Today, LAist.com posted on Grand Avenue (http://laist.com/2008/01/17/nobody_holds_a.php), citing those negative comments (http://blogdowntown.com/blog/3044) made by Frank Gehry and the ground-breaking push back (http://www.angelenic.com/3-billion-predicament-grand-avenue-project-delayed/) news. We asked Related's press rep for an update on the project, and specifically asked about the ground-breaking push back. Here's their statement: "The preliminary date for a groundbreaking ceremony is being revised due to the personal schedules of several key participants. The project’s work schedule hasn’t changed. We still plan to begin demolition of the garage in February.

"The schedule of the groundbreaking is symbolic and built around availability of multiple participants. It has little to do with the actual schedule. The total construction schedule is still about 45 months from now, and that hasn’t changed.”

Nobody holds a press conference when it's bad news (http://laist.com/2008/01/17/nobody_holds_a.php) [LAist.com]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Curbed LA (http://la.curbed.com/archives/2008/01/related_grand_a.php)

:grouphug: Everyone over at SSC Los Angeles is calling, so how 'bout "..groundbreaking ceremony is being revised due to... to..what? We're pussies? No...uhhhh..Gehry's a primadonna...no ..key participants and their schedules YESS!"

oh yeah...I don't know what hurdles Millenium Park had to overcome. Could you expand on that?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millenium_Park#Budget

The project was known for its notorious delays (it was originally intended to open in 2000 instead of 2004) and tripled costs. Some Chicagoans began to refer to the project deridingly as "next-millennium" park.

During development and construction of the park, many structures were added, redesigned or modified. These changes often resulted in budget increases. For example, the band shell's proposed budget was $10.8 million. When the elaborate, cantilevered Gehry design required extra piling be driven into the bedrock to support the added weight, the cost of the band shell eventually spiraled to $60.3 million. The total cost of the park, as itemized in the following table, amounted to almost $500 million. Much of the fundraising was borne by local business leaders, including the Pritzker family and Crown family.

Wow! Thanx for that "red" and thanx for the link. Eventhough at the time of budget overruns and delays it was most likely discouraging for Chicagoans, knowing the history of Millenium Park and seeing the glorious outcome should encourage us about the Grand Ave Park. This is going to be such an enormous contribution to downtown but I still contend that it won't be a hit out of the box.

^ What makes you think the park won't be an immediate hit out of the box? You have the Music Center, WDCH, MOCA, Colburn, Cathedral, High School #9, etc. all within a half-mile radius. Best of all, you have access to the Red Line subway.

What I'm most concerned about however is how well the two County buildings would impede the pedestrian accessibility of the park should the two edifices remain put.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g189/FROMLOSANGELES/downtown038.jpg
By FROM LOS ANGELES

Grand Avenue Groundbreaking Delayed

Developer Says $3 Billion Project Still on Schedule, With First Phase to Open in 2011

By Anna Scott

A groundbreaking ceremony for the $3 billion Grand Avenue project has been pushed back from March until at least the summer, officials with developer Related Cos. confirmed last week. It marks the third time that the public kickoff for the massive Bunker Hill effort has been postponed.

However, Related Cos. President Bill Witte said the development is on track to meet its most recently announced timeline, with phase one slated for completion in 2011. He also maintained that the project's financing is in order.

"The groundbreaking is more of a symbolic event," Witte told Los Angeles Downtown News last week. "It has little to do with where we are in the project schedule. We are continuing ahead, and we have the wherewithal to do it."

Designed by architect Frank Gehry, the 3.6 million-square-foot development - dubbed The Grand - is expected to eventually bring 2,600 housing units, 449,000 square feet of retail, a hotel, a grocery store and a health club to Downtown Los Angeles.

The approximately $1 billion, 1.3 million-square-foot first phase of the development will include a 48-story Mandarin Oriental Hotel & Residences with 295 rooms and 266 for-sale units, a 19-story residential tower with 126 market-rate apartments and 98 affordable units, a 250,000-square-foot retail pavilion and 16-acre civic park. The towers will rise across from Walt Disney Concert Hall on the site of a current multi-level parking lot.

Related initially set the groundbreaking for October 2007, but subsequently moved it to the end of the year. As that date neared, developers said that the ceremony would take place by March. That was recently amended to an unspecified date in the summer.

The repeated delays have led some in the real estate industry to speculate that the project is facing financial uncertainty. That comes amid the nationwide credit crunch and a softening of the housing market.

"These ceremonies are important on a number of levels," said a Downtown figure experienced in large projects, who asked to remain anonymous because he did not want to publicly criticize another development. "If you're not quite there with your funding, it's often far too risky to state that you're going to start. You don't want to take the financial hit if you have to scale back your project in any way."

Marty Collins, CEO and president of Gatehouse Capital Corp., developer of the under-construction $600 million hotel, retail and condominium complex W Hollywood Hotel and Residences, agreed that for large-scale projects, construction financing is typically in place before holding a groundbreaking ceremony.

But, he said, a groundbreaking delay could also reflect various considerations beyond the construction schedule. "Historically, groundbreakings have been events that are tied to the commencement of construction," Collins said, "but more recently, these are largely ceremonial marketing events."

Despite the delays, Witte maintains that the project is financially stable.

"The most important part of these deals is equity, which we anticipate to be 25% to 30% of the cost" for phase one, he said. "That is in place. As we begin site work, we will then get a construction loan to provide the balance of the financing. The issues in today's markets are not construction loans per se, but rather the equity that underpins them. As far as we are concerned, we have the necessary financing in place."

Securing that remaining funding in the slowing market, however, could come with additional hurdles, said Jack Kyser, senior vice president and chief economist for the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corp.

"They are in a somewhat unusual spot," Kyser said of Related Cos. "Right now, you have a financial system that has almost completely seized up. There is so much fear of risk, they are probably going to leap over higher hurdles."

Still, he added, the developer is probably in a better position than most.

"Related has a track record." Kyser said. "They will probably get their funding, but they're going to burn a little more midnight oil than they planned on."

Staying the Course

Despite the uncertainty in the real estate industry - including in Downtown, where several condominium projects have slowed or changed course to rental units - Witte said there are no plans to downsize or alter The Grand.

"Nobody who's in real estate today isn't somewhat concerned about the environment," said Witte, "but I do believe that even in this climate, Downtown is faring as good or better than other sub-markets. The way things have played out, we would rather be where we are than opening at the end of '08. We also know that we are getting very, very strong responses for an incredibly high-caliber level of retail and restaurants. We're doing better than we thought we might."

Last month, Related began lead paint abatement on the parking garage at Grand Avenue and First Street, which the company expects to demolish on schedule next month, Witte said. Construction on the $50 million park is expected to begin in the fall, with the opening slated for 2010. The hotel and retail pavilion are scheduled to debut in early 2011, and the residential towers are anticipated to open that summer.

In the meantime, Ninth District Councilwoman Jan Perry, who has been closely involved in the plan's development, said that any speculation about the project potentially changing course is "premature."

"I think most projects built in this city of this magnitude always experience bumps in the road," said Perry, who noted that Related paid for the park up front. "This is not a situation that is unusual."

Related will likely hold off on setting a specific date for the groundbreaking ceremony until demolition of the parking garage is complete, Witte said.

"Because this is such a protracted schedule, we want to be really into the ground-up construction before the groundbreaking," said Witte. He added, "If we start and there's a two-month delay, you'll all be calling again, asking what's going on.

"No matter what we do, we assume that we're going to get questions about the status of the project until we're finished."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Los Angeles Downtown News (http://www.downtownnews.com/articles/2008/01/21/news/news01.txt)

^ What makes you think the park won't be an immediate hit out of the box? You have the Music Center, WDCH, MOCA, Colburn, Cathedral, High School #9, etc. all within a half-mile radius. Best of all, you have access to the Red Line subway.



Well, none of us has a crystal ball.......but it will be opening in phases and each phase will play an integral part of making this park both a local as well as a worldwide tourist attraction. I don't feel the first phase is going to have them being "bussed in" frankly.

The very best thing this project will do is promote the area through photography. Images, park, Music Center, downtown nightlife etc. This area will enliven the photographic image of the area for the world, hopefully :)

Do we need a 16-acre mall from the Music Centre to City Hall? All we have on that site today are parking lots and un-useful looking greenspace.

The park will be built in phases? I thought the WHOLE park was going to be part of phase 1.

The very best thing this project will do is promote the area through photography. Images, park, Music Center, downtown nightlife etc. This area will enliven the photographic image of the area for the world, hopefully :)

Yea, it'll definately be a postcard,

does any one know the name of the landscape architect offhand...?...and thats what i heard, the park is all part of phase one

Dubai Royal Family Is New Grand Avenue Plan Investor for
Downtown Los Angeles Project
CalPERS, MacFarlane Partners Replaced in $3 Billion Project


by Anna Scott
Staff Writer
The Related Cos., the developer of the $3 billion Grand Avenue plan, has changed its financial partners, a top company official told Los Angeles Downtown News. While one major investor and its high-profile manager are no longer participating, the royal family of Dubai is on board.
Although a groundbreaking ceremony was recently delayed, Related of California President Bill Witte said the project is still on line to open its first phase in 2011.
Related will seek approvals from city, county and redevelopment officials over the next six weeks for the new investor in its proposed Bunker Hill mega-development. The company secured the new partnership with Istithmar, a sovereign fund controlled by the royal family of Dubai, after its key equity partner, California Public Employees’ Retirement System, pulled out.
CalPERS had invested in the Grand Avenue plan through its San Francisco-based advisor, management investment firm MacFarlane Partners. Last June, MacFarlane joined the Convention Center hotel project being developed by Anschutz Entertainment Group as part of the L.A. Live project.
“We have been working to replace them, even though there was no formal decision made, since early to mid-last year,” Witte said of CalPERS. “We reached agreement with our new equity partner in December.”
After taking several months to finalize the numbers, the new agreement is “completely signed and committed,” he said.
Related expects to receive approvals on its newly cemented partnership from the Community Redevelopment Agency board, the County Board of Supervisors and Grand Avenue Authority by the end of March. As part of the original agreement, Related was required to get new approvals if the major investment partner changed before the end of construction.
Once Istithmar is approved, Related can move forward with demolishing a multi-level parking lot on the project site, across from Walt Disney Concert Hall. That was previously expected to happen this month.
On Monday, Feb. 25, the Grand Avenue Authority is expected to approve design-development drawings from architect Frank Gehry, a key step in shoring up a construction loan.
“Once they approve it, we’re starting work on the final construction documents,” said Witte, “from which the numbers that go into the construction loan will be derived.”
Related is tentatively scheduled to go before the CRA board on March 6, the L.A. County Board of Supervisors on March 11 and the Grand Avenue Authority on March 17 for approval of Istithmar.

Plowing Through
The 3.6 million-square-foot project, officially known as The Grand, is expected to eventually bring 2,600 housing units, 449,000 square feet of retail, a hotel, a grocery store and a health club to Downtown.
The approximately $1 billion, 1.3 million-square-foot first phase of the project, slated for completion in 2011, will include a 48-story Mandarin Oriental Hotel & Residences with 295 rooms and 266 for-sale units, a 19-story residential tower with 126 market-rate apartments and 98 affordable units, a 250,000-square-foot retail pavilion and a 16-acre civic park.
In December, Related began lead paint abatement on the soon-to-be demolished parking garage at Grand Avenue and First Street, where the towers will rise. Construction on the $50 million park is expected to begin in the fall, with an opening slated for 2010. The hotel and retail pavilion are scheduled to debut in early 2011, and the residential towers are expected to open that summer.
Related last month delayed the project’s groundbreaking ceremony for the third time, pushing it from March to an unspecified date this summer. Witte has maintained that the construction schedule remains unaffected.
He said last week that the groundbreaking delays were not connected to the shuffling of investment partners. He stressed that despite missing an initial start date last October, as well as delayed plans from Gehry and legal challenges from the operator of the Westin Bonaventure Hotel (since settled), site work began late last year as planned.
“We knew we couldn’t get financing with the lawsuit outstanding,” said Witte. “But we didn’t slow down at all.… Had we not been able to make a deal on our equity late last year, it would’ve caused a delay, but we did.”

The Road Ahead
Other recent Istithmar investments include the acquisition of the upscale Barneys New York retail chain last year and an interest in two New York hotels developed by Related.
“They’re a huge fund that has invested in real estate all over the U.S.,” said Witte. He added, “They’re just investors. They don’t have any control” over the direction of The Grand.
Related’s previous partner, CalPERS, had invested entirely through MacFarlane Partners, which has had a hand in several Downtown projects including complexes Hikari and Block 8 in Little Tokyo (both from Related), and Forest City’s Met Lofts in South Park. The firm made a splash last summer when it joined AEG in the $900 million Convention Center hotel.
“With the focus during the last quarter of 2007 on the L.A. Live investment, the firm determined for the moment another major investment in Downtown Los Angeles such as Grand Avenue would not be prudent,” said company chairman and CEO Victor MacFarlane in an email last week, while traveling.
With Istithmar committed, Related’s biggest financial hurdle — partnering to provide the more than $300 million in equity that the developer pays upfront to obtain its estimated $600 million-plus construction loan — is now cleared, Witte said.
“In this climate, you can get a construction loan if you have enough equity,” said Witte. “The bigger challenge is getting the equity, because you’re taking the bigger risk.”
Bob Safai, a lending expert and principal at real estate brokerage Madison Partners, agrees that securing equity is a challenge in the market reeling from the subprime mortgage crisis. Banks today often require loan seekers to put down about twice as much upfront as was required just a year ago, up to nearly half the total loan amount, he said.
Even with equity in place, obtaining a loan in the current environment is no easy feat, said Safai.
“There’s much more stringent requirements on getting a loan done,” said Safai. “In this climate, when you’re dealing with local banks, often times you have to give a recourse loan, which means you personally guarantee the loan; you’re not just risking your equity.”
Witte concedes that the climate is tough.
“We are of course in a credit crunch, but we have our equity partner committed so we’re going forward,” he said. “I’d be lying if I said this is an easy time.”
He expects Related’s track record — which includes the Time Warner Center in New York, the planned $3 billion Snowmass Village Resort in Colorado and multiple West Cost projects — to go a long way in moving Grand Avenue forward.

“These are very tough, very large projects in uncertain times, but the people who keep moving are the people like AEG and Related,” he said. “We were here before Grand Avenue, and we’ll be here after Grand Avenue.”
Contact Anna Scott at anna@downtownnews.com

www.downtownnews.com

^The Dubai Royal family... woohoo!! there is not such thing as slowdown fear when it comes to this family... just take a look at what is going on in Dubai.

OH MY GOD, I mean- OH MY ALLAH!! Dubai is involved? Those low flying police chase helicopters for FOX 11 better watch it! This thing will shoot up fast enough to spear those puppies!

Wooooow. :eek: Dubai got involved? I wonder why... I certainly can't knock them at all for helping us get this project up though.

...is there a catch 22? :sly: J/K, but it makes you wonder...

Woot!

so do we think this will make the project take off?

^^ seems like the timeline is still the same. (which sucks!)

^ Why would it be any different? Just because the royal family of Dubai is getting involved in the project doesn't mean it'll move any faster.

Strange how people can read something and not understand a single word.

i didn't say that i expected the timeline to be any faster. i was refering to Fallen's response: "so do we think this will make the project take off?"

and this little attitude from soup or man is getting annoying.

^ Write to your congressman.

It was a universal statement. Wasn't directed towards any one person. Hence me saying 'people' and not 'person.'

Don't get all butthurt.

:grouphug: Whataya mean we don't have to test the soil? What'd the sheikh say? No environmental impact studies? We have to start on it this summer and be finished with all three phases before the end of the year? But, we're not supermen! You can't just throw money at us and expect us to build just like that!! We don't care how they build in Dubai, THIS IS L A, man!

"Because this is such a protracted schedule, we want to be really into the ground-up construction before the groundbreaking," said Witte. He added, "If we start and there's a two-month delay, you'll all be calling again, asking what's going on.

"No matter what we do, we assume that we're going to get questions about the status of the project until we're finished."
I wonder why http://easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-fighting-smileys-297.gif (http://easyfreesmileys.com/Free-Fighting-Smileys/)

Grand Avenue project: Articles in Saturday's California section and Monday's Section A about the Grand Avenue project in downtown Los Angeles said that Istithmar, a fund controlled by the royal family of Dubai, was investing about $75 million in the $3-billion development on Bunker Hill. Istithmar's investment in the project totals $100 million.

woops...$25 million...what's the difference to multi-billionaires anyway?

I hope they lose the "Grand" motif soon enough. It totally psychologically closes off the project to the surrounding cityscape and streetscapes compared to just allowing it to remain nameless and in a sense evolve into a more organic neighborhood emcompassing the area between Olive- Broadway. between Temple and 3rd.

^ I would rather it be called simply Grand Ave. Not for the mumbo jumbo you said but just simply because Grand Ave sound a bit more elegant. I mean it's across from The Grand Ave Apartments if that means anything.

Grand Avenue Designs Approved
Related Cos. One Step Closer to Securing Phase One Financing

by Anna Scott

The Grand Avenue plan took a small step forward Monday, Feb. 25, when city, county and redevelopment officials approved updated designs for the first phase of the Bunker Hill mega-development. The move allows developer Related Cos. to move forward with seeking an estimated $600 million-plus construction loan.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/news04.jpg

The latest designs for the Grand Avenue project were presented and approved last week. The first phase of the Frank Gehry-designed development is scheduled to open in 2011. Renderings courtesy of Related of California.
"It's a necessary milestone for us," said Related of California President Bill Witte.

Plans for phase one of the $3 billion, Frank Gehry-designed project, dubbed The Grand, call for a 48-story Mandarin Oriental Hotel & Residences with 295 rooms and 266 condominiums, a 19-story residential tower with 126 market-rate apartments and 98 affordable units, 250,000 square feet of retail, an Equinox health club, a nightclub and a 16-acre civic park. Completion is expected in 2011.

Designs had previously been approved for phase one, but the new documents provide a more detailed picture of the project.

"We've gone in and we've designed all of the materials of the façades - glass, stone, etc. - to a very high level of specificity that's ready for detailing," said Brian Aamoth of Gehry Partners, who displayed slides during last Monday's meeting of the Grand Avenue Authority. In addition to identifying materials, the new documents define the buildings' exterior volumes and interior layouts.

During his presentation, Aamoth highlighted the planned multi-level landscaping, terraces and open space with canopies to create shading between the two towers, as well as plans for retail and entrances on multiple sides of the project.

"What would normally be considered the back side of the project, we don't treat as the back side," said Aamoth. "We've taken advantage of all sides of the project to create a porous and active project."

Aamoth also touched on The Grand's relationship to Walt Disney Concert Hall, another Gehry-designed effort, which stands across from the development site.

"In a sense, the way that Disney Hall has a large hall and smaller pieces, we've sort of taken that design approach on this project," Aamoth said. Pointing out the diagonal placement of the two towers, surrounded and linked by smaller structures housing commercial components, he said, "Our intent was to break down the monolithic scale."

The documents presented Monday focused on the structural elements of The Grand. Developers are expected to bring detailed plans for landscaping and art inclusions to the Grand Avenue Authority on June 1.

The new specifications will inform the project's construction documents, expected to total more than 1,000 pages, which help determine building costs and how much is needed in a construction loan.

In December, Related began lead paint abatement on a multi-level parking structure at Grand Avenue and First Street, where the towers will rise. The company expects to demolish the structure by the end of this month, after its new phase one equity partner - Istithmar, a sovereign fund controlled by the royal family of Dubai - is approved by the Community Redevelopment Agency, the County Board of Supervisors and the Grand Avenue Authority.

Last week, Los Angeles Downtown News broke the news that Istithmar had committed to joining Related after the previous partner, California Public Employees' Retirement System, and its investment manager MacFarlane Partners, pulled out.

Istithmar has committed $100 million to the project, which Witte says he expects to account for about 40% of the total equity. Another partner, the Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group, has committed $42 million with another $20 million expected, Witte said. Related will take responsibility for the balance, he said, "and we may elect to bring in another partner."

Related currently has almost $90 million invested in The Grand. The developer previously predicted its total equity cost would be approximately $300 million, which Witte says was a "rounded up" figure.

A formal groundbreaking is slated for the summer.

Contact Anna Scott at anna@downtownnews.com.

I can't wait for the this to take off... I think it's one of the most expected project in LA because of Ghery's signature on it.

Meh, personally I think that Ghery's a little overrated. Some of his other work is just terrible. The only thing of his that I know and like is the concert hall, so I hope that Grand Ave. (I'll still call it that) will turn out like that.

Grand Avenue Partners Get First Approval

News Brief

The Community Redevelopment Agency board last Thursday approved developer Related Companies' new key equity partner, Istithmar - an investment fund controlled by the royal family of Dubai - in the first phase of its $3 billion Grand Avenue project. Los Angeles Downtown News last month was the first to report that Related joined with Istithmar after a previous partner, California Public Employees' Retirement System, and its investment manager MacFarlane Partners, pulled out of the Bunker Hill project officially known as The Grand. A third investor, the Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group, was also approved Thursday. Related of California President Bill Witte has said that Istithmar has committed $100 million to the project, expected to account for about 40% of the initial equity. Mandarin Oriental has committed $42 million with another $20 million expected, while Related will assume responsibility for the balance and may bring in another partner. The new partnership must also be approved by the County Board of Supervisors and the Grand Avenue Authority, expected to happen by the end of this month. Once approvals are complete, Related can move forward with demolishing a multi-level parking structure at First Street and Grand Avenue. The developer is also in the process of finalizing the project's construction documents, a necessary step before securing the estimated $600 million-plus construction loan. Phase one of The Grand, designed by Frank Gehry, will feature a 48-story Mandarin Oriental Hotel & Residences with 295 rooms and 266 condominiums, a 19-story residential tower with 126 market-rate apartments and 98 affordable units, 250,000 square feet of retail, an Equinox health club, a nightclub and a 16-acre civic park. Completion is expected in 2011.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: Los Angeles Downtown News (http://www.downtownnews.com/articles/2008/03/10/news/news_briefs/at01.txt)

Approved

Grand Avenue project changes ownership
By Troy Anderson, Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 03/11/2008 09:14:27 PM PDT


The Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors on Tuesday approved an ownership change for the $3 billion Grand Avenue project in downtown Los Angeles, transferring a 45 percent capital interest to a Dubai-owned company.

The developer, The Related Cos., will retain a 55 percent capital interest in the project.

Related's previous equity partner, California Urban Investment Partners - owned 97 percent by CalPERS and 3 percent by MacFarlane Urban Realty Co. - decided not to participate in the project.

"Unfortunately, CalPERS and MacFarlane were overinvested in downtown so Related has sought to find another equity partner," Supervisor Gloria Molina said.

"Related found Istithmar (Group), which was previously invested with them in the Time Warner Center Mandarin Oriental Hotel (in New York City) so they've dealt with them before. Under the ownership ... they will own the project and have key Related personnel remain as our contacts."

The supervisors voted 4-0 for the deal with the Istithmar Group - a subsidiary of Dubai World, a privately held holding company owned by the government of Dubai.

Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich, who has long criticized the plan, abstained. Afterward, Antonovich said he's been frustrated with construction delays and an estimated $176 million in taxpayer subsidies.

"It's a project I've been concerned about from the beginning," Antonovich said. "It's benefiting a handful of people and the cost overruns built into this project will be borne by the taxpayers who will be victimized once again from these types of developers." (there would be NO taxes if this was never built, right?)

Construction on the project was originally expected to begin last year, but was delayed due to a lawsuit filed by the Bonaventure Hotel. :ohno:

Now that the lawsuit has been settled, Related Cos. of California President Bill Witte said he expects construction to start in late summer. (ha! we'll see about that)

The project, featuring a 16-acre park and a Frank Gehry-designed tower near the Walt Disney Concert Hall, will include retail stores, cafes, restaurants and bars expected to transform the area into a cultural and entertainment hub.

It will consist of 3.6 million square feet of new development, including a 48-story Mandarin Oriental Hotel & Residences, a 250,000-square-foot retail pavilion, a 19-story residential tower and a 16-acre park between City Hall and the Music Center.

At the meeting, Antonovich asked county Chief Executive Officer Bill Fujioka why CalPERS and MacFarlane withdrew from the project.

"I can't speak to the reason why CalPERS withdrew their investment, but I can speak to the strength of the proposed new partner," Fujioka said.

"We looked at other projects and feel this is a good match. And we stand behind it."

Witte said construction costs have leveled off, partly due to a slowdown in the economy, and he said he expects demand for retail space downtown to increase.

"I think there is a lot of room for growth," Witte said. "And we have been pleasantly surprised by the response from the retail community we have gotten over the last year.

"With the residential market, interestingly, the downtown market is generally performing better than other submarkets in the area." :banana:

Meh, personally I think that Ghery's a little overrated. Some of his other work is just terrible. The only thing of his that I know and like is the concert hall, so I hope that Grand Ave. (I'll still call it that) will turn out like that.

Not all of his stuff is horrible. People just don't understand his style which is why I like him.

ICA Building (NYC)
http://designcrack.com/v2/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/iac-frank-gehry.jpg

The Original New York Times Building (NYC)
http://www.guggenheim.org/exhibitions/past_exhibitions/gehry/images/projects/projects_images/ny_times13_lg.jpg

Dancing House (Prague)
http://www.prague30.com/photo_gallery/photo_gallery_8341ab3f54906e43d1d1364796ee39e0.jpg

Some chairs
http://inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/battleofthechairs2.jpg

A table
http://www.20cdesign.com/images/tables/FrankGehryTbl.jpg

Springfield Concert Hall
http://massengale.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/dohgehry.jpg

The Springfield Hall funding fell through as well as the finances for the Shelbyville Hall. Both cities don't see comparable projects being built in the foreseeable future, which is too bad because Springfield metropolitan was really counting on this development to spur downtown growth within the Springfield economic empowerment zone. With the Springfield monorail heading into the black finally, this news could not have happened at a more inopportune time.

I thought that was the Springfield Correctional Facility...

I thought that was the Springfield Correctional Facility...

Yeah, that sounds right. :)

Funding Puts Grand Avenue Plan in Starting Position

With $100 million from a Dubai fund, construction of the massive mixed-use development in downtown Los Angeles will begin next month, officials say.

By Cara Mia DiMassa, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
March 18, 2008

Armed with $100 million from Dubai and a refined design plan, officials Monday said construction will finally begin next month on the Frank Gehry-designed residential and shopping plaza along Grand Avenue that is considered a linchpin to downtown L.A.'s revitalization.

The announcement comes after months of delays and questions about the viability of such a massive development in the midst of L.A.'s real estate slump.

But those doubts were eased significantly Monday when the government agency overseeing the redevelopment approved the investment of Istithmar, a fund controlled by the royal family of Dubai.

The fund stepped in with $100 million after one of Grand Avenue's big early investors, California Public Employees' Retirement System, exited the project, saying the organization was already too heavily invested in the downtown real estate market.

The investment from Dubai gives the developer, Related Cos., the money needed to secure construction loans -- allowing it to finally tear down a parking structure across from the Walt Disney Concert Hall, where the first phase of the development will be built. The $2-billion plan calls for shops, condo towers and a boutique hotel -- as well as a civic park -- on city and county land on Bunker Hill.

"There will always be challenges on this project." said Bill Witte, chief executive of Related California, which is overseeing the project. "But we feel very good about where it is now."

Construction was expected to begin last fall, but the time required for design development and project approvals caused delays.

A lot is riding on the project. Grand Avenue is seen by downtown boosters as a way to bring night life and an upscale feel to the city center.

Russell Brown, president of the Downtown Los Angeles Neighborhood Council and executive director of the Historic Downtown business improvement district, said he had been hearing for months concerns that Grand Avenue was in trouble.

"But any large project takes a while to work things through," Brown said. "In many ways, these haven't been routine delays. To be able to go through those hurdles, in spite of that uncertainty, expresses a great amount of confidence in downtown, and in L.A. I think it's going to be an amazing event."

Craig Webb of Gehry Partners said details of the project were fleshed out from the initial schematic design. Those refinements, he said, included figuring out the facades of the project's two towers, doorway locations and stonework patterns -- "pretty specific stuff."

The towers -- which would house residences as well as a Mandarin Oriental hotel -- would be "skinned" with a combination of glazing, stone and precast concrete.

In addition, Webb said, "we've been working on the interiors of the apartments, getting into very fine details about the kitchens and the bathrooms -- all the stuff that makes a building go together. The full building from top to bottom."

Now, Webb said, another firm will take the designs and translate them into thousands of pages of construction documents.

Two aspects of the design -- the landscaping and public art components -- are still in the works, Witte said. He said he expected the Grand Avenue Authority, which is made up of city and county leaders, to consider those elements in May.

Plans for a public park that is part of the project's first phase are also in the initial stages. Officials hope to unveil a proposed schematic design for the park at a meeting in late April, where they also plan to discuss how the park will be operated and programmed. Witte said he expected construction to begin on the park this year.

There remain skeptics who wonder whether downtown L.A. is being overdeveloped with condo projects. In addition to Grand Avenue, there are a slew of residential towers rising around Staples Center, a 76-story tower proposed next to Pershing Square and other older office buildings being renovated for apartments.

In the last year, about a third of all proposed housing developments downtown have been put on hold or canceled. They include the 50-story Zen tower on 3rd and Hill streets, the Mill Street Lofts in the industrial district, the multitower Metropolis off the 110 Freeway and the conversion of the former Herald Examiner building.

At the meeting Monday, some officials noted downtown's changing landscape.

"We need to continue to wish ourselves good luck," said L.A. County Supervisor Gloria Molina.

The three-phase Grand Avenue project ultimately could include eight condo and office towers, retail stores, a boutique hotel and public park. The first phase includes two towers at opposite ends of the block east of Disney Concert Hall -- set that way to preserve sightlines to the venue from many parts of downtown. The taller tower -- 48 stories -- would include rooftop pools, 264 high-end condo units, a 289-room Mandarin Oriental and an Equinox health club.

The second, 19-story tower would include nearly 100 rental units -- designated as affordable housing -- and 126 condominiums. Phase one also includes the civic park northeast of the concert hall.

The second phase is to be built on the block south of Disney Hall, with preliminary plans calling for two 30- to 35-story residential towers, one five- to six-story residential building and more retail stores and parking. The third phase would go two blocks east of the concert hall. Preliminary plans call for a 35- to 40-story residential building that would include some retail shops and possibly a 15- to 20-story building with office space or condos.

Brown said he had recently returned from Bilbao, Spain, where he saw the Frank Gehry-designed Guggenheim Museum and a trolley system built throughout the city. Brown, who has been working on a similar street car system for Los Angeles, said the trip convinced him of "the extent to which significant architecture and public spaces can really revitalize whole city centers."

He predicted that the public park and Grand Avenue's retail spaces, which could potentially include a gym, bookstore and grocery store, "will start to pull together parts of the community on the northern part of downtown that have never been there before."

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Source: Los Angeles Times (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-grand18mar18,1,364431.story)

How tall this one should be?

^ The 48-story tower will most likely top out at around 500 feet.

i would say a little taller since there is a hotel component to it. Dont hotels usually have 11 or 12 foot differences between floors compared to 10 or so for residential?

next month? I'll believe it when I see it... ;)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3214/2436004166_fc2168c817_b.jpg
Kathleen McMullin asks a question about the park model.

Presented Park Plan a Start, but Illustrates the Need for a Cohesive Transit System

By Eric Richardson
April 22, 2008

County Supervisor Gloria Molina welcomed the crowd gathered to hear of plans for a redone Civic Center park with a warning: dreaming is nice, but at the end of the day something's got to be built with the money the project has in hand.

Her remarks set the tone for a meeting that lacked grand reveals, and instead talked of building a basic foundation onto which pieces could be added as additional funds were raised. Given the lack of architectural fireworks, programming that included large events was given a prominent placement.

Though neither were addressed, the presentation's focus on crowds illustrated how vital both the streetcar and Regional Connector will be to the park's success.

The Civic Center park sits tucked away between government buildings, running from the Music Center on the west to City Hall on the east. With the 101 freeway a significant barrier to its north, the park isn't naturally at the center of anything. While the Grand Avenue Project will bring residential development a block away, the bulk of Downtown's residents aren't within an easy walk of the park site.

Those who want to come to the park to read a book, eat at the cafe or throw around a frisbee will have to find their way to the site. The proposed streetcar system, in its role as a "walk extender," offers the best potential to make the park somewhere that residents will visit. Without it, the space's location quickly becomes a deterrent to casual use.

Large events will draw a crowd from beyond Downtown and bring their own set of challenges. The park flows down from the Music Center to City Hall with an emphasis on open views, creating an ideal space for concerts and rallies. In the process, though, the site crosses three major north-south streets: Spring, Broadway and Hill. All three are heavily used by bus lines.

A major event that extended through the park and led to the three streets' closure would currently cause a major disruption in transit traffic that travels through Downtown. A below-grade Regional Connector, as a second grade separated trunk line through Downtown, offers the ability for transit lines to run to the edges of the Central City.

Passengers headed across town would be able to transfer to the rail, sail under the disruption above, and reboard their bus on the other side. Alternatively, routes could simply bypass around Downtown, offering a connection to the rail system as a way to let those traveling into the core reach their destination.

All this, though, will take some time. Plans for the park have much to be finalized, and construction is tentatively scheduled for a Spring / Summer 2009 start and a mid-2011 conclusion.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2062/2436004822_761d5e766c_b.jpg
At Hill street the plan would leave current parking ramps intact, simply putting some green over top of them. Pedestrians would have to travel around the ramps, as they do today, disrupting a continuous flow down the middle of the site.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2172/2436004554_15918355ba_b.jpg
The enhanced park plan would re-activate the old State Building footprint, already once a park (http://blogdowntown.com/2008/04/3243-in-past-life-state-building-footprint-was). The basic plan would leave it in its current state.

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Source: Blogdowntown (http://blogdowntown.com/2008/04/3266-presented-park-plan-a-start-but-illustrates)

I...I don't know what to say! All those trees look very strange...

This project is already doomed and hasnt even started yet!!j/k. I agree with blog guy Public Transportation is very important in the success of this park. Hopefully the Downtown Connector and Streetcar system will be up and running within the next 5 years.

^ The Red Line has a stop at the park.

I've said this before; All you have to do is first: Get rid of those two County buildings. They choke the whole project from the start. Replace those two buildings at the locations of their eastern most part of their foundations. That means erecting two buildings that are verticle in nature, of course, and match the style reminiscent of the period when the City Hall was constructed. Both structures would be white in color and be between 30 and 40 stories tall to replace the County offices. One building would occupy the corner of Temple and North Hill and the other building, North Hill and Tom Bradley. Both structures would be art deco in nature and frame City Hall from the vantage point of the plaza at the Music Center, which sits above it all. Simple. All of that space bordered by Temple, Grand, Tom Bradley and N. Hill, would be opened up. Big trees would be placed appropriately at the perimeter so that sight lines from a huge circular reflecting pond with fountain (Located between the new County towers) would be unobstructed. 16 acres would seem larger and more impressive with the Cathedral, the Music Center, Disney Hall and even The Grand Avenue project visible, and poking above it. The way it is now is plain shit! Oh yeah, the reflecting pond is 150 feet in diameter and is frozen over in the winter, for skating- and the fountain becomes a massive podium for a lit tree during the Holidays. Imagine that sight at night from the Dorothy Chandler Pavillion! The rest, just grass:dunno:

it's pretty sad to see a park with only patches of green spaces.

and what happened to the other proposal? i thought there was supposed to be 2?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2184/2436185074_9f5f1e2437_b.jpg
flickr view from a loft

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3062/2435354447_93c3b0b2bb_b.jpg
flickr view from a loft

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2025/2436178440_0076b92d8b_b.jpg
flickr view from a loft

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3045/2436186216_381beee0ed_b.jpg
flickr view from a loft

guess there are two....but they look the same

What, putting actual models of trees aren't good enough? Those look like if i put them all together, i can make a green dish of Ratatouille

^^ That's what it looks like!!

Some more photos of the park model...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3179/2436230197_5b2f1d91ac_o.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3069/2436229905_8e58d6093a_o.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3243/2436229495_f0482375f9_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2314/2437047616_7b71b61f1c_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2274/2436228269_1536f6c371_o.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2197/2436227847_bd95487465_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2113/2437034884_2248ed1e85_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3266/2436210895_f32d92e297_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3260/2437008032_eb04ccde45_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3073/2437007552_477792d004_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2358/2436188293_8b03a2b205_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3264/2436076593_93392aaa6c_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3198/2436072203_bc3091662e_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3039/2436067465_8c07feabef_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2327/2436877856_fbb40eae90_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2283/2436858370_2906f14b2b_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3112/2436035937_d4f008f21f_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3010/2436850616_a37870cd1f_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3133/2436029623_fbd6036c4b_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3257/2436025039_1f3979b5f2_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

And here are some photos of the Grand Avenue project model...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2014/2436839370_2696fdf255_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3289/2436836052_d4f0d2e2b4_b.jpg
From Flickr, by alossix

I'm this close to jumpimg in my car and racing down there... with a sledge hammer...

^ Milk, specifically what don't you like about the design of the park? I do think it's a bit much, but I was expecting something far more generic. I'm glad they at least tried to spice it up with some artwork and such.

post #233

It needs to open up to the Ghery side where the Walt Disney is but it feels cut off on both sides.

I'm this close to jumpimg in my car and racing down there... with a sledge hammer...

I'm with you on this one... This design is unbelievably tacky. At the risk of advocating something "generic," I honestly think this park would be more balanced with more greenery, ponds, etc. Maybe some nice California evergreens?

Is there someone to contact?

it's pretty sad to see a park with only patches of green spaces.

and what happened to the other proposal? i thought there was supposed to be 2?

I completely agree! give it a year and all that is going to be filled with old chewing gum, piss, stains, and homeless people.

The park also needs more trees!! we need shade!! there are very few trees in that proposal. Why do you think pershing square is dead...with all that concrete and hot sun shining all over it.

Why is everyone being so judgmental and cynical? The design is purely conceptual. There aren't actually going to be yellow cubes and orange sponges. Also, the park shown in the model isn't devoid of trees.

Seriously, stop complaining! If you want to design it yourself, then just go down to the park and start it yourself! :ohno:

The sculptures, artwork, and the fountain are fine, but god damn it, it's a park people! For god's sake there's probably more trees at Grand Hope Park. Take out 2/3 of the concrete and add grass, and add 2/3 more trees and you got something going on. And what ever happened to the county offices that were supposed to be rebuilt?

why did people reply here saying they are afraid of a generic park? i actually would prefer that

Depends what you mean by 'generic', and why should we not be cynical here? People are explaining they are scared of this going through, not entirely confident that after all these years this is the best they could come up with, and telling you WHY they feel this way. Why should everyone else get it right? Pershing is a prime example on a smaller scale. Of getting it wrong :)