The question says it all. TGVweb has one of the best, unfortunately it's from April 2001, and doesn't show LGV Est, Rhin-Rhone, Perpignan-Figueres, or any German or Spanish lines.

http://www.trainweb.org/tgvpages/jpg/tgvgeomap.jpg

There was also one annotated in German on Wikipedia, but I can't find it any more. Does anybody have any decent, up-to-date maps?

Purple: built, u/c or planned; green: wishful thinking:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/maps/c6gd2.gif

This is the current Spanish situation.

Green:on service, yellow:under construction, red:planned

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/AVE-Diciembre2006.png/800px-AVE-Diciembre2006.png

Yes, there are, but I can't remember where. :D

Purple: built, u/c or planned; green: wishful thinking:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/snot/maps/c6gd2.gif

Milano-Bologna is 80% completed, Milano-Venezia-Lubljiana planend.

Bordeaux-Marseille planned, not udbner construction.

Purple: built, u/c or planned

...

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9626/c6gd2hl2.gif

I can speak for Czech and Slovakia railway (part of TransEuro railway)
currently Czech has railway speed from Prague to Bratislava 160km/h Pedndolino train and Prague to Ostrava also Pendolino train,
currently Slovak building 160 km/h track from Bratislava to Kosice (4more years to be complete)= and then continue to Kiyv(Kiev)=Ukraine

High speed 300km/h (Berlin, Prague, Brno, Wien, Bratislava ...possibly to Budapest)

cost 8 bilion dolars (for Czech rep. area)
completed to 2016-2020

...

Sorry!

But anyway, Milano-Bolgona is under construction.

What is the status of the LGV Est line? the French map above indicates it was scheduled for completion 2006[ the european map indicates it was 'in service or under construction".

What is the status of the LGV Est line? the French map above indicates it was scheduled for completion 2006[ the european map indicates it was 'in service or under construction".

The first stage should be opening in June this year.

The first stage should be opening in June this year.

Thanks ... and that goes to ?

What is the minimum average speed to classify a track as a high speed track?

The high speed section goes between Nancy and Metz but TGV will go in Strasbourg and maybe in Germany at Frankfurt.

Gah... In Terms of High-Speed, Luxembourg needs to do better... where is HSL Link to Germany, dammit!

What is the minimum average speed to classify a track as a high speed track?

I have found out that there is no standard definition of "high speed rail". Minimum speed of highspeed rails seem to vary with 160km/h, 200km/h, 250km/h.
Considering that the rail line Hamburg-Berlin was upgraded in 2004 for speeds of 230km/h, it would qualify as highspeed rail in two of the cases above (the german railway company classifies this track as a highspeed rail). So the map Dee Hinnov showed us is probably incorrect.

Thanks ... and that goes to ?
Quoting from Wikipedia:

"The construction of the new line has been split into two phases:

* from Vaires-sur-Marne (Seine-et-Marne) near Paris to Baudrecourt (Moselle), where it joins the conventional Metz-Saarbrücken and Metz-Strasbourg lines, due to open June 2007;
* from Baudrecourt to Vendenheim (Bas-Rhin) near Strasbourg, expected around 2010. Before then, TGV will run at normal speed (160 km/h) between these two cities via the existing Metz-Strasbourg line."

The first section is 300 km long, the second 106.

Green on that list isn't "wishful thinking" I think. A lot of the lines that are coloured green are already at relatively high speeds of around 200 km/h.

In 2005:
http://fig-st-die.education.fr/actes/actes_2005/troin/fig2_europe_dela_gv2005.jpg

^^
For Italy there are several 'mistakes': Roma-Napoli HS is operational and Milano-Torino sis under construction (and in part operational, between Torino and Novara, just 50 km from Milan city center)

Cordoue/Cordoba-Malaga nearly completed
Madrid-Valence/Valencia under construction
Turin-Milan-Naples nearly or yet completed (maybe open in 2009)
Paris-Metz-Strasbourg opens to Metz next June
Milan-Zürich, not really HS, partly under construction
London-Eurotunnel nearly completed (opens this year)
Bruxelles-Amsterdam under construction
Lyon-Turin-Milan...nobody knows!

Cordoue/Cordoba-Malaga nearly completed
Madrid-Valence/Valencia under construction
Turin-Milan-Naples nearly or yet completed (maybe open in 2009)
Paris-Metz-Strasbourg opens to Metz next June
Milan-Zürich, not really HS, partly under construction
London-Eurotunnel nearly completed (opens this year)
Bruxelles-Amsterdam under construction
Lyon-Turin-Milan...nobody knows!
So, do you have an up to date map without "wishes" and with real HSL (more than 250km/h) ?

No, but on Trainspotting Bükkes ( http://bueker.net/trainspotting/maps.php ) you can find maps of all European nations.

High-speed lines are all electrified with 25 kV AC, and, as in Spain, Italy, Netherlands and Belgium use that current only on HSL, you can easily find them (with the exception of two lines in Belgium, near Luxembourg, that also use 25 kV without being an HS line, and in Italy, Roma-Firenze is HS but electrified in 3 kV).

Brussels-Amsterdam is completed though not operational yet. The opening has just been put back a further couple of months.

In the map of Spain, you must add:

-Madrid-Toledo: done.
-Zaragoza-Huesca: done.
-Lleida-Tarragona: done.
-Barcelona-French border: under construction now.
:wink2:

Cordoue/Cordoba-Malaga nearly completed
Madrid-Valence/Valencia under construction
Turin-Milan-Naples nearly or yet completed (maybe open in 2009)
Paris-Metz-Strasbourg opens to Metz next June
Milan-Zürich, not really HS, partly under construction
London-Eurotunnel nearly completed (opens this year)
Bruxelles-Amsterdam under construction
Lyon-Turin-Milan...nobody knows!
Dijon-Mulhouse: under construction (open in 2011)

Lyon-Turin-Milan...nobody knows!

Er...yes I do. The French Ministery of Equipment annouced earlier this week that the construction will start next year. First they will build the Lyon-Chambéry section, due to open in 2011 (the journey will then shrink from 1h20 to 22 minutes !!!). The rest will be connected to the Italian network later, appearently by at the latest by 2020.

Does the average speed of 160 km/h count as high speed? Or if not, what's that minimum speed?

I think high speed starts at 250 km/h...

^ On the other hand, it's subjective, what's fast and what's slow; in a small, not very transit country, 160 km/h should be more than enough.

Er...yes I do. The French Ministery of Equipment annouced earlier this week that the construction will start next year. First they will build the Lyon-Chambéry section, due to open in 2011 (the journey will then shrink from 1h20 to 22 minutes !!!). The rest will be connected to the Italian network later, appearently by at the latest by 2020.The problem is on Italian side, where Nimbys protests (supported by parties in the Governement) could stop any decisions on HSL realization

Milan-Zürich, not really HS, partly under construction

The planned maximum speed for the Gotthard base tunnel is 250km/h so that's real HS.

^^
Yes, but in the Gotthard base tunnel will run even ordinary trains, will they?
So if even a little stretch has a 'mixed' used, we can't consider the line really HS...

The new Gotthard railway is built mainly for freight trains.

I think that passenger trains will run at no more than 200 km/h, greater speeds would reduce capacity.

And yet, the main tunnel will be passed (at 200 km/h) in 17 minutes, compared to 1h10 today via the existing line.

^^
So if even a little stretch has a 'mixed' used, we can't consider the line really HS...
You only consider exclusive HS tracks as HS? The new Cisalpina will hopefully run with 250km/h throught the tunnel. Chances get lower for that if the Porta Alpina gets build (hopefully it won't).

Italian high speed rail network (TAV):
http://i10.tinypic.com/2q99kxl.jpg

The legend reads:
Operational
U/C
Planned

I think high speed starts at 250 km/h...
According to European Union rules, high speed is 200kph or more.
:yes:
Anyway, sometimes average commercial speeds, including stops, are around 170-180kph.
;)

According to European Union rules, high speed is 200kph or more.

Wrong: this is 250km/h.
200 km/h means "fast track" but nor "high speed track".

^^You are wrong, with the new rules it is 200kph or more.
:yes:

^^You are wrong, with the new rules it is 200kph or more.
:yes:

If it's so, those maps above have several mistakes excluding Finnish HSR tracks. Since September 2006 trains between Kerava and Lahti have been able to run at 220 km/h.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4412/pen1ai1.jpg
[source: RHK]

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/1080/pen2qz0.jpg
[source: RHK]

Furthermore there are several long tracks that allow trains to run slightly slower than 200 km/h.

The definition of HSL is basically dedicated tracks not shared with other types of traffic, ie freight, commuter, regional or slower long distance trains. This is why HSL is so expensive, it can only be used exclusively by High speed trains and require much higher safety standards. This is also the reason why most european countries yet haven't built any HSL or "high speed line".

HSL is also a financial risk, for example the Shinkansen which is the most successfull HSL network to this date have yet to turn profit. And the TGV is financially bleeding.

^^ So, are you saying that German ICE trains are not high-speed trains since they share tracks with other types of trains? How about Pendolinos that are used is several European countries?

Um no, I said that few countries in europe have real highspeed lines because they are to expensive, only France have a network as of today. The german ICE have only short sections of dedicated tracks in Germany yet, the train is highspeed but most of the tracks are not. The Pendolino in for example Finland is highspeed train on conventional tracks, it is not a highspeed line.

You have to make a diffrence between highspeed trains and highspeed tracks, without dedicated tracks the speedlimit is basically 200-250 wheras on highspeed tracks trains run at 300 and beyond.

The definition of HSL is basically dedicated tracks not shared with other types of traffic, ie freight, commuter, regional or slower long distance trains. This is why HSL is so expensive, it can only be used exclusively by High speed trains and require much higher safety standards. This is also the reason why most european countries yet haven't built any HSL or "high speed line".

HSL is also a financial risk, for example the Shinkansen which is the most successfull HSL network to this date have yet to turn profit. And the TGV is financially bleeding.
I thought that the Shinkansen and TGV were profitable. The first French HSL, the LGV Sud Est, paid for itself in ten years, AFAIK.

I thought that the Shinkansen and TGV were profitable. The first French HSL, the LGV Sud Est, paid for itself in ten years, AFAIK.
Neither one of them is profitable. I don't think there is one profitable high speed system anywhere in the world. The ICE and Italian system surely aren't either.

France are thinking of running freight on the LGV mediterranee on the perpignan side into Spain, to increase profitability due to the forecast lower traffic levels. Would a world first - mixed use HSL.

^^ Roma-Firenze HS line in Italy, even if today is used only by passenger trains, was designed to be used also by freight. Design speed 250 km/h, opened february 1977, even before the Paris-Lyon TGV line (even if this was planned only for passenger from the beginning).

Also the new lines under construction (Torino-Milano-Bologna-Firenze and Roma-Napoli) were planned to be used also by freight trains.

Wrong: this is 250km/h.
200 km/h means "fast track" but nor "high speed track".
Not exactly, read please:
;)

As UiC says:

In view of infrastructure:

As regards infrastructure, the definition of high speed rail covers a number of notions. A line is currently described as a "high speed line" when it is a new one designed to enable trains to operate at speeds above 250 km/h throughout the whole journey, or at least over a significant part of the journey.

So any line, whether a new one or an upgraded conventional one, suitable for carrying traffic at up to 200 km/h, may be considered a high-speed line if it satisfies special criteria such as substantial reductions in journey time, the crossing of mountains or straits, the use of narrow gauge track, the "network effect" bonus, etc.

From the standpoint of the infrastructure high speed traffic will thus comprise all traffic running on high speed lines, regardless of the type of rolling stock used.
:wink2:

So any line, whether a new one or an upgraded conventional one, suitable for carrying traffic at up to 200 km/h, may be considered a high-speed line if it satisfies special criteria such as substantial reductions in journey time, the crossing of mountains or straits, the use of narrow gauge track, the "network effect" bonus, etc.

The Gotthard Base tunnel surely fulfills this criteria.

I love high speed railways very much,I want to collect some high speed railways route map,thank you very much(Sorry,My English is not so good:nuts: )

This is my collection:

Spanish AVE

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0d/AVE-Diciembre2006.png/800px-AVE-Diciembre2006.png


Japanese Shinkansen

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/4/46/Shinkansen_map.png


Taiwan's THSR

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/TaiwanHighSpeedRail_Route_Map.png


Korean KTX

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Ktx-network-%28edited%29.png

A more detailed map of the Shinkansen network:


http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6943/shinkansenfl9.png (http://imageshack.us)

Great! What are those grey lines, btw?

^^

Lines under construction

So, do you have an up to date map without "wishes" and with real HSL (more than 250km/h) ?

"Tecnically" HSL is anything above 160/200kmh ... the high Limit now is 300/320/360kmh .. .and the "express passenger only" is just a cliché ...

[Basicaly if you have <300km and more than 4 stops a 300kmh line is not better than a 200/250kmh ... too much cost for little gain.

>250kmh (should be called "very high speed") running only begins to compensate for 500km with few (or none in case SNCF LGV East) where it can compete with air travel times.]

Almost NO region of europe falls in the second option ... only "la meseta" (in spain) and france.

250kmh running is pushing the envelope of mixed traffic lines to the limit ... but if you have dedicated tracks it's the "sweetspot" between Highspeed and low cost maintenance ...

For instance imagine that you have a 4 track line and you use all 4 as mixed traffic ... if instead you put 2 for low speed regional/freight and 2 for 160/350kmh TGV ... you got an HSL ... London-Southampton should be considered a HSL as the HST(class460?) run at 160kmh (third rail is the only limitation) and almost every line on UK runs on segregated double track.

France and Germany HAD a 160/200kmh prior to invest in HSL(280/320kmh) branches out of paris/Frankfurt/Hamburg ... Spain is slowly and painstikingly upgrading their network to 200kmh but already built their 350kmh core lines.

In the near future almost every main line in Europe will be a mixed double track with speeds of 200kmh or more ... only selected few wil be dedicated for high speed.

Um no, I said that few countries in europe have real highspeed lines because they are to expensive, only France have a network as of today. The german ICE have only short sections of dedicated tracks in Germany yet, the train is highspeed but most of the tracks are not. The Pendolino in for example Finland is highspeed train on conventional tracks, it is not a highspeed line.

You have to make a diffrence between highspeed trains and highspeed tracks, without dedicated tracks the speedlimit is basically 200-250 wheras on highspeed tracks trains run at 300 and beyond.

Paris-Lion is 100% new 300+ track ... Sevilla-Cordoba and C.Real-Madrid is 100% new 300+ track (the middle section between cordoba and C.Realis only 200kmh puting your theory to the flour) ... the freight doesn't run there for "prestige" reasons only.
Paris-Bordeus is 25% new track and the rest is run using old 200kmh track ... since the 50's /60's the route was high speed (almost all 200kmh).

High Speed means 200kmh or more ... "new track" should alow traffic at more than 250kmh "by design" ... but the rules apply the same way to running at 160kmh and more.

- segregated track
- signaling
- no level croosings
- etc ...

Well done Espana!

Well done Espana!
Not all done yet, but in 2010!
;)

I've seen a few attempts in newspapers or online at mapping the expanding network of HSR in Europe, but they are always shot down as being inaccurate. What I want to know is, can we do any better? I'm sure that we can come up with a comprehensive list of lines, then someone would have to map them accurately.

Ideally I'd like to see lines in three divisions:
- 300km/h+
- 200km/h+
- less than 200km/h

(if only to make the UK look a bit better ;))

So how about it? :)

I've seen a few attempts in newspapers or online at mapping the expanding network of HSR in Europe, but they are always shot down as being inaccurate. What I want to know is, can we do any better? I'm sure that we can come up with a comprehensive list of lines, then someone would have to map them accurately.

Ideally I'd like to see lines in three divisions:
- 300km/h+
- 200km/h+
- less than 200km/h

(if only to make the UK look a bit better ;))

So how about it? :)

This is a great idea.
The problem is identifying the the specific line segments and then mapping them. I will be on vacation for the next five days. When I return in about a week, I will post my records for the the lines which support high speed operations and then other members can correct them.

After we have agreed on the lsit of lines, hopefully some will draw a map. All the maps which I have seen are very inconsistent on the status of the lines that they identify

We need to add in 'under contruction' and 'proposed' as well.

We need to add in 'under contruction' and 'proposed' as well.

Under construction is a usfull idea but given the hundreds of start/stop and start again proposals which I have been tracking, I doubt that the cartographers could make a readable map if we included the "proposed" routes.

what would be the lower boundary of the "less than 200km/h"? 160, 180? or just anything. 160 gives you most of the London-Southampton route, plus things like Didcot-Birmingham, Bristol-Derby, the MML, etc

For the UK, 125mph (just over 200km/h) is found on the WCML, ECML and GWML. I don't know which bits aren't 125mph, though I guess none of the WCML, other than possibly the Birmingham loop (so London to Edi/Glas/Manchester), or the ECML south of Newcastle (ignoring Newcastle's 10mph approach), nor the GWML to Bristol Parkway. 300km/h is found on High Speed One between Cheriton (the Channel Tunnel portal) and St Pancras. There's also the stub end near Gravesend, which hooked it back onto the Chatham Main Line, though that's out of use, and one guesses it won't be used (though maybe for freight sometime).

That's freaky - I just came to this forum to try and find a thread I started asking the same thing a while ago: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=437226

I've started mapping high-speed lines as paths on Google Earth, which is quite fun, though only the lines from Paris to London, Cologne and Lyons are complete and accurate so far.

The map should also show dedicated HSR lines. I think the division between dedicated HSR line and shared line is the most important.

Under construction is a usfull idea but given the hundreds of start/stop and start again proposals which I have been tracking, I doubt that the cartographers could make a readable map if we included the "proposed" routes.

Yeah, maybe just u/c you're right.

So, does anybody else have any home-made efforts they want to share? Mine's pitifully incomplete at the moment but I'll upload it when it looks half decent.

I haven't made anything yet, but am willing to give the map-making a go, provided we get good data.

The first problem, it seems, is of definition. How do we choose 'high-speed' lines? By speed (200/250/300km/h) or segregation, or both? It seems that either will have exceptions, eg. the Gotthard Base Tunnel which will be 250km/h but have freight trains on.

Which countries will be on the map? I can think of these. I think we should only include completed projects or those actually under construction, not pipe-dreams or vague proposals. Perhaps someone could outline the status of each country's network?

France
Spain
(Portugal?)
Italy
(Switzerland?)
Germany
(Denmark?)
(Sweden?)
(Finland?)
(Norway?)
Netherlands
Belgium
UK

The fastest in Hungary currently is the Wien-Budapest line,which allows 160 on some segments. Other mainlines are currently upgraded to 160.
Here's a map:
The coloured lines mean what the track is designed to endure,and the numbers are what is allowed(not meant between 2 points,but on that exact location).
http://index.hu/cikkepek/0708//gazdasag/kozopv/kozop_vasut-lass.gif

I have always thought it would be great to have a map of the HSR in Europe, as it is really hard to find reliable information.

I will show you a map of the Spanish HSR network in 2020, done by the forumer zoltan if I'm not wrong.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e228/Steven_85/mapas/EspaaHSL2020.jpg?t=1195771252
Red lines will be only used for passengers, so the speed allowed will be between 260kph and 350kph.

Most of the blue lines are designed to let a similar speed, but they will be limited to 220-250kph because of the circulation of freight trains through them.

Yellow lines are not sure to be built, but they won't be over 160kph.

Nowadays we have some of the red lines already on service:
*Madrid-Córdoba-Sevilla
*Madrid-Zaragoza-Lleida-Tarragona
*Madrid-Toledo (most of the railway is shared with the HSR to Sevilla)

And others going to be opened soon:
*Madrid-Valladolid (Dec2007)
*Córdoba-Málaga (Dec2007)
*Tarragona-Barcelona (likely Mar2008)

Netherlands
Testing

Testing

Testing

:laugh: The Schiphol-Rotterdam-Breda-Antwerp line is finished, yet we're still testing. Apart from this 'completed' line, the ICE Amsterdam-Utrecht-Arnhem-Oberhausen-Frankfurt/München will be upgraded. Amsterdam-Utrecht has already the 2 extra tracks that made the ride a lot quicker, and money for Utrecht-Arnhem/Zevenaar has been commisioned by the minister just last week. Yet, the only true HSR track is the one connecting Cologne and Frankfurt in Germany.

I don't think there'll be any real HSR tracks in NL very soon.

Germany (ICE Network, only completed sections):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/ICE_Network.png/450px-ICE_Network.png

red: 300kph (dedicated tracks)
yellow: 250kph (dedicated tracks)
blue: 200-230kph (mostly shared tracks)
grey: rest of the network (<= 160kph)

and if you want to make a future map:

planned/ u/c projects:
Karlsruhe - Basel, 250kph (near Freiburg 200kph), partly u/c, finished 2012
Stuttgart - Ulm - Augsburg, 200-250kph, partly u/c, finished ?, incl "Stuttgart 21"
Kaiserslautern - Saarbrücken, 200kph (shared tracks), u/c, finished after 2010
Frankfurt - Mannheim, 300kph, planned, finished 2017 (a completely new connection in addition to the existing ones on AFAIK Germany's most congested railway corridor)

other projects:
Hannover - HSL Hamburg/Bremen, 300kph
Frankfurt - HSL Fulda/Würzburg, 300kph
Nürnberg - Erfurt - Leipzig, 300kph, partly u/c
Erfurt - HSL Fulda/Kassel, 160-200kph

A map with all tracks max speed, in France:
http://www.rff.fr/biblio_pdf/pages_fr_docref_cartes_carte1.pdf

Germany (ICE Network, only completed sections):

and if you want to make a future map:
planned/ u/c projects:
Karlsruhe - Basel, 250kph (near Freiburg 200kph), partly u/c, finished 2012
Stuttgart - Ulm - Augsburg, 200-250kph, partly u/c, finished ?, incl "Stuttgart 21"
Kaiserslautern - Saarbrücken, 200kph (shared tracks), u/c, finished after 2010
Frankfurt - Mannheim, 300kph, planned, finished 2017 (a completely new connection in addition to the existing ones on AFAIK Germany's most congested railway corridor)

other projects:
Hannover - HSL Hamburg/Bremen, 300kph
Frankfurt - HSL Fulda/Würzburg, 300kph
Nürnberg - Erfurt - Leipzig, 300kph, partly u/c
Erfurt - HSL Fulda/Kassel, 160-200kph

Why not a (Paris/London - Brussels - Liège) - Köln - Dortmund - Hannover - (Berlin) track ?

Within the Ruhr area, HSR isn't possible coz of the high population (and rail station) density. And east of Dormund the trains are allready running at 200kph or more(except the section around Bielefeld - but all trains between Hannover and Dortmund stop at Bielefeld).
Also, this corridor isn't as important that a completely new HSL would be needed.

A map with all tracks max speed, in France:
http://www.rff.fr/biblio_pdf/pages_fr_docref_cartes_carte1.pdf

How up-to-date is that? It shows LGV Est under construction, but not LGV Perpignan-Figueres...

How up-to-date is that? It shows LGV Est under construction, but not LGV Perpignan-Figueres...
On the upper left corner, it is written "1st january 2007". So I guess the next release will be available in one month... ;)

Moreover, it's not the "max speed map" but the "tracks maps", sorry. :(

The rigth one...
http://www.rff.fr/biblio_pdf/fr_docref_anx_6_3.pdf

How up-to-date is that? It shows LGV Est under construction, but not LGV Perpignan-Figueres...
Here is one
http://lgv2030.free.fr/cartes/francetgv2007.jpg

And this map that shows
- HSR Paris-Orly-Orleans-Bourges-Clermont Ferrand / Lyon
- TRANSLINE: Lyon/Clermont - Limoges - Bordeaux/Nantes - Rennes
http://lgv2030.free.fr/pictures/Lgvcentre.jpg

Here is one
http://lgv2030.free.fr/cartes/francetgv2007.jpg

That map (from the LGV2030 site) is one of the best, but it's a shame there isn't one of that quality for the whole of Europe.

This one gives a slightly wider view, but no Italian or Spanish lines:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Hgv_netz.jpg

This map of the Spanish network is pretty reliable. This will be the situation in December 2007, except the track between Tarragona and Barcelona which has been delayed

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/AVE-Diciembre2007.png/800px-AVE-Diciembre2007.png
Green: On service (most of them between 300kph-350kph)
Yellow: Under construction
Red: Projects for 2020.

How up-to-date is that? It shows LGV Est under construction, but not LGV Perpignan-Figueres...

Perpignan-Figueras is not property of SNCF, but of TP Ferro, a private company.

I've found some more, mainly from the French side of Wikipedia. They cover the same areas, but are quite accurate. Hopefully between all the different maps someone can put together a 100% accurate one.

Northeast France and border countries, showing accurately complete and u/c, though not rhine/rhone.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/LGV_Est_Map.svg/707px-LGV_Est_Map.svg.png

The red line is the LGV Est, the dotted red line being uncompleted sections; black lines are classic lines that the TGVs operate on. The caption doesn't say but I assume the dotted black lines are where LGV est TGVs will go on classic lines after opening?

Closer look at yet-to-be-complete end of LGV Est
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/92/LGV_Est-fr_with_legend.svg/800px-LGV_Est-fr_with_legend.svg.png

And the whole of France - not showing u/c lines in France, yet showing Zuid HSL.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Carte_TGV.svg/568px-Carte_TGV.svg.png

SNCF site showing map of Rhine/Rhone and going over the top with showing the possible links
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/LGVRhine-Rhone.jpg

This is quite a decent close up of Rhin-Rhone from http://www.lgvrhinrhone.com though it doesn't mpa the south section
http://www.lgvrhinrhone.com/images/photos/Carte%203%20branches%20LGV%20RR%2027%2011%2006%20site%20internet_1.jpg

This is simila to the excellent one Eomer posted on the previous page, usefully showing the projected dates actually on the mpa instead of in a key.
http://wikisara.free.fr/wikisara/images/TGV_2025.JPG

This is pretty good, from www.railteam.eu
http://www.railteam.eu/img/map_2020_en.jpg

I would add obviously the last little bit to London is now complete, also the Turin - Milan section on the italian network, but some parts of LGV est, still u/c are shown as complete.

^^In Spain, the HSL section to Málaga is going to open this December the 23rd, not in 2010.
:wink2:

^^ Likewise the link to London is open 2007, but there is an HSL shown running south from Strasbourg which doesn't exist. Also the opening date for the France-Spain LGV is now 2012.

Can anyone actually confirm the status of the line shown going from Paris to Calais (LGV Picardy)? I thought this was just talk.

The Basque Y website also has maps for 2006, 2010 and 2020:

http://www.euskalyvasca.com/en/co_experiencias.html

Can anyone actually confirm the status of the line shown going from Paris to Calais (LGV Picardy)? I thought this was just talk.It is not on the last list, and got there at a first place only because De Robien was transports minister.
Munich-Ulm is U/C and Ulm Stuttgart will kick off works in 2010. I never heard of of the Stuttgart-Basel project...

I never heard of of the Stuttgart-Basel project...

There is a project in progress to quadruple the entire line from Karlsrhue to Basel. The nominal speed for the new lines is 250 km/h but sections will be limited to 200 km/h. 8km was completed about 10 years ago and most of the line from Karlsrhue to Offenberg is now coimplete but it is only operating at 160 km/h as the signalling for higher speeds cannot been activated untill all the engines using the line are equiped. The Offenberg to Basel section might be complete by 2012 or at least 20 years after the work began.

Can anyone actually confirm the status of the line shown going from Paris to Calais (LGV Picardy)? I thought this was just talk.

This line has always been political as the Picardy region was very upset about Amien being bypasses by the LGV-nord.

If you study the existing network, the section between Vemars junction and the triangle south of Lille is rapidly becoming one of the most conjested sections of the HSL network and there will have to be an increase in capacity during the next 20-30 years. the options are tripling or quadrupling the existing line or building the LGV-picardy.

LGV-picardy would be an attractive political solution in France but it is a very poor operational solution as it only diverts the Eurostars on the Paris - London route and the TGV's to the Channel cities in France. Expanding the exisitng line would be a much more effective operational solution.

I think traveltimes would be a good indicator, for example Madrid-Sevilla is designated as a 300km/h but it only runs at that speed for about 10km, traveltime is 2h30m wich gives a median speed of close to 200km/h, far from the 250-260 km/h median that you have for example on the Paris-Lyon or the new Madrid-Barcelona. It would be confusing to map all HSR lines as similar when there in fact are a huge differances in between them.

LGV-picardy would be an attractive political solution in France but it is a very poor operational solution as it only diverts the Eurostars on the Paris - London route and the TGV's to the Channel cities in France. Expanding the exisitng line would be a much more effective operational solution.

There's a similar problem with the Paris-Lyon High-speed line, which seems to be running out of spare capacity very quickly. Recently they came up with a proposal of a second line to Lyon via central France, not as direct as the old LGV to Lyon but allowing the TGV to also reach Clermont-Ferrand and other medium size cities north of the Massif Central. Sounds more attractive than just adding another two tracks to the existing line. Unfortunately this kind of solution wouldn't work for the LGV-Picardie.

I don't recall seeing too many TGV Duplex on the LGV Nord, is that not an option for the capacity problems at first? And are SNCF still persuing the Grand Duplex?

I don't recall seeing too many TGV Duplex on the LGV Nord, is that not an option for the capacity problems at first? And are SNCF still persuing the Grand Duplex?

Not really as there are a large number of diverse destinations in northern france which do not generate enough traffic to support the Duplex options. SNCF is already combining and splitting trains at Arras to serve the smaller cites arrounf Lille.

In that case, why is LGV Picardy with some spurs not an option?

In that case, why is LGV Picardy with some spurs not an option?

The route bypasses all the large communities in the Lille region and serves only Dunkerque, Calais, Boulogne which are relatively small traffic generators when compared to the suburbs of Lille.

The Eurostar trains already carry about the same number of passengers as a pair of Duplex trains.

The Eurostar trains already carry about the same number of passengers as a pair of Duplex trains.

The ex-Eurostar trains used by SNCF on the LGV Nord carry up to 592 ("Regional" trainsets) or 794 ("Three capitals" trainsets) passengers. This is much less than a double Duplex, which has 1024 seats.

But, as you said, seating capacity doesn't seem to be the problem. If it was, SNCF could use some of the Duplex trainsets they recently ordered or still reconfigure the interiors of the trainsets that today run between Paris and the north, since the shorter distances don't require the same seat pitch as on trains to the east, south and west of France.

I guess they will increasingly run double trainsets on the LGV-Nord and separate them once they have left the line. Same with Thalys and Provence-Provence TGVs.

There is also TGV Duplex grande capacité:

http://www.entreprise-sncf.com/sncf_demain/tgvgp.html

Maybe a solution for core routes (Lille, as you say)

I've put it together as far as I can. At the moment I've only included HSL trackbeds actually constructed or u/c, without the upgraded classic lines connecting them all. I've also been cheeky and included the Lötschberg Base Tunnel as it will allow 250kph tilting trains which makes it HSL. Next step is to add in 200kph+ new and upgraded lines.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/WesternEuropeHSL.jpg

I've put it together as far as I can. At the moment I've only included HSL trackbeds actually constructed or u/c, without the upgraded classic lines connecting them all. I've also been cheeky and included the Lötschberg Base Tunnel as it will allow 250kph tilting trains which makes it HSL. Next step is to add in 200kph+ new and upgraded lines.

Good work! Anyway, some notes:
France - from LGV Rhin-Rhone is U/C only section Mulhouse to Dijon
- LGV Perpignan-Figueres (France/Spain border) is U/C

I've put it together as far as I can. At the moment I've only included HSL trackbeds actually constructed or u/c, without the upgraded classic lines connecting them all. I've also been cheeky and included the Lötschberg Base Tunnel as it will allow 250kph tilting trains which makes it HSL. Next step is to add in 200kph+ new and upgraded lines.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/WesternEuropeHSL.jpg

Nice work. Four observations:

- Cologne-Düren has been upgraded for 250 Km/h a few years ago.
- Some parts of the Basel-Karlsruhe mainline are being upgraded for 250 Km/h, but I'm not sure which ones.
- You can add the new Gotthard tunnel in Switzerland since it will allow trains to run at up to250 Km/h.
- In northern Italy construction is still going on between Milan and Novara, so the high-speed line to Turin is actually in service only between Turin and Novara.

Good map, but I think Spain lack some lines currently UC, the Galician branch up to Santiago is UC and so is the Barcelona-French border and I also think the basque Y has started. Maybe you should ask in the Spanish infrastructure subforum as they know more in detail.

Good work! Anyway, some notes:
France - from LGV Rhin-Rhone is U/C only section Mulhouse to Dijon
- LGV Perpignan-Figueres (France/Spain border) is U/C

Thanks. Ok, so I should take the north/south bit of the Rhin/Rhone route. I wondered why on all the plans I could find the route was a bit vague - I should have realised it's still at the planning stage. I knew the Perpignan - Figueres was u/c and somehow forgot!

Nice work. Four observations:

- Cologne-Düren has been upgraded for 250 Km/h a few years ago.
- Some parts of the Basel-Karlsruhe mainline are being upgraded for 250 Km/h, but I'm not sure which ones.
- You can add the new Gotthard tunnel in Switzerland since it will allow trains to run at up to250 Km/h.
- In northern Italy construction is still going on between Milan and Novara, so the high-speed line to Turin is actually in service only between Turin and Novara.

I'm in a dilemma about this one. It was my intention to add in upgraded lines next, anything over 200kph, which would include all of the Cologne - Duren and Basel - Karlsruhe (how is Karlsruhe pronounced btw?). The German lines have been upgraded to higher speed than such lines in other countries - Portugal, France, UK (sort of), Denmark have all got to about 220kph with such upgrades. The dilemma is that the German upgrades are as fast as the Direttissima in Italy, yet the colour scheme I'm using won't reflect that. I'm thinking of just putting some tags with the genereal top speed on each main route on the map for clarification - what do you think?

I didn't know about the Gotthard tunnel - thanks I will add it.

Regards the Milan - Turin route if you look closely at the map it is dotted just to the west of Milan - it just hasn't come out very well - I'll try and alter it a bit.

Good map, but I think Spain lack some lines currently UC, the Galician branch up to Santiago is UC and so is the Barcelona-French border and I also think the basque Y has started. Maybe you should ask in the Spanish infrastructure subforum as they know more in detail.

Thanks. The rate of development in Spain is quite dizzying and I did find it difficult to find out what is happening, to know it's even more than I hoped is fantastic. I shall try and get some more info from the spansih forum as you suggest.

Great work mate, keep it up! :)

Great work elfabyanos! It's hard to see maps about HSR, and yours is pretty good. Please keep it as much update as you can!

Thanks. The rate of development in Spain is quite dizzying and I did find it difficult to find out what is happening, to know it's even more than I hoped is fantastic. I shall try and get some more info from the spansih forum as you suggest.
I'll answer here for Spanish situation:

Under construction lines in your map:
- Madrid - Valladolid -> On service in 2 weeks.
- Antequera - Málaga -> On service in 2 weeks.
- Tarragona - Barcelona -> On service in Feb/Mar/Apr 2008
- Madrid - Valencia -> Planned for 2010

Under construction lines you haven't included:
- Barcelona - French border
Max speed: 350 kph. I think all stretches u/c.
- Antequera - Granada
More than 300kph. Most of it is already u/c.
- Orense - Santiago
Max speed will be 350kph. Around half of it is u/c last time I checked it.
- La Robla (León) - Pola de Lena (Asturias)
Planned for more than 300kph. Everything is already u/c.
- Basque Y (Vitoria-Bilbao-San Sebastian/French Border)
Max. speed will be around 270kph. Most of the stretch between Vitoria and Bilbao is u/c, but the strech to San Sebastian/French border is more delayed.

In 2010 we are expected to have more than 2,000 km of HSR on service.

Before 2015 the whole CMK line from Warsaw to Katowice/Cracow will be upgrated to 250km/h.
The line was build in the '70 for fast Express trains (not HSR) and freight trains. It's separated of other lines. The rails are new, but the line still need security systems and... rolling stock :), becouse now the Max. speed is 160km/h.

There is also a plan to build a HSR from Warsaw to Wrocław/Poznań, but i don't think that they will build it before 2020 ;)

I'm in a dilemma about this one. It was my intention to add in upgraded lines next, anything over 200kph, which would include all of the Cologne - Duren and Basel - Karlsruhe (how is Karlsruhe pronounced btw?). The German lines have been upgraded to higher speed than such lines in other countries - Portugal, France, UK (sort of), Denmark have all got to about 220kph with such upgrades. The dilemma is that the German upgrades are as fast as the Direttissima in Italy, yet the colour scheme I'm using won't reflect that. I'm thinking of just putting some tags with the genereal top speed on each main route on the map for clarification - what do you think?

I didn't know about the Gotthard tunnel - thanks I will add it.

Regards the Milan - Turin route if you look closely at the map it is dotted just to the west of Milan - it just hasn't come out very well - I'll try and alter it a bit.


Just use diferent colours for diferentn speeds.
Like one colour for [200-220[, another for [220-250] and other for 270+.

Then you can diferenciate between new lines and upgraded lines... maybe also using colours or diferent tipes of lines (solid for new lines and dashed for upgraded ones... for example).

Just use diferent colours for diferentn speeds.
Like one colour for [200-220[, another for [220-250] and other for 270+.

Then you can diferenciate between new lines and upgraded lines... maybe also using colours or diferent tipes of lines (solid for new lines and dashed for upgraded ones... for example).

Yeah, I'm going to keep to the colour scheme and then use slightly different hues of the same colour for different speeds.

I've got as far as I can with the upgraded lines - here it is.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/WesternEuropeHSLandUpgradelines.jpg

I haven't differentiated yet for the different speeds, also I'm not 100% confident about the WCML in the UK and the classic line speeds in France, especially the border line south of Strasbourg. I know it's at least 160kph, clarification would be great.

Thanks for the info Stifler, I will go back and add it to the map.

Castle_Bravo - are the Polish lines currently being upgraded? If they are then I shall add them as a dotted pink line.

Please let me know anything that isn't right.

Edit - I've updated the map

I'm in a dilemma about this one. It was my intention to add in upgraded lines next, anything over 200kph, which would include all of the Cologne - Duren and Basel - Karlsruhe (how is Karlsruhe pronounced btw?). The German lines have been upgraded to higher speed than such lines in other countries - Portugal, France, UK (sort of), Denmark have all got to about 220kph with such upgrades. The dilemma is that the German upgrades are as fast as the Direttissima in Italy, yet the colour scheme I'm using won't reflect that. I'm thinking of just putting some tags with the genereal top speed on each main route on the map for clarification - what do you think?

Sorry, I just realized you intended to include that distinction in your map. It's a good idea, although it might be difficult to distinguish an upgraded line from a new one in cases were new track sections are combined with conventional track sections, as between Karlsruhe (pronounced carls-roo-heh) and Basel. In other cases the trackbed of the conventional line is extended to make place for parallel new high-speed tracks.

Anyway, a few observations:

- Hannover-Würzburg, Lehrte-Berlin and Mannheim-Stuttgart are 250 Km/h high-speed lines.
- Salzburg-Vienna is being upgraded for 200 Km/h, some sections being in service already.
- There's a completely new 200 Km/h line in Switzerland between Mattstetten (near Bern) and Rothrist (near Olten).
- Zaragoza-Huesca is just an upgraded 160 Km/h line.
- Most part of the Paris-Cherbourg line has been upgraded for 200 Km/h.


Max speed: 350 kph. I think all stretches u/c.
- Antequera - Malaga

Shouldn't that be Antequera-Granada?

Shouldn't that be Antequera-Granada?
Yeah. You are absolutely right.

I will edit it now.

Thanks AR1182 - I'll take out Huesca - Zaragoza. Thanks for the other bits and pieces. I've got the Cherbourg line but on the map I've got it's 160-220 kph so I wasnt confident of putting it in. As you say it's 200kph I'll add it.

Distinguishing new and upgraded is going to be difficult - the approaches to Gare Du Nord are basically completely new but on an old route, bundled with other classic services. I'll just take a broad brush approach to give an overall impression of the European network.

elfabyanos, your map coverage of Sweden is rather poor :) Anyway:

Stockholm-Gothenburg, 200 km/h
Stockholm-Malmö/Copenhagen, 200 km/h
Gothenburg-Malmö/Copenhagen, 200 km/h
Stockholm-Gävle, 200 km/h
Stockholm-Eskilstuna, 200 km/h
Stockholm-Västerås-Örebro, 200 km/h

Nyland-Umeå (northern Sweden) finished 2010, 250 km/h
Gothenburg-Öxnered finished 2012, 250 km/h

All lines is mixed use.

Mabye a map is a good help :)

Green, 180 km/h
Blue, 200 km/h
Red, 250 km/h

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2210/2108752451_956c40c8ce.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/WesternEuropeHSLandUpgradelines.jpg

Please let me know anything that isn't right.

Awesome job elfabyanos, but please can you use km/h not kph? It's a little bugbear of mine...

Please let me know anything that isn't right.
Edit - I've updated the map

Great progress!!
some 200-250 km/h notes:
Belgium:
- HSL(LGV)2 Brussels–Liège - upgraded track 200 km/h (some new parts 300 km/h)
- HSL(LGV)3 Liège-German border - 200 km/h - 250 km/h - part is opened, part U/C
- HSL(LGV)4 Brussels-Netherland border - part upgraded track 160 km/h only, part new track 300 km/h - all U/C near completition
Poland
- Centralna Magistrala Kolejowa - app Warsaw - Katowice - 200 km/h capable

Anyway, i will be happy, if you keep not to show proposed lines on the map.

Great progress!!
some 200-250 km/h notes:
Belgium:
- HSL(LGV)2 Brussels–Liège - upgraded track 200 km/h (some new parts 300 km/h)

Leuven-Ans (near Liège) is a new line designed for 300 Km/h, Brussels-Leuven was upgraded for 200 Km/h.

- HSL(LGV)3 Liège-German border - 200 km/h - 250 km/h - part is opened, part U/C

Unfortunately no part of it has been put into service yet.

- HSL(LGV)4 Brussels-Netherland border - part upgraded track 160 km/h only, part new track 300 km/h - all U/C near completition

To be precise: Brussels-Antwerp is being upgraded for 160 Km/h, Antwerp-Dutch border under construction for 300 Km/h, as you wrote.

Mabye a map is a good help :)

Green, 180 km/h
Blue, 200 km/h
Red, 250 km/h


Thanks very much, I shall expand the map northwards! The map is a great help indeed. Again I'm amazed and pleased at the progress of other countries that I have little knowledge of. I assume the parts listed as '2010' are u/c? How about '2012'? I won't put them on until they're u/c, though I will keep the info and once the map is done I can add in the proposed routes ot it aswell.

Awesome job elfabyanos, but please can you use km/h not kph? It's a little bugbear of mine...

Certainly - on reflection it is better isn't it!? As it happens all text is up in the air anyway because inkscape has decided not to allow text, and instead crashes when I try to type it so I'm addng it later in Gimp.

Great progress!!
some 200-250 km/h notes:
Belgium:
- HSL(LGV)2 Brussels–Liège - upgraded track 200 km/h (some new parts 300 km/h)
- HSL(LGV)3 Liège-German border - 200 km/h - 250 km/h - part is opened, part U/C
- HSL(LGV)4 Brussels-Netherland border - part upgraded track 160 km/h only, part new track 300 km/h - all U/C near completition
Poland
- Centralna Magistrala Kolejowa - app Warsaw - Katowice - 200 km/h capable

Anyway, i will be happy, if you keep not to show proposed lines on the map.

Leuven-Ans (near Liège) is a new line designed for 300 Km/h, Brussels-Leuven was upgraded for 200 Km/h.
Unfortunately no part of it has been put into service yet.
To be precise: Brussels-Antwerp is being upgraded for 160 Km/h, Antwerp-Dutch border under construction for 300 Km/h, as you wrote.

Thanks for the info guys. Does anyone have any knowledge of the Dutch and Luxembourg lines?

Eventually I also plan to add in (in a thinner black line) all the routes served by high speed trains from the high speed routes - in an effort to show how wide the coverage actually is from what is really a small amount of HSL in comparison to the whole network. I have the info of all classic routes served by TGV in France, HST in the UK, and ICE in Germany - any other such bits and pieces is greatly appreciated.

More than 300kph. Most of it is already u/c.
- Orense - Santiago
Max speed will be 350kph. Around half of it is u/c last time I checked it.


Can you help me locate this line? The only Santiagos that I can find are in South America or on Spanish islands!!!??

Thanks for the info guys. Does anyone have any knowledge of the Dutch and Luxembourg lines?

The HSL-Zuid line, as you dotted it, has basically been finished. The only little detail that you got wrong is that the high speed line only runs up to Schiphol Airport; from there on the line will use conventional tracks to Amsterdam Central station, that are 130 km/h at the moment.

The reason the line isn't being used yet is due to problems with the signalling and control system and one tunnel that is being cleaned due to excessive dust. Next to that, the Thalys trains haven't been upgraded to ECTS yet, and the Italian trains that have been ordered for regional high speed trains between Brussels and Amsterdam haven't been delivered yet.

The railway company has decided to start running some sort of service using hired Angel locomotives and existing trains carriages at 160 km/h on the line until at least 2009, when the Italian AnsalaBreda trains should be ready. The Thalys should be able to use the tracks and go 300 km/h in 2008 somewhere.

All in all, it was all badly planned.

The Amsterdam - Utrecht tracks have been quadrupled and the Intercity tracks are capable of handling 200 km/h trains, and should be shown on the map. The Hanzelijn ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanzelijn click on "Nederlands" for the Dutch version with a map) is under construction and will be 200 km/h too.

There are vague plans for other tracks to be upgraded, but none of that is actually under construction.

Excellent work, by the way. I love the map. Have you thought about using a higher resolution version so you can show more detail, though? And maybe some city names?

Thanks very much, I shall expand the map northwards! The map is a great help indeed. Again I'm amazed and pleased at the progress of other countries that I have little knowledge of. I assume the parts listed as '2010' are u/c? How about '2012'? I won't put them on until they're u/c, though I will keep the info and once the map is done I can add in the proposed routes ot it aswell.

Both 2010 and 2012 is u/c
Here's info about the projects:

http://www.vv.se/bv_templates/Page____22094.aspx
http://www.botniabanan.se/default.aspx?id=2136
The Hallandsås tunnel (4 mb pdf) (http://www.banverket.se/pages/4439/The%20Hallandsas%20project_2005.pdf)

Thanks Sweek for all the info and the links. I've made adjustments, the updated version will be going on there later today. At the moment it's very much a work in progress. I do intend to have it higher resolution and have text on it to help easy recognition. I'm concentrating on getting a working version first, but also it never looks right straight away and I think a lot of fiddling will need to be done with colours to get it looking pretty aswell. (I've always loved pretty maps - all the maps so far of HSL lines, especially the ones on wikipedia, are far from pretty with clashing colours etc). Plus I've got an insane problem with Inkscape not allowing me to type text without doing some really random stuff, like crashing, or changing font size then crashing, or changing font size, zooming right out, then crashing. :nuts:

Both 2010 and 2012 is u/c
Here's info about the projects:

http://www.vv.se/bv_templates/Page____22094.aspx
http://www.botniabanan.se/default.aspx?id=2136
The Hallandsås tunnel (4 mb pdf) (http://www.banverket.se/pages/4439/The%20Hallandsas%20project_2005.pdf)

Thanks a lot, they're all going in! :cheers:

edit - I'm classing Göteborg–Trollhättan as a new build, because the line is effectively being ripped out and completely re-engineered, like a disused line that is re-used, without a period of dereliction inbetween. Is this fair? I'm not exactly sure where this line is though (help please!!)

elfabyanos, your map coverage of Sweden is rather poor :) Anyway:

Stockholm-Gothenburg, 200 km/h
Stockholm-Malmö/Copenhagen, 200 km/h
Gothenburg-Malmö/Copenhagen, 200 km/h
Stockholm-Gävle, 200 km/h
Stockholm-Eskilstuna, 200 km/h
Stockholm-Västerås-Örebro, 200 km/h

Nyland-Umeå (northern Sweden) finished 2010, 250 km/h
Gothenburg-Öxnered finished 2012, 250 km/h

All lines is mixed use.

Apart from the sections u/c, you´re totaly wrong on velocity. Only some of the sections on the mainlines Stockholm-Gothenburg/Malmo are designated for 200 km/h+, most of these lines are for 160-180 km/h. There are still plenty of level crossings on some of these sections for instance, which are not allowed when velocity on the line is higher than 160 km/h. Plus Gothenburg-Malmo still has some single track sections (incl. the notorious Hallandsaas), the same goes for Stockholm-Gävle and Stockholm - Örebro too.


Sorry but reality is not sooo fantastic as four-coloured brochures from a HS-train operator would like to tell ya.

Poland
- Centralna Magistrala Kolejowa - app Warsaw - Katowice - 200 km/h capable

Anyway, i will be happy, if you keep not to show proposed lines on the map.

Proposed/approved are not going on there yet, but I would like to add them later. Can you clarify, is this line just approved then? If so, when will construction start?

Thanks Sweek for all the info and the links. I've made adjustments, the updated version will be going on there later today. At the moment it's very much a work in progress. I do intend to have it higher resolution and have text on it to help easy recognition. I'm concentrating on getting a working version first, but also it never looks right straight away and I think a lot of fiddling will need to be done with colours to get it looking pretty aswell. (I've always loved pretty maps - all the maps so far of HSL lines, especially the ones on wikipedia, are far from pretty with clashing colours etc). Plus I've got an insane problem with Inkscape not allowing me to type text without doing some really random stuff, like crashing, or changing font size then crashing, or changing font size, zooming right out, then crashing. :nuts:



Thanks a lot, they're all going in! :cheers:

edit - I'm classing Göteborg–Trollhättan as a new build, because the line is effectively being ripped out and completely re-engineered, like a disused line that is re-used, without a period of dereliction inbetween. Is this fair? I'm not exactly sure where this line is though (help please!!)

First of all, don´t classify those lines as throughout 200 km/h+-lines. Unfortunatly, I don´t have a map over the velocity :ohno:


Btw this is a map where Göteborg - Trollhättan - Öxnered line is in the middle of this map:

http://www.banverket.se/pages/2097/vastra-gotaland-x.gif

Apart from the sections u/c, you´re totaly wrong on velocity. Only some of the sections on the mainlines Stockholm-Gothenburg/Malmo are designated for 200 km/h+, most of these lines are for 160-180 km/h. There are still plenty of level crossings on some of these sections for instance, which are not allowed when velocity on the line is higher than 160 km/h. Plus Gothenburg-Malmo still has some single track sections (incl. the notorious Hallandsaas), the same goes for Stockholm-Gävle and Stockholm - Örebro too.


Sorry but reality is not sooo fantastic as four-coloured brochures from a HS-train operator would like to tell ya.

I have speed diagrams from the Swedish rail authority Banverket. My map is drawn from it.
In Sweden, 200 km/h is allowed on high safety level crossings.

My map is a simplification :) Local restrictions is not included.

X2000 between Stockholm and Gothenburg makes the journey down to 2h45m on the 455 km long stretch, it's an average of 165 km/h - The maximum speed is 200 km/h. Without long stretches of 200 or 180 km/h that would be impossible.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/western_europe_2.jpg

Alterations inlcude:

New-build's darker blue colour to indicate new lines that aren't quite HSL, 200km/h-250km/h
UK - addition of cross country route at 125 mph.
Italy - Bologna - Verona reduced in line speed.
Holland - New to Zwolle added.
Sweden - Various changes.
France - still haven't added Cherbourg line.
Switzerland - Gottsburg base tunnel.
Austria - Upgrade added.

I'm going to need clarification on Sweden!

I'm going to need clarification on Sweden!

This is a "public" ducument from the Swedish rail authority Banverket. Yes, it's a simplification but it's at least drawn by them :)

Page 13-15, 3 mb pdf

http://banportalen.banverket.se/Banportalen/upload/1045/Fjarrtrafik_del1_20050623.pdf

I have more detailed non-public diagrams if needed.

Some details:
- The short 250 km/h stretch near Stockholm is really 250 km/h , but no trains in sweden is cleared for that speed, the same holds for the short stretch from Båstad (north of Hallandsåsen) to south of Halmstad.
-The single track through Falkenberg (West coast) is being redrawn outside the city, finished 2008. 200 km/h.
-The gemetrical standard of the new Västkustbanan is 250 km/h, but the signal system and (mabye) catenary is restricted to 200 km/h
-The two regional lines Stockholm-Västerås/Eskilstuna was bult in the late 90:ies. The geometrical standard is 250 km/h but the signal system and (mabye) catenary is restricted to 200 km/h.
- The Ostkustbanan Stockholm-Gävle has two short single track stretches, otherwise it's 200 km/h all the way. The geometrical standard is 250 km/h on Uppsala-Gävle but the signal system and (mabye) catenary is restricted to 200 km/h.
- The lines Stockholm-Gothenburg/Malmö is upgraded mainlines. The catenary is old and there is some level crossings, but still mainly 180-200 km/h with tilting trains. 25-30 % extra speed in curves.

Wonderfull work elf!:)

reading this these posts has pointed out to me that each country has different procedures and terminology. which can be very confusing. For example, in Germany the Koln to Duren route is considered a "Neubaustrecke" (a new line), the new tracks built beside the original route which was downgraded to the S-bahn. But the Duren to Aachen is considered an "Ausbaustrecke" which is a traditional line upgraded for operations at 200 km/h or faster.

The route from Karshrue to Basel is also confusing as the original double track line is being upgraded for 200+ km/h operations while at the same time a new double line is being built beside the old line. The new line is built to the standards of 250 km/h, except where it is providing an urban bypass for freight!!

The route from Strasbourg to Mulhouse has been capable of operation at at 200km/h for more than ten years but only a few of the trains were scheduled at these speeds to start with. About a year ago the hourly service to Basel was scheduled at 200 km/h and I suspect that the TGV trains to Basel are scheduled at 220 km/h.

Alterations inlcude:

New-build's darker blue colour to indicate new lines that aren't quite HSL, 200km/h-250km/h
UK - addition of cross country route at 125 mph.
Italy - Bologna - Verona reduced in line speed.
Holland - New to Zwolle added.
Sweden - Various changes.
France - still haven't added Cherbourg line.
Switzerland - Gottsburg base tunnel.
Austria - Upgrade added.

Comments:

I would suggest that the slower new lines (light blue) should be defined as 200-249 with the 250 km/p lines shown in dark blue. I am very uncomfortabel the see Hanover to Wurtzburg show in light blue!

Britain: adding the cross country route upgrades raises a whole set of issues about what percentage of the route operates at the designated speed. There are only short segments of the cross country route which realy operate at 200km/h. These issues also apply the Swedish network and upgraded routes in Spain

Holland: the new construction bypasses Den Hague

Switzerland: there a New line operating at 200+ km/h between Basel and Olten (Sorry, it is included)

Austria: The upgraded line runs from Sankt Polten to Wels (not Salzburg) and the section from Wien to Sankt Polten is a new line which will probably eventually operate at 250+ km/h but it will start out as 200+ km/h

Once again, Great work "Elf"

Can you help me locate this line? The only Santiagos that I can find are in South America or on Spanish islands!!!??

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/AVE-Decembro2007.png/800px-AVE-Decembro2007.png

yellow: U/C

Santiago de Compostela is in the north-west

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/western_europe_2.jpg

Alterations inlcude:

New-build's darker blue colour to indicate new lines that aren't quite HSL, 200km/h-250km/h
UK - addition of cross country route at 125 mph.
Italy - Bologna - Verona reduced in line speed.
Holland - New to Zwolle added.
Sweden - Various changes.
France - still haven't added Cherbourg line.
Switzerland - Gottsburg base tunnel.
Austria - Upgrade added.


You forgot Madrid-Toledo high speed line which is working presently

This is a "public" ducument from the Swedish rail authority Banverket. Yes, it's a simplification but it's at least drawn by them :)

Page 13-15, 3 mb pdf

http://banportalen.banverket.se/Banportalen/upload/1045/Fjarrtrafik_del1_20050623.pdf

I have more detailed non-public diagrams if needed.

Some details:
- The short 250 km/h stretch near Stockholm is really 250 km/h , but no trains in sweden is cleared for that speed, the same holds for the short stretch from Båstad (north of Hallandsåsen) to south of Halmstad.
-The single track through Falkenberg (West coast) is being redrawn outside the city, finished 2008. 200 km/h.
-The gemetrical standard of the new Västkustbanan is 250 km/h, but the signal system and (mabye) catenary is restricted to 200 km/h
-The two regional lines Stockholm-Västerås/Eskilstuna was bult in the late 90:ies. The geometrical standard is 250 km/h but the signal system and (mabye) catenary is restricted to 200 km/h.
- The Ostkustbanan Stockholm-Gävle has two short single track stretches, otherwise it's 200 km/h all the way. The geometrical standard is 250 km/h on Uppsala-Gävle but the signal system and (mabye) catenary is restricted to 200 km/h.
- The lines Stockholm-Gothenburg/Malmö is upgraded mainlines. The catenary is old and there is some level crossings, but still mainly 180-200 km/h with tilting trains. 25-30 % extra speed in curves.

I'm only going to list lines at their practical operatinal current speeds - it is 'economical with the truth' to list a line at a certain speed when no trains actually run at that speed, even if the alignment is technically capable. In relation to the upgraded lines having interruptions in the listed line speeds, as Grotlaufen has posted, I'm separatng out 'upgraded' from 'new' precisely because most upgraded lines do have occasional interruptions usually, probably knocking about 10% from it's effective speed in most cases. Unless there are long sections that would geographically stand out on the map I will just keep it as a solid line. What I would like to know, are the gaps in the maximum upgraded speeds on these routes in Sweden significant? Sweden will probably take me a while to get right so please have patience with me - I will be asking many questions!

Wonderfull work elf!:)
For example, in Germany the Koln to Duren route is considered a "Neubaustrecke" (a new line), the new tracks built beside the original route which was downgraded to the S-bahn. But the Duren to Aachen is considered an "Ausbaustrecke" which is a traditional line upgraded for operations at 200 km/h or faster.

Cheers mate. Ok, Koln - Duren should be changed in colour then to light blue. I had no idea Aachen to Duren had been upgraded - thanks. That means soon there will be a proper link soon between northern France (and the UK?) with just a small section of 'only' 200km/h! Excellent.

The route from Karshrue to Basel is also confusing as the original double track line is being upgraded for 200+ km/h operations while at the same time a new double line is being built beside the old line. The new line is built to the standards of 250 km/h, except where it is providing an urban bypass for freight!!

I'll have both, side by side. Question - which side is which!?

The route from Strasbourg to Mulhouse has been capable of operation at at 200km/h for more than ten years but only a few of the trains were scheduled at these speeds to start with. About a year ago the hourly service to Basel was scheduled at 200 km/h and I suspect that the TGV trains to Basel are scheduled at 220 km/h.

I've already got this on there. At the momet I'm not going to distinguish between 200 and 220 km/h, the bands are 200-249 km/h, 250-299 km/h and 300+km/h.

Comments:

I would suggest that the slower new lines (light blue) should be defined as 200-249 with the 250 km/p lines shown in dark blue. I am very uncomfortabel the see Hanover to Wurtzburg show in light blue!

According to the map on wikipedia these routes have a maximum of 250km/h. If they aren't I will downgrade them, however they are differentiated from the 300km/h lines in a slightly more navy blue, as opposed to the slower greyish blue. (The colour scheme is not finalised yet!) Do you have any links to shw the actual operational speeds?

Britain: adding the cross country route upgrades raises a whole set of issues about what percentage of the route operates at the designated speed. There are only short segments of the cross country route which realy operate at 200km/h. These issues also apply the Swedish network and upgraded routes in Spain I've only put in Birmingham to Derby for this reason, but also this touches on the issue Grotlaufen raised, and is partly te reason why I'm segregating new and rebuild, as though they may both have sections at a certain speed, the new builds tend to be more consistent. Is any of the MML cleared for 125mph? Sheffield to Doncaster?

Holland: the new construction bypasses Den Hague
Austria: The upgraded line runs from Sankt Polten to Wels (not Salzburg) and the section from Wien to Sankt Polten is a new line which will probably eventually operate at 250+ km/h but it will start out as 200+ km/h


Thanks I will correct. Another question - are you saying this part of the Austrian line is complete, and that the rest to Salzburg is still u/c? Or that it's u/c but not all the way to Salzburg, only to Wels?

You forgot Madrid-Toledo high speed line which is working presently

Thaks, I missed it completely!

I would recommend different color for background. That green is fighting with line colors. Try with bright gray.

I'm only going to list lines at their practical operatinal current speeds - it is 'economical with the truth' to list a line at a certain speed when no trains actually run at that speed, even if the alignment is technically capable.


Yes, of course. Just as an interesting fact about where Sweden is heading. There is no planned upgrade to 250 km/h in near future.


What I would like to know, are the gaps in the maximum upgraded speeds on these routes in Sweden significant? Sweden will probably take me a while to get right so please have patience with me - I will be asking many questions!


The gaps on the Båstad*-Gothenburg stretch is Falkenberg (about 10 km, u/c 2008) and Varberg (about 10 km, planned). The 20-30 km nearest Gothenburg is 160 km/h.

The gaps on Stockholm-Gävle stretch is north of Uppsala (about 5 km, planned) and east/south of Gävle (about 10 km, planned).

Just as a clarification. In Sweden, single track doesn't automaticly mean low speed. Sweden is a scarce populated country. If there is no need for double track we go for the single. That's the case with Botniabanan - a 190 km 250 km/h single track railway.

*Båstad is on the north side of Hallandsås

I would recommend different color for background. That green is fighting with line colors. Try with bright gray.

I've fiddled with the colour scheme a bit - the green was equiluminescent with the light blue. I'm going to sort out all the colour schemes a bit later on though to get it just right.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/western_europe_3.jpg

Changed the colour sheme - swopped the blue colours for 250 and above and 300 and above, makes a bit more sense with new 200 and above being darker. Added a few bits in Spain and fiddled with Germany. I'm leaving the u/c 250km/h in Sweden because, well, I am. I haven't changed anything else Sweden because I've been given a lot of info to work with and I want to get it right and be consistent with everything else. (and I can't read Swedish!) I think the background needs to be just a shade lighter still too.

That's a cracking map now, but I'd question the colour scheme. The fastest upgraded lines are in the darkest pink, so I'd expect the fastest new lines to be in the darkest blue...?

^^ True, true. I'm going to swap the pink around. Reason being my intention is to have unchanged classic lines that have high speed trains running over them (for example on the approaches to city centres) in dark grey or black, whenever I get around to adding them. So the lighter the colour the faster.

Maybe for the legend:
It looks strange 200-249 or 250-299 km/h. Normal would be 200-240 or 250-290. Speed limits with speeds from 160 and above are rounded to 10 km/h. There is no 245 km/h speed limit. There is 240 or 250.

I'd just put 200+, 250+ and 300+...

Portugal's is 235km/h, the Trent Valley line in the UK may soon be cleared for 217km/h operation. Some other parts of the UK may be cleared for 225km/h. A lot of Sweden's is technically 205km/h, though it's not timetabled to be operated regularly.

It does look odd, but it's accurate, the 'plus' idea might work.

Edit - Portugal is 220km/h, sorry.

You forgot to add the Utrecht - Amsterdam 200km/h new track that I mentioned. Great work otherwise, I'm really enjoying this. :)
I'm wondering if there is anything happening in the Eastern European countries? Maybe you don't want to complicate things like that just yet.

Yeah, sorry, people are gonna have to keep reminding me - there's too much!!! That reminds me, I still haven't done Paris -Cherbourg. I want to add as much as I can - if anyone has any info on eastern Europe? I'm especially interested in Poland.

^^ Could you provide me with a link to confirm that line Sweek?

Heh, how's your Dutch?
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_het_nieuws_-_Openbaar_Vervoer#Spoorverdubbeling_Amsterdam_.E2.80.93_Utrecht_gereed
http://www.ns.nl/servlet/Satellite?cid=1175600697687&pagename=www.ns.nl%2FArtikel%2FNieuwsArtikel&c=Artikel

I found this in English, from when construction began. Construction has finished and the line is in use now.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQQ/is_12_40/ai_68704714

About as good as my Swedish!!! Thanks for the links. To me that makes it a brand new build. Until they get the HSL sparkies in it's not a true 300km/h line IMO.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/POL_rail_4_map.svg/245px-POL_rail_4_map.svg.png

Centralna Magistrala Kolejowa (CMK) 221 km long track from Grodzisk Mazowiecki to Zawierc. Track was build in 1971-1977 as a new dedicated transit train track (for both pax and freigh traffic), with max. speed 200 km/h (and max trainweight 5000 t).

Anyway Poland railways had rolling stock only with max 120 km/h in that time. Track was used mainly for freight (in 1980 73 freight/4 pax trains daily), later more pax train appeared, now more pax trains than freight (charge for the use of railway infrastructure for CMK are two times higher than on old 20 km longer track) From 1984 140 km/h rolling stock is used, from 160 km/h.

Now, still 200 km/h is possible, but still no rolling stock for that. Easy upgrade for 250 km/h is planned.

More comments:
Hanover to Wurzburg is operated at speeds greater than 250 km/h. I have watched the speed displays at 270-280 km/h on this route.

Karlshrue to Basel is complicated as the new fast route crosses the old main line several times. I would describe the two route as braided.

Austria: Wien to Sankt Polten is under construction
Sankt Polten to Linz is not yet complete but about 60% is in operation with LBZ signaling for 200km/h
Linz to Wels was upgraded about 10 years ago but the LBZ signaling is fairly new.
Wels to Salzburg is in the national plan but construction to upgrade the line (other than regular maintenance) has not been announce yet.

Keep up the good work Elf!

One problem to beware of is the staging of upgrading traditional mainlines. It is very common for civil engineering to preceded the instalation of the signaling and the spower supply upgrades by many years. Only when all three have been completed can the line be considered for the fully upgraded.
Unforutnately each country has different reporting systems and it can be very frustrating trying to be consistent.

Thanks jkjkjk - are PKP procuring 200km/h trains for this route? If so I'll add it. I'm adding the Warsaw - Gdynia route u/c upgrade to 200km/h.

Trainman Dave - Hannover - Wurzburg is already listed as 250 - 299km/h.

Thanks for the clarification on Wels - Wien. I've fudged it, in the lack of details at which bits aren't complete I've just made it complete with a few random breaks.

As this map goes forward hopefully with other's help a cosistent method may develop for classifications of prop,app,u/c and complete just as we have for skyscrapers. Although there will always be grey areas.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/western_europe_4.jpg

Changes include:

Slightly different colour scheme - the upgrade lines now go from dark to light as the linespeed increases to match the blue scheme for new builds.
France - added the upgraded route 200km/h Paris - Cherbourg.
UK - Changed status of Doncaster - York to new build due to the new diversion away from Selby.
Poland - Added Warsar - Gdynia.
Austria - Made changes to Wels - Wien line to more accurately reflect current status.
Netherlands - Added Amsterdam - Utrecht new build 200km/h quadrupling of existing trackbed.
Spain - possibly some changes, I can't remember!

I have all the info I need for Finland's 200 - 220 km/h upgraded lines. I am looking to find some accurate information on Norway and Denmark (still haven't got to sorting Sweden out). Any info on eastern european countries greatly appreciated.

^ Madrid-Albacete-Alicante and Albacete-Valencia are being built.

It's looking great! At the moment the colours of the lines seem the wrong way round, but if you're going to add black lines for slower tracks then it should make sense. Keep it up! :) I would also say that the speed key would make more sense as 200+, 250+, 300+.

Nice work, thanks for sharing it!

The map is getting really nice, elfabyanos!

This speed map is from the Danish rail authority Bane Danmark (pdf):
http://www.bane.dk/db/filarkiv/332/Hastighed.pdf

The Öresund Bridge is 200 km/h on the Swedish side, and to Malmö.

The Euromed service on the Spanish east coast is a 220km/h upgraded route, not the in-service 300km/h route that you are showing.

^ Madrid-Albacete-Alicante and Albacete-Valencia are being built.

Thanks, what is the speed?

@ Euklidisk and 33hz, thanks for the info.

Spain

New build lines:
Madrid - Ciudad Real: 300
Ciudad Real - Córdoba: 270
Cordoba - Sevilla 250
La Sagra - Toledo: 270
Madrid - Camp de Tarragona: 350
Córdoba - Antequera : 350

New build lines U/C:
Ourense - Santiago: 350
La Robla - Pola de Lena (Variante de Pajares): 350
Madrid - Valladolid: 350
Córdoba - Málaga: 350
Camp de Tarragona - Barcelona - France border: 350
Euskal Y: 270
Olmedo - Zamora: 350
Mérida - Badajoz: 300
Antequera - Granada: 300
Xátiva - Valencia: 300
Vandellos - Camp de Tarragona: 300
La Encina - Alicante: 300
Madrid - Montilla - Albacete: 350
Montilla - Valencia: 350

Upgraded lines:
- Alcazar de San Juan - Albacete - La Encina: 200 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)
- La Encina - Xativa: 220 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)
- Badajoz - Aljuacen: 200
- Zaragoza - Tardienta: 200 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)
- Valencia - Vandellos: 220 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)


Upgraded lines U/C:
- La Coruña - Vigo: 250
- Sevilla - Cadiz: 250
- Marchena - Antequera: 250
- Alcazar de San Juan - Santa Cruz de Mudela: 250
- Valdollano - Linares: 250
- Zaragoza - Teruel: 250
- Murcia - Lorca: 250

^^ Marvelous thank you!

Great work elfabyanos, but does it really matter if a line is new or upgraded? Why not make it simpler? Just a thought.

Great work elfabyanos, but does it really matter if a line is new or upgraded? Why not make it simpler? Just a thought.

Mabye separate mixed and non-mixed with freight instead. Passenger only often has higher grades. I dont know, but it may be unusual with non mixed =<250 and mixed >250 making that devide meaningless?

Great work elfabyanos, but does it really matter if a line is new or upgraded? Why not make it simpler? Just a thought.

I believe it really does. Upgraded lines tend to have many handicaps that included flat junctions, occasional speed restrictions due to corners, stations (that usually have flat junctions and speed restrictions!), mixed traffic including stopping trains and freight, clasic signalling systems, the classic power supply (often a lower voltage or DC which hampers performance such as acceleration for multi-voltage trains like TGVs and ICE3s), often restricted clearance (so no TGV duplex) etc etc.

On the other hand new build lines tend to have grade separated junctions, high speed only traffic (though there are exceptions - especially on sections where a new line is needed but the passenger traffic is not enough to get a quick enough return on investment aswell as freight desperately needing access too, like Perpignan - Figueras), consistent line speeds with few tight corners requiring speed restrictions, modern power supply and signalling systems.

It is a lot of hard work, and at the moment the map looks complicated. I am however working on a colour scheme that wil be visually a lot more intuitive - one colour each for new and upgraded lines, with a matching key of 'darkness' for a particular speed - as in 200km/h will be almost an almost grey example of the colour (whether it's new build or upgrade), whereas 300km/h will be a vibrant colour.

Grreat work Elf:)

I hope you can keep your sanity with all this input:nuts:

Poland: the CMK was constructed with civil engineering for 250km/h but to save money there were many poorly protected level crossings. Three years ago there were still some unprotected level crossings which would prevent operations at 200km/h along the whole route. I have not found any reports which indicate that they have been replaced and the route finnaly upgraded for 250km/h.

France: You are showing the Paris to Lyon Line as 300km/h. When was this upgraded fro 300 km/h operations. When it was built the TVM siganling was limited to 270km/h and it was not upgraded during the major renovations in the early 2000's. Further there are sections of the route from from Lyon to Avignon which are limited by their curves to 270km/h

Portugal: the Lisboa to Porto route has only a very few stretches which are upgraded for 220 km/h. During the project to upgrade the lines it was discovered that the ground was to unstable in the Tagus valley to support higher speeds with the engineering design and the speed were not increased over much of the route

I my experience the only way to keep track of the actual operating speeds on each route segment is to locate the infrastructure descriptions for open access operation (mainly freight today). These documents are hard to come by and fall out of date quickly. I think that you will drive your self crazy trying to accurately distinguish the variations of the operating speeds at greater that 250km/h but if you do I will try locate these details over time

On consideration I have found that only three speed groups seem to be usefull when categorizing the routes:

160 km/h and slower
Increasing speed beyond 160 km/h reguires enhanced signaling systems for most railway administrations

161 km/h to 249 km/h
This intermediate group covers all the routes which are upgraded for used by High Speed Trains in this speed range. It also includes new tracks which have not been constructed primarily for long distance, limited stop, high speed trains.

250 km/h and faster
All routes with operating speeds of 250km/h or more have constructed specifically for High Speed running. This might change in the future but I don't know of any proposals for upgrading exisiting tracks for speeds of greater than 230 km/h (Hamburg to Berlin)

As with any classification system this is not perfect but I have foundover the last twenty years that it is fairly simple to determine which of these three categories all the railway engineering projects fall. This is important as Railway administrations tend gloss over problems and pesky little details in their press releases. One of the details commonly omitted are the actual speed limits the new route which have just been opened.

France: You are showing the Paris to Lyon Line as 300km/h. When was this upgraded fro 300 km/h operations. When it was built the TVM siganling was limited to 270km/h and it was not upgraded during the major renovations in the early 2000's. Further there are sections of the route from from Lyon to Avignon which are limited by their curves to 270km/h


The LGV PSE was definitely upgraded to TVM 430 signalling during the 2001 rebuild and is operated at 300 km/h max, although the French wikipedia says that there is still a 270 km/h limit over 100km of the route, without being more specific.

http://perso.orange.fr/florent.brisou/LGV-PSE.htm gives some info on the legs and their speeds (see Vitesses maximales at the bottom of the page).

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/florent.brisou/Lignes.htm has links to the other lines.

elfabyanos -> about the CMK line in Poland (it's in Polish, but the numbers are the same ;P) http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMK
In a new plan the whole line will be upgrated to 250km/h to 2014 (the south part a few years earlier). Next year PKP Intercity will buy new trains (they will arrive in 2010), with the Pendolino system, with max. speed= 250 :).
PS: During a test in 1994 the Italian Pendolino reached 250,1km/h which is the highest speed in central europe :)
PS2: Actualy they are upgrading bridges in the south part of the line :)
PS3: http://www.ic.rail.pl/album_cat.php?cat_id=3&sort_method=pic_time&sort_order=DESC&start=0 here are some pictures of the line.

France: You are showing the Paris to Lyon Line as 300km/h. When was this upgraded fro 300 km/h operations. When it was built the TVM siganling was limited to 270km/h and it was not upgraded during the major renovations in the early 2000's. Further there are sections of the route from from Lyon to Avignon which are limited by their curves to 270km/h

- Paris-Lyon was mostly upgraded to 300 km/h in 2001 for the oppening of LGV Med (Valence-Marseille). Between Passilly (junction to Dijon) and Macon (junction to Genève), the speed limit is still 270 km/h.
- Between Lyon and Avignon, this is 300 km/h and there is a 40 km section that allows 320 km/h.

Grreat work Elf:)

I hope you can keep your sanity with all this input:nuts:

France: You are showing the Paris to Lyon Line as 300km/h. When was this upgraded fro 300 km/h operations. When it was built the TVM siganling was limited to 270km/h and it was not upgraded during the major renovations in the early 2000's. Further there are sections of the route from from Lyon to Avignon which are limited by their curves to 270km/h

There's lots, thats for sure!!! This thread is becoming a reference source for all sorts of data from all accross europe!

Anyway, re. Paris - Lyon; In my opinion it's a new build - as in the line is designed to modern standards. What I mean by an 'upgraded' line is specifically upgraded from a classic line, upgrades of new high speed lines are not included in this definition, as there is basically no effective difference between this line and an HSL that started out at 300km/h.


With regards the categorisation, I have chosen 200km/h as a starting point because this is a generally well known threshold for what is a fast rail service, indeed this is the USA's official definition. If I were to include everything that's 160km/h and above I would have to include all sorts of random lines like Tonbridge to Ashford (linespeed 160km/h, average speed of a service on it approx 100-120km/h, not exactly awesome) which aren't exactly going to be representative of the cutting edge of high speed travel in the 21st century. I've divided it up into 50km/h ranges which to me is quite intuitive. It's going to be hard getting accurate info, and I'm going to have to specify a certain degree of inaccuracy w/respect to upgrade lines, but I'm really thankful for everyone's help - it wouldn't be possible without it. Hopefully it will all make sense in the end.

Thanks for the updates 33Hz, Castle_Bravo and eomer.

This is fantastic Elf!

It just goes to show how much we still need to do in the UK.

I'm suprised that Edinburgh - Glasgow isn't connected by a higher speed line.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/western_europe_5.jpg

Considerable changes to Spain - Zoltan (or anyone else) I would be greatlful if I could have some feedback on the accuracy if the changes (I'll get the geography correct later).

I've added a line u/c to Poland, and coloured in the sea which is THE most iimportant change so far.

Updates still in the pipeline - Sweden, Finland, bit of Italy, some more Poland, Denmark.

@Zfreeman, I thought there was a proposal to electrify an old line? In fact I thought funding had been approved by Holyrood?

Southeastern Europe is under the sea now XDD

elfabyanos
Actually the CMK is a new line (opened in 1977, ok it's one year earlier than in your limits, but it's build in an other way than "classic" lines)
BTW: Thanks for adding it ;)
PS: Anyone know when the line from Brussel to Antwerp will be build?

In Italy there is Pontebbana between Udine and Tarvisio (border with Austria), which is new line (finished in year 2000) for 200 km/h operation. Old one was dismantled.

Maybe sinking Eastern Europe was taking artistic licence a wee bit too far.

Castle_Bravo - the 1978 date isn't a deadline, but just the date of the Direttissima, which I thought was the oldest high speed route in Europe. I shall review the CMK to see if it should be regarded as a modern standard high speed line (even the direttissima stretches the definitioin in some respects).

Thanks for the update Keber, I shall add it. In fact I think there are a number of Alpine tunnel routes built or u/c that need adding to the map.

The CMK was created special for heavy freight trains and fast Intercitys. It connects the industrial part of Poland (Silesia) with the Capital-> Warsaw. It's build far away from other cities and it has only one station opened in 2006 (but actually no one use it :P). The curves are very wide (above 4 km), and now the freight trains take other routes so it sounds like a HSR line, but the technology used in the '70 was not good enough to say that it's a real HSR line, becouse they spare money, and now there are around 20 crossings with roads (they will change them into tunels), and no special security systems that are used on "real" HSR lines.
So i will call it an unfinished HSRline in use for 30 years ;P, but in a few years it would be finished :)

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/western_europe_5.jpg



Great map, Elfabyanos!

Now spot the missing link - hint: it's between Germany and Sweden.. :nuts: Well, we'll just have to plug it with a Maglev :D

Great map, Elfabyanos!

Now spot the missing link - hint: it's between Germany and Sweden.. :nuts: Well, we'll just have to plug it with a Maglev :D


They could just extend the HS line through to Denmark to link in with the Oresunde Bridge and tunnel (i think that already has space for a train line - but hadn't been built yet ???) - Can anyone confirm?

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/western_europe_6.jpg

Changes:

Yet another change to the colour scheme.
Eastern Europe has resurfaced.
UK, Italy, France, Benelux, Germany - added in classic lines served by trains that use the high speed lines for part of their journey.
Italy - added the pontybarny thing at Udine.

After deliberation I've decided to keep the CMK in Poland as a classic line.

Still to come - Norway, Denmark, Russia, Sweden fixes, Switzerland fixes, classic lines in all other countries.

more about central Europe - no more than 160 km/h
Czech Republic
- 3 main tracks upgraded to 160 km/h, more 160 km/h upgrades U/C
- CD (Czech Railways) has triple-voltage 200 km/h Pendolinos, operating now in Czech Rep., Slovakia and Austria, but nowhere at 200 km/h
-outer circuit of Velim testing circuit (13,3 km long) is cetrified on 200 km/h (half on 230 km/h)
Slovakia
- one 50 km track upgraded to 160 km/h, others upgrades U/C
Hungary
- some 160 km/h upgrades, more upgrades U/C
Slovenia
- some 160 km/h upgraded tracks operated by Pendolino
Croatia
- some 160 km/h upgrades, more upgrades U/C

They could just extend the HS line through to Denmark to link in with the Oresunde Bridge and tunnel (i think that already has space for a train line - but hadn't been built yet ???) - Can anyone confirm?

I'm pretty sure there are commuter and other trains running between Copenhagen and Malmö.

A DE-SE link would probably use the to-be-built Fehmarn Belt bridge though, in addition to Øresundsbron.

jkjkjk - will they eventually get to 200km/h? I can't add it on at the moment - but it could go on as u/c if CD are going to get it sorted. What is the problem? Is it signalling? Vehicle certification? Power suppply?

Elf, I dont like the new map with all the classic lines, they clutterup the picture of where the real HSL are. Just a personal opinion. Maybe you could grey them into the back ground with a less intense color.

Poland: What is the source for the 200+ km/h running from Warsaw to the north east. I am very sure that this line does not even achieve 160 km/h !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm pretty sure there are commuter and other trains running between Copenhagen and Malmö.

A DE-SE link would probably use the to-be-built Fehmarn Belt bridge though, in addition to Øresundsbron.

The Swedish X2000 high speed trains use this bridge but I can't veryify the speed limit on the bridge. I suspect that it is about 140 km/h

jkjkjk - will they eventually get to 200km/h? I can't add it on at the moment - but it could go on as u/c if CD are going to get it sorted. What is the problem? Is it signalling? Vehicle certification? Power suppply?

There have been reports that the The Czech republic will increase the speeds over time with a new line for 20+km south west of Prague towards Plzen as the first construction but I can find no record any finance being committed to any project other than the upgrading of the four major corridors to 160 km/h.

Anyway, re. Paris - Lyon; In my opinion it's a new build - as in the line is designed to modern standards. What I mean by an 'upgraded' line is specifically upgraded from a classic line, upgrades of new high speed lines are not included in this definition, as there is basically no effective difference between this line and an HSL that started out at 300km/h.


With regards the categorisation, I have chosen 200km/h as a starting point because this is a generally well known threshold for what is a fast rail service, indeed this is the USA's official definition. If I were to include everything that's 160km/h and above I would have to include all sorts of random lines like Tonbridge to Ashford (linespeed 160km/h, average speed of a service on it approx 100-120km/h, not exactly awesome) which aren't exactly going to be representative of the cutting edge of high speed travel in the 21st century. I've divided it up into 50km/h ranges which to me is quite intuitive. It's going to be hard getting accurate info, and I'm going to have to specify a certain degree of inaccuracy w/respect to upgrade lines, but I'm really thankful for everyone's help - it wouldn't be possible without it. Hopefully it will all make sense in the end.

Thanks for the updates 33Hz, Castle_Bravo and eomer.

I am not suggesting that you include the lines at 160 km/h but there a few lines , especialy in Denmark which operate at 180 km/h which I consider to on a par with the 200km/h+ lines.

I agree that the Paris Lyon Line is a new built HSR, even HSRs can be upgraded. My point was that the entire line from Paris to Marseile is NOT operating at 300+ km/h. There are at least two long stretches which still operate at 275+ km/h becuase of the geography of the lines

Elf
A small nit: You still have not corrected the new HSL in the Neterlands. It does not vist Den Hague

Elf
Another small nit: The short section south east of Stockholm shown as 250+ should be blue as this line was completely new construction when it was built

Elf

This is not a small nit: In Portugal I think that you are radically over stating the extent of 200+ plus running on the Lisboa - Porto line there are only a few sections at either end and may a short section in the center upgarded for 200+ running.

Elf

I have just realized that I can not distinguish the green from the black lines. The connecting lines are a real step backward

Elf

I apologise for all all my nagging comments.

This is a very worth while service which you are providing and I appaud you

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:
:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

I'm going to keep the connecting lines - again with another colour scheme change. After I've finished I can quite easily do a simplified version without them. The full version will need to be a bigger map than I'm uploading it at he moment. At the moment I'm trying to get a repository of suitable data. The interconnecting lines are quite useful at showing THE main benefit HSR has over Maglev aswell. Similarly it shows what a broad network we really have in Europe, and visually explains why some HSR lines are already near capacity even though they can have a 20-car train every 5 minutes.

Re Portugal - I haven't got any sources on this yet apart from the generalisation on wikipedia. It does need to be looked at - any sources?

Re. Sweden, thanks for the info - I've got a lot of work on Sweden!!!

Re. Poland - I can't remember!!! Again I need some sources for this country.

Poland: What is the source for the 200+ km/h running from Warsaw to the north east. I am very sure that this line does not even achieve 160 km/h !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's right.
The line from Warsaw to Gdańsk is now being upgraded for 200 km/h with tilting trains. It will be certified for only 160 km/h for non-tilting trains.
Construction works have been strated this year (2007), but they will end not sooner than 2013.

The line from Warsaw to Katowice (CMK (http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/CMK), shown as dashed on the map) is the other way around: It was built new in 1970s, with curve radii for 250 km/h. But it was used at 160 km/h - the line has only classic signalling and insufficient overhead wires.
Some 2-3 years ago part of this line was upgraded and is now allowed for 200 km/h, although we don't have rolling stock (locomotives) for that velocity, so the line is still used at 160 km/h. This upgraded part is about 60 km at the southern end of the line (out of 220 km total). The rest of the line is also slowly upgraded to 200 km/h, but there are no dates available.

So, for Poland you should draw dashed line for Gdańsk-Warszawa and from Warszawa to the south (well, make a little larger gap around Warszawa between those two lines), with solid line at the end of the southern line. :)

The Portuguese line hits 220km/h or so for a couple stretches but for a lot of it it holds around 160 km/h, if I remember correctly. During a few stretches in the north (the northern part of the 200+ km/h purple line in the map, I mean), it was only hitting like 60-70 km, hehe. But the TGV will be coming to Portugal within a few years so it will change significantly then.

Oslo has a high speed line to the airport which hits over 200km/h I do believe. Not too long of a line, though.

That's right.
The line from Warsaw to Gdańsk is now being upgraded for 200 km/h with tilting trains. It will be certified for only 160 km/h for non-tilting trains.
Construction works have been strated this year (2007), but they will end not sooner than 2013.


So far only a short section which suffers from very bad curves has been placed under a construction contact. Most to the line has not even been tendered for design services.

I have just found the report on the opening of the quadruple line to Utrecht from close to Amsterdam in Todays Railway TR#142.

The civil engineering was completed to eventually support operations at up to 200lm/h however the intial opening of the line used 1500Vdc power supply and the traditional Dutch signaling.

To support operations this report states that the signaling will have to be upgraded to ETCS Level #2 and the power supply upgraded to 25kVac to suport operational at 200km/h "if the track is suitable". These upgrades have not been funded or scheduled so this line should not be shown as green.

The info posted earlier in the thread advises that the line is capable of 200km/h under the native dutch power and signaliing, but will be upgraded to 300km/h, with new power and ETCS level 2. Can I have your source to compare? Apparently the power supply was designed to be easily compatible with uprating to 25kV, rather than having to rip it out and start again.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/western_europe_6.jpg

Changes:

Yet another change to the colour scheme.
Eastern Europe has resurfaced.
UK, Italy, France, Benelux, Germany - added in classic lines served by trains that use the high speed lines for part of their journey.
Italy - added the pontybarny thing at Udine.

After deliberation I've decided to keep the CMK in Poland as a classic line.

Still to come - Norway, Denmark, Russia, Sweden fixes, Switzerland fixes, classic lines in all other countries.
Great update!
:okay:
The best HSR map that I have seen, for the moment.
:yes:
BTW:
2 new HSR lines start service today in Spain: Madrid-Valladolid and Madrid-Málaga. Also Madrid-Barcelona line was expected to open today, but it has been delayed until March of 2008 due to technical problems.
:dunno:

The info posted earlier in the thread advises that the line is capable of 200km/h under the native dutch power and signaliing, but will be upgraded to 300km/h, with new power and ETCS level 2. Can I have your source to compare? Apparently the power supply was designed to be easily compatible with uprating to 25kV, rather than having to rip it out and start again.

Todays Railway number TR#142. This is a usually reliable source which usually reports the press releases from the railway companies verbatim. By the way, given the severity of the power supply problems in the Netherlands, I would be very surprised if any trains were allowed to draw the extra power for high speed operations from the 1500Vdc nerwork

I am sure this section of railway has been designed for higher speeds eventually. My point is simply that it is not operating at 200km/h today and it may be quite a few years before it is upgraded to 200 km/h.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/western_europe_6.jpg

Changes:

Yet another change to the colour scheme.
Eastern Europe has resurfaced.
UK, Italy, France, Benelux, Germany - added in classic lines served by trains that use the high speed lines for part of their journey.
Italy - added the pontybarny thing at Udine.

After deliberation I've decided to keep the CMK in Poland as a classic line.

Still to come - Norway, Denmark, Russia, Sweden fixes, Switzerland fixes, classic lines in all other countries.

Great job, here are a few indications on speeds performed by the TGV on the classic lines they serve :
* The Mediterranean coast line :
** Nice - south of Draguignan (the line doesn't serve this town) : 100-120
** South of Draguignan - Marseilles via Toulon : 140-160, then drops at around 100-120 when approaching Marseilles
** Nimes (end of HSR) - Perpignan :140-160 km/h,
** Perpignan to the Spanish border : 120-140.
* Tours (end of HSR) to Bordeaux : mostly upgraded to 160-220, but not entirely (slow downs in the Angoulême area)
* Tours-Dax : 140-160
* Dax-Bayonne : 120-140
* Bayonne to Spain : 100-120
* Bayonne/Tarbes/Saint Gaudens : 120-140
* Bordeaux-Toulouse-Narbonne : 140-160
* Poitiers-Niort-La Rochelle : 110-140
* Le Mans (end of HSR)-Nantes : 160-220
* Le Mans-Brest and other Brittany links : 140-160 mostly
* In eastern France, lines are often limited to 120 (except a few stretches allowing 140-160)

All of those informations come from the map published by RFF.

By the way, has work started on the HSR in Portugal ?

I can assure you there's no HSR line in Poland nor there will be any till 2015.

CMK is for 160 kmh and Warsaw-Gdansk is for 120 kmh only, it is being upgraded now but in a "standard" polish schedule which means first train going faster than 120 kmh will go there no earlier than in 10 years. Even when completed it is designed for 140/160 kmh only and 200kmh in some parts for tilt-body trains.

[QUOTE=Zibou;17269709]

* Poitiers-Niort-La Rochelle : 110-140

* In eastern France, lines are often limited to 120 (except a few stretches allowing 140-160)

All of those informations come from the map published by RFF.
QUOTE]

I have been looking at this map and I would suggets that in eastern france you need to add:

* Strasbourg - Mulhouse : 161- 220

There is an inconsistency between the RFF press announcements and this map. I believe that it is caused by the age of the map which appears to completed in 2001. (note the effectivity of the map is through 1 december 2008).

Since 2001 the route between Potiers and Niort has been upgraded for 160-220 operations acording to the RFF press releases.

Thanks for the info, I was unaware of these upgrades.
By the way, work on the new HSR between Paris (Tours) and Bordeaux is due to start in 2009 on the Tours-Angoulême section, and 2012 for the Angoulême-Bordeaux one. The line will be fully completed in 2016 and will allow a travel speed of 300-320 kph. The connection to Spain will probably not see the light of day before 2020 at best.
See : http://www.lgvsudeuropeatlantique.org/

in 2009 on the Tours-Angoulême section, and 2012 for the Angoulême-Bordeaux one

Actually, its 2009 for Angoulême-Bordeaux and 2012 for Tours-Angoulême. Don't ask me why...

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/western_europe_6.jpg

great map! :banana:

I have been looking at this map and I would suggets that in eastern france you need to add:

* Strasbourg - Mulhouse : 161- 220



It's on there, I really need to sort out the colours, you keep pointing out things that are already on there.

For elfabyanos: there's a great map about spanish classic lines, HSL on service, on works, and planned, and upgrading projects made by two spanish forumers. Here you have it:
http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07525/RFE413th.jpg
There are also a 4 MB and 10 MB map view to see it in full detail. I think this would be very useful for you. I hope you like it.
4 MB picture. (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=f1vdvxtt31m&thumb=4)
10 MB picture. (http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=fx0l1nj9fhh&thumb=4)

Update: Today

Spain

New build lines:
Madrid - Ciudad Real: 300
Ciudad Real - Córdoba: 270
Cordoba - Sevilla 250
La Sagra - Toledo: 270
Madrid - Camp de Tarragona: 350
Córdoba - Málaga : 350
Madrid - Valladolid: 350


New build lines U/C:
Ourense - Santiago: 350
La Robla - Pola de Lena (Variante de Pajares): 350
Camp de Tarragona - Barcelona - France border: 350
Euskal Y: 270
Olmedo - Zamora: 350
Mérida - Badajoz: 300
Antequera - Granada: 300
Xátiva - Valencia: 300
Vandellos - Camp de Tarragona: 300
La Encina - Alicante: 300
Madrid - Montilla - Albacete: 350
Montilla - Valencia: 350

Upgraded lines:
- Alcazar de San Juan - Albacete - La Encina: 200 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)
- La Encina - Xativa: 220 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)
- Badajoz - Aljuacen: 200
- Zaragoza - Tardienta: 200 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)
- Valencia - Vandellos: 220 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)


Upgraded lines U/C:
- La Coruña - Vigo: 250
- Sevilla - Cadiz: 250
- Marchena - Antequera: 250
- Alcazar de San Juan - Santa Cruz de Mudela: 250
- Valdollano - Jaén: 250
- Zaragoza - Teruel: 250
- Murcia - Lorca: 250

That's excellent - thanks guys.

Update: Today

Spain

New build lines:
Madrid - Ciudad Real: 300
Ciudad Real - Córdoba: 270
Cordoba - Sevilla 250
La Sagra - Toledo: 270
Madrid - Camp de Tarragona: 350
Córdoba - Málaga : 350
Madrid - Valladolid: 350


New build lines U/C:
Ourense - Santiago: 350
La Robla - Pola de Lena (Variante de Pajares): 350
Camp de Tarragona - Barcelona - France border: 350
Euskal Y: 270
Olmedo - Zamora: 350
Mérida - Badajoz: 300
Antequera - Granada: 300
Xátiva - Valencia: 300
Vandellos - Camp de Tarragona: 300
La Encina - Alicante: 300
Madrid - Montilla - Albacete: 350
Montilla - Valencia: 350

Upgraded lines:
- Alcazar de San Juan - Albacete - La Encina: 200 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)
- La Encina - Xativa: 220 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)
- Badajoz - Aljuacen: 200
- Zaragoza - Tardienta: 200 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)
- Valencia - Vandellos: 220 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)


Upgraded lines U/C:
- La Coruña - Vigo: 250
- Sevilla - Cadiz: 250
- Marchena - Antequera: 250
- Alcazar de San Juan - Santa Cruz de Mudela: 250
- Valdollano - Jaén: 250
- Zaragoza - Teruel: 250
- Murcia - Lorca: 250

It's amazing how fast railway construction (especially HSR) is going in Spain. France will get a decent one - meaning it will not only the Lille-Paris-Marseilles corridor - around 2020-2025 if fundings are secured (it took 40 years for the country to get a proper expressway network...)

A few maps for France (from RFF website, PDF files, some of them may take a while to load with a slow connection)
* http://www.rff.fr/biblio_pdf/fr_docref_anx_6_4.pdf Maximum speeds on the railway lines
* http://www.rff.fr/biblio_pdf/fr_docref_anx_6_5.pdf Electrified lines
* http://www.rff.fr/biblio_pdf/fr_docref_anx_6_14.pdf Current HSR network
* http://www.rff.fr/biblio_pdf/pages_fr_docref_cartes_carte1.pdf Current railway network

And another interesting map, still from RFF, indicating in dotted lines the planned itinerary of the
* LGV Est Second Phase, LGV to Rennes,
* LGV Rhin Rhone,
* LGV to Chambéry (this one is still on the drawing board, and is part of the Lyon-Turin rail link),
* Montpellier-Nimes bypass (expected to be opened in 2013, huge funding issues since several years, this section was originally planned to be built directly with the LGV Méditerranée in 1995-2001) and
* Bourg en Bresse - West of Nantua (upgrade of an existing railway, it will stay single-track for most of its length but will provide faster connection to Geneva by shortening the travel time of TGV from Paris)
http://www.rff.fr/biblio_pdf/rf_inv_r_carte.pdf

Update: Today

Spain

New build lines:
Madrid - Ciudad Real: 300
Ciudad Real - Córdoba: 270
Cordoba - Sevilla 250
La Sagra - Toledo: 270
Madrid - Camp de Tarragona: 350
Córdoba - Málaga : 350
Madrid - Valladolid: 350


New build lines U/C:
Ourense - Santiago: 350
La Robla - Pola de Lena (Variante de Pajares): 350
Camp de Tarragona - Barcelona - France border: 350
Euskal Y: 270
Olmedo - Zamora: 350
Mérida - Badajoz: 300
Antequera - Granada: 300
Xátiva - Valencia: 300
Vandellos - Camp de Tarragona: 300
La Encina - Alicante: 300
Madrid - Montilla - Albacete: 350
Montilla - Valencia: 350

Upgraded lines:
- Alcazar de San Juan - Albacete - La Encina: 200 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)
- La Encina - Xativa: 220 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)
- Badajoz - Aljuacen: 200
- Zaragoza - Tardienta: 200 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)
- Valencia - Vandellos: 220 (in the future 250 with ERTMS)


Upgraded lines U/C:
- La Coruña - Vigo: 250
- Sevilla - Cadiz: 250
- Marchena - Antequera: 250
- Alcazar de San Juan - Santa Cruz de Mudela: 250
- Valdollano - Jaén: 250
- Zaragoza - Teruel: 250
- Murcia - Lorca: 250

this is amazing... spain is making extreme infrastructural progress.... congrats!

Yes, Spain is really amazing in this discipline!

@ Elfabyanos
It might be a small issue, but to make the map consistent, shouldn't the high speed parts on the Swedish network be connected by black lines? And in this case, there should also be a black line to Copenhagen since the X2000 crosses over the bridge between Sweden and Denmark.

There will probably be a lot of black lines in the map soon. I'd love to see two versions of the map - one with and one without the black lines. But it can wait till the map is finished.

^^ Sweden is going to get a complete overhaul (eventually). Do you have any further info about Denmark (of which I currently have none!!!)?

Ok, fine! And once again thank you for doing af great job elfabyanos and everyone else in here who has contributed to the map.

According to the map below (sorry in Danish only), the maximum speed in Denmark is 180 km/h. So no reason wasting your time doing too much research on Denmark :D

http://www.bane.dk/db/filarkiv/133/hastighed.gif

There are some plans of building a new high speed connection to Rødby where the coming bridge to Germany will originate. But there's no final decision yet. And I don't know whether that connection might be 200 km/h or perhaps even more.

Happy new year everyone!! :cheers:

Great job elfabyanos :okay:

One small correction:The Lötschberg Tunnel in Switzerland is in full service since the start of December.

About the map;

In the Netherlands you can see a blue dotted line, that's true. The other 2 lines to the south and southeast do carry high speed rail services, but are limited to 140km/h.

I can't remember if its already been mentioned but there's also the airport train in Oslo which runs at a speed of up to 210 km/h: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flytoget

Elfabyanos, are you still hungover from New Year? :lol: Get back to work! ;) We need you back.

BTW the Lötschbergtunnel is open since 9th of December.

^^^ I believe I've added that but haven't put it up.

I can't remember if its already been mentioned but there's also the airport train in Oslo which runs at a speed of up to 210 km/h: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flytoget

Elfabyanos, are you still hungover from New Year? :lol: Get back to work! ;) We need you back.


Hehe, I'm glad there's still an interest! I've been well busy, before Christmas I was ill a lot which gave me time to do it. I've done a small update I'll try and upload later. To be honest I'm just scared of tackling Sweden! I've got too much stuff to go through!

I hope u like it
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2002/euro2020fv0.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/2002/euro2020fv0.4bbc409300.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=527&i=euro2020fv0.png)

Red lines are new high speed lines able for speeds +250 km/h in year 2010
Green lineas will be the same but in year 2020

Light blue lines are new built or uprgraded lines able for speeds between 180 and 250 km/h in 2010
Dark blue lines will be yhe same in 2020

Blue (light and dark) lines will be generally upgraded lines but there are exceptions. Iberian lines will be changed to UIC gauge

^^^^

Good map, thanks for your work :) The arrive of high speed line to Santander is still under discussion (from Valladolid or from Bilbao)

Do you have any info about the lines from Bern go Geneva or Zurich to Munich?
I've never heard of them before.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/4585/linhasaltavelocidadeporxm9.jpg

Portuguese High Speed Network

Yellow/Orange = proposed TGV network (

Yellow lines = Environmental Inpact studies completed , public consultancy finished , already on the move to be built.
(note: notice the yellow line connecting both southern red lines ... its a 20km "new" line already under construction connecting two separated "upgraded" lines ... the 3 sections are built as to allow 250kmh running while currently operated at 200/220kmh)

Orange lines = undes EIS or public consultancy ...

Orange dots = proposed lines , under various study phases

Red = "Upgraded" lines of at least 200kmh (more than 400km of track)
^^ most are limited as 220kmh decause of comercial exploration maximization only ...
try to cope +2000ton. coal trains with +220kmh fast trains and regional "stopper" passenger trains :lol:

Blue = main lines < 160kmh (more than 1400km of track)
^^ some stretches are in fact limited to 160kmh ... but most are at standard 140kmh (like the missing parts of the main line Faro-Lisboa-Porto-Braga) and some branches at 100/120kmh ... expected to be continualy upgraded in the near future

Besides the "new" HighSpeed lines (more than 600km built from scratch to 300/360(*)kmh running already decided ... more lines under study) there will be "atleast" some 300km of "new" dedicated freight lines

Some major engeniering works (like a 8/10km "dual" bridge over the Tagus river with 4 tracks + 3+3 highway) are under way ... another two bridges in the borders with spain (over the "miño" near Valença/Tuy and over the "Guadiana" near VilaRealS.Antonio/Ayamonte) :cheers:

sidenote: the basic "new" TGV network will be up and running by 2010/2013 ... the dotted aditions probably by 2015/2017 ... the north-south "upgraded" line is still under engenyering works (some 200km more will be upgraded in the next 2/3 years to allow 160/220kmh running)

sidenote2: some of the "upgraded" tracks are at 220kmh for "pendular" trains only (other trains run at 160/190kmh speeds) ... other "upgraded" stretches of track are in fact NEW TRACKS built to 250/300kmh standards but limited to 220kmh by ANY train fast enough to use them. :)

sidenote3: IC trains with 5600 class locomotives and corail coaches are branded T200 (max. speed 200kmh) in northern line nowadays .. .and we have the Fiat Alfa Pendular wich link the +700km between Braga and Faro a couple of times every day in hourly(half hourly at peak times) runs.
^^actualy no train runs the hole lenght ... as services are Lisboa-Porto-Braga and Faro-Lisboa-Porto and Lisboa-Porto

just for clarification of this mess:

Aproximately how Portuguese Railway Netwoek will look like in 2020 or so:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6773/linhasaltavelocidadeporcx0.jpg
^^ some of the lines will be operated at only 160/220kmh for economic reasons .... mainly due to there being much more freight than rapid passenger services in some areas.

Elf

This is not a small nit: In Portugal I think that you are radically over stating the extent of 200+ plus running on the Lisboa - Porto line there are only a few sections at either end and may a short section in the center upgarded for 200+ running.


Re Portugal - I haven't got any sources on this yet apart from the generalisation on wikipedia. It does need to be looked at - any sources?


The Portuguese line hits 220km/h or so for a couple stretches but for a lot of it it holds around 160 km/h, if I remember correctly. During a few stretches in the north (the northern part of the 200+ km/h purple line in the map, I mean), it was only hitting like 60-70 km, hehe. But the TGV will be coming to Portugal within a few years so it will change significantly then.

Oslo has a high speed line to the airport which hits over 200km/h I do believe. Not too long of a line, though.

About portuguese North line:
There are about 220km of line already fully upgraded to 200/220kmh ... some major engeneering works are underway (like de cut and cover tunnel at Espinho , quadruplication v.f.xira-azambuja , etc) ... then somewhere in the middle of this year(or next) there will be the upgrade of the remaining southern section (about 50km long) ... and the rest of the line "upgrade" work (basicaly the urban acesses to porto , coimbra and VFXira) will be integrated in the TGV program (quadruplication will put 2 new TGV/"mixed trafic" lines and the current 2 tracks will remain for freight and urban trains. :cheers:
^^ Acording to UCI these "urban access corridors" at 140kmh count as being part of the HSL because they are small and localized. :lol:

Portuguese South Line:

There are currently 2 sectionsof aproximately 60km each at 200/220kmh ... and a 20km section is underconstruction in between

The remaining 200+ sections are at Porto-Braga and a renewed 25km stretch near Evora (forgot to put this 25km stretch into the previous post), :cheers:

Sotavento, to be honest I don't see how it is possible that so much is 200+? Virtually the only time we hit 220 (actually hit 223) going between Lisbon and Porto (which we did twice on the train) was just a bit north of Lisbon. The rest of the time it was 160ish with plenty of 60-70ish a bit more toward Porto.

Sotavento, to be honest I don't see how it is possible that so much is 200+? Virtually the only time we hit 220 (actually hit 223) going between Lisbon and Porto (which we did twice on the train) was just a bit north of Lisbon. The rest of the time it was 160ish with plenty of 60-70ish a bit more toward Porto.

^^ If you are remembering hitting 223 it certainly shouldn't be in the stetch a little bit nort of Lisbon (it's a pure 200kmh zone) ... and the funny part is just precisely that ... THE 200/220kmh zones shorten travel times imensely.

Every 40/60km o high speed track only takes 10/15 minutes to travell thru instead of the previous 30/40 it took when it was 120/140kmh track ... and precisely on the high speed stretches you DONT see that much ... they pass fast enough ... lets see:

Porto-Ovar is slow JAMMED track ... the next stop is in the middle of the 220kmh zone and you get a huge time given ... ("desdobramento" <- in peak times they sent extra trains ahead of the regular scheduled train .. .and these make the hole Porto/Gaia-Lisboa without stops ... these gain a lot of minutes but suffer from the same "getting yellow signals the hole voyage" simpthoms) next you get to go to Coimbra and another 30/40km of slow travell ... and next you get to do the rest of the voyage without stops ... as most of it (2/3) is done at 200/220kmh you only notice the slow part as it takes more than half the travell time. :ohno:

It's usual to see some 227/228 steadily for 5/10 minutes in those journeys ... ad this while the pendulations systems travel the hole course right-left-right-left for the entire highspeed zone . :cheers:

And you are completely ignoring the fact that HALF the high speed zones are south of Tejo. :lol:

A compilation of 2003 showing some works in progress at that time:

A warning ... Don't be fooled by the seemingly slow speeds as it's a crappy video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PV-dUD2z-qM

And as you can see pendulation doesn't serve only for high speed:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZqHd5wOwF3w

:ohno:

And as a coment to your comment I should add that last time I traveled on GNER IC225 we were "slow running" most of the time ... FGW HST service is run at a pace ... and Virgin Pendulinos Rock when pusheb in some backwash secundary line behind a diesel thunderbird ... and lastly ... last time I traveled in a AVE100 train we did the entire codroba-sevilla at less than 200kmh ... and we stopped some 10 tines along the way ... network problems are always arround somewhere. :lol:

If I remember correctly one of the times we hit 223 was when I could see the Vasco da Gama bridge outside? I might be mistaken though.

Guys, guys, guys....! It's km/h (kilometres per hour), not "kmh" (kilometre hours)...

Small update (I'm getting there) and no, I still haven't understood Sweden yet so I've lopped it off for the time being (sorry Sweden). Loads still not updated. Tell if the new colour scheme is any good. :)

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/WesternEurope_8.jpg

^^ the lines to Malaga and Barcelona have been recently finished :)

Thank you for the new color scheme, :):)
It works much better.

I still have a number of nits which I will document in a few days


Thank You again

^^ There's so much wrong with it!!! We'll get there in the end.

Cheers Dinivan, I didn't know the Malaga line was open, I bet someone said it on the previous pages though. Re Barcelona I'm just being anal because services don't start this week :)

Not sure what the criteria for the grey lines in the UK is, but you are missing major intercity lines between Reading and Taunton, Leeds and Manchester, London and Norwich and London and Brighton. This former 3 all carry IC-type services and the latter has expresses of similar type to the London to Bournemouth line, so should also be there. Also there is a branch from the ECML to Cambridge which should be there.

Also what about Ireland's classic lines?

Cheers Dinivan, I didn't know the Malaga line was open, I bet someone said it on the previous pages though. Re Barcelona I'm just being anal because services don't start this week :)
ok ok! :P BTW, Geneva is connected to the rest of the Swiss system, I dunno why it isn't painted in grey.
Anyway, thanks for the map! you're doing a great job hehe

Not sure what the criteria for the grey lines in the UK is, but you are missing major intercity lines between Reading and Taunton, Leeds and Manchester, London and Norwich and London and Brighton. This former 3 all carry IC-type services and the latter has expresses of similar type to the London to Bournemouth line, so should also be there. Also there is a branch from the ECML to Cambridge which should be there.

Also what about Ireland's classic lines?

The criteria for the grey lines is that they are served by high speed trains that run at high speed on the high speed lines drawn, so in effect it's just a map of the high speed lines' train services. Alas Leed/Manchester doesn't therefore qualify. However re the Greaqt Western branch I just forgot!!! I only realised after doing the UK that HSTs used the reading-taunton line (even though the first train book I ever read was about the HST!!! :ohno: ). Brighton could have been included last year but I now believe the crosscountry Voyagers no longer serve us since Arriva took over. But, they still serve Bournemouth so I'll add that in too. :cheers:


ok ok! :P BTW, Geneva is connected to the rest of the Swiss system, I dunno why it isn't painted in grey.
Anyway, thanks for the map! you're doing a great job hehe

Unfortunately due to the CERN facility all connections between Geneva and the rest of Switzerland have been cut at a quantum level. Or maybe it's my mistake!!!

I think the new line which join Seville and Antequera(Málaga) is a new line for speeds around 250+, not just and upgraded track. It's being built in UIC gauge following another different route from the previous railway line. Isn't it? Just asking... xD. elfabyanos, one more question, are you going to put all the other ALVIA services in Spain following the criteria for grey lines?

^^ Answer yes if someone could get me the info - I've found no maps showing the full routes of each service for Spain. Re Sevilla and Antequera I'll change that, looking at Wikimapia it does seem to be a new line beside the old one, with bypasses for some towns?

Then I will tell you the ALVIA routes which go through conventional (iberic gauge) and high speed lines. Of course these trains can change their gauge in a matter of seconds.

Alicante - Albacete - Madrid - Segovia - Valladolid - Palencia - Santander

Alicante - Albacete - Madrid - Segovia - Valladolid - Palencia - León - Oviedo - Gijón

Madrid - Segocia - Valladolid - Burgos - Bilbao

Madrid - Segovia - Valladolid - Burgos - Vitoria - San Sebastian - Irún

BTW, congrats for your work. It's awesome and extrmely appreciated.

Stifler - I've added grey lines in to represent these services. Can you clarify for me (if you know) these Alvia services are operated by 200km/h loco hauled and series 100 tilting trains is that correct? Or were the loco hauled rebranded to something else? If so, I need the loco hauled routes as well because if they are 200km/h they qualify for status on the map. Also north of Madrid (or in fact anywhere) does Alvia operate on the High Speed Line or do they go parallel on a classic line? I've seen vids on Youtube where the series 100s take the High Speed Line but not sure about the loco hauled or whether this was on this route (the series 100 on the same track as an s-100, which means it's the Madrid-Seville/Malaga line correct?)

Sotavento - I want to sort out Portugal along the lines of the map you posted previously, but as there have been challenges to the information I would be really grateful if you could provide some sources for reference. Not only is this thread about producing this map but it's also turned into quite a good resource for supporting data.

The criteria for the grey lines is that they are served by high speed trains that run at high speed on the high speed lines drawn, so in effect it's just a map of the high speed lines' train services. Alas Leed/Manchester doesn't therefore qualify. However re the Greaqt Western branch I just forgot!!! I only realised after doing the UK that HSTs used the reading-taunton line (even though the first train book I ever read was about the HST!!! :ohno: ). Brighton could have been included last year but I now believe the crosscountry Voyagers no longer serve us since Arriva took over. But, they still serve Bournemouth so I'll add that in too. :cheers:


I've just checked on National Rail Enquiries and Cross Country do still serve Reading to Gatwick Airport (via Guildford and Redhill) and Brighton (via Kensington, East Croydon, Gatwick and Haywards Heath) with one or two trains a day.

Also:

-The GWML branch to Torquay and Paignton is served by occasional FGW HSTs direct from London.

-There are direct NXEC ECML services between London and Inverness, routed via Edinburgh, Falkirk, Stirling, Perth and Aviemore.

-NXEC serve Bradford, there should be a short branch of grey from Leeds.

-Cross Country trains operate a direct Birmingham to Glasgow service via Leeds. This goes via Derby, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Westfield, Leeds, then north east to join the ECML at York to continue via Newcastle, Edinburgh and Glasgow.

-East Midlands trains operate direct London to Leeds HSTs via Sheffield and Doncaster and direct London to York Meridians also via Sheffield and Doncaster, thereby allowing the whole Midland Mainline route to be included.

-The loop of the WCML through Northampton sees Virgin Pendolino services.

-The last few miles into Manchester are surely not 200km/h? (I could be wrong)

-Perhaps dashed grey lines in Kent where the Javelin will go next year?

-Don't know if diversion routes count, but GNER/NXEC HSTs have been routed by the Settle and Carlisle before and soon Cross Country will be routed via Basingstoke-Salisbury-Southampton while work is done on the Southampton tunnel.

Here's the next update. It's a GIF now, hopefully that'll give better distinction of lines that are similar brightness to the background. Added: Geneva - rest of Switzerland. All of Switzerland has been re-jigged - the upgrade line now goes from where it goes rather than somewhere else where it was before (does that make sense?) Spain - grey lines added, status changed on a few sections. I've changed the Direttisima to 250-upgrading-to-300, on the Railway Technology site it says it's being upgraded with change in power to AC and curve alterations.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/WesternEurope13.gif

-The GWML branch to Torquay and Paignton is served by occasional FGW HSTs direct from London.

-There are direct NXEC ECML services between London and Inverness, routed via Edinburgh, Falkirk, Stirling, Perth and Aviemore.

-NXEC serve Bradford, there should be a short branch of grey from Leeds.

-Cross Country trains operate a direct Birmingham to Glasgow service via Leeds. This goes via Derby, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Westfield, Leeds, then north east to join the ECML at York to continue via Newcastle, Edinburgh and Glasgow.

-East Midlands trains operate direct London to Leeds HSTs via Sheffield and Doncaster and direct London to York Meridians also via Sheffield and Doncaster, thereby allowing the whole Midland Mainline route to be included.

-The loop of the WCML through Northampton sees Virgin Pendolino services.

Cool, I didn't realise, will add.

-The last few miles into Manchester are surely not 200km/h? (I could be wrong)

I'm not sure either - can anyone clarify?

-Perhaps dashed grey lines in Kent where the Javelin will go next year?

Good idea.

I won't include diversionary route at the moment, presuming they don't serve new stations on the alternative routes it might just make loads of work if I had to do this all accross Europe, and undo it again later!!!

Re. XC to Brighton, that's great news - I might even go and take a photo of one!

^^ Just looked at the timetable for East Midland Trains, I can see the 3 Leeds - London services (in direct competition with NXEC - how exciting!!) but I can't see the York service? The Brighton XC is with us until May at least. I have a sorry feeling they will then discontinue it :(

^^ Just looked at the timetable for East Midland Trains, I can see the 3 Leeds - London services (in direct competition with NXEC - how exciting!!) but I can't see the York service? The Brighton XC is with us until May at least. I have a sorry feeling they will then discontinue it :(

Saturdays

London d 6:20 - York a 10:16
York d 17:40 - London a 21:52

Sundays

York d 16:40 - London a 21:37 (d 17:25 from 30th March)

^^ I would only check monday to fridays wouldn't I!!!!

It is not sure that the Direttissima will be converted to 25 kV.

Part of this line allow 300 km/h, but not the whole line.

^^ This is from http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/italy/

The Italian high-speed era began with the 252km (157-mile) Rome-Florence 'Direttissima', the first dedicated high-speed line in Europe when opened in 1978. However, with a decision to change the system from the Italian electrification standard of 3,000V dc and go for higher speeds, this pioneering line has required heavy upgrading for 300km/h (186mph) operation.

However, even the Italian wikipedia has little information to back this up. I've sent an email to the website to see if they have any further information. They seem quite reputable as they're more industry based rather than enthusiast based.

elfabyanos, you forgot in your new version that Málaga line is on service since the 24th of December. I think someone have already told you.
Great update, by the way

^^ Damn I knew I forgot something. I did all the updates then the computer crashed. I forgot it the second time around sorry!

Turkey and Russia also constructs high speed lines

Hi. A few more corrections. I've reverted the direttissima until I find out any more information. It would be exciting for it to be converted. Otherwise, will the AGV be running over this stretch dual voltage?

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q30/elfabyanos/WesternEurope14.gif