Aviation-Greek Airline companies [Archive] - Page 3

skyduster

August 1st, 2010, 09:43 AM

There isn't much talk of the OA-A3 merger...I cannot believe they think it is a good idea to retain the Olympic name wholly for the new, merged airline. Aegean have worked so hard to build the reputation they have today with a multitude of awards and now their accession to Star Alliance. Why would you throw this all away? Surely there is a competitive advantage in retaining the Aegean brand over the Olympic one? What about a composite name like Olympic Aegean or something?

The reality is, no one is going to look at Olympic Air and discard its (Olympic Airlines) old reputation, no matter how good of an airline it now claims to be. Either rename or completely re-brand, not just a half ass rebrand like MIA did when they first took control of OA (removing the word 'line' from the logo and making it read Olympic Air does not constitute much of a rebrand to me). The situation calls for a completely new/fresh logo, colour scheme etc to really show that the airline has moved on from its dark ages. Otherwise the average, ignorant consumer would not think twice about a change in management from the airline.

Those are exactly my sentiments if you back a few pages. It makes absolutely no sense to choose the Olympic name over Aegean, and MIG officials have themselves admitted that market research has produced poor results for the Olympic brand. Why are they keeping the Olympic brand then? Aegean already has a solid brand, solid advertising campaign, solid reputation. With the Olympic name, they acknowledge the brand has a perception problem, and they're hoping to turn that around (which will take time), instead of keeping the Aegean name which has no perception problem, and already enjoys a solid reputation. Very illogical business move which -I'm afraid- caters to the misguided nostalgic sentiment for Olympic that exists in influential segments of Greek society.

Well there is no clear decision that am am aware of at least, rumors for a combined name also existed, but in any case that airline will still have as main target Greek customers.

And if this is truly the case, it's very a misguided branding strategy on the part of MIG and Aegean.

The thing is, that A3/OA already has Greek customers...it doesn't need to win them over. Both are well-known brands to Greek consumers by now. Yes, Olympic is the nostalgic legacy carrier (as much as Greeks used to complain about the airline in the 1990s and early 2000s), but Aegean now flies more Greek passengers than Olympic. Aegean doesn't need to win over the domestic market, it already has them. What Aegean needs is to appeal to non-Greek consumers, and Olympic won't do it. I have to say, I'm impressed with the new livery, but I'm not convinced this can be built into a successful brand.

I would really hate for the Aegean brand to die; it took years to build this great brand. And for this reason, I'm now hoping that the European Commission does not approve the merger. Aegean is going places: the airline joined Star Alliance and added several new European and Middle Eastern destinations...this is the best chance ATH has at becoming an important medium-sized hub (similar to ZRH or CPH), and perhaps adding a new terminal (and more jobs!).

And as we're on the topic of the European Commission: I'm not surprised that the commission has concerns for the merger, as there is far too much overlap between A3 and OA routes to allow this merger.

Grk101

August 1st, 2010, 11:19 AM

MIG officials have themselves admitted that market research has produced poor results for the Olympic brand. Why are they keeping the Olympic brand then? Aegean already has a solid brand, solid advertising campaign, solid reputation.

That same study also says that the Olympic brand is the "the most recognizable Greek brand around the world", despite it's problems. You are right. Aegean has already won over the domestic perception. What they want now is to win over the international perception. And as that survey found, the Olympic brand is far more recognizable around the world, despite it's baggage. The same article also stated that the Olympic brand has seen a tremendous turn around domestically with in a few short months.

And if this is truly the case, it's very a misguided branding strategy on the part of MIG and Aegean.

It was announced in the press releases (see here: http://en.aegeanair.com/news.aspx?newsItem=748) that the new airline would indeed carry the Olympic brand only. The Aegean and Olympic brands will be used side-by-side during a transition period, but after that the airline will turn into Olympic Air. I think they plan to still keep the Aegean brand for charter flights though. So it will not die out completely. By the way, on a side note, the Vassilakis Group (A3) will be the ones running the show post merger. (Main shareholders)

And for this reason, I'm now hoping that the European Commission does not approve the merger.

There is fear that if it does not go through, one of the two will end up closing. And when all is said and done, the surviving one will be in bad financial shape. When the new OA was launched, A3 started to feel the pressure. They are both competing for the same market, offering a very similar product, resulting in price wars. Both airlines reported losses because of this. Instead of working to compete with other EU airlines, (and also expand) they are forced to compete with each other. This was the main reason for the merger. And this is one of the main reason they will probably use to get the EU to approve the merger. Aegean even mentioned something similar in their first quarter results, stating that the airline needs to take actions to address the "current crisis".

Already since the merger was announced, the two airlines have started to work together and sync flight schedules as to not directly compete on some routes. (And as mentioned in a previous post, they may run into trouble for "working together" before the merger is approved)

That being said, I agree with Pilotos that they will need to give up domestic routes to get this merger to pass. Perhaps even agree to freeze domestic prices for a year. Some Greek media reports that their only hope is if a new low cost carrier sets up shop in Greece to offer domestic competition. Athens Airways sadly does not look like it is doing too well. They were already stripped of their Public Service Routes due to various problems. I know Hellenic Imperial also planned to offer domestic routes as part of their "master plan", but it seems their business plan is failing. With in a few short weeks after launch, they have already suspended their South Africa route. Plus they have not even acquired any short haul airplanes yet to launch these routes.

Grk101

August 2nd, 2010, 12:04 PM

An interesting new article which shows Aegean's perspective on things:

http://atwonline.com/airline-finance-data/article/greek-success-story-0729

Greek Success Story
By Cathy Buyck | August 1, 2010

Perhaps it was inevitable, a reflection of the country’s ancient love of theatre and public spectacle. Yet it would have been a lot more simple and straightforward if the Greek government had just selected Aegean Airlines to purchase its perennially loss-making flag carrier Olympic Airlines in early 2009. Instead, it rejected Aegean’s bid in favor of choosing Marfin Investment Group to take over the flailing airline. This year, in a surprise turn, Marfin agreed to merge Olympic with Aegean.

“No comment,” laughs Dimitris Gerogiannis, Aegean’s MD, when reminded of the convoluted circumstances of the transaction. “Greeks learn the hard way. We will now focus on making the merger work,” he says, emphasizing, “The problem is not the merger. Not merging would be the problem. This is a viability issue.” The European Commission set a provisional deadline of July 30 to determine whether to clear the transaction or open a Phase 1 investigation.

Aegean, which launched domestic services in 1999 with a pair of new Avro RJ100s, became Greece’s leading airline in 2008 when it carried 6 million passengers—surpassing Olympic, which carried 5.3 million—and attained a 58% share of the domestic market. Despite the global downturn that began that year, it carried 6.6 million passengers in 2009 and managed to earn €23 million ($31.1 million) on revenue of €622.7 million (see table, p. 26).

The surprise tie-up with Olympic, is driven by “economic and business realities,” Gerogiannis tells ATW, acknowledging that the country’s escalating economic crisis and the government’s austerity measures affecting consumer spending were a “catalyst” in the talks. “It was already clear in December that Greece was in trouble,” he says, declining to identify which side initiated merger discussions. “When shareholders on both sides are successful and capable people it’s not a matter of who has taken the initiative. The initiative has been taken owing to the externalities of the market and the discussions are a natural conclusion.”

In announcing the merger last February, Aegean said the deal is intended to create “a national airline champion with enlarged presence in the European market as well as seamless coverage of even the most remote islands of our country.” The new company eventually will take the Olympic name and will be listed on the Athens Exchange. Olympic Handling and Olympic Engineering will be wholly owned subsidiaries. Aegean majority investor Vassilakis Group and Marfin will be equal partners in the venture, while Aegean’s other five founding shareholders also will participate thus giving Aegean a majority in the merged company.

“Consolidation is the name of the game in the European airline industry. You need scale to survive in this very competitive environment,” he continues. “Greece has only 11 million inhabitants and is located on the periphery of Europe. We are not in the middle of a rich catchment area, quite the contrary, yet we have two full-service carriers. This is impossible to sustain. As a matter of fact, most countries in Europe don’t have more than one major full-service carrier. Even Germany and France, with a much larger population and a GDP that is seven to ten times higher than Greece’s, only have one genuine FSC. And when you look at counterparts in similar-sized countries to Greece, e.g., TAP Portugal, Austrian Airlines, Finnair, their revenue is more than double the combined revenue of Aegean and Olympic.”

Focused Approach
Aegean, which became Star Alliance’s 28th member on June 30, operates some 150 daily flights on a network spanning 26 domestic and 28 international short/medium-haul routes with a fleet of 30 aircraft comprising 22 new A320/A321s out of a total order for 27, six RJ100s and two ATR 72-500s operated by SwiftAir. Last year it returned four 737s to their lessors and took delivery of six A320s and two A321s. Two RJs are in the process of being redelivered to their owner. Five A320s are dedicated to charter operations. Average aircraft age is 3.5 years, down from 10 years in 2006.

Its main base is at Athens International with secondary hubs at Thessaloniki, Greece’s second-largest city, and Heraklion. Four of its domestic routes are public service routes. Its busiest scheduled route is ATH-Thessaloniki, which it serves up to 11 times daily with A320s. Despite the adverse economic environment, it launched several new routes in the past winter schedule—from ATH to Vienna, Madrid, Tel Aviv and Belgrade—but it pulled services from ATH to Sofia and Bucharest. In the summer timetable it launched ATH-Kalamata and the PSO routes. It competes head-to-head with OA on most of its network; conversely, it is spared from domestic competition from a based LCC.

“But probably not for a lot longer,” Head of Network Planning & Scheduling Tassos Raftopoulos believes. “The penetration of LCCs at Athens is high and many no-frills carriers operate to other Greek airports as well.” EasyJet, for instance, is already the fourth-largest operator at ATH, with six routes and about 10 daily flights. It also has seven routes to/from Heraklion, five from SKG and four to/from Mykonos. Ryanair this summer launched direct flights to Rhodes, Kos and Volos.

For several years following its launch, Aegean focused on the domestic market. However, once it felt it had suitable coverage, “We switched our emphasis to international development. We had just eight international destinations in [summer] 2006; we have 20 now,” Gerogiannis says. It is notable that international boardings doubled from 1.4 million in 2006 to 2.8 million in 2009, whereas domestic enplanements increased 23% from 3.1 million to 3.8 million.

International boardings rose 22% in 2009 over 2008 versus a 2% increase for the domestic market. They jumped a further 42% in the 2010 first quarter while domestic passengers climbed just 2%. Today, international operations represent about 60% of total revenue.

“Aegean has always supported a very prudent and focused growth,” he explains. “We believe you have to concentrate on specific tasks or goals, and once you do this well you can expand onto other objectives.”

He is resolute that the carrier, or the merged entity, will not venture into long-haul services in the next three years. The many parked former Olympic Airlines A340s at Athens are a permanent reminder of past aspirations of the carrier and the country, he admits, but “when we do merge it is not to destroy value. It is to establish value. Being in this business for a decade we have learned a few things, including that it is very difficult to earn a little money and very easy to lose big money if you embark on strange adventures. You have to be prudent. Once you believe you can do miracles, the problems start.”

Financially Sound
Owing to its “very prudent growth,” A3 has posted annual profits in each of the past seven years. Over the last five years, revenue rose by a 17% CAGR. Although net profit was down 22% last year compared to 2008 owing to the global recession, the decline of the Greek economy and competition from the new OA during the final three months of the year, it was one of just a few profitable listed airlines in Europe. The 2% rise in revenue mainly was owing to its significant international network expansion, which included new routes from Athens to Brussels, Berlin Tegel, Barcelona, Venice, Istanbul, Vienna and Madrid.

For the first quarter of the current financial year, seasonally the weakest, A3 reported a net loss of €25.6 million, reversed from a €4.6 million profit in the year-ago period, despite a 3% hike in revenue to €114.8 million. The €29.5 million operating loss compared with a breakeven result last year.

The 50-year-old MD, who holds a Ph.D in electrical engineering from Yale, remains careful in his outlook for 2010 and compares it to the Delphi oracle. “Seeing the very uncertain environment in Greece and the austerity measures in several other European countries, it is extremely difficult to make predictions. What is clear is that demand and yield are falling, particularly on domestic routes where we witnessed a decline of over 15% in June. On international routes yields are also under pressure and there is [an] outspoken trend to late bookings.”

He feels that overall Aegean is well-prepared to manage the recession, pointing to its “competitive” cost base (CASK was €0.065 in 2009, 21% lower than 2008), Star membership, the upcoming merger and its solid operating financial position “by design” in terms of cash position (€184.9 million as of March 31) and very limited exposure to loans.

“Yes, we have a strong position to deal with the crisis but we have to take additional measures,” Gerogiannis confirms. In line with the slowing demand, A3 is reducing capacity. The planned delivery of three new A320s scheduled from February through April was deferred to 2014 and additional adjustments will be made if market conditions further deteriorate in order to “safeguard the stability and viability of the company.”

Despite the pressure on demand and yields, the carrier will not make any changes to its full-service approach, he states, insisting it will continue offering passengers a dual-class cabin configuration, high-quality inflight catering and inflight entertainment at no extra charge (it received the Skytrax World Airline awards as Best Regional Airline in Europe and Best Cabin Crew in South Europe for 2009).

“We made the conscious decision to be a full-service carrier when we ordered our new Airbus fleet in 2005—they are not configured in a maximum seats configuration but with 168 seats on the A320s and 195 on the A321s,” he says, adding, “Among the basic pillars of Aegean’s strategy are continuous development, quality service and credibility.”

With membership in Star and a looming position as a “national airline champion,” Aegean certainly does not lack for credibility. The longer-term question is whether it can continue its winning ways following the merger with Olympic.

EngineerGreece

August 2nd, 2010, 04:48 PM

^^

Aegean Airlines Rules :okay:

nmk2600

August 6th, 2010, 02:41 AM

pilotos

August 6th, 2010, 03:28 PM

Well of course they aren't concerned about international routes, our tiny airlines hardly operate any in any case.

Sure there is some problem in internal market, but i agree that by dropping some routes it would be enough to allow smaller companies to compete, and they are quite many, Bluebird, Athens, Sky express, Astra Airlines, will be more than happy to serve some popular regional routes with less competition!

I am quite sure in the end They will merge with no issues, but well indeed all this acquisitions by big groups cause bigger problems in competition. At least any non Greek airline low cost or not can create a local base when they wish and run internal routes.

skyduster

August 7th, 2010, 06:31 PM

I think that this European Comission thing is pure Bull Sh... They let big companies do whatever they want and they wont allow smaller companies to become bigger = less threat to the big airlines..

What competition did Austrian Airlines had, or Swiss Airlines or Brussels Airlines?? Almost none, and why did the European comission allowed Lufthansa to buy them all??? Lufthansa now controls all those markets!!!

Or for example Alitalia merging with AirOne, KLM merging with Air france, Iberia and British??

I understand that the are concerned about the DOMESTIC market, but in reality, they will help airlines such as Athens Airways (which loses money and has no chance against aegean or olympic) because the merged aegean/olympic will have to open some routes for competition. So in reality, they are helping Athens Airways to become a real domestic player where before it didnt stand a chance.

As far as International competition, I think that they have no moral in saying that aegean+olympic will cause any threat because the Big 3 (lufthansa group, Airfrance/Klm, and Iberia/British) have eliminated their competition completely!

What are they really scared off??? Tell me what international routes are ONLY operated by aegean+olympic without ANY competition??

BULL SH..!!!

NMK,

The problem is that when we compare Aegean/Olympic to Lufthansa, Iberia, Air France, KLM, etc, there are some key differences, aside from the fact that Olympic and Aegean are smaller than the other carriers you mentioned.

Olympic and Aegean both have their hubs in Athens, and they both have secondary hubs in Thessaloniki. As a result, they share the vast majority of their domestic routes, and -if the merger is to follow through- they would have a near-monopoly on the domestic market (they would control 95% of the domestic market). This was/is not the case with Lufthansa/Swiss, AirFrance/KLM, British/Iberia. It was even less of a problem for Alitalia/AirOne than for Aegean/Olympic, as AirOne and pre-merger Alitalia did not have the same hubs (Alitalia for a while had two hubs: Rome and Milan, but the Milan hub was dropped, and only Rome was the airline's hub at the time of merger with AirOne).

This excerpt from an article in Aviation Week explains:

The airlines have signaled merging is critical for their survival as they battle low-fare rivals in their market.

But Brussels has taken a dim view on consolidation in individual European markets, even as it has allowed contraction to take place in Europe more broadly. For instance, while Lufthansa has been allowed to absorb Austrian and taking a majority share in Brussels Airlines, the commission blocked Ryanair’s attempt to take over rival Irish carrier Aer Lingus on antitrust grounds.
article: Olympic Merger Plan Draws EC Scrutiny (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news/awx/2010/08/02/awx_08_02_2010_p0-245076.xml&headline=Olympic%20Merger%20Plan%20Draws%20EC%20Scrutiny)

So, as may happen in Greece, the same thing happened in Ireland.

People are right to say that Athens Airways is a viable competitor, but it's far too small, and OA/A3 would still control the vast majority of the domestic market. It wouldn't be equitable. SkyExpress, has its hub is in Heraklio, and it doesn't directly compete with A3 and OA on most routes.

So, you can see why the EC is questioning the OA/A3 merger.

The EC is just looking out for the interests of Greek consumers. The EC is not picking on Greece. As much as the KKE would like us all to believe that this is the case: the EU is not a protection racket for the big, powerful companies (unlike other regional trading blocs like NAFTA or ASEAN which really are undemocratic, the EU has democratic and human rights safeguards, that's what sets the EU apart).

GNL

August 7th, 2010, 09:32 PM

NMK,

The problem is that when we compare Aegean/Olympic to Lufthansa, Iberia, Air France, KLM, etc, there are some key differences, aside from the fact that Olympic and Aegean are smaller than the other carriers you mentioned.

Olympic and Aegean both have their hubs in Athens, and they both have secondary hubs in Thessaloniki. As a result, they share the vast majority of their domestic routes, and -if the merger is to follow through- they would have a near-monopoly on the domestic market (they would control 95% of the domestic market). This was/is not the case with Lufthansa/Swiss, AirFrance/KLM, British/Iberia. It was even less of a problem for Alitalia/AirOne than for Aegean/Olympic, as AirOne and pre-merger Alitalia did not have the same hubs (Alitalia for a while had two hubs: Rome and Milan, but the Milan hub was dropped, and only Rome was the airline's hub at the time of merger with AirOne).

This excerpt from an article in Aviation Week explains:

article: Olympic Merger Plan Draws EC Scrutiny (http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=comm&id=news/awx/2010/08/02/awx_08_02_2010_p0-245076.xml&headline=Olympic%20Merger%20Plan%20Draws%20EC%20Scrutiny)

So, as may happen in Greece, the same thing happened in Ireland.

People are right to say that Athens Airways is a viable competitor, but it's far too small, and OA/A3 would still control the vast majority of the domestic market. It wouldn't be equitable. SkyExpress, has its hub is in Heraklio, and it doesn't directly compete with A3 and OA on most routes.

So, you can see why the EC is questioning the OA/A3 merger.

The EC is just looking out for the interests of Greek consumers. The EC is not picking on Greece. As much as the KKE would like us all to believe that this is the case: the EU is not a protection racket for the big, powerful companies (unlike other regional trading blocs like NAFTA or ASEAN which really are undemocratic, the EU has democratic and human rights safeguards, that's what sets the EU apart).

:cheer: well said Skyduster!

Grk101

August 8th, 2010, 05:22 AM

Although other mergers didn't create a monopoly per se in the traditional sense, it doesn't change the fact that most of these airlines have (and had before merger) a monopoly/near monopoly in their own countries. Most of these airlines own subsidiaries to cover the domestic market. Take for examples Air France's "Régional". Or KLM's "City Hopper". Or Lufthansa's "Eurowings" and "Germanwings". The list goes on. So really, it is still a monopoly, just presented in a different way.

And if you want to argue about a monopoly on International routes (which I don't think OA/A3 have a problem on, although the EC mentioned something) take a look at KLM: "KLM is the only carrier on 61 of the routes it operates, representing 45% of its ASKs from the airport. On around 10% of flights (14 routes) it faces competition from two other airlines. Eight of these routes are within Europe."

Also the Aer Lingus/Ryanair situation was a bit different and more complex. It involved a hostel takeover by Ryanair (two separate attempts actually, and a third imminent), and a government (who is a shareholder of Aer Lingus) who is holding out for more money.

As for Greek airlines and hubs, the airports to pick are really limited. You have to create a hub in a good catchment area. Athens is of course top (3.5 million local catchment at least), followed by Thessaloniki (about 1 million) and Heraklion (about 130,000. 600k if you count all of Crete). Other options are not really viable, and even Heraklion is a stretch. Unlike some other countries, Greece's population is not spread out much. That is why Athens alone is a hub for 5 different airlines currently: OA, A3, Athens Airways, Hellenic Imperial, and Viking Hellas.

Just for fun, here are OA and A3's hubs officially:
*OA: Hubs - Athens, Secondary Hubs - Thessaloniki, Rhodes.
*A3: Hubs - Athens, Secondary Hubs - Thessaloniki, Heraklion.

Anyway, in the end I think the merger will end up passing. Skyduster is right, the EC is looking after the public's interests. That is why I think OA/A3 will ultimately agree to give up some domestic routes and possibly freeze fares. If the merger gets denied, they can and will most likely appeal the decision. But really, I find Greece's situation will be similar to Switzerland. With one main airline (Swiss International Airlines) and limited other airlines, two main airports, and a small population. And ironically, it looks like if you combine OA and A3's total passengers carried, they will be as big as Swiss. The main difference though, is that Switzerland does not have a big domestic aviation network. They use other means of transportation (such as road and rail) for domestic travel.

pilotos

August 8th, 2010, 10:31 AM

Well i agree with everyone above more or less, and i never told that a merger would not cause monopoly issues inside Greece, but given that the airline will agree to drop routes, and obviously quit form claiming the state supported "Agones", the merger will go one normally even if late.

and Heraklion (about 130,000. 600k if you count all of Crete

Heraklion is still the 2nd airport of Greece with a traffic of around 5 million passengers, because of tourism of course, but no surprise that many airlines popping out in Crete lately:)

Grk101

August 8th, 2010, 05:35 PM

Heraklion is still the 2nd airport of Greece with a traffic of around 5 million passengers, because of tourism of course, but no surprise that many airlines popping out in Crete lately:)

Yep, but I meant local catchment population. ;) (Which is the core to any hub, and is needed)

Anyway, let's see what will happen. I am surprised A3 and OA have not released statements regarding the initial EC announcement....

Grk101

August 8th, 2010, 05:46 PM

On a different note, it looks like Aegean have put their Avro fleet up for sale: http://www.prisma.aero/portfolio/available.htm
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/4887/1718103.jpg
(http://www.airliners.net/photo/Aegean-Airlines/BAE-Systems-Avro/1718103/M/)

It does not look like there is a planned replacement though. So I guess they have confidence that they will merge and and make use of Olympic's Bombardier fleet?
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9501/1748182.jpg
(http://www.airliners.net/photo/Olympic/De-Havilland-Canada/1748182/M/)

YU-AMC

August 9th, 2010, 09:47 AM

So once they merge, will they get any wide bodies AC?

EngineerGreece

August 9th, 2010, 09:58 AM

Probably. Because their first aim, I think, is to return to the states.

pilotos

August 9th, 2010, 03:00 PM

Not really, in this recent interview Aegean CEO speaks for a minimum of 3 years wait time till they may start transatlantic routes again.

EngineerGreece

August 9th, 2010, 04:22 PM

Because of Olympic, right..?

Grk101

August 9th, 2010, 08:16 PM

Because of Olympic, right..?

I think the 3 year estimate (2013?) by Aegean is a bit cautious. It sounds like they expect to fine tune the merger and focus on growth/strengthening their network in 2011-2012, then focus on expanding long-haul in 2013. But I think it will ultimately depend on the economy, how the merger goes, and how fast they can acquire the proper aircraft. Remember that Olympic had stated that they planned to start long-haul flights again around 2011. But then again that was before the economy went south in Greece. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the merged OA/A3 start long-haul flights around 2012.

YU-AMC

August 15th, 2010, 10:46 AM

I think the 3 year estimate (2013?) by Aegean is a bit cautious. It sounds like they expect to fine tune the merger and focus on growth/strengthening their network in 2011-2012, then focus on expanding long-haul in 2013. But I think it will ultimately depend on the economy, how the merger goes, and how fast they can acquire the proper aircraft. Remember that Olympic had stated that they planned to start long-haul flights again around 2011. But then again that was before the economy went south in Greece. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the merged OA/A3 start long-haul flights around 2012.

I have to agree on this one.

Grk101

August 19th, 2010, 12:10 AM

Reality seems to be setting in.....Their first loss in years.

Aegean Air posts H1 loss as recession bites
ATHENS | Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:35am EDT

ATHENS Aug 18 (Reuters) - Aegean Airlines (AGNr.AT), Greece's largest carrier, on Wednesday reported a 32.6 million euro ($42 million) loss in the first half, hurt by a deteriorating economy at home.

Greece is going through its deepest recession in almost 40 years with consumer spending under pressure after the government raised taxes and cut public sector pay to cope with a debt crisis.

Aegean, which agreed in February to team up with privatised Olympic Airlines, said total traffic was steady at 2.9 million passengers in the first six months.

While domestic passenger traffic fell 11 percent, international flights carried 1.4 million passengers, a rise of 18 percent.

"The negative economic environment had a profound impact on our first-half performance. We proceeded with the necessary adjustments on our network and costs to protect the company during the crisis," Managing Director Dimitris Gerogiannis said in a statement.

He said the carrierr would focus on routes where it has a competitive advantage due to its fleet of new Airbus A320 jets and its full membership in Star Alliance. Aegean has taken delivery of 22 new Airbus A320/321 aircraft in recent years.

"A possible imminent approval of our agreement with Olympic Airlines could allow us to present in the summer of 2011 an expanding profile," he said.

The European Union's executive is looking into the proposed merger between the two Greek carriers, which would create a dominant airline in Greece's domestic market, with a fleet of 64 aircraft and a workforce of 5,850 employees. [ID:nLDE66T22U]

Aegean's first half sales fell 3 percent to 267.4 million euros, with its load factor improving by 4.2 percentage points year-on-year to 64.8 percent.

The airline attributed the decline to pressure on the average revenue per flight, particularly at home. (Reporting by George Georgiopoulos; Editing by David Cowell)

FROM: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE67H1KN20100818

First Half 2010 Results
Press Releases - 8/18/2010
Kifissia, 18 August 2010

AEGEAN announces results for the first half of 2010. Revenue declined 3% at €267.4m. Net result after taxes recorded losses of €32.6m compared to profits of €13.4m in the previous year. The first half of 2010 includes a tax charge of €6.6m related to the extraordinary social contribution charge.

The total number of passengers traveling with Aegean remained flat at 2.9m in the first half of 2010. In the domestic network, AEGEAN carried 1.5 m passengers, 11% less than in the previous year while in the international network AEGEAN carried 1.4m passengers, recording an 18% y-o-y rise, mainly due to the addition of new routes as of the end of 2009.

Despite the fact that traffic remained at the same as last year’s level, as well as the rising contribution of international traffic, revenue declined as a result of the significant pressures on average revenue per flight due to the economic crisis, particularly as far as Greek originated traffic is concerned. Moreover, conditions of overcapacity prevailing in certain markets amidst a recessionary environment had an impact on the company’s financial performance. In addition, external factors like the devaluation of the euro versus the US dollar as well as the rise of oil price had a negative impact on the company’s result.

Mr. Dimitris Gerogiannis, Managing Director, commented:

“The negative economic environment had a profound impact on our first half financial performance. We proceed with the necessary adjustments on our network and costs, with immediate effect, so as to protect the company during the crisis. At the same time, our efforts concentrate on fully exploiting and completing our past strategic choices, such as our entry into the Star Alliance and the agreement with Marfin Investment Group/OA. “

Among the restructuring measures undertaken, the company has already proceeded during the first half of 2010 with the reduction of its fleet by 3 aircraft. In addition, 2 RJ Avros were returned in July 2010 while 2 ATR 72 are scheduled to be returned to their owners in September 2010. As a result of the fleet reduction and given efforts to improve the efficiency of its network within a particularly weak economic environment, the company will exit - with immediate effect - 2 domestic (Athens-Ioannina, Athens-Kavala) and 3 international routes (Athens-Tirana, Athens-Belgrade, Athens-Vienna) which are particularly loss making.

Mr Dimitris Gerogiannis, added: “We must focus on destinations were we maintain a competitive advantage either due to our new Airbus A320 fleet or due to our entry into the Star Alliance. A possible imminent approval of our agreement with OA could allow us to ably present on the summer of 2011 an expanding profile which is necessary for both our company and our country."
From: http://en.aegeanair.com/news.aspx?newsItem=775

EngineerGreece

August 20th, 2010, 10:49 AM

^^

Πρέπει να ρίξει και λίγο τις τιμές. Γιατί τώρα τελευταία είναι κάπως τσιμπημένες. Όπως και να έχει είναι η κορυφαία εταιρία της Ελλάδας, κατ'εμέ πάντα.

pilotos

August 20th, 2010, 11:19 AM

Οι τιμές και των δύο είναι πολύ τσιμπημένες στα εσωτερικά δρομολόγια, οι διεθνείς είναι κάπως καλύτερες, άλλα δυστυχώς έχουν ήδη συνάψει ένα ιδιότυπο μονοπώλιο μοιράζοντας τις πτήσεις, μιλάμε πλέον για μία εταιρεία, ελπίζω μόνο να μην τους βγει σε κακό, διότι πρόστιμα θα πέσουν άλλα ίσως να συναντήσουν και σοβαρά προβλήματα στην συνένωση λόγω της πράξεων τους.

Πάντως γενικά κάνουν πολλά μαζεμένα λαθάκια τελευταία, και όπως λέει ο λαός όποιος βιάζεται σκοντάφτει!

TheFlyingCat

August 21st, 2010, 08:13 PM

Αμα ερχονταν στην Ελλαδα η Ryanair και Easyjet να κανουν βασεις, θα βλεπαμε ξαφνικα τις τιμες ΟΑ και Α3 (συντομα ΟΑ3) να πεφτουν δραματικα!

EngineerGreece

August 21st, 2010, 11:59 PM

pilotos

August 22nd, 2010, 10:45 AM

Σοβαρό τεχνικό πρόβλημα καθήλωσε επί δίωρο τα αεροσκάφη στη χώρα

Καθηλωμένα παρέμειναν επί περίπου δύο ώρες τα αεροσκάφη τόσο στο Διεθνή Αερολιμένας Αθηνών «Ελ.Βενιζέλος», όσο και πολλά άλλα σε αεροδρόμια όλης της χώρας, λόγω πτώσης του ηλεκτρονικού συστήματος επικοινωνιών του κέντρου ελέγχου πτήσεων Αθηνών.

... (http://news.in.gr/greece/article/?aid=1231056071)

Πρωτοφανές και ατυχέστατο περιστατικό, ελπίζω να λυθεί σύντομα!

TheFlyingCat

August 22nd, 2010, 02:32 PM

^^

Ναι αλλά νομίζω ότι μαζί με τις τιμές θα έπεφτε και η ποιότητα. Πως αλλιώς να ανταγωνιστούν αυτές τις εταιρίες που στην ουσία κόβουν από την άνεση και την ποιότητα ώστε να μπορούν να πληρώνουν και καύσιμα κτλ, και να έχουν φτηνά εισιτήρια;;

Από όσες έχω ταξιδέψει ως τώρα μόνο η KLM είναι κάπου στην μέση. Αυτή η ιδέα μου έχει δημιουργηθεί τουλάχιστον. :)

Για μια εσωτερικη πτηση, η οποια δεν διαρκει πανω απο μιαμιση ωρα, πιστευω πως ειναι περιττο να σκεφτεται κανεις αν μια εταιρια δινει ή δεν δινει φαγητο ή αν οι θεσεις πανε ή δεν πανε προς τα πισω. Το μονο που κοιτα κανεις ειναι να παει γρηγορα στον προορισμο του. :)

Αλλωστε πολλες μεγαλες ευρωπαϊκες εταιρειες αρχιζουν και αλλαζουν διαρυθμιση στα αεροσκαφη τους κανοντας τα all-economy class. Αν το αεροσκαφος πρεπει να πεταξει εξωτερικο, τοτε η εταιρια δεσμευει π.χ. τις 5 πρωτες σειρες καθισματων και ''κλεινει'' τη μεσαια θεση με ενα τραπεζακι (μιλαμε οταν το αεροσκαφος εχει 3-3 configuration). Ετσι αντι να καθονται 6 ατομα σε μια σειρα, με την πατεντα αυτη καθονται 4 ατομα! Και το ονομα αυτης? Premium Business! Αν δεν κανω λαθος το εφαρμοζει και η Olympic Air στα αεροπλανα της, εκτος απο τα SX-OAT και OAU τα οποια εχουν κανονικη business class και ειναι ρεζερβε μονο για τις πτησεις προς και απο Λονδινο-Χιθροου!

YU-AMC

August 24th, 2010, 10:45 AM

Btw what is the story with Hellenic airways and the oldish 747-200 fleet.... How do they manage to stay in the bussines? What kind of passengers do they get?

ReiAyanami

August 24th, 2010, 11:03 AM

You mean the imperial or whatever they are called? I have asked the same thing a while ago, nobody knows. They have some 747 apparently just sitting around.

kostya

August 24th, 2010, 12:08 PM

Btw what is the story with Hellenic airways and the oldish 747-200 fleet.... How do they manage to stay in the bussines? What kind of passengers do they get?

Cargo flights and some charters.

EngineerGreece

August 24th, 2010, 04:07 PM

^^

Charters mostly.

pilotos

August 24th, 2010, 09:25 PM

Charters and few days lasting scheduled flights :D and dreams for flights to us with 777 supposedly, if you ask me i am afraid they are just legalizing black money, but in any case mostly charters!

Grk101

August 25th, 2010, 11:24 AM

Grk101

August 25th, 2010, 11:32 AM

There is some code-share news from both Aegean and Olympic.

Aegean has signed a code share starting immediately with Continental Airlines for flights between their New York Newark hub, and Athens as well as select Europe destinations.

FROM: http://en.aegeanair.com/news.aspx?newsItem=776
Aegean Airlines and Continental Airlines to Start Codeshare Flights
Press Releases - 8/23/2010

HOUSTON and ATHENS, August 23, 2010: Star Alliance partners Continental Airlines (NYSE:CAL) and Aegean Airlines today announced plans to start codesharing on Continental's flights between its New York hub, Newark Liberty International Airport, and Athens, as well as on selected flights operated by Aegean Airlines in Europe.

Effective August 23, 2010, Continental will place its "CO" code on selected Aegean Airlines-operated flights between Athens and six leading holiday destinations in Greece (Thessaloniki, Heraklion, Rhodes, Mykonos, Santorini, Chania) and between Athens and Larnaca, Cyprus. At a future date to be determined, Continental will also codeshare on Aegean flights between Athens and London/Heathrow, United Kingdom, and Munich and Frankfurt, Germany. Pending government approval, Continental will also codeshare on Aegean flights between Athens and Paris/Charles de Gaulle, France, and Rome/Fiumicino, Italy.

Also effective August 23, 2010, Aegean Airlines will place its "A3" code on Continental's flights between New York/Newark and Athens. Pending government approval, Aegean will also codeshare on Continental flights from New York/Newark to Paris/Charles de Gaulle and to Rome/Fiumicino.

"Aegean Airlines continues to expand its codeshare strategy across the world. Thanks to this new partnership with Continental Airlines we can now offer Greek passengers a great travel solution to New York," said Aegean Airlines' chief executive officer, Dimitris Gerogiannis. "This is another example of the many new advantages our recent Star Alliance membership offers our passengers."

“Continental is delighted to partner with Aegean Airlines,” said Jim Compton, Continental’s executive vice president and chief marketing officer. “The agreement will offer our US-originating customers seamless access, via Athens, to many of Greece’s most popular destinations, as well as increasing travel options for our Greek customers.”

Because both Continental and Aegean Airlines are members of Star Alliance, members of Continental's frequent flyer program, OnePass, and Aegean Airlines' frequent flyer program, Miles & Bonus, are able to earn and redeem mileage anywhere on either airline's global route network. Continental BusinessFirst passengers, OnePass Star Alliance Gold members and Presidents Club members travelling on a same-day Star Alliance member flight are able to access Aegean Airlines Lounges at the flight's departure city, while Aegean Airlines Business Class passengers and Miles & Bonus Star Alliance Gold members are able to access Continental's Presidents Club lounges worldwide prior to departure on a same-day Star Alliance member flight.

Continental has been serving Athens since 2007. The airline's flights to New York/Newark are operated with Boeing 767-400ER aircraft with a total of 235 seats – 35 in the award-winning BusinessFirst cabin and 200 in Economy.

And Olympic has signed a code share with Italian airline Meridiana Fly for flights between Greece and Italy.

FROM: http://www.olympicair.com/News.aspx?a_id=1903
Commercial cooperation between Olympic Air and Meridiana Fly (IG)

Athens August 16, 2010

Olympic Air (OA) announces the launching of commercial cooperation with Meridiana Fly (IG), on a codeshare basis (code-share agreement), allowing both carriers passengers enhanced travelling options between Italy and Greece giving passengers the opportunity to travel with more options.

Olympic Air will promote tickets on selected flights of Meridiana Fly. These flights will be operated by Meridiana's aircraft and crew..

Similarly, Meridiana Fly will sell and promote Olympic Air flights. These flights will be operated by Olympic Air's aircraft and crew. The code share agreement will be effective as of 16/8/2010.

Meridiana Fly (IG) is the second largest airline of Italy and the only one listed on the Milan Stock Exchange, and serves a total of 87 destinations, 48 international (Europe and regional countries), 32 national and 7 transcontinental, with renewed fleet, which consists mainly of Airbus A320s , A319s & A330 & MD82, ATR42.

Olympic Air is a new, dynamic Greek airline emerged when the Marfin Investment Group acquired the Greek public assets of the state Olympic Airways. Olympic Air started operation on September 29, 2009, when it took the flight from the old Olympic. It has one of the youngest aircraft fleet in Europe, which consists of 32 aircraft (16 Airbus A320 and A319, 10 DHC8-Q400 Bombardier, 5 DHC8-100 Bombardier and 1 ATR-42) and is based at Athens International Airport "Eleftherios Venizelos ".
Olympic Air operate scheduled flights to 32 Greek destinations and 13 international cities.

The network of MERIDIANA Fly which will be promoted by OA's code share call signs, are:
MERIDIANA FLY (IG) network:
ATHENS-MILAN (Malpenza)-ATHENS
ATHENS-VERONA-ATHENS
MYKONOS-MILAN (Malpensa)-MYKONOS
MYKONOS-VERONA-MYKONOS
SANTORINI-MILAN (Malpenza)-SANTORINI
MYKONOS-BARI-MYKONOS

The network of OA promoted by Meridiana FLY on a code share basis are:
OLYMPIC AIR (OA) network:
ATHENS-ROME (FIUMICINO)-ATHENS
ATHENS-MILAN (Malpenza)-ATHENS

EngineerGreece

August 28th, 2010, 06:00 PM

Σε εταιρίες όλα τα αεροδρόμια
http://news247.gr/oikonomia/etairies_tha_analavoyn_thn_diaxeirish_toys_syrriknwnetai_h_ypa.491523.html

Εταιρίες θα διαχειρίζονται τα 34 αεροδρόμια της χώρας, με το νέο νομοσχέδιο που καταθέτει στη Βουλή το υπουργείο Μεταφορών. Αλλαγές στις εργασιακές σχέσεις στις υπό ίδρυση Α.Ε. με μοναδικό μέτοχο το Δημόσιο. Συρρικνώνεται η ΥΠΑ

Δημοσιεύτηκε: Αύγουστος 28 2010 13:43 Ενημερώθηκε: Αύγουστος 28 2010 14:03

Στην παροχή της εκμετάλλευσης των αεροδρομίων της χώρας σε ιδιωτικές εταιρίες προωθεί η κυβέρνηση, στο πλαίσιο των αλλαγών που επιφέρει στη δομή της Υπηρεσίας Πολιτικής Αεροπορίας το νέο νομοσχέδιο που καταθέτει το υπουργείο Μεταφορών Υποδομών και Δικτύων.

Η αρχή θα γίνει με την αναμόρφωση της ΥΠΑ, έτσι ώστε -σύμφωνα με το υπουργείο- να λειτουργήσει πλέον με βάση τα ευρωπαϊκά πρότυπα και να ανταποκρίνεται στο νέο πλαίσιο που διέπει τις αερομεταφορές και την επίγεια εξυπηρέτηση των αεροδρομίων.

Στην ΥΠΑ, αναδιαρθρώνεται και μετονομάζεται η Γενική Διεύθυνση Αεροναυτιλίας σε Γενική Διεύθυνση Φορέα Παροχής Υπηρεσιών Αεροναυτιλίας και καθορίζονται οι αρμοδιότητες και οι υπηρεσίες της, σύμφωνα με το ισχύον ευρωπαϊκό κανονιστικό πλαίσιο.

Το σχέδιο νόμου προβλέπει ότι στην Υπηρεσία Πολιτικής Αεροπορίας διατηρούνται τρεις Γενικές Διευθύνσεις, και συγκεκριμένα η Γενική Διεύθυνση Φορέα Παροχής Υπηρεσιών Αεροναυτιλίας, η Γενική Διεύθυνση Αερομεταφορών και η Γενική Διεύθυνση Διοικητικής, ενώ οι υπόλοιπες καταργούνται.

Οι εργαζόμενοι αντιδρούν στις προωθούμενες αλλαγές, καθώς όπως εκτιμούν θα οδηγήσουν σε συρρίκνωση το έργο της ΥΠΑ και θα την οδηγήσουν σε ρόλο απλής εποπτικής αρχής, στην ιδιωτικοποίηση των αερομεταφορών που επιδιώκει η τρόικα, με διακύβευμα την ασφάλεια των πτήσεων και την εξυπηρέτηση των επιβατών.

Ιδιωτικά τα αεροδρόμια

Στο νέο νόμο προβλέπεται η ίδρυση ανώνυμων εταιριών με μοναδικό μέτοχο το Δημόσιο, καθεστώς το οποίο θα επιφέρει αλλαγή στις εργασιακές σχέσεις, καθώς οι συμβάσεις εργασίας θα είναι όμοιες με αυτές του ιδιωτικού τομέα.

Το αντικείμενο των Α.Ε. θα είναι η διοίκηση, αξιοποίηση και ανάπτυξη των κρατικών αερολιμένων και η δυνατότητα παραχώρησης δικαιωμάτων που αφορούν στη διοίκηση, αναβάθμιση, ανάπτυξη και λειτουργία των κρατικών αεροδρομίων σε νομικά πρόσωπα, δηλαδή σε ιδιωτικές εταιρίες, δεκάδες από τις οποίες λειτουργούν ήδη στην Ε.Ε.

Πρότυπο για τη λειτουργία του συστήματος, θα είναι ο Διεθνής Αερολιμένας Αθήνων "Ελευθέριος Βενιζέλος".

Για το λόγο αυτό προβλέπεται η σύσταση Διεύθυνσης Πολιτικού Σχεδιασμού Ανάπτυξης και Αξιοποίησης Αεροδρομίων στη Γενική Διεύθυνση Μεταφορών του Υπουργείου Υποδομών, Μεταφορών και Δικτύων.

Σε ιδιωτικές εταιρίες σχεδιάζεται επίσης να παραχωρηθεί η επίγεια εξυπηρέτηση των 34 ελληνικών αεροδρομίων (ground handling).

Με το νομοσχέδιο ρυθμίζονται επίσης οριστικά τα ζητήματα μεταφοράς προσωπικού (ιπτάμενοι χειριστές και μηχανικοί) από την πρώην Ολυμπιακή, τα θέματα ασφάλειας της πολιτικής αεροπορίας από έκνομες ενέργειες και το ύψος, οι υπόχρεοι καταβολής και η διαδικασία είσπραξης του ανταποδοτικού τέλους υπέρ της Αρχής Συντονισμού Πτήσεων.

Εσείς τι λέτε για αυτό;

ovem

August 29th, 2010, 08:37 PM

Στο τέλος θα ιδιωτικοποιήσουμε και τους ανθρώπους...

EngineerGreece

August 30th, 2010, 08:35 AM

Τα περισσότερα αεροδρόμια της Ευρώπης είναι ιδιωτικά. Ή υπάρχει σύμπραξη δημοσίου με ιδιωτικό τομέα όπως γίνεται στο αεροδρόμιο Charles de Gaulle του Παρισιού.

pilotos

August 30th, 2010, 03:38 PM

Καιρός ήταν να ασχοληθούμε λίγο και με τα χάλια των αεροδρομίων, ειδικά τα λεγόμενα "μεγάλα" που δεν προσφέρουν πτήσεις σε κανέναν σοβαρό προορισμό, δεν προσφέρουν σοβαρές υπηρεσίες, δεν προωθούν τον τουρισμό και δεν έχουν σχέδιο στην καλύτερη περίπτωση.
Ελπίζω να αναπτυχθεί τουλάχιστον αυτό της Θεσσαλονίκης, έχοντας σοβαρό σχέδιο ανάπτυξης και προσέλκυσης εταιρειών με νέους προορισμούς. Αφού σήμερα όποιος θέλει να πάει στο εξωτερικό απλά πρέπει να περάσει από Αθήνα.

RelaxInPireaus

September 2nd, 2010, 10:11 PM

Grk101

September 9th, 2010, 06:08 AM

Thanks for the photo!

Apparently Athens Airways has ceased operations.......

It was expected. It was rumored they were loosing a lot of money everyday, they lost the public service routes because of constant cancellations and delays, and they had returned planes. Sad to see another domestic competitor go though....

pilotos

September 9th, 2010, 09:52 AM

Indeed it seems so, even though they for now claim their planes are for maintenance it seems they were returned to lessor, well its sad to see one more out of the game, but unfortunately they deserved nothing more.

YU-AMC

September 24th, 2010, 11:15 AM

Anyways nothing new, but sad for sure. What I wanted to know was the political cimate among Greece and Usa. How is it in general? I do recall that OA pushed for Airbus order over the B777 back in 1999 when they got their A340 birds. Now they OA operated just Airbus, it makes me ask about it.

Billy8181

September 24th, 2010, 12:30 PM

Στο τέλος θα ιδιωτικοποιήσουμε και τους ανθρώπους...

kai afou to kanoume ayto tha epistrepsoun ola se ena dimosio me pio sovari diaxeirisi :)

* Shame for Athens Airways! :( but I always thought it was abit too "refined" and expensive for domestic flights........many complained about it. Did it actually have alot of demand?

I guess in Greece if they served Lobster and charged for it on a 40min flight it would still be popular.......strange world.

can we have a low-cost domestic company? Low-cost. yes.....Low. :cheers:

Blizz_krk

September 25th, 2010, 03:45 PM

Ryanair boss O'Leary opens four base.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0924/1224279584792.html
[MOL] claims to have just signed a deal with a European government to open four bases in that country. But he won’t say which one.
“Ah, stop. I’m not going to alert my competition to where I’m opening bases.”

It's must by Greece :)

edyt: Yes, I'm think :)

EngineerGreece

September 25th, 2010, 04:57 PM

^^

You think..?

ovem

September 25th, 2010, 11:24 PM

At last! There are already 3 airports in Greece that Ryanair flies though.

RelaxInPireaus

September 27th, 2010, 02:02 PM

EngineerGreece

September 27th, 2010, 07:55 PM

^^

Μου φαίνεται ότι οι εταιρείες δεν προτιμάνε ιδιαίτερα αυτά τα αεροπλάνα. :P

pilotos

September 30th, 2010, 10:36 AM

have you seen this photo?
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/5/0/1/1716105.jpg

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Surinam-Airways/Boeing-747-306M/1716105/L/

Marana - Pinal Airpark (Silver Bell AHP) (MZJ)
More: USA - Arizona, April 2, 2010
:ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno:
how it appeared there/? So there are 2 proved and maybe one more Hellenic Imperial still in Greece, but if you believe the one who commented this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeURROPnmsk&feature=channel one plane is in Pakistan. So real fleet is just 2 .

Yes i 've seen this photo some time ago, well their planes are old, all of them will be there soon :) But it indeed seems they operate not more than 2 planes, not sure for their registrations, will check my pictures soon and see if its visible:)

YU-AMC

October 2nd, 2010, 01:17 PM

Air Canada happy with the loads. YUL(Montreal) - ATH was 90%. I don't have the Toronto figures, but I am sure it is quite high as well.

RelaxInPireaus

October 3rd, 2010, 01:57 PM

Air Canada happy with the loads. YUL(Montreal) - ATH was 90%. I don't have the Toronto figures, but I am sure it is quite high as well.

which plane they use for Athens?

Aggelos

October 3rd, 2010, 04:25 PM

question?when olympic air and aegean will merge?
I think is october..

ovem

October 5th, 2010, 12:21 AM

Merge?? Έχω χάσει επεισόδια;

EngineerGreece

October 5th, 2010, 12:52 AM

^^

Έλα... Δεν το ήξερες ότι θα γίνουν μια εταιρία; Στην ουσία η Aegean Air θα αγοράσει την Olympic Air αλλά θα χρησιμοποιείται το όνομα της Ολυμπιακής για λόγους ιστορικότητας κτλ κτλ...

ovem

October 5th, 2010, 02:57 AM

Όχι, δεν το ήξερα. Θα ισχύουν οι προορισμοί και των 2 εταιριών;

Grk101

October 5th, 2010, 05:54 AM

question?when olympic air and aegean will merge?
I think is october..

They have to get EU approval first. An in-depth study was opened to study possibly anti-competitiveness of the merger. A decision is expected by the latest 7 December. Both airlines are hoping for a faster response so they can merge as soon as possible (2011 Summer flight schedules are usually finalized and put into reservation systems in November)

If they are denied, they are both in major trouble. And that is what they will argue to the EU. Both of them are loosing major money, and they are returning planes and laying off employees. (or so I have heard. It has not been confirmed) The economy takes it's toll on everyone......and plus Aegean benefited for years without any real competition. Let's see if they will approve it or not. Some are skeptical saying that they will be denied because of the near monopoly it creates in the domestic market. But like I said in the past, I have a feeling they will agree to give up some routes to appease the EU if they are denied.

Όχι, δεν το ήξερα. Θα ισχύουν οι προορισμοί και των 2 εταιριών;
They are merging to create a bigger and stronger company better able to compete with the other big European airlines. Most destinations will stay, and if they do well, they will most definitely expand in a few years time. (Including long haul)

Grk101

October 5th, 2010, 06:02 AM

Some good news. It seems Olympic Air has won the EPA's Silver Award for 2010/2011.

http://www.olympicair.com/News.aspx?a_id=1936
News & events
Olympic Air - Airline of the year 2010/11

27/9/2010

European Regions Airlines Association (ERA) awarded Olympic Air the Airline of the Year 2010/11 silver award in a ceremony that took place in Barcelona, Spain, in the context of ERA's annual General Assembly, attended by hundreds of airline industry specialists.

It is worth commenting that Olympic Air is a newly launched carrier, which received this great recognition before completing one year of operation (Olympic Air operations commenced on October 1st, 2009)

The annual ERA Awards recognize excellence and achievement and encourage the highest standards across the sector of intra-European air transport. It is considered the most prestigious award a regional airline can receive. One of the major assets of the ERA Airline of the Year Award is the quality, independence and fairness of its judging procedure. The judging panel comprises a mix of industry's senior experts together with respected air transport journalists from all over Europe. Panelists are carefully selected for their knowledge and ability to assess achievements against the specific circumstances and constraints under which individual airlines operate.

Olympic Air was commended for its successful re-launch against a backdrop of a troubled past and an extreme economic crisis in Greece, its marketing strategy and its dedication to matters regarding flight safety.

ERA's decision to award Olympic Air was based on a number of criteria, such as technical and operational specifications, quality of provided services, passenger satisfaction, on-time performance, commercial innovations in the area of customer strategy, corporate strategy as well as financial development.

Olympic Air is a member of ERA, a non-profit trade association representing almost 200 companies involved in European air transport, including airlines, airframe and engine manufacturers, airports, suppliers and service providers from all over Europe. It represents some 70 intra-European airlines which annually carry 70.6m passengers on 1.6m flights to 426 destinations in 61 European countries. ERA also represents and supports more than 100 Associate and Affiliate members including airframe and engine manufacturers, airports, suppliers and service providers.

gm2263

October 5th, 2010, 02:17 PM

^^ Can you believe this???? :eek:

Τι να πω ρε παιδιά; Να κλάψω για τα χαμένα χρόνια ή να γελάσω για τη σημερινή αναγέννηση; Κλείστε το το τιμημένο το Δημόσιο, μας εκθέτει!!!

EngineerGreece

October 5th, 2010, 02:32 PM

^^

Wow no award for Aegean this year..? They probably said... ''OK lets give one to Olympic Air for a change"

:lol:

pilotos

October 5th, 2010, 05:59 PM

Come on ERA awards are a joke, not to add Simigdalas, current CEO of Olympic is ERA president too:D I guess they deserved it for the revival, but unfortunately the award really means little.

As for the merge, currently both airlines are ongoing major rearrangement of their fleets, with Aegean keeping only their Airbus(A 321, 320), and Olympic keeping few Airbus A319, and increasing their Q400 fleet by activating the option for 8 Q400N.This clearly means they are almost ready to merge, and by the time European commission will give the ok next day they will be ready!
It also means though that in case of disapproval they will stay 2 as different companies, but practically working as one, with Aegean being the Regional airline serving European destinations, and Olympic almost completely Domestic.

Aggelos

October 6th, 2010, 12:10 PM

οπως παλια και τοσα χρονια..
μια Ολυμπιακη..

pilotos

October 6th, 2010, 05:11 PM

Ξέχασα να αναφέρω ότι νεότερες πληροφορίες αναφέρουν ότι πιθανότατα το όνομα της νέας εταιρείας θα είναι "Aegean" :D

EngineerGreece

October 6th, 2010, 06:04 PM

^^

Σοβαρά; :nuts:

Grk101

October 7th, 2010, 07:43 AM

Ξέχασα να αναφέρω ότι νεότερες πληροφορίες αναφέρουν ότι πιθανότατα το όνομα της νέας εταιρείας θα είναι "Aegean" :D

It was confirmed in the press releases for the merger that it will be Olympic. (Unless of course the merger doesn't go through in the traditional manner hoped for)

http://www.marfininvestmentgroup.com/dm_documents/220210_OlympicAegean_En_ZO15Z.pdf

"The company that will be formed as a result from the merger will carry the name and logos of OLYMPIC AIR, following the necessary transition and adjustment period, during which the name and logos of AEGEAN will be used in parallel as well."

http://el.aegeanair.com/news.aspx?newsItem=748

"Η νέα εταιρεία που θα προκύψει από τη συγχώνευση θα χρησιμοποιεί το όνομα και τα σήματα της OLYMPIC AIR μετά από το απαραίτητο μεταβατικό χρονικό διάστημα αλλαγών και προσαρμογής όπου θα χρησιμοποιούνται παράλληλα το όνομα και τα σήματα της AEGEAN...........«Η συγχώνευση της OLYMPIC με την AEGEAN επιτυγχάνει αυτούς τους στόχους και παράλληλα διατηρεί και γιγαντώνει το όνομα ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ που είναι κομμάτι της εθνικής μας παράδοσης και περιουσίας και κάνει υπερήφανους όλους τους Έλληνες»."

pilotos

October 7th, 2010, 03:04 PM

Grk101

October 7th, 2010, 09:23 PM

True, but recent rumors claim that according to marketing research the Aegean brand is more powerful than Olympic, and that star alliance also prefers the Aegean brand, given the not so nice reputation of the Olympic, at least in the past!

The truth is that other than the above, there hasn't been any clear announcement on the name, and sounds more than normal to make some research before decision is made, and i suppose that research was made but only recently.

My opinion is that both are nice names and brands, the important is to make a new and beautiful livery, which i am afraid that wont happen if Olympic will be the choice, while in the case of Aegean i expect some major redesign, or at least an interesting combination, like continental-united did.

When Aegean joined Star back in June, the Star Alliance CEO had confirmed to reporters that the enlarged airline carrying the Olympic name will still be part of Star Alliance. He also joked that Skyteam lost the battle. (Since OA was going toward them) :lol:

Anyway, regardless of the name, there are so many rumors flying around in the Greek aviation forums. I honestly think its just users presenting their opinions as facts.

I have read so many things recently, that they all seem to contradict themselves. And they all seem to say that their information is "from inside sources". :nuts: Stuff like the airlines knowing the merger will not go through and setting themselves up for a quasi-merger to operate as domestic and long haul airlines like you mentioned (which wouldn't be allowed regardless by the anti-competition authority. They would still get into major trouble by the EU) to them hiring the top lawyers to be sure that the merger will go through and preparing for an expansion. And then others say they are merging to be more appealing for a larger European airline to buy them later. (Lufthansa prob.) :tongue3:

I guess only time will tell what happens. The last date for a decision/ruling is expected in 2 months exactly. Whichever name they choose in the end, the merger is for the best to strengthen the airlines IMO. Even if any competition will be lost, it will most likely open up a spot for a low cost airline to set up base in ATH. (Which is speculated)

Almopos

October 7th, 2010, 09:47 PM

Ενδιαφέρον για τα δρομολόγια εσωτερικού από την EasyJet

Τη θέση της στο νέο τοπίο που θα δημιουργηθεί στην εγχώρια αεροπορική αγορά λόγω της συγχώνευσης της Aegean Airlines και της Olympic Air αναζητεί η ελληνική θυγατρική του χαμηλού κόστους βρετανικού αερομεταφορέα EasyJet.

Όπως ανέφεραν οι επικεφαλής της EasyJet Hellas, στο πλαίσιο χθεσινής συνάντησης εργασίας με δημοσιογράφους, «υπάρχει χώρος στα δρομολόγια του εσωτερικού για την EasyJet».

Πηγή: http://www.capital.gr/Articles.asp?id=1061476

ovem

October 7th, 2010, 11:13 PM

Για Μαδρίτη και Βαρκελώνη θα κάνει τίποτα η EasyJet;

Grk101

October 8th, 2010, 12:07 AM

Exactly what was expected/speculated. A low cost carrier (easyjet in this case) swooping in and providing the competition for the merged airline. If they act fast, this may actually help Aegean and Olympic merge. They could argue that there is plenty of competition now. (From easyjet) Of course though, this is also maybe a negative for A3/OA who may have trouble competing against a LCC. I mean they couldn't even efficiently compete against each other. Hence the merger. But it will definitely benefit the customers who will be able to fly for low prices.

Για Μαδρίτη και Βαρκελώνη θα κάνει τίποτα η EasyJet;
If they end up establishing a base in Athens and building their operations, you can probably bet they will launch new routes. Right now, they fly from Athens to Berlin-Schönefeld, London-Gatwick, Manchester, Milan-Malpensa, Paris-Orly, and Rome-Fiumicino.

pilotos

October 8th, 2010, 12:29 PM

When Aegean joined Star back in June, the Star Alliance CEO had confirmed to reporters that the enlarged airline carrying the Olympic name will still be part of Star Alliance. He also joked that Skyteam lost the battle. (Since OA was going toward them) :lol:

Anyway, regardless of the name, there are so many rumors flying around in the Greek aviation forums. I honestly think its just users presenting their opinions as facts.

I have read so many things recently, that they all seem to contradict themselves. And they all seem to say that their information is "from inside sources". :nuts: Stuff like the airlines knowing the merger will not go through and setting themselves up for a quasi-merger to operate as domestic and long haul airlines like you mentioned (which wouldn't be allowed regardless by the anti-competition authority. They would still get into major trouble by the EU) to them hiring the top lawyers to be sure that the merger will go through and preparing for an expansion. And then others say they are merging to be more appealing for a larger European airline to buy them later. (Lufthansa prob.) :tongue3:

I guess only time will tell what happens. The last date for a decision/ruling is expected in 2 months exactly. Whichever name they choose in the end, the merger is for the best to strengthen the airlines IMO. Even if any competition will be lost, it will most likely open up a spot for a low cost airline to set up base in ATH. (Which is speculated)

None argued that the merged company will ofc stay in star Alliance, unfortunately for me :D

I suppose we read the same forums:)But some of these rumors sound pretty logical if you ask me, but in any case the name is not the most important indeed. I also agree the merge is for the better, especially for those flying abroad, the internal gap will be eventually covered for sure.

As for the competition authority, i guess they also just wait to see whether they ll merge or not, and then to take necessary measures, but as i already told whats going on right now with fleet and flights clearly indicates the preparations for a merge as soon as possible.

But i really think that it would be fine to follow united recipe, colors of Olympic and name of Aegean, pretty unique and Greek for the lovers of the old days:)

YU-AMC

October 14th, 2010, 09:56 AM

Grk101

October 19th, 2010, 05:01 AM

OA is heading back to Belgrade to replace Aegean by the end of this year.

BTW, AC strongly considering ATH all year round. They just need to figure out would it be YUL or YYZ. The luck of aircraft is an issue as well.

Great news about Air Canada considering to go year round! I am sure a code-share with Aegean would really help as well.

But OA is starting Belgrade again? How will that work? The only reason they stopped flying the route is because the Hellenic Civil Aviation Authority gave the traffic rights to Aegean. I think the current bilateral agreement with Serbia only calls for 1 airline operating from each country. Unless maybe the HCAA has agreed to give Olympic the rights again now that Aegean announced they are cutting the route? Good luck to OA though. From what it seems, they did well on the route. Before they were forced to give it up, I think they were planning a 2nd daily flight.

On a similar note, it seems Greece and Israel have just signed a new civil aviation bilateral agreement. Like Serbia, the current agreement with Israel calls for only 1 airline from each nation to operate flights. The new deal now allows 2 airlines from each country to operate flights. (by the way, this route was also taken away from Olympic and given to Aegean earlier this year)

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/business/israel-greece-sign-aviation-pact-first-treaty-in-60-years-1.319911
Israel, Greece sign aviation pact, first treaty in 60 years
By DPA

Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman and his visiting Greek counterpart, Dimitris Droutsas, signed an aviation treaty yesterday, amid signs of strengthening ties between Jerusalem and Athens. This was the first treaty to be signed between the two nations since 1952, a Foreign Ministry statement said. The deal paves the way for, among other things, two carriers to service each side for each destination instead of just one.....................Droutsas told the press that the number of Israeli tourists, many of whom now shun popular Turkish tourist destinations such as Antalya, who visited Greece in 2010 had reached 250,000 in October, compared to 155,000 in all of 2009.

Grk101

October 21st, 2010, 08:41 PM

Well this is an interesting twist. The EU has deferred the Aegean-Olympic merger verdict until January. (January 12 according to some news outlets) Their previous deadline was December 7, 2010. The last line of the article is particularly interesting. It is what we were speculating, and shows that the two companies are actually trying to make it work. (Despite some theories that the airlines know for sure they will not be able to merge and are preparing for a plan b) This is certainly good news for the airlines as it gives the impression that the merger may actually go through.

But at the same time, the delayed verdict means they will most likely not be able to merge as fast as they wanted to. They wanted to be merged by Summer 2011 to reap the benefits of the merger right away, but normally, flight schedules must be put into the system by November of the previous year I think.

EU Defers Olympic, Aegean Merger Verdict

The European Commission’s antitrust chief said Thursday that the executive has delayed its decision on the merger between the two largest Greek airlines, Aegean Airlines and Olympic Air to January 2011.

“The second-phase investigation is under way and the final decision is planned for January 2011. The big difficulty here is that the two companies hold almost all the domestic market in Greece,” Commissioner Joaquin Almunia said in a speech in Brussels.

“It is worth noting that one of the only two mergers that the Commission blocked under Nelly Kroes΄s mandate was the Air Lingus-Ryanair case, which had some similarities with this one,” he added.

The commission typically defers deadlines when companies offer to take steps that would ease concerns.

http://english.capital.gr/News.asp?id=1070737

YU-AMC

October 23rd, 2010, 08:36 AM

Some info from airliners says that the load factor had been 90%+. An 763 seems to be quite a right choice to do ATH-YUL/YYZ. Overall not a bad idea considering that AC will get some B787 around 2012/2013. That would be spot on for Greece - Canada market.

Going back to Belgrade and OA, I think OA had served BEG for quite some time. I would preffer OA over A3. I have been told that Aegean was using an Avro RJ100 which was just too big for ATH-BEG when you factor in Jat Airways being a competitor. OA with some fresh Q400s would be a better move imho. Lets see.

Great news about Air Canada considering to go year round! I am sure a code-share with Aegean would really help as well.

But OA is starting Belgrade again? How will that work? The only reason they stopped flying the route is because the Hellenic Civil Aviation Authority gave the traffic rights to Aegean. I think the current bilateral agreement with Serbia only calls for 1 airline operating from each country. Unless maybe the HCAA has agreed to give Olympic the rights again now that Aegean announced they are cutting the route? Good luck to OA though. From what it seems, they did well on the route. Before they were forced to give it up, I think they were planning a 2nd daily flight.

On a similar note, it seems Greece and Israel have just signed a new civil aviation bilateral agreement. Like Serbia, the current agreement with Israel calls for only 1 airline from each nation to operate flights. The new deal now allows 2 airlines from each country to operate flights. (by the way, this route was also taken away from Olympic and given to Aegean earlier this year)

Grk101

November 19th, 2010, 04:30 PM

FROM: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-17/almunia-says-difficulties-with-greek-airline-deal-update1-.html

Almunia Says ‘Difficulties’ With Greek Airline Deal
By Aoife White - Nov 17, 2010 9:48 AM ET

Aegean Airlines SA, Greece’s biggest carrier, and Olympic Air SA still face “some difficulties” in their efforts to overcome antitrust concerns over a planned merger, the European Union’s competition chief said.

“We have still time, weeks, ahead of us, to find an adequate solution,” EU Competition Commissioner Joaquin Almunia told journalists in Brussels today. “If we cannot find a solution that will avoid competition problems, we will react accordingly.”

The European Commission, the EU’s executive arm, started an in-depth antitrust review of the plan in July amid concerns that combining the two Athens-based airlines would hurt competition. The regulator is scheduled to rule on the merger by Jan. 12.

Roula Saloutsi, an Aegean Airlines spokeswoman, declined to comment. Olympic Air officials could not be reached for comment.

ovem

November 20th, 2010, 01:57 PM

Ξέρετε τ σκέφτομαι; Με τη συγχώνευση μπάι μπάι παλιές καλες Aegean τιμές. Μονοπόλιο!!

kostya

November 21st, 2010, 09:45 PM

^^ Είχε ποτέ καλές η Aegean? Ίσως όταν ήμουν μικρός... :D

EngineerGreece

November 21st, 2010, 09:49 PM

^^

Είχε και ακόμα έχει. Απλά πρέπει να κλείσεις τα εισιτήρια πολύ νωρίς. Όσο νωρίτερα καλύτερα...

Picasso82gr

November 21st, 2010, 10:01 PM

Στη γραμμή Αθήνα-Κέρκυρα έχει μείνει μόνο η Aegean τώρα, και οι τιμές ανέβηκαν πολύ.
Πριν έβρισκες με 50-70 ευρώ πηγαιμό αυθημερόν, τώρα μιλάμε για 100+...
Και αν είναι για το booking των εισητηρίων να το κάνουμε μήνες πριν όπως για ryan/easy/vueling όπου είναι low-cost... μάμησέ τα, υποτίθεται ότι δεν είναι αυτό το νόημα "κανονικής" αεροπορικής.

Είμαι υπέρ της συγχώνευσης, αλλά βλέποντας αυτά δε βλέπω την ώρα να έρθουν οι παραπάνω να φέρουν τον ανταγωνισμό.

EngineerGreece

November 21st, 2010, 10:02 PM

^^

Γιαυτό συγχωνεύονται. Γιατί αργά ή γρήγορα θα έρθουν και ξένες εταιρίες.

ovem

November 21st, 2010, 10:44 PM

^^ Είχε ποτέ καλές η Aegean? Ίσως όταν ήμουν μικρός... :D

Η aegean είχε τις φθηνότερες για Ισπανία πχ. με αρκετή διαφορά απο την ΙBERIA και με τεράστια διαφορά απο την ολυμπιακή. Επίσης, είχε φθηνές εσωτερικού και μονίμως προσφορές για εσωτερικό και εξωτερικό.

Υ.Γ.
Για όποιον ενδιαφέρεται, 430 ευρώ Aθηνα - Νέα Υόρκη μεσω Kιέβου.

kostya

November 21st, 2010, 11:02 PM

^^

Είχε και ακόμα έχει. Απλά πρέπει να κλείσεις τα εισιτήρια πολύ νωρίς. Όσο νωρίτερα καλύτερα...

Όντως, είχα κλείσει μια φορά για Αθήνα-Θεσσαλονίκη με 115 ευρώ και μου είχε κακοφανεί :ohno:

nastyathenian

November 26th, 2010, 12:22 PM

Grk101

November 27th, 2010, 04:01 AM

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6AL0R820101122

Greece's Aegean Air sees full-year loss, cites crisis
Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:10am EST

* Aegean nine-month loss at 8.4 million euros
* Says recession has hurt air traffic
* Warns of full-year loss

ATHENS, Nov 22 (Reuters) - Aegean Airlines (AGNr.AT), Greece's largest carrier, posted an 8.4 million euro ($11.5 million) loss in the first nine months of the year, hurt by an economic crisis at home.

Aegean, which agreed in February to team up with former state carrier Olympic Air to cut costs, said on Monday domestic passenger volume had dropped by an annual 15 percent to 2.5 million flights, as Greeks cut travel spending.

"Our financial performance continues to be adversely affected by the severe recession of the Greek economy," Managing Director Dimitris Gerogiannis said in a statement, adding that Greek consumers had become more "price-sensitive".

Aegean's results were also burdened by a 6.6 million euro tax charge imposed by Greece's cash-strapped government on big business.

Full-year results will also be in the red, Gerogiannis warned. "The fourth and seasonally weak quarter is expected to be loss-making, leading with certainty to a substantially negative result for the year as a whole," he said in the statement.

European Union regulators are still seeking concessions from Aegean and Olympic [OLY.UL] before deciding whether to allow their planned merger. [ID:nLDE6AG15S] (Reporting by Renee Maltezou; Editing by David Holmes) ($1=.7312 Euro)

EngineerGreece

November 27th, 2010, 02:11 PM

^^

Πρέπει να κατεβάσουν τις τιμές τους όσο το επιτρέπει η τιμή των καυσίμων και να κόψουν κιάλες άγονες γραμμές.

Clemence

December 4th, 2010, 11:32 PM

Εδώ βλέπουμε την κίνηση των αεροδρομίων της Ελλάδας:

http://s.enet.gr/resources/2010-11/4gr2-thumb-medium.jpg

http://www.enet.gr/?i=news.el.politikh&id=227682

Καλή και η ιδιωτικοποίηση, όμως μερικά πρέπει να κλείσουν τελείως. Κοζάνη και Καστοριά είναι τελείως άχρηστα με τους σούπερ αυτοκινητόδρομους που έχουν κατασκευαστεί. Επίσης τα νησιά που δεν έχουν καταφέρει να προσελκύσουν τσάρτερ (Σύρος, Κάλυμνος, Κάσος, Σκύρος κ.λπ.) πρέπει να πάνε άπατα. Οι καλομαθημένοι ντόπιοι μπορούν να εξυπηρετηθούν μια χαρά με τα πλοία, όπως εξυπηρετούνται οι νησιώτες που δεν έχουν αεροδρόμιο!

και εμείς στη ρόδο να δεις φάση, που για να κάνουμε μια δουλειά στην αθήνα και να ξαναγυρίσουμε θέλαμε και πολλές πτήσεις κάθε μέρα. τώρα η ολ/aegean φρόντισε να μας βγάλει απ΄το λήθαργο και την χλιδή στην οποία ζούσαμε και να μας σκληραγωγήσει αλά αρχαία σπάρτη: ξυπνάμε από τις 02.00 για να φύγουμε στις 05.00 για να έρθουμε για δουλειά μια που οι τελευταίες βραδυνές πτήσεις καταργήθηκαν. έτσι νοιώθουμε περισσότερο εργατικοί και σε φόρμα!

nasty έχεις μείνει ποτέ σε νησί της ελλάδας και τα λες αυτά? έχεις ιδέα του τι ανάγκες μπορεί να έχει ένας άνθρωπος και να χρειάζεται να φύγει με αεροπλάνο? μου κάνει εντύπωση πως μια χώρα σαν την ελλάδα, με τόσα νησιά, έχει τόσο λίγη αίσθηση ευθύνης γι΄αυτά. μήπως νομίζεις ότι είναι εναλλακτική οι 25 ώρες πλοίου από αθήνα για κάρπαθο?

kostya

December 4th, 2010, 11:38 PM

..Μα διαφορετικά δεν θα λεγόταν nastyathenian..

EngineerGreece

December 5th, 2010, 02:52 AM

^^

:lol:

nastyathenian

December 5th, 2010, 12:15 PM

nasty έχεις μείνει ποτέ σε νησί της ελλάδας και τα λες αυτά? έχεις ιδέα του τι ανάγκες μπορεί να έχει ένας άνθρωπος και να χρειάζεται να φύγει με αεροπλάνο? μου κάνει εντύπωση πως μια χώρα σαν την ελλάδα, με τόσα νησιά, έχει τόσο λίγη αίσθηση ευθύνης γι΄αυτά. μήπως νομίζεις ότι είναι εναλλακτική οι 25 ώρες πλοίου από αθήνα για κάρπαθο?
Έχω υπηρετήσει σε νησί. Όσες φορές πήγα και ήρθα ήταν με το πλοίο και μάλιστα κατάστρωμα! 12 ώρες ταξίδι με αρκετό κούνημα μεσοπέλαγα! Ποτέ δεν μου πέρασε από το μυαλό να πάω με αεροπλάνο.
Πολλές φορές μάλιστα έβγαινε απαγορευτικό και το νησί απομονωνόταν! Μια φορά εκεί που περίμενα στο λιμάνι ανακοινώθηκε τελευταία στιγμή ότι το πλοίο θα έφευγε από το άλλο λιμάνι του νησιού που ήταν πιο απάνεμο. Ευτυχώς που βρέθηκε ένας ντόπιος και με μετέφερε με το φορτηγάκι, ειδάλλως θα έχανα το πλοίο!

Clemence

December 5th, 2010, 10:53 PM

Έχω υπηρετήσει σε νησί. Όσες φορές πήγα και ήρθα ήταν με το πλοίο και μάλιστα κατάστρωμα! 12 ώρες ταξίδι με αρκετό κούνημα μεσοπέλαγα! Ποτέ δεν μου πέρασε από το μυαλό να πάω με αεροπλάνο.
Πολλές φορές μάλιστα έβγαινε απαγορευτικό και το νησί απομονωνόταν! Μια φορά εκεί που περίμενα στο λιμάνι ανακοινώθηκε τελευταία στιγμή ότι το πλοίο θα έφευγε από το άλλο λιμάνι του νησιού που ήταν πιο απάνεμο. Ευτυχώς που βρέθηκε ένας ντόπιος και με μετέφερε με το φορτηγάκι, ειδάλλως θα έχανα το πλοίο!

το πλοίο και τα 12ωρα +/- καθυστερήσεις είναι πολυτέλειες για όσους από μας ζούν και εργάζονται μόνιμα εδώ. όταν έχεις μια μέρα για να ανέβεις και να επιστρέψεις, δε μπορείς να τα απολαμβάνεις αυτά. προσωπικά χαλαρώνω απίστευτα στο πλοίο, αλλά μόνο όταν έχω πάνω από 4-5 μέρες άδεια. τώρα αν το θεωρείς έξυπνο να στερήσεις από τα ΝΗΣΙΑ την εναλλακτική του αεροπλάνου, τι να πω. σίγουρα δεν είσαι ο μόνος, και εγώ αν ήμουν μια καλοβολεμένη στεριανή θα αδιαφορούσα. αλλά αν υπήρχε επιλογή να πληρώναμε όλοι μαζί τα ελλείμματα του ΟΣΕ ή των άγονων γραμμών, νομίζω πιο λογικό θα ήταν να δώσουμε μια προτεραιότητα στις άγονες. λέμε τώρα ...

EngineerGreece

December 6th, 2010, 01:32 PM

Μια λύση είναι τα υδροπλάνα...

nastyathenian

December 6th, 2010, 02:02 PM

τώρα αν το θεωρείς έξυπνο να στερήσεις από τα ΝΗΣΙΑ την εναλλακτική του αεροπλάνου, τι να πω. σίγουρα δεν είσαι ο μόνος, και εγώ αν ήμουν μια καλοβολεμένη στεριανή θα αδιαφορούσα.
Μα δεν μίλησα για το δικό σου νησί που είναι μία από τις ναυαρχίδες του ελληνικού τουρισμού!
Όμως η Κάσος και η Αστυπάλαια τι το θέλουν το αεροδρόμιο;
Το Καστελλόριζο δεν το βάζω στη λίστα γιατί είναι ειδική περίπτωση. Πώς θα πηγαίνει ο Γιωργάκης να κάνει τις σοβαρές ανακοινώσεις αν δεν υπάρχει αεροδρόμιο; :colgate:
Πάνε 1000 άτομα και κατοικούν σε ένα ξερονήσι και μετά ζητάνε να τους φτιάξει το κράτος νοσοκομείο, πανεπιστήμιο, αεροδρόμιο και ό,τι άλλο φανταστούν. :ohno:

ovem

December 6th, 2010, 02:18 PM

Για το πανεπιστήμιο συμφωνώ. Αλλά κάθε νησί πρέπει να έχει και νοσοκομείο και αεροδρόμιο.

EngineerGreece

December 6th, 2010, 04:27 PM

Εγώ νομίζω ότι η καλύτερη και πιο λογική λύση είναι τα μεγαλύτερα νησιά να έχουν αεροδρόμια (και αυτά με μεγάλη τουριστική κίνηση) και τα υπόλοιπα να έχουν υδροπλάνα, και ελικόπτερα σε περιπτώσεις ανάγκης και άσχημου καιρού. Αεροδρόμια και Νοσοκομεία σε όλα τα νησιά είναι κάπως αδύνατο (ακόμα και χρήματα να είχες) άσε που για να φτιάξεις αεροδρόμιο χρειάζεσαι και χώρο :nuts:

Grk101

December 10th, 2010, 10:45 PM

Looks like the decision was pushed back again! This time to 2/2/2010. This article below provides some speculation:

Αρχές Φεβρουαρίου η απόφαση της Ευρωπαϊκής Επιτροπής Ανταγωνισμού
Νέα παράταση στη συγχώνευση Aegean –Ολυμπιακής

10/12/2010 06:11

Για τις αρχές Φεβρουαρίου μετατίθεται η τύχη του σχεδίου συγχώνευσης μεταξύ της Ολυμπιακής και της Aegean καθώς τότε αναμένεται να ανακοινωθεί –εκτός απροόπτου- η απόφαση της Ευρωπαϊκής Επιτροπής Ανταγωνισμού.

Πρόκειται για την δεύτερη αναβολή που αποφασίζει η αρμόδια επιτροπή το τελευταίο διάστημα καθώς η προηγούμενη είχε δοθεί στις 20 Οκτωβρίου και προέβλεπε τη λήψη απόφασης στις 12 Ιανουαρίου. Η αρχική ήταν για τις 7 Δεκεμβρίου.

Το γεγονός ότι υπάρχει νέα καθυστέρηση ενώ η υπόθεση διερευνάται από τον περασμένο Ιούλιο, αποδεικνύει την δυσκολία του εγχειρήματος, που δεν έχει κρύψει άλλωστε ούτε ο αρμόδιος Επίτροπός Χοακίν Αλμούνια, λέγοντας στο παρελθόν «ότι το μεγάλο πρόβλημα είναι ότι οι δύο εταιρείες ελέγχουν ολόκληρη σχεδόν την εσωτερική αγορά».

Όσο περνά ο καιρός και η ΕΕ «σκαλίζει» την υπόθεση φουντώνει και η αγωνία στα δύο στρατόπεδα των αεροπορικών εταιρειών που κινδυνεύουν να χάσουν από τις παρατάσεις τον σχεδιασμό των θερινών δρομολογίων.

Οι διοικήσεις των εταιρειών πιέζουν προς όλες τις κατευθύνσεις ώστε το deal να έχει αίσιο τέλος. Ωστόσο οι πληροφορίες αναφέρουν ότι η υπόθεση παραμένει ακόμη ανοικτή και ότι οι πιθανότητες να γύρει προς τη μία ή την άλλη πλευρά, είναι 50%-50%.

Ίσως για αυτό βρέθηκε τις προηγούμενες μέρες στο υπουργείο Υποδομών και στο γραφείο του υφυπουργού κ. Σπύρου Βούδια, ο Διευθύνων Σύμβουλος της Aegean κ. Ευτύχης Βασιλάκης.
Παρά το γεγονός ότι αρμόδιες κυβερνητικές υποβαθμίζουν την επίσκεψη λέγοντας ότι ήταν εθιμοτυπικού χαρακτήρα, είναι φανερό ότι το αφεντικό της Aegean θέλει να εξαντλήσει όλα τα περιθώρια των πιέσεων για να προχωρήσει το deal.

Στην κυβέρνηση πάντως δηλώνουν αισιόδοξοι και εκτιμούν ότι η συμφωνία θα πάρει τελικά την έγκριση της Κομισιόν. Εάν τελικά προχωρήσει το σχέδιο, ο νέος αερομεταφορέας θα κατέχει ηγετική θέση στην ελληνική αγορά, με 64 αεροσκάφη και 5.850 εργαζομένους.
http://www.protothema.gr/economy/article/?aid=94851

Clemence

December 18th, 2010, 11:01 PM

xmmmmmmmm:ohno:

Grk101

December 29th, 2010, 01:33 PM

It seems that the European commission is now in a rush to announce their decision for the merger:

Αρχές του 2011 η απόφαση της Κομισιόν για Olympic-Aegean
NAFTEMPORIKI.GR Τετάρτη, 29 Δεκεμβρίου 2010 10:50

Τη διαβεβαίωση, ότι το αποτέλεσμα της έρευνας που διεξάγει η Κομισιόν για τη σχεδιαζόμενη συγχώνευση μεταξύ Olympic Air και Aegean Airlines [AGNr.AT] Σχετικά άρθρα - και αναμένεται να ανακοινωθεί τον Ιανουάριο του 2011 - δεν θα είναι εις βάρος των καταναλωτών και των επιχειρήσεων, έδωσε ο Χοακίν Αλμούνια.

Απαντώντας σε σχετική ερώτηση που είχαν καταθέσει οι ευρωβουλευτές της ΝΔ κκ. Κώστας Πουπάκης και Γιώργος Κουμουτσάκος, ο αντιπρόεδρος της Ευρωπαϊκής Επιτροπής και Επίτροπος Ανταγωνισμού επεσήμανε ότι «εάν εντοπιστούν προβλήματα στον ανταγωνισμό, τότε η Επιτροπή θα εξασφαλίσει ότι τα μέρη θα τα αντιμετωπίσουν με την ανάληψη των κατάλληλων δεσμεύσεων».

Όπως σημείωσε ο κ. Αλμούνια, «η δυσκολία της υπόθεσης συγχώνευσης Olympic Air και Aegean Airlines έγκειται στο γεγονός ότι οι δύο εταιρείες κατέχουν σχεδόν το σύνολο της εγχώριας αγοράς αερομεταφορών επιβατών στην Ελλάδα».

Ο ευρωπαίος Επίτροπος ανέφερε ότι «ο χρόνος έχει αρχίσει να μετράει αντίστροφα» για την ανακοίνωση της απόφασης της Επιτροπής.

http://www.naftemporiki.gr/news/cstory.asp?id=1915245

Κομισιόν: Στις αρχές του έτους η απόφαση για τη συγχώνευση Olympic Air και Aegean Airlines

Η απόφαση της Κομισιόν για τη σχεδιαζόμενη συγχώνευση Olympic Air και Aegean Airlines, αναμένεται να ανακοινωθεί τον Ιανουάριο του 2011 και δε θα είναι εις βάρος των καταναλωτών και των επιχειρήσεων, όπως δήλωσε ο Αντιπρόεδρος της Ευρωπαϊκής Επιτροπής και αρμόδιος Επίτροπος για την Πολιτική Ανταγωνισµού, Χοακίν Αλμούνια.

Σε ερώτηση των ευρωβουλευτών της Νέας Δημοκρατίας, Κώστα Πουπάκη και Γιώργου Κουμουτσάκου με αφορμή τους προβληματισμούς για τη διαμόρφωση μονοπωλιακών συνθηκών στις ελληνικές αερομεταφορές, ο Αλμούνια επιβεβαίωσε ότι η δυσκολία της υπόθεσης “έγκειται στο γεγονός ότι οι δύο εταιρείες κατέχουν σχεδόν το σύνολο της εγχώριας αγοράς αερομεταφορών επιβατών”.

Επεσήμανε ότι στο πλαίσιο της ερευνητικής διαδικασίας που είναι σε εξέλιξη, "εντάσσεται τόσο η αγορά υποχρεωτικής παροχής δημόσιας υπηρεσίας σε διαδρομές στην Ελλάδα, όσο και η αγορά παροχής υπηρεσιών εδάφους σε ορισμένους ελληνικούς αερολιμένες".

Η πρόθεση της Επιτροπής να παρέμβει στο θέμα, είναι ενδεικτική της σημασίας που επιδεικνύει για την αποφυγή των επιπτώσεων από την λειτουργία μιας μονοπωλιακής αγοράς αλλά και για τη διασφάλιση ότι "η σταθεροποίηση του κλάδου (αερομεταφορών) δεν θα πραγματοποιηθεί εις βάρος των καταναλωτών και των επιχειρήσεων", επεσήμαναν οι δύο ευρωβουλευτές.

http://www.enet.gr/?i=news.el.kosmos&id=236918

nmk2600

December 31st, 2010, 06:36 PM

It would be very interesting to se a three-way merging between aegean, olympic and cyprus airways.

Klonfer

January 12th, 2011, 12:45 PM

Grk101

January 16th, 2011, 11:47 PM

Could someone please give me info on number of passengers in 2010 carried by Greek carriers: Olympic and Aegean? If there are no official statistics yet, feel free to give me an educated guess/estimate.

Also, are there any other airportsin Greece with more than 1 million pax, besides Athens, Heraklion and Thessaloniki?

Thank you in advance!

Greetings to Greek people from Serbia!

The 2010 numbers are not out yet, but according to Association of European Airlines, (via airliners.gr) up until October 2010, both airlines carried the following:

Aegean Airlines: 4,914,196 passengers
Olympic Air: 3,818,354 passengers

I would add at least 600,000 more passengers for November and December for both airlines, but who knows until the numbers are officially out. It could be more or it could be less. That is just my estimate.

Not sure about the airports.

Grk101

January 16th, 2011, 11:49 PM

The EU's decision is expected sometime this month on the Aegean-Olympic merger. There are a lot of articles being printing these days claiming to have inside information. Half of them say that the merger will go through, and half of them say the merger will be denied. We will have to wait and see.

blsb

January 17th, 2011, 01:07 PM

Could someone please give me info on number of passengers in 2010 carried by Greek carriers: Olympic and Aegean? If there are no official statistics yet, feel free to give me an educated guess/estimate.

Also, are there any other airportsin Greece with more than 1 million pax, besides Athens, Heraklion and Thessaloniki?

Thank you in advance!

Greetings to Greek people from Serbia!

Dobar dan.

Click on the following link (http://www.enet.gr/?i=news.el.politikh&id=227682) to have a look at a map recently published by the newspaper "Eleftherotypia". To be honest, I can't guarantee that the data is actual but given that Athens airport is said to have been used by more than 16 million passengers, it's highly possible that the map corresponds to passengers' traffic of 2009 or 2008.
With regards to your question and based on the data found in the above map, Greece appears to have seven airports with more than a million passengers.

Athens 16.138.377
Herakleio 5.052.840
Thessaloniki 4.104.195
Rhodes 3.470.111
Chania 1.795.466
Corfu 1.792.565
Kos 1.517.946

Puno pozdrava iz Beograda, ;)

blsb

nastyathenian

January 26th, 2011, 02:38 PM

Ξεχάστε τη συγχώνευση Ολυμπιακής-Aegean.

http://news.in.gr/economy/article/?aid=1231076058

EngineerGreece

January 26th, 2011, 03:20 PM

^^

Yep...

«Στοπ» από τις Βρυξέλλες στη συγχώνευση Olympic Air και Aegean Airlines
http://www.protothema.gr/economy/article/?aid=102332

Επιβεβαιώνοντας σχετικό δημοσίευμα του protothema.gr, η Ευρωπαϊκή Επιτροπή ανακοίνωσε την Τετάρτη ότι απαγορεύει, με βάση τον κανονισμό συγχωνεύσεων της ΕΕ, την προτεινόμενη συγχώνευση της Aegean Airlines με την Olympic Air, καθώς θα οδηγούσε σε οιονεί μονοπώλιο της ελληνικής αγοράς αεροπορικών μεταφορών.

Σύμφωνα με την ανακοίνωση της Κομισιόν, η συγχώνευση των δύο αεροπορικών εταιρειών θα είχε ως συνέπεια υψηλότερους ναύλους για τέσσερα από τα έξι εκατομμύρια Ελλήνων και Ευρωπαίων καταναλωτών που ταξιδεύουν σε δρομολόγια από και προς την Αθήνα κάθε χρόνο.

Οι δύο αεροπορικές εταιρείες ελέγχουν από κοινού ποσοστό μεγαλύτερο από το 90% της ελληνικής εγχώριας αγοράς αεροπορικών μεταφορών, επισημαίνει η Επιτροπή, σημειώνοντας ότι, ως εκ τούτου, εμποδίζουν την είσοδο νέων αεροπορικών εταιρειών στα εν λόγω δρομολόγια, συγκρατώντας τις τιμές που θα ίσχυαν, αν εγκρινόταν η συγχώνευση.

Σε σχετική ανακοίνωσή τους μετά τη γνωστοποίηση της απόφασης των Βρυξελλών, οι εταιρείες ΑΕΡΟΠΟΡΙΑ ΑΙΓΑΙΟΥ Α.Ε. και MARFIN INVESTMENT GROUP τονίζουν τα ακόλουθα: «Η Ευρωπαϊκή Επιτροπή γνωστοποίησε σήμερα, ύστερα από έρευνα που διήρκεσε 10 μήνες, την τελική απόφασή της σύμφωνα με την οποία δεν εγκρίνει την προτεινόμενη συγκέντρωση που αφορούσε τη συγχώνευση της Olympic Air με την AEGEAN όπως αυτή είχε συμφωνηθεί και γνωστοποιηθεί στις 22/02/2010».

»Η συναλλαγή είχε προσυμφωνηθεί μεταξύ των βασικών μετόχων της ΑΕΡΟΠΟΡΙΑ ΑΙΓΑΙΟΥ Α.Ε. και της MARFIN INVESTMENT GROUP την 22/02/2010, τελούσε όμως υπό την αίρεση της παροχής της εγκρίσεως της Ευρωπαϊκής Επιτροπής Ανταγωνισμού. Δεδομένης της ανωτέρω απόφασης της Ευρωπαϊκής Επιτροπής, η συμφωνία της 22/02/10 μεταξύ των δύο μερών λύεται».

Σχολιάζοντας την ανωτέρω εξέλιξη, ο πρόεδρος της AEGEAN κ. Θεόδωρος Βασιλάκης έκανε την ακόλουθη δήλωση: «Κατά το τελευταίο έτος παρουσιάσαμε στην ΕΕ τα οφέλη από τη συγχώνευση για τις εταιρείες μας, αλλά και για το επιβατικό κοινό και την οικονομία της χώρας. Παράλληλα, προσφέραμε σημαντικές διαβεβαιώσεις για την προστασία των καταναλωτών, καθώς και διευκολύνσεις για την είσοδο νέων ανταγωνιστών στην εσωτερική αγορά. Δυστυχώς, η ΕΕ κατέληξε στη μη έγκριση της συγκέντρωσης. Χάθηκε μία σημαντική ευκαιρία για ακόμη ισχυρότερη εκπροσώπηση στον ευρωπαϊκό κλάδο αερομεταφορών. Προσαρμοζόμαστε στις εξελίξεις και συνεχίζουμε. Η πορεία μας άλλωστε έχει δείξει ότι πετυχαίνουμε στα δύσκολα».

Από την πλευρά του, ο πρόεδρος της MARFIN INVESTMENT GROUP, κ. Ανδρέας Βγενόπουλος, έκανε την ακόλουθη δήλωση: «Η απόφαση της ΕΕ θα έχει αρνητικές επιπτώσεις τόσο για το επιβατικό κοινό όσο και για την οικονομία της χώρας μας, θα λειτουργήσει δε, υπέρ των συμφερόντων των αλλοδαπών ανταγωνιστών μας. Προφανώς κι εμείς, όπως και η AEGEAN, θα συνεχίσουμε να κάνουμε το καλύτερο δυνατόν για τα στελέχη και το προσωπικό μας, τους μετόχους μας και το επιβατικό κοινό».

«Οι εταιρείες» αναφέρεται τέλος στην ανακοίνωση, «θα μελετήσουν το κείμενο της απόφασης της ΕΕ, που σήμερα μόλις παραλαμβάνουν και κατόπιν προσεκτικής ανάλυσης και συζήτησης με τους συμβούλους τους, θα αποφασίσουν για τις τυχόν περαιτέρω ενέργειές τους στα πλαίσια των δυνατοτήτων που τους δίνει η κείμενη νομοθεσία».

χμμμ... Γιατί έχω την εντύπωση ότι οι μεγάλες εταιρίες της Ευρώπης δεν ήθελαν την συγχώνευση...? Λέω τώρα... Μακάρι να είναι όπως τα λέει η ΕΕ..

Grk101

January 26th, 2011, 04:00 PM

And in English:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/01/26/352352/ec-blocks-aegeanolympic-merger-on-monopoly-grounds.html

EC blocks Aegean/Olympic merger on monopoly grounds
By Kerry Reals

Olympic Air's proposed merger with Aegean Airlines has been blocked by the European Commission on monopoly grounds.

The EC says it made the decision because the merger would have created a "quasi-monopoly" in the Greek air transport market.

"Together the two carriers control more than 90% of the Greek domestic air transport market and the Commission's investigation showed no realistic prospects that a new airline of a sufficient size would enter the routes and restrain the merged entity's pricing," says the EC in a statement.

Olympic and Aegean had offered to shed some take-off and landing slots at Greek airports in a bid to gain EC approval for the deal.

However, the EC points out that Greek airports "do not suffer from the congestion observed at other European airports in previous mergers or alliances".

Aegean chairman Theodore Vassilakis says the decision means that "an important opportunity for a consolidated representation in the European aviation market has been lost".

He adds that Aegean will "adjust and continue". The airline plans to consult with its advisors to decide on "possible further actions within the framework of existing legislation".

Aegean and Olympic signed their tentative merger deal last February.

Let's see what their next moves are. For the past month there has been an underground rumor of an Olympic Air and Cyprus Airways merger if the Aegean merger did not pass. :bash: :nuts:

kostya

January 26th, 2011, 04:06 PM

Αν δεν ήταν τόσο...-γμτ τι λέξη να βάλω για να μην βρίσω- το δημόσιο και είχε την Ολυμπιακή σαν μια κανονική ανταγωνιστική εταιρεία δεν θα υπήρχε καν Aegean και δεν θα μιλούσαμε τώρα για συγχωνευσεις κλπ. Αλλά που μυαλό, τώρα κοιτάμε να λύσουμε προβλήματα που οι ίδιοι δημιουργήσαμε. Μια τρύπα στο νερό και εξέλιξη μηδεν. Γι'αυτό είμαστα στα σημερινά χάλια.

SonOfSparta

January 27th, 2011, 10:05 AM

from BBC

Olympic Air and Aegean merger is blocked by EU

Olympic plane The merger was first announced in February last year

The European Commission has blocked the proposed merger between Greece's Olympic Air and Aegean Airlines on the basis that it would create a "quasi-monopoly".

It said the merger would have led "to higher fares for four of the six million Greek and European passengers flying to and from Athens each year".

The merger was first announced in February last year.

The Commission blocked the merger of Ryanair and Aer Lingus in 2007.
'Higher prices'

It said Olympic and Aegean controlled more than 90% of the domestic Greek market.

There was "no realistic prospect" of any new airline being able to enter the market to "restrain" the merged airline's pricing, it found.

The two airlines offered to give up take-off and landing slots at Greek airports, but this was not enough to allay the Commission's concerns.

"The merger between Aegean and Olympic would have led to a quasi-monopoly in Greece and thus to higher prices and lower quality of service for Greeks and tourists travelling between Athens and the islands," said the Commission's vice-president of competition policy, Joaquin Almunia.

Olympic Air came into being on 1 October 2009 following the privatisation of Olympic Airways.

Pythagoras

January 27th, 2011, 04:55 PM

ovem

January 27th, 2011, 10:10 PM

Grk101

January 27th, 2011, 11:54 PM

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0127/1224288403410.html

EU regulators block merger of Greece's two biggest airlines

EU competition commissioner Joaquín Almunia in Brussels yesterday as the European Commission announced it would not allow a merger between Aegean Airlines and Olympic. Mr Almunia said the deal would create a "quasi-monopoly".EU competition commissioner Joaquín Almunia in Brussels yesterday as the European Commission announced it would not allow a merger between Aegean Airlines and Olympic. Mr Almunia said the deal would create a "quasi-monopoly".

EU REGULATORS have blocked the proposed merger of Greece’s Aegean Airlines and Olympic, the first veto in more than three years, saying a tie-up would have resulted in higher prices for consumers.

The last deal to be blocked also involved airlines, when the European Commission prevented Ryanair acquiring Aer Lingus in June 2007 because the deal would have meant less choice and higher prices.

Aegean and Olympic, which control more than 90 per cent of the Greek air market, had not offered sufficient remedies to ease competition concerns, the EU watchdog said.

“The merger between Aegean and Olympic would have led to a quasi-monopoly in Greece and thus to higher prices and lower quality of service for Greeks and tourists travelling between Athens and the islands,” EU competition commissioner Joaquín Almunia said.

Aviation and shipping services are crucial for Greeks and tourists because of the country’s more than 1,400 islands.

Tourism receipts, a key earner for recession-hit Greece, fell last year as anti-austerity protests discouraged visitors.

The airlines offered to cede take-off and landing slots in Greece, but the commission said this was not enough, as Greek airports do not suffer from the levels of congestion affecting others in Europe.

The carriers rejected suggestions they should give up part of their fleet or one of their two brand names to new entrants into the market, Mr Almunia said.

Aegean said the brand-name proposal was unacceptable.

“We did not accept conceding one of the two brands or part of the fleet as a remedy, this does not have a precedent in the history of airline mergers,” Aegean’s vice-chairman Eftyhios Vassilakis said.

“The brand names have a huge value, we built ours with hard work during the last 12 years and so did Olympic in the last 50 years.”

Olympic owner Marfin Investment Group criticised the commission’s decision.

“The commission’s decision will have negative consequences for consumers as well as our country’s economy while it will benefit foreign competitors,” Marfin chairman Andreas Vgenopoulos said in a statement. – (Reuters)

Pythagoras

January 30th, 2011, 12:15 AM

Ποιές χώρες έχουν αεροπορικές εταιρίες κολοσσους; Η Alitalia είναι παραπαίουσα χρόνια τώρα με πολύ κακές υπηρεσίες. Η Iberia είναι μέτρια και σώζεται μόνο λόγω Λατινικής Αμερικής. H TAP είναι ανύπαρκτη. Η νέα Ολυμπιακή και η Aegean είναι αιώνες μπροστά και γενικώς πολλές αεροπορικές εταιρίες είανι ΓΤΠ στην Ευρώπη. Τώρα αν μιλάς για British Airways, Air France και Lufthansa, ε... χαίρω πολύ. Μιλάμε για τις πιό ανεπτυγμένες χώρες τις ευρώπης με συνολικό πληθυσμό 200 εκατομμύρια και πτήσεις στις 5 ηπείρους. Η Ολυμπιακή και η Aegean έχουν να αξυπηρετήσουν πολύ μικρότερο αριθμό επιβατών και λόγω του πληθυσμού της χώρας μας. Και οι δύο εταιρίες είναι περισσότερο απο εξιοπρεπέστατες. Αμάν πια με αυτή την ξενομανία.

:hi:Καταρχάς, δεν μιλάω μόνο για Ευρώπη. Λοιπόν, εκτός από αυτές που ανέφερες...πάμε:

Malaysia Airlines, Thai Airways, Qatar Airways, Emirates, Turkish Airlines, KLM, Scandinavian Airlines, Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Air New Zealand, όλες οι Αμερικάνικες ( American, Delta, United, Continental, Northwest Airlines), British Airways, Qantas Airways, ANA (θα έλεγα και τη JAL λόγω προορισμών, αλλά έχει οικονομικά προβλήματα), Air China, Air Canada, Etihad Airways, and the list goes on...

Σίγουρα θα πεις...μα οι χώρες αυτών είναι τεράστιες πληθυσμιακά! Δεν θα το έλεγα όμως για χώρες όπως οι Σκανδιναβικές, η Νέα Ζηλανδία, τα Εμιράτα, το Κατάρ, η Σιγκαπούρη. Εξάλλου, δεν παίζει ρόλο ΜΟΝΟ ο πληθυσμός της χώρας. Πολλές πτήσεις από/προς Αμερική περνάνε από Amsterdam απλά και μόνο επειδή είναι hub airport της Delta. Και δεν είναι μόνο Σιγκαπουριανοί αυτοί που χρησιμοποιούν τη Singapore Airlines. Η Ελλάδα μπορεί να μην έχει μεγάλο πληθυσμό αλλά έχει δυο συγκριτικά πλεονεκτήματα. 1) Έχει τουρισμό 2) Βρίσκεται σε ένα πολύ καλό σημείο για να γίνει hub τριών ηπείρων. Φυσικά στο δεύτερο μάλλον μας νίκησαν οι Τούρκοι. Πιο αποτελεσματικοί βλέπεις. Και αν θέλεις να κάνεις συγκρίσεις με απλά νούμερα...δες αυτό:

Olympic Air: στόλος 29 και 43 προορισμοί.
TAP (η ανύπαρκτη που ανέφερες): στόλος 55 και 78 προορισμοί.
Brussels Airlines (ο εθνικός αερομεταφορέας μιας χώρας που βρίσκεται ανάμεσα σε Air France και KLM): στόλος 51 και 66 προορισμοί
Swiss Air: στόλος 76 και 157 προορισμοί
Finnair: στόλος 64 και 66 προορισμοί
Czech Airlines: στόλος 42 και 66 προορισμοί
Air Algerie: στόλος 39 και 68 προορισμοί
Aerolineas Argentinas: στόλος 42 και 56 προορισμοί
Austrian Airlines: στόλος 41 και 117 προορισμοί
Egypt Air: στόλος 72 και 79 προορισμοί

(οκ, μπορώ να δεχτώ συγκρίσεις και κριτικές σε επίπεδο service και προσωπικού).

Η Aegean είναι πολύ καλή και έχει το σεβασμό μου για αυτά που έχει πετύχει. Στον τομέα της σαν χαμηλού κόστους και κοντινών προορισμών εταιρεία είναι ΑΨΟΓΗ!

Από την άλλη όμως, η olympic air (όπως είναι αυτή τη στιγμή) συγκρίνεται σε στόλο και προορισμούς με αεροπορικές τύπου Kenya Airways, Bulgaria Air και Croatia Airlines.:) Απλά ΔΕΝ ΕΙΝΑΙ αυτό που θα έπρεπε να είναι. Εαν είχε προχωρήσει η συγχώνευση ίσως θα ήταν διαφορετικά τα πράγματα!!!

Πάντως περίμενα ότι εσύ θα ήσουν υπέρ της συγχώνευσης...:yes:

TheFlyingCat

January 30th, 2011, 01:45 PM

Τι να πω? Ότι χαίρομαι? Ψέμματα θα είναι... Όταν οι άλλες χώρες έχουν αεροπορικές εταιρείες κολοσσούς, εμείς θα μείνουμε με πτήσεις στυλ Ροδος - Αθήνα και στην καλύτερη Λονδίνο - Αθήνα.

Και όμως κάποτε η Ολυμπιακή είχε απευθείας πτήση Τόκυο-Αθήνα...

Έχω την εντύπωση ότι η Ε.Ε δεν έπαιξε καθαρά στο συγκεκριμένο θέμα. Δεν μπορώ να δεχτώ ότι είναι το θέμα το μονοπωλίου και της προστασίας των καταναλωτών που σταμάτησε την απόφαση. Όχι τουλάχιστον σε αυτόν τον τομέα...

Θεωρω πως η Ευρωπη σωστα επραξε. Δεν γινεται να εχουμε μονο μια εταιρεια στη χωρα. Οταν τα περιφερειακα αεροδρομια ιδιωτικοποιηθουν (και ο ΕλΒενιζελος ριξει λιγο τις τιμες), τοτε θα πεσουν τα κοστη και οι φοροι και τοτε θα μπορουν να ερθουν ολες οι λοκο (Ryanair, Easyjet,...) να ιδρυσουν βασεις στην Ελλαδα. Τοτε η συγχωνευση ΟΑ-Α3 θα μπορει να γινει. Τωρα ομως οχι.

Ποιές χώρες έχουν αεροπορικές εταιρίες κολοσσους; Η Alitalia είναι παραπαίουσα χρόνια τώρα με πολύ κακές υπηρεσίες. Η Iberia είναι μέτρια και σώζεται μόνο λόγω Λατινικής Αμερικής. H TAP είναι ανύπαρκτη. Η νέα Ολυμπιακή και η Aegean είναι αιώνες μπροστά και γενικώς πολλές αεροπορικές εταιρίες είανι ΓΤΠ στην Ευρώπη. Τώρα αν μιλάς για British Airways, Air France και Lufthansa, ε... χαίρω πολύ. Μιλάμε για τις πιό ανεπτυγμένες χώρες τις ευρώπης με συνολικό πληθυσμό 200 εκατομμύρια και πτήσεις στις 5 ηπείρους. Η Ολυμπιακή και η Aegean έχουν να αξυπηρετήσουν πολύ μικρότερο αριθμό επιβατών και λόγω του πληθυσμού της χώρας μας. Και οι δύο εταιρίες είναι περισσότερο απο εξιοπρεπέστατες. Αμάν πια με αυτή την ξενομανία.

Η ΤΑΡ ανυπαρκτη??? Που εχει ενα σωρο πτησεις προς σχεδον ολες τις μεγαλες πολεις της Βραζιλιας??? No way...
Εν πασει περιπτωσει, υπαρχουν χιλιαδες παραδειγματα με εταιρειες κολοσσους, οπως ειπε και ο Pythagoras, απλα να προσθεσω και εταιρειες της Λατινικης Αμερικης που αναπτυχθηκαν ραγδαια: LAN, TAM, Avianca, Copa, Aeromexico...

EngineerGreece

February 1st, 2011, 12:40 AM

Η νέα Ολυμπιακή και η Aegean είναι αιώνες μπροστά και γενικώς πολλές αεροπορικές εταιρίες είανι ΓΤΠ στην Ευρώπη.

Μα αυτός ακριβώς είναι ο λόγος που δεν της αφήσανε να ενωθούν. :)

ovem

February 1st, 2011, 03:00 AM

Παιδιά, όπως η Ιberia με τις ισπανόφωνες χώρες της Λ. Αμερικής έτσι και η TAP ζει απο τη Βραζιλία. Ε τι να κάνουμε. Δεν είχαμε αυτοκρατιρία για να φτιάξουμε τεράστια αεροπορική εταιρία. ;)

skyduster

February 1st, 2011, 07:32 AM

Dobar dan.

Click on the following link (http://www.enet.gr/?i=news.el.politikh&id=227682) to have a look at a map recently published by the newspaper "Eleftherotypia". To be honest, I can't guarantee that the data is actual but given that Athens airport is said to have been used by more than 16 million passengers, it's highly possible that the map corresponds to passengers' traffic of 2009 or 2008.
With regards to your question and based on the data found in the above map, Greece appears to have seven airports with more than a million passengers.

Athens 16.138.377
Herakleio 5.052.840
Thessaloniki 4.104.195
Rhodes 3.470.111
Chania 1.795.466
Corfu 1.792.565
Kos 1.517.946

Puno pozdrava iz Beograda, ;)

blsb

The Eleftherotypia article states that these figures are from 2009, but it appears that the article has slightly underestimated its figures.

Athens Eleftherios Venizelos' own website www.aia.gr places the 2009 passenger figures at 16.225.229. For 2008 it's 16.446.491. For 2010, only January-November data is available as of 31-1-2011, and it appears that there's a 4.3% drop in ATH's passenger numbers from the same time period in 2009.

It's always hard to find primary-source data on the other (non-ATH) airports, but Athens, Herakleio, Thessaloniki, Rhodes, Chania, Corfu, and Kos are always regarded as the big 7 airports with >1 million ppa. Zakynthos is a close 8th place, with over 900.000 ppa. Several other non-state publications confirm similar figures as the ones mentioned in the Eleftherotypia article.

skyduster

February 1st, 2011, 08:10 AM

Grk101

February 12th, 2011, 07:44 AM

Here is some interesting information according to a post on airliners.gr:

"Πέρα και πάνω από συγχωνεύσεις, το 2010 φαίνεται πως έκλεισε με μία αλλαγή στο photo-finish για τις δύο εταιρείες.

Παρότι λόγω μεγέθους η Α3 όλη τη χρονιά μετέφερε κάθε μήνα περισσότερους επιβάτες από την ΟΑ, το μήνα Νοέμβριο άρχισε η ανατροπή, όταν ο αριθμός των επιβατών που μετέφεραν ΟΑ και Α3 ήταν περίπου ίδιος (διαφορά 900 άτομα) ενώ το Δεκέμβριο η ΟΑ μετέφερε περισσότερους επιβάτες από την Α3 (με σημαντικά καλύτερο δείκτη πληρότητας >70% έναντι ~63% για την Α3).

Συνολικά, το 2010 η Α3 μετέφερε 5.711.200 εκ. επιβάτες (σε σχέση με 6.039.600 εκ. το 2009) με μέση πληρότητα 66.8% (έναντι 65.2% του 2009).
Η ΟΑ το 2010 μετέφερε 4.627.700 εκ. επιβάτες με μέση πληρότητα 67.7%. (Το 2009 "μεικτά" πΟΑ+νΟΑ μετέφεραν 4.662.800 επιβάτες με μέση πληρότητα 58.2%)"

Billy8181

March 2nd, 2011, 01:19 PM

«Κόβει» το Λονδίνο και το Παρίσι η Olympic Air
Ετοιμάζει προσφυγή εναντίον της απόφασης της Κομισιόν μαζί με την Aegean
http://www.enet.gr/?i=news.el.ellada&id=255956

???

o periferiakos prosanatolismos kalo einai?

kopikan ta intercontinental, tora kai ta eyropaika?

kati tha xeroun....(?)

Billy8181

March 2nd, 2011, 01:23 PM

:hi:Καταρχάς, δεν μιλάω μόνο για Ευρώπη. Λοιπόν, εκτός από αυτές που ανέφερες...πάμε:

Malaysia Airlines, Thai Airways, Qatar Airways, Emirates, Turkish Airlines, KLM, Scandinavian Airlines, Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific, Air New Zealand, όλες οι Αμερικάνικες ( American, Delta, United, Continental, Northwest Airlines), British Airways, Qantas Airways, ANA (θα έλεγα και τη JAL λόγω προορισμών, αλλά έχει οικονομικά προβλήματα), Air China, Air Canada, Etihad Airways, and the list goes on...

Σίγουρα θα πεις...μα οι χώρες αυτών είναι τεράστιες πληθυσμιακά! Δεν θα το έλεγα όμως για χώρες όπως οι Σκανδιναβικές, η Νέα Ζηλανδία, τα Εμιράτα, το Κατάρ, η Σιγκαπούρη. Εξάλλου, δεν παίζει ρόλο ΜΟΝΟ ο πληθυσμός της χώρας. Πολλές πτήσεις από/προς Αμερική περνάνε από Amsterdam απλά και μόνο επειδή είναι hub airport της Delta. Και δεν είναι μόνο Σιγκαπουριανοί αυτοί που χρησιμοποιούν τη Singapore Airlines. Η Ελλάδα μπορεί να μην έχει μεγάλο πληθυσμό αλλά έχει δυο συγκριτικά πλεονεκτήματα. 1) Έχει τουρισμό 2) Βρίσκεται σε ένα πολύ καλό σημείο για να γίνει hub τριών ηπείρων. Φυσικά στο δεύτερο μάλλον μας νίκησαν οι Τούρκοι. Πιο αποτελεσματικοί βλέπεις. Και αν θέλεις να κάνεις συγκρίσεις με απλά νούμερα...δες αυτό:

Olympic Air: στόλος 29 και 43 προορισμοί.
TAP (η ανύπαρκτη που ανέφερες): στόλος 55 και 78 προορισμοί.
Brussels Airlines (ο εθνικός αερομεταφορέας μιας χώρας που βρίσκεται ανάμεσα σε Air France και KLM): στόλος 51 και 66 προορισμοί
Swiss Air: στόλος 76 και 157 προορισμοί
Finnair: στόλος 64 και 66 προορισμοί
Czech Airlines: στόλος 42 και 66 προορισμοί
Air Algerie: στόλος 39 και 68 προορισμοί
Aerolineas Argentinas: στόλος 42 και 56 προορισμοί
Austrian Airlines: στόλος 41 και 117 προορισμοί
Egypt Air: στόλος 72 και 79 προορισμοί

(οκ, μπορώ να δεχτώ συγκρίσεις και κριτικές σε επίπεδο service και προσωπικού).

Η Aegean είναι πολύ καλή και έχει το σεβασμό μου για αυτά που έχει πετύχει. Στον τομέα της σαν χαμηλού κόστους και κοντινών προορισμών εταιρεία είναι ΑΨΟΓΗ!

Από την άλλη όμως, η olympic air (όπως είναι αυτή τη στιγμή) συγκρίνεται σε στόλο και προορισμούς με αεροπορικές τύπου Kenya Airways, Bulgaria Air και Croatia Airlines.:) Απλά ΔΕΝ ΕΙΝΑΙ αυτό που θα έπρεπε να είναι. Εαν είχε προχωρήσει η συγχώνευση ίσως θα ήταν διαφορετικά τα πράγματα!!!

Πάντως περίμενα ότι εσύ θα ήσουν υπέρ της συγχώνευσης...:yes:

+1 akrivos!

mai xara aegean kai olymbiaki ala aiones brosta !? eleos.......malon me to poso zesto einai to psomi teis vathmologoume...? :lol:

kostya

March 2nd, 2011, 01:29 PM

melaxrinos

March 2nd, 2011, 02:42 PM

Olympic Air: Αλλαγές στα δρομολόγια

Mε αναδιάρθρωση του πτητικού της έργου και ανασύνταξη του δικτύου της, προχωράει η Olympic Air, μετά και την απόφαση της Ευρωπαϊκής Επιτροπής να απορρίψει τη διαδικασία συγχώνευσης με την Aegean Arlines.

Στόχος, όπως αναφέρει σε ανακοίνωσή της είναι να ενισχύσει την ηγετική παρουσία της στην περιοχή της Νοτιοανατολικής Ευρώπης, εκμεταλλευόμενη το ανταγωνιστικό πλεονέκτημα της υψηλής ποιότητας του προϊόντος της.

Στο πλαίσιο αυτό το Διοικητικό Συμβούλιο της εταιρίας που συνεδρίασε υπό τη νέα του σύνθεση επανεξέτασε το πρόγραμμα δρομολογίων και διαμόρφωσε το πτητικό έργο ώστε αυτό να ανταποκρίνεται στο νέο στρατηγικό σχεδιασμό της.

Ειδικότερα, στο πρόγραμμα πτήσεων εσωτερικού προστίθενται τα δρομολόγια Αθήνα - Κέρκυρα, Αθήνα - Αλεξανδρούπολη, Θεσσαλονίκη - Ηράκλειο, Θεσσαλονίκη - Χανιά, Θεσσαλονίκη - Μυτιλήνη και Θεσσαλονίκη - Ρόδος. Παράλληλα, αναπροσαρμόζεται το διεθνές δίκτυο με τη διατήρηση ή και επέκταση των πτήσεων προς Άμστερνταμ, Βελιγράδι, Βουκουρέστι, Κάιρο, Κωνσταντινούπολη, Λάρνακα, Σόφια και Τίρανα ενώ παράλληλα θα διακοπούν τα δρομολόγια προς Βιέννη, Βρυξέλλες, Λονδίνο και Παρίσι.

Παράλληλα, διατηρούνται όλες οι υπάρχουσες συμφωνίες για πτήσεις κοινού κωδικού (code share) με την Delta όσον αφορά τις πτήσεις προς ΗΠΑ και την Etihad προς Αυστραλία και Νότιο Αφρική ενώ αξιολογούνται και νέες συμφωνίες με σκοπό την απρόσκοπτη εξυπηρέτηση του επιβατικού κοινού της εταιρίας.

Στην ανακοίνωση αναφέρεται επίσης ότι η Olympic Air μαζί με την Aegean θα προσφύγουν στα Ευρωπαϊκά Δικαστήρια κατά της απόφασης της Ευρωπαϊκής Επιτροπής Ανταγωνισμού με την οποία δεν είχε εγκριθεί η συγχώνευση των δύο ελληνικών αεροπορικών εταιρειών.

Ο Πρόεδρος της Olympic Air κ. Γιάννης Καρακαδάς τόνισε ότι κεντρικός και αδιαπραγμάτευτος στόχος παραμένει η παροχή υψηλότατου επιπέδου υπηρεσιών στο επιβατικό κοινό ενώ η ανασυγκρότηση του δικτύου της εταιρίας θα της επιτρέψει την αποτελεσματικότερη αντιμετώπιση των προκλήσεων.

http://www.sigmalive.com/inbusiness/news/services/360238

πρόκειται για το ίδιο θέμα που το βρήκα σε κυπριακό κανάλι

Grk101

March 3rd, 2011, 06:25 PM

As stated, big changes for Olympic Air following the EU rejection. There was a change with their board, and they have put forth a new business plan which calls for them to be a strong player in the Balkan region. They are cutting a lot of (historically profitable, maybe not so much anymore since they are cutting them) European routes, and adding some domestic routes and increasing regional routes.

Also they announced they are going to try to appeal the EU decision in the courts.

RelaxInPireaus

March 6th, 2011, 09:47 AM

OA will end up a domestic airline soon :s

Billy8181

March 6th, 2011, 01:55 PM

profitable but domestic........

idea mou einai i opote pame na kanoume kati se diethni epipedo .....to rixnoume sto domestic?

domestic = eggysi!! :bash::lol:

melaxrinos

March 11th, 2011, 12:41 PM

παρεπιπτόντως διάβασα ένα άρθρο από κυπριακό κανάλι ότι η aegean θέλει δημιουργήσει βάση στο αεροδρόμιο λάρνακας για τρία αεροσκάφη Airbus A320 και να προσθέσει πτήσεις από και προς αεροδρόμιο λάρνακας

πιο συγκεκριμένα θέλει να αυξήσει πτήσεις από και προς θεσσαλονίκη, να ξεκινήσει πτήσεις προς 6 προορισμούς σε ελληνικά νησιά και να ξεκινήσει και πτήσεις λάρνακα-χίθροου

εσείς μήπως έχετε ακούσει ή διαβάσει κάτι σχετικό?

http://www.sigmalive.com/inbusiness/news/services/362559

ellis896

March 23rd, 2011, 05:03 PM

Συνεργασία Olympic Air και Cyprus Airways

Η Olympic Air και η Cyprus Airways αποφάσισαν να ενώσουν τις δυνάμεις τους, στο πλαίσιο ευρύτατης συνεργασίας, προκειμένου να αντιμετωπίσουν τον ανταγωνισμό, αλλά και την κρίση που εξακολουθεί να πλήττει τον τομέα των αερομεταφορών.

Σχετική συμφωνία υπέγραψαν στη Λευκωσία οι πρόεδροι των Olympic Air και η Cyprus Airways, κ.κ. Γιάννης Καρακαδάς και Γιώργος Μαυρόκωστας αντίστοιχα...

Η συμφωνία προβλέπει την πραγματοποίηση απευθείας προγραμματισμένων πτήσεων κοινού κωδικού στο δίκτυο δρομολογίων τόσο της Olympic Air (εσωτερικού και εξωτερικού) όσο και των Κυπριακών Αερογραμμών.

Η συνεργασία ξεκινά στις 27 Μαρτίου, με πτήσεις κοινού κωδικού από και προς Αθήνα, Ρόδο, Ηράκλειο και Θεσσαλονίκη καθώς και Λάρνακα, Πάφο. Από τις 15 Απριλίου θα επεκταθεί, για να καλύψει και τους 38 προορισμούς εσωτερικού και εξωτερικού της Olympic Air καθώς και όλων των πτήσεων των Κυπριακών Αερογραμμών.

YU-AMC

March 25th, 2011, 12:20 AM

OA to BEG!

cHEERS

ovem

March 25th, 2011, 06:26 PM

^^ Belgrade?

YU-AMC

March 26th, 2011, 03:32 AM

^^ Belgrade?

That's right. The flights are commencing on the 27th of March. 7 weekly, and looking to increase to 14 x weekly. Also Jat Airways will be offering 7 weekly in the summer season with a B733. I made a mock up booking, and JU is offering the return from for around 200euros, whereas OA for 250 euros.

:cheers:

EngineerGreece

March 30th, 2011, 02:44 PM

Πάντρεμα Olympic Air και Cyprus Airways
http://news247.gr/oikonomia/article820223.ece

Συνεργασία Olympic Air και Cyprus Airways. Το κεφάλαιο της Aegean Airlines έκλεισε οριστικά για την Olympic, όπως επισήμανε ο νέος πρόεδρός της Γιάννης Καρακαδάς

Μετά τις προσπάθειες για συγχώνευση με την Aegean Airlines, κεφάλαιο που έκλεισε οριστικά, οι μέτοχοι της Olympic Air ανοίγουν πεδίο ευρύτατης συνεργασίας με τις Κυπριακές Αερογραμμές.

Η συνεργασία µε τις Κυπριακές Αερογραµµές, που προς το παρόν εστιάζεται στην εκτέλεση δροµολογίων µε κοινό κωδικό σε Ελλάδα, Κύπρο, Βαλκάνια και Μέση Ανατολή, δεν αποκλείεται να οδηγήσει στο µέλλον και σε στενότερη συνεργασία, όπως ανέφεραν οι εκπρόσωποι των δύο εταιρειών.

«Με την Aegean "τελειώσαµε", δεν υπάρχει πλέον καµιά συνέχεια, στο πλαίσιο του σχεδίου συγχώνευσης που µπλοκαρίστηκε από την Κοµισιόν», επισήμανε την Τρίτη ο νέος πρόεδρος της Olympic Air Γιάννης Καρακαδάς, παρουσιάζοντας τη συµφωνία συνεργασίας µε τις Κυπριακές Αερογραµµές

«Ας µη συγχέουµε την κοινή µας απόφαση να προσβάλουµε την απόφαση της Ε.Ε. Το κάνουµε για να ξεκαθαρίσει το τοπίο. Αν τα δικαστήρια µας δικαιώσουν, θα διεκδικήσουµε αποζηµιώσεις. Αλλά δεν µπορούµε να γυρίσουµε πίσω στη συµφωνία», συμπλήρωσε.

Αναφερόμενος στο πού ενδέχεται να οδηγήσει η συνεργασία, όπως επισημαίνεται σε δημοσίευμα της εφημερίδας "Τα Νέα", τόνισε πως δεν είναι κάτι που που προδιαγράφεται.

Στο ίδιο µήκος κύµατος και ο πρόεδρος των Κυπριακών Αερογραµµών Γ. Μαυρόκωστας που επισήμανε ότι «δεν αποκλείουµε τίποτα ως προς την κατάληξη αυτής της συνεργασίας».

WhiteMagick

March 30th, 2011, 08:42 PM

:applause: Έχει ανάγκη αυτή την συνεργασία η εταιρία των Κ.Α. γιατί είναι ένα βήμα προ την πτώχευση.

EngineerGreece

March 31st, 2011, 04:46 PM

kostya

March 31st, 2011, 07:39 PM

Για τις γυναίκες θα συμφωνήσω. Μελαχρινές θεές! :bow:

nastyathenian

March 31st, 2011, 07:56 PM

Στο αεροπλάνο δεν μπαίνεις για να πηδήξεις, αλλά για να ταξιδέψεις, άρα η ομορφιά των αεροσυνοδών είναι irrelevant. :)

ayanamikun

March 31st, 2011, 09:10 PM

“Κατέρρευσε” η Ο.Α -Ζημιές 130,5 εκατ. ευρώ

Από τις χειρότερες χρονιές ήταν το 2010 για την Olympic Air. Τα οικονομικά της αποτελέσματα άλλωστε το αποδεικνύουν. Συγκεκριμένα, οι συνολικές πωλήσεις το 2010 ήταν 407,4 εκατ. ευρώ, τα EDITDA αρνητικά κατά 90 εκατ. ευρώ. Οσον αφορά στο καθαρό αποτέλεσμα, αυτό ήταν ζημιογόνο, αφού διαμορφώθηκε στα 130,5 εκατ. ευρώ.

Ο συνολικός καθαρός δανεισμός στο τέλος του 2010 έφθασε τα 263,3 εκατ. ευρώ, με τα υπόλοιπα των ταμειακών διαθεσίμων και ισοδυνάνων και δανεισμού να ανέρχονται σε 598,8 εκατ, ευρώ και 323,1 εκατ. ευρώ αντίστοιχα.

http://www.newscode.gr/epicheirhseis/story/25391/katerreyse-h-oa-zhmies-1305-ekat-eyrw

skyduster

March 31st, 2011, 09:19 PM

Στο αεροπλάνο δεν μπαίνεις για να πηδήξεις, αλλά για να ταξιδέψεις, άρα η ομορφιά των αεροσυνοδών είναι irrelevant. :)

+1

Φαίνεται λίγο τριτοκοσμικό όταν προσλάβει η Aegean μόνο νέες γυναίκες, και όχι άντρες ή μεγαλύτερες γυναίκες. Κατα τ'άλλα είναι πολύ καλή εταιρεία.

EngineerGreece

April 1st, 2011, 12:47 AM

^^

Γιατί; Καλά κάνει. Μας ευφραίνει την καρδία...! Κάτι παθαίνω κάθε φορά. Τι γυναικάρες :drool: Πάντως πέρα από την πλάκα αυτό που με εντυπωσιάζει περισσότερο είναι τα ίδια τα αεροπλάνα. Στον αέρα είναι σχεδόν αθόρυβα και μέσα είναι πανέμορφα και καθαρά. Πάντως κάνουν κάτι περίεργους θορύβους όταν βρίσκονται στην γη και είναι είδη σταματημένα, πριν ξεκινήσουν και όταν φτάσουν, δεν έχω καταλάβει ακόμα τι είναι. Ξέρει κανείς;

Μπήκα έτσι για να δω στο Βρετανικό και στο παγκόσμιο google και διαβάζω σχεδόν μόνο θετικά για την Aegean. Τους έχει εντυπωσιάσει κυρίως το φαγητό (εε κλασικά :D), η εξυπηρέτηση και τα καινούρια αεροπλάνα.

skyduster

April 1st, 2011, 02:05 AM

EngineerGreece,

'Οταν ταξίδεψες με την Aegean, το παρατήρησες με τι αεροσκάφος πέταξες? Η Aegean έχει Airbus 320 και 321, και Avro RJ100 για κοντύτερες αποστάσεις. Ίσως η Aegean έχει γενικά νεότερο στόλο από άλλες ευρωπαϊκες εταιρείες?

TheFlyingCat

April 1st, 2011, 03:08 AM

btw...

Μετά από πολλά ταξίδια με British Airways, KLM, Air France, bmi και OA ταξίδεψα με Aegean. Τι να πω... αιώνες μπροστά... Πανέμορφα και σχεδόν αθόρυβα αεροπλάνα, πολύ καλό σέρβις... και ΓΥΝΑΙΚΑΡΕΣ...!! :D

Την αληθεια την ξερετε? Μαλλον οχι. Ε βεβαια... Η εν λογω εταιρεια αποτελει το προτυπο του σεξισμου δεκαετιας '50 στην Ευρωπη. Εισαι γυναικα ψηλη, ανευ πειρας, γαλανοματα, 1.80, ξανθια και χαζη? ΠΡΟΣΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΣΑΙ! Εισαι αντρας με αδεια Ι/Φ και προϋπηρεσια? Εεεμ ευχαριστουμε, θα σας παρουμε τηλεφωνο... Ααα και ξεχασα, η εταιρεια αυτη πληρωνει με 600 €υροπουλα το πληρωμα καμπινας (οταν οι ευρωπαιοι συναδελφοι τους παιρνουν πανω απο 1500€...) :bash:

^^

Γιατί; Καλά κάνει. Μας ευφραίνει την καρδία...! Κάτι παθαίνω κάθε φορά. Τι γυναικάρες :drool: Πάντως πέρα από την πλάκα αυτό που με εντυπωσιάζει περισσότερο είναι τα ίδια τα αεροπλάνα. Στον αέρα είναι σχεδόν αθόρυβα και μέσα είναι πανέμορφα και καθαρά. Πάντως κάνουν κάτι περίεργους θορύβους όταν βρίσκονται στην γη και είναι είδη σταματημένα, πριν ξεκινήσουν και όταν φτάσουν, δεν έχω καταλάβει ακόμα τι είναι. Ξέρει κανείς;

Μπήκα έτσι για να δω στο Βρετανικό και στο παγκόσμιο google και διαβάζω σχεδόν μόνο θετικά για την Aegean. Τους έχει εντυπωσιάσει κυρίως το φαγητό (εε κλασικά :D), η εξυπηρέτηση και τα καινούρια αεροπλάνα.

Φυσικο να ειναι αθορυβα μιας και ειναι Airbus A320 απο φαμπρικα! Οι θορυβοι προερχονται απο πολλα μερη, κυριως απο τα flaps (δοκιμη... μια απλη διαδικασια ρουτινας)

:)

EngineerGreece

April 1st, 2011, 10:19 AM

Την αληθεια την ξερετε? Μαλλον οχι. Ε βεβαια... Η εν λογω εταιρεια αποτελει το προτυπο του σεξισμου δεκαετιας '50 στην Ευρωπη. Εισαι γυναικα ψηλη, ανευ πειρας, γαλανοματα, 1.80, ξανθια και χαζη? ΠΡΟΣΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΣΑΙ!

Διαφωνώ. Δεν είναι ξανθιές, ούτε γαλανομάτες, ούτε 1,80, ούτε άνευ πείρας, ούτε χαζές. Οι περισσότερες είναι είναι μαυρομάλλες Ελληνίδες, σε καμία περίπτωση όλες πάνω από 1,80, σε καμία περίπτωση άνευ πείρας ούτε χαζές. Επίσης το επίπεδο αγγλικών τους μπορώ να πω ότι είναι πάρα πολύ καλό.

Και στην τελική αν ήταν πρότυπο σεξισμού θα άφηναν να φανεί και κάτι. Μια χαρά ντυμένες είναι, και κομψές θα έλεγα.

Ααα και ξεχασα, η εταιρεια αυτη πληρωνει με 600 €υροπουλα το πληρωμα καμπινας (οταν οι ευρωπαιοι συναδελφοι τους παιρνουν πανω απο 1500€...)

Και που υπάρχουν καλύτεροι μισθοί από το εξωτερικό στην Ελλάδα; Λογικό μου φαίνεται αν θέλει να ζήσει η εταιρία στις εποχές που ζούμε. Εξάλλου κυρίως στο εσωτερικό της Ελλάδας δραστηριοποιείται. Και όχι στο εσωτερικό της Ολλανδίας π.χ

EngineerGreece,

'Οταν ταξίδεψες με την Aegean, το παρατήρησες με τι αεροσκάφος πέταξες? Η Aegean έχει Airbus 320 και 321, και Avro RJ100 για κοντύτερες αποστάσεις. Ίσως η Aegean έχει γενικά νεότερο στόλο από άλλες ευρωπαϊκες εταιρείες?

Έχει όντως τον νεότερο στόλο. Το Airbus Α320 ήταν.

YU-AMC

April 2nd, 2011, 09:06 AM

I have some questions for my Greek brothers. Lets say OA and A3 merge today, what is the chance of restarting the long haul network? What would be different from the previous OA long haul network? How would they make it work in order to turn the profit on their long haul routes? I can't wait to see a Greek plane in YYZ!

skyduster

April 2nd, 2011, 07:14 PM

Hi YU-AMC,

At the moment, it looks like an OA-A3 merger is dead. Most Greek forumers are disappointed about that, and I understand their wishes for a large Greek carrier that can make ATH into a major hub, similar to KLM or Singapore Airlines...and I would certainly want that too. But personally, I didn't like the merger proposal. In times of economic austerity, it would have created a monopoly on domestic routes (and there's already far too many monopolies in the Greek economy)...and of the two brands, they would have kept the worst of the two brands (Olympic), and they would have dropped the Aegean name which is one of the strongest Greek brands internationally in any industry...a strong brand name that took 20 years to build would have disappeared for the sake of anachronistic nostalgia.

Additionally, some forumers mentioned that the EU's rejection of an A3-OA merger was unfair given the BA-IB and AF-KL mergers, but I pointed out that the proposed Ryanair-Aer Lingus merger (which was rejected by the EU) was a much more accurate comparison to the OA-A3 proposal. The AirOne-Alitalia proposal (which the EU allowed) isn't a very fair comparison either, because after Alitalia axed its hub at MXP, the two carriers had little overlap in international and domestic routes (plus, Italy has its growing high-speed rail network which offers Italians an additional option for domestic intercity trips between the largest cities).

If the OA-A3 merger is to go ahead in the future, which looks like a very slim chance, I think that the new airline would very prudently epxand its network into long-haul routes. Regardless of a merger, I think that A3 will eventually expand into some long-haul routes anyways, without OA. The United States and Canada are probably the most likely markets for long-haul service.

Air Canada currently flies to Athens from both YYZ and YUL, and Air Transat also offers flights to ATH from YYZ, YUL, and even YVR if I'm not mistaken...so I'm not sure how much more demand there would be for direct Canada-Greece flights. The Air Canada flights are codeshore with Aegean...making ATH into a Star Alliance hub. And it's a similar situation with the United States...Delta offers flights from JFK and ATL, while USair from PHL, and UA/CO from EWR. I do see the possibility of A3 maybe in the mid-term future buying some long-haul aircraft and offering additional service to New York City from ATH...maybe adding a JFK-ATH route to complement Star Alliance's flights to ATH from EWR...or entering the Washigton market with IAD-ATH routes, since there's not IAD-ATH service at the moment, and IAD can serve as an additional Star Alliance hub (the other one being EWR) for US-GR passengers, while at the same time ATH can serve as a hub for passengers between the Washington area and the Middle East (then again, it's also possible that UA will offer an IAD-ATH route instead of A3...or we may never see an IAD-ATH route at all). At the time being, I haven't heard of A3 mentioning any of these possibilities, so this is entirely my speculation.

A3 has been very gradual and prudent in growing its network..so expect this type of cautious growth into new routes, regardless of a merger with OA (which will not be happening for now).

After the EU blocked the merger, both OA and A3 dropped some routes to reduce overlap in their international networks...which is an obvious trick aimed at winning approval for a merger in the future...but there would still be a monopoly on domestic routes. If they ever re-attempt the merger, they better drop the OA name, and keep the Aegean one, IMO.

1821

April 3rd, 2011, 07:14 AM

What would be wrong with keeping the Olympic name for domestic routes, and the Aegean name for international routes?

skyduster

April 4th, 2011, 12:28 AM

Your proposal for keeping the Olympic brand for domestic routes and Aegean for international routes is similar to the situation in Argentina with Aerolíneas Argentinas-Austral...it's the same airline with the Aerolíneas Argentinas brand used for international (and some domestic) routes, and Austral solely for domestic routes.

However, Aerolíneas Argentinas/Austral don't have a monopoly in Argentina. LAN Argentina, for example, offers several domestic flights to compete with Austral.

YU-AMC

April 5th, 2011, 08:49 AM

Thank you for taking your time to write such a detailed overview. I am familiar with the monopoly on some domestic routes. I think the most realistic scenerio would be for Aegean to pick some fresh A330 and go from there.

greecelightning

May 7th, 2011, 09:57 PM

Athens reportedly considers return of hydroplanes

Italian newspaper La Stampa suggested on Friday that the Greek government is considering bringing back hydroplane travel to Aegean destinations as part of its effort to improve its finances.

The report argued that Athens will soon auction off operating licenses for routes to the islands.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_1_06/05/2011_389965

skyduster

May 7th, 2011, 10:45 PM

^^ what about the Ionian? :(

thessa

June 4th, 2011, 04:07 PM

So far what ever scheduled route Hellenic Imperial have launched has been "suspended" shortly after. Apparently they are looking for different planes, and also have plans to launch domestic service. They were approved for NYC flights to start back in June, but that went no where. I'm also wondering how they are managing to survive. How many charters do they do? Something seems strange...

It seems like they will commence flights to JFK on June 24 (http://www.hellenicairways.com/nea-programmatismeni-ptisi-athina-nea-uorki-athina_).

As an aside, I am not fully aware of the technical specs on this, so I am throwing the question out there in case anybody here knows. Can the Thessaloniki airport handle trans-Atlantic flights? Will it be able to after the expansion of the runway? If not, what are the impediments to handling trans-Atlantic flights? It seems to me like a plane would have to pay considerably less to use SKG instead of ATH, and most people do not spend a lot of time in Athens; it is just their stopover to other parts of Greece. Wouldn't a JFK-SKG flight be 1 hour shorter, considerably cheaper, and possibly more convenient for some travelers? I know this is anecdotal evidence but everytime I speak to American travelers, not all of them are going to the Cyclades/Crete/Rhodes. There is a considerable amount that go to Corfu/Meteora/Northern Greece including Thessaloniki (mostly southern Baptists retracing Paul's steps).

kostya

June 4th, 2011, 04:58 PM

Can the Thessaloniki airport handle trans-Atlantic flights? Will it be able to after the expansion of the runway?

yep. After the expansion skg airport will be able to handle transatlantic flights. :cheers:

YU-AMC

June 5th, 2011, 03:34 AM

SKG ? I don't think so. The runway is 2400m long. There is no way that OA A340 or Helanic 747 can take off. It can take off on half empty tank, but it needs to be filled up to make it to JFK.

YU-AMC

June 5th, 2011, 03:39 AM

Here you got some images of the future expansion plan.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/Expansion_10-28.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f7/Macedonia_International_Airport_New_Terminal.png

skyduster

June 5th, 2011, 06:06 AM

kostya

June 5th, 2011, 11:28 AM

SKG ? I don't think so. The runway is 2400m long. There is no way that OA A340 or Helanic 747 can take off. It can take off on half empty tank, but it needs to be filled up to make it to JFK.

It will be 3400m soon :cheers:

YU-AMC

June 5th, 2011, 09:41 PM

YU-AMC,

Construction to expand the runways into the sea has already started and is progressing at the moment. When completed, the airport will be capable of handling larger aircraft, hence long-haul flights if there is ever a demand.

The terminal is sort of up in the air. I believe the government is currently seeking private financing for the new terminal, along the lines of the way the new Athens airport was built. They're also looking for private financing to relocate and rebuild Heraklion's airport.

I was not aware of any development at SKG. That is a good news indeed. Btw, I have done some research and found out that there was some Transalantic service from SKG. I guess it was back in the 1980s with a stop over in Western Europe. Not quite sure, but I will dig more into it.
No matter what, it would be a blast to see some transatlantic service to SKG.

YU-AMC

June 5th, 2011, 09:42 PM

It will be 3400m soon :cheers:

Nice! I hope we get some pictures to follow up on the progress. :cheers:

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

June 6th, 2011, 05:25 AM

@ YU-AMC, check the following link

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=816214

skyduster

June 7th, 2011, 10:05 AM

There's more renderings of the proposed SKG terminal here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=69899655&postcount=80). It's a fantastic design, and hopefully they don't abandon it.

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

June 12th, 2011, 10:07 PM

Ιδιοκτήτης ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟ ΚΡΑΤΟΣ
Περιγραφή Έργου Νέο Αεροδρόμιο στο Καστέλι Κρήτης
Έτος 2011
Προϋπολογισμός 1.000.000.000 €
Συνεργασίες Luis Berger Group

http://www.arishellas.com/images/projects/146/1307109231_big.jpg

http://www.arishellas.com/images/projects/146/1307109265_big.jpg

http://www.arishellas.com/images/projects/146/1307109333_big.jpg

http://www.arishellas.com/images/projects/146/1307109311_big.jpg

http://www.arishellas.com/images/projects/146/1307109288_big.jpg

www.arishellas.com

YU-AMC

June 15th, 2011, 06:58 AM

@ YU-AMC, check the following link

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=816214

Thank you! :cheers:

savas

June 15th, 2011, 11:16 AM

Νέο Αεροδρόμιο στο Καστέλι Κρήτης
απλό και όμορφο

skyduster

June 16th, 2011, 07:11 AM

Αθήνα Ελευθέριος Βενιζέλος

Τον Απρίλη του 2011, αυξήθηκε η διεθνή κίνηση 4,6% από τον Απρίλη του 2010.
Η εσωτερική κίνηση μειώθηκε 14,3% από τον Απρίλη του 2010.

Κοιτάξτε εδώ (http://www.aia.gr/UserFiles/File/trafficStatistics/2011/April/144715_2011_PAX_ENG.pdf) για την κίνηση του αεροδρομίου το 2011 (μέχρι τον Απρίλη) σε σύγκριση με το 2010, και εδώ (http://www.aia.gr/UserFiles/File/trafficStatistics/2011/April/144715_2011_PAX_ENG.pdf) για το 2010 σε σύγκριση με το 2009. Τους πρώτους τρεις μήνες του 2011, μειώθηκε πολύ η συνολική κίνηση (διεθνή + εσωτερική), αλλά είχε αυξηθεί πολύ τους πρώτους τρεις μήνες του 2010 από την ίδια περίοδο του 2009.

Ακόμα είναι νωρίς να καταλήξουμε, αλλά ελπίζω έχει αρχίσει να αυξάνεται πάλι η διεθνή κίνηση του αεροδρομίου, ή τουλάχιστον να έχει σταθεροποιηθεί.

skyduster

June 16th, 2011, 07:21 AM

Για το νέο αεροδρόμιο Ηρακλείου:

Είναι σίγουρο οτι θα πραγματοποιηθεί αυτό το σχέδιο?

username unnecessary

June 25th, 2011, 09:29 PM

http://www.imerisia.gr/article.asp?catid=12334&subid=2&pubid=111465158

Hellenic Imperial Airways: Πρώτη πτήση του νέου δρομολογίου Αθήνα-Νέα Υόρκη
Από τότε που σταμάτησε η πτήση της Ολυμπιακής, πριν από δυο χρόνια περίπου, η ελληνική σημαία κυματίζει ξανά από χθες στην είσοδο του διεθνούς αεροδρομίου Κένεντι

Την πρώτη της πτήση από την Αθήνα με προορισμό τη Νέα Υόρκη πραγματοποίησε χθες η εταιρία Hellenic Imperial Airways. Το αεροπλάνο Μπόινγκ 747 (τζάμπο) έφτασε στο αεροδρόμιο Κένεντι στις 9:20 το βράδυ (τοπική ώρα), δέκα λεπτά νωρίτερα από την προγραμματισμένη ώρα άφιξής του. Υστερα από δυο ώρες, αναμενόταν να αναχωρήσει, επιστρέφοντας στο αεροδρόμιο "Ελευθέριος Βενιζέλος".

Από τότε που σταμάτησε η πτήση της Ολυμπιακής, πριν από δυο χρόνια περίπου, η ελληνική σημαία κυματίζει ξανά από χθες στην είσοδο του διεθνούς αεροδρομίου Κένεντι. "Φιλοδοξούμε να καλύψουμε το κενό που είχε δημιουργηθεί" δηλώνει στο ΑΠΕ-ΜΠΕ ο γενικός διευθυντής της Hellenic Imperial Airways, Κώστας Μαυρίκης, επισημαίνοντας ότι "ξεκινάμε με τέσσερις πτήσεις την εβδομάδα και, ανάλογα με τη ζήτηση, στόχος μας είναι να καθιερώσουμε καθημερινή πτήση Αθήνα-Νέα Υόρκη και αντιστρόφως".

Ο κ. Μαυρίκης, ο οποίος διετέλεσε γενικός διευθυντής της Ολυμπιακής πριν ιδιωτικοποιηθεί, ενώ υπηρέτησε και διευθυντής της εταιρίας στη Νέα Υόρκη, αναφέρει ότι για τη συγκεκριμένη πτήση θα πετούν Airbus 340, κατασκευής από 2001 μέχρι 2003. Επειδή όμως υπήρξε κάποια καθυστέρηση στην παράδοση, θα χρησιμοποιηθούν σε μια με δυο βδομάδες, σημειώνοντας παράλληλα ότι "με την έναρξη λειτουργίας του νέου δρομολογίου, ελπίζουμε ότι θα συμβάλλουμε στην αύξηση του τουριστικού ρεύματος από τις ΗΠΑ προς την Ελλάδα. Πάντως, η ανταπόκριση της Ομογένειας είναι συγκινητική".

Ο Γενικός Διευθυντής της συγκεκριμένης αεροπορικής εταιρίας υποστηρίζει ότι "κάθε επιβάτης δίνει προτεραιότητα στην ασφάλεια των πτήσεων. Έτσι, φροντίσαμε να εξασφαλίσουμε έμπειρους πιλότους, μηχανικούς και μέλη πληρώματος. Οι περισσότεροι προέρχονται από την παλαιά Ολυμπιακή. Επίσης, τα εισιτήριά μας είναι πιο φθηνά. Τα τελευταία δυο χρόνια, λόγω έλλειψης ανταγωνισμού, οι τιμές είχαν ανεβεί πολύ".

"Σημαντικό πλεονέκτημα της πτήσης", όπως λέει ο κ. Μαυρίκης, "είναι η άνεση της οικονομικής θέσης, γιατί ενώ τα αεροπλάνα που πραγματοποιούσαν την πτήση της Ολυμπιακής είχαν για τον ίδιο χώρο 263 καθίσματα, τα δικά μας αεροπλάνα έχουν 217 καθίσματα. Στη διακεκριμένη θέση θα υπάρχουν δυο επίπεδα, με οκτώ καθίσματα πρώτης θέσης που θα γίνονται κρεβάτια και άλλα 24 καθίσματα για θέσεις μπίζνες".

Περιφερειακός διευθυντής της εταιρίας για τις Ηνωμένες Πολιτείες είναι ο Γιώργος Κεσσανής. Οι τέσσερις πτήσεις της εβδομάδας έχουν προγραμματιστεί για Δευτέρα, Τετάρτη Παρασκευή και Σάββατο. Η αναχώρηση της πτήσης από Αθήνα θα γίνεται στις 5:30 το απόγευμα και η ώρα άφιξης στο αεροδρόμιο Κένεντι θα είναι στις 9:30 το βράδυ (τοπική ώρα). Από τη Νέα Υόρκη θα αναχωρεί στις 11:30 το βράδυ (τοπική ώρα) και θα φθάνει στο "Ελευθέριος Βενιζέλος" στις 5:00 το απόγευμα.

KONSTANTINOUPOLIS

June 25th, 2011, 09:31 PM

Thank you! :cheers:
:)

SouthernEuropean

June 25th, 2011, 10:44 PM

H Hellenic Imperial Airways φενεται πως εχει προοπτικες να εξελιχθει σε μια μεγαλη εταιρια .:cheers:.Παντως κατα τη γνωμη μου πρεπει να αλλαξει εμβλημα , θυμιζει υπερβολικα της Lufthansa...

kostya

June 25th, 2011, 10:48 PM

Έχουν και οι δυο πολλά 747 :shifty:

SouthernEuropean

June 25th, 2011, 10:52 PM

Χμμ αυτο ειναι λιγο υποπτο...:cool:

ckm

June 28th, 2011, 03:03 PM

Πάνω στο θέμα Ισπανίας...

ναι...η Iberia τραβάει αρκετή πελατεία από ταξιδιώτες μεταξύ Ευρώπης και Αμερικής (οχι μόνο τις ισπανόφωνες χώρες, αλλα και Βραζιλία και ΗΠΑ).

Όμως για τις εσωτερικές πτήσεις -και ενδοευρωπαϊκά ταξίδια- υπάρχει ανταγωνιστικότητα μεταξύ Iberia και Spanair. Να μην ξεχνάμε και τα τρένα υψυλής ταχύτητας AVE μεταξύ Μαδρίτης, Βαρκελώνης, Σεβίλλης, Κόρδοβας, Μάλαγας, και Σαραγόσας. Ο Ισπανός έχει τρεις διαφορετικές επιλογές για εσωτερικά ταξίδια υψυλής ταχύτητας.

Και ο Έλληνας έχει επιλογές -την Ολυμπιακή και την Aegean- χάρη στην ΕΕ η οποία πάτησε το φρένο της συγχώνευσης OA-A3.

Δεν καταλαβαίνω γιατι δεν μπορεί από μόνη της η Aegean (χωρίς να αποκτήσει την ΟΑ και να πάρει το κουρασμένο ονομά της) να γίνει "κολοσσός" και να αναπτύξει ένα πυκνό δίκτυο μεταξύ Ευρώπης, Μέσης Ανατολής, ακόμα και νότιας και νοτιοανατολικής Ασίας, και Βόρειας Αμερικής.

Iberia's competition is not only Spanair, but also Air Europa (Spanish's SkyTeam member) that is moving from being a charter to a network airline with a growing domestic and international network. There is Vueling also (which now is part of Iberia group) that actually is taking over many domestic Iberia routes, as I can recall for instance MAD-PMI (Spain's 1st and 3rd busiest airports)

Yet the biggest threat to Iberia, Spanair or AVE (high-speed train) is definitely Ryanair. They are taking a big share on the domestic market, particularly on non-Madrid regional routes (North-South, West-East). For most of them (if they existed at all) the only alternative used to be Air Nostrum (Iberia's regional airline) that could charge atrocious fares (I am talking about 200/300 EUR for a roundtrip domestic non-Madrid bound route; let's say from Bilbao to Andalucia or Galicia to Valencia where train/bus are not usually time-wise alternatives)... one day arrives Ryanair with 30 EUR fares for the same route... it is not hard to see who is going to win. ^^ Ryanair is now the largest airline in Spain by number of passengers. It is not uncommon (I would say very normal) that a domestic Ryanair flight is cheaper that, not only any other flight alternative or high-speed train (that in Spain tends to be very expensive), but also "slow" trains or coach.

Obviously if Ryanair would do domestic or mainland-island routes in Greece, that would "kill" the market and would be a big threat to the survival of Aegean/Olympic. Let's say Ryanair would offer 20-30 EUR fares for a ATH-SKG or SKG-HER or even lower with their sales (obviously not at peak time or season), that would kill train, bus and any other alternative. I found funny when flying those domestic routes that they are used not only by businessmen (in a crisis Ryanair seems to be a good way to save money) but also by students or retired people (which usually try to use more traditional means of transportation and tend to have more time) just because it is the cheapest way to travel from A to B.

TheFlyingCat

June 28th, 2011, 07:35 PM

Obviously if Ryanair would do domestic or mainland-island routes in Greece, that would "kill" the market and would be a big threat to the survival of Aegean/Olympic. Let's say Ryanair would offer 20-30 EUR fares for a ATH-SKG or SKG-HER or even lower with their sales (obviously not at peak time or season), that would kill train, bus and any other alternative. I found funny when flying those domestic routes that they are used not only by businessmen (in a crisis Ryanair seems to be a good way to save money) but also by students or retired people (which usually try to use more traditional means of transportation and tend to have more time) just because it is the cheapest way to travel from A to B.

That's the point! But the problem here is that airport fees are exorbitantly high, because greek regional airports remain state-owned. That will never make Ryanair (or even EasyJet) to create a hub in Greece. :ohno:

skyduster

June 29th, 2011, 07:32 AM

Iberia's competition is not only Spanair, but also Air Europa (Spanish's SkyTeam member)...There is Vueling also...Yet the biggest threat to Iberia, Spanair or AVE (high-speed train) is definitely Ryanair......

Yes, lots of competition on the domestic market in Spain for longer distances.

Obviously if Ryanair would do domestic or mainland-island routes in Greece, that would "kill" the market and would be a big threat to the survival of Aegean/Olympic.

If Ryanair provided domestic routes, then yes, it would bite a share out of the domestic market, bit this isn't currently the case, and hence the Commission denied A3/OA their requested merger. And that makes sense. If Ryanar enters the domestic market in the future, then that's a different story.

Let's say Ryanair would offer 20-30 EUR fares for a ATH-SKG or SKG-HER or even lower with their sales (obviously not at peak time or season), that would kill train, bus and any other alternative.

No, it wouldn't necessarily kill any alternative.

Ferries, for example, will remain relevant for people who want to bring their cars/motorcycles/mopeds to their destination. Additionally, it doesn't make sense for all 170 inhabited islands to have their own airport, so the ferry will remain relevant to smaller-traffic islands, in order to connect them at least to a larger neighboring island that has an airport, if not all the way to the mainland (in fact, because most ferry routes -particularly in the Aegean- make multiple stops, many small islands are connected to both the neighboring islands and the mainland). Even if you live on an island that does have an airport, but is very close to the mainland (like Corfu, Zakynthos, etc)...say you have a new house in Corfu, and you want to visit the IKEA in Ioannina, then you'll have to drive (onto a car-ferry). The ferries also transport freight. I know that you personally did not mention the ferry, but many people wrongly assume that the ferry industry and airline industry directly complete with each other. They don't.

The intercity bus industry definitely would be forced to reinvent itself if Ryanair were to enter Greece's domestic market with such ridiculously low fares. The intercity bus industry would have to provide short-distance services only. Not, for example, Athens-Corfu, or Athens-Thessaloniki, or Athens-Patra, as is the case right now. These long-distance intercity bus routes currently fill the void left by the country's very limited passenger rail system, but I don't see them operating if Ryanair came in. But short, distances, yes. Because it does not make sense to fly if the bus ride is less than 2 hours, especially if the origin and/or destination city is too small to have its own airport.

Rail has the huge advantage that: if you live in the city center, you do not need to travel all the way to the airport (let alone needing to show up 1-2 hours in advance, waiting to go through security, etc). Ryanair's low fares may be enticing, but so is the time-saving benefit of high-speed rail between larger cities, and some travelers may want to pay a bit more for the convenience and time saved (high-speed rail is the time-saving option for HSR trips of 4 hours or less). Greece does not have high-speed rail, unfortunately, but the major lines are being upgraded to 200 km/h, meaning that Athens-Patra will be only 2 hours I believe, which makes far more sense than flying between these two cities. And in fact, Ryanair may even use this future higher-speed rail to its advantage, by flying to Patra's Araxos airport which it can market as "Athens". I mean, that's what Ryanair loves to do, which is one of the reasons it's so cheap. You know, how "Barcelona" is actually Girona or Reus, not El Prat. In fact, Ryanair already flies to Volos, which they can market as "Athens" when that airport's rail station is completed in a few years. So, rail may compete with air travel for some trips, but it also complements air travel on other trips. Additionally, rail also connects towns too small for an airport to larger towns.

As for Aegean and Olympic, maybe if Ryanair started operating domestic routes, then maybe they may be able to merge, and they can very well survive perfectly fine and healthy by operating as Greece's primary long-haul carrier, as well as a global airline -like a KLM or Swiss- with a hub in Athens, flying millions of passengers -for example- between Europe/North America and the Middle East/South Asia/Southeast Asia. This new, merged A3/OA airline -as I have noted many times before- would have to drop the outdated "flying ambassador" identity, and act like a global airline...a global airline that happens to be Greek, not "the Greek airline". This isn't 1972. And in order to do this, if they decide to merge, they should keep the Aegean name, not the Olympic one, for all reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. And unfortunately, with the recent proposal, they planned to keep the OA name, but thankfully that merger was struck down by the commission. I was completely astounded that the people who run Aegean were ready to dump the Aegean name...after over 20 years of hard work to build that well-respected name. They were just going to throw it in the bin, just like that, in favor of the Olympic name which has a negative perception according to market research (as if we needed a study to tell us that).

ckm

June 29th, 2011, 06:57 PM

Skyduster, I understand that Greece (especially because of the tons of islands; yet in Spain there are only a few "big" islands), size, distribution of cities, etc. is different from Spain's.

Yet I tried to explain that Spanair is not really the "biggest" threat to Iberia, yet Ryanair is. Somehow Ryanair has changed the way many Europeans travel, so no surprise that Ryanair entering any domestic market, it changes the rules of the game. Hypothetically Ryanair entering the Greek domestic market, that would certainly be the largest threat to OA/A3.

Is there any reason why Ryanair does not enter in ATH? Protectionism (which I understand with the EU is hard to justify)? Lack of slots? Expensive fees for their "business model"?

Regarding Barcelona, Ryanair has flied to El Prat for a while now (I reckon a year now). And if you take a look at their destination map, you will find (not surprisingly) that they fly all their domestic routes out of Barcelona (and not Girona, I think PMI is also from Girona but probably they can support both destinations), where travellers are less willing to travel to remote airports. It is easier to justify a flight to Girona from Larnaca - the only direct connection between Cyprus and Spain, for instance - when you don't have any competition. Actually today they announced that they are leaving Reus and decreasing their activity in Girona in order to concentrate in BCN (El Prat).

ellis896

June 30th, 2011, 12:10 AM

Ryanair is flying to Greece already unless you 're talking specifically for Athens.

YU-AMC

July 2nd, 2011, 06:30 AM

Where could I find some data regarding the pax numbers for the old Helikon Airport. I am looking for the data from 1980s-2000. Any clue?

skyduster

September 16th, 2011, 05:45 AM

Is there any reason why Ryanair does not enter in ATH? Protectionism (which I understand with the EU is hard to justify)? Lack of slots? Expensive fees for their "business model"?

Ryanair currently flies to several destinations in Greece, but you're right that the airline is absent from Athens. My educated guess is ATH's high airport fees.

No, it's not protectionism. ATH has to go by the same rules as any other EU airport, and can't protect ATH-based or Greece-based carriers (although this was a problem in the recent past, before OA was privatised).

ATH has had high fees since it moved to its new location: the old Ellinikon airport (LGAT) closed in 2001 and was replaced by the brand new Eleftérios Venizélos-Spáta (LGAV). (Both use/used the IATA code ATH, but different ICAO codes for some reason).

The company that built the new airport (Hochtief) owns minority stake in the airport, the state owns the majority stake, thus high landing fees are used to pay off the state's share of constructing the airport. Long story short. This model has been criticized because high landing fees may have prevented the airport from becoming a major hub. If it had become a major hub -according to critics- the airport would have paid itself off not because of high fees, but because of higher volume of flights. This could very well be the case, but I'm not completely convinced. A higher volume of passengers would require a second terminal, which would cost money, as phase 1 of the airport has already reached capacity in just 10 years of operation. Additionally, to become a major hub, you need a major "legendary" airline. OA definitely wasn't up for that role, and A3 was perhaps still too young to take on this role. So Turkish, in neighboring IST, filled that void. So, Athens is almost entirely an origin & destination airport.

But that doesn't mean there's no room for ATH to take on major hub operations within the next decade. There's plenty room for one more Europe-MiddleEast hub, just like LHR, CDG, FRA, and AMS all act as NorthAmerica-Europe hubs. Hochtief is now selling its stake in ATH, and Vinci (French construction company) is interested, along with a Chinese company. I wouldn't be opposed to the state selling a portion of its stake, and keep a minority stake. That way, a private investor will hold majority stake, and do what they want with the airport: pour money into it, build new terminals, because they feel they'll benefit from it. And the state will make a handsome return as well. I'm not exactly an economic libertarian, but you have to do what's best in each situation, and I feel that -at the moment- Vinci would be able to invest more into ATH than the Greek state. And this will benefit the Greek economy in the long run.

Where could I find some data regarding the pax numbers for the old Helikon Airport. I am looking for the data from 1980s-2000. Any clue?

I did a Google search in both Greek and English, and couldn't find anything. But I did read somewhere that Ellinikon's passenger figure in 2000 was around 12 million (unfortunately, I can't cite this, but it's a believable figure). That was far beyond its capacity.

As for 1980...again, I remember reading somewhere that total tourist arrivals in Greece for that year had reached 5 million, which is nothing compared to nowadays (approaching 17 million). So, hopefully that'll give you an idea of ATH's traffic 30 years ago, not that all traffic is tourism related, of course (Greeks travel abroad too, obviously). Of course, the regional airports (HER, CFU, RHO, KGS, CHQ, ZTH, etc) were not major points of entry 30 years ago...most traffic into and out of the country went through ATH. The regional airports started to pick up steam in the late 80s, I believe (maybe someone can correct me on this), with the rise of charters and -in later years- low-cost carriers. But hopefully, this gives you a general idea of the major growth in pax figures for Athens over the past 30 years.

YU-AMC

October 16th, 2011, 06:59 AM

12 Mil for Helikon is very realistic. It was open until 2001 If I stand correct. Those were the days....

skyduster

October 16th, 2011, 09:16 AM

Ugh! I'm glad to see it closed, and all of us here at Hellenic Agora feel the same way. That airport was such an embarrassment for Athens. The terminals that the airport had (at the time of closure in 2001) were designed in the 1960s for the needs of the 1960s. Because air travel was changing so rapidly at that time, Athens was already stuck with an outdated airport by the 1970s. Already in the 1970s, there was talk about relocating the airport to the Mesogeia valley (where the new airport is now located), because of the very limited space. But the move was controversial, and construction didn't begin until the 1990s.

According to this website (http://www.hcaa-eleng.gr/athhist.htm) about the history of Hellinikon airport (in Greek), the airport had 3,300,000 passengers in 1968. How times have changed! I wasn't alive then, but I remember by the 1990s, the international terminal would get very crowded. But I can't lie, there is a little nostalgia; when I look at pictures of the old airport...those 60s designs are so....60s!! lol, the Saarinen-designed terminals were unchanged from their opening in 1968 until their closure 2001!!!!

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/466/2350867checkinhall2up8.jpg
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9717/2350327togatesrvi7.jpg
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/6636/2350316departuresrag1.jpg
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/2506182.jpg

Some people loved Eero Saarinen's international terminal at Hellinikon, but IMO it definitely was not one of his best works. His terminals at Washington Dulles (IAD) and New York JFK were much more elegant, although the JFK one quickly became sorely outdated. The IAD main terminal never really became outdated, IMO. It was just mismanaged. It has a classic, timeless design, and -in its ample size and linear floorplan- it oddly resembles modern-day terminals. Because of growing traffic, they added ugly makeshift concourses in the 1980s, but those were completely unnecessary. The original Saarinen structure could have remained a single-structure terminal with some slight modifications (ie addition of jetbridges), and growing traffic at the airport could have been addressed by additional terminals, instead of adding concourses to a single terminal.

Anyways, you're right that Hellinikon airport closed in March 2001, and the new one started operations right then. The new airport inherited the ATH code. But for some reason, the old and new airports have different ICAO codes. Hellinikon was LGAT. Eleftherios Venizelos is LGAV.

--------
There's another interesting abandoned 60s-era airport, the one in Nicosia, Cyprus. The airport was abandoned during the division of the island in 1974, and the Republic of Cyprus built new airports in Larnaca and Paphos to replace the abandoned Nicosia one.

Anyways, looking at pictures of the Nicosia airport, it's another throwback to the 60s, just like Hellinikon:

http://www.greeknewsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/nicosia-international-airport-2010.jpg
http://i.pbase.com/o6/20/7220/1/78087737.OOaviKVQ.Image171.jpg
http://i.pbase.com/o6/20/7220/1/78087730.kMMnEafn.Image164.jpg
http://i.pbase.com/o6/20/7220/1/78087731.bdyO27mX.Image165.jpg
http://i.pbase.com/o6/20/7220/1/78087726.Zln1pVfV.Image159.jpg

Some people have talked about reopening this airport for both sides of the island to use, but there's very little interest in re-opening Nicosia, and it would be a waste of money. LCA (Larnaca) is now Cyprus' main airport, and brand new terminals were just built at both LCA and PFO (Paphos) in 2009 and 2008 respectively.

YU-AMC

October 17th, 2011, 06:21 AM

^ Thanks for sharing the images. I agree that the terminal was a nightmare one of a kind. As you may have pointed out, it is that nostalgia that brings back the memerories. The location of the airport, as well as single runway, that made Helikon Plane spotters' dream airport. I have been told, once you got of OA 747, some warm wind would hit you as you went off. That was sweet to experience as you arrive "back home" in Greece. Than again just as anything else, the time came up for the new ATH, as well as new ideas. I am glad for that.

SonOfSparta

November 22nd, 2011, 09:23 PM

I came across Hellenic Imperial Airways at http://www.hellenicairways.com/ , and I thought it had the worst name and ugliest logo of any Greek Airline I had ever seen, extremely tacky.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/1186/5371l.jpg

kostya

November 22nd, 2011, 09:43 PM

^^ +1!

skyduster

November 26th, 2011, 11:05 PM

Hellenic Imperial's name, logo, and livery are all absolutely hideous. And those B747-200's are at least 20 years old (Boeing produced them from 1971 to 1991). By contrast, the average fleet age for Aegean is 3.7 years; 6.2 for Olympic; 11.4 for Air Canada; 9.5 for Alitalia; 8.7 for Iberia; 13.2 for Air France; 6.9 for TAM; 10.8 for Cathay Pacific; 12.4 for British Airways; 4.3 for Etihad; or 5 for Aeroflot.

According to airfleets.net, the specific airplane in Son of Sparta's picture (SX-TIE) was manufactured in 1987 for Lufthansa.

This new airline has very ambitious plans to basically re-create the old Olympic that had flights to just about everywhere, even loss-making routes (although, the old Olympic always had top-notch safety).

For now, the only routes they serve are ATH-JNB and ATH-JFK; quite obviously hoping to bank on the "diaspora market" which is never a guaranteed success. And Hellenic Imperial can't even commit to these routes; the JFK route stopped on October 10, "awaiting delivery of a new A340", and is being re-started December 31. They only have 2 destinations (from ATH), and 4 B747-200s. Each destination only requires one aircraft for a daily flight both ways (flight can depart ATH on Monday at noon Athens time, arrive at JFK Monday 2PM New York time, depart for ATH Monday 3PM New York time, arrive ATH Tuesday 7AM Athens time, repeat). Why did they need to suspend the JFK route, as they wait for the delivery of the new A340?

Their website is a complete mess. Under "destinations" (Travel Information -> Destination Information), the airline claims Montreal, Toronto, Kuwait, and Dubai as destinations. Do they offer charters to these cities? There is no mention of Johannesburg. When you click on Kuwait, there's a picture of a South African flag in the foreground and [what looks a lot like] South African landscape in the background, but on the top left, it says "Kuwait".
http://www.hellenicairways.com/kuwait-kuwait-

On the maps under "flight schedules" (Travel Information -> Flight Schedules), they claim to fly to [what looks like] Beirut, Amman, Jeddah, Dubai, Johannesburg, and an unclear city in Morocco (Casablanca? Marrakech?). However, the airline does not fly to these destinations. Ironically, there's a picture on this webpage of a fake flight information display system, showing flights to Tokyo, Hong Kong, Miami, Rio de Janeiro, Sydney, Bangkok, Milan...none of which are served by the airline, nor does the airline claim to fly to these destinations (a real flight info display system would say "Tokyo-Narita" instead of just "Tokyo", for cities that have more than one major airport).

You can't book. With ATH-JFK flights restarting end of December (not that far away), you can't book through their website. The "booking system is down" as of 26 November.

Supposedly, according to wikipedia, Hellenic Imperial Airways was started by industry veterans. Maybe they have veteran pilots and mechanics, but it doesn't look like they know how to run a business (or a website).