Vietnam will build a $33 bln north-south railway

HANOI, Feb 6 (Reuters) - Vietnam will build a new north-south express railway at an estimated cost of $33 billion with help from Japan -- a project that would cut by two thirds the travelling time between capital Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, the government said.

State-run firm Vietnam Railways was allowed by Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung to invest on the 1,630-km (1,010 miles) track, a statement on the government's Web site ( www.vietnam.gov.vn ) late on Monday said.

The track, to be built over a six-year period with a wider gauge of 1,435 mm, will cut the Hanoi-Ho Chi Minh City travelling time to less than 10 hours, from more than 30 hours now.

Any idea what train they will use?

very damn ambitious project, but hey japan and korean got a lot of money, I heard from bbc.com news that they are the one funding the project with 70% projectile, using japan bullet train technology

HANOI: Vietnam plans to build a high-speed railroad with aid from Japan at an estimated cost of $33 billion in a project that would cut travel time by two-thirds between Hanoi in the north and Ho Chi Minh City in the south, the Vietnamese government said.

Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung gave approval to the state-run Vietnam Railways to invest in the 1,630- kilometer, or 1,010- mile, track, a statement on the government's Web site said Monday.

Dung has assigned Vietnam Railways to work with Japanese experts on a detailed investment plan, the statement said.

Seventy percent of the funding will come from the Vietnamese government, mainly in the form of Japanese official development assistance. Vietnam Railways will raise 30 percent of the cost from loans, Nguyen Huu Bang, director of the railroad company, said.

The train service monopoly does not release profit figures, but its revenues in 2006 rose 13.2 percent from the previous year to 5.3 trillion dong, or $330 million, the Vietnam News reported Tuesday.


apan is the biggest country donor to Vietnam. It has pledged $890 million in aid for the country this year, or 6.5 percent higher than the 2006 level of $835.6 million.

International governments and agencies have pledged a record $4.45 billion in aid to Communist-run Vietnam for this year as the Southeast Asian country seeks to improve its underdeveloped infrastructure.

The railroad, to be built over a six- year period, will reduce the train journey between the capital, Hanoi, and the commercial hub of Ho Chi Minh City to less than 10 hours from more than 30 hours.

Trains will be able to travel on the proposed line at speeds of up to 350 kilometers an hour, state-run media said.

Existing train service between the two cities is limited to a single track with a narrow gauge of 1,000 millimeters over 1,726 kilometers. The new line will use a wider gauge, 1,435 millimeters.

HANOI: Vietnam plans to build a high-speed railroad with aid from Japan at an estimated cost of $33 billion in a project that would cut travel time by two-thirds between Hanoi in the north and Ho Chi Minh City in the south, the Vietnamese government said.

Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung gave approval to the state-run Vietnam Railways to invest in the 1,630- kilometer, or 1,010- mile, track, a statement on the government's Web site said Monday.

Dung has assigned Vietnam Railways to work with Japanese experts on a detailed investment plan, the statement said.

Seventy percent of the funding will come from the Vietnamese government, mainly in the form of Japanese official development assistance. Vietnam Railways will raise 30 percent of the cost from loans, Nguyen Huu Bang, director of the railroad company, said.

The train service monopoly does not release profit figures, but its revenues in 2006 rose 13.2 percent from the previous year to 5.3 trillion dong, or $330 million, the Vietnam News reported Tuesday.


apan is the biggest country donor to Vietnam. It has pledged $890 million in aid for the country this year, or 6.5 percent higher than the 2006 level of $835.6 million.

International governments and agencies have pledged a record $4.45 billion in aid to Communist-run Vietnam for this year as the Southeast Asian country seeks to improve its underdeveloped infrastructure.

The railroad, to be built over a six- year period, will reduce the train journey between the capital, Hanoi, and the commercial hub of Ho Chi Minh City to less than 10 hours from more than 30 hours.

Trains will be able to travel on the proposed line at speeds of up to 350 kilometers an hour, state-run media said.

Existing train service between the two cities is limited to a single track with a narrow gauge of 1,000 millimeters over 1,726 kilometers. The new line will use a wider gauge, 1,435 millimeters.

Very impressive. It'd be nice to see it run through to Bangkok.

^ Given that there is no current rail link between HCM and Phnom Pehn nor PP and Bangkok it would be hard to see HSR being built in this corridor for another 20-30 years.

Of course new narrow guage lines are planned to link these three cities over the next 7 years (as part of the ASEAN/Trans Asia Singapore-Kunming link) but not HSR.

China steps up rail links with Vietnam, Myanmar, Thailand

KUNMING, Feb. 11 (Xinhua) -- Southwest China's Yunnan Province has speeded its pace to build four international railways linking Vietnam, Myanmar and Thailand, according to an official with the provincial government.

Vice governor of province Qin Guangrong said that the four outbound railways are significant to the transport and economic development of Yunnan province and the three ASEAN countries.

The rails linking Kunming, Yuxi and Ho Chi Minh city in Vietnam have been under smooth construction, and are scheduled for completion in 2009.

Qin said that his province will strive to start construction this year for the railway in Mengzi in Yunnan to the Sino-Vietnam border.

The preparatory work of the China-Myanmar railway expansion project has been in full swing.

The preliminary work of building Kunming-Bangkok railway has been launched, which will sharply improve the transport efficiency between the countries.

Any updates on the proposed Hanoi to Saigon (HCM) north - south line?

VIETNAM TENDER - NORTH-SOUTH EXPRESSWAY CONSTRUCTION
8 August 2008
Asia Pulse

TI Ref No: 3145617

Bidding Type: International Competitive Bidding

Financier: Asian Development Bank (ADB), Japan Bank for International Development, North-South Expressway Construction Project

Country: Vietnam

DESCRIPTION

Expressions of Interests are invited for North-South Expressway Construction Project (Ho Chi Minh City-Dau Giay Section).

Part of the proceeds from the JBICs loans will be applied to expenses for the civil works contracts for which this Invitation for prequalification issued.

The Vietnam Expressway Corporation (hereinafter "the Employer") intends to prequalify contractors for the following contracts under the captioned project:

Package 1: from Km 7+500 - Km 11 +000 including viaduct.

Package 2: Long Thanh Bridge from Km 11 +000 - Km 14+100

Package 3: from Km 14+ 100 - Km 23+900 including NH51 Interchange

The Prequalification Document, in the English language, may be purchased by interested Applicants on the submission of a written application to the address below and upon payment of a non-refundable fee of US$100 by cash. ASIAN DEVELOPMENT BANK (ADB), JAPAN BANK FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT

Organisation: VIETNAM EXPRESSWAY CORPORATION (VEC)

Client Address: Ministry of Transport Hamlet No.2 - Llnh Nam Ward, Hoang Mal District, Hanoi, Mr Tran Xuan Sanh Tel: +84 (0)4 6430275 Fax: +84 (0)4 643 0270, Vietnam

Surely the "North-South Expressway" is a road, not a railway.

Surely the "North-South Expressway" is a road, not a railway.
Yes, it is obviously a road project so let's just put it down to a late night by skyline...

VIETNAM TO DEVELOP MODERN, SUSTAINABLE RAILWAY SYSTEM

HANOI, Nov 21 Asia Pulse - Vietnam plans to develop a modern, rapid and sustainable railway transport system, with close connections to other modes of transport, helping to reduce traffic jams and the number of accidents, as well as contributing to socio-economic development in remote and disadvantaged areas.

According to a railway transport development strategy until 2020 with a vision to 2050, approved by the Prime Minister on November 20, the country will accelerate the development of the railway system nationwide, particularly in urban areas, in an effort to meet at least 13 per cent of passenger transport and 14 per cent of cargo transport demand by 2020.

Under the strategy, priority is to be given to the development of urban railway projects in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, including the Lao Cai-Hanoi-Hai Phong and Hanoi-Dong Dang routes, as well as the North-South Express Railway with a top speed of 350km/h.

The country plans to upgrade existing routes and build 5,000-9,000 passenger cars and over 50,000 cargo cars, to successfully meet domestic demand as well as successfully cater to the needs of exports.

By 2050, the railway sector aims to meet at least 20 per cent of the country's passenger and cargo transport demand as well as complete the North-South Express Railway, the trans-Asia Railway and a coastal route running along the Northern Delta.

The sector plans to target the export of railway equipment by then.

The High Speed Train of Vietnam is now cost Overrrun - up from 33 billion US$ to 55.8 Billion US$. It has to come up with the new route to shorten the distance form the existing 1726 km to 1,550 km with 27 stations including

1. Hà Nội (km 0)
2. Nam Định (km 87 of the old route)
3. Thanh Hóa (km 175 of the old route)
4. Vinh (km 319 of the old route = km 291 of the new route)
5. Đồng Hới (km 522 of the old route)
6. Đông Hà (km 622 of the old route)
7. Huế (km 688 of the old route)
8. Đà Nẵng (km 791 of the old route)
9. Tam Kỳ (km 865 of the old route)
10. Quảng Ngãi (km 928 of the old route)
11. Diêu Trì (km 1096 of the old route)
12. Nha Trang (km 1315 of the old route = km 1111 of the new route)
13. Tháp Chàm (km 1408 of the old route)
13. Biên Hòa (km 1697 of the old route)
14. Sài Gòn (km 1726 of the old route = km 1550 of the new route)

however, the land exappropriation of 4,170 Hectar is in need - adding the cost to 55.7 billion US$

Note: Any Vietnamese who knoe the list of 27 stations along with the km of the High Speed train station, please tive me an information NOW!
http://www.manager.co.th/IndoChina/ViewNews.aspx?NewsID=9520000015510

This was also posted in the Vietnam forum:

New Hanoi-HCMC ‘bullet train’ to cost $56 billion

A new high-speed express railway from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh City will cost nearly US$56 billion, said experts from the project manager Vietnam-Japan Consulting Joint Venture.

Some $35 billion of the funds will be used to build infrastructure for the North-South Express Railway, said the experts after meetings with the Vietnam Railway Corporation in Hanoi on Friday.

After analyzing three of the world’s most advanced high-speed railways – Japan’s Shinkansen, France’s TGV and Germany’s ICE – the experts suggested following the Shinkansen “bullet-train” model.

The 1,555 kilometer-long route, with 27 stations, will begin at Hanoi Station and end at Hoa Hung Station in HCMC. Trains on the new line will travel at speeds up to 350 km per hour.

A section of the route between Hanoi and Vinh, a town in the central province of Nghe An, as well as a section between HCMC and Nha Trang in the south-central province of Khanh Hoa, are both expected to come online in 2020. The whole line is scheduled for completion in 2035.

article (http://www.thanhniennews.com/politics/?catid=1&newsid=45899)

I love the part in the article which says TGV and ICE were looked at as alternative technologies.

Given that Japan is Vietnam's biggest source of foreign aid these days and that the consortium was a joint venture between Vietnam and Japan, you'd think the technology choice was a given.

But I guess there are still formalities.

In any case, I will certainly look forward to seeing this progress over my lifetime.

Vietnam announces plans for a bullet-train
Vietnam plans to invest 56 billion dollars and utilize Japanese technology in a new transnational rail link, according to Japanese media.

The high speed, bullet-train style link will connect the southern hub of Ho Chi Minh City with the northern capital, Hanoi. The journey at present has to be made on a train system that is a relic of colonialism and the 970 mile (1,560 km) journey can take three or more days.

The Japanese government is keen to support its railway industry, which is struggling domestically due to saturation. It is excited by the possibility of expanding its Shinkansen train system in overseas markets like Vietnam.

At present, although the Vietnamese government has given tentative approval to the deal, it is still to be finalized by Prime Minister Nguyen Huu Bang. Finance for the project is still to be found, with Hanoi seeking support from the Asian Development Bank and the World Bank. It is also seeking aid for the project from Japan.

Vietnam plans to start building three sections of the railway in areas where it sees it being most profitable. It also hopes to launch the first of its Shinkansen high speed trains by 2020. However, it is believed that Japan has suggested that because the financial forecasts for the project remain unrealistic, perhaps Vietnam should push the launch date back to 2036, or perhaps later.

Thanks to www.afp.com for the above quotes, for more information on this article please visit their website.
http://www.comparecarrentals.com/news/vietnam-announces-plans-for-a-bullet-train-53812481.html

Hopefully a Hanoi - Nanning HSR line will be built, linking Vietnam with China's massive system.

GDP of vietnam is about $70 Billion in 2007, the goverment budget in 2009 was calculated to be $23 billion, but the project need a fund from 33 billion US$ to 55.8 Billion US$,i hope it won`t get vietnam in a debt trouble,

perhaps Vietnam should push the launch date back to 2036, or perhaps later.
------------------------------------

oh```` did not see this, just conside my words as air!

Great news!
One day I would like to go from Saigon to Hanoi in 6 hours or less.
:)

Trans-Vietnam express railway project kicked off

source: Vietnamnet (http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/2009/09/868744/)


VietNamNet Bridge – The Vietnam Railways Corporation and the Japanese Engine and Carriage Export Association met on September 15 to consider the country’s biggest transportation project ever, the North-South express railway.

According to the chief of the Japan International Cooperation Agency’s (JICA) research group Iwata Shizuo, the Hanoi-HCM City express railway will be 1570km long, with 26 stations. The trains’ top speed will be 300km per hour. This railway is scheduled to open for passengers in 2026, with investment capital of around US$38 billion.

Japanese experts have suggested developing some priority sections first such as Hanoi-Thanh Hoa, Hanoi – Vinh, Hue – Da Nang, Nha Trang – HCM City and Phan Thiet – HCM City because these are big cities in Vietnam.

According to JICA’s research, the Hanoi – Vinh and HCM City – Nha Trang sections can open in 2026 and the entire route become operational by 2036.

Capital is a problem, said Japanese experts. National projects need investment from the state budget and private investors both. However, this is an attractive project with stable profit so it should lure private investors.

Deputy Minister of Transportation Ngo Duc Thinh said that the government has allocated capital for making and evaluating the investment report for this project. The Vietnam Railways Corporation has finalised this report to submit to the State Evaluation Council.

Thinh said that after the report is considered by the State Evaluation Council, it will be submitted to the National Assembly in May 2010. The Prime Minister has assigned related ministries and agencies to call for local and foreign investment for this project.


VietNamNet/VNE

http://mag.ashui.com/images/stories/200905/dsct1.jpg


cost of routes.

Hà Nội – Vinh (7,2 bill USD),
Hà Nội - Thanh Hóa (3,9 bill USD),
HCMC - Nha Trang (9 bill USD),
HCMC - Phan Thiết (3,7 bill USD),
Đà Nẵng - Huế (2,2 bill USD)

I hear about Malaysia Karla Lumpur Singapore High-speed Railway plan, when it link via Thailand and Cambodia, maybe a decade later we get there by train not airplane.

10 hours between Hanoi and Ho Chi Min is still a long time. How fast will the train travel?

Hopefully if they'll adopt a high-speed train, it can hook up to China's CRH network one day.

Sorry to bring this post back, but I read in a couple of places that mentioned the Japanese recommended using the Fastech 360 on this high speed rail line. Can anyone confirm if it's true?

I couldn't find any information regarding rolling stock, but here's a recent article I found regarding the project. I think the rolling stock issue isn't of much concern at the moment, besides it being Japanese; this line's completion date is so far in the future (if it happen's at all) that it's not important now. Also note the the price is increasing...

http://english.vovnews.vn/Home/HanoiHo-Chi-Minh-City-highspeed-railway-project-finalised/20103/113531.vov

Hanoi-Ho Chi Minh City high-speed railway project finalised

The Vietnam – Japan Consultancy Joint Venture (VJC) has completed a report on investment cost for construction of a Hanoi-Ho Chi Minh City high-speed railway.

Using Japanese Shinkansen technology, the 1,570km-long express route will allow trains to travel at 300km per hour. It will have a total of 27 stations, starting at Hanoi and ending at Hoa Hung. The total time from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh City will be about five and half hours.

The project is estimated to cost up to US$55.8 billion, including US$31 billion for building infrastructure and the remainder for equipment and land clearance.

The project will be divided into four phases. According to plan, the Hanoi-Vinh and Ho Chi Minh City-Nha Trang sections will be put into operation in 2020, Vinh –Da Nang section in 2030 and Da Nang-Nha Trang section in 2035.

The VJC consists of Vietnam’s Transport Investment and Construction Consultant Joint Stock Company (TRICC) and three Japanese partners - the Japan Transportation Consultants (JTC), the Japan Railway Technical Service (JARTS) and the Nippon Koei Co. Ltd.

I couldn't find any information regarding rolling stock, but here's a recent article I found regarding the project. I think the rolling stock issue isn't of much concern at the moment, besides it being Japanese; this line's completion date is so far in the future (if it happen's at all) that it's not important now. Also note the the price is increasing...

http://english.vovnews.vn/Home/HanoiHo-Chi-Minh-City-highspeed-railway-project-finalised/20103/113531.vov
When shall China complete their HSR to Hanoi?

Vietnam to build north-south express railway

Vietnam is planning to build a north-south express railway, the country's biggest transportation project ever, according to the Vietnam-Japan Consulting Joint Venture (VJC) here on Monday.

This project is part of the country's railway transport development strategy by 2020 with a vision to 2050, approved by Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung last November.

The railway will start from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh City. The Hanoi-Ho Chi Minh City express railway will be 1,570km long, with 27 stations. The trains' top speed will be 300 kilometers an hour.

The four-phase project is estimated to need an investment of over 55.8 billion U.S. dollars. The money will be sourced from the state budget, the Vietnam Railway Corporation and other investors.

According to VJC, some priority sections of the railway like the Hanoi-central Nghe An province and Ho Chi Minh City- central Khanh Hoa province can open in 2020. The entire route is expected to become operational by 2036.

When the railway is put into operation, it will take five hours and a half to travel from Vietnam's capital city Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh City, said VJC.

Source: Xinhua

Vietnam Railway To Install Standard Toilets

Vietnam Railway Corporation has planned to install standard toilets on its express trains by 2015 and on all of its trains by 2020, according to Vietnam news agency.

Furthermore, the corporation plans to invest about VND200 million (US$10,500) in each carriage to install the toilets equipped with advanced technology that will be able to properly dispose of waste.

Currently, 100 carriages have standard toilets.

-- BERNAMA

Vietnam is rocking it!

I'm kind of srprised that they haven't started construction yet, I swear I saw photos somewhere of elevated segments being constructed. On a side note, another thing that suprises me is the time period that will be required to construct the HSR (it seems so long, maybe it's the surge of reports on the CRH :lol:)

Yes it is of course! :)

Distance between Hanoi and HCM City is more than 1100km.
This is a very distance in every sense, and is a distance viable to be covered by air.
Is the HSR can be made available in a near future (rather than decades from now) and affordable to the masses, then go for it. But, this is not realistic. If at all, HSR even if available may only be affordable to a small section of the population.
What Vietnam need is modern railway that will serve not just the two citys, but all the towns and cities from North to South.
An alternative strategy: double track, electrify and modernise its metre gauge railway. As mentioned in another thread, this can reach 160km/h.
Such infrastructure can be shared with freight, making it even more economically viable.
Vietnam can be join hands with its neighbours like Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Myanmar, Malaysia to earnestly develop and modernise the metre gauge railway network to benefit all these countries.

Distance between Hanoi and HCM City is more than 1100km.
This is a very distance in every sense, and is a distance viable to be covered by air.
Is the HSR can be made available in a near future (rather than decades from now) and affordable to the masses, then go for it. But, this is not realistic. If at all, HSR even if available may only be affordable to a small section of the population.
What Vietnam need is modern railway that will serve not just the two citys, but all the towns and cities from North to South.
An alternative strategy: double track, electrify and modernise its metre gauge railway. As mentioned in another thread, this can reach 160km/h.
Such infrastructure can be shared with freight, making it even more economically viable.
Japan did both. The 1067 mm railways of Japan are modernised, double-tracked and electrified. And quite fast - 130 km/h is common, and they are dabbling with 160 km/h. But Japan also has incompatible wide gauge Shinkansen lines. The Tokaido main line and other narrow gauge lines duplicated by Shinkansen still exist and are very busy.

Vietnam has what, two thirds the population of Japan. Why should Vietnam not deserve having both upgraded narrow gauge rail network and HSR, like Japan?

Also, Hanoi to Saigon is over 1700 km. But Lanzhou to Urumqi is also over 1700 km. This is desert. Much fewer people than in Vietnam. Nevertheless Lanxin HSR is affordable and competitive with air. If a railway from Beijing through Xian and Lanzhou to Urumqi makes sense, surely so does a railway from Guangzhou through Nanning and Hanoi to Saigon?

Vietnam can be join hands with its neighbours like Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Myanmar, Malaysia to earnestly develop and modernise the metre gauge railway network to benefit all these countries.

Agreed. Remember Vietnam´s neighbour Yunnan too, and the metre gauge railway to Kunming. As well as Bangladesh, India and Pakistan.

^^
Hopefully a policy of building a dedicated high speed passenger route and upgrading of the metre gauge route for freight and local (affordable for the average worker) passenger trains will be implemented, much like in China.

Express railway project: The “Great Wall” for Vietnam?

source: VietNamNews (http://english.vietnamnet.vn/reports/201005/Express-railway-project-The-Great-Wall-for-Vietnam-912134/)


VietNamNet Bridge – Many National Assembly’s deputies felt insecure about the North-South railway project cost, estimated at $56 billion. Deputy Tran Ba Thieu, Director of Hai Phong Police Agency, disagreed: “If the Government is determined, why doesn’t the NA support them? If Qin Shi Huangdi had not been drastic, how could China have its Great Wall today?”

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/dataimages/201005/original/images1970802_1.jpg
NA Committee for Culture-Education, Youth and Children Vice-Chair Nguyen Minh Thuyet compared this project with a poor couple who must struggle to take care of their children, but when they see their neighbors buy a car, they also borrow money to buy one too.

Vietnam’s GDP 2009 was $90 billion. The capital for this project is $56 billion and may climb higher in the next 30 years, along with inflation, observed NA Legal Committee Chair Nguyen Van Thuan on May 21.

He wondered about the source of capital. “The government’s debt is up to 42 percent. If this project is carried out, where will the money come from? Haven’t we learned a lesson from Greece, which is in crisis because of public debts and needs assistance from all of Europe? We can’t approve this project to let our children bear this debt,” Thuan argued.

Thuan cited some projects that looked very good on paper, such as the Ho Chi Minh highway. When this highway was opened for traffic, it didn’t attract vehicles.

“The (railway) project is quite lavish. I will not approve it. We will reconsider it in the next 10-20 years. If I approve it now, I will feel like I am making a mistake for future generations,” he added.

NA Committee for Culture-Education, Youth and Children Vice-Chair Nguyen Minh Thuyet compared this project with a poor couple who must struggle to take care of their children, but when they see their neighbors buy a car, they also borrow money to buy one too.

Thuyet is also concerned about the huge capital needed for this project when Vietnam must invest in other big projects, including nuclear power plants in Ninh Thuan province. The Vice-Chair questioned why only 11 countries in the world have built express railways.

Thuyet raised several questions: “We hope that with this express railway, we can have breakfast in HCM City, lunch in Da Nang and dinner in Hanoi. HCM City’s residents can work in Hanoi and return home within the day. But who can afford train fare that is equivalent to 50-70 percent of air fares? Without passengers, how can we retrieve capital?”

Supporting these views, Deputy Le Van Tam (Can Tho) asserted that the express railway is a “luxurious” project, Deputy Ngo Van Minh (Quang Nam) characterized it as “too romantic” while Deputy Phuong Huu Viet (Bac Giang) called it “sudden inspiration.” Deputies Ha Thanh Toan (Can Tho) and Ngo Van Minh (Quang Nam) questioned why a rich country like the US has no transnational express highway, while a poor country like Vietnam wants to pursue such a huge project?

“Vietnam is a poor country where most people live in rural areas where life and traffic is very difficult. Building an express railway is lavish and unfair,” concluded Deputy Le Van Tam.

Many deputies cited the case of Noi Bai International Airport in Hanoi, calling it untidy with plastic buckets used to catch rain water and citing how it sometimes takes over two hours to go from downtown to the airport. They concurred that the current railway is both outdated and unsafe, so the Government should not “draw” new projects.

NA Committee for Foreign Relations Chair Nguyen Van Son claimed that this is a “magnificent” project for the next 50-70 years.

Some deputies suggested building the HCM City-Nha Trang or Hanoi-Vinh segment on a trial basis as a learning experience.

Deputy Nguyen Ba Thanh, Party Secretary of Da Nang, is not worried about the capital, because Vietnam can borrow money and pay. Instead he is concerned about the way this project is to be implemented. “We plan to build 1570km, but only 364km will run on land, the remaining will be bridges and tunnels when geological conditions are complicated. If an incident happens, it will be very difficult to resolve,” Thanh warned.

“I only hope that the express railway can reach 200km/hour. We should not be too romantic in building a railway for 300km/h or to build the longest express railway in the world,” he added.

Deputy Nguyen Tan Trinh revealed his unease about safety issues, citing how children still throw bricks and stones at passing trains. “We can’t deal with people’s awareness of railway safety, so how can we ensure safety for express trains?” Trinh cautioned.

Many deputies also questioned the Japanese EMU technology, which may become outdated in the next 25 years.

“This project will also make affect the natural flow of rivers, especially in the central region, causing changes to the environment,” remarked Deputy Vu Thi Phuong Anh (Quang Nam).

Most deputies proposed not approving the plan right now because it is not very necessary.

“We should upgrade and perfect current road and railway systems. To serve cargo transportation, it is better to invest in waterway networks,” suggested Deputy Ha Thanh Toan.

Deputy Phung Thanh Kiem (Lang Son) noted: “The National Assembly still complains about the Government’s inaccurate forecast for 5-10 year strategies, while we sit here talking about a traffic project for the next 23 years. Is it practical?”

Deputy Tran Du Lich (HCM City) proposed that technology, economics and life will change greatly in the next 20 years. “What mean of transport will be the major one in the next 15-20 years? It should not be cars because this is a personal vehicle. Waterways? We have developed them, but we should consider further expansion. Trains will be the major vehicles and we should have invested in railways a long time ago,” Lich analyzed.

He went on to say that if Vietnam chooses normal trains that can run at the speed of 200km/h, when the country need express trains it will be unable to upgrade. “In the early 1990s, our telecommunications system was a zero. At that time, we discussed what to choose, analog or digital. Luckily, we selected digital technology and that was a sound strategy. What would have happened if we had chosen analog?” Lich questioned.

Based on these points, Lich argued that the express railway project is suitable for Vietnam, but wondered about difficulties in choosing contractors.

“It would be a problem if we compare $56 billion with GDP. But if we share it for 20 years, then the figure is not too high,” Lich estimated.

Deputy Pham Thi Loan (Hanoi) pointed out that Taiwan planned to build express railway system at a cost of $27 billion, but the real cost was only $16 billion and it needed only 20 years to retrieve capital. Loan suggested allowing the public and foreign investors to take part in this project to quickly retrieve capital.

Minister of Planning and Investment Vo Hong Phuc reasoned that this project must be considered based on Vietnam’s development, not current conditions. Japan built its express railway after the Second World War and paid its debt to the World Bank after 40 years.

Deputies from the provinces where the express railway will pass through praised the railways in the US and some European countries they witnessed with their own eyes.

Minister of Transportation Ho Nghia Dung provided more information on the project. He explained that the current railway system in Vietnam was built 120 years ago and it was a great work at that time. “The current development of the economy poses the need for investment in railways, he proposed.

About the biggest concern, that of capital, Dung explained that Vietnam may have to mobilize capital from various sources, but the capital structure for this project is not defined yet.

As for safety, Dung responded that two-thirds of the rail line will run through viaducts, far from residential areas, and that there will be fences for other segments.

The Minister averred that Vietnam should build this system, giving priority to the HCM City-Nha Trang and Hanoi-Vinh sections. “After these segments are built, we will consider the actual situation to make decisions about the construction of remaining segments,” he stated.

The NA will continue its discussion about the express railway project on June 8.


PV

Two ministers defend express rail project

source: VietNamNet (http://english.vietnamnet.vn/reports/201005/Two-ministers-defend-express-rail-project-911939/)


VietNamNet Bridge – Admitting that the North-South express railway project is an extremely large project that costs half of Vietnam’s annual GDP, both the Ministers of Transportation and Finance focused on praising its “social effects.”

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/dataimages/201005/original/images1970636_1.jpg

Minister of Transportation Ho Nghia Dung surrounded by reporters on the sideline of the 7th NA session.

Transportation Minister Ho Nghia Dung, Finance Minister Vu Van Ninh and the National Assembly’s Committee for Finance-Budget Chair Phung Quoc Hien on May 20 spoke with the press about this project on the sidelines of the 7th NA session.

Is Vietnam capable of building the North-South express railway at this time?

Minister of Transportation Ho Nghia Dung: The current railway system doesn’t meet present needs, putting pressure on the road system and urging the development of personal transport, resulting in traffic jams and accidents.

Our mission is to construct a railway system to transport huge volumes of goods and large numbers of passengers to share the load with other forms of transportation along the North-South route.

The Government proposed upgrading the current railway to ensure train speeds of 80km/hour for cargo transportation and 120km/hour for passenger transportation, while building a high-speed rail route with speeds up to 350km/hour.

We will apply the most modern technology in the world to build this railway.

This (express railway) is the chance to re-arrange the country’s transportation structure and to connect the two economic centres in the fastest way to form the North-South urban aegis.

This route will help travelers save time and money, reduce the pressure on the road system, curb gridlocks and connect to highway, aviation and waterway transportation.

This project will surely help reduce fatal traffic accidents, promote economic exchange among the regions and ensure security and defence.

NA’s Finance-Budget Committee Chair Phung Quoc Hien: This is a visionary project. When the railway is put into use in 2030, the income of our people may reach $3000/person/year, not $1000. So we must set train fares based on income at that time. Anyway, the train fare will cheaper than air fares.

Some countries enlarge their gauges to raise their transportation capability, why don’t we choose this?

Minister Dung: Among four options proposed by the Government, there were plans to expand the gauge. But let’s image that if we enlarge the current 1m rail to 1.435m, the current North-South railway will have to shut down. Site clearance is also very costly.

What do you think about the feasibility of this project?

Minister Dung: The investment report analyses the economic-social and economic-financial effectiveness of this project already. I may say that its economic effectiveness may not be high, but in the broader view, investment capital can be refunded.

As the Government’s debt is rising, should we continue to borrow capital to implement this project in 2012?

Minister Dung: This is just an investment report submitted to the NA for consideration of whether or not it is feasible.

If the NA decides to implement it, we will have to consult with partners about loans and loan conditions plus other things.

This is an extremely big project, which accounts for 50 percent of annual GDP and will be implemented until 2025, with over $2 billion of capital/year in the first ten years. Investment in transportation currently accounts for only 7 percent of total social investment, while it should be 15 percent. With this project, the total investment for transportation will reach 15 percent, still an acceptable level.

Finance Minister Vu Van Ninh: Borrowing capital for this project is necessary because our infrastructure is very poor, which hinders the country’s development.

Our reserves are still small while we must solve two missions simultaneously: investment for development and ensuring social welfare. Our source of capital for investment is not abundant, so we must borrow money.

The economic impact of this project is not very high, but in the long run and in social terms, it is good.

Hien: We have to accept the fact that we can’t recover the investment capital immediately from all projects. Initially, we must use capital from the state budget to build infrastructure. Certainly, we must ensure national financial security as the top priority.

This is a long-term project. In its report, the Government explained that capital will be mobilized from various economic sectors. In the first phase, budget funds will be used reasonably to attract capital for this project.

This project will be carried in 25 years and during that long period, many things will change. Experts have estimated that the capital may reach $100 billion, not $56 billion. What do you think?

Hien: Calculations are quite accurate because they are based on highly technical parameters. The capital may rise by 13 percent. The risk is not high and we may need more money to pay for site clearance and resettlement.

According to the NA’s Committee for Finance-Budget, Vietnam must borrow capital for the infrastructure project. Is the government’s debt at a worrisome level?

Finance Minister Ninh: Vietnam doesn’t have any overdue debt and this is the healthiness of our finance.

Like a family building their house, if they don’t have enough money, they must borrow capital and then save to pay the debt. It is very normal.

The safety level is set by the Government at 50 percent of GDP. Depending on economic potential, some countries may set higher levels. It is important to pay debts. If the debt is small, but you can’t pay it, then you will still go bankrupt.


Le Nhung


Former Minister of Transportation Dao Dinh Binh said that Vietnam needs a North-South express railway but it should not build this route right now.

Binh said Vietnam should develop the express highway instead of express railway because there will have not enough passengers and Vietnam’s economic potential is not strong enough.

Many experts had the same idea with Binh, saying that the investor’s forecast of passenger volume is too optimistic. They also worried about the source of capital for this huge project.

Experts fear North-South express railway cost could reach $100 billion

source; VietNamNet


VietNamNet Bridge – Vietnam’s technical elite discussed the feasibility and financial projections of the mammoth North-South high-speed railway project at a seminar in Hanoi on May 11.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/dataimages/201005/original/images1964356_1.JPG
The express railway (black line) will run from Hanoi to HCM City.

In principle, everyone’s for the project, reports Tuoi Tre. All twelve members of a panel convened by VUSTA (the Union of Scientific and Technological Associations) expect the project to be implemented soon. However, panelists expressed concerns about the feasibility of the plan, site clearance tasks and especially the apparently ever-rising cost of the project, now pegged at $55.8 billion.

Dr. Khuat Viet Hung, vice director of the Institute for Transportation Planning and Development, said that the project meets a critical need for passenger transportation between north and south and it will stimulate urban development along the route. However, Hung added, the investment report submitted to the National Assembly for its consideration has shortcomings. It doesn’t specify the technology needed or address risks to the national economy. He recalled that “Thailand launched a project of express railways and highways but it had to cancel this work in the late 1990s during the so-called Asian financial crisis.”

Pham Sy Liem, head of the Institute for Urban Research and Infrastructure Development and concurrently vice chairman of the Construction Federation, believes that the investment report was compiled and assessed too quickly, considering the scale of the project. “We must be sure that the plan is studied dispassionately, and make sure that various ‘pressures’ don’t push us into a swamp.”

Dr. Nguyen Quang A said: “At first hearing, the project sounds very good. I’d love to see it implemented immediately. However, do we have the strength to carry it out, at the same time that we are taking on a lot of other big projects?” Dr. A noted that a critical assumption in the plan for the 1600 kilometer, six hour high speed rail link between Hanoi and HCM City is annual GNP growth averaging 6.4 percent for the next twenty-five years.

By 2035, A calculated, Vietnam’s annual GDP may reach $500-600 billion. At the same time, the total capital requirement for the express rail link could inflate by another 30 percent to around $100 billion, accounting for 16 to 18 percent of GDP, rather than the $55.8 billion currently forecast.

“We will have to borrow capital to build it. Suppose we get into the sort of trouble facing Greece? Greece has been saved by the rest of Europe. Who will save us?” A asked.

Prof. Nguyen Xuan Truc of the Road and Bridge Science Association expressed concern whether projections of demand for seats on the North-South express trains are accurate. “In foreign countries,” Truc said, “the majority of passengers on express trains are workers who travel from their home to distant offices. In Vietnam, will people in Nghe An use the express train to go to Hanoi to work?”

Truc added that he backed the project, “but still I wonder about the cost-benefit analysis. The state believes in us and makes decisions based on our data so we are partly responsible if there’s a wrong decision.”

Dr. Nguyen Dinh Hoe, speaking for the Association for Natural and Environmental Protection, said that the project still lacks a detailed report on environmental impacts. Nearly 1400 hectares of forest will be destroyed for the construction of the express railway, he pointed out. Further, some 214 kilometers of raised roadbed is likely to have major impacts on drainage, especially after storms, similar to the problems that arose in Quang Nam and Quang Ngai provinces when the present railroad and Highway One were built.

“Over 16,000 families will be affected; twice as many must be relocated as in the Son La hydropower project. This is a big problem,” Hoe worried.

Nguyen Huu Bang, general director of the Vietnam Railway Corporation, the principal investor of this huge project, listened carefully. Speaking after the experts, Bang said that the high speed rail project is now only in its first stage, that is, presenting a plan for the National Assembly to consider and make a decision in principle. The report only addresses the necessity of investing in such a project. It does not go deeply into other contents.

Bang said that everything in the report to the Assembly is a projection and concept; it’s a pre-feasiblility report. Vietnam does not have experience in high-speed rail and must learn from other countries. They’ll help with the technical details. Once the project has been approved by the National Assembly, Bang added, the investors will collaborate on a feasibility report, which will analyze data related to the source of capital, debt management, and environmental impacts.


PV

Vietnam's high-speed railway to come with hefty price tag

source: EarthTimes (http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/324820,vietnams-high-speed-railway-to-come-with-hefty-price-tag.html)


Hanoi - Vietnam's proposal to build a 56-billion-dollar high-speed railway from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh City may be more than the country can afford, economists and National Assembly deputies said Friday.

The government submitted its plan for the railway, to be built with Japanese technical assistance, to the National Assembly on Thursday.

The railway would stretch 1,570 kilometres and cut the travel time between Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City from at least 36 hours today to under 10 hours.

Foreign development assistance and loans from the World Bank would be needed to finance the project. Critics say the debt would be too large to recoup at realistic ticket prices in a low- to middle-income country like Vietnam.

"We don't have passengers for this railroad," said senior economist Le Dang Doanh, a former adviser to the prime minister who calls for the project to be broken into smaller stages. "If we sell the tickets at a high price, people will choose other means of transport, like buses. The project is not calculated carefully."

Speaking to reporters at the National Assembly on Thursday, transportation minister Ho Nghia Dung admitted the project, which would cost over half of Vietnam's current annual gross domestic product (GDP) of 90 billion dollars, was not efficient in economic terms.

But he did argue for its "social effectiveness" and capacity to boost exchanges between the country's north and south.

Many National Assembly deputies were sceptical of the project. In the assembly's meetings Thursday, Danh Vu Minh, chairman of the assembly's Technology and Environment Committee, noted that with the national debt currently at over 42 per cent of GDP, further indebtedness was risky.

Cao Si Kiem, former governor of the country's State Bank, said the government had not clarified the project's transport benefits or explained how it would raise the needed funds.

Another deputy, former minister of transportation Dao Dinh Binh, said the government should prioritise highways due to the lack of current demand for high-speed rail.

International analysts generally emphasise the poor state of Vietnam's road network, the shortage of rail freight and lack of port capacity as the country's top transportation priorities.

Copyright DPA

I have to agree that this is just too expensive for Vietnam. I mean, numbers do not lie. If a country has a GDP of 90 billion, it cannot just spend 55 billion on a single railroad project. On the other hand, this type of infrastructure projects are musts for development so the appropriate method is to build this project in small pieces over at least 25-30 years.

I have to agree that this is just too expensive for Vietnam. I mean, numbers do not lie. If a country has a GDP of 90 billion, it cannot just spend 55 billion on a single railroad project.

How do the costs of the 968 km Guangzhou-Wuhan railway compare?

I have to agree that this is just too expensive for Vietnam. I mean, numbers do not lie. If a country has a GDP of 90 billion, it cannot just spend 55 billion on a single railroad project. On the other hand, this type of infrastructure projects are musts for development so the appropriate method is to build this project in small pieces over at least 25-30 years.

I believe the current plan calls for completion in 2035. They really do need to start soon, as costs will only go up...

I can fully emphatise with the concerns.
Borrowing is no brainer. But, we have to consider if this will only burden the next generation.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, given the constraints and the state of development and affordability of the population, the priority should be to upgrade the meter gauge railway to serve passengers and freight better.

Please see other thread "Future of Metre Guage Railway".
Neighbouring Malaysia is doing 160km/h on meter gauge.
I firmly believe, Vietnam, together with Thailand, Malaysia, and the rest in the SEA peninsula can do a lot in joint R&D to fully exploit their existing metre gauge railway.

If a 160km/h train can be realise in 5 years, why get bogged down with debating a 300km/h HSR that may not material even in 30 years?

Finally, policy development is about choices, trade-offs. One has to be pragmatic.

Meter gauge manufacturers, here's a chance to serve this largely ignored market. A large part of the world is still without decent railway, such as in South East Asia, Africa, South America. Instead of waiting for HSR or prohibitive cost of conversion to standard gauge, why not upgrade the metre gauge with the latest technologies.
As I mentioned, at 160km/h or even 120km/h, metre gauge railway is already far superior to roads, and will be able to serve all the needs of freight and local/regional traffic.

High speed long distance travels (say > 1000km) is still limited to the privileged few, even if HSR is available. Leave this to air travel in the meantime. It is actually more effective, and less impactful to the environment.

geographically the high speed railway would be such a perfect choice. economic feasibility is a different story though.

the original budget for Wuhan-Guangzhou HSR is about 13.7 billion dollars, but i read somewhere the actual cost is reported to be 17.1 billion dollars
How do the costs of the 968 km Guangzhou-Wuhan railway compare?

the original budget for Wuhan-Guangzhou HSR is about 13.7 billion dollars, but i read somewhere the actual cost is reported to be 17.1 billion dollars

Even at 17.1 billion dollars, that is a bargain (approx 17.7 million dollars per KM).

Vietnam's Bullet Train Dream

source: asiasentinel (http://asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2514&Itemid=213)


Hanoi pushes ahead to build a Japanese-designed bullet train system whether it needs it or not.

http://www.asiasentinel.com/images/stories/smoothgallery/JAN2008/viet-hitachi-javelin-train.jpg

The idea of having a super-fast train that would reducing travel time between Hanoi and Ho Chi
Minh City from 30 hours to six has inspired Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung and his lieutenant, Minister for Transport Ho Nghia Dung, to push through an agreement with the Japanese even as intense debate was still going ahead in the National Assembly.

The government last August granted basic approval for the state-owned Vietnam Railways Corp. to use technology supplied by the famed Shinkansen Company for a US$56 billion, 1,560 km rail link across the S-shaped country.
The bullet train debate dominated the agenda in the National Assembly in May this year, but with little progress. Despite strong opposition, both the Vietnamese public and the National Assembly were startled by news reports from Japan that a deal had already been reached between the Nguyen Tan Dung government and Shinkansen, under which the Japanese company would sell the technology and build the bullet train, making the debate pointless in the face of a fait accompli.

Vietnam observers now believe the bullet train proposal is going down the same track as legislation last year to allow the development of vast bauxite mining – and potentially polluting -- operations in the Central Highlands despite widespread public protest including even an open letter from Vietnam War hero Vo Nguyen Giap to wait until the project could be studied. All but a handful of National Assembly deputies were pressed into approving the bauxite exploration because "it has been instructed by the Party." In this light, the bullet train is expected to go ahead, no matter what.

But the obvious problem is that such a project would squeeze tightly an economy that has just come out of poverty, with annual per capita income at around US$800. Critics have calculated a massive volume of foreign debt that Vietnamese future generations would have to repay should it go ahead. The US$56 billion alone would represent more than half of Vietnam's total gross domestic product, forecast at US$97 billion in 2010, with total costs potentially climbing to over $100 billion by the time it is completed, analysts say, and raises questions whether the funds could be used to develop less expensive and more necessary infrastructure such as roads or conventional rail to replace the current system, which dates back to the French colonial period.

Japanese officials, obviously anxious to sell such an expensive project, have said Vietnam's total public debt is far below Japan's and that the country can afford it. But Japan is the second most heavily indebted country in the world as a percentage of gross domestic product next to Zimbabwe, which is a basket case from years of economic mismanagement
Vietnam, with nearly 90 million people, has spent nearly 30 years recovering from a savage war exacerbated by the loss of financial support with the collapse of the Soviet Union and its disastrous flirtation with a command economy. The labor force is growing by more than a million new faces a year although the export-led economy has averaged 7 percent annual growth for a decade -- until the onset of the global financial crisis cut exports by nearly 10 percent annually. While domestic investment has been healthy at 16 percent, foreign direct investment nosedived by 70 percent in 2009.

Under those circumstances, the train, said a Vietnamese scientist, "is ridiculously extravagant."

There are also questions over its utility. The Shinkansen system is designed only to transport passengers, not cargo, and the economic benefits of a bullet train system are less than apparent with long-term state subsidies required to build and operate the system. None of the 12 developed countries that have bullet trains borrowed from overseas to build the systems.

The Japanese ambassador, Mitsuo Sakaba, is urging caution, saying on May 31 that "Vietnam needs to carefully consider the project to use Shinkansen technology and the benefits the project might bring about." In an interview with the Vietnamese newspaper Lao Dong, Sakaba cited a study by the Japanese International Cooperation Agency foreseeing little use of the route by 2020 and suggesting that the Japanese government would wait for the matter be debated in parliament before deciding if and how it might cooperate.

To counter opposition to the project on cost grounds, Deputy Prime Minister Nguyen Sinh Hung* has now announced a "new strategy for foreign debts." Looking into the next two decades, as the Vietnamese economy grows to a more advanced level, more foreign overseas development aid and development investment are expected to pour in, making greater borrowing possible, Minister Hung told the public.

The critics of the train project include former government ministers, war veterans, leading scientists, overseas Vietnamese intellectuals and a large number of bloggers. The government's suppression of the freedom of speech and pre-Congress strict media censorship have driven most of the critics of the project to air their protests on the internet, using pseudonyms.

Against the well-knit government propaganda machinery, the opposition has had little influence. However, why is there such a sudden fuss? Why does the government keep pushing ahead with such an extravaganza? Speculation in the media in Hanoi suggests two possibilities. One relates to internal fighting in the ruling Communist Party. By supporting the bullet train system, Dung's opponents among the Politburo are said to be laying a trap that would direct mounting public criticism to him personally. According to this theory, his enemies want to get rid of him in the next Party Congress, due early 2011.

The other theory is that the super train debate is being used by the leadership to distract the public from more sensitive issues such as the simmering tension with China on the South China Sea over the Spratly Islands and the regional arms race going on in Southeast Asia. Stability in the Vietnamese public is traditionally required before a Communist Party Congress. Evidence for both explanations is mostly anecdotal.

In recent years, government and corporate heads in Vietnam have been obsessed with the idea of leaving their mark while in office, thus creating "biggest things." Recent Vietnamese Guinness achievements include the biggest square cake and the biggest bottle of wine, both for King Hung (of the Ancient Viet), and a gigantic coffee cup. A bullet train is best seen as yet another attempt that reflects the Guinness-driven mentality, the critics say.
*Nguyen Sinh Hung's title was inadvertently misstated in an earlier version. We thank a reader for his correction.

Critics urge brakes on Vietnam's high-speed rail

HANOI — The Reunification train sits baking on the Hanoi platform as passengers settle in to hard wooden seats next to open windows.

Almost two days of travel lie ahead before it reaches southern Ho Chi Minh City, but a controversial government plan would cut that journey to less than six hours.

Vietnam's communist authorities are seeking legislative approval for a bullet train that would cover the 1,570-kilometre (975 mile) distance at speeds of 300 kilometres an hour.

It would be built by 2035 and cost 56 billion dollars, almost 60 percent of the country's gross domestic product (GDP) last year. That price tag has left a cross-section of society questioning the government's priorities.

"Our country is still poor," Tran Hung Viet, one of many National Assembly deputies to criticise the plan during legislative debates, was quoted as saying by VNExpress news website.

The debates are closed to foreign reporters but have been widely covered in local media ahead of a June 19 vote on the plan.

While the government talks of mega-projects, some children in the Central Highlands can only get to school by swinging on a cable across a river because they have no bridge, Assembly member Nguyen Minh Thuyet told AFP.

Vietnam is developing rapidly, but roughly half the population still works in agriculture, the per capita income is about 1,000 dollars, and the minimum government salary is 730,000 dong (38 dollars) per month.

Modern shopping malls and fast-food restaurants in Ho Chi Minh City, the country's commercial centre, are a world away from ethnic minority hamlets of central Quang Tri province, where dirty-looking children play outside roughly-built homes of wood and corrugated metal.

For Nguyen Hoai Thu, 22, a Hanoi college student, the Reunification train may not be perfect but it gets her home economically to Ha Tinh province, 350 kilometres south of Hanoi.

"It takes only eight hours and it costs me just 86,000 dong," she said.

A bullet train could make the journey in just over one hour but Tran Thi Ca, 65, also heading to Ha Tinh on the single-track railroad, said the funds could be put to better use.

"We should save the money to upgrade the roads, to give to poor farmers," she said.

That is a common view, as most ordinary people would prefer the government to focus on more immediate concerns like healthcare and electricity, said Le Dang Doanh, a visiting fellow at the Economic College of Hanoi.

Doanh is "urgently" calling for rejection of the plan which he said would benefit only a limited number of wealthier people.

He argued that over a long distance the train could not compete with airlines. A rail ticket would cost about 70 percent of a flight from Hanoi to Ho Chi Minh City, which takes only two hours by plane.

Modernising the current train system and further developing maritime transport and roads would be more efficient, Doanh said.

He described the high-speed train investment as "very risky" given the country's economic imbalances.

According to the World Bank, Vietnam's budget deficit reached a "very high" 8.4 percent of GDP last year. Public debt accounted for about 47.5 percent of GDP, which the World Bank said was high but sustainable if the government is prudent.

The Bank does not object to the high-speed train but said it has no involvement.

Japanese officials say the Vietnamese government has agreed to adopt its Shinkansen technology for the railway, which needs formal approval by the National Assembly.

Although more than 90 percent of deputies are Communist Party members, the parliament has in recent years become more vocal over the country's major problems.

Japanese Transport Minister Seiji Maehara said his government will consider financial assistance for the railway, which he proposed be opened in stages, according to Japan's Jiji Press.

A Vietnamese government spokesman has been quoted as assuring the high-speed railway will not bankrupt the nation.

There is no time to waste, according to Nguyen Huu Bang, general director of the state-owned Vietnam Railways Corp.

"This is a project of the future but we ought to start implementing it right now, lest we be ready too late," he said, quoted by VietnamNet news portal.

"It will put Vietnam in the first rank of rail travel."

Doanh, the economist, said the project seems to reflect the government's strong desire to develop the country but, "it looks very much like a white elephant."

Source: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jZt1P7ZKoy4cwjdo9y9vSc7-NloA

Vietnam legislature rejects bullet train project
HANOI : Vietnam's legislature on Saturday rejected a proposed 56-billion-dollar bullet train project, after concerns that more basic needs should take priority over a scheme dismissed as economically unsound.

In a rare decision by the communist-dominated National Assembly, which usually backs proposals from the government, deputies said they had asked for further study of the plan.

"The National Assembly did not approve a resolution on this project," one deputy, Duong Trung Quoc, told AFP after the vote, which was closed to foreign reporters.

He said a slight majority of 20-30 deputies voted against the plan.

Under the communist government's proposal, the train would have linked the capital Hanoi with the southern commercial hub of Ho Chi Minh City 1,570-kilometres (975 miles) away, at speeds of 300 kilometres an hour.

On the country's existing single-track railway, the journey takes almost two days.

Plans called for the high-speed link to be built by 2035 at a cost amounting to almost 60 percent of the country's gross domestic product (GDP) last year.

"I think it's a reasonable result that shows the responsibility of the deputies," Quoc said of the rejection.

Although more than 90 percent of the nearly 500 deputies are Communist Party members, they have in recent years become more vocal over the country's major problems.

Assembly president Nguyen Phu Trong said the North-South train was a very important project which became "a particular preoccupation" of deputies and voters.

"The National Assembly examined it in a serious manner, carefully and prudently, and charged the government with continuing to examine the country's transport system," Trong told the assembly.

Le Dang Doanh, a visiting fellow at the Economic College of Hanoi, told AFP ahead of Saturday's vote that most ordinary people would prefer the government focus on more immediate concerns such as healthcare and electricity.

He called the train a "very risky" investment given the country's economic imbalances.

According to the World Bank, Vietnam's budget deficit reached a "very high" 8.4 percent of GDP last year. Public debt accounted for about 47.5 percent of GDP, which the World Bank said was high but sustainable if the government is prudent.

"Our country is still poor," Tran Hung Viet, one of many deputies to criticise the plan during debates, was quoted as saying by VNExpress news website.

Vietnam is developing rapidly, but roughly half the population still works in agriculture, the per capita income is about 1,000 dollars and the minimum government salary is 730,000 dong (38 dollars) per month.

Japanese officials have said the Vietnamese government had agreed to adopt its Shinkansen technology for the railway, if the project were approved. http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1064400/1/.html

I'm just wondering/ throwing this idea out into the open, what are the chances that Vietnam would consider joining and getting help from China to build the system? I mean like wouldn't it be more cost worthy if they got an estimate from China on construction as they already have the expertise on building HSR (learning from others)? I just find it kind of difficult to understand how Vietnam's ruling party is so different compared with the Chinese ruling party.

I'm just wondering/ throwing this idea out into the open, what are the chances that Vietnam would consider joining and getting help from China to build the system? I mean like wouldn't it be more cost worthy if they got an estimate from China on construction as they already have the expertise on building HSR (learning from others)? I just find it kind of difficult to understand how Vietnam's ruling party is so different compared with the Chinese ruling party.

There's a lot of nervousness about falling under Chinese influence, but they haven't ruled out Chinese participation. In any case, China has set the cost benchmarks for HSR and these are known to the public.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/reports/201006/Express-railway-project-will-involve-many-countries-many-contractors-916981/

"Reporter: Vietnamese experts went to China to see its express train. Will we use this technology?

Dung: We haven’t excluded China’s technology. There will be many sub-projects in the express railway project, so there will be many contractors. Frankly, I’ve never talked with Chinese officials about this project."

^^The Vietnamese struck a deal with the Japanese for this project, which included among other things technology and loans. So I don't think their Japanese partners would allow them to renege this deal and seek Chinese help if they wanted to.

^^The Vietnamese struck a deal with the Japanese for this project
Well, the deal required a parliamentary approval, which wasn't granted. So the deal is off, just like Hitachi's UK deal.

Vietnam link is one of few high speed rail projects where a Chinese bid makes sense, because it is about constructing an all new railway link from scratch(Vietnam's existing narrow gauge railways cannot be recycled), and there is no Western-standard intellectual property rights law that's holding back Chinese from selling CRH380A to Vietnam.

So yes, the Chinese bid is feasible in Vietnam on a more favorable financial term, in exchange for a linkage with Chinese high speed railway system.

The real barrier to Chinese bid is the historical and political animosity between Vietnam and China, as Vietnam sees China as a threat and prefer not to deal with China. This is the reason Japanese bid was selected over Chinese bid in the first place, even at a much higher cost.

If I look at the Japanese proposal vs a Chinese benchmark, this is what I see:

China
Speed: 350-380km/h
Cost: $27B (1570km x $17M per km)
Construction: 4-6years

Japan
Speed: 300km/h
Cost: $56B (1570km x $36M per km)
Construction: 10?-30years (depending on the section)

If Vietnam really want to build a high speed railway , then they could save $29B (31% of the Vietnamese economy) by going elsewhere

If Vietnam really want to build a high speed railway , then they could save $29B (31% of the Vietnamese economy) by going elsewhere
Of course Chinese bid would be a lot cheaper, but many Vietnamese look at China's bids with a deep suspicion because of historical ill-relationship between two. Vietnamese haven't forgotten about Chinese surprise takeover of Paracel Islands and the Sino-Vietnamese War of 1979. The relationship between Vietnam and China can best be described as the relationship between Argentina and UK, or India and China. Accepting Chinese bid would be a tough sell with National Assembly because Vietnam's fear of increasing Chinese influences.

So Chinese have to think about their unpopularity in Vietnam and how to overcome this when making the bid, and not just about low price.

If I look at the Japanese proposal vs a Chinese benchmark, this is what I see:

China
Speed: 350-380km/h
Cost: $27B (1570km x $17M per km)
Construction: 4-6years

Japan
Speed: 300km/h
Cost: $56B (1570km x $36M per km)
Construction: 10?-30years (depending on the section)

If Vietnam really want to build a high speed railway , then they could save $29B (31% of the Vietnamese economy) by going elsewhere

The above PRC estimate is artificial since it does not reflect the actual RMB exchange rate which will rise against the USD since PRC have lifted the peg at the beginning of this week.

The above PRC estimate is artificial since it does not reflect the actual RMB exchange rate which will rise against the USD since PRC have lifted the peg at the beginning of this week.
It's not going to rise by 100% in 5 years. More likely, it will return to the steady 4-5% increase per year it was trending prior to the financial crisis.

It's not going to rise by 100% in 5 years. More likely, it will return to the steady 4-5% increase per year it was trending prior to the financial crisis.

Never said it will but I believe it will rise around 20%~30% in the next 5 years against the dollar to reflect the actual trade relationship between the US and PRC.
There is also the Euro crisis which will also up heave the RMB since the RMB was utilizing a basket trade currency.

The above PRC estimate is artificial since it does not reflect the actual RMB exchange rate which will rise against the USD since PRC have lifted the peg at the beginning of this week.
Chinese bid in Vietnam isn't strictly commercially oriented; rather this is a form of foreign aid designed to increase China's influences over Vietnam, so profit/loss balance sheet doesn't matter.

After Chinese version of high speed rail is constructed, Vietnam would be in $27 billion debt to China; then it becomes easier for China to pull strings in Vietnam. Not to mention that a linkage of Vietnamese rail to China would enable a mass influx of Chinese into Vietnam.

56 B $ is such a big price tab that even a fully developed country would hesitate to take.
Considering that Vietnamese (nominal) GDP is ~ 90 B$/year, it sounds way unrealistic. Vietnam could spend just a fraction of 56B$ in more basic infrastructures and reap greater benefits than a high speed rail.

Why don't they just upgrade the existing metre gauge network, with modern signalling, grade separation, and electrification where it is justified, to allow 130kmh (or even 160kmh as in Malaysia) running. This will cost less presumably, and will benefit the working classes more as they would still be able to afford to ride it. Less glamorous than standard gauge bullet trains, but sometimes you gotta learn to walk before you run...

Why don't they just upgrade the existing metre gauge network, with modern signalling, grade separation, and electrification where it is justified, to allow 130kmh (or even 160kmh as in Malaysia) running. This will cost less presumably, and will benefit the working classes more as they would still be able to afford to ride it. Less glamorous than standard gauge bullet trains, but sometimes you gotta learn to walk before you run...
Upgrading meter gauge railway would temporarily put them out of service. Something Vietnam could ill afford.

Upgrading meter gauge railway would temporarily put them out of service. Something Vietnam could ill afford.

Nonsense, ever heard of shoofly tracks?

Nonsense, ever heard of shoofly tracks?
Temporary tracks still cost land, time and money. And vietnam doesn't have money.

That money would be better spent on laying a totally new standard gauge track.

Temporary tracks still cost land, time and money. And vietnam doesn't have money.

That money would be better spent on laying a totally new standard gauge track.

ergo: Upgrading meter gauge to standard gauge railway would temporarily put them out of service. Something Vietnam could ill afford.

Not to mention, existing metre gauge rolling stock and locomotives would have to be either re-bogied or scrapped, something Vietnam could ill afford...

In the case of Malaysia, when the Rawang-Ipoh electrified double tracking project was being implemented, the new double track line is built just right next to the original single track line.

There were reduction of trips and during the construction and whenever there is passing train, the construction work has to stop temporarily until the train passes. In whole, the railway operation still continues during the project implementation period only with some cuts on trips.

There was debate on whether to build it as standard gauge or metre gauge few years ago on Malaysian newspaper, but at the end, Malaysia concentrated on metre gauge and improving what they have.

You need to have a standard gauge in all of SEA so as to interconnect all your networks.

Vietnam moving to revive Shinkansen plan

The government of Vietnam plans to revise and resubmit a proposal rejected by its national assembly, or parliament, to build a Shinkansen-style high-speed railway system, a visiting senior official said Wednesday.

Dinh La Thang, chairman of the Vietnam National Oil and Gas Group, told Satoshi Arai, Japan's national policy minister, that the Vietnamese government hopes to adopt the Shinkansen technology and have it operating by 2025.

Thang, a member of the Central Communist Party Committee, met Arai at the Cabinet Office.Vietnam's National Assembly on Saturday voted down the proposal to build a 1,500-kilometer high-speed railway system between Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City, citing the $55.8 billion (5.05 trillion yen) cost as too high.

Thang said the assembly had asked the government to review the proposal and the government is doing so.

http://www.asahi.com/english/TKY201006240481.html

You need to have a standard gauge in all of SEA so as to interconnect all your networks.

Not necessarily. Vietnam and Cambodia have the same 1000 mm gauge, but no rail connection across the lower Mekong between Phnom Penh and Ho Chi Minh. China and Vietnam have a rail line between Nanning and Hanoi, but different gauges.

Yes, Vietnam is poorer than Guangdong. But so are Guangxi, Guizhou, Yunnan.

i thought thailand and malaysia also run on the same 1000mm gauge.

i thought thailand and malaysia also run on the same 1000mm gauge.

Yes, they do. But while Cambodia is connected to Thailand, she is not connected to Vietnam.

^^
hmm,i think i remember that a few country had pledge to donate track to cambodia

i had read a news report that malaysia is donating it old track from last EDT upgrade (rawang-ipoh) to cambodia,but i'm not sure how many track were given.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/dataimages/201006/original/images1990032_1.jpg

Mono or double rail debate in Hanoi speeds up

VietNamNet Bridge – Hanoi needs an overhead tramcar route to reduce gridlock, but transportation experts should weigh the benefits of a mono or double rail.

Vietnam Construction Import-Export Corporation (Vinaconex) has recently submitted a plan to build a monorail route in Hanoi to deal with traffic jams in the western areas. The route will run overhead from Hoang Hoa Tham to Van Cao – Nguyen Chi Thanh – Tran Duy Hung to the end of Lang-Hoa Lac highway, totaling 38 kilometers.

According to Vinaconex, the project developer, a monorail is appropriate for Hanoi because it doesn’t require large space. The train can run through buildings by overpasses or underground. Ticket prices will be low, affordable for government employees, students, and others.

The monorail was chosen because one kilometer is estimated at only $8 million of investment capital compared to $40-50 million for one kilometer of normal railway. Transportation analysts stress, however, that the monorail capacity is lower than a normal rail system.

Phan Le Binh, a senior expert from the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA), noted that , in Japan, mono and double rails are very popular. Monorail trains can carry 50-60 passengers per carriage, compared to 100 for double rail trains. He maintained that the monorail’s advantage is low investment capital and suitability for short distances and small cities where traffic circulation is small.

Dao Ngoc Nghiem, Hanoi Architecture Planning Association Vice-Chair, has supported the monorail project. He noted that Hoa Lac will become a satellite town with 600,000 people, so a monorail route from the center city is necessary. An overhead monorail is a good choice for a distance of 40km through a populated area.

Khuat Viet Hung, deputy director of the Institute for Traffic Planning and Management, has worried that it would be a waste to build an overhead monorail route from Hoa Lac because Hanoi plans a rapid bus route on this road. He speculated that passengers may choose the rapid bus rather than the monorail because of lower fares. In addition, the capacity of the rapid buses will be higher than monorail.

According to Hung, the city should build an overhead double rail route because they can run faster and can carry more passengers.

Nguyen Manh Hung, Vietnam Car Transport Association Chair, welcomed the idea of constructing overhead rail routes, but he stressed that Hanoi should carefully research the number of passengers to make appropriate investment plans.

Vietnam still considering high speed rail solutions

source (http://www.dtinews.vn/news/news/vietnam/vietnam-still-considering-high-speed-rail-solutions_4507.html)

The Ministry of Transport will continue researching the possibilities of a bullet train from Ho Chi Minh City to Hanoi.

“The government has approved the construction techniques submitted by the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA) and asked the Ministry of Transport to make further research and detailed plans for the Hanoi-Ho Chi Minh City high-speed rail project to submit to the National Assembly,” confirmed minister of transport Ho Nghia Dung.

Dung explained at the government’s press conference on August 31 that the National Assembly had voted down the project in June so the government hasn’t made any conclusions regarding investment.

The National Assembly rejected the 56-billion-dollar project and suggested that shorter high-speed rails connecting some regions and provinces would be more suitable for the economic potential of Vietnam.

Following this suggestion, the government has approved employing technical support from Japan’s official development assistance (ODA) on the shorter rails connecting Hanoi-Vinh, Ho Chi Minh City- Nha Trang, and Hanoi- Noi Bai Airport. The Hanoi- Noi Bai Airport project will get more priority in order to enhance the capacity of this international airport.

“Seeing the potential of a high-speed rail, the government asked the Ministry of Transport to study and provide detailed plans for this project to answer the National Assembly’s inquiry,” Dung said.


Japan, which is the biggest provider of ODA to Vietnam, especially in regards to infrastructure projects, including some important transportation projects like Bai Chay Bridge, Can Tho Bridge, Hai Van Pass Tunnel, is now also cooperating in the rail project.

“The government needs more discussion on this project. This project will totally use non-refundable Japan’s ODA, with no binding terms regarding investment. The selection of technology and investor for this project has not been made,” shared Dung.


He added that, although the site clearance for the Hanoi - Ho Chi Minh City high-speed rail project now seems unfeasible, a new rail to meet the increasing transportation demand still forces the government to study and make alternate plans available to carry out the project.

Addressing when this plan will be submitted to the National Assembly, Minister Ho Nghia Dung revealed, “It may take us 3-4 years to make a detailed plan because it must contain information on landmarks, long-term programming within 40-50 years, technology, economic efficiency or effect on the environment and many other details. After that, it will all depend on the National Assembly’s decision.”

What a pity! It is a big project but finally the Government decided to skip it!
Vietnam Railways (http://www.vietnam-railways.com) should be developed in Vietnam soon.