Wilshire| Development News [Archive] - Page 2

milquetoast

August 19th, 2008, 11:06 AM

At the Carlyle on Wilshire, pets are OK, but not paparazzi
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/41684932.jpg
Elad Properties
A computer-generated rendering shows the planned lobby of the Carlyle luxury condominium tower, which is still under construction in Westwood.
The 24-story condo complex, set to open in 2009, is being billed as paparazzi-proof. Tabloid shutterbugs say high hedges, private elevators and security won't matter -- they'll just wait outside.
By Harriet Ryan and Joanna Lin, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
August 19, 2008
Forget infinity pools and wine cellars. The developers of a luxury condominium high-rise in Westwood have come up with a new way to entice wealthy buyers: paparazzi-proof living.

The Carlyle Residences, a 24-story tower under construction on Wilshire Boulevard, bills itself as the first building specifically designed to thwart prying lenses.

Promotional materials for the property, which is set to open next year, promise round-the-clock patrols by "Israeli-trained VIP" security guards, private elevators that open directly into apartments, and high hedges that shield the swimming pool and yoga lawn from shutterbugs. Even the shape of the tower, a crescent, is advertised as an anti-paparazzi device. According to the developer, it minimizes views into the Carlyle from neighboring buildings.

Thomas Elliott, chief operating officer for Elad Properties West, said the company was responding to complaints from celebrities and elected leaders about aggressive tabloid photographers.

"We are reaching out to the Hollywood community to do what we can to ensure their safety and security," he said.

It remains unclear whether any of the Carlyle's so-called anti-paparazzi measures will actually work -- or whether their pitch is drawing any of Hollywood's elite. Elliott declined to say whether any celebrities had endorsed the project with their checkbooks. (Prices range from $2.9 million to $20 million for one of four units on the penthouse floor.)

"We are very discreet when it comes to our buyers," he said, adding, "I can say there are some high-profile people looking at the building."

He said the developer relied on advice from agencies that specialize in providing security for celebrities while mapping out the building. Among those features designed to ensure privacy is the confidentiality agreement -- a Hollywood staple. The Carlyle will require them from everyone who works in the building.

Among those who make their living by chasing the rich and famous, news of the building's paparazzi-free design brought either laughter or eye-rolling.

"A waste of advertising," said Giles Harrison, a paparazzo who has worked in Los Angeles for 14 years. "Paparazzi don't go into buildings to get shots. They wait until people go out and about. I have yet to see a paparazzi shot that came from the inside of a private residence."

Christian Zimmerman, a tabloid photographer for five years, said colleagues would simply park on the street and wait until celebrities left the building.

"Then they will follow their cars and it will be like any other day in the field," he said.

The Carlyle isn't the only building to protect against paparazzi.

The Sierra Towers, on the western end of the Sunset Strip, has long been housing celebrities and high-powered names.

Paparazzi stake out the building "at all times," says Russ Filice, a Sotheby's Realtor who sells the tower's units and is also a resident.

"They always try [to get in], but they have not been successful," he said. "There's too many barriers."

The building has several layers of security stationed inside and out to shield its 136 residents from camera-wielding onlookers, he said.

With garages that lead straight to private elevators for residences, lobby elevators that shut down for unwelcome guests and many dwellers hiring additional security detail for their apartments alone, breaching the tower just doesn't happen, Filice says.

Although arguably "paparazzi-proof" as well, Sierra Towers won't market the building as such, Filice said.

"I think it's an interesting slant, an interesting marketing concept," he said. "If we wanted to use the word 'paparazzi-proof' we certainly could. . . . But it's not something we'd even let them know, that we're that secure. Let them find out on their own."
harriet.ryan@latimes.com

joanna.lin@latimes.com LATimes

milquetoast

August 19th, 2008, 11:24 AM

Historic Church Considers Mixed-Use Project http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/1345476069_2a807c180a.jpg bhampton1963 on Flickr By Bob Howard
LOS ANGELES-Historic Wilshire Christian Church has retained Burbank, CA-based BTG Advisors as real estate consultants for the potential construction of a mid- to high-rise mixed-use project that could include a multipurpose assisted living or senior housing facility, new offices, a chapel, educational space and production studio space for a digital broadcast studio for radio and television ministry. The Disciples of Christ church, which was the first of the 'tall steeple' churches on Wilshire Boulevard, is considering the development to replace an underutilized three-story school building on a quarter-acre parcel located behind Wilshire Christian.

The property, which is near the Wilshire/Normandie Station of the Metro Red Line, is adjacent to the Wilshire Christian Manor, a 14-story low-income housing facility that is owned by the church and controlled by the US Department of Housing and Urban Development. According to BTG principal Richard Gentilucci, in addition to complementing the adjacent uses, the new facility would likely include a new state-of-the-art digital broadcast facility for the radio and television ministry of the Rev. Donald B. Colhour, a former ABC Television executive of more than 20 years, whose broadcast ministry is currently transmitted over the internet and podcasted.
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/los_richard_gentilucci.jpg
Gentilucci, who managed the development of the $90 million Manhattan Beach Studios, says that BTG Advisors will represent the church through its RFQ and RFP process and selection of a joint venture development partner. BTG Advisors will also provide strategic and financial planning through the completion of the project.
GlobeSt.com

milquetoast

September 25th, 2008, 10:52 AM

Developers have high hopes for vertical mall in L.A.
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/42551133.jpg
Christina House / For The Times
Los Angeles developers Jerry Snyder, left, and partner Michael Wise are trying to build Southern California’s first vertical shopping center despite conventional wisdom that such a project would not succeed.
The seven-story project by developers Jerry Snyder and Michael Wise would open in 2011 on a Wilshire Boulevard site.
By Roger Vincent, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 25, 2008
Imagine Hong Kong, or Seoul, or the crowded L.A. envisioned in futuristic movies.

Languid sprawl has been replaced by density all around: High-rise apartments have supplanted bungalows, and shopping centers go up instead of out.

Not here, you say?

As urban planners push for ever-increasing density in Southern California, one of the region's biggest real estate developers is preparing to build Southern California's first vertical shopping mall on Wilshire Boulevard.

Shopping centers that rise several stories are a staple in Asia, Europe and a few tightly packed American cities but have been shunned in the past by builders in land-rich Southern California. Customers here are accustomed to malls that spread horizontally and have balked at traveling up and down more than a floor or two for casual shopping.

Now, Los Angeles developer Jerry Snyder and his J.H. Snyder Co. partner Michael Wise are planning to break with local tradition and put up a seven-story mall near the Red Line station at Wilshire Boulevard and Vermont Avenue that would house perhaps 100 stores under rooftop restaurants and a cinema complex in 300,000 square feet.

Urban planners are ready to embrace the idea, saying it's all part of the verticalization of L.A. -- the push from city officials and others toward building high-rise condominium and apartment buildings near public transit lines, along with equally dense job centers and shopping districts.

"The days of being able to continuously expand outward are gone," said Anastasia Loukaitou-Sideris, a professor in the UCLA Department of Urban Planning. Rising suburban land costs, traffic congestion and the price of gasoline are discouraging further sprawl, she said.

Already, Snyder has won the conditional support of Herb Wesson, the neighborhood's city councilman. The city's top urban planner, Gail Goldberg, said L.A. was ready for a vertical mall.

Snyder and his architect, Boston-based Howard Elkus, say they hope to create a city landmark on par with the former Bullocks Wilshire department store or the Wiltern Theater -- a new architectural attraction near those classics that would attract tourists as well as local shoppers.

But can a high-rise mall succeed in L.A.?

The conventional wisdom says no. Several local real estate professionals expressed surprise that anyone would even try it, saying that people here are used to going to a big, rambling mall with a huge surface parking lot and looking for a parking space close to the store that they want to visit first.

But Snyder says he can do it.

"I'm a mad optimist," said Snyder, who bought the property at the southeast corner of the intersection after another developer scratched plans for a large-scale condominium project there as the housing market cooled.

Well aware of the proclivities of local shoppers, he plans to accommodate patrons' desire to leave their cars near where they plan to shop by putting parking on every floor but the top.

The 78-year-old is one of the region's most active developers. He has been building major commercial projects in Southern California for decades and has about $1 billion worth of development under construction or in planning stages, including the $300-million NoHo Commons apartment, retail and office complex in North Hollywood. Snyder also built the $51-million outdoor mall called the River in Rancho Mirage and the $170-million Bella Terra shopping center in Huntington Beach.

He hopes to begin work on the $200-million vertical mall next year and finish by 2011. Financing is lined up, Snyder said, although there remains a chance that the current financial market turmoil could affect his lenders.

"L.A. hasn't got this kind of venue, but why shouldn't it?" said Elkus, whose Boston-based firm designed the five-story retail galleria at Time Warner Center in New York and Pacific Place in downtown Seattle, also a five-level mall, along with the Grove in Los Angeles and Americana at Brand in Glendale.

Los Angeles has filled out to the point where it needs to grow up instead of out, he said, and a site next to a subway station on the city's best-known boulevard is the kind of place to do it.

The neighborhood itself is already very dense -- about 1.3 million people live within five miles. And with its large Korean American population, Snyder hopes there will be a built-in comfort level with the idea of a seven-story mall.Crucial to its success would be a design that kept shoppers flowing easily from floor to floor. One of L.A.'s tallest malls, the four-story Hollywood & Highland Center, was widely shunned when it opened in 2001 in part because people found it difficult to navigate. The developer sold it at a loss of hundreds of millions of dollars, and the new owners have labored to make it easier to get around inside.

Elkus' design calls for a dramatic interior atrium under a large skylight with a seven-story waterfall, glass rails and glass bridges to enhance a sense of openness and make stores easily visible. He hopes the attraction of open-air rooftop dining will encourage people to keep heading up. "In Seattle we couldn't use the roof," Elkus said. "Southern California is a garden world, and we want to celebrate that."

Although the mall is in the Koreatown area, it will not be Korean-themed. And unlike the Grove, which is closed to surrounding streets, this mall would include shops that open directly to the sidewalk in an effort to encourage foot traffic in the vicinity.

Such elements would be in keeping with the city's plans for the area -- and key to winning approval from local officials.

"Vertical malls are absolutely great as long as they activate the street and don't deaden it," Planning Director Goldberg said. "We're looking for designs that support street activity."

The Planning Department will also evaluate whether to allow Snyder to drop plans for the housing that the previous developer was going to put up on the site, Goldberg said.

But some transit-oriented developments have suffered because there has been only housing and no shops or job centers nearby, and Goldberg allowed that retail might be important for the site.

"We want to create lively spaces around transit stations," she said. "You need a good mix of uses to do that."

Councilman Wesson, who represents Wilshire Center, said he tentatively supported the project. "There are going to be hiccups and hurdles" to overcome in the planning process, but "conceptually I love the idea," he said. "Snyder does good work."

Vertical centers are nevertheless a gamble and need to be carefully planned to pay off, experts said.

It's more costly to build tall structures than low ones, so owners need to risk more money to get started and then charge stores higher-than-average rents to recoup construction costs, said retail analyst Greg Gotthardt of Alvarez & Marsal.

The stores, in turn, need customers to be able to find them, Gotthardt said, and L.A. shoppers aren't used to going high and low to match a new sweater and necklace. "It's certainly going to take a change in shopping habits and the right tenant mix," Gotthardt said. "The concept is untested in this market."

Longtime shopping center developer Randy Brant of Macerich Co. said that after hearing about the success of vertical malls in Asia he visited examples in Singapore, Bangkok and Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, in recent years but wasn't won over. "When I got above the third floor, I discovered high vacancy rates and non-retail uses like dentists' offices," said Brant, whose company owns several regional malls including Westside Pavilion in Los Angeles and Santa Monica Place. "It was obvious that traffic was off and the landlords were getting lower rents" upstairs.

Then again, Brant said, other developers laughed when his then-partners opened the Beverly Center in Los Angeles in 1982 because it was perched on top of a parking garage and critics thought customers wouldn't travel up to shop.

They did, of course, and still do.

"Everyone thought it was crazy," Brant said, "but that was because we only knew how to build horizontally in cornfields."

roger.vincent@latimes.com

CITYofDREAMS

September 25th, 2008, 06:20 PM

Great article but wouldn't Beverly Center built in 1982 fit the description of vertical shopping center as well????

Joey313

September 26th, 2008, 12:01 AM

more malls.. I bet something like this wont be hard to get off the ground just because its a mall..

Westsidelife

September 26th, 2008, 01:22 AM

http://la.racked.com/uploads/2008_9_WilshireVermont2.jpg

Wilshire and Vermont Mall Rendered: Where Is the Vertical? (http://la.curbed.com/archives/2008/09/rendered_wilshire_and_vermont_vertical_mall.php#more)

By Dakota
September 25, 2008

This morning, the LA Times hyped the vertical portion of the mall in
its story about that new mall (http://la.curbed.com/archives/2008/09/mall_trumps_housing_at_vermontwilshire.php) coming to Vermont and Wilshire, but uhm, now it's not looking that ground-breaking. Nor does one feel like they are in Asia, home of those futuristic vertical malls. Via Racked LA (http://la.racked.com/archives/2008/09/25/malled_whoapotential_sevenstory_vertical_mall_at_wilshire_and_vermont.php), two renderings of the planned 7-story mall that'll go up on the site of that planned--and now canceled--mixed-use housing project. And this $200 million project still could have housing, according to the Times, which notes the development will be done by 2011. In the close-ups of the renderings, the store names are variations of Prada and Gucci, so we're not betting a Target is headed here.

Malled: Whoa—Potential Seven-Story Vertical Mall at Wilshire and Vermont! (http://la.racked.com/archives/2008/09/25/malled_whoapotential_sevenstory_vertical_mall_at_wilshire_and_vermont.php) [Racked LA]

http://la.racked.com/uploads/2008_9_WilshireVermont.jpg

mikey001

September 26th, 2008, 04:48 AM

Several local real estate professionals expressed surprise that anyone would even try it, saying that people here are used to going to a big, rambling mall with a huge surface parking lot and looking for a parking space close to the store that they want to visit first.

I think this is a better description of Orange County rather than present day LA. How many malls are there in the city of Los Angeles that have huge surface parking lots? The only one I can think of is Westfield Topanga and I don't consider that to be truly in the city of LA anyway.

FROM LOS ANGELES

September 26th, 2008, 05:14 AM

In LA county there are more than a few of these types of malls.

San Marino Guy

September 26th, 2008, 07:44 AM

That's an amazing waterfall! Wish I had that in my backyard.

Imperfect Ending

September 26th, 2008, 08:17 AM

Scary walkway

xXFallenXx

September 26th, 2008, 08:22 AM

Very cool walkways. With a glass floor on those, you get a thrilling experience and a fun shopping experience in one!

Imperfect Ending

September 26th, 2008, 08:29 AM

I'd piss my pants...
Then go to Gucci and get new one!

rst22

September 28th, 2008, 05:03 AM

rst22

September 28th, 2008, 11:57 PM

here are some updates on miricle mile developments.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=142650&page=22

it is really ashame they are using prime realestate to be building low rise condos. if they can get 20 story highrises on wilshire btw westwood and beverly hills why can't they in LA's equivelent on Mid Town Manhatan.

:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

dweebo2220

September 29th, 2008, 10:20 AM

rst22

September 29th, 2008, 07:20 PM

Because those 20 story highrises are confined to one street and surrounded by one story houses. In miracle mile the overall pop. density is a lot higher, so people there fight against new developments adding more density.

Also, miracle mile as midtown? I don't think LA has anything that can be compared to midtown manhattan. Century City is the most easily comparable, if you consider it midtown in the 1920s or something, since it's the 'alternative downtown' just like midtown manhattan was. (Midtown obviously ended up overtaking downtown..).

:ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno:

NOTHING in LA compares to NY. I would compare Century City to Columbus Circle in Uptown and the Wilshire Corridor to the Upper East Side or Possibly Beverly Hills. I know there are a lot of nimby's in Hancock Park and MM but if they can get towers like that on the Wilshire Corridor they should in Mirricle Mile and Also near Hancock Park on Wilshire. It is NOT tol late. they just waisted to prime spots but there are still other possiblilties such as the parking lot and low rises across the street from LACMA.

dweebo2220

September 30th, 2008, 08:31 PM

What's with the shaky faces? Makes no sense...
Anyway I just mean those towers on wilshire btw BH and Westwood are suburban towers and can't really be applied to other parts of LA.

soup or man

October 1st, 2008, 01:38 AM

Very cool walkways. With a glass floor on those, you get a thrilling experience and a fun shopping experience in one!

By thrilling you mean gross. You know how many fat chicks romp the mall in dresses?

FROM LOS ANGELES

October 1st, 2008, 01:43 AM

Yeah but for every ten of them there is bound to be one hot one.
I'm very exited about hearing about this development, it's nice having a break from Italian named residential low rises.

rst22

October 19th, 2008, 09:57 PM

I took a walk a few nights ago down Wislhire from Fairfax to La Brea and I noticed there are still a lot of potential even with the two lots being used up. Right now not much is going to happen with the economy but as soon as the metro goes in at La Brea and Fairfax there is going to be a HUGE demand for high density.

dweebo2220

October 20th, 2008, 08:15 AM

yep, just as soon as that metro goes in..

Imperfect Ending

October 20th, 2008, 09:32 AM

is it even going to?

unmentioned

October 20th, 2008, 08:51 PM

^^Question of the Century.

Imperfect Ending

October 21st, 2008, 03:53 AM

Maybe after a hella long time and when those damn West LA smugfaces stop resisting

omgitsroy326

October 30th, 2008, 09:44 PM

Beverly and Wilshirehttp://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v373/161/58/3310458/n3310458_40339734_597.jpg
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v373/161/58/3310458/n3310458_40339735_882.jpg

vidgms

October 31st, 2008, 08:17 AM

What hole is this for? Please tell me its awesome, whatever it is!

omgitsroy326

October 31st, 2008, 05:04 PM

WMA building ...i put up a rendering if you go one or two page back... there's more info if you click a page back... but the hole = parking = )

DinoVabec

October 31st, 2008, 11:42 PM

Wow...I haven't check this thread for a while, and as I can see, there are some really beautiful projects...Nice...:)

rst22

November 1st, 2008, 03:49 AM

Me likes this...http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/2311989487_484329dca1_o.jpghttp://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/2312799450_c527fa52eb_o.jpg

any updates on that project? that area has a lot of potential. Is it replaceing the Korean Church on the SE corner. Than the Bank could be turned into a highrise as well as the parking lot. The metro building will likely be a metro station.

phattonez

November 1st, 2008, 08:08 AM

It was scaled down . . . a lot.

rst22

November 3rd, 2008, 06:17 AM

It was scaled down . . . a lot.

that sucks. hopefully they will probably cancel it anyway because of the economy and than when the subway gets in in 5-10 years they can build something tall and dense.

dweebo2220

November 3rd, 2008, 06:30 AM

you mean when the subway gets in in 50-100 years thanks to people like your pal Walter Moore.

rst22

November 3rd, 2008, 07:42 AM

you mean when the subway gets in in 50-100 years thanks to people like your pal Walter Moore.

You can't get everything you want from a politician.

klamedia

November 6th, 2008, 12:51 AM

you mean when the subway gets in in 50-100 years thanks to people like your pal Walter Moore.

Measure R passed so it should be there a bit sooner than that.

rst22

November 6th, 2008, 01:32 AM

Measure R passed so it should be there a bit sooner than that.

La Brea will likely be the 1st station to open. though contruction won't start until at least 2010.

mikey001

November 6th, 2008, 06:53 AM

La Brea will likely be the 1st station to open. though contruction won't start until at least 2010.

Honestly, I'd be thrilled if construction were to start that soon.

rst22

November 30th, 2008, 01:02 AM

any updates?

rst22

December 19th, 2008, 11:53 PM

Koreans Bail Out, Put 3670 Wilshire Up For Sale

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2008/12/koreans_bail_out_put_3670_wilshire_up_for_sale.php

So much for the dream of 3670 Wilshire, a shiny green condominium project that was once touted as a forthcoming "landmark tower in Koreatown." At least there's one last new rendering to gaze at. But following some sort of dispute last year between the Korean partners behind the project, and then news that the project was going to be sold, this landmark has now been listed for a mere $40 million. More via the description on Loopnet: "Outstanding development land (2.2 acres) in the heart of Koreatown. Uniqure and rare opportunity for high rise mixed use development (height limit 490 feet) on Wilshire Boulevard. The property is entitled for 378 residential condominiums with 8,000 sf of retail." It's a good bet that the sign for the Emhurst Hotel, another planned Koreatown project, is still gathering dust.

croyboy

December 20th, 2008, 05:51 AM

^^ hopefully a buyer keeps the same idea

rst22

December 27th, 2008, 02:10 AM

ConstructionWatch: Koreatown's MaDang: The Courtyard

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2008/12/constructionwatch_koreatowns_madang_the_courtyard.php

Imperfect Ending

December 31st, 2008, 08:14 AM

December 30, 2008

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3103/3152248551_f1d8394e0a_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/3153084956_c661460d58_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3159/3153085770_f986f15278_b.jpg

( Do we have a thread for this one? )

Imperfect Ending

December 31st, 2008, 08:17 AM

And do we have something for the former Ambassador Hotel?

December 30, 2008

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3261/3153073738_8b53387369_b.jpg

LosAngelesSportsFan

December 31st, 2008, 12:42 PM

3 schools for LAUSD. thanks for the update. i like solair.

Kenny

December 31st, 2008, 06:58 PM

i hate tha fact that soooo many schools are being built in downton instead of buildings, all that "flat" space.

Or maybe I'm just still bitter over the whole Ambassador deal.

Imperfect Ending

December 31st, 2008, 10:08 PM

Wait... They're turning it into a school?!
We have so many schools yet kids still turn into rotten thieves

jessemh431

January 1st, 2009, 12:32 AM

Wait... They're turning it into a school?!
We have so many schools yet kids still turn into rotten thieves
Muahahahaha!!!http://bestsmileys.com/evil/4.gifhttp://bestsmileys.com/evil/3.gif

omgitsroy326

March 5th, 2009, 07:07 AM

it's starting to go uphttp://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs017.snc1/2543_651226898944_3310458_41971206_7626684_n.jpg

milquetoast

March 5th, 2009, 08:59 AM

What's this, Roy?

Imperfect Ending

May 10th, 2009, 11:55 AM

May 7, 2009

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3366/3518219756_110c84495a_b.jpg

Imperfect Ending

May 10th, 2009, 11:55 AM

May 7, 2009

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3315/3517407609_16d5fa3f3c_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3366/3518219756_110c84495a_b.jpg

milquetoast

May 31st, 2009, 08:57 AM

MINE http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%202/3513538320_cb2ce3d5de_o.jpg Solair lacurbed Flickr

San Marino Guy

May 31st, 2009, 09:17 AM

DAMN, that's a great view!

Imperfect Ending

June 24th, 2009, 09:30 AM

June 23, 2009

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3378/3656667348_a71688c31b_b.jpg

dachacon

June 25th, 2009, 03:00 AM

^^ i hate LAUSD for razing the hotel and building this ugly monstrosity

milquetoast

August 23rd, 2009, 10:20 AM

.................. Two worlds blend uneasily in Koreatown
..................Sleek new buildings displace traditional homes and businesses. .................Some think that's great. ............... Others lament the changes. http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%202/sp443-1.jpg ... http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%202/spencerweiner4456-1.jpg Wilshire Vermont Station includes apartment buildings and shops Some fear such developments are robbing the area of its charm
Hyun Soo Kim moved to Koreatown from Seattle eight years ago, hoping to witness the expansion of the Korean community.

He did, but hardly the way he envisioned.

"Every day," the 30-year-old lamented, "there seems to be something going out of business."

As Koreatown becomes more of a destination and glitzy developments take root, longtime residents and shopkeepers say they are being priced out by luxury apartments and retail chains.

There are so many bars, restaurants and karaoke joints that some merchants are slashing prices in a frantic effort to get their share of customers. Some stores are closed up. Others are barely hanging on.

And as the neighborhood evolves, some suggest that the place is beginning to lose the charm and character that made it distinctive. Others, though, see it as a much-needed urban makeover.

For years, the community was a maze of Korean signs plastered on buildings, mom-and-pop shops offering kimchi and bulgogi dishes, bars advertising Hite -- a popular Korean beer -- and Asian-infused boutiques. Increasingly, though, the old shops have given way to Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf, Nine West, Cold Stone Creamery and other familiar names.

As younger residents have moved in, developers have built hipper, sleeker structures, often with retail on the street level and housing above. In some cases, the result is a jarring contrast to the cluttered, ethnic flavor that had been the area's signature.

At the Wilshire Vermont Station, an apartment-retail complex built above the Metro Red Line, tenants and customers are greeted by a futuristic, multicolored entryway, lush palm trees and a mid-rise building with sharp designs. There's a doorman, fitness rooms and Wi-Fi access on the pool deck. The sole reminder of Koreatown is the picture of an empty rice bowl that adorns the entryway.

On Western Avenue, a sprawling complex of Asian-inspired retail and entertainment called MaDang: The Courtyard is taking shape. Farther down the street is Solair, an aqua green high-rise of luxury condos and retail towers above Wilshire Boulevard.

Kim and others may not feel they ended up in the largest Korean community outside of Korea.

Rents at the newer complexes can be more than $3,000 a month, a far cry from the older apartments that go for less than $1,000. More than 30% of Koreatown's population lives below the federal poverty line, and the cost of living in the area is 140% higher than in other major U.S. cities, according to a study done by the Koreatown Immigrant Workers Advocates.

"The gap is just too much," Kim said. "And who's suffering? The middle class. It doesn't help anyone in the end."

While people wearing business attire stride in and out of the new developments, they mingle with tradition denizens of Koreatown: working-class Koreans, some of whom use their homes as day-care centers -- distinguished by brightly colored fences -- and vendors pushing carts with fruit and ice cream treats along the street.

Those living in Koreatown have a variety of opinions about the changes: It's good, it's bad, it's too much, it's not enough.

For Anna Cho, seeing the higher-end developments in the neighborhood is long overdue. Over the last six years she has worked for companies that manage apartments in the Koreatown area, including Wilshire Vermont Station, and she said the addition of more opulent and modern buildings is a sign of the times.

"It's going to be a booming city in the near future," she said.

Cho says Koreatown's proximity to the subway makes the neighborhood a natural attraction. "Transportation is key -- getting around easily. That's the No. 1 thing," the 27-year-old said. Koreatown "is a middle point to getting everywhere."

And although development may continue in the area, it is far from enough, according to one resident.

"It's going to take a long time to clean this place up," said Deborah Bowerbank. "It took years to clean up Hollywood Boulevard."

Bowerbank, 37, said that apart from new mid- and high-rise buildings, Koreatown feels the same as always.

"The same type of people live here. Sure, there is more diversity," she said while taking a break from checking on an apartment building she manages. "People get the idea that it's overpopulated. But that's not true."

Kim said his biggest concern isn't how many people have moved into the neighborhood but what the new developments catering to them will do for local businesses.

He is the founder of www.ktownlove.com an Internet guide to the neighborhood. He said he believes there are too many area businesses. . HYUN SOO KIM................................
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%202/sp223.jpg
"We have over 700 restaurants in a 2 1/2 -mile radius. Fifty of them are all-you-can-eat restaurants. That's not a good culture," Kim said. "Korean people cut down their prices for people to be able to afford it. But how can they make a living?"

Kevin Kwon, an owner of Guimok, a Korean barbecue restaurant, said that he's been steadily losing customers because of job losses and that it hasn't helped that his competition has more than doubled.

"It's like survival of the cheapest," he said.

gerrick.kennedy@latimes.com photo Spencer Weiner Gerrick D. Kennedy LATIMES

pesto

August 26th, 2009, 08:07 PM

The school district building replacing the Ambassador has some small redeeming value. By being set back so far, it allows views from Wilshire of several of the old-style tower-and-turret and beaux arts buildings on 7th and 8th. New construction in that area would also show and allow a view of two dimensional development (rather than the linearity that most of Wilshire conveys). Something like this also occurs in the area around MacArthur and Lafayette Parks, where you can get views of medium rises several blocks away. Reminiscent of older medium-sized US cities: old buildings, open space.

The Ktown story is the natural result of change, some of it economic, some ethnic, some generational. It's just the human condition in a dynamic envirornment. The good news is that the change is for the better as far as most people are concerned. Educated young people are not likely to support mom and pop like their parents did but mean money is coming into town.

VZN

November 21st, 2009, 02:45 AM

I really don't know where to put this, but I suppose since MacArthur Park falls along Wilshire Blvd., I'll put it here. From Curbed L.A.:

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2009/11/macarthur_park_gentrification_watch_westlake_theatre_plan_moves_forward.php

http://la.curbed.com/uploads/2009.11.westlakereno.jpg

We don't know who they're kidding with that East Coast-looking rendering, but the Community Redevelopment Agency sent out a press release this afternoon noting that yesterday the agency approved a plan to began negotiating with developer to Millennium Westlake, LLC, to rehabilitate the Westlake Theatre. Via the release: "Millennium will have up to 15 months to come up with a plan to convert the 1926 theater – currently used as a swap meet – into a multi-use entertainment venue for theater, film, music and community and social events. The project would also include creation of 49 units of affordable housing with a 300-space parking garage." Plans to refurbish the theater, part of the larger Westlake Recovery Redevelopment Project, were first talked about way back in February 2008.

klamedia

November 21st, 2009, 06:18 PM

300 spaces of parking next to a subway stop! I'm glad to hear about this latest development, I believe Mac Arthur Park area is a jewel and once redeveloped will be one of the more desirable areas to live and visit in the city.

milquetoast

November 23rd, 2009, 09:27 AM

We really need to get the "living dead" out of there because they scare the little kids, the Moms and Pops, and some cops- but mostly because they walk so damn much looking to buy or sell they tear up the grass. You saw fucking grass in that older picture plus some nice pines,.......... should get back to that.

milquetoast

November 23rd, 2009, 11:02 AM

MACARTHUR PARK THE PARK, NOT THE SONG . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%202/bigorangelandmarks887.jpg BIGORANGELANDMARKS . 1892 . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%202/FloydBBariscale1.jpg USC . 1908 . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%202/usc33.jpg USC . 1940s . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%202/yesterdaylacom5757.jpg YESTERDAYLA . SEPTEMBER 2009 http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%202/6a00d8341cb90f53ef0120a5693cc9970b.jpg . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%202/viewfromaloft556.jpg VIEWFROMALOFT

saiholmes

November 24th, 2009, 09:09 AM

From east to west, steel rails pull L.A. together
Building a web of rail lines will make the Eastside and Westside more accessible and our vast metropolis smaller.
Hector Tobar
The Los Angeles Times
November 24, 2009

You may not feel it yet, but one day you will.

Los Angeles is shrinking.

So much so that one day it will be possible to speed without the use of a car from Westwood to East L.A. for a squash blossom quesadilla fix at noon -- and still make it back to the Westside for a 2 p.m. meeting.

That day's still far off. But it got a little closer this month, thanks to the opening of the first Metro stations on the east side of the L.A. River.

Until recently, getting to an Eastside community like Boyle Heights without driving required Zen-like patience. You had to take a jostling ride on one of the three bus lines that run through the neighborhood's congested, narrow thoroughfares.

Nathan Baird, 30, a graduate student and urban explorer from Pasadena, got to know those buses well.

"They were always crowded and moved really slow," he told me. One night, he and his girlfriend waited for one for two hours on a Boyle Heights street corner.

No longer. Boyle Heights is now served by a 21st-century subway.

Half a century after the city tore up the last of the Pacific Electric Railway's Red Car lines, you can glide on steel to East L.A. once again.

I decided to celebrate this landmark of L.A. transportation history with a historic ride of my own -- a solo crossing of the city aided only by public transit and my weary, middle-aged feet.

I left Westwood Village late on a weekday afternoon heading for Boyle Heights and a popular sidewalk eatery, where I would meet up with Baird.

It was a journey across the many geographic and social divides that separate our East from our West, through the L.A. that was and the L.A. that will be.

Half of this trip took place on bus and half on rail. Guess which was faster?

I jumped on a so-called Metro Rapid bus at the corner of Westwood and Wilshire boulevards, and squeezed into a seat next to a kindly transient who was chewing on a hot dog. He offered me some of his chips.

"No thanks," I said, with an eager smile. "I'm going to East L.A. for dinner!"

The Metro Rapid bus that I was on was actually two buses, the halves connected by a sort of bellows like an accordion. The ride over Wilshire was surprisingly bumpy. And slow, especially as we passed Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills.

Outside the bus windows, I saw several exquisite examples of architecture from L.A.'s glory days, including the old May Co. and Saks Fifth Avenue department stores.

As we rolled though the Miracle Mile, I felt momentarily transported to the 1950s and '60s, that era when L.A. embraced gasoline-powered chariots as the solution to its growing transportation needs. The last of the Red Cars stopped running in 1958, and pretty soon not even the widest freeways could accommodate the surging traffic.

My bus passed the Los Angeles County Museum of Art and its garden filled with bronze Rodin sculptures. Finally, we arrived at Western Avenue, and I checked the time -- it had taken me 40 minutes to travel eight miles.

As I scrambled onto the sidewalk, past the jade-colored tower of the Wiltern Theater, I remembered visiting a dentist's office there in the early 1970s. About the same time, L.A. voters rejected an initiative for a 1-cent sales tax to fund mass transit.

Now, three decades later, I was rushing into an actual subway station, where I hopped onto the Purple Line for a smooth ride under the city. At Union Station, I switched to the Gold Line, gliding on rails high above the bumper-to-bumper 101 Freeway. Seated by a window, I watched the sky turn orange behind the Civic Center.

When I arrived at the Mariachi Plaza station, I found three mariachis sitting on a bench outside. I had completed the six-mile rail portion of my journey in just 23 minutes.

In all, including some walking and waiting, my crosstown jaunt had taken 1 hour and 12 minutes. If and when the Subway to the Sea is ever built, the same trip should take about 40 minutes, according to MTA planners.

I walked quickly past Mariachi Plaza's old concrete gazebo, which would fit right into any rural Mexican town. Soon I was standing with Baird on a stretch of sidewalk occupied by Salvador Ortega and members of his extended family. The Ortegas work over a portable stove and steaming pots filled with sauces.

Ortega's been running his Antojitos Carmen food business at various Boyle Heights street corners for nearly two decades.

"With this food," Ortega told me, "I raised my family."

Until recently, they were located along with many other vendors at what came to be known as the Breed Street Food Fair, an informal market that was a favorite of food critic Jonathan Gold. Then, about the same time the nearby subway opened, police cleared the illegal vendors out.

"It got too popular," Ortega said.

Antojitos Carmen was forced to move to another location, though Baird and other loyal customers have been able to follow them to their new digs via Twitter.

"They cater to the tastes of native people and not to American tastes," said Baird, who's also a self-described foodie.

Ortega offered us a squash-blossom quesadilla and also pambazos and tacos de huitlacoche (corn-fungus tacos). As I bit into these exotic and quintessentially Mexican dishes I thought: I sure am far from Westwood now.

Baird lives in Pasadena but routinely takes public transit to Boyle Heights, and not just for the Mexican food. There's a legendary sushi joint near the Soto Street station and challah for sale in some local markets.

"The whole world is here," he told me.

It will cost a few billion dollars more to extend the subway to the ocean. But doing so will make our sprawling city smaller. Like the transcontinental railroad, it's a grand project that will unite a diverse people. Working people will get to their jobs faster, and you won't have to be an urban adventurer like Baird to explore new corners of the city.

Keep tunneling. Pour the concrete and lay the rails. I like gliding through my city on steel. Because you never know what you'll find at the next station.

VZN

November 28th, 2009, 01:28 AM

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-culture-clash28-2009nov28,0,3812776.story

Culture Clash is proposed to help spur a theater's revival

By Reed Johnson
November 28, 2009

A historic MacArthur Park theater could become the permanent new home of the performance trio Culture Clash under an ambitious city plan to bring more cultural amenities to the heavily Latino urban neighborhood.

Under a proposal spearheaded by the Community Redevelopment Agency of the city of Los Angeles (CRA/LA), the Westlake Theatre, which was built in 1926 and currently is used for a swap meet, would be converted into a multi-use entertainment space for live theater, film screenings, musical performances and community and social events. The project also would include the creation of 49 units of affordable housing and a 300-space parking garage.

According to CRA officials, the Music Box@Fonda, which runs the Music Box theater in Hollywood, would operate and program the revamped Westlake Theatre, and Culture Clash, the popular and respected Latino performance ensemble that is marking its 25th anniversary this year, would become the facility's resident theater company. In addition to performing at the theater for a minimum of 30 days per year, Culture Clash would provide youth-oriented programming and instruction in writing and acting, said Leslie Lambert, the CRA's administrator for its Hollywood and Central region.

"They're very popular; they attract a big audience," said Lambert in explaining the selection of Culture Clash, known for its mix of antic comedy and biting social commentary. "Ethnically, they fit perfectly with that community. They're very much in touch with that community. [And] they'll bring in audiences from elsewhere."

Richard Montoya of Culture Clash, who with colleagues Herbert Siguenza and Ric Salinas has operated as a gypsy ensemble since the group moved from the Bay Area to Los Angeles in the early 1990s, praised the Westlake Theatre as "a grand old faded lady" and said the trio was excited about finally acquiring a "bricks and mortar" home of its own.

"Thank God there's angels in bureaucracy -- there are -- that have said, 'You guys deserve a home,' " Montoya said in a recent interview. "We're, like, two Salvadorans, one Chicano, there's a need in the area."

However, he emphasized, MacArthur Park is "not an area devoid of culture. No, it's a very, actually, sophisticated place."

Indeed, the new facility is intended to enhance the revitalization of one of the city's most culturally rich neighborhoods, following a long period in which soaring crime rates and economic decline marred the area's image. The 633-acre Westlake Recovery Redevelopment Project Area was conceived in 1999 with the aims of stimulating economic development, rehabilitating existing housing and businesses, creating new housing, and improving public infrastructure and services. Other neighborhood projects include buffing up building facades.

Last week, the CRA's board of commissioners voted to begin negotiations with the project's developers, Millennium Partners, which will have up to 15 months to produce a formal plan to convert the 18,000-square-foot structure and the 1.2-acre site, which is bounded by Wilshire Boulevard, 6th and Alvarado streets and Westlake Avenue.

Plans call for the facility's ground floor to be used for retail; and there has been discussion of adding a central courtyard and a rooftop restaurant. The city will help the swap meet vendors operating in the building to find new quarters.

Lambert estimated that the total cost of the project would be between $20 million and $25 million. She said it is likely that a not-for-profit entity would be formed to assume ownership of the building or else lease it from CRA, which purchased the structure in 2008.

The project would be funded by "largely if not entirely public money," she said, and historic tax credits could be applied, given the building's landmark stature.

Millennium -- which, Lambert said, was chosen as the project's overall developer after a lengthy process of competitive application and soliciting community input -- has developed mixed-use properties, including apartment complexes, hotels and office space.

Neither Music Box nor Millennium representatives could be reached for comment.

Lambert said the theater's old proscenium stage will have to be rebuilt, and retractable seats will be installed. Reduced ticket prices for Culture Clash performances will be offered to area residents, she added.

Montoya said that having a permanent space would enable Culture Clash to extend its creative endeavors and share its resources and knowledge with emerging artists.

"At least turn the keys over to some young people and say, 'We're done, we're just over here if you need us, but here's the keys to the asylum.' "

pesto

December 1st, 2009, 06:50 PM

Culture Clash isn't a bad choice, but "institutionalizing" them is just more welfare. Update the theater but let them pay full rent like anybody else. If they can survive like Beach Blanket Babylon or Second City or others, then great. It's not like there is a huge shortage of small theater in LA.

And what about Broadway? Wouldn't they be more appropriate there? I mean is that the "Theater District" or is it in Westlake?

soup or man

January 6th, 2010, 11:55 PM

From Curbed:

http://la.curbed.com/uploads/2009.09.hanoversbig.jpg

Hammer, hammer: Another possible new building for Wilshire Boulevard. The Larchmont Chronicle reports that the Land Use Committee of the Mid City West Community Council OK'd plans for developer Hanover's 21-story residential and mixed-use tower on Wilshire Blvd, sending it to a neighborhood council for a vote on Jan. 12th. The final EIR is expected to be released later this month.

Btw..this will rise on Wilshire and Cresent Heights. One block east of Fairfax.

Imperfect Ending

January 7th, 2010, 09:01 AM

^^ That design is widely used everywhere

Mr.Hollywood

February 4th, 2010, 04:52 AM

any new updates???

Westsidelife

February 4th, 2010, 07:23 AM

^ If there were updates, we'd post them. :|

vidgms

February 5th, 2010, 12:18 AM

any new updates???

Hey, thanks for asking! Its been a while since we last talked, I'm just about to graduate school, only 4 months. Uh, still in SoCal doing my thing, that would be sitting in traffic on the freeways. Starting Grad School in the fall...

Oh, you wanted building updates?

Yeah, don't have any of those for Wilshire. Sorry guys, we gotta stop sending each other private message updates on all the construction that has been happening on Wilshire and actually put them up for other people to see. Gotta keep Mr. Hollywood here up to date.

Sorry dude, just messing, I just think its obvious that if there were updates, they would be here almost immediately.

milquetoast

February 5th, 2010, 08:13 AM

Hey, thanks for asking! Its been a while since we last talked, I'm just about to graduate school.

High School, Grade School or Stripper School?

vidgms

February 5th, 2010, 08:59 AM

Stripper school, check me out down the block in a few. haha.

I actually wanted to let everyone know that my new strip club will be opening on wilshire in the very near future.

I think that is the update Mr. Hollywood is looking for!

milquetoast

February 5th, 2010, 11:33 AM

Dammit! I unwittingly was duped into becoming your middleman ...

Mr.Hollywood

February 6th, 2010, 02:08 AM

saiholmes

August 24th, 2010, 05:34 AM

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site200/2010/0709/20100709__School2.jpg
RFK is LAUSD's most costly campus – and it needs more cash
By Connie Llanos, Staff Writer
Daily News Los Angeles
Posted: 07/09/2010 09:32:39 PM PDT
Updated: 07/10/2010 01:32:19 PM PDT

A view of the high school entrance at the new Robert F. Kennedy Community Schools location Friday, July 9, 2010, in Los Angeles, CA. The school, which cost an estimated $580 million to build, has different entrances for high school, middle school and elementary school. (Andy Holzman/Daily News Staff Photographer)

Already ballooning to $572 million, Los Angeles Unified's most expensive school – and possibly the nation's – looks like it will need a final $6 million infusion before fully opening this fall.

The Robert F. Kennedy Community Schools, a K-12 complex on the former site of the Ambassador Hotel where Kennedy was assassinated in 1968, needs the money to satisfy environmental regulations.

School board members are scheduled Tuesday to vote on the additional funding request.

The school will consist of six different learning centers and enroll 4,260 students, making the cost per seat about $135,000 – nearly 40 percent higher than the average school built in the central Los Angeles area over the past two years.

It even exceeds the per-seat cost of the pricey High School for the Visual and Performing Arts, whose $132,000 per-seat price tag – along with its bold, roller-coaster inspired architecture – raised plenty of eyebrows when it opened in September 2009.

District officials say the cost of the Robert F. Kennedy complex is more than justified if you consider its urban location, historical significance and expected community role.

"It has all the modern amenities, like an underground garage, a pool, a state-of-the-art auditorium...," said James Sohn, LAUSD's chief facilities executive. "In that context, cost of the schools is appropriate."

The 23-acre Wilshire Boulevard lot will bring the park-starved neighborhood much-needed green space, including soccer fields and a state-of-the-art swimming pool. It also includes public art pieces and a marble mural memorial to Kennedy, who was running for president when he was gunned down in the hotel's kitchen.

Still, some of the items purchased for the school have caught the attention of top district officials, such as talking benches designed by artists to commemorate the historic significance of the Ambassador Hotel and its famous Cocoanut Grove nightclub.

"If you're asking me if I can justify a talking bench... when I look at the science labs and libraries of our older schools ... I cannot," LAUSD Superintendent Ramon Cortines said.

Cortines questioned the need for such items to be paid for out of taxpayer funds, when they could have been funded through private donations.

But the schools chief said small extravagances shouldn't detract from seeing the school as a centerpiece for the community and the city.

From its inception, the Ambassador schools were intended to be one of the most elaborate campuses, funded through the district's $20 billion voter-approved construction bond program.

The project was bid in two separate phases, for an initial total cost of $400 million, district officials said. Rising construction costs, for the most part, caused the district to add $170 million to the total price tag in 2008, although most media reported the original $400 million price tag as recently as January, when it was officially named after Kennedy.

The RFK complex of schools is now the most expensive campus ever built by LAUSD, surpassing even the $377 million spent to renovate and decontaminate the troubled Belmont Learning Complex, which had been built on toxic land.

Of the $170 million in additional cost, some $21 million was from change orders requested by the contractor. Most of those changes were to meet stringent state requirements and historical preservation requirements, district officials said.

The move to build a school on the Ambassador Hotel site began in the 1980s.

When the district began its battle to acquire the site, it was busing 3,800 students in the adjacent community to schools across the city - and as far as the west San Fernando Valley.

Still, the district had to spar for a decade with business mogul Donald Trump, who wanted to build the world's tallest skyscraper on the land.

Later district officials also fought historic preservationists who wanted to stop the school's construction.

After heated negotiations, preservationists abandoned the effort, but only after officials agreed to some concessions. That included re-creating key elements of the Ambassador site, including the historic Cocoanut Grove nightclub where singers like Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr. once performed for Hollywood celebrities.

"I am very excited that after many years of struggle and many years of community action, we can finally open the door on the Robert F. Kennedy Community Schools project ...," said LAUSD board President Monica Garcia. "This is going to be an amazing facility for some 4,000 K-12 students."

Garcia acknowledged the cost, but noted that a lot of money has gone to a number of lawsuits and agreements to preserve the site.

"I am glad we invested when we did and this school continues to be part of the struggle to get to 100 percent graduation in this district."

Neil Gamble, LAUSD's deputy chief of facilities, said the new construction phase of the district's massive construction program is coming to an end, with only a couple of schools left to bid.

"We do not have another school of this magnitude either under construction or planned," Gamble said.

School board member Steve Zimmer said he will look closely at the change orders that have been requested for the project. But he added that "if the true cost were $250,000 a seat, it would be worth every penny."

Charter school officials, however, said LAUSD's construction costs were exorbitant.

"If you look at that cost per seat, that is three or four times what many charter schools are delivering in the Los Angeles area," said Jed Wallace, president of the California Charter School Association.

"I think things could have been done far more efficiently than this project suggests is happening ...," Wallace said. "In this era of great financial pressure I believe we need to use our resources as wisely and efficiently as possible."

Big ticket productions

$578M — Expected construction cost for Robert F. Kennedy Community Schools on former Ambassador Hotel site.

$135K — Construction cost per student seat

Here are some other big L.A. facilities built in recent years for hundred-million-plus price tags:

Hollywood & Highland complex: $625 million, 2001

Americana at Brand: $400 million, 2008

Staples Center: $375 million, 1999

Walt Disney Concert Hall: $274 million, 2003

Universal Studios backlot: $200 million, 2010

Downtown cathedral: $190 million, 2002

Home Depot center: $150 million, 2003

Read More: http://www.dailynews.com/ci_15481816

pesto

September 6th, 2010, 06:13 PM

It's not just a memorial to Bobby Kennedy, it's also a memorial to the Rat Pack? So, we are teaching 4000 students to honor an incompetent who got a job only through his brother, and a bunch of 1950's hard-drinking swingers and womanizers?

klamedia

September 6th, 2010, 06:54 PM

No worse than the endless schools named after a child molester and slave holder. (Jefferson)

pesto

September 7th, 2010, 03:32 AM

Jefferson had some issues but also wrote the best parts of the Declaration of Independence, was the first left wing President, a great thinker and architect, etc. I would think you would admire him.

Frank and Sammy were good entertainers. Bobbie was so incompetent that the laws were changed by a Democratic Congress to keep Presidents from appointing relatives to the Cabinet. That's about it for that group.

But let's hope the kids get a decent education there.

klamedia

September 7th, 2010, 05:54 PM

Yeah he wrote the best parts of the DOI but did not follow through with his own "enlightment" making him in essence quite a hypocrite. RFK who despite what may have really been going on help to pass the 1964 Civil Rights Act and we could only wish that our 3rd president would have had the courage and true "enlightment" to think as radically as this:

"At the University of Natal in Durban, I was told the church to which most of the white population belongs teaches apartheid as a moral necessity. A questioner declared that few churches allow black Africans to pray with the white because the Bible says that is the way it should be, because God created Negroes to serve. "But suppose God is black", I replied. "What if we go to Heaven and we, all our lives, have treated the Negro as an inferior, and God is there, and we look up and He is not white? What then is our response?" There was no answer. Only silence." South Africa, June 1966. - Robert F. Kennedy

soup or man

September 7th, 2010, 09:03 PM

This is all very lovely but can we get back on topic?

There is a sign and a rendering of a new residential building on Wilshire and La Brea.

saiholmes

September 13th, 2010, 06:01 AM

http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/la-me-rfkschool21.jpg
The Ambassador Hotel
http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/la-me-rfkschool01.jpg
Robert F. Kennedy Community Schools
http://latimesphoto.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/la-me-rfkschool09.jpg
Robert F. Kennedy Community Schools

Read More: http://framework.latimes.com/2010/09/12/new-schools-rise-from-ambassador-hotel-site/#/0

pesto

September 13th, 2010, 05:12 PM

Love the crosses in the front windows. Bobby and Frank were good Catholics, but I think Sammy went Jewish.

It is in Ktown and the Koreans are pretty hard-core Christians.

saiholmes

November 13th, 2010, 05:16 AM

http://thesource.metro.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Bus-Lane-590x455.jpg

Staff issues recommendations for Wilshire bus lane project
Posted by Steve Hymon in Policy & Funding, Projects on November 12, 2010 - 11:15 am
Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority

Metro’s planning staff have issued their recommendations for the Wilshire Bus Rapid Transit Project, which proposes to install rush hour bus lanes in the curb lane of 8.7 miles of Wilshire Boulevard, mostly in the city of Los Angeles.

Here’s the staff report. This is a project being built by Metro, the city of L.A. and Los Angeles County.

It will be up to the Metro Board of Directors to approve the staff recommendation, which is part of the project’s final environmental impact report. The Directors are scheduled to consider the project at the Planning & Programming Committee next Wednesday and to vote on accepting the staff proposal at the full board meeting on Dec. 9. Both the Los Angeles City Council and County Board of Supervisors will also have to approve the project.

A few details on what Metro planning staff are proposing:

•The bus lanes would be mostly in the curb lane of Wilshire and be operating on weekdays between the hours of 7 to 9 a.m. and 4 and 7 p.m.

•The lanes would run between Wilshire & Centinela and Wilshire & South Park View, a distance of 8.7 miles. Private vehicles turning right can use the lanes. Conversely, buses will be allowed to use general purpose lanes to pass other buses.

•There would not be any bus lane in the portion of Wilshire in Beverly Hills. Metro staff says they didn’t have time to consult with the city before applying for federal funding for the project in 2007 but that the bus lane could be added there in the future.

•The parking lane and the curbside jut outs on Wilshire between Comstock and Malcolm in the Westwood area would be retained and not converted to a bus lane. This is being done because of neighborhood concerns over the loss of about 85 parking spaces on Wilshire and 40 trees that would have had to be removed. The furthest right of the general traffic lanes in this area — there are three in each direction — will be used for the bus lane.

•Although residents have requested that there be no bus lane between Selby Avenue and Comstock Avenue, Metro has decided the bus lane here is needed to reduce bus travel times and improve service reliability.

•The eastern end of the bus lane is at South Park View because east of there Wilshire narrows to two lanes in each direction with no median. Converting one of the lanes to a bus lane would only leave one general purpose lane — leaving no room for private vehicles to pass one another.

•Of the 74 intersections studied, the project would increase traffic delays at nine intersections near or along Wilshire, due in part to traffic signals being reworked to help move buses along Wilshire. Most of the delays are estimated at less than 15 seconds. The intersections impacted are Veteran & Sunset, Bundy & Wilshire, Veteran & Santa Monica, Westwood & Olympic, Westwood & Pico, Beverly Glen & Santa Monica, Fairfax & Wilshire, La Brea & Wilshire and Overland & Santa Monica.
•Staff estimates that 12 to 17 minutes will be shaved off the trip along the bus lanes and that up to 10 percent of motorists could shift to bus use in coming years. The bus lane, too, should help people using the future Westside Subway Extension reach destinations between rail stations more quickly. Wilshire is the busiest bus corridor in L.A. County.

•The project is estimated to cost an estimated $31 million with about $23 million coming from a “Very Small Starts” grant from the Federal Transit Administration. The project could be complete by mid-2012.

•The number of people using curb lanes in private vehicles at this time is at about 1,000 people an hour com compared 1,500 or so on Metro buses (although that includes the soon-to-be-eliminated 920 line). The bus lanes could increase that number to 1,800 an hour, according to Metro staff.

Here’s a previous post from June with more about the project.

-- Steve Hymon

Read More: http://thesource.metro.net/2010/11/12/staff-issues-recommendations-for-wilshire-bus-lane-project/

soup or man

January 28th, 2011, 10:13 PM

djm19

January 28th, 2011, 11:53 PM

W00t. New development!

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2011-01/59069303.jpg
Developer Jerry Snyder’s new plan for the corner of Wilshire Boulevard and Vermont Avenue calls for a $150-million, 464-unit apartment complex in two towers of 25 and 30 stories. (Jerde Partnership / January 28, 2011)

"Builder Jerry Snyder plans to break ground this summer on a 464-unit complex at Wilshire Boulevard and Vermont Avenue, where he had previously announced his intention to build a vertical retail mall.

Snyder and his J.H. Snyder Co., with partner Michael Wise, are finishing plans for an apartment complex called the Vermont that would put residences in two towers of 25 and 30 stories. The ground level on Wilshire and Vermont would house restaurants and shops."

Full story on LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/business/realestate/la-fi-snyder-project-20110128,0,7291871.story)

The density is good, but the way it interacts with Wilshire and Vermont is absolutely HORRIBLE. I can't give my vote of approval to this project for that reason. It doesn't fit with it's surroundings, its not pedestrian friendly, its way too set back, theres a huge blank wall on vermont.

LA needs to not approve things just for the sake of density. Design needs to be considered. This building lacks thought.

pesto

January 29th, 2011, 06:23 PM

djm: largely agree that they could have done better and I would like to get more specifics about how much retail frontage and open space is being created. But let me argue some general points on the other side.

Outside of DT, Wilshire is not "wall-to-the sidewalk". There are a number of plazas, set-backs, entries, grassy sitting areas, etc., that make for better light and easier circulation of people, to say nothing of nicer views and a less intense feeling. A walk from Alvarado to Western or from La Brea to La Cienega highlights some of these. Westwood and BH also have set-backs but a very active street life. Even midtown NY (Rockefeller Plaza, SONY, Citibank and many other buildings; pocket parks; plazas) seek to break up the oppressive nature of solid towers by creating large or small open spaces, although, given the weather, they are often covered in glass.

The article says that ground level would be retail and restaurants along Wilshire and Vermont; I'm not sure that leaving room for people to sit or hang-out for a few minutes is such a bad idea. But again, it clearly can go too far. I am not looking for DT intense, but I am not looking resort casual either.

klamedia

January 29th, 2011, 07:14 PM

Agreed. In the article it says that the Vermont/ Wilshire side would front some retail. And these type of valet cut ins are all over Manhattan. I like it. I approve. Setbacks are not bad when done right either. I love the typical LA 20's-30's multi family housing 2 to 3 stories with a front yard all around Hollywood, Koreatown and the core of the city. They are cute!
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q138/tmaxx6/setbacksapartment.jpg

Westsidelife

February 8th, 2011, 05:21 AM

^ Where in Manhattan do you see obtrusively massive driveways such as the one depicted in the rendering? Nowhere.

The design is terrible. Nice density, but terrible design.

pesto

February 9th, 2011, 06:16 PM

Partly agree. It strikes me that off Wilshire and Vermont entries would be better for traffic reasons. I'm not sure why they aren't planning that.

But more generally, Ktown is not Manhattan. It is full of set-backs, parks, plazas, etc. I suppose opinions can vary, but I prefer this to the density of much of Manhattan.

As for Manhattan, the entries to some large hotels (Waldorf, Hilton, etc.) probably have areas that are drive-through loading areas or otherwise reserved for cars, loading of people and luggage, etc. The effect is about the same: a short distance where people in cars, taxis, limos, vans, etc., compete with people on foot.

On the same note, the Hilton SF wipes out 1/4 of a long block of Ellis (between Mason and Taylor) for parking entrances. Many other hotels do the same even in the heart of DT. Similar is found in hotels and residential high-rises in large cities throughout the world.

klamedia

February 10th, 2011, 05:38 PM

But more generally, Ktown is not Manhattan. It is full of set-backs, parks, plazas, etc. I suppose opinions can vary, but I prefer this to the density of much of Manhattan.

Agree.

klamedia

February 10th, 2011, 05:44 PM

^ Where in Manhattan do you see obtrusively massive driveways such as the one depicted in the rendering? Nowhere.

The design is terrible. Nice density, but terrible design.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q138/tmaxx6/manhattanhotelentrance.jpg
Pretty obtrusive.^^

Kenny

February 11th, 2011, 10:44 PM

Westsidelife

February 14th, 2011, 10:15 PM

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q138/tmaxx6/manhattanhotelentrance.jpg
Pretty obtrusive.^^

Which hotel is that? I want to see it on Google Street View.

And I wouldn't call that "massive."

Westsidelife

February 14th, 2011, 10:22 PM

croyboy

February 15th, 2011, 01:12 AM

There's a huge blank wall now on Vermont too.

I believe there's a reason they want to keep it that way. South of Wilshire on Vermont are not the cleanest and/or safest blocks. Wilshire Blvd is a ribbon of civility through some of those areas, so why not face it. Sad but true.

i don't see anything dirty or unsafe about vermont south of wilshire... there's some nice nightlife and eateries there.

plus, who's "they" when you say they wanna keep it that way? the developers? every developer wants the area they're in to bring in the crowds.

klamedia

February 15th, 2011, 07:14 AM

Which hotel is that? I want to see it on Google Street View.

And I wouldn't call that "massive."

We were talking about the entrance interfacing with the street, you don't need to know which hotel that is. The picture clearly shows an obtrusive entrance by any city's standards.

klamedia

February 15th, 2011, 07:15 AM

i don't see anything dirty or unsafe about vermont south of wilshire... there's some nice nightlife and eateries there.

plus, who's "they" when you way they wanna keep it that way? the developers? every developer wants the area they're in to bring in the crowds.

He's out of touch with the area.

pesto

February 15th, 2011, 06:26 PM

Vermont south of Wilshire ain't BH, but I never think of it as way off the charts as compared to the general area. I could be wrong.

More interestingly is what should be happening going forward. The Korean presence is obvious and extends to DT as far south as Olympic and Pico. You would think the trend would be toward taller on Vermont and densification of the area generally. Wilshire and the USC area would be the starting points.

Could we hope that Vermont emulates what is happening on Fig between Wilshire and University Park?

Westsidelife

February 17th, 2011, 12:06 AM

We were talking about the entrance interfacing with the street, you don't need to know which hotel that is. The picture clearly shows an obtrusive entrance by any city's standards.

The difference is that that driveway is underneath the building, where as the one in the Synder project effectively widens the street another lane. The Synder driveway is 2-3 times the size of the one in the picture. There is no comparison.

Kenny

February 17th, 2011, 05:57 PM

He's out of touch with the area.

I love your generalizations. I'm not out of touch with the area Klams. There's a 24 Hr Salvadoran restaurant on 7th and Vermont which I have gone to on and off for 15 years , and Ocha of course.

Sentiments like these are the reason why this city hardly ever makes any meaningful progress.

The city has made great progress. I'm not in a position to make changes, I'm just an observer.

i don't see anything dirty or unsafe about vermont south of wilshire... there's some nice nightlife and eateries there.

plus, who's "they" when you say they wanna keep it that way? the developers? every developer wants the area they're in to bring in the crowds.

Yes the developers.

The area is not terribly unsafe, but there's a huge difference between going for lunch or dinner, versus living there. It gets interesting late at night. So my point is that I understand why the developers would want to face Wilshire Blvd.

pesto

February 17th, 2011, 09:07 PM

Kenni: what's the Salvadoran place? I've been to Pal Cabron and a number of Korean places, and some bars on Wilshire but could use some latino recommendations.

Kenny

February 17th, 2011, 11:47 PM

Kenni: what's the Salvadoran place? I've been to Pal Cabron and a number of Korean places, and some bars on Wilshire but could use some latino recommendations.

Texis.

It's in the little strip mall on the corner of 7th and Vermont. The restaurant is right in the corner. They have descent pupusas, but if you want the best, go to Atlacatl Restaurant on the corner of Berendo and Beverly, Atlacatl isn't 24 hrs tho.

croyboy

February 18th, 2011, 02:36 AM

Yes the developers.

The area is not terribly unsafe, but there's a huge difference between going for lunch or dinner, versus living there. It gets interesting late at night. So my point is that I understand why the developers would want to face Wilshire Blvd.

there is differences like that everywhere, but i have to say it's not significant in this case. i've lived further south on vermont than wilshire.

but i still don't see a reason developers would prefer facing one direction over the other (difference in safety is nothing there). at that intersection, both streets seem to have just as much traffic on them, so it would benefit businesses to face both directions.

klamedia

February 18th, 2011, 06:02 PM

The difference is that that driveway is underneath the building, where as the one in the Synder project effectively widens the street another lane. The Synder driveway is 2-3 times the size of the one in the picture. There is no comparison.

Poppycock! The point being made here is that they both cut into the sidewalk and allow a valet type semi-circular driveway to disrupt the pedestrian flow.

pesto

February 18th, 2011, 06:38 PM

Kenni: thanks; I'll try them both.

Klam: "Poppycock" is one of my favorite words. I'm going to try to use it today.

Driveway: interesting discussion; there always seems to be a trade-off in these things. If you move the driveway to the side street you may have more room, but you mess up what could have been a quieter street. You could use an alleyway, but that may reduce accessibility and create noise for neighbors.

NY, due to its density, tends to have blocked street problems. I have walked along 50th and the loading zone and parking lot entries for the Waldorf often not only have the sidewalk blocked but the street as well, just a few feet off Park. And, of course, this lasts for as long as they feel like it. You learn to use altrnate streets.

milquetoast

February 19th, 2011, 05:38 AM

There may have to be zones where personal vehicular traffic is terminated. Also, poppycock!

Kenny

February 21st, 2011, 12:50 AM

there is differences like that everywhere, but i have to say it's not significant in this case. i've lived further south on vermont than wilshire.

but i still don't see a reason developers would prefer facing one direction over the other (difference in safety is nothing there). at that intersection, both streets seem to have just as much traffic on them, so it would benefit businesses to face both directions.

All depends on the vision of each developer. All I said is that knowing the area, I understand why the developer would want to make the face of their project Wilshire Blvd, having that choice it's a no brainer.

croyboy

February 21st, 2011, 06:02 PM

understood. i just think that long term, it's a little shortsighted. catching more people's attention (for vehicles and pedestrians) would benefit businesses and might gain more revenue from customers. especially with everything that's opened in the last 5 years on vermont to bring in people (karaoke, restaurants, etc...), it would have been better to not break up any pedestrian flow

klamedia

February 22nd, 2011, 05:44 PM

Maybe I'm missing something. Doesn't the article specifically call for retail fronting Vermont?

croyboy

February 24th, 2011, 06:10 AM

i can't find that anywhere in the article, but the article is vague and uses the term "wilshire and vermont" (i think referencing just the fact that this development is at that intersection)...

based on what i see in the rendering, it looks like the whole side of the development is a blank wall (except maybe a lobby entrance or window at the north-west corner)

milquetoast

April 20th, 2011, 01:43 PM

COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY TO VOTE ON VERMONT/WILSHIRE http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%203/Fullscreencapture420201143532AM.jpg . Even as the future of the Community Redevelopment Agency hangs in the balance, the agency is set to vote this Thursday on up to $17.5 million in aid for developer J.H. Snyder's two-tower apartment project designed by local architecture firm Jerde. Located above the Purple and Red Lines, the project- a 25-story tower and a 30-story tower with 464 one- and two-bedroom apartments- was announced earlier this year. . http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/trolltoast/album%203/Fullscreencapture420201143540AM.jpg . NEAL BROVERMAN CURBEDLA

D'Transporter

June 9th, 2011, 04:11 PM

Construction has began on the NW corner of Bixel and Wilshire, is this going to be another skyscraper??

D'Transporter

June 9th, 2011, 04:32 PM

Is this going to be the 1111 Wilshire Project??

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3178/2830807481_503566b111_o.jpg

pesto

June 9th, 2011, 05:53 PM

It sounds like the tower has been axed.

PinkFloyd

May 17th, 2012, 07:55 AM

From Curbed:

Work Set to Begin at Koreatown's Giant The Vermont Towers (http://la.curbed.com/archives/2012/05/work_set_to_begin_at_koreatowns_giant_the_vermont_towers.php)

http://la.curbed.com/uploads/2012_05_thevermont.jpg

We haven't heard much lately about The Vermont, the proposed two-tower megaproject across from the subway station at Vermont and Wilshire. Developer JH Snyder has gotten some good news from Uncle Sam: the Housing and Urban Development department announced on Friday that they were giving Snyder a $12.5 million loan, which will fund the retail and parking components of the project. The Community Redevelopment Agency was supposed to push $17.5 million toward this project last year; it's not clear if it got to Snyder before the CRA was killed by Governor Brown. Anyway, HUD describes the project as thus: "The Vermont will provide approximately 35,000 square feet of retail space, 464 market-rate apartment units, and 910 indoor parking spaces." The towers will be 22 and 28 stories and there will also be a quarter-acre central courtyard. We've seen a lot of action going on at the site, though a building permit was just pulled a week ago. The project has two architects working on it: Jerde Partnership and Harley Ellis Devereaux.

pesto

May 17th, 2012, 07:40 PM

From Curbed:

More great news! Right at transit and with enough parking for residents and retail.

Hope to see more of this between Vermont and DT (as well as along Fig down to SC). This is on the border between Ktown and West Lake amd could be the start of a real exapnsion east into the weakest link in the Wilshire Corridor. There are some very decent buildings and small 'hoods around there and more money coming in would be nice.

klamedia

May 18th, 2012, 06:35 PM

Right at transit and with enough parking for residents and retail.

Are you attempting to be sarcastic?

ErnCas

May 19th, 2012, 02:02 AM

The good this project does to add street life is killed by instigating car over-usage.

dachacon

May 20th, 2012, 02:49 AM

Are you attempting to be sarcastic?

I believe he is serious, and I agree. As much as we would love for people to abandon their cars, they will not. So until the Transit System is fully built out where you can get to more than 80% of the region on rail or express way. The developer will have to play to both the transit user and the driver. Besides parking is a great asset to have. Charge people 20 bucks for 3 hours of use these guys have $$$ in their eyes.

croyboy

May 20th, 2012, 07:19 PM

also, $20 is very discouraging to drivers (i would think)

dachacon

May 21st, 2012, 03:00 AM

also, $20 is very discouraging to drivers (i would think)

So is paying $300 for a $20 bottle of Vodka at a club, but to each is own.

klamedia

May 21st, 2012, 06:50 PM

I believe he is serious, and I agree. As much as we would love for people to abandon their cars, they will not. So until the Transit System is fully built out where you can get to more than 80% of the region on rail or express way. The developer will have to play to both the transit user and the driver. Besides parking is a great asset to have. Charge people 20 bucks for 3 hours of use these guys have $$$ in their eyes.

How did you come with 80% being the benchmark? How about 90%? Or 100%? Or just 50%? The bottom line is that the supply side approach doesn't work until you begin inducing demand. When we reach this arbitrary 80% number is that when someone from City Hall will appear on tv exclaiming that no parking will be built henceforth?

No one anywhere builds out an entire transit system that may take anywhere from 20 to 100 years and then and only then begin to strategically eradicate incentives that undercut such an expensive investment. If that were the case the Eastside of Manhattan would have huge parking garages and a minimum parking requirement of 2 cars because of the missing link of the 2nd Ave subway that is finally being built. Your logic is basically that we can't limit parking around transit nodes now because we haven't built a branch to Temecula. Relax or eliminate parking standards around transit nodes wherever they may be whenever transit becomes available and as your transit system expands you will change behavior as well. And we all know that it will be cheap subsidized parking in those garages. H&H to this day offers $2 parking above a major subway line that carries half of all the riders on the entire BART system. How many more riders would it have if we effectively induced demand? Ridiculous. Foolish. And stupid.:ohno:

dachacon

May 21st, 2012, 10:25 PM

How did you come with 80% being the benchmark? How about 90%? Or 100%? Or just 50%? The bottom line is that the supply side approach doesn't work until you begin inducing demand. When we reach this arbitrary 80% number is that when someone from City Hall will appear on tv exclaiming that no parking will be built henceforth?

No one anywhere builds out an entire transit system that may take anywhere from 20 to 100 years and then and only then begin to strategically eradicate incentives that undercut such an expensive investment. If that were the case the Eastside of Manhattan would have huge parking garages and a minimum parking requirement of 2 cars because of the missing link of the 2nd Ave subway that is finally being built. Your logic is basically that we can't limit parking around transit nodes now because we haven't built a branch to Temecula. Relax or eliminate parking standards around transit nodes wherever they may be whenever transit becomes available and as your transit system expands you will change behavior as well. And we all know that it will be cheap subsidized parking in those garages. H&H to this day offers $2 parking above a major subway line that carries half of all the riders on the entire BART system. How many more riders would it have if we effectively induced demand? Ridiculous. Foolish. And stupid.:ohno:

The 80% was just a random high number to just make a point. When you reach a point higher than 66% or 2/3, psychologically you reach a point of a super majority and a sense of completion. Besides, reaching 50% could work to but will leave holes, and 100% is just to optimistic, and like you said will take a very long long time.

The point I was trying to make, and clearly not making (that last part is serious and not sarcastic. thanks for keeping us on our toes Klamedia) is even though you will have a semi complete transit system, people will still want to drive. Its human nature, you want a choice, Using Manhattan as an example, and I stayed on the island for a summer, the number of complaints you hear from people about the lack of parking is tremendous, That is from people who can't find parking for their cars near where they live. let alone from visitors form other areas visiting a restaurant, or nightclub. Living completely car free is possible, but only if your on the island. the other four boroughs have to work on their transit corridors, especially Staten Island. almost like LA, downtown is pretty easy to live car free but outside say the SFV its impossible.

So whats wrong with a developer wanting to cater to both crowds? Provide plenty of parking for those that want to drive and charge a free market price that people will pay. $20 sounds about right, and provide large sidewalks and vegetation for shade for the transit users. H&H offers cheap parking because if memory serves me right, the entire complex was built with public money form the CRA, and they demanded cheap parking to attract people to the area. That was a long time ago and the area has changed. The wonders of economics works to change peoples habits very fast. How fast do you thing people will change from driving to taking the redline if H&H changed to free market parking prices?

klamedia

May 22nd, 2012, 12:00 AM

klamedia

May 22nd, 2012, 12:20 AM

Also this is a great read on duplicative infrastructure in Dallas. Building out an LRT line and a highway at the same time resulting in very low ridership for a wonderfully large system.

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2012/05/16/a-tollway-in-dallas-and-the-absurdity-of-building-duplicative-infrastructure/

croyboy

May 23rd, 2012, 03:53 AM

So is paying $300 for a $20 bottle of Vodka at a club, but to each is own.

puttin it to good use.. at least im not driving and paying $320, plus risking a DUI

dachacon

May 24th, 2012, 11:21 AM

Counting all urban rail, BRT and commuter rail what % would you place us at?

If the free market (something that I don't put much faith in) was really at work there would be a user fee on public highways that serve private automobiles or sans the user fee and provide a public option like rail or bus on the highways with an exclusive ROW.

Since we know that a subterranean parking space is anywhere between $20,000 to $50,000 per space I'm assuming that charging $20 per space wouldn't have the developer breaking even for a very long time.

Many more people would ride the public's capital investment if the true cost of driving a car was realized. We also need to be aware that the metropolitan area loses money and becomes less competitive as congestion increases. Alternatives must be made available for LA to stay in the running with other world cities that have fabulous transit systems or are developing them. You can't supply ALL options to your population.

Using NYC again, there is a very real reason why NYC isn't building cheap 5-6 level parking underneath every skyscraper that goes up. You and I both know why and we also know that if they did it would hit their economy like a rock as tourists would begin to find the city far too congested to even get anywhere in a cab and $$$$ would be lost. LA is no different. The city must hone its congestion into preferred modes of travel if it wants to stay world class and the time is now. Everyone won't be able to drive willy nilly anymore. Those days have come to pass. The city must mature if it wants to survive.

Sorry for responding so late, been busy with work and finals. Since the entire County covers 4060 sq miles, Metro only covers the western half of the county, minus the mountains, Antelope Valley, and water, you get a coverage area of 1,433 sq miles. Breaking down the number of stations and areas they serve, mind you as with everything these numbers are up for debate, Commuter station serve a 5 mile radius, subway, LRT, and BRT have a 1/2 mile radius. So math works out below: for those who can't remember area of a circle is Area = (pi) × R2
78 Metro Stations *1/2sq mile = 61.25 sq miles
20 MetroLink Stations *5sq miles= 1570 sq miles
23 BRT Station *1/2sq mile= 18 sq miles
Total stations: 121 covering 1649.25 sq miles.

with the raw data we have a coverage area of 115%. take away MetroLink cause it serves a larger area and 99% of those riders drive to the station Besides MetroLink is a commuter rail with the purpose of transporting to local lines like the Red, Blue, and Expo lines. These local lines would serve as a greater caliber to the transit richness of LA. With the new math you have a coverage of around 80 square miles or 18%.

Compared to New York's 421 stations and 209 miles of track giving them a coverage of just over 100%, but not adjusting for the abnormally large amount of stations in Manhattan, and none in Staten Island. With the adjustment I would estimate at 60% coverage.

While I would let free market economics be, anyone who has studied history knows, whenever you let people go hog wild without any rules, chaos and disaster occurs (Lehman Bros.) so regulations and ordinances are needed. While LA is congested, the congestion has not reached a point where it takes 20 minutes to move 1 block as it happens in New York, and one-way streets rule. so adding a few extra thousand parking spaces is not going to kill the area. now if every development on every block in the area had 900 spaces, then we run into serious problems that over time ordinances and zoning changes can address. Since the area south of Wilshire is zoned Low Density the problem is on the back burner so to speak.

milquetoast

May 25th, 2012, 10:39 AM

Wouldn't it be awesome if something somehow
happened to the cars and people were forced
to get to wherever they needed to go in some
other mode? Can you imagine?

Also, lets not use New York as a model, future
or otherwise, as it's not anywhere near related
to the physical and cultural makeup of Los Angeles.
But, back to the mayhem!

Can you imagine everyone concentrating on their
neighborhoods and setting up shop where they live,
and if they couldn't, riding their bikes on the freeways?
Hundreds of thousands, millions on the freeways on their bikes?
Why, Klams would be in ... Klams Heaven!

milquetoast

May 25th, 2012, 10:40 AM

And KLAMS would be our leader!

pesto

May 25th, 2012, 07:39 PM

klamedia

May 26th, 2012, 12:40 AM

If you build two systems, and one beats the hell out of the other, don't you get rid of the other? Just as a general proposition?
No. The two systems are serving different interests. One system forces you to first purchase a private vehicle to use it. The other is made specifically for those who may not be able to afford or don't care to buy a private vehicle. If you got rid of "the other" which I'm going to assume you mean the public system in this case then you're setting up a situation where everyone would become beholden to private market forces without the protection from the government in this case a public option in the form of public transportation.

The problem with the first system, the highway, is that there exists no public option for the most part but was built by the public, a gross contradiction. What would be equitable would be if every highway had a public option in the form of a bus or rail akin to our Green Line running along the length of the 105 freeway. Every freeway should have a segregated bus lane or rail in a ROW or some sort of public accessible mode. The way that it is setup now is that if I'm too poor to afford a car I'm still paying into a system that I cannot access. And then for a freeway not to have an upfront user fee as all buses and trains do in LA County is another gross misstep.

klamedia

May 26th, 2012, 12:56 AM

Sorry for responding so late, been busy with work and finals. Since the entire County covers 4060 sq miles, Metro only covers the western half of the county, minus the mountains, Antelope Valley, and water, you get a coverage area of 1,433 sq miles. Breaking down the number of stations and areas they serve, mind you as with everything these numbers are up for debate, Commuter station serve a 5 mile radius, subway, LRT, and BRT have a 1/2 mile radius. So math works out below: for those who can't remember area of a circle is Area = (pi) × R2
78 Metro Stations *1/2sq mile = 61.25 sq miles
20 MetroLink Stations *5sq miles= 1570 sq miles
23 BRT Station *1/2sq mile= 18 sq miles
Total stations: 121 covering 1649.25 sq miles.

with the raw data we have a coverage area of 115%. take away MetroLink cause it serves a larger area and 99% of those riders drive to the station Besides MetroLink is a commuter rail with the purpose of transporting to local lines like the Red, Blue, and Expo lines. These local lines would serve as a greater caliber to the transit richness of LA. With the new math you have a coverage of around 80 square miles or 18%.

Compared to New York's 421 stations and 209 miles of track giving them a coverage of just over 100%, but not adjusting for the abnormally large amount of stations in Manhattan, and none in Staten Island. With the adjustment I would estimate at 60% coverage.

While I would let free market economics be, anyone who has studied history knows, whenever you let people go hog wild without any rules, chaos and disaster occurs (Lehman Bros.) so regulations and ordinances are needed. While LA is congested, the congestion has not reached a point where it takes 20 minutes to move 1 block as it happens in New York, and one-way streets rule. so adding a few extra thousand parking spaces is not going to kill the area. now if every development on every block in the area had 900 spaces, then we run into serious problems that over time ordinances and zoning changes can address. Since the area south of Wilshire is zoned Low Density the problem is on the back burner so to speak.

Thank you for that attempt but there seems to be some obvious problems here.

1) Metro is a county wide agency but I also found it necessary to include Metrolink since it's an extension of Metro into the remaining parts of the county that is less dense. With the NYC system you only count NYC MTA???? Comparing apples to apples you would also have to count all of the area that the Long Island Railroad covers (meaning ALL of Long Island) as well as clear up the Hudson which is the area that Metro North covers. You can't count the over 4,000 sq miles of LA County and then on the other hand only count 302 sq miles of NYC and think that you've made a solid case.

2) Then we would have to get into density because transit usually doesn't go where folks don't live like is in the case of a very large percentage of LA County which is covered by deserts and mountains.
A much better methodology would probably be measuring an urbanized area's access to rail and bus. Then the direct accessibility of people living within that urbanized area to job centers and trip generators via transit. That would include the walking distance to a bus or rail stop plus the frequency levels at that stop.

3) If you prefer to do only municipalities then shave over 3,000 sq miles off of the LA stats and bring it down to the 469 sq miles which is the area of the City of LA and then go from there. Bus and rail would still have to be counted plus there frequencies and accessibility to anyone on foot.

pesto

May 26th, 2012, 07:25 PM

No. The two systems are serving different interests. One system forces you to first purchase a private vehicle to use it. The other is made specifically for those who may not be able to afford or don't care to buy a private vehicle. If you got rid of "the other" which I'm going to assume you mean the public system in this case then you're setting up a situation where everyone would become beholden to private market forces without the protection from the government in this case a public option in the form of public transportation.

The problem with the first system, the highway, is that there exists no public option for the most part but was built by the public, a gross contradiction. What would be equitable would be if every highway had a public option in the form of a bus or rail akin to our Green Line running along the length of the 105 freeway. Every freeway should have a segregated bus lane or rail in a ROW or some sort of public accessible mode. The way that it is setup now is that if I'm too poor to afford a car I'm still paying into a system that I cannot access. And then for a freeway not to have an upfront user fee as all buses and trains do in LA County is another gross misstep.

I don't want to discuss the details of anything this silly, but please note that this is just "1984 speak" equating the state, the public and the community.

Remember the state builds FOR individuals, not FOR the "state" or "the public". The public doesn't exist; individuals exist.

btw, roads have existed long before states existed. They were built by individuals, as they still are.

klamedia

May 27th, 2012, 10:06 AM

agreed. It's far too silly to discuss.:ohno:

dachacon

May 29th, 2012, 05:00 AM

Thank you for that attempt but there seems to be some obvious problems here.

1) Metro is a county wide agency but I also found it necessary to include Metrolink since it's an extension of Metro into the remaining parts of the county that is less dense. With the NYC system you only count NYC MTA???? Comparing apples to apples you would also have to count all of the area that the Long Island Railroad covers (meaning ALL of Long Island) as well as clear up the Hudson which is the area that Metro North covers. You can't count the over 4,000 sq miles of LA County and then on the other hand only count 302 sq miles of NYC and think that you've made a solid case.

2) Then we would have to get into density because transit usually doesn't go where folks don't live like is in the case of a very large percentage of LA County which is covered by deserts and mountains.
A much better methodology would probably be measuring an urbanized area's access to rail and bus. Then the direct accessibility of people living within that urbanized area to job centers and trip generators via transit. That would include the walking distance to a bus or rail stop plus the frequency levels at that stop.

3) If you prefer to do only municipalities then shave over 3,000 sq miles off of the LA stats and bring it down to the 469 sq miles which is the area of the City of LA and then go from there. Bus and rail would still have to be counted plus there frequencies and accessibility to anyone on foot.

Yes comparing apples to oranges doesn't make much sense, and an amateur mistake on my part when comparing LA to other cities. to finish this off topic discussion just using the stations in LA proper, coverage would be just slightly over 10%.

pesto

December 2nd, 2012, 05:28 PM

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2012/11/the_line.php

Looks like another winner for Ktown as the old Wilshire Plaza goes hip with an LA Korean plus a bit of NY twist. Although Ktown is booming with nightlife, Wilshire itself has little beyond a couple of "pirate bars" and glitzy Korean restaurants who turn club at night.

This has definitely been changing as new restaurants, karaoke bars and such pop up. This looks like a pretty big deal; could Ktown become a new Hollywood? Or at least a new Gangnam?

aquablue

January 6th, 2013, 08:48 AM

milquetoast

January 6th, 2013, 11:02 AM

He was actually making light of the people who
tout living in the Gangnam district, so lets not emulate.

pesto

January 6th, 2013, 05:16 PM

Gangnam is very dense, it has side streets with massive pedestrian traffic and tons of bars and clubs. I.e, no strip malls.

Point taken, but you may be getting a little too literal. I only meant that there is a growth of nightlife ON Wilshire as opposed to Vermont, Western and other streets that already have nightlife late into the night (and it's largely Korean).

And like Gangnam, Ktown is increasing in density, price and economic activity. Otherwise, I'm not trying to draw any parallels.

blackcat23

January 23rd, 2013, 12:13 AM

Vermont/Wilshire construction progress, today.

Now onto the 9th floor above ground.

http://i.imgur.com/ujJDliR.jpg?1

klamedia

January 23rd, 2013, 07:34 PM

This is proof that the economy has been restored to some measure. Is this built by Koreans?

pesto

January 24th, 2013, 05:42 PM

This is proof that the economy has been restored to some measure. Is this built by Koreans?

From a quick look, it's built by J.H. Snyder; funding by a Seattle investment company, but this is presumably a vehicle for foreign or domestic funds or investors.

klamedia

January 24th, 2013, 07:17 PM

milquetoast

January 25th, 2013, 10:13 AM

Those poles are up for a reason.
You're not supposed to ride your bike in there.
And if you're gonna crush that, then I want the Denny's crushed too!

pesto

January 25th, 2013, 05:25 PM

Those poles are up for a reason.
You're not supposed to ride your bike in there.
And if you're gonna crush that, then I want the Denny's crushed too!

No can do Dennys. Too convenient a food source when you get off the Red Line.

klamedia

January 25th, 2013, 06:02 PM

And there are some older ladies that have been working there for decades...where will they go?

blackcat23

January 26th, 2013, 01:17 AM

I was sitting outside having frozen yogurt over the weekend, a very nice day it was, and the enormity of this development is not given justice in this pic. This corner is changed forever...now to crush that gas station on the diagonal side of the street.

Yeah, that angle doesn't really show the full extent of the project. This one is a little better:

http://i.imgur.com/l1Ws8aN.jpg?1

Westsidelife

January 26th, 2013, 12:10 PM

Yeah, that looks massive... and that's only the podium!

milquetoast

January 26th, 2013, 12:13 PM

And there are some older ladies that have been working there for decades...where will they go?

They can go cook for pesto.
What is this Vermont project?

pesto

January 26th, 2013, 06:49 PM

Yeah they can!

I think it's clear that Wilshire and a block or two either side will be getting development (or redevelopment of some of the nicer old places). But I wonder if this will provide any impetus to development on Vermont. North is not too bad in general so I can see more coming along. South gets seedy but there seems some potential at least down to SC and Expostion.

future_trance011

January 28th, 2013, 09:59 PM

Those poles are up for a reason.
You're not supposed to ride your bike in there.
And if you're gonna crush that, then I want the Denny's crushed too!

That's blasphemous, Milque! :ohno:

The forces of Heaven will not allow that to happen! Denny's is a sacred food establishment (a Valhalla of sorts for party-goers and senior citizens alike)!! Where would we SSCers go for some cheap, convenient...disgustingly delicious (or insipidly bad) Moons Over My Hammy with a side of steaming hot, country fried steak and biscuits w/gravy...especially after a night of stumbling around in a drunken stupor after some excessive partying/debauchery out on the town? Didn't you know the whole point of Denny's very existence is to cater to our gluttonous, self-indulgent whims for good/bad after-party food? Next time you're around a Denny's...please, go grab yourself some golden hash browns and wolf down a pile of mozzarella cheese sticks! And while you're at it... don't be afraid to chow down a Lumberjack Slam at 4 a.m.! That's the only way to go/live. And should you develop a terrible burning sensation (gastroesophageal reflux disease) in your throat/belly as a result of gorging on all that vomit-inducing food??? It's okay, treat it like it's a rite of passage and head on over to the nearest available bathroom stall (so that you can "pray the porcelain"). Ah huh! The Porcelain Goddess awaits you! Do NOT be afraid!! Unleash THYSELf, Milque! She will shine a path of enlightenment your way (and before you can smell the pungent odor of regurgitated, crispy onion rings nipping at your nostrils, wafting from the adjacent stall)...just know that YOU have arrived! Oh, sorry...it doesn't look like Heaven? Welcome to the Darkside, Milque!!!:)

Btw, this Vermont project is indeed quite massive. I'd like to see similarly enormous/dense projects rise on the seedier parts of Vermont as well.