LGV Est: world record exploded

[Mekky II]

The LGV Est, that will connect Paris to Strasbourg in the future, broke the former record of 515,3 km/h establied in 1990. With a new record established this morning *553 km/h*, SNCF and Alstom take advantage of such advertising for their companies but also give a rendez-vous : "See you in april !" SNCF and Alstom have the project to go to 570 km/h with their new technologies. Fans of high speed trains already trust that to go over 600 km/h is possible considering this morning record but president of Alstom temperates "we will not put in danger people working on our project, we will go as far as the technology can." Story to follow in next months.

[CharlieP]

Awesome news.

[The Cebuano Exultor]

Wow! 553 km/hr is fast, indeed! That's probably even faster than the fastest Maglev (Japan's Maglev) in the world.

Btw, how does this compare to Japan's Fastech?

[Coccodrillo]

A Japan maglev train reached 581 km/h.

Anyway maglev can reach these speeds (or little lower) in normal service, while TGV can't.

[Minato ku]

But It is very fast for a conventional train.
Indeed Maglev have no friction, It can run faster with less danger.

[Bitxofo]

Good record, but it is an experiment, not top speed for standard TGV!
;)

[Eastender]

the japanese maglev mlx-01 still holds the record at 581,0 km/h
french tgv-est is second with 553 km/h (515,3 km/h was old record)
third comes germany's transrapid at 501,0 km/h

[yayoo]

But Maglev and Transrapid are not conventionnal trains ... so it has absolutely no sense to compare them with the tgv.

[Karakuri]

A Japan maglev train reached 581 km/h.

Anyway maglev can reach these speeds (or little lower) in normal service, while TGV can't.

Wrong, the maglev is run at approx 400 on commercial use, and the one that reached 581km is a unique model used on an experiment railway in Japan, not on a real commercial railway. Moreover, the Maglev has no wheel, it competes in a different category.
Accept it man, just accept.

[Karakuri]

Good record, but it is an experiment, not top speed for standard TGV!
;)

So what? Experiment is what makes things improve and move forward. Stop minimizing things just because it's not your country's deed.

[gladisimo]

But Maglev and Transrapid are not conventionnal trains ... so it has absolutely no sense to compare them with the tgv.

It does, in the sense that they are all rail transport. It's a broader category, and may affect someone's decision to build one type of rail system over another.

[Mekky II]

Well, if the TGV go over 581 km/h in april, this debate will be closed :crazy2:

But well, it's already nice to see how advanced is Alstom technology in conventionnal trains, more quick that a tilting train and if the record of the maglev is broke, more quick that a supposed advanced technology in railway, even if commercial trains are faster with transrapid technology.

[eomer]

This record in still unofficial: it was only a training session.
Official record will occurs soon.

Making good speed mesurement is not so easy...

[Karakuri]

It does, in the sense that they are all rail transport. It's a broader category, and may affect someone's decision to build one type of rail system over another.

It's like comparing a dragster, a formula one, and a Ferrari. The Ferrari is a piece of shit compared to the two others, but if you have a little good sense...
Let's talk about that in april.

By the way, SNCF (French railway) is currently testing a 360km/h commercial speed, expected for 2012/2015.

[Bitxofo]

So what? Experiment is what makes things improve and move forward. Stop minimizing things just because it's not your country's deed.
I am not minimizing anything!
:nono:
My country has got the high speed record in trains with a diesel locomotive. So?
;)

[Coccodrillo]

Wrong, the maglev is run at approx 400 on commercial use, and the one that reached 581km is a unique model used on an experiment railway in Japan, not on a real commercial railway. Moreover, the Maglev has no wheel, it competes in a different category.
Accept it man, just accept.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transrapid):
Transrapid is a German monorail system using magnetic levitation. Based on a patent from 1934, planning of an actual Transrapid system started in 1969. The test facility for the system in Emsland, Germany was completed in 1987, and on the 17th June 1993 the Transrapid TR-07 vehicle reached a record-breaking speed of 450 kilometers per hour. Today the maximum design speed has exceeded the 500 km/h (310 mph) mark and currently stands at about 550 km/h, with the fastest (and currently the only operational) scheduled passenger service reaching 430 km/h between Longyang Road station and Pudong International Airport in Shanghai, China. The system is developed and marketed by Transrapid International, a joint venture of the German companies Siemens AG and ThyssenKrupp.

[Karakuri]

I am not minimizing anything!
:nono:
My country has got the high speed record in trains with a diesel locomotive. So?
;)

Great. Good for Spain.
See, being proud of your country doesn't mean dissing the rest of the world, that is sheer nationalism and that stinks.

[Douly]

@karakuri. I was a bit like you before. I am still proud of TGV improvements and SCNF speed records, nevertheless I must admit that sncf services are just awefull.
Last year I took a Train from Madrid to BCN (not a talgo, it was a just a sort of commuter train with stops in zaragoza, tarragona ( actually that was the place where I was going). I was simply amazed by the quality of services in those types of trains. Seats are much more confortable, you have more space, TV screens in every wagoon, newspapers for free. Even TGV first class does not offer a third of what was proposed in these trains (and I'd better not compare it to our "Train corail" system (you know what I mean)).
Except for food, things were much better in those trains than in any other train of sncf cie.

Speed is something, quality and services are another. If sncf does not improve its services, it will face a huge problem when the EU railway market will be liberalised.

[Songoten2554]

are there any pics of the new trains that will be running on that route or the route how it will look like and when will they run it????

[Minato ku]

@karakuri. I was a bit like you before. I am still proud of TGV improvements and SCNF speed records, nevertheless I must admit that sncf services are just awefull.
Last year I took a Train from Madrid to BCN (not a talgo, it was a just a sort of commuter train with stops in zaragoza, tarragona ( actually that was the place where I was going). I was simply amazed by the quality of services in those types of trains. Seats are much more confortable, you have more space, TV screens in every wagoon, newspapers for free. Even TGV first class does not offer a third of what was proposed in these trains (and I'd better not compare it to our "Train corail" system (you know what I mean)).
Except for food, things were much better in those trains than in any other train of sncf cie.

Speed is something, quality and services are another. If sncf does not improve its services, it will face a huge problem when the EU railway market will be liberalised.


A lot of train Corail was renovated and become most spacious, confortable and modern than TGV.
SNCF don't like LCD screen :ohno:

[Karakuri]

@karakuri. I was a bit like you before. I am still proud of TGV improvements and SCNF speed records, nevertheless I must admit that sncf services are just awefull.
Last year I took a Train from Madrid to BCN (not a talgo, it was a just a sort of commuter train with stops in zaragoza, tarragona ( actually that was the place where I was going). I was simply amazed by the quality of services in those types of trains. Seats are much more confortable, you have more space, TV screens in every wagoon, newspapers for free. Even TGV first class does not offer a third of what was proposed in these trains (and I'd better not compare it to our "Train corail" system (you know what I mean)).
Except for food, things were much better in those trains than in any other train of sncf cie.

Speed is something, quality and services are another. If sncf does not improve its services, it will face a huge problem when the EU railway market will be liberalised.

Yeah, there are serious punctuality problems with SNCF, too many strikes, all that because it's a national company, they thus have job security whatever they do. About LCD screens, you can ask for them at a special counter before riding the TGV, but if they are not embedded in seats I guess it's by fear of vandalism...

The TGV is made by Alstom, moreover the world record breaking new train is an AGV made without any connection with SNCF. This speed record has nothing to do with SNCF's commercial service quality, which is, I agreed more than 100%, maybe the worst on planet earth. :bash:

[Salif]

They should run a silver and blue TGV duplex to London St Pancras when the CTRL fully opens just to see what it looks like:)

[Minato ku]

Yeah, there are serious punctuality problems with SNCF, too many strikes, all that because it's a national company, they thus have job security whatever they do. About LCD screens, you can ask for them at a special counter before riding the TGV, but if they are not embedded in seats I guess it's by fear of vandalism...

The TGV is made by Alstom, moreover the world record breaking new train is an AGV made without any connection with SNCF. This speed record has nothing to do with SNCF's commercial service quality, which is, I agreed more than 100%, maybe the worst on planet earth. :bash:

Don't exagerate
SNCF service is better than most of world trains compagnies.
It is right comparated at Japanese trains compagnies Sncf is :bash:.

[Karakuri]

Don't exagerate
SNCF service is better than most of world trains compagnies.
It is right comparated at Japanese trains compagnies Sncf is :bash:.

Of course I exagerated. In fact the TGV service is perfect, punctual, clean and fast...but the local train service is... anyway that's not the subject.

[RSG]

Thats is fantastic but I would not feel safe travelling at those speeds along rails. I loved watching the TGVs passing us while driving on the motorways in France. It showed us that driving at 120km/h is not that fast. I did not get to ride in a TGV but I rode the Eurostar and the Thalys which I believe have similar speeds.

[Salif]

Thats is fantastic but I would not feel safe travelling at those speeds along rails. I loved watching the TGVs passing us while driving on the motorways in France. It showed us that driving at 120km/h is not that fast. I did not get to ride in a TGV but I rode the Eurostar and the Thalys which I believe have similar speeds.

It's perfectly safe so don't worry.

Eurostar and Thalys trains are TGV's aswell.

[eomer]

They should run a silver and blue TGV duplex to London St Pancras when the CTRL fully opens just to see what it looks like:)
TGV Duplex are not allowed to cross the channel tunnel with passengers onboard for easy understanding safety raisons. Eurostar are specialy design to cross the chunnel.

[Salif]

TGV Duplex are not allowed to cross the channel tunnel with passengers onboard for easy understanding safety raisons. Eurostar are specialy design to cross the chunnel.

I think it's usually Kent Fire Brigade who have the final say over what can and cannot use the channel tunnel?

Shame really, we'll soon be a proper part of the European high speed railway network. Be nice to actually increase the scope of services that can use the CTRL.

[Metropolitan]

TGV Duplex are not allowed to cross the channel tunnel with passengers onboard for easy understanding safety raisons. Eurostar are specialy design to cross the chunnel.This being said, there are still duplex trains which cross the chunnel everyday, and those are called "le Shuttle" ! You know those on which you put your cars in. They are on 2 levels.

As far as I know, Eurostars aren't faster than shuttle trains inside the tunnel. As such, I don't know for which reason there wouldn't be duplex trains also with the Eurostar!

[yayoo]

I'm not sure but i heard somewhere that Eurostar can go across the channel at 160kph wheras the double decker shuttle is limited at 110kph

[eomer]

As far as I know, Eurostars aren't faster than shuttle trains inside the tunnel. As such, I don't know for which reason there wouldn't be duplex trains also with the Eurostar!
€* are allowed to 160 km/h into the tunnel. Le Shuttle are 120 km/h only.
Using Duplex trains: why not is the futur but existing TGV Duplex could not because:
- Train should be cut by the middle in case of fire.
- Special fire doors must be closed between coachs during tunnel transit.
- Materials should resist more than 15' in case on fire.

[Think1st]

€* are allowed to 160 km/h into the tunnel. Le Shuttle are 120 km/h only.
Using Duplex trains: why not is the futur but existing TGV Duplex could not because:
- Train should be cut by the middle in case of fire.
- Special fire doors must be closed between coachs during tunnel transit.
- Materials should resist more than 15' in case on fire.

I thought in case one locomotive takes fire the second should take the other one out of the tunnel. So why cutting of in the middle? Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Salif]

I thought in case one locomotive takes fire the second should take the other one out of the tunnel. So why cutting of in the middle? Please correct me if I am wrong.

The Eurostar TGV's are made up of two half sets, incase of a fire both half sets can be split and taken out of the tunnel in opposite directions after the fire has been isolated. I believe that one of the on board train managers is qualified to drive the train out of the tunnel.

[yayoo]

New record 5 days ago at 557kph
Video avaliable here:

http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/tgv%2Brecord/video/x1ac4w_tgv-4402

and a second one there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lBjd2Ij8I

And a really cool link for those who wanna all the speed records in video:

http://tgv16orange.free.fr/videos.html

[m@rco]

According to our information, last 13 February, on the new line Paris Strasbourg, a TGV reached, in the neighbourhoods of the km 190 in the direction Strasbourg-Paris, the record speed of 559,4 kph (and not 553 kph as announced in "Le Parisien"). The train was made up of two "boosted" motor coaches and motorized bogies. According to personnel's on board, "one slightly slowed down not to exceed the 560 km/h", speed planned for the next official and approved record.

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualites/societe/20070224.OBS4098/le_tgv_a_5594_kmh.html

True or not ?

[CharlieP]

New record 5 days ago at 557kph
Video avaliable here:

http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/search/tgv%2Brecord/video/x1ac4w_tgv-4402

and a second one there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6lBjd2Ij8I

And a really cool link for those who wanna all the speed records in video:

http://tgv16orange.free.fr/videos.html

Sweet! Why is it going the wrong way down the line? :)

[yayoo]

@ M@rco: Problably True as I read somewhere that the ingeneers said that going over 580kph may not be a problem.. so wait & see..

@ CharlieP: Actually these are just tests, and the line is not in service, so trains can run on both tracks, no matter if they are going the right or wrong way :)

[CharlieP]

Actually, come to think of it, the rail speed record set in the UK last year on the Channel Tunnel Rail Link was also done by a train going the "wrong way" :)

[Coccodrillo]

On most modern railway lines going on the right or the left side is indifferent. Sometimes they can also be used by two trains in each direction. But usually they are used on the "traditional" side (for example, on the left in UK, France, Switzerland, Italy, or on the right in Germany, Austria, Spain).

[eomer]

@ M@rco: Problably True as I read somewhere that the ingeneers said that going over 580kph may not be a problem.. so wait & see..

560 km/h would be great.
580 km/h....hum, hum. I don't know.
600 km/h: in the futur maybe.

[Facial]

Amazing what they can still do with conventional rails.

Do the trucks still have monoblock wheels?

[yayoo]

If u wanna see the colours of the new tgv for the future record (officialy April 4th) check out this link (in french)

http://tf1.lci.fr/infos/economie/entreprises/0,,3420714,00-tgv-prepare-pour-nouveau-record-.html

268 Tons, 26000 hp, top speed for the record between 340 and 370 mph

The video will be availiable only for a couple of days ^^

[Vapour]

Nice livery ^ ^

[yayoo]

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/7629/07062311280270tgv4402pasa4.jpg


http://www.sncf.fr/actu/swf/actuV150Video.swf

[Bitxofo]

^^Nice double decker TGV and original livery!
:happy:

[yayoo]

Taken on the eastern line today, with a new test run at 568,1 kph

http://gaston.choquert.free.fr/photos/4402-km262-29032007_53.jpg

(picture taken on a french forum)

And here is a run with a jet (actually that's a test to film the performance from a plane because helicopters are really too slow)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1kqoq_4402-meuse

[ZZ-II]

wow, 568 :eek:

[TRZ]

Responding to the Fastech question, their top speed in commercial service is a little over 400km/h along certain portions of the JR East Shinkansen Lines (does not include Tokaido, which is run by JR Central), with commercial speed sitting around 370 I believe.

People should not write off the MLX-01 in Japan (run by JR Central) as an experimental model. While it is technically a test track now, the current test track will become incorporated into the next-generation Shinkansen as a relief line for the current Tokaido (which is funny, since the Tokaido was a relief line for its conventional narrow-gauge predecessor). That test track will not be a test track forever, it will be extended to Shinjuku in the east and Nagoya and Osaka in the west. Track alignment will be very different from the existing Tokaido Shinkansen, as the next-gen will arc close to the Sea of Japan on its way to Nagoya.

That said, if the TGV can break 600km/h, this still cannot be done on normal operations. The maglev hits between 550-600 on a regular basis, not mere "special test runs". A record is useless if it has no practical applications in the real world. Maglev's 550+ speeds can be used in commercial operation, TGV's can't.

[Coccodrillo]

^^ True, except that HSL trains (except Shanghai's maglev) today does not exceed 320 km/h in normal service.

[Trainman Dave]

Responding to the Fastech question, their top speed in commercial service is a little over 400km/h along certain portions of the JR East Shinkansen Lines (does not include Tokaido, which is run by JR Central), with commercial speed sitting around 370 I believe..

http://www.futura-sciences.com/sinformer/b/news221b.php
Translated by Google:
"JR East, Japanese railway company, presented this morning [27/06/2005]the prototype of new Shinkansen (high-speed train) which could become the fastest train of the world with a speed of 360 km/h in mode of commercial exploitation. Fastech 360S would thus exceed the French TGV which can currently run to 300 km/h. The development of this supposed train capacity to exceed 400 km/h should last until 2008, the commercial exploitation not being envisaged before 2011 on a new railway in the course of construction. "


This is the best description I could find of the Fastech 360S which has not yet been built. It is the latest in a long series of experimental trains which have been built and tested in Japan to improve the technology of high speed trains. So far none of them has entered service running faster than 300km/h and the current speed limit on the JR East Tohoku line is 275 km/h. The Japanese may try to recapture the world speed record with the Fastech 360s in 2008/09 when this prototype is built.

[Trainman Dave]

^^ True, except that HSL trains (except Shanghai's maglev) today does not exceed 320 km/h in normal service.

Does the Shanghai maglev really achieve 320 km/h in normal service over less than 100 km of maglev track?

[gincan]

Does the Shanghai maglev really achieve 320 km/h in normal service over less than 100 km of maglev track?

Of cause, its top speed is 430 along the 30 km track. It has a design top speed of 550 (Commercial 500) but the track in shanghai is to short.

[Karakuri]

Responding to the Fastech question, their top speed in commercial service is a little over 400km/h along certain portions of the JR East Shinkansen Lines (does not include Tokaido, which is run by JR Central), with commercial speed sitting around 370 I believe.

People should not write off the MLX-01 in Japan (run by JR Central) as an experimental model. While it is technically a test track now, the current test track will become incorporated into the next-generation Shinkansen as a relief line for the current Tokaido (which is funny, since the Tokaido was a relief line for its conventional narrow-gauge predecessor). That test track will not be a test track forever, it will be extended to Shinjuku in the east and Nagoya and Osaka in the west. Track alignment will be very different from the existing Tokaido Shinkansen, as the next-gen will arc close to the Sea of Japan on its way to Nagoya.

That said, if the TGV can break 600km/h, this still cannot be done on normal operations. The maglev hits between 550-600 on a regular basis, not mere "special test runs". A record is useless if it has no practical applications in the real world. Maglev's 550+ speeds can be used in commercial operation, TGV's can't.

Japanese Shinkansens NEVER exceed 300kph, I don't know where you got that 400kph thing...
Anyway, the TGV record is obviously not intended to make people think it will run this speed on commercial use. It's just meant to prove how far high speed train technology has gone. It also prove that in a near future, top commercial speed will be pushed over 320 (Paris - Strasbourg).

[TRZ]

This is the best description I could find of the Fastech 360S which has not yet been built.

The Fastech has been built, and testing is mostly complete, thus they have been approved to enter service for next year.

Japanese Shinkansens NEVER exceed 300kph, I don't know where you got that 400kph thing...It is the Fastech that goes just past 400. Fastech has not yet entered revenue service. Japanese Shinkansen on JR East lines will exceed 300km/h and on occasion even hit 400km/h next year.

[Facial]

The maglev hits between 550-600 on a regular basis

Then why is the world record for maglev within this range?

[Momo1435]

^^
Maybe because there isn't a maglev track that's long enough to go faster?

[hix]

I've read that the world record on the eastern line costed 30.000.000 euros. I have difficulty beleaving this. Is there somebody who knows more about this? 30 milion is extremely much for one train-ride! Maybe the journalist was confused somewhere?

[Karakuri]

The Fastech has been built, and testing is mostly complete, thus they have been approved to enter service for next year.

It is the Fastech that goes just past 400. Fastech has not yet entered revenue service. Japanese Shinkansen on JR East lines will exceed 300km/h and on occasion even hit 400km/h next year.

And cars will be flying by 2067.

[TRZ]

And cars will be flying by 2067.

Hey, the source is from JR East, if you have a problem with it, take it up with them. If JR East says that it will be running its ***est model train at a commercial speed of 360 or so and with a max speed over 400 in some segments of the line by next year, then it is hard to argue since nobody else would know better - especially not you.

[TRZ]

Then why is the world record for maglev within this range?

The ongoing testing is for reasons other than speed. The limiting factor preventing it from breaking the 600 mark is air resistance. Otherwise, 550 or so is its regular speed. And it is reached without destroying the infrastructure, unlike the TGV, which totally destroys tracks at 500km/h (BEHOLD THE POWER OF FRICTION, BWAHAHAHA). Other problems they encounter are noise control. Once you start going faster than three- or four-hundred kilometers, the air friction gets noisy, especially at tunnel entrances. There is also the issue of passing trains in the opposite direction - a passing speed of over 1100km/h (~550 + ~550 = ~1100). These are all problems that need to be addressed. While maintaining the speeds is not an issue, and passenger safety is pretty much all good as the live passenger tests have been going on for a year and a half now, the remaining problems are more along the lines of integrating into the built environment. You can't have trains sending sonic booms to every ******** it passes on route. This is what the ongoing tests are for, because JR Central knows that people will complain a lot about these things, as they have encountered similar back in the JNR days with the San'you Shinkansen (which was constructed differently than the Toukaidou and thus had *** problems to solve). Apart from those environmental issues, the MLX-01's technology is already verified as safe and ready for commercial use, but there is actually no funding for the construction of a *** next-gen Shinkansen.

[TRZ]

I've read that the world record on the eastern line costed 30.000.000 euros. I have difficulty beleaving this. Is there somebody who knows more about this? 30 milion is extremely much for one train-ride! Maybe the journalist was confused somewhere?

Track repairs. 550km/h for a conventional train is some painful friction the infrastructure was never designed to take. Tracks and overhead wires are destroyed.

[Karakuri]

Track repairs. 550km/h for a conventional train is some painful friction the infrastructure was never designed to take. Tracks and overhead wires are destroyed.

??? What the hell is this nonsense? If tracks and wires are destroyed, then it means that the TGV flies too :banana: , and that it runs by coal power?

The Eastern TGV line is brand ***, it already cost millions and took 7 years to build, you realy think they are going to screw it?
If this record costs money, it's because it requires engineering, lightening of the train, *** motors....

[hix]

Is it possible to build tracks that can take such a speed? What is the use of spending so much money. I hope it's not only to get into the guinness book of records. There are cheaper ways to do that.

[Jean Luc]

The TGV uses articulated bogies between carriages to minimise sway and prevent jack-knifing in the event of a derailment, and it works quite well from what I know. However, the German ICE, Italian ETR500 and Japanese Shinkansen don't use this method to main stability between carriages. What methods do they employ instead?

[TRZ]

The TGV uses articulated bogies between carriages to minimise sway and prevent jack-knifing in the event of a derailment, and it works quite well from what I know. However, the German ICE, Italian ETR500 and Japanese Shinkansen don't use this method to main stability between carriages. What methods do they employ instead?

From Japanese Railway Technology Today by Railway Technical Research Institute and East Japan Railway Culture Foundation, chapter 3; Shinkansen Bogies, pp. 35-36

-Incorporated springs and oil dampers in bodie suspension, significantly reducing vibration
-Mounted traction motor on bogie frame instead of using nose suspension system and also used parallel cardan drie system to transmit power to wheelset via flexible couplings and gears, greatly reducing bogie weight, in turn permitting faster speeds on shinkansen and other electric trains.
-Adopted press-welded structure fro bogie frames, reducing frame weight considerably.
-Introduced disk brakes, increasing braking power, in turn permitting faster speeds

(snip)

Graded Wheel Tread Gradient

(snip)

The circular configuration which is shaped like a large number of arcs aligned next to each other, supposes a wheel tread that has already been subjected to wear. This configuration reduces contact bearing forces between the wheel tread and the running surface of the rail. This means less wheel tread wear, which in turn means that better running performance is kept for longer periods of time. The effective gradient of shinkansen circular weheel treads is about 1:16, which meets demands for both stability at high speeds and excelling running performance on curved track.



That is just the beginning of the chapter, it gets into a fair amount of detail. The book can be purchased from www.jrtr.net.

[TRZ]

??? What the hell is this nonsense? If tracks and wires are destroyed, then it means that the TGV flies too :banana: , and that it runs by coal power?

The Eastern TGV line is brand ***, it already cost millions and took 7 years to build, you realy think they are going to screw it?
If this record costs money, it's because it requires engineering, lightening of the train, *** motors....

You're an ignoramus, yes it can get damaged. However, LGV has apparently addressed the issues of the past tests, which I was not aware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGV_construction
The quality of construction was put to the test in particular during the TGV world speed record runs on the LGV Atlantique; the track was used at over 500 km/h (310 mph) without suffering significant damage. This contrasts with previous French world rail speed record attempts which resulted in severe deformation of the track.

[m@rco]

It also prove that in a near future, top commercial speed will be pushed over 320 (Paris - Strasbourg).
Since 2001, the TGV runs at 320kph during 40km between Avignon and Aix en Provence... ;)

[steph35]

You're an ignoramus, yes it can get damaged. However, LGV has apparently addressed the issues of the past tests, which I was not aware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGV_construction
This contrasts with previous French world rail speed record attempts which resulted in severe deformation of the track.
:lol:

first : wikipedia UK is not really what we can call a source as regards TGV and LGV in france...

second : the only damages on a track caused by a high speed record in france, have been endured in the end 50's begin 60's when the speed have been pushed on top 300~350 kph

third : those superstructures that are the LGV cost lot of money, so don't take the french for silly men, all the top speed test were made with maximum security for the people in the train that saved the record, and for the superstructure that are and will be used to commercial exploitation...

sncf, alstom and rff take no risk just to beat their own record... ;)

[hix]

:lol:

first : wikipedia UK is not really what we can call a source as regards TGV and LGV in france...

second : the only damages on a track caused by a high speed record in france, have been endured in the end 50's begin 60's when the speed have been pushed on top 300~350 kph

third : those superstructures that are the LGV cost lot of money, so don't take the french for silly men, all the top speed test were made with maximum security for the people in the train that saved the record, and for the superstructure that are and will be used to commercial exploitation...

sncf, alstom and rff take no risk just to beat their own record... ;)

But, I still don't understand why it's so expensive to beat this record. (30.000.000 euro's)

[steph35]

it's the cost of the special TGV that will explode the record, and all technologies shiped in.

as jean luc said, the TGV uses articulated bogies between carriages, it is propulsed with two locomotive on each extremities.
the TGV that will beat its own record is a new generation, those articulated bogies between carriage are now motorized, that give more power and use less energy

the 30.000.000 € are the cost of this new train and the cost of energy (electric, human, etc) for this record... the objective of this record is to prove that this technology is now effective... because during the period 2010-2020, sncf will renewed its 500 TGV... alstom has to prove that its technology is always the best...

[m@rco]

I know this train is not fully new but, for instance, the price of a TGV classic was 15M. euros and a TGV Duplex between 24 and 28M. euros...

[hix]

^^ So the investments they did will be used later. In the Belgium newspapers they said the 30.000.000 was only for the ride. If they build a complete new train with this money it's not only for a record attempt. I suppose they will try to build a new and superfast train based on this technology? Do you think it will be possible to reach these speeds in commercial service?

[steph35]

So the investments they did will be used later
yes probably, as for the TGV that had the record of 515.3kph is used as a normal TGV

In the Belgium newspapers they said the 30.000.000 was only for the ride. If they build a complete new train with this money it's not only for a record attempt.
this TGV is in a record configuration, 2 locomotives and 3 passengers cars (full of computer for this record)... but after this ride this TGV can be configure for a commercial exploitation, with 2 locomotives and 8 or 10 passengers cars...

I suppose they will try to build a new and superfast train based on this technology? Do you think it will be possible to reach these speeds in commercial service?
this TGV call AGV is a new technology, no other train used or actually use it
the commercial speed of the future AGV, if SNCF buy it, will be 350kph...
...580kph commercial speed, probably during the next century :D

[Phil]

What costed 30 million euros is the several months of test ride, measures, preparation of the train, etc; not just Tomorrow's ride on TV.

[Karakuri]

Since 2001, the TGV runs at 320kph during 40km between Avignon and Aix en Provence... ;)

That's right but what I meant is that in 2009 commercial speed of the new generation TGV called AGV will be 350kph.

[Minato ku]

It is 350 Kph :)

[Karakuri]

It is 350 Kph :)

My bad! Of course, I corrected.

[Facial]

Do the (bogies) still have monoblock wheels?

Does anyone knowabout this still? I'm going venture a guess and say yes the technology still uses monoblock wheels (that is, the axle+2wheel pair is a single block of steel)

[steph35]

^^
is this answer to your question?
the bogies are motorized on the V150

http://www.transport.alstom.com/home/news/Hot_events/v150/trainset/_files/file_28913_58577.jpg
www.transport.alstom.com (http://www.transport.alstom.com/home/news/Hot_events/v150/trainset/28913.FR.php?languageId=FR&dir=/home/news/Hot_events/v150/trainset/)

[Trainman Dave]

Hey, the source is from JR East, if you have a problem with it, take it up with them. If JR East says that it will be running its ***est model train at a commercial speed of 360 or so and with a max speed over 400 in some segments of the line by next year, then it is hard to argue since nobody else would know better - especially not you.

I finally found the discussion of the Fastech 360S on the JR East web site. It confirmed that the 360S is a simple prototype for a future comercial specification and the timetable was extremely vague. The specification, not the commercail units, might be available in 2008. The 405 km/h tesing of this prototype is about the equivalent of the 550+ km/p testing of the French AGV on the LGV-est. Both sets of tests are designed to verify new technologies prior to commercial specifications for operational trains. Historically it has taken 5 to 10 years for the comercial implementation of the new technologies on Japan's Shinkansen trains.

The most interesting part of the 360S is that it actually has two different nose shapes, one at each end to test noise suppression and it has some active tilt technology to reduce the vibrations at higher speeds. Other technologies being tested are three different types of boogie, at least two variations on the pantographs, durable breaking technologies and ice suppression technologies which will be essential when they reach Hokaido.

[Karakuri]

574,8 km/h !!!!!!!!!!!
The record has just been broken. :banana:

[saônant]

:cheer: :cheers:

[calenzano]

574,8 Kph

[Minato ku]

And now it is official :)

[ChrisZwolle]

It was cool to watch :)

[steph35]

a link to the video of the record, from TV france2/dailymotion

record AGV 574,8 km/h (http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/record%2Btgv/video/x1m66m_record-vitesse-tgv-5748-kmh)

[juanico]

WOW! :nuts:

[CharlieP]

Awesome stuff. It's a shame they couldn't have found the extra 7km/h and beaten the Maglev record speed too!

[SkyLerm]

OMG impressive video, thx for sharing!! :cheers:

[big-dog]

I just watched this news on TV, it's amazing. running as fast as a airplane on the ground, wowwwwwwwwwwww!

[LocksRocks]

Well Done to the French, a fantastic job.
I just hope that when the phase two of the CTRL is completed and people in the see just how impressive these machines are the money will be invested expanding a greater TGV based network in the UK.

[poponoso]

Amazing speed, and so close to the Maglev record...

[Substructure]

Congratulations ! Well done :)

[ZZ-II]

must be an breathtaking feeling to be in the train at this speed

[dreaad]

here is the official site

http://www.record2007.com/site/index_en.php

[Brice]

574,7 kph !!!!!!!!!!!
The record has just been broken. :banana:


we say km/h, kph is not correct

[Bitxofo]

Congratulations!
:dance:

MAGLEV train record is 581km/h.
;)

[big-dog]

Congratulations!
:dance:

MAGLEV train record is 581km/h.
;)


Why didn't the conductor put a bit more gas and break the maglev record yesterday? :lol: 574 is so close to 581km/h

[Douly]

Congrats!!

[Blue Viking]

Vive la France!!! Beautiful work! :)

[Karakuri]

Congratulations!
:dance:

MAGLEV train record is 581km/h.
;)

And planes can do mach 2.5 ;)

[Vapour]

That was fast!

[gladisimo]

space shuttles go even faster O.o

[Karakuri]

space shuttles go even faster O.o

Damn! You're right!

[eomer]

space shuttles go even faster O.o
That's right but if you want to go from Paris to Strasbourg...

[yayoo]

Fantastic video Here, the speed and the sound (plane & Tgv at the same time) are incredible!!

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/tgv%2Brecord/video/x1mb99_tgv-new-world-speed-record

[steph35]

thanks for the link, very impressive !!
the sound of the train is really incredible

[Bitxofo]

Why didn't the conductor put a bit more gas and break the maglev record yesterday? :lol: 574 is so close to 581km/h
Yeah, I wonder the same!
:yes:

[Metropolitan]

I don't believe it makes such a difference if the record would have been 582 km/h rather than 574 km/h. What Alsthom wanted to prove was simply that high speed rail was still competitive and had still room for development compared with the maglev technology.

We have trains running at 320 km/h in commercial use everyday in France. Granted it's slower than the maglev, but high speed rail remains cheaper to build and to maintain than maglev does. At such a speed, a high speed rail line between San Diego, LA and San Francisco could be competitive against airplanes.

[Karakuri]

I don't believe it makes such a difference if the record would have been 582 km/h rather than 574 km/h. What Alsthom wanted to prove was simply that high speed rail was still competitive and had still room for development compared with the maglev technology.

We have trains running at 320 km/h in commercial use everyday in France. Granted it's slower than the maglev, but high speed rail remains cheaper to build and to maintain than maglev does. At such a speed, a high speed rail line between San Diego, LA and San Francisco could be competitive against airplanes.

Exactly. Moreover, the new Alstom AGV High Speed Train is already designed for 350km/h in commercial use, which may sound to make not so much difference in European countries, but which may be quite important at the US or Chinese scale.

[TRZ]

We have trains running at 320 km/h in commercial use everyday in France. Granted it's slower than the maglev, but high speed rail remains cheaper to build and to maintain than maglev does. At such a speed, a high speed rail line between San Diego, LA and San Francisco could be competitive against airplanes.

Maglev is more expensive to build, but cheaper to maintain (at ~300km/h). This is maglev's strongest point, not its speed.

[ZZ-II]

we say km/h, kph is not correct

that's the same ^^

[Brice]

Nein

[TRZ]

Nein

^^Ja. It is the same. km/h is more widely used, but kph is still understood. It is like pphpd where they also use "p" for "per", hence kph is acceptable.

[Minato ku]

I would find the picture of the HQ of the SNCF with this. :)
http://irgendwo.free.fr/est/21.jpg

HQ of SNCF
http://archiguide.free.fr/PH/FRA/Par/P14SNCFMasRou.jpg

[CharlieP]

^^Ja. It is the same. km/h is more widely used, but kph is still understood. It is like pphpd where they also use "p" for "per", hence kph is acceptable.

"kph" is not acceptable - first of all the symbol for kilometres is km, not k, and secondly, SI units[1] should be written with a / or a negative exponent.

[1] km/h are not part of SI, but accepted for use in it.

[odegaard]

Maglev is more expensive to build, but cheaper to maintain (at ~300km/h). This is maglev's strongest point, not its speed.says who? where's the proof?

Unfortunately TRZ there's not that much public data available to prove that maintenance expenses for maglev systems are cheaper.

However putting that aside lets ask ourselves why would a maglev system be cheaper to maintain? Is it because there is no friction?

NOTHING lasts forever, even something that is not subjected to friction. The electromagnets on a maglev line would eventually degrade through other factors like weather and heat generation. If it's superconducting then there's a complex cooling system that has to be maintained and that can't be cheap.

Furthermore I'd like to point out there are STRESSES placed on the system. Even though there are no wheels the weight of the maglev train still gets transfered to the line via electromagnetic forces. However the weight would be more evenly distributed throughout the length of the train and not concentrated at wheel to rail contact points like a conventional train. This may be more advantageous from a structural perspective but those stress forces still exist.

Secondly A maglev line must be very accurately "aligned". I'm going to assume this alignment must be monitored regularly and re-adjusted when necessary to stay within tolerances.

Sorry TRZ I have yet to see conclusive proof...so the verdict is still out. My gut tells me a maglev system is not something that can be built, then ignored and assumed to function properly perpetually simply because there is no friction. It still needs "attention" and that costs money.

my 2 cents...feel free to disagree :cheers:

[Brice]

^^Ja. It is the same. km/h is more widely used, but kph is still understood. It is like pphpd where they also use "p" for "per", hence kph is acceptable.


kph is not an abbreviation of the international system SI. It is nothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Km/h

[C-Beam]

this TGV call AGV is a new technology, no other train used or actually use it

What is new about it?

[Facial]

I suspect it's something new with the suspension; Hunting oscillations are a killer.

[Jean Luc]

The AGV is an EMU (electric multiple unit). That is, it has traction motors distributed along the length of the train mounted on the bogies, like the Japanese Shinkansen. The existing TGV has power cars at each end, with usually only the first bogies on the adjacent passenger carriages powered as well, and hence is not an EMU.

Check out:
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/frenchtgv (scroll down to rolling stock)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotrice_%C3%A0_grande_vitesse