Wen: China to speed up Pan-Asian rail link
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2007-01-15 08:49

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao said yesterday China will accelerate construction of the Chinese section of the Kunming-Singapore Rail Link, also known as the Pan-Asian railway network.
Addressing the 10th ASEAN-China Summit in Cebu, the Philippines, Wen said China proposes that a strategic plan on China-ASEAN transport cooperation in the next 10 to 15 years be formulated to facilitate coordinated development of regional transport, improve integrated transport networks, and facilitate communication and transport in the region.

China and 17 other countries, many of them members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, signed an inter-governmental pact last November to build a Pan-Asian railway network, which would include an 81,000-kilometer-long network that would link four key railways in different parts of Asia.

One of the railways is the China-ASEAN link with three separate lines linking Myanmar, Vietnam and Laos with China. The rail will go on to Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore, and will be 5,500 kilometers long in total.

With its expected completion by 2015, the rail link will play a key role in pushing forward regional economic cooperation and integration.

China has already started construction of the eastern line of the rail link from Kunming to the Vietnamese border and it is investing 50 billion yuan (US$6.25 billion) to build a total of three lines in Yunnan Province to link them with Laos and Myanmar besides Vietnam.

Leaders of China and the 10 ASEAN countries pledged to build the Singapore-Kunming Rail Link when they attended the China-ASEAN Commemorative Summit celebrating the 15th anniversary of China-ASEAN dialogue relations in Nanning, Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region, in October.

*SKRL - Singapore Kunming Railroad

Map of SKRL:

http://xs312.xs.to/xs312/07082/SKRL.jpg

Table 1.2 Route Compositions by Country of SKRL*

Country Route Length (Km)
Thailand Bangkok – Aranyaprathet 200
Cambodia Poipet – Sisophon – Phnom Penh 48 + 352 = 400
Cambodia Phnom Penh – Loc Ninh 300
Vietnam Loc Ninh – Ho Chi Min – Hanoi – Lao Cai 150 + 2000 = 2150
China Hekou – Kunming 350
Lao PDR Vientiane – Thakhek –Mu Da- Tan Ap 466 + 53 = 519
Thailand Three Pagoda Pass – Nam Tok 150
Myanmar Three Pagoda Pass – Mawlamyine 116

Table 1.3 Missing Links and Spur Lines of Selected SKRL Route Configuration

Missing and Spur Lines Country Involved Distance (km)
Poipet - Sisophon Cambodia 48
Phnom Penh – Loc Ninh Cambodia 286
Loc Ninh – Ho Chi Minh Vietnam 149
Ho Chi Minh – Vung Tau Vietnam 75
Three Pagoda Pass – Mawlamyine Myanmar 116
Nam Tok – Three Pagoda Pass Thailand 153
Vientiane – Thakkek – Mu Da Lao PDR 466
Mu Da – Tan Ap Vietnam 53

Source: aseansec.org, feasibility study

Above information is based on a year 2005 figures & statistics. Latest progress shows that China is trying to build a standard guage railroad to Vietnam's border (current one is narrow guage from Kunming to Honoi, which is not suitable for the fast development and exist some safey issues, and I heard that the narrow guage railroad had stopped the service), besides Vietnam, there will be two more lines connect with Myanmar and Laos.

This plan shows that the city of Kunming will recover its glory on 20th century around 1920's, China's first metropolitan city in Southeast Asia.

Yes, it looks like this could be very good for Kunming.

The map above misses a very important recently opened line from Kunming to Nanning (due east) which is a major hub.

The Kunming-Hekou/Lao Cai railway (narrow gauge) hasn't been running for about two years now, I think. It was damaged by mudslides, and they decided just to upgrade it completely.

Vietnam is the big problem... The section of track from Hanoi to Hekou/Lao Cai is a single track narrow gauge, with no significant upgrades or investment since the 1930s... they have begun restoring the bridges, but it will remain narrow gauge. The fastest trip is 8hrs. for ca. 200km. Nevertheless, this is the busiest line in the whole system in Vietnam.

As far as Hanoi-Saigon... hm, that's narrow gauge one track as well, takes 38 hours on the fastest train.

Myanmar has some good track... The line in Cambodia from PP to the coast no longer has passanger traffic, just some fuel cargo from time to time.

This is what I've dreamt about, even decades ago! Drawn maps of! 1960s!

I won't trivialize my posting by adding dancing bananas.

I"d like to travel this route.

Vietnam is the big problem... The section of track from Hanoi to Hekou/Lao Cai is a single track narrow gauge, with no significant upgrades or investment since the 1930s... they have begun restoring the bridges, but it will remain narrow gauge. The fastest trip is 8hrs. for ca. 200km. Nevertheless, this is the busiest line in the whole system in Vietnam.

As far as Hanoi-Saigon... hm, that's narrow gauge one track as well, takes 38 hours on the fastest train.



Didn't I read on this site recently that a high-speed rail link would be built between Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=439286)?

Interesting to see the 'Death Railway' will be re-opened by the look of it... I've travelled as far as The River Kwai on it, it seemed such a terrible waste of life that much of the route built during WW2 is abandoned. If anyone ever gets the chance, the 'Death railway Museum' in Kanchanburi is well worth a visit. Overlooking the immaculate POW cemetary as it does its quite a moving experience.

I know that Singapore / Malaysia / Thailand is all the same gauge (1m?) from having taken the train from Singapore to Bangkok, but what about the rest? What are relations like between Myanmar and Thailand / China?

Great prospect though... it opens up the possibility of taking a train from Wick (Scotland) to Singapore (okay, with a gauge change or two) :eek:

Will it be high-speed rail or just normal rail?

Will it be high-speed rail or just normal rail?

I presume 'normal'... I believe Malaysia have upgraded sections of their route to double-track electrified HSR, but most of the route is 1m gauge single-track, and in sections (like Cambodia) in an awful state. The journey from Singapore to Bangkok took us 3 days / 2 nights and involved a lot of dawdling and stopping to allow trains to pass etc. I can't see anyone finding the money to double / upgrade the entire route... It would cost billions.

This route is never going to compete with passenger air travel, but it would obviously be a very useful freight link.

I presume 'normal'... I believe Malaysia have upgraded sections of their route to double-track electrified HSR, but most of the route is 1m gauge single-track, and in sections (like Cambodia) in an awful state. The journey from Singapore to Bangkok took us 3 days / 2 nights and involved a lot of dawdling and stopping to allow trains to pass etc. I can't see anyone finding the money to double / upgrade the entire route... It would cost billions.

This route is never going to compete with passenger air travel, but it would obviously be a very useful freight link.

The Singapore-Bangkok route runs a luxury tourist train.

The Singapore-Bangkok route runs a luxury tourist train.

That's what I was on :)

Well, I didn't get further than Johore Bahru .... and I think it was a different train. Had to get out of the train, wallow through customs, then get back on the same train at "Woodlands", and on the way back no-one would deal with us until about two minutes before the train arrived.

Since I like to have things organized well in advance, turning up at the station and being told I couldn't book a ticket for tomorrow didn't go down very well. And a return ticket? Across an international border? No Way.

My Singaporean partner had her own slant on why we suffered this. Anyway, I'll try again.

Well, I didn't get further than Johore Bahru .... and I think it was a different train. Had to get out of the train, wallow through customs, then get back on the same train at "Woodlands", and on the way back no-one would deal with us until about two minutes before the train arrived.

Since I like to have things organized well in advance, turning up at the station and being told I couldn't book a ticket for tomorrow didn't go down very well. And a return ticket? Across an international border? No Way.

My Singaporean partner had her own slant on why we suffered this. Anyway, I'll try again.


Yes it was a novel experience going through immigration whilst on a train... You get to Johor Bahru, everyone files off, walks though immigration, and files back on again... It feels like a complete waste of time!

At the Malaysia - Thailand border they just took our passports off us the evening before and gave them back to us in the morning with our stamps in them... Much less hassle.

I think that there will be an agreement between China and southeast Asian countries on visa exempt measures.

Cambodia seeks finances for Singapore-Kunming rail link

SEPANG: Cambodia hopes that Asean can resolve financing problems plaguing the long proposed Singapore-Kunming Rail Link project, which is estimated to cost US$1.8bil (RM6.6bil).

This includes finding private sector parties willing to undertake the mammoth project spanning seven countries, Cambodia's Commerce Minister Cham Prasidh said.

He also called on his Asean counterparts to use the Kuala Lumpur meeting to also resolve the two missing links – 48km in Cambodia and 210km from Cambodia to Vietnam – of the ambitious rail project.


OVERDUE PROJECT: Filepicture shows delegates from China, Thailand and Singapore attending the second special working group meeting on the Singapore-Kunming Rail Link in 1997.
“I hope that if we can find enough financing for these two links. I believe not later than five years, we will be able to take a train from Singapore to Kuala Lumpur and go up to China,” he said upon his arrival at the Kuala Lumpur International Airport for the 38th Asean Economic Ministers (AEM) meeting.

Prasidh said he hoped that during the Asean Mekong Basin Development Cooperation (AMBDC) meeting on Aug 26, countries could be found to provide financing for this project.

“We are quite grateful to Malaysia which offiered used rails and fasteners to Cambodia Rail for the construction of the 48km-missing link section of the Sisophon-Poiphet railway, which forms part of the Singapore-Kunming Railway Link project,” said Prasidh.

“If we can realise this project, it is going to be the first time that all countries involved will be linked by railways, thus speeding up the distribution of goods compared to transporting them by sea or roads,” he added.

The AMBDC took off in 1996 within the grouping to enhance economically sound and sustainable development of the sub-region, but funding remains a problem.

For instance, the Singapore-Kunming Railway Link project still needs more funds to finance the rail route that spans seven countries covering Malaysia, Singapore, Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar.

Up to 55 AMBDC projects costing about US$183mil (RM671mil) were identified for implementation but only 31 projects valued at US$11 mil (RM40mil) have been implemented or are at various stages of implementation.

According to Prasidh, the AMBDC is very important to support the development process of the Mekong Basin sub-region within Asean.

“Of course, there were countries that showed less interest in this project but Malaysia, China and Thailand have played an important role in supporting and assisting towards its implementation,” he said.

Malaysia has taken the lead role since 1996 by undertaking the US$533,000 (RM1.9mil) feasibility study and hosting the Singapore-Kunming Railway Link regional secretariat for three years since 2004. –Bernama

The map above doesn't make sense. If you're going to build a line to Vientaine, then effectively there is a shorter alternative link to Bangkok and Singapore via Vientaine. The route through HCMC would serve as a detour.

The map above doesn't make sense. If you're going to build a line to Vientaine, then effectively there is a shorter alternative link to Bangkok and Singapore via Vientaine. The route through HCMC would serve as a detour.

True: but the Vientiane line goes over the mountains; the HCMC line goes around them. and, there's lot's more going on in Vietnam than Laos.

The above route map is not a detailed complete one.
Hope this one can explain a more complete detailed routes and sourrounding areas of Kunming - Singapore railroad project:

http://xs413.xs.to/xs413/07104/SoutheastAsia.gif

Sorry to give this thread such a massive (4-year) bump, but any news on these developments, or directions as to where I could find any?

There was a discussion in a Chinese HSR thread that was off-topic there, but should be right on topic here, beginning with:I absolutely agree, Ürümqi-Almaty would be relatively "low-hanging fruit", with nice extension possibilities, it makes a lot more sense to do this one (first) than Ürümqi-Astana. But if I were to make Ürümqi-Astana I wouldn't let the line go through Almaty

I was curious and made a rough map (https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=216267537660164301709.0004d9358a1285ed55394) of Lanzhou-Ürümqi, and because of this discussion I added the Y-branches and extended them to Moscow and Tehran. That's wild fantasy of course, but it visualises what I mean. (It's not made with great attention to details, if you want to correct it, feel free.)

Also the route Lanzhou-Ürümqi seems spectacular, and should be attractive just for the tourism of it (or train one way and plane the other to save time), the parts not in a tunnel anyway.

Some more from that thread:
I have been wanting to travel this route for a while now so it's all interesting. I believe Azerbaijan is planning a high speed route through to Turkey so I might take that route, although for trade the Caspian sea would ruin that route, but I'd take a boat across. Tehran would be my other preferred route but not under the current political situation.

I think I made the map open for anyone to edit. Google maps can sometimes be very frustrating to edit, but at least it is straightforward. Click "EDIT" and then drag the lines where you want them, or in this case add extra line(s) with the line tool (the zig-zag line button).

(I used an extra trick to make great lines for Moscow, for the Earth's curvature. It looks curved on the map, but what would be a straight line on the map would actually be longer in reality.)

Since 75% of my drawing time is doing "uh, where is this town?" lookups, I am sure someone who knows the area would do it better and quicker.

As you said Novosibirsk should be doing well, except for the fact that Russia is wary of Chinese trade and investment, and Western Russia is too far away.

In any case this seems moot. Kazakhstan is building a new line between Astana and Almaty, with the goal of being finished by the time Astana holds EXPO2017. It will use Russian gauge (1520mm), single track, with rated speed of 250 km/h. A French company, Systra, will oversee it. The travel time is supposed to be reduced from 12 hours to 5 hours.

Well, back to China domestic lines.

Kazakhstan plans 1 000 km high speed line (http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/projects-infrastructure/single-view/view/kazakhstan-plans-1000-km-high-speed-line.html)

Yet some more: Early or later Russia will connect Moscow with Yekaterinburg and Chelyabinsk. So then there will be "just" 2,5 thous km to connect Chelyabinsk with Urumqi via Troitsk, Kostanay, Astana and Karaganda. Or via Tyumen, Omsk, Pavlodar, Semey and Ust'-Kamenogorsk.

^^^ Why only single track? Or do they mean one track each way?

1435 mm Khorgos-Almaty HSR it would not be moot. It would connect Almaty, itself a major city, to China, and provide a convenient connection/break of gauge at Almaty station.

I cannot justify it economically but I like the idea of a Trans-Eurasian express. I have never taken the Transsibirian railway, but if there were a Eurasian HSR link I would take it (though frankly most times I would take a plane). For that reason I am a little peeved with the Russians for staying with the broad gauge, but the time changing trains would be a small part of the journey, so it may not be that big a deal.



Single track is cheaper, and for some areas with long distances and little traffic it makes sense. This would be the second single track HSR after the Bothnia line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bothnia_Line) in Sweden, and this one will be five times as long. Crossing trains may have to wait at a passing loop like a station, which can make high-speed travel far less speedy.



Yes, that would be preferable to changing trains on the border. A line like that could in principle continue, even all the way to Iran (using standard gauge) as need be, as per the map above.

It is all a bit off-topic, but international travel could be part of the motivation for HSR to places like Urumqi or Kunming.

Almost done...

The Russian broad gauge network is huge and it WORKS. No point in changing it - they are better off developing high speed trains of wide gauge.

Spaniards have built Talgo 250/Renfe class 130 trains - which run at 220 km/h on 1668 mm and 250 km/h on 1435 mm. They have already built 1520 mm Talgo 130, and it is running on Tashkent-Samarkand high speed railway.

So how about buying some variable gauge Talgo 250 trains which could travel Urumqi-Almaty on 1435 mm and after changing gauge at a gauge changer somewhere in Almaty station - rather faster than bogie exchange - continue some to Astana and then Moscow, some to Tashkent, Samarkand and then Ashabad?

The Russian Gauge network is large, but it only accounts for about 5% of global passenger-km. So basically that means any Russian passenger train has to be custom designed/modified and then built.

In comparison Standard Gauge is used in the USA, Europe and in China, and accounts for the vast majority of passenger-km and railway R&D in the world.
So everything standard gauge really is cheaper, faster and better.

I agree that Russia should be licensing the Talgo technology if they really want to get into high-speed trains. But given how sparsely populated Russia is and how few HSR lines have enough people to justify construction, it's probably better just to do a one-off purchase because they'll really struggle to sustain the design. It takes years of learning and continuous refinement to get a train design right.

Right there you know that the Chinese dream will not happen. HSR? Yes. China sourced? Could be. But one continuous continguous line? No. K are going with the Russian gauge.

China is standard gauge, 1535mm.

A standard design on broad gauge axles doesn't involve much in the way of extra development or tooling costs.



The standard gauge doesn't mean a unified rolling stock market. The US has the same gauge as Europe and China, however an off-the-shelf European train can't run in the US. In fact, taking an European train set and modifying it for the Russian network is trivial compared to modifying it for the US.

As to passenger volumes: Don't discount Japan (narrow gauge) and India (broad gauge).

Not really.

Variable gauge technology is needed for direct trains across breaks of gauge. It does mean a persistent cost in terms of weight and braking capacity. Spain uses fixed gauge trainsets alongside variable gauge ones, because fixed gauge trains are cheaper where the route stays on single gauge.

Likewise, Russia should be developing high speed trains on wide gauge, for Moscow-St. Petersburg, St. Petersburg-Helsinki, Helsinki-Lahti.... Variable gauge is proper for the direct trains across break of gauge, like Oulu-Boden, Tallinn-Warszawa, Moscow-Berlin, Baku-Tbilisi-Ankara, Ashabad-Teheran, Astana-Urumqi, Ulan-Bator-Beijing, Vladivostok-Changchun...

On the Kunming end: 1000 mm is not very well suited for high speed due to stability problems. Queensland does operate 160 km/h on 1067 mm, but this is hard. Therefore Burma, whose mainlines are 1000 mm, is better off accepting the high speed lines from Kunming at 1435 mm, and connecting to local train network.

But Bangladesh has some 1676 mm, and India is standardizing on 1676 mm and regauging 1000 mm lines. Therefore, China can buy Talgo trainsets designed for 1435/1676 mm (besides the sets of 1435/1520 mm on northern border) and send them across Hump... Where should the crossing to 1676 mm width be? Calcutta? Dhacca? Chittagong?

Or that the dream of long-distance train is just a beautiful dream, whether outside China or inside China. HSR can compete with air for being more comfortable, and being more point to point (though not always in China where the station can be as inconveniently located as the airport; this will improve, but so will the airport), the security is less annoying and less quick. This gives an advantage for short-distance trips (where planes are at a disadvantage anyway, take-off and landing is very energy intensive and uncomfortable for passengers, something cruising at high altitude is not).

For trains to compete long-distance with planes (speed 900 km/h), they would probably have to go at speeds of 600 km/h or more, in which case the drag would be absolutely atrocious. That could possibly be mollified with long trains (16 cars, 32 cars or something), but that would affect frequency. More importantly, infrastructure made today couldn't be upgraded to such a speed, and would have to be rebuilt, leaving a very expensive network for local transport (where it can easily beat cars and busses for trunk lines).

To actually be an improvement, and thus justifying the cost, it would need to exceed. That means 1000+ km/h trains in evacuated tubes or similar. Never mind that nothing such exists, the cost of building such a thing when it were to exist would be absolutely humongous, even on a comparably short route, say Beijing-Shanghai. Even then air transport could easily compete if origin and destination were not on the line.

In a way we are back 50 years ago in the 1960s when the beautiful dream was the supersonic flight. Concorde aside, it never happened.

Subsonic flights could and did outcompete Concorde on comfort and costs - despite flying at less than half the speed.

So could high speed trains likewise outcompete planes?

Changing axles is a major undertaking because it means all the design calculations have to be redone and components modified, and new tooling is actually pretty expensive.

And we're talking about HSR here, where there is effectively a unified market for rolling stock.
Note that because China is in the process of building out more high-speed rail than the rest of the world has in the past 50years.

To do so, train designs from Alstom, Kawasaki, Siemens and Bombardier have already been localised for Chinese standards - which are very very similar to Euro-HSR standards.

And a quick back of the envelope calculation ends up with China and Europe alone, accounting for almost half of all passenger-km in the world (for both HSR and non-HSR). So standard gauge is where most of the R&D money is going, and where most of the production capacity is.

Plus note that HSR in Japan is standard gauge and the future Indian HSR network may be standard gauge as well.

...aaand finally: I should have clarified somewhat more. I suggested Talgo for Russia because can it can handle variable gauges AND it also uses tilting technology for HS running on existing networks, which is a very useful feature in Russia.

I think they are in China. Lots of latent demand that appears when a CRH line opens up between major cities. Everything from comfort, time saving getting to/from the station, easier security procedures that save time, event oriented travel by families, and the fact that more than a few people do not like to fly and prefer to stay on the ground.

You do not need to exceed absolute speed to have an advantage. Many people place a value on time, but also intangibles will modify that such that more time may not 'cost more' to a given person.

I, for one, want to take a Principal Class seat to Guangzhou just because. I can fly for the same or less, in much less time. But sleeping whilst laying down in my seat on the way there? I cannot pass that up!

Ofcourse the demand is latent in China. We are talking about an economy that may still quadrouple the comming 20-25 years, and with that the transport needs will at least triple. The market is that huge, and the layout of China is perfect for hsr. But the same demand would be there for planes too, if the prizes had been more out for auction in a more free economy with competition and less airport tax.

Then again, I don't see the point in this trans eurasian network outside the majr population centers of europe, china and india. Sure a few tracks down to Indochina and perhaps connecting China with India. But all the way to Europe doesn't make sense. It would still take over 33 hours to ride from Shanghai to Berlin and that is too long when a flight takes you only 11 hours.

To me it makes more sense to spend money on airport trains going straight to the railway stations in every major city. That way time is more well spent, and you can connect with air and train more efficiently.

Imagine going from an Airbus A380 on an airport train in Beijing after arriving from Frankfurt only to take a hsr up to Shenyang. That is how I see the future of trans eurasian travel. Swift and efficient without obstacles like trainchanges in Russia or Kazakhstan, or Iran for that matter.

Edit: Oh, but we are already there now :)

Except that for the most part airports and HSR stations are not integrated in China, and it isn't the rule in Europe either.

Not done yet.
Western European designs are being exported to Russian gauge countries, so it does not appear to impose a big barrier.


All rolling stock manufacturers will happily build trains to any track and loading gauge you specify. The Chinese HST's are actually quite different from European ones. They have wider car bodies for example.


They'll build it to standard gauge. Indian standard gauge. 1676mm. There is no case to be made for going for a different gauge.If the high-speed rail is an upgrade of existing low-speed rail, of course you wouldn't change gauge. If on the other hand you build new HSR track not intended to integrate with the existing system you would likely be better off using standard gauge. This is what Spain did with their AVE high-speed network.
Yes, and Spain is probably at a serious disadvantage compared to France whose TGV is naturally integrated with low-speed rail. Spain would have been better off sticking to their gauge.

I'm only aware of 2 designs with a handful of trains to be delivered with Russian Gauge.

Contrast that with the situation in China where 6+ HSR designs initially trialed on the tracks.
Over 800 HSR trains comprising almost 10000cars have now been mass-produced in China.
===

You're right that any manufacturer will build to a different gauge and loading.

But the Russian gauge market is just too small to support lots of manufacturers competing with lower prices and their best products.

I say that there is effectively a single market for HSR trains in Europe and China because the standards are very similar.

Trains in the EU are designed to a common interoperability standard, which means they have to work in over 20 different countries on standard gauge, each with their own ways of working, loading gauge, signalling etc. So the Chinese situation is pretty much covered already.

So when China started from scratch 6 years ago, they could apply the almost the same standards and operating manuals from Europe. Then you have to look at all the technology crossover and duplicate production facilities between the train manufacturers in Europe and China.

===

Where are you getting your information on Indian gauge HSR from??

Kerala plans high speed rail network

The high-speed corridor would have two parallel tracks in the standard gauge system as is the case with Delhi Metro Rail."

http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/kerala-plans-high-speed-rail-network-111091600096_1.html

Mumbai-Ahmedabad High Speed Railway Corridor
Japan International Consultants for Transportation Co., Ltd. (JIC)

We propose standard gauge for HSR in India (even though
conventional line has broad gauge), as following reasons:
 Main stream of world HSR is standard gauge
 Capacity of the conventional line would be limited for HSR
 Securing safety in different speeds of railway operations

http://www.jterc.or.jp/english/kokusai/conferences/pdf/130211-jic-presentation.pdf

Then again, I don't see the point in this trans eurasian network outside the majr population centers of europe, china and india. Sure a few tracks down to Indochina and perhaps connecting China with India. But all the way to Europe doesn't make sense. It would still take over 33 hours to ride from Shanghai to Berlin and that is too long when a flight takes you only 11 hours.

Russia I agree with, too large distances, too few people (in most cases). So, what high-speed rail projects are there in Asia (outside East Asia - China, Japan, Korea...)? The above commissioned Almaty-Astana, Tashkent-Samarkand (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=148923) (only a small segment of which is actually high-speed by standard definition, and only running once a day (!)). Others?

So, what high-speed rail projects are there in Asia (outside East Asia - China, Japan, Korea...)? The above commissioned Almaty-Astana, Tashkent-Samarkand (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=148923) (only a small segment of which is actually high-speed by standard definition, and only running once a day (!)). Others?

Does Turkey have any high-speed rail projects in Europe, or are they all in Asia?

This Wikipedia map is supposed to be maintained by SSC-ers and up to date:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/High_Speed_Railroad_Map_Europe_2011.svg
(skipping the discussion of where Europe ends for a more pragmatic "if it is within the map and high-speed, it will be drawn).

Also the Kunming-Singapore route, in Thailand (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1604117) and Malaysia (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=902328), Thailand closest to opening.

And for completion, here is the map for East Asia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Eastern_Asia_HSR2011.svg
But for West Asia, South Asia, North Asia, South-East Asia there isn't anything yet.

And for completion, here is the map for East Asia:


Which is obviously wrong in many ways in China.

Is it? I didn't notice. Not sure who's maintaining that one. The speed should be higher on some distances, but with the current slowdown it seems about right. The Dalian-Harbin line should jump up to 300 km/h soon though.

You are right, it does need some updating. Also from Wikipedia here are some proposals/visions for Indian HSR:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/India_HSR_potential_route_1112.GIF

The Haramain line between Mecca and Medina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haramain_High_Speed_Rail_Project) is already under construction, planned opening next year. Design speed 360 km/h.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A5zNkUDCMAAtVGf.jpg:large

And for completion, here is the map for East Asia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Eastern_Asia_HSR2011.svg
But for West Asia, South Asia, North Asia, South-East Asia there isn't anything yet.

It's a SVG, is very easy to edit and update it. Inkscape for example is a free tool to edit this and is very easy to use.

And for completion, here is the map for East Asia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Eastern_Asia_HSR2011.svg
But for West Asia, South Asia, North Asia, South-East Asia there isn't anything yet.

You forgot the Hokuriku Shinkansen, and the Chuo Shinkansen.

It's a SVG, is very easy to edit and update it. Inkscape for example is a free tool to edit this and is very easy to use.

I just made a thread on best ways for creating/editing/collaborating on maps (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=101935640).

And for completion, here is the map for East Asia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Eastern_Asia_HSR2011.svg
But for West Asia, South Asia, North Asia, South-East Asia there isn't anything yet.

There are many mistakes on this map, especially in Southern China. For a starter, Guilin is not such a big railway hub. Huaihua, wrong directions of railway lines, etc., etc.

You forgot the Hokuriku Shinkansen, and the Chuo Shinkansen.

They're not built yet

Are they under construction or just planned?

Ofcourse the demand is latent in China. We are talking about an economy that may still quadrouple the comming 20-25 years, and with that the transport needs will at least triple.

I am not referring to latent, future middle class growth.

I am referring to people now who would take a CRH but not a regular train, but not fly either. When the CRH opens up, 2nd class is booked full of these middle class families who would not fly and would prefer to not take the old trains. They can afford the old trains now, but want the ZHGT.

They're not built yet

Are they under construction or just planned?

The Hokuriku Shinkansen Nagano - Kanazawa section is scheduled to open in spring 2015. The Yamanashi test course is going to be incorporated into the Chuo shinkansen.

Chinese, HK firms show interest in Malaysian bullet train project

Malaysia's Land Public Transport Commission revealed that mainland Chinese and Hong Kong companies have expressed interest in the multi-billion dollar bullet train project that will link Kuala Lumpur with Singapore. Although he did not mention the names of the companies, Mohamad Nur Ismal Kamal, CEO of the commission, said Malaysia has been in talks with Hong Kong rail and property companies as well as with mainland Chinese firms. Tendering for the said project, which is expected to boost industries in the Malaysian cities it passes through, is expected to begin in a year.

http://www.sbrchina.com/mv/news/1362167.html (http://www.sbrchina.com/mv/news/1362167.html)

Anybody has more information about it?

East Asia - China section updates as of Feb 2013

There are 3 links of Pan Asia Railway with China section, all starting from Kunming, Yunnan Province:

West link: Kunming to Myanmar
Middle link: Kunming to Laos
East link: Kunming to Vietnam

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Kunming-Singapore.png/462px-Kunming-Singapore.png
wiki map

Update:

West link: Kunming to Myanmar


Kunming-Dalin railway is operational
12/4/2012 Dali-Baoshan-Ruili (Myanmar border) is under construction
329.379km, Dali-Baoshan section is 75% completed
12/30/2012 Guangtong-Dali double line renovation started
174.34km, 13.93bln yuan, completes in May 2017

Middle link: Kunming to Laos


Kunming-Yuxi railway is operational
Yuxi-Mohan (Laos boder) railway is at preparation stage
504km

East link: Kunming to Vietnam


Kunming-Yuxi railway is operational
Yuxi-Mengzi railway: 141km, 14 stations, design speed 120km/h, opened on 2/24/2013
1/3/2013 Mengzi-Hekou (Vietnam border) railway tracklaying started
141km, 6.93 bln yuan, design speed 120km/h, opening in September 2014.

Interesting article by Time Magazine about building railway in Laos.

Laos’ Mammoth Train Project a Fast Track to Debt and Despair

Change is coming to sleepy Laos in the form of a $7.2 billion railway, set to carve its way through this war-ravaged nation. The costs are to be borne by the Laotian government, courtesy of a Chinese loan amounting to a staggering 86% of Laos’ annual $8.3 billion GDP. The level of indebtedness has led some to condemn the scheme as the latest example of Beijing’s inexorable expansion into Southeast Asia. Aghast economists fear that such exorbitant spending could saddle an already impoverished nation with an insurmountable deficit. Moreover, in Laos’ shadowy police state, where even household-name dissidents are “disappeared” without a murmur of explanation, there are serious doubts on whether ordinary Lao could influence the course of a deal inked by their communist government, however unfavorable it may prove.

Read more: http://world.time.com/2013/04/15/laoss-mammoth-train-project-a-fast-track-to-debt-and-despair/

Interesting article by Time Magazine about building railway in Laos.

That's neo-colonialism for you.

That's neo-colonialism for you.

What is?

What is?

What the article I referred to in the quote was discussing.

Laos will be heavily indebted, yet they need the infrastructure. It's quite a common theme in Africa too.

Aren't there some breaks of gauge on that map? Its not like a train could go from Kunming to Singapore

Too bad. Imagine if everything was standard gauge-a container train could go from France to Vietnam...

What the article I referred to in the quote was discussing.

Laos will be heavily indebted, yet they need the infrastructure. It's quite a common theme in Africa too.

The West is also heavily indebted and needs its infrastructure... how is that neo-colonialism?

What Gauge will this new rail system be?

The West is also heavily indebted and needs its infrastructure... how is that neo-colonialism?

Because China will be able to lend the money on very one-sided terms to Laos, whereas the European countries wouldn't stand for it, for historical and cultural reasons.

An O/T example: Chin lends money to an african country to build a gold mine. The gold mine will be run by a Chinese firm and most of the money and materials generated will return to China, but the African nation accepts these terms as it is desperate for any kind of investment at all.

European nations are already heavily developed, such terms would be laughed at.

I would like some collaborating evidence for the Laos contract, and its particulars, but China has had some fairly one-sided contracts in the past. IIRC the original idea went along something that the Chinese would build the railway and finance most of it, but de facto own the railway for a long time to come.

The Chinese interest wouldn't be in poor landlocked Laos, but that Vientiane is more than half the way to Bangkok, and more direct and less politically challenging than a route through Vietnam or Burma. Bangkok would in turn be halfway to Singapore.

An O/T example: Chin lends money to an african country to build a gold mine. The gold mine will be run by a Chinese firm and most of the money and materials generated will return to China, but the African nation accepts these terms as it is desperate for any kind of investment at all.


Africa is actually a special example. It's not 'the nation' that accepts these terms because they are desperate, it's the ruling elite that accepts these terms because they get a lot of money on their Swiss bank accounts, and don't care at all if their decisions are detrimental to the prosperity of their country as a whole.

Aren't there some breaks of gauge on that map? Its not like a train could go from Kunming to Singapore

Too bad. Imagine if everything was standard gauge-a container train could go from France to Vietnam...

The new high-speed tracks are supposed to be standard gauge in Thailand and Malaysia, so it is pretty much a given that the new track in Laos would too. France-Vietnam cargo without break of gauge won't happen as Russia is set on using Russian broad gauge.

More importantly I don't know what the plan is for cargo through Laos. For the Chinese network one of the economic arguments for building a separate high-speed network is to release the existing rail network for cargo transport, but Laos doesn't have an existing rail network, and a mixed network for people and cargo negates much of the high-speed benefit. The primary benefit of a rail network should be cargo. The benefit of people transport end-to-end is more slight, around 5 hours Kunming-Bangkok, 10+ hours Kunming-Singapore, hardly competitive with air transport. Cargo and cargo fees is a different story, that could be a handy money for the Laotian economy.

A people link Kunming-Vientiane only links the capital with one minor Laotian city, while on the Thai side they would get a Bangkok-Vientiane link practically for free because it is all Thailand. If tiny Laos were saddled with the bill for a link they wouldn't benefit that much from they really would have gotten a rough deal.

Because China will be able to lend the money on very one-sided terms to Laos, whereas the European countries wouldn't stand for it, for historical and cultural reasons.

An O/T example: Chin lends money to an african country to build a gold mine. The gold mine will be run by a Chinese firm and most of the money and materials generated will return to China, but the African nation accepts these terms as it is desperate for any kind of investment at all.

European nations are already heavily developed, such terms would be laughed at.


National revenues (tax, service fees,etc) and jobs for Africans is a certainty.

I am not sure if the proud Europeans are laughing to the bank though ;).



Victoria businessman David Black has taken a major step forward in fulfilling his dream of an oil refinery built on B.C.’s west coast after making a deal that could be worth billions of dollars with a major bank in China.

Black’s company, Kitimat Clean, signed a memorandum of understanding Thursday with the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China.

The deal will see the bank act as both financial adviser to the $25-billion project and provide financing for the refinery, pipelines and other elements of the project, which Black said could be in service by 2020.

- Andrew Duffy (http://www.timescolonist.com/david-black-signs-deal-with-major-chinese-bank-to-help-finance-kitimat-refinery-1.114077)/ Times Colonist April 19, 2013



Canada is pulling ahead of the U.S. in a contest to be the first exporter of liquefied natural gas from the North American shale bonanza to Asia’s $150 billion LNG market.

An LNG terminal being built at a cove north of Vancouver financed by a Houston private-equity firm is scheduled to begin shipping the fuel across the Pacific Ocean in mid-2015, eight months before the first continental U.S. plant is slated to start. Canada’s government has approved twice as much LNG export capacity as its southerly neighbor, evincing a friendlier attitude toward selling domestic gas to the highest bidder and positioning the nation as the go-to source of gas in North America for overseas buyers.

- Joe Carroll & Rebecca Penty (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-02/canada-seen-beating-u-s-in-150-billion-asia-lng-race.html) - bloomberg.com Apr 3, 2013 12:35 PM MT

What you describe is very different to what is happening in Africa. Canada is a strong state and will get a lot of benefits from the sale of natural gas to China regardless of who is financing building the port infrastructure. I'd be willing to bet that the fine print for deals in Canada and deals in Malawi is very different indeed ;)

Because China will be able to lend the money on very one-sided terms to Laos, whereas the European countries wouldn't stand for it, for historical and cultural reasons.

An O/T example: Chin lends money to an african country to build a gold mine. The gold mine will be run by a Chinese firm and most of the money and materials generated will return to China, but the African nation accepts these terms as it is desperate for any kind of investment at all.

European nations are already heavily developed, such terms would be laughed at.

What a ton of BS!

You want to learn about effect of China on Africa? Ask Africans. They are very happy about it. You know who is unhappy about China's mining investment in Africa? It is Western mining companies who are very unhappy because China is giving more money with better terms and really investing in beneficial stuff such as infrastructure which exactly what African countries need to develop. China makes natural resources Africa has more valuable.

If China is having such great deals why not US, England or Germany cannot reach those deals :weird:

I wonder what type of logic you guys have... :nuts:

Same thing with Laos. Without China's investment (both money and technology) they cannot have that railroad. If you ask same project to be done by Siemens it will much much more expensive than what China is offering.

What you describe is very different to what is happening in Africa. Canada is a strong state and will get a lot of benefits from the sale of natural gas to China regardless of who is financing building the port infrastructure. I'd be willing to bet that the fine print for deals in Canada and deals in Malawi is very different indeed ;)

An example of a typical condescending attitude toward Africans.