INDIANAPOLIS | Lucas Oil Stadium | Com [Archive] - Page 3

ablerock

July 29th, 2008, 05:15 PM

from indystar.com

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080729/BUSINESS/807290337

Enterprising vendors choosing their spots
Entrepreneurs snap up tracts near stadium for game day parking lots

by Jeff Swiatek

A land rush is on around Lucas Oil Stadium, fueled by entrepreneurs looking to create parking places for Colts fans and others who will attend events when the sports venue opens next month.

Jerry Cannon is among them, scouring land records in search of desirable lots to buy or lease within an easy walk of the stadium.

"I've done that for the past year," said Cannon, who jokes that the plat room in the City-County Building, where land records are stored, has become almost like his second home.

So far, Cannon said, he has lined up almost 400 parking spaces at three locations where he aims to get city approval to open parking lots.

Cannon and others in his line of work see the stadium creating a new frontier for parking by shifting the most desirable parking areas for stadium users to the south of the elevated railroad tracks running next to the RCA Dome, which Lucas Oil replaces.

The widely shared view of parking operators is that Indianapolis Colts fans and other users of Lucas Oil can expect parking around it to be as easy to find and no costlier than it was at the RCA Dome.

"There are a lot of surface lots in that area. I don't see any shortage of parking for the games," said Mark Pryor, director of new business development for Denison Parking, the city's largest Downtown parking company.

Game day parking rates for most fans should be the same as for RCA Dome events -- $5 to $20, said Pryor.

Prime reserved spots already are selling for $50. One reason for the higher rate for close-in spots: The approximately 1,500 parking spots in the lots surrounding the stadium have been turned over to the Indianapolis Colts for their use, under the city's contract with the team. Another 1,500 remote spots have been given to the team.

The Colts are expected to use those 3,000 spots to park players and their families and friends, team personnel, media, various VIPs and stadium workers, among others.

Denison has been hired to handle traffic for the Colts' stadium parking.

Many Colts fans and other Lucas Oil users are expected to continue parking where they did when games were at the RCA Dome.

Parking entrepreneurs see opportunities not only to park cars, but also to use prime lots near the stadium to host tailgating parties complete with electrical hookups, portable restrooms and even live music.

All of that and more is planned on the Jobsite Supply lot, occupying a prime location at 624 S. Missouri St. across from the stadium, said Heather Roush, general manager of Sideline Parking, which is co-leasing the site for Colts game day parking.

She is selling the Jobsite Supply spots for $45 per Colts game or $450 for the 10-game season.

"I get probably 15 to 20 calls a day" inquiring about parking for Colts games, she said. "People are shopping right now" for spaces and meeting their needs has created an "extremely competitive" market for parking operators, she said.

Jim Siegel, a Downtown parking investor who heads a Carmel financial services company, said he and a partner already have sold all 50 parking spots for Colts games on a lot they are buying at 423 W. South St., a half-block from the stadium.

At an asking price of $500 for the season, "We sold out in two days," Siegel said.

To establish parking lots on vacant ground, city zoning laws for Downtown require that they be paved to reduce dust and mud. The only exception is on ground zoned industrial, where a gravel lot can be operated for one year. The city also requires that Downtown lots be landscaped, and it likes to see fencing put up, said Jeff York, senior planner for the Department of Metropolitan Development.

So far, the city has received no applications to open gravel lots anywhere around the stadium, he said.

Cannon said he soon will file with the city to open a 150-space lot on South Meridian Street south of Shapiro's Delicatessen and a 120-space lot near Capitol Avenue and McCarty Street. He said he would prefer to put gravel on both lots, at half the cost of asphalt, and he doesn't see a need for ornate fencing.

"The city wants every lot to look like Lilly. My name's not Eli," he said referring to the pharmaceutical giant, whose corporate parking lots to the east of Lucas Oil are fenced, landscaped, paved and patrolled.

"If the city could ease up on their criteria, we could get a lot more done," Cannon said.

With 63,000 seats, Lucas Oil holds about 5,000 more fans than the RCA Dome.

The area around Lucas Oil and extending north to the large surface lots serving the OneAmerica Tower hold ample parking to accommodate its larger crowds, but it may take a while for people to sort out the lots and garages they prefer to use, said Scott Gould, a Denison general manager.

The jump in gasoline prices and a weaker economy also may alter people's driving and parking habits from years past, perhaps encouraging more carpooling and a greater willingness to park farther away and walk to save money on parking.

"It's a guess. Nobody knows right now," Gould said. As drivers descend on Lucas Oil Stadium for the first time next month, Denison and other parking operators "will just roll with the punches," he said.

philaustin06

August 2nd, 2008, 12:54 PM

Stadium work: Fourth and goal

Workers in hard hats bustled around the plazas outside Lucas Oil Stadium on Friday, paving sidewalks and planting flowers, the latest sign that work on the $720 million building is nearing completion.

With the stadium's grand opening set for two weeks from today, crews are putting in long hours -- some working around the clock -- to have the building done on time.

Despite a failure last month in the stadium's drainage system that left three areas of the building with flood damage, stadium officials remain confident Lucas Oil will be ready to go for grand-opening ceremonies Aug. 16.

Crews have four major projects to complete before the stadium is ready.

Groundwork
A wet June meant conditions weren't ideal for paving, creating delays.

Most of the unfinished concrete work is near the stadium's north entrance.

Two sets of staircases leading into the north entrance still must be poured, in addition to sections of that plaza.

Outside the stadium's northeast entrance, near the Colts Pro Shop, workers on Friday were laying brick pavers. Of roughly 20,000 bricks, about 75 percent had been laid as of Friday.

Next week, workers will begin striping the south parking lot. That work already has been completed on the stadium's northwest lot. On Friday, many of the parking lot lights remained on as workers tested them. Nearby, a crew was working to install an electronic message board on the southwest corner of the site.

Landscaping
Unlike the RCA Dome, Lucas Oil will be surrounded by plenty of open plazas and landscaping.

The main sidewalks that run along the east and west boundaries of the stadium will be lined with about 300 trees.

There will be about 8,000 plants on the stadium site, and most of those will be planted in the next two weeks.

"We've barely scratched the surface so far," said David Burroff, the project's landscape architect. "I've probably still got 6,000 plants in the nursery."

Coordinating the landscaping has been difficult because Burroff has to carefully time the delivery of the plants, many of which are being stored in a nursery in Ohio. Complicating matters is the hot weather and a preference to plant flowers, shrubs and trees in the fall or spring -- not in August.

Wet weather in June has pushed concrete work on the site behind schedule, a delay Burroff said has made his job more difficult because he needs to wait for the completion of concrete planters and sidewalks.

"It's really a coordination nightmare. It's like trying to drive a car without tires," he said. "It's not anybody's fault. It's just the way some of these projects go."

Burroff has 10 workers on site but said that likely will increase to 30 in the coming days.

"It's going to be very nice for the community when it's open, and we will have it done on time," he said. "Unfortunately, it means we're going to have to work day and night to do it."

Sponsorship areas
Much of the remaining work inside the stadium is taking place in sponsorship areas.

For example, earlier this week, signs for Clarian Health Partners were delivered to the stadium. Clarian has naming rights for the stadium's southeast corner.

Workers also have been installing signs for companies such as ProLiance Energy, Baker & Daniels and Advantage Health Solutions.

Much of the sponsorship work is being viewed as a finishing touch best addressed after completion of the construction along the stadium's concourses.

The same goes for work on the Colts Pro Shop on the stadium's northeast side. On Friday, crews were busy laying the floors, building walls and placing shelves in the shop.

Cleanup
Making sure the stadium is spick-and-span for its big debut also is at the top of the to-do list.

This entails everything from wiping down seats to power-washing concrete concourses.

For weeks, workers for the stadium's architect, HKS, have been conducting a process known as punch-listing in which they examine areas of the building labeled as complete to ensure every item is in its proper place and every room is built according to plan.

Much of that work is taking place in suites and concession stands now.

All of the stadium's suites have been equipped with their furniture and appliances, and the concession stands are being cleaned. State officials have been on site to inspect the stadium's escalators and elevators.

The installation of the artificial turf is now complete and the goal posts have been erected. Workers also recently finished the installation of the large speakers that hang over the 50-yard line.

"Right now, there's no single thing we're worried about," said Bob May, who is helping manage the stadium project for Hunt Construction.

"It's all the little things that need to get done."

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080802/LOCAL/808020399

*and an updated photo gallery:
http://www2.indystar.com/autofocus/galleries/hybrid/3112/1
I really like how they made picture collages on the concourse walls. this stadium is going to be so tight!

4miGO!!!

August 2nd, 2008, 01:41 PM

Hi, men. sorry that im not to the point here. its cuz i dont know who to ask- where can i find photos of Salt-lake-city and its skyscrapers? thanx.

Indywatch

August 2nd, 2008, 07:28 PM

try www.emporis.com type in Salt Lake City

or www.skyscraperpage.com search on Salt Lake City

or www.skyscrapercity.com United States - West Coast and Interior West http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=402156

or www.google.com search on Salt Lake City images

philaustin06

August 7th, 2008, 03:46 AM

does anyone know what will go around the walls of the playing field? In the RCA Dome, it was just the blue padded highschool gym mat looking walls with the word Indianapolis on it. I saw on the previews for Madden 2009 that its going to be blue, and have horseshoes, and say Indianapolis Colts all over it. Hopefully they'll come up with something creative. Heres the clip of madden Im talking about:

And ps. does anyone know when theyre planning on announcing the winner of that damn design a horse contest??

philaustin06

August 7th, 2008, 03:52 AM

some neat videos of inside the Luke you might wana see..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn_fDHJmWPA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7cYi__SdTM

IndyTypeGuy

August 8th, 2008, 12:56 AM

some neat videos of inside the Luke you might wana see..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn_fDHJmWPA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7cYi__SdTM

Nice videos. I like the first one. It must be only a few days old. Can't wait to see the Colts take the field.

philaustin06

August 8th, 2008, 11:59 AM

a whole gang of new renderings of the new stadium at the lucas oil stadium website. do you guys really think they'll put the pictures on the outside of the stadium like that by the windows?? it would def add some color to the building.
http://www.lucasoilstadium.com/Visitor_Info/Photo_Gallery/

cwilson758

August 8th, 2008, 05:08 PM

Danillo

August 8th, 2008, 10:34 PM

I like how they'll be able to set it up for basketball so that the seats come in evenly from all sides, versus having to put the court perpendicularly to the field and have temporary stands set up, but only using about half of the bowl, like they do in many dome stadiums for basketball.

aavmarine

August 9th, 2008, 02:36 AM

Does anyone know if the Luke will offer views of the field from the concourses? I know the remodeled Soldier Field does, and was wondering if this was a feature of the Luke. It's great to still see the field when going for a beer/pretzel/restroom and certainly adds to the experience.

Yes, on some levels, but I'm not sure if every level. I do know they will have a massive amount of HD screens and surround sound around the stadium. Even outside in the tailgate sections.

IndyYeah

August 9th, 2008, 04:17 AM

All I know is that the stadium is absolutely huge. I could go for a nicer asthetic look, but it is still nice outside to look at.

Jayayess1190

August 9th, 2008, 04:26 AM

My photo:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/Jayayess1190/Urban/Midwest%20College%20Trip/P1030431.jpg

IndyYeah

August 9th, 2008, 04:38 AM

My photo:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/Jayayess1190/Urban/Midwest%20College%20Trip/P1030431.jpg

My only small problem is the front angles. Seen them before, but all in all a nice looking place. Inside seems to be the real deal!:cheers:

speedblue47

August 11th, 2008, 04:28 AM

Looks like I should have bid on the website construction. The inept designers they hired didn't even make sure that the z-index for the pop-up menus would allow them to be seen over the banner rendering under the navigation bar. That is sad considering how much they probably got paid.

SpiderMonkey

August 11th, 2008, 07:13 PM

Under review: A critique of Lucas Oil Stadium
Stadium captures Indy's conservative character and reflects its architectural history, critic says.

By Lawrence Cheek / Star correspondent

Enemies of modern architecture will note with satisfaction that Lucas Oil Stadium, which at first glance resembles a 19th-century factory on steroids, is by every imaginable measurement a better building than the much more progressive-looking RCA Dome it's replacing.

The dome is typical American stadium-arena blobitecture -- amorphous, anonymous, disposable. It says nothing about the city surrounding it and offers no welcoming gesture to anyone approaching it. It could be a textbook lesson in modernism's failure.

The fascinating question swirling around the stadium as it prepares for its opening, then, is: How have we advanced the art of architecture by looking backward? Or has Indianapolis just lost yardage on a $720 million play?

We can start by looking into the architect's mind at the outset.

Bryan Trubey, the lead designer for Dallas-based HKS, has nothing in his portfolio that clues us in to his personal predilections. His new stadium for the Dallas Cowboys looks like the offspring of a starship and a titanic mussel, but HKS' Lone Star Park, a Texas horse track, is unabashed Spanish Mission revivalism. On the progressive-architecture continuum, Lucas Oil Stadium lodges somewhere in between.

Trubey radiates no starchitect ego, and he sees his role as serving the community where he's working rather than using it as his stage. "This isn't about Trubey's personal brand of architecture," he says. "I've never felt comfortable in creating an expression that's personal to me, then replicating it over and over. It's far more interesting and appropriate to create something completely unique to its time and place. That's a richer field to mine than one's personal experience."

Trubey clearly mined Indianapolis' architecture history for the stadium's textures and themes, and not just Hinkle Fieldhouse, the obvious antecedent. Look at St. John Catholic Church, the 1871 Gothic Revival church a couple of blocks north of the stadium: Its arches, limestone-beveled buttresses and shoulderlike bays flanking the nave all resonate in the stadium.

Deeper than this, he understood the vast difference between the iconography of a stadium for the Cowboys -- an international brand in a city brimming with swagger and audacity -- and a multipurpose civic symbol for Indianapolis. He chooses his words with apparent care and precision: "I think this building links to the broader culture of the area in a way that a modernist building would struggle to."

Mostly good calls

It's impossible to know before the opening how well it's going to function as an NFL stadium, a giant NCAA arena or an extension of the Indiana Convention Center. But a great deal of the value, or detriment, of a building lies in how it makes us feel, and we can certainly talk about Lucas Oil Stadium in this light.

The first smart decision the architects made was to skew the stadium 24.4 degrees off the north-south street alignment. The reason was to line up the Downtown skyline in the vast north window, but there's actually a more valuable benefit: The colossal visual heft of the building as you walk or drive by is lightened because your perspective on it constantly changes. It seems less oppressive, and oppression is always a prime hazard in a building so far outside human scale.

HKS also deployed the full architectural playbook of schemes to break down the forbidding scale of the exterior walls, starting with the brick cladding. However big the building, a single brick is a basic element we can all relate to -- it's scaled for the human hand, and we've all held them. A precast concrete wall, in contrast, always introduces a degree of alienation.

The walls are articulated so busily that they're almost fussy. The portal arches are outlined with double rows of radiating bricks, the buttresses step back toward the walls as they climb, and the corners turn in a sequence of vertical accordion folds that help the whole composition feel less like a shoebox. Limestone cornices nicely trim all the pieces. Access ramps, which at this scale can dominate the architecture, are tucked away inside.

Study it closely, in fact, and the hulking-factory image dissolves, and it begins to seem as exquisitely detailed and proportioned as a Beaux-Arts city hall.

There are some problems. Study the north elevation closely, and you'll see that the colors in the pre-assembled brick panels don't quite match. (The bricks were laid offsite into forms of about 12 by 20 feet, then hoisted into place.) On the south entrance, the architects missed an opportunity to create a sudden sizzle of intimacy inside the arches, which are only about 6 feet deep. If the arches had punched into the lobbies another 10 feet, they would have offered a richer spatial experience in passing from open plaza into the vast indoor spaces.

One huge aesthetic debit is the "Lucas Oil Stadium" logo -- chunky, clunky and so overpowering that it tries to suck the energy out of the intimate architectural details. Not the architects' fault, obviously.

Inside, you're immediately nailed by the sheer power of vast, enclosed space. It's 295 feet from playing field to roof peak, 846 feet from one end zone window to the other. We get an instinctive rush when we confront such a vast indoor space, because we're seeing that our not-so-humble species has the power to create worlds. Architecture moves us when it suggests that we've surpassed our old limitations, whether in imagination or technology.

The most dynamic architectural detail inside is the structure itself -- the exposed bones of the four steel "superframes" at the corners that support the arched roof trusses. Their complexity is a thing of beauty in itself, and the fact that it's not only exposed but so close at hand -- you can nuzzle right up to the beefy I-beams as you walk through the top concourses -- is a way of humanizing the vastness. We feel more comfortable when we can see how something's put together.

HKS also has created a remarkably versatile world. It's the only three-tenant stadium in the country, which helps to justify its prodigious price tag and environmental footprint. The opening panes in the north window also enlarge the range of our sensual responses to the space. Peel back the roof and fling open the windows, and we're parked in the world's largest convertible.

While we're parked, let's ponder that thorny question posed earlier, the one about the art of architecture.

A building to treasure

For better or worse, we're into a century in which building technology makes possible virtually anything that an architect's imagination can hatch. Denver now has an art museum that looks like a pile of titanium pterodactyl beaks, London an office building in the form of a 40-story gherkin, and Beijing an Olympic stadium that suggests a giant bird's nest.

These buildings are both brilliant and ridiculous, inspirational and outrageously conceited. These contradictions are what make them interesting: They're windows into dimensions beyond the traditional values of architecture.

As a civic icon, Lucas Oil Stadium successfully evokes several things: Indy's architectural heritage and essential cultural conservatism, as a foundation. It also projects an image of immense brawn with an underlying matrix of elegance in its proportions and attention to strategic detail. Interesting, because this is how football's ardent advocates might well describe the game.

But what about improvisation and brutality, which are just as fundamental to football? What about the inspiration of the region's alternative architecture history, the one that produced Columbus' collection of 20th-century modernism?

It's tantalizing to imagine a civic icon exploding with such complexities and contradictions, but we'd better imagine a stadium's practical failure along with them. The inescapable truth is that radical buildings seldom work very well.

The art in this stadium may be in the architects' willingness to defy the ethic of it-could-be-anywhere modernism that produced the RCA Dome and try to make a building that Indianapolis will treasure.

Stadiums and arenas tumble into obsolescence with preposterous rapidity today, and if one is going to last, it had better be loved. This one has a chance.

socrates#1fan

August 11th, 2008, 07:28 PM

I don't see how the RCA dome was progressive. It clearly didn't prove to be progressive as many people found it to be rather ugly(within my experiences.).
The LOS will be able to stand the test of time and Indianapolis culture much longer than the RCA dome did.

cwilson758

August 11th, 2008, 10:21 PM

RCA Dome progressive? It was built on a shoestring budget, without a team, and no forethought.

Who is Lawrence Cheek? Never heard of him and when I got to:

The first smart decision the architects made was to skew the stadium 24.4 degrees off the north-south street alignment. The reason was to line up the Downtown skyline in the vast north window, but there's actually a more valuable benefit: The colossal visual heft of the building as you walk or drive by is lightened because your perspective on it constantly changes. It seems less oppressive, and oppression is always a prime hazard in a building so far outside human scale."

I laughed. This is the WORST aspect of this impressive building. I understand wanting "money" shots, but buildings would have still been visible (the new JW and of course, AUL, Key, etc) and the structure wouldn't look so awkward when driving on I-70.

arenn

August 11th, 2008, 10:56 PM

Lawrence Cheek is the architecture critic of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. The Star doesn't have an architecture critic, so whenever they want to review a major civic structure, they bring in Cheek. He's also reviewed the library (which he loved) and the IMA expansion (which he thought was functional but unambitious)

NaptownBoy

August 12th, 2008, 12:02 AM

Except for some final landscaping and cleanup, the Barn is now officially complete. :)
http://oxblue.com/archive/8252a53cdf135347c0dd1d16228b6ff2/1024x768.jpg

GarfieldPark

August 12th, 2008, 12:07 AM

I agree with Cheek on the aspect of turning the building slightly. By turning it - you get to have part of the massive building up close to the streets - but don't have to have either a) all of the building right next to the roadway for 1000 feet as you drive next to it (if it were built right up close to the street) - or b) a building sitting away from the roadway - with its side paralleling the roadway - but 70 - 100 feet away, which would kill some of the urban streetlife feel of having the building near you. By angling it, you get part of the building right next to you at times, so you can enjoy its massiveness and the detail of the architecture - but you also can get a view of more of the building as it slants away from the street. This is the way the building can be seen from all three roadways that are next to it: South Street, Capitol Avenue and Missouri Avenue. The landscaping they have been putting in over the past few days is helping to make the massive structure seem much more pedestrian friendly too. The angling helps provide some decent public spaces as well - with a bit more character than would have been provided with what otherwise would have likely been very rectangular plazas. I'm glad they're starting to take down all the fencing that had been surrounding it. Soon we will be able to get over there on our bikes and ride around it and get a real close-up view. I'll probably go down there this weekend and see if I can find a ticket for the tours. If not, I may be buying one to go to one of the high school games they have planned there in the following week - just to roam around the building.

NaptownBoy

August 12th, 2008, 12:10 AM

I know I've said this before, but architecturally speaking I don't care much for LOS. Oddly enough, it's one of those projects that seems to work only here so it fits in well with the local vernacular. That doesn't automatically make it good though, as the critic was trying to imply in the article.

The angling of the building makes absolutely NO sense from a functional standpoint, the interior seating capacity is small for a newer stadium and the designers went a bit overboard with the old school fieldhouse/gymnasium theme. At the end of the day, it's a football stadium and that will be its primary use (then conventions, and then basketball).

All of that having been said, I still can't wait to get my ass in there this weekend for the tour.

CorrND

August 12th, 2008, 12:35 AM

At the end of the day, it's a football stadium and that will be its primary use (then conventions, and then basketball).
Its greatest exposure may come through football, but there will be, what, 15 to 20 games played there per year? In terms of day-uses, I'm sure conventions and "other" will be much higher. LOS's versatility is hugely important.

IndyYeah

August 12th, 2008, 04:51 AM

He is kinda funny however, and somewhat on-line. I was trying to be real nice with respects to Indianas past. I am interested in the inside, but I think they could have done more outside. Least he has some humor!

ragerunner1

August 12th, 2008, 04:29 PM

I like it. It does represent a piece of the region's historical character.

What may be more important then the LOS is what is developed around it and how that future development interacts with this building. It will be very important for the surrounding buildings to be placed and scaled in a way that encompasses LOS and makes the entire area work and function together.

socrates#1fan

August 12th, 2008, 11:45 PM

. Oddly enough, it's one of those projects that seems to work only here so it fits in well with the local vernacular.

.

Isn't that what we want?
Everyone is building funky stadiums but Indianapolis is building something that may not be a roman temple but it still seems to scream "I'm here for good!" and at the least is a structure that local buildings can relate to.
We want something to scream Indianapolis and whether we like it or not Indianapolis isn't as popular for contemporary architecture as many cities in this nation are. We want to look like the city of Indianapolis! A city of rich history and a bright future! So I find this structure to fit Indianapolis quiet well. This is Indianapolis not Beijing after all.

NaptownBoy

August 13th, 2008, 12:08 AM

socrates#1fan

August 13th, 2008, 12:13 AM

Of course we want it to work here, and that's why it was built here and not in say, Seattle. My point was that just because a building fits with the surrounding context does not automatically make it good.

Of course. You have a good point.
A barn amongst many barns does not neccarely make it good.
However, the LOS both blends in with it's area which is made up of many good historic brick structures that the LOS reflects.
In my opinion its respect to the past and the future is what makes it good.

speedblue47

August 13th, 2008, 10:48 AM

indyfiend

August 13th, 2008, 04:11 PM

I love LOS for the fact that 1) It's the Colts stadium and it kicks the crap out of the Dome and 2) It does a wonderful job filling in the skyline approaching I-70. But personally, I agree with NaptownBoy in that it is not good architecture. The same designer had his hand in the Cowboys' new stadium, which I live almost across the street from. That stadium is without a doubt better architecturally than LOS.

Would the Cowboys' stadium worked in Indy? I think so, as the Dome was consider "futuristic" when it and similar Domes up around North America(HHH Metrodome, the one in Vancouver). This is actually futuristic and carries a swagger that demands attention, and is resulting in the city of Arlington(not a suburb of Dallas, the population here is almost 400,000) paving the way to becoming truly urban. The highway infrastructure in the area around the stadium is being streamlined, with large lots being available for development. A huge tract of strip malls and apartment complexes will soon be under the bulldozer tracks to make way for the "Lamar/Collins Complex" a series of urban-style mid-rise mixed-use towers. Old neighborhoods with many abandoned homes and shady shopping centers are being demolished for large hotels, condos, restaurants, and a "Entertainment District" to complement not only the stadium, but Ranger's Ballpark and Six Flags. In short, this stadium will change the city completely.

So far, LOS doesn't seem to have that effect, and may not for some time. It has many interesting features and will be great to watch a game in(except if your seat is behind those "beefy I-beams"). It does hark back to Indy's past, but as for me, if I want a field house, I'll build one. If I want a football stadium, I won't.

And no, I don't know what I would have done different, but I know I would have built it for this era and for the next.

I understand what you're saying. If you put LOS and the new Dallas stadium side by side, just about everyone would say that the Dallas stadium is nicer and has more of a wow factor.

http://www.stadiumsofnfl.com/future/cowboys752.jpg
http://www.stadiumsofnfl.com/future/los904.jpg

As far as originality and uniqueness, I think LOS wins hands down. To me, the Dallas stadium is just a bigger, newer, more enclosed version of Quest field in Seattle.
http://www.stadiumsofnfl.com/nfc/images/qwest08951.jpg

The Dallas stadium is built in the suberbs, with no other prominent buildings. LOS is in the heart of downtown. The Dallas stadium has the wow factor, but LOS has the staying power of a timeless structure. Oh yeah, and it's tougher too. Hey Dallas, my stadium can beat up your stadium anyday!:lol:

NaptownBoy

August 13th, 2008, 10:17 PM

The new Cowboys stadium is no doubt more enthralling and head turning, but it serves as a good example for a polar opposite to LOS in terms of architecture and context. I'll take a non-chalant Lucas Oil Stadium any day of the week over that straight-out-of-the-X-Files-lookin'-spaceship mess of a stadium they have over in the Metroplex.

arenn

August 13th, 2008, 10:21 PM

Frankly, the Dallas design is awful.

NaptownBoy

August 13th, 2008, 10:31 PM

Since we're in the game of comaparing stadiums, Ford Field is currently the best in the league, IMO.
http://football.ballparks.com/NFL/DetroitLions/newfront.jpg
Now that's is how you do a football stadium. Inside and out, there aren't too many things wrong with it. The building screams "I'm Detroit", it fits in well with the context of the area, and makes use of details in order to bring together a place that makes for a great football watching experience.

ablerock

August 13th, 2008, 10:48 PM

I snuck around the exterior of the building last night and snagged a few shots. A couple of gates were left open.

I can't wait to see it in person on Saturday.

This photo doesn't do this view justice. It's frigging massive in there.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/2760029075_df260b9756_b.jpg

arenn

August 13th, 2008, 11:13 PM

Naptown, that may be true, but your photo makes it look like an office building in Carmel.

NaptownBoy

August 13th, 2008, 11:19 PM

Naptown, that may be true, but your photo makes it look like an office building in Carmel.
You gotta love the irony though, huh?

speedblue47

August 14th, 2008, 03:35 AM

Ford Field is awful, it's a big box. You are supposed to make a structure what it is, not what you want it to look like. That's why we have Greek Columns going up cast in EIFS. That sort of building has no soul except for the one it has on loan from the rest of the city. The Dallas stadium is awe-inspiring, and you know EXACTLY what is going on in it. The shape is chosen to fit its purpose, and the materials are modern. Qwest Field is an abomination - it looks like you took a 21st century stadium and implanted its head on the body of a 70's stadium(I thought it was nice on the inside, but seeing the exterior makes me want to lose my lunch).

Look, I don't like the Cowboys but they beat us in stadium DESIGN. Of course, the city of Dallas should have made sure this was in Fair Park, but they dropped the ball on that, and the city of Arlington basically sold its soul for it. Financing 75% of a 1.2 Billion dollar commercial structure? Jerry Jones isn't turning that down(and it is part of why I hate him). I'm not saying that I wish the Cowboys stadium was built right at South and Capitol. I'm just saying, we could have made a much more bold statement that would have been more true to itself.

GarfieldPark

August 14th, 2008, 04:59 AM

Speedblue: Your point about Dallas' stadium being like the bubble-top domes were 25 years ago - being modern - may be the problem with it. If the Hoosier Dome, Humphrey Metrodome, Silver Dome, BC Dome in Vancouver, Carrier Dome in Syracuse, etc. were considered modern then - look at how they are viewed now --- very outdated and out of place. That could be the way the Dallas Stadium is looked at in 25 years. It and the similar stadium in Glendale have that similar new, silver modernism look. But what will it seem like in 25 years? I don't know how well it will hold up as tastes change.

NaptownBoy

August 14th, 2008, 05:10 AM

Ford Field is awful, it's a big box. You are supposed to make a structure what it is, not what you want it to look like. That's why we have Greek Columns going up cast in EIFS. That sort of building has no soul except for the one it has on loan from the rest of the city. The Dallas stadium is awe-inspiring, and you know EXACTLY what is going on in it. The shape is chosen to fit its purpose, and the materials are modern. Qwest Field is an abomination - it looks like you took a 21st century stadium and implanted its head on the body of a 70's stadium(I thought it was nice on the inside, but seeing the exterior makes me want to lose my lunch).
I would have to disagree here. It's because Ford Field doesn't look like a spaceship crashed into the side of it that makes it such a good design.

How does the building not have a soul? It's named after the company that helped Detroit grow to what it was at its peak. Doesn't look much like a box, either: Bird's eye view (http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCC&cp=r1q20682chxz&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=5646232&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1)

The whole retractable, sleek, "saucer stadium" may be considered ground breaking for right now, but as someone pointed out earlier it may just as easily become dated within the next 20 years or so. Think of the enthusiasm people saw cookie cutter baseball stadiums of the '60s, and then the domes of the '80s. Today, people can't implode them fast enough!

speedblue47

August 14th, 2008, 09:52 AM

People were excited about those two phenomenon why? Because they were relatively nice and they were CHEAP. $1.2 Billion is not a quick fix, it is an investment in a team, an organization, and a community. A building doesn't have a soul if it tries to hide what it is - in this case a football stadium. That doesn't mean it has to be bleachers surrounded by staircases with lights on top. Coming up with an elegant solution to providing the amenities required by a use is part of the challenge in architecture.

I think the whole spaceship reference is a cop-out to reference the fact that uses modern materials. The building is like 90% glass on the facade, like most modern structures. It uses to steel super-arches for support, and reinforced concrete for the concourses and the seating levels. The roof is made of multiple layers of materials, which are designed to maximize reflectivity and reduce cooling needs. So is the retractable "roof hole". It also harkens to the original Texas Stadium. There it's a stadium that looks like a stadium that is modern and therefore uses modern materials.

Oh, and it is called Ford Field because the Ford family owns it, not because Henry Ford helped build the city. And that is their right, but the name here adds nothing to the building's soul.

Look, Lucas Oil will serve the city well and I will be proud of it. But I just think that the city missed a chance to do something that would make people think something different about Indy other than "Yep, looks like they are still blue-collar hickville". With buildings like the JW going up, it would have been great to have a new civic landmark that would draw people to the city in droves.

cwilson758

August 14th, 2008, 04:53 PM

I think that The Luke will be a civic landmark that Hoosiers will be proud of for decades. It hasn't even opened and it already has a nickname and the frenzy over the opening is in high gear.

I think the Luke fits nicely, could only be built here, and also as the largest baskeball arena, will serve the City perfectly.

NaptownBoy

August 14th, 2008, 06:32 PM

Speedblue, I think you're missing the point here. Even though LOS lacks the "wow factor" that other new stadiums have, it's form, context, and character is much more valuable, all things considered. This is what I love most about it, despite having such a shitty design. Being right in the heart of a major city, it could help trigger new developments in the vicinity. It has a design unique to us, and will adapt well for functions outside of football--like trade shows, conventions, basketball, etc.

Those new stadia in Texas, Phoenix, New Orleans, and Minneapolis--they're essentially all knockoffs of each other, and frankly, their designs aren't even that great in the first place. You could plop those boys down anywhere in the world and they'd blend right in. Whereas LOS might still be around in 30 years and still unique to the NFL, the spaceships will all be gone and forgotten, having moved on to the next big billion dollar thing.

I guess this comes down to an issue of appeal versus character.

ablerock

August 14th, 2008, 09:36 PM

I think that The Luke will be a civic landmark that Hoosiers will be proud of for decades. It hasn't even opened and it already has a nickname and the frenzy over the opening is in high gear.

Have you heard people using "The Luke" outside of skyscrapercity.com? I'd love for that to be the case, but I haven't myself.

CorrND

August 14th, 2008, 09:49 PM

Have you heard people using "The Luke" outside of skyscrapercity.com? I'd love for that to be the case, but I haven't myself.
I don't think I have either. Not that this matters much, but the wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Oil_Stadium) mentions it. Wait 'til Colts season rolls around...if sportscasters start saying it on air, you'll know it's officially caught on.

"The Luke" reminds me of "The BOB" out in Phoenix when the Diamondbacks stadium was Bank One Ballpark. I always thought that was cool. Too bad they had to change it to Chase Field when Chase bought Bank One.

IndyYeah

August 15th, 2008, 04:38 AM

arenn

August 15th, 2008, 05:14 AM

indyfiend

August 15th, 2008, 04:15 PM

Have you heard people using "The Luke" outside of skyscrapercity.com? I'd love for that to be the case, but I haven't myself.

I was watching some of the coverage of the grand opening party and they referred to the stadium as "The Luke" a few times. Not sure if it was channel 13 or 8, but it seems to be catching on.

CorrND

August 15th, 2008, 05:17 PM

I was just down at LOS today. There are serious, serious problems with the landscape architecture design around the building. It's like they ran out of money or time and just filled it in with whatever cheap thing they could. The design is awful and construction quality worse. Almost every piece of concrete is already severely spalled.
Wow, that's terrible. I'll get a first-hand look tomorrow.

cwilson758

August 15th, 2008, 06:15 PM

Isn't Cba the lead LA? I hope that this isn't their fault...

NaptownBoy

August 15th, 2008, 07:07 PM

indyfiend

August 15th, 2008, 07:24 PM

I am really going to miss the Dome. It's been an imposing part of our city's skyline for a quarter century and helped jumpstart Downtown into what it is today. Having attended many an event there, it just felt like home.

It was strange when MSA was demolished, not having those 2 white domed roofs at each end of downtown. Now with the dome coming down, it will really be weird. Can't wait to see how it opens up the view of downtown traveling east on Washington.

speedblue47

August 15th, 2008, 11:57 PM

I understand what you mean, and I agree that it should do wonders for downtown(I remember a few of us referring to the area around it as "Lucasville"). I agree that many or most people will be proud of it. Actually, I am a bit too(though that is spoiled by the public financing part of the deal, which I realize is just the only way these things get built anymore). But I think it could have been more, and should have been.

Actually it's odd. People seem to be willing to accept this for a publicly funded $720 million project, but when a private developer wants to put up a 20+ story tower and doesn't nail every detail, you are ALL OVER THEM. Look development is not a perfect game, there is always going to be someone who isn't going to like some development. And there are going to be people who back the silliest projects known to man. I just think that it is only proper that if the taxpaying public is going to fund a project(especially a vast majority of it), then it should expect nothing but the best. And I don't think we did.

But either way, I'm looking forward to getting back to Indy and watching them WHOMP some Pats tail!

NaptownBoy

August 16th, 2008, 12:42 AM

It was strange when MSA was demolished, not having those 2 white domed roofs at each end of downtown. Now with the dome coming down, it will really be weird. Can't wait to see how it opens up the view of downtown traveling east on Washington.
For years, I've always had a sense of pride when driving down I-70 and seeing that big, white, pillowy roof dominate in the distance. The Dome means a lot to us Colts fans, in many ways.

But alas, all good things must come to an end, and I'll be even prouder when they take that fucker down for good.

Mr Peanut

August 16th, 2008, 01:18 AM

I was just down at LOS today. There are serious, serious problems with the landscape architecture design around the building. It's like they ran out of money or time and just filled it in with whatever cheap thing they could. The design is awful and construction quality worse. Almost every piece of concrete is already severely spalled.

I won't get to see it until tomorrow, but I do remember them saying on the news that the landscaping won't be finished for a month or two. Could that be part of the problem?

philaustin06

August 16th, 2008, 06:43 AM

But alas, all good things must come to an end, and I'll be even prouder when they take that fucker down for good.

hahah love it.

bradyusi

August 16th, 2008, 07:25 AM

i was walking around the site after the fence was down and in a few places around the site, the concrete was walked on before cured.. as well as the spalling, which i did not notice, just don't seem like the type of thing that will be allowed to be left once the project is 100%. the landscape will come in.. i hope. it's gotta get better. right?

although, i wish they would have picked another type of sign for the colts.. the vertical neon makes me think pacers.. and i don't want that reputation for the boys in blue.

aavmarine

August 16th, 2008, 03:10 PM

Got this off from Coltsfreaks.com. There are plenty more: http://s510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/coltfreaks/?special_track=nav_album_album

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/coltfreaks/104_0788.jpg

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/coltfreaks/104_0800.jpg

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/coltfreaks/104_0783.jpg

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/coltfreaks/104_0794.jpg

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/coltfreaks/104_0813.jpg

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/coltfreaks/104_0880.jpg

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/coltfreaks/104_0886.jpg

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/coltfreaks/104_0712.jpg

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/coltfreaks/104_0744.jpg

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/coltfreaks/104_0745.jpg

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s341/coltfreaks/104_0902.jpg

arenn

August 16th, 2008, 03:57 PM

"Please don't call it the Luke"

http://www.ibj.com/html/detail_page_Full.asp?content=18734

Lucas plea: Don’t call it 'The Luke'
Stadium naming-rights owner says nickname honors rival
Sat. August 16 - 2008
Anthony Schoettle - aschoettle@ibj.com

Some local sports broadcasters, print journalists and Indianapolis Colts fans are giving an unintentional assist to an opponent of one of the team’s biggest corporate allies. Officials for Lucas Oil Products Inc. are imploring fans and media not to refer to the team’s new stadium as The Luke, a nickname that has cropped up on sports talk radio shows and been repeated in print and on TV. The nickname seems to be gaining momentum, and that doesn’t sit well with Lucas brass already playing defense against New Jersey-based Lukoil Co.

California based-Lucas Oil signed a 20-year, $121.5 million naming-rights deal for the Colts’ new stadium. The 63,000-seat retractable-roof venue has been dubbed Lucas Oil Stadium. Part of the value of the deal will be eroded, said Forrest Lucas, a former Indiana trucker who founded Lucas Oil, if the stadium is widely called by another name.

“Calling the stadium The Luke doesn’t sell a dime’s worth of products for us,” Lucas said following a recent inspection of the facility. “This will be a place we intend to show Lucas Oil to the world, so we’re eager to protect the integrity of the name.”

The Luke is the worst possible nickname, Lucas said, because one of his company’s competitors is Russianowned, Lukoil, which is making a big push in North America.

“This is a big deal to us,” Lucas said. “We’d prefer people call it Lucas Oil Stadium, but call it anything but The Luke. What people are doing by calling it that is doing one of my competitors a multimillion-dollar favor.”

Though Lukoil is relatively new to America, its rivalry with Lucas Oil has already become bitter.

Lucas Oil Products filed a trademark infringement lawsuit against Lukoil in June 2006 in a New York federal court. Lukoil countered by accusing Lucas Oil of the very same thing. In a settlement ironed out last summer, Lukoil agreed not to refer to its mascot called “Big Luke,” or simply “Luke,” in the United States. But the company itself is still often referred to as Luk or Luke.

Team effort

The Colts are doing what they can to stop their new home venue from acquiring a nickname, particularly one disdained by its name sponsor.

“Forrest Lucas has talked to us about this, and we know it’s important to him,” said Pete Ward, Colts senior executive vice president. “All of our team correspondence refers to the facility as Lucas Oil Stadium; every time we talk about the facility publicly or otherwise, we call it by its proper name. We are doing our best to promote it in every way as Lucas Oil Stadium. And the stadium has five of the biggest neon signs in the state—one on each side and one on the roof—proclaiming it as Lucas Oil Stadium. We’re going to continue to be vigilant and do whatever we can do.”

Neither Colts nor Lucas Oil officials have held formal discussions with local or national broadcasters and journalists about the facility’s name. But Lucas said he’s happy to explain his position to anyone who will listen.

David Morton, president of Sunrise Sports Group, a local sports marketing consultancy, understands Lucas’ position, but doesn’t think trumpeting the issue is a smart move.

“Lucas is not only his company’s name, but his family’s name, and a nickname repositions the brand of his own name and that of his company, so I can see why he’d be sensitive,” Morton said. “But Mr. Lucas should be careful. He doesn’t want to be perceived as the bad guy or as sour grapes.”

Morton suggests Lucas focus on marketing his own company and its association with the new stadium, and less on a corporate rival.

“He has to be careful not to get people thinking about Lukoil,” Morton said. “He wants people thinking about Lucas Oil, not a competitor.”

There was some resistance to calling facilities by their corporate name in the 1980s and early 1990s, as broadcast networks were not keen on giving free on-air exposure to companies who were not advertisers. City officials in the 1990s had several discussions with ESPN, NBC and other NFL broadcasters to get them to refer on air to the RCA Dome by its proper name, not its original name—the Hoosier Dome.

“Most people in sports and broadcasting now understand the importance of these naming-rights dollars, and those types of problems with the national media have largely gone away,” said Mark Rosentraub, former IUPUI dean and a noted sports economist and author of books on sports business issues. “But it’s a different story with fans. That’s much more difficult to control, and a nickname can quickly become ubiquitous.”

Twisted titles

Jacobs Field in Cleveland was nicknamed The Jake, which persisted even after Progressive Corp., an insurance company, bought the naming rights earlier this year. Heinz Field in Pittsburgh has been dubbed The Mustard Palace. In Tampa Bay, the Buccaneers’ former stadium was nicknamed The Big Sombrero, and the team’s new facility, Raymond James Stadium, took on the name The New Sombrero.

And it’s not uncommon for fans to manipulate or shorten a venue’s corporate moniker. The home ballpark of the Chicago White Sox, U.S. Cellular Field, was quickly tabbed “The Cell” by fans and local sportscasters.

“The Luke” started to take root in Indiana earlier this year.

“It’s a label that seems to be spreading pretty fast,” Morton said.

Media references can fan the flames quickly, Rosentraub said, and exposure through the Internet can spread the nickname and entrench it in people’s minds even faster than traditional media.

“Once something like this gets started,” Rosentraub said, “it’s difficult to stop. But this is a strategic and critical investment in this company’s effort to roll its motor oil out to a wider audience. So I’m sure Lucas will do whatever he has to do to protect his investment.”

arenn

August 16th, 2008, 07:40 PM

Ok, so saying every piece of concrete is bad is an overstatement. But there's a lot of what looks to be low-quality work. Here's a snap that shows spalled and cracked concrete.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3213/2768505624_f9857c7048_b.jpg

aavmarine

August 16th, 2008, 08:00 PM

I can't tell if that is part of a side or ceiling. But either way, part of a molding was on that part of the concrete to form it. Apparently, it looks like the workers didn't put any kind of lubericant on the mold. That is why you see the little holes where rocks are suppose to be. But I'm sure they will be going over it again within the next couple weeks. Don't forget, they did say workers will still be on site for the next couple to six months doing the "attention to detail" work.

IndyYeah

August 16th, 2008, 09:47 PM

Is calling the stadium"The Luke" a bad thing? The people who are not part of the decision making process of corporate America cannot even call something what they want?

ak72

August 16th, 2008, 11:01 PM

^^
Its not a matter of calling it what we like, any other nickname would be fine, but since one of Lucas Oil's main competitors is LukeOil we are promoting the other brand. Lucas oil payed millions and millions of dollars to have their name repeated when the stadium is mentioned. It's adevertising and it drives sales. If everyone calls it the luke those sales go to their competitor. It would be like everyone calling the RCA dome the sony or panasonic dome.

cwilson758

August 16th, 2008, 11:32 PM

IndyYeah

August 17th, 2008, 12:04 AM

The taxpayers paid for it right? Did he spend the money 720 for the thing?

IndyYeah

August 17th, 2008, 12:06 AM

NaptownBoy

August 17th, 2008, 01:43 AM

Aw, man. This whole time I've been calling it "LOS" or "The Barn" (because it reminds me of a barn and a colt is a young horse).

They should've named it the BP Palace and called it a day (BP for Bart Peterson)

arenn

August 17th, 2008, 04:34 AM

Lukoil is a gigantic Russian oil company.

skobabe8

August 17th, 2008, 10:04 AM

What a BABY! Sorry, but it's "The Luke" and until now, I had NEVER heard of Lucoil. His quote that it doesn't sell one of his products is a kick in the face to the TAX PAYERS that sepnt $720 MILLION on this damn thing. We shouldbe able to callit whatever we effing want!

Are you serious? Calling it Lucas Oil Stadium is going to ruin your life??? This company paid a shitload of money to the Colts for this stadium...its not that hard to call it by its full name, is it????

aavmarine

August 17th, 2008, 04:48 PM

Are you serious? Calling it Lucas Oil Stadium is going to ruin your life??? This company paid a shitload of money to the Colts for this stadium...its not that hard to call it by its full name, is it????

No it's noit going to ruin anyones life. But anyone that is defending all this, is either Lucas himself or his wife or someone that is working for him. I understand about the tv and conventions and other stuff. But please, just because you lived in Indiana way back when, but spent a good part of your life in Cali, now you think you can come back here and tell the people what to do or say. We don't work for him. We didn't sign any contract with him. And as far as his family not making a dime. Well, it looks like he is doing pretty good. I mean, blue sapphire's around a trash can. Come on...And if you want to get technical about all this and he demands me to call it "Lucas Oil Stadium" and by not some nickname he doesn't like because it will not make him money, then put us all on the payroll for sales. I mean, technically, by demanding us to do this, is free advertisment for him, right? By the way, has he and his wife moved their company to Indianapolis yet?

Mr Peanut

August 17th, 2008, 08:02 PM

What a BABY! Sorry, but it's "The Luke" and until now, I had NEVER heard of Lucoil. His quote that it doesn't sell one of his products is a kick in the face to the TAX PAYERS that sepnt $720 MILLION on this damn thing. We shouldbe able to callit whatever we effing want!

Exactly, cry me a river. I've personally never called it The Luke, but I think I'll start now just because of this ridiculous whining.

philaustin06

August 17th, 2008, 09:14 PM

While I agree with you guys completely, Forrest Lucas did pay a staggering 121 Million dollars to put his company name on and around the stadium. Sure it was financed by our tax dollars, but respectively, this man has put a lot of money into the stadium, if he dosen't want us calling it by his competitors name, I would understand that.

IndyYeah

August 17th, 2008, 10:40 PM

CorrND

August 17th, 2008, 11:00 PM

Did anybody else go to the tours yesterday? I thought it was a huge clusterfuck. If you imagine what a stadium is like right after a game ends and everybody starts flooding the concourses, that's what it was like everywhere. Everywhere that was open, that is. For some reason, they were restricting access to huge parts of the stadium. Almost everything above the main-level concourse was closed. And there was almost no signage or people directing you where to go. In fact, I think the only signs I saw were "Access Restricted" or "Exit --->." They were basically saying stay out or leave.

Logistical nightmare though it was, the stadium is really amazing. I especially liked that you could walk almost right up to the point where the trusses are anchored in the main concourse (they put a small fence around it, probably just to make sure people don't climb on it). And they've got these huge ceiling fans on the concourses that blow an ENORMOUS amount of air. Very nice touch to keep everybody comfortable and they'll probably help with heating expenses.

We've got quite a gem there.

hoosier

August 17th, 2008, 11:05 PM

I am really going to miss the Dome. It's been an imposing part of our city's skyline for a quarter century and helped jumpstart Downtown into what it is today. Having attended many an event there, it just felt like home.

That is true, but people forgot about MSA pretty quickly when Conseco opened.

The Dome was an important part of Indy's history, but what is nice is that its site will not remain vacant for years and years.

And Conseco and the Luke were both built very near their predecessors, meaning that Indy's sport venues are still right downtown.

hoosier

August 17th, 2008, 11:15 PM

If Forrest Lucas wants the Colts' organization and local media to refer to the new stadium by its full name then OK, but to expect the average citizen in the course of casual conversation to do the same is ludicrous.

Most Americans have never heard of Lukoil, so just by bringing up the issue Lucas is doing his rival a big favor.

One final point: did Lucas pay the full $120 million for naming rights up front or will he pay on a per annum basis?

NaptownBoy

August 18th, 2008, 01:10 AM

Mr Peanut

August 18th, 2008, 09:47 AM

indyfiend

August 18th, 2008, 03:55 PM

I went on the 10:00 tour on Saturday. It's definitely a building that fills you with pride if you're from the area and pumps you up if you're a Colts fan. I got the opportunity to shake Mr. Lucas's hand and talk with him and his wife a little bit. They seem like very genuine people and I'm glad the stadium name has a Hoosier connection.

The media should refer to the stadium by the proper name "Lucas Oil Stadium". That's what he paid for. As for me, I'll still refer to it as "The Luke". I doubt that will affect his sales much.

I loved seeing the stadium, but you're right about the organization. I waited 45 minutes to get up the escelator, but there wasn't anywhere to go once you got there. All in all, I love the stadium and can't wait to see the first Colts game in it this weekend!

ablerock

August 18th, 2008, 04:54 PM

Bottom line: Hoosiers are going to shorten the name as much as possible. We're lazy talkers.

---

I went to the 6pm tour on Saturday. Conseco Fieldhouse is still nicer. It has an attention to detail and restrained taste that's missing at the Luke. The sheer amount of white-painted cinder block walls and budget-white drop-ceilings one sees everywhere at LOS is disgusting. There are little pockets of brick around the concession stands, but they're overwhelmed by all the concrete and cinder block. Conseco is nostalgia done right. Lucas Oil Stadium is trying too hard and isn't as classy.

Some of the sponsorship areas are great, others are horribly designed and poorly installed. There's a nice variety of restaurants with more choices than the Dome.

There are large crowd graphics everywhere that people were making fun of. They've blown up shots of people's faces during games and it looks like a blind man picked them out. People's eyes are closed or they look angry or bored. Not good when they're huge 3' heads.

The screens on each end are amazing. They're basically the biggest HD monitors you've ever seen. The seating bowl is amazing too. It's going to be a great place to watch a game.

cwilson758

August 18th, 2008, 05:19 PM

Are you serious? Calling it Lucas Oil Stadium is going to ruin your life??? This company paid a shitload of money to the Colts for this stadium...its not that hard to call it by its full name, is it????

I am dead serious! As mentioned here, of course it should be referred as "Lucas Oil Stadium" by the media, in print, etc, but for the average fan, he is an egomaniac. "The Luke" gives it an endering quality and in this world of constant advertising, a bit of a respite.

IndyYeah

August 19th, 2008, 04:00 AM

I am dead serious! As mentioned here, of course it should be referred as "Lucas Oil Stadium" by the media, in print, etc, but for the average fan, he is an egomaniac. "The Luke" gives it an endering quality and in this world of constant advertising, a bit of a respite.

WhiteSox Park in Chicago is US Cellular Field, fans call it "The Cell":)

cwilson758

August 19th, 2008, 05:14 PM

WhiteSox Park in Chicago is US Cellular Field, fans call it "The Cell":)

They better not...people will probably assume that they are talking about that awful Jennifer Lopez movie.

skobabe8

August 19th, 2008, 06:21 PM

I am dead serious! As mentioned here, of course it should be referred as "Lucas Oil Stadium" by the media, in print, etc, but for the average fan, he is an egomaniac. "The Luke" gives it an endering quality and in this world of constant advertising, a bit of a respite.

Good points, actually. Its one thing to ask the media to call it by its full name. Its another to ask the fans.

runwaydiva

August 19th, 2008, 10:35 PM

To be honest I can't recall the last time I heard someone actually use "Indianapolis" instead of that "gross" four letter word-.... I.N.D.Y....(just my opinion) it just seems a little cheap.. sorry..

aavmarine

August 19th, 2008, 10:38 PM

philaustin06

August 19th, 2008, 11:15 PM

Please, ablerock, tell us all how you would make it better than any other stadium? Especially, since it twice as big as Conseco. Since this stadium was open to the public, alot of people have complained about what ever. But, no one has ever said what they would do better. Why weren't any of you guy on the board of design back in 2004-05. You all seem to no everything about architecture, construction, interior and exterior design, planning an event, etc, etc.
dude every single post of yours that ive read has been negative and rude. Not everyone is going to like the stadium, this a message board and everyone has their own opinion, realize that or else you're going to be wasting a lot of time trying to figure out how to insult everyone.

aavmarine

August 20th, 2008, 03:36 AM

dude every single post of yours that ive read has been negative and rude. Not everyone is going to like the stadium, this a message board and everyone has their own opinion, realize that or else you're going to be wasting a lot of time trying to figure out how to insult everyone.

I'm sorry, how many post of mine are negative and rude? I understand not every one is going to like the stadium. But when you have spent time helping build this stadium, and also have friends who have helped build this stadium, then you don't take criticism to good. I also undetstand not everything is going to be 100% perfect. But people have been there one time and some are very negative. Not just on this site, but other ones too.

pig

August 20th, 2008, 03:55 AM

They better not...people will probably assume that they are talking about that awful Jennifer Lopez movie.

I always thought "The Cell" was a perfect name for a building designed to hold White Sox fans.

arenn

August 20th, 2008, 06:03 AM

You got that right, pig.

indyfiend

August 20th, 2008, 03:29 PM

CorrND

August 20th, 2008, 03:55 PM

I wonder how much money I've put toward this stadium in the form of restaurant taxes....

skobabe8

August 20th, 2008, 05:50 PM

I always thought "The Cell" was a perfect name for a building designed to hold White Sox fans.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/pr/subs2/siexclusive/2005/pr/subs/siexclusive/11/01/world.series1107/tx_series.jpg

indyfiend

August 20th, 2008, 06:28 PM

http://reds.enquirer.com/2003/04/16/attack2_zoom.jpg
http://images.ibsys.com/2002/0920/1678568.jpg
:lol:

IndyYeah

August 21st, 2008, 04:29 AM

That is that guy named Lague or something like that. Jumped Tom Gamboa? Same incident. All over the headlines a few years ago, and heard his name in the past year or so.

pig

August 21st, 2008, 04:47 AM

skobabe8

August 21st, 2008, 06:57 PM

I almost held that back because of the Gamboa thing. Sox fans don't deserve to be associated with the Ligues. Anyway, the proper riposte would have been to associate our building a giant barn with our ranking on those damned fattest states lists.

1. That happened in 2002. There have been a few other incidents on the other side of town since then.

2. Since I am from Indiana, ripping my home state would definately not be the 'proper riposte'.

ablerock

August 21st, 2008, 10:48 PM

I'm sorry, how many post of mine are negative and rude? I understand not every one is going to like the stadium. But when you have spent time helping build this stadium, and also have friends who have helped build this stadium, then you don't take criticism to good. I also undetstand not everything is going to be 100% perfect. But people have been there one time and some are very negative. Not just on this site, but other ones too.

:) Hey bro, I'm not ripping on the people who built the place at all. Please don't take it personally. I can understand your attachment to the project, as you spent so much time and energy there. You should all be proud of the work you put into the place. It's an amazing structure and feat of engineering. I'm definitely proud of all the hoosiers who sweat putting that building together. Thanks!

If it makes you feel any better, the 3 friends I went with were creaming themselves while we toured it. :)

My critiques are pointed at the people up top who made the design decisions, not the people who executed those decisions.

I'm a designer. My mind is trained to pay attention to details and focus the way things work together, from way-finding signage and typeface choices, to the shape of interior spaces and the color of the walls. I have high standards. I hold everything in Indy up to the standards of the rest of the world. I read a lot about design and architecture and am constantly analyzing the space around me. It's how my brain works.

I can't help but point out glaring flaws, when $700+ million was put into the building. For that kind of money it should be near-perfect. I'm sorry, but it's not.

You know the private clubs in LOS, such as the Bakers & Daniels club? That's how the whole building should look. And I don't mean it has to be all gold and granite, I just mean there needs to be a level of custom detailing everywhere. Huge swaths of white cinderblock walls, plain drywall, and budget drop ceilings have no business existing in the public areas of a "world-class" facility. Especially the generic drop ceilings. :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3224/2778594384_da338353ba_b.jpg

CorrND

August 21st, 2008, 10:55 PM

Oh man, I'm having a flashback to the crowd around the escalator at the north end of the stadium. Jee-zus, those public tours were poorly executed. One of the people I was with said that they could have made a case study of the organization on Saturday as an example of EXACTLY WHAT NOT TO DO.

I'm sorry to bring it up again. I just hate crowds, especially when I have to deal with it for two hours straight and particularly when just a little extra thought could have made it so much smoother.

Done. I feel better now.

pig

August 22nd, 2008, 04:17 AM

1. That happened in 2002. There have been a few other incidents on the other side of town since then.

2. Since I am from Indiana, ripping my home state would definately not be the 'proper riposte'.

1. My point was that I regretted that the incident got dredged up, and that my intent wasn't malevolent.

2. They're just jokes. The phrase "proper riposte" was meant to underline that. Being from Indiana is an excuse to make fun of it not a reason not to. It's just a state like any other. It is neither holy nor perfect--sort of like your mom.

3. Why are we making lists?

4. I need it to be Sunday so I can get inside the stadium.

speedblue47

August 22nd, 2008, 10:09 AM

So, since this is built and opened, shouldn't this thread be relegated to the NASF Archives? Just a thought since we are wasting posts sniping each other over sports team loyalties.

GarfieldPark

August 22nd, 2008, 06:01 PM

I suppose its time to move it into the archives now that its up and ready. First game in the stadium is today. Noblesville HS vs Fishers HS - starting at 6:00 pm tonight. I wonder who will go down in the record books as scoring the first touchdown in LOS? Colts vs Bills in preseason play on Sunday. The Indy Star has some excellent pictures and information on the stadium today in its 18 page pullout section.

ablerock

August 22nd, 2008, 09:56 PM

I wonder who will go down in the record books as scoring the first touchdown in LOS?

Some spoiled fucker from Fishers. ;-)

indyfiend

August 22nd, 2008, 10:31 PM

Some spoiled fucker from Fishers. ;-)

I do believe that Fishers' starting quarterback's name is Neil Spoiledfucker, so you're probably right:lol:

aavmarine

August 23rd, 2008, 01:47 AM

Pretty cool clip of a timelaps of the stadium. Dorky music...

http://gannett.a.mms.mavenapps.net/mms/rt/1/site/gannett-indianapolis-532-pub01-live/current/launch.html?maven_playerId=immersiveplayer&maven_referralPlaylistId=ceaa4036a6088c1ab6b89b27f27db151f86d1395&maven_referralObject=828524212

rockin'.baltimorean

August 25th, 2008, 03:56 AM

cool-lookin' stadium. didn't know that back window also opens. it's another great addition. this stadium's gonna' be a winner!!:okay:

cwilson758

August 25th, 2008, 04:02 PM

The Luke looked GREAT on TV last night, too bad the Colts couldn't

philaustin06

August 26th, 2008, 02:24 AM

The Luke looked GREAT on TV last night, too bad the Colts couldn't

we're a mess without peyton.

IndyTypeGuy

August 26th, 2008, 10:24 AM

hoosier

August 27th, 2008, 05:09 AM

I think Gray with much work could be a very good NFL QB. You can see moments of brilliance with him. That of course comes complete with 4 INT bookmarks. He is a big play threat in the air and on the ground. He needs lots of practice and work with Manning. Remember even Manning threw a ton of INTs early in his career. Sorgi despite all his work with the team over the years continues to look like a deer in headlights and is absolutely no big play threat. This team has no chance and no future with Sorgi. I hope the Colts pick up this other guy and work with him.

Yes, Sorgi sucks. The Colts cannot stretch the field vertically with him at QB.

Face it, if the Patriots lost Brady or the Cowboys lost Romo they would be in a load of trouble as well. There just aren't any decent QBs that will tolerate being a backup to Manning and never playing.

IndyYeah

September 9th, 2008, 02:42 AM

What were everyones thoughts about the stadiums look as well as skyline, commentators comments etc?

arenn

September 9th, 2008, 03:09 AM

I went to the Colts-Bengals pre-season game. (Alas, the Colts didn't go to it - or any other game yet this year as far as I can tell). I thought the interior was pretty good. No, it's not Conseco, but unlike for Conseco, they weren't going for a retro-nostalgia a la Camden Yards type look. Rather, it was more industrial. The interior is like a cross between the inside of a factory and a 60's high school - and in a good way. I don't think it is perfect, and I'll write a full review at some point, but I think it is pretty solid and most of the deficiencies easily correctable without breaking the bank.

The Bud Light zone area is awesome. Even when the crowd had thinned to nothing, that place was rocking. When the window is open, it's like a giant party deck. I wish that there was an extendable platform that could project about 30-40 feet through the open window - that would be mega-awesome.

The big problem is that there is no equivalent area on the south side. In particular, when you're in the south concourse at the terrace level you can't see into the stadium, meaning nobody can really take advantage of the skyline view. I know it is a tradeoff with seating, but the Bud Light zone got it right.

I like how the interior in multiple places uses an almost "movie screen" letterboxing (the window framing the skyline is a good example). It's sort of an ode to jumbotron that is cool. Speaking of, the jumbotrons are awesome.

The circulation problem is real, serious, and won't go away, because the logical entrance point is the north of the stadium. People aren't going to want to enter on the other sides because then you miss, as the gate personnel described it to me, "all the cool stuff".

The real problem is the surrounding plaza/landscaping which is horrible. I suspect cost cutting hit this hard.

Bottom line: I think $25 million would more or less fix all the correctable problems. With a $720 million price tag, it's a shame they couldn't have found a way to do $750 and done a totally first class job.

ablerock

September 9th, 2008, 04:58 PM

What were everyones thoughts about the stadiums look as well as skyline, commentators comments etc?

For the most part, it looked impressive. It looked better earlier in the evening when there was still light.

After it got dark, the skyline was a bit black. The convention center area, particularly the dome, was all blackened out. I know the area like the back of my hand and it was hard to make things out.

Victory Field and The Luke, with opened roof, looked great together.

They definitely need more accent lighting on the roof of LOS. The bottom details looked nice, but the roof was just pitch black. It looked like a big black box with a hole cut into it. Some simple lights on all the steel would look great and help the eye understand what's going on up there, not to mention illuminate the giant white Lucas Oil sign.

cwilson758

September 9th, 2008, 05:46 PM

I thought this was cool that I snapped, showing how massive it is from the base:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/cwilson758/Indy%20Pics/LookingUpAtTheLuke.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/cwilson758/Indy%20Pics/SkylinefromtheLuke.jpg

hoosier

September 12th, 2008, 06:27 PM

Nice stadium, disappointing team.:cry:

IndyYeah

September 13th, 2008, 02:26 AM

I have not been by the stadium in a month or so. My comments are about cleanup and landscaping, and other plans by the tracks. The lower picture is the convention center expansion I take. What will all that be as in relation to the new stadium, with the tracks also there?
Were the cracks in the new stadium visible that we saw in pictures a couple weeks ago?

GarfieldPark

September 13th, 2008, 05:19 AM

That area where you can see the dirt is a piece of land that may see some type of future convention related expansion. The main convention center expansion that is currently planned is going in where the RCA Dome currently sits. They've started doing some minor demolition work around the old RCA Dome - but it won't be until they turn off the fans that are blowing air into the dome to keep the roof up - that the roof will deflate and the real demolition work will start. (I've heard they plan to cut up the teflon roof and sell it as souvenirs.) Anyway - all of the convention center expansion will be north of the railroad tracks. There will be an underground walkway coming from the CC that will go under South Street and connect to the floor level of the stadium (about 20 feet below the surface level.) This connection will add over 200,000 sq feet of convention space to the convention facilities.

You can see the area where the underground walkway will be built in the picture you were talking about - behind the black mesh / cloth wall. That area north of South Street and south of the Railroad tracks could see a future convention related expansion. Maybe more space. ideally, a mix would be cool. Add another 150,000 sq. ft of space but also build a big hotel into the project and maybe some street front commercial. Its nice to have the availability of more land to expand a convention center onto. Most cities don't. Chicago has been able to keep expanding the McCormick Center very successfully - but a few places like Cincinnati and Cleveland have had significant difficulties figuring out how to expand. btw - I just read in the paper a week or so ago that the lawsuit relating to the Capitol Improvements Board's acquisition of the land we are talking about - was just settled out of court. An agreement was reached on the price and the jury was dismissed that was supposed to help determine a fair market price for the land. Now that the City / C.I.B. owns it - they can go ahead with the underground walkway construction.

IndyYeah

September 13th, 2008, 08:05 PM

Thanks for the information. I do hope that it all works out and all the necessary land is use correctly and timely. Are there cranes on the dome site? I ask, because Corey's long shot photo from the north appeared to have cranes over there. I was not sure and of the correct area of the JW, being featured in a photo from that angle.
When will the real demolition take place,and convention construction be? Maybe winter?

NaptownBoy

September 15th, 2008, 04:25 AM

My beloved Colts are struggling right now. Let's hope they get it together before the playoffs.

NaptownBoy

September 15th, 2008, 04:29 AM

July 1982
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/jmg3xchamp/scan0004-1.jpg
June 1983
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee269/jmg3xchamp/scan0005-1.jpg

cwilson758

September 16th, 2008, 04:24 PM

wow, the old ICC looks, well, um, OLD. I wish that those pics were looking north. Talk about changes!

IndyYeah

September 17th, 2008, 04:36 AM

Pink Floyd played the RCA Dome if I am not mistaken. Richard Wright died the other day, he was 65. The basis of sound for the band.

cwilson758

September 17th, 2008, 03:44 PM

indyfiend

September 18th, 2008, 03:54 PM

FYI, I attended the concert on Saturday. I am a big fan of Keith Urban and LeAnn Rimes, I couldn't care less about Chesney, and I must say that the sound is definitely an issue. Obviously the number of concerts will be low, but this is something that needs to be addressed prior to the next concert.

If I remember correctly, Conseco Fieldhouse had some of the same acoustics issues that LOS is having now. Maybe they will get together and use some of the same solutions they used there.

hoosier

September 18th, 2008, 08:17 PM

Wow, those are great shots of the RCA Dome under construction! I had never before seen any pictures of the Dome being built.:cheers:

hoosier

September 22nd, 2008, 05:19 PM

The LUKE is cursed!!!!:wallbash:

It would have been better for the initials of the stadium to NOT be L.O.S. since that is all the Colts have done there so far.

skobabe8

September 22nd, 2008, 11:42 PM

For you Indy folks, have things improved as far as getting around the stadium? There were alot of people during the preseason saying moving around the concourses was not fun. Have things changed?

arenn

October 16th, 2008, 03:32 PM

So you are telling me that on this $720 million stadium, of which far more than the quoted $15.7 million went for a retractable roof, the city won't be able to open it 90% of the time because they didn't spend $500K on drainage? Holy cow. There needs to be a serious audit of the design decisions on this arena.

This stadium was not sold to the public as an indoor facility with a roof that occasionally but rarely open.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081016/SPORTS03/810160492

Opening the roof no easy decision
No drainage means no chances will be taken with weather
By Steve Ballard
Posted: October 16, 2008

The differences in the retractable-roof stadiums built to house NFL teams are evident not only on the blueprints but in the mind-sets of their occupants.

In Phoenix, Houston and the soon-to-be home of the Cowboys in Dallas, the stadiums are regarded as outdoor venues with the roofs to be closed only when weather conditions force it. But at newly opened Lucas Oil Stadium, where Sunday the Colts played a home game in the sunshine for the first time since moving to Indianapolis in 1984, stadium and team officials view the $720 million facility more as an indoor venue with the roof to be opened only when conditions allow it.

John Klipsch, executive director of the Indiana Stadium and Convention Authority, said fans should think of it like they would a sunroof on their car.

"Ninety percent of the time, you're going to have it closed," he said. "When it's a nice day, you open it. But when it rains or snows or you're running the air conditioner, you close it."

Questions arose about the policy regarding the $15.7 million retractable roof after it was closed for the Sept. 21 game against the Jacksonville Jaguars on what turned out to be a pleasant afternoon. But 90 minutes before kickoff, when NFL rules mandate the decision has to be made to either open or close the roof for the duration of the game, Colts senior executive vice president Pete Ward said weather radar showed enough thunderstorm activity in the area to force the prudent choice.

"Whenever there is an imminent threat of rain, we're going to close the roof," Ward said.

That's because Lucas Oil Stadium is not waterproof. Unlike the facilities in Houston and Phoenix, the field has no drainage. Also, speakers, scoreboards and other electronic equipment are exposed.

Klipsch said that was a conscious decision made at the outset of the negotiations to build a new stadium. The administration of then-Mayor Bart Peterson wanted a modern version of the RCA Dome that could host a variety of events. Colts owner Jim Irsay wanted a retractable roof. Both were looking for places to trim costs. A drainage system would have added around $500,000, with full waterproofing adding several million more.

"Budget was a concern, yes, but you can't do all things with one building," Klipsch said. "This was designed to be a multi-use facility. You're not going to play basketball games or have conventions and trade shows with the roof open.

"This isn't just about Lucas Oil Stadium. It's also about what makes the convention center work and what makes the two work together. That's why you can't treat it like it's an open-air facility. We don't need an outdoor football stadium in Downtown Indianapolis."
Different strategies

Mike Lloyd is an engineer at CMX Sports Engineers in Phoenix, which designed the removable grass field and drainage system for University of Phoenix Stadium, which the Arizona Cardinals have called home since 2006. He finds the attitude regarding Lucas Oil Stadium a bit curious but conceded Indianapolis is under different constraints than Arizona.

"If in fact everybody is genuine in saying they want an indoor stadium where every once in a while they open up the roof, that's one way of looking at it," he said. "The other way to look at it, and the way we looked at it here, was let's make it as flexible as possible. But if I were building a stadium in the Midwest or Northeast, I can see where you could make different decisions."

The Houston Texans are playing all of their home games this season outdoors because of the damage done to the Reliant Stadium roof by Hurricane Ike. With a palletized grass field and a drainage system, it was built to handle rain. But SMG-Reliant Park president Shea Guinn said the reality of a retractable-roof facility is that the roof is going to be closed more often than it's open.

"From our experience in seven seasons here, I don't find (the mind-set in Indianapolis) that peculiar," he said.

In Phoenix and Houston, heat is often more of a concern than rain in deciding when to close the roof. Colts fans and players got a taste of that Sunday as temperatures approached 90 degrees, with an open roof meaning no air conditioning.

"I was in the shade when I was on the sideline, but on the field, it was warm," linebacker Gary Brackett said. "But it was a great time -- great football weather. Let's experience the elements a little bit."
Fan opinion

Charlie Koehler, Greenwood, a season ticket holder since the Colts first came to town, was at Sunday's game and said many fans were caught unaware. "People who were underneath the windows were in the sun all day and I don't think they knew they would be," he said.

Among them was Troy West, Noblesville, who abandoned his seat and watched the second half standing on a concourse.

"I saw a lot of people holding towels and programs over their heads (for shade)," he said. "I guess I'm being a spoiled Colts fan who enjoyed sitting in the cool for 25 years. But when it's that warm, they ought to close it."

Kevin Eck, Carmel, strongly disagreed. If he had his way, the roof would be open for any game not played in the rain or snow.

"I hated the dome. I couldn't stand going down there on a beautiful fall day and having to go inside to watch a football game," he said. "A lot of people didn't realize they were going to be in the sun and now that they know, they can adjust accordingly.

"Outdoor football, to some degree, has finally arrived in Central Indiana. If it's 45 degrees and sunny, I want it open. If it's not, I'm going to have to ask why they paid for a retractable roof."

Ward noted the roof has been open for four of the five games, including preseason, the Colts have played in their new stadium. But he wouldn't speculate on the rest of the season, especially with the next afternoon home game not scheduled until Nov. 9.

"We're going to have to do it for a while until we get to know the stadium," he said. "We don't know what it'll be like if it's 45 (degrees) and sunny or 45 and cloudy.

"That's why we're not going to put ourselves in a box. We're still getting a feel for it ourselves, and until we do, we're going to have to play it by ear."

Clearly, though, any errors will be made on the side of caution. Far better to have the roof closed on a nice day than open on a rainy one.