Firstly, to all of those who love Japan, but who have never been to Japan, and don't have any plans to go there, I suggest you stop reading this now, because this post may just break your heart. What I'm about to tell and show you will may shock you. You may misconstrue what I'm saying as "Japan-bashing", and you might think that I hate Japan. I'll say right now that that isn't true. I think that the average Japanese person is very nice and polite. I'm able to go all around Tokyo, Yokohama, and many other areas from my apartment without having to buy and drive a car. I just catch the train - not many other places can also claim that. Also, neighborhoods tend to be bustling and lively. However, the architecture and "urban design" or lack thereof, is appalling.

This is not completely their fault. After all, Japan went through earthquakes and bombing raids, which wiped out a great number of buildings. Japan's economy again became one of the best from the 1950s until the 1970s, continuing until the crash of the 1990s. Unfortunately, anyone (who isn't a modernist) who has seen the brutalist architecture of these decades, sees that it compares quite unfavorably both to the classical architecture pre-war and to the new postmodern architecture that has come to the forefront since. Too bad that the vast majority of Japan was built back up during these decades. Sadly, except for a few...well...exceptions, Japan and indeed most (though not all) Japanese architects around the world are forever stuck making mediocre buildings. Sadly, even though places like Kyoto never suffered from the aforementioned disasters, they are well on their way to being destroyed by the "modernizing" Japanese, themselves.

It's funny to hear when people say, "Wow...Japan blends the old and the new!" or "The Japanese respect their history. I saw an old temple in-between modern buildings!" Like Japan's the only place to have old buildings. In fact, places like Paris, Florence, and most cities and towns across Europe have buildings that are not only far older than anything left in Japan, but taken far better care of, and are seen in groups, not just one single shack from 1911 nestled in-between brutalist concrete apartment buildings. However, I guess because Europeans are white and not of some exotic race, with strange faces and such, who are not supposed to be modern, but should live eternally in squalor, their preserved history is overlooked.

Moving on, I should note that wherever a photographer goes...not just Japan...one is liable to take pictures of only 10% or less of what s/he sees. I mean, who wants to take a picture of the building NEXT TO the Empire State Building? Has anyone ever focused on that? But that's not all, as professional or hobbyist photographers only show others the top 10% or less of the pictures they actually take. If my math is correct, then this comes out to (10% of 10%) a maximum of only the top 1% of sights in a given area ever seen by those who haven't been there. Also, many camera tricks are used (especially with mountains in the background). Let me give you some visual examples.

First is a nice photo I took of Tokyo, which is actually one of the ugliest cities I've laid my eyes on, though you'd never know it from this:
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/7/71/DSCN5491.JPG

I waited six months for that baby, but I didn't wait six months for this next one. In fact, I've never shown another person this one, because I wanted to wait for a good one like the one above. All of a sudden, you realize how hard it is to wait until some breezy day after a long winter rainstorm so that the pollution clears.
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/d/dd/DSCN2709.JPG

However, I'm not nearly done. Many people think that, well, that's the view from any observatory in Tokyo. Firstly, partly judging from the number of derivative photos from the same place, it must be one of the very best observatories. And second, you need to zoom with your camera for most people to even realize that there is a mountain back there. Too bad eyes can't zoom. Where's that mountain again?... Oh...Found it!
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/6/6d/DSCN5497.JPG

The previous photos are mine, but now let me show you some that I got from one of Vtower's posts. Some amazing photos by the way! But, I've highlighted something... Look at the area that I've drawn a red line around. Hey...that's called...THE REST OF TOKYO!
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/1/1d/Ropongi-1-changed.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/c/cf/Ropongi-3-changed.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/0/0e/Shinjuku-9-changed.JPG

Hmm...let's take a closer look... What, exactly, is this "rest of Tokyo" composed of? (Below, beginning again, are all my photos.) Oh, I'm beginning to see...
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/f/ff/DSCN2724.JPG

And Yokohama's not that different:
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/a/af/Near_Hiyoshi_Yokohama.JPG

Well, that photo above was better, but as we all know, we can't fly around like a bird all day, every day. There comes a time when you have to get down to street level and actually walk around. I wonder what the vast majority of Tokyo, or any city in Japan, including Kyoto, for that matter, looks like. Let's see some stuff from ground level. Oh...
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/5/57/DSCN2730sw.JPG

Hmm...that was pretty bad. But it was a single building. Not all, or even the majority of a Japanese city could look that bad.......could it? Well, I read some things yesterday about Japan being the pinnacle of modernity. In one way, I couldn't agree less. In another, I couldn't agree more. If you call modernity as making a liveable habitat for contemporary people, I don't agree. If, however, you define modernism like the architects do - as a sad period between classical and postmodern styles - then you hit the nail on the head. After reading these falsehoods yesterday, I decided today to take a walk around Tokyo. I wanted to call people on their false assumptions, or refusal to actually realize how far this place has become a wasteland...a ghetto minus most of the crime.

Today, I did my experiement, and the results are out for you to see below. So as not to be biased, I took a walk around an area I'd never been to before (on a nice clear winter day, no less). I didn't know what I'd see, but at the same time, I knew what I'd see, if you know what I mean. I should note that I did see a few better sights that I didn't take any photos of, but I also saw quite a few worse sights, that I likewise didn't capture. In all, this group of photos represents, roughly, the average of what I saw just today on my random walk.
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/f/f6/DSCN6823.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/b/ba/DSCN6825.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/0/02/DSCN6826.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/3/3c/DSCN6828.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/e/e2/DSCN6829.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/7/7a/DSCN6833.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/1/13/DSCN6834.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/6/6c/DSCN6835.JPG

One of the most traditional-looking things I saw during my whole 1-hour-plus walk was this. Rusty corrugated metal is a pretty common theme here in Japan.
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/1/12/DSCN6837.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/b/b1/DSCN6839.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/c/c9/DSCN6840.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/6/6c/DSCN6841.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/7/75/DSCN6843.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/5/5b/DSCN6844.JPG

Gee, I'd hate to see number 2...
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/c/c9/DSCN6846.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/3/39/DSCN6847.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/5/58/DSCN6849.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/2/22/DSCN6850.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/4/4e/DSCN6851.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/f/f9/DSCN6852.JPG

I was amazed, and I must concede some sort of defeat, with this last one. It's an actual park, with some trees and a brook...even if you can see the skyline of doom just behind it...
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/d/de/DSCN6859.JPG

I'm sorry to have to be the person to let you know, but that is the real Tokyo. To back up my claims of being relatively unbiased, I took two videos, each exactly 5-minutes long. One is on a trolley-type thing (which I'd never ridden before), called the Toden Arakawa Line. I started the video and let it run for the 5 minutes, and showed what was out the window. Not very biased in my opinion. You can make up your own mind. And the second video was started from the last station of the Toden Arakawa Line, with me walking in a random direction (never seen before), and filming what I saw. To my surprise, there were multiple temples, though again, in-between the horrid rotting boxes. I'll post the links once the videos have been processed.

In Asia, besides Japan, I've been to Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, and China (Hong Kong and Shanghai). Nowhere else, besides Bangkok, have I seen such a bleak landscape. Singapore is the best, in my opinion, with tree-lined streets and protected historic quarters that have been saved from the bulldozer (even though central Raffles Place didn't make it). Shanghai, too, with its tremendous growth in the 1920s and all of the glorious architecture that entailed, followed by war and a 50-year stagnation that saved it from drab 60's boxes. Hong Kong's stuff is cutting-edge. Somebody wrote on one thread that if all of the new buildings were put together in Umeda, Osaka's skyline would look as good as Singapore's. Firstly, that's like saying that if Dick Cheney put on some makeup, he'd look as good as Jennifer Aniston, and secondly, I'm tired of people only looking at the tall buildings. Singapore has a hight limit, but on ground level, its downtown outshines almost all Asian competitors. I must say that even when riding from Changi Airport into town, and passing all the HDB flats, I breathed a sigh of relief! At least there were trees...flowers... At least it seemed like SOMEONE cared... I just wonder why the Japanese are unable to have the same thing. And do they not even care?

Japan is already turning into a has-been. Roppongi and Shiodome are trying to save it. Shiodome, in fact, is as beautiful an area as any contemporary city center, but Shiodome makes up less than 1% of even the downtown area of Tokyo. In my opinion, it's not just skyscrapers that can save Japan. The city is too big to be completely filled with them. It takes half an hour by train just to cross downtown. I think that the places where people live have to be reinvigorated, with actual style used for smaller buildings...something that's almost entirely lacking. I see some signs of a change. I hope it comes about. We shouldn't just give compliments to Japan without giving its cityscapes very critical looks. It does the Japanese no good, in fact. We shouldn't let the government get off continuing to degrade the landscape. Someone should speak up.

Now, with everybody convinced that I hate Japan and Tokyo, I probably can't make you believe otherwise. But before you argue with me, remember what you're arguing for. Do you like what you see? Or do you want a change? If somebody had argued with Elvis when he went into a downward spiral of drug dependence, he might not have died on "the throne". Sometimes, if you love someone or something, you gotta tell them what's wrong and check them into rehab. That's what I'm trying to do with this country, because they're continuing, even in Kyoto, to destroy every last bit of their history and culture and replace it with...well, you've seen for yourself.

WTF? What's wrong? I love your pictures and cities depicted in them.

like seriously, i dont get it. You think the architecture is boring? well it's not like paris is all filled with classical buildings, the apartment blocks in the suburbs are probably worse this. or are they some sort of "bad area"? Well they look ten times better than the bad area in US cities, which btw still get a lot of appreciation from forumers worldwide including me.

No city is perfect, no country is perfect, but if this is the "flaw" you are trying to demonstrate, then I think you failed. Whatever, Tokyo is a frigging megapolis of 20 million people, people actually live in it u know...it's not some touristy town where people go take a walk.

I have never been to Tokyo, and I hope I can visit sometime in the future. But I understand Tokyo is not all Shibuya, Ginza, Roppongi, it's a big city, so it gotta have a little bit of everything.

Worst of Japan is similar to the best in most cities around the world though.
And I really don't think any of this is bad at all.

Come to Los Angeles or Bangkok. You'll want to rip your eyes out :D

i actually expected to see some slums, since I have wondered for quite sometime if slums exist in Japanese cities since they all look superclean from the pictures, (and they are).but if this is the best(worst) you can do..meh...

btw are there slums in japanese cities?

You only use your camera to search for the ugliness of the city.
Ironically your spirit is the destitute poorest.
Without doubt, your vauntry collection of the Tokyo pics are myriad of the photos of the poor people you have taken in a happy vein, er, shit-fire?


btw are there slums in japanese cities?

Come here and see for yourself. There're homeless people in the streets in big cities.

I don't think this is that bad. It's not cutting-edge, and I would really prefer if all those messy power lines went "somewhere else," but this isn't particularly terrible.

If you're not from the US, come on over to Los Angeles or New York :D

To Sen:
Wow...now I'm beginning to realize why artwork that was drawn by a dog can fetch a million dollars. What has happened? At any rate, enjoy the pictures. I'm glad that I could give you something to drool over. By the way, there are no real "slums" as such, but some parks tend to be filled with tents where the homeless live, and you can also see them around large train stations. Generally, though, the situation is not bad.

To Coldstar:
I think I'm fluent enough, but I couldn't understand your last sentence. As for searching only for ugliness. First, should I take that as a confession that you, unlike Sen, actually think that these areas aren't so pretty? And secondly, as I've made clear, I didn't do anything like search for ugliness. I'll repeat myself. I went to a random area that I'd never been to before and took random pictures. This does not show the worst of Japan...merely average Japan. As I've made clear, I'm not comparing average urban Tokyo to a slum in Bogota.

I don't really understand. Is there something wrong with a real city? I have never separated Tokyo with the big red lines like you've drawn in your pictures. It's all part of a whole. In fact, the stuff "outside of the lines," the street-level stuff, is what I love most about Tokyo and Japan, and I've lived in Tokyo. It's organic, human-scaled, non-pretentious, livable and functional. It's real urban fabric, not sculpture masquerading as architecture.

The construction that you are deriding is a product of environment (economy, climate, culture, etc). I don't know by what standard you are judging that Japan is a "has-been," but I don't think many Japanese people feel the need to live up to whatever arbitrary standard that is.

You think North American or Western European countries don´t have similar pictures in their cities?? Of course they have!
That "average Japan" is similar to "average north america", "average Germany" or "average france", for example.

people obviously missunderstood this thread

he is simply showing us the REAL JAPAN, past the amazing pictures with all the neon lights.

I was in japan back in 2004 and I wasn't particularily impressed either.

pictures do too much justice to japanese cities.

but you have to understand japan had to be rebuilt from scratch after the americans bombed it to ashes.

To Sen:
Wow...now I'm beginning to realize why artwork that was drawn by a dog can fetch a million dollars. What has happened? At any rate, enjoy the pictures. I'm glad that I could give you something to drool over. By the way, there are no real "slums" as such, but some parks tend to be filled with tents where the homeless live, and you can also see them around large train stations. Generally, though, the situation is not bad.

To Coldstar:
I think I'm fluent enough, but I couldn't understand your last sentence. As for searching only for ugliness. First, should I take that as a confession that you, unlike Sen, actually think that these areas aren't so pretty? And secondly, as I've made clear, I didn't do anything like search for ugliness. I'll repeat myself. I went to a random area that I'd never been to before and took random pictures. This does not show the worst of Japan...merely average Japan. As I've made clear, I'm not comparing average urban Tokyo to a slum in Bogota.

Ok, I appreciate your pictures because they are real, but I dont know why you have to be so negative toward it. I actually didnt read your whole post (well you cant blame me it's too long, I will read it and try to understand what you are trying to say here).

people obviously missunderstood this thread

he is simply showing us the REAL JAPAN, past the amazing pictures with all the neon lights.

I was in japan back in 2004 and I wasn't particularily impressed either.

pictures do too much justice to japanese cities.

but you have to understand japan had to be rebuilt from scratch after the americans bombed it to ashes.

You think people would actually think Japan is all neon lights? of course not. but do we like to see neon lights? hell yes.
See the "usual london" thread in cityscape, and the "Paris in 21st century" thread, the difference is more striking. Tokyo is certainly better in this regard, the difference between good area and bad area is not that obvious.

people obviously missunderstood this thread

he is simply showing us the REAL JAPAN, past the amazing pictures with all the neon lights.

I was in japan back in 2004 and I wasn't particularily impressed either.

pictures do too much justice to japanese cities.

but you have to understand japan had to be rebuilt from scratch after the americans bombed it to ashes.


Well read the caption he gave...
"First is a nice photo I took of Tokyo, which is actually one of the ugliest cities I've laid my eyes on, though you'd never know it from this:"
not much to missunderstand

And I think most people know how the "real" Japan - Tokyo - is ( which is better off than 98% of the cities around the world ). They just choose to be impressed by the better stuff more. No I don't have any evidence to support my claim but from looking at these pictures and seeing pictures of cities around the world before I think it's a fair claim.

This poster definitely shows what real Tokyo looks like... (Nice pictures from the Bunkyo Civic Center...I actually have a lot of the same pictures...)

Unrelenting greyness with barely any trees...

And so many "bathroom tiled" exterior buildings.

But on the other hand almost all the neighbourhoods are really safe and each consists of a small vibrant community

Kyoto has much more "traditional neighbourhoods", I don't think I have ever seen one in Tokyo

Those areas still look spotlessly clean and organized, I don't see how it compares so negatively with Singapore. Singapore and HK also have their older areas, but the streets are clean, lines visible, and fairly well maintained; same with these areas. Just because everyone can't afford to live in Roppongi doesn't mean they are something to be ashamed of.

Also, if it doesn't look good on the outside, it doesn't mean that it's a ghetto. Speaking from personal experience, when I visited Taiwan and Hong Kong, I was somewhat disappointed with the exteriors of many apartment blocks since they were fairly old and dirty looking. However, upon entering the actual apartment I was shocked to see well-renovated, extremely clean interiors. And I mean, WELL-renovated: gleaming hardwood floors, granite countertops, every appliance you could think of, leather funiture, etc. all spick-and-span of course. I assume it's more or less the same with Tokyo. Anyways, even if this wasn't the case, I still have a problem with criticizing people for ugly houses when they can't afford to live better.

I guess OP is on the same ground with those people that criticize Chinese cities for their monotonous commieblocks.
What they fail to realize is that those are not tourist attractions, they provide lodging for people.
This is a common problem with many Asian cities, Asia completed the urbanization process at a much faster pace compared to Europe, there was no time for urban planning and everything is hastily built,What Japanese cities (and Singapore) distinguish themselves from others is that they are always so clean, the architecture may be boring, the area might be poor, but at least it's safe and clean.

I think the house culture is japan is really poor compared with the europeans and the american..nevertheless this culture is changing and also the japanese now want a clean big and nice house!! Your pictures reflect the reality but it is changing quickly!! the mansion bubble is just the first sign. Even in a small prefecture like Oita there is a new generation of houses....believe me, something amazing!!!

he is simply showing us the REAL JAPAN, past the amazing pictures with all the neon lights.



What's the REAL JAPAN?
Everything you see is real, but at the same it's only a part of the reality.
Do you believe you can grasp a certain country in a several years?
We're fed up with shallow views, hackneyed analysis of Japanese society.
Everyone should not use the word 'real' in cavalier fashion.

Thus,_

I was in japan back in 2004 and I wasn't particularily impressed either.


_it doesn't matter whether you were impressed or not. Do not universalize your tiny experience.

Hello riction, welcome to our forum.

I guess the reason behind these "real Japan" pictures of yours is that you browsed a number of Tokyo/Japan threads at SSC and thought that these were only looking on the bright side of life. Well, I must tell you the title you picked for this topic is dead wrong - we do upload images of "real Tokyo". For example, have a look at some of the stuff shared by Princeofseoul or myself, including aerial pics where you cannot avoid showing the less glamorous side of this city - yes, we don't cut out pictures.
Honestly I don't have the time to read your thread completely; you started a debate, which is a good thing in my opinion. I don't like power lines either, we need more parks, less crows and cheaper beer, to name a few of the problems of a city of this size. There's a number of threads like this one in SSC, "the ugly side of X they don't show you", these tend to become multi-page :D
All views are welcome, but I would avoid that "I am the one telling you the truth about X" of yours.

Guys, I think you need to ask yourself: what precisely do I think is ugly about these pictures? Is it the "bad architecture" or just that the buildings are old? You can't see a Roppongi around every corner, you know. There isn't enough money in the world to building gleaming skyscrapers on very corner. It would be stupid to build a giant, modern skyscraper in a neighborhood where no one could afford to live in it, right? Makes sense, doesn't it? Every city should have a gradient of quality. If there isn't then it either means you've found a statistically improbable accumulation of wealth or the government has forcefully restructed the neighborhood with urban planning. Not everyone can afford to live in a $1,000,000 apartment just for the sake of pleasing the eyesight of some tourist who gets dissapointed when he doesn't see Roppongi towers on every corner.

And in fact, the "real" pictures you showed are much, much better than Paris. I never once saw graffitti in those photos and everything was clean. Sure, the buildings were a little old, but not everyone can afford to make a new building every 20 years just because the old one is "getting a little run-down." Here's Paris for comparison, also just random photos.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/383630259_c7e5635b71.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/148/383626212_6180912b27_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/383630264_f489beef73_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/383630294_44eb773314_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/129/383633103_f18ea41e4b_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/159/383630285_faf60ffbc9_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/173/383626216_6d64187a75_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/383630259_c7e5635b71_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/184/383626221_616cf2eba2_o.jpg

Oh, and also your judgment of Tokyo as a ghetto without most of the crime is is a faulty judgment. A ghetto is where destitute people live. None of your photos says to me "destitute." It's generally faulty reasoning to judge the quality of a country by the appearance of its buildings, which is what both sides of this argument are doing. One side thinks its all modern and the other says there're less glamorous neigorhoods. Both are right in that both types of neighborhoods exist, but both are wrong for judging Tokyo by its apperance. Japan is an industrious nation that brought itself out of Feudalism in just a few decades. That is admirable on its own. Also, every city has haze so thats another faulty judgment of yours. Paris also has its glamorous parts - there are fewer than in Tokyo I must say - and thats all movies show you. No one ever shows you the graffitted-to-hell-and-back neighborhoods that really are ghettos because of the horrendous, overwhelming crime.

There's nothing wrong with the OP showing us the real side of Tokyo. It's true that most of the photos you see here are the glitzy, gleaming, modern, neon side of Tokyo. Similarly, most of the photos you see of New York are of skyline vistas and early 20th century skyscraper architecture. Most of the photos you see of Paris are of the 19th century Haussmann era developments. But reality (or seeing the whole picture) is different, and it's worth seeing.

What's wrong with his post was the value judgements that he placed on the photos, as if there was something wrong with them. Sorry, but most architecture in the world is not made to be looked at from the outside, it's made for function.

And btw, there is now plenty of graffiti in Japan, unfortunately. Strange that we see none in these pictures.

I'm actually getting a bit bored with most "glitzy, gleaming, modern, neon" pictures of Tokyo. I even like too see the different parts that are less photographed more.

Thanks for the pictures riction,thanks for the real Japan.

First, I don't think they're ugly at all. Every building for me has character, unlike a lot suburbanized cities in America.

Second, what I like most about Tokyo is its liveliness. Those buildings may not be friendly looking for some but I rahter have these buildings with walkable roads than in a lot of American cities where there are only cars and cars..

It's funny to hear when people say, "Wow...Japan blends the old and the new!" or "The Japanese respect their history. I saw an old temple in-between modern buildings!" Like Japan's the only place to have old buildings. In fact, places like Paris, Florence, and most cities and towns across Europe have buildings that are not only far older than anything left in Japan, but taken far better care of, and are seen in groups, not just one single shack from 1911 nestled in-between brutalist concrete apartment buildings. However, I guess because Europeans are white and not of some exotic race, with strange faces and such, who are not supposed to be modern, but should live eternally in squalor, their preserved history is overlooked.

What were you trying to say? Can you clarify your comment plz? :)

Thanks for your comments, guys. What I wanted to do with this thread is start a debate about what's behind the scenes of cities. I believe that the graffiti-laden Paris photos should not be hidden from view, either. In fact, what I like to see most is the other side of the places that everybody thinks is near to perfection in some way, whether it's technologically and futuristically with Tokyo, or classically with Paris. This is true with other things, too. For instance, my girlfriend translates and she was watching a few hours of interviews, when only the best answers that fit the answers that were desired would ever be shown...taking up maybe less than 10% of the time. In the clips that are not supposed to be seen, you can see how many mistakes the interviewees make, and how they also give opinions that deviate from what is expected of them. I like being able to see that.

In the future, I won't use "THE REAL whatever", because well, Roppongi Hills is real, too. It's a very very small part of what's real, but it is still a part. Still, I like to show the other 90 percent from time to time, even though, like most other people, I usually take pictures of the nicest places, too.

To reiterate, what I showed was NOT a "bad neighborhood". And in fact, I'm pretty sure that the people who lived in the area weren't poor, either. And in a fair few of the buildings, there might have very well been nice interiors, which is good, though it doesn't have to do with the architecture at all.

Also, remember, that I don't hate Japan. If I hated Japan, I wouldn't have lived here for more than a total of 2 years...yes, in a nondescript apartment building, too.

To ThaiSiamese:
What I meant to say (which may or may not be true...it's just how I felt) was that Europeans/Americans generally look at Asian places as "exotic". Of course, it's not exotic if you've lived there for a long time...or your whole life. Yet, a European/American could walk past three old churches, an old courthouse, Victorian homes, and the Beaux-Arts town hall in his/her hometown and not pay them any attention, but if the same person sees a single run-down shack in some "exotic" locale that looks sort of "Asian", he'll say "Boy, those Asians preserve their culture!" On the other side of the coin, I'm sure that Japanese don't notice much of their own architectural history, and say the same things about other cultures. At any rate, perhaps my quote was too harsh, as I don't believe that it's racism (and if it is, then it's that they're looking up to another group instead of putting them down).

I'm really sick of your dogmatic hypocrisy.
Here, you showed off your pics with red highlight lines along with captions 'The Real Japan with definitely never-before-seen photos' , 'average Japan', etc..
But as your words clearly give away, the places you fooled around are mainly shantytowns (not even average towns.)
How come you can determine the Arakawa Line area (which is quite famous among the Tokyoites as the place forigners from Asian countries are living and gathering) is the REAL JAPAN? Instead you should downplay it's the reality of part of Tokyo.
You'd better realized that the forumers here in Japan Forum (including Japanese themselves) have a good and deep knowledge of the reality. Only a fool believe in your flimsy biased remark.

And, I also have been to some Asian countries like you: Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, China (Hong Kong, Shenzhen, Macau, Beijing and Shanghai), Indonesia, S. Korea, Taiwan, India, Mongolia....I've never been to Malaysia though).
But strange to say, my impressions there were completely different from your fair-faced opinion.
Every place on earth people are living has light and dark (your beloved Singapore is no exception at all, but I never try to shout out 'This is the REAL SINGAPORE' with my pics and idle talk).
Anyway, the biggest difference between you and me is I have discretion to stick to my last.

Tokyo is beatiful and very special, one of the most architecturally, if not the ost architechturally varied city on the planet.

And what about graffiti, mostly artistic youths that are enthusiastic about the cause.

http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/7/7a/DSCN6833.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/1/13/DSCN6834.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/6/6c/DSCN6835.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/1/12/DSCN6837.JPG


Photos have much to say, and we are never blind and idiots.
Actually, a man in Tokyo can find where these locations are handily.
I can trace riction's adventure route myself minutely.
These pics were all taken in Akabane Nishi 2 Cyoume in Kita ward,that is, northernmost point of Tokyo.
A few minutes' walk takes you to the Ara river, which separates Tokyo and Saitama Pref. In short, far removed from any town and countryside.
Anyone who has an inkling as to Tokyo's history and geography knows what the place is like.


http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/b/b1/DSCN6839.JPG

For example, believe it or not, this is a bar quite popular among the day workers around here, and is famous as the cheapest bar in the whole Northern Tokyo area.
If you want to drop in the bar (yup, thanks to this shit thread, I myself want to because I really like the atmosphere of a cheap bar), here is the useful map since usually average Tokyoites never haunt this inconvenient area.
http://map.yahoo.co.jp/pl?lat=35%2F46%2F6.607&lon=139%2F43%2F29.557&layer=1&ac=13117&az=4.2.2.1&mode=map&size=s&sc=4
But anyway, don't jump to the conclusion that this is average Japan.


P.S.
I hear that this outlying bar will close before long due to the redevelopment aound rail yard. Really bad news...

I've NEVER been to Japan and I must say these pictures aren't really that bad at all.

From your writings, I expected something much much much much worse.
But, believe it or not, I loved Tokyo from your photos.

It doesn't look that modern, it doesn't look that chic, but hey it's those kinds of common places where most people dwell upon. And, someday when I actually get to visit Japan, it's these kinds of places that I'd love to go to smell, feel, see and hear the people and the real "uncovered" Japan.

Thanks for posting. Loved the photos.

It looks like any big city. Cities cannot be just endless masses of skyscrapers and neon signs. There will be glitzy areas and not so nice sections. Its true for any large metropolitan area.

The photos are nice by themselves. The areas look pretty neat and clean. Some of the buildings look quaint too and seem to have a story to tell,

But the title is kind of misleading. Phographs are a photographer's statement based on his/her perception and thoughts. They are a personal observation and often make a statement that a photographer wishes to make. But to say that these photos are the "Real Japan" is kind of a sweeping statement. What is reality? It is a very deep thing. For example MTV's Real World is pretty unreal. And so are many of the reality shows. "Real" is an all encompassing term. If these pictures of Japan are the Real Japan, then are the other glitzy pictures the Unreal Japan? Not really. The Real Japan encompasses everything - good, bad, beautiful, ugly, modern, traditional, hitech, It is true for almost every country of the world.

I really don't get what "real" means.
Yes, Roppongi Hills is rather a sightseeing spot, but Shibuya, Shinjuku, etc fedinitely play a great part in everyday life in Tokyo, and these places are Real Tokyo.

In any case, that obscure area you showed are not such a place as average Tokyoites hang around (commuters from Saitama often call at the commercial area around Akabane Station on their way home, and that's all).
If you want to see where average people live, western part of Tokyo (Setagaya, Nerima, Nakano, etc) will be more proper place.

I personally am too embarassed to show you the pictures of REAL Toronto, REAL New York, or REAL Los Angeles. The REAL Tokyo isn't really that bad from what I see, but we always need some balance, and thank you for that.

To tell you the truth, I'd rather live in those neighbourhoods that you've highlighted then the majority of Toronto, my city.

BTW...there ARE homeless people in Japan (more then you might imagine) because Japan barely has a social security net. Once you fall through the cracks, financially, nobody will help you back up (which makes family and friends extremely important there). Let's also keep in mind that the country has the world's lowest disparity between the rich and the poor.

Every city sucks, but focusing on the poor elements wont inspire us.

Local governments, non profit oranizations, non government organizations, Japan Red Cross, Salvation Army, ... lots of people support homeless people officially and privately.
Homeless people are NEVER abandoned by the government and the people, I have to point out first of all.
At the same time, not a few homelesss people are better educated and after falling through the cracks, they decide to be 'free spirits' as if minstreals and philosophers, refusing to enter the facilities. (In democratic countries, everyone has the right to live on the streets.)

BTW, foreigners quite resemble homeless people in that both have no property in the country. (Moreover, the people from foreign countries are more rootless.) Thus, foreigners tend to awake the dark side of the society.
As for me, I once lived in some place in the United States of America to study, that was where immigrants from Eastern Europe lived and coped with life. Poor but safe place..I went through tons of things there, but I was never hasty in generalization: "This is the very real in the USA". "I've just dicovered the truth of the USA!". No way...
(By the way, did riction try communicating with the people in those towns? Judging from riction's crappy comments, all riction did there were to take photos and to stroll around idly.)
My experiences there are real then, but I have a bead on 'experience trap'. My world in the USA was only a small portion of colossus.
Our country is not huge, but never a Mickey-Mouse city-state. People in northern half of Japan enjoy skiing today, people in Okinawa enjoy bathing in the beach today.
It's outside the bounds of possibilty to generalize the way of life of 0.12 billion people in Japan.

I was in Tokyo two years ago. The cleaness of Tokyo impressed me. Japanese people are also very polite. Tokyo's subway system is very developed and greatly impressed me.

In terms of city landscape, I agree with Riction. Many buildings in Tokyo are not considered to have high quality. The city does not look very well-planned. I was in Ginza district. The main streets of Ginza look good, but the streets next to main streets have many small buildings.

To tell you the truth, I'd rather live in those neighbourhoods that you've highlighted then the majority of Toronto, my city.



100% agree. Today, I passed by west side of Toronto (which I usually don't) and I gotta say it was like being in the suburb of Moscow, with all the commie blocks and snow/slush. At least from what I can see, you guys dont have to worry about potholes destroying your car's suspension.

Every city has its weakside.

Sad as it may be, we can't expect every city (especially those in first-world/developed countries) to look all modern, all clean, crime-free, no poor people, no poverty, etc.

That's reality right there.

If you are eager for a worldwide "utopia", go to the megalopolis forums (or the Skycity forums) and hope that after 2020, the global utopia would rise (you should pray that it will).

Ask a mod/admin (such as 'Suncity') for directions and how to get to that thread.

Local governments, non profit oranizations, non government organizations, Japan Red Cross, Salvation Army, ... lots of people support homeless people officially and privately.
Homeless people are NEVER abandoned by the government and the people, I have to point out first of all.

Lets face it, Japan is not the welfare state that people expect it to be. They shouldn't have as much as homeless as they do, with the lowest disparity rate and the world's second/third largest economy shared among 127 million people.

Here is a list of expeditures on welfare systems as a portion of their GDP's.

Europe and Japan were both feudal during a large part of their history, and trends show that former feudal nations tend to be larger welfare states. Say what you will, but 17% is low for a country like Japan. It doesn't follow the formula of the rest of the world probably because of Japan's highly conservative economic orientation.

Nation % of GDP Per capita
Denmark 29.2 $29,000
Sweden 28.9 $24,180
France 28.5 $23,990
Germany 27.4 $25,350
Belgium 27.2 $25,520
Switzerland 26.4 $28,100
Austria 26.0 $26,730
Finland 24.8 $24,430
Netherlands 24.3 $35,184
Italy 24.4 $24,670
Greece 24.3 $17,440
Norway 23.9 $29,620
Poland 23.0 $9,450
United Kingdom 21.8 $24,160
Portugal 21.1 $18,150
Luxembourg 20.8 $53,780
Czech Republic 20.1 $14,720
Hungary 20.1 $12,340
Iceland 19.8 $29,990
Spain 19.6 $20,150
New Zealand 18.5 $19,160
Australia 18.0 $25,370
Slovak Republic 17.9 $11,960
Canada 17.8 $27,130
Japan 16.9 $25,130
United States 14.8 $34,320
Ireland 13.8 $32,410
Mexico 11.8 $8,430
South Korea 6.1 $15,090

Still a pretty good number compared to the rest of the world, but not that high if compared to highly developed, organized states.

Having traveled to Japan before and also to Europe and many places in the Americas, I have to say that the 'real' Japan really isn't so bad at all.

It's true that when photographers are taking pictures, they usually take the best bits. This is true everywhere. Do you seriously believe that all of Paris is pristine and it's just the Eiffel Tower? Do you think that Chicago is all the Sears Tower and downtown? Do you think that London is all Big Ben?

All cities have their ugly side. The only place I've ever been to where everything was nice was Switzerland, but even there I'm sure if I looked hard enough I could find some uglyness (well maybe not...).

Look, I've been to Paris.. it looks all nice, but at ground level there is so much garbage everywhere, and the smell of pee in subway stations is pretty universal. New York City's subway stations are nothing to write home about, and London's south end looks pretty destitute from just a quick glance.

Japan and Tokyo isn't perfect and I agree there is a LOT of ugly architecture. But then again, lots of places have ugly architecture, and besides uglyness is in the eye of the beholder. I'd say that with my walking around in Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, and Hiroshima over 2 weeks (15km a day) every road and every sidewalk were the nicest I'd ever been on. I went everywhere from quiet residential neighbourhoods to the impressive places like Roppongi Hills and Ebisu Gardens.

In the end, I don't think most people are really that naive to think that Japan is the perfect place for perfect architecture. There is no place in the world like that, so I am not sure what you are getting at with this thread.

Nice pics though, you should post more.

Lets face it, Japan is not the welfare state that people expect it to be. They shouldn't have as much as homeless as they do, with the lowest disparity rate and the world's second/third largest economy shared among 127 million people.

Here is a list of expeditures on welfare systems as a portion of their GDP's.

Europe and Japan were both feudal during a large part of their history, and trends show that former feudal nations tend to be larger welfare states. Say what you will, but 17% is low for a country like Japan. It doesn't follow the formula of the rest of the world probably because of Japan's highly conservative economic orientation.

Nation % of GDP Per capita
Denmark 29.2 $29,000
Sweden 28.9 $24,180
France 28.5 $23,990
Germany 27.4 $25,350
Belgium 27.2 $25,520
Switzerland 26.4 $28,100
Austria 26.0 $26,730
Finland 24.8 $24,430
Netherlands 24.3 $35,184
Italy 24.4 $24,670
Greece 24.3 $17,440
Norway 23.9 $29,620
Poland 23.0 $9,450
United Kingdom 21.8 $24,160
Portugal 21.1 $18,150
Luxembourg 20.8 $53,780
Czech Republic 20.1 $14,720
Hungary 20.1 $12,340
Iceland 19.8 $29,990
Spain 19.6 $20,150
New Zealand 18.5 $19,160
Australia 18.0 $25,370
Slovak Republic 17.9 $11,960
Canada 17.8 $27,130
Japan 16.9 $25,130
United States 14.8 $34,320
Ireland 13.8 $32,410
Mexico 11.8 $8,430
South Korea 6.1 $15,090

Still a pretty good number compared to the rest of the world, but not that high if compared to highly developed, organized states.


YOU face it! Throw away your unproductive empty date book.
Instead, look closely at the actual efforts for the life-sustaining of homeless people by many kinds of people for yourself.
Japan's social structure and the mutually dependent relationship is something of an Asian thing, not the same as the Western Hemisphere.
The measure of the Western civilazation and the standards do not hold in everything.

RIGHT NOW, "JAPAN FORUM" IS DEAD. MOST OF THE OTHER THREADS IN THE FORUM HAVE NO NEW POSTS FOR DAYS OR EVEN WEEKS.

COME ON! STOP THIS NONSENSE, JAPAN HAS ITS BRIGHT POINTS AND ITS DARK POINTS, BUT THEY ARE IMPROVING IT.
SAME THING FOR UNITED STATES, THE WORLD´S BIGGEST ECONOMY.

AND OF COURSE, THIS IS A SKYSCRAPER FORUM!

Mmm, I don't know why this thread degenerated. The pictures were fine, the areas aren't that bad and still cleaner and more orderly than many other countries. I actually liked the pictures, so keep them coming and you don't need to be so critical!

Seriously, EVERY city in the world have their ugly side of town, its a reality, and frankly, like many others say, if this is typical of Tokyo's scene, then its not bad at all, I actually quite expected this.

Tokyo was an extremely beautiful city during Edo period (even before WW2. )
I have seen the pics of Tokyo's financial districts during Taisho era (1912-1926. before WW2) in a Japanese encyclopedia before.
Those pics were amazingly beautiful, looked like 'City' in London. Tokyo used to be the model of Japan's modernization.

How come Tokyo fell into such an ugly city!

I found this in the "Oldest photo of Tokyo( Edo )" thread, posted on December 5th, 2006. I really don't know what happened between December of last year and early March of this year, but apparently, the whole city changed, in Coldstar's view.

Despite many people being against me in opinion (which is fine), one thing I have done is to stay primarily on topic. My posts were about architecture, which is what this website is about. The Paris photos were a nice look into graffiti-laden areas, but from what I saw, the BUILDINGS behind the graffiti, and the statue itself looked nice. This is a difference between building nice-looking structures and juvenile delinquents defacing them, and building quite boring structures and people caring about them. Note that I never mentioned that Japan was more crime-ridden and full of litter than Paris or any other city. (Maybe I'm wrong that "people in Paris take better care of their buildings", so those photos could be proof of that...but even in the background, the 1860s(?) buildings still don't seem to be in the state of decay that the 1970s(?) buildings of my photos are in, graffiti or not.) A beautiful city can be clean or dirty...crime-ridden or relatively safe...and so can an ugly city. But I'd argue that cleanliness is a social issue, not an architectural issue. This goes back to what I said at the very beginning - that I don't hate Japan, though few will believe me. I haven't talked in much depth about poverty/welfare, crime, or cleanliness, but rather primarily about building methods, that is, ARCHITECTURE. I appreciate all of the comments that have agreed or disagreed with me based on architecture alone, instead of telling me about social issues compared to other countries, which is off-topic.

If I do post again, I might show photos of buildings that, while not so much more expensive to build, seem to have much more character. Remember that in many large cities, the areas where poor immigrants lived early in the 20th century are preserved for not only their historical, but architectural merits. I'm not saying anything about the living conditions therein, but just that eye-catching views are much cheaper than many people believe them to be.

Finally, maybe some think that where I went was kept a secret, so you have to be a detective to unmask me as some fraud. I'm far from it. I'd never been to Akabane before (and I didn't know anything about it). I walked from Akabane to Oji, and took the Toden Arakawa Line to Minowabashi. (Does Minowabashi also not count, as it doesn't live up to some standards?) One photo early in my post was taken in Kohoku-Ku, Yokohama, and another one was taken perhaps somewhere in Bunkyo-Ku, Tokyo. By the way, I live north of even Akabane, and still in Tokyo.

By the way...

While I was at university in Tokyo, one of my JP professors who was formally a monk in Kyoto commented on Japan cities: "...I don't know how Japanese cities became so ugly...with electric wires hanging everywhere...what happened to the beauty of Japanese cities/architecture and design..."

And the funny thing about this prof was that he was also working for the Foriegn Ministry to promote/talk about Japanese culture...so he would start some classes saying "...well I came back from Brazil over the weekend attending some conference..." or "...I have to get on a plane to Hokkaido to teach a course there..."

What I don't understand is why people are putting 'beauty' above functionality. Electrical wires are absolutely necessary for any modern city. Their aesthetic qualities are immaterial (irrelevant). And I really don't see why electrical wires are considered ugly. Buddhist architecture may be pretty and all, but building a house or an office building in that style would be utterly ridiculous. It wouldn't be functional. The architecture you're seeing in Tokyo is functional, just like any big city. And I would argue that functional buildings are the most beautiful. For instance, an office building needs one thing: space. It would be stupid to build some curvy, twisted mess as an office building (like some Frank Ghery thing) because you would be sacrificing valuable office space for the sake of so-called 'beauty.' That's why I think WTC was possibly the most beautiful skyscraper because it was so ruthlessly functional. It maximized office space - even more so than a building of the same dimensions but with internal support (WTC had an exoskeleton) would have.

What I don't understand is why people are putting 'beauty' above functionality. Electrical wires are absolutely necessary for any modern city. Their aesthetic qualities are immaterial (irrelevant). And I really don't see why electrical wires are considered ugly.
Go to any Western European city and you won't see any electrical wires above the ground (except for the trams), everything is put in the ground. It makes a city less cluttered, in other words more beautiful. But it's such a feature of Japanese cities that it would be strange if they weren't there.

Riquion, i love the photos. Interesting.

I really have no idea what you are complaining about. Tokyo is as real as it gets, what do you mean real tokyo? All those buildings tall and low make up Tokyo and thats as real as it is for me. I happen to find those low lying buildings ordinary but nothing bad about it, its clean and some streets are a bit narrow but thats all uniquely Japan. Most part of Japan can kick anyones butt and that includes Singapore. Have you even gone to Shibuya,Shinjuku or any other place of that sort? Thats real Japan too you know as no where else on earth is like that.

I found this in the "Oldest photo of Tokyo( Edo )" thread, posted on December 5th, 2006. I really don't know what happened between December of last year and early March of this year, but apparently, the whole city changed, in Coldstar's view.

Why do you always put a false construction upon the facts.
We all know for a fact that Tokyo was a really beautiful city during Edo period. (Needless to say, Kita ward today didn't belong to the realm of Edo at the time.)
And I've never laid it down to one in SSC that Tokyo at present day is a beautiful city! Far from it, I'm so often complaining about the chaotic situation of the urban structure in Tokyo, the unattractiveness of the skyline, piles of tedious boxy offices, etc in SSC. I'm blaming to architectural firms with no sense of beauty like Nikken again and again.
These factual knowledge on Tokyo are the common perception most of the frequent forumers here (and Japanese themselves) have shared implicitly, I think. Therefore, that's one of the reasons I have been posting the beautiful sceneries in Tokyo and listing noteworthy architectures, as other forumers do in respective local threads.
I never think the beautiful pics of Tokyo are fraudulent information until now. Are we not allowed to show the beauty of Tokyo here?
Incidentlly, still, I dare to say, I think Japan is one of the most beautiful countries on earth. This is not a hyperbole, even though aesthetic is subjective matter. Indeed Tokyo might be mediocre in part. (there's no need for the emphasis by foreigners.) but Tokyo is not all in Japan. On the surface, Japanese seem to be extremely homogenious, but if you strain your sight, we're quite diverse in depth. Cities and architectures are not a differnt story.

Akabane:)
toden arakawa-line

http://photoimg.enjoyjapan.naver.com/view/enjoybbs/viewphoto/ptravel/29000/20070223117222145402386200.jpg

http://photoimg.enjoyjapan.naver.com/view/enjoybbs/viewphoto/ptravel/29000/20070223117222145573016700.jpg

http://photoimg.enjoyjapan.naver.com/view/enjoybbs/viewphoto/ptravel/29000/20070223117222145728591100.jpg

http://photoimg.enjoyjapan.naver.com/view/enjoybbs/viewphoto/ptravel/29000/20070223117222145870609600.jpg

http://photoimg.enjoyjapan.naver.com/view/enjoybbs/viewphoto/ptravel/29000/20070223117222146030144200.jpg

http://photoimg.enjoyjapan.naver.com/view/enjoybbs/viewphoto/ptravel/29000/20070223117222146192553100.jpg

http://photoimg.enjoyjapan.naver.com/view/enjoybbs/viewphoto/ptravel/29000/20070223117222194310331400.jpg

Btw I like Ukima funado in kita-ku and Shita machi

THAT' SAD:ohno:

I love how some people (mostly americans) actually like these photos. I mean, come on. Of course Tokyo is one of the moste beautiful cities in the world and just awesome. But THESE areas, just like some areas in every city in the world are just ridiculously ugly. I feel pity for every tortured soul who have to live in such a tiny, rotting shoe box.

It is a very creative exercise to take unique photographs of Tokyo where there are no architectural monuments or creatively planned multiple-condominiums. Some buildings just survive. Even in Roppongi and Sinjuku there are one-dollar-shops which are always busy. Or Ueno on a sunday when when the market is on the road and there is no place to stand.

However the interesting paradox is that the small buildings give the personality to the city. That which is unplanned, that which has never been upgraded, that which has never been cared for attracts our attention. It is not possible to plan a city architecturally at one go with a finaity, so that it would look the same no matter where from we photograph it. This could be possible only if Vishakutsuma would construct a city overnight. Even then perhaps people who would live in the city come up with their asymmetrical innovations.

In Bangkok I find some of the most interesting houses by the drains and canals built of corrugated iron sheets which have rusted, run down and become brown. The beauty comes from the people there in and people around. Clothes drying in the clothes line, an abandoned bicycle a discarded furniture... all these add uup to our impression of a city.

Why do photographers climb up to Wat Shaket in Bangkok and photograph repeatedly the tin huts of incredible shapes and sizes, fragile and decrepit, over and over again to the left of the florid temple?

It is a challenge to all the architects to come up with a binary opposite- a small, warm and colourful alternative to the grand designs. Are we awake?

Those pictures of Japan were interesting and were not an eyesore in my opinion.

I've seen far worst places here in California and in other parts of the U.S.

YOU face it! Throw away your unproductive empty date book.
Instead, look closely at the actual efforts for the life-sustaining of homeless people by many kinds of people for yourself.
Japan's social structure and the mutually dependent relationship is something of an Asian thing, not the same as the Western Hemisphere.
The measure of the Western civilazation and the standards do not hold in everything.

I was comparing Japan to the West because its government institutions and modern history make it one of the few non-Western governmental institutions that CAN be compared to the West because its of a few non-Western countres in the same developmetal class. Ever since the Meiji Restoration, Japan only compared itself to the West. The institutions of Japan cannot be compared to China or other Asian nations, but Im' sure you're right, and the social structure is very alike...but then the two nations are worlds apart, and it would be pretty difficult to compare how the homeless are cared for in China as opposed to Japan, unlike how the homeless are cared for in Germany, don't you agree?

This question dates back to the late 19th century.

I love how some people (mostly americans) actually like these photos. I mean, come on. Of course Tokyo is one of the moste beautiful cities in the world and just awesome. But THESE areas, just like some areas in every city in the world are just ridiculously ugly. I feel pity for every tortured soul who have to live in such a tiny, rotting shoe box.

Have you done so? If not, why pity what you don't understand. I did live in a shoebox in Tokyo for 11 months, and I loved it.

This blog post (http://imomus.livejournal.com/269026.html) has some interesting insights on how life doesn't need to be valued on the basis of how fancy your home is.


"For young people," he writes, "interior design is unimportant. Anything will do, a bit like camping in the mountains. Camping is not a desire in itself. What counts is the desire to be in the mountains. Likewise, young people first choose to live in a city they like. Then they rent a room to live in. As for the rest, they know how to take advantage of what the city offers. Indeed, what could be simpler when meeting with friends than to transform the corner pub into a dining room, the places where one meets for a drink, to dance, listen to music into a living room, or the gym into a bathroom. All these functions can be projected outside because they are available in the city. In the end, only the sleeping function remains attached to the room."

This dependence on local services as extensions of one's tiny living space makes for an effervescent and vital city, with lots of youthful fizz in public places.

I don't think Tokyo is ugly at all. The streets are very charming its own way. Small streets with signs and cables everywhere.

Btw. Tokyo is one of the coolest cities i have visited. And i hope to visit again a near future. Not something i can say about Hong Kong and Singapore etc.

looks very cute :)

i have to say, i have lived in tokyo for a number of years (and lived in a few shoeboxes) and i've never been bored with the streetscape. to me, 'interesting' has more value than 'beautiful', and even the blandest streets in tokyo are interesting to me.

having said that, though, i really hate pachinko parlors.

having said that, though, i really hate pachinko parlors.

Haha. Yes they are really noisy. But the Japanese seems to love them. There is usually a girl in a sexy uniform working at them.

I don't find Japan ugly at all, but very alive and colorful. Try to go to a street in a Chinese city, that's a ugly and dirty shit hole.

I don't find Japan ugly at all, but very alive and colorful. Try to go to a street in a Chinese city, that's a ugly and dirty shit hole.
Thanks Comanche, welcome back. ;)

The Human Development Index (HDI) is a comparative measure of life expectancy, literacy, education, and standard of living for countries worldwide. It is a standard means of measuring well-being, especially child welfare. It is used to determine and indicate whether a country is a developed, developing, or underdeveloped country and also to measure the impact of economic policies on quality of life.[1] The index was developed in 1990 by Pakistani economist Mahbub ul Haq and has been used since 1993 by the United Nations Development Programme in its annual Human Development Report.

The HDI measures the average achievements in a country in three basic dimensions of human development:

* A long and healthy life, as measured by life expectancy at birth.
* Knowledge, as measured by the adult literacy rate (with two-thirds weight) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrollment ratio (with one-third weight).
* A decent standard of living, as measured by the log of gross domestic product (GDP) per capita at purchasing power parity (PPP) in USD.


2006 HDI:

1. Norway 0.965
2. Iceland 0.960
3. Australia 0.957
4. Ireland 0.956
5. Sweden 0.951
6. Canada 0.950
7. JAPAN 0.949
8. United States 0.948
9. Netherlands 0.947
10. Switzerland 0.947

11. Finland 0.947
12. Luxembourg 0.945
13. Belgium 0.945
14. Austria 0.944
15. Denmark 0.943
16. France 0.942
17. United Kingdom 0.940
18. Italy 0.940
19. Spain 0.938
20. New Zealand 0.936

21. Germany 0.932
22. Hong Kong 0.927
23. Israel 0.927
24. Greece 0.921
25. Singapore 0.916
26. South Korea 0.912
27. Slovenia 0.910
28. Portugal 0.904
29. Cyprus 0.903
30. Czech Republic 0.885


From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

See also Human Poverty Index: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Poverty_Index

Haha. Yes they are really noisy. But the Japanese seems to love them.

Only a fool plays Pachinko. Pachinko is regared as 'national disgrace' by multitudes of Japanese. I wish the government issued a ban.

Only a fool plays Pachinko. Pachinko is regared as 'national disgrace' by multitudes of Japanese. I wish the government issued a ban.

I read in books about the Korean residents of Japan that most Pachinko were owned by them, I wonder if that is still the case.

Around 70% of Pachinko parlors are owned by Korean-descendents. Among them, there are parlors managed directly by 朝鮮総連　(North Korea's de facto embassy in Japan). Thus, if you play Pachinko, that means you support the dictatorship and the repression of human rights in North Korea.
Pachinko is nothing but the eyesore in Japan.

Around 70% of Pachinko parlors are owned by Korean-descendents. Among them, there are parlors managed directly by 朝鮮総連　(North Korea's de facto embassy in Japan). Thus, if you play Pachinko, that means you support the dictatorship and the repression of human rights in North Korea.
Pachinko is nothing but the eyesore in Japan.
How are the funds transferred back to North Korea? And why is this even allowed? :?

How are the funds transferred back to North Korea? And why is this even allowed? :?

Right now, North Kor is slapped with adequate economic sanctions by the Japanese government, of course. But there are lousy financial institutes of N.K. descendent in Japan (most of them are failed companies.)
BTW, bogus notes made by N.K. are into the circulation in Pachinko parlors in Japan for the money-laundering.

Right now, North Kor is slapped with adequate economic sanctions by the Japanese government, of course. But there are lousy financial institutes of N.K. descendent in Japan (most of them are failed companies.)
BTW, bogus notes made by N.K. are into the circulation in Pachinko parlors in Japan for the money-laundering.

Totally off topic, but I found this interesting article:

http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200701040120.html

Only a fool plays Pachinko. Pachinko is regared as 'national disgrace' by multitudes of Japanese. I wish the government issued a ban.

You find allot similar stupid games in Europe like Jackpot.

If this is the real Japan, then I still love it. :)

... Then, I think that EVERY single suburban area of ANY city in the world is a s..t! Look at this pictures, the streets and walls are cleaner than my bathroom (and in the first picture it's raining)!
:lol: :lol:

Ok, maybe that some area of Tokyo is a bit "anonimous", but there is no bad area at all, not in the way I think a bad area is (come to Milan or Rome and look by yourself).

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/4862/r2g0559rq6.jpg
This is shot in Mitaka, a small town in the northwest of Tokyo (still Tokyo prefecture)


http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/746/r2g1248lp1.jpg

And this is in Yanaka, near Ueno park, in the north of the city

First time I've seen this thread, just read and saw all the pics, and you know what?, this is what a city, any city, is supposed to look like, people going to and fro, the sites, the smells, the "wear and tear" that a livable and working metropolis is going to show. I live in the US, I live in Suburban America, and I'm tired of living in the suburbs, tired of looking out my window and seeing rows and rows of empty (during the day) houses that all look the same, tired of having to travel by car everywhere. I'm originally from Colombia, and everytime I go back to visit my grandparents in my hometown, I have the time of my life, because going back down there is going back to an urban setting, where people and the city are alive, where you stop and look around, and you see a million things at once, I don't know, I love urban areas, and those pictures from the original post, thats what an urban area is supposed to look like.

thanks for the tour, it was enjoyable, and to the people from Tokyo, your city is a very nice city.

Not too shabby. Theres only so much you can do to address overpopulation

I guess you guys have never seen Metro Manila

First of all, a thank you to the topic creator. I really enjoy photographic tours.

Ive gotta disagree though, I think there is urban beauty in the photos... I think density and architectural simplicity where necessary contributes to a big city feel that after all, Tokyo should be king of.

I love how some people (mostly americans) actually like these photos. I mean, come on. Of course Tokyo is one of the moste beautiful cities in the world and just awesome. But THESE areas, just like some areas in every city in the world are just ridiculously ugly. I feel pity for every tortured soul who have to live in such a tiny, rotting shoe box.

I'm not sure what you mean here. I enjoyed these photos but I know the average American(as in outside of SSCland - I can't speak for other countries) would be shocked by these. We're fed everyday the image of the "futuristic", "traditional" and "high-tech" Japan, Japan Japan Japan. I think that's the reason why the original posted made this thread, and this wasn't supposed to be the worst of Japan either. I would have been probably upset myself by these "average" images just a few years ago, when all the images of Tokyo I've seen (the only Japanese city I'd heard of) were glamorous.

I've seen far worst places here in California and in other parts of the U.S.
I've lived all over the U.S.(and all over California too). I definitely haven't seen anything worse than the pics here, at least not in such an urban setting.

Have you been to Detroit?

If this is the real Japan, then I still love it. :)

me too...Tokyo is one of the greatest city if not the greatest :cheers:

If this is the real Japan, then I still love it. :)

amen to that!
:cheers:

Those pictures are not ugly at all. After seeing them, I felt like going to Japan and seeing "the real" Japan. Greetings!

:nuts: WOW!!
It's Really CraZy !!!
Congratulations!

These place is not bad as you may think, man.

Those photos are what I love about Tokyo. I would be disappointed if I visited and it didn't look like that.

Really good to see the 'other side', the average of a town/city/area/country. Being a bit of a geographer at heart, I love to see what really makes up a place, what you get once the surface has been scratched, because then you can start to appreciate how it is to the average person that lives there, and not just what the tourist board want you to see.

What would make a lot of those pictures better would just be to get rid of the fugly powerlines as many people have mentioned previously. I don't care whether it be America/Japan/etc/etc, they don't do anything but make a place look so much worse than it really is. Makes me thankful I don't have to put up with that aspect of the ugly urban area here in Britian (the locals attitudes are more than ugly enough for me).

Also going back to the initial post, dare I say, very tentatively, with all due respect, that all the threadstarters favourite cities in Asia were all formerly British possessions and that Bangkok is the only one apart from Tokyo that wasn't. :runaway:

Lmao those pictures are fine. Thats the worst you could get of tokyo? Damn im really proud of japan! 'ugly' japan looks great! I dont see the point of this thread. The 'real ugly tokyo' wtf? What is ugly about it? Tokyo is a HUGE CITY do you expect the ENTIRE city to look glamorous? If thats the worse you can photograph then damn tokyo is awesome what can i say. Have you been to paris or any other large city? They are WAY smaller than tokyo and have WAY WORSE looking areas. You just proved to us that tokyo does in fact OWN.(but osaka is cooler :)).
あなた はばかです dayo

Not even that bad.Tokyo is a huge city of course there are going to be "bad" parts you would be stupid to think its all shiny skyscrapers.

My girlfriend is japanese but Ive never been to Japan so far.
The pics are ok imo though.
Yes it looks brutal but go to the Rhein-Rhur in Germany (which houses some 16m) or the outskirts of Paris and it will be similar.
In fact some outskirts in Rome looked far worse than this imo.
What makes it ugly though, are those power cables.
They should put them under the road.
Its not looking nice when youve got a zillion cables over your head.

those picx r great! maybe even better than the ususal picx of skyscrapers and huge cityscapes! hope to see more picx of 'The Real Japan'! :cool:

someone wanted to bash japan, once again made a fool of themself...

unfortunately people, face the reality,
japanese people are the most diciplined group of people i've ever seen through out the world... haha... the pictures of the thread proved it...
see how spotless the streets are...? even in the worst areas of the city...

What is wrong with the places in the photos ? There are place for people to live, and it is real. Those are not tourist attraction, but they are real, and I think they are nice for living in.

Those pictures aren't ugly. There are far worse places in the world, places where people live, people who would do anything to live in the "ugliness" you've described.

I can see where you're coming from: Tokyo isn't all about lights and glam, it has its bad sides as well. What place doesn't? Humanity still has long till it reaches perfection (in fact, I doubt it ever will). I also doubt that anyone thought Japan or Tokyo are perfect.


What drew my attention in your post was the very beginning, where you addressed those who "love Japan", but "have never seen it". Well... that line doesn't make much sense once you really think about it.
Loving a place, a country, involves more than liking some buildings or some parks. It involves loving the culture, the people, the language, as well as other stuff. I am a person who loves Japan/Japanese/the Japanese, and frankly, the pictures you posted and what you said haven't affected my love for them in any way. Moreover, I think other Japan-lovers will agree as well that the Japanese culture has a lot more important things to offer rather than the lights and glam you were talking about. Yes, indeed, rich views are pleasant to the human eye, but they don't nourish the human soul. If you truly love Japan, you don't love it only for its cities, or technology or even its green side. You love it as a whole, with its good and bad parts.

Japan has such a fascinating culture, no wonder so many people are interested in it and want to know more. Whether they are American or European, from what I've seen, many people feel drawn to this country and what it has to offer.

And like others have said previously, what you posted is only a part of reality, one that I have no reason to reject. I still love Japan :)

looks like riction quit visiting here...because he made a fool of himself.

there is a certain charm to the ordinary tokyo neighborhoods. but there is this part of tokyo that i thought was pretty ghetto, i think it's in the eastside pass the river the people there reminds me of those motorcycle gangsters, tho still not comparable with san francisco's tenderloin in terms of thugness.

Those photos are what I love about Tokyo. I would be disappointed if I visited and it didn't look like that.

That's exactly what I thought.

This thread is wonderful because it shows that Tokyo is a real and vibing city and it's not plastic as some other pictures may show.

What I see in these shots reaffirms my vision of a perfectly clean and civilised people living together in a megalopolis. Every corner on the pics you shew are perfectly clean!!

Plus, your argument lost any validation to myself since I saw this sentence on the first page:
However, I guess because Europeans are white and not of some exotic race, with strange faces and such...

every city has they're good sides & ugly side.....to me all those pictures are ok...i mean
when i visit tokyo (as a tourist i would like to see the nice places...but to be quite honest if i was to go & see those photos...it would not really bother me, there is nothing wrong with them ( i dont see it necessary as a bad thing) its part of the city scape)

every city east or west are not perfect...each has theyre own good & bad spot....to me personlly i dont see those pictures as a bad thing...theyre ok to me....obviously (not generalising as a visitor) i would go & see the nice places but if I was to walk in those areas in those photos...it wont really bother me.....if theyre not pretty.....well i'll say they're not ugly either


one thing i will say...atleast its clean & generally safe...id rather walk in those areas

rather than gleaming skyscrapers in other cities with rubbish next to each buildings or crooks on the dark dirty alleys..which is common in many other big cities...without being specific....im sure some of you will agree with me on this


otherwise...nice pictures thanks for sharing

Please ride a high-resolution photograph.

Riction, you're an absolute idiot. Are you American???? The stuff in Japan looks 100% better than anything "modern" in the USA. FUCK...90% of the states is comprised of big shit fucking hole stores with no architecture to speak of. Your critizisms about Japan are laughable at best. Japan is known for being clean and modern. And friendly. You cannot get this in MOST other places in the world, and deffinitly not in America!

I have been there done that, and I must agree that the pictures you are merely picking on the most unsightly of things, taken mostly in the suburbs of the Greater Tokyo Area. They are definitely not the areas immediately outside Tokyo Metropolitan Building or Roppongi Towers, or even near it.

Why are people still responding the the 1st poster in this thread? The discussion has long been over and I don't think he's still around to reply.

Dude(the person who started this post).

You have no idea? no idea???

What was wrong with the pictures.So what if some of the architecture is a bit old and run down.Japan is a clean,civilized and respectful country.Sure,most of the architecture was built in the 50s and 60s.....so what? What matters over there is keeping the streets clean and tidy and providing safe neighbourhoods to live in,with very little crime.

I give up....I couldn't be botherd typing any more.....

You are a loser!

Oh....and another thing loser.You're pics are certainly not 'never seen before pics'.They are just normal streets.

Dont seem so bad to me, in fact I like it

Me too. I read this thread before going to Tokyo. I didnt take it too seriously, but you never know. But being there, I actually just LOVED these scenes!

Interesting thread!

But uhhh.... If you come to the United States, you can find far worse areas than that!


I do agree with you on some things. Everyone around me thinks that Japan is 100% squeaky clean and that everyone has tons of electronics and are extra intelligent. Such a huge stereotype. A lot of Japanese student may know how to do well on test and memorize, but it is difficult for them to use it in real life.

I love how some people (mostly americans) actually like these photos. I mean, come on. Of course Tokyo is one of the moste beautiful cities in the world and just awesome. But THESE areas, just like some areas in every city in the world are just ridiculously ugly. I feel pity for every tortured soul who have to live in such a tiny, rotting shoe box.

We are fascinated by urban lifestyles.

Everything is so suburban here.

Certain areas do appear messy and the architecture doesn't help. I definitly have seen far worse areas BUT they don't represent the respective city as a whole. I agree, these areas of Tokyo are very clean and the streets are in relatively good condition but I certaintly wouldn't like to spend my life living in a bland concrete jungle with hardly any green areas. Just because something isn't dirty and falling apart doesn't mean it is pretty. If this is a typical common neighborhood in Tokyo, then the city definitley needs some improvement when it comes to beauty, imo.

Interesting thread!

But uhhh.... If you come to the United States, you can find far worse areas than that!


I do agree with you on some things. Everyone around me thinks that Japan is 100% squeaky clean and that everyone has tons of electronics and are extra intelligent. Such a huge stereotype. A lot of Japanese student may know how to do well on test and memorize, but it is difficult for them to use it in real life.

i agree to a certain extent but still if these pics are the worst he can find then damn japan looks pretty "squeaky" clean to me.

Certain areas do appear messy and the architecture doesn't help. I definitly have seen far worse areas BUT they don't represent the respective city as a whole. I agree, these areas of Tokyo are very clean and the streets are in relatively good condition but I certaintly wouldn't like to spend my life living in a bland concrete jungle with hardly any green areas. Just because something isn't dirty and falling apart doesn't mean it is pretty. If this is a typical common neighborhood in Tokyo, then the city definitley needs some improvement when it comes to beauty, imo.

go look at a "typical" neighborhood in ANY of americas big cities (not the suburbs) then compare them to tokyo, maybe you shouldnt talk then huh? And if you dont like tokyo (it is the biggest city in the world after all what do you expect? forest?) then move to one of the smaller cities just outside of tokyo, you will find better houses and trees etc.

go look at a "typical" neighborhood in ANY of americas big cities (not the suburbs) then compare them to tokyo, maybe you shouldnt talk then huh? And if you dont like tokyo (it is the biggest city in the world after all what do you expect? forest?) then move to one of the smaller cities just outside of tokyo, you will find better houses and trees etc.

Why the roudy attitude? Since you want to compare, then yes, a typical neighb in my city is much more attractive/beautiful and greener than a typical neighb in Tokyo. All I'm saying is that Tokyo needs some improvements when it comes to beauty. That doesn't mean Tokyo isn't a kick ass city, I'd love to visit. But I mean, come on, what's up with all the tangled electric wires literally blocking sun light. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to plant some small trees or bushes along some streets or atop of some buildings to add more greenery amongst all the concrete...

Why the roudy attitude? Since you want to compare, then yes, a typical neighb in my city is much more attractive/beautiful and greener than a typical neighb in Tokyo. All I'm saying is that Tokyo needs some improvements when it comes to beauty. That doesn't mean Tokyo isn't a kick ass city, I'd love to visit. But I mean, come on, what's up with all the tangled electric wires literally blocking sun light. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to plant some small trees or bushes along some streets or atop of some buildings to add more greenery amongst all the concrete...

the "typical" neighborhood in new york is not more beautiful then tokyo at all. Actually new york has some disgustingly poor filthy areas(with drugs and murders, does tokyo have this? not really), and the pics on this thread are the worst tokyo can offer??!? ...hmmm

Funny how people that have never even been to tokyo base the entire city off of a few neighborhoods? The WORST ones? Ok lets base NYC not off of manhattan etc but off the poor areas with homeless,drugs,murders etc. Doesnt make much sense does it?

Why are you bringing poverty into the situation? I'm referring to aesthetics. NY has it's ugly areas, trust me I know but they don't represent the entire city neither would I say they are "typical". Typical neighbs in NY are rather nice with great architecture. I am clearly aware that the photos in this thread DO NOT depict Tokyo's poor areas. They depict Tokyo's typical common neighborhoods, aren't I right? And for a typical common middleclass neighb, it looks rather bland with boring architecture, little greenary, annoying cables and poles (I still don't understand why you brought up poverty). But w/e I don't think we're on the same page..

Good to see you again, btw.

Why are you bringing poverty into the situation? I'm referring to aesthetics. NY has it's ugly areas, trust me I know but they don't represent the entire city neither would I say they are "typical". Typical neighbs in NY are rather nice with great architecture. I am clearly aware that the photos in this thread DO NOT depict Tokyo's poor areas. They depict Tokyo's typical common neighborhoods, aren't I right? And for a typical common middleclass neighb, it looks rather bland with boring architecture, little greenary, annoying cables and poles (I still don't understand why you brought up poverty). But w/e I don't think we're on the same page..

Good to see you again, btw.

no were not at all. I have been to both new york and tokyo, and the typical neighborhood in ALL of new york (everysingle borough) is nothing at all compared to tokyo at all. You are basing your trash talking of tokyo on some pictures this guy posted? Great for you? NYC has like 10x the murder rate and 10x the poverty if you look at the median of new york city compared to the median of tokyo tokyo wins. Our poorest of poor areas look 10x better then NYC's poorest areas and NYC has much more poor and dirty/druggy areas then tokyo. Plus tokyo is crowded and compact city and that is what makes tokyo tokyo, if you dont like it then to bad for you. And its not nice to see you again. Go look at your own city.


People like this kid seem to forget tokyo is the biggest city in the world with around 4 times as many people as new york, and you say "typical neighborhood in tokyo" as if you know what all of tokyo looks like? Tokyo is HUGE. And if you are complaining about tokyo being to "compact" then there is no point because its probably one of the most croweded cities in the world.

Certain areas do appear messy and the architecture doesn't help. I definitly have seen far worse areas BUT they don't represent the respective city as a whole. I agree, these areas of Tokyo are very clean and the streets are in relatively good condition but I certaintly wouldn't like to spend my life living in a bland concrete jungle with hardly any green areas. Just because something isn't dirty and falling apart doesn't mean it is pretty. If this is a typical common neighborhood in Tokyo, then the city definitley needs some improvement when it comes to beauty, imo.
Read my comment again and get it through your thick skull that I didn't start out talking trash about Tokyo in anyway nor did I speak as if I knew it all(only after your rude response). It seems to me like you take this VERY seriously, are you done crying? If I was wrong then why didn't you just ******* correct me rather than respond with a shitty attitude? I could care less if you think my city is a complete shithole full of ghettos (I'm sure Tokyo would have the same if it was a multicultural city). When did I every mention anything about Tokyo being too compact? w/e. Hope you have a shitty day...

Read my comment again and get it through your thick skull that I didn't start out talking (only after your rude respose) trash about Tokyo in anyway nor did I speak as if I knew it all.
It seems to me like you take this VERY seriously, are you done crying? If I was wrong then why don't you just ******* correct me rather than respond with a shitty attitude? I could care less if you think my city is a complete shithole full of ghettos (I'm sure Tokyo would have the same if it was a multicultural city). When did I every mention anything about Tokyo being too compact? w/e. Hope you have a shitty day...
:rofl:
:llama:

Baby...no cussing! didnt your mommy teach you better? :fiddle:

"All I'm saying is that Tokyo needs some improvements when it comes to beauty. "

Maybe you should go visit the city first lmao.

Ehm, please keep the forum nice.

They depict Tokyo's typical common neighborhoods, aren't I right?
If this is a typical common neighborhood in Tokyo, then the city definitley needs some improvement when it comes to beauty, imo.
I think you must be dreaming.

I can imagine that some people might not like all the electric wires everywhere, but that's just an opinion.


And about green in the city.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii301/momo1435-2/IMG_3140.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii301/momo1435-2/IMG_3265.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii301/momo1435-2/IMG_3266.jpg
my own pictures btw.


The problem with making generalized statements about how Tokyo looks is that most of the times you're wrong because it's just so freaking big.

The guy who started this thread (I know he isn't here anymore) should take a tour in some eastern european cities....

Most of japanese architecture is not particularly beautifull that's true, but at least it's organised in a liveable way, it is dense and street-oriented, not like most of 60's-70's architecture we have here.

That said, why all the insults in this thread? :crazy:

I don't even know where to start here...

Yes Tokyo has a lot of concrete and yes it's layout is a mess, but it's a soooo frigin awesome mess!

Never have a felt safer walking around than there ( my pics (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=435269) ) and I love the compact houses!!
Some of my best time in Tokyo, was when detouring down strange roads and streets finding cool gems all over the place!
The density, the design, the feel - it's all so great!
There is a lot ofconcrete but the houses are build so minimalistic and dense I can't help loving them - there's always some cool features or some strange twist - it's not the repeating boring pattern as you see on commie blocks - it's fresh and futuristic!

Taste may very, but I have not seen a single picture or area I would call "ugly" in this thread - quite the opposit in fact - so much charm and character :drool:

Had it not been for the language barrier and me being lazy as heck I would have moved there years ago!

thanks man/gurl for this thread i was really looking for some grounds shots of ever day japan ....this stuff makes be love the city even more

This is a really nice looking city, i've seen far worse.

Great pics ;) I love Tokyo and their is nothing ugly :P Every thing in this city is beautiful.

I want to start by saying I've never been to Tokyo, but I'd love to visit it some time.:D

I don't understand what's the point of the thread. Real Tokyo, real Japan. If you think THAT is bad, please come to any, and I mean any, major city in Eastern Europe (from Poland to Ukraine or Russia) and try to wonder 'round the streets, further from the historic centers, business districts and so on and you'll get worse than the worse of Tokyo or Yokohama or wtv. Start by going to Bucharest if you will and go to the neighborhoods of Ferentari, Rahova, Sălaj, Berceni. THAT is some fucked up shit!

Now, what I think makes Tokyo seem like such a mess is probably that it's streets are a maze... in fact someone once said that if you take a plate and crack it a bit you get the map of Tokyo.:lol: That, and the fact that it's very dense and it has all those cables hanging (we still have this here and I hate them:bash:), all sorts of architectural styles, some really plain and boring, tons of ads on the facades of buildings... all add to the visual clutter.

At least this is what I make of these photos and many more that show the very best parts of the city. It looks like a city bound to make get dizzy even a metropolis buff like me. But that only makes me to want to see it even more and my bet is that I'll love it.:D

And btw, some people actually like Indian cities... beat that.:shifty:

lol, what is wrong with that ? it is not like Japan does not have faults, any countries have faults. I am sorry to say this if I offend anyone, but if you want to ridicule any country, I suggest you go and have a very good look at your own country first before passing on judgement, if your country is not anything better, then I suggest you to keep quiet otherwise all the bitching just gonna backfire.


These pictures are absolutely normal, nothing "real" like the author suggest.

I don't think he tries to bash Japan. He's probably just very disappointed with it... expected more, got less (in his opinion at least). Who knows?:) At almost 12.8 million people in the city proper, I'd say Tokyo looks damn good. Just compare it to Mumbai (13.3 million) and see the difference in the quality of the urban environment itself and the standard of living etc. and you'll get the point.:cheers:

Even the 'bad' parts look so interesting to explore!! You must have had extremely high expecations.

WHAT IS THE MOST HIGH BUILDING OF JAPAN?

WHAT IS THE MOST HIGH BUILDING OF JAPAN?

Landmark Tower at Yokohama with sevety floors.
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL465/8551263/18546461/293167453.jpg

Very nice building!
Few years ago when I was in dubai for the very first time I was amazed with the size and number of the skyscrapers.
But my mind and opinion about all this stuff changed meanwhile , so trees and clean rivers are my favorites ..
I guess living in the city with 2 milion people makes me sick because of crosstown traffic ... I may think how it will be to live in Tokyo with 15 million people...

guys i come from Greece and all those pics..even those people consider as ugly here-to my eyes look fantastic,seriously..i'm very impressed by Japan-the people there seem to have culture and you know that place gives me a positive aura i wanna come to Japan and see with my eyes :)

I guess that 50% of the thread consists of people responding that there are worst places in the world (of course) because he said that it's ugly...

I wouldn't say it's uglier or prettier than other cities as a fact, it's just a different (and thus interesting) way of building cities, maybe so simple and functional because of the speed they used to build it... in some way reflects the way their inhabitants think.

And maybe that functional way of living is what makes the city at the same time safe and clean, things like that make a city beautiful in some way and awesome for very much people (including me) even if the buildings were not made with an art book in mind.

And Momo1435 for what i've seen that's not the rule for the city, but it's nice to see that the interest for green spots is growing fast.

To all the people throwing hate at the wire cables, they are, like most things in Tokyo, just a functional thing. Tokayo gets a lot of earthquakes, so if the wires were to be underground, there'd be power outages all the time.

Besides, I think they look great. They have the same effect on a street as trees, in my opinion. Without them the streets would look a lot more plastic.

God. You haven't been to any big city in the United States, have you? These are so much better than any ugly part of any US city.

Look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Chicago-Loop-SEcorner.jpg

The "the rest of Tokyo" as you called is amazing. They are so dense, and they show how big a city Tokyo is. These buildings are finished at least. However, in most US cities, there are tons of buildings that look unfinished at all. They only paint the front and leave other parts raw.



Firstly, to all of those who love Japan, but who have never been to Japan, and don't have any plans to go there, I suggest you stop reading this now, because this post may just break your heart. What I'm about to tell and show you will may shock you. You may misconstrue what I'm saying as "Japan-bashing", and you might think that I hate Japan. I'll say right now that that isn't true. I think that the average Japanese person is very nice and polite. I'm able to go all around Tokyo, Yokohama, and many other areas from my apartment without having to buy and drive a car. I just catch the train - not many other places can also claim that. Also, neighborhoods tend to be bustling and lively. However, the architecture and "urban design" or lack thereof, is appalling.

This is not completely their fault. After all, Japan went through earthquakes and bombing raids, which wiped out a great number of buildings. Japan's economy again became one of the best from the 1950s until the 1970s, continuing until the crash of the 1990s. Unfortunately, anyone (who isn't a modernist) who has seen the brutalist architecture of these decades, sees that it compares quite unfavorably both to the classical architecture pre-war and to the new postmodern architecture that has come to the forefront since. Too bad that the vast majority of Japan was built back up during these decades. Sadly, except for a few...well...exceptions, Japan and indeed most (though not all) Japanese architects around the world are forever stuck making mediocre buildings. Sadly, even though places like Kyoto never suffered from the aforementioned disasters, they are well on their way to being destroyed by the "modernizing" Japanese, themselves.

It's funny to hear when people say, "Wow...Japan blends the old and the new!" or "The Japanese respect their history. I saw an old temple in-between modern buildings!" Like Japan's the only place to have old buildings. In fact, places like Paris, Florence, and most cities and towns across Europe have buildings that are not only far older than anything left in Japan, but taken far better care of, and are seen in groups, not just one single shack from 1911 nestled in-between brutalist concrete apartment buildings. However, I guess because Europeans are white and not of some exotic race, with strange faces and such, who are not supposed to be modern, but should live eternally in squalor, their preserved history is overlooked.

Moving on, I should note that wherever a photographer goes...not just Japan...one is liable to take pictures of only 10% or less of what s/he sees. I mean, who wants to take a picture of the building NEXT TO the Empire State Building? Has anyone ever focused on that? But that's not all, as professional or hobbyist photographers only show others the top 10% or less of the pictures they actually take. If my math is correct, then this comes out to (10% of 10%) a maximum of only the top 1% of sights in a given area ever seen by those who haven't been there. Also, many camera tricks are used (especially with mountains in the background). Let me give you some visual examples.

First is a nice photo I took of Tokyo, which is actually one of the ugliest cities I've laid my eyes on, though you'd never know it from this:
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/7/71/DSCN5491.JPG

I waited six months for that baby, but I didn't wait six months for this next one. In fact, I've never shown another person this one, because I wanted to wait for a good one like the one above. All of a sudden, you realize how hard it is to wait until some breezy day after a long winter rainstorm so that the pollution clears.
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/d/dd/DSCN2709.JPG

However, I'm not nearly done. Many people think that, well, that's the view from any observatory in Tokyo. Firstly, partly judging from the number of derivative photos from the same place, it must be one of the very best observatories. And second, you need to zoom with your camera for most people to even realize that there is a mountain back there. Too bad eyes can't zoom. Where's that mountain again?... Oh...Found it!
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/6/6d/DSCN5497.JPG

The previous photos are mine, but now let me show you some that I got from one of Vtower's posts. Some amazing photos by the way! But, I've highlighted something... Look at the area that I've drawn a red line around. Hey...that's called...THE REST OF TOKYO!
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/1/1d/Ropongi-1-changed.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/c/cf/Ropongi-3-changed.jpg
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/0/0e/Shinjuku-9-changed.JPG

Hmm...let's take a closer look... What, exactly, is this "rest of Tokyo" composed of? (Below, beginning again, are all my photos.) Oh, I'm beginning to see...
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/f/ff/DSCN2724.JPG

And Yokohama's not that different:
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/a/af/Near_Hiyoshi_Yokohama.JPG

Well, that photo above was better, but as we all know, we can't fly around like a bird all day, every day. There comes a time when you have to get down to street level and actually walk around. I wonder what the vast majority of Tokyo, or any city in Japan, including Kyoto, for that matter, looks like. Let's see some stuff from ground level. Oh...
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/5/57/DSCN2730sw.JPG

Hmm...that was pretty bad. But it was a single building. Not all, or even the majority of a Japanese city could look that bad.......could it? Well, I read some things yesterday about Japan being the pinnacle of modernity. In one way, I couldn't agree less. In another, I couldn't agree more. If you call modernity as making a liveable habitat for contemporary people, I don't agree. If, however, you define modernism like the architects do - as a sad period between classical and postmodern styles - then you hit the nail on the head. After reading these falsehoods yesterday, I decided today to take a walk around Tokyo. I wanted to call people on their false assumptions, or refusal to actually realize how far this place has become a wasteland...a ghetto minus most of the crime.

Today, I did my experiement, and the results are out for you to see below. So as not to be biased, I took a walk around an area I'd never been to before (on a nice clear winter day, no less). I didn't know what I'd see, but at the same time, I knew what I'd see, if you know what I mean. I should note that I did see a few better sights that I didn't take any photos of, but I also saw quite a few worse sights, that I likewise didn't capture. In all, this group of photos represents, roughly, the average of what I saw just today on my random walk.
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/f/f6/DSCN6823.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/b/ba/DSCN6825.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/0/02/DSCN6826.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/3/3c/DSCN6828.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/e/e2/DSCN6829.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/7/7a/DSCN6833.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/1/13/DSCN6834.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/6/6c/DSCN6835.JPG

One of the most traditional-looking things I saw during my whole 1-hour-plus walk was this. Rusty corrugated metal is a pretty common theme here in Japan.
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/1/12/DSCN6837.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/b/b1/DSCN6839.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/c/c9/DSCN6840.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/6/6c/DSCN6841.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/7/75/DSCN6843.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/5/5b/DSCN6844.JPG

Gee, I'd hate to see number 2...
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/c/c9/DSCN6846.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/3/39/DSCN6847.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/5/58/DSCN6849.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/2/22/DSCN6850.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/4/4e/DSCN6851.JPG
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/f/f9/DSCN6852.JPG

I was amazed, and I must concede some sort of defeat, with this last one. It's an actual park, with some trees and a brook...even if you can see the skyline of doom just behind it...
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/d/de/DSCN6859.JPG

I'm sorry to have to be the person to let you know, but that is the real Tokyo. To back up my claims of being relatively unbiased, I took two videos, each exactly 5-minutes long. One is on a trolley-type thing (which I'd never ridden before), called the Toden Arakawa Line. I started the video and let it run for the 5 minutes, and showed what was out the window. Not very biased in my opinion. You can make up your own mind. And the second video was started from the last station of the Toden Arakawa Line, with me walking in a random direction (never seen before), and filming what I saw. To my surprise, there were multiple temples, though again, in-between the horrid rotting boxes. I'll post the links once the videos have been processed.

In Asia, besides Japan, I've been to Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, and China (Hong Kong and Shanghai). Nowhere else, besides Bangkok, have I seen such a bleak landscape. Singapore is the best, in my opinion, with tree-lined streets and protected historic quarters that have been saved from the bulldozer (even though central Raffles Place didn't make it). Shanghai, too, with its tremendous growth in the 1920s and all of the glorious architecture that entailed, followed by war and a 50-year stagnation that saved it from drab 60's boxes. Hong Kong's stuff is cutting-edge. Somebody wrote on one thread that if all of the new buildings were put together in Umeda, Osaka's skyline would look as good as Singapore's. Firstly, that's like saying that if Dick Cheney put on some makeup, he'd look as good as Jennifer Aniston, and secondly, I'm tired of people only looking at the tall buildings. Singapore has a hight limit, but on ground level, its downtown outshines almost all Asian competitors. I must say that even when riding from Changi Airport into town, and passing all the HDB flats, I breathed a sigh of relief! At least there were trees...flowers... At least it seemed like SOMEONE cared... I just wonder why the Japanese are unable to have the same thing. And do they not even care?

Japan is already turning into a has-been. Roppongi and Shiodome are trying to save it. Shiodome, in fact, is as beautiful an area as any contemporary city center, but Shiodome makes up less than 1% of even the downtown area of Tokyo. In my opinion, it's not just skyscrapers that can save Japan. The city is too big to be completely filled with them. It takes half an hour by train just to cross downtown. I think that the places where people live have to be reinvigorated, with actual style used for smaller buildings...something that's almost entirely lacking. I see some signs of a change. I hope it comes about. We shouldn't just give compliments to Japan without giving its cityscapes very critical looks. It does the Japanese no good, in fact. We shouldn't let the government get off continuing to degrade the landscape. Someone should speak up.

Now, with everybody convinced that I hate Japan and Tokyo, I probably can't make you believe otherwise. But before you argue with me, remember what you're arguing for. Do you like what you see? Or do you want a change? If somebody had argued with Elvis when he went into a downward spiral of drug dependence, he might not have died on "the throne". Sometimes, if you love someone or something, you gotta tell them what's wrong and check them into rehab. That's what I'm trying to do with this country, because they're continuing, even in Kyoto, to destroy every last bit of their history and culture and replace it with...well, you've seen for yourself.

I know much of this thread already has tons of "you should see how bad it is in other cities around the world" but I too would like to add to that sentiment. At least the endless urban sprawl of Tokyo is relatively safe, clean and prosperous. You should see the corners of British cities (including London) which the tourist brochures don't show!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2006/11/15/nboys15.jpg

Everyone is going like: "oh, you should see my city, my neighboorhod, etc. is much worse than that, etc." Ok, it might be true, but anyway, burying those hanging cables for a nicer streetview wouldn't hurt anybody, would it?

I mean, of course these pictures don't lok that bad but that doesn't mean it couldn't be improved. Sorry to say it again, but the massive amount of overhead hanging cables are just plain fugly.

^---- Do you know how much more difficult (and COSTLY!) it is to repair buried utility lines than it is to repair above-ground utility lines after an earthquake? Do you know how many earthquakes we get in Tokyo every year?

Well, but those hanging cables there don't look the safest thing to me in case of an earthquake either. And anyway, isn't there a more aesthetic solution to it even if they cannot be buried?

Funny, as I was viewing this thread and thinking COOL CITY! Then I read the author intended to show how bad Tokyo was with these pictures. Funny.

Looks COOL to me! I love it.

I love Japan no matter what.

In a way, I like the grimy look of cities like Tokyo (and Oslo and Rotterdam and Canberra). They are raw, real, and completely unpolished. It is a beautiful sight.

I like Tokyo no matter what...hehehe...
I've never been in tokyo, but I am going to visit Japan for spring break, and I can't wait. I think Japan is a country of the future...

Incredible city, I gotta go there as soon as I can :cheers:

I cannot understand why so many people got riled up with riction, afterall he is only trying to show a side of the city few pay much attention to. In addition I think that the point he is trying to make is that urban planning in large Japanese cities is nothing to shout about. And lets face it most streets are way too narrow in relation to the high population density of the area. There's no pavements, parks or other basic infrastructure we take for granted in the west and that includes the grim suburbs of Paris or NYC.

Having said that Japan still fascinates me in so many ways. Besides being such a modern and developed country, on the forefront of so many technological developments, it boasts unique and rich culture, customs and cuisine that are unparalleled. Even those suburbs bear a certain charm I would love to experience.

you cant judge a house by its architecture...even though they may look dirty(maybe caused by typhoons) they all have the same amenities as a house in America...sometimes even better appliances e.g. toilets.

Same thing applies to all the "commie-blocks" in Hong Kong. They may look bland but inside, theyre pretty decent.

http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/f/ff/DSCN2724.JPG



It's not that bad!

Incredible city - incredible country :cheers:

I've only been to Narita... and I have to say.. your pics are great.
Can't wait til I go.

Landmark Tower at Yokohama with sevety floors.
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL465/8551263/18546461/293167453.jpg

nice building

I know this is an old thread, but I just would like to add some comments :)

When I first read what the OP wrote, I thought I was about to see something REALLY bad (never seen before!)

Actually I've seen those never-before photos (well, not exactly at the same places) in japanese doramas and animes! I mean they were just typical tokyo neighbourhoods that u can watch in dozens of doramas and animes if you really are a japan fan!

What more can you expect from a land-scarce Tokyo with 35 million people within its metro area... which are often hit by earthquakes?

Maybe we can call it Real Tokyo if you wish (what is unreal Tokyo? Idk) but not Real Japan because most of the pics were taken there. The 'Real' Japan has a lot more to offer than what were potrayed in this thread.

Anyway, these pics only confirm my assumptions (yes, I've never been to Tokyo, unfortunately :nuts:) that japanese cities are clean :)

Like it or not, Mr. riction is showing a true facet of Japanese cities.
Those are very common and ordinary scenes seen in many big cities of Japan.
What he says is correct.

After the WWII those cities didn't have time or money to do landscape planning while rising from the ashes..with those major cities bombered and burned to the ground during the war.

However, if you are fed up with those "chaotic" city views, you can still see traditional houses and buildings in harmony in rural towns/villages of Japan. Real good scenery of Japan exists only outside urban areas...

Well, riction, it seems that a lot of people who have posted in this thread are either stupid, or they cannot read.

I understand what you were trying to do, you were simply trying to show us a real picture of Tokyo, not the worst impression of Tokyo.

I want to visit Japan next year, and seeing this thread has only increased my desire to visit, because it shows once more just how immense Tokyo is, and I want to explore it for myself.

all asian cities look like that. Here in Seoul it's no different: glitzy new 'western style' urban centres vs old 'modern eclectic asian' architecture. One also has to understand that space is very prime in these overpopulated cities. Practicality is of more importance than estatics. This is changing however as asian cities are taking the environment more into consideration.

Hi. Every place and city had places ugly, bad or beautiful or nice. Here in Mexico is equal, there are cities with places nice and ugly ^^ so its our world !!!!