View Full Version : China's Jumbo Passenger Aircraft Project 中国重启大型飞机研制


wigo
March 1st, 2006, 07:26 AM
中国支线飞机:2008年首飞
已接订单超40架,今年进入零部件全面生产

  
   2008年,中国自己制造的支线飞机将翱翔蓝天。昨天在沪开幕的“第 8届亚太民航双边伙伴对话会”上传出消息,我国首架拥有自主知识产权的支线飞机 ARJ21已完成结构图纸预批,今年将进入全面零部件生产,最早将于 2008年首飞。

  作为中国首架完全拥有自主知识产权的涡扇支线飞机, ARJ21由上海飞机设计院和西安飞机设计院参与设计,总部位于上海的中航商用飞机有限公司则作为该项目的法人责任主体。据悉, ARJ21的机舱可提供 70— 100个座位,客舱宽度比其他同型飞机宽 15至 25英寸,能够为 80%以上的国内航段提供服务,尤其适合飞国内西部昆明、乌鲁木齐等复杂条件航线。 ARJ21从研制开始就通过采用长寿命结构设计,使得该机造价与世界上同类型飞机相比,在价格上预计便宜 10%左右。

  有关数字显示,未来 20年内,国内市场对 70— 90座级支线飞机的需求量大约在 700架左右, ARJ21的研制正好满足了这一庞大的市场需求。

  据民航华东管理局适航处有关负责人介绍,我国对新型支线飞机的研发始于 2002年。 2003年,ARJ21正式进入型号审定过程, 2009年审定工作全部完成后, ARJ21就将进入批量生产阶段。期间, ARJ21最早有望于 2008年进行首次试飞,实现与蓝天的第一次亲密接触。据透露,目前 ARJ21结构设计图纸已通过国家有关部门的预批,一旦工艺规范被批准后,就将进入全面的零部件生产阶段。整架飞机的零部件将由成都飞机工业 (集团 )有限公司完成机头,西安飞机工业 (集团 )有限公司完成机身,沈阳飞机公司完成垂直尾翼的制造,而上海飞机制造厂则负责水平尾翼的生产以及飞机的最后总装。
  值得称道的是, ARJ21是我国首次在市场经济规则下自主研发的民用飞机。与以往转包生产不同,这次中国是以主承包商的身份按照国际规则来组织国内外一流供应商共同参与飞机制造。这一过程中,中方不再是配角,而外方则为中方“打工”,这标志着中国航空工业国际合作正进入全新阶段。同时,作为我国首架从设计开始就完全按照中国民用航空总局、美国联邦航空局和欧洲联合航空局的适航条例研制的飞机, ARJ21的性能也受到了航空公司的普遍认可。据悉,目前 ARJ21已经接到订单超过 40架。

dingyunyang179
March 1st, 2006, 07:51 AM
大型喷气式飞机对中国具有极其重要的战略意义,即使搞出来赔钱,国家也要撑下去。
运十当初下马,在今天就已被证明是个很大的错误。

wukong
March 1st, 2006, 06:40 PM
i remeber just not long ago, i read a piece of news saying the ARJ21 project might be dalayed or cancelled because lack of orders from airlines.

for some reason it's not profitable to fly plane of ARJ's size right now in china.

davidwei01
March 2nd, 2006, 01:55 AM
wise decision considering that China needs 700 of this kind of airplanes by 2020. I don't think the lack of order is an issue in China. Government can easily resolve this problem.

wigo
March 10th, 2006, 04:08 AM
中断30多年再启动 中国重燃制造大型飞机梦想

  新华网北京3月9日电 (记者 韩洁 姜雪丽 钱春弦) 中国中断了30多年的制造大飞机梦想有望在新的五年规划中得以启动。

  中国国务院总理温家宝在十届全国人大四次会议上宣布,中国将在“十一五”期间启动大型飞机研制项目。这是中国继上世纪80年代首个大飞机制造项目——“运十”下马后第一次公开宣布要造大型飞机。
新中国的历史上,以“两弹一星”、载人航天、杂交水稻等为代表的若干重大项目的实施,曾经对整体提升中国综合国力起到至关重要的作用。专家表示,发展大型飞机的决定将同样为中国的经济增长赋予更深厚的“质”的内涵,对于国家的产业升级、技术进步和拉动相关产业均具有重要战略意义。

  所谓大型飞机,主要是指150座以上的干线飞机,最大航程在4000公里以上,起飞重量在30吨以上,是民航使用最广泛的主力机型。

  目前研制大型飞机已列入“十一五”国家重大科技专项。北京航空航天大学教授关志东说,尽管中国自行研制大型飞机的道路可谓任重道远,但具有可行性。与过去相比,今天的中国已经具备了发展大型飞机的良好的技术基础,又有好的国际环境,可以通过国际合作等多种方式实现自己造飞机的梦想。

  中国早在1970年8月就开始自主研制举世闻名的“运十”大型飞机,仅比欧洲的空中客车起步晚两年。10年后,“运十”首飞成功并获得了海内外航空界的一致赞誉,至今堪称中国航空工业的经典之作。

  但由于种种历史原因,“运十”项目最终黯然下马。原中国航空部飞机局局长胡溪涛曾表示:“如果‘运十’没有被迫停止开发,也许中国现在已经是世界一流的航空工业大国了。”

  中国现在已成为美国以外全球最大的民用飞机市场,过去5年航空客运量激增95%。波音公司预测,未来20年中国需要价值2130亿美元的2600多架新飞机,其中大型客机占绝对多数。

  面对大蛋糕,海内外航空界人士认为,中国造飞机最便捷的道路是从支线飞机起跑,同时在大型干线客机上,通过与世界主要航空工业体的合作,最终实现“自主研制大型飞机”的目标。

  目前中国已经从多条线路着手研发载客量较少的中小型客机。2005年底,中国首架完全拥有自主知识产权的中短航程喷气支线飞机ARJ21全面转入试生产,并有望于2008年投入航线使用。这个中国花费了50亿元研发出来的飞机已获得41份定单,被视为中国民用飞机制造的“起跑线”。

  此外,中国自行研制的另一种中型支线客机“新舟60”也在去年底正式交付第三架给津巴布韦,另外还有其他国家订购了20架这种飞机,标志着中国国产支线客机出口实现了批量化。

  在中国航空工业全力以赴研制里程碑式的支线客机的同时,中国也通过与空客、波音等国际飞机制造商的技术合作逐渐参与到全球性的大型客机生产线中。

  从1980年美国麦道公司与中国合作建立第一条大型客机生产线,到今天空客宣布在中国设立A320飞机总装线,20多年的时间见证了中国不断向国外先进飞机制造公司学习的全过程。

  当世界各地的游客乘坐空中客车飞机在天空飞行时,他们可能并未想到,欧洲人引以自豪的空客飞机有四分之一零部件是中国制造的。同样,全世界有3500架正在运行的波音飞机采用了中国制造和组装的零部件,约占波音全球机队的三分之一。

  业内人士指出,中国改革开放之初引进了欧洲的汽车生产线,用10多年的时间实现了中国汽车工业从“敲敲打打”向世界汽车大国的飞跃。如今,这一激动人心的过程将在更加庞大的飞机制造业中重演。

  “希望有一天,国航的飞行员能驾驶国产的大型客机飞翔在五湖四海,”中国航空集团公司董事长李家祥的话道出了中国航空人的心声。(完)

davidwei01
March 10th, 2006, 04:31 AM
GREAT NEWS FOR CHINA

wigo
June 7th, 2006, 09:01 PM
http://finance.sina.com.cn/g/20060607/15102632489.shtml

中国大飞机项目面临深陷名利场风险

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http://finance.sina.com.cn 2006年06月07日 15:10 《商务周刊》杂志

  当大型飞机项目被列入国家重大科技专项后,这个一度被尘封的高技术项目,几乎是一夜之间成了社会舆论的焦点话题。但“全民大讨论”并没有让历经沧桑的大飞机项目有更加清晰的未来图景,一系列涉及大飞机的新闻事件在媒体粗放式的历史回顾中,演变成了情绪化的争吵:意气、误解、猜忌甚至谎言、诋毁……充斥在大飞机这块“无主之地”。

  在垄断寡头市场挤压的阴影下,部门和地方利益的纠葛中,中国大飞机项目大有深陷“名利场”的风险。


  □主笔 宁南 记者 谢鹏

  全球航空制造两大“寡头”的“盛宴”再次摆在了中国。

  “目前,在中国内地运营的863架飞机中,有534架为美国波音飞机,在中国的市场占有率是2/3;按照目录价格计算,中国从美国购买飞机的总费用累计接近400亿美元。”3个多月内“吃”下100架大飞机订单的美国波音公司心情非常好,其中国区总裁王建民在一个公开场合自信地告诉《商务周刊》,“我们计划年内再从中国拿到20架飞机的订单,至少出售120架干线飞机,确保中国市场的领先地位。”

  波音惊人的“胃口”直接刺激着欧洲空中客车公司的“食欲”。5月9日,欧洲空中客车公司将自己的好消息告诉了《商务周刊》,“中国民航总局已经确认空客A380主起降机场为北京首都机场、上海浦东机场和广州白云机场。”据空客预计,到2009年,这种550座双层超级“巨无霸”在中国起降每周将达1000架次。而且,在中国市场率先抢占到超级大飞机先机的空客,许诺可考虑将首个欧洲以外的飞机组装线设在中国,从而挑战波音的地位。按照该公司中国区总裁劳伦斯·巴农给《商务周刊》的展望,“空客将以最进取的工作,把目前21%的中国市场份额在最短时间内提升到50%”。

  仅2005年,中国各家航空公司就向波音、空中客车两家国际民机市场的垄断“寡头”订购了442架飞机,目录价格高达2000亿元左右。尤其是去年年底,中国“一口气”与空中客车公司签署订购150架A320系列飞机的框架协议,震动了全球航空界。与此形成鲜明对照的是,2005年国内各大航空公司利润仅16.5亿元,甚至不够买一架空客A380。尤为尴尬的是,偌大的中国市场继续保持着中国自主技术大飞机“0”的记录。一时间,中国民用航空市场俨然成了跨国飞机制造商的“狩猎场”。

  与此同时,2月9日国务院出台了《国家中长期科学和技术发展规划纲要( 2006—2020年 )》,把大型飞机项目确定为“未来15年力争取得突破的16个重大科技专项”之一。这个被看作度量民族自信心强弱的“标尺”,在国人饱受寡头垄断郁抑的情绪下,几乎一夜之间成了社会舆论的焦点话题。

  但“全民大讨论”并没有让历经沧桑的大飞机项目有更加清晰的未来图景,反而在众说纷纭中变得更为扑朔迷离。尤其是年初以来,一系列涉及大飞机的新闻事件更让这种混乱一度在某些媒体粗放式的历史回顾中,演变成了情绪化的争吵。

  这是一个光怪陆离、飞沙迷眼的春天。中国民航总局一位政策研究人士向《商务周刊》讲述了自己观察到的困惑:“当前国家和老百姓都能齐力支持自主创新,对航空工业来说是多年未遇的发展契机。但这种支持集中到大飞机项目上,却成了一片混乱。”

  “该说话的一言不发,不该说的滔滔不绝;内行指责外行满嘴乱说,外行讽刺内行不思进取。”在他看来,意气、误解、猜忌甚至谎言、诋毁……充斥在大飞机这块“无主之地”。

  “中国大飞机项目,不仅笼罩在垄断寡头市场挤压的阴影下,不仅无奈于部门和地方利益的纠葛,更有可能迷失在国人简单的热情和‘一夜暴富’的情绪中。”这位参与了《国家中长期科学和技术发展规划纲要》大型飞机专项的“专家”官员最担心的就是,“千万不要让大飞机项目变成了‘名利场’”。

  项目“拉锯战”

  整个春天,尽管关于大飞机的讨论在社会上一浪高过一浪,故事的主角中国航空工业第一集团公司和第二集团公司却一言不发。期间,中国一航拒绝了《商务周刊》的采访,并从侧面暗示,“任何关于大飞机项目的采访一律不接受”。而中航二集团本已同意接受采访,但在原定采访当日上午,却突然通知记者取消采访,理由亦是“大飞机项目不方便谈”。

  中国一航和中航二集团是由原中国航空工业总公司于1999年7月拆分后组建而成的特大型国有企业,中国一航主要包括沈阳飞机工业( 集团 )有限公司、西安飞机工业( 集团 )有限公司、成都飞机工业( 集团 )有限公司、上海飞机制造厂和金城集团有限公司,主要生产歼击机、轰炸机,其中上海飞机制造厂是以制造大型民用飞机为主的骨干企业,1970年代研制了中国第一架150座四发喷气客机“运10”,并于1980年试飞成功;1980年代与美国麦道公司合作生产MD-82飞机;1990年代合作生产国产化率达70%的MD-90干线飞机。此后,上飞还曾与空中客车谈判进行100座的AE100项目,但旋即外方宣布退出谈判。中航二集团则主要包括哈尔滨飞机工业集团、陕西飞机工业( 集团 )有限公司、汉中航空工业( 集团 )有限公司、昌河飞机工业( 集团 )有限责任公司、洪都( 原来南昌飞机制造公司 )等企业,以直升机、运输机、强击机、教练机为主,其中同在陕西汉中的陕飞和汉飞生产的运8系列飞机是目前国产最大的多用途中程中型运输机,而哈飞生产的运12则是目前中国唯一获得英、美适航认可的机种。

  4月27日,经过一番努力,《商务周刊》终于接触到了某航空制造部门一位了解整个中国民用飞机发展和决策全过程的业内人士。

  “现在,很多人对民用飞机、对航空工业微词不少,甚至很难听,但是只有我们自己知道其中的心酸和艰难。你们谁知道这里面涉及的国家的政策、政府的决策、国际政治的平衡有多少?”这位研究人员指出,不像军机在管理和决策上相对简单,民用飞机发展涉及的利益关系过于复杂。

  他举例说明航空制造企业在变幻不定政策面前的脆弱:“航空产业承受的政策风险非常多,项目干一半,上级下令下马,前期的工作就都白做了。‘运十’是这样,立项有国务院、中央军委盖章的正式文件,项目下马时候什么文也没有,就没了。AE100项目也是这样。但这种风险都得航空工业自己来承担。”

  他认为,此次大飞机项目上发生的利益纠葛,更使这个国人注目的科技重点专项面对过高的政策干预风险。

  作为主管国家科技发展进步宏观战略和布局的部门,国家科技部是最早、最坚定力主上马大飞机项目的权力机构,也是反对“市场换技术”、坚持自主研发的“急先锋”。去年3月20日本刊刊登后引起广泛关注的北京大学教授路风所著《中国大型飞机发展战略研究报告》,基本上代表了科技部的观点。作为《国家中长期科学和技术发展规划纲要》制定的主导者,把大型飞机项目确定在“未来15年力争取得突破的16个重大科技专项”之中,科技部也起了关键作用。

  但同时,此举也拉开了大飞机项目的利益争夺大门。“道理很简单,上升到国家重大科技专项,就有了利益庞大的资金分配和行政审批。而且,自主创新已经确定为国家发展战略意志,这个项目更具有巨大的政绩投资潜力。”该航空工业系统人士认为,这是大飞机项目成为“唐僧肉”的关键背景。

  一直“孤军奋战”的科技部今年年初遇到了一个“同盟者”——国防科工委。1月4-5日,在2006年国防科技工业工作会议上,国防科工委副主任金壮龙讲到“十一五”期间国防科技工业的总体要求、奋斗目标和主要任务时,提出“适时启动大飞机的研制”,由此引发了大飞机讨论“热潮”。

  但事实上,国防科工委与科技部的看法也有着明显差异。几乎所有媒体和大飞机项目支持者只关注了以上的引语,而没有注意到金壮龙对民用航空工业完整的表述:“航空工业以支线飞机为重点,适时启动大飞机的研制,重视发展通用飞机、民用直升机和转包生产,初步实现民用飞机产业化。”国防科工委主任张云川在布置2006年八项重点工作的会议上,也提出“抓好支线飞机研制”。也就是说,国防科工委现阶段支持重心仍然是ARJ21支线飞机道路,即先上支线再上干线大飞机,所谓大飞机项目的“适时启动”,更像是一种响应。

  所谓ARJ21支线飞机,是中国一航于2002年开始研制的新型涡扇支线飞机项目,该机型是70—110座级、以涡扇发动机为动力、满座航程为2000海里的中短程支线飞机,预计2009年前交付客户。

  对大飞机项目上马与否权重更大的国家发改委和财政部,则在态度上都坚持认为“马上上自主研发的大型干线客机有难度,现在还不具备条件”,主张把已经投入成本的ARJ21支线客机项目“搞到底、搞成功”。发改委一位官员向《商务周刊》解释说,“搞大型民用飞机是个‘无底洞’,国家政策和财力鼎力支持没有问题,问题是这个项目还是一张白纸,甚至怎么搞仍然还是‘鸡飞狗跳’。这个时候,谁敢做预算、谁敢投资?”他认为,中国民用航空工业的能力和市场现实,现阶段还不可能“一口吃成胖子”,而且在财力有限的情况下,“搞大飞机不能不考虑国际政治环境和国防建设的现实需要,更何况ARJ21已经铺了一大摊子了”。

  但“自主创新”这面“大旗”带来的压力甚大,以至于国家发改委和财政部也不得不妥协一步,开始提出“尽快先上大型运输机”,发展军用运输机和民用货机,同时对大型干线客机组织攻关,用几年时间完成大飞机项目。这个思路就是:“一次立项、两个机型、军民统筹、系列发展”。

  具体讲就是,大型飞机现在作为国家科技专项可以一次立项,但这个项目应该有两个机型,一个就是大型运输机,一个是大型客机。其中,大型运输机指军用运输机和民用货机,军用运输机又可发展专用飞机,比如预警机、侦察机飞机的载机( 目前专用飞机的载机用的都是国外飞机 ),而且国内的货机需求大,发展起来容易成功。而后再是干线客机。因此这种思路的“军民统筹”,指大型飞机项目应该全面满足军用运输机的需求、民用货机的需求、民用客机的需求。“系列发展”则指在此基础上满足大型飞机方方面面的需求。

  “但现在这个思路在高层意见很不一致,分歧非常大。”那位航空制造部门研究人士告诉记者,由于国内民机发展在体制上深陷在纠缠不清的利益“漩涡”中,大飞机项目之争正在演变成一场利益“拉锯战”。

  “大飞机不能搞成形象工程!”

  在国家发改委和财政部支持下,作为中国大飞机项目必然的承担者,目前中国一航认为,发展干线飞机的当务之急,就是要把正在进行的ARJ21新支线飞机搞成功走完。“新支线飞机是整个中国民机走完的第一步。”上述航空业内知情人士告诉记者,“ARJ21去年年底把图都发下去了,现在4个厂( 沈飞、西飞、成飞、上飞 )正在全面生产,到2007年年底就要总装完成,2008年首飞、取证( 适航证 ),2009年建国60年之前交付客户。”

  他介绍说,ARJ21新支线客机是70-90座飞机,后续还会发展到105座机。“这期间,一方面将通过ARJ21的商业化运作理解、把握和熟悉市场;另一方面在此基础上对150座以上、70-150吨大型客机的关键技术进行攻关和准备。”他认为,中国航空工业目前最缺乏的是商业化运作的经验和能力,“这方面急功近利不得”。

  “当然,现在大型飞机的立项,非常必要,也非常及时。”但在他看来,这个过程应该先启动大型运输机的研制。他不否认,对大型运输机的研制,中国一航2002年年底就已经摸透了国外关键技术,技术攻关、预研和人力资源配置的准备工作比较充分,“如果现在立项,飞机可以马上进入研制、发图并进入详细设计阶段,6年左右就可以拿出大型运输机,包括军用运输机和民用货机”。

  之所以如此,按照他的解释,最关键的原因就是“市场”二字。“对大型飞机立项,应该有明确的市场定位,那种‘不管卖得出去卖不出去只要造出来就行’的办法,在现代市场化环境下根本行不通。”他坚决指出,“民用大飞机不能搞成形象工程。”

  事实上,中国航空工业在民机发展上吃过最大的亏正是市场。在这方面,无论是两大航空制造集团还是发改委和财政部,都经历过深刻的教训。某主要进行农用飞机研制的单位一位工程师为《商务周刊》讲了一个业内人所共知的故事。

  “我们为了要卖飞机,就得找一个买飞机的。谁来买飞机?通用航空公司经营非常困难,没钱买不起飞机。怎么办呢?我们就向发改委呼吁,向农业部呼吁,宣传农林航空非常重要,造林飞播非常重要。”于是,在发改委支持下,运作下来一笔钱,作为政府采购的形式买飞机给通用航空公司用于农用航空,解决了飞机的买主问题。

  “但光有飞机不行啊,还得运作飞机的运营成本,谁来承担?”他告诉记者,现在农田都因为承包分割为小块,飞机灭虫面临收费难的问题,“财政部说市场经济谁得益谁收费啊,但100亩地要杀虫子,里边有30亩地的人坚持不洒药自己就行,这个钱怎么收?收不上来就没法干。于是我们又去运作,协调财政部在农业部、林业部的预算中增加一部分费用,用来支付。”

  “我们是一个制造商,我们卖飞机就行了,但整个过程我们全要运作,组织人大代表在人大会上呼吁,组织政协代表给政府提提案,帮着发改委向国务院写报告,在财政部上上下下协调游说。”他哭笑不得地说,“为了卖产品,整个开拓市场的事全是我们干,怎么使用产品我们得教会用户,用户买不起产品我们帮他找钱来买产品,用户使用产品牵涉到下一方面的市场,我们还得帮他来解决市场运营的问题,这样我们才能把这飞机卖出去。”

  “发展产业不是搞试验室,必须有规模。咱们国家一个最大的问题就是试验室能造出来,但是成产业、成规模却非常难。”因此,虽然不属于同一系统,但这位工程师非常理解中国一航的苦衷,“他们现在第一位的问题是怎么把这架飞机( ARJ21 )造出来,还没有遇到在市场化条件下怎么把这架飞机卖出去。中国航空工业实际上造飞机已经很难,卖飞机还没有走到大规模商业营销的地步,甚至可以说还没有任何一架大型民用飞机经历过商业渠道的营销。在这种情况下,中国一航的思路可能是比较现实和理智的。”

  这一点,中国一航也非常清楚。上述那位研究人士感慨地告诉记者,“搞民机不像搞军机,军机我们第三代战斗机和特种飞机都能搞出来,但民机不一样,民机是老百姓用买票来否决你,不买你的票你就完了,出一点事故你的名誉就扫地了。”

  最令其倍感压力的是中国民航市场的高标准竞争。“中国民机市场有一个形象的说法,民机没有‘全运会’和‘省运会’,上来就是‘奥运会’。”他介绍说,目前中国市场早已是国际竞争了,“波音777进来了,A380进来了,波音787进来了,两大寡头在中国几乎是什么最先进最贵就向中国卖什么。”而他在美国考察却发现,美国航空公司现在甚至还大量使用很破很旧、在国际市场上不成气候的波音727。

  “反观中国市场的消费心理,老百姓只愿意买宽大豪华飞机的票,航空公司只购买最好的、最舒适的、最安全的飞机”。在他看来,这就是当前中国航空市场的现实。

  为此,中国一航格外小心地走民机市场化道路,采取了国际上通用的商业化模式研制ARJ21,在上海成立了中航商用飞机有限公司,以股份制形式由一航以及西飞、成飞、沈飞、上海航空工业公司、中国航空工业第一飞机设计研究院、中国航空工业试飞研究院等14家企事业单位组建。中航商用飞机有限公司作为ARJ21项目法人主体,对该机进行研制、组织生产、获取中国和国外试航证、销售以及售后服务工作。

  现在,在新组织体系下,中国一航将原来设在西安的西安飞机设计研究所和设在上海的上海飞机设计研究所合并,组建成中国航空工业第一飞机设计研究院,把中国搞民用大型飞机的两股力量合并,研制我国首架拥有自主知识产权的支线飞机。4月28日,经过国防科工委专家评审,历经27个月图上研制后,ARJ21-700转入全面制造阶段。

  然而,大飞机的立项依然处在“拉锯战”中。尽管在政府部门不占上风,但在舆论上,上马干线大飞机的观点在气势上完全压过了“先支后干”派。

  中国一航一位不愿意公开身份的人士告诉《商务周刊》,“不否认我们有自己的利益判断,尤其是作为一家正在向市场化、商业化变革的军工企业,我们不得不考虑成本和效益。”他坦言,科技部对自主创新的坚决态度,在军机上自主创新实现突破的中国一航对此深表赞赏和认同,但他强调:“科技部可以只考虑技术,可我们不但要考虑技术,还要考虑市场需求。”事实上,这一点也是财政部和发改委考虑最多的问题。

  “而且,脱离开军品需要单独发展大型民用干线飞机,不但财力达不到,而且也不适合当前国家现实需要。”这位人士几乎是向记者剖白到,对大飞机的渴望,谁也没有中国航空工业这么强烈,“但因为民机工业的特殊性,其竞争完全是彻底的全球化竞争,在高度垄断的环境下,不是谁想进入就进入的”。他坚决反对单纯从技术看待大飞机,单纯从国内市场角度看待大飞机的竞争。

  双寡头的“绞杀战”

  目前,中国民机市场被波音、空客“双寡头”垄断的局面,实际上就是全球民机市场的缩影。按照中国一航民机部部长汪亚卫向媒体的解释,民机市场是全球垄断程度最高的行业之一,“特别是干线飞机,美国的波音公司和欧洲的空客公司已经完全瓜分完了全世界市场,绝不允许任何第三家进入,不管是西方公司还是东方公司”。

  中国一航总经理刘高倬总结了中国民机制造和国际合作20多年的经验,得到的结论是:“对属于高科技领域的航空工业来说,占据领先地位的先行者,为了保持其对技术的垄断地位和丰厚的利益,是不会愿意让后来者轻易与自己分享这块市场的,这是现实,也是一种必然。”

  这个事实几乎完整地展现在近40年来的国际航空工业市场争夺史中。

  1月31日,加拿大庞巴迪宇航公司宣布:“目前的市场情况表明,现在启动C系列大型干线飞机计划为时尚早,公司将把C系列飞机i项目的人力和物力转移到支线飞机和涡桨飞机业务上,以满足支线航空对于80—100座飞机的未来需求。”这则小消息背后隐藏的含义是,这家世界第三大民机制造商企图冲击干线飞机市场的努力终于“胎死腹中”。

  庞巴迪公司一直活跃在波音、空客不太关注的支线飞机市场,占有20-92座支线飞机市场的41%份额。2003年年底,不甘心干线飞机“双寡头”垄断局面的庞巴迪决定研发以110座的C110和130座的C130为基础的C系列飞机。这家公司把C系列定位于大支线小干线飞机,其研制总裁是从波音公司“挖”来的原737项目总裁,并联合英国搞C系列,2年多投入大量资金和上千人研发团队,甚至一度邀请中国参加。

  C系列使用了大量类似于波音737 和A320的干线飞机技术,直接进入了与空客A318和波音737-600的竞争地盘。此举马上遭到波音和空客强烈反弹,在两大“寡头”的影响下,全球没有一家发动机制造商和航空公司“敢于”拿出实质动作支持C系列研发,庞巴迪公司的计划成了“空中楼阁”,不得不黯然“撤火”。这也标志着目前全球挑战波音和空客垄断的航空制造力量基本“灭绝”。当《商务周刊》就此采访庞巴迪公司时,原本同意就此发表意见的中国市场负责人,最终也在总部要求下取消了采访。

  其实,在波音、空客垄断阴影下,加拿大庞巴迪公司的失败代价并不算高。近20多年来,面对波音、空客的垄断挤压,包括开发出运十的中国上海飞机制造厂在内的许多航空制造企业,或破产,或被兼并,或退守小型飞机市场,均是一败涂地。其中,遭遇最为惨烈的就是印尼飞机工业公司。

  印尼被誉为“千岛之国”,岛与岛之间非常需要航空运输。在苏哈托时代,印尼决心全力发展自己的民族航空工业,领军大旗交给了在德国学习飞机制造的B·J·哈比比博士。这位后来官至印尼总统的航空专家,一手建立了国营印尼飞机工业公司( IPTN,努桑达拉公司 )。

  在哈比比的主持下,印尼飞机工业公司从西方大量引进专家,同时派出大批工程师到西方学习航空制造,公司鼎盛时期员工近2万人。倾印尼举国之力的印尼飞机工业公司,先是与西班牙合作研制了30-50座的CN235,全球销售表现不错。而后,印尼飞机工业公司独立研制出70-90座的螺旋桨飞机N250,这一当时具有国际先进水平的机型,得到了印尼11亿美元国家预算的支持。亚洲金融风暴前,世界航空界提起支线飞机“后起之秀”,代表者就是印尼。

  但就在N250试飞超过上百小时、国内订购量达到上百架、还差一年就可以取得美国联邦航空局( FAA )和欧洲联合航空局( JAA )适航证的时候,亚洲金融危机爆发,印尼经济瘫痪。随后,世界银行、国际货币基金组织介入印尼经济,对印尼经济诊断后得出的病因之一就是:印尼政府把国家很多财富投到航空工业,干了力所不能及的事。最后,世界银行、 国际货币基金组织答应援助印尼,但附带条件之一就是“一分钱都不能往飞机上投”。

  印尼飞机工业公司随着亚洲金融风暴被冲垮了,其优秀人才大部分都被波音、空客吸收。事后有西方媒体披露,在国际货币基金组织和世界银行背后,其实也有波音和空客的“黑手”。印尼当时在N250的基础上提出要搞一个110座的N2130,这雄心勃勃的一步,实际上就是想参加到大飞机俱乐部里去。对波音、空客而言,这无疑是吃“禁脔”的“大逆不道”之举。

  尽管相互间竞争激烈,但对待后来者,波音、空客却很能团结一致,无论东方、西方,无论是敌是友,只要敢于挑战其大飞机市场禁地,格杀勿论。科技实力超群、紧跟欧美路线的日本,曾经也在航空工业尝试搞出了60座的YS11支线飞机,虽然技术成功,也生产了182架飞机,但在波音的挤压下失败,日本政府最后损失了330亿-360亿日元,自此完全退出民用飞机的独立研制。同命运的还包括荷兰110座的福克100和德国70-80座的多尼尔728。现在,荷兰福克公司1996年已经破产,日本航空工业则一直是波音和空客的“打工仔”。

  因此,100座以上飞机一直是世界民机市场“禁飞区”。波音、空客可以允许外来者有限度进入狭窄的支线飞机市场,但其主持的大飞机市场坚决不容染指。《商务周刊》了解到,中国掀起的大飞机项目议题,已经引起了波音和空客的高度关注。

  今年“两会”期间公布国家“十一五”规划《纲要》后,科技部部长徐冠华和国防科工委副主任金壮龙在公开场合宣布“十一五”要启动民用大型客机。对此,波音和空客的态度非常明显,通过许多渠道暗示将全面封杀中国与大型飞机有关的所有技术的输入。

  波音公司当即推翻了原本商议好胡锦涛主席访美期间签署的“中国和波音公司加强航空工业合作备忘录”的主要内容:将原本中国公司转贸生产由目前6000万美元左右提高到3亿-5亿美元规模,改变为5年时间上升到1亿美元左右。而且波音777项目根本没让中国进入,既使只拿到两个很小合同的波音787项目,尽管得到了美国国务院和商务部的批准,但也被美国国防部以“民用飞机里面有技术可能转让给中国”为由取消。甚至,波音近期向一位访美的某航空制造部门负责人询问中国大飞机项目一事时,放出风来说,其波音737下一代将全面覆盖90-240座的飞机。

  空客公司封杀的态度同样蓄心积虑。空客公司同意考虑将A320在中国组装,选择的地点是航空制造技术一片空白的天津或珠海,而非中国航空工业力量雄厚的上海和西安。而且合作企业选择的是几乎没有大型飞机制造力量的中航二集团,而不是具有民机研制实力的中国一航。即使在华合资成立的一家航空维修和改装企业,合资单位选择的也是上海航空公司,而不是飞机制造企业。

  航空工业的“国际政治学”

  近期,中国一航总经理刘高倬在中国一航内部刊物上发表了一篇名为《发展有自主知识产权的中国民机产业》的文章,提出了他对民机产业的认识,文中指出:“国外民机制造商常常为了降低成本而采用民机零部件转包生产实现全球采购,也经常为降低研制成本和扩大市场,采用风险合作的研制方式吸收国际合作伙伴,但飞机设计和制造的关键技术和研制民机的知识产权始终掌握在主制造商自己手中。”

  刘高倬写到:“过去,由于我们对民机产业的这一特征认识不足,曾冀望于通过引进国外生产线的方式和参与欧美航空强国民机研制项目的方式,发展我国有自主知识产权的民机产业。”但结果是,“我们尝试了与美国合作生产MD90,并没有得到有自主知识产权的国产民用客机。接着又尝试与欧洲合作研制AE100,也无果而终。”

  这个“老航空人”的结论是:“历史经验表明,中国制造并不等于中国创造;市场换不来技术,核心的航空技术是买不来的;对航空工业这样的高技术产业而言,对产业核心技术的控制权决定着一个国家在该产业中的市场利益,因此该产业的领先者肯定会采取一切措施阻挡后来者的步伐。”

  这确实是痛定思痛后的清醒之语,也是对全球化语境下对世界航空工业“国际政治学”的精辟解读。航空工业是典型的高科技产业,凝聚了人类大量的高科技成果,其显著的特点是高投入、长周期和市场相对集中,对于整个国民经济的辐射和带动作用十分巨大。这也是欧美国家不惜付出长时间的高额代价,将航空工业列为国家重点扶持行业的原因之一。

  因此,对工业发达国家来说,航空工业无一例外地被列为国家的战略性产业,它关系到国家安全和国民经济的大局,与国家利益息息相关。由此,其中的政治因素是不可避免的。在涉及这类产业的发展与国际合作等重大问题上,任何国家都会非常慎重,没有人会真心培养出自己的竞争对手。“对此,我们必须有清醒的头脑。”刘高倬说。

  从这个角度讲,仅靠波音、空客自身力量绝难形成目前对全球航空制造市场的完全垄断,其背后都有着不计血本的国家意志和国家力量的鼎力支持。这在两大航空巨头的生存、发展和形成垄断的整个发展史中,已经得到了淋漓尽致的诠释。

  国务院发展研究中心技术经济部部长郭励弘告诉《商务周刊》,“空中客车公司今天的成功绝非偶然,它曾历经了长达25年的亏损。在欧洲统一的战略目标和相关国家政府的全力支持下,空中客车公司才成为能与波音公司相抗衡的世界航空巨头。如果没有政府的支持,任何一个企业都不可能支撑如此长时间的巨额亏损。”

  作为老霸主的美国波音公司也一样。1991年,空客公司为了反击波音公司对自己获取政府补贴的控告,委托美国咨询公司阿诺德·波特公司对美国政府大量补贴波音的情况进行调查。在最后形成的《美国政府对民用飞机工业的支持》报告中,可以清晰地看见美国国家意志和力量是如何源源不断地扶持一个企业成为世界航空工业的垄断霸主。

  这份关于波音的“黑材料”显示,美国政府主要通过美国国防部研究与发展计划、国家航空航天局(NASA)研究与发展计划以及美国税收制度三条途径支持美国民机工业。仅1976-1991年的15年间,美国政府对民机工业支持的金额为180亿-220.5亿美元。如果民机工业从国防部和国家航空航天局研究与发展中得到的收益以美元现币值计算的话,总支持金额高达334.8亿-414.9亿美元,这还不算美国政府通过税收制度给予的资助。

  报告的结论是:“美国政府的支持在确保美国民机工业取得关键性技术进步方面,在确保其在世界市场上今日的竞争地位方面起到了关键作用。”比如,曾经在1960年代垄断国际民机市场的波音707,有超过90%的技术转移量来自军机KC-135、B-47和B-52;波音747大量技术则得益于C-5A,参加747飞机设计的100名工程师是C-5A方案论证小组成员。

  当然,航空“政治经济学”的资金支持还只是“常规武器”,政府扶持更隐蔽、杀伤力更强大的还有分别由美国联邦适航局( FAA )和欧洲联合适航局( JAA )颁发的适航证。适航证是一架飞机生产、销售、运营的前提条件。按照目前国际航空市场的“游戏规则”,FAA和JAA颁发的适航证是一架飞机生产、销售、运营进入国际市场的“门槛”,没有FAA和JAA的适航证,任何先进的飞机也只能飞制造国和购买国的国内航线。一张小小的FAA和JAA的适航证,就足以“掐”住一架飞机进入国际市场的“喉咙”。

  俄罗斯民用飞机制造业就是如此被打垮。“冷战”结束前,前苏联的民用飞机可以不理会西方的FAA和 JAA体制。苏联解体后,尽管俄罗斯继承了实力雄厚的民机制造工业,但由于美欧的适航证“武器”打压,连俄罗斯自己国家的航空公司都不买俄罗斯飞机,俄罗斯大型飞机制造、特别是干线飞机制造基本上垮掉了。

  因此,不论是现在的ARJ21,还是争议中的大飞机项目,同样要遭遇这个垄断霸主操纵的“鬼门关”。事实上,在如此险恶的国际竞争环境下,已经有人开始从这个角度向中国航空制造商暗示——如果中国想动造大飞机的心思,则耗费巨资研制接近成功的ARJ21,将无法拿到美国和欧洲的适航证——尽管ARJ21从设计开始就完全按照中国民用航空总局CAAC、美国联邦航空局FAA和欧洲联合航空局JAA的适航条例进行研制。对这样的威胁,你可以很愤怒,但你很难不忍气吞声。

  透露这一信息的业内人士直截了当地告诉《商务周刊》,“不懂世界航空工业‘国际政治学’,就没有资格谈大飞机。”

  道路之争

  在这种深刻和复杂背景下,审视目前中国大飞机道路之争,能够找到的现实感和理性色彩可能更多。

  现在,在大飞机问题上纠缠的包括“干( 线 )支( 线 )之争”、“东( 上海 )西( 汉中 )之争”、“军( 机 )民( 机 )之争”,甚至国际合作和自主创新等等争议。诸多纷争其实都可以归结为一个问题——民用干线飞机走以谁为主的研发道路?

  尽管航空体制改革已经在旧体制中打下了市场化的“大楔子”,但军工体系依然是目前非常主流的飞机研制的体制载体。以军工体系为核心的道路,常常会以技术攻关的方式,在甚少考虑成本的思路下实现项目突破。过去的“两弹一星”和现在的神舟载人飞船,就是军工道路“举国之力办大事”的成功典范。中航二集团研究室一位专家告诉《商务周刊》,他相信,如果还是这样的操作方式,完全可以短时期实现中国大飞机梦想,“运10实际上就是不惜资金、不考虑市场情况下实现的”。

  对此,路风教授在其《我国大型飞机发展战略研究报告》中批判说:“军工体系的组织原则、管理体系和技术文化都不适合民用飞机市场的竞争。特别是航空军工生产习惯于前苏联/俄罗斯的设计规范和技术轨道,难以实现民用飞机所需要的技术突破。”他具体指出,在过去的十几年中,航空工业的管理经历了一系列的演变:航空工业部( 有几年是航空航天工业部 )→航空工业总公司→中航一集团和中航二集团。尽管经历了这样的演变,但这个体制仍是从原来的主管行政部门→工厂/研究所的传统体制直接继承过来的。

  在他看来,设在北京的两个集团公司本部仍然是行政机关,下属制造企业也仍然是从计划体制继承下来的大工厂;工厂和研究所仍然是“两张皮”,它们之间的协调也仍然需要依靠上面的行政机关。“这种体制的一个弊端是无法分清企业的边界在哪里:设在北京的‘婆婆’并没有能力去开发大飞机,而真正从事设计、制造和营销大飞机的单位又没有决策权。”他指出,既然这种体制下过去没有搞成大飞机,现在也不可能搞成。

  因此,路风建议应该由独立于这个体制之外的组织来执行。这就是大飞机研制的第二条道路——脱离军工体系“另起炉灶”。

  按照路风教授的思路,关键是组建一个根据现代商业原则和现代企业制度运行的公司来执行大飞机项目。路风认为应该具体遵循的原则是:其一,独立决策的管理层,在国家战略目标和任务的框架下,公司有充分的自主决策权,不对航空工业的行政部门负责,也不对当地政府负责,只对国务院或其他中央权力机构负责;其二,公司的设计、总装、营销活动一体化,即设计、总装和营销必须是公司的有机构成部分,这些部分与公司总部是行政关系而不是“法人”之间的关系;其三,公司的内部流程必须以产品开发( 飞机设计 )为龙头,真正实行高技术企业的组织原则,首先开发出大飞机,然后实现开发项目的产业化,开发出产品的同时,使公司能够成为竞争性企业;其四,公司的目标是开发出来拥有自主知识产权的大飞机,在规定年限内绝不允许外资染指,避免外资对中国技术学习过程的任何控制,在新企业成长起来之后,再由有关决策方根据当时的情况决定是否通过上市对外资开放。

  “这个思路什么都好,就是有一点路风教授可能没想到,这条道路不但的确独立于目前的航空制造体制,更独立于中国政治经济的现实体制。”中航二集团研究室那位专家苦笑着说,“‘路风方案’的书生气太浓厚了。”

  他告诉记者,中航二集团事实上是大飞机项目上利益和话语权最少的单位,他从一个航空工业体制研究者的中立身份认为:“体制的问题实质是利益各方平衡的问题,关键是如何组合出一个作用正面的利益结构。不能说利益结构有问题,‘跳出红尘外,不在五行中’就完了,事实上根本就不存在跳出来的可能,体制好与坏还得在其中生存。”

  而且,他认为路风这个思路即使看不上军工体系,但也没有真正独立出来,“比如,它仍然需要行政命令完成公司的设计、总装、营销,而且这个公司只对国务院或其他中央权力机构负责,难道说具体工作脱离航空管理部门由国务院直接指导?”

  “在仔细看完了路风教授的报告后,尽管我敬佩他的爱国热情,但情感过浓会直接影响一项研究的科学和理性,甚至造成判断和分析的情绪化和简陋。”在他看来,完全脱离开现有的航空制造企业和其运行的体制基础,开发大飞机项目,实际上是“空中楼阁”,“你不可能凭空再造出一个航空产业链来”。

  这位研究专家比较赞同路风教授对军工体制弊端的批判和对大飞机项目商业化运作方向的支持。“老实说,没有谁比我们航空制造企业更想从军工道路弊端中走出来了。”他介绍说,1990年代初中期,因为我国军事战略调整,军品订单全面减少,航空工业一度惨淡到难以为继的地步;1990年代后期台海问题加剧,军品任务增加,又给航空工业带来繁荣。这种冷热无度让中国航空制造企业非常渴望走出单纯军品生存,让民品壮大起来,“两条腿”走路。

  中国一航常务副总经理杨育中曾在该公司内部刊物中指出,“搞民机非常难,除了飞机本身的技术难度,还有重要一点就是它特有的商品属性,这是它自身的规律,如果不尊重这个规律,按照军机思路去搞,必定会失败。”因此,在大飞机项目的“影子工程”ARJ21支线客机项目上,中国一航突破各种阻力,组建了商业化项目公司——中航商用飞机有限公司。事实上,这就是大飞机研制的第三条道路——军民结合互补的商业化道路。而这也是目前波音、空客所走的道路。

  军事经济学院训练部研究员赵建元告诉《商务周刊》,世界发达国家军事装备技术中,85%采用军民两用技术,而纯军事技术只占15%。冷战结束后,各国军费开支锐减,无力承担庞大的军事科技工业基础,而民用科研经费却在大幅增加。民用研究发展投资的持续增加和民用科技费用飞速进步,又为武器装备研制提供了更广泛的技术储备和工业基础。他说:“发展军民两用技术,关键技术实现军民融合,成了国际潮流。”

  在军品任务依然繁重和一时仍然难以依靠自身能力独立于军工体系的大背景下,这种思想显然深刻影响着正从单一军工型向科研生产经营型转变的两大航空工业集团。《商务周刊》从中国一航的一份文件中看到,该集团的发展思路是:“坚持军民结合、寓军于民,促进军民良性互动、协调发展。”因此才有了该集团大飞机项目“一次立项、两个机型、军民统筹、系列发展”的思想,以及中航商用飞机有限公司的探路。

  但是,这条道又不断遭到批评,甚至包括中航商飞公司内部部分管理层。最被诟病的就是运行体制。原中航商飞副总设计师、工程部部长周济生认为,中国一航虽然企业化了,但仍属管理机关,“事实上,中航商飞最初成立时就存在先天不足,它有15个股东,除了一个小股东属于中航二集团,其他股东都是中国一航和它的子公司,这使得ARJ21项目实际掌握在中国一航手中,中航商飞始终无法形成一个真正自主负责的企业”。有专家认为,目前中国一航依靠其行政权力调动下属的飞机设计所、制造厂运作ARJ21项目,使这些设计所和制造厂只对中国一航的行政命令负责。甚至有人指责说,在中国一航影响下,中航商飞无法自主任命飞机设计师,5年时间换了好几任。与此同时,25亿元项目资金已近告罄,正在再次向国家申请35亿元资金。

  所有这些信息也显示出,第三条道路即使比较务实,但由于体制惯性,中国航空制造商操作商业化民机项目依旧捉襟见肘。这恐怕也是决策高层对大飞机项目迟迟难以下定决心的关键因素。

  “某种程度上,正是中国航空制造企业难以在体制上自我革命,在民机发展屡战屡败中吸取教训不力,对民机发展没有扎实详细的全盘思路,难以获得决策层的信任,从而制约了大飞机项目国家意志的实现。”中航二集团那位专家沉痛地告诉记者。

  大飞机的“蛋”为什么“孵”?

  根据中国航空工业发展研究中心的预测,尽管目前在中国内地运营有863架飞机,但未来20年里中国民用航空市场将需要补充近2600架飞机,购买价值近2000亿美元。如此庞大的市场是中国民机工业乃至航空工业起飞的绝好机会。但要实现这个目标,将机会变成现实,仍然充满了矛盾。其中最根本的一点,其实就是为什么要上大飞机?

  中国航空工业发展研究中心副主任廖全旺,从一个更广阔的视野给记者讲述了其中的逻辑。

  “中国为什么要搞大飞机?为什么在这个时间提出?国家意图到底是什么?”他告诉记者,要发展大飞机,尽管有市场、有中国经济发展和经济实力的支撑,但短期内中国的技术能力和商业操作能力差距甚大,“难道仅仅是为了填补空白,争食民机市场”?

  廖全旺认为不这样简单。改革开放后,国力所限,作为军工的航空工业一度停滞不前,渡过了一段非常苦难的日子。但前苏联解体后,尤其是波黑战争让中国决策层开始认识到,面对复杂的全新的国际局势,中国的和平发展离不开强大的国防支持,而航空工业是建设和巩固独立自主国防的重要基础。现代局部战争的实践表明,航空武器装备对战争的进程和结局都发挥着关键性作用。世界军事大国把航空武器的发展放到了更加突出的位置,美国的国防预算( 装备采购 )中1/3以上的投资是用于飞机项目的。也因此,以军品为主的中国航空工业迎来了发展的“黄金岁月”。

  然而,在这个过程中,特别是航空工业市场化变革的过程中,不论是国家还是制造商都发现,从国内市场到国际市场,军品的市场深度很有限。

  军机发展空间虽然有限,但航空装备能力又非常重要。两次海湾战争已经证明,关键时刻航空装备能够起到决定性作用。可一个悖论是,只靠国家非市场化的投入和支持模式,发展的活力和前景又难以长久。“所以,真正有发展空间的是民用航空。”廖说,民用航空可以起到寓军于民的作用,这也是欧美发达国家航空工业长盛不衰的经验所在,“也就是说,只有构建出一个军民互动的航空工业体系,国家需要的军事航空才可以谈得上可持续发展”。

  因此,在这个意义上,中国制造大飞机的着眼点并非只是发展民机工业,而是着眼于军用和民用的持续健康发展,尤其是对国防工业有着潜在和深远的意义。廖全旺告诉记者,“如果对之能够理解到这个层次,就不是站在民用航空谈民用航空,碰到任何问题和困难都不在话下。比如,即使空客和波音对我们搞大飞机再怎么样阻挠,我们也会坚定地走下去。”

  那么,现在发展大飞机是不是时机?廖全旺的分析比较独特:“对于大飞机项目,舆论指责航空工业本身不积极,但问题的关键在于国家到底怎么定位这个项目。”

  目前支持上马大飞机舆论的主要观点之一是,大型飞机作为“现代工业之花”,是一个国家科技水平、制造能力、经济基础和综合国力的集中体现,航空工业是国家战略性产业,是衡量一国制造业先进水平的“制高点”。廖全旺同意这一观点,但他认为,也要考虑到“工业之花”必须发展到一定的阶段才能够开花和结果,“如果达不到这个地步,就开不了这个花,即使开花结果也可能是苦果。为什么现在担心波音和空客的制约?就说明目前中国的工业水平、科技水平和综合国力还没有完全达到这个水平”。

  廖全旺更看重航空工业作为尖端技术发展的“引擎”作用。历史已经表明,先进航空产品的研制生产有力地促进了冶金、化工、材料、电子和机械加工等领域的技术进步,从而在技术层面上提升了国民经济发展,“国家把大飞机项目列入国家科技发展中长期规划的重大专项,就说明国家意图之一是为了让它带动科技发展。”他认为,这就像美国里根时代的“星球大战计划”,虽然“星球大战计划”花了很多钱没有搞成功,但是它极大推动了美国的高科技发展,大量技术在许多产业里孵化,带动了巨大的产业升级。日本曾作过一次500余项技术扩散案例分析,发现60%的技术源于航空工业,而且带动的出口和就业相当惊人。2000年法国航空航天工业营业额1627亿法郎,其中出口占75%,外贸顺差达640亿法郎。2001年欧盟航空航天工业直接从业人员有43.6万人,而由航空航天工业带来的欧洲就业人数达到120万人。

  2002年版《美国航空航天产业未来委员会最终报告》也指出:“航空航天工业是美国经济领域内一支强大的力量,是全球市场最有竞争力的部门之一。航空航天工业产值占国内生产总值的15%以上,并提供1500万个以上高质量的就业岗位。航空航天产品提供比其他任何生产部门都高的贸易盈余。”

  “我们对大飞机的投入,可能没有‘星球大战’那么多,甚至离成功还很遥远,但是政府科技的投入在此科技专项上的成果,将会在别的行业产生成百上千倍的辐射带动作用。”廖全旺说,从这个角度看,大飞机本身的商业成功,某种程度上已经变成了科技专项额外的“红利”。

  2005年,中国政府科技投入占整个GDP的1.3%,按照国家规划,2010年这一数字的目标是2%。科技资金翻番的增长要想带来丰厚的回报,航空工业无疑是一块“高产田”。廖全旺认为,经过近6年军用航空工业高速发展,整个航空工业有了坚实的基础,现在通过大飞机项目带动中国产业技术升级,“应该是一个最合适不过的选择”。

  现在,最让廖全旺担心的是航空工业目前多头管理的体制,难以将国家意志注入民机工业的发展中。按照目前体制,直接参与航空工业企业的部门有国资委、国防科工委、总装备部、国家发改委、财政部、科技部等等。这个问题集中到民机工业发展和大飞机项目上,某种程度上就变成了“不是一航、二航应该怎么做的问题,而是各部门怎么管航空工业的问题”。尤其是当各个部委意见不能统一的情况下,即使体现国家意志的重大科技专项工程,也不得不面对“五马分尸”的局面。上述中航二集团研究室专家认为,ARJ21项目碰到一些问题难以解决,主要原因在于找不到支持部门,决策层次不够高,最后变成了中国一航一家企业的事情,提升不到应该的战略高度。

  《商务周刊》了解到,由于项目投资规模大、周期长、系统复杂、协调面广,现在已经有人提出对大飞机项目使用三峡工程的管理模式,成立一个高层的领导机构保证项目实施,像国务院三峡建设工作委员会那样,由国务院总理担任组长,连续几届政府上百亿、几十年地持续推动。然而,这个建议仍然处在“画饼”状态。

  廖全旺认为,无论怎样变革管理体制,航空工业尤其是民机工业的发展,国家和政府必须通过国家意志做最关键的事情。比如,政府应通过体制或机制变革,使中国的航空工业在发展大飞机项目上形成合力,使国内航空公司关注、支持、参与大飞机项目的发展,让政府、航空工业、航空公司的力量联合起来,办大飞机这件中国人民最期待的大事。如能如此,就没有我们不可逾越的障碍,就没有我们不可战胜的困难。

  “如果政府塌下心来坚决搞大飞机,它们要制裁,我们也可以联合中国航空器材进口公司、中国一航、中航二集团以及三大航空公司5年不买你飞机或者推迟交易。国家把这些利益联合起来跟它们竞争,才有可能摆平阻碍。”上述中航二集团研究室专家说,“这才是美国人航空工业‘战无不胜’的精髓经验。”

wigo
June 7th, 2006, 09:28 PM
不过,“运十”不会有第二次了,美国人、欧洲人就等着做恶梦吧!
http://news.xinhuanet.com/video/2006-05/23/content_4587863.htm

tiger
June 7th, 2006, 11:14 PM
不过,“运十”不会有第二次了,美国人、欧洲人就等着做恶梦吧!
http://news.xinhuanet.com/video/2006-05/23/content_4587863.htm

看完之后觉得有这几个问题.

1.搞出来的飞机要是比空客波音落后十年,会有需求吗?

2.就算政府强制航空公司购买国产飞机,乘客会不会选择国产飞机?

wigo
June 7th, 2006, 11:29 PM
看完之后觉得有这几个问题.

1.搞出来的飞机要是比空客波音落后十年,会有需求吗?

2.就算政府强制航空公司购买国产飞机,乘客会不会选择国产飞机?

一言以蔽之,这个需要国家行为。比如不但飞机便宜,而且机票便宜,当然这肯定涉及WTO的规定。不过,大国的好处就是筹码多,嘿嘿。另外,波音和空客也有很多政府行为,所以彼此彼此。

xoxery
June 8th, 2006, 03:31 AM
看完之后觉得有这几个问题.

1.搞出来的飞机要是比空客波音落后十年,会有需求吗?

2.就算政府强制航空公司购买国产飞机,乘客会不会选择国产飞机?
不是这样看的,运十是70年代末,80年代初搞出来的,是中国第一架完全自主的飞机,只不过仅仅试飞过两次就停了,改为进口波音飞机.

后来觉得这样损失很大,因为自己的技术一直停滞在原有水平.

也就是说,现在中国搞自己的飞机,目的本来就不在商业化和需求上,目的是培养训练自己的人才和技术,就跟搞宇航一样,即使落后也是自己的.现在的市场是被欧美占领,抑制了中国相关的市场发展,所以中国就不得不用国家来代替市场购买,这个其实就是苏联那种技术举国体制形成的原因.走市场化不通,因为无法与先进国家竞争,差的太远,而且是越来越远,马太效应,所以要国家补贴计划.不过俄罗斯的这番付出在苏联解体之后白费了,因为大量技术人员涌入欧美,俄罗斯实际上是用自己的国家补贴为西方培养了大批技术人才.

wigo
June 15th, 2006, 05:07 AM
“西飞”向印尼出口15架“新舟”60客机 内冷外热:国产涡桨飞机遇尴尬

http://finance.sina.com.cn/roll/20060614/0054743229.shtml


http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/1147613597183_xumanci20060512113847.jpg


报讯(记者 陈子建)冰火两重天。国产涡桨飞机在国内不受“待见”的同时,却受到国际市场的欢迎。昨天记者从国资委获悉,中航一集团下属的西安飞机工业集团公司(下称“西飞”),与印度尼西亚鸽记航空公司签订了15架“新舟”60客机的购销合同。

  中国一航集团称,这是“新舟”60目前最大一笔出口合同,第一架飞机将于今年9月份交付,而其余14架在明年分批交付。2005年,印尼适航认为“新舟”60符合印尼适航规章


的要求,并于5月份向西飞颁发了“新舟”60型号合格证。该飞机是西飞自主研制的新一代涡桨支线客机,该机是在50座级的运七200A飞机基础上改进改型完成,飞机在总体性能上达到了当代先进涡桨支线客机的水平。

  但由于所设置的税率已达到23%以上,因此现阶段支线涡桨飞机在国内运营的情况并不理想。据了解,世界第一大涡桨飞机制造商ATR公司目前也只有5架飞机在南航新疆公司运营。而此前该公司首席执行官菲利普·巴尼亚多曾专程来华,与民航总局和航空公司进行谈判。

  对此,中国民航干部管理学院一位专家表示,由于在今年年初民航总局明确表示将放开支线航空市场,因此对于各支线客机生产企业来说,是一个难得的机会。而且在世界范围内,支线客机需求的增长比较迅猛,而对于国内,此类需求可能主要集中在新成立的民营航空公司,而这一数字可能突破两位数。而且,目前国内相关部门的政策已经开始松动。据了解,除在税收方面的政策外,国内支线航空公司在购买支线飞机时,还有可能获得相关的财政支持。

wigo
June 15th, 2006, 05:11 AM
这是万里长征第一步,NNDL。

wigo
June 15th, 2006, 05:20 AM
第三架新舟60飞机交付津方 成中津合作典范( 图 )

http://gb.chinabroadcast.cn/8606/2006/01/19/106@866891.htm


http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/nj0601180082.jpg

国际在线报道(记者王蕾): 继去年交付两架中国产的新舟60飞机后, 18日在津巴布韦首都哈拉雷国际机场, 中国驻津大使张宪一代表中国政府将第三架新舟60飞机正式交付给津方。津巴布韦津财政部长赫伯特·穆雷瓦、交通和通讯部长克里斯托弗·姆绍威和津内阁其他成员登机参观了这架飞机。据悉, 这架飞机很快将同其他两架飞机一起投入运营, 来改善津巴布韦航空公司在国内和地区航线的经营状况。

  第三架飞机比前两架有几十项改进

  尽管天空下着小雨, 津巴布韦人欢迎新舟60的热情不减。 伴着激昂的鼓乐声, 津交通和通讯部长姆绍威笑容满面地为第三架新舟60飞机进行剪彩。 随后, 津财政部长穆雷瓦第一个登上了飞机, 其他内阁成员也登机进行体验。 姆绍威部长告诉记者, 去年5月4日交付给津方的前两架新舟60飞机目前已经在津巴布韦上空以及南部非洲地区上空飞行了8个月, 实践已经证明它们是高质量的飞机, 而这8个月的运营也给了中方和津方的工程师们改进飞机的机会, 他自己登机后的感受是第三架飞机比前两架更为舒适。

  飞机的制造商中国航空技术进出口公司负责非洲地区业务的代表刘松涛告诉记者,新舟60飞机是新一代国产支线客机, 而津巴布韦是该公司第一个海外客户,格外受到重视。 因此去年5月向津交付了头两架飞机后, 中方根据客户的反馈, 改善了一些部件的可靠性,加固了窗户和座位, 增大了飞行员的空间, 使之成为更加人性化的产品。

  中航技驻津总代表屠征星透露, 第三架飞机比前两架有大大小小几十项改进。 他说,根据前两架飞机的使用经验, 津方提出飞机播音声音比较大,为此中方找到提高这种声音的德国公司改善播音效果, 还为飞行员增加了挂衣服的地方,增大了货舱容积,改进了行李锁的质量, 还在这架飞机的后面减少了一排座位, 从前两架的52个座改为现在的48个座, 以便让乘客空间大一些, 舒适感强一些。

  “第三架飞机让津巴布韦旅游业前景更好”

  从飞机上下来后, 津巴布韦旅游部长弗朗西斯·奈马接受了记者的采访。 他高兴地表示,前两架新舟60飞机帮助津巴布韦恢复了一些由于飞机不足而停飞的旅游线路, 而现在的第三架飞机将使津旅游业前景更好。 他解释说,现在乘客要去游览维多利亚大瀑布时,通常要在布拉瓦约停一下才能到瀑布,因为一架飞机一天同时去三四个目的地, 为此乘客经常抱怨飞机不准时,让他们很难安排旅游日程。 而第三架新舟60飞机投入运营后, 津方就可以重新安排航班, 保证飞机直接飞往旅游目的地,这样游客就可以安排好自己的时间。 奈马部长说, 不仅津国内旅游, 地区旅游也可以得到促进, 因为原来飞赞比亚一周一次, 现在就可增加为两次, 这样游客就不必等一周才能返回了。 而前往马拉维和其他国家的航班也可增加。

  津巴布韦驻中国大使克里斯托弗.穆茨万格瓦也特意从北京飞来参加交付仪式。 他告诉记者, 津巴布韦和南部非洲地区旅游资源丰富, 游客经长途飞行到达津巴布韦之后,由于机票昂贵, 他们很自然地希望能多去些景点, 不仅游览津巴布韦, 还能游览周边国家。 而中国产的新舟60飞机本身就有起降方便、省油等特点,再加上中津技术人员不断改善飞机性能, 使之成为适合津巴布韦和非洲气候条件的飞机, 这就为促进津国内和整个地区的旅游提供了很大的帮助。

  “新舟60项目是中津合作的典范”

  在交付仪式之后, 中国驻津大使张宪一告诉记者, 新舟60飞机是中国完全自主制造的航空产品, 从前两架飞机在津运行状况来看, 这个项目不仅在经济上产生了效益, 还带来了社会效益和政治效益。

  张大使表示, 这一高质量的高科技产品树立了中国的形象和中国产品的形象, 并在非洲地区留下了深刻的印象。 事实上, 它已经产生了辐射效益, 继津巴布韦之后, 周边的一些国家, 如安哥拉、博茨瓦纳还有西非的加纳等国都对新舟60飞机表示出浓厚兴趣。 此外, 他指出, 津航良好的经营产生了经济效益, 必然对改善老百姓的生活起到一定的作用, 而普通的津巴布韦人也通过新舟60飞机认识到中国真诚的援助, 有助于他们更好地了解中国。

  中国航空技术进出口公司负责非洲地区业务的代表刘松涛告诉记者,到目前为止,中航技已经向世界各地特别是发展中国家出口了1200多架飞机, 而非洲是该公司一个重要的出口地区。 2004年, 中航技向津巴布韦出售了三架飞机,2005年,该公司与非洲、亚洲和南美的6个国家签署了14个购机合同,他们期望今年的销售会继续增长。

  津巴布韦驻中国大使克里斯托弗.穆茨万格瓦在接受记者采访时表示新舟60项目是中津合作的典范, 它为双方带来双赢。 他指出, 这一项目帮助中国制造商打开了非洲乃至国际市场, 而新舟60飞机本身运营成本低,也能让津航在较短时间内盈利。 他说,中国已经向世界证明她不仅是商品出口国, 也是技术出口国,包括航空、电信、农业和生物技术等。 他说, 中国是发展中国家, 和非洲国家一样经历过被列强掠夺资源的困难时期, 但是现在中国经济的发展举世瞩目, 没有人能忽视中国对周边经济和国际市场的带动作用, 非洲国家为中国的发展感到高兴, “不仅因为中国一直是非洲国家的朋友, 而且因为她为非洲提供了榜样, 为非洲的发展带来了希望。”

wigo
June 15th, 2006, 05:21 AM
从支线飞机开始,就像古人说的“润物细无声”

hzkiller
July 4th, 2006, 03:17 AM
十一五期间我国将适时启动大飞机的研制

人民网军事在线北京7月3日讯 记者杨铁虎报道:在我国的十一五规划当中,已经把制造大飞机的计划纳入其中,日前记者就此采访了中国科学院力学研究所的相关研究人员。

在德国和日本工作了6年的杨国伟现在是中国科学院力学研究所的一名研究员,目前他终于完成了大飞机研究总体论证报告。

杨国伟告诉人民网记者,对大飞机工程而言,中国航空工业面临的挑战一方面是要把飞机造出来,这是解决国家需求的重点工程,其重要意义不言而喻;另一方面在我国整体实力有了较大提高的今天,大型飞机的发展一定要从长计议,一定要形成自主知识产权,一定要具备自主创新能力,也就是说要尽快切实地拥有大型飞机研制能力并形成具有国际竞争力的大飞机产业。

杨国伟说,“大飞机计划是一项中长期规划,经过众多航空人的努力,相信在2020年,我们国家自主研发制造的大型飞机终将翱翔蓝天。”

中国正面临着国内民航市场的快速成长,据美国波音公司预测,未来20年,中国还需要购买民用客机2100~2400架,价值高达1970亿美元。

相关链接:大飞机是指起飞总重量超过100吨的运输类飞机,包括军用和民用大型运输机,也包括150座以上的干线客机。它是民航使用最广泛的主力机型。 



http://news.xinhuanet.com/fortune/2006-07/04/xinsrc_4320303031505426320819.jpg

hzkiller
July 4th, 2006, 03:19 AM
解读:大型飞机等项目列入《规划纲要》重大专项
造大型飞机本报记者 陈建辉,是我国航空人许久的梦想。我国大型飞机的研制和试飞几乎和欧洲的空中客车同步,于上世纪70年代开始研制,80年代初上天试飞,
到过我国的部分大城市,6次进藏运送物资。可这一梦想在上世纪80年代中期因实施以合资为手段的“三步走”战略而中断。

今天,我国航空人的大型飞机梦要圆了!大型飞机和另外15个项目一同被列入《规划纲要》的重大专项。我国为什么需要实施这些重大专项呢?

着眼于提升产业竞争力

《规划纲要》确定的16个重大专项是:核心电子器件、高端通用芯片及基础软件,极大规模集成电路制造技术及成套工艺,新一代宽带无线移动通信,高档数控机床与基础制造技术,大型油气田及煤层气开发,大型先进压水堆及高温气冷堆核电站,水体污染控制与治理,转基因生物新品种培育,重大新药创制,艾滋病和病毒性肝炎等重大传染病防治,大型飞机,高分辨率对地观测系统,载人航天与探月工程等。

细细品味这16个重大专项,人们不难发现,它们涉及信息、生物等战略产业领域,能源资源环境和人民健康等重大紧迫问题,以及军民两用技术和国防技术,每一个专项都瞄准了一群核心技术,具有明确的物化目标,凸现“财富化特征”。这表明,我国的科技创新模式正在发生着重大转变:从以往注重单项创新转变为更加重视各种技术的集成,强调在集成基础上形成有竞争力的产品和产业。

长期以来,我国的科技计划比较注重单项技术,忽视相关技术的优化组合与集成。显然,单项技术很难形成市场竞争力,实施具有极好的关联性和集成性的重大专项,可以促进相关产业群的成长,形成具有竞争力的产品,带来巨大的经济效益。以大型飞机为例,它不仅可以像加强基础设施建设一样拉动经济增长,而且可以提高经济增长质量。按单位重量的价格比较,民用船舶为1,轿车为9,彩电为50,计算机为300,喷气客机为800,航空发动机为1400。同时,大型飞机制造业具有较强的产业关联度,其技术扩散可以广泛延伸至制造业,能有效带动装备制造业、数控机床产业、电子产业、材料产业、发动机制造业等相关产业重大关键技术的群体突破,实现跨越式发展。美国兰德公司的研究表明,利用飞机技术派生出来的产品销售额比用这种技术制造的航空产品的销售额大15倍,而其带动技术升级的衍生效益就更大了。

增强综合国力的必由之路

新中国的历史上,以“两弹一星”、载人航天、杂交水稻等为代表的若干重大项目的实施,对整体提升综合国力起到了至关重要的作用:

————上世纪50年代,我国举全国之力成功实施的“两弹一星”工程,动员和组织了近千家单位、上万名科技工作者参与,为新中国的发展赢得了长期安全的和平环境,赢得了受人尊重的国际地位。

————上世纪80年代,我国的“三系法”

杂交水稻研究动员了全国上万名科技工作者和100多家企业参与,累计种植面积超过30亿亩,占我国稻谷产量的60%左右,对解决13亿人口大国的粮食安全做出了巨大贡献。

————载人航天工程是又一个跨部门、跨学科实施重大科技项目的典范,它的成功,使我国成为世界第三个拥有载人航天技术的国家。

———“十五”期间实施的电动汽车专项,历经4年完成了发达国家近8年的技术进步,已自主研制出纯电动汽车、混合动力汽车、燃料电池汽车的性能样车。在上海举行的“必比登”世界清洁能源汽车挑战赛上,我国与世界各国的清洁能源汽车同台竞赛,在加速、制动、操控性能、排放等所有规定项目中取得了优异成绩,令跨国汽车公司老总竖起了大拇指:“电动汽车发展看中国。”

美国、欧洲、日本、韩国等都把围绕国家目标组织实施重大专项计划作为提高国家竞争力的重要措施。美国有曼哈顿计划、阿波罗登月计划、星球大战计划、信息高速公路计划,以及近年来组织实施的国家纳米技术计划和氢能研发计划等;欧洲国家先后实施了尤里卡计划、科技框架计划、“空中客车”计划、伽利略计划等;韩国实施了先导技术研发计划、替代能源计划等。

实践表明,重大科技项目对于各国提升科技实力和核心竞争力,都产生了积极而重大的影响。

有所为,有所不为

有限的科技资源和多样化的科技需求,决定了我国科技发展不可能在所有领域进入世界前沿,必须突出重点,遵循有所为、有所不为的原则,选择具有一定基础和优势、关系国计民生和国家安全的重大专项,集中力量,以技术集成创新形成战略产品和新兴产业为重点,实现跨越式发展,出奇制胜。

《规划纲要》确定的16项重大专项,针对我国在能源、水资源、空间、海洋、生物、信息等领域所面临的形势和紧迫需求,具有高度战略性、前瞻性和全局性,并具备如下特点:一是紧密结合经济社会发展的重大需求,培育能形成具有核心自主知识产权、对企业自主创新能力的提高具有重大推动作用的战略性产业;二是突出对产业竞争力整体提升具有全局性影响、带动性强的关键共性技术;三是解决制约经济社会发展的重大瓶颈问题;四是体现军民结合、寓军于民,对保障国家安全和增强综合国力具有重大战略意义;五是切合我国国情,国力能够承受。

显然,这些重大专项是为了实现国家目标,通过核心技术突破和资源集成,需要在一定时限内完成的重大战略产品、关键共性技术和重大工程,是我国科技发展的重中之重。我们有理由相信,这些重大专项的实施,必将在发展高新技术产业、促进传统产业升级、解决国民经济发展瓶颈问题、提高人民健康水平和保障国家安全等方面发挥出重要作用。

feverwin
July 4th, 2006, 03:30 AM
It's grateful of you to post so many patriotic threads here, however it's better if you can translate them into English...otherwise we can just post them in the Chinese forums...

gaoanyu
July 4th, 2006, 12:30 PM
Your picture shows an rendered airforce plane (probably a bomber according to its size) whilst the post is about passenger jets.:)

italy
July 4th, 2006, 02:29 PM
I can translate it !!! with china vocabular !! soft

wigo
July 28th, 2006, 07:35 PM
毛主席说:“星星之火,可以燎原”,哈哈!

http://www.eviewweek.com/html/2006-07/89155.shtml

新华网西安7月28日电(记者 毛海峰)中国航空工业第一集团公司(简称中国一航)28日在西安阎良飞机城举行仪式,向老挝航空公司、刚果(布)航空公司分别交付了其购买的首架新舟60飞机。

至此,中国国产的新舟60飞机已累计签订国外销售合同32架,涉及非洲、亚洲、美洲、大洋洲的8个国家。

在交付仪式上,中国一航西安飞机工业(集团)有限公司(简称西飞公司)副董事长孟祥凯分别与刚果(布)交通部部长萨利萨、老挝航空公司总经理松潘签署了交接证书。

新舟60飞机是西飞公司严格按照与国际接轨的标准设计、生产出来的新型涡桨支线客机。该机在安全性、经济性、舒适性、维护性等方面达到或接近了世界同类飞机的水平,直接使用成本比国外飞机低10%到20%。除国内市场外,新舟60飞机在东南亚、拉美、非洲等地区具有广阔的市场前景。预计到今年底,新舟60飞机将累计交付国外用户11架,分布在非洲及东南亚的6个国家。

Rahmani
September 4th, 2006, 12:39 PM
US has Boeing...
Europe has Airbus...

Does China have her own commercial aircrafts?

pflo777
September 4th, 2006, 01:00 PM
3years ago a chinese company bought the bankrupt german dornier firm, which developed a regional jet about the size of airbus A318.
Dornier ran out of money because the development of the aircraft was to expansive, but it was almost complete.
Even the first protoype was presented to the public.........
After the chinese firm bought the firm, all technical things were transferred to china.
But I dont know, if the aircraft gets produced there now....

Rahmani
September 4th, 2006, 01:18 PM
Thank you pflo777

Its time China strats investing in competition for Airbus and Boeing.
With 1.3 billion people and over 3 billion people in the region. There will be a high demand for affordable, high quality planes, without all the extras.

wigo
September 4th, 2006, 08:47 PM
China has several companies making regional jets, one named Xinfei has exported its products to Zimbabuwei and Indonisia,

another one is this
http://www.china.org.cn/english/scitech/159075.htm

As for jumbo, China successfully made Yun-10 in 1980s. Unfortunetly, this project was suspended by Deng Xiaoping, as demanded by Mcdonald to invest in China. Some people argued that it is the only big mistake made by Deng. But now, a new project has been initiated to rebuild a chinese jumbo. Currently most of these information is in Chinese only, understandable, hehe.

wigo
March 8th, 2007, 09:57 PM
中国重启大型飞机研制

《财经》网络版 [2007-03-08]

http://www.caijing.com.cn/newcn/home/todayspec/2007-03-08/16680.shtml


 专项论证已获国务院常务会议通过,民用客机研发机构定点上海,研制预算数百亿元
专项论证已获国务院常务会议通过,民用客机研发机构定点上海,研制预算数百亿元

【网络版专稿/《财经》杂志记者 付涛 罗昌平】《财经》近日获悉,中国大型飞机研制专项论证报告2月底已获国务院常务会议原则通过。会议初步决定就大飞机专项成立独立研发机构,其中民用客机研发机构将定点上海。这成为国家16个重大专项论证报告中最早获得国务院原则性通过的项目。
  消息人士称,温家宝总理在国务院常务会议上提出要求,大型飞机研制必须以体制创新为前提。而此前已有媒体陆续报道,国防工业投资拟向民营资本开放。
  据悉,大型飞机专项论证小组由北京航空航天大学校长李未,中国工程院院土、原中航二集团总经理张彦仲等航空界资深人士参与。论证报告内容包括了150座以上大型客运飞机的研制,初定研制经费达数百亿元。这意味着自上世纪 80年代国内首个大型客机自主研制项目——“运十”飞机研发工作停止后,中国重启大型民用飞机自主研制计划。多年来,胡溪涛等多位航空界专家曾多次上书中央领导,恳请重启自主研制大飞机。
  3月5日,温家宝总理在十届全国人大第五次会议作政府工作报告时提及,“要围绕建设创新型国家,认真落实国家中长期科学和技术发展规划纲要提出的目标任务。实施国家重大科技专项,努力攻克一批事关国计民生和国家安全的核心关键技术,依托重点工程推进重大装备自主化建设,力争在重点优势领域取得突破。”
  此前的2006年2月,国务院制定了《国家中长期科学和技术发展规划纲要(2006—2020年)》。该《纲要》确定了核心电子器件、高端通用芯片及基础软件,极大规模集成电路制造技术及成套工艺,新一代宽带无线移动通信,高档数控机床与基础制造技术,大型油气田及煤层气开发,大型先进压水堆及高温气冷堆核电站,水体污染控制与治理,转基因生物新品种培育,重大新药创制,艾滋病和病毒性肝炎等重大传染病防治,大型飞机,高分辨率对地观测系统,载人航天与探月工程等16个重大专项,涉及信息、生物等战略产业领域,能源资源环境和人民健康等重大紧迫问题,以及军民两用技术和国防技术。
   2006年3月,国务院确定将在“十一五”期间启动大型飞机研制项目。
  上世纪 80年代中期,在“运十”飞机研制停止后,国家制定了民用飞机工业发展“三步走计划”:第一步是装配和部分制造支干线飞机,当时主要是装配麦道90系列飞机;第二步与国外合作,设计研制100座级飞机;第三步是2010年实现自助研制飞机。
  然而,1997年,波音和麦道公司合并,麦道90系列飞机计划未得顺利实施。此后,空客公司于1998年终止了与中国AE-100飞机联合研制项目。至此,中国民用大型飞机研制暂停。■

wigo
March 13th, 2007, 09:20 PM
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-03/13/content_5838267.htm


BEIJING, March 13 -- China is expected to begin flying large, homegrown commercial aircraft by 2020, with cargo flights expected to take off slightly ahead of passenger ones, industrial insiders said yesterday.

"We envision our own planes being in the air within the next 10 to 15 years," national lawmaker and aviation expert Liu Daxiang told China Daily.

Transport planes will be introduced first, as they are easier to design and develop, he said on the sideline of the annual session of the National People's Congress (NPC).

Liu, a member of the top legislature's Standing Committee, is a key advocate of the large plane project, which he dubbed a "symbol of an innovative country".

Liu has made motions at each of the past three annual NPC sessions, urging the government to start research and development of large aircraft to ensure the country meets the surging demand for air travel with its own planes.

A China Aviation Industry Corp I (AVIC I) think-tank earlier estimated that the country would need 2,230 large airliners by 2025, which is considerably less than Boeing's market forecast of 3,900 by the same year.

Thanks in part to Liu's effort, the government last year approved the large plane project, but fell short of specifying how the program would be implemented.

Echoing the lawmaker, Liu Gaozhuo, former president of the AVIC I, said he believed large transport aircraft for both civilian and military use should be developed in China.

"There are already mounting demands for large transport aircraft," he said.

"And planes for freight and passengers share at least 70 percent of the same components."

Talk of such large planes taking to the sky within the next decade is stirring up heated discussions on the ground, especially among those attending the current annual meetings of the NPC and the country's top political advisory body.
Gao Zhenghong, a member of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, yesterday said she had proposed the government make Shaanxi Province the base for the design, assembly and testing of both transport and passenger aircraft.

The Northwest China province has accumulated "years of expertise and experience" in designing, developing and test-flying planes, she said, and choosing Shaanxi as the large plane R&D centre would also give a boost to the country's massive "western development" program.

Qin Yuqin, another political advisor from Sichuan, said the Southwest China province was better positioned to become the design and manufacturing base for large aircraft.

The country's latest model of fighter jet, the Jian-10, was made in Chengdu, the provincial capital, he said.

Liu Daxiang said that the government had not yet decided on the locations for the bases for design or production.

He said both the AVIC I and AVIC II, the country's major aircraft manufacturers, would join forces to make large planes with help from local aviation businesses and institutions.

The engines for the large planes would be developed by the AVIC I, he said.

(Source: China Daily)

wigo
March 14th, 2007, 08:12 PM
http://english.people.com.cn/200703/12/eng20070312_356627.html


More than 70 regional jets with China's own innovation have been ordered and the maiden flight is scheduled for March 2008, said senior executives of the aircraft makers involved in the project.

ARJ-21, which is short for "advanced regional jet for the 21st century", is expected to be delivered to clients beginning the third quarter of 2009, said Liu Daxiang, a senior executive of the China Aviation Industry Corporation I.

The production of ARJ-21 components is going on well, and major parts including the nose and wing have been sent to Shanghai for final assembly, said Liu on the sidelines of the annual session of the National People's Congress (NPC), the top legislature.

The buyers include leading regional airlines such as Shanghai Airlines Co., Ltd. and Shandong Aviation Group, said Li Fangyong, board chairman and general manager of Shenyang Aircraft Corporation. An electric renting company in Shanghai and an airline company based in Xiamen of Fujian Province have also signed letters of intent to buy the aircraft.

Both Liu and Li are NPC deputies, or legislators. And their companies contribute to parts of the plane.

The feeder liner is expected to see a booming business with the country's policy of supporting regional aviation, Li said.

ARJ-21 has a passenger cabin 3.14 meters wide and 2.06 meters high with 78 to 105 seats. It can fly at an altitude ceiling of 39, 000 feet.

Beginning 2002, the ARJ-21 project joins the hands of eight domestic aviation companies and 19 international component suppliers.

Source: Xinhua



http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/arj5.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/200608281139571c3d5.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/20060525090755881.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/0620_paris.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/ARJ21_1.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/zxffj.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/xinsrc_5820603010802937155193.jpg

Waldenstrom
March 20th, 2007, 09:47 AM
nice developments! :)

cyberjaya
March 21st, 2007, 10:00 AM
bravo!

koogle
March 23rd, 2007, 06:54 PM
it's a great plan! let's hope for the best. :)

but to be honest, I'm not too optmistic about it. China still has a long long way to go to master the technologies. 2020 is 13 years from now, and I think it might be a little short to achieve this goal. Just look at the cars for example, it's been so many years that China makes cars, either by joint-venture or purely developed by Chinese (although I highly doubt about the existence of such a car, I mean both designed and manufactured fully by Chinese ...), but China has still not yet been able to produce a reliable, good quality, efficient car. Same thing with military aircrafts. For sure, China is able to produce some parts that are of very good quality, but for the parts that need top-notch technologies, such as the engine, radar, China still has a long way to go. Even if China masters the technologies by 2020, I still believe that buyers (both Chinese and Western) would prefer buying planes from Boeing or Airbus, because their technologies have been matured. From what I have observed, even Chinese people themselves don't really trust Chinese-made products, such as cars, electronics, computers...

anyways, it's just my opinion. like I said, the plan is very ambitious, and it would definitely be a great achievement. let's hope that China can make a good plane one day, because we, the end consumers, will benefit from it, hopefully the price of a plane tickect can become cheaper.... :cheers:

cladiv
March 23rd, 2007, 08:19 PM
Just look at the cars for example, it's been so many years that China makes cars, either by joint-venture or purely developed by Chinese (although I highly doubt about the existence of such a car, I mean both designed and manufactured fully by Chinese ...), but China has still not yet been able to produce a reliable, good quality, efficient car.

Don't agree.
Considering the fact that it's relatively not many years that china is effectively in the automotive industry (10-15 years), chinese car makers are doing quite well, in fact in the coming years you will see the first cars being exported into the US and european market.
Remember that it took almost 50 years to Japan to become what it is today and about 25 to Korea.It looks like China will take much less than that.
Remember about Chery,Faw and Geely; these are a few brands I bet you will come across frequently in the coming future.:cheers:

wigo
March 23rd, 2007, 08:54 PM
China has made large plane (运十) in 1970~80s, which successfully made several flights including one to Lhasa (be aware of the altitude).

The decision to abolish 运十 project was made by Deng Xiaoping, and is still highly controversial now. But it coincided with McDonnel-Douglas, which is already part of Boeing now, started investiment in China.

But anyway, it is not like China starts from ground zero.

Enjoy the pictures of 运十
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/U1220P27T1D426330F3DT20070112093244.jpg

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/20060414032101755.jpg

And more are here,
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=201326592&cl=2&lm=-1&tn=baiduimage&pv=&word=%D4%CB%CA%AE&z=0

cladiv
March 23rd, 2007, 09:43 PM
I'd say that the decision of McDonnel-Douglas to open an assembly line for MD80 in China has benefited the chinese aviation industry enormously in terms of know how.
In fact, I believe the AVIC narrowbody with rear mounted engines which will take the skies in a sometime (similar to the MD80:)) comes from the knowledge accumulated by engineers during that experience.

Rahmani
March 25th, 2007, 01:45 PM
Great for the Chinese aviation industry. Hopefully in 5 to 10 years, we will see more great planes from China.

kelvinyang
March 26th, 2007, 08:52 AM
Most key components of ARJ-21 are imported.

staff
March 26th, 2007, 01:24 PM
I think orders from Chinese airlines are almost irrelevant. If China decides to start manufacturing a plane, of couse Chinese carriers will order it - they pretty much have to, I guess?

I am very happy that China is coming up with its own products though.
This is only the beginning!

koogle
March 26th, 2007, 08:23 PM
hmm... doesn't the ARJ-21 look almost exactly the same as Boeing-717 (former MD-95)?

http://www.theairlinehub.com/uploads/cert14.jpg
http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Fall03/Pimentel/h144.jpg

interestingly enough, the Boeing-717 was also designed for the 100-seat market, but its productuon was ended in January 2005...

:)

wigo
March 26th, 2007, 09:11 PM
Most commercial planes are similar in general apperance. See the two planes from Boeing and Airbus.
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/monarch-airlines-boeing-787.jpg
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i55/beethovenmusic/.jpg
What's matter is the internal design. Next time, please consult with Boeing first before you ask such question. :)

Saigoneseguy
March 26th, 2007, 09:18 PM
^^ Do you mean the a3XX and A380 are two different aircraft models?

They are the same 1.

koogle
March 27th, 2007, 11:30 PM
Most commercial planes are similar in general apperance. See the two planes from Boeing and Airbus.

yes, you are prefectly right, all air planes share some similarities more or less, the 2 planes you've shown here are no exception. but we can still see some pretty distinctive differececs between the two, such as the wings, the rear part of the fuselage (that is the part of the body after the wings), etc.

but come on, the ARJ-21 and Boeing-717 are just virtually the same. even the cockpit window and the section where the wings are attached to the fuselage look exactly the same. I can't find much difference between the 2, ok, maybe the body paint.

don't get me wrong, I love China and I love Chinese food, it's just that it bothers me sometimes when they claim something to be "China's own innovation" and they actually insist on it, while the actual thing isn't original at all...

:sleepy:

wigo
March 27th, 2007, 11:51 PM
yes, you are prefectly right, all air planes share some similarities more or less, the 2 planes you've shown here are no exception. but we can still see some pretty distinctive differececs between the two, such as the wings, the rear part of the fuselage (that is the part of the body after the wings), etc.

but come on, the ARJ-21 and Boeing-717 are just virtually the same. even the cockpit window and the section where the wings are attached to the fuselage look exactly the same. I can't find much difference between the 2, ok, maybe the body paint.

don't get me wrong, I love China and I love Chinese food, it's just that it bothers me sometimes when they claim something to be "China's own innovation" and they actually insist on it, while the actual thing isn't original at all...

:sleepy:

ARJ21's wing is distinctively different, and there are many places besides the paint.

And the rear part of the fuselage between the two planes are distinctively different? Are you joking?

You are right that ARJ might learned a lot from MD's body design. But again, what's matter is the internal design. I am pretty sure Boeing knows what is going on in China. So, consult with Boeing first, PLEASE.

Anyway, just to be fair, the body design of ARJ is not innovative, but I guess the internal is. :)

koogle
March 28th, 2007, 01:35 AM
ARJ21's wing is distinctively different, and there are many places besides the paint.

And the rear part of the fuselage between the two planes are distinctively different? Are you joking?

You are right that ARJ might learned a lot from MD's body design. But again, what's matter is the internal design. I am pretty sure Boeing knows what is going on in China. So, consult with Boeing first, PLEASE.

Anyway, just to be fair, the body design of ARJ is not innovative, but I guess the internal is. :)


can't you see it? the body line of the rear part of the Boeing plane is curved, but that of the plane painted Air Transat is flat straight.

ok, the rest of what you said is fair enough... :)

wigo
March 28th, 2007, 02:50 AM
http://news.xinhuanet.com/video/2007-03/27/content_5900937.htm

Corinthian
March 30th, 2007, 06:43 PM
It's a pity. 20 years…YUN-10.

benedetton_alexandra
March 31st, 2007, 05:23 PM
it's a great plan! let's hope for the best. :)

but to be honest, I'm not too optmistic about it. China still has a long long way to go to master the technologies. 2020 is 13 years from now, and I think it might be a little short to achieve this goal. Just look at the cars for example, it's been so many years that China makes cars, either by joint-venture or purely developed by Chinese (although I highly doubt about the existence of such a car, I mean both designed and manufactured fully by Chinese ...), but China has still not yet been able to produce a reliable, good quality, efficient car. Same thing with military aircrafts. For sure, China is able to produce some parts that are of very good quality, but for the parts that need top-notch technologies, such as the engine, radar, China still has a long way to go. Even if China masters the technologies by 2020, I still believe that buyers (both Chinese and Western) would prefer buying planes from Boeing or Airbus, because their technologies have been matured. From what I have observed, even Chinese people themselves don't really trust Chinese-made products, such as cars, electronics, computers...

anyways, it's just my opinion. like I said, the plan is very ambitious, and it would definitely be a great achievement. let's hope that China can make a good plane one day, because we, the end consumers, will benefit from it, hopefully the price of a plane tickect can become cheaper.... :cheers:


it's actually getting better as we post. anyway what matters to me is that the technological gap is closing. that is a good thing. let things come naturally.

tiger
April 4th, 2007, 01:53 PM
经济观察网讯 一度热议的“大飞机”总装花落谁家一事,3日在京一锤定音。

据香港《文汇报》报道,西安阎良国家航空产业基地管委会主任金干生接受采访时透露,中国“大飞机”总装项目选址已经确定,大型运输机的总装基地在西安,而大型客机的总装基地将落户上海。

金干生特地纠正,早前有人指出整个“大飞机”项目落户西安和上海的说法并不准确。目前确定的选址仅是指总装部分,这一步骤占大飞机组装总工作量的4%-5%,大部分零件仍需要通过全球采购获得。

另据《中华工商时报》报道,作为支撑国家大型飞机自主研制所急需的关键重型装备———800M N模锻液压机重大装备项目建设方案3日在北京通过了专家委员会的论证,并同时宣告这一世界吨位最大的模锻液压机项目将在西安阎良国家航空产业基地正式启动。

重型模锻液压机是关系到国家安全、经济发展的战略性、基础性设备,当今世界上的航空强国或地区都拥有450M N以上的重型模锻液压机。如美国拥有两台450M N模锻液压机,俄罗斯拥有两台750M N模锻液压机,位于欧洲的法国则拥有一台650M N模锻液压机。它们分别建于上世纪的50年代、60年代和70年代。我国要成为航空制造强国、实现大飞机的自主研制,就必须装备自己的重型模锻液压机。

报道称,实施体制创新是该项目的显著特征。该项目既有陕西省产业投资公司、西安阎良国家航空产业基地直接投资,又有国有企业(中国一航红原航空锻铸公司)、民营企业(西安三角航空科技公司)和大学(清华大学)参与,体制机制灵活先进。该项目预期总投资10亿元,将在全面计划、统一设计的原则下,分两期实施。项目建成以后,将超过前苏联、美国、法国、德国等国家锻压设备的吨位水平,填补我国大型锻压设备的空白,并将为我国大飞机的起飞奠定坚实的基础。

dinmu
April 19th, 2007, 09:11 AM
2007年04月19日 10:15 《环球》杂志

  也许,从中国宣布将建造大飞机那一刻起,波音、空客这对昔日竞争对手就开始走向了联盟。他们联盟的优势,正是基于曾经彼此惨烈厮杀的经验。

  “中国确实是个挑战”

  2007年3月16日晚,美国加州贝弗利山上,一所豪华别墅中正在举行着一场小型晚宴。晚宴的主人是国际金融租赁公司董事长兼总裁史蒂文·乌德沃尔哈齐,与他共进晚餐的,都是美欧航空业的重量级人物,其中就包括空客的首席执行官路易斯·加卢瓦。

  尽管加卢瓦在欧洲的业务正麻烦缠身,但他仍然赶来赴宴,这本身就说明了乌德沃尔哈齐在国际航空业独一无二的地位。

  这次晚宴的话题与国际航空业的未来有关。就在一个多月前,在美国凤凰城举行的美国 航空运输贸易协会年度讨论会上,乌德沃尔哈齐的讲话令所有在场的航空业CEO们都感到意外——他热切地谈论起了中国。

  “他们想要坐到驾驶舱里,绝对不会只甘当配角,他们想要当奥斯卡的主角。”他说的是中国,“虽然我现在还不会预见到他们将取得巨大的商业成功,但是我认为他们已经种下了希望的种子。”

  随后,乌德沃尔哈齐指出,中国的低成本将成为优势。“要是在西雅图,工人们需要健康保险,他们的孩子甚至需要牙医保健。假如中国人能够以更低的成本制造出大飞机来,那么市场就会被低成本的解决方案所吸引,只要它质量在那儿。因此,中国对国际航空业确实是一个挑战。”

  空客与波音的攻防对策

  讲话的结尾,对于空客和波音应该如何应对,乌德沃尔哈齐给出了两种对策。一种是防御性的,另一种则是进攻性的。防御性举措就是要确保空客和波音作为最终组装者、市场营销者的角色,尽量能拖多久就拖多久。至于进攻性举措,就是在技术上实现一个大的飞跃。波音和空客如果能够在新的替代机型技术上有一个大的飞跃,就没有人能够超越它们了。

  对于这两种对策,乌德沃尔哈齐认为,任何一种措施都可能在波音替换737以及空客替换A320时,也就是2015年的时候采用。

  对于防御性对策,波音与空客实际上已经早有准备。事实上,无论是当年印度尼西亚的努桑达拉公司还是加拿大的庞巴迪公司,在试图挤入大飞机市场时,都遭到了波音和空客的联手遏制而胎死腹中。

  当年,美国为了垄断航空关键技术,还曾试图买断罗尔斯·罗伊斯公司的发动机,但最终没有成功。可以说,波音与空客在这方面有着丰富的“作战经验”。如今,分析家指出,为了应对外来者,二者还很可能共同构筑技术壁垒。

  不过,既要争取中国未来的大飞机市场,又要“延缓中国通过翻版仿制关键技术”,这对于波音和空客而言不是那么容易。正如乌德沃尔哈齐自己所说的,“在全球化时代,你无法再像以前那样饿死你的竞争对手,因此你无法阻止。”

  至于技术性飞跃的进攻性对策,波音公司也曾尝试过。上世纪80年代,拥有垄断优势的美国航空公司票价可以定得高一些,而且当时美国民用飞机市场主要在本国,供应商与用户一起工作,技术先进的用户推动着技术先进的供应商前进。在这种情况下,当时的波音就认定保持技术领先地位是竞争的主要角斗场。

  值得注意的是,据《美国航空航天》杂志透露,如今波音公司驻莫斯科的代表处也一直在十分关注俄罗斯优秀飞机设计师和工程师的资料,最终很可能将这些人才集结在波音旗下。而空客把320总装生产线设在天津,也有争夺航空技术人才的潜在含义。

  政府补贴的悖论

  “中国制造大飞机面临重重阻碍”,这是美国最新一期《航空和空间技术周刊》一篇文章的题目。文章指出,中国要在未来的15年里制造大型商用飞机必然会面临政治、商业和技术上的大量挑战,其中政治挑战尤为瞩目。

  文章认为,“如果没有政府补贴而仅靠拷贝生产线,那么距离生产性能可靠的大型商用机还差得很远,更别说要应对国际航空公司老板们挑剔的眼光了。可一旦中国政府给予补贴,那么美国就会发火,一定会依照世贸协定相关条款对付中国。”

  《航空和空间技术周刊》的评论恰恰来自波音与空客以往的竞争经验。组建于上世纪70年代初的空客从诞生之日起就不是简单围绕商业竞争来运作的。在空客与波音近30多年的较量中,其背后的核心角色一直都是欧美政府。上世纪八九十年代两家公司就补贴问题争论不休,欧美领导人出访各国时也不忘就购买飞机展开游说,就是最好的例证。

  海湾战争后,波音与空客进行的这场战争规模和范围不断扩大。

  当时美国总统克林顿动员了他的整个政府甚至利用美国外交政策为波音公司和麦道飞机公司赢得了沙特60亿美元的订单。眼看着生意要被人抢走,时任法国总统密特朗巧妙地向沙特国王法赫德提出了其颇为关心的巴勒斯坦问题,而克林顿政府则同样以邻近地区政策做出了回应。

  1994年3月底,波音与麦道获得订单已成定局,但他们都知道,如果没有白宫,这场战争是无法打赢的。因此,订单的签署不是在当时的波音总部西雅图或麦道的加州长滩,而是颇具象征意义地选在了白宫。

  在订单的签署仪式上,克林顿意味深长地说道:“这次胜利应该归功于美国大兵而不是工厂的工人,这是美国实力与影响力的一大胜利。”作为签署订单的另一方代表,沙特国王法赫德的侄子班达尔·宾·苏尔坦则这样回应道:“上天注定你们是世界上唯一的超级大国。”

  不过对于克林顿充当推销员的事,美国国内也引起了诸多争议。很多美国人认为,总统应该做一些比到处推销飞机更重要的事。当时《华盛顿邮报》的一位专栏作家甚至撰写了一篇评论批评这种“极端商业化”的行为。文章的结论是,这有损于总统的形象。

  然而,就像法国前总统密特朗把自己描述为空中客车最大的推销员一样,克林顿也乐于为波音公司做同样的事。因为他知道,再没有别的地方更能像波音公司这样象征美国的经济实力了。

  2002年版的《美国航空航天产业未来委员会最终报告》中这样写道,“航空航天工业是美国经济领域内一支强大的力量,是全球市场最有 竞争力的部门之一。航空航天工业产值占国内生产总值的15%以上,并提供1500万个以上高质量的就业岗位。 航空航天产品提供比其他任何生产部门都高的贸易盈余。”(王晋燕)

抄, boeing波音占了15%GDP

martin9war
April 20th, 2007, 03:19 AM
我最希望的就是飞机票价格能够降下来,看看欧洲美国的电影电视,动辄就是从纽约一下就飞到洛杉矶什么的,哪里像我们的,各种火车票贩子到处是。如果我们自己造飞机,造高速火车能够把价格降下来,当然支持。

Sen
April 21st, 2007, 09:57 AM
我最希望的就是飞机票价格能够降下来,看看欧洲美国的电影电视,动辄就是从纽约一下就飞到洛杉矶什么的,哪里像我们的,各种火车票贩子到处是。如果我们自己造飞机,造高速火车能够把价格降下来,当然支持。

航空公司的operating cost只有很少一部分是花在买飞机上。
其他成本包括人工,机场税,燃油等等,往往是这些因素导致票价居高不下。
从纽约一下飞机就到洛杉矶的也是商务旅客,不是平民百姓。

martin9war
April 22nd, 2007, 04:52 PM
我就不知道为什么中国的飞机票价格那么高,远远达不到欧美大众化的水平,虽然机场都修得富丽堂皇。火车这边挤爆了,各种票贩子层出不穷,飞机那边是航班因为人数过少而取消或者合并。也难怪,价格差距太大了,北京到上海的火车票,12个小时,硬座是一百多块钱,飞机票虽然只要两个小时,但是要一千四百多,差了十倍。

国内航班和国外航班的价格差也很大,从上海飞到韩国釜山,要花三四千,而飞到沈阳哈尔滨最多两千左右。哈尔滨比釜山不知道远哪里去了,不知道这个价格是怎么弄得。

lilylidou
June 20th, 2007, 06:56 AM
我几个同学就在西飞造飞机

snow is red
July 11th, 2007, 11:47 PM
Revolutionary 'Wing In Ground' plane revealed

Chinese scientists have reportedly developed a "Wing-In-Ground" (WIG) aircraft which can fly long distances just a few feet above the sea surface.

The plane can fly as low as half a metre off the surface, hitting speeds of up to 300 kmh and can carry up to 4 tonnes on takeoff.

"It's as safe as ships, although five or six times faster," associate professor Xu Zhengyu, vice-president of the research team at Tongji University in Shanghai, was quoted as saying.

"And it can carry much more weight than ordinary planes while costing half as much and using half as much fuel."

Wing In Ground effect refers to the reduction in drag experienced by an aircraft as it approaches a height approximately twice a wingspan's length off the ground or other level surface such as the sea.

Xu said the plane could be flown for military use and border control.

Tongji University planned to develop a 50-seat WIG by 2013, with 200 prototypes capable of carrying 200 to 400 tonnes scheduled for 2016 or 2017.

"Taking advantage of the aerodynamics of the ground effect, which adds extra lift when flying at very low altitudes, the aircraft can fly close to the water's surface," the China Daily said.

"This cuts back at least one third on fuel consumption, compared with standard planes of the same size, because the plane can benefit from air buoyancy."

The WIG has been listed as one of three types of aircraft given the green light in the general aviation field by the State Commission of Science Technology and Industry for National Defence, Xu was quoted as saying.

"However, the Civil Aviation Administration of China has yet to confirm aviation regulations at such low altitudes, which may become a problem," Xinhua said.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/science/wavehugging-plane-revealed/2007/07/11/1183833577495.html

Rachmaninov
July 12th, 2007, 11:00 AM
What about waves? It's very common to have waves higher than 5 feet.

big-dog
April 28th, 2008, 04:05 AM
http://news.wenxuecity.com/messages/200804/news-gb2312-582852.html

对空客、波音这两大民机寡头而言,在竞逐中国庞大市场的后续战役中,如何处理好与中国航空工业既合作又竞争的关系,将是它们无法回避的一道新课题——

初定“五一”前后挂牌成立的中国商用飞机有限公司(即俗称“大飞机公司”)将迈出中国大飞机漫长征程中的关键一步,这让全球第二大飞机制造商空中客车公司(下简称“空客”)对中国航空制造业长期保持的开放态度,开始变得微妙而复杂。

对于空客而言,过去的20年中,中国一直是它的大客户和供应商;此时,大飞机项目的启动实施意味着中国在其全球版图中的角色正在发生显著变化;未来,致力于成为世界航空工业第三极的中国还将成为空客的竞争对手。

4月24日,空客中国公司总裁博龙(LaurenceBarron)接受本报采访时表示,和竞争伙伴进行密切合作是一个很大的挑战。空客将考虑对在华策略进行调整,以应对新局面的出现。

稍早些时候,全球第一大飞机制造商美国波音公司表示,竞争对于航空业总是有益的。波音在中国战略不会改变,波音战略是在互惠原则基础上发展长期的业务关系。

对空客、波音这两大民机寡头而言,在竞逐中国庞大市场的后续战役中,如何处理好与中国航空工业既合作又竞争的关系,将是它们无法回避的一道新课题。




微妙态度
一直保持低调的中国商用飞机有限公司即将掀开神秘面纱。作为中国大飞机项目的实施主体,该公司目前已完成工商注册手续并在北京、上海组建了办事机构,初步计划在“五一”前后挂牌成立。

大飞机项目已经确定“以我为主,积极开展国际合作”的研发思路,但目前尚不清楚,该项目是否将与波音、空客展开合作。空客中国公司总裁博龙4月24日表示,空客已做好准备,愿意与中方的工业合作伙伴一起探讨在大飞机项目上进行合作的可能性。在保持开放姿态的同时,空客也没有放松警惕。博龙坦陈,如果中国生产的大飞机会成为空客的直接竞争者,则对空客来说,和竞争伙伴进行密切合作将是一个很大的挑战。

起家欧洲的空客于1985 年进入中国,借助技术和营销优势,其在中国市场正由“追赶者”向“领先者”迈进。目前,空客在中国大陆现役机队中的市场占有率已从1995年的7%提升至 38%。该公司客户事务首席运营官雷义表示,空客计划到2012年,在中国的市场份额达到50%。

2007年以前20余年中,在大型飞机研发上陷入沉寂的中国一直以客户和供应商的身份出现在空客面前。不过随着国产大飞机项目于去年启动,中国与空客的关系中,又增加了“竞争对手”这一敏感关系。

尤其是在中国决定对航空工业进行战略重组,以集中优势资源推进大飞机项目后,中国航空制造业与空客的竞争关系显得更为直接。本报获悉,有关部门已决定将中国航空工业第一集团公司旗下的中航商用飞机有限公司、中航第一飞机设计研究院上海分院和上海飞机制造厂并入大飞机公司,中国航空工业第一集团和第二集团的合并重组也计划于7月1日前取得初步进展。

形势变化让空客对中国航空制造业的态度变得微妙起来。在一位航空业老专家看来,中国计划进入的大型民机市场,目前已被波音和空客所垄断,它们显然不愿帮助中国成为未来与之抗衡的竞争者,无论是过去还是现在。

上世纪90年代,中国曾有意和波音、空客合作研制100座级的AE100飞机,但前者要求该飞机的座位必须是一排5座,不能与一排6座的波音737竞争;后者则提出了10多亿美元的技术转让费用报价,让中方难以接受,因为中方当时全部的研制经费也不过100亿元人民币。

AE100项目最终不了了之。

策略演变

形势的变化促使空客在行动上做出调整。空客中国公司总裁博龙对本报表示,为了应对变化,空客将在未来对中国市场的策略进行一定调整,包括商业模式、合作协议等,但目前回答这个问题还为时尚早。

在过去的20多年中,空客在中国坚持销售飞机和开展工业合作双轮驱动的发展模式,前者主要针对中国的航空公司,后者则面向以中国航空工业第一集团和第二集团为主体的航空制造企业。

与波音“同中国航空工业的合作,与在中国市场卖飞机是两回事”的态度不同,空客认为飞机销售与工业合作密不可分。博龙曾表示,“你不能指望中国购买数百架飞机而不在中国设厂,飞机制造商必须将更多的生产业务转移到中国以争取当地的订单。”

在业界看来,空客在华获得的新订单连续四年超过老对手波音公司,市场份额快速提升,与其近年积极同中国航空工业展开全方位、深层次的合作不无关系。空客中国一位高层表示,空客与中国航空制造业的合作,已从最初的转包生产、技术转让升级到设立总装厂、共同设计飞机的更高层次上,后两种合作在欧洲以外的国家还是第一次进行,足见空客对中国市场的高度重视。

2007年5月,空客A320系列飞机天津总装线项目开工,这是空客首次在欧洲之外设立总装线。据博龙介绍,今年8月,空客天津总装线将开始组装第一架飞机,预计到2015年将生产出约300架飞机。

2007 年11月,空客与国家发改委签署谅解备忘录,正式确认中国参与空中客车A350XWB宽体飞机5%工作份额。同日,空中客车公司与中国航空工业第二集团签署了关于建立合资复合材料制造中心的框架协议。根据协议,空中客车公司将与中航二集团下属哈飞航空工业股份有限公司共同组建合资制造中心,生产 A350XWB宽体飞机项目的复合材料零部件。

当本报请博龙为中国大飞机项目提供一些建议时,他笑了一声,随后表示,如果中国大飞机能在飞机设计、高效生产、售后支援三方面都做得很好,则有90%的概率能够成功。

big-dog
May 12th, 2008, 05:15 AM
China's jumbo passenger aircraft company established in Shanghai

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-05/11/content_8144727.htm

SHANGHAI, May 11 (Xinhua) -- China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company, which was a major part of the nation's large jet program, was officially inaugurated in Shanghai on Sunday.

Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang said at the inauguration ceremony that the large jet program was of significance to improve China's independent innovation capabilities and to meet the rapidly expanding civil aviation market at home.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-05/11/xin_572050511190150097616.jpg
Chinese Vice Premier Zhang Dejiang (L) and Shanghai Party Chief Yu Zhengsheng (R) unveil the plaque for China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company at the inauguration ceremony in Shanghai, east China, May 11, 2008. China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company, which was a major part of the nation's large jet program, was officially inaugurated in Shanghai on Sunday. (Xinhua Photo)

For the program, China should actively import sophisticated technologies, and at the same time, make breakthroughs in core technologies and achieve related independent intellectual property rights, according to Zhang.

The newly established company, named Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China Ltd. (CACC), will be responsible for researching, developing, manufacturing and marketing the homegrown large passenger aircraft.

Domestic airline companies, foreign suppliers, and representatives from international aviation producers including Boeing and Airbus attended the inauguration ceremony.

The CACC has a registered capital of 19 billion yuan (2.7 billion U.S. dollars). The State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission alone invested 6 billion yuan, becoming the biggest shareholder.

Shareholders of the new company also include China Aviation Industry Corporation I (AVIC I), the country's largest aircraft producer, and China Aviation Industry Corporation II (AVIC II).

Zhang Qingwei, minister of then State Commission of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense, was appointed the board chairman.

Jin Zhuanglong, the company's general manager, told Xinhua that "It is too early to set a timetable or make development strategy," adding that it will take a long time for the company to train talents and do research.

"Since large aircraft cannot be made in one or two days, CACC will pose no threat to large jet-makers like Boeing and Airbus," Jin said.

Jin added that China is to make full use of worldwide resources to develop the aircraft, and welcomes cooperation from foreign companies.

According to Jin, CACC's goals within the first few years include finishing delivery and maiden flight of ARJ21 aircraft, establishing an operating system and training talents.

Shanghai Aircraft Manufacturing Factory and the First Aircraft Institute of AVIC I, which participated in producing the country's first homegrown regional jet ARJ21-700, joined the newly established CACC.


ARJ21-700 rolled off the production line in Shanghai last December, and will start its maiden flight in upcoming Autumn.

Establishment of CACC was approved in February 2007 by the State Council, China's Cabinet. This was to make the country capable of building aircraft with a take-off weight of more than 100 tonnes, or planes with more than 150 seats.

Echoing Jin Zhuanglong, Jin Qiansheng, head of the management committee of Yanliang State High-tech Aviation Industry Base, said, "China's jumbo jet program will not impose a threat to Boeing and Airbus at least in the coming 20 years. Even if China built up its own production capacity of large jets, it would be able to meet quite a small part of the domestic demand. Boeing and Airbus will continue to claim the majority of the Chinese market."

Located in Xi'an, capital city of northwest China's Shaanxi Province, the Yanliang base is home to Xi'an Aircraft Industry (Group) Co., Ltd. and another 125 aviation businesses.

Jin Qiansheng told Xinhua that the Xi'an Aircraft industry company, which is under the AVIC I, will serve as a major big-part manufacturer of the large passenger jet project.

Jin Qianshen said China was willing to cooperate with foreign companies in developing large passenger jets.

Earlier media reports quoted Laurence Barron, president of Airbus China, as saying that the European aircraft producer hoped to know more about the (China's large jet) program, and had been prepared for probing into any possibility of cooperating with Chinese partners on the program.

According to Zhang Qingwei, chairman of the newly established Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China Ltd., in the process of CACC's formation, China obtained support and concern from such world big-names as Boeing, Airbus, GE, Honeywell and Bombardier.

Jin Qiansheng estimated that approximately 3,000 to 5,000 non-state businesses nationwide would be ushered into the large jet program. But it still takes time for such companies to get familiar with the aircraft industry, he told Xinhua.

snow is red
May 12th, 2008, 08:51 AM
PM underscores innovation in jumbo jet manufacture
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2008-05-12 08:26


BEIJING - China should unswervingly adhere to self-innovation in research and development of large aircraft, said Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao.

China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company was officially inaugurated in Shanghai on Sunday.

The company, named Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China Ltd (CACC), will be responsible for researching, developing, manufacturing and marketing the homegrown large passenger aircraft.

China should by all means conduct overall design and final assembly of large aircraft by itself. The research and production of engines, airborne equipment and material will also demand independent effort, said Wen.

"On one hand, we should notice that China is far behind the world advanced level in harddware, software and talent; on the other hand, China has certain conditions including economic strength, industrial foundation, demand from the market and opening up degree," said Wen.

The country should attach great importance to using world technical resources in an effective way, and introducing and adopting advanced technologies, said Wen.

Wen underscored the importance of mechanism innovation, saying that a good mechanism is a must for the implementation of the large aircraft project. Related sectors should correctly understand and deal with the relationship between mechanism innovation and existing technology, talent and enterprise.
He also called for efforts to optimize and integrate all kinds of technical resources and production factors to establish large aircraft project companies that are in line with modern enterprise mechanisms.

Management and operation innovation should be focused on research and development of products, marketing, after-sale service as well as fund-raising, said Wen.

"Innovation itself can not exist without the environment and condition of a market-oriented economy. The aviation enterprises should actively take part in market competition and deepen mechanism reform," said Wen.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-05/12/content_6676676.htm

snow is red
May 31st, 2008, 07:44 PM
Airbus hopes to join jumbo jet program
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2008-05-31 09:44


A top official from European aircraft maker Airbus said on Friday it was negotiating with its Chinese counterparts to join China's jumbo jet manufacturing program, which was officially inaugurated in Shanghai on May 11.

"I'm sure we will expand our business in China, although some factors might make China our competitor," said Laurence Barron, Airbus China president, in an exclusive interview with Xinhua on Friday at the 18th Asian Corporate Conference of Asia Society.

"Not a single country could make a plane on its own. The generator, instruments and even the oil used by Airbus all come from different partners. China need such support."

China's first ever jumbo passenger aircraft company, named Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China Ltd.(CACC), will be responsible for researching, developing, manufacturing and marketing the homegrown large passenger aircraft.

The CACC has a registered capital of 19 billion yuan ($2.7 billion). The State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission alone invested 6 billion yuan, becoming the biggest shareholder.

CACC's goals within the first few years include finishing the delivery and maiden flight of the ARJ21 aircraft, establishing an operating system and training talent.

Barron thought China's road to producing jumbo jets was long and difficult. "It took Airbus 40 years to achieve its current status. China has a long way to go," he said.

"Just willingness and capital are not enough," he added.

A product competitive to Airbus and Boeing, a global marketing and business network are necessities for the Chinese jumbo jet business to "take off," he said.

For years, Airbus and Boeing have been competing to play a dominant role in China, one of the fastest growing aviation market in the world.

Airbus began selling planes in China in 1985. The Chinese mainland now has more than 300 Airbus planes. In the coming years, Airbus will deliver 370 more planes to China based on current orders. It plans to have a 50 percent share in the Chinese market by 2011.

China signed an agreement worth $17.4 billion during French President Nicolas Sarkozy's visit to Beijing in November. This involved the purchase of 160 planes from French company Airbus, according to Airbus China.

Airbus also has an assembly line in Tianjin, the first for Airbus outside Europe. The assembly of the first plane is expected to initiate in August. It planned to deliver 300 A320 planes from the assembly line by 2016 to satisfy China's demand.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008-05/31/content_6726027.htm

Nothing is free in this world, and since Airbus offers help , I am starting to suspect that they want something in return . What do you think ?

AlexS2000
June 1st, 2008, 12:08 AM
Airbus hopes to join jumbo jet program
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2008-05-31 09:44


deleted to make it short and sweet

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008-05/31/content_6726027.htm

Nothing is free in this world, and since Airbus offers help , I am starting to suspect that they want something in return . What do you think ?

I just think that it is a preemptive strike on a future competitor.
By becoming a partner it can influence the Chinese development from the outset and kill a competitor from the very beginning.
They could mislead or delay any project since they are the "expert" in building large plane. I think that China should go alone most of the time and get consulting help from Ukraine Antonov and even from Brazil Embraer.
They could get a more equal type of partnership. If one country one to become a Boeing or Airbus competitor, then you can not rely on your competition to make you stronger.
I guess the Chinese government should really think seriously about this type of proposal!

big-dog
June 6th, 2008, 10:28 AM
China mainland's first 100-seat regional aircraft in operation

http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90776/90884/6426012.html

The first E190 plane, from the Hainan Airlines Group's Grand China Express Airlines, was put into operation on the 5th. This is China's first 100-seat regional aircraft in operation, according to a report by Xinhua Net.

Chairman of Grand China Express Airlines Yu Wenyong said that the E190 aircraft is an advanced, high-performance jet with 106 seats. As a regional aircraft, it is a low-cost, highly efficient choice; and performs very well in safety, comfort and other aspects.

By People's Daily Online

big-dog
June 30th, 2008, 04:16 AM
China unveils new turboprop regional aircraft

http://chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-06/29/content_6803758.htm


http://i2.sinaimg.cn/jc/s/2008-06-27/U2143P27T1D507445F3DT20080627194859.jpg
XI'AN -- The first China-made regional aircraft Modem Ark (MA)600 was completed on Sunday, marking a milestone in China's drive to be one of the world's leading providers of turboprop regional aircraft.

The research and development of the 70-seat MA700 was also underway, head of the preparation group for the China Aviation Industry Group Corporation Lin Zuomin announced at the Xi'an Aircraft Industry(Group) Company Ltd.

The 60-seat MA600, an improved version of the MA60, was 300 kilograms lighter, making it 40 percent more fuel efficient than turbofan-powered aircraft, said president of the Xi'an company Meng Xiangkai.

Improvements were also made in the power system, cabin design and flight capacities.
After five years, China would be able to deliver its own turbo-prop regional jet series of the MA60, MA600, MA700 catered to different users, said Lin.

The country would strive for a bigger market share comparable to its rivals, Canada's Bombardier and France's ATR. he said.

The MA600 was scheduled to make its maiden flight in September, and early promotion activities had attracted interest from many carriers. The main marketing drive would begin next year 2009.

Beijing Youth Daily has reported that 10 to 15 MA600s would be manufactured in the next two years. Up to 30 a year could be made according to market demand. Mass production would start in late 2009.

Company officials could give no information on the cost of the aircraft.

The China Aerospace Industry Research Center forecast 5,300 to 5,500 regional aircraft would be needed in the next 20 years, of which 1,900 would be turboprop aircraft.

Turbo propeller regional aircraft are commonly used on short and medium range flights.

Nearly half of the regional jets flying in Europe and North America are turbo-propelled. The demand for the relatively environment-friendly aircraft is expected to rise with global oil prices.

Regional aircraft account for just 12 percent of China's aircraft, and many large jets are flying regional routes, causing a waste of resources.

Experts say turbo propelled regional aircraft are the most economical and energy-efficient on short and medium range flights, laying the market foundation for the MA series.

Chen Fusheng, an official with the China Aviation Industry Corporation I (AVIC I) said the MA700 would be aimed at markets in developed countries.

It would be designed to meet demand for the next 20 years, Chen said.

Powered by the Pratt and Whitney PW-127J turboprop engines, MA60 is China's first regional plane designed and produced in line with international standards.

The MA60, with a maximum speed of 514 km/h and a range of 2,450 km or four hours, was first tested in 1993 and approved in June 2000 for commuter services as its primary role.

It has received 122 orders, of which 15 have been delivered to Africa, with Zimbabwe and Zambia among the buyers.

The ARJ21 Xiang Feng, in which AVIC I holds all the intellectual property rights, is set to debut in September.

Rahmani
June 30th, 2008, 04:38 PM
In 10 years, China is really going to be a major player in Airplanes!

snow is red
June 30th, 2008, 07:54 PM
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20080630/0013729e4abe09d2d55f4d.jpg

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60-seat Modem Ark (MA)600, the first China-made regional aircraft, is unveiled in Xi'an, Shaanxi Province June 29, 2008, marking a milestone in China's drive to be one of the world's leading providers of turboprop regional aircraft.

henrypan123
July 17th, 2008, 05:38 AM
What about ARJ-12?

snow is red
July 17th, 2008, 02:16 PM
What about ARJ-12?

ARJ 12 ? Never heard of that.

Or you mean ARJ 21 ?

Its test flight is due in October, It was supposed to be in March but it was postponed due to delayed parts delivery.

snow is red
July 17th, 2008, 02:19 PM
China's Aerospace Industry: For Now More Friend Than Foe

July 14,2008

The Chinese aerospace industry is increasingly a key partner of the world’s top airplane makers. On the eve of the Farnborough world air show, Canadian-based Bombardier launched a new family of short-haul commercial jets – the CSeries - which Shenyang Aircraft Company helps to develop and for which it supplies the fuselage, centre wing box and doors, making it China’s biggest engagement in a western commercial jet program.

The cooperation between the two companies has covered more than 20 years. Prior to the CSeries, Shenyang Aircraft made parts for Bombardier's Q100, Q200, Q300 and Q400 models, as the world’s third-largest commercial aircraft marker has moved some production to low cost countries. This partnership benefits China’s aerospace industry in its search for the technical know-how to build its own commercial jets.

During the 2007 Paris Air Show, the China Aviation Industry Corporation (AVIC 1), the parent company of Shenyang Aircraft, with plants in Chengdu, Xi’an and Shanghai, signed a deal with Bombardier in a risk and revenue sharing partnership to develop the ARJ21-900, a Chinese 105 seat regional jet.

In this far-reaching cooperative jet development deal, Bombardier would invest $100m, support the marketing of the ARJ21-900 to regional airlines in world markets and recoup through royalties from the sales of the jet. AVIC 1 would invest $400m for research and development and the construction of production facilities and equipment to produce the fuselage for Bombardier’s CSeries, 110-130 seat jets.

In a bid to be world’s top structural supplier in the aerospace industry, AVIC 1, at the same show, announced its plan to acquire six Airbus plants in the UK, France and Germany. The deal could spur further collaboration between these two companies, which sees AVIC 1 building an assembly plant in China for the A320 family of single-aisle aircraft, reducing production costs for the European airplane maker.

While Western airplane makers are increasingly using China as an outsource for production of components and parts, they do not like the idea of the apprentice becoming their competitor. “We learn a lot from our partners, but not core technology”, said one inside source of Shenyang Aircraft to Chinastakes.com.

In fact, China’s aerospace industry is increasingly seen as a threat by the Western players, especially as it has ambitions to build its own large jet, a 150-seat passenger aircraft. However, given the immense technological task China faces, and that other nations better equipped technologically such as Japan and Canada have failed in large jet R&D, analysts are conservative about China’s chances for success any time soon.

But in contrast with the limited domestic markets in Canada and Japan, China’s massive domestic demand, expected to grow by up to 3,700 new airplanes over the next 20 years, could serve as the impetus to kick-start the project and keep it going.

Globalization creates a two-lane path for developing countries to learn new technology and for advanced countries to save on production costs. But in the duopolized aerospace industry where Boeing and Airbus can seal off their core technology, China has many mountains to climb.

Industry experts expect China’s large airplane research and development will take at least 15 to 20 years. For that time at least, China will have to remain more a partner than rival for the Western giants.

http://www.chinastakes.com/story.aspx?id=513

snow is red
July 17th, 2008, 02:22 PM
GE in Talks to Supply Engine for Large Chinese Passenger Jet

June 24 (Bloomberg) -- General Electric Co., the world's biggest jet-engine maker, is in talks to supply engines for China's planned 150-seat jetliner.

Discussions have been held with the Chinese government about a possible participation in the project, GE Vice Chairman John Rice said in an interview in Singapore today. GE is awaiting specifications of the plane to be able to offer a suitable engine, he said.

``They know we're interested,'' Rice said. ``We know they want more efficient and less noise and emissions. Typically they will be looking for an engine that is 15 to 20 percent better than the ones available today.''

China's government last month formed China Commercial Aircraft Co. to lead the development of the large jetliner. Shareholders of the new company include state-owned plane makers China Aviation Industry Corp. I and smaller rival China Aviation Industry Corp. II. The plane will have its first flight by 2020, according to government plans.

Fairfield, Connecticut-based GE supplies engines for ARJ21, the 90-seat regional jet under development by China Aviation Industry Corp. I. The plane is scheduled to make its first test flight in September or October this year.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=alAliz9uXvN0&refer=asia

snow is red
November 21st, 2008, 02:07 AM
China develops new regional aircraft for high-end int'l market

2008-11-21


SHANGHAI, Nov. 21 (Xinhua) -- China has started developing a new turbo-propelled regional aircraft Modern Ark 700 (MA 700) for the high-end international market, announced an executive of China's leading aircraft manufacturer on Wednesday.

This new generation, updated from the MA 600, will be more energy-efficient and fit for high altitude aviation, said Geng Ruoguang, vice general manager of China Aviation Industry Corporation I (AVIC I).

The 70-seat MA 700 regional aircraft, developed by Xi'an Aircraft Industry Company (XAC) of AVIC I, is expected to be marketable in 2014, Geng told a forum on international commercial aircraft.

"MA 700 targets high-end customers in the international market. We hope it will receive the airworthiness certification from the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) of the United States," Geng said.

The 60-seat MA600, also developed by XAC, launched its maiden flight in October in Tianjin and has received 12 orders. It would be delivered to clients from the second half of 2009..

Experts say turboprop regional aircraft are the most economical and energy-efficient on short and medium range flights, which lay the market foundation for the MA series.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/21/content_10389355.htm

snow is red
November 22nd, 2008, 04:24 PM
First made-in-China Airbus assembled

2008-11-21

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20081121/00221917dead0a90de5f0c.jpg
An Airbus A320 aircraft goes through the final assembly line in Tianjin, North China, November 20, 2008. The assembly work of the first China-made Airbus A320 was completed on Thursday


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http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-11/21/content_7229723.htm

snow is red
November 26th, 2008, 11:56 PM
China to fly high in global aircraft market

2008-11-27


OVER more than 40 years, the Chinese civil aviation manufacturing industry has gone from simulated manufacturing to independent development.

A batch of civil aircraft has been developed, including large and medium turboprop and turbofan aircraft and the first regional commercial jet, the ARJ21, as China catches up with the rest of the world in technical, complex, high-value industries.

Recently, the country merged its two largest aircraft makers to form the Aviation Industry Corp of China in a bid to become a world-class aircraft maker with a line-up of world-beating aviation products including a 150-seat jumbo jet.

The production of jumbo aircraft is strategically significant for the country, as it would enhance its reputation on the global market.

The aim is to reduce China's reliance on overseas suppliers. All facets of the process - design, sourcing materials and production - will be done in China.

Commercial aircraft

A jumbo aircraft is defined as a plane with more than 150 seats or a payload of more than 100 tons. At present, only the United States, Russia, France, Germany, Britain and Spain have the capability to build such aircraft, with Boeing and Airbus taking the lion's share of sales on the international market.

Guangdong Changsheng Aircraft Design Co Ltd, the first Chinese private enterprise engaged in the design of large commercial aircraft, unveiled its CS series designs.

Changsheng believes large commercial aircraft with 150 to 300 seats will be in demand over the next 20 years.

It has launched two projects based on different seat categories.

The CS2000 will have 200 to 300 seats in a twin-aisle wide-bodied aircraft, and the CS2010 series will have a single aisle and 150 to 200 seats.

The two series have large aspect ratio, middle sweep angle, advanced super-critical wings and will be powered by two wing-mounted, new generation turbofan engines.


http://www.shanghaidaily.com/NewsImage/2008/2008-11/2008-11-27/20081127_382192_01.jpg

The seating capacity for the CS2000 can also be varied from 160 to 340 depending on different cabin layouts. The range capability of the series will be suitable for China's domestic routes and intercontinental routes, according to Changsheng.

The CS2010 series will be suitable for travel within China and to neighboring regions and shorter transoceanic routes.

The company's general manager, Zhou Jisheng, was deputy chief designer for ARJ21 regional aircraft program. The ARJ21 project, which dates back to early 2005, has been seen as the precursor to China building its own jumbo jets.

The entire development has cost 6 billion yuan (US$878 million).

The first ARJ21-700 jet, powered by a turbofan engine, can carry 90 passengers and has a maximum range of 2,000 nautical miles.

Maiden flight

The jet was rolled out in December 2007 and is due to make its maiden flight in Shanghai this month and enter service next year.

All inspections of the aircraft have been completed, and procedures testing the dynamics of the aircraft have begun. After the first test flight, the Commercial Aircraft Corp of China Ltd, maker of the ARJ21, will arrange four ARJ21 jets for further test flying to obtain airworthiness certificates in China and in the US to cater to the international market.

There will be an increasing demand for jets in China, according to an annual market forecasting report on the Chinese commercial airplane market released by the Aviation Industry Corp of China. From 2008 to 2027, Chinese airlines will need to add 3,815 commercial passenger airplanes of various types to their fleets - 2,822 jumbo jets and 993 regional jets.

The Commercial Aircraft Corp of China Ltd has already received 208 orders for ARJ21 jets and the company is working on a 100-seat version of the ARJ21 series, a business jet model and a freighter.

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?id=382192&type=Business&page=1

big-dog
November 28th, 2008, 01:27 PM
China's first home-made regional jet completes maiden flight


www.chinaview.cn 2008-11-28

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/28/xin_472110528195840680962.jpg
China's first homegrown regional jet ARJ21-700 flies in Shanghai, east China, Nov. 28, 2008. The ARJ21 (Advanced Regional Jet for the 21st Century), which was developed independently by China, completed its maiden flight on Friday. The 90-seat ARJ21-700 jet, powered by a turbofan engine and rolled off the production line in 2007, has a maximum flight range of 3,700 kilometers and a maximum altitude of 11,900 meters. (Xinhua Photo)

SHANGHAI, Nov. 28 (Xinhua) -- China's first homegrown regional jet, an ARJ21-700, completed its maiden flight Friday in Shanghai, the Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China Ltd. (COMAC) said.

The maiden flight began at 12:23 p.m. and lasted for about an hour at Shanghai Aircraft Manufacturing Factory, where the jet rolled out the general assembly line at the end of last year.

"The jet was normal and the flight was smooth," said Zhao Peng, one of the three pilots aboard the jet, at the end of the maiden flight.

The white 90-seat ARJ21-700 jet with three curved blue stripes on the fuselage, named "Xiang Feng" or "Flying Phoenix", is about 33 meters long and 27 meters in wing span.

Its maximum flight range is 3,700 kilometers and maximum altitude, 11,900 meters, said COMAC's General Manager Jin Zhuanglong.

But the jet flew at only 900 meters during the maiden flight.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/28/xin_4721105281958562172543.jpg
China's first homegrown regional jet ARJ21-700 flies in Shanghai, east China, Nov. 28, 2008. The ARJ21 (Advanced Regional Jet for the 21st Century), which was developed independently by China, completed its maiden flight on Friday. The 90-seat ARJ21-700 jet, powered by a turbofan engine and rolled off the production line in 2007, has a maximum flight range of 3,700 kilometers and a maximum altitude of 11,900 meters. (Xinhua Photo)

Delivery of the aircraft would begin in less than 18 months, after a series of trial flights and the award of airworthiness certificate, said Hu Haiyin, Party secretary of COMAC.

Hu said the China has rolled out six ARJ21 aircraft so far, all of which are undergoing flight tests.

He said the country is currently capable of producing 20 ARJ21 jets a year.

The ARJ21 (Advanced Regional Jet for the 21st Century) was developed independently by China. It was also the first Chinese aircraft to be sold to Europe and America.

A total of 208 ARJ21-700s have been ordered so far, including 25 by GE Commercial Aviation Services of the United States.

The jet sells for about 27 million U.S. dollars, compared with 30 million U.S. dollars for a 90-seat Bombardier jet.

China Aviation Industry Corporation, the parent company of COMAC, predicts that worldwide carriers will need about 6,600 regional aircraft in the coming 20 years, 70 percent of which will be jets.

"With less fuel consumption and longer flight hours, the ARJ21 will reduce air fares by 8 to 10 percent for Chinese airlines, most of whom currently use large aircraft above 140 seats on short and medium routes," said COMAC's General Manager Jin Zhuanglong.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-11/28/xin_1421105282000093275224.jpg
China's first homegrown regional jet ARJ21-700 prepares to take off in Shanghai, east China, Nov. 28, 2008. The ARJ21 (Advanced Regional Jet for the 21st Century), which was developed independently by China, completed its maiden flight on Friday. The 90-seat ARJ21-700 jet, powered by a turbofan engine and rolled off the production line in 2007, has a maximum flight range of 3,700 kilometers and a maximum altitude of 11,900 meters. (Xinhua Photo)

(xinhuanet.com)

snow is red
November 28th, 2008, 04:59 PM
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20081128/00221917dead0a9a2b0820.jpg
China's first homegrown regional jet ARJ21-700 is seen in this picture taken before it takes its maiden flight in Shanghai, East China, November 28, 2008. The maiden flight began at 12:23 p.m. and lasted for about an hour at Shanghai Aircraft Manufacturing Factory, where the jet rolled out the general assembly line at the end of last year


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http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20081128/00221917dead0a9a300d24.jpg
China's first homegrown regional jet ARJ21-700 lands on the airport after it completes its maiden flight in Shanghai, East China, November 28, 2008. The maiden flight began at 12:23 p.m. and lasted for about an hour at Shanghai Aircraft Manufacturing Factory, where the jet rolled out the general assembly line at the end of last year.

velut arbor aevo
November 30th, 2008, 05:55 AM
still lots of work left before it can impact the aviation industry. But first, try to compete with Bombardier and Embraer.

urheimait
November 30th, 2008, 10:01 PM
Chinese aviation industry has a very long way to compete with Airbus and Boeing, at least at the moment. What do you think will be the position of China΄s aviation industry the next decades?

snow is red
March 3rd, 2010, 11:48 PM
China works on C919 jumbo jet design

2010-03-03

Commercial Aircraft Corp of China Ltd (COMAC), in charge of the C919 passenger airplane program, announced on Tuesday that its major task this year would be the preliminary design of the jumbo jets, the China News Agency reported.

The work would include a wind tunnel experiment with applied loads, draft design of the aircraft's cockpit model as well as the signing of a series of memorandums of understanding with systems suppliers.

Shanghai-based COMAC, established in May 2008 with 19 billion yuan ($2.9 billion) registered capital, aims to take on Boeing and Airbus in China's aviation market with the highly anticipated homegrown passenger aircraft.

The airplane manufacturer unveiled a model of the narrow-body C919 plane at the Asia Aerospace Expo in Hong Kong in September. The 150-seat jumbo jet is expected to take off in 2014 and enter service in 2016.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-03/03/content_9532832.htm

foxmulder
March 4th, 2010, 04:16 AM
C919 will be interesting. It will be approximately same size with 737 and A320 hence the most competitive class. We will see.

Silly_Walks
November 8th, 2010, 03:44 AM
Revolutionary 'Wing In Ground' plane revealed

Chinese scientists have reportedly developed a "Wing-In-Ground" (WIG) aircraft which can fly long distances just a few feet above the sea surface.


Yes, revolutionary. Except it was already around in Scandinavia before WW2 and in the 1960s mainly in Soviet Russia (ekranoplan).
:ohno:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_vehicle

Heludin
October 4th, 2012, 08:29 PM
Late 2012 whatever happened to the plane? Sukhoi went belly up for the moment until everything gets back to normal with the superjet, is this plane's fate the same? Any news, anyone?