low density(abt delhi),wow.. uhu uhu :eek2:

Low density relative to Mumbai ;)

Source: http://20twentytwo.blogspot.com/

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http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2070/28925187.jpg

Hindustan Times

^ ^ Above said bridge will cost only 16 cr and will be finished in 4 months?? seems unrealistic... lets see how correct this report is..

The central supporting pulon is 39 meteres high - that about a 12 stories building. The carraigeway is 19 mtrs - a 6 storied building. All this by April 2010? Folks who commute down this way - have you noticed any signs of activity?

The foundation for pillars on both sides of WEH, is going for abt a year (this spot had activity throughout last year). It is possible in 4 months, but they have to speed up things.

After a long time, there are some activities in Andheri W. Almost 90% pillars completed between Versova and Navrang cinema

Yes, if they speed up things, 175 meters is achievable in 4 months. In a recent bridge construction here, they constructed around 125-meter bridge (or may be more) in around 5 weeks (not counting the concreting the road). It was amazingly fast pace and I was surprised to see that.

^^ Cost escalation will be there in underground lines also because of delays. The most delayed line (line 3) is an underground one. It's high cost is delaying it which is further increase its costs. Even line 1 would have got delayed like that if there was underground vs elevated issue there. We have a choice - build less but build underground or build twice but elevated. I'll prefer second option.

the cost escalation in line 3 is due to lack of will from the government, not due to delays during construction

every single elevated line will have multiple delays due to congested roads, structures in the way and underground utilities

overall the u/g option might end up being cheaper

the cost escalation in line 3 is due to lack of will from the government, not due to delays during construction

every single elevated line will have multiple delays due to congested roads, structures in the way and underground utilities

overall the u/g option might end up being cheaper

Ok , lets forget the u/c phase for a bit. Once a metro network is built and functioning , I don't think an "All Underground" system offers any great advantage vis-a-vis a majority elevated one.

For one , I reckon future maintanence of an all u/g metro will be more expensive than an elevated line.

Elevated lines have far more utlity in days of heavy rainfall and/or Flooding.

Mumbai is also no New York or London where elevated lines will spoil the "aesthtics" of the city , if the GoM was so bothered about aesthatics , they would have cleared the vast swathes of slums long back.

Overall, the current idea of mixed u/g and elevated is good. The metro should surely go u/f in areas of extremly high density.

expansion of new lines in underground is easier. overground we have multiple infra in the air, like existing lines, buildings, flyovers, skywalks, monorail, etc.

to make new lines and connections overground will be immensely challenging and almost certainly will involve some amount of compromise on alignments

I agree with BB boy.

Underground lines are better. Cost much more. But IMO less of the PIL's by people

I personally think the colaba to bandra line will be like another MTHL

Elevated lines have far more utlity in days of heavy rainfall and/or Flooding.


Modern underground systems are immune to rainfall and flooding. In Delhi, though the rainfall is less than Mumbai but the roads get flooded and underground lines never.

expansion of new lines in underground is easier. overground we have multiple infra in the air, like existing lines, buildings, flyovers, skywalks, monorail, etc.

to make new lines and connections overground will be immensely challenging and almost certainly will involve some amount of compromise on alignments

Exactly. Overground metro for lines 2 or 3 is already inviting opposition from our public. Then why not just go underground and avoid delays.

Modern underground systems are immune to rainfall and flooding. In Delhi, though the rainfall is less than Mumbai but the roads get flooded and underground lines never.
plus elevated one adds to city's beauty

Honestly, I don't see what's wrong with elevated train corridors.

1)They're cheaper to build (it would be better to build two elevated lines than build one underground for the same price)
2) elevated lines are not prone to flooding...this is BEST for Mumbai (where trains, buses and taxis stop running when it rains for a couple hours)
3)You dont have to worry about underground utilities & cables when building them (we all know about the long delays b/c of messy underground utilities).
4) Many of the world's best metros have elevated lines. NYC, London, Delhi, etc. I think Mumbai should also have a combination of u/g and elevated.
5) Elevated lines are perfectly okay for suburban areas. Underground is best for "downtown"

Most of the points are invalid for Mumbai

1) Not as much as it appears on paper. Line 1 already has 40% escalation. Not because of cost escalation of materials /labour, but because of changes in design where they could not acquire land. Underground would not have this problem.
2) Abhishek has already explained this. Delhi underground is doing well.
3) I believe, it is a trouble for elevated lines. Usually, the utilities are within 10 feet beneath the ground. Many of the utility services were disrupted in Andheri during construction (while digging) of Line 1. I believe underground tunnels will be deep enough to bypass these utililties. 'm not very sure though.
4 & 5) Combination is good. Density, land acquisition cost and road width are deciding factors.But most of Mumbai is dense. The density of population in Colaba, Andheri, Malad and Kurla are almost the same. May be they can go elevated in far suburbs - Kandivli /Kanjurmarg upwards

Above all, elevated lines cause lot of inconvenience during construction period. Indirect social and economical costs (fuel etc) are high. Many offices shifted from Andheri E because of construction. In this case, most of the jobs are shifted within Mumbai or India. But in case of Line 3 (and parts of Line 2), there are chances of jobs moving out of India.

Elevated metro being beautiful is very subjective. IMO, it really spoils the looks of the city, especially if the roads are narrow.

Source: http://20twentytwo.blogspot.com/

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5950/vagr.jpg
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/5930/vag1.jpg


Looks like the Structural Engineers felt the section is not adequate and went for a change in the design i.e using concrete encased I section girders,to have greater bending moment resistance,by increasing the moment of inertia about horizontal axis................:lol:

Most of the points are invalid for Mumbai

1) Not as much as it appears on paper. Line 1 already has 40% escalation. Not because of cost escalation of materials /labour, but because of changes in design where they could not acquire land. Underground would not have this problem.



1)Cost escalation is present in every project...just because a project is underground doesnt mean there won't be cost escalation...in fact, underground systems cost a lot more so there will be huge delays in acquiring money (as was the case with BWSL)


Most of the points are invalid for Mumbai
2) Abhishek has already explained this. Delhi underground is doing well.


2) Delhi receives far less rainfall than Mumbai...and has a better drainage infrastructure...and Delhi never floods since Delhi is not close to an ocean.
Mumbai floods very easily....

Mumbai has many subways (underground walkways)...and these always flood when it rains...an underground train system would flood easily given Mumbai's conditions.


Most of the points are invalid for Mumbai
3) I believe, it is a trouble for elevated lines. Usually, the utilities are within 10 feet beneath the ground. Many of the utility services were disrupted in Andheri during construction (while digging) of Line 1. I believe underground tunnels will be deep enough to bypass these utililties. 'm not very sure though.


3) Same applies for underground metros going thru historic cores (like downtown Mumbai). There will be a lot of delays for construction because underground metros affect not just utilities, but building foundations as well. for every historic building that the Metro passes, MMRDA would have to get a certification. (DMRC had to do that in Delhi too)


Most of the points are invalid for Mumbai
Above all, elevated lines cause lot of inconvenience during construction period. Indirect social and economical costs (fuel etc) are high. Many offices shifted from Andheri E because of construction. In this case, most of the jobs are shifted within Mumbai or India. But in case of Line 3 (and parts of Line 2), there are chances of jobs moving out of India.


I HIGHLY doubt any businesses moved away from Mumbai just because of Metro construction.

In fact, businesses usually flocks towards infrastructure. Infrastructure ALWAYS boosts the economy.

I don't understand why do people relate floods to underground Metro? I mean there are tunnels around the world that are built under the sea. Secondly, if this is a problem, then I am sure Engineering can find a way out. The number 1 point that would cause delay of the second line is the opposition from the people due to the fact that they don't want a train passing amidst their homes.

Also there are a number of bridges, FOBs, ROBs, "useless skywalks", Monorails being built throughout the city. Having an over ground metro would mean making the metro pass over these infrastructures. This would mean a lot of changes in alignment every now and then, getting permission from the railways, MMRDA, MSRDC which would mean delays.

While money release sure affected BWSL and caused delay, if the government is willing, this can be sorted out by releasing money on time and making sure that the work on the metro is not affected.

the metro junction subway does not flood in monsoons, i doubt a metro network would

there are many ways to make sure of that

Looks like the Structural Engineers felt the section is not adequate and went for a change in the design i.e using concrete encased I section girders,to have greater bending moment resistance,by increasing the moment of inertia about horizontal axis................:lol:

I-structure with hollow inside always works better in compressive force upon it...just like rail I-sections...neways it is weird that the most basic design is changed after everything is at post planning stage...so wat they are plannin next...:lol:

Any updates on the Phase-1 Line 2 (Mankhurd-Charkop) wrt the JVPD Elevated/Underground Issue ? They have called for consultants for the same, but this issue seems to heading towards the courts (or might be in )!

I-structure with hollow inside always works better in compressive force upon it...just like rail I-sections...neways it is weird that the most basic design is changed after everything is at post planning stage...so wat they are plannin next...:lol:

Hopefully they see to it that the I sections adopted are strong against local buckling else they will come up with some shit again................:nuts:

true that engineering can find a way out of the flooding problem. but why face the problem in the first place when it can be avoided by going elevated. no system work as planned in India (and none whatsoever in mumbai) so whoever thinks that engineering will take care of flooding in mumbai is simply deluding himself.

besides it is not unexpected that rains become more erratic in future ( i mean climate science is not exact, but no one can deny that monsoons are becoming less predictable) ... who knows what kind of climate change is in store for mumbai ... having elevated systems is like having a foolproof insurance when nothing in the city is working. when you need it, it will be the only thing working in a city where stoppages are a part of life. think of the life that can be saved if any disaster strikes. it will be the ultimate backup for mumbai. it is for this reason alone that i think having a elevated system is not only worthwhile but highly desirable. and the fact that it costs less is a manna from haven.

do not worry about asthetics ... after coping with locals anything will look better. and metro systems do look very sleek so it will only enhance the looks.

I don't understand why do people relate floods to underground Metro?



When Mumbai gets flooded with more than 3 feet of water, how will you keep the underground metro from getting flooded?

Plus, after each flooding, the metro system would have to be stopped in order to check damages from flooding.

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Any ideas on how this underground metro would stay dry when the rest of the city gets flooded? Just wondering if there are any proven technologies. I doubt it since most cities with u/g metro do not have usual flooding problems

Just curious, does Kolkata underground get flooded during rains? I have seen the roads getting flooded in Kolkata in rains.

And Chennai is going underground for atleast 20 kms. Chennai gets heavy rains during Oct-Dec.

When Mumbai gets flooded with more than 3 feet of water, how will you keep the underground metro from getting flooded?

Plus, after each flooding, the metro system would have to be stopped in order to check damages from flooding.


Any ideas on how this underground metro would stay dry when the rest of the city gets flooded? Just wondering if there are any proven technologies. I doubt it since most cities with u/g metro do not have usual flooding problems

First of all tell me, how would water enter the underground metro?

hey guys new to the forum here....pretty good one at that .Looks like evryone here is pretty pissed at the slack pace of development thats is taking placein case of the metro..Anyways i emailed the reliance guys for fun sake abt the slow pace and are they sure of completing it before 2010 deadline.I got a reply asking for date to fix an appointment with their pr guy who will explain to me all the details abt the project....lol I wasnt expecting that but anyhow wanted to know if anybody had any queries so that i can shoot off to this pr guy in case I decide to meet him

Singapore has a metro and gets more rain than Mumbai right?

they have stations underground as well.

Only issue is Mumbai has been formed from reclaiming land. I am not an expert but does that make a difference?

>> First of all tell me, how would water enter the underground metro?

the same way they enter our subways ... and in case you have seen the churchgate subway after just a slight drizzle, you will know what i am talking about. there are ugly pools of water and hot humid air all around ... add the melee of shopkeepers / sandwich-wallahs / vada-pav-wallahs / fake-deoderant-sellers / mosquito-zapper-seller and you do not need to die to know what hell is. you will become thankful that your glasses becomes foggy so that you do not have to see it.

PS : I like the sandwich very much though. and even more than that the egg-bhurjee that is sold just outside the subway after 8 PM. Oh how much I miss mumbai !!!

>> First of all tell me, how would water enter the underground metro?

the same way they enter our subways ... and in case you have seen the churchgate subway after just a slight drizzle, you will know what i am talking about.

Churchgate subway gets flooded in light drizzle but underground stations of Delhi don't even have a single drop of water inside (besides some of the wetness that comes with people's wet footwear) even in a very heavy rainfall. That means there is a difference between a subway and a metro and that better techniques are used in metro to keep them safe from water. Flooding is actually a non-issue, the main trouble is more than double expenditure in case of underground as compared to elevated.

and what would these different techniques be (you hv any idea?) , also the fact that Delhi never has and never will witness the level of sustained rainfall which mumbai sees for days together sometimes.

Another thing would be the soil quality and how would level of moisture effect the underground metro (if at all)

and what would these different techniques be (you hv any idea?) , also the fact that Delhi never has and never will witness the level of sustained rainfall which mumbai sees for days together sometimes.

Another thing would be the soil quality and how would level of moisture effect the underground metro (if at all)

It depend on the soil type if mumbi has a clayey soil then with mositure it tend s to swell,engineers would have taken care of that they design for the most critical soil pressure.

The overburden soil pressure of saturated soil will be the critical design load for the tunnel casing/shell.

and what would these different techniques be (you hv any idea?) , also the fact that Delhi never has and never will witness the level of sustained rainfall which mumbai sees for days together sometimes.

Another thing would be the soil quality and how would level of moisture effect the underground metro (if at all)

I don't have any ideas about techniques. Regarding difference in rainfall, there are more rainy days in Mumbai but it does not always rain for 7 consecutive days in Mumbai. If suppose on a "normal" rainy day, it rains 50 mm in Mumbai in 3 hours, then in Delhi also the figure will be close. Water accumulated will be equal in both cities during such a typical rainy day.

The difference is that it will rain again next day in Mumbai but may not, in case of Delhi for next 3 days. So, next shower mostly will happen after most of the water of previous shower has dried up. So, net level of water on the streets will not keep on rising. If DMRC can avoid any flooding in underground network throughout the year, that means it is guaranteed that Mumbai metro will not get flooded at least in the "normal" rainy days.

Now talking about "exceptional" rainy days, when either it rains continuously thought the day or intermittent rains throughout the week (which does not happens in Delhi). The drainage system can be further upgraded (from DMRC's standards) to meet additional demand as well during these days.

Okay you guys are missing the point.

Mumbai floods. Other cities do not. Even if Singapore & Delhi have underground metros, they do not flood often. Mumbai is at sealevel and doesn't have a decent drainage system.


Water would enter the metro system through the entrances (doors) of the metro. Usually water tends to fill up places with the lowest elevation...hence everytime it rains & floods, Metro system would be the first to go under.

Okay you guys are missing the point.

Mumbai floods. Other cities do not. Even if Singapore & Delhi have underground metros, they do not flood often. Mumbai is at sealevel and doesn't have a decent drainage system.


Water would enter the metro system through the entrances (doors) of the metro. Usually water tends to fill up places with the lowest elevation...hence everytime it rains & floods, Metro system would be the first to go under.

Kolkata floods when there is rain for few days. But havent heard that Metro is affected. The drainage system in the station takes care of the that problem

Exactly man. If they are damn serious about getting an underground railway, technology can be imported if they can't find a solution within the country.

what i meant was that technology sure has a solution but why give the problem any chance ?

i guess the way to make a underground system dry is to put barriers around the entrance 'hole' ... in mumbai's case these barriers need to be five feet or higher ... in places like kalina we would need barriers as high as a elevated system (so why go through the bother, just make only elevated)

also mumbai being at sea level is of very little consequence vis a vis Delhi as delhi is also totally a flat city (well almost) ...please note that dubai is also at sea level ... what is of consequence is the rainfall. mumbai is at the frontier of monsoon. at nighttime it rains relentlessly, sometimes for more than 6-7 hours ... on some days it rains throughout the day (i love it, but i know that most get quite irritated) .. then it rains the next day too ... and the day after that too ... then the day after that too ...

and mumbaikars know that this is the 'normal' pattern every year. 'exceptional' means more than a double deckers depth of water on the roads.

and it is not unexpected that it may get worse in next 20 years ... we want a metro which runs flawlessly for more than 50 years and then for the next 50 years ... and then for the next 50 years too ... an underground system is in risk of halting every year ...

:|

i think the people who build metro systems know more about how to prevent flooding and what measures to take in specific areas to prevent it. like i said the metro junction subway does not flood in monsoons and is well-maintained

contrary to popular perception bombay does not flood all over. there are specific low-lying areas where water tends to collect and some measures can always be adopted to prevent it

this whole flooding debate quite frankly is a non-issue. by that reasoning nobody should ever make basements in any part of bombay, but they are present in most places

Places flood because of rubbish drainage systems; nothing to do with the amount of rainfall.
If singapore , HK , and taipai, all cities with very heavy rain, can have underground metros , then so can bombay.
If they get it wrong it'll flood. Its that simple

TNN (http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=TOINEW&BaseHref=TOIM/2009/12/23&PageLabel=2&EntityId=Ar00201&ViewMode=HTML&GZ=T)

Mumbai: If MMRDA’s plans go right, Mumbai will get shorter.
Parallel to the Mumbai Trans-Harbour Link, the government agency plans to have a Metro corridor to bridge the distance between Navi Mumbai’s residential nodes and south Mumbai. Officials say the addition of Metro tracks would bring travel time along the 22-km route down to 35 minutes.
“We are planning a Metro over the sea, along the road corridor, and the project cost will now exceed Rs 8,000 crore instead of the earlier estimated cost of Rs 6,000 crore,’’ a MMRDA official said.
According to the officials, the new design and the proposal would later be forwarded to the state cabinet for approval; once the plan gets the goahead, the tendering process would start. The MMRDA had earlier planned a suburban railway track along the corridor but synchronisation was a difficult task as the Maharashtra State Road Development Corporation (MSRDC) was implementing the sea-link part of the Eastern Freeway, an official said. “However now, that we are handling the sea-link part as well, it will be easier for us to deal with the project,’’ the MMRDA official said.
Earlier, the project, which was estimated to cost over Rs 6,000 crore, had been bid for twice. Initially, it was marred by a clash between two Ambani brothers followed by no response to the second bid due to global economic slowdown. The new Metro corridor will reach Belapur where it would meet the proposed Mankhurd-Panvel Metro Corridor. On Sewri side, the Metro would be attached to third Colaba-Bandra-Airport Metro line at Prabhadevi.
The MMRDA also plans to implement this project on a public-private partnership (PPP) model, like it is being done in case of the ongoing work of the first line of the Metro, between Versova and Ghatkopar via Andheri. Similar work is poised to start between Charkop and Mankhurd via Bandra, for which Reliance Infrastructure has been appointed as the implementing agency. The tendering of the third Metro line (Colaba to Airport via Bandra) is yet to begin as the consultant’s report on its financial feasibility is still awaited. The sea link will be synchronized with the upcoming Eastern and Western Freeways and the existing Western and Eastern Express Highways.
“We felt the need of this planning due to upcoming the special economic zones and the Navi Mumbai airport. The line will be futuristic and can be extended up to Thane, Alibaug and Virar in future,’’ said the source. The project was first envisaged and recommended by then leading business tycoons like, JRD Tata and Dhirubhai Ambani.

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Land acquisition in city is MMRDA's latest mission

Ninad Siddhaye / DNAThursday, December 24, 2009 1:58 IST
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Mumbai: Taking a cue from the enormous number of hurdles it had to face acquiring land for the car depot of its first ever metro corridor from Versova to Ghatkopar, the Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority (MMRDA) has identified about 1,045 acres of land across the city, which it proposes to acquire. This land will be utilised for the upcoming six lines of metro in the city.

Additional metropolitan commissioner SVR Srinivas confirmed the development. "We have already sent a detailed proposal to the state government in this regard. The authority has faced numerous hurdles before acquiring the land for the first line of metro at DN Nagar. We do not want to get stuck in such a situation in future. Keeping this in mind, we have planned to acquire land in different parts of the city, which will be mainly used for car depots of metro as well as monorail," Srinivas told DNA.

According to a senior MMRDA official, the authority has sent a proposal in this regard on November 14. "We have identified about 14 sites, which together measure about 1,045.76 acres. The proposal has been sent to urban development department as well as the collector office.

Since most of the land belongs to government, it has to follow a principle of 'land grant' under the revenue department," the official said. When asked about the possibility of encroachments on the land, the official added that since the land belongs to the government, most of it is vacant with only a possibility of 10% encroachments.

Out of the 14 plots, which have been identified by MMRDA, the biggest land is in Kandivli RDP road no. 4 with an area on 262.59 acres; while the smallest piece of land is in Juhu Vile Parle Development (JVPD) area which is of 262.59 acres. Though the authority officials claim that there are no major encroachments on these plots, according to sources, the planning body may find it tough to vacate some of them.

Besides the land, MMRDA has also decided to go ahead with six more lines of the metro project. Metropolitan commissioner Ratnakar Gaikwad told DNA that the authority has already appointed consultants to prepare a Detailed Project Report (DPR) for the same. "We are expecting the reports by May next year. Out of the six lines, only two -- Bandra Kurla Complex (BKC) to Kanjurmarg via airport and Sewri to Prabhadevi -- will be underground. The rest four will be elevated," Gaikwad said.

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_land-acquisition-in-city-is-mmrda-s-latest-mission_1326915

^^ The acquisition is for the proposed metro lines mentioned below
Charkop - Dahisar(cost1,690 crore)
Ghatkopar - Mulund(cost 2790 crore)
Bkc-Kanjurmarg via airport(underground) (5312 crore)
Andheri(e) - Dahisar(e)(cost 4050 crore)
Hutatma chowk to Ghatkopar (cost 8,050 crore)
Sewri to Prabhadevi(underground)(cost 2187 crore)

Besides they are planning for 6 more metro lines one is from virar to alibaug

Finally some updates. Even though just about planning still better than useless discussion.

Finally some updates. Even though just about planning still better than useless discussion.

hahaha well said :lol:

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Hindustan Times

:banana:

Just curious, does Kolkata underground get flooded during rains? I have seen the roads getting flooded in Kolkata in rains.

And Chennai is going underground for atleast 20 kms. Chennai gets heavy rains during Oct-Dec.

Not at all....u wont even realise that outside roads are getting flooded with water. But some time they had to stop the service when it crossed the limit as the water started entering through the over ground main entrance. Don't remember the station name(almost 3-4 yrs back, am out of kolkata since then). But otherwise it has always been really smooth in the rainy season.

just came back from andheri. The work is going on at decent pace but the andheri kurla road is a mess .Already the road was poorly developed and with the metro construction going on it is really bad with paver blocks coming off on sidewalks, junctions.
I hope they develop this road properly after the work is done otherwise its gonna be an eyesore.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4797/32766462.jpg

Hindustan Times

^^^ What route is this? And whats the time-frame?

^^

It says it will run perpendicular to the existing railways. If everything goes well, it will start around April or May and will be completed in three and half years.

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/7522/48941920.jpg

Hindustan Times

Good, they are challenging it. Juhu/ Bandra- SantaCruz, as of now.Next on line would be Lokhandwala/ Groregaon. But one of the alternatives suggested by Linking Road Association is ridiculous. What is the necessity to have a brand new metro on SV Road from Vile Parle to Bandra, when the suburban railways is running about 100-200 m parallel to it.

just wondering about the route of hutatma chowk to ghatkopar link ... i guess it would pass from ballard estate and mumbai port area ... else why this route ?

^^ The acquisition is for the proposed metro lines mentioned below
Charkop - Dahisar(cost1,690 crore)
Ghatkopar - Mulund(cost 2790 crore)
Bkc-Kanjurmarg via airport(underground) (5312 crore)
Andheri(e) - Dahisar(e)(cost 4050 crore)
Hutatma chowk to Ghatkopar (cost 8,050 crore)
Sewri to Prabhadevi(underground)(cost 2187 crore)

Besides they are planning for 6 more metro lines one is from virar to alibaug

Fools don't even remove DMRC's logo while showing metro trains (even in the renderings).

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/7710/71249227.jpg

Hindustan Times

When can we expect fully operational Mumbai metro and the completion of phase 1 ?

hmm my guess is 2014

hmm my guess is 2014

Can't really be sure on that. Line 3 will not be an easy nut to crack. Though other 2 may be (hopefully) over by 2013.

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nice updates there, btw the WEH station is complete as in the base of it, the metal cladding has come off

yea had been to the east side couple of days ago looks like they are going to develop the area near the andheri station on both sides (east and west) the last ...good idea methinks too much of a hassle for now .

Can't really be sure on that. Line 3 will not be an easy nut to crack. Though other 2 may be (hopefully) over by 2013.

no i mean phase 1. or Ghatkopar to Versova

Yes i am very pessimistic on this :lol:

no i mean phase 1. or Ghatkopar to Versova

Yes i am very pessimistic on this :lol:

Versova to Ghatkopar is line 1. Phase 1 includes first 3 lines. I think we may see lines 4,5,6.... starting operations before line 3 even starts construction :lol:

Fools don't even remove DMRC's logo while showing metro trains (even in the renderings).

Hindustan Times


I think it is all about branding - metro has become synonymous with Delhi Metro, thanks to Shreedharan's fame.

Man if Reliance had got even some support from MMRDA, we'd be riding in the Mumbai Metro by now. I just don't understand why these people are let go when they're causing such huge loss for the city's reputation.

Mumbai had a perfect opportunity to become a huge global financial hub after the financial crisis and the Dubai debt problem, however thanks to the city's wonderful 18th century infrastructure, we won't get that status in the next 15 years.

About time Shiv Sena is booted out of BMC and Congress out of the state government. I wish Maharashtra had a leader with even 1/4th of the dynamism of Modi. Raj Thackeray has that dynamism but it works in destruction of infrastructure and creation of wealth for his family.

Man if Reliance had got even some support from MMRDA, we'd be riding in the Mumbai Metro by now. I just don't understand why these people are let go when they're causing such huge loss for the city's reputation.

Mumbai had a perfect opportunity to become a huge global financial hub after the financial crisis and the Dubai debt problem, however thanks to the city's wonderful 18th century infrastructure, we won't get that status in the next 15 years.

About time Shiv Sena is booted out of BMC and Congress out of the state government. I wish Maharashtra had a leader with even 1/4th of the dynamism of Modi. Raj Thackeray has that dynamism but it works in destruction of infrastructure and creation of wealth for his family.


or Shiela Dixit

Man if Reliance had got even some support from MMRDA, we'd be riding in the Mumbai Metro by now. I just don't understand why these people are let go when they're causing such huge loss for the city's reputation.

Mumbai had a perfect opportunity to become a huge global financial hub after the financial crisis and the Dubai debt problem, however thanks to the city's wonderful 18th century infrastructure, we won't get that status in the next 15 years.

what do you mean by 'let go'reliance is till wrking on the metro line and probably on line 2 as well. problem is the western suburbs .Its a mess. yes bmc,mmrda are to be blamed for poor planning but the people residing in these are equally to be blamed for this mess. The eastern suburbs ,southern mumbai and navi mumbai are much better in this regard.Look at the example of monorail .Work is going on the monorail without much controversy and probably will open at he same time as the first line of metro line1 ie late 2010 or early 2011.Agree with you on a need of good leadership which is sadly missing at the moment.

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8828/86720251.jpg

Hindustan Times

what do you mean by 'let go'reliance is till wrking on the metro line and probably on line 2 as well. problem is the western suburbs .Its a mess. yes bmc,mmrda are to be blamed for poor planning but the people residing in these are equally to be blamed for this mess. The eastern suburbs ,southern mumbai and navi mumbai are much better in this regard.Look at the example of monorail .Work is going on the monorail without much controversy and probably will open at he same time as the first line of metro line1 ie late 2010 or early 2011.Agree with you on a need of good leadership which is sadly missing at the moment.

There are problems in the central suburbs also in Line 1 of Metro from SakiNaka till Ghatkopar. It is just that the western suburbs are more vocal.

^^ hmm didnt know abt that ..they should have gone underground with the metro . hope they do for the second line otherwise it will be another round of delays :ohno:

^^ hmm didnt know abt that ..they should have gone underground with the metro . hope they do for the second line otherwise it will be another round of delays :ohno:

Yeah, hope that second line is also underground so that it costs 25,000 crore to build that line and it is also indefinitely delayed like 12,000 crore line 3 and Mumbaikars continue to die falling from suburban trains ??

mumbai is slowly become the city with no major infra development.

everything is stalled.

25,000 crore is what about 0.6 billion dollars. We have $290 billion in forex reserves.

Ofcourse there is money to build the stuff.

This line will probably make money back with interest in 15 years of operation as demand is certainly there.. So its not as if your throwing money away at a cost cause.

mumbai is slowly become the city with no major infra development.

everything is stalled.

25,000 crore is what about 0.6 billion dollars. We have $290 billion in forex reserves.

Ofcourse there is money to build the stuff.

This line will probably make money back with interest in 15 years of operation as demand is certainly there.. So its not as if your throwing money away at a cost cause.

First of all, forex reserves are not for building infrastructure. Their purpose is entirely different. BTW India has about $ 250 billion of external debt, so net reserves is only $ 40 billion.

Secondly, even if we assume that $ 290 billion is there for infra spending, then Mumbai is not alone. First priority is obviously the national projects like highways, power, etc. State govts can fund metro but it's central govt which has to spend on the national assets. India needs an expenditure of $ 250 billion in power sector alone in the 11th 5 year plan (2007-2012).

Thirdly, no metro project is this world is financially viable. You can at most recover your daily operating costs like Delhi metro or Hong Kong MTR but cannot recover your construction costs even if trains run jam packed like Mumbai locals. For instance, Delhi metro is seeing over crowding these days but still its revenues from tickets is half of the revenues generated from non-operational things (like advertising, property development). When private companies build metro, they also ask for a grant known as viability gap funding, plus they themselves have some vested interests which propels them for bidding for such projects (I guess memories of Maytas and Hyderabad metro will still be fresh in your mind). So, don't ever talk about generating profits etc., only talk about the society benefiting from the project, ie, economic benefits instead of financial benefits.

Fourthly, whatever money Mumbai has (after the Maharashtra govt corners its chai-pani), it is limited. So, Mumbai has to decide whether it wants 100 km of underground or 300 km of elevated lines. Centre or state cannot support selfish demands of Mumbaikars. There are 20 times more people in India living below poverty line than the whole population of Mumbai.

Fifthly, vote for a better govt and have ministers like Modi or Dikshit. Money is not a big problem but leadership is. Most of the Mumbaikars live in myths like Mumbai generates 40% taxes of country, or Delhi being the capital gets higher share of central funds and Mumbai is treated like an orphan, or Mumbai railway carries half of the traffic of Indian railways, etc. Plain BS !!

An answer to some of them. Mumbai has highest number of corporate headquarters, that's why taxes are paid here. It does not means Mumbai generates that money. Mumbai suburban carries half of the passenger traffic but what do they pay for travel, 5 Rs., 10 Rs. 20 Rs. ?? And what do the other half (the long distance passengers) pay - 500, 1000, 2000, 3000 etc. And do not forget that Indian Railways earns money only from the freight division and loses money in passenger division. This means rest of the country is already subsidizing 6 million rail commuters of Mumbai.

And after seeing the glitz of urban development of Delhi, people start saying that it receives more funds being a capital. Will you say same for Gujarat ? And even if Delhi receives higher amount of money from centre, then also it is justified as it is not a proper state, it is a mix of a union territory and a state. Central govt uses its resources like land (for all the central govt buildings, offices, HQs, parliament, bunglows, quarters, etc.), Delhi police for its own security, etc. So central govt is liable to pay for that as well.

Even if this post is not enough to rest the elevated vs underground debate, then I surrender.

sooner or later the government will realise that underground is the only way to go. till then some years of pain for the average bombayite. elevated will only work for 10-15% of bombay's surface area, and certainly not the areas where the metro is needed most

5 years of pain would be worth 50-100 years of good planning. of course it doesnt always work like that

First of all, forex reserves are not for building infrastructure. Their purpose is entirely different. BTW India has about $ 250 billion of external debt, so net reserves is only $ 40 billion.

they are. The chinese released their reserves to build infra recently. The Japanese have done the same. If anything the reserves have always been used to jump start the economy and infra spending. Special case in point the ten infrastructural instalments of Taiwan. built through forex reserves. what you are talking about not being used is known as a Sovereign Wealth fund. Forex's are mostly used to cover for 3 months of imports. India has far exceeded that amount. As far as the ratings go, with the current rate of growth in the 3rd quarter I dont think that the fiscal position needs to be guarded further.

Lastly each nation uses its forex reserves differently. Some do for infra , some do for fighting off their currency from depreciating, some aging nations use it as a pension plan. India has surpassed whats deemed enough cover by the IMF and world bank in forex reserves and IMO needs to shell some of it out.

Secondly, even if we assume that $ 290 billion is there for infra spending, then Mumbai is not alone. First priority is obviously the national projects like highways, power, etc. State govts can fund metro but it's central govt which has to spend on the national assets. India needs an expenditure of $ 250 billion in power sector alone in the 11th 5 year plan (2007-2012).

0.6 billion is a small amount. A large chunk of the projects your talking about the private sector will take up. It takes the government to step up and do those projects which the private sector does not want to touch.

Leave the power sector to the private players. Indian gov need not spend a dime. Let the General electric's of this world set up their solar wind and other plants. All the gov needs to do it regulate it.

Also a similar model to the cement industry and the regulations.

highways is the same issue, let the private players build those and collect the toll. Gov must step in only when companies start to monopolies activities.

As far as I know the mumbai pune express way nets a lot of revenue for Maharashtra gov. If anything that tells us toll highways will recover the money for the gov. Its not just spend and forget.

The bandra worli sea link also, it will recoup the money based on the toll it has. Maybe in 10 maybe in 20, but you will get a return.


Thirdly, no metro project is this world is financially viable. You can at most recover your daily operating costs like Delhi metro or Hong Kong MTR but cannot recover your construction costs even if trains run jam packed like Mumbai locals. For instance, Delhi metro is seeing over crowding these days but still its revenues from tickets is half of the revenues generated from non-operational things (like advertising, property development). When private companies build metro, they also ask for a grant known as viability gap funding, plus they themselves have some vested interests which propels them for bidding for such projects (I guess memories of Maytas and Hyderabad metro will still be fresh in your mind). So, don't ever talk about generating profits etc., only talk about the society benefiting from the project, ie, economic benefits instead of financial benefits.


did not know that. I stand corrected.

Fourthly, whatever money Mumbai has (after the Maharashtra govt corners its chai-pani), it is limited. So, Mumbai has to decide whether it wants 100 km of underground or 300 km of elevated lines. Centre or state cannot support selfish demands of Mumbaikars. There are 20 times more people in India living below poverty line than the whole population of Mumbai.

how is that selfish? Its not as we are living like kings and demanding more. Its the basic requirement of the city. Whats selfish is states not contributing to the centre demanding more. Atlest mumbai contributes its share.

Fifthly, vote for a better govt and have ministers like Modi or Dikshit. Money is not a big problem but leadership is. Most of the Mumbaikars live in myths like Mumbai generates 40% taxes of country, or Delhi being the capital gets higher share of central funds and Mumbai is treated like an orphan, or Mumbai railway carries half of the traffic of Indian railways, etc. Plain BS !!

that is true. The Maharashtra congress never gets anything done. Not denying that there. Also not denying that Maharashtra needs a modi or sheila(though hmm let me make a judgement after the commonwealth games on her)

An answer to some of them. Mumbai has highest number of corporate headquarters, that's why taxes are paid here. It does not means Mumbai generates that money. Mumbai suburban carries half of the passenger traffic but what do they pay for travel, 5 Rs., 10 Rs. 20 Rs. ?? And what do the other half (the long distance passengers) pay - 500, 1000, 2000, 3000 etc. And do not forget that Indian Railways earns money only from the freight division and loses money in passenger division. This means rest of the country is already subsidizing 6 million rail commuters of Mumbai.

give mumbai control over bombay high. We are subsidising the rest of the nations fuel demand. If anything take all the corporates but give us the control of the oil. You seem to conveniently forget the sheer oil contribution the city makes to the rest of the country. All the money the city need,we wont have to goto the centre. Plus tell me where does the majority of this feight originate from?

in most countries it does from the ports. Which city is India's most prominent port? Hence which city generate's the most feight? even the rest of maharashtra is a manufacturing power base.

why are they building a separate freight corridor from mumbai to delhi?

And after seeing the glitz of urban development of Delhi, people start saying that it receives more funds being a capital. Will you say same for Gujarat ? And even if Delhi receives higher amount of money from centre, then also it is justified as it is not a proper state, it is a mix of a union territory and a state. Central govt uses its resources like land (for all the central govt buildings, offices, HQs, parliament, bunglows, quarters, etc.), Delhi police for its own security, etc. So central govt is liable to pay for that as well.

Again, go through the economy report of the city. The majoirty of people in delhi are employed by the public sector and not the private. Look it up on your government's website. Mumbai the private sector is more dominant.

Secondly in this thread, who even made a mention of Delhi getting all the funds? You brought that up.



Even if this post is not enough to rest the elevated vs underground debate, then I surrender.

look mumbai is a very very densely populated city. Building a metro line on the ground overhead is not going to happen due to the sheer number of hurdles and the dense population.We have the geography of mumbai to blame for that.

give mumbai control over bombay high. We are subsidising the rest of the nations fuel demand. If anything take all the corporates but give us the control of the oil. You seem to conveniently forget the sheer oil contribution the city makes to the rest of the country.

Is Bombay High production counted as part of production in Maharashtra? Or is just considered as part of offshore production with no state claimants?

how is that selfish? Its not as we are living like kings and demanding more. Its the basic requirement of the city. Whats selfish is states not contributing to the centre demanding more. Atlest mumbai contributes its share.

By selfish I mean selfish demands of Mumbaikars, not that the people are selfish :). Even some south Delhiites made such kind of demands but who are they to talk such things when they are not even going to use it, or to pay for the extra cost required for underground. DMRC proceeded as per its plans only :cheers:

When same thing can be done in less money, then why spend 3 times more. Don't think that it is not possible to construct elevated lines in Mumbai coz of high density. With newer technologies everything is possible, the only thing needed is the support of govt and people.

I haven't said that Mumbai demands more than its share. It contributes a lot and should receive that much in return as well. But I have read so many times in Mumbai threads with people harping the fact about the tax contribution (40%), so Mumbai should get that much in return :lol:. Any well educated person will know the reality

sheila(though hmm let me make a judgement after the commonwealth games on her)

lol. She is the most efficient and respected person in Delhi after Sreedharan. Things which have got delayed (the stadiums) are not under her control. Regarding roads and other infrastructure, she has done well despite of red tape. You might have seen Delhi's new road infra in NCR roads and flyovers thread.

give mumbai control over bombay high. We are subsidising the rest of the nations fuel demand. If anything take all the corporates but give us the control of the oil. You seem to conveniently forget the sheer oil contribution the city makes to the rest of the country. All the money the city need,we wont have to goto the centre.

Bombay high is not Mumbai's property, it's a national asset. Just because Mumbai is the closest place to it won't make it Mumbai's. What was the contribution of Mumbai's money in developing that field ? Isn't all the money coming from centre as ONGC is a central govt owned PSU ? I can also say that it is ONGC's property, so the money should go to Dehradun (its HQ) or Delhi (its corporate office), but that won't be logical. Isn't it ?

Central govt has squatted a lot of prime space in central Delhi. Now should Delhi start hafta vasooli from them ? :lol:

Plus tell me where does the majority of this feight originate from? in most countries it does from the ports. Which city is India's most prominent port? Hence which city generate's the most feight? even the rest of maharashtra is a manufacturing power base.

why are they building a separate freight corridor from mumbai to delhi?

Of course most of the freight is shipped from Mumbai but again all of that consignment is not generated from Maharashtra. Lot of other states also contribute to it. This is again more of a national matter than state.

Now for example if Kandla port starts generating more traffic than Mumbai (which may actually happen in future), then it means govt should dole out huge sums for Kandla's development like metro, international airport etc. ? Of course not. Kandla being a small town does not needs that, but Mumbai does, irrespective of whether Mumbai has a port or not. So, having a port of Bombay High should not decide what Mumbai should get. But the population and commerce should decide that.

And the freight corridor is not only for Mumbai. You might be aware of the investment regions and industrial areas which will come up along with the corridor. Maharashtra just has a fraction of them. And BTW, there is one more freight corridor - Delhi to Kolkata, denying Mumbai any exclusivity :D.

Again, go through the economy report of the city. The majoirty of people in delhi are employed by the public sector and not the private. Look it up on your government's website. Mumbai the private sector is more dominant.

Wake up Sid :D. First of all Delhi is not an exclusive city. It has far overgrown its boundaries and entered into neighbouring cities. It is just a myth that most of the Delhiites are employed in public sector. Of course the percentage of public sector employees in Delhi would be higher than other cities but still that is not big. Delhi is known as a city of businessmen and traders. These small businessmen form the biggest fraction. And talking about suburbs, major fraction of them are employed by pvt. firms. In Delhi also, a big fraction is employed by pvt firms, otherwise how could you even imagine that such huge office space is meant for just 5 lakh residents of Gurgaon and Noida each.

If you have something different to share then tell me, it would be interesting to know that :)

BTW, I don't know why you made this comment. This has no relation to what I said. If it has, then it hasn't penetrated my skull to reach the brain. Please explain it :)

Secondly in this thread, who even made a mention of Delhi getting all the funds? You brought that up.

Come on. I obviously won't see such statements in Delhi threads. I have read this type of comments in many Mumbai threads (including this thread) and other cities threads.

look mumbai is a very very densely populated city. Building a metro line on the ground overhead is not going to happen due to the sheer number of hurdles and the dense population.We have the geography of mumbai to blame for that.

Just tell me how building elevated lines is worse for a dense city compared to underground lines (unless it is built by tunneling which is even more expensive than cut and cover method).

And after seeing the glitz of urban development of Delhi, people start saying that it receives more funds being a capital. Will you say same for Gujarat ? And even if Delhi receives higher amount of money from centre, then also it is justified as it is not a proper state, it is a mix of a union territory and a state. Central govt uses its resources like land (for all the central govt buildings, offices, HQs, parliament, bunglows, quarters, etc.), Delhi police for its own security, etc. So central govt is liable to pay for that as well.

Even if this post is not enough to rest the elevated vs underground debate, then I surrender.

Abhishek if such a sweeping argument is done that Govt persues a open check policy with respect to Delhi becuase it is the "political capital" of the country then there is also sense in making the argument that Mumbai being the "economic capital" deserves atleast 50% of the govt spending .As far as taxes to the national kitty is concerned then it is fact that mumbai contributes the maximum it is not just the corporate taxes as you imply, when it comes to Personal taxes it is mumbai which makes the highest contribution and in return it has to be dependent on Delhi Babus for Grants for much required(Infrastructure) projects.

Your argument about no Metro being financially Viable will be proved otherwise by the Pvt Sector Line 1 and Line 2 operations in Mumbai when Reliance will operate the line and return profits (Net Profits including capital and land costs not, just the operationg profit).Ofcourse if Govt PSU or even autonomus bodies like DMRC are executing the same projects then you are right at best they will just be make operating profits.

Yeah, hope that second line is also underground so that it costs 25,000 crore to build that line and it is also indefinitely delayed like 12,000 crore line 3 and Mumbaikars continue to die falling from suburban trains ??
lol sad but true that has been the state of affairs in the city for past 10yrs

Is Bombay High production counted as part of production in Maharashtra? Or is just considered as part of offshore production with no state claimants?

if mumbai were a seperate entity

according to the international water laws, the oil fields would come under mumbai.

Its similar to the oil fields of Houston.

bombay high would not be under bombay. its not even close to bombay, its 160 kms off. it was named bombay high because the team which discovered the field was based in bombay

Abhishek if such a sweeping argument is done that Govt persues a open check policy with respect to Delhi becuase it is the "political capital" of the country then there is also sense in making the argument that Mumbai being the "economic capital" deserves atleast 50% of the govt spending .As far as taxes to the national kitty is concerned then it is fact that mumbai contributes the maximum it is not just the corporate taxes as you imply, when it comes to Personal taxes it is mumbai which makes the highest contribution and in return it has to be dependent on Delhi Babus for Grants for much required(Infrastructure) projects.

Your argument about no Metro being financially Viable will be proved otherwise by the Pvt Sector Line 1 and Line 2 operations in Mumbai when Reliance will operate the line and return profits (Net Profits including capital and land costs not, just the operationg profit).Ofcourse if Govt PSU or even autonomus bodies like DMRC are executing the same projects then you are right at best they will just be make operating profits.

Guys can you people please get over the fact that Delhi is not just a political city anymore, sick and tired of it now, come out of this perception(What you say in hindi" Kuwe ke mendak bahar ki duniya nahi jaante") don't make me say this.

Delhi is not just about Babu's and Politicians, its more than that, People in Delhi live there life to fullest ,Delhites are more employed with private concerns , babu population is almost as much as that of mumbai, Gurgaon alone has eaten up big chunk out of mumbai's corp culture, Real estate prices in delhi are soaring higher n higher day by day. delhi has highest number of Millionaires ( Mumbai has highest number of billionaires not millionaires).We pay taxes too GDP contribution by NCR is very very close to that of mumbai.

talking of political thing, Wow news mein mumbai rehta hai for all wrong reasons in politics, may it be raj, shiv sena, congress blah blah blah.

we've never seen any political mishappening in Delhi, really all the top politicians are there in delhi but no one is ever seen on streets and news making or doing silly things.

sorry its off topic, but it doesn't make any sense, Abhishek is right you wont see people talking about pros and cons of mumbai in delhi threads, then why this insecurity in mumbai threads.


cheers


Note: No hard feelings guys, Love mumbai too

don't take me in other sense yaar, just wanted to clear the air

sorry its off topic, but it doesn't make any sense, Abhishek is right you wont see people talking about pros and cons of mumbai in delhi threads, then why this insecurity in mumbai threads.

umm, abhishek was the first one to mention delhi here. who's got the insecurity?

bombay's problems are not so much related to the centre as much as the state. the city is run by villagers and small towners from all over maharashtra who are more interested in their constituency than the city. give it city-state status and things will improve dramatically. also india's lop-sided taxation doesnt help. more taxes and powers should be available to local bodies than to states or the federal government. thats how it works in most of the world

of course thats never happening

By selfish I mean selfish demands of Mumbaikars, not that the people are selfish :). Even some south Delhiites made such kind of demands but who are they to talk such things when they are not even going to use it, or to pay for the extra cost required for underground. DMRC proceeded as per its plans only :cheers:


we are right to make those demands. Its not asking for a golden chariot. Just an underground line on the western suberbs. nobody is even saying that you make everything underground. Just the densely populated western suburbs which are a problem.

When same thing can be done in less money, then why spend 3 times more. Don't think that it is not possible to construct elevated lines in Mumbai coz of high density. With newer technologies everything is possible, the only thing needed is the support of govt and people.

yeah but time is a factor. you need to acquire land and stuff. No point in finishing something cheaper but 100 years late. Acquiring land means PIL after PIL after PIL.

I haven't said that Mumbai demands more than its share. It contributes a lot and should receive that much in return as well. But I have read so many times in Mumbai threads with people harping the fact about the tax contribution (40%), so Mumbai should get that much in return :lol:. Any well educated person will know the reality

again, not the fault of mumbai that corporate honchos like to make it their base. They have many other cities as options, but dont make it their base. The fact is that when the british left the financial capital of india was kolkotta and the primary port Surat. It was the policies of the local admin which drew business. guj concentrated on building Gandhinagar, maharashtra concentrated on mumbai. not our fault that business fled kolkotta due to the communists.


lol. She is the most efficient and respected person in Delhi after Sreedharan. Things which have got delayed (the stadiums) are not under her control. Regarding roads and other infrastructure, she has done well despite of red tape. You might have seen Delhi's new road infra in NCR roads and flyovers thread.

i am not doubting that. But will reserve judgement till the commonwealth games. Maharashtra gov for all its flaws put on a good show in the youth commonwealth games in Pune. (obviously youth games are far from the real thing)

Bombay high is not Mumbai's property, it's a national asset. Just because Mumbai is the closest place to it won't make it Mumbai's. What was the contribution of Mumbai's money in developing that field ? Isn't all the money coming from centre as ONGC is a central govt owned PSU ? I can also say that it is ONGC's property, so the money should go to Dehradun (its HQ) or Delhi (its corporate office), but that won't be logical. Isn't it ?


look nobody is saying it is not a national asset. Mumbaikars as indians are happy to contribute. But when you say India does not owe mumbai anything and mumbai owes india. Just keep in mind that its mumbai where a substantial chunk of the oil flows from.

Look at saudi arabia, they did not develop their fields. Other foreign companies did. If the gov dd open up the sector like they did to crain energy in rajastan , it would be in private hands.

ONGC developed it cause Indian gov imposed a monopoly in the 1970s. No wonder they developed it. You impose a monopoly on everything then say "india" developed it, you just missing the point.

Central govt has squatted a lot of prime space in central Delhi. Now should Delhi start hafta vasooli from them ? :lol:

maybe you should. the law is the law. Even in mumbai the gov occupies many illegal buildings. Does not mean that the law should not be upheld.



Of course most of the freight is shipped from Mumbai but again all of that consignment is not generated from Maharashtra. Lot of other states also contribute to it. This is again more of a national matter than state.

Mumbai is the gateway from guj and Maha mostly. the east has kolkotta and the south has chennai.



Now for example if Kandla port starts generating more traffic than Mumbai (which may actually happen in future), then it means govt should dole out huge sums for Kandla's development like metro, international airport etc. ? Of course not. Kandla being a small town does not needs that, but Mumbai does, irrespective of whether Mumbai has a port or not. So, having a port of Bombay High should not decide what Mumbai should get. But the population and commerce should decide that.

yes the gov should invest if that happens to meet the needs of the local pop there. The current infra in mumbai is not suitable for 21 million people in the metro area. I dont understand your thinking. If some place becomes strategically important ofcourse the gov should invest.

And the freight corridor is not only for Mumbai. You might be aware of the investment regions and industrial areas which will come up along with the corridor. Maharashtra just has a fraction of them. And BTW, there is one more freight corridor - Delhi to Kolkata, denying Mumbai any exclusivity :D.


again not really. the top 2 FDI destinations are guj and maharashtra. Like i said the mumbai port serves primarily western india.


Wake up Sid :D. First of all Delhi is not an exclusive city. It has far overgrown its boundaries and entered into neighbouring cities. It is just a myth that most of the Delhiites are employed in public sector. Of course the percentage of public sector employees in Delhi would be higher than other cities but still that is not big. Delhi is known as a city of businessmen and traders. These small businessmen form the biggest fraction. And talking about suburbs, major fraction of them are employed by pvt. firms. In Delhi also, a big fraction is employed by pvt firms, otherwise how could you even imagine that such huge office space is meant for just 5 lakh residents of Gurgaon and Noida each.

tell that to your government statisticians. The stats unencompass the entire NCR or urban area.

http://www.delhi.gov.in/wps/wcm/connect/DoIT_Planning/planning/economic+survey+of+dehli/economic+survey+of+delhi+08+-+09/economic+survey+of+delhi+2008++2009(english)

above is the economic survey of Delhi 2008-2009. Compare Delhi's own tax revenue to that of grants from the centre.

And secondly the clinching stat

The employment of NCR region. Page 74 the economic survey of Delhi NCR 2008-2009 Public sector employment(centre state and local bodies) (aka gov) 6 mill. Private section employment 2 mill

with respect abhi tell your statisticians to wake up if you feel that this does not reflect delhi. Cause to the lay man it seems Delhi is driven by the government spending.

If you have something different to share then tell me, it would be interesting to know that :)

link provided above. to me its not interesting but something Mumbaikars have known all along.

BTW, I don't know why you made this comment. This has no relation to what I said. If it has, then it hasn't penetrated my skull to reach the brain. Please explain it :)

which comment specify? You were the one comparing Delhi to mumbai. the comment was made in that relation.



Come on. I obviously won't see such statements in Delhi threads. I have read this type of comments in many Mumbai threads (including this thread) and other cities threads.

and with good reason. in this case my statement was with relation to the lack of movement of projects on part of the maharashtra state government. I personally saw no need to drag delhi or the centre into this.



Just tell me how building elevated lines is worse for a dense city compared to underground lines (unless it is built by tunneling which is even more expensive than cut and cover method)

How will you construct them? cordon off sections of the city with those only roads? What about the airport? You can have an elevated line there. South mumbai has heritage structures. Now i am all for demolishing them.

The basic fact if an elevated line is going to result in massive court cases which will delay the project too much by businesses and people affected in some way. The thane kurla 5-6 line on the suburban teaches us that. In an ideal world elevated corridors would be the best solution. Not in this case. the practicality does not allow it.

bombay's problems are not so much related to the centre as much as the state. the city is run by villagers and small towners from all over maharashtra who are more interested in their constituency than the city. give it city-state status and things will improve dramatically. also india's lop-sided taxation doesnt help. more taxes and powers should be available to local bodies than to states or the federal government. thats how it works in most of the world

of course thats never happening

thats not possible due to geography believe me.

If maharashtra decides to tax the hell all goods coming in and out of mumbai. Even the plants supplying most of mumbai's power are situated in maharashtra .

A more viable solution will be to split the state into 2-3 smaller states.

separate viderbha and marathwada from the rest.

bombay high would not be under bombay. its not even close to bombay, its 160 kms off. it was named bombay high because the team which discovered the field was based in bombay

it would.

The north sea oil is more than 160km off the scottish coast. yet they pump it as part of British oil.

there is something known as economic waters.

umm, abhishek was the first one to mention delhi here. who's got the insecurity?

did i really specifically talked about this thread, read it again dude its everywhere not just here.
i said that i am fed up of this funding issue, delhi deserves what they are getting fine.

about mumbai, i am getting all the stats,thing is mumbai politicians keep the money under there asses ( unarguable it is), they eat up all the money that Mumbai and its people deserve, is that a problem of delhi.

comeon, would not like to talk about this anymore.

go and see the news headlines today.

Ashok Chavan, CM says " if you dont give me the votes , i wont help your place get developed"

that sums it up dude.

no further comments from my side now.
and bombay boy anyways i hardly take your comments to my heart.i read your comments.

cheers

did i really specifically talked about this thread, read it again dude its everywhere not just here.
i said that i am fed up of this funding issue, delhi deserves what they are getting fine.

about mumbai, i am getting all the stats,thing is mumbai politicians keep the money under there asses ( unarguable it is), they eat up all the money that Mumbai and its people deserve, is that a problem of delhi.

comeon, would not like to talk about this anymore.

go and see the news headlines today.

Ashok Chavan, CM says " if you dont give me the votes , i wont help your place get developed"

that sums it up dude.

no further comments from my side now.
and bombay boy anyways i hardly take your comments to my heart.i read your comments.

cheers

nobody is saying that the maharashtra gov are efficient

with all the comment from me. Have i ever said anything good about them?

the congress is a curse for maharashtra

we needed the bjp

thats not possible due to geography believe me.

If maharashtra decides to tax the hell all goods coming in and out of mumbai. Even the plants supplying most of mumbai's power are situated in maharashtra .

A more viable solution will be to split the state into 2-3 smaller states.

separate viderbha and marathwada from the rest.

+1,

it will also propel better administration and development, which will inversely help mumbai in releasing some of its human concentration to those centers and will help mumbai improve its infra by decreasing the ever growing load on it.

against everybody's wish this might help , taking example of uttrakhand, have to say uttrakhand is now very well maintained state after it got seperated from UP.

mumbai is slowly become the city with no major infra development.

everything is stalled.

25,000 crore is what about 0.6 billion dollars. We have $290 billion in forex reserves.

Ofcourse there is money to build the stuff.

This line will probably make money back with interest in 15 years of operation as demand is certainly there.. So its not as if your throwing money away at a cost cause.


this is the original post which started this all. How delhi came into this I dont know.

I fully accept that the maharashtra state gov is incompetent. But where is delhi mentioned in this all?

nobody is saying that the maharashtra gov are efficient

with all the comment from me. Have i ever said anything good about them?

the congress is a curse for maharashtra

we needed the bjp

hehehe you need BJP, dude trust me BJP too is of no good, they'll take mumbai 20 years back.

its not about party, its all about a DYNAMIC LEADER( Not RAJ THARKI pleaseeee)

you try getting into politics , i'll vote for a SSC forumer

hehehe you need BJP, dude trust me BJP too is of no good, they'll take mumbai 20 years back.

its not about party, its all about a DYNAMIC LEADER( Not RAJ THARKI pleaseeee)

you try getting into politics , i'll vote for a SSC forumer

Gadkarri and Munde are good for infra

that much i know.

they may not be good for the farmers, but good for infra.

if mumbai were a seperate entity

according to the international water laws, the oil fields would come under mumbai.



Pls note that I do not have legal expertise.

If Mumbai were a separate entity within India (like say UT) it probably would not have any jurisdiction over Bombay High.

Article 297 of the Constitution of India sets out that all lands, minerals and other things of value underlying the ocean within the territorial waters, or the continental shelf, or the exclusive economic zone, of India shall vest in the Union and be held for the purposes of the Union. As per a Bombay High Court ruling (http://taxindiaonline.com/RC2/inside2.php3?filename=bnews_detail.php3&newsid=7682) "The High Court held that, the rights over the territorial waters, the continental shelf and the contiguous zone from the EEZ are to be exercised by the Sovereign nation i.e. India and not by States consisting the Union of India"

If Mumbai were an independent nation, then too it would have to hard bargain with India to get a share as there would be intersections of claims by India and Mumbai.

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/733/bombayhighprobable.jpg (http://img709.imageshack.us/i/bombayhighprobable.jpg/)

Pls note that I do not have legal expertise.

If Mumbai were a separate entity within India (like say UT) it probably would not have any jurisdiction over Bombay High.

Article 297 of the Constitution of India sets out that all lands, minerals and other things of value underlying the ocean within the territorial waters, or the continental shelf, or the exclusive economic zone, of India shall vest in the Union and be held for the purposes of the Union. As per a Bombay High Court ruling (http://taxindiaonline.com/RC2/inside2.php3?filename=bnews_detail.php3&newsid=7682) "The High Court held that, the rights over the territorial waters, the continental shelf and the contiguous zone from the EEZ are to be exercised by the Sovereign nation i.e. India and not by States consisting the Union of India"

If Mumbai were an independent nation, then too it would have to hard bargain with India to get a share as there would be intersections of claims by India and Mumbai.






http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/733/bombayhighprobable.jpg (http://img709.imageshack.us/i/bombayhighprobable.jpg/)

you are absolutely right suncity..!!!

Pls note that I do not have legal expertise.

If Mumbai were a separate entity within India (like say UT) it probably would not have any jurisdiction over Bombay High.

Article 297 of the Constitution of India sets out that all lands, minerals and other things of value underlying the ocean within the territorial waters, or the continental shelf, or the exclusive economic zone, of India shall vest in the Union and be held for the purposes of the Union. As per a Bombay High Court ruling (http://taxindiaonline.com/RC2/inside2.php3?filename=bnews_detail.php3&newsid=7682) "The High Court held that, the rights over the territorial waters, the continental shelf and the contiguous zone from the EEZ are to be exercised by the Sovereign nation i.e. India and not by States consisting the Union of India"

If Mumbai were an independent nation, then too it would have to hard bargain with India to get a share as there would be intersections of claims by India and Mumbai.

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/733/bombayhighprobable.jpg (http://img709.imageshack.us/i/bombayhighprobable.jpg/)

your right. GOI currently has control. I support their control as an indian. But If mumbai was a separate entity from 1947 it would not given the right to the centre now would it? When it comes top getting out of the union the constitution is thrown out of the window. thats what happened in the indo pak separation. Pak ended up getting much more than what they should have.

It the same with oil in Assam. You dont have much control over the oil assets in your state.

its a sort of freight equalisation policy.


Mumbai has no issue in giving people oil. We are proud indians. But lets not come out with statements like Mumbai owes india. India owes mumbai as much as mumbai owes india.

People make it sound as if mumbai should be lucky to be part of india.

on top of which bombay high is not a pin point on the map. It extends throughout a big area

delete

Ok i dont want to discuss this anymore in this thread. So wont be replying to anything apart from Mumbai metro posts.

IMO mumbai deserves the 0.6 billion dollar underground link in the western suburbs. Its not that big an amount. Otherwise you will have an elevated corridor along juhu beach.

The fact is that when the british left the financial capital of india was kolkotta and the primary port Surat. It was the policies of the local admin which drew business. guj concentrated on building Gandhinagar, maharashtra concentrated on mumbai. not our fault that business fled kolkotta due to the communists.

I really dont know where you are getting this idea that at 1947 Surat was a more important port than Bombay...

Lets also not forget that upto 1960, Gujarat and Maharashtra were united with Bombay as the Capital, Main Port, Financial Centre and Highest Beneficiary of public spending.

With regards to Gandhinagar, It wasnt until 1965 that the idea for Gandhinagar was even put forward, so again, whilst I agree that it was a waste of resources (thank you congress), there is no doubt that Bombay was leagues ahead of Surat by that point.

(even if you believe that Surat was better placed at 1947!)


Mumbai is the gateway from guj and Maha mostly. the east has kolkotta and the south has chennai.

the top 2 FDI destinations are guj and maharashtra. Like i said the mumbai port serves primarily western india.


Gujarat has more than its own share of ports, the 2 largest ports in Kutch District alone seeing far more freight than the 2 Ports of Bombay.

Mumbai has no issue in giving people oil.

Mumbai isn't giving any oil to India (unless you are referring to the output from the refineries). So it really isn't an issue at all.

on top of which bombay high is not a pin point on the map. It extends throughout a big area

Those are appx coords. That's why it is marked probable. I believe details are not readily available for obvious reasons.


India owes mumbai as much as mumbai owes india.

Thanks for clarifying your stand.

^^^ Gujarat has a lot of ports , but Mumbai still handles around 65 % of the entire container traffic of India. That is because Mumbai is a natural harbour , an excellent one. Maybe thats the reason why Bombay was named so . {Bombay means an excellent port in Portuguese ] .

Stats arent hard to find, guess its just down the individual whether they think "Containerised Traffic" or "Total Traffic" are more important parameters.

what do you mean by 'let go'reliance is till wrking on the metro line and probably on line 2 as well.

By let go, I meant MMRDA and all the crap Mah govt people. I will forever stay indebted to R-ADAG for professional reasons :-)

:nuts: What has happened in last hour. I was about to press reply button and my internet connection went off :ohno:

Anyways, here it is. I would like to clarify the stand as per my belief.

Abhishek if such a sweeping argument is done that Govt persues a open check policy with respect to Delhi becuase it is the "political capital" of the country then there is also sense in making the argument that Mumbai being the "economic capital" deserves atleast 50% of the govt spending .As far as taxes to the national kitty is concerned then it is fact that mumbai contributes the maximum it is not just the corporate taxes as you imply, when it comes to Personal taxes it is mumbai which makes the highest contribution and in return it has to be dependent on Delhi Babus for Grants for much required(Infrastructure) projects.

When did I say Delhi should get funds because it is political capital. You say Mumbai should get 50% of centre's funds !! Dude Delhi is quite close to Mumbai in income tax and corporate tax. Then it should get 40 %. Then what will rest of India get. Peanuts ? :lol:

And please do not say, Mumbai has to be dependent on Delhi's babus. They are not from Delhi. They are representing the country and not India. YOU elected them and not Delhi. Delhi's share is just 7 seats out of 550 in Lok Sabha elections. And do you think Delhi govt collects and dispenses all the money. Delhi govt itself asks for money from these your so called "Delhi babus" like all other states.

And BTW I am doubtful of the fact that Mumbai contributes more than Delhi in personal income tax collections. Firstly Delhi's population (18 million) is more than that of Greater Mumbai (14 million). Secondly, Delhi's per capita income is much higher than that of Mumbai. Few years back ToI reported (on the front page) that Delhi's per capita income is 43% higher than Mumbai. Also the number of millionaires in Delhi was more than Mumbai. And I quite sure that this gap has further widened after that report.

Now with smaller population and lower per capita income, how can Mumbai contribute more than Delhi. Now this can happen in two cases. Either these people include areas like Navi Mumbai etc. which lie outside Greater Mumbai for this purpose thus wrongly tilting the balance in favour of Mumbai, or Delhiites evade taxes more than Mumbaikars :D.

And believe it or not, the commercial capital tag for Mumbai is short lived (though financial capital tag would remain). If past and present is any indicator, then things are going in favour of NCR. You may like to look at these facts :

* At the time of independence, Delhi with a population of just 7 lakhs was not even recognized as the major metro (Mumbai, Kolkata and Chennai were the 3 major ones). But now Delhi is both the most populous city and the most populous metropolitan region. NCR's projected population is 64 million for 2021, much higher than Mumbai metropolitan region.

* Delhi's metro plan (413 km) is 3 times bigger than that of Mumbai (146 km). By second phase itself (2010), Delhi metro will be 190 km.

* Delhi airport's ultimate capacity (100 million +) is more than the combined ultimate capacity of existing (40 m) and Navi Mumbai airport (40 m). Besides that Delhi's second airport planned at Greater Noida (84 million) will have also have more capacity than Mumbai's two airports combined.

* Delhi has 33,000 km of roads, the largest network for any city in India and with even bigger NCR, it will be very high. NCR already has many operational and under construction expressways (Delhi-Gurgaon expy, DND flyway, Noida-Greater Noida expy, Western Peripheral expy, Taj expy, Ghaziabad-Greater Noida expy). Many are about to start like Eastern peripheral expy, Northern peripheral expy, southern peripheral expy (last both in Gurgaon), Ganga expy. Moreover there are so many planned (few by NHAI like Delhi-Dehradun, Delhi-Chandigarh, Delhi-Jaipur and recently NCR planning board came up with 15 proposed expressways in NCR).

* No. of vehicles in Delhi alone is 60 lakh, more than the combined number of Mumbai, Kolkata and Chennai and with NCR, it is 112 lakhs. No other city in this world matches this number, not even Tokyo.

* Number of flyovers in Delhi is almost twice that of Mumbai and still increasing at a faster rate.

* Area of NCR is 33,578 sq. km compared to 5-6,000 sq km for Mumbai metropolitan region (not exactly sure about Mumbai's figure), which means much more potential for Delhi.

* Talking about buses now, Delhi already has the largest fleet of public buses (DTC + bluelines) in India among all cities and by 2011, its fleet will expand to 11,000 with all the buses of low-floor category. No other city in India can even think of such a huge fleet and all low-floor buses in next 2 decades. And obviously, suburbs have also started procuring low floor and AC buses, adding to the numbers.

* I haven't included any games related infra (Asian games and CWG and maybe Olympics in future) as I feel this infra does not matters much for a citizen.

My intention is not to start any unhealthy Delhi vs Mumbai competition. I have presented these as facts and not as my beliefs or ideas. I have done so because I feel that there are a lot of widespread myths in our country, esp. about Mumbai. Most of the people feel that their city is most important or the best, but I have seen this thing most in Mumbai as people are not aware of the ground situation and start saying nasty things like 40% tax, half of rail commuters etc. How many of you were actually aware of the facts which I just presented. And remember, I am asking this to those people who are expected to be most aware of such facts beings active members of community like SSC. And what about other aam janta ? That community is even more ignorant.

I cannot blame aam janta for that. Most of the blame goes to Bollywood for projecting Mumbai in a different light altogether. For an average Indian, Mumbai is a "maya nagri" where all dreams come true coz of the hype built around it by bollywood (and because of that Mumbai attracts so many migrants :D). And BTW, for average westerner, Mumbai will be like hell after Slumdog, Another case of misrepresentation :ohno:.

I remember in one movie a girl asks an aspiring model "What are you doing in this "small town". If you want to realize your dreams, you have to go to Mumbai". And this small town was Delhi !! :D. A city bigger in area, population, income suddenly became a small town :cheers:. And aam janta would believe this coz they don't know much about either of the 2 cities.

Of course, Mumbai is very important for India but India won't stop if Mumbai (or for that matter, Delhi) stops. We need to realize this as soon as we can. Lets be more realistic rather than being chauvinistic, it's ultimately going to help us in long run.

Again I would say that I have no extra love for Delhi or any grudge against Mumbai. I am an Indian first (and you can see that from my avatar and signature :D).

Your argument about no Metro being financially Viable will be proved otherwise by the Pvt Sector Line 1 and Line 2 operations in Mumbai when Reliance will operate the line and return profits (Net Profits including capital and land costs not, just the operationg profit).Ofcourse if Govt PSU or even autonomus bodies like DMRC are executing the same projects then you are right at best they will just be make operating profits.

And you forgot viability gap funding and the Hyderabad metro case :ohno:

Haha & Thackrey family would have been unemployed

bombay's problems are not so much related to the centre as much as the state. the city is run by villagers and small towners from all over maharashtra who are more interested in their constituency than the city. give it city-state status and things will improve dramatically. also india's lop-sided taxation doesnt help. more taxes and powers should be available to local bodies than to states or the federal government. thats how it works in most of the world

of course thats never happening

+1

we are right to make those demands. Its not asking for a golden chariot. Just an underground line on the western suberbs. nobody is even saying that you make everything underground. Just the densely populated western suburbs which are a problem.

I agree that line 3 should be underground but making many more lines underground will go against Mumbai itself. For fulfilling the wishes of western suburbs, many other parts of Mumbai will have to wait longer to see metro as most of the available funds will be cornered by these underground lines

yeah but time is a factor. you need to acquire land and stuff. No point in finishing something cheaper but 100 years late. Acquiring land means PIL after PIL after PIL.

Land acquisitions may also be required for underground lines. Delhi metro's yellow line has a depot at surface though the line was underground. If govt has will then all these land acquisitions will not stop or delay work. How could Delhi go on building line after line in a record time and ahead of deadlines. Obviously coz of leadership from both DMRC and state govt.


look nobody is saying it is not a national asset. Mumbaikars as indians are happy to contribute. But when you say India does not owe mumbai anything and mumbai owes india. Just keep in mind that its mumbai where a substantial chunk of the oil flows from.

I am saying that both owe each other. I raised this fact only because Mumbaikars think that India owes a lot to them and India is running because of Mumbai. I am not pointing at you but this is the general belief of not just people but our stupid media as well. Just after Taj hotel attacks, ToI ran a campaign which again said that BS - Mumbai contributes 40% of taxes and blah blah. Don't you think that Mumbai is more dependent on India than vice versa. Imagine India without Mumbai. India will lose just 4% of GDP. But what about Mumbai ? It won't be even able to have its own air force or navy. Not just for Mumbai, this is applicable to any other city.

yes the gov should invest if that happens to meet the needs of the local pop there. The current infra in mumbai is not suitable for 21 million people in the metro area. I dont understand your thinking. If some place becomes strategically important ofcourse the gov should invest.

come on. If Kandla has a population equal to a suburb of Mumbai, then also Kandla should get more money than Mumbai because it is generating revenues, even if it does not needs it. If Kandla has surplus revenue then does it means its money should not be given to those areas which need more (say, Ahmedabad or Mumbai) and instead Kandla's roads should be laid with gold because Kandla has generated that money ?

Kandla should receive money on the basis of its real needs rather than based on the revenues it generates.

again not really. the top 2 FDI destinations are guj and maharashtra. Like i said the mumbai port serves primarily western india.

What I have read is that Delhi NCR region attracts most FDI. See here (http://www.orissadiary.com/ShowBussinessNews.asp?id=3555).

tell that to your government statisticians. The stats unencompass the entire NCR or urban area.

http://www.delhi.gov.in/wps/wcm/connect/DoIT_Planning/planning/economic+survey+of+dehli/economic+survey+of+delhi+08+-+09/economic+survey+of+delhi+2008++2009(english)

above is the economic survey of Delhi 2008-2009. Compare Delhi's own tax revenue to that of grants from the centre.

And secondly the clinching stat

The employment of NCR region.

with respect abhi tell your statisticians to wake up if you feel that this does not reflect delhi. Cause to the lay man it seems Delhi is driven by the government spending.

The link is not working :ohno:. And I cannot believe that 6 million are employed in public sector. This seems to be gross miscalculation. If one person from a family is employed in govt sector that means 6 million households or roughly 24 million of population. Do you want to say that 24 million people are directly or indirectly dependent on govt sector ? That was a nasty joke :lol:


which comment specify? You were the one comparing Delhi to mumbai. the comment was made in that relation.

This one

Again, go through the economy report of the city. The majoirty of people in delhi are employed by the public sector and not the private. Look it up on your government's website. Mumbai the private sector is more dominant.


How will you construct them? cordon off sections of the city with those only roads? What about the airport? You can have an elevated line there. South mumbai has heritage structures. Now i am all for demolishing them.

The basic fact if an elevated line is going to result in massive court cases which will delay the project too much by businesses and people affected in some way. The thane kurla 5-6 line on the suburban teaches us that. In an ideal world elevated corridors would be the best solution. Not in this case. the practicality does not allow it.

That's again your belief that underground is free from all this and elevated will create so much of trouble. When Delhi can do it peacefully and successfully, then I can see a hope for Mumbai as well. Again it depends on leadership than the ground condition.

Stats arent hard to find, guess its just down the individual whether they think "Containerised Traffic" or "Total Traffic" are more important parameters.

That still makes it 21 % !! Not bad isn't it ?? The gap is due to commodites such as coal , iron ore which is handled mostly by ports of Orissa, WB as thats where the minerals are extracted from .Mumbai has an excellent natural harbour which makes it ideally suited for handling such high cargo. Gujarat's Kandla is catching up , so lets see !! It is only because of this that Mumbai is the commercial capital of the country , & that's why the hub of most business .
All Mumbai asks for is to be stop treated as a golden goose . This is an island city bursting at its seems & hence cannot be expanded forever like Delhi NCR or even Bangalore . But it still has more people that the above .

Having said that , I believe this thread must be restricted for the Metro only , but since the debate is very valid , i suggest we can continue this discussion somewhere else.

Having said that , I believe this thread must be restricted for the Metro only , but since the debate is very valid , i suggest we can continue this discussion somewhere else.

Chaibar? ;) Anyways it has again become dormant :).

Chaibar? ;) Anyways it has again become dormant :).

yh.. SInce im not tooo goood at starting threads, you wanna take the initiative??? Atleast suggest me a good name to make it sound attractive :P

:nuts: What has happened in last hour. I was about to press reply button and my internet connection went off :ohno:

Anyways, here it is. I would like to clarify the stand as per my belief.



When did I say Delhi should get funds because it is political capital. You say Mumbai should get 50% of centre's funds !! Dude Delhi is quite close to Mumbai in income tax and corporate tax. Then it should get 40 %. Then what will rest of India get. Peanuts ? :lol:

And please do not say, Mumbai has to be dependent on Delhi's babus. They are not from Delhi. They are representing the country and not India. YOU elected them and not Delhi. Delhi's share is just 7 seats out of 550 in Lok Sabha elections. And do you think Delhi govt collects and dispenses all the money. Delhi govt itself asks for money from these your so called "Delhi babus" like all other states.

And BTW I am doubtful of the fact that Mumbai contributes more than Delhi in personal income tax collections. Firstly Delhi's population (18 million) is more than that of Greater Mumbai (14 million). Secondly, Delhi's per capita income is much higher than that of Mumbai. Few years back ToI reported (on the front page) that Delhi's per capita income is 43% higher than Mumbai. Also the number of millionaires in Delhi was more than Mumbai. And I quite sure that this gap has further widened after that report.

Now with smaller population and lower per capita income, how can Mumbai contribute more than Delhi. Now this can happen in two cases. Either these people include areas like Navi Mumbai etc. which lie outside Greater Mumbai for this purpose thus wrongly tilting the balance in favour of Mumbai, or Delhiites evade taxes more than Mumbaikars :D.

And believe it or not, the commercial capital tag for Mumbai is short lived (though financial capital tag would remain). If past and present is any indicator, then things are going in favour of NCR. You may like to look at these facts :

* At the time of independence, Delhi with a population of just 7 lakhs was not even recognized as the major metro (Mumbai, Kolkata and Chennai were the 3 major ones). But now Delhi is both the most populous city and the most populous metropolitan region. NCR's projected population is 64 million for 2021, much higher than Mumbai metropolitan region.

* Delhi's metro plan (413 km) is 3 times bigger than that of Mumbai (146 km). By second phase itself (2010), Delhi metro will be 190 km.

* Delhi airport's ultimate capacity (100 million +) is more than the combined ultimate capacity of existing (40 m) and Navi Mumbai airport (40 m). Besides that Delhi's second airport planned at Greater Noida (84 million) will have also have more capacity than Mumbai's two airports combined.

* Delhi has 33,000 km of roads, the largest network for any city in India and with even bigger NCR, it will be very high. NCR already has many operational and under construction expressways (Delhi-Gurgaon expy, DND flyway, Noida-Greater Noida expy, Western Peripheral expy, Taj expy, Ghaziabad-Greater Noida expy). Many are about to start like Eastern peripheral expy, Northern peripheral expy, southern peripheral expy (last both in Gurgaon), Ganga expy. Moreover there are so many planned (few by NHAI like Delhi-Dehradun, Delhi-Chandigarh, Delhi-Jaipur and recently NCR planning board came up with 15 proposed expressways in NCR).

* No. of vehicles in Delhi alone is 60 lakh, more than the combined number of Mumbai, Kolkata and Chennai and with NCR, it is 112 lakhs. No other city in this world matches this number, not even Tokyo.

* Number of flyovers in Delhi is almost twice that of Mumbai and still increasing at a faster rate.

* Area of NCR is 33,578 sq. km compared to 5-6,000 sq km for Mumbai metropolitan region (not exactly sure about Mumbai's figure), which means much more potential for Delhi.

* Talking about buses now, Delhi already has the largest fleet of public buses (DTC + bluelines) in India among all cities and by 2011, its fleet will expand to 11,000 with all the buses of low-floor category. No other city in India can even think of such a huge fleet and all low-floor buses in next 2 decades. And obviously, suburbs have also started procuring low floor and AC buses, adding to the numbers.

* I haven't included any games related infra (Asian games and CWG and maybe Olympics in future) as I feel this infra does not matters much for a citizen.

My intention is not to start any unhealthy Delhi vs Mumbai competition. I have presented these as facts and not as my beliefs or ideas. I have done so because I feel that there are a lot of widespread myths in our country, esp. about Mumbai. Most of the people feel that their city is most important or the best, but I have seen this thing most in Mumbai as people are not aware of the ground situation and start saying nasty things like 40% tax, half of rail commuters etc. How many of you were actually aware of the facts which I just presented. And remember, I am asking this to those people who are expected to be most aware of such facts beings active members of community like SSC. And what about other aam janta ? That community is even more ignorant.

I cannot blame aam janta for that. Most of the blame goes to Bollywood for projecting Mumbai in a different light altogether. For an average Indian, Mumbai is a "maya nagri" where all dreams come true coz of the hype built around it by bollywood (and because of that Mumbai attracts so many migrants :D). And BTW, for average westerner, Mumbai will be like hell after Slumdog, Another case of misrepresentation :ohno:.

I remember in one movie a girl asks an aspiring model "What are you doing in this "small town". If you want to realize your dreams, you have to go to Mumbai". And this small town was Delhi !! :D. A city bigger in area, population, income suddenly became a small town :cheers:. And aam janta would believe this coz they don't know much about either of the 2 cities.

Of course, Mumbai is very important for India but India won't stop if Mumbai (or for that matter, Delhi) stops. We need to realize this as soon as we can. Lets be more realistic rather than being chauvinistic, it's ultimately going to help us in long run.

Again I would say that I have no extra love for Delhi or any grudge against Mumbai. I am an Indian first (and you can see that from my avatar and signature :D).



And you forgot viability gap funding and the Hyderabad metro case :ohno:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_GDP

this is a list of GDP according to pricewatercoopers 2008.

Mumbai 209 billion

Delhi 167 billion

This is the original article

https://www.ukmediacentre.pwc.com/Content/Detail.asp?ReleaseID=3421&NewsAreaID=2


according to this article by 2025 that gap is only set to widen. Seriously d load to the PDF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_GDP

this is a list of GDP according to pricewatercoopers 2008.

Mumbai 209 billion

Delhi 167 billion

This is the original article

https://www.ukmediacentre.pwc.com/Content/Detail.asp?ReleaseID=3421&NewsAreaID=2


according to this article by 2025 that gap is only set to widen. Seriously d load to the PDF

In most of the cases they compare Delhi instead of NCR with Mumbai metropolitan region. Go again on wiki and see the Delhi's projected metropolitan population for 2020 or 2025. You will see the figure around 20-25 million. Again that is the Delhi city's population. Delhi's metropolitan population is 28 million as of now and that of whole NCR is more than 40 million. But because of our own govts wrong way of measuring population, Delhi scores lower in these. But at least you should know the reality :)


yh.. SInce im not tooo goood at starting threads, you wanna take the initiative??? Atleast suggest me a good name to make it sound attractive :P

How about "Wake up Sid" :lol:. It would be more like a wake-up call and myth buster. Here we can cover myths about other cities as well. But the first condition would be no dirty city vs city fights. Comparisons if made with right intention should be okay. What say ?

How about "Wake up Sid" :lol:. It would be more like a wake-up call and myth buster. Here we can cover myths about other cities as well. But the first condition would be no dirty city vs city fights. Comparisons if made with right intention should be okay. What say ?

Go ahead abhishek......Mods may again fire at me accusing me of being anit-Bangalore...so I shall refrain from debating but would love to :lurker:

I agree that line 3 should be underground but making many more lines underground will go against Mumbai itself. For fulfilling the wishes of western suburbs, many other parts of Mumbai will have to wait longer to see metro as most of the available funds will be cornered by these underground lines

the entire western side will need to be underground. Its just to dense along that side.

Land acquisitions may also be required for underground lines. Delhi metro's yellow line has a depot at surface though the line was underground. If govt has will then all these land acquisitions will not stop or delay work. How could Delhi go on building line after line in a record time and ahead of deadlines. Obviously coz of leadership from both DMRC and state govt.

Its not that simple. Mumbai is too densely populated. 2-3 times that of Delhi. The problem is even more severe on the western side. In order for an elevated line it will required to demolish legal buildings.(and illegal). The residents will goto court. They tried to clear the slums and the people went to court. you think the legal people will go down without a fight?



I am saying that both owe each other. I raised this fact only because Mumbaikars think that India owes a lot to them and India is running because of Mumbai. I am not pointing at you but this is the general belief of not just people but our stupid media as well. Just after Taj hotel attacks, ToI ran a campaign which again said that BS - Mumbai contributes 40% of taxes and blah blah. Don't you think that Mumbai is more dependent on India than vice versa. Imagine India without Mumbai. India will lose just 4% of GDP. But what about Mumbai ? It won't be even able to have its own air force or navy. Not just for Mumbai, this is applicable to any other city.


what about singapore and hong kong then? they made it work. Again i am never stating Mumbai separate from india. Not even the mns or sena will say that. I personally feel the rest of India takes mumbai for granted. I thought we established that for whatever reason 40% of tax is collected in india be it via corporate or otherwise?


come on. If Kandla has a population equal to a suburb of Mumbai, then also Kandla should get more money than Mumbai because it is generating revenues, even if it does not needs it. If Kandla has surplus revenue then does it means its money should not be given to those areas which need more (say, Ahmedabad or Mumbai) and instead Kandla's roads should be laid with gold because Kandla has generated that money ?Kandla should receive money on the basis of its real needs rather than based on the revenues it generates.

thats exactly what i am saying. Needs according should be enough to serve the population. At present the current mumbai infra is just not enough to support 21 million people. Investment is needed. We dont have ideal infra


What I have read is that Delhi NCR region attracts most FDI. See here (http://www.orissadiary.com/ShowBussinessNews.asp?id=3555).


This is my link
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/43090/karnataka-stands-3rd-fdi-inflows.html

Karnataka stands 3rd for FDI inflows in India after Maharashtra ,Gujarat.Among states Maharashtra took top position at US$12,409.20 million with 45.44 per cent share and Gujarat second spot at $2,825.80 million with 10.35 per cent share. Rightfully, the flow of foreign investment shows inclination towards states with investor friendly business environment. As a result, it notes, that six top states (Maharashtra, Gujarat, Karnataka, New Delhi, Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh), together attracted about 81 per cent of total FDI during fiscal year 2009.

24th Dec 2009.

The link is not working :ohno:. And I cannot believe that 6 million are employed in public sector. This seems to be gross miscalculation. If one person from a family is employed in govt sector that means 6 million households or roughly 24 million of population. Do you want to say that 24 million people are directly or indirectly dependent on govt sector ? That was a nasty joke :lol:


Economic survey of Delhi 2008-2009. Page 74. I have given you my link from the delhi gov website. You are free to download it yourself. Its free. Just google search it. thats what the report says. It maybe due to the fact that many people dont live in NCR,. but are employed there. Like the pop of manhatten swells during the day but the actual number of residents is low. Not everything is clean cut. Go though the link.



That's again your belief that underground is free from all this and elevated will create so much of trouble. When Delhi can do it peacefully and successfully, then I can see a hope for Mumbai as well. Again it depends on leadership than the ground condition.

many studies have recommended an underground line for the western suberbs. I reiterate for the 3rd line only. That cant be built above ground

In most of the cases they compare Delhi instead of NCR with Mumbai metropolitan region. Go again on wiki and see the Delhi's projected metropolitan population for 2020 or 2025. You will see the figure around 20-25 million. Again that is the Delhi city's population. Delhi's metropolitan population is 28 million as of now and that of whole NCR is more than 40 million. But because of our own govts wrong way of measuring population, Delhi scores lower in these. But at least you should know the reality :)

have you even bothered to download the actual PDF? They have taken the NCR pop of 19million

It comes out to 167 for the NCR

209 for Mumbai metro

IMHO Mumbai and Delhi are one of the biggest cities not only in India but in the world. They both deserve excellent infrastructure.

I also understand that Mumbai people when see that Delhi is having the goodies but they don't, they tend to blame Delhi and it being a national capital etc etc etc. But I think that is not secondary to any partial attitude towards any specific metropolitan area but it is secondary to administration. Mumbai's administration is sloppy and most of the Mumbai administration as mentioned correctly by someone are not representatives from Mumbai. I studied in Aurangabad and I have seen the difference between Marathwada, Vidharba and Rest of Maharashtra. I believe the division of the state would benefit all the areas.

I totally support Mumbai's infrastructure but I also recognize the space limitations of Mumbai. Mumbai has very little space to expand and mix it with poor administration, you get a deadly mix. What I want to say is Mumbai not getting what it wants and deserves is not secondary to bureaucracy but local leadership. I'm sure Delhi projects deal with similar bureaucracy as Mumbai projects do, it is the will in political leadership which makes the difference.

Mumbai contributes to the nation as it is capable of and so does Delhi....

I have read some rather disturbing comments about Mumbai having rights over oil and Mumbai being responsible for freight traffic....these are plain ridiculous comments and just reflects on the sickness of the person who posted those comments. If the whole of India does not consume and pay for the goods the freight coming from Mumbai will be of no use.

I do believe that underground metro is the answer to Mumbai's problems in the long run. Although it will cost more but given the high congestion, I would like to take some of the population underground to decongest Mumbai :lol:

But in the same breath I would like to say that I do not see that happening given the lack of political will not only in pushing for the projects and harnessing finances but also local factors like land acquisition. Mumbai has been dealing with slum rehab for almost 3-4 decades now and has not been able to reach a consensus and that is being driven by vote bank.

Just my 2 cents...

It maybe due to the fact that many people dont live in NCR,. but are employed there. Like the pop of manhatten swells during the day but the actual number of residents is low. Not everything is clean cut. Go though the link.


Naah... Do yo believe that transport system is so good in India that people will daily commute from outside NCR (i.e., from Gwalior, Agra, Chandigarh, Jaipur) to NCR for work. Sometimes it's painful to even commute from Delhi to adjoining suburb, forget about coming from outside NCR. Believe me, 6 million cannot be true at all. It's far from reality !!

have you even bothered to download the actual PDF? They have taken the NCR pop of 19million

It comes out to 167 for the NCR

209 for Mumbai metro


:nuts: It seems that my whole night will go in shattering myths :lol:. What if I prove these figures (NCR figure) wrong by WIDE margin ? Will I get some prize in return ?? :crazy:

I think we REALLY need to start this myth buster thread. And please believe in yourself more than these morons. I have myself calculated the population of NCR by consulting different govt. websites and census figures. Give me some time. See you in Chaibar :).

How about "Wake up Sid" :lol:. It would be more like a wake-up call and myth buster. Here we can cover myths about other cities as well. But the first condition would be no dirty city vs city fights. Comparisons if made with right intention should be okay. What say ?

please continue this discussion in this thread ::: Isit fair for Mumbai {& other Metros} to seek more help from the centre ? (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=49394649#post49394649)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_populous_cities_in_India

This is population of cities alone.(greater mumbai and new delhi)

This is population of Metropolitan areas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_populous_metropolitan_areas_in_India


The NCR pop at the most in urban agglomeration is 22.8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agglomeration

can you provide links for the 40 million pop stat?

Go ahead abhishek......Mods may again fire at me accusing me of being anit-Bangalore...so I shall refrain from debating but would love to :lurker:

:lol: Don't worry gangster. I'll do it.

lets move to the chai bar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_populous_cities_in_India

This is population of cities alone.(greater mumbai and new delhi)

This is population of Metropolitan areas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_populous_metropolitan_areas_in_India


The NCR pop at the most in urban agglomeration is 22.8

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agglomeration

can you provide links for the 40 million pop stat?

:lol: :lol:

You got yourself busted here dude.

Now here are the OFFICIAL CENSUS 2001 figures. Now for God's sake don't doubt these figures, I beg you ;)

Wikipedia says Delhi population in 2001 census is 9,879,172 from the link you provided.

Now here (http://www.delhi.gov.in/wps/wcm/connect/doit_des/DES/Home/Census/Census+2001/) are the census figures of Delhi. This is Delhi govt website. It says Delhi's 2001 population is 13850507. It gives the population figures of all colonies of Delhi. Scroll till end to see the total figure.

Now admit that your sources are BS :)

Now wait till I dig recent population figures for you for Delhi :)

move this to the chaibar I will respond in kind

plus it seems your FDI link on Delhi was BS right?

http://www.orissadiary.com/ShowBussinessNews.asp?id=3555



assocham has given this figure, hands down i'll take this as anyone working in corporate will no that assochams figures are taken into considerations seriously.

and great post Mr. Mittal.FDK...well explained

Thanks IR

Abhishek, your stats support why Mumbai Metro should go underground in most of the parts

Mumbai has planned about 150 km of Metro against 350 odd kms in Delhi. And this is not without reason; the geography and density of Mumbai is such that it can be covered by limited network. So, cant we have underground to ease the congestion and avoid demolitions now that we require only limited number of lines, even if its three times costlier.

And contrary to the perception of many outsiders, the suburbs of Mumbai are not similar to that of the suburbs in other cities. It is as dense as the main city, if not more and is denser than core parts of many other cities. And by no way, I am comparing Mumbai with other cities. It is just to emphasize why Mumbai needs underground.

Delhi, Chennai, Kolkata and Bangalore (to an extent) are going underground in dense areas.

Abhishek, your stats support why Mumbai Metro should go underground in most of the parts

Mumbai has planned about 150 km of Metro against 350 odd kms in Delhi. And this is not without reason; the geography and density of Mumbai is such that it can be covered by limited network. So, cant we have underground to ease the congestion and avoid demolitions now that we require only limited number of lines, even if its three times costlier.

And contrary to the perception of many outsiders, the suburbs of Mumbai are not similar to that of the suburbs in other cities. It is as dense as the main city, if not more and is denser than core parts of many other cities. And by no way, I am comparing Mumbai with other cities. It is just to emphasize why Mumbai needs underground.

Delhi, Chennai, Kolkata and Bangalore (to an extent) are going underground in dense areas.

I already said that money is limited everywhere, whether it's India or USA. Now you have the option to make 100 km of underground lines within Mumbai or build 300 km of elevated lines covering Navi Mumbai, Thane, Kalyan etc.

IIT report slams MMRDA, says Mumbai needs underground metro


Mumbai: Mumbai needs an underground metro instead of an elevated one. Advocated by a number of citizen groups, this opinion now has the backing of the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT), Powai.

A report of the civil engineering department of the IIT says the elevated metro has no expansion potential. It also slams the Mumbai Metropolitan Regional Development Authority (MMRDA) for planning the metro in a haphazard way. It says the authority has taken no initiative to address the city's complex transportation issue in a comprehensive way.

"A viability study for the possibility of an underground metro was never considered. The decision to pursue with an elevated metro is thus taken arbitrarily without any comprehensive evaluation," says the report, adding the consultants were not given a proper brief.

The report -- a copy of which is with DNA -- was prepared by SL Dhingra, an expert in transportation system engineering at the IIT. "The elevated metro plan for Mumbai's suburbs has no future expansion potential. This factor is detrimental to the planning and implementation of any public service, particularly for transportation," the report says.
Backing the underground metro, the report further says that it can, at any time, expand with additional routes and directions.

It thus has the scope to deal with future needs and demands. Criticising MMRDA for discriminating against Mumbaikars staying in the suburbs, the report says, "It is a known fact that the density in suburbs is equal to, and even higher than, most parts of the city. The volume of construction is higher due to factors like TDR use, SRA projects and growing slums.''

The report ends with questioning the intentions of the state government as well. "If the government really does care for the public and wants to solve the future problems of mass transport, it must go for an underground metro for the whole length."

The report also lends support to the stand of many citizen groups in the city. All major cities of the world like New York, London and Paris have underground metros, says Vijay Barve, member of a citizen group in Linking Road, Bandra. The administrators of Mumbai are being backward by constructing an elevated metro, he adds.
http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_iit-report-slams-mmrda-says-mumbai-needs-underground-metro_1323460

Why can't the elevated lines extended into suburbs ? In Delhi also, all the three lines which are going into suburbs in Phase-II are elevated (and extensions of elevated lines) and so is in the next 2 phases.

Why can't the elevated lines extended into suburbs ? In Delhi also, all the three lines which are going into suburbs in Phase-II are elevated (and extensions of elevated lines) and so is in the next 2 phases.

ask SL Dhingra

the details can be found on his home page

http://www.civil.iitb.ac.in/~dhingra/

edit

infact i have have emailed the IITB civil faculty to take part in this discussion. Asking for Mr Dhingra's input in this thread.

help@civil.iitb.ac.in

lets see what the response is.

ask SL Dhingra

the details can be found on his home page

http://www.civil.iitb.ac.in/~dhingra/

edit

infact i have have emailed the IITB civil faculty to take part in this discussion. Asking for Mr Dhingra's input in this thread.

help@civil.iitb.ac.in

lets see what the response is.

ehehehe...bas bas bhailogo basssss :bash:


kuch bhi banao, underground ya elevated but banao :nuts:




kuch to banao...me gone mad:banana:

rofl rofl

ask SL Dhingra

the details can be found on his home page

http://www.civil.iitb.ac.in/~dhingra/

edit

infact i have have emailed the IITB civil faculty to take part in this discussion. Asking for Mr Dhingra's input in this thread.

help@civil.iitb.ac.in

lets see what the response is.


bhaijaan why should i ask Mr. Dhingra..are you the contractor or do you think i am the Shiv Sena or MNS man.

yaar metro is metro may it be underground or elevated, purpose is one..that is solving commuters nightmare's and eradicating the issues faced.

bhaijaan why should i ask Mr. Dhingra..are you the contractor or do you think i am the Shiv Sena or MNS man.

yaar metro is metro may it be underground or elevated, purpose is one..that is solving commuters nightmare's and eradicating the issues faced.

but bro

wont it be good if we get one point of view from an expert on this forum?

Ofcourse everybody is free to have different views...I am sure many other experts will be there who say elavated is the right way forward.

Why can't the elevated lines extended into suburbs ? In Delhi also, all the three lines which are going into suburbs in Phase-II are elevated (and extensions of elevated lines) and so is in the next 2 phases.

abhishek, as someone else mentioned, the Mumbai suburbs are as dense as the areas in the city - 'suburb' is a misnomer for these areas - in fact, i would argue that the heart of the city has moved much further north than before.

abhishek, as someone else mentioned, the Mumbai suburbs are as dense as the areas in the city - 'suburb' is a misnomer for these areas - in fact, i would argue that the heart of the city has moved much further north than before.

not as dense , but MUCH more .Infact these "suburbs" are no longer suburbs in the true sense .Its a one big spread of urbanity .

abhishek, as someone else mentioned, the Mumbai suburbs are as dense as the areas in the city - 'suburb' is a misnomer for these areas - in fact, i would argue that the heart of the city has moved much further north than before.

not as dense , but MUCH more .Infact these "suburbs" are no longer suburbs in the true sense .Its a one big spread of urbanity .

By suburbs I mean Thane, Navi Mumbai etc. The suburbs within Greater Mumbai are actually no more suburbs being governed by same municipal corp. He said the elevated lines have no future expansion scope. That makes me wonder why. Building elevated lines within the city will be a challenge but how is extending into suburbs difficult. Aren't suburbs less dense than Greater Mumbai ?

thane and new bombay are not bombay's suburbs, they are seperate entities within the mmr

the suburbs as we call them here are places like bandra, andheri, ghatkopar, kurla, vikhroli, etc

if you agree that underground is needed for bombay's suburbs and not for new bombay etc then the last few pages were a bit pointless

By suburbs I mean Thane, Navi Mumbai etc. The suburbs within Greater Mumbai are actually no more suburbs being governed by same municipal corp. He said the elevated lines have no future expansion scope. That makes me wonder why. Building elevated lines within the city will be a challenge but how is extending into suburbs difficult. Aren't suburbs less dense than Greater Mumbai ?

oh no ,, When we say suburbs , it means mean Bandra to Dahisar on thhe western side, Kurla to MUlund on eastern side. Thane & Navi Mumbai arent . These are designated as cities with Municipal corps of their own .

I agreed only for South Mumbai then. But if forumers, who are well aware of Mumbai's geography, believe that western suburbs also need underground, then I have to support them :cheers:.

BTW, I also know that in Mumbai, these areas are known as suburbs. But actually these were suburbs when Greater Mumbai was not a single city. These are suburbs with respect to South Mumbai, which itself is now just a small part of the larger city. Technically a suburb means outside the main city but we still continue to call the inner regions as suburbs.

I agreed only for South Mumbai then. But if forumers, who are well aware of Mumbai's geography, believe that western suburbs also need underground, then I have to support them :cheers:.

BTW, I also know that in Mumbai, these areas are known as suburbs. But actually these were suburbs when Greater Mumbai was not a single city. These are suburbs with respect to South Mumbai, which itself is now just a small part of the larger city. Technically a suburb means outside the main city but we still continue to call the inner regions as suburbs.

saala bekaar me jhagda to nahi kiye humlog ?????

[B]


Master Plan
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2181/mumbaimetro1kh5.jpg


..
South mumbai ends at Dadar , Worli , Wadala etc . The red line in this map which is proposed route of phase II can also be considered as a limit of South Mumbai for illustrative purpose .

saala bekaar me jhagda to nahi kiye humlog ?????


..
South mumbai ends at Dadar , Worli , Wadala etc . The red line in this map which is proposed route of phase II can also be considered as a limit of South Mumbai for illustrative purpose .

Bhai ye sab to pata hai mujhe !! 5 mahine se Mumbai forum pe hu, itna to pata hi hoga yar :lol:

Aur wo sab jhagda nahi tha yar, that was a flow of thoughts :lol:

Bhai ye sab to pata hai mujhe !! 5 mahine se Mumbai forum pe hu, itna to pata hi hoga yar :lol:

Aur wo sab jhagda nahi tha yar, that was a flow of thoughts :lol:

ab naya confusion paida na ho jaye based on geography, isiliye confirmation ke likh diya ...

Anyways , the Bandra-Charkop corridor mentioned in red are the " Western suburbs" which are the most densely populated & congested urban are . Thats where we beleive an underground metro is the need.

ab naya confusion paida na ho jaye based on geography, isiliye confirmation ke likh diya ...

Anyways , the Bandra-Charkop corridor mentioned in red are the " Western suburbs" which are the most densely populated & congested urban are . Thats where we beleive an underground metro is the need.

Ye bhi mujhe pata tha :lol:. Yar mujhe underestimate kar rahe ho tum log :(

Ye bhi mujhe pata tha :lol:. Yar mujhe underestimate kar rahe ho tum log :(

woh job blue mein hai , woh samandar hai ,, usme hum sab dubki marenge

woh job blue mein hai , woh samandar hai ,, usme hum sab dubki marenge

:lol:

Aisey ??

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3276/78674563.jpg

whoa !! so much hungama about delhi vs mumbai while i was away. as i have lived in both cities for at least one year (much more in mumbai actually) i think i am entitled for my take -

delhi and mumbai are two cities whose futures are entwined with each other like no two cities of india or the world. they are rapidly developing into a kind of twin cities separated by more than a thousand kilometers. the number of daily flights and trains are a solid testimony to that. and please do not attribute this traffic to "delhi/mumbai babus". we all know these lazy asses do not travel that much. both cities have their strength but delhi is inexorably becoming the one calling shots. and delhi metro is not the only reason. delhi's rise stared much before that. A901 has rightly pointed out that at the time of independence it was just a bit more than a mofussil town intended to house whiskey sipping british civil servants.

its growth is nothing less than meteoric. much of the early credit goes to the hard working settlers from pakistan .. thank you so much all the sardarjis !! but the growth of the last 2 decades defy even the stereotype of the "punjab da puttar". this new delhi (pun unintended) owes its growth more to the hindi belt than to any other area. some may endlessly debate that but mumbaikars plz note the implication of shutting 'bhaiyyas' out of mumbai. i wouldn't try to shut anybody out if i want my city to become a crackling, buzzing, living, pulsating, electric, supercharged dynamo. any sympathizers of that slimeball thackrey family here listening ?

OK coming to the trends ... as far as i remember "India Today" (the magazine) was the first to notice this new delhi (pun unintended again) .. they carried a piece about India's new El Do Rado about 17-18 years back. at that time the common wisdom was that delhi is a overgrown village but mumbai is a cosmopolitan city and thats the way it will remain ... no doubt the song "yeh hai mumbai nagariya" was responsible for much of this ... the trend has only accelerated in the years since and is accelerating the acceleration too

and to my mind it seems like history turning back to itself. for most of its (and its mother country - india's) history, delhi has been THE most important city of the world. as the stature of india grows so will delhi's stature grow in the outside world and even more so within the 'indian world'. i cannot hide my pride as i say this !!

so the folks who never tire of saying that mumbai contributes X% of india's revenue should brace themsleves for the time when this X reduces to Y ... if delhi wallahs start rubbing it in by asking the opposite what would you do ? but i know that will never happen coz that is not the way delhi works. it doesn't see itself as a provincial town but keeps its heart open ... i am not just being poetic when i say this. no other city housed the displaced of partition as much as delhi. no other city today offers jobs to rest of indians as much as delhi ... and all this without any thackrey thugs taking root in the city. mumbai allowed this thugee to take root as far back as 1960s. and that comparison should open up the eyes of many.

You put that rather nicely nirax.


Hopefully , the SSC-I brigade can get back to topic now.

Unlike Delhi, there are no wide boulevards in the Mumbai "suburbs."
Maybe, WEH and EEH are wide enough but BRTS is already coming there.

Even Thane areas are extremely dense and unsuitable for overhead metro.
The real wide roads with sizeable medians are only in Navi Mumbai.

Thankfully, we all realized that the discussion was meaningless!!!

Unlike Delhi, there are no wide boulevards in the Mumbai "suburbs."
Maybe, WEH and EEH are wide enough but BRTS is already coming there.

Even Thane areas are extremely dense and unsuitable for overhead metro.
The real wide roads with sizeable medians are only in Navi Mumbai.

Thankfully, we all realized that the discussion was meaningless!!!


thane has enough space.

but the metro is not being built to thane...

thane has enough space.

but the metro is not being built to thane...

What happened to Thane circular metro ?

whoa !! so much hungama about delhi vs mumbai while i was away. as i have lived in both cities for at least one year (much more in mumbai actually) i think i am entitled for my take -

delhi and mumbai are two cities whose futures are entwined with each other like no two cities of india or the world. they are rapidly developing into a kind of twin cities separated by more than a thousand kilometers. the number of daily flights and trains are a solid testimony to that. and please do not attribute this traffic to "delhi/mumbai babus". we all know these lazy asses do not travel that much. both cities have their strength but delhi is inexorably becoming the one calling shots. and delhi metro is not the only reason. delhi's rise stared much before that. A901 has rightly pointed out that at the time of independence it was just a bit more than a mofussil town intended to house whiskey sipping british civil servants.

its growth is nothing less than meteoric. much of the early credit goes to the hard working settlers from pakistan .. thank you so much all the sardarjis !! but the growth of the last 2 decades defy even the stereotype of the "punjab da puttar". this new delhi (pun unintended) owes its growth more to the hindi belt than to any other area. some may endlessly debate that but mumbaikars plz note the implication of shutting 'bhaiyyas' out of mumbai. i wouldn't try to shut anybody out if i want my city to become a crackling, buzzing, living, pulsating, electric, supercharged dynamo. any sympathizers of that slimeball thackrey family here listening ?

OK coming to the trends ... as far as i remember "India Today" (the magazine) was the first to notice this new delhi (pun unintended again) .. they carried a piece about India's new El Do Rado about 17-18 years back. at that time the common wisdom was that delhi is a overgrown village but mumbai is a cosmopolitan city and thats the way it will remain ... no doubt the song "yeh hai mumbai nagariya" was responsible for much of this ... the trend has only accelerated in the years since and is accelerating the acceleration too

and to my mind it seems like history turning back to itself. for most of its (and its mother country - india's) history, delhi has been THE most important city of the world. as the stature of india grows so will delhi's stature grow in the outside world and even more so within the 'indian world'. i cannot hide my pride as i say this !!

so the folks who never tire of saying that mumbai contributes X% of india's revenue should brace themsleves for the time when this X reduces to Y ... if delhi wallahs start rubbing it in by asking the opposite what would you do ? but i know that will never happen coz that is not the way delhi works. it doesn't see itself as a provincial town but keeps its heart open ... i am not just being poetic when i say this. no other city housed the displaced of partition as much as delhi. no other city today offers jobs to rest of indians as much as delhi ... and all this without any thackrey thugs taking root in the city. mumbai allowed this thugee to take root as far back as 1960s. and that comparison should open up the eyes of many.
No one was bragging about Mumbai being better than Delhi here. This debate took off when Abhi made a generalisation [whatever it was] in certain post, to which we took objection. But since then he clarified he meant no offense, & subsequently so did the rest of us. Hence there are no more misgivings between Mumbaikars & delhiwallahs in SSC I anymore.
The complaint against incessant migration into this city is a valid one & hence must be considered carefully by anyone without bringing the Thackeray ideology in picture.Even Cogress cheif ministers & many non-Marathi public personae have accepted the merit of this WITHOUT CONDONING THE WAYS OF THE THAKAREYS. We have already talked about the space constraints Mumbai faces & how this migration strains the further development of the city , maybe you want to read those before branding all of us as "Thackeray sympathisers" ?? for example :- We cannot expand our airports & railways even if the govt is ready to pay for the money , Why ?? coz the slums occupy the land around it & the govt of the day is always under pressure from both local & central politicians to not let go off this vote-bank.

PS : With no intentions of offending any one , & starting a flame war .

What happened to Thane circular metro ?

That was an initiative of the TMC & was floated long before the Mumbai Metro took off. It surely has nothing to do with Mumbai metro. Im not aware of linkages in the future

What happened to Thane circular metro ?

the monorail is still on in thane.

ideally they should extend the metro to thane, dont know why they dont though.

one reason is thane suburban station is soaking up the flow of people well. Even during peak hours the frequency of trains is good. With trains many trains starting from thane as well, chances are you get a seat

All the people on the eastern side really needed was the western connectivity which Bandra to mankhurd and ghatkopar to versova will provide. the journey from thane to bkc complex becomes very easy with a change at Kurla on the metro line.

Dont think anybody is fussed about the metro on the eastern side. Was talking to a few friends and they were of the same opinion. for us additional suburban lines are the order of the day.

whoa !! so much hungama about delhi vs mumbai while i was away. as i have lived in both cities for at least one year (much more in mumbai actually) i think i am entitled for my take -

delhi and mumbai are two cities whose futures are entwined with each other like no two cities of india or the world. they are rapidly developing into a kind of twin cities separated by more than a thousand kilometers. the number of daily flights and trains are a solid testimony to that. and please do not attribute this traffic to "delhi/mumbai babus". we all know these lazy asses do not travel that much. both cities have their strength but delhi is inexorably becoming the one calling shots. and delhi metro is not the only reason. delhi's rise stared much before that. A901 has rightly pointed out that at the time of independence it was just a bit more than a mofussil town intended to house whiskey sipping british civil servants.

its growth is nothing less than meteoric. much of the early credit goes to the hard working settlers from pakistan .. thank you so much all the sardarjis !! but the growth of the last 2 decades defy even the stereotype of the "punjab da puttar". this new delhi (pun unintended) owes its growth more to the hindi belt than to any other area. some may endlessly debate that but mumbaikars plz note the implication of shutting 'bhaiyyas' out of mumbai. i wouldn't try to shut anybody out if i want my city to become a crackling, buzzing, living, pulsating, electric, supercharged dynamo. any sympathizers of that slimeball thackrey family here listening ?

OK coming to the trends ... as far as i remember "India Today" (the magazine) was the first to notice this new delhi (pun unintended again) .. they carried a piece about India's new El Do Rado about 17-18 years back. at that time the common wisdom was that delhi is a overgrown village but mumbai is a cosmopolitan city and thats the way it will remain ... no doubt the song "yeh hai mumbai nagariya" was responsible for much of this ... the trend has only accelerated in the years since and is accelerating the acceleration too

and to my mind it seems like history turning back to itself. for most of its (and its mother country - india's) history, delhi has been THE most important city of the world. as the stature of india grows so will delhi's stature grow in the outside world and even more so within the 'indian world'. i cannot hide my pride as i say this !!

so the folks who never tire of saying that mumbai contributes X% of india's revenue should brace themsleves for the time when this X reduces to Y ... if delhi wallahs start rubbing it in by asking the opposite what would you do ? but i know that will never happen coz that is not the way delhi works. it doesn't see itself as a provincial town but keeps its heart open ... i am not just being poetic when i say this. no other city housed the displaced of partition as much as delhi. no other city today offers jobs to rest of indians as much as delhi ... and all this without any thackrey thugs taking root in the city. mumbai allowed this thugee to take root as far back as 1960s. and that comparison should open up the eyes of many.
what 'Delhi owes it rise to Pakistani refugees ' of partition.what nonsense . get your facts right. and its not that Delhi 'embraced' these people. it was Nehru who unjustly gave away land to these people what is now the prime areas of south delhi, one of the most expensive places in the world. and these guys and their children have paid back by making more black money and running over their luxury cars over poor/ original settlers. have not only ruined the whole ethos of the city. but have grabbed most of the land mafia sector in the garb of estate developers.

i think delhi owes most to the supreme court, fact that it is a city-state and not subsidising a large rural area, central funds and the fact that the GoI has centred its bids for multi-sports events around delhi only. give these conditions to any indian city and you will see a similar result

Can we resist the urge to post more unrelated BS and get back on topic ...pretty please ? ....Happy new year to all you guys !

when nehru 'gave away' (as you put it) the prime land of south delhi, it was not prime at all. it was these poeple who made it prime.

anyway let us get back to the stated aim of this thread. i would stop with noting a postscript --

PS : before talking of 'unjust' nehru it would do anybody a lot of good to find somone more (or equally) capable than him ... or somebody more responsible for wahtever good that post independence india has. personally it irritates me no end .. much more than any delhi/mumbai facile debate. i wouldn't say that india would slip into anarchy if nehru was not around, but a nehru-less india would be different from current india and somewhat less desirable too.

i think delhi owes most to the supreme court, fact that it is a city-state and not subsidising a large rural area, central funds and the fact that the GoI has centred its bids for multi-sports events around delhi only. give these conditions to any indian city and you will see a similar result

aahh here you are Bombay Boy...back to your nonsense talks.....ehrrrr:bash:

bro don't you get bored of rubbing this lamp of central funding again and again and again...with that unlikable arrogance ...i get bored of you ehh

i've already given the proofs of equall funding to both cities in previous posts, so stop this ha

you didnt really prove anything as far as i could see

anyways, moving on...

you didnt really prove anything as far as i could see

anyways, moving on...

boy, how many times do you you want me or others to prove you all these stats again and again...even i am tired of it...

nirax ne achcha samjhaya hai...try to understand what he said and for god sake come out of your perceptions about delhi.

ENOUGH OF THIS TALK

THERE IS A THREAD IN THE CHAIBAR!! USE THAT!!!!

METRO TALK ONLY

BOTH MUMBAI AND DELHI ARE GROWING AT A GOOD RATE!! LETS BE HAPPY WITH THAT!!!

yaar kitti faltu gall ho gayi .. koi photo shoto ho jaye ?

i have to admit bombay boy is hilarious ... any city owing development to supreme court ... i will fall down :D :D :D

yaar kitti faltu gall ho gayi .. koi photo shoto ho jaye ?

i have to admit bombay boy is hilarious ... any city owing development to supreme court ... i will fall down :D :D :D

oh yeah he is....or rather he usually is...hahaha....waise its always good to have some funny moments in tense talks .

i have to admit bombay boy is hilarious ... any city owing development to supreme court ... i will fall down :D :D :D

shifting old industries outside, banning old buses and taxis, bringing down pollution, forcing authorities to practice best practices in lots of areas

really, all you need to educate yourself is to read some newspapers

shifting old industries outside, banning old buses and taxis, bringing down pollution, forcing authorities to practice best practices in lots of areas

really, all you need to educate yourself is to read some newspapers


ok you mean to say Delhi CM is fool, "Uneducated" and she does everything only whenever supreme court asks her to???? is that....

oh by this means yamuna should have bettered River Thames, as SC also forced them to do dis.

and Dude about education , you need some , why?? let me tell you..
SC acts or pass the verdict whenever there's a petition filed and that applies for whole INDIA and not only Delhi.....

is that good enough and simple education about our SC functioning

lol

yaar kitti faltu gall ho gayi .. koi photo shoto ho jaye ?


+1. Where is Coolguyz, our Mumbai metroman :D

SC acts or pass the verdict whenever there's a petition filed and that applies for whole INDIA and not only Delhi.....

is that good enough and simple education about our SC functioning

:|

simple. yes

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4746/navimumbaimetro.jpg

Source -HT

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2520/metrocrisscross.jpg

the first line is not 51.79 km in bombay. more like 11

yaar kitti faltu gall ho gayi .. koi photo shoto ho jaye ?
:D
had posted some photos earlier in this thread on the work going on at jb nagar
link:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=451426&page=78

Found this on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_Metro

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3085/800pxmumbaimetro.jpg

Found this on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_Metro

IMG http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3085/800pxmumbaimetro.jpg /IMG


i looked at the edit history of that article. the photo was added by Gocam without any references. i am loath to believe it, though it may be true.

from where did he get this drawing ? reminds me of my own Undergrad days

Found this on wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_Metro

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/3085/800pxmumbaimetro.jpg

This is Delhi metro's Mitsubishi-Rotem coach's sketch.

On Target! These are DEL Metro's coaches. Everything from the lights to the windows to the Shape, its the same.

its clear from the sketch it shows

LAYOUT OF DM-CAR


DM= Delhi Metro

:delete:

its clear from the sketch it shows

LAYOUT OF DM-CAR


DM= Delhi Metro

Could be DM = Driving Motor as well. :lol:

Could be DM = Driving Motor as well. :lol:

:lol:

I don't think there is anything like driving motor. It is either driver car or motor car.

Could be DM = Driving Motor as well. :lol:

oh yeah well......however this is Delhi Mtero for sure...:)

:lol:

I don't think there is anything like driving motor. It is either driver car or motor car.

"Driving Motor Car" is a legit term.

I don't think the design is unique to Delhi Metro.

"Driving Motor Car" is a legit term.

Can't say about other metros but Delhi metro uses Driver car and Motor car for its cars. Even its cars are numbered like that. Like a driver car will be numbered like D116, while a motor car will be numbered like M116.

I don't think the design is unique to Delhi Metro.

I hope this comparison helps

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9771/83848605.png


http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/623/del01.jpg



Being a regular commuter of Delhi metro, I can say rest all configuration is also of that of Delhi metro. I haven't seen two different metros running exactly same trains. There are at least some subtle differences. So, the probability of Mumbai getting exactly same coaches is close to zero. Also I think Mumbai metro's coaches are being procured from China. Delhi metro's trains are Korean and the manufacturer was Mitsubishi-Rotem. No chance of being exactly same.

yes usually things like metro are customized by the operators so hardly any of them are alike to one another.

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2520/metrocrisscross.jpg

i am not talking just about metro, but in general, you see that the central indian cities, which can potentially prove to be the best transportation hubs have long been neglected. and continue to get the least number of infrastructure and other projects when compared to cities of similar size and business environment.

i am not talking just about metro, but in general, you see that the central indian cities, which can potentially prove to be the best transportation hubs have long been neglected. and continue to get the least number of infrastructure and other projects when compared to cities of similar size and business environment.

nagpur with the mihan is progressing very well with wide roads and efficient bus network.

Bhopal and Indore yes i agree with you

Can't say about other metros but Delhi metro uses Driver car and Motor car for its cars. Even its cars are numbered like that. Like a driver car will be numbered like D116, while a motor car will be numbered like M116.



I hope this comparison helps

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9771/83848605.png


http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/623/del01.jpg



Being a regular commuter of Delhi metro, I can say rest all configuration is also of that of Delhi metro. I haven't seen two different metros running exactly same trains. There are at least some subtle differences. So, the probability of Mumbai getting exactly same coaches is close to zero. Also I think Mumbai metro's coaches are being procured from China. Delhi metro's trains are Korean and the manufacturer was Mitsubishi-Rotem. No chance of being exactly same.

I'm not disputing anything above.

I'm just saying "Driving Motor Car" is a legit term.

There are other metros in the world that have rolling stock similar to that of Delhi Metro. That's all I am saying.

MUMBAI: If MMRDA's plans go right, Mumbai will get shorter. Parallel to the Mumbai Trans-Harbour Link, the government agency plans to have a Metro corridor to bridge the distance between Navi Mumbai's residential nodes and south Mumbai. Officials say the addition of Metro tracks would bring travel time along the 22-km route down to 35 minutes.

"We are planning a Metro over the sea, along the road corridor, and the project cost will now exceed Rs 8,000 crore
instead of the earlier estimated cost of Rs 6,000 crore," a MMRDA official said.

According to the officials, the new design and the proposal would later be forwarded to the state cabinet for approval; once the plan gets the go-ahead, the tendering process would start. The MMRDA had earlier planned a suburban railway track along the corridor but synchronisation was a difficult task as the Maharashtra State Road Development Corporation (MSRDC) was implementing the sea-link part of the Eastern Freeway, an official said. "However now, that we are handling the sea-link part as well, it will be easier for us to deal with the project," the MMRDA official said.

Earlier, the project, which was estimated to cost over Rs 6,000 crore, had been bid for twice. Initially, it was marred by a clash between two Ambani brothers followed by no response to the second bid due to global economic slowdown. The new Metro corridor will reach Belapur where it would meet the proposed Mankhurd-Panvel Metro Corridor. On Sewri side, the Metro would be attached to third Colaba-Bandra-Airport Metro line at Prabhadevi.

The MMRDA also plans to implement this project on a public-private partnership (PPP) model, like it is being done in case of the ongoing work of the first line of the Metro, between Versova and Ghatkopar via Andheri. Similar work is poised to start between Charkop and Mankhurd via Bandra, for which Reliance Infrastructure has been appointed as the implementing agency. The tendering of the third Metro line (Colaba to Airport via Bandra) is yet to begin as the consultant's report on its financial feasibility is still awaited. The sea link will be synchronized with the upcoming Eastern and Western Freeways and the existing Western and Eastern Express Highways.

"We felt the need of this planning due to upcoming the special economic zones and the Navi Mumbai airport. The line will be futuristic and can be extended up to Thane, Alibaug and Virar in future," said the source. The project was first envisaged and recommended by then leading business tycoons like, JRD Tata and Dhirubhai Ambani.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/Proposed-Metro-over-sea-will-cover-22-km-in-35-mins/articleshow/5368117.cms


XXXXX

when was the extension to the airport announced?

God knows what they are doing.

I've heard that one before. Last couple of times they've referred to the Colaba-Bandra line as a Colaba-Bandra-Kanjurmarg line (via airport). Makes a lot more sense IMHO. Will make it even more expensive though.

This ratnakar gaikwad keeps on announcing new metro lines every day even though work on any of the line of the first phase has not been completed yet. no wonder shreedharan decided to stay away from the mumbai metro planning. but how he is gonna deal with him coz gaikwad sahib is on the cidco panel as well when dmrc and cidco decide to plan for the navimumbai metro :lol:

ok ok we need to sort this out

these are the corridors i read about

metro

versova to ghatkopar (being built with mumbai airport as one stop on the line)

Dahisar-Charkhop-Bandra-(Mankhurd/ Colaba) (to be connected with the navi mumbai suberban railway and metro which is going to be constructed soon via mankhurd)

Andheri to Dahisar

Mulund-Ghatkopar-Fort(south mumbai) maybe also a monorail not decided yet.

prabhadevi to sweri- (the sweri metro line will be extended across the Trans harbour link to lead into navi mumbai area and connect to the navi mumbai metro which will further connect to thane and other areas as well)

Now this is the monorail.

Building the Jacob circle-Wadala-Chembar via mahul (i read that will line will be connected to the ghatkopar fort line if monorail implemented there)

Thane Biwandi kalyan

Borivali mulund monorail included as a package with thane monorail

Kanjurmarg-to Bandra kurla complex via Airport.

Malabar hill to BKC

A separate monorail corridor running along BKC (could also be a tram)

Mumbai metro Master Plan


http://www.mmrdamumbai.org/images/Mumbai_Metro_Plan.gif

*this includes BKC to kangurmarg via airport

Ichy ,these are the metro lines proposed and the cost required for these projects i had posted earlier in the thread

Charkop - Dahisar(cost1,690 crore)
Ghatkopar - Mulund(cost 2790 crore)
Hutatma chowk to Ghatkopar (cost 8,050 crore)
Bkc-Kanjurmarg via airport(underground) (5312 crore)
Andheri(e) - Dahisar(e)(cost 4050 crore)
Sewri to Prabhadevi(underground)(cost 2187 crore)

the mulund ghatkopar-fort line will be metro line and not monorail.

no idea bt monorail lines

Navi mumbai master plan

http://www.cidcoindia.com/CIDCO/Images/RailCorridor.gif

Out of these the Thane-Turbhe-Vashi-Nerul line is operational

The extension of that line Nerul-Belapur to Uran is being currently built.

why can`t the MMRDA just agree to make the Mumbai metro line 2 underground as per the needs and reqirements of the people after all the people are going to use it not the gov.I know that making it underground will increase the cost.

but if the MMRDA does not agree to it,people won`t allow the construction.In the end the construction will be delayed.

^^ Just hoping that elevated vs underground debate does not starts once again :lol:

Ghatkopar Station
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/eb60737d85.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/a69248ff83.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/371e27031b.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
Marol naka, Just goin off topic Holiday Inn Hotel just came up at Marol out off nowhere, didnt expect it in this area
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/298964feea.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
Airport junction
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7ba6fc0c96.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/5f925f35f7.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
Sakinaka
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/169f0a696e.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
WEH
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/2d578d1d47.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
WEH station
[img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/3ead596703.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/eea3ee1800.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

Coolguyz ...petla aahes tu aaj :) ...translated: "you're on fire today !" .....Its a shame the line does'nt pass closer to the airport.

i hope the stations in mumbai are more morden and innovative then delhi.

maag kay , aprateem photo aahet beedu!I think they are way behind to finish this by 2010. 2011 end might be more realistic

^^ dunno i had talked to their p.r. person on the phone she said thier deadline is for a trial run this yr end and mybe start the line start or mid nxt yr

Just saw the ghatkopar station pic . wow literally sanwiched between those two buildings.Thanks for pic btw coolguyz

^^ dunno i had talked to their p.r. person on the phone she said thier deadline is for a trial run this yr end and mybe start the line start or mid nxt yr

More appropriately next year's end.

Just saw the ghatkopar station pic . wow literally sanwiched between those two buildings.Thanks for pic btw coolguyz

Yeah. Noticed that too. Its crazy when you think that it has to offer connectivity with Ghatkopar (suburban railway) station and then act as a junction in the future when the Fort-Ghatkopar-Mulund line(s) are constructed.

Yeah. Noticed that too. Its crazy when you think that it has to offer connectivity with Ghatkopar (suburban railway) station and then act as a junction in the future when the Fort-Ghatkopar-Mulund line(s) are constructed.

I have a feeling that they will build at on the other side of the suberban station

one of the many reasons why MMRDA are thinking of a monorail along that route.

or if you use google earth and search for ghatkopar railway station, a north south line maybe build on the road inbetween the suberban station of the versova line.

and i think this is what the metro station will look like according to mmrda website

http://www.mmrdamumbai.org/images/Mumbai_Metro.gif

and looking at google earth is shaping up to the same way

Coolguyz ...petla aahes tu aaj :) ...translated: "you're on fire today !" .....Its a shame the line does'nt pass closer to the airport.

Will the line actually provide proper connectivity with the airport? Or is it simply stopping "nearby?"

^^ That conical part on roof doesn't looks good. I hope they don't add it as it doesn't provides any value as well.

Will the line actually provide proper connectivity with the airport? Or is it simply stopping "nearby?"

its not intended to provide connectivity to airport though you could take the metro from the airport station (maybe reach the station via auto or airport bus?).
it will be useless anyways since the line is only east-west. you would have to transfer to suburban trains if you are not headed to andheri or ghatkopar.

Nice pictures, Coolguyz. Pillars are rising quickly. :banana:

its not intended to provide connectivity to airport though you could take the metro from the airport station (maybe reach the station via auto or airport bus?).
it will be useless anyways since the line is only east-west. you would have to transfer to suburban trains if you are not headed to andheri or ghatkopar.

Which is why one line going from Colaba to BKC to Kanjurmarg via the airport makes a whole lot of sense. It would make the line a lot more attractive from a financial perspective too. Think about it: A line connecting the two principal CBDs in the city to the airport.

Looking in Google Earth, I don't know how recent the photos are, but it seems to me that work is barely halfway done.

They're atleast 3 months old. Quite possibly more than that.

^^ Oct 12, 2009 to be precise.

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/958/28206830.jpg

Hindustan Times

12 crores is too expensive. Delhi metro's new Bombardier coaches cost 8 crore. Despite being manufactured in China, Mumbai metro's coaches are expensive. Something seems to be wrong, maybe reporters with their usual habit.


http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/6163/87133909.jpg


http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/694/36999979.jpg

Hindustan Times

12 crores is too expensive. Delhi metro's new Bombardier coaches cost 8 crore. Despite being manufactured in China, Mumbai metro's coaches are expensive. Something seems to be wrong, maybe reporters with their usual habit.


Then China just found a reason to rip India off lol.

i still cant stop chuckling when i read the "VAG route". whether its deliberate or not, its hilarious

:lol:^^ Its a "VAG route" and the metro runs to and fro on it. :nuts: BTW great pictures Coolguyz. I cant wait to get back to mumbai and take some nice pictures. The metro runs right next to my building at 4 bunglows J P road signal :banana:

i still cant stop chuckling when i read the "VAG route". whether its deliberate or not, its hilarious

:lol:

Thank God this route is not in a tunnel, otherwise... :)

i still cant stop chuckling when i read the "VAG route". whether its deliberate or not, its hilarious

hahaha same

Metro 2

i will believe it when i see it

secondly hmm 2 million riders by 2031 seems way less..

When there is a Bombardier plant in India, then why the fcuk are they buying from China?

Mumbai IMO also has Chinese King Long buses. Are these guys so ignorant about the need for orders to Indian companies and employment to Indians?

Took these while heading up to Powai in early Jan-

in Andheri..next to the airport road -
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2893/img1038t.jpg

around marol naka/saki naka
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2140/img1113x.jpg

video -
x8zwRu4HKCA

A lot of work is left as you can see.

thanks IU! I think optimistically it will be done mid-2011.

hahaha same

Metro 2

i will believe it when i see it

secondly hmm 2 million riders by 2031 seems way less..

London Underground's ridership is 3 million for its 400 km network. How much more you expect for a 32 km line :lol:

London Underground's ridership is 3 million for its 400 km network. How much more you expect for a 32 km line :lol:

lol dude but the western suburbs probably have more population than london city
:lol:

bandra to mira road bayandar had a pop of about 6 million in 2001. By current estimates it is around 7million. Thats projected to increase to 9 million as more south mumbaikars make the relatively affordable western suberbs their home.By the time this is built it will probably have a population similar to London, which currently has a pop of 8million with various other sources of efficient transport and a relatively stable population. this is not even including the 1 million pop of Mahim and dadar which can be considered part of western for the sake of this line.

2 million is still less IMO. Currently Western railway carries about 4 million and its over capacity.

But this line is not alone to share the burden for this region. There would be 3 parallel lines (2 metro and 1 suburban) here. And suburban will continue to carry much more than the 2 metro lines combined because of its larger reach.

But this line is not alone to share the burden for this region. There would be 3 parallel lines (2 metro and 1 suburban) here. And suburban will continue to carry much more than the 2 metro lines combined because of its larger reach.

ok look

western railway carries local about 4 million people. their actual capacity max is about 2 million.(enough space to stand and all seat occupied)

the third line ya talking about ends at Andheri. I doubt will soak up much north south commuters. Only two lines go into proper downtown south mumbai.

So if the line is built then the expectation from the authorities is that 2 million will shift from the suburban to metro.

ie even with building the metro lines, demand will outstrip supply considering the parameters of population growth. The western suberban line will then be extended to Dahanu road to add more capacity to the places outside the city.

The problem is more fundamental

(a) there needs to be more offices in the western burbs which despite the Andheri office space comes very short to stop so many people travelling into town

(b) south mumbai needs to become more affordable so people dont move to the western suburbs.

Ideally we need more people come to the eastern suburbs from the west.But many consider it to be a sort of step down the ladder. the eastern side just needs the kurla to cst 5-6 suburban lines and capacity will be met.

oh damn

i am sorry i assumed this was the line going to Colaba and not BKC

in which case year 2 mill by 2031 is about right

:lol:

Mumbai Metro Test run was suppose to take place in January 2010. Any updates or news on the test run?

Perhaps you are talking about the monorail

Perhaps you are talking about the monorail

Nope, i was talking about the metro. I know the monorail is having a test run in January as well. A monorail coach is already on its way from Malaysia to India. There was a article in this thread that the metro is going to have a test run in January. any news on that?

There was a article in this thread that the metro is going to have a test run in January. any news on that?

Not happening. The coaches are still under production in China so there's still a good 2-3 or more months left for any RS test run to take place.

anyhow the CEO of REL infra - Lalit Jalan still maintains that the metro will be functional in the end of 2010 -

Mumbai Metro I is expected to be commissioned by the end of 2010, 18 months ahead of schedule, and we are waiting for signing the concession agreement for Mumbai Metro-II.
clicky (http://www.business-standard.com/india/news//r-infra-bids-for-projects30-return//381169/)

^^dont know how they are gonna complete all that work in just 12 months even if they are going to work during the monsoon .I feel when the couple of months before D-day he is just going to make a u-turn and say project will be delayed by another 4-5 months.

Mumbai: The first Metro between Versova and Ghatkopar via Andheri, to be commissioned by the year end, will be available every three minutes at all the 12 stations it will halt at. Eventually the frequency between two Metros may be
brought down to two minutes. If that happens, then this will be the shortest frequency in the country’s railway operations.
Sources in the Reliance Infrastructure-led Mumbai Metro One Pvt Ltd (MMOPL) said that the train can be run using a remote in case the driver loses control of the Metro. In case of delays or emergencies, commuters will be informed through SMSes, websites and information screens installed at the stations.
In the beginning, each train will have four coaches and will later be upgraded to a six coach one. The MMOPL has already begun the recruitment process for 65 drivers, who will run 16 trains in three different shifts.
A select team of drivers and
diploma engineers will undergo training sessions with the help of simulators brought from China. One of the key aspects of the training would be evacuation of passengers during emergencies within four minutes. The driver and commuters will be able to communicate with each other in case of an emergency. The driver’s cabin will have a black box that will record the driver’s and commuters’ conversations.
TRACKING THE PROGRESS
Training of nearly 500 staffers, including drivers, will begin shortly at Versova
Initially 65 drivers will run 16 trains in three different shifts
Railway operators and experts from France will soon arrive in the city to train Metro staffers
http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/TOIM/2010/01/18/5/Img/Pc0051800.jpg

R-Infra to get Mumbai Metro-II tomorrow (http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/r-infra-to-get-mumbai-metro-ii-tomorrow/383131/)

Anil Dhirubhai Ambani Group company Reliance Infrastructure (R-Infra) will soon be the official owner of the second phase of the Mumbai Metro project. The state government and the company would sign a concession agreement for the Rs 11,000-crore project on Thursday, according to sources.

The R-Infra consortium was the sole bidder for the project when the bid was opened in August last year. The transfer of this special purpose vehicle (SPV) to the consortium was delayed due to Assembly elections in Maharashtra, they said.

R-Infra has a 48 per cent stake in the SPV and 26 per cent each is with Reliance Communication and Canadian engineering major SNC Lavalin.

The second phase will pass through Charkhop, Bandra and Mankhurd areas, with a 32-km line. It would connect the Western and Harbour lines, areas connected by train in the city, sources said.

The first phase of the project, being constructed by a consortium of Reliance Infrastructure, connects various suburbs like Andheri, Versova and Ghatkopar. It is expected to be functional by the end of this year.

A consortium member of the company, Delhi Airport Metro Ltd, is constructing a 23-kilometre line connecting Dwarka in New Delhi to the airport.

The R-Infra consortium has been given nine months to achieve financial closure and five years therafter to complete construction of the second phase of the Mumbai Metro. The Maharashtra government will provide Rs 2,298 crore as grant or viability gap funding.

It's second line and not phase.

^^ One more mistake. Airport express is connecting Dwarka to central Delhi via airport. It says 23 km Dwarka to airport, which is just 2.5 km of the whole line.

Our lovely reporters... ugh

Well, 5 years is a long time. I hope that these guys also push to beat the deadline and finish by 2013/2014, as well as bids now opening up for Line 3 for God's sake.

When there is a Bombardier plant in India, then why the fcuk are they buying from China?

Mumbai IMO also has Chinese King Long buses. Are these guys so ignorant about the need for orders to Indian companies and employment to Indians?

Government tenders do not tend to think in these directions. More than once experts have pointed to the flaw of having a system which looks at the lowest price as the only, or the main criterion.

For example, one big cost that these tenders overlook is the long term cost of servicing, and It remains to be seen how all the Chinese products that Mumbai is gobbling up perform in the long run. For now, this coach company has been a supplier to other metros too, and i'm willing to give it the benefit of doubt.

will the bombardier plant in india be able to supply coaches to bombay as well considering we are on standard gauge and delhi on broad? do they have the extra capacity to supply to bombay as well? are they better value for money? will they give the same time bound supply as the chinese supplier?

besides i am sure reliance did a global bid for all aspects of the metro. the chinese company must have won the bid for some very good reasons

For example, one big cost that these tenders overlook is the long term cost of servicing, and It remains to be seen how all the Chinese products that Mumbai is gobbling up perform in the long run. For now, this coach company has been a supplier to other metros too, and i'm willing to give it the benefit of doubt.

The Chinese companies may open up a few servicing centers in India to bring the servicing cost down. They may hire Indian mechanics and engineers to run these centers. So the servicing of these products may not be the biggest issue, but the issue is Chinese companies yet to prove that they can actually produce reliable engineering products.

will the bombardier plant in india be able to supply coaches to bombay as well considering we are on standard gauge and delhi on broad? do they have the extra capacity to supply to bombay as well? are they better value for money? will they give the same time bound supply as the chinese supplier?

besides i am sure reliance did a global bid for all aspects of the metro. the chinese company must have won the bid for some very good reasons

I think they can make standard gauge coaches in same plant with slight modifications. And of course, Bombardier is the most reputed name in the industry.

will the bombardier plant in india be able to supply coaches to bombay as well considering we are on standard gauge and delhi on broad? do they have the extra capacity to supply to bombay as well? are they better value for money? will they give the same time bound supply as the chinese supplier?

besides i am sure reliance did a global bid for all aspects of the metro. the chinese company must have won the bid for some very good reasons

Won't some future phases of Delhi Metro use standard guage?

Won't some future phases of Delhi Metro use standard guage?

There are only 3 lines in Delhi metro with broad gauge, rest all are and will be SG. 2 lines of SG in phase-II are using Rotem trains and 1 (airport exp) is using CAF trains. What new lines of Phase-III and IV will use is yet to be seen

maybe they can. but like i pointed out above thats just one of the issues. time bound delivery is another, especially since the original plans of reliance was to launch the metro sometime in the middle of this year

reliance may use them for the second line. but they will obviously have a global bid again. a number of parameters have to be met, i dont think any of us are privy to the decision making process in this case

maybe they can. but like i pointed out above thats just one of the issues. time bound delivery is another, especially since the original plans of reliance was to launch the metro sometime in the middle of this year

reliance may use them for the second line. but they will obviously have a global bid again. a number of parameters have to be met, i dont think any of us are privy to the decision making process in this case

Regarding deliveries, DMRC ordered 484 coaches from Bombardier and except few coaches which were air lifted or brought by sea route from Germany, most of them are going to come from the Indian plant in a 2 -3 years time. After that there will be a small lull till the time DMRC procures more for Phase-III lines (if Bombardier wins the contract).

So there will be a lot of unused capacity which can be used to supply to Mumbai metro. Demand from just line 2 of Mumbai won't be more than 100 coaches, so I don't think Bombardier will face any problems after supplying 400+ coaches in a short time.

With regards to delivery, producing metro coaches takes time, and I am not sure of the exact number of coaches one plant can produce in say a month, but I am quite sure 400 coaches will keep the factory running for a long while.

Actually, the exact production schedule is something I would love to know more about if there is any knowledgeable members out here who know.

Before deciding to set up shop here, I am quite sure Bombardier must have done a horizon analysis, and are optimistic of greater demand from India. Bombardier probably wants to gain the first mover advantage in terms of coach building so it can offer a proven platform to other Indian metros who do not have to worry about repairs and additional orders. I could relate this to the numero uno position that Volvo has in the bus industry.

Abhishek, if Mumbai Metro waits to utilize the unused capacity of the Bombardier plant, it may have to wait for a long time because that will come only after all the DMRC coaches have been produced and delivered. Mumbai Metro will need coaches much earlier than that. Again, like Bombay Boy said, there are a lot of parameters that any coach builder must satisfy, and thus the Chinese company must have won the bid on some solid ground.