NIKKEI 225 Dec 29, 1989........38,957


NIKKEI 225 Today...................8,693



Baby ?? BABY ?? Be very very careful now ....................

Yes, lord veru.... Nothing is impossible.

Yes, lord veru.... Nothing is impossible.

The correction this time round may be so severe that it will be off the charts and previous numbers made irrelevant. :nuts:

Yes, lord veru.... Nothing is impossible.

Young hayata-father-of-2-sweet-kids ....... just pointing out historical FACTS for Baby-baby to consider & revert .......:)


there are Lies ... Damn Lies......and then there are ...STATISTICS :lol:

Young hayata-father-of-2-sweet-kids ....... just pointing out historical FACTS for Baby-baby to consider & revert .......:)

Haha, point noted Lord veru. But really.... Nothing is impossible nowadays.:ohno:

But statistics don't lie.:)

Thanks Lord Veru. Baby keep in mind. :)

Young hayata-father-of-2-sweet-kids ....... just pointing out historical FACTS for Baby-baby to consider & revert .......:)


there are Lies ... Damn Lies......and then there are ...STATISTICS :lol:

The Oracle (of Omaha) says: "...if you wait for the robins, spring will be over"

last year can be called a "greedy" year...this year is the "fearful" year...

last year can be called a "greedy" year...this year is the "fearful" year...

Yes Bro Bb72 .... BUT The Sage of Omaha would probably call 2007 the "fearful" year & 2008 the "greedy" year ....cash was King in 2007 & 2008 may be the time to buy :) ......... for me 2008 is the "Year of Living Dangerously " a la Bro Mel Gibson :lol: ... i am greedy to buy .. but am most fearful at the same time ...the delicious exhilaration of "living dangerously " !!!! :cheers: for all

Ku's bullishness MAY make some sense though.. I can, by far, see potential and value retention in fixed assets in politically stable and transparent countries if and only if one doesnt go out to recklessly buy properties at way way above market values. By now, many have sold their positions and are very liquid. Major banks despite the credit crisis and posted losses are undeniably continued to be flushed with cash by central banks. Surely once again we will reach a point when you and I who have and should have cashed out on our investments by now and are sitting on liquid assets and the banks who are also "forced fed" with cash as we speak start to realise they have "more" cash than they require cos they seriously don't know when to stop (just in the case of the start of credit crisis) will all wonder what the heck can we do with all these liquid cash surplus. If the snow ball starts rolling and the floodgates open, the bull run should be fiercer than ever. Fixed assets at that point will probably be up again on a faster and larger pace. Emphasis on fixed assets will be far greater than it was 3 years ago in areas outside USA I guess. I will hardly think anyone will put most of the eggs in financially engineered products for some time. Sorry to those RMs and PBs but the reputation of high flying bankers in maseratis are tarnished. If the clients' money wasnt to finance that nice maserati over the past 2 years, it would have been burned in hell together with a certain "brothers" or "bear" company. This will surely go down in history and our generation and perhaps the next will always remember.. Better to borrow money from the bank and invest in things the risk you are sure of than to give them money and let them screw it all up.

Btw, oil price drop in anticipation of recession has so far been met with an equally positive response on demand side. I see the nymex crude still hovering above 70 dollar per bbl. price drop and goes up and continues that way for some weeks now. Some expect it to drop to 50. Lets see.. if world demand can support the price at 70 plus, looks like theres still alot of business going on. Just my thoughts. anyone please enlighten. Thanksi really hope crude oil drop to 50.

so you expect ardmore park back at $1500 psf (if $2500 today)?

I dont think the chance is high, there is a chance that it will happen but not a high chance. I know many billionaires has become millionaires overnight but to let go at $1500psf which mean the property price is only $4.32m. Ardmore Park highest record is $10.1m($3,501psf), if going by the 40% reduction calculation, is $6.06m($2,101psf). The latest transacted price is $6.85m($2,374psf), I think Ardmore Park is nearing its bottom for this cycle.

Also, there are 5 sites at Ardmore area waiting to be launched. Anderson 18 has the highest enbloc price. to replace that developers surely have to sell at $2500+psf to breakeven.

Marina Bay Sands Resort begins massive recruitment exercise on Monday

Channel NewsAsia - Monday, October 20 SINGAPORE:

The Marina Bay Sands Resort has announced a massive recruitment drive to start getting some of the 10,000 staff it will need, with priority given to locals.

And it has the help of local union movement and the Workforce Development Agency.

From food and beverage staff to security officers, to hotel room attendants, these are some of the posts that will filled when the Integrated Resort opens its doors for business at the end of next year.

Mr George Tanasijevich, General Manager and Vice President of Singapore Development, Marina Bay Sands Resort, said: "There will be all job types covering business categories included in the Integrated Resort, from basic entry level positions all the way through to senior management positions, but clearly this initiative with NTUC is focusing on rank—and—file positions."

And government agencies want to ensure that Singaporeans looking to re—enter the labour market such as housewives are equipped with the right skills.

Mr Zee Yoong Kang, CEO of Employment and Employability Institute, said: "It is timely that these jobs are coming on stream at a very difficult or potentially difficult time for the Singapore economy.

"Our job now is to make sure that these jobs are accessible to as many Singaporeans as possible so that in bad times they can look forward to filling these vacancies."

Marina Bay Sands Resort will first conduct a pre—employability exercise where potential employees receive one to two weeks of training. They are then interviewed and if hired, go through a proper training.

Mr Zee added: "Of course we want them to get into Sands but if they fail to get into Sands and choose to work elsewhere, we are very sure that the skills we give them will enable them to get into other jobs."

Singapore has an overall target of getting Singaporeans ready for the expected 60,000 jobs to be created in the overall tourism industry by 2010.

The first phase of Sands recruitment drive for non—gaming staff will kick off on Monday. — CNA/de

Does this help in the condo market? Some opinions please.

These blue collar workers stay where ar? In the hotels or on the streets? Some Singaporean retirees can fill this gap, but majority will still be dependent on "FT". These people would likely support the public housing rental.

There will always be some managers, entreprenuers, etc who would join this group of workers. The support is there for rental of private as well.

Next year is the "revenge" year :lol:
last year can be called a "greedy" year...this year is the "fearful" year...

Next year is the "revenge" year :lol:

Revenge of the jedi?:lol:

These blue collar workers stay where ar? In the hotels or on the streets? Some Singaporean retirees can fill this gap, but majority will still be dependent on "FT". These people would likely support the public housing rental.

Foreign workers dormitories lor.....soon, there'll be one in every housing estate........:lol:

Return of the Greed !!!

Revenge of the jedi?:lol:

I am surprise to know the rental of HDB for the East like Tampines, Simei that are close to the Changi Business Park and Tampines are almost on PAR to the central HDB.... Most likely due to the growing of financial back room operation services that have been moving into this area...expect rental to stay healthy when more banks moved to this cheaper location despite gloomy economy......but observed many are mid income WP FT (lots of ma ma, philipino) in the financial service sector, so not expecting too much demand on private condo rental except probably 10% that can afford unless rental drop a lot from current.

Foreign workers dormitories lor.....soon, there'll be one in every housing estate........:lol:

Economy in recession, so why build more dorms ?

There was one recent article on proposal to build waterfloating dorm....MAD MAD MAD !!! Building on floating dorm is like a luxury 6 star living !

Still many deserted land in Singapore lah !!! See LimChuKang, Chua Chu Kang, Seletar, Changi, Tampines.....

Foreign workers dormitories lor.....soon, there'll be one in every housing estate........:lol:

Economy in recession, so why build more dorms ?

There was one recent article on proposal to build waterfloating dorm....MAD MAD MAD !!! Building on floating dorm is like a luxury 6 star living !

Still many deserted land in Singapore lah !!! See LimChuKang, Chua Chu Kang, Seletar, Changi, Tampines.....

The underlying motivation may not be economics or financial.....:shifty:

Next year is the "revenge" year :lol:

you take revenge, is it???

Economy in recession, so why build more dorms ?

There was one recent article on proposal to build waterfloating dorm....MAD MAD MAD !!! Building on floating dorm is like a luxury 6 star living !

Still many deserted land in Singapore lah !!! See LimChuKang, Chua Chu Kang, Seletar, Changi, Tampines.....

Govt just like developers given the wrong signals by the market.....oversupply coming.....
But Govt sells land only...take money...dorm developers take the risks....

I am surprise to know the rental of HDB for the East like Tampines, Simei that are close to the Changi Business Park and Tampines are almost on PAR to the central HDB.... Most likely due to the growing of financial back room operation services that have been moving into this area...expect rental to stay healthy when more banks moved to this cheaper location despite gloomy economy......but observed many are mid income WP FT (lots of ma ma, philipino) in the financial service sector, so not expecting too much demand on private condo rental except probably 10% that can afford unless rental drop a lot from current.

thats why everyone need a HDB flat to defend against globalisation

Oversupply of condos around Change Biz Park....one Melville Park can depress rental liao...dont expect to make big money out of CBP factor...

When Central Office rentals soften, banks will move back...It is displacement of demand...

Just watch East Coast Condo rentals when there is oversupply in Orchard...

Opps....better shut up on comments on investments prop....coz I never bot inv prop before so no credibility to comments on prop trends....hahaha

Also, there are 5 sites at Ardmore area waiting to be launched. Anderson 18 has the highest enbloc price. to replace that developers surely have to sell at $2500+psf to breakeven.

how abt when developers sell at loss to get cashflow to survive....???

These blue collar workers stay where ar? In the hotels or on the streets? Some Singaporean retirees can fill this gap, but majority will still be dependent on "FT". These people would likely support the public housing rental.

There will always be some managers, entreprenuers, etc who would join this group of workers. The support is there for rental of private as well.

Some of the low-end workers (Filipino n PRCs) are already staying in Singapore working.

Good luck to those who works for Sands....Those with jobs better dont quit to join them...jobless nothing to lose....

thats why everyone need a HDB flat to defend against globalisation

Oversupply of condos around Change Biz Park....one Melville Park can depress rental liao...dont expect to make big money out of CBP factor...

When Central Office rentals soften, banks will move back...It is displacement of demand...

Just watch East Coast Condo rentals when there is oversupply in Orchard...

Opps....better shut up on comments on investments prop....coz I never bot inv prop before so no credibility to comments on prop trends....hahaha

Whatever it is, BB72 has given us very credible arguments since the starting of this thread.... BB72 please continue with your valid pointers and views....

This thread is about property trends.... Up or down depends on many factors.... We are here to discuss about it.

3 month SIBOR going down after peak on 26 Sep.

Expect SIBOR to go lower near-mid term (up to 2 years) ?
- interbank lending ease in Singapore after MAS guaranteed deposit till end 2010.
- recession and low economy growth over next 1-2 year
- S$ to depreciate or keep low.
- US, EU, China, OZ, etc lowering their interest.......

Next 1-2 year, expect to go below 1% ? ( repeat 2002 - mid 2004 )

So refinance mortgage with 3-Month SIBOR still the way to go ?

3 Month SIBOR
Aug 01 1.00
Aug 08 1.00
Aug 15 1.25
Aug 22 1.19
Aug 29 1.19
Sep 05 1.31
Sep 12 1.25
Sep 19 1.50
Sep 26 2.00
Oct 03 1.75
Oct 10 1.50
Oct 17 1.38

Capitaland, CDL and Kepland seem to be bottoming.

But that does not mean they will reverse to up trend. They might be caught in this bottoming process for a while before moving up.

how abt when developers sell at loss to get cashflow to survive....???


1. Anderson 18: CDL and Wingtai
2. Ardmore Point: Wingtai
3. Pin Tjoe Court: Pontiac Land
4. Ardmore III: Wheelock Place
5. The Ardmore: SC Global

Which of the 5 are likely to face problem? Think all of them still quite strong after last year bull-run.

1. Anderson 18: CDL and Wingtai
2. Ardmore Point: Wingtai
3. Pin Tjoe Court: Pontiac Land
4. Ardmore III: Wheelock Place
5. The Ardmore: SC Global

Which of the 5 are likely to face problem? Think all of them still quite strong after last year bull-run.

5. The Ardmore: SC Global

Too highly geared and not very good cashflow?

Bot high for last 2 plots, Ardmore n Sentosa.

Hold on to too many units of Hilltops n Marq.

5. The Ardmore: SC Global

Too highly geared and not very good cashflow?

Bot high for last 2 plots, Ardmore n Sentosa.

Hold on to too many units of Hilltops n Marq.

Apparently SC Global is 3.13X net gearing. Very streched. He even has units left in the lincoln morden...

Apparently SC Global is 3.13X net gearing. Very streched. He even has units left in the lincoln morden...

BLVD super penthouse still haven't been sold yet.

Anyway, slump in Russia bad for super-luxury condos. Many sold last year registered under Russian names...

BLVD super penthouse still haven't been sold yet.

Anyway, slump in Russia bad for super-luxury condos. Many sold last year registered under Russian names...

Bro BB72, prince of analyts... Your knowledge is ridiculously immense.... :bow:
Especially for someone that claims to not owning a condo.:nuts:

Marc Faber Says Oversold Stocks May Rally, Won't Make New Highs

Oct. 20 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks fell too far and may rally without setting records, investor Marc Faber said.

``We're extremely oversold at the present time,'' Faber said in an interview with Bloomberg Television. ``The market is in a position to rebound.''

Faber said he is holding gold, cash and short-term bonds because inflation will increase as the U.S. government lowers interest rates to stave off an economic slowdown.

``The governments in this world have no other option but to print money. That will lead down the road to inflation,'' Faber said. ``You don't need to be an economist graduated from Harvard to know we're already in a recession. They will just put white paint on a crumbling building.''

Faber, the Gloom, Boom & Doom report publisher, said stocks make up 7 or 8 percent of his holdings, with cash, bonds and his biggest position, gold, accounting for the rest.

Faber recommended buying stocks in Singapore because they are inexpensive based on net-asset values. He said this is true particularly for the nation's real-estate investment trusts and banks.

``You should just buy the whole of Singapore,'' Faber said. He also recommended stocks in Turkey.

Marc Faber Says Oversold Stocks May Rally, Won't Make New Highs

Oct. 20 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks fell too far and may rally without setting records, investor Marc Faber said.

``We're extremely oversold at the present time,'' Faber said in an interview with Bloomberg Television. ``The market is in a position to rebound.''

Faber said he is holding gold, cash and short-term bonds because inflation will increase as the U.S. government lowers interest rates to stave off an economic slowdown.

``The governments in this world have no other option but to print money. That will lead down the road to inflation,'' Faber said. ``You don't need to be an economist graduated from Harvard to know we're already in a recession. They will just put white paint on a crumbling building.''

Faber, the Gloom, Boom & Doom report publisher, said stocks make up 7 or 8 percent of his holdings, with cash, bonds and his biggest position, gold, accounting for the rest.

Faber recommended buying stocks in Singapore because they are inexpensive based on net-asset values. He said this is true particularly for the nation's real-estate investment trusts and banks.

``You should just buy the whole of Singapore,'' Faber said. He also recommended stocks in Turkey.

But, if Guru Faber says that the stocks in Dow Jones are over sold.... Why doesn't he buy much.... Instead he buys gold, bonds and keeps cash.....
Predicting a serious crash?

I remember dormitories for mainly foreign contruction workers. First time hearing dorm for IT personel for the Serangoon case..

I remember dormitories for mainly foreign contruction workers. First time hearing dorm for IT personel for the Serangoon case..

Importing cheap labour to displace Sporeans? :ohno:

This part is extremely interesting and exciting. ANALysts in Singapore are very pessimistic about Reits and banks but gloom-doom is recommending.

Buying the whole of Singapore - buy STI index ETF will do ?

btw, buy stock better or ETF ? buy stock got divident but not ETF ?


Faber recommended buying stocks in Singapore because they are inexpensive based on net-asset values. He said this is true particularly for the nation's real-estate investment trusts and banks.

``You should just buy the whole of Singapore,'' Faber said. He also recommended stocks in Turkey.

I remember dormitories for mainly foreign contruction workers. First time hearing dorm for IT personel for the Serangoon case..

1 week ago, i was at a customer's home. She leased out 1 room of her chinatown 3room HDB to 2 foreigners. Both are indian IT foreign talents.
Actually there are plenty of mid-end foreign talents in Singapore. They
cannot afford condo rents, that is why HDB prices are holding so well.

5. The Ardmore: SC Global
fully agreed! however i do have to kowtow to SC Global. A warehouse place like Martin Rd and yet he still can sell 30 units at an average of $2100psf.

he has it own supporter.

This part is extremely interesting and exciting. ANALysts in Singapore are very pessimistic about Reits and banks but gloom-doom is recommending.

Buying the whole of Singapore - buy STI index ETF will do ?

btw, buy stock better or ETF ? buy stock got divident but not ETF ?

ETF is cheap, but volume transactions not high. Stock with dividends are expensive.... money may be stuck....

Choose, but choose wisely.

fully agreed! however i do have to kowtow to SC Global. A warehouse place like Martin Rd and yet he still can sell 30 units at an average of $2100psf.

he has it own supporter.

Is it true that Simon Cheong of SC global is the owner of the 50's KTV at tanjong pagar road?

Thought is Jackie Chan ?

I like that stretch of shop houses along Tanjong Pagar Road, but nowadays too many sexy philipino girls touting, ....even when you are across the other side of the road.... they'll shout "hi dear, hi darling ",.... Nowadays I walk along that stretch I also shy, got to avoid walking pass in front of some of those pubs......

Is it true that Simon Cheong of SC global is the owner of the 50's KTV at tanjong pagar road?

Thought is Jackie Chan ?
Yah, forgot... He sold it to Jackie Chan. Apparently, he and jackie are pals... Lucky him...:)

Largest commercial buildings buyer in trouble

The financial turmoil that is now Australia's Macquarie Bank will have an impact to Singapore because the bank has significant investments here. All of Macquarie's operating groups are represented here. In addition, Macquarie's Asia corporate advisory team has its headquarters in Singapore.

For starters, the bank's independently managed private equity real estate company Macquarie Global Property Advisors (MGPA) - which is jointly owned by its senior management team and Macquarie - was the biggest foreign investor in Singapore's property market last year.

Just earlier this year, MGPA said that it will spend about $2 billion building a 2.6 million sq ft commercial complex on two development sites at Marina View that it clinched last year. With the sites having costs close to $3 billion, the total investment will come to around $5 billion. It is also the largest foreign broker and the largest issuers of warrants.

With such a strong presence here, any trouble on Australian shores could have repercussions for Singapore.

In the light of the constant barrage, Macquarie was obliged to issue a statement that it is well funded and has the required liquidity to continue operating.

Macquarie shares had lost some 41% of their value from mid September 2008.

Largest commercial buildings buyer in trouble

The financial turmoil that is now Australia's Macquarie Bank will have an impact to Singapore because the bank has significant investments here. All of Macquarie's operating groups are represented here. In addition, Macquarie's Asia corporate advisory team has its headquarters in Singapore.

For starters, the bank's independently managed private equity real estate company Macquarie Global Property Advisors (MGPA) - which is jointly owned by its senior management team and Macquarie - was the biggest foreign investor in Singapore's property market last year.

Just earlier this year, MGPA said that it will spend about $2 billion building a 2.6 million sq ft commercial complex on two development sites at Marina View that it clinched last year. With the sites having costs close to $3 billion, the total investment will come to around $5 billion. It is also the largest foreign broker and the largest issuers of warrants.

With such a strong presence here, any trouble on Australian shores could have repercussions for Singapore.

In the light of the constant barrage, Macquarie was obliged to issue a statement that it is well funded and has the required liquidity to continue operating.

Macquarie shares had lost some 41% of their value from mid September 2008.

Got info from construction market that Marina View has gotten the go ahead with the project. Its going ahead full steam. Anyone can double confirm with their respective sources too. Thanks a bunch

The construction sites at Marina View is at full steam , 24x7.

btw, all shares around the globe had fallen tremendously, so everybody is at equal level of playing....I'm amazed reporters/analysts keep highlighting the share price plunged for any company they commented as in potential trouble.

Got info from construction market that Marina View has gotten the go ahead with the project. Its going ahead full steam. Anyone can double confirm with their respective sources too. Thanks a bunch

Got info from construction market that Marina View has gotten the go ahead with the project. Its going ahead full steam. Anyone can double confirm with their respective sources too. Thanks a bunch

dont know. that project already got financing. so what is there to stop them?

If Macq collapsed, the projects will stalled since Macq Advisors owned equity stakes...

Macq heavily dependable on wholesale funding n securisation. Not surprised if they have lots of assets warehousing, waiting to sell to REITs. Now stuck iwth illiquid assets.

dont know. that project already got financing. so what is there to stop them?

If Macq collapsed, the projects will stalled since Macq Advisors owned equity stakes...

Macq heavily dependable on wholesale funding n securisation. Not surprised if they have lots of assets warehousing, waiting to sell to REITs. Now stuck iwth illiquid assets.

Thats the fear factor for our domestic market at the least - if the project is stalled. construction, generally, has to be in full working capacity at least in a couple of years. Otherwise we will be into FURTHER recession

Thats the fear factor for our domestic market at the least - if the project is stalled. construction, generally, has to be in full working capacity at least in a couple of years. Otherwise we will be into FURTHER recession

Construction sector may have some weak links as some listed ones bot some enbloc sites at high prices...May have failed if banks pull loans.

1 week ago, i was at a customer's home. She leased out 1 room of her chinatown 3room HDB to 2 foreigners. Both are indian IT foreign talents.
Actually there are plenty of mid-end foreign talents in Singapore. They
cannot afford condo rents, that is why HDB prices are holding so well.

You are wrong. There are many pinnoys in mid or low management that share and rent condo. Going at about $400 per pax for about 8 in a 3 bedroom unit..

Marc
Faber recommended buying stocks in Singapore because they are inexpensive based on net-asset values. He said this is true particularly for the nation's real-estate investment trusts and banks.

``You should just buy the whole of Singapore,'' Faber said. He also recommended stocks in Turkey.

sigh... i really wonder whether theres any real investors here..

My missus and myself just had a discussion and ( her being a banker) am really quite disguested by how skewed an image she has over the current mkt situation.

ladies and gentleman, even if there's naysayers over Lord Veru's postings, lets look at it in a neutral sort of way.. where can the $$$$$$$ go in this market?

where's the bottom line? and frankly, does it even matter???

my biggest regret is not having enough cash ( tho we have kept ourselves liquid for the past 1 year plus) to fully capitalise on the current market situation..

next 6 months gonna be worse i hear??? who cares? investment is not a short term thing. gambling is.... now is the time to do our homework and start, repeat START, accumulating what we may never be able to afford in our lifetime.

You are wrong. There are many pinnoys in mid or low management that share and rent condo. Going at about $400 per pax for about 8 in a 3 bedroom unit..

8 people squeeze into a 3 bed condo..... Sounds like the landlords are very desperate now.... You leased out your units like that ?

Thats the fear factor for our domestic market at the least - if the project is stalled. construction, generally, has to be in full working capacity at least in a couple of years. Otherwise we will be into FURTHER recession

This is called Pump Priming...

sigh... i really wonder whether theres any real investors here..

My missus and myself just had a discussion and ( her being a banker) am really quite disguested by how skewed an image she has over the current mkt situation.

ladies and gentleman, even if there's naysayers over Lord Veru's postings, lets look at it in a neutral sort of way.. where can the $$$$$$$ go in this market?

where's the bottom line? and frankly, does it even matter???

my biggest regret is not having enough cash ( tho we have kept ourselves liquid for the past 1 year plus) to fully capitalise on the current market situation..

next 6 months gonna be worse i hear??? who cares? investment is not a short term thing. gambling is.... now is the time to do our homework and start, repeat START, accumulating what we may never be able to afford in our lifetime.

there are plenty of opportunities during good n bad times...

sigh... i really wonder whether theres any real investors here..

My missus and myself just had a discussion and ( her being a banker) am really quite disguested by how skewed an image she has over the current mkt situation.

ladies and gentleman, even if there's naysayers over Lord Veru's postings, lets look at it in a neutral sort of way.. where can the $$$$$$$ go in this market?

where's the bottom line? and frankly, does it even matter???

my biggest regret is not having enough cash ( tho we have kept ourselves liquid for the past 1 year plus) to fully capitalise on the current market situation..

next 6 months gonna be worse i hear??? who cares? investment is not a short term thing. gambling is.... now is the time to do our homework and start, repeat START, accumulating what we may never be able to afford in our lifetime.

there are plenty of opportunities during good n bad times...

It is safer to buy stocks when it is cheap. I know cheap can sometime get cheaper; the problem is sometime people buy too much of the cheap stocks.

Just buy some as a porfolio, do not buy up using all your cash. Buy with the intention to leave it as it is for around 2-5 years period. Do not sell too early too.

[QUOTE=stingraytan;26922406]sigh... i really wonder whether theres any real investors here..

My missus and myself just had a discussion and ( her being a banker) am really quite disguested by how skewed an image she has over the current mkt situation.

ladies and gentleman, even if there's naysayers over Lord Veru's postings, lets look at it in a neutral sort of way.. where can the $$$$$$$ go in this market?

where's the bottom line? and frankly, does it even matter???

my biggest regret is not having enough cash ( tho we have kept ourselves liquid for the past 1 year plus) to fully capitalise on the current market situation..

next 6 months gonna be worse i hear??? who cares? investment is not a short term thing. gambling is.... now is the time to do our homework and start, repeat START, accumulating what we may never be able to afford in our lifetime.[QUOTE]

there are plenty of opportunities during good n bad times...

couldn't agree more... in good times, there are still people going bankrupt...

and like i said before, people get rich when times are bad, they only see the results when times are good...

[QUOTE=bigbird72;26939310]

It is safer to buy stocks when it is cheap. I know cheap can sometime get cheaper; the problem is sometime people buy too much of the cheap stocks.

Just buy some as a porfolio, do not buy up using all your cash. Buy with the intention to leave it as it is for around 2-5 years period. Do not sell too early too.

Yes, Yes and Yes!

sigh... i really wonder whether theres any real investors here..

My missus and myself just had a discussion and ( her being a banker) am really quite disguested by how skewed an image she has over the current mkt situation.

ladies and gentleman, even if there's naysayers over Lord Veru's postings, lets look at it in a neutral sort of way.. where can the $$$$$$$ go in this market?

where's the bottom line? and frankly, does it even matter???

my biggest regret is not having enough cash ( tho we have kept ourselves liquid for the past 1 year plus) to fully capitalise on the current market situation..

next 6 months gonna be worse i hear??? who cares? investment is not a short term thing. gambling is.... now is the time to do our homework and start, repeat START, accumulating what we may never be able to afford in our lifetime.

there are plenty of opportunities during good n bad times...

Yes, yes and yes.

8 people squeeze into a 3 bed condo..... Sounds like the landlords are very desperate now.... You leased out your units like that ?

No. My ex-colleagues who are pinnoys tell me. They can pay the same rental for HDB too.

So for those who have never held any properties, it's quite hard to explain to them...

[QUOTE=bigbird72;26939310]

It is safer to buy stocks when it is cheap. I know cheap can sometime get cheaper; the problem is sometime people buy too much of the cheap stocks.

Just buy some as a porfolio, do not buy up using all your cash. Buy with the intention to leave it as it is for around 2-5 years period. Do not sell too early too.

physical properties tougher (require more kung fu) because it is big ticket item. Got only 1 or 2 shots. Difficult to average down to catch bottom..

Mixture of prop shares & physical properties better to play bottom-fishing in prop mkt.

Properties shares down doesn't mean physical properties down.

Properties shares down doesn't mean physical properties down.

Sorry to blow your bubble, but.... Look thru the straits times classifieds and the URA caveats recently....

I am looking. Those weaker ones can let go. Got guts to buy?

Properties shares down doesn't mean physical properties down.


I know lar... property shares down more than physical prop.....more value found in prop shares if expected prop mkt to recover in long term...shares tend to overshoot valuation more and faster so better value can be found.

Shares-physical combo would be better play for liquidity and mkt timing...my view only...

Sorry to blow your bubble, but.... Look thru the straits times classifieds and the URA caveats recently....

Not always. This time yes because situation is quite bad due to financial crisis. Then again there is no direct correlation even though property prices may lag by 6 months. URA figures showed only 1.8% decline (yes this decline will get worst in coming quarters)while property share values have come down 50% - 70%.

I am looking. Those weaker ones can let go. Got guts to buy?


weaker one let go. valuation get hit. every owner get marked down.

I know lar... property shares down more than physical prop.....more value found in prop shares if expected prop mkt to recover in long term...shares tend to overshoot valuation more and faster so better value can be found.

Shares-physical combo would be better play for liquidity and mkt timing...my view only...

I like it! Will grab a piece of action when CDL and Capitaland hit my target price. Then it's a perfect brew!

Not always. This time yes because situation is quite bad due to financial crisis. Then again there is no direct correlation even though property prices may lag by 6 months. URA figures showed only 1.8% decline (yes this decline will get worst in coming quarters)while property share values have come down 50% - 70%.


leverage. 10% down = 50% down on house equity, assumed 20% DP.

weaker one let go. valuation get hit. every owner get marked down.

SIBOR seems to be coming down.

Oct
03 1.75
10 1.50
17 1.38

SIBOR seems to be coming down..


ya. volatile. spike up here m there.

Anyone want to guess whether it's banks' interest to see more bankruptcy?

Now the villian is the bank. Enjoy the ride my bros!

Be warned.... This economic crisis may last longer than most think.... In fact when US recovers.... Singapore may not have recovered then.... Cash is King!

Govt announcing more spending for the next 5 years!
Marc Faber says buy Singapore!
Wealth is shifting my friends!

Anyone want to guess whether it's banks' interest to see more bankruptcy?

Banks do not give a rats ass.... As long as they can liquidate your existing assets at lower than the market price and you still owe them the balance....

It happened then and will happen again.

Be warned.... This economic crisis may last longer than most think.... In fact when US recovers.... Singapore may not have recovered then.... Cash is King!

The difference between this crisis and previous ones like SARS and Asian Crisis is that we have been forewarn of this perfect storm.

Those who are still in this game know the rules.

Banks do not give a rats ass.... As long as they can liquidate your existing assets at lower than the market price and you still owe them the balance....

It happened then and will happen again.

How to liquidate your existing assets? Force sell? Who got guts to buy?

leverage. 10% down = 50% down on house equity, assumed 20% DP.

Yes but works both ways. If you have holding power which majoirty have, then even declining rents on well located condos which will always remain rentable will give you 10% net (minus interest, etc)returns on your 20% downpayment. Better than waiting 1-2 years for market to bottom and earn nothing.

The question is how lucky will one have to be in timing the bottom and and top of a stock price. Majority get caught and get palyed out thinking the present bull or bear run should be a replica of the previous one. 90% will never make money in the stock market in the long run unlike in property. The 10% may make much more than property investors but you need guts thinking you could be one of the 10%. Property investment will give you less sleepless nights and you need to spend less time glued to the monitor.

How to liquidate your existing assets? Force sell? Who got guts to buy?

Yes, if auction no buyers, then bank will conduct private sale at ridiculous low price..... Sure sell..... Then you still have to pay the balance if the selling price is lower than your loan....

This happens alot in every recession....

Whatever it is, banks always win....

Banks win at losers (cannot hold) expense. Not those who know how to play the game.

Banks do not give a rats ass.... As long as they can liquidate your existing assets at lower than the market price and you still owe them the balance....

It happened then and will happen again.

Banks will act only if you can't service the loans in which case the investor deserves it. But they will not act on the common man even if he goes into negative equity on his property (as long as he pays the installments) as doing so will only worsen the situation for Singapore and ultimately for the banks. Local banks will not counteract the efforts of the govt who is trying so hard to help the economy to recover.

Yes, if auction no buyers, then bank will conduct private sale at ridiculous low price..... Sure sell..... Then you still have to pay the balance if the selling price is lower than your loan....

This happens alot in every recession....

Whatever it is, banks always win....


The bank can be sued for auctioning off assets at ridiculously low price. They will have to prove that they got the best possible price available at that point in time.

Yes but works both ways. If you have holding power which majoirty have, then even declining rents on well located condos which will always remain rentable will give you 10% net (minus interest, etc)returns on your 20% downpayment. Better than waiting 1-2 years for market to bottom and earn nothing.

The question is how lucky will one have to be in timing the bottom and and top of a stock price. Majority get caught and get palyed out thinking the present bull or bear run should be a replica of the previous one. 90% will never make money in the stock market in the long run unlike in property. The 10% may make much more than property investors but you need guts thinking you could be one of the 10%. Property investment will give you less sleepless nights and you need to spend less time glued to the monitor.


4 assumptions to be tested.

- holding power
- rentability
- 10% net yield << leveraged yield.
- less sleepless nights.

Banks will act only if you can't service the loans in which case the investor deserves it. But they will not act on the common man even if he goes into negative equity on his property (as long as he pays the installments) as doing so will only worsen the situation for Singapore and ultimately for the banks. Local banks will not counteract the efforts of the govt who is trying so hard to help the economy to recover.


global crisis. govt also LL.

How to liquidate your existing assets? Force sell? Who got guts to buy?

Leave it to the market? :nuts:
There will always be a realisable value, though it may be unexpectedly low.

The bank can be sued for auctioning off assets at ridiculously low price. They will have to prove that they got the best possible price available at that point in time.

True, there are cases of law suits done on the banks because of this kind of situation.... But, never heard of anyone succeed though....

i seldom post on this forum for the lack of inteligent things to say and a shortage of chance to get online like most people..

however, being a small time businessman and hearing all these comments in this "bad" market, i really have to chip in a little...

we have never been so happy in these past 2years as FINALLY, there's a shift of wealth. when the normal rich can be very rich, the very rich can be super rich and the super rich may loose their underwear.

why fret unless u are those who are so shortsighted and thus exposed to all the markets that pull down ur "percieved value"??

these have no place in the real world.

pls, anyone who wana sell the sail at a discount, dont go further than this forum, cos we are sure theres lots of potential buyers (me poor self included).

for me? am hoping to sell one of my properties (at a slight loss) so that i can get more exposure in this current stock market. No holding power?? Pls dont be in the market.. be it shares or property....

Agreed, selling at slight loss now to leverage on the potential enormous earnings in the stock market is a very smart move.

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/5y/_/_sti

Market is right now at 1800+ points... potential earnings from the beaten down shares are ridiculous compared to how much more your properties prices can grow in 3 years time....

This is simple logic call opportunity cost.

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/5y/_/_sti

Market is right now at 1800+ points... potential earnings from the beaten down shares are ridiculous compared to how much more your properties prices can grow in 3 years time....

This is simple logic call opportunity cost.

Yes, totally agreed.
I am waiting and telling myself to be very very patient although it starts to get tempting.
I think D** may break $10 and C**co $0.50 and K**corp $3.00
till then...

Yes, totally agreed.
I am waiting and telling myself to be very very patient although it starts to get tempting.
I think D** may break $10 and C**co $0.50 and K**corp $3.00
till then...

Global stocks fall on earnings outlook, U.S. dollar firm

Stock Markets HONG KONG (Reuters) – Asian stocks fell on Wednesday as poor U.S. corporate results and falling commodity prices fanned worries of a protracted global economic slowdown.

The U.S. dollar rose to a 20-month high against the euro as investors bet that central banks around the world will have to catch up to this year's deep interest rate cuts by the Federal Reserve as their economies slow.

In addition to problems created by tight credit markets, some Asian companies have been caught off guard by the pace at which global demand has dropped. As a result, rising inventories pose yet another drag on earnings prospects.

"As the credit crunch has worsened, wholesale business inventories have risen, causing an alarming rise in inventories in Asia and emerging markets at a time when seasonally these are usually being drawn down," said Sean Darby, chief Asia strategist with Nomura in Hong Kong.

"We would expect earnings to be further revised down within Asia and global emerging markets," he said in a note.

Japan's Nikkei share average fell 2.85 percent, erasing Tuesday's gains.

C**C* very tempting at 0.5...

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/5y/_/_sti

Market is right now at 1800+ points... potential earnings from the beaten down shares are ridiculous compared to how much more your properties prices can grow in 3 years time....

This is simple logic call opportunity cost.

Agree if you can pick the right horse.

Provided the one time champion horses you bet on do not become lame in the second race. Champion horses do not always become champions again. Many invest based on institutional knowledge and that is where they get caught.

The ideal is of course to make some good money in the stock market on the correctly picked horses before shifting it to the property market . But stock market does not give the same leverage.

Yes, if auction no buyers, then bank will conduct private sale at ridiculous low price..... Sure sell..... Then you still have to pay the balance if the selling price is lower than your loan....

This happens alot in every recession....

Whatever it is, banks always win....

Are you sure there is recourse clause for residential property mortgage?

Banks will act only if you can't service the loans in which case the investor deserves it. But they will not act on the common man even if he goes into negative equity on his property (as long as he pays the installments) as doing so will only worsen the situation for Singapore and ultimately for the banks. Local banks will not counteract the efforts of the govt who is trying so hard to help the economy to recover.

If negative equity, cannot refinance loans. EVEN with current bank. Mortgage rates will go to the undiscounted rates. Banks dont want to offer new packages because they know the borrower is stuck with them.

I know UOB did this to a shophouse in Jalan Besar. Loan was at negative equity. Borrower paying higher rates because cannot run to another bank.
UOB refuse to lower rates.

Someone quoted example of Asian Crisis. Banks asked for top-up when loan goes negative equity.

EURO 1.28 vs USD. Just wow!

BTW, can somebody please post the link to the new thread for stock related discussions? I can't find it. Thanks.

My sifu says sell high buy low. Sell the relatively expensive asset and buy the relatively cheaper asset. Portfolio rebalancing.
My two investment properties are probably about 15% off from peak.
But stocks are 50% off.
Thinking of selling properties quickly for a 25% hit from peak (but still 25% profits) and shifting to stocks.
What do you guys think?

My sifu says sell high buy low. Sell the relatively expensive asset and buy the relatively cheaper asset. Portfolio rebalancing.
My two investment properties are probably about 15% off from peak.
But stocks are 50% off.
Thinking of selling properties quickly for a 25% hit from peak (but still 25% profits) and shifting to stocks.
What do you guys think?

I think today Straits Times Money page has an article about investors selling off properties now to take profit.

EURO 1.28 vs USD. Just wow!

.

Its wow indeed .... esp if one encashed one's EUR holdings & converted to USD at 1.60 just a little while ago on April 24, 2008 :) Next target 1.15 ??

My sifu says sell high buy low. Sell the relatively expensive asset and buy the relatively cheaper asset. Portfolio rebalancing.
My two investment properties are probably about 15% off from peak.
But stocks are 50% off.
Thinking of selling properties quickly for a 25% hit from peak (but still 25% profits) and shifting to stocks.
What do you guys think?

Cash still up 1% over last 12 months. :)

Cash still up 1% over last 12 months. :)

Indeed ...but thats cash returns in SGD ... for example a switch from SGD to USD at an appropriate inflection point may have yielded far more than 1% !

Best time to sell was last year....

I think today Straits Times Money page has an article about investors selling off properties now to take profit.

If negative equity, cannot refinance loans. EVEN with current bank. Mortgage rates will go to the undiscounted rates. Banks dont want to offer new packages because they know the borrower is stuck with them.

I know UOB did this to a shophouse in Jalan Besar. Loan was at negative equity. Borrower paying higher rates because cannot run to another bank.
UOB refuse to lower rates.

Someone quoted example of Asian Crisis. Banks asked for top-up when loan goes negative equity.

I have not heard of any case personally but if that is the only property you have then banks may ask for top up but I am sure they are willing to negotiate. This is a lesser of a problem than not paying installments. But if it is your second and third property and one goes into negative equity but the others are in positive equity, banks (especially if loan taken from same bank) would look at it as an overall package. I have also not heard of cases of people going bankrupt because they are unable to top up the loan back into positive equity while still being able to pay the installments. Properties are seen as long term investments where values are expected to go up and down and banks do not get too nervous over negative equity for the common man loaning a relatively small sum for his residential property.

FX is for cash rich Lords of > a mil to play to be meaningful :)

Indeed ...but thats cash returns in SGD ... for example a switch from SGD to USD at an appropriate inflection point may have yielded far more than 1% !

My sifu says sell high buy low. Sell the relatively expensive asset and buy the relatively cheaper asset. Portfolio rebalancing.
My two investment properties are probably about 15% off from peak.
But stocks are 50% off.
Thinking of selling properties quickly for a 25% hit from peak (but still 25% profits) and shifting to stocks.
What do you guys think?

Provided you can sell your properties in time to make the switch. With more people thinking like you, the 15% off peak prices may become 40% off peak very quickly. I think it is too late to let go now. You really need to be very lucky or sell them dirt cheap to get rid of it quickly. Otherwise, by the time buyers start flocking back to properties, the stock market would have already moved up significantly.

If negative equity, cannot refinance loans. EVEN with current bank. Mortgage rates will go to the undiscounted rates. Banks dont want to offer new packages because they know the borrower is stuck with them.

I know UOB did this to a shophouse in Jalan Besar. Loan was at negative equity. Borrower paying higher rates because cannot run to another bank.
UOB refuse to lower rates.

Someone quoted example of Asian Crisis. Banks asked for top-up when loan goes negative equity.
Should be for short term only since unlikely to remain in negative equity for very long. Even then undiscounted rates are not a killer if have to pay for a while. Looking at my own housing loan agreements assuming rates remain staus quo, my interest rates will increase from 3.25% to around 4% for long term after the discounted period is over.
But in my case the property market needs to crash 70% for me to start getting worried about negative equity and have sleepless nights.

I have not heard of any case personally but if that is the only property you have then banks may ask for top up but I am sure they are willing to negotiate. This is a lesser of a problem than not paying installments. But if it is your second and third property and one goes into negative equity but the others are in positive equity, banks (especially if loan taken from same bank) would look at it as an overall package. I have also not heard of cases of people going bankrupt because they are unable to top up the loan back into positive equity while still being able to pay the installments. Properties are seen as long term investments where values are expected to go up and down and banks do not get too nervous over negative equity for the common man loaning a relatively small sum for his residential property.

Banks FEED on the common man.....easiest to bully.

Ya. UOB never ask that shop to top up or force sell. But interest rate raised to 8% (vs 3-4% package). All instalments goes to paying interest, principal remains the same. Slave to the bank.

Linked the rest of the properties together....waiting to be burnt like Cao Cao...

Should be for short term only since unlikely to remain in negative equity for very long. Even then undiscounted rates are not a killer if have to pay for a while. Looking at my own housing loan agreements assuming rates remain staus quo, my interest rates will increase from 3.25% to around 4% for long term after the discounted period is over.
But in my case the property market needs to crash 70% for me to start getting worried about negative equity and have sleepless nights.

strong holders like you no worries one lar....

90% LTV n DPS buyers bot at peak (like Soliel & One Shenton) are the ones with sleepless night...

Provided you can sell your properties in time to make the switch. With more people thinking like you, the 15% off peak prices may become 40% off peak very quickly. I think it is too late to let go now. You really need to be very lucky or sell them dirt cheap to get rid of it quickly. Otherwise, by the time buyers start flocking back to properties, the stock market would have already moved up significantly.

dont know leh....somehow there are still some of them (die-hard buyers) around...

In hindsight, last year was obviously the time to sell but it is too late now.

Cat B COE $7589. Unbelievable.

I don't think it will be too late the catch the equity ride up.
Now that the decoupling theory and the non-US equity non-correlation theory are totalled demolished, emerging market / non-US market equity investing is dead for US investors.
STI isn't going to recover any time soon. I think it is headed for 1400s by the time I get my cash.
It is probably good for 100% returns on a 5-7 year horizon.

Now to get rid of my Newton properties fast!

oops...just happened in a big way, your word has been proven ----- Lehmen brothers mini bond, DBS notes 5, ML jubilee notes.....the retiree and less educated kanna bullied hard , e.g. of well educated bullied the not educated.....regulator sleeping and just wake up after the "restricted" protest ?

Banks FEED on the common man.....easiest to bully.

...

Actually OneShenton not really priced at peak period though - Jan07....It's 2Q07-4Q07 launches were priced at high...even up to now, new launches still priced high at 07 peak.......to clarify I've no interest in OneShenton, although I think location not bad.. some emotional as I've been taking meals at Lau Pa Sat for many years.......

strong holders like you no worries one lar....

90% LTV n DPS buyers bot at peak (like Soliel & One Shenton) are the ones with sleepless night...

Why the sudden COE price ? Anyway, not surprising on the huge drop for big cars....I went to Lexus showroom last weekend and ask for the Lexus 250...cool and beautiful.....ask about the price, it showed $150k on paper.....but the pretty sale girl gently told me, now very few buy luxury car, sell $120k if you serious ...:nuts:

In hindsight, last year was obviously the time to sell but it is too late now.

Cat B COE $7589. Unbelievable.

I don't think it will be too late the catch the equity ride up.
Now that the decoupling theory and the non-US equity non-correlation theory are totalled demolished, emerging market / non-US market equity investing is dead for US investors.
STI isn't going to recover any time soon. I think it is headed for 1400s by the time I get my cash.
It is probably good for 100% returns on a 5-7 year horizon.

Now to get rid of my Newton properties fast!

Actually OneShenton not really priced at peak period though - Jan07....It's 2Q07-4Q07 launches were priced at high...even up to now, new launches still priced high at 07 peak.......to clarify I've no interest in OneShenton, although I think location not bad.. some emotional as I've been taking meals at Lau Pa Sat for many years.......

Even Russian billionaires kenna margin calls. World changed liao...

[QUOTE=

Now to get rid of my Newton properties fast![/QUOTE]

Looks like Newton going to become an Indonesian enclave, as quite a few of them buy Newton area . If you had bought in 05/06 or earlier should be ok, still make profits albeit reduced..:ohno:

friend said UBS cut some equities staff today.

funny. that hk-based inv banker cannot manage $2.9k rental...

IB always been 'hire & fire'...anyone who thinks otherwise, are kidding themselves.




At least 20 Merrill staff here let go - Axe falls in last 2 days on those in the equity, fixed income and energy units

Straits Times, The (Singapore) - Wednesday, October 22, 2008
Author: Gabriel Chen

AT LEAST 20 Singapore employees of investment bank Merrill Lynch have been laid off in the past two days.

The layoffs were met with anger, tears and some confusion among the ranks of 700 or so employees at its Marina Bay offices.

About 10 members of the equity team were axed on Monday - that is about 25 per cent of the unit's workforce. Sources say that around the same number from the fixed income desk and several from the energy trading team were told to leave yesterday.

A banker told The Straits Times that he was told to go on Monday after being asked to see human resources in the morning.

'It still comes as a surprise to me, as I thought I would be asked to go only next month,' he said.

He has also lost out on his Merrill stock. A contractual arrangement arising from Bank of America's takeover of Merrill last month meant shares granted to him had to be 'bought back' by the bank.

But Merrill shares have plunged by over 70 per cent since their peak last year so he is taking home much less.

The average severance package across the board is about three weeks' pay for each year of service, he said.

The banker said before he left yesterday: 'You're seeing half-empty offices and morale is certainly not good.

'A lady who went into the room after me came out with her eyes red, tears rolling down her face. Some of the senior folk didn't even pack their belongings. They stormed out.'

One senior banker said to have been retrenched on Monday was Mr Mark Bowden, head of equities in Singapore.

He apparently came in as usual and was 'ready to do the lunchtime presentation', but never turned up.

'Mark Bowden has already left the company,' said the operator when The Straits Times called Merrill yesterday.

The lunch briefing was taken instead by Mr Yasuhiro Fujiwara, who heads the Pacific Rim equities desk.

'He said that they're done with job cuts for the year,' said a banker who heard about the talk from his colleagues. 'But can you really be sure about that?'

Merrill in Singapore declined to comment on the job cuts.

The axe has also fallen on Singaporeans based in Merrill 's Hong Kong office.

'It has been a long day,' said a 28-year-old Hong Kong-based fixed income banker who received her letter yesterday morning.

'I'll have to sort out my rent,' she said, as she ponders how to manage the HK$15,000 (S$2,860) she pays every month for her high-end apartment.

'Maybe I'll move in with a friend. If I don't find a job within the next two months, I think I'll move back to Singapore.'

The Merrill layoffs have sent a chill around the Raffles Place banking zone, with executives discussing the bleak job climate and how global banks are whittling down staff and cutting operations.

At UBS Singapore, two employees from commodities have been asked to go, while the investment banking team has seen reductions, sources say.

'The Asia-Pacific generally, and Singapore specifically, remain key and growing markets for UBS. Against this background, the headcount reductions are small. We also continue to hire selectively,' UBS told The Straits Times yesterday.

Cash still up 1% over last 12 months. :)


Singapore Dollar Sinks as the Flight to Safety Continues
WEDNESDAY, 22 OCTOBER 2008 09:03:47 GMT

Written by David Song, Currency Analyst
The Singapore dollar sank for the second consecutive day to its lowest level since September 2007 against the greenback as fears of a global recession intensified. The USD/SGD surged to a high of 1.5001 during the overnight session, indicating that demands for the U.S. dollar remains high as the financial market remains under pressure. The flight to safety has certainly helped to increase the appeal of the safe haven status of the greenback, Japanese yen, and the Swiss franc, and these currencies may continue to benefit as investors continue to curb their risk appetite.

Singapore Dollar Sinks as the Flight to Safety Continues
WEDNESDAY, 22 OCTOBER 2008 09:03:47 GMT

Written by David Song, Currency Analyst
The Singapore dollar sank for the second consecutive day to its lowest level since September 2007 against the greenback as fears of a global recession intensified. The USD/SGD surged to a high of 1.5001 during the overnight session, indicating that demands for the U.S. dollar remains high as the financial market remains under pressure. The flight to safety has certainly helped to increase the appeal of the safe haven status of the greenback, Japanese yen, and the Swiss franc, and these currencies may continue to benefit as investors continue to curb their risk appetite.

too bad for u.....still prefer SGD to USD. Of all the safe haven FX, SG never bail out any banks with funny money yet.....

too bad for u.....still prefer SGD to USD. Of all the safe haven FX, SG never bail out any banks yet.....

SGD is best for SGD expenses ... you are right on the count Sir.. but for holding non-daily need assets to hold SGD at 1% is a bit low ?
But as you say .. it is return OF capital that is the key now not return ON capital !

SGD is best for SGD expenses ... you are right on the count Sir.. but for holding non-daily need assets to hold SGD at 1% is a bit low ?

will be mkt timing. asset prices more impt to me.

besides, lazy nowaday. no good at FX too.

SGD is best for SGD expenses ... you are right on the count Sir.. but for holding non-daily need assets to hold SGD at 1% is a bit low ?
But as you say .. it is return OF capital that is the key now not return ON capital !

Dear sir, a most elegant way of expressing the theme of the moment!!

This kind of cut is small compared to 97/98...., 2/3 of IB, PB, trading floor emptied. HR ring - crying everywhere. Seen thr. few mergers in IB, seen this kind of thing often.... Got severance package okay lah...should say thank you...... some people work many many years, IB play cheat use dirty tactics to ask you go...without package, that's worst & it's true in real life !

friend said UBS cut some equities staff today.

IB always been 'hire & fire'...anyone who thinks otherwise, are kidding themselves.

market is irrational now. I it is the same when it hit the high.

Just collect good counters at hugh discount. 100 counters at huge discount is better than 1 good counters at irrational price.

I am at 20 now, 80 more to go.

Veru, Moet no longer cold; when you step into SG.:)

SGD is best for SGD expenses ... you are right on the count Sir.. but for holding non-daily need assets to hold SGD at 1% is a bit low ?
But as you say .. it is return OF capital that is the key now not return ON capital !

PAP still no plan for any off-budget measure yet...... Finance minister still staring blank at the ceiling ? Wait nearer to budget day.... .repeatable.....:)

High volatiliy is a common phenomenon towards the end of an uptrend.

High volatility is also a common phenomenon towards the end of a down trend.

FX is for cash rich Lords of > a mil to play to be meaningful :)

Get a margin account then.

can die fast........
:nuts:
Get a margin account then.

This kind of cut is small compared to 97/98...., 2/3 of IB, PB, trading floor emptied. HR ring - crying everywhere. Seen thr. few mergers in IB, seen this kind of thing often.... Got severance package okay lah...should say thank you...... some people work many many years, IB play cheat use dirty tactics to ask you go...without package, that's worst & it's true in real life !

Not over yet. Round one only. Round one still gets severance pay. Subsequent rounds will see cheapskate side of banks...

Wait til the M&A. Politicking shoots up as everyone wants to keep their jobs..

Not over yet. Round one only. Round one still gets severance pay. Subsequent rounds will see cheapskate side of banks...

Wait til the M&A. Politicking shoots up as everyone wants to keep their jobs..

That is why i feel so much better sitting at this side of the fence. BTW, Dist 15 condos within katong and siglap going to be hit super hard....

Last warning for those that want to get out. Get out now!

Those investors in the D15 gonna hijack our Ultraman :lol:

Those investors in the D15 gonna hijack our Ultraman :lol:

Actually Baby.... Everything as in everything is based on simple supply and demand.... Now demand is very low.... Unless very cheap.... Supply.... Too much coming up.... Especially certain areas in Singapore.

So what happens.... Evolution will take place....

Now truly is the starting of "blood on the streets". BB72 what do you think? Is this alot of blood or much more is going to flow?

Now truly is the starting of "blood on the streets". BB72 what do you think? Is this alot of blood or much more is going to flow?

valuation with margin of safety. Mr Market want to give u Great SG sale, just buy lor. Just shoot some bullets when chance come...

no such "super mkt timing" thing is whack everything at bottom...no one that accurate...roughly accurate can already....

buy some (not all) good shares now wont die.

Had stayed in Bukit Timah, West and CBD.

I would like to try stay at Meyer and Katong, nice beach.... changed my mind from buying at East Coast in 2003-04, instead stayed in D2......will price fall to 2004 level ?

Left out the chance to buy Orchard in 2005....hope to buy one for investment.....will price fall to 2005 level ?

The Great Christmas Sale is coming -> STI 1500 by year end :lol: ....this round Ultraman in SGP predicted better than Superman in HKG.

valuation with margin of safety. Mr Market want to give u Great SG sale, just buy lor. Just shoot some bullets when chance come...

no such "super mkt timing" thing is whack everything at bottom...no one that accurate...roughly accurate can already....

buy some (not all) good shares now wont die.

The Great Christmas Sale is coming -> STI 1500 by year end :lol: ....this round Ultraman in SGP predicted better than Superman in HKG.

Whatever man it is, it is going to be BAT(D)MAN! :lol::lol:

We have been warned from many months of the imminent tsunami.

The situation in US has been caused by toxic residential bubble. It's not as if they don't have public housing in there, but basically the dilapidated condition of these type of housing do not appeal to the masses. Furthermore, with the ease of buying private without checks by regulators (many blame it on emphasis / focus on foreign policies of Bush administration) and greed, the bubble became too huge.

Singapore has taken a different approach for public housing. HDB (MND) recognises the upward inspiration of all humans (maybe more so with confucious background and emphasis on family life, etc of Asians) and thus is always seeking to improve the public housing for the masses. Such vision and prudence has led to the Red Dot becoming an example for many. While we must remain humble, we cannot dispel the truth that in a overly un-regulated system failures would need rescue efforts from the state and the common people who are basically honest and hardworking.

This is the exact reason why the situation in Singapore is different. We are small, nimble and friendly. And we always seek to improve. Be it housing, education, transport, healthcare, etc. And it is this mixture of good governance and unity of the people to get things done that will put us in a position where many will envy and even be jealous of us.

And this is the reason for investing in the Red Dot.

The Great Christmas Sale is coming -> STI 1500 by year end :lol: ....this round Ultraman in SGP predicted better than Superman in HKG.

isnt superman of HK the richest man, LKS? Well, we know whos ultraman of SGP!! Our great Hayata :cheers:

We have been warned from many months of the imminent tsunami.

The situation in US has been caused by toxic residential bubble. It's not as if they don't have public housing in there, but basically the dilapidated condition of these type of housing do not appeal to the masses. Furthermore, with the ease of buying private without checks by regulators (many blame it on emphasis / focus on foreign policies of Bush administration) and greed, the bubble became too huge.

Singapore has taken a different approach for public housing. HDB (MND) recognises the upward inspiration of all humans (maybe more so with confucious background and emphasis on family life, etc of Asians) and thus is always seeking to improve the public housing for the masses. Such vision and prudence has led to the Red Dot becoming an example for many. While we must remain humble, we cannot dispel the truth that in a overly un-regulated system failures would need rescue efforts from the state and the common people who are basically honest and hardworking.

This is the exact reason why the situation in Singapore is different. We are small, nimble and friendly. And we always seek to improve. Be it housing, education, transport, healthcare, etc. And it is this mixture of good governance and unity of the people to get things done that will put us in a position where many will envy and even be jealous of us.

And this is the reason for investing in the Red Dot.

Last year when DPS cut, lots of people K.P.K.B. 2008 is year when socialism in 'in'.

Dont be delusional. SG only good for people with money & good income.
If no money, good luck.

Last year when DPS cut, lots of people K.P.K.B. 2008 is year when socialism in 'in'.

Dont be delusional. SG only good for people with money & good income.
If no money, good luck.


Very correct!

This is the time where the rich get richer. The poor gets poorer. The richer gets poorer.

This is the time where the rich get richer. The poor gets poorer. The richer gets poorer.

the smart rich get richer. dumb rich can get poorer.

if not, where got chance for people to get rich?

Agreed.

The Great Christmas Sale is coming -> STI 1500 by year end :lol: ....this round Ultraman in SGP predicted better than Superman in HKG.

Nope, baby, STI 1500 by year-end is just a number.... As what Sifu Shctaw says.... it is the component value on that point of time.....

For example, capitaland value during STI 1800points may be more when STI at 1500points. Actually now is already GSS in Singapore.... In fact if you know how to play the US markets even better.... Great American sale....

Only thing.... Some of us gets the thrill to trying to catch the bottom.... Which actually is not nessasary.... Whatever we buy now, as long as it is not a gambling stock.... will be worth at least 50% or more in 3 yrs time.

Last year when DPS cut, lots of people K.P.K.B. 2008 is year when socialism in 'in'.

Dont be delusional. SG only good for people with money & good income.
If no money, good luck.

I agree wih you!

market is irrational now. I it is the same when it hit the high.

Just collect good counters at hugh discount. 100 counters at huge discount is better than 1 good counters at irrational price.

I am at 20 now, 80 more to go.

Veru, Moet no longer cold; when you step into SG.:)

Follow Sifu Shctaw & Lord Veru never wrong.... Lord Veru on holiday in Paris.......

isnt superman of HK the richest man, LKS? Well, we know whos ultraman of SGP!! Our great Hayata :cheers:

Please, LKS is the smartest man in HK.... i am just some form of leg hair on him only.... In fact LKS predicts that this round may be a depression.... Hopefully not....

If that happens.... STI 800 points will also be breached. Everyday i may have to eat maggi noodles then......

the smart rich get richer. dumb rich can get poorer.

if not, where got chance for people to get rich?

Bro BB72 is very down to earth with his comments... Very accurate and sometimes can be very clinical... King of anaylst. The one eye king in the land of the blind.

dont know leh....somehow there are still some of them (die-hard buyers) around...

bb, you are right.
I've got BUYERS lined up to see the units this few days.
Yep, apparently, lots of Indonesian are interested in the Newton area.
For them, diversifying from Indonesia to Singapore makes sense.
It is like musical chairs.

Will probably be able to let go 10-15% off peak :banana:
Bought in early '06, so still sitting on good profits.

Wish me luck!

bb, you are right.
I've got BUYERS lined up to see the units this few days.
Yep, apparently, lots of Indonesian are interested in the Newton area.
For them, diversifying from Indonesia to Singapore makes sense.
It is like musical chairs.

Will probably be able to let go 10-15% off peak :banana:
Bought in early '06, so still sitting on good profits.

Wish me luck!

good luck! :)

bb, you are right.
I've got BUYERS lined up to see the units this few days.
Yep, apparently, lots of Indonesian are interested in the Newton area.
For them, diversifying from Indonesia to Singapore makes sense.
It is like musical chairs.

Will probably be able to let go 10-15% off peak :banana:
Bought in early '06, so still sitting on good profits.

Wish me luck!

Smart, earn less now, better then don't earn at all.... Diverse out to other products....

talking about newton... I love Amirylis ville.

market is irrational now. I it is the same when it hit the high.

Just collect good counters at hugh discount. 100 counters at huge discount is better than 1 good counters at irrational price.

I am at 20 now, 80 more to go.



Good to know I'm not the only one buying. Most people I know are panicking. They are avoiding equities like plague.

I've been buying US stocks the last few weeks. Only stocks with zero debt, cash rich, growing industry, favorable trends, market leader with defensible position. Going to do buy constantly over the next few months. I'm getting out of the property market until I see a significant correction locally.
I hope I'm not being stupid. Wish me luck!

Good to know I'm not the only one buying. Most people I know are panicking. They are avoiding equities like plague.

I've been buying US stocks the last few weeks. Only stocks with zero debt, cash rich, growing industry, favorable trends, market leader with defensible position. Going to do buy constantly over the next few months. I'm getting out of the property market until I see a significant correction locally.
I hope I'm not being stupid. Wish me luck!

Right now is just the beginning of the property correction... If you don't get out now... You will be part of the correction... Equities have already corrected... going in now is great...

You don't need luck, you just need money and brains.. Like what BB72 said.

2006-2007 is the years of the property boom.

2008 is the year of the equities crash.

2009 is the year of the total unknown.... Hopefully no depression....

Please, LKS is the smartest man in HK.... i am just some form of leg hair on him only.... In fact LKS predicts that this round may be a depression.... Hopefully not....

If that happens.... STI 800 points will also be breached. Everyday i may have to eat maggi noodles then......

got friend whole day eat bread (even ta bao bread to eat in office). Save all his money to buy Indonesia shares during Asian Crisis....the rest is history...

You don't need luck, you just need money and brains.. Like what BB72 said.

.

no la. I said still need a bit of luck.....sometimes can be 'sway' like buying Citic Pacific last week...hahaha

market is irrational now. I it is the same when it hit the high.

Just collect good counters at hugh discount. 100 counters at huge discount is better than 1 good counters at irrational price.

I am at 20 now, 80 more to go.

Veru, Moet no longer cold; when you step into SG.:)

i bought 1-2 week earlier....now drop another 30%....abit scare to continue

got friend whole day eat bread (even ta bao bread to eat in office). Save all his money to buy Indonesia shares during Asian Crisis....the rest is history...

Bro! One question. Would you scrap your car to collect cash to invest back into the market?

Please, LKS is the smartest man in HK.... i am just some form of leg hair on him only.... In fact LKS predicts that this round may be a depression.... Hopefully not....

If that happens.... STI 800 points will also be breached. Everyday i may have to eat maggi noodles then......

i am happy to be his dust mites

no la. I said still need a bit of luck.....sometimes can be 'sway' like buying Citic Pacific last week...hahaha

Luck is just a throw of the dice and expect to see a certain number.
Smart is to put weight on the dice to be able to get a certain number.
Money is to own the casino, so that your guys will throw the dices to fleece the customers.

Bro! One question. Would you scrap your car to collect cash to invest back into the market?

bro this is extreme.....show hand??

Bro! One question. Would you scrap your car to collect cash to invest back into the market?

dunno.....I dont drive....

Aiyo...no need to sell everything to whack it in stock market....remember still got a life to live.

no need to be too tight... cutting it too tight makes person not steady....things go wrong way for short term, worry like crazy...

Dow Average May Sink to 5,000, Boockvar Says: Chart of the Day
2008-10-23 04:01:00.210 GMT


By Thomas R. Keene and Ken Prewitt
Oct. 23 (Bloomberg) -- The Dow Jones Industrial Average may sink as low as 5,000 next year, a 41 percent decline from its current level, according to Peter Boockvar of Miller Tabak & Co.
``The market's going to overshoot on the downside,''
Boockvar said in a Bloomberg Radio interview yesterday. ``When that occurs, I'll be a raging bull.''
The CHART OF THE DAY shows 40 years of the Dow average. It last closed below 5,000 on Nov. 20, 1995. A retreat to that level would represent a 65 percent plunge from its all-time high of
14,164.53 set in October 2007.
Earnings estimates are too high and when investors realize that, they will drive the stock market lower, added Boockvar, Miller Tabak's New York-based equity strategist. Companies in the Standard & Poor's 500 Index will earn a total of $60 a share in 2009, not more than $90 as some analysts estimate, he said.

For Related News:
Chart of the Day: NI CHART <GO>
Stories on U.S. stocks: NI USS <GO>
Chart of the Days on U.S. stocks: TNI CHART USS <GO>

--Editor: Nick Baker

To contact the reporters on this story:
Thomas R. Keene in New York at +1-212-617-6411 or tkeene@bloomberg.net; Ken Prewitt in New York at +1-212-617-4819 or kprewitt@bloomberg.net.

Dow Average May Sink to 5,000, Boockvar Says: Chart of the Day
2008-10-23 04:01:00.210 GMT


By Thomas R. Keene and Ken Prewitt
Oct. 23 (Bloomberg) -- The Dow Jones Industrial Average may sink as low as 5,000 next year, a 41 percent decline from its current level, according to Peter Boockvar of Miller Tabak & Co.
``The market's going to overshoot on the downside,''
Boockvar said in a Bloomberg Radio interview yesterday. ``When that occurs, I'll be a raging bull.''
The CHART OF THE DAY shows 40 years of the Dow average. It last closed below 5,000 on Nov. 20, 1995. A retreat to that level would represent a 65 percent plunge from its all-time high of
14,164.53 set in October 2007.
Earnings estimates are too high and when investors realize that, they will drive the stock market lower, added Boockvar, Miller Tabak's New York-based equity strategist. Companies in the Standard & Poor's 500 Index will earn a total of $60 a share in 2009, not more than $90 as some analysts estimate, he said.

For Related News:
Chart of the Day: NI CHART <GO>
Stories on U.S. stocks: NI USS <GO>
Chart of the Days on U.S. stocks: TNI CHART USS <GO>

--Editor: Nick Baker

To contact the reporters on this story:
Thomas R. Keene in New York at +1-212-617-6411 or tkeene@bloomberg.net; Ken Prewitt in New York at +1-212-617-4819 or kprewitt@bloomberg.net.

WOW............... or maybe even OWWWWWW !

WOW............... or maybe even OWWWWWW !

Lord Veru has spoken!

dunno.....I dont drive....

Aiyo...no need to sell everything to whack it in stock market....remember still got a life to live.

no need to be too tight... cutting it too tight makes person not steady....things go wrong way for short term, worry like crazy...

I always thought that singaporeans of our age that do not drive are losers like me until i came across this website.... Sifu Shctaw.... Bro Bigbird72....
Haha, my respects.... For Lord Veru.... I guess has somebody to drive him around... :cheers:

Singapore inflation accelerates, seen easing on crisis
Reuters - Thursday, October 23By Koh Gui Qing

SINGAPORE, Oct 23 - Singapore's annual inflation accelerated in September on higher food and housing costs but stayed below a 26-year high, with price pressures likely to ease in coming months as the financial crisis reduces demand.

The consumer price index rose 6.7 percent in September from a year ago, and economists said it showed price pressures will take time to abate, reducing chances of the central bank further easing monetary policy before its next scheduled announcement in April.

Eight economists had forecast inflation to hit 6.6 percent in September from a year ago. The index rose 6.4 percent in August.

tanks big time, we'll stick with the next policy review," said Song Seng Wun, an economist at CIMB.

From the previous month, the consumer price index rose 0.1 percent after seasonal adjustments, the Department of Statistics said on Thursday, compared with a forecast for a 0.1 percent fall.

Inflation across Asia is expected to have peaked after spiking in the first half of the year as the financial crisis tames price rises.

Taiwan's inflation eased to an eight-month low in September, and India's annual inflation fell for a third straight reading to its lowest since the end of May, with a government official saying the downtrend is expected to continue.

In a nod that slowing growth posed a greater risk to Singapore's economy than rising prices, Singapore's central bank eased monetary policy for the first time since 2003 in October to let the Singapore dollar rise at a slower pace. The move came just six months after it tightened policy to flight inflation.

Singapore's central bank conducts monetary policy by managing the its currency within a secret band against a basket of currencies, instead of setting interest rates.

The Singapore dollar <SGD=> was trading at 1.5007 at 0543 GMT, compared with 1.5002 before the announcement.

The trade-dependent economy fell into its first recession in six years in the third quarter after exports and manufacturing output slumped.

"All the trends are pointing to inflation numbers falling going forward," said Joseph Tan, chief Asia economist at Credit Suisse.

"Right now, the focus has definitely moved from one that is concerned with inflation to one that is concerned about growth."

Singapore's inflation held at a 26-year peak of 7.5 percent in the second quarter but has since eased, partly as the effects of a two-percentage-point rise in sales tax last year faded from annual calculations.

The central bank expects 2008 inflation to be within 6-7 percent this year, and easing to between 2-3 percent in 2009.

(Additional reporting by Kevin Lim, Saeed Azhar and Lawrence Tan; Editing by Jan Dahinten)

Stagflation in a recession is a very serious affair.

At first thought of buying Marina Bay area but now thinking of going into commercial property rather than residential...

I always thought that singaporeans of our age that do not drive are losers like me until i came across this website.... Sifu Shctaw.... Bro Bigbird72....
Haha, my respects.... For Lord Veru.... I guess has somebody to drive him around... :cheers:

Bro hayata -- how the heck did you know that my wife drives me around ???
No one trusts my driving skills (or lack thereof) :)

Bro hayata -- how the heck did you know that my wife drives me around ???
No one trusts my driving skills (or lack thereof) :)

:cheers: My deepest respect for the Wise one.....

Lord Veru

Our Ultraman had been more accurate than Superman....why...more specific, spell out the index numbers.....so Ultraman say STI 800, that makes my leg shakes :lol:

Please, LKS is the smartest man in HK.... i am just some form of leg hair on him only.... In fact LKS predicts that this round may be a depression.... Hopefully not....

If that happens.... STI 800 points will also be breached. Everyday i may have to eat maggi noodles then......

:lol::lol:...to challenge him, i've been taking just two meals since start of 2007 ... just at hawker centre and food court .... no Starbuck, just kopi and with a "O" to cut 10c......:lol::lol:

got friend whole day eat bread (even ta bao bread to eat in office). Save all his money to buy Indonesia shares during Asian Crisis....the rest is history...

In 2002 i bought some shares on a US IB as the shares was at a low of 20+ after 911. I bought some every month for a year....the shares went low each month till 10+....I chicken out, stop buying , but stay invested what had been put in, .....it still go down, but a year later go up, and till 2007 at $50+...... :bash:, moral of story, chicken out too early.......be patient.

but for this round, i still think be a little bit more patient......we've inflation, credit-crisis, and now recession fear....price will need to go down furthur on the 3rd fear.....waiting for 3rd round of govt stimulus help across the globe...then hope slower decline to show sign....lost on catching bottom is okay.....prefer to start planting seed when winter transition to spring, rather than during winter season.

i bought 1-2 week earlier....now drop another 30%....abit scare to continue

i bought 1-2 week earlier....now drop another 30%....abit scare to continue

Started buying this week on borrowed money :). Off 10% already....
However, think will be safe.
Should've had patience.... was always waiting for HSI to be 13000 level, so jumped in too early on Mon/Tues.

BB72... LVS may be (big Maybe) safe.
They have Macau govt approval (intervention ?) to sell serviced apartments on Cotai, Macau.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=734192
They have reservations for almost 22% (or 65 units) at well over SGD2k psf (maybe SGD6m each for 2000 sf net). If these units complete sales, can get USD200m. If sell all, can get USD1bn. Plus can sell mall now (and maybe future timeshares). Plus obviously opens options to sell other parts.

Now allowed to sell assets to raise funds in Macau. Earlier govt said Cotai was supposed to be for IR/Gaming/hotels only. Note these units sold as NY style co-ops, where owners get 'shareholding' in building...(unusual structure for Asia).

This is welcome reprieve as LVS and maybe Macau market has completely halted...

^^^ Thks for LVS update..

Macau scared Sands go bust ......... anyway Macau almost 99% rely on Casino gaming ............. may be China will relax again on chinese visit frequency again

In 2002 i bought some shares on a US IB as the shares was at a low of 20+ after 911. I bought some every month for a year....the shares went low each month till 10+....I chicken out, stop buying , but stay invested what had been put in, .....it still go down, but a year later go up, and till 2007 at $50+...... :bash:, moral of story, chicken out too early.......be patient.

but for this round, i still think be a little bit more patient......we've inflation, credit-crisis, and now recession fear....price will need to go down furthur on the 3rd fear.....waiting for 3rd round of govt stimulus help across the globe...then hope slower decline to show sign....lost on catching bottom is okay.....prefer to start planting seed when winter transition to spring, rather than during winter season.

Actually baby, you are very right..... But, to do this means a lot, a lot and a whole damn lot of patience and research..... This is the department of Our King of anaylst.... BB72.

LVS Las Vegas Sands Corp 9.71

-1.98 (-16.91%)

Real-time: 11:16AM EDT Open: 11.78 Mkt Cap: 3.45B

Even CapitaLand can afford buy LVS.....

Wonder if Kwek LB still call Sheldon "big brother" since Kwek is richer than Sheldon now???

LVS Las Vegas Sands Corp 9.71

-1.98 (-16.91%)

Real-time: 11:16AM EDT Open: 11.78 Mkt Cap: 3.45B

Even CapitaLand can afford buy LVS.....

Wonder if Kwek LB still call Sheldon "big brother" since Kwek is richer than Sheldon now???

BB72..
Have also just looked at share price, off another 23% at another record low !
Thought it would've been good news, but obviously market thinks differently..
Yes, LVS market cap now near USD3bn, from 15x this level.
Soon, maybe any "brother" richer than boss !!

It seems that whenever a CEO speaks to dispel rumours, market takes it differently...

AP Today: Adelson Expects Asian Banks Happy to Lend
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081022/las_vegas_sands_adelson.html?.v=1

Greenspan "shocked" at credit system breakdown

Reuters – Former Chairman of the Federal Reserve Alan Greenspan testifies before the House Oversight and Government … WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Former U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan told Congress on Thursday he is "shocked" at the breakdown in U.S. credit markets and said he was "partially" wrong to resist regulation of some securities.

Despite concerns he had in 2005 that risks were being underestimated by investors, "this crisis, however, has turned out to be much broader than anything I could have imagined," Greenspan said in remarks prepared for delivery to the House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

"Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholder's equity (myself especially) are in a state of shocked disbelief," said Greenspan, who stepped down from the Fed in 2006.

Banks and other financial institutions need public support, such as the recently approved $700 billion bailout package, to avoid a serious reduction in credit, he said.

While Greenspan was once hailed as one of the most accomplished central bankers in U.S. history, the low interest rates during his final Fed years have been blamed for fueling

the housing bubble and eventual crash that touched off the current financial crisis.

The former Fed chair said stabilization of U.S. housing markets -- a necessary precondition for the economy to heal -- is "many months in the future." He said he expected the unemployment rate to jump.

At the heart of the breakdown of credit markets was the securitization system that stimulated appetite for loans made to borrowers with spotty credit histories, Greenspan said.

"Without the excess demand from securitizers, subprime mortgage originations (undeniably the original source of crisis) would have been far smaller and defaults accordingly far fewer," he said.

"The consequent surge in global demand for U.S. subprime securities by banks, hedge and pension funds supported by unrealistically positive rating designations by credit agencies was, in my judgment, the core of the problem," he added.

Former Treasury Secretary John Snow agreed that risk had been under-priced on a global basis. He said risks in mortgage markets were masked in part by accounting irregularities at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

"A critical lack of transparency in secondary markets left policy-makers and regulators unable to discern the true nature and extent of the systemic risk that continued to build," he told the panel.

Greenspan urged that securitizers be required to retain "a meaningful part" of securities they issued. He said that regulatory reform will be necessary in the areas of fraud, settlement, and securitization to reestablish financial stability.

He also conceded he was "partially wrong" about his belief that certain derivatives, such as credit default swaps, did not need to be regulated.

Lawmakers, with one eye on a general election November 4, lined up on both ideological sides of the debate. Democrats assailed gaps in rules and oversight while Republicans faulted government-sponsored mortgage finance enterprises Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for contributing to credit market strains.

"For too long, the prevailing attitude in Washington has been that the market always knows best," Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, a California Democrat said. "The Federal Reserve had the authority to stop the irresponsible lending practices ... But its long-time chairman, Alan Greenspan, rejected pleas that he intervene."

Republicans countered that regulators were unable to avert disaster because of the extended network of financial oversight agencies and lawmakers' failure to rein in the powerful mortgage agencies, which are congressionally chartered.

"It wasn't deregulation that allowed this crisis," Rep. Tom Davis, a Virginia Republican said. "It was the mish-mash of regulations and regulators, each with too narrow a view of increasingly integrated national and global markets."

Republicans circulated an October 20 letter asking for a government investigation of alleged fraud and mismanagement at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which the government took over in September to restore to financial health.

I always thought that singaporeans of our age that do not drive are losers like me until i came across this website.... Sifu Shctaw.... Bro Bigbird72....
Haha, my respects.... For Lord Veru.... I guess has somebody to drive him around... :cheers:

I have friends who drive while I don't. And when we meet up for kopi they expect me to treat them. :lol:
Goes to show a lot of people are cash poor.

This crisis partly (or mainly ) created by this guy, and Bernk has been cleaning up the shit.....wondering why he kept doing Big Mouth in the media after retired..... seem similar to the neighbouring country's famous Big Mouth.

Macau scared Sands go bust ......... anyway Macau almost 99% rely on Casino gaming ............. may be China will relax again on chinese visit frequency again

Maybe... but as US corporate, both Macau or SG will find find it hard to justify this on a "too big to fail basis".

It's 99.9% true that the more richer the more stingy....by proportion of donation to earning..., of course there are exception, but very very very rare. Most rich donates for purpose, status, tax ......most poor donates out from true heart....

I have friends who drive while I don't. And when we meet up for kopi they expect me to treat them. :lol:
Goes to show a lot of people are cash poor.

This crisis partly (or mainly ) created by this guy, and Bernk has been cleaning up the shit.....wondering why he kept doing Big Mouth in the media after retired..... seem similar to the neighbouring country's famous Big Mouth.

Yes, many don't like mahatir as well.:lol:

I have friends who drive while I don't. And when we meet up for kopi they expect me to treat them. :lol:
Goes to show a lot of people are cash poor.

Ya same here, I have friends who lived in condo and drive bigger cars expect you to treat them or go dutch. Never offered to treat anyone. Maybe their expenses are high and thats why they need to save.

After the SARS, there are a lot of people still stuck with property they bought from 1997-2004. Others are killed. Those whom got burn during Sars & 1997 asian crisis will be too scare to buy anything.

Ask around and find not a lot of people "stuck" with a bad properties position. I wonder who bought all those SG properties during 2006-2007?

I heard Macau casino is half empty (or half full); I could not believe it. Will go there personally to check it out in November. High rollers are avoiding Macau after new China Visa rule & credit crisis.

Maybe... but as US corporate, both Macau or SG will find find it hard to justify this on a "too big to fail basis".

The bigger you are; the harder you fall.

The bigger you are; the harder you fall.

Yes Sifu, that is why DBS from number 1 bank in Singapore just became the smallest..:nuts:

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/c/5y/_/_sti

Market going towards 2003 levels already....:ohno:

Yes Sifu, that is why DBS from number 1 bank in Singapore just became the smallest..:nuts:

Stupid bank go and compensate in full.



Just buy back at market price will be better for shareholders. Now shareholders punishing the bank.

Stupid bank go and compensate in full.



Just buy back at market price will be better for shareholders. Now shareholders punishing the bank.

Exactly Sifu.... HL finance says only compensates those above 62 and have no more then primary education.... Which is only a handful:lol:

Exactly Sifu.... HL finance says only compensates those above 62 and have no more then primary education.... Which is only a handful:lol:

Haahahaha..............

Primary school level cannot understand english. Something wrong with our education system?

My son 7 years old can do composition already. :lol:

Stupid bank go and compensate in full.



Just buy back at market price will be better for shareholders. Now shareholders punishing the bank.

Thanks to HK side I guess. A victim of those mis-selling will thank HK protesters for duking it out and HK regulators putting public interest first.

Thanks to HK side I guess. A victim of those mis-selling will thank HK protesters for duking it out and HK regulators putting public interest first.

No thanks from DBS shareholders point of view....:lol:

Thanks to HK side I guess. A victim of those mis-selling will thank HK protesters for duking it out and HK regulators putting public interest first.

Singaporean very well behave.......................

HK protesters lost around $2.5b; Singaporean lost $500m. HK should be more angry.....................

No thanks from DBS shareholders;)view....:lol:

DBS shareholders should be looking at regulator MAS for not vigilant enough towards mis-selling. Actually I suspect MAS doesn't even understand the products and their risks. :bowtie:

DBS shareholders should be looking at regulator MAS for not vigilant enough towards mis-selling. Actually I suspect MAS doesn't even understand the products and their risks. :bowtie:

Our MAS is like the FED in US.... Good at printing money.... Other than that...:nuts:

DBS is trading below its 31Dec07 book value... by about 25%...

Our MAS is like the FED in US.... Good at printing money.... Other than that...:nuts:


FED is own by bankers, MAS own by Government.

DBS is trading below its 31Dec07 book value... by about 25%...

GP batter NAV more than $2 but trading at $0.50.

The bigger you are; the harder you fall.

LVS ended up 30% off yesterday, below USD3bn, price off almost 95%.
Cannot see govt (mid-East, SG, Macau, China) buying due to 'sin' nature. They are supposed to pay the taxes, not receive it !
However, govt (esp Macau) can support in other ways (eg allow more mainlanders in, more asset sales or encouraging local banks to lend - last bit maybe what Adelson referring to in "Adelson Expects Asian Banks HAPPY to Lend").
Guess Asian banks will be happy to be told to lend (maybe including China, SG banks)

Otherwise, if banks don't lend Adelson will fall. And maybe would imagine a rich Asian billionaire need to bail out project with USD1-2bn. This now reminds me of Canary Wharf and WTC which broke developer. However, both massive landmarks eventually completed at 'peak of market' and also became successful with new investor.

In the meantime, massive and safer value in almost every asset today than to risk buying in shares 95% down.

I heard Macau casino is half empty (or half full); I could not believe it. Will go there personally to check it out in November. High rollers are avoiding Macau after new China Visa rule & credit crisis.

wife just came back from there. Not very crowded. Thats during the Chinese super long weekend..

high rollers (aka money launders)??? hahahahaa...

LVS ended up 30% off yesterday, below USD3bn, price off almost 95%.
Cannot see govt (mid-East, SG, Macau, China) buying due to 'sin' nature. They are supposed to pay the taxes, not receive it !
However, govt (esp Macau) can support in other ways (eg allow more mainlanders in, more asset sales or encouraging local banks to lend - last bit maybe what Adelson referring to in "Adelson Expects Asian Banks HAPPY to Lend").
Guess Asian banks will be happy to be told to lend (maybe including China, SG banks)

Otherwise, if banks don't lend Adelson will fall. And maybe would imagine a rich Asian billionaire need to bail out project with USD1-2bn. This now reminds me of Canary Wharf and WTC which broke developer. However, both massive landmarks eventually completed at 'peak of market' and also became successful with new investor.

In the meantime, massive and safer value in almost every asset today than to risk buying in shares 95% down.

Buffett quote time.

"Leverage is the only way a smart man can go broke"

Asian banks follow the "Take back umbrellas when it is raining" rule.....

Yes. Canary Wharf died because of overleverage...but recovered after restructuring....so must survive 'margin call'.

Singapore Pools (SP) is the best vehicle to bail MB Sands, if necessary. No public accountability. See example of Esplanade. Govt say no money. 'Bosses' just asked SP to undertake. No one can complain coz not Govt money.

F= ma - newton's law of motion....applies to anything you can imagine ;)

The bigger you are; the harder you fall.

Not just about size of money lost......it's about behaviour......Imagine telling HK protesters to apply for gathering permission, and can only protest gently at Speaker's Corner :lol:

Singaporean very well behave.......................

HK protesters lost around $2.5b; Singaporean lost $500m. HK should be more angry.....................

MAS officers are all very high ranking by IB standard - just graduated with 2-3 years experience is given associate director title, then 3-5 years deputy director, then director !!! :lol: Go and see their name card :lol:

DBS shareholders should be looking at regulator MAS for not vigilant enough towards mis-selling. Actually I suspect MAS doesn't even understand the products and their risks. :bowtie:

The older generation a lot of chinese educated......so cannot compare to recent generation english educated.....so this guideline is quite fair.

Not sure to pity those RMs .... for those got succcessfully compensated, full or partial , the RMs that served them will probably loose their jobs.....anyone want to do RMs ?

I felt this new CEO from Citi is a scape goat....everytime an Ang Moh CEO take place, bad thing happen at DBS, either bad timing or bad luck, don't know.....sure will not last long......



Haahahaha..............

Primary school level cannot understand english. Something wrong with our education system?

My son 7 years old can do composition already. :lol:

FED is own by bankers, MAS own by Government.

Government is own by $@$

Macau's losing streak
By Daniel Inman, | 24 October 2008

http://www.financeasia.com/article.aspx?CIID=126375


Has the gambling hub of the east finally run out of good news?
These are tough times for Macau as its growth story finally starts to slow down. Government figures released this week show that in the third quarter of 2008, Macau's gross gaming revenues were down 10% from the second quarter, a much bigger quarter-on-quarter decline than the 3.3% drop in the second quarter versus the first. Much of the blame is attributed to new visa restrictions imposed on visitors from China’s Guangdong province, which limit how often they can hop across the border to Macau for a punt.

These restrictions, introduced at the beginning of September, have left Macau unusually quiet: mass gaming casino halls are subdued and the high-roller rooms, which attract the no-limit gamblers, are empty. As a result, growth has hit the brakes. Last month, year-on-year growth in total revenues fell 3%, the first slowdown since January 2006. Total revenues were down a massive 24% month-on-month.

"With Macau’s gross gaming revenue growth already significantly affected by recent visa restrictions, it is likely that no further restrictions will be imposed in the short to medium term, unless Macau returns to its high growth path in the near future," says Jonathan Galaviz, a partner at Nevada-based consultancy Globalysis, which specialises in the hospitality and gaming sectors. He adds that before restrictions are lifted the Chinese government will probably want to see Macau's casino industry adopt better corporate and social responsibility standards with regards to problem gambling – something that, as yet, has not been adequately addressed.



cont.........................................................

Borders 25% & 35% disc coupons.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=27053126&postcount=21

Las Vegas is dying! It used to be filled with tourists from outside the US.
Second tier/third tier gambling areas will suffer a worse fate.
So, which tier will we be?

http://www.clusterstock.com/2008/10/more-pain-for-kirkorian-as-mgm-slammed-anew

Kirk Kirkorian says he's getting out of the car business (selling his Ford stake) to take advantage of compelling opportunities in the gaming business. Problem is, things are till getting worse there. Gambling stocks have had a horrendous year, and they're not turning around yet. Marketbeat points out that conditions at Kirkorian's MGM continue to get worse, as Fitch downgraded the company's debt and financing for its ambitious City Center development looks scarce. Shares of MGM fell almost 13% today. They're now down almost 90% for the year.

Conventional wisdom used to be that gambling, and Las Vegas, were impervious to recessions. But take a look at the website for City Center. Notice anything? How about the lack of emphasis on gaming? There's a fine art program, a spa, residences and a convention center, but it's not even clear that there is a gaming floor there. Would you fund those things in this environment?

This is true for all of Vegas, really, which has turned itself into a family destination at the expense of being a pure play on degenerate activity, which is more acylical (anecdote: there's a sad guy who lives on our block who, every morning while we're walking to the subway sits on his stoop scratching of lotto tickets. Unless he literally runs out of money, we doubt he's ever going to stop).

All that being said, the decline in traditional resort activity can't be the whole story. Over in Europe, where online gambling is legal, and its firms publicly traded, investors haven't avoided the pain. Shares across the sector are down over 50% in the year. When you see moves like that, you know there are few places to hide in this economy.

Lost some value in Gold & stocks. Market really strange.

I think cash is still king. If the banks want their umbrella back, there will be heavy selling in properties.

Must gather more fund ; just in case the banks want to do a margin call on mortgages. Do not know the health of local banks; but when banks are quiet, it is a sign of good health. (Lehman gone bankrupt 3 weeks after their CEO says they are OK.) DBS hit a low of $9.99/ value pricing..... :lol:

This is the first time I feel "scare" & unsecure. Dow Future are down 550 pts & S&P futures are LIMIT DOWN and it is only trading at off hour when all americans are aslept.

STI down 8%, really strange day at the market. Lucky my hand not itchy today; spend whole day playing PS3 soccer game. (Winning 11 part 9) I think must spend more time playing PS3 then looking at the heavy selling.

Baby talking about 15xx level this morning, and we already achieve that after lunch time today. At mid-day STI down 150+ points, that is hugh.

If Dow drop 1000 pts tonight; we will see a 14xx or even a 13xx within 2 days. That is scary; but hope to catch a good buy like Keppel Corp & SPC.

The Great Christmas Sale is coming -> STI 1500 by year end :lol: ....this round Ultraman in SGP predicted better than Superman in HKG.

Lost some value in Gold & stocks. Market really strange.

I think cash is still king. If the banks want their umbrella back, there will be heavy selling in properties.

Must gather more fund ; just in case the banks want to do a margin call on mortgages. Do not know the health of local banks; but when banks are quiet, it is a sign of good health. (Lehman gone bankrupt 3 weeks after their CEO says they are OK.) DBS hit a low of $9.99/ value pricing..... :lol:

This is the first time I feel "scare" & unsecure. Dow Future are down 550 pts & S&P futures are LIMIT DOWN and it is only trading at off hour when all americans are aslept.

STI down 8%, really strange day at the market. Lucky my hand not itchy today; spend whole day playing PS3 soccer game. (Winning 11 part 9) I think must spend more time playing PS3 then looking at the heavy selling.

good thing SG Govt gives deposits guarantee. If not, got cash also cannot sleep...

good thing SG Govt gives deposits guarantee. If not, got cash also cannot sleep...

I just talk about it with a banker today. I am about to transfer my cash to Hong Kong & USA. I also feel safer with Gold, Cash, Assets & physical goods in my warehouse.

Now I feel safer with cash in SG banks. Citibank staffs are now cold calling customers to park money with Citibank with a better yield. I tell them the more they offer; the more worry I feel about Citibank.

Mr Macau;

Any CTF goldsmiths shop in Macau? 周大福珠寶金行?

LVS ended up 30% off yesterday, below USD3bn, price off almost 95%.
Cannot see govt (mid-East, SG, Macau, China) buying due to 'sin' nature. They are supposed to pay the taxes, not receive it !
However, govt (esp Macau) can support in other ways (eg allow more mainlanders in, more asset sales or encouraging local banks to lend - last bit maybe what Adelson referring to in "Adelson Expects Asian Banks HAPPY to Lend").
Guess Asian banks will be happy to be told to lend (maybe including China, SG banks)

Otherwise, if banks don't lend Adelson will fall. And maybe would imagine a rich Asian billionaire need to bail out project with USD1-2bn. This now reminds me of Canary Wharf and WTC which broke developer. However, both massive landmarks eventually completed at 'peak of market' and also became successful with new investor.

In the meantime, massive and safer value in almost every asset today than to risk buying in shares 95% down.

I think cash is still king. If the banks want their umbrella back, there will be heavy selling in properties.

Must gather more fund ; just in case the banks want to do a margin call on mortgages. Do not know the health of local banks; but when banks are quiet, it is a sign of good health. (Lehman gone bankrupt 3 weeks after their CEO says they are OK.) DBS hit a low of $9.99/ value pricing..... :lol:



SMEs are facing credit crunch in face of LC/factoring. Cash stuck in inventories.

I wont be surprised if see some real firesales in property mkt these few weeks.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/video/share.html?s=news01n1533q4c3

sound really freaky....

The beginning of the end.....

If raise money from outside, means permament dilution. $10bn debt vs $2.4 bn mkt cap.

Raises $2bn in equity means current shareholders diluted to death.

LVS seems like a dead duck...


Las Vegas Sands Developing Capital Raising Program, Sheldon G. Adelson Family to Participate


LAS VEGAS, Oct. 24 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Las Vegas Sands Corp. (NYSE: LVS) today announced that it is working with an investment banking firm to develop a capital raising program for the company. Sheldon G. Adelson, the company's chairman, chief executive officer and principal stockholder, and his family intend to participate in the company's capital raising program. Mr. Adelson and his family recently completed an investment in the company of $475 million in convertible senior notes in a private transaction. The company will announce further details of the program in the very near future.

SMEs are facing credit crunch in face of LC/factoring. Cash stuck in inventories.

I wont be surprised if see some real firesales in property mkt these few weeks.

Even as i am only left with the property which i am staying now.... I feel scared.... I am very afraid that certain Extremely powerful and rich people will force the global economies into a depression....

I think maybe get ready to eat maggi noddles everyday.....

^^^ no need to fear.....

1 way to avoid irrational fear...

just calc the financial resources vs monthly expenses/commitments...see how long can survive.....knowledge/truth will increase conviction & reduce emotion-driven fear...

^^^ no need to fear.....

1 way to avoid irrational fear...

just calc the financial resources vs monthly expenses/commitments...see how long can survive.....knowledge/truth will increase conviction & reduce emotion-driven fear...

True.... If i do not invest or buy anymore.... I can surely survive the next 3-5 yrs.... Even if my property devalues by 200k.... But, the very thought is very scary....

This time a whole toilet full of shit may be going to hit the fan.... The splatter will hit everyone...

Buy when there's blood in the streets, even if the blood is your own.

Careful, when the trap might be to buy too early. We see fair value, but another furthur 20% discount from today looks possible.

Careful, when the trap might be to buy too early. We see fair value, but another furthur 20% discount from today looks possible.

Yes, most definately... very, very possible.... But my main fear is the Word..... Dxxxxssion.

I am guessing...just my childish feeling....most likely "U" this time...so no hurry....

DBS credit tightening a lot..... I was testing by asking all banks accounts I have to increase perm credit limit, other banks approved, except DBS.....


Must gather more fund ; just in case the banks want to do a margin call on mortgages. Do not know the health of local banks; but when banks are quiet, it is a sign of good health. (Lehman gone bankrupt 3 weeks after their CEO says they are OK.) DBS hit a low of $9.99/ value pricing..... :lol:

All banks are competing for deposit......walk around can see FD promotion....the best I saw was BEA - 2.x% for 3/6mths, RBS at 1.75% for 3/mths & 4.2% for US$........ Initially thought good to place since market volatile and govt blanket guarantee deposit...but thought over, forget it, the more risky bank on the recent news, the higher FD rate :ohno:....don't have lots of money anyway..doesn't make much different...poor baby anyway....

All banks are competing for deposit......walk around can see FD promotion....the best I saw was BEA - 2.x% for 3/6mths, RBS at 1.75% for 3/mths & 4.2% for US$........ Initially thought good to place since market volatile and govt blanket guarantee deposit...but thought over, forget it, the more risky bank on the recent news, the higher FD rate :ohno:....don't have lots of money anyway..doesn't make much different...poor baby anyway....

Singapore govt has guaranteed all bank deposits in Singapore. So FDs should be safe. ^^

Singapore govt has guaranteed all bank deposits in Singapore. So FDs should be safe. ^^

Do not know how the guarantee work in SG.

MAS should give more detail like how it works and how long it will take to get back every cents.

can anyone please inform the benefit of dual currency which earn a lot higher interest rate, any suggestion which bank are most popular in SG.

DBS credit tightening a lot..... I was testing by asking all banks accounts I have to increase perm credit limit, other banks approved, except DBS.....

Some interesting findings.
My credit card was charged an annual fee by UOB so I called to have it waived. Previously, it can be waived on the spot. Now, cannot waive immediately. Everyone is transferred to a IVR system and then have to wait 5 days as now the decision is done by a separate department.
Imm, is this one of the measures to do more "eye balling" of potential credit card defaulters due to the tight credit situation?

DBS credit tightening a lot..... I was testing by asking all banks accounts I have to increase perm credit limit, other banks approved, except DBS.....

Anyone notice that we got less calls to do fund transfers these 2 weeks???

Happened to me just before I read your writing......if don't approve, i cancel loh...still got lots of card after cancelling almost 10 cards few months ago so that my record with credit bureau looks neater.....:lol:

Some interesting findings.
My credit card was charged an annual fee by UOB so I called to have it waived. Previously, it can be waived on the spot. Now, cannot waive immediately. Everyone is transferred to a IVR system and then have to wait 5 days as now the decision is done by a separate department.
Imm, is this one of the measures to do more "eye balling" of potential credit card defaulters due to the tight credit situation?

hmm... UOB, DBS, RBS, Citi still chasing me to do with 2.88%...with no service charge....I say market volatile, throw anything also sink into ocean...but they still call especially UOB.....

Anyone notice that we got less calls to do fund transfers these 2 weeks???

SCB aggressive or desperate.....every Fri I take late dinner at lau pa sat.....I've been used to hawker assistants touting and throwing a menu card at your face, "Sir, Satay ? " ..

But over last 2 weeks, surprise when young chaps and girls in smart wear also do touting......I was shocked, when a menu card pop infront of my face, "Sir, SCB Platinum Credit Card" ! And interesting, they worked till 10.30pm :lol:

not. SCB aggressive. those are outsourced marketing agents. Paid upon success only.

yeah...that's my worry as well......now everything must be clear and simple.....not sure, forget it......earn less feel safe, better than have to worry just to gain little bit of better interest.

Do not know how the guarantee work in SG.

MAS should give more detail like how it works and how long it will take to get back every cents.

Don't worry. The end of the world not here yet. Char Kway Teow still cost $2.80 a plate at Bt Batok heartland coffeeshop. Take this few years to upgrade education. That's why I set aside some funds for personal development.

With SIBOR going down, the current FD promotions may not be here for long......

3mth 12mth
1-Sep-08 1.232140% 1.750000%
11-Sep-08 1.287500% 1.750000%
19-Sep-08 1.500000%
26-Sep-08 2.000000%
2-Oct-08 1.812500% 1.875000%
9-Oct-08 1.625000% 1.854170%
15-Oct-08 1.479170% 1.729170%
22-Oct-08 1.364580% 1.687500%

With SIBOR going down, the current FD promotions may not be here for long......



i think the foreign banks are making a strategic decision of building up deposits base...everyone wants to be less dependent on interbank funding..[Already see ghosts, still not scared of darkness?]

Storm over Sands in US hits local IR lenders
Damaging ripple effects as parent company of Marina Bay Sands integrated resort struggles to raise funds


THE Marina Bay Sands integrated resort (IR) has been visited by the desperate travails of its parent company, which is struggling to raise funds.


SHAPING UP
In August, Marina Bay Sands said it was on schedule to open in December 2009 and about 40 per cent of the construction had been completed
And local banks, which BT understands have a combined exposure of almost $2.2 billion to the $5.44 billion project, saw their stock prices take another hammering yesterday.

Already, Las Vegas Sands' share price has fallen some 95 per cent from a year ago. On Thursday, it was US$8.21, down from the high of US$148.76 on Oct 29 last year.

The company issued a statement to say that it was working with an investment bank to raise capital and that Sheldon Adelson - the company's chairman, CEO and principal stockholder - intends to take part in it, along with his family. Mr Adelson has already had to bail out the company once before, by investing US$475 million of his own money last month.

As concerns over the project increase, local banks are getting hit. BT understands that United Overseas Bank (UOB) has committed to lend almost $890 million to the project. DBS Group Holdings' exposure is in the range of $740 million while that of OCBC Bank is around $570 million. The banks themselves declined to comment on their exposure, citing customer confidentiality.

But as disbursements of the loans are progressive, according to the construction schedule, the banks are unlikely to have disbursed the entire amounts, one banker said.

'The development of Marina Bay Sands remains on track' was all that Ron Reese, vice-president, communications, Las Vegas Sands Corp, would say.

Bankers and analysts also agreed that fears of the banks' potential losses from Marina Bay Sands are overblown. If anything does happen, the project which has been touted as iconic by the government will be rescued, perhaps by one of the government- linked companies, they say.

'Indeed, given the importance of the project to Singapore, it is unlikely to fail in the development stage . . . assistance will eventually come - at a price,' said Morgan Stanley analyst Matthew Wilson.

'Hence, initial debt and equity providers may take a haircut. Since it is such an iconic project, it is a vivid reminder of just how bad things have become from an economic and credit perspective,' said Mr Wilson.

DBS closed 94 cents or 8.6 per cent down yesterday at $10.04 while UOB fell $1.72 or 12.5 per cent to $12.08, and OCBC ended 61 cents or 11.1 per cent down at $4.88.

The three local banks and Goldman Sachs were the original lead arrangers of the syndicated loan.

Fears that Marina Bay Sands might default stem from the falling revenues parent company Las Vegas Sands is getting as it is earning less from its casinos in Macao and Las Vegas.

Recession has caused gamblers to shy away from the tables.

Repayment of interest on the bank loans is generated from the cash flows of current casino operations.

'We're expecting the turbulent economic climate to have an increasingly negative impact on the corporate gaming operators with near-term internal liquidity remaining weak,' said Michael Paladino, senior director at Fitch Ratings. 'As consumers focus more and more on necessities spending, and we enter into recession, the gaming and lodging operating environment will continue to be under pressure, causing significant challenges for issuers that have substantial near-term refinancing risk.'

In August, Marina Bay Sands said it was on schedule to open in December 2009 and about 40 per cent of the construction had been completed. And even if the parent company decides to sell the project to another outfit, there will be bidders aplenty, one banker said.

'People will compete to be here. The biggest driver of casinos is competition, the biggest fear is competition,' he added.

The Singapore Tourism Board (STB) had projected 17 million tourist arrivals by 2015, although there is now doubt if those numbers are achievable.

This year's target of 10.8 million visitors may not be met because Singapore visitor arrivals are down. According to data from the board, June was down 4.1 per cent over last year, July dipped 3.8 per cent and August posted the steepest fall at 7.7 per cent.

URA data shows more completions put on hold

URBAN Redevelopment Authority yesterday gave the public greater access to data on property supply in the pipeline, particularly for private homes, detailing the expected year of completion, location of the supply by regions, and development status.


The additional information was included in URA's press release on Q3 2008 real estate data, although the information has always been available through its Realis system.

There were 66,422 uncompleted private homes from projects in the pipeline (with either provisional or written permission) as at end-Q3 2008, of which 23,008 units were in Core Central Region, 19,736 units in Rest of Central Region and 23,678 in Outside Central Region. About 51 per cent of the 66,400-plus total units in the pipeline are under construction.

URA said that 37,051 private homes are scheduled for completion between Q4 this year and end-2011. This is 20 per cent or 9,429 units lower than the 46,480 units slated for completion between Q3 2008 and end-2011 listed in URA's end-Q2 data.

Of these, 2,195 units were completed in Q3 this year and have hence been removed from the supply pipeline. Other completions have been put on hold as some developments have been postponed. Weak market sentiment and higher construction costs have also delayed the construction of some projects.


Notwithstanding this, the 66,422-unit total supply of new private homes in the pipeline is not far off from the 67,569 units as at end-Q2 2008. More of these homes may now see completion post-2011.

URA's data also showed that about 1.03 million sq m of office space, 500,000 sq m of business park space and 685,000 sq m of retail space are expected to be completed between Q4 this year and end-2011.

Projects that received provisional permission in Q3 include MGPA's office, hotel and mall development at Marina View and a 46,010 sq m retail project at Serangoon Central by a unit of Pramerica Real Estate Investors (Asia). SingTel was also given approval for additions/alterations to its existing Pickering Operations Complex and City Exchange at George St/Pickering St. The approval is for 7,860 sq m of offices and 300 sq m of shop space.

Riz Haven in Pasir Ris just slash the price of the new project by 25-30%. The new selling price are now $6xx psf. (Previous selling price around $850 psf)

Economic crunch & Livia low selling price add pressure to the new project. Although price have been cut, the showflat is fill with lot of agents with few customers.

Too little porridge for too many monks.

Waiting for high end developments at Orchard to slash price....especially the smaller players that joined the party during the peak.

Hope nobody in this forum bought the Spire at Chicago when they marketed here a few months ago......if so, has to worry now....This 150 storey development mirroring Sail has not even get the loan for constructing the $2b structure, and the architect has stopped work.

Waiting for high end developments at Orchard to slash price....especially the smaller players that joined the party during the peak.

Sing Holding's Hillcourt acq near Mt E. Next to Urban Resort. Sing Holdings got little holding power...Never made much money during run up. Then made big acq at mkt peak.

Hope nobody in this forum bought the Spire at Chicago when they marketed here a few months ago......if so, has to worry now....This 150 storey development mirroring Sail has not even get the loan for constructing the $2b structure, and the architect has stopped work.

Another evidence that developers will try to sell peakish foreign property to foreign suckers...If good, locals grab liao..

By looking at this Sat papers, Oz and Msian property mkt are in trouble..

Riz Haven in Pasir Ris just slash the price of the new project by 25-30%. The new selling price are now $6xx psf. (Previous selling price around $850 psf)

Economic crunch & Livia low selling price add pressure to the new project. Although price have been cut, the showflat is fill with lot of agents with few customers.

Too little porridge for too many monks.

negative equity liao....

Let Livia n Waterfront Waves can fight it out.....WW seems to building second showroom....Chip Eng Seng's Pasir Ris new condo (near to wafer fab) will be hurt in the crossfire...

1st batch of buyers will complain...happened during last property cycle. More coming....

Said before, developers will cut prices, whether it will piss off early buyers or not...need to save their own asses...