Philippine Defense Forces [Archive] - Page 17

hakz2007

April 10th, 2010, 09:05 AM

China's escort mission in Gulf of Aden visits Manila next week
MANILA, April 10 (PNA)—The Army and Navy Task Force 525 of China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) escort mission in the Gulf of Aden is to make a five-day port of call in Manila next week, it was announced by the Chinese embassy here.

The Task Force has just completed a 128-day escorting commission in the high-risk Gulf of Aden which began on Nov. 12, 2009, according to embassy spokesperson Sun Yi.

The Philippine Navy invited the Task Force, which is under the command of Sr. Capt. Qiu Yanpeng, the Deputy Chief of the East Sea Fleet of the Chinese Navy, Sun said.

Capt. Qiu’s command consists of two missile frigates, the flagship “Ma’anshan” and “Wenzhou” and the comprehensive supply ship “Qiandaohu.”

The Chinese guests, accompanied by Beijing's ambassador to Manila, Liu Jianchao, will be welcomed on April 13 at a ceremony headed by Capt. Allan F. Cusi, Director of the Operation Center of the Philippine Navy.

A tour of the Ma'anshan, docking at Pier 13 of the Manila South Harbor, has been arranged. The command leaves port on April 17.

Task Force 525 is the fourth escort convoy dispatched by the Chinese Navy to the Gulf of Aden--long been the scene of hijackings of a number of vessels on which Filipinos serve as crew members and consequently held hostage against dollar ransoms by mainly Somali pirates.

Six Philippine vessels were among the non-Chinese vessels that the Task Force has escorted to safety in the 128 days of its mission in the Gulf of Aden, Sun noted.

Other foreign merchant vessels and those of international organizations, such as the World Food Program, transporting humanitarian materials, as well as at least 650 Chinese vessels have benefited from the escorting mission of the PLA's Task Force.

The embassy did not identify the Philippine vessels while the Philippine Navy could not be reached because of the holidays.

It will be recalled, however, that in April 2009, ,the Chinese frigate “FFG-570 Huangshan,” of an earlier escorting commission, came to the aid of the beleaguered Philippine-flagged chemical tanker “ MT Stolt Strength” which had 23 Filipino sailors on board.

The merchant vessel had just been released by pirates off Somali waters after divesting it of all supplies such as food and medicine and was was in danger of keeling over while on the high seas.

Following a request from the Philippine government, the “Huangshan” escorted food supplies and a medical checkup.

A December 2008 Resolution of the United Nations Security Council Resolution (UNSC Res1851) on anti-piracy in the Gulf of Aden justified the Philippine call for help and authorized China's assistance.

China has been saying that its navy fleet's escorting missions demonstrate “a responsible role of China in undertaking international obligations and the devotion of its People''s Liberation Army to safeguards peace and security in the region and the world."

The fleet "has also played an active role in safeguarding security of Chinese and international vessels and crews through pirate infested waters."

China's naval vessels joins Japan, the European Union, the United Kingdom and other major navies in an international flotilla that safeguards the Indian Ocean--whose seas extends its gateways to Europe and Asia via the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea.(PNA) http://www.pna.gov.ph/index.php?idn=0&nid=1&rid=268940

Arvor

April 11th, 2010, 05:25 AM

The Mig 29 would not be a great idea altho it has some capabilities most airforces are starting to retire them as it is actually quite costly to maintain , this is why Malaysia is retiring their Mig 29 , a good , affordable and capable modern fighter would be the Gripen as ive posted before , but if the country is really cash strap a few 2nd hand F16's would be better than Mig 29's .

Ady001

April 11th, 2010, 08:38 AM

do you guys think the next administration will be looking to do a serious upgrade on our air force?..although i would probably think the Navy needs it more specially for rescue operations but i really do feel for our airforce.

that off course will depend on who will be the next leader.

i mean If they can't afford a serious upgrade. I mean its not like we need F22s of even F16/18. They cant even consider Mig29s which are quite old now would cost less plus still upgradable but still far superior any of our arsenal.

Maging katulad tayo ng Indonesia that instead of importing defense vehicles, make their own.

At least we could enrich our defense forces.

TFDavao

April 11th, 2010, 01:58 PM

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc102/dwn10po/20081222081753ENLUS0158324512299338.jpg

PA Special Forces (SOCom)

johnmizer

April 12th, 2010, 09:35 AM

merun bng mga missile ang army natin

TFDavao

April 12th, 2010, 11:11 AM

merun bng mga missile ang army natin

La akong nakita nung nasa PA pa ako. kulilat nga yung mga gamit ng AFP. kawawa yung mga EP na nasa field.

kalbongdad

April 12th, 2010, 04:42 PM

well you can say that they are not the best equipped army but definitely ready and in fighting form......experienced as well...

marxman

April 13th, 2010, 03:42 AM

well you can say that they are not the best equipped army but definitely ready and in fighting form......experienced as well...

i dont think a soldier can ever be ready and in fighting form if it is ill equipped... experienced yes, ready no...

Arvor

April 17th, 2010, 01:13 AM

I guess it depends on whom the AFP goes against , experience can only go so far when facing a large and advanced adversary where basically all that experience and bravery will be added the experience of annihilation ... .

Its probably reasonable if were talking about fighting the local insurgencies which are relatively low tech using 4th generation fighting techniques ... , we probably currently have a 2G to a very limited 3G capability making true 3g warfare currently out of the question and in which case ironically the country will have to depend on 4g warfare tactics ... .

However the current geopolitical situation of the region is so that the country can afford to neglect higher end capabilities for a while longer , the country barely spends around 1% of gdp on defence so im quite sure that it could raise the funds necessary to equip the military if the regional geopolitical situation turns grim , the question then would be experience and readiness in fighting at a higher technological level .

1st Generation: tactics of line and column; which developed in the age of the smoothbore musket.
2nd Generation: tactics of linear fire and movement, with reliance on indirect fire.
3rd Generation: tactics of infiltration to bypass and collapse the enemy's combat forces rather than seeking to close with and destroy them; and defence in depth.

kalbongdad

April 19th, 2010, 03:48 PM

there is no substitute for bravery in battle.....kahit yung mga hi-tech na gamit ng mga kano.....they never learn.....their asses were kicked in vietnam and kicked again in iraq......mga pang shock and awe lang yan...when the smoke and dust settles and there is the need for man to man combat....walang mga binatbat yan.....tell me i'm wrong....:lol::lol::lol: its not about the equipment...its about your love of country....that you are willing to kill yourself and take 10 or even a hundred invaders with you.......to defend the honor of your country....:lol:

marxman

April 19th, 2010, 05:36 PM

jpdm

April 24th, 2010, 05:37 AM

Dito, ok sa akin si Noynoy.

Sana ganito hindi puro black propaganda alam.

Anyway...

DND chief buys arms in ‘last 2 minutes’

By Jocelyn R. Uy
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 02:23:00 04/24/2010

MANILA, Philippines—A day after opposition presidential candidate Benigno Aquino III warned foreign governments against forging “midnight deals” with the Arroyo administration, Defense Secretary Norberto Gonzales confirmed he was engaged in a last-minute groundwork to acquire new weapons for the Armed Forces of the Philippines.

“We are rushing what we can still do under the AFP modernization program in our very limited time left,” Gonzales said in a statement. “Aren’t we, Filipinos, known to be good in the last two minutes?”

To expedite the upgrading of the AFP, Gonzales on Friday said he had set up a new mode of procurement which would allow the Philippines to enter into deals with “reputable” governments, instead of dealing with private suppliers.

He said this would avoid controversial biddings that had tainted previous equipment acquisitions by the military organization.

The AFP Modernization Act of 1995 was enacted to allow the military to modernize in 15 years with a total outlay of P331 billion. But only P28.9 billion out of the total fund has been allotted under the law, which expires this year, Gonzales said.

He cited “legal constraints” and the country’s financial condition as the reasons why his predecessors failed to aggressively pursue the modernization program.

“Notwithstanding the fund provision of the law, the defense department can only spend up to P5 billion per year from this fund,” he pointed out.

Aquino warning

Speaking before diplomats on Thursday, Aquino warned foreign governments and suppliers against entering into “midnight contracts” with the outgoing Arroyo administration.

Foreign offers

The Liberal Party standard-bearer said graft-ridden, “supplier-driven” deals to modernize the AFP were “being rushed even as we speak.” He said any such midnight deals would be scrapped if they turned out to be disadvantageous to the government.

Gonzales disclosed that the defense department and AFP officials had started considering various offers coming from certain countries. He did not elaborate.

Among the hardware the AFP was keen on acquiring were an armor system for the Army; multi-role vessels for the Navy; and attack helicopters, long-range patrol and medium-lift aircraft for the Air Force.

Gonzales said acquiring the equipment might take at least two to three years but the government was already doing the groundwork for the acquisitions before his term ends, as President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo winds down her administration.

Open to scrutiny

To allay fears of irregularities, Gonzales stressed that any deal resulting from these preparations “would be according to law and open to public scrutiny.”

Gonzales underscored the importance of pushing for the AFP modernization, saying a strong defense system was vital in building a “wealthy and progressive country.”

“It is not only about building our defense capability. It is also about restoring our people’s pride in their Armed Forces and triggering their pride for our country,” he said.

Copyright 2010 Philippine Daily Inquire

kalbongdad

April 25th, 2010, 04:03 PM

its about time.....dahil kung si noynoy ang mananalo lalo lang ibibenta ng mga tuta ng kano ang pinas...tingnan mo ang nangyari sa pinas ng panahon ng nanay nya....wala syang masabi dahil yun ang nagligtas sa kanya sa mga kudeta...yung sabah claim....ano nangyari sa panahon nya....i was a true yellow fanatic only to see myself betrayed by the so called people power....nakita ko rin na ganun din lang pala sila wala rin pinag-iba sa mga marcoses.....self interest din lang ang nasa isip.....a big disappointment...

jpdm

April 26th, 2010, 02:07 AM

Old planes on DND shop list, says bet

By Philip Tubeza
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 02:59:00 04/26/2010

Filed Under: Military, Government, Inquirer Politics, Defense, Air Transport

MANILA, Philippines—You can’t modernize the Armed Forces of the Philippines by equipping it with 20-year-old planes and “surplus” hardware from other countries.

That was the message aired Sunday by Liberal Party (LP) senatorial candidate Ruffy Biazon after receiving what he said were reports from his “military sources” that Defense Secretary Norberto Gonzales was pushing for the “midnight” purchase of helicopters worth at least P3.2 billion.

Defense and Philippine Air Force (PAF) officials denied that Gonzales was batting for any specific purchases and said no decision had been reached on what equipment to buy.

Biazon, a representative from Muntinlupa, alleged that Gonzales was pushing for the purchase of 14 Cobra attack helicopters from Israel that “are almost 20 years old” despite complaints from the Philippine Air Force.

Biazon also claimed that Gonzales wanted to buy “surplus” Canadian aircraft for reconnaissance, other helicopters, and then refit three Army divisions “in time for the Independence Day parade.”

“Why push for second-hand aircraft when the [specifications] are not what the Air Force wanted? This was rejected by the Air Force because they require new helicopters,” Biazon told the Inquirer.

“This looks like a supplier-driven contract and it will cost us P3.2 billion to buy those 14 refurbished Cobra helicopters,” he added.

Biazon said the PAF opposed the purchase because the Cobra helicopters were “surplus” equipment and ran only on “a single engine.” He said the Air Force wanted multiengine helicopters.

Time for scrutiny

LP presidential candidate Sen. Benigno “Noynoy” Aquino III has warned foreign governments and suppliers against entering into “midnight deals” with the outgoing Arroyo administration. He said that, if elected, he would scrap these contracts if they were disadvantageous to the government.

Biazon also pointed out that Congress would not be able to scrutinize these supposed “midnight purchases” because the country was in the middle of an election campaign.

“Also, it is the new administration that will be paying for these so why don’t we just wait after June 30?” he said.

Biazon said that Gonzales also planned to buy “surplus” Bombardier passenger-type aircraft from a Canadian airline that was no longer using them.

“We are supposed to use these as long-range patrol aircraft but I have received information that they have limited flying endurance. They last only for four hours compared to 16 hours of the US military’s P-3 Orion (reconnaissance planes),” Biazon said.

He said Gonzales also wanted to buy Kamam helicopters, which Australia purportedly had returned to its supplier “because of poor performance.”

“They are also supposed to buy new items for three Army divisions because they want these in time for June 12. They want to show off during the Independence Day parade,” he claimed.

The Air Force denied Biazon’s claims.

PAF spokesperson Gerardo Zamudio said Gonzales had left it to the Air Force to come up with the list of aircraft it deemed vital for its operations.

Buying Cobra helicopters was just among many suggestions that Gonzales raised during consultative meetings on AFP modernization, Zamudio said.

“Secretary Gonzales never dictated what the Air Force should purchase,” Zamudio said by phone, adding the PAF was still studying what aircraft to prioritize.

“The reality on the ground is that decision on the matter has yet to be made,” he said.

Agapito Lugay, Gonzales’ head executive assistant, said that during the consultative meetings held in February, two other alternative aircraft were considered aside from the Cobra helicopters.

“The secretary would never push for something that the Air Force did not approve of,” Lugay said. “His instruction was for them to decide on the aircraft they want to acquire.”

4 foreign governments

A defense department source confirmed that during a meeting in February, Gonzales said he wanted to present “something new” during the June 12 parade.

“He doesn’t want only to display new uniforms for the military … but at this point I think that’s impossible because we’re too close to June 12,” the source said.

Four foreign governments are apparently pushing through with negotiations to provide the military with a “modest but lethal” external defense system.

Gonzales said talks with the French, Canadian, Korean and Israeli governments were continuing and that suspicions of “graft-ridden” deals raised by critics had not deterred those governments.

“I talked to the Canadians and asked if they were backing out after reading these reports on allegations about midnight deals,” he said in a speech before the Philippine Air Force Flying School Alumni Association Inc. on Saturday in Lipa City in Batangas.
“They said, ‘Mr. Secretary, why should we? Our negotiation is within your laws. We are a reputable and respected government. You think we will engage in hanky-panky?’”

Canada was offering long-range patrol aircraft, which Gonzales said was essential to build the military’s missile capability.

“We have to have a lethal external defense capability because in the diplomatic community, we are being insulted because they think that we can do nothing when we are challenged … that’s why I am asking the Air Force to please hurry up to define what kind of aircraft they need,” he said.

Gonzales said that four nations were negotiating with him and that “two more are coming and I’m very happy.”

Nanflexal

April 26th, 2010, 04:44 AM

Old planes on DND shop list, says bet

“we are being insulted because they think that we can do nothing when we are challenged.
.”

Wrong line, we are being insulted because of our corrupt government official, from President > Senator > Congressman > Governors > Military but not all of them are corrupt. Pasensya na sa mga tinamaan But most of them are busy depleting the National Budget of the Philippines.

gaLj

April 26th, 2010, 10:56 PM

Those military vehicles are much modern than our pre-post vietnam war equipments.

Sokol-w3a is the most modern helis we purchased and can be converted to attack helis once needed.

And the only modern warship we have is the cyclone class warship which was donated to us by uncle sam.

AH-1 Cobra is still a good buy for us because it shares the same components/parts to UH-1 Huey Helicopters plus the Israeli will add modern communication equipments. I believe this will replace our aging ov-10 bronco bombers

Lockheed P-3 Orion i believe will be used for surveillance and transport. Since we only have 1 operational c130 and nomads planes are like flying coffins .

Gonzales said talks with the French, Canadian, Korean and Israeli governments were continuing and that suspicions of “graft-ridden” deals raised by critics had not deterred those governments.

France - possibly dassault mirage 2000 aircrafts
South Korea - possibly f-5 variants
Canada - frigate/ destroyer / corvette class warships
Israel - kfirs and ah-1 cobra

Nanflexal

April 27th, 2010, 01:02 AM

what will happen to the AFP if our government buy second warship / Fighter Plane? some will go their pocket to our beloved corrupt official and only them will benefit from it not the AFP.

jpdm

April 27th, 2010, 02:25 AM

Those military vehicles are much modern than our pre-post vietnam war equipments.

Sokol-w3a is the most modern helis we purchased and can be converted to attack helis once needed.

And the only modern warship we have is the cyclone class warship which was donated to us by uncle sam.

AH-1 Cobra is still a good buy for us because it shares the same components/parts to UH-1 Huey Helicopters plus the Israeli will add modern communication equipments. I believe this will replace our aging ov-10 bronco bombers

Lockheed P-3 Orion i believe will be used for surveillance and transport. Since we only have 1 operational c130 and nomads planes are like flying coffins .

France - possibly dassault mirage 2000 aircrafts
South Korea - possibly f-5 variants
Canada - frigate/ destroyer / corvette class warships
Israel - kfirs and ah-1 cobra

I'll go for the brand new Polish armaments like the helicopters.

Especially if there is a package deal of assembling the armaments/helicopters (we have PADC) in the country through a joint venture.

Second hands (20 years or so) are definitely not new and might end up as junks in a few years.

If we can buy ships brand new from Poland and alot cheaper than US again with provisions of local assembly (we have lots of local shiphards here tht are very capable)why not.

jpdm

April 27th, 2010, 02:29 AM

what will happen to the AFP if our government buy second warship / Fighter Plane? some will go their pocket to our beloved corrupt official and only them will benefit from it not the AFP.

Indeed.

fspooky

April 27th, 2010, 03:30 AM

PIA Press Release
2010/04/26

NPA rebels reduced in number, says air force commander

by Janinah Jimmin M. Molina

Cagayan de Oro City (26 April) -- The number of NPA rebels have maximally reduced compared to the previous number which was calculated at 25,000.

Thus said Maj. Gen. Lino Horacio E. Lapinid, air force's third Air Division Commander, during a press conference held at the Tactical Operations Group (TOG)-10.

Lapinid said, "Based on our intelligence reports, we have less than 4,500 NPA rebels nationwide [today]."

It can be remembered, that it has been President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo's directive to end the insurgency problem in the country by 2010, Lapinid cited wherein it is among the current administration's thrust to beat the odds particularly, to terminate hostilities with the NPA and the MILF.

As far as modernization of aircraft is concerned, Maj. Gen. Lapinid discussed some progressive efforts to effectively eradicate NPA rebels countrywide.

"…as of now, we are building up our flying training capabilities," he stated. He also stressed that 18 SF-260 military trainer aircrafts will be delivered by June 2010.

Regarding PAF's assets, Commander Lapinid said, "We still have two (2) Nomad aircrafts which are permanently stationed in Palawan."

He further said that the PAF has 15 F-14s which were donated by Korea that are being utilized at present.

"We also have several Fokker F-27 airliners," he said.

He also indicated that recently they had an exercise on search and rescue with the Malaysian Navy.

However, he admitted that the PAF lacks gadgets when it comes to detection of disaster. But, he elucidated that the Philippine Air Force is always the first to come and respond when calamity strikes.

The 3rd Air Division of the Philippine Air Force is the in-charge for the whole Mindanao. It has five (5) tactical operation groups complemented by elements of tactical operations. (XU DevCom / PIA) [top]

--------------------------------------------------------------
We have 15 f-14's cant believe it... can anyone confirm??????????????? PIA WEBSITE ito galing

bitoy

April 27th, 2010, 03:48 AM

^^ Baka typo o mali ang dinig ni Janinah Jimmin M. Molina :D

They must be the : 15 Cessna-172 (T-41B) donated by Korea.

http://www.xairforces.com/images/country/south_korea/t-41b_rokaf_67-15062_1.jpg

gaLj

April 27th, 2010, 03:49 AM

^
typo error yata

Wala tayong f-14 tomcat sa PAF inventory.

Meron tayong 2 Fokker f-27 pero naka-tambak sa hangar.

Englehart

April 27th, 2010, 05:41 AM

^^

hindi nakatambak sa hangar nakadisplay sa grandstand sa villamor:)

wait 15 f-14's grabe typo error yan........

kenken94

April 27th, 2010, 06:05 AM

My, my, my........... mga korakot na mga opisyales na naman ang sisira sa pag-asa ng AFP. :(

Nanflexal

April 27th, 2010, 08:21 AM

My, my, my........... mga korakot na mga opisyales na naman ang sisira sa pag-asa ng AFP. :(

they have sophisticated radar when it comes to money at malamang hati-hati na naman sila kick-back.

jpdm

April 27th, 2010, 12:00 PM

Englehart

April 27th, 2010, 02:51 PM

^^

ito rin pasensya kung front view lang yung sa likod ng 644......

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4557132373_fb0633dd78_o.jpg

Christian_123

April 27th, 2010, 03:01 PM

^^HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Kakaawa talaga ang Airforce natin!! Pasakop na nalang uli tayo sa US para maging bago kahit kaunti un gamit natin! Tapos, disband na ang PAF at AFP para US Army nalang ang mag handle!

Sobrang sakim kasi sa pera ang mga Pinoy at LALONG LALO NA UN MGA OFFICIALS. Makasarili masyado ang mga pinoy at madali masilaw sa pera...

Englehart

April 27th, 2010, 03:18 PM

^^

wala dyan yung mga pangkombat nasa clark yun......

kahit 4 na lang sila:ohno::ohno::ohno:

mrboy

April 27th, 2010, 04:53 PM

laonglaan

April 27th, 2010, 10:23 PM

nandamay pa ng sasakyan...

http://bp3.blogger.com/_iwecQmmIBuk/RjjailJL5-I/AAAAAAAAAOo/xVoyIaWhYPo/s400/huey+helicopter+crash2+04282007.jpg

jpdm

April 28th, 2010, 02:35 AM

^^

ito rin pasensya kung front view lang yung sa likod ng 644......

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4557132373_fb0633dd78_o.jpg

Italian trainer ata yan hindi yung donated by Korea. Brand new yan na binili sa Italy pero assembled sa Philippines.

gaLj

April 28th, 2010, 07:02 AM

Italian trainer ata yan hindi yung donated by Korea. Brand new yan na binili sa Italy pero assembled sa Philippines.

yup, 18 bnew sets of trainer planes from italy

the t-41b donated by korea are also trainer jets

Englehart

April 29th, 2010, 07:52 AM

Italian trainer ata yan hindi yung donated by Korea. Brand new yan na binili sa Italy pero assembled sa Philippines.

yung parang cesna yung tinutukoy ko:) sa likod ng dalawang italian crafts

jpdm

April 29th, 2010, 11:26 AM

yung parang cesna yung tinutukoy ko:) sa likod ng dalawang italian crafts

ok thanks.

I just hope, the Philippines will consider the cheaper and newer combat and fighter craft version of the s-211 of Agusta of Italy.

jpdm

April 29th, 2010, 11:55 AM

Improved version of s-211
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Aermacchi_M-311.jpg/300px-Aermacchi_M-311.jpg

kalbongdad

April 29th, 2010, 03:49 PM

sobrang boba naman ng reporter na yun.....bigla akong naalimpungatan...:lol: malay mo.....top secret pala....

gaLj

April 29th, 2010, 04:22 PM

sobrang boba naman ng reporter na yun.....bigla akong naalimpungatan...:lol: malay mo.....top secret pala....

malay mo naman meron talagang f-14 tomcat ang PAF replica nga lang :banana:

Christian_123

April 29th, 2010, 10:05 PM

Improved version of s-211
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Aermacchi_M-311.jpg/300px-Aermacchi_M-311.jpg

Hahaha! Kaawa-awa ang Phil Airforce! To all PAF Pilots, I have a suggestion to all of you...Switch to commercial flying! Bigger salary and better future. Wala kayong hope sa PAF kung mag stay kayo dyan!

bulakenyo

April 29th, 2010, 10:36 PM

Kailan po ba idedeliver yung Polish choppers? Sana augmented at may attack capabilities. ginoogle ko siya wala akong makitang date of delivery that's why i'm asking. thanks. :)

Nga pala, while googling some attack choppers that we can possibly acquire (dream on bulakenyo), i stumbled upon the F-111s of Australia. They'll be retiring them this year, in December. Let's say, i-offer siya ng Australian government, sa tingin niyo magiging magandang addition tong F-111s? Hay naku po sana naman within our lifetime eh makakita tayo ng fighter planes na lumilipad sa Independence parade ng Pilipinas.

Nanflexal

April 30th, 2010, 04:15 AM

jpdm

April 30th, 2010, 04:35 AM

what will happen to the AFP if they alwasy buy 2nd Hand attack Helicopter / Fighter Plane. tambakan lang tayo basura dahil sa mahilig tayo sa second hand.

Mas maganda bago na.

Kesya pinaglumaan ng ibang bansa e actually wala naman talagang urgent need for hi-tech fighter planes.

Ok na yung brand new na good for counter insurgency and foreign poachers sa may Batanes, Sulu at Palawan.

Again, Poland seems to have armaments that cost less and mukhang ok naman ang gawa nila. Mag-joint venture na lang.

O kaya Italian aircraft makers. may bagong version na ng S-211. payag naman ng counter trade ang Italy.Tutal may natira pang S-211 sa PAF at nasanay nang gamitin ng mga PAF pilots natin.

jpdm

April 30th, 2010, 04:45 AM

M-311 – Basic Jet Trainer / Light Combat Aircraft, Italy

The M-311 is a highly upgraded version of the S-211A, with new wing tips, fences and fuselage ventral fins, new avionics suite, strengthened structure and 30% more powerful engine.

The stronger airframe of the M-311 provides higher manoeuvrability, allowing evasive or combat manoeuvres to g-limits of +7g to -3.5g.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/m311trainer/images/5-aermacchi-m311.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/m311trainer/images/1-aermacchi-m311.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/m311trainer/images/6-aermacchi-m311.jpg

jpdm

April 30th, 2010, 04:56 AM

Wag na tayong umasa na makabili ng mga hi-tech na fighter planes tulad ng F-16, Mirage, Gripen, MIG, Sukhoi. KFIR nga lang ng Israel di tayo makabili.

Eto nakita ko sa internet, mukhang mura lang kasi light attack aircraft . Kamukha pa nuong brand new trainer aircraft na galing sa Italy yng SF-Marchetti

Pang-Abu Sayaff, MILF, pirates at foreign poachers...

AT-6B Light Attack Aircraft / Trainer, USA

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/at-6b-light-attack/images/1-beechcraft-at-6b.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/at-6b-light-attack/images/5-at-6b-aircraft.jpg

jpdm

April 30th, 2010, 05:21 AM

Eto uli bibilhin natin sa Poland..

PKL Sokol

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/Krzesiny_113RB.JPG/800px-Krzesiny_113RB.JPG

Eto dapat bilhin natin..pampalit sa nomad..

PZL M28 Skytruck / Bryza

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Krzesiny_129RB.JPG/800px-Krzesiny_129RB.JPG

jpdm

April 30th, 2010, 05:26 AM

Mahilig naman Pinoy sa Japanese made eto na lang

Mitsubishi F-2:lol:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/36thwing-aircraft-2.jpg/800px-36thwing-aircraft-2.jpg

Christian_123

April 30th, 2010, 08:40 AM

^^F2....F-16 ripoff :lol:

Then again...Baka mas superior ang technology nyan kaysa sa original na F-16 dahil sobrang hi-tech ng japan ngayon.

Since mahilig din naman ang AFP sa lumang gamit, eto nalang bilhin natin:
http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/35/27135-004-AAE5D4FF.jpg

Total naman meron ng HQ ang mitsubishi sa pinas eh :nuts:

Danny Chua

April 30th, 2010, 09:11 AM

Nga pala, while googling some attack choppers that we can possibly acquire (dream on bulakenyo), i stumbled upon the F-111s of Australia. They'll be retiring them this year, in December. Let's say, i-offer siya ng Australian government, sa tingin niyo magiging magandang addition tong F-111s? Hay naku po sana naman within our lifetime eh makakita tayo ng fighter planes na lumilipad sa Independence parade ng Pilipinas.
Hi! Mother ko taga-Bulacan din. :cheers1: (OT)

Hindi bagay sa atin ang F-111. It's a high-speed long-ranged fighter-bomber which isn't even really that manueverable and thus useless for our mostly counter-insurgency operations. For Australia with its large area it's probably a must but when based inside our small country the neighbors are going to become very, very uneasy because then it becomes a piece of equipment that has only one use - attacking their previously inaccessible capitals.

Not to mention that plane (like all large fighter planes) is terribly expensive to service and maintain.

Danny Chua

April 30th, 2010, 09:16 AM

AT-6B Light Attack Aircraft / Trainer, USA

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/at-6b-light-attack/images/1-beechcraft-at-6b.jpg
Liit nga pero laser guided bomb naman ang dala... :okay:

Danny Chua

April 30th, 2010, 09:20 AM

^^F2....F-16 ripoff :lol:

Then again...Baka mas superior ang technology nyan kaysa sa original na F-16 dahil sobrang hi-tech ng japan ngayon.
Yup. Ganun nga yun. Bale sort of localized upgrade ng F-16 by the Japanese (with US blessings). Because at the time the US wasn't ready to sell them cutting edge tech stealth fighters yet.

bitoy

April 30th, 2010, 10:57 AM

^^ Ang alam ko, yung mga binebenta ng US na mga fighters jet sa ibang bansa ay kulang kulang ang mga avionics, radar system and sophisticated weapons system.
Bahala na yung mga bansa mag modify, like Japan and Israel developed their own modifications, but some systems are still classified.
Tagal na yang F-16, we really need new cargo/transport planes and helicopters to support the troops on the ground.

jpdm

April 30th, 2010, 11:42 AM

Liit nga pero laser guided bomb naman ang dala... :okay:

Ture pantira ng Abu, poachers, pirates at marijuana plantations.

Nanflexal

April 30th, 2010, 12:06 PM

bumili nalang ng second na fighter mga WWI and WWII era tapos hati hati nalang sa mga Corrupt Government official sa sobra. oh diba Happy kung ganyan then yon Airforce PILOT nalalagasan dahil bumabagsak yon eroplano kahit walang kalaban. Happy mga corrupt official?

bulakenyo

April 30th, 2010, 04:09 PM

what will happen to the AFP if they alwasy buy 2nd Hand attack Helicopter / Fighter Plane. tambakan lang tayo basura dahil sa mahilig tayo sa second hand.

mukhang wala naman kasing planong bumili ng bagong fighter planes ang gobyerno natin sa ngayon. ok na yung polish choppers. kaya lang sana ideliver na para makita natin sa independence day parade. :lol:

Hi! Mother ko taga-Bulacan din. :cheers1: (OT)

Hindi bagay sa atin ang F-111. It's a high-speed long-ranged fighter-bomber which isn't even really that manueverable and thus useless for our mostly counter-insurgency operations. For Australia with its large area it's probably a must but when based inside our small country the neighbors are going to become very, very uneasy because then it becomes a piece of equipment that has only one use - attacking their previously inaccessible capitals.

Not to mention that plane (like all large fighter planes) is terribly expensive to service and maintain.

oo nga no. didn't realize that. kasi yung ibang bansa inoffer satin yung mga retired F5s nila, like Taiwan.

For maritime patrol and troop transpport mukhang ok tong CN-235. Co-developed pa ng Indonesia at Spain. Maybe we can pull some strings kasi ASEAN country yung isa tapos former colonizer nating tong Spain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Casa.cn-235m-100.35-24.spanishaf.arp.jpg

ferny123

May 1st, 2010, 09:07 AM

so ugly planes the PAF has

kenken94

May 1st, 2010, 04:46 PM

Nanflexal

May 1st, 2010, 05:00 PM

It really hasn't change so much since the 80's........ the planes are getting more dangerous for the pilots every year, definitely coffins they are. We have been so reliant on the U.S for our Military equipment while their bases were still here and now we can't immediately modernize our forces.

But Corrupt government official has been sucessful depleting Philippines National Budget and they have modern techique to divert public fund to their own pocket.

kenken94

May 1st, 2010, 05:50 PM

^ Well, blame them as you much but nothing will happen if the usual TRAPO politics will continue in this.........oh well......... blessed country. Politics will greatly affect the stature of our forces since it's politicians who does the trick to get the funds to their own wallets. The situation's getting hopeless every year but it's not the time to get all gloom and doom now since it is already time to vote!

Nanflexal

May 2nd, 2010, 12:03 AM

It really sad but Corruption is not only real but rampant as well. only the "DEUTERIUM : The White Gold of The Philippines" are our hope so the philippines can shine again. it's only matter of time and when that time come the philippines will become the number 1 riches nation.

But considering the present situation and upcoming president but corrupt also, I hope GOD will keep this DEUTERIUM away from Bad Government and individual.

kalbongdad

May 2nd, 2010, 08:21 AM

bulakenyo

May 2nd, 2010, 10:18 AM

^^ puwede! set up an account tapos promote natin sa internet for donations.
mahirap lang po ako kaya maliit lang ang maidodonate ko. tulong ako sa pagpromote nyan sa mga kakilala ko. hopefully this gets to the officials at mahiya naman sila sa sambayanang Pilipino.

jpdm

May 2nd, 2010, 10:58 AM

alam nyo kesa ngak ngak tayo ng ngak ngak dito....i suggest and officially propose that we start a group with the purpose of putting up a fund to finance the purchase ng pinapangarap nyong aircraftor naval vessel........magdonate tayo ng kahit tig pipiso...to donate fighter aircrafts for the paf and boats to the navy.....this has been done before in other countries...like taiwan and thailand....wag na tayong maghintay ng international crisis bago kumilos...

Ngak ngak ka ng ngak e di ikaw mauna.

Forum ito natural.

Masyado ka kasing lasing sa pagsaba kay GLoria.

Deus Ex

May 2nd, 2010, 11:41 AM

so ugly planes the PAF has
oo nga mukang tae tlga yung mga turbo prop na yan. mukang tae compared sa f-16 ng thailand at sukhoi ng indonesia:lol:

kubwak

May 2nd, 2010, 12:22 PM

ugly is way better than nuffink

kalbongdad

May 2nd, 2010, 02:20 PM

Ngak ngak ka ng ngak e di ikaw mauna.

Forum ito natural.

Masyado ka kasing lasing sa pagsaba kay GLoria.

wawa ka naman you cannot see beyond teeny weeny world....kala mo kay little evil gloria lang umiikot ang mundo....such a loser yaya....:lol:

b_two

May 2nd, 2010, 03:52 PM

break muna tayo. eto top secret, paf mig35:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg93/b_two/MiG-35_.jpg

sa sobrang top secret it would be better daw to keep it a secret... forever. :cheers:

kenken94

May 2nd, 2010, 05:14 PM

I don't think we should do any donation campaign for the PAF since the very taxes and VATs we pay are already going to Government branches like the Military, it's just about deciding the right amount of allocations of funds and how corrupt the handling officials are.

Nanflexal

May 3rd, 2010, 01:12 AM

alam nyo kesa ngak ngak tayo ng ngak ngak dito....i suggest and officially propose that we start a group with the purpose of putting up a fund to finance the purchase ng pinapangarap nyong aircraftor naval vessel........magdonate tayo ng kahit tig pipiso...to donate fighter aircrafts for the paf and boats to the navy.....this has been done before in other countries...like taiwan and thailand....wag na tayong maghintay ng international crisis bago kumilos...

pwedi to pero ang tanong nalang dyan, pwedi ba natin pagkatiwalaan ang mga yan. baka ibulsa lang nila dahil pera yan at alam mo naman na pag dating sa pera mabilis sila or baka ibili pa ng weapon yan para sa kalaban.

Maharlikan

May 3rd, 2010, 01:17 AM

break muna tayo. eto top secret, paf mig35:

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg93/b_two/MiG-35_.jpg

sa sobrang top secret it would be better daw to keep it a secret... forever. :cheers:

MIG35 looks like a F16 tomcat.

Maharlikan

May 3rd, 2010, 01:36 AM

jpdm

May 3rd, 2010, 03:42 AM

wawa ka naman you cannot see beyond teeny weeny world....kala mo kay little evil gloria lang umiikot ang mundo....such a loser yaya....:lol:

Actually ikaw ang loser, you keep on loving a loser soon to be former President.

Taga mo sa bato, history will be harsh with your GOD, Gloria Arroyo.

Loser.

Nanflexal

May 3rd, 2010, 05:47 AM

Long_mane

May 3rd, 2010, 03:01 PM

GeorgeParilla's Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/georgeparrilla/3013821223/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3012/3013821223_42c46549e3_b.jpg

jpdm

May 3rd, 2010, 03:27 PM

sino ba ang intrisadong gumawa ng foundation dedicated for APF modernization program, magandang idea mag donate nalang tayo to help fast track the APF modernization.

my suggestion, create a dedicated organization / foundation that will manage donation and this organization / foundation should not hire malitary official and government official. we can do this guys. think about it.

i can setup a site that can accept donation but its not simple as that, we need credibility to earn thier trust. paki post nalang ng mga suggestion nyo kung paano tayo makakuha ng credibility.

thanks and let ushelp our APF not the corrupt APF official.

Its a waste of time and effort Im telling you. Sagad sa buto ang kawalangyaan ng mga ibang AFP generals.

Tingnan nyo na lang yung bahay ng mga generals a Fort Bonifacio at sa bahay ng mga enlisted men.

No wonder, maraming junior officials and some generals with conscience ang galit sa kabaro nilang mga corrupt.

Nanflexal

May 3rd, 2010, 04:23 PM

Its a waste of time and effort Im telling you. Sagad sa buto ang kawalangyaan ng mga ibang AFP generals.

Tingnan nyo na lang yung bahay ng mga generals a Fort Bonifacio at sa bahay ng mga enlisted men.

No wonder, maraming junior officials and some generals with conscience ang galit sa kabaro nilang mga corrupt.

yon lang ang problema. sino ba naman gaganahan dyan tsk tsk.

greenice

May 4th, 2010, 07:20 AM

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/28716_118387484845594_1000002302911.jpg

jpdm

May 4th, 2010, 07:29 AM

O eto para makapagtipid ng konti, mapagkasya ang maliit na pera ng AFP makakadagdag pa ng trabaho sa maraming PInoy.

http://www.manilatimes.net/images/stories/rokstories/2010/0504/gun.jpg
Arms to order in Philippines’ gunsmith city DANAO: A casually dressed salesman held court in a cramped central Philippine backyard workshop, his only merchandise a shiny .45-calibre pistol wrapped in oily newsprint.

Arms to order in Philippines’ gunsmith city

Tuesday, 04 May 2010 00:00
Manila TImes

[aborers work on guns at the cooperative workshop of the WorkersLeague of Danao in Danao, Cebu province. In the small, quiet city ofDanao, skilled but unlicensed gunsmiths toil away in secret shops hiddenamong warrens of crowded hovels, pursuing a generations-old traditionthat emerged from a culture of political violence. AFP PHOT] DANAO: A casually dressed salesman held court in a cramped central Philippine backyard workshop, his only merchandise a shiny .45-calibre pistol wrapped in oily newsprint.

The weapon, lacking serial numbers, was stenciled with information that it was made in a nonexistent place called “Fort Lauderdale, Florida, Canada.” It cost about $75, half the price of an imported, licensed equivalent.

“One week,” the unnamed man signaled with his fingers to an Agence France-Presse reporter making a furtive visit, indicating the delivery time, before quietly asking how many firearms the potential buyers needed.

In the small, quiet city of Danao, skilled but unlicensed gunsmiths toil away in secret shops hidden among warrens of crowded hovels, pursuing a generations-old tradition that emerged from a culture of political violence.

Danao after World War II was known as the fiefdom of the late Ramon Durano, its long-time mayor and known as a local strongman.

He established the foundries that started the gunsmiths on their way, said his grandson Oscar Rodriguez.

“My grandfather was known as a warlord during those days, when politicians were known for their guns, goons and gold,” said Rodriguez, a member of the city council.

Danao has since gained fame, or infamy, as one of the Philippines’ centers of gun-making excellence with whole families and villages making thousands of firearms a year.

They contribute to the more than three million guns in circulation across the Philippines, a plethora of firearms that is a key reason behind the nation’s many politically related killings.

The underground industry is allowed to continue with little interference from authorities.

Nearly 100 people have been killed in political violence ahead of next week’s national elections, according to police statistics.

The suspects include Maoist guerrillas as well as hired guns employed by politicians in some of the most fiercely contested of the 17,000 posts up for grabs.

Jose Thaddeus Roble, the secretary to the Danao mayor, concedes some of the local gunsmiths’ output may have gone to criminals, but insists the gunsmiths should not be blamed for the violence.

“It depends on who uses the firearms,” Roble said.

He also said authorities were trying to bring the illegal gunsmiths in from the cold to stop their products getting into the hands of criminals or modern-day political warlords.

“Some gunmakers have agreed to join a cooperative, who also include financiers and runners,” said Roble, who helped organize the group along with a representative from the national police’s firearms and explosives unit.

“Now they have vaults where their output is inventoried by the police. After that the guns can be sold directly to gun stores or to security agencies,” he added.

“It is better that the activity gets regulated so the output does not fall into the hands of criminals.”

The cooperative, now with 300 members, is housed in a poorly lit, rundown warehouse across the road from a sugar mill, both owned by the Durano family.

At least a dozen men, some stripped to their waists work the hand-operated milling and lathe machines, grinders and portable drills. They make about 30 pieces a month, said Dax Banzon, treasurer of the cooperative.

“They can copy any gun,” he told Agence France-Presse. However, they make mostly 9-millimeter and .38-caliber pistols.

The legal Danao gunsmiths hope to convince the government that the products are good enough to be used by the nation’s military and police.

However, Roble says they are unlikely to succeed because of a strong lobby from firearms importers, including those who have a lock on supply contracts with the military and police.

Meanwhile, many other Danao gunsmiths have refused to join the cooperative, called World Workers’ League of Danao, meaning an underground market continues to thrive.

“They are reluctant to sign up because they would be identified as gunmakers,” said Roble.

kenken94

May 4th, 2010, 07:47 AM

Uu nga, instead of buying all equipments overseas, ba't di nalang sa local producers ng mga baril, makakatipid na sila, marami pang magkakatrabaho. This is a potentially healthy industry lalo na't kailang-kailangan natin ng mga bagong armas para sa lumang AFP. We have the resources naman, the manpower, it's just that the government isn't likely looking at this mini industry when it is needed most.

jcb

May 4th, 2010, 08:15 PM

jcb

May 4th, 2010, 08:18 PM

Nakakalungkot talaga corruption sa AFP! Papaano aangat ang sandatahan natin kung yung mga nasa itaas eh corrupt.

jpdm

May 5th, 2010, 01:47 AM

We can even produce small tanks and even small planes with technical assistance from other countries.

bitoy

May 5th, 2010, 08:38 AM

And we can developed our own guns also from pistol up to machine gun! Di ba? Di naman kailangan na mag-produce agad tayo ng mga Aircraft, tanks an ship. Its better na pa-unti unti malay natin in the few years time isa ang pilipinas nag-proproduce ng mga armas!

Magaganda yung mga gawang baril sa atin, parang original. But promoting them need some R&Ds and fundings kung hindi maramng maaksidente. :D

bulakenyo

May 5th, 2010, 03:24 PM

or yung mga local shipbuilders natin puwede icommision ng gobyerno para gumawa ng patrol vessels para sa navy natin.

Nanflexal

May 5th, 2010, 03:40 PM

ang problema busy ang mga Corrupt official nating depleting philippines national budget. dapat sila ang ipadala sa mindanao. pwedi ba yon hehehe. bwuset na mga official na yan na mga corrupt.

Arvor

May 6th, 2010, 05:59 AM

In CdeO Airport

That looked like a scene from the Vietnam war movie bat 21 lol .

----

The country can afford a few brand new and modern fighters , im not fond of the idea tho of settling for Polish equipment in the long term , its ok for counter insurgencies but not really ideal for national defense , it would be best to acquire equipment that is compatible with Nato , western and US allies in the Pacific ( Japan , S.Korea , Australia Singapore etc ) combat systems .

I dont agree either with the idea of basically redesigning the wheel ( producing our own gun models ) it would be a rather useless waste of limited budgets for relatively low tech stuff that already exists , if its really desired to have them made in the PI , its possible to mass produce any weapon that already exist through licensing agreements and as for building our own aircraft and ships basically same thing , we can build the basic frames but will still have to purchase the high tech equipment components overseas .

Designing weapons are quite expensive and requires a broad industrial base , no doubt the country can someday build more complicated and effective weapons systems but it will take time and focused policies to do so , in the mean time its best to buy few but brand new and effective equipment .

http://www.meretmarine.com/objets/500/4610.jpg
Rolls Royce UT design OPV's ( ocean patrol vessels )

In the article it says that they are looking for multi purpose vessels for the navy , for this i think that the Rolls Royce UT designs such as this one above for the Norwegian coastguard would be adequate , it is lightly armed but suited for the task of fisheries and economic zone patrols , they can also be modified to have a well deck or a small helicopter platform and light cargo /transport roles aswell as fire fighting at sea/rescue and for ocean tug duties ( given the countries frequent ship disasters these types of ships would definetely come in handy ) .

http://www.maritimeandenergy.com/marinenorway/bilder/rolls-royceut517ill500p_27.06.jpg
Here's one version ordered by the Indian coastguard .

Obviously the navy would later require something more sophisticated to defend territorial waters against other navies ... .

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI3U/SP4QfvUb5BI/AAAAAAAAAVU/Zza2z-CbDt0/s400/C-295MPA.jpg
EADS CN 295 aircraft are probably best for multi purpose light transport and patrol .

http://www.yalibnan.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ethiopia-airline-crash-lebanon-Lockheed_P-3_Orion_0352.jpg
But id go for the P3 Orion if we want a dedicated naval surveillance aircraft which can be armed with anti ship/submarine capabilities .

Christian_123

May 6th, 2010, 10:43 AM

Why can't we tap Hanjin Ship building company na naka base lang sa Subic? If i remember correctly, They build warships for MALAYSIA even though naka base sila sa lupain natin..

Arvor

May 6th, 2010, 01:11 PM

If they ordered new ships its possible that they could probably ask Hanjin to build them there .

----

The thing is if we want a defense industry in the Phillipines we would need other types of civilian industries aswell because alot of the production technology can be dual use , it also means a long term industrial plan and investment to make it a reality .

If i could dream id say ..

Every region in the country should have their own specialty Manila is the financial and economic capital , subic and clark have logistics and dmia , the Visayas have tourism etc , i think it would be great if they concentrate the defence industry in Bataan province .

They could perhaps create a large combined forces base navy , air force , army , marines on Bataan's Manila bay coast kindof like Fort Hood Texas meets Norfolk naval base Virginia , this could become the main military installation of the country , the navy can then shut down sangley in Cavite so that it can be transformed into an airport .

Large parts of Bataan is composed of national parks they could then alot the remaining land to the military as training grounds , then cluster all defence industries in the towns and cities around the base , this will create better synergies between the military and a defence industry .

TheAvenger

May 7th, 2010, 11:40 PM

http://jesusabernardo.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/10/4001355-filipino-dies-inside-us-army-camp-in-marawi-philippines-suicide-or-made-a-sex-pet

Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:38 AM EST

On Jan. 30, Gregan Cardeño went home happy that he had finally found a job. He had just signed a contract with a security agency that posted him as an interpreter for the American troops in Cotabato City. A few days later, he ended up in Marawi where, inside a US barracks, he supposedly hanged himself. His family, however, is convinced that he had been murdered, probably even abused.

[Manila, Philippines] On Jan. 30, Gregan Cardeño, 33, went home happy that he had finally found a job. That day, he signed a contract with SkyLink Security Agency. Although the contract states that he would work as a security guard, he was told by the agency that he would serve as an interpreter for the American troops in Cotabato City.

"He was really happy that day. He even bought food, saying it was his despedida," said Loraine Cardeño, Gregan's sister-in-law. He even asked his brother to teach him how to drive, saying he may need the skill for his work. "He was a bit anxious, it was his first time to go to Cotabato," Loraine said. The family lives in Ipil, Zamboanga Sibugay.

On Feb. 1, Gregan's wife Myrna accompanied him to the Edwin Andrews Air Base in Zamboanga City where Gregan was to be flown to Cotabato en route to Camp Siongco, a military camp in Awang, Datu Odin Sinsuat town, Maguindanao.

Two days later, at around 2 p.m., Gregan's family received a call from SPO3 Ali Guibon Rangiris of the Philippine National Police in Marawi City, who told them that Gregan was dead, that he had committed suicide. His relatives couldn't believe the news.

Last Conversations

The day before his death, at around 6:45 a.m., Gregan sent text messages to his elder sister Carivel saying that he had been brought instead to Marawi City, at Camp Ranao, in Datu Saber town, the home of the 103rd Brigade of the Philippine Army.

Carivel called up Gregan. Gregan told her he was the only Filipino inside the US barracks. He told her was not an interpreter. When Carivel asked what was his actual job, Gregan could not answer and just kept crying. Gregan asked his sister to call SkyLink, ask for his salary and request for his pullout from the US barracks. "If I did not get out of here, this could be the cause of my death," Carivel said Gregan told her.

On the same day, Myrna also got a call from Gregan. "If ever I go home, would you still accept me?" Gregan asked his wife. "Why?" Myrna replied. "Did you do anything wrong?" The line was suddenly cut.

Not Suicide

Myrna said her husband could not have committed suicide. "He was a religious person. He knew that committing suicide is a sin. We do not have any problems," Myrna said in Visayan at a press conference in Quezon City this morning. Gregan was a Christian.

The family sought the help of Kawagib, a human-rights group in Mindanao and InPeace-Zamboanga to search for the truth behind Gregan's death.

On March 2 to 4, a fact-finding mission was conducted by Gregan's family and these cause-oriented groups. They were joined by members of the Commission on Human Rights (CHR) in Iligan City. The team interviewed police authorities in Marawi City, officers of the 103rd Brigade of the Philippine Army and Captain Mike Kay, the team leader of the US forces stationed in Marawi City, among others.

Grace, Gregan's sister who joined the mission, said they were not allowed to see the room where Gregan had supposedly commit suicide.

Loraine said they also asked for pictures of Gregan while he was still hanging, a rolled-up blanket supposedly around his neck. They also asked for the alleged suicide letter. "To be honest, Ma'am, we were not able to take photographs. When we arrived there [crime scene], the body was already on the floor," Loraine quoted a policeman as telling her.

Grace said they asked for the bed sheet allegedly used by Gregan to hang himself but the police said they left it with the Americans. "They [police] did not get the names of those present at the crime scene. They told us they do not have SOCO [Scene of the Crime Operatives] in Marawi and that they do not know how to investigate."

Ali Bayla Indayla, Kawagib secretary-general, said that there was a conspiracy to make it appear that the cause of death was suicide. She said pieces of material evidence were not preserved. Besides the bed sheet that was not secured by the PNP, Indayla said Gregan's cell phone had been left unsealed. All the messages, call registers and photos had been erased, Indayla said. She noted that SPO3 Rangiris even used Gregan's phone to contact the family.

Indayla added that the photos taken by SPO3 Rangiris show Gregan wearing a green shirt and a denim pants, with his underwear partially shown. When the relatives saw Gregan's body at the funeral home, he was not wearing a shirt and wore only a pair of camouflage cargo shorts.

Denials

Indayla said Col. Felix Castro, deputy brigade commander of the 103rd Brigade, told the mission delegates that he never knew Gregan prior to his death. The officer also said he did not know all the activities of the American troops.

On the other hand, Kay, the team leader of the US forces in Marawi, told the mission that they worked in close coordination with their Filipino counterparts. Kay also told the mission that SkyLink should be the one to answer all questions related to Gregan's death.

Indayla said that even members of the CHR in Iligan were denied access to the camp. "They [CHR] told us that because the US troops, the military and the police refuse to cooperate with their investigation, they could not come up with a conclusion."

Autopsy

Sensing foul play, the family requested the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) in Zamboanga City to do an autopsy on Gregan's body. The result was released March 4.

The autopsy report indicates puncture wounds on Gregan's right foot, on the left inner part of the leg and on the upper right arm.

Indayla, however, said that the autopsy did not indicate many other things, including Gregan's enlarged scrotum, the enlarged opening of his anus and injuries on his head.

"They [US soldiers] made him a pet," Grace said. "They probably played with him."

Lovella de Castro, Karapatan's secretary-general who also joined the mission, said they have every reason to believe that Gregan is a victim of a heinous crime.

Probe

De Castro said they have already requested the CHR national office to conduct another autopsy on Gregan. The family will also file a complaint before the CHR tomorrow, March 11.

"We call on our government to give attention to this incident, as this involves the death of a Filipino under the employ of US forces, inside the barracks of the foreign troops and within a Philippine military camp," de Castro said.

De Castro said they would also file appropriate charges against the police and military for "obstruction of justice."

Indayla said they will ask for the Philippine Congress and Senate to conduct an independent investigations into the incident. "We should have access to the US barracks inside the Philippine territory," Indayla said.

"Given this new incident, the Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA) must be reviewed all the more," Indayla added.

Since 2002, the US government has sent in its troops to supposedly train Filipino soldiers in counter-terrorism. Since then, they have made their presence felt not just in Basilan and Sulu but in several areas as well in Mindanao and Luzon.

http://jesusabernardo.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/10/4001355-filipino-dies-inside-us-army-camp-in-marawi-philippines-suicide-or-made-a-sex-pet

TheAvenger

May 7th, 2010, 11:45 PM

Date Published: April 8, 2010

By JOSEPH ARNEL DELIVERIO
Sibugay Express

Gregan Cardeño

IPIL, Zamboanga Sibugay.—The Commission on Human Rights is trying to put together pieces of the puzzle surrounding the mysterious death of Gregan Cardeño, a Filipino who allegedly committed suicide last February inside the barracks of American soldiers taking part in the Balikatan exercises.

A team from the CHR central office in Manila led by Commisioner Jose Manuel Mamauag arrived in Ipil late last month to exhume Cardeño’s body, conduct a new autopsy, and send out subpoenas to persons and agencies Cardeño might have had contact with before his death.

Joining the CHR Manila team were their counterparts from Iligan City and members of the human rights groups Karapatan, Kawagib and the Initiative for Peace Mindanao.

Cardeño, of Barangay Sanito, this town, had been hired to work as an interpreter for American soldiers. On Feb. 2, his second day of work, he allegedly killed himself in his room at the U.S. soldiers barracks inside the 103rd Brigade Headquarters in Datu Ranao town, a few kilometers from Marawi City.

Cardeño’s family believes there was foul play.

The first autopsy conducted by the medico-legal team of the National Bureau of Investigation Region 9 found the cause of death “consistent with asphyxia by ligature.”

The autopsy report, dated March 4, found “scalp hematoma three in number” along with abrasions and puncture wounds in the arms and feet. Photos of his cadaver also showed that his scrotum was enlarged.

The family asked for a second autopsy, saying wounds not related to suicide were also found in other parts of his body but not included in the autopsy report.

According to the testimonies of his relatives, a military chopper ferried the 33-year-old Cardeño from Edwin Andrews Airbase in Zamboanga City to Cotabato City in the early morning of Feb. 1 to begin his work with the U.S. troops.

He had indicated in his application form that he wanted to work as security guard, but Skylink

Security Agency and General Services, his employment agency, said he was hired as an interpreter for American soldiers under the Joint Special Task Force of the Philippines, more popularly known as Balikatan.

He signed his contract with Skylink the day before he left.

The next morning, Cardeño called his sister, Carivel, to tell her that he was brought instead to a military camp in Marawi City where he said he was the only Filipino among American soldiers.

He complained that his actual work was not what was indicated in his contract. He stopped short of saying what exactly he was doing, his sister said, but pleaded with her to contact Skylink to have him pulled out. Cardeño hinted he could die if he stayed.

Skylink, however, could not take Cardeño back because he still had a cash advance to settle. Cardeño was supposed to receive a hefty salary of P48,000 a month.

At 4 p.m., Cardeño’s wife Myrna got a call from her husband who said, between sobs, “Lisud kaayo akong nasudlan (I’m in a very difficult situation).”

When Myrna replied, “Uli na lang dire (Just come home),” he said, “Kung mouli ko, madawat pa kaha ko ninyo (If I come home, will you still accept me)?”

Cardeño died around midnight, the Marawi police said.

A month later, the Mindanao-based human rights group Kawagib, the CHR Iligan City and family members conducted a fact-finding mission to investigate Cardeño’s death.

Kawagib secretary-general Bayla Indayla called the mission futile and inconclusive.

She said the room where Cardeño was found had been contaminated. Another member of the fact-f

inding team said they were barred from entering the crime scene.

Indayla quoted the police as saying Cardeño was lying on the floor when they arrived and that he was removed by the Americans from where he was supposed to be hanging by a bedsheet.

Cardeño is said to have left behind a suicide note scribbled in his blue book. It said, “Please God, forgive me, save my soul.”

An officer of the 103rd brigade where the U.S. troops were stationed told the fact-finding mission the area of the Americans was “restricted” and he was not exactly aware of their daily activities, Indayla said.

The American officers, on the other hand, have not offered any explanation for Cardeño’s death, adding that whatever questions should be coursed through Skylink.

On March 11, human rights groups formally lodged a complaint before the office CHR chair Leila De Lima.

On March 12, about 100 residents of Ipil, composed of Cardeño’s family and friends, members of nongovernment organizations, church and human rights groups conducted a march-rally condemning Cardeño’s death and seeking truth and justice.

Photos of Cardeño’s wounded body served as backdrop, as human rights advocates spoke and called for the review of the Visiting Forces Agreement and the eventual withdrawal of the American forces in the Philippines .

Friends and fellow members of his church congregation said Cardeño was a good man who could not have committed suicide.

Meanwhile, a member of the CHR Region 10 said that among those sent summons were Skylink Security Agency and General Services, where Cardeño signed his contract; the Marawi police, who were the first to arrive at the crime scene; the 103rd Brigade in Camp Ranao where Cardeño stayed until his death; and the American troops deployed inside Camp Ranao.

Most likely, the CHR member said, the heads or officers of these agencies will be charged with the criminal offenses as accessories after the fact or for obstruction of justice.

Meanwhile, he added that his team could not make any conclusions about what really happened to Cardeño. The CHR will proceed to Marawi City for further investigation.

Aside from his wife Myrna, Cardeño left behind three young children.

http://verafiles.org/main/focus/chr-probing-%e2%80%98suicide%e2%80%99-of-filipino-inside-u-s-barracks/

red_jasper

May 8th, 2010, 11:26 AM

^^ :ohno: :(

higen

May 8th, 2010, 12:56 PM

http://jesusabernardo.newsvine.com/_news/2010/03/10/4001355-filipino-dies-inside-us-army-camp-in-marawi-philippines-suicide-or-made-a-sex-pet

Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:38 AM EST

^^Darn it! :no: I have nothing against gays, but I have a big issue about gays forcing themselves on straight men as I do men rapping women. This is just infuriating!!! May pamilya pa ung tao:bash:

Senseless loss of life...:ohno:

Ady001

May 8th, 2010, 03:39 PM

Ady001

May 8th, 2010, 03:41 PM

That looked like a scene from the Vietnam war movie bat 21 lol .

----

The country can afford a few brand new and modern fighters , im not fond of the idea tho of settling for Polish equipment in the long term , its ok for counter insurgencies but not really ideal for national defense , it would be best to acquire equipment that is compatible with Nato , western and US allies in the Pacific ( Japan , S.Korea , Australia Singapore etc ) combat systems .

I dont agree either with the idea of basically redesigning the wheel ( producing our own gun models ) it would be a rather useless waste of limited budgets for relatively low tech stuff that already exists , if its really desired to have them made in the PI , its possible to mass produce any weapon that already exist through licensing agreements and as for building our own aircraft and ships basically same thing , we can build the basic frames but will still have to purchase the high tech equipment components overseas .

Designing weapons are quite expensive and requires a broad industrial base , no doubt the country can someday build more complicated and effective weapons systems but it will take time and focused policies to do so , in the mean time its best to buy few but brand new and effective equipment .

http://www.meretmarine.com/objets/500/4610.jpg
Rolls Royce UT design OPV's ( ocean patrol vessels )

In the article it says that they are looking for multi purpose vessels for the navy , for this i think that the Rolls Royce UT designs such as this one above for the Norwegian coastguard would be adequate , it is lightly armed but suited for the task of fisheries and economic zone patrols , they can also be modified to have a well deck or a small helicopter platform and light cargo /transport roles aswell as fire fighting at sea/rescue and for ocean tug duties ( given the countries frequent ship disasters these types of ships would definetely come in handy ) .

http://www.maritimeandenergy.com/marinenorway/bilder/rolls-royceut517ill500p_27.06.jpg
Here's one version ordered by the Indian coastguard .

Obviously the navy would later require something more sophisticated to defend territorial waters against other navies ... .

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI3U/SP4QfvUb5BI/AAAAAAAAAVU/Zza2z-CbDt0/s400/C-295MPA.jpg
EADS CN 295 aircraft are probably best for multi purpose light transport and patrol .

http://www.yalibnan.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ethiopia-airline-crash-lebanon-Lockheed_P-3_Orion_0352.jpg
But id go for the P3 Orion if we want a dedicated naval surveillance aircraft which can be armed with anti ship/submarine capabilities .

Instead of making aircraft, why not divest in making Trains and cars? Mitsubishi made a lot of Zeros during WW2 yet finally settled for making automobiles.

mwg12a

May 9th, 2010, 08:50 AM

^^Darn it! :no: I have nothing against gays, but I have a big issue about gays forcing themselves on straight men as I do men rapping women. This is just infuriating!!! May pamilya pa ung tao:bash:

Senseless loss of life...:ohno:

It certainly a very mysterious death. It's hard on both side to really comprehend what happened as I know the penalty of crimes inside the US facility is high. The only thing is that, the victim or this unfortunate soul has only been there for two days, I dont think he will be treated that bad right away as there are other americans who are there to witness the crime, they can't all be taking part of it and you can't accuse of of them of anything yet. These americans are also afraid to commit crime just like that. It's hard to just jump into conclusion.

bitoy

May 9th, 2010, 09:52 AM

It certainly a very mysterious death. It's hard on both side to really comprehend what happened as I know the penalty of crimes inside the US facility is high. The only thing is that, the victim or this unfortunate soul has only been there for two days, I dont think he will be treated that bad right away as there are other americans who are there to witness the crime, they can't all be taking part of it and you can't accuse of of them of anything yet. These americans are also afraid to commit crime just like that. It's hard to just jump into conclusion.

It's really hard to figure out what happened. Even the forensic experts will have a hard time in finding out the cause of death since most of the evidence were not preserved.

I can only attest that those American soldiers are professionals who volunteered to do their jobs.

The only question I can ask is "why do they(US Military) need an interpreter from an agency"?

Arvor

May 10th, 2010, 12:46 AM

Instead of making aircraft, why not divest in making Trains and cars? Mitsubishi made a lot of Zeros during WW2 yet finally settled for making automobiles.

It is beyond the countries industrial base to develop/produce such planes indigenously except under license , making trains and cars is fine having such industrial capabilities are part of the basis for building military vehicles aswell but again the countries own industrial base is insuffficient to build such vehicles without foreign assistance at this point .

It would cost alot of money and a long term effort to get such industries off the ground but its not totally out of reach .

What i posted was based on the news regarding future procurement and what i thought would be the best equipment .

-------------------------------

The interpreter

It could also be that he was forced perhaps to commit or witnessed actions against others that infringed upon his own morality not necessarily that he was raped ... of which there would be proof on the body , if they were after a "sex pet" they could have easily found willing hookers .. .

My theory is that they might have asked him to do or witnessed something done against say a captured insurgent that was brutal and went beyond his moral values .

Anyway not enough info to make conclusions .

Ady001

May 10th, 2010, 01:21 AM

It is beyond the countries industrial base to develop/produce such planes indigenously except under license , making trains and cars is fine having such industrial capabilities are part of the basis for building military vehicles aswell but again the countries own industrial base is insuffficient to build such vehicles without foreign assistance at this point .

It would cost alot of money and a long term effort to get such industries off the ground but its not totally out of reach .

What i posted was based on the news regarding future procurement and what i thought would be the best equipment .

-------------------------------

The interpreter

It could also be that he was forced perhaps to commit or witnessed actions against others that infringed upon his own morality not necessarily that he was raped ... of which there would be proof on the body , if they were after a "sex pet" they could have easily found willing hookers .. .

My theory is that they might have asked him to do or witnessed something done against say a captured insurgent that was brutal and went beyond his moral values .

Anyway not enough info to make conclusions .

Nakaya kasi ng Indonesia na gumawa ng sariling armas. Of course that was because of the arms embargo implemented by the United states.

odyssey

May 10th, 2010, 03:17 AM

DRUG Money and Campaign Funds ng LP - Mga Pusher sila, Kandidta ni Adik

PASG hints at narco politics behind Noynoy, LP funds

05/10/2010

If the Liberal Party and its standard bearers, Sen. Benigno “Noynoy” Aquino and his running mate, Sen. Manuel Mar Roxas, are awash with election campaign funds, the hundreds of millions of pesos may just have come from drug money, better known as campaigns funded by narco politics.

Aquino has been asked to disclose where his campaign funds come from as well as donors. He has refused to do so.

Authorities are reportedly poised to investigate Quezon Gov. Rafael Nantes, the Liberal Party treasurer, for any knowledge about the discovery of drug transshipments and manufacturing base on the island of Icolong in the province.

The Presidential Anti-Smuggling Group (PASG) was said to have stumbled over a drug transhipment and manufacturing base Thursday night on Icolong Island in Quezon province, giving physical credence to a US intelligence report of narco-politics shaping up in the country, a report yesterday said.

The PASG said yesterday its teams, armed with a warrant issued by a Cavite court, spent 14 hours in the western coast of Southern Luzon Thursday to trace the nautical route of misdeclared import shipments in violation of the Tariff Code.

Nantes, who is also a former congressman, is the national treasurer of the Liberal Party (LP) whose standard-bearer, Senator Aquino, is the front-runner in presidential surveys.

is the national treasurer of the Liberal Party (LP) whose standard-bearer, Senator Aquino, is a frontrunner in presidential surveys.

Tribune sources yesterday said that there may be a very strong case of narco politics surrounding the campaign funding of Aquino, Roxas and other LP senatorial and local candidates as Nantes reportedly has been on the “OB” list of the Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency (PDEA).

Nantes is reportedly close to Roxas and Aquino and Tribune sources from PDEA, who asked not to be identified, said that LP bets have been monitored in various meetings where bags of money were being handed to the LP candidates in a house in Third Street, New Manila, Quezon City, known to be the house of Nantes.

PDEA, according to Tribune sources, have long suspected narco-politics money to be behind some politicians’ campaigns, and have been monitoring Nantes and the LP group for sometime.

“He (Nantes) has been on our watchlist for sometime,” the source from PDEA said.

PASG Director for Region 13 Philip Placer said that “This is an international drug operation which is happening in the town of Burdeos. That should raise the alarm on Governor Nantes. In fact, there is suspicion on the local government of letting this happen,” said

He said that with the discovery of transshipments in the island, it is feared that the country will become a center or transshipment point for high-value drugs such as methamphetamine hydrochloride (shabu).

He noted that there was a United States Drug Enforcement Agency (USDEA) report which, essentially, warned of drug money making its way to unscrupulous politicians and making the hotly-contested presidential election susceptible to influence by this massive illegal operations inimical to national security.

Placer as well as well-placed sources from the PDEA said there has been no representation from the Quezon provincial capitol to address the drug threat in the province.

The PASG stumbled over the drug transshipment and manufacturing base last Thursday night on Icolong Island in Quezon province.

The PASG said Saturday its teams spent 14 hours along the western coast of Southern Luzon last Thursday to trace the nautical route of misdeclared import shipments in violation of the Tariff Code.

Placer said his agents followed a suspicious shipment that ended in a safehouse in Sitio Sabang, Barangay Judith in Burdeos on Icolong Island and immediately conducted a raid.

Placer said in the raid of the Akira Sakurai & Hiro Taniguchi, Howa Inc. Pearl Farm, they uncovered chemicals that are used in the manufacture of “shabu,” giving physical credence to the US intelligence report of narco-politics shaping up in the country.

PASG operatives confiscated highly-regulated chemicals such as potassium nitrate, disodium nitrogen phosphate, sodium orthosilicate N-hydrate powder, and sodium thiosulfate pentahydrate.

Placer said Judge Cesar Mangrobang of the Cavite Regional Trial Court Branch 22 issued the warrants to search the premises based on reliable information received by the PASG in a case against the Pearl Farm.

The operation came amid the leaking of the USDEA report three weeks ago that US$ 8.4 billion (P384 billion) worth of dangerous drugs were “either being generated, passes through or is used by drug syndicates in the Philippines,” he said.

Another report underscored an alleged link between the thriving drug trafficking business and local politics as the money generated from the internationally-outlawed trade is suspected of fueling campaigns and a massive attempt to cheat the scheduled elections on May 10.

With the uncovering of the key drugs transhipment and manufacturing base on Icolong Island, Nantes now faces a probe by the PSAG and PDEA, as well as the probe assistance from the USDEA.

Meanwhile, Elections chairman Jose Melo said the technical problem that cropped up in the sealing and testing of the compact flash cards (CF cards) in the province of Nueva Vizcaya where the I-button malfunctioned is an “isolated” case.

Melo said this as he reported that preparations for election today (Monday) are already 98 percent ready for the first ever fully automated polls.

In a news briefing at the Philippine International Convention Center (PICC), Melo reported that they have nearly completed the delivery of the more than 82,000 PCOS machines, the more than 76,000 compact flash cards (CF cards) the 50.7 million ballots and other election paraphernalia.

“We have a reason to smile. Our big problem which caused this big worry are the CF cards. Now, all the machines, all the PCOS, all the ballots, all the ballot boxes are in place. They are in the voting places,” Melo said.

“Generally speaking, the entire Luzon except for Vizcaya and one town in Ilocos Sur and one town in Abra were okay and I would say we are 98 percent ready.

He said in Visayas there is also very minimal problem with one town--Villalobos in Northern Samar.

Cesar Flores, Smartmatic Corp., Asia Pacific president said they expected the problem on I-button to happen.

Flores said they expect “somewhere between 60 to 70 percent of the results by election night and the rest will be arriving in the next 36 hours.”

Flores explained that the purpose of electronic transmission is basically to produce accurate results at the fastest possible time.

“That’s why we have transmission because we want to shorten the time…with transmission we’ll probably have 90 percent of the results directly transmitted. Probably the remaining 10 percent will rely on taking the card to the municipality. So depending on the distance this might take 2 to 4 hours to get to the precinct to the municipality,’ said Flores.

“The good news is that majority of the results will be there in a very short period of time,” he told newsmen during press conference Sunday at the PICC.

Commissioner Sarmiento said national posts from president, vice-president and senators results will come in within 36 to 48 hours. All election results will be posted on the website of the Comelec.

Sarmiento added that they expect voter turnout to be between 80 to 85 percent due to strong interest from the voters on the first ever fully automated elections.

But Melo said he would be happy if the turnout would be 50 percent.

odyssey

May 10th, 2010, 03:44 AM

Liberal Party Using Drug Money for Campaign In Quezon

Pinuno nila addict, mga supporters mga Pushers

Gov. Rafael Nantes, who as treasurer of the Liberal Party raised funds for the campaign of Sen. Benigno Aquino III, has been implicated in a large drugs factory complex on Ilicong Island, Quezon that was raided May 6. Quoting this report from the Manila Bulletin, it says:

Gov. Rafael Nantes, who as treasurer of the Liberal Party raised funds for the campaign of Sen. Benigno Aquino III, has been implicated in a large drugs factory complex on Ilicong Island, Quezon that was raided May 6. Quoting this report from the Manila Bulletin, it says:
“PASG Director for Region 13 Philip A. Placer said his agents followed a suspicious shipment that ended in a safehouse in Sitio Sabang, Barangay Judith in Burdeos on Icolong Island and immediately conducted a raid.
The operation comes amid the leaking out of a US Drug Enforcement Agency (USDEA) report three weeks ago that US$8.4 billion (P384 billion) worth of dangerous drugs were ‘either being generated, passes through or is used by drug syndicates in the Philippines,’ he said.
The same report allegedly underscored an alleged link between the thriving drug trafficking business and local politics as the money generated from the internationally-outlawed trade is suspected of fueling campaigns and a massive attempt to cheat the scheduled elections on May 10.
The revelation by US authorities over the palpable impact of “narcopolitics’ in the elections underscore this reality, alongside the discovery of chemicals in making shabu, said Placer.
He said the leadership of Quezon Governor Rafael Nantes must be placed under scrutiny after the discovery of drug transshipments and manufacturing base on the island of Icolong.
“This is an international (drug operations) and it’s happening here in Burdeos. That should raise alarm on the governor here (Nantes), “In fact, there is suspicion on the local government of letting this happen,” said Placer.
The discovery of transshipments in the island stares the nation in the face and the country will become a center for trans-shipment point for high-value drugs, a global supplier and consumer of methamphetamine hydrochloride (shabu).
It raises questions linked to the USDEA report which, essentially, warned of drug money making its way to unscrupulous politicians and making the hotly-contested presidential election susceptible to influence by this massive illegal operations inimical to national security.
Placer as well as well-placed sources from the Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency (PDEA) said there has been no representation from the Quezon provincial capitol to address the drug threat in the province.
Incidentally, Nantes, a former congressman and who is frequently seen in Metro Manila, is the national treasurer of the Liberal Party whose standard-bearer Senator Benigno Simeon Aquino III happens to be the frontrunner in presidential surveys.“
The full transcript of this report can be found in this link:
http://mb.com.ph/articles/256537/pasg-uncovers-int-l-drug-base-island-quezon

http://tamangkatotohanan.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/liberal2.jpg?w=350&h=206

http://tamangkatotohanan.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/nantes.jpg?w=266&h=271

mwg12a

May 10th, 2010, 10:50 AM

It's really hard to figure out what happened. Even the forensic experts will have a hard time in finding out the cause of death since most of the evidence were not preserved.

I can only attest that those American soldiers are professionals who volunteered to do their jobs.

The only question I can ask is "why do they(US Military) need an interpreter from an agency"?

That would be a big question there. Why is it that the evidence and the crime since has been touched and not preserved?

I have no doubts that the american troops there are trained professionals with integrity. I'm sure one or two slips but I am sure they are not this stupid. If there is an interpreter who happens to be a civilian, he is usually assigned to be with someone or an official. They can't just be working one on one only outside the full view of other personnels. He loves the weather and the country side where he was stationed at in Mindanao.

I also wonder why this fellow was initially being hired as a security guard and turn into an interpreter? I'm sure there would be filipino american military personnel who can work as an interpreter, they do not need a local or civilian to be their interpreter. I know most pinoys are in the navy but I am also sure there are a handful marines and army. I am sure more of the military personnel in the the Philippines are marines because one of my close friend is there in the Philippines, i mean he is not filipino but he is assigned there once before and he is now back there.

pi_malejana

May 10th, 2010, 11:03 AM

wrong thread...:D

mwg12a

May 10th, 2010, 11:07 AM

wrong thread patrick?? he he

pi_malejana

May 10th, 2010, 11:10 AM

^^ lol oo nga eh SORRY...:lol::nuts: alas-5 na kasi eh..:nuts:

Arvor

May 10th, 2010, 01:21 PM

Nakaya kasi ng Indonesia na gumawa ng sariling armas.

What type of weapons have they developed ? .

higen

May 10th, 2010, 04:42 PM

It certainly a very mysterious death. It's hard on both side to really comprehend what happened as I know the penalty of crimes inside the US facility is high. The only thing is that, the victim or this unfortunate soul has only been there for two days, I dont think he will be treated that bad right away as there are other americans who are there to witness the crime, they can't all be taking part of it and you can't accuse of of them of anything yet. These americans are also afraid to commit crime just like that. It's hard to just jump into conclusion.

^^I am infuriated by the death which evidence (on the article) "might" suggest foul play...not enough to convict? Perhaps...But not enough to "accuse"? Well, I most certainly just did. One can accuse another of picking his pocket just by sitting beside him when the crime was discovered. Proving it is another story....But me accusing an American of the crime? Nope, I said no such thing...

David-80

May 10th, 2010, 05:17 PM

What type of weapons have they developed ? .

if i can answer, for military, we developed LPD ships, armoured vehicle, automatic riffle/guns, the CN-235 MPA surveillance airplane, rocket/missiles, Speed boats for coast guard, Helicopter attack and surveillance satelitte.

So, why buying from the US? they are selling arms but too many forbidden requirements, maybe we can cooperate together, developing new arms. :okay:

Cheers

bulakenyo

May 11th, 2010, 12:33 AM

Yeah. ASEAN co-developing arms isn't a bad idea I think. I wonder how the US will react though.

mwg12a

May 11th, 2010, 02:19 AM

^^I am infuriated by the death which evidence (on the article) "might" suggest foul play...not enough to convict? Perhaps...But not enough to "accuse"? Well, I most certainly just did. One can accuse another of picking his pocket just by sitting beside him when the crime was discovered. Proving it is another story....But me accusing an American of the crime? Nope, I said no such thing...

Well you're right, you didnt make any reference directly about the americans but somehow the statement was very suggestive since he was in a US military camp with no other filipinos present, I'm sure it wasn't your intention but somehow, you still jumped into conclusion that he was sexually attacked. There were no other evidence as far as DNA or human fluid present on the cadaver apart from the victim's alone. This is why I mentioned, let's not jump into conclusion right just yet. Sadly, the phone calls made by the victims can also be vague. It can either mean he was being tortured or that he is ashamed to come home without a job he was promised to have considering 45 grand which is roughly equivalent to US$1,000.00per month is more than just enough by Philippine standard.

higen

May 11th, 2010, 06:08 AM

^^Sure, I agree with you with what you said and your scenario might have been what actually had happened, your are free to conclude as much, same as I...But if the reason you are giving me this "interesting" lecture on being "level headed" is because you suspect that I am one of those who are so eager to cast blame or so eager to see someone hang...Then you couldn't be more wrong...

But I guess I can understand why people do it. There is after all a certain level of satisfaction in "believing" that you've set someone right.

mwg12a

May 12th, 2010, 03:02 AM

I just don't believe without any concrete evidence that's all. We just just point fingers on someone. One is not guilty until proven otherwise.

kyril

May 12th, 2010, 04:13 AM

odyssey, you and your biased news. hell daig pa ang balitang iyan sa fox news e. are you just jumping to conclusions or do you really hate noynoy and his party so much na parang gusto mo na mamatay silang lahat? tingnan mo na lang muna ang kanyang performance at pagdating ng 1 taong termino nya, saka ka na lang mag-criticize pati na sa mga bumoto sa kanya. ako kahit na ayoko sa kanya (dahil sa hacienda luisita issue na iyan and his mindless, unwise voters), i still accept defeat that my candidate, gordon, didn't win and he also concede to him.

you're just like erap who can't accept defeat unless kandidato mo sya't sinusuporta. in other words, you're just a sore loser. tsk tsk tsk

higen

May 12th, 2010, 04:16 AM

I just don't believe without any concrete evidence that's all. We just just point fingers on someone. One is not guilty until proven otherwise.

^^But of course. We agree then...I can understand why you mistook what I wrote...my fault.

Arvor

May 12th, 2010, 04:24 AM

if i can answer, for military, we developed LPD ships, armoured vehicle, automatic riffle/guns, the CN-235 MPA surveillance airplane, rocket/missiles, Speed boats for coast guard, Helicopter attack and surveillance satelitte.

So, why buying from the US? they are selling arms but too many forbidden requirements, maybe we can cooperate together, developing new arms.

Yeah. ASEAN co-developing arms isn't a bad idea I think. I wonder how the US will react though.

Not alot of specific details regarding Indonesian made weapons there , the cn235 as the name indicates was a joint production with a Spanish company ( CASA ) now a part of EADS , the armoured vehicle uses components from the French and Japanese ... .

Those examples are weapons which are basically almost simply licensed variations of stuff that already exists or can easily be procured or produced under license anyway and are of a very low technological level , its basically just an attempt to reinvent the wheel when we already have it in abundance and is thus a waste of funds .

There are probably only 3 or so countries in the world today that can produce original and high tech weapons of every type from land , air and sea to space based equipments and these are the US , France and Russia ... ( tanks , radars , satelites , ballistic missiles or nuclear submarines etc ) and only France and the US today are capable of building aircraft carriers and all the necessary technology to arm them including aircraft , other countries come close such as say Germany , China , Brazil , Italy the UK or Japan and S.Korea , but they often have to rely on "others" technology and or equipment to produce what they do and these countries pretty much have defense and equipment acquisition budgets that are each by themselves equal to the combined military budgets of ASEAN .

It's easy to get other peoples components such as chasis and engines and whatnot and to simply slap a few pieces of armour onto them , i could probably build an apc in my backyard if i had to aswell .

In the case of Indonesia it had no choice due to embargoes placed on it due to its militaries actions against minority nations whitin Indonesia ... , other ASEAN countries altho im sure are just as guilty of opressing minorities does not however face the same embargoes .

My point is simply that it is a waste of very limited funds to spend them on weapons that can already be procured in the worlds arms market , limited funds are better used to procure high tech quality weaponry .

I know alot of what i am writing here could be misconstrued as insults but it is the truth and the case that aside from a very few ASEAN countries , actually id say aside from Singapore the rest of ASEAN barely has any military capability to fight a real war or certainly not modern warfare .

Singapore and other east Asian countries are good examples of how to procede , build up the economy develop civilian industry while at the first instance procuring top of the line weapons from advanced weapons producing nations , in time as a country becomes wealthy and acquire the technological , engineering and industrial capability it could then start building proper weapons of its own .

Of course yes building apc's are fine to use against local insurgencies but are pretty much useless against a modern external adversary .

Id rather the Phillipines follow Singapores , S.Korea or Japans example and spend its funds in purchasing modern equipment and improving the standards of it's ground forces to be at par with US allied nations in east Asia or NATO/western military standards .

Id like to see the Phillippines armed and capable of actually mounting rapid military offensives overseas and fighting or participating in coalitions with more developed militaries , defending its territorial integrity and not just fighting a bunch of rag tag communist and muslim rebel thugs in the provinces , which requires a whole new level of warfighting capabilities .

Singapore is a small country and has limited manpower but because it is well trained and equiped it can "in my opinion" beat any of its ASEAN neighbours quite easily probably even in just a matter of hours , it's just no contest .

But to get back to square one it means first developing civilian industry and an economy to afford these things .

Anyway the AFP procurement proposals are spot on the most urgent need is an ability to control its vast territorial waters , things like a P3 orion or equivalent aircraft with anti submarine warfare capabilities such as torpedoes and or anti ship missile capability and OPV's ( Offshore Patrol Vessels ) should be acquired in the first phase , so that the country could at least tackle foreign countries submarines and at the very least prevent the plunder of our marine wealth .

At the moment the Chinese navy could probably park its entire fleet off the east coast of Luzon with impunity and we wouldnt even know and even if we did could not do anything about it .

Heck the Chinese navy can probably park its warships off Cebu city and we couldnt do anything about it except take pictures ... and then remind uncle sam of our mutual defence treaty and to come and save us , id say the Phillipines links with the US and the likely US response to defend us is probably the only real deterrence it has at the moment .

jpdm

May 12th, 2010, 04:54 AM

[B]Anyway the AFP procurement proposals are spot on the most urgent need is an ability to control its vast territorial waters , things like a P3 orion or equivalent aircraft with anti submarine warfare capabilities such as torpedoes and or anti ship missile capability and OPV's ( Offshore Patrol Vessels ) should be acquired in the first phase , so that the country could at least tackle foreign countries submarines and at the very least prevent the plunder of our marine wealth .

It would be better if the Philippines procure these things and with an agreement that all these armaments assembled here.

Arvor

May 12th, 2010, 05:02 AM

Yeah that's quite sensible its how alot of our now more advanced neighbours in East Asia did it , Japan basically assembled and or built F15's and a version of the F16 under license , the Chinese does the same with French or Russian equipment and so does India ... etc .

jpdm

May 12th, 2010, 05:09 AM

Yeah that's quite sensible its how alot of our now more advanced neighbours in East Asia did it , Japan basically assembles and or build F15's and a version of the F16 under license .

This will help our AFP save some money, employ local talent, learn new skills, enable AFP personnel maintain the armaments themselves without being overly dependent on foreign technicians.

I really hope, AFP should start buying new, effective, sturdy not necessarily hi-tech yet affordable armaments with low maintenance.

I say again, there are US and Italian made aircrafts that are new small and inexpensive yet packed with power (missile capable).

For the Philippine navy, they can ask local shipbuilding company to produce local fast crafts (use for interisland trips) for military use (with stronger hull etc)and with missile and rocket capability.

David-80

May 12th, 2010, 04:41 PM

Not alot of specific details regarding Indonesian made weapons there , the cn235 as the name indicates was a joint production with a Spanish company ( CASA ) now a part of EADS , the armoured vehicle uses components from the French and Japanese ... .

It was, but CN-235 MPA are made in PT DI in Bandung, built from the scratch, we also produce our own airplane, N250. but if you want to produce alone, you must made a joint cooperation 1st.

Now with the regards of armoured vehicle or APC, it does not contain any french or german components, in fact, its 100% produced in Bandung. but of course, even Airbus use china and indonesia components for their aircraft, what company nowadays dont even outsourcing their spareparts and production?

In the case of Indonesia it had no choice due to embargoes placed on it due to its militaries actions against minority nations whitin Indonesia

Indonesia IS NOT in embargo of the US, they were lifting it 5 years ago. But we are learning from the experiences, so we build our defense strategy within our local industry, with the help of South Korea, Russia and Netherland. And thats what the Philippines should also do in my opinion.

My point is simply that it is a waste of very limited funds to spend them on weapons that can already be procured in the worlds arms market , limited funds are better used to procure high tech quality weaponry .

Its not waste of funds, if its waste of funds, then Malaysia and several countries in south asia wont be ordering our APC.

just put it this way, a country in Asean doesnt have that budget to follow uncle sam, china or european arms industry, so with our limited budget, why dont we create our defense capability? its win-win solution

bear in mind, buying so called "high-tech" airplanes or modern war machines is not only a matter of buying, but also we must think about maintenance and spare parts.

Those examples are weapons which are basically almost simply licensed variations of stuff that already exists or can easily be procured or produced under license anyway and are of a very low technological level , its basically just an attempt to reinvent the wheel when we already have it in abundance and is thus a waste of funds .

I am sorry but, CN-235 MPA is a very tech low level? if so then why south korea and US coast guard buying them? LPD class ships is also low level? do you have military background for saying that? no offense

cheers

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 02:19 AM

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 02:22 AM

ULit uli..ito na lang mukhang low maintenanc. Brand new pero hi-tech..pampalit sa mga old Broncos or OV_10...

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/at-6b-light-attack/images/4-at-6-features.jpg

US AT-6B

"The AT-6 design allows for advanced training with weapons delivery capabilities."

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/at-6b-light-attack/images/2-at-6-multi-role-system.jpg

The AT-6 multirole system is designed for net-centric intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) and light precision attack missions.

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 02:27 AM

T-6A Texan II (JPATS), USA

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/texan/images/T-6A_7.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/texan/images/T-6A_2.jpg

The T-6A can provide both primary training and advanced training in aerial manoeuvres.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/texan/images/10-T-6A_12.jpg

The T-6A primary trainer provides a high degree of flexibility and utility.
Weapons training

One of the requirements of the programme for the Hellenic Air Force was to integrate basic air-to-ground weapons training capability into a portion of their fleet. HBC engineers conducted a full weapons integration and test programme. In conjunction and cooperation with the US Air Force Seek Eagle office, a full safe separation weapons qualification programme was conducted at Eglin AFB, Florida.

The aircraft has six underwing hard points, three on each side for carrying air-to-air and air-to-ground weapons systems. The centre station on each side is 'wet' for external fuel tanks.

In addition to the six under-wing stores stations, the FN Herstal weapons control system and Avimo gunsight increase the capability of the T-6 as a weapons trainer

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 02:34 AM

SK 60 Trainer Aircraft, Sweden

The SK 60 trainer aircraft, used by the Swedish Air Force (SAF), is a variant of the Saab 105 prototype. It is a jet-driven trainer aircraft with ejection seats for the instructor and trainee.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/sk60-traineraircraft/images/1-sk60.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/sk60-traineraircraft/images/2-sk60.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/sk60-traineraircraft/images/3-sk60.jpg

Mission variants

SK 60 aircraft were once used for light attack operations such as preventing border crossings, fighting helicopters and taking part in joint operations with the army. The key variants that were developed based on such requirements are SK 60B, SK 60C, SK 60D and SK 60E.

SK 60B and SK 60C are two-seat attack variants developed for the SAF. SK 60C also meets reconnaissance requirements through the panoramic reconnaissance camera fitted to the nose of the aircraft. Armament including two automatic 30mm ADEN cannons or attack rockets, 12cm-13.5cm rockets or six armour-penetrating rockets, can be installed at hardpoints under the wings. Alternatively, the RB05 attack missile could also be carried.

SK 60D is the transport variant wherein the two ejection seats of the aircraft are replaced with four airline-type seats (without parachutes) or four austere seats (with parachutes). Only ten SK 60 aircraft were permanently configured as SK60D and finally flew.

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 02:39 AM

EMB-314 Super Tucano / ALX Trainer / Light Attack Aircraft, Brazil

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/super_tucano/images/ALXSuperTucano_2.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/super_tucano/images/ALXSuperTucano_5.jpg

The ALX can be armed with guided air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles and bombs.

Weapons

The aircraft is fitted with two central mission computers. The integrated weapon system includes software for weapon aiming, weapon management, mission planning and mission rehearsal. Onboard recording is used for post mission analysis.

The aircraft has five hardpoints for carrying weapons, and is capable of carrying a maximum external load of 1,500kg. The aircraft is armed with two wing-mounted 12.7mm machine guns with a rate of fire of 1,100 rounds a minute and is capable of carrying general-purpose bombs and guided air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles. Brazilian AF aircraft will be armed with the MAA-1 Piranha short-range infrared guided air-to-air missile from Orbita.

The two seat AT-29 is fitted with a forward-looking infrared AN/AAQ-22 SAFIRE turret on the underside of the fuselage. The SAFIRE thermal imaging system supplied by FLIR Systems is for targeting, navigation and target tracking. The system allows the aircraft to carry out night surveillance and attack missions.

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 02:41 AM

My Favorite

A-10 Thunderbolt (Warthog) Ground Attack Aircraft, USA

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/a-10/images/a10_2.jpg

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 02:43 AM

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 02:49 AM

Hawk Trainer / Light Combat Aircraft, United Kingdom

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/hawk/images/Hawk3.jpg

The Hawk 60, powered by an Adour mk861 turbofan engine, provides air combat manoeuvring and weapon conversion training.

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 02:51 AM

IAR-99C Soim Lead In Fighter Jet Trainer Aircraft, Romania

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/iar_99c/images/IAR-99_3.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/iar_99c/images/IAR-99_4.jpg
The Romanian Air Force will use the IAR-99C as the lead in fighter trainer aircraft towards the MiG-21 Lancer multi-role attack aircraft.

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 02:54 AM

From the japanese cartoon Voltes V. Steve Armstrongs aircraft..hehehehe:lol::lol:

J-10 (Jian 10) – Vigorous Dragon Multi-Role Tactical Fighter, China

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/j-10/images/5-fighter-jet.jpg

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 02:57 AM

M-346 Master Advanced Fighter Trainer, Italy

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/yak/images/M-346_3.jpg

M-346 weapons

Armaments are carried on nine external store stations, six of which are underwing, equipped with 1,000lb class ejector release units, and two wingtip stations for air-to-air missiles. The under-fuselage station carries avionics pods or a 300l conformal fuel tank.

The system data presentation and control functions of the stores management system use any one of the multifunction displays in both cockpits. Hands-on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls are used to select the weapons. Weapon aiming is controlled by the central main processor, aiming data being presented to the pilots through the head-up display (HUD) or the helmet-mounted display (HMD).

The weapons carried include: MK82 500lb and MK83 1,000lb free fall or retarded bombs; rocket launchers; AIM-9 Sidewinder short-range air-to-air missiles; Raytheon AGM-65 Maverick air-to-ground missiles; MBDA (formerly Alenia) Marte MK-2A anti-ship missiles.
"The weapons carried by the M-346 include MK82 500lb and MK83 1,000lb free-fall or retarded bombs."

The external hard points can also carry the Vinten VICON-601 reconnaissance pod, laser designator pod, radar warning receiver pod and Elettronica ELT-55 electronic countermeasures pod.

For fighter trainer role, self-protection system functions and simulated tactical scenario threats are presented and monitored on the multifunction displays.

For operational roles, the aircraft is fitted with a radar warning receiver, chaff and flares dispensers, and active electronic countermeasures.

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 03:08 AM

and now....

The Defiant fighter aircraft and Hummingbird of the Philippines..

http://www.timawa.net/defense/padc/Defiant%20300-Construction-0001.jpg
The Defiant 300 undergoing inspection in December 1986. The prototype first flew in February, 1987 and and the test flight lasted about an hour. The fuselage was of wood and fiberglass construction and the landing gear was from a Beech T-34 provided by the PAF. The prototype was to have been followed by a larger version of metal construction with a turboprop engine.

http://www.timawa.net/defense/padc/HummingBird-newspaperclipscannedimage.jpg
A scan of a news clipping of the PADC Hummingbird, a locally built copy of the BO-105.

Eurocopter threatened to sue PADC if it persisted in developing the Hummingbird and all locally built hardware was ordered destroyed.

Toinks!!!:nuts::nuts::lol::lol::lol::ohno::ohno:

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 03:13 AM

L159 ALCA Advanced Light Combat Aircraft, Czech Republic

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/l159/images/l1596.jpg

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 03:18 AM

Su-47 (S-37 Berkut) Experimental Fighter Aircraft, Russia

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/s37/images/img1.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/s37/images/img3.jpg

jpdm

May 13th, 2010, 03:26 AM

Yak-130 Combat Trainer, Russia

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/yak_130/images/Yak130_5.jpg
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/yak_130/images/Yak130_6.jpg

Sou-jiro

May 13th, 2010, 05:02 AM

now that Noy Noy will be in Power I wonder what his intentions/plan are for our armed forces who seriouly need an upgrade, in particular the Air Force followed by the Navy.

bitoy

May 13th, 2010, 06:16 AM

My Favorite

A-10 Thunderbolt (Warthog) Ground Attack Aircraft, USA

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/a-10/images/a10_2.jpg

:lol: I've seen those monsters performed while supporting the ground troops.
Pero, parang yung mga sundalo na lang ang supporting mission, plakda lahat ng buildings at mga tangke na pinasadahan nila. :D

Christian_123

May 13th, 2010, 09:15 AM

:lol: I've seen those monsters performed while supporting the ground troops.
Pero, parang yung mga sundalo na lang ang supporting mission, plakda lahat ng buildings at mga tangke na pinasadahan nila. :D

Umutot kasi un Gatling gun nya sabay sabog un missiles! Talagang pinakatawanan un pagiging Warthog aka Baboy nya :lol: !

(incase you didn't know, talagang tunog UTOT ang Gatling gun nyan :lol: )

gaLj

May 13th, 2010, 09:24 AM

Sec. Norberto Gonzales was reported to has negotiated for this (second hand units from the US)

AH-1W/AH-1Z Super Cobra Attack Helicopter, USA

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/supcobra/images/cobra4.jpg

If my memory serves me right, those ah-1's are offered by Israeli Government and also they offered their k-firs.

What they're offering are the AH-1 cobra with upgraded communication equipments and almost has similar parts to our UH-1.

bitoy

May 13th, 2010, 10:38 AM

Umutot kasi un Gatling gun nya sabay sabog un missiles! Talagang pinakatawanan un pagiging Warthog aka Baboy nya :lol: !

(incase you didn't know, talagang tunog UTOT ang Gatling gun nyan :lol: )

:lol: I should know, I was there during the Gulf War.

bulakenyo

May 13th, 2010, 04:52 PM

Arvor

May 14th, 2010, 12:27 AM

I am sorry but, CN-235 MPA is a very tech low level? if so then why south korea and US coast guard buying them? LPD class ships is also low level? do you have military background for saying that? no offense

Basic APC's does not require alot of high tech technology to produce , the Indonesian built APC's used a Japanese chassis and French engines and transmission , btw the Pindad looks surprisingly like a French VAB or APC which Indonesia seem to have a few of in it's inventory , the striking similarity tells me that its basically a slightly modified copy of the French vehicle , so once again i ask what's the point of reinventing the wheel ? .

The Boxer MRAV or the new French VBCI are the new generation in APC designs and are a step up in technology .

CN 235

They did not buy them from Indonesia's NPTI they bought the planes from EADS CASA Spain which clearly holds most of the technology behind the collaboration , this is why CASA and EADS has built new models since while Indonesia has not had the same success or ability to innovate and develop a product line .

The truth is NPTI did not have the capability to build the aircraft on its own and the CN235 was mainly built upon CASA's experience with it's previous models .

LPD's if you are talking about the "makassar" class it seems that they were designed by and first models built in South Korea while a few were built under license in Indonesia .

It's ok to feel nationalistic and i know that what i am saying would be hard to read and i did say that it was not my intention to hurt anyones feelings , but building under license isnt the same as developing a weapons system on your own .

And thats what the Philippines should also do in my opinion.

The examples you mentioned on the contrary actually does make my point aswell that it is better to simply build weapons based on technology and expertise that already exists elsewhere until such time as a country has developed the necessary industrial capability to develop them , and yes this is what the Phillipines should do .

why dont we create our defense capability? its win-win solution

There simply is alot of difference between ASEAN countries defence procurement , standards and budgets let alone politics to make it work ... .

ASEAN would have to do alot to be able to set up a joint procurement agency , i would agree that this would be a good thing but it simply isnt realistic at this time .

From a geopolitical point of view the Phillipines must procure and move closer to those countries that are more aligned with the US such as S.Korea , Japan , Singapore , Australia and Taiwan as it is in the Phillipines interests to be able to fight with them in coalitions and future conflicts in places like say Korea , Taiwan etc , the Phillipines is not just a South East Asian country it is also at the edge of East Asia and on the Pacific .

To a lesser degree the Phillipines should pursue joint procurement with some of its neighbours like Singapore and Thailand , with regards Thailand i think that a great opportunity was missed when the Phillipines did not jointly procured SAAB Gripens with Thailand .

Arvor

May 14th, 2010, 12:51 AM

The M346 is the newest advance trainer / light fighter it would be great to have those .

Nanflexal

May 14th, 2010, 06:24 AM

ganito nalang kaya ang gawin ng AFP at goverment.

AFP to deploy 10 corrupt congressman and senator to hunt ABu.

Christian_123

May 14th, 2010, 06:26 AM

ganito nalang kaya ang gawin ng AFP at goverment.

AFP to deploy 10 corrupt congressman and senator to hunt ABu.

Giving the taste of their own corrupt acts? I Like it! :banana:

firebar10

May 14th, 2010, 07:50 AM

jpdm

May 14th, 2010, 12:26 PM

I think that if the budget can permit, the AFP should never settle for second hand equipment because they are far more expensive to maintain and operate. Yes you can get them cheap initially but operating them is another story. The PAF decision to acquire those brand new Polish choppers is a good start and maybe an indication that the AFP is now weaning itself away from over reliance on US military hardware, the world arms market is awashed with cost effective weapon systems that we have a lot to chose from, and mind you some of these weapons comes with technician trainings and technology transfer.

Thats why I posted those aircrafts for sale from different countries.

And to emphasize my idea that we dont need for the meantime to buy hi-tech multirole but very expensive aircrfts and instead focus on buying brand new light trainer/light attack aircraft which are definitely less expensive that those second hand F-16 or F-18.

Besides, our enemies right now are those terrorist Abu sayaff, rogue MILFs and foreign poachers.

My personal favorite is the Italian advance trainer/ light attack aircraft (a much improved S-211 version), the Swedish trainer/light attack aircraft and the RUssian yak trainer/ light attack aircraft.

We can hopefully buy 2 or 3 squadrons of these and deploy them in Palawan, Kalayaan Islands/Spratlys, Batanes, General Santos City and Tawi-Tawi or Sulu.

jpdm

May 14th, 2010, 12:32 PM

ok sakin tong dalawang to. Geezz so many choices! Why are we settling for those Vietnam War era scrap metals? :ohno:

Indeed.

These light attack aircrafts are I think alot better than buying second hand aircrafts from the US.

Even the hueys have a newer version like these..

UH-1Y Huey Utility Helicopter, USA

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/uh_1y/images/UH-1Yhuey_2.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/uh_1y/images/UH-1Yhuey_1.jpg

Weapons

The helicopter is armed with 70mm rockets. The pilot launches the rockets by a trigger squeeze for single, pairs or salvo firings. The helicopter can be fitted with the seven-tube LAU-68, the 19-tube LAU-61 and, with additional software, the seven-tube M-261 or 19-tube M-260 for remote set fusing. The helicopter supports all Mk 66 rockets with unitary, airburst and training warheads.

The machine guns selected for the UH-1Y are the M-240D, GAU-16 and GAU-17A.

The 7.62mm GAU-17A aircraft machine gun can be fired by either member of crew when in the forward fixed position. The GAU-17A is air-cooled, multi-barreled and electrically powered with a firing rate up to 3,000 rounds a minute.

The 0.50-calibre Browning GAU-16A gun is belt fed, recoil operated and air-cooled. The rate of fire is from 750 to 850 rounds a minute.

The 7.62mm M-240D is a belt fed, recoil operated, air-cooled machine gun with a rate of fire of 750 to 950 rounds a minute.

jpdm

May 14th, 2010, 12:55 PM

Im sure we cant have these....because of lack of funds..

Rafale Multirole Combat Fighter, France

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/rafale/images/rafale1.jpg

Eurofighter Typhoon Multirole Combat Fighter, Europe

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ef2000/images/ef2000_9.jpg

MiG-35 Multirole Fighter Aircraft, Russia

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/mig35/images/1-mig-35.jpg

Gripen Multirole Fighter Aircraft, Sweden

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/gripen/images/gripen2.jpg

F-21 Kfir Fighter Jet, Israel

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/kfir-jet/images/2-kfir-jet.jpg

F-16 Fighting Falcon Multi-Role Fighter Aircraft, USA

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f16/images/falcon10.jpg

F-15E 'Strike' Eagle Long-Range Interdiction Fighter, USA

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f15/images/eagle10.jpg

bulakenyo

May 14th, 2010, 03:41 PM

budget wise, pinakarealistic talaga is to purchase light attack/ trainer aircrafts, pati COIN aircrafts. I think I also suggested the Super Tucano before @ jpdm. :)

ang tagal naman ng delivery nung mga polish choppers. gusto ko makita personally.

kalbongdad

May 14th, 2010, 04:30 PM

oo nga ako rin natatagalan.....btw...yung mga masyadong expensive aircraft....wag na muna nating ambiyonin yun....i think yung mga chech, swede or italian and israeli aircrafts na muna tayo na medyo....within our means siguro...one step at a time....

bulakenyo

May 14th, 2010, 06:00 PM

I kinda gathered from timawa.net that the acquisition of those Polish choppers kinda had some issues at some point, even after the DND letter was sent to PZL-Swidnik. Pero sealed na daw yung deal. Sana in time for the Independence Day parade ang delivery. Sec Gonzales is really pushing for those Cobras. Sana yung medyo bagong models naman kasi baka mamaya bumabagsak din sa mga bahay bahay yan tulad ng karag na units na natitira sa PAF inventory.

johnmizer

May 14th, 2010, 09:10 PM

OT ano yung mga infantry carriers na ginaagmit, mukha syang pickup pero mas malaki pa sa hummer

Christian_123

May 14th, 2010, 09:35 PM

OT ano yung mga infantry carriers na ginaagmit, mukha syang pickup pero mas malaki pa sa hummer

Ang alam ko, M35 cargo truck ang infantry carriers ng AFP. It entered service way back in 1951 :nuts:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/M35.jpg/800px-M35.jpg

Tama ba?

---------------------
On topic: Para sa akin, hinde talaga parin pwede ang mga jet fighters sa atin. Bili nalang tayo ng mga fast attack helicopters at mga bagong models ng huey para mapalitan na un mga inaamag nating mga hueys.

jpdm

May 15th, 2010, 12:12 AM

Masakit na nga na wala tayong modern aircrafts kahil trainer/light attack aircraft man lang..i-compare naman natin ang sarili natin sa ASEAN at Asian neighbors natin in terms of capability to produce their own requirements....huhuhu..

Indonesia:

CN-235 MP/MPA Maritime Patrol Aircraft, Spain / Indonesia

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/cn235mp/images/CN235MP_7.jpg

Taiwan:

Ching-Kuo (IDF) Indigenous Defence Fighter, Taiwan

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/ching/images/ching-kuo_idf2.jpg

T-50 Golden Eagle Jet Trainer and Light Attack Aircraft, South Korea

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/t-50/images/t50_7.jpg

India:

Su-27SK (Su-30MK, Su-33) Flanker Front Line Fighter Aircraft, Russia

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su27/images/su27_2.jpg

A variant, the Su-30MK, has been sold to India with licensed local production."The Su-27 (Nato designation Flanker) is a front-line fighter aircraft."The first of up to 140 aircraft indigenously built by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) was delivered in November 2004.

China ordered 76 two-seat Su-30MKK and 24 Su-30MK2 naval fighters. Deliveries were completed in August 2004.

Indonesia ordered two Su-27SK and two Su-30MK aircraft which were delivered in September 2003.

Tejas Light Combat Supersonic Fighter, India

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/tejas/images/4-tejas-aircraft.jpg

Japan:

F-2 Attack Fighter, Japan

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/f2/images/img1.jpg
The F-2 support fighter is a joint US / Japan development programme, with Mitsubishi as prime contractor and Lockheed Martin as main US subcontractor.

Arvor

May 15th, 2010, 12:26 AM

ano yung mga infantry carriers na ginaagmit, mukha syang pickup pero mas malaki pa sa hummer

KIA KM-450 utility vehicle ?

Arvor

May 15th, 2010, 12:28 AM

http://kia-trucks.com/images/kia-trucks-Km450-airshow.jpg
KIA KM-450

wonkcerbon

May 15th, 2010, 01:26 AM

CN 235

They did not buy them from Indonesia's NPTI they bought the planes from EADS CASA Spain which clearly holds most of the technology behind the collaboration , this is why CASA and EADS has built new models since while Indonesia has not had the same success or ability to innovate and develop a product line .

The truth is NPTI did not have the capability to build the aircraft on its own and the CN235 was mainly built upon CASA's experience with it's previous models .

LOL! no offense from your posts it seem you donnt know anything about military.

btw South Korean did bought CN 235 from Indonesia and while we at it, CASA Spain failed on Modification CN_235 series into anti sub-marine aircraft while PT.Dirgantara succed, now they had joint co-operation with Turkey to made CN 235 for such kind.

mwg12a

May 15th, 2010, 01:32 AM

and now....

The Defiant fighter aircraft and Hummingbird of the Philippines..

http://www.timawa.net/defense/padc/Defiant%20300-Construction-0001.jpg
The Defiant 300 undergoing inspection in December 1986. The prototype first flew in February, 1987 and and the test flight lasted about an hour. The fuselage was of wood and fiberglass construction and the landing gear was from a Beech T-34 provided by the PAF. The prototype was to have been followed by a larger version of metal construction with a turboprop engine.

Toinks!!!:nuts::nuts::lol::lol::lol::ohno::ohno:

Is this for real? Any update if so? The filipinos should really device their ingenuity and improve their inventions such as these. It would make a world of difference if we can learn to be more self sufficient.

David-80

May 15th, 2010, 01:51 AM

LOL! no offense from your posts it seem you donnt know anything about military.

btw South Korean did bought CN 235 from Indonesia and while we at it, CASA Spain failed on Modification CN_235 series into anti sub-marine aircraft while PT.Dirgantara succed, now they had joint co-operation with Turkey to made CN 235 for such kind.

Just ignore him, he doesnt know anything about our defense industry, he even spelled IPTN wrongly.

cheers

Englehart

May 15th, 2010, 02:41 AM

Ang alam ko, M35 cargo truck ang infantry carriers ng AFP. It entered service way back in 1951 :nuts:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/M35.jpg/800px-M35.jpg

Tama ba?

oo yan yun A.K.A. known as 6 bine:lol::lol:

ito sa PAF:)
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs208.snc3/21533_102808156415885_100000601024452_74552_6902500_n.jpg

http://kia-trucks.com/images/kia-trucks-Km450-airshow.jpg
KIA KM-450

4 Bine:banana::banana:

katana2010

May 15th, 2010, 03:05 AM

If ever namanlo si noynoy!

maging chief of staff niya si gen. danny lim

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4710/newphilippines201001.jpg (http://img522.imageshack.us/i/newphilippines201001.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

rubiopr27

May 15th, 2010, 11:57 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C-17_2006-05-10_F-2559D-003.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:C-17_2006-05-10_F-2559D-003.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hyakuri_F-2.JPG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Eurocopter_Tiger_p1230203.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Westland_apache_wah-64d_longbow_zj206_arp.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AH-64D_Apache_Longbow.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F-16e_block60.jpg)

sana bilhin ng PAF ito

Arvor

May 15th, 2010, 01:14 PM

he doesnt know anything about our defense industry, he even spelled IPTN wrongly.

There isnt much to know about your tiny defence industry, ever heard of typos .. .

it seem you donnt know anything about military

So what dont i know, anything specific ... ? .

btw South Korean did bought CN 235 from Indonesia and while we at it, CASA Spain failed on Modification CN_235 series into anti sub-marine aircraft while PT.Dirgantara succed, now they had joint co-operation with Turkey to made CN 235 for such kind.

Since Turkey would now produce their own variant making it a Turkish plane ? .

The point is the fact that Indonesia has been unable to "innovate" and create a whole new product line without a foreign partner shows the level of its aerospace industry .

One look at Dirgantara's product line will show you a list of copies of mainly European products and one American helicopter design .

http://www.indonesian-aerospace.com/

CASA on the other hand prior to entering EADS or co developing the cn 235 already had a long history of original aircraft development such as the C 212, and of course later developed the stretched C 295, its not hard to conclude who had the expertise in the cn 235 "partnership" ( see below ) .

So why claim the CN 235 as Indonesian when it clearly was not solely developed by Indonesia ?, now id ask you to show me a successful solely Indonesian developed large aircraft ... ? .

EADS and the Europeans frequently do a few joint ventures with everyone wheter its Indonesia, S.Korea or India and Turkey etc, the Phillipines can basically go to EADS tommorow and say "hmmn can we co develop the successor to the CN 235 and here's the money were willing to put into the project" and the country can boast "its own transport aircraft ?", but this wouldnt mean much until the country could develop original designs through its own innovation .

When you reach Japans Kawasaki, Brazils Embraer, Italy's Alenia, France's Dassault and ATR or Canada's Bombardier level of original design and innovation then you would have a true aerospace industry to speak of, instead of confusing one off ventures and license production/assembly for one, which any country can basically do as exemplified by Turkeys own production of CN235's and its intention to export it .

You two can get as nationalistic as you want and i know that it hurts to be confronted with things that challenge the conception of reality that you have been made to believe in life, but misplaced pride wont change reality ..., until then i wish good luck to Indonesia and its attempt to build an aerospace industry .

--------------------

http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/sulfikar/technological-nationalism.pdf

As one of few aircraft producers in Third World countries, IPTN was a prominent symbol of Indonesian
national esteem and pride. In the eyes of its proponents, IPTN was a vehicle that would enable the country to think of themselves as equal to Western nations. In truth, IPTN was a political construct emanating from circumstances constituted by power relations, industrial-oriented development, and technological imagination—and all hinging on the rhetoric of nationalism.

IPTN operations began with agreements with MBB and Construccione´s Aeronauticas, S.A. (CASA) of
Spain. These two European companies provided technological assistance to IPTN during its infancy.
As a startup, IPTN produced under license MBB’s BO-105 helicopters and CASA’s 12-passenger C-212
Aviocar. It took 3 years for IPTN technicians to learn how to construct an aircraft down to its smallest parts.

This process required both technical and administrative skills, for every part had to be drawn
and documented. During the first decade, IPTN grew rapidly in terms of employee numbers and projects.

Several joint ventures with Western corporations were signed. For example, IPTN and French Aerospatiale agreed to produce the PUMA SA 330; IPTN and Bell Helicopter Textron manufactured 100 Bell-412 helicopters. In 1986, IPTN succeeding in getting an order from General Dynamics to manufacture F-16 components .

In 1979, IPTN and CASA agreed to jointly develop a new propeller aircraft called CN235. This 35-seat
aircraft was designed for medium-range distance based on the US FAR Part 25. It cost US$ 20 million, a cost shared equally by IPTN and CASA through ownership of Aircraft Technologies Corporation (AIRTEC) based in Madrid. During the project, IPTN engineers flew back and forth to Spain to learn from and work together with their counterparts at CASA.

bagak

May 15th, 2010, 03:41 PM

http://www3.ntu.edu.sg/home/sulfikar/technological-nationalism.pdf

As one of few aircraft producers in Third World countries, IPTN was a prominent symbol of Indonesian
national esteem and pride. In the eyes of its proponents, IPTN was a vehicle that would enable the country to think of themselves as equal to Western nations. In truth, IPTN was a political construct emanating from circumstances constituted by power relations, industrial-oriented development, and technological imagination—and all hinging on the rhetoric of nationalism.

IPTN operations began with agreements with MBB and Construccione´s Aeronauticas, S.A. (CASA) of
Spain. These two European companies provided technological assistance to IPTN during its infancy.
As a startup, IPTN produced under license MBB’s BO-105 helicopters and CASA’s 12-passenger C-212
Aviocar. It took 3 years for IPTN technicians to learn how to construct an aircraft down to its smallest parts.

This process required both technical and administrative skills, for every part had to be drawn
and documented. During the first decade, IPTN grew rapidly in terms of employee numbers and projects.

Several joint ventures with Western corporations were signed. For example, IPTN and French Aerospatiale agreed to produce the PUMA SA 330; IPTN and Bell Helicopter Textron manufactured 100 Bell-412 helicopters. In 1986, IPTN succeeding in getting an order from General Dynamics to manufacture F-16 components .

In 1979, IPTN and CASA agreed to jointly develop a new propeller aircraft called CN235. This 35-seat
aircraft was designed for medium-range distance based on the US FAR Part 25. It cost US$ 20 million, a cost shared equally by IPTN and CASA through ownership of Aircraft Technologies Corporation (AIRTEC) based in Madrid. During the project, IPTN engineers flew back and forth to Spain to learn from and work together with their counterparts at CASA.

Errr it was like 30 years ago... but now it's a complete different story... it has developed and advanced beyond what you can think of...:lol: but who cares about what you think, we are now less dependent on other country regarding our weaponry, we built our own air craft, our own war ship, our own rocket, our own machine gun, esetara esetara.

Btw, one thing you should always keep in mind. Technology are never GIVEN, they are invented or stolen for that matter.... do you really think some other country would generously hand out their technology to us? :lol:

Building aircraft isn't like making soap, you cant simply ask for a license and build your own factory in your home country and print out at the tail of the aircraft "Made in xxx, under license of xxx" that is ridiculous....:lol:

Arvor

May 15th, 2010, 04:30 PM

Technology are never GIVEN, they are invented or stolen for that matter.... do you really think some other country would generously hand out their technology to us ?

It was not indeed given you paid to get some Spanish knowledge but which you seem to have failed to build upon since , so 30 years later your still stuck with the same old cn 235 frame .

we are now less dependent on other country regarding our weaponry, we built our own air craft, our own war ship,

Yes congratulations you can now "assemble copies" of other peoples ideas and have now reached the level of Japan in the 1910's ... , your now just a hundred years behind .

bagak

May 15th, 2010, 06:01 PM

It was not indeed given you paid to get some Spanish knowledge but which you seem to have failed to build upon since , so 30 years later your still stuck with the same old cn 235 frame .

LOL! no offense from your posts it seem you donnt know anything about military.

btw South Korean did bought CN 235 from Indonesia and while we at it, CASA Spain failed on Modification CN_235 series into anti sub-marine aircraft while PT.Dirgantara succed, now they had joint co-operation with Turkey to made CN 235 for such kind.

Yes congratulations you can now "assemble copies" of other peoples ideas and have now reached the level of Japan in the 1910's ... , your now just a hundred years behind .

:lol: if we are now hundreds years behind japan, then where are you? in Jurassic park period? oh well whatever....:lol:

ps: apology to all my Phillipinos friends, your know-it-all compatriot is just such a pain...

Arvor

May 15th, 2010, 06:14 PM

then where are you?

I am half European and Filipino so id say im somewhere in between and can see both sides of societal development, it is better to aknowledge reality rather than hide behind the narrow view of nationalism which can lead to a warped view of the world .

As far as the Phillipines is concerned yes it has fallen behind in military terms during the past 2 decades but im quite optimistic as to its ability to rapidly catch up in the coming years, remember that the state of the Phillipines military equipment is antiquated by choice as the country chose to spend no more than a mere 1% of GDP on defence compared to its neighbours, which means that it has room to increase defence spending .

Not that it should rush anyway since its mutual defence treaty with the US means that its territorial integrity will be defended by the US in the event of a serious threat .

In economic terms

The Phillipines must concentrate on developing civilian industry and infrastructure much in the same way that Japan has done and only when it is develop should it increase defence spending using in turn civilian industry for creating a viable and sustainable defence industry .

The Phillipines is ahead of Indonesia in this sense and is more often recognized as a newly industrialized country than the latter, the Phillipines has a huge population but a smaller land mass which means greater urban concentrations and less costs to develop overall infrastructure .

Luzon in particular could reach fully developed levels whitin two decades by which time Luzons GDP alone and industrial development could rival S.Korea and Taiwan combined, which means that even if we were to only spend 1 or 2% of GDP on defence it would still increase in real terms from todays level .

gaLj

May 15th, 2010, 06:52 PM

DND rushing acquisition of Navy vessels
(The Philippine Star) Updated May 16, 2010 12:00 AM

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=575688&publicationSubCategoryId=63

MANILA, Philippines - Outgoing Defense Secretary Norberto Gonzales is rushing the acquisition of one or two multi-role vessels through a government-to-government contract at a cost of from P5 billion to P10 billion.

“I hope it is not considered a midnight purchase. We will try to have it finalized,” Gonzales said in an ambush interview at the Philippine Navy headquarters yesterday. He was at the Navy headquarters to formally install as new Navy Flag Officer in Command in an acting capacity Rear Admiral Danilo Cortez, who replaced retired Vice Admiral Ferdinand Golez.

To fast track documentation and acquisition of the vessels, Gonzales also announced that he was “borrowing” Golez from his family to be his defense consultant.

“I asked him (Golez) to render his services to the Defense department for him to see all the aspects of the modernization program, particularly for the Navy,” Gonzales said. It was not clear how long Golez would serve as consultant.

Gonzales said the vessels would likely come from South Korea or Singapore.

Several quarters have been questioning Gonzales’ motives in setting aside public bidding in favor of government-to-government deals in the acquisition of military vehicles and equipment.

With barely 45 days left in office as Defense chief, Gonzales stressed that a government-to-government transaction is the fastest way to acquire the needed equipment for the Armed Forces’ modernization.

He said a government-to-government deal, instead of a private contract, is a guarantee against corruption.

He added that the vessels could be delivered within two years from signing of contract.

The acquisition would be funded from the budget for military modernization in 2009 and this year totaling P10 billion.

“The AFP already has a list of what should be acquired in 2009, so we’re looking at 2009 and 2010 because it’s already 2010,” he said.

Aside from the P10 billion, Gonzales said a multi-year “obligational authority” from Congress would ensure funds for the procurement and purchases by the Defense department.

“There’s already an approved list of acquisition for 2009 and for 2010. Once these lists are approved and (government-to-government contract) signed, delivery would be within two years,” Gonzales.

He added that several night attack helicopters for the Air Force are already due for delivery.

The STAR learned that these attack helicopters were reconditioned Cobra combat helicopters which the Defense department purchased for more than P3 billion from Israel.

The government-to-government procurement has drawn suspicion because the units acquired were not new contrary to President Arroyo’s instructions.

“What we’ve got are reconditioned, not brand new,” a defense insider said

Good development for the Philippines Navy

MPV or a frigate/destroyer class warships ?

Anyway, we are getting reconditioned AH-1 cobras with upgraded communication equipment from israel

Arvor

May 15th, 2010, 07:30 PM

http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/000/407/661_Bell%20AH-1%20Cobra.JPG

Not bad as an interim solution .

http://english.hhi.co.kr/UploadFactory/Editor/patrol-vessel.jpg

http://www.fredsplace.org/images/boutwell/special/030.jpg

http://cache4.asset-cache.net/xc/71152138.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FD3D6E8E24F8AD364C36B2F6D607724EA8B5385992FFB67D26DA70E170507C691C

I dont think it would be a frigate but more like an ocean patrol vessel of some sort .

Probably something like those South Korean coastguard vessels above if from S.Korea, given the Phillippines ferry disasters such a ship would be very useful .

David-80

May 16th, 2010, 01:48 AM

jpdm

May 16th, 2010, 02:24 AM

Is this for real? Any update if so? The filipinos should really device their ingenuity and improve their inventions such as these. It would make a world of difference if we can learn to be more self sufficient.

This is true. Then again, problem with our country is that we dont prioritize defense.

Anyway, hopefully, the new Philippine administration can fully address such problem like corruption, funds intended for urgent projects like AFP modernization will be finally realized.

jpdm

May 16th, 2010, 02:26 AM

Good development for the Philippines Navy

Anyway, we are getting reconditioned AH-1 cobras with upgraded communication equipment from israel

http://blogsimages.skynet.be/images/000/407/661_Bell%20AH-1%20Cobra.JPG

Not bad as an interim solution .

Yes, this is ok for me. Especially if these CObras are still in production in the US. (Actually they are. The US came up with brand new Cobras with updated avionics)

kenken94

May 16th, 2010, 06:14 AM

This is true. Then again, problem with our country is that we dont prioritize defense.

Anyway, hopefully, the new Philippine administration can fully address such problem like corruption, funds intended for urgent projects like AFP modernization will be finally realized.

They believe the U.S could defend us FOREVER that's why..........:lol:

gaLj

May 16th, 2010, 10:49 AM

Possible acquisition(s) for Navy

amphibious transport dock
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4Ulhsnr0_Co/STwYnSxkFOI/AAAAAAAAAUA/c5AReUPTEzo/s400/2008-12-08_011904.png

corvette
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_En-sxfOkXP8/Sjs8UMJKYBI/AAAAAAAACNE/v8YFlGkiiXE/s400/Victory+Keypublishing.jpg

patrol vessel
http://www.navalhistory.dk/images/Pressebilleder/2008/P521_mkII.jpg

frigate ( far fetched )
http://www.marinebuzz.com/marinebuzzuploads/Simbex201017thSingaporeIndiaMaritimeBila_6B5C/RSS_Intrepid_pennant_69.png

Arvor

May 16th, 2010, 03:08 PM

The Phillipines is ahead of Indonesia in this sense and is more often recognized as a newly industrialized country than the latter, the Phillipines has a huge population but a smaller land mass which means greater urban concentrations and less costs to develop overall infrastructure .

*cough* yes, we are not comparable to the philippines, we are only a G20 country and not very important. Hope the best for the Philippines

What has my comment regarding the Phillipines and the island of Luzon's potential to develop rapidly due to its smaller land mass while having large populations got to do with your importance ? .

Indonesia at this time is in the G20 because it is the largest country in ASEAN in terms of territory and economy by virtue of it's larger population twice that of the Phillipines .

However the G20 actually shows the dramatic disparities between its members, when you think about it, it takes 230 million Indonesians and a territory dozens of times larger to almost equal the economy of just for example lets say its former colonial motherland the Netherlands, which GDP is larger than its former colony with just 16 million people and a landmass 1/3rd that of Luzon .

And this is exactly my point like the Netherlands, Singapore or Hong Kong and Taiwan or the Japanese islands, that the island of Luzon can rapidly become an economic powerhouse equaling that of Taiwan and S.Korea combined whitin two decades if it plays its game right ( greater efforts in education, attracting foreign talent and investment and its infrastructure ), due to the relatively smaller area it would have to industrialize and develop while having a population that could reach 70 million by that time, let alone the rest of the country which have their own potential strength's such as the Visayas and Tourism .

So who knows who else would represent ASEAN in the G20 in 20 years time, anyway im happy for Indonesia being in the G20 i wish you all the best in the G20 and lots of fun :).

Membership does not reflect exactly the 19 largest national economies of the world in any given year. The organization states :

In a forum such as the G-20, it is particularly important for the number of countries involved to be restricted and fixed to ensure the effectiveness and continuity of its activity. There are no formal criteria for G-20 membership and the composition of the group has remained unchanged since it was established. In view of the objectives of the G-20, it was considered important that countries and regions of systemic significance for the international financial system be included. Aspects such as geographical balance and population representation also played a major part.

johnmizer

May 16th, 2010, 04:43 PM

wow parang sarap eh drive yag KIA na yan... tingnan natin tapang ng mga jeep hehehe kia yan as in kia pride?

boom_box

May 16th, 2010, 05:04 PM

Sana magkaroon din tayo nang bagong fleet para sa air mobility operations..
Ok na sana yung C-130 pero mukhang marami atang limitatons ang C-130 especially kung sa upgrades at modernization..

Kaya ito nalang maganda kunin para sa PAF..

Airbus A400
Flight deck
http://www.worldwide-military.com/Military%20Aircraft/Tactical%20Transport%20plaatjes/Groot/A400M_005.jpg

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_A400M_Desert_Cargo_Drop_Concept_lg.jpg

Arvor

May 16th, 2010, 05:49 PM

A400M is good but expensive hopefully the PAF can get some someday, its capacity is between a c130 and c17 it would be ideal .

Malayasia ordered 4

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jHqClmD77CA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jHqClmD77CA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
First flight EADS Spain

wonkcerbon

May 16th, 2010, 05:54 PM

The point is the fact that Indonesia has been unable to "innovate" and create a whole new product line without a foreign partner shows the level of its aerospace industry .

just fyi,PT. Diragantara had hundreds million US$ order for N 250 from gulf country in 1990es before IMF told us to scraped the project, for the reason still unknown till today...This aircraft prototyping technology fly by wire, the world's first started in 1992.

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1432/0067230.jpg

not to mention Dirgantara also had another project like N 2130, the regional jet aircraft which's IMF also told us to stopped the project,

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5133/004n2130s.jpg

'anyway Im sorry to pinoys here for hijack the thread

Arvor

May 16th, 2010, 06:22 PM

Don't you guys ever get tired of usurping other peoples inventions ?, fly by wire was pioneered by Airbus on civilian passenger aircraft 30 years ago, while Fly by wire technology as a whole has been researched and developed by the western militaries 40 years ago during the cold war ... .

I did ask for a succesful aircraft in the market as a prototype is just a prototype and a 3d animation is just a pretty picture .

Well your country was broke and could no longer prop up the political project, you can't expect the IMF to lend your country money from other countries tax payers while you waste it and your peoples on vain political projects by your elites, but then again Indonesia under Suharto was hardly a democracy and was thus unaccountable to the people and the way their taxes and wealth were spent .

$$ which could have gone into improving Indonesian citizens lives was basically squandered, but who cares if the people of West Papua have no schools ? .

The commercial failure of these projects lies exactly on the nature of it as a vain political project rather than a real and viable commercial one, this is exactly why i do not believe that the Phillipines should spend alot of money building "its own" weapons on one off projects like those which are likely to fizzle out, until its own commercial and civilian industry can sustain itself commercially and step over into building defence equipment .

Until then the country should spend its money wisely by investing in civilian industries on a more systematic way and for the meantime to buy equipment and assembling licenses from existing and established manufacturers .

There is simply no way small countries can compete in the international arms and aerospace market with their own tiny domestic markets, the big and established players lead is simply unbreakable, even China and its potentially huge internal market and massively subsidized industries will have a hard time breaking through internationally .

jpdm

May 17th, 2010, 02:21 AM

Until then the country should spend its money wisely by investing in civilian industries on a more systematic way and for the meantime to [B]buy equipment and assembling licenses from existing and established manufacturers .

I will go for this.

India, China, Poland, Israel, Czech Republic, Romania and even Japan are doing this. Why not the country?

And actully we have done that already with the Italian S-211 trainer aircraft through PADC. I just posted a picture of a newer version of this Italian aircraft that can be used as a light attack aircraft. Why not we consider them instead of buying second hand junks from the US?

wonkcerbon

May 17th, 2010, 03:37 AM

Don't you guys ever get tired of usurping other peoples inventions ?, fly by wire was pioneered by Airbus on civilian passenger aircraft 30 years ago, while Fly by wire technology as a whole has been researched and developed by the western militaries 40 years ago during the cold war ... .

Well your country was broke and could no longer prop up the political project, you can't expect the IMF to lend your country money from other countries tax payers while you waste it and your peoples on vain political projects by your elites, but then again Indonesia under Suharto was hardly a democracy and was thus unaccountable to the people and the way their taxes and wealth were spent .

$$ which could have gone into improving Indonesian citizens lives was basically squandered, but who cares if the people of West Papua have no schools ? .

there's several system fly by wire, but we did improved and patented some of the system:
IPTN N-250-100 is a 64 to 70 seater wide-body aircraft, fly-by-wire, high speed turboprop. It is the first commuter aircraft with 3 axis fly-by-wire control system.
from : flight simulator

'and while we at it there's a talk to reviving both projects since our economy conditions little bit better, some foreign countries even interested with the aircrafts

and read this carefully :
Both Projects since the begining Never Ever paid by another countries tax payers

'and btw west papua GDP better than any Phillipine provinces in Mindanao, and since 2000es we have new policy where local goverment managing their own resources and budget, then these days they cannt blamed central goverment anymore if they left behind by another province in term of development.

bagak

May 17th, 2010, 04:54 AM

there's several system fly by wire, but we did improved and patented some of the system:

from : flight simulator

'and while we at it there's a talk to reviving both projects since our economy conditions little bit better, some foreign countries even interested with the aircrafts

and read this carefully :
Both Projects since the begining Never Ever paid by another countries tax payers

'and btw west papua GDP better than any Phillipine provinces in Mindanao, and since 2000es we have new policy where local goverment managing their own resources and budget, then these days they cannt blamed central goverment anymore if they left behind by another province in term of development.

Whyyy........whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.....dude ...? why keep replying his post? his idiotic brain thinks it's better to "produce" gay male beauty pageant :lol: instead of aircraft, warship, machine gun, rocket etc with our own resources, our own experts... for some one who has zero capability of producing ANYTHING.... he talks too much nonsense.

C'mon... we know who we are.

@ Arvor: Do you know that there are Asian economy and Asian defense force threats under Asian Forum? we can "discuss" about your statement and argument there, instead of ruining this threat. Or if you got any balls plz come to our forum we also have economy and defense threats... and of course with your knowledge and expertise on economy and defense you wouldn't scare....would you.... ;) unless you are one of those lady boy.... ;) we'll wait for you pretty boy.....

Englehart

May 17th, 2010, 02:24 PM

I will go for this.

India, China, Poland, Israel, Czech Republic, Romania and even Japan are doing this. Why not the country?

And actully we have done that already with the Italian S-211 trainer aircraft through PADC. I just posted a picture of a newer version of this Italian aircraft that can be used as a light attack aircraft. Why not we consider them instead of buying second hand junks from the US?

agree din
ako sa iyo pede muna konti muna muna or mura muna na combat aircrafts like you posted na mga light attack aircrafts sooner pag may budget na talaga bili talaga na mas malakas na aircraft....

BTW may nadagdag bang C-130 sa PAF o nagiisa pa rin?

kalbongdad

May 17th, 2010, 02:57 PM

mukhang meron silang na repair.....so dalawa na c130 ngayon station sya sa cebu...i think c130 is ideal.....sanay na mga pilot natin....at maganda naman ang performance nito......maraming bansa ang gumagamit nito....kaso kung bibili tayo ng pre owned medyo yung 3yrs old lang naman....parang kotse yan eh....yung medyo matagal na...costly na rin i-maintain...

Arvor

May 17th, 2010, 03:48 PM

IPTN N-250-100 is a 64 to 70 seater wide-body aircraft, fly-by-wire, high speed turboprop. It is the first commuter aircraft with 3 axis fly-by-wire control system.

from : flight simulator

Flight simulator is a nice game but it is not an authoritative source for information !, as ive said Airbus was first in introducing fly by wire in civilian aircraft .

Whyyy........whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.....dude ...? why keep replying his post? his idiotic brain thinks it's better to "produce" gay male beauty pageant instead of aircraft, warship, machine gun, rocket etc with our own resources, our own experts... for some one who has zero capability of producing ANYTHING.... he talks too much nonsense.

Or if you got any balls plz come to our forum we also have economy and defense threats... and of course with your knowledge and expertise on economy and defense you wouldn't scare....would you.... unless you are one of those lady boy.... we'll wait for you pretty boy.....

http://newscentralsite.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Hanjin.jpg
Hanjin Subic Bay

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i3/OlegX/MX-8Barako_01.jpg
Steelcraft MX8

http://nuke.aerotech-holding.com/Portals/0/Clark_01.gif
http://nuke.aerotech-holding.com/AerotechGroup/AerotechIndustriesPhilippinesINCHome/AEROTECHINDPHILIPPINESINCServicesPage2/tabid/126/Default.aspx
Aerotech Industries Phillipines

The Phillipines has similar capabilities as Indonesia, it has the ability to assemble and or produce aircrafts under license it already has and will with the new Italian light combat aircraft that it has ordered, it also has the ability to build ships or indeed warships under license for that matter even Korean designed LPD's like indonesia probably even more easier due to Hanjin corps giant shipyard in Subic Bay Phillipines, the Phillipines also has a local APC manufacturer and so on .

This has nothing to do with being "gay", the ideas you are a proponent of are outdated in the modern world, who are you trying to impress with tiny propeller aircraft or primitive apc's ?, these technologies and knowledge has been around for a century and any small country can now produce them or for that matter a wealthy individual .

You now want me to go into another forum, do you seriously believe that what i have to say there will alter your fragile psyche ?, if i can drive you nuts here by simply being realistic im certain to drive you nuts there aswell, as ive said before i am aware that your understanding of reality is different because you have been isolated from the outside world and your media has spoon fed you this image of Indonesia as somehow being some kind of superpower and that it is always n°1, what you have to realize when you go to international forums is that those belief systems will clash with reality .

Oh im sure you wish that Indonesia has pretty ladyboys, but i think Thailand beats you at that .

But if that is what it takes to spare this thread from your delicate psyche's i will visit your thread .

marxman

May 17th, 2010, 04:07 PM

still... at the end of the day... the indonesian armed forces is better equipped compared to the AFP...

the AFP still sucks...

Arvor

May 17th, 2010, 04:48 PM

Compared to the Phillipines yes but given that both countries barely spends 1% of GDP on defence while Indonesias population is twice that of the Phillipines ..., in order to match Indonesia the Phillipines would simply have to increase its defence budget by 1 extra % point of gdp .

Once again i come back to the point that given the Phillipines smaller territory its easier to defend even with only half Indonesias defence budget as Indonesia is a few times larger physically than the Phillipines making it next to impossible to defend with their budgets .

bulakenyo

May 17th, 2010, 09:56 PM

agree din
ako sa iyo pede muna konti muna muna or mura muna na combat aircrafts like you posted na mga light attack aircrafts sooner pag may budget na talaga bili talaga na mas malakas na aircraft....

BTW may nadagdag bang C-130 sa PAF o nagiisa pa rin?

i agree, dapat light attack aircrafts muna kasi wala namang immediate threat from a neighboring country.

Flight simulator is a nice game but it is not an authoritative source for information !, as ive said Airbus was first in introducing fly by wire in civilian aircraft .

http://newscentralsite.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Hanjin.jpg
Hanjin Subic Bay

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i3/OlegX/MX-8Barako_01.jpg
Steelcraft MX8

http://nuke.aerotech-holding.com/Portals/0/Clark_01.gif
http://nuke.aerotech-holding.com/AerotechGroup/AerotechIndustriesPhilippinesINCHome/AEROTECHINDPHILIPPINESINCServicesPage2/tabid/126/Default.aspx
Aerotech Industries Phillipines

The Phillipines has similar capabilities as Indonesia, it has the ability to assemble and or produce aircrafts under license it already has and will with the new Italian light combat aircraft that it has ordered, it also has the ability to build ships or indeed warships under license for that matter even Korean designed LPD's like indonesia probably even more easier due to Hanjin corps giant shipyard in Subic Bay Phillipines, the Phillipines also has a local APC manufacturer and so on .

First step na yang license for the S211. Sana in the near term maka-acquire na din tayo ng license to build the M-346. :)

bulakenyo

May 17th, 2010, 10:07 PM

Hindi pala attack version ng Sokols ang ia-acquire natin, transport version lang, sabi sa timawa.net. Pero oks na rin kasi mag-acquire din naman tayo ng Cobras. Sana yung Sokols lagyan man lang ng machine guns sa gilid para may konting ngipin yung chopper.

FlashCollider

May 17th, 2010, 11:07 PM

Whyyy........whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.....dude ...? why keep replying his post? his idiotic brain thinks it's better to "produce" gay male beauty pageant :lol: instead of aircraft, warship, machine gun, rocket etc with our own resources, our own experts... for some one who has zero capability of producing ANYTHING.... he talks too much nonsense.

C'mon... we know who we are.

@ Arvor: Do you know that there are Asian economy and Asian defense force threats under Asian Forum? we can "discuss" about your statement and argument there, instead of ruining this threat. Or if you got any balls plz come to our forum we also have economy and defense threats... and of course with your knowledge and expertise on economy and defense you wouldn't scare....would you.... ;) unless you are one of those lady boy.... ;) we'll wait for you pretty boy.....

I hope we will stop this childish game of who can spit the farthest.
enough said, everyone go back to the topic: PHILIPPINE DEFENSE FORCE Leave our neighbours alone. kaya tayo nagkakagulo minsan eh.

TheAvenger

May 18th, 2010, 09:34 AM

http://www.change.org/nguyen_thai_hoc_foundation/petitions/view/change_the_name_south_china_sea_to_southeast_asia_sea

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/kerenskyalex/southeastasiasea.jpg

In the sixteenth century, the world had little knowledge about Southeast Asia. Western merchants and sailors of that time called the sea, which is encompassed by the present-day Southeast Asian countries, the “South China Sea” to refer to the enclosed sea basin and its location in relation to the surrounding countries lying to the north of Australia, east of India, and south of China.

Notably, it was once called the Champa Sea or Sea of Cham, after the maritime kingdom that flourished before the sixteenth century.

In this modern era, as human civilization evolved towards a multi-faceted global collaboration, the international community, since the 20th century, has geographically formed a sub-region in Asia to address mankind’s need. This region was officially named Southeast Asia and consists of Burma, Brunei, Cambodia, East Timor, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, the Philippines, and Vietnam.

Southeast Asia represents approximately 600 million people who have, in a joint effort, made unique and original contributions to modern civilization in many aspects, including culture, science, education, economics, politics, etc. In addition to the above, the followings are facts:

1. The United Nations has officially recognized the region and the
name “Southeast Asia”.

2. The countries of Southeast Asia encompass almost the entire South
China Sea with a total coastline measuring approximately 130,000
kilometers (81,250 miles) long; whereas the Southern China’s coastline
measured about 2,800 kilometers (1,750 miles) in length.

3. The sea is not restricted to a specific country. It is a common heritage of
mankind and has actually been used by the international community for
centuries as the second most important water channel in the world.

Join the campaign to ask the Presidents and Prime Ministers of 11 countries of Southeast Asia, the President of United Nations Atlas of the Oceans, and the CEOs and Presidents of 11 geographic organizations around the world to change the name “South China Sea” to “Southeast Asia Sea”.

Sign the petition and your action will forever be remembered in the modern history of Southeast Asia.

http://www.change.org/nguyen_thai_hoc_foundation/petitions/view/change_the_name_south_china_sea_to_southeast_asia_sea

Related story / weblinks:

http://jibraelangel2blog.blogspot.com/2010/04/photos-of-pagasa-island-in-kalayaan.html

http://jibraelangel2blog.blogspot.com/2010/04/kalayaan-islands-group-and-spratly.html

Arvor

May 18th, 2010, 04:04 PM

What if 1 billion Chinese sign a petition for "South China Sea" lol ?.

Well jokes aside i really dont think the Chinese would stand idly by as such a name change would be highly political especially with regards the Spratly's and other contested areas ..., the Chinese have a vested interest not least national pride in calling it South China Sea, the best bet would be if ASEAN unilaterally names it South East Asian Sea and if they are willing and able to stick togheter to face the Chinese backlash .

But anyway good luck with the petition .

Arvor

May 21st, 2010, 06:52 AM

Christian_123

May 21st, 2010, 07:26 PM

Eto ang sa singapore:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/RSAF_at_Mountain_Home_AFB.JPG/800px-RSAF_at_Mountain_Home_AFB.JPG

Habang eto naman ang sa atin:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4065/4318277191_f0d8c972d1.jpg

:nuts:

Sana in my lifetime man lang, makita kong maging modern uli ang airforce natin at ang buong army at navy. :cheers:

Long_mane

May 22nd, 2010, 06:58 PM

Bibili kaya ang Pinas nito.:D

Ka-50

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Maks2005/Highlights/Ka50TopView1oClock.jpg

http://www.aviastar.org/maks/ka-50.jpg

http://www.enemyforces.net/helicopters/ka50_2.jpg

kenken94

May 23rd, 2010, 08:50 AM

Nasa presyo yan, kasi sa ngayon............ masyadong mababa ang budget ng Militar at mapupunta pa sa bulsa nga mga DI INA-ASAHAN. If we are even able to buy weapons then commonly second hand or maba ang kalidad nito o kay hanggang refitting nalang talaga ang AFP.

Hopefully, makaktulong yung planong gawing 2% of GDP ang budget allocation ng Militar.

the glimpser

May 23rd, 2010, 08:59 AM

At 112 years, Philippine Navy is one of oldest
http://ph.news.yahoo.com/mb/20100522/tph-at-112-years-philippine-navy-is-one-020e1c8.html
Manila Bulletin - Saturday, May 22SendIM StoryPrint.

At 112, the Philippine Navy (PN) is one of the oldest in Asia, and at one point during the '60s, it was the envy of the region. Other developing nations in Southeast Asia that were then beginning to form their own navies even took guidance from the Philippines where maritime defense in concerned. However, five decades later, the Philippine Navy is now considered the weakest in Asia - owing to a series of internal conflicts and political crises that resulted in a turn back in the country's naval defense development. Add to this the fact that the government had been spending less - compared to its Asian neighbors - for its military forces. With the Philippines being an archipelagic nation with a maritime domain that spans some 37,652 kilometers or 10.6 percent of the total 356,000 kilometers of the world's coastline, the need for a strong navy has always been emphasized. In an interview, Lt. Col. Edgard Arevalo, Navy spokesman, said the Navy undoubtedly faces an especially challenging gargantuan task with most of its ships, as no less than former Navy Flag Officer-in-Command, Vice Adm. Ferdinand Golez admits, are even older than him and most of the naval fleet's officers. "That has long been an open secret. To the pundits, external aggression is remote at this time," said Arevalo, adding, "If the Philippines wants to regain the respect of its neighbors and restore pride in the hearts of its people, a strong navy is imperative." Navy officials openly admit that the PN, at present, has obsolete equipment, some of which are already 50 to 60-years-old. One of its ships, in fact, has seen action during World War II and the Vietnam War. Another ship being used by the naval fleet was commissioned in 1943 in the United States, where its sister ship is now displayed in a museum. Yet, despite its weakness in terms of naval capability due to obsolete, inefficient and ageing equipment, some of which have already reached or are reaching the end of their lifespan, the Philippine Navy still manages to serve the nation well and even deliver tremendous accomplishments. Among the remarkable achievements posted by Fleet-Marine units in Basilan and Sulu was the neutralization of several leaders of the Al Qaeda-linked Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG), including Khadaffi Janjalani, Abu Sabaya, and recently Albader Parad. To this, no less than outgoing President Arroyo remarked that the Navy's accomplishments makes her proud to have become its commander-in-chief. Rear Admiral Danilo Cortez, acting Flag Officer-in-Command, vowed to continue the Navy's initiatives, particularly those set by his predecessor, Vice Adm. Ferdinand Golez who retired from active military service last May 15.

Brandon32

May 23rd, 2010, 09:58 AM

Christian_123

May 23rd, 2010, 03:13 PM

Philippine Navy, The only navy in the world who uses ships that should be in a Museum.

jpdm

May 23rd, 2010, 04:57 PM

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_En-sxfOkXP8/Sh4hq27fvVI/AAAAAAAABiI/T_rp9_BVVII/s400/SF-260TP+Philippines.jpg

New trainer planes for PAF due

THE Air Force will receive the first batch of 18 brand new SF-260 basic training aircraft next month to augment the present squadron of trainer aircraft based at the Air Education and Training Command in Fernando Air Base in Lipa City.

http://www.malaya.com.ph/05192010/news9.html
Further reading

Air Force has 18 brand new trainer jets

By Rudy Santos
(The Philippine Star)
Updated May 23, 2010 12:00 AM

MANILA, Philippines - The Philippine Air Force (PAF) has 18 brand new SF-260 training aircraft now being assembled at the Clark Freeport to augment the present trainer aircraft based at the Air Education Command in Lipa City, Batangas.

The whole package, which is equivalent to one squadron, would cost the government P661 million.

The Italian-made SF-260 is a propeller-driven, two-seater plane that has been the backbone of the PAF training schools for the past decades.

Only six of the old SF-260s remain in the two squadrons of the original batch, but some of them are still serviceable and could be repaired or upgraded, according to PAF chief Lt. Gen. Oscar Rabena.

Rabena attended the turnover ceremony at Villamor Air Base yesterday where he announced the change of command of the Public Information Office (PIO), the Office of Special Studies and the Modernization Project Management Office.

Outgoing PIO director Lt. Col. Gerry Zamudio was replaced by Lt. Col. Miguel Ernesto Okol; Office of Special Studies former head Lt. Col. Aristotle Gonzales was replaced by Lt. Col. Connor Anthony Canlas.

Col. Dino Diño, on the other hand, is replacing the former head of the Air Force Modernization and Project Management Office Col. Jose Tanjaun Jr.

Rabena said the 18 trainer aircraft will be seen before the Air Force Day celebration on July 2 this year.

He said the purchase of the combat helicopters is just waiting for the signature of Defense Secretary Norberto Gonzales.

“We’re getting eight combat helicopters at a cost of P3 billion,” Rabena said, adding that the new choppers are capable of higher payload, and have better maneuverable capability.

The new choppers are made in Sokol, Poland, and would replace some of the ageing UH-IH Hueys in the PAF’s inventory.

At the moment, the PAF has an existing fleet of seven UH-IH dedicated for search and rescue missions. Another 34 units are posted in PAF centers all over the country, ready for various missions.

“The country will pay for all these hardware over a period of several years,” Rabena said, admitting that the price is quite high, but still within the country’s capability.

The PAF still has six of the S-211 jet trainers, which would soon be replaced by similar jet trainers of a generic kind.

Rabena said they are now choosing from among models from Europe, the United States and even Asia, and following evaluation, the Department of National Defense would open bidding for the purchase of such air assets.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/m311trainer/images/1-aermacchi-m311.jpg

The Aermacchi M-311 basic jet trainer and light combat aircraft.
The M-311 is a highly upgraded version of the S-211A, with a new aerodynamic configuration with new wing tips, fences and fuselage ventral fins, a new avionics suite, a strengthened structure and a 30% more powerful engine than the S-211. The first flight was successfully completed in June 2005.

jpdm

May 23rd, 2010, 05:14 PM

From wikipedia: present assets of the PAF

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/PAF_S211_2.jpg

S-211

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Philippine_MD-520.jpg

MD-520 Defender

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/PAF_OV10.jpg

OV-10

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/t-41c-N7893N_b.jpg

T-41

Christian_123

May 23rd, 2010, 05:30 PM

^^Mga museum pieces na un ibang assets nila :lol:

Long_mane

May 23rd, 2010, 05:35 PM

Christian_123

May 23rd, 2010, 05:47 PM

^^Dyan tayo magaling, hangat tumatakbo ay gagamitin parin. :lol:

BRP Kalinga Apayao (LT-516)
USS Garrett County (LST-786) was an LST-542-class tank landing ship built for the United States Navy during World War II. Named after Garrett County, Maryland, she was the only U.S. Naval vessel to bear the name.

LST-786 was laid down on 21 May 1944 at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania by the Dravo Corporation; launched on 22 July 1944; sponsored by Mrs. E. B. Keckler; and commissioned on 28 August 1944 with Lieutenant Eli T. Ringler, USCG, in command.

Republic of Vietnam and Philippine Navy

Decommissioned and transferred to South Vietnam for service in the Republic of Vietnam Navy on 23 April 1971, she was renamed RVNS Can Tho (HQ-801). The ship and her crew escaped to the Philippines with the fall of South Vietnamese government, after which custody was transferred to the Republic of the Philippines. She was renamed BRP Kalinga Apayao (LT-516) for service in the Philippine Navy, where it still serves today .

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/LST-786.jpg/741px-LST-786.jpg

At eto yata un minetion sa article:

USS Atherton (DE-169), a Cannon-class destroyer escort, was the only ship of the United States Navy to be named for Lt. (jg) John McDougal Atherton, who died when the USS Meredith sank near Guadalcanal during World War II.

Atherton (DE-169) was laid down on 14 January 1943 at Newark, New Jersey, by the Federal Drydock & Shipbuilding Co.; launched on 27 May 1943; sponsored by Mrs. Cornelia A. Atherton, the mother of Lt. (jg.) Atherton; completed at the Norfolk Navy Yard; and commissioned there on 29 August 1943, Lt. Comdr. Paul L. Mansell, Jr., USNR, in command.

Japan

USS Atherton was transferred to Japan in 1955 and commissioned in the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force as Hatsuhi (DE-263). After 20 years in service, she was retired in 1975 and was reverted back to the United States Navy.

Philippines

Atherton was transferred to Philippines in 1978. She was commissioned in Philippine Navy service in 1980 after a refit in South Korea as BRP Rajah Humabon (PS-78). She was reclassified as patrol frigate and changed the hull number to (PF-6). She was decommissioned in 1993, but was recommissioned in 1995 with a different hull number (PF-11). She is still in active service with the Philippine Navy as of 2010.

In world war 2:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Atherton_1.jpg/750px-Atherton_1.jpg

In 1967 in Japanese Navy:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Hatsuhi.jpg

In 2009-2010:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/BRP_Rajah_Humabon_(PF_11).jpg/800px-BRP_Rajah_Humabon_(PF_11).jpg

Bahaha, kakatawang nakakaawa talaga ang kalagayan ng PN :lol:

Ady001

May 24th, 2010, 03:15 AM

^^ It should be in a museum...

Pangarap ko na lang na sana'y maka-invest tayo sa Cloak and Stealth technology...

O gumawa man lang ng walking arms (ala Gundam, Wanzers...)

jpdm

May 24th, 2010, 03:44 AM

So far, I think the brand new Polish Sokol helicopters, brand new Italian turbo prop trainer aircrafts and brand new updated version of the s-211 are definitely worthy initial step for the DND to modernize our AFP.

Im hoping to read news about the acquisition of warships for the navy. Like the PAF, brand new modern medium size or fast attack crafts are ok for the navy. We dont need to buy immediately hi-tech and huge warships.

Although it will help especially with our conflicting claims in Spratly's with Asian rivals boasting of modern warships and submarines like China, taiwan, Indonesia and Malaysia.

Danny Chua

May 24th, 2010, 05:04 AM

^^ I agree. Our air force doesn't need big fancy jets (for now) because our priority is dealing with local insurgents and we can't afford them anyway. :yes:

As for our navy, well warships are an even bigger $$$ pit than aircraft, and it would be silly to assume that our government will have the means to upgrade our aging fleet. So instead of trying to keep up with others (which we can't afford), why not try an alternative tack? Currently our navy isn't going to fight those of our neighbors, it's primary tasks these days are chasing poachers and counter-insurgency, tasks that don't call for frigates, much less destroyers. Therefore I agree with you that what we need are small fast attack craft (cheap, cheap) which carry a sufficiently ranged and powerful punch (a little expense here). Missile boats could be the answer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_boat

Ooh looky here. The Singapore navy is retiring its missile boats, because they have the money and the squadron is upgrading (sizewise) to frigates:
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2008/may/13may08_nr2.html

http://www.pbase.com/synapseman/image/79480855
Maybe they can sell them to us cheap? :D

Now the missile boat does have a major weakness - it's almost helpless when attacked from the air, even with onboard SAMs. However I don't think our NPA, MILF or Abu Sayyaf have an air force. ;) Same goes for the illegal fishermen.

As for submarines, nothing short of us having submarines ourselves or ASW ships + aircraft will help. Unfortunately there is no way we can afford them now. So wala talaga tayong magagawa for now. :ohno: Idaan na lang muna sa diplomasya...

kenken94

May 24th, 2010, 05:37 AM

Nakaka-awa talga ang Navy and it's a shame na MARITIME nation ng Pinas tas ang hina ng Navy.

Christian_123

May 24th, 2010, 09:23 AM

^^ It should be in a museum...

Pangarap ko na lang na sana'y maka-invest tayo sa Cloak and Stealth technology...

O gumawa man lang ng walking arms (ala Gundam, Wanzers...)

^^Meron na tayo nyan. Pansinin mo, lahat ng naval ships ng PN ay invisible, kahit nga un crew hinde makita kung nasan un mga barko at SWELDO nila :nuts: :lol:

^^ I agree. Our air force doesn't need big fancy jets (for now) because our priority is dealing with local insurgents and we can't afford them anyway. :yes:

As for our navy, well warships are an even bigger $$$ pit than aircraft, and it would be silly to assume that our government will have the means to upgrade our aging fleet. So instead of trying to keep up with others (which we can't afford), why not try an alternative tack? Currently our navy isn't going to fight those of our neighbors, it's primary tasks these days are chasing poachers and counter-insurgency, tasks that don't call for frigates, much less destroyers. Therefore I agree with you that what we need are small fast attack craft (cheap, cheap) which carry a sufficiently ranged and powerful punch (a little expense here). Missile boats could be the answer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile_boat

Ooh looky here. The Singapore navy is retiring its missile boats, because they have the money and the squadron is upgrading (sizewise) to frigates:
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2008/may/13may08_nr2.html

http://www.pbase.com/synapseman/image/79480855
Maybe they can sell them to us cheap? :D

Now the missile boat does have a major weakness - it's almost helpless when attacked from the air, even with onboard SAMs. However I don't think our NPA, MILF or Abu Sayyaf have an air force. ;) Same goes for the illegal fishermen.

As for submarines, nothing short of us having submarines ourselves or ASW ships + aircraft will help. Unfortunately there is no way we can afford them now. So wala talaga tayong magagawa for now. :ohno: Idaan na lang muna sa diplomasya...

Sino nag sabi na can't afford tayo? Palusot lang ng AFP, PAF at PN Generals ang lahat. Talagang mayaman tayo, kaya lang sinasabi na can't afford tayo ay para makahingi o makabili ng lumang gamit from Uncle sam and friends habang kumikita ang sarili nilang bulsa. :ohno:

Kung mahirap talaga ang AFP, PAF at PN, e sana dapat nuon pa tapos ang gyera laban sa Abu Sayaff dahil naubos na budget nila. :nuts:

Talagang kaya natin bumili ng mga mamahaling gamit kung gugustuhin. Kaso pineperahan lang ng corrupt officials ang defense natin kaya kumahog parin tayo. :ohno:

Also, bakit pa tayo bibili ng lumang gamit ng Singapore navy? Bakit hinde nalang tayo bumili ng warships sa Hanjin Ship building company. Mamaya, yang second hand Singapore Navy ships na sinasabi mo ay Made in the philippines pala :lol:

Eto mga products ng Hanjin:
http://www.hanjinsc.com/eng/images/biz/ship/img_lsf2_01.jpg
http://www.hanjinsc.com/eng/images/biz/ship/img_lph01.jpg
http://www.hanjinsc.com/eng/images/biz/ship/img_lst4_01.jpg
http://www.hanjinsc.com/eng/images/biz/ship/img_frigate01.jpg

Check nyo nalang website nila for full details ng mga warship products nila:
http://www.hanjinsc.com/eng/biz/ship/frigate.aspx

Bakit pa bibili tayo ng imported? naka base lang yang hanjin sa SUBIC FREEPORT ZONE!! Kaya natin bumili ng bagong bago at cheap na warships sa kanila at Made in the philippines pa ang ships natin! :cheers:

Danny Chua

May 24th, 2010, 09:46 AM

^^ That (corruption) is another issue and I'm sure we are all familiar with it...

Our situation is almost exactly the same as during the Taiping Rebellion in Qing dynasty China before Zheng Guofan and his Xiang army came on the scene. A point has already came where the rebels have reached their limit to expand and were already infighting amongst themselves, and yet the regular army could not eliminate them, or refused to. Why? Because it (the rebellion) became a milking cow for the generals and officials tasked with its elimination. Just think of the annual $$$ in supplies, intelligence funds and whatnot that they can collect from the central government as long as the rebellion still exists (which goes into their pockets of course). Only with the arrival of a dedicated and unconventional general was the rebellion finally crushed once and for all (at great cost in $$$ and lives BTW).

It has been decades and we are still in stalemate. We need a government that has the will and determination to eliminate our long-time "friends" the NPA, MILF and Abu Sayyaf. As long as they exist they are like festering boils eating away at an otherwise healthy person. And can a person who is that sick be expected to be able to function normally? Trangkaso nga lang manghihina ka na eh...

Danny Chua

May 24th, 2010, 09:49 AM

That Singapore proposal was made half in jest... ;)

Yeah much better if we can build our own at Hanjin. Malay mo we can even export them to other countries later. :okay:

Christian_123

May 24th, 2010, 09:54 AM

That Singapore proposal was made half in jest... ;)

Yeah much better if we can build our own at Hanjin. Malay mo we can even export them to other countries later. :okay:

Actually, some of our neighbors actually buy warships from our local shipyards. :nuts:

Pansinin mo un nasa Hanjin website, lahat ng military products nila ay ginagamit ng Korean Navy. Pwede rin sila icommission para gumawa ng warships in accordance to the navy na nagcommission sa kanila.

Danny Chua

May 24th, 2010, 10:04 AM

Christian_123

May 24th, 2010, 10:13 AM

^^ Ah, okay. You learn something new everyday. :) Ironic, isn't it? We have such a good shipbuilding industry right here and yet the state of our navy...

So why is our own navy not buying from Hanjin? Price too high? Maybe instead of collecting taxes from them, our government should just force Hanjin to gift the PN with a ship or two every year... :lol:

Kaya hinde sila bumibili sa hanjin dahil hinde raw gawang Amerikano un barko. Masyadong sipsip ang PN sa US Navy :nuts:.

Also, Pwede yan idea mo. Lalaki ang inventory ng Navy natin kung ang pambayad nila ay Warships nalang.........kung papayag ang Hanjin :lol:

jpdm

May 24th, 2010, 01:10 PM

Christian_123

May 24th, 2010, 01:22 PM

Eto talaga ang kailangan natin para sa pag patrolya ng karagatan natin:
http://www.hanjinsc.com/eng/images/biz/ship/img_psk01.jpg
http://www.hanjinsc.com/eng/images/biz/ship/text_pkg01.gif

Sana i tap ng Phil navy ang Hanjin :cheers:

Danny Chua

May 25th, 2010, 05:07 AM

^^ Agreed. :yes:

Alinghi

May 25th, 2010, 07:42 AM

cool.. that looks like a sized-down Aegis cruiser

pero kahit mas maliit pa dyan sa Hanjin na PSK, pwede na.. what we need is a fast/agile gunboat platform with anti-ship, anti-submarine, and anti-air capabilities kahit hindi na guided systems

skyscrapertalk

May 25th, 2010, 08:34 AM

I heard that RP is interested also in evaluating the Makassar Class LPD ?

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/bintangrock/592back.jpg

http://i891.photobucket.com/albums/ac111/bintangrock/592left.jpg

http://solocybercity.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/kri-banjarmasin-592.jpg

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/2848/sby2.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_En-sxfOkXP8/SwxrWZfsj2I/AAAAAAAAD-o/fo3SJRuqSq8/s400/LPD+3.bmp

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4502/pict1419n.jpg

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6161/pict1415.jpg

or maybe RP and RI can share cost to co-produce the LHD currently developed

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2783/4140345313_be60a7b3a5.jpg

TheAvenger

May 25th, 2010, 12:22 PM

Commodore Reef not in Philippines's Archipelagic Baseline Law

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/kerenskyalex/KLsecurityreview.jpg

http://www.klsreview.com/HTML/2009Jan_Jun/20090320_02.html

******************************************************

Actually it is true........ Commodore Reef which is renamed Rizal Reef and occupied by Filipino troops since about the year 1990s, is not included in the Philippine Base Line Law. BUT Commodore Reef / Rizal Reef is inside the UN sponsored 200 miles Exclusive Economic Zones of the Philippines when measured from the coast of Palawan.
And I reckoned Commodore Reef / Rizal Reef is neither inside Sabah's 200 miles EEZ which is the basis of Malaysian claims to some atolls and reefs in the Kalayaan islands group / Spratly Group.

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/kerenskyalex/map1_rpterritory.jpg

Pls see related postings :

Filipino soldiers are currently occupying nine islands and islets in the KIG: Parola, Likas, Rizal, Pag-asa, Rota, Lawak, Patag, Panata, Ayungin and Rizal reefs. All soldiers generally belong to the Navforwest.

http://thepalawantimes.wordpress.com/2009/03/23/no-sino-warship-in-kig/

Should we withdraw our troops from Commodore Reef (new name Rizal Reef) just because the Malaysians was claiming it. ?

http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=22906.0

TheAvenger

May 25th, 2010, 12:26 PM

Location of Commodore Reef - new name Rizal Reef

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/kerenskyalex/KIG-commodore.jpg

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/kerenskyalex/commodore-rizalreef-1.jpg
RIZAL REEF is the new name of COMMODORE REEF

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/kerenskyalex/commodore-rizalreef1-1.jpg
RIZAL REEF is the new name of COMMODORE REEF

TheAvenger

May 25th, 2010, 12:30 PM

OF COURSE COMMODORE REEF AND ALL OTHER ATOLLS, REEFS, AND SHOALS IN OUR KALAYAAN ISLANDS GROUP AND SPRATLY GROUP IS OUTSIDE OF OUR NEW BASELINE LAW - R.A. 9522, Courtesy of GMA and her brainy Senator Miriam Santiago.

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/kerenskyalex/baselinephil.jpg
Philippine Baseline as per R.A. 9522

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/kerenskyalex/KLsecurityreview.jpg

The exact coordinate for Commodore Reef is latitude 8° 22' and longitude 115° 13', while the farthest baseline to west is longitude 116° 53', it therefore doesn’t include Commodore Reef.

sia
http://www.klsreview.com/HTML/2009Jan_Jun/20090320_02.html

The geographical coordinates mentioned by Malaysia's KL Security Review is the Philippine Baseline at Balabac island.

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/kerenskyalex/baseline4-long116-53-1.jpg

Other pages of Philippine Baselines as per R.A. 9522

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/kerenskyalex/baseline1.jpg
Page 1

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/kerenskyalex/baselin2.jpg

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae105/kerenskyalex/baseline3.jpg

The Malaysian respond is not surprising since in the very beginning, Harry Roque, the Magdalo Groups, and the CCP is against the Baseline Law which reduce the Philippine territory and open our 200-miles
Exclusive Economic Zone to further disputes from other claimants like China, Malaysia, and Vietnam.

Roque also said the scope and breadth of the country’s territory predated the UNCLOS. “How dare Mrs. Arroyo give away this territory to the detriment of the Filipino people," he said.

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/154980/void-new-baselines-law-urge-constitutional-law-experts

http://www.pinoypress.net/2009/02/22/arroyos-new-baseline-is-a-sellout-to-china-cpp/

In order to appease China for whatever mysterious reasons, PGMA and her brainy Senator - Miriam Santiago sponsored the R.A. 9522 known as the Philippine Baseline Law. Now Malaysia and other countries like Vietnam and China will just occupy our reefs, atolls, shoals, and islands in the KIG / south china sea, as they knew that the Territorial Baseline of the Philippines is right on the Philippine coast.

http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=22906.0

manila_eye

May 25th, 2010, 02:39 PM

That is some serious issue. We are losing so many islands and reefs because of the baseline law that GMA signed.

mwg12a

May 25th, 2010, 02:56 PM

So far, I think the brand new Polish Sokol helicopters, brand new Italian turbo prop trainer aircrafts and brand new updated version of the s-211 are definitely worthy initial step for the DND to modernize our AFP.

Gawd, I hope they would get more s-211 for trainer atleast rather that that propeller driven SF-260. That latter would just ligitimize the "sorry ass" state of the Philippine DefenSe Force. That upgraded version of s-211 would be nice to have atleast, the M-311.

Mercato

May 25th, 2010, 03:30 PM

What if 1 billion Chinese sign a petition for "South China Sea" lol ?.. :D :D :D :D

but yea, I do understand Avenger's concern. The pattern of Chinese expansionism has always been to invoke historicity ~ genuine or otherwise. For instance, they invoke history when reclaiming Hongkong back in 1999, they are also doing likewise with Taiwan, even if ancient history shows Taiwan was inhabited not by Han Chinese but by Austronesians. Same pattern when they invaded Tibet in 1949 even if the Tibetans do not want to be under the Han Chinese yoke. Again the same pattern when they try to crush freedom of speech and free expression in Xinjiang, ancient land of the Uighurs who are more closely related to the Turkic peoples than to Han Chinese.

gaLj

May 25th, 2010, 06:07 PM

I heard that RP is interested also in evaluating the Makassar Class LPD ?

Endurance (Korea) / Makassar (Singapore) Class

xxxriainxxx

May 26th, 2010, 02:50 PM

Why is Satur Ocampo et al of Bayad Muna este Bayan Muna silent on this?
:bash::bash::bash:

RP rebels use child soldiers—UN
By Veronica Uy
INQUIRER.net
First Posted 09:52:00 05/23/2010

MANILA, Philippines—Three of the country’s rebel groups—Muslim extremist Abu Sayyaf, communist New People’s Army, and secessionist Moro Islamic Liberation Front—are among the world’s “persistent violators of children in armed conflicts,” the United Nations said.

The Philippines’ three insurgent groups are among 16 different armies and insurgent groups around the world that have recruited or used child soldiers for at least the past five years, the annual report of the UN Secretary General’s Special Representative for Children and Armed Conflict said.

Radhika Coomaraswamy, the Special Representative for Children and Armed Conflict, warned that “we still live in a world with those who would use children as spies, soldiers, and human shields.”

“The shifting nature of conflict has put many children on the front lines. Too often children become collateral damage during military operations. Every year the release of this report should give us pause. Let us remember that we must protect the most innocent and most vulnerable,” she added.

The other violators of international laws against the use of child soldiers were identified as Myanmar’s national army Tatmadaw Kyi, and the rebel Karenni Army and Karen National Liberation Army; the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) and the National Liberation Army (ELN);

The national army of the Democratic Republic of Congo known as FARDC and the rebel Congress for the Defense of the People (CNDP); Democratic Forces for the Liberation of Rwanda (FDLR), Nationalist and Integrationalist Front (FNI), the Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA), and various militias that are known as the Mai-Mai;

The pro-government militias in Darfur, Sudan and the southern-based Sudan People’s Liberation Army (SPLA); and Somalia’s Transitional Federal Government (TFG).

The UN report also identified the groups which subjects minors to the most brutal violence, such as killings, maimings, and rapes and other sexual assaults.

At the same time, the report, which has been sent to the UN Security Council, said progress has been made with some groups which have recently signed action plans in which they aim to end the recruitment and use of child soldiers.

The MILF, the SPLA, and the Unified Communist Party of Nepal-Maoist have all signed such plans. Burundi has been removed from the annexes to the report following UN verification that all children associated with the National Liberation Forces (FNL) have been reunited with their families and that the group has ceased recruitment.

However, some groups have been named for the first time as recruiting or using children in armed conflict. These include the Afghan National Police, the rebel Convention of Patriots for Justice and Peace in the Central African Republic (CAR), and Somalia’s Hizbul Islam militia.

Somalia’s Al-Shabaab, an Islamist rebel force, and the TFG both stand accused of killing and maiming children in the Horn of Africa country.

Several groups involved in fighting in the eastern DRC were named as being responsible for rapes and other forms of sexual violence against children. They are the FARDC, LRA, FDLR, the Patriotic Resistance Forces in Ituri district (FRPI), the FNI, and the Mai-Mai.

The report lists several recommendations to the Security Council for consideration, including more vigorous measures against those groups and individuals who persistently commit grave violations against children. The Council will discuss the report at an open debate next month.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/news/breakingnews/view/20100523-271574/RP-rebels-use-child-soldiersUN

Ecija

June 3rd, 2010, 03:43 AM

AFP MODERNIZATION
DND chief sad; midnight shopping spree aborted

By Jocelyn Uy
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 02:35:00 06/03/2010

Filed Under: Military, Government Contracts, Defense

MANILA, Philippines—Defense Secretary Norberto Gonzales is disappointed that he is leaving the Armed Forces of the Philippines with only the purchase of a number of brand-new helicopters from Poland as a done deal.

Gonzales Wednesday told reporters in an interview at Camp Aguinaldo that his seven-month stint at the Department of National Defense (DND) allowed him to merely work out memorandums of understanding with at least five foreign governments for the acquisition of military weapons.

Gonzales disclosed two months ago that he was engaged in talks with the governments of Canada, France, Italy, Israel and South Korea who, he said, were offering the AFP long-range patrol aircraft, among others.

At around that time, presidential candidate Benigno Aquino III warned foreign governments and suppliers against entering into “midnight deals” with President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo’s administration.

He said that if elected, he would scrap these contracts if these were found disadvantageous to the government.

“We have not reached the point of really beginning talks on the acquisition,” Gonzales said after signing a project agreement with Manila Water for water and waste improvement at Libingan ng mga Bayani.

“Unfortunate of me, what I will be leaving behind are memorandums of understanding with these countries,” he said. But he hoped that these memos would pave the way for the acquisition of new hardware for the AFP under the incoming administration.

The defense chief earlier confirmed that he was conducting last-minute groundwork to acquire new weapons under the expiring AFP Modernization Act of 1995, which was enacted to allow the military to modernize in 15 years with a total outlay of P331 billion.

Of that, only P28.9 billion has been allotted under the law, which allows the DND to spend only up to P5 billion per year.

Choppers from Poland

Gonzales Wednesday said that he had already signed the contract papers for the procurement of brand-new helicopters from Poland.

“That’s the only one I signed, which is already for procurement,” he said. “But I did not initiate that… It has been [in the] works for the last two years.”

‘Not crazy’

Gonzales shrugged off allegations of attempts to use up the entire P300-billion modernization fund during his watch as defense chief.

He said it was “impossible” to pull that off. “And we are not crazy to attempt to do so… We simply sought to maximize what we thought was achievable in my seven-month stay in the DND,” he said.

jpdm

June 3rd, 2010, 11:26 AM

^^^^^^

If the Polish helicopters will do well, I hope they will buy more. And buy the choppers with combat capabilities.

Brown Tiger

June 4th, 2010, 06:07 AM

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/sokol.jpg

jpdm

June 4th, 2010, 11:31 AM

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/sokol.jpg

Who buys Polish choppers?

Rundown
Jojo A. Robles
Manila Standard

It may sound like a bad Polish joke, but here it goes: How many Polish helicopters did the Polish government, which up until recently owned chopper manufacturer PZL-Swidnik, buy lately? The answer: None.

Yes, Swidnik (now AugustaWestland Swidnik, after it was purchased by the Anglo-Italian helicopter maker earlier this year), cannot even sell its products —including those that the Philippines intends to buy for its military—to its own government. Instead, the Polish Ministry of Health went to rival multinational manufacturer Eurocopter to purchase 23 choppers for its emergency medical services fleet, the first of which were delivered last year.

The deal to purchase helicopters for the Polish health ministry, by the way, was sealed in 2008, when Swidnik was still a state-owned company. That only means that the Polish government felt the local manufacturer’s helicopters were up to snuff even for emergency medical missions, let alone combat duty for its armed forces.

Now we learn that our Department of National Defense has purchased eight brand-new combat utility helicopters worth P2.8 billion from Swidnik. The first four of these helicopters—probably military versions of company’s PZL W-3A Sokol (“Falcon”) general-purpose chopper —is scheduled to be delivered within a year, according to one DND official.

Apart from the Polish Air Force, only the Czech and the Myanmar air forces are listed the primary users of the Sokol, of which 150 have been built since its introduction in 1985. Fully 80 percent of these helicopters were sold to the Polish government, which now does not even want to buy them anymore.

Published reports say that the DND’s contract to purchase the Sokols was a government-to-government deal with Poland and part of the 15-year, P300-billion armed forces modernization program that is about to end. The Sokols are intended to replace the venerable and accident-prone hand-me-down UH-1H Huey choppers that the Philippine Air Force has been using for nearly half a century now.

Earlier, the DND said it rejected plans to purchase reconditioned AH-1H Cobra attack helicopters from Israel, after the air force supposedly rejected that proposal. The Sokols, according to Defense Undersecretary Antonio Romero, met PAF’s requirements, particularly on lifting payload.

But because the deal to purchase the Polish aircraft was done government-to-government, supposedly to avoid allegations of corruption, no competitive bidding was held, our sources say. This meant that the DND and the Air Force were unable to choose from other helicopters available from other manufacturers.

In addition, these sources say that the purchase of Swidnik by its much-bigger competitor AugustaWestland bodes ill for the few countries that use Sokols in their armed forces. This is because Augusta will most likely shut down production of Sokols and other Swidnik craft, since these compete directly with their own products.

This is, our sources explain, is especially true for the Sokol, which is in direct competition with the popular Augusta A159 and A139 models. “What kind of support will PAF receive when the assembly lines of this helicopter are shut down?” said one. “Augusta’s purchase of Swidnik only means that Augusta intends to use Swidnik’s facilities to manufacture engines and other parts for its own line of helicopters and to kill a small competitor.”

All aircraft operators are aware that operation costs are more important in the long run than acquisition costs. Due to its old technology and dubious parts and support, the Sokol will cost more than more expensive new-generation helicopters by far.

Besides, aircraft industry experts say that aircraft manufacturers from the former communist bloc have very poor reputation as far as after-sales support is concerned. The lack of available spare parts and costly repairs will entail the regular grounding of fleets that use them, making them virtually useless.

Also, these sources add, the Sokol has a reputation of being grossly underpowered when compared with new-technology helicopters of same class. The aforementioned Augusta A159, for instance, with a maximum take-off weight of 6,000 kg, has a take-off power of 2,030 kw, whereas the Sokol with its 6,400 kg take-off weight has only has 1,340 kw power.

And so, while the DND did choose one of the cheapest military helicopters in the market in the Sokol, there is actually no assurance that these choppers will be in service for a long time, because they will soon be out of production. And instead of modernizing the Philippine military, the purchase of these Polish helicopters may be a waste of scarce funds intended to upgrade our fighting capabilities.

Indeed, while the focus has been on why the DND has been making big-ticket purchases only now, at the eve of the departure of the Arroyo administration, there has been little regard for the actual aircraft that the Philippines intends to buy. But any investigation of these so-called “midnight” purchases being made by the DND must also consider the type of equipment that is being bought.

The military’s record of purchasing equipment, after all, has been marred by allegations of corruption for decades. That is why our fighting men end up with bullet-proof vests and helmets that fail to stop even the lowest-caliber bullets while their logistics officers become unexplained billionaires overnight.

Brown Tiger

June 4th, 2010, 01:51 PM

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/helicop-falcon.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/helicop-panel.jpg

" Not So Bad Air Assets... Its Better to Have than Nothing "

Arvor

June 4th, 2010, 05:25 PM

I think that the main criteria used to justify these helicopters is price and to get as many helicopters as possible for less regardless of quality, the Poles are buying Eurocopter and other types because they want to improve their military hardware quality to Nato and western European standards, these helicopters are ok if the rationale is better than nothing given the price tag of brand new high tech helicopters.

Of that, only P28.9 billion has been allotted under the law, which allows the DND to spend only up to P5 billion per year.

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http://www.eurocopter.com/publications/img_wsw//WebNH90Gamstat.jpg
http://www.eurocopter.com/publications/img_wsw//NH_ramp.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_erq5Z9l-0CA/R9C2JH-nrbI/AAAAAAAANFE/ZOgjr27hY40/s512/nh90pt1b_z.jpg

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If money was less of an issue my first choice would be the NH90 as a replacement for the Hueys but at a cost of 16 million euros per copy or 900 or so million peso, the NH90 is also the new standard nato naval frigate helicopter so its perfect for creating synergy between the forces making it easy for common training and maintenance + its got a handy rear door and light vehicle transport capability ( should get around 80 ).

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http://www.intell.rtaf.mi.th/intellUserFiles/image/News/EC645_05.jpg
http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/uh/uh72/uh72-3.jpg

Eurocopter UH 72 Lakota 5 million $ +- to replace the MD500 and the BO 105 of the navy in the Utility, light attack/recon, SAR and medivac role, as mentioned the navy actually uses a predecessor of this design in the form of the BO 105 Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm or MBB before the company became part of Eurocopter hence the similarity of the MBB 105 and the UH 72/EC145, the US army has currently 400 or so on order ( should get around 60~80 ) .

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30 mm ( warning graphic scenes ! )

http://www.buzzen.com/files/pictures/img_169513_1_40.jpg

And the Tiger attack helicopter for the attack role at around 40 million $ a piece, but the pricetag is worth it given the tremendous capabilities that would be acquired a couple of these could basically wipe out a hostile invasion men, tanks and even challenge aircraft, anything ..., or kill insurgent rebels even in thick jungle cover night or day thanks to infrafred vision and its 30 mm canon which can hit its targets 1 km away with exacting precision and a lethal radius of 30 metres around the shell impact, meaning that theres basically no contest and nowhere to hide as an insurgent you either surrender the moment you see one of these or just shoot yourself . ( around 30-40 ) .

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http://www.guncopter.com/images/ch-53e-takeoff.jpg

A few CH 53 for heavy lift ( about 20 ) .

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http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/helicopters/size/mi26_01.jpg

Topping it off with say half a dozen MI 26 for extreme heavy lift .

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http://www.strategycenter.net/imgLib/20080120_09.jpg

But if it has to be cheap and from the former Soviet block might aswell get the MI 17