Philippine Defense Forces [Archive] - Page 19

william :D

July 6th, 2010, 01:59 PM

ARMED FORCES OF THE PHILIPPINES
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af8/williamroi/safe_imagephp-2.pngThe Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) (Filipino: Sandatahang Lakas ng Pilipinas) is composed of the Philippine Army, Philippine Navy and Philippine Air Force. The AFP is a volunteer force and has a total active strength of 113,500 with 131,000 personnel in reserve. The AFP leadership consists of the Chief of Staff (Gen. Ricardo David ), Vice Chief of Staff (Vacant), and Deputy Chief of Staff (Vacant).

History
The official birth of the Armed Forces of the Philippines took place with the passage of the National Defense Act, Commonwealth Act No. 1, on December 21, 1935. However, the origin of the organization can be traced back to the establishment of the Philippine Constabulary, armed Filipino forces organized in 1901 by the United States to combat the Philippine Revolutionary Forces then led by Gen. Emilio Aguinaldo.

Philippine–American War
Initially, after declaring independence in 1898, the Philippine government took on a dictatorial form. This was replaced by a revolutionary government headed by Emilio Aguinaldo as president on June 23, 1898. The First Philippine Republic was formally established with the proclamation of the Malolos Constitution on January 23, 1899. When it became apparent that the United States had no intention of recognizing the newly-establish Republic, the Philippine–American War erupted with a declaration of war by the Philippines on the United States. The Philippine Revolutionary Forces, which lacked sufficient armor and ammunition, lost many battles. By 1901, the Filipinos had completely lost the war.

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af8/williamroi/safe_imagephp-1.pngThe Philippine Navy (PN) is the naval arm of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP). Its official name in Filipino is Hukbong Dagat ng Pilipinas, literally, "Sea Force of the Philippines".

Philippine Navy ships are prefixed "BRP" (Barko ng Republika ng Pilipinas[2] or Bapor ng Republika ng Pilipinas; in English, "Ship of the Republic of the Philippines.")[3]

On May 15, 2010, Vice Admiral Ferdinand Golez retired as Flag Officer-in-Command (FOIC) of the Philippine Navy, and passed-on the command to Rear Admiral Danilo M. Cortez as acting Flag Officer-in-Command.

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af8/williamroi/safe_imagephp1.pngThe Philippine Air Force (PAF) is the air force of the Republic of the Philippines, and one of the three main services of the Armed Forces of the Philippines. Its official name in Filipino is Hukbong Himpapawid ng Pilipinas. In January 9, 2009, Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo appointed Maj. Gen. Oscar Rabena as the 31st commanding general replacing Lt. Gen. Pedrito Cadungog. The change of command ceremony was held on January 11, 2009.

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af8/williamroi/safe_imagephp.gifThe Philippine Army (PA) is the ground arm of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP). Its official name in Filipino is Hukbong Katihan ng Pilipinas. As of 2008, General Hermogenes Esperon Jr. served as Chief of Staff of the AFP. Lieutenant General Victor Ibrado replaced Lieutenant General Alexander Yano, former Commanding General of the Philippine Army, who took over from Hermogenes Esperon on May 12, 2008. Ibrado is the former chief of the Armed Forces Central Command (Centcom), Visayas. On April 30, 2009 President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo appointed Lt. Gen. Delfin N. Bangit as the new commanding general to succeed Lt. Gen. Victor Ibrado who became the 39th Chief of Staff of Armed Forces.
http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af8/williamroi/n29161805409_1118391_3034.jpg

links:
philippine army (http://www.facebook.com/search/?post_form_id=1309cd4466f23d000e4797db8ca698e2&q=philippine%20%20defense&init=quick&ref=search_loaded#!/pages/Philippine-Army/105925406105728?ref=ts)
philippine air force (http://www.facebook.com/search/?post_form_id=1309cd4466f23d000e4797db8ca698e2&q=philippine%20%20defense&init=quick&ref=search_loaded#!/pages/Philippine-Air-Force/112308268784903?ref=ts)
philippine navy (http://www.facebook.com/index.php?lh=9a357e0a7d704245f65e2df6779a5455&eu=v4-uFAYEJhNe7MnbZTRCLA#!/pages/Philippine-Navy/105625212803368?ref=ts)
armed forces of the philippines (http://www.facebook.com/index.php?lh=9a357e0a7d704245f65e2df6779a5455&eu=v4-uFAYEJhNe7MnbZTRCLA#!/pages/Armed-Forces-of-the-Philippines/111440715551567?v=wiki&ref=ts)

william :D

July 6th, 2010, 02:22 PM

source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_Forces_of_the_Philippines)

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af8/williamroi/n29161805409_1118391_3034.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af8/williamroi/400px-Armymil-2008-02-21-124604.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af8/williamroi/800px-090414-M-4689B-001.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af8/williamroi/800px-100204-N-1008D-062.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af8/williamroi/800px-100204-N-3879W-023.jpg

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af8/williamroi/Endxj.jpg

"ZukiChirO"

July 6th, 2010, 06:03 PM

Posted on 10:16 PM, July 05, 2010

Air Force upgrade bill to require P7 billion

THE GOVERNMENT will spend around P7 billion on aircraft and surveillance systems to guard the sprawling archipelago and help fight Moro separatists and Maoist rebels, a senior general said yesterday.

Lt. Gen. Oscar H. Rabena said the Air Force will acquire 15 combat utility and night-capable helicopters, 10 refurbished UH-1H helicopters, a long-range maritime patrol plane, a refurbished C-130 transport, basic trainer jets and long-range radar systems.

"We have the plans in place for transition from internal security to territorial defense," Mr. Rabena told reporters at Villamor Air Base in Pasay City, where a ceremony was held for the 63rd anniversary of the Air Force.

He said eight combat utility helicopters from Polish company PZL Swidnik, a unit of Anglo-Italian helicopter company Agusta Westland, will be delivered next year. "Given the size of our fleet, our wings, and by extension our speed of operations, are admittedly limited," Mr. Rabena said, but noted that the Air Force is managing with available assets.

For his part, Air Force spokesman Lt. Col. Miguel Ernesto G. Okol said: "The Air Force wants to concentrate on certain key areas, such as territorial defense, but it could not allocate enough resources such as aircraft for it because of the more pressing need in internal security missions, such as fighting with insurgents."

He added that despite the shortage in air assets, the group has responded well in relief efforts during typhoons.

At the ceremony, President Benigno Simeon C. Aquino III, the military’s commander-in-chief, reiterated his commitment to provide the troops, weapons and equipment needed to end insurgencies and protect the country’s territorial integrity.

"I will not make false promises to you or tell you things simply for the sake of making positive headlines," Mr. Aquino said, adding a secure and stable country was needed to attract investment that could create jobs.

"That’s why they’re called investments," Mr. Aquino later told reporters of the new equipment, adding the Defense department was studying schemes to raise funds outside the annual budget.

"There are creative schemes that will not make the government lose its assets but will be in a position, like a lease, that we can enter into and then fund what we need."

Defense Secretary Voltaire T. Gazmin told Reuters he had asked the military to make an inventory of available assets, including land that could be leased on a long-term to property developers.

"We have many camps within the capital region that can be leased for a minimum of 50 years. These are prime property that can generate billions of pesos and finance our modernisation program." -- Reuters with an input from NRM
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juniordiscovery

July 6th, 2010, 07:54 PM

Aquino orders review of RP defense

ANILA, Philippines—President Benigno Aquino III Monday announced he had ordered a “comprehensive review” of the country’s defense system as part of his bigger objective of modernizing the Armed Forces of the Philippines within the next six years.

“My fundamental philosophy is there cannot be right solutions without the corresponding correct identification of the problems,” he said in his speech on the 63rd anniversary of the Philippine Air Force (PAF) in Pasay City.

Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin “is undertaking, at my direction, a comprehensive review of the many aspects of our national defense with this orientation in mind,” Mr. Aquino said.

“I want you to know that if my expectations of you are high, it is because I know that our people’s expectations of all of us are the highest. I will not make false promises to you or tell you things simply for the sake of making positive headlines.”

The bond between the Commander in Chief
and his troops got a symbolic display when it rained during the parade at 10:13 a.m.

Mr. Aquino was about to alight from the “white carabao” (military parade jeep) following the customary troop inspection when it suddenly rained. But protocol dictated that the President remain in position—like the rest of the soldiers in formation—until the rite was over.

source: inquirer.net

juniordiscovery

July 6th, 2010, 07:54 PM

FlashCollider

July 6th, 2010, 10:57 PM

I just hope that he will deliver. Our AFP is in need of modernizing and I also hope that they will include increasing the benefits of our soldier which includes comprehensive health care and education.

Mabuhay ang Sandatahang Lakas ng Pilipinas(Hukbong Dagat, Hukbong Himpapawid, Hukbong Katihan).

Ady001

July 7th, 2010, 02:40 AM

^^ We need transparency in the procurement of new equipment.

Arvor

July 7th, 2010, 02:53 AM

There is a point when "transparency" in procurement would still not get the afp the modern tools it requires, its budget is currently simply too small to procure modern equipment in a short period of time for all branches especially given the task of defending a country of the Phillipines size and archipelagic nature .

At a minimum the budget would need to be raised x3 just to get a minimal capability, the US for example spends the equivalent of the entire Phillipine military budget in its operations in Afghanistan alone in just one week, theres only so much you can do with 1,5 billion $ a year or 0,8% of gdp divided between the navy, army, air force .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

A modern fighter cost around 30 million to procure then you need spare parts you need to keep up the pilots training and flying hours and all the other stuff that goes with maintaining a modern fighter craft which cost money .

Each branch should at least get 1,5 billion $ and increase spending to around 2-3% of gdp .

Ady001

July 7th, 2010, 03:26 AM

^^ Again, we do not use tools to wage war against a country. We use it for self-defense, natural calamities and military posturing :lol:.

But yeah, we need to spend something to the military for shock value. It's just that we need transparency to ensure every sentimo is spent right :D

Manila-X

July 7th, 2010, 05:13 AM

EDITORIAL - Credible defense
(The Philippine Star) Updated July 07, 2010 12:00 AM

He won’t make false promises, new commander-in-chief Benigno Aquino III told the troops the other day as the Philippine Air Force celebrated its anniversary. He issued the statement as PAF officers expressed hopes that the new administration would give priority to the modernization of the Armed Forces of the Philippines. The need to modernize is most glaring in the PAF, which is often described in jest as all air and no force.

That situation would be laughable if it did not put public safety and national security at risk. The lack of a credible air defense capability means the Philippine military cannot effectively patrol the country’s territory and deter intruders, including poachers and foreign forces building structures on Philippine-claimed areas in the South China Sea. The weak air capability also puts the nation at the mercy of other countries that offer emergency assistance during times of natural disasters – and there are many such catastrophes throughout a typical year, from torrential floods to landslides, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

Other sectors are in dire need of additional funds, including public education and health services. But defense requirements cannot be given low priority. Military capability is needed not just for fighting insurgents and terrorists but also for rescue and relief efforts. Credible defense also involves providing the people who lay their lives on the line for the country with the necessary equipment to perform their tasks effectively. The AFP lacks not only aircraft but also patrol boats, surveillance equipment, emergency medical kits and even sturdy boots for its personnel.

At his inaugural, President Aquino acknowledged the sacrifices made by the men and women in the AFP as well as the Philippine National Police, and vowed to hire more military and police personnel to match the boom in the country’s population. It is not right, he said, that those who watch over the people are neglected. The nation cannot afford state-of-the-art fighter jets or aircraft carriers, but the government can at least see to it that the PAF has sufficient airworthy craft to perform its many tasks effectively. The same goes for the other military service commands. Credible defense capability is a reasonable goal.

april boy

July 7th, 2010, 05:34 AM

april boy

July 7th, 2010, 05:35 AM

Posted on 10:16 PM, July 05, 2010

Lt. Gen. Oscar H. Rabena said the [B]Air Force will acquire 15 combat utility and night-capable helicopters, 10 refurbished UH-1H helicopters, a long-range maritime patrol plane, a refurbished C-130 transport, basic trainer jets and long-range radar systems.

He said eight combat utility helicopters from Polish company PZL Swidnik, a unit of Anglo-Italian helicopter company Agusta Westland, will be delivered next year. "Given the size of our fleet, our wings, and by extension our speed of operations, are admittedly limited," Mr. Rabena said, but noted that the Air Force is managing with available assets.

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For starters these are ok...

Nanflexal

July 7th, 2010, 05:48 AM

maraming warship din na gawa sa saudi (if im not mistaken) na mora at missile capable.

Arvor

July 7th, 2010, 03:30 PM

We use it for self-defense

Well i am talking about self defense our current military and its budget is not capable of defending the country ... .

Manila-X

July 8th, 2010, 06:02 AM

Well i am talking about self defense our current military and its budget is not capable of defending the country ... .

For now, The Philippines is not facing any external threats and if it does it can get US aid. The country can call The US Air Force for defense similar to a policy with that of New Zealand.

But the country still needs to modernize its armed forces so it would need America's aid and can do it on their own.

TheAvenger

July 8th, 2010, 01:40 PM

For now, The Philippines is not facing any external threats and if it does it can get US aid. The country can call The US Air Force for defense similar to a policy with that of New Zealand.

But the country still needs to modernize its armed forces so it would need America's aid and can do it on their own.

We cannot always rely on the U.S., they have their own self-interest and national interest to take into account before they help the Philippines in any external threats. Beside the Mutual Defense Treaty with the U.S. have a vague terms that defends on the U.S. Congress to interpret.

Mutual Defense Treaty Between the United States and the Republic of the Philippines; August 30, 1951

ARTICLE III
The Parties, through their Foreign Ministers or their deputies, will consult together from time to time regarding the implementation of this Treaty and whenever in the opinion of either of them the territorial integrity, political independence or security of either of the Parties is threatened by external armed attack in the Pacific.

ARTICLE IV
Each Party recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific Area on either of the Parties would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common dangers in accordance with its constitutional processes.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall be immediately reported to the Security Council of the United Nations. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/phil001.asp

So any attack from China or Taiwan, the U.S. may not help the Phillipines.

japimil-noypi

July 8th, 2010, 01:42 PM

For now, The Philippines is not facing any external threats and if it does it can get US aid. The country can call The US Air Force for defense similar to a policy with that of New Zealand.

But the country still needs to modernize its armed forces so it would need America's aid and can do it on their own.

^^
We are encircled by possible enemies.
Malaysia(Mindanao),
Vietnam,China,Taiwan (Spratley islands, Palawan)
Taiwan,China(Batanes islands)

TheAvenger

July 8th, 2010, 02:01 PM

Spratly Islands and Scarborough Reef

America's commitment to defend Philippine forces in the South China Sea is more problematic. Previously, the US had tiptoed around the geographic definitions in the 1951 mutual defense treaty with the Philippines, which included the provision that

"Each Party recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific Area on either of the Parties would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common dangers in accordance with its constitutional processes. ... [A]n armed attack on either of the Parties is deemed to include an attack on the metropolitan territory of either of the Parties, or on the island territories under its jurisdiction in the Pacific or on its armed forces, public vessels or aircraft in the Pacific."[5]
The term, Pacific Area, was left ambiguous in the defense treaty. Washington had interpreted the treaty as applying to the territory of the Philippines at the time the treaty was signed, which would exclude Scarborough Reef and all of the Spratly Islands.[6] The Philippines did not lodge its claim to most of the Spratly Islands until a 1978 Presidential Decree. Manila's claim to Scarborough Reef was not generally known before 1997. During US Defense Secretary Cohen's July 1998 visit to Manila, Foreign Affairs Secretary Saizon sought clarification and reportedly was told that the South China Sea was included.[7] It is not clear that the US has changed its interpretation of the 1951 treaty, but a joint Philippine-US live-fire exercise near Scarborough Reef during August 1998 adds to the confusion.[8]

Pls read further on below web link :

http://www.boundaries.com/US-Asia.htm

TheAvenger

July 8th, 2010, 02:03 PM

We have to modernize our Armed Forces since we cannot always rely
on the Americans.

---------------------------------------------------
Spratly Islands and Scarborough Reef

America's commitment to defend Philippine forces in the South China Sea is more problematic. Previously, the US had tiptoed around the geographic definitions in the 1951 mutual defense treaty with the Philippines, which included the provision that

"Each Party recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific Area on either of the Parties would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common dangers in accordance with its constitutional processes. ... [A]n armed attack on either of the Parties is deemed to include an attack on the metropolitan territory of either of the Parties, or on the island territories under its jurisdiction in the Pacific or on its armed forces, public vessels or aircraft in the Pacific."[5]
The term, Pacific Area, was left ambiguous in the defense treaty. Washington had interpreted the treaty as applying to the territory of the Philippines at the time the treaty was signed, which would exclude Scarborough Reef and all of the Spratly Islands.[6] The Philippines did not lodge its claim to most of the Spratly Islands until a 1978 Presidential Decree. Manila's claim to Scarborough Reef was not generally known before 1997. During US Defense Secretary Cohen's July 1998 visit to Manila, Foreign Affairs Secretary Saizon sought clarification and reportedly was told that the South China Sea was included.[7] It is not clear that the US has changed its interpretation of the 1951 treaty, but a joint Philippine-US live-fire exercise near Scarborough Reef during August 1998 adds to the confusion.[8]

Pls read further on below web link :

http://www.boundaries.com/US-Asia.htm

Kintoy

July 8th, 2010, 02:07 PM

pag sa US ka aasa, may strings attached palagi. sa iba na lang bumili, mura pa at wala pang makikialam sa gobierno

Arvor

July 8th, 2010, 02:36 PM

For now, The Philippines is not facing any external threats and if it does it can get US aid. The country can call The US Air Force for defense similar to a policy with that of New Zealand.

Well ive made the same arguments before that the only thing preventing our neighbours from taking overtly and direct hostile action in any large way against us is due to the fear of what the US would do given not just the treaty but sheer historical links .

But unlike New Zealand we are not as well endowed with geopolitical isolation, New Zealand can do without air force jets which theyve retired because there simply are no threats in the south Pacific, their closest neighbours are the French and Australians fellow western democracies of course the French blew up New Zealand based greenpeace ships protesting their nuclear tests in the Pacific but that was 30 years ago .

----

As noypi wrote we are encircled by potential enemies altho id leave Vietnam out of that they are probably our best potential allies in the South China sea with which we can certainly share a small part of the Spratleys with them, while both countries should ally and work togheter to defend and limit other powers presence in the middle section of the sea .

I think that this is actually already the case :

Ever since the end of the Cold War relations between the Philippines and Vietnam has warmed rapidly. Today the Philippines and Vietnam are economic allies and have a free trade deal with each other. Both nations are a part of Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) and Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC). The Philippines and Vietnam have conducted joint military exercises together in the South China Sea and are trying to find ways to turn the Spratly Islands from an area of conflict to an area of cooperation. Vietnam is also sometimes called the only communist military ally of the Philippines. The Philippines and Vietnam are also monitoring China's expansion into the South China Sea making sure that China is no threat to either Philippine or Vietnamese islands in the South China Sea. The Philippines has also accepted Immigrants and workers from Vietnam to come into the Philippines to live and work. The Philippines also imports a large amount of writing material, clothes and other products from Vietnam. On May 2009, The Philippines has inked an agreement with Vietnam to cooperate in the fight against crimes and ensuring social order.[37] On January 2010, the Philippine Stock Exchange (PSE) has signed a memorandum of understanding with the Vietnam bourse “for mutual collaboration and communication of information and experience” to facilitate the development and efficient operations of both securities markets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_the_Philippines#Vietnam

The fact remains tho that the budget of 1,4 billion$ 0.8% of gdp is too small to expect all 3 branches to share those limited funds and be able to carry out the task of defending an archipelago nation with vast territorial airspace & waters and widely scattered lands, each branch should at least have 1.4 billion$ raising it to 2.4% of gdp which is still quite a modest rate of spending .

The Americans will defend us of course no matter what due to our past historical and present links aswell as having a huge FilAm minority which could influence public opinion in that country, but most importantly simply due to Americas desire to continue being the dominant power in East Asia.

Failing to respond to a serious attack against the Phillipines will seriously damage their credibility, but this would not mean that the Americans will fight our local geopolitical battles for us or our territorial claims in any meaningful way nor defend against small skirmishes and incursions by our neighbours with which we will still be on our own .

Kintoy

July 8th, 2010, 04:08 PM

Igsuonnimo

July 8th, 2010, 05:31 PM

For now, The Philippines is not facing any external threats and if it does it can get US aid. The country can call The US Air Force for defense similar to a policy with that of New Zealand.

But the country still needs to modernize its armed forces so it would need America's aid and can do it on their own.

^^
We are encircled by possible enemies.
Malaysia(Mindanao),
Vietnam,China,Taiwan (Spratley islands, Palawan)
Taiwan,China(Batanes islands)

Hindi na uso ngayon ang territorial incursion.

Turuan mo lang mag-Tagalog ang mga yan, magkakaunawaan na tayo.
Eh din mas maganda magturuan tayo ng kanya kanyang mga lengguwahe.

gaLj

July 8th, 2010, 06:37 PM

^
Anong ipapadala natin sa War Games ? BRP Rajah Humabon or yung mga corvette class warships ?

TheAvenger

July 8th, 2010, 10:19 PM

By MARK THOMPSON / WASHINGTON Mark Thompson / Washington – 1 hr 11 mins ago

If China's satellites and spies were working properly, there would have been a flood of unsettling intelligence flowing into the Beijing headquarters of the Chinese navy last week. A new class of U.S. superweapon had suddenly surfaced nearby. It was an Ohio-class submarine, which for decades carried only nuclear missiles targeted against the Soviet Union, and then Russia. But this one was different: for nearly three years, the U.S. Navy has been dispatching modified "boomers" to who knows where (they do travel underwater, after all). Four of the 18 ballistic-missile subs no longer carry nuclear-tipped Trident missiles. Instead, they hold up to 154 Tomahawk cruise missiles each, capable of hitting anything within 1,000 miles with non-nuclear warheads.

Their capability makes watching these particular submarines especially interesting. The 14 Trident-carrying subs are useful in the unlikely event of a nuclear Armageddon, and Russia remains their prime target. But the Tomahawk-outfitted quartet carries a weapon that the U.S. military has used repeatedly against targets in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Iraq and Sudan. (See pictures of the U.S. military in the Pacific.)

That's why alarm bells would have sounded in Beijing on June 28 when the Tomahawk-laden 560-ft. U.S.S. Ohio popped up in the Philippines' Subic Bay. More alarms were likely sounded when the U.S.S. Michigan arrived in Pusan, South Korea, on the same day. And the Klaxons would have maxed out as the U.S.S. Florida surfaced, also on the same day, at the joint U.S.-British naval base on Diego Garcia, a flyspeck of an island in the Indian Ocean. In all, the Chinese military awoke to find as many as 462 new Tomahawks deployed by the U.S. in its neighborhood. "There's been a decision to bolster our forces in the Pacific," says Bonnie Glaser, a China expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. "There is no doubt that China will stand up and take notice."

U.S. officials deny that any message is being directed at Beijing, saying the Tomahawk triple play was a coincidence. But they did make sure that news of the deployments appeared in the Hong Kong–based South China Morning Post - on July 4, no less. The Chinese took notice quietly. "At present, common aspirations of countries in the Asian and Pacific regions are seeking for peace, stability and regional security," Wang Baodong, spokesman for the Chinese embassy in Washington, said on Wednesday. "We hope the relevant U.S. military activities will serve for the regional peace, stability and security, and not the contrary." (See pictures of the most expensive military planes.)

Last month, the Navy announced that all four of the Tomahawk-carrying subs were operationally deployed away from their home ports for the first time. Each vessel packs "the firepower of multiple surface ships," says Captain Tracy Howard of Submarine Squadron 16 in Kings Bay, Ga., and can "respond to diverse threats on short notice."

The move forms part of a policy by the U.S. government to shift firepower from the Atlantic to the Pacific theater, which Washington sees as the military focus of the 21st century. Reduced tensions since the end of the Cold War have seen the U.S. scale back its deployment of nuclear weapons, allowing the Navy to reduce its Trident fleet from 18 to 14. (Why 14 subs, as well as bombers and land-based missiles carrying nuclear weapons, are still required to deal with the Russian threat is a topic for another day.) (See "Obama Shelves U.S. Missile Shield: The Winners and Losers.")

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599200237800

tunay na kaya ito ? or baka pautot lang

TheAvenger

July 8th, 2010, 10:25 PM

Hindi na uso ngayon ang territorial incursion.

Turuan mo lang mag-Tagalog ang mga yan, magkakaunawaan na tayo.
Eh din mas maganda magturuan tayo ng kanya kanyang mga lengguwahe.

Watch out for China's creeping invasion........

and the buying of our national leaders before China commenced their

two-pronged main attack.

One for Batanes and one for Kalayaan island in the South China Sea.

Manila-X

July 9th, 2010, 04:09 AM

Watch out for China's creeping invasion........

and the buying of our national leaders before China commenced their

two-pronged main attack.

One for Batanes and one for Kalayaan island in the South China Sea.

The Philippines has friendly diplomatic relations with China, Malaysia and Vietnam so they are not considered external threats.

On the other hand there have been small conflicts between China and The Philippines concerning The Spratlys but are solved peacefully and with diplomacy.

China knows that The Philippines have a weak armed force but is not stupid enough to even think of launching an invasion.

It would be hard to invade The Philippines dues to the large number of islands.

Manila-X

July 9th, 2010, 04:16 AM

But I'm still for the modernization of the armed forces in all three branches and this start from eradicating corruption through Noynoy and posting discipline and a strong chain of command to the president.

Some equipments The Philippine armed forces should get

Army - main battle tanks
Navy - destroyers
Airforce - fighter planes, night attack helicopters

Manila-X

July 9th, 2010, 04:22 AM

TheAvenger

July 9th, 2010, 04:26 PM

The Philippines has friendly diplomatic relations with China, Malaysia and Vietnam so they are not considered external threats.

On the other hand there have been small conflicts between China and The Philippines concerning The Spratlys but are solved peacefully and with diplomacy.

China knows that The Philippines have a weak armed force but is not stupid enough to even think of launching an invasion.

It would be hard to invade The Philippines dues to the large number of islands.

Yes the Philippines and those government officials has friendly diplomatic relations with China ............ that is on the surface.

You cannot be sure what those slanted-eyes dragon is thinking....... so please don't give us disinformation and false security.

Are you joking. How can you say it is hard to invade the Philippines..........
the Japanese invaded the Philippines before.

Brown Tiger

July 9th, 2010, 04:42 PM

BTW, if there is one plane I would recommend for PAF to consider purchasing would be The Jas Gripen

The current users would be Sweden, Czech Republic, Hungary and South Africa

http://www.x-plane.org/home/urf/aviation/img/saab/gripen/gall98/gripen-g34-70.jpg

http://www.gunnesboskolan.lund.se/nyasidan/tidigare/itis7ab/markusm/JAS.JPG

VERRY EXPENSIVEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

1 UNIT OF GRIPEN JET COST US$ 40-60M
1 UNIT OF F-16 FALCON COST US$ 27M (2005)
1 UNIT OF F-18 HORNET COST US$ 60M

1 UNIT OF MIG-29 COST US$ 29M
1 UNIT OF SU-27/29/30/31 COST US$ 30M

1 UNIT OF KFIR JET US$ 4.5M

1 UNIT OF MIRAGE JET US$ 23M

gaLj

July 9th, 2010, 07:18 PM

VERRY EXPENSIVEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

1 UNIT OF GRIPEN JET COST US$ 40-60M
1 UNIT OF F-16 FALCON COST US$ 27M (2005)
1 UNIT OF F-18 HORNET COST US$ 60M

1 UNIT OF MIG-29 COST US$ 29M
1 UNIT OF SU-27/29/30/31 COST US$ 30M

1 UNIT OF KFIR JET US$ 4.5M

1 UNIT OF MIRAGE JET US$ 23M

Sukhoi 27/30 with modern avionics will kick the hell out of the Gripens

Arvor

July 10th, 2010, 02:31 AM

Brown Tiger

July 10th, 2010, 03:06 AM

The Gripen is the best aircraft for the country given all the alternatives taking initial costs, life cycle costs, capability into consideration, the Gripens basically the true successor of the F16 given the JSF's spiraling cost and complexity defeating the point of the F16 in the first place .

The Gripen is very versatile, reliable and cost effective for the capability it offers, alot of the other planes cost alot to maintain or are basically 40-50 yr old designs and otherwise unsuitable for the countries air force infrastructure ..., not to mention that its an aircraft that is still made by our overall western allies if not by the US this should allow us some autonomy from the Americans while still having the state of the art tech that is compatible with NATO and East Asian US allies like S.Korea and Japan ..., buying Soviet era or derived aircraft is not a good idea .

Btw Thailand has bought 6 Gripens so far with an option for another 6, it was a wasted opportunity to pool a fighter buy as both countries probably could have bargained for a good price .

The navy tho should develop its own small fleet of naval aviation force fighters which should be the Rafale .

I dont agree much with regards battle tanks tho its not neccessary until the country is capable of building a large modern ground force which can be deployed overseas in coalition warfare, to begin with we need to develop small teams with portable antiair and tank missile systems which are quite cheap but effective, an anti tank or aircraft missile costing a few thousand $ if properly used could knock out a main battle tank or helicopters costing hundreds of thousands or millions of $ ... .

I Agree, Gripens are more reliable and sophisticated than F-16's and better even than UK's Tornado GR4 (Defense/Interceptor Jet) which cost roughly not well over US$ 60M.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/grip.jpg

SPECIFICATIONS

* Crew: 1 (2 for JAS 39B/D)
* Length: 14.1 m (46 ft 3 in)
* Wingspan: 8.4 m (27 ft 7 in)
* Height: 4.5 m (14 ft 9 in)
* Wing area: 30.0 m² (323 ft²)
* Empty weight: 5,700 kg (12,600 lb)
* Loaded weight: 8,500 kg (18,700 lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 14,000 kg (31,000 lb)
* Powerplant: 1× Volvo Aero RM12 afterburning turbofan
o Dry thrust: 54 kN (12,100 lbf)
o Thrust with afterburner: 80.5 kN (18,100 lbf)
* Wheel track: 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in)
* Length (two-seater): 14.8 m (48 ft 5 in)

Performance

* Maximum speed:
o At altitude: Mach 2 (2,470 km/h, 1,372 mph)
* Combat radius: 800 km (500 mi, 432 nmi)
* Ferry range: 3,200 km (2,000 mi) with drop tanks
* Service ceiling: 15,240 m (50,000 ft)
* Wing loading: 336 kg/m² (68.8 lb/ft²)
* Thrust/weight: 0.97

Armament

* 1× 27 mm Mauser BK-27 cannon 120 rounds
* 6× Rb.74 (AIM-9) or Rb 98 (IRIS-T)
* 4× Rb.99 (AIM-120) or MICA
* 4× Rb.71 (Skyflash) or Meteor
* 4× Rb.75
* 2× KEPD.350
* 4× GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bomb
* 4× rocket pods 13.5 cm rockets
* 2× Rbs.15F anti-ship missile
* 2× Bk.90 cluster bomb
* 8× Mark 82 bombs
* 1× ALQ-TLS ECM pod

april boy

July 10th, 2010, 04:22 AM

pag sa US ka aasa, may strings attached palagi. sa iba na lang bumili, mura pa at wala pang makikialam sa gobierno

Agree with this!:)

april boy

July 10th, 2010, 04:26 AM

When I was still a lurker, I saw the posts re: affordable light attack aircrafts like the newer version of the S-211 and the versions from Romania and Russia.

That would be enough I think for the meantime.

OtAkAw

July 10th, 2010, 04:48 AM

Some people might think I'm a lunatic but I wish there will come a time when National Defense expenditure would no longer be needed. No more arms, no more weapons, no more flying things that drop bombs, no more missiles, you know, that sort of thing.

But the innate violence of human beings a truth that is difficult to deny. It's a very sad thing.

gmaer

July 10th, 2010, 05:40 AM

there's a report about the US deploying four Ohio-class submarines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_class_submarine) in Asia, equipped with 154 Tomahawk cruise missiles per submarine (they used to carry 24 Trident II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UGM-133_Trident_II) ballistic missiles each), and apparently one just docked in Subic:

Time (http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/08599200237800)

The Philippine international laws bans the use and entry of nuclear weapons on its territory so I don't know how a nuclear-powered submarine such as the Ohio class managed to dock in Subic?

^
Anong ipapadala natin sa War Games ? BRP Rajah Humabon or yung mga corvette class warships ?

The Emilio Jacinto class corvettes (former British Royal Navy Peacock class) is not capable of staying longer in the open seas. The Philippine Navy most of time sponsors war games on its own waters and seldom travel to foreign seas for war games. The last time they did they sent one of their WW2-era ships which drew a large crowd because it was a "floating classic"!

The Philippines has friendly diplomatic relations with China, Malaysia and Vietnam so they are not considered external threats.

On the other hand there have been small conflicts between China and The Philippines concerning The Spratlys but are solved peacefully and with diplomacy.

China knows that The Philippines have a weak armed force but is not stupid enough to even think of launching an invasion.

It would be hard to invade The Philippines dues to the large number of islands.

I don't think so :ohno:

Let me bookmark this post so I can support my claim later after I search for my answer from the other defense forums that I am a member of.

But I'm still for the modernization of the armed forces in all three branches and this start from eradicating corruption through Noynoy and posting discipline and a strong chain of command to the president.

Some equipments The Philippine armed forces should get

Army - main battle tanks
Navy - destroyers
Airforce - fighter planes, night attack helicopters

Philippine roads and bridges cannot support vehicles weighing more than 20 tons therefore having main battle tanks which are usually 60 tons can cause collateral damage.

But I'm still for the modernization of the armed forces in all three branches and this start from eradicating corruption through Noynoy and posting discipline and a strong chain of command to the president.

Some equipments The Philippine armed forces should get

Army - main battle tanks
Navy - destroyers
Airforce - fighter planes, night attack helicopters

EDITORIAL - Credible Defense (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=590994&publicationSubCategoryId=64)
(The Philippine Star) Updated July 07, 2010 12:00 AM

The nation cannot afford state-of-the-art fighter jets or aircraft carriers, but the government can at least see to it that the PAF has sufficient airworthy craft to perform its many tasks effectively.

4th generation (and beyond) fighter jets like the JAS Gripen should be out of the picture now since they are state-of-the-art and really expensive! Besides you are comparing users to countries which has better economies than the Philippines.

Christian_123

July 10th, 2010, 09:14 AM

It would be hard to invade The Philippines dues to the large number of islands.

What are you smoking? With the sheer size of the Chinese army, airforce and navy, Sisiw lang pilipinas sa kanila kung i-invade tayo.

Japan nga sandali lang tayo, China pa kaya? :lol:

Nanflexal

July 10th, 2010, 09:33 AM

What are you smoking? With the sheer size of the Chinese army, airforce and navy, Sisiw lang pilipinas sa kanila kung i-invade tayo.

Japan nga sandali lang tayo, China pa kaya? :lol:

gawin natin front line yon mga corrupt Congressman at Senator natin baka pwedi pa talo manalo dahil ibebenta nalang ng mga corrupt official na yan ang pilipinas.

pwedi sana idag-dag sa AFP modernization program yon fund sa street cleaning kung walang nagkakalat ng basura sa kaslada, tapon d2 tapon don, ito yon mga salot sa lipunan. tama ba?

kahit katiting na basura ko nasa bulsa ng pantalon ko pero pag may nakikita akong tao nagtatanong ng basura. gusto kung murahin dahil pahirap sya sa bayan.

kahit yon mga nasa Corporate worker P@ta, halos kamirahan sa kanila enviromental terrorist. 99% sure. kahit sa may Paseo, P@ta may naka lagay na basurahan kalat parin ng kalat ng basura, sarap bugbugin.

TheAvenger

July 10th, 2010, 09:39 AM

What are you smoking? With the sheer size of the Chinese army, airforce and navy, Sisiw lang pilipinas sa kanila kung i-invade tayo.

Japan nga sandali lang tayo, China pa kaya? :lol:

How about the Israelis ? they fought the Arab Army more than 100 times bigger than them.

Do you mean that the Philippines should just surrender when Chinese Army start their aggressions and occupied the Philippines.

Kampi ka ba nila..............

Nanflexal

July 10th, 2010, 09:52 AM

hindi kasi nag iinvest ang pilipinas sa defense equipment, panay second gustong bilihin ng mga official ng goverment.

sana yon bagong administration, bigyan talaga ng antention yon Defense department.

wala tayon SAM, destroyer, anti-submarine, missile frigate, Fighter jet, Long range radar and maritime patrol.

yon mga equipment natin kasi ngayon, wala pang kalaban ng-crash na yon eroplano or helicopter. lalo na siguro pag may real enimy na.

what we have, Corrupt government official, Under-the table deal, hello compari, i-approve mo na yon project may 20% commission ka.

kahit 12 Fighter lang, siguro naman makikinig sila sa government kung makikita nila na paparating ng yon delivery para sa kanila.

kalbongdad

July 10th, 2010, 04:26 PM

The Philippine international laws bans the use and entry of nuclear weapons on its territory so I don't know how a nuclear-powered submarine such as the Ohio class managed to dock in Subic?

The Emilio Jacinto class corvettes (former British Royal Navy Peacock class) is not capable of staying longer in the open seas. The Philippine Navy most of time sponsors war games on its own waters and seldom travel to foreign seas for war games. The last time they did they sent one of their WW2-era ships which drew a large crowd because it was a "floating classic"!

I don't think so :ohno:

Let me bookmark this post so I can support my claim later after I search for my answer from the other defense forums that I am a member of.

Philippine roads and bridges cannot support vehicles weighing more than 20 tons therefore having main battle tanks which are usually 60 tons can cause collateral damage.

EDITORIAL - Credible Defense (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=590994&publicationSubCategoryId=64)
(The Philippine Star) Updated July 07, 2010 12:00 AM

4th generation (and beyond) fighter jets like the JAS Gripen should be out of the picture now since they are state-of-the-art and really expensive! Besides you are comparing users to countries which has better economies than the Philippines.

ako kung pano naka dock ang sub sa subic.........WITH US NOT KNOWING IT....that is how....:lol:

Christian_123

July 10th, 2010, 06:58 PM

How about the Israelis ? they fought the Arab Army more than 100 times bigger than them.

The difference between israel and the philippines is....Ang israel ay binibigyan ng mga modernong gamit ng US habang ang pilipinas ay binibigyan ng patapon o antique na gamit. :nuts:

Do you mean that the Philippines should just surrender when Chinese Army start their aggressions and occupied the Philippines.

Kampi ka ba nila..............

Why not? France did it when they got overpowered by Germany. So why cant we do it also? Unless you want millions of chinese soldiers, countless of navy ships, countless numbers of tanks and artillery bombarding our faces....Which can lead to massive casualties...

Military Manpower Available:
China: 729,323,673
Philippines: 46,724,739

Wow ang dami nila :nuts:

Arvor

July 10th, 2010, 11:18 PM

Its not really much about numbers altho numbers might count somewhat its more about strategies and equipment and a forces overal quality, the Chinese military is large and theyve lots of toys but they are still largely inexperienced in modern combat the Russians who themselves are at a lower level of quality and capability compared to the west have a low esteem of the Chinese forces theyve trained with on ocassion .

When Vietnam launched a campaign against the Khmer Rouge in Cambodgia which were Chinese allies, the Chinese launched a massive invasion of Vietnam while the Vietnamese who recently had fought the Vietnam war with the Americans basically had more experience and managed to draw the Chinese into a rather humiliating stalemate .

Im not saying that the Chinese should be discounted but aside from their capability to hit us with missiles and artilery from air and sea they are still not capable of mounting a modern invasion which is why they still have not invaded Taiwan .

The key is to master strategy and have a military that is appropriately equipped and led, as ive posted in the last threads a short historical list of how it was that smaller but more modern and well led armies throughout history managed to win decisive victories over much larger adversaries ... .

TheAvenger

July 11th, 2010, 12:33 AM

The difference between israel and the philippines is....Ang israel ay binibigyan ng mga modernong gamit ng US habang ang pilipinas ay binibigyan ng patapon o antique na gamit. :nuts:

Why not? France did it when they got overpowered by Germany. So why cant we do it also? Unless you want millions of chinese soldiers, countless of navy ships, countless numbers of tanks and artillery bombarding our faces....Which can lead to massive casualties...

Military Manpower Available:
China: 729,323,673
Philippines: 46,724,739

Wow ang dami nila :nuts:

ikaw nalang mag isa ang sumurender.
kung gusto mo doon ka na lang sa china manirahan. :banana:

gmaer

July 11th, 2010, 01:12 AM

Surrendering and retreating to the enemy is not a cowardly act but a wise one considering that you will be able to save more lives and property by not directly fighting a powerful adversary. Would you fight a tank with a bolo? Or a bomber/missile with a bow and arrow? Hell no! I rather retreat and do guerrilla warfare.

Brown Tiger

July 11th, 2010, 01:54 AM

Brandon32

July 11th, 2010, 03:13 AM

gmaer

July 11th, 2010, 05:42 AM

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=59833903&postcount=4506

Because Poland host the company that won the Philippine Air Force's bidding contest for a combat utility helicopter - the PZL Swidnik W-3 Sokol

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=59844973&postcount=4509

By default 1 fighter jet squadron = 12 fighter jets

China cannot & Should Not Invade Taiwan because it will be the END OF THE WORLD (World War III)....

By the Way, If We could have Php. 27.6 Billion Budget, We can acquire 10 Top of The Line Gripens.
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/JS.jpg

Day dreaming? China does not want Taiwan to declare its own independence and invading them will not be the end of the world nor the start of another world war because for a war to become a world war there should be several countries involved on different battle fields. The most eminent war to be will be another Korean War once the UN punishes North Korea for the sinking of a South Korean warship. Where will the Philippines get a Php27.6 billion defense budget when the 1st priority is to solve poverty? We are not Pakistan nor North Korea that spends so much on military hardware that they have forgotten to deliver food on the table for their citizens - paranoid states that thinks that one day their neighbor will invade them.

Speaking of fighter jets for the Philippine Air Force... The Israeli KFIR 2000 C-10 is the best low cost MRF solution to replace the retired F-5 and the current S-211 trainer jets that are currently being used for air defense. Colombia uses its KFIR as defense against Venezuelan SU-27 fighters. The KFIR 2000 is a third generation fighter jet upgraded by Israel to 4th generation standards with the Philippines in mind and it was initially offered during the late President Cory Aquino's term in exchange for gulaman!

More information about the Israeli KFIR 2000 will be posted later...

Christian_123

July 11th, 2010, 10:24 AM

ikaw nalang mag isa ang sumurender.
kung gusto mo doon ka na lang sa china manirahan. :banana:

Sige, enjoy mo nalang un pagpatay ng mga Chinese Redguards sa mga kababayan natin at ang pag wasak nila sa metro manila in a super violent way possible. Remember, China don't give a shit on human rights.

Our Uncle Sam can't do shit about also because sobrang laki na ng utang ng US sa China :banana:

Kintoy

July 11th, 2010, 10:40 AM

China cannot & Should Not Invade Taiwan because it will be the END OF THE WORLD (World War III)....

By the Way, If We could have Php. 27.6 Billion Budget, We can acquire 10 Top of The Line Gripens.
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/JS.jpg

so wala ka nang pang-sweldo sa mga sundalo at pangmaintain ng ibang equipment, at gasolina/fuel sa mga sasakyan. kudeta ang aabutin mo nyan

le Reine

July 11th, 2010, 01:02 PM

The KFIR 2000 is a third generation fighter jet upgraded by Israel to 4th generation standards with the Philippines in mind and it was initially offered during the late President Cory Aquino's term in exchange for gulaman!

More information about the Israeli KFIR 2000 will be posted later...Seriously?!?

Christian_123

July 11th, 2010, 02:35 PM

^^Wow, modern jets ang inoffer sa atin at ang pambayad lang ay ang simpleng gulaman natin :hilarious ! Kung totoo nga yan, another good opportunity ruined by cory :bash:.

Brown Tiger

July 11th, 2010, 02:40 PM

Seriously?!?

KFIR's Are No Longer Used by Its Manufacturer - ISRAEL

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/kfir2.jpg

kalbongdad

July 11th, 2010, 04:46 PM

bottom line....we have to have a respectable force....na pag may nag attempt hindi naman sila parang papasok lang ng hindi sila masasaktan din....a deterrent force kumbaga....we should stop relying on the unreliable americans......see what happened to south vietnam....to iraq.....pagmainit na o hindi nila type at not advantageous to their interests.....they will not lift a finger....tingnan nyo ang vietnam...ilang beses na sila nagaaway ng china...hindi sila bast ma saling dahil mas war ready ang mga vietnamese....poor trained ang army ng china....volume lang ....sila..

gaLj

July 11th, 2010, 06:21 PM

Bumili nalang tayo ng 4-4.5th gen fighters kahit 2 squadron lang ng su-27/30 or f16 c/d

gmaer

July 12th, 2010, 12:52 AM

A modern fighter cost around 30 million to procure then you need spare parts you need to keep up the pilots training and flying hours and all the other stuff that goes with maintaining a modern fighter craft which cost money .

You can get a low cost combat proven multi-role supersonic modern fighter jet with complete package including training and maintenance at under 20 million pesos like the Israeli KFIR 2000.

Each branch should at least get 1,5 billion $ and increase spending to around 2-3% of gdp .

But where will the AFP get such big budget?

Seriously?!?

Yes it's true! The S-211 was acquired using the same gulaman trade deal.

KFIR's Are No Longer Used by Its Manufacturer - ISRAEL

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/kfir2.jpg

True and that is why they are selling it...

^^Wow, modern jets ang inoffer sa atin at ang pambayad lang ay ang simpleng gulaman natin :hilarious ! Kung totoo nga yan, another good opportunity ruined by cory :bash:.

http://www.timawa.net/modernization-paf.htm

Israel has been constantly wooing successive Philippine administrations to buy the Kfir. From President Aquino's time, IAI has offered the C.2 variant in exchange for carageenan (a seaweed extract - gulaman), later the C.7 variant at US$144 million for 18 C.7s ($7 million for each C.7 and $16 million for each TC.7 2-seat trainer), and currently, the Kfir 2000 or C.10 which uses avionics and weapons systems from the cancelled Lavi fighter project. The Kfir 2000 uses the advanced IAI/Elta ELM-2032 multi-role radar (which is claimed to be better than the US APG-73 as fitted in the F/A-18) and a modern missionized avionics suite tailored and integrated to meet the customers requirements. The Israelis have also reportedly offered the Philippines the Alto/Derby BVR air-to-air missile, with an effective engagement envelope of 50 km (31 miles).

Bumili nalang tayo ng 4-4.5th gen fighters kahit 2 squadron lang ng su-27/30 or f16 c/d

The Philippines cannot even afford 2nd hand F-16 fighters!

Christian_123

July 12th, 2010, 01:45 AM

The Philippines cannot even afford 2nd hand F-16 fighters!

Heck, kahit army nga natin ay hinde kaya bumili ng super dirt cheap T-55 tanks eh....PAF pa kaya...dream on :lol:

gmaer

July 12th, 2010, 01:52 AM

Heck, kahit army nga natin ay hinde kaya bumili ng super dirt cheap T-55 tanks eh....PAF pa kaya...dream on :lol:

Besides if you read my other posts the Philippines will not buy MBTs because their weight cannot be supported by our bridges and roads which is why the AFP wants IFVs and APCs because they weigh below the 20 ton limit.

This thread can become more of a military fantasy thread if such proposals (like the F16/Su27) are not supported with facts and figures.

RonnieR

July 12th, 2010, 10:40 AM

Aquino mulls tapping private sector to finance military modernization
(philstar.com) Updated July 12, 2010 03:40 PM

MANILA, Philippines (Xinhua) -- The cash-strapped Philippine government is eyeing the private sector's assistance in the modernization of the Armed Forces of the Philippines, President Aquino said at the AFP Command Conference at Camp Aguinaldo in Quezon City today.

Mr. Aquino conducted the conference with the military leadership, the first since he assumed the presidency, and discussed how the modernization program of the AFP will be funded.

"What was proposed today formally can really help in achieving the aims of our modernization program as the soonest possible time by actively soliciting the private sector help to assist the government," he said.

The President said the details are still being worked out.

"We will have to examine the pertinent laws that will enable us or are posing a hindrance to achieving these outlays without massive appropriations from the GAA (General Appropriations Act)," he explained.

The Development Budget and Coordination Committee, which sets the government's macroeconomic assumptions, recently raised its budget deficit for this year to 3.9 percent of GDP or P325 billion from P293.2 billion.

Mr. Aquino said the directive to the government troops is to win the hearts and minds of the people in their counter-insurgency battle.

I reemphasize the fact that they (troops) are the protector of the people and the state, and (that) the counter-insurgency battle has to go back to the hearts and minds campaign," he said.

Brown Tiger

July 12th, 2010, 12:33 PM

THE CHEAPEST OF THEM ALL @ US$ 2.4M A PIECE

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/f4e.jpg

General characteristics

Crew: 2
Length: 63 ft 0 in (19.2 m)
Wingspan: 38 ft 4.5 in (11.7 m)
Height: 16 ft 6 in (5.0 m)
Wing area: 530.0 ft² (49.2 m²)
Airfoil: NACA 0006.4-64 root, NACA 0003-64 tip
Empty weight: 30,328 lb (13,757 kg)
Loaded weight: 41,500 lb (18,825 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 61,795 lb (28,030 kg)
Powerplant: 2× General Electric J79-GE-17A axial compressor turbojets, 17,845 lbf (79.4 kN) each
Zero-lift drag coefficient: 0.0224
Drag area: 11.87 ft² (1.10 m²)
Aspect ratio: 2.77
Fuel capacity: 1,994 U.S. gal (7,549 L) internal, 3,335 U.S. gal (12,627 L) with three external tanks (370 U.S. gal (1,420 L) tanks on the outer wing hardpoints and either a 600 or 610 U.S. gal (2,310 or 2,345 L) tank for the centerline station).
Maximum landing weight: 36,831 lb (16,706 kg)
Performance

Maximum speed: Mach 2.23 (1,472 mph, 2,370 km/h) at 40,000 ft (12,190 m)
Cruise speed: 506 kn (585 mph, 940 km/h)
Combat radius: 367 nmi (422 mi, 680 km)
Ferry range: 1,403 nmi (1,615 mi, 2,600 km) with 3 external fuel tanks
Service ceiling: 60,000 ft (18,300 m)
Rate of climb: 41,300 ft/min (210 m/s)
Wing loading: 78 lb/ft² (383 kg/m²)
lift-to-drag: 8.58
Thrust/weight: 0.86 at loaded weight, 0.58 at MTOW
Takeoff roll: 4,490 ft (1,370 m) at 53,814 lb (24,410 kg)
Landing roll: 3,680 ft (1,120 m) at 36,831 lb (16,706 kg)
Armament

Up to 18,650 lb (8,480 kg) of weapons on nine external hardpoints, including general purpose bombs, cluster bombs, TV- and laser-guided bombs, rocket pods (UK Phantoms 6 × Matra rocket pods with 18 × SNEB 68 mm rockets each), air-to-ground missiles, anti-runway weapons, anti-ship missiles, targeting pods, reconnaissance pods, and nuclear weapons. Baggage pods and external fuel tanks may also be carried.
4× AIM-7 Sparrow in fuselage recesses plus 4 × AIM-9 Sidewinders on wing pylons; upgraded Hellenic F-4E and German F-4F ICE carry AIM-120 AMRAAM, Japanese F-4EJ Kai carry AAM-3, Hellenic F-4E will carry IRIS-T in future. Iranian F-4s could potentially carry Russian and Chinese missiles. UK Phantoms carried Skyflash missiles[112]
1× M61 Vulcan 20 mm (.79 in) gatling cannon, 640 rounds
4× AIM-9 Sidewinder, Python-3 (F-4 Kurnass 2000), IRIS-T (F-4E AUP Hellenic Air Force)
4× AIM-7 Sparrow, AAM-3(F-4EJ Kai)
4× AIM-120 AMRAAM for F-4F ICE, F-4E AUP (Hellenic Air Force)
6× AGM-65 Maverick
4× AGM-62 Walleye
4× AGM-45 Shrike, AGM-88 HARM, AGM-78 Standard ARM
4× GBU-15
18× Mk.82, GBU-12
5× Mk.84, GBU-10, GBU-14
18× CBU-87, CBU-89, CBU-58
SUU-23/A 20 mm (.79 in) gun pod

Englehart

July 12th, 2010, 12:45 PM

^^

1996 pa yan retired eh.......

F-14 kaya:lol::lol::lol:

mwg12a

July 12th, 2010, 12:52 PM

so wala ka nang pang-sweldo sa mga sundalo at pangmaintain ng ibang equipment, at gasolina/fuel sa mga sasakyan. kudeta ang aabutin mo nyan

Hindi naman pang handa pag may guera o gustong sumakot, kailangan din naman ng fighter jets para sa reconnaissance lalo na pang spot sa mga pumapasok sa bansa sa pamamagitan ng dagat, lalo na sa mga terrorista na pumapasok sa pinas kung hindi man dumaan sa mga international airport sa filipinas. Kulang ang mga Navy ships para dito at mas madaling makita sa himpapawig ang mga nag tatangkang pumasok sa bansa lalo na ang mga mangingisdang dayuhan na nakakarating hanggang sa territory ng Pinas. Kahit lima lang puede na siguro.

Kintoy

July 12th, 2010, 02:29 PM

having a good armed forces is not just buying the equipment, there's also the maintenance side. it's not as easy as picking one good looking plane and saying "it's only $2.4 million, let's buy some." the airforce will need to train the pilots to be able to use it, and use up lots of money for maintaining them for 10-15 years

kahit mura na yung F-4, it's still Vietnam-war era and god knows kung meron pang mga spare parts ang mga yan sa Banawe. :lol:

the Philippines need to buy more ships, because our sealanes are too porous. a few interceptors too, and good radar installations.

ferny123

July 12th, 2010, 03:37 PM

How about the Israelis ? they fought the Arab Army more than 100 times bigger than them.

Do you mean that the Philippines should just surrender when Chinese Army start their aggressions and occupied the Philippines.

Kampi ka ba nila..............

well we should just surrender. if we fight maybe half of the population of the philippines will die. and many more because of famine starvation and many more factors.

so best way is to surrender and just request for autonomy.

but if we have tactical nukes. we will just blast them right away and we'd be fine hahahaha

anyways for the

army-we need to train the ground soldiers more, invest in personel protection, armoured carriers. personally i think we dont need tanks but it still looks good if we have them.

navy-state of the art patrol vessels,

air force- utility helicopters, replace our aging transport aircrafts and new attack helicopters night capable. fighter planes could be 10 years or 5 years from now. we really dont need them.

Arvor

July 12th, 2010, 10:37 PM

But where will the AFP get such big budget?

By improving the tax collection system, expanding the economy by reforming certain laws and other means, which is probably not pertinent to discuss further on this particular thread .

But heres what i wrote about it ...
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=571704&page=35
Just scroll down to my 3rd post on that thread/page.

You can get a low cost combat proven multi-role supersonic modern fighter jet with complete package including training and maintenance at under 20 million pesos like the Israeli KFIR 2000.

Well what would the aircrafts purpose be given that its going to be as useless as an S.211 ?, the KFIR is basically an old design which is itself a copy of the even older French mirage fighter design in essence the KFIR is a copy of what is by now an obsolete 50 year old design, as such the most we can use it for is to shoot down or track civilian aircraft and perhaps some light bombing roles on rebels and a reconaissance role all stuff the S.211 trainer or other "cheaper" aircraft can do .

There is simply no logic in purchasing a KFIR aircraft which will soon be inferior to most of the main "possible" threats it will have to go up against ( Chinese, Taiwanese or Malaysian aircraft ) while being more expensive than cheaper aircraft that can do the roles that the KFIR will be useful for, furthermore to buy the Kfir would require American go ahead so why not just buy an American aircraft directly such as the F16 .

The best choice in reviving the PAF's fighter capacity with a minimum and credible capacity would probably be a couple of second hand F16's from the US otherwise a joint Gripen buy with Thailand for about half to a dozen fighters would do .

If you want true operational sovereignty without having to ask American permission on who you can or not use your plane against ( and this goes for the Kfir ) while still having western high tech and standards and interoperability would be the French Dassault Rafale, its one of the top aircrafts out there at the moment and one of the rare aircrafts to do well against F22's in combat excercises, it is a full multirole aircraft bred to be a carrier fighter it is definetely superior to most of what any of our neighbours have but of course its costs are quite high, but then again one Rafale would be equal to half a dozen F16's ... .

On a side note the Gripen has once again made good points in evaluations regarding overall costs this time in Brazils new fighter competition and this is why it should be the Gripen which is a truelly perfect fit for the Phillipines budget and infrastructure :

On 5 January 2010, it was reported in the media that the final evaluation report by the Brazilian Air Force placed the Gripen ahead of the other two contenders. The decisive factor was apparently the overall cost of the new fighters, both in terms of unit cost, and operating and maintenance costs.

marxman

July 13th, 2010, 02:17 AM

well we should just surrender. if we fight maybe half of the population of the philippines will die. and many more because of famine starvation and many more factors.

so best way is to surrender and just request for autonomy.

but if we have tactical nukes. we will just blast them right away and we'd be fine hahahaha

anyways for the

army-we need to train the ground soldiers more, invest in personel protection, armoured carriers. personally i think we dont need tanks but it still looks good if we have them.

navy-state of the art patrol vessels,

air force- utility helicopters, replace our aging transport aircrafts and new attack helicopters night capable. fighter planes could be 10 years or 5 years from now. we really dont need them.

we should fight. para marami mamatay na mga walang kwentang pinoy. para nman kumonti ung population natin. dapat ipa una sa gyera ung mga kurakot na politiko, mga religious personalities (cbcp), militant groups, tapos ung mga estambay and mga squatters... ung mga high class and middle class lang dapat matira. hehe... evil...

Brown Tiger

July 13th, 2010, 02:53 AM

THE BEST BUY @ JUST US$ 15M

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/f16a.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/f16b.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/f163.jpg

kyril

July 13th, 2010, 04:38 AM

^ I agree.

Manila-X

July 13th, 2010, 05:03 AM

^ I agree.

The fact it is one of the most used fighter planes worldwide.

Anyway, other than CAT/ROTC, how about conscription for The Philippines?

fspooky

July 13th, 2010, 05:07 AM

Brown Tiger

July 13th, 2010, 07:14 AM

bat defense from foreign invaders na jet ang pinaguusapan natin? dapat anti insurgency planes muna... like the a-10 warthog and the embraer super tucano @USD9m and USD10m respectively. . yun ang sulit!! MILF and NPA will surely burn!!

ATTACK / DEFEND / SUPPORT AIRCRAFTS

INDONESIA (F-16 & SU-30)
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/indon.jpg

MALAYSIA (MIG-30/SU-27 & F-18 )
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/malays.jpg

THAILAND (F-16 & JAS39 GRIPEN)
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/thai-1.jpg

Brown Tiger

July 13th, 2010, 07:17 AM

SINGAPORE (F-15SG & F-16D/E)
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/sing-1.jpg

VIETNAM (SU-30/SU-27)
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/viet-2.jpg

AND OF COURSE, THE PHILIPPINES (S211 & OV-10)
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/philafp.jpg

gmaer

July 13th, 2010, 08:11 AM

mwg12a

July 13th, 2010, 08:12 AM

kahit mura na yung F-4, it's still Vietnam-war era and god knows kung meron pang mga spare parts ang mga yan sa Banawe. :lol:

the Philippines need to buy more ships, because our sealanes are too porous. a few interceptors too, and good radar installations.

Then, that gives PAF even more reason to acquire few new aircrafts and more ships. It's easy to see by air those who are penetrating the Philippines terrritory. They do need to have those old aircrafts they currently have now, it maybe more cheaper in the long run to get newer aircrafts than maintaining the old beater they now own. First of all, you mentioned about the availability of parts so it would definitely work into their advantage. Secondly, they do need to have their pilots and crews recertified every so often that training the pilots with the newer aircrafts would not be as extremely costly as we think it would be.

gmaer

July 13th, 2010, 08:23 AM

Well what would the aircrafts purpose be given that its going to be as useless as an S.211 ?, the KFIR is basically an old design which is itself a copy of the even older French mirage fighter design in essence the KFIR is a copy of what is by now an obsolete 50 year old design, as such the most we can use it for is to shoot down or track civilian aircraft and perhaps some light bombing roles on rebels and a reconaissance role all stuff the S.211 trainer or other "cheaper" aircraft can do .

There is simply no logic in purchasing a KFIR aircraft which will soon be inferior to most of the main "possible" threats it will have to go up against ( Chinese, Taiwanese or Malaysian aircraft ) while being more expensive than cheaper aircraft that can do the roles that the KFIR will be useful for, furthermore to buy the Kfir would require American go ahead so why not just buy an American aircraft directly such as the F16 .

The best choice in reviving the PAF's fighter capacity with a minimum and credible capacity would probably be a couple of second hand F16's from the US otherwise a joint Gripen buy with Thailand for about half to a dozen fighters would do .

If you want true operational sovereignty without having to ask American permission on who you can or not use your plane against ( and this goes for the Kfir ) while still having western high tech and standards and interoperability would be the French Dassault Rafale, its one of the top aircrafts out there at the moment and one of the rare aircrafts to do well against F22's in combat excercises, it is a full multirole aircraft bred to be a carrier fighter it is definetely superior to most of what any of our neighbours have but of course its costs are quite high, but then again one Rafale would be equal to half a dozen F16's ... .

I am talking about the Israeli KFIR 2000 not the KFIR that you read about in wikipedia. Let me introduce to you the Israeli KFIR 2000 - a 3rd generation fighter jet upgraded to 4th generation standards...

http://www.hobbiesvicente.com/images/KFIR%20C2-C7.jpg

Reference: http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/air-force-aviation/philippines-air-force-admits-no-fighter-jets-until-2011-a-4374-6/

Key Points

Israeli KFIR cost $7M each (low maintenance) and was introduced in 1975
American F16 cost $14-18M each(high maintenance) and was introduced in 1978

The current Philippine Defense Budget can acquire 2 KFIRs for the price of 1 F16. The F16 being offered to us are 2nd hand and surplus models while the KFIR being offered to us are also 2nd hand but upgraded models - optimized to be almost new.

Quoted from my reference:

I have to agree with the Kfir assessment. Its cheap, and the version the Israelis sold Columbia are fairly updated with a good Israeli made EL/M-2032 radar. With the Derby and Python 4, it can have pretty decent BVR and good WVR capabilities as well.

Going with the 2nd hand F-16s on the other hand would be slightly more expensive but a good bet on the aircraft's phenomenal reputation as a multirole fighter. Not only have many countries flown it, its has also been constantly upgraded to increase its mission effectiveness.

I too is starting to believe that the KFIR can be the best solution to the Philippine Air Force's needs for a low cost, all-weather and combat-proven air defense interceptor and fast attack plane.Where else can you get a Mach 2 burning, 6000kg payload carting, modern FCR seeing, DERBY and Python 4 + HMCS shooting fighter at under $20 million a pop??? The Kfir is definitely an excellent platform as long as you get zero hour airframes and a decent price. If however you can find an F-16 Block 30 for a comparable price you'd be crazy to go with an upgraded Mirage 3.

the Mirage F1 is comparable to the Kfir in terms of a long closed production line and a finite number of spares.

I'm not sure how much of the Kfir is actually close to a US aircraft apart from the engine, all of the avionics and weapons are Israeli built.However I'm sure the availability rates of a Kfir would be inferior to an equivalent F-16.

Look if they could even come close to affording an F-16 it seems like a no brainer to me. However, if you could be confident supporting the airframe the Kfir 2000 is a bargain.

All of the Avionics in the Kfir 2000 (EL/M-2032 ect) are brand spanking new and still in production, the J-79 should be almost as easy to support as the F-100 given the number of spares out there. These are the most maintenance intensive parts of the platform; IAI should have reasonable stocks of the other parts. They are supporting a moderate Kfir fleet out there right now after all.

Additionally you may actually get more capability (or at least more options) out of a Kfir 2000 than an F-16 block 25 or 30 (more FCR operating modes including SAR & I'd wager has better T&D performance over the baseline AN/APG-68, HOBS+HMCS, better cockpit with MFD's ect). I'm sure IAI would provide you with a further development path for the platform too, EL/M-2052, Python-5 ect.

I guess summing up the F-16 may be cheaper to support, but I'm not sure that would offset the additional acquisition cost for something that provides comparable capability. Additionally maintenance man-hours per flight hour may actually be lower for zero hour Kfir's than a 3000+ hour F-16C Block 30. All this has to be considered.

Used Kfir or F-16 would be cheaper to buy & much cheaper to operate, as would Mirage F.1 & Gripen. All are available & well-supported.Ecuador and Colombia don’t exactly have Western European defence budgets and both are more than happy supporting the Kfir.Right now there are 3 states which are economically comparable to the Philippines who are happily supporting the Kfir; they are even buying more of them (over Mirage F1's).

IIRC IAI offered the Kfir 2000 with an option for a full refurbishment; they replaced over 60% of the parts on the airframe, basically anything that could conceivably degrade. These Kfirs literally would be zero hour airframes.

his is according to ATAC guys in the US re; KFIR C10

INTERESTING INFO REGARDING THE KFIR:

kafir made in isreal built after the mirage. my
client, atac usa, of newport news, va. operates 7 of these on a navy master
contract for target tow, jamming, and threat simulation. i equipped all of
these aircraft with colllins arc-159 uhf radios , colllins arn-118 tacans,
and hazeltine apx-72 transponders.
atac bought in addition the garmin 530
gps/vhf nav and com systems. an isreali team is located in va. maintains
these aircraft for jeff parker, pres atac usa. jeff is usaf academy grad 1980
and f-16 pilot.
he selected the kafir because it will out turn an f-16 and can do mach II as
well as be purchased used from isreal for about
$200,000 much less than the f-16 which are not yet in civilian hands. he
says it turns like it is on rails. note the canard wing on the front of the
aircraft the ground crew are young ex-usaf kids both male and female who work
for atac usa.santa barbara, ca web page Balance Industries my
company cell818-370-9407

I think choosing Israeli Kfir is a wise one, why? I believe they are all LOW-MILEAGE and it was flown by Israeli Air Force between 1975 and 1982 during the Lebanon Invasion. Since then Kfirs were put on Storage awaiting deployment or to be sold to 3rd world countries such as Sri Lanka and Colombia and Israeli AirForce concentrate on using US made F15 and F16s.

PRICE= $4.5Million USD INTERIM FIGHTER FOR PAF

Multi Role Fighter Jet for the cash strapped PHILIPPINE AIR FORCE!!!

Kfir 2000 will definitely buy us some time while waiting for our proper modern MRF's it will be a good addition in nos. for the price that your paying, considering it is also equipped with the latest ;
Kfir C10/2000
Features a new multimode radar, capability to use a HMD (Helmet Mounted Display) and Python IV air-to-air missiles and two 127x177mm Multi-Function Displays.
The latest upgrade is the Kfir C10 standard, the upgrade is developed for export. It features a new multimode radar, capability to use a HMD (Helmet Mounted Display) and Python IV air-to-air missiles and two 127x177mm Multi-Function Displays. Brazil looked at leasing 12 Kfir C10s to replace the Mirage IIIEBR until the arrival of the F-X program aircraft, however no deal materialized. After several delays on a decision, the F-X program was cancelled in 2005. In June 2005, Brazil announced the selection of second-hand Mirage 2000Cs as an interim solution.

Armament Two Rafael-built DEFA 553 30-mm cannon with 140 rpg.
Maximum ordnance of 6085 kg (13,415 lb)
Shafrir 2
Python 3 IR AAMs
Mk 80 series bombs
Shrike
Maverick
GBU-13 guided weapons
TAL-1 and -2 CBUs

The KFIR C10 is capable of going against any 4.5 gen FJ's, considering it's updated technologies and not overused like the 3 years younger F16's, they were just not given the chance to prove it's full potential, Introduced 1975 and they were short lived 1976 by the F15 Eagles delivered by the US to Israel as main air superiority, knowing US interests in Global air superiority fighter jet market and US control and influence over the KFIR Technology with regards to the GE J79 made it limited or not available to other countries! it was only recently that they allowed some particular countries like ECUADOR,COLUMBIA,SRI LANKA to have these....and up to now still needs US approval to acquire one!!? Question; WHY DO "CLASSIFIED AIR FORCE USERS" still use them???!! I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NOTICED? that KFIR's air frame designs from the Mirage 2000 are still used by NEW LATEST MRF's like the EURO TYPHOON....

FROM; IAI's technology

KFIR UPGRADE

The Kfir (Young Lion) multi-role combat aircraft was designed and built by Lahav to provide the Israel Air Force (IAF) with an indigenously produced replacement for the Mirage aircraft that had constituted the backbone of its fighter force from the early 1960s. The requirements for the Kfir were based on the vast operational experience amassed by the IAF in numerous air-to-air encounters with Soviet designed aircraft. The Kfir aircraft was proven to be a worthy successor to the Mirage with a close-coupled canard/delta wing configuration offering significant improvements in agility, payload and range.

Much of the Kfir's outstanding agility is owed to its forward canards, which contribute greatly to the aircraft's high instantaneous and sustained turn rates. The canards also provide the Kfir with excellent low speed flight characteristics by enabling high angles of attack to be attained. These advantages, together with its small visual signature and high thrust to weight ratio, make the Kfir a tough opponent in the air-to-air combat arena.

In conjunction with the powerful GE J-79 engine and the high strength airframe and undercarriage, the nine hardpoints enables a total external payload of 5,500 kg (12,100) pounds to be carried. The Kfir can thus be configured with the mix of missiles, bombs, pods, fuel drop tanks etc. required for optimal mission performance. For example, ample internal fuel capacity and the ability to carry large external fuel drop tanks without compromising other stores carriage afford the Kfir the extended range, loiter time and stores load required for effective long range strike and combat air patrol missions. The Kfir's range can be further extended with the implementation of the aerial refueling option.

Ruggedness and dependability are additional important features incorporated into the Kfir as a result of the IAF's vast operational experience. The Kfir's sturdy, "fatigue free airframe" provides a service life of well over 8,000 flight hours. The Kfir's General Electric J-79 engine was upgraded with a smokeless combustion chamber and the Israeli-designed and developed digital engine temperature control amplifier. Furthermore, with over 3000 J-79s in service worldwide the "availability of spares and support is guaranteed." These features, together with the aircraft's affordable acquisition cost, enable Kfir users to enjoy very low life cycle cost.

Lahav has also made great effort to ensure that all versions of the Kfir, from the C-1 through to today's advanced C-10, feature highly effective mission optimized avionics systems. (In fact, the avionics system equipping the Kfir C-10 places the aircraft at the "forefront" of fighter design in terms of its human engineering, radar performance, weapons delivery and navigational accuracy, maintainability and growth potential.) The Kfir C-10's flexible centralized avionics architecture enables the following features to be incorporated:

Pilot friendly advanced "Glass" Cockpit
Hands On Throttle And Stick (HOTAS) operation Advanced multi-mode Fire Control Radar (FCR) with SAR
State-of-the-art weapons delivery, including Beyond Visual Range missiles
Digital Moving Map (DMM)
Electronic Warfare (EW) Suite
The Kfir C-10 draws upon the operational experience of IAF pilots to provide an optimized cockpit layout and man machine interface. The HOTAS controlled cockpit is equipped with a new Head Up Display (HUD), two 5"x5" Multi Function Color Displays (MFCDs), Up Front Control Panel (UFCP) and an optional Helmet Mounted Display System (HMDS), affording outstanding situational awareness and efficient avionics and weapons system operation. Furthermore, by providing only that information which is required for each mission segment, the Kfir C-10's easy to use menu driven display screens minimize clutter and afford reduced pilot workload.

Also included in the Kfir C-10 avionics system is IAI/Elta's operationally proven EL/M-2032 multi-mode fire control radar, which offers a wide range of air-to-air and air-to-ground modes, including SAR, for optimal mission performance in all weather conditions. The Kfir C-10 can incorporate additional advanced sensors that provide highly effective day/night target detection and designation capabilities.

The Kfir is in service with many satisfied customers worldwide and has contributed greatly to the excellent reputation enjoyed by Lahav. The list of countries that operate the Kfir includes Colombia, Ecuador and other "classified users". (The Kfir aircraft has recently seen a great deal of action with a classified Air Force, which is exploiting its exceptional air-to-ground capabilities.)

As the Kfir's original manufacturer, Lahav provides comprehensive support for all versions of the aircraft. Moreover, being the world's most experienced combat aircraft upgrade house, Lahav is equipped to provide effective, "cost efficient upgrade solutions that are tailored to each customer's operational and budgetary requirements."

Yes the KFIR C10 w/ the right upgrade especially with regards to its combat/ferry range and armaments can match the MRF's of our neighbours and can still pose as a threat to them, this should give them something to worry about unlike not having one!!
It's not all advance technology that is important, remember without proper skills these are all worth nothing!! I believe we have one of the best talented pilots in the world and being a filipino gives it an advantage! We are recognized as a true WARRIORS!
Considering the price of the KFIR, as for interim I think it's worth it! and will add nos. to our future AIR FLEET! it's far better than S 211 or even F5's,A4 skyhawk, like I said it's an UNDERESTIMATED FIGHTER!

Guys from ATAC in US an F16 pilot testified that a KFIR can out manoeuvre an F16 falcon easy! similar issue happened on the Movie shooting behind the scenes from the Movie "IRON EAGLE " where ISRAELI Pilots where leased to fly KFIR C10's against US F16s, were the ISRAELI Fighter pilots were trying to show off and out manoeuvred the US F16s!!!

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT KFIR C10s don't have FLY BY WIRE systems like F16s!

INTERESTING INFO REGARDING THE KFIR:

kafir made in isreal built after the mirage. my
client, atac usa, of newport news, va. operates 7 of these on a navy master
contract for target tow, jamming, and threat simulation. i equipped all of
these aircraft with colllins arc-159 uhf radios , colllins arn-118 tacans,
and hazeltine apx-72 transponders.
atac bought in addition the garmin 530
gps/vhf nav and com systems. an isreali team is located in va. maintains
these aircraft for jeff parker, pres atac usa. jeff is usaf academy grad 1980
and f-16 pilot.
he selected the kafir because it will out turn an f-16 and can do mach II as
well as be purchased used from isreal for about
$200,000 much less than the f-16 which are not yet in civilian hands. he
says it turns like it is on rails. note the canard wing on the front of the
aircraft the ground crew are young ex-usaf kids both male and female who work
for atac usa.santa barbara, ca web page is balance industries for my
company cell818-370-9407

As we all know our present problems regarding SPRATLYS, Intrusions in our Areas of responsibilities, Security etc. are in need of effective immediate solutions.

Which brings as back to why the idea of acquiring the Kfir jets is a best option in my opinion, so that we can fill in the gap of our PAF with regards to training and prepare them for transitions using 4.5 to 5th generation in the future. We don't have to spend all that money in one go and at same time we can monitor the expenses on how we can properly maintain everything with regards to the budget and at same time also concentrate on getting some RADAR station set up, Missile Defenses like SAMs, Surface to air, etc. to protect our repair facilities, fuel depots and runways w/c is unprotected.

We do not have armoured fighter bays or anti-aircraft guns to deter bombings of our air facilities (and thats a general knowlege even our generals admit it!) For the small price that will pay for the Kfir and the no. of jets that were getting, will surely help us budgetary wise, will provide immediate air superiority and protection to our air space and sovereignty. let's face it PAF has a big gap to fill in and considering coming from a 3rd generation F5 fighter jet to jump into a 4.5 gen to 5th generation will be a shock.

Maintenance in accordance with the budget was always a problem for us, and its one of the things that we should sort out. As long as the budget can handle it. it's just an interim solution for us to reestablish
the PAFs air defense capability, once our air force concentrates on territorial defense and the country's economy is strong and stable, then we can acquire 4th or even 5th gen fighters.

Maybe a small air fleet (18-24) like KFIR JETS upgraded fighters will provide the countrya formidable and credible air force capable of defending our country against external threats, the idea of getting Modern fighter like 4.5 gen JAS 39 GRIPEN is the best option on a yearly basis. for me I wouldn't get F-16, F-18's because they are the ones to be phased out by the time F-35 LIGHTNING and F-22 RAPTOR comes out for the market.

2011-2012+ (18) IAI KFIR C10- as main air fleet until GRIPEN arrives, then
after as support and interim fighter.

Want more information about the Israeli KFIR 2000 C-10 model?

april boy

July 13th, 2010, 11:37 AM

april boy

July 13th, 2010, 11:56 AM

or how about this...

T-50 Golden Eagle Jet Trainer and Light Attack Aircraft, South Korea

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/t-50/images/t50_1.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/t-50/images/t50_5.jpg

Although too expensive...

Brown Tiger

July 13th, 2010, 01:01 PM

THE OBSOLETE KFIR (From The Military factory.com- The Bible on Military aircrafts)

IAI Kfir / F-21A
The Kfir is based on French-made Dassault Mirage 5 series of aircraft.
By Staff Writer Share

The Kfir (translated to "Lion Cub") was a semi-indigenous Israeli fighter development designed to fulfill an IAF (Israeli Air Force) requirement for a ground strike fighter. While Israel had purchased and was awaiting delivery of some 50 new-build Dassault Mirage 5Js from France, an arms embargo all but cancelled deliveries. As is most often the case nowadays, Israel looked from within to find their solution and - through some inherent ingenuity coupled with a smattering of global espionage that would make James Bond proud - the Kfir was born.

In many ways, the Kfir became the ultimate development of the French Dassault Mirage III fighter line, though stocked with Israeli avionics and a myriad of airframe changes to differentiate the new aircraft form her French-based origins. Though commonly associated with the IAF, the Kfir has also seen operational service (albeit quantitatively limited) with Colombia, Ecuador, Sri Lanka and the United States of America (in the latter serving with both the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps).

Background

Any nation with the relatively short military history of modern-day Israel knows a thing or two about what she needs to wage war. Essentially born into fighting for its sheer survival, Israel had long since relied on the purchases of foreign aircraft to fill the inventory of its Israeli Air Force and Israeli Defense Force. The country had already made good on the purchase of its first Mach 2-capable jet fighters in the Dassault Mirage III series, becoming the first such foreign customer of the French aircraft. The Mirage III was an all-weather delta-winged speedster that proved hugely successful on the open market with some 1,422 examples produced - no small feat in the post-World War 2 world. Israel operated the type throughout the 1960s and featured the aircraft prominently (with success) in the 1967 and 1973 Arab Wars as well as other less-intensive conflicts.

Such experience with the French system unveiled a few noticeable limitations when considering IAF needs. While a stellar air-to-air fighter, the particular Israeli Mirage IIICJs were not wholly-suited to the multirole requirements of the IAF. Additionally, the Mirage III was underpowered with her base engine and ill-suited for the required ranges in the types of sorties that the IAF would be partaking of in the near future. The Mirage III also required plenty of runway surface for its take-off and landing procedures. To top it all off, Israeli pilots had outgrown the usefulness of the original avionics suite.

Israel had begun receiving deliveries of Douglas A-4 Skyhawks and McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom IIs by the end of the 1960s with both American-made aircraft proving quite capable in covering Israeli air defence/air superiority roles. Perhaps most important was the Israel right to license produce the excellent General Electric J79 turbojet engines that were powering its F-4 Phantoms - a fact that would come into play in the future development of the Kfir.

Initially teaming with the French firm Dassault Aviation, the two countries formulated a daytime ground strike version of the Mirage III airframe to be designated the Mirage 5 (original using the Roman "5" as in "Mirage V"). The Mirage 5 would feature a similar large surface delta-wing layout, a lightened maintenance load and an increased internal fuel capacity for improved range. Fifty examples of this new aircraft were made ready by 1968 but an arms embargo imposed by the French government against Israel the year before spelled doom for the deal. As such, no Mirage Vs were delivered to Israel but instead reallocated out to the French Air Force.

Undeterred, the Israelis set about fulfilling the IAF requirement through other avenues. This involved the brazen theft of some 250,000 Mirage-related documents from the offices of Luftech Corporation accomplished via the Israeli intelligence service. Luftech was subcontracted out by Sulzer Engineering Corporation in Switzerland, the latter itself signed on by Dassault to help in the license-production effort of French Mirages. Such covert actions proved a success and afforded the Israelis everything they needed to know about the French system.

Before time, a two-seat Mirage IIIBJ flew with its J79 turbojet engine in September of 1970. A two-seat Kfir prototype was made airborne on October 19th of that same year. An unlicensed copy of the Mirage V (known in Israel as the "Nesher") soon appeared and was re-engined with the J79, flying in September of 1971. The Kfir prototype was refined with new Israeli avionics, a reinforced undercarriage and a redesigned cockpit under the designation of Ra'am (or "Thunder"). This first flight took place in June 1973.

Engineering of the new system was accomplished in a relatively short length of time and, though a General Electric turbojet and Rolls-Royce turbofan were both considered for the new fighter, the finalized Kfir unsurprisingly fitted the proven GE J79. The Spey turbofan was of British origin and powered the British fleet of McDonnell Douglas F-4K Phantoms and Blackburn Buccaneers. As can be expected, the availability and local license-production of the J79E1 turbojet (regarded as the most powerful of the J79 engine line) in Israel made the decision that much easier. It did, however, force a stricter export policy for any future Kfir sales overseas - these requiring US State Department approval.

Selection of the J79 forced a complete redesign of the existing Mirage III airframe. The J79 was larger, shorter and provided for 11% more mass flow at the expense of higher operating temperatures than the original Mirage III powerplant. The fuselage was widened and shortened while the intakes were enlarged, the latter to profile increased airflow into the turbojet engine. The engine, in whole, was shielded with titanium and an airscoop was fitted to the leading edge base of the vertical tail fin to help with afterburner cooling. The added weight and expected field operations of the new aircraft were handled through a revised and reinforced undercarriage. A J79-engined Mirage IIIB served as another Kfir prototype, this time fitted with foreplane canards and strakes, and took to the air in 1974. When all was said and done, the Israelis had essentially gone ahead and produced an entirely new aircraft.

Production Kfirs began delivery to the IAF between 1974 and 1975, missing out on actions in the Yom Kippur War of 1973.

Kfir Walk-Around

The IAI Kfir sports a tail-less delta wing planform, basically defining it as an aircraft not featuring horizontal tail planes. The main wings, large in surface area and low-mounted onto the fuselage, dominate the design and provide the necessary lift and control surfaces. The wings themselves make up over half the length of the fuselage and feature noticeable sweep back along the leading edge ending in clipped wingtips and a tapered trailing edge with subtle sweep. The delta shape begins just aft of the side intakes and continue aft, stopping just forward of the exhaust port. The main wings are complimented (in most Kfir models) by a pair of smaller forward-mounted implements known as canards. Canards are used in aircraft to improve handling and provide additional lift at low-speeds usually supplying more inherent benefits than initially intended - sometimes none at all. The canards on the Kfir are mounted noticeably higher than the main wings and just ahead of the main wing components.

Part of the Kfirs identifying features include its slim nose cone leading up to the two-piece canopy covering the cockpit. The cockpit is situated well-forward in the fuselage and the sloping nose section aids in relatively unobstructed views both forward and down as well as above and side to side. The intakes are situated just aft of the cockpit to either side and are capped by internally-mounted inlet cones. The fuselage features a raised spine running from the rear of the cockpit to the base of the vertical tail fin. The tail fin is relatively large and sports sweep back along both the leading and trailing edges. The tail fin extends some length over the exhaust opening at rear. A thin ventral fin is apparent under engine exhaust port.

The undercarriage is fully retractable and of a conventional tricycle arrangement made up of two main single-wheeled landing gear legs and a single-wheeled nose leg. The nose leg retracts rearward under the cockpit floor while the main landing gear systems fold forward and toward the fuselage centerline.

Armament

Standard armament for the Kfir is a pair of 30mm Rafael DEFA 553-series cannons. Each gun is afforded between 120 and 140 rounds of ammunition that can be utilized to hit both the air-to-air or air-to-surface role with equal fervor. To compliment this armament, the Kfir can field various munitions along its five (or seven) external hardpoints with two at underwing positions and three hardpoints placed along the fuselage. The general benefits of the delta form allow for such increased payloads and internal fuel thanks to the added wing area when compared to that of traditional swept wing planforms.

For air-to-air sorties, the Kfir can sport the American-made AIM-9 Sidewinder short-range air-to-air missile as well as the Israeli-made Python family of missiles. Two of either missile can be carried aloft. For air-to-surface sorties involving ground targets, the Kfir is cleared for using the American AGM-65 Maverick missile. Combating radar installations is done through use of the Shrike anti-radiation missile. Rockets feature prominently into the Kfir arsenal and are made up of 19-shot launcher pods fielding 68mm unguided rockets. Laser-guided (Paveway) and conventional drop bombs (Mark 80, Matra Durandal) round out the air-to-surface toolbox of the Kfir. Hardpoints can also be utilized for "specialized" cargo depending on sortie type and include reconnaissance pods and drop tanks (the latter for increased range and loitering times).

Variants

The Kfir line has spawned into few known variants. While the original Kfir became 27 first-run production models, at least 25 five of these aircraft were leased to the United States between 1985 and 1989 for use with the USN and the USMC in the aggressor role. When in the US inventory, these Kfir's were designated as F-21A. American Kfirs differed in some respects with the most noteworthy item of note being the implementation of the forward canards for better handling, turning and lower speed control particularly during take-off. The success of the canards in these models proved promising enough that they were incorporated into the revised C.1 standard.

The Kfir C.2 was an improved form of the base C.1 production model, with the C.2 first flying in 1974 and deliveries beginning in 1976. She became the first official standard production Kfir with a host of aerodynamic changes. The leading wing edges now sported the familiar "dogtooth" design (dogtooth leading edges help in breaking up airflow over high speed wing airfoils and improve stall speeds some) while the forward canard's were part of the aircraft from the beginning and now featured a greater sweep. Strakes were added under the forward fuselage and her avionics suite was upgraded to fit an ELTA M-2001B ranging radar. The cockpit was also overhauled to include an MBT twin-computer flight control system, Elbit S-8600 multi-mode navigation and weapons delivery system, Taman central air data computer, an angle of attack sensor vane (fitted to the portside of the fuselage) and an Israel Electro-Optics HUD (Heads-Up Display).

The TC.2 became the two-seat trainer model based on the C.2. With the addition of the second rear cockpit (student and instructor sat in tandem), the fuselage was lengthened and the nose assembly lowered, the latter improving the front pilot's vision somewhat. In all, 185 C.2s/TC.2s were produced.

The C.2 was powered by a single IAI General Electric (license-built by Bedek) J-79-J1E turbojet engine. Dry thrust output was in the range of 11,890lbs while afterburner produced an output of 18,750lbs. Maximum speed was listed at 1,516 miles per hour with a range of 480 miles. The service ceiling was 58,000 feet with a rate-of-climb nearing 45,930 feet per minute.

The Kfir Tzniut was a dedicated reconnaissance platform of the C.2 production model.

The Kfir C.7 was a highly-developed form of the Kfir family line, becoming the new standard for all previous Kfirs and evolving the aircraft into more of a fighter-bomber mount. The C.7 incorporated a new and more powerful General Electric J79 afterburning turbojet engine providing better thrust output. Avionics were updated and improved and the cockpit was revised to incorporate HOTAS (Hands-On Throttle And Stick), the WDNS-391 weapons delivery and navigation system (for "smart" weapons delivery), Elbit 82 stores management system, video capability and an armament control display panel. In-flight refueling became standard fare (through probe or receptacle) and the maximum take-off weight (MTOW) was increased to 13,415lbs allowing for two additional hardpoints (bringing the total to seven) to be added under the fuselage near the intakes. An Elta E/L-8202 jamming pod could be fitted to the inboard portside wing pylon. An Elisra SPS-200 Rear Warning Radar became standard in later C.7 production models. The C.7 entered service in 1983, becoming the definitive Kfir in the group - not to mention perhaps the most potent evolution of the Dassault Mirage III family.

Performance specifications of the C.7 included a top speed of 1,515 miles per hour (roughly Mach 2.3) with a range of 548 miles. Service ceiling was listed at 58,000 feet with a rate-of-climb equaling 45,866 feet per minute.

The TC.7 was nothing more than a two-seat trainer version based on the C.7 production model. Nearly all C.2s were upgraded to the C.7 standard from 1983 through 1985 and included upgrading TC.2 trainers to the TC.7 trainer standard.

The C.10 was developed as an export version to rid overstock of C.2s and C.7s. The C.10 featured a new cockpit with two large multi-function displays, the in-flight refueling probe, Israeli Elta EL/M 2032 radar under a new nose cone and provisions for external drop tanks. Other remaining Kfir airframes were sold to South Africa to form the basis of their Denel Cheetah C fighters. Another export Kfir became the Kfir 2000 fitting Elbit radar, new avionics and a revised airframe.

Export Kfirs

The TC.10 proved to be the export trainer version of the C.10 and was essentially the export version of the TC.7 trainer. The Kfir C.12 became an upgraded export version of the C.7 production Kfirs and was generally similar to the C.10 sans the Elta radar suite. With US approval, 12 Kfir C.2s were sold to Ecuador in 1982. This delivery also netted a pair of TC.2 trainers. Similarly, 11 Kfir C.2s were sold to Columbia between 1988 and 1989 and included two TC.2 trainers. Sri Lanka became the final export customer of the Kfir with their purchase of eight aircraft.

Kfirs In-Action

Kfirs were first fielded in anger on November 9th, 1977, in a ground strike sortie against targets in Lebanon. Actions, once again in Lebanon, during the campaign of 1982 brought about more Kfir use in the ground attack role though the IAF claimed at least one air-to-air kill over a Syrian Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 "Fishbed" fighter, this made possible by a Kfir C.2.

Ecuadoran Kfirs were used against Peruvian forces in their 1995 territorial dispute, earning the aircraft three confirmed air-to-air kills. Ecuadoran Kfirs are primarily used in the interception and air defense roles but pilots are also trained in multi-role fashion and make up a multi-role air wing. Armament includes the standard pair of DEFA 553 30mm cannons with 125 rounds to a gun as well as the Rafael Shafrir infra-red homing air-to-air missiles. While these Kfirs do not feature the extra pair of hardpoints as found on the C.7, they are still potent enough and cleared for using a variety of conventional ordnance.

Sri Lanka has used their Kfirs against Tamil Tiger rebel targets to good effect.

Conclusion

With the McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagles and General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcons firmly entrenched in the Israeli inventory, the Kfir has since been withdrawn from active status with the IAF. Only some 230 or so Kfirs were believed to have been produced during her production run. Beyond its export use and global derivatives like the South African Denel Cheetah, the Kfir's footprint shrinks with each passing decade.

Miscellaneous

A common invalidated report concerning the Kfir involved J79 Mirage IIICJs with the name of Barak (or "Lightning") but this is thought to be nothing more than hearsay as no definitive evidence of such an aircraft has ever been uncovered. Other related reports place these particular aircraft in the Yom Kippur War of 1973 but, again, these are unsubstantiated claims at the moment.

Text ©2003-2010 www.MilitaryFactory.com • All Rights Reserved • No Reproduction Without Permission • Corrections / Comments to MilitaryFactory at Gmail dot com

spearhead

July 13th, 2010, 01:13 PM

vQV6Y8JSaZw
link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQV6Y8JSaZw)

krBUvzCVneA&feature=related
link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krBUvzCVneA&feature=related)

7N2xvDVI7sM&feature=related
link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N2xvDVI7sM&feature=related)
all credits to the owner

Don't be gullible with that aircraft carrier thing. Boring videos.

Christian_123

July 13th, 2010, 01:24 PM

^^He didn't made the videos, he just posted it. :|

This thread is become a Philippine DREAM Defense force, puro suggestions at "pangarap" na wala rin naman napupuntahan :lol:

Kintoy

July 13th, 2010, 01:43 PM

nagpasikat ang Royal Malaysian Air Force nung F1 (April), nag-flyby ng mga MiG-29 nila:

http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab335/kin_toy/P4045958_3.jpg

http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab335/kin_toy/P4045931_2.jpg

http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab335/kin_toy/P4035058_3.jpg

http://i877.photobucket.com/albums/ab335/kin_toy/P4035078_3.jpg

april boy

July 13th, 2010, 01:49 PM

Ok para hindi dream thread...ayusin na lang ng AFP ang available asset nya.

Yung sa Airforce...alagaan yung soon to be delivered Sokol helicopters.

Alagaan yung brand new SF-260 nila...

Alagaan yung donated na T-41 trainer aircrafts frm South Korea

Alagaan yung refurbished at refitted Hueys

Baka puede pang refurbished ang remaining S-211 at yung yung MD-20 ba yun

Kintoy

July 13th, 2010, 01:52 PM

btw,

Malaysia to phase out troublesome MiG-29 fighters
By Siva Govindasamy (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/06/03/327276/malaysia-to-phase-out-troublesome-mig-29-fighters.html)

Malaysia has announced plans to phase out its RSK MiG-29N fighters over the next few years, with the fleet having been plagued by problems since it bought the type in the early 1990s.

"I have decided that from next month, the aircraft will be phased out and we should find a way to sell them to certain companies or countries approved by the United Nations," Malaysia's new defence minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi told the official Bernama news agency.

The minister did not say what would replace the MiG-29s, which are operated in an interceptor role. The Royal Malaysian Air Force is scheduled to receive its last six of 18 Sukhoi Su-30MKMs by year-end, and already operates eight Boeing F/A-18Ds and 13 BAE Systems Hawk 208s that are used in a light attack role.

Industry sources say Malaysia has encountered problems in obtaining spares for its 14 MiG-29s, and that maintenance has been an issue for a long while. A mid-life upgrade had been mooted as a possible solution to the problems, but sources say it would be cheaper over the long run to buy new fighters instead.

Kuala Lumpur already has a pending requirement for another 18 fighters. Observers believe that it could begin a competition in a few years and assess the Su-30, Boeing F/A-18F Super Hornet and potentially Saab's Gripen. The air force could now ask the defence ministry to increase the number of fighters it buys through this tender to replace the MiG-29s.

One problem, however, is Malaysia's tight defence budget. Last October, the global economic crisis forced it to delay a plan to buy Eurocopter EC725s to replace its army's Sikorsky S-61 "Nuri" utility helicopters.

It has also postponed a plan to buy eight airborne early warning and control system aircraft until the 10th Malaysia Plan, covering 2011-15, or even the subsequent plan, spanning 2016-20. The country also has requirements for maritime patrol aircraft and anti-submarine warfare helicopters.

Brown Tiger

July 13th, 2010, 02:07 PM

SECRET PHILIPPINE AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURER DISPLAYS ITS FIRST LOCALLY MADE FIGHTER JET

Edwin Andres Secret Airbase, Zamboanga City, Philippines
July 13, 2010 (PNA)

Lying underneath the hilly mountain is a mammoth factory kept secret for decades until today its secret is revealed to this reporter. It is the pride of
the Philippine Technology and years of research to be introduced to the modern world. Its manufacturer Brown Tiger Industries which for decades on secret contract with the government has finally roll its first project the XXL fighter plane. (More News to Come in a few days and Watch it flies over Metro Manila)

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/XXL.jpg

kyril

July 13th, 2010, 02:59 PM

^ Do you have any further proof of this? This looks nothing but an april fool's joke.

april boy

July 13th, 2010, 03:21 PM

btw,

Malaysia to phase out troublesome MiG-29 fighters
By Siva Govindasamy (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/06/03/327276/malaysia-to-phase-out-troublesome-mig-29-fighters.html)

Industry sources say Malaysia has encountered problems in obtaining spares for its 14 MiG-29s, and that maintenance has been an issue for a long while. A mid-life upgrade had been mooted as a possible solution to the problems, but sources say it would be cheaper over the long run to buy new fighters instead.

We rather buy cheaper light attack aircrafts than buy second hands.

Nanflexal

July 13th, 2010, 03:24 PM

^ Do you have any further proof of this? This looks nothing but an april fool's joke.
parang good time na naman to hehehe.

mwg12a

July 13th, 2010, 04:07 PM

mrboy

July 13th, 2010, 04:14 PM

Kintoy

July 13th, 2010, 05:27 PM

^^secret nga eh :lol:

manila_eye

July 13th, 2010, 05:37 PM

in fairness ang ganda ang jet. wish ko lang totoo :lol:

spearhead

July 13th, 2010, 06:11 PM

"ZukiChirO"

July 13th, 2010, 06:25 PM

wow pang voltes V ang plane...:D

lochinvar

July 13th, 2010, 11:27 PM

The veracity of this secret plane is hard to believe. Even the Israeli Kfir uses engines they did not developed. This kind of project is hard to hide. Charge to another wishful dreaming.

Arvor

July 14th, 2010, 02:49 AM

I am talking about the Israeli KFIR 2000 not the KFIR that you read about in wikipedia.

I am quite well aware of what the "Kfir" is without having to read anything about it on "wikipedia", this aircraft is simply obsolete no matter what upgrades are made, if the Phillipines is to buy a modern fighter then it must be a new design even if only half a dozen could be acquired and the Gripen is the only real choice, and if the idea is to simply get second hand planes then better get an original mirage 2000 which will be "ITAR" free, furthermore if were going to get one or two kfirs to bomb some rebels then a dozen Super Tucano's would be more efficient, finally the USA will never agree to Israel selling Kfirs to the PAF nor do we need to get entangled with Israel and their shenanigans any way ... .

So for a multitude of reasons the Kfir will never happen in PAF service, i wish you the best tho with your Kfir .

With a very limited budget, buying multi role attack aircrafts is pure day dreaming

Well a joint buy with Thailand of at least a half dozen Gripens is whitin reach and probably the best chance of acquiring advanced fighter craft .

If Malaysia decides to acquire the Gripen then perhaps the whole of ASEAN should copy what the smaller European NATO countries did in the 70's when Belgium, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands made a joint buy of around 350 F16's, in this case with the Gripen being the closest modern inheritor of the F16 ideal meaning reasonably high tech, affordable cheap and easy to maintain and run ( unlike the intended successor JSF ) .

Thailand, Malaysia the Phillipines and perhaps Indonesia if the Korean fighter project is deemed not viable could make a joint buy of a few dozen aircrafts, and hopefully getting a good price out of it whith Saab and Bae probably amenable to get multiple countries in a single deal .

TheAvenger

July 14th, 2010, 05:40 AM

this Defense Thread has become a "Dream thread" or "unbelievable thread"

april boy

July 14th, 2010, 04:21 PM

this Defense Thread has become a "Dream thread" or "unbelievable thread"

Ok here's a news based on reality and not based on pure hallucination:lol:

Philippines airforce to spend $150 mln on upgrade

05 Jul 2010 08:12:13 GMT

Source: Reuters

* Air Force getting combat helicopters, C130, trainer jets

PAF officers with Sokols being made in Poland.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs561.snc3/30683_123794400976598_112719755417396_174290_6643077_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs581.snc3/30683_123794417643263_112719755417396_174292_7286411_n.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r114/pafunixgeek/505/sokol/sokol_site_ins_11.jpg

All pics from Steeljack of Tsikot.com

* Aquino says they are investments for peace and growth

* Army may lease portions of bases to raise funds

By Manny Mogato

MANILA, July 5 (Reuters) - The Philippines will spend about 7 billion pesos ($150 million) on aircraft and surveillance systems to guard the sprawling archipelago and help fight Muslim separatists and Maoist rebels, a senior general said on Monday.

Lieutenant-General Oscar Rabena said the airforce would get 15 combat utility and night-capable helicopters, 10 refurbished UH-1H helicopters, a long-range maritime patrol plane, a refurbished C-130 transport, basic trainer jets and long-range radar systems.

"We have the plans in place for transition from internal security to territorial defence," Rabena told reporters at Villamor Air Base, where a ceremony was held for the 63rd anniversary of the Philippine Air Force.

He said eight combat utility helicopters from Polish company PZL Swidnik, a unit of Anglo-Italian helicopter company Agusta Westland, would be delivered next year.

For more than 40 years, the Philippines' 130,000-member army has been fighting Muslim separatists seeking a homeland in the south of the mainly Catholic state and Maoist-led rebels waging a protracted war to overthrow a democratically-elected government.

At the ceremony, President Benigno Aquino III, the military's commander-in-chief, reiterated his commitment to provide the troops, weapons and equipment needed to end insurgencies and protect the country's territorial integrity. [ID:nSGE66109K]

"I will not make false promises to you or tell you things simply for the sake of making positive headlines," Aquino said, adding a secure and stable country was needed to attract investment that could create jobs.

"That's why they're called investments," Aquino later told reporters of the new equipment, adding the defence department was studying schemes to raise funds outside the annual budget.

"There are creative schemes that will not make the government lose its assets but will be in a position, like a lease, that we can enter into and then fund what we need."

Defence Secretary Voltaire Gazmin told Reuters he had asked the military to make an inventory of available assets, including land that could be leased on a long-term to property developers.

"We have many camps within the capital region that can be leased for a minimum of 50 years. These are prime property that can generate billions of pesos and finance our modernisation programme." (Reporting by Manny Mogato; Editing by John Mair and Ron Popeski)

Kintoy

July 14th, 2010, 04:33 PM

\
ang laki ng beer belly ng opisyal ah

kenken94

July 14th, 2010, 04:48 PM

Dito natin masusubukan ang political will ni P-Noy as Commander-in-Chief ng Philippine Army, Airforce, at Navy.

marxman

July 14th, 2010, 11:05 PM

gmaer

July 15th, 2010, 12:31 AM

With a very limited budget, buying multi role attack aircrafts is pure day dreaming:lol::lol:

And I hope we should stop buying second hand planes and antiques from the US.

WE dont have external threats from neighboring countries and we only need to protect ourselves from poachers, pirates, terrorists and insurgents.

As I have mentioned a new version of S-211 will do for the meantime..

M-311 – Basic Jet Trainer / Light Combat Aircraft, Italy

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/m311trainer/images/2-aermacchi-m311.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/m311trainer/images/1-aermacchi-m311.jpg

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/m311trainer/images/5-aermacchi-m311.jpg

The M-311 is a highly upgraded version of the S-211A, with a new aerodynamic configuration with new wing tips, fences and fuselage ventral fins, a new avionics suite, a strengthened structure and a 30% more powerful engine than the S-211. The first flight was successfully completed in June 2005.

M-311 CONSTRUCTION

The M-311 is an upgraded and strengthened version of the Aermacchi S-211. The strengthened structure and the new landing gear have allowed the fatigue life to be extended to 15,000 flight hours. The stronger airframe provides higher manoeuvrability, allowing evasive or combat manoeuvres to g-limits of +5g to
–2.5g (with stores) and +7g to –3.5g (with no external stores).

M-311 WEAPONS

The aircraft has five stores hardpoints (four underwing and a fuselage centreline hardpoint) and the aircraft can be fitted with a stores management system.

The fuselage centre-line hardpoint can carry a 12.7mm semi-recessed gun pod or other mission pod.

The outer underwing hardpoints can carry loads up to 250kg. The inner underwing points can carry loads up to 300kg. The maximum external load is 1,000kg.

Poachers, pirates, and terrorists are still considered as external threats and also China is a growing threat in the South China Sea.

So for a multitude of reasons the Kfir will never happen in PAF service, i wish you the best tho with your Kfir .

What are you recommending or suggesting?

This is old news but still relevant to prove the fact that the Israeli KFIR 2000 was almost acquired by the Philippines therefore the statement that the Philippines will "NEVER" get the Israeli KFIR 2000 because it is "OBSOLETE" was a biased conclusion...

The Israeli KFIR 2000 - C10 upgrade was designed with the PAF in mind! (http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=2507.0)

Other old news that will vouch this claim...

1. IAI uprates Kfir fighter for new Philippines sales drive (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/1995/03/15/27671/iai-uprates-kfir-fighter-for-new-philippines-sales-drive.html)

2. Philippines interest in Kfir aircraft. (Israel Aircraft Industries contract with Philippines. Air Force) (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb4803/is_199201/ai_n17453507/)

Arvor

July 15th, 2010, 03:07 AM

double post

Arvor

July 15th, 2010, 03:11 AM

therefore the statement that the Philippines will "NEVER" get the Israeli KFIR 2000 because it is "OBSOLETE" was a biased conclusion...

Your quote of my earlier comment :

So for a multitude of reasons the Kfir will never happen in PAF service, i wish you the best tho with your Kfir .

Being obsolete is not the only reason and probably the least likely reason for it not to enter PAF service given its penchant for second hand equipment, if you review my comments however i mentioned a few other reasons amongst them America's ITAR laws which allows it to interfere quite a bit in such sales, case in point being the PAF's attempts to acquire New Zealands A4 Skyhawks which was blocked by the US .

----

What are you recommending or suggesting?

Joint Thai/PAF or ASEAN Gripen buy or alternatively second hand F16's ... .

kalbongdad

July 15th, 2010, 05:42 AM

Ok here's a news based on reality and not based on pure hallucination:lol:

Philippines airforce to spend $150 mln on upgrade

05 Jul 2010 08:12:13 GMT

Source: Reuters

* Air Force getting combat helicopters, C130, trainer jets

PAF officers with Sokols being made in Poland.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs561.snc3/30683_123794400976598_112719755417396_174290_6643077_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs581.snc3/30683_123794417643263_112719755417396_174292_7286411_n.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r114/pafunixgeek/505/sokol/sokol_site_ins_11.jpg

All pics from Steeljack of Tsikot.com

* Aquino says they are investments for peace and growth

* Army may lease portions of bases to raise funds

By Manny Mogato

MANILA, July 5 (Reuters) - The Philippines will spend about 7 billion pesos ($150 million) on aircraft and surveillance systems to guard the sprawling archipelago and help fight Muslim separatists and Maoist rebels, a senior general said on Monday.

Lieutenant-General Oscar Rabena said the airforce would get 15 combat utility and night-capable helicopters, 10 refurbished UH-1H helicopters, a long-range maritime patrol plane, a refurbished C-130 transport, basic trainer jets and long-range radar systems.

"We have the plans in place for transition from internal security to territorial defence," Rabena told reporters at Villamor Air Base, where a ceremony was held for the 63rd anniversary of the Philippine Air Force.

He said eight combat utility helicopters from Polish company PZL Swidnik, a unit of Anglo-Italian helicopter company Agusta Westland, would be delivered next year.

For more than 40 years, the Philippines' 130,000-member army has been fighting Muslim separatists seeking a homeland in the south of the mainly Catholic state and Maoist-led rebels waging a protracted war to overthrow a democratically-elected government.

At the ceremony, President Benigno Aquino III, the military's commander-in-chief, reiterated his commitment to provide the troops, weapons and equipment needed to end insurgencies and protect the country's territorial integrity. [ID:nSGE66109K]

"I will not make false promises to you or tell you things simply for the sake of making positive headlines," Aquino said, adding a secure and stable country was needed to attract investment that could create jobs.

"That's why they're called investments," Aquino later told reporters of the new equipment, adding the defence department was studying schemes to raise funds outside the annual budget.

"There are creative schemes that will not make the government lose its assets but will be in a position, like a lease, that we can enter into and then fund what we need."

Defence Secretary Voltaire Gazmin told Reuters he had asked the military to make an inventory of available assets, including land that could be leased on a long-term to property developers.

"We have many camps within the capital region that can be leased for a minimum of 50 years. These are prime property that can generate billions of pesos and finance our modernisation programme." (Reporting by Manny Mogato; Editing by John Mair and Ron Popeski)

salamat pgma.....:lol: dami talagang accomplishment ng maliit na ale...kahit wala na sa pwesto.....

gmaer

July 15th, 2010, 06:34 AM

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/full-steam-ahead-for-chinas-territorial-ambitions-20100712-107sp.html

Full steam ahead for China's territorial ambitions
July 13, 2010

In a famous maxim, China's late leader Deng Xiaoping urged his countrymen to "hide your brightness, bide your time". That was more than 20 years ago. It now seems China's leaders have finished biding their time.

In an assertive redefinition of its place in the world, China has put the South China Sea into its "core national interest" category of non-negotiable territorial claims - in the same league as Taiwan and Tibet. China has drawn a red line down the map of Asia and defies anyone to cross it.

It brings China into direct conflict with the claims of five neighbours, and challenges the US Navy's dominance of the waters. One-third of all commercial shipping in the world passes through the waters now claimed exclusively by China, the sea bounded by Taiwan in the north, Vietnam in the west, the Philippines in the east and Malaysia and Brunei in the south.

It contains oil and gas fields; some Chinese analysts have dubbed it "Asia's Persian Gulf" for its potential oil wealth and its fractiousness. It is particularly inflammatory because China's government is repudiating its non-binding 2002 agreement with its South-East Asian neighbours to solve territorial disputes through peaceful negotiation.

It's a crisis, but a quiet one. That's mainly because the affronted countries are reacting with wary restraint towards their burgeoning neighbour. Vietnam has pointedly demanded China observe the agreement, but the others have been almost inaudible.

---

Now China can be considered as an external threat!

Joint Thai/PAF or ASEAN Gripen buy or alternatively second hand F16's ... .

What do you mean by joint Thai/PAF or ASEAN Gripen or 2nd hand F16s? To my understanding you want countries in the ASEAN to joint forces to buy Gripens or 2nd hand F16 so that the Philippines can have a share of using these MRFs?

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/16383/jet-purchase-plan-shelved-by-air-force

Jet purchase plan shelved by air force
Commander grumbles about govt budget cuts

* Published: 9/05/2009 at 12:00 AM
* Newspaper section: News

Budget cuts have compelled the air force to shelve its planned purchase of six more Swedish-made Gripen fighters.

As the government decided on Wednesday to slash the defence budget for the next fiscal year from 171 billion to 151 billion baht, the air force had to ditch its plan to order six more Gripen fighter jets worth 15 billion baht, commander Itthaporn Subhawong said.

The air force has already bought six Gripen jets worth 19 billion baht with the planes due for delivery next year.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/PM-seeks-explanation-as-to-why-Thailand-bought-Gri-30133578.html

PM seeks explanation as to why Thailand bought Gripen jet fighters more expensive than Romania

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Monday that he had instructed the Defence Ministry permanent secretary to explain why Thailand bought Gripen jet fighters at much more expensive price than Romania.

Abhisit said he had learnt that Romania bought the jet fighters from Sweden at Bt1.2 billion cheaper than Thailand.

Abhisit said the Defence Ministry permanent secretary would send officials to explain the issue.

Abhisit said it was possible that the Thai deal might include other costs, like training but the officials must come up with an explanation.

---

Now with the 2 news above do you think Thailand would still be able to buy more JAS Gripens for a joint Thai/PAF? Remember that both Thailand and Romania have better economies than the Philippines - the Philippines cannot afford the JAS Gripen and any 2nd hand F16!

FYI: a brand new JAS Gripen cost the same as one 2nd hand F16 or 2-3 Israel KFIR 2000 C-10 MRFs

Brown Tiger

July 15th, 2010, 09:57 AM

nyahahahhaah!!!!

NEW RP SUPER HI-TECH JET FIGHTER TAKES SHAPE..
See Filipino Technicians fabricating the Airframe for this jet.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/XXL-1.jpg

Kintoy

July 15th, 2010, 12:56 PM

Joint Thai/PAF or ASEAN Gripen buy or alternatively second hand F16's ... .

ano parang fractional ownership? six months, Thailand gagamit, tapos after six month dito sa atin?

Arvor

July 15th, 2010, 02:02 PM

What do you mean by joint Thai/PAF or ASEAN Gripen or 2nd hand F16s?

ano parang fractional ownership? six months, Thailand gagamit, tapos after six month dito sa atin?

Well i explained it on my previous post on page 5 :

A joint buy with Thailand of at least a half dozen Gripens is whitin reach and probably the best chance of acquiring advanced fighter craft .

If Malaysia decides to acquire the Gripen then perhaps the whole of ASEAN should copy what the smaller European NATO countries did in the 70's when Belgium, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands made a joint buy of around 350 F16's, in this case with the Gripen being the closest modern inheritor of the F16 ideal meaning reasonably high tech, affordable cheap and easy to maintain and run ( unlike the intended successor JSF ) .

Thailand, Malaysia the Phillipines and perhaps Indonesia if the Korean fighter project is deemed not viable could make a joint buy of a few dozen aircrafts, and hopefully getting a good price out of it whith Saab and Bae probably amenable to get multiple countries in a single deal .

In the 1970's 4 European Nato countries collectively ordered a few hundred F16's each country had its own total numbers ordered they simply grouped togheter their buy to create economies of scale and thereby get a good deal :

In the late 1970s, Belgium, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands started looking for a replacement for the F-104 Starfighter. These four nations, known as the European Participating Air Forces (EPAF), became the first international customers for the F-16. Together with the US, they started a unique multi-national development program for the F-16. Under the terms of the agreement, F-16 Fighting Falcons for the EPAF nations were to be produced locally.

Belgium was one of two EPAF nations responsible for the European production of F-16s (the other one being the Netherlands). The primary Belgian contractor in the F-16 program was the Societe Anonyme Belge de Constructions Aeronautiques (SABCA), responsible for the final assembly of F-16s intended for both Belgian and Danish service, The F100 engines for the F-16s of all four nations in the European consortium were manufactured by the Belgian Fabrique National.(now Techspace Aero). The Belgian company MBLE produced the F-16 radar for three of the four EPAF nations.

The EPAF consortium funded, developed and produced an initial 348 F-16s, with an eventual total of 524, for their respective air forces. SABCA even produced 3 F-16s for the US Air Force

Belgium ordered a total of 160 F-16s.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_users_article2.html

Of course SEATO is dead and ASEAN members usually only have strong bilateral military relations with the US and other western countries but unfortunetely not much amongst themselves, so replicating the 4 Nato countries buy would be difficult but not beyond reach, an offset formula can probably be found amongst the joint buyers with Indonesia assembling the total purchase while in return buying an equivalent value in goods and services from the other nations if Indonesia is not interested then someone else in the joint purchase group can perform the assembly .

The benefits of doing a joint buy is simply for negotiating purposes with the manufacturer, these numbers and the PR coup of selling Gripens to multiple countries could be worth some price reductions, but if the partner nations are bold enough other benefits could be joint logistics and maintenance keeping costs down, it does not mean however that they will share the planes like a ponzi scheme or time share ... .

If not brand new Sweden is likely to decomission dozens of gripens in the coming years due to budget cuts again the Gripen provides the best opportunity for a top of the line fighter .

----

Now with the 2 news above do you think Thailand would still be able to buy more JAS Gripens for a joint Thai/PAF?

Those are actually great news as it postpones their buy giving the Phillipines time to still make a deal with Thailand if our government is smart enough to think about it, on the Thai side the budget slash would make them more likely to accept partnership or to enter a joint buy if it is able to reduce the overall cost .

PM seeks explanation as to why Thailand bought Gripen jet fighters more expensive than Romania

Actually Romania has not yet bought the Gripen and the Thais dont need to send any envoys i can tell them why lol ...

The US was peddling F16's for political and other geostrategic reasons to Romania while SAAB is eager to find new customers for the Gripen and is calling the Romanians bluff by pricing the Gripens they are offering at the same price as the American F16's thereby offering Romania aircraft that are better than F16's at a cheaper price its now down to politics ... .

----

http://uscaero77.free.fr/_avion/gripen/gripen.jpg

It is for these same reasons that SAAB could become more amenable to lower costs for a joint buy aside from the numbers bought the "PR coup" alone that it will provide the Gripen program in view of other larger more lucrative competitions such as those of India and Brazil could make it worthwhile for them .

It is now up to ASEAN countries to figure out this great opportunity for themselves, anyway if not for the Gripen they could apply the same philosophies on procuring other expensive arms jointly with some sort of "common ASEAN arms procurement agency" .

----

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So far these are the only relatively clear video ive found of the Polish helicopter .

gmaer

July 15th, 2010, 10:58 PM

^ It would be impossible for Thailand, Malaysia, the Phillipines, and Indonesia to joint forces to buy your JAS Gripens due to conflict of interest. The Philippines has a history of territorial disputes and conflicts against Malaysia and Indonesa over the Sabah issue and the more popular Spratly Islands. In fact, during the Marcos regime, the Philippine Navy and the Philippine Air Force were modernized by acquiring more frigates/corvettes and F5/F8 fighter jets in preparation for an all-out war against Malaysia.

Arvor

July 16th, 2010, 12:13 AM

gmaer

July 16th, 2010, 01:23 AM

The Phillipines does not have those issues with Indonesia and Thailand and i doubt that either Malaysia or the Phillipines is intent on going to war over Sabah anytime soon so altho there are issues with Malaysia its not enough to derail an ASEAN buy .

The AFP is modernizing itself to defend and protect its own sovereignty. The Philippines cannot afford to spend for another country's defense when in fact it is having a hard time to spend for its own defense which is why the Philippines has a mutual defense treaty with the United States.

This US mutual defense treaty to the Philippines donated a USS Cyclone-class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cyclone_(PC-1)) patrol ship to the Philippine Navy. The only expense the PN made was extending the stern to support a deck ramp for RHIBs and future plans to upgrade the main gun which is too small for a ship that size. The USS Cyclone-class renamed the BRP Mariano Alvarez is the only modern warship in the Philippine Navy fleet that can stay longer in the open rough seas.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2f/PC-1_2.jpg/220px-PC-1_2.jpg

spearhead

July 16th, 2010, 01:46 AM

Canada is building 2 new supplies ships to replace the old ones. The philippines should take a look at this progress and inspect the old ones for possible acquisition:

Canadian Navy supply ships to be replaced (http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/07/14/government-shipbuilding-strategy.html)

Defence minister promises 'boom time' for Canadian shipbuilding
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2010/07/14/tp-supply-ship-cp-1635215.jpg
Canadian navy supply ship HMCS Preserver sits at berth in Halifax in July 2006. (Andrew Vaughan/Canadian Press)

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/07/14/government-shipbuilding-strategy.html#ixzz0tnWCKWSn

The federal government's plan to purchase at least two new joint support ships to replace the navy's aging supply vessels is "back on track and moving ahead," Defence Minister Peter MacKay says.

MacKay, alongside Public Works Minister Rona Ambrose and Industry Minister Tony Clement, announced the $2.6-billion plan to build the joint support ships, with an option for a third vessel, at a news conference on Wednesday in Halifax.

The announcement comes after the government shelved a similar plan in 2008 to construct three navy supply ships and some coastal patrol boats because of defence contractors' problems with meeting the specifications under the government's budget.

Once built, the new ships will increase the navy's ability to respond to humanitarian disasters such as the Haiti earthquake six months ago, MacKay said.

The two shipyards have yet to be selected, but MacKay said the vessels will be built in Canada and produce high-level jobs from the project and spinoff contracts.

"We're making a new commitment to building our new ships at home," he said. "This is going to be a boom time for shipbuilding throughout Atlantic Canada."

The navy has been struggling to keep its existing 1960s vintage replenishment ships in the water. HMCS Preserver and Protecteur were expected to reach the end of their service life between 2010 and 2012

Since 2006, Ottawa has had plans to build 28 large ships over the next several decades, at a cost of more than $33 billion, as well as more than 100 smaller ships.

But MacKay would not give a definitive delivery date for the ships, saying it takes time to complete the procurement process and construction.

"You can't buy these ships at Canadian Tire," he said.

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/07/14/government-shipbuilding-strategy.html#ixzz0tnW6iQuH

gmaer

July 16th, 2010, 02:42 AM

^ Nice find! According to DND shopping around for heavy weapons, trucks (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=581153&publicationSubCategoryId=63), the Philippine Navy is procuring two new MVRs (multi-role vessels) at P5 billion each either from Singapore or South Korea (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=575688&publicationSubCategoryId=63).

Recent Philippine Navy modernization acquisitions:

1. May 2009, The PN inaugurated 3 newly-acquired Multi-Purpose Attack Crafts in its 111th Anniversary Celebration.

2. Cyclone-class patrol ship donated from the U.S. Navy in March 2004 and renamed as BRP Mariano Alvarez (PS-38).

3. Peacock-class patrol corvettes bought from the British Royal Navy - Hong Kong Squadron in August 1997 at a "goodwill price" and re-designated as the Emilio Jacinto class corvettes.

Arvor

July 16th, 2010, 03:44 AM

The Philippines cannot afford to spend for another country's defense when in fact it is having a hard time to spend for its own defense

You dont seem to get the whole purpose of economies of scale ... .

gmaer

July 16th, 2010, 05:15 AM

You dont seem to get the whole purpose of economies of scale ... .

Yes I don't because what you are trying to propose is impossible... SEATO is dead! :banana:

Moving forward... I would like to skip the MRF talks for the meanwhile as I wait for someone to criticize anew the capabilities of the IAI KFIR 2000 C10 as the best low cost MRF solution for the PAF since this Philippine Star news report - DND shopping around for heavy weapons, trucks (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=581153&publicationSubCategoryId=63) tells us that the Philippine Air Force is eyeing either Canada or France for their next fighter jet acquisition with the Canadian CF18 as the possible candidate.

The Philippine Army's latest armor acquisition...

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m109/40niner_com/Armor/ACV/Commissioning4a.jpg

I apologize if the 6 PA ACV-300s was a repost.

Arvor

July 16th, 2010, 01:40 PM

the DND is also looking at Canada or France for the acquisition of fighter jets, which the Air Force also needs.

“For now only Canada has a funding scheme for us if we are going to purchase fighter jets from them,” Romero said.

Like i said before why get a copy when there's plenty of original Dassault mirage and 2000's out there which are now relatively cheap while providing "operational sovereignty" meaning no American interference in the way or against whom the aircraft is used, its yet more reason why the Kfir is unlikely .

If they go with Canada they will recieve f18's but those planes are getting old .

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-3ZPDX68_Dg&hl=en_GB&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-3ZPDX68_Dg&hl=en_GB&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Mirage 2000

ryxies27

July 16th, 2010, 01:53 PM

NEW RP SUPER HI-TECH JET FIGHTER TAKES SHAPE..
See Filipino Technicians fabricating the Airframe for this jet.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/XXL-1.jpg

I hope we could get more sources about this plane.. :bash:

Kintoy

July 16th, 2010, 02:40 PM

The Phillipines does not have those issues with Indonesia and Thailand and i doubt that either Malaysia or the Phillipines is intent on going to war over Sabah anytime soon so altho there are issues with Malaysia its not enough to derail an ASEAN buy .

your proposal is unrealistic and sophomoric. Why would we want to co-own fighter planes with another country? Do you even think Thailand would want this?

Bangkok is like 2500 km away. Do you expect the planes to fly that distance a few times a year just so it would change hands?

Kintoy

July 16th, 2010, 02:43 PM

marxman

July 16th, 2010, 05:48 PM

NEW RP SUPER HI-TECH JET FIGHTER TAKES SHAPE..
See Filipino Technicians fabricating the Airframe for this jet.

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/XXL-1.jpg

nyahahahaha!!! still..... nyahahaha... ill stop laughing if that thing actually flies... nyahahaa...

ryxies27

July 16th, 2010, 05:53 PM

^^ :bash:

AFP modernization, what’s the score?
July 16, 2010 12:01 pm

(First of a 2-part article)

MANILA, July 15 -– The Philippines was second to none in military might among countries in Southeast Asia, but that was long, long time ago.
Today, by twist of fate, the Philippines found itself at the bottom, gasping for breath trying to save whatever it could on its remaining aging aircraft and warships in its arsenal.

What a pitiful sight, considering that shortly after World War II, the Armed Forces of the Philippines was the envy of many neighboring nations as the AFP had on its inventory an array of modern weapons supplied by the United States – the F-86 Sabre jet-fighter bombers, a variety of aircraft, including C-123 transport planes, C-47s, for the Philippine Air Force, and several frigates, patrol ships, fast patrol crafts, landing ship tanks, armored vehicles, tanks, to name a few for the Philippine Navy.

In the 1950s, the PAF had in its arsenal more than 80 F-86 fighter planes and a fleet of transport helicopters. The PAF was really a force to reckon with.

By 1965, the Air Force received 25 brand-new supersonic F-5A/B fighter planes from America as part of the RP-US Military Assistance Program.

The Philippines was one of the first recipients of the F-5s “Freedom Fighters” among the U.S. allies the world over. In addition, the PAF also got over 140 UH-1H “Huey” helicopters, further boosting its air power.

Its foot soldiers were armed with the sophisticated weapons available at that time such as M1 Garand rifles, automatic Carbine rifles, Browning Automatic Rifles (BAR), Thompson sub-machine guns, bazookas, howitzers and many more. Name it, the AFP had it.

Throughout the 1960s, the Philippines was on top in terms of air and naval power. The PAF had about 100 jet fighter-bombers as its first line of defense in guarding the country’s airspace while the Philippine Navy had close to 200 warships of various types.

By 1970, the AFP started to draw up a modernization program in anticipation of its air and naval assets to be phased out in the years to come.

However, before the modernization program could take off, the Mindanao secessionist war erupted in 1973. The AFP was at the forefront of the fighting. Many of its assets were destroyed. Replacements were in order.

In 1979, the PAF got a squadron of F-8 Crusader fighter-bombers from the United States as part of the RP-US Military Assistance Program. The F-8s and the F-5s formed the first line of defense for the AFP.

The F-8s were in service for only a decade as the Air Force decided to phase out the aircraft because the Crusaders consumed too much gas, according to Maj. Gen. Jose Toy E. Villarete, AFP Deputy Chief of Staff for Plans (J-5).

Villarete, an F-5 fighter pilot with over 3,000 hours flying time, said that the F-8, which is carrier-based aircraft, was very expensive to maintain “because we have to dump all the aviation gas before we could land.”

In the late 1980s, the PAF got 30 S-211 jet trainers from Italy. The delivery was a big boost to the Air Force’s training program of future pilots.

Almost at the same time, the Air Force received 25 MG-500 attack helicopters it ordered from the United States. The PAF also purchased a fleet of Bell Transport helicopters.

But over the years, due to wear and tear, the PAF’s air assets continued to deplete.

On the other hand, the Philippine Navy is also in a sorry state. Most of its warships are of World War II vintage.

Considering that the Philippines is an archipelagic country, the Navy badly needs ships to patrol the vast territorial waters the coastline of which is more than twice as long as that of the United States.

Yet, it has no new vessels and is forced to maintain aging warships to secure the country’s territorial waters.

In 1990, Defense reporters were invited by the Navy to ride one of its warships — the BRP Quezon.

The vessel left the Navy’s headquarters at Roxas Boulevard and was bound for Sangley Point in Cavite City. But it took more than four hours to reach its destination, prompting a reporter to say that it was faster for a man to walk briskly to negotiate the distance in an hour than to take the dilapidated and slow-moving Navy ship.

Twenty years had passed since then, but still the Philippine Navy has no new ships to replace its aging ones which were long destined to the scraps, while the Philippine Air Force has no fighter aircraft to speak of after its F-5 planes were retired in 2004.

It may be recalled that in 1995, Congress enacted Republic Act No. 7898, otherwise known as the AFP Modernization Act.

Congress has allocated P331 billion for a 15-year AFP Modernization Program.
However, only P30 billion had been used to acquire new equipment for the military. The remaining P300 billion is still up in the air. (PNA Feature) :ohno:

ryxies27

July 16th, 2010, 06:15 PM

Philippines Airforce To Spend $150 Mln On Upgrade

The Philippines will spend about 7 billion pesos ($150 million) on aircraft and surveillance systems to guard the sprawling archipelago and help fight Muslim separatists and Maoist rebels, a senior general said on Monday.

Lieutenant-General Oscar Rabena said the airforce would get 15 combat utility and night-capable helicopters, 10 refurbished UH-1H helicopters, a long-range maritime patrol plane, a refurbished C-130 transport, basic trainer jets and long-range radar systems.

“We have the plans in place for transition from internal security to territorial defence,” Rabena told reporters at Villamor Air Base, where a ceremony was held for the 63rd anniversary of the Philippine Air Force.

He said eight combat utility helicopters from Polish company PZL Swidnik, a unit of Anglo-Italian helicopter company Agusta Westland, would be delivered next year.

For more than 40 years, the Philippines’ 130,000-member army has been fighting Muslim separatists seeking a homeland in the south of the mainly Catholic state and Maoist-led rebels waging a protracted war to overthrow a democratically-elected government.

At the ceremony, President Benigno Aquino III, the military’s commander-in-chief, reiterated his commitment to provide the troops, weapons and equipment needed to end insurgencies and protect the country’s territorial integrity.

“I will not make false promises to you or tell you things simply for the sake of making positive headlines,” Aquino said, adding a secure and stable country was needed to attract investment that could create jobs.

“That’s why they’re called investments,” Aquino later told reporters of the new equipment, adding the defence department was studying schemes to raise funds outside the annual budget.

“There are creative schemes that will not make the government lose its assets but will be in a position, like a lease, that we can enter into and then fund what we need.”

Defence Secretary Voltaire Gazmin told Reuters he had asked the military to make an inventory of available assets, including land that could be leased on a long-term to property developers. (RTRS) :) :yes:

Arvor

July 16th, 2010, 10:49 PM

your proposal is unrealistic and sophomoric. Why would we want to co-own fighter planes with another country? Do you even think Thailand would want this?

Bangkok is like 2500 km away. Do you expect the planes to fly that distance a few times a year just so it would change hands?

I am quite aware that joint ownership of aircraft assets that exists in the west and NATO in particular such as NATO's awacs and certain C17's or the European Unions growing unified military institutions is unlikely in a hopelessly divided ASEAN and East Asia ... .

My answer is therefor no to everything youve just mentioned since i never said anything about co ownership of any aircraft !, indeed i already have specifically pointed this out to you and at length in an earlier post .

Post 113
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1166655&page=6

gmaer

July 17th, 2010, 12:47 AM

tama na yung pagbili ng okay-okay or wagwag. dun na bumili sa tulad ng Poland, mura, sulit at bago

Poland does not have its own shipyard for building warships. They buy their warships from other countries like the United States (Oliver Hazard Perry-class frigate), Russia (Tarantul-class corvette), and from other European countries (Gawron-class corvette).

---

There are a lot of media errors in this news report that needs to be corrected...

By 1965, the Air Force received 25 brand-new supersonic F-5A/B fighter planes from America as part of the RP-US Military Assistance Program.

The Northrop F-5 Freedom Fighter is not supersonic because it can only meet Mach 1.6, an aircraft to be considered supersonic should be able to reach at least Mach 2.

Throughout the 1960s, the Philippines was on top in terms of air and naval power. The PAF had about 100 jet fighter-bombers as its first line of defense in guarding the country’s airspace while the Philippine Navy had close to 200 warships of various types.

The Philippine Air Force never had 100 jet fighter-bombers and the Philippine Navy never had 200 warships.

Almost at the same time, the Air Force received 25 MG-500 attack helicopters it ordered from the United States.

It is the MG-520 attack helicopter.

Yet, it has no new vessels and is forced to maintain aging warships to secure the country’s territorial waters.

Twenty years had passed since then, but still the Philippine Navy has no new ships to replace its aging ones which were long destined to the scraps,

The USS Cyclone-class (BRP Mariano Alvarez) and the British Royal Navy Peacock-class (BRP Emilio Jacinto, BRP Apolinario Mabini, and BRP Artemio Ricarte) are the newest warships in the Philippine Navy fleet.

Brown Tiger

July 17th, 2010, 01:46 AM

There are a lot of media errors in this news report that needs to be corrected...

The Northrop F-5 Freedom Fighter is not supersonic because it can only meet Mach 1.6, an aircraft to be considered supersonic should be able to reach at least Mach 2.

The Philippine Air Force never had 100 jet fighter-bombers and the Philippine Navy never had 200 warships.

It is the MG-520 attack helicopter.

The USS Cyclone-class (BRP Mariano Alvarez) and the British Royal Navy Peacock-class (BRP Emilio Jacinto, BRP Apolinario Mabini, and BRP Artemio Ricarte) are the newest warships in the Philippine Navy fleet.

ANG BRP MARIANO ALVAREZ

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/brp1.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/brp2.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/brp3.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/brp4.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/brp5.jpg

gmaer

July 17th, 2010, 02:02 AM

I am quite aware that joint ownership of aircraft assets that exists in the west and NATO in particular such as NATO's awacs and certain C17's or the European Unions growing unified military institutions is unlikely in a hopelessly divided ASEAN and East Asia ... .

My answer is therefor no to everything youve just mentioned since i never said anything about co ownership of any aircraft !, indeed i already have specifically pointed this out to you and at length in an earlier post .

You want this joint buy so that the Philippines can have its own JAS Gripen? Impossible indeed as no ASEAN country will spend for this way!

FYI: Buying a fighter jet is not all about cost but also if the fighter jet fits the Philippine Air Force's requirements and the Philippine's immediate and independent defense of its territorial interest.

Brown Tiger

July 17th, 2010, 02:02 AM

Ang BRP Emilio Jacinto, BRP Apolinario Mabini, and BRP Artemio Ricarte )Side by Side)

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/BRP.jpg

gmaer

July 17th, 2010, 02:05 AM

ANG BRP MARIANO ALVAREZ
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/brp3.jpg

Where did you get this picture? This appears to be ship-based missile launchers which the Philippine Navy does not have! The location does not even look like the Philippines and the warship in the background is not a PN warship (the flag looks like Canada). Is this a hoax?

Brown Tiger

July 17th, 2010, 02:18 AM

INDONESIAN NAVY VESSELS

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/ina3.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/ina2.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/ina1.jpg

MALAYSIAN NAVY

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/mal1.jpg

Brown Tiger

July 17th, 2010, 02:32 AM

SINGAPORE NAVY

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/sing%20navy/sing2.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/sing%20navy/sing1.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/sing%20navy/sing3.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/sing%20navy/sing4.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/sing%20navy/sing5.jpg

Brown Tiger

July 17th, 2010, 02:40 AM

ROYAL THAI NAVY

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/THAI%20NAVY/THA1.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/THAI%20NAVY/THA3.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/THAI%20NAVY/THA2.jpg

Brown Tiger

July 17th, 2010, 02:57 AM

VIETNAM NAVY

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/VIET%20NAVY/VIET2.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/VIET%20NAVY/VIET1.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/VIET%20NAVY/VIET3.jpg

gmaer

July 17th, 2010, 03:21 AM

How are these foreign navies' guided missile warships related to Philippine Defense Forces?

Arvor

July 17th, 2010, 03:33 AM

You want this joint buy so that the Philippines can have its own JAS Gripen? Impossible indeed as no ASEAN country will spend for this way!

FYI: Buying a fighter jet is not all about cost but also if the fighter jet fits the Philippine Air Force's requirements and the Philippine's immediate and independent defense of its territorial interest.

I explained it as the best way of acquiring a modern fighter as for its feasability its a question of diplomacy ... .

As for requirements that comment is vague .

The Northrop F-5 Freedom Fighter is not supersonic because it can only meet Mach 1.6, an aircraft to be considered supersonic should be able to reach at least Mach 2.

The answer lies in the word itself "super" ( above or greater ) and "sonic" ( Sound ) therefor anything that fly up to a certain speed beyond mach 1 is "supersonic" .

Dr_Joe

July 17th, 2010, 04:22 AM

Philippine Navy

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/lcs-a.jpg

gmaer

July 17th, 2010, 05:28 AM

As for requirements that comment is vague .

I don't think so... The Philippine Air Force rejected the DND's plan to acquire AH-1 Cobra attack helicopters from Israeli because it did not meet their requirements. Do you want a supporting article to this claim?

The answer lies in the word itself "super" ( above or greater ) and "sonic" ( Sound ) therefor anything that fly up to a certain speed beyond mach 1 is "supersonic" .

Supersonic is twice the speed of sound whereas Mach 1 is equivalent to the speed of sound therefore an aircraft should have the capability to reach at least Mach 2 in order for it to be classified as supersonic like the IAI KFIR 2000 C10.

Philippine Navy

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/lcs-a.jpg

That is not a Philippine Navy warship :ohno:

Brown Tiger

July 17th, 2010, 05:54 AM

How are these foreign navies' guided missile warships related to Philippine Defense Forces?

SO THAT'S OUR GOVERNMENT, MILITARY AND POLITICIANS KNOWS HOW MUCH WE ARE LEFT BEHIND BY OUR ASEAN NEIGHBORS IN TERMS OF NAVAL POWER..
VERY SIMPLE IS IT??..... AGREE????
YOU SHOULD.....

gmaer

July 17th, 2010, 05:58 AM

SO THAT'S OUR GOVERNMENT, MILITARY AND POLITICIANS KNOWS HOW MUCH WE ARE LEFT BEHIND BY OUR ASEAN NEIGHBORS IN TERMS OF NAVAL POWER..
VERY SIMPLE IS IT??..... AGREE????
YOU SHOULD.....

Ahh so your pictures were supposed to envy the Philippine Navy? Not good! :ohno:

Brown Tiger

July 17th, 2010, 06:34 AM

Ahh so your pictures were supposed to envy the Philippine Navy? Not good! :ohno:

Nope, the intention is to wakeup our defense organization and leaders to find ways to be at far with our neighbors in naval power by acquiring modern ships thru real modernization not only in words but on actions, we still have a long way but I hope Noynoy can achieve this for 6 years of good leadership, we have to have a strong navy to match our neighbors even in times of peace to deter any terrorist and brings pride for every filipinos.

zubuwood

July 17th, 2010, 08:23 AM

IsaRic

July 17th, 2010, 09:55 AM

...wake up our defense organization and leaders to find ways to be at *PAR*

fixed...

Arvor

July 17th, 2010, 02:08 PM

Do you want a supporting article to this claim?

No thanks i dont need your articles i was refering to "your" comment which was "vague" .

----

Supersonic is twice the speed of sound

False, words have meaning and you cant just change a definition because you feel like it, the definition of supersonic is simply faster than the speed of sound up to a certain degree this means anything over mach 1 or around 1300 km/h through mach 4 .

Etymology: Latin super- + sonus sound
of, being, or relating to speeds from one to five times the speed of sound in air

The ww2 and immediate postwar jet fighters of the first generation such as the PAF's F86 Sabre were "transonic" aircraft, while the F5 and vietnam era 2nd gen fighters were usually "supersonic" .

Northrup Grummans website :
The F-5 is an agile, highly maneuverable, reliable supersonic fighter, combining advanced aerodynamic design, engine performance and low operating costs. More than 2,600 were built by Northrop Grumman and under co-production and licensing agreements with Canada, the Republic of China, the Republic of Korea, Spain and Switzerland.
http://www.as.northropgrumman.com/products/f5tiger/index.html

kalbongdad

July 17th, 2010, 02:50 PM

I hope we could get more sources about this plane.. :bash:

more like a mock up for a car not a plane....parang yung pangsali sa solar powered car race.... don't be fooled...:lol:

marxman

July 17th, 2010, 05:53 PM

correct...... the world isn't too peaceful at this very edge, now there are rumors that North and South Koreas would wage war against each other any soon and the worst scenario would be another WORLD WAR.. How will the Philippines defend its territory?

dont worry our politicians will do an under the table deal with any aggressor country... we'll be safe for sure...

kenken94

July 17th, 2010, 07:57 PM

^ And will just come crying for help from it's UNCLE SAM............:lol::ohno::lol:

Kintoy

July 17th, 2010, 08:58 PM

I am quite aware that joint ownership of aircraft assets that exists in the west and NATO in particular such as NATO's awacs and certain C17's or the European Unions growing unified military institutions is unlikely in a hopelessly divided ASEAN and East Asia ... .

My answer is therefor no to everything youve just mentioned since i never said anything about co ownership of any aircraft !, indeed i already have specifically pointed this out to you and at length in an earlier post .

Philippines and Thailand is not exactly NATO. so what do you mean by joint purchase? sabay bibili? what's the point in that? do you think the manufacturer would just give discounts just because 2 countries timed their purchases together?

gmaer

July 18th, 2010, 11:18 PM

Nope, the intention is to wakeup our defense organization and leaders to find ways to be at far with our neighbors in naval power by acquiring modern ships thru real modernization not only in words but on actions, we still have a long way but I hope Noynoy can achieve this for 6 years of good leadership, we have to have a strong navy to match our neighbors even in times of peace to deter any terrorist and brings pride for every filipinos.

Terrorists don't use ships but fast boats so to deter terrorists the navy needs fast attack patrol crafts and maritime patrol planes/helicopters. You bring pride to the nation through guided missile warships? A warship can be considered modern even without missiles. The BRP Mariano Alvarez and BRP Emilio Jacinto are modern warships but they don't have guided missiles.

correct...... the world isn't too peaceful at this very edge, now there are rumors that North and South Koreas would wage war against each other any soon and the worst scenario would be another WORLD WAR.. How will the Philippines defend its territory?

Simple... by diplomatic means - peace talks and keeping a neutral state. Do you want bloodshed? You cannot talk peace and have a gun. The 2nd Korean War will only happen if North Korea is punished for the incident but the United Nations did not sanction them!

Brown Tiger

July 19th, 2010, 01:08 AM

Terrorists don't use ships but fast boats so to deter terrorists the navy needs fast attack patrol crafts and maritime patrol planes/helicopters. You bring pride to the nation through guided missile warships? A warship can be considered modern even without missiles. The BRP Mariano Alvarez and BRP Emilio Jacinto are modern warships but they don't have guided missiles.

Simple... by diplomatic means - peace talks and keeping a neutral state. Do you want bloodshed? You cannot talk peace and have a gun. The 2nd Korean War will only happen if North Korea is punished for the incident but the United Nations did not sanction them!

Then you Allow our Ships like Shooting Ducks Targets Practice for Missile Guided Ships of Say, Malaysia, Vietnam or China Just in Case War broke out in the Spratlys.. ( Say as a scenario: We discovered a huge oil & gas deposit in an area in Palawan and these countries want to share these areas and we don't agree) what if they create troubles, Can you defend our sovereignty?

april boy

July 19th, 2010, 01:20 AM

gmaer

July 19th, 2010, 04:12 AM

Then you Allow our Ships like Shooting Ducks Targets Practice for Missile Guided Ships of Say, Malaysia, Vietnam or China Just in Case War broke out in the Spratlys.. ( Say as a scenario: We discovered a huge oil & gas deposit in an area in Palawan and these countries want to share these areas and we don't agree) what if they create troubles, Can you defend our sovereignty?

The 76mm Oto Melara guns of the 3 BRP Emilio Jacinto-class corvettes are capable of shooting down missiles and aircraft other than surface targets. What is the purpose of ASEAN when its member countries are at war to each other? It is the ASEAN that stopped the pending all-out war between the Philippines (during the Marcos regime) vs. Malaysia. You argue too much but can you back your claims with credible evidence? Please support your pictures with acquisition cost and how the Philippine Navy can acquire your dream warships. Your post will be much helpful if you can provide this kind of information.

Also you have not answered my question as to where did you get the picture that shows a missile launcher that you associated with the BRP Mariano Alvarez. The same picture that has a Canadian warship in the background.

FYI: There is no such thing as a "Missile Guided Ship" nor a "Shooting Duck"

---

BRP Gen. Emilio Aguinaldo-class patrol boat - the only Philippine made naval vessel...

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m109/40niner_com/Warships/scan0034.jpg

http://s885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/tarugo123/scan0070.jpg

http://s885.photobucket.com/albums/ac58/tarugo123/scan0073.jpg

Brown Tiger

July 19th, 2010, 07:46 AM

Top Secret Purchase (from PhilippineNavy Tripod), Will be Docked at Sangley Point complete with mosquito nets (very special, so valuable)

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/f11.jpg

ryxies27

July 19th, 2010, 08:13 AM

Brown Tiger

July 19th, 2010, 09:13 AM

NEWS ALERT FROM QTV-11

One S211 of the PAF Crashed in Capas Tarlac while on Training. The 2 Pilots Ejected safely (at least gumagana pa yung ejection seat hehe..) Only 2 remaining S211 are Grounded.

Therefore... Wala na tayong Jet Interceptor/Defender sa ating Kalawakan...
Tsk..Tsk..Tsk... Kawawa naman tayo..

diz

July 19th, 2010, 09:19 AM

^^ Dude. Stop posting crap. Jeez.

I meant the previous post.

Kintoy

July 19th, 2010, 09:23 AM

follow ur own advice dude ^^

diz

July 19th, 2010, 09:25 AM

^^ :lol: keep it in the original threads. :) it seems though, you have a personal grudge against me, do you not? i can't say the same to you. :)

Kintoy

July 19th, 2010, 09:26 AM

dont flatter urself

diz

July 19th, 2010, 09:26 AM

and how did i do that?

Manila-X

July 19th, 2010, 10:06 AM

Air Force training plane crashes in Tarlac, pilots unhurt
By Katherine Evangelista, Abigail Kwok
INQUIRER.net

An Air Force training craft crashed in Tarlac Monday morning, but its pilot and co-pilot were unhurt, the Philippine Air Force said.

In a text message sent to reporters, Philippine Air Force (PAF) spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Miguel Okol said the AS-211 training aircraft with tail number 024 crashed at the vicinity of the Intensive Military Training Area 1, in Santiago, Conception, Tarlac at 11:08 a.m. Monday.

“The aircraft impacted a sugar cane field and did not pose any danger to lives or property,” Okol said.

He said the aircraft has been in the inventory of Air Defense Wing (ADW) since 1990, Okol said.

ADW is based in Basa Air Base in Floridablanca, Pampanga, west of this Pampanga capital.

The pilot and co-pilot, Major Wilfredo Donato and First Lieutenant Jose Wilbert Leonides Martinez respectively, were unhurt as they were able to eject themselves from the aircraft prior to the crash and landed safely.

The two pilots were airlifted to Clark Airbase at around 11:45 a.m., and are undergoing routine medical check-up at the Air Force City hospital, the military spokesman added.

Okol described Donato as “seasoned instructor.”

He has no immediate information if this was the first AS-211 that crashed in the last 15 years.

Over the same period, less than 10 aircraft on local training missions or war games with the United States military encountered accidents, killing at least two PAF pilots.

General Oscar Rabena, Air Force Commander Lieutenant, has ordered the creation of an investigation team to determine the cause of the accident, Okol said.

All PAF AS-211 aircrafts will remain grounded pending the results of investigation

Igsuonnimo

July 19th, 2010, 10:21 AM

From The Daily Tribune

SBMA donates land for police school (http://www.tribuneonline.org/business/20100719bus4.html)

By Ayen Infante

07/19/2010

The Subic Bay Metropolitan Authority (SBMA) has donated a 1.8-hectare space for a P14-million world-class police training facility that is expected to improve the quality of the country’s police force.

President Aquino attended the inauguration rites of the training facility last week in his first visit at the freeport zone as the highest official of the land.

Aquino, who flew into Subic via the presidential helicopter, arrived at the Subic Bay International Airport and then motored a short distance to the Naval Magazine area where the Philippine National Police School for Values and Leadership (PNP-SVL) is located.

Aquino was welcomed at the airport by PNP Director General Jesus Verzosa, Interior Secretary Jesus Robredo, SBMA Chairman Feliciano Salonga, SBMA Administrator Armand Arreza, Zambales Gov. Hermogenes Ebdane Jr., Bataan Gov. Enrique Garcia, and Olongapo City’s first lady Anne Gordon.

In his speech, the President stressed the importance of a strong police force, noting that police officers played a major part in quelling military uprisings that were launched during the administration of his mother, the late President Cory Aquino.

Meanwhile, Verzosa expressed thanks for the support extended by the SBMA and the Philippine Anti-Graft Commission (PAGC) in establishing the police training school here.

Verzosa said the SBMA provided a free 25-year lease for the 1.8-hectare school site, while the PAGC gave a P14 million grant for the construction of the buildings.

Verzosa added that the training facility, which can accommodate 100 police officers at any given time, will be used to conduct refresher courses on values formation, leadership training and personality development to transform police officers into servant-leaders.

marxman

July 19th, 2010, 12:00 PM

Armed Forces of the Philippines - "Pride of corrupt Filipino officials, an embarrassment to the Filipino people and laughing stock of the world."

TheAvenger

July 19th, 2010, 01:25 PM

ZAMBOANGA CITY, Philippines – Those in uniform were in salute mode—either by hand or firearms in “tanghal” position. The civilians, on the other hand, placed their right hands on their chests.

They were singing the national anthem during Monday morning’s flag raising ceremony at the grandstand inside the Naval Forces – Western Mindanao headquarters here.

But while the Lupang Hinirang was being sung, a blue Nissan Escapade van passed by. Inside the vehicle were American soldiers.

“Ang babastos ng mga ugali nitong mga Amerikano (These Americans are rude),” a Marine sergeant, who asked not to be named, told the Philippine Daily Inquirer after the incident.

The same Marine soldier said had he been the Military Police (MP) on duty when the incident happened, “it would have been a big trouble” for the American soldiers.

“They have no respect,” he said.

But the MP, who requested not to be named because he was not authorized to speak to the media, said he had signaled all vehicles to stop during the flag raising rites at the grandstand.

The driver of the van, however, ignored such order.

“They should have stopped. Even the vehicle’s engine should have been turned off,” the MP said.

“I saw four American soldiers inside… they were all in uniform,” he added.

Even before the American soldiers could reach their camp, they were stopped by another MP.

At first, they refused to open the van’s tinted windows.

Alfonso Narca, a civilian who witnessed the incident, said the MP had to knock on the van’s window and ask for identification cards.

“At first they didn’t want to show any ID, but the MP pulled it off,” Narca said.

Narca said it was as if the American soldiers did not know the importance of giving respect to the Philippine flag.

“Kapag flag raising, kahit saan, kahit sino, kahit presidente ng Pilipinas tumitigil, sumasaludo at nagbibigay galang (When the flag raising, everybody, no matter how high, even if it’s the President of the Philippines, must stop or salute and show respect to the flag),” he said.

Lieutenant General Ben Dolorfino, chief of the military’s Western Mindanao Command, said he would inform US Navy Captain Robert Gusentine, who is overall in command of the American soldiers here, about the incident.

Gusentine is the commander of the Joint Special Operations Task Force Philippines based inside the Western Mindanao Command.

“They (US soldiers) are covered by camp rules and regulations,” Dolorfino, who was in Basilan to attend a peace summit, told the Inquirer.

But Dolorfino was quick to add that “these are individual shortcomings that should not dampen our very good security operations (with the US soldiers).”

Earlier, Naval Forces Western Mindanao Commander Rear Admiral Alexander Pama, who was with Dolorfino in Basilan, said he still had to see the official report of the incident.

Pama said based on the initial report reaching him, what had happened was “clear and simple arrogance.”

In an interview on Monday afternoon, however, Pama said there could have been miscommunication between the US soldiers and the MP.

“Usually, they (US soldiers) stop when there’s flag raising ceremony,” he said.

Pama vowed to have the matter investigated.

The INQUIRER also tried but failed to contact (through phone calls and text) Wossie Mazengia, the acting spokesperson of the US Embassy in Manila.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/news/breakingnews/view/20100719-282027/American-soldiers-disrespect-to-RP-flag-in-AFP-camp-probed

TheAvenger

July 19th, 2010, 02:18 PM

An independent U.S. Military command within a Philippine military camp ?

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz203/crisostomosantos33/JSOTF-P_Group_Photo_Oct__2009.jpg

Those Yankee soldiers who committed disrespect to our Flag should be deported immediately.

chris_nigel

July 19th, 2010, 02:32 PM

^^^^ ang tanong kaya ba nila pauwiin??? Parusahan na lang siguro nila the military way ha...lol

mrboy

July 19th, 2010, 04:53 PM

^^ eh maparusahan din kaya nila yan? :lol:

Arvor

July 19th, 2010, 05:18 PM

Supersonic is twice the speed of sound whereas Mach 1 is equivalent to the speed of sound therefore an aircraft should have the capability to reach at least Mach 2 in order for it to be classified as supersonic like the IAI KFIR 2000 C10.

Well your free to invent your own beliefs but thats simply not the definition of "supersonic" and no aircraft engineer, pilot, manufacturer or indeed anyone who grasps English and languages properly would agree with you ... .

Words are defined through convention and their meaning cant be arbitrary ... .

0~1200 Kmh "Subsonic" a range of speeds when an aircraft is flying slower than the speed of sound .
800~1200 Kmh "Transonic" range when an aircraft is on the verge of breaking through the sound barrier .
1200~1300 Kmh "Supersonic" the average range of speed when an aircraft breaks through the sound barrier thus automatically making it "Supersonic" .
~X5 the speed of sound "Hypersonic" .

Subsonic, Transonic and Supersonic Speeds
There are three speed ranges that are used for most aircraft – subsonic, transonic and supersonic. The differences between the three speeds are to do with how fast the aircraft is going relative to the speed of sound (Mach 1.0 which is about 1225kph or 765mph at sea level).

Subsonic means the aircraft is travelling less than the speed of sound (slower than Mach 1.0) and no shockwaves are present. Aircraft that fly at these speeds are usually small single engine propeller aircraft.

Supersonic means the aircraft is travelling faster than the speed of sound (faster than Mach 1.0) and a shockwave is present in front of the aircraft. Concorde is the most famous example of a supersonic passenger jet.

Transonic is a term used by aircraft designers to describe those high subsonic speeds – usually above Mach 0.7 – where an aircraft is travelling below the speed of sound but shockwaves are still present. So how is this possible if the aircraft is travelling slower than the speed of sound?

Imagine air flowing past an aircraft. Far upstream of the aircraft, the air flows in a uniform fashion, all at the same speed. As the air approaches the aircraft, some regions of the air speed up – in particular the air going over the top of the wings – this is part of the mechanism of flight. So around the aircraft, some regions of the air have been accelerated and are moving very quickly. At Transonic speeds these regions are moving so quickly that they actually move faster than the speed of sound; and these regions of supersonic airflow always end in a shockwave.

Almost all civil airliners flying today travel at Transonic speeds. They are designed to travel as fast as possible without generating very strong shockwaves which would make them inefficient and much more expensive to fly.
http://www.ara.co.uk/content/4/205/what-does-transonic-mean.html

bitoy

July 19th, 2010, 10:42 PM

An independent U.S. Military command within a Philippine military camp ?

Those Yankee soldiers who committed disrespect to our Flag should be deported immediately.

:lol: I got no problem with them going home. Maybe it's just an isolated incident. The driver should be reprimended, maging kano man siya or Pinoy.
As far as I'm concerned pag na deploy ka overseas, parati kang paaalahanan to respect the foreign sovereignty.

gmaer

July 19th, 2010, 11:44 PM

THIS IS NOT A RANTING FORUM!

top secret again?! :lol: :nuts:

Another Brown Tiger Hoax! He earlier posted a picture of the BRP Mariano Alvarez with a missile launcher that does not exist. :bash:

NEWS ALERT FROM QTV-11

One S211 of the PAF Crashed in Capas Tarlac while on Training. The 2 Pilots Ejected safely (at least gumagana pa yung ejection seat hehe..) Only 2 remaining S211 are Grounded.

Therefore... Wala na tayong Jet Interceptor/Defender sa ating Kalawakan...
Tsk..Tsk..Tsk... Kawawa naman tayo..

The S-211 is primarily a trainer jet and the PAF only used it for air defense since they have not found a replacement yet to the retired F-5! If 2 S-211s are remaining then we still have 2 for air defense! Kawawa for what reason?

Armed Forces of the Philippines - "Pride of corrupt Filipino officials, an embarrassment to the Filipino people and laughing stock of the world."

Who's laughing? The AFP is not the only ill-equipped military force in the world.

Brown Tiger

July 20th, 2010, 12:42 AM

Just for Clarification the Missile Launcher that I posted is not the Mariano Alvarez because I'm standing beside the BRP Mariano Alvarez onboard that ship with missiles and the Phil ship is the one with the canadian flag during its port call in Canada.

About the 2 S211, we call this un-operational if you grounded the 2 remaining Jets of the FAP. You cannot intercept any aircraft intruding in our territry say today if there is so its useless.

CLEAR...Boys???....

marxman

July 20th, 2010, 02:39 AM

THIS IS NOT A RANTING FORUM!

this is a forum...

Brown Tiger

July 20th, 2010, 02:58 AM

this is a forum...

Correct Marxman, nobody could stop us for what we believe this is a free country Nobody Owns or should control this Forum (It is not a Ranting Forum) it is our Opinion's Forum open to all!

Right Sir??

gmaer

July 20th, 2010, 03:24 AM

this is a forum...

Yes I know!

Correct Marxman, nobody could stop us for what we believe this is a free country Nobody Owns or should control this Forum (It is not a Ranting Forum) it is our Opinion's Forum open to all!

Right Sir??

And so be it but do you thinking RANTING will be helpful? I say again to support your pictures with how the AFP can acquire such warships because posting away those pictures will make this thread more like a fantasy thread or a day dreamers haven!

Just for Clarification the Missile Launcher that I posted is not the Mariano Alvarez because I'm standing beside the BRP Mariano Alvarez onboard that ship with missiles and the Phil ship is the one with the canadian flag during its port call in Canada.

Then why did you mix the missile launcher picture with the rest of the BRP Mariano Alvarez pictures? What was the Philippine warship on the background of that picture with the Canadian Flag? You confused me!

About the 2 S211, we call this un-operational if you grounded the 2 remaining Jets of the FAP. You cannot intercept any aircraft intruding in our territry say today if there is so its useless.

CLEAR...Boys???....

What is FAP? They are still operational even if they are grounded. The OV-10 is sometimes used to back-up the S-211 for air defense. It is normal for the Philippines to ground aircraft of the same model when accident happens. Who will be invading the Philippines today and what will they get from this country?

bat21

July 20th, 2010, 04:47 AM

http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx156/PNwatcher/DSC_0264.jpg

Philippine Fleet

gmaer

July 20th, 2010, 05:06 AM

http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx156/PNwatcher/DSC_0264.jpg

Philippine Fleet

That would be (starting from the background)...

1. BRP Rajah Humabon (PF-11) - Frigate
2. BRP Apolinario Mabini (PS-36) - Corvette
3. BRP Mariano Alvarez (PS-38) - Patrol Ship
4. BRP Gen. Emilio Aguinaldo (PG-140) - Patrol Boat
5. I cannot properly see the hull number!
6. BRP Simeon Castro (PG-374) - Patrol Boat

april boy

July 20th, 2010, 05:08 AM

there is an impending war in the defense forum!toinks!:lol:

Brown Tiger

July 20th, 2010, 05:38 AM

there is an impending war in the defense forum!toinks!:lol:

No, April Boy. I'm a peace loving man even during my assignment as shown here... Now I am working at the National Computer Center at Fort Bonifacio

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/browntiger.jpg

Brown Tiger Assault

Brown Tiger

July 20th, 2010, 05:42 AM

gmaer

July 20th, 2010, 06:39 AM

No, April Boy. I'm a peace loving man even during my assignment as shown here... Now I am working at the National Computer Center at Fort Bonifacio

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/browntiger.jpg

Brown Tiger During Assault

There you go! You work in Fort Bonifacio therefore you are in the best place to easily forward your comments and suggestions to the AFP grievances committee rather than ranting in this forum that I doubt if the AFP generals can see? Nice looking M4A1 AEG you got there... weathered-look! And which or whose house are you trying to assault?

there is an impending war in the defense forum!toinks!:lol:

Brown Tiger will mobilize the tanks on display at the Fort Bonifacio museum! :banana:

spearhead

July 20th, 2010, 01:39 PM

april boy

July 21st, 2010, 01:22 AM

The government should start once and for all seriously reduce or minimize smuggling, tax evasion and corruption if its impossible to eliminate them.

This will give government agencies like the AFP money to buy much needed equipments.

The AFP should look for cheaper but quality brand new armaments instead of allowing itself as customer of junk dealers of junk US made armaments.

We dont need hi-tech aircrafts or ships what we need are effective armaments that are brand new.

The government of P-noy should look seriously at the possibility of harnessing local capabilities in any manner.

For instance:

In the case of Aerotech Industries:

It can service Aermachi aircrafts so why not buy planes from that company.

In the case of PADC:

Use their facilities.

In the case of Armscor and 2 other local manufacturer of guns:

The government can buy guns and ammo from then and ask them to develop other armaments that can be used by locally fabricated army tanks, retrofitted trainer planes into attack planes and locally made warships.

Brandon32

July 21st, 2010, 03:47 AM

No, April Boy. I'm a peace loving man even during my assignment as shown here... Now I am working at the National Computer Center at Fort Bonifacio

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/browntiger.jpg

Brown Tiger During Assault

ano ito? akala ko ang sundalo nasa bundok...bakit parang nasa loob ito ng bahay...at parang ready for assault?

april boy

July 21st, 2010, 03:50 AM

ano ito? akala ko ang sundalo nasa bundok...bakit parang nasa loob ito ng bahay...at parang ready for assault?

Baka kunwari lang.:lol:

Baka pellets na plastic bala...:lol:

...pang photo ops...hehehe:lol::lol:

Anyway, I believe a local firm can manufacture light assault weapons that can serve the need of our armed forces.

diz

July 21st, 2010, 03:54 AM

http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx156/PNwatcher/DSC_0264.jpg

Philippine Fleet

at least they're squeeky clean.

if it wasn't for Star City in the background, I would have never believed this picture. well done.

vicven2

July 21st, 2010, 05:25 AM

The government should start once and for all seriously reduce or minimize smuggling, tax evasion and corruption if its impossible to eliminate them.

And the first thing they should do is conduct a lifestyle check on all government officials. It's laughable to believe that they are able to afford the luxury vehicles on their salaries. Any check of LTO regional offices, BIR offices, and Customs offices will reveal this. Tsk tsk tsk...

marxman

July 21st, 2010, 09:21 AM

at least they're squeeky clean.

if it wasn't for Star City in the background, I would have never believed this picture. well done.

yeah me too... i thot sa US.. we need to multiply that force by 10 atleast, para macover whole philippines.

TheAvenger

July 21st, 2010, 10:46 AM

.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz203/crisostomosantos33/JSOTF-P_Group_Photo_Oct__2009.jpg

By Julie Alipala
Inquirer Mindanao
First Posted 15:23:00 07/21/2010

Filed Under: Military, Diplomacy, Foreign affairs & international relations, Entertainment (general), music

ZAMBOANGA CITY – Five US soldiers are being investigated for alleged rowdy behavior during a local band concert in Basilan last July 3, according to the military.

“[They are] now being investigated, the incident is both under investigation by the Philippines and the US Armed Forces,” Rear Admiral Alexander Pama, commander of the Naval Forces in Western Mindanao, told the Philippine Daily Inquirer, on Wednesday.

Lieutenant General Ben Dolorfino said that when he received the information about the behavior of the US soldiers during the celebration of the 35th anniversary of the 1st Marine Brigade in Isabela City, he immediately wrote a letter to the US military commander here.

“It was formally reported to the commander [referring to US Navy Col. Robert Gusentine] in a letter signed by me last week, it is being investigated now by Joint Special Operations Task Force Philippines,” he said.

Both Dolorfino and Pama declined to provide details of the incident.

Information provided to the Inquirer by various sources identified the five soldiers as Petty Officer 2 Eric Snatch and Petty Officer Devin Fitzgerald of US Navy; Sgt. Thomas Patterson and Corporal Brian Nguyen of the US Marine Corps; and Ssgt Mathew Blanchard of the US Army.

The sources said the five became unruly during the concert.

The US soldiers are in Basilan under the US-RP Visiting Forces Agreement.

Isabela City Mayor Hadji Muhtamad Abdulmajid Anwar said he sponsored the band concert during the Marines anniversary celebration.

“I took pity on our soldiers because they are far from their families. To make them happy, I hired a band for their anniversary,” he said.

Anwar said everything went smoothly in the early part of the concern on July 2.

As it was getting late, the five US soldiers started to get out of control, he said.

“They climbed up the stage and snatched the instruments of the band members as they were packing up,” he said.

The US soldiers also shouted offensive words while doing this, according to Anwar.

“They then turned to the female lead singer, who was already drunk at the time, and took turns in kissing her. They carried her to their barracks, while local soldiers tried to intercede on her behalf. It was fortunate that some Filipino soldiers managed to get her back before anything could happen,” he said.
Other sources said among those who tried to pacify the US troops was Lt. Romulo Dicay, a member of the Philippine Navy assigned in Basilan.

The Inquirer learned that instead of yielding to Ducay, a senior officer, the five US forces yelled invectives at him.

One of them even allegedly challenged Ducay to a fist fight.

Reached by the Inquirer, Ducay declined to issue a statement, saying he was not allowed to do so.

Dolorfino confirmed that Ducay was not authorized to speak on the matter.

“It is something that is best addressed by our administrative system, not through the media,” he said.

Wossie Mazengia, acting spokesman of the US Embassy based in Manila, said they could not comment on the report yet.

“We just learned of the report, we don’t know the facts, we are looking into what may have happened” Mazengia said by phone.

On Monday, Filipino officers, speaking on condition of anonymity, said four US soldiers on board a van ignored a Philippine flag raising ceremony at the headquarters of the Naval Forces – Western Mindanao in Zamboanga City, in violation of the country’s laws.

“They were so rude,” a Marine sergeant, who asked not to be named, told the Inquirer after the incident.

The same Marine soldier said had he been the Military Police (MP) on duty at that time, “it would have been big trouble” for the American soldiers.

“They have no respect,” he said.

The military police on duty at that time and who asked not to be named, said he had signaled all vehicles to stop during the flag raising rites at the grandstand. But the van carrying the American soldiers ignored the signal.

Pama vowed to have the incident investigated.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/regions/view/20100721-282380/5-US-soldiers-probed-for-rowdy-behavior-in-Zamboanga-concert

THOSE YANKEE SOLDIERS SHOULD BE RE-ASSIGNED TO IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN.