Philippine Defense Forces [Archive] - Page 21

mwg12a

August 17th, 2010, 03:11 AM

Bottom line is Im not a fool but you are.

You are a moron and a FOOL for saying Im expecting that everything will be free. And you and you very stupid argument makes you a fool and delusional.

One article said the US will grant us missiles. How do you interpret grant? Is it not for free? Fool!

Anyway, its funny how a loose cannon comes up with fantastic tales, invented scenarios, foolish replies and wrong facts and data project himself.

I guess you added comments.... Same thing over and over again, insisting what you think or know is right .. you against all ??? Does it ring a bell? gmaer thinks you're a fool and I share the same sentiment!

We've been asking you what brand new equipment?

Fund aloted by the americans is limited... The Philippine government negotiated for these!!!!!! Why would the US GOVERNMENT WOULD GIVE MORE THAN WHAT WAS NEGOTIATED UPON? You even and most especially gmaer posted some articles about these.

The sample articles or armunition you showed are also expensive, more expensive than what the Philippine panel has been negotiating upon.... THERE ARE BRAND NEW EQUIPMENTS OR ARMAMENTS GIVEN TO THE PHILIPPINES BY THE AMERICANS AS PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED.... WHAT THE HELL DO YOU WANT? THE WHOLE US MILITARY BASES?? WTF??? Now again, you would say I NEVER F'ng asked for these just like the Polish sokols... IT'S SARCASM BABY, SARCASM..... and you take it literally when you didn't even say you said it yourself in the beginning of those world , it started with "I think" WOW, UNF'ng believable!!!!!!!! And you think you're smarter than everybody.....

You're just uptight because you had to deal with me gmaer and another one who just gave up on you but the bottom line is that MANY OF US CONSIDERED YOU AS A FOOL! And where are you again?? ALL ALONE WITH YOUR CAUSE IN A DUMP DARK ROOM..

here is another example for you when it comes to your brandnew low tech that in my opinion cause money for the US government and is not something to just be given away for free... maybe a couple of dozen but what does that do for the Philippine military??? BUT AGAIN, THE US GAVE BRANDNEW ARMS TO THE FILIPINOS FOR FREE... WHAT YOU ARE REALLY BITCHING ABOUT WAS THE REFURBISHED US HUEY's.... what do you want? Apache helicopters for fighting helpless insurgents in Mindanao were the proper tactic is the only key to illeminate that issue.

An indication that the US under its various technical assistance program can provide brand new armaments (equipments) to our security forces instead of just providing us second hands.:):)

I have to correct a bit, super tucano is no where being low tech, for COIN class aircraft. Its really good considering super tucano can also carry FLIR pod. NVG genIII cockpit and two piranha missiles. Remember, this aircraft is best for recon and counter insurgency operation.

cheers

There, i hope you don't consider these as junks as well....

PNP receives 4 new patrol boats from US

Philstar.com - Monday, August 16SendIM StoryPrint

MANILA, Philippines – The Philippine National Police has acquired today four new patrol gunboats.

During a turnover ceremony in Puerto Princesa City, Palawan, PNP chief director general Jesus Verzosa received from US Ambassador Harry Thomas Jr. the four 31-footer rigid-hull buoyant boats as part of the technical assistance package provided by the US government to the PNP through the US International Criminal Investigative Training Assistance Program (ICITAP).

The patrol boats, manufactured by NAIAD of Rhode Island, is powered by twin 250HP engines that can reach speeds up to 51 knots, and is fully equipped with navigation, communication and weapons systems.

By Dennis Carcamo (Philstar News Service, www.philstar.com)

kalbongdad

August 17th, 2010, 07:52 AM

bygulay....for sure nde yan magagamit kasi walng pang gasolina....:lol:

mwg12a

August 17th, 2010, 08:16 AM

^^ :rofl:

pi_malejana

August 17th, 2010, 08:17 AM

may bumagsak na naman..:ohno:

Navy rescue helicopter crashes off Zambo (1:56 p.m.) (http://www.sunstar.com.ph/network/navy-rescue-helicopter-crashes-zambo-156-pm)
Tuesday, August 17, 2010

ZAMBOANGA CITY -- A top military official said Tuesday that a rescue helicopter of the Philippine Navy crashed near the Little Sta. Cruz Island, south of this city.

Lieutenant General Benjamin Dolorfino, Western Mindanao Command (Wesmincom) chief, said the rescue helicopter crashed at 11:05 a.m. Tuesday while it was participating in small-boat maneuver training.

He said five people -- two pilots and three crew -- were aboard the helicopter when it fell into the water near the Little Sta. Island.

The two pilots are still missing as of this posting Tuesday. (Bong Garcia)

april boy

August 17th, 2010, 08:42 AM

april boy

August 17th, 2010, 08:51 AM

Philippines to get U.S. precision missiles: document

Reuters
By Manny Mogato Manny Mogato – Thu Jul 29, 7:13 am ET

MANILA (Reuters) – Washington has pledged to provide the Philippines with $18.4 million worth of precision-guided missiles this year to use in its fight against Islamist militants in the south, according to a military document seen by Reuters.The missiles are being funded under a U.S. Congress Act that allows the Defense Department to train and equip foreign armies allied with Washington to fight Islamist militants across the world since 2006.

The Philippines has no missile capability. Most of its ships and aircraft are Vietnam War vintage. It spends about 1 percent of GDP for defense and security, but 70 percent of the budget goes to paying salaries and allowances of 130,000-member army.

Including the funds for the missiles, the Philippines has received more than $73 million under the program.

(Editing by John Mair and Miral Fahmy)

Might be like this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_En-sxfOkXP8/TFNrUKclDRI/AAAAAAAAGd8/zv1SaQejF4o/s400/GBU-10-B-1A.jpg
Precision guided munition (photo : ausairpower)

http://defense-studies.blogspot.com/2010/07/philippines-to-get-us-precision.html

Kintoy

August 17th, 2010, 10:01 AM

I have to correct a bit, super tucano is no where being low tech, for COIN class aircraft. Its really good considering super tucano can also carry FLIR pod. NVG genIII cockpit and two piranha missiles. Remember, this aircraft is best for recon and counter insurgency operation.

I remember US blackwater security is also purchasing one of this super tucano.

http://www.defesanet.com.br/yy/embraer/fac/super_tucano_3.jpg

cheers

yup, Blackwater has one Super Tucano. and Embraer is bidding for US Navy requirement for 100 anti-insurgency aircraft

april boy

August 17th, 2010, 11:54 AM

PNP receives 4 new patrol boats from US

Philstar.com - Monday, August 16SendIM StoryPrint

MANILA, Philippines – The Philippine National Police has acquired today four new patrol gunboats.

During a turnover ceremony in Puerto Princesa City, Palawan, PNP chief director general Jesus Verzosa received from US Ambassador Harry Thomas Jr. the four 31-footer rigid-hull buoyant boats as part of the technical assistance package provided by the US government to the PNP through the US International Criminal Investigative Training Assistance Program (ICITAP).

The patrol boats, manufactured by NAIAD of Rhode Island, is powered by twin 250HP engines that can reach speeds up to 51 knots, and is fully equipped with navigation, communication and weapons systems.

The ICITAP has provided the technical assistance and logistics for establishment of the Special Boat Unit (SBU) of the PNP Maritime Group stationed in Puerto Princesa City.

Two more patrol boats are expected to be delivered to complete the SBU operational complement. - By Dennis Carcamo (Philstar News Service, www.philstar.com)

http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/2010/august/17/mainphoto.gif
Gunboat diplomacy. The National Police received Monday four 31-footer rigid-hull inflatable gunboats from the United States, similar to the two above, as part of a US assistance package to combat terrorism. To gunboats will be based in Puerto Princesa and will be deployed in the waters off Palawan and in the Sulu-Sulawesi seas. Manila Standard

kalbongdad

August 17th, 2010, 12:14 PM

ano kaya ang silbi ng maliliit na yan....ah oo para masabi na nagbigay ang kano sa pinas.....:lol::lol:

SupermanII

August 17th, 2010, 03:18 PM

ano kaya ang silbi ng maliliit na yan....ah oo para masabi na nagbigay ang kano sa pinas.....:lol::lol:

Rigid inflatables are used for inserting special forces units. they are also quite useful for coast guard duties, specially in the palawan - sulu area where abu sayaf are active and who use small but extremely fast boats in their activities .

these vessels are very appropriate for the palawan assignment.

kalbongdad

August 17th, 2010, 03:23 PM

Rigid inflatables are used for inserting special forces units. they are also quite useful for coast guard duties, specially in the palawan - sulu area where abu sayaf are active and who use small but extremely fast boats in their activities .

these vessels are very appropriate for the palawan assignment.

that too...is a valid reason....:lol: the navy has a few of the same already during the time of kenney......anyway.....at least may magamit sa outing ang pnp.....:lol:

mwg12a

August 18th, 2010, 08:03 AM

Yup your bell in the head is ringing.

Me against all? WTF are you talking about? In the first place Im just arguing with you and gmaer. And time and again I made my stand clear and I know what Im talking about.And as for you, you dont know what yopu are talking about.

You post like junkie.

:lol::lol::rofl: This kid is something else, he thinks he knew it all even if he was was already told off by those he had arguements with.... trouble with you it that, you have a selective hearing/reading... you only want to see what you want to see or hear.... Atleast there is one passage I can remember you mentioned once before all these... "if that is what the US government can only offer the Philippines, what can we do..." I am atleast contented with that answer you had. My main thing is that and I believe even gmaer is saying the same thing. You just ask too much, you only see the 2nd hand equipments the US has given the country . What about the new arms? We can't scrutinize what the US gave Israel or other countries, it's not an act of biases. The thing is each of these countries being helped by US has all different reasons why the US Gov would assist certain amounts. Israel for instance pay the US back by sharing it's own developed armory or technology, that and the fact that Israel is always in constant war with Palestine. The tooth ache they might be the same pain but the degree of its condition varies so each and every individual is treated according to their needs.

I can't really believe you dissect words for words of our discussions even with gmaer, even some of it is just a form of sarcasm just to get a point across... Apparently, you didn't get it. I am positive as well as gmaer is positive that we knew what you wanted to happen... I don't have to elaborate on that. I can just shake my head on you...

I see you are so uptight with all these name calling you are laying down here. If you think I am and gmaer are stupid, I personally think you're a moron.... I never called you stupid until now but I know I mentioned the word the word " fool". Any reason for being too uptight and verbally abusive??

Nope, I still do not agree with what you said about the brand new equipments because what we were discussing about were mostly helicopters and I am guessing jet fighters as well since you brought that Super Tucano into the discussion.. The brand new arms were more cheaper than those and there is hardly any maintenance required to those. You're the one who keeps on saying the US keeps on giving the country junks until arms like sokol appear into the discussion.

april boy

August 18th, 2010, 12:04 PM

:lol::lol::rofl: This kid is something else, he thinks he knew it all even if he was was already told off by those he had arguements with.... trouble with you it that, you have a selective hearing/reading... you only want to see what you want to see or hear....

You project too much.

And you are something else. And Its your problem and not my problem that you have selective reading and hearing. Because all throughout I have answered your arguments point by point.
Atleast there is one passage I can remember you mentioned once before all these... "if that is what the US government can only offer the Philippines, what can we do..."
Thats a fact right now, right?We always get second hand most of the time. But do you still remember that I PROPOSE or SUGGESTED THAT WHY NOT ASK FOR BRAND NEW ARMAMENTS IF POSSIBLE.And this request will be BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF MILITARY ASSISTANCE they have allotted for us (specific fiscal year). So I posted the same article provided by gmaer that as of today, the US already gave us 73 million dollars worth of equipment.This include the US 18 million dollar precision missiles reported by Reuter that the US will grant us (take note as a grant).
I am atleast contented with that answer you had. My main thing is that and I believe even gmaer is saying the same thing. You just ask too much, you only see the 2nd hand equipments the US has given the country .Asking too much if the brand new equipments will be within the allotted budget of the US for irts military assistance to the country? In fact, you called me a fool and a daydreamer because you and gmaer emphatically said its impossible for the country to receive brand new equipments from the US. Thats why you keep on justifying the second hand given by the US.
Thats why I posted and reposted the missiles that the US will give us. Thats why i quoted another poster that the US gave us brand new (albeit small) PNP naval gunships. A clear indication that contrary to your position that its impossible to get new equipments or armaments from the US.

What about the new arms?We got some. Check the new armaments from the US to our security forces.
We can't scrutinize what the US gave Israel or other countries, it's not an act of biases. The thing is each of these countries being helped by US has all different reasons why the US Gov would assist certain amounts. Israel for instance pay the US back by sharing it's own developed armory or technology, that and the fact that Israel is always in constant war with Palestine. The tooth ache they might be the same pain but the degree of its condition varies so each and every individual is treated according to their needs.

Im not asking for 3 billion dollars given to Israel, Egypt or Jordan. Im jut suggesting that we get brand new from whatever amount the US Congress has allotted for us. If its just 73 million dollars for us, compared to 9 billion dollars for Israel or 300 million dollars for Poland (based on the speech of Mirriam Santiago) then ask for brand new that is worth 73 million dollars for instance.

In this case, as reported, precision missiles to be mounted on our OV-10 plus software will be given to us as US grant (free) to our AFP.

I can't really believe you dissect words for words of our discussions even with gmaer, even some of it is just a form of sarcasm just to get a point across... Apparently, you didn't get it. I am positive as well as gmaer is positive that we knew what you wanted to happen... I don't have to elaborate on that. I can just shake my head on you...

Contrary again to your claim that I have selective reading or hearing. Mine is based on facts, yours is based on what you believe in.

I see you are so uptight with all these name calling you are laying down here. If you think I am and gmaer are stupid, I personally think you're a moron....
I categorically deny that I called gmaer stupid.

I categorically confirm that I called you a lying fool, dumb and stupid for twisting facts, making false claims and inventing stories. And you totally ignored the facts I presented.

I never called you stupid until now but I know I mentioned the word the word " fool". Any reason for being too uptight and verbally abusive??

And you deserve it. My position was simple, Im suggesting we ask for brand new based on the allotted budget of the US for us and yet you have thrown all sorts of invented scenarios, false claims and fantastic scenarios and repeatedly made insulting sarcastic remarks to make yourself look good and me look silly.. Which actually made you look a stupid and dumb liar.

How many times have you committed mistakes in presenting certain facts ( and even make you look dumb by saying WWII warheads instead of warship, aVFR instead of VFA, and Lost cost, instead of lost cause, Arroyo shpould be Erap) and yet keep on insisting you are right

Nope, I still do not agree with what you said about the brand new equipments because what we were discussing about were mostly helicopters and I am guessing jet fighters as well since you brought that Super Tucano into the discussion..

Thats the problem with you. You based your replies on wild guess and baseless claims.And categorically I did not ask for jets. Thats why I keep on telling gmaer and you that brand new does not mean hi tech, expensive and ultra modern.
Did you missed my example/analogy that a brand new basic car (Toyota Avanza used for taxi service) is still cheaper than a second hand hi-tech car (Mercedes Benz)?

AND besides, I MADE IT CLEAR THAT IM ONLY AFTER BRAND NEW ARMAMENTS not necessary helicopters or aircrafts fully aware that the US only gives us small amount of military assistance (for 2010, 73 million only). Remember the Humvee? Now if brand new helicopters are possible why not? If not, other armaments.

I DID NOT BROUGHT THE SUPER TUCANO IN OUR DISCUSSION. MY TUCANO REPLY WAS A REPLY TO THE POST MADE BY ANOTHER POSTER.

The brand new arms were more cheaper than those and there is hardly any maintenance required to those. Obviously. Thats why Im batting for brand new.

You're the one who keeps on saying the US keeps on giving the country junks until arms like sokol appear into the discussion.Indeed.

The Sokol helicopters were mentioned because as gmaer pointed out they cost 60 million dollars so I said at 73 million dollars US aid we might get some of those. By the way, the Sokols were acquired using AFP funds.

Now thinking that the US dont have brand new helicopters with the same price, I just insisted on other armaments like my humvee example.

You just ask too much, you only see the 2nd hand equipments the US has given the country .

Read my replies again.

Christian_123

August 18th, 2010, 01:20 PM

Musta na ang Antique Forces of the Philippines? at ang Palamonin Navy?

april boy

August 18th, 2010, 02:47 PM

The AFP should stop buying (take note buying) second hand. Hopefully, the AFP will request for more brand new armaments from the US under the existing US military assistance program for the Philippines.

Now, if the US cant give us bigger (helicopters, jets or warships) and expensive items then go for cheaper smaller but brand new US made armaments. (the brand new PNP boats and the reported US precision missiles to be granted to us are very welcome. More please, perhaps..brand new light attack/trainer aircrafts?)

We have an option to buy brand new aircrafts, warships and other armaments by bidding it out based on the amount of money and requirements that we have.

Gibo Teodoro's Sokol helicopter procurement is one good example.The recent AFP project to bid out for attack aircrafts is another example...

As what Christian123 said, we have an Antiquated AFP...Very sad but very true.

But its not hopeless.. in fact we are already starting..baby steps muna....

Christian_123

August 18th, 2010, 04:08 PM

Wag na puro US, Russian made naman para masaya :D

Arvor

August 18th, 2010, 07:09 PM

The US navy has quite a few frigates in mothball or storage they could probably easily hand us a few of them but the problem would then be that the country could not afford to run these things, so its basically pointless for them to hand us big ticket equipment if we are ourselves unable for whatever reason ( tiny defence budget ) to maintain or use those items .

Furthermore after substantial American aid and historical links in the past aswell as substantial rent for bases that we more or less kicked them out almost unceremoniously in the 90's probably created less sympathy for our country aswell .

Of course there has to be "quid pro quo" or something in return for something, at the moment what exactly do we have on the table that makes a partnership or alliance with the US worthwhile for them to go beyond doing the minimum with regards their defence obligations with us ? .

Allowing the US to once again setup a major base say in one of the strategic ( vis a vis China and the Okinawa base conundrum ) but uninhabited Batanes islands to limit contact with our citizens could help alot .

Portable anti ship/tank and aircraft missiles are cheap and could be more easily integrated into our existing military structures and budgets as a first step .

gmaer

August 19th, 2010, 05:14 AM

RP debt seen to hit P5.042 trillion next year (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=603023&publicationSubCategoryId=66)
By Iris C. Gonzales (The Philippine Star) Updated August 16, 2010 12:00 AM

MANILA, Philippines - The National Government’s debt is expected to hit P5.042 trillion next year, higher than the P4.737 trillion projected for this year as the government continues to borrow to plug a widening budget gap.

Now who still wants to buy brand new military equipment?

---

It's definite: Noy going to US (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=603486&publicationSubCategoryId=63)
By Aurea Calica (The Philippine Star) Updated August 17, 2010 12:00 AM

Mr. Aquino said it has not been determined if the status of the Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA) between the Philippines and the US would be discussed with US officials during his visit.

The Philippine Senate has passed a resolution to abolish the VFA or renegotiate it.

Aquino, during his term as senator, was among those who signed the agreement.

President Noy Aquino said he is open for reviewing the VFA but was one of the (former) senators who signed the VFAgreement.

pi_malejana

August 19th, 2010, 06:51 AM

:ohno: RIP

http://www8.gmanews.tv/images/topstories/ZZZ_081910_1.jpg
from GMANews.tv

2 missing pilots in Zambo chopper crash found dead (http://www.gmanews.tv/story/198886/2-missing-pilots-in-zambo-chopper-crash-found-dead)
08/19/2010 | 11:00 AM

Two Navy helicopter pilots who were reported missing after their aircraft crashed off Zamboanga last Tuesday were found dead Thursday morning.

Rear Admiral Alexander Pama, outgoing commander of Naval Forces Western Mindanao, said the bodies were found some distance from the chopper's wreck.

"Yan ang aming ikinalulungkot ngayon ... Naabisuhan na ang pamilya nila (It is a cause of sorrow for us. Their families have been notified)," Pama said in an interview on dzBB radio.

He said search teams found the remains of Lt. Tristan Joseph Corpus two miles from the island where the helicopter crashed, at about 6:55 a.m. Thursday.

The teams found the remains of Lt. Gerald Tamayo at 7:20 a.m., near the site of the crash.

"Sa kasamaang palad ito ay sumakabilang buhay na (Unfortunately, they were both dead)," Pama said.

He said the remains of both pilots will be brought to Manila and accorded due honors.

For his part, Lt. Col. Edgard Arevalo, Navy spokesman, said: "The Navy mourns [the] great loss of two distinguished naval aviators who have participated in many combat missions and search and rescue operations until this air mishap."

The two pilots were reported missing after a Philippine Navy helicopter crashed Tuesday morning in Zamboanga City. Its three passengers were rescued. — LBG/RSJ, GMANews.TV

mwg12a

August 19th, 2010, 07:42 AM

You project to much.

Im sorry to say this, but Im not childish and Im not the one who made alot of childish mistakes and childish sarcasm. You did.

Anyway, indeed, we are going circles already.

I project too much or you're just arrogant who doesn't want to admit you had mistakes yourself? I admitted my error and acknowledged i gave a wrong year atleast I am man enough to do that... what about yourself? . You even used that error as your tool in your attempt to convince us you're absolutely right, which you're not. You did give some valid points out there but no in the end you would still come across as too needy so to speak... Why did I say this? You brought up issues such as that deal where you mentioned the US granted 3 billion to Israel, Jordan and Egypt but can't grant the Philippines the same bigger amount and new equipments, doh!! they are not at all free, they make payments to it, they have the resources to pay America back since those countries are never considered underdeveloped of poor country... While Israel is constantly at war, inspite of that, they develop military technology where the US benefits from... so you can't compare, you can't cite those facts because their case is different from the Philippines where the main problem in MOSTLY INTERNAL, insurgency which ofcourse the US would think if the US didnt help the Philippines in this issue, the southern tip the Philippines would possibly be a trainig ground for international terrorism. You always make it sound that the US concern on their own interests are all that evil, when you come to think of it, our internal problem is our own problem, it's not a full scale international issue ...

Look, the main thing is you did come across as you are expecting everything for free, instead of just saying, "no, not necessarily" "if that is only what we get, what can we do about it?" then not expound even more by citing other examples and challenging gmaer and I, which as we all knew just triggered a new set of arguement on top of what we already have... I do not have to read your post over and over again because come on!!! it's the same bullshit over and over again..... I know what you were hoping for, like I mentioned earlier, I am pretty sure the Philippine panel would try and negotiate brand new equipment, but since it is free, those refurbished aircrafts or helicopters you were gripping about is still alot better than what the Philippine military ever had, because it is refurbished .... alot of them are reconfugured with a more advanced technology than it used to be. It's just the same with most other non military aircrafts where if they are well maintained and refurbished usually is as good as brand new. What does Merriam Defensor on these personally???? She is a lawyer/politician but she is no where close to being a military person nor had operated military equipments. Merriam do know something but certainly not everything..

I hope this is the end of these as well, we can move on to a different topic... No hard feelings on my end. I don't know about you... One thing for sure, giving examples with sarcastic undertone do not sit well with you because you take it all literally. Maybe that's my other fault. Relax! those weren't thrown with a purpose of ridiculing you....

mwg12a

August 19th, 2010, 07:58 AM

Again where's my quote? I have 3 days left so let's settle this issue once and for all!

Not anymore because a Humvee can now be legally used by civilians in fact the company that produced the Humvee (www.hummer.com) has commercialized their Humvees that even Angel Locsin actually owns one.

Yeah, I think someone did even comment that there are fake humbees being built in the Philippines and I believe the Philippine military build it themselves so that can be scratched out of the "want lists" (as if it's a shopping lists) LOL

BTW , good find on those F-35 and Tucano deal that's being planned by the UK to replace some of their air defense with a less expensive unit like Tucano.

april boy

August 19th, 2010, 10:00 AM

US warns Spratlys claimants

Manila Standard
August 19,2010

The US military opposes the use of force by countries locked in a dispute over territory in the South China Sea and will maintain its presence in the strategic region for years to come, an American commander said on Wednesday.

The comments by Adm. Robert Willard, the head of the US Pacific Command, follow remarks last month by US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton that outraged China. She told a conference of Southeast and East Asian ministers that the US had a “national interest” in seeing the territorial disputes resolved through a “collaborative diplomatic process by all claimants.”

China claims sovereignty over the entire South China Sea, which is strewn with disputed groups of islands, including the Spratly archipelago—also claimed in whole or in part by Vietnam, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines.

Willard said that Washington does not take sides in the disputes but added it will oppose any use “of force or any forms of coercion to stake these claims on the part of any single nation at the expense of the others.”

He said China’s “assertive” behavior in the South China Sea was on the agenda in annual defense talks in Manila on Wednesday with Philippine military officials.

“We discussed the assertiveness that we’re experiencing by the Chinese in the South China Sea and the concerns that that has generated within the region,” he told a news conference.

He said American forces will continue with their presence in the region for years to come to keep its sea lanes and air space safe for the huge traffic of commercial cargo.

Willard also urged the countries in the region to build adequate militaries to help keep the peace.

“It’s very important that the governments in the region invest in sufficient militaries and security apparatus to protect their respective territorial waters,” he said.

“This is about preventing conflict, not allowing any of the circumstances in the region to lead up to a shooting war,” said Willard.

Philippine military chief Lt. Gen. Ricardo David lamented his country’s weak military, which he said could not adequately patrol the Spratly Islands that it claims. With antiquated planes and ships, the Philippine military capability in the disputed areas is “almost negligible,” he said.

The Spratlys are a group of islands, reefs and atolls with rich fishing grounds. The area is believed to have large oil and natural gas reserves and straddles busy sea lanes that are a crucial conduit for oil and other resources fueling China’s fast-expanding economy and those of other Asian nations.

The conflicting claims have occasionally erupted into armed confrontation, although China and the other claimants have sought to resolve differences peacefully and pledged not to take any steps that could lead to clashes under a 2002 code of conduct.

Chinese forces seized the western Paracels from Vietnam in 1974 and sank three Vietnamese naval vessels in a 1988 sea battle. AP

april boy

August 19th, 2010, 11:06 AM

Excerpts from a research paper made by a prof of International studies from DLSU-Manila.

Empowering a New Era in the United States–Philippines Security Alliance

Published on June 28, 2010 by Renato De Castro and Walter Lohman

....However, by virtue of the 1951 U.S.–Philippines Mutual Defense Treaty, the United States and the Philippines can work together to develop the Philippines’ capacity to offer a credible defense of its claims in the face of China’s assertiveness and to support the United States and its other allies in defending the freedom of navigation.

Philippine Territorial Defense

The AFP’s weapons inventory consists primarily of light tanks, light and medium towed artillery, coastal and inshore patrol vessels, amphibious ships, various landing craft for inter-island transport, fixed-wing trainers that double as ground-attack aircraft, and transport and attack helicopters.[6]

The AFP has had no dedicated, proper fighter aircraft since it decommissioned the last of its 40-year-old F-5s in 2005. Most of its equipment was designed and made in the U.S. and acquired through the Military Assistance Program (MAP) and the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) credit.

After the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the U.S. and the subsequent formation of a U.S.-led coalition in the war on terrorism, Philippine–American security relations improved dramatically. In short order, the AFP was granted access to the U.S. military’s excess defense articles.

More important, it participated in several large-scale training exercises with American forces. From 2002 to 2004, the U.S. provided the AFP with a C-13 transport aircraft, two Point-class cutters, a Cyclone-class special-forces landing craft, 28 UH-1H Huey helicopters, and 30,000 M-16 assault rifles.[25] Training exercises between the AFP and U.S. Armed Forces were generally focused on counterinsurgency and counterterrorism warfare, logistics and equipment maintenance, intelligence training, and civil–military operations. The U.S. also agreed to train three light reaction companies that would form the AFP’s 1st Special Forces Group.

Aside from providing military equipment and training to the AFP, the U.S. and the Philippines established the Joint Defense Agreement (JDA). Convened from 1999–2003, the JDA focused U.S. defense assistance on institutional reforms in the AFP. It also provided for continuous and significant American involvement in monitoring their implementation by the DND.

This led to the formulation of the Philippine Defense Reform Program (PDR) and the AFP’s Capability Upgrade Program (CUP).

The CUP encompasses the AFP’s long-term goal to develop its external defense capability in consonance with the concept of “retooling the force” as stipulated in the 2001 National Military Strategy.[29] The program stipulates an 18-year defense acquisition and resource management period divided into three six-year phases:

1. First phase (2006–2011): acquisition and upgrade of equipment for enhancing the AFP’s conduct of ISO.
2. Second phase (2012–2018): the transition phase from ISO capability-building to territorial defense.
3. Third phase (2019–2024): acquisition geared to territorial defense and peacekeeping operations.[30]

Starting in 2006, the AFP plans to spend PHP 5 billion ($125 million) annually on equipment upgrades and acquisitions. In the first phase of the upgrade program, the AFP intends to restore at least 70 percent of its critical capabilities to conduct effective counterinsurgency operations. These capabilities include C41SR (command, control, computers, communications, intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance); mobility; firepower; and combat support. These capabilities are prioritized to increase the survival rate of frontline troops, thus significantly improving internal security operations. The CUP’s list now includes the acquisition of squad automatic weapons, HF/SSB Manpack Transceivers, armored recovery vehicles, Patrol Killer craft, and night-fighting equipment and upgrades and repair of BN Islander, OV-10 fixed-wing reconnaissance planes, Jacinto-class patrol craft, F-27-500 patrol aircraft, UH-1 helicopters, and V-150 armor fighting vehicles. Because first-phase projects emphasize developing the AFP’s internal security capability, they focus mainly on providing equipment to the army at the expense of Philippine Air Force (PAF) and Philippine Navy (PN) needs.

The military establishment decided to shorten the initial six-year acquisition program (2006– 2011) to three years (2006–2008) so that it could fast-track purchases of this badly needed equipment. In 2007, President Arroyo approved an additional PHP 10 billion ($200 million) to acquire six refurbished UH-1H helicopters, 20 upgraded MD-520MG Defender attack helicopters, and a number of fast patrol craft for river operations.[31]

Yet even with renewed U.S. commitment after 2001, the AFP’s overall combat capability has not recovered from its decline in the 1990s. Much of its aging and nearly obsolete military equipment, dependent on U.S. military assistance for maintenance and repairs, became unserviceable or was cannibalized for parts and to reduce maintenance costs.

Helping the Philippines Meet the Demands of Territorial Defense

The AFP is still largely a ground force, and any structural change is not reflected in the defense budget. Annual defense spending has remained relatively constant at the 2005 level, and defense spending from 2006 to 2009 represents just 4.9 percent (less than $1 billion) of the total government fiscal budget and less than 1 percent of gross domestic product.[45] The Philippine government has been spending less (in constant dollars) on defense in the 21st century than it did in the 1990s.

Philippine defense spending increased slightly in the latter part of 2007 as part of the DND’s revision of its expenditure policy based on the Defense Planning Guide (DPG), which underpins all defense budget measures for fiscal years 2006–2011.[46] The government also allocated $131.7 million for the CUP for the acquisition of helicopters and patrol boats.

The AFP needs new defense materiel to execute territorial security operations. Current priorities are the acquisition of 17 UH-1H transport and six attack helicopters.

To these ends, Washington should:

* Bilaterally engage the Philippine Department of National Defense and the AFP in a comprehensive review of past and current reform efforts. This review should evaluate the JDA, the Multi-Year Capability Planning System, the PDR, CUP, and the Defense System Management. Hopefully, this will goad the Philippine defense community into accelerating reform and convince it to factor territorial security into its defense planning and spending.
* Review and reprioritize U.S. security assistance programs to make them responsive to the AFP’s shift from internal security to territorial defense. International Military Education and Training (IMET) should include training PAF pilots and ground support staff in fixed-wing aircraft operations. It should also retrain middle-level PAF and PN officers in territorial defense and send AFP officers to courses on formulating doctrine on defense equipment procurement and legislative liaison. The Pentagon should also consider offering the AFP some defense equipment for territorial defense through FMS because government-to-government transactions have been deemed faster and more efficient than the bidding system established by the AFP Modernization Act.
* Identify and finance a major defense project that can indirectly support the AFP’s shift from internal security to territorial defense. Using the Coast Watch South project as a model, the Pentagon can finance projects that indirectly support the AFP’s shift to territorial defense. This could be in the form of rehabilitating the country’s radar systems, the PAF’s long-range reconnaissance and surveillance capability, or the PN’s (or coast guard’s) capability to patrol the western Philippines, particularly Palawan Island. This project could be financed through FMS.
* Encourage and coordinate programs of military assistance by other U.S. bilateral allies to the Philippines. In the past, South Korea, Australia, Thailand, and even Japan have provided the Philippines with some of their excess defense articles. Recently, the Republic of Korea provided the PN with two Patrol Killer Medium (PKM) craft. The U.S. can informally encourage its allies to give Manila more surplus defense articles as grants or as long-term loans and to guarantee that their security programs aimed at assisting the AFP will be responsive to the requirements of Philippine territorial defense.
* Heighten diplomatic and military engagement with Manila to impress upon its ally and the region that the U.S. will remain a Pacific power and the Philippines’ principal strategic ally far into the future. No amount of American military assistance will enable the Philippines to stand alone against an emergent China in the long run. Washington must reassure Manila that the U.S. will be a Pacific power well into the 21st century and that the U.S. is a reliable and trustworthy ally that remains committed to the 1951 Mutual Defense Treaty.

Conclusion

The Chinese challenge to the U.S. interest in freedom of navigation in the South China Sea grows more serious by the day. The Philippines is similarly challenged by China’s assertiveness over its claims to disputed territory just off Philippine shores. The challenge for the Philippines is greatly complicated by its physical inability to monitor Chinese activities in and around its claims, much less respond to Chinese assertions. This inability greatly constrains Philippine diplomatic options.

To manage growing Chinese power, the U.S. needs a reliable, adequately equipped, like-minded partner on the South China Sea. The Philippines needs American leadership and assistance to fully develop its capacity for territorial defense. U.S. and Philippine needs and interests coincide and should serve as a basis for empowering a new era in the security alliance.

—Renato C. De Castro, Ph.D., is Professor in the International Studies Department of De La Salle University (Manila) and holds the Dr. Aurelio Calderon Professorial Chair of Philippine–American Relations. Walter Lohman is Director of the Asian Studies Center at The Heritage Foundation.

kalbongdad

August 19th, 2010, 03:06 PM

sige pagamit na naman kayo sa kano alam nyo naman na interes lang nila ang nasa puso ng mga tusong yan....pag gulo na....iwan ka sa ere.....:lol:

Narnian_King

August 19th, 2010, 03:25 PM

sige pagamit na naman kayo sa kano alam nyo naman na interes lang nila ang nasa puso ng mga tusong yan....pag gulo na....iwan ka sa ere.....:lol:

Subukan lang nila na iwan tayo sa ere. Mag-iingay kami sa labas ng White House :lol:

-SNPKLSDMBLDR-

August 19th, 2010, 04:50 PM

sino dito ang nakapanood ng The Correspondents sa ABS-CBN? pinakita nila doon ang air force, navy, army during their hay days, meron pala tayong aerobatic team na similar sa blue angels ng US called "blue diamonds". sayang lang dahil wala na sila ngayon. :ohno:

Arvor

August 19th, 2010, 05:21 PM

sino dito ang nakapanood ng The Correspondents sa ABS-CBN? pinakita nila doon ang air force, navy, army during their hay days, meron pala tayong aerobatic team na similar sa blue diamonds called "blue diamonds". sayang lang dahil wala na sila ngayon.

Hmmn interesting thanks for the heads up i think i found it online watching it now

To watch the said program episode click on links below :

http://www.pinoychannel.tv/watch/v-227339?title=THE CORRESPONDENTS - AUG. 17, 2010 PART 1/4
1

http://www.pinoychannel.tv/watch/v-227340?title=THE CORRESPONDENTS - AUG. 17, 2010 PART 2/4
2

http://www.pinoychannel.tv/watch/v-227341?title=THE CORRESPONDENTS - AUG. 17, 2010 PART 3/4
3

http://www.pinoychannel.tv/watch/v-227342?title=THE CORRESPONDENTS - AUG. 17, 2010 PART 4/4
4

Alinghi

August 19th, 2010, 05:21 PM

sino dito ang nakapanood ng The Correspondents sa ABS-CBN? pinakita nila doon ang air force, navy, army during their hay days, meron pala tayong aerobatic team na similar sa blue diamonds called "blue diamonds". sayang lang dahil wala na sila ngayon. :ohno:

i did.. nakakaawa talaga estado ng PAF.. 15th strike wing natin OV-10, MD-520, at SF-260 lang mabibilang mo pa sa daliri :ohno:

trainer natin Cessna T-41 konting ulan lang walang training flight na magaganap :ohno:

-SNPKLSDMBLDR-

August 19th, 2010, 05:30 PM

about sa air force lang pala yung episode.

Kintoy

August 19th, 2010, 05:31 PM

Blue Diamonds use F5 jets

http://www.afwing.com/gallery/displayteam/BlueDiamonds-1.jpg

-SNPKLSDMBLDR-

August 19th, 2010, 05:38 PM

the video of the blue diamonds flying looks unbelievable, ganon pala ka advance ang PAF noon, pero ngayon. nevermind.

Alinghi

August 19th, 2010, 05:44 PM

sulit talaga ang serbisyo ng mga F-5 sa atin lalo na sa territorial defense.. ang hindi ko lang gusto nag decommission na walang pamalit.. hindi naman kasi pwede ang S-211 at lalo na ang SF-260

yung mga F-8H Crusader ang walang kwenta nasira lang sa pagputok ng Mt. Pinatubo.. ito pa naman ang pinaka advanced na jet fighter nakuha natin at may all-weather capability pa.. hindi kasi pinasok sa hangar kahit alam nila na may impending eruption.. yun tuloy binenta lang as scrap :ohno:

http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/aipaul143/F8H311.jpg

-SNPKLSDMBLDR-

August 19th, 2010, 05:48 PM

ABSCBN_Corres

Noong 1995 pa naaprubahan ang modernization plan para sa buong sandatahang lakas ng Pilipinas.

Labinlimang taon matapos aprubahan ang modernization plan, sa 331 bilyong pisong nakalaan para dito, 31 bilyon palang daw ang nagagamit.

1949 nang binuo ni Kap.Jose Rancudo ang "Blue Diamonds" ng Phil.Air Force,para patunayan na mas magaling ang pilotong Pinoy kaysa dayuhan

Ang ginagawa ng "Blue Diamonds" na aerobatics ay mahigpit na ipinagbawal noon dahil sa maaring magkaaksidente sa ganitong klaseng paglipad.

Ang galing ng Phil. Air Force noon ay mahahalintulad sa galing ng Thunderbirds ng Amerika na noon ay nangunguna sa larangan ng paglipad.

Alinghi

August 19th, 2010, 05:51 PM

the video of the blue diamonds flying looks unbelievable, ganon pala ka advance ang PAF noon, pero ngayon. nevermind.

we were one of the best, if not Asia's best before the Marcos Regime took power (proof that we could have maintained that status if the culture of graft & corruption didn't take off in our country IMHO)

mga hapon, chinese, koreans, singaporeans, etc. before tumutulo laway nila looking at our Air Force.. well, look at them now.. bilog talaga ang mundo :lol:

spearhead

August 19th, 2010, 08:16 PM

hahahaha nakakatawa talaga ang AFP.... kaya tuwang tuwa sila joma sa kanila eh....

Nanflexal

August 20th, 2010, 03:27 AM

Anyway, the Philippine navy and the Philippine Airforce should be given the highest priority because they are both involve in fighting insurgency and protecting our economic wealth.

wrong.

our congressman and senator and AFP general should be given the highest priority depleting Philippines national budget.

gmaer

August 20th, 2010, 03:41 AM

Philippine military chief Lt. Gen. Ricardo David lamented his country’s weak military, which he said could not adequately patrol the Spratly Islands that it claims. With antiquated planes and ships, the Philippine military capability in the disputed areas is “almost negligible,” he said.

I doubt if Lt. Gen. Ricardo David was the one who actually said antiquated planes and ships or if it was the media downing the military because as I can remember a former Air Force chief challenged anyone (in the news) who will call the Philippine Air Force as flying coffins... I just can't remember the name of that general.

i did.. nakakaawa talaga estado ng PAF.. 15th strike wing natin OV-10, MD-520, at SF-260 lang mabibilang mo pa sa daliri :ohno:

trainer natin Cessna T-41 konting ulan lang walang training flight na magaganap :ohno:

Correction the SF-260 is also a training aircraft used together with the T-41.

the video of the blue diamonds flying looks unbelievable, ganon pala ka advance ang PAF noon, pero ngayon. nevermind.

The Blue Diamonds used to fly older aircraft like the P-51 Mustangs before the F-5s. It is not the aircraft but the pilots' skill that made them popular.

See History of the PAF Blue Diamonds (http://aerobaticteams.net/Philippine_Blue_Diamonds.html)

sulit talaga ang serbisyo ng mga F-5 sa atin lalo na sa territorial defense.. ang hindi ko lang gusto nag decommission na walang pamalit.. hindi naman kasi pwede ang S-211 at lalo na ang SF-260

yung mga F-8H Crusader ang walang kwenta nasira lang sa pagputok ng Mt. Pinatubo.. ito pa naman ang pinaka advanced na jet fighter nakuha natin at may all-weather capability pa.. hindi kasi pinasok sa hangar kahit alam nila na may impending eruption.. yun tuloy binenta lang as scrap :ohno:

Some of the F-8 Crusaders were trapped and destroyed inside their hangars when the hangars themselves were also destroyed by the Mt. Pinatubo eruption.

gmaer

August 20th, 2010, 04:13 AM

More important, it participated in several large-scale training exercises with American forces. From 2002 to 2004, the U.S. provided the AFP with a C-13 transport aircraft, two Point-class cutters, a Cyclone-class special-forces landing craft, 28 UH-1H Huey helicopters, and 30,000 M-16 assault rifles.[25] Training exercises between the AFP and U.S. Armed Forces were generally focused on counterinsurgency and counterterrorism warfare, logistics and equipment maintenance, intelligence training, and civil–military operations. The U.S. also agreed to train three light reaction companies that would form the AFP’s 1st Special Forces Group.

What C-13 transport aircraft? The Cyclone-class is not a landing craft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_craft). The said 3 Light Reaction Companies established what is now known as the Light Reaction Battalion because there was already a pre-existing Special Forces group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Operations_Command_(Philippines)) in the AFP.

Aside from providing military equipment and training to the AFP, the U.S. and the Philippines established the Joint Defense Agreement (JDA). Convened from 1999–2003, the JDA focused U.S. defense assistance on institutional reforms in the AFP. It also provided for continuous and significant American involvement in monitoring their implementation by the DND.

This is also where the US Military Assistance money is spent. The US Military Assistance is not all about giving the Philippines with military equipment therefore if you suggest that the $73 million be spend to buy brand new military hardware because the Philippines was able to order 8 Sokol helicopters from Poland for $67 million then what would be left for other programs?

The CUP encompasses the AFP’s long-term goal to develop its external defense capability in consonance with the concept of “retooling the force” as stipulated in the 2001 National Military Strategy.[29] The program stipulates an 18-year defense acquisition and resource management period divided into three six-year phases:

1. First phase (2006–2011): acquisition and upgrade of equipment for enhancing the AFP’s conduct of ISO.
2. Second phase (2012–2018): the transition phase from ISO capability-building to territorial defense.
3. Third phase (2019–2024): acquisition geared to territorial defense and peacekeeping operations.[30]

This proves to show that the AFP primary focus is on internal issues before dealing with external threats. It will be ironic that you are trying to match your neighbors force but you cannot take care of your homeland problems first.

Starting in 2006, the AFP plans to spend PHP 5 billion ($125 million) annually on equipment upgrades and acquisitions. In the first phase of the upgrade program, the AFP intends to restore at least 70 percent of its critical capabilities to conduct effective counterinsurgency operations. These capabilities include C41SR (command, control, computers, communications, intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance); mobility; firepower; and combat support. These capabilities are prioritized to increase the survival rate of frontline troops, thus significantly improving internal security operations. The CUP’s list now includes the acquisition of squad automatic weapons, HF/SSB Manpack Transceivers, armored recovery vehicles, Patrol Killer craft, and night-fighting equipment and upgrades and repair of BN Islander, OV-10 fixed-wing reconnaissance planes, Jacinto-class patrol craft, F-27-500 patrol aircraft, UH-1 helicopters, and V-150 armor fighting vehicles. Because first-phase projects emphasize developing the AFP’s internal security capability, they focus mainly on providing equipment to the army at the expense of Philippine Air Force (PAF) and Philippine Navy (PN) needs.

It is very clear that it is not the US but the AFP that wants to stick with their old weapons by upgrading them and extending their service life span.

The military establishment decided to shorten the initial six-year acquisition program (2006– 2011) to three years (2006–2008) so that it could fast-track purchases of this badly needed equipment. In 2007, President Arroyo approved an additional PHP 10 billion ($200 million) to acquire six refurbished UH-1H helicopters, 20 upgraded MD-520MG Defender attack helicopters, and a number of fast patrol craft for river operations.[31]

Proves further on my claim that it is the Philippines that negotiates for 2nd hand military armaments not the USA.

Yet even with renewed U.S. commitment after 2001, the AFP’s overall combat capability has not recovered from its decline in the 1990s. Much of its aging and nearly obsolete military equipment, dependent on U.S. military assistance for maintenance and repairs, became unserviceable or was cannibalized for parts and to reduce maintenance costs.

It is maintenance costs that deprives the AFP of brand new military equipment which is why these costs which should have been the responsibility of your own government is also being shouldered by Uncle Sam or should I say Papa Sam!

The AFP needs new defense materiel to execute territorial security operations. Current priorities are the acquisition of 17 UH-1H transport and six attack helicopters.

* Encourage and coordinate programs of military assistance by other U.S. bilateral allies to the Philippines. In the past, South Korea, Australia, Thailand, and even Japan have provided the Philippines with some of their excess defense articles. Recently, the Republic of Korea provided the PN with two Patrol Killer Medium (PKM) craft. The U.S. can informally encourage its allies to give Manila more surplus defense articles as grants or as long-term loans and to guarantee that their security programs aimed at assisting the AFP will be responsive to the requirements of Philippine territorial defense.

What is Excess Defense Articles (http://www.dsca.osd.mil/programs/eda/edamain.htm)? This tells us why most donated military equipment under the US Military Assistance program are not brand new.

jpdm

August 20th, 2010, 06:21 AM

sige pagamit na naman kayo sa kano alam nyo naman na interes lang nila ang nasa puso ng mga tusong yan....pag gulo na....iwan ka sa ere.....:lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

jpdm

August 20th, 2010, 06:26 AM

i did.. nakakaawa talaga estado ng PAF.. 15th strike wing natin OV-10, MD-520, at SF-260 lang mabibilang mo pa sa daliri :ohno:

trainer natin Cessna T-41 konting ulan lang walang training flight na magaganap :ohno:

hahahaha nakakatawa talaga ang AFP.... kaya tuwang tuwa sila joma sa kanila eh....

I agree with april boy.

Time to buy (procure) brand new armaments with our own money. Now if the US will provide equipments under their military assistance program for the Philippines, hopefully military authorities request for brand new also.

gmaer

August 20th, 2010, 07:01 AM

I agree with april boy.

Time to buy (procure) brand new armaments with our own money. Now if the US will provide equipments under their military assistance program for the Philippines, hopefully military authorities request for brand new also.

The US did like when they offered the F-16 to the Philippine Air Force and even tried to surpass Israel's offer for the KFIR fighter jet but the Philippines still cannot afford it even at a better deal so they invested on trainer jets instead which is now known as the S-211 using the gulaman trade that was supposed to be used to acquire the IAI KFIR.

Alinghi

August 20th, 2010, 07:33 AM

i could just imagine if the 1997 asian financial crisis didn't happen at all.. we would surely have squadrons of F-16's today

the reason why we got the S-211's instead was simply the skyrocketing price of the multi-role fighters at that time due to inflation and the wild depreciation of the Peso.. even the Kfirs were out of the question.. so damage limitation, buy jet trainer's to do the multi-role assignment

nabiktima tayo ng mga pangyayari sa global economy :ohno:

mwg12a

August 20th, 2010, 07:55 AM

What C-13 transport aircraft? The Cyclone-class is not a landing craft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_craft). The said 3 Light Reaction Companies established what is now known as the Light Reaction Battalion because there was already a pre-existing Special
Forces group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Operations_Command_(Philippines)) in the AFP.

Proves further on my claim that it is the Philippines that negotiates for 2nd hand military armaments not the USA.

I admire your enthusiasm and patience on these issues we've all been discussing, it's basically what I would be saying exactly as well (and has been saying all these while) particularly on that part where it has been AFP all along were the ones responsible for negtiating these second hand equipments which has been the main subject of our debates with april. You just said it all in a more detailed matter dissecting each and every phrases of the topics. I agree on all of them. Most of it are not given entirely for free but more on credit in form of these:

Military Assistance Program (MAP) and the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) credit

Brown Tiger

August 20th, 2010, 01:11 PM

The US did like when they offered the F-16 to the Philippine Air Force and even tried to surpass Israel's offer for the KFIR fighter jet but the Philippines still cannot afford it even at a better deal so they invested on trainer jets instead which is now known as the S-211 using the gulaman trade that was supposed to be used to acquire the IAI KFIR.

There is More Pride for us to have an F-16 in the PAF inventory than the KFIR's and I think Noynoy's Leadership can achieve this... Say in 1-2 two years time... I do Believe..

A Squadron of F-16 is Enough for RP's Defense

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/f16.png

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/f16b-1.png

gmaer

August 21st, 2010, 01:57 AM

Welcome back Brown Tiger! You missed our war with April Boy!

IAI KFIR for the Philippines (http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=2507.0)

The IAI KFIR deal actually won over the American F-16 during that time and Israel rented a few of their KFIRs to the Philippine Air Force for testing and evaluation but no deal was made because of the Asian Financial Crisis. The PAF instead opted for the S-211 to train pilots for future plans to acquire supersonic fighter jets. The S-211 was not initially bought for combat use but because there was no immediate replacement to the retired F-5s the S-211 substituted for air defense.

gmaer

August 21st, 2010, 01:58 AM

Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=604492&publicationSubCategoryId=200)
(philstar.com) Updated August 20, 2010 01:00 AM

When 18-year-old Spc. Luke Dill first rolled into Iraq as part of the U.S. invasion, his Humvee was so vulnerable to bombs that the troops lined its floor with flak jackets.

Now April Boy where are you? Do you still want brand new Humvees from the US? It's like you wanna give rolling metal coffins to Filipino soldiers for free... Come on think of a better suggestion!

http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/files/images/destroyed-humvee-iraq.jpg

Do you want more shocking truth about the infamous Humvee?

Use of Humvees restricted in Afghanistan (http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/06/gns_humvee_restriction_063010/)
By Tom Vanden Brook - USA Today
Posted : Wednesday Jun 30, 2010 15:37:01 EDT

WASHINGTON — Top commanders in Afghanistan have further tightened restrictions on the use of vulnerable vehicles after roadside bomb attacks that have killed eight U.S. soldiers since late May.

The new rules come as attacks from improvised explosive devices (IEDs) have spiked to record levels and insurgents create ever more lethal bombs.

One of those bombs killed five soldiers June 7 when it destroyed their Humvee in eastern Afghanistan.

The Humvee’s fatal flaw, a 2008 Pentagon inspector general’s report found, is that its “flat bottom, low weight, low ground clearance and aluminum body” leave it vulnerable to IEDs buried in roads. Military officials had known of that weakness since 1994, according to the report.

At the time of the attack in June, troops needed at least a lieutenant colonel to approve leaving a protected base in a Humvee, according to Maj. Patrick Seiber, an Army spokesman for forces in eastern Afghanistan.

This month, the commander of coalition forces in the region raised the authorization for Humvee use to the level of colonel, Seiber said in an e-mail.

The change by Maj. Gen. John Campbell, commander of Combined Joint Task Force-101, had been discussed for some time, Seiber said, and was not simply a reaction to the attack.

The bombing, like all attacks that result in troop deaths, is under investigation by the military, Seiber said.

The new requirement for a colonel’s authorization is an overreaction to tragic events, said Dakota Wood, a military analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments. He noted that a lieutenant colonel has about 20 years of experience.

Sergeants and junior officers often have the most relevant experience in combat, Wood said. Top officers should rely on their subordinates’ judgment about the danger on roads and the vehicles required for Afghanistan’s rugged terrain, he said.

“Out of concern for high casualty levels because of roadside bombs, senior leaders appear to be taking decisions out of the hands of subordinates,” Wood said.

Roadside bomb attacks have soared in Afghanistan.

The 1,128 IED attacks in May were more than double the same month in 2009, according to the Pentagon’s Joint IED Defeat Organization. Attacks that wounded or killed coalition troops increased by 205 percent.

Those bombs killed 134 servicemembers from January through May and wounded 1,052, records show.

A suicide car-bomb attack on an armored sport-utility vehicle in Kabul on May 18 killed a U.S. colonel, a Canadian colonel and two U.S. lieutenant colonels. The attack killed the most high-ranking U.S. officers since the war began in 2001.

Col. Wayne Shanks, a spokesman for the military leadership in Kabul, said commanders continually assess insurgent threats and take measures to protect troops.

Commanders have to balance protection with conducting the counterinsurgency campaign, he said.

“We have to convince the Afghan people we are here to help their government and them,” Shanks said in an e-mail. “You can’t do that from inside an armored vehicle. No amount of armor protection will protect troops from some of the IEDs we’ve seen in the recent months.”

The military’s newest defense against IEDs — an all-terrain armored truck — has helped troops survive dozens of attacks in Afghanistan and could help defuse the insurgents’ most effective weapon against coalition troops, according to military officials and analysts.

The all-terrain version of the Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicle was designed specifically for Afghanistan’s poor roads and rugged terrain.

The MRAPs produced for Iraq aren’t nimble enough for much of Afghanistan, and their ride was bone-jarring for troops in the back, said Marine Brig. Gen. Michael Brogan, who leads the Pentagon effort to field the trucks for Afghanistan.

The first all-terrain MRAPs arrived in Afghanistan late last year.

A Marine battalion commander in restive Helmand province reported that insurgents had destroyed 50 of the all-terrain vehicles with improvised explosive devices, Brogan said. The most serious wound suffered in the attacks was a bad concussion. Nobody died, the commander told Brogan in an e-mail. The trucks have seats for four troops and a turret for a gunner.

“The troops really love these vehicles,” Brogan said.

Navy Capt. Jack Hanzlik, a Central Command spokesman, said there have been about 200 IED attacks against the all-terrain MRAPs between January and June. The attacks resulted in several deaths and a number of injuries, but the death and injury rates would have been much more significant had troops not been in those vehicles, Hanzlik said.

Commanders have issued urgent requests for more than 8,000 of the trucks to protect troops from roadside bombs. About 3,000 of the vehicles are in Afghanistan, and the remainder will arrive in November.

Their raised chassis and V-shaped bottoms can protect troops by putting them farther from the blast and deflecting its force.

The vehicles’ off-road ability makes U.S. forces less predictable, Brogan said.

“We can make the targeting challenge more difficult for the enemy,” he said. “If we can go where they’re not expecting us, you might not run into a bomb.”

The trucks have the potential to be “hugely important” in defeating the insurgency, said Michael O’Hanlon, a military analyst at the Brookings Institution, a think tank.

april boy

August 21st, 2010, 03:35 AM

Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=604492&publicationSubCategoryId=200)
(philstar.com) Updated August 20, 2010 01:00 AM

Now April Boy where are you? Do you still want brand new Humvees from the US? It's like you wanna give rolling metal coffins to Filipino soldiers for free... Come on think of a better suggestion!

http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/files/images/destroyed-humvee-iraq.jpg

Do you want more shocking truth about the infamous Humvee?

Use of Humvees restricted in Afghanistan (http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/06/gns_humvee_restriction_063010/)
By Tom Vanden Brook - USA Today
Posted : Wednesday Jun 30, 2010 15:37:01 EDT

Im here! missed me?

I just want to remind you that I mentioned the humvee because its one of the examples of brand new armaments that we can ask from the US. But Im quite sure, a fleet of brand new humvees will be a great addition to our AFP especially in MIndanao or other areas.

In addition, the situation in Afghanistan is quite different in the Philippines.Do we have the same incidents here as depicted in the article you mentioned?

The 1,128 IED attacks in May were more than double the same month in 2009, according to the Pentagon’s Joint IED Defeat Organization. Attacks that wounded or killed coalition troops increased by 205 percent.

Do you think the humvee is the only one vulnerable to EID attack? The Us army official himself said...

No amount of armor protection will protect troops from some of the IEDs we’ve seen in the recent months.”

And if the humvee do have that weakness them the AFP should deploy the humvees in areas with no EIDs (assuming hypothetically that insurgents in the country have those powerful and numerous IED that have blown up numerous humvees or trucks in the country)

Anyway, if you think brand new humvees are not good, how about this new vehicle for the Afghan sorties of the US mentioned by the article?

The military’s newest defense against IEDs — an all-terrain armored truck — has helped troops survive dozens of attacks in Afghanistan and could help defuse the insurgents’ most effective weapon against coalition troops, according to military officials and analysts.

The all-terrain version of the Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicle was designed specifically for Afghanistan’s poor roads and rugged terrain.

So I think we can request for some brand new of these MRAP, right?

By the way, do you think second hand trucks are not metal coffins too?

Anyway, I reiterate my position...brand new armaments should be the priority of the AFP. if we cant get it from the USA, then get it from other countries or even the Philippines.

If the PN headquarters "deal" finally pushed through the AFP should buy brand new and stop buying flying, crawling second hand metal coffins.

gmaer

August 21st, 2010, 04:27 AM

Im here! missed me?

I sure did! :banana:

I just want to remind you that I mentioned the humvee because its one of the examples of brand new armaments that we can ask from the US. But Im quite sure, a fleet of brand new humvees will be a great addition to our AFP especially in MIndanao or other areas.

I have mentioned earlier that the AFP already has Humvees of all kinds and also introduced their own locally made versions which are the MX-7 Gagamba and the MX-8 Barako which serves the same purpose as the Humvee.

In addition, the situation in Afghanistan is quite different in the Philippines.

The roadside bombs used against the Humvees in Afghanistan and Iraq are the same IEDs used by the local insurgents in Mindanao. Remember that the ASG/MILF has links to the Taliban forces in Afghanistan and Iraq. Some of them underwent training there therefore bomb making technology has been a shared practice.

Anyway, if you think brand new humvees are not good, how about this new vehicle for the Afghan sorties of the US mentioned by the article?

So I think we can request for some brand new of these MRAP, right?

And then you retracted from the Humvees... :banana:

The MRAPs are intended to be used exclusively in Iraq and Afghanistan as replacements to the vulnerable Humvees there. There is no excess defense article yet for the MRAPs because the number of production was limited for those foreign missions. You have to wait for more years until the MRAPs become available under foreign military sales.

http://equipmentfinance.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/cougar_series-mrap-vs-humvee.jpg
Cougar MRAP face to face with the Humvee

A drawback about the MRAP is that aside from being fuel hungry (a logistical problem for the AFP especially in combat zones) its size will not fit a C-130 plane (which the PAF uses for air lifting operations) nor an amphibious support ship (if this is true then it will definitely not fit Philippine Navy LSTs because these ships are smaller than those used by the US Navy). The height of the MRAP is as tall as a tree or a basketball ring/board stand therefore it will be difficult to hide it thus making it an easy target for RPGs!

By the way, do you think second hand trucks are not metal coffins too?

Yes they are but the Humvees are armor-protected compared to the 2nd hand trucks which made it more ironic.

Anyway, I reiterate my position...brand new armaments should be the priority of the AFP. if we cant get it from the USA, then get it from other countries or even the Philippines.

Like what country other than Poland? :banana:

If the PN headquarters "deal" finally pushed through the AFP should buy brand new and stop buying flying, crawling second hand metal coffins.

The PN headquarters deal will be used to buy 4 warships not air assets besides the B0-105 helicopter that crashed wasn't 2nd hand.

april boy

August 21st, 2010, 04:49 AM

I sure did! :banana:I have mentioned earlier that the AFP already has Humvees of all kinds and also introduced their own locally made versions which are the MX-7 Gagamba and the MX-8 Barako which serves the same purpose as the Humvee.
The more the better.:)

Actually, again, just to emphasize, if you care to understand, as just mentioned the humvee as an example. We can ask for other brand new armaments.
The roadside bombs used against the Humvees in Afghanistan and Iraq are the same IEDs used by the local insurgents in Mindanao. Remember that the ASG/MILF has links to the Taliban forces in Afghanistan and Iraq. Some of them underwent training there therefore bomb making technology has been a shared practice.
But I cant remember that about 1,128 IED roadside attacks in one month actually were made in the Philippines. hence, we cant compare the situation in Afghanistan or Iraq to our situation in the Philippines.

The 1,128 IED attacks in May were more than double the same month in 2009, according to the Pentagon’s Joint IED Defeat Organization. Attacks that wounded or killed coalition troops increased by 205 percent.

And then you retracted from the Humvees... :banana:

Yes and no..

Because humvees are just one of the examples of brand new items that we can request from the US. Instead of second hand junk armaments that we can definitely consider as more metal coffins than brand new armaments.

On the other hand, because the situation in the Philippines is far different from the situation you mentioned (in the article in Afghanistan and Iraq), the humvees will still be a very good option specially if mounted with missiles..:cheers:
The MRAPs are intended to be used exclusively in Iraq and Afghanistan as replacements to the vulnerable Humvees there.
Just to confirm my idea that we have a different situation here. Then go with brand new humvees again. There are far less IED roadside attacks here.

Plus, those MRAP can also be added to the list.:cheers:Instead of second hands..

There is no excess defense article yet for the MRAPs because the number of production was limited for those foreign missions. You have to wait for more years until the MRAPs become available under foreign military sales.Then, brand new humvees with missiles will be ok for the meantime.:)
And its worth the wait as long as they are brand new and not excess material:):)

Yes they are but the Humvees are armor-protected compared to the 2nd hand trucks which made it more ironic.
Still better that second hand.So brand new humvees are ok.
Like what country other than Poland? :banana:
yes, definitely! Why stick with second hands from the junkyards of the USA:nuts::lol::)
The PN headquarters deal will be used to buy 4 warships not air assets besides the B0-105 helicopter that crashed wasn't 2nd hand.

Good and so be brand new instead of flying, floating and crawling second hand junk armaments.:lol::lol::)

gmaer

August 21st, 2010, 05:38 AM

The more the better.:)

The more means more money will be withdrawn from the National Budget to maintain and operate such vehicles. You are thinking like Pyongyang!

Actually, again, just to emphasize, if you care to understand, as just mentioned the humvee as an example. We can ask for other brand new armaments.

Like what other brand new armaments?

But I cant remember that about 1,128 IED roadside attacks in one month actually were made in the Philippines. hence, we cant compare the situation in Afghanistan or Iraq to our situation in the Philippines.

The enemy already knows the weakness of the Humvee and you still want to employ them?

Because humvees are just one of the examples of brand new items that we can request from the US. Instead of second hand junk armaments that we can definitely consider as more metal coffins than brand new armaments.

The Humvee is no different with the 2nd hand trucks that South Korea donated to the Philippines when faced with an IED - they will both be destroyed in an instant!

On the other hand, because the situation in the Philippines is far different from the situation you mentioned (in the article in Afghanistan and Iraq), the humvees will still be a very good option specially if mounted with missiles..:cheers:

What? Missiles?? Do you want this April Boy's Humvee with Missiles (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kryptonheidt/4423070075/)?

Just to confirm my idea that we have a different situation here. Then go with brand new humvees again. There are far less IED roadside attacks here.

Easy for you to say! You were the one who told us that you have an Air Force friend who claims that not all accidents are reported in the news. Well one of those bad news is that many combat areas in Mindanao are laden with land mines and roadside bombs.

Plus, those MRAP can also be added to the list.:cheers:Instead of second hands..

Not yet :bash:

Then, brand new humvees with missiles will be ok for the meantime.:)
And its worth the wait as long as they are brand new and not excess material:):)

Only excess materials are being sold and what will be the purpose of arming Humvees with missiles?

Good and so be brand new instead of flying, floating and crawling second hand junk armaments.:lol::lol::)

Shame on your ignorance!

mwg12a

August 21st, 2010, 06:11 AM

Alinghi

August 21st, 2010, 06:12 AM

@April Boy

dude, can't you see all people here in this thread and who-knows-what are laughing at your ignorance and unfounded persistence?

get a life dude.. tsk3x

gmaer

August 21st, 2010, 06:49 AM

I think the Philippine government can always ask any country we have diplomatic relationship to give us other brand new equipment, but that wouldn't be free. It has a price tag. IF we have enough credit a grant would be made.... The question is, will it fall under Philippine military budget?

Correct! The price of a brand new military equipment can be lowered or be sold at a better deal but it will all boil down to the cost to maintain and operate that war machine. For example the unit cost of an F-16 in 1998 was $18.8 million and in 2005 was $26.9 million but the cost to maintain and operate it is $3,600 per hour (http://www.mirage-jet.com/AIRFRAME/MAINTE_1/mainte_1.htm). Can the PAF afford that every hour every day every week every month every year to patrol Philippine skies?

Most countries would donate equipment for free are usually second hand equipments. I mean I don't think they would just give up their brand new equipments for free WHEN THEY BADLY needed it themselves and would cost them even more in their countries budget to acquire brand another set of brand new equipments. Even if those aircrafts newer than Hueys for instance, it would still be "second hand" which in a harsher comment is also "junk" because it's been put to so much mileage and uses, Don't you think?

A 2nd hand military equipment like a fighter jet can be optimized to have an almost zero airframe and usage. For example:

Israel Aircraft Industries F-21 KFIR Aircraft Returns to America to Support U.S. Navy and U.S. Air Force Training Programs (http://www.iai.co.il/23860-24921-EN/default.aspx)

"IAI's Kfir aircraft are much more cost-effective to perform these missions than the service's front line assets, while still delivering similar performance," said Jeff Parker, ATAC's President. "It also saves life on U.S. Military aircraft and enhances the quality of the military's dissimilar training. Each of the Kfir aircraft will have zero-time engines and airframes, completely refurbished by IAI. IAI's support will help ensure aircraft availability, reliability and safety for the entire operation," added Parker.

You can no longer buy a brand new IAI KFIR nowadays but only upgraded ones.

ferny123

August 21st, 2010, 07:18 AM

Goodbye Iraq: Last US combat brigade heads home (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=604492&publicationSubCategoryId=200)
(philstar.com) Updated August 20, 2010 01:00 AM

Now April Boy where are you? Do you still want brand new Humvees from the US? It's like you wanna give rolling metal coffins to Filipino soldiers for free... Come on think of a better suggestion!

http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/files/images/destroyed-humvee-iraq.jpg

Do you want more shocking truth about the infamous Humvee?

Use of Humvees restricted in Afghanistan (http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/06/gns_humvee_restriction_063010/)
By Tom Vanden Brook - USA Today
Posted : Wednesday Jun 30, 2010 15:37:01 EDT

well any kind of basic military transport would fail vs the ied. armored personel carriers are the only ones capable of surviving an ied intact.

so afp must buy cost effective transport. in a locally made transport is more expensive than the humvee well buy humvee's but if locally made vehicles are cheaper then go for locally made ones.

gmaer

August 21st, 2010, 07:27 AM

well any kind of basic military transport would fail vs the ied. armored personel carriers are the only ones capable of surviving an ied intact.

Not all APCs :)

http://images.abolkhaseb.net/us-casulties/ied22.jpg
Stryker APC destroyed by IED

so afp must buy cost effective transport. in a locally made transport is more expensive than the humvee well buy humvee's but if locally made vehicles are cheaper then go for locally made ones.

Exactly! Cost effective military equipment that is low cost to buy, maintain and operate is the key in making a good proposal but such find will be difficult!

bitoy

August 21st, 2010, 08:10 AM

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02Rn31vh0b8yh/610x.jpg

Philippine Navy officials salute the coffins of Lieutenant Tristan Joseph Corpuz and Lieutenant Junior Grade Jayrald Tamayo, who were killed in a helicopter crash, upon arrival of the coffins at Villamor air base in Pasay city, metro Manila August 20, 2010. Tamayo and Corpuz were piloting a Bolkow helicopter on a routine flight mission to document the Inshore Combat Tactics Training on Santa Cruz island, Zamboanga.

april boy

August 21st, 2010, 01:36 PM

@April Boy

dude, can't you see all people here in this thread and who-knows-what are laughing at your ignorance and unfounded persistence?

get a life dude.. tsk3x

Nice fantastic claim from a pretentious ignoramus? You cant even undertsand what Im saying dude.

Besides, what is your claim, that I cant see all people here in this thread are laughing at my ignorance?

Or should I say I should laugh at your fantastic claim or blatant lie? In the first place Im just arguing with gmaer and a pretentious you lying for claiming that all people are laughing at me?

Unfounded persistance?

Or maybe you are too ignorant to know what Im talking about? Its you who need to get a life, dude..

tsktsk to the tenth power.

Mind you own business dude.

april boy

August 21st, 2010, 01:44 PM

I think the Philippine government can always ask any country we have diplomatic relationship to give us other brand new equipment, but that wouldn't be free. It has a price tag.Agree with these.:)

Only the US and probably South Korea (is it the T-41 trainer aircraft given in disassembled form them reassembled in our country?) can give us free armaments. Of course, only the US is capable of giving us grants at a limited scale.

IF we have enough credit a grant would be made.... The question is, will it fall under Philippine military budget?

Or the grant falls under the US military assistance.

Most countries would donate equipment for free are usually second hand equipments. :)
Yes, agree. Mostly US allies like South Korea and Thailand.
I mean I don't think they would just give up their brand new equipments for free WHEN THEY BADLY needed it themselves and would cost them even more in their countries budget to acquire brand another set of brand new equipments. Agree again.:)

Even if those aircrafts newer than Hueys for instance, it would still be "second hand" which in a harsher comment is also "junk" because it's been put to so much mileage and uses, Don't you think?

Not necessary junks but second hand.:)

april boy

August 21st, 2010, 02:00 PM

The more means more money will be withdrawn from the National Budget to maintain and operate such vehicles. You are thinking like Pyongyang!How come? Especially if the request falls under the budget under the US military assistance to the Philippines as grant (free)?

And besides, and obviously either you failed to read carefully my previous posts or your ability to understand has failed you, my position is clear and consistent, ask (for grant) or buy (procure) brand new equipments within the allotted budget or based on our financial capability.

by the way, are all brand new equipments expensive? Especially if you are buying the not so hitech top of the line models?Im thinking like Pyong yang? How kind of stupid comment is this?
Like what other brand new armaments?Any brand new armament thats within our budget and within the alooted budget of the US for her military assistance program for our country that will boost the combat capability of the AFP.
The enemy already knows the weakness of the Humvee and you still want to employ them?Yes, because the situation in the Philippines is definitely different compared to Afghanistan and Iraq. almost 1,200 IED roadside attacks i a month. Do we have that here? And besides, im sure the philippine military knows what you know about the weakness of the humvee so why would they deploy such armaments in suspected IED laden areas?

By the way why fixated with the humvee? Just because i mentioned it? Whereas I explained that I mentioned it because it can be one of the examples of brand new materials that we can request or buy from the US.

Anyway, let me ask you this simple question, is a brand new humvee or any other brand new military equipment if given to us a welcome addition to our arsenal despite its weakness? Do you think it will not boost our AFP's combat capability?

The Humvee is no different with the 2nd hand trucks that South Korea donated to the Philippines when faced with an IED - they will both be destroyed in an instant!

Of course. As one poster pointed out:

Originally Posted by ferny123
well any kind of basic military transport would fail vs the ied. armored personel carriers are the only ones capable of surviving an ied intact.

gmaer do you really understand what Im saying? I just made the humvee as an example. All I care about is we are given or we buy brand new equipments. Im not an expert in the capability of each military hardware but Im very sure that A BRAND NEW EQUIPMENT WILL WORK BETTER THAN A SECOND HAND (same type) (think about engine wear etc).

Now, do you agree?

What? Missiles?? Do you want this April Boy's Humvee with Missiles (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kryptonheidt/4423070075/)?
If its not possible to mount missile launchers in humvees, how about powerful machineguns?

Now if my suggestions are not possible, brand new humvees can be used to transport troops.

Di ba welcome addition sila especially kung brand new, low maintenance at baka may warranty pa?

Easy for you to say! You were the one who told us that you have an Air Force friend who claims that not all accidents are reported in the news. Well one of those bad news is that many combat areas in Mindanao are laden with land mines and roadside bombs.
Yes. and he is referring to malfunctioning hueys. Hueys are not affected by landmines or roadside bombs.:lol:

About roadside bombs and landmines in Mindanao, Im very interested. How many 1,200 roadside IED attacks in one month din?

Not yet :bash::bash: din..

Only excess materials are being sold and what will be the purpose of arming Humvees with missiles?

for combat.What else?

Shame on your ignorance!Ignorance? You should also be ashamed for justifying the practice of buying second hands that always put the lives of our soldiers in peril. Shame on you too for poor comprehension and poor logic.

Its very simple gmaer and stop pretending also that you understand what I say.

Stop justifying the idea of buying old planes and armaments and posting articles that you yourself do not understand. and stop making erroneous coclusion based on your poor understanding of my posts.

Anyway, my position remains very very clear. I hope the AFP will go for brand new armaments either coming from the US military assistance ( within the allotted budget) or we buy brand new from local or foreign sources other than the US (within our limited budget).

Now, let me ask you, is this idea of buying new armaments for our AFP a bad thing or not?

I really dont care if its a humvee , a machine gun or an F-16 as long as the armaments are brand new and can boost the combat capability of our AFP and the costs fall within our budget or financial capability..

To give our troops a fighting chance, in peace and in war.

april boy

August 21st, 2010, 02:47 PM

If we cant get brand new from the US (as grant or through procurement- because brand new US military equipment materials being expensive) we can always go to other suppliers....

DND talking with 4 foreign governments on buying military equipment

By Alexis Romero
(The Philippine Star)
Updated April 26, 2010 12:00 AM Comments (28) View comments

MANILA, Philippines - The Department of National Defense is in talks with four foreign governments on the possible purchase of military equipment, even as some sectors have raised concerns about possible “midnight deals” being hatched by the outgoing Arroyo administration.

“I do not want this business of suspecting the AFP (Armed Forces of the Philippines) each time it makes a major procurement. I said we will not deal with private contractors. The modernization that we will try to do will be between governments,” Defense Secretary Norberto Gonzales told reporters over the weekend.

Gonzales revealed that Canada, Italy, Israel and South Korea have already laid down their respective offers.

“The Canadians are offering long-range patrol aircraft and medium-lift capability. The Italians are doing the same. Israel is looking at the possibility of giving us combat helicopters and communication systems. The Koreans are telling me they are prepared to give us a credit line of up to $2 billion,” he said.

Gonzales said he is also awaiting a proposal from the French government.

The defense chief said they would still review the offers and expressed hope that the delivery of the equipment would be done within the next two years.

Critics fear that the last-minute projects of the Arroyo administration would be fraught with massive corruption and irregularities.

Last week, Liberal Party presidential bet Sen. Benigno “Noynoy” Aquino III warned against the government’s “midnight deals” and called on foreign suppliers not to transact with the outgoing administration.

He also vowed to strictly scrutinize the Arroyo administration’s latest transactions.

“If such midnight deals are concluded just the same, they must all be subjected to the strictest scrutiny and immediately rescinded whenever warranted,” Aquino said.

“Every peso stolen from the budget of our security organizations represents a drop of blood of our soldiers, airmen, sailors and police officers who risk their lives in the service of our nation,” he added.

Gonzales admitted that the government is into an “11th hour” preparation to modernize the AFP, but claimed that nothing is illegal with it.

“Yes, we are rushing what we can still do under the AFP modernization program in our very limited time left,” he said. “Aren’t we, Filipinos, known to be good in the last two minutes?”

The DND chief also said the acquisition of new military equipment would enhance the country’s defense capabilities and restore national pride.

The government is planning to buy an armor system for the Army, multi-role vessels for the Navy and long-range patrol aircraft, medium lift aircraft and attack helicopters for the Air Force in the next two to three years.

Malacañang has issued an “obligation authority” to the DND to allow it to enter into multi-year contracts. The scheme is in the 2010 national budget signed into law by President Arroyo last February.

Without such authority, the DND can only spend up to P5 billion per year from the modernization funds.

Alinghi

August 21st, 2010, 03:17 PM

landmines are even used by the NPA in Samar.. i wonder if it could have been a BRAND-NEW Humvee :omg:

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/regions/view/20100821-288039/Eight-policemen-killed-in-Samar-ambush

april boy

August 21st, 2010, 06:04 PM

april boy

August 21st, 2010, 06:19 PM

I think there is a little bit of confusion in areas where "funds" would be coming from..... I highlighted that portion in question. There is the word "if"... And where would be the equipments coming from?

Thanks for asking this question.

When I said buy, it means it will come from the modernization program fund of the AFP.Brand new equipments will come based on the winning bidder (that met the specification of the AFP).:)

So it may not be the US.:)

I think initially, the debate is about US grants to the Philippines and their donated equipments as an act of goodwill for allowing the US troops in the Philippine soil and the use of the Philippine facilities... In your article, it was clearly stated where the fund would be coming from which is the Philippine coppers instead of donation or US assistance because of these words "The government has inked a contract worth P3 billion with PZL Swienik Company of Poland".

Correct sir.:)

Now, having said these, it only goes to show that "yes, the Philippine government has all the right to request for a brand new equipment according to their own specification because they contracted Poland for these deal which means it is a loan the Philippine government would be making payments with as opposed to the United States providing the Philippine troops second hand equipments as an act of goodwill.

The Philippines did not request for brand new equipment but made a plan and decided to buy brand new for its AFP modernization hence, the refurbished Israeli Cobra deal was scrapped in favor of brand new helicopters from a Polish manufacturer (who won the bidding). And the money that the AFP will use in buying those Sokol helicopters will come from the modernization budget of the AFP.

This is where we are all having these real heavy debate. I am sure the Philippine panel would opt to get brandnew but since some of these are being donated on top of brandnew armament given for free would be a bit too excessive on the Philippine side to be requesting brand new equipments.
Regarding request for brand new armaments under the US military assistance program of the Philippines (as pointed out by the paper made by a DLSU Prof), we can raise the issue when we negotiate with the US. And because of limited funds or budget we can hope for smaller and cheaper brand new items.

Those Huey Helicopters were a surplus given by the US some four (4) decades ago so yes, they are all aging aircrafts that is even harder and expensive to maintain which is also deemed as unreliable anymore.

Thats why there is a need to buy new ones. And this is my very clear and unwavering position.

I don't think the US gov should be critisized entirely for donating those Huey helicopters because it is the Philippine government's responsibility to keep their military capability up to date.

Indeed. I did not entirely criticized the US government especially when the US granted us new patrol boats and perhaps new precision missiles.

Simple Dude

August 21st, 2010, 06:37 PM

Article: Philippine air force to buy 16 new helicopters

Article from:
Xinhua News Agency
Article date:
July 8, 2007 CopyrightCopyright 2009 Xinhua News Agency.

Philippine air force to buy 16 new helicopters

MANILA, July 8 (Xinhua) -- The Philippine Air Force is planning to buy 16 brand new utility and attack helicopters with 5 billion peso (108 million U.S. dollars), the military said on Sunday.

Armed Forces Vice Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Antonio Romero said they may start the bidding process for the aircraft this month after Air Force officials submit the specks of …

^^ hmm mga additional orders ba to?? hehe kasi nalilito na ako eh diba sabi dati 8 combat utility helicopters 15 attack night capable heli. and additional 15 UH-1 heli. and etc,... at ngayon ito?? i need clarification, could anyone please?? hehe:colgate: asyd from the date,... =))

Simple Dude

August 21st, 2010, 07:44 PM

uhm Guys What main aircraft do you prefer for our territorial defense?? coz for me its F-16 with supersonic inlet...:lol:

gmaer

August 22nd, 2010, 12:32 AM

If we cant get brand new from the US (as grant or through procurement- because brand new US military equipment materials being expensive) we can always go to other suppliers....

Be careful of what article you post because this is old news...

“The Canadians are offering long-range patrol aircraft and medium-lift capability. The Italians are doing the same. Israel is looking at the possibility of giving us combat helicopters and communication systems. The Koreans are telling me they are prepared to give us a credit line of up to $2 billion,” he said.

The Canadians are offering their 2nd hand CP-140 Aurora (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_CP-140_Aurora) maritime patrol aircraft while Israel offered their 2nd hand reconditioned AH-1 Cobra attack helicopters but was rejected (referring to the Israeli Cobras) by the Philippine Air Force.

gmaer

August 22nd, 2010, 01:00 AM

Article: Philippine air force to buy 16 new helicopters

Article from:
Xinhua News Agency
Article date:
July 8, 2007 CopyrightCopyright 2009 Xinhua News Agency.

Philippine air force to buy 16 new helicopters

MANILA, July 8 (Xinhua) -- The Philippine Air Force is planning to buy 16 brand new utility and attack helicopters with 5 billion peso (108 million U.S. dollars), the military said on Sunday.

Armed Forces Vice Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Antonio Romero said they may start the bidding process for the aircraft this month after Air Force officials submit the specks of …

Article dated July 8, 2007... 3 years has past and where are the 16 new helicopters now? Did you ever bother to research those articles that you posted?

april boy

August 22nd, 2010, 02:42 AM

^^ hmm mga additional orders ba to?? hehe kasi nalilito na ako eh diba sabi dati 8 combat utility helicopters 15 attack night capable heli. and additional 15 UH-1 heli. and etc,... at ngayon ito?? i need clarification, could anyone please?? hehe:colgate: asyd from the date,... =))

2007 bibili daw ng 16 brand new according to the news (Chinese). To cut the long story short, today, close na deal sa 8 new utility helicopters and bini-bid out ang 7 brand new attack helicopters. Hanapin ko yung link about the acquisition of new attack helicopters.

Actually i remember I made a comment na yun na ring Sokol attack version ang manalo para pareho na sila nung 8 brand new utility helicopters para makatipid sa maintenance kasi halos pareho parts at ngayon Agusta na rin ata may ari ng Polish firm na gumagawa ng sokol.

gmaer

August 22nd, 2010, 03:46 AM

2007 bibili daw ng 16 brand new according to the news (Chinese). To cut the long story short, today, close na deal sa 8 new utility helicopters and bini-bid out ang 7 brand new attack helicopters. Hanapin ko yung link about the acquisition of new attack helicopters.

Actually i remember I made a comment na yun na ring Sokol attack version ang manalo para pareho na sila nung 8 brand new utility helicopters para makatipid sa maintenance kasi halos pareho parts at ngayon Agusta na rin ata may ari ng Polish firm na gumagawa ng sokol.

Where's your sources on this bid? The Chinese have not won any military helicopter bidding in the Philippines to date. Come to think of it... will the Chinese even allow the AFP to use China-made armaments in for example the Philippine defense of the Spratly Islands? That would be a conflict of interest!

When the United States sold the F-14 to Iran they were still at peace with each other but when Iran started its nuclear weapons program the US banned the delivery of F-14 spare parts and other supplies to Iran. When the US retired its F-14 Tomcat they scrapped and shredded all remaining F-14 fighter jets so that no spare parts will get to Iran through the black market.

This is what you call an arms embargo which is something that the AFP will not risk if they are to buy weapons from countries where they have territorial (or political) disputes with.

gmaer

August 22nd, 2010, 03:52 AM

A good proposal for modernizing the Philippine Army and Marines...

War in Afghanistan (2001–present)
The Polish Land Forces contingent, which is a part of the International Security Assistance Force have been operating 35 KTO Rosomak vehicles (including 5 medivac) in Afghanistan since 2007. The APC's were equipped with additional steel-composite armor. In early 2008 a Polish Rosomak serving in Afghanistan (the version with upgraded armor) was attacked by Taliban rebels. The vehicle was hit three times with a RPG-7 rocket but it managed to fire back and returned to base without any help required. In June 2008 a Rosomak was attacked by Taliban and was hit in its frontal armor with a RPG. The armour was not penetrated. Rosomaks have also been attacked by mines and improvised explosive devices but no vehicles have been destroyed. The Polish Rosomak is feared by the Taliban who call it "The Green Devil" (due to its non-standard green painting) and according to some intelligence reports, they tend to cancel their attacks when AMV Rosomak is present.

The Polish KTO Rosomak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KTO_Rosomak) APC/IFV and the Finnish Patria AMV (to where the KTO Rosomak was a licensed variant) are used by 7 countries:

http://www.dpz.wp.mil.pl/plik/image/Sprzet/rosomak_1.jpg

The NPA uses landmines and IEDs while the ASG/MILF uses both plus the RPG.

gmaer

August 22nd, 2010, 04:42 AM

Hmmm something happened here because we are missing 2 pages? My post #571 was supposed to be on page 31!

Anyway... Current Cost to Buy/Operate/Maintain Fighter Jets (http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=95008)

A fighter jet is used by an average of 30 flight hours per month for patrol duty.

gmaer

August 22nd, 2010, 05:54 AM

gmaer and alinghi entity read this.:lol::nuts::)

So that you will be enlightened. And be free from your ignorance and pretentiousness.:)

I never pretended about this combat utility helicopter acquisition fact and is completely aware of it since last year.

The highlighted statements confirm my idea that the AFP if given the money will buy brand new and we can buy brand new within the stipulated budget and specifications of the AFP without going over them.:)

This is old news but I don't know why it was only reported late by Manila Bulletin. Let me dissect your highlighted statements.

They need not be expensive as long as they meet the criteria of the AFP. :)

So 3 billion pesos for you is cheap?

Now, do you think the AFP needs brand new and not necessary advance and hi-tech (like the US made armaments). The answer is yes. Check all the highlighted statements below.:)

This helicopter is advanced and high tech based on European standards.

PAF to buy 8 combat utility helicopters from Poland

Let me guess? Its the same old Sokol that you were bragging about.

August 6, 2010, 1:16pm
Manila Bulletin

Reported too late by Manila Bulletin because this was already reported by Philippine Star a few months ago.

MANILA (PNA) — The government has inked a contract worth P3 billion with PZL Swienik Company of Poland for the supply of eight brand-new combat utility helicopters for the modernization program of the Philippine Air Force (PAF).

Correction... it is PZL Swidnik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL-%C5%9Awidnik) - the Polish company that produced the PZL W-3 Sokol combat utility helicopter that was recently ordered by the Philippine Air Force.

The PZL Swienik is Poland's biggest manufacturer of helicopters.

PZL Swidnik is also known as AgustaWestland Swidnik.

The Polish company won the right to supply the PAF with eight brand-new combat utility choppers following the failure of two public biddings made by the Department of National Defense (DND) and the AFP.

This is the PZL W-3 Sokol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_W-3_Sok%C3%B3%C5%82) combat utility helicopters and nothing more.

Amano said that under Republic Act No. 9184 or the Procurement Law, the government must conduct public bidding for the purchase of equipment, but after two failed biddings, the lone bidder will be awarded the contract.

And that is how PZL Swidnik won the bid!

“We conducted two sealed public biddings but no company showed up except PZL Swienik,” Amano said.

Which is the very reason why PZL Swidnik won the bid.

Amano said that one of the reasons why no other bidders took part in the bidding was their apprehension of dollar rate fluctuations.

True because if you are in a business you must think about your company's profit first before your clients because there can be more clients out there that can buy their products and services at a higher price.

The funds for the purchase of the eight utility combat choppers were part of the AFP modernization budget in 2007.

Not the US Military Assistance budget that you want to use to buy brand new armaments.

Villarete said the acquisition of these helicopters is timely because the Air Force badly needs helicopters of this type to support government ground forces during combat operations.

The PAF’s main utility helicopters are the ageing UH1-H “Huey” helicopters it acquired from the United States four decades ago.

This is a biased statement as the writer for this news article failed to present facts about the recent acquisitions of 2nd hand Huey helicopters which is currently the primary work horse of the AFP.

The Swienik helicopter can carry 14 persons, including the pilot and co-pilot, and has a maximum speed of 260 kilometers per hour and a range of 745 kilometers non-stop. It can climb to an altitude of 19,680 feet, more than twice that of the “Huey.”

So what if it can climb that high? The Polish Sokol will not be used against air targets because it is not a fighter jet. And you compared it to the single engined Huey helicopter? Come on do some research... the Polish Sokol has 2 engines which will give it more speed and range!

Villarete said that once the Polish-made helicopters would be delivered towards the end of 2011, the Air Force mobility would greatly be enhanced.

I agree but 8 units are not enough as the Philippine Air Force needs more!

Again this is a repeat of previous articles about the PZL W-3 Sokol combat utility helicopter acquisition so please don't confuse other posters here thinking that the AFP is set to buy more of it because there is no such plan yet.

The Philippines will be a testing ground for the PZL W-3 Sokol if it can really be used in COIN warfare and if it does then the PAF may buy some more as long as PZL Swidnik can still make the same old offer.

The Polish Sokol and the Israeli Cobra are 2 different helicopters with 2 different functions therefore the former canNOT replace the latter in the recent military helicopter bid besides the plan to acquire the Israeli Cobra was not done through a bidding process. The highlighted statement about this argument was clearly a media error just like the other errors I noticed on other news articles that were posted. I keep on researching for a C-13 transport plane but cannot find one except for the C-130 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_C-130_Hercules) cargo/transport plane!

hakz2007

August 22nd, 2010, 06:09 AM

Just a reminder to everybody here;

Avoid personal attacks/insults. Foul words are not allowed.

If you don't want this thread be locked up for a month, then do the right thing.

Thanks.

Mercato

August 22nd, 2010, 09:37 AM

april boy

August 22nd, 2010, 10:04 AM

Where's your sources on this bid? The Chinese have not won any military helicopter bidding in the Philippines to date. Come to think of it... will the Chinese even allow the AFP to use China-made armaments in for example the Philippine defense of the Spratly Islands? That would be a conflict of interest!

When the United States sold the F-14 to Iran they were still at peace with each other but when Iran started its nuclear weapons program the US banned the delivery of F-14 spare parts and other supplies to Iran. When the US retired its F-14 Tomcat they scrapped and shredded all remaining F-14 fighter jets so that no spare parts will get to Iran through the black market.

This is what you call an arms embargo which is something that the AFP will not risk if they are to buy weapons from countries where they have territorial (or political) disputes with.

Hehehe...as a point of clarification. Im referring to the source of the 2007 news and it came from the Chinese news agency Xinhua.

Nothing about the Chinese bid.

april boy

August 22nd, 2010, 10:38 AM

So 3 billion pesos for you is cheap?From what I read, the other bidders (with US armaments) did not anymore submit their bid because they cannot meet the specs and budget of the AFP. Only the Polish offer submitted its bid. :)
This helicopter is advanced and high tech based on European standards.Thus, we should rejoice for the Polish acquisition.:cheers:
Correction... it is PZL Swidnik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL-%C5%9Awidnik) - the Polish company that produced the PZL W-3 Sokol combat utility helicopter that was recently ordered by the Philippine Air Force. Pardon them for the wrong spelling:)
PZL Swidnik is also known as AgustaWestland Swidnik. Yes.recently bought by the Italian company.:)
Not the US Military Assistance budget that you want to use to buy brand new armaments.Precisely.:)
This is a biased statement as the writer for this news article failed to present facts about the recent acquisitions of 2nd hand Huey helicopters which is currently the primary work horse of the AFP.
Well, dispute that with the writer.:)

So what if it can climb that high? The Polish Sokol will not be used against air targets because it is not a fighter jet. And you compared it to the single engined Huey helicopter? Come on do some research... the Polish Sokol has 2 engines which will give it more speed and range!Well, ask the General who highlighted the "strength" of the Sokols against the hueys.:):)

I agree but 8 units are not enough as the Philippine Air Force needs more! Agree. More brand new please!:cheers:

Again this is a repeat of previous articles about the PZL W-3 Sokol combat utility helicopter acquisition so please don't confuse other posters here thinking that the AFP is set to buy more of it because there is no such plan yet. Actually just referring to the ongoing bidding for
7 brand new attack helicopters. Im just hoping the Polish-Italian maker of Sokol will win again.:):)

april boy

August 22nd, 2010, 10:49 AM

In a forum airliner.net, a member suggested this:

Although for maritime patrol, I think they could also still use new, smaller albeit less capable PZL M-28 Bryza 1R or CASA C212-400MP Patrullero in a supporting role - for less acquisition and operation costs.....http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/military/read.main/56103/

Picture of the PZL-Mielec M-28B Bryza-1R aircraft

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/2/1/6/0997612.jpg

Picture of the CASA C-212-400MP aircraft
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/CasaC212PNA_2.jpg

april boy

August 22nd, 2010, 11:31 AM

The AFP is indeed buying 7 brand new attack helicopters with a 3.2 billion pesos budget.:)

Check this:

http://www.dnd.gov.ph/DNDWEBPAGE_files/BAC/2010/ITB/AUG/Attack%20Helicopter%20Acquisition%20Project%20%2808-03-2010%29.pdf

april boy

August 22nd, 2010, 11:47 AM

Actually just referring to the ongoing bidding for
7 brand new attack helicopters. Im just hoping the Polish-Italian maker of Sokol will win again.:):)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/23/Sokol05th2.jpg
PZL W-3PL Gluszec of Polish Land Forces

posted by Coupmander Yoda (of timawa.net)

My ONLY bet for the new bid for the NCAH:

PZL W-3PL Gluszec. As i've previously said, the PAF would be pressured by the reality of having a limited budget into buying gunship platforms that have the added versatility of troop carrying capability and combat rescue. The commonality with the W-3A is an added factor that will pressure the PAF to buy the W-3PL.
http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=23906.0

This was also suggested:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4889225619_fa6fd04a4f.jpg
AS 555 Fennec Twin-Engined Light Naval Helicopter, Europe

http://img.blog.yahoo.co.kr/ybi/1/a3/5f/hanoltextile/folder/26/img_26_1391_11?1265687371.jpgAH-6i (Latest version of the AH-6)

http://sitelife.aviationweek.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/10/06c7dcde-d3db-4ec5-9a93-99950a29380c.Full.jpg
EC-645 (Armed variant of the EC-135)

april boy

August 22nd, 2010, 12:32 PM

Repost:):)

DND shops for 7 helicopters

Malaya Business Insights
August 5, 2010

The Aquino government is embarking on its first major acquisition by shopping for seven brand-new attack helicopters with a combined budget of P3.2 billion.

The Department of National Defense (DND), the purchasing agent, will source the funding from the national budget and from the AFP modernization fund.

The DND said in a notice of bidding that the seven choppers should be capable of performing close air support during day and night, and navigate safely during extreme weather conditions.

The defense agency also requires contractors to deliver helicopters that are equipped with armaments and avionics system.

Delivery should be within 730 calendar days."

Winning bidder will announced on August 26 at the Camp Aguinaldo.

The AFP said the acquisition will boost the military’s capability to fight threat groups, particularly in the field of combat air support, insertion and extrication of troops and delivery of logistics.

The AFP is likewise in the market for eight utility transport choppers, three light lift aircraft and an upgraded C-130 transport plane.

april boy

August 22nd, 2010, 12:33 PM

Defense leadership reviewing AFP modernization contracts okayed by GMA

By Jaime Laude
(The Philippine Star)
Updated August 22, 2010 12:00 AM

MANILA, Philippines - The new defense leadership is reviewing the multi-billion-peso Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) modernization contracts entered into by the previous Arroyo administration.

Defense spokesman Eduardo Batac said the review covers all military contracts exceeding the P50-million ceiling.

“We are checking everything and if we detect anything questionable, then we will investigate,” Batac said.

But Batac pointed out that the review was not intended to pave the way for the scrapping of government-to-government contracts ordered fast tracked by former defense secretary Noberto Gonzales.

The projects involved the acquisition of combat utility helicopters from Poland for the Air Force as well as two multi-role vessels for the Navy.

Before quitting as defense chief, Gonzales had also directed the Army leadership to submit its own procurement proposal for the upgrading of the unit’s land fighting capabilities.

Officials said the Army needs more light and medium tanks as well as 155 Howitzers for its anti-terror and anti-secessionist campaigns across the country.

“We’re not saying that those contracts were anomalous. While the AFP really needs to modernize, we still have to check if those contracts were aboveboard, and if they’re not we’ll investigate,” Batac said.

A formidable force in the region in the late 60s, the AFP is now lagging behind its counterparts in neighboring countries.

Under the leadership of Secretary Voltaire Gazmin, the defense department is determined to pursue modernization for the AFP to bolster its capability to defend the country from internal and external threats, Batac said.

AFP chief, Lt. Gen. Ricardo David earlier appealed to Congress for more funds.

jpdm

August 23rd, 2010, 03:58 AM

In a forum airliner.net, a member suggested this:

Picture of the PZL-Mielec M-28B Bryza-1R aircraft

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/2/1/6/0997612.jpg

Picture of the CASA C-212-400MP aircraft
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/CasaC212PNA_2.jpg

The planes look good!:):)

april boy

August 23rd, 2010, 11:35 AM

DND steps aside for review of VFA

By Dona Pazzibugan
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 19:53:00 08/22/2010

Filed Under: Agreement (general), Foreign affairs & international relations, Diplomacy, Military

MANILA, Philippines – The Department of National Defense said on Sunday it would take a back seat in the “internal review” of the 1999 RP-US Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA), which has allowed the large-scale presence of American soldiers in the country since the US military bases were closed down in 1991.

Defense spokesperson Eduardo Batac said the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) would lead the review of the VFA as ordered by President Aquino.

“The department has been informed that the President is open to a review of the VFA. The lead agency in this matter is the DFA through the VFA Commission. This internal review is being undertaken,” Batac said, adding that the DND would “coordinate” with its DFA counterparts.

Batac had to retract his previous statement to the media that the DND saw no need to revisit the controversial bilateral agreement with the United States.

He was reacting to Senator Miriam Defensor-Santiago's renewed call to terminate the VFA on the grounds that the arrangement did not help the Philippine military acquire modern equipment and destroy terrorist groups.

“We will wait for debates or action on this. We will just heed the recommendation of the legislators. When there is a necessity for us, we will review it,” Batac earlier said when asked for the DND's comment.

Mr. Aquino had read Batac's statement as reported in another newspaper and had called the attention of Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin to point out that he had ordered a review of the VFA.

Batac attributed his contradictory statement to a “miscommunication.”

“The department cannot comment or interfere in the comments of our legislators. But we are open to the review of the VFA as the good senator (Santiago) has suggested,” he said.

Asked if the DND saw a need to review the VFA, Batac said: “As far as the DND is concerned... there are a lot of advantages the Philippines has gotten from the VFA in terms of assistance. They have given us a lot of assistance.”

Santiago proposed a week ago that Congress unilaterally terminate the VFA through a joint resolution. She added that the foreign affairs secretary’s role would be to give the notice of termination to the United States.

She pointed out that the US did not treat the VFA as a treaty that needed Senate ratification, but as a mere executive agreement between Malacañang and the White House.

The Philippine Senate ratified the VFA on May 27, 1999.

Critics have decried the provision of the VFA that allowed the US government to retain jurisdiction over their military personnel accused of committing crimes in the Philippines.

Calls for the VFA's abolition intensified after the US Embassy refused to hand over Marine Lance Corporal Daniel Smith after he was convicted of rape by the Makati Regional Trial Court in December 2006.

He remained in the custody of the US Embassy until the Court of Appeals acquitted him on April 23, 2009.

mwg12a

August 23rd, 2010, 11:38 PM

^^ Seems like Merriam Defensor is just being passionate about Women's right group plight (Corp Daniel Smith's rape case) and it spread towards her opinion on VFA so she started critisizing the effectivity of it's presence. I don't know how she would gauge her knowledge in this area when she is no a military expert nor she was once the secretary of defense, head of immigration department was it. I remebered these when I (my parents actually ) applied for my alien resident permit when I live in the Philippines.

spearhead

August 23rd, 2010, 11:59 PM

Comparing the Iraq War with the Philippine War - Part I
Youtube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J19aP8zal0E&feature=related)

Comparing the Iraq War with the Philippine War - Part 2
Youtube Link 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igwU51697Qk)

bitoy

August 24th, 2010, 05:54 AM

Are these policemen really trained to do their jobs?
(I'm sure, these cops on the photos are just following orders.)

I'm sorry...talaga lang nakakadismaya ang nangyari sa Chinese-Thai Tourist Bus Hostage. :ohno:

My sincere condolences to the victims and to their families.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03gR2rw9SH37n/610x.jpg

Members of the SWAT team take cover beside the tourist bus seized by dismissed police officer Rolando Mendoza Monday, Aug. 23, 2010 at Manila's Rizal Park.

Assault Tactics.... improvised ladder... :ohno:

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/05eQen8gKZ1Jf/x610.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fSh0u49vC6OI/610x.jpg

"Isa...dalawa..tatlo.... itulak niyo ang puwet ko!"

mwg12a

August 24th, 2010, 05:57 AM

They have!!! Just a crappy one and it's embarrassing!!

bitoy

August 24th, 2010, 06:17 AM

They have!!! Just a crappy one and it's embarrassing!!

:lol:

Meron talagang fully equipped group to handle this kind of situation, but I think that case is not in their jurisdiction and the PNP wanted to handle it since the hostage-taker is one of their own.

Some PNP officers are even trained here, bakit nagka ganyan?

Yeah, dito rin me kapalpakan minsan sa mga hostage negotiations but most of the time, it's done by the book.

Englehart

August 24th, 2010, 06:33 AM

^^

ano pinagkaiba ng SWAT at SAF ng PNP? pagdating sa deployment nila

mwg12a

August 24th, 2010, 06:37 AM

:lol:

Meron talagang fully equipped group to handle this kind of situation, but I think that case is not in their jurisdiction and the PNP wanted to handle it since the hostage-taker is one of their own.

Some PNP officers are even trained here, bakit nagka ganyan?

Yeah, dito rin me kapalpakan minsan sa mga hostage negotiations but most of the time, it's done by the book.

Maybe this is why it took that long because they had that inkling feeling that the hostage taker would really negotiate and surrender without any incident, so they wer buying time. it just went bad when the suspect found out his brother was arrested. That interactive TV should of been disabled instead.

bitoy

August 24th, 2010, 07:01 AM

^^

ano pinagkaiba ng SWAT at SAF ng PNP? pagdating sa deployment nila

I think the PNP-SAF is a counter-terrorist unit that goes up against rebel, guerillas or terrorist groups. They get deployed in certain areas na magulo to offer assistance for special mission. Meron pa silang Airborne Badges... :) ang problema lang, saan sila sasakay pahimpapawid. :D

Ang SWAT ---- hmmmm... ayan, as what you've seen on the recent news. :ohno:

as a PEXer said :

SWAT - Sorry, Wala Akong Training

johnmizer

August 24th, 2010, 07:13 AM

bakit b hinde sila pumasok, eh my kevlar naman sila?

may flashbang ba sila? bakit tagal tinapon ng tear gas? hinde ba ang swat dapat naka all black?

bakit ba wala sila nvg

bakit kasi inaresto agad yung kapatid? bakit walang media blackout?

sana hinde na lang pinatay yung hostage taker, bakit kailangan pang pasabugin ulo nya eh na teargas na sya. bakit hinde na lang mga kamay nya?

sana naisip ng mga pulis na patayin yung mga ilaw para madilim yung buong lugar, lakas ng ulan dapat ginamit nilang advantage yun.

magbukas lang ng pinto hinde nila alam

ata sana hinde na lang nila inaresto kapataid nya... malamang hinde nagyari yun...

2 Epic FAIL na ang pnp, yung hostage takeng sa bus station dati kugn saan namatay ang bata dahil sa ni ratrat ng mga pulis yung hostage taker kasama yung bata...

FAILIPINAS...

bitoy

August 24th, 2010, 07:33 AM

Maybe this is why it took that long because they had that inkling feeling that the hostage taker would really negotiate and surrender without any incident, so they wer buying time. it just went bad when the suspect found out his brother was arrested. That interactive TV should of been disabled instead.

"It just went bad" - yeah, you can put it that way, or "shit happens". no one wanted it to end that way or no one was expecting a tragic end.
Mahaba nga ang istorya ng pulis na yun, kaya imbestigahan ang simula ng pangyayari kung bakit siya raw ang naging "Fall Guy" sa extortion at natangal sa puwesto.

There are lots of questions need to be answered and police procedures including their personnel ... (wala na, naubusan na ako ng inglez dahil sa galit at inis) .... dapat balasahin na ang mga yan o pukpukin sa ulo, ang yayabang kasi...nung iba.. :D

pi_malejana

August 24th, 2010, 08:05 AM

^^ bossing, eto ang mga hinayupak oh!:D
kagagaling...:bash:

wbwAMS5tRAA&

huli ka balbon...:lol::nuts:

Arvor

August 24th, 2010, 09:02 AM

bitoy

August 24th, 2010, 09:09 AM

^^ bossing, eto ang mga hinayupak oh!:D
kagagaling...:bash:

wbwAMS5tRAA&

huli ka balbon...:lol::nuts:

^^ Sa praktis, mga astig... hehehe
ganyan naman talaga sa training pero pag sa field na malimutan na nila ang training nila.

Nuon din, meron kaming mock hostage-robbery crisis, maraming hostages ang nabukulan at me napilayan pang babae dahil masyadong aggressive yung assault team. :lol:

Preserve Lives... ayan ang main objective sa hostage situation... di baleng bale ang balakang o iika ika basta buhay. :D

bitoy

August 24th, 2010, 09:22 AM

Yeah i didnt see those guys in the coverage, but anyway a sniper would have been more adequate in this instance given that he was heavily armed and the bus was harder to get into compared to this one in the practice video, i wondered why it had taken that long to snipe him and wondered why he wasnt shot earlier given what seem to be ample opportunities at a clear shot .

During that time that the hostage-taker was on the door of the bus, the police don't have enough info on the situation and he wasn't hostile enough to be shot while the negotiation was in order.

From what I heard, there are other reasons why the negotiation failed.

1. The arrest and manhandling of his brother by fellow policemen.

2. When the driver of the bus escaped and started to tell that the hostages are all dead or being harmed.

Was this bus driver really running for his life?

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eoCek09mo7CS/x610.jpg

The bus driver of the hijacked bus escapes during a hostage stand-off that resulted in the death of eight hostages and the gunman on August 23, 2010 in Manila, Philippines.

_BPS_

August 24th, 2010, 09:34 AM

uhm Guys What main aircraft do you prefer for our territorial defense?? coz for me its F-16 with supersonic inlet...:lol:

JF-17 Thunder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JF-17_Thunder) :)
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ncoDQJZTPuo/RpaZQVsNfCI/AAAAAAAAAPM/696CylsV_-4/FC-1+Fierce+Dragon+(+China+-+Pakistan+)+2.jpg

Christian_123

August 24th, 2010, 10:58 AM

Are these policemen really trained to do their jobs?

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03gR2rw9SH37n/610x.jpg

Members of the SWAT team take cover beside the tourist bus seized by dismissed police officer Rolando Mendoza Monday, Aug. 23, 2010 at Manila's Rizal Park.

That formation looks awfully familiar...Wait, i remember now where i have seen it...:

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7931/failepines2.jpg
(Oakwood mutiny in Makati)

Wow, Hinde nasila natuto, halos parehas na parehas un bopols na SWAT formation na ginawa nila dati. Malalaking tanga talaga ang PNP police force..

absinthe_888

August 24th, 2010, 11:59 AM

Makes me wondering...

Where was the PNP Special Action Force yesterday?

Manila-X

August 24th, 2010, 12:09 PM

That formation looks awfully familiar...Wait, i remember now where i have seen it...:

(Oakwood mutiny in Makati)

Wow, Hinde nasila natuto, halos parehas na parehas un bopols na SWAT formation na ginawa nila dati. Malalaking tanga talaga ang PNP police force..

I would say the handling of both The Oakwood Mutiny and The Manila Peninsula siege ended up well because there were no civilian casualties involved.

Kintoy

August 24th, 2010, 03:13 PM

incompetence is not just a domain for PNP.

in 1993, the FBI and ATF took 50 days to end a siege in Waco, Texas against David Koresh and the Branch Davidian cult. 76 people died in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege

http://everseradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/waco-branch-davidians.jpg

Jrommel

August 24th, 2010, 03:34 PM

prohibit the use of of heavily tinted window glass on vehicles to prevent incidence like this and set protocols to travel agencies,bus companies,mrt/lrt,PNR

jundem_dq63

August 24th, 2010, 05:00 PM

That formation looks awfully familiar...Wait, i remember now where i have seen it...:

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7931/failepines2.jpg
(Oakwood mutiny in Makati)

Wow, Hinde nasila natuto, halos parehas na parehas un bopols na SWAT formation na ginawa nila dati. Malalaking tanga talaga ang PNP police force..

Isa lang ang Nanghostage pero it took so many hours para ma resolve...ano ba naman yan...... nakakahiya talaga ang Mga Police natin......super....

Alinghi

August 24th, 2010, 05:18 PM

JF-17 Thunder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JF-17_Thunder) :)
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_ncoDQJZTPuo/RpaZQVsNfCI/AAAAAAAAAPM/696CylsV_-4/FC-1+Fierce+Dragon+(+China+-+Pakistan+)+2.jpg

i don't think China will allow us to have that fighter.. we are at odds over the Spratly's, not too mention we are a staunch ally of Uncle Sam

i'm thinking of French Dassault Mirage 2000's :lol:

-SNPKLSDMBLDR-

August 24th, 2010, 07:20 PM

open shot na sana para sa mga sniper yung habang nasa harap si mendoza! bakit di pa nila tinuluyan ang mokong at pinaabot pa nila gabi kaya marami pa ang namatay! :ohno:

Arvor

August 24th, 2010, 07:43 PM

Ten things the Philippines bus siege police got wrong

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11069616

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0823-world-manila/8521133-1-eng-US/0823-world-manila_full_380.jpg

A security analyst who has worked in counter-terrorism with the British Army and Scotland Yard, Charles Shoebridge, says the officers involved in Manila's bus siege showed great courage - but they were not properly trained or equipped for the task.

Here are 10 areas where, in his view, they could have done better.

1. Determination

The first officers who tried to storm the bus were driven out by gunshots from the hostage taker, former policeman Rolando Mendoza. "They showed great courage to go on board. It's very crowded, just one aisle down the middle of the bus. But once you get on board it's not unexpected you are going to be fired at. Squads like this have to be made up of very special people, specially trained and selected for their characteristics of courage, determination and aggression. In this case they acted as 99% of the population would have, which was to turn round and get out. They didn't seem to have the necessary determination and aggression to follow the attack through."

2. Lack of equipment

The police spent a long time smashing the windows of the bus, whereas explosive charges (known as frame charges) would have knocked in windows and doors instantly. "They had no ladders to get through the windows. They smashed the windows but didn't know what to do next," Mr Shoebridge says. "They almost looked like a group of vandals." Their firearms were also inappropriate - some had pistols, some had assault rifles. Ideally they would have carried a short submachine gun, suitable for use in confined spaces.

3. Lost opportunity to disarm the gunman

There were numerous opportunities to restrain the gunman, Mr Shoebridge believes. "The negotiators were so close to him, and he had his weapon hanging down by his side. He could have been disabled without having to kill him."

4. Lost opportunity to shoot the gunman

The video of the drama also shows there were occasions when the gunman was standing alone, during the course of the day, and could have been shot by a sharpshooter. "You are dealing with an unpredictable and irrational individual. The rule should be that if in the course of negotiations an opportunity arises to end the situation decisively, it should be taken," Mr Shoebridge says. Either this possibility did not occur to the officers in charge, he adds, or they considered it and decided to carry on talking.

5. Satisfying the gunman's demands

"I wondered why the authorities just didn't give in to all of his demands," says Charles Shoebridge. "A promise extracted under force is not a promise that you are required to honour. Nobody wants to give in to the demands of terrorists, but in a situation like this, which did not involve a terrorist group, or release of prisoners, they could have just accepted his demands. He could be reinstated in the police - and then be immediately put in prison for life for hostage taking." The Philippines authorities did in fact give in to the gunman's demands, but too little, too late. One message promised to review his case, while he wanted it formally dismissed. A second message reinstating him as a police offer only arrived after the shooting had started.

6. Televised proceedings

The gunman was able to follow events on television, revealing to him everything that was going on around him. This was a "crucial defect in the police handling", Mr Shoebridge says. He adds that police should always consider putting a barrier or screen around the area, to shield the scene from the cameras and keep the hostage taker in the dark.

7. No element of surprise

It was clear to the gunman what the police were doing at all times, not only because the whole incident was televised, but also because they moved "laboriously slowly", Mr Shoebridge says. The police did not distract him, so were unable to exploit the "crucial element of surprise".

8. Safeguarding the public

At least one bystander was shot, possibly because the public was allowed too close. The bullet from an M16 rifle, as carried by the gunman, can travel for about a mile, so preventing any risk of injury would have been difficult, Mr Shoebridge says, but a lot more could have been done. "When you saw the camera view from above, it was clear there was little command and control of the public on the ground," he says.

9. Using the gunman's brother to negotiate

Relatives and close friends can be a double-edged sword, Mr Shoebridge says. While they may have leverage over the hostage taker, what they are saying cannot be easily controlled. In this case, the gunman's brother was included in the negotiations - however, at a certain stage he became agitated and police started to remove him from the scene. The gunman saw this on television, and became agitated himself. According to one report he fired a warning shot.

10. Insufficient training

In some parts of the Philippines, such as Mindanao, hostage taking is not an uncommon occurrence, so the country has some forces that are well trained in the necessary tactics. The detachment involved in Monday's incident clearly was not, says Mr Shoebridge. After smashing the windows, one of the officers eventually put some CS gas inside, though "to what effect was not clear" he says. A unit involved in this work, needs to be "trained again and again, repeatedly practising precisely this kind of scenario," he says.

----

Brown Tiger

August 24th, 2010, 09:14 PM

pi_malejana

August 25th, 2010, 02:17 AM

Makes me wondering...

Where was the PNP Special Action Force yesterday?

un nga eh wala sila duon, saan ba sila naka station??
sabi pa nga eh, ung ilang police na sumugod duon eh di talaga totoong mga SWAT, may helmet lang at vest, tactics team na ang tawag...:bash::ohno:

EDIT: Totoo ba na ung isa daw sa mga hostages eh namatay dahil dun sa sledgehammer ng mga police? wtf?!:?

Englehart

August 25th, 2010, 02:49 AM

^^

parang di nga swat if remeber na swat na naalala ko ibang ang suot all black baka doon lang binuo ang swat - Sayang Walang Ayos na Tactics........

baka nasa taguig ang SAF nakasakay sa 6 bine or 4 bine nila:)

wonkcerbon

August 25th, 2010, 03:33 AM

was this photo also taken during the hostages ?, I got this from chinese forums btw..

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6097/211fv.jpg

-SNPKLSDMBLDR-

August 25th, 2010, 04:05 AM

that picture is not from the recent hostage taking, that pic was taken long time ago.

spearhead

August 25th, 2010, 06:19 AM

mwg12a

August 25th, 2010, 06:25 AM

Its really about time to completely 100% train and equip all local SWAT and SAF units on this type of situation, rescue operations for any type of transportation vehicles, trains, ships/boats, and aircrafts.

And provide proper equipments at the same time, increase the salary and benefit of these people to improve their moral.

Jrommel

August 25th, 2010, 08:26 AM

In other countries...local officials,police officials should have resigned by now,but not in our country-"kapit-tuko sila sa mga puwesto"

absinthe_888

August 25th, 2010, 09:13 AM

un nga eh wala sila duon, saan ba sila naka station??
sabi pa nga eh, ung ilang police na sumugod duon eh di talaga totoong mga SWAT, may helmet lang at vest, tactics team na ang tawag...:bash::ohno:

EDIT: Totoo ba na ung isa daw sa mga hostages eh namatay dahil dun sa sledgehammer ng mga police? wtf?!:?

Ang official station ng SAF ay sa Sta. Rosa, Laguna, pero merong contingent na naka station sa Camp Bagong Diwa sa Taguig.

Sa tingin ko, hindi talaga SWAT yung dinepoly nung Monday. Parang mga riot police lang na nilagyan ng helmet at vest. Ang alam lang naman ng MPD ay mang torture.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Saf.JPG

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/camote/catsyearendergame007.jpg
^^ SAF in CQB mode

http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/4323/33117435zb9.jpg
^^ SAF snipers

pi_malejana

August 25th, 2010, 09:27 AM

^^ tsk...

un ngang sniper sa grandstand na pinakita walang suot pang itaas...:nuts:

absinthe_888

August 25th, 2010, 09:34 AM

^^ tsk...

un ngang sniper sa grandstand na pinakita walang suot pang itaas...:nuts:

Things could have turned out differently if the SAF was tasked to lead the assault.

Hindi nga ata sniper rifle yung gamit eh, parang M14 na naka rifle scope lang. Mukang galing sa inuman yung "sniper" naghubad na nang pangtaas eh. Nainitan ang katawan :nuts:

Nung Manila Pen siege, nag order ng news blackout si GMA at SAF ang pinadala ng PNP to lead the assault.

QC SWAT team magaling din.

pi_malejana

August 25th, 2010, 09:38 AM

absinthe_888

August 25th, 2010, 09:45 AM

^^ Sir yan na nga yung picture na naipost ko...sa Wikipedia nga galing :nuts:

_BPS_

August 25th, 2010, 10:11 AM

i don't think China will allow us to have that fighter.. we are at odds over the Spratly's, not too mention we are a staunch ally of Uncle Sam

i'm thinking of French Dassault Mirage 2000's :lol:

The FC1 has already been offered to the PAF. Philippines Defence Forum (http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=12245.0)
But due to the politics and the vast coastal boundaries, the PAF should opt for a twin-engined aircraft, preferrably the American F/A-18C/D (http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/3/4/8/1465843.jpg) (instead of its single-engined equivalent F-16C/D), and if the budget is not a problem, then a couple squadrons of the Eurofighter (http://www.skycontrol.net/UserFiles/Image/MilitaryAviation_img/200809/200809-eurofighter-typhoon-50000-hours.jpg) or the French Rafale (http://www.militarypower.com.br/avi-Rafale01.jpg) (priced around USD $80m-100m per unit) would be the best suited option for the next 20-30 years.

spearhead

August 25th, 2010, 02:17 PM

Things could have turned out differently if the SAF was tasked to lead the assault.

Hindi nga ata sniper rifle yung gamit eh, parang M14 na naka rifle scope lang. Mukang galing sa inuman yung "sniper" naghubad na nang pangtaas eh. Nainitan ang katawan :nuts:

Nung Manila Pen siege, nag order ng news blackout si GMA at SAF ang pinadala ng PNP to lead the assault.

QC SWAT team magaling din.

Totoo ba yung narinig ko na hindi raw trained ang SAF sa bus-type hostage take down? I heard it from some filipino defense forum. And actually none of them including the local SWAT units were even trained on this specific situation.

Ang official station ng SAF ay sa Sta. Rosa, Laguna, pero merong contingent na naka station sa Camp Bagong Diwa sa Taguig.

Sa tingin ko, hindi talaga SWAT yung dinepoly nung Monday. Parang mga riot police lang na nilagyan ng helmet at vest. Ang alam lang naman ng MPD ay mang torture.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/camote/catsyearendergame007.jpg
^^ SAF in CQB mode

Yo man, airsoft ito... dont worry nauto din ako nito, i also posted this one at timawa forum long ago tapos may nagcorrect sakin dun hehehehehe :lol:

spearhead

August 25th, 2010, 04:09 PM

Just as I observed yesterday's Hostage Crisis, I would like to point out lapses by the PNP and the lack Political Management to handle suck scenario:

1.) No Crisis Management was Set -up (Who is the Leader from PNP to coordinate and Politicians to assist. (Mayor Lim & Isko Moreno did nothing)

2.) PNP personnel lacked proper equipment

3.) No Armored Vehicles to support assault

4.) No proper crowd, media control

5.) They could have open the undercarriage of the bus while limiting tv coverage, the hostage taker is watching tv (abs-cbn or gma, no one knows)

Any comments...

AND SAY WHO SUPPORTS OUR CRITICISM? Read on.

British expert tells how hostages should have been rescued
LINK (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/-depth/08/25/10/british-expert-tells-how-hostages-should-have-been-rescued)

By Ma. Rosanna Mina, abs-cbnNEWS.com
Posted at 08/25/2010 5:43 PM | Updated as of 08/25/2010 5:44 PM

MANILA, Philippines – The Manila Police District (MPD) could have confronted the August 23 Manila bus hostage-taking with better equipment and strategies, a British security analyst said.

A total of 8 Hong Kong tourists as well as the hostage-taker, former senior police inspector Rolando Mendoza, were killed in the 11-hour siege of a tourist bus.

Charles Shoebridge, who has worked in counter-terrorism with the British Army and Scotland Yard, told BBC News that there were 10 things that the MPD got wrong in dealing with siege. The article "Ten things the Philippines bus siege police got wrong" is the most shared and 3rd most read story of the BBC News website as of posting time.

Although the Philippine policemen were courageous, he said that they lacked training, equipment and determination.

hoebridge said the detachment deployed to the Rizal Park was evidently not trained to deal with hostage-taking.

He cited that an officer put some tear gas inside the bus but “to what effect was not clear.”

The Briton elaborated on the MPD’s lack of equipment, saying that they should have brought short submachine guns instead of pistols and assault rifles because they are more apt to use in confined places.

“They had no ladders to get through the windows. They smashed the windows but didn’t know what to do next,” Shoebridge added. “They almost looked like a group of vandals.”

He even mentioned that it took a long time for the policemen to smash the windows of the bus. He said that explosive charges (frame charges) would have knocked broken windows and doors in an instant.

Moreover, the British security expert said that the officers showed their lack of determination when they got out of the bus after Mendoza fired off some gunshots.

“They showed great courage to go on board. It’s very crowded, just one aisle down the middle of the bus. But once you get on board it’s not unexpected you are going to be fired at,” he noted.

“Squads like this have to be made up of very special people, specially trained and selected for their characteristics of courage, determination and aggression. In this case they acted as 99% of the population would have, which was to turn round and get out. They didn't seem to have the necessary determination and aggression to follow the attack through.”

Lost opportunities

Shoebridge then mentioned that the MPD missed several chances in the hostage-taking incident.

Firstly, the police failed to disarm their former colleague who was dismissed due to an Ombudsman ruling in 2008. The case stemmed from extortion charges filed against him by a student.

“The negotiators were so close to him, and he had his weapon hanging down by his side. He could have been disabled without having to kill him.”

Secondly, the police could have shot Mendoza as there were instances when he was just standing alone.

“You are dealing with an unpredictable and irrational individual. The rule should be that if in the course of negotiations an opportunity arises to end the situation decisively, it should be taken,” he stated.

Shoebridge also said that authorities could have reinstated Mendoza so that the hostage-taking could have been resolved much earlier.

“I wondered why the authorities just didn't give in to all of his demands,” he remarked.

“A promise extracted under force is not a promise that you are required to honor. Nobody wants to give in to the demands of terrorists, but in a situation like this, which did not involve a terrorist group, or release of prisoners, they could have just accepted his demands. He could be reinstated in the police - and then be immediately put in prison for life for hostage taking.”

Another “miss” of the police was using hostage-taker’s brother, SPO2 Gregorio Mendoza, to negotiate. The police even arrested Gregorio for being an accessory to the crime.

It has been said that Gregorio’s arrest agitated his brother which led to the bloodbath in the tourist bus.

“Relatives and close friends can be a double-edged sword, Mr. Shoebridge says,” the BBC News wrote.

Media and crowd control

he British analyst also cited the media coverage as it caused Mendoza to be aware of what was happening around him.

He said it was a “crucial defect in the police handling.”

Shoebridge said the police could have prevented the media from reporting at the scene by placing screens and barriers in the area.

He added that there was no element of surprise, thanks to the media’s extensive coverage.

But he said that the policemen were also at fault for not distracting the hostage-taker and even moving “laboriously slowly.”

The police also failed to safeguard the public. A bystander, a 10-year-old boy, was hurt following the gunfire.

“When you saw the camera view from above, it was clear there was little command and control of the public on the ground,” Shoebridge said.

How to do it

The Serbian Special Forces, meantime, demonstrated how to break into a bus in a training video uploaded on YouTube.

The video entitled “special operation serbia,” however, was not aimed at educating the Philippine police as it was uploaded on January 29, 2008.

It showed the Serbian Special Forces assaulting a parked bus by smashing and firing shots at the windows and using a ramp to quickly enter the bus through the windows.

The MPD did not have a ramp or ladder when they were trying to get into the tourist bus on Monday.

Aside from breaking into the bus, the video also showed the Serbian Special Forces scaling from helicopter ropes, breaking into a parked train car, scaling down a building, stopping a convoy and target shooting.

Netizen akosironin commented on the YouTube video’s page: “Wish Manila Police was this good.” – With a report from BBC News

THIS IS HOW THE PNP SWAT SHOULD DO IT NEXT TIME:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjUABwZ3sKA
pjUABwZ3sKA

absinthe_888

August 25th, 2010, 06:04 PM

Totoo ba yung narinig ko na hindi raw trained ang SAF sa bus-type hostage take down? I heard it from some filipino defense forum. And actually none of them including the local SWAT units were even trained on this specific situation.

Yo man, airsoft ito... dont worry nauto din ako nito, i also posted this one at timawa forum long ago tapos may nagcorrect sakin dun hehehehehe :lol:

Toinkz...ganon ba...Dapat eh tangalin sa Wikipedia page ng SAF yung pic. :nuts:

Kung walang training ang ating SWAT units sa bus hostage situations, eh sana lessons learned ito at maginvest sa manpower capability at equipment. Nakakainis lang kasi na parang wala na naman mangyayari.

Sorsogueño

August 25th, 2010, 06:05 PM

That formation looks awfully familiar...Wait, i remember now where i have seen it...:

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/7931/failepines2.jpg
(Oakwood mutiny in Makati)

Wow, Hinde nasila natuto, halos parehas na parehas un bopols na SWAT formation na ginawa nila dati. Malalaking tanga talaga ang PNP police force..

Ganyan ba talaga ang tamang formation?Nung nag training kc ako sa Philippine Army for ROTC 10 years ago ganyan din pinakita nilang formation sa drill.

spearhead

August 25th, 2010, 06:22 PM

Ganyan ba talaga ang tamang formation?Nung nag training kc ako sa Philippine Army for ROTC 10 years ago ganyan din pinakita nilang formation sa drill.

Kung ganun may pagkabobo talaga ang mga tacticians natin, at di nila ine-enhance ang determination, aggression, and the will to die for the service of the country in line of duty.

Read the above british analysist's observation of the recent incident, it was a bullseye. I hope some SAS or IDF military advisers should come down to manila and retrain our security forces. And these SWAT, SAF forces should do this training over and over again during peace time.

spearhead

August 25th, 2010, 06:24 PM

Toinkz...ganon ba...Dapat eh tangalin sa Wikipedia page ng SAF yung pic. :nuts:

Kung walang training ang ating SWAT units sa bus hostage situations, eh sana lessons learned ito at maginvest sa manpower capability at equipment. Nakakainis lang kasi na parang wala na naman mangyayari.

Oo nga eh, yan ang problema lang kasi sa wiki, anyone can just toss anything like there, may mga engot talagang noypi na gumagawa nyan. Tignan mo ulit yung photos, yung mga players na nasa pinakababa ng stairs, wearing some paintball/airsoft protective masks, and they didnt have any uniformed boots. :lol:

spearhead

August 25th, 2010, 10:51 PM

Philippine S.W.A.T.! Sana Wag Akong Tamaan, o Sori Wala Ako Training! Tsk tsk tsk haaay nako nakakahiya talaga silang mga pinoy cops nayan, nagkalat narin ito sa internet.... So far 4 cops were relieved from duty including a ground commander, and 3 squad leaders. Apparently they forgot their brains at their HQ with their operating manuals at the book shelves! Cmon we're just angry and sad as you are! My sympathies to those chinese tourists.

Lesson learned, now time to move on (hehe ill try).

-----------------------------------------------------------
Sana naman makagawa na sila ng sarili nilang training immediately kahit wala ng tulong ng ibang bansa. Panoorin lang nila yung Special Operation Serbia sa youtube at magkakaroon na sila na idea.

Gawa sila ng sarili nilang Frame Charges at dapat maging standard na ito sa lahat ng bus sa pinas na dapat lahat ng bintana nila ay matablahan ng paputok nayan, malamang gawa sa C4 na modified.

Yung ramps or ladders madali nayan, baka naman pati yun import pa nila tsk wag nman.

Tapos, gawa sila ng videos how to do it next time then upload it in youtube, para naman makita na ng mga madlang tao sa mundo na may ginawa nang drastic measures and tactical corrections ang mga PNP-SWAT and SAF narin kung sakalaing wala pa silang ganyang training and tools/equipments.

DONT WAIT ANYMORE, just do it! Do the retraining now within a week and show it to the world what adjustments you made!

IsaRic

August 26th, 2010, 12:53 AM

Well, as they say, great tragedies produces great changes.

Surely, lessons have been learned, albeit, the worst possible way :(

Ady001

August 26th, 2010, 02:37 AM

^^ Dapat siguro may surprise training 'tong mga 'to. Pag di handa, sibak kaagad.

Ady001

August 26th, 2010, 02:39 AM

Nanflexal

August 26th, 2010, 04:08 AM

PNP - Pasanin Ng Pinoy
SWAT - Sadyang Walang Alam Talaga

Please join Wall Of Shame
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=151559198203628

Maxxclip

August 26th, 2010, 07:17 AM

Nasaan na ang mga magagaling?

nasa Arcade?

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8246/timeo.png

absinthe_888

August 26th, 2010, 07:41 AM

@ Spearhead: Napansin ko nga din yun eh, yung boots et. al :lol:

-------------

Serious note:

I'm listening to the Senate hearing right now on what happened last Monday and I find this very disturbing.

Senators are all asking the PNP officials present where was the SAF during this hostage crisis.

A SAF contingent was in fact on standby but was not deployed. Sabi ni Gen. Santiago, discretion ng ground commander (Magtibay) at tong si Magtibay ay confident na kaya ng MPD SWAT team.

Lalo tuloy sabog ang PNP nito.

pi_malejana

August 26th, 2010, 07:46 AM

absinthe_888

August 26th, 2010, 07:54 AM

Sa ANC ako nanunuod...inamin na ni Gen. Santiago na meh SAF battalion on stand by noon.

Puro BS answers pa tong mga pulis na to bakit hindi SAF nag lead ng assault...

Parang hindi pa ata sila nagllunchbreak :D

absinthe_888

August 26th, 2010, 08:32 AM

Meron palang dalang gas mask at hagdan yung MPD SWAT noon.

Bakit hindi nila ginamit???

bitoy

August 26th, 2010, 08:40 AM

Meron palang dalang gas mask at hagdan yung MPD SWAT noon.

Bakit hindi nila ginamit???

Mahaba yung hagdanan at hindi raw folding to suit the height of the bus rear exit.

But the gas mask issue, sabi wala yata silang dala dahil malamang hindi nga mga tunay na SWAT members sila.

edu k tid

August 26th, 2010, 09:43 AM

Mahaba yung hagdanan at hindi raw folding to suit the height of the bus rear exit.

But the gas mask issue, sabi wala yata silang dala dahil malamang hindi nga mga tunay na SWAT members sila.

Hindi ganon. Ang sabi hindi kelangan ng hagdan kasi nasa 1st floor lang daw ang bus.

Tapos wala ng gas yung bus, e bat pa raw nila kelangan ng gas mask?

bitoy

August 26th, 2010, 09:48 AM

^^ hehehehe :lol:

Seriously, there are some cops trying to get some bystanders away from the scene... makukulit lang talaga ang mga uzis.

Different "Strategies" SWAT used to get in Bus Manila Hostage

ls1sv07UoTE

During the early negotiation period....
SWAT ng MPD nagsanay bago ang bus assault

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/nation/metro-manila/08/25/10/manilas-swat-team-rehearsed-assault-bus

Gildong

August 26th, 2010, 12:43 PM

PIG HEADED COPS..!! Ilang beses na nangyari sa pinas yang mga ganyang insidente, police are very unprofessional to handle the such situation.. Nakakahiya...
I remember the past hostage drama in pantranco ba yun, yung bata ang hostage., hindi bat pati ang musmos na bata napagbabaril din nung mga walang kasing GAGONG mga pulis na yun.. kelan pa magsasanay yung mga otoridad na responsable sa mga ganitong sitwasyon?? kapag si noynoy na ang nahostage??

USELESS PIG HEADED COPS OF THE PHILIPPINES..
sikat kayo hindi lang sa pinas kundi sa buong mundo.. nakakahiya..!!

At pati ang mga wala namang kinalaman na pinay DH sa hongkong napag iinitan na ng mga chekwa dun.. kawawa naman bkit kelangan pati sila madamay dahil sa kabobohan ng mga kapulisan natin.. even in mainland china.. dati na tayo dinidiscriminate ng mga chekwa.. panu pa ngayon..

april boy

August 26th, 2010, 02:30 PM

nasa Arcade?

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8246/timeo.png

mamamatay ako sa kakatawa dito..

anyway, thanks for the laugh..a welcome break sa masakit na nangyari...:):)

spearhead

August 26th, 2010, 02:34 PM

PNP - Pasanin Ng Pinoy
SWAT - Sadyang Walang Alam Talaga

Please join Wall Of Shame
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=151559198203628

hahahaha! Sniper Without Active Thermal! :bash:

nasa Arcade?

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8246/timeo.png

Sori Walang Arcade Talaga! :ohno:

Meron palang dalang gas mask at hagdan yung MPD SWAT noon.

Bakit hindi nila ginamit???

Mahaba yung hagdanan at hindi raw folding to suit the height of the bus rear exit.

But the gas mask issue, sabi wala yata silang dala dahil malamang hindi nga mga tunay na SWAT members sila.

Hindi ganon. Ang sabi hindi kelangan ng hagdan kasi nasa 1st floor lang daw ang bus.

Tapos wala ng gas yung bus, e bat pa raw nila kelangan ng gas mask?

Kaya nila hindi ginamit kasi wala naman silang Frame Charges to blow up the bus windows, so useless ang mga ramps or ladders kapag ganyan ang kaso.

The ladders main purpose is only for a quick entry to the bus, so without that explosive devices like the Frame Charges, then its useless.

^^ hehehehe :lol:

Seriously, there are some cops trying to get some bystanders away from the scene... makukulit lang talaga ang mga uzis.

Different "Strategies" SWAT used to get in Bus Manila Hostage

ls1sv07UoTE

During the early negotiation period....
SWAT ng MPD nagsanay bago ang bus assault

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/nation/metro-manila/08/25/10/manilas-swat-team-rehearsed-assault-bus

Nakakahiya talaga, naturiang mga MANILA SWAT TEAMS sila from MANILA. BAKIT hindi sila 100% equipped??? Nko nman.

Ganyan talaga nangyayari kung ang nagtrain sa kanila ay palpak din. Being shot at is NOT UNEXPECTED, kaya bakit nag atrasan sila nung bumira si mendoza?

Tapos walng gas mask, walang protective vests and helmets, tlaga namang mga SWAT sila, as in Sori Wala Akong Training! Walang matinong training at walang gamit....

You guys should watch the video i posted entitled, "Special Operation Serbia". You will see the scene there how they take down a bus-hostage taking with the use of the ladders and frame charges. Panoorin nyo para maintindihan nyo.

bitoy

August 27th, 2010, 01:32 AM

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0f8S3L97ZofWi/x610.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/06Uu2JSaTGaHd/610x.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/05wtb2G0dV7M6/610x.jpg

Chinese police demonstrate how they handle a hostage situation during a drill in Beijing on August 25, 2010 after eight Hong Kong tourists were killed in Manila on August 23 when Philippine police attempted to storm a bus during a hostage crisis.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eDRgNG31m5a7/610x.jpg

Chinese police snipers get ready to take up positions during a drill to demonstrate how to handle hostage-taking situations in Beijing on August 25, 2010.

Wag na anting ipakita ang mga kagamitan nila, parang lalo tayong sinampal nito. :D

IsaRic

August 27th, 2010, 03:04 AM

Wow, did they do it infront of the Philippine Embassy?

Nanflexal

August 27th, 2010, 03:17 AM

mga bugof kasi mga pulis natin d2. puro corruption ang priority. panay daldal kaya yon bagong meaning ng SWAT bagay na bagay sa inyo.

SWAT - Sana Wag Akong Tamaan
SWAT - Sadyang Walang Alam Talaga
PNP - Pasanin ng Pinoy

Wag na kayo bumili ng equipment, Itak nalang gamitin nyo mga hinahupak kayo, sirang sira na pangalan ng pililipinas ng dahil sa kapalpakan nyo.

Si GMA liable din d2 dahil walang syang ginagawa hakbang para magandahin yon equipment ng AFP natin at SWAT, SAF. Busy kasi si GMA manorakot kaya walang time para panganga-ilangan ng gamit ng SWAT, AFP at SAF.

bitoy

August 27th, 2010, 03:36 AM

Wow, did they do it infront of the Philippine Embassy?

I wish they did that in front. :lol: But I'm sure they did that where a lot of people can view them.

Maxxclip

August 27th, 2010, 03:46 AM

Si GMA liable din d2 dahil walang syang ginagawa hakbang para magandahin yon equipment ng AFP natin at SWAT, SAF. Busy kasi si GMA manorakot kaya walang time para panganga-ilangan ng gamit ng SWAT, AFP at SAF.

may punto ka. mayroon ngang pananagutan ang dating pangulo sa pangyayaring ito. sa loob ng siyam na taon niyang panunungkulan, masasabi nating sapat na ito para mapahusay at mapaunlad ang kaalaman at kagamitan ng PNP at SWAT team. Sa kabilang banda..., may pananagutan din ang kasalukuyang pamahalaan. dapat inalam/pinag-aralan agad ng bagong pamunuan ang kahinaan ng ating kapulisan sa ganitong sitwasyon - kung gayon,hindi dapat nai-atang/ipinaubaya lamang sa PNP at SWAT team ang krisis na nangyari kamakailan.

-ang aking piso

bitoy

August 27th, 2010, 04:17 AM

may punto ka. mayroon ngang pananagutan ang dating pangulo sa pangyayaring ito. sa loob ng siyam na taon niyang panunungkulan, masasabi nating sapat na ito para mapahusay at mapaunlad ang kaalaman at kagamitan ng PNP at SWAT team. Sa kabilang banda..., may pananagutan din ang kasalukuyang pamahalaan. dapat inalam/pinag-aralan agad ng bagong pamunuan ang kahinaan ng ating kapulisan sa ganitong sitwasyon - kung gayon,hindi dapat nai-atang/ipinaubaya lamang sa PNP at SWAT team ang krisis na nangyari kamakailan.

-ang aking piso

From what the local Police force commander stated on the interview, they got the handle of that hostage situation early on and don't need any outside help at that time. So, paniwala ang lahat na maayos na ito until the negotiation failed.
I'm just wondering kung ano talaga ang lahat ng pinagusapan ng negotiator at ni Mendoza sa haba ng oras na yun at yung mga demands niya na parang nagalit pa yata yung negotiator at nag matigas sa hostage-taker.

Mr. Sandman

August 27th, 2010, 05:00 AM

Meron talagang fully equipped group to handle this kind of situation, but I think that case is not in their jurisdiction and the PNP wanted to handle it since the hostage-taker is one of their own.Is this the group?

(BBC News) 26 August 2010 Last updated at 18:01 ET

Manila bus siege police ignored elite army unit's offer

Police handling the armed siege of a tour bus in Manila on Monday made no use of an offer of help from a military squad trained in hostage negotiations.

The Philippine capital's police chief told a Senate inquiry he believed his officers could handle the situation.

Eight tourists from Hong Kong were killed on board the bus after it was hijacked by a former policeman.

President Benigno Aquino has promised that "someone will pay" for the "many failures" in the operation.

The police action has been officially criticised in Hong Kong, where a three minute silence was held on Thursday for the victims.

Philippine Army spokesman Brig Gen Jose Mabanta told the Senate enquiry that a specialist squad had been available and ready to help police, after the bus with 15 tourists on board was hijacked by an armed former police officer demanding his job back.

The team was "highly-trained, highly-equipped" and had experience in hostage situations involving Abu Sayyaf Islamist militants in the southern Philippines, he said. <full story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11105097)>

Ang yabang ng PNP!

bitoy

August 27th, 2010, 12:33 PM

Is this the group?

(BBC News) 26 August 2010 Last updated at 18:01 ET

Manila bus siege police ignored elite army unit's offer

Police handling the armed siege of a tour bus in Manila on Monday made no use of an offer of help from a military squad trained in hostage negotiations.

The Philippine capital's police chief told a Senate inquiry he believed his officers could handle the situation.

Eight tourists from Hong Kong were killed on board the bus after it was hijacked by a former policeman.

President Benigno Aquino has promised that "someone will pay" for the "many failures" in the operation.

The police action has been officially criticised in Hong Kong, where a three minute silence was held on Thursday for the victims.

Philippine Army spokesman Brig Gen Jose Mabanta told the Senate enquiry that a specialist squad had been available and ready to help police, after the bus with 15 tourists on board was hijacked by an armed former police officer demanding his job back.

The team was "highly-trained, highly-equipped" and had experience in hostage situations involving Abu Sayyaf Islamist militants in the southern Philippines, he said. <full story (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11105097)>

Ang yabang ng PNP!

I think, that group was offered to MPD. It might be their EGO that hold the military elite force back nga.

Before Mayor Lim came back to office, dumami yata ang mga Elite group ng MPD. Meron anti-kidnapping, meron anti-terrorist, meron anti-drugs, anti-carnapping at meron antay-antay ng tong. :lol:

Nasa Divisoria ako, yung isang grupo ng Pulis na kumakain sa resto, halos lahat meron Airborne Wings sa dibdib nila...o diba parang special unit sila na Airborne cops. :D

Parchie

August 27th, 2010, 08:08 PM

I think, that group was offered to MPD. It might be their EGO that hold the military elite force back nga.

Before Mayor Lim came back to office, dumami yata ang mga Elite group ng MPD. Meron anti-kidnapping, meron anti-terrorist, meron anti-drugs, anti-carnapping at meron antay-antay ng tong. :lol:

Nasa Divisoria ako, yung isang grupo ng Pulis na kumakain sa resto, halos lahat meron Airborne Wings sa dibdib nila...o diba parang special unit sila na Airborne cops. :D

Parang totoo yang mga sinasabi mo!
Antay-terrorist group
Antay-kidnapping
Antay-drugs group
Most of "antay-lang hanggang sa marami na ang pinatay ng hostage-taker"
Antay-antay lang! Tama!

waraywaray architect

August 27th, 2010, 11:00 PM

spearhead

August 27th, 2010, 11:27 PM

^^Wow thats a lot of CAPSLOCK.

bitoy

August 28th, 2010, 01:32 AM

http://images.inquirer.net/media/newsinfo/inquirerheadlines/nation/images/pic-08280415220414.jpg
Meron pa palang Super Swat ang MPD... hindi nagamit :ohno:

‘Super SWAT’ was kept out of the loop

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20100828-289190/Super-SWAT-was-kept-out-of-the-loop

MANILA, Philippines—At the Manila Police District (MPD), there’s a faction within the Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) unit known mockingly as “Super SWAT,” an elite squad composed of veteran marksmen and arms experts.

But Super SWAT was kept out of the loop during the Aug. 23 hostage drama at the Luneta Park that left eight tourists and the hostage-taker dead, much to the frustration of its leader, Senior Insp. Jonathan dela Cruz.

“That’s not the SWAT I know,” he said of the unsure, bumbling unit of men whose assault on the bus taken hostage by former Senior Insp. Rolando Mendoza was captured live by cameras and made the subject of international derision.

“It’s embarrassing. We’re going to be used as an example of what not to do in a hostage situation,” he said Thursday night in an interview with some of his team members in a Manila restaurant.

Dela Cruz was supposed to have taken command of the MPD SWAT on Aug. 23, but a petition by some existing members—those who did not belong to his trusted circle—succeeded in retaining Chief Insp. Santiago Pascual as commander and keeping Dela Cruz and his team out of the action.

Pascual was later relieved with three other SWAT leaders as a result of their handling of the hostage crisis.

Nanflexal

August 28th, 2010, 03:07 AM

The government cannot allocate enough fund for AFP modernization but our beloved corrupt senator / congressman and government official are busy depleting philippines national budget.

Corrupt official lang ang gumayaman d2 sa pinas, ganun ka ganda d2 sa pinas, Dapat Itak nalang gamiting ng AFP natin para yon budget ng AFP mapunta nalang sa mga swapang na general nila at Corrupt PNP official including Senator / Congressman at Government official.

Maxxclip

August 28th, 2010, 04:18 AM

http://images.inquirer.net/media/newsinfo/inquirerheadlines/nation/images/pic-08280415220414.jpg
Meron pa palang Super Swat ang MPD... hindi nagamit :ohno:

‘Super SWAT’ was kept out of the loop

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20100828-289190/Super-SWAT-was-kept-out-of-the-loop

The Creation of Super Duper Mega Ever Major Major "Elite Strike Force"

MANILA, Philippines—President Benigno Aquino has ordered the creation of an “elite strike force” that could be deployed nationwide to address crisis situations such as the hostage-taking incident that resulted in the deaths of eight Hong Kong tourists on Monday.

Secretary Herminio Coloma of the Presidential Communications and Operations Office said Mr. Aquino wants 200 soldiers each from the Armed Forces and the Philippine National Police (PNP) to compose the small but specialized unit.

Coloma said it was one of the measures the President adopted after he himself saw how Manila police bungled the rescue of Hong Kong tourists held hostage by disgruntled former policeman Senior Insp. Rolando Mendoza.

“That is the immediate action that would be implemented on orders of the President,” Coloma said in an interview over radio station dzRH.

“This is a strong force, highly trained, with modern equipment and could be deployed in any area in the archipelago,” the communications secretary said.

Maxxclip

August 28th, 2010, 04:21 AM

The government cannot allocate enough fund for AFP modernization

Mr. Aquino himself said that he had already spoken with the chiefs of the military and the police to form the elite unit.

He also indicated in an earlier news conference that it would be better to concentrate resources on a few highly trained soldiers than have the necessary logistics spread over too many Special Weapons and Tactics teams or SWAT units.

“So, I already discussed this with Director General [Jesus] Verzosa, and also the Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Ricardo David, that both of their units will be organized and will operate on a national basis but perhaps on a smaller scale so we can properly maintain them,” President Aquino said.

Jarenz

August 28th, 2010, 01:25 PM

MANILA, Philippines—President Benigno Aquino has ordered the creation of an “elite strike force” that could be deployed nationwide to address crisis situations such as the hostage-taking incident that resulted in the deaths of eight Hong Kong tourists on Monday.

How about creating "Abnoy Special Task Force" . . .

Walang kwenta! . . . Tawa-tawa lang ang kalbo sa pangyayari. . . :bash:

gaLj

August 28th, 2010, 03:06 PM

^
Instead of creating another Elite force (which is bullish), he should then allocate more funds for training and purchase of modern equipments.

amigo32

August 28th, 2010, 03:21 PM

^
Instead of creating another Elite force (which is bullish), he should then allocate more funds for training and purchase of modern equipments.

like bigger maso:D para namn madali magiba ang bus:D

gaLj

August 28th, 2010, 03:35 PM

^
like this one
Thors hammer
http://www.superherotimes.com/news/images/450-ThorHammerHead.jpg
http://www.shirt80.com/images/large/Thor_Hammer_Costume.jpg

juniordiscovery

August 28th, 2010, 06:32 PM

prohibit the use of of heavily tinted window glass on vehicles to prevent incidence like this and set protocols to travel agencies,bus companies,mrt/lrt,PNR

Tama!

absinthe_888

August 28th, 2010, 07:51 PM

Sorsogueño

August 29th, 2010, 05:15 AM

Ito pala ang dahilan kung bakit hindi naka black uniforms yung mga SWAT nung monday...Pinagbawal palang gamitin ng NCRPO Director.

No more black SWAT uniforms--official

By Abigail Kwok
INQUIRER.net
First Posted 12:45:00 11/07/2008

Filed Under: Police, Organized Crime, Security (general)

MANILA, Philippines -- (UPDATE) Members of the Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) will no longer be seen wearing their popular black uniforms, National Capital Region Police Office Director Jefferson Soriano said Friday.

Instead, they will be wearing the ordinary blue police uniform, just like all police officers, Soriano told a media forum.

At the same time, Soriano also warned civilians against wearing SWAT or police uniforms.

“Bawal po yun [That is prohibited],” he said.

For civilians fond of wearing SWAT or other police uniforms for gun sport or simply for fun, Soriano advised them to take off the uniforms once they leave the recreational area or not wear the shirt altogether.

The move, Soriano said, was a way to curb criminality, particularly with the rising number of robbery groups posing as members of SWAT or police to gain access to private business establishments.

“They [robbery groups] committed crimes against the people of NCR. They desecrated our uniform. So yun pong kasalanan nila, hindi po mapatawad ng pulis [The PNP cannot forgive their crimes]. Prohibited na ngayon ang SWAT uniform sa [The SWAT uniform is prohibited in] Metro Manila. Walang magsusuot ng itim na uniporme [Nobody will wear the black uniform]. Pag meron, may instructions kami, birahin niyo kaagad [If there is anyone wearing the black SWAT uniform, we are under instructions to get them]. Yun yung tugon po namin sa problemang ito [This is our response to that problem]. It’s a complete turnaround of the SWAT uniform,” he said.

Soriano said they have noted at least three robbery groups, including the Alvin Flores robbery group, whose modus operandi was to pose as members of the police or military force to gain access to an establishment, with the latest such incident happening at the St. Scholastica's College in Manila.

With this, he also said that police were now looking at the possible legal move against retailers and makers of these police t-shirts.

“Tinitignan natin ang legal basis para makumpiska yung nagbebenta ng unauthorized uniform at pati nagtatahi [We are going to look at the legal basis so that we can confiscate those who are selling or sewing unauthorized uniforms]. Sa ngayon walang legal sanctions kasi [Right now, there are no legal sanctions],” Soriano said.

The ban will stay, he said, until they re-assessed the situation again in December.

Soriano has offered a P500,000-reward for any information leading to the arrest of these robbery groups.

He said they have information that could lead to the arrest of these groups.

“Meron na [We have information already]. Please bear with us, and hopefully we will be able to give you positive information,” Soriano said.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/metro/view/20081107-170825/No-more-black-SWAT-uniforms--official

mwg12a

August 29th, 2010, 05:21 AM

LET'S ALL GET BACK TO BUSINESS. NOT DISCOUNTING TRUE CHINESE TOURISTS, THERE ARE PROBABLY A LOT OF CHINESE SPIES IN OUR COUNTRY POSING AS TOURISTS. THEY ARE OVER-REACTING AND BEHAVE AS IF IT'S THE FAULT OF THE ENTIRE NATION. IF THEY DON'T WANT TO COME TO THE PHILIPPINES - FINE! WE DON'T NEED THEM, ESPECIALLY THE SPIES. LET THEM BE THEIR OWN YAYAS IN HONGKONG.

AND TO THOSE WHO ALWAYS POINT FINGERS AND MAKE FUN OF THE PHILIPPINE SWAT TEAM, WHY DON'T YOU OFFER SOME POSITIVE COMMENTS, SAY OF REFORMING THE SWAT? YOU THINK IT'S EASY TO PUT YOUR LIFE ON THE LINE TRYING TO SAVE SOMEBODY? IT'S NOT AN EASY THING TO DO. MASYADO NA NGA SILANG NA-DEGRADE SA MGA NANGYARI, PAGTATAWANAN NYO PA.

LET'S ALL REMEMBER ONE THING CLEAR HERE: CHINESE COMMUNISTS ARE BUILDING UP THEIR MILITARY AND ARE EXPANDING. THEY ALREADY LAID CLAIMS TO PARTS OF SPRATLY'S THAT'S TOO FAR FROM THE CHINESE MAINLAND AND SET UP AIRFIELDS AND MILITARY OUPOSTS THERE. YOU THINK THEY ARE NOT UP TO SOMETHING? BESIDES, THEY ARE VERY SECRETIVE WHEN IT COMES TO THEIR MILITARY SPENDING AND PURPOSE OF MILITARY BUILD UP, THAT ONE DAY THE PHILIPPINES WILL WAKE UP AND THEY ARE ALREADY INVADED BY THE CHINESE.

LET'S ALL GO BACK TO MILITARY DISCUSSIONS, ESPECIALLY ON HOW THE PHILIPPINES CAN PROTECT IT'S SOVEREIGNTY AGAINST POSSIBLE CHINESE ATTACK OR INVASION. WHO KNOWS? THEY ARE THE BIGGEST THREAT OF ALL ASIAN NEIGHBORS.

Dios mio naman. Pinapairal na naman ang paranoia.... Kung sumugod man ang China sa filipinas, Spratley lang ang hangad nuon dahil sa posibleng langis hindi buong filipinas. Buong mundo ang naka witness ng kamalian ng PNP at SWAT team. Dapat lang sisihin ang mga ito, may isang pinoy na inusente din ang namatay. Alam kong over reacting ang mga hinsik pero talaga naman kitang kita ang kahinaan ng mga ito pati sa mga mata ng karamihan kababayan nating pinoy. May mga nakaraan na insidente na witnessed ang kahinaan ng mga ito, mas umalingasaw lang ngayon dahil sa may mga dayuhan biktima ng trahediya na ito. Kailangan pa ba talagang dumaan sa ganito na ang buong mundo ang nakakasaksi ng pagkukulang ng PNP at SWAT bago pa kikilos para magtino ang mga ito?

Ady001

August 29th, 2010, 11:37 AM

^^ Parang kilala ko si waRAywaRAy Architect ah... Taga Singapore siguro... :lol:

gmaer

August 29th, 2010, 12:46 PM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/23/Sokol05th2.jpg
PZL W-3PL Gluszec of Polish Land Forces

This was also suggested:

FYI the PZL W-3PL Gluszec is different from the Polish Sokol that the Philippine Air Force ordered. The Polish Gluszec is the armed variant of the Polish Sokol.

Defense leadership reviewing AFP modernization contracts okayed by GMA

By Jaime Laude
(The Philippine Star)
Updated August 22, 2010 12:00 AM

MANILA, Philippines - The new defense leadership is reviewing the multi-billion-peso Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) modernization contracts entered into by the previous Arroyo administration.

Defense spokesman Eduardo Batac said the review covers all military contracts exceeding the P50-million ceiling.

“We are checking everything and if we detect anything questionable, then we will investigate,” Batac said.

But Batac pointed out that the review was not intended to pave the way for the scrapping of government-to-government contracts ordered fast tracked by former defense secretary Noberto Gonzales.

The projects involved the acquisition of combat utility helicopters from Poland for the Air Force as well as two multi-role vessels for the Navy.

Before quitting as defense chief, Gonzales had also directed the Army leadership to submit its own procurement proposal for the upgrading of the unit’s land fighting capabilities.

Officials said the Army needs more light and medium tanks as well as 155 Howitzers for its anti-terror and anti-secessionist campaigns across the country.

“We’re not saying that those contracts were anomalous. While the AFP really needs to modernize, we still have to check if those contracts were aboveboard, and if they’re not we’ll investigate,” Batac said.

A formidable force in the region in the late 60s, the AFP is now lagging behind its counterparts in neighboring countries.

Under the leadership of Secretary Voltaire Gazmin, the defense department is determined to pursue modernization for the AFP to bolster its capability to defend the country from internal and external threats, Batac said.

AFP chief, Lt. Gen. Ricardo David earlier appealed to Congress for more funds.

Thank you for posting this! As you can see the Polish Sokol deal was worth more than the 50 million pesos ceiling therefore such deal will also be reviewed and may still be cancelled! Buying brand new military equipment would always present opportunities for for corruption (like what happened to the 1st NCAH bid that got cancelled) compared to those that are donated or given for free.

Makes me wondering...

Where was the PNP Special Action Force yesterday?

Hostage taking is normally not a SAF job

i don't think China will allow us to have that fighter.. we are at odds over the Spratly's, not too mention we are a staunch ally of Uncle Sam

i'm thinking of French Dassault Mirage 2000's :lol:

^ I agree and an arms embargo with China is something that the AFP cannot afford. I rather choose an IAI KFIR 2000 C10/C12 upgrade than the French Mirage 2000!

Just as I observed yesterday's Hostage Crisis, I would like to point out lapses by the PNP and the lack Political Management to handle suck scenario:

1.) No Crisis Management was Set -up (Who is the Leader from PNP to coordinate and Politicians to assist. (Mayor Lim & Isko Moreno did nothing)

2.) PNP personnel lacked proper equipment

3.) No Armored Vehicles to support assault

4.) No proper crowd, media control

5.) They could have open the undercarriage of the bus while limiting tv coverage, the hostage taker is watching tv (abs-cbn or gma, no one knows)

Any comments...

Why use an armored vehicle to support assault when the hostage taker is inside a bus? And the presence of an armored vehicle is an overkill which will eliminate the element of surprise due to its huge presence and will also agitate the hostage taker.

^^ tsk...

un ngang sniper sa grandstand na pinakita walang suot pang itaas...:nuts:

What do you mean? And does a sniper who is concealed from a far away and safe distance needs one?

The FC1 has already been offered to the PAF. Philippines Defence Forum (http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=12245.0)
But due to the politics and the vast coastal boundaries, the PAF should opt for a twin-engined aircraft, preferrably the American F/A-18C/D (http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/3/4/8/1465843.jpg) (instead of its single-engined equivalent F-16C/D), and if the budget is not a problem, then a couple squadrons of the Eurofighter (http://www.skycontrol.net/UserFiles/Image/MilitaryAviation_img/200809/200809-eurofighter-typhoon-50000-hours.jpg) or the French Rafale (http://www.militarypower.com.br/avi-Rafale01.jpg) (priced around USD $80m-100m per unit) would be the best suited option for the next 20-30 years.

A twin-engined fighter jet is one of the PAF requirements. Where did you get these figures? And remember that acquiring a fighter jet is not all about unit cost but also the cost to operate and maintain them.

Arvor

August 29th, 2010, 10:46 PM

_Lz0fPk3GoE

Well there should be a dedicated unit for dealing with bus, aircraft or other hijackings and major hostage events beyond the local police forces ability to handle.

For example the French have a special force called the GIGN a type of swat numbering around 400 men divided into groups with specialties a budget of around 120 million pesos ( but of course they are in Europe so the costs might not be as high in the Phillipines ), they have a very tough physical and psychological selection process have their own base and training camp, dedicated ground vehicles and equipment while they get helicopters and transport aircraft at their disposal when needed or for training or transport, they usually just fly them out around the country or overseas territories to where they are needed, by using the same force to deal with those situations again and again they gain massive amounts of expertise .

AseS9UuWvOw
Local police still have their own guys aswell

Parchie

August 30th, 2010, 02:14 AM

LAPDRN

August 30th, 2010, 05:39 AM

ok lang tayo, basta may maso tayong pamalo nang bintana.
basta malaking nakukurakot nang mga senador at congressman mas lalong ok.
pabayaan niyo na kung ayaw pumunta mga insik sa pinas, marami nang insik d2 sa atin na nag aabuse nang mga pinoy
si noynoy insik din COQUANCO

Arvor

August 30th, 2010, 07:20 AM

Yep. It's really nice to dream of things! I wonder if those dreams can be translated into reality!

Malacañang said President Benigno Simeon Aquino III wants to set up an "elite strike force" to deal with future hostage-taking incidents and other similar crises.

Presidential Communications Operations Office head Herminio Coloma said Aquino wants the force to have members from the Philippine National Police (PNP) and the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP).

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/199555/aquino-wants-strike-force-vs-hostage-taking-other-crises

As was mentioned on the previous pages and this news report (above) they are planning to dedicate (200?) people from the pnp and the army, its simply about reforming the system and having the procedural discipline to always task this same force to be in charge of such operations in order to amass a high degree of experience, expertise and in time ressources .

It is not as much a question of money as ive mentioned the French force's budget was converted from Eur to Php and does not mean that the cost would be the same, some of the equipment they would need already exists the air force still has some helicopters and we still have at least one c130 for transport while the specialized ground vehicles are realistically whitin the nations means to procure, these are just a few suv's with a few added modifications the rest of the specialized equipment are likewise realistically affordable for such a small force .

It would therefor be truelly ridiculous if the country cant afford those specialized items !, and if you are insinuating that it is "a dream" due to some kind of inability of the country to concieve such organizational structures and procedures then might aswell rescind sovereignty and have the US, Spain or other countries readministrate the land .

pi_malejana

August 30th, 2010, 07:22 AM

Hostage taking is normally not a SAF job

pataasan kasi sila ng ihi dyan... tignan mo may "super swat" daw silang naka-standby ayaw gamitin, baka mamaya meron pa silang "major major super swat" dyan...:bash:

What do you mean? And does a sniper who is concealed from a far away and safe distance needs one?

haha, talaga??:D hmm, kung mainit nga naman ung pwesto nya, o sige di ko na siya masisi...:lol::nuts:

april boy

August 30th, 2010, 01:54 PM

FYI the PZL W-3PL Gluszec is different from the Polish Sokol that the Philippine Air Force ordered. The Polish Gluszec is the armed variant of the Polish Sokol.

Who said they are the same?Please check the original post of mine.:):):cheers::cheers:

muzic_lover2981

August 30th, 2010, 11:14 PM

Is it true guys that we have this kind of helicopter?
heres is the link in wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-62

muzic_lover2981

August 30th, 2010, 11:22 PM

Can anyone confirm this out? Do we still have this Sikorsky s-76 as per the wikiipedia, milatary has 17. Is it true, pls refer to this link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-76

absinthe_888

August 31st, 2010, 04:40 AM

Tsismis :D

Polish-ing our air force (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=607610&publicationSubCategoryId=66)

One of the worst midnight deals signed by the former Department of National Defense head, Norberto Gonzalez, was the procurement of Polish helicopters for our Air Force. It seems the Philippine Air Force will be polished up by buying Polish-made PZL Swidnik Sokol helicopters the kind that even the Polish government itself won’t buy. Spy Bits was informed that in the last 30 years, only two countries Myanmar and the former Czechoslovakia have bought these so called Sokols (and even then under compelling circumstances). Late last month, the Polish Ministry of National Defence announced the intention to buy 26 new choppers for a “unified helicopter platform” for its navy, army and Special Forces by the end of the year. But guess what none of these helicopters will be the Sokol, as the platforms chosen will most likely be the Sikorsky S-70i Black Hawk or S-92. As a matter of fact, even the Polish Ministry of Health did not think enough of PZL Swidnik, opting instead to purchase 23 choppers from the French manufacturer Eurocopter for its emergency medical services fleet.

Last year, Italian aircraft manufacturer Augusta Westland bought out PZL Swidnik and has since fired more than 500 personnel an indication that the new owners are not inclined to continue manufacturing Sokols (competitors of Augusta’s A139 and A159 models) or any other PZL helicopter for that matter. And when that happens the Philippine Air Force will be left “holding the bag” since there will be no parts for replacement, repairs, maintenance and other after-sales support requirements. What a set up!

april boy

August 31st, 2010, 03:28 PM

kalbongdad

August 31st, 2010, 04:05 PM

ang nagagawa talaga ng intriga....mas gusto pa nya ng libreng nagbabagsakan na helicopter ma forward lang nya ang kanyang agenda.......hope everything will be above board so that the sale pushes through and we will be able to have brand new equipment....nde ukay ukay....

Arvor

August 31st, 2010, 10:27 PM

Well there is merit to the argument the Poles arent buying these aircraft because they are obsolete when it comes to Nato and western military standards at least in terms of what those armies are fielding mainly more advanced designs such as the NH90 and Tiger attack helicopters .

xoxCOSp3Nuk&feature
RIaCGEwaMA0&feature
MI8/ here an MI17 variant vid 2 with weapon racks

By going cheap with an east block design one wonders why they went with the PZL Sokol when they could have gone for the MI8/17 helicopter which has a long record and is widely used around the world ( the unit price is only slightly higher ) i think Thailands purchased them recently .

http://www.buzzen.com/files/pictures/img_169513_1_55.jpg
Large and useful rear hatch/ramp

april boy

September 1st, 2010, 01:00 AM

april boy

September 1st, 2010, 02:13 AM

Yes to this and for the modernization of the military...:cheers::cheers:

No ukay ukay equipment please...:lol::lol::lol:

Ortigas group eyes Camp Aguinaldo

Malaya Business Insights
September 1, 2010

Realty firm Ortigas & Co. of the Ortigas family is eyeing to develop the military and police’s 220-hectare Camp Aquinaldo and Camp Crame headquarters.

Rex Drilon, Ortigas chief operating officer, yesterday said it plans to revive "in the next few months" its proposal to modernize the military by relocating Camp Aguinaldo and Camp Crame and redevelop the property for commercial use.

Drilon said they had submitted a similar conceptual plan with the Arroyo administration through former defense secretary Avelino Cruz but this was shelved after Cruz left the government.

Under the new administration, Drilon said they plan to come up with another proposal which will include cash for modern military hardware as well as housing for enlisted personnel.

Drilon noted the Aquino administration’s pronouncements earlier on the need to modernize the military. Drilon said they intend to seek partners for their proposal, adding they are hoping to be able to exercise their reversal rights to some 34 hectares the firm donated to the government in 1968.

Drilon said the company will focus on the redevelopment of this area while other developers may take charge of the government portion of the land as well as by providing the military with a replacement site for the two camps.

Raven83

September 1st, 2010, 02:39 AM

Can anyone confirm this out? Do we still have this Sikorsky s-76 as per the wikiipedia, milatary has 17. Is it true, pls refer to this link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-76

Yep,most are painted in SAR configuration.

Is it true guys that we have this kind of helicopter?
heres is the link in wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_S-62

Yes,those were delivered in the early 60's and was part of the
Presidential wing until the early 80's when it was replaced by Puma and S-70.then by Bell 412 by President Ramos. One is on display at PAF Museum in Villamor

april boy

September 1st, 2010, 02:45 AM

Nakakainggit...:):)

Taiwan set to deploy cruise missiles

Wednesday, 01 September 2010 00:00
Manila Times

http://www.manilatimes.net/images/stories/rokstories/2010/0901/taiwan0901.jpg
[Tsoying, TAIWAN : Two Taiwanese naval personel maneuver a gun installed on an indigenous missile boat during a drill outside the southern naval base in Tsoying on Sunday. The navy paid respect to the sailors participating in a series of bloody naval battles with the Chinese communists in 1958 following the Artillery Bombardment of Kinmen, a Taiwan-controlled fortified island group off China's Xiamen city. AFP PHOTO]

TAIPEI: Taiwan plans to deploy its own cruise missiles by the end of this year, a lawmaker and military pundit said on Tuesday, reflecting continued tension with China despite warming ties.

Taiwan began mass producing the Hsiungfeng 2E cruise missiles after it acquired “key components” needed to manufacture the missiles, and will start deploying them this year, lawmaker Lin Yu-fang told Agence France-Presse.

Lin, a member of the ruling Kuomintang party, declined to specify the range of the missiles or the number to be put into service.

The defense ministry would not provide details of the sensitive weaponry development project when approached for comment.

A source close to the ministry said the military “has produced at least dozens cruise missiles.”

A top military chief spoke of the need for a military build-up despite the fast warming ties between Taipei and Beijing over the past two years.

“Although tensions between Taipei and Beijing have eased substantially, the Chinese Communists have not renounced the use of force against Taiwan,” Lin Chen-yi, chief of the General Staff, told reporters in Taipei.

President Ma Ying-jeou gave an order in 2008 for the production of 300 Hsiungfeng 2E cruise missiles, according to the Taipei-based China Times.

The paper said Hsiungfeng 2E, which was developed by the military-run Chungshan Institute of Science and Technology, has a range of about 800 kilometers.

The institute has spent 2.2 billion Taiwan dollars ($68 million) each year since 2000 on developing the missiles, whose name means Brave Wind, and managed to expand its range from 600 to 800 kilometers, it said.

The missile could be launched on land or at sea, the paper said, adding that it would be capable of hitting airports and missile bases in southeast China, as well as cities such as Shanghai and Hong Kong.

China and Taiwan have been governed separately since the end of a civil war in 1949, but Beijing views the island as part of its territory awaiting reunification, by force if necessary.

The Pentagon said in an annual report to Congress earlier this month that China’s military build-up against Taiwan has “continued unabated” despite improving political relations.

China has repeatedly threatened to invade Taiwan should the island declare formal independence.

However, tensions across the Taiwan Strait have eased since Ma took office on a Beijing-friendly platform.
AFP

bitoy

September 1st, 2010, 08:17 AM

^^ Pera naman talaga ang kelangan to get new armaments.

Teka, Kelangan ba natin ng cruise missiles? :D

Kintoy

September 1st, 2010, 09:26 AM

Cruz missiles siguro? :D

kalbongdad

September 1st, 2010, 04:05 PM

gaLj

September 1st, 2010, 07:43 PM

what an idiotic comment....wtf....mukhang kakosa ni finger pointing pnoy...:lol:

He humiliated himself :nuts:

muzic_lover2981

September 1st, 2010, 08:01 PM

Thanks Raven83!!! But are they still active>? I mean, still in the inventory of PAF?

Raven83

September 2nd, 2010, 03:42 AM

Thanks Raven83!!! But are they still active>? I mean, still in the inventory of PAF?

The Sikorsky S-76 yes,the S-61 has long been retired

kyril

September 2nd, 2010, 01:47 PM

@kalbongdad: totoo naman talaga e.

kalbongdad

September 2nd, 2010, 03:23 PM

@kalbongdad: totoo naman talaga e.

kung susundan natin ang logic mo......lahat ng minana ni pnoy ay dapat sisishin...pati sina prez. aguinaldo...dahil....minana rin ni pnoy ang mga tagumpay at kakulangan nila....:lol:.....mahirap man,,,,tanggapin nyo na,,,na ang pinili o ibinoto nyong lider ay mahina at palpak.....mabait nga siguro sya...pero iba ang mabait sa magaling......kaya nga ang mababait nagiging santo nde dapat nagiging presidente....choice nya na tumakbo walang nagtulak sa kanya tapos palpak naman pala siya.....obviously that he is unfit sa presidency.....ang unang step to solving the problem is to acknowledge the problem......pnoy has become the problem....rather that the professed solution...that he was painted to be.....never has the philippines been so humiliated in the family of nations......ngayon lang kahit yung dictatorship ni makoy we were not humiliated like this.....mula pa sa hk na hindi man lang isang ganap na bansa....isa lang administrave region ng china.....yumuko ang sovereign ng pinas sa isa lang executive ng hk.....naiintindihan nyo ba?....the guy is a pushover.....he is weak ...that is why he is making one mistake after the other.....

bitoy

September 5th, 2010, 08:44 AM

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07C24rd074fUK/610x.jpg

A Philippine flag is draped beside a fighter jet in the cargo bay of the nuclear-powered USS George Washington Nimitz-class aircraft carrier as it arrives in Manila on September 4, 2010. The four-day goodwill four day visit aims to further enhance ties between the US and the Philippines through community relations projects and professional exchanges between the two countries Navy counterparts.

Andiyan ba si nauticalboy dito? :D

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03lOdfZ6uYdgs/610x.jpg

Servicemen and women queue on deck of the nuclear-powered USS George Washington Nimitz-class aircraft carrier as it arrives in Manila on September 4, 2010.

le Reine

September 5th, 2010, 09:05 AM

^^Yup. Andito siya sabi niya sa fb.

gmaer

September 5th, 2010, 09:15 AM

Did PAF made the Right Decision in choosing a POLISH made Helicopter???

Who buys Polish choppers? (http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/insideOpinion.htm?f=2010/june/4/jojorobles.isx&d=2010/june/4)

It may sound like a bad Polish joke, but here it goes: How many Polish helicopters did the Polish government, which up until recently owned chopper manufacturer PZL-Swidnik, buy lately? The answer: None.

Yes, Swidnik (now AugustaWestland Swidnik, after it was purchased by the Anglo-Italian helicopter maker earlier this year), cannot even sell its products —including those that the Philippines intends to buy for its military—to its own government. Instead, the Polish Ministry of Health went to rival multinational manufacturer Eurocopter to purchase 23 choppers for its emergency medical services fleet, the first of which were delivered last year.

The deal to purchase helicopters for the Polish health ministry, by the way, was sealed in 2008, when Swidnik was still a state-owned company. That only means that the Polish government felt the local manufacturer’s helicopters were up to snuff even for emergency medical missions, let alone combat duty for its armed forces.

Now we learn that our Department of National Defense has purchased eight brand-new combat utility helicopters worth P2.8 billion from Swidnik. The first four of these helicopters—probably military versions of company’s PZL W-3A Sokol (“Falcon”) general-purpose chopper —is scheduled to be delivered within a year, according to one DND official.

Apart from the Polish Air Force, only the Czech and the Myanmar air forces are listed the primary users of the Sokol, of which 150 have been built since its introduction in 1985. Fully 80 percent of these helicopters were sold to the Polish government, which now does not even want to buy them anymore.

Published reports say that the DND’s contract to purchase the Sokols was a government-to-government deal with Poland and part of the 15-year, P300-billion armed forces modernization program that is about to end. The Sokols are intended to replace the venerable and accident-prone hand-me-down UH-1H Huey choppers that the Philippine Air Force has been using for nearly half a century now.

Earlier, the DND said it rejected plans to purchase reconditioned AH-1H Cobra attack helicopters from Israel, after the air force supposedly rejected that proposal. The Sokols, according to Defense Undersecretary Antonio Romero, met PAF’s requirements, particularly on lifting payload.

But because the deal to purchase the Polish aircraft was done government-to-government, supposedly to avoid allegations of corruption, no competitive bidding was held, our sources say. This meant that the DND and the Air Force were unable to choose from other helicopters available from other manufacturers.

In addition, these sources say that the purchase of Swidnik by its much-bigger competitor AugustaWestland bodes ill for the few countries that use Sokols in their armed forces. This is because Augusta will most likely shut down production of Sokols and other Swidnik craft, since these compete directly with their own products.

This is, our sources explain, is especially true for the Sokol, which is in direct competition with the popular Augusta A159 and A139 models. “What kind of support will PAF receive when the assembly lines of this helicopter are shut down?” said one. “Augusta’s purchase of Swidnik only means that Augusta intends to use Swidnik’s facilities to manufacture engines and other parts for its own line of helicopters and to kill a small competitor.”

All aircraft operators are aware that operation costs are more important in the long run than acquisition costs. Due to its old technology and dubious parts and support, the Sokol will cost more than more expensive new-generation helicopters by far.

Besides, aircraft industry experts say that aircraft manufacturers from the former communist bloc have very poor reputation as far as after-sales support is concerned. The lack of available spare parts and costly repairs will entail the regular grounding of fleets that use them, making them virtually useless.

Also, these sources add, the Sokol has a reputation of being grossly underpowered when compared with new-technology helicopters of same class. The aforementioned Augusta A159, for instance, with a maximum take-off weight of 6,000 kg, has a take-off power of 2,030 kw, whereas the Sokol with its 6,400 kg take-off weight has only has 1,340 kw power.

And so, while the DND did choose one of the cheapest military helicopters in the market in the Sokol, there is actually no assurance that these choppers will be in service for a long time, because they will soon be out of production. And instead of modernizing the Philippine military, the purchase of these Polish helicopters may be a waste of scarce funds intended to upgrade our fighting capabilities.

Indeed, while the focus has been on why the DND has been making big-ticket purchases only now, at the eve of the departure of the Arroyo administration, there has been little regard for the actual aircraft that the Philippines intends to buy. But any investigation of these so-called “midnight” purchases being made by the DND must also consider the type of equipment that is being bought.

The military’s record of purchasing equipment, after all, has been marred by allegations of corruption for decades. That is why our fighting men end up with bullet-proof vests and helmets that fail to stop even the lowest-caliber bullets while their logistics officers become unexplained billionaires overnight.

bitoy

September 5th, 2010, 09:20 AM

^^Yup. Andito siya sabi niya sa fb.

Sarap ng buhay ni Hasson talaga... malamang nasa MOA na sila at naglilibot , puwede ring "G" yung last letter ng naglilibot ... :lol:

RonnieR

September 5th, 2010, 04:03 PM

(UPDATE) Police kill militant commander, 2 men:cheers:
(philstar.com) Updated September 05, 2010 03:45 PM Comments (0) View comments

MANILA, Philippines (AP) — Police commandos killed an Abu Sayyaf commander linked to last year's kidnapping of Red Cross workers and gunned down two other militants in a clash in the south, officials said today.

Gafur Jumdail and two of his men were killed late Saturday near Maimbung town on Jolo island after clashing with commandos tracking a Malaysian militant, Jolo police chief Senior Superintendent Joseph Ramac said. An unknown number of militants may have been wounded in the brief battle, he said.

The death of Jumdail, who had been accused of several high-profile abductions including the January 2009 kidnappings of three Red Cross workers from Switzerland, Italy and the Philippines, is the latest blow to the Abu Sayyaf.

Still, the group remains a major security threat in the Philippines, and national police placed the entire force in the southern Mindanao region on full alert to brace for any possible retaliatory attacks over Jumdail's death.

The extremist group has been blamed for the country's worst bomb attacks, kidnapping sprees and for beheading some of its hostages. Washington has blacklisted the al-Qaeda-linked group as a terrorist organization and deployed hundreds of troops in the country's south to train and arm Filipino soldiers battling the militants.

The Malaysian that police were hunting is Zulkifli bin Hir, also known as Marwan, a U.S.-trained engineer accused by Philippine authorities of involvement in a number of deadly bombings in the country. The U.S. has offered a $5 million reward for his capture.

Marwan is believed to have been hiding with the Abu Sayyaf in the southern Philippines for years. It was not immediately clear if Marwan was with Jumdail during Saturday's assault, police said.

The U.S. State Department says Marwan is believed to be a leader of the militant organization Kumpulun Mujahidin Malaysia and a member of the central command of Jemaah Islamiyah, the al-Qaeda affiliate blamed for numerous regional attacks, including the 2002 Bali nightclub bombings in Indonesia.

kalbongdad

September 7th, 2010, 01:49 PM

a pat in the back....for our troops......well done......

gmaer

September 8th, 2010, 01:36 AM

a pat in the back....for our troops......well done......

Those Police Commandos are SAF troopers! :cheers:

Simple Dude

September 8th, 2010, 02:16 PM

^^ sana sila nalang yung nag- trabaho sa Hostage crisis,... :cheers:

any updates regarding to our Military Modernization?? (I just Hope there will be no more fighting again) :tongue3:

Igsuonnimo

September 8th, 2010, 02:52 PM

http://photos-p.friendster.com/photos/36/74/19014763/2_471270424l.jpg

mrboy

September 9th, 2010, 04:09 PM

PAF to get more planes next year (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/nation/view/20100909-291369/PAF-to-get-more-planes-next-year)

ZAMBOANGA CITY, Philippines—The military will have a robust air fleet next year, but in the meantime, the Philippine Air Force has to make do with what is available to perform its job, an Air Force official said Wednesday.

Lt. Col. Miguel Ernesto Okol, PAF spokesperson, said at least 18 trainer aircraft, eight combat utility helicopters “and more flying C130 airplanes” will be arriving starting next year.

Okol told reporters during a visit here that one of the C130 planes they were expecting will be coming from the United States.

The PAF is beset by a lack of aircraft. A number of its aircraft have crashed or are currently undergoing maintenance while others havce been grounded due to old age.

Okol said the Air Force expects that the arrival of more aircraft, including C130s, will boost the military’s capability to transport personnel and supplies during combat operations and deal with threats to national security.

While the PAF was optimistic, the Philippine Navy on the other hand said it continues to yearn for assets that could boost its performance.

Rear Adm. Danilo Cortez, acting Navy commander, said they might have two helicopters at the moment but these have been grounded due to problems.

“The Bolköw helicopters that we have are no longer working,” he said.

Cortez cited the importance of helicopters in search-and-rescue operations.

He said they were pinning their hopes for new air assets on the planned modernization for the military.

“Let’s hope that there will be new acquisitions,” Lt. Gen. Ben Dolorfino, Western Mindanao Command chief, said.

inquirer.net

Kintoy

September 9th, 2010, 04:41 PM

and one of the BO-105 crashed a few weeks ago ^^

Ma^ride

September 9th, 2010, 05:36 PM

How many C130s kaya yung sinasabi nila?

gaLj

September 9th, 2010, 06:21 PM

AFAIK we do have 2 working c130s but the other one is undergoing certain repairs which will be operation within the year. I also read that the AFP is planning to purchase another one to add in their portfolio maybe that's what the article pertains to.

gmaer

September 9th, 2010, 07:53 PM

How many C130s kaya yung sinasabi nila?

Another 1 2nd hand refurbished C-130 Hercules! :banana:

any updates regarding to our Military Modernization?? (I just Hope there will be no more fighting again) :tongue3:

Air Force to buy 22 trainer jets, 15 helicopters (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=607472&publicationSubCategoryId=63)
By Ding Cervantes (The Philippine Star) Updated August 30, 2010 12:00 AM

BASA AIR BASE, Pampanga, Philippines - The Philippine Air Force
(PAF) is set to purchase new aircraft, including 22 trainer jets, seven attack helicopters and eight combat utility helicopters.

In an interview with The STAR, PAF spokesman Lt. Col. Miguel Ernesto Ocol also said the PAF is slated to buy refurbished aircraft including a C-130 cargo plane, and special mission aircraft.

“For 2010, the Armed Forces of the Philippines is awaiting the release of P5 billion from the Department of Budget and Management. These are projects for the modernization program that were funded from the BCDA (Bases Conversion and Development Authority) remittances from the sale of military lands at the Fort Bonifacio,” Ocol said.

He said the PAF’s morale remains high despite accusations that the Aquino administration had mishandled the recent bloody hostage incident in Manila.

He said President Aquino’s “commitment to the military” has endeared him to the PAF which believes in his “capable leadership as our commander-in-chief.”

“Unlike before, the morale of the military is really up, because of the confidence that President Aquino has the solid mandate of the people,” said Air Defense Wing commander Lt. Col. Manuel Renatigue.

Ocol said the initial batch of new aircraft - costing about P600 million - would consist of 22 propeller-driven SS-260 trainer aircraft from Italy.

The second package would consist of seven new attack helicopters, eight combat helicopters, and eight combat utility helicopters.

Refurbished aircraft to be acquired by the PAF would consist of 10 UH-1H helicopters, C-130H cargo plane, and one special mission aircraft.

Ocol could not immediately say how much the aircraft under Package 2 would cost, but he noted that “the seven attack helicopter purchase is currently on the bidding stage with the bid opening scheduled on Sept. 9.”

He said that the acquisition of eight units of combat utility helicopters from Poland is “awaiting the opening of the letter of credit.”

“We do not purchase from countries whose military do not use the aircraft we’re buying,” he stressed.

Ocol also said that the acquisition of 10 UH-1H helicopters “is undergoing review of technical specifications,” while the purchase of an “upgraded C-130H is currently on the bidding process with the pre-bid conference to be participated in by interested proponents on Sept. 20.”

“The plan for a special mission aircraft is also currently in the process of requirement determination,” he added.

Ocol said that the P5-billion modernization program is provided for in the AFP Modernization Law approved in 1995.

Renatigue said the acquisition program consists of three phases of six years each, called “horizons” by the PAF. He said Horizon 1 pertains to “internal security operations,” which supposedlly ended last July.

“While Horizon 1 already ended, we are still implementing its last phases with the purchases of trainer aircraft. Horizon 2 is supposed to provide the transition towards external defense which is Horizon 3,” he said.

Ocol said that under Horizon 3, the PAF plans to purchase multi-role fighter aircraft, surface attack/lead-in fighter aircraft, air defense radar systems, long-range patrol aircraft, and ground based air defense systems equipment, among others.

“While there is no external threat that needs air defense at the moment, these modern aircraft can be used for other purposes that might suit national interest,” Ocol said.

april boy

September 10th, 2010, 02:51 AM

On Target

PNP’s substandard bullet-proof vests, etc
:bash::bash::bash:
By Ramon Tulfo
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 23:24:00 09/08/2010

Filed Under: Police, hostage taking, Grandstand Hostage

THE PRESIDENT has ordered Philippine National Police chief Jess Verzosa to file administrative charges against a high-ranking PNP official for the purchase of substandard bullet-proof vests and other equipment used by the Special Action Force (SAF).

SAF is the PNP’s commando unit that was not utilized during the Luneta hostage crisis.

P-Noy issued the order after a surprise visit to the headquarters of the elite force.

Verzosa is not the right guy to file the administrative case against the concerned PNP official since he himself approved the purchase of the substandard equipment.

By the way, the concerned PNP official has already retired.

* * *

A Camp Crame insider says the former high PNP official P-Noy wants charged committed other irregularities.

The retired police general was also responsible for the purchase of defective shotguns, substandard M-16 ammunition and used M-16 rifles that were made to appear as factory-fresh.:ohno:

He also made purchases of :ohno: The retiree made the PNP buy the equipment from a firm he allegedly partly owns, according to my source.

* * *

When the defective or substandard equipment were given to SAF, Chief Supt. Leocadio Santiago, then the SAF commander, did not accept them.

Santiago reportedly called up the PNP general and told him, “Okay lang na gumawa kayo ng pera, pero huwag naman ninyo patayin ang mga sundalo ko (It’s okay if you make money, but not at the expense of the lives of my men).

Some of the substandard equipment were returned to Camp Crame and then diverted to ordinary police units, says my source.

* * *

How were the rifles made to appear new? My source says old barrels from M-16 rifles were sent to a gun repair shop which sawed off the barrels, then polished these to make it appear they were short barrels of “baby” M-16 Armalites.

The refitted M-16 rifles, along with the defective shotguns and bullets, are now being used by ordinary PNP units.

* * *

Maxxclip

September 10th, 2010, 03:02 AM

The Creation of Super Duper Mega Ever Major Major "Elite Strike Force"

this is it!

Aquino announces plan to form British-style elite security force

MANILA, Philippines—President Benigno Aquino III Thursday said that in the wake of the hostage fiasco last month, he was forming a security force similar to Britain’s Special Air Service, or SAS, to respond to crisis situations in the country.

In a nationally televised news conference with major major network anchors called to deflect criticisms of ineptitude, Mr. Aquino said he would integrate some 200 to 400 police and military troops that would be fielded to combat “any threat, be it air, sea or land.”

The President said that the force from the Philippine National Police and the Armed Forces of the Philippines would be similar to the SAS, a special regiment of the British Army that gained fame for its exploits during World War II. It is regarded as more efficient than the US Navy SEALs.

“We will copy to a degree (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20100910-291442/Aquino-announces-plan-to-form-British-style-elite-security-force) the formation of that national unit,” he said.

bitoy

September 10th, 2010, 06:39 AM

Reminder: demo lang po ito. Ang tanong, are they really going to risk their lives during an assault?

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eoPgzoa9m6wn/610x.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/05ex5636xm3N5/610x.jpg

Members of the Philippine National Police Special Action Force demonstrate their skills during a mock bus hostage rescue operation Thursday, Sept. 9, 2010, at the capital command grounds at Camp Bagong Diwa, Taguig city.

Some victims say that it took the swat more than 30 minutes to get in after the initial assault.

Actual hostage scene.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01gOcjK7i73ux/610x.jpg

gmaer

September 10th, 2010, 11:34 AM

this is it!

Aquino announces plan to form British-style elite security force

MANILA, Philippines—President Benigno Aquino III Thursday said that in the wake of the hostage fiasco last month, he was forming a security force similar to Britain’s Special Air Service, or SAS, to respond to crisis situations in the country.

In a nationally televised news conference with major major network anchors called to deflect criticisms of ineptitude, Mr. Aquino said he would integrate some 200 to 400 police and military troops that would be fielded to combat “any threat, be it air, sea or land.”

The President said that the force from the Philippine National Police and the Armed Forces of the Philippines would be similar to the SAS, a special regiment of the British Army that gained fame for its exploits during World War II. It is regarded as more efficient than the US Navy SEALs.

“We will copy to a degree (http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20100910-291442/Aquino-announces-plan-to-form-British-style-elite-security-force) the formation of that national unit,” he said.

No need! The AFP/PNP already has such unit... they just need to better equip them and implement a media block-out!

Reminder: demo lang po ito. Ang tanong, are they really going to risk their lives during an assault?

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eoPgzoa9m6wn/610x.jpg

Yes they will... provided that they have the complete and right protective equipment.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/05ex5636xm3N5/610x.jpg

Very unusual use of an armored personnel carrier in a bus hostage taking scene.

Members of the Philippine National Police Special Action Force demonstrate their skills during a mock bus hostage rescue operation Thursday, Sept. 9, 2010, at the capital command grounds at Camp Bagong Diwa, Taguig city.

My college friend was one of those who participated the said demo.

Alinghi

September 10th, 2010, 12:00 PM

Air Force chopper explodes in Ilocos Sur; passengers safe

CAMP MELCHOR DELA CRUZ, Isabela – Government soldiers and the flight crew of a Philippine Air Force UH-1H helicopter survived Friday afternoon when the aircraft exploded seconds after it touched down in Barangay (village) Nagrebcan in Santa Lucia in Ilocos Sur.

The helicopter was ferrying several army soldiers to Barangay Sapang in Santa Lucia, but the aircraft failed to reach the destination due to engine trouble and was forced to land around 2 p.m.

The passengers were supposed to beef up a detachment in Sapang where combat operations against communist rebels in the area were ongoing.

Colonel Rogelio Migote, commander of the 50th Infantry Battalion soldiers who responded to the scene, said the helicopter pilot, his co-pilot, two crew members and the Army soldiers managed to flee before the helicopter was engulfed by fire.

He said all passengers were safe.

Migote said they have yet to confirm the names and the number of the passengers.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/regions/view/20100910-291519/Air-Force-chopper-explodes-in-Ilocos-Sur-passengers-safe

kalbongdad

September 10th, 2010, 12:17 PM

gmaer

September 10th, 2010, 12:32 PM

reason enough not to procure ukay ukay choppers from the u.s.

Nope! They will still acquire 2nd hand refurbished aircraft from the US and its allies... 10 UH-1H helicopters, C-130H cargo plane, and one special mission aircraft as posted in my post #699 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=63438805&postcount=699). I guess the special mission aircraft is the long range maritime patrol aircraft.

kalbongdad

September 10th, 2010, 01:29 PM

Simple Dude

September 10th, 2010, 02:03 PM

^^ hai, sana namang mag double time yung gobyerno natin sa pag Modernize ng Military Equipments na yan,....

2nd hand choppers for me(or any vehicles) is ok, but i just don't advice it,...

Simple Dude

September 10th, 2010, 02:16 PM

^^ anyway, hehe regarding to the PAF modernization,... (hopefully in the near future). i would prefer F-15 Eagle as our Air superiority Aircraft intended to enter and seize control of enemy airspace. and F-15 Strike Eagle as the Ground attack and Strike fighter aircraft designed to attack targets on the ground and are often deployed as close air support for,and in proximity to, their own ground forces and also designed for a multi-role combat aircraft designed to operate primarily in the tactical bombing role while incorporating certain performance characteristics of air superiority fighters. So i would like this aircraft's to be our Primary Aircraft's. :cheers:

If multi-role fighter i would prefer F-16 Fighting Falcon or JAS-39 Grippen,... and for the ground attack... A10 will be just fine for me for the replacement of our OV-10 Bronco and A10's just cost 11millionUSD,... :okay: i just hope we could afford F-22's in the future, coz 3 in 1 na kasi to eh... Stealth,Multirole, and air superiority aircraft,... hehe This is just according to my own research,... :lol:

kalbongdad

September 10th, 2010, 02:32 PM

Manila-X

September 10th, 2010, 03:09 PM

Reminder: demo lang po ito. Ang tanong, are they really going to risk their lives during an assault?

This is what they are trained and get payed for. If these people are not willing to risk their lives during an assault then they should be doing other jobs instead.

Like I said in the other forums, I respect the SAF. And they have been proven successful in past similar conflicts.

bitoy

September 10th, 2010, 07:13 PM

This is what they are trained and get payed for. If these people are not willing to risk their lives during an assault then they should be doing other jobs instead.

Like I said in the other forums, I respect the SAF. And they have been proven successful in past similar conflicts.

I know what you mean, when they signed the dotted line to join the force that includes their ultimate sacrifice if they have to.
But, have you seen the footage during and after the actual shootout with the hostage-taker? (ok, they are not the real SAF team), but nonetheless, they should have acted like professionals.

gmaer

September 10th, 2010, 08:15 PM

dude.....mukhang sinusunod mo talaga sabi ni pnoy na pwede na tayong mangarap.....:lol: ...... reality check tayo....

Yeah reality check... the A-10 may cost $11 million but that is the unit cost alone in 1994 excluding the fact that it is maintenance expensive due to its age because you can no longer buy a brand new unit - it will soon be replaced by the F-35 Lightning.

juniordiscovery

September 10th, 2010, 10:14 PM

Another 1 2nd hand refurbished C-130 Hercules! :banana:

Air Force to buy 22 trainer jets, 15 helicopters (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=607472&publicationSubCategoryId=63)
By Ding Cervantes (The Philippine Star) Updated August 30, 2010 12:00 AM

BASA AIR BASE, Pampanga, Philippines - The Philippine Air Force
(PAF) is set to purchase new aircraft, including 22 trainer jets, seven attack helicopters and eight combat utility helicopters.

In an interview with The STAR, PAF spokesman Lt. Col. Miguel Ernesto Ocol also said the PAF is slated to buy refurbished aircraft including a C-130 cargo plane, and special mission aircraft.

“For 2010, the Armed Forces of the Philippines is awaiting the release of P5 billion from the Department of Budget and Management. These are projects for the modernization program that were funded from the BCDA (Bases Conversion and Development Authority) remittances from the sale of military lands at the Fort Bonifacio,” Ocol said.

He said the PAF’s morale remains high despite accusations that the Aquino administration had mishandled the recent bloody hostage incident in Manila.

He said President Aquino’s “commitment to the military” has endeared him to the PAF which believes in his “capable leadership as our commander-in-chief.”

“Unlike before, the morale of the military is really up, because of the confidence that President Aquino has the solid mandate of the people,” said Air Defense Wing commander Lt. Col. Manuel Renatigue.

Ocol said the initial batch of new aircraft - costing about P600 million - would consist of 22 propeller-driven SS-260 trainer aircraft from Italy.

The second package would consist of seven new attack helicopters, eight combat helicopters, and eight combat utility helicopters.

Refurbished aircraft to be acquired by the PAF would consist of 10 UH-1H helicopters, C-130H cargo plane, and one special mission aircraft.

Ocol could not immediately say how much the aircraft under Package 2 would cost, but he noted that “the seven attack helicopter purchase is currently on the bidding stage with the bid opening scheduled on Sept. 9.”

He said that the acquisition of eight units of combat utility helicopters from Poland is “awaiting the opening of the letter of credit.”

“We do not purchase from countries whose military do not use the aircraft we’re buying,” he stressed.

Ocol also said that the acquisition of 10 UH-1H helicopters “is undergoing review of technical specifications,” while the purchase of an “upgraded C-130H is currently on the bidding process with the pre-bid conference to be participated in by interested proponents on Sept. 20.”

“The plan for a special mission aircraft is also currently in the process of requirement determination,” he added.

Ocol said that the P5-billion modernization program is provided for in the AFP Modernization Law approved in 1995.

Renatigue said the acquisition program consists of three phases of six years each, called “horizons” by the PAF. He said Horizon 1 pertains to “internal security operations,” which supposedlly ended last July.

“While Horizon 1 already ended, we are still implementing its last phases with the purchases of trainer aircraft. Horizon 2 is supposed to provide the transition towards external defense which is Horizon 3,” he said.

Ocol said that under Horizon 3, the PAF plans to purchase multi-role fighter aircraft, surface attack/lead-in fighter aircraft, air defense radar systems, long-range patrol aircraft, and ground based air defense systems equipment, among others.

“While there is no external threat that needs air defense at the moment, these modern aircraft can be used for other purposes that might suit national interest,” Ocol said.

:cheers:

Simple Dude

September 11th, 2010, 03:59 AM

dude.....mukhang sinusunod mo talaga sabi ni pnoy na pwede na tayong mangarap.....:lol: ...... reality check tayo....

Nah,... We can just buy initial orders,... (with small numbers)... :) and in the future if our economy improves then we can buy a lot of this,... actually we can afford to buy this things,... for real, BUT its not the priority for now... even Vietnam na mas maliit pa nga national income nila kesa sa'tin meron silang soviet made warplanes... or Pakistan,... may nuclear pa nga sila eh :cheers:

mwg12a

September 11th, 2010, 08:21 AM

Thats the question there IF THE ECONOMY improve...

Brown Tiger

September 11th, 2010, 11:55 AM

:cheers:

This Helicopter Gunship is a good choice in Cost cutting/ Budget Saving Measure of Pnoy for the PAF:

Mil-24
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/DSC07442.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/DSC07432.jpg

Brown Tiger

September 11th, 2010, 12:02 PM

MY TOY REPLICAS FOR SALE (SCALE 1:70:)

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http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/DSC07435.jpg

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(SCALE 1:40) - OLD TANKS

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/DSC07428.jpg

kalbongdad

September 11th, 2010, 03:28 PM

yan....makakabili tayo ng marami nyan...:lol:

gmaer

September 12th, 2010, 10:55 AM

This Helicopter Gunship is a good choice in Cost cutting/ Budget Saving Measure of Pnoy for the PAF:

Mil-24
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/DSC07442.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af189/browntiger10/DSC07432.jpg

You're proposing toys for the AFP? :nuts:

Manila-X

September 12th, 2010, 12:15 PM

I know what you mean, when they signed the dotted line to join the force that includes their ultimate sacrifice if they have to.
But, have you seen the footage during and after the actual shootout with the hostage-taker? (ok, they are not the real SAF team), but nonetheless, they should have acted like professionals.

I've seen it on BBC. The who were involved in the actual shootout were MPD SWAT, not SAF. Both MPD SWAT and SAF are 2 different units.

The MPD SWAT acted as professional as they could but they just lack the experience or the training for such situation. Plus the lack of equipment and the wrong choice of weapons. Unlike the SAF which are trained for this kind, they have the right kind of equipment and use of weapons.

Again, it was a mistake for the SAF not to get involved on the assault.

Manila-X

September 12th, 2010, 12:20 PM

Very unusual use of an armored personnel carrier in a bus hostage taking scene.

This is why

AucJIXhhm9U

gmaer

September 12th, 2010, 01:00 PM

This is why

AucJIXhhm9U

Ahh they used the APC to ram and stop the bus from escaping! They could have just flattened the tires as what the SWAT did in the Luneta hostage crisis. I also noticed that the SAF commandos in the video aggressively attacked in numbers compared to the 7-man SWAT team that you will normally see on American TV.

bitoy

September 12th, 2010, 02:10 PM

I've seen it on BBC. The who were involved in the actual shootout were MPD SWAT, not SAF. Both MPD SWAT and SAF are 2 different units.

The MPD SWAT acted as professional as they could but they just lack the experience or the training for such situation. Plus the lack of equipment and the wrong choice of weapons. Unlike the SAF which are trained for this kind, they have the right kind of equipment and use of weapons.

Again, it was a mistake for the SAF not to get involved on the assault.

"JUST the lack of..etc " - does not qualify them as professionals. You should have seen the other videos by other media group before and after the hostage-taker was neutralized. It was total chaos especially their crowd control method.

Ahh they used the APC to ram and stop the bus from escaping! They could have just flattened the tires as what the SWAT did in the Luneta hostage crisis. I also noticed that the SAF commandos in the video aggressively attacked in numbers compared to the 7-man SWAT team that you will normally see on American TV.

That's a training demo, I'm sure in actual event, they know how to equate to the number of hostage-takers on how many swat members they would send for the assault.

I hope these things don't happen again.

april boy

September 13th, 2010, 07:04 AM

Nope! They will still acquire 2nd hand refurbished aircraft from the US and its allies... 10 UH-1H helicopters, C-130H cargo plane, and one special mission aircraft as posted in my post #699 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=63438805&postcount=699). I guess the special mission aircraft is the long range maritime patrol aircraft.

then our pilots and soldiers are doomed to perdition.....sana naman ito ang pakialaman ni pnoy......ahh oo nga pala.....nasa puso ang amerika baka puro u.s. ukay ukay kunin nito...:lol:

We never learned.

We are buying ukay ukay armaments again..

Air Force chopper explodes
Manila Standard
Sept. 13, 2010:ohno::ohno:

An Air Force Huey helicopter on Friday exploded seconds after it touched down in Santa Lucia, Ilocos Sur. Its crew and seven soldiers onboard were safe, Lt. Col. Miguel Ernesto Okol said.

The helicopter was ferrying the army soldiers to Barangay Sapang in Santa Lucia, but the aircraft piloted by Capt. John Gador and Lt. Edbert Ngina suffered engine trouble and was forced to land around 2 p.m.

The soldiers were supposed to beef up a detachment in Sapang where operations against communist rebels in the area were ongoing.

Soldiers of the 50th Infantry Battalion who responded to the scene said the helicopter pilot, his co-pilot, two crew members and the Army soldiers managed to flee before the aircraft was engulfed by fire.

Senior Supt. Eduardo Dopale, director of the Ilocos provincial police, said the chopper was completely burned. Florante Solmerin

muzic_lover2981

September 13th, 2010, 07:27 AM

unulit mo lang kuya ung post eh

Manila-X

September 13th, 2010, 08:14 AM

"JUST the lack of..etc " - does not qualify them as professionals. You should have seen the other videos by other media group before and after the hostage-taker was neutralized. It was total chaos especially their crowd control method.

That's a training demo, I'm sure in actual event, they know how to equate to the number of hostage-takers on how many swat members they would send for the assault.

I hope these things don't happen again.

I hope so as well.

But for the SAF, they have been proven in successfully resolving conflicts in their past experiences.

Mayor Lim being a former cop, should have known better. They were overconfident that their local law enforcement could have solved the crisis.

Unfortunately, it backfired! :(

Manila-X

September 13th, 2010, 08:16 AM

Ahh they used the APC to ram and stop the bus from escaping! They could have just flattened the tires as what the SWAT did in the Luneta hostage crisis. I also noticed that the SAF commandos in the video aggressively attacked in numbers compared to the 7-man SWAT team that you will normally see on American TV.

The APC was used to shatter the wind shield.

kalbongdad

September 13th, 2010, 02:06 PM

The APC was used to shatter the wind shield.

na over ka sa panonood ng tv.....kala mo yun ang reality.....it's the other way around.....cinematic effects yun......:lol:

Bhan Jojo Ngoi

September 13th, 2010, 03:44 PM

Break Muna!
http://acidcow.com/pics/20100913/acid_picdump_26.jpg

gmaer

September 13th, 2010, 06:33 PM

We never learned.

We are buying ukay ukay armaments again..

Now you know and the money will not come from the U.S. Military Assistance but the AFP modernization budget.

unulit mo lang kuya ung post eh

He never learns... :bash:

Alinghi

September 13th, 2010, 06:35 PM

Break Muna!
http://acidcow.com/pics/20100913/acid_picdump_26.jpg

WTF?!?!?! :lol: Kaya Pala!!! :bash:

gmaer

September 13th, 2010, 06:36 PM

Break Muna!
http://acidcow.com/pics/20100913/acid_picdump_26.jpgWTF?!?!?! :lol: Kaya Pala!!! :bash:

And that's why they (policemen) have fat bellies! :cheers:

Ma^ride

September 13th, 2010, 09:31 PM

:cheers:Bottoms up muna bago assault hik:lol:

LAPDRN

September 14th, 2010, 04:08 PM

And that's why they (policemen) have fat bellies! :cheers:

YEAH ONLY IN PHILIPPINES. PROUD OF YOU GUYS:cheers::cheers::cheers::nuts::cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers::banana::banana::cheers::cheers::cheers:

april boy

September 14th, 2010, 04:47 PM

Now you know and the money will not come from the U.S. Military Assistance but the AFP modernization budget.

He never learns... :bash:

Actually, I have learned that another ukay ukay Huey helicopter crashed because it malfunctioned and caught fire. Fortunately no one died. And thats a consolation. The helicopter by the way was totally wrecked.

Fantastic because the Huey was not even used in actual combat.

All the remaining Hueys in the AFP arsenal were grounded after the incident.

And the idea of AFP modernization of buying second hand ancient Hueys is pure crap.

And yet another batch of Hueys will be bought for the "modernization" of AFP.

We never learned.

hakz2007

September 14th, 2010, 05:38 PM

Philippines plans renovation in Spratly’s bases
MANILA, Sept 14 – The Philippines plans to repair and upgrade its military outposts on disputed islands in the South China Sea, an army spokesman said today, announcing visits by several government ministers in the coming days.

The Philippines occupies nine islands in the Spratlys, which is claimed wholly or in part by Brunei, China, Malaysia, Taiwan and Vietnam. Except for Brunei, all claimants have deployed troops in the disputed territories.

“There are actually major plans to renovate the Spratlys, including the islands’ airport and facilities,” Brigadier-General Jose Mabanta told reporters. He said civil engineers would be found to renovate the structures.

“If you will look at our facilities there, we need to do a lot of renovation due to poor maintenance, longstanding neglect and deterioration.”

Mabanta said four government ministers would visit the Spratlys within the next month to assess repairs.

President Benigno Aquino’s spokesman, Edwin Lacierda, said the trip was a routine re-supply misssion.

China and other claimant states are expected to protest against the visit, invoking an existing code of conduct prohibiting new construction and improvements of facilities in the disputed territories. – Reutershttp://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/philippines-plans-renovation-in-spratlys-bases/

Brown Tiger

September 14th, 2010, 07:43 PM

gmaer

September 14th, 2010, 07:54 PM

Actually, I have learned that another ukay ukay Huey helicopter crashed because it malfunctioned and caught fire. Fortunately no one died. And thats a consolation. The helicopter by the way was totally wrecked.

Fantastic because the Huey was not even used in actual combat.

All the remaining Hueys in the AFP arsenal were grounded after the incident.

And the idea of AFP modernization of buying second hand ancient Hueys is pure crap.

And yet another batch of Hueys will be bought for the "modernization" of AFP.

We never learned.

Oh really? Can you provide us a link to your news reference? Otherwise, it will be another hearsay from you...

greenice

September 15th, 2010, 04:29 AM

COMMENTS KO LANG PO ITO SA MANILA HOSTAGE BUS CRISIS - NO PERSONAL INTENTION PO... Fill in the Blanks...

Ang Pamumuno ni _____________sa nakaraang HOstage Crisis ay isa sa mga Palpak na ginawa nya kaya HUWAG na sya UMASA PA na mananalo ulit sa SUSUNOD na ELEKSYON. BAKETTTT???

!.) Wala siyang Talino at Logic
2.) Bara Bara Style Nya
3.) Walang Plano at di uubra style sa ganung situation
4.) Pinersonal nya ung pulis na nag hostage
5) In short Kulang knowledge nya. Wala pong personalan ito ha...

COMMENTS KO LANG PO ITO SA MANILA HOSTAGE BUS CRISIS - NO PERSONAL INTENTION PO... Fill in the Blanks...

Ang Pamumuno ni ____MAYOR LIM?_________sa nakaraang HOstage Crisis ay isa sa mga Palpak na ginawa nya kaya HUWAG na sya UMASA PA na mananalo ulit sa SUSUNOD na ELEKSYON. BAKETTTT???

!.) Wala siyang Talino at Logic
2.) Bara Bara Style Nya
3.) Walang Plano at di uubra style sa ganung situation
4.) Pinersonal nya ung pulis na nag hostage
5) In short Kulang knowledge nya. Wala pong personalan ito ha...

RonnieR

September 15th, 2010, 05:06 AM

Peace for Bangsamoro achievable – PCID

Wednesday, 15 September 2010 00:00

by Julmunir I. Jannaral Correspondent

COTABATO City: The Philippine Center for Islam and Democracy (PCID), one of the credible Muslim civil societies in the country announced on Tuesday that they are optimistic that the elusive peace for the Bangsamoro people in Muslim Mindanao will now be achieved with the return of the majority of the peace panel of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) to the negotiating table.
Amina Rasul, PCID lead convenor told The Manila Times in a phone interview that they welcome the return to the negotiating panel of Mohagher Iqbal, as chairman; lawyer Datu Michael Mastura, Dr. Maulana “Bobby” Alonto and Hadji Abdullah “Al” Camlian as members.

Also, a new member who is from the academe is professor Abhoud Syed Lingga, chairman of the Cotabato City-based Institute of Bangsamoro Studies was also added to the MILF peace panel.

“We, at the PCID, are hopeful that the choice of Mr. Camlian who is a native of Basilan will provide representation for Muslims living the island provinces of Muslim Mindanao,” Rasul emphasized.

“We are likewise pleased with the inclusion to the peace panel of Professor Lingga, whose intellectual capability and probity should be of big help to the negotiations,” the PCID lead convenor added.

Rasul also said that the collective wealth of experience in political negotiation and the shared passion for the aspirations of the Bangsamoro of the MILF peace panel will be important as the peace process enters a new phase.

On Monday, MILF has announ-ced the constitution of its peace panel headed by Iqbal, who was also the chairman of the previous panel that negotiated on the controversial memorandum of agreement on ancestral domain (MOA-AD), which the Supreme Court ruled as unconstitutional.

The government had earlier stated that it is prepared to talk peace with the completion of its peace panel headed by University of the Philippines College of Law Dean Marvic Leonen.

Positive developments

The PCID welcomes these positive developments in the government-MILF peace process. After the MOA-AD debacle as well as the uncertainty with the Aquino administration’s peace approach, the formation of the two negotiating panels represents a constructive direction towards the attainment of lasting peace, the PCID civil society also said.

As this developed, Rasul also told The Times that they are hoping that the peace negotiations under the new government will build upon the goodwill and successes of previous negotiations as well as learn from the lessons of the MOA-AD controversy.

She said her group in the PCID was also encouraged by the announcement of President Benigno Aquino 3rd on the formation of an advisory body to be “composed of members from both Houses of Congress, retired justices of the Supreme Court, members of the 1987 Constitutional Commission, local governments in strife-affected areas, non government organizations and the former chairpersons of previous peace panels.”

Rasul said the formation of advisory body by the government would hopefully ensure that the peace process would be inclusive and participatory.

She noted that the inclusion of members of Congress, for instance, solves a problem in the past where an agreement that was signed by both panels is derailed in Congress.

In the analysis of the PCID on the 1996 Final Peace Agreement signed by the government and the Moro National Liberation Front, they noted how a party—the legislature—crucial to the implementation of the terms of the peace agreement was largely absent in the negotiation phase.

The PCID as a Muslim civil society also urged the government to treat the peace negotiations not as an occasion to simply manage the conflict but as an opportunity to address the root causes of the conflict that hopefully will lead to sustainable and just peace.
“We also urge both sides to seriously consider putting in place an effective social communications strategy that would help the peace process in terms of seeking public support for the peace agreement to be forged,” Rasul said.

Finally, the PCID appealed to everyone—especially government officials and politicians—to exercise circumspection when issuing statements relative to the peace process.

“Irresponsible statements bordering on grandstanding and fear mongering can become distractions to the peace process,” Rasul also said.
http://www.manilatimes.net/index.php/news/regions/25892-peace-for-bangsamoro-achievable--pcid