Defense spokesman warns Chinese against using ‘hard power’ (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/35161/defense-spokesman-warns-chinese-against-using-%E2%80%98hard-power%E2%80%99)

MANILA, Philippines—Nobody wins with hard power, the Department of National Defense said Saturday in a warning directed at hardliners in the Chinese military reportedly pressing for decisive action to strengthen Beijing’s claims to the Panatag Shoal.

“Of course there are hardliners who wish to use hard power, but let us not forget history, that the use of hard power has never resulted in favorable consequences,” defense department spokesperson Peter Paul Galvez said.

“Nobody wins in that course of action,” he added in text messages.

Galvez said “soft power”, or the political and diplomatic approach, should not be underestimated, as opposed to “hard power”, or the use of military force.

“Further, let us not forget the majority who continue to understand the value of soft power, the politico-diplomatic approach. Our counterparts are fully aware of this as well,” he said.

On Friday, a Chinese army general described as a hardliner for having hawkish views, said in a commentary on a state-owned website that China’s “peaceful rise” should not be construed as abandoning the option of military action.

“Peaceful rise and ‘period of strategic opportunity’ preclude war,” People’s Liberation Army Major General Luo Yuan was quoted as saying in news reports.

Galvez expressed optimism that the 18-day impasse with China over the Panatag Shoal would be ironed out peacefully in spite of the presence of more Chinese vessels in the disputed waters.

He pointed out that both the Chinese and Philippine ships in that part of the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) off Zambales province were civilian vessels.

A Philippine Coast Guard ship and a vessel from the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources are facing off with at least two Chinese maritime surveillance ships and some seven fishing boats on the shoal, known internationally as Scarborough Shoal.

“We continue to maintain our peaceful initiatives towards a diplomatic resolution re the impasse. All our actions will be towards this end,” he said.

“We must understand that our relationship with our neighbors manifest in several important facets and this impasse is just one that needs ironing out. We continue to be optimistic of the diplomatic initiatives by our DFA (Department of Foreign Affairs),” Galvez said.

On Friday, at the closing of the Philippines’ joint Balikatan exercises with the United States, Armed Forces Chief of Staff Jessie Dellosa pushed for the use of “smart power” in the country’s dealings with its neighbors and in defense of its territories.

“Today’s emerging challenges, in the context of the dynamics in Southeast Asia and the Asia-Pacific region, require pragmatism and the use of smart power,” the AFP chief said in an apparent allusion to the country’s tense relations with China.

“It is apparent that a practical blend of the concepts of ‘might is right’ and ‘right is might’ should be explored, shared among friends and allies, and eventually put to good use,” he said.

This has a funny title :lol:

Beijing Makes Manila Miss its U.S. Bases (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304451104577391790438716280.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)


The title is so damn true right now...:lol::lol:

The title is so damn true right now...:lol::lol:

Pakipot pa yung mga ibang senador lalo na si Enrile :lol::lol::lol:

:guns1: Though I am not a fan of the Occupy movement, this is cool! :guns1:

I8fi7l8FD3A

All the 12 magnificent senators have been super duper silent right now! Not one single magnificent senator has ever spoken against Chinese occupation in PHL territory!

Insightful post from Tsukiyomi at PDFF

I look back to when the Taiwanese had their first democratic presidential elections in 1996. The Chinese were very worried about the message that would send their own captive citizens. They were worried that it was possible that a person of Chinese ancestry could actually vote for a political figure.

They threatened the Taiwanese for some time with military force. It was not until the Americans responded with a clear projection of naval power into the region that the Chicom gutter trash turned tail and backed down like the good little doggies they are.

We are in a situation that something similar will need to take place or the Chinese will continue doing what they are doing. They are hoping that no one has the balls to do anything (that does not automatically translate to gunfire). They are hoping they can drag this mess out, continue to build structures, steal resources, transit fleets and show the flag until the next generation of spineless turd burglars sets up shop in the UN and rules in favor of the thugs.

The longer our leadership makes excuses and drags its feet instead of physically asserting our sovereignty over our territory, the more difficult this will be. Again, this does not automatically mean we have to get into a gun battle but we need to at least make a real attempt at boarding those ships, arresting the criminals, cataloging and documenting their crimes against the Filipino people and against the environment and locking down those illegal ships.

If this means China attacks us then so be it. No one can ever say we are cowards and the loss of life (god forbid) will only bolster our claim to our territory. The global community will rally and support us. Sadly they need a "poster child" to rally around and we are that "child". There is a lot of pent up frustration with the Chinese and this will give many governments the chance to jump on board.


http://pdff.sytes.net/index.php?showtopic=9453&view=findpost&p=22005970

"All the 12 magnificent senators have been super duper silent right now! Not one single magnificent senator has ever spoken against Chinese occupation in PHL territory!"

We elected those 12 paladins. As the Germans also elected Hitler. :ohno:

Pills made from powdered fetus seized in S. Korea
05/09/2012 2:48 AM

Nasabat ng airport customs sa South Korea ang ilang libong gamot na capsules na iligal umanong ipinapasok galing sa China. Pero ang higit na nakakagulat, gawa umano sa pinulbos na fetus ang mga gamot. Magba-Bandila, Sol Aragones. Bandila, Mayo 8, 2012, Martes


http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/lifestyle/05/08/12/pills-made-powdered-fetus-seized-s-korea


I believe Cory was FOR the bases. Did she even try to VETO the non-renewal?

kaya lang naman matapang ang china dahil na rin sa walang gamit ang AFP kahit un sisasabi nilang minimum capabilities... kung makakabili lang sana tayo ng mga long range missiles at mga malalaki at full battle gear na mga barko matatakot na yan kahit papaano, mahirap kasi mgarap ng fighter jet dahil na rin sa mahal ng maintenance...

A good military ties with India can help us deter China. May missile din ang India :D

The Scarborough Shoal Standoff Has Not Been About Oil (http://prudentinvestornewsletters.blogspot.com/2012/04/scarborough-shoal-standoff-has-not-been.html)

Despite the blaring headlines, the domestic equity market seems to have discounted the supposed impasse between China and the Philippines over the disputed Scarborough Shoal.

I think the market response over risks of a military confrontation of war seems justified.

Media’s report of the territorial contest between the Philippines and China has been rife with insinuations that the motivations of the kerfuffle has been about “ rich in oil and gas reserves as well as fish stocks and other commercially attractive marine life”[1].

Yet current developments have not been supportive of such oversimplified implications.

China as Major Beneficiary of the Shale Oil Revolution

First of all, the growth of China’s crude oil imports has been falling.

clip_image001

That’s because China’s slackening demand for crude oil has been substituted for soaring demand of cheaper natural gas. China’s natural gas imports are expected to balloon by 45% in 2012[2].

Next, media entirely overlooks the ongoing Shale gas boom where advancements in technology principally through hydraulic fracking and horizontal drilling—complimented by computer programs which simulates well development before drilling (which controls costs), advance fiber optics and even use of microphones to measure seismic events[3]—has enabled access to immense commercial quantities of shale based natural gas.

The shale gas revolution has not just been transforming the energy sector, but changes have been diffusing into a vast area of the global economy.

Author Matt Ridley explains[4],

Chemical companies, which use gas as a feedstock, are rushing back from the Persian Gulf to the Gulf of Mexico. Cities are converting their bus fleets to gas. Coal projects are being shelved; nuclear ones abandoned.

The shale gas revolution has become a key factor in bringing back many energy intensive manufacturing companies to the US such as steel, chemical and fertilizer companies[5].

So contrary to the claims of mercantilists, who blindly and wrongly sees protectionism through inflation or devaluation as means to regain competitiveness, access to abundant and cheap energy can be one avenue towards attaining competitive and comparative advantages.

clip_image003

Yet a deepening of the Shale gas revolution would benefit China too, since China has the largest technically recoverable resources of shale gas[6] in the world.

As proof the intensifying trend towards Shale gas revolution, just recently, French Total SA[7] and British Royal Dutch Shell PLC[8] have just forged deals to explore, develop and produce shale oil in China. There will be massive investment flows to develop Shale not only in China but around the world.

clip_image004

Mostly because of Shale, Natural gas around the world is expected to boom and has the biggest potential to replace crude oil.

In China, production of natural gas via shale, coal bed methane and tight gas are expected to explode[9]. This would mirror on the skyrocketing demand for natural gas[10].

With China’s shale oil boom having yet to ignite, it would seem a paradox for China to politically squabble over relatively meager oil and gas field as compared to the immense domestic reserves that has yet to be tapped. Besides China can do more by investing in other countries than trigger a shooting war.

Political Smoke and Mirrors over Scarborough Shoals and Spratlys

In addition, China’s political economy has now been highly dependent on international trade.

clip_image006

Merchandise trade (sum of imports and exports) is now about half of China’s economy. This means that since China has deeply been embedded to globalization, any military conflict or a war would be self-destructive not only to the average Chinese but to the China’s incumbent political institutions and leaders, as well.

Moreover, given that most of ASEAN nations has been “closely linked[11]” to the US, any military clash may be a magnet for the involvement of the US militarily.

And conventional warfare will be dissimilar from the way wars has been fought in the 20th century, given the proliferation of nuclear armaments. Future wars will likely be more about technology based engagements (computer, robotic, biotech and nanotech along with nuclear and special ops[12]) than conventional warfare or guerrilla or terror tactics. Yet China has yet to reach such state of sophistication

And as I have mentioned in the past[13], the gunboat diplomacy would work against China’s attempt to establish the use her currency the yuan as the region’s currency reserve[14].

And given the above, China’s antagonistic foreign policy approach over the disputed islands hardly seems about the securing more “oil and gas reserves”, and seems patently contradictory to her overall interests.

This brings us again to the following postulates.

clip_image008

China has been buying less of US treasuries[15] or financing less the US. China has also been taking flaks from US politicians whom have used “blame China” (as well as “blame the rich”) to advance their political platforms in the coming elections.

And perhaps one way to placate US politicians has been for China to act as a complicit bogeyman in order to promote US arms sales to Asia. More arms sales could translate to more donations by US defense industry to candidates of both parties in the coming elections.

clip_image009

Notes the opensecret.org[16]

Although the defense sector contributes far less money to politicians than many other sectors, it is one of the most powerful in politics. The sector includes defense aerospace, defense electronics and other miscellaneous defense companies.

I have been repeatedly pointing out such a possibility[17].

Also another possible angle would be to use current territorial disputes as diversion to current internal political struggles in China. Last Thursday most websites in China became inaccessible[18]. Was the widespread internet blackout a result of Indonesia’s quake? Or has this been related to recently rumored coup attempt[19]? Appeal to nationalism via military conflicts or nationalism based controversies are frequently used by politicians as decoy or diversion to real (social, economic or political) problems.

China could also be testing the strength of ASEAN ties to the US, to ascertain or measure as to what extent growing trade relations have brought Chinese influence into the region’s politics.

Bottom line: Unless China political leaders have lost their minds, I find the unfortunate Scarborough Shoal affair (as well as Spratly’s incidents) as suspiciously more about political ‘smoke and mirrors’ maneuvering and more vaudeville than an issue about territorial claims.

What boggles me until now is this question of facts:

PHL navy arrived at Panatag at 7 AM. They inspected the boats of these Chinese criminals. No arrests had been made RIGHT AWAY, until at 4 PM the Chinese thugs arrived. There is a span of 9 HOURS and they waited until the standoff began. Who ordered not to arrest these criminals? They could have arrested ALL of them and left right away with the Chinese criminals in detention. I simply want answers why it took them too long to make arrests!

What boggles me until now is this question of facts:

PHL navy arrived at Panatag at 7 AM. They inspected the boats of these Chinese criminals. No arrests had been made RIGHT AWAY, until at 4 PM the Chinese thugs arrived. There is a span of 9 HOURS and they waited until the standoff began. Who ordered not to arrest these criminals? They could have arrested ALL of them and left right away with the Chinese criminals in detention. I simply want answers why it took them too long to make arrests!

Who ordered not to arrest those criminals?

Of course it is either DFA or The Palace. In previous years many Chinese poachers from PRC was arrested in Palawan, Tubbataha Reefs, etc. but always they were released through the order of the omnipotent Chinese Ambassador in Manila via DFA or the Palace.

Para kayong bago ng bago.

I think China's Vice Foreign Minister F U needs to pair with their Defense Minister GuangLIE. They both live up to their names for China's greedy interests.

What boggles me until now is this question of facts:

PHL navy arrived at Panatag at 7 AM. They inspected the boats of these Chinese criminals. No arrests had been made RIGHT AWAY, until at 4 PM the Chinese thugs arrived. There is a span of 9 HOURS and they waited until the standoff began. Who ordered not to arrest these criminals? They could have arrested ALL of them and left right away with the Chinese criminals in detention. I simply want answers why it took them too long to make arrests!

Another question, why the Navy, why did they not call the coast guard instead? Did they compromise something?

Hopefully someone can shed something here.

(puede rin kaya na gustong gumawa ng scene ang DFA para makafile tayo sa ITLOS? Hehehehe)

Nakita ko sa net... ngayon, ano ang napala sa "zero budget sa militarisasyon"? Wala na ngang budget :lol:

http://multiply.com/mu/rakshari/image/32/photos/20/600x600/1/anakbayan2.jpg?et=CcOSp4z5wi5o3JhiLO30Mw&nmid=111978577

Their fishermen are not "mere fishermen"

32 vs 2

Get the media there now to have live coverage. Banca and helikopter coverage!

32 Chinese ships in shoal, bar Pinoy fishers (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/36035/32-chinese-ships-in-shoal-bar-pinoy-fishers)

Chinese maritime ships are denying Filipino fishermen access to their traditional fishing grounds in the lagoon of Panatag Shoal, a chain of reefs and rocks off Zambales province whose ownership is being disputed by China and the Philippines even as Chinese vessels were seen continuing to mass in Panatag, also known as Bajo de Masinloc and its international name, Scarborough Shoal—which China claims to own even if the shoal is 472 nautical miles from the nearest Chinese coast.

According to the local government of Masinloc, which is only 124 nautical miles from Panatag, the town’s fishermen have reported that Chinese government vessels had blocked their entry to the lagoon.

The military reported that the number of Chinese vessels in the Panatag Shoal has increased to 33, from 14 last week.

The Philippines has only two vessels in the area. These are the BRP Edsa II, a Coast Guard search-and-rescue vessel (SARV 002) and the MCS 3001, a vessel belonging to the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources.

China currently has three big ships in the area. These are the Chinese Fisheries Law Enforcement Command (FLEC) 310 which is said to be its most powerful maritime ship, and the Chinese Maritime Surveillance (CMS) ships 75 and 81.

According to the military’s Northern Luzon Command (Nolcom), seven other Chinese fishing vessels and 23 utility boats have been seen inside the lagoon.

RJ Bautista, secretary to Masinloc Mayor Desiree Edora, said the Chinese maritime ships were preventing Filipino fishermen from fishing in the lagoon.

Rich fishing grounds

The vast lagoon constitutes rich fishing grounds for Filipino fishermen who before the stand-off with China usually stayed to fish in the area for days.

“They are still prevented from going in (the lagoon). They can fish outside. But they are barred inside,” Bautista told defense reporters in a phone interview.

“We were told they were prevented by the (Chinese) Navy or Coast Guard. Our fishermen are okay with Chinese fishermen. The problem is they have gunboats there,” he said.

Bautista said the Chinese ships were positioned at the entrance to the lagoon.

“Those who want to go in are shooed away. Since they cannot understand each other, our fishermen are afraid,” he said, adding that the Chinese ships would train powerful floodlights on Filipino fishing boats.

Bautista said the fishermen were only recently allowed to return to the shoal, which the locals refer to as Karburo (after the international name Scarborough Shoal) since the stand-off began last April 10.

“That’s why their catch is not as much, unlike before,” he said.

Coast Guard helpless

The Coast Guard ship is reportedly aware of the fishermen’s plight but was not of any help.

“I think our Coast Guard was also barred from going near (the lagoon),” Bautista said, relaying reports from fishermen.

“Our fishermen are simply told not to be afraid. But at the same time they are told not to provoke so there won’t be any confrontation,” he said.

Nolcom spokesperson Capt. Aurelio Kigis said they have no information that Filipino fishermen were being barred from the lagoon, and could not comment.

War of words so far

The Panatag Shoal incident started last April 8 when the Philippine Navy on a routine sovereignty patrol spotted eight Chinese fishing vessels moored inside the shoal. Navy personnel boarded the vessels and discovered on board illegally obtained endangered turtles, baby sharks, giant clams and a large amount of corals.

The Navy dispatched its only warship, the BRP Gregorio del Pilar, to the area on April 10 but before the ship could tow the poachers to the nearest police station, two Chinese maritime ships arrived and blocked their arrest.

The stand-off at Panatag has so far been accompanied only by a war of words.

The Philippines maintains that Bajo de Masinloc, described as a ring-shaped coral reef, which has several rocks encircling a lagoon in the West Philippine Sea, is about 124 nautical mile (220 km) from the nearest coast of Luzon and well within the Philippines’ 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone (EEZ) and continental shelf under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos).

It said the shoal is an integral part of Philippine territory, a part of the municipality of Masinloc, Zambales. It said the shoal is also not part of the Spratlys, the chain of islets and atolls to its south that is claimed in whole or in part by China, Taiwan, Brunei, Malaysia, Vietnam and the Philippines.

The government said the actions of the Chinese fishing vessels were a serious violation of the Philippine sovereignty and maritime jurisdiction. The poaching of endangered marine resources violoated the Fisheries Code and the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Flora and Fauna (CITES), it said.

Relative ships’ positions

The Nolcom said that as of Sunday, May 6, the BRP Edsa II was 7.1 nautical miles southeast off Panatag Shoal.

The Coast Guard vessel has moved farther by 5.7 nautical miles southeast from its previous position last week which was 1.4 nautical miles northeast off South Rock, a rock feature of Panatag Shoal.

The MCS 3001 is 1.6 nautical miles northeast off South Rock.

Meanwhile, the Chinese CMS 75 is 3.5 nautical miles southeast off North Rock, another Panatag rock feature, and a distance of 8.1 nautical miles northeast from BRP Edsa II.

The CMS 81 is 1.04 nautical miles southeast off North Rock and a distance of 8.1 nautical miles northeast from BRP Edsa II.

The FLEC 310 is 8.4 nautical miles southeast off North Rock and a distance of 7.5 nautical miles from BRP Edsa II.

2nd cutter for Navy

Vice Adm. Alexander Pama, Philippine Navy Flag Officer in Command, said a second US Coast Guard cutter that the Navy has acquired, will be arriving in the country in November.

The Hamilton-class cutter will be officially turned over to the Navy on May 23, following which the training of Filipino crew and adjustments to the vessel will follow, Pama said.

He said the government will be spending about the same amount it spent for the first US Coast Guard cutter that it acquired, which has been renamed the BRP Gregorio del Pilar.

Pama said last year that P400 million was spent for the training and refurbishment of the BRP Gregorio del Pilar.

Kabastusan na talaga ng mga instik ito

Bakit ang tagal naman nila mag-file? Eh magiisang buwan na nagnonoynoying ang CG natin dun :lol:

Unclos is way to go to settle Spratlys dispute, says DFA chief (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/36045/unclos-is-way-to-go-to-settle-spratlys-dispute-says-dfa-chief)

MANILA, Philippines – Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario has asserted anew that abiding by the rules set by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (Unclos) is the legitimate way of resolving conflicting and overlapping claims in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

Del Rosario reiterated this Tuesday during a conference at Montego Bay, Jamaica, to mark the 30th anniversary of the signing of the Unclos by 159 UN member-states, including the Philippines.

On May 8, 1984, the country became the 11th state to ratify the international agreement, which entered into force on Nov. 16, 1994.

In a statement, Del Rosario said Unclos “has never been more important to the Philippines than today when overlapping maritime claims threaten as never before the peace and prosperity in our part of the world.”

“The Philippines believes that the rules-based approach in Unclos, together with the norms in the UN Charter and international law, are the way forward in addressing in a just, peaceful and lasting manner the maritime disputes in the West Philippine Sea,” he added.

The DFA chief noted that Unclos is the “international law governing the rights and responsibilities of nations—big, as well as small, rich or poor, coastal and landlocked—in their use of the world’s oceans.”

“It enshrines the norms that determine the rights of states over maritime areas and contains important mechanisms for the peaceful settlement of disputes on matters relating to the oceans,” he emphasized.

According to Del Rosario, “together with our commemoration of the 30th anniversary of Unclos this year, we are also commemorating this year the 30th anniversary of the UN Manila Declaration on the Peaceful Settlement of International Disputes, which was adopted by the UN General Assembly in 1982.”

“This is another historic and important document, particularly at this time when the Philippines is exerting every effort to address and resolve conflicting claims in the West Philippine Sea,” he added.

For over four weeks now, Manila and Beijing have been engaged in a standoff over the Scarborough Shoal, located some 220 kilometers west of Zambales province.

The Philippines calls the shoal Bajo de Masinloc and Panatag Shoal while China refers to the rock formation as Huangyan Island.

Del Rosario pointed out that Chinese ships were “currently engaged in illegal activities in Bajo de Masinloc.”

Just continue the war of words.

Let the stand off drag for many days, months or even years.

Until we can find a solution-- hopefully through peaceful means.

At the same time, continue the military build up of the Philippines.

As suggested by a forumer, go into buying missile defense system and yes, long range missile system.

Fighter planes have no use in this battle. If indeed we can buy a few, still not enough to at least equal China's huge arsenal of weapons. But a long range missile that can easily reach any target including the mainland China can be a possible deterrent.

http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/x/globalnation.inquirer.net/www.inquirer.net/videos/images/570x8000xscarborough-shoal-history-timeline-infographics.jpg.pagespeed.ic.8kv2zn3tgA.jpg

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/36003/scarborough-shoal-standoff-a-historicaltimeline

The best thing to do is occupy Chinese Embassy grounds until the Chinese occupiers leave Panatag!

#OccupyChineseEmbassy

:lol:

^^Even wooden bancas will do as part of a fast attack craft. I still remember how a fast a banca run when powered by a properly tuned 4K Toyota engine.
Haha yep, nakasakay na ako sa ganyan. Arangkada to the max un driver...natakot ako sa bilis. :crazy:

Ilang tao ang kaya nyan?

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/lifestyle/05/08/12/pills-made-powdered-fetus-seized-s-korea


I believe Cory was FOR the bases. Did she even try to VETO the non-renewal?

During the kudetas in her term, she asked the US president's help and the US bases send in fighter jets to cover the Philippine skies against rebel aircraft. They implemented a no fly zone over Metro Manila.

A good military ties with India can help us deter China. May missile din ang India :D

We also have missiles! :cheers:

US to turn over USS Dallas later this month

The Philippine government is set to receive before the end of this month a second Hamilton-class cutter it has acquired from the United States, the Philippine Navy said yesterday.

Vice Admiral Alexander Pama, Navy chief, said that USS Dallas, a decommissioned US Coast Guard cutter, would be turned over to the Philippine government either on May 22 or May 23.

He said that the cutter would first undergo major repairs in the US before sailing home in November for a scheduled commissioning by the end of this year.

Among the major repairs needed is the replacement of the vessel’s fourth main engine.

Pama said that the cost of repairs and transfer of the Dallas to the country is almost the same as that of the BRP Gregorio del Pilar.

He added: “We have to train our men there for them to be able to bring home our second Hamilton-class cutter.”

Last year, the Philippines acquired the Gregorio del Pilar, also a decommissioned US Coast Guard all weather endurance cutter, in line with ongoing efforts to build a credible territorial defense.

Now the Navy’s flagship, the Gregorio del Pilar figured last month in a standoff with Chinese maritime vessels in Panatag Shoal but was pulled out to de-escalate the conflict.

Pama is hoping that the US government will not remove the already installed equipment from the Dallas, which Washington did to the Del Pilar.

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=805031&publicationSubCategoryId=63

yan nga yun sinasabi ko na parang Philippines ang magulang at ang anak natin ay yun Scarborough shoal at yun China rapist, ang masakit dito sa harap ng magulang nirerape ang anak but wait theres more ang pinaka masakit dito yun magulang walang ginagawa at pinapanood lang na babuyin yun kanyang anak...

baka kaya ayaw palapitin nung mga chinese boats yun mga filipino boat sa loob ng shoal eh palihim ng tinatayuaan ng outpost/bunker yun mismong scarborough??? katulad ng nangyari dati pinalabas ng china dun sa mischief reef... In 1994, the PRC built initial structures on stilts here while the Philippine Navy was not patrolling the area due to a monsoon season. Since the reef is just 130 miles (209 km) away from Palawan, well inside the Philippines' EEZ, the Philippines immediately protested this action. However, China rejected the protest and stressed that the structures were shelter for fishermen. In 1999, another wave of protests from Manila occurred when China added more structures to Mischief Reef which resembled military installations more closely than shelters for fishermen.[

matuto na sana yun mga lecheng Trapo sa gobyerno, ang tagal na nila nandyan sa pwesto ndi pa nila kabisado yun mga nangyayari...

I wonder what's the impact of these meeting for us when China is trying to ally with the US too... hmmm


Chinese General Downplays China’s Role in Cyber Attacks
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-05-07/chinese-general-downplays-china-s-role-in-cyber-attacks

The U.S. and Chinese militaries should work as equals and avoid the “stereotype” of being confrontational superpowers, Chinese General Liang Guanglie said on his first visit to Washington as defense minister.

Speaking to reporters yesterday following talks with Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, Liang disputed a question about China’s responsibility for cyber attacks against the U.S. and said the two sides discussed ways to “build a new state-to- state relationship that’s not a stereotype of two major powers predestined for conflict.”

Liang’s call to be treated as an equal reflects China’s growing desire, backed by its $5.9 trillion economy, to be considered a power on par with the U.S. It comes as the U.S. is shifting its military posture to the Asia-Pacific area, reflecting concerns by the U.S. and nations in the region about China’s expanding reach and competition for resources such as oil and gas in the South China Sea.

“I proposed that the two militaries build a new relationship based on equality, mutual benefit and cooperation,” said Liang.

China’s emphasis on equality is in line with its previous “win-win formulations” intended to show that its economic and military rise is not intended to diminish U.S. power, said Patrick Cronin, an Asia specialist at the Center for New American Security, a policy center in Washington. Still, “China wants to be treated like a superpower but does not yet want responsibilities of one,” he said.

Oil and Gas

China has several disagreements with Vietnam, the Philippines and Japan over control of oil- and gas-rich waters and has a lingering territorial dispute with India that erupted into a war in 1962. It also seeks control of Taiwan, which it regards as a renegade province.

Liang said his visit to the U.S. despite recent incidents shows that there’s a “turnover in U.S.-China military” relations.

more (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-05-07/chinese-general-downplays-china-s-role-in-cyber-attacks)

BREAKING NEWS, ACCORDING TO SOME IN BEIJING, WE ARE PART OF CHINA (Renegade province? :lol:)

http://mobile.shanghaiist.com/2012/05/08/watch_cctv_anchor_declares_the_phil.php

Ilang tao ang kaya nyan?



During the kudetas in her term, she asked the US president's help and the US bases send in fighter jets to cover the Philippine skies against rebel aircraft. They implemented a no fly zone over Metro Manila.



We also have missiles! :cheers:

From what I remember, she proposed a national referendum as a last ditch attempt to save the bases. It was rejected by the Senate for being "unconstitutional". I am going to try and find a link.

Chinese newsreader: The Philippines an inherent part of China's sovereign territory

KiudNjxTdg4

mga gunggong talaga itong mga ito!

^^ Subukan lang nila.

:lol::lol::lol:

A big mistake indeed.
That's not an intentional error, I believe. Even If it is, all their facade before the US will fall apart faster than you can say "Piso".
MDT actually considers recognised Philippine territory which are our main islands, no?

:lol:Obobs talaga.

Nakita ko sa net... ngayon, ano ang napala sa "zero budget sa militarisasyon"? Wala na ngang budget :lol:

http://multiply.com/mu/rakshari/image/32/photos/20/600x600/1/anakbayan2.jpg?et=CcOSp4z5wi5o3JhiLO30Mw&nmid=111978577Can a leopard change its spots? You tell me.

That has been the battlecry and political mantra of the Left of whatever shade since the 90s, or even before that. After the Bases were booted out, it would have been logical to offset it by increasing the budget for the Phil. military for national defence. I remember they the Left used to say scoffingly and haughtily, bakit wala namang kaaway ang Pinas sa Asia a? O ano ngayon mga peste kayo at tunay na salot ng bayan? Mga ubod ng kasinungalingan pa dahil doble cara.

Ano maririnig galing sa Left? A never ending putak ng putak at palaliman sa Pananagalog and posturing as if they were the repository of all Knowledge. Ang ingay ingay kulang na lang gustong i-abolish ang military. Of course using their brand of pysch war, those who are feeble minded would be easily swayed. Andaming generations of Pinoy na naloko sa mga Chinese spies and agents na to.

Now after the wasted years since 1991, WHAT HAVE YOU FROM THE LEFT TO SHOW FOR NOW? A near victory with an emaciated military and the weakest in SE Asia. At akala nila they can redeem themselves by what they do best. Rally rally, demonstrate demonstrate like the uneducated boorish thugs and peasants that they are. CITE to me any foreign nation in the whole wide world since the United Nations was born after World War II that had buckled under the pressure of rowdy and noisy demonstrations in front of many embassies and the usual flag burnings. Coz the answer is NONE.

What could have been more effective was a reinvigorated military pero NO, ayaw ng mga sinungaling sa simula't sapul pa kaya hayan. That is the handiwork of the LEFT and to all those feeble minded pinoys who fell for those lines, shame shame shame.

BREAKING NEWS, ACCORDING TO SOME IN BEIJING, WE ARE PART OF CHINA (Renegade province? :lol:)

http://mobile.shanghaiist.com/2012/05/08/watch_cctv_anchor_declares_the_phil.phpRenegade indeed. I am a son of the soil, an Austronesian and am not Han. Merdeka!
Chinese newsreader: The Philippines an inherent part of China's sovereign territory

KiudNjxTdg4

mga gunggong talaga itong mga ito!
The ancient maps say so. Kaya I told you they have Chinese names for Luzon and Palawan. In that extreme case, we from the Sri Visayas will seek help and join in a federation with either the USA or our mother culture - India. :jk:

Yan ang napala ng generations of Pinoys who like being Juan Tamad at nagpadala sa Leftist propaganda by emaciating the military. China will pounce on those around who are perceived as weak. Unfortunately, they are already eyeing us as their next Tibet.

From what I remember, she proposed a national referendum as a last ditch attempt to save the bases. It was rejected by the Senate for being "unconstitutional". I am going to try and find a link.

Okay. It looks like she buckled under the Leftist's pressure
Manila Standard, 1988
Cory denies eyeing bases' referendum: Critic's chorus it's unconstitutional.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1370&dat=19880804&id=z2YVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aQsEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5579,311581

I just read 32 fishing boats are now at the shoal and are preventing local fishermen from fishing. What is our govt doing about this? They seem to be doing nothing at all. This is just a test case for future incursions not only by the chinese but by other countries. By doing nothing makes us look like weaklings. Whats going to prevent other countries from claiming mindanao or visayas or the entire luzon islands? Govt must act, if we dont have the hardware to fight and at least make lots of noises in the international media. Document whats happening at the shoal like the wanton destruction of the corals and the depletion of marine resources. Post them on social media. Report them on cnn or aljazerra. We cannot have this go on forever.

sometimes I worry that the world is not hearing us.... CNN and BBC is not even focusing on this... hmmmm

I just read 32 fishing boats are now at the shoal and are preventing local fishermen from fishing. What is our govt doing about this? They seem to be doing nothing at all. This is just a test case for future incursions not only by the chinese but by other countries. By doing nothing makes us look like weaklings. Whats going to prevent other countries from claiming mindanao or visayas or the entire luzon islands? Govt must act, if we dont have the hardware to fight and at least make lots of noises in the international media. Document whats happening at the shoal like the wanton destruction of the corals and the depletion of marine resources. Post them on social media. Report them on cnn or aljazerra. We cannot have this go on forever.

That's how far 20 years of doing nothing goes for ya. Yan ang resulta ng AFP modernization natin. Magaling talaga.

sometimes I worry that the world is not hearing us.... CNN and BBC is not even focusing on this... hmmmm

They will only focus on it pag nagkaputukan na.

wag na umasa ang pilipinas for international support, on this modern world wala ng bansa ang may gusto makisaw saw, see the position of US they choose to be neutral and therefore malakas ang hatak ng US so other nation will just issue statement that they condemned China but thats it, wala ng iba...

so yun we are definitely on our own, MDT sucks, in my opinion there will be no US soldier na makikidigma on our side, but MDT will just be a tool to acquire more war items and a quick training by them and thats it... ndi maganda ang political climate dito sa US dahil election season nanaman and walang boboto sa kanila kung ang policy nila is be on war again... I hope China will have mercy on our 2 ships on Panatag shoal, lets pray ndi maulit yun vietnam massacre sa paracel island dati...

They will only focus on it pag nagkaputukan na.

Mga pinoy kasi kung kelan kailangan umEpal, di umeepal :lol:

Isang Chinese province daw ang pinas dati:nuts:

ang magiging name ko siguro pag naging Chinese province tayo ay, Wang Ni, at yung kapitbahay kung matanda, Malu Wang:lol:

China is planning to expand the Binondo China Town... brace for an invasion!

Isang Chinese province daw ang pinas dati:nuts:

ang magiging name ko siguro pag naging Chinese province tayo ay, Wang Ni, at yung kapitbahay kung matanda, Malu Wang:lol:

Korny mo g*g*! :bash:

wag na umasa ang pilipinas for international support, on this modern world wala ng bansa ang may gusto makisaw saw, see the position of US they choose to be neutral and therefore malakas ang hatak ng US so other nation will just issue statement that they condemned China but thats it, wala ng iba...

so yun we are definitely on our own, MDT sucks, in my opinion there will be no US soldier na makikidigma on our side, but MDT will just be a tool to acquire more war items and a quick training by them and thats it... ndi maganda ang political climate dito sa US dahil election season nanaman and walang boboto sa kanila kung ang policy nila is be on war again... I hope China will have mercy on our 2 ships on Panatag shoal, lets pray ndi maulit yun vietnam massacre sa paracel island dati...

True.

Isang Chinese province daw ang pinas dati:nuts:

ang magiging name ko siguro pag naging Chinese province tayo ay, Wang Ni, at yung kapitbahay kung matanda, Malu Wang:lol:

Kala ko wang bu :lol:

oo, puede sya sa alyas:rofl:

China is planning to expand the Binondo China Town... brace for an invasion!



Korny mo g*g*! :bash:

ano yun?:rofl:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2HIczkU1-o

Hindi kaya ito ang ikinagalit ng mga instik? Hehehehe

sayang at ndi tayo naging state ng US dati, yan tuloy ngayon may nahalukay nanaman sa baul ang China may mapa din pala sila ng province of the philippines hahaha.... anu kayang mapa next nilang mahahanap???

sayang at ndi tayo naging state ng US dati, yan tuloy ngayon may nahalukay nanaman sa baul ang China may mapa din pala sila ng province of the philippines hahaha.... anu kayang mapa next nilang mahahanap???

Probinsya nila ang amerika at europe..hehehehe

China hits Philippines for worsening standoff

(philstar.com) Updated May 09, 2012 10:49 AM
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=805261&publicationSubCategoryId=200



MANILA, Philippines - China on Wednesday said the Philippines is aggravating the tension at the Scarborough (Panatag) Shoal and warned that it is ready to respond if the tension continues to escalate.

Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Fu Ying said the Philippines is "making serious mistakes" and escalating tension while China is keeping its position to seek diplomatic solution to the Panatag Shoal dispute.

"The Philippine side continued to send government vessels to the lagoon of the Huangyan (Panatag) Island, and repeatedly made erroneous remarks which mislead the public in the Philippines and the international community, played up the public feelings, thus severely damaging the atmosphere of the bilateral relations between China and the Philippines," Fu said.


- mga baliw talaga, tactics ng typical na bully yung palabasin na sila pa ang napeperwisyo at magmukhang biktima...

wag na umasa ang pilipinas for international support, on this modern world wala ng bansa ang may gusto makisaw saw, see the position of US they choose to be neutral and therefore malakas ang hatak ng US so other nation will just issue statement that they condemned China but thats it, wala ng iba...

so yun we are definitely on our own, MDT sucks, in my opinion there will be no US soldier na makikidigma on our side, but MDT will just be a tool to acquire more war items and a quick training by them and thats it... ndi maganda ang political climate dito sa US dahil election season nanaman and walang boboto sa kanila kung ang policy nila is be on war again... I hope China will have mercy on our 2 ships on Panatag shoal, lets pray ndi maulit yun vietnam massacre sa paracel island dati...

MDT doesn't cover disputed territories anyway. Plus as this article states,

...Yet Washington remains ambiguous on whether or not it would come to the aid of the Philippines in case of a shooting war. Indeed, the good ambassador, as a senior diplomat has pointed out, never even mentioned the Mutual Defense Treaty. (http://thenutbox.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/will-the-us-come-to-the-philippines-aid-in-the-spratlys/) Let’s face it; an assurance of American military back-up is the only insurance the Philippines has against serious Chinese harassments, the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) being incredibly weak as it is. The problem, however, is that, as many experts have pointed out (http://www.journal.com.ph/index.php/news/national/7620-ph-us-defense-treaty-useless), the PH-US MDT does not contain any automatic retaliation clause. It only says that, in case of common threats, both parties would respond “in accordance with their constitutional processes.” This means that the MDT does not bind America to automatically come to help the Philippines case of an attack; indeed, it gives the Americans plenty of room to bail out. The question now is, if worse comes to worst, would they bail out? I think the answer is more nuanced than most people realize.
The United States has many considerations to consider, and chief among them is the growing importance, in the eyes of the Obama administration, of Washington’s relations, on one hand, with Beijing, and, on the other hand, with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in general and Manila in particular.
...

Other than that, you are right. Americans are war weary and any slight mention of a possible conflict will antagonise either party.

I think this comes down to what so many have been saying all along . It's time to grow up, act like an independent country and realise we cannot hang on 'Papa Sugar's coattails forever. Or to put it bluntly, rely on other countries to ensure Philippine security and sovereignty.

Hindi kelangan ng rejection ng MDT. China is not dumb Not to blockade US bases going to "our rescue"

May travel advisory daw ang China sa may 11. Humihithit talaga ang CCP

http://www.interaksyon.com/article/31440/china-issues-travel-advisory-ahead-of-may-11-rally

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/421564_303150563085988_163373143730398_864184_2106620043_n.jpg

Interesting :lol:

lW7zYKaDwvg

“I think our peaceful means will win support from Southeast Asian friends,” he said, “and isolate the Philippines.” -Shi Yinhong of Renmin University

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/gordon-g-chang/beijing-targets-philippines#disqus_thread

“I think our peaceful means will win support from Southeast Asian friends,” he said, “and isolate the Philippines.” -Shi Yinhong of Renmin University

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/gordon-g-chang/beijing-targets-philippines#disqus_thread

Parang baliktad mangyayari ah :lol:


Anyway

baliktanaw!

S70xq-jP7jc

bgrJw95Pp2A

rFpIp_lqc4s

Beijing Targets the Philippines
(http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/gordon-g-chang/beijing-targets-philippines#disqus_thread)
On Sunday, Beijing launched an apparently coordinated campaign to intimidate the Philippine government, which has recently moved to increase defense cooperation with the US.

In recent days, Manila revealed that American reconnaissance planes and warships are planning to rotate through Philippine bases and that the Pentagon is discussing the sale of equipment and the provision of additional training. Philippine and US marines will practice defending and retaking oil rigs in the disputed South China Sea. In March, the two countries will be holding further defense talks.

Why is Manila reversing two decades of cool relations with the United States? Beijing claims as its own the entire South China Sea and virtually all the islands in it, and this expansive notion puts Beijing into conflict with countries, like the Philippines, that have historically occupied islands close to their shores. Aggressive Chinese moves in the area have driven such nations to seek Washington’s help in the past three years.

“Without a deterrent force, we can be easily pushed around,” said Philippine Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin on Friday, after two days of talks in Washington. “Our territories will be violated. Now that we have a good neighbor on the block, we can no longer be bullied.”

The Chinese evidently think otherwise. “We hope that relevant parties will make more effort towards peace and stability in the region,” the Chinese Foreign Ministry said in a statement faxed to AFP. The mild words, issued on Sunday, have to be seen in the context of a barrage of belligerent comments from Chinese state media.

On Sunday, the Global Times, owned by the official People’s Daily, ran a hostile article titled “Make Philippines Pay for Balancing Act.” Beijing, the paper wrote, “will not accept a small country in the region creating military tensions by playing a balancing strategy. A price should be paid for violating this principle. The Philippines will not be an exception.”

And what is the price? “Well-measured sanctions against the Philippines will make it ponder the choice of losing a friend such as China and being a vain partner with the US.”

Then the official China Daily chimed in on Monday by running an extraordinary piece threatening a downward spiral in Sino-American ties. Paraphrasing Wang Junsheng of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, the paper wrote that enhanced defense cooperation between America and the Philippines “sends a very dangerous signal that could cause China to misjudge the US’ intentions, and raise suspicions between the two countries.”

Earlier this month, Shi Yinhong of Renmin University stated that Beijing would go after the Philippines because it was, among the nations bordering the South China Sea, “the most active and critical country in trying to gain US support over the past year.” As the Global Times said, Beijing, to protect its claims, had to “single out a few cases and apply due punishment.”

The paper specifically urged Beijing to use economic leverage to cut ties between Manila and the nine other countries of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, and if there was any doubt that this was just the opinion of one state-run paper, Shi, who Beijing often uses as a mouthpiece, had suggested the same thing in an interview with Hong Kong’s South China Morning Post. “I think our peaceful means will win support from Southeast Asian friends,” he said, “and isolate the Philippines.”

But the other nations in Southeast Asia are also lining up against Beijing because China claims their islands too. So Shi’s prediction reveals how much Beijing is out of touch with sentiment throughout the region, and this misperception is an indication of why things could go terribly wrong in the South China Sea this year.

China is our business partner, sure!


BUT FRIEND?

Ito ang masasabi ko!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m341efzah11rs88hwo2_400.jpg

May "friend" bang pataksil kukunin ang Mischief reef at Kamuntikan na rin kunin ng pataksil ang Scarborough noon?

Interesting :lol:

lW7zYKaDwvg

Very interesting indeed.:cheers:

Beijing Targets the Philippines
(http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/gordon-g-chang/beijing-targets-philippines#disqus_thread)


China is our business partner, sure!


BUT FRIEND?

Ito ang masasabi ko!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m341efzah11rs88hwo2_400.jpg

May "friend" bang pataksil kukunin ang Mischief reef at Kamuntikan na rin kunin ng pataksil ang Scarborough noon?

We are the weakest among ASEAN 5 countries and probably perceived by China as the first country who will not hesitate in supporting US interests in Asia.

It looks like a 'SKIRMISH' is imminent anytime now around the Scarborough Shoal as China appears to have lost all it's patience in this month long standoff based on all the recent news reports within the last 24 to 48 hours , Good Luck to ALL ... :ohno:

It looks like a 'SKIRMISH' is imminent anytime now around the Scarborough Shoal as China appears to have lost all it's patience in this month long standoff based on all the recent news reports within the last 24 to 48 hours , Good Luck to ALL ... :ohno:

They are pissed because

1. We are "noynoying" them :lol:
2. They could not isolate us no matter what lies they spread. Masyadong "madada" si Noynoy :lol:

Washington Still Can’t Talk Honestly About China
(http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/gordon-g-chang/washington-still-can%E2%80%99t-talk-honestly-about-china)
“Very constructive.” That’s how Undersecretary of Defense Michele Flournoy characterized the 12th round of the US-China Defense Consultative Talks, which were held in Beijing on December 7th. “I don’t think there was any new ground broken,” she added, “but I think we had a good exchange of views.”
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Her counterpart in the discussions, General Ma Xiaotian, appeared a little less satisfied. The deputy chief of the General Staff of the People’s Liberation Army questioned Flournoy, the Pentagon’s policy chief, about many issues, but none more contentious than last month’s announcement, by President Obama and Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard, that the US would be rotating 2,500 Marines through the northern coastal city of Darwin. Chinese state media has portrayed that move as part of an effort to “encircle” China.

Flournoy, however, told the PLA not to worry. “We assured General Ma and his delegation that the US does not seek to contain China,” she said, referring to Beijing’s concerns about the Marines being based Down Under. “We do not view China as an adversary.” The Marines will be going to Australia, she mentioned, primarily to meet “non-traditional challenges.”

In her post-meeting remarks, Flournoy also mentioned she talked about “transparency between our two countries.” It’s good she raised the topic, because on this point she could learn something from her Chinese interlocutors. At the end of last month, for instance, they denounced the Obama-Gillard announcement, leaving no doubt how Beijing felt. And then the always interesting Major General Luo Yuan, asking the United States to explain its basing of troops in Australia, said this to the official China Daily: “The US has always asked China to be transparent about its strategy. It is the US who should make its intentions clear.”

If you’re a Chinese military planner, you could be forgiven if you thought that Flournoy was not being particularly candid. While the Marine Corps is preparing to station troops on Australian soil, Washington is busy strengthening defense ties with traditional allies, like Japan and the Philippines, as well as establishing relations with a former enemy, Vietnam. This is occurring while the US Navy is making plans to deploy to Singapore its new Littoral Combat Ships. And if all this were not bad enough, the Chinese have to wonder why the Pentagon would announce the “Air-Sea Battle” concept if it is not preparing to counter China.

Although the Obama administration, to its great credit, is “pivoting” toward Asia to counter Chinese expansionism, it is not ready to talk about what it is really doing. If Undersecretary Flournoy wonders why she did not make real progress in Beijing last week, it is because she was trying to deny the obvious to her Chinese hosts.

In the Cold War, the United States was forthright about its defense of freedom and free markets. Now, Washington has accepted the responsibility of maintaining peace and stability in Asia, but it cannot do so effectively without admitting why the American presence there is necessary in the first place.

We are enhancing our presence in Asia because Beijing seeks to control the land of others and to exercise dominion over the high seas and international airspace. The Chinese keep destabilizing the region, in part because they do not hear the United States in public say, in clear terms, that it opposes their ever-widening ambitions.

Gordon G. Chang's blog

China Takes on America in a 'Zero-Sum Game' (http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/gordon-g-chang/china-takes-america-zero-sum-game)

What is the best way for China to take over the world? Yan Xuetong of Tsinghua University suggests a game plan in his Monday New York Times op-ed, first published online on Sunday.
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In “How China Can Defeat America,” Yan, perhaps Beijing’s leading international relations analyst, argues that, even without democracy, China can present a more attractive model to the world than the United States and therefore win over allies around the globe. “It is the battle for people’s hearts and minds that will determine who eventually prevails,” Yan writes. “As China’s ancient philosophers predicted, the country that displays more humane authority will win.”

In making his points, Yan distorts Chinese history, misdescribes the current global situation, and maligns the United States. Yet along the way he also performs a valuable service for Americans, giving them an opportunity to view his government in a more realistic light. In the provocative op-ed, a distillation of his recently released book, Yan explains that competition between Beijing and Washington is “inevitable.” And then he ends his piece with this thought: “China’s quest to enhance its world leadership status and America’s effort to maintain its present position is a zero-sum game.”

Zero-sum competition? That’s not the way Washington’s foreign policy specialists see the international system. Since the end of the Second World War, they have believed that every nation can better its lot with free markets, free trade, and free politics. Chinese leaders have eschewed all three of these “Western” concepts, but they have appropriated that awful phrase, “win-win,” and assure us they believe in it. With a win-win mind-set, governments around the world have sought to “engage” China, nurture it, and ease its entry into the international community.

Naturally, the Chinese state has prospered in such a benign environment. But instead of accepting the international system as it was—the fond hope of the engagers—Beijing has sought to upend and replace it with something more friendly to its brand of authoritarianism. In short, liberal institutions are seen as a threat to China’s one-party state, and so it should come as no surprise that its leaders view geopolitics as an I-win, you-lose proposition.

Should the United States change its conception of geopolitics in response to Beijing’s world view? No. Yet one thing is clear: the global community needs to understand that engagement with China has not changed the darkish perspectives of its leaders—who continue to believe that it is in their interests to undermine America and its many friends.

China Expels Al Jazeera Channel
(http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/world/asia/china-expels-al-jazeera-english-language-channel.html?_r=3)
BEIJING — Al Jazeera, the satellite broadcasting network, was forced by the Chinese authorities to close its China news operations of its English-language channel on Monday, the first such action in almost 14 years and the strongest sign yet of fraying relations between the ruling Communist Party and the overseas journalists who cover it.
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Times Topics: China | Al Jazeera | Bo Xilai

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The network’s correspondent Melissa Chan was scheduled to leave Beijing by jet Monday night after the government refused normally routine requests to renew her press credentials or to allow another correspondent to replace her.

She declined to be quoted about her departure, and the government’s motive was not explicitly stated. But among other broadcasts, officials were said by some to have been angered by an English-language documentary on Chinese re-education through labor camps that Al Jazeera produced outside China and broadcast on its network in November.

The labor camps are often used to punish dissidents and other troublemakers. The documentary called the camps a form of slavery in which millions of prisoners produce goods sold worldwide by major companies. China denies using slave labor in its prisons.

In a statement released on Tuesday, the Beijing-based Foreign Correspondents’ Club of China noted that Ms. Chan played no role in the documentary that appeared to anger the Chinese, and that the government had offered no specific reason for denying the renewal of her visa beyond violations of unnamed rules.

“This is the most extreme example of a recent pattern of using journalist visas in an attempt to censor and intimidate foreign correspondents in China,” the group stated. “The F.C.C.C. believes that foreign news organizations, not the Chinese government, have the right to choose who works for them in China, in line with international standards.”

Jazeera English officials expressed regret at the closing of their China operations, and said in a statement they had sought additional visas for journalists to expand their coverage here without success.

The closure, if not reversed, is a potentially significant loss for Al Jazeera Network, which began more than 15 years ago as the first independent news channel in the Arab world. It has expanded to more than 20 channels with more than 60 bureaus on six continents, according to the Web site of the parent company, based in Doha, Qatar. Ms. Chan, an American, was recently accepted as a Knight Journalism Fellow at Stanford for the 2012-13 academic year.

“We constantly cover the voice of the voiceless, and sometimes that calls for tough news coverage from anywhere in world,” Salah Negm, Al Jazeera’s English news director, said in a written statement. “We hope China appreciates the integrity of our news coverage and our journalism. We value this journalistic integrity in our coverage of all countries in the world.”

The rejection of press credentials for Al Jazeera comes amid rising official sensitivity to foreign news coverage as China’s ascendance — and its increasingly high-profile social and political problems — have become issues of global importance and, in some quarters, criticism.

In recent weeks, Chinese authorities have privately and sharply criticized Western coverage of the upheaval in the country’s leadership ranks after the ouster of Bo Xilai, the ambitious Politburo member whose wife has been accused of murdering a British acquaintance.

Most recently, Beijing security officials last week harassed foreign journalists reporting on Chen Guangcheng, the blind lawyer and rights activist who fled house arrest last month to seek refuge in the United States Embassy here.

On Friday, officers temporarily confiscated the identification cards of several journalists who entered the grounds of the Beijing hospital where Mr. Chen is confined. Roughly a dozen other journalists were summoned to the public security bureau and warned that their visas would be revoked if they did not ask permission before seeking interviews with officials and others knowledgeable about Mr. Chen’s situation.

Journalists in China are nominally required to seek approval before conducting interviews, but in practice, the rule is almost never enforced.

Restrictions on foreign journalism in China are widely seen to have tightened in the last 18 months, as China’s leaders have striven to project an aura of stability and unity amid global political upheavals and China’s own turnover to a new generation of leaders, scheduled for this fall.

The crackdown dates to early 2011, when security officers detained foreign journalists seeking to cover the so-called Jasmine Spring protests, an online call for demonstrations in sympathy with Arab Spring revolutions in the Middle East. One American journalist was severely beaten and hospitalized. Many others were summoned to public security offices for warnings.

Still, Beijing generally has been loath to expel foreign journalists, and the few prominent instances have often involved allegations that reporters had violated national security prohibitions.

Ms. Chan is believed to be the first accredited foreign correspondent to be denied reporting privileges since the October 1998 expulsion of Yukihisa Nakatsu, a journalist with Japan’s largest daily newspaper, Yomiuri Shimbun. Mr. Nakatsu was accused of obtaining state secrets, apparently stemming from his contacts with a Chinese economic journalist arrested earlier by state security officers.

The Chinese expelled a German correspondent in 1995 after he wrote articles sharply critical of Li Peng, then the premier, who played a key role in decisions to use force to quash the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests. Andrew Higgins, a correspondent for London’s Independent newspaper, was expelled in 1991 after being found with confidential information about a supposed crackdown on Inner Mongolian nationalists.

Sharon LaFraniere contributed reporting.

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: May 7, 2012

An earlier version of this article stated incorrectly that Andrew Higgins was expelled from China in 1992. He was expelled in 1991. The article also incorrectly stated that Melissa Chan, the Al Jazeera correspondent, no longer worked for Al Jazeera English. She still does.

Eto yun oh....

http://www.aljazeera.com/video/asia-pacific/2012/03/201231343650917522.html

They are pissed because

1. We are "noynoying" them :lol:
2. They could not isolate us no matter what lies they spread. Masyadong "madada" si Noynoy :lol:

In other words, we don't buy their B/S. :lol:

In other words, we don't buy their B/S. :lol:

In fairness kay Noynoy, bad strategy yang trip na nya yan sa domestic issue

pero very effective sa China :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Bakit sila nagagalit, bakit sila high blood eh dalawa lang barko natin dun :lol:

China blames the Philippines for South China Sea dispute (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/terrorism-security/2012/0508/China-blames-the-Philippines-for-South-China-Sea-dispute/%28page%29/2#disqus_thread)

A month-long standoff in the South China Sea between China and the Philippines picked up a notch today, with China accusing the Philippines of "continuous provocation" and warning that it is prepared to respond to any escalations.

The dispute is over what is known internationally as the Scarborough Shoal, a cluster of islands in the South China Sea less than 200 miles from the Philippines. The Philippines insists the shoal is within its exclusive economic zone, but China has staked claim to huge swathes of the South China Sea hundreds of miles from its shore, including this one (known in China as Huangyan Island), bringing it into conflict with several countries in the region.

China has painted the Philippine claim to the land as opportunistic, noting that China first staked a claim in 1935, while the Philippines didn't until 1997. In an Op-Ed for China Daily, Li Jenming, a professor at the Center for Southeast Asia Studies, writes that the "exclusive economic zone" claim "lacks legal basis."

RELATED East Asia's top 5 island disputes

China has continuously portrayed the Philippines as the aggressor in the latest standoff, which began in early April when a Philippine naval ship attempted to arrest Chinese fishermen found fishing in the waters around the shoal. They were blocked by other Chinese ships accompanying the fishing vessels.

Both Chinese and Philippine ships have been hovering in the area since then, BBC reports, and today China's vice foreign minister called on the Philippines to remove its ships. China has rejected requests to resolve the dispute at the International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea.

Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Fu Ying said today that her country is prepared to respond to any efforts by the Philippines to escalate the situation. The Philippines has sent ships to the disputed area and made "erroneous" comments that have distorted the view of Filipinos and the international community, she said, according to Xinhua.

"However, it is obvious that the Philippine side has not realized that it is making serious mistakes and, instead, is stepping up efforts to escalate tensions," Ms. Fu said. "Therefore it is hard for us to be optimistic about the situation."

Philippine provocations include, according to China Daily, Manila's renaming of the island, bringing the dispute to an international court unilaterally, and the continued presence of Filipino ships in the Scarborough Shoal area.

Although the US has helped the Philippines boost its maritime defenses, most recently by providing the Philippine navy with its largest ship, it appears to be trying to remain out of the dispute.
Ariel Zirulnick

Europe Editor

Ariel Zirulnick is the Monitor's Europe editor, overseeing regional coverage both for CSMonitor.com and the weekly magazine. She is also the main contributor to the international desk's terrorism and security blog.
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Three fishing boats involved in standoff between China and the Philippines leave shoal

Aiding the Philippines is part of the US strategy for keeping China's power in the region in check, which the US has framed as an interest in keeping the South China Sea open to international shipping. However, the US has insisted that it will remain neutral in this standoff – a move that pleased Beijing. The China Daily called US neutrality "helpful to stability."

An Op-Ed in China Daily, headlined "Never compromise," praises the way China has "defended its sovereignty" by dispatching ships to the shoal but refusing to open fire, avoiding a military confrontation, and dissects the US role in the standoff.

If the incident escalates into open military conflict, [the Philippines] wants its most powerful ally, the United States, to back it against China. Even if it does not, the Philippines is hoping to gain the support of the international community by portraying itself as a small, bullied country being threatened by China.

Without doubt, if the Philippines gets support from the US and other countries it will take an even tougher approach in the future.

The Philippines has a very good plan, with only one drawback: neither the US nor any of its other allies are its puppets. Actually, the alliance between the US and the Philippines is typical of an alliance between a big power and a small country, in which the big power fears being dragged into a conflict not of its choosing, while the small country fears being sacrificed in the interests of its powerful ally.

The US wants to make use of China's disputes with its neighbors to contain and balance China, but it does not want to become involved in any direct military conflict with China. Its recent promise of not "taking sides" bears testimony to this policy.

Despite the high tensions over territorial claims, China and the Philippines appear to be moving forward on an oil partnership. Philippines President Benigno Aquino said that he would allow Chinese companies to explore oil and gas resources, keeping the political dispute and the commercial venture on two separate tracks, Bloomberg reports.

“We now have an energy source within the region, not subject to the current turmoil that is being experienced and has to be completed in the Middle East,” Aquino said. “Doesn’t it redound to everybody to get these resources online at the soonest possible time?”

PH eyes third warship, this time from Italy (http://www.interaksyon.com/article/31446/ph-eyes-third-warship-this-time-from-italy)
09-May-12, 12:41 PM | Abigail Kwok, InterAksyon.com


MANILA, Philippines - The Philippines is looking to acquire a third warship from Italy after it acquired two from the United States, Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin revealed on Wednesday.

"We are not totally relying on the US. Yes, we are looking at Europe, we're looking specifically at Italy," Gazmin said.

The BRP Gregorio del Pilar, the first warship, was acquired by the Philippines from the US Coast Guard last year.

The second may arrive in November, Gazmin said. He said he asked US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta that the US restore the weapons stripped from the first ship and turn over the second with all its armaments intact.

So it's confirmed it's from Italy

Vivire!

So it's confirmed it's from Italy

Vivire!

the 2012-2016 Italian Navy decommissioning schedule, as posted by me and jammerjamesky on the Timawa forums (http://www.timawa.com/forum):

from jammerjamesky:

2012-2016 Italian Navy Schedule

4 Maestrale class frigates
3 Soldati class light frigates
3 Lerici class mine hunters
6 Minerva corvettes
4 small training ships for cadets
1 Stromboli class AOR
1 Submarine rescue ship
4 tugboats

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj79/jammerjamesky/untitled.jpg

http://www.difesa.it/Sala_Stampa/rassegna_stampa_online/Pagine/PdfNavigator.aspx?d=14-04-2012&pdfIndex=8


from yours truly:

Italian Navy Decommissioning Schedule by ship class (my source is, obviously, the great find by Sir jammerjamesky):

2012:

1. one Soldati class frigate (Artigliere)
2. two Minerva class corvettes (Minerva, Sibilla)
3. two Lerici class minehunters (Lerici, Sapri)
4. one Atlante class tug (Promoteo)

2013:

1. one Maestrale class frigate (Maestrale)
2. one Soldati class frigate (Granatiere)
3. one Minerva class corvette (Danaide)
4. three Ciclope class tugs (Ciclope, Gigante, Tenace)

2014:

1. one Maestrale class frigate (Espero)
2. one Minerva class corvette (Urania)

2015:

1. one Maestrale class frigate (Aliseo)
2. one Soldati class frigate (Aviere)
3. one Minerva class corvette (Sfinge)
4. one Lerici class minehunter (Milazzo)
5. some small vessels (Propora, Murena, Astice, Mitilo)
6. one salvage ship (Anteo)

2016:

1. one Maestrale class frigate (Euro)
2. one Minerva class corvette (Driade)
3. one Stromboli class replenishment vessel (Stromboli)


quite an interesting list of ships that the Italians will let go starting this year. let's do something to get most of them. :)

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8953/china2c.png

okay. so we're not after F-16s anymore. what do we want this time?

PH junks plan to buy 'ageing' F16s (http://www.interaksyon.com/article/31456/ph-junks-plan-to-buy-ageing-f16s)
09-May-12, 2:39 PM | Abigail Kwok, Interaksyon.com


MANILA, Philippines -- The Philippines has abandoned plans to purchase “ageing” F16 fighter jets from the United States after deciding repairing and refurbishing the aircraft would cost too much.

“F16 is an ageing air asset that will be given to us. It’s mothballed and if you’re going to refurbish it, we have to evaluate because it will cost too much,” Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin told a news briefing.

Even after refurbishing, he added, the jets would only have three to four years of flying time left.

“Lugi ka (You lose),” Gazmin said.

The defense chief said the fighter jets were not brought up during the 2+2 meeting with US officials in Washington.

However, the Philippine government has lined up the purchase of several air assets, including 21 Vietnam War-vintage UH1H helicopters, 10 attack helicopters and two C130 cargo planes. The Philippines is also expecting four additional SoKol choppers within the year.

A 'becky' goes to Balikatan
(http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?publicationSubCategoryId=448&articleId=803772)
MANILA, Philippines - I was watching the coronation night of Binibining Pilipinas — as all beckys do — when I got an assignment that was even more shocking than Donald Trump’s decision to let a transgender woman join Miss Universe. I, Elmer Badilla, was asked to cover the annual military exercises of the Philippines and the United States, or in other words, the Balikatan. My first reaction was “Pak!”

I wanted to ask, “Why me? Di ba halata sa kembot kong bakla ako? Tapos pasasabakin mo ako sa gear?” But of course, a budding journalist cannot afford to be choosy. So I just said to myself “OK lang, isipin mo na lang ang mga boys. Sa dami ng pagpipilian, mag-iinarte ka pa ba?”

And I was right. Balikatan was full of boys. Boys in all shapes, sizes, ages and colors. In short, buffet!

On my first day, I spotted a cute US marine named Leo. We were at a remote barangay in Puerto Princesa. Kids were waiting for him to come out from the portalet, so he could continue teaching them how to “move like Jagger.” I was surprised at his charm. He didn’t carry a gun. The only deadly weapon he had was his killer smile. I almost fell in love with him right then and there. He’s a perfect package: jowa na, bodyguard pa! For sure, he’ll make a perfect father to our children.

But it gets better.

Later, I watched the soldiers construct a building, and I quickly realized that the charm of the US forces was no match to the angas of our Pinoy soldiers. Sipat-sipat lang, shoot na sa banga ang building! The Pinoys used a water hose as a leveling tool, at nag-suicide ang mga Kano. Ang galing daw natin.

Bida pa rin ang Pinoy during the actual warfare training. I was invited to join a “simulated night port raid exercise”, which the military decided to hold in broad daylight. A night raid in broad daylight? Game! May view pa rin ako.
Troopers interrogate a rogue shrub.

But, plangak! There were blasts and explosions — gun shots from all directions. Fake rockets were launched and smoke signals were everywhere. I almost died of asthma. But I never expected it to be that fun. We in the media also ran, rolled and dodged hurdles, as if we were part of the war games. For a while, I felt like an action star — like Angelina Jolie as Tomb Raider or Rustom Padilla in his movie Mista.

Of course, wiz magpapalulu ang mga sundalong Pinoy. Kering-keri makipagsabayan, even to their US counterparts. Basta wag lang sa Inglesan.

There was an American commander barking orders, and all of a sudden, one of our soldiers asked, “Ano daw?” If this happened in real life, I bet teggyboom na si kuya. Pero for this exercise, award! Best in humor.

I guess this answers the complaint of many reporters, who rarely get shots of Filipinos and Americans working together. It’s the language barrier, teh.

But despite this, I guess this year’s Balikatan has served its purpose. Both countries were able to exchange learning experiences about warfare, construction, and life in general.

I, on the other hand, am happy to report that I survived the whole coverage. Despite the machismo of the military officials, I got to be friends with many of them. Maybe because I’m Ms. Congeniality.

But more than the action, the experience and the frolicking, what made me proud is that despite our country’s deficiencies in terms of technology and equipment, our military is still in high morale and is more than willing to fight for our people. They risk their own lives to ensure world peace, and they don’t feel any pressure right now.

The US recently repealed a law called “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell,” which prevented openly gay people from serving in the military. Good for them. After all, it’s not sexuality that defines a soldier, but bravery.

Unfortunately, I didn’t find anyone to take home with me. Totoo ngang aanhin mo pa ang guwapo, kung hindi naman sayo. Ansaveh?

Philippines must buy armaments, says Enrile

MANILA, Philippines—The Philippines should now buy armaments, Senate President Juan Ponce-Enrile on Wednesday said amid warning from China it was fully ready for an escalation of a maritime standoff in the Scarborough Shoal.

“We must prepare. We better buy war equipment. We better buy our weapons, our means of defense,” Enrile told reporters.

The remark also came amid a reported growing number of Chinese vessels in the disputed shoal in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

edited

(source)

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/36063/philippines-must-buy-armaments-says-enrile

China TV 'claims' Philippines as Chinese territory (http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/257591/news/world/china-tv-claims-philippines-as-chinese-territory?utm_source=GMANews&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_campaign=GMANewsTwitter)
May 9, 2012 2:32pm


Beijing — An anchor on China's state-run television network has accidentally declared the Philippines a part of China, in an embarrassing gaffe as tensions between the two nations run high.

He Jia, anchor for China Central Television's (CCTV) nationally televised news broadcast, made the claim during a late Monday broadcast that has been repeatedly replayed on the Internet.

The presenter apparently meant to say that the Huangyan islands – known in the Philippines as the Scarborough Shoal, and claimed by both nations – is China's territory.

"We all know that the Philippines is China's inherent territory and the Philippines belongs to Chinese sovereignty, this is an indisputable fact," He said in the broadcast, which has since disappeared from the CCTV website but is available elsewhere on the web.

Viewers joked in online postings that the presenter's nationalistic fervour led to her mistake.

"This anchor woman is great, a good patriot, she has announced to the world the the Philippines belongs to China," said a microblogger named helenjhuang.

"We should attack directly, send (Philippine President Benigno) Aquino packing and take back our inherent territory."

Another microblogger named kongdehua said, "the Philippines have basically been making irrational trouble, if they want to start a war then we will strike, no one fears them.

"If every Chinese spat once, we could drown (the Philippines)."

CCTV officials refused comment on He's gaff when contacted by AFP and would not say whether the station had apologised.

When commenting on territorial disputes and separatist movements in Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang and neighbouring sea areas, Chinese diplomats and media routinely claim all such areas as an "indisputable part of China's sovereignty and territorial integrity."

Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Fu Ying said late Monday Beijing was ready for "any escalation" of the maritime standoff with the Philippines that has become one of the most high-profile flare ups over the South China Seas and its vast oil and gas deposits in years.

Buti napulot din ng local media....


Sana mapulot ng international media :lol:

Good riddance kung ganun :D

China TV 'claims' Philippines as Chinese territory (http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/257591/news/world/china-tv-claims-philippines-as-chinese-territory?utm_source=GMANews&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_campaign=GMANewsTwitter)
May 9, 2012 2:32pm


Beijing — An anchor on China's state-run television network has accidentally declared the Philippines a part of China, in an embarrassing gaffe as tensions between the two nations run high.

He Jia, anchor for China Central Television's (CCTV) nationally televised news broadcast, made the claim during a late Monday broadcast that has been repeatedly replayed on the Internet.

The presenter apparently meant to say that the Huangyan islands – known in the Philippines as the Scarborough Shoal, and claimed by both nations – is China's territory.

"We all know that the Philippines is China's inherent territory and the Philippines belongs to Chinese sovereignty, this is an indisputable fact," He said in the broadcast, which has since disappeared from the CCTV website but is available elsewhere on the web.

Viewers joked in online postings that the presenter's nationalistic fervour led to her mistake.

"This anchor woman is great, a good patriot, she has announced to the world the the Philippines belongs to China," said a microblogger named helenjhuang.

"We should attack directly, send (Philippine President Benigno) Aquino packing and take back our inherent territory."

Another microblogger named kongdehua said, "the Philippines have basically been making irrational trouble, if they want to start a war then we will strike, no one fears them.

"If every Chinese spat once, we could drown (the Philippines)."

CCTV officials refused comment on He's gaff when contacted by AFP and would not say whether the station had apologised.

When commenting on territorial disputes and separatist movements in Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang and neighbouring sea areas, Chinese diplomats and media routinely claim all such areas as an "indisputable part of China's sovereignty and territorial integrity."

Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Fu Ying said late Monday Beijing was ready for "any escalation" of the maritime standoff with the Philippines that has become one of the most high-profile flare ups over the South China Seas and its vast oil and gas deposits in years.
:nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:
putik, ito na umpisa na, inangkin na ng buo, di na isla isla lang:nuts:

China ready for war?
By Jun Pisco
Journal Online
http://www.journal.com.ph/index.php/news/top-stories/29533-china-ready-for-war

CHINA summoned anew yesterday the Philippines charge d’affaires to Beijing to make serious representations over the impasse in Bajo de Masinloc (Scarborough Shoal) and warned they have made all the necessary preparations in the event they have to respond to any escalation of the tension in the disputed area.

Vice Foreign Minister Fu Ying made the warning when she summoned on Monday Alex Chua, charge d’affaires of the Philippine Embassy in Bejing.

“The Chinese side has also made all preparations to respond to any escalation of the situation by the Philippine side,” Fu told the Philippine diplomat according to a statement posted on the Chinese Foreign Ministry website.

Fu said that it has been almost a month since the incident at Bajo de Masinloc occurred and it should have been ended early.

“I called to see you twice last month, asking the Philippine side to calm down and refrain from taking actions which would escalate or complicate the situation. However, it is obvious that the Philippine side has not realized that it is making serious mistakes and instead is stepping up efforts to escalate tensions,” Fu told Chua.

Fu said the “Philippine side continued to send government vessels to the lagoon of Bajo de Masinloc, and repeatedly made erroneous remarks which mislead the public in the Philippines and the international community, played up the public feelings, thus severely damaging the atmosphere of the bilateral relations between China and the Philippines.”

“Therefore it is hard for us to be optimistic about the situation,” Fu said.

Fu said it is hoped that the Philippine side will not misjudge the situation, and not escalate tensions without considering the consequences.

She accused Manila of continuous provocation.

Fu said China’s response is to continue to send Chinese government vessels to be on alert in the sea area of the Philippines’ Bajo de Masinloc.

^^sabi ko na nga ba...eventually, aangkinin din nila ang buong Pilipinas. :bash::bash:

Scarborough standoff: China - 30 vessels; Philippines - 2
By Abigail Kwok
InterAksyon.com
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/31379/scarborough-standoff-china-30-vessels-philippines-2

MANILA, Philippines - The standoff at Scarborough (Panatag) Shoal entered its first month Tuesday with as many as 30 Chinese boats facing two Philippine vessels, the Armed Forces' Northern Luzon Command said.

In its report, the Nolcom said as of Sunday, among the Chinese vessels at Scarbrough were the surveillance vessels CMS 75 and 81 and the armed fisheries patrol vessel FLEC 310.

On the Philippine side are the Coast Guard vessel "Sarangani" and a Bureau of Fisheries ship.

CMS 75 was 3.5 nautical miles southeast of the shoal's North Rock, CMS 81 1.04 nautical miles southeast, the Nolcom said.

FLEC 310, on the other hand, was 8.4 nautical miles southeast of North Rock.

Philippines must buy armaments, says Enrile

MANILA, Philippines—The Philippines should now buy armaments, Senate President Juan Ponce-Enrile on Wednesday said amid warning from China it was fully ready for an escalation of a maritime standoff in the Scarborough Shoal.

“We must prepare. We better buy war equipment. We better buy our weapons, our means of defense,” Enrile told reporters.

The remark also came amid a reported growing number of Chinese vessels in the disputed shoal in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

edited

(source)

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/36063/philippines-must-buy-armaments-says-enrile

Hay naku Enrile, gawin nyo na lang kaysa puro ka potak ng potak jan. Allowcate atleast 25% of our GDP in purhcasing armament for now. We don't need much but just enough to protect our sovereignty

Scarborough standoff: China - 30 vessels; Philippines - 2
By Abigail Kwok
InterAksyon.com
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/31379/scarborough-standoff-china-30-vessels-philippines-2

MANILA, Philippines - The standoff at Scarborough (Panatag) Shoal entered its first month Tuesday with as many as 30 Chinese boats facing two Philippine vessels, the Armed Forces' Northern Luzon Command said.

In its report, the Nolcom said as of Sunday, among the Chinese vessels at Scarbrough were the surveillance vessels CMS 75 and 81 and the armed fisheries patrol vessel FLEC 310.

On the Philippine side are the Coast Guard vessel "Sarangani" and a Bureau of Fisheries ship.

CMS 75 was 3.5 nautical miles southeast of the shoal's North Rock, CMS 81 1.04 nautical miles southeast, the Nolcom said.

FLEC 310, on the other hand, was 8.4 nautical miles southeast of North Rock.

putragis tongmga tsikomnato!

Scarborough standoff: China - 30 vessels; Philippines - 2
By Abigail Kwok
InterAksyon.com
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/31379/scarborough-standoff-china-30-vessels-philippines-2

MANILA, Philippines - The standoff at Scarborough (Panatag) Shoal entered its first month Tuesday with as many as 30 Chinese boats facing two Philippine vessels, the Armed Forces' Northern Luzon Command said.

In its report, the Nolcom said as of Sunday, among the Chinese vessels at Scarbrough were the surveillance vessels CMS 75 and 81 and the armed fisheries patrol vessel FLEC 310.

On the Philippine side are the Coast Guard vessel "Sarangani" and a Bureau of Fisheries ship.

CMS 75 was 3.5 nautical miles southeast of the shoal's North Rock, CMS 81 1.04 nautical miles southeast, the Nolcom said.

FLEC 310, on the other hand, was 8.4 nautical miles southeast of North Rock.

at tayo pa ang nang-gugulo sa lagay na yan eh noh!

Philippines must buy armaments, says Enrile

MANILA, Philippines—The Philippines should now buy armaments, Senate President Juan Ponce-Enrile on Wednesday said amid warning from China it was fully ready for an escalation of a maritime standoff in the Scarborough Shoal.



etong tandang enyong na ito ngayon lang ata na-realize yung sitwasyon ng Pinas. Ilang dekada na ba siyang nakaupo? :nuts: Naturingang dating sundalo at DefSec....

masyado na yata high sa shabu mga lider ng china. and dami kasi druglords sa china.

Hate to say it, but it looks scarborough shoal itself is lost.


I doubt this will actually escalate into war, but fact is china is using its larger navy to claim all the disputed areas. 2 vessels against 30 isnt gonna cut it.


Its only a matter of time before they go ahead and do the same thing in the rest of the sea.


All these asean countries which couldn't be interested to take a stand - well at least we get to eventually see china occupy their land as well lol.



Also, odd how china is accusing the philippines of escalating the situation, when they are the ones with 30 vessels in the area; as compared to just 2 :nuts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yultong

The Battle of Yultong,[6] also known as the Battle of Meiluodong (Chinese: 美罗洞战斗; pinyin: Měiluódòng Zhàndòu), was a battle of the Korean War. It was fought between elements of the Chinese People's Volunteer Army 44th Division and the Filipino 10th Battalion Combat Team (BCT) at the north of Yeoncheon during April 22–23, 1951.[7]

As part of the First Chinese Spring Offensive, the Chinese 44th Division attacked the US 65th Infantry Regiment of the US 3rd Infantry Division near Yeoncheon on the night of April 22.[4] The Filipino 10th BCT, part of the 65th Infantry Regiment,[2] was soon trapped at the Yultong area by 23:00.[6] Although the 10th BCT had lost all contacts with the outside world, the Filipinos held their position until the Chinese stopped their attacks on the morning of April 23.[6] The 10th BCT's action at Yultong allowed the US 3rd Infantry Division to successfully withdraw from the battlefield.[6]

PHILIPPINES
12 killed
38 wounded
6 missing[5]

CHINA
500 killed
2 captured[5]

China TV 'claims' Philippines as Chinese territory (http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/257591/news/world/china-tv-claims-philippines-as-chinese-territory?utm_source=GMANews&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_campaign=GMANewsTwitter)
May 9, 2012 2:32pm


Beijing — An anchor on China's state-run television network has accidentally declared the Philippines a part of China, in an embarrassing gaffe as tensions between the two nations run high.

He Jia, anchor for China Central Television's (CCTV) nationally televised news broadcast, made the claim during a late Monday broadcast that has been repeatedly replayed on the Internet.

The presenter apparently meant to say that the Huangyan islands – known in the Philippines as the Scarborough Shoal, and claimed by both nations – is China's territory.

"We all know that the Philippines is China's inherent territory and the Philippines belongs to Chinese sovereignty, this is an indisputable fact," He said in the broadcast, which has since disappeared from the CCTV website but is available elsewhere on the web.

Viewers joked in online postings that the presenter's nationalistic fervour led to her mistake.

"This anchor woman is great, a good patriot, she has announced to the world the the Philippines belongs to China," said a microblogger named helenjhuang.

"We should attack directly, send (Philippine President Benigno) Aquino packing and take back our inherent territory."

Another microblogger named kongdehua said, "the Philippines have basically been making irrational trouble, if they want to start a war then we will strike, no one fears them.

"If every Chinese spat once, we could drown (the Philippines)."

CCTV officials refused comment on He's gaff when contacted by AFP and would not say whether the station had apologised.

When commenting on territorial disputes and separatist movements in Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang and neighbouring sea areas, Chinese diplomats and media routinely claim all such areas as an "indisputable part of China's sovereignty and territorial integrity."

Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Fu Ying said late Monday Beijing was ready for "any escalation" of the maritime standoff with the Philippines that has become one of the most high-profile flare ups over the South China Seas and its vast oil and gas deposits in years.


ayan na, Chinese invasion na!

Oh baby baby baby, my baby bay Wo je bu neng xi shi ni (I'm sorry I can't lose you)

This is how they brainwash their citizens. Sa mga elementary schools pa roon, itinuturo sa mga bata na pag-aari ng China ang lahat ng mga islands at islets sa South China Sea including the scarborough shoal

^^sabi ko na nga ba...eventually, aangkinin din nila ang buong Pilipinas. :bash::bash:

Mai ang ipinangalan nila sa Pilipinas noong bago dumating ang mga kastila rito. ginagamit nanaman ang history nila as basis for claims nila

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Yultong

The Battle of Yultong,[6] also known as the Battle of Meiluodong (Chinese: 美罗洞战斗; pinyin: Měiluódòng Zhàndòu), was a battle of the Korean War. It was fought between elements of the Chinese People's Volunteer Army 44th Division and the Filipino 10th Battalion Combat Team (BCT) at the north of Yeoncheon during April 22–23, 1951.[7]

As part of the First Chinese Spring Offensive, the Chinese 44th Division attacked the US 65th Infantry Regiment of the US 3rd Infantry Division near Yeoncheon on the night of April 22.[4] The Filipino 10th BCT, part of the 65th Infantry Regiment,[2] was soon trapped at the Yultong area by 23:00.[6] Although the 10th BCT had lost all contacts with the outside world, the Filipinos held their position until the Chinese stopped their attacks on the morning of April 23.[6] The 10th BCT's action at Yultong allowed the US 3rd Infantry Division to successfully withdraw from the battlefield.[6]

PHILIPPINES
12 killed
38 wounded
6 missing[5]

CHINA
500 killed
2 captured[5]

Hehehehe. Nai-kwento mismo nga retired army sergeant who was a member of the 10th BCT sa akin yan noong high school pa ako! Sa dami daw ng kalaban, kahit bad shot siya nung una, bhira lang daw magmintis dun sa giyera na yun sa Yultong!

This post here is in the Chinese thread. It means "Sweep Scarborough, Attack Philippines"

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=91192218#post91192218


This post was made by Hidden Dragon (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/member.php?u=15341)

一、 中菲对峙黄岩岛，谁赢了？

1、 中菲对峙黄岩岛，事态至今还在持续，并可能升级，从当前的局势判断，您认为谁在这场对峙中占得上风？

回答：

我们可以先看看这是一个什么样的对峙，对于菲律宾而言，不说举倾国之兵，也是把吃奶的力气都使出来了。而中国，连动个小指头都算不上。如果继续升级，我想知道菲律宾拿什么升？如果菲律宾用军舰开火，那可能中国海军不得不破坏一个二战遗留的文物了，如果不开火，菲律宾有多少所谓的执法船只能禁得起这种对峙消耗？

所以谁占上风，不言自明了。

2、 中国在这场对峙中得到了什么？

中国在这张对峙中，已经充分的表明了自己的态度。明确告诉菲律宾，找美国傍大款，那是行不通的。美国也明确了一点，就是告诉菲律宾，找我美国当凯子，确实行不通的。



二、 黄岩岛为什么是中国的？

1、 目前黄岩岛及周边海域的实际控制权在谁手里？（菲律宾）有观点认为，中国应该借这次对峙，将黄岩岛的实际控制权拿下。您认为这有可能吗？

之所以菲律宾过去能去黄岩岛搞小动作，是因为黄岩岛的位置，类似我们说的城乡结合部，过去对当地治安没有加强管理，导致这种流窜作案的事情出的比较多。那么经过这次，我们肯定是要注意在当地的执法了。



三、 南海什么时候成了菲律宾的“核心利益”？

1、 菲律宾外长罗萨里奥在访美时说：“南海是菲律宾的核心利益。”是不是可以理解为在南海问题上，菲律宾是铁了心和中国对着干，没有妥协余地的了？

外长是外长，菲律宾是菲律宾。外长或者总统说什么，在这种国家都可以是过眼烟云。他们以前还说过，黄岩岛不是菲律宾的，不照样不算数么？国际社会上如此儿戏，那叫缺心眼。连心眼都没有，也就算不上铁了心。

菲律宾的核心利益，其实就是能把自己的香蕉卖出去，能让自己的劳务输出挣到钱。能做到这个，对他们来说就很不错了。

2、 罗萨里奥提出希望以法律、外交、政策三轨方式解决黄岩岛纠纷的方式也能运用到其他涉及南海争端的国家。从这次黄岩岛纠纷中菲律宾的做法，怎么理解所谓的“法律、外交、政策三轨方式”？这种三轨方式会给中国南海利益带来什么危害？如何应对？

关键是遵守什么法律，什么政策。老老实实遵守国际法，和相关的行为准则，还至于给自己这么难堪的地位么？政策上如果不是学印度人在1962年前的小把戏，也不会让自己现在这么难受。三轨方式未必对中国有害，毕竟法律和规则，不是菲律宾能定的。



四、 扫“黄”打菲

1、 中国在这次对峙中的处理方式是用渔政海监去对峙菲律宾的军舰。这样的做法在舆论中有不同的看法，有人认为这很聪明，有人认为军舰的缺位让中国显得软弱。您认为，中国处理黄岩岛对峙，到底应该出动军舰还是用海监渔政船？

现在菲律宾有些媒体，也认为菲律宾显得很软弱，道理恰恰是因为菲律宾派了军舰。好歹名义上也是一支海军，被几艘渔政船弄得手足无措，丢人不丢人啊？

中国不是不能出动军舰，而是不必。因为我们看透了菲律宾的本事了。

熟悉历史的朋友可以回顾一下当年冷战中，中国舰艇如何面对前苏联那些海上庞然大物的，几千吨的驱逐舰就在人家几万吨的庞然大物面前，毫不畏惧。所以根本不存在软弱的问题，说白了，就是菲律宾还不配呢。

而且，黄岩岛就是中国的领土嘛。维持国内正常渔业秩序，这事当然是渔政干了，我们是在国内执法啊。就好像北京大街上，交警执法难道还要背着冲锋枪，开着坦克么？说白了，这就是告诉全世界，黄岩岛这个问题上，根本不存在什么争议，我的就是我的。

2、 此前中国曾经主动撤走部分在黄岩岛对峙的船只，但并没有得到菲律宾的友善回应。随后有菲律宾媒体炒作，说中国海监船仅仅是撤离对峙海域，但并没有走远，而且撤离的方向是往东南方向，也就是往菲律宾的方向撤离。如果菲律宾媒体的报道属实，如何来解读中国这个动作的背后含义呢？

正常巡查嘛。根据报道，中国船只去的地方，也就是距离黄岩岛12海里之处。我们自己的地盘，自己的院墙，自己巡视一下，谁也不能说三道四。

3、 有观点认为，“中方撤离”是在给菲律宾最后的一个台阶下，菲律宾没有下去，是否意味着菲律宾在黄岩岛问题上已经没有体面收场的机会了？

应该说是阿基诺三世没有收场的机会了。实际上，任何熟悉中国历史的人都知道，当年郑和下西洋，遇到小国滋事，把人家国王抓回北京，明朝政府都给人家体面的。包括菲律宾，历史上菲律宾什么时候国际地位最高，最有体面，也就是苏禄国王们和明朝交好的时候。

现在黄岩岛闹到这个地步，中国反正不会损失什么，我们对菲律宾根本就没有什么依赖，不管是原材料还是市场，菲律宾自己的出口和劳务输入是要出问题的。最后，国内政治力量和老百姓给不给阿基诺三世面子，那就很成问题了。

4、 中国一直强调不会打响南海第一枪，有观点认为，现在菲律宾的做法无异于对中国开枪，中国的子弹也该上膛了。您同意吗？

这个观点我同意，没有中国的同意，你把军事力量送进中国领土领海，这本身就是对中国的侵略了。所以，谈到这个问题，我倒希望阿基诺三世好好看看中国小说《水浒传》，里面杨志卖刀那段，琢磨琢磨泼皮牛二是怎么死的。阿基诺现在的表现看上去也是这么牛，其实也就是这么二。

5、 黄岩岛对峙短时间内可能不会平息。未来的走势方面，您赞成中国更强硬还是选择缓和事态？

真正缓和事态，那前提是要解决问题。而要解决问题，中国不强硬是不行的。1962年以后，中印边境的相对缓和平静，就是中国强硬的结果。当初如果不强硬，人家肯定还会干点偷偷摸摸的事。当然，中国强硬一些，对菲律宾是有好处的，能让菲律宾上下都成熟好多呢。



（转自CD---JCFERRET ）

That's how far 20 years of doing nothing goes for ya. Yan ang resulta ng AFP modernization natin. Magaling talaga.

In those 20 years, our government invests on hi-tech stealth technology para di mapansin ng mga leftist. Sa sobrang stealth, kahit sila hindi makita yung mga iyon. Pati pondo sa maintenance and acquisition di rin makita kasi nilagay sa stealth vault.:doh::doh::doh:

mga kababayan dyan pedenyo mapostangmapanatinsa karburoatpanatag paraisampal samgagago na nandon

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1491787


this is the product of eating too much fetuses :lol:

mga kababayan dyan pedenyo mapostangmapanatinsa karburoatpanatag paraisampal samgagago na nandon

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1491787


this is the product of eating too much fetuses :lol:

ah oh,revilo is there! :lol::lol::lol:

This post here is in the Chinese thread. It means "Sweep Scarborough, Attack Philippines"

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=91192218#post91192218


This post was made by Hidden Dragon (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/member.php?u=15341)

很典型的流氓政府的行為. a typical manner of a rogue state.

這個叫做"說謊不抸眼" (lying without battling an eyelash). All BS, lies and propaganda from a wannabe superpower, nothing else! And by the way who is escalating the situation now, the Philippines or China? From China's deployment of 30 ships there to Philippines 2??? Readers would be the judge. It's ironic China has been shouting diplomacy to the whole world and yet it is not doing any diplomatic act like bringing the matter to Int'l court. Instead, just like how a rogue state conduct it's business, it's using force there in the scarborough shoal by the display of it's mighty 30+ ships there in contrast to Philippines 2 and perhaps by this they think the Philippines will surrender. But alas! To everyone's surprise, in this almost 1 month stand off, the Philippines is still there standing stood and still, guarding our territory and not kotowing to any china's threats. So there you go mother fucker china is really pissed off now and want to sweep the poor Philippines.

ah oh,revilo is there! :lol::lol::lol:

sino yan? sige na post nyo na hindi ako marunong mag post ng pics eh. gusto ko lang isampal sa mga ogag don.

sino yan? sige na post nyo na hindi ako marunong mag post ng pics eh. gusto ko lang isampal sa mga ogag don.

the chicom who trolled in this thread around 3 weeks ago. invert "revilo"

the chicom who trolled in this thread around 3 weeks ago. invert "revilo"

ah ok hina ko sowee:lol: oo baka na preso na lang sya don ng mga mod nila:lol:

nakakainis mga post nila don :guns1:

mga kababayan dyan pedenyo mapostangmapanatinsa karburoatpanatag paraisampal samgagago na nandon

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1491787


this is the product of eating too much fetuses :lol:



Babahaha. Sana may magsipag dito na magtranslate para ipakita sa kNilA. A we are watching :)

the commies have short memories or they simply have very little world events and history in their country but an scripted and fake history taught in all levels of education in the country,..anyway if they want to validate the history they missed out, they can start the shooting war and let's see how they can make themselves a new ally to the Philippines, it's gonna be a painful process if they just read the history books,..

Ah the Pad Thais.

A split within ASEAN is already evident, with Cambodia, the current ASEAN chair, Laos, Myanmar and even Thailand, the US’ oldest ally in Asia, all adopting neutral or pro-China positions in the face of appeals for support from the Philippines. None of these four ASEAN countries have claims in the South China Sea and all regard China as a key trade, investment and tourism partner.
Following a recent visit by Thailand’s defence minister and all the service chiefs to China, the Bangkok Post quoted an unnamed high-ranking source in the defence ministry as saying that “under present circumstances, we have to stay closer to our relative (China) than the close friend (America) who is far away.”..


The pepper-eating surrender monkeys of Asia:lol::lol:
Too bad Papa Sugar already knows your true colors. They're just not telling ya:nuts:

Ah the Pad Thais.



The pepper-eating surrender monkeys of Asia:lol::lol:
Too bad Papa Sugar already knows your true colors. They're just not telling ya:nuts:

and that is shining through! :lol::lol:

let's abrogate one china policy and favor taiwan if the commies does not stop bullying the philippines!!! on the other hand, abrogate the VFA and the 1951 MDT if the US cannot help us during these times of bullying from the commies or if the commies start shooting at us and they just sit on the fence!!!better yet, let's start building a new alliance with countries supportive or with close ties and of same situation with us like vietnam and india, and source out defense alliance with the Russians,..

Hate to say it, but it looks scarborough shoal itself is lost.


I doubt this will actually escalate into war, but fact is china is using its larger navy to claim all the disputed areas. 2 vessels against 30 isnt gonna cut it.


Its only a matter of time before they go ahead and do the same thing in the rest of the sea.


All these asean countries which couldn't be interested to take a stand - well at least we get to eventually see china occupy their land as well lol.



Also, odd how china is accusing the philippines of escalating the situation, when they are the ones with 30 vessels in the area; as compared to just 2 :nuts:

isa lang solution jan, kargahan na ng chemical weapons:lol: yung dalawang barko at pag nag umpisa cla, i-detonate remotely on the event of a "broken arrow"!,..san pa cla pupulutin, buo nga mga barko nila ubus naman mga pirata!!!tas kuhanin nalang natin yung mga barko nila ng alang kalabanlaban,..

Ah the Pad Thais.



The pepper-eating surrender monkeys of Asia:lol::lol:
Too bad Papa Sugar already knows your true colors. They're just not telling ya:nuts:


Not surprising, this stuff is written in their history. Land of the free my ass. Hehehe

Ah the Pad Thais.



The pepper-eating surrender monkeys of Asia:lol::lol:
Too bad Papa Sugar already knows your true colors. They're just not telling ya:nuts:

this should not come as a surprise though; ASEAN actually has no use, and is more of a formality than anything else.

To be honest, it would have been nice to have their support, although I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make. Asean is not like the EU, where they actually are well integrated and can guarantee each other's sovereignty.

As I said about a week ago, the only country in asean that would have an interest in this is vietnam, and even they probably only care about their claim which afaik does not include scarborough.

In a few years, we might see malaysia and brunei's waters getting violated, but of course it will be too late by then to do anything :lol:



My opinion is this: Enough with appealing for help - we have a potential US guarantee, and we shouldn't expect others to support our claims - if they choose to ignore us, then we have to accept it and should they ever face a similar situation in the future, we will have to kindly extend the same courtesy. As for scarborough, it is probably a lost cause now - too many chinese vessels - i would honestly just pull back and not give them an excuse to start anything. Start concentrating on building up the spratlys defense so we can at least extract some of the resources in the sea.

Let us not wait for the real war to occur. Filipinos shoud unite now. OFW's, locals, filipinos in diaspora... Start the war bonds now! No time for procastination nor complacency. As soon as this thing get started I will contribute! Spread the word until it reaches our government!

Scarborough standoff: China - 30 vessels; Philippines - 2...

hiyang hiya naman kami sa inyo China, at kami pa ang pagsabihan na "Stop escalating the disputes." yung mga nasa malacanang diyan 3 pa yun public relations secretary gamitin nyo naman yung galing nyo sa PR at imedia brigade ang China, yun nalang ang sandata natin...

A live media coverage is needed to counter chinese lies

this should not come as a surprise though; ASEAN actually has no use, and is more of a formality than anything else.

To be honest, it would have been nice to have their support, although I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make. Asean is not like the EU, where they actually are well integrated and can guarantee each other's sovereignty.

As I said about a week ago, the only country in asean that would have an interest in this is vietnam, and even they probably only care about their claim which afaik does not include scarborough.

In a few years, we might see malaysia and brunei's waters getting violated, but of course it will be too late by then to do anything :lol:



My opinion is this: Enough with appealing for help - we have a potential US guarantee, and we shouldn't expect others to support our claims - if they choose to ignore us, then we have to accept it and should they ever face a similar situation in the future, we will have to kindly extend the same courtesy. As for scarborough, it is probably a lost cause now - too many chinese vessels - i would honestly just pull back and not give them an excuse to start anything. Start concentrating on building up the spratlys defense so we can at least extract some of the resources in the sea.

I beg to disagree on pulling out our vessels. It is already late to do that. Let us stand our ground and ready for whatever consequences. Our forefathers bled for this country of ours. Let us do the same if reality calls for it.

A live media coverage is needed to counter chinese lies

The problem with live media coverage is that china will view it as escalating the situation.



While i disagree with what china is doing, i think the philippines has made several mistakes here

a) Declaring intent to arrest the fishermen last month was, in my opinion, unnecessary. Our response should have been to merely send a coast guard vessel and encourage more fishermen to fish there. Declaring the intent to arrest was viewed as harassment by the chinese and now they have 30 vessels there, and have effectively taken the shoal by force. Had we not outright made a declaration, i don't think it would have come to this - whereas it was disputed before, scarborough is now effectively chinese.

b) Asking for help - I dont see anything wrong with going to the US to reaffirm the mutual defense pact - but lobbying for support from other asean countries is escalating the situation in a way. I think this lobbying for support makes the philippines appear weak and furthermore, it is futile - if asean really cared about it, they would have done something about it 10-15 years ago. We shouldn't depend on them.

c) I think demonstrations are also a bad idea. Its clear as day that china does not care at all about what other people think about their claim. Rather than waste energy on a protest, i think we'd be better off planning what can be done to secure as much of the resources in the sea as possible.

I beg to disagree on pulling out our vessels. It is already late to do that. Let us stand our ground and ready for whatever consequences. Our forefathers bled for this country of ours. Let us do the same if reality calls for it.

Wala nang bawian

I beg to disagree on pulling out our vessels. It is already late to do that. Let us stand our ground and ready for whatever consequences. Our forefathers bled for this country of ours. Let us do the same if reality calls for it.


I can undersstand your viewpoint - but is it worth risking a conflict over a rock in the middle of the sea?

Ever since this standoff began - china has sent loads of vessels, all we have done is sit there with the same 2 vessels - not because we want to, but because there is nothing more we can do.

What are the 2 vessels really going to do there? If we had more fishermen, there would be a point - but our fishermen are clearly worried about the situation and arn't entirely confident in the coast guard's ability to guarantee their safety.


The best case scenario is that they sit there and do nothing.

The worst case is that all the crew lose their lives over a rock.

I can undersstand your viewpoint - but is it worth risking a conflict over a rock in the middle of the sea?

Ever since this standoff began - china has sent loads of vessels, all we have done is sit there with the same 2 vessels - not because we want to, but because there is nothing more we can do.

What are the 2 vessels really going to do there? If we had more fishermen, there would be a point - but our fishermen are clearly worried about the situation and arn't entirely confident in the coast guard's ability to guarantee their safety.


The best case scenario is that they sit there and do nothing.

The worst case is that all the crew lose their lives over a rock.


In some sense, it does. At least we are sending the message that china cant just get what it wants and it some sense it is indeed a wake up call. You see when we lost the mischief reef, we did nothing. We even almost lost the scarborough in 1997. It also buys us time to upgrade our defenses and gather international empathy.

This "war" is not merely military. It is much so political and psychological. Standing up to china with just 2 ships has psychological effects on the mainland people. They will start to wonder why the ccp is being "held up" by a teeny weeny country. Our Presence will lead to their own self destruction. In pdff, these was a translated title where the chinese media said we already raised the white flag. Hahaha.

Let us remember the psychological effects of the vietnam war to the americans. The vietnamese casualties were in millions while the american casualties were in the tens of thousands, but guess who had to pull out. The vietnam conflict deeply affected the american psyche.:)

Wala nang bawian

Nabs, your favorite Manila Standard author is being parroted by Chinese media.
Philippine President Aquino plays tough over China's Huangyan Island to revive popularity: author



English.news.cn (http://english.news.cn/) 2012-05-09 17:18:03 http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/static/imgs/bigphoto_tit1_b.gif (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/rss/index.htm) http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/static/imgs/bigphoto_tit2_b.gif (english@xinhuanet.com) http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/static/imgs/bigphoto_tit3_b.gif http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/static/imgs/bigphoto_tit4_b.gif (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/indepth/2012-05/09/c_131577746.htm#) http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/static/imgs/bigphoto_tit6_b.gif http://www.xinhuanet.com/english2010/static/imgs/t+.gif (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/indepth/2012-05/09/c_131577746.htm#)http://www.xinhuanet.com/english2010/static/imgs/t-.gif (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/indepth/2012-05/09/c_131577746.htm#) MANILA, May 9 (Xinhua) -- The Philippines' tough stance in its recent confrontation with China over Huangyan Island is an attempt by the Aquino administration to revive its dwindling popularity, author Victor N. Arches II told Xinhua Wednesday.

:nuts::lol:
Looks like SkyMasters won't be fiction after all. There's a Red carpet welcome already waiting for Chicoms.:lol:

Nabs, your favorite Manila Standard author is being parroted by Chinese media.


:nuts::lol:
Looks like SkyMasters won't be fiction after all. There's a Red carpet welcome already waiting for Chicoms.:lol:




Reviveits dwindling popularity? They smoking something... No maybe they're taking morphine? Hehehehe

I can undersstand your viewpoint - but is it worth risking a conflict over a rock in the middle of the sea?

Ever since this standoff began - china has sent loads of vessels, all we have done is sit there with the same 2 vessels - not because we want to, but because there is nothing more we can do.

What are the 2 vessels really going to do there? If we had more fishermen, there would be a point - but our fishermen are clearly worried about the situation and arn't entirely confident in the coast guard's ability to guarantee their safety.


The best case scenario is that they sit there and do nothing.

The worst case is that all the crew lose their lives over a rock.

Thanks for understanding my view. To answer your question, Yes it is. Every rock on that area is worth fighting for. If China will be able to capture that area, they for sure will create structures there and they can see Manila and any part of the country by just looking at their windows. Second, they will use that structure as jump off point in invading other areas in WPS. Third, they will have control over that busy sealane and can effectively manipulate and control smuggling and drug trafficking.

If Australia is intelligent enough, they should realized by now that they will be a missile away if that area is captured by China. I know you might think that i am delusional but lets just wait and see.

Interesting :lol:

lW7zYKaDwvg

This guy is talking a lot of nonsense and full of sh*t.

First the sending and flooding the U.S. a lot of fake name brand clothings.
-China do not have food program which guaranty that all its citizen had available food on the table.
-Why are the suppressing the freedom of information to the general and freedom of speech to the public.
-Their military personnel are working like and treated like working in a sweat shop. :ohno: :bash: :bash: :bash:

In some sense, it does. At least we are sending the message that china cant just get what it wants and it some sense it is indeed a wake up call. You see when we lost the mischief reef, we did nothing. We even almost lost the scarborough in 1997. It also buys us time to upgrade our defenses and gather international empathy.

This "war" is not merely military. It is much so political and psychological. Standing up to china with just 2 ships has psychological effects on the mainland people. They will start to wonder why the ccp is being "held up" by a teeny weeny country. Our Presence will lead to their own self destruction. In pdff, these was a translated title where the chinese media said we already raised the white flag. Hahaha.

Yes, the problem is that we have already lost scarborough.

The chinese have 30 vessels there and have effectively barred filipino fishermen from entering, whereas they now have dozens of fishing boats.
We can claim it all we want, and I support our case - but the matter of fact is that they are now the ones enforcing the area.

Last week, i advocated sending more fishermen there to create a large presence, but it looks like the chinse have beat us to it.

Fishermen are afraid to go there- we have 2 vessels that will be helplessly outnumbered should anything transpire.

What exactly is the point of keeping the 2 CG vessels there? They would be better used in other areas like the spratlys where i think we should start creating a presence to prevent situations like this from occuring again.

Thanks for understanding my view. To answer your question, Yes it is. Every rock on that area is worth fighting for. If China will be able to capture that area, they for sure will create structures there and they can see Manila and any part of the country by just looking at their windows. Second, they will use that structure as jump off point in invading other areas in WPS. Third, they will have control over that busy sealane and can effectively manipulate and control smuggling and drug trafficking.

But its no longer a matter of "if"- they already have captured the area. I'm fully aware of the consequences, but I think it might be too late to do anything about it.

Do you think keeping 2 vessels there is going to prevent them from doing what they want? when they have 30 ships on their side?


I'm afraid scarborough itself is a lost cause, but not the entire sea - i think we can do something in the spratlys. start fishing, building fortifcations etc... we should at least be able to effectively control the areas closest to the philippines further south.

Maghanda na tayo sa impending chinese invasion dito sa atin. It's every man for it himself dahil wala tayong maasahan sa mga tongressman at iba pang mga pulpolitiko natin..

Yes, the problem is that we have already lost scarborough.

The chinese have 30 vessels there and have effectively barred filipino fishermen from entering, whereas they now have dozens of fishing boats.
We can claim it all we want, and I support our case - but the matter of fact is that they are now the ones enforcing the area.

Last week, i advocated sending more fishermen there to create a large presence, but it looks like the chinse have beat us to it.

Fishermen are afraid to go there- we have 2 vessels that will be helplessly outnumbered should anything transpire.

What exactly is the point of keeping the 2 CG vessels there? They would be better used in other areas like the spratlys where i think we should start creating a presence to prevent situations like this from occuring again.

Psychological. It "may" look like lost cause at the moment to us, but in the eyes of the Chinese, it is their government that is weak (keep in mind that losing face in East Asian culture is MUCH MORE of a big deal than in our culture). Of course, they cannot shoot at us because that will trigger international opinion against China and there is still a possibility that the US and other countries will come to our aid.

We still have our aces -- the ITLOS and international opinion. Actually, I think just having 2 CG vessel there is a good strategy. We are at least shaping world opinion that China is an aggressor. What we need to do is cajole the local and international media to do a live coverage. The Chinese patience is wearing thin and they are almost close to doing something. You see, in their news we already raised the white flag. But our CG is still there.


I can see your hopelessness in Scarborough but my opinion if we back out of Scarborough now, it will make more China assertive, aggressive and arrogant (AAA!).

Maghanda na tayo sa impending chinese invasion dito sa atin. It's every man for it himself dahil wala tayong maasahan sa mga tongressman at iba pang mga pulpolitiko natin..

Hasain nyo na mga bolo ng lolo nyo na nangangalawang :lol::lol::lol:

^^O kaya contacting your friendly NPA arms dealer :lol:

^^O kaya contacting your friendly NPA arms dealer :lol:

Dapat ipadala si Joma Sison sa scarborough. Hehehe. Para pagnainis mga instik, sya ang paputukan :lol::lol::lol: eh di solb tayo

Hasain nyo na mga bolo ng lolo nyo na nangangalawang :lol::lol::lol:

Just ignore that toyman kid. He doesn't know what he is talking about. He is not thinking about the consequences.

Just ignore that toyman kid. He doesn't know what he is talking about. He is not thinking about the consequences.

To think of it, 30 Chinese vessels is so agitated by two coast guard ships that is probably bereft of armaments? :lol: The Chinese care more about losing face than the truth. Now, this is where we can "assault" them. Have the 2 CG there for months if they want.

As Askal said in the past thread it's a "pissing of game". And looks like China is in the verge of blinking :lol::lol::lol:

Noynoying seem to be effective against them. Noynoying lang ginagawa natin ha.

US pledged to protect PH from attacks in South China Sea, says Gazmin (http://www.interaksyon.com/article/31480/us-pledged-to-protect-ph-from-attacks-in-south-china-sea-says-gazmin)

MANILA, Philippines - The Philippines said Wednesday the United States had pledged to protect it from attacks in the South China Sea, a day after China issued a warning over a territorial row in the waters.

Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said he had received the assurances during talks in Washington last week in which the Philippines' increasingly tense dispute with China over rival claims to a shoal in the sea were discussed.

Gazmin said US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta stressed they were not taking sides in the dispute, but they assured the Philippines the United States would honor a 1951 mutual defence treaty.

"It includes armed attack... (on) island territories in the Pacific (region)," Gazmin said, citing conditions for the allies coming to each other's aid.

In answer to a question about the dispute with China over Scarborough Shoal, Gazmin said he had interpreted remarks by Clinton to mean the United States would protect the Philippines from any attack in the South China Sea.

"Overall, with these statements, they cover our problem in the West Philippine Sea," he said, using the Philippine name for the waters.

China and the Philippines have had vessels stationed at Scarborough Shoal for more than a month in an effort to assert their sovereignty over the area.

China claims virtually all of the South China Sea as its own, even waters close to the coasts of other Asian countries.

The Philippines insists it has sovereignty over the shoal because it falls within its 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone.

The shoal sits about 230 kilometres (140 miles) from the Philippines' main island of Luzon and 1,200 kilometres northwest from the nearest major Chinese land mass, according to Filipino navy maps.

Taiwan, Brunei, Vietnam and Malaysia also claim parts of the South China, which is believed to sit atop vast oil and gas resources, making the area one of Asia's potential military flashpoints.

China warned on Tuesday it was prepared for "any escalation" in the dispute with the Philippines, which followed an editorial in a newspaper run by the ruling Communist Party calling for a small-scale war to end the stand-off.

Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario also issued a statement on Wednesday saying that Clinton and Panetta had reaffirmed during the Washington talks US commitment to the mutual defence treaty with the Philippines.

You know what I think? If ever the US decides to respond, looks like we will have more problems as regards to OUR constitution than the US constitution. The War powers acts provide that the US president can send troops for 60 days without Congressional approval. If I am not mistaken, our constitution prohibits foreign troops engaging in offensive combat (troops not defensing THEMSELVES)

Psychological. It "may" look like lost cause at the moment to us, but in the eyes of the Chinese, it is their government that is weak (keep in mind that losing face in East Asian culture is MUCH MORE of a big deal than in our culture). Of course, they cannot shoot at us because that will trigger international opinion against China and there is still a possibility that the US and other countries will come to our aid.

We still have our aces -- the ITLOS and international opinion. Actually, I think just having 2 CG vessel there is a good strategy. We are at least shaping world opinion that China is an aggressor. What we need to do is cajole the local and international media to do a live coverage. The Chinese patience is wearing thin and they are almost close to doing something. You see, in their news we already raised the white flag. But our CG is still there.


I can see your hopelessness in Scarborough but my opinion if we back out of Scarborough now, it will make more China assertive, aggressive and arrogant (AAA!).

Good points, but my main concerns are

Even if the ITLOS rules in our favor, is China going to pay any attention to the verdict? I think not, the very fact that they are even claiming something within another country's EEZ shows how much disregard they have for international law. Also, what about the chance that the ITLOS actually rules against our claim? We would be royally screwed if that happened lol.

Second, as you mentioned, China might be close to doing something. But what is that "something"?

Last, you also mention that backing out will make china more AAA - I agree that this is something that needs to be stopped. I guess we just have different solutions. The way I see it, China has already been AAA in sending its 30 vessels to scarborough,and all this has happened right in front of the 2 CG ships which have been able to do nothing about it. I think looking further south and carrying out more activities there is the best thing to do, if we can be the ones with 40 ships and fortifications, perhaps china will be more hesitant to do anything there. Besides, aren't all the resources further south?

I dont think nobody would check the constitution we are already engaging Chicoms at all fronts. I for myself will mind the chinese attacking and save the trouble of minding the constitution for the pigs in the government.

But yeah i would agree that it is really conflicting.

Good points, but my main concerns are

Even if the ITLOS rules in our favor, is China going to pay any attention to the verdict? I think not, the very fact that they are even claiming something within another country's EEZ shows how much disregard they have for international law. Also, what about the chance that the ITLOS actually rules against our claim? We would be royally screwed if that happened lol.

Second, as you mentioned, China might be close to doing something. But what is that "something"?

Last, you also mention that backing out will make china more AAA - I agree that this is something that needs to be stopped. I guess we just have different solutions. The way I see it, China has already been AAA in sending its 30 vessels to scarborough,and all this has happened right in front of the 2 CG ships which have been able to do nothing about it. I think looking further south and carrying out more activities there is the best thing to do, if we can be the ones with 40 ships and fortifications, perhaps china will be more hesitant to do anything there. Besides, aren't all the resources further south?

I dont see that we lost a rock so far. Whatever ITLOS decided should be respected by the parties involved or else ironfist will be served hot and smoking.

Prepare yourself in fighting these invaders and save your questions later.

Just ignore that toyman kid. He doesn't know what he is talking about. He is not thinking about the consequences.

the consequences of what exactly?

What can they build on a bunch of rocks?

And even if they can build what you claim - what exactly are we going to do about it now? You suggest sending the 2 cg ships to take out their 30?

I dont see that we lost a rock so far. Whatever ITLOS decided should be respected by the parties involved or else ironfist will be served hot and smoking.

Prepare yourself in fighting these invaders and save your questions later.

how do you not see it as a loss, when their fishermen are there doing what they want, and our fishermen are afraid to enter?

is our coast guard preventing them from doing anything now? Are you aware that fighting these invaders, will most likely result in the loss of 2 ships of an already depleted and weak navy?

the consequences of what exactly?

What can they build on a bunch of rocks?

And even if they can build what you claim - what exactly are we going to do about it now? You suggest sending the 2 cg ships to take out their 30?

What can they build on a bunch of rocks? You can building something like MOA.

what exactly are we going to do about it now? Show your love to your country and gather all your courage for tomorrow you might be fighting these insects.

You suggest sending the 2 cg ships to take out their 30? I dont think he suggested it. Its the government.

how do you not see it as a loss, when their fishermen are there doing what they want, and our fishermen are afraid to enter?

is our coast guard preventing them from doing anything now? Are you aware that fighting these invaders, will most likely result in the loss of 2 ships of an already depleted and weak navy?

Would you mind if i asked you what year are you born? I hope you wont mind answering.

Good points, but my main concerns are

Even if the ITLOS rules in our favor, is China going to pay any attention to the verdict? I think not, the very fact that they are even claiming something within another country's EEZ shows how much disregard they have for international law. Also, what about the chance that the ITLOS actually rules against our claim? We would be royally screwed if that happened lol.

Second, as you mentioned, China might be close to doing something. But what is that "something"?

Last, you also mention that backing out will make china more AAA - I agree that this is something that needs to be stopped. I guess we just have different solutions. The way I see it, China has already been AAA in sending its 30 vessels to scarborough,and all this has happened right in front of the 2 CG ships which have been able to do nothing about it. I think looking further south and carrying out more activities there is the best thing to do, if we can be the ones with 40 ships and fortifications, perhaps china will be more hesitant to do anything there. Besides, aren't all the resources further south?

Point 1: ITLOS. I agree, I think I mentioned it here before about that. Will China abide by the rules? That is why in my opinion, the status quo is actually buying us more time to upgrade and hopefully, our government will realize that it has to create an alliance with countries that have the same problem with China. Whether we admit it or not, we need to CONTAIN China. I think we should treat the ITLOS are merely buying us time for upgrade and alliances not the "ultimate resolution". The ITLOS was created for countries with sane leadership, not with the kind of leadership that smokes opium :lol::lol:

Point 2: That something can be anything to "punish us". It can either be military action, economic sanction of they will blockade the WPS. I think what we should worry about is the economic sanction because that is something that the international community cannot respond to in our aid. We need to stop relying on China for investment and market for our exports.

I think our CG doing "nothing" is actually agitating China and making her look weak among her constituents. At least, if we see how the Chinese think, that is good news to us despite the term noynoying does not seem appealing to us. But, hey, it's working against the Chinese. Again, remember how they value the "face".

If we attack them, we lose. We are the aggressor and the sympathy is with China. If we withdraw, we lose. We confirm not only do they own Scarborough but also the Spratlys.

Our best option is our CG "noynoying" them because it is making it look that China is weak among her citizens. :lol::lol::lol:

if only we retained to be a super power next to japan decades ago, china will not mind entering our EEZ, but past is past and we the filipino people have a saying "nandyan na yan eh wala na tayong magagawa." sa ganyan style ng China sending more vessels and they know the storm season is near, they will surely build a FISHERMANS RESTING PLACE kuno a.k.a. MMILITARY BUNKERS just like there strategy on the Mischief Reef case, where we the Philippines protested and nothing happened and ended up being laugh by all nations...

:) The waves there are stubborn during storm. :) If they do not secure their ships properly, it would end up visiting the corals down below.

:) The waves there are stubborn during storm. :) If they do not secure their ships properly, it would end up visiting the corals down below.

Which makes me think, what will they do if the weather turns bad? Their home is like 400 miles away, and we're just in shores.

They might suffer the fate of the invading Mongols when they were Japan-bound :lol::lol::lol:

When I was in Vigan several years ago, it was very windy in January even if the weather is nice. What more if the weather is bad in the stormy days :lol:?

:) The waves there are stubborn during storm. :) If they do not secure their ships properly, it would end up visiting the corals down below.

yan nga yun strategy nila sa mischeef reef, In 1994, the PRC built initial structures on stilts here while the Philippine Navy was not patrolling the area due to a monsoon season. Since the reef is just 130 miles (209 km) away from Palawan, well inside the Philippines' EEZ, the Philippines immediately protested this action. However, China rejected the protest and stressed that the structures were shelter for fishermen. In 1999, another wave of protests from Manila occurred when China added more structures to Mischief Reef which resembled military installations more closely than shelters for fishermen.

sa nakikita kong actions nila ngayon ndi na nila yan isusuko at ggmitin nila yun weather dahil na rin sa advance ung mga maritime ships nila kaya nila tumagal dun...:ohno::ohno::ohno:

Point 1: ITLOS. I agree, I think I mentioned it here before about that. Will China abide by the rules? That is why in my opinion, the status quo is actually buying us more time to upgrade and hopefully, our government will realize that it has to create an alliance with countries that have the same problem with China. Whether we admit it or not, we need to CONTAIN China. I think we should treat the ITLOS are merely buying us time for upgrade and alliances not the "ultimate resolution". The ITLOS was created for countries with sane leadership, not with the kind of leadership that smokes opium :lol::lol:

now we're getting somewhere. But who else has problems with china? Vietnam is my only guess. And while it would certainly be an improvemet, can vietnam and philippines alone contain china?

Point 2: That something can be anything to "punish us". It can either be military action, economic sanction of they will blockade the WPS. I think what we should worry about is the economic sanction because that is something that the international community cannot respond to in our aid. We need to stop relying on China for investment and market for our exports.

Agreed

I think our CG doing "nothing" is actually agitating China and making her look weak among her constituents. At least, if we see how the Chinese think, that is good news to us despite the term noynoying does not seem appealing to us. But, hey, it's working against the Chinese. Again, remember how they value the "face".

True, I could see that, but at the same time its also risking the possibility of china deciding to sink them.

If we attack them, we lose. We are the aggressor and the sympathy is with China. If we withdraw, we lose. We confirm not only do they own Scarborough but also the Spratlys.

Our best option is our CG "noynoying" them because it is making it look that China is weak among her citizens. :lol::lol::lol:

well i still think if we do what they just did at scarborough, in the spratlys it could have a similar effect on what is happening to our fishers now. its worth a try i think

yan nga yun strategy nila sa mischeef reef, In 1994, the PRC built initial structures on stilts here while the Philippine Navy was not patrolling the area due to a monsoon season. Since the reef is just 130 miles (209 km) away from Palawan, well inside the Philippines' EEZ, the Philippines immediately protested this action. However, China rejected the protest and stressed that the structures were shelter for fishermen. In 1999, another wave of protests from Manila occurred when China added more structures to Mischief Reef which resembled military installations more closely than shelters for fishermen.

sa nakikita kong actions nila ngayon ndi na nila yan isusuko at ggmitin nila yun weather dahil na rin sa advance ung mga maritime ships nila kaya nila tumagal dun...:ohno::ohno::ohno:

it is not that easy to build structure there, the water is deep. It will be cleaned by the waves as they try to build it but no one knows. Chinese are very persisting. Yeah if they succeed on building structures there and we just watch them as they build then we are doomed.

if only we retained to be a super power next to japan decades ago, china will not mind entering our EEZ, but past is past and we the filipino people have a saying "nandyan na yan eh wala na tayong magagawa." sa ganyan style ng China sending more vessels and they know the storm season is near, they will surely build a FISHERMANS RESTING PLACE kuno a.k.a. MMILITARY BUNKERS just like there strategy on the Mischief Reef case, where we the Philippines protested and nothing happened and ended up being laugh by all nations...

china is just picking on the philippnes because its weak. they wouldnt dare try this on their disputes with india or russia.

now we're getting somewhere. But who else has problems with china? Vietnam is my only guess. And while it would certainly be an improvemet, can vietnam and philippines alone contain china?



Agreed



True, I could see that, but at the same time its also risking the possibility of china deciding to sink them.



well i still think if we do what they just did at scarborough, in the spratlys it could have a similar effect on what is happening to our fishers now. its worth a try i think

India, Vietnam, Japan and Korea... India is a good potential ally. They are cool with Russia and the US and they just launched their missile that made Beijing say that they are "friends" with India :lol:. But India is largely concerned with China esp that China is aiding its archenemy -- Pakistan. China has been increasingly aggressive too in South Korea and Japan. And of course, Vietnam.


If China sinks our CG, that could trigger the MDT. I have not read the whole thing yet but I read someone post that sinking/attacking our vessels is included in the MDT. China will risk not only the US responding. Baka makisawsaw din ang Aussies and probably Singaporeans (known traditional US allies)

china is just picking on the philippnes because its weak. they wouldnt dare try this on their disputes with india or russia.

I think we caught them by surprise because rather than our usually passive responses in the past, nakipag titigan tayo sa kanila and it seems to be irking them :lol::lol::lol:

It's a pissing off game as Askal said. :lol:

now we're getting somewhere. But who else has problems with china? Vietnam is my only guess. And while it would certainly be an improvemet, can vietnam and philippines alone contain china?

china is just picking on the philippnes because its weak. they wouldnt dare try this on their disputes with india or russia.

:ohno::ohno:

china is just picking on the philippnes because its weak. they wouldnt dare try this on their disputes with india or russia.

^^^^ i agree, ang mali ni Pnoy ndi nya ginagamit yun kasabihan na "make your enemies more closer." in that case sumipsip ka lang sa China like what Arroyo do but dont sell our sovereignty favor for more chinese company investments, make MOA on different sectors of both nations, we cant afford to be in war...

:ohno::ohno:

what is your point? that i found the answer to my own question?


in reality though, the fact that india is big enough to defend itself against china means that they don't necessarily have problems directly with china. Their problem with china is indirectly through pakistan


While a strategic alliance with india is ideal for us , what exactly is in it for the indians?


Back to the original point though, what is a deal that can be struck in reality? I think vietnam is the only option as they are the only other country china is picking on as well.

it is not that easy to build structure there, the water is deep. It will be cleaned by the waves as they try to build it but no one knows. Chinese are very persisting. Yeah if they succeed on building structures there and we just watch them as they build then we are doomed.

well if it is so difficult to build structures there, why are you worried about them building MOA-like buildings?

:ohno::ohno:

what is your point? that i found the answer to my own question?


in reality though, the fact that india is big enough to defend itself against china means that they don't necessarily have problems directly with china. Their problem with china is indirectly through pakistan


While a strategic alliance with india is ideal for us , what exactly is in it for the indians?


Back to the original point though, what is a deal that can be struck in reality? I think vietnam is the only option as they are the only other country china is picking on as well.

If you have problems whether you are big or not, you still have problems.

On my personal opinion, i dont think this is the time that we depend on our allies. I agree with setting up alliances with other countries but dont you think its late already? At this point, we are like a man with a disease. Nobody would like to make contact with us. Let us work on our own until they realized that we are worthy being an ally.

what is your point? that i found the answer to my own question?


in reality though, the fact that india is big enough to defend itself against china means that they don't necessarily have problems directly with china. Their problem with china is indirectly through pakistan


While a strategic alliance with india is ideal for us , what exactly is in it for the indians?


Back to the original point though, what is a deal that can be struck in reality? I think vietnam is the only option as they are the only other country china is picking on as well.

China and India have border issues still and the China-Pakistan relations is really worrying India

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2012/03/2012358105253868.html

Also, India has a look East policy. That is, look ASEAN. It is also in the interest of India to keep the WPS open and owned by the international community.

Japan and South Korea has had increasing Chinese incursions in the past two years.

Vietnam is not the only option but one of the options

If China controls the WPS, that will cut off Korea and Japan to much of the world. It will be in their interest to keep it open and be "international property".

well if it is so difficult to build structures there, why are you worried about them building MOA-like buildings?

:ohno::ohno:

Dont twist it man. You will be missing the point. I know you know the difference right?:ohno:

Dont twist it man. You will be missing the point. I know you know the difference right?:ohno:

you twisted first with your silly remarks ;

of course, when you think of it like that, every country in the world will probably have a problem with china.


when i mentioned countries with other problems with china, i refer specifcally to problems like the philippines - which is not merely a border dispute, but china aggressively asserting its claims - who else is there besides vietnam?

you twisted first with your silly remarks ;

of course, when you think of it like that, every country in the world will probably have a problem with china.


when i mentioned countries with other problems with china, i refer specifcally to problems like the philippines - which is not merely a border dispute, but china aggressively asserting its claims - who else is there besides vietnam?

You don't have to limit yourself to the WPS dispute. There are other countries there that are increasingly worried about China's aggressiveness. Japan and South Korea has increasingly the same problem.

Edit: Although territorial at its upper layer, the WPS dispute is largely geopolitical.

China and India have border issues still and the China-Pakistan relations is really worrying India

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2012/03/2012358105253868.html

Also, India has a look East policy. That is, look ASEAN. It is also in the interest of India to keep the WPS open and owned by the international community.

Japan and South Korea has had increasing Chinese incursions in the past two years.

Vietnam is not the only option but one of the options

If China controls the WPS, that will cut off Korea and Japan to much of the world. It will be in their interest to keep it open and be "international property".


In theory this sounds correct, but my worry is this:

If japan and korea were really worried about the situation, i think they'd have done something long ago - this is not new problem, and the fact that other countries have not gotten involved leads me to beileve we are in this alone.


India does have problems with china - but not in the same way as us. Im sure india is too preoccupied with pakistan [just as china wants] to seriously involve itself elsewhere.

Besides, a defense treaty with india means we would have to help them with pakistan - are we even capable of that? From india's perspective they probably wont find us of much use in that regard

Oh great. By doing so you miss the whole point.

OK here, it is,


China and India have border issues still and the China-Pakistan relations is really worrying India

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/...105253868.html

Also, India has a look East policy. That is, look ASEAN. It is also in the interest of India to keep the WPS open and owned by the international community.

Japan and South Korea has had increasing Chinese incursions in the past two years.

Vietnam is not the only option but one of the options

If China controls the WPS, that will cut off Korea and Japan to much of the world. It will be in their interest to keep it open and be "international property".

Aside from the Philippines and Vietnam. Japan is beefing up its defense to counter China

http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defensenews.jsp?catid=12&id=5329

You don't have to limit yourself to the WPS dispute. There are other countries there that are increasingly worried about China's aggressiveness. Japan and South Korea has increasingly the same problem.

Im pretty sure japan and SK are fully aware of the situation and have been so for the last decade - and have happily stood by and done nothing. Japan and SK, i dont believe it is in their interest to anger china because they both have big stakes and investments in china, if im not mistaken.


Although you may be correct, im not too sure of the news tthere, has china been aggressively claiming disputed islands in between them?


Besides, we cant even get help from ASEAN.

In theory this sounds correct, but my worry is this:

If japan and korea were really worried about the situation, i think they'd have done something long ago - this is not new problem, and the fact that other countries have not gotten involved leads me to beileve we are in this alone.


India does have problems with china - but not in the same way as us. Im sure india is too preoccupied with pakistan [just as china wants] to seriously involve itself elsewhere.

Besides, a defense treaty with india means we would have to help them with pakistan - are we even capable of that? From india's perspective they probably wont find us of much use in that regard

Japan, you have to understand is constrained by their constitution as a result of their defeat in WW2. They are only allowed self defense. But they have been beefing up lately

http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defensenews.jsp?catid=12&id=5329

South Korea:
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2012/01/02/2012010201012.html

Also, we do not have to send troops to Pakistan to have an "exchange" with India. More port access and economic trade deals, and perhaps, us buying from them would be agreeable.

Also, not one country will admit it, the Chinese AAA has sparked some mini cold war in the region. It will be just a matter of time when these countries will think of having alliances amid the growing Chinese arrogance.

ASEAN is a big joke, plastican lang yung mga nation dyan, kasi nga naman lahat eh nasa emerging market category kaya lahat tahimik at nagpapaka neutral/sipsip sa China dahil sa laki ng investment prospect nito...

Japan, you have to understand is constrained by their constitution as a result of their defeat in WW2. They are only allowed self defense. But they have been beefing up lately

http://www.defenseworld.net/go/defensenews.jsp?catid=12&id=5329

South Korea:
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2012/01/02/2012010201012.html

Also, we do not have to send troops to Pakistan to have an "exchange" with India. More port access and economic trade deals, and perhaps, us buying from them would be agreeable.

Also, not one country will admit it, the Chinese AAA has sparked some mini cold war in the region. It will be just a matter of time when these countries will think of having alliances amid the growing Chinese arrogance.



Japan and South korea yes, but i get the impression that they are of course more concerned about what china can do to them than what china can do elsewhere. As in, i dont think they would actually risk giving a guarantee or anything to the phlippines - i can imagine they might guarantee each other but thats not going to cause them to intervene in our problems.If they were generally concerned about WPS, im sure they'd be more active than they are now. At the moment, the only 3 countries which really care are china, vietnam and the philippines ...and perhaps one day malaysia, brunei and the rest of ASEan :lol:


I still think the only alliance that would be of mutual benefit would vietnam, but even then i have doubts, because we of course have overlapping claims with them.

Japan and South korea yes, but i get the impression that they are of course more concerned about what china can do to them than what china can do elsewhere. As in, i dont think they would actually risk giving a guarantee or anything to the phlippines - i can imagine they might guarantee each other but thats not going to cause them to intervene in our problems.If they were generally concerned about WPS, im sure they'd be more active than they are now. At the moment, the only 3 countries which really care are china, vietnam and the philippines ...and perhaps one day malaysia, brunei and the rest of ASEan :lol:

I still think the only alliance that would be of mutual benefit would vietnam, but even then i have doubts, because we of course have overlapping claims with them.

If we will come near them, it is not impossible. Not sure about japan. It's complicated due to their constitution, but it is possible with South Korea. In the last Balikatan, SK and Japan were "observers". Also, there is a pending ratification in the Senate as regards to a Philippine-Australia VFA. Australia, too is a possible ally. They're the ones who proposed the SOVFA...

The problems with Japan and SK is as regards to the East Sea and Sea of Japan. But if leaders of these countries will come together, it is possible. The problem with our government, nakadikit lang sa US when we have possibilities of allies other than the US.

At this current tension with China, now is the perfect time to rethink this

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/68194/news/nation/defense-chief-urges-ratification-of-sofa-with-australia

Besides, Australia is just south of Indonesia

the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force P-3C patrol aircraft in the 650 km southwest of Okinawa shooting amphibious vessel formation.

our reporter Liu Hu

Japanese side said five Chinese warships, “traveling in the island of Okinawa, about 650 kilometers southwest of the waters south, heading directly at the Pacific direction”. South, driving the Chinese warships will be possible to enter the Philippine Sea. In addition, China’s entry into the naval fleet of the Pacific training for the first time to join the 071 the most advanced amphibious dock landing ship, so that the formation is more like an actual type of small amphibious landing fleet.

http://www.9abc.net/index.php/archives/78574

after 20 yrs without modernization, ngayon tayo mag hahabol, kung kelan mahigpit na ang competensya,. sana walang mangyaring masama between us and china

the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force P-3C patrol aircraft in the 650 km southwest of Okinawa shooting amphibious vessel formation.

our reporter Liu Hu

Japanese side said five Chinese warships, “traveling in the island of Okinawa, about 650 kilometers southwest of the waters south, heading directly at the Pacific direction”. South, driving the Chinese warships will be possible to enter the Philippine Sea. In addition, China’s entry into the naval fleet of the Pacific training for the first time to join the 071 the most advanced amphibious dock landing ship, so that the formation is more like an actual type of small amphibious landing fleet.

http://www.9abc.net/index.php/archives/78574

Anu daw? Nakakadugo ng ilong, google translate ba yan? First paragraph bumigay na ako :lol:

the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force P-3C patrol aircraft in the 650 km southwest of Okinawa shooting amphibious vessel formation.

our reporter Liu Hu

Japanese side said five Chinese warships, “traveling in the island of Okinawa, about 650 kilometers southwest of the waters south, heading directly at the Pacific direction”. South, driving the Chinese warships will be possible to enter the Philippine Sea. In addition, China’s entry into the naval fleet of the Pacific training for the first time to join the 071 the most advanced amphibious dock landing ship, so that the formation is more like an actual type of small amphibious landing fleet.

http://www.9abc.net/index.php/archives/78574

Oh another propaganda by the Chicoms. Come one, we are not scared anymore. Why not land some of those missiles on Philippine coast? You are full of bullshits.

To the Chicoms, if you can read this, you are just full of BULLSHITS. You only have the force but dont have the balls. It takes both if you really want to be a superpower.

China is testing Filipinos’ determination to defend against intrusion (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/36093/china-is-testing-filipinos-determination-to-defend-against-intrusion)

The Chinese dragon’s hunger for black gold relates to its continuous growth as an economic powerhouse. China imports seventy percent of its oil needs – supplied mostly by Russia. Fearing the prospect of disruption of oil supplies and being hostage to the demands of supplier countries, China is recklessly embarking on grabbing the rich oil resources of the Philippines and it’s neighboring countries.

To justify its intrusion into the territories of neighboring countries, the dragon has engaged in spinning a fictitious tale on why it supposedly owns everything in the area. The fairy tale goes this way: “About 2000 years ago, an ancient Han Dynasty map showed the limits of Chinese territory
which included us owning all of the territory in the South China Sea (also known as West Philippine Sea). Therefore, all of these areas are ours. Never mind that they were designated by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea as belonging to other countries.”

Does China actually have a Han Dynasty map indicating ownership of everything in the South China Sea in this area? So far, it has not shown this map to the public. It may be that some kind of ancient map exists. There are hundreds of old maps. Do any of these say China owns territory belonging to the Philippines and other countries?

While the Chinese have been coming to the Philippines since ancient times as traders selling their stuff or as pirates like Limahong robbing and pillaging the locals – there is no historical proof that the Philippines was ever a colony of China or that China ruled the Philippines or even some parts of it.

Even if we assume that such a map exists indicating a claim by some dreaming Chinese officials that it owned Philippine territories, was that then actual or legal ownership? Not so if in fact no such ownership ever happened except maybe in the imagination of some ancient Han dynasty megalomaniacs.

To illustrate the absurdity of China’s claim: Let’s say Italy found an ancient map that shows that the Roman Empire owned most of Europe and some parts of Africa and Asia, can the Italian government now claim these countries and territories belong to them? Governments and national territorial lines keep changing. That’s a reality every nation has to live with.

The Chinese position is so ridiculous that I doubt that even the Chinese government seriously believes that they have a legitimate claim which can properly be defended in the United Nations International Tribunal on the Law of the Sea (ITLOS).

China’s refusal to bring her claim to ITLOS by itself indicates an admission of the absurdity of her position. Any fool can see that the Chinese government is just using a convenient fairy tale to justify her intrusion into neighbors’ territories in an attempt to grab their oil and other resources.

Recently, Chinese fishing boats and research vessels have been intruding deep into Philippine territory and into waters known as Scarborough Shoals which are just off Zambales.

Pursuant to the United Nations Law of the Sea, a country owns all of that territory within 200 miles from it’s baseline. The Scarborough Shoals are just about 125 miles off the coast of Zambales.

The Philippines issued a diplomatic protest to China but instead of respecting the Philippine position – the Chinese sent more fishing boats into the area including armed patrol boats – together with a response from China’s Deputy Foreign Minister Fu Ying that the Scarborough Shoals are theirs and that it is the Philippines intruding into Chinese territory. Adding the insult to the injury is like saying: “So? What can you do to me if I slap you in the face?”

What does this aggressive Chinese position mean?

Here’s my take on this: It means that China is testing the Philippines’ resolve and reaction to Chinese intrusion – as well as observing American response to the situation. China is not worried about the Philippines’ military capability. It practically has none compared to China’s mighty naval armada and air force. But the American military is no paper tiger. If America gets involved, China will likely reconsider its options.

The United States has a legitimate interest in preventing China from using bully tactics to take over the energy and marine resources of the countries in the area. It can enter into partnerships with the Philippines and other countries in the area for its own energy needs. Political stability and peace in the region are also preserved with the United States using its military might in maintaining the balance of power and keeping the sea lanes open.

Last year, on June 11, 2011, the US Senate passed a resolution condemning China’s increasing use of force against smaller countries in the area and affirmed the US’ willingness to use its military might against Chinese aggression.

For diplomatic and other reasons, the US has to announce that it cannot take sides in the conflict between the Philippines and China. However, American policy makers are aware that U.S. interests compel its continued alliance and goodwill with countries in the region. Standing by doing nothing while China gobbles up the resources of neighboring countries sets a bad precedent and encourages China to be bolder in carrying on more bullying military adventurisms.

It is unfortunate that the Chinese government is resorting to these gorilla tactics to rob smaller nations of their valuable energy and marine resources. While the global community should rightfully be happy for the people of China who went through so much suffering before the present prosperity – China should not pursue continuous economic well-being at the expense of weaker nations.

What should Filipinos do against the onslaught of China’s threat and use of military might?

It would not be prudent to confront China militarily. That would be like David confronting Goliath without his slingshot or like a poodle confronting a tiger. But there are other ways to fight.

Everyone knows that China’s intrusion into Philippine territory is motivated by its thirst for oil. Any decent human being knows that it is immoral to steal property that belongs to another especially when the use of force is involved. It is immoral when individuals do it. It is likewise immoral when nations do it.

What the Philippines needs to do is seek the support of other nations and press the United Nations to seek a resolution of this trespassing and stealing of resources issue. Alone, the Philippines is weak. But together with other nations in condemning China’s immoral attempts at territorial grab, the Philippines can be strong.

The world must be made aware of China’s immoral adventurism and of her attempt to steal the patrimony of other nations through threats or actual use of its military might. The Philippines must wage a relentless campaign with the global community in condemning China’s disrespect of other nations’ property rights. China must also realize that it gains more respect and friends by respecting other nations.

In line with this important objective of defending Philippine territory and resources, the US Pinoys for Good Governance (USP4GG) and supporters have organized a worldwide protest against Chinese intrusion into Philippine waters. On May 11, 2012, at 11:30 A.M., protest demonstrations will be held in front of different Chinese Embassies and Consulates around the world.

Now is the time for all good Filipinos to show genuine concern for the Philippines. Preserving the country’s energy and marine resources can mean a brighter future for millions of Filipinos.

Note: Atty. Laguatan is honored by the California State Bar as one of only 29 lawyers officially certified continuously for more than 20 years as an Expert-Specialist in Immigration Law. He also does accident, injury, wrongful death and complex litigation cases. Email laguatanlaw@gmail.comTel 650 991-1154 Address (San Francisco area): 455 Hickey Blvd. Suite 516, Daly City, Ca 94015

dahil sa sobrang korakot ng mga heneral natin. sana kung sakaling mag kagulo. sila ang unang tamaan. dahil sa pagiging kurakot nila at kapabayaan. ngayon nag mumuka tayong tanga (sorry sa word). bad trip lang ako.

^^Kahit ako nababadtrip narin dito. Nakakawalang gana na ang mga nababasa ko....puro dada, wala namang gawa.....Wala kasing mantino 'tong mga tanga natin na mga politiko....

US pledged to protect PH from attacks in South China Sea, says Gazmin
Interaksyon
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/31480/us-pledged-to-protect-ph-from-attacks-in-south-china-sea-says-gazmin

The Philippines said Wednesday the United States had pledged to protect it from attacks in the South China Sea, a day after China issued a warning over a territorial row in the waters.

Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said he had received the assurances during talks in Washington last week in which the Philippines' increasingly tense dispute with China over rival claims to a shoal in the sea were discussed.

Gazmin said US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta stressed they were not taking sides in the dispute, but they assured the Philippines the United States would honor a 1951 mutual defence treaty.

"It includes armed attack... on island territories in the Pacific region," Gazmin said, citing conditions for the allies coming to each other's aid.

In answer to a question about the dispute with China over Scarborough Shoal, Gazmin said he had interpreted remarks by Clinton to mean the United States would protect the Philippines from any attack in the South China Sea.

"Overall, with these statements, they cover our problem in the West Philippine Sea," he said, using the Philippine name for the waters.

China and the Philippines have had vessels stationed at Scarborough Shoal for more than a month in an effort to assert their sovereignty over the area.

China claims virtually all of the South China Sea as its own, even waters close to the coasts of other Asian countries.

The Philippines insists it has sovereignty over the shoal because it falls within its 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone.

The shoal sits about 230 kilometres (140 miles) from the Philippines' main island of Luzon and 1,200 kilometres northwest from the nearest major Chinese land mass, according to Filipino navy maps.

Taiwan, Brunei, Vietnam and Malaysia also claim parts of the South China, which is believed to sit atop vast oil and gas resources, making the area one of Asia's potential military flashpoints.

China warned on Tuesday it was prepared for "any escalation" in the dispute with the Philippines, which followed an editorial in a newspaper run by the ruling Communist Party calling for a small-scale war to end the stand-off.

Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario also issued a statement on Wednesday saying that Clinton and Panetta had reaffirmed during the Washington talks US commitment to the mutual defence treaty with the Philippines.



DFA chief enumerates U.S. commitments to PH in case China attacks Filipino forces in Spratlys
Interaksyon
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/31528/dfa-chief-enumerates-u-s--commitments-to-ph-in-case-china-attacks-filipino-forces-in-spratlys

MANILA, Philippines - Amid the the territorial dispute in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea) between the Philippines and China, Department of Foreign Affairs Albert F. del Rosario issued a statement enumerating the commitments made by the United States under its 61-year-old Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT) with the Philippines in case the latter is attacked by Chinese forces.

Signed on August 30, 1951, the MDT contains eight articles on how the two countries will support each other if either of them would be attacked by an external party.

Del Rosario stressed that, even in the absence of an actual armed attack against either the Philippines and the US, the MDT provides that the Philippines and the US will consult together from time to time regarding the implementation of the treaty and whenever in the opinion of either of them the territorial integrity, political independence or security of either of the parties is threatened by external armed attack in the Pacific.

1. The Philippines and the United States entered into a Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT) on August 30, 1951, in Washington, D.C.

2. As stated in the MDT’s preamble, both the Philippines and the US desire to publicly declare, through the MDT, their sense of unity and common determination to defend themselves against external armed attack, so that no potential aggressor could be under the illusion that either of them stands alone in the Pacific Area. (Refer to the third paragraph of the MDT’s preamble.)

3. Article IV of the MDT states: “Each party recognizes that an armed attack in the Pacific area on either of the parties would be dangerous to its own peace and safety and declares that it would act to meet the common dangers in accordance with its constitutional processes.”

4. Article V of the MDT further provides that “an armed attack on either of the parties is deemed to include an armed attack on:
a. The metropolitan territory of either of the parties, or
b. On the island territories under its jurisdiction in the Pacific Ocean, and
c. Its armed forces, public vessels or aircraft in the Pacific.”

5. On Jan. 6, 1979, US Secretary of State Cyrus Vance in his letter to Foreign Secretary Carlos P. Romulo, cited Article V of the MDT and stated that “… as provided in Article V, an attack on Philippine armed forces, public vessels or aircraft in the Pacific would not have to occur within the metropolitan territory of the Philippines or island territories under its jurisdiction in the Pacific in order to come within the definition of Pacific area in Article V” (underscoring supplied).

6. On May 24, 1999, US Ambassador to the Philippines Thomas C. Hubbard wrote a letter to Foreign Secretary Domingo L. Siazon affirming that “the US government stands by its statements in the Vance-Romulo letter of Jan. 6, 1979.” Moreover, in the same letter, Ambassador Hubbard cited US Defense Secretary William Cohen’s statement that “the US considers the South China Sea to be part of the Pacific Area” (underscoring supplied).

7. On June 23, 2011, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton reaffirmed to Foreign Secretary Albert F. del Rosario during their meeting in Washington, D.C., that the US “will honor its treaty obligations to the Philippines.”

8. In her remarks to the media after the said meeting, Clinton declared: “The Philippines and the United States are longstanding allies, and we are committed to honoring our mutual obligation.”

9. During the question-and-answer session in the same media event, Clinton was asked by a correspondent from ABS-CBN this question: “What will America do if China attacks Filipino forces in the Spratly Islands?” Clinton’s reply was: “Well, as to your first question, the United States honors our Mutual Defense Treaty and our strategic alliance with the Philippines. I’m not going to discuss hypothetical events, but I want to underscore our commitment to the defense of the Philippines.” (Source: “Remarks with Philippines Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario After Their Meeting,” Washington, D.C., June 23, 2011)

10. On Nov. 16, 2011, Clinton and Del Rosario signed the Manila Declaration which states: “The Republic of the Philippines and the United States today reaffirm our shared obligations under the Mutual Defense Treaty.” (Source: “Manila Declaration on US-Philippine Alliance,” Nov. 16, 2011)11. On April 30, 2012, during the 2+2 meeting in Washington, D.C., Clinton reiterated that the US “reaffirms our commitment and obligations under the mutual defense treaty.” (Source: “Remarks during Press Availability,” State Department, Washington, D.C., April 30, 2012)

12. As additional information, under the US Constitution, the US president as commander in chief may commit US armed forces into action overseas although the US president is obliged to notify the US Congress within 48 hours of such action, as provided for under the US War Powers Resolution of 1973. The same resolution requires that such commitment of US armed forces could not go beyond 60 days, with a further 30-day withdrawal period, without US congressional authorization. This means that a US congressional authorization is needed only if the engagement of US armed forces abroad would go beyond 60 days.

13. It is important to note that, even in the absence of an actual armed attack against either the Philippines and the US, Article III of the MDT provides that the Philippines and the US, “through their foreign ministers or their deputies, will consult together from time to time regarding the implementation of this treaty and whenever in the opinion of either of them the territorial integrity, political independence or security of either of the parties is threatened by external armed attack in the Pacific” (underscoring supplied).

14. The recently concluded 2+2 meeting, at the ministerial level, is a new mechanism for such high-level consultations.

In theory this sounds correct, but my worry is this:

If japan and korea were really worried about the situation, i think they'd have done something long ago - this is not new problem, and the fact that other countries have not gotten involved leads me to beileve we are in this alone.


India does have problems with china - but not in the same way as us. Im sure india is too preoccupied with pakistan [just as china wants] to seriously involve itself elsewhere.

Besides, a defense treaty with india means we would have to help them with pakistan - are we even capable of that? From india's perspective they probably wont find us of much use in that regard

Actually, the Japan do support the Philippines (http://blog.heritage.org/2011/09/29/japan-and-philippines-strengthen-strategic-partnership/) on the issue of maritime security in WPS that angered Beijing not so long time ago. :lol: They are probably keeping a close eye of the situation as well.

US pledged to protect PH from attacks in South China Sea, says Gazmin (http://www.interaksyon.com/article/31480/us-pledged-to-protect-ph-from-attacks-in-south-china-sea-says-gazmin)



You know what I think? If ever the US decides to respond, looks like we will have more problems as regards to OUR constitution than the US constitution. The War powers acts provide that the US president can send troops for 60 days without Congressional approval. If I am not mistaken, our constitution prohibits foreign troops engaging in offensive combat (troops not defensing THEMSELVES)

Poor Philippines. 20 years of Noynoying comes down to

62XIBhKqh7g

Poor Philippines. 20 years of Noynoying comes down to

62XIBhKqh7g

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Parang nahihiya ako pag lumabas yung ganiton title sa news d2 sa Tate.

]Philippines says US to protect it in South China Sea (http://ph.news.yahoo.com/china-tv-claims-philippines-chinese-territory-063745218.html)

Ano na naman kaya ang sasabihin nila nyan?

mahirap talaga pag ampon ka lang tapos pinalayas mo pa ang daddy mo nag ampon sayo, tapos pag inaway ng kalaro ay biglang tatawagin si Daddy para umbagin ang mga kalarong bully:lol:

Latest SCS News Articles ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-09/cnooc-deploys-oil-rig-as-weapon-to-assert-south-china-sea-claims.html

http://www.bworldonline.com/content.php?section=Nation&title=Treaty-covers-conflict-area&id=51429

http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=30304

Grabe Tsina e, buong Pilipinas na inangkin na terrority

Latest SCS News Articles ...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-09/cnooc-deploys-oil-rig-as-weapon-to-assert-south-china-sea-claims.html

http://www.bworldonline.com/content.php?section=Nation&title=Treaty-covers-conflict-area&id=51429

http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=30304




Narcissism. Para Pangalan lang nagagalit. At saka bat ba island tawag nola dyan eh bato naman yun :lol:

PHILIPPINES IS OWNED BY CHINA-HE,news anchor from CCTV:lol:

ANG BOBO NG MGA INTSIK NA to, NGAYON PA DAW TAYO NAG RENAME SA SCARBOROUGH AS PANATAG SHOAL??? :bash: :bash:

ang tagal na kaya nun, last year pa yata na rename... bobo talaga :bash: :bash:

this should not come as a surprise though; ASEAN actually has no use, and is more of a formality than anything else.

To be honest, it would have been nice to have their support, although I'm not sure how much of a difference it would make. Asean is not like the EU, where they actually are well integrated and can guarantee each other's sovereignty.

As I said about a week ago, the only country in asean that would have an interest in this is vietnam, and even they probably only care about their claim which afaik does not include scarborough.

In a few years, we might see malaysia and brunei's waters getting violated, but of course it will be too late by then to do anything :lol:



My opinion is this: Enough with appealing for help - we have a potential US guarantee, and we shouldn't expect others to support our claims - if they choose to ignore us, then we have to accept it and should they ever face a similar situation in the future, we will have to kindly extend the same courtesy. As for scarborough, it is probably a lost cause now - too many chinese vessels - i would honestly just pull back and not give them an excuse to start anything. Start concentrating on building up the spratlys defense so we can at least extract tsome of the resources in the sea.

pag ganito ang pag iisip ng mga pinoy wala na patay na tayo. di pa nga tayo nilusob talo na agad ang iniisip. :ohno: we've been duped already before, are we too dumb to again be dupe the second time? panatag is not a lost cause it's definitely worth fighting for. remember the significance of this island to our defense and security. the tsikom is just testing us they know everything would backlash on them.

nawala na ba ang thread kahapon don sa forum ng mga tsikom? ano ba nangyari??? sayang naantok na ako kagabi.

ANG BOBO NG MGA INTSIK NA to, NGAYON PA DAW TAYO NAG RENAME SA SCARBOROUGH AS PANATAG SHOAL??? :bash: :bash:

ang tagal na kaya nun, last year pa yata na rename... bobo talaga :bash: :bash:



Propaganda at kasinungaling. We never called their huangyan huangyan. It was always panatag or scarborough.

Philippines must buy armaments, says Enrile

MANILA, Philippines—The Philippines should now buy armaments, Senate President Juan Ponce-Enrile on Wednesday said amid warning from China it was fully ready for an escalation of a maritime standoff in the Scarborough Shoal.

“We must prepare. We better buy war equipment. We better buy our weapons, our means of defense,” Enrile told reporters.

The remark also came amid a reported growing number of Chinese vessels in the disputed shoal in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

edited

(source)

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/36063/philippines-must-buy-armaments-says-enrile

Dali Enrile, you must give up your pork barrel too! Invite the others to do the same! :lol::lol:

Propaganda at kasinungaling. We never called their huangyan huangyan. It was always panatag or scarborough.

Huwag yan huwag yan! :lol::lol:

sa totoo lang naaapektuhan na ang tsina sa dakdak ng mga pinoy. di nila akalain na may balls ang pinoy maki pag awayan sa kanila. kaya ang mga walang bayag dyan mag tahimik na lang kayo kung gusto nyo patahimikin ang bansa nyo. sana lang si Aquino maging wise na gamitin to para i unite ang bansa natin at gawin ang dapat na modernization.

Propaganda at kasinungaling. We never called their huangyan huangyan. It was always panatag or scarborough.

wag ka nang manibago pa sa china, mahilig lang kasi sila sa lason, lason sa utak at lason sa katawan...

Huwag yan huwag yan! :lol::lol:

:okay:

sa totoo lang naaapektuhan na ang tsina sa dakdak ng mga pinoy. di nila akalain na may balls ang pinoy maki pag awayan sa kanila. kaya ang mga walang bayag dyan mag tahimik na lang kayo kung gusto nyo patahimikin ang bansa nyo. sana lang si Aquino maging wise na gamitin to para i unite ang bansa natin at gawin ang dapat na modernization.

Blessing in disguise ang madada na presidente :lol:

japan and taiwan is monitoring the recent activities of china in the southern portion of taiwan. according to them chinese warships are spotted in the area. seems china is practicing how to isolate the philippines from it's allies once conflict breaks out.

japan and taiwan is monitoring the recent activities of china in the southern portion of taiwan. according to them chinese warships are spotted in the area. seems china is practicing how to isolate the philippines from it's allies once conflict breaks out.



Anjan ang guam at aussie. May us military dun :D

japan and taiwan is monitoring the recent activities of china in the southern portion of taiwan. according to them chinese warships are spotted in the area. seems china is practicing how to isolate the philippines from it's allies once conflict breaks out.

Shh, wag ka maingay. Andoon sa likod natin ang deer (tagalog ng deer). Baka nga doon lang sila nakaestasyon sa Benham rise. :lol:

Natandaan mo ba na nagrelocate sila doon? :lol:

Nagkakamali sila na total isolation tayo. ;)

Is PH ready for this? What if they will impose economic sanctions?

Guys, remember that our trade balance with China is positive on our side, simply means, PH exports more to China than what PH buys from them.

Chinese travel agencies suspend trips to PHL
May 10, 2012 9:23am


SHANGHAI - Chinese travel agencies have suspended tourist packages to the Philippines and promised refunds to customers who have booked trips, Chinese state media reported Thursday, as tensions over disputed islands in the South China Sea (also called West Philippine Sea) escalated.

Companies including Ctrip.com and Beijing International Travel Service have halted all tours to the Philippines and say they will not accept bookings until the situation improves, Chinese media reported.

The Chinese Embassy to the Philippines warned its citizens in Manila to stay off the streets during planned anti-China protests expected to take place on Friday.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/257681/news/nation/chinese-travel-agencies-suspend-trips-to-phl

^^

As expected sa sitwasyon natin ngayon. Wala ng urungan.

Shh, wag ka maingay. Andoon sa likod natin ang deer (tagalog ng deer). Baka nga doon lang sila nakaestasyon sa Benham rise. :lol:

Natandaan mo ba na nagrelocate sila doon? :lol:

Nagkakamali sila na total isolation tayo. ;)

ok gets...ha ha natutuwa ako dito dami kung natutunan, eto ang advantage natin mga pinoy kung minsan maka pag usap tayo kahit anong language:lol:

iniisip ko lang kasi dapat siguro yung pinakadulo natin oras na rin para bigyan ng protekson baka isa don sa tinatarget nila na ep nila.

pag ganito ang pag iisip ng mga pinoy wala na patay na tayo. di pa nga tayo nilusob talo na agad ang iniisip. :ohno: we've been duped already before, are we too dumb to again be dupe the second time? panatag is not a lost cause it's definitely worth fighting for. remember the significance of this island to our defense and security. the tsikom is just testing us they know everything would backlash on them.

Do you honestly think either side is going to risk a conflict over a bunch of rocks?

This time around we duped ourselves, by announcing to the whole world we were arresting the fishermen, then waiting 9 hours to do so and thus allow the chinese surveillance ships to intervene and cause this situation.

what we should have done was arrest them on the spot, confiscate their catch then hand them over to the chinese embassy. If that wasnt possible, the next best thing would have been to boost our own presence there by also sending fishing boats rather than military vessels.

But now we have given the chinese the opportunity to take scarborough and there isnt much we can do about it....

If china was to start building something on the shoal [whatever it is they could possible build there] what is the philippines going to do about it?

What i think we should do is exactly what china has done, but in a different part of the sea of course - send fishermen and build fortifications

Eventually they will. We have to look towards india and latin america. High population, friendly countries :D.

What is ours is ours. Unless they are willing to submitting to OUR TERMS, that is when we will share with them, not us in their terms

Is PH ready for this? What if they will impose economic sanctions?

Guys, remember that our trade balance with China is positive on our side, simply means, PH exports more to China than what PH buys from them.

Chinese travel agencies suspend trips to PHL
May 10, 2012 9:23am


SHANGHAI - Chinese travel agencies have suspended tourist packages to the Philippines and promised refunds to customers who have booked trips, Chinese state media reported Thursday, as tensions over disputed islands in the South China Sea (also called West Philippine Sea) escalated.

Companies including Ctrip.com and Beijing International Travel Service have halted all tours to the Philippines and say they will not accept bookings until the situation improves, Chinese media reported.

The Chinese Embassy to the Philippines warned its citizens in Manila to stay off the streets during planned anti-China protests expected to take place on Friday.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/257681/news/nation/chinese-travel-agencies-suspend-trips-to-phl

give the taiwanese visa free status, recognize it as independent state, i am sure every chinese lost tourist and investments would be filled up by them.

chinese stock market have a serious drop yesterday in anticipation for break out in the west philippine sea. so in this situation we might not be alone losing something here.

Do you honestly think either side is going to risk a conflict over a bunch of rocks?

This time around we duped ourselves, by announcing to the whole world we were arresting the fishermen, then waiting 9 hours to do so and thus allow the chinese surveillance ships to intervene and cause this situation.

what we should have done was arrest them on the spot, confiscate their catch then hand them over to the chinese embassy. If that wasnt possible, the next best thing would have been to boost our own presence there by also sending fishing boats rather than military vessels.

But now we have given the chinese the opportunity to take scarborough and there isnt much we can do about it....

If china was to start building something on the shoal [whatever it is they could possible build there] what is the philippines going to do about it?

What i think we should do is exactly what china has done, but in a different part of the sea of course - send fishermen and build fortifications

bato man o hindi when sovereignty is the issue, there's no question if it's worth fighting for.

not the time for blaming game. we have to focus and stand on the real issue and that is to protect whatever interest our country have, panatag it's a big stake to our country's defense and security.

Eventually they will. We have to look towards india and latin america. High population, friendly countries :D.

What is ours is ours. Unless they are willing to submitting to OUR TERMS, that is when we will share with them, not us in their terms

yes yes let's look for other markets. markets is just there jsut depend on how we market ourselves. let's not be too overly dependent with one market alone.

give the taiwanese visa free status, recognize it as independent state, i am sure every chinese lost tourist and investments would be filled up by them.

chinese stock market have a serious drop yesterday in anticipation for break out in the west philippine sea. so in this situation we might not be alone losing something here.


Magsorry tayo sa pagdeport....heheehe

bato man o hindi when sovereignty is the issue, there's no question if it's worth fighting for.

not the time for blaming game. we have to focus and stand on the real issue and that is to protect whatever interest our country have, panatag it's a big stake to our country's defense and security.

i see...so are you suggesting our 2 ships take on their 30?

or are you suggesting our entire navy vs theirs?

either way we lose

What we can do is secure our other claims in the sea. Or else we can go all out at scarborough, and once our navy is wiped out, china can proceed to claim the rest of the islands.

Magsorry tayo sa pagdeport....heheehe

wala naman sila atang hinihingi na mag sorry tayo. di tulad sa HK di ba grabe talaga. yung hinihingi nila ngayon is visa free or arrival visa pede ba nating pagbigyan sila in exchange for something, investment or support for us.

i see...so are you suggesting our 2 ships take on their 30?

or are you suggesting our entire navy vs theirs?

either way we lose

What we can do is secure our other claims in the sea. Or else we can go all out at scarborough, and once our navy is wiped out, china can proceed to claim the rest of the islands.

ikaw talaga relax lang parang takot na takot ka na. we're not doing anything stupid. read the sensible suggestions of some here, right now noynoying is the best policy:lol: BUT WE SHOULD NOT LEAVE PANATAG SHOAL WHICH IS OURS.:cheers:

give the taiwanese visa free status, recognize it as independent state, i am sure every chinese lost tourist and investments would be filled up by them.

chinese stock market have a serious drop yesterday in anticipation for break out in the west philippine sea. so in this situation we might not be alone losing something here.

that wont work either, taiwan just a few days ago declared the philippine claim on scarborough illegal. They are just as much of a problem as mainland china, except their navy is not large enough to really assert their claim.

Not sure if you are serious, but taiwans stance is just as bad as chinas

i see...so are you suggesting our 2 ships take on their 30?

or are you suggesting our entire navy vs theirs?

either way we lose

What we can do is secure our other claims in the sea. Or else we can go all out at scarborough, and once our navy is wiped out, china can proceed to claim the rest of the islands.




At our state, how can we secure the spratlys? Scarborough or spratlys talbog tayo. If we give up scarborough now, di na nila patstagalin ang spratlys.

Unless kuntento ka sa benham rise lang...which by the way, is now UNDISPUTED

i see...so are you suggesting our 2 ships take on their 30?

or are you suggesting our entire navy vs theirs?

either way we lose

What we can do is secure our other claims in the sea. Or else we can go all out at scarborough, and once our navy is wiped out, china can proceed to claim the rest of the islands.

You are taking nonsense. :bash: :bash: :bash:

The Philippines is talking about it ownership or territory which China is trying to claim with non existing maps or documents & make an faulty claims of Islands. :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

that wont work either, taiwan just a few days ago declared the philippine claim on scarborough illegal. They are just as much of a problem as mainland china, except their navy is not large enough to really assert their claim.

Not sure if you are serious, but taiwans stance is just as bad as chinas



nah you might mean the stance of some pro china politicians but not taiwan, the country herself. Take note that before taiwan can make any move everything will pass thru referendum. so let's wait what would be the 50-50%, pro china and anti china will be deciding.

and please do not compare taiwan to china, taiwan is open for a diplomatic solution unlike the rogue china who is doing a double strategy of "saying this but doing another".

At our state, how can we secure the spratlys? Scarborough or spratlys talbog tayo. If we give up scarborough now, di na nila patstagalin ang spratlys.

Unless kuntento ka sa benham rise lang...which by the way, is now UNDISPUTED


Sorry, "secure" was not exactly the word i was looking for. What I mean is we can strengthen our claim on the spratleys though, by sending fishing vessels and perhaps buildding some fortifications there - basically what china has done at scarborough, i would suggest we do at any unoccupied islands right now, starting with those closest to palawan of course. [with the state of our navy, it is of course impossible to literally "secure" anything]

The more we have there, the more reluctant chinese fishers etc will be to get there. They were unopposed at scarborough.

i see...so are you suggesting our 2 ships take on their 30?

or are you suggesting our entire navy vs theirs?

either way we lose

What we can do is secure our other claims in the sea. Or else we can go all out at scarborough, and once our navy is wiped out, china can proceed to claim the rest of the islands.

One word: Image.

It is already known that Philippines lacked modern military gadgets to counter them off, but we make it up with leverage.

The Philippine government had been actively making diplomatic offensives at all fronts and China is getting the message that we don't buy their b/s while our ASEAN neighbors are constantly being screwed by Beijing. Well, let them be screwed. :lol:

In fact, there was a post several threads ago from the Chicom parrot media that Philippines is trying to 'balance' the power in WPS. :lol:

If they make the first strike, expect the world reaction about this issue.

In some way, this is also a blessing in disguise - it will wake us up that we are not as secure as was previously thought and that it's time to get serious on building our own defense.

give the taiwanese visa free status, recognize it as independent state, i am sure every chinese lost tourist and investments would be filled up by them.

chinese stock market have a serious drop yesterday in anticipation for break out in the west philippine sea. so in this situation we might not be alone losing something here.

9% is nothing. And tourism is tourism. Despite the travel ban by HK on PHL, air routes are launched connecting the territory and the Philippines are launched left and right. The government can tell their citizens not to visit the Philippines or any country for that matter but you think they can really stop them from coming? :lol: Despite the travel ban in HK, Boracay, Cebu and Palawan are marketed in HK newspapers! :D

bato man o hindi when sovereignty is the issue, there's no question if it's worth fighting for.

not the time for blaming game. we have to focus and stand on the real issue and that is to protect whatever interest our country have, panatag it's a big stake to our country's defense and security.

Maski wala pang bato dyan, teritoryo natin yan. Ewan ko ba sa ibang mga tao dito sa SSC, siguro okay lang silang manakawan. Wag na daw tayong manlaban, enjoy na lang. :ohno::ohno::ohno:

i see...so are you suggesting our 2 ships take on their 30?

or are you suggesting our entire navy vs theirs?

either way we lose

What we can do is secure our other claims in the sea. Or else we can go all out at scarborough, and once our navy is wiped out, china can proceed to claim the rest of the islands.

Your view is way too simplistic. Diplomacy, trade and defence issues transcend 'them versus us' argument. You have to understand the complexity of the issue rather than easily give up something that is OURS.


yes yes let's look for other markets. markets is just there jsut depend on how we market ourselves. let's not be too overly dependent with one market alone.


Yes. Putting all your eggs in one basket is a tragic flaw in business. Our tourism survived even when we had hijackings, coliform scare etc.

wala naman sila atang hinihingi na mag sorry tayo. di tulad sa HK di ba grabe talaga. yung hinihingi nila ngayon is visa free or arrival visa pede ba nating pagbigyan sila in exchange for something, investment or support for us.

Taiwan also has an active claim on the islands including Panatag. We can play the Taiwan card but you see, the end results are still too early to call.

i see...so are you suggesting our 2 ships take on their 30?

or are you suggesting our entire navy vs theirs?

either way we lose

What we can do is secure our other claims in the sea. Or else we can go all out at scarborough, and once our navy is wiped out, china can proceed to claim the rest of the islands.

uhmm.. if we let China take Scarborough now... how sure are you China will not encroach another territory of ours?... They just did it for Mischief Reef a few years back... please remember that China is contesting a number of islets in the Spratlys... China will go one by one until it gets the entirety of it.. just like the Paracel islands of Vietnam...

You are taking nonsense. :bash: :bash: :bash:

The Philippines is talking about it ownership or territory which China is trying to claim with non existing maps or documents & make an faulty claims of Islands. :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

yes, and what we have done at scarborough obviously has not worked - our fishermen are unable/unwilling to enter.

And while china might not want to risk conflict, they are going to use other methods, beginning with their travel ban. Not sure if we can afford this at the moment, but hopefully china does not comprise too large a percentage of tourism revenues.

Maski wala pang bato dyan, teritoryo natin yan. Ewan ko ba sa ibang mga tao dito sa SSC, siguro okay lang silang manakawan. Wag na daw tayong manlaban, enjoy na lang. :ohno::ohno::ohno:


I actually even sense that in Facebook.... that many Pinoys seems to be not interested with the issue... mas interesado pa sila sa suntukan sa NAIA...

uhmm.. if we let China take Scarborough now... how sure are you China will not encroach another territory of ours?... They just did it for Mischief Reef a few years back... please remember that China is contesting a number of islets in the Spratlys... China will go one by one until it gets the entirety of it.. just like the Paracel islands of Vietnam...

exactly! imo we would be really the stupidiest among the stupids if we believe their tactics again. :bash:

I actually even sense that in Facebook.... that many Pinoys seems to be not interested with the issue... mas interesado pa sila sa suntukan sa NAIA...

Speaking of the global action tomorrow... any website where we can put on Twibbon and avatar?

yes, and what we have done at scarborough obviously has not worked - our fishermen are unable/unwilling to enter.

And while china might not want to risk conflict, they are going to use other methods, beginning with their travel ban. Not sure if we can afford this at the moment, but hopefully china does not comprise too large a percentage of tourism revenues.

if that is the cost of this... it's better to lose China's influence than losing a property from an invading nation.... if we keep on letting them take us over... soon the whole country will be under communist China... galit pa man din tayo sa NPA...

Sorry, "secure" was not exactly the word i was looking for. What I mean is we can strengthen our claim on the spratleys though, by sending fishing vessels and perhaps buildding some fortifications there - basically what china has done at scarborough, i would suggest we do at any unoccupied islands right now, starting with those closest to palawan of course. [with the state of our navy, it is of course impossible to literally "secure" anything]

The more we have there, the more reluctant chinese fishers etc will be to get there. They were unopposed at scarborough.



But do we have the necessary resources to defend our occupied islands? Vietnam nga nagoyo tayo. China pa kaya?

Our prOblem is not strengthening our claim but having te ability to defend what is ours. We dont make absurd claims like china and to certain extent, vietnam. Tayo ang unang nagpopulate sa spratlys at nakigaya ang iba

Speaking of the global action tomorrow... any website where we can put on Twibbon and avatar?

I've been looking the past days.. but seems none... even no facebook page about it.....

i even think that CNN will not focus much on this as they have a base in Hong Kong which is still under China rule...

Is PH ready for this? What if they will impose economic sanctions?

Guys, remember that our trade balance with China is positive on our side, simply means, PH exports more to China than what PH buys from them.


Are you sure? Ive heard that most of their products enter our ports free. They call it smuggling.

yes, and what we have done at scarborough obviously has not worked - our fishermen are unable/unwilling to enter.

And while china might not want to risk conflict, they are going to use other methods, beginning with their travel ban. Not sure if we can afford this at the moment, but hopefully china does not comprise too large a percentage of tourism revenues.

mag kape ka muna masyado kang nerbyoso pag tayo lahat ganyan wala na tayo. let's keep our cool and let's not announce "defeat before the action":cheers:

we have to afford any cost, this is the moment already that we need something to awaken our country.

The world will not end if we do not trade with china

Between 1949 and 1973, we did not have ties with the mainland

mag kape ka muna masyado kang nerbyoso pag tayo lahat ganyan wala na tayo. let's keep our cool and let's not announce "defeat before the action":cheers:

we have to afford any cost, this is the moment already that we need something to awaken our country.

Di na kaya ng kape yan. Turok na kailangan nyan. Masyadong marming investments sa China made na produkto kaya takot na takot.

I've been looking the past days.. but seems none... even no facebook page about it.....

i even think that CNN will not focus much on this as they have a base in Hong Kong which is still under China rule...

CNN will not focus but other country'[s media are focusing already. I watched the tv news in Taiwan this morning. I hope all pinoy migrants and immigrants in other countries will help spread the news and encourage more friends to join. Tomorrow is the day We Filipinos will be showing our loyalty and patriotism to our country. :banana::cheers:

Your view is way too simplistic. Diplomacy, trade and defence issues transcend 'them versus us' argument. You have to understand the complexity of the issue rather than easily give up something that is OURS.


Of course i have considered those 3, but think about it from other country's perspectives.

Diplomacy - This has gotten us nowhere. No support from ASEAN - the closest thing to support we have is the US help to try prop up the military.

Trade - Most countries will have higher trade with china than they do with the philippines - so if this is an issue most will side with china because its a more valued training partner.

Defence - The only guarantee that we can rely on is possibly the US treaty. But the US is remaining neutral with issues pertaining to the WPS - and scarborough is evidence of that - they aren't going to help us on any of these disputed islands, otherwise they surely would have taken some stance by now on the issue rather than remain neutral.


Barring an attack on undisputed philippine territory, we cannot rely on US help. They might help us, perhaps, but its obviously not something we should be counting on.

Speaking of the global action tomorrow... any website where we can put on Twibbon and avatar?

can we also request the mods here to at least allow perhaps posting regarding that activitiy kahit man lang sa samahan.

But do we have the necessary resources to defend our occupied islands? Vietnam nga nagoyo tayo. China pa kaya?

Our prOblem is not strengthening our claim but having te ability to defend what is ours. We dont make absurd claims like china and to certain extent, vietnam. Tayo ang unang nagpopulate sa spratlys at nakigaya ang iba


Well, whether or not we have the necessary resorces to defend them depends on the strengthof china's navy.



plus, do we have the ability to defend scarborough? obviously not

don't worry about the trades in china some foreign companies are cancelling their production plan in china already. Yesterday RIM just announced it would pull out from china. Al Jeera tv is closing it's branch in Beijing. sana dadami pa ang listahan.

Well, whether or not we have the necessary resorces to defend them depends on the strengthof china's navy.



plus, do we have the ability to defend scarborough? obviously not



Then how much can we defend the spratlys then? Our problem is not our claims, but the non adherence to the code of conduct of other countries

if that is the cost of this... it's better to lose China's influence than losing a property from an invading nation.... if we keep on letting them take us over... soon the whole country will be under communist China... galit pa man din tayo sa NPA...

im not sure what your point is - in case you havent noticed, they are are already effectivey in contrrol of scarboroough with their 15:1 ratio in presence.

In fact, keeping them from taking over the rest of the islands is exactly what im thinking about!

I say we start fishing etc..further south in the spratlys - plus who knows, the further south this goes, the likelier asean might actually care to do something about it.

Of course i have considered those 3, but think about it from other country's perspectives.

Diplomacy - This has gotten us nowhere. No support from ASEAN - the closest thing to support we have is the US help to try prop up the military.

Trade - Most countries will have higher trade with china than they do with the philippines - so if this is an issue most will side with china because its a more valued training partner.

Defence - The only guarantee that we can rely on is possibly the US treaty. But the US is remaining neutral with issues pertaining to the WPS - and scarborough is evidence of that - they aren't going to help us on any of these disputed islands, otherwise they surely would have taken some stance by now on the issue rather than remain neutral.


Barring an attack on undisputed philippine territory, we cannot rely on US help. They might help us, perhaps, but its obviously not something we should be counting on.


Diplomacy should be intensified. I agree, ASEAN is useless. While we should continue lobbying our neighbours to put out a stand, we need to make sure that we can internationalise this enough that other countries pay attention.

Trade as I mentioned should be diversified and not be too China-centric. Either way, Chinese traders with extensive business presence wont be too happy for an all out war with the Philippines. China will have more to lose than the Philippines with our puny trade.

US will maintain a tentative neutral stance on the surface. But it will not risk a shooting war over the area and neither will other countries. WPS is an important trade route, it will be a clusterf*ck if China starts a war there. No one wants it. But China must be the first to withdraw and RESPECT international agreements it signed and ratified. The ball is in China's hands.


I've been looking the past days.. but seems none... even no facebook page about it.....

i even think that CNN will not focus much on this as they have a base in Hong Kong which is still under China rule...

https://www.facebook.com/May11globaldayofaction

Of course i have considered those 3, but think about it from other country's perspectives.

Diplomacy - This has gotten us nowhere. No support from ASEAN - the closest thing to support we have is the US help to try prop up the military.

Trade - Most countries will have higher trade with china than they do with the philippines - so if this is an issue most will side with china because its a more valued training partner.

Defence - The only guarantee that we can rely on is possibly the US treaty. But the US is remaining neutral with issues pertaining to the WPS - and scarborough is evidence of that - they aren't going to help us on any of these disputed islands, otherwise they surely would have taken some stance by now on the issue rather than remain neutral.


Barring an attack on undisputed philippine territory, we cannot rely on US help. They might help us, perhaps, but its obviously not something we should be counting on.

No, they aren't. They have been consistently following that policy even before the Scarborough issue. US has nothing to do with those disputed territories over WPS.

Philippine's two ships were floating there for two reasons:

1.) Keep an eye on their activities as well as 'safeguarding' our claim while we are actively pursuing this through ITLOS - a diplomatic offensive.
2.) Target for their warships.

Yes, I said target, because once they set the fire, we can activate the MDT right there and Beijing knew this.

Ever wonder why there were reports of their ships spotted in Okinawa and Taiwan by now?

They are there to cut us off from Allied support when the Chicoms decide to attack us.

Then how much can we defend the spratlys then? Our problem is not our claims, but the non adherence to the code of conduct

That's the thing - we're not sure how we can defend spratlys. Of course its worth a try - but what we did at scarborough obviously didn't work.


the spratlys is much further for china to travel to - i think we can try to impede their progress there by building up what we can - it will be costlier for them than for us if they have got to travel hundreds of miles, whereas its only a few miles off our coast.


i dont like "giving up" scarborough - but in all honesty, what can we do about it right now other than file a protest, organize demonstrations that the chinese wont even listen to anyway

Some people still bring up the neutral stance of the US. Well, the us congress has NOT ratified the unclos; therefore the us cannot say anything about eez and take sides.

Well, whether or not we have the necessary resorces to defend them depends on the strengthof china's navy.



plus, do we have the ability to defend scarborough? obviously not


It doesn't mean that since you can't watch every inch of your house 24/7 means that you will cede every property every time someone demands it.

im not sure what your point is - in case you havent noticed, they are are already effectivey in contrrol of scarboroough with their 15:1 ratio in presence.

In fact, keeping them from taking over the rest of the islands is exactly what im thinking about!

I say we start fishing etc..further south in the spratlys - plus who knows, the further south this goes, the likelier asean might actually care to do something about it.



And china will fire at the fishermen again, or worse start to arrest them after the scarborough?

That's the thing - we're not sure how we can defend spratlys. Of course its worth a try - but what we did at scarborough obviously didn't work.


the spratlys is much further for china to travel to - i think we can try to impede their progress there by building up what we can - it will be costlier for them than for us if they have got to travel hundreds of miles, whereas its only a few miles off our coast.


i dont like "giving up" scarborough - but in all honesty, what can we do about it right now other than file a protest, organize demonstrations that the chinese wont even listen to anyway



They have the ability to take down structures we erect. The mischief like the spratlys is near to palawan, but what did they do? And whatdid we do? Nada. It made them bolder. If we give up on scarbOrogh now, they will be bolder and more vigilant. they are not dumb

And like they will listen to us in the spratlys case?

No, they aren't. They have followed that policy even before the Scarborough issue. US has nothing to do with those disputed territories over WPS.

Philippine's two ships were floating there for two reasons:

1.) Keep an eye on their activities as well as 'safeguarding' our claim while we are actively pursuing this through ITLOS - a diplomatic offensive.
2.) Target for their warships.

Yes, I said target, because once they set the fire, we can activate the MDT right there and Beijing knew this.

Ever wonder why there were reports of their ships spotted in Okinawa and Taiwan by now?

They are there to cut us off from Allied support when the Chicoms decide to attack us.


1) Diplomatic offensive will probably not work - even if unclos rules in our favor, china probably wont listen. And theres always the chance that they might not rule in our favor --- then what?

2) So just keep the ships there as bait? Which as you say, china will probably never fire on? Well if our fishermen are afraid to go there- what point do they serve other than bait? Which then begs the question - is it worth leaving 2 ships there merely as bait and nothing more, especially when the general consensus is that they won't be fired upon???



If it will require an actual firing on one of our ships to drag the US in, then that obviously means all china has to do is build up a force to just threaten other countries, and it can happily sail in to claim any island it wants - which is exactly what im worried about.

1) Diplomatic offensive will probably not work - even if unclos rules in our favor, china probably wont listen. And theres always the chance that they might not rule in our favor --- then what?

2) So just keep the ships there as bait? Which as you say, china will probably never fire on? Well if our fishermen are afraid to go there- what point do they serve other than bait? Which then begs the question - is it worth leaving 2 ships there merely as bait and nothing more, especially when the general consensus is that they won't be fired upon???



If it will require an actual firing on one of our ships to drag the US in, then that obviously means all china has to do is build up a force to just threaten other countries, and it can happily sail in to claim any island it wants - which is exactly what im worried about.


It's a lose-lose situation for sure, but history has proven that China lost more territories every time it engages itself with an external conflict.

And china will fire at the fishermen again, or worse start to arrest them after the scarborough?

china might be more hesitant to fire upon them knowing that we have our own ships/fortifications nearby.


You see, our fishermen were not fired upon at scarborough partly because of those 2 ships - the thing is fishermen arent going there anymore.

But as i said - its no guarantee - but its worth a try wouldnt you say?


what exactly is your idea for the spratlys anyway?

1) Diplomatic offensive will probably not work - even if unclos rules in our favor, china probably wont listen. And theres always the chance that they might not rule in our favor --- then what?

2) So just keep the ships there as bait? Which as you say, china will probably never fire on? Well if our fishermen are afraid to go there- what point do they serve other than bait? Which then begs the question - is it worth leaving 2 ships there merely as bait and nothing more, especially when the general consensus is that they won't be fired upon???



If it will require an actual firing on one of our ships to drag the US in, then that obviously means all china has to do is build up a force to just threaten other countries, and it can happily sail in to claim any island it wants - which is exactly what im worried about.

We put this on ITLOS to buy us time propping up the defense and at the same time, further tarnish Chicom's image as a bully. In the end, it's all about image.

If they don't fire on our ships, that's even better but there is no way we should leave the Panatag shoal just because there are 30 ships over there.

They can even make an island of ships if they want to but our 2 little ships should remain over there. :lol:

They have the ability to take down structures we erect. The mischief like the spratlys is near to palawan, but what did they do? And whatdid we do? Nada. It made them bolder. If we give up on scarbOrogh now, they will be bolder and more vigilant. they are not dumb

And like they will listen to us in the spratlys case?


Have they ever done this right in the presence of our coast guard?

If we start building up in the spratleys, more fishermen and coast guards, i think it could make the chinese think twice.


As i've already said - there is of course no guarantee- but can you think of better alternatives?

You think if we back out now, the chinese will be softer? No! They will be more vigilant and they will send more ships to guard their claims esp in the spratlys. They are not stupid when it comes to what they want. Backing out now will make them more bolder

As i said earlier we can stay there and have a psychological effect on the citizens on china which will direct their anger to the ccp because they cannot do anything eith the teeny weeny philippines.

This is not just about territory,but also psycholOgical and geopolitical.

Remember that china also want to control the trade and the area be its sphere of influence

We put this on ITLOS to buy us time propping up the defense and at the same time, further tarnish Chicom's image as a bully. In the end, it's all about image.

If they don't fire on our ships, that's even better but there is no way we should leave the Panatag shoal just because there are 30 ships over there.

They can even make an island of ships if they want to but our 2 little ships should remain over there. :lol:

It will only tarnish china's image if they rule it in our favor. [which logically they should, but you never know]


Fair point about leaving the ships at Panatag,[btw, im not so much saying we should withdraw them as much as just pointing out there isnt much use for them there realistically] but what exactly are we going to do now about the rest of the islands they are claiming?

You think if we back out now, the chinese will be softer? No! They will be more vigilant and they will send more ships to guard their claims esp in the spratlys. They are not stupid when it comes to what they want. Backing out now will make them more bolder

As i said earlier we can stay there and have a psychological effect on the citizens on china which will direct their anger to the ccp because they cannot do anything eith the teeny weeny philippines.

This is not just about territory,but also psycholOgical and geopolitical.

Remember that china also want to control the trade and the area be its sphere of influence

Ok - lets forget about scarborough for a second - what exactly are we going to do about the rest of their claims? say, the spratleys?

China Travel Agencies Suspend Trips to the Philippines


By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN | Associated Press – 31 mins ago



BEIJING (AP) — China is suspending some tourism to the Philippines and increasing inspections on fruit imports in an apparent bid to use economic pressure to end a standoff over a disputed shoal in the South China Sea.
The Shanghai Tourism Bureau recently ordered tours to the Philippines suspended indefinitely, according to staff with the Yiyou and Guojikuaixian travel agencies in the eastern financial hub.
Nationwide online agency Ctrip.com has also suspended trips due to safety concerns, an agent said, citing "anti-China sentiments in that country right now." She said the company acted on its own without official orders.
None of the agents would give their names because of the sensitivity of the matter. Calls to China's national tourism administration rang unanswered Thursday.
The suspensions come as China's embassy in Manila issued a safety warning to its nationals in the Philippines over planned protests there asserting Philippines rights over disputed Scarborough Shoal, where boats from China and the Philippines have been engaged in a monthlong standoff.
Meanwhile, China's food safety watchdog has ordered stiffer inspections of banana, pineapples, and other fruit imported from the Philippines. The agricultural sector is about 12 percent of the Philippine economy, but the impact may be small as China is not a primary market. Chinese tourists also make up about 9 percent of total arrivals to the Philippines, according to the Philippines national tourism administration.
The economic squeezing follows growing diplomatic pressure from Beijing and a raft of fiery editorials in Chinese state media. Beijing has summoned Manila's charge d'affairs to hear protests three times in recent weeks, while retired and serving military officers have penned calls for a limited military operation to shore up China's credibility on the matter.
China and the Philippines are among six claimants to waters and island groups in the South China Sea, which boasts some of the world's most heavily traveled maritime lanes, rich fishing grounds, and a potential wealth of mineral resources.
The latest standoff between Beijing and Manila began April 10 when the Philippine navy accused Chinese boats of fishing illegally around Scarborough.

Have they ever done this right in the presence of our coast guard?

If we start building up in the spratleys, more fishermen and coast guards, i think it could make the chinese think twice.


As i've already said - there is of course no guarantee- but can you think of better alternatives?




If they see new structures, are you sure they will allow more? They are likely to send more of their cms to make sure we will not build structures and occupy more island.

guys there's no use discussing with toyman, the conclusion he wanted is for our country to back out and give everything to china. instead let's focus on how to make the protest tomorrow better. let's discuss on how our country should prepare for any scenario. keep on posting the activity tomorrow,para di malimutan ng iba lam nyo naman kung minsan mga pinoy masyadong malimutin :lol:

China Travel Agencies Suspend Trips to the Philippines


By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN | Associated Press – 31 mins ago



BEIJING (AP) — China is suspending some tourism to the Philippines and increasing inspections on fruit imports in an apparent bid to use economic pressure to end a standoff over a disputed shoal in the South China Sea.
The Shanghai Tourism Bureau recently ordered tours to the Philippines suspended indefinitely, according to staff with the Yiyou and Guojikuaixian travel agencies in the eastern financial hub.
Nationwide online agency Ctrip.com has also suspended trips due to safety concerns, an agent said, citing "anti-China sentiments in that country right now." She said the company acted on its own without official orders.
None of the agents would give their names because of the sensitivity of the matter. Calls to China's national tourism administration rang unanswered Thursday.
The suspensions come as China's embassy in Manila issued a safety warning to its nationals in the Philippines over planned protests there asserting Philippines rights over disputed Scarborough Shoal, where boats from China and the Philippines have been engaged in a monthlong standoff.
Meanwhile, China's food safety watchdog has ordered stiffer inspections of banana, pineapples, and other fruit imported from the Philippines. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: The agricultural sector is about 12 percent of the Philippine economy, but the impact may be small as China is not a primary market. Chinese tourists also make up about 9 percent of total arrivals to the Philippines, according to the Philippines national tourism administration.
The economic squeezing follows growing diplomatic pressure from Beijing and a raft of fiery editorials in Chinese state media. Beijing has summoned Manila's charge d'affairs to hear protests three times in recent weeks, while retired and serving military officers have penned calls for a limited military operation to shore up China's credibility on the matter.
China and the Philippines are among six claimants to waters and island groups in the South China Sea, which boasts some of the world's most heavily traveled maritime lanes, rich fishing grounds, and a potential wealth of mineral resources.
The latest standoff between Beijing and Manila began April 10 when the Philippine navy accused Chinese boats of fishing illegally around Scarborough.






Sorry China has a Food Safety Bureau??? :lol::lol::lol::lol: LAUGHTRIP! :lol::lol::lol::lol: