Maceda? eww:D

Maceda? eww:D

miga, kuha mo kaagad!

Very good move that US troops are allowed to visit and use Subic and Clark more often in coordination with the philippine government! I hope the people will realize that it's really better to have US troops in the country!

The Bad Effects? We can expect more HIV/AIDS, rise of prostitution, rape victims, toxic waste from nuclear-powered ships, other human rights violations, the threat of a strategic nuclear strike from North Korea if the Korean War erupts again or from other US enemies, and our politicians being confident again that the regular US troops presence means that we don't have to spend much on our AFP modernization.

^^ Instead of the base, gawin nalang repair/maintenance facilities ng mga allies natin.

Indian aircraft carrier ready for sea trials
http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/indian-aircraft-carrier-ready-sea-trials

Buti pa sila. Tayo..hay naku Ramos hay naku Mike Arroyo sino pa dyan lintek mga yan.

^^ Instead of the base, gawin nalang repair/maintenance facilities ng mga allies natin.

It should have been Sangley Point because it used to be the repair and maintenance facility of the US bases back then.

Indian aircraft carrier ready for sea trials
http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/indian-aircraft-carrier-ready-sea-trials

Buti pa sila. Tayo..hay naku Ramos hay naku Mike Arroyo sino pa dyan lintek mga yan.

No worries! We will soon have 2-3 LPDs (helicopter carriers) but aircraft carriers I doubt it, even Thailand is having problems maintaining and operating its own aircraft carrier. Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and Indonesia doesn't have an aircraft carrier but only helicopter carriers (LPDs) but these countries have modern navies.

The Bad Effects? We can expect more HIV/AIDS, rise of prostitution, rape victims, toxic waste from nuclear-powered ships, other human rights violations, the threat of a strategic nuclear strike from North Korea if the Korean War erupts again or from other US enemies, and our politicians being confident again that the regular US troops presence means that we don't have to spend much on our AFP modernization.

All of these so-called negative effects for having a military base will be avoided if the Government agencies as well as the Church would all do their responsibilities. (There would be no prostitution if the Church focuses on morally guiding her flock instead of being busy asking for "gifts" from politicians like the so-called Pajero Bishops).

Just like what another forumer said before, I'd rather kiss the ass of Americans than having the Chinese dominating us. :)

Ewww! Ass kisser! None of the above is better, IMO.

Kahit wala mga kano patuloy na tataas mga yang "bad effects" na yan. Walang co-relation. Sa katunayan nga gobyerno opisyal pa nga ang taga-tangkilik ng mga yan eh

It should have been Sangley Point because it used to be the repair and maintenance facility of the US bases back then.



No worries! We will soon have 2-3 LPDs (helicopter carriers) but aircraft carriers I doubt it, even Thailand is having problems maintaining and operating its own aircraft carrier. Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan and Indonesia doesn't have an aircraft carrier but only helicopter carriers (LPDs) but these countries have modern navies.

Japan is not allowed to have an aircraft carrier that is why they classify their Hyuuga class as Destroyer.

Ewww! Ass kisser! None of the above is better, IMO.

Mas gusto ko rin na independent ang Pilipinas pagdating sa defence pero saan ka muna hihingi ng tulong pag malubha na ang sitwasyon? sa NATO?
and btw, pwede magtagalog ka na lang kung ganyan din lang ang sagot mo? Kasi yung "Eww Asskisser!" ay hindi rin makabayan eh. Galing sa kano din yan.

Kahit wala mga kano patuloy na tataas mga yang "bad effects" na yan. Walang co-relation. Sa katunayan nga gobyerno opisyal pa nga ang taga-tangkilik ng mga yan eh

It has a co-relation...

All of these so-called negative effects for having a military base will be avoided if the Government agencies as well as the Church would all do their responsibilities.

Japan and South Korea which has permanent US bases also experience the same cases.


(There would be no prostitution if the Church focuses on morally guiding her flock instead of being busy asking for "gifts" from politicians like the so-called Pajero Bishops).

As long as there is corruption, there is poverty, there will be prostitution!


Just like what another forumer said before, I'd rather kiss the ass of Americans than having the Chinese dominating us. :)

Don't you know that the Chinese are already dominating us? SM Malls, PAL, Air Philippines, Tanduay, Asia Brewery, Fortune Tobacco, Allied Bank, PNB, Eton, University of the East, etc.

A typical Filipino will study in UE, keeps his savings in PNB or Allied Bank, goes to SM Malls on weekends, works in a call center in Eton Centris, drinks Tanduay and other liquor with friends, smokes Fortune cigarettes on his break time, and goes home to his province via PAL or Air Philippines.

O di ba kumpleto? :lol:

Japan is not allowed to have an aircraft carrier that is why they classify their Hyuuga class as Destroyer.

The Hyūga class is a type of helicopter carrier classified as a "helicopter destroyer"; Japan is not allowed to have an aircraft carrier for fixed wing aircraft.

BTW, the bad effects won't be seen immediately because the focus is to scare China.

1. HIV/AIDS, rise of prostitution, rape victims, other human rights violations did not occur as soon as the Americans started to build and settle their bases on foreign soil, it happened during the duration of their stay.

2. toxic waste from nuclear-powered ships was discovered only after the Americans left their bases and has taken its negative effects on the environment because when the Americans were still around, they had the means to contain and prevent it from being publicized.

3. the threat of a strategic nuclear strike from North Korea if the Korean War erupts again or from other US enemies is an imminent danger since North Korea, China and other not so friendly countries have developed long range nuclear ballistic missiles; Part of a military strategist cookbook is to hit targets where the US can easily "replenish" its forces.

4. our politicians being confident again that the regular US troops presence means that we don't have to spend much on our AFP modernization is one of the very reasons why we have a poor navy and air force because we relied so much on the US Navy and its Air Corps during their stay so when they left, we were left with war equipment dated back to World War 2 and the Vietnam War.

It was only Marcos who modernized the AFP even if the US bases were still around. He made our Philippine Navy and Philippine Air Force, one of the best in Asia and a constant threat to Malaysia.

^^ It is the ultra-nationalist voice of the Philippines that made the Chinese do whatever they want.

As if those problems won't be there regardless of whether or not there are American bases here. The Philippines while industrializing is experiencing higher cases of HIV cases. It is only expected from a modernizing country to have that. Continuous liberalization of the economy and the rise in per capita income will give the people more reason to seek personal pleasures. That is something that is not a problem of the Americans.

We are modernizing our armed forces. It's actually faster that usual since we are facing an immediate threat from communist yellow skins up north. Now, with the current state of the AFP, tell me what kind of deterrent are you nationalists proposing?

The Philippines is not the only nation in the world. Soon enough, we won't be looking at ourselves as Filipinos but rather as humans in a big global village. To put too much pride on ourselves will be like swinging our cocks around the world like what Germany and now, China is doing.

PALACE: NO TEMPORARY BASING RIGHTS FOR US
Manila Standard
http://news.manilastandardtoday.com/2012/06/07/palace-no-temporary-basing-rights-for-us/

MALACAÑANG on Wednesday denied having granted temporary basing rights to the United States, but said American warships were likely to make more requests for port calls given Washington’s move to increase US presence in the Asia-Pacific region.

Presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda said that US vessels would only be allowed to use the naval and air facilities in Subic, Zambales, and in Clarkfield, Pampanga, if joint military exercises were being held.

The US ships, however, would be allowed to make regular port calls for refueling and supply replenishment, Lacierda said, adding that Manila expected an increase in such requests.

Earlier, Defense Undersecretary Honorio Azcueta said US visits to Subic and Clarkfield must first be approved by the Philippine government.

US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta earlier said Washington was increasing its naval presence in the region without necessarily establishing permanent military bases in any country.

In 1992, Subic Naval Base and the Clark Air Base—the two biggest US military bases outside mainland America—were closed after the Senate rejected their continued presence.

Meanwhile, a military official on Wednesday denied reports that China and the Philippines had pulled out their ships from the disputed Panatag or Scarborough Shoal.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said China had been maintaining six vessels in the disputed waters while the Philippines had been keeping its two vessels in the same area.

On Tuesday, the Foreign Affairs Department announced that both sides had pulled out their ships from the shoal, easing tension in the area.

On Wednesday, the Chinese Embassy in Manila confirmed the withdrawal of China’s ships.

“The Chinese side is in direct communication with the Philippine side on appropriate settlement of the situation. It has been learned that there is no Philippine government ship in the lagoon of Huangyan Island,” said Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Liu Weimin, using the Chinese name for the disputed shoal.

He added, however, that Chinese fishing boats remained in the area.

Panatag is 123 nautical miles off Masinloc, Zambales, and well within the 200-nautical-mile exclusive zone of the Philippines.

But China claims ownership of the maritime area, which is more than 800 nautical miles from China at its nearest point.

^^ It is the ultra-nationalist voice of the Philippines that made the Chinese do whatever they want.

As if those problems won't be there regardless of whether or not there are American bases here. The Philippines while industrializing is experiencing higher cases of HIV cases. It is only expected from a modernizing country to have that. Continuous liberalization of the economy and the rise in per capita income will give the people more reason to seek personal pleasures. That is something that is not a problem of the Americans.

We are modernizing our armed forces. It's actually faster that usual since we are facing an immediate threat from communist yellow skins up north. Now, with the current state of the AFP, tell me what kind of deterrent are you nationalists proposing?

The Philippines is not the only nation in the world. Soon enough, we won't be looking at ourselves as Filipinos but rather as humans in a big global village. To put too much pride on ourselves will be like swinging our cocks around the world like what Germany and now, China is doing.

I agree. I think that's what Richard Aldington was trying to point out when he said this:
Patriotism is a lively sense of collective responsibility. Nationalism is a silly cock crowing on its own dunghill and calling for larger spurs and brighter beaks. I fear that nationalism is one of England’s many spurious gifts to the world.
Nationalism in its excess, is one that eventually leads to war or imperialism. So it's the more dangerous trait.
Btw, ken, American English? American and English are two separate words;)Itanong mo pa sa kanila:lol::lol::lol:

It has a co-relation...



Don't you know that the Chinese are already dominating us? SM Malls, PAL, Air Philippines, Tanduay, Asia Brewery, Fortune Tobacco, Allied Bank, PNB, Eton, University of the East, etc.

A typical Filipino will study in UE, keeps his savings in PNB or Allied Bank, goes to SM Malls on weekends, works in a call center in Eton Centris, drinks Tanduay and other liquor with friends, smokes Fortune cigarettes on his break time, and goes home to his province via PAL or Air Philippines.

O di ba kumpleto? :lol:





So what are you suggesting? Kick them out?Theyre filipino citizens. Is it their fault for being able to put up secessful businesses? Anyone can do the same even pure filipinos, if ever there is such a thing. Unfortunately kulang sa business acumen eh so what are you insinuating in your post?

All major airlines are owned by fil-chi. So no choice ka unless a pure pinoy puts one up. All major shipping lines are own by fil-chis too, so take a banca if you wanna go somewhere. All major banks are owned by fil-chi, just put your money in ur bamboo alkansya and bury it under your house. Geeshh. Your post is reeking with typical jealousy and crab mentality.

I agree. I think that's what Richard Aldington was trying to point out when he said this:

Nationalism in its excess, is one that eventually leads to war or imperialism. So it's the more dangerous trait.
Btw, ken, American English? American and English are two separate words;)Itanong mo pa sa kanila:lol::lol::lol:

Nasa speech class kasi naman noon, ang sabi American English ang standard na ginagamit sa Pinas kaya parang isang term narin yun. May kasabay na phonetics lessons pa nga yun at ang laki ng difference sa stress at pitch nung dalawa ah. :lol: :nuts:

Looks lik someone here confuses an ethnic chinese from a chinese national :lol: most chinese in the philippines are citizens of the country and migrated BEFORE the communist take over in china. That is why there are "chinese" celebrations here that are not unknown in china.

Mas gusto ko rin na independent ang Pilipinas pagdating sa defence pero saan ka muna hihingi ng tulong pag malubha na ang sitwasyon? sa NATO?
and btw, pwede magtagalog ka na lang kung ganyan din lang ang sagot mo? Kasi yung "Eww Asskisser!" ay hindi rin makabayan eh. Galing sa kano din yan.

Pwede rin! Madali lang naman akong kausapin. Nasagip ko la'ang iyan sa mga bata! 'lam mo naman sa school, tinuturuan ko na nga magbilang sa dialect dahil di alam!

Back to the topic: Dun po sa pagka "makabayan" at yung pagka independente, dalawa lang dapat na aatupagin ng gobiyerno natin--> 1)defend the nation from foreign threats at yung 2) adminstration of justice, peace and order, delivery of basic public services! Nakikisawsaw pa kasi sa mga negosyo eh! Tuloy wala ng pera pambili ng national defense items!

Looks lik someone here confuses an ethnic chinese from a chinese national :lol: most chinese in the philippines are citizens of the country and migrated BEFORE the communist take over in china. That is why there are "chinese" celebrations here that are not unknown in china.

On that note, do you have any idea how our Filipino-Chinese kababayans feel about this conflict re WPS? Is blood really thicker when it comes to a point where they will be made to make choices? Don't mind if you don't feel like answering though.

I could only from videos i have seen. The may 11 protest was supported by the filipino-chinese chamber of commerce

These traitors :bash::bash::bash:

6 of 'Morong 43' rejoin NPA - military
Home Updated June 07, 2012 05:26 PM

CAMP NAKAR, Lucena City – Six of the so-called Morong 43 have rejoined the armed struggle and have linked up with their Southern Tagalog-based comrades, a senior military commander said Thursday.

Col. Ivan Samarita, commander of the Philippine Army's 202nd Infantry Brigade, said the six members of the so-called Morong 43 are now the subject of an ongoing military operations in Southern Tagalog.

Samarita identified them as Janice Javier, Franco Remoroso, Yolanda Macaraig, Myrna Olarte, Romeo dela Cruz and Pearl Irene Martines.

“They are saying they are not NPAs, so this proves they are NPAs. ” Samarita said, adding the military is determined to account the six to prove once and for all that government authorities are right all along in its findings that the "Morong 43" are active NPA members.

Citing intelligence monitoring reports, Samarita said that the six are now armed and are serving as medical staff member of the New People's Army (NPA) in Southern Tagalog.

http://www.philstar.com/nation/article.aspx?publicationsubcategoryid=200&articleid=814936

di sila NPA, rebelde sila

Japan is not allowed to have an aircraft carrier that is why they classify their Hyuuga class as Destroyer.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Hyuga-gata_Goeikan_Sekai-no_Kansen_yoko.svg/750px-Hyuga-gata_Goeikan_Sekai-no_Kansen_yoko.svg.png
Well it has been called a Light AC, a helicopter carrier and a helicopter destroyer by different bodies. Japan calls it a helicopter destroyer. It is a 18,000 ton displacement (full load) ship with a full flight deck without ski jump ramp. This limits it to carrying helicopters and VSTOL aircraft like F-35s and Harriers. In fact with the induction of the F-35s in the near future, this class of vessels will be a formidable force in the Pacific. Maybe this is the best the Japanese can do under their present constitutionally limitations. Moves are afoot to lift/ease these limitations. If that comes about, construction of bigger, more capable carriers (even nuclear powered) will not be difficult for the Japanese. It is all in the threat that the Japanese perceive and the confidence in the ability and the continued desire of the US to support them.

Chinese aircraft carrier Varyag to enter service with China's North Sea Fleet
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20120607000048&cid=1101

The destroyer Harbin, the current flagship of the North Sea Fleet, takes part in a joint exercise with the Russian navy on Apr. 26. (Photo/CNS)

Sources from the PLA Navy have told Duowei News, a website operated by overseas Chinese, that China's first aircraft carrier will enter service with the North Sea Fleet.

Based in Qingdao on the Shandong peninsula, the mission of the North Sea Fleet is to protect the country's coastline between Lianyungang in Jiangsu province and Bohai Bay, including defending Beijing from attacks launched from the sea. Two other ports used by the fleet are Huludao and Lushun, both in the northeastern province of Liaoning. Unlike the East Sea Fleet and South Sea Fleet, the North Sea Fleet has yet to see combat experience.

The Harbin, a Luhu-class destroyer, is the current flagship of the fleet. It has a destroyer division equipped with two Luzhou-class, two Luhu-class and four Luda-class vessels, a frigate division with one Jianghu-class and three Jianghu-II class frigates, as well as a submarine division with four Han-class and one Xia-class nuclear submarines. The fleet also has about 15 to 20 diesel-electric submarines.

Preparing for the commissioning of the country's first aircraft carrier, the North Sea Fleet has two fighter divisions and one bomber division which it hopes to deploy aboard the former Soviet aircraft carrier which China purchased from Ukraine. A carrier-based helicopter group has also recently been established. The PLA Navy Air Force is now training its pilots to take off and land on the deck of the carrier.

"France had spent a decade to develop its own carrier strike group," said Yin Zhou, a retired rear admiral. "Will China take that long to have our own carrier group? It is still a question that has yet to be answered."

Though the South Sea Fleet is seen as the fleet with the greatest potential to engage in a combat situation due to territorial disputes over the South China Sea, it is considered unwise for the Chinese navy to deploy its aircraft carrier in southern waters as this would risk escalating the chances of conflict between China and nations of Southeast Asia.

It is seen as a better option to deploy the Varyag with the North Sea Fleet as it has the capability to provide support to the East Sea Fleet against the a potential intervention of the US Navy in a contingency involving Taiwan. The North Sea Fleet has also been ordered to pay close attention to the development of US naval bases at Sasebo and Okinawa in Japan. The North Sea Fleet would play an important role in an anti-access and area denial campaign against the US Pacific Fleet

We need advance sonar and advanced communication and mapping monitors.

Review priorities
SEARCH FOR TRUTH By Ernesto M. Maceda

The Dept. of National Defense announced a P70-billion modernization plan for the Armed Forces.

There’s no debate about the need to modernize our Armed Forces but the amount looks big considering our limited resources.

To begin with, we don’t need big warships for the Philippine Navy or expensive fighter planes for the Philippine Air Force.

It’s a matter of priorities. Shouldn’t we reduce the P70 billion to P35 billion and instead use the P35 billion in the meantime to get rid of our classroom shortage once and for all?

The Pak im reading?

How about starting to computerize our high schools and buy an initial 2 million computers to be distributed nationwide too?

How about giving PNP the funds to hire an additional 51,000 policemen to achieve the legal ratio of one policeman for every 500 residents?

There’s also a program to build 6 new international airports which should cost about P50 billion. We already have 8 existing international airports. There’s no pressing need for 6 new ones. Devote the P50 billion first to more pressing needs like the modernization of 40 domestic airports and state of the art weather forecasting equipment. How about early flood warning systems?

The LEDAC should examine and review the existing development plans. Big ticket projects which after two years have not been implemented can be postponed and the money used for more pressing problems like upgrading of our existing hydro power plants.

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=814802&publicationSubCategoryId=64

Sabi ko nga ba. There some people has flip flop mind.:bash:

PALACE: NO TEMPORARY BASING RIGHTS FOR US
Manila Standard
http://news.manilastandardtoday.com/2012/06/07/palace-no-temporary-basing-rights-for-us/

MALACAÑANG on Wednesday denied having granted temporary basing rights to the United States, but said American warships were likely to make more requests for port calls given Washington’s move to increase US presence in the Asia-Pacific region.

Presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda said that US vessels would only be allowed to use the naval and air facilities in Subic, Zambales, and in Clarkfield, Pampanga, if joint military exercises were being held.

The US ships, however, would be allowed to make regular port calls for refueling and supply replenishment, Lacierda said, adding that Manila expected an increase in such requests.

Ano ba talaga? :nuts:

di sila NPA, rebelde sila

The NPA is listed as one of the Terrorists groups in the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations).

Chinese aircraft carrier Varyag to enter service with China's North Sea Fleet
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20120607000048&cid=1101

We need advance sonar and advanced communication and mapping monitors.

Dude, this Chinese aircraft carrier will not be patrolling the South China Sea and our disputed territories. It has high priorities in waters near the Korean peninsula, Japan and Taiwan where the US Navy 7th fleet will be passing from.

And you also don't use a sonar on an aircraft carrier because it is not submersible, you use sonars for submarines only.

Though the South Sea Fleet is seen as the fleet with the greatest potential to engage in a combat situation due to territorial disputes over the South China Sea, it is considered unwise for the Chinese navy to deploy its aircraft carrier in southern waters as this would risk escalating the chances of conflict between China and nations of Southeast Asia.

Dude, this Chinese aircraft carrier will not be patrolling the South China Sea and our disputed territories. It has high priorities in waters near the Korean peninsula, Japan and Taiwan where the US Navy 7th fleet will be passing from.

And you also don't use a sonar on an aircraft carrier because it is not submersible, you use sonars for submarines only.

Im referring to Chinese nuclear submarine not aircraft carrier. There is possible those sub entering inside the Philippine many times. And I think those sub might be connection to the mysterious whale that died in a middle of the sea without any clue.

So what are you suggesting? Kick them out?Theyre filipino citizens. Is it their fault for being able to put up secessful businesses? Anyone can do the same even pure filipinos, if ever there is such a thing. Unfortunately kulang sa business acumen eh so what are you insinuating in your post?

All major airlines are owned by fil-chi. So no choice ka unless a pure pinoy puts one up. All major shipping lines are own by fil-chis too, so take a banca if you wanna go somewhere. All major banks are owned by fil-chi, just put your money in ur bamboo alkansya and bury it under your house. Geeshh. Your post is reeking with typical jealousy and crab mentality.

You completely misunderstood my reasoning based on (unaware) Chinese dominance. Read again and comprehend why I made that post in response to another poster's comment!

On that note, do you have any idea how our Filipino-Chinese kababayans feel about this conflict re WPS? Is blood really thicker when it comes to a point where they will be made to make choices? Don't mind if you don't feel like answering though.

They actually feel great about it especially our country being called an inherited state of China means a lot to them.

Im refering to Chinese submarine fleet.

Alright! Because you placed your comment under the Chinese aircraft carrier news that you posted which can really cause a misunderstanding.

These traitors :bash::bash::bash:

6 of 'Morong 43' rejoin NPA - military
Home Updated June 07, 2012 05:26 PM

CAMP NAKAR, Lucena City – Six of the so-called Morong 43 have rejoined the armed struggle and have linked up with their Southern Tagalog-based comrades, a senior military commander said Thursday.

Col. Ivan Samarita, commander of the Philippine Army's 202nd Infantry Brigade, said the six members of the so-called Morong 43 are now the subject of an ongoing military operations in Southern Tagalog.

Samarita identified them as Janice Javier, Franco Remoroso, Yolanda Macaraig, Myrna Olarte, Romeo dela Cruz and Pearl Irene Martines.

“They are saying they are not NPAs, so this proves they are NPAs. ” Samarita said, adding the military is determined to account the six to prove once and for all that government authorities are right all along in its findings that the "Morong 43" are active NPA members.

Citing intelligence monitoring reports, Samarita said that the six are now armed and are serving as medical staff member of the New People's Army (NPA) in Southern Tagalog.

http://www.philstar.com/nation/article.aspx?publicationsubcategoryid=200&articleid=814936

traydor talaga mga commies, di dapat pagkakatiwalaan!!!:ohno:

^^ The military should take photos of these people in NPA camps and show it to the media para magkaalaman at maexpose ang kasingungalingan ng mga yan

^^ Meanwhile, continue one with giving investments to the provinces. These rebels source out their troops from poor folks that til the land day after day.

If the economic growth reaches these people and their income levels rise at the same time, giving them the opportunity to live better, then they would no longer be easily dragged by these leftist rebels.

The way is to bring good economics onto the farmers who need it the most. People in the urban areas are educated enough and live quite better off (lower middle to middle class people) and thus they are less prone to be lured by leftist propaganda.

^^military and investment should go hand in hand. After all, the NPA sabotage and harass businesses in the rural areas to prevent economic growth and spark public anger. The military should be there to protect the businesses and civilians from NPA harassment

These traitors :bash::bash::bash:

6 of 'Morong 43' rejoin NPA - military
Home Updated June 07, 2012 05:26 PM

CAMP NAKAR, Lucena City – Six of the so-called Morong 43 have rejoined the armed struggle and have linked up with their Southern Tagalog-based comrades, a senior military commander said Thursday.

Col. Ivan Samarita, commander of the Philippine Army's 202nd Infantry Brigade, said the six members of the so-called Morong 43 are now the subject of an ongoing military operations in Southern Tagalog.

Samarita identified them as Janice Javier, Franco Remoroso, Yolanda Macaraig, Myrna Olarte, Romeo dela Cruz and Pearl Irene Martines.

“They are saying they are not NPAs, so this proves they are NPAs. ” Samarita said, adding the military is determined to account the six to prove once and for all that government authorities are right all along in its findings that the "Morong 43" are active NPA members.

Citing intelligence monitoring reports, Samarita said that the six are now armed and are serving as medical staff member of the New People's Army (NPA) in Southern Tagalog.

http://www.philstar.com/nation/article.aspx?publicationsubcategoryid=200&articleid=814936

Naalala ko yung ABS-CBN lagi binabalita na yung angle ng story nila ay inosente yang Morong 43 na mga yan.... Dapat ibitay sa plaza mga yan kasama ng mga kasamahan nila sa Party list.

bottom line, we need to choose side, it's either you are with the commies or with our US ally, no fence sitter during the war be it conventional or nuclear,..:ohno:

So what are you suggesting? Kick them out?Theyre filipino citizens. Is it their fault for being able to put up secessful businesses? Anyone can do the same even pure filipinos, if ever there is such a thing. Unfortunately kulang sa business acumen eh so what are you insinuating in your post?

All major airlines are owned by fil-chi. So no choice ka unless a pure pinoy puts one up. All major shipping lines are own by fil-chis too, so take a banca if you wanna go somewhere. All major banks are owned by fil-chi, just put your money in ur bamboo alkansya and bury it under your house. Geeshh. Your post is reeking with typical jealousy and crab mentality.

i don't know what this guy is, is he a filipino or not? or he a commie or what???chinese are not the enemies but those politburo, commies and PLA pirates!!!:ohno:

^^ he is someone that dont have what it takes to understand your point.

^^ he is someone that dont have what it takes to understand your point.

ayaw nyang "kinocontra" o kinocorrect sya. Nung kinorrect ko sya sa pagkakaiba ng ban and boycott, sinabihan ako na wag ko siyang contrahin kahit naglabas ako ng ebidensya na hindi parehas ibig sabihin ng ban at boycott

:lol::lol:

LOL. :lol: :lol: :lol:

What? Chinese carrier enters service? I just read a few months ago that they were gOnna use it as a casino ship or some sort of training ship. These chinese are up to no good!

Long term answer to the remnants of these various insurgencies is not really through military means but simply to continue developing the provinces economically and increasing the PNP and local police forces aswell as more and efficient prosecution by the justice system, it should also be coupled with better government social policies to help improve the lot of citizens in rural area's with simple things like free adult skills education programs to help people find suitable work and make them and the economy more competitive to micro loan schemes to promote entrepreneurship, other things like better government healthcare and other services and amenities like transport facilities to running water and electricity should be brought to the furthest corners of the provinces .

It is imo the lack of governance that allows lawless elements to continue existing and by filling the void providing economic opportunities and fulfilling basic government responsibilities towards it's citizens it can blunt any message of opression or social injustice that these groups use to justify their cause, these npa remnants might now be nothing more than petty criminals and extortionists but there is a real basis of poverty and social inequity in our society for the discontent and the attraction some feel for their cause the same thing goes for the muslims in the south .

What? Chinese carrier enters service? I just read a few months ago that they were gOnna use it as a casino ship or some sort of training ship. These chinese are up to no good!

baka casino-han ng mga military nila

Para sa mga fans ng Great Britain

UK, Phl share desire to end West Phl Sea dispute peacefully (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=815106&publicationSubCategoryId=63)

LONDON – President Aquino believes the United Kingdom shares the Philippines’ desire to see the West Philippine Sea issue with China resolved peacefully through multilateral means.

British Prime Minister David Cameron brought up the contentious matter in his meeting with Aquino on Wednesday at 10 Downing Street.

The President said he discussed a number of issues with Cameron “in a very compressed period of time” and took the opportunity to invite the Prime Minister to the Philippines.

“He inquired about the disputes in the West Philippine Sea. We updated him that... there seems to be a de-escalation already of the situation. Finally, we (China and the Philippines) both agreed on something and the agreement has been carried out – removing of the ships,” Aquino said.

Asked if Cameron appeared sympathetic, Aquino said: “I believe so.”

“It was a very pleasant meeting and very productive. That’s the value of coming here or he coming to us. When you get to meet the head of state on a face-to-face basis, it does solidify what might be existing. There’s a deepening of the relationship... If we were to solicit support later on, of course, it is subject to the geopolitical reality. But it does enhance our ability to come to common ground,” Aquino said.

The President said the withdrawal of both Philippine and Chinese ships from Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal was a product of diplomatic negotiations between the two sides.

Aquino said it was clear from the beginning that both the Philippines and China would like to have the territorial dispute resolved peacefully.

He said it was consoling enough that both parties remained open to negotiations.

But he said even if the Philippines would want a multilateral solution to the issue for the sake of freedom of navigation, as opposed to China’s bilateral approach, Aquino told reporters after his meeting with Cameron that he did not seek any specific assistance from the British government regarding the issue.

“I think my purpose really was just to explain to them our side. We didn’t ask from them assistance in this particular manner and matter,” Aquino said.

“So we demonstrated goodwill to each other already. Perhaps, we can, for the meantime, not drum up international support for our cause at this point in time. Just to provide the best environment for a solution to this entire issue,” he said.

“I think he (Cameron) was just listening,” Aquino said.

“We both agreed to reinvigorate (relations) in many areas, such as by expanding commercial ties, promoting the peaceful settlement of disputes, good governance, maritime cooperation, and strengthening international peace and security,” Aquino said, referring to Philippine-UK relations.

“The Prime Minister and I were both especially encouraged by the extensive economic relations between the Philippines and the United Kingdom,” Aquino said.

“A deep and strong bond also exists between our two peoples, built and reinforced through decades of interaction amongst our officials and people. British investors create jobs that allow many of my countrymen to put food on their table. British clothing and vehicles are enjoyed by Filipino consumers. British engines power Filipino aircraft,” he said.

Aquino said top Filipino banks also have branches in London and Filipino call center agents provided solutions to clients in the UK.

“Filipino nurses offer untiring and genuinely compassionate care for the sick across Great Britain,” he said.

“This is my first official visit to the United Kingdom. I hope that Prime Minister Cameron will soon be the first ever Prime Minister to visit the Philippines,” Aquino said.

Aquino also said he would want Cameron to visit the Philippines as “there’s never been a prime minister of England or Great Britain (who have) visited the Philippines. So he can be... he will be the first.”

But Aquino said the matter must be studied first.

He said they also discussed trade and investment relations between the Philippines and the UK, the biggest Philippine investor among European countries.

“They talked about reinvesting within Asia, the Asia-Pacific region,” Aquino said.

UK investors in the Philippines comprise the biggest group of European investors in the country.

Aquino said he and Cameron also talked about the developments in Myanmar and its leaders, including democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi.

“We want to make... improving situation in Myanmar... prominent,” he said.

The Philippines and Myanmar (formerly Burma) belong to the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN).

The President said the British side also shared its expertise in the public-private partnership program.

“We went to St. Pancras... It’s a train station. It’s one of the stations that connects to the tunnel across (the English Channel),” he said.

St. Pancras International is a major terminal for high-speed rail service and one of the busiest interchange hubs in London. The station is part of the High-Speed 1 railway between St. Pancras in London and the Channel Tunnel, and connects with international high-speed routes between London and Paris, and London and Brussels.

In January, St. Pancras International topped the Passenger Focus “National Passenger Survey” as the “Best Station” with 95 percent of passengers surveyed attesting to its sterling reputation.

Noy in US for Obama meeting
(http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=815090&publicationSubCategoryId=63)
WASHINGTON – President Aquino arrived in this US capital for a three-day visit that officials from both countries hope will revitalize the Philippines-US alliance to meet the challenges of the 21st century.

He looked in good spirits as he shook hands with a small group of Filipinos who welcomed him at Andrews Air Force base on his arrival from London on Wednesday at 8:30 p.m.

Aquino made no statement and proceeded directly to his suite at the Mandarin Oriental, about two miles from the White House.

A press briefing for the Filipino media in Washington scheduled to have been given by Presidential Communications Development and Strategic Planning Secretary Ricky Carandang was scrapped at the last minute without explanation.

American efforts to strengthen and deepen the Phl-US alliance are part of a broader strategy by the Obama administration to increase its strategic engagement and focus in the Asia-Pacific region to counter China’s growing interest and strength in the area.

The security cooperation between both countries is expanding beyond counterterrorism, driven in part by Chinese aggressiveness in the South China Sea or the West Philippine Sea as it is referred to in Manila, US analysts said. The Aquino administration is seeking US help to build a credible maritime defense force.

On his first full day in Washington on Thursday, Aquino will meet with business leaders including those from Sithe Global and Denham Capital, equity investors of GN Power Mariveles Coal Plant in Bataan, and Underwriters Laboratories, an Illinois-based company involved in the safety science industry.

He will visit the Quantico Marine Corps base, an hour’s drive in Virginia, attend a Senate reception at Capitol Hill and grace the inaugural dinner of the newly formed US-Philippines Society whose $250-a-plate cover charge has upset the less affluent members of the Filipino community in the area.

They said they wanted to see Aquino at the dinner since his tight itinerary precluded his usual meet and greet session with them.

At the Senate, Aquino will meet Senate President Pro-Tempore Daniel Inouye, who is also chairman of the committee on appropriations, Republican Sen. William Thad Cochran, a member of the committee on appropriations, Democratic Sen. John Kerry, chairman of the committee on foreign relations, and Republican Sen. Richard Lugar, a member of the committee on foreign relations.

“The senators would want to hear about the Aquino administration’s efforts to fight corruption and promote good governance,” said Philippine ambassador to Washington Jose Cuisia.

“There will also be discussions on our bilateral, economic and defense cooperation, the shift in the focus of the United States toward the Asia-Pacific and ways to revitalize our alliance, he said.

The final day of President Aquinos official visit on Friday will be taken up with a one-on-one with President Barack Obama at the White House Oval Office after a luncheon in his honor given by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

No new US bases

A US official said Washington saw Aquino as a leader who is “trying to do the right thing” to tackle the corruption, cronyism and red tape that have held back the economy of his nation of 93 million people.

But the United States is moving cautiously in solidifying defense ties with Manila. The Philippines evicted the US military from Subic Bay Naval Station in 1992, and nationalist sentiment remains high.

Even as it fought wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States kept more than 70,000 troops in a network of military bases in Japan and South Korea that date back to the 1950s.

The Obama policy has focused on Southeast Asia and crafting flexible arrangements with other allies in Asia, Australia and the Philippines, and ship visits to Singapore and Vietnam.

No new US bases are envisioned under this scheme, although 2,500 US troops will rotate through and train in Darwin, Australia. Any new arrangements with the Philippines would be smaller than the Australian program, US officials say.

Carandang disses Pinoy press in Washington

One of the first things Carandang did on arrival was to diss the Filipino press based in Washington, not to mention the media people who came directly from Manila to cover Aquinos three-day official visit here.

Carandang was scheduled to brief the press at the media center set up for Filipinos at the Holiday Inn Capitol, near the Mandarin Oriental where the presidential party is billeted.

Instead he sent Ray Marfil, who explained his boss was too tired to make an appearance. Besides, Marfil said, Carandang had given an extensive briefing before the presidential party left London for Washington.

Nothing new, really. But it's still a morale booster

US Senate OKs enhanced defense ties (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=815089&publicationSubCategoryId=63)

MANILA, Philippines - The United States Senate unanimously passed on Tuesday a resolution calling for increased defense and security cooperation with the Philippines.

The US Senate’s gesture was meant to demonstrate Washington’s commitment to honor its Mutual Defense Treaty (MDT) with the Philippines.

The Philippine embassy in Washington said Senate Resolution 481, sponsored by Sen. Richard Lugar (Republican, Indiana), was approved unanimously by the chamber on the eve of the three-day official working visit to Washington of President Aquino.

The US Senate resolution came amid efforts by the Philippine government to drum up support against China’s incursion in Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal off Zambales. Chinese vessels have remained in the area since April 10 when the standoff began.

Philippine Ambassador to the US Jose Cuisia Jr. welcomed the adoption of the resolution, which Lugar introduced in commemoration of the 60th anniversary of the MDT.

The treaty, signed on Aug. 30, 1951, requires both nations to support each other if either is attacked.

“This is a very positive development that further underscores the importance the United States places on its alliance with the Philippines,” Cuisia said. “The Filipino people greatly appreciate this gesture by our friends in the United States Senate.”

Cuisia said the resolution calls for increased cooperation and enhanced bilateral security ties between the two countries, including support for Philippine defense modernization, the rotational presence of US forces on Philippine soil, and increased joint humanitarian and disaster relief

preparedness activities.

The resolution also urged Washington to continue efforts to assist Manila in the areas of maritime security, maritime domain awareness, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief and related communications infrastructure to enhance information sharing and overall military professionalism.

The resolution cited the support the US government recently extended to the Philippines, including the delivery to the Philippine Navy of two decommissioned US Coast Guard cutters, as well as the assistance provided by US forces in recent calamities in the country.

It also cited the April 30, 2012 meetings of US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Defense Secretary Leon Panetta with Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario and Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin during which the two US officials declared that Washington remains [fully committed to honoring mutual obligations with the Philippines and that the alliance continues to serve as a pillar of the Philippines-US relationship and a source of stability in the region.”

The resolution also underscored the shared interest of the two countries “in maintaining freedom of navigation, unimpeded lawful commerce and transit of people across the seas and subscribe to a rules-based approach in resolving competing claims in maritime areas through peaceful, collaborative, multilateral and diplomatic processes within the framework of international law.”

“The Senate confirms the alliance’s centrality and enduring value as one of the key pillars of peace, stability and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific region and as a key tool in addressing the emerging security environment in the region,” the resolution read.

The US Senate, through its resolution, also called on Manila and Washington to continue high-level consultations.

Senators John Kerry (Democrat, Massachusetts), James Inhofe (Republican, Oklahoma), Jim Webb (Democrat, Virginia), Kelly Ayotte (Democrat, New Hampshire), Tad Cochran (Republican, Mississippi) and Daniel Inouye (Democrat, Hawaii) co-sponsored the resolution.

In a statement released by his office, Lugar said: “The United States-Philippines relationship represents shared sacrifice in defense of freedom. While historically we have worked well together on multiple fronts, it is necessary that the two countries discern new ways to expand trade, account for their mutual defense and promote stability throughout the region.”

I wish i was "in the know" of what america is planning. because like those submarines that just appeared suddenly, i do believe they got their eyes set on china. And I do believe that they are setting things up without knowledge of Pinoy authorities.

^^ I think it's better that way knowing how our politicians think. Too much machismo. :lol:

dala ata nung mga kano yung phil flag :lol:

http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/globalnation.inquirer.net/files/2012/06/600x363xpnoyUS_1.jpg.pagespeed.ic.PYxEiZWyWp.jpg

Aquino, Obama to tackle China (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/39171/aquino-obama-to-tackle-china)

WASHINGTON—President Benigno Aquino arrived here on Wednesday night (Thursday morning in Manila) for a visit that will highlight the Philippines’ growing importance in American strategic thinking as the United States “pivots” to Asia and both countries worry about China’s intentions.

US President Barack Obama will receive Mr. Aquino at the Oval Office on Friday afternoon (Saturday morning in Manila) for discussions expected to center on China’s increasing aggressiveness in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

A day before Mr. Aquino’s arrival in the US capital, the US Senate passed a resolution calling for increased American defense and security cooperation with the Philippines, including support for the modernization of the Philippine military.

A US official said Washington saw Mr. Aquino as a leader who was “trying to do the right thing” to tackle the corruption, cronyism and red tape that have held back the economy of his nation of 93 million people.

Mr. Aquino’s plane—a chartered Philippine Airlines Airbus A340—landed at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland at 8:19 p.m. Eastern time (8:19 a.m. Thursday in Manila) from London’s Heathrow Airport.

Philippine Ambassador to the United States Jose Cuisia Jr., embassy staff members and a throng of well-wishers from the Filipino-American community in Washington welcomed Mr. Aquino.

Instead of boarding the presidential limousine after the reception of the honor guard, Mr. Aquino walked straight to meet his supporters at the edge of the tarmac, sending US Secret Service agents and official vehicles scrambling after him.

US Air Force personnel said it was “uncommon” for heads of state to approach well-wishers, with most boarding their vehicles at the foot of the ramp.

Mr. Aquino’s gesture sent his welcomers cheering. “We love you, P-Noy,” some shouted. “Mabuhay si P-Noy,” others cheered. (P-Noy is the president’s moniker.)

First White House meet

The President and Obama have met four times over the last two years, but never in the White House. This is the first time that the US leader is officially playing host to Mr. Aquino.

The meeting at the Oval Office will lay the groundwork for the future of the strategic partnership between the Philippines and the United States, Ambassador Cuisia said.

He said the two leaders would discuss global, regional and domestic issues, including those affecting bilateral relations.

“They will also be covering more specifically military and security cooperation, economic cooperation, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief, people-to-people exchanges or people-to-people ties,” Cuisia said in an interview.

“But they will also, I’m sure, be talking about the West Philippine Sea as part of the maritime security discussions,” he said.

Mr. Aquino will also meet senior US lawmakers for “discussions on our bilateral economic and defense cooperation, the shift in the focus of the United States toward the Asia-Pacific and ways to revitalize our alliance,” Cuisia said in a statement from the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) in Manila.

Senate resolution

On Tuesday, the US Senate passed Resolution No. 481 calling for increased defense and security cooperation with the Philippines. The measure was sponsored by Senator Richard Lugar in commemoration of the 60th anniversary of the Mutual Defense Treaty between the Philippines and the United States.

Senators John Kerry, James Inhofe, Jim Webb, Kelly Ayotte, Tad Cochran and Daniel Inouye also sponsored the resolution. They called on Manila and Washington to continue high-level consultations.

The DFA statement quoted Cuisia as saying that the Senate resolution “calls for increased cooperation and enhanced bilateral security ties between the two countries, including support for Philippine defense modernization, the rotational presence of US forces and increased humanitarian and disaster relief preparedness.”

“It also urged Washington to continue its efforts to assist Manila in the areas of maritime security, maritime domain awareness, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief and related communications infrastructure to enable enhanced information sharing and overall military professionalism,” Cuisia said.

Importance of alliance

“This is a very positive development that further underscores the importance the United States places on its alliance with the Philippines,” he said. “The Filipino people greatly appreciate this gesture by our friends in the United States.”

Washington’s “rebalancing” of forces to the Asia-Pacific region, a post-Cold War strategy two decades in the making, has accelerated under the Obama administration in response to China’s rapid military modernization and growing assertiveness in the region.

60% of naval fleet

The Obama policy has focused on Southeast Asia and crafting flexible arrangements with other allies in Asia, Australia and the Philippines, and ship visits to Singapore and Vietnam.

No new US bases are envisioned, although 2,500 US troops will rotate through and train in Darwin, Australia. Any new arrangements with the Philippines would be smaller than the Australian program, US officials said.

US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said at a security forum in Singapore last weekend that the United States would reposition its naval fleet so 60 percent of its battleships would be in the Asia-Pacific by the end of the decade, up from about 50 percent now.

The plan drew a pledge from China’s People’s Liberation Army to increase its vigilance.

In upgrading its military capability to protect its interest in disputed areas of the West Philippine Sea, Manila has been looking to Washington for ships, aircraft and surveillance equipment to build a credible defense posture.

New urgency

After high-level bilateral security and diplomatic talks in late April, the Obama administration pledged to increase its annual foreign military sales to the Philippines to $30 million, about three times the level of the 2011 program.

“We’ve been working with the Philippines on military modernization for 12 or 13 years, very intensively,” said Walter Lohman, a Southeast Asia expert at Heritage Foundation, a conservative Washington think tank.

“The only thing that has changed is the urgency of this and the seriousness the Philippines has shown under the Aquino administration,” he said.

Manila’s new urgency stems from a standoff with China at the Scarborough Shoal, a horseshoe-shaped reef near the Philippines in waters both countries claim. Since April 8, two Philippine civilian vessels have been facing off with nearly 100 Chinese vessels at the shoal.

Discussions between Mr. Aquino and Obama are expected to touch on the standoff.

US investors

On Thursday morning (Friday night in Manila), Mr. Aquino will meet US businessmen and prospective investors at the Mandarin Oriental Hotel.

Among those who will be present are top officials of power firm Sithe Global, which operates two 300-megawatt coal-fired power plants in Mariveles, Bataan; Denham Capital, a private equity firm specializing in energy and commodity investments; and electricity generation firm GN Power.

Mr. Aquino will also meet with officials of Underwriters Laboratories, the company that uses the “UL” trademark, specializing in the testing of electronic products, in the hope of enticing them to set up operations in the Philippines.

At 11 a.m., he will be interviewed by senior editors of Washington Post, after which he will proceed to the Quantico Marine Corps base in Virginia, which also houses the training facilities of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Cuisia said at least one Philippine law enforcer was currently undergoing training at the FBI Academy, and that Mr. Aquino hoped to convince the US government to increase the number of slots allotted to Filipino police trainees.

US lawmakers

Mr. Aquino will meet US senators led by Inouye, the deputy Senate president and chair of the powerful appropriations committee.

“These senators are, of course, interested in the broad relationship between the Philippines and the United States,” Cuisia said.

“But more specifically, they also have expressed interest in what’s going on in the West Philippine Sea. They would like to listen to our President and find out what are the current developments in the West Philippine Sea.”

On Thursday night, Mr. Aquino will grace the dinner launch of the new lobby group US-Philippines Society. With reports from Tina G. Santos and AP

Chinese frown on bully lords (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?publicationSubCategoryId=64&articleId=815070)

China’s communist leaders employ bully tactics for domestic acceptance and regional dominance. This is evident in Beijing’s treatment of dissident citizens, and its military muscle-flexing and trade sanctions in the wake of the Scarborough Shoal standoff. But the Chinese frown on bullying. Historical accounts extol those who stand up to bullies. Two such accounts pertain to Lin Xiangru, a high minister of Zhao during the Period of the Warring Kingdoms (476-221 BC).

The first story is about “Returning the Jade Intact to Zhao.” Though a puny state, Zhao was the keeper of the fabled He Shi Bi (Jade Disc of He), a perfect gemstone named after its discoverer Bian He. In 283 BC King Zhaoxiang of the mighty Qin domain coveted the jewel and offered Zhao fifteen cities for it (coining the saying, “valued at multiple cities”). Minister Lin Xiangru was dispatched to Qin to deliver the He Shi Bi, although he knew that his king felt very sad parting with it. At the Qin court Lin Xiangru learned that King Zhaoxiang’s offer was insincere. The gift cities were in fact preparing to invade Zhao at the king’s signal. Lin Xiangru sought an audience with King Zhaoxiang, to “confess” that the jade had a flaw. Scrutinizing the disc, the king could find no scar, so handed it to Lin Xiangru to show him where. Whereupon, Lin Xiangru grabbed the gemstone, threatening to smash it unless King Zhaoxiang agreed to delay the swap for three days. Lin Xiangru secretly ordered his servants to take the jade back to their kingdom (originating the idiom, “returning the jade intact to Zhao,” meaning, returning a possession to its rightful owner). Embarrassed that Lin Xiangru got the better of him, the bullying King Zhaoxiang had to spare his life and call off the invasion.

The other tale is about the aftermath of Lin Xiangru’s shaming the powerful Qin king. He earned fame throughout the warring states, and was elevated to chief minister of Zhao. Many courtiers were jealous of his success, foremost of whom was the old general Lian Po. One of the fiercest commanders at the time, Lian Po was so envious of Lin Xiangru that he swore hostility. Word reached Lin Xiangru, who deemed it best to avoid confrontation with Lian Po. When Lian Po’s carriage was going down the street, Lin Xiangru’s cortege, though with right of way, would back out to let Lian Po pass. Many saw it as a sign of weakness. Even Lian Po thought that the scholarly Lin Xiangru was afraid to fight a warrior like him. Lin Xiangru’s retinue began to grumble about his subservience to the general, and demanded an explanation. The chief minister replied: “The feud between Lian Po and me is a personal one, but I am in charge of the nation’s government, and he the nation’s security; I cannot let my personal life ruin that of the kingdom!” Upon learning of it, all Lian Po’s hatred melted to shame. He strapped brambles on his bare shoulders and walked from his house to Lin Xiangru’s to beg forgiveness.

(Many thanks to reader Wilson Y.L. for the research assistance.)

* * *

The US Department of Defense is reconsidering the return to the Philippines of the Bells of Balangiga. Custody of the three bells has been an irritant in Philippine-American relations, and plans were made but ditched ten years back for their repatriation. The relics were taken as war trophy from the church of Balangiga town in Samar 110 years ago. The DOD is consulting officials in Washington, DC, Wyoming, and Manila about reviving the plans, according to a recent Wyoming News report.

Two of the bells have been on display for over a century at Fort D.A. Russell in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Now named F.E. Warren Air Force Base, it is the home of the US Army Ninth infantry Regiment that took the relics from the Philippines in 1901. The third bell travels with the Ninth Regiment, stationed in Korea when Philippine and US officials discussed the return in the last decade.

The regiment took the bells in retaliation for an “unprovoked attack” by Filipino insurgents that killed 48 US soldiers. Supposedly the attackers had used the bells to signal their dawn assault, the justification for treatment as war booty. Aside from disputing some historical details, the Philippines scoffs at the “unprovoked” label. Filipinos then were fighting for independence, and had routed the Spanish colonial army in Manila in 1898 when the Americans intervened to grab victory. After an uneasy truce, war broke out between the Philippines and the US in 1899-1902. In the “pacification” of Samar, the US Army slaughtered all males, even pre-teens, capable of carrying a gun, turning the island into a “howling wilderness.”

In the Wyoming News report, a defense spokeswoman confirmed that the Pentagon is talking to officials in the US and abroad for the return of the bells. She acknowledged that the relics have deep meaning for both sides. Regimental officers and US veterans view giving up the bells as a dishonor to fallen comrades. Filipino political, religious and civic leaders, academics and historians are as adamant for the return to honor the freedom fighters.

The US regards the war trophies as federal property, and only the Defense secretary has authority to move them. The Philippines deems the relics as national heritage. The Ramos and Arroyo administrations had discussed with Clinton and Bush counterparts the option of getting one each of the bells in Wyoming. The third would be halved and recast with new metal, so the allies would end each up with one-and-a-half bells. Critics from both sides were aghast at the “un-Solomonic solution.”

4cr-SdmLQKg&feature

An MI17 in the Phillippines i really hope the PAF acquires a few MI 17 V5 version models .

^^ i actually love the Mi-17. :) it depends on us though if we're willing to break away from our usual preference for Western-made weapons and equipment. ;)

wait! we already have Polish-made W-3 Sokol helicopters in the Air Force. hmmmmm... would that open the path for the Mi-17? who knows, right? :naughty: ;)

I would prefer NH90's or something else of course but it's too expensive in comparison and more complicated to maintain for the PAF at this time so imo the MI17 is the next best choice for a cheap but effective medium lift helicopter, anyway one can hope .

With foot in Washington and eye on China, Aquino looks to recalibrate Philippines-US relations
Interaksyon
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/34157/with-foot-in-washington-and-eye-on-china-aquino-looks-to-recalibrate-philippines-us-relations

WASHINGTON - Philippine President Benigno Aquino III arrived in the United States on Wednesday for a visit that will highlight the Southeast Asian archipelago's growing importance in US strategic thinking, as the White House "pivots" to Asia and both countries worry about China's intentions.

Aquino, well-regarded by the US government, not least for his battles against corruption, is being accorded a White House meeting on Friday with President Barack Obama.

That meeting comes as Washington has begun helping Manila beef up its modest military capacities in the face of a confrontation with China over contested South China Sea reefs.

The United States, colonial ruler of the Philippines from 1898-1946 and a treaty ally with Manila since 1951, has embraced the Philippines as part of a policy that makes the Asia-Pacific region the center of US security and economic strategy.

"The meeting between President Aquino and President Obama will lay the groundwork for the future of the strategic partnership between the Philippines and the United States," said Jose Cuisia, the Philippines ambassador in Washington.

Aquino will also meet senior US lawmakers for "discussions on our bilateral economic and defense cooperation, the shift in the focus of the United States toward the Asia-Pacific and ways to revitalize our alliance," the envoy said in a statement.

Washington's "rebalancing" of forces to the Asia-Pacific region, a post-Cold War strategy two decades in the making, has accelerated under the Obama administration as a response to China's rapid military modernization and growing assertiveness in that region.

A US official said Washington saw Aquino as a leader who is "trying to do the right thing" to tackle the corruption, cronyism and red tape that have held back the economy of his nation of 93 million people.

But the United States is moving cautiously in solidifying defense ties with Manila. The Philippines evicted the US military from Naval Station Subic Bay in 1992, and nationalist sentiment remains high.

No new US bases

Even as it fought wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States kept more than 70,000 troops in a network of military bases in Japan and South Korea that date back to the 1950s.

The Obama policy has focused on Southeast Asia and crafting flexible arrangements with other allies in Asia, Australia and the Philippines, and ship visits to Singapore and Vietnam.

No new US bases are envisioned under this scheme, although 2,500 US troops will rotate through and train in Darwin, Australia. Any new arrangements with the Philippines would be smaller than the Australian program, US officials say.

US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said last weekend the Pentagon will reposition its naval fleet so 60 percent of its battleships are in the Asia-Pacific region by the end of the decade, up from about 50 percent now. The move drew a pledge from China's People's Liberation Army to increase its vigilance.

In upgrading its military capability to protect its interests in disputed areas of the South China Sea, Manila has been looking to Washington for ships, aircraft and surveillance and equipment to build a credible defense posture.

After high-level bilateral security and diplomatic talks in late April, the Obama administration pledged to increase its annual foreign military sales program to the Philippines to $30 million, about three times the level of the 2011 program.

"We've been working with the Philippines on military modernization for 12 or 13 years, very intensively," said Walter Lohman, a Southeast Asia expert at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative Washington think tank.

"The only thing that has changed is the urgency of this and the seriousness the Philippines has shown under the Aquino administration," he said.

US balancing act

Manila's new urgency stems from a months-long showdown with China at the Scarborough Shoal, a horse-shoe shaped reef near the Philippines in waters both countries claim.

The United States is formally neutral on South China Sea territorial issues, complex disputes which also pit China against Vietnam and other Southeast Asian nations.

Washington, however, has promoted multilateral diplomacy to handle the disputes - challenging China's insistence on bilateral talks with its weaker neighbors.

"The United States has the dilemma of balancing the many, many vital interests we have in our relations with China, with our interests in Southeast Asia and it really is a balancing act," said Southeast Asia security expert Don Weatherbee.

Weatherbee, emeritus professor at the University of South Carolina, said that while Manila could not expect a "blank check" from Washington in a territorial conflict with Beijing, US credibility would face scrutiny.

"It's not just a question of US-Philippines relations. It's a question of the American security guarantee in East Asia and the Asia-Pacific and what is actually meant by the word guarantee," he said.

This week's meetings in Washington will also take up the prospect of the Philippines joining the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a free trade pact in the Asia Pacific region with nine members that is also examining applications by Japan, Canada and Mexico.

Why should we acquire the Mi-17? Isn't the Sokol already a medium lift helicopter? The Sokol is really not intended to replace the Huey which is a light lift helicopter because of the huge difference in the performance specifications.

^^ Instead of the base, gawin nalang repair/maintenance facilities ng mga allies natin.

Tumama ka pre sa gusto mo mangyari...

MALACAÑANG on Wednesday denied having granted temporary basing rights to the United States, but said American warships were likely to make more requests for port calls given Washington’s move to increase US presence in the Asia-Pacific region.

Presidential spokesman Edwin Lacierda said that US vessels would only be allowed to use the naval and air facilities in Subic, Zambales, and in Clarkfield, Pampanga, if joint military exercises were being held.

The US ships, however, would be allowed to make regular port calls for refueling and supply replenishment, Lacierda said, adding that Manila expected an increase in such requests.

http://news.manilastandardtoday.com/2012/06/07/palace-no-temporary-basing-rights-for-us/

bottom line, we need to choose side, it's either you are with the commies or with our US ally, no fence sitter during the war be it conventional or nuclear,..:ohno:

You can be neutral in any given war like Sweden. :cheers:

"You can be neutral in any given war like Sweden. :cheers:"


^ You mean Switzerland?

Naalala ko yung ABS-CBN lagi binabalita na yung angle ng story nila ay inosente yang Morong 43 na mga yan.... Dapat ibitay sa plaza mga yan kasama ng mga kasamahan nila sa Party list.

^^ may nagawa rin naman palang tama yun arroyo admin totoo ngang mga NPA ang mga loko, di gaya ng mga media release ng ABias-CBN na harassment, napagbintangan lang at mga medical workers ang nahuli ng militar noon... Nakakatawa at yun current admin ang nakuryente dahil naloko sila ng mga paawa effect ng Morong 43...

naalala ko rin may documentary ang ABS-CBN about dun sa pagbubuntis ng isa sa mga nadetain... sinamahan pa nila hangang check up at birth yata yun...

Bell UH-1 Iroquois (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_UH-1_Iroquois)

Crew: 1-4
Capacity: 3,880 lb including 14 troops, or 6 stretchers, or equivalent cargo
Length: 57 ft 1 in (17.40 m) with rotors
Width: 8 ft 7 in (2.62 m) (Fuselage)
Height: 14 ft 5 in (4.39 m)
Maximum speed: 135 mph (217 km/h; 117 kn)
Cruise speed: 125 mph (109 kn; 201 km/h)
Range: 315 mi (274 nmi; 507 km)

PZL W-3 Sokół (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_W-3_Sok%C3%B3%C5%82)

Crew: 1 or 2 (pilots plus pilot or flight engineer)
Capacity: 12 passengers
SAR: three medical attendants and eight rescued survivors
Air Ambulance: four stretchers and one medical attendant
EMS: one stretcher and medical attendants
Executive: five or six passengers
military W-3WA: ten armed soldiers
Length: 14.21 m (46 ft 8 in)
Rotor diameter: 15.70 m (51 ft 6 in)
Height: 5.14 m (16 ft 10 in)
Maximum speed: 260 km/h, 161 mph (knots)
Cruise speed: 234 km/h, 145 mph (131 knots)
Range: 745 km (402 nm, 463 mi)

Mil Mi-17 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-17)

Crew: Three – two pilots and one engineer
Capacity: 30 troops or 12 stretchers or 4,000 kg (8,820 lb) cargo internally /5,000 kg (11,023 lb) externally slung.
Length: 18.465 m (60 ft 7 in)
Rotor diameter: 21.25 m (69 ft 10½ in)
Height: 4.76 m (15 ft 7¼ in)
Maximum speed: 250 km/h (135 knots, 155 mph)
Range: 465 km (251 nmi, 289 mi) (standard fuel)

The Sokol can outrun and outlast the Mi-17 in terms of speed and range!

"You can be neutral in any given war like Sweden. :cheers:"


^ You mean Switzerland?

Nope, Sweden is also a war neutral country as declared by their constitution.

Swedish neutrality refers to Sweden's policy of neutrality in armed conflicts, which has been in effect since the early 19th century. The policy originated largely as a result of Sweden's involvement in the Napoleonic Wars during which over a third of the country's territory was lost, including the traumatic loss of Finland to Russia. Resentment towards the old king precipitated a coup d'état and the new regime formulated a new foreign policy which became known as The Policy of 1812. Since the time of the Napoleonic Wars, Sweden has not initiated any direct armed combat. However, Sweden's military and government have been involved in major peacekeeping actions and other military support functions around the world. The accession to the European Union in 1995 meant that neutrality as a principle was abolished. Sweden is still today a non-aligned country in regards to foreign and security policy, however it maintains strong links to NATO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_neutrality

Sweden during World War II maintained a policy of neutrality. When the Second World War began on September 1, 1939, the fate of Sweden was unclear. But by a combination of its geopolitical location in the Scandinavian Peninsula, successful realpolitik maneuvering during an unpredictable course of events, and a dedicated military build-up after 1942, Sweden managed to maintain its official neutrality throughout the war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_during_World_War_II

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-V5lWNAwN_Ak/TZe5H-ziZ6I/AAAAAAAAAIY/7-CunKJDnjY/s1600/avgripen_1.jpg

Ironically, Sweden is currently listed #8 in the World's largest arms exporters!

Ping cautions DND on allowing US troops to use Subic, Clark (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=815110&publicationSubCategoryId=63)
By Christina Mendez (The Philippine Star) Updated June 08, 2012 12:00 AM

MANILA, Philippines - Sen. Panfilo Lacson yesterday cautioned the Department of National Defense (DND) against allowing American troops to use their former naval and air facilities in Subic, Zambales and Clark Field in Pampanga.

Lacson pointed out that under the Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA) between the Philippines and the United States, there is a clear provision that the American forces cannot have permanent or semi-permanent basing privileges in the country.

“That is provided in the VFA. The VFA does not say if they have basing and access there. The agreement, the VFA, is only temporary, only if there are military exercises. If you station the troops there semi-permanently at Clark and Subic, that is the problem,” Lacson said.

Sen. Joker Arroyo said the plan to station troops there would cause disastrous consequences for the country.

“That would be problematic... because it would be enlarging the coverage of the VFA to more than what is printed,” Arroyo said.

Lacson said there is a need to go back to the treaty to ensure that recent developments will still be in accordance with the VFA.

“We must make it clear what are the intentions of the treaty. Like now, the VFA is very clear that it is not a basing agreement. We are not allowed to have (foreign military) bases here, even if it is semi-permanent,” Lacson said.

He said any actions that will not be in consonance with the VFA would need amendments.

Senators Francis Escudero and Gregorio Honasan, however, shared different views.

“As long as it is not a permanent base, I guess (it’s okay),” Escudero said in a text message to reporters.

The senators had mixed reactions on the statement made by Defense Undersecretary Honorio Azcueta, who revealed that US forces could come, provided that they have prior coordination with the government.

Lacson and Honasan, however, have open minds on the possibility of the Philippine government striking a mutual defense treaty (MDT) with the People’s Republic of China.

“Why not? If I may suggest, and I really suggested this in one of the meetings with DFA (Department of Foreign Affairs), why don’t we take the initiative to forge a mutual defense treaty with China? After all, they are our neighbors in Asia,” Lacson said.

Lacson said it is better if the Philippines enjoys the support of the world’s top superpowers – the US and China.

“It would be beneficial to us to have two big brothers on our side instead of one. This is to avoid any animosity and controversies. If allowed, I think China will welcome the idea to have MDT with them,” Lacson said.

A senator has realized the bad effects of US bases in our country!

Sen. Joker Arroyo said the plan to station troops there would cause disastrous consequences for the country.

damn that Honasan and murderer Lacson sila na lang kaya dalawa makipag MDT sa pirata:bash:

i've seen the news of Pinoy's visit to UK and the US, in fairness ha the president looks neat and presentable this time. mas bagay sa kanya buhok nya, he looks neat and younger.

i've seen the news of Pinoy's visit to UK and the US, in fairness ha the president looks neat and presentable this time. mas bagay sa kanya buhok nya, he looks neat and younger.

It seems Pnoy did not window shop for British armaments...

Ping cautions DND on allowing US troops to use Subic, Clark (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=815110&publicationSubCategoryId=63)
By Christina Mendez (The Philippine Star) Updated June 08, 2012 12:00 AM



A senator has realized the bad effects of US bases in our country!

But he didn't realized the effect on our defense capability when the MORON 12 voted to oust the US. Heck this Senators didn't do anything to make this country defense ready.

from http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=815110&publicationSubCategoryId=63 also

Lacson and Honasan, however, have open minds on the possibility of the Philippine government striking a mutual defense treaty (MDT) with the People’s Republic of China.

“Why not? If I may suggest, and I really suggested this in one of the meetings with DFA (Department of Foreign Affairs), why don’t we take the initiative to forge a mutual defense treaty with China? After all, they are our neighbors in Asia,” Lacson said.

Lacson said it is better if the Philippines enjoys the support of the world’s top superpowers – the US and China.

No wonder the US don't trust us.

Why would we have a defense treaty with China when they are almost directly threatening us with their war rhetoric and disrespecting our EEZ and territory? Doing so will be like us jumping in a pit full of zhit. It would be better if we have an MDT with either Vietnam, Korea or Japan.

If the CCP is overthrown and China changes its attitude towards, why not. But currently. NO. Why will we have an MDT with the politburo that is threatening us and harassing us?

But he didn't realized the effect on our defense capability when the MORON 12 voted to oust the US. Heck this Senators didn't do anything to make this country defense ready.

from http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=815110&publicationSubCategoryId=63 also

Lacson and Honasan, however, have open minds on the possibility of the Philippine government striking a mutual defense treaty (MDT) with the People’s Republic of China.

“Why not? If I may suggest, and I really suggested this in one of the meetings with DFA (Department of Foreign Affairs), why don’t we take the initiative to forge a mutual defense treaty with China? After all, they are our neighbors in Asia,” Lacson said.

Lacson said it is better if the Philippines enjoys the support of the world’s top superpowers – the US and China.

No wonder the US don't trust us.

Please, don't embolden the letters. I missed "forge" with "forgo"!:lol::lol::lol:

OT: Is Lacson up for re-election next year?

Why would we have a defense treaty with China when they are almost directly threatening us with their war rhetoric and disrespecting our EEZ and territory? Doing so will be like us jumping in a pit full of zhit. It would be better if we have an MDT with either Vietnam, Korea or Japan.

If the CCP is overthrown and China changes its attitude towards, why not. But currently. NO. Why will we have an MDT with the politburo that is threatening us and harassing us?

I wouldnt trust neither the CCP nor the Kuomintang which is actually the other chinese government. since they both claim scarborough shoal based on the probably fake ancient chinese maps.

LAcson is either crazy or stupid? hasnt he been following the news or arent the DFA updates enough for him the realize that the Chinese cannot be trusted! mukhang pampabango lang niya yan sa ibang pilipino who are afraid to agitate mighty china.

The Sokol can outrun and outlast the Mi-17 in terms of speed and range!

( Range: 465 km (251 nmi, 289 mi) (standard fuel) )

I doubt they would merely be used for racing purposes but in terms of speed the difference is minimal to the point of being irrelevant, as for range the figures you show here are based on it's own basic fuel tanks the MI 17 however can carry external fuel tanks to increase range .



MI 17 Range

On each side of the fuselage there is a pylon for an external fuel tank with a total capacity of 1830 litres both.

Normal Load: 495 km
With Aux Fuel: 1,065 km

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/mi-17.htm


The Sokols are light helicopters they have their role to play but the PAF is still sorely lacking medium and or heavy lift helicopter capability and as ive said i would much rather see the PAF equipped with NH90's or Merlins but those are too expensive for the PAF to procure and complicated to maintain at this time, the MI 17 V5 is the next best choice .

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/kevan_vogler/mi-171_hip/images/mi-171_hip_06_of_10.jpg
http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/kevan_vogler/mi-171_hip/images/mi-171_hip_06_of_10.jpg

Lacson and Honasan, however, have open minds on the possibility of the Philippine government striking a mutual defense treaty (MDT) with the People’s Republic of China.

“Why not? If I may suggest, and I really suggested this in one of the meetings with DFA (Department of Foreign Affairs), why don’t we take the initiative to forge a mutual defense treaty with China? After all, they are our neighbors in Asia,” Lacson said.

Lacson said it is better if the Philippines enjoys the support of the world’s top superpowers – the US and China.

No wonder the US don't trust us.

Why not? If the deal will include China giving up their stupid claim to Scarborough (Panatag), Mischief (Panganiban), and Kalayaan Islands (Philippine-occupied portion of Spratlys) in favor of the Philippines.

As much as possible we should be friendly to all especially the superpowers. Even Indonesia is a non-aligned nation.

Deadly Drone Strike on Muslims in the Southern Philippines
http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2012/03/05-drones-philippines-ahmed
Is anyone know about this yet?

Not sure but I think that was the smart bombs reported earlier and the target are not Muslims, but terrorists. In fact in that event, FOREIGN terrorists were killed.

PZL W-3 Sokół (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_W-3_Sok%C3%B3%C5%82)

Mil Mi-17 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-17)



Im not good of analysis of the performances of the 2 transport helicopter. The most question of all is which of this copters are capable to operate at strong wind whether there is a emergency mission?

Deadly Drone Strike on Muslims in the Southern Philippines
http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2012/03/05-drones-philippines-ahmed
Is anyone know about this yet?

I know about the reported smart bomb unleashed by an upgraded OV-10.

I know about the reported smart bomb unleashed by an upgraded OV-10.

I was thinking that this one could be referring to that. Ginawang OA sa "drones" :lol:

Ping cautions DND on allowing US troops to use Subic, Clark (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=815110&publicationSubCategoryId=63)
By Christina Mendez (The Philippine Star) Updated June 08, 2012 12:00 AM

A senator has realized the bad effects of US bases in our country!



They are playing a dangerous game of brinkmanship with their ill-advised suggestion of an MDT with China.

^^ That's new and that's definitely different from the infamous OV-10 night attack using smart bombs!

It seems Pnoy did not window shop for British armaments...

The DND already did a few months ago in their European tour.

Why would we have a defense treaty with China when they are almost directly threatening us with their war rhetoric and disrespecting our EEZ and territory? Doing so will be like us jumping in a pit full of zhit. It would be better if we have an MDT with either Vietnam, Korea or Japan.

If the CCP is overthrown and China changes its attitude towards, why not. But currently. NO. Why will we have an MDT with the politburo that is threatening us and harassing us?

Ikanga, "If you can't beat them then join them!" :lol:

sa kasabihang filipino, wag kang mamangka sa dalawang ilog, malabo yun MDT with China, papangit lang image ng pinas niyan sa int'l community... para tayong naghahanap ng new Papa....

Kung may mdt tayo sa china, so magdedeklara don tayo ng gyera against india, sk and japan?

sa kasabihang filipino, wag kang mamangka sa dalawang ilog, malabo yun MDT with China, papangit lang image ng pinas niyan sa int'l community... para tayong naghahanap ng new Papa....
Although its near impossible to have a defense treaty with China, what is wrong with that if in the end we are protecting our interests?In the first place the US (with an MDT with us) is not at war technically with China. Sino ang papangit ang tingin dun?

Kung may mdt tayo sa china, so magdedeklara don tayo ng gyera against india, sk and japan?

Why are we going to declare war with these countries? Are they technically at war with China?

Devil's advocate only.

sa kasabihang filipino, wag kang mamangka sa dalawang ilog, malabo yun MDT with China, papangit lang image ng pinas niyan sa int'l community... para tayong naghahanap ng new Papa....

Kung may mdt tayo sa china, so magdedeklara don tayo ng gyera against india, sk and japan?

Clearly, Ping and Honasan are retarded with their idea just because they are anti US that they came up with a dangerous suggestion that could compromise our national interests, security, respect and trust of our allies. Lack of foresight. :bash::bash:

Although its near impossible to have a defense treaty with China, what is wrong with that if in the end we are protecting our interests?In the first place the US (with an MDT with us) is not at war technically with China. Sino ang papangit ang tingin dun?



Why are we going to declare war with these countries? Are they technically at war with China?

Devil's advocate only.

Probema kasi hindi naka allign ang interes ng China sa atin - TALIWAS ito. So bakit makikipag MDT ka sa kanila? :bash::bash:

US Senate approves resolution honoring mutual defense obligations with PH
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/34096/us-senate-approves-resolution-honoring-mutual-defense-obligations-with-ph

US Senate OKs enhanced PH defense ties
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/global-filipino/world/06/07/12/us-senate-oks-enhanced-ph-defense-ties

HOLY SHI_ THANK YOU!!

US Boosts PH Defense
Manila Bulletin
http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/361449/us-boosts-ph-defense

THE United States Senate unanimously passed a resolution calling for increased defense and security cooperation with the Philippines, including the "rotational presence" of American troops in the country.

The resolution was approved on the eve of the three-day official working visit to the Washington of President Benigno S. Aquino III.

It also follows the announcement of US Defense Secretary Leon Panetta that the US will shift most of its naval resources to the Asia Pacific region.

In a report to the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA), the Philippine Embassy in Washington, DC, said Senate Resolution 481 was sponsored by Sen. Richard Lugar (Republican, Indiana), long an ally of the Philippines, to highlight the 60th anniversary of the Mutual Defense Treaty between the Philippines and the US.

The treaty, signed on August 30, 1951, calls for the two nations to support each other if either of them were attacked by an external party.

Philippine Ambassador to the US Jose L. Cuisia Jr. welcomed the adoption of the resolution.

"This is a very positive development that further underscores the importance the United States places on its alliance with the Philippines," Cuisia said in a statement. "The Filipino people greatly appreciate this gesture by our friends in the United States Senate."

Aside from rotating US forces in the Philippines, the resolution calls for increased cooperation and enhanced bilateral security ties between the two countries, including support for the modernization of the Philippine military and increased humanitarian and disaster relief preparedness activities.

The Senate resolution also urged Washington to continue its efforts to assist Manila in the areas of maritime security, maritime domain awareness, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief and related communications infrastructure to enable enhanced information sharing and overall military professionalism.

The resolution noted the support the US government has extended to the Philippines, particularly the recent turnover to the Philippine Navy of two decommissioned US Coast Guard cutters; the assistance provided by US forces in recent calamities in the country; and the conduct of more military exercises and other joint training activities with the Armed Forces of the Philippines.

The resolution also cited recent bilateral meetings where Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Panetta reaffirmed to Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario and Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin that Washington remains "fully committed to honoring mutual obligations with the Philippines and that the alliance continues to serve as a pillar of the Philippines-US relationship and a source of stability in the region."

The resolution also underscored the shared interest of the two countries "in maintaining freedom of navigation, unimpeded lawful commerce and transit of people across the seas and subscribe to a rules-based approach in resolving competing claims in maritime areas through peaceful, collaborative, multilateral and diplomatic processes within the framework of international law."

"The Senate confirms the alliance’s centrality and enduring value as one of the key pillars of peace, stability and prosperity in the Asia-Pacific region and as a key tool in addressing the emerging security environment in the region," the resolution read.

The resolution, which was co-sponsored by Senators John Kerry (Democrat, Massachusetts); James Inhofe (Republican, Oklahoma); Jim Webb (Democrat, Virginia); Kelly Ayotte (Democrat, New Hampshire); Tad Cochran (Republican, Mississippi) and Daniel Inouye (Democrat, Hawaii), also called on Manila and Washington to continue high-level consultations.

In a statement released by his office, Lugar said: "The United States-Philippines relationship represents shared sacrifice in defense of freedom. While historically we have worked well together on multiple fronts, it is necessary that the two countries discern new ways to expand trade, account for their mutual defense and promote stability throughout the region."

Deadly Drone Strike on Muslims in the Southern Philippines
http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2012/03/05-drones-philippines-ahmed
Is anyone know about this yet?
first of all ...that is one bias misleading title, someone need to put this guy on blast.

"Deadly Drone Strike on Foreign Terrorist Leaders in the Southern Philippines"
should be the title

second that is not news, its some foreigner's opinion trying to further cause havoc & divide our people because of our differences, even trying to bring up conflicts that happened 6-centuries ago

15 villagers killed???? arent those militants & J.I. foreigners? so misleading ...that Singaporean & Malaysian terror leaders, villagers now too??


"Abu Sayyaf has been blamed for kidnappings, bombings and beheadings, gripping the Philippines with sensational media reports." lol only blamed? ASG even claims & announces it :bash::bash:


some actual news
3 terror leaders killed in Sulu air raid
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/138813/3-terror-leaders-killed-in-sulu-air-raid


Zulkifli Bin Hir, Southeast Asia's Most Wanted Terrorist, Reportedly Killed
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/02/zulkifli-bin-hir-kiled_n_1249460.html

Why not? If the deal will include China giving up their stupid claim to Scarborough (Panatag), Mischief (Panganiban), and Kalayaan Islands (Philippine-occupied portion of Spratlys) in favor of the Philippines.

As much as possible we should be friendly to all especially the superpowers. Even Indonesia is a non-aligned nation.

Even so. The distrust this issue has brought upon is already irreversible. It is either they respect our claim or not, no treaty will come out of it. Never.

PZL W-3 Sokół (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PZL_W-3_Sok%C3%B3%C5%82)

Mil Mi-17 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-17)

Im not good of analysis of the performances of the 2 transport helicopter. The most question of all is which of this copters are capable to operate at strong wind whether there is a emergency mission?

Whichever has the more powerful engine (the Mi-17 is the winner) and rate of climb (the W3 Sokol is the winner). Their speed difference is only by 10 km/h but the W3 Sokol offers more range on internal fuel. Therefore the W3 Sokol is more economical for such purpose; and it's cheaper than the Mi-17.

Kung may mdt tayo sa china, so magdedeklara don tayo ng gyera against india, sk and japan?

Not really! SK enemy is NK not China which is North Korea's one and only ally while India's foe is Pakistan not China which is one of Pakistan's major military trading partner. An MDT is not meant to wage war, hence, Mutual Defense Treaty.

Well not directly waging war. But for example we aide china when it gets attacked by lets say japan. We used our ships against them. Arent they going to wage war on us? Please fill me in on what consecutes a MDT.

SK and China as the enemy was only hypothetical as SK has support from america and NK has support from china.

MDT at this point is impossible. China and our interest are on the opposites. Are we going to negotiate OUR terrtory but not theirs? Nagpapauto lang tayo. At this point in time, they are not truthful to theor words at inaahas tayo; what more with more complicated things like MDT

Well not directly waging war. But for example we aide china when it gets attacked by lets say japan. We used our ships against them. Arent they going to wage war on us? Please fill me in on what consecutes a MDT.

SK and China as the enemy was only hypothetical as SK has support from america and NK has support from china.

It will depend on the contents (articles) of the MDT. See example here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Defense_Treaty_(U.S.%E2%80%93Philippines)#Specifics) based from the US-RP MDT.

MDT at this point is impossible. China and our interest are on the opposites. Are we going to negotiate OUR terrtory but not theirs? Nagpapauto lang tayo. At this point in time, they are not truthful to theor words at inaahas tayo; what more with more complicated things like MDT

Anything is possible since a shooting war hasn't started! Be open minded to our senators' proposals, who voted them into power anyway if their proposals will not be heard? They don't just make personal opinions like we do here in SSC.

Not really! SK enemy is NK not China which is North Korea's one and only ally while India's foe is Pakistan not China which is one of Pakistan's major military trading partner. An MDT is not meant to wage war, hence, Mutual Defense Treaty.

MDT does not make sense with a country that goes opposite to the national interest since weak Philippines does not have a bargaining power against a very strong China.

Having an MDT with China would mean Philippines have to give up all its claims and be their vassal state. :ohno::ohno:

It will depend on the contents (articles) of the MDT. See example here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Defense_Treaty_(U.S.%E2%80%93Philippines)#Specifics) based from the US-RP MDT.

So that means it MAY include a clause that we have to have to wage war to a country China has already declared war with. Either way, I dont know where you are going with this, but definitely it is very disadvantageous for the Philippines to have a MDT with China based on the context of the recent events.

That said, I wish Ping Lacson would give substance to his agreement with a MDT with china so that our people can scrutinize it.

Hmmm di kaya nagorder ng hellicopter sa website na to?
http://exclusiveaircraft.co.uk/helicopter_sales/Mi-171E-Transport-Helicopters-For-Sale-?gclid=CJCBmobVvbACFUWHpAodKFBMpA

Saan daw tayo idedefend ng china. Sila lang naman ang nagthreathreaten sa atin. An MDT with Vietnam is more viable.

Anything is possible since a shooting war hasn't started! Be open minded to our senators' proposals, who voted them into power anyway if their proposals will not be heard? They don't just make personal opinions like we do here in SSC.

Those senators are clearly retarded. We all have seen the events unfolded before our eyes at Panatag and mind you, that you even received a letter from AFP about the possible attack from China not so long time ago. How far should we open our mind para makipag MDT tayo sa kanila? :nuts: :nuts:

Hmmm di kaya nagorder ng hellicopter sa website na to?
http://exclusiveaircraft.co.uk/helicopter_sales/Mi-171E-Transport-Helicopters-For-Sale-?gclid=CJCBmobVvbACFUWHpAodKFBMpA

^^ saw the site ok siya kaso ang style ksi sa pagprocure is gov't to gov't, kaya mhabng process... Sayang may 6 MI-17E copters available and ready for delivery na...

We're not proposing personal opinions here too and it's not as if those Senators also don't express personal opinions whenever they submit proposals. Remember that we have different points of view regarding issues like the WPS dispute.

My point is that regardless of an issue, no MDT should exist when there is no mutual trust between the two nations involved. People-to-people basis - Filipinos already lost the trust they had towards China because of its unruly and unjust actions in the WPS. They even hacked their way into our websites for Christ's sake! They were the ones who cast the first stone. They should be ready to face the consequences of it.

Do not take an MDT as a topic so lightly that ANY nation would do so long as they are strong and QUITE FORMIDABLE. That is preposterous.

It will depend on the contents (articles) of the MDT. See example here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Defense_Treaty_(U.S.%E2%80%93Philippines)#Specifics) based from the US-RP MDT.



Anything is possible since a shooting war hasn't started! Be open minded to our senators' proposals, who voted them into power anyway if their proposals will not be heard? They don't just make personal opinions like we do here in SSC.

Really? That's the first time I heard that. :lol:

Anyway, I also don't like these MDTs even the RP-US MDT is no longer favorable to me because it is a 60 year old treaty with grandfathered agreements between the United States and the Philippines.

MDT does not make sense with a country that goes opposite to the national interest since weak Philippines does not have a bargaining power against a very strong China.

Having an MDT with China would mean Philippines have to give up all its claims and be their vassal state. :ohno::ohno:

Oh Really? Then what do you call a weak Philippines which already has an MDT with a very strong United States? What is our bargaining power? Having an MDT with China does NOT mean the Philippines will give up all its claims and be a vassal state to them, since when did this to happen to us in our other MDT? Like I said, it will depend on the contents (articles) of the agreed MDT on both countries.

Those senators are clearly retarded. We all have seen the events unfolded before our eyes at Panatag and mind you, that you even received a letter from AFP about the possible attack from China not so long time ago. How far should we open our mind para makipag MDT tayo sa kanila? :nuts: :nuts:

The letter I received was for all reserved officers to be on standby alert -- it can be another exhausting drill or a real war. The one and only time I saw action was during special elections in the ARMM and I did receive a letter back then asking me if I am able to serve for a bloody sentry duty but before and after that were numerous regional drills.

Since china is intruding our waters, bkit ndi nlng ntin sila yayain for a VFA or goodwill naval visits like US do, and maybe Aussies in the future...

Ipasa muna nila yung VSOFA with the Aussie bago sila magpropose ng MDT with China.

Since china is intruding our waters, bkit ndi nlng ntin sila yayain for a VFA or goodwill naval visits like US do, and maybe Aussies in the future...

:ohno:Do you live under a rock? Why would we frigging do that? Kapag ikaw ba e pinag bantaan, papapasukin mo pa sa bahay mo? lol.

^^ saw the site ok siya kaso ang style ksi sa pagprocure is gov't to gov't, kaya mhabng process... Sayang may 6 MI-17E copters available and ready for delivery na...

Procurement via a bidding process is longer than a government to government transaction.

Anyway, I also don't like these MDTs even the RP-US MDT is no longer favorable to me because it is a 60 year old treaty with grandfathered agreements between the United States and the Philippines.



Oh Really? Then what do you call a weak Philippines which already has an MDT with a very strong United States? What is our bargaining power?

Before we come up with an MDT with China, Are our interests aligned with China or US at this moment regarding those territories in dispute considering that Philippines is militarily weak?

Having an MDT with China does NOT mean the Philippines will give up all its claims and be a vassal state to them, since when did this to happen to us in our other MDT? Like I said, it will depend on the contents (articles) of the agreed MDT on both countries.

How sure are you? What interests are we defending against the US and our allies just in case war breaks out? :lol:

RIOT AT FOXCONN PLANT, CHINA
http://www.care2.com/causes/1000-foxconn-workers-riot-in-chengdu.html#13391275070961&action=collapse_widget&id=2913358

YAN siguro na biweset na sila sa Chinese unfair labor law.

Why cant we invest here to manufacture computer chips and hardware stuff?

:ohno:Do you live under a rock? Why would we frigging do that? Kapag ikaw ba e pinag bantaan, papapasukin mo pa sa bahay mo? lol.

China has proposed military exercises with the Philippines a few months ago and has made some port calls last year.

Before we come up with an MDT with China, Are our interests aligned with China or US at this moment regarding those territories in dispute considering that Philippines is militarily weak?

How sure are you? What interests are we defending against the US and our allies just in case war breaks out? :lol:

Like I have always said, it will depend on the articles of the agreed MDT on both countries. It is called a Mutual Defense Treaty (not a Parasitic Defense Treaty) therefore both countries should agree with the full contents of the accord before they sign it. Gets??? :ohno:

Like I have always said, it will depend on the articles of the agreed MDT on both countries. It is called a Mutual Defense Treaty (not a Parasitic Defense Treaty) therefore both countries should agree with the full contents of the accord before they sign it. Gets??? :ohno:

We all know it's mutual, but consider the big picture here before signing a treaty with countries that runs against the national interests.

What if China and US went to war with each other and by virtue of the Philippines MDT with both powers, which side is Philippines going to choose?

Since china is intruding our waters, bkit ndi nlng ntin sila yayain for a VFA or goodwill naval visits like US do, and maybe Aussies in the future...

No VFA or MDT with China. Goodwill naval visits are fine.

China has proposed military exercises with the Philippines a few months ago and has made some port calls last year.

Yes I know that and I do not like the idea and ever since this 9 dot/dash line I have 'strongly' disagree with it.

We all know it's mutual, but consider the big picture here before signing a treaty with countries that runs against the national interests.

What if China and US went to war with each other and by virtue of the Philippines MDT with both powers, which side is Philippines going to choose?

None! As stated in article one of the treaty each party is to settle international disputes in a peaceful manner so that the international peace is not threatened and to refrain from the threat of the use of force in any manner that is inconsistent with the purpose of the United Nations.

During the Falkland Islands War, France did not take sides when 2 of its allies went to war with each other (United Kingdom vs. Argentina). In fact, the UK Royal Navy Type 42 destroyer HMS Sheffield was sank by a French-made Exocet anti-ship missile strike from Argentine attack jets. On the other hand, a UK helicopter that was co-developed with France, destroyed an Argentine submarine!

Commie alert. :lol:

Commie alert. :lol:

Who is the Commie? :bash:

During special elections in the ARMM, I lost a dozen men in different ambushes made by private armies. I am lucky to survive but calling me a commie is something disrespectful; war is not good and having a defense treaty will keep us safe with our current situation so all I am saying here are the facts of an MDT which is obviously unknown to many here.

I am not proposing for an MDT with China, I'm just enlightening some of you here so BE OPEN MINDED! :ohno:

I heard rumors about the unknown 10 attack helicopter is Fennec but still no source of proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Fennec

None! As stated in article one of the treaty each party is to settle international disputes in a peaceful manner so that the international peace is not threatened and to refrain from the threat of the use of force in any manner that is inconsistent with the purpose of the United Nations.

During the Falkland Islands War, France did not take sides when 2 of its allies went to war with each other (United Kingdom vs. Argentina). In fact, the UK Royal Navy Type 42 destroyer HMS Sheffield was sank by a French-made Exocet anti-ship missile strike from Argentine attack jets. On the other hand, a UK helicopter that was co-developed with France, destroyed an Argentine submarine!

Then what's the purpose of MDT if it's not mutual as you mentioned awhile ago? :nuts:

Isn't the basic premise of the MDT to lend defense assistance just in case any of these parties gets attacked?

:guns1::guns1::guns1::guns1:The TRAITORS! THEY SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/globalnation.inquirer.net/files/2012/06/600x300xus-embassy-rally.jpg.pagespeed.ic.N1D6UvXRiD.jpg
Activists burn a US flag bearing President Benigno Aquino’s image in front of the US Embassy Friday. ERWIN AGUILON/Radyo Inquirer

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/39233/100-activists-barred-from-going-near-us-embassy

^^ It's funny that the authorities were not even arresting them for flag burning compared to what was done to the PRC flag. :(
Nde na dapat pinapakinggan ang mga yan. Nothing but security threat.

I heard rumors about the unknown 10 attack helicopter is Fennec but still no source of proof.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocopter_Fennec

Where did you hear that rumor? Because after the 2nd NCAH bid was cancelled, there was no 3rd NCAH bid (NCAH stands for Night Capable Attack Helicopter). So the PAF decided to upgrade their existing MD-520 light attack helicopters to be night capable. The PN has a separate plan to acquire 2-3 multi-role helicopters with ASW capability for the BRP Gregorio Del Pilar and BRP Ramon Alcaraz.

Then what's the purpose of MDT if it's not mutual as you mentioned awhile ago? :nuts:

Please quote that statement of mine because I am getting confused with so many replies and comments regarding my rebuttal about the negative, closed-minded thoughts of the proposed MDT with China.


Isn't the basic premise of the MDT to lend defense assistance just in case any of these parties gets attacked?

You're talking about the succeeding actions when the 1st article can't be achieved. The 1st article was the one I answered which you quoted. And I am basing this from the US-RP MDT which can be different from the Chinese treaty.

:guns1::guns1::guns1::guns1:The TRAITORS! THEY SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/globalnation.inquirer.net/files/2012/06/600x300xus-embassy-rally.jpg.pagespeed.ic.N1D6UvXRiD.jpg
Activists burn a US flag bearing President Benigno Aquino’s image in front of the US Embassy Friday. ERWIN AGUILON/Radyo Inquirer

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/39233/100-activists-barred-from-going-near-us-embassy

Puro ingay lang ang mga yan kasi walang magawang matino. Mga traydor sa bayan! :bash:

^^ It's funny that the authorities were not even arresting them for flag burning compared to what was done to the PRC flag. :(
Nde na dapat pinapakinggan ang mga yan. Nothing but security threat.

They will be arrested if they burn our flag -- the Philippine flag but not the American flag as it has always been burned by the so many American haters worldwide that the Americans has become used to it provided these haters don't directly attack their fellow citizens all over the world.

Puro ingay lang ang mga yan kasi walang magawang matino. Mga traydor sa bayan! :bash:

That is what is called "Freedom of Expression" which is part of our constitution.

Please quote that statement of mine because I am getting confused with so many replies and comments regarding my rebuttal about the negative, closed-minded thoughts of the proposed MDT with China.

You mean this:

Like I have always said, it will depend on the articles of the agreed MDT on both countries. It is called a Mutual Defense Treaty (not a Parasitic Defense Treaty) therefore both countries should agree with the full contents of the accord before they sign it. Gets???

You're talking about the succeeding actions when the 1st article can't be achieved. The 1st article was the one I answered which you quoted. And I am basing this from the US-RP MDT which can be different from the Chinese treaty.

Yeah, exactly. What if nothing was solved diplomatically and either of these countries were attacked? Which side are we going to take and you said none. Now referring to the quote above, didn't you just describe a Parasitic defense treaty here?

Again, this all boils down to what alliances or nation is aligned to our national interest and patrimony. Lacson and Honasan clearly have no idea what they are talking about having an MDT with a country that is out there to grab our territories.

They will be arrested if they burn our flag -- the Philippine flag but not the American flag as it has always been burned by the so many American haters worldwide that the Americans has become used to it provided these haters don't directly attack their fellow citizens all over the world.

But they just arrested Afuang for burning the PRC flag before. There is inconsistency over here. :ohno:

These people should be arrested as well. I think flag burning of any countries should be banned.

You mean this:

Yeah, exactly. What if nothing was solved diplomatically and either of these countries were attacked? Which side are we going to take and you said none. Now referring to the quote above, didn't you just describe a Parasitic defense treaty here?

If our country has an alliance with both China and the United States and both countries went to a shooting war with each other then our country will not take sides, it will remain in a state of neutrality (the treaty will not become parasitic because both allies are at war) which is acceptable under UN laws -- the same international body that governs all the other alliances and treaties among its member states.

I made France as a good example in the Falkland Islands War between the United Kingdom and Argentina. France did not take sides and even allowed their weapons be used by both sides without embargo. After the war, France is still an ally with both countries.

If our country has an alliance with both China and the United States and both countries went to a shooting war with each other then our country will not take sides, it will remain in a state of neutrality (the treaty will not become parasitic because both allies are at war) which is acceptable under UN laws -- the same international body that governs all the other alliances and treaties among its member states.

I made France as a good example in the Falkland Islands War between the United Kingdom and Argentina. France did not take sides and even allowed their weapons be used by both sides without embargo. After the war, France is still an ally with both countries.

But do you really think the war between them will not get the Philippines involved here especially that we have competing claims with China? Don't be that naive. In the end, we still have to choose what country to side for.

Take note, In the Falklands war, Argentina does not have MDT with France although they are an ally. Not in the same page.

But they just arrested Afuang for burning the PRC flag before. There is inconsistency over here. :ohno:

These people should be arrested as well. I think flag burning of any countries should be banned.

The burned flag isn't exactly the American flag, look at the stars and stripes.

But do you really think the war between them will not get the Philippines involved here?

If both countries has a defense treaty with us? Nope! Our constitution will not allow it and the United Nations will support our state of neutrality in such event.

It will become the greatest modern day naval battle in history... Bring on the pop corn, I want cheese flavor!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cys2T5FgJdo/TMepj7S--pI/AAAAAAAAH00/ZUqht2gFdk8/s1600/LincolnCSG.jpg

:guns1::guns1::guns1::guns1:The TRAITORS! THEY SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/globalnation.inquirer.net/files/2012/06/600x300xus-embassy-rally.jpg.pagespeed.ic.N1D6UvXRiD.jpg
Activists burn a US flag bearing President Benigno Aquino’s image in front of the US Embassy Friday. ERWIN AGUILON/Radyo Inquirer

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/39233/100-activists-barred-from-going-near-us-embassy

I will light em up with some firecrackers (super lolo kaya) on them.
http://s17.postimage.org/j7neu7iyn/000_1003203004_mutley_27112.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

I will light em up with some firecrackers (super lolo kaya) on them.
http://s17.postimage.org/j7neu7iyn/000_1003203004_mutley_27112.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Bayan Muna? They are headquartered at the PUP Sta. Mesa branch, you may want to check them out there because the campus security there is weak. You can lob a grenade on their tambayan then go walk away like nothing happened.

If both countries has a defense treaty with us? Nope! Our constitution will not allow it and the United Nations will support our state of neutrality in such event.

It will become the greatest modern day naval battle in history... Bring on the pop corn, I want cheese flavor!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cys2T5FgJdo/TMepj7S--pI/AAAAAAAAH00/ZUqht2gFdk8/s1600/LincolnCSG.jpg


China does not even accept ITLOS which is an international recognized body for arbitration so how can you expect them to respect our neutrality especially that they have competing claims with our territory? :lol: :lol:

Again, it falls back to alignment of interests.

Why not? If the deal will include China giving up their stupid claim to Scarborough (Panatag), Mischief (Panganiban), and Kalayaan Islands (Philippine-occupied portion of Spratlys) in favor of the Philippines.

As much as possible we should be friendly to all especially the superpowers. Even Indonesia is a non-aligned nation.

As if Commie China will agree to that kind of deal. After all what had happened, do you still think that Commie China is a trust worthy nation? Not until that country will change into a democratic country, we can never trust them.

Although its near impossible to have a defense treaty with China, what is wrong with that if in the end we are protecting our interests?In the first place the US (with an MDT with us) is not at war technically with China. Sino ang papangit ang tingin dun?



Why are we going to declare war with these countries? Are they technically at war with China?

Devil's advocate only.

Plausible. For me anything is possible. As long as we can find a win-win solution why not? For me, fighting China in the long term is not healthy. Perhaps, it will not be healthy for China also. Especially with all the negative reactions coming from other nations.


Probema kasi hindi naka allign ang interes ng China sa atin - TALIWAS ito. So bakit makikipag MDT ka sa kanila? :bash::bash:

As of today, no chance talaga. China acts as our enemy. But you know, Vietnam and the US were bitter enemies before. Maybe eventually, the Philippines and China will sit down and finally work out a resolution to this stand off in Panatag.

Even so. The distrust this issue has brought upon is already irreversible. It is either they respect our claim or not, no treaty will come out of it. Never.

Irreversible? IMO, this is inaccurate. Japan was our enemy before. Now we are friends. Be open minded. We dont know what will happen next.

MDT at this point is impossible. China and our interest are on the opposites. Are we going to negotiate OUR terrtory but not theirs? Nagpapauto lang tayo. At this point in time, they are not truthful to theor words at inaahas tayo; what more with more complicated things like MDT

Agree. If we will talk about the present situation. No chance at all.

But they just arrested Afuang for burning the PRC flag before. There is inconsistency over here. :ohno:

These people should be arrested as well. I think flag burning of any countries should be banned.

Mabait di papi kaya okay lang. Di naman abot news dito. Pero lung kay uncle hu, baka maging ala bull game yan :lol:

Ambassador to China slams Ishihara's Senkakus plan
LONDON — Japan's ambassador to China, Uichiro Niwa, has strongly criticized Tokyo Gov. Shintaro Ishihara's plan to buy the disputed Senkaku Islands in an interview published by a British newspaper Thursday.

Ishihara's envisioned purchase of three of the Senkaku islets in the East China Sea that are also claimed and referred to by China as the Diaoyu isles, could result in "an extremely grave crisis" in economic and other bilateral relations, Niwa told the Financial Times.

While the move faces a variety of obstacles, a mere prepurchase survey of the islands could be "diplomatically incendiary," Niwa said. "We cannot allow decades of past effort to (come) to nothing."

Foreign Minister Koichiro Genba immediately admonished Niwa over the remarks, advising him that his personal views "differ from the stance of the government" and instructing him to be more diplomatic in the future, according to government officials.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura also said Thursday that Niwa was only expressing his own viewpoint in the interview and that they are not representative of the government's position on the issue.

The Financial Times described Niwa's remarks as "by far the strongest sign of Japanese central government disquiet" over Ishihara's move to acquire the three islets from a private titleholder based in Saitama Prefecture.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20120608c1.html

B
Lacson said it is better if the Philippines enjoys the support of the world’s top superpowers – the US and China.[/B]

No wonder the US don't trust us.

:lol: He didn't even realized that doing that would look treacherous to both parties. :lol: My god what an idiot and these guys weren't even first time senators. Oh God please speedup the age of these fools or kill them brutally in anyway possible so that they could die early and we may reap the benefits of their death.

During ww2, even neutral countries were occupied by Germany. Neutrality is a word, not a practice :lol:

why are these guys still in senate??? Our allies will always be the US, the British empire, Most of the former Spanish colonies, Japan and South Korea. I don't understand why they have to bring up China.. it can be a trading partner but never an ally...

During ww2, even neutral countries were occupied by Germany. Neutrality is a word, not a practice :lol:

true.. when all hell breaks loose, there's no such thing as code of ethics, rules of war or rules of engagement. It's just a peacetime war ideals... because for sure, when US and China go into war, China will attack all US allies within easy reach.. tatalon ako sa eroplano pag hindi ginawa ng China yan -Miriam:lol:

During ww2, even neutral countries were occupied by Germany. Neutrality is a word, not a practice :lol:

Can you expound more on your historical findings? War Neutral Sweden let Germany and the Allied Forces use their air and ground during WW2 but no actual occupation was made.

true.. when all hell breaks loose, there's no such thing as code of ethics, rules of war or rules of engagement. It's just a peacetime war ideals... because for sure, when US and China go into war, China will attack all US allies within easy reach.. tatalon ako sa eroplano pag hindi ginawa ng China yan -Miriam:lol:

Not true at all! His claim is baseless. :ohno:

why are these guys still in senate??? Our allies will always be the US, the British empire, Most of the former Spanish colonies, Japan and South Korea. I don't understand why they have to bring up China.. it can be a trading partner but never an ally...

Because there are no impeachment proceedings against them and ranting will not merit to putting a senator out of service. FYI Japan raped our women, abused our children, and tortured our men in WW2 so don't tell me they've always been our ally. South Korea became an ally because we served in the Korean War with the American side but before that the Japanese Imperial Forces also employed Korean soldiers in their WW2 invasions.

As if Commie China will agree to that kind of deal. After all what had happened, do you still think that Commie China is a trust worthy nation? Not until that country will change into a democratic country, we can never trust them.

We trust some of our businesses to the Chinese and we also enjoy eating Chinese food. :cheers:

Plausible. For me anything is possible. As long as we can find a win-win solution why not? For me, fighting China in the long term is not healthy. Perhaps, it will not be healthy for China also. Especially with all the negative reactions coming from other nations.

As of today, no chance talaga. China acts as our enemy. But you know, Vietnam and the US were bitter enemies before. Maybe eventually, the Philippines and China will sit down and finally work out a resolution to this stand off in Panatag.

Irreversible? IMO, this is inaccurate. Japan was our enemy before. Now we are friends. Be open minded. We dont know what will happen next.

Agree. If we will talk about the present situation. No chance at all.

Nakuha mo chong! Be open minded talaga! :banana:

Defense cooperation topping Obama-Aquino meeting
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/34204/defense-cooperation-topping-obama-aquino-meeting

Can you expound more on your historical findings? War Neutral Sweden let Germany and the Allied Forces use their air and ground during WW2 but no actual occupation was made.

Belgium was initially neutral state but Germany invaded it two times during WWI and WWII.

China does not even accept ITLOS which is an international recognized body for arbitration so how can you expect them to respect our neutrality especially that they have competing claims with our territory? :lol: :lol:

Again, it falls back to alignment of interests.

You're missing something! Remember we were talking about our country's stance if both China and US goes to war with each other, to whom we will take side if we have an MDT on both country -- both China and US will respect our neutrality since we have treaties with them.

Alignment of interests is involved in the ratification of an MDT.

Take note, In the Falklands war, Argentina does not have MDT with France although they are an ally. Not in the same page.

France also doesn't have an MDT with the United Kingdom but only an alliance through NATO. Argentina's armed forces during the Falkland Islands War has mostly French-made weapons because they are one of France's major foreign arms export customers in South America.

some people are making so much analyses.. in the end, what will happen is alignment of interests... papers and declarations are nothing more than that when things get out of control.. tell me how how many times was the geneva convention fully observed in any wars?

Alam nyo lagay nyo nalang sa ignore list yan kumag na yan. Sinita ako nyan dati dahil sabi nya magkaparehas daw ibig sabihin ng boycott at ban. Sabi ko hindi, at prinisenta ko pa ebidensya ko. Sabi nya wag ko daw contrahin :lol:.

Sadyang may mga taong feeling diyos na knows it all. :lol:

Belgium was initially neutral state but Germany invaded it two times during WWI and WWII.

Nazi Germany used Belgium as a staging ground to attack France because they found it to be the best starting point to invade the strong defense of the French forces. The Nazi Germans were able to avoid the dreaded French Maginot Line.

Why do you keep on insisting that neutrality can't be honored? Will other countries declare a neutral state if it's not taken seriously at all? Be open minded!

Alam nyo lagay nyo nalang sa ignore list yan kumag na yan. Sinita ako nyan dati dahil sabi nya magkaparehas daw ibig sabihin ng boycott at ban. Sabi ko hindi, at prinisenta ko pa ebidensya ko. Sabi nya wag ko daw contrahin :lol:.

Sadyang may mga taong feeling diyos na knows it all. :lol:

Ano problema mo? Hindi naman ako pwedeng OO na lang sa mga walang kwentang pinagsasabi mo dito! Ginawang spammers haven na nga ang thread na ito kaya mabilisan na itong naisasara hindi tulad dati na umaabot kami ng 1000 post limit bago isara dahil puro on-topic kami.

Ang mga nalalaman ko ay mula sa mga nababasa at nasusuri ko. Hindi ako nakikipagparamihan ng post count dito iho! :bash:

some people are making so much analyses.. in the end, what will happen is alignment of interests... papers and declarations are nothing more than that when things get out of control.. tell me how how many times was the geneva convention fully observed in any wars?

Geneva Convention naman ngayon! Alam nyo na ba mga pinagsasabi ninyo? OO hindi lahat ng nasa Geneva Convention ay nasusunod so ano punto mo, hindi rerespetuhin ng China ang isang MDT sa Pilipinas? Kung ganun eh pwede naman hindi pirmahan ng Pilipinas ang MDT na yun kung alam ng mga mas propesyonal na mga tao sa Pilipinas na hindi masusunod ang MDT sa China!

Baket walang makapangontra sa naging partisipasyon ng France nung Falkland Islands War kung san parehas na alyado ng France ang nag-gerahan pero walang kinampihan ang France sa 2?

Commie alert. :lol:
Most of these comments are really wacky and have no basis in reality:nuts:

Who is the Commie? :bash:

I am not proposing for an MDT with China, I'm just enlightening some of you here so BE OPEN MINDED! :ohno:

LOL! I have been accused of being a commie once or twice before, because i believe if US go to war, the US will need propaganda to win such war owing to the fact that China can decide to inject the 1.17 trillion dollars into the dollar market devaluing it by more than 80%, That will be detrimental to Americans trying to purchase oil, Americans' purchasing power will drop and they won't be able to buy oil from many countries except drill theirs which won't be enough,

China also has something to lose, NATO nations will not buy from China either and will also wage an economic war though most of Nato nations also owe something to China, The best option for China is to avoid such war because their economic activities depends on Western Europe and America a lot, In an economic war, they both stand to lose a lot but I think China can survive well without the USA, Though US can survive, it depends on that said bond China holds,

First, the USA will need to nullify the bond illegitimately, then they can think of War! But then again, Russia is there and is China's biggest Ally, The truth is, the war will be too deep to dig the countries involve out of it, Seriously such war will be harsh on humanity.

You mean this:





Yeah, exactly. What if nothing was solved diplomatically and either of these countries were attacked? Which side are we going to take and you said none. Now referring to the quote above, didn't you just describe a Parasitic defense treaty here?

Again, this all boils down to what alliances or nation is aligned to our national interest and patrimony. Lacson and Honasan clearly have no idea what they are talking about having an MDT with a country that is out there to grab our territories.


Let us not forget that Germany was not true to its nonaggression pact it signed with Russia in www. With china having clear contradictions on what they say and do when dealing with us, an MDT with them at the moment will be disastrous for us.

Most of these comments are really wacky and have no basis in reality:nuts:


LOL! I have been accused of being a commie once or twice before, because i believe if US go to war, the US will need propaganda to win such war owing to the fact that China can decide to inject the 1trillion dollars into the dollar market devaluing it by more than 80%, That will be detrimental to Americans trying to purchase oil, Americans' purchasing power will drop and they won't be able to buy oil from many countries except drill theirs which won't be enough,

China also has something to lose, NATO nations will not buy from China either and will also wage an economic war though most of Nato nations also owe something to China, The best option for China is to avoid such war because their economic activities depends on Western Europe and America a lot, In an economic war, they both stand to lose a lot but I think China can survive well without the USA, Though US can survive, it depends on that said bond China holds,

First, the USA will need to nullify the bond illegitimately, then they can think of War! But then again, Russia is there and is China's biggest Ally, The truth is, the war will be too deep to dig the countries involve out of it, Seriously such war will be harsh on humanity.

They will call you a Commie here if you don't side by their beliefs and desires with our current situation against China. How cheap! This is a free forum, no one is obliged to take side on one side only as they fight their way against China through ranting and spamming. I choose to be neutral and in the same time as AN ANTI-SPAMMER BECAUSE THIS IS THE PHILIPPINE DEFENSE FORCES THREAD NOT AN ANTI-CHINESE RANTING THREAD FOR CHRIST SAKE MAKE YOUR OWN ANTI-CHINESE THREAD IF THE MODS ALLOW IT!!!

Let us not forget that Germany was not true to its nonaggression pact it signed with Russia in www. With china having clear contradictions on what they say and do when dealing with us, an MDT with them at the moment will be disastrous for us.

OMG that was World War 2 Germany... the Germans has already denounced and abolished the Nazi party! So what do you propose if an MDT with China is not acceptable? Tell that to senate because Malacanang has clearly stated that there will be no temporary basing rights for the US forces.

Can you expound more on your historical findings? War Neutral Sweden let Germany and the Allied Forces use their air and ground during WW2 but no actual occupation was made.



Not true at all! His claim is baseless. :ohno:



Because there are no impeachment proceedings against them and ranting will not merit to putting a senator out of service. FYI Japan raped our women, abused our children, and tortured our men in WW2 so don't tell me they've always been our ally. South Korea became an ally because we served in the Korean War with the American side but before that the Japanese Imperial Forces also employed Korean soldiers in their WW2 invasions.



We trust some of our businesses to the Chinese and we also enjoy eating Chinese food. :cheers:



Nakuha mo chong! Be open minded talaga! :banana:

I was referring to Commie China and Commie Chinese not the entire Chinese.

I was referring to Commie China and Commie Chinese not the entire Chinese.

May mga tao dito na di alam ang pinagkaiba ng fil-chi sa mainlang chinese. Merong article sa pcij about the local chinese dislike for mainland chinese.

In this case, when we say "chinese" we pertain to the mainland chinese. Many of us naman here know that the local chinese are filipino citizens.


Dinedeflect nya lang ang usapan kaya wag nang pansinin.


Edit: this is the article
http://pcij.org/stories/wary-of-the-new-wave/

They will call you a Commie here if you don't side by their beliefs and desires with our current situation against China. How cheap! This is a free forum, no one is obliged to take side on one side only as they fight their way against China through ranting and spamming. I choose to be neutral and in the same time as AN ANTI-SPAMMER BECAUSE THIS IS THE PHILIPPINE DEFENSE FORCES THREAD NOT AN ANTI-CHINESE RANTING THREAD FOR CHRIST SAKE MAKE YOUR OWN ANTI-CHINESE THREAD IF THE MODS ALLOW IT!!!

I support The Philippines stand on Scarborough Shoal, Military modernization etc.
but isnt it a little intolerant to wrongly accused someone cause he doesnt agree with you. is that how they show their tolerance? Everyone has the right to free speech and their own opinion. ITO PA COMMIE DAW AKO OR RUSSIAN SPY KASI HINDI AKO NAG TATAGALOG? I thought this forum was an international forum and I'm not really comfortable with my tagalog to be honest but I can safely say, that I'm a Filipino and Proud!

May mga tao dito na di alam ang pinagkaiba ng fil-chi sa mainlang chinese. Merong article sa pcij about the local chinese dislike for mainland chinese.

In this case, when we say "chinese" we pertain to the mainland chinese. Many of us naman here know that the local chinese are filipino citizens.

Dinedeflect nya lang ang usapan kaya wag nang pansinin.

Edit: this is the article
http://pcij.org/stories/wary-of-the-new-wave/

I am not deflecting any conversations here! :ohno:

Not everyone knows that there are local Chinese here that owns big businesses here in the Philippines that are also 100% Chinese and does not consider themselves as Filipino citizens because they get better benefits as a Chinese citizen than as a Filipino citizen... that's a fact and don't you deny it.

In a war against China, do you really think that the local Chinese community here in our country will side by us true bloodied Filipinos? Especially in an event that China succeeds in invading and occupying our country, don't you think that these local Chinese will not take advantage of the opportunity to monopolize and gain more from it?

I will never side by a spammer nor a ranter like you Nabartek, those who side by you are also like you! :lol:

I support The Philippines stand on Scarborough Shoal, Military modernization etc.
but isnt it a little intolerant to wrongly accused someone cause he doesnt agree with you. is that how they show their tolerance? Everyone has the right to free speech and their own opinion. ITO PA COMMIE DAW AKO OR RUSSIAN SPY KASI HINDI AKO NAG TATAGALOG? I thought this forum was an international forum and I'm not really comfortable with my tagalog to be honest but I can safely say, that I'm a Filipino and Proud!

Tama ka dun pre! These spammers and ranters say that because of free speech they can do whatever they want here in this open forum ikanga "they are our online freedom fighters" but if your opinion is against theirs or they simply dislike it then they will call you a Commie. Ironically, only the Communist rebels do this form of actions.

Dapat may like at dislike button na lang dito.

Lets be open minded about this China issue.

I hate and condemn China to the high heavens for invading our territory, badmouthing us in international media and bullying us through various economic pressures.

But Im also realistic. The best way out of this problem is to talk. And explore every possibilities without surrendering our sovereignty and interests.

Lets deal with this problem calmly and peacefully.

Please I hope some people here stop calling other people with different opinion as communist. We hate China for being a Fascist-Communist shit-hole so we should not act the same way--intolerant of other's view, especially if expressed in a nice way.

Lets be open minded about this China issue.

I hate and condemn China to the high heavens for invading our territory, badmouthing us in international media and bullying us through various economic pressures.

But Im also realistic. The best way out of this problem is to talk. And explore every possibilities without surrendering our sovereignty and interests.

Lets deal with this problem calmly and peacefully.

Please I hope some people here stop calling other people with different opinion as communist. We hate China for being a Fascist-Communist shit-hole so we should not act the same way--intolerant of other's view, especially if expressed in a nice way.

Correct ka dyan! Some people here will attack you if your opinions are not liked by them as if naman they have something better to say but just spam and rant-rant-rant? Ranting and spamming will not solve our issues against China!

Ok no MDT with China, how are we going to handle the Scarborough Shoal issue? Malacanang has reiterated that it will not allow temporary basing rights to US forces. Our AFP modernization is slow progressing and US military aid has its clause because we still have unsolved human rights violations. People are saying that a diplomatic protest is useless because China is not listening... SO WHAT DO WE DO? ANY IDEAS FROM NABARTEK (who is obviously attacking me) & KENKEN94 (who declared a commie alert after I made several comments about a senator's MDT proposal to China, remember it's our senator that proposed the MDT to China NOT ME!)?

Thats the problem with some people here. As if they can solve this Panatag problem in their own terms.

Thats the reason why I find Lacson's idea-plausible. We dont have problems with China 20 years ago. Now we have, perhaps we can solve our differences with China peacefully.

Perhaps China might give up with its stupid imperialistic ambitions especially with the USA now discreetly saber rattling in Asia-Pacific.

And Singapore, a Chinese arse kisser, allowing the US to dock their ships in the island.

Australia wants a VFA like treaty with us.

India is making "some rounds" in South China Sea with its naval ships.

Japan is doing something to antagonize its historic enemy. South Korea is doing something because of China's sponsorship of terroristic North Korea.


Lame ASEAN might regroup finally and realize that one ASEAN will be a force to reckon with economically, politically and militarily in the future.

Let us be open to any possibilities.

Not all things are carve in stones.

Let us not forget that Germany was not true to its nonaggression pact it signed with Russia in www. With china having clear contradictions on what they say and do when dealing with us, an MDT with them at the moment will be disastrous for us.

Yes, when I think about it, it is kinda similar to the Germano-Soviet pact signed by Ribbentrop and Molotov. Russia then was only playing into the hands of the Germans which would later betray them in the Operation Barbarossa.

This happening now is not an impossibility. We don't want to play into China's tricks because first and foremost, our interests do not intertwine as much as ours as much as the United States does.

The Philippines and the United States share the same democratic ideals, the aim to promote liberty and freedom which is in stark contrast to China's oppressive regime and aim to propagate communist ideology across the world. There is just too much difference that it makes a gap that can never be filled. We share a common history with the Americans, culturally, we are more inclined to the West than the orient.

In considering an MDT, there must be mutuality in terms of interests, goals, ideals and shared history. We fought and died with the Americans in many wars. We basically trust them more than any foreign nation we've ever dealt with. An MDT is such an important matter that to carelessly grant it to anyone who is powerful is preposterous.

Those who find pleasure in sleeping with the enemy. Those that support a regime that has no consistency with its proclamations of peace and its war mongering acts. To have a common defense structure to a country where there is no democracy, there is censorship and civil oppression will be like a blind man who helplessly walks with criminals whose only interest is to do harm to him. We must learn to classify friend from foe. China's friendliness was a cloak to hide its imperialistic aspirations. They aim to destabilize the current status quo and place themselves as the sole ruler of the world.

Their peaceful rise was nothing more than a ploy to expand their empire and gain tributary nations instead of allies. This is something we must understand more than anything else when dealing with foreign countries.

Correct ka dyan! Some people here will attack you if your opinions are not liked by them as if naman they have something better to say but just spam and rant-rant-rant? Ranting and spamming will not solve our issues against China!

Ok no MDT with China, how are we going to handle the Scarborough Shoal issue? Malacanang has reiterated that it will not allow temporary basing rights to US forces. Our AFP modernization is slow progressing and US military aid has its clause because we still have unsolved human rights violations. People are saying that a diplomatic protest is useless because China is not listening... SO WHAT DO WE DO? ANY IDEAS FROM NABARTEK (who is obviously attacking me) & KENKEN94 (who declared a commie alert after I made several comments about a senator's MDT proposal to China, remember it's our senator that proposed the MDT to China NOT ME!)?

Isn't that the essence of forums? If you get called by names let them, it's our right in the same fashion you got the same right too, call them ultra nationalist etc etc haha just suggesting, btw I don't really like your suggestions :banana: and the way you remind people about possible MDT with China.
Actually I loathed those moronic suggestions by our ohhh so bright senators along with their perfect timings, currently I think the best thing to do is to maintain the status quo, just maintain the stand off till well, dunno next year? Haha. Cause seriously with what's happening right now, if I'm them I'll say no MDT foh u , honestly did you consider their side? The relationship between PH and China has been stained in our generation it'll probably take 1 or two generation to heal that.

^^ So what are you proposing KenKen94 to solve our territorial issues with China? And why didn't you declare a commie alert on Greenfield's comments? Sapul ba?

The US will only honor their MDT with us after China fires the 1st shot if war has become the preference -- the 1st shot can be a deadly nuclear strike!

http://static.desktopnexus.com/thumbnails/70829-bigthumbnail.jpg

The US Navy 7th fleet has to travel from South Korea, Japan and Guam to help us after the 1st shot is fired as they are not allowed temporary basing rights here in our country -- they will be blocked by the Chinese Navy along the way thus delaying our much needed RESBAK!

Isn't that the essence of forums? If you get called by names let them, it's our right in the same fashion you got the same right too, call them ultra nationalist etc etc haha just suggesting, btw I don't really like your suggestions :banana: .

Opinion does not = personally attacking someone.
I came here cause I thought I was dealing with adults. They can't take being wrong or getting their feelings hurt because you don't agree....... Sore talking I call it. Take it as you will, but don't get so butt hurt if you have nothing else better to do than accusing someone a commie and ranting.....GROW UP!!
I think everyone is entitled to their opinion without attacking the other if theirs is different.

Lets be open minded about this China issue.

I hate and condemn China to the high heavens for invading our territory, badmouthing us in international media and bullying us through various economic pressures.

But Im also realistic. The best way out of this problem is to talk. And explore every possibilities without surrendering our sovereignty and interests.

Lets deal with this problem calmly and peacefully.

Please I hope some people here stop calling other people with different opinion as communist. We hate China for being a Fascist-Communist shit-hole so we should not act the same way--intolerant of other's view, especially if expressed in a nice way.

We have always been willing to talk. But are the Chinese amicable to a settlement that is also good to us? Remember that it was them who drew the great u-shaped line claiming the whole WPS. It was them who proclaimed that their sovereignty is INDISPUTABLE. Now, who is being close minded about the issue? Is it us or them? We have been patient in dealing with their war mongering and false accusations of us being the perpetrators. They cast the first stone.

If they want negotiations to start, they will have to be amicable to terms and abide to international law. They ratified the UNCLOS, they have no reason not to accept the principles provided in the convention on how to settle maritime disputes. They will have to give up their superiority complex and peaceful settle things based on present international law.

Okay, it's settled then. They want an MDT with China while the rest of us is opposed to it. There'd be no end to this debacle because basically no party is willing to agree with the other.

Let us move on to the next news then. All the ideas have been given, all the name calling done.

Now, moving on, are there any new updates about the stand off?

^^ news has been slow lately regarding the issue. I hope it's not a news block out.

Isn't that the essence of forums? If you get called by names let them, it's our right in the same fashion you got the same right too, call them ultra nationalist etc etc haha just suggesting, btw I don't really like your suggestions :banana: and the way you remind people about possible MDT with China.

Actually I loathed those moronic suggestions by our ohhh so bright senators along with their perfect timings, currently I think the best thing to do is to maintain the status quo, just maintain the stand off till well, dunno next year? Haha. Cause seriously with what's happening right now, if I'm them I'll say no MDT foh u , honestly did you consider their side? The relationship between PH and China has been stained in our generation it'll probably take 1 or two generation to heal that.

And what do you think is the best way to solve our territorial disputes with China who is not listening to our international diplomatic protests and does not fear a shooting war since their 1st strike can be a chaotic one to us, we will suffer the most than the US even though we have an MDT with the US. The US is not even prepared for another war because they are suffering economic problems at home and voters in the incoming US elections are rallying that US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan be sent home -- whatever party can achieve near this request can turn the tide in the US elections. But you need to commit the same number of US troops that were sent in Iraq and Afghanistan to fight China in a shooting war.

^^ The media blitz did tame the Chinese on their aggressiveness plus the recent proclamations of Washington about its dissatisfaction over China's absurd claims.

We need to solidify our alliance with the United States and continue on with the procurement of weapons overseas. I think we should also start courting potential investors to start a strong defense industry here in the country. With the storng demand for locally made weapons, the time is high for the government to also capitalize on the scenario and give jobs to our skilled workers.

Hopefully we can start to be self-reliant in producing our weapons in the long-term so that more Filipinos could also get a permanent job. There is the potential, we just need the capital.

And what do you think is the best way to solve our territorial disputes with China who is not listening to our international diplomatic protests and does not fear a shooting war since their 1st strike can be a chaotic one to us, we will suffer the most than the US even though we have an MDT with the US. The US is not even prepared for another war because they are suffering economic problems at home and voters in the incoming US elections are rallying that US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan be sent home -- whatever party can achieve near this request can turn the tide in the US elections. But you need to commit the same number of US troops that were sent in Iraq and Afghanistan to fight China in a shooting war.

Honestly, I can't think of any other than maintaining the status quo, I mean the stand off, how bout you? Do you think that suggested "MDT" would solve it either? With the current situation even multilateral talks aren't possible, how much more about MDT, I don't think so. :lol:

Maintain the current status quo while pursuing diplomatic protest that's my bet to solve this, just let time pass while maintaining the stand off this would ease the tension since no side would be willing to negotiate "sovereignty". Parang pag kain lang yan, lalamig din yan. Masnagaalala pa ko sa ekonomiya kesa dyan e, honestly.

And what do you think is the best way to solve our territorial disputes with China who is not listening to our international diplomatic protests and does not fear a shooting war since their 1st strike can be a chaotic one to us, we will suffer the most than the US even though we have an MDT with the US. The US is not even prepared for another war because they are suffering economic problems at home and voters in the incoming US elections are rallying that US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan be sent home -- whatever party can achieve near this request can turn the tide in the US elections. But you need to commit the same number of US troops that were sent in Iraq and Afghanistan to fight China in a shooting war.

We just need to remain firm with our stand. We cannot surrender our sovereignty for the sake of avoiding another war. We don't want to become like the Thais back in World War II or even the Vichy regime who collaborates with both the allies and the Germans.

China going to war at this point in time is impossible. They will suffer more than us because the international community will condemn them for doing such a cowardly act of waging war with a small and weak nation like us.

No country is in the mood to go to war. China will end up destroying itself if ever they start a shooting war with us because it will only give justification for other regional powers to gang-up on China. The US has debts held by China and the Chinese can just say goodbye to all those cash if worse comes to worse. They will simply be annihilated by a joint attack from Japan, India, South Korea and the rest of the Western powers.

So do not worry about things escalating more than what it is now. China is not stupid enough to not know the consequences of its actions. We on our part must continue with the diplomatic offensive and stand on our claim which is justified under international law by which China is also a signatory of.

^^ The media blitz did tame the Chinese on their aggressiveness plus the recent proclamations of Washington about its dissatisfaction over China's absurd claims.

We need to solidify our alliance with the United States and continue on with the procurement of weapons overseas. I think we should also start courting potential investors to start a strong defense industry here in the country. With the storng demand for locally made weapons, the time is high for the government to also capitalize on the scenario and give jobs to our skilled workers.

Hopefully we can start to be self-reliant in producing our weapons in the long-term so that more Filipinos could also get a permanent job. There is the potential, we just need the capital.

All claimant nations should submit to the ITLOS their claims and eventually abide and respect its ruling...We are all civilized nations so let's all act accordingly.

Honestly, I can't think of any other than maintaining the status quo, I mean the stand off, how bout you? Do you think that suggested "MDT" would solve it either? With the current situation even multilateral talks aren't possible, how much more about MDT, I don't think so. :lol:

Maintain the current status quo while pursuing diplomatic protest that's my bet to solve this, just let time pass while maintaining the stand off this would ease the tension since no side would be willing to negotiate "sovereignty". Parang pag kain lang yan, lalamig din yan. Masnagaalala pa ko sa ekonomiya kesa dyan e, honestly.



IMO, we should file at the UN unilaterally. It will not stop China but it will give more credibility to us and it will serve as a challenge to the UN if they are going to follow their "guidelines" when it comes to dispute regarding a much much bigger nation and a small one.

Like you, I prefer the status quo. We're not the ones irritated by a stalemate anyway. Actually, it is an achievement and perhaps an "honor" to have a stand off with dear China. Lol

China Telecom attacked by hacker group

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20120608000052&cid=1103

Perhaps the govt. and military communication should be preparing double-triple firewall
network against this hackers.

^^ The media blitz did tame the Chinese on their aggressiveness plus the recent proclamations of Washington about its dissatisfaction over China's absurd claims.

We need to solidify our alliance with the United States and continue on with the procurement of weapons overseas. I think we should also start courting potential investors to start a strong defense industry here in the country. With the storng demand for locally made weapons, the time is high for the government to also capitalize on the scenario and give jobs to our skilled workers.

Hopefully we can start to be self-reliant in producing our weapons in the long-term so that more Filipinos could also get a permanent job. There is the potential, we just need the capital.




Maybe, being a baby damulag isnt bad at all. Sa lakas ng iyak, mejo nagtame down ang mga instik :lol:

Opinion does not = personally attacking someone. I came here cause I thought I was dealing with adults. They can't take being wrong or getting their feelings hurt because you don't agree....... Sore talking I call it. Take it as you will, but don't get so butt hurt if you have nothing else better to do than accusing someone a commie and ranting.....GROW UP!! I think everyone is entitled to their opinion without attacking the other if theirs is different.

Sana may LIKE button dito dahil SUPER LIKE ko ito! :)

Okay, it's settled then. They want an MDT with China while the rest of us is opposed to it.

Nothing is settled because what do you want? You keep on opposing but not proposing a solution!

There'd be no end to this debacle because basically no party is willing to agree with the other.

Definitely! We have different thoughts and believes but no one should be called a commie or something else if he does not stand by your side. This thread was not established for such purpose and you did not build this thread to brand us as such.


Let us move on to the next news then. All the ideas have been given, all the name calling done.

We demand a public apology after the public humiliation of being branded as commies. A reservist was called a commie for the 1st time here in SSC by a civilian! :ohno:


Now, moving on, are there any new updates about the stand off?

http://www.interaksyon.com/article/33940/china-confirms-pullout-from-scarborough

MANILA – China has confirmed the removal of all government vessels from the disputed Scarborough Shoal.

All claimant nations should submit to the ITLOS their claims and eventually abide and respect its ruling...We are all civilized nations so let's all act accordingly.

That is what we should continue to tell China. They are a signatory to the UNCLOS in the first place. They must abide with the code of conduct in the dispute and exercise restraint in dealing with the other claimant countries.

The Philippines has always been firm on its stand that only through abiding to international can the dispute be settled peacefully.

Sana may LIKE button dito dahil SUPER LIKE ko ito! :)



Nothing is settled because what do you want? You keep on opposing but not proposing a solution!



Definitely! We have different thoughts and believes but no one should be called a commie or something else if he does not stand by your side. This thread was not established for such purpose and you did not build this thread to brand us as such.



We demand a public apology after the public humiliation of being branded as commies. A reservist was called a commie for the 1st time here in SSC by a civilian! :ohno:



http://www.interaksyon.com/article/33940/china-confirms-pullout-from-scarborough

I don't want to repeat myself over and over again. What I want is that China learn to exercise restraint and obey to international law. That they be consistent to what their foreign ministry says.

They said they will withdraw but how will you explain the reports from the AFP that there are STILL Chinese government vessels in the area? China should be consistent to what it says or no one will ever believe them.

Public apology? I don't think so.

China Telecom attacked by hacker group

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20120608000052&cid=1103

Perhaps the govt. and military communication should be preparing double-triple firewall
network against this hackers.



I worry more about the commercial sites that the government sites.

Public apology? I don't think so.

EH GAGO KA PALA EH SINO TINATAWAG MO NA COMMIE KANINA??? KUNG MANG INSULTO KA PARANG MAS ANGAT KA PA SA MGA NANINILBIHAN SA BANSA NATEN AH

KUNG PINOY KA DI KA MATATAKOT KUNG AATAKEHIN ANG BANSA MO NG MGA PIRATA KAHIT ANONG BOMBA PA IHULOG NILA !!!WALANG PILIPINONG BAYANI AT MAKABANSA NA NAWAWALAN NG BAYAG SIMULA NG PUMASOK ANG MGA DAYUHAN SA BANSA!!!

I worry more about the commercial sites that the government sites.

Kasi sigurado lahat ng data ng gobiyerno nasa baul parin tinatambak. Wala silang mahihitang impormasyon sa government sites. Sa commercial sites baka meron pa. :lol:

Kasi sigurado lahat ng data ng gobiyerno nasa baul parin tinatambak. Wala silang mahihitang impormasyon sa government sites. Sa commercial sites baka meron pa. :lol:

Exactly. Parang websites nung early 2000 ang government sites natin :lol:

sino po sa inyo ang hindi matatakot kapag nakitang nahuhulog sa langit ang mga bomba? :lol: :lol:

KUNG PINOY KA DI KA MATATAKOT KUNG AATAKEHIN ANG BANSA MO NG MGA PIRATA KAHIT ANONG BOMBA PA IHULOG NILA !!!WALANG PILIPINONG BAYANI AT MAKABANSA NA NAWAWALAN NG BAYAG SIMULA NG PUMASOK ANG MGA DAYUHAN SA BANSA!!!

Your idea of nationalism and patriotism is shallow..:bash:

That is what we should continue to tell China. They are a signatory to the UNCLOS in the first place. They must abide with the code of conduct in the dispute and exercise restraint in dealing with the other claimant countries.

The Chinese has refused our invitation to bring the matter to dispute settlement under UNCLOS rules.

The only options that we should consider in settling the Scarborough Shoal ownership dispute are those that are diplomatic or peaceful in nature.

The Philippines has always been firm on its stand that only through abiding to international can the dispute be settled peacefully.
The only options that we should consider in settling the Scarborough Shoal ownership dispute are those that are diplomatic or peaceful in nature.
The filing of diplomatic protests is in order as it will send the message of the country’s seriousness in its territorial claim over the Scarborough Shoal. A continuing dialogue between Manila and Beijing should also be pursued to explore arrangements, if not solutions, that will be acceptable to both the Philippines and China.

The Chinese has refused our invitation to bring the matter to dispute settlement under UNCLOS rules.

The only options that we should consider in settling the Scarborough Shoal ownership dispute are those that are diplomatic or peaceful in nature.


The only options that we should consider in settling the Scarborough Shoal ownership dispute are those that are diplomatic or peaceful in nature.
The filing of diplomatic protests is in order as it will send the message of the country’s seriousness in its territorial claim over the Scarborough Shoal. A continuing dialogue between Manila and Beijing should also be pursued to explore arrangements, if not solutions, that will be acceptable to both the Philippines and China.

This two has already been said and done but nothing happened. The Commie China always does the opposite on what they are saying. Internationalizing the issue has work wonders for us. So why not continue doing it.

I support The Philippines stand on Scarborough Shoal, Military modernization etc.
but isnt it a little intolerant to wrongly accused someone cause he doesnt agree with you. is that how they show their tolerance? Everyone has the right to free speech and their own opinion. ITO PA COMMIE DAW AKO OR RUSSIAN SPY KASI HINDI AKO NAG TATAGALOG? I thought this forum was an international forum and I'm not really comfortable with my tagalog to be honest but I can safely say, that I'm a Filipino and Proud!

:lol: making stories??? why are you still here commies??? Why are you still here discussing issues that concerns us and OUR country not YOURS???stop fooling people here, gmaer although have his own opinions and not everyone here would probably agree but at least we know he's a filipino BUT YOU???:lol:

Why MDT with China??? I thought M for MDT stands for MUTUAL???Mutual Defense Treaty with China? Are we fooling ourselves, the only danger and threat we have is China and now these murderer and useless senatongs are thinking of having MDT with China? Ano ba pinakain sa kanila???Mutual defense is when you share at least the same enemies, the same idealism, same policies. Are we sharing that with China? Are we gonna work side by side with a rogue state, a communist, a human rights abuser, a liar, a bully, a pirate, hello, are we that stupid and desperate enough???

Halos walang kwenta makipag deal sa China. Isa ang China sa mga pumirma sa UNCLOS pero ayaw nila dalhin sa ITLOS...tapos nag announce sila ng fishing ban sa Panatag pero sila mismo and sila lang ang bansang nag-uudyok sa poaching doon. Yung idea na MDT sa China ay isang malaking kalokohan.

Your idea of nationalism and patriotism is shallow..:bash:

wala kalang bayag!!!:ohno:

Whichever has the more powerful engine (the Mi-17 is the winner) and rate of climb (the W3 Sokol is the winner). Their speed difference is only by 10 km/h but the W3 Sokol offers more range on internal fuel. Therefore the W3 Sokol is more economical for such purpose; and it's cheaper than the Mi-17.

The point of having medium and heavy lift helicopters is to cover tasks light helicopters can't do like carry or transport heavier loads, there is a reason why aside from Blackhawks the US also have Super Stallions and Chinooks .

76C9PcRvpb8
Thai air force MI17V5 whitin the cargo hold

The US Navy 7th fleet has to travel from South Korea, Japan and Guam to help us after the 1st shot is fired as they are not allowed temporary basing rights here in our country -- they will be blocked by the Chinese Navy along the way thus delaying our much needed RESBAK!

China can't block anything for long and is in a very bad strategic position to hold out for long, at the end of the day it will be bombed back to the stoneage in a conventional war and anyone siding with China would likewise get bombed to the stoneage .

During the Falkland Islands War, France did not take sides when 2 of its allies went to war with each other (United Kingdom vs. Argentina). In fact, the UK Royal Navy Type 42 destroyer HMS Sheffield was sank by a French-made Exocet anti-ship missile strike from Argentine attack jets. On the other hand, a UK helicopter that was co-developed with France, destroyed an Argentine submarine!

France ultimately sided with Britain and France will always ultimately side with Britain :


FRANCE was Britain's greatest ally during the Falklands war, providing secret information to enable MI6 agents to sabotage Exocet missiles which were desperately sought by Argentina, according to Sir John Nott, who was Defence Secretary during the conflict.

In his memoirs he reveals that while President Reagan was pressurising Lady Thatcher to accept a negotiated settlement France helped Britain to win the conflict.

Although Lady Thatcher clashed with President Mitterrand over the future direction of Europe, he immediately came to her aid after Argentine forces invaded the Falklands in April 1982.

"In so many ways Mitterrand and the French were our greatest allies," Sir John says. As soon as the conflict began, France made available to Britain Super-Etendard and Mirage aircraft - which it had supplied to Argentina - so Harrier pilots could train against them.

The French gave Britain information on the Exocet - which sank the Sheffield and Atlantic Conveyor - showing how to tamper with it.

"A remarkable worldwide operation then ensued to prevent further Exocets being bought by Argentina," Sir John says.

"I authorised our agents to pose as bona fide purchasers of equipment on the international market, ensuring that we outbid the Argentinians, and other agents identified Exocet missiles in markets and rendered them inoperable."

He contrasts the French attitude with America's attempts to find a face-saving deal for President Galtieri, the Argentine dictator."For all Margaret Thatcher's friendship with Ronald Reagan, he remained a West Coast American looking south to Latin America and west to the Pacific. Sometimes I wondered if he even knew or cared where Europe was."

Caspar Weinberger, the US defence secretary, supported Britain but the State Department was "dominated by Latinos".

"There was incredible pressure from the White House and the State Department to negotiate. It was hugely damaging," Sir John told The Telegraph. "They couldn't understand that to us any negotiated settlement would have seemed like a defeat."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1387576/How-France-helped-us-win-Falklands-war-by-John-Nott.html


----


There is nothing wrong with friendly port visits and joint security excercises from time to time but an actual MDT is illogical to say the least and would be going too far and would do nothing but destroy the countries credibility in the eye's of our real allies .

There is a premium for loyalty and a price to be paid for betrayal .

The Chinese has refused our invitation to bring the matter to dispute settlement under UNCLOS rules.

The only options that we should consider in settling the Scarborough Shoal ownership dispute are those that are diplomatic or peaceful in nature.


The only options that we should consider in settling the Scarborough Shoal ownership dispute are those that are diplomatic or peaceful in nature.
The filing of diplomatic protests is in order as it will send the message of the country’s seriousness in its territorial claim over the Scarborough Shoal. A continuing dialogue between Manila and Beijing should also be pursued to explore arrangements, if not solutions, that will be acceptable to both the Philippines and China.


what solutions, arrangements do you think is acceptable with China? Isn't it obvious enough that they would not surrender their claims in Panatag Shoal? Geez you seem to be not reading the news:ohno: And isn't your post contradicting enough???You admit China don't accept our invitation and yet you said we need diplomatic and peaceful solutions. How can there be peace when someone refuses it? Peace cannot be attained by one side only.

IMO the only option we have is to upgrade our defense as quickly as possible and to sign MDT with strong countries that at least share our enemies and ideals as a country perhaps. When you are strong no one dares to bully you. So we have no option but to make our country strong so the bullies will have a second thought next time.

geez why did i even bother to waste my few seconds with someone who's not a fellow:|:wallbash:

geez why did i even bother to waste my few seconds with someone who's not a fellow:|:wallbash:

:lol: making stories??? why are you still here commies??? Why are you still here discussing issues that concerns us and OUR country not YOURS???stop fooling people here, gmaer although have his own opinions and not everyone here would probably agree but at least we know he's a filipino BUT YOU???:lol:

LUCKYLADY I don't intend to sound haughty or mean but this is not your forum. Take the post or not, that choice is yours but dont degrade others because of their thoughts or opinions. Im a bit annoyed beacause I dont think I deserved them anyway.

Our geographic location, unfortunately, doesn't allow us to be effectively neutral.
Particularly, when shit does happen. In war, you cannot expect agreements/treaties to transfer smoothly from paper to actions.
I like what another user said here. I can't see a military alliance between us and China for as long as the latter remains a fascist/communist state. Trade partner, yes. Militarily no. Yung Japan pwede pa. Like South Korea and Australia, Japan is already familiar with our ethics, values, ideals and idealogy and most importantly, they have already learned from their nationalist aggression which caused the Pacific WW2.
Also, having alliances with two competing 'superpowers' is a bad deal. Provokes suspicion and betrayal of trust on both sides of the aisle. That would escalate tensions more than anything.
CHINA is still like that neighbor on a probationary period. She might be good enough to borrow a cup of sugar sometimes but talks shit and tresspasses your fence at the same time. So we have to be wary not too trusting.

China has already said that diplomacy is for the weak.

Ain't it clear??

Kaya dung dumating si Papi bigla silang "nanlambot" :lol:

Of course, we should use diplomacy...to give us time to upgrade our defenses and create alliances and to make our claims and stance far more credible than the Chinese

Our geographic location, unfortunately, doesn't allow us to be effectively neutral.
Particularly, when shit does happen. In war, you cannot expect agreements/treaties to transfer smoothly from paper to actions.
I like what another user said here. I can't see a military alliance between us and China for as long as the latter remains a fascist/communist state. Trade partner, yes. Militarily no. Yung Japan pwede pa. Like South Korea and Australia, Japan is already familiar with our ethics, values, ideals and idealogy and most importantly, they have already learned from their nationalist aggression which caused the Pacific WW2.
Also, having alliances with two competing 'superpowers' is a bad deal. Provokes suspicion and betrayal of trust on both sides of the aisle. That would escalate tensions more than anything.
CHINA is still like that neighbor on a probationary period. She might be good enough to borrow a cup of sugar sometimes but talks shit and tresspasses your fence at the same time. So we have to be wary not too trusting.


Baka maging Pakistan 2.0 tayo nyan :lol:

^^ I read an article sometime by accident. Can't find it now but it basically implies that China is also playing both hands. Nagsisigasiga sila sa Pakistan against the US pero in private they were also advising Pakistan not to push it far:lol::lol:
Recently their dam project in Iran was also canceled because the Iranians wanted the project themselves:lol:

Tapos ang mature-mature naman nila. Hanggang sa sports ba naman?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/chinese-team-calls-off-philippine-friendly-games-065925337--nba.html

"We received an e-mail from the vice general manager of Shanghai Sharks, Mr. Andy Qian. They requested for the postponement of the event to a later date," said Balunan, a senior aide of the commission's chief.

Qian's message said the games, against a local professional team and an all-star line-up, had to be suspended because the Chinese side did not have time to obtain passports before the June 26-July 1 visit, Balunan said.

However Balunan said the commission was "surprised" by Qian's reason since the Shanghai Sharks players had more than enough time to get the proper papers...

Visiting forces agreement between Phl, Singapore under review (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=815421&publicationSubCategoryId=63)
By Alexis Romero (The Philippine Star) Updated June 09, 2012 12:00 AM

Manila, Philippines - A proposed visiting forces agreement between the Philippines and Singapore is now being reviewed by the Department of National Defense (DND).

DND spokesman Peter Galvez said they are now gathering inputs on the agreement, which aims to enhance the interoperability of Philippine and Singaporean militaries.

“It (proposed visiting forces deal with Singapore) is under review and we are looking into comments and experiences so that it will be well-crafted,” Galvez told The STAR in a phone interview Wednesday.

Galvez said the Philippines and Singapore had a military training agreement in 1994. He said the joint exercises were suspended in 1996 after it was learned that there are portions of the deal that requires Senate ratification.

The agreement, called the Anoa-Singa bilateral exercises, allowed hundreds of Singaporean troops to train in key military camps like Fort Magsaysay in Nueva Ecija and Fort Bonifacio in Taguig.

A military source who participated in the short-lived exercise told The STAR the trainings were halted amid the controversy surrounding the execution of Filipina domestic helper Flor Contemplacion in Singapore.

The agreement is similar to the proposed visiting forces deals that the Philippines entered into with the United States and Australia.

It also has provisions on the conduct of joint military drills and training, the movement and use of equipment and the jurisdiction of soldiers accused of crimes.

“Singapore eventually submitted (a draft agreement) late 2007, which is now under study,” Galvez said.

The DND has no time frame as to when it intends to finalize the agreement.

“It is a legal matter so we have to look at every angle,” Galvez said.

Galvez, however, said the government remains open to enhancing its defense ties with other countries.

“We are open to looking into having visiting forces agreement with other countries,” he said.

Galvez stressed conducting joint exercises has advantages as this provides Filipino troops opportunities to learn from their foreign counterparts.

“It can improve interoperability which is useful in times of disasters,” Galvez said.

The drills could boost the troops’ capabilities against transnational crimes like terrorism, piracy and human trafficking, he added.

Galvez also described the ties between the Philippines and Singapore as “warm and cordial.”

A treaty should be approved by Malacañang before it is transmitted to the Senate for ratification. It can only be enforced once it secures the concurrence of senators.

In 1999, the Senate ratified the visiting forces agreement with the United States, the first treaty of its kind to be approved by the body.

The agreement was ratified amid criticisms by militant groups who claim that it infringes upon the country’s sovereignty.

The treaty paved way for the return of US troops to the Philippines in 2002, a decade after the shutdown of their bases here.

The status of visiting forces agreement or SOVFA with Australia has also been submitted to the Senate for ratification.

The Senate, however, adjourned last Wednesday without approving the agreement.

All Singaporeans mandatory serve their military at the age of 18 years old, Ironically 75% of their population is Chinese! :lol:

so willing parin yun singapore for this VFA? kasi 16 yrs ng na suspend...

so willing parin yun singapore for this VFA? kasi 16 yrs ng na suspend...

Delikado dahil marami parin tayong domestic helpers dun at marami din Intsik dun hindi naten alam kung ano ang paniniwala at paninindigan nila sa nangyayari saten bansa at sa Tsina!

DND spokesman Peter Galvez said they are now gathering inputs on the agreement, which aims to enhance the interoperability of Philippine and Singaporean militaries.

“It (proposed visiting forces deal with Singapore) is under review and we are looking into comments and experiences so that it will be well-crafted,” Galvez told The STAR in a phone interview Wednesday.

Galvez said the Philippines and Singapore had a military training agreement in 1994. He said the joint exercises were suspended in 1996 after it was learned that there are portions of the deal that requires Senate ratification.

The agreement, called the Anoa-Singa bilateral exercises, allowed hundreds of Singaporean troops to train in key military camps like Fort Magsaysay in Nueva Ecija and Fort Bonifacio in Taguig.

A military source who participated in the short-lived exercise told The STAR the trainings were halted amid the controversy surrounding the execution of Filipina domestic helper Flor Contemplacion in Singapore.

Geneva Convention naman ngayon! Alam nyo na ba mga pinagsasabi ninyo? OO hindi lahat ng nasa Geneva Convention ay nasusunod so ano punto mo, hindi rerespetuhin ng China ang isang MDT sa Pilipinas? Kung ganun eh pwede naman hindi pirmahan ng Pilipinas ang MDT na yun kung alam ng mga mas propesyonal na mga tao sa Pilipinas na hindi masusunod ang MDT sa China!

Baket walang makapangontra sa naging partisipasyon ng France nung Falkland Islands War kung san parehas na alyado ng France ang nag-gerahan pero walang kinampihan ang France sa 2?

the war on falkland islands is a totally different issue...
my point? why enter into an MDT with a nation that can't be trusted? Besides, we're already in the middle of a situation here.. believe it or not, China and the Philippines do not share a common perspective... do you think a potential aggressor's gonna defend its target? LOL:lol:

^^ I can't see the logic in doing so. LOL. :lol:

i know, right? LOL:lol:

^^ There's a new MDT proposal in town (Singapore) but you still want to discuss the proposed MDT with China, this is the Philippine Defense Forces thread NOT an Anti-Chinese protest thread so be open minded!

i know, right? LOL:lol:

You know nothing but to rant and spam other posters! :ohno:

^^ I can't see the logic in doing so. LOL. :lol:

i know, right? LOL:lol:

walang wala.

parang binigay mo ang bank account number at PIN mo sa magnanakaw kung makikipag MDT with China as of the moment. When China has a different, more democratic and friendlier government and respects our sovereignty, why not.

But as of now. Big NO

^^ A big hell of a NO! :lol:

But personally, if I were to decide, I won't allow an MDT with China. THEN, NOW, OR EVER! :bash:

LUCKYLADY I don't intend to sound haughty or mean but this is not your forum. Take the post or not, that choice is yours but dont degrade others because of their thoughts or opinions. Im a bit annoyed beacause I dont think I deserved them anyway.

YES of course this is NOT my forum but this is Philippine forum ,alright? If you can't stand people who opposes you here you have a choice also. And remember, saying you're not a filipino didn't really came from me or anyone here, you were betrayed by your own post, remember?:lol:

^^ There's a new MDT proposal in town (Singapore) but you still want to discuss the proposed MDT with China, this is the Philippine Defense Forces thread NOT an Anti-Chinese protest thread so be open minded!



You know nothing but to rant and spam other posters! :ohno:

you know what, if you beg to differ, i respect it.. but why can't you respect other people's opinions too??? i find your logic so out of place, and others do too... and by not agreeing with you, you're saying that I "rant" and "spam"? do you even know what the words "rant" and "spam" mean? I am not attacking you as a person but i am in contradiction to your idea.. so does that means i'm ranting? pardon me for the word, but an MDT with China is just plain stupid. LOL:lol:

but you still want to discuss the proposed MDT with China:
you brought it up, I just stated my opinion, which unfortunately is a contradiction to yours.. The reason why it took several pages before I could post a reply to your "MDT WITH CHINA" proposal is that I was at work and I just got home.. It's not like it's a dead topic that I'm trying to dig desperately.

this is the Philippine Defense Forces thread NOT an Anti-Chinese protest thread so be open minded!
exactly, Philippine Defense Forces Thread. Are we gonna risk our defenses by sharing info or opening a door to a potential aggressor?

You know nothing but to rant and spam other posters! :ohno:
I know nothing....? are you trying to define me as a person? now who's ranting?

walang wala.

parang binigay mo ang bank account number at PIN mo sa magnanakaw kung makikipag MDT with China as of the moment. When China has a different, more democratic and friendlier government and respects our sovereignty, why not.

But as of now. Big NO

^^ A big hell of a NO! :lol:

But personally, if I were to decide, I won't allow an MDT with China. THEN, NOW, OR EVER! :bash:

Lacson and Honasan have the similarity, they both want MDT with China and both of these guys haven't really contributed much to our country. Sorry but why should we listen to these useless senatongs:ohno: Only a prostitute would have an MDT with China. I remember that painting shared by one poster here a few pages back, maybe we can substitute russia's position there with us.:| what's that for the philippines, huh?:lol:

walang wala.

parang binigay mo ang bank account number at PIN mo sa magnanakaw kung makikipag MDT with China as of the moment. When China has a different, more democratic and friendlier government and respects our sovereignty, why not.

But as of now. Big NO

MDT with who??? the commies???ugok yata yan,..:ohno:parang cnasabi nya na nawalan na tuluyan ng bayag,..

Delikado dahil marami parin tayong domestic helpers dun at marami din Intsik dun hindi naten alam kung ano ang paniniwala at paninindigan nila sa nangyayari saten bansa at sa Tsina!

Singapore have a stronger military relationship with Taiwan than China. I guess they also have a sort of MDT or something.

YES of course this is NOT my forum but this is Philippine forum ,alright? If you can't stand people who opposes you here you have a choice also. And remember, saying you're not a filipino didn't really came from me or anyone here, you were betrayed by your own post, remember?:lol:

IMHO This is not just a Philippine forum but the Philippine Defense Forces thread so all discussions should relate only to the AFP/PNP/DND and nothing else. If there's nothing to discuss about our military and police forces but personal Anti-China sentiments then it's wise to not post at all and save the thread from immediate closure due to uncontrollable off topic posts.

you know what, if you beg to differ, i respect it.. but why can't you respect other people's opinions too??? i find your logic so out of place, and others do too... and by not agreeing with you, you're saying that I "rant" and "spam"? do you even know what the words "rant" and "spam" mean?

Oh yes I do! Do you want me to be on monitoring mode so I can compile all spam and rant comments made on this thread? Too bad the moderators are not taking actions but to just close the thread as soon as massive spamming and ranting goes out of hand.

I am not attacking you as a person but i am in contradiction to your idea.. so does that means i'm ranting? pardon me for the word, but an MDT with China is just plain stupid. LOL:lol:

Was I the one who proposed an MDT with China? It isn't even my idea so come on quote me to prove your claim! I just explained what an MDT can do for us but I did not say that I want it so badly.

Singapore have a stronger military relationship with Taiwan than China. I guess they also have a sort of MDT or something.

Singapore doesn't really need an MDT because of their strong and modern armed forces. The only country that badly needs an MDT is us, the Philippines because we can't rely too much on our grandfathered MDT with the United States since they too have their own problems at home.

http://www.9abc.net/wp-content/uploads/ta-thumbnails-cache/TAdownload/2011/9/32935-1.jpg
Singapore is the only navy in the ASEAN that has stealth warships!

IMHO This is not just a Philippine forum but the Philippine Defense Forces thread so all discussions should relate only to the AFP/PNP/DND and nothing else. If there's nothing to discuss about our military and police forces but personal Anti-China sentiments then it's wise to not post at all and save the thread from immediate closure due to uncontrollable off topic posts.

isn't it noynoying or buying time while we upgrade our country's defense, one of our great defenses now:lol:

if ranting is one way we could be heard and the world will know the bullying of china against us, then by all i means all Filipinos should keep on ranting!

And i think many posts here are not really personal anti china sentiments, because it has really nothing to do with our own selves only but it is regarding our country's sentiments on sovereignty. Filipinos have nothing againts the chinese themselves but their communist government who is slowly usurping our territories.

And there's no better time to ask filipinos to get involved with issues that concerns ourcountry, but now. :cheers:

Baket walang makapangontra sa naging partisipasyon ng France nung Falkland Islands War kung san parehas na alyado ng France ang nag-gerahan pero walang kinampihan ang France sa 2?

the war on falkland islands is a totally different issue...
my point? why enter into an MDT with a nation that can't be trusted? Besides, we're already in the middle of a situation here.. believe it or not, China and the Philippines do not share a common perspective... do you think a potential aggressor's gonna defend its target? LOL

Actually i corrected that flawed view of France and it's position during the Falklands war in a previous post but just in case people missed it :

FRANCE was Britain's greatest ally during the Falklands war, providing secret information to enable MI6 agents to sabotage Exocet missiles which were desperately sought by Argentina, according to Sir John Nott, who was Defence Secretary during the conflict.

In his memoirs he reveals that while President Reagan was pressurising Lady Thatcher to accept a negotiated settlement France helped Britain to win the conflict.

Although Lady Thatcher clashed with President Mitterrand over the future direction of Europe, he immediately came to her aid after Argentine forces invaded the Falklands in April 1982.

"In so many ways Mitterrand and the French were our greatest allies," Sir John says. As soon as the conflict began, France made available to Britain Super-Etendard and Mirage aircraft - which it had supplied to Argentina - so Harrier pilots could train against them.

The French gave Britain information on the Exocet - which sank the Sheffield and Atlantic Conveyor - showing how to tamper with it.

"A remarkable worldwide operation then ensued to prevent further Exocets being bought by Argentina," Sir John says.

"I authorised our agents to pose as bona fide purchasers of equipment on the international market, ensuring that we outbid the Argentinians, and other agents identified Exocet missiles in markets and rendered them inoperable."

He contrasts the French attitude with America's attempts to find a face-saving deal for President Galtieri, the Argentine dictator."For all Margaret Thatcher's friendship with Ronald Reagan, he remained a West Coast American looking south to Latin America and west to the Pacific. Sometimes I wondered if he even knew or cared where Europe was."

Caspar Weinberger, the US defence secretary, supported Britain but the State Department was "dominated by Latinos".

"There was incredible pressure from the White House and the State Department to negotiate. It was hugely damaging," Sir John told The Telegraph. "They couldn't understand that to us any negotiated settlement would have seemed like a defeat."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...John-Nott.html


----

On the issue of MDT it would be illogical to have one with China as such a deal would not be acceptable to the US and it's allies and the RP will immediately feel the heat from such foolish actions the US and it's lawmakers will consider such a thing to be a grave insult and betrayal of trust and basically tear up any existing MDT and drop the Phillippines like a ton of bricks, furthermore China can barely protect itself it's armed forces quality is low and lacks the means to effectively project the type of power needed to defend the Phillippines from the USA and other major powers in the region, furthermore China is strategically boxed in and can't survive a war of attrition it would be on it's knees whitin weeks and mere month's later end up in a big mess, so such fantasies of an mdt would not even be worth the paper it's written on .

Lol furthermore if the Phillippines does sign such a treaty with China there will be coups in Manila to depose such a government just to prove how weak China is .

----

Singapore is a more natural ally in asean it is a close US ally soon to recieve increased basing of US navy ships, they need and recieve MDT's because they are a small country but one that is recognized to be a crucial part of the global economic order, they also lack space for training this is why Singapore air force jets and pilots even train in France and the US, opening up the Phillippines to Singapore is a good deal in many ways including business opportunities for providing services to their visiting forces and further developing strong strategic ties with allies across the region .

We're so stuck with the mdt with china idea ....it's almost june 12. I hope china will be sane enough not to crush our spirits that day

Singapore doesn't really need an MDT because of their strong and modern armed forces. The only country that badly needs an MDT is us, the Philippines because we can't rely too much on our grandfathered MDT with the United States since they too have their own problems at home.

http://www.9abc.net/wp-content/uploads/ta-thumbnails-cache/TAdownload/2011/9/32935-1.jpg
Singapore is the only navy in the ASEAN that has stealth warships!

no what i mean is they have a sort of military treaty or sort of agreements with Taiwan and we know very well who are their MDT (Mutual Defense Threat):lol:

Yes we badly needs MDT with stronger and democratic countries that shares at least our ideologies and policies. So we have MDT now with US, Aussie, what's next Japan, SK, India and ISRAEL i hope except China:lol:

Was I the one who proposed an MDT with China? It isn't even my idea so come on quote me to prove your claim! I just explained what an MDT can do for us but I did not say that I want it so badly.

I did not say that the "whole MDT with China" idea came from you. But you're probably the only one in this thread that's in favor with it.. And apparently, there are more reasons why we should be against rather than in favor with it.. Besides, you have so many ideas that's kind of saying where your loyalty is:

1. A senator has realized the bad effects of US bases in our country!
------- OK! we don't have US bases anymore.. what we have is an MDT with the US. from time to time, we might see US warships within our territorial waters. Isn't that gonna happen if we have MDT with China? Oh yes, It won't because you could omit the "from time to time" part!

2. I also don't like these MDTs even the RP-US MDT is no longer favorable to me...
-------- but you are open to MDT with China? now where's your loyalty? to an MDT with a long-time ally that is duly recognized by our country and its people and constitution? or to a potential giveaway of our sovereignty with an MDT with a potential aggressor? LOL!

3. Then what do you call a weak Philippines which already has an MDT with a very strong United States? What is our bargaining power? Having an MDT with China does NOT mean the Philippines will give up all its claims and be a vassal state to them
--------what argument are you trying to bring up? are you questioning our MDT with the US? do you have a better plan? are you trying to say that we should consider MDT with China instead?



Here are just some of your posts I quoted so you remember:
Ping cautions DND on allowing US troops to use Subic, Clark (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=815110&publicationSubCategoryId=63)
By Christina Mendez (The Philippine Star) Updated June 08, 2012 12:00 AM



A senator has realized the bad effects of US bases in our country!


Anyway, I also don't like these MDTs even the RP-US MDT is no longer favorable to me because it is a 60 year old treaty with grandfathered agreements between the United States and the Philippines.



Oh Really? Then what do you call a weak Philippines which already has an MDT with a very strong United States? What is our bargaining power? Having an MDT with China does NOT mean the Philippines will give up all its claims and be a vassal state to them, since when did this to happen to us in our other MDT? Like I said, it will depend on the contents (articles) of the agreed MDT on both countries.



The letter I received was for all reserved officers to be on standby alert -- it can be another exhausting drill or a real war. The one and only time I saw action was during special elections in the ARMM and I did receive a letter back then asking me if I am able to serve for a bloody sentry duty but before and after that were numerous regional drills.

Like I have always said, it will depend on the articles of the agreed MDT on both countries. It is called a Mutual Defense Treaty (not a Parasitic Defense Treaty) therefore both countries should agree with the full contents of the accord before they sign it. Gets??? :ohno:

It will depend on the contents (articles) of the MDT. See example here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Defense_Treaty_(U.S.%E2%80%93Philippines)#Specifics) based from the US-RP MDT.



Anything is possible since a shooting war hasn't started! Be open minded to our senators' proposals, who voted them into power anyway if their proposals will not be heard? They don't just make personal opinions like we do here in SSC.

Whichever has the more powerful engine (the Mi-17 is the winner) and rate of climb (the W3 Sokol is the winner). Their speed difference is only by 10 km/h but the W3 Sokol offers more range on internal fuel. Therefore the W3 Sokol is more economical for such purpose; and it's cheaper than the Mi-17.



Not really! SK enemy is NK not China which is North Korea's one and only ally while India's foe is Pakistan not China which is one of Pakistan's major military trading partner. An MDT is not meant to wage war, hence, Mutual Defense Treaty.

On the issue of MDT it would be illogical to have one with China as such a deal would not be acceptable to the US and it's allies and the RP will immediately feel the heat from such foolish actions the US will basically drop the Phillippines like a ton of bricks, furthermore China can barely protect itself it's armed forces quality is low and lacks the means to effectively project the type of power needed to defend the Phillippines from other major powers in the region, furthermore China is strategically boxed in and can't survive a war of attrition it would be on it's knees whitin month's and end up in a big mess, so such fantasies of an mdt would not even be worth the paper it's written on .

kaya nga i am really surprised why this idea was farted by those 2 senaTONGS. we just give china more reason to think they're a superpower already:lol:

the war on falkland islands is a totally different issue...
my point? why enter into an MDT with a nation that can't be trusted? Besides, we're already in the middle of a situation here.. believe it or not, China and the Philippines do not share a common perspective... do you think a potential aggressor's gonna defend its target? LOL:lol:

walang wala.

parang binigay mo ang bank account number at PIN mo sa magnanakaw kung makikipag MDT with China as of the moment. When China has a different, more democratic and friendlier government and respects our sovereignty, why not.

But as of now. Big NO

My sentiments exactly. MDT between the US and the Philippines is not just an ordinary treaty. It is the highest level of defense treaty because it is obligatory in nature that is in tune with its objective of defending one another when they were attacked. In other words, trust alone is the basis of for ratifying this treaty with US.

Now, what those retarded senators are suggesting for an idea of an MDT with China is very disastrous to our current relations with the US as well as the allies. I remembered back then when Enrile suggested to abrogate the treaty unilaterally. United States would do the same thing with Philippines if we make the dumbest move to ratify our own MDT with China. We are damaged goods baby!

When that happens, let's save our last goodbyes to our Panatag, Spratlys and maybe even the Benham Rise. :D. :lol::lol:

Yes we badly needs MDT with stronger and democratic countries that shares at least our ideologies and policies. So we have MDT now with US, Aussie, what's next Japan, SK, India and ISRAEL i hope except China:lol:

FYI Israel has recently renewed its alliance with China just this year.

We're so stuck with the mdt with china idea ....it's almost june 12. I hope china will be sane enough not to crush our spirits that day

You're the one who got stuck with the MDT proposal with China! On post#787 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=92195888&postcount=787), I posted a new proposed MDT and this time with Singapore. Let me repost:

Visiting forces agreement between Phl, Singapore under review (http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=815421&publicationSubCategoryId=63)
By Alexis Romero (The Philippine Star) Updated June 09, 2012 12:00 AM

Manila, Philippines - A proposed visiting forces agreement between the Philippines and Singapore is now being reviewed by the Department of National Defense (DND).

DND spokesman Peter Galvez said they are now gathering inputs on the agreement, which aims to enhance the interoperability of Philippine and Singaporean militaries.

“It (proposed visiting forces deal with Singapore) is under review and we are looking into comments and experiences so that it will be well-crafted,” Galvez told The STAR in a phone interview Wednesday.

Galvez said the Philippines and Singapore had a military training agreement in 1994. He said the joint exercises were suspended in 1996 after it was learned that there are portions of the deal that requires Senate ratification.

The agreement, called the Anoa-Singa bilateral exercises, allowed hundreds of Singaporean troops to train in key military camps like Fort Magsaysay in Nueva Ecija and Fort Bonifacio in Taguig.

A military source who participated in the short-lived exercise told The STAR the trainings were halted amid the controversy surrounding the execution of Filipina domestic helper Flor Contemplacion in Singapore.

The agreement is similar to the proposed visiting forces deals that the Philippines entered into with the United States and Australia.

It also has provisions on the conduct of joint military drills and training, the movement and use of equipment and the jurisdiction of soldiers accused of crimes.

“Singapore eventually submitted (a draft agreement) late 2007, which is now under study,” Galvez said.

The DND has no time frame as to when it intends to finalize the agreement.

“It is a legal matter so we have to look at every angle,” Galvez said.

Galvez, however, said the government remains open to enhancing its defense ties with other countries.

“We are open to looking into having visiting forces agreement with other countries,” he said.

Galvez stressed conducting joint exercises has advantages as this provides Filipino troops opportunities to learn from their foreign counterparts.

“It can improve interoperability which is useful in times of disasters,” Galvez said.

The drills could boost the troops’ capabilities against transnational crimes like terrorism, piracy and human trafficking, he added.

Galvez also described the ties between the Philippines and Singapore as “warm and cordial.”

A treaty should be approved by Malacañang before it is transmitted to the Senate for ratification. It can only be enforced once it secures the concurrence of senators.

In 1999, the Senate ratified the visiting forces agreement with the United States, the first treaty of its kind to be approved by the body.

The agreement was ratified amid criticisms by militant groups who claim that it infringes upon the country’s sovereignty.

The treaty paved way for the return of US troops to the Philippines in 2002, a decade after the shutdown of their bases here.

The status of visiting forces agreement or SOVFA with Australia has also been submitted to the Senate for ratification.

The Senate, however, adjourned last Wednesday without approving the agreement.

I don't mind anyone questioning the US or Australia. No country is perfect, after all. Each country follows their own interests first.
But China is the one we're having problems with right now. Not Papa Sam or Papa Awsie. Therefore, it's bewildering if not suspicious to me why anyone would side with China w/ or without the US.
Yes, China has a modern army compared to us. But it's more of a land-based military at this point. And what should we expect to gain from them in return? This is the same country that rips off Top Gun for its military drills:lol:

Although the trust between the Philippines and US is not 100% it is not at the level of our distrust with China. China openly contradicts itself very much when dealing with us and accuses us for escalating the tension when it is them and their war rhetoric makes us nervous. Would you want to have an MDT with a country like that? A country we almost do not trust. If we allow MDT with China, we will be undet suspicion not only of our allies but our neutral neighbors as well

Having an MDT with China does NOT mean the Philippines will give up all its claims and be a vassal state to them

Lol the irony a mutual defence treaty with a country we would still have to defend ourselves from ... .

Yes, China has a modern army compared to us. But it's more of a land-based military at this point.

China's military is not more advanced it's land forces are pathetic compared to the level of technology Nato and other US allied countries already equip their forces with, they are only now developing the type of network centric warfare systems that NATO and other US allies in Asia already have .

I did not say that the "whole MDT with China" idea came from you. But you're probably the only one in this thread that's in favor with it.. And apparently, there are more reasons why we should be against rather than in favor with it.. Besides, you have so many ideas that's kind of saying where your loyalty is:

I did not say I am in favor of it and don't you question my loyalty because I already served my loyalty very well for this country as a reservist on combat patrol and sentry duty during special elections in the ARMM.


1. A senator has realized the bad effects of US bases in our country!
------- OK! we don't have US bases anymore.. what we have is an MDT with the US. from time to time, we might see US warships within our territorial waters. Isn't that gonna happen if we have MDT with China? Oh yes, It won't because you could omit the "from time to time" part!

Do you actually care about the environment, human rights, and the threat of a nuclear strike if you allow US bases here again? The US have modern air defenses but how about us, the Patriot SAM system success rate was revealed to be poor so how do you think can it defend the US bases here against MIRV warheads? The coverage of the US bases will only be in Luzon but what if the attack was made from the South like what Japan did in WW2 because they too are aware that the US bases are concentrated mostly in Luzon? China has long range submarines that can travel that far!

FYI You also don't need an MDT for foreign warships to do port calls.


2. I also don't like these MDTs even the RP-US MDT is no longer favorable to me...
-------- but you are open to MDT with China? now where's your loyalty? to an MDT that is duly recognized by our nation or to a potential giveaway of our sovereignty with an MDT with a potential aggressor? LOL!

I did not say I am open to MDT with China! I just explained what an MDT can do for us and how it works. Do you know how an MDT works by the way? Or you just know the basic purpose of it but not the entire content of it?


3. Then what do you call a weak Philippines which already has an MDT with a very strong United States? What is our bargaining power? Having an MDT with China does NOT mean the Philippines will give up all its claims and be a vassal state to them
--------what argument are you trying to bring up? are you questioning our MDT with the US? do you have a better plan? are you trying to say that we should consider MDT with China instead?

Again I did not say that we consider the MDT with China so please stop accusing me! My point was no MDT will allow one to be a parasite of another, in this example: giving up our claims and being a vassal state is not a sign of mutuality. Many people other than me has questioned the US-RP MDT numerous times especially on their role with the Scarborough Shoal issue, in the end we have to wait for the 1st shot from China before the US can actually help us so are you in favor of that? What if that 1st shot was a deadly nuclear strike? China can invent stories that they were provoked to launch a ballistic missile attack on us because ramming ships and firing warning shots can be considered provocative especially for an aggressive state.

Are you in favor of getting more 2nd hand military junks because of this RP-US MDT that gives us a limited clause on FMS and EDA?


Here are just some of your posts I quoted so you remember:

Yes I remember but did I, comprehension wise, really supported the idea of an MDT with China? You failed to prove it so it's best that you stop accusing me!

Although the trust between the Philippines and US is not 100% it is not at the level of our distrust with China. China openly contradicts itself very much when dealing with us and accuses us for escalating the tension when it is them and their war rhetoric makes us nervous. Would you want to have an MDT with a country like that? A country we almost do not trust. If we allow MDT with China, we will be undet suspicion not only of our allies but our neutral neighbors as well

China itself is untrustworthy.

They are very bad liars. :lol:

China itself is untrustworthy.

They are very bad liars. :lol:

They lie too much that they almost think that it's 100% certain even though what they say do not connect with each other and their actions.

Sila lang ata naniniwala sa kasinungalingan nila :lol:

Obama backs Philippines on sea freedom

WASHINGTON: The United States and the Philippines on Friday called for freedom of navigation in the tense South China Sea as the White House offered a robust show of support for President Benigno Aquino.

President Barack Obama welcomed Aquino to the White House in the latest high-profile gesture to put a focus on US ties to Asia, where a number of countries are embroiled in territorial conflicts with a rising China.

Addressing reporters next to Aquino in the Oval Office, Obama said the two leaders spoke about "trying to make sure that we have a strong set of international norms and rules governing maritime disputes in the region."

In a joint statement released afterward, the two leaders "underscored the importance of the principles of ensuring freedom of navigation, respect for international law and unimpeded lawful commerce."

Aquino and Obama called for diplomacy to resolve territorial disputes "without coercion or the use of force."

China claims virtually all of the South China Sea up to Southeast Asian nations' shores and tensions have soared in recent years with both the Philippines and Vietnam.

The Philippines and China recently pulled back vessels after a standoff over the Scarborough Shoal, which lies near the main Philippine island of Luzon.

Aquino's visit to the United States was closely watched in China, where some policymakers suspect -- despite official US denials -- that the United States is seeking to encircle the growing Asian power.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, toasting Aquino earlier Friday at a luncheon in his honor, credited Aquino with defusing tensions over the rock formation.

The United States and the Philippines signed agreements to step up cooperation on science and technology and to boost the number of Peace Corps volunteers in the former US colony.

But Aquino's visit was largely symbolic, with many US policymakers believing that the son of democracy heroine Corazon Aquino has revitalized an often overlooked relationship by tackling hard issues.

Aquino recently won a major battle in his campaign against corruption with the sacking of the country's top judge. Aquino has also agreed to let more US troops rotate -- but not be based -- in the Philippines despite the historical baggage.

"I've always found President Aquino to be a thoughtful and very helpful partner," Obama said.

Aquino said his meeting with Obama has "deepened and strengthened a very long relationship we have, especially as we face the challenges that are before both our countries in the current situation."

Clinton and Obama both voiced support for efforts by the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations to reach a code of conduct with China on managing disputes in the South China Sea, through which half of the world's trade flows.

ASEAN and China agreed in 2002 to negotiate a code of conduct. But there has been little progress, with a rising China preferring to negotiate with each country individually instead of dealing with the unified bloc.

In the statement, Obama also pledged US support for Aquino's efforts to upgrade the notoriously antiquated Philippine military and build a "minimum credible defense posture."

The United States has stepped up military aid, including last year delivering a decommissioned coast guard cutter -- which the Philippines rechristened the Gregario del Pilar and replaced a World War II-era vessel as its navy's biggest ship.

The Obama administration has focused on building relations in Asia. In the next week alone, the United States will separately welcome the foreign ministers of Cambodia, India, South Korea and Thailand.

- AFP/fa

http://ph.news.yahoo.com/us-philippines-urge-peaceful-solution-sea-194857468.html


http://s13.postimage.org/aa8xzxc9z/display_image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
2 Chinese surveillance ship left at Scarborough Shoal.

Dont come back.

P-Noy won't drag US military in Phl-China Sea dispute
The Philippine Star
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=815424&publicationSubCategoryId=63

WASHINGTON – President Aquino assured Americans he would not drag the United States in any military intervention in the West Philippine Sea crisis and said he was committed to defusing the tension in Panatag Shoal where Chinese and Philippine vessels have been locked in a standoff since April.

In a speech at the launching of the United States-Philippine Society, Aquino said his administration was engaged in a dialogue with China to find a mutually beneficial way to break the impasse.

“We fully intend to come up with a solution that will maintain the peace and stability of the region while at the same time upholding the dignity and sovereign rights of our people,” he said.

“It is not our intention to embroil the United States in military intervention in our region. At the same time we do recognize that our two nations, with so many other nations, will all share in the peace and prosperity that comes from the US adding its voice to supporting and guaranteeing a rules-based international system,” he said.

The President, who is on a three-day official visit to Washington, will meet President Barack Obama at the White House on Friday (today) at which time he is expected to lay out his request for US military materiel to build a credible defense force.

Presidential Communications Development and Strategic Planning Secretary Ricky Carandang told reporters he did not know how specific Aquino would get because of time constraints “but certainly the broad strokes of what we need will be brought up.”

He emphasized the Philippines was trying to acquire equipment to enhance its defense and not its offensive capability “so that should put to rest concerns other countries might have about our intentions.”

“It is not our intention to enter into an arms race,” he said.

In his briefing, Carandang said having a credible defense force would make potential aggressors think twice before attacking the Philippines.

“If someone wants to attack us we may not be able to hold them off forever, but we can make it very costly for them economically, militarily and politically,” he said.

President Aquino was also honored with a bipartisan Senate reception at Capitol Hill.

He later conferred on Sen. Richard Lugar, a long-time friend of the Philippines, the order of Lakandula with rank of Grand Supremo.

Lugar was the author of a US senate resolution passed on the eve of Aquino’s arrival here calling for increased defense and security cooperation with the Philippines, including support for its defense modernization.

In Manila, Defense spokesman Peter Paul Galvez said the US Senate resolution is also likely to have a positive impact on US-Philippine economic relations.

“Other than promoting greater alliance and enhance security ties, there’s also an economic side to include reforms and trade capacity building,” Galvez said.

He also said the resolution was a reaffirmation of US commitment to help the country.

“It’s a common practice to reiterate issues. People change, administration changed. It would always be good to reiterate our commitment to each other,” he said.

For Senate President Juan Ponce Enrile, the Senate resolution proves that the US will keep a commanding presence in the region.

“America will always be a Pacific power. So it cannot allow anybody in this part of the world to dominate the Pacific area,” Enrile said.

“Ang America hindi nila maaring pabayaan ang Pilipinas. Sila ang nagdala ng demokrasya sa Pilipinas. Sa kaisipan ng buong mundo, ang Pilipinas ay creation ng US (America will never abandon the Philippines. They brought democracy to the Philippines. To the world, the Philippines is a creation of the US),” Enrile said.

Meanwhile, the militant Bagong Alyansang Makabayan (Bayan) said it would launch protest actions in Manila and in major US cities to coincide with Aquino’s US working visit.

“Aquino’s visit to the United States is the culmination of months of meetings, negotiations and discussions for increasing US troop presence in the country and reaffirming unequal economic and politico-military relations. Aquino and US President Barack Obama are expected to once again reaffirm Philippine-US special ties which are nothing more than neo-colonial relations,” Bayan secretary-general Renato Reyes said.

He said Bayan-US chapter will lead protest actions in Los Angeles, Washington, New York and San Francisco.

The Human Rights Watch, for its part, said Obama needs to speak frankly with Aquino regarding the alarming record of abuses committed by Philippine security forces. “Accountability for abuses is not only a matter of justice for victims, but vital for the Philippines’ future as a rights-respecting democracy,” said John Sifton, HRW Asia advocacy director.

“Rather than arguing, making promises, and offering excuses, President Aquino should focus on ending and prosecuting extrajudicial executions,” Sifton said. “He should let actions do the talking.”

He also said US military expansion in Asia should not deter Obama from raising human rights concerns.

China's military is not more advanced it's land forces are pathetic compared to the level of technology Nato and other US allied countries already equip their forces with, they are only now developing the type of network centric warfare systems that NATO and other US allies in Asia already have .

In the event of a real war millions of Chinese soldiers will be eliminated for minimal losses to the allies it won't even be funny, Iraq at one point had one of the largest armies on earth after just a few weeks the remains of thousands of burning and rotting corpses of that army littered the battlefields, in just ten years the arab world and it's enemy regimes has been reduced to rubble and the hitlist isn't over Syria is next and Iran will follow if Pakistan isn't carefull it too will get bombed to the stoneage and frankly China won't be any different if push comes to shove .

http://deoxy.org/gif/torched.jpg

http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploads/Graphics/004/10/004-1031231442-death_highway.jpg

The western alliance knows how to wage war and destroy nations the allies are good at killing and the allies will always win any war .

..and this is real politik sir! Well said..:)

Obama backs Philippines on sea freedom

WASHINGTON: The United States and the Philippines on Friday called for freedom of navigation in the tense South China Sea as the White House offered a robust show of support for President Benigno Aquino.

President Barack Obama welcomed Aquino to the White House in the latest high-profile gesture to put a focus on US ties to Asia, where a number of countries are embroiled in territorial conflicts with a rising China.

Addressing reporters next to Aquino in the Oval Office, Obama said the two leaders spoke about "trying to make sure that we have a strong set of international norms and rules governing maritime disputes in the region."

In a joint statement released afterward, the two leaders "underscored the importance of the principles of ensuring freedom of navigation, respect for international law and unimpeded lawful commerce."

Aquino and Obama called for diplomacy to resolve territorial disputes "without coercion or the use of force."

China claims virtually all of the South China Sea up to Southeast Asian nations' shores and tensions have soared in recent years with both the Philippines and Vietnam.

The Philippines and China recently pulled back vessels after a standoff over the Scarborough Shoal, which lies near the main Philippine island of Luzon.

Aquino's visit to the United States was closely watched in China, where some policymakers suspect -- despite official US denials -- that the United States is seeking to encircle the growing Asian power.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, toasting Aquino earlier Friday at a luncheon in his honor, credited Aquino with defusing tensions over the rock formation.

The United States and the Philippines signed agreements to step up cooperation on science and technology and to boost the number of Peace Corps volunteers in the former US colony.

But Aquino's visit was largely symbolic, with many US policymakers believing that the son of democracy heroine Corazon Aquino has revitalized an often overlooked relationship by tackling hard issues.

Aquino recently won a major battle in his campaign against corruption with the sacking of the country's top judge. Aquino has also agreed to let more US troops rotate -- but not be based -- in the Philippines despite the historical baggage.

"I've always found President Aquino to be a thoughtful and very helpful partner," Obama said.

Aquino said his meeting with Obama has "deepened and strengthened a very long relationship we have, especially as we face the challenges that are before both our countries in the current situation."

Clinton and Obama both voiced support for efforts by the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations to reach a code of conduct with China on managing disputes in the South China Sea, through which half of the world's trade flows.

ASEAN and China agreed in 2002 to negotiate a code of conduct. But there has been little progress, with a rising China preferring to negotiate with each country individually instead of dealing with the unified bloc.

In the statement, Obama also pledged US support for Aquino's efforts to upgrade the notoriously antiquated Philippine military and build a "minimum credible defense posture."

The United States has stepped up military aid, including last year delivering a decommissioned coast guard cutter -- which the Philippines rechristened the Gregario del Pilar and replaced a World War II-era vessel as its navy's biggest ship.

The Obama administration has focused on building relations in Asia. In the next week alone, the United States will separately welcome the foreign ministers of Cambodia, India, South Korea and Thailand.

- AFP/fa

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1206511/1/.html


http://s13.postimage.org/aa8xzxc9z/display_image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)


Dont come back.

lumalabas na usok sa ilong ni angkel Hu :lol:

Bad news for China, good news for the Philippines

So tomorrow the butiki will have its 1 millionth warning:banana:

..and this is real politik sir! Well said..

Lol i edited that post because i thought it would be too frank for this forum lol .

Aquino's visit to the United States was closely watched in China, where some policymakers suspect -- despite official US denials -- that the United States is seeking to encircle the growing Asian power.

Ganon na nga. :lol:

Ganon na nga. :lol:

I'm surprised alam nila :lol:

I did not say I am in favor of it and don't you question my loyalty because I already served my loyalty very well for this country as a reservist on combat patrol and sentry duty during special elections in the ARMM

I have the right to question you when I find good reasons to. Not because you were in service or a reservist or have been in combat means that you are better than the rest of us. I am an ordinary citizen, never been to combat, but at least my ideas are sane. why do you think a lot of other forumers are against your ideas? know what, a good number of the biggest crooks in the country have been in service. So don't be too proud. Just saying!:lol:

I'm surprised alam nila :lol:

Kala nila sila lang marunong magsinungaling. ;) :lol:

I have the right to question you when I find good reasons to. Not because you were in service or a reservist or have been in combat means that you are better than the rest of us. I am an ordinary citizen, never been to combat, but at least my ideas are sane. why do you think a lot of other forumers are against your ideas? know what, a good number of the biggest crooks in the country have been in service. So don't be too proud. Just saying!:lol:

:lol: :lol:

darn straight. binasag mo :lol::lol::lol:

it's sad that rather sharing their knowledge from their experience in service, they make it some kind of something to feel "superior" to others. nakalimutan nila kung saan galing yung pondo/pinapasuweldo sa kanila :lol::lol:

Kala nila sila lang marunong magsinungaling. ;) :lol:

Hindi nila kalevel si papi dyan :lol:

US to help build PH Coast Watch
Rappler.com
http://www.rappler.com/nation/6684-us-to-build-coast

MANILA, Philippines – The United States will beef up the Philippines' maritime security by helping it build a new National Coast Watch Center, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Saturday, June 9, during a luncheon for President Benigno Aquino III.

Clinton hosted the luncheon as part of Aquino's official visit to Washington DC. The visit took place amid the Philippines' ongoing standoff with China over Scarborough Shoal, which is located in the South China Sea.

The United States will help build the coast watch center, among others, as part of the Mutual Defense Treaty between the two countries, according to Clinton.

“As I’ve said many times, the United States does not take a position on the competing territorial claims in the South China Sea. But we do, however, have a clear interest in the maintenance of peace and stability, freedom of navigation, respect for international law, and unimpeded lawful commerce in the South China Sea,” she said.

By definition, a National Coast Watch Center implements and coordinates maritime security operations under the National Coast Watch System (NCWS). Established through an executive order (EO) by Aquino, the NCWS is an interagency mechanism “for a coordinated and coherent approach on maritime issues.”

Clinton added she welcomes Aquino's initial steps to defuse the tension in Scarborough Shoal, noting that the US opposes “the use of force or coercion by any claimant to advance its claims.” She said the US is monitoring the situation closely.

“And we encourage continued diplomatic dialogue and further efforts to lessen tension, to disengage, and to resolve the situation peacefully,” Clinton said.

She also urged the Association of Southeast Asian Nations and China to conclude their efforts to craft a code of conduct for the South China Sea.

'New junction'

In his response to Clinton, Aquino highlighted the enduring partnership between the two countries.

“We are clearly at a new junction in our relations. While we both remain grounded in our shared history and in the democratic principles and values we both hold, our success is also about what we can do together – to build a more stable region and to achieve an even more prosperous future for both our people,” Aquino said.

“I see a very rewarding future ahead of us as we work on the different elements that comprise our partnership, such as our ties in defense and security, in our economies and amongst our peoples,” the President added.

Those boats from Japan would come in handy for this coast watch system .

8JS4VZbCWj8&feature

We must develop recto bank oil and gas fields before the Chinese try to do the same as with Japan and try and suck the ressources from a floating platform anchored just outside the EEZ .

:lol: :lol:

darn straight. binasag mo :lol::lol::lol:

it's sad that rather sharing their knowledge from their experience in service, they make it some kind of something to feel "superior" to others. nakalimutan nila kung saan galing yung pondo/pinapasuweldo sa kanila :lol::lol:

exactly.. :lol:

anyway, arguing with that guy is only getting us nowhere... i'm just sharing my opinion.. at least i know i share the ordinary filipino's sentiments, so i know where i stand!:)

Hindi nila kalevel si papi dyan :lol:

ang tagal na kaya ni Papa Sugar magdouble-dealing at diplomacy. Si Papa Chang kailangan pa maglaro ng baraha more.:lol:

Sigurado ako etong gumagawa ng prototype robot sa Japan ang susunod the next generation military warfare in the future. So we have to close ties partners with them.
http://s7.postimage.org/wruo3lxx7/DSC_2022_m.jpg

ang tagal na kaya ni Papa Sugar magdouble-dealing at diplomacy. Si Papa Chang kailangan pa maglaro ng baraha more.:lol:

Dapat kasi poker nilalaro nila, hindi mahjong para makahabol sila kay papa sugar :lol:

US to help build PH Coast Watch
Rappler.com
http://www.rappler.com/nation/6684-us-to-build-coast

MANILA, Philippines – The United States will beef up the Philippines' maritime security by helping it build a new National Coast Watch Center, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Saturday, June 9, during a luncheon for President Benigno Aquino III.

Clinton hosted the luncheon as part of Aquino's official visit to Washington DC. The visit took place amid the Philippines' ongoing standoff with China over Scarborough Shoal, which is located in the South China Sea.

The United States will help build the coast watch center, among others, as part of the Mutual Defense Treaty between the two countries, according to Clinton.

“As I’ve said many times, the United States does not take a position on the competing territorial claims in the South China Sea. But we do, however, have a clear interest in the maintenance of peace and stability, freedom of navigation, respect for international law, and unimpeded lawful commerce in the South China Sea,” she said.

By definition, a National Coast Watch Center implements and coordinates maritime security operations under the National Coast Watch System (NCWS). Established through an executive order (EO) by Aquino, the NCWS is an interagency mechanism “for a coordinated and coherent approach on maritime issues.”

:cheers::cheers:

So these people are protesting Aquino's visit and increased military alliance between the US and the Philippines but they have not protested against Chinese war rhetoric and disrespect for our sovereignty?

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/39305/bayan-to-hold-protests-in-philippines-us


Hindi ba nila alam marami nang nakakahalata? :lol:

Hindi nila kalevel si papi dyan :lol:

Iba impact pag nagsinungaling si papa compare sa kanila. Natatakot sila. :lol::lol:

Kumpara mo nung nagsinungaling sila Tsong sa atin, hindi tayo natakot. :lol:

So these people are protesting Aquino's visit and increased military alliance between the US and the Philippines but they have not protested against Chinese war rhetoric and disrespect for our sovereignty?

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/39305/bayan-to-hold-protests-in-philippines-us


Hindi ba nila alam marami nang nakakahalata? :lol:

Sana sa kanila i dry run ng mga makabagong armas natin pag dumating. :lol: