Philippine Defense Forces [Archive] - Page 95

Askal82

June 22nd, 2012, 06:32 AM

China tries to tighten grip on Spratlys
by Jojo Malig, ABS-CBNnews.com
Posted at 06/21/2012 9:11 PM | Updated as of 06/21/2012 9:23 PM

MANILA, Philippines - China has flexed its political muscles in the West Philippine Sea by raising the administrative status of the Spratlys and other disputed islets, reefs, and shoals in the West Philippine Sea from county-level to prefectural-level, according to Chinese state media Thursday.

China's State Council gave the green light for the setting up of a new prefectural-level city of Sansha (City of Three Sands) to govern the Nansha (Spratlys), Xisha (Paracels), and Zhongsha (Macclesfield bank) islands, state news agency Xinhua reported.

The city's government seat will be based on Yongxing Island in the Paracels, the Chinese Ministry of Civil Affairs said.

The move will help to improve China's "administrative management on Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and their future development," a ministry spokesperson said.

"It is also conducive to protecting the oceanic environment of the South China Sea," the spokesperson added.

The Spratly Islands comprises more than 750 reefs, islets, atolls, cays, and islands in the West Philippine Sea.

The Spratlys, the Paracels, Macclesfield bank are being claimed in whole or in part by the Philippines, Vietnam, China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Brunei.

The Philippines' Department of Foreign Affairs has yet to comment the latest development in its territorial dispute with Beijing.

China frowns at PNoy, PAF fly-by

Meanwhile, the Chinese Foreign Ministry on Thursday criticized President Benigno Aquino for his statement that Philippine Air Force planes will soon fly over Spartlys to inspect the area.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said Aquino should "stop making remarks that will influence public opinion," according to Xinhua.

Hong blamed the Philippines for allegedly causing the tension to erupt over Scarborough shoal, which Beijing calls as Huangyan Island.

"China hopes the Philippine side will do more to help the development of bilateral ties and refrain from stirring public opinion, so as to safeguard the recovery of bilateral ties," Hong said, as quoted by Xinhua.

Oh that was why China has been rushing with this new perfectural level because of Vietnams Hanoi Soveriegnty. We should do the same.

Looks like Hong Lei is referring to his own reflection on the mirror. :lol:

Bilateral ties have limitations - especially that they are encroaching in your territory.

and to the govt. please wag maging uto uto sa mga sinungaling. Just do the opposite and piss them off then show the world they are liars like what you did before. Many countries will support us. :lol::lol:

Haha, mga hangal yung mga hung hang na yan. Hindi ibig sabihin na nagpullout tayo eh, susuko na natin yan. :lol:

Arvor

June 22nd, 2012, 06:33 AM

If it's not F16, F18, I would keep an eye on Eurofighter typhoon, or even the Gripens.

I mentioned the Typhoon the other day because gmaer posted that it was proposed by Italy but those Typhoons would be too expensive in reality and would need other upgrades to make them fully "multi role" as those early models are more geared for "air superiority", i wouldn't mind the EF Typhoon if we can afford it and all the latest upgrades .

But if we wanted the most modern and advanced mrf for the cheapest price it should be the Gripen .

I would personally be ok with F16's or F18 "Super Hornets" but my preference would be the Dassault Rafale it is definetely the best "multi role" fighter out there today .

Beam Magnum

June 22nd, 2012, 07:01 AM

Gripen is not a bad idea for air defense its has advantage of cost, easy maintenance, 10 min. to refuel and rearmed. And now....there is announced of Super Gripen.

Sweden to Fund Next Generation Gripen

Radio Sweden is reporting that Sweden’s government will finance a fleet of new JAS Gripen fighter jets, despite a previous parliamentary decision not to fund the project without foreign involvement.

More from the report:

The Swedish military faces the prospect of major cutbacks to fund the JAS Gripen ‘Next Generation’ jets, also known as the ‘Super JAS’.

The air force estimates it needs about 80 new planes – at an estimated cost of around US$8 billion. Sweden’s two main political parties have agreed to buy the planes from Swedish-based Saab.
But until now that consensus was based on a condition that Sweden finds another foreign buyer to share the multi-billion dollar development costs.
Switzerland agreed last year to buy about 20 planes.

“We hope that several countries will buy Gripen. But until Switzerland or Croatia or other countries have done that Sweden will upgrade Gripen on its own,” says Staffan Danielsson, defence spokesperson Centre Party, part of the government coalition.
“There will be a proposal from the government quite soon. It’s obvious that we need a good air defense. Will the present Gripen be good enough to match aircraft from other countries such as Russia in 2030, 2040? No.”
A government working group will report in the coming months on cutbacks to the military which could help fund the air force upgrade.

http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2012/06/21/sweden-to-fund-next-generation-gripen/
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/fordon_motor/flygplan/article3496334.ece

Google translate says:

The aircraft manufacturer Saab has taken a decision to build a Super-Jas, to be used for test flights. This despite the fact that concrete orders for the plane missing at present.

- It's nailed that we begin to build a plane next year, says Lasse Jansson, press officer at Saab Aeronautics.

The Company is in full swing with preparations for the construction, he says:

- We works with to order special parts and talk to the subcontractors.

Exactly when a newly Super-Jas can roll out on the launch pad is unclear. According to Lasse Jansson is the completion relating to when the first order placed, probably from Switzerland.

- Normally the delivery time for a new Gripen about four years, but we expect to build test aircraft in less time, he says.

Swiss government said last year in favor of ordering 22 new Gripen from Sweden, but the contract has not yet been signed. If an export transaction locks in the Swedish parliament agreed that when the government can order 8-10 plane of the E / F model.

The question of the Gripen purchase is also hot topic of discussion in Switzerland. The procurement is expected to be worth around 22 billion.

Discussions are underway about the opportunities to collaborate on the design of the new Gripen model between the Swedish Defence Export Agency, FXM, and armasuisse, which is Switzerland's equivalent of the Defence Materiel Administration.

- The topics on both the execution schedule and cost, says Mats Hansson FXM who heads the Swedish negotiation team.

The completed documents will then form the basis for policy decisions in both Sweden and Switzerland, in which case they intend to order just newly manufactured planes.

According to Mats Hansson, the Swedish main alternative but to rebuild and upgrade plan from the existing fleet to the new version.

Even in the joint acquisition programs such as Sweden and Switzerland discuss include one or more test aircraft, he said. His hope is to get along with his Swiss counterpart now in the summer.

Included in the new Super-Jas

The main innovations in the Super-Jas, or Gripen E / F, include:

A more powerful engine than the current Volvo Aero RM12 engine, based on General Electric's F404 engine. The new engine from General Electric F414G units and is based on the same engine that sits in Boeing's F-18 Super Hornet.

A new multimode AESA radar, developed by Saab and French Thales.

Longer range by larger fuel tanks.

Larger weapons load and more weapon mounts.

New retractable landing gear in the wings instead of the fuselage.

Updated flight deck, including new head-down displays and enhanced avionics.

Encrypted communication with technology from the Swedish company Sectra.

Askal82

June 22nd, 2012, 07:09 AM

I mentioned the Typhoon the other day because gmaer posted that it was proposed by Italy but those Typhoons would be too expensive in reality and would need other upgrades to make them fully "multi role" as those early models are more geared for "air superiority", i wouldn't mind the EF Typhoon if we can afford it and all the latest upgrades .

But if we wanted the most modern and advanced mrf for the cheapest price it should be the Gripen .

I would personally be ok with F16's or F18 "Super Hornets" but my preference would be the Dassault Rafale it is definetely the best "multi role" fighter out there today .

Gripen is not a bad idea for air defense its has advantage of cost, easy maintenance, 10 min. to refuel and rearmed. And now....there is announced of Super Gripen.

Sweden to Fund Next Generation Gripen

Radio Sweden is reporting that Sweden’s government will finance a fleet of new JAS Gripen fighter jets, despite a previous parliamentary decision not to fund the project without foreign involvement.

More from the report:

The Swedish military faces the prospect of major cutbacks to fund the JAS Gripen ‘Next Generation’ jets, also known as the ‘Super JAS’.

The air force estimates it needs about 80 new planes – at an estimated cost of around US$8 billion. Sweden’s two main political parties have agreed to buy the planes from Swedish-based Saab.
But until now that consensus was based on a condition that Sweden finds another foreign buyer to share the multi-billion dollar development costs.
Switzerland agreed last year to buy about 20 planes.

“We hope that several countries will buy Gripen. But until Switzerland or Croatia or other countries have done that Sweden will upgrade Gripen on its own,” says Staffan Danielsson, defence spokesperson Centre Party, part of the government coalition.
“There will be a proposal from the government quite soon. It’s obvious that we need a good air defense. Will the present Gripen be good enough to match aircraft from other countries such as Russia in 2030, 2040? No.”
A government working group will report in the coming months on cutbacks to the military which could help fund the air force upgrade.

http://blogs.ottawacitizen.com/2012/06/21/sweden-to-fund-next-generation-gripen/
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/fordon_motor/flygplan/article3496334.ece

I hope the AFP also considers the Gripens as our MRF's.

ManilaBoy45

June 22nd, 2012, 07:17 AM

US Tells China and the Philippines to Settle Shoal Dispute ...

Publication Date : 22-06-2012

The United States yesteraday called on the Philippines and China to sit down and find a peaceful solution to their territorial dispute in the South China Sea.
Speaking at the US Embassy’s first news forum, called Kapihan sa Embahada, Ambassador Harry Thomas Jr. said Washington “has been very clear on our commitment to support a resolution of these claims in a peaceful manner at the negotiating table.”
But President Benigno Aquino told reporters on Wednesday that a military plane would fly to the area when the weather cleared and if Chinese vessels were still there by then, he would order the two Philippine vessels back to the shoal.
Defence Secretary Voltaire Gazmin, who recommended the redeployment of the two vessels to the shoal, told reporters yesterday that heavy rains and strong winds kept the government from sending a plane to the area.
Gazmin said the government still had to decide which service, whether the Navy or the Coast Guard, would send the reconnaissance plane.Definitely, however, the Philippines will go back to Scarborough Shoal to maintain effective control in the area.

http://www.asianewsnet.net/home/news.php?id=32257&sec=1

expatdingdong

June 22nd, 2012, 07:17 AM

Sorry you probably did not read or understood this part it won open competitions against the T50 in both Israeli air force and Singapore air force evaluations while the T50 has yet to win an international competition based on real merits not propaganda !, like ive said you don't know what your talking about .

Lol any modern aircraft can run rings around old mig 21's and the rest of North Korea's antiquated air force ... .

The South Koreans HAD TO BUY IT it wasn't a choice as it was part of a government owned corporation as a project to create some sort of South Korean aerospace sector, if this aircraft was that good they would replace their entire F5 fleet with it this is nothing but a pet industrial and jobs project for the S.Koreans .

It would look surprisingly bad if the government that funded the product does not at least make token purchases ... .

is there a combat version of the m346? Korea and Indonesia bought it right - what choice did the Indonesians have no choice? I'd love to see test flights of a combat ready version of the m346 firing asm and aa missiles... you have any links for demonstration of the combat version of the m346........also you have no issue with the m346 being a bit slower and a lower ceiling?? did you ask a fighter pilot with training if he's ok to give up the extra speed and extra ceiling the FA-50 can provide?? If you are a fighter pilot then I'll believe whatever you are saying

Manila-X

June 22nd, 2012, 07:27 AM

I'm for The Gripen due to it's cost and performance. But I like lightweight MRFs that packs a punch.

I do hope The PAF considers this plane just like how the Thais considered it for their RTAF.

Arvor

June 22nd, 2012, 07:34 AM

Korea and Indonesia bought it right - what choice did the Indonesians have no choice?

The Indonesians are sucking up to S.Korea because they too are trying to create a local aerospace industry and is hoping to become an industrial partner in other projects with S.Korea, so their choices were limited since they could neither afford nor have the capability of designing a fighter themselves so just like S.Korea their reasons are not based on logic but rather on a desire to create an industry, this deal being a slightly less than equal quid pro for Indonesia .

I'd love to see test flights of a combat ready version of the m346 firing asm and aa missiles... you have any links for demonstration of the combat version of the m346

Lol it wouldn't be a lift aircraft would it ?, in fact the M346/Yak130 even has more hard points ( 9 ) than the T50 ( 7 ), and the Israeli air force of all people would not buy an aircraft that it couldn't modify with their own weapon systems if needed... .

http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/346-armed.jpg

http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/346-armed-2.jpg
http://cencio4.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/346-armed.jpg

an M-346 advanced combat trainer flying with a BRD (Bombs and Rocket Dispencer

Such pod, used by several aircraft types, is used to carry BDU-33 or Mk-106 practice bombs. The BDU-33 are used to “clone” the same launch characteristics of the 500-lb MK-82. Each BDU-33 weighs 25 pounds, has a teardrop shaped metal body with a tube cavity lengthwise through the center, a conical after body, and a cruciform type fin in the aft end of the bomb body. A firing pin, inertia tube, and striker plate are separate components of th e bomb. A receptacle is located forward of the center of gravity to install a single suspension lug if required.

The Mk-106s is a 5-pound thin-cased cylindrical bomb used to simulate the high-drag (retarded) Mk-82 Snakeye bombs. It is composed by a bomb body, a retractable suspension lug, a firing device, and box-type conical fins.

Since the picture shows the “Master” returing to the deployment base from a range sortie without any practice bomb, it is impossible to say which type of weapon delivery was being tested with the new plane. Nevertheless, the image is interesting since it proves that the combat trainer, selected by the Israeli Air Force, by the Republic of Singapore Air Force as well as the Italian Air Force, is currently involved in its first live firing tests.

Armed weapons testing for the M346 there you go but youd have to wait for the video as it hasn't been released yet filmed by those cameras encircled in red, in the meantime it's Russian twin can provide you with an an idea of it's weapons load ( below ) ... .

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2432/3993973670_3d67d26515_z.jpg?zz=1
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2432/3993973670_3d67d26515_z.jpg?zz=1

6utHkjOO8S0&feature

........also you have no issue with the m346 being a bit slower and a lower ceiling?? did you ask a fighter pilot with training if he's ok to give up the extra speed and extra ceiling the FA-50 can provide?? If you are a fighter pilot then I'll believe whatever you are saying

No as ive pointed out those two advantages are pointless :

400 km/hour faster what for ?, these aircrafts are ill suited for facing Chinese fighters i don't see the usefullness of rushing to one's death ? or maybe you are thinking that it can run away faster but then again Flankers and AA missiles are both faster than the T50 ... .

The M346 despite being slightly slower can still reach most of the country whitin more or less the same timeframe as the T50 give or take a few minutes difference .

And the reason for the M346's lower speed is it's design which makes it more controllable in extreme angles making it a better ground attack aircraft which is really what these types of aircrafts main comnbat role are supposed to be, the M346 engines also have better fuel economy giving it slightly more range than the T50 .

Flying higher again what for ?, our rebels the primary target for the aircraft in it's military role are on the "ground" not in the sky .

Up to you lol to tell us why it's somehow important coz i can't see the logic sorry ... .

confirming that the Finmeccanica subsidiary could design and manufacture advanced aircraft with full authority quadriplex fly-by-wire controls. Those controls, the aircraft’s design for vortex lift aerodynamics, and a thrust:weight ratio of nearly 1:1, allow it to remain fully controllable even at angles of attack over 35 degrees. This is useful for simulating the capabilities of advanced 4+ generation fighters like the F/A-18 Super Hornet, Eurofighter, and Rafale. Not to mention Sukhoi’s SU-30 family, which has made a name for itself at international air shows with remarkable nose-high maneuvers.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Finmeccanicas-M346-Whos-the-Master-Now-06593/

Manila-X

June 22nd, 2012, 07:42 AM

The NG Gripen is still lightweight right?

But definitely this is going to be more expensive compared to earlier versions of The Gripen so if PAF ever purchase this craft, we might end up with the early ones.

Askal82

June 22nd, 2012, 07:45 AM

I'm for The Gripen due to it's cost and performance. But I like lightweight MRFs.

I do hope The PAF considers this plane just like how the Thais considered it for their RTAF.

The Gripens are low cost advanced MRF's emphasizing more on defense and it's the main reason why it doesn't carry as much weapons as the F16's - which is actually perfect for Philippines setting since we are not meant to project air and naval power beyond our territory anyway.

In addition, they don't need long runways to land and take off. :banana::banana:

I hope the PAF seriously considers this.

Manila-X

June 22nd, 2012, 07:47 AM

We need someone to convince The DND for the procurement of these planes. Also those in The Timawa Forums.

Askal82

June 22nd, 2012, 08:03 AM

We need someone to convince The DND for the procurement of these planes. Also those in The Timawa Forums.

This is also an interesting forum (http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-1029-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-30.html) too for comparison between F16's and JAS Gripen.

expatdingdong

June 22nd, 2012, 08:37 AM

The Indonesians are sucking up to S.Korea because they too are trying to create a local aerospace industry and is hoping to become an industrial partner in other projects with S.Korea, so their choices were limited since they could neither afford nor have the capability of designing a fighter themselves so just like S.Korea their reasons are not based on logic but rather on a desire to create an industry, this deal being a slightly less than equal quid pro for Indonesia .

Lol it wouldn't be a lift aircraft would it ?, in fact the M346/Yak130 even has more hard points ( 9 ) than the T50 ( 7 ), and the Israeli air force of all people would not buy an aircraft that it couldn't modify with their own weapon systems if needed... .

Armed weapons testing for the M346 there you go but youd have to wait for the video as it hasn't been released yet filmed by those cameras encircled in red, in the meantime it's Russian twin can provide you with an an idea of it's weapons load ( below ) ... .

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2432/3993973670_3d67d26515_z.jpg?zz=1
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2432/3993973670_3d67d26515_z.jpg?zz=1

6utHkjOO8S0&feature

No as ive pointed out those two advantages are pointless :

400 km/hour faster what for ?, these aircrafts are ill suited for facing Chinese fighters i don't see the usefullness of rushing to one's death ? or maybe you are thinking that it can run away faster but then again Flankers and AA missiles are both faster than the T50 ... .

The M346 despite being slightly slower can still reach most of the country whitin more or less the same timeframe as the T50 give or take a few minutes difference .

And the reason for the M346's lower speed is it's design which makes it more controllable in extreme angles making it a better ground attack aircraft which is really what these types of aircrafts main comnbat role are supposed to be, the M346 engines also have better fuel economy giving it slightly more range than the T50 .

Flying higher again what for ?, our rebels the primary target for the aircraft in it's military role are on the "ground" not in the sky .

Up to you lol to tell us why it's somehow important coz i can't see the logic sorry ... .

The report says philippines will buy the fa50 not ta50. This is the tested combat version. Airforce plans to buy super tocanos what is ur point on ground attack? Light fighter capability means it can fight at least... Fighter planes need speed and ceiling so why settle for the slower and lower plane??? Alenia and boeing made the trianer deal with israel italy and singapore commercial attractive but not "combat" competitive from performance standpoint...

Last, I guess the dnd and afp people are stupid if they buy the fa50 according to you right???

Manila-X

June 22nd, 2012, 08:45 AM

Arvor

June 22nd, 2012, 08:52 AM

"combat" competitive from performance standpoint...

I told you why those extra capabilities are unnecessary and you have failed to say why they should matter, so i ask again speed and ceiling for what purpose and what will it fight ?, speed and ceiling for "joyriding" is not a valid argument .

Non of the KAI FA50 models are capable of standing toe to toe against Chinese Flankers so again pointless .

The M346 is more "combat" competitive against the type of enemy these aircrafts are meant for namely enemies on the ground and light duties in the air, when it comes to fighting and defending the airspace id like to have something more substantial than an FA50 so thank you but no thanks i would prefer something that at least stand a decent chance of success like Gripens or Super Hornets, EF Typhoons etc for that role .

And of course the M346 is a superior trainer aircraft which is after all it's primary role .

----

http://img.alibaba.com/wsphoto/v0/507143317_1/4CH-Channel-Big-1030CM-RC-F16-Fighter-Airplane-Model-Plane-Aircraft-Remote-Control-Toy-With-Gyroscope.jpg
http://img.alibaba.com/wsphoto/v0/507143317_1/4CH-Channel-Big-1030CM-RC-F16-Fighter-Airplane-Model-Plane-Aircraft-Remote-Control-Toy-With-Gyroscope.jpg

They are already trying to pass the FA50 off as the countries main MRF, "we can't have real F16's so we will get miniature toy versions ..." lol .

expatdingdong

June 22nd, 2012, 09:01 AM

arvor - here is my basic argumentation why the FA-50 (not the TA-50) is the best deal for the Philippines

a) FA-50 flies faster and higher than m346. In dogfight situations, any additional speed or ceiling a fighter pilot will take it.... dogfight doctrine and strategy are determined by aircraft speed, ceiling, capability, bvr, etc. etc. etc..... If fa-50 and m346 cost the same, why buy the one with lesser capability????? For basic understanding watch the history channels air combat......... It is a different argument that you are going up against a far superior enemy with stealth technology, BVR capability and superior jets... that is a different argument versus fa50 versus m346......

What if the MILF can buy an FA50??? You would still buy the M346??? If you focus on what the 2 aircraft can do, solely on performance, the FA-50 is a better buy. The Koreans just not offering same commercial trade gov't to gov't as what Italy is doing for the M346.

If I believe the press reports, Korea will replace all their backup aircraft of f4, f5 and light attack with these fa-50 planes.... numbering 160 units.... Indonesia will replace the hawk.... Seems pretty capable fighter attack aircraft to me.

Philippines plans to buy super tocano or equivalent for COIN.. although for bombing runs it would be good practice to use the fa50s on them :)

Anyway - the true fighter pilots and weapon specialist in the DND and AFP know what they are doing..... unless corruption comes into play

expatdingdong

June 22nd, 2012, 09:02 AM

I told you why those extra capabilities are unnecessary and you have failed to say why they should matter, so i ask again speed and ceiling for what purpose and what will it fight ?, speed and ceiling for "joyriding" is not a valid argument .

Non of the KAI FA50 models are capable of standing toe to toe against Chinese Flankers so again pointless, pointless, pointless and more pointlessness .

The M346 is more "combat" competitive against the type of enemy these aircrafts are meant for namely enemies on the ground and light duties in the air which is what lift are meant for, when it comes to fighting and defending the airspace id like to have something more substantial than an FA50 so thank you but no thanks i would prefer something that at least stand a decent chance of success like Gripens or Super Hornets, EF Typhoons etc for that role .

And of course the M346 is a superior trainer aircraft which is after all it's primary role .

----

They are already trying to pass the FA50 off as the countries main MRF "we can't have real F16's so we will get miniature versions ..." .

you are confusing
a) Going up against a superior enemy (Toyota Camry against a Ferrari 550GT)
b) Performance basis what is better multipurpose trainer/light attack/ some level of air defense between FA-50 versus M346.... (Toyota Camry versus BMW 330i twin scroll turbo).... I'd get the bmw hands down

Extra speed and Extra ceiling will also define doctrine of where to deploy the aircraft, how to deploy, how to intercept, etc. etc. etc. etc. You don't buy aircraft just because it can turn better or have 9 pylons versus 7 pylons..... doctrine also determines what you buy

Manila-X

June 22nd, 2012, 09:15 AM

expatdingdong

June 22nd, 2012, 09:18 AM

Heard in DZBB this morning that those in DND will vow that any procurement of future aircraft / vehicles will not be tainted with corruption.

Anyway, like I said earlier, I'm in favor if DND purchase The T-50 / FA-50 but it should not be our main MRF and should also purchase some air superiority fighters as well.

fully agree.... we buy the fa-50 LIFT... but buy the combat version.... then bring in another squadron of gripen..... then we'd have similar doctrine as korea.... main fighter line f16 and f15s.... backup fa-50....... i did not say we settle for these toy fa50's anyway... but it is a good use of money coming from 0 fighters. what air combat doctrine the country is adapting.... we don't know, we're not defense experts and weapon specialists anyway

Arvor

June 22nd, 2012, 09:21 AM

a) FA-50 flies faster and higher than m346. In dogfight situations, any additional speed or ceiling a fighter pilot will take it.... dogfight doctrine and strategy are determined by aircraft speed, ceiling, capability, bvr, etc. etc. etc.....

These aircrafts will never be in any dogfight definetely not with each other and at least non of their own choosing and certainly not conciously enter into one as ive pointed out the FA50 is slower than the aircrafts and missiles it will likely face, when it comes to BVR both of these aircrafts would die instantly as they don't have the sophisticated radars and sensors and other capabilities of those larger fighters .

If fa-50 and m346 cost the same, why buy the one with lesser capability????? ......

They don't cost the same the M346 is cheaper and it also has cheaper running costs and it has the more advanced capabilities for training purposes .

For basic understanding watch the history channels air combat......... It is a different argument that you are going up against a far superior enemy with stealth technology, BVR capability and superior jets... that is a different argument versus fa50 versus m346

That is the whole point if you take away the FA50's only advantage over the M346 which is speed and maximum ceiling the M346 is the better aircraft for all the roles a lift aircraft is meant for, while the advantages you mention are useless anyway as they are useless against superior Chinese aircraft which they will likely encounter in such a scenario .

In other words the M346 is the best option given :

1 ) Long historical links between the Phillippine military and it's longtime supplyer of trainers Alenia .

2 ) The M346 is better suited for the type of combat these aircraft are meant for + it's got more hard points .

3 ) Cheaper unit cost and cheaper running costs .

4 ) Superior training capability due to it's design and ability to mimic the flight characteristics of any modern MRF's a capability which will come in handy given that the government has yet to decide the exact model for it's MRF .

----

then bring in another squadron of gripen

Like ive said pointless as there is no logic in acquiring the FA50 or any other of it's models, equipment has to have a well defined purpose .

expatdingdong

June 22nd, 2012, 09:26 AM

These aircrafts will never be in any dogfight at least non of their own choosing and certainly not conciously enter into one as ive pointed out the FA50 is slower than the aircrafts and missiles it will likely face, when it comes to BVR both of these aircrafts would die instantly as they don't have the sophisticated radars and sensors and other capabilities of those larger fighters .

They don't cost the same the M346 is cheaper and it also has cheaper running costs and it has the more advanced capabilities for training purposes .

That is the whole point if you take away the FA50's only advantage over the M346 which is speed and maximum ceiling the M346 is the better aircraft for all the roles a lift aircraft is meant for, while the advantages you mention are useless anyway as they are useless against superior Chinese aircraft which they will likely encounter in such a scenario .

In other words the M346 is the best option given :

1 ) Long historical links between the Phillippine military and it's longtime supplyer of trainers Alenia .

2 ) The M346 is better suited for the type of combat these aircraft are meant for + it's got more hard points .

3 ) Cheaper unit cost and cheaper running costs .

4 ) Superior training capability due to it's design and ability to mimic the flight characteristics of any modern MRF's a capability which will come in handy given that the government has yet to decide the exact model for it's MRF .

----

Like ive said pointless ... .

you can't get LIFT on FA-50s for Gripens????? so what is your design - buy m346 and then go all out try to get f15/typhoon or a long shot buy f35 or buy the next generation fighter of Korea :)

for a normal family, you'll buy an innova.... its a car, pickup, bus, people mover.... Same logic as lets buy the fa-50 it can function to some degree as a trainer, light attack, LIFT (doctrine will also maximize the capability of the aircraft), some credible air defense (as claimed by KAI) blah blah blah

for a rich family, you'll buy a sedan, a pickup, a van and SUV........Lets buy the m346 LIFT and then buy F16s, F15s etc. just like the rich countries of Italy, Israel and SIngapore.... Singapore yeah lets buy m346 for training.... we got f16 and f15s to attack malaysia anyway... right?

at this moment, Philippines is a normal family... we can't buy all different types of aircraft so i am assuming the designers of our "credible air defense" posture will go with FA-50

Manila-X

June 22nd, 2012, 09:32 AM

you can't get LIFT on FA-50s for Gripens????? so what is your design - buy m346 and then go all out try to get f15/typhoon or a long shot buy f35 or buy the next generation fighter of Korea :)

F-15? You mean F-16 :)

Arvor

June 22nd, 2012, 09:34 AM

There is a need for all types of aircraft each with it's own specific purpose .

----

Im not a fan of the F35 it's a useless aircraft which main purpose is to do bombing runs after other aircraft has made the sky safe for them, the F35 was also initially a US industrial plan to sabotage their European competitors who were coming up with all these new planes while all the US has left were these old legacy designs .

They started off trying to design a successor to the F16 a small cheap easy to maintain and affordable multirole aircraft instead they ended up with the most expensive ground attack/bomber ever .

expatdingdong

June 22nd, 2012, 09:39 AM

F-15? You mean F-16 :)

right i was thinking euro typhoon and f16:lol:

Manila-X

June 22nd, 2012, 09:52 AM

Manila-X

June 22nd, 2012, 09:57 AM

right i was thinking euro typhoon and f16:lol:

For real, is our DND really serious of acquiring real MRFs? Or are we going to stick on the FA-50 for some time?

expatdingdong

June 22nd, 2012, 10:08 AM

For real, is our DND really serious of acquiring real MRFs? Or are we going to stick on the FA-50 for some time?

what i've learned current purchase is really for LIFT purposes... airforce knows the FA-50 is not a true fighter or next gen competitive, they will buy it for LIFT but because we also need some form of "credible defense" posture - this is what accelerated the purchase and debate between m346 and fa50. we can all argue fa50 would die instantly against superior china planes but that does not take into account doctrine, strategy and plans on when and how to use these planes anyway.

President Aquino almost bought the old block f16s offered by US if you would believe, (mainly for superior defense posture but not consistent with the masterplan of having LIFT)

I honestly believe there is a masterplan to the airforce modernization but scenarios change and they have to adapt. Airforce also knows what doctrine they want to use in aquiring air assets so there is some long range guide as to what they want to buy anyway

Mr Grey

June 22nd, 2012, 10:28 AM

PH sends planes to scan Scarborough
ABS-CBNnews.com
Posted at 06/22/2012 4:05 PM | Updated as of 06/22/2012 4:05 PM

MANILA, Philippines – The military on Friday said it has deployed planes to conduct a reconnaissance mission over the disputed Scarborough Shoal.

"We are doing that…We are flying over there, that's ours," Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin confirmed Friday.

An Air Force official said Philippine planes are taking pictures of the shoal amid reports that Chinese vessels have not left the area.

President Aquino earlier said the government is ready to redeploy ships at the shoal to counter the possible presence of foreign vessels.

China has claimed ownership of Scarborough Shoal, which is within the 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone of the Philippines. The shoal is about 750 miles from China’s nearest point in Hainan.

Come on guys send the ships already I dont think you need to do ocular inspection anymore since this chinese bastards are hard headed. Even the word Bilateral means working on there ways. Which is pretty far of its meaning

Arvor

June 22nd, 2012, 11:08 AM

If that is the case of The F-35, then The F-22 is the true latest MRF of The USAF.

Well yes but not as much the mrf part, the F22 like the EF Typhoon is primarily an air superiority fighter but has some ground attack capability unlike the Rafale for example which was truelly multi role from the start .

It is the F22's job to kick down the door so to speak of an enemy countries air defences by dominating the skies the JSF's job is then to come in and do the bombing part .

Some countries like Canada and Australia for example might buy JSF's but if they do join in a war it will be in a coalition led by the US so their role will be to take part in the bombing missions while the initial door kicking would be done by the US in any event .

-SNPKLSDMBLDR-

June 22nd, 2012, 11:39 AM

The media should be responsible in their part when reporting and leaking information.

ABS-CBN has reported for The PAF purchasing 12 T-50s and receiving them next year. Then various Korean news sites followed.

Now we have the DND reporting that the agreement has not been signed yet.

But I do hope The DND is doing the right move in procuring the best arms and equipment, and best at the price that our country can afford.

I don't think the media "leaked" this, more like both of them (ABS-CBN & PAF) wants this info out to the public. just yesterday morning someone from the PAF and DFA went to ANC to give interviews about the still unofficial TA-50 acquisition.

d7beast

June 22nd, 2012, 01:12 PM

Again, it is not the content of your post I am referring to, but your delivery. It's kind of childish and quarrelsome. You are easily angry when one disagrees with you.

You might need to reasses how you delivery your opinion.

you cannot set people at your own liking,..it will never be the way you like it, try to examine all your posts it appeared good to you but not to all also, learn how to accept someone's style,..:ohno:

d7beast

June 22nd, 2012, 01:18 PM

What the heck these russians are doing!!!:bash::bash::bash:

The tu22 "Backfire" in global terms is not really that advanced anymore since it was designed in the 60's so it's ancient technology by now and it is the newer and larger TU160 "Blackjack" that has the global range of course the Backfire can still pose a threat to the Phillippines and other Chinese neighbours .[/QUOTE]

TheAvenger

June 22nd, 2012, 01:24 PM

it's not even an island to begin with but a submerged rock :lol::lol::lol::lol:

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Jewel865/scarboroughtozambales.jpg

YES NOT EVEN AN ISLAND ..........

but later this Aggressive slit-eyed Dragon which is the new imperialist in Asia - PRC China will make Panatag Shoal / Scarborough Shoal a naval/military fortress.

Complete with long range RADARS that can monitor the whole western Luzon and with short range missiles that can reach any part of Luzon.

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Jewel865/panatagfortress.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Jewel865/bajodemasinloc-USCGSchart.jpg

firebar10

June 22nd, 2012, 01:27 PM

The Tu-22M3's ability to fire ALCM against both land and sea targets makes it a formidable threat in spite of what technological era it came from. True or not, this purported sale of production line of the Tu-22M3 to the Chinese should be a cause of alarm for our defense establishment and now the need for an air superiority/air defense fighter has exponentially increased.

915bungohunter

June 22nd, 2012, 01:36 PM

di nagkakalayo ang dalawang to..
Home along da riles with PAF Huey Chopper at Nichols area
Photos by Arvin Danganan
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=480505685308666&set=a.457091847650050.121487.100000477167935&type=1&theater
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/533421_480505685308666_2044434755_n.jpg

d7beast

June 22nd, 2012, 01:50 PM

d7beast

June 22nd, 2012, 01:53 PM

TheAvenger

June 22nd, 2012, 02:00 PM

d7beast

June 22nd, 2012, 02:17 PM

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Jewel865/panatagfortress.jpg

Peoples Republic of China - PLA Navy Fortress - Huangyan Island ex Panatag Shoal

( Taken by China while Pinoy is sleeping - natutulog sa pansitan )

ito rin kinatatakutan ko, at di lang yang panatag ang huli tuloy-tuloy na yan pag d tayo umaksyon ngayun,..:bash::bash::bash:let's serious in buying stuff not kiddie stuff trainer things!!! We need advance fighter bombers, mobile AAM and ASM, fast attack crafts, or bat pa mag-paligoy-ligoy pa, kahit 2 attack subs,..pwede bang pumitas ng kahit 5BUSD sa dollar reserves natin ha sa mga economist natin ano say nyo???

hanabi59

June 22nd, 2012, 03:03 PM

pwede bang pumitas ng kahit 5BUSD sa dollar reserves natin ha sa mga economist natin ano say nyo???

Hindi basta-basta pwede galawin ang foreign exchange reserves. Itong reserves na ito ang sasalo kung sakaling may unexpected scenarios na mangyayari gaya ng biglang pagtaas ng import commodity prices lalo na ang oil. O kaya naman kung bagsak ang demand sa economy at kailangan ng stimulation dun lang irerelease ang reserves.

juniordiscovery

June 22nd, 2012, 03:33 PM

Defense wants Air Force that isn’t ‘all air and devoid of force’ in 5 years

MANILA, Philippines – In the next few years, the Philippine Air Force will no longer be “all air and devoid of force” as the Department of National Defense is working “speedily” for the approval of 138 contracts that will upgrade and modernize the Armed Forces of the Philippines, said Secretary Voltaire Gazmin Friday.

“The placement of these assets in our Air Force inventory shall surely boost its air operations capability. The availability of these aircraft shall, once and for all, erase the ironic and naughty commentary that our present Air Force is “all air and devoid of force,” Gazmin said in his speech at the Air Power Symposium at SMX Convention Center in Pasay City.

http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/h/newsinfo.inquirer.net/files/2012/06/300x200xair-force-300x200.jpg.pagespeed.ic.yADYH8DT6D.jpg
http://www.paf.mil.ph photo

source: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/217077/defense-wants-air-force-that-isn%E2%80%99t-%E2%80%98all-air-and-devoid-of-force%E2%80%99-in-5-years

panganuron23

June 22nd, 2012, 06:12 PM

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Jewel865/panatagfortress.jpg

Peoples Republic of China - PLA Navy Fortress - Huangyan Island ex Panatag Shoal

( Taken by China while Pinoy is sleeping - natutulog sa pansitan )

holy molly, grabe na ang pang bubully ng mga tugalsik na yan sa Pilipinas. hey mr. yellow president sabi mo kami ang boss mo..then inuutusan kitang palayasin yang mga intsik na yan sa scarborough shoal, as in now na!. that's an order from your boss:nuts:

Arvor

June 22nd, 2012, 06:18 PM

Btw the Norwegian navy is looking to retire their diesel-electric Ula class submarines by 2020 and buy new models .

I think it could be good for the PN to reserve one or two of them ( there are 6 total in class ) for use as a training ship and test submarines by 2020 or perhaps earlier, it might need some slight modifications like airco's for the warmer climate or something .

Once we have submarines it would seriously alter the balance of power vis a vis China especially in the waters around Scarborough shoals and the whole west Phillippine sea as these submarines can prevent the Chinese navy from getting to the Spratleys .

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/ula_class_3.jpg

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/ula_class_4.jpg
http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/ula_class_4.jpg

The Ula class is a Norwegian submarine type which was assembled in Germany in the late 1980s and early 1990s. The class, consisting of 6 vessels, is currently the only submarine type in service with the Royal Norwegian Navy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ula_class_submarine

d7beast

June 22nd, 2012, 06:36 PM

^^ if they will retire it by 2020 it's too late for us by that time it has no use to us because we cannot anymore cross 20km away from our shores in the WPS as the commies tightened its grip in our own territories taking advantage of our showing weakness in projecting our military capability to defend the areas inside our country's EEZ at the WPS, we need to spend big time now or it's gonna be too late and time is precious that we don't have,..i also noticed the ambassador's messages does not jive with what clinton and panetta assurances of support in building up our defences, bad sign:ohno:

China tightening grip on Spratlys
By Pia Lee-Brago (The Philippine Star) Updated June 23, 2012 12:00 AM Comments (0)

A contributed photo shows the Coast Guard’s BRP Corregidor (left) and a Bureau of Fisheries vessel on stand by at an undisclosed location for redeployment to Panatag Shoal.
| Zoom

MANILA, Philippines - China has set up a new “prefecture level” city called Sansha to administer three disputed islands in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), according to Chinese state-owned Xinhua news agency.

The development has tightened China’s grip on islands that it calls its own in the West Philippine Sea, particularly the Spratlys.

On Thursday, Xinhua reported that Xisha (Paracels), Zhongsha (Macclesfield bank), and Nansha (Spratlys) islands have been collectively elevated to prefecture status under Sansha city from their previous county-level status.

Sansha means “city of three sands” in Chinese.

A statement from the Ministry of Civil Affairs said the State Council or China’s Cabinet has approved the establishment of Sansha, with its seat of government on Yongxing Island, which is part of the Paracels.

The county-level “administration office” for the three islands was also based on Yongxing Island.

A spokesperson for China’s Ministry of Civil Affairs said the creation of Sansha city would help improve China’s “administrative management on Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha islands and their future development.”

“It is also conducive to protecting the oceanic environment of the South China Sea,” the spokesman said.

He claimed that China set up the administration office for the three islands in 1959.

He also maintained that it was China which first discovered and named the reefs and islets around Xisha, Zhongsha and Nansha Islands.

The Department of Foreign Affairs said it had no detailed information on China’s latest declaration.

“We don’t have yet the details of this report,” DFA spokesman Raul Hernandez said.

Also on Thursday, China’s foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei urged Philippine officials to refrain from making remarks meant to influence public opinion on the month-old standoff at Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal.

Hong issued the statement at a press briefing in Beijing when asked to comment on President Aquino’s announcement that Philippine Air Force planes would fly over Panatag Shoal to check on the situation in the area.

Hong asserted it was the Philippine warships’ “harassment” of Chinese fishermen in early April that triggered the Panatag Shoal incident.

He said the Philippines’ tough and high profile stance on the issue had only heightened tensions.

But he said tensions have eased and that the two sides have been vigorously exerting efforts to repair bilateral relations.

“China hopes the Philippine side will do more to help the development of bilateral ties and refrain from stirring public opinion, so as to safeguard the recovery of bilateral ties,” Hong said.

Thankful

The DFA also said the Philippines greatly appreciates the United States’ reaffirming of its support for the country in its territorial dispute with China, as relayed by Ambassador Harry Thomas Jr.

“What US Ambassador Harry Thomas Jr. said on Thursday was a reiteration of the US position on the territorial dispute and support for the Philippines to seek resolution,” Hernandez said.

The US has been pressing China, the Philippines and other countries with territorial claims in the West Philippine Sea to resolve their dispute through diplomacy, particularly in accordance with international law, including the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS).

At the 2+2 meeting in May in Washington, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had expressed deep concern over developments in the West Philippine Sea and urged China to clarify its motivation and interest in the region.

Hernandez said that Clinton’s message was for nations involved to “subscribe to a rules-based approach in resolving competing claims in maritime areas through peaceful, collaborative, multilateral and diplomatic processes within the framework of international law, reflected in the UNCLOS.”

“This is the same position that the Philippines has repeatedly conveyed to China,” Hernandez said.

Unmindful of China

As China appears to be tightening its grip on territories being claimed by its smaller neighbors, the mayor of Kalayaan town in the Spratlys said he and his constituents would never give up asserting Philippines sovereignty.

Mayor Eugenio Bito-onon, in a telephone interview, said that while China cannot be prevented from doing “crazy things,” they would never recognize its latest effort to strengthen its “administrative control” over the Spratlys.

“We do not recognize that. We are a regime of islands under the Philippine government,” Bito-onon, said, stressing that Kalayaaan town has been in existence for 34 years. He said his municipality celebrated its founding anniversary last June 11.

He also said the seat of the so-called Sansha city on Yongxing Island or Woody Island in the Paracels – a Chinese island garrison – is 364 nautical miles from Kalayaan island town.

“It’s very far from Pag-Asa. It’s not going to affect us,” he said.

Aside from China and the Philippines, Vietnam, Taiwan, Brunei and Malaysia have territorial claims in the area.

All Spratlys claimant countries have troops in the region except for Brunei. Jaime Laude

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=820070&publicationSubCategoryId=63

Nabartek

June 22nd, 2012, 11:29 PM

Nabartek

June 22nd, 2012, 11:35 PM

you cannot set people at your own liking,..it will never be the way you like it, try to examine all your posts it appeared good to you but not to all also, learn how to accept someone's style,..:ohno:

I am not setting it to my own liking. I merely am reminding you to be mindful of others. This is a public forum, hence the need to compromise. You can't just say my style here. Besides, avoid personal attacks on other forumers here like "nagiimagine ka" just because one disagrees with you. Other forumers here have already toned down calling others a commie since bakasaurus post. I hope you so the same to avoid clashes using personal attacks.

3cr

June 22nd, 2012, 11:55 PM

Philippines should follow what Vietnam just did. We should do the same for the shoals...

Vietnam slams China protest over Spratlys
Manila Times
http://www.manilatimes.net/index.php/news/top-stories/25395-vietnam-slams-china-protest-over-spratlys

HANOI: Vietnam has defended a new maritime law claiming sovereignty over the fiercely-contested Paracel and Spratly islands, dismissing protests from China as “absurd.”

Vietnam’s National Assembly on Thursday adopted the Law on the Sea, which places the disputed mineral-rich islands under Hanoi’s sovereignty, prompting Beijing to summon the Vietnamese ambassador to oppose the “illegal and invalid” move.

China and Vietnam, as well as other neighboring nations, are locked in long-standing territorial disputes over the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), including the Spratlys and Paracels.

“Vietnam resolutely rejects the absurd accusations by the Chinese side,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Luong Thanh Nghi said in a statement posted on the ministry’s website on Thursday night.

The new law—the first adopted by Hanoi covering the West Philippine Sea—is “normal law-making activity,” he said, adding that Vietnam had “indisputable legal basis and historical evidence of its sovereignty over the islands.”

“More seriously, Vietnam strongly opposes China’s establishment of the so-called ‘Sansha City,’” Nghi said.

China said on Thursday that it had elevated the administrative status of the Nansha (Spratly) and Xisha (Paracel) islands from a county to a prefectural-level district under the control of the city of Sansha.

The official Thanh Nien newspaper reported on Friday that the law was adopted by 495 out of 496 deputies and will come into force in January 2013.

China and South Vietnam once administered different parts of the Paracels, but after a brief conflict in 1974 Beijing took control of the entire group of islands.

Vietnam holds several of the larger Spratly Islands and neighboring countries have long been locked in diplomatic rows over their conflicting claims.

China says that it has sovereign rights to the West Philippine Sea, believed to sit atop vast oil and gas deposits, including areas close to the coastlines of other countries and hundreds of kilometers from its own land mass.

The disputed region is a key trading route for the United States, which has opposed Beijing’s attempts to settle conflicting claims bilaterally, repeatedly calling instead for the peaceful resolution of disputes.

Taiwan, Vietnam, Brunei, China, Malaysia, and the Philippines all claim parts of the West Philippine Sea.

3cr

June 23rd, 2012, 12:02 AM

China to PH: Don’t fan shoal fire
Manila Times
http://www.manilatimes.net/index.php/news/top-stories/25394-china-to-ph-dont-fan-panatag-fire

A CHINESE official has urged the Philippines to stop “influencing” public opinion regarding its ongoing dispute with Beijing over the Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal.

According to Foreign Affairs spokesman Hong Lei, Manila’s “tough, high-profile stance on the issue continues to heighten tensions.”

“China hopes that the Philippine side will do more to help the development of bilateral ties and refrain from stirring public opinion, so as to safeguard the recovery of bilateral ties,” Hong said in a report posted on the Chinese government’s web portal.

He reportedly made the remarks during a regular press briefing.

Hong also said that President Benigno Aquino 3rd’s intention to send Philippine Air Force planes to the shoal does not help ease tensions.

President Aquino expressed that intention after China refused to pull out its government vessels from the area, contrary to Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario’s recent announcement that Beijing had committed to withdraw them.

The Philippines recently pulled out its vessels from the shoal because of bad weather caused by Typhoon Butchoy (international name: Guchol), but is mulling to send them back if Chinese ships remain in the area.

Hong said that the Philippines’ “harassment” of Chinese fishermen in early April “single-handedly” caused the standoff.

Manila, however, claimed that the standoff began when two Chinese surveillance ships prevented Philippine officials from seizing Chinese fishing vessels illegally collecting marine species from the area.

Both countries have claims to the shoal, which Manila also calls Bajo de Masinloc and which Beijing refers to as Huangyan Island.

The Philippines says that Panatag is well within the country’s 200-nautical miles Exclusive Economic Zone and Continental Shelf as provided for by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.

China disputes this, saying that the shoal lies within its nine-dash line, which covers virtually 90 percent of the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea).

Manila and Beijing also have another territorial row over the purportedly resource-rich Spratly Group of Islands, which lie near Palawan province.

Askal82

June 23rd, 2012, 01:06 AM

Maybe, Vietnam and the Philiipines can file jointly on the ITLOS? It may not be the ultimate solution but it at least gives bad rap to China.
The problem with China it often accuses its neighbors on acting unilaterally
In their own backyard and china complains while china unilaterally puts infras in its neighbors territory.

That is plain arrogance that is parallel to European colonization in the 16th century

Because China can't assert for s4it so they go to weaker countries. They can't even get Taiwan. :lol:

M46Fr3D

June 23rd, 2012, 01:19 AM

Come on guys send the ships already I dont think you need to do ocular inspection anymore since this chinese bastards are hard headed. Even the word Bilateral means working on there ways. Which is pretty far of its meaning

Bilateral to these idiots are indeed two ways. But the stupid thing is they want to take both ways.:bash:

Askal82

June 23rd, 2012, 01:24 AM

M46Fr3D

June 23rd, 2012, 01:27 AM

Maybe, Vietnam and the Philiipines can file jointly on the ITLOS? It may not be the ultimate solution but it at least gives bad rap to China.
The problem with China it often accuses its neighbors on acting unilaterally
In their own backyard and china complains while china unilaterally puts infras in its neighbors territory.

That is plain arrogance that is parallel to European colonization in the 16th century

The problem in ASEAN is full of leeches. Trust me, if we pull this thing of to ITLOS, the stupid Malaysia and some other claimants except Taiwan will take it there. This is a domino effect that will make the dragon fall on its knees.

M46Fr3D

June 23rd, 2012, 01:29 AM

China to PH: Don’t fan shoal fire .

Oh come one. What will you fucking do if i sit on those rocks and shit? Are you gonna fire a missile and explode the shits out of me?

Askal82

June 23rd, 2012, 01:32 AM

The problem in ASEAN is full of leeches. Trust me, if we pull this thing of to ITLOS, the stupid Malaysia and some other claimants except Taiwan will take it there. This is a domino effect that will make the dragon fall on its knees.

I kinda agree on this.

Problema kasi kala nila parang mga MILF or NPA lang kalaban nila na dinadaan daan lang sa table ang sitwasyon sa mga yan. Eh yung nga lang wala rin lang nangyayari.

:bash::bash:

M46Fr3D

June 23rd, 2012, 01:35 AM

Del Rosario et al seems to be making blunder after blunder. I think we should fire his a$$. First, they haven't filed s4hit and second, they pulled out our ships believing that they would pull out too because of miscommunication and the bad weather situation? Idiots!, it's very clear nagpauto kayo dyan. :bash: :bash:

Wtf are they doing? :soapbox:

Buti pa Vietnam.

Now that the government see that these fucking communist dont even understand a thing, what are they gonna do? Geez!! Our officials are starting to look incompetent and stupid. tsk tsk tsk.

Beam Magnum

June 23rd, 2012, 01:35 AM

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Jewel865/panatagfortress.jpg

Peoples Republic of China - PLA Navy Fortress - Huangyan Island ex Panatag Shoal

( Taken by China while Pinoy is sleeping - natutulog sa pansitan )

I know that structure its a landbased anti-aircraft platform somewhere from England. Original built from WWII for anti-aircraft defense against the Luftwafffe.
http://s12.postimage.org/4500o0u4d/Land_based_anti_aircraft_platform.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Askal82

June 23rd, 2012, 01:42 AM

Now that the government see that these fucking communist dont even understand a thing, what are they gonna do? Geez!! Our officials are starting to look incompetent and stupid. tsk tsk tsk.

Instead of "They have done nothing but wonders." naging "They have done nothing but blunders." :lol::lol::bash::bash:

KnightOfTheFlag

June 23rd, 2012, 02:55 AM

Philippines eyes purchase of third warship, plus three naval helicopters
22-Jun-12, 2:25 PM | Abigail Kwok, Interaksyon.com

InterAksyon.com
The online news portal of TV5

MANILA, Philippines - The Philippines is planning to purchase a third warship and three naval helicopters to bolster its maritime defense capabilities in a region increasingly wary of China's looming presence.

The Philippines currently has one warship in its possession, the BRP Gregorio del Pilar. Another warship, the BRP Ramon Alcaraz, is expected to arrive in the country later this year.

Apart from a third warship, the Philippine Navy said it was planning to purchase three "marinized" naval helicopters to complement its available warships.

No definite date has been set, but Navy chief Vice Admiral Alexander Pama told reporters Friday the plan is to buy these using funds generated from the Energy department's Malampaya project.

Pama, in an interview with reporters at the Air Power Symposium in Pasay City, said the three will eventually be attached to the Hamilton-class cutters purchased from the United States.

"Our budget is set for three [helicopters] since domain awareness calls for helicopters on board; that’s why in our program there are three helicopters [for] three Hamilton Class [ships]. One is to one," Pama explained.

At the moment, officials are busy preparing for the arrival of the second warship, BRP Alcaraz. A 90-man crew from the Navy has been in Charleston, South Carolina since April for training and repairing of the ship.

http://www.interaksyon.com/article/35502/philippines-eyes-purchase-of-third-warship-plus-three-naval-helicopters

Wow a third Hamilton ship is on the drawing boards....but I've got mixed feelings about this....I think we oath to buy brand new ones which is more specialized and not these old hand-me-downs....but like the old Filipino saying...."Buti na yan kesa sa WALA"..

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 03:12 AM

I am not setting it to my own liking. I merely am reminding you to be mindful of others. This is a public forum, hence the need to compromise. You can't just say my style here. Besides, avoid personal attacks on other forumers here like "nagiimagine ka" just because one disagrees with you. Other forumers here have already toned down calling others a commie since bakasaurus post. I hope you so the same to avoid clashes using personal attacks.

so you are setting standards, then i suggest document it or police others the way you want everyone how to post, it will never be a debate without emphasizing things with his own ideas and their will never be posts where everyone is in complete harmony it will appear scripted. personal attacks maybe understand as using nice words that could mean negative to the poster and will result in reply that will build into a bubble where you or anyone much more the mod himself will intervene and put back the posters inside the cell. as i have said i am using commies and pirates to refer to PROC government, the PLA, the politburo and its members and i can use it to refer to an individual who stupidly act like one. i think it's better than generalizing the chinese.

Beam Magnum

June 23rd, 2012, 03:30 AM

Name of the game: Occupy Scarborough

MANILA, Philippines - Leaving the Scarborough (Panatag) Shoal unattended by any Philippine ships may lead to a Chinese 'occupancy' in the area, ultimately bolstering claims of 'ownership', Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin warned on Thursday.

Gazmin said that once the weather improves, he would recommend sending the maritime assets of the Philippines back to shoal.

"The Chinese are not leaving the area; we should return," Gazmin told defense reporters.

Asked what the danger was of not deploying ships to the area, Gazmin said: "Pagka hindi mo tinauhan yung lugar na yun, ang ikukuwan nila, 'occupancy', nanduduon sila, so yun ang gagawin nilang basis nung kanilang claim [If you don't populate the area or fill it with your presence, they will invoke 'occupancy'. They are there, and that's what they will use as basis for their claim]."

The Defense chief said the Philippines would be re-deploying ships from its maritime enforcement agencies, specifically ships from the Coast Guard and the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR).

The Philippines earlier pulled out its ships from the shoal because of typhoon "Butchoy." President Benigno Aquino III on Wednesday said Philippines will send back its ships to Scarborough should Chinese vessels remain in the area.
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/35412/name-of-the-game-occupy-scarborough

Establish some Naval mines around the area and put a sign post there.
http://s17.postimage.org/772pfuzqn/no_dogs_chinese.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 03:35 AM

Name of the game: Occupy Scarborough

Establish some Naval mines around the area and put a sign post there.
http://s17.postimage.org/772pfuzqn/no_dogs_chinese.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

buti naman at napag-isipan mo gazmin, mga tulisan kausap ninyo wag kayong maniwala sa mga yan dapat bumalik na agad cla after nung bagyo andaming rason itong AFP kasi e,..

Askal82

June 23rd, 2012, 03:59 AM

Go Gazmin! Please knock some senses out of them.

Beam Magnum

June 23rd, 2012, 04:19 AM

Allies wage largest live-fire drill since Korean War

Read here
http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/korea/allies-wage-largest-live-fire-drill-since-korean-war-1.181046

Maxxclip

June 23rd, 2012, 04:26 AM

-dp-

Askal82

June 23rd, 2012, 04:33 AM

Take note of the short take off this can do! I really want the PAF to have these babies.

V7a242nxOas

kjVIaVOvI3U

Beam Magnum

June 23rd, 2012, 04:56 AM

India developing indigenous unmanned stealth bomber IUSAV, set to join elite club

India has been developing its own unmanned stealth bomber, officially designated as Indian Unmanned Strike Air Vehicle (IUSAV).

Two years after first reporting that India has been secretly working on its monumental future weapon, Headlines Today has now exclusively accessed concept design images of what this robotic aircraft would look like.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-developing-indigenous-unmanned-stealth-bomber-iusav-set-to-join-elite-club/1/201996.html

Lagut China. India is serious now.

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 05:19 AM

Take note of the short take off this can do! I really want the PAF to have these babies.

V7a242nxOas

kjVIaVOvI3U

kasing presyo lang din ng f18s,..the Europeans are very fond of canards and deltas for stability and maneuver probably to offset lack of advance avionics and 3d vectoring technology to control and fly the plane however its shape is,..

M46Fr3D

June 23rd, 2012, 06:14 AM

Lets build something like this in Kalayaan in Palawan para naman hindi lang runway ang nandoon at lumang anti-aircraft guns. Tapos instead of guns eh SAM ang ilagay at lagyan na rin ng torpedoes para sa submarine.

http://s12.postimage.org/4500o0u4d/Land_based_anti_aircraft_platform.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/42/Antisubmarine_torpedo_tubes.JPEG/800px-Antisubmarine_torpedo_tubes.JPEG

Manila-X

June 23rd, 2012, 08:27 AM

Take note of the short take off this can do! I really want the PAF to have these babies.

Same here! I prefer them as our main MRFs compared to The F-16, Rafale or any Russian aircraft.

Beam Magnum

June 23rd, 2012, 08:58 AM

Kung sino gusto makita ng Chinese military, airforce and navy dito.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/

Manila-X

June 23rd, 2012, 09:01 AM

I don't think the media "leaked" this, more like both of them (ABS-CBN & PAF) wants this info out to the public. just yesterday morning someone from the PAF and DFA went to ANC to give interviews about the still unofficial TA-50 acquisition.

I do hope that our DND ./ PAF are for real when issuing such report. I would hate it when I hear news of them buying such air craft or equipment and then back out the last minute. Or not even buying it at all.

As for the T-50, if that is what The DND wanted to buy then better for them to sign the deal and purchase them than backing out and then look for other choices for LIFT.

It happened with our F-16 deal but there is a good reason why The DND decline such.

pi_malejana

June 23rd, 2012, 09:05 AM

Kung sino gusto makita ng Chinese military, airforce and navy dito.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/

naku po pag nakita ni rain yan...:lol: may gago din kasi dun, taga-boston pa man din, pro-China sa bajo de masinloc issue...:bash::ohno:

Beam Magnum

June 23rd, 2012, 09:22 AM

Navy to rearm 2nd US-made cutter

THE government has allotted funds to buy artillery to rearm the second Hamilton-class cutter that was sold by the United States government to the Philippines without its weapons system, Navy chief Vice Admiral Alexander Pama said Friday.

The US government had agreed to sell the cutter but stripped it of its artillery such as missiles, search radars and a close-in weapons system, leaving only a 76mm gun attached to the ship.

The government, through Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin and Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario, had appealed to their counterparts in a recent visit to the US to retain the weapons system and restore the same artillery that were also removed from the first cutter, but their request was denied.

“Well, we cannot demand. We [can only] ask if it’s possible, and we also understand that they also have their regulations to follow,” Pama said.

“Anyway, the government gave us funds to buy the needed weapons.”

The BRP Gregorio del Pilar was the first weaponless cutter bought by the Philippine government from the US in 2011 at a cost of P450 million.

Pama said the funds allotted by the government included provisions for weapons training of the ship’s personnel.

The BRP Ramon Alcaraz, another Hamilton-class cutter, is expected to arrive in the country on or before November in time for its scheduled commissioning.

By then, the Navy would have completed its weapons system, but Pama declined to say if they would buy the artillery from the US or from another country.

“We added communication equipment and some other equipment. Wea will see all these when the ship arrives,” Pama said.

He said Gazmin was also exploring the possibility of buying defense articles from other countries such jet fighters instead of buying used F-16s from the US.

The BRP Gregorio del Pilar and the BRP Ramon Alcaraz are the new additions to the inventory of the Navy’s mostly World War II vintage vessels.

Pama said there had been no negotiations yet for a third cutter, although getting another one was part of the Navy’s plans for the year. He said they also needed at least three more helicopters to complement the cutters.

“Our domain awareness needs naval equipment such as vessels, and these vessels need helicopters on board,” Pama said.

http://news.manilastandardtoday.com/2012/06/23/navy-to-rearm-2nd-us-made-cutter/

Ay no missiles. Even i post about the Chinese corvettes armament at Timawa a month ago and no reaction. That site made me very disappointed. Matalino sila magsalita kung ano ano pero wala nangyari.

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 09:43 AM

Navy to rearm 2nd US-made cutter

http://news.manilastandardtoday.com/2012/06/23/navy-to-rearm-2nd-us-made-cutter/

Ay no missiles.

dapat nilang armasan mga yan, dilang mga malalaki mga missile magnets pa at mababagal pa lumayag,..

Beam Magnum

June 23rd, 2012, 09:55 AM

dapat nilang armasan mga yan, dilang mga malalaki mga missile magnets pa at mababagal pa lumayag,..

Ay sabi Timawa its not purpose to fight the China its for maritime purpose.:ohno:

Parang d sila seryoso.

DJdanz

June 23rd, 2012, 09:56 AM

Maybe the USA is just protecting thier technology. kaya tinanggalan ng missile at radar yan.... Maghanap nlng tau sa ibang bansa na for sale ung missile at radar nila and then we mount it to the newly acquired cutter. Or we must build our own.

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 09:56 AM

Ay sabi Timawa its not purpose to fight the China its for maritime purpose.:ohno:

Parang d sila seryoso.

ano pa silbi sa pagbili nila ng mga yan dapat superferry nalang pinangharap nila sa mga pirata,..:lol:

Beam Magnum

June 23rd, 2012, 10:05 AM

ano pa silbi sa pagbili nila ng mga yan dapat superferry nalang pinangharap nila sa mga pirata,..:lol:

Mas wala silbi kung bumili sila ng Super Tucano for counterinsurgency. Its that plane heavily armor? The MILF has brand new heavy machine gun and sniper it can shoot down tin can plane in matter of seconds.

DJdanz

June 23rd, 2012, 10:12 AM

3rd lagest shipbuilder sana tayo. kahit 10 warship within 2 years tapos lahat sa hajin-subic yan. makakamura ang pinas kapag maramihan ung order.

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 11:19 AM

Mas wala silbi kung bumili sila ng Super Tucano for counterinsurgency. Its that plane heavily armor? The MILF has brand new heavy machine gun and sniper it can shoot down tin can plane in matter of seconds.

since they do not have missiles (shoulder-fire) and anti-aircraft guns, i think our current coin aircraft models are enough although we need at least 10 in each hot regions like most of mindanao, bicol, samar, etc. i am very dis-appointed on the VIP sokols though:ohno:

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 11:22 AM

3rd lagest shipbuilder sana tayo. kahit 10 warship within 2 years tapos lahat sa hajin-subic yan. makakamura ang pinas kapag maramihan ung order.

small fast attack crafts heavily armed with ASM and AAM (even stingers) maybe 2 dozens of these made in subic or cebu shipyards we can deploy in a year,..:cheers:

M46Fr3D

June 23rd, 2012, 01:10 PM

http://www.iluvcebu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/supercat.jpg

Fast crafts such as this if armed will be a force to reckon in WPS.

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 02:03 PM

FILIPINOS NEED TO THINK DEEPER IF WE ARE TO SURVIVE AS A NATION!!! KODUS TO RIGHT THINKERS!!!:cheers::cheers::cheers:HOW ABOUT YOU DO YOU THINK WHAT GOOD THINKERS THINK???TRAINERS IS A BULLSHIT REASON!!!

EDITORIAL - If we must arm, let us arm wisely
(The Freeman) Updated June 23, 2012 12:00 AM Comments (1)

| Zoom
The standoff with China over the Scarborough Shoal has brought to the fore the problem of the Philippines having a military capability that is an embarrassment compared to the rest of its neighbors in the region.

The solution is obvious — the Philippines needs to beef up its military, not to match the might of the Chinese military as if we are really girding for war with that nation, but in a way that not only makes us no pushover but helps us keep our dignity as well.

To go in that direction, however, would need a hefty budget from our meager resources. Nevertheless, it is a direction we will have to eventually follow, if not now then sometime in the very near future.

All things considered, however, it is best to do it now than wait until either we can no longer afford to do so or, worse, it is already too late. A word of caution, though, about proceeding now, especially since some people in government appear to have already made some choices.

Look, if we have to arm ourselves, let us go for the best we can afford. Remember, we are only after deterrence and self-respect, not necessarily to go to war. Thus, a few top-of-the-line assets would be preferable than more assets that our neighbors will only sneeze at.

If your neighbors have even just two or three Armalites or AK-47s, buying three dozen pocket knives will not make any difference. In other words, what is the point in buying a dozen South Korean T-50s when your neighbors have F-14s, F-15s, F-16s and F-18s?:okay::okay:

These latter fighter jets are in fact already obsolete by American standards, but they still pack the kind of wallop that neighbors in the region will have to think of really hard first before trying to test the limits of our nerves.

But South Korean T-50s? Why, model planes look more menacing. Leftist partylist congressman Teodoro Casiño, who does not want to buy any planes at all, is right for an entirely different reason — such a purchase only opens us up to corruption. Why buy a T-50 unless....?

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=820143&publicationSubCategoryId=109

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 02:19 PM

PUTTING THESE STUFFS SIDE BY SIDE IT'S CLEAR WHAT WE BADLY NEED TO DEFEND THE WPS!!!

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_T-50B_Golden_Eagle_lg.jpg
The T-50 the never mind AIR SUPOTiority fighter many wants to have in our PAF, largely unproven as a fighter we are betting a losing game,..

Homegrown unproven copied advance fighter, the J-10 plus the su-30s (both copies and russian-built)
http://www.chinatoday.com/arm/airppane/j10-01.jpg

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/fighter/f18ef/f18e_10.jpg

F-18s-With the proven combat records and extremely high alpha, it can whack all types of the pirates air assets in the WPS sky!

Beam Magnum

June 23rd, 2012, 02:23 PM

YEAH. Na warn ko na yan tungkol sa theory Chinese aggression from 20 years. Di naniwala pa. TIMAWA FAGS u want Super Tucano bahala na kayo dyan puro outdated kayo dyan.

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 02:28 PM

YEAH. Na warn ko na yan tungkol sa theory Chinese aggression from 20 years. Di naniwala pa. TIMAWA FAGS u want Super Tucano bahala na kayo dyan puro outdated kayo dyan.

I have this in mind that some politics brewing in the AFP regarding acquisition of these so called "fighters", it's either they cannot play with the american system if they want some kickbacks or the commander in chief again over ruled the AFP plan of procuring these MRFs,..:ohno:

Manila-X

June 23rd, 2012, 04:20 PM

Manila-X

June 23rd, 2012, 04:48 PM

Homegrown unproven copied advance fighter, the J-10 plus the su-30s (both copies and russian-built)

F-18s-With the proven combat records and extremely high alpha, it can whack all types of the pirates air assets in the WPS sky!

The question is if The DND can afford to buy a squadron of F-18s the fact they are more expensive compared to The F-16s.

Now, how about if JAS Gripens were bought?

http://www.chinatoday.com/arm/airppane/j10-01.jpg

VS.

http://www.f-16.net/attachments/jas_39_gripen_660.jpg

jehyrson

June 23rd, 2012, 05:02 PM

jehyrson

June 23rd, 2012, 05:26 PM

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 06:01 PM

As if buying 3 dozens of Armalites or AK-47s and handing to a person who doesn't have the know how on how to use would make a difference.:bash:
What a dumb idea comparing two different scenario. A person who's feet on the ground and the other one up in air. Do you think it will be an easy transition for our pilots who have not fly a fighter jet to just jump in a real MRF and operate it to perfection. It's easy for you to say "WE NEED REAL MRF blah blah blah" but the fact that IT'S NOT YOUR LIFE ON THE LINE WHEN FLYING THOSE JET'S SO YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO BASH IF THE GOVERNMENT WILL BUY FIRST THE LIFT BEFORE THE MRF's.

do you think we have inexperienced pilots compared to our neighbors in asia???you are not thinking do you???:bash::bash::bash:try to see myanmar, look how many MRFs they got, and most of asean nations nakakahiya ang pinas at china pa ang kaharap natin cla nga walang mga threat may mga mrfs, e,..wala akong paki sa inutil na pag iisip meron ang AFP t ang gobyerno sa pagbili ng mga inutil na kasangkapan ng AFP na yan wala clang planong harapin ang mga tulisan sa WPS,..

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 06:19 PM

The question is if The DND can afford to buy a squadron of F-18s the fact they are more expensive compared to The F-16s.

Now, how about if JAS Gripens were bought?

http://www.chinatoday.com/arm/airppane/j10-01.jpg

VS.

http://www.f-16.net/attachments/jas_39_gripen_660.jpg

the f-16s we are eyeing before are cheaper because they are refurbished and resurrected from the boneyard, if brand new within the range of the gripen and f-18s, between 45~60MUSD a pop,while the FA-50 around 30MUSD,..

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 06:31 PM

jehyrson

June 23rd, 2012, 06:34 PM

do you think we have inexperienced pilots compared to our neighbors in asia???you are not thinking do you???:bash::bash::bash:try to see myanmar, look how many MRFs they got, and most of asean nations nakakahiya ang pinas at china pa ang kaharap natin cla nga walang mga threat may mga mrfs, e,..wala akong paki sa inutil na pag iisip meron ang AFP t ang gobyerno sa pagbili ng mga inutil na kasangkapan ng AFP na yan wala clang planong harapin ang mga tulisan sa WPS,..

Since when did or current PAF pilot have experience in flying fighter jet? Because as far as I can remember the only fighter jets that we have were the F5 that were retired in 2005. Don't tell me since they are flying the SF 260 and S211 they are now qualified to fly a real MRF. It's like saying that our jeepny drivers just because they know how to drive they are already qualified to drive the F1 cars, which they are not. Susmaryosep, una Uganda ngaun naman Myanmar. Nagiisip ka ba talaga? Kaya nakakapag palipad yung mga piloto nila ng current fighter jets kasi continues yung development ng mga piloto nila and they even have trainer jets. Do yourself a favor, read more and post less.

Askal82

June 23rd, 2012, 06:43 PM

nakakahiya na talaga PAF natin, tignan ninyo halimbawa ang thailand maryosep andaming MRFs samantalang puro turboprop trainers lang meron cla tayo mga bombers, recon, fighters are basic trainers rolled into one pero dparin marunong magpapalipad sabi ng ibang pilipino???ano pwedeng itawag mo sa PAF natin ngayun ha???kailangan pa mag trainers para makakapagpalipad ng MRFs???B#LLSH!T!!!:bash::bash::bash:

If we are to provide the best returns in our investment - and that means having the best pilots we can produce, then getting the advanced trainers simulating the advanced controls of the latest MRF's is the first step.

the f-16s we are eyeing before are cheaper because they are refurbished and resurrected from the boneyard, if brand new within the range of the gripen and f-18s, between 45~60MUSD a pop,while the FA-50 around 30MUSD,..

FILIPINOS NEED TO THINK DEEPER IF WE ARE TO SURVIVE AS A NATION!!! KODUS TO RIGHT THINKERS!!!:cheers::cheers::cheers:HOW ABOUT YOU DO YOU THINK WHAT GOOD THINKERS THINK???TRAINERS IS A BULLSHIT REASON!!!

EDITORIAL - If we must arm, let us arm wisely
(The Freeman) Updated June 23, 2012 12:00 AM Comments (1)

| Zoom
The standoff with China over the Scarborough Shoal has brought to the fore the problem of the Philippines having a military capability that is an embarrassment compared to the rest of its neighbors in the region.

The solution is obvious — the Philippines needs to beef up its military, not to match the might of the Chinese military as if we are really girding for war with that nation, but in a way that not only makes us no pushover but helps us keep our dignity as well.

To go in that direction, however, would need a hefty budget from our meager resources. Nevertheless, it is a direction we will have to eventually follow, if not now then sometime in the very near future.

All things considered, however, it is best to do it now than wait until either we can no longer afford to do so or, worse, it is already too late. A word of caution, though, about proceeding now, especially since some people in government appear to have already made some choices.

Look, if we have to arm ourselves, let us go for the best we can afford. Remember, we are only after deterrence and self-respect, not necessarily to go to war. Thus, a few top-of-the-line assets would be preferable than more assets that our neighbors will only sneeze at.

If your neighbors have even just two or three Armalites or AK-47s, buying three dozen pocket knives will not make any difference. In other words, what is the point in buying a dozen South Korean T-50s when your neighbors have F-14s, F-15s, F-16s and F-18s?:okay::okay:

These latter fighter jets are in fact already obsolete by American standards, but they still pack the kind of wallop that neighbors in the region will have to think of really hard first before trying to test the limits of our nerves.

But South Korean T-50s? Why, model planes look more menacing. Leftist partylist congressman Teodoro Casiño, who does not want to buy any planes at all, is right for an entirely different reason — such a purchase only opens us up to corruption. Why buy a T-50 unless....?

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=820143&publicationSubCategoryId=109

Obviously, the editor doesn't know what he was talking about. There is a purpose on buying many advanced trainers first. :lol: :lol:

do you think we have inexperienced pilots compared to our neighbors in asia???you are not thinking do you???:bash::bash::bash:try to see myanmar, look how many MRFs they got, and most of asean nations nakakahiya ang pinas at china pa ang kaharap natin cla nga walang mga threat may mga mrfs, e,..wala akong paki sa inutil na pag iisip meron ang AFP t ang gobyerno sa pagbili ng mga inutil na kasangkapan ng AFP na yan wala clang planong harapin ang mga tulisan sa WPS,..

The big question is, given how our PAF deteriorated over years, do we have ample pilots proficient enough who can operate these advanced aircrafts?. We might lose several lives and air crafts even before we can even engage them. Haven't you read the report about the Indian airforce suffering several air crashes over the years and they pinpointed it to the lack of advanced trainers to fill in the gap between the turboprop and their MRF's?

Sila nga na masmadami ang flight experience ng mga piloto, nagcacrash pa, mga piloto pa ng PAF na kulang na kulang ang mga experience? :lol: :lol:

In other words, we are starting cold here.

That's the problem.

What's needed are advanced missile systems for now. That's all we can do for now.

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 06:53 PM

If we are to provide the best returns in our investment - and that means having the best pilots we can produce, then getting the advanced trainers simulating the advanced controls of the latest MRF's is the first step.

The big question is, given how our PAF deteriorated over years, do we have ample pilots proficient enough who can operate these advanced aircrafts?. We might lose several lives and air crafts even before we can even engage them. Haven't you read the report about the Indian airforce suffering several air crashes over the years and they pinpointed it to the lack of advanced trainers to fill in the gap between the turboprop and their MRF's?

That's the problem.

What's needed are advanced missile systems for now.

if you revisit PAFs inventory half are trainers and then we are not producing pilots capable to handle MRFs?what's so special with MRFs?trainers are used by the pilots to gain flying hours required to handle Advanced fighters, now in case of pending national emergency like supposedly what the commies are doing now squatting in our territories, i supposed we have enough pilots for a squadron of MRFs,..magkano kaya gagastusin para mai-refurbish yung mga natitirang F-5s natin?how can we ask PAF regarding their pilots if they can handle advance fighters can they give some numbers?

jehyrson

June 23rd, 2012, 07:07 PM

Askal82

June 23rd, 2012, 07:15 PM

if you revisit PAFs inventory half are trainers and then we are not producing pilots capable to handle MRFs?what's so special with MRFs?trainers are used by the pilots to gain flying hours required to handle Advanced fighters, now in case of pending national emergency like supposedly what the commies are doing now squatting in our territories, i supposed we have enough pilots for a squadron of MRFs,..magkano kaya gagastusin para mai-refurbish yung mga natitirang F-5s natin?how can we ask PAF regarding their pilots if they can handle advance fighters can they give some numbers?

That's not enough. Many advanced avionics from the latest MRF's are missing on those outdated turboprop trainers. If Philippines wanted to produce the best, quality pilots available today, these pilots must be proficient on learning to use them in practice - and that means through these advanced trainer jets simulating the controls of the latest MRF's and use them for their own advantage.

If you were taught how to use Windows 95, and not learned anything about Windows 7, how are you expected to perform efficiently and productively when it is your first time using the Windows 7? The worst thing that could happen is crash the system

For pilots the worst thing that could happen is crash the plane and die.

Actually, what I had in mind is that if we are to acquire the MRF's instead, then the government should send our pilots to other countries for training (like Australia or Europe for example) so when they come back, they would have enough experience to fly them. But then, I just wonder how costly this would be.

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 07:33 PM

I kompara mo nga ang avionics ng SF260 at S211 sa mga MRF's, do you think pariho yang mga yan. Oh boy, you clearly don't have any idea on the PAF status before the said acquisition of those LIFT.
@Bold..With that kind of question, I just realized you are not worth replying for.

so what is your idea of immediate respond to the commies at our territories???to buy trainers???oh boy blah blah blah!!!!:bash::bash::bash: i am hopeful we have at least 12 PAF pilots that can handle MRFs, at bakit ang mga avionics ng mga trainers ng mga aseans na merong sangkaterbang MRFs kamukha rin ng mga MRFs???papukpuk nalang kokote mo para matangal na lumuwag na tornilyo mo at makapag-isip ka ng maayos,..:bash::bash::bash::ohno:

Askal82

June 23rd, 2012, 07:39 PM

so what is your idea of immediate respond to the commies at our territories???to buy trainers???oh boy blah blah blah!!!!:bash::bash::bash: i am hopeful we have at least 12 PAF pilots that can handle MRFs, at bakit ang mga avionics ng mga trainers ng mga aseans na merong sangkaterbang MRFs kamukha rin ng mga MRFs???papukpuk nalang kokote mo para matangal na lumuwag na tornilyo mo at makapag-isip ka ng maayos,..:bash::bash::bash::ohno:

Ballistic missiles to buy time before the PAF has the ability to intercept. :lol::lol:

Askal82

June 23rd, 2012, 07:42 PM

I do hope that our DND ./ PAF are for real when issuing such report. I would hate it when I hear news of them buying such air craft or equipment and then back out the last minute. Or not even buying it at all.

As for the T-50, if that is what The DND wanted to buy then better for them to sign the deal and purchase them than backing out and then look for other choices for LIFT.

It happened with our F-16 deal but there is a good reason why The DND decline such.

Whatever that is, they have to make the decision very quickly, anything signed today would take 2 years or more before we get them. We don't have the luxury of time to begin with and let's hope they realize that as well.

d7beast

June 23rd, 2012, 07:47 PM

Ballistic missiles to buy time before the PAF has the ability to intercept. :lol::lol:

nakakaawa ang pinas talagang kinakaya lang ng mga commies pag sakop sa mga teritoryo natin, dko alam bakit dnatin build-up ang AFP natin, panahon ni makoy an dami nating kagamitan dkolang alam kung mga binigay ng kano lahat yun pero napaka aktibo ng PADC nung time nya maraming nagawang prototype na mga armas, helicopter, eroplano, missiles,sayang at kung naayos lang nya pagkakatrabaho nung BNPP malamang may mga nuke scientist narin tayo. kung wala tayong ni 10 na pilotong makakapagpalipad ng MRFs aba ipa-outsource nalang natin defence sa US pwede kaya yun?:ohno:o parentahan natin uli clark at subic or a new base at sparatly sa mga kano,..:nuts:

Askal82

June 23rd, 2012, 07:51 PM

the f-16s we are eyeing before are cheaper because they are refurbished and resurrected from the boneyard, if brand new within the range of the gripen and f-18s, between 45~60MUSD a pop,while the FA-50 around 30MUSD,..

Yeah, the 2nd hand F16 looks cheaper, but the operating costs are phenomenally high. Brand new Gripens or F18's may have high up front costs but are cheaper to operate in the long run.

The cheapest would be the FA-50, but the combat ability is still in question.

vishaya

June 24th, 2012, 12:08 AM

reading from defense forums and the posts here (excluding nonsensical ones), i am not in favor of the T/A-50 for our LIFT assets (armed version) due to its limited range and several restrictions imposed by Lockheed Martin. i hope acquisitions for our LIFT assets will not be rushed, it really needs careful evaluation. Seems like the italian M-346 has the edge for dedicated lead-in trainers.

in line with this, the acquisition of MRF's should begin immediately, it takes a long time from order to delivery date. hopefully we can get the Gripens or the Typhoons if we can afford it.

vishaya

June 24th, 2012, 12:28 AM

if the intent is to arm our trainers, then F/A-50 is the way to go. however, this cannot serve our immediate policing needs for WPS due to its limited strike radius and further limitations by Lockheed Martin, especially on radar systems. it might be just a waste of money.

thus, dedicated trainers + MRF's is the best option to acquire immediately.

M46Fr3D

June 24th, 2012, 01:38 AM

do you think we have inexperienced pilots compared to our neighbors in asia???you are not thinking do you???:bash::bash::bash:try to see myanmar, look how many MRFs they got, and most of asean nations nakakahiya ang pinas at china pa ang kaharap natin cla nga walang mga threat may mga mrfs, e,..wala akong paki sa inutil na pag iisip meron ang AFP t ang gobyerno sa pagbili ng mga inutil na kasangkapan ng AFP na yan wala clang planong harapin ang mga tulisan sa WPS,..

On the other side, i dont think Myanmar pilots are really using the full capability of their MRFs. I havent seen them getting in action with their MRFs.

I just hope our government will buy MRFs as soon as possible. If they procure it with the trainers by tomorrow, then by all means do so. Most of our pilots just needs refresher and not full time idiots that you have to introduce to them the history, concepts, and whatnots of aviation.

M46Fr3D

June 24th, 2012, 01:45 AM

If you were taught how to use Windows 95, and not learned anything about Windows 7, how are you expected to perform efficiently and productively when it is your first time using the Windows 7? The worst thing that could happen is crash the system

My first computer is a Windows XP. Ive never handled Windows 95. And yeah, it crashed... but after 6 years. It just took me a month to have a feel with my machine and became use to it that i was able to become more knowledgeable than my classmates who have been using computers since Windows 3.1

Beam Magnum

June 24th, 2012, 01:55 AM

Do you have any proof that a Super Tucano has been shoot down by a machine gun or by a sniper?

Do you have a a list of dates of air mission about the Bronco fighter bombing any NPA camps in the jungle lair?

Even they bought Super Tucano there is no guarantee that can find the NPA or providing close air support for the ground troops gets ambush every time its just a worthless, useless its only a showoff to scare the enemy.

Even a slow helicopter can be shot down by a sniper like this example

http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3177:peru-police-helicopter-shot-down-by-narcotraffickers&catid=35:latin-america&Itemid=58

Manila-X

June 24th, 2012, 02:49 AM

Whatever that is, they have to make the decision very quickly, anything signed today would take 2 years or more before we get them. We don't have the luxury of time to begin with and let's hope they realize that as well.

I hope so as well. What I hate in this country especially those in government, there will always be opposition on anything that will benefit the country or will help it progress.

Just like Casiño's reaction on the plan of acquiring T-50 / FA-50.

But acquiring such LIFTs is vital to our country especially in the modernization of our armed forces.

And these are not just trainers but have MRF capability as well. But again, it is still a question whether The T-50 is capable in combat since it is a new plane.

I do hope a decision is made by July. Time is running out.

Manila-X

June 24th, 2012, 02:50 AM

nakakaawa ang pinas talagang kinakaya lang ng mga commies pag sakop sa mga teritoryo natin, dko alam bakit dnatin build-up ang AFP natin, panahon ni makoy an dami nating kagamitan dkolang alam kung mga binigay ng kano lahat yun pero napaka aktibo ng PADC nung time nya maraming nagawang prototype na mga armas, helicopter, eroplano, missiles,sayang at kung naayos lang nya pagkakatrabaho nung BNPP malamang may mga nuke scientist narin tayo. kung wala tayong ni 10 na pilotong makakapagpalipad ng MRFs aba ipa-outsource nalang natin defence sa US pwede kaya yun?:ohno:o parentahan natin uli clark at subic or a new base at sparatly sa mga kano,..:nuts:

Hindi natin territoryo ang Spratlys lalo na ang Panatag Shoal. Meron lang tayong claim dun sa lugar na yun.

Pero hindi rin tayo papayag na sakopin ng Tsina ang mga claims natin lalo na malapit sila sa ating mainland.

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 02:51 AM

My first computer is a Windows XP. Ive never handled Windows 95. And yeah, it crashed... but after 6 years. It just took me a month to have a feel with my machine and became use to it that i was able to become more knowledgeable than my classmates who have been using computers since Windows 3.1

O.T.

There is not much of a difference between XP and 7 anyway.

But if you're coming from a DOS based version of Windows like Windows 3.1 to Windows ME, then it's like teaching you how to install the printer using the good old fashioned parallel port (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_port) cables instead of the USB that is ubiquitous on these devices these days. :lol::lol:

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 03:00 AM

I hope so as well. What I hate in this country especially those in government, there will always be opposition on anything that will benefit the country or will help it progress.

Just like Casiño's reaction on the plan of acquiring T-50 / FA-50.

But acquiring such LIFTs is vital to our country especially in the modernization of our armed forces.

And these are not just trainers but have MRF capability as well.

I do hope a decision is made by July. Time is running out.

Yeupz, politics could get in the way and it is showing its ugly signs. It's very clear what Casiño is trying to come up with so we shouldn't listen to his non-sense. It shows that after 20 years of neglect, the government has always been reactionary. It won't act until something happened. :bash::bash:

I think the jet trainers are simply stop gap measures before we transition to acquiring MRF's considering that we are 'reviving' our air force after a long deep sleep. Starting cold is the most difficult part of getting it up and running. There should be some warm up exercises. :lol:

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 03:23 AM

That's not enough. Many advanced avionics from the latest MRF's are missing on those outdated turboprop trainers. If Philippines wanted to produce the best, quality pilots available today, these pilots must be proficient on learning to use them in practice - and that means through these advanced trainer jets simulating the controls of the latest MRF's and use them for their own advantage.

If you were taught how to use Windows 95, and not learned anything about Windows 7, how are you expected to perform efficiently and productively when it is your first time using the Windows 7? The worst thing that could happen is crash the system

For pilots the worst thing that could happen is crash the plane and die.

Actually, what I had in mind is that if we are to acquire the MRF's instead, then the government should send our pilots to other countries for training (like Australia or Europe for example) so when they come back, they would have enough experience to fly them. But then, I just wonder how costly this would be.

if i am a full time and experienced pilot in our PAF, if you tell me if I can fly an MRF why not? I started using dos, win311,w95~w7, there's nothing big differences that would prevent me from using windows8. and why our pilots able to handle 20 F-5s without using jet trainers? what i mean is that if we have a dozen pilots qualified to handle or can fly MRFs immediately maybe with some refresher then let's buy those MRFs because we need it now. we also have around 20 initial S-211 jet trainers we even use it as recon, bombers, cas and probably a fighter apart from simply jet trainers. I'm sure from the time we acquire these jet trainers we have a dozen or more very experienced pilot that we can assign to handle the MRFs,..i've posted here before a video of PAF pilots how they handle the S-211 in actual scenario you would believe in your eyes these guys have outgrown those trainers already they are like flying the craft in some video games they are classic fighter pilots definitely not a noob,..

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 03:38 AM

Yeupz, politics could get in the way and it is showing its ugly signs. It's very clear what Casiño is trying to come up with so we shouldn't listen to his non-sense. It shows that after 20 years of neglect, the government has always been reactionary. It won't act until something happened. :bash::bash:

I think the jet trainers are simply stop gap measures before we transition to acquiring MRF's considering that we are 'reviving' our air force after a long deep sleep. Starting cold is the most difficult part of getting it up and running. There should be some warm up exercises. :lol:

but askal, we have no time left we need our combat pilots and their asses in new MRFs now and this is not the time of this little chances left to buy trainers and comb those cadets to become what our perfect-minded kababayans as iyakin ACES of PAF, i strongly believe we have enough veteran and experienced pilots to just plug and play in a dozen brand new MRFs,..

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 03:46 AM

but askal, we have no time left we need our combat pilots and their asses in new MRFs now and this is not the time of this little chances left to buy trainers and comb those cadets to become what our perfect-minded kababayans as iyakin ACES of PAF, i strongly believe we have enough veteran and experienced pilots to just plug and play in a dozen brand new MRFs,..

Yeah, you just strongly believe but we would like to be certain. Certainty as to the availability of our pilots and their proficiency to fly these new machines can spell a huge difference between life and death, success and failure.

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 03:54 AM

if i am a full time and experienced pilot in our PAF, if you tell me if I can fly an MRF why not? I started using dos, win311,w95~w7, there's nothing big differences that would prevent me from using windows8. and why our pilots able to handle 20 F-5s without using jet trainers? what i mean is that if we have a dozen pilots qualified to handle or can fly MRFs immediately maybe with some refresher then let's buy those MRFs because we need it now. we also have around 20 initial S-211 jet trainers we even use it as recon, bombers, cas and probably a fighter apart from simply jet trainers. I'm sure from the time we acquire these jet trainers we have a dozen or more very experienced pilot that we can assign to handle the MRFs,..i've posted here before a video of PAF pilots how they handle the S-211 in actual scenario you would believe in your eyes these guys have outgrown those trainers already they are like flying the craft in some video games they are classic fighter pilots definitely not a noob,..

Those trainers are so old school - they don't have the modern avionics and HUD systems that are available on the latest fighter jets. If we want them to be effective pilots, they must learn how to use them to their advantage. Sure they can fly the F-5's but they are quite outdated compared to what the latest MRF's have to offer.

They won't give the pilots the kind of training to carry out the critical missions they needed in preparation for using the new generation of MRF's in the near future.

In theory, we could acquire these MRF's right away provided that we train our pilots elsewhere.

But given the AFP budget at present, it's just not feasible at this moment.

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 04:01 AM

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 04:05 AM

Those trainers are so old school - they don't have the modern avionics and HUD systems that are available on the latest fighter jets. If we want them to be effective pilots, they must learn how to use them to their advantage. Sure they can fly the F-5's but they are quite outdated compared to what the latest MRF's have to offer.

They won't give the pilots the kind of training to carry out the critical missions they needed in preparation for using the new generation of MRF's in the near future.

In theory, we could acquire these MRF's right away provided that we train our pilots elsewhere.

But given the AFP budget at present, it's just not feasible at this moment.

HUD does not require flying supersonic hype trainers to understand it, i know how to use it flying ATF in realistic combat simulation games, its not a big deal and avionics are the same in principle and also will not require supersonic hype jet trainers to learn it,..

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 04:35 AM

with those videos you can dig at you tube regarding our pilots capability to handle our air assets is an inspiration and pride to all pilipinos, below is some kind video of PAFs s-211 in a simulated dogfight and it's a kill by a PAF pilot if applied in actual condition, how much more if we provide them the best fighter we can get, i would say the pirates would think twice before squatting in our territories.:cheers:villamor did not become an ACE fighter pilot by flying kites, much more those handling sabres, crusaders and f-5s trained in a super(HYPE)sonic jet trainers,..

Ft278XDUjas

Looks good, but that's not enough. Advanced trainers are still required. :lol::lol:

HUD does not require flying supersonic hype trainers to understand it, i know how to use it flying ATF in realistic combat simulation games, its not a big deal and avionics are the same in principle and also will not require supersonic hype jet trainers to learn it,..

Yeah, in principle, but they are the basic ones. How about the advanced ones that provides more information useful for pilot's mission? It's like learning how to use the advanced controls of a professional DSLR from the basic or advanced point and shoot cameras.

That's just simulation, the real thing is of course, is very much different experience. :lol:

Also, there are certain types of aerial maneuvers that should be done on advanced trainers first before we get to handle MRF's because that's where most accidents can happen.

Mr Grey

June 24th, 2012, 04:52 AM

Chinese Navy admiral targets Philippine ships
by Jojo Malig, ABS-CBNnews.com
Posted at 06/23/2012 10:15 PM | Updated as of 06/23/2012 10:15 PM

MANILA, Philippines - Chinese troops should go after Philippine ships and fishermen who go near the disputed Scarborough shoal, a Chinese navy official said.

Rear Admiral Yin Zhuo, director of the People's Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN) Information Expert Committee, said this should be done to “Filipino vessels that hang around in the lagoon and don’t leave," according to state-owned news agency China News Service (CNS).

Yin said Chinese naval troops should board and search Philippine government ships and private fishing vessels.

He said this is already being done by the Philippines on Chinese fishing ships.

Yin said the "Philippines has not yet returned 24 Chinese fishing boats it is holding," referring to Chinese boats intercepted in Philippine territory in October last year.

Yin, who is described by the CNS as a military expert, said Chinese troops "must try to maintain restraint, not force, not hurt people," when going after Philippine ships found in waters near or at Scarborough shoal.

He said Chinese government ships should conduct more regular patrols in the waters off Scarborough to esnure the safety of Chinese fishing boats.

Yin told Communist Party publication the People’s Daily on Thursday that China's navy will not hesitate to use deadly force against its enemies.

“Our navy has the absolute ability and the absolute confidence to use arms to defend our country’s sovereignty, territorial integrity and maritime rights. We’re just waiting for the order,” he said.

President Benigno Aquino said earlier in the week that the Philippines may redeploy ships to the shoal to counter the presence of foreign vessels.

Philippine ships were forced to pull out from the area last weekend due to bad weather.

"If there is a presence in our territorial waters, then we will redeploy. But if there is no other presence of other vessels that might impinge on our sovereignty, there is no need to deploy and they can go back to their normal routine of safeguarding -- the Coast Guard for instance -- our coastlines from… [the] wet season," Aquino told reporters.

He said the decision to redeploy will be based on China's moves to occupy the area.

Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said Saturday that several Chinese ships have been seen again around Scarborough shoal.

Gazmin, in a text message to ANC, said the Chinese vessels were spotted by a Philippine Air Force plane that was deployed to conduct a reconnaissance mission over the disputed area.

He did not say how many Chinese ships are now at Scarborough.

Yin blasts Aquino, 'US-Philippine plan'

Yin, during a discussion with Chinese netizens on the state-owned People's Daily website, also claimed that Aquino's plan to send ships anew to Scarborough shoal is part of a scheme between Manila and Washington to usher in US military troops' return to Asia.

He said the US and the Philippines -- which are bound by a mutual defense treaty -- want to use Scarborough shoal as a flashpoint to break China's friendship with the Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

Yin also accused Aquino of trying to "consolidate his regime" by pleasing military officials.

He said Aquino inherited his mother's bad relationship with the Philippine military, which the country's current president now wants to solve.

The Chinese military official also said Aquino's tough stand on Scarborough "attacks domestic anti-American and pro-Arroyo forces in the Philippines."

It is not known how much influence Yin wields in the PLA.

His statements mirror an earlier call by another hardliner, PLA Major General Luo Yuan, who wants China to launch "decisive action" at Scarborough Shoal to reinforce Beijing's claim on the territory, which is located within the Philippines' exclusive economic zone.

While their comments do not represent official policy and the PLA is only serving on the beck and call of China's Communist Party, officers like Yin and Luo have been given some leeway to strike a tougher tone in their comments, according to foreign analysts.

In 2010, Chinese President Hu Jintao admonished the military for letting officers speak on sensitive issues.

This, however, has not prevented Yin and Luo from airing their hardline views on state-owned media

This Chinese General knows what tactics is bit by bit manila will succumb the same faith as what happened to mischief reef. send the ships already lets see what this chinese dogs will be doing.

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 05:16 AM

^^

Sinuswerte sila. :crazy: :crazy: All they did was alienate the ASEAN against them by bullying Philippines. Inalienate daw natin ang ASEAN sa kanila. :rofl: :rofl:

Behh, buti nga. Pa decisive decisive pa silang nalalaman ha. Ulolz! :lol: :lol:

Sige, go ahead, attack our ships. Tingnan natin. :lol::lol:

kenken94

June 24th, 2012, 05:40 AM

jm0109

June 24th, 2012, 07:14 AM

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/262980/news/regions/ndrrmc-4-missing-after-boat-bumped-by-chinese-vessel

Arvor

June 24th, 2012, 07:25 AM

You guys are letting your imaginations get too wild there is no imminent threat of actual war definetely nothing against the Phillippine mainland the MDT sees to that, even if China were to build structures in Scarborough shoal the Phillippines must only use economic and political or diplomatic means to counter such moves for now as the AFP is far from ready to be committed to a real war .

The idea that we need to resort to desperate measures right now to get pilots in planes is insane and baseless, there is a need for mrf's but not to the point that justifies screwing up a proper and comprehensive development plan of modernisation .

Time is on our side we just need to take the right steps to build the proper capability which takes decades, the government needs to first develop recto bank and develop those ressources and use the proceeds to further develop the economy and fund modernisation, Scarborough shoal is so close to our territory that with a properly developed military in the future we can seize control of the area at will even if the AFP never grows anywhere near the size of the PLA it's a simple question of geographic proximity and balance of power .

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 07:40 AM

in a little a decade we cannot cross the other side of the commies outrageous claim of our territory in the WPS, isolating us from the kalayaan. mischief reef is enough to put us into serious determination and steadfast in countering the wacko's presence anywhere in our territory right now not next year or in the future,..

ManilaBoy45

June 24th, 2012, 07:45 AM

4 fishermen remained missing off the west coast of N. Luzon after their fishing boat was hit by a unidentified Chinese vessel, 4 others were rescued ...

NDRRMC: 4 Missing After Boat Bumped by 'Chinese vessel'
June 24, 2012 8:24am

At least four fishermen were missing after their fishing boat was bumped allegedly by a Chinese vessel off Northern Luzon Saturday, the National Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Council said Sunday.

The NDRRMC said at least four fishermen were also rescued from the incident off Magsingal town in Ilocos Sur province.

In its 6 a.m. report, the NDRRMC said the fishermen's boat, "Axl John," was damaged after being bumped allegedly by a Chinese vessel while anchored at a payaw or artificial fish shelter.

All the fishermen aboard the damaged boat were from Bolinao town in Pangasinan, it added.

The NDRRMC identified the missing fishermen as:

- Fred Celino
- Arnold Garcia
- Domy delos Santos
- Amante Resonable

Rescued and brought to the Gabriela Silang General Hospital in Vigan City were:

- Edimio Balmores, 40
- Herman Balmores, 51
- Celino Damian
- Christopher a.k.a. Udo

The NDRRMC cited initial information from the owner of the damaged boat indicating the "Axl John" was bumped by a Chinese vessel, but did not elaborate. — LBG, GMA News

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 07:45 AM

NO IMMINENT THREAT MY ASS!!!:bash::bash::bash:

NDRRMC: 4 missing after boat bumped by 'Chinese vessel'
June 24, 2012 8:24am
639 68 Email0 ShareThis729
At least four fishermen were missing after their fishing boat was bumped allegedly by a Chinese vessel off Northern Luzon Saturday, the National Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Council said Sunday.

The NDRRMC said at least four fishermen were also rescued from the incident off Magsingal town in Ilocos Sur province.

In its 6 a.m. report, the NDRRMC said the fishermen's boat, "Axl John," was damaged after being bumped allegedly by a Chinese vessel while anchored at a payaw or artificial fish shelter.

All the fishermen aboard the damaged boat were from Bolinao town in Pangasinan, it added.

The NDRRMC identified the missing fishermen as:

- Fred Celino
- Arnold Garcia
- Domy delos Santos
- Amante Resonable

Rescued and brought to the Gabriela Silang General Hospital in Vigan City were:

- Edimio Balmores, 40
- Herman Balmores, 51
- Celino Damian
- Christopher a.k.a. Udo

The NDRRMC cited initial information from the owner of the damaged boat indicating the "Axl John" was bumped by a Chinese vessel, but did not elaborate.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/262980/news/regions/ndrrmc-4-missing-after-boat-bumped-by-chinese-vessel

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 07:52 AM

Looks good, but that's not enough. Advanced trainers are still required. :lol::lol:

Yeah, in principle, but they are the basic ones. How about the advanced ones that provides more information useful for pilot's mission? It's like learning how to use the advanced controls of a professional DSLR from the basic or advanced point and shoot cameras.

That's just simulation, the real thing is of course, is very much different experience. :lol:

Also, there are certain types of aerial maneuvers that should be done on advanced trainers first before we get to handle MRF's because that's where most accidents can happen.

So how about this, i'll cite examples why we need MRFs now, as in ASAP,..
A month or two ago the AFP/DND is salivating for the F-16s they even want 24 F-16's do you think they are not serious in their objective? If our pilots cannot handle well these advance fighters what the heck why they are crying out loud to the US to have the F-16s transferred into our PAF? Or they are just simply live up to their namesake as inutile?:nuts:

Manila-X

June 24th, 2012, 08:11 AM

Yeupz, politics could get in the way and it is showing its ugly signs. It's very clear what Casiño is trying to come up with so we shouldn't listen to his non-sense. It shows that after 20 years of neglect, the government has always been reactionary. It won't act until something happened. :bash::bash:

I think the jet trainers are simply stop gap measures before we transition to acquiring MRF's considering that we are 'reviving' our air force after a long deep sleep. Starting cold is the most difficult part of getting it up and running. There should be some warm up exercises. :lol:

We have to thank China for intruding in our claimed shoals because if it wasn't for this, modernizing our armed forces would not be a priority as it is today.

Casiño does not know what he is talking about. Using the budget to help the poor instead of modernizing our armed forces. The government has done enough to help the needy but the poor should also help themselves.

Manila-X

June 24th, 2012, 08:17 AM

^^ What we need is just one civilian casualty and we're ready to declare war. Subukan lang nila. They won't be pleased with how many nations would go after them if they do something wrong to Filipinos civilians in the area.

This is a test for China to see if they can control itself. If the country makes the wrong move of firing the first shot, there will be great consequences against this country.

The whole world will definitely side with Manila.

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 08:29 AM

PAF pilot training is not a factor anymore if you noticed in below videos of of fighter pilots handling a lowly jet trainer "shooting down" two WARTHOGS is quite impressive, what's more if they are handling an advanced fighter? many of our pilots have enough experience already they already outgrow the training stages. these "ACES" can be called and deploy to dispatch BOOGIES in the WPS,..:cheers:

RnQHbuvX8fA&feature=relmfu :okay::okay:

26brQNtorC4&NR=1 :okay::okay:

VX-84m_VwP0&NR=1 :okay::okay:

SISIW, PARANG COMBAT SIMULATION VIDEO GAMES LANG, NAALALA KO TULOY YUNG A10 SA LOCK ON, AT NASIRA PA FORCE FEEDBACK JOYSTICK KO,..:lol:

kenken94

June 24th, 2012, 08:35 AM

That is what I've been thinking. That is also why I am complacent about our current stand on China's aggression. We just do the right thing and the whole world will be our deterrent against the Chinese.

They should not underestimate the power of Free Press. It can influence public opinion more than imaginable. They of all people (with their propagandist media) should know this fact in the first place.

Then again, we ain't got not military muscle to confront China and we never will. Germany died because it had insufficient resources to fight the prolonged war. China is another case, they will survive a lengthy war because they have vast resources at their disposal compared to the Philippines.

We need a deterrent - we have diplomacy, economics, media and we just lack military muscle to shore it all up. Luckily for us, we have been buying a lot of time to reboot and jump start our modernization program. We just need to quicken our pace, invest more money. I would practically like to cut pork barrels from congressmen and place them all to fund our modernization. With each time passing we lose precious opportunity so there is no time to just sleaze around and just get on it. :okay:

At the end of the day, China will not want to attack us. Because no matter how arrogant they are, even lunatics know common sense to say the least. :lol:

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 08:48 AM

Remember when Anonymous hacked their websites they are implying that the commies has no common sense:ohno:
these pirates has done it before and they will do it again. first the paracels massacre of the VN marines, then the permanent squatting of the mischief reef, so we are absolutely clear based on their lunatic behavior that commies will not do it in panatag? when panatag falls, so is the kalayaan because we cannot cross to that area anymore they have completely blocked our access in the WPS,..:ohno:

At the end of the day, China will not want to attack us. Because no matter how arrogant they are, even lunatics know common sense to say the least. :lol:[/QUOTE]

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 08:57 AM

So how about this, i'll cite examples why we need MRFs now, as in ASAP,..
A month or two ago the AFP/DND is salivating for the F-16s they even want 24 F-16's do you think they are not serious in their objective? If our pilots cannot handle well these advance fighters what the heck why they are crying out loud to the US to have the F-16s transferred into our PAF? Or they are just simply live up to their namesake as inutile?:nuts:

Then, they realized that we don't have enough qualified pilots out there to handle them.

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 09:18 AM

PAF pilot training is not a factor anymore if you noticed in below videos of of fighter pilots handling a lowly jet trainer "shooting down" two WARTHOGS is quite impressive, what's more if they are handling an advanced fighter? many of our pilots have enough experience already they already outgrow the training stages. these "ACES" can be called and deploy to dispatch BOOGIES in the WPS,..:cheers:

SISIW, PARANG COMBAT SIMULATION VIDEO GAMES LANG, NAALALA KO TULOY YUNG A10 SA LOCK ON, AT NASIRA PA FORCE FEEDBACK JOYSTICK KO,..:lol:

They're both subsonic aircrafts. The game changes when they fly supersonic aircrafts as the physics of flying dramatically changes that again and again spells a big difference between the life and death of our pilots. :lol:

Manila-X

June 24th, 2012, 09:20 AM

LIFT first and proper training!

If not and once we buy our MRFs this will happen!

4iToQ2FykoI

Lithiumite

June 24th, 2012, 09:20 AM

Saaad, it is getting more serious.

1 Pinoy dead, 4 missing as Chinese vessel rams into boat

MANILA, Philippines (UPDATED) – A Filipino died while four of his colleagues remain missing after a Chinese vessel allegedly rammed into their boat in Bolinao, Pangasinan last June 20, the National Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Council said.

The boat’s owner received an alert from its operator that a Chinese vessel bumped into their boat, which was then anchored to a “payaw,” or fish sanctuary.

One, only identified as "Christopher" was rescued but eventually died at an Ilocos Sur hospital. Three of his colleagues are still at the Gabriela Silang General Hospital.

Still reported missing are: Fred Celino, Arnold Garcia, Domy delos Santos and Amante Resonable.

NDRRMC said rescue operations are now underway to find the missing fishermen.

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/regions/06/24/12/4-pinoys-missing-chinese-vessel-rams-boat

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 09:26 AM

They're both subsonic aircrafts. The game changes when they fly supersonic aircrafts as the physics of flying dramatically changes that again and again spells a big difference between the life and death of our pilots. :lol:

warthogs are one of the most advance in terms of design, avionics, maneuverability, and armaments like the MRFs but its role is different cas does not require supersonic speeds thus speed of the aircraft can be well handled by our experienced pilots,..

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 09:27 AM

Then, they realized that we don't have enough qualified pilots out there to handle them.

are you serious?that's preposterous,..:lol:di nila alam capability nila as AFP/PAF?they must be all jokers!!!:lol:

kenken94

June 24th, 2012, 09:27 AM

^^ Does that incident have anything to do with our current conflict with China? Is that a ground for declaring a 'state of war'? Hope not but if it really is then we'll have no better alternative but get things on. :ohno:

Manila-X

June 24th, 2012, 09:31 AM

Real Air Force At Last
Plain View
By ATTY. ROMEO V. PEFIANCO
June 22, 2012, 9:02pm

(Editor’s note: Our Air Force is now gaining more force in lieu of air. The Jordanian journalist can mislead the whole world why banditry prevails in Mindanao, as noted by the author.)

http://mb.com.ph/articles/363137/real-air-force-at-last

MANILA, Philippines --- In the late 1950s up to about the mid-1960s, jet planes of PAF took to the skies in yearly air shows in summer. The “Blue Diamonds” squadron thrilled thousands at Villamor Air Base, who marveled at the skill of Filipino jet pilots. The base itself is named after Captain Jesus Villamor, the first Filipino air hero who fought Japan’s air might in December, 1941. General Douglas MacArthur conferred on Villamor the Distinguished Service Cross, America’s second highest medal.

Deterioration

PAF started to deteriorate in the 1970s during the insurgency in Mindanao. In the last coup against the Cory government in 1989, it took a US Phantom jet from Clark to let the coup plotters and fighters know whose side the US was carefully protecting. The coup melted and was quietly defeated by the AFP.

Fit for disposal

This week, COA said in its 2010 report about PAF: “The Air Force virtually has a non-existent air deterrent capability due to its aging air assets.” As of 2010, most aircraft/planes were either inactive or fit for disposal.

Protecting our claim

We badly need jet fighters to patrol our long coastline. Jet fighters may visit the disputed shoal where China’s fighter plane was reportedly seen over the area this month. This is no threat to start a dog fight, but would show our active interest to protect what is concededly ours for a long period before 2012.

If we don’t persist in protecting our claim, the other party may assume that the shoal is getting less attention for ownership to prescribe.

More jet fighters/helicopters

Next year, PAF will buy 12 fighter jets costing R1.2 B each and six fixed-wing aircraft from suppliers in South Korea, Italy, UK, and Russia. The six aircraft will boost the government’s counter-insurgency campaign in Mindanao. All told, before 2016, PAF expects to add: Six surface attack aircraft and fighter trainers, long-range patrol plane, a special mission aircraft, and one air-defense radar.

Four brand-new combat utility helicopters are expected to arrive in November. The first four Sokol helicopters were delivered last February. The eight helicopters cost R2.8 B, including support equipment, spare parts, and training.

Journalist/adventurer

War-front correspondents are not a rare breed. Some of them join troops moving in all directions. But the Jordanian journalist and two Filipino cameramen are not observers in a raging war, but journeyed to Sulu in search of adventure. The cameramen’s disappearance brought extreme anxiety to their families when told they disappeared in the mountains of Sulu.

Chilling effect on tourism

If they can shoot pictures of bearded Abu Sayaff guerrillas in uniform and carrying modern automatic weapons, they can easily sell the photos to foreign TV and newspapers. The chilling effect on our tourism trade is definitely negative, when Muslim guerrillas freely move around. Foreigners, like Australians, Europeans, etc., don’t distinguish the difference between Sulu and Palawan’s northern islands as favorites of tourists.

Freedom fighters

Another test is this: The Jordanian, to sell his report with pictures, will tell the whole world that the Abus are not bandits nor are they engaged in kidnapping with ransom. He will tell his readers that the Abus are freedom fighers but were ignored in their struggle for recognition.

Worse, the Jordanian is free to tell the whole world that the Manila government is driving the Abus crazy to the rain forest as innocent militants asking for land reform. But the government recognized their fellow Muslims in the MILF as peaceful negotiators seeking power-sharing and a partition of the national territory.

Distortions

Distortions of facts and aspirations will prove more attractive than the whole truth, like the country is not a good state for not helping the poor more than it helped the rich. This can mislead Muslim states in the Middle East where Filipino OFWs, by the thousands, still defy the government’s travel ban for employment.

If the Jordanian journalist is a subject of deportation, our country will suffer more from the backlash of sensationalism that freedom of expression has been suppressed by the Manila government.

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 09:36 AM

LIFT first and proper training!

If not and once we buy our MRFs this will happen!

4iToQ2FykoI

there's a bug on that plane, if you do aerobatics and demo, i'll make sure i'll choose the best pilot (that guy is no noob he knows when to abandon a problematic plane gone haywire) and i think this is the early releases of gripen (intro is 1997), still buggy so we will expect the same with the TA-50s,..:ohno:

d7beast

June 24th, 2012, 09:38 AM

We have to thank China for intruding in our claimed shoals because if it wasn't for this, modernizing our armed forces would not be a priority as it is today.

Casiño does not know what he is talking about. Using the budget to help the poor instead of modernizing our armed forces. The government has done enough to help the needy but the poor should also help themselves.

but the irony of it is that it's the second time around,..:ohno:

Tan Tararan

June 24th, 2012, 09:58 AM

Bahay_Kubo

June 24th, 2012, 10:11 AM

Chinese ship 'accidentally rams' Philippines boat (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gmOO50fvxxDAHohA97XyWJA891bQ?docId=CNG.ef7ccdf6cbe1dd716faf7825110a9eac.8f1)
(AFP) – 30 minutes ago

MANILA — The Philippines alleged on Sunday that a Chinese vessel accidentally rammed a local fishing boat north of a disputed South China Sea shoal, killing one and leaving four others missing.

The fishing boat set out from the northern coastal town of Bolinao, in Pangasinan province, last Monday and was reported to have sunk two days later, Office of Civil Defence chief Benito Ramos told AFP.

"Of the eight fishermen aboard, four were plucked out of sea only yesterday, but one of them died in a hospital," Ramos said. "Four more are still missing."

The rescued fishermen told authorities they believed the vessel which collided with their boat was Chinese, Ramos said, though this could not be independently verified.
Chinese embassy officials were not available for comment on Sunday.

Ramos said the incident occurred north of Scarborough Shoal where the Philippines and China have been engaged in a tense stand off since April.

"It's north of the Scarborough, though we could not determine how far in terms of distance or nautical miles," he said.

President Benigno Aquino earlier this month ordered two Philippine ships to pull out from the shoal during bad weather, a move that the Chinese said calmed tensions in the area.

While China said it would also ask its fishermen to leave the area, it stressed it had no intention of pulling out its bigger ships from there.

As of last week, there were still seven Chinese ships at the shoal, according to the Philippines foreign ministry.

The dispute began in April after Chinese government vessels blocked Philippine ships from arresting Chinese fishermen near the shoal.

Since then, both countries have maintained ships there to press their respective claims to the area.

China claims nearly all of the South China Sea, even waters close to the coasts of neighbouring countries. The Philippines says the shoal is well within its 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone.

The shoal sits about 230 kilometres (140 miles) from the Philippines' main island of Luzon. The nearest major Chinese landmass is 1,200 kilometres northwest of the shoal, according to Philippine navy maps.

Christian_123

June 24th, 2012, 11:14 AM

^^They can use that case to further strengthen our stand against china when we finally file it to the ITCLOS. China is clearly a BS country at its best.

M46Fr3D

June 24th, 2012, 12:02 PM

davidheathe

June 24th, 2012, 02:25 PM

has anyone read the Syrian downing of a Turkey fighter jet?

when NATO's hand seemed tied down and cannot interfere in Syria a Turkish plane made the so-called mistake of entering syrian space and was immediately sent to pieces. it is so coincidental if you aske me. lol

and an attack on any NATO member state is an attack on NATO itself. from what i understand, the syrian president is now on his way out should NATO bombs syria. and when syrian opposition claims victory, syrians would send russian naval base packing back to russia.

the white man truly has mastered the art of war.

davidheathe

June 24th, 2012, 02:30 PM

i think as early as now russia and china should find an exit strategy in syria.

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 03:28 PM

are you serious?that's preposterous,..:lol:di nila alam capability nila as AFP/PAF?they must be all jokers!!!:lol:

Apparently they only know their limits because they haven't flown any supersonic jets in ages.

warthogs are one of the most advance in terms of design, avionics, maneuverability, and armaments like the MRFs but its role is different cas does not require supersonic speeds thus speed of the aircraft can be well handled by our experienced pilots,..

Yes, but the physics of supersonics is different than subsonics. The pilots needs to further understand it by using advanced trainer seats available to minimize accidents. Again, it can spell difference between life and death. ;)

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 03:35 PM

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 03:38 PM

^^Ito na yung epekto ng pagaantay mg hanggang Hulyo para pirmahan yang mga lintek na kasunduan na yan para sa pagbili ng mga kagamitan. Kayong mga nasa gobyerno, wag kayo papayag na di nadadala pa Pinas yang mga putangingang intsik na may sala at pugutan sa harap ng publiko. Ilang Pinoy pa ang hahayaan nyong mamatay? Abay kilos na!!

Dapat hindi na inaantay yan. They should already know what to get and get them fast. After 20 years of doing nothing, they still procrastinate? It's just plain ridiculous. :bash::bash:

Maxxclip

June 24th, 2012, 03:41 PM

^^

sabi ni Jordan "some people want it to happen, some wish it would happen, others make it happen."

Beam Magnum

June 24th, 2012, 04:36 PM

Imagine that 300 billion dollars funds for modernization is completely vanish like a magic thanks to those high thinker faggots.

I just hope the DND and PAF made a good and absolute clear for acquiring a true meaning MRF in the future and establish a jet repair plant as a back up plan in case of damage. Lets us hope those guys fix it and scrap the old system and reform a new command structure from the pesty corrupt scums once and for all.

Arvor

June 24th, 2012, 05:08 PM

The shoal sits about 230 kilometres (140 miles) from the Philippines' main island of Luzon. The nearest major Chinese landmass is 1,200 kilometres northwest of the shoal, according to Philippine navy maps.

As i wrote earlier there is no need to rush mrf's due to geography Scarborough shoal is so close to Phillippine territory that we can easily interdict access to it by simply developing military capability .

The shoal is located 240 km off the coast of Luzon while mrf's are ill suited to keep an "eye" or to protect the area due to their lack of persistance and the need to mind the cost of keeping an eye there, when the US project to help install a coast watch and radar is complete the afp will be able to see everything that goes on there without having to have mrf's .

The second part would simply be to instal land based anti ship missiles like the Swedish SAAB RBS15 missile which has the range to cover and destroy any vessel in the vicinity of the shoal .

Anti ship missiles and later on submarines are more useful in protecting territorial waters than mrf's, even drone planes like the MQ9 Reapers would be more useful than mrf's in protecting territorial waters than mrf's due to their persistence capability, those who keep on yapping about mrf's don't know squat about military matters .

The military must continue to develop itself in a professional manner slowly but surely in a step by step basis to ensure proper defence of the country any other idea's would lead to failure .

lU4r31zkjCM

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/markec_2008/686px-MOL_-_mobilni_obalni_lanser_2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/markec_2008/686px-MOL_-_mobilni_obalni_lanser_2.jpg

RBS15 anti ship missiles can sink any vessel in Scarborough shoal even from land based platforms at a fraction of the cost all you need is a truck and some diesel to drive it to the location along the coast .

Radar + Coast watch + RBS15 = interdiction on Scarborough shoal and there is nothing the Chinese can do about it except attack the launcher on the mainland which is definetely covered by the MDT so it would never happen unless they wanted to get blasted to the stoneage by the US, while aircrafts flying beyond clear territorial airspace can be engaged as they wouldn't be covered by MDT .

Beam Magnum

June 24th, 2012, 05:18 PM

Arvor

June 24th, 2012, 05:46 PM

has anyone read the Syrian downing of a Turkey fighter jet?

Yeah Syria is pissing itself now, this could be the excuse Nato needed to finally take them out without requiring a UN resolution bypassing Russia and China's attempts to block action but conventions regarding proportionality when responding could water down any possible action .

http://www.todayheads.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/b1dc8___61094872_turkey_syria_map464.gif

Turkey has called a meeting of Nato member states to discuss its response to the shooting down of one of its warplanes by Syrian forces on Friday.

Ankara has invoked Article 4 of Nato's charter, under which consultations can be requested when an ally feels their security is threatened, officials say.

Earlier, Turkey's foreign minister said the F-4 Phantom was in international airspace when it was shot down.

Syria has insisted the jet was engaged while it was inside its airspace.

It has also said no act of hostility was intended, noting that as soon as the military discovered the "unidentified" aircraft was Turkish its navy joined efforts to rescue the two crew members.

The Turkish foreign ministry said it knew the coordinates of the jet, which was in Syrian territorial waters at a depth of 1,300m (4,265ft), but has not yet found it.

The coast guard is still searching for the crew in the Mediterranean Sea, though hopes are fading of them being found alive.

Nato spokeswoman Oana Lungescu said the North Atlantic Council, the principal political decision-making body within the military alliance, would meet in Brussels on Tuesday to discuss the incident.

"Turkey has requested consultations under Article 4 of Nato's founding Washington Treaty," she told Reuters.

"Under article 4, any ally can request consultations whenever, in the opinion of any of them, their territorial integrity, political independence or security is threatened."

Turkey wants to be sure of the strongest backing once it decides its official response, reports the BBC's Jonathan Head in Istanbul.

The government has promised that it will be strong, decisive and legitimate, and that it will share all the information it has with the public.

Earlier, Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu became the first senior Turkish official to challenge Syria's account of the downing of the jet.

After lengthy meetings with military chiefs, he told TRT state television that the unarmed jet had "momentarily" entered Syrian airspace by mistake on Friday but had left when it was shot down 15 minutes later.

"According to our conclusions, our plane was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles (24km) from Syria," he said.

According to international law, a country's airspace extends 12 nautical miles (22.2km) from its coastline, corresponding with its territorial waters.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18568207

With regards to Scarborough this also shows the potential cost of losing both aircraft and pilots using jet's which can be shot down, land based anti ship missiles are unmanned and are cheap compared to jet's providing a rather safe means of interdicting foreign vessels off our coasts .

TheAvenger

June 24th, 2012, 05:56 PM

TheAvenger

June 24th, 2012, 05:58 PM

Chinese fishing boat rams the Japan Coast Guard's ship

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv031K_lV4I

Chinese Fishing Boat 'Intentionally' Rams South Korean Coast Guard, At Least 1 Dead

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-12-18/news/30026601_1_guard-ship-south-korean-coast-guard-chinese-fishermen

TheAvenger

June 24th, 2012, 05:58 PM

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Jewel865/aparritomanilabay.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Jewel865/abolinao001.jpg

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 06:35 PM

As i wrote earlier there is no need to rush mrf's due to geography Scarborough shoal is so close to Phillippine territory that we can easily interdict access to it by simply developing military capability .

The shoal is located 240 km off the coast of Luzon while mrf's are ill suited to keep an "eye" or to protect the area due to their lack of persistance and the need to mind the cost of keeping an eye there, when the US project to help install a coast watch and radar is complete the afp will be able to see everything that goes on there without having to have mrf's .

The second part would simply be to instal land based anti ship missiles like the Swedish SAAB RBS15 missile which has the range to cover and destroy any vessel in the vicinity of the shoal .

Anti ship missiles and later on submarines are more useful in protecting territorial waters than mrf's, even drone planes like the MQ9 Reapers would be more useful than mrf's in protecting territorial waters than mrf's due to their persistence capability, those who keep on yapping about mrf's don't know squat about military matters .

The military must continue to develop itself in a professional manner slowly but surely in a step by step basis to ensure proper defence of the country any other idea's would lead to failure .

lU4r31zkjCM

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/markec_2008/686px-MOL_-_mobilni_obalni_lanser_2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/markec_2008/686px-MOL_-_mobilni_obalni_lanser_2.jpg

RBS15 anti ship missiles can sink any vessel in Scarborough shoal even from land based platforms at a fraction of the cost all you need is a truck and some diesel to drive it to the location along the coast .

Radar + Coast watch + RBS15 = interdiction on Scarborough shoal and there is nothing the Chinese can do about it except attack the launcher on the mainland which is definetely covered by the MDT so it would never happen unless they wanted to get blasted to the stoneage by the US, while aircrafts flying beyond clear territorial airspace can be engaged as they wouldn't be covered by MDT .

The Angry birds can do a better job. :lol::lol:

2BqfjGDsHUs

Arvor

June 24th, 2012, 07:32 PM

If the AFP ever acquire land based RBS15's or anti ship missile batteries they could call the unit "The Angry Birds" lol .

Mr Grey

June 24th, 2012, 07:41 PM

MANILA, Philippines—

The Philippines alleged on Sunday that a Chinese vessel accidentally rammed a local fishing boat north of a disputed West Philippine (South China ) Sea shoal, killing one and leaving four others missing.
The fishing boat set out from the northern coastal town of Bolinao, in Pangasinan province, last Monday and was reported to have sunk two days later, Office of Civil Defense chief Benito Ramos told AFP.
“Of the eight fishermen aboard, four were plucked out of sea only yesterday, but one of them died in a hospital,” Ramos said on Sunday. “Four more are still missing.”

The Philippine fishing boat was anchored in a “payaw,” or artificial fish sanctuary, according to the National Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Council, which identified the four missing fishermen as Edimio Balmores, Herman Balmores, Celino Damian and a certain Christopher.
The owner of the fishing boat Axl John received a call from the boat operator, who reported the incident, the NDRRMC said.
The rescued fishermen—who were treated at the Gabriela Silang General Hospital in Vigan City, Ilocos Sur—told authorities they believed the vessel that collided with their boat was Chinese, Ramos said, though this could not be independently verified.
Chinese embassy officials were not available for comment on Sunday.
Ramos said the incident occurred north of Scarborough Shoal where the Philippines and China have been engaged in a tense standoff since April.
“It’s north of the Scarborough, though we could not determine how far in terms of distance or nautical miles,” he said.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/217833/4-missing-as-chinese-vessel-hits-fishing-boat-in-pangasinan

This is no accident, This is outrage!!!!! those are not ordinary fishing vessels those are fishing ships being used by China's Military to harass and kill our Filipino Fishermens, I do not care about the leftist in our country hell for all i know they should all be condemned to death. This is the time we should show our patriotism by throwing stones on all this communist KMU/Anakbayan etc. so they would know the true sentiment of the country. We should really get US on our side give them bases else what to do with the intrusions? even with new jets and ships we will never out win China by our own. China can only be defeated by US and US alone else US fails we are going to go in a bad light. I feel bad for the first casually of this silent war. May he rest it peace.

Also I am disappointed with some of the forumers in this thread how come we are debating too much and are more busy on what planes to buy? Is this not enough? Aquino is doing his best. I know the choice FA - 50 is not the best but given our immediate needs to patrol and control our sovereignty I believe this would be make good for this moment. This jets will only serve as deterrents for the mean time, but getting US to signing for new bases would really put a halt on this Chinese fuckers from intruding.

TheAvenger

June 24th, 2012, 07:49 PM

This is no accident, This is outrage!!!!! those are not ordinary fishing vessels those are fishing ships being used by China's Military to harass and kill our Filipino Fishermens, I do not care about the leftist in our country hell for all i know they should all be condemned to death. This is the time we should show our patriotism by throwing stones on all this communist KMU/Anakbayan etc. so they would know the true sentiment of the country. We should really get US on our side give them bases else what to do with the intrusions? even with new jets and ships we will never out win China by our own. China can only be defeated by US and US alone else US fails we are going to go in a bad light. I feel bad for the first casually of this silent war.

I got a feeling that the Chinese boat ramming our fishing boat in the sea west of Pangasinan is intentional and they want to provoke our military to shoot them so that the Chinese military have the pretext to get involved.

I reckoned that the best way now is to make a nationwide boycott of PRC Chinese products. For our exports to China, we have to look for other markets.

For OFW in Hongkong and China mainland, we must be ready to accept their return, at the same time we have to deport to China all the overstaying and illegal Chinese citizens.

915bungohunter

June 24th, 2012, 07:55 PM

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Jewel865/aparritomanilabay.jpg

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii560/Jewel865/abolinao001.jpg
madalas ako dati sa lugar na yan...anak talaga ng pinagong tong mga insektong intsik na to..:bash::lol:Pati ba naman dyan naghaharian sila. So meaning to say pati mga chinese fishing vessel magmamalaki na pwede nilang banggain ang mga mangingisdang pinoy...KASI WALA TAYO MAGAGAWA...:bash::nuts: Maghahariarian mga yan..

Lintik na chinese na yan pag dyan sila napunta at mag sisigasiga at aroganteng turista ang sarap pukpukin ng bote ng empi..:bash:

Mr Grey

June 24th, 2012, 08:11 PM

I got a feeling that the Chinese boat ramming our fishing boat in the sea west of Pangasinan is intentional and they want to provoke our military to shoot them so that the Chinese military have the pretext to get involved.

I reckoned that the best way now is to make a nationwide boycott of PRC Chinese products. For our exports to China, we have to look for other markets.

For OFW in Hongkong and China mainland, we must be ready to accept their return, at the same time we have to deport to China all the overstaying and illegal Chinese citizens.

We can never out win them in anyway, If all of you guys are really serious in protecting of shores and seas the only way to doing this is with the Americans. We are already being shove to the sides our ships running amok on the shores. Grant US bases especially Naval bases far from our mainland luzon if should be, immediately so they can deflect the Chinese vessels back. Also we should ask America to take note of this situations this is not ordinary and ask them for a mutual treaty to guard our seas. like what other countries (countries that do not have military) are doing.

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 08:28 PM

madalas ako dati sa lugar na yan...anak talaga ng pinagong tong mga insektong intsik na to..:bash::lol:Pati ba naman dyan naghaharian sila. So meaning to say pati mga chinese fishing vessel magmamalaki na pwede nilang banggain ang mga mangingisdang pinoy...KASI WALA TAYO MAGAGAWA...:bash::nuts: Maghahariarian mga yan..

Lintik na chinese na yan pag dyan sila napunta at mag sisigasiga at aroganteng turista ang sarap pukpukin ng bote ng empi..:bash:

What can be done is get more coast guard boats to patrol the areas extensively and armed our coasts with missiles and radar systems for now also dapat mag handa na rin tayo. Dapat palakasin natin koneksyon natin sa mga allies at isama rin natin ang ASEAN.

Nabartek

June 24th, 2012, 09:23 PM

I got a feeling that the Chinese boat ramming our fishing boat in the sea west of Pangasinan is intentional and they want to provoke our military to shoot them so that the Chinese military have the pretext to get involved.

I reckoned that the best way now is to make a nationwide boycott of PRC Chinese products. For our exports to China, we have to look for other markets.

For OFW in Hongkong and China mainland, we must be ready to accept their return, at the same time we have to deport to China all the overstaying and illegal Chinese citizens.

It is! Have you ever wondered that Chinese ships always ram countries it has territorial disputes with? The funniest was that with Japan wher ethe JCG even caught the Chinese vessel slamming itself on a bigger ship!

I think Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines should file a joint complain in the international courts regarding and demanding investigation on these "accidental rammings"

This is too much!.

Edit: from Avengers images, looks like the incident was near Pangasinan? I say let the US Navy dock in Pangasinan. I suspect the reason why they did not pull this stint near Zamabales is because it is used by the US Navy as docking point.

Arvor

June 24th, 2012, 09:42 PM

Just be patient things will improve with the new radar and coastwatch system and other developments, don't let them rattle your nerves they will tease us and test us but time is on our side we will ultimately get stronger and overcome them .

The Phillippines will in 30 years or so become one of the top 15 largest economies in the world the recto bank holds trillions of $ worth of ressources and the Chinese know this and they rightly fear our eventual development of this ressource as it has the power to transform the RP into a formidable force in the region, which is why they have said that they needed to take advantage of what they call a "window" of opportunity as they know quite well that the balance of power will gradually shift .

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 10:26 PM

Just be patient things will improve with the new radar and coastwatch system and other developments, don't let them rattle your nerves they will tease us and test us but time is on our side we will ultimately get stronger and overcome them .

The Phillippines will in 30 years or so become one of the top 15 largest economies in the world the recto bank holds trillions of $ worth of ressources and the Chinese know this and they rightly fear our eventual development of this ressource as it has the power to transform us into a formidable force in the region, which is why they have said that they needed to take advantage of what they call a "window" of opportunity as they know quite well that the balance of power will gradually shift .

Naku, sana nga. True, we should keep our heads cool. The pirates are testing how far they can go. This is nothing compared to what took place in Paracel. They are careful not to wake Papa sugar up. :lol:

Askal82

June 24th, 2012, 10:28 PM

It is! Have you ever wondered that Chinese ships always ram countries it has territorial disputes with? The funniest was that with Japan wher ethe JCG even caught the Chinese vessel slamming itself on a bigger ship!

I think Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines should file a joint complain in the international courts regarding and demanding investigation on these "accidental rammings"

This is too much!.

Edit: from Avengers images, looks like the incident was near Pangasinan? I say let the US Navy dock in Pangasinan. I suspect the reason why they did not pull this stint near Zamabales is because it is used by the US Navy as docking point.

Aksidente, ano yan highway? Lapad kaya ng dagat.:lol:

Oh itlos, sa gabing madilim. :lol:

Inis sila kasi wala silang kwenta sa atin at wala din naman silang mapapala sa atin di tulad ng mga kauri ni gulay doon sa ASEAN. Tapos accuse nila eh, sinisiraan daw natin sila sa ASEAN because of their own despicable actions. Mga ulol talaga. :lol:

On the other hand, tuloy pa rin ang tsismis.

M46Fr3D

June 24th, 2012, 11:53 PM

TheAvenger

June 25th, 2012, 12:09 AM

A Chinese vessel last week rammed a Philippine fishing boat north of the disputed Scarborough Shoal in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea), killing a Filipino fisherman and leaving four others missing.

Executive Director Benito Ramos of the National Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Council (NDRRMC) on Sunday said the Chinese vessel might have intentionally hit the fishing boat AXL John on Wednesday, but the vessel did nothing to help the fishermen.

“They did not [help],” Ramos said. “That’s why it’s suspicious. If it was accidental, then they should have helped.”

The AXL John may have been the first casualty in the dispute between China and the Philippines over Scarborough Shoal. Manila refers to the area as Panatag Shoal and Bajo de Masinloc.

The state-owned China News Agency (CNA) reported on Saturday that a Chinese official had ordered navy ships to target “Filipino vessels that hang around” Scarborough Shoal “and don’t leave.”

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/41229/chinese-ship-rams-philippine-fish-boat-1-dead

Nabartek

June 25th, 2012, 12:18 AM

^^ lol. It was around pangasinan not zambales... Freaking liars

Say that the fishermen were indeed in panatag, why dis they sunk it rather than arrest them.

Logicless chinese media again.

The chinese are giving us s reason for suing for human rights violation

Hindi na gollum tong china... Eye of mordor na

d7beast

June 25th, 2012, 01:28 AM

As i wrote earlier there is no need to rush mrf's due to geography Scarborough shoal is so close to Phillippine territory that we can easily interdict access to it by simply developing military capability .

The shoal is located 240 km off the coast of Luzon while mrf's are ill suited to keep an "eye" or to protect the area due to their lack of persistance and the need to mind the cost of keeping an eye there, when the US project to help install a coast watch and radar is complete the afp will be able to see everything that goes on there without having to have mrf's .

The second part would simply be to instal land based anti ship missiles like the Swedish SAAB RBS15 missile which has the range to cover and destroy any vessel in the vicinity of the shoal .

Anti ship missiles and later on submarines are more useful in protecting territorial waters than mrf's, even drone planes like the MQ9 Reapers would be more useful than mrf's in protecting territorial waters than mrf's due to their persistence capability, those who keep on yapping about mrf's don't know squat about military matters .

The military must continue to develop itself in a professional manner slowly but surely in a step by step basis to ensure proper defence of the country any other idea's would lead to failure .

lU4r31zkjCM

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/markec_2008/686px-MOL_-_mobilni_obalni_lanser_2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/markec_2008/686px-MOL_-_mobilni_obalni_lanser_2.jpg

RBS15 anti ship missiles can sink any vessel in Scarborough shoal even from land based platforms at a fraction of the cost all you need is a truck and some diesel to drive it to the location along the coast .

Radar + Coast watch + RBS15 = interdiction on Scarborough shoal and there is nothing the Chinese can do about it except attack the launcher on the mainland which is definetely covered by the MDT so it would never happen unless they wanted to get blasted to the stoneage by the US, while aircrafts flying beyond clear territorial airspace can be engaged as they wouldn't be covered by MDT .

this is a good idea also but we need to establish our presence there if not by sea which our naval ships is of a very disadvantage compared to the commies, MRFs will make it happen ships are at the mercy of its presence in the area it will torment the commies naval power. These mobile ASM and AAM is good during the actual confrontation. while our castrated naval ships anchors our physical claim on WPS, air superiority will solidify our presence.

jpdm

June 25th, 2012, 01:33 AM

lU4r31zkjCM

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/markec_2008/686px-MOL_-_mobilni_obalni_lanser_2.jpg
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/markec_2008/686px-MOL_-_mobilni_obalni_lanser_2.jpg

RBS15 anti ship missiles can sink any vessel in Scarborough shoal even from land based platforms at a fraction of the cost all you need is a truck and some diesel to drive it to the location along the coast .

Been suggesting this type of armament because they are cheaper and also very effective.

d7beast

June 25th, 2012, 01:34 AM

Brilliant plan.^^

Hey Beast how about they chose PAK FA T-50 of US$47.5–57 instead buying TA-50 of US$25 million or FA-50 of US$30 million? Konti deperensya lang ng cost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA

russian aircraft technology is a good alternative, the plane is nowhere near its production stage after the fall of USSR so is the budget of the KGB which one of its task is to stole western technologies. now i think they have to get that missing link so that the plane can be put side by side at same league as the 5th gen fighters of US. same with the commies j-shit stealth all are mock ups.

Askal82

June 25th, 2012, 03:09 AM

Now they are testing our determination of being on a defensive mode by provoking us. This is not accidental as we all know that China had been doing this to ships of other countries.

Lets sink their ships when we see one and claim its accidental.

Kung may SAM tayo, i test fire yun sa kanila tapos palabasin aksidente rin yun. Pag nag-react, its show time! :lol::lol:

Beam Magnum

June 25th, 2012, 03:13 AM

Pay more for using military base: India to Singapore

Arguing that maintenance costs have gone up, India has asked Singapore to cough up more money for using its military base for the advanced training of Singapore Air Force personnel. The two countries are racing against time to complete negotiations for renewing the lease agreement on a long-term basis, with Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong scheduled to arrive in India in the second week of July.

http://newindianexpress.com/nation/article549595.ece

Lilyr

June 25th, 2012, 03:19 AM

Hmm...They don't like to prioritize the budget for AFP yet they also don't want alliances? Anong kayang gusto nila?:lol:

Reject PH-Australia pact, Senate urged

Philippine Daily Inquirer (http://opinion.inquirer.net/source/philippine-daily-inquirer) 1:49 am | Monday, June 25th, 2012
share11 1

The Philippines-Australia military deal, known as the Status of Visiting Forces Agreement (Sovfa), has been postponed until late July for final ratification by the Senate (Inquirer, 6/11/12). The Sovfa, as with the US VFA, enables Australian troops to conduct military exercises in the Philippines.
Seven senators voted against it on the day it was brought for ratification, but 13 senators of the 21 present supported it. Three more votes are needed for the required two-thirds of Senate membership to ratify the Sovfa.
Australia is an important ally and a “junior partner” of the United States. Its engagement in Afghanistan is just the latest in a long line of US-led wars of aggression that Australia has signed up to, which includes Iraq (twice), Somalia, Vietnam and Korea. In the South Pacific, Australia is a regional economic power and its powerful mining corporations operate with impunity and little regard for local indigenous communities, the workers or the environment.
The Australia-US military alliance has shifted into high gear along with the US shift to increased militarization of Asia-Pacific. Australia has allowed 250 US marines to be stationed in Darwin this year, increasing to 2,500 by 2016.
The Sovfa should be scrutinized for its potential violation of Philippine sovereignty, as well as the social and environmental costs of having foreign troops conducting prolonged military operations in our country. The Sovfa and the US VFA are similar in many aspects. The Philippines cannot exercise primary jurisdiction on a criminal case if the Australian side claims that an action was carried out in performance of an “official duty.” Unlike the US VFA, however, the Philippines apparently has the final say on whether an action falls under “official duty.”
But the trial of US Marines accused of raping a Filipino woman in November 2005 is a case in point. A Philippine court found one US Marine guilty and ordered him imprisoned in a Philippine jail. US and Philippine authorities invoked the VFA’s provisions to defy the judge’s order. The convicted rapist was promptly spirited out of the Philippine jail and put in a cell inside the US embassy in Manila. This is clearly a case of outright violation of our own laws. We have no reason to believe that the experience will be any different under the Australian Sovfa.
The Philippine government’s support for the Sovfa is part and parcel of its support for US strategic interests in the region, under the misguided view that this coincides with our national interests. But the government best serves the national interests by pursuing an independent foreign policy in keeping with the Constitution. The Senate must realize this and vote to reject Sovfa.
—REI MELENCIO,
international desk,
Partido Lakas ng Masa,

Beam Magnum

June 25th, 2012, 03:32 AM

^^
Those retarded Senators got no brains at all.:bash: They expecting like Okinawa rape case by 3 Marine with there huge rocket.

Mr Grey

June 25th, 2012, 03:37 AM

Hmm...They don't like to prioritize the budget for AFP yet they also don't want alliances? Anong kayang gusto nila?:lol:

The politicians are playing us like kings selling us out by their numbers, seriously speaking stupidity kills the cat but in this senario its us who are being sacrificed the poor people of the philippines who can not even fly to other countries in case a war breaks out. Also the politicians should not heed to the noise being created by the patrylist and the church this is the only way we could protect our land, airspace and seas.

El_Toro

June 25th, 2012, 03:48 AM

ano na ba naging investigation about dun sa chinese boat na nagram sa fishermans boat?

Askal82

June 25th, 2012, 03:58 AM

Hmm...They don't like to prioritize the budget for AFP yet they also don't want alliances? Anong kayang gusto nila?:lol:

Someone's priorities have their heads up their a$$. They'll be the first ones to hide when hell breaks lose.

Askal82

June 25th, 2012, 04:00 AM

ano na ba naging investigation about dun sa chinese boat na nagram sa fishermans boat?

Ayun, itanong mo sa Akbayan, Bayan Muna, party lists.

Arvor

June 25th, 2012, 04:07 AM

Been suggesting this type of armament because they are cheaper and also very effective.

Yeah for the cost of 1 F16 or Gripen we could have 8 sets of one truck with 4 RBS15 MK3 missiles each .

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6466337115_73a87488d3_z.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6466337115_73a87488d3_z.jpg

The navy can even board a truck onto one of these new home made tagbanua class lcu's and presto instant missile frigate ... .

Nabartek

June 25th, 2012, 04:13 AM

Ayun, itanong mo sa Akbayan, Bayan Muna, party lists.

ang tanong, if the senate decides to strike an MDT with China or VFA, will they slam it or praise it? :lol::lol::lol:

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 04:18 AM

The Chinese warships are armed with SAM and other modern air defense systems making air superiority futile.

[QUOTE=gmaer;92537662]

PNoy admin gives AFP modernization highest fund allotment, says official
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/262495/news/nation/pnoy-admin-gives-afp-modernization-highest-fund-allotment-says-official

How many squadron they need for the air defense in the north, center and south?

Additional question if they purchase of single fighter kasama yan lahat ng missiles and bombs (siguro hwag isama ng bomb).

You forgot the West side where Spratly is! :)

1 squadron = minimum of 12 fighter jets

Bombs are used for ground attack and are cheaper than air-to-surface missiles plus they create more devastation to mass targets because air-to-surface missiles are mostly used for destroying specific targets.

Alinghi

June 25th, 2012, 04:41 AM

a squadron each of LIFT's and MRF's would be enough for interim deterrence inn 5 years time.. while the rest should be developed into other capacity-building endeavors.

@Arvor: what is the range of those land-based SSM's? can they cover Scarborough or even beyond our EEZ? it's more cost-efficient than buying bloody expensive missile frigates

Beam Magnum

June 25th, 2012, 04:46 AM

Yeah for the cost of 1 F16 or Gripen we could have 8 sets of one truck with 4 RBS15 MK3 missiles each .

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6466337115_73a87488d3_z.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6466337115_73a87488d3_z.jpg

The navy can even board a truck onto one of these new home made tagbanua class lcu's and presto instant missile frigate ... .

Why Philippine shipbuilding is a mirage
http://marine-cafe.com/mcblog/?p=1064
Why not build a missile frigate at Hanjin heavy industry there are capable building better structure hull design?

waraywaray architect

June 25th, 2012, 04:56 AM

Having those trucks with missiles is not the same as having an aircraft and being able to intercept an intruder and see it. You cannot just fire missiles indiscriminately at any intruder or you risk of starting a war. An aircarft can fly and identify the intruder and then escort them out of the airspace. A truck simply cannot do that.

Wind Shear

June 25th, 2012, 04:58 AM

Arvor

June 25th, 2012, 05:02 AM

@Arvor: what is the range of those land-based SSM's? can they cover Scarborough or even beyond our EEZ? it's more cost-efficient than buying bloody expensive missile frigates

Well the SAAB RBS 15 MK3 can just about cover the Scarborough Shoals with a range of 250 km ..., they can basically reach up to say 10 kilometers west of the shoals and if extra batteries are placed along the coast then everything or the approaches to the north, east and south is covered and enough to create an effective killzone against large vessels, so at most wed have to deal with small motorboat or torpedo boat sized vessels but given the distance from China they would have a hard time maintaining such small craft in the area .

In this case our lift aircraft or our own small torpedo boats will have home turf advantage as they don't have to travel as far can deal with them, Luzon is basically an unsinkable Battleship/Carrier if fully developed .

Some Harpoon versions have 300 KM ranges .

Future versions of the RBS15 MK4 model would have greater ranges 400+ km .

----

I wonder that ship can withstand the force backblast VOOOSSHHH?

I don't see why not at most they may have to check the windows ability to withstand it but i think for the most part theoretically it should be able to withstand a firing but anyway it was just a what if idea, the main use would simply be to transport the truck/launcher to Pag Asa island in the Spratleys ... .

----

Having those trucks with missiles is not the same as having an aircraft and being able to intercept an intruder and see it. You cannot just fire missiles indiscriminately at any intruder or you risk of starting a war. An aircarft can fly and identify the intruder and then escort them out of the airspace. A truck simply cannot do that.

This is why the US primarily and Japan to an extent is helping us with a new radar and developing the "coast watch system", also the government has ordered or will order maritime surveillance planes or planes that can carry out such a role like the C212 aviocar .

Also the US has offered to have their P3 Orions fly over RP territory .

3cr

June 25th, 2012, 05:27 AM

Dang China/Chinese are bullying our fishermen. Better bring our naval ship(s) back in Panatag to protect our shoals and our fishermen from this commie bullies.

Chinese ship rams PH boat
Manila Times
http://www.manilatimes.net/index.php/opinion/editorials/25525-chinese-ship-rams-ph-boat

The Philippines alleged on Sunday that a Chinese vessel collided with a local fishing boat north of the disputed Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal, killing one and leaving four others missing.

The fishing boat set out from the northern coastal town of Bolinao, in Pangasinan province, on Monday and was reported to have sunk two days later, Office of Civil Defense chief Benito Ramos told Agence France-Presse.

“Of the eight fishermen aboard, four were plucked out of sea only yesterday, but one of them died in a hospital,” Ramos said. “Four more are still missing.”

The rescued fishermen told authorities that they believed the vessel, which collided with their boat was Chinese, Ramos said, though this could not be independently verified.

Chinese embassy officials were not available for comment on Sunday.

Ramos said the incident occurred north of the Panatag Shoal, over which the Philippines and China have been engaged in a tense stand off since April.

“It’s north of the Scarborough, though we could not determine how far in terms of distance or nautical miles,” he said.

President Benigno Aquino 3rd earlier this month ordered two Philippine ships to pull out from the shoal because of the bad weather, a move that the Chinese said calmed tensions in the area.

While China said it would also ask its fishermen to leave the area, it stressed it had no intention of pulling out its bigger ships from there.

As of last week, there were still seven Chinese ships at the shoal, according to the Department of Foreign Affairs.

The dispute began in April after Chinese government vessels blocked Philippine ships from arresting Chinese fishermen near the shoal.

Since then, both countries have maintained ships there to press their respective claims to the area.

China claims nearly all of the South China Sea, even waters close to the coasts of neighboring countries. The Philippines says the shoal is well within its 200-nautical-mile exclusive economic zone.

The shoal sits about 230 kilometers from the Philippines’ main island of Luzon. The nearest major Chinese landmass is 1,200km northwest of the shoal, according to Philippine Navy maps.

Latest Panatag Shoal skirmish draws outrage
Journal Online
http://www.journal.com.ph/index.php/news/top-stories/32645-latest-panatag-shoal-skirmish-draws-outrage

A GROUP of lawmakers said the international community should be alarmed on the incident that a Chinese vessel accidentally hit a Philippine fishing boat near the disputed Panatag Shoal, leaving one Filipino fisherman dead and four others missing.

House Assistant Majority Leader and Davao City Rep. Karlo Alexei Nograles said the whole world should not be complacent on the latest incident as he called on the Philippine authorities to make a deeper probe into what really happened.

He said while it is premature for the Philippine government to make a conclusion on what really happened to the fishermen whose boats were allegedly rammed by a Chinese vessel, the United Nations (UN) should take a look at this incident with utmost urgency.

“If this incident was deliberate and was sanctioned by the Chinese government, this is a clear act of aggression against another sovereign nation. This is an act of war,” said Nograles.

Bayan Muna party-list Rep. Neri Colmenares said the incident must “be carefully investigated and if true, we from Bayan Muna are calling on China to deescalate the situation and identify the ship responsible and surrender the crew or captain.”

“At the very least the Chinese crew violated the international law provision on the duty to assist when they left the Filipino fishermen without aiding them. To avoid further escalation it is imperative that we immediately file a case on the Panatag Shoal issue under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) thru its International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS),” said Colmenares.

Iloilo Rep. Jerry Trenas said allied nations like the United States and its North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) should take a look at this incident with serious concern as he noted that the Spratlys dispute is a potential global hotspot.

“This is a very complicated situation. It is understandable that China is a world economic and even military power. It is a very lucrative market for many nations, including the United States and the European powers, and even the Philippines. And China is taking advantage of this situation,” said Trenas.

Western Samar Rep. Mel Senen Sarmiento said the Philippines should investigate the incident further but noted that “it is for the best interest of all nations especially the U.S. and its NATO allies to stop further Chinese aggression before it runs amok in the entire South East Asian region.”

Sarmiento said China’s aggressive stance on its territorial disputes may have something to do with its desperation to find its own source of gas, oil and minerals needed to fuel its rapid economic and industrial expansion.

“If push comes to a shove, the Philippines might be left with no choice but to fight back. This dreadful scenario would certainly have devastating effects on the global economy including that of the U.S. and those belonging to NATO,” said Sarmiento as he urged the Department of National Defense to draw-up relevant contingency plans to prepare the country even under worst situations.

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 05:34 AM

The T-50 once modified have MRF capability. And it is a real MRF. Even if The Philippines buys T-50, it can be modified to FA-50.

I also like Eurofighter Typhoon proposal though our country is better off getting lightweight MRFs.

Modification is not that simple! The F/A-50 is slightly larger than the T/A-50, has more hard points, and has more power.

bakit ang indonesia sangkaterbang MRFs pero karamihan trainers nila turboprop,..mag-isip kasi nag-iimagine kalang e!!!

FYI Indonesia uses the BAE Hawk as their advanced trainer jet which will soon be replaced by the T/A-50.

all that italian plane has to offer is verbal and propaganda claims that it is better.....

Italy, Israel and Singapore got it as trainer aircraft since they have MRF's that can handle real theater of war......

Korea bought the FA-50 for light attack use and an actual fighter aircraft in imminent theater of war i.e. north korea... fa-50 can run circles around existing mig north korean jets.... this is direct replacement to their f5s with support to f16s and f15s..... I'd rather buy the Korean jet than the m346... anyway i mean no disrespect here..... I'd buy the combat version FA-50 hands down any day compared to the m346 trainer version.... is there even a combat version of the m346 that has been demonstrated to any military???

YES! :banana:

I'm for The Gripen due to it's cost and performance. But I like lightweight MRFs that packs a punch.

I do hope The PAF considers this plane just like how the Thais considered it for their RTAF.

What's with the BUT word? The JAS Gripen is classified as a lightweight MRF! :cheers:

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 05:43 AM

The report says philippines will buy the fa50 not ta50. This is the tested combat version. Airforce plans to buy super tocanos what is ur point on ground attack? Light fighter capability means it can fight at least... Fighter planes need speed and ceiling so why settle for the slower and lower plane??? Alenia and boeing made the trianer deal with israel italy and singapore commercial attractive but not "combat" competitive from performance standpoint...

Last, I guess the dnd and afp people are stupid if they buy the fa50 according to you right???

What report? The DND will be buying 12 T/A-50 advanced trainer jets for the LIFT program but no mention yet what will be for the MRF and SAA programs.

arvor - here is my basic argumentation why the FA-50 (not the TA-50) is the best deal for the Philippines

a) FA-50 flies faster and higher than m346. In dogfight situations, any additional speed or ceiling a fighter pilot will take it.... dogfight doctrine and strategy are determined by aircraft speed, ceiling, capability, bvr, etc. etc. etc..... If fa-50 and m346 cost the same, why buy the one with lesser capability????? For basic understanding watch the history channels air combat......... It is a different argument that you are going up against a far superior enemy with stealth technology, BVR capability and superior jets... that is a different argument versus fa50 versus m346......

What if the MILF can buy an FA50??? You would still buy the M346??? If you focus on what the 2 aircraft can do, solely on performance, the FA-50 is a better buy. The Koreans just not offering same commercial trade gov't to gov't as what Italy is doing for the M346.

If I believe the press reports, Korea will replace all their backup aircraft of f4, f5 and light attack with these fa-50 planes.... numbering 160 units.... Indonesia will replace the hawk.... Seems pretty capable fighter attack aircraft to me.

Philippines plans to buy super tocano or equivalent for COIN.. although for bombing runs it would be good practice to use the fa50s on them :)

Anyway - the true fighter pilots and weapon specialist in the DND and AFP know what they are doing..... unless corruption comes into play

Why compare the F/A-50 with the M-346 when they are 2 different jets? The F/A-50 is a lightweight fighter jet while the M-346 is an advanced trainer jet! You should compare a fighter jet with a real fighter jet and an advanced trainer jet with a real advanced trainer jet.

fully agree.... we buy the fa-50 LIFT... but buy the combat version.... then bring in another squadron of gripen..... then we'd have similar doctrine as korea.... main fighter line f16 and f15s.... backup fa-50....... i did not say we settle for these toy fa50's anyway... but it is a good use of money coming from 0 fighters. what air combat doctrine the country is adapting.... we don't know, we're not defense experts and weapon specialists anyway

FYI The F/A-50 is not a LIFT aircraft, it is the T/A-50 that is the LIFT aircraft.

Beam Magnum

June 25th, 2012, 05:43 AM

^^
Fishing boats should arm themselves a non lethal weapon stink bomb and throw at their decks. Its demonstrated effective made by a squatter group against the demolition team.

Hawaii bracing for largest-ever RIMPAC exercise
http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/hawaii-bracing-for-largest-ever-rimpac-exercise-1.181141

hanabi59

June 25th, 2012, 05:46 AM

China pulls out all its vessels from disputed Panatag Shoal — DFA

The Philippine Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) said on Monday China has pulled out all its vessels inside the lagoon of the disputed Panatag (Scarborough) Shoal in the West Philippine Sea.

“Based on coordination with the Philippines and China, as of two days ago, we have received information that all boats have left the lagoon in Bajo de Masinloc,” Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario said in a statement sent to the media, referring to the shoal’s Philippine name.

“There are no longer any boats from either the Philippines or China inside the shoal,” Del Rosario said.

There was no immediate confirmation about this from the Chinese side.

Del Rosario also did not say if there were still Chinese government ships outside the lagoon but in the vicinity of Panatag Shoal.

Last week, a military official said up to six Chinese government ships were seen by Philippine authorities outside the shoal.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/263062/news/nation/china-pulls-out-all-its-vessels-from-disputed-panatag-shoal-mdash-dfa

Nabartek

June 25th, 2012, 05:57 AM

^^ So China has pulled their vessels AFTER killing a Filipino fisherman?

Hmmmm...

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 05:59 AM

bat ba bumibili pa tayo ng mga gatas sa mga hayop na piratang ito???o baka naman kagagawan na naman ni biazon ito at ang kanyang alipores sa custom,..:bash::bash::bash:sabotahe na ginagawa satin ng mga commies, i-ban na lahat producto ng mga pirata, dna nakuntento ang mga hayup, from melamine to mercury na, my goodness biazon, do something!!!:bash::bash::bash:unti unti na tayong pinapatay ng mga commies, wag pagkatiwalaan sa WPS labanan ang mga piratang ito,..:ohno:

Public urged to report presence of tainted milk

Friday, June 22, 2012

MANILA – Following the reported illegal presence in the country of mercury-tainted infant milk products from China, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is calling on the public to maintain vigilance against these products.:ohno:

In an advisory, FDA officer-in-charge Nicolas Lutero said it would be best if the vigilance would also come directly from the people and not only from the government.

“The public is strictly advised to be vigilant and report immediately to the FDA should the Yili baby formula (or Quan You baby formula) be seen or found in possession of any individual,” said Lutero.

He said they have already coordinated with the Bureau of Customs in order to ensure that the said milk formula will not enter the country, especially since it is not registered with the FDA.

The health official added that they have already asked for the assistance of local government units in policing the illegal presence of the said products in the Philippine market.

To report to the FDA, the public may call 807-8275 or 842-5606.

Last Thursday, the FDA reportedly seized milk products from China in Sta. Cruz, Manila that, while not sporting the Quan You brand, was made by the same manufacturer from China, the Inner Mongolia Yili Industrial Group Co.

This was after the pronouncement by the FDA that since the melamine scare in 2008 also involving several milk products from China, there have been no registered milk products imported from China in the country.

Earlier this week, the Inner Mongolia Yili Industrial Group in China has recalled Quan You milk due to the mercury content found in its products.

:ohno: (HDT/Sunnex)

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/breaking-news/2012/06/22/public-urged-report-presence-tainted-milk-228164#.T-P0UDDhpPg.facebook

Chinese Biochemical Warfare! :lol:

I do hope that our DND ./ PAF are for real when issuing such report. I would hate it when I hear news of them buying such air craft or equipment and then back out the last minute. Or not even buying it at all.

As for the T-50, if that is what The DND wanted to buy then better for them to sign the deal and purchase them than backing out and then look for other choices for LIFT.

It happened with our F-16 deal but there is a good reason why The DND decline such.

The M-346 Master is still the best choice for the PAF LIFT program.

Maybe the USA is just protecting thier technology. kaya tinanggalan ng missile at radar yan.... Maghanap nlng tau sa ibang bansa na for sale ung missile at radar nila and then we mount it to the newly acquired cutter. Or we must build our own.

The Phalanx is the best CIWS nowadays so definitely the United States doesn't want its technology to be compromised.

3rd lagest shipbuilder sana tayo. kahit 10 warship within 2 years tapos lahat sa hajin-subic yan. makakamura ang pinas kapag maramihan ung order.

10 warships to be built in the Hanjin Subic shipyard in 2 years? That's impossible because Hanjin currently has contracts to build commercial ships there, they have deadlines to meet or lose money to other shipbuilders that can deliver the ship orders on time.

Arvor

June 25th, 2012, 06:02 AM

The list of firepower and people is impressive: Some 42 surface ships, six submarines, more than 200 aircraft and 25,000 personnel are taking part in RIMPAC.

Two big-deck U.S. Navy shipsthe aircraft carrier Nimitz and amphibious assault ship Essexwill be the centerpieces of the war games as they launch aircraft and fend off mock attacks by submarines and simulated missiles.

Marines will launch amphibious assault vehicles from the Essex and hit the beach with support from helicopters.

In Washington state last week, the oiler Henry J. Kaiser loaded up 900,000 gallons of a 50/50 blend of traditional petroleum-based fuel and biofuel made from waste cooking oil and algae oil for a demonstration of the "Great Green Fleet" during RIMPAC.

The Pearl Harbor destroyers Chung-Hoon and Chafee will be among ships testing the biofuel.

Australia, Canada, Chile, Colombia, France, Japan, Mexico, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Russia, Singapore and the United States are among the nations in this year's RIMPAC.

Military personnel from India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Peru, Republic of Philippines, Thailand, Tonga and the United Kingdom also will be taking part.

Russia, India, Mexico, the Philippines, New Zealand, Norway and Tonga are participating for the first time, said Cmdr. Charlie Brown, a spokesman for the U.S. Navy's 3rd Fleet.
http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/hawaii-bracing-for-largest-ever-rimpac-exercise-1.181141

That's pretty good there's a first time for everything hopefully next Rimpac the navy can send one of it's ex Hamiltons, BRP Gregorio del Pilars crew should be well versed in running it by then so they should have the honour of joining .

Actually come to think of it i believe that the BRP Alcaraz would be heading for Hawaii around this time ? .

----

JmR6H_S9R6U&feature
Cruising Alongside An Anti-Ship Missile

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 06:14 AM

http://www.iluvcebu.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/supercat.jpg

Fast crafts such as this if armed will be a force to reckon in WPS.

Where will you install the weapons on that catamaran?

If your neighbors have even just two or three Armalites or AK-47s, buying three dozen pocket knives will not make any difference. In other words, what is the point in buying a dozen South Korean T-50s when your neighbors have F-14s, F-15s, F-16s and F-18s?:okay::okay:

These latter fighter jets are in fact already obsolete by American standards, but they still pack the kind of wallop that neighbors in the region will have to think of really hard first before trying to test the limits of our nerves.

But South Korean T-50s? Why, model planes look more menacing. Leftist partylist congressman Teodoro Casiño, who does not want to buy any planes at all, is right for an entirely different reason — such a purchase only opens us up to corruption. Why buy a T-50 unless....?

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=820143&publicationSubCategoryId=109

Only Iran has the F-14 because the US Navy has already retired them. Nice thinking whoever the author of the article is because none of our neighbors operate the F-14! Hahaha

YEAH. Na warn ko na yan tungkol sa theory Chinese aggression from 20 years. Di naniwala pa. TIMAWA FAGS u want Super Tucano bahala na kayo dyan puro outdated kayo dyan.

Outdated? The Super Tucano is not a fighter plane, it's one of the latest and newest attack planes used for COIN warfare which will eventually replace the ageing OV-10 Broncos. We still have homegrown insurgency problems to deal with and our ground troops need these air support assets!

Do you have a a list of dates of air mission about the Bronco fighter bombing any NPA camps in the jungle lair?

Even they bought Super Tucano there is no guarantee that can find the NPA or providing close air support for the ground troops gets ambush every time its just a worthless, useless its only a showoff to scare the enemy.

Even a slow helicopter can be shot down by a sniper like this example

http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3177:peru-police-helicopter-shot-down-by-narcotraffickers&catid=35:latin-america&Itemid=58

The Super Tucano is more advanced the OV-10 because they have thermal heat sensors and built-in night fighting capabilities unlike our current OV-10 pilots who use NVGs to see and fly at night.

The Super Tucano can also fire guided missiles while the OV-10 cannot.

M46Fr3D

June 25th, 2012, 06:15 AM

Kung may SAM tayo, i test fire yun sa kanila tapos palabasin aksidente rin yun. Pag nag-react, its show time! :lol::lol:

If they are fishing on undisputed Philippine waters, we could sink them and just report that they are armed and firing on a civilian fishing boats. They could do nothing about it as they are intruding our waters.

M46Fr3D

June 25th, 2012, 06:22 AM

Where will you install the weapons on that catamaran?

Of course in its present form, you cannot install heavy firepower because it is not intended to carry them since its purpose is a motor vessel. But if you are going to modify it, you could install two anti-submarin torpedoes at both sides and 2 machine guns in front and maybe exocet/SAM at the back.

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 06:23 AM

PAF to get 25 more helicopters in December (http://www.zamboangatoday.ph/index.php/inside-stories/10643-paf-to-get-25-more-helicopters-in-december-.html)
Sunday, 24 June 2012 00:00

The Philippine Air Force (PAF) will get 25 more helicopters late this year to augment its depleting air assets.

This was announced during the Air Power Symposium 2012 held at the SMX Convention Center, Mall of Asia in Pasay City on Friday as part of its preparation for the forthcoming 65th PAF anniversary celebration on July 6.

The symposium was hosted by Lt. Gen. Lauro Catalino G. de la Cruz, PAF commanding general.

This year’s theme was “Mobilizing Air Power for the Nation’s Multi-Dimensional Challenges.”

De la Cruz said four of the helicopters will be the last of the eight brand-new combat utility Sokol choppers the Department of National Defense ordered from PZL Swidnik of Poland.

The arrival of the final four Sokol helicopters will boost the firepower of the PAF which is in dire need of air assets, particularly fighter jets.

PZL Swidnik is the largest helicopter manufacturer in Poland.

The Sokol helicopter can carry 14 persons, including the pilot and co-pilot and has a maximum speed of 260 kilometers per hour and a range of 745 kilometers non-stop.

Each Sokol is armed with a variety of weapons such as air-to-ground rockets, air-to-air missiles, M-60 machine guns and 20mm cannons and climbs to an altitude of 19,680 feet.

The contract price of the Sokol choppers was P3 billion.

On the other hand, 21 refurbished UH-1H “Huey” helicopters will also be delivered in December this year.

“Hueys” are not only the workhorse of the military’s counter-insurgency operations in ferrying troops to combat areas but are also used during disasters, carrying food, water and medicines for victims stranded in remote areas.

Some of the 21 “Huey” helicopters were refurbished in the United States and the others were done by PAF engineers and aircraft mechanics.

The acquisition of new combat helicopters is part of the Modernization Program of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP).

During the day-long affair, De la Cruz said the symposium, which is an annual event of the Air Force since 1982, except for some broken years, “is designed primarily to discuss and promote the value of air power to a wider constituency.”

But for 2012, the forum was unique as it included the holding of “a 5-in-1 activity -- an academic forum, an air power symposium, a defense exhibit, a historical photo display, and the first Youth LEAP or Youth Leader Exchange for Air Power gathering.”

“We are holding this event no longer to cater mainly to an internal audience or our friends in aviation, but to a greater multi-sectoral representation of national security stakeholders and partners.”

De la Cruz stressed the importance of air power in the country’s defense.

“Today we all live in a highly complex and unpredictable security environment, and that the threats we face demand from us no easy solutions.”

Taking advantage of today’s new technology, De la Cruz allowed questions asked via the Internet, Twitter, Facebook, or mobile phones.

The questions were flashed on the wide screen during the question-and-answer portion of the symposium that turned out to be more lively.

Those who sent their questionnaires gave their names.

By Ben Cal

More Hueys yehey! :banana:

Manila-X

June 25th, 2012, 06:26 AM

Modification is not that simple! The F/A-50 is slightly larger than the T/A-50, has more hard points, and has more power.

FYI Indonesia uses the BAE Hawk as their advanced trainer jet which will soon be replaced by the T/A-50.

YES! :banana:

What's with the BUT word? The JAS Gripen is classified as a lightweight MRF! :cheers:

If PAF buys The T-50, it is still a question whether to acquire T-50 or FA-50.

I accidentally used the BUT word. I'm still for JAS Gripens though for our country's main MRF.

Beam Magnum

June 25th, 2012, 06:33 AM

Outdated? The Super Tucano is not a fighter plane, it's one of the latest and newest attack planes used for COIN warfare which will eventually replace the ageing OV-10 Broncos. We still have homegrown insurgency problems to deal with and our ground troops need these air support assets!

The Super Tucano is more advanced the OV-10 because they have thermal heat sensors and built-in night fighting capabilities unlike our current OV-10 pilots who use NVGs to see and fly at night.

The Super Tucano can also fire guided missiles while the OV-10 cannot.

That never happen to support ground troop. Long time ago i met one of the soldier who took a big operation against MILF camps and tells me how many soldier got snipe in the open area with no cover air support to flush out the sniper in the jungle. Few of them got drown in the quick sand traps. They just rely on there mortar shell and artillery.

Sinabi ba yan sa dyaryo kung gaano marami ng sundalo nasawi sa laban? wala.

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 06:34 AM

Of course in its present form, you cannot install heavy firepower because it is not intended to carry them since its purpose is a motor vessel. But if you are going to modify it, you could install two anti-submarin torpedoes at both sides and 2 machine guns in front and maybe exocet/SAM at the back.

Where will you put the SONAR that will tell you that a submarine is nearby and the FCS that will search for targets? What will also be your point defense weapon in case of a surface and/or air attack? A catamaran is a twin hulled ship with a big empty space below in the middle of the 2 slim hulls so how will you put a SONAR on to it? The mast of this catamaran suggest that it can only take in small radars but not an FCS.

Having those trucks with missiles is not the same as having an aircraft and being able to intercept an intruder and see it. You cannot just fire missiles indiscriminately at any intruder or you risk of starting a war. An aircarft can fly and identify the intruder and then escort them out of the airspace. A truck simply cannot do that.

An air defense missile system operator can radio the intruding aircraft using free-to-air radio frequencies on all channels after spotting him on radar, if the intruder doesn't respond and continue on its flight course, the air defense missile system operator can lock on the aircraft to warn the pilot. The pilot can detect if an anti-aircraft missile has been locked on to his aircraft and if he still persist, it will only take a few minutes before the missile shoots him down.

Manila-X

June 25th, 2012, 06:39 AM

Filipinos Fought In Korean War
By BEN CAL/Philippine News Agency
June 24, 2012, 9:10pm

http://mb.com.ph/articles/363310/filipinos-fought-in-korean-war

MANILA, Philippines (PNA) --- When the Korean War broke out on June 25, 1950, the Philippines was the first Asian country to send combat troops to help the beleaguered South Koreans fight the invading North Koreans and Chinese forces.

That act of the Philippines in response to a call by a friend in need 62 years ago would never be forgotten by South Korea.

The Philippine Veterans Affairs Office (PVAO), currently headed by retired Lt. Gen. Ernesto G. Carolina, said that it was on Aug. 7, 1950, or 43 days after the war erupted when then President Elpidio R. Quirino announced the deployment of 7,420 Filipino combat troops to Korea known as the Philippine Expeditionary Forces to Korea (PEFTOK).

Quirino said the sending of Philippines combat troops to Korea was in fulfillment of the country’s obligation as a co-signer of the United Nations Charter.

“Poor as we are, this country is making a great sacrifice in sending you there (Korea), but every peso invested in you is a sound investment for the perpetuation of our liberty and freedom,” Quirino said.

Quirino and his Secretary of Foreign Affairs, Carlos P. Romulo, also saw the Philippines’ commitment to defend its friend, the Republic of Korea, as part of a larger fight to save world democracy from communism.

PVAO said “the great friendship between the Philippines and the Republic of Korea is extraordinary. It began in 1947 at a time when the Philippines and Korea were rebuilding their countries following the massive devastation inflicted by the Second World War.”

It may be recalled that in 1947, the Philippines played a key role in a United Nations’ initiative that led to the creation of the Republic of Korea on Aug. 15, 1948.

The Philippines was the first Asian country to establish diplomatic relations with the Republic of Korea on March 3, 1949.

The Korean War began 15 months later and when it ended in an Armistice on July 27, 1953, Korea, a nation that had been united for most of its history, became a country divided.

The Philippines was the first Asian country to send combat troops to fight in defense of the Republic of Korea.

The Philippines volunteered to fight in Korea despite having to rebuild an economy shattered by the Second World War while simultaneously subduing its own dangerous communist insurgency.

Despite its own pressing need for soldiers, the Philippines recognized the urgency of assisting South Korea in its fight to survive as an independent state.

On Sept 15, 1950, the officers and men of the 10th Battalion Combat Team (Motorized) boarded a transport ship at Manila Bay for their voyage to the Korean War.

This battle-hardened battalion was typical of all five Battalion Combat Team (BCTs) comprising PEFTOK.

All the PEFTOK soldiers had seen years of fighting the communist Huks.

Retired Lt. Gen. Ernesto G. Carolina, PVAO administrator, said the five PEFTOK battalions that saw action during the Korean War from 1950 to 1955 were:

• 10th Battalion Combat Team (Motorized)

• 20th Battalion Combat Team (Motorized)

• 19th Battalion Combat Team (Motorized)

• 14th Battalion Combat Team

• 2nd Battalion Combat Team

The Filipino BCTs proved their combat capability during numerous battles with the enemy that “not one PEFTOK battalion was defeated or made incapable of combat as a result of enemy action despite many hard fought battles.”

“PEFTOK consistently defeated its main enemy (the “Chinese People’s Volunteer Army”) in actions for hills, cities and towns along the 38th Parallel dividing Korea.

“In successfully defending South Korea, the Philippines cemented a friendship that endures to this day, and that is a source of great pride to both nations,” PVAO said. A Memorial for Heroes

The PEFTOK Korean Memorial Hall was constructed in honor of the 7,420 officers and men of the five BCTs who fought during the Korean War and helped rebuild Korea.

Out of the 7,420-strong PEFTOK members, 112 were killed in action, 229 wounded, 16 missing and presumed dead and 41 held as prisoners of war (POWs).

PVAO said the memorial honors the staunch friendship between the Philippines and the Republic of Korea forged in their shared sacrifice during the war.

“It’s the outstanding symbol of the decades’ old partnership between the Philippines and South Korea,” said Col. Paterno Viloria PhD, president of the PEFTOK Veterans Association, Inc. (PVAI), the only association of Filipino Korean War veterans.

PEFTOK produced a president in the person of retired Gen. Fidel V. Ramos who was elected as the 12th President of the Republic of the Philippines in 1992 and served his six-year term until June 30, 1998.

Ramos was a member of the famed 20th BCT sent to the Korean War.

The Memorial Hall is one of two buildings at the “Philippines-Korea Friendship Center” along Bayani Road in Taguig City. The other is the HRD Training Center. The Memorial Hall houses the Philippines’ first-ever Museum specifically about the Korean War; a multi-purpose hall, an office for PVAI, a library, a roof deck and other facilities.

Inside the museum are panels describing the history of the Philippines’ involvement in the Korean War and memorabilia from our soldiers who served in Korea.

On the ground outside the building and inside the museum are displayed weapons used by Filipino soldiers in the Korean War.

The Republic of Korea also has its own exhibit at the museum. On the other hand, the Philippines-Korea Friendship Center was a proposal by former South Korean Ambassador Choi Joong Kyung that a memorial hall be built to honor the soldiers of the Philippine Expeditionary Force to Korea or PEFTOK.

Ambassador Choi noted that the friendship between the Philippines and his country strengthened by the Korean War had blossomed into a partnership both countries have nurtured over the decades.

That vision led to the signing of a Memorandum of Agreement in May 2009 by Ambassador Choi, former Secretary of Defense Gilberto Teodoro, Jr. and Brig. Gen. Victorino T. Azada, former President of the PEFTOK Veterans Association, Inc.

The Department of National Defense and its Philippine Veterans Affairs Office took charge of the Philippine part of the project. The Korea International Cooperation Agency (KOICA) was responsible for the South Korean contribution. Following necessary pre-construction activities, South Korean firms began work in 2011 at the 5,000-square meter project site donated by the Philippines along Bayani Road in Taguig City.

First to be built at this site was the two-storey PEFTOK Korean War Memorial Hall. As work on this building was proceeding, construction began at the adjacent four-storey HRD Training Center.

The HRD Training Center will train young Filipinos for gainful employment both here and abroad.

The PEFTOK Memorial Hall is inscribed with the names of all the 112 Filipino heroes who were killed in action during the war.

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 06:39 AM

That never happen to support ground troop. Long time ago i met one of the soldier who took a big operation against MILF camps and tells me how many soldier got snipe in the open area with no cover air support to flush out the sniper in the jungle. They just rely on there mortar shell and artillery.

Sinabi ba yan sa dyaryo kung gaano marami ng sundalo nasawi sa laban? wala.

Because they don't have a high tech close air support aircraft that can see through dense vegetation and thick jungles. The OV-10 was used for bombing runs on MILF camps during Erap's anti-MILF campaign. The PAF OV-10 Broncos doesn't have the capability to spot and fire specific targets like bunkers and snipers' nest because they are only armed with general purpose bombs, no missiles.

That is just one incident for you to say that close air support never happens!

Manila-X

June 25th, 2012, 06:43 AM

I'm currently having a debate on facebook in The Concerned Philippines For AFP Modernization group.

It is about the suggestion that The DND should acquire The F-15s over The Gripen.

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 06:47 AM

Mindanao Air Strikes by OV-10 light bombers

http://www.paf.mil.ph/HQ/PIO/images/OV%2010%20loading%20bomb%20at%20EAAB%203.jpg

MANILA, Philippines -- The strikes launched by the Philippine Air Force (PAF) on alleged Moro rebel lairs are the biggest aerial bombardment in the country in nearly a decade.

He said some 30 aircraft are now involved in the Mindanao operations, with the fleet boosted by rescue and utility choppers for troop support, and OV-10 Broncos and MG-520 attack helicopters from Sangley Point for bomb runs.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/regions/view/20080822-156296/Mindanao-air-strikes-biggest-in-nearly-a-decade

SHARIFF AGUAK, Maguindanao – At least 100 separatist Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) rebels were reported killed while several others were seriously wounded in the biggest air and artillery strikes and ground offensives in Maguindanao in recent years, the military said yesterday.

http://www.mb.com.ph/MAIN20080824133325.html

pthfndr19

June 25th, 2012, 06:51 AM

COAST GUARD VESSELS READY FOR POSSIBLE PANATAG DEPLOYMENT
Photo: ABS-CBNnews.com

Philippine Coast Guard vessel BRP Corregidor and other government vessels are docked at a pier in Zambales on Friday, replenishing food and other supplies for possible deployment to the disputed Panatag Shoal in the West Philippine Sea. President Aquino ordered the pullout of all ships in the area last week due to bad weather.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/486426_10150874526730168_1412120149_n.jpg

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 06:56 AM

I'm currently having a debate on facebook in The Concerned Philippines For AFP Modernization group.

It is about the suggestion that The DND should acquire The F-15s over The Gripen.

The F-15 is too old therefore a maintenance nightmare! :cheers:

Beam Magnum

June 25th, 2012, 06:58 AM

Mindanao Air Strikes by OV-10 light bombers

http://www.paf.mil.ph/HQ/PIO/images/OV%2010%20loading%20bomb%20at%20EAAB%203.jpg

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/regions/view/20080822-156296/Mindanao-air-strikes-biggest-in-nearly-a-decade

http://www.mb.com.ph/MAIN20080824133325.html

Look at the photo of how ineffective using a 500 kilo bomb or 1000 kilo bomb instead of using napalm bomb to incinerate the forest.

Pasenya ka na my mind is still on a state disillusion by the corrupt officials . Dont bother it.

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 07:10 AM

Look at the photo of how ineffective using a 500 kilo bomb or 1000 kilo bomb instead of using napalm bomb to incinerate the forest.

FYI The use of napalm bomb has already been banned by international laws! And why would you incinerate a forest? That's deforestation.

Nabartek

June 25th, 2012, 07:15 AM

Look at the photo of how ineffective using a 500 kilo bomb or 1000 kilo bomb instead of using napalm bomb to incinerate the forest.

Pasenya ka na my mind is still on a state disillusion by the corrupt officials . Dont bother it.

I think Napalm is already banned

Lilyr

June 25th, 2012, 07:29 AM

Next year they will go for Papa Kim's or Papa Maple Leaf's flag:banana::nuts::lol:

http://s13.postimage.org/3k99vc8p3/ph_australia.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

Manila-X

June 25th, 2012, 07:31 AM

Next year they will go for Papa Kim's or Papa Maple Leaf's flag:banana::nuts:

We should not even pay attention to these fuckers nor the media should hype it.

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 07:31 AM

The MILF camps are not 100% fortresses because they also have a school, mosque, hospital, community center, and village-type housing for innocent Muslim civilians living there with their husbands and fathers fighting as MILF rebels for a separate Islamic state.

Legal Status of Incendiary Weapons

Paragraph 1 of Article 2 states that the civilian population as such and individual civilians or civilian objects may not be made the object of attack with incendiary weapons -- a principle that applies to all weapons under customary international law. Paragraph 2 prohibits making of any military objective located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by air-delivered incendiary weapons, such as napalm. This paragraph does not restrict the use of other types of incendiary weapons, such as White Phosphorus delivered by artillery. Paragraph 3 prohibits uses of incendiaries against military objectives located within concentrations of civilians, except when the target is clearly separated from the concentration of civilians and all feasible precautions are taken to limit the incendiary effects to the targe and minimize civilian casualties.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/incendiary-legal.htm

Manila-X

June 25th, 2012, 07:32 AM

The MILF camps are not 100% fortresses because they also have a school, mosque, hospital, community center, and housing for innocent Muslim civilians living there with their husbands and fathers fighting as MILF rebels for a separate Islamic state.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/incendiary-legal.htm

It was shown during The Camp Abu Bakhar raid a decade back.

Manila-X

June 25th, 2012, 07:39 AM

Another US submarine in Philippines for ‘routine port call’
By Frances Mangosing
INQUIRER.net
12:51 pm | Monday, June 25th, 2012

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/41267/another-us-submarine-in-philippines-for-‘routine-port-call’

MANILA, Philippines – Another United States submarine made a port call at Subic Bay on Monday, the United States embassy said.

USS Louisville, a nuclear-powered fast attack submarine of the Los Angeles class design, is in the county for a routine port call that highlights the strong historic, community, and military connections between the United States and the Republic of the Philippines, the embassy said.

This visit will allow the ship to replenish supplies as well as give the crew an opportunity for rest and relaxation, it also said.

The USS Louisville was commissioned on November 8, 1986 at the Naval Submarine Base, New London, Connecticut.

Last month, USS North Carolina, also made a port call at Subic Bay amid tensions between China and Philippines on Scarborough Shoal.

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 07:57 AM

It was shown during The Camp Abu Bakhar raid a decade back.

Correct! :cheers:

Using napalm bombs to incinerate a forest also causes deforestation (due to forest fires) which is a violation of our local environmental laws.

It is still best to have an attack aircraft for COIN warfare that is capable of firing both conventional non-napalm bombs and rockets for general targets and guided missiles for specific targets both day and night.

The Super Tucano has this capability.

Weapons

The aircraft is fitted with two central mission computers. The integrated weapon system includes software for weapon aiming, weapon management, mission planning and mission rehearsal. Onboard recording is used for post mission analysis.

The aircraft has five hardpoints for carrying weapons, and is capable of carrying a maximum external load of 1,500kg. The aircraft is armed with two wing-mounted 12.7mm machine guns with a rate of fire of 1,100 rounds a minute and is capable of carrying general-purpose bombs and guided air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles. Brazilian AF aircraft are armed with the MAA-1 Piranha short-range infrared guided air-to-air missile from Orbita.

The two seat AT-29 is fitted with a forward-looking infrared AN/AAQ-22 SAFIRE turret on the underside of the fuselage. The SAFIRE thermal imaging system supplied by FLIR Systems is for targeting, navigation and target tracking. The system allows the aircraft to carry out night surveillance and attack missions.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/super_tucano/

DJdanz

June 25th, 2012, 08:07 AM

10 warships to be built in the Hanjin Subic shipyard in 2 years? That's impossible because Hanjin currently has contracts to build commercial ships there, they have deadlines to meet or lose money to other shipbuilders that can deliver the ship orders on time.

Probably your right kng marami na masyado ung order. But for now lumakas na ung kompitisyon sa shipbuilding industry dahil sa pag bukas ng shipyards sa middle east especially Oman. Kaya laking pasalamat ng Hanjin dun sa Bagong 10 container ship na nkuha nila.

Just for an insight, Hanjin can produce 10 to 12, 205k tonnes bulk carrier has a length of around 295m in one year. The warship like Hamilton cutter is only 115m in length, kaya nasabi ko na within 2 years including the 10 container carrier kaya taposin.

Maybe u will ask me how do i know that, i just know it, co'z i work there before.:)

Beam Magnum

June 25th, 2012, 08:16 AM

Correct! :cheers:

Using napalm bombs to incinerate a forest also causes deforestation (due to forest fires) which is a violation of our local environmental laws.

It is still best to have an attack aircraft for COIN warfare that is capable of firing both conventional non-napalm bombs and rockets for general targets and guided missiles for specific targets both day and night.

The Super Tucano has this capability.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/super_tucano/

How come the US dont use that on Afghanistan?

M46Fr3D

June 25th, 2012, 09:28 AM

Where will you put the SONAR that will tell you that a submarine is nearby and the FCS that will search for targets? What will also be your point defense weapon in case of a surface and/or air attack? A catamaran is a twin hulled ship with a big empty space below in the middle of the 2 slim hulls so how will you put a SONAR on to it? The mast of this catamaran suggest that it can only take in small radars but not an FCS.

Cant we tow sonar arrays? Fire Control Systems? The PLA were able to put up FCS for their ASCM and they are also fast attack catamarans (Houbei Class Type 2208). If you want mono-haul, SuperCat also has them before. I was able to rode mono-haul fast crafts and catamarans and oh boy, they were fast. Our coast guards cant even chase them so they just limit them to go at 21 knots max i guess.

M46Fr3D

June 25th, 2012, 09:35 AM

How come the US dont use that on Afghanistan?

Why use Super Tucano in Afghanistan if you have A-10 Warthog? Sounds of death. No pun intended but i really love the Warthog. Angas nya!!! :):banana:

Beam Magnum

June 25th, 2012, 09:41 AM

Why use Super Tucano in Afghanistan if you have A-10 Warthog? Sounds of death. No pun intended but i really love the Warthog. Angas nya!!! :):banana:

Ay naku i was dreaming about that plane. Lets move on.

SUBIC WELCOMES U.S. SUBMARINE USS LOUISVILLE
http://subicbaynews.net/?p=2208

Wind Shear

June 25th, 2012, 10:09 AM

Manila-X

June 25th, 2012, 11:19 AM

Military prepared to rescue missing Jordanian journalist
By Jaime Laude Home Updated June 25, 2012 04:38 PM

http://www.philstar.com/nation/article.aspx?publicationsubcategoryid=200&articleid=820879

MANILA, Philippines - The military in Sulu is now conducting ground operations in preparation for the possible launching of rescue operations for abducted Al Arabiya television South East Asia bureau chief Baker Atyani and his two Filipino crewmen.

Col. Jose Johriel Cenabre, deputy commander for marine operations of the Naval Forces Western Mindanao, said that military intelligence teams are already conducting operations in preparation for the possible rescue operations.

“Joint Task Force Sulu (JTFS) is preparing the environment for possible law enforcement operations to rescue them, if directed by higher authorities,” Cenabre said.

Cenabre said JTFS has also conceptualized contingencies in case other security issues may arise in relation to the particular case.

Based on joint ground monitoring, Cenabre said that the three are safe and their location has already been pinpointed by ground troops.

“As of now, they are safe and no demands (monitored) yet from the group holding them,” he said.

Cenabre, however, said that the military could not determine if Atyani and the two Filipino crewmen are being held against their will.

There are reports, however, circulating around Sulu that the Abu Sayyaf group currently holding Atyani and the two Filipinos are demanding P50 million in exchange for their release.

Sources said that the henchmen of Abu Sayyaf commander, Tahil Sali, a former Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) intercepted Atyani and his group while on their way to interview Abu Sayyaf religious leader and chieftain Yasser Igasan on June 12.

Atyani, who interviewed Al Qeada chieftian Osama bin Laden prior to the 9/11 Twin Towers bombing in the United States (US), was in Sulu to shoot a documentary on the Abu Sayyaf.

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 11:42 AM

Cant we tow sonar arrays? Fire Control Systems? The PLA were able to put up FCS for their ASCM and they are also fast attack catamarans (Houbei Class Type 2208). If you want mono-haul, SuperCat also has them before. I was able to rode mono-haul fast crafts and catamarans and oh boy, they were fast. Our coast guards cant even chase them so they just limit them to go at 21 knots max i guess.

Yes, you can tow a sonar but of course, your submarine detection capability will not be head-on since it will be towed from behind therefore the submarine can attack your warship upfront. Most sonars are mounted on the hull below the bow of an anti-submarine warship.

http://www.ngfl-cymru.org.uk/scienceinthenews/images/contents/4/en/18.jpg

Fire Control Systems are those big white domes that you can see on a warship's mast. They weigh a lot because it contains an air/surface search radar plus the other electronics that will control the warship's automated weapons and guided missiles. The dome itself is also "shielded" to protect the radar and the weapons' guidance systems.

Why use Super Tucano in Afghanistan if you have A-10 Warthog? Sounds of death. No pun intended but i really love the Warthog. Angas nya!!! :):banana:

The A-10 is used for fast attack anti-tank and bunker busting missions, it is not primarily designed for COIN warfare.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2010/2/7/1265558344660/A-Reaper-drone-in-souther-001.jpg

The United States use armed UAVs for COIN warfare in Afghanistan.

I thought that the weight of the bomb is in pounds? :lol:

Hahaha napansin mo pa yun! Sharp eyes :lol:

d7beast

June 25th, 2012, 01:37 PM

Kaya pala biglang nag-alisan ang mga pirata sa shoal, their asses are being painted (profiled for target) by the attack subs,..:ohno: mga walang bayag na mga commies mga mangingisda lang kaya ninyo!!!

Another US submarine in Philippines for ‘routine port call’
By Frances Mangosing
INQUIRER.net
12:51 pm | Monday, June 25th, 2012

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/41267/another-us-submarine-in-philippines-for-‘routine-port-call’

MANILA, Philippines – Another United States submarine made a port call at Subic Bay on Monday, the United States embassy said.

USS Louisville, a nuclear-powered fast attack submarine of the Los Angeles class design, is in the county for a routine port call that highlights the strong historic, community, and military connections between the United States and the Republic of the Philippines, the embassy said.

This visit will allow the ship to replenish supplies as well as give the crew an opportunity for rest and relaxation, it also said.

The USS Louisville was commissioned on November 8, 1986 at the Naval Submarine Base, New London, Connecticut.

Last month, USS North Carolina, also made a port call at Subic Bay amid tensions between China and Philippines on Scarborough Shoal.

gmaer

June 25th, 2012, 01:49 PM

The US Navy submarine is not here for a mission.

The visit of USS Louisville would allow the ship to replenish supplies and would give the crew an opportunity for rest and relaxation, a statement by the US Embassy said.

A submarine will not reveal itself and its location when it is on a mission.

Manila-X

June 25th, 2012, 01:56 PM

DND creates 2 new bid panels to hasten modernization
By Alexis Romero (The Philippine Star) Updated June 25, 2012 12:00 AM

http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=820669&publicationSubCategoryId=63

MANILA, Philippines - Two special bids and awards committees were formed at the Department of National Defense (DND) to fast-track the military’s capability upgrade.

The two panels will complement the agency’s Bids and Awards Committee (BAC) headed by Defense Assistant Secretary Ernesto Boac.

Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin signed last June 20 Department Order No. 113 creating the two special bids and awards committees.

The STAR obtained a copy of the order which states that the two new panels would address important matters and concerns relative to the fast-tracking of the military’s modernization program.

Fernando Manalo, defense undersecretary for finance, munitions, installations and materiel, will head the DND Special Bids and Awards Committee 1.

The vice chairman will be Assistant Secretary Patrick Velez.

The members are Director Iluminada Afuang, Armed Forces deputy chief of staff Maj. Gen. Gregorio Macapagal and another representative from the military.

Eduardo Batac, defense undersecretary for civil, veterans and reserve affairs, was named chairman of the Special Bids and Awards Committee 2.

The vice chairman will be Efren Fernandez, defense assistant secretary.

The members are Directors Peter Galvez and Alexander Gonzales, and a military representative.

The provisional members of the two new committees are the vice commanders of the AFP’s major services and the heads of the DND civilian agencies.

Velez told The STAR the DND is committed to fast-track the implementation of about 140 projects under the AFP capability upgrade program.

“The sheer volume and the specialized procedure as well as the highly technical nature of the equipment to be procured for this intended program requires additional BACs,” he said.

Velez said the new committees would provide the appropriate technical support and expertise to speed up the process and complete a majority of the modernization program by yearend.

Most of the procurement activities for the program would involve alternative methods of procurement like government-to-government, emergency and direct procurement.

The committee chairmen and members will have a one-year fixed term.

The order took effect immediately.

The original bids and awards committee led by Boac will continue to perform its functions.

The vice chair of the committee is DND legal service chief Cherrie Belmonte-Lim.

The members are Directors Nestor Castro and Marita Yoro and Army Col. Joselito Reyes.

The DND aims to approve the contracts of 138 military modernization projects by July.

It is seeking P75 billion to bankroll the military’s modernization program in the next five years.

Among the defense equipment to be acquired in the next five years are communications equipment, lead-in fighter trainer jets, closed air support aircraft, long range patrol aircraft, radar systems and engineering equipment.

d7beast

June 25th, 2012, 02:20 PM

The US Navy submarine is not here for a mission.

A submarine will not reveal itself and its location when it is on a mission.

show of force is already a mission,..:cheers:

baka naman coincidence lang napapa-monthly na visit nila kung i-aanalyze ko yan these attack subs are already in the WPS waiting for opportunity and i'll bet next moth another class will replenish their supplies, nag ro-roving na mga yan dlang mahanap ng mga pirata,..

d7beast

June 25th, 2012, 02:24 PM

d7beast

June 25th, 2012, 02:28 PM

KRipler

June 25th, 2012, 03:13 PM

dinamihan na baka umaangal d mapapasama sa partihan,..puro bidding wala pang nauumpisahan,..

I
Have you witnessed personally the bidding process to warrant your claim na wala pang nauumpisahan? Is bidding process the beginning of our much antcipated modernization already? Can you provide evidence of your alleged accusations of the corruption in the said bidding process?

KRipler

June 25th, 2012, 03:19 PM

hayaan nating mapugutan ng ulo yan or during rescue mission tirahin na ang ungas na yan baka kung ano pang kalokohang documentary ipapalabas nyan at malamang pabor na naman sa mga terorista,..

Letting the foreign guy be killed in our soil will inflict greater negative effect to our country.

KRipler

June 25th, 2012, 03:44 PM

Well the SAAB RBS 15 MK3 can just about cover the Scarborough Shoals with a range of 250 km ..., they can basically reach up to say 10 kilometers west of the shoals and if extra batteries are placed along the coast then everything or the approaches to the north, east and south is covered and enough to create an effective killzone against large vessels, so at most wed have to deal with small motorboat or torpedo boat sized vessels but given the distance from China they would have a hard time maintaining such small craft in the area .

In this case our lift aircraft or our own small torpedo boats will have home turf advantage as they don't have to travel as far can deal with them, Luzon is basically an unsinkable Battleship/Carrier if fully developed .

Some Harpoon versions have 300 KM ranges .

Future versions of the RBS15 MK4 model would have greater ranges 400+ km .

----

I don't see why not at most they may have to check the windows ability to withstand it but i think for the most part theoretically it should be able to withstand a firing but anyway it was just a what if idea, the main use would simply be to transport the truck/launcher to Pag Asa island in the Spratleys ... .

----

This is why the US primarily and Japan to an extent is helping us with a new radar and developing the "coast watch system", also the government has ordered or will order maritime surveillance planes or planes that can carry out such a role like the C212 aviocar .

Also the US has offered to have their P3 Orions fly over RP territory .

I personally agree to this proposition. Mas cheap at deadly ang land based missiles in tandem with coast watch radars and LIFT aircrafts for our immediate needs. For our longer deterrent, we need mrfs, frigates, subs, and long range missiles to be develop or acquired in a step by step manner.

We dont need to be a "follower" to understand our lack of capacity to handle and maintain big ticket acquisitions.

Let us take it a bit by bit and not make rash decisions that could compromise our afp's path toward modernization and professionalism as we are yet far from conflict.

These current happening in wps is only a tip of the iceberg. That bigger and deadlier confrontation will still take decades to materialize if ever tension will not defuse as the two giant powers are still on the process of positioning and preparing for any eventualities. So we still have time to do the right and proper thing for our military and economy.

d7beast

June 25th, 2012, 03:56 PM

I
Have you witnessed personally the bidding process to warrant your claim na wala pang nauumpisahan? Is bidding process the beginning of our much antcipated modernization already? Can you provide evidence of your alleged accusations of the corruption in the said bidding process?

aba para kang member ng komite pag nakapag react, parang guilty,..

d7beast

June 25th, 2012, 03:59 PM

Letting the foreign guy be killed in our soil will inflict greater negative effect to our country.

di lang cya hostage ng mga bandido at documentary ng isang jordanian ano sa palagay mo ipapalabas nyan? baka gawin pang inspiration ng mga jihadist yang mga pinag gagawang dokumentaryo nyan,..

Danny19

June 25th, 2012, 04:03 PM

DFA: Chinese boats leave Scarborough lagoon
By Fat Reyes
INQUIRER.net 4:12 pm | Monday, June 25th, 2012

MANILA, Philippines – The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) confirmed on Monday that all Chinese boats have sailed out of the lagoon in Scarborough Shoal.

”Based on coordination with the Philippines and China, as of two days ago, we have received information that all boats have left the lagoon in Bajo de Masinloc. There are no longer any boats from either the Philippines or China inside the shoal,” DFA spokesperson Raul Hernandez said in a text message to Inquirer.net, referring to a statement by Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario.

China and the Philippines have been at a stand-off over the West Philippine Sea. The Philippines refers to the area as Bajo de Masinloc while China refers to it as Huangyan Island.

Last week, the Chinese Ministry of Transport announced that it was sending a Nanhaiju-115 vessel to the area to help Chinese fishing boats and fishermen pull out for shelter because of stormy weather.

The Philippines earlier ordered a withdrawal of its Coast Guard vessel and a Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources survey ship, also citing bad weather.

DFA said in earlier statements that talk were still going on for the withdrawal of the Chinese ships positioned outside the lagoon, despite China’s claims that it had no plans of leaving the shoal.

source: http://globalnation.inquirer.net/41311/dfa-chinese-boats-leave-scarborough-lagoon

d7beast

June 25th, 2012, 04:13 PM

I personally agree to this proposition. Mas cheap at deadly ang land based missiles in tandem with coast watch radars and LIFT aircrafts for our immediate needs. For our longer deterrent, we need mrfs, frigates, subs, and long range missiles to be develop or acquired in a step by step manner.

We dont need to be a "follower" to understand our lack of capacity to handle and maintain big ticket acquisitions.

Let us take it a bit by bit and not make rash decisions that could compromise our afp's path toward modernization and professionalism as we are yet far from conflict.

These current happening in wps is only a tip of the iceberg. That bigger and deadlier confrontation will still take decades to materialize if ever tension will not defuse as the two giant powers are still on the process of positioning and preparing for any eventualities. So we still have time to do the right and proper thing for our military and economy.

the pirates are slowly closing our shores in the WPS, we cannot trust these commies if you look their biodata at the WPS they massacred the unarmed VN marines in paracel, they squat and permanently occupy the mischief reefs, now they are wrestling from us position of our area EZ at panatag shoal and yet we never realized it,..:ohno:if they succeeded in panatag, the kalayaan will be isolated and we cannot cross our own EEZ at the WPS,..talking about shortsightedness and myopic assumptions and ideas,..