Philippine Defense Forces - Compiled Threads [Archive]

Sou-jiro

April 26th, 2005, 04:03 PM

http://www.msnbc.com/modules/new_battlefield/images/map_philippines.gif

Military branches:
Army: 73,000
Navy (includes Marine Corps) 24,000
Air Force: 16,500
Paramilitary: 44,000 active

Primary military equipment
65 tanks
42 combat aircraft
97 armed helicopters

Military expenditures: $995 million

Military manpower
Age of service: 20
Military manpower, availability: Males ages 15-49, 21,220,191

POLITICAL ISSUES

Government:
International security issues: The Philippines is involved in a dispute over the Spratly Islands with China, Malaysia, Taiwan, Vietnam and possibly Brunei.

SOURCES OF INSTABILITY

Separatist activities: Muslim extremist groups fighting for a separate state for the Philippines Muslim minority are a constant source of instability and often receive support from Islamic groups in Afghanistan, Libya and Malaysia. The U.S. is now conducting a joint exercise with the Philippine military aimed at wiping out the Muslim extremist Abu Sayyaf group. Though the 660 U.S. soldiers are armed only for self-defense, there has been an outcry against the exercises since a provision in the nation's constitution prohibits foreign troops on Philippine soil.

Moro Islamic Liberation Front: The radical separatist group operates out of the southern Philippines and is fighting for a Muslim homeland on Mindanao island. The MILF is estimated to have 12,000 members, many of whom were trained abroad. The government is holding peace talks with the group.

Abu Sayyaf: One of the smaller Islamic separatist groups operating out of the southern Philippines. Some members have studied or worked in the Middle East and Afghanistan, and are believed to have developed ties to terror organizations there. The group engages in bombings, assassinations, kidnappings and extortion to promote an independent Islamic state in western Mindanao and the Sulu Archipelago, areas heavily populated by Muslims.

Moro National Liberation Front: The original political front for Muslim rebels, it was founded in the 1960s. During the 1970s the group reportedly had 30,000 members, but in the 1990s lost support inside the Muslim camp and from outside backers.

Human Rights: The government generally respected the human rights of citizens, but there were serious problems in some areas. Members of the security services were responsible for extrajudicial killings, disappearances, torture and arbitrary arrests and detentions. There were allegations by human rights groups that these problems worsened as the government sought to intensify its campaign against the terrorist Abu Sayyaf Group. The government stepped up efforts to stop military and police abuses, and they decreased somewhat. Although the government made some efforts, it generally was ineffective in reforming law enforcement and legal institutions. Judges and prosecutors are poorly paid, overburdened, remain susceptible to corruption and the influence of the wealthy and powerful, and often fail to provide due process and equal justice. The authorities failed to prosecute many people who broke the law, and some committed abuses with impunity. The government in some cases supported the forcible displacement of squatters from their illegal urban dwellings to make way for industrial and real estate development projects, often leading to disputes and human rights complaints. The practice decreased notably in February when the government

Skyblade

April 26th, 2005, 07:10 PM

"BRP Kagitingan" Philippine Coastguard
http://www.navy.mil.ph/gallery/ships/originalimages/cpic%20101.JPG

The Philippines own rajah humabon destroyer....
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid164/p3e6bd5632843a05bc19b3a7c164d918d/f4888571.jpg

Rajah Humabon Destroyer Again
http://www.navy.mil.ph/gallery/ships/originalimages/PF%2011.JPG

Onboard One of the Vessells
http://www.navy.mil.ph/gallery/ships/originalimages/aft%20mk38.JPG

The Philippine Naval task Group (Stingray)
http://www.navy.mil.ph/gallery/ships/originalimages/stingray-pama1.jpg
Just a correction, the Rajah Humabon is not a destroyer but a destroyer escort...the predecessor to today's frigate. The ship is the largest of the PN's surface combatants but unfortunately it's more than 60 years old...There's even some historical societies interested in taking up the Humabon once hte PN retires it since it's a WWII veteran. Before being handed over to the Philippines, it was with the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force as the Hatsushi, DE 263. The only other operator of the Cannon Class is the Royal Thai Navy but today that's being used as a training vessel. The PN had another Cannon (the Datu Kalantiaw) but that was lost from a typhoon off the coast of Northern Luzon.

The BRP Kagitingan (PG-101) is w/ the navy, not Coast Guard...unfortunately this class is underpowered and it's max speed is 16 knots...try chasing ASG "go fast boats" with that... :runaway:

The 4th picture is the Mk96 gun onboard the BRP General Mariano Alvarez (PS-38). It is THE most modern surface combatant in the fleet. It was just recently turned over by the United States and is a Cyclone Class Patrol Craft. The Cyclone's original purpose was to support US Navy SEALs but unfortunately this craft was a tad too large for such ops so they were beginning to gradually phase it out. But w/ 9/11, a new role was found for this craft and I believe some were diverted to the USCG but I think the PN is hoping to acquire another one of these patrol craft.

Here's some pics of PS-38 when it was officially accepted by the PN:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/mariano_alvarez3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/gma.jpg

Even though we have this and the Jacinto Class Corvettes along w/ the WWII corvettes (Quezon and Malvar Classes) that make up the larger ship portion of the Navy...it's still inadequate for long-duration/distance patrol missions esp. when guarding the Philippine EEZ/Malampaya gas fields and these things aren't even armed with ASMs which makes it hard to give the PN the least bit of a threat compared to neighboring navies...

Primary military equipment
65 tanks
42 combat aircraft
97 armed helicopters
I presume this is the AFP on it's better days... :bash: The tanks in inventory is the Scorpion which has been mothballed and in need of upgrades. In terms of combat aircraft, the 15 F-5A/Bs (the ONLY fighter in PAF...disregarding the Crusaders for sale :P) has been pulled out of service (which I hope is temporary but a handful is being maintained by a skeleton crew @ Clark AB). The OV-10 fleet is currently the backbone of counterinsurgency operations (COIN) but there's only 18 operational out of 33 in inventory...thankfully the Thais were generous in lending PAF some of their Broncos. :) There's one thing I'm happy to hear is the aircraft recovery program PGMA is doing... It's slowly rebuilding the number of operational aircraft in inventory which is good esp. w/ the UH-1 Hueys.

Meh I guess I should stop here before I make this post even larger... :runaway: I'll post more info and articles later on. :D

Skyblade

April 26th, 2005, 07:17 PM

Filipino soldiers are not only dying while fighting against NePs, the Abu Sayaaf, and MILF...

Filipino peacekeeper in Haiti shot dead

A MEMBER of the Philippines' peacekeeping force in Haiti was killed by sniper fire Thursday afternoon (before dawn Friday in Manila), a spokesman for the military said.

Staff Sergeant Antonio Batomalaque was shot while on patrol in Cite Soleil in the capital city of Port-au-Prince at 3:45 p.m., Lieutenant Colonel Buenaventura Pascual said.

Batomalaque was with US Army deputy operations chief Lieutenant Colonel Robert Casias, Uruguayan soldiers, and Chilean and Ecuadorian engineers at the time of the shooting, Pascual said.

Batomalaque's body is being kept at a Port-au-Prince morgue while authorities prepare to bring him back to the Philippines, Pascual said.

"The Armed Forces of the Philippines extends its deep condolences to the family of Staff Sergeant Batomalaque.
The AFP salutes him for being a true and brave soldier," the spokesman said.

Pascual said the military remains committed to peacekeeping in the Central American state despite Batomalaque's death.

http://news.inq7.net/breaking/index.php?in...&story_id=33789

RIP. :(

Sou-jiro

April 27th, 2005, 03:48 AM

Skyblade

April 27th, 2005, 07:57 AM

Unfortunately I'm not updated with the antics of the PNP on a regular basis... :bash:

Anyhow...though it would've been great to see F-15s sporting PAF's insignia but the operating costs of these planes aren't feasible with current conditions. Marcos was trying to acquire some in the 70s but due to the lack of money, they settled for the F-8 Crusader as an internim solution before they could buy some new types...but of course that never materialized... :cry: Some PAF pilots tried out the F/A-18 in the mid-90s @ China Lake NAS which is north of my hometown and I guess that was a strong contender until the Asian Financial Crisis took place and the modernization funds were drained. Right now, ANYTHING that is economical and that could meet the basic requirements of air defense along with planes to fly would be good enough for now... I mean PAF is losing pilots to Philippine Airlines, Cebu Pacific, and other airlines not because of just pay, but because they don't have anything to fly. :mad:

Corruption has always been there...but ever since the Americans left Clark and Subic, things have been harder for the AFP to get a modernization program going. In a sense I'm glad the Americans left because I guess the sooner the government is weined of this luxury, the sooner they could get things together and actually become the least bit more self-sufficient defense-wise...though that may not turn up in the near future...

renell

April 27th, 2005, 09:47 AM

lol, glad to see Manokski's ORBAT still alive. aah the memories:D I remember the discussions with this Cyclone Class, this is the first one right? I remember the most recent ship before that was the ones we bought (:eek: the PN bought a ship, along with its blueprints too) from the British Navy leaving Hong Kong.

What's new with the airforce Skyblade? You still updated with the best of Philippine defense forumers?

David-80

April 27th, 2005, 03:57 PM

Opus site (timawa.net) just got hacked. I got emailed from him and adroth....I would think, his old site was the best source for Phil defense, well of course other than Manoks website.

The recent update with the airforces, at least the C-130s and UH-1 are now back operational, this will help Phil Air force operation. Especially when they need to combat insurgency and terrorists. Fighter jets and highly supersonic bomber wont do much in combating the terrorists and insurgency.

cheers

Skyblade

April 27th, 2005, 06:40 PM

David-80, that is very true. Right now PAF would need to concentrate more on COIN ops at this moment...and again thats why I'd recommend getting at least something cheap and effective to "show the flag" when patrolling the EEZ so at least it wouldn't eat away the funding for the rest of the air force. I mean our OV-10s and S-211s are getting harassed a bit when patrolling in the South China Sea... I mean I'd just be satisfied w/ 2-3 Hawk trainers armed with AIM-9Ls...:runaway: As for the C-130s...yeah the numbers are growing slowly...but I can't wait to see the day when PAF would have at least 10 back operational. :D Along with the UH-1s...I hope the recovery program could increase it's pace since the current 35 (out of 100+ in inventory) has its' utilization pretty heavy and more would be a reliever.

Renell, the blueprints were of the Peacock Class Corvettes, which the PN renamed the Jacinto Class. They got three of em once the UK handed Hong Kong back while Ireland got the other two. Right now they're finally getting the awaited upgrades they deserve. :D

As for the PAF, the Air Defense component was deactivated since well....PAF dosen't have any active fighters.

Thunderflip

April 27th, 2005, 08:12 PM

Skyblade

April 28th, 2005, 02:13 AM

That's because we are not a war-loving nation! God, those poorer countries will hell spend more than us, no matter how much their funds are even in the dumps of their starving nations cuz they care a lot bout stuff like that, we don't. Money is spent in infastructure and development. I think the Philippines should be modern and equiped enough to defend itself. That's it. I just wish so much that our country was neutral. That's all. I dun really care bout all that army shit...I only think it is necessary for national defense and security but not for war. I hate war.
That's what we've been talking about...the DEFENSE of the Philippines...hence the topic name. I mean why in the heavens name would we want (more) war? The insurgency going on has bogged down the development of the Philippines and brought it behind it's potential...why would anyone want more lives lost, more damage done, and just plain out more hell to bear with? I greatly apologize if I gave you the idea of war-mongering in this thread but all I'm chatting about is the basic idea of adequate defense for the nation...nothing more...

Æsahættr

April 28th, 2005, 06:42 AM

OMG we have a millitary? 0_o

Sou-jiro

April 28th, 2005, 07:09 AM

well no one wants war...but reality is we need an upgrade...but offcourse im sure we all despise war....no one wants conflict and more innocent lives lives lost..yeh your right i think we need to upgrade just a lil' bit as mean of natural defence but n ot for promoting war... :) keep up the good info coming
skyblade :)

bagel

April 28th, 2005, 07:15 AM

War keeps people like me in business. (in a not so war-profiteery way)

renell

April 28th, 2005, 09:30 AM

Sou-jiro

April 28th, 2005, 01:07 PM

if budget is really tight at the moment...then navy can go first update on more equiped and faster vessels....they're role is more urgent at the currecnt situation...airforce can wait..

Sou-jiro

April 28th, 2005, 01:07 PM

does anyone have accurate stats of the navy or airforces...equipment at present... :)

Skyblade

April 28th, 2005, 04:04 PM

^ in what way?:D

What kinds of updates are those Peacock's going to get? The Navy has the biggest job in all three branches, imo, for our country is an archipelago. The waters between Sabah and the islands in the south are a hotspot for pirates and terrorists, and we need to give them the impression that it's not an open sea. And those WWII-era ships need to go into our museums to get some tourists:D I heard some of them joined D-Day, lol. The AFP needs to be modernised, perhaps less big ships, more faster and smaller ships. Just like how the PAF doesn't have fast fighters, but with a fleet of C130s, OV10s, Hueys and basically army transport and support.
Seriously...I mean 7,107 islands to patrol! I mean pirates and Abu Sayaaf "go fast boats" can do circles around some of the older, slower ships. Anyways yeah one of the LSTs, BRP South Cotabato (LT-87, former USS Cayuga County) DID take part in the D-Day landings at Normandy, France in 1944...and instead of being a museum piece or part of a historical society...it's still being utilized as a transport...more than 60 years later. Anyhow, to the Peacock upgrades:
The Phase I modernization involves:

1. Installation of a new Electro-Optical Tracking/Fire Control System manufactured by Radamec (Radamec 1500) and its integration with existing main gun and new 25mm gun. The new fire control system is meant to provide fire control solutions for both guns and provide a day/night/all weather engagement capability. The Radamec 1500 System was also selected by the Irish Naval Service to upgrade their ex-Royal Navy Peacocks class patrol ships. It also equips the new Irish OPS LE Roisin.

2. Installation of a new 25mm gun mount manufactured by MSI Defense Systems and its integration with the new fire control system.

3. Complete refurbishment of 76mm gun to bring it to full capability.

4. Installation and integration of new navigation systems - new Gyro Compass manufactured by Raytheon, Radar by Sperry Marine (Sperry Marine Bridge Master E Series radar), installation of new GPS system, Anemometer and EM log.

Subcontractors for Phase I are MSI Defense Systems Limited - 25mm gun mount and integration with new fire control, Ultra Electronics - electrical power systems, Sperry Marine - Radar, Raytheon - Fire Control and Navigation and Oto Melara - Main gun.

Here's all three Jacintos lined up when the program began.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/JCPVs.jpg

does anyone have accurate stats of the navy or airforces...equipment at present...

Here's the Navy:

1 Rajah Humabon Light Frigate
3 Jacinto class corvettes
1 Cyclone Class
2 Quezon class corvettes
6 Miguel Malvar class corvettes
2 Aguinaldo class large patrol craft
3 Kagitingan class patrol craft
6 Tomas Batillo class (PKM 200) patrol craft
12 Conrado Yap class (SK) patrol craft
2 Point Class cutters
24 Jose Andrada class patrol craft
6 LSTs
2 LSVs
7 LCUs
1 Repair Ship (LST hull)
6 Armored troop carriers
6 LCM Mk8
11 LCM Mk6
2 AFDL-1 Floating Dry-docks (AFDL 40 no longer in use)

Miscellaneous craft
15 locally built speedboats (on order and delivered)
3 (?) "go-fast" boats (formerly owned by the Abu Sayaff)

Air Force

F-5: 0 Operational, 15 Inventory
OV-10: 18 Operational, 33 Inventory
S-211: 7(?) Operational, 19 Inventory
SF-260TP: 7(?) Operational, 13 Inventory
T-41: ? Operational, 15 Inventory
F-27: 2 Operational, 10 Inventory
F-28: 1 Operational, 1 Inventory
Nomad: 2 Operational, 6 Inventory
C-130/L100: 3 Operational, 13 Inventory
Rockewell Aero Commander C690A 1 Operational, 1 Inventory

Rotary winged aircraft

MDH.520G: 15(?) Operational, 20 Inventory
UH-1H: 35(?) Operational, 55 + 20 +30 Inventory
B.205A-1: 5(?) Operational, 8(?) Inventory
Huey II: 1 Operational, 1 Inventory
S.76/AUH-76A: 4 Operational, 14 Inventory
Bell 412SP: 2 Operational, 2 Inventory
Bell 412EP: 5 Operational, 5 Inventory
Puma: 2 Operational, 2 Inventory
Bell 214 Huey Plus: 1(?) Operational, 1 Inventory
S-70 (UH-60): 1(?) Operational, 1 Inventory

Skyblade

April 28th, 2005, 04:13 PM

Here's a PN video:
http://www.navy.mil.ph/Dloads/pntoday_WMV.zip

I'm also trying to find the link to the PMC video I saw...

ryanr

April 28th, 2005, 04:50 PM

dudz

April 28th, 2005, 06:02 PM

forgot where i got these from...sangley point

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/imagesaver1206/SangleyPoint1.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/imagesaver1206/SangleyPoint2.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y91/imagesaver1206/SangleyRamp.jpg

Skyblade

April 28th, 2005, 09:08 PM

aw man...what a military:D I found this especially funny "go fast speed boats formally owned by Abu Sayaff":lol:

How about our army? What tanks, APCs, Humvees etc do we have? any missiles (i doubt it)?

i thought 3 of the F-5 jets are still operational? So if they are all inventory, we have no fighter jets.

Well, our government is basically focusing on consumer/capital expenditure over military. So even though our military is quite pathetic, at least our government is allocating its resources for the benefit of the Pinoy (not perfect, but good enough). Our education and healthcare is quite high compared to other developing countries. Infrastructure, even though not as fancy as lets say Thailand, is still good compared to Pakistan or India (both of which have high military expenditures).
That is true, GreyX but then again....it makes you wonder where the (nearly) 1 billion dollar budget (which is very decent for the military and dosen't take more of the GDP than some other nations) went... (don't think I need to say much on that issue :mad2: ) Compared to other nations with a smaller budget...the AFP isn't getting it's bang for the buck with all the corruption draining the budget away. The only missles believed to be in AFP inventory is the Minstral SAMs which is earmarked for the defense of Malacanang Palace, other than that...PAF has 100 AIM-9B Sidewinders sitting somewhere. Well in Clark, there's some F-5s that are maintained to keep it the least bit flyable and have engine and system startups on a regular basis. The fleet is in dire need of structural overhauls and w/o those, the F-5s are increasingly unsafe to fly which of course, resulted in the grounding of the fleet.

dudz, thanks for sharing the shots of Sangley. :D The PN and PAF use it jointly and PAF named the airfield Atienza AB after the pilot who died while on a strafing run against RAM-SFP aircraft during the 1989 coup attempt. It's home to the 15th Strike Wing which is the main force for close air support (CAS) and counterinsurgency (COIN) operations.

Sou-jiro

April 30th, 2005, 07:29 AM

http://www.abante.com.ph/issue/apr3005/pictures/news.jpg

Grounded --- Matapos ang naganap na pagbagsak ng UH-1H 324 na ikinasawi ni Red Cross Gov. Raymundo Punongbayan at walong iba pa, isa-isa ngayong binubutingting ng mga Philippine Air Force personnel ang iba pang Huey choppers ng AFP kasabay ng pag-ground dito hangga’t hindi pa natatapos ang imbestigasyon sa nasabing kaso. (AFP photo)

renell

April 30th, 2005, 02:06 PM

Good thing those Jacinto class ships are being maintenanced and updated. And yes I remember when some successful raids of Abu Sayyaf occured, the PN captured from fast boats from them. Of course what a way to beat them than with their own machinery. But it's sad our Navy is resorting to ways frequently used in the Middle Ages (using captured ships from the enemy, should it still be intact, or they didn't feel like destroying it).

As much as I love to see some F-5's flying, maintaining our planes and choppers for COIN operations is more important.

Hey what about the army? Those V-300s, V150s and Simbas in good condition? Wait, those could be marines:D What's new with our land forces?

ryanr

April 30th, 2005, 03:15 PM

Yeah, what kind of tanks and APC's do we use? Any pictures?

amras

May 1st, 2005, 06:17 AM

got this from the inquirer website:

http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home2003/tu0001es/zoom.jpg

Skyblade

May 1st, 2005, 11:03 AM

Yeah, what kind of tanks and APC's do we use? Any pictures?
Philippine Army (most pics were taken a parade so that kinda explains the spiffy looks... Copyright Opus 224)

Scorpion light tank:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/scorpion.jpg

M113:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/m113a.jpg

V-150 Commando:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/v150-3.jpg

AIFV:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/aifv.jpg

Simba:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/simba.jpg

The MX-1 Kalakian. This is an indigenous design which is basically a seriously souped up Simba.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/c_mhspkalakian01.jpg

Marines

V-300:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/v300-90a.jpg

Armored M-35 Guntruck:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/talisman.jpg

They also have the V-150 and the LVTP-5/6s in inventory along with Aquatracks and LARCs.

Last I heard of any big acquisitions, the AFP took delivery of a single Armored Recovery Vehicle (ARV) from Turkey I think. Dunno if they got any more. The condition of these vehicles are good but the LVTP-5/6s are either in storage or are operational in very small numbers (I think I heard 5 were active). The Kalakian project might going the way of the Hummingbird, Cali/Pinto, and Defiant projects. Without any additional armor, the APCs are more of a liability to troops than an asset esp. when you come across a group of Abu Sayaaf, MILF or NPA rebels armed w/ RPGs. There was a couple pics in Manok's website and also in the MILF's website (yes they have a website along w/ the NPA... :runaway: ) of a couple downed vehicles. One was a V-300 FSV (Fire Support vehicle, the one pictured above) and a Simba.

BTW Renell, it's also great to utilize those former Abu Sayaaf boats since the PN dosen't have much to throw at them at such a speed. :D On a side note, some of the PN's ships belonged to the South Vietnamese but fled across the South China Sea to escape the fall of South Vietnam...even one of the F-5s in PAF inventory served with the VNAF.

Skyblade

May 1st, 2005, 11:08 AM

Here's another article on the UH-1 Crash. God bless. :(

Former Phivolcs chief, eight others killed in helicopter crash
04/28 3:28:28 PM

MANILA (AFP) - A military helicopter carrying a group of government scientists and a Red Cross official crashed in a mountainous area of the northern Philippines on Thursday, killing all nine people on board, officials said.

Three rescue helicopters reached the crash site on the slopes of Mount Namal near the town of Gabaldon, 100 kilometers (62 miles) north of here and retrieved the bodies within hours, they added.

Among those killed were four scientists from the Philippine Institute of Volcanology and Seismology (Phivolcs) as well as their former boss, Raymundo Punongbayan, the country's most famous seismologist, according to Phivolcs chief Renato Solidum.

Punongbayan became a governor of the Filipino chapter of the Red Cross after retirement.

The helicopter's four-man crew were also killed, Solidum said.

The cause of the crash was not known, said the air force, who added that it happened under clear skies.

Senator Richard Gordon said the flight was organized by the Philippine National Red Cross to conduct an aerial inspection of a planned resettlement site for victims of last November's deadly landslides around the town of Dingalan, near Gabaldon.

"I received a message from the Office of Civil Defense that unfortunately, all the passengers died," said Phivolcs chief Renato Solidum.

"The aircraft exploded but we don't know if it was upon impact or while in mid-air," said Senior Inspector Pablo Cruz, police chief of Gabaldon, who was among the first at the crash scene.

"We don't want to speculate on the cause of the accident, though we are not discounting the (possibility) that there could have been ... environmental reasons that caused the crash," said Air Force spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Restituto Padilla.

Gordon, the chairman of the Filipino Red Cross chapter, said on local television that Punongbayan had inspected the resettlement area by land last week.

"He said he identified potential areas of danger (of further landslides) and he wanted to confirm it by air. So I went to Secretary (Avelino) Cruz of the Department of National Defense to borrow a helicopter," Gordon added.

Sou-jiro

May 1st, 2005, 12:48 PM

wow!....yeh that crush was saddening..Raymundo Punongbayan was a nice & important
citizen in our Country..he has made a great contribution in volcanology.And even in Red Cross.

Dr_Joe

May 1st, 2005, 04:11 PM

PAF's S-211
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/main-s2111.jpg

PN's Jacinto class
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/PS371.jpg

PN's Peackock class
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/pc-10-DNST9501544.jpg

PN patrol boat
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/pg1121.jpg

PM's V-300
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/philimar_V300-6.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/phil_v150v300simba.jpg

PA's Light Reaction Company
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/r18385262211.jpg

Dr_Joe

May 1st, 2005, 04:58 PM

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/lsv550.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/P3010028.jpg

Skyblade

May 1st, 2005, 09:34 PM

PN's Peackock class
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/pc-10-DNST9501544.jpg

PN patrol boat
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/enriquezdave/mil/pg1121.jpg

The top one is actually a Cyclone Class Patrol Craft. As mentioned, it's the latest addition to the Philippine Navy and the youngest among the larger surface combatants.

The patrol craft is of the Tomas Batillo Class.

In Dr. Joe's top pic in his last reply, it's another Tomas Batillo Class patrol boat alongside a Besson Class LSV: the youngest large transports in the fleet, just delivered a decade ago and a major reliever to the WWII LSTs currently in use.

Here's a synopsis on the Navy from Manok's Orbat:

Basically, you can divide the Philippine Navy into three distinct groups - the small craft, inshore patrol craft navy, the "large" ship navy and the amphibious/logistics support ship navy. The former is relatively new, modern and efficient while the later two groups, with the exception of a few ships, are old, decrepit and in need of immediate replacement.

The core of the modern small craft navy is composed of Halter-Marine 78 foot gunboats (built in US and Philippine shipyards) as well as two classes of South Korean designed and built boats plus a smattering of local and German built units. All are relatively modern and have proven quite useful in controlling smuggling, piracy and the rebels in the areas where they operate. The problem is that given the size of the waters they need to patrol, there are not enough of them, nor are there enough funds to fully utilize these assets. Furthermore, while these ships are useful in patrolling inshore and littoral waters, their small size and limited range limits their usefulness in protecting the outer fringes of the 200 mile EEZ.

The core of the large ship navy are the six former US Patrol Craft Escorts/Escort Rescue ships, two ex-US Navy Auk class former minesweepers, one ex-US Admirable class ship, one Canon class frigate, all of the same World War II vintage. In 1997, these old ships were augmented by three Peacock class patrol ships that together form the most capable component of the fleet. These ships are used for longer range EEZ patrols, fishery protection, showing the flag around the Spratlys, naval gunfire support and other missions requiring longer range, sea-keeping ability and staying power. Some of the areas that the navy has to patrol have rough seas even in good weather (i.e., northern Luzon, between Taiwan and Batanes) where it is prudent not to use the smaller gunboats.

Compared to the larger combatants, the amphibious ships are no younger. With the exception of two modern US built Logistics Support Vessels, the Navy depends on 6 LSTs built in the 1940s plus a number of smaller amphibious craft.

While the years of underinvestment has taken its toll and various capabilities have been lost (i.e., mine warfare and anti-submarine warfare to point out the most obvious), it has managed to maintain minimum capabilities in some areas (i.e., amphibious warfare, naval gunfire support), and improve on some others (i.e.. anti-piracy, anti-smuggling). However, it's most telling deficiency is the lack of an anti-ship missile capability. Some foreign analysts say that as long as the Philippine Navy cannot field a minimum number of anti-ship missiles, other navies will not take it seriously. A situation which could invite further aggression.

While the PN has not improved it's conventional warfare capabilities much in the past year, COIN and anti-piracy/counter terrorism capabilities has increased markedly. Not the least of which is the commissioning of one ex-USN Cyclone class Patrol Craft/Special forces transport. There is also an added incentive to improve conventional and unconventional defenses around the western seas around the Philippines notably with the development of offshore natural gas deposits in the Malampaya area. The PN is currently negotiating with Sweden for the delivery of four Combat Boat 90s to improve on its ability to deploy special operations forces in defense of the natural gas area. One of the boats is to be paid for out of Navy modernization funds while the remainder are to paid for with funds provided by the Philippine Energy department.

To make more efficient use of its limited resources, the PN is establishing Radar Observation stations at specific choke points around the country. The stations are equipped with tower mounted Coastal Surveillance radar as well as radio and land line communications linked with PN headquarters. Six (?) stations are currently operating with a further two currently being bid out for commissioning in the next couple of years.

bagel

May 8th, 2005, 08:19 PM

Commentary : Taming the military

Posted 00:30am (Mla time) May 08, 2005
By Luis V. Teodoro
Inquirer News Service

Editor's Note: Published on page A15 of the May 8,
2005 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer

THE MILITARY'S reckless tagging of legal groups as
communist fronts, its probable role in the killing,
abduction and harassment of political activists, and
the continuing possibility of coup attempts not only
recall the martial law period. These are also
reminders that the military has not changed much, and
is still driven by Cold War and authoritarian
assumptions.

Nineteen years after Edsa 1986 and despite the repeal
of the Anti-Subversion Law (RA 1700), the Armed Forces
of the Philippines still describes materials seized
from alleged New People's Army guerrillas as
"subversive documents," and militant groups as
"subversive organizations."

Military propaganda declares rebellions to be the
causes rather than the consequences of poverty,
injustice and mass misery. Protests are threats to the
state and conspiracies are hatched by evil groups, not
legitimate attempts to redress real grievances.

Its Marcos-era views and its own weaknesses shape the
military's response to everything-from the
participation of party-list groups in elections to
local guerrilla activity. In the Philippine
countryside, where mass support is essential to the
defeat of insurgency, soldiers act like marauding
bands. Haphazardly trained, and poorly equipped and
supplied because of officer corruption, some rob and
beat residents, harass women, and arrest, torture or
even kill those they suspect of rebel sympathies.

High-level corruption subverts the AFP's capacity to
fight, as well as the very state it protects. But
senior officers see no irony in describing certain
groups as "legal" but "subversive," and therefore
legitimate targets.

Its politicization during the martial law period has
been blamed for the military's current state. But the
armed forces had been politicized long before 1972.
Founded during the American occupation, it was from
birth a political instrument for the defense of the
new colonial regime and the suppression of the
remaining fighters of the Philippine Revolution.

The new regime used the military to curb social unrest
and sporadic rebellions. The military also suppressed
Moro resistance, and implemented the Christian
settlement policy that eventually made Muslims a
minority in Mindanao. After 1946, it was focused less
on defending the country against external enemies than
on dismantling Muslim and other rebel groups. Its
officers' commitment to the defense of the economic,
social and political order was amply demonstrated
during the Carlos P. Garcia presidency, when AFP
generals were involved in a plot to oust Garcia should
he persist in his Filipino First policy.

By sharing power with its leading officers, Ferdinand
Marcos gave the military unprecedented political
prominence. But its history had long prepared it for
the role it played during the martial law period and
after.

A politicized and unreformed military is a perennial
threat to democratization. To flourish, democracy
needs dissent and criticism as well as the lawful
transfer of power via honest elections. The Philippine
military has demonstrated its contempt for the former,
and through gross partisanship last year, its disdain
for the latter.

When Filipinos express fears over military
adventurism, they presume that purely military rule
would ensue in the event of a coup, but every coup
attempt in this country has included a civilian
component. Unlike the military establishments of
Indonesia, Thailand and Burma (Myanmar), the
Philippine military has always relied on civilian
patronage. The probable reason lies in its history and
the socialization of its officers. The US colonial
regime emphasized the dominance of civilian power over
the military, and enshrined it in the Philippine
Military Academy as a basic principle.

The anti-Garcia coup plot in the 1960s was thus not a
purely military conspiracy, but was led by politicians
with links to the US Central Intelligence Agency. The
military was Marcos' servant and never his master in
implementing and consolidating martial rule. Edsa 1986
overthrew Marcos, but demonstrated that the military
alone can neither seize nor hold power. Civilian
conspirators masterminded the coup attempts during the
Aquino presidency. In 2003, the Oakwood mutiny was
part of a bigger plot similarly involving, if not
masterminded by, civilians.

The killing of activists, the seeming pre-eminence of
former and active generals in government, the
resurgence of human rights violations, and the
martial-law era approach to the Moro and NPA
insurgencies have revived speculations that the
present government has lost control of the military.

This view assumes that the civilian government has one
policy and the military another. But it was a civilian
bureaucrat, National Security Adviser Norberto
Gonzales, who was loudest during the 2004 elections in
describing Bayan Muna, Gabriela, Anak Pawis, etc. as
fronts of the Communist Party. Echoed in the
military's "Knowing the Enemy" briefing, the labeling
suspiciously occurred as the killing of activists and
community leaders was escalating.

President Macapagal-Arroyo's silence was deafening
then, but is even more deafening now. Despite the
killing of activists-50 since 2001-and protests over
the military's labeling of legal party-list, labor,
youth, farmers', workers', fisherfolk, women's, media
and church groups as CPP fronts, she has maintained a
silence that has been interpreted as approval.

Divided, weakened by corruption, and without strong
leaders, the military is easily controlled by its
civilian overseers. The Arroyo government is thus able
to implement, through the AFP, a policy based on the
dual tactics of negotiations and aggressive military
efforts against the CPP's "legal machinery."

Criticism of military excesses, short-sightedness and
corruption has correctly led to criticism of the
Arroyo government and its Marcos-era approach to
insurgency, dissent and human rights. Taming the
military will require the taming of the civilian
bureaucracy.

Luis V. Teodoro is a professor of journalism at the
University of the Philippines.

Skyblade

May 11th, 2005, 06:10 AM

Here's an oldie but goodie:

Is the AFP still effective?

Updated 10:43pm (Mla time) Nov 08, 2004
By Bambi Harper
Inquirer News Service

Editor's Note: Published on page A13 of the November 9, 2004 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer.

WILL cleansing the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) of scalawags restore its fitness as an effective fighting force? You are well within your rights to wonder what has gotten into me to be writing an article on the military. But hear me out. I received an e-mail that I believe is relevant to you and to many others because the things that are happening are not happening in some remote planet nor to another people but to us.

The writer claims that he seeks to uncover some relevant facts that the congressional hearings and media have not yet revealed. One of them concerned the Oakwood mutiny, which, though it lasted only 20 hours, "left troubling concerns about the readiness of the Armed Forces of the Philippines to effectively prosecute its war against terrorism." The Scout Rangers and Special Warfare Marines were trained by the US and needed to support another campaign against the Abu Sayaff. But since they mutinied, "many ...will either be cashiered or no longer be trusted
with important commands." One can always train more people but the writer claims that they mutinied because "the leadership failed them." It should thrill us to no end to know that the leadership is still around.

Prior to the Oakwood incident, a survey was supposed to have been conducted by the US and Philippine governments, called the Joint Defense Assessment (JDA), to fix the army's shortcomings. (The title of "Joint Defense Assessment" has been changed to "Philippine Defense Review [PDR] to emphasize that the ball is now on our court." If that's the case it must be on freeze). The defense secretary at the time was Angelo Reyes whose resignation the mutineers demanded. The mutiny came and went followed by the Feliciano Commission investigation, followed by Maj. Gen. Carlos Garcia's version of "institutional entitlement" (graft and corruption to you) and still the implementation of the JDA remains in limbo. Has anyone asked the former defense secretary why?

The other question that my correspondent wanted to know was why the JDA survey remains classified since the nature of the AFP's weaknesses and vulnerabilities are known to anyone who bothers to read the Feliciano report and the report probes the roots and the provocations that inspired the rebellion anyway. Now how different can those two reports be?

With regard to the modernization of the AFP, my correspondent says he was informed that the US has pledged $160 million (P9 billion) to finance the PDR provided Manila coughed up the equivalent amount." Now where did the US expect us to find that kind of money? Remember the money from the sale of Fort Bonifacio was supposed to be used to modernize the AFP. According to the writer, "the proceeds of the sale of the Fort Bonifacio property was pledged by law to the AFP's modernization program but instead of being deposited in a trust fund for that purpose, they reverted to the general fund where they virtually disappeared because of a host of other national needs to be met."

No one seems to know exactly where the money went. In a hearing, a senator asked former president Fidel V. Ramos the question, to which he huffily replied, "Nandyan lang 'yan." [It's just lying around.] So where is it and how come nobody's asking how the law was circumvented?

It is rumored that the PDR deals with reforming the AFP's entire personnel, procurement and maintenance system. To make the AFP a more capable fighting force, the survey recommends that it should improve the Armed Forces' "tail-to-tooth ratio" -- the number of non-combat personnel needed to support troops in the field. The AFP's ratio of non-combat personnel to field troops is 10 to 1! The standard applied worldwide is 70:30 or 2.3 to 1. Apparently, the AFP has more Indian chiefs than warriors.

About 83 percent of the total AFP budget goes to personnel (salaries), which may explain why the Scout Rangers are griping about inadequate housing and low hazard pay, not to mention the lack of ammunition to fight the enemy.

In the Philippine Air Force (PAF), officers apparently brought up the issue that blatant favoritism and disproportionate pilot-to-aircraft ratio cause delay in promotion and training. According to the Feliciano Commission, the PAF currently has 1,018 pilots with the ranks of lieutenant to lieutenant general. By last count, the number of operational aircraft was a mere 62. The ratio of pilots to operational aircraft is a very lopsided 16:1! The ideal ratio is three pilots to every aircraft. The PAF has a lot of pilots idling their time away.

My correspondent estimates that only 15 Huey helicopters and five Bell helicopters are airworthy. Since there are more than 280 pilots assigned to them, the resulting ratio is 14:1 According to the PAF, it's not that they have excess pilots but that they lack aircraft which (here we go again) was to have been purchased with the proceeds from the sale of Fort Bonifacio.

TO BE fair, government has never had a good record for maintenance. All you need to do is look at public buildings to realize that either there is no allocation for maintenance or the budget is used elsewhere. It isn't surprising then that a key recommendation of the Philippine Defense Review addresses the poor record of equipment maintenance of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP).

Philippine officials admit that hand-me-down helicopters from the US are constantly being cannibalized to keep the remaining ones flying. They also report that of eight C-130s in the Philippine Air Force (PAF) inventory, including two transferred by the US after President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo’s first visit to Washington in November 2001, only two are still "mission-capable." Some weeks ago, a C-130 burst its tires upon landing at Ninoy Aquino International Airport and international flights were delayed for six hours. Have the tires been replaced?

As of last count, the PAF aircraft inventory added up to a total of 225, but only 28 percent or 62 are operational. Out of the remaining 163, 109 are "grounded." Nearly half of the aircraft on the PAF list serve no useful purpose.

Some of these 109 planes were sidelined because they are already obsolete, parts are no longer available for repair or because they were simply worn out due to excessive use. However, a good number of grounded planes and helicopters are the remains of cannibalized aircraft, as the Philippine Defense Review stated.

Fifty-four PAF planes and helicopters are "parked" for inspection and maintenance. The PAF claims these are "supportable" because its budget provides for the purchase of spare parts and repair. Given the fiscal crisis and the questionable whereabouts of the funds from the sale of the Fort Bonifacio military base, is there any money available? Does the PAF have any choice other than to cannibalize their aircraft again? (If the funds from the sale of Bonifacio are in the general fund, why aren't they being used for the purpose intended?)

The Feliciano Commission noted the plight of wounded soldiers who cannot immediately be airlifted to the nearest medical facility. It tells of "a macabre but true story of a dead soldier being carried around for three days by a combat patrol for lack of a helicopter to pick up the body." A visit to the south "revealed many carcasses of old vehicles lying around in depots, cannibalized and eviscerated."

After reviewing the "sad and obsolete state of AFP equipage," the Feliciano Commission revealed that: (1) the PAF needs to improve its capacity to provide close support for ground forces; (2) the Philippine Navy needs more patrol vessels and a long-range patrol aircraft; and (3) the Philippine Army needs to replace old equipage such as old radios which require dozens of heavy D-sized batteries and even the basic weapon, the antiquated M-16 rifle, which easily malfunctions because of age.

However, the Philippine Defense Review wants less emphasis on acquisitions and more resources invested in operation and maintenance. Indeed, it urges contracting out maintenance work to the more efficient private sector.

What is the AFP budget for maintenance? The Department of Budget and Management says the total proposed budget of the AFP is P46.2 billion, broken down into P36 billion for personnel (78 percent), P10.2 billion for maintenance and other operation expense (22 percent), and a token P43.1 million for capital outlay (0.1 percent). Though the budget for maintenance is insufficient, Sen. Miriam Santiago asserts that the allocation for maintenance is fair game for "conversion".

AFP procurement scandals have been exposed by Congress and the media. In our scandal-ridden society, bad news always makes headlines and good news is hidden in the inner pages of newspapers and in unread reports.

The good news is that small steps have been taken to implement the PAF modernization program. The Feliciano Commission announced that P127.4 million has been released for the Air Force modernization program. Although this is only 4.5 percent of the P2.9 billion programmed, it is a hopeful sign that modernizing the PAF has at least started.

The commission also acknowledged that P251 million was released by the National Treasury apparently for the acquisition of some new squad automatic weapons (SAWs) for the AFP. This amount is equivalent to five percent of the P5.5 billion ($97.4 million) set aside in a special account for the AFP modernization program.

Another promising sign is the proposal of the Department of Budget and Management and the Department of Finance to allocate in the forthcoming budget P264.7 million for the AFP Modernization Fund. The AFP modernization program is being implemented, but very gradually. The token P43.1 million for capital outlay in the PAF budget is being supplemented by drawings from the AFP Modernization Fund.

From what country will the SAWs be procured? It is alleged that some resourceful and unscrupulous European and Asian international trade brokers and their agents approach governments of developing nations and entice them to buy their requirements from them. They try to lure their customers away from US vendors because it would be easier to pocket money from them than Americans who have to worry about their anti-bribery laws.

During the Corazon Aquino administration, the AFP bought about 10 S211 Marchetti Jet Trainers from Italy via Singapore. For any one who's curious, it would be interesting to find out if any of these are still in use, how many of them have crashed and what was their overall performance rating. Were there any re-orders? And if not, why not?

TheCameraReturns

May 12th, 2005, 11:45 AM

During the Corazon Aquino administration, the AFP bought about 10 S211 Marchetti Jet Trainers from Italy via Singapore. For any one who's curious, it would be interesting to find out if any of these are still in use, how many of them have crashed and what was their overall performance rating. Were there any re-orders? And if not, why not?[/QUOTE]

Weren't the S211s dubbed "flying coffins" or something to that effect, due to the number of crashes they were involved in? The BAe Hawk would have been a much better deal. Equipped with a pair of the latest AIM9 Sidewinders, they would at least be semi-respectable.

renell

May 12th, 2005, 02:07 PM

Any plane would be flying coffins with the AFP's flawed budget distribution, something that was mentioned in the last article. I believe Singapore has S211's and they ain't no coffin to them. It's all about maintenance.

Skyblade

May 13th, 2005, 08:28 PM

Weren't the S211s dubbed "flying coffins" or something to that effect, due to the number of crashes they were involved in? The BAe Hawk would have been a much better deal. Equipped with a pair of the latest AIM9 Sidewinders, they would at least be semi-respectable.
As Renell said, it's all about the maintenence...and the money that gets the maintenence done ;). PAF may have fine mechanics but when it comes to continuously do their job w/ a limited budget, then they could only go so far... Well the original plan was to use the S.211 as a light trainer and then pilots would upgrade to the Hawk...but the PAF purchase of the Hawk never materlialized and they pretty much settled w/ only the S.211. I dunno if the S.211 can support AIM-9s, all I heard is that it can mount a machine gun on the centerline and have a couple wing hardpoints for light ordinance or fuel tanks. The latter is more often used since w/ the fuel tanks, the S.211 has enough fuel to patrol around the Spratleys. One thing that might interest PAF if they want to keep their S.211 fleet is to maybe upgrade it to M-311 standards. The M-311 is a hyped up S.211 that has digital avionics, HOTAS, a strengthened airframe and landing gear, and a upraded P&WC JT15D-5C turbofan. It should at least keep the pilots up to date w/ the latest technology at a modest price (I presume >>;; ) and gives them something modern to play with.

Skyblade

May 17th, 2005, 04:43 AM

Here's some more pics of the AFP exercise in Boracay (I posted some in the Boaracay Island thread):

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050513/capt.xpr10405131120.philippines_anti_terrorism_exercise_xpr104.jpg?x=380&y=285&sig=oTJ7CncQ0NwtVkPopzMQMw--

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050513/capt.xpr10205131101.philippines_anti_terrorism_exercise_xpr102.jpg?x=380&y=288&sig=SkoqF6tVW1Edr75dslarsQ--

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050513/capt.xpr10105131056.philippines_anti_terrorism_exercise_xpr101.jpg?x=380&y=274&sig=XGeaj_AZO87qfbHsDCZdgQ--

bagel

May 17th, 2005, 05:55 AM

Boybaha's comment:
Is this really a way to run a democracy? Have your military detain anybody critical of the government? Does protest, any protest, mean that it is a communist action? And even if it were communist, does the silencing of dissent bespeak a free democracy? Shouldn't the days of the Desaparecidos be banished to the Ferdinand Marcos past? If so, why are there still disappearances to this day?

Quotes for the day, May 16, 2005

"Pasensya na kayo sa paisa-isang kinukuha at
ninunyutralisa natin sa mga baryo. Kailangan nating
gawin iyon dahil kung hindi natin inaalis ang
paisa-isang bulok na mansanas ay mabubulok ang lahat."

-Gen. Palparan, in Eastern Visayas

Palparan had announced will abduct one peasant
activist every month. If the people protest the
abduction, the AFP would kill the detained peasant
activist because, according to Palparan, the protests
would prove that the residents have indeed been
organized by the NPA. Some kind of logic.

"... yung masasamang tao na nawawala, mabuti naman na
mawala sila. These are the bad eggs. Gumagawa sila ng
kagaguhan. They are the ones killing people. If you do
not do anything, patuloy lang silang gagawa ng masama.
Ngayon, kinuha ang mga ito, tinanong-tanong, galit
kayo."

- Gen. Palparan, when asked about forced
disappearances in Catbalogan.

"Kung tinatawag akong berdugo, berdugo na nga. I will
not deny, but also I will not admit.... The more
you (referring to the media) talk about it, the more I
will be inspired."

- Gen. Palparan when asked to comment on his bloody
record as the "Butcher of Mindoro" from 2001 to 2004.

"Nabuo yung Alsa Masa sa Mindoro noong dumating ako.
Kumikilos ang mga ito sa alanganing oras. May sarili
silang pagkilos. Hindi na kami makapahinga kung pati
lahat ng pagkilos nila ay susubaybayan namin.
Nakatutulong naman sila sa paglaban sa NPA. Gayundin
ang mga katulad ng RHB."

- Gen. Palparan, on the AFP's responsibility for
creating paramilitary vigilante groups that carry out
some of the dirty work for the military.

"Dahil tamad ang mga tao rito at ayaw magtrabaho para
pahusayin ang kabuhayan nila."

- Gen. Palparan, on why the revolutionary movement is
strong in Samar

The complete MP3 of the 2-hour interview is available
at www.samarnews.com

renell

May 17th, 2005, 09:47 AM

Here's some more pics of the AFP exercise in Boracay (I posted some in the Boaracay Island thread):

what was the idea of this exercise on our most famous island resort?

TheCameraReturns

May 17th, 2005, 11:35 AM

I suppose it is to assure the tourists that their security is being looked after.. I think that it is downright silly. If they are to have a firefight with terrorists on the beach in the midst of all these tourists, then the authorities will already have failed in doing their job.

Skyblade

May 17th, 2005, 06:54 PM

what was the idea of this exercise on our most famous island resort?
Muscle-flexing to the tourists and showing off their latest weapons... :lol: I mean look, they even sent two of their best ships to this exercise, a Cyclone on the left and a Peacock/Jacinto Corvette on the right:
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050514/i/r1895812800.jpg?x=380&y=223&sig=PjnGAoQe4vxJDU_.4XgCCw--

Skyblade

May 17th, 2005, 07:02 PM

Lili

May 17th, 2005, 07:04 PM

Lili

May 17th, 2005, 07:09 PM

If these quotes are really attributed to him, eh talagang berdugo nga yang Gen. Palpakan er Palparan na yan! Unless there is a suspension of the writ of habeas corpus, he cannot summarily arrest or detain anybody. What are the civil rights and human rights activists and lawyers doing in the country?

amras

May 17th, 2005, 08:42 PM

They are probably at Boracay watching those military exercises "ek-ek"

Lili

May 17th, 2005, 08:54 PM

If you were a tourist or on vacation, will you feel more secure if you see that there is a miltary exercise being conducted on the beach?

bagel

May 17th, 2005, 09:12 PM

I don't know... stories of seeing fully armed military while I'm on vacation may not be good ones to tell. Vacation means I need to put away thoughts of violence. To be reminded of it in such a visceral manner would be an interruption of my worry-free time.

Lili

May 17th, 2005, 09:14 PM

@ Boybaha

so true, so true...

I wonder who's that nincompoop who decided to have that military display in Boracay. Corny!

Skyblade

May 18th, 2005, 02:30 AM

What are the civil rights and human rights activists and lawyers doing in the country?Maybe getting detained, executed, w/e thanks to the likes of this numbnut... :bleep:

TheCameraReturns

May 18th, 2005, 10:57 AM

[QUOTE=Skyblade]Muscle-flexing to the tourists and showing off their latest weapons... :lol: I mean look, they even sent two of their best ships to this exercise, a Cyclone on the left and a Peacock/Jacinto Corvette on the right:

Not to mention the latest H&K G36 Assault rifles complete with Aimpoint sights! You won't see any of the new equipment with the frontline troops in Mindanao. I suppose they're all reserved for the "favored" units.

I can't imagine how these soldiers feel. Are they feeling "macho"? Or just silly, lining up on the beach in the middle of tourist season and pretending to engage terrorists?

jbkayaker12

May 18th, 2005, 11:49 AM

Someguy

"Defense" iho look up the word online, nakakahiya. You seem so serious on your post and yet your spelling of the term "Defense" does not give your post credibility.

Thank you for mentioning the typo error on "credibility" it.

bagel

May 18th, 2005, 11:55 AM

Someguy

"Defense" iho look up the word online, nakakahiya. You seem so serious on your post and yet your spelling of the term "Defense" does not give your post credebility.

Sheesh... I'm not perfect myself (I type way too fast for my brain to keep up) but a post correcting somebody's spelling loses its credibility when "credibility" itself is mispelled. Iho.

Edit: By the way, "defence" is the British spelling of defense. As Someguy is in Australia, I would think that the use of "defence" is defensible. Peace. :cheers:

Sou-jiro

May 18th, 2005, 12:40 PM

Someguy

"Defense" iho look up the word online, nakakahiya. You seem so serious on your post and yet your spelling of the term "Defense" does not give your post credebility.

OW and so what!!! this is just a thread.... people on this forum, seem to get it,... as they happily have the discussion...ur a freackin perfectionist!......i dont have time for people like you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You seem to be critical on these forums....ow and dont call me iho....TANDA!!!!!..............mas nakakahiya ka nho....

palakpakan natin si jbkayaker...his a superstar...ok men!! are you happy now?....have a beer...
...as i said i have no time for people like you.......
pinagtatawanan ko lang mga katulad mo nho...kuno!......grow up....ur not a prof to correct me like that...atleast i know im not perfect!..i never did say i am!...if you dont like it here dont post!

btw thanks to those peaceful guys who post they're views here that actually create an informative conversation...unlike tanda...its time for you to go to an old folks home..

i remember when u kept on making a big deal on that guy who was just asking the pic asking if the pic was on BGC..everyone didnt make a big deal about it... But you just kept going.... you fool!....thats what you're trying to do here...

Sou-jiro

May 18th, 2005, 12:47 PM

good point boybaha!......i guess it just shows how dumb jbcaracas is...he thinks he's perfect...credebility (check your spelling caracas) daw!!! hahahah iho daw................lintik....kakatawa ka !!!haha kuno!

ur so ignorant u dont find out facts before you say something of your foolish mouth!

its just like the difference in for us here in Australia/U.K. U.S....SAME MEANING, DIFFERENT SPELLING....we have a british influence here on many aspects..not just words..

colour------color
meter------metre
center-----centre....
kerb-------curb
organise------organize
railway-----railroad
anti clockwise-----counter clockwise

and so hence......

defense----defence

Your just proving your ignorance on the English language so dont correct me mag aral ka muna IHO...hanggang camera ka lang.

i put defence because i was used to that living here...NO MISUNDERSTANDING MEANT THERE...everyone seems to get the point...except you...well if you cant contribute to a healthy discussion here ..dont post men!....your not welcome here....

ow btw!....im sleepy na kci kaya maybe may spelling error ulit me.....why dont you look for it...........baka may makita if there is..... let me know...ok yan,.. enjoy while you're having a beer....its on me buddy....haha :cheers: :cheers:

for the record...defence isnt a spelling error caracas....if you look on my past posts here i was actually spelling the word in both DEFENSE and also DEFENCE)...BOBO...get your facts right

there are countries that spell defense---defence----not just Australia,...U.K.,..New Zealand...and maybe others...

Lili

May 18th, 2005, 04:19 PM

uy! guerra patani na naman! this time, totoo -- word war! not like those pseudo-war exercises in the photos. this time, I won't intervene, mediate or arbitrate. It was a futile exercise before. shucks! enjoy na lang!

Skyblade

May 18th, 2005, 06:42 PM

Muscle-flexing to the tourists and showing off their latest weapons... :lol: I mean look, they even sent two of their best ships to this exercise, a Cyclone on the left and a Peacock/Jacinto Corvette on the right:

Not to mention the latest H&K G36 Assault rifles complete with Aimpoint sights! You won't see any of the new equipment with the frontline troops in Mindanao. I suppose they're all reserved for the "favored" units.

I can't imagine how these soldiers feel. Are they feeling "macho"? Or just silly, lining up on the beach in the middle of tourist season and pretending to engage terrorists?

Good I wasn't the only one that noticed the new G36. ;)

Anyhow yeah it's just earmarked for SWAG, dunno if the Scout Rangers, PSG, or Special Forces also got it. One thing you notice as well is that these guys are wearing kevlar vests and helmets, something that would be a blessing for our troops fighting "naked" in combat at Mindanao, eastern Samar and other parts where these guerillas are ever present. Instead we see these things being utilized in a beach of a famous resort island...in front of tourists...looking like they lost their way to the battlefield... :nuts:

jbkayaker12

May 19th, 2005, 08:55 AM

Im just making a comment here, at least I have the balls to mention it to Someguy but I guess some of you in here cant handle strong opinions, oh well!!

Defense derived from the Latin word Defensa.

renell

May 19th, 2005, 09:14 AM

but a post correcting somebody's spelling loses its credibility when "credibility" itself is mispelled. Iho.

:lol: :laugh:

I love it how the AFP shows off with its newest weapons in front of the camera lens.

Btw anyone got Navy insider info, does the PN use all of their WWII-era ships. I mean, there's quite a number, are all used, or some are in anchor somewhere, for spare parts or for lack of fuel?

jbkayaker12

May 19th, 2005, 10:05 AM

Skyblade

May 19th, 2005, 10:28 PM

:lol: :laugh:

Btw anyone got Navy insider info, does the PN use all of their WWII-era ships. I mean, there's quite a number, are all used, or some are in anchor somewhere, for spare parts or for lack of fuel?
Um well the Cannon/Rajah Humabon is definitely being used esp. for patrols in west of Palawan since the smaller ships don't have range nor the endurance, the remaining LSTs are being highly utilized since the large transport fleet is just down to them and 2 Besson Class LCVs. PCEs and Auks, I guess most of them are floating around doing something though I never really hear much of them in action lately.

Here's some pics of the BRP Rizal (PS-76, Auk Class, courtesy of Manokski's orbat):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/Philippine%20military/PS745.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/Philippine%20military/ps74_40mm.jpg

Not bad considering the age of the ship.

Lili

May 19th, 2005, 10:49 PM

So anyone want to add their take on the word
"defense". Latin word "Defensa".

Renell, I noticed you like to interject your opinions on everything. What's your take on this. I know you want to be a moderator, too bad someone else got the position.

Oops. Now you're training the crosshair on our bunsoy Renell. Nananahimik yung tao eh. Unless, Renell, you want to interject.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050513/capt.xpr10105131056.philippines_anti_terrorism_exercise_xpr101.jpg?x=380&y=274&sig=XGeaj_AZO87qfbHsDCZdgQ-- http://img61.echo.cx/img61/9633/photopermit3xs.png (http://www.imageshack.us)
Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting (http://www.imageshack.us)

Teka, dun muna ako sa The Picture Album 2 kasi may burgeoning loveteam dun (Bea and John Lloyd). Para naman may balance -- War and Love. Feeling so corny today :).

Peugeot206

May 20th, 2005, 03:43 AM

thank you for mentioning the typo error on the word "credibility"

good catch!

So anyone want to add their take on the word
"defense". Latin word "Defensa".

Renell, I noticed you like to interject your opinions on everything. What's your take on this. I know you want to be a moderator, too bad someone else got the position.

Note to everyone, myself included this is a public forum so unsolicited critcisms or opinions of others will come whether we like it or not.

I’ll bite; emerging from years of lurking to comment on this post and this thread.

Having been schooled in Canada and the UK, I am obviously more partial to the spelling ‘defence’ over ‘defense’. Having been ‘intimately’ involved with the British military and the UK Ministry of Defence, I am even more inclined to use the former.

And, having studied Latin for many years during my schooling, I reject the idea that a spelling is correct simply because it more closely resembles its Latin root. As your ‘dictionary.com’ search no doubt taught you the etymology of ‘defence’, you will know that this word has come to us from a Latin verb tense over the centuries via Old French and Middle English. Words, their specific meaning, and their spelling change over time. The impetus of these changes can be something as frivolous as Samuel Johnson forming new words in his dictionary, a monk being lazy in copying transcripts, or people becoming lazy in pronouncing words and dropping syllables. I would propose that the widespread usage of a word agreed to have a certain meaning and spelt in a certain manner ultimately determines its correctness.

But this correctness is certainly not fixed through time and in all contexts.

This is indeed the case with the UK/Commonwealth spelling of ‘defence’ as opposed to the American spelling of ‘defense’. We in the UK/Commonwealth all express the idea of ‘defence’ in the written form as ‘defence’. The fact that Americans choose to express the same idea in the written form as ‘defense’ certainly does not make our spelling incorrect.

Beyond the Latin criterion you use for correctness, I would say that it is more likely that the spelling ‘defence’ is used more often by more people as the one billion inhabitants of India use British spelling conventions.

In any case, to discredit this thread and the original poster for his spelling of ‘defence’ is absurd. Would you discredit the authors of anything originating from an academic institution in the UK/Commonwealth because they use ‘defence’ and other words whose spelling is a more corrupt form of its Latin origin? Scholars at Oxbridge would not be amused. Actually, they might be. Small minds linger on small things.

Credebililty. Heh.

The reason I took the effort to write this is that your post is an example of a character flaw that hampers development in the Philippines. This is essentially an informative military thread. However, you attack spelling for some unknown reason.

I can imagine Philippine senators rejecting bill after bill after bill for trivial reasons in some misguided effort to gain personal notoriety and simply exercising power for the sake of power at the expense of some much needed legislation.

Less sanguine people could be discouraged from posting any more, and people like me, who are quite interested in developments in the Philippine military, have one less source of information.

Kudos to Someguy and others for barrelling on with this thread.

Sou-jiro

May 20th, 2005, 11:27 AM

look Jbkayaker12...just end the topic ok.....!! leave the people alone.....i've made made my point...you've made yours....let it end...i wont say more on this matter...

show some maturity and stop it.....this is the last i'll say on this issue....thanks for your posts guys.....lets get back to the real topic now...kudos guys...

Sou-jiro

May 20th, 2005, 11:41 AM

Thanks Peugeot206....

Sou-jiro

May 20th, 2005, 11:41 AM

i wonder what the tourist thought when they had the exercise there?....wont that kinda alarm them a bit?...i mean there are kids there and those guys are roaming around with heavy artillery?...haha .... :)

Sou-jiro

May 20th, 2005, 11:44 AM

back to topic.....

Do you guys have any update on the American troups in Phil?...i always hear a mention on them kasi on AM stations such as dzbb or dzrh.....not very popular to the public....but i do hear callers on these talk show who actually support them....i suppose it has its good and bads...in terms of effect to our country.

jbkayaker12

May 20th, 2005, 12:15 PM

I’ll bite; emerging from years of lurking to comment on this post and this thread.

Having been schooled in Canada and the UK, I am obviously more partial to the spelling ‘defence’ over ‘defense’. Having been ‘intimately’ involved with the British military and the UK Ministry of Defence, I am even more inclined to use the former.

And, having studied Latin for many years during my schooling, I reject the idea that a spelling is correct simply because it more closely resembles its Latin root. As your ‘dictionary.com’ search no doubt taught you the etymology of ‘defence’, you will know that this word has come to us from a Latin verb tense over the centuries via Old French and Middle English. Words, their specific meaning, and their spelling change over time. The impetus of these changes can be something as frivolous as Samuel Johnson forming new words in his dictionary, a monk being lazy in copying transcripts, or people becoming lazy in pronouncing words and dropping syllables. I would propose that the widespread usage of a word agreed to have a certain meaning and spelt in a certain manner ultimately determines its correctness.

But this correctness is certainly not fixed through time and in all contexts.

This is indeed the case with the UK/Commonwealth spelling of ‘defence’ as opposed to the American spelling of ‘defense’. We in the UK/Commonwealth all express the idea of ‘defence’ in the written form as ‘defence’. The fact that Americans choose to express the same idea in the written form as ‘defense’ certainly does not make our spelling incorrect.

Beyond the Latin criterion you use for correctness, I would say that it is more likely that the spelling ‘defence’ is used more often by more people as the one billion inhabitants of India use British spelling conventions.

In any case, to discredit this thread and the original poster for his spelling of ‘defence’ is absurd. Would you discredit the authors of anything originating from an academic institution in the UK/Commonwealth because they use ‘defence’ and other words whose spelling is a more corrupt form of its Latin origin? Scholars at Oxbridge would not be amused. Actually, they might be. Small minds linger on small things.

Credebililty. Heh.

The reason I took the effort to write this is that your post is an example of a character flaw that hampers development in the Philippines. This is essentially an informative military thread. However, you attack spelling for some unknown reason.

I can imagine Philippine senators rejecting bill after bill after bill for trivial reasons in some misguided effort to gain personal notoriety and simply exercising power for the sake of power at the expense of some much needed legislation.

Less sanguine people could be discouraged from posting any more, and people like me, who are quite interested in developments in the Philippine military, have one less source of information.

Kudos to Someguy and others for barrelling on with this thread.

Just wondering how do we Filipinos or is it Pilipinos translate "Defense" in Tagalog. I am just curious because I want to learn how to spell it correctly. It has been a while since I 've lived in the Philippines for an extended period of time so my spelling is quite rusty.

Just want to add Ive met some British people in the past and they are so quick to ridicule American English and
yet here is a good example of how British English bastardized a word of Latin origin.

Hehehehe.

Yes, time to move on indeed.

Sou-jiro

May 20th, 2005, 01:45 PM

defence /defense....so what...its finished...the end...

TheCameraReturns

May 20th, 2005, 02:35 PM

Skyblade, the BRP Rizal reminds me of the Yangze Gunboat in Steve McQueen's "Sand Pebbles"! He He.. Swap the 40mm guns with a bunch of Lewis guns, paint the ship white, and Voila! Kidding aside, what's the history on this class of ships? That hull looks very old.

renell

May 20th, 2005, 03:04 PM

Renell, I noticed you like to interject your opinions on everything. What's your take on this. I know you want to be a moderator, too bad someone else got the position.

Note to everyone, myself included this is a public forum so unsolicited critcisms or opinions of others will come whether we like it or not.

I'd say something. But you know I couldn't be stuffed, cause I know you can't be about whatever I say. We're here about shooting down insurgent or terrorist speedboats, not personal opinions. And a moderator, by closely looking at it is more hard work and pleasure.

I've had arguments in my school about "colour vs. color" and "tomahto vs. tomayto" and I know it all leads nowhere. In the end of the day it's still English.

@Skyblade, that ship does look in good order. But really you gotta say it looks like those anchored decommissioned ships in the museums.

Skyblade

May 20th, 2005, 07:14 PM

That hull looks very old.

WWII old that is. ;) The Auk Class ships were originally delievered to the US Navy in 1943-44 and served as minesweepers. PS-74 was handed to the Philippines in 1965.

Here's it's specs (courtesy of Timawa.net)
:
Displacement: 1090 tons standard, 1250 tons full load
Length: 221.2 ft (67.4 m)
Speed: 18 knots
Range: 5,700 mi. at 15 knots
Crew: 5 officers + 75 enlisted
Armament:
2-US 76mm/50 Mk26
2-twin Bofors 40mm/56
4-Oerlikon 20mm
US Mk 32 torpedo tubes (triple) - Mk 44 A/S torpedoes
1-Hedgehog Mk10 A/S mortar
Depth charge rack

It's sister ship, BRP Quezon (PS-70) actually was recommissioned just recently along with 3 other ships after being repaired. Here's an article:

BY VICTOR REYES

The Philippine Navy is re-deploying today four newly-repaired ships, including a minesweeper frigate which will be sent to guard the waters of Palawan and the disputed Spratlys island in the South China Sea.

Navy chief Vice Admiral Ernesto de Leon will send off the ships, which underwent a P45 million repair, from the Navy’s headquarters on Roxas blvd. in Manila.

Capt. Geronimo Malabanan, Navy spokesman, said the four ships will be attached to different naval units "to sustain the conduct of naval and maritime operations in their respective AORs (area of responsibilities)."

The minesweeper frigate, also known as Patrol Ship 20 and BRP Quezon, will be put under the operational control of the Naval Forces West which has responsibility over Palawan waters and South China Sea area.

The Spratlys island, a chain of potentially mineral

and oil rich islands and islets, straddles the South China sea. It is being claimed in part or in whole by Philippines, China, Taiwan, Brunei, Vietnam, and Malaysia.

The Navy said the frigate is capable of detecting, tracking and destroying hostile undersea and surface crafts; and escorting merchant vessels to protect them from hostile undersea, air and surface craft, among others.

It can also conduct naval patrol operations to enforce or assist in the enforcement of customs and maritime laws and regulation, and provide naval gunfire support during amphibious operations.

The second biggest Navy ship after the Destroyer Escort which is currently sidelined for repair, the frigate is equipped with a canon, 40 mm anti-aircraft and a 50 caliber machinegun, said Malabanan.

Malabanan said the frigate and the three other surface assets of the Navy ships will be dispatched by De Leon as part of the celebration in the upcoming 107th founding anniversary of the Philippine Navy this Friday.

The repair of BRP Quezon cost the Navy some P15 million for major repair works, including change of its main engine and repair of machineries and generators. The repair of the ship and the three others was undertaken by the Naval Sea Systems Command.

Some pics of the Quezon in the commisioning ceremony:

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050518/i/r841249394.jpg

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050518/i/r3328088646.jpg

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050518/i/r2756549682.jpg

Lili

May 21st, 2005, 02:27 AM

Im just making a comment here, at least I have the balls to mention it to Someguy but I guess some of you in here cant handle strong opinions, oh well!!.
defence /defense....so what...its finished...the end...
Hehehehe. Yes, time to move on indeed.

Just before we end this topic, I'd just like to give the closing credits.
We have to give Jbkayaker credit for making the discussion livelier by having the balls and for attempting to take on four guys. We have to give credit to SoMeGuy for his rivetting display on how he earned the monicker Downtown "Torpedo" Jackal. To Boybaha, for his diplomatic handling of a sensitive situation of correcting lexicons. To Renell, for his lucid interjection for someone so young. And to Mr. Peugeot, for emerging from his reticence and taking time to provide us with his scholarly elucidation on the etymology of defense/defence. To Mr. Peugeot, touche.

And for all those who made cameo appearances while all these were being played out.

The heated exchange, the fireworks, the bravado and the bravura are so important to "uzizeros" like me. Hoohah!

KulasKusgan

May 21st, 2005, 02:31 AM

Whew! I was too late to notice theres something happening here. I suppose word war has ended. Forget about it. Peace.

US Fleet with Phil Names:

USS Bataan
http://www.cal-mum.com/tidbits/uss_bataan.jpg

USS Philippine Sea
http://www.laecva47.com/Ship%20Photos/3-088%20%5bUSS%20Philippine%20Sea%20CVA-47,%20Hong%20Kong%20Harbor%5d.jpg

http://www.goodorevil.de/wallpaper/eigene/page1/Bilder/USS%20Philippine%20Sea_jpg.jpg

Lili

May 21st, 2005, 02:37 AM

sleepwalkeruno, nandoon ka kasi naglalagi sa loveteam thread eh. you missed out on all the fun in this war-themed thread. :runaway:

KulasKusgan

May 21st, 2005, 02:42 AM

^yoko kasi ng gulo.

so fitting lang pala ang title. since its war-related.

Sou-jiro

May 21st, 2005, 02:46 AM

kewl....hehe sleepwalker....i kinda mis read your comment kaya akala ko
those fleets were own by Phils...heheh i nearly jumped...lolz....

akala ko we had an aircraft carrier...haha

simply_me

May 21st, 2005, 07:06 AM

now it's cool here..buti naman..

@Lili: si bunso ba ang tinitira nung mga military at post #65? (sorry off topic) hehehe

Lili

May 22nd, 2005, 05:49 AM

@simply_me. That was the desired effect kaya lang hindi ako marunong mag-edit nung pics, eh. O, tapos na yan ha? baka ma-revive pa yung issue.

renell

May 22nd, 2005, 01:42 PM

lol, for one sec i thought those ships were BRP's. :lol: In my dreams.

But if I was PN admiral, i'd rather than 20 smaller but swifter boats w/missiles than one useless aircraft carrier.

Skyblade

May 23rd, 2005, 06:58 PM

But if I was PN admiral, i'd rather than 20 smaller but swifter boats w/missiles than one useless aircraft carrier.
Indeed right now more capable boats are needed to patrol the seas, especially around and in the Southern Philippines. Also the PN must at least have an adequate battle group adequate enough to defend a carrier if it's going to get one or else you'd have one large expensive target for submarines, ASMs, and all that fun stuff.

For now this is what the PN and PMC has in their wishlist:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v74/Skyblade04/Philippine%20military/endurance.jpg

The Endurance Class LST which is made in Singapore. It'd be a excellent ship to augment/replace the current LST fleet not to mention it has a large helicopter deck in which the PN could utilize well esp. since it has one of the LSTs in inventory converted as a floating helicopter deck.

Skyblade

June 7th, 2005, 07:33 PM

45-hectare Navy property in Fort Boni up for development
Posted: 2:07 AM | May 09, 2005

http://money.inq7.net/breakingnews/view_br...05&dd=09&file=1

Inquirer News Service

printable version email a story write the editor feedback

Get INQ7 business breaking news on your Smart mobile phone in the Philippines. Send EXTRA BUSINESS to 386.

THE PHILIPPINE Navy has said that it is set to transform its 44.7-hectare property in Fort Bonifacio into a mixed-use residential-commercial area.

The project, which is estimated to cost 9.5 billion pesos, is aimed at providing housing for the Navy personnel and, at the same, generating revenue for the Armed Forces Modernization Program.

Navy chief Vice Admiral Ernesto de Leon said the Navy was talking to various financial institutions and major property developers for advice and assistance in the preparation of the project's masterplan.

The project is slated for ground-breaking this year, he added.

De Leon said the project would create some 4,000 housing units, of which 3,000 were for enlisted men and 1,000 for officers who have at least three remaining years of active Naval service.

The project will reduce the housing backlog within the Navy, De Leon said. At least 12 hectares would be set aside for the Navy housing.

De Leon said that under the proposed development scheme, the prospective developer could be given 32 hectares for commercial development under a 99-year usufruct arrangement. The developer, in turn, will construct the housing component of the project. The property would revert to the Navy after the usufruct period, he said.

De Leon said the Navy envisions the rise of virtually self-contained communities within the housing portion of the proposed project. He said the housing clusters would have appropriate open spaces, playgrounds and other vital common facilities.

The prospective developer will be given a free hand to choose the development concept for the commercial component of the project, he said.

-----

Meh hopefully the revenue generated would ACTUALLY go to the modernization project unlike the last time the AFP earned when the last sold land off Fort Bonifacio.

bustero

June 8th, 2005, 12:15 PM

do you guys know what happened to the forum at timawa.net?

Just in case it wasnt' posted, Manokski's site is very good hueybravo.net

Sou-jiro

June 8th, 2005, 03:15 PM

ahhhh...more info.............great stuff guys..

Skyblade

June 9th, 2005, 08:28 AM

do you guys know what happened to the forum at timawa.net?

Just in case it wasnt' posted, Manokski's site is very good hueybravo.net
Well the entire website is supposed to be undergoing a server switch which may take a bit. Indeed Manokski's OrBat is excellent. :D

Skyblade

June 13th, 2005, 10:01 AM

Pics from the Independence Day parade:

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050612/i/r2032796084.jpg?x=380&y=268&sig=b3gyXp5m1oVU8720RaR8qA--

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050612/i/r190508887.jpg?x=380&y=254&sig=QC0B7iTV.SMBr3AXnh_BGw--

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050612/capt.mla10906120515.philippines_arroyo_mla109.jpg?x=380&y=287&sig=p78uAsPsB8V7BeEfEC9F_A--

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050612/i/r3813007994.jpg

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050612/capt.mla10806120512.philippines_arroyo_mla108.jpg?x=380&y=259&sig=.O3BG98n0AysHdTyl0TWZw--

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050612/i/r986299936.jpg?x=380&y=265&sig=gjkS309PcOlqyXStJjBbzw--

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050612/capt.mla10606121043.philippines_arroyo_mla106.jpg?x=380&y=264&sig=UcyEXA3qURDd5T6BKgDENA--

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050612/i/r2043851348.jpg?x=380&y=253&sig=gw61U9.biPGIfg7.U.07GQ--

renell

June 13th, 2005, 12:27 PM

Cool. Did they show off some of their moving equipment? :D

Lili

June 13th, 2005, 05:00 PM

Hey, those are great photos of the soldiers of the Armed Forces of the Philippines. Ang galing ng shots.

Skyblade

June 13th, 2005, 08:08 PM

Cool. Did they show off some of their moving equipment? :D
Haven't seen any pics of it or hear if they did deploy it in the parade but who knows.

Sou-jiro

June 25th, 2005, 03:11 AM

another chopper crashed a few days ago....no fatalities but 3 military personels have serious injuries...lucky the chopper wasnt at a high altitude....quite low actually...i forgot where the location is....but it was featured on both dzbb & dzrh.

Skyblade

July 20th, 2005, 08:01 AM

Philippines to dispatch 200 additional peacekeepers to Haiti
07/19 3:20:18 PM

President Gloria Arroyo said Tuesday that the government is sending 200 additional soldiers to Haiti to join the multilateral peacekeeping force in that country in response to the request of United Nations (UN) Secretary General Kofi Annan.

The President made the announcement during the celebration of the 107th Founding Anniversary of the Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) held this morning at Malacanang’s Rizal Hall.

The new military contingent will join the 146-man Filipino peacekeeping force sent to Haiti in November 2004.

Aside from the Philippines, Liberia, Ivory Coast, Burundi, Afghanistan and East Timor have peacekeeping contingents in Haiti.

In brief remarks, the President also paid tribute to the DFA under Secretary Alberto Romulo for the successes the country has achieved in the fields of diplomacy and foreign service.

"Our election to the UN Security Council, our election as chair of the APEC Counter-Terrorism Task Force, these serve as highlights of the multilateral and international organizations’ trust in the leadership capabilities of the Philippines and the Filipinos, and of course of our foreign service," she said.

She congratulated the men and women of the foreign service "for going beyond the call of duty when our few nationals are in distress, for the joy of their families and the entire nation, that is truly the epitome of foreign policy in the service of the Filipino."

"But I thank you not only for these outstanding and celebrated efforts and examples of heroism, but also for your day-to-day work in your pursuit of our nation’s interest and securing them in every global forum," the President added.

She said the country is particularly grateful to the DFA community for the heroism shown in the rescue of Angelo dela Cruz, Angelito Nayan and Roberto Tarongoy.

In an interview after the anniversary rites, Romulo said the sending of additional peacekeepers to Haiti "is in line with our peacekeeping role. As you know, the President has been in the forefront of promoting peace not only at home as she said, we are also working to implement the GRP-MNLF agreement of 1996, we are on the verge of concluding the GRP-MILF peace agreement hopefully before the end of the year."

The RP peacekeepers will remain in Haiti until a new government is installed there following the September election.

kiretoce

August 15th, 2005, 07:55 PM

A Supersonic Fighter for Just $100?
By Ryu Jin, Staff Reporter

http://photo.hankooki.com/gisaphoto/20050815/kt2200508152037110fi.jpg

South Korea is to sell supersonic fighters at $100 (101,000 won) per jet. It may be hard to believe, but it's no lie. The fighter jets to be sold at such a giveaway price are F-5A/Bs, which are being retired from their 40-year-long service this month.

The Ministry of National Defense and Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) said Sunday they considered selling the retired aircraft, which opened the era of supersonic fighters for the Korean Air Force in 1965, to foreign nations including Mexico and Poland.

"We have about 50 F-5A/B fighter jets at the moment, half of which are used for educational and demonstrational purposes." The ministry will consider selling the remaining half to foreign nations at $100 per unit, a KAI official said. "It's a nominal price."

He hinted that the virtual donation is part of a sales strategy to export KT-1 and T-50 supersonic trainers developed and produced by KAI to the foreign nations. "We have also sold F-5A/B fighters to the Philippines at $100 each in the past."

It is customary for a country to sell outdated military arms at a token cost, a ministry official said. But the source added that the export requires prior consent from the nation that manufactured the weapons. The F-5A/B jets were made in the United States.

South Korea purchased about 120 F-5A/B fighter jets in the late 1960s. They became the mainstay of the Air Force and played a leading role in thwarting espionage agents from North Korea until the 1970s.

Lili

August 15th, 2005, 08:09 PM

wawa naman ang Pinas. bibili na lang ng 40-year old fighter planes. parang scrap metal or chop-chop. Hopefully, these are still in good working order. That's where Filipino ingenuity comes in.

I remember we lost such a gifted geologist/volcanologist Punongbayan because of old helicopter.

jbkayaker12

August 15th, 2005, 10:00 PM

Philippine military is impotent, quite sad really!! Buying 40 year old scraps from neighbouring country is pathetic. Oh well!!

Skyblade

August 15th, 2005, 11:30 PM

bustero

August 16th, 2005, 09:20 AM

Well the entire website is supposed to be undergoing a server switch which may take a bit. Indeed Manokski's OrBat is excellent. :D

Ang tagal naman nilang magayos ng server! Lot's of good info to be culled there but the forumer's are mostly uncivilized, di sumasagot ng tama, sayang doon sa matitinong nag popost.

Anyway hope it gets back up soon. Best source source of inside tsismis re the afp on the web as far as I know.

renell

August 16th, 2005, 09:54 AM

Philippine military is impotent, quite sad really!! Buying 40 year scraps from neighbouring country is pathetic. Oh well!!

The fact that we can't even maintain our own current fleet is a sadder fact. :no:

Skyblade

August 16th, 2005, 10:05 AM

[QUOTE=bustero]...but the forumer's are mostly uncivilized.../QUOTE]
Amen on that! :wallbash:

Sou-jiro

August 16th, 2005, 01:53 PM

grabe na............kawawa na talaga Pinas....its so unfair...

kiretoce

August 17th, 2005, 12:20 AM

Sixth Phase of Southeast Asia Exercise Series Underway
By Chief Journalist Melinda Larson, Commander, Destroyer Squadron 1 Public Affairs
Story Number: NNS050816-01 Release Date: 8/16/2005 11:45:00 AM

SUBIC BAY, Philippines (NNS) -- The sixth and final phase of the 2005 Cooperation Afloat Readiness and Training (CARAT) exercise series is underway here following an Aug. 16 ceremony that marked an official start to a weeklong series of events ashore and at sea focused on increasing maritime interdiction capabilities of the U.S. and Philippine navies.

Nearly 2,000 personnel from the armed forces of both nations and nine ships are taking part in the exercise.

In its 11th year, CARAT is an annual series of bilateral military training exercises with several Southeast Asia nations, designed to enhance the interoperability of the countries' respective sea services in a variety of mission areas that are mutually beneficial. This year’s CARAT series focuses on the development of skills useful in tackling maritime threats.

“These threats include maritime piracy and armed robbery, as well as maritime terrorism and transnational crimes committed at sea," said Commander, Task Force 712, Rear Adm. Kevin Quinn, the executive agent for CARAT, during remarks at the opening ceremony in the Subic Arts Center. "This year’s edition of CARAT gives our two navies a great opportunity to practice some critical skills that can be applied to tackling those threats.

”Those skills important to building operational confidence between the U.S. Navy and the Philippine Navy (PN) include sharing maritime security skill sets, such as how to board a suspected rogue ship, question its crew, and search for contraband.

“Piracy and sea robbery tend to be focused in this region of the world,” Quinn told the media following the opening ceremony. “Having the ability to work together to counteract those threats is very important.”

Acting on threats together means working jointly in nearly every shipboard environment, including communications, at-sea maneuvering, and command and control. Air and amphibious operations are also a part of the training mix.

“All of our exercise events are designed to create as much interaction as possible between our Sailors and Marines,” Quinn said. “The only way two navies can operate efficiently together at sea is through a common set of procedures and through good communications.”

Key to every level of operations is communications, Quinn emphasized, noting that will be possible between both navies via the Combined Enterprise Regional Information Exchange System (CENTRIXS). The real-time communications asset promotes joint situational awareness and allows information to be shared securely.

One of many highlights of the weeklong exercise includes an amphibious landing. More than 150 Philippine Marines will embark USS Harpers Ferry (LSD 49) to conduct a landing with landing craft, air-cushion (LCAC) from Assault Craft Unit 5, Det. Western Pacific Alpha, currently assigned to the ship.

“Basically a navy-to-navy exercise, CARAT specifically involves combined naval tactical operations involving fleet forces by deploying and employing naval surface, air, special operations groups and Marine forces of the U.S. and the Philippines,” Commander, Philippine Fleet, Rear Adm. Alfredo Abueg Jr. said during his opening remarks. “This exercise is a very strategic and operative venue in which our Sailors and Marines train cross-culturally with those of the U.S. Navy.”

Pierside boardings will prepare combined USN/PN boarding teams for a realistic at-sea boarding exercise.

Divers will hone their skills during combined diving and salvage exercises.

“Our Sailors must be well trained in the various skills that form the foundation of their professional knowledge,” Quinn said. “CARAT adds extra value to these efforts because our forces train together and learn from each other.” Sailors will also interact with members of the local community through a series of medical/dental and engineering civic action projects in the surrounding area. In addition, Sailors will perform handiwork and spend time with students at several schools in nearby Olongapo.

“The interface between our people is a true hallmark of CARAT and one of the most important aspects of the exercise,” Quinn said.

Capt. Buzz Little, commander, Destroyer Squadron 1 and the CARAT task group will lead the combined USN/PN CARAT task group, along with his PN counterpart, Commodore Octavio Pabuayon.

The U.S. CARAT task group is made of up of the dock landing ship Harpers Ferry, the frigate USS Rodney M. Davis (FFG 60), the guided-missile destroyer USS Paul Hamilton (DDG 60) and the rescue and salvage ship USS Safeguard (ARS 50).

Other elements, including P-3C Orion and SH-60 Seahawk aircraft, U.S. Navy Seabees from Naval Mobile Construction Battalion (NMCB) 5, based in Port Huenemme, Calif., LCACs, a U.S. Coast Guard training team, and U.S. Army veterinarians will also take part in CARAT Philippines.

Philippine CARAT assets include the patrol ships BRP Rizal (PS74), BRP Emelio Jacinto (PS35), the landing ship vessel BRP Bacolod City (LC550), and the two patrol gunboats BRP Hilario Ruiz (PG378) and BRP Timoteo Figoracion (PG389). Fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters, two Naval Special Operations Groups, and the 1st Marine Battalion will be involved with the exercise.

Little’s staff, currently embarked aboard Harpers Ferry, is based in San Diego. Paul Hamilton is homeported in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and Rodney M. Davis in Everett, Wash. Harpers Ferry and Safeguard are forward-deployed to Sasebo, Japan.

For more on CARAT, visit www.clwp.navy.mil/carat2005.

OtAkAw

August 17th, 2005, 02:03 AM

My analogy on country's military is to animal size
US Military= BLUE WHALE
UK Military= ELEPHANT
Philippine military= PROTOZOAN BACTERIA(plankton perhaps)

Virtute

August 17th, 2005, 09:51 AM

My analogy on country's military is to animal size
US Military= BLUE WHALE
UK Military= ELEPHANT
Philippine military= PROTOZOAN BACTERIA(plankton perhaps)

I have a cousin who was a PMA graduate and was a Captain, fought the muslims in the 1970's, has some harrowing stories of his experiences in Mindanao. He told me recently that the Philippine Air Force would last 2 minutes. I thought probably! Now I believe he wasn't kidding at all!

renell

August 17th, 2005, 11:22 AM

@Skyblade, haven't been to Opus' for a damn long time. I remember Phils defense was one of my original interests back in Brussels, along with SSC. Then it kinda got boring, talking and talking but not a lot actually happening in the real thing, unlike skyscrapers.

sandrn

August 18th, 2005, 03:30 AM

Masaya na rin ako at nakaganti na rin kahit papano ang mga Pinoys.

Pinauusukan na ang bansa sa ilalim ng Pinas na nagsisimulas sa m. Ngayon nakatikim sila ng Manna.

Para na silang pinausukang manok. sige pa babang at magpa-usok pa.

Skyblade

August 18th, 2005, 05:45 AM

I have a cousin who was a PMA graduate and was a Captain, fought the muslims in the 1970's, has some harrowing stories of his experiences in Mindanao. He told me recently that the Philippine Air Force would last 2 minutes. I thought probably! Now I believe he wasn't kidding at all!
Indeed the stories from those that experienced the Muslim insurgency at its height are really intense. My dad was also an officer with the PA in the 70s and also experienced combat in Mindanao as wel.

PAF-wise, heck I'd be satisfied if PAF survive 30 seconds considering that the F-5s never got any structural upgrades which wouldn't make it viable for dogfighting and the AIM-9 Sidewinders are seriously old (B models) and can easily be distracted by chaffs launched by OpFor aircraft. Air defense-wise, sure there's a couple of 40mm Bofors the Marines have for anti-air and the only SAMs that is in AFP inventory are earmarked for the defense of Malacanang.

Hard to believe that this was the same PAF that actually sent F-86s to Africa to help the UN in the Congo...:(

@Skyblade, haven't been to Opus' for a damn long time. I remember Phils defense was one of my original interests back in Brussels, along with SSC. Then it kinda got boring, talking and talking but not a lot actually happening in the real thing, unlike skyscrapers.
Yeah I remember you in the heydays of Opu's forum. You haven't been missing much since it's been down for quite a while. :\

Virtute

August 18th, 2005, 09:54 AM

Indeed the stories from those that experienced the Muslim insurgency at its height are really intense. My dad was also an officer with the PA in the 70s and also experienced combat in Mindanao as wel.

PAF-wise, heck I'd be satisfied if PAF survive 30 seconds considering that the F-5s never got any structural upgrades which wouldn't make it viable for dogfighting and the AIM-9 Sidewinders are seriously old (B models) and can easily be distracted by chaffs launched by OpFor aircraft. Air defense-wise, sure there's a couple of 40mm Bofors the Marines have for anti-air and the only SAMs that is in AFP inventory are earmarked for the defense of Malacanang.

Hard to believe that this was the same PAF that actually sent F-86s to Africa to help the UN in the Congo...:(

Yeah I remember you in the heydays of Opu's forum. You haven't been missing much since it's been down for quite a while. :\

It's pretty sad. Oddly enough my uncle (mom's first cousin) flew the F-86 sabrejets of the PAF in the early 60's. He also won the gunnery marksmanship award here in the US while on training. He and his wingman actually buzzed my grandma's house in Miagao a few times. My grandma on the balcony was waving my sister's white baby blanket so tito Rem could see it. I guess the 60's was the best for the PAF.

Lili

August 18th, 2005, 04:43 PM

Why is this in the Samahan forum? Shouldn't it be in the Development forum?

Skyblade

August 19th, 2005, 12:43 PM

It's pretty sad. Oddly enough my uncle (mom's first cousin) flew the F-86 sabrejets of the PAF in the early 60's. He also won the gunnery marksmanship award here in the US while on training. He and his wingman actually buzzed my grandma's house in Miagao a few times. My grandma on the balcony was waving my sister's white baby blanket so tito Rem could see it. I guess the 60's was the best for the PAF.
F-86s doing a flyby over Miagao!? :eek: Aw man I would've loved to have been your uncle's wingman! ;) It'd be an awesome sight to overfly the Santo Tomas church! :D I wonder if my mom ever got to see those flybys as well since she and her family lives in Miagao as well. m))

Why is this in the Samahan forum? Shouldn't it be in the Development forum?
I dunno but so far this thread has been going around here in Samahan ever since. >>;;

renell

August 19th, 2005, 01:00 PM

Why is this in the Samahan forum? Shouldn't it be in the Development forum?

I'd love to if the AFP was developing. It's not really is it?

Masaya na rin ako at nakaganti na rin kahit papano ang mga Pinoys.

Please, is this relevant?

Lili

August 19th, 2005, 05:14 PM

^^ Haha. Good response to my question, Renell. :lol:

Solblanc

August 20th, 2005, 10:32 AM

It would be nice if we were like the swiss and do away with the military entirely, but sadly, it'll take a lot to clog that budget sinkhole.

Skyblade

September 30th, 2005, 01:21 AM

Philippines to decommission last fighter jet
09/29 3:32:52 PM

MANILA (AFP) - The Philippines will decommission the last of its 40-year-old F-5 fighter jets, leaving the country without any aerial defense aircraft, an air force spokesman said Thursday.

Ceremonies for the decommissioning of the US-made "Freedom Fighter" jets will be held in Basa airbase on Saturday, marking the last use of these aircraft.

Only about five F-5s are still operational, Major Augusto dela Pena said.

Because of lack of funds, "for the next six years, acquisition of new fighters are not on the drawing board," said dela Pena.

In the meantime, the air force will use about five Italian-made S211 trainer jets to serve as makeshift air defense aircraft even though they are not designed or equipped to be fighters, dela Pena added.

"These are the trade-offs we have to accept because of our defense priorities," he said, remarking that internal security was the biggest concern of the Philippine military.

The Philippines is battling both communist guerrillas in the hinterlands as well as various Muslim extremist groups in the south.

The Philippines acquired about 37 F-5 jets from its main ally, the United States, in 1965. But many of the jets were later grounded, and the remaining aircraft are too expensive to maintain and repair, the major said.

In the past decade, several F-5s were provided second-hand from South Korea but these have also become too old to continue flying.

---

Well, all things must come to an end... The F-5 did serve PAF well and it's a retirement well deserved...

kiretoce

September 30th, 2005, 01:25 AM

^^ So sad.... :cry:

ryanr

September 30th, 2005, 04:51 AM

So we have no jets to protect our airspace...sounds uhhh good.:|

Lili

September 30th, 2005, 04:57 AM

ryanr

September 30th, 2005, 05:14 AM

^ I'd say no planes...coz with pathetic old planes, they could crash and kill pilots. At least with no planes, pilots are safe on the ground.

Lili

September 30th, 2005, 05:21 AM

^ Agree. No waste of lives and money.

Skyblade

September 30th, 2005, 08:24 AM

^ What about those 40-year old fighter planes being sold to the Philippines for $100.00 each? (see page 5) So I guess that "deal" did not push through. Which is better no planes or pathetic old planes?
Though it sounds like a great deal, these airframes went through alot and probably are nearing the end of is useful life. If PAF wants to continue to use the F-5A/Bs, major upgrading (esp. structurally) needs to be implemented. Otherwise, you're literally sending pilots to their deaths. It's a loss, indeed, but right now with the AFP's condition, counter insurgency is an urgent role for PAF and then there's the airlift capability problem. There's only like 1-3 C-130s operational in any given day and there's also the UH-1s to upgrade as well. Air defense is important, but airlift and COIN (counter insurgency) is vital to support the rest of the armed forces.

The retirement of the F-5 leaves the S.211 as the only jet aircraft operational in PAF's inventory. The problem is, the S.211 can't be equipped with air to air missles and the only thing that would resemble something for anti-air is a 12.5mm gun that can be attached to the centerline. This aircraft isn't that great for COIN as compared to the OV-10 Bronco or SF260s (both propeller driven) is because it can't loiter as long as these aircraft over a battlefield as well as it's higher speed.

Other than that, there is no replacement in sight. As much as I would LOVE to see a Gripen, F-16, Mirage, etc. with the PAF diamond wings and the 6th Fighter Squadron's insignia, it's not a viable choice considering the current state of the armed forces. You might as well spend the millions (or billions) to equip our soldiers with armor that would increase their chances of survival, get more F-27s or even 1-2 more C-130s to increase airlift and patrol capability, or more patrol boats to combat pirates and the ASG before going for fighters.

Skyblade

October 1st, 2005, 08:20 AM

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051001/capt.xpr10210010426.philippines_old_jets_xpr102.jpg

A Philippine Air Force ground crew gives a hand signal to an F-5 jet to stop during its decommissioning ceremony Saturday, Oct. 1, 2005 at the Floridablanca Air Base, north of Manila. The F-5 which was acquired from the United States and serve as the backbone of the country's air defense was decommissioned after a 45-years of service. (AP Photo/Pat Roque)

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051001/capt.xpr10110010418.philippines_old_jets_xpr101.jpg

Retired Philippine Air Force Brig. General Angel Okol Jr. who first fly the F-5 jets in 1965 and Major Carlos Evangelists salute the F-5 during its decommissioning ceremony Saturday, Oct. 1, 2005 at a Air Base in Floridablanca north of Manila. The F-5 which was acquired from the United States and serve as the backbone of the country's air defence was decommissioned after a 45-years of service. (AP Photo /Pat Roque)

Thank you for four decades of service... :cry:

amras

October 2nd, 2005, 02:38 AM

F-5 takes last flight; RP external air defense down and out

First posted 01:21am (Mla time) Oct 02, 2005
By Tonette Orejas, Fe B. Zamora
Inquirer News Service

Editor's Note: Published on page A1 of the October 2, 2005 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer

BASA AIR BASE, Pampanga – As music from the soundtrack of the movie "Top Gun" blared, the fighter jet taxied toward a hangar in this air base to mark the retirement of the country's 37 F-5s, once dubbed the kings of Philippine skies.

Shortly after, retired Brig. Gen. Angel Okol Jr., who was the first to fly the twin-engine supersonic plane for the Air Force in 1965, and Maj. Carlos Evangelista, the last to steer it in 2002, stood beside the aircraft, giving it a last look and posing for posterity.

Called "Freedom Fighter," the 46-foot-long F-5s arrived in October 1965, launching the Philippines into the supersonic age. It was the first Asian country to acquire the planes and, until the '70s, the Philippine Air Force would be the envy of its neighbors.

With the sun glimmering on t[he plane's wings, Okol (known by his call sign "Cobra 30") and Evangelista ("Cobra 389") lingered and exchanged memories of combat missions.

But their memories were tinged with sadness for their poorly equipped Air Force.

"I feel very lucky to have flown it because to me it played a key role in defending the country's sovereignty," Okol said.

F-5s, he recalled, saw action against secessionists in Mindanao, where he was chief of the then Regional Air Command.

"The F-5s saw big combat operations. They carried all kinds of armaments, except napalm bombs. They carried more weapons like 20-mm cannons," Okol said.

"I feel sad that this major fleet is retired but [economy-wise], it is a correct move because I learned that the imported parts are very difficult to obtain now," he said.

They defended Cory

It was an F-5 piloted by Maj. Danilo Atienza that on Dec. 1, 1989, defended the administration of then President Corazon Aquino against a coup attempt, by bombing and strafing a Sikorsky helicopter, seven T-28s and a fuel depot in Sangley Point to deprive rebel soldiers of air power.

Atienza died in the assault.

The F-5s, too, turned the tide of battle against Abu Sayyaf bandits in 2001.

Brig. Gen. Manuel Natividad, who made the final flight as chief of the Air Defense Wing, said the decommissioning rites for the F-5s-attended by other retired pilots-also symbolized uncertainty for Basa Air Base and the PAF in general.

Fightertown without fighters

Without the F-5s, Natividad said, "Fightertown" – the label airmen had given the base – was now without its mighty wings.

"Comparatively, we are really down as far as air defense is concerned," Natividad said.

The air strength and role of Fightertown in external defense would have to be addressed, he said.

"If not, [it] will affect the air force significantly," he said.

Natividad also expressed concern over the transfer of skills and knowledge from one generation of pilots to another.

He said he was envious of other Southeast Asian countries that were not cutting defense spending and were maintaining air defense superiority amid the economic crisis.

Decision makers, he said, should realize the "need to keep a fighter force."

His voice cracked as he talked of the F-5s: "From Basa it first flew. To Basa it flew last."

End of an era

The meaning of the occasion was not lost on Lt. Gen. Jose Reyes, PAF commander.

"We have just witnessed the end of an era in the Air Force," he said, adding this was "met with a heavy heart at Fightertown."

The arrival of the F-5s ended the bi-winged, fabric-covered, hand-cranked airplanes in the PAF.

From 1965 to 1998, the government received 37 F-5 jets from the United States.

The five S-211 Augusta, which the 5th Tactical Fighter Group operates, are a poor match to the F-5s, Natividad said.

Okol, 75, and his five fellow pilots [he identified them only as Maj. De Leon, Major Franco, Capt. Alegarbes, Capt. Andrews and Capt. Laquindanum] helped the PAF achieve mastery in flying F-5s.

Together with a 50-member maintenance crew, Okol's team trained as combat pilots and instructors at Williams Air Force Base in Texas in 1965.

Pining for F-5

Natividad said the lifespan of an F-5 was 15 years but the PAF was able to lengthen it by diligent maintenance and repair.

The 36 fighter planes needed to replace the F-5s cost $35 million (P1.96 billion) each, Reyes said.

Okol retired in 1982 and moved to Philippine Airlines where he worked until 1995. All those years, he said, he yearned to fly the F-5 again.

His son, Miguel Ernesto, a PAF captain, also flew the aircraft.

Evangelista, 39, said that although the F-5s were old, they flew fast and high during good weather.

His last flight was in May 2002. His wingman, the late Capt. Daniel Policarpio, lost control of the machine and crashed into a school in Mabalacat, Pampanga, while on a training maneuver in the Balikatan exercises.

All the 10 F-5s at that time had since been grounded.

'Older than me'

Their gray paint fading and chipping off, nine F-5s stood solemnly side by side at the air base. Tin foil covered their cockpit canopies, protecting them from scratches.

Save for an occasional visit from a mechanic, who would "cannibalize" them for parts to be used to keep other F-5s flying, these planes here had been left untouched since 2002.

"I have no orders what to do with these. We are just here to guard them," Lt. Elesio Asistol, maintenance officer, told the Inquirer.

Lack of funds and a shift from external to internal security have been cited as reasons for finally removing the F-5s from the PAF's inventory of air assets.

"Yes," Evangelista smiled sheepishly, "the plane is actually older [than me]."

sandrin

October 3rd, 2005, 01:26 AM

ATTENTION:

IPAALAM sa lahat ng tao sa buong Pilipinas na maging ALERTO pagkatapos ng pangyayari sa Bali:

1. Bawat BAranggay ay dapat bantayan at manmanan ang mga bagong dayuhan sa nasabing bansa.
2. Isumbong ang mga dayuhan galing sa Indonesia at Malaysia na nagkakalat ng lagim sa Pilipinas.
3. Sa lahat ng sumasakay sa Public trasportasyon gaya ng BUS, MRT, Simbahan at DYIP, bantayan din nyo ang inyong mga katabi na nag-iiwan ng mga plastic. Harangin nyo at i-check ang plastic.
4. Higpitan ang pag-check ng mga bag sa MRT, Mall, Airport at Restaurant.
5. Sa mga nag-paparenta ng bahay sa mga nasabing dayuhan at kahina-hinalang tao, i-double check nyo ang mga character ng mga ito.

bagel

October 3rd, 2005, 02:06 AM

So in other words, if they look foreign and muslim, report them? What about Filipino troublemakers too? Also, please mind the taxi drivers. Some of them are dishonest. Report them too. Watch out for sketchy looking people who want to sell you drugs. Sometimes they hang out in Ermita. Might as well also report people who look dangerous like left-handed people. also people who have bad odors and people who have club feet.

Mga unano. I-report din. Baka kainin nila ang anak nyo.

Somebody tell me what "terror" looks like in certain terms. Please define.

sandrin

October 3rd, 2005, 03:03 AM

Di ba speicific ang pagkakasabi ko na:
1. Bantayan ang mga dayuhan na yon at isumbong ang mga nagkakalat ng lagim. Ikaw binabago mo ang kahulugan sa pagsabing - So in oher words, if they look foreign and muslim, report them. Kaya nga ine-specify ko. Kagaya mo talago mag-isip ang mga oposisyon, binabago ang "context" na mga statement.
So ano pa ang kinu-complain mo ngayon ABER !!!!!

Well kasama na lahat ng troublemakers don. Kaya nga sinabi na kahinahinalang tao - ibig sabihin kasama na lahat ng gumagawa ng kasamaan. Pero dapat mo isipin na ang mga tinatarget ng mga terorista ay sa maramihan gaya ng ferry bombing that killed 100 people.

KulasKusgan

October 12th, 2005, 04:51 PM

the finest of all:

CAFGU

http://ilocostimes.com/dec06-dec12-04/pix/agay2.jpg

http://www.bulatlat.com/images/3-37/negros-cafgu.jpg

Skyblade

October 12th, 2005, 05:30 PM

Indeed the Citizens Armed Forces Geographical Unit does need a proper salute. :applause:

kiretoce

October 16th, 2005, 07:09 PM

4,500 U.S. TROOPS IN RP FOR WAR GAMES
By Jaime Laude

MANILA, October 15, 2005 (STAR) - Philippine and American troops opened joint training exercises yesterday aimed at strengthening the Philippines’ fight against terrorism.

Over the next two weeks, 4,500 US Marines and sailors from Okinawa, Japan will join up to 700 Filipino soldiers in the annual training maneuvers, called the "Talon Vision and Amphibious Landing Exercises."

"It’s not necessarily a counterterrorism exercise," US Marine Capt. Burrell Parmer told The STAR.

But skills acquired by Philippine troops in the course of the war games could be used against terrorists, said Burrell, public affairs officer of the 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit, which has 2,000 troops participating in the war games.

The US Navy’s Task Force 76 and Amphibious Squadron 11 have 2,500 sailors in the exercises, Burrell said.

Officials of the Armed Forces of the Philippines said the joint exercises will polish the counterterrorism skills of participating Filipino troops.

Joint exercises by the two countries have taken on greater urgency in recent years as the AFP has launched US-backed offensives against al-Qaeda-linked groups in Mindanao.

"The exercises are designed to improve interoperability, increase readiness and continue the professional relationship between the United States and Philippine armed forces," Philippine Marine spokesman Maj. Melquiades Ordiales said in a statement, as the two forces held the opening ceremony for the exercises at the Marine headquarters at Fort Bonifacio in Taguig.

Parmer said Talon events will be held across Luzon, including the former US air base in Clark Field in Pampanga and Crow Valley in Tarlac. Amphibious landing exercises will be held in Ternate, Cavite.

There will also be training activities in the jungle areas of Fort Magsaysay in Nueva Ecija and the mountains and beaches of San Miguel in Zambales.

Parmer said the month-long exercises will include medical and civic action programs to be undertaken by US troops. There will be engineering activities in Ternate. US troops will also donate computers to several high schools.

Held under the aegis of the RP-US Mutual Defense Treaty, military exercises between the two countries have increased amid an upsurge of terrorist attacks in Metro Manila and Mindanao.

The latest war games will include contingents from the Philippine Air Force, who are being trained as ground combatants due to the PAF’s lack of aircraft.

US forces have been providing intelligence support and supplying communications to Filipino troops hunting down Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) and Abu Sayyaf terrorists.

Security officials say two Malaysian masterminds of the nightclub bombings that killed 202 people on the Indonesian island of Bali in October 2002 have been sighted in Maguindanao in the company of Abu Sayyaf chieftain Khadaffy Janjalani.

The US government has offered a bounty of $10 million for the capture of one of the Malaysians, Dulmatin, and $1 million for Umar Patek. The two men are believed to be members of JI.

In 1992 the Philippine Senate voted to shut down the US bases at Clark Field and Subic Bay. US troops returned to the country in 2002 as the Philippines expressed support for the US-led war on terror.

In three-month war games dubbed Balikatan 2002, US troops helped the AFP flush out Abu Sayyaf guerrillas from their base in Basilan. The guerrillas fled with two American missionaries and a Filipina nurse in tow. The nurse and one of the Americans were killed in an encounter between Philippine troops and the Abu Sayyaf kidnappers.

Janjalani managed to flee Basilan before the start of the war games. But the group’s flamboyant spokesman Aldam Tilao, alias Abu Sabaya, was later killed in an encounter with Philippine troops in the waters off the Zamboanga peninsula.

tigidig14

October 16th, 2005, 07:29 PM

^kala ko nagse-save yung US military ng money kasi wala na ngang nag-e-enlist and theyre all using the funds for bush plans for IRAQ.

Skyblade

October 19th, 2005, 09:42 PM

Here's more pics of US and AFP troops in the Talon Vision exercise:

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051018/capt.xaf10910181227.philippines_us_military_xaf109.jpg

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051018/capt.xaf10310181042.philippines_us_military_xaf103.jpg

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051018/capt.xaf10110181035.philippines_us_military_xaf101.jpg

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20051018/i/r351621170.jpg

Philippines Set to Forge Military Pact With Australia
Link to the article (http://asia.news.yahoo.com/051018/4/293d0.html)

MANILA, Oct 18 Asia Pulse - The Philippines is poised to forge a Status of Forces Agreement with Australia and member-states of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) amid the continuing threat of terrorism in the region, Philippine Defense chief Avelino Cruz said Tuesday.

In a joint press briefing with visiting Australian defense chief Sen. Robert Hill in Camp Aguinaldo, Cruz said the SOFA with Australia could come first since previous discussions had already taken place.

Apart from Australia, the Philippines is also in the thick of preparations for initiating a SOFA with Malaysia and is reviving its previous agreement with Singapore.

"We intend to do this will all the members of Asean, we intend to negotiate and conclude a Status of Forces Agreement with all the members of Asean," Cruz said.

Already, Cruz said he has instructed all defense and military attaches "to submit template agreement with all the members of Asean in order that they can start reviewing our proposal for Status of Forces Agreement." He said a SOFA with Australia and other Asean countries is very important for counter-terrorism trainings to commence with other nations apart from the United States. "Only through cooperation of all these countries can we have an effective plan to attack against terrorism."

In May 1999, the Philippine Senate ratified the Philippine-US Visiting Forces Agreement which govern large-scale joint military exercises in the country.

"We are going to do it simultaneously at the same time. The signing of Status of Forces Agreement with one country does not depend on the signing of a SOFA with other countries. We are going to do it all at the same time," he said.

"It is just that the stage of negotiations with Australia is the most advance so I calculate that the first SOFA that can be concluded with will be the one with Australia and probably the next one will be with Malaysia because we are studying it (draft) for quite sometime now," Cruz said.

He added that the Australian government has long submitted its SOFA proposal and is under review by the Philippine government.

Next month, Cruz said, Manila would be submitting its counter-proposal, after which negotiations for a finalized agreement will commence for subsequent submission to the Senate.

"It is clearly important that we have this legal framework to allow us train with foreign forces particularly for example in counter-terrorism, disaster management and other prevention of transnational crimes," he said.

For his part, Hill said, his government intends to take part in the Philippine-US Balikatan military exercises once it forges a SOFA with the Philippines, noting that both countries share the threat of terrorism.

Hill said the Australian government is pleased to be invited by Philippine and US authorities to observe next year's Balikatan training between its troops. The details of the exercise were not immediate available.

"And we hope, subject to the completion of the SOFA, that we might be able to join another exercise the following year," said Hill of the Balikatan training, a traditionally annual large-scale exercise.

In 2001, thousands of American military advisers trained Filipino counterparts in strife-torn southern Philippines where the Al Qaeda-linked Abu Sayyaf were holding an American missionary couple and several Filipinos at the time.

To date, American advisers still continue to train Filipino troops and provide humanitarian assistance in impoverished towns in southern Philippines.

"This (Australia's involvement in Balikatan) would mean that the Australian and Philippine troops, in a very practical way, could do their respective capabilities and that has to be in the interest of both countries," Hill said.

The visiting Australian official noted that the threat of terrorism is very real in Australia and "we feel the possibility of terrorist moving into the Southern Philippines" where the military said a number of Jemaah Ismaliyah operatives are reportedly operating.

"And we therefore have a real and vested interest to working with Philippines to overcome that (terrorist) threat. And that's our commitment to Secretary Cruz and his government," Hill said.

Dr_Joe

October 29th, 2005, 09:43 AM

more of talon vision

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20051026/i/r3848356309.jpg?x=380&y=197&sig=sJo4aYzK8O6piUTqHSkGTg--
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20051026/i/r40465050.jpg?x=380&y=231&sig=cl25_MS2yA1uNgBtsHEVtg--
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051026/capt.xaf10110260611.philippines_us_military_xaf101.jpg?x=380&y=275&sig=y4s2FgN7JT.OWaZycfUAvA--
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051026/capt.xaf10210260613.philippines_us_military_xaf102.jpg?x=380&y=264&sig=7RHDE.SZw_.NIFsoykCXig--
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20051026/capt.xaf10310260617.philippines_us_military_xaf103.jpg?x=380&y=262&sig=.3J9Ex7u5bh8NUz8FHVV1g--
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20051026/i/r2137819383.jpg?x=380&y=260&sig=cDg6kBNv8fYGOGUhO_8Q5A--

bagel

October 29th, 2005, 09:54 AM

I hope they don't run over those poor carabaos. They must be freaked out (the carabaos I mean).

tigidig14

October 29th, 2005, 10:02 AM

^i can tell some are ours, the last two pics are definitely USMARINE hooooorah, it showed a hooftop HUMWV and the last one looks like an amphibious<--is that how u spell it w/STRYKER style.

renell

October 29th, 2005, 04:21 PM

I think it's the AAV7 or 8.. something but yeah I don't think the Phils has those.. but the V300s, the fleet of the things with turrets I think they're filo.

ryanr

October 29th, 2005, 07:04 PM

The last two pics looks like one single picture...Humvee too scared to cross the river:D

kiretoce

November 4th, 2005, 05:46 PM

For sale: One antiquated air force; contact Albania
Saturday, November 05, 2005

A REUTERS report published in many newspapers all over the world will console the members of the Philippine Air Force.

It’s about “Albania’s antiquated air force of Soviet-designed MiG aircraft, which killed 35 Albanian pilots but no enemies.”

Albania is selling these old airplanes to the highest bidder. Its military chief of staff told Reuters some possible buyers from Western countries just want “to turn the planes into bars.”

That lends itself to two possible meanings: bars for people to meet in and have a drink or get soused in or bars of metal.

The first comes to mind because in Hong Kong an enterprising fellow leased, but did not buy, a coach of the HK Tram (which runs on electricity) and turned it into a rolling pub. The second is a prosaic way of dealing with the airplanes—as objects just a bit better than junk.

Reuters describes Albania as “a satellite of the Soviet Union and China during the first decades of the Cold War.”

But Reuters did not mention that China ended up going on its own and apart from the USSR. It succeeded in drawing Albania into China orbit within the so-called socialist bloc. Albania would often side with China against the USSR in polemics inside the communist world.

Albania’s air force was much better than that of the Philippines during the days of the Cold War. Reuters says “the Stalinist regime of Enver Hoxha was a given a fleet that grew to 125 MiGs” to fight off the Western aggressors. The Philippine Air Force, even at the height of the anticommunist Philippine-US military alliance, never grew to anything near 100 US-supplied jets. Perhaps that was because Clark Air Base and Subic had all the modern jets to do the job in case there was a Soviet or Chinese communist attack.

The Philippine Air Force can’t do with its grounded planes (all of which are of American provenance) what the Albanians are doing with their MiGs: offer the planes to buyers abroad. The PAF will have to sell them to local buyers.

First, the PAF will make more money selling parts of the planes to locals. Filipinos (or Philippine-based Chinese and other aliens with Philippine documents) will pay in pesos. The peso, compared with the Albanian currency, is growing stronger every day against the US dollar. But if the PAF would insist on being paid in dollars, Filipino buyers can easily do that—with dollars, pounds or euros from their OFW relatives.

Second, broken-down American planes are not as rare as Soviet MiGs, so the global price for used-in-the-Philippines US aircraft will not be as high as nouveau riche Filipinos would be happy to pay.

All in all, our air force is better off than Albania’s—until, of course, that country becomes a member of NATO!

Skyblade

November 5th, 2005, 08:56 AM

I think it's the AAV7 or 8.. something but yeah I don't think the Phils has those.. but the V300s, the fleet of the things with turrets I think they're filo.
Indeed it's the AAVP-7 which the PMC hopes to aquire to either compliment or replace the LVTP-6. The V-300 seen in the formation is the FSV (Fire Support Vehicle) version which the PMC has 11 (one was lost to an MILF RPG round in Mindanao) along w/ a PMC V-150. Would've been great for the PMC to acquire more of those -300s but it's amphibious capabilities are not as great as the AAVP though once inland, it can be more versatile than the -7.

Gotta love the Crow Valley range...perfect place to train armor.

[b]
Perhaps that was because Clark Air Base and Subic had all the modern jets to do the job in case there was a Soviet or Chinese communist attack.

If there was any benefit out of those US bases, it was the fact that the AFP didn't have to worry much about external defense as well as easier acquisitions of equipment. Now with them gone, the armed forces has to take care of it's own external defense on top of counter insergency operations and acquiring new gadgets is a wee bit harder than before.

mgian_21

November 26th, 2005, 10:17 AM

mgian_21

November 26th, 2005, 10:34 AM

poor poor poor Philippines....kawawa naman tayo were probably the worst equiped in terms defense capability in our region....even much poorer nations than the Philippines...country such as Burma as more equiped than us...what happenned to the money supose to be used for modernazation?....that was during the Estrada period isnt it?...or is it Arroyo's??. :bash:

we dont even have eagle F-15...and hornets.....and these are considered old in many western countries...let alone even in some of our developing country neigbours have better one than the two i mention....ow well that curruption for you...

btw whats the name of that currupt PNP official?...the guy who is also a U.S. citizen?.....he should be shot... :bash:

because of corruption, were the poorest armed forcs in asia even in the whole world, actually isa lang nmn sa dahilan, the main reason is ung 5 partylist n nakaupo sa house of representatives
1. akbayan
2. gabriela
3. anakpawis
4. bayan
5. foreget ko na

basta ung 5 political wing ng CPP-NPA
i have 2 friends na myembro ng PAF, bago mag-election last year(2004) sabi nila sa amin, hwag iboto ang 5 partylist kasi sila ang dahilan kung bakit nawawala ang AFP moden. Fund :eek2:

sugbuanon

November 26th, 2005, 10:42 AM

^^ mga loko yang 5 na partylist.. walang ibang alam kundi ang magrally!!!!!!!!

mgian_21

November 26th, 2005, 10:48 AM

huli man tayo, i believed may nakatago tayong mga weapons, may airfield base tayo sa palawan ( malay nyo may nakatagong f18 doon )

may nabasa akong article about WW2, may sinabi si churchill n Filipino soldier is the best fighter in the world, remember nung sinakop ng hapon ang pinas tumagal ang giyera sa Pilipinas (corregidor and Bataan) nasira ang timetable ng hapon, d nila nasakop ang australia, nagtataka sila kung bakit d nauubusan ng bala eh corner n ang usaffe, di nila alam ginagapang ng mga sundalong pinoy ang mga kampo ng hapon para makakuha ng bala, at armas at food.. lol

bulakenyo

November 26th, 2005, 10:16 PM

sugbuanon

November 27th, 2005, 07:57 AM

resourceful kase ang mga sundalo natin. our aetas are even training american soldiers in jungle survival.. i've also read that our soldiers are the most experienced in SEA or was it Asia..

mgian_21

November 29th, 2005, 05:39 AM

amras

November 29th, 2005, 05:46 AM

hahaha... apache... sana buhay pa ko kapag nag-acquire na tayo nyan...

bagel

November 29th, 2005, 06:03 AM

Oo pwede buhay ka pa.. Medyo obsolete nga lang ang Apache dahil ang kalaban ay naka anti-gravity turbolaser full impulse engines with photon torpedoes and warp drive na.

ryanr

November 29th, 2005, 06:21 AM

Posted by tigs:

cant find the defense thread but this can be catergorize here; its not so good news as well

No fighter jets for RP until 2011-- Air Force official

First posted 01:18pm (Mla time) Nov 24, 2005
By Joel Francis Guinto
Agence France-Presse, INQ7.net

(UPDATE) THE PHILIPPINES will only consider buying new military aircraft in 2011 when internal security problems are hopefully resolved, despite retiring the last of its fighter jets this year, an official said Thursday.
Air Force Chief Lieutenant General Jose Reyes said in the meantime that the military would make do with five S2-11 trainer jets with "very limited fighter capability" after the last of its 40-year-old F-5 fighter planes were decommissioned in October.

"As of now, our thrust is to clear our internal security problems. Once we're finished, that's the time we move on to the acquisition of these high-value items," Reyes said in a chance interview with reporters in Camp Aguinaldo.

"Fighter planes are very expensive, if you buy it, all of the resources of the military will be used up and we cannot afford that… At this time, we make do with what we have, the S2-11 trainers," he said.

The Department of National Defense has set a 2010 target to minimize
security threats such as communist insurgents and Islamic extremists.
On October 1this year, the Philippine Air Force decommissioned the last of the 37 F-5 or "Freedom Fighter" planes that it received from the US, its main military ally.

The F-5 jets saw action against leftist and Muslim insurgents and against rebel soldiers who staged one of the bloodiest coup d'etats against former president Corazon Aquino in 1986.

Air Force spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Restituto Padilla said they had 16 S2-11 jets in the inventory but only four to five were operational.

If the military meets its 2010 target, Reyes said planning would start on the acquisition of new fighter planes though he would not say what aircraft models would be purchased.

"By 2011, these types of aircraft -- the F-16s and the F-18s -- are already obsolete. That's why as of now, we have not done any planning on what types of jets to acquire after this internal security problem," Reyes said.

But Reyes said training of fighter pilots would continue with the use of S211 jets. These are also being used for patrol and reconnaissance missions, he added.

"We will continue to train fighter pilots. Not all of them will transfer to commercial [airlines]," Reyes said, as he admitted that Air Force pilots were drawn to commercial airlines mainly because of the higher compensation.

bagel

November 29th, 2005, 06:23 AM

The very same crash-prone S211 trainers huh? Oh well, what can you do with the money situation?

renell

November 29th, 2005, 07:56 AM

Indeed it's the AAVP-7 which the PMC hopes to aquire to either compliment or replace the LVTP-6. The V-300 seen in the formation is the FSV (Fire Support Vehicle) version which the PMC has 11 (one was lost to an MILF RPG round in Mindanao) along w/ a PMC V-150. Would've been great for the PMC to acquire more of those -300s but it's amphibious capabilities are not as great as the AAVP though once inland, it can be more versatile than the -7.

Gotta love the Crow Valley range...perfect place to train armor.

If there was any benefit out of those US bases, it was the fact that the AFP didn't have to worry much about external defense as well as easier acquisitions of equipment. Now with them gone, the armed forces has to take care of it's own external defense on top of counter insergency operations and acquiring new gadgets is a wee bit harder than before.

well really we still rely on US handouts like patrol boats, old Hueys and M16s.

@boybaha, anything in the hands of PAF will be crash prone with the maintenance they are known to sustain.

ryanr

November 29th, 2005, 08:25 AM

Why is this in the Samahan forum? Shouldn't it be in the Development forum?

Yes, it should be.:) I'm more than 2 months late:D

ryanr

November 29th, 2005, 08:26 AM

tigidig14

November 29th, 2005, 08:45 AM

wow, uss bataan is so grandeur

ryanr

November 29th, 2005, 08:51 AM

^ I think it is decommisioned already. So has USS Leyte aircraft carrier (which was really old).

sugbuanon

November 29th, 2005, 09:05 AM

yeah, skilled warriors, lousy military equipment,

if im chief of staff, here's my shopping list (ung kaya lang ng buget ng pinas)

at least 2 squadron of F 15 or 3 squadron of A4 skyhaws

2 squadron of apache helicopter
1 squadron of c130
2 aircraft carrier, ung pang sea harrier
100 m48 tanks
20 nighthawks

yan lang, lol

kaya nmn ntin siguro gumawa ng a/c carrier ng pang sea harrier ang gamit, kasi nag eexport nbmn tayo ng world class ng barko a ibat ibang bansa, mayroon nmn tayo nyan sa cebu eh...........

baka may mga pirated version na mas mura katulad ng DVD at VCD :D

here's in my shopping list

2 = midsize aircraft carriers
5 = GEC- Yarrow- built F-2000 frigates (Malaysia already has 2)
75 = Su-27 Flankers multirole fighter jets
5 = Saab 340 Erieye for surveillance
20 = C-130J for transpo and cargo
500 = attack Bradleys
200 = T-80UD MBT
30 = AH-64D Apache (anti abu sayyaf)
night vision goggles and GPS for all army units

i think we should have a strong navy coz our country is an archipelago..

sugbuanon

November 29th, 2005, 09:10 AM

^ I think it is decommisioned already. So has USS Leyte aircraft carrier (which was really old).

it still look brand new to me.. why not give it to the Phil. as an early x-mas present :D

amras

November 29th, 2005, 11:13 AM

Oo pwede buhay ka pa.. Medyo obsolete nga lang ang Apache dahil ang kalaban ay naka anti-gravity turbolaser full impulse engines with photon torpedoes and warp drive na.

lolz!

you know I've always thought that the Philippines is hosting a secret research facility somewhere... you know for advance technologies and stuffs... it could be somewhere like under the Clark Expo Filipino (kaya sobrang mahal nya!!!). tapos it is well funded kaya lagi tayong may deficit... hahaha... how i wish...

IDMTMIL

December 4th, 2005, 07:00 PM

Hay Naku,
I've participated in two balikatans already. Kawawa naman ang common foot soldier sa RP. Sira sira ang combat boots. I once asked this Phil. Marines why he is still guarding the perimeter after how many hours of duty and no lunch/food whatsoever. He replied " Sir, as long as I have cigarette and water I am okay" kawawa naman. Tapos, yung RP officers, papasarap lang palagi, minsan tutulog sa afternoon military maneuvers at nagtatago. This officer instructed his own men to not bother him.

Animo

December 4th, 2005, 07:55 PM

lolz!

you know I've always thought that the Philippines is hosting a secret research facility somewhere... you know for advance technologies and stuffs... it could be somewhere like under the Clark Expo Filipino (kaya sobrang mahal nya!!!). tapos it is well funded kaya lagi tayong may deficit... hahaha... how i wish...

Ala Project Manhattan.... :)

That would be nice!

Lili

December 4th, 2005, 09:47 PM

paulkrps

December 16th, 2005, 06:26 PM

sana naman merong tayong ganito:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b74/paulkrps/2005_12_16t101019_450x354_us_arms_u.jpg

F-22 joins US fleet as top fighter
By Jim Wolf Thu Dec 15, 2:31 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The futuristic F-22A "Raptor" fighter jet, designed to dominate the skies well into the 21st century, joined the U.S. combat fleet on Thursday, 20 years after it was conceived to fight Soviet MiGs over Europe.

The Air Force said "initial operational capability" had been achieved by 16 of the aircraft at the 1st Fighter Wing's 27th Fighter Squadron at Langley Air Force Base, Virginia.

Pilots in the squadron, the Air Force's oldest in continuous operation, have been training on the F-22, the Air Force's most advanced weapon system, for about a year.

"If we go to war tomorrow, the Raptor will go with us," Gen. Ronald Keys, head of the Air Force's Air Combat command, said in a statement. He said it was ready for use in combat worldwide or for homeland defense.

The aircraft's role is to "kick the doors down" in a conflict, as Pentagon officials put it, knocking out defenses on the ground and in the air to clear the way for other warplanes and forces.

The radar-evading Raptor is twice as reliable and three times more effective than the F-15C Eagle it is replacing as the top U.S. air-to-air fighter, according to Lockheed Martin Corp., its developer.

Lockheed described the fighter as the world's most advanced and said it was "relevant for the next 40 years."

Boeing Co. and Northrop Grumman Corp. are top F-22 subcontractors. United Technologies Corp.'s Pratt & Whitney unit makes the aircraft's two engines.

STEALTHY AND SUPERSONIC

The Raptor combines low-observability, or stealth, with supersonic speed, agility and cockpit displays designed to boost greatly pilots' awareness of the situation around them.

At a "fly-away" cost of about $130 million each for the most recent batch, not including research and development, it is also one of the most controversial U.S. warplanes ever.

Critics have termed it unaffordable overkill in a world without the potential threat of a Soviet Union able to send swarms of MiGs into a dogfight, which prompted its inception in 1986.

The Air Force is planning to stretch F-22 production until 2010 to keep Lockheed's production line open pending arrival of its more affordable F-35 Joint Strike Fighter family of aircraft that will also go to the Navy, the Marines and co-developing nations that include Britain, Italy and Turkey.

The F-22 also has a ground attack capability to drop 250-pound (113.5-kg), small-diameter bombs or 1,000-pound (454-kg) Joint Direct Attack Munitions while flying at supersonic speeds.

Gen. Michael Moseley, the Air Force chief of staff, has said the F-22 is needed against threats such as Russian-built surface-to-air missiles sold overseas.

Moseley said on Tuesday he hoped to buy 183 F-22s, four more than currently in the budget and enough for seven combat-ready squadrons, down from the 750 F-22s once planned.

Others have cast it as the weapon of choice for any future U.S. conflict with China, for instance over Taiwan.

"There is a clear role for F-22 here," said Daniel Goure, a former Pentagon strategist now at the Lexington Institute, an Arlington, Virginia, research group with close ties to the U.S. defense establishment.

As of last month, 53 F-22s had been delivered to the Air Force. Eventually, a squadron is expected to be based on the Pacific island of Guam, a U.S. territory within striking distance of China.

kiretoce

December 16th, 2005, 06:41 PM

^^ Let's dream some more.... ;)

paulkrps

December 16th, 2005, 07:46 PM

^^ sana parang yung sa stealth din kimber. hihihi.

Dr_Joe

December 20th, 2005, 03:43 PM

NASCOM and MIT develop RP Combat Robots
http://static.flickr.com/20/72084455_ac89d65f29_o_d.jpg
The Naval Sea Systems Command (PN) and Mapua Robotics (MIT) jointly developed prototypes of semi-autonomous combat robots. Live-fire demonstration was held in Cavite Naval Base last Dec. 2, 2005. The above picture shows Project Phalanx (left) and Project Trident Strike (center). Other aspects of the projects are still highly classified.

bulakenyo

December 20th, 2005, 10:20 PM

Nung nasa highschool pa ako nakabasa ako ng article that the governement plans to purchase a number of french-made mirage jet fighters. mukhang hindi natuloy. sayang! haaaayyy!!

JAMAICUS

January 5th, 2006, 12:55 PM

RP seeks weapons to fight insurgencies

First posted 05:34pm (Mla time) Jan 05, 2006
Agence France-Presse

Subscribe to Breaking News alerts, send ON EXTRA BREAKING to 2207 for Globe, or send EXTRA BREAKING to 386 for Smart.

THE Philippines is opening tenders for 29 million dollars-worth of automatic weapons and communications equipment to boost its capability to fight various insurgencies, the defense department said Thursday.

A government procurement panel has authorized the department to open tenders for a 593 million-peso (11.31 million-dollar) contract for automatic weapons and a 930.8 million-peso contract for VHF/FM tactical radios, it said in a statement.

Defense Secretary Avelino Cruz has said there was an "immediate need of the (armed
forces) for these mission-essential equipment in its internal security operations," the statement added.

The Philippines is fighting a 37-year communist insurgency while observing a truce with Muslim separatists in the south that is now on its third year.

http://news.inq7.net/breaking/index.php?index=1&story_id=62066

lochinvar

January 6th, 2006, 11:37 AM

Procuring these high ticket items is next to impossible with the Philippines dire financial situation. The Philippines should concentrate instead on making sure that our ordinary foot soldiers get their proper equipment as well as financial support. Some countries like Panama, Costa Rica, Haiti don't even have armed forces. Except for Haiti, the other two are stable and progressing very well. As long as the U.S. is a Pacific power, the two Asian powers that can wreck havoc in the Far East will behave. Our main problem are insurgency and secession and we can tackle them by giving enough support to our ordinary foot soldiers. In addition, we should make sure that our generals are behaving like how an officer and a gentleman they should be. Kickback and corruption of high echelon officers should be stopped.

January 24th, 2006, 02:33 AM

Anu nangyari dun sa dalawang f-16 nabinili ni ramos noong mga late 90's??? dba nasa frontpage pa yun ng newspaper... hehe

Askal82

January 24th, 2006, 02:45 AM

OtAkAw

January 24th, 2006, 08:59 AM

Let's ask Daddy Bush to give us some of their surplus military items.

kyle@1008

January 24th, 2006, 01:03 PM

^^ or we could train all our, domestic helpers in espionage ....terrorism and assasination ,.. so in case of an attack... we can unleash all our embedded "secret" weapons on our enemies.... we could wipe em out faster than they can do us...

Keep your friends close but your enemies closer...

Skyblade

January 25th, 2006, 01:11 PM

lol wasn't there a joke floating around about how Filipinos would take over the world thanks to the strategic positioning of OFWs er something? ;)

January 26th, 2006, 09:03 AM

what happened to the 2 f-16's that ramos bought?? where are they now?? =\

January 26th, 2006, 09:17 AM

ahhh di pla f-16 yun mga MIG-29's pala.. hehhe kaya lang di pala yun natuloy.. hehehe eto ang link: http://www.aeroworldnet.com/1ra09227.htm

fenix

January 26th, 2006, 09:45 AM

pretty interesting, good to know there were actual plans of obtaining those. it would be awesome. if only it went through.. :no:

Manila-X

January 26th, 2006, 10:18 AM

kyle@1008

January 26th, 2006, 10:24 AM

^^ diplomacy is our main weapon..... our alliance with NATO and ASEAN will serve as our shield ... :colgate:

besides china's leaders have filipino maids.... they do anything and we'll have em assassinated

Askal82

January 26th, 2006, 10:25 AM

^^ No you didn't offend anyone, alam naman natin yan no. Of course. :lol:

ishtefh_03

January 26th, 2006, 10:51 AM

yeah, alam naman natin an luma na ang ginagamit ng pinas or mga second hand...

heathcliff

January 26th, 2006, 12:05 PM

I heard recently that P5 billion has been allocated for the Philippine defense reform program. This is part of the P35 billion to be spent on pump priming the economy. Among other things, attention to the housing, food, health and education of soldiers' families will help boost the morale of our soldiers.

The Balikatan exercises should continue as they seem to be very useful in upgrading the capacities of the AFP.

lochinvar

January 26th, 2006, 12:29 PM

"besides china's leaders have filipino maids.... they do anything and we'll have em assassinated"

They do what to whom? To the Filipina maids? To the Philippines? There are already lots of hapless stories of Filipina maids in Kuwait.

Skyblade

January 28th, 2006, 02:35 PM

AH-7Raja

January 28th, 2006, 02:59 PM

have you guys heard about the ah-1s cobra gunship coming to town? and a couple of russian made mi's helicopters? they were supposed to be purchased by the afp and be delivered this year...

AH-7Raja

January 28th, 2006, 03:18 PM

No offense people but The Philippines is one of the poorest equipped armed forces in South East Asia. Even Indonesia got their F-16s! Isn't The Philippines a close ally of The United States? Anyway, I don't think The Philippines need those F-16s or Migs or Abrams battle tanks. You guys just need something enough for domestic issues. And you guys don't have major enemies unless China would wanna pick a fight with you over the Spratly issue.

yes and nope. its true that we are indeed have the poorest airforce and navy, but we badly needed something immediate modern weapons to combat local insurgency effectively, also we need a lot of modern fighters and warships to patrol our huge archipelago... u know that mother china, red vietnam, and the malaysian bullies were creeping around our especial economic zone and stealing our fishing ground and potential mineral resources specially around spratley islands! not only that, there were sightings of unmarked vessels and aircrafts roaming around our country and dropping supplies to the rebels... report says, they were possibly of chinese who were been supporting the communist rebels and the malaysians who were supporting the islamic fundamentalist rebels... tsk tsk tsk...

jrevalde

January 30th, 2006, 02:21 AM

renell

January 30th, 2006, 02:46 AM

yes and nope. its true that we are indeed have the poorest airforce and navy, but we badly needed something immediate modern weapons to combat local insurgency effectively, also we need a lot of modern fighters and warships to patrol our huge archipelago... u know that mother china, red vietnam, and the malaysian bullies were creeping around our especial economic zone and stealing our fishing ground and potential mineral resources specially around spratley islands! not only that, there were sightings of unmarked vessels and aircrafts roaming around our country and dropping supplies to the rebels... report says, they were possibly of chinese who were been supporting the communist rebels and the malaysians who were supporting the islamic fundamentalist rebels... tsk tsk tsk...

pfft gee you're way ahead of yourself there we can't afford F-16s, modern fighters and warships. We can't even keep our current fleet floating. As much as the AFP wants to protect the Spratlys, or part of it that we currently occupy, I think extremist insurgents and NPA should be our main target so we need just basics like improve transport, air cover for our ground troops and proper medical equipment and of course new guns I've heard our M16s are from 1972 and can't shoot straight. about the Chinese and Malaysians supporting evil elements I hope that's not true but the AFP can't do crap about that, they're already struggling to fight internal battles let alone external.

so in summary we're a sitting duck should anyone try to invade us, but who would seeing our political position? ;)

Skyblade

January 30th, 2006, 11:08 AM

have you guys heard about the ah-1s cobra gunship coming to town? and a couple of russian made mi's helicopters? they were supposed to be purchased by the afp and be delivered this year...
I've heard that the AFP was going to acquire 8 attack helicopters to augment the current fleet, haven't heard yet that they actually chose what type they were going to purchase...

renell

January 31st, 2006, 02:00 AM

hey skyblade is it a purchase or acquire? find it hard to believe the AFP is going to actually buy something instead of begging for it:D hows their current helicopter attack fleet right now? Is it still Hueys with machine guns on the side and the MD520s?

Askal82

January 31st, 2006, 02:03 AM

^^ They're probably flying coffins.

Skyblade

February 1st, 2006, 08:30 AM

Not sure, renell but I think it may be an actual purchase. Well the numbers of operational UH-1s is on the rise and seriously, PAF needs something to compliment the current MD-520 fleet.

David-80

February 1st, 2006, 03:04 PM

have you guys heard about the ah-1s cobra gunship coming to town? and a couple of russian made mi's helicopters? they were supposed to be purchased by the afp and be delivered this year...

I dont think AH-1 or even Mi-35 helicopters will go to AFP, there are no confirmation from RossenB russia about the purchase nor from US defence department

AFP doesnt need attack helos, but i think they needs more logistic support and troops armament to fight Abu sayaff. I was thinking that they can do some replacement with the Hueys and fitting it with machine guns and small rockets, rather than buy a brand new AH-1 Cobra and Mi-35s. Its still an attack helos anyway.

I already observing this Phil defense ever since i hadnt joined SSC (throught opus forum), so as non-filipino, i pretty much quite understand what the PAF facing right now. My opinion for the Phil troops, they need to do some trade swapping, like what Indonesia, Thailand and Malaysia does, we purchase brand new sukhois and Mi-35 by using credit exports and commodities swapping.

cheers

Skyblade

February 2nd, 2006, 02:04 PM

Hey David-80 do you have a username in Opus's forum?

David-80

February 2nd, 2006, 03:03 PM

normandb

February 2nd, 2006, 03:32 PM

We should focus much on long range missiles and secure the spratlys, scarborough, and take back Sabah :D

Php5 Billion is relatively low compared to the Pork Barrel of our Congressman and Senators and these people are not even essential in our country's security and economy.

renell

February 3rd, 2006, 01:53 PM

^^ They're probably flying coffins.

well they are all, PAF's aircraft without proper maintenance. I've read that the most properly maintained aircraft of the Air Force are the ones politicians use. Talk about priorities :bash:

JAMAICUS

February 3rd, 2006, 01:59 PM

Qouted from Wikipedia :
Aircraft
At present the backbone of the PhAF inventory consists:

Aermacchi S-211 for ground support and advanced jet training
Aermacchi SF-260TP/WP for primary training and counter-insurgency (COIN)
North American Rockwell OV-10A/D Bronco for light ground attack
Hughes MG-520 Defender and Sikorsky S-76 attack helicopters
Lockheed C-130B/H Hercules, and Bell UH-1H Huey helicopters for transport duties
Fokker F28, mainly for the official domestic trips of the president of the Philippines

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Air_Force

Skyblade

February 3rd, 2006, 03:19 PM

Yes, my username is Polri, but i has long not using it since his forum got hacked, i have no idea if timawa.net or opus229 are back online. I was advised to join the global asian defence forum by adroth long time ago, but i didnt because i already visited too many forums ..lol

cheers
omg...POLRI!?!?! I seriously remember you back in Opus's forums! I NEVER knew that you, David-80, were our Indonesian brother in the forums! m)) Anyhow the Timawa forums are back online and we'd be glad to have you back there!

Anyhow, PAF wise, the only jet aircraft operating is the S.211 and the presidential F.28. Unfortunately PAF did lose an OV-10 which makes one less in the already small operational inventory...and one less member in the pilot corps...:(

renell

February 5th, 2006, 02:35 AM

Have they talked about getting a replacement, or something to help decrease the workload in the OV-10s? Perhaps another COIN propeller-aircraft, I just can't see the PAF maintaining more and more jets aircraft with the current budget.

OtAkAw

February 5th, 2006, 11:12 AM

I am hoping that at least one supreme Pinoy politician is in this forum because we represent the sentiments of the Filipino people as a whole. We clamour for improvements and developments, I just hope we have the money. We HAD the money but the supply died away.

AH-7Raja

February 6th, 2006, 09:25 PM

Philippines To Purchase Unmanned Spy Planes
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, MANILA

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1505597&C=airwar

Philippines President Gloria Arroyo has ordered the purchase of unmanned spy planes to help guard the troubled southeast Asian archipelago’s maritime borders, the presidential palace said Feb 1.

The executive order issued by Arroyo called for a “maritime aerial reconnaissance and surveillance” program to be supervised by the intelligence services, according to the text of the order released by her office.

Arroyo authorized the “procurement or lease of unmanned aerial vehicles”, or drones, as well as other reconnaissance and surveillance equipment, the statement said.

The new spy hardware shall provide “dominant situational awareness to swiftly and effectively interdict when an illegal activity occurs,” she said.

The Philippines is grappling with both communist and Muslim separatist rebellions, as well as the threat of violence from Islamic militants with alleged links to the Al-Qaeda network.

Manila also is embroiled in a territorial dispute with its neighbors over the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.

The drones will primarily fly over maritime zones to “enhance the national capability to gather near real-time video recording and information for decision-making needs,” the Arroyo directive said.

The Philippines is an archipelago of more than 7,000 islands that shares a vast, common sea border with other Southeast Asian countries where Al-Qaeda-linked militants operate.

Regional intelligence officials say members of the Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) network, blamed for a string of deadly attacks, have been freely entering the southern Philippine island of Mindanao to train with local militants.

=========================================

in the other related defense news, both indian and philippine governments have signed some agreements about tourism and military technology and training exchanges...

i think its about time to learn something from india, how to be self-reliant. philippines should follow their steps!

AH-7Raja

February 6th, 2006, 10:23 PM

Really, is there an article about this? Man, that would be sweet!

Philippines puts off fighter contest

The Philippine air force plans to launch competitions this year for new attack and utility helicopters, but has delayed its intended procurements of new ground-attack and fighter aircraft.

Air force chief Jose Reyes says six night-capable attack helicopters will be acquired later this year under the first phase of a new 18-year spending plan. Bell Helicopter’s AH-1Z SuperCobra and Boeing’s AH-64D Apache Longbow have already been ruled out from the 1.3 billion peso ($24 million) contest, with the service instead evaluating used AH-1s and Russian helicopters. The air force intends to release a tender for the requirement as soon as its 2006 budget is finalised. The service is also finalising a requirement for new utility helicopters capable of transporting 15 troops and lifting an external load of 1,130kg (2,500lb).

An evaluation of potential aircraft – which will also be equipped for search and rescue, firefighting and medical evacuation duties – should be launched later this year, with a first batch of aircraft to be bought in 2007 for delivery in 2008-9. The aircraft will initially supplement the air force’s fleet of Bell UH-1H Hueys, which will expand from 43 to around 80 aircraft over the next year through the addition of ex-US Army airframes.

However, Reyes envisages ultimately using the new type to replace the UH-1. “We need to look forward to see what helicopter will replace the UH-1,” he says.“Our ideal requirement is for 100 [utility helicopters]. We are not even half way to meeting our requirements.”

Reyes says helicopter acquisitions have been made the air force’s top priority in a bid to improve Philippine security. As a result, most of the service’s other acquisitions have been pushed back until the next six-year spending programme, to begin in 2012. A major exception is for maritime patrol aircraft, with the service having shortlisted the Bombardier Dash 8 and Lockheed Martin P-3 Orion for an initial three-aircraft requirement to be met late in its current six-year plan. A further three aircraft will be acquired from 2012.

A programme to acquire new ground-attack aircraft to replace the air force’s 14 Rockwell OV-10 Broncos is scheduled to start in the six-year plan beginning 2012, with Manila looking at a jet solution also capable of meeting its interdiction and lead-in fighter trainer requirements.

Reyes says the air force also plans eventually to restore a fighter capability lost last year with the retirement of its last Northrop  F-5s, but that this programme has been delayed until the six-year plan to begin in 2018. The service currently operates four Aermacchi S211 jet trainers to keep its fighter pilots proficient.

BRENDAN SOBIE/MANILA

http://www.flightinternational.com/Articles/2006/01/17/Navigation/190/204092/Philippines+puts+off+fighter+contest.html

some interesting links: southeast asian arms race and comparison views:
http://www.ntu.edu.sg/idss/publications/WorkingPapers/WP59.PDF

corruptions 1992-1998:
http://www.pcij.org/stories/2001/lockheed2.html

AFP bibili ng fighter planes

NAKATAKDANG bumili ang Armed Forces of the Phili-ppines ng mga karagdagang eroplano bilang bahagi ng kanilang pagpapalakas ng puwersa ngayong taon.

Sinabi ni AFP-Public In-formation Office chief, Col. Tristan Kison, nakahanay na sa kanilang plano ang pagbili ng mga "multi-role fighter planes" ngayong taon.

Ipinaliwanag ni Kison na hindi nila kailangang sumunod sa uso o "in" na fighter planes sa ibang bansa na may kamahalan ang presyo at ang mahalaga lamang sa kanila ay makabili ng mga eroplanong multi-functional at hindi nalalaos.

"Katulad sa Air Force, hindi natin sinasabing F16 ang kailangan natin because after ng three o six year period baka hindi na uso ang F16, so ang kailangan natin multi-role fighter, hindi tayo tumitingin sa modelo," saad ni Kison.

Marlon Purificacion

Monday, January 02, 2006, People's Journal
8:08:34 PM

GOOD NEWS TO US, BAD NEWS FOR THE TERRORRISTS.

BTW, some interesting development stories and pictures about AFP, pls click icon:

http://www.hueybravo.net/Marinepages/armor.htm#reinforced

http://www.hueybravo.net/Marinepages/wheels.htm#Marine_Multi-Purpose_Vehicle

http://timawa.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=05927a0d4641e03944ec060a1cba38c3&topic=3122.0

and this is the possible attack helicopter we will be getting this year or those of russian made Mi's:

http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/ah-1smod.htm

and take a good look at its armaments:

http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/ah1sm28.jpg

This is good enough, soon we will see it patrolling our sky, attacking the terrorrists, and so here we will welcome you...

AH-1S Cobra, here we come...

http://tri.army.mil/LC/cs/csa/ah1sleft.jpg

then hopefully one day, we'll get to purchase the other version of it, the AH-1F:

http://tri.army.mil/lc/cs/csa/ah1frgt.jpg

http://www.vectorsite.net/avcobra_2.html

see the difference... :)

The Philippines
http://www.aviationtoday.com/cgi/rw/show_mag.cgi?pub=rw&mon=1199&file=11rwpacrim.htm

The Philippines is looking for as many as six helicopters to operate off two or three new patrol vessels. The recently independent Philippine coast guard also has a requirement for as many as four helicopters. Naval helicopter needs, combined with an air force SAR requirement for 14 helicopters, makes the Philippines a potential 20+ market for maritime rotorcraft.

Among the manufacturers contending for business in the Philippines are: Bell Helicopter Textron with the 412; Kaman Aerospace with the SH-2G; and Eurocopter with the AS-565 Panther. The Panther serves with the naval forces of France, Ireland, Israel, and Abu Dhabi. However, Bell is seen as the front runner for the air force SAR contract."

some related news...

Two Nations Go Fighterless
by James Dunnigan

November 20, 2005

Another Pacific island nation has gotten rid of its air force. Well, sort of. New Zealand sold off its warplanes, after disbanding its fighter force in 2001. Last month, the Philippines removed from service its eight F-5 fighters. These 1960s era aircraft were not much of a match for any more recent warplanes, and expensive to maintain. The Philippines, like New Zealand, has kept helicopters, and some reconnaissance aircraft, in service. The Philippines is also keeping in service five S211 jet trainers, which can be used for ground attack, or air-to-air operations (like against terrorists who have hijacked an aircraft.) In both cases, the nations in question saw no practical need for a jet fighter force. While this is dicey for the Philippines, which faces possible clashes with China, New Zealand is nowhere near any hostile nation’s air power. But the Filipinos are being practical, as they could never afford to buy and maintain warplanes sufficient to deal with a Chinese air threat. Like New Zealand, the Philippines depends on its friendship with the United States for protection. American warplanes provide better protection than any jet fighters New Zealand and the Philippines could put in the air.

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/art...05112004659.asp

Philippines To Purchase Unmanned Spy Planes
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, MANILA

http://www.defensenews.com/story.ph...97&C=airwar

Philippines President Gloria Arroyo has ordered the purchase of unmanned spy planes to help guard the troubled southeast Asian archipelago’s maritime borders, the presidential palace said Feb 1.

The executive order issued by Arroyo called for a “maritime aerial reconnaissance and surveillance” program to be supervised by the intelligence services, according to the text of the order released by her office.

Arroyo authorized the “procurement or lease of unmanned aerial vehicles”, or drones, as well as other reconnaissance and surveillance equipment, the statement said.

The new spy hardware shall provide “dominant situational awareness to swiftly and effectively interdict when an illegal activity occurs,” she said.

The Philippines is grappling with both communist and Muslim separatist rebellions, as well as the threat of violence from Islamic militants with alleged links to the Al-Qaeda network.

Manila also is embroiled in a territorial dispute with its neighbors over the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea.

The drones will primarily fly over maritime zones to “enhance the national capability to gather near real-time video recording and information for decision-making needs,” the Arroyo directive said.

The Philippines is an archipelago of more than 7,000 islands that shares a vast, common sea border with other Southeast Asian countries where Al-Qaeda-linked militants operate.

Regional intelligence officials say members of the Jemaah Islamiyah (JI) network, blamed for a string of deadly attacks, have been freely entering the southern Philippine island of Mindanao to train with local militants.

MirageBistro

April 17th, 2006, 05:28 PM

Random Military photos:

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/106mmnew.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/AAGun4.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/AAGun6.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/airborneNEW.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/artillerynew.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/assetsNEW.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/balikatan20landing.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/BK2004new.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/ceremonial20battery.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/drum202620bugle20pic.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/FIRE20MISSION2011.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/FIRE20MISSION209.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/Flotlla.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/infantry2NEW.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/infantry3NEW.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/infantryNEW.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/liguasan20marsh203.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/luneta2NEW.jpg

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/MBLT5-4.jpg

April 18th, 2006, 02:50 AM

sponge_bob_oy

April 18th, 2006, 05:47 AM

^^ I strongly disagree. This is a serious and fatal misconception that is unfortunately shared by some of the AFP's top generals. Kung wala tayong effective na air and naval cover that will ensure continuous re-supply of ammunition and war materiel, our troops will eventually lose the war to an enemy that has effective and total control of both areas of combat.

JAMAICUS

April 18th, 2006, 06:07 AM

^^ Sama mo. He was just being nationalistic of our army which I believe is strong enough to at least fend off certain wars. At least we have certain military capabilities and equipment.

April 18th, 2006, 02:14 PM

Oh really well spongebob then how can u explain the greatest the most advanced and high tech and most powerfull military behemoth of USA losing the battle in iraq and alos in the past in vietnam?? That is the art of unconventional warfare or the new type of war which is the 4th Generation warfare and it clearly shows how an inferior old tech force can defeat a modern high tech enemy.

bitoy

April 19th, 2006, 02:21 AM

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h137/jamesarkoss/AAGun6.jpg

I love these triple A's, Those are WWII version, now they have the radar guided Gun-Tower or Computer controlled Gatling gun.

The Philippines in 1960's is one of the best equipped military forces in the Southeast Asia. Right now we don't even have a good Supersonic Jet-fighter.

Here are some more Pictures of The AFP --

Tribute to AFP: WE SALUTE YOU. (http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225788&page=6)

demented_pigeon

April 19th, 2006, 04:40 AM

bakit kasi sobrang arte natin pag dating sa pag acquire ng hindi US military equipment... kaya namang tapatan ng mga Russian at French made equipment yung US made at minsan mas mura pa... the biggest setback our country has is our overdependence on US military hardware instead of having a diversified arsenal... we insist on using the M16 for example when we could use the AK47 which has proven itself to be more effective in close quarter combats and very humid conditions... (lahat naman ng naging encounters natin sa mga insurgents natin ganito lagi e.)
another dissapointing fact is the AFPs reluctance to acquire Filipino made military hardware like those made by Armscor (hindi ito pipitsuging paltik!) they're cheaper and the company even donates a few of their new products and designs to the AFP just to convince them that our capabilities to create our own hardware to suit our own battle conditions is not far-fetched at all.

demented_pigeon

April 19th, 2006, 04:44 AM

Nung nasa highschool pa ako nakabasa ako ng article that the governement plans to purchase a number of french-made mirage jet fighters. mukhang hindi natuloy. sayang! haaaayyy!!
nangyari yata yun nung falkland crisis hindi na siguro tinuloy kasi halos ginisa ng mga harrier jets ng UK ung mirage fighters ng Argentina...and to think the mirage fighters are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy faster than the harriers

demented_pigeon

April 19th, 2006, 04:50 AM

because of corruption, were the poorest armed forcs in asia even in the whole world, actually isa lang nmn sa dahilan, the main reason is ung 5 partylist n nakaupo sa house of representatives
1. akbayan
2. gabriela
3. anakpawis
4. bayan
5. foreget ko na

basta ung 5 political wing ng CPP-NPA
i have 2 friends na myembro ng PAF, bago mag-election last year(2004) sabi nila sa amin, hwag iboto ang 5 partylist kasi sila ang dahilan kung bakit nawawala ang AFP moden. Fund :eek2:
correction dude... akbayan was part of the house committee to develop the AFP... ibig mo siguro sabihin BAYAN MUNA... ung bayan i their umbrella organization un ung mother organization ng halos lahat na national democratic parties... ung akbayan is social democratic, ibig sabihin hindi sila affiliated sa NPA. sila pa nga ang isa sa mga nag udyok sa AFP na pulbusin na ang NPA.

bitoy

April 19th, 2006, 05:29 AM

Me mga ka batch ako na nag retire na sa AFP, most of them are very disappointed because of the failure of the Gov't and high ranking military officials on upgrading the AFP.
Let's admit it; most of the budgets going to AFP were stolen by Public and Military officials. Mas marami pang Generals kaysa sa tangke at eroplano ng Pilipinas. Mas marami pang Admiral kaysa sa barko ng Pilipinas. Will that send a message to everyone?
We are not in a state of war, but we are in a state where the insurgents are playing with our military and police personnels in the provinces not properly equipped to fight them.
We could not even fight and get rid of the NPA's and Abbu Sayyafs. Or maybe the AFP just don't want to.

By the way, it has nothing to do with purchasing US military surplus or other foreign made military gears, the US are giving them to AFP as a token of friendship for being an ally in ASIA.
Even Thailand donated those Bronco's, only some of the few planes flying around since the vietnam war.

April 19th, 2006, 10:13 AM

nangyari yata yun nung falkland crisis hindi na siguro tinuloy kasi halos ginisa ng mga harrier jets ng UK ung mirage fighters ng Argentina...and to think the mirage fighters are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy faster than the harriers

Harriers maybe slow and sub-sonic but they are one of the best manueverable and agile aircraft in close quarter dogfighting. One great advatage it has is VTOL.. and it is so freakin awesome but now have the f-22 a supersonic, stealth, VTOL, agile and also a fast dogfigther, can also be able to land and take off in carriers. It's all kinds of figthers combined in one.. wohooooo!!! but it costs a fortune. Also it prototype counterpart the YF-23. They are so cooolll!!!

bitoy

April 19th, 2006, 05:38 PM

but now have the f-22 a supersonic, stealth, VTOL, agile and also a fast dogfigther, can also be able to land and take off in carriers. It's all kinds of figthers combined in one.. wohooooo!!! but it costs a fortune. Also it prototype counterpart the YF-23. They are so cooolll!!!

F-22 Raptors - I've seen those during their test flights at Edwards, but not VTOL, they can do a post-stall flight, like stopping in mid-air.

This next generation plane will be an awesome aircraft --> JSF-X35 Program (http://www.jsf.mil/gallery/gal_video.htm#x35)

http://www.jsf.mil/images/gallery/cdp/lockheed/x35b/thumbs/cdp_loc_stovl_001.jpg http://www.jsf.mil/images/gallery/cdp/lockheed/x35b/thumbs/cdp_loc_stovl_011.jpg

April 19th, 2006, 06:53 PM

F-22 Raptors - I've seen those during their test flights at Edwards, but not VTOL, they can do a post-stall flight, like stopping in mid-air.

This next generation plane will be an awesome aircraft --> JSF-X35 Program (http://www.jsf.mil/gallery/gal_video.htm#x35)

http://www.jsf.mil/images/gallery/cdp/lockheed/x35b/thumbs/cdp_loc_stovl_001.jpg http://www.jsf.mil/images/gallery/cdp/lockheed/x35b/thumbs/cdp_loc_stovl_011.jpg

Wow so many new figthers... and makes me wonder what does china also have in their secret backyard.

ryanr

April 19th, 2006, 10:29 PM

^ They are developing new fighters as well, and improving the J-10.

If ever the government and the military plans to acquire new jets, i think they should get the Saab Gripen. Its much cheaper than American jets, and easier to maintain. Its also a multi-role fighter.
Therefore, they can get a bigger fleet of jets.
http://www5.in.tum.de/lehre/seminare/semsoft/unterlagen_02/ariane/website/Img/jas39.jpg

sponge_bob_oy

April 19th, 2006, 10:34 PM

^^ Sama mo. He was just being nationalistic of our army which I believe is strong enough to at least fend off certain wars. At least we have certain military capabilities and equipment.

I'm sorry if my statement rubbed you guys the wrong way. I'm not criticizing TJ for being proud of the Philippine army's capabilities for there are certainly a lot of things to be proud of. Ang point ko lang is that in the event of a full-scale war, malabong manalo tayo even with the use of guerilla tactics kung wala tayong effective air and naval support. Unlike Vietnam and Iraq, our country is an archipelago. Puro islands and that's why naval and aerial capabilities are important in making sure na ang mga sundalo natin ay re-supplied in the areas that they are doing battle. Vietnam and Iraq are both landlocked countries. Vietnam may be facing the South China Sea to the east pero to its west are Cambodia and Laos. Communist China continued to supply Vietnam with much-needed ammunition and equipment through the Ho Chi Minh trail that wound through those countries into Vietnam. Iraq naman is getting re-supplied through the Syrian and Iranian borders. Those are the reasons why the US lost to Vietnam and why it's having a hard time in Iraq. Being an archipelago, wala tayong ganyang advantage. That's all I'm trying to point out and pasensiya na po kung medyo naging marahas ang dating ng aking salita. That's certainly not the purpose of my statement. Sorry po uli pero that's the reality of the Philippine military situation.

JAMAICUS

April 20th, 2006, 06:12 AM

Well, this Philippine forums is known for its optimitic views. It's better we not think we are going to be enganged to war.

MirageBistro

April 20th, 2006, 06:25 AM

Even without this fancy machines and modern high-tech gadgets our troops are among the world's top best and probably the best in unconventional warfare and guerilla warfare they can go head to head with the top elite forces the world has to offer.
If there is a will there is a way, and you find the way.
You held back the Uncle Sam during 1898-1900 , and you can do it again :)

MirageBistro

April 20th, 2006, 06:26 AM

April 20th, 2006, 12:37 PM

I'm sorry if my statement rubbed you guys the wrong way. I'm not criticizing TJ for being proud of the Philippine army's capabilities for there are certainly a lot of things to be proud of. Ang point ko lang is that in the event of a full-scale war, malabong manalo tayo even with the use of guerilla tactics kung wala tayong effective air and naval support. Unlike Vietnam and Iraq, our country is an archipelago. Puro islands and that's why naval and aerial capabilities are important in making sure na ang mga sundalo natin ay re-supplied in the areas that they are doing battle. Vietnam and Iraq are both landlocked countries. Vietnam may be facing the South China Sea to the east pero to its west are Cambodia and Laos. Communist China continued to supply Vietnam with much-needed ammunition and equipment through the Ho Chi Minh trail that wound through those countries into Vietnam. Iraq naman is getting re-supplied through the Syrian and Iranian borders. Those are the reasons why the US lost to Vietnam and why it's having a hard time in Iraq. Being an archipelago, wala tayong ganyang advantage. That's all I'm trying to point out and pasensiya na po kung medyo naging marahas ang dating ng aking salita. That's certainly not the purpose of my statement. Sorry po uli pero that's the reality of the Philippine military situation.

If that is the case then can't we cut off the supplies of arms of the abu sayaf and npa, milf and other rebel terror groups?? Being a landlocked country doesn't give that much of an advantage to that of an island country that you can effectively cut their supply routes as the sea can also be as effective supply route as the land.

April 20th, 2006, 12:56 PM

Book Review:

4th Generation Warfare - The Changing Face of War in the 21st Century

by Chet Richards
October 15, 2004

Chet Richards is author of Certain to Win: The Strategy of John Boyd Applied to Business, and is Editor of Defense and the National Interest, which holds several papers by Colonel Hammes.

The Sling and The Stone, On War in the 21st Century
Colonel Thomas X. Hammes, USMC
Published by Zenith Press, St. Paul MN 2004

In 1991, Israeli historian and military analyst Martin van Creveld shocked the defense community with The Transformation of War. At least, he shocked that part more worried about post-Soviet threats than about buying weapons.

Van Creveld preached that future danger to the West would come from groups other than state armies, and that they would employ means that we would find repulsively violent and indiscriminate. In the intervening 13 years, all this has come to pass, but, as Marine Colonel T. X. Hammes eloquently argues in this important new book, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

What we are in fact seeing is "fourth generation warfare," (4GW) a term coined in a seminal 1989 paper in the Marine Corps Gazette and now easily available on the Internet[1]. Hammes argues that 4GW, far from being something academic or esoteric, represents the cumulative efforts of "practical people" trying to solve the problem of confronting superior military power. Their efforts are bearing fruit:

At the strategic level, the combination of our perceived technological superiority and our bureaucratic organization sets us up for a major failure against a more agile, intellectually prepared enemy.

The failure, in Hammes' view, will not be defeat in some Clausewitzian "decisive battle," but failure nonetheless as American politicians, tiring of the costs and despairing of victory, withdraw our forces short of achieving our objectives. Since it involves war of the (militarily) weak against the strong, any combat associated with 4GW will likely be "an evolved form of insurgency."

A twist is that 4GW also involves transnational elements, that is, tribes, criminal organizations (e.g., narcotrafficking cartels), nations that don't have states, and of course, ideological groups like al-Qa'ida. The most effective of these entities form social networks that blend into the fabric of the societies in which they operate.

Hammes dates the origins of 4GW to the 1930s, when Mao Tse-Tung broke with Marxist-Leninist orthodoxy in order to solve the problem of employing peasantry instead of proletariat to defeat the Nationalists. He traces the evolution of 4GW through its successes—the Vietnamese, Sandinistas, Somalis, and Palestinians (in the first Intifada)—and its failures—the Al-Aqsa Intifada and perhaps al-Qa'ida. So in Hammes' view, 4GW is no classroom theory but a field-tested method of warfare, and only naïve adversaries will choose anything else.

This is inevitable, Hammes concludes, because when 4GW organizations remain true to their networked roots, and keep their focus on influencing their state opponent's desire to continue, they win. Such organizations only lose when they drop out of the 4GW paradigm—as when the Palestinians of the Al Aqsa Intifida shifted their focus away from influencing Israeli and Western opinion and towards the destruction of Israel.

The chapters that describe and document these conclusions are vividly written and make a compelling case that in general, 4GW practitioners are succeeding in evolving ways of finding/creating and exploiting weaknesses in American concepts of war. You can see this in action in Iraq, where despite a $500 billion defense budget (including the cost of continuing in Iraq for another year), both our alliance and US domestic support are crumbling, and, as an aside, we are reverting to 2GW measures like body count and territory occupied.

In the last third of the book, Hammes raises issues that should trouble every US political and military leader. Perhaps most penetrating, given DoD's current focus, is the observation is that if information technology is the key to success in future combat, then we're probably going to lose. The reason is that dispersed, rapidly evolving networks can more quickly figure out how to exploit new information technologies than can large, bureaucratic, hierarchical structures such as the Pentagon. The escalating parade of viruses, Trojans, and other worms that assault our (non-Mac) computers daily attest to the truth of this argument.

The solution, in Hammes' view, is to become more of a network ourselves. He is brutally realistic about the problems this entails. For starters we would need to eliminate about 50% of the field grade and general officers on active duty (which agrees with most studies of implementations of lean manufacturing, for example, which suggest reducing management ranks by 25-40%.) Such thinking is a refreshing change from the gradualist school of transformation prevalent in DoD these days.

Many of his other recommendations will be familiar to those who have read Army Major Don Vandergriff's The Path to Victory, which Hammes credits as the basis for his own personnel proposals. Solve the people problems and our troops will figure out ways to employ suitable technologies.

By the way, watch for Hammes' sly perversion of the phrase "coalition of the willing," which reveals a biting wit generally thought rare in Marine colonels.

One might quibble with some of Hammes' assessments. He asserts, for example, that al-Qa'ida made a huge strategic error in the September 11 attacks. This may be true, but considering Hammes' concern with the protracted nature of 4GW, it is far too early to tell. And the book could have used more detail on how Hammes would improve our HUMINT—spying—capabilities. He rightly points out that HUMINT is key for a state power confronted by a 4GW opponent. On the other hand, HUMINT operators live in places where, as one put it, "bouts of diarrhea are measured in years," one slip up can permanently solve bowel problems, and headquarters, where promotions are handed out, is thousands of miles away.[2]

Finally, I was disappointed that Hammes failed to acknowledge his debt to John Boyd, one of the godfathers of 4GW. Boyd's ideas permeate the book: The OODA "loop," the idea of rapid re-orientation as key, reliance on implicit and intuitive decisions/actions, and most fundamental, recognition that grand strategy is decisive in 4GW and forms the Schwerpunkt.[3] The entire book is an affirmation of Boyd's injunction that success in war depends on "people, ideas, and hardware, in that order!"

April 20th, 2006, 01:17 PM

bitoy

April 21st, 2006, 12:49 AM

Also i forgot to add

Machines don't fight wars. People do, and they use their minds. - Col John R. Boyd

If in case we will be enaged in full total with another country which in first place would be stupid if we confront the enemy head on. We therefore transform our forces into much something like a 4gw force and if we do that the enemy will never win in our grounds and will eventually withdraw.. just look at iraq and vietnam.

Hmm, sounds easy for you to say, even the NPA's are not willing to strap-belt their body with bombs and only a few cases of Filipino Muslim extremists had done that.

The Vietnam Conflict was a total lost right away to America. You can read in other sites why it failed. As in the case of Iraq, it still in the work in process. Most insurgents are from other Islamic countries that influenced Iraqis to take up arms against the coalition.

Yes, (from your previous post on the other thread that was closed) I was in Iraq twice already during the start of the 2nd Gulf war and was in KSA during the Invasion of Kuwait by the Iraqis. And I've seen so many things that some of you can not stomach and accept. I'm just thankful that those atrocities had never happened in the Philippines.

April 21st, 2006, 03:36 AM

Hmm, sounds easy for you to say, even the NPA's are not willing to strap-belt their body with bombs and only a few cases of Filipino Muslim extremists had done that..

You don't have to strap bombs in order to be classify as a 4gw force. And NPA is not a 4gw force it is a typical guerilla rebel force while the abu sayaf might be classified as a 4gw.

On "fourth generation warfare" (4GW)

-the other side refuses to stand up and fight fair.

-where both states and non-states wage war. In 4GW, at least one side is something other than a military force organized and operating under the control of a national government, and one that often exploits the weakness of the state system in many parts of the world.

-One way to tell that 4GW is truly new is that we don't even have a name for its participants—typically dismissing them as "terrorists," "extremists," or "thugs."

-Name calling, though, is not often an effective substitute for strategy.

-The attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Center dispelled the notion that 4GW is simple "terrorism." But one can sympathize with our political and military leaders, because 4GW is a strange form of warfare, one where military force plays a smaller role than in earlier generations, supporting initiatives that are more political, diplomatic, and economic.

-As important as finding and destroying the actual combatants, for example, is drying up the bases of popular support that allow them to recruit for, plan, and execute their attacks.

-Being seen as too successful militarily may create a backlash, making the opponent's other elements of 4GW more effective.

"The authors of the first paper on the subject captured some of this strangeness when they predicted:

-The distinction between war and peace will be blurred to the vanishing point. It will be nonlinear, possibly to the point of having no definable battlefields or fronts. The distinction between 'civilian' and 'military' may disappear."

-fourth generation warfare is real war. The aim of its participants, as in all generations, is to impose change on its opponents.

-4GW played peripheral roles in earlier generations of warfare and undoubtedly predate history itself. Today, two of the most frequently mentioned of these techniques are terrorism, as we have seen, and guerrilla warfare / low intensity conflict (LIC.)

April 21st, 2006, 03:42 AM

Most insurgents are from other Islamic countries that influenced Iraqis to take up arms against the coalition.
.

If im a christian and my country is being invaded by demons and devils trying to impose their own ways of satanic rituals on my people i would rather be an insurgent and you can call me a terrorist too.

April 21st, 2006, 03:53 AM

Askal82

April 21st, 2006, 04:38 AM

Yeah iraq is like vietnam well it is a second vietnam. I think US should change strategy because there are lots of flaws in the system in which they operate.

The 'insurgents' have a decentralized structure. No one, not even other cells have any idea what their 'allies' are doing. They are rallied by a similar ideal, which keeps them united in purpose, even though they are not united in form. They are 'formless'.

The insurgency's knowledge of their enemy is better than the US's knowledge of them. In addition, they know themselves, as they are unified by a culture that the west finds difficult to understand. Beyond that, they know the Iraqi people. Even if the Iraqi's don't agree with the 'insurgents', the 'insurgents' can use their knowledge of the local area and customs to their advantage.

In short, the US needs to use less overt action, and make themselves 'formless'. It could start by pulling back combat units, while keeping a powerful intelligence network in place, along with a large body of covert operatives to act on the intelligence that they gain.

Overt combat units could then be tasked with 'reactionary' duty, taking advantage of their superior technology in both mobility and lethality to make surgical strikes with heavier equipment when needed. These strikes would have to be made from secret or mobile locations.

But the question is still who will police and protect oil and civilian population as iraq still has lots of gaps in police and military that cannot stand without US backing.

Well the US still needs to sacrifice more soldiers then right?? Because of a failed military strategy and leadership. No wonder why rumsfeld and his friends in the house needs to quit.

... and Philippines is US' first Vietnam actually. Remember what happened during the so-called war for independence? In US history books, its known as the Philippine insurrection giving them the appearance that its their destiny to tame 'uncivilized societies'.

bitoy

April 21st, 2006, 05:50 AM

Yeah iraq is like vietnam well it is a second vietnam. I think US should change strategy because there are lots of flaws in the system in which they operate.

The 'insurgents' have a decentralized structure. No one, not even other cells have any idea what their 'allies' are doing. They are rallied by a similar ideal, which keeps them united in purpose, even though they are not united in form. They are 'formless'.

The insurgency's knowledge of their enemy is better than the US's knowledge of them. In addition, they know themselves, as they are unified by a culture that the west finds difficult to understand. Beyond that, they know the Iraqi people. Even if the Iraqi's don't agree with the 'insurgents', the 'insurgents' can use their knowledge of the local area and customs to their advantage.

In short, the US needs to use less overt action, and make themselves 'formless'. It could start by pulling back combat units, while keeping a powerful intelligence network in place, along with a large body of covert operatives to act on the intelligence that they gain.

Overt combat units could then be tasked with 'reactionary' duty, taking advantage of their superior technology in both mobility and lethality to make surgical strikes with heavier equipment when needed. These strikes would have to be made from secret or mobile locations.

But the question is still who will police and protect oil and civilian population as iraq still has lots of gaps in police and military that cannot stand without US backing.

Well the US still needs to sacrifice more soldiers then right?? Because of a failed military strategy and leadership. No wonder why rumsfeld and his friends in the house needs to quit.

You can send your idea to Pentagon. :)

This is not how the US military works, although Rumsfeld was a former military himself, politics play a big part of every move that a soldier would have to make.
All eyes are focus on this big issue. The media always play a role now on any military movements or even decisions. Sure, America is doing some covert operations until now, but that would be for the higher up to decide and to be declassified.

As you said `US still needs to sacrifice more soldiers' , with that statement you are making an immature statement to the young men and women of the US military and it's coalition forces who are busting their butts to uphold democracy and freedom in fighting global terrorism.
I just hope this kind of terrorism doesn't reach your homeland.

April 21st, 2006, 07:22 AM

You can send your idea to Pentagon. :)

This is not how the US military works, although Rumsfeld was a former military himself, politics play a big part of every move that a soldier would have to make.
All eyes are focus on this big issue. The media always play a role now on any military movements or even decisions. Sure, America is doing some covert operations until now, but that would be for the higher up to decide and to be declassified.

As you said `US still needs to sacrifice more soldiers' , with that statement you are making an immature statement to the young men and women of the US military and it's coalition forces who are busting their butts to uphold democracy and freedom in fighting global terrorism.
I just hope this kind of terrorism doesn't reach your homeland.

Tsinoy that is the cold truth US citizens are being send to iraq to fight a war get blown up by IED's based on bad intelligence and failed strategy by their leaders.
I know it's hard to do when u critcize the leaders for making the mistakes at the same time honor the soldiers that sacrificed their lives. As i said again destroy terrorist and Al-qaeda you bet, but to install democracy and enforce your own way of life to another culture and people that have their own culture for thousands of years and tradition, religion and history is arrogant and wrong headed. You cannot install the western culture democracy in the middle east without first killing the arabs that you are supposed to help.

I also heard Hu jin Tao payed a visit to Dubya Bush and gave him a copy of the book The Art of War one in chinese and one in english and also gave similar copies to his peepz working with him in the office. I hope he makes a good use of this book. :D lol

Anyhow, regarding the current US administration they are incompetent, they just don't have a clue. The recent supreme court nominee issue, the whole Katrina disaster, the WMD, the Iraq War, their foreign policies, all of it just points to no one in the cabinet knowing what they're doing; it's rather like a group of highschool kids hotwired the US and are taking it for a joyride or a group of intelligent strategists with specific objecitives hotwired a group of highschool kids in charge of the US and are taking it for a joyride.

bitoy

April 21st, 2006, 07:48 AM

Tsinoy that is the cold truth US citizens are being send to iraq to fight a war get blown up by IED's based on bad intelligence and failed strategy by their leaders.
I know it's hard to do when u critcize the leaders for making the mistakes at the same time honor the soldiers that sacrificed their lives. As i said again destroy terrorist and Al-qaeda you bet, but to install democracy and enforce your own way of life to another culture and people that have their own culture for thousands of years and tradition, religion and history is arrogant and wrong headed. You cannot install the western culture democracy in the middle east without first killing the arabs that you are supposed to help.

The US military now is almost all volunteer forces. We know when we signed that dotted line that we have to do what we have to do and those objectors can do what they want if they choose not to be deployed. I know what you are trying to say. But most Iraqis clamor for more rights that they never had before. The future lies on their local leaders now who by ethnic diversities divided every groups and religious factions of Islam.

Iraq is not as bad as Afghanistan where most of its cities are still in rubbles. Iraq infrastructures are going up in a fast rate now with some determent from insurgent’s actions. The Iraqi Christians are now in a state that they never had before, that is why they are now doing a big step in showing other Iraqis how to live together.

The bottom-line of this scenario is that the Military of Saddam Hussein that raised havoc to its citizens for many years has been defeated. Everyone is hoping for a new and better Iraq.

And therefore I believed that we are doing the right thing in fighting those terrorists on their own turf rather than doing what ever they want anywhere and anytime just like before.

bitoy

April 21st, 2006, 07:58 AM

I also heard Hu jin Tao payed a visit to Dubya Bush and gave him a copy of the book The Art of War one in chinese and one in english and also gave similar copies to his peepz working with him in the office. I hope he makes a good use of this book. lol

From the book of the Art of War (which is a part of US Military Officer's Professional Reading Guide)

The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom,
sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

I think our commander in chief is still doing a good job serving its people.

And sadly -- Hu Jin Tao is not a popular figure here when you ask the Chinese citizens from mainland. :D

April 21st, 2006, 07:58 AM

The US military now is almost all volunteer forces. We know when we signed that dotted line that we have to do what we have to do and those objectors can do what they want if they choose not to be deployed. I know what you are trying to say. But most Iraqis clamor for more rights that they never had before. The future lies on their local leaders now who by ethnic diversities divided every groups and religious factions of Islam.

Iraq is not as bad as Afghanistan where most of its cities are still in rubbles. Iraq infrastructures are going up in a fast rate now with some determent from insurgent’s actions. The Iraqi Christians are now in a state that they never had before, that is why they are now doing a big step in showing other Iraqis how to live together.

The bottom-line of this scenario is that the Military of Saddam Hussein that raised havoc to its citizens for many years has been defeated. Everyone is hoping for a new and better Iraq.

And therefore I believed that we are doing the right thing in fighting those terrorists on their own turf rather than doing what ever they want anywhere and anytime just like before.

I have to admit saddam is an evil tyrant he is a dictator but under him iraq was more safe and stable than today. And now iraq is in a state of civil war and in a state of total 4GW which is the most terrifying type of warfare.
Their main goal was to eliminate saddam and the weapons of mass destruction and now that was done there was no WMD and now they have a new goal to install democracy???

April 21st, 2006, 08:00 AM

From the book of the Art of War (which is a part of US Military Officer's Professional Reading Guide)

The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom,
sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

I think our commander in chief is still doing a good job serving its people.

And sadly -- Hu Jin Tao is not a popular figure here when you ask the Chinese citizens from mainland. :D

Do u think george bush used the art of war strategy in iraq?? As i can see he broke the all the rules how to engage in warfare. Im sure Sun Tzu will not look favourably on his decisions if he was alive.

bitoy

April 21st, 2006, 08:10 AM

Anyhow, regarding the current US administration they are incompetent, they just don't have a clue. The recent supreme court nominee issue, the whole Katrina disaster, the WMD, the Iraq War, their foreign policies, all of it just points to no one in the cabinet knowing what they're doing; it's rather like a group of highschool kids hotwired the US and are taking it for a joyride or a group of intelligent strategists with specific objecitives hotwired a group of highschool kids in charge of the US and are taking it for a joyride.

That is really an insult, but coming from you from the other side of the globe I just have to laugh it off. Sometimes you need to look in front of the mirror first. :)

bitoy

April 21st, 2006, 08:12 AM

I have to admit saddam is an evil tyrant he is a dictator but under him iraq was more safe and stable than today. And now iraq is in a state of civil war and in a state of total 4GW which is the most terrifying type of warfare.
Their main goal was to eliminate saddam and the weapons of mass destruction and now that was done there was no WMD and now they have a new goal to install democracy???

Saddam is the WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION to its people.

April 21st, 2006, 08:16 AM

That is really an insult, but coming from you from the other side of the globe I just have to laugh it off. Sometimes you need to look in front of the mirror first. :)

Isn't that the truth?? the cold truth?? and to know that china and north korea, Iran and enemies of the US is watching all of this mistakes that reveal the weakness of the US and all of that thanks to dubya and his friends.

bitoy

April 21st, 2006, 08:16 AM

Do u think george bush used the art of war strategy in iraq?? As i can see he broke the all the rules how to engage in warfare. Im sure Sun Tzu will not look favourably on his decisions if he was alive.

What you see on the news is not really what's all happening in Iraq. There are some cases of atrocities commited by the US and coalition forces also and some are not known to anyone. But as much as possible, the coalition are doing its best to play by the rule.
If GW will break the rule of engagement and be followed by the US military then there won't be anymore IRAQ or Afghanistan.

bitoy

April 21st, 2006, 08:19 AM

Isn't that the truth?? the cold truth?? and to know that china and north korea, Iran and enemies of the US is watching all of this mistakes that reveal the weakness of the US and all of that thanks to dubya and his friends.

If you hate the US Foreign Policies, the best way to avoid it is to come to America and enjoy the freedom that we all have here.

April 21st, 2006, 08:23 AM

Saddam is the WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION to its people.

But that is not main reason why you invaed iraq, yep saddam killed many people but the war on iraq will also just as many. 3 years have passed and there are 30,000+ civilian dead or even higher and not to count those who died due to stravation lack of water becoz of the war destroyed infrastructures. Also over 2,000 dead US troops and counting. Suicide bombings everwhere you go and IEDS everywhere on roads.. snipers lurking to shot you. Bombs planted in churches and blown up, bombs everywhere you freakin go and blowing up.

April 21st, 2006, 08:29 AM

What you see on the news is not really what's all happening in Iraq. There are some cases of atrocities commited by the US and coalition forces also and some are not known to anyone. But as much as possible, the coalition are doing its best to play by the rule.
If GW will break the rule of engagement and be followed by the US military then there won't be anymore IRAQ or Afghanistan.

"Know your enemy" says sun tzu ... your a fighting 4gw war and right now you do not who is the enemy but the enemy knows you.

"No nation has ever benifited in a protracted warfare"

"Move not unless you see an advantage fight not if the situation is not crictical"

and the list goes on and on.... i can post it all if you want to. :)

April 21st, 2006, 08:32 AM

I all i can say about iraq is that it is a foolish war that will kill more people than it is supposed to help.

April 21st, 2006, 08:35 AM

Costly Withdrawal Is the Price To Be Paid for a Foolish War
By Martin van Creveld
November 25, 2005

The number of American casualties in Iraq is now well more than 2,000, and there is no end in sight. Some two-thirds of Americans, according to the polls, believe the war to have been a mistake. And congressional elections are just around the corner.

What had to come, has come. The question is no longer if American forces will be withdrawn, but how soon — and at what cost. In this respect, as in so many others, the obvious parallel to Iraq is Vietnam.

Confronted by a demoralized army on the battlefield and by growing opposition at home, in 1969 the Nixon administration started withdrawing most of its troops in order to facilitate what it called the "Vietnamization" of the country. The rest of America's forces were pulled out after Secretary of State Henry Kissinger negotiated a "peace settlement" with Hanoi. As the troops withdrew, they left most of their equipment to the Army of the Republic of South Vietnam — which just two years later, after the fall of Saigon, lost all of it to the communists.

Clearly this is not a pleasant model to follow, but no other alternative appears in sight.

Whereas North Vietnam at least had a government with which it was possible to arrange a cease-fire, in Iraq the opponent consists of shadowy groups of terrorists with no central organization or command authority. And whereas in the early 1970s equipment was still relatively plentiful, today's armed forces are the products of a technology-driven revolution in military affairs. Whether that revolution has contributed to anything besides America's national debt is open to debate. What is beyond question, though, is that the new weapons are so few and so expensive that even the world's largest and richest power can afford only to field a relative handful of them.

Therefore, simply abandoning equipment or handing it over to the Iraqis, as was done in Vietnam, is simply not an option. And even if it were, the new Iraqi army is by all accounts much weaker, less skilled, less cohesive and less loyal to its government than even the South Vietnamese army was. For all intents and purposes, Washington might just as well hand over its weapons directly to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Clearly, then, the thing to do is to forget about face-saving and conduct a classic withdrawal.

Handing over their bases or demolishing them if necessary, American forces will have to fall back on Baghdad. From Baghdad they will have to make their way to the southern port city of Basra, and from there back to Kuwait, where the whole misguided adventure began. When Prime Minister Ehud Barak pulled Israel out of Lebanon in 2000, the military was able to carry out the operation in a single night without incurring any casualties. That, however, is not how things will happen in Iraq.

Not only are American forces perhaps 30 times larger, but so is the country they have to traverse. A withdrawal probably will require several months and incur a sizable number of casualties. As the pullout proceeds, Iraq almost certainly will sink into an all-out civil war from which it will take the country a long time to emerge — if, indeed, it can do so at all. All this is inevitable and will take place whether George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Condoleezza Rice like it or not.

Having been thoroughly devastated by two wars with the United States and a decade of economic sanctions, decades will pass before Iraq can endanger its neighbors again. Yet a complete American withdrawal is not an option; the region, with its vast oil reserves, is simply too important for that. A continued military presence, made up of air, sea and a moderate number of ground forces, will be needed.

First and foremost, such a presence will be needed to counter Iran, which for two decades now has seen the United States as "the Great Satan." Tehran is certain to emerge as the biggest winner from the war — a winner that in the not too distant future is likely to add nuclear warheads to the missiles it already has. In the past, Tehran has often threatened the Gulf States. Now that Iraq is gone, it is hard to see how anybody except the United States can keep the Gulf States, and their oil, out of the mullahs' clutches.

A continued American military presence will be needed also, because a divided, chaotic, government-less Iraq is very likely to become a hornets' nest. From it, a hundred mini-Zarqawis will spread all over the Middle East, conducting acts of sabotage and seeking to overthrow governments in Allah's name.

The Gulf States apart, the most vulnerable country is Jordan, as evidenced by the recent attacks in Amman. However, Turkey, Egypt and, to a lesser extent, Israel are also likely to feel the impact. Some of these countries, Jordan in particular, are going to require American assistance.

Maintaining an American security presence in the region, not to mention withdrawing forces from Iraq, will involve many complicated problems, military as well as political. Such an endeavor, one would hope, will be handled by a team different from — and more competent than — the one presently in charge of the White House and Pentagon.

For misleading the American people, and launching the most foolish war since Emperor Augustus in 9 B.C sent his legions into Germany and lost them, Bush deserves to be impeached and, once he has been removed from office, put on trial along with the rest of the president's men. If convicted, they'll have plenty of time to mull over their sins.

Martin van Creveld, a professor of military history at the Hebrew University, is author of "Transformation of War" (Free Press, 1991). He is the only non-American author on the U.S. Army's required reading list for officers.