Cebuano adjectives (and also nouns) are linked to the word they modify by the unifying linker nga. However if nga follows a word ending in a vowel or glottal stop or the letter N, then it becomes suffixed to that word as -ng. The adjective often come before the word it modifies but it can also come after it.

Examples:

maayong buntag = a good morning (from adjective maayo)
dakong panon = a large crowd (from adjective dako)

A noun however always comes after the word it modifies.

Examples:

balay nga bato = stone house
hangin nga habagat = southeast monsoon

is "man" same with "naman"?

like for example...dili man ko...


yes!

when you say "dili man ko" in english it translate "I am not" whereas if you say "dili naman ko" I believe the sentence structure is technically incorrect coz ideally it should be "dili na man ko" which still means "I am not"...

perhaps its because of text messages that's why usually it confuses non-cebuanos and cebuanos as well of the true cebuano sentence structures..


Got a lesson from the website (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Cebuano_language?t=4.). Hope this one helps.

Cebuano has enclitic particles that have important information conveying difference nuances in meaning.
Below is a list of some enclitic particles.


na and pa

na: now, already, yet
pa: still, else, in addition, yet


man: particle used for disregarding reasons or results; even, even if, although
pud, sad: too, also
lamang (lang): limiting particle; only or just
daw, kuno: a reporting particle that expresses that the information in the sentence is second-hand; they say, he said, reportedly, supposedly, etc.
gyud,(gayud) : politeness particle. Expresses certainty of the statement.
ba: used in yes-and-no questions and optionally in other types of questions
sa: for now, for a minute and yet (in negative sentences).
kaha: expresses wonder; I wonder; perhaps (we should do something) (also optionally used in yes-and-no questions and other forms of questions)
kay: expresses cause; because
diay: expresses that the speaker has realized or suddenly remembered something; realization particle
tingali: expresses uncertainty; probably, perhaps, seems
unta: expresses hope, unrealized condition (with verb in incepting aspect), used in conditional sentences.

CEBUANO VERSIONS

Sa Ngalan Sa Amahan, Ug Sa Anak, Ug Sa Espiritu Santo. Amen


Nagatu-o Ako

Nagatu-o Ako
Sa Diyos Na Amahan
Makagagahom Sa Tanan
Magbubuhat Sa Langit Ug Sa Yuta
Ug Kang Hesukristo
Na Iyang Anak Na Bugtong
Gipanamkon Sa Nilalang Sa Espiritu Santo
Gianak Ni Maria Na Berhen
Gisakit Ubos Sa Sugo Ni Puncho Pilato
Gilangsang Sa Krus
Namatay Ug Gilubong
Mikunsad Sa Mga Minatay
Sa Ikatulo Ka Adlaw Nabanhaw
Misaka Sa Langit
Ug Nagalinkod Sa Tu-o Sa Amahan
Makagagahom Sa Tanan
Gikan Didto Mubalik Siya
Aron Paghukom Sa Mga
Buhi Ug Sa Minatay.

Nagatu-o Ako Sa Espiritu Santo
Sa Santa Iglesia Katolika
Sa Kaambitan Sa Mga Santos
Sa Kapasaylo-an Sa Mga Sala
Sa Pagkabanhaw Sa Lawas
Ug Sa Kinhabuhing Wala'y Katapusan. Amen


Amahan Namo

Amahan Namo
Na Anaa Sa Mga Langit
Pagdaygon Ang Imong Ngalan
Umabot Kanamo Ang Imong Gingharian
Matuman Ang Imong Pagbuot
Dinhi Sa Yuta maingon Sa Langit.

Ang Kalan-on Namo Sa Matag Adlaw
Ihatag Kanamo Karong Adlawa
Ug Pasaylo-a Kami Sa Among Mga Sala
Maingon Nga Nagapasaylo Kami
Sa Mga Nakasala Kanamo
Ug Dili Mo Kami Itugyan Sa Panulay
Hinuno-a, Luwas-a Kami Sa Dautan. Amen


Maghimaya Ka Maria

Maghimaya Ka Maria
Napuno Ka Sa Grasya
Ang Ginoo Maana-a Kanimo
Bulahan Ka Sa Mga Babaye Nga Tanan
Ug Bulahan Usab Ang Bunga
Sa Tiyan Mo Na Si Hesus.

Santa Maria
Inahan Sa Diyos
Igampo Mo Kaming Makasasala
Karon Ug Sa Oras Sa Among Kamatayon. Amen


Himaya Sa Amahan

Himaya Sa Amahan
Ug Sa Anak
Ug Sa Espiritu Santo

Maingon Sa Sinugdan
Karon Ug Sa Gihapon
Ug Sa Katuigang Wala'y Katapusan. Amen


ENGLISH VERSIONS

In The Name Of The Father, And Of The Son, And Of The Holy Spirit

Apostle's Creed

I Believe In God
The Father Almighty
Creator Of Heaven And Earth
I Believe In Jesus Christ
His Only Son Our Lord
He Was Conceived By The Power Of The Holy Spirit
And Born Of The Virgin Mary
He suffered Under Pontius Pilate
He Was Crucified, Died, And Was Buried
He Descended Into The Dead
On The Third Day He Rose Again
He Ascended Into Heaven
And Seated At The Right Hand Of The Father
He Will Come To Judge
The Living And The Dead.

I Believe In The Holy Spirit
The Holy Catholic Church
The Communion Of Saints
The Forgiveness Of Sins
The Resurrection Of The Body
And Life Everlasting. Amen


Our Father

Our Father
Who Art In Heaven
Holy Be Your Name
Your Kingdom Come
Your Will be Done
On Earth As It is In Heaven.

Give Us This day, Our Daily Bread
And Forgive Us Our Sins
As We Forgive Those Who Sin Against Us
Lead Us Not Into Temptation
But Deliver Us From Evil. Amen


Hail Mary

Hail Mary
Full Of Grace
The Lord Is With You
Blessed Are You Amongst Women
And Blessed Is The Fruit
Of Thy Womb Jesus.

Holy Mary
Mother Of God
Pray For Us Sinners
Now And At The Hour
Of Our Death. Amen


Glory Be

Glory Be To The Father
And To The Son
And Of The Holy Spirit.

As It Was In The Beginning
Is Now And Ever Shall Be
World Without End. Amen

where does the expression noh which we sometimes use to end sentences come from and what is it's purpose and translation in english?

where does the expression noh which we sometimes use to end sentences come from and what is it's purpose and translation in english?

My theory:

The word "no" indicates a tag question. Probably derived from the Spanish sentence structure. The Spanish language includes the tag questions as shown below:

María habla español, ¿no? - Maria speaks Spanish, doesn't she?

And now in Cebuano:

Imong gibasa ang FHM Magazine, no? - You read the FHM Magazine, aren't you?

In Cebu City (and probably Cebu Province) there is a dialectal variation on tag questions. The word "no" is substituted to "sa".

Example:

Imong gibasa ang FHM Magazine, sa? - You read the FHM Magazine, aren't you?

^^ wala'y sapayan pud! :okay:

lahi lagi diri sa Davao.. amoa kay "wa'y problema or wala'y problema."

believe me or not, kadaghanan diri sa amo, wa kabalo unsa nang "sapayan".:)

same here.
sapayan is an old Cebuano word or it is a proper/formal word for you're welcome.

way problema is commonly used for the young generation.

way sampayan man dri sa amo lagi.

My theory:

The word "no" indicates a tag question. Probably derived from the Spanish sentence structure. The Spanish language includes the tag questions as shown below:

María habla español, ¿no? - Maria speaks Spanish, doesn't she?

And now in Cebuano:

Imong gibasa ang FHM Magazine, no? - You read the FHM Magazine, aren't you?

In Cebu City (and probably Cebu Province) there is a dialectal variation on tag questions. The word "no" is substituted to "sa".

Example:

Imong gibasa ang FHM Magazine, sa? - You read the FHM Magazine, aren't you?

wow! great analysis bai! now i know...:okay:

lahi lagi diri sa Davao.. amoa kay "wa'y problema or wala'y problema."

believe me or not, kadaghanan diri sa amo, wa kabalo unsa nang "sapayan".:)

same here.
sapayan is an old Cebuano word or it is a proper/formal word for you're welcome.

way problema is commonly used for the young generation.

right! but this doesn't mean they are different. in our country, they say "bisaya" is different from cebuano but for us that "bisaya" is still cebuano so that the old cebuano words you now seldom hear in cebuano-speaking cities and metros in cebu and parts of mindanao are now replace with a more simpler forms of cebuano language.

wow! great analysis bai! now i know...:okay:


Thanks!




right! but this doesn't mean they are different. in our country, they say "bisaya" is different from cebuano but for us that "bisaya" is still cebuano so that the old cebuano words you now seldom hear in cebuano-speaking cities and metros in cebu and parts of mindanao are now replace with a more simpler forms of cebuano language.

By the way, the word "sapayan" means to consider, to mind.

Davao Cebuano has rather significant dialectal variataion. One example is the word fever. In Cebu, Bohol, Leyte, and Northern Mindanao, they say hilanat; in Davao they rather say kalentura (from Spanish word calentura, which it has the same meaning).

Thanks!






By the way, the word "sapayan" means to consider, to mind.

Davao Cebuano has rather significant dialectal variataion. One example is the word fever. In Cebu, Bohol, Leyte, and Northern Mindanao, they say hilanat; in Davao they rather say kalentura (from Spanish word calentura, which it has the same meaning).

oh i see. good to know that too...:okay:

man: particle used for disregarding reasons or results; even, even if, although


The definition doesn't seem to apply to this sentence:

"Wala man ko tawga."

If we force it meaning to even, the it would be:

"I wasn't even called." Edit: Hmm.. dili man diay ingon nga even lang ang word equivalent, kahinganlan nga mu-disregard sa reasons so,

"Even if I wasn't called." - samot man hinuon ni'g kasayup nga translation.

Which is not a proper translation.

It may be more accurate to define man as a particle to call attention to a given state. Essentially emphasizing it's importance to the speaker. Objectively, there is little chance if we went with:

"Wala ko tawga."

The difference really is that having 'man' around conveyed the speaker's concern about not being called. Lack of 'man' essentially denotes a speaker who couldn't care less about not being called, he/she is just objectively noting the fact.

Another example:

"Inuniniun ni og buhat." - This is how you do this.
"Inuniniun man ni og buhat." - This is how you do this. (You should not have done it the way you did.)

First sentence is just a person telling another person how to do something. Addition of man in the other sentence could only be taken on the context that the speaker is correcting the listener on how to do something, hence gi-emphasize gud niya kung unsaon gayud og buhat.

Anyway, that's my take with 'man'. I'd really like to see sample sentences justifying it to mean even, even if, and although.

"Inuniniun ni og buhat." - This is how you do this.
"Inuniniun man ni og buhat." - This is how you do this. (You should not have done it the way you did.)

i think I am not familiar with the word "Inuniniun" coz I'm more familiar with "Inani-on" or "Inanini-on"

"Inuniniun ni og buhat." - This is how you do this.
"Inuniniun man ni og buhat." - This is how you do this. (You should not have done it the way you did.)

i think I am not familiar with the word "Inuniniun" coz I'm more familiar with "Inani-on" or "Inanini-on"

Inani-on comes from the word "ingon ani-on", which means "same as this way".


@WindShear,

Bilib ko sa imong mga analysis bai... :)

Inani-on comes from the word "ingon ani-on", which means "same as this way".


so, what's the difference between "Inuniniun" and "Inanini-on"? so you mean the former is different from the latter?

so, what's the difference between "Inuniniun" and "Inanini-on"? so you mean the former is different from the latter?

No difference actually...But personally, i am more familiar with "in-anini-on" than "inuniniun".

^^

hehehe...right! :okay:

@Hajanlet

I just copied and pasted from another website (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Cebuano_language?t=4.). I am about to post the comment regarding the enclitic particle man, but I have to wait someone else to critic or analyze by experts.

Anyway, thanks for your take. :)

The definition doesn't seem to apply to this sentence:

"Wala man ko tawga."

If we force it meaning to even, the it would be:

"I wasn't even called." Edit: Hmm.. dili man diay ingon nga even lang ang word equivalent, kahinganlan nga mu-disregard sa reasons so,

"Even if I wasn't called." - samot man hinuon ni'g kasayup nga translation.

Which is not a proper translation.

It may be more accurate to define man as a particle to call attention to a given state. Essentially emphasizing it's importance to the speaker. Objectively, there is little chance if we went with:

"Wala ko tawga."

The difference really is that having 'man' around conveyed the speaker's concern about not being called. Lack of 'man' essentially denotes a speaker who couldn't care less about not being called, he/she is just objectively noting the fact.

Another example:

"Inuniniun ni og buhat." - This is how you do this.
"Inuniniun man ni og buhat." - This is how you do this. (You should not have done it the way you did.)

First sentence is just a person telling another person how to do something. Addition of man in the other sentence could only be taken on the context that the speaker is correcting the listener on how to do something, hence gi-emphasize gud niya kung unsaon gayud og buhat.

Anyway, that's my take with 'man'. I'd really like to see sample sentences justifying it to mean even, even if, and although.

No difference actually...But personally, i am more familiar with "in-anini-on" than "inuniniun".

it sounds similar as inun-unan :lol::lol::lol:

it sounds similar as inun-unan :lol::lol::lol:

:lol::lol::lol:

Application-wise, it is more a matter of preference. Structurally, the difference is the same with using kini and kana. Inun-ana is for something far from the speaker. Inun-ini is for something close to the speaker. For my example, the speaker was holding what he was demonstrating. Like say, showing someone how to use a soldering iron. The use is rather subtle in a number of cases, mahimo ra gud nga magkailis-ilis. What's close or not close is depended on whether the receiver is close or not close.

As for inun-ani, dili kaayo ko mugamit ana. Inun-ini ug inun-ana ra gud sa ako. Naa man gud symmetry. Basin namishear lang gud nako ang ubang words as I was learning them. Parehas ra na nga 'ngindot' para sa ako ang 'nindot'. One of the many reasons nga ganahan gud unta ko og proper Cebuano in schools.

BTW, gamit gud ang hyphen, gikutihan gud ko og type sa inunini.

@Wind Shear:
Honestly, naglibog na ko anang 'man'. The reason why I ended up defining it as something that is just for emphasis is that it appears in too many sentences where most definitions would not hold in all cases.

^^if you don't mind, I would like know the equivalent meaning/use of "ug", "ra", and "og" in tagalog?:) thanks in advance;)

^^if you don't mind, I would like know the equivalent meaning/use of "ug", "ra", and "og" in tagalog?:) thanks in advance;)

Here it is.

"ug" in Tagalog is "at".

Cebuano: Ang kabayo ug ang kabaw.
Tagalog : Ang kabayo at ang kalabaw.

"ra" in Tagalog is "lang".

Cebuano: Gamay ra man diay na.
Tagalog: Maliit lang naman pala yan.

"og" in Tagalog is "nang".

Cebuano: Pagpalit og Coks litro.
Tagalog: Bumili ka nang Coke litro.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cebuano: Pagkuha og baso ug plato.
Tagalog : Kumuha ka nang baso at plato.

^^amazing:okay: and thanks for the examples...much appreciated:okay:

Basin namishear lang gud nako ang ubang words as I was learning them. Parehas ra na nga 'ngindot' para sa ako ang 'nindot'. One of the many reasons nga ganahan gud unta ko og proper Cebuano in schools.




gaan na meaning sa ako:)

am I right?

gaan na meaning sa ako:)

am I right?

umh, what do you mean?

According to Binisaya.com dictionary, nindot means beautiful, nice, dainty.

And now for the dialectal variations and its usage. :D

In Cebu and partly in Bohol, Leyte and Northen Mindanao, the word nindot applies to places, things, and events. The word gwapo/gwapa (from the Spanish word guapo/guapa) applies to a person and probably, animals.

In Davao, they rather say gwapo/gwapa, regardless of kinds of nouns.

In Cagayan de Oro and probably Misamis Oriental and Dumaguete City, they describe as tsada in place of nindot (which actually mean nice-looking).

That's why there's an inside joke (as a compliment to a person or otherwise) that when a person says "Gwapo lagi ni ang cellphone!" (implies that the mobile phone has a "masculine look"), someone will retort "Dili uy! Ikaw maoy gwapo!"

^^

there is also the katahom and kaanyag.

katahom is more on the natural beauty of a place while kaanyag pertains to physical beauty of a person.

well according to my friends too, there are also some variations in cebuano of cebu and cebuano in bohol, one is the usage of lami-a. in cebu we only use lami-a to describe delicious foods but in bohol, lami-a daw may also describe nice and cool things.

example:

english: this looks cool!
cebuano: nindota tanawon ani uy!
bol-anon: lami-a tanawon ani uy!

New Books at Cebuano Studies Center

http://www.usc.edu.ph/news_and_announcements/images/image206.jpg

The Cebuano Studies Center has just launched three new titles: A Dictionary of Bisayan Arts, Kulokabildo, and Sugilanong Sugboanon.

The Dictionary, compiled by CSC director Erlinda Alburo, collects indigenous terms in three Bisayan languages – Cebuano, Hiligaynon and Waray – in several sections: Art Criticism, Architecture and Boat-building, Ceramics, Crafts and Materials, Entertainment Arts (with Ritual), Language Arts (Communication and Literature) and Visual Arts. Produced with a research grant from the Toyota Foundation of Japan and published through a grant from the National Commission for Culture and the Arts, it is an expanded version of the Dictionary of Cebuano Arts published in 2006.

Kulokabildo: Conversations with Cebuano Writers is edited by Literature professor Hope Yu and is a sequel to the first volume of interviews, Kapulongan, that came out in 2008. Like the first volume, the book is accompanied by a CD with excerpts from the interviews.

Sugilanong Sugboanon: Cebuano Fiction until 1940 carries 11 short stories and two excerpts from novels, edited and translated into English by Erlinda Alburo, Simeon Dumdum Jr., Vicente Bandillo Jr., and Resil Mojares, with help from Ester Tapia and the late Lina Espina-Moore. Resil Mojares wrote the critical introduction. The book was produced with funding from the Toyota Foundation of Japan, and published by the Ateneo de Manila University Press. A second volume of Cebuano fiction until 1998 will come out this year, also by the Ateneo press.

http://www.usc.edu.ph/news_and_announcements/?news=289

The Visayan people live and dominated the area of central Phillipines down to the south of Mindanao as well as the states of Borneo. We are a seafaring people, a warrior-raiders, and traders. The term Visaya or Bisaya, as some historians would claimed that it is from the merchant empire of Sri Vijaya. It was a Malay empire that dominated and controlled the straits between India and the South China sea. Once the empire collapsed, the Visayan people started to find their new homes. It is evident from the spread of the language(see pic).

As for the Borneain Bisaya, this is what I found from wikipedia "The Bisaya are an indigenous people of northwestern Borneo, Malaysia, concentrated around the Limbang river in northern Sarawak state. There are other related tribes called Kadazan-Dusun in Sabah and in Brunei. They are distantly related to the Visayan of the Philippines, though a comparison with Cebuano Bisaya vocabulary shows that the language bears few similarities, most of which are more related to Bahasa Malaysia than Philippine Bisaya. Such similarities may be due to the standardizing effect and influence Bahasa Melayu had over not just the Bornean Bisaya but also all other ethnic languages spoken in Malaysia"

Sri Vijaya or Sriwijaya was an ancient Malay kingdom on the island of Sumatra, Southeast Asia which influenced much of the Malay Archipelago. The earliest solid proof of its existence dates from the 7th century; a Chinese monk, I-Tsing, wrote that he visited Sri Vijaya in 671 for 6 months. The first inscription in which the name Sri Vijaya appears also dates from the 7th century, namely the Kedukan Bukit Inscription around Palembang in Sumatra, dated 683. The kingdom ceased to exist between 1200 and 1300 due to various factors, including the expansion of Majapahit. In Sanskrit, sri means "shining" or "radiant" and vijaya means "victory" or "excellence".

After Sri Vijaya fell, it was largely forgotten and so historians had never considered that a large united kingdom could have been present in Southeast Asia. The existence of Sri Vijaya was only formally suspected in 1918 when French historian George Coedès of the École française d'Extrême-Orient postulated the existence of the empire. Around 1992 and 1993, Pierre-Yves Manguin proved that the centre of Sri Vijaya was along the Musi River between Bukit Seguntang and Sabokingking (situated in what is now the province of South Sumatra, Indonesia).

There is no continuous knowledge of Sri Vijaya in Indonesian histories; its forgotten past has been recreated by foreign scholars. No modern Indonesians, not even those of the Palembang area around which the kingdom was based, had heard of Sri Vijaya until the 1920s, when French scholar George Coedès published his discoveries and interpretations in Dutch and Indonesian-language newspapers. Coedès noted that the Chinese references to "Sanfoqi", previously read as "Sribhoja", and the inscriptions in Old Malay refer to the same empire.

Sri Vijaya became a symbol of early Sumatran greatness, and a great empire to balance Java's Majapahit in the east. In the twentieth century, both empires were referred to by nationalist intellectuals to argue for an Indonesian identity within and Indonesian state prior to the Dutch colonial state.

Sri Vijaya and by extension Sumatra had been known by different names to different peoples. The Chinese called it Sanfotsi or San Fo Qi, and at one time there was an even older kingdom of Kantoli that could be considered as the predecessor of Sri Vijaya. In Sanskrit and Pali, it was referred to as Yavadesh and Javadeh respectively. The Arabs called it Zabag and the Khmer called it Melayu. This is another reason why the discovery of Sri Vijaya was so difficult. While some of these names are strongly reminiscent of the name of Java, there is a distinct possibility that they may have referred to Sumatra instead.

Little physical evidence of Sri Vijaya remains. According to the Kedukan Bukit Inscription, dated 605 Saka (683 AD), the empire of Sri Vijaya was founded by Dapunta Hyang Çri Yacanaca (Dapunta Hyang Sri Jayanasa). He led 20,000 troops (mainly land troopers and a few hundred ships) from Minanga Tamwan (speculated Minangkabau) to Jambi and Palembang.

The empire was a coastal trading centre and was a thalassocracy. As such, it did not extend its influence far beyond the coastal areas of the islands of Southeast Asia, with the exception of contributing to the population of Madagascar 3,300 miles to the west. Around the year 500, Sri Vijayan roots began to develop around present-day Palembang, Sumatra, in modern Indonesia. The empire was organised in three main zones—the estuarine capital region centred on Palembang, the Musi River basin which served as hinterland, and rival estuarine areas capable of forming rival power centres. The areas upstream of the Musi river were rich in various commodities valuable to Chinese traders. The capital was administered directly by the ruler while the hinterland remained under its own local datus or chiefs, who were organized into a network of allegiance to the Sri Vijaya maharaja or king. Force was the dominant element in the empire's relations with rival river systems such as the Batang Hari, which centred in Jambi. The ruling lineage intermarried with the Sailendras of Central Java.

Candi Gumpung, a Buddhist temple at Muaro Jambi of Malayu Kingdom, later integrated as one of Sri Vijaya's important urban center.

Under the leadership of Jayanasa, the kingdom of Malayu became the first kingdom to be integrated into the Sri Vijayan Empire. This possibly occurred in the 680s. Malayu, also known as Jambi, was rich in gold and was held in high esteem. Sri Vijaya recognized that the submission of Malayu to them would increase their own prestige.

Chinese records dated in the late 7th century mention two Sumatran kingdoms as well as three other kingdoms on Java being part of Sri Vijaya. By the end of the 8th century, many Javanese kingdoms, such as Tarumanagara and Holing, were within the Sri Vijayan sphere of influence. It has also been recorded that a Buddhist family related to Sri Vijaya dominated central Java at that time. The family was probably the Sailendras. According to the Kota Kapur Inscription, the empire conquered Southern Sumatra as far as Lampung. The empire thus grew to control the trade on the Strait of Malacca, the South China Sea, the Java Sea, and Karimata Strait.

During the same century, Langkasuka on the Malay Peninsula became part of Sri Vijaya. Soon after this, Pan Pan and Trambralinga, which were located north of Langkasuka, came under Sri Vijayan influence. These kingdoms on the peninsula were major trading nations that transported goods across the peninsula's isthmus.

With the expansion to Java as well as the Malay Peninsula, Sri Vijaya controlled two major trade choke points in Southeast Asia. Some Sri Vijayan temple ruins are observable in Thailand and Cambodia.

Ruins of the Wat Kaew in Chaiya, dating from Sri Vijayan times

The area of Chaiya Surat Thani Thailand was already inhabited in prehistoric times by Semang and Malayan tribes. Founded in the 3rd century, until the 13th century the Sri Vijaya kingdom dominated the Malay Peninsula and much of the island of Java from there. The city Chaiya the name might be derived from its original Malay name "Cahaya" (means 'light', 'gleam', or 'glow'). However some scholars identify Chai-ya came from Sri-vi-ja-ya. It was a regional capital in the Sri Vijaya kingdom of the 5th to 13th century .Some Thai historians even claim that it was the capital of the kingdom itself for some time, but this is generally disputed. Wiang Sa and Phunphin were another main settlement of that time.

At some point in the 7th century, Cham ports in eastern Indochina started to attract traders. This diverted the flow of trade from Sri Vijaya. In an effort to divert the flow, the Sri Vijayan king or maharaja, Dharmasetu, launched various raids against the coastal cities of Indochina. The city of Indrapura by the Mekong River was temporarily controlled from Palembang in the early 8th century. The Sri Vijayans continued to dominate areas around present-day Cambodia until the Khmer King Jayavarman II, the founder of the Khmer Empire dynasty, severed the Sri Vijayan link later in the same century.

After Dharmasetu, Samaratungga became the next Maharaja of Sri Vijaya. He reigned as ruler from 792 to 835. Unlike the expansionist Dharmasetu, Samaratuga did not indulge in military expansion but preferred to strengthen the Sri Vijayan hold of Java. He personally oversaw the construction of Borobudur; the temple was completed in 825, during his reign.

By the twelfth century, the kingdom included parts of Sumatra, Ceylon, the Malay Peninsula, Western Java, Sulawesi, the Moluccas, Borneo and the Philippines, most notably the Sulu Archipelago and the Visayas islands (and indeed the latter island group, as well as its population, is named after the empire).

Sri Vijaya remained a formidable sea power until the thirteenth century.

MABUHI ANG MGA VISAYA!!!

Lets just ask our experts here how reliable this article is.

KINI ANG IMONG KINABUHI KANIADTO


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I am so fascinated with BAHASA (the official language of Indonesia and Malaysia) this is so because of the much similarities of words we have in Cebuano or Visayan. Such knowledge spurred me up to learn it. One night, I was enjoying Indonesian songs played on Youtube and while surfing the net, I made a research about the origin of my language I bumped on a site that posted a catholic prayer translated in different languages all over the world. Since I am Bisaya I looked for the Bisayan or Visayan translation to my surprise what was available was Bisaya (Sarawak) or Bisaya Malay. I thought it was an error, I couldn’t believe what I read in there. I could understand the whole thing; I could understand all of the words written. It is the same language I speak every day. This is the site http://www.marysrosaries.com/Bisaya_Sarawak_prayers.html. Only few filipinos actually knew this fact that is why I am sharing this to all of you. On the site, I noticed that it wasn’t mentioned in the heading that the language is also spoken in our country.
Cebuano/Visayan is not just spoken in our country it is also spoken in Brunei, Malaysia and Parts of Indonesia. This is something all Filipinos should know.
This is very interesting, because we could get into a certain part of the countries I have mentioned without much difficulty understanding

Interesting find.

I am so fascinated with BAHASA (the official language of Indonesia and Malaysia) this is so because of the much similarities of words we have in Cebuano or Visayan. Such knowledge spurred me up to learn it. One night, I was enjoying Indonesian songs played on Youtube and while surfing the net, I made a research about the origin of my language I bumped on a site that posted a catholic prayer translated in different languages all over the world. Since I am Bisaya I looked for the Bisayan or Visayan translation to my surprise what was available was Bisaya (Sarawak) or Bisaya Malay. I thought it was an error, I couldn’t believe what I read in there. I could understand the whole thing; I could understand all of the words written. It is the same language I speak every day. This is the site http://www.marysrosaries.com/Bisaya_Sarawak_prayers.html. Only few filipinos actually knew this fact that is why I am sharing this to all of you. On the site, I noticed that it wasn’t mentioned in the heading that the language is also spoken in our country.
Cebuano/Visayan is not just spoken in our country it is also spoken in Brunei, Malaysia and Parts of Indonesia. This is something all Filipinos should know.
This is very interesting, because we could get into a certain part of the countries I have mentioned without much difficulty understanding

Reminds me of that fabled "Ten Bornean Datus" myth that we have back home. This is one of the factors they are looking up to in the relation of the myth and the relationship and search for the Visayan identity.

^^

there is also the katahom and kaanyag.

katahom is more on the natural beauty of a place while kaanyag pertains to physical beauty of a person.

well according to my friends too, there are also some variations in cebuano of cebu and cebuano in bohol, one is the usage of lami-a. in cebu we only use lami-a to describe delicious foods but in bohol, lami-a daw may also describe nice and cool things.

example:

english: this looks cool!
cebuano: nindota tanawon ani uy!
bol-anon: lami-a tanawon ani uy!
I noticed similarities here....back in Hiligaynon katahum refers to anything that is beauty even the physical beauty of the person. Kaanyag has also been used though.

And the namit and nami usage has similarities with lami-a of Cebuano/Bojolano with the former pertaining to "delicious" food while the latter pertains to anything to describe nice or cool things.

I wonder how Waray would have similarities too.

later = niyan (leyte) / unina (eastern samar)



related to cebuano "unya na"

I am so fascinated with BAHASA (the official language of Indonesia and Malaysia) this is so because of the much similarities of words we have in Cebuano or Visayan. Such knowledge spurred me up to learn it. One night, I was enjoying Indonesian songs played on Youtube and while surfing the net, I made a research about the origin of my language I bumped on a site that posted a catholic prayer translated in different languages all over the world. Since I am Bisaya I looked for the Bisayan or Visayan translation to my surprise what was available was Bisaya (Sarawak) or Bisaya Malay. I thought it was an error, I couldn’t believe what I read in there. I could understand the whole thing; I could understand all of the words written. It is the same language I speak every day. This is the site http://www.marysrosaries.com/Bisaya_Sarawak_prayers.html. Only few filipinos actually knew this fact that is why I am sharing this to all of you. On the site, I noticed that it wasn’t mentioned in the heading that the language is also spoken in our country.
Cebuano/Visayan is not just spoken in our country it is also spoken in Brunei, Malaysia and Parts of Indonesia. This is something all Filipinos should know.
This is very interesting, because we could get into a certain part of the countries I have mentioned without much difficulty understanding

Fantastic find!!!! :banana:

I am so fascinated with BAHASA (the official language of Indonesia and Malaysia) this is so because of the much similarities of words we have in Cebuano or Visayan. Such knowledge spurred me up to learn it. One night, I was enjoying Indonesian songs played on Youtube and while surfing the net, I made a research about the origin of my language I bumped on a site that posted a catholic prayer translated in different languages all over the world. Since I am Bisaya I looked for the Bisayan or Visayan translation to my surprise what was available was Bisaya (Sarawak) or Bisaya Malay. I thought it was an error, I couldn’t believe what I read in there. I could understand the whole thing; I could understand all of the words written. It is the same language I speak every day. This is the site http://www.marysrosaries.com/Bisaya_Sarawak_prayers.html. Only few filipinos actually knew this fact that is why I am sharing this to all of you. On the site, I noticed that it wasn’t mentioned in the heading that the language is also spoken in our country.
Cebuano/Visayan is not just spoken in our country it is also spoken in Brunei, Malaysia and Parts of Indonesia. This is something all Filipinos should know.
This is very interesting, because we could get into a certain part of the countries I have mentioned without much difficulty understanding

Bisaya is very Malay/Asian indeed may it be Ilonggo, Cebuano or Waray! :okay:

I've posted the site you referred to:


Bisaya (Sarawak) Rosary Prayers
This language is also known as
Bisayah, Bisaya Bukit, Visayak, Bekiau, and Lorang Bukit.
This language is spoken by 7,000 people in the region southeast of Marudi, 5th Division in
Malaysia. It is also spoken in Brunei and Indonesia.


Amahan namu / Our Father / Pater Noster

Amahan namu nga itotat ca sa langit:
Ipapagdayet an imong ngalan:
Moanhi canamun an imong pagcahadi:
Tumanun an imong buot dinhi sa yuta,
maingun sa langit.
Ihatag mo damun an canun namun sa matagarlao:
Ug pauadun mo cami san mga-sala namu,
maingun ginuara namun,
san mga-nacasala damun:
Ngan diri imo tugotan cami maholog sa manga-panulai:
sa amun manga-caauai.
Apan bauiun mo cami sa manga-maraut ngatanan.

Transscription und Übersetzung:
Amahan namu / Our Father / Pater Noster

Amahan namu nga itotat ca sa langit:
Vater unser der bist du im Himmel

ipapagdayet angimong ngalan
gepriesen sei der dein Name,

mwanhi kanamun an imong
komme zu uns das dein

pagkahadi, tumanun ang imong
Reich, erfüllt werde der dein

huot dinhi sa yuta,
Wille hier auf Erde

maingun sa langit
wie in Himmel

ihatágmo damun an
gegeben werde dein uns die

kanun namun sa matagarlao ug
Nahrung unser an jeder Tag und

panadunmo kami san mga-sala
vergeben werde und die Menge Sünden

namu maingun ginuara namun,
unser wie vergeben weden von uns

san mganakasala damun
welche sündigen wider uns

ngan giri imo tugotan kami
und nicht von dir erlaubt werde wir

maholog sa manga-panulai
fallen in Versuchung

sa amun manga kaauai,
von unsere Menge Feinde

apan bauiun mokami sa
auch

mango marant ngatanan. Amin.

Maghimaya ka Malia / Hail Mary / Ave Maria
Maghimaya ka Malia (Maria) nga napono ka sa
galasiya (grasiya) ang aton Gino Diyosa adda saimo.
Dayago ka sa ku pa sa mangababai ngatanan
ug dayago man ang bunga sa tiyan mosi Hesus.
Santa Malia (Maria),
inahan ka sa Diyosa
magampo ka tango sa anomanga makasasala,
niyan ug sa igkamatai namo.
Amen.

I think, this is the perfect combination of Ilonggo, Cebuano and Waray.

Whew...We are truely descendants of one ancestor... :banana:

Viva Visayas United!!!

^^

i think we should now consider using "manga" instead of "mga".....

"mga" is just for the "other" language out there! :lol::lol:

^^

i think we should now consider using "manga" instead of "mga".....

"mga" is just for the "other" language out there! :lol::lol:

Actually it was spelled manga in Spanish orthography before Lope K. Santos changed it.

I am so fascinated with BAHASA (the official language of Indonesia and Malaysia) this is so because of the much similarities of words we have in Cebuano or Visayan. Such knowledge spurred me up to learn it. One night, I was enjoying Indonesian songs played on Youtube and while surfing the net, I made a research about the origin of my language I bumped on a site that posted a catholic prayer translated in different languages all over the world. Since I am Bisaya I looked for the Bisayan or Visayan translation to my surprise what was available was Bisaya (Sarawak) or Bisaya Malay. I thought it was an error, I couldn’t believe what I read in there. I could understand the whole thing; I could understand all of the words written. It is the same language I speak every day. This is the site http://www.marysrosaries.com/Bisaya_Sarawak_prayers.html. Only few filipinos actually knew this fact that is why I am sharing this to all of you. On the site, I noticed that it wasn’t mentioned in the heading that the language is also spoken in our country.
Cebuano/Visayan is not just spoken in our country it is also spoken in Brunei, Malaysia and Parts of Indonesia. This is something all Filipinos should know.
This is very interesting, because we could get into a certain part of the countries I have mentioned without much difficulty understanding

Holy kamote (sweet potato)! It is indeed similar!

Interesting find but we should not believe it immediately.
Let us first confirm that it is indeed true and not just one of those
things concocted in cyberspace kay kapila ray mugna mugna og sama
ana unya dili diay tinuod.

^^

i think we should now consider using "manga" instead of "mga".....

"mga" is just for the "other" language out there! :lol::lol:

Actually it was spelled manga in Spanish orthography before Lope K. Santos changed it.





Correction: mañga. :)

Interesting find but we should not believe it immediately.
Let us first confirm that it is indeed true and not just one of those
things concocted in cyberspace kay kapila ray mugna mugna og sama
ana unya dili diay tinuod.

http://www.voy.com/72940/

Visit that forum about Bisaya Sarawak. I can see some little similarities but a Filipino Bisaya speaker would still not fully understand most of the words that they are saying.

Interesting find but we should not believe it immediately.
Let us first confirm that it is indeed true and not just one of those
things concocted in cyberspace kay kapila ray mugna mugna og sama
ana unya dili diay tinuod.

Interesting find indeed. I would have to agree with you because there are so many things that comes out on the internet that you are not sure if it's from a very reliable sources or what. Things can be altered as well.

Correction: mañga. :)
How will you pronounce that now that it has "ñ" letter in it?

How will you pronounce that now that it has "ñ" letter in it?

Manga is pronounce like mango in Tagalog or the Japanese manga (¨http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga). Mañga is pronounce the same way we say it today. The ñ sound is used. Don´t you notice it? How about when you say kañya (to him or her) in Tagalog or when saying Espanya which is the same with España.

Ex. Mañga pagninilay-nilay nang tauong cristiano: at pagsisiyam sa casanto-santosang Nuestra Señora de Conselación (http://books.google.com/books?id=3-Ci_WKSBBMC&dq=ma%C3%B1ga&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=I3mC0XYtQ1&sig=xxvXNjYqiG1f4tTzzk6sgilrknE&hl=en&ei=NG9eSqPxH4vyNKTOiJMG&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2)

Actually it was spelled manga in Spanish orthography before Lope K. Santos changed it.



Holy kamote (sweet potato)! It is indeed similar!

so be it. :okay:

Correction: mañga. :)

there you go. :okay:

I think, this is the perfect combination of Ilonggo, Cebuano and Waray.

Whew...We are truely descendants of one ancestor... :banana:

Viva Visayas United!!!

10 Bornean Datus perhaps? :lol:
Dismissed as a myth but it gives something though...but we may never know until thorough anthropological research has been done.

(*Noticed I used anthropology instead of historical...because it goes beyond the recorded events and oral history but the nature of the culture itself).

I noticed similarities here....back in Hiligaynon katahum refers to anything that is beauty even the physical beauty of the person. Kaanyag has also been used though.

And the namit and nami usage has similarities with lami-a of Cebuano/Bojolano with the former pertaining to "delicious" food while the latter pertains to anything to describe nice or cool things.

I wonder how Waray would have similarities too.

the western waray (leyte and western samar) use "mahusay" for anything beautiful.

mahusay lagi iton pagkit-on. (that thing looks beautiful.)

mahusay it im anak. (your daughter is beautiful.) but sons are called "guapo" or "hitsuraan". only women are called "mahusay".

kahusay nga balay! (what a beautiful house!)

but when we speak of food, we say "karasa" (lami-a), "marasa" (lami).

karasa gud la han tahong ni mana carla. (the tahong of carla is really delicious.)

that's from what i know. i forgot those from eastern samar. mas lalom tong ila didto.

kay ang "kapoy" sa amo, sa eastern samar kay "butlaw". ang "mahugaw" kay "mayamuit". ang "mingaw" kay "hidlaw", ang "mulay" (dula/duwa) kay "uyag". ang "nawong" kay "kahimo" ug daghan pang kalahian sa among sinultian pero waray man daw gihapon pareha namo.

Correction: mañga. :)

Thanks. There is should be a tilde at the top of n. I am too lazy to use enye because I am using a Linux desktop (Fedora Core 10 to be exact) and I have to go to character map to insert the letter. If I am using an Apple computer, it is just a piece of cake.

the western waray (leyte and western samar) use "mahusay" for anything beautiful.

mahusay lagi iton pagkit-on. (that thing looks beautiful.)

mahusay it im anak. (your daughter is beautiful.) but sons are called "guapo" or "hitsuraan". only women are called "mahusay".

kahusay nga balay! (what a beautiful house!)


in cebuano "husay" is to make order or to clear things up. husayon nato matud pa sa mga katigulangan sa barangay.

although "hitsuraan" in cebuano is applied to both sexes.

gwapa/maanyag - girls
gwapo/ambungan - boys

sorry for the OT: puwede mangutana kinsa ninyo naay idea, bisag any words lang basta african o european nga gi gamit na nato sa atoa filipino language. pls,, i really need your help.

sorry for the OT: puwede mangutana kinsa ninyo naay idea, bisag any words lang basta african o european nga gi gamit na nato sa atoa filipino language. pls,, i really need your help.

A few examples:

http://filipinokastila.tripod.com/hispani.html

http://filipinokastila.tripod.com/cebu.html


I have read and seen both books: Hispanismos en el tagalo and Hispanismos en cebuano. The Tagalog one is much more thicker and contains more words, but Cebuano should also have more or less if we also include the English-Spanish cognates in our vocabulary.

in cebuano "husay" is to make order or to clear things up. husayon nato matud pa sa mga katigulangan sa barangay.

although "hitsuraan" in cebuano is applied to both sexes.

gwapa/maanyag - girls
gwapo/ambungan - boys

How about hapsay? Ex. Hapsay kaayo tanawon ang balay.

in cebuano "husay" is to make order or to clear things up. husayon nato matud pa sa mga katigulangan sa barangay.

although "hitsuraan" in cebuano is applied to both sexes.

gwapa/maanyag - girls
gwapo/ambungan - boys

:)husay or mahusay in tagalog means excellent or good/"magaling" or "pulido"

ex. Mahusay(excellent) ang batang ito sa larangan ng matematika.
Mahusay(good quality) ang pagkakagawa ng bahay mo.

In Hiligaynon "husay" means "comb" or "suklay."

For example:
"Palihog husaya bala ang buhok mo! Daw ka-damak tulukon!"
(Please comb your hair! It's very messy to look at!)

^^wow, one word with different meaning/usage. nice:okay:

How about hapsay? Ex. Hapsay kaayo tanawon ang balay.

right! "hapsay" could still mean order. IMO, when you use hapsay, you mean order of things. husay when you meant to order arguing people.

e.g.
hapsay
hapsay ang dagan sa trapiko karong orasa.
there is a smooth flow of traffic at this point.

husay
atong husayon ang atong panaglalis.
let's settle our arguments/differences.

:)husay or mahusay in tagalog means excellent or good/"magaling" or "pulido"

ex. Mahusay(excellent) ang batang ito sa larangan ng matematika.
Mahusay(good quality) ang pagkakagawa ng bahay mo.

"magaling" in cebuano is "maayo" meaning "good"

for example:

maayo kaayo siya mugitara!
magaling talaga siyang maggitara!

In Hiligaynon "husay" means "comb" or "suklay."

For example:
"Palihog husaya bala ang buhok mo! Daw ka-damak tulukon!"
(Please comb your hair! It's very messy to look at!)

to comb in cebuano is sudlayi or sudlaya

^^ the waray also use the same word "hapsay" and "husay" with the same meaning as those you posted above.

just want to share this one, i think this is the most beautiful version of rosas pandan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7s8lKIU6-k

..unsaun diay pag post ug video dinhi? sory, link ra ako kamauhan.

In Hiligaynon "husay" means "comb" or "suklay."

For example:
"Palihog husaya bala ang buhok mo! Daw ka-damak tulukon!"
(Please comb your hair! It's very messy to look at!)

This sentence could be understood in Cebuano to mean also as comb your hair though the literal translation is fix your hair where fixing the hair is combing it. The meanings are not very different, there has just been a slight divergence in meaning.

As for the Bisaya in Borneo, a more likely story for them being there is that the goods that Moro raiders took from the Visayas was not confined to pots, jewelry, and other items but in slaves as well. Our own history certainly has enough mention of the alipin so slavery was present in the region.

..unsaun diay pag post ug video dinhi? sory, link ra ako kamauhan.

Here we go:
l7s8lKIU6-k

thank you bai, @berns

Ang paghimo og balak sa susama nako nga dili lawom ang binisaya


Kalisod ba diay magmugna
og balak nga Binisaya--
ang akoang gihuna-huna
dili man mogawas
sa akong dila.

Unsaon ba ni pag-ingon
aron gyod ko masabtan.

Mura ma'g gasige ko'g lulo
apan dili tawon magul-an.

-bakasaurus

I think, this is the perfect combination of Ilonggo, Cebuano and Waray.

Whew...We are truely descendants of one ancestor... :banana:

Viva Visayas United!!!
Correction: mañga. :)
Viva! :pepper::pepper:
@bai Ang_Bantayanon, bai amendercabal2 and bai coolbox101
Yup, yup. There are indeed Bornean Bisaya but they are a minority tribe. According to my Malaysian Chinese (Peranakan) friends who are from Sarawak & also Brunei, these Bisaya, though they are brown just like us, are not really considered by the mainland “Establishment” as true “bumiputras” or sons of the soil because of a cultural gap – these Bisaya are surprisingly Christian also, just like us... :)

Nice interesting exchange of thoughts.

@bakasaurus:
Naa na'y particular rhyme scheme kung mag-balak? Or kuha lang ka og format sa english? Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyme_scheme) is a list of rhyme schemes for english. Not really sure if we could follow these for Binisaya, and I don't know what our traditions are for the balak. I mean instead of rhymes, we could go with alliteration and other things. Mura'g kuti man ipa-rhyme ang Binisaya.

Ang pan burikat bai, kay ang filling sa tunga kay gikan na sa mga pan na bahaw nga gihimo ug creamy paste, nga gitimplahan ug gicoloran *usually pula* unya gitandayan ug duha ka layer nga pan. Ang akong nahinumdoman sa akong anhing lola ang tawag namo niana didto sa Mandaue kay kuan man, kining Pan de Regla.

The tagalogs would call their Pan de Regla aka Pan Burikat as Kalihim.

:lol:

@bakasaurus:
Naa na'y particular rhyme scheme kung mag-balak? Or kuha lang ka og format sa english? Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhyme_scheme) is a list of rhyme schemes for english. Not really sure if we could follow these for Binisaya, and I don't know what our traditions are for the balak. I mean instead of rhymes, we could go with alliteration and other things. Mura'g kuti man ipa-rhyme ang Binisaya.

I am not an expert sa balak na form. Hehehe. But Linda K. Alburo, Resil Mojares and Simeon Dumdum are authorities on this. Actually, mura ug mas dali i-rhyme ang bisaya kay syllabic sound man kaayo ang origin sa atong language (ba be bi bo bu). But my attempts are usually freeverse, wala kaayo koy paki sa rhyme schemes. I do agree though when there is a marriage between rhyme and meaning (kumbaga form and function), then that may be best. But Im very amateur man god. Hehehe.

Anyway, when I use rhyme, I just hope it doesn't sound forced. Kani nga balak nag attempt ko at some semblance of form/structure. Hehe.






Unsaon pag-ihap
by bakasaurus

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mszlkyM8t8o/SXEeYpfFOvI/AAAAAAAADw8/U1Hd2iodfPw/s320/111hands_counting

1
Gitudloan mi ni Nanay unsaon pag-ihap,
sugod sa one kuyog sa kumingking,
sunod ang two sa tudlo nga naay singsing
hangtod nga nahurot ang amoang mga tudlo
pagka twenty apil ang mga kumagko.

2
Unya dili ra diay kutob sa tudlo ug kumagko
ang imong maihap sa mga numero
apil ang jolen, trak-trak ug lastiko
nga kon akoang maihap og sakto
hatagan dayon ko ni Tatay og peso.

3
Nilabay ang mga adlaw, buwan ug katuigan,
dali ra kaayong maihap kining tanan.
Ug, tungod ni Ma'am, akong nakat-onan
nga kining mga numero puwedeng magmartsa
hangtod kuno sa walay kahangtoran.

4
Ambot nganong wala gyod tawon mi gitudloan
og unsaon pag-ihap sa among amahan--
Sa gisugdan ni Nanay nga one
ug sa kanindot sa gitudlo ni Ma'am
sa pag-ihap sa walay kataposan.

5
Apan, Tay, kahibalo man unta ka
ug unsa ko kamaayong moihap
bisan kon unsa pa kataas ug kadaghan
ug unsa pa kalayo ang utlanan--
nganong nibiya ka man
sa kwarenta y kwatro pa lang?

-dp-

I am not an expert sa balak na form. Hehehe. But Linda K. Alburo, Resil Mojares and Simeon Dumdum are authorities on this. Actually, mura ug mas dali i-rhyme ang bisaya kay syllabic sound man kaayo ang origin sa atong language (ba be bi bo bu). But my attempts are usually freeverse, wala kaayo koy paki sa rhyme schemes. I do agree though when there is a marriage between rhyme and meaning (kumbaga form and function), then that may be best. But Im very amateur man god. Hehehe.

Anyway, when I use rhyme, I just hope it doesn't sound forced. Kani nga balak nag attempt ko at some semblance of form/structure. Hehe.






Unsaon pag-ihap
by bakasaurus

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mszlkyM8t8o/SXEeYpfFOvI/AAAAAAAADw8/U1Hd2iodfPw/s320/111hands_counting

1
Gitudloan mi ni Nanay unsaon pag-ihap,
sugod sa one kuyog sa kumingking,
sunod ang two sa tudlo nga naay singsing
hangtod nga nahurot ang amoang mga tudlo
pagka twenty apil ang mga kumagko.

2
Unya dili ra diay kutob sa tudlo ug kumagko
ang imong maihap sa mga numero
apil ang jolen, trak-trak ug lastiko
nga kon akoang maihap og sakto
hatagan dayon ko ni Tatay og peso.

3
Nilabay ang mga adlaw, buwan ug katuigan,
dali ra kaayong maihap kining tanan.
Ug, tungod ni Ma'am, akong nakat-onan
nga kining mga numero puwedeng magmartsa
hangtod kuno sa walay kahangtoran.

4
Ambot nganong wala gyod tawon mi gitudloan
og unsaon pag-ihap sa among amahan--
Sa gisugdan ni Nanay nga one
ug sa kanindot sa gitudlo ni Ma'am
sa pag-ihap sa walay kataposan.

5
Apan, Tay, kahibalo man unta ka
ug unsa ko kamaayong moihap
bisan kon unsa pa kataas ug kadaghan
ug unsa pa kalayo ang utlanan--
nganong nibiya ka man
sa kwarenta y kwatro pa lang?

wow! amazing! hehehe.... poet man diay ka bai @baka! nindot kaayo paminawon! hehehe...suya ko da! hehe

nagkatawa lang ko sa peso! english kaayo! PISO NA UY! hahaha...:lol::lol::naughty::D:nocrook:

wow! amazing! hehehe.... poet man diay ka bai @baka! nindot kaayo paminawon! hehehe...suya ko da! hehe

nagkatawa lang ko sa peso! english kaayo! PISO NA UY! hahaha...:lol::lol::naughty::D:nocrook:

Hahaha. Bitaw bai. na hala ilisdan nato. Giilisdan man gus sa editor. Mura ug proper noun na ang peso hehehe. Amateur ra ni ang atoa bai.:lol: Salamat sa pagcritique.

Dia pay lain!


Bilar
by bakasaurus

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mszlkyM8t8o/SUDZBBNAD_I/AAAAAAAADg0/WqEMGvqqdvg/s320/towitness1.jpg

Post-Traumatic
Stress Disorder
ang dokumentaryo
sa channel 4
alas singko
sa kadlawon.

Naghilak
ang mga sundawong
Kano ug Kana
samtang nagsaysay
sa ilang gipamatay
niadtong gubat sa Vietnam
ug kagubot sa Iraq.

Tingali og
sa laing adlaw pa,
ay, mor pa,
dili nako palabyon
ang mga bukton
nga nagyunyon,
mga bukog
sa buhi nga
nanglili
gikan sa
unod nga nagisi.

Apan karon, igo na
ang akoang pag-inusara
niining Paskoha lakip
ang akong kamingaw,
ug kabug-at sa paminaw.
(Kakuyaw kaha
kon madugangan!)

Mao nga akong gibalhin
sa laing istasyon diin
Sex and the City
ang salida karon.
Unang niatraka
si Sarah Jessica
sa iyang pangutana
karong episoda
kon...kuan...
tinuod ba kaha
nga malas kuno
ang mag-iyot
sa first date?

^^^^bai! sa akong pamensar dili ba kaha ikau ang nabanhaw natong higala nga si barukdok? hilig man pod to sa mga balak:)

mYSr2k4buqU&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYSr2k4buqU&feature=channel_page

Full credits to my friend hokulani78 from Honolulu.
Well, the linguistic similarities within the Malayo-Polynesian region are astounding and too extraordinary to be simply ignored. These must be further explored... :)

Hokulani's sources:
MUSIC USED:
Samingad - Taiwanese Aboriginal Meeting Song
Mark Keali'i Ho'omalu - He'eia
Matatoa - Here Maohi

REFERENCES AND CITED FOR THIS VIDEO:
--Andaya, B. W. (1984). A History of Malaysia. Kuala Lumpur: Palgrave MacMillan.
--Armstrong, W. (1977). Around the World with a King. Vermont: Charles E. Tuttle Company.
--Beckwith, M. (1977). Hawaiian Mythology. Honolulu: University of Hawai`i.
--Bellwood, P. (1996). Origins, Ancestry, Alliance, Explorations in Austronesian Ethnography. Paper prepared for Australian National University.
--Dixon, R. (1916) Oceanic Mythology. Boston: Marshall Jones Co.
--Donne, M. A. (1866). The Sandwich Islands and Her People. London: Society for the Promotion of Christian Knowledge.
--Dougherty, M. (1992). To Steal A Kingdom. Waimanalo: Island Press.
--Elson, R. E. (2008). The Idea of Indonesia A History. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
--Fox, J. (2004). Current Developments in Comparative Austronesian Studies. Retrieved from Universitas Udayana of Bali. Paper presented at Symposium Austronesia Pascasarjana Linguististik dan Kajian Budaya.
--Fox, J. (edited) (2005) Origins, Ancestry, and Alliance: Explorations in Austronesian Ethnography. Canberra: Department of Anthroplogy, Australian Nation University.
--Gibson, Anne. (2001). The Peopling of the Pacific. Science Magazine: Official Magazine of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Issue of March 2, 2001. Pp 1735-1737.
--Greenhill, S.J., Blust. R, & Gray, R.D. (2008). The Austronesian Basic Vocabulary Database: From Bioinformatics to Lexomics. Evolutionary Bioinformatics, 4:271-283.
--Howe, K. R. 'Ideas of Māori origins', Te Ara - the Encyclopedia of New Zealand, Updated Oct. 28, 2008. Retrieved May 8, 2009. Web site : http://www.TeAra.govt.nz/NewZealander...
--Kalākaua, King D. (1972). Myths and Legends of Hawaii. Tokyo: Tuttle Company, Inc.
--Kuykendall, R. (1967). The Hawaiian Kingdom. 1874-1893: the Kalakaua Dynasty, Honolulu, University of Hawaii. viii, 764 p.
--Larson, G. Cucchic, T. Fujita, M. Matisoo-Smithe, E. Robinse, J. Anderson, A. Rolettg, B. Spriggs, M. Dolmani, G. Kim, T. Thi Dieu Thuyk, N. Randil, E. Dohertye, M. Awe Duem, R. Bollt, R. Djubiantonom, T. Bion Griffing, B. Intohn, M. Keanec, E. Patrick Kircho, P. Kuang-Ti Lip, K. Morwood, M. Pedriñar, L. Pipers, P. Ryan J. Rabettt, R. Shooteru, P. Van den Bergh, G. West, E. Wickler, S. Jing Yuan, J. Cooperi, A. & Dobney, K. (2007) Retrieved May 8, 2009. Phylogeny and ancient DNA of Sus provides insights into neolithic expansion in Island Southeast Asia and Oceania. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States. Retrieved May 2009. Web site: http://www.pnas.org/content/104/12/48...
--Ricklefs, M.C. (1993). A history of Modern Indonesia Since c.1300. New York: The Macmillan Press LTD 1993, pp 7, 41,
--Salazar, Zeus. (1998). The Malayan Connection: Ang Pilipinas sa Dunia Melayu. Quezon City: Palimbagan ng Lahi.
--Westervelt, W. D. (1923). Hawaiian Historical Legends. New York: Fleming H Revell Co,.
--Westervelt, W. D. (1916). Hawaiian Legends of Ghosts and Ghost-Gods. Boston: Ellis Press.
--Winstedt, R. O. (1925). Shaman, Saiva and Sufi. London: Constable and Company, Ltd.
--Matisoo-Smith, E & Robins, J. H. (2004). Origins and dispersals of Pacific peoples: Evidence from mtDNA phylogenies of the Pacific rat Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States. Retrieved May 2009. Web site: http://www.pnas.org/content/101/24/91...

bai Mercato, naabtan to nako si Barukdok diri pero kadiyot ra pod kaayo.. Ug dili to ako hehehe. Maayo unta to da kay naa pod diay ganahan og pamalak hehehe.


Here's another one, pero dili ni akoa..sinuwat sa akong idol nga si Adonis Durado.
Timing ni kay bag-o ra pod nasunog ang Vision Theatre.

Palihug basaha ninyo mga higala, sigurado ko nga malingaw mo aning balaka. This is a great example of a vivid poem, full of effective imagery. Matay, tanang bisaya dali kaayong makaimagine kung unsa ang ekesena nga naa sa balak. It is also very witty and funny.


Pagkaugdaw
by Adonis Durado

Makapaig ang kainit sa alas-dos.
Samtang gapasilong ilawom
Sa landong sa poste sa kuryente,
Mingislo ang nawong sa bata
Nga gahangad sa iyang tabanog.
Kay nakuwangan sa hilig,
Mitahirig kini, mitulilik
Ngadto sa gabagang adlaw.
Ug kalit, nalantaw niya sa langit
Nga ang nagkabus-ok nga panganod
Hinayhinayng gitugot sa itom,
Nangisug nga asung nagagikan
Sa sikitsikit nga mga atup.
"Sunog! Sunog! Su——————nog!"
Kalit nagkatibulaag ang mga istambay
Nga gaduwag dama sa may tindahan.
Ang mga naghingut-anayng inahan
Sa pantawan midalig saka, sakmit
Sa ilang mga anak nga giduyan
Sa katagpilaw sa udtong tutok.
Ang lalaki sulod sa kasilyas mipugong
Sa ga-ung-ung niyang tubol,
Ug milargog sutoy, ambak sa paril.
Pagkaguliyang. Dunay mga siyagit.
Mga tiyabaw. Pagpangita. Pagkadagma.
Madungog ang sunod-sunod nga siren
Sa trak sa bomberong nagpangabot.
Samtang dali-daling nangahabwa gikan
Sa ilang puy-anan ang mga tagbalay
Nga gainiyahayg pas-an sa bisag
Unsang mapunit nga kabtangan.
Kimpang nga gapas-an og pridyider.
Magtiayong gasalbar sa ilang sala set.
Mga batang gakarakarag, gasikwat
Og plato, kaldiro nga nawanihan og takob,
Sinina, sapatos nga di mao ang paris.
Dayon mapamati ang pag-iwigik
Sa mga nalitson nga baboy,
Hasta ang pagpakiluoy sa mga iro
Ug iring nga nangapriso sa balayng
Gihabhab, gilamon sa dilaab sa kayo.
Karon, diha sa pagkaugdaw, mopuli
Ang kahaw-ang sa galamhan.
Mobakho ang byudong nalimtan
Ang lungon sa gihayang minahal.
Samtang matanga ang babayeng
Tungod sa iyahang karatol, kalisang,
Pulir ra sa kilay ang nabitbit.

Bisaya (Sarawak) Rosary Prayers
This language is also known as Bisayah, Bisaya Bukit, Visayak, Bekiau, and Lorang Bukit. This language is spoken by 7,000 people in the region southeast of Marudi, 5th Division in Malaysia. It is also spoken in Brunei and Indonesia.

Amahan namu / Our Father
Amahan namu nga itotat ca sa langit:
Ipapagdayet an imong ngalan:
Moanhi canamun an imong pagcahadi:
Tumanun an imong buot dinhi sa yuta,
maingun sa langit.
Ihatag mo damun an canun namun sa matagarlao:
Ug pauadun mo cami san mga-sala namu,
maingun ginuara namun,
san mga-nacasala damun:
Ngan diri imo tugotan cami maholog sa manga-panulai:
sa amun manga-caauai.
Apan bauiun mo cami sa manga-maraut ngatanan.

Maghimaya ka Malia / Hail Mary
Maghimaya ka Malia (Maria) nga napono ka sa
galasiya (grasiya) ang aton Gino Diyosa adda saimo.
Dayago ka sa ku pa sa mangababai ngatanan
ug dayago man ang bunga sa tiyan mosi Hesus.
Santa Malia (Maria),
inahan ka sa Diyosa
magampo ka tango sa anomanga makasasala,
niyan ug sa igkamatai namo.
Amen.

^^ wow...halos pareho ra gyud...thanks sa info bai!

Format: English = Malay = Bisaya

wake-up = bangon = bangon
road = jalan = dalan
another = lain = lain
umbrella = payong = payong
ball = bola = bola
white = puti = puti
lacking = kurang = kulang
expensive = mahal = mahal
prawn = udang = ulang
two = dua = duha/dua
five = lima = lima
ten = sepuloh = pulo
five hundred = ratus lima = lima ka gatus
to drink = minum = inum
this = ini = kini
to weigth = timbang = timbang
twenty = dua puloh = duha pulo
twenty five = dua puloh lima = duha napulo'g lima
from = dari = diari/diri
fort = kota = kota
sea = laut = laut/lawud
soap = sabun = sabon
sarong = sarong = sarong
ash = abu = abo
dust = abuk = abog
me/I = aku = ako
termite = anai = anai
child = anak = anak
wind = angin = hangin
roof = atap = atop
pail/bucket = baldi = baldi
return = balik = balik
duff/stupid = bangag = bangag
bench/stool = bangku = bangko
wet = basah = basa
stone/rock = batu = bato
pay = bayar = bayad
starfruit = belimbing = balimbing
seed = benih = binhi
carry dangling in the hand = bimbit = bitbit
a type of cake made from tapioca = bingka = bingka
open = buka = buka
moon = bulan = bulan
wrap-up = bungkus = bugkus
blind = buta = buta
touch with the fingertips = kuit = kuhit
vinegar = cuka = suka
leaf = daun = dahon
you = dikau = ikaw
wall = dinding = dingding
a cubic measure = gantang = gantang
restless/anxious = gelisah = galisa (na lisang)
scissor = gunting = gunting (to cut with scissor = menggunting = minggunting)
debt = hutang = utang
cottong = kapas = gapas
craggy = kasap = kasap (kana bitaw mukaon ka'g mais wla taphi, naa pay sungo. . . .mura balason)
Lightning = kilat = kilat
we/us = kita = kita
nail = kuku = kuko
flea = kutu = kuto
other = lain = lain
blue bottle fly = langau = langaw (lagung)
sky = langit = langit
floor = lantai = lantay (sa ato ni salog nga kawayan)
male = lelaki = lalaki
rice mortar = lesung = lusung
to sway = liuk = lihuk
free = luang = luwang (as in luwang(luag) kaayo ang kwarto)
gulf = lubuk = lubok (talagsa ra ko makadungog ani, sa mga idaran ra nko madungog)
wound = luka = nuka
to race = lumba = lumba
dolphin = lumba-lumba = lumba-lumba (sa mga tigulang mangingisda ra ka makadungog ani)
moss/lichen = lumut = lumut
mango = mangga = manga
eye = mata = mata
you = kamu = kamo
open the mouth wide = nganga = nganga
gnawing pain = ngilu = ngilu (kanang bation sa ngipon kng nalabian kaon ug aslom sama sa mangga)
a type of palm = nipah = nipa
thin = nipis = nipis
mosquito = nyamuk = lamok
a shout for attention = oi = oi (as in "oi! bayot pagtarong")
bitter = pahit = pait
bow = panah = pana
to take off; to strip off = papas = papas
brackish = payau = payaw (bukana sa sapa)
sprinkle = percik = pisik
festival = pesta = pista
fasting = puasa = puasa
jute; hemp = rami = rami (sako nga rami)
hundred = ratus = gatus
lace = renda = renda (renda sa kabayo)
thousand = ribu = libu
patrol = ronda = ronda
suffer a loss = rugi = lugi
deer = rusa = usa
saturday = sabtu = sabado
soap = sabun = sabon
cock fight = sabung = sabong
cock-fighting = sabungan = sabungan
sago = sagu = sago
pain = sakit = sakit
witness = saksi = saksi
support = sangga = sangga
wipe/sweep = sapu = sapo
jerk/pull suddenly = sentak = sintak (kanang mamasul bitaw, kaliton nimo bira ang nylon kay mikubit ang isda)
kick = sepa = sipa
shoe = sepatu = sapatos
pincer = sepit = ipit
elbow = siku = siko
confiscate = sita = sita (gisita sa mga pulis ang mga tambay)
oath = sumpah = sumpa
letter = surat = sulat
follow-up = susulan = sulsulan
soya = tahu = tahu
plants = tanaman = tanaman
pull = tarik = tarik (tarik ug katig sa sakayan)
to clear the undergrowth = tebas = tibas (gitibas/gilaras ang kasagingan)
redeem = tebus = tubos (gitubos ang kinabuhi)
copper/brass = tembaga = timbaga/tumbaga
period of time = tempoh = timpo
bucket = timba = timba
weigh = timbang = timbang
ink = tinta = tinta
towel = tuala = tualya
fall = tumbang = tumba

uban = uban = grey hair
ubi = ubi = parsnip/tapioca
ubun = hubun = top part of the head (pinaka maunang maupaw)
ukir = ukit = carve/engrave
umang-umang = umang = hermit-crab (paun sa pingwit para dali mukubit)

^^ http://statics.plurk.com/35b16fc25623670e41c2be6bf8ac38c7.gif In some ways, other Visayans tend to feel being subjugated by the connotation that "Bisaya" is the Cebuano language while Hiligaynon or Waray are not-Visayan despite the identity that they belong to the Visayan group.

^^ http://statics.plurk.com/35b16fc25623670e41c2be6bf8ac38c7.gif In some ways, other Visayans tend to feel being subjugated by the connotation that "Bisaya" is the Cebuano language while Hiligaynon or Waray are not-Visayan despite the identity that they belong to the Visayan group.Indeed? Now where did this come from this time? :lol:

Ah yes, the words “some” & “other” such as yourself perhaps? This point had been belaboured upon time and time again in my brief existence here on SSC. Ad infinitum mind you and I see no further need to explain it one more time for your benefit. :sly:

Or should I say, for your own personal issues? Yet you deign it perfectly alright to inhabit our majestic Cebuano threads. Why is there really a need to harp on it at every opportune time, I wonder? Deep in the darkest recesses of thine thoughts, I really really must wonder? :devil:

Indeed? Now where did this come from this time? :lol:

Ah yes, the words “some” & “other” such as yourself perhaps? This point had been belaboured upon time and time again in my brief existence here on SSC. Ad infinitum mind you and I see no further need to explain it one more time for your benefit. :sly:

Or should I say, for your own personal issues? Yet you deign it perfectly alright to inhabit our majestic Cebuano threads. Why is there really a need to harp on it at every opportune time, I wonder? Deep in the darkest recesses of thine thoughts, I really really must wonder? :devil:

Who said it was my personal issue? http://statics.plurk.com/92b595a573d25dd5e39a57b5d56d4d03.gif
I'm laughing because you got me all wrong. So wrong that you accuse me of false accusations of destab.

I must say, I would not be clarifying myself too because you accused me of evil plots in the Cebuano thread. I'm just saying my sentiments of the word usage "Bisaya" because we do feel left out whenever some people would say "Bisaya" as referring to Cebuano alone. We got a newbie and I would just like to express my sentiments about this issue. Why? What's wrong with that? Would it instigate war? It depends on you on how would you accept my opinion. This is a forum and ideas should be expressed and in this area, I hope we could tackle these issues as mature people, not like kids.

Perhaps you can be more courteous in your accusations before concluding that I have the deepest and darkest thoughts of destab. :sly:

It's not even a fact, it's just my opinion or my dos sentimos worth. So respect it even if its different because I have no bad intentions against Cebuanos.

And perhaps, is it okay if you speak in laymen's term. I'm not intelligent enough to fathom your thoughts. Thanks! ;)

And seems you are not warmly welcome langyaws here anymore expressing their sentiments about the growing sense of isolation and issue about the Visayan identity. I just cannot agree all the time but you said something evil about my intentions...well ikaw na lang tu-o ana. Because, that remark is already below the belt.

Di na lang ko manghilabot ug "mag-samuk" diri kay basin unsa pa inyo nga isulti sa akon kay dili man ko Sugboanon. Maghilom na lang ko. Daghan salamat sa imo nga pag-dawat sa ako diri. Mao nga, tinuod di'ay ang gisulti sa iban. http://statics.plurk.com/6cb1dc388b9259565efedef8f336d27d.gif

I rest my case.

Format: English = Malay = Bisaya

wake-up = bangon = bangon
road = jalan = dalan
another = lain = lain
umbrella = payong = payong
ball = bola = bola
white = puti = puti
lacking = kurang = kulang
expensive = mahal = mahal
prawn = udang = ulang
two = dua = duha/dua
five = lima = lima
ten = sepuloh = pulo
five hundred = ratus lima = lima ka gatus
to drink = minum = inum
this = ini = kini
to weigth = timbang = timbang
twenty = dua puloh = duha pulo
twenty five = dua puloh lima = duha napulo'g lima
from = dari = diari/diri
fort = kota = kota
sea = laut = laut/lawud
soap = sabun = sabon
sarong = sarong = sarong
ash = abu = abo
dust = abuk = abog
me/I = aku = ako
termite = anai = anai
child = anak = anak
wind = angin = hangin
roof = atap = atop
pail/bucket = baldi = baldi
return = balik = balik
duff/stupid = bangag = bangag
bench/stool = bangku = bangko
wet = basah = basa
stone/rock = batu = bato
pay = bayar = bayad
starfruit = belimbing = balimbing
seed = benih = binhi
carry dangling in the hand = bimbit = bitbit
a type of cake made from tapioca = bingka = bingka
open = buka = buka
moon = bulan = bulan
wrap-up = bungkus = bugkus
blind = buta = buta
touch with the fingertips = kuit = kuhit
vinegar = cuka = suka
leaf = daun = dahon
you = dikau = ikaw
wall = dinding = dingding
a cubic measure = gantang = gantang
restless/anxious = gelisah = galisa (na lisang)
scissor = gunting = gunting (to cut with scissor = menggunting = minggunting)
debt = hutang = utang
cottong = kapas = gapas
craggy = kasap = kasap (kana bitaw mukaon ka'g mais wla taphi, naa pay sungo. . . .mura balason)
Lightning = kilat = kilat
we/us = kita = kita
nail = kuku = kuko
flea = kutu = kuto
other = lain = lain
blue bottle fly = langau = langaw (lagung)
sky = langit = langit
floor = lantai = lantay (sa ato ni salog nga kawayan)
male = lelaki = lalaki
rice mortar = lesung = lusung
to sway = liuk = lihuk
free = luang = luwang (as in luwang(luag) kaayo ang kwarto)
gulf = lubuk = lubok (talagsa ra ko makadungog ani, sa mga idaran ra nko madungog)
wound = luka = nuka
to race = lumba = lumba
dolphin = lumba-lumba = lumba-lumba (sa mga tigulang mangingisda ra ka makadungog ani)
moss/lichen = lumut = lumut
mango = mangga = manga
eye = mata = mata
you = kamu = kamo
open the mouth wide = nganga = nganga
gnawing pain = ngilu = ngilu (kanang bation sa ngipon kng nalabian kaon ug aslom sama sa mangga)
a type of palm = nipah = nipa
thin = nipis = nipis
mosquito = nyamuk = lamok
a shout for attention = oi = oi (as in "oi! bayot pagtarong")
bitter = pahit = pait
bow = panah = pana
to take off; to strip off = papas = papas
brackish = payau = payaw (bukana sa sapa)
sprinkle = percik = pisik
festival = pesta = pista
fasting = puasa = puasa
jute; hemp = rami = rami (sako nga rami)
hundred = ratus = gatus
lace = renda = renda (renda sa kabayo)
thousand = ribu = libu
patrol = ronda = ronda
suffer a loss = rugi = lugi
deer = rusa = usa
saturday = sabtu = sabado
soap = sabun = sabon
cock fight = sabung = sabong
cock-fighting = sabungan = sabungan
sago = sagu = sago
pain = sakit = sakit
witness = saksi = saksi
support = sangga = sangga
wipe/sweep = sapu = sapo
jerk/pull suddenly = sentak = sintak (kanang mamasul bitaw, kaliton nimo bira ang nylon kay mikubit ang isda)
kick = sepa = sipa
shoe = sepatu = sapatos
pincer = sepit = ipit
elbow = siku = siko
confiscate = sita = sita (gisita sa mga pulis ang mga tambay)
oath = sumpah = sumpa
letter = surat = sulat
follow-up = susulan = sulsulan
soya = tahu = tahu
plants = tanaman = tanaman
pull = tarik = tarik (tarik ug katig sa sakayan)
to clear the undergrowth = tebas = tibas (gitibas/gilaras ang kasagingan)
redeem = tebus = tubos (gitubos ang kinabuhi)
copper/brass = tembaga = timbaga/tumbaga
period of time = tempoh = timpo
bucket = timba = timba
weigh = timbang = timbang
ink = tinta = tinta
towel = tuala = tualya
fall = tumbang = tumba

this is amazing!

^^ Actually some of those words are wrongly associated with Malay. I can point out European words of origin such as: towel, ink, shoes, soap, saturday, fort, and ball translations. Those following words for both languages have their etymologies from Spanish or Portuguese language.

^^

right! i can also spot some differences w/c i believe is not malay in origin.

yeah you're right...these countries also got loan words from Spanish and Portuguese languages

Who said it was my personal issue? http://statics.plurk.com/92b595a573d25dd5e39a57b5d56d4d03.gif
I'm laughing because you got me all wrong. So wrong that you accuse me of false accusations of destab.

I must say, I would not be clarifying myself too because you accused me of evil plots in the Cebuano thread. I'm just saying my sentiments of the word usage "Bisaya" because we do feel left out whenever some people would say "Bisaya" as referring to Cebuano alone. We got a newbie and I would just like to express my sentiments about this issue. Why? What's wrong with that? Would it instigate war? It depends on you on how would you accept my opinion. This is a forum and ideas should be expressed and in this area, I hope we could tackle these issues as mature people, not like kids.

Perhaps you can be more courteous in your accusations before concluding that I have the deepest and darkest thoughts of destab. :sly:

It's not even a fact, it's just my opinion or my dos sentimos worth. So respect it even if its different because I have no bad intentions against Cebuanos.

And perhaps, is it okay if you speak in laymen's term. I'm not intelligent enough to fathom your thoughts. Thanks! ;)

And seems you are not warmly welcome langyaws here anymore expressing their sentiments about the growing sense of isolation and issue about the Visayan identity. I just cannot agree all the time but you said something evil about my intentions...well ikaw na lang tu-o ana. Because, that remark is already below the belt.

Di na lang ko manghilabot ug "mag-samuk" diri kay basin unsa pa inyo nga isulti sa akon kay dili man ko Sugboanon. Maghilom na lang ko. Daghan salamat sa imo nga pag-dawat sa ako diri. Mao nga, tinuod di'ay ang gisulti sa iban. http://statics.plurk.com/6cb1dc388b9259565efedef8f336d27d.gif

I rest my case. Did I accuse you? :lol: Your past recent history is most edifying, that I can see...

This is not the first time you raised that point, so don’t deny it.

We had answered your concerns regarding that point at several interludes in the past. So there, how many more repetitions of the same question is necessary? Ad infinitum, can any Cebuano forumer here say that any one is claiming exclusivity to the title of Bisaya? Because our interloper here needs to be reassured time and time again. He already knows the answer but sees it fit to bring it up again and again.

Can anybody answer the question at hand?

We had welcomed you in the past and yet this?

Hah well then, let the other Cebuano forumers, those who really know you, be the judge of that.

Did I accuse you? :lol: Your past recent history is most edifying, that I can see...

This is not the first time you raised that point, so don’t deny it.

We had answered your concerns regarding that point at several interludes in the past. So there, how many more repetitions of the same question is necessary? Ad infinitum, can any Cebuano forumer here say that any one is claiming exclusivity to the title of Bisaya? Because our interloper here needs to be reassured time and time again. He already knows the answer but sees it fit to bring it up again and again.

Can anybody answer the question at hand?

We had welcomed you in the past and yet this?

Hah well then, let the other Cebuano forumers, those who really know you, be the judge of that.

And so be it. ;)

So if I may ask you, if I am not the one who raised this issue...will you still welcome that particular forumer who raised the same issue as I did before?

^^^^ But of course, why not?

If the question at hand had already been answered in the past, thence I see no need for further repetition. Not unless one's own personal convictions had not yet been assuaged, or in other words, hadn't come to a closure yet.

Freedom of speech and free expression is one thing, but 'tis an entirely different sort of thing altogether for a needless repetition of an old question. One that had already been expounded on in the past.

Now to put a sense of neutrality to the much awaited answer, may any forumer here answer the question at hand please?

^^^^ But of course, why not?

If the question at hand had already been answered in the past, thence I see no need for further repetition. Not unless one's own personal convictions had not yet been assuaged, or in other words, hadn't come to a closure yet.

Freedom of speech and free expression is one thing, but 'tis an entirely different sort of thing altogether for a needless repetition of an old question. One that had already been expounded on in the past.

Now to put a sense of neutrality to the much awaited answer, may any forumer here answer the question at hand please?

Then I keep my silence. I apologize for disturbing peace here. ;)

unsa man to nga comment ni pilita corales sa show ni sharon about bisayan language?

^^ that there are groups wanting to develop, promote, flourish the cebuano language...the closest i can remember. :lol:

^^ that there are groups wanting to develop, promote, flourish the cebuano language...the closest i can remember. :lol:

no matter how they suppress the cebuano/bisaya language but its people will continue to defy and speak the language anyway. it's but fair that they have to rethink again instead of having pilipino aka tagalog as national language make it bisaya and tagalog as the official languages alongside with english.

visaya is not synonymous with cebuano

cebuano belongs to the language group known as visaya

@Bai Mercato...dili na ko ani nag-butang ha...bag-o ra ni gipost sa akong prof sa dyaryo. Moshare ra ko unta ninyo ug palihog komento mo para akong ipaabot sa iya ang inyo nga opinyon. Daghang salamat. :)

The issues on the use of the word ‘Bisaya’
BRIDGING THE GAP
Henry Funtecha, Ph.D.

When the Spaniards arrived in the Visayas in the 1520s (Magellan expedition) and the 1560s (Legaspi expedition), they widely used the term “Pintados” to refer to the inhabitants. Pintados means the “painted ones” due to the fact that the Bisayans were fond of decorating their bodies with tattoos, both men and women. Not fully understanding what tattoos were, the Spaniards thought the Bisayans indeed painted their bodies with artistic designs. The women had fine and intricate tattoos in their arms and their legs while the men, depending upon their exploits and contributions to the community, had tattoos all over their bodies. In some cases, especially for the brave and courageous ones who had proven their valor in battle, tattoos even covered their faces. The tattoo designs of men were generally of bold geometric patterns or representations of animals. It must be pointed out though that tattooing was not the monopoly of the Bisayans.

Early Spanish writers reported that natives of Albay, Camarines, Catanduanes, and the mountainous sections of northern Luzon also practiced it.

The question now is, at what point of time did the Spaniards begin to refer to the people of the Visayas as “Vizaya” or “Bisaya”? This is still a gray area with regards to the history of the Visayas but, looking at Spanish documents written by the late 1500s and early 1600s, the Spaniards had already shifted to the name “Vizaya” and were already referring to the central islands as “Las Islas de Visayas”. All indications point to the possibility that the name “Bisaya” was already in use prior to the coming of the Spaniards. What probably happened was that the early Spaniards were not yet familiar with the people and the places when they were just new in the country. So, for a while, they used the term “Pintados” but eventually shifted to the word “Vizaya” or “Bisaya” after they had already settled down in the area.

Another important consideration in trying to establish the usage of Bisaya in referring to the people is the fact that the Atis or Negritos of Panay have always been calling the lowlanders as “mga Bisaya”. In addition, there are lots of things in Panay referred to by the people as “bisaya”, like “bisaya nga manok, bisaya nga luy-a, bisaya nga kamatis, bisaya nga ahos, bisaya nga talong, bisaya nga pantat, and many more. The use of the term “Bisaya” is not just confined to local flora and fauna but is also used to refer to traditional processes like “bisaya nga pagpamulong” (use of herbal medicine) and “binisaya nga pamaagi”. Even using Hiligaynon and Kinaray-a in speaking is called “binisaya nga panghambal”. Is it possible also that “Bisaya” means native or local?

The other major issue pertains to the usage of the term “Bisaya” by the Cebuanos. They have expropriated the term as a designation exclusively for the Cebuanos and their language, with the exclusion of the other groups of Bisaya. To the Cebuanos, the other inhabitants of the Visayas are not Bisaya but as Ilonggos in Panay and Negros, Bol-anon in Bohol, and Waray in Samar and Northern Leyte. It is time for scholars and academicians to correct this misconception. The inhabitants of the Visayas are all Bisaya for this has been established as a fact by history.

The Spaniards recognized majority of the inhabitants of the Visayas as one race, except the Atis or Negritos. They generally described the Bisaya as of medium stature, having black hair and dark skin or kayumanggi. Some individual Spanish friars differed from these general characterization and referred to natives in a particular island as being taller, lighter in complexion, brave and more muscular than others, but these were subjective comments which reflected their value judgments and the fact that the Spaniards themselves varied greatly in stature and complexion, as well as physical traits.

The descriptions of the skin pigmentation of the Bisaya by the Spaniards in the 16th century were often contradictory (Scott 1995). The first natives the Spaniards observed were those from Homonhon, Limasawa, and Butuan, and were described by the colonizers as being of medium height and dark-skinned (Ibid).

Fr. Francisco Alcina, on the other hand, said that he did not think that the Bisayans were really that dark, though almost, and that the natives of Leyte and Samar were lighter than those in Davao (Alcina 1668). Alonso Mentrida, however, described the Bisaya “mailum” as a color a bit darker than kayumanggi, though not black like the Ati. From Cebu, Juan de la Isla reported that the natives were darker than the Indios of Mexico (Mentrida 1841).

Of course, it must be borne in mind that, as it is today, the Bisaya and the rest of the Filipinos are not at all of the same shade nor were they all necessarily darker than the Spaniards. In any case, before the development of a colonial mentality, the Bisaya themselves were not impressed by the pale color of the colonizers. In other words, they did not attach a premium on white skin and other features associated with the Caucasian race. The Spaniards were not even perceived as maputi or white, but as “mapuraw”, natural or undyed - meaning, untattooed. And to the Bisaya, because the Spaniards were not into the practice of chewing betel nut, the most distinctive character of these foreigners was their white teeth, a feature shared with animals like dogs, monkeys and pigs.

Source: The News Today (http://www.thenewstoday.info/2009/08/28/the.issues.on.the.use.of.the.word.bisaya.html)

BRIDGING THE GAP
Henry Funtecha, Ph.D.

When the Spaniards arrived in the Visayas in the 1520s (Magellan expedition) and the 1560s (Legaspi expedition), they widely used the term “Pintados” to refer to the inhabitants. Pintados means the “painted ones” due to the fact that the Bisayans were fond of decorating their bodies with tattoos, both men and women. Not fully understanding what tattoos were, the Spaniards thought the Bisayans indeed painted their bodies with artistic designs. The women had fine and intricate tattoos in their arms and their legs while the men, depending upon their exploits and contributions to the community, had tattoos all over their bodies. In some cases, especially for the brave and courageous ones who had proven their valor in battle, tattoos even covered their faces. The tattoo designs of men were generally of bold geometric patterns or representations of animals. It must be pointed out though that tattooing was not the monopoly of the Bisayans. … … … With most of the article, I am quite pleased to note that at least all Visayans are in agreement that we, or our ancestors, were never Muslim (basic fact of pre-Hispanic history) as claimed by some Johnny-come-lately these days who never even grew up in the mother country. We were Pintados and we were nature worshippers, and that is that. :cheers2:

BRIDGING THE GAP
Henry Funtecha, Ph.D.
The other major issue pertains to the usage of the term “Bisaya” by the Cebuanos. They have expropriated the term as a designation exclusively for the Cebuanos and their language, with the exclusion of the other groups of Bisaya. To the Cebuanos, the other inhabitants of the Visayas are not Bisaya but as Ilonggos in Panay and Negros, Bol-anon in Bohol, and Waray in Samar and Northern Leyte. It is time for scholars and academicians to correct this misconception. The inhabitants of the Visayas are all Bisaya for this has been established as a fact by history. At what Scientific point in modern history and with what Scientific data did the illustrious professor come up with such a sweeping and broad condemnation of the Cebuano people, if I may be so bold to ask? :ohno: His is just mere personal convictions and opinions and this paragraph has no scientific merit. I can see the personal prejudice and bias of Sr. Funtecha. “To the Cebuanos” did he say? I am Cebuano and I do recognize the 3 Visayan groups as Visayan. So does majority of my family and speaking for the Cebuano friends that we know of. I cannot speak of course for the rest of the SSC Cebuanos as to their own opinions.

Whilst all the rest of the paragraphs in his article are valid and I am in agreement with those, he cannot just interject his personal opinions within this single paragraph and expect people to swallow it hook, line and sinker – based on the merits of the other paragraphs. It is this single paragraph which is objectionable, to wit.

Perhaps part of the reason for this confusion is Media (again) and its grip on forming public opinions. Case in point, you may have noticed we even have a little battle brewing in another thread amongst “Sugbuanon” and “sugbuanon-related speakers” about this use of Bisaya vis-à-vis Binisaya. I tried explaining it but some are adamant and set in the “old ways” which they say should be left untouched.

I believe it is this use of Binisaya which leads most people to confuse the term with the bigger word Bisaya; hence, the misconception that we Cebuanos are expropriating the term. I believe the scholars and language experts should find a better word or term than “Binisaya”, IMHO of course. :)

@Bai Mercato...dili na ko ani nag-butang ha...bag-o ra ni gipost sa akong prof sa dyaryo. Moshare ra ko unta ninyo ug palihog komento mo para akong ipaabot sa iya ang inyo nga opinyon. Daghang salamat. :)

The issues on the use of the word ‘Bisaya’
BRIDGING THE GAP
Henry Funtecha, Ph.D.

When the Spaniards arrived in the Visayas in the 1520s (Magellan expedition) and the 1560s (Legaspi expedition), they widely used the term “Pintados” to refer to the inhabitants. Pintados means the “painted ones” due to the fact that the Bisayans were fond of decorating their bodies with tattoos, both men and women. Not fully understanding what tattoos were, the Spaniards thought the Bisayans indeed painted their bodies with artistic designs. The women had fine and intricate tattoos in their arms and their legs while the men, depending upon their exploits and contributions to the community, had tattoos all over their bodies. In some cases, especially for the brave and courageous ones who had proven their valor in battle, tattoos even covered their faces. The tattoo designs of men were generally of bold geometric patterns or representations of animals. It must be pointed out though that tattooing was not the monopoly of the Bisayans.

Early Spanish writers reported that natives of Albay, Camarines, Catanduanes, and the mountainous sections of northern Luzon also practiced it.

The question now is, at what point of time did the Spaniards begin to refer to the people of the Visayas as “Vizaya” or “Bisaya”? This is still a gray area with regards to the history of the Visayas but, looking at Spanish documents written by the late 1500s and early 1600s, the Spaniards had already shifted to the name “Vizaya” and were already referring to the central islands as “Las Islas de Visayas”. All indications point to the possibility that the name “Bisaya” was already in use prior to the coming of the Spaniards. What probably happened was that the early Spaniards were not yet familiar with the people and the places when they were just new in the country. So, for a while, they used the term “Pintados” but eventually shifted to the word “Vizaya” or “Bisaya” after they had already settled down in the area.

Another important consideration in trying to establish the usage of Bisaya in referring to the people is the fact that the Atis or Negritos of Panay have always been calling the lowlanders as “mga Bisaya”. In addition, there are lots of things in Panay referred to by the people as “bisaya”, like “bisaya nga manok, bisaya nga luy-a, bisaya nga kamatis, bisaya nga ahos, bisaya nga talong, bisaya nga pantat, and many more. The use of the term “Bisaya” is not just confined to local flora and fauna but is also used to refer to traditional processes like “bisaya nga pagpamulong” (use of herbal medicine) and “binisaya nga pamaagi”. Even using Hiligaynon and Kinaray-a in speaking is called “binisaya nga panghambal”. Is it possible also that “Bisaya” means native or local?

The other major issue pertains to the usage of the term “Bisaya” by the Cebuanos. They have expropriated the term as a designation exclusively for the Cebuanos and their language, with the exclusion of the other groups of Bisaya. To the Cebuanos, the other inhabitants of the Visayas are not Bisaya but as Ilonggos in Panay and Negros, Bol-anon in Bohol, and Waray in Samar and Northern Leyte. It is time for scholars and academicians to correct this misconception. The inhabitants of the Visayas are all Bisaya for this has been established as a fact by history.

The Spaniards recognized majority of the inhabitants of the Visayas as one race, except the Atis or Negritos. They generally described the Bisaya as of medium stature, having black hair and dark skin or kayumanggi. Some individual Spanish friars differed from these general characterization and referred to natives in a particular island as being taller, lighter in complexion, brave and more muscular than others, but these were subjective comments which reflected their value judgments and the fact that the Spaniards themselves varied greatly in stature and complexion, as well as physical traits.

The descriptions of the skin pigmentation of the Bisaya by the Spaniards in the 16th century were often contradictory (Scott 1995). The first natives the Spaniards observed were those from Homonhon, Limasawa, and Butuan, and were described by the colonizers as being of medium height and dark-skinned (Ibid).

Fr. Francisco Alcina, on the other hand, said that he did not think that the Bisayans were really that dark, though almost, and that the natives of Leyte and Samar were lighter than those in Davao (Alcina 1668). Alonso Mentrida, however, described the Bisaya “mailum” as a color a bit darker than kayumanggi, though not black like the Ati. From Cebu, Juan de la Isla reported that the natives were darker than the Indios of Mexico (Mentrida 1841).

Of course, it must be borne in mind that, as it is today, the Bisaya and the rest of the Filipinos are not at all of the same shade nor were they all necessarily darker than the Spaniards. In any case, before the development of a colonial mentality, the Bisaya themselves were not impressed by the pale color of the colonizers. In other words, they did not attach a premium on white skin and other features associated with the Caucasian race. The Spaniards were not even perceived as maputi or white, but as “mapuraw”, natural or undyed - meaning, untattooed. And to the Bisaya, because the Spaniards were not into the practice of chewing betel nut, the most distinctive character of these foreigners was their white teeth, a feature shared with animals like dogs, monkeys and pigs.

Source: The News Today (http://www.thenewstoday.info/2009/08/28/the.issues.on.the.use.of.the.word.bisaya.html)

At what Scientific point in modern history and with what Scientific data did the illustrious professor come up with such a sweeping and broad condemnation of the Cebuano people, if I may be so bold to ask? :ohno: His is just mere personal convictions and opinions and this paragraph has no scientific merit. I can see the personal prejudice and bias of Sr. Funtecha. “To the Cebuanos” did he say? I am Cebuano and I do recognize the 3 Visayan groups as Visayan. So does majority of my family and speaking for the Cebuano friends that we know of. I cannot speak of course for the rest of the SSC Cebuanos as to their own opinions.

Whilst all the rest of the paragraphs in his article are valid and I am in agreement with those, he cannot just interject his personal opinions within this single paragraph and expect people to swallow it hook, line and sinker – based on the merits of the other paragraphs. It is this single paragraph which is objectionable, to wit.

Perhaps part of the reason for this confusion is Media (again) and its grip on forming public opinions. Case in point, you may have noticed we even have a little battle brewing in another thread amongst “Sugbuanon” and “sugbuanon-related speakers” about this use of Bisaya vis-à-vis Binisaya. I tried explaining it but some are adamant and set in the “old ways” which they say should be left untouched.

I believe it is this use of Binisaya which leads most people to confuse the term with the bigger word Bisaya; hence, the misconception that we Cebuanos are expropriating the term. I believe the scholars and language experts should find a better word or term than “Binisaya”, IMHO of course. :)

^^agree...:)

^^ Thanks for the comments @Mercato and @MaoRong. Will send him your comments. I hope we can have also some people from Cebuano Studies Center and people from the heritage forum to have their comment here about this particular topic. It'll be good if there would be exchange of ideas about this so called Visayan origins, myths and race.

Because up to this very day...the question in the academe still lingers...were did really Visayan came from? We have theories, but it couldn't give any concrete answers...

Anyway, I think for the part of the Cebuano-speakers referring as Bisaya...again, this is not just a misconception of Cebuanos alone, IMHO but I think the rest of the Visayans as well...Ilonggos, Warays or even Visayan Mindanaoan. I think everyone refers to anyone who speaks Cebuano as Visayan.

Seemingly there is a unconscious mass mindset on what Visayan is. Let's say for example...last night on Sharon...they say its Visayan or Bisaya night but they've only performed and showed Cebuanos or Cebuano songs...which, for the Tagalogs and non-Visayans (even Ilonggos and Warays perhaps) it is really Bisaya. Maybe you are correct @Bai Mercato referring to the media hype that has been influencing and educating people with this misconception of monopoly of Bisaya. Might be for us here in SSC or some parts of the academe world, they recognize that Bisaya refers collectively for the three languages...however, it may (and possibly is) different from the masa or the general public.

However, I've recognized that the three major languages in the Visayas are collectively known as Bisaya. I think we have to start let the people know about this.

^^ Thanks for the comments @Mercato and @MaoRong. Will send him your comments. I hope we can have also some people from Cebuano Studies Center and people from the heritage forum to have their comment here about this particular topic. It'll be good if there would be exchange of ideas about this so called Visayan origins, myths and race.

Because up to this very day...the question in the academe still lingers...were did really Visayan came from? We have theories, but it couldn't give any concrete answers...

Anyway, I think for the part of the Cebuano-speakers referring as Bisaya...again, this is not just a misconception of Cebuanos alone, IMHO but I think the rest of the Visayans as well...Ilonggos, Warays or even Visayan Mindanaoan. I think everyone refers to anyone who speaks Cebuano as Visayan.

Seemingly there is a unconscious mass mindset on what Visayan is. Let's say for example...last night on Sharon...they say its Visayan or Bisaya night but they've only performed and showed Cebuanos or Cebuano songs...which, for the Tagalogs and non-Visayans (even Ilonggos and Warays perhaps) it is really Bisaya. Maybe you are correct @Bai Mercato referring to the media hype that has been influencing and educating people with this misconception of monopoly of Bisaya. Might be for us here in SSC or some parts of the academe world, they recognize that Bisaya refers collectively for the three languages...however, it may (and possibly is) different from the masa or the general public.

However, I've recognized that the three major languages in the Visayas are collectively known as Bisaya. I think we have to start let the people know about this.

^^you should..lalo na dito sa SSC.some forumers ayaw nila ma accept na yung dialect nila is part of the Visayan group..i am a Waray speaker and i do accept that fact na sub-group lang yung dialect namin...in Leyte we have cebuano speakers and we call them "kana" or cebuano...

My take on this one is not really that from an academic point of view but I would just like to voice it out.

First, I would like to say that this is almost always the problem we come across when we try to define a word which stands for an evolving and dynamic concept. The etymology of the word Bisaya or Visayan (which actually have slightly different meanings from a layman's point of view, i.e. mine) may be an easier one to answer compared to answering the question "What does Bisaya/Visayan mean?". I would agree that Cebuanos often use other words like Ilonggo, Waray, Bol-anon, etc. but I don't think it is a mutually exclusive categorization with Visayan. I think that the use of those other words arises from a functional need to identify other Visayan people from each other and from Cebuanos ourselves. I mean, and I make it clear that this is from my own understanding, I have this construct in my head that there are Cebuanos, Bol-anons, Warays and Ilonggos or Hiligaynons but that these are a subset of a group of people known as Visayans/Bisaya.

But wait! This is just one of the possible constructs that exist among the psyche of the Visayans. Other people in the Visayas might think that really, Cebuanos=Bisaya, and other Visayans are not Bisaya, and this is not surprising because of the different circumstances of the different subgroups of Visayans. In particular, from my experience in Dolores, Eastern Samar, people there refer to Waray as Binisaya which distinguishes it from Tagalog for instance. They might have a different concept of what Bisaya is. And so might other Visayans. Heck, even within Cebu I think people would have different constructs when asked what Bisaya is.

My point boils down to 2 basic things:
1. Why do we get so scared if the word Bisaya catches different meanings? Do we need to impose a common definition that everyone should strictly adhere to? Can't we live with the reality that a word that is evolving and part of a living language can have different meanings for different people, who experience existence under different circumstances?

2. When we write stuff like the article above (especially by some Ph.D.) should we generalize that this concept (for example, that Cebuanos use Bisaya to refer just to themselves) is held true by all Cebuanos without relevant research? I believe it is a very testable socio-anthropological construct with the right research instrument and design. And as I have argued, many possible constructs might be existent. If there is no such study that verified this, the author's argument will become just an opinion. And no matter how expert an opinion is, it is still secondary to the information gained from a good research. Rather than listen to expert opinions like this (which reeks of bias), show me a study testing the different concepts and constructs of representative sample of the Visayan population.

I would especially like to nitpick this part:
The other major issue pertains to the usage of the term “Bisaya” by the Cebuanos. They have expropriated the term as a designation exclusively for the Cebuanos and their language, with the exclusion of the other groups of Bisaya. To the Cebuanos, the other inhabitants of the Visayas are not Bisaya but as Ilonggos in Panay and Negros, Bol-anon in Bohol, and Waray in Samar and Northern Leyte. It is time for scholars and academicians to correct this misconception. The inhabitants of the Visayas are all Bisaya for this has been established as a fact by history.

Bai Berns, please ask him what his basis is for this argument. If he does not have a solid basis for his assertion (a study testing the said construct), I guess he should take his own advice when he said that

It is time for scholars and academicians to correct this misconception

By the way, I hope we can have other forumers from Cebuano speaking regions such as Bohol, Southern Leyte, Negros Oriental, Northern Mindanao and Davao.

It would be fun and also educational to discuss the variations between each Cebuano dialects. We can learn why, how and when did we have these variations.

For example, in CdeO and Dumaguete, they are using "tsada" instead of "nindot". Can somebody explain why?

At what Scientific point in modern history and with what Scientific data did the illustrious professor come up with such a sweeping and broad condemnation of the Cebuano people, if I may be so bold to ask? :ohno: His is just mere personal convictions and opinions and this paragraph has no scientific merit. I can see the personal prejudice and bias of Sr. Funtecha. “To the Cebuanos” did he say? I am Cebuano and I do recognize the 3 Visayan groups as Visayan. So does majority of my family and speaking for the Cebuano friends that we know of. I cannot speak of course for the rest of the SSC Cebuanos as to their own opinions.

Whilst all the rest of the paragraphs in his article are valid and I am in agreement with those, he cannot just interject his personal opinions within this single paragraph and expect people to swallow it hook, line and sinker – based on the merits of the other paragraphs. It is this single paragraph which is objectionable, to wit.

Perhaps part of the reason for this confusion is Media (again) and its grip on forming public opinions. Case in point, you may have noticed we even have a little battle brewing in another thread amongst “Sugbuanon” and “sugbuanon-related speakers” about this use of Bisaya vis-à-vis Binisaya. I tried explaining it but some are adamant and set in the “old ways” which they say should be left untouched.

I believe it is this use of Binisaya which leads most people to confuse the term with the bigger word Bisaya; hence, the misconception that we Cebuanos are expropriating the term. I believe the scholars and language experts should find a better word or term than “Binisaya”, IMHO of course. :)

The issue at hand reeks of insecurity once again from certain corners but anyway, as for me, Bisaya refers to the people coming from the Visayas and it doesn't refer to Cebuanos alone.

Bai Mercato, you are right, the Media is to blame for this confusion. I guess it is about time that this has to be clarified. I would obviously refer to myself as Cebuano, to be specific that I come from Cebu and I speak the language and not just the generic term Bisaya lest I might be accused of linguistic imperialism or whatever other (creative-minded) people may label it.

^^ I have always refer myself as Cebuano speak but from Davao. I do agree that it makes a lot of confusion when people just use the term Bisaya, Binisaya or Bisdak. :D

By the way, I hope we can have other forumers from Cebuano speaking regions such as Bohol, Southern Leyte, Negros Oriental, Northern Mindanao and Davao.

It would be fun and also educational to discuss the variations between each Cebuano dialects. We can learn why, how and when did we have these variations.

For example, in CdeO and Dumaguete, they are using "tsada" instead of "nindot". Can somebody explain why?

I agree! I am from Davao! In my family we don't use nindot but guapo. I would never hear this from any of my relatives unless they are friends or relatives from the Visayas. :) Just like I always hear our Cebuano friends using alegre, monja, etc.

Also, the tsada comes from Spanish influence. Whatever Spanish influence in the area usually becomes the norm only to that particular region.

Ben is also not sold on placing “Tsada” in the fiesta name because he believes it” too “generic”, whatever that means. I think Ben is just too shy to say in public the widely held misconception that “Tsada” is “swardspeak” or the language of gays.

Not so, says Nono Montalvan, Ed” younger brother and a noted local historian. In fact, Nono said “Tsada” comes from the Spanish word fachada, or “facade.” “Tiene facha” thus refers to someone who has “form” or in teenspeak, “Japorms”.

Source: http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/13115

^^Very nice insight on the word "tsada" Senyor Animo...Wish more of us, Cebuanos, would join in our discussion about our language.

The endpoint would be this in my opinion...there is a general misconception going on in the word or usage of Visayan/Bisaya. That's the fact and I don't think we need to argue about this because it reeks insecurity or what...no. None at all.

That's the issue, what we can do is to move forward. Educate the right concept, not just within the academe or within this online community, but also to the general public so as to not induce Cebuano as an hegemonic language and others are subversive in the concept of "Bisaya." We have to think on how to correct this general misconception and stereotyping.

I still believe in the dynamics of language. It evolves.

i think one way of solving this problem, since all visayan-speaking people is under the umbrella of the largest language group called "visaya", is the use of binomial nomenclature as the formal system of naming, the generic-specific naming i.e. visaya cebuano, visaya hiligaynon, visaya waray, visaya dabawnon, etc.

The endpoint would be this in my opinion...there is a general misconception going on in the word or usage of Visayan/Bisaya. That's the fact and I don't think we need to argue about this because it reeks insecurity or what...no. None at all.

That's the issue, what we can do is to move forward. Educate the right concept, not just within the academe or within this online community, but also to the general public so as to not induce Cebuano as an hegemonic language and others are subversive in the concept of "Bisaya." We have to think on how to correct this general misconception and stereotyping.

I still believe in the dynamics of language. It evolves.

That was the problem bai Berns, in the very first place, what is your basis in saying that there is a msiconception? Were there any surveys, studies done confirming and supporting this assertion?

We have to think on how to correct this general misconception and stereotyping.


See, you are already convicting people without sufficient basis. What, from your own observation? Is that valid? You want to correct a general misconception and stereotyping which we are not yet sure of. What if this is a misconception of a few? Before we need to correct a GENERAL misconception and strereotyping, we have to be convinced first, empirically that it exists and that, as you say, it is a GENERAL thing!

Just so you know, I am also interested whether there really is that misconception or none at all, or whether it is particular to certain regions (i.e. Cebuanos) or common to all Visayans, and even outside of the Visayas. This makes up for a good study. We can draw certain hypotheses you want to test and then the concept and design of the study, then make and test the instrument and so on.

And then, based on the results of the study, maybe we can all chart a course of action--whether you need to educate people more about the concept of the Bisaya, or whether there isn't any need after all.

The difference is that you have made a judgment that it exists from the very start. I wouldn't say it is insecurity but it is a clear bias (Oh c'mon, you know what biases are and how universal these are). Di ba?

^^you should..lalo na dito sa SSC.some forumers ayaw nila ma accept na yung dialect nila is part of the Visayan group..i am a Waray speaker and i do accept that fact na sub-group lang yung dialect namin...in Leyte we have cebuano speakers and we call them "kana" or cebuano...

can you clear it pls. bai. know first the definition of language and dialect before one can accept the realities of life. you mention waray as a dialect, im safe to say here that no its not. its a language my friend. different from cebuano or anything else for that matter. I wouldn't tire myself educating people here that visaya is composed of three major languages: hiligaynon, cebuano and waray together with their respective dialects. other languages that have similarities with any of these 3 main visayan languages are considered dialects of the mother language. e.g CEBUANO (language) BOHOLANO (cebuano dialect) KANA (cebuano dialect) BANTAYANON (cebuano dialect), etc. and other cebuano dialects in mindanao.

can you clear it pls. bai. know first the definition of language and dialect before one can accept the realities of life. you mention waray as a dialect, im safe to say here that no its not. its a language my friend. different from cebuano or anything else for that matter. I wouldn't tire myself educating people here that visaya is composed of three major languages: hiligaynon, cebuano and waray together with their respective dialects. other languages that have similarities with any of these 3 main visayan languages are considered dialects of the mother language. e.g CEBUANO (language) BOHOLANO (cebuano dialect) KANA (cebuano dialect) BANTAYANON (cebuano dialect), etc. and other cebuano dialects in mindanao.

^^so be it...sorry got mixed up...i totally agree with you and habagat central regarding this issue...:)

The issue at hand reeks of insecurity once again from certain corners but anyway, as for me, Bisaya refers to the people coming from the Visayas and it doesn't refer to Cebuanos alone.

Bai Mercato, you are right, the Media is to blame for this confusion. I guess it is about time that this has to be clarified. I would obviously refer to myself as Cebuano, to be specific that I come from Cebu and I speak the language and not just the generic term Bisaya lest I might be accused of linguistic imperialism or whatever other (creative-minded) people may label it. I am in agreement with you once again, Bai, as always… Sus no? When had we ever diverged in opinions?? :lol:

However, we must also rise to the occasion since a challenging question had been posed. Now is the argument valid or not valid? The argument seems to be heading towards a generalization that majority of Cebuanos are prone to exclusivity in the use of the word Bisaya. That is something both respondents and plaintiffs have to address, too.

The endpoint would be this in my opinion...there is a general misconception going on in the word or usage of Visayan/Bisaya. That's the fact and I don't think we need to argue about this because it reeks insecurity or what...no. None at all.

That's the issue, what we can do is to move forward. Educate the right concept, not just within the academe or within this online community, but also to the general public so as to not induce Cebuano as an hegemonic language and others are subversive in the concept of "Bisaya." We have to think on how to correct this general misconception and stereotyping.

I still believe in the dynamics of language. It evolves. Quite right, language evolves. Howbeit in the overall scheme of Natural Selection and Evolution, a huge part of this metamorphosis also comes from having a huge population since it creates the biggest impact on a language, on any language for that matter. This Natural Selection is more powerful notwithstanding heavy government and/ or media intervention. Though we already know how superficial both government and media can be on implementing policies, too. ;)

Case in point, even with heavy American and Philippine gov't intervention, English did not manage to wipe out nor diminish any Philippine native language because it went against the grain of natural selection/ evolution. The forces of evolution proved stronger. :)

Theoretically, if they (govt and media) were to counteract what you and the professor calls as hegemonic or expropriation, respectively, the influence of both gov’t and media will pale in comparison to Natural Selection, a huge population of Cebuanos. I am not being biased for Cebuano because I am one, I am merely stating one facet of natural selection. Except, of course, if any government there can match the grit and determination of a Deng Xiaoping, Hu Jintao, Ho Chi Minh or Lee Kuan Yew; But I’m afraid we don’t have any leader of that caliber.

On Natural Selection = For instance, if we have 700 African elephants and mix them on a reservation we can call Mindanao with 400 Indian elephants and 200 Thai elephants, after 1 century we will have a mestizo caste of elephants in direct ratio and proportion to the original numbers of their ancestors. One cannot find an elephant with equal proportions of African, Indian and Thai blood. That is too idealistic and goes contrary to Natural Selection. :D

But I digress with your term “general misconception”. Because in all my years growing up in Cebu and interacting with just about all the friends and acquaintances I could lay my hands on over the years, I cannot recall any single one making such a big fuss over that word Bisaya and an expropriation, or any one from my circles claiming “exclusivity” to that word.

i think one way of solving this problem, since all visayan-speaking people is under the umbrella of the largest language group called "visaya", is the use of binomial nomenclature as the formal system of naming, the generic-specific naming i.e. visaya cebuano, visaya hiligaynon, visaya waray, visaya dabawnon, etc. Now that is a good idea. A very good idea. A very, very good idea, indeed. It’s like differentiating between bahasa melayu and bahasa indonesia. Both bahasa but both distinct. They don’t fight silly over the word Bahasa. :lol:
Same with us – all bisaya but all distinct. :lol:

That was the problem bai Berns, in the very first place, what is your basis in saying that there is a msiconception? Were there any surveys, studies done confirming and supporting this assertion?
See, you are already convicting people without sufficient basis. What, from your own observation? Is that valid? You want to correct a general misconception and stereotyping which we are not yet sure of. What if this is a misconception of a few? Before we need to correct a GENERAL misconception and strereotyping, we have to be convinced first, empirically that it exists and that, as you say, it is a GENERAL thing!

Just so you know, I am also interested whether there really is that misconception or none at all, or whether it is particular to certain regions (i.e. Cebuanos) or common to all Visayans, and even outside of the Visayas. This makes up for a good study. We can draw certain hypotheses you want to test and then the concept and design of the study, then make and test the instrument and so on.

And then, based on the results of the study, maybe we can all chart a course of action--whether you need to educate people more about the concept of the Bisaya, or whether there isn't any need after all.

The difference is that you have made a judgment that it exists from the very start. I wouldn't say it is insecurity but it is a clear bias (Oh c'mon, you know what biases are and how universal these are). Di ba? In complete agreement with you, bro. Now a more Scientific approach is needed to identify the problem, if there are valid grounds for them or not. Only then can we find permanent solutions to that problem and solve it with surgical precision. :)

Until such time, accusations of expropriation or hegemony can only be taken with a grain of salt.

^^ To be honest, I couldn't divulge in too much of academic standards on much. And as much as I would like to assert my opinion but...let's just be simple...ask people surrounding us on what do they think about "Bisaya" or "Visayan?" and they might probably get a similar or common answer.

Ask non-Visayans themselves what do they think about the term and what is the "Visayan" language. Let's be at laymen's term here so that people in general would understand more...rather than speaking too academically.


And as for me...I have enough arguments whether Cebuano has "exclusivity" or having a misconception but the challenge here is...on how to re-educate our fellow kinsmen on the right concept of "Visayan/Bisaya?" If we divulge to much on the cause, it may takes us years...or even perhaps even decades just to convince everyone that we are right and they were wrong? What's the point of it?

It will only create a division instead of a Visayan unity. I bet not even of the three major Visayan languages or ethno-linguistic groups would impose their language like on how Tagalog is to Filipino right?

For me, the solution is simple...let's start acting by at least educating people beside us or what in our own little way that "Bisaya/Visayan" is NOT an exclusive property of Cebuanos alone. I think I wouldn't explain further on how to do it. It's up to us on how to start it.

If you still see this post on other light, then probably you didn't get my point.


------
And regarding bias...let's be honest, we all have biases in our ideas and our lives. I'll be a hypocrite if I said that I don't have my own ideas and beliefs...In historiography, what distinguishes a chronicler from a historian? As Dante would said, "all those neutral go to hell." :D

Bai, simple ra man to ang akoang giingon for all the little jargon thrown here and there for my lack of brains (smart people can simplify everything).

Don't fix it if it ain't broke.

Your point, Prof. Author's point: It IS broken! Let us all fix it!

Me, Mercato, Ang Bantayanon et al: Are you sure it is broken? Let us all find out first IF it is indeed broken. Why do you say it is broken?

You: No it doesn't matter if its broken or not, let's fix it! Educate the people!
Oh but wait, I think it is broken, and go ask the people around if it is broken..(I'm sure they would agree with me..) Everyone knows its broken.

Me: Are you sure? Why don't you go one further step and do a systematic survey and sampling, if everyone really thinks it IS broken. Because if it isn't broken, there is no need to fix it.

You: No, it is important that we fix it! Educate the people!



Okay, that was a caricature of the whole argument but it does simplify things a bit.


And as you have said:
To be honest, I couldn't divulge in too much of academic standards on much. And as much as I would like to assert my opinion but...let's just be simple...ask people surrounding us on what do they think about "Bisaya" or "Visayan?" and they might probably get a similar or common answer.

Ask non-Visayans themselves what do they think about the term and what is the "Visayan" language. Let's be at laymen's term here so that people in general would understand more...rather than speaking too academically.

Exactly! Ask people around if really Cebuanos are using Visayan exclusively for themselves! That is a survey, a study, a research. For all we know, what you're saying might be true! But a survey is not a high-brow thing of scientific snobbishness (if there is such a word). It is simply a means of finding out the TRUTH! It tells you how many people to ask, who to ask, how many per province, per population, how to get a fair sampling.

It is important because it gives our assertions weight and credibility. So we can rise above our opinions and presumptions (our so called personal observations) and elevate it to a certain level of OBJECTIVITY. Beyond your ,and my, biases. So that it is FAIR to both sides.

^^ Because if you believe that there is nothing broken then so be it. I believe it otherwise.

It's my opinion and it's my belief. So I don't think we should have to argue which is broken or whether it is broken or not...

In your POV, its not broken. In my POV, it is. So why bother? I respect that PoV. I understand your point but you don't understand mine or something...

Let's just respect our differences. My main motive here is to share this and you commenting on the author's writing...not sowing differences or even hatred. But beyond it, personally, it's a done deal. I would prefer in educating people...reeducating people about what I believe "is a misconception" on my own PoV.


And please...do avoid personal remarks like using first person such as "my lack of brains." I don't go down below the belt. I just hope we don't get personal here...otherwise, I will just keep my silence and let you all be at peace.

Exactly! Ask people around if really Cebuanos are using Visayan exclusively for themselves! That is a survey, a study, a research. For all we know, what you're saying might be true! But a survey is not a high-brow thing of scientific snobbishness (if there is such a word). It is simply a means of finding out the TRUTH! It tells you how many people to ask, who to ask, how many per province, per population, how to get a fair sampling.

It is important because it gives our assertions weight and credibility. So we can rise above our opinions and presumptions (our so called personal observations) and elevate it to a certain level of OBJECTIVITY. Beyond your ,and my, biases. So that it is FAIR to both sides.

Then go ahead. I think we can do it but its better if we can have a Pulse Asia survey or academic survey or something. Its for the betterment I guess although I don't have money to pay for commissioning a survey or creating my own survey.

As far as my opinion goes...I believe there is something "broken." But my opinion doesn't necessarily mean it's a fact. That is why an argument has to be analyzed...unfortunately, I don't have time to do research.

That is why I put my sentences with "IMO" or "IMHO" to denote that its my opinion and not a fact. Which may be true or false...

^^ Because if you believe that there is nothing broken then so be it. I believe it otherwise.

It's my opinion and it's my belief. So I don't think we should have to argue which is broken or whether it is broken...

In your POV, its not broken. In my POV, it is. So why bother? I understand your point but you don't understand mine or something...

Let's just respect our differences. My main motive here is to share this and you commenting on the author's writing...not sowing differences or even hatred. But beyond it, personally, it's a done deal. I would prefer in educating people...reeducating people about what I believe "is a misconception" on my own PoV.


And please...do avoid personal remarks like using first person such as "my lack of brains." I don't go down below the belt. I just hope we don't get personal here...otherwise, I will just keep my silence and let you all be at peace.

No, bai berns don't keep your silence. You misunderstood me. This is healthy debate as far as im concerned. I know you are not making a personal comment towards me. I said for "my lack of brains" I wasn't able to use simpler terms because a smarter guy would be able to explain things without the need to use jargon (Jesus and the parables). So don't get irked out because that was without sarcasm.

I never said it is not broken, or it is broken. My point is we don't know enough yet to say which is which (I have stated that personally, I don't think Cebuanos own exclusive rights to be called Bisaya, but that I cannot speak for all others). And that is why I was urging us all to suspend our judgment and avoid making sweeping statements while there is no survey done or any relevant research.

No, bai berns don't keep your silence. You misunderstood me. This is healthy debate as far as im concerned. I know you are not making a personal comment towards me. I said for "my lack of brains" I wasn't able to use simpler terms because a smarter guy would be able to explain things without the need to use jargon (Jesus and the parables). So don't get irked out because that was without sarcasm.

I never said it is not broken, or it is broken. My point is we don't know enough yet to say which is which. And that is why I was urging us all to suspend our judgment and avoid making sweeping statements while there is no survey done or any relevant research.

Which in reality, we have our own sweeping idiosyncrasies or stereotyping in the general public. As far as I am to be asked personally, I could only say on my own opinion...otherwise I would state it as a fact if I have or we have the time to conduct a survey of sorts.

My intention here is not to put salt on a wound...but to put betadine on it.

Mga higalang Mercato ug Bakasaurus, it is useless to argue.
Let's not argue anymore. Let's just let it be.
If other people perceive Cebuanos differently then so be it.
Let's continue calling ourselves Cebuanos and Bisayans but
let's not argue with people with different realities -- let's just
allow them to wallow in unfounded insecurity kay kapoy
na ning sige tag tuyok-tuyok.

Mga higalang Mercato ug Bakasaurus, it is useless to argue.
Let's not argue anymore. Let's just let it be.
If other people perceive Cebuanos differently then so be it.
Let's continue calling ourselves Cebuanos and Bisayans but
let's not argue with people with different realities -- let's just
allow them to wallow in unfounded insecurity kay kapoy
na ning sige tag tuyok-tuyok.

@Dale...nganu man ibutang mo ni sa colour nga "insecurity?" From Mercato and Bakasaurus and the rest, I take it professionally. But to be honest, taking it from you...it's different...somehow I take "insecurity" personally.

I have no intention of putting colour on this...pero the word that you used really hurts. It's really really personal.

Thanks na lang...morag dili na ka moaccommodate sa opinion sa imo mga kauban og higala. Daghang salamat Dale.

Ug sa tanan...pasaylo. Maghilum na lang ako...mao man inyo pagtulok sa ako diri...a devil's advocate and an insecure person...naglain na jud akong panan-awon. I think that would be beneficial to all just to forget the argument.

Well, sorry if it hurts you.
Mercato, Baka and I was just telling you
that you're wrong but you insist. Then so
be it. Ayaw pangluod gud. Binata kaayo nang
magsige tag pasangil sa uban nga dili tinuod.
Insisting on something that occurs as a figment
of imagination is an insecurity. Sorry but
sometimes truth hurts. But, I give you my hand
in peace..

Well, sorry if it hurts you.
Mercato, Baka and I was just telling you
that you're wrong but you insist. Then so
be it. Ayaw pangluod gud. Binata kaayo nang
magsige tag pasangil sa uban nga dili tinuod.
Insisting on something that occurs as a figment
of imagination is an insecurity. Sorry but
sometimes truth hurts. But, I give you my hand
in peace..

Dale, because that's what you see...I am wrong.
I see it differently...but I don't see evil in Cebuano or putting the context of hegemony in a bad light..that's my own personal opinion.

That is why I am direct to my point that there is no need for argument. Let's do something to correct the mistakes or whether there is a mistake or misconception or not.

I don't declare anything as facts...i declare them as my personal opinion, Dale because I don't have substantial evidence to prove myself right. And I never said that I am right or you are wrong or vice versa. I never tried to convince people here that I am right or otherwise. That is why I emphasized that my opinions are just opinions and not facts per se.

So medyo nasakitan ko sa imo giingon nga "insecure" mi. Dili. Wala ko intensyon manghatag gubot diri.

I respect your opinion from the very start. I never argued with you people that you are all wrong but you condemned me that I am wrong because of what I believe is wrong in your PoV. I understood you all...I dunno why people would refer to my opinion as something factual?

For this, I think posting here or stating my opinion are not welcome. For this, I will silence myself.

Dale, because that's what you see...I am wrong.
I see it differently...but I don't see evil in Cebuano or putting the context of hegemony in a bad light..that's my own personal opinion.

That is why I am direct to my point that there is no need for argument. Let's do something to correct the mistakes or whether there is a mistake or misconception or not.

I don't declare anything as facts...i declare them as my personal opinion, Dale because I don't have substantial evidence to prove myself right. And I never said that I am right or you are wrong. That is why I emphasized that my opinions are just opinions and not facts per se.

So medyo nasakitan ko sa imo giingon nga "insecure" mi. Dili. Wala ko intensyon manghatag gubot diri.

Mercato and Baka already answered you.
But you continue to insist. To be honest,
nganong dak-on pa man na nato ang bahin
anang Bisaya when it's not an issue to us
Cebuanos. We don't care about it. Anyone
who likes it can have it because we are
already secure with ourselves.

Hahay, pareha ra na sa issue sa Queen City.
For me, I and probably for most Cebuano
forumers here, we don't really care if we're
Queen City or not because I think that's
so medieval and soo passe.

Kinsa may gikumpetensyahan sa mga Sugbuanon
ba? We are on our own. We work on our own.
What Cebu has achieved that's because of
the Cebuanos. We don't owe it to other
groups. But, I guess, we don't really have
to brag about what Cebu has achieved in
fact, I have always been vocal about
Cebu helping other provinces so that
WE can all achieve progress and no one
will be left behind.

Anyway, I don't have to say a litany.
I guess I've already said enough.

Mercato and Baka already answered you.
But you continue to insist. To be honest,
nganong dak-on pa man na nato ang bahin
anang Bisaya when it's not an issue to us
Cebuanos. We don't care about it. Anyone
who likes it can have it because we are
already secure with ourselves.

Hahay, pareha ra na sa issue sa Queen City.
For me, I and probably for most Cebuano
forumers here, we don't really care if we're
Queen City or not because I think that's
so medieval and soo passe.

Kinsa may gikumpetensyahan sa mga Sugbuanon
ba? We are on our own. We work on our own.
What Cebu has achieved that's because of
the Cebuanos. We don't owe it to other
groups. But, I guess, we don't really have
to brag about what Cebu has achieved in
fact, I have always been vocal about
Cebu helping other provinces so that
WE can all achieve progress and no one
will be left behind.

Anyway, I don't have to say a litany.
I guess I've already said enough.

Anyway, I give up. It's your thread anyway and I'm really am playing devil's advocate here as a perspective to most of you guys here...

I concur. I too have said enough for tonight and perhaps for a long time.

Please do enjoy the rest of the day and weeks to come. :wave:

Anyway, I give up. It's your thread anyway and I'm really am playing devil's advocate here as a perspective to most of you guys here...

I concur. I too have said enough for tonight and perhaps for a long time.

Bitaw. Next time when you come, write something
that can be discussed in a friendly manner -- not
something that can inflame other people.

Pareha ra na ba nga ang mga taw diri dili manulod sa
ubang hilo unya lain ang ipanulti. Kung mosulod
mi og laing hilo, dili man mi manulti og butang nga
makapasilo o kaha makapabokal sa dugo sa ubang
tawo. Mao manay sakto nga pamatasan siguro
nga angay batunan nato tanan.

We should respect diversity by keeping mum
on certain things that could possibly incite
other people to hate. We should have more
foresight and practice civility. That's very
easy. I guess our parents taught us that.

Thank you Bernie unya ayaw pangluod gud.
Himuoa lang ang gibuhat pud diri sa uban para
kitang tanan magpuyo sa kalinaw ug kahiusa.

I really can not hold it, please let me speak... :)

All i can say, is that, Cebuanos (all Cebuanos from Central Visayas, Eastern Leyte, Northern Mindanao, Davao and Zambo Pen) did not/do not/will not have any plan of owning the tag "Bisaya". Is there any ads paid by the Cebuanos that brainwash the whole of Philippines that Cebuano is equal to Bisaya?

If there is a misconception between Cebuano/Bisaya, it is because of the natural selection theory, as pointed out by @Mercato.

It is really very unfair for somebody to accuse us about the Bisaya/Cebuano issue.

We don't have plan to lord over this country. We just want to co-exist in harmony/equally with the other Filipinos.

That's all...Thank you!

Was I late for the party?? I was multitasking on something... :lol: anyway, here's my own litany and hopefully my last for the week since I need to enjoy my travel, no? and not get stuck behind this screen... bahala na'g naghibat akong english... for now... :lol:
Then go ahead. I think we can do it but its better if we can have a Pulse Asia survey or academic survey or something. Its for the betterment I guess although I don't have money to pay for commissioning a survey or creating my own survey.

As far as my opinion goes...I believe there is something "broken." But my opinion doesn't necessarily mean it's a fact. That is why an argument has to be analyzed...unfortunately, I don't have time to do research.

That is why I put my sentences with "IMO" or "IMHO" to denote that its my opinion and not a fact. Which may be true or false... Now is not the time to be hedging because at the onset it was you who did raise the issue to an academic level by bringing up the good professor. As I had told bai bantayanon, questions like these need to be answered too. I can see this will be a recurring question since obviously for some, this issue remains without a closure.

Like bakasaurus had said, you and the professor had already arrived at the conclusion that such is the depth and seriousness of this malaise. Most of us here were not aware of it at the time. Since the professor seems to have a PhD and I am sure you can form a group of aggrieved Visayans, I think it wise for your group to conduct a scientific study. One that would be tangible for everyone to see and learn from, since this is clearly an issue for linguists and language experts.

Now, I do understand where you are coming from or what you are trying to say. To cut the chase, you demand equal time share and equal air time for the word Bisaya. So be it then. Howbeit that right had always been yours since the dawn of the Age of Exploration.

What I do not know of course is how and when this originated from. How were you like in the days you hobnobbed with the SSC crowd in Cebu, or with the general population in Cebu. Did anyone mistreat you as such, I mean slanted toward those issues whereof you speak? Or did you get this bug from someone in UP Diliman?

I believe 100 years from now the hotbed of Visayan fusion will be Mindanao where the 3 meet and gel. I had already described the scenario of Natural selection with the 3 species of elephants. Or if the government and media is up to it and they have the resources and willpower for it, then why not? I’ve nothing against it, if done the proper, academic or scientific way.

But if you expect me to go about describing myself as only Cebuano, and then avoiding the word Bisaya like the plague and having to be apologetic each and every time for being “under that Visayan umbrella” or having the appendage Bisaya, now that is not going to be very practical nor street smart, correct? That ain’t gonna happen. :lol:

I do not have to go around the globe apologizing to each Waray and Ylonggo and non-Visayan Filipino I meet for being BOTH Bisaya and a Cebuano “hegemonist”. :lol:That is ludicrous since I had never felt selfish with that word, not even the hegemony part. I had always taken it for granted that the word applied to everyone from the Visayas. Not until I met people like you and the professor.

Notwithstanding this new issue, I would be amenable to a scientific study, survey or poll sponsored any government or media agency. You need not do it alone since you can always find like minded people and form your own group or club. Now that seems a start for your cause, now wouldn’t it? :D

bai shodi mangaway. no harm done man.
i've already resigned to 3 facts with this argument a lot of times.

1.) some non-cebuano visayans (ilonggo and waray) dissent calling themselves bisaya, referring it to mean cebuano only.
2.) some non-cebuano visayans (ilonggo and waray) dissent of having visayan being exclusively referred to mean cebuano.
3.) some cebuanos can adapt attitudes to contention 1 or two.

but point is. it doesnt matter, where all one big family. we can call our language gibberish and fight with every skin and bone about why it wasn't blahlbahblabish. we got bigger fish to fry.... tagalog hegemony man.

bai shodi mangaway. no harm done man.
i've already resigned to 3 facts with this argument a lot of times.

1.) some non-cebuano visayans (ilonggo and waray) dissent calling themselves bisaya, referring it to mean cebuano only.
2.) some non-cebuano visayans (ilonggo and waray) dissent of having visayan being exclusively referred to mean cebuano.
3.) some cebuanos can adapt attitudes to contention 1 or two.

but point is. it doesnt matter, where all one big family. we can call our language gibberish and fight with every skin and bone about why it wasn't blahlbahblabish. we got bigger fish to fry.... tagalog hegemony man.

Hahaha. Now, that's real hegemony! Oh wait, is that just my opinion?:lol:

I am in agreement with you once again, Bai, as always… Sus no? When had we ever diverged in opinions?? :lol:

However, we must also rise to the occasion since a challenging question had been posed. Now is the argument valid or not valid? The argument seems to be heading towards a generalization that majority of Cebuanos are prone to exclusivity in the use of the word Bisaya. That is something both respondents and plaintiffs have to address, too.

sakto! we can't blame our ancestors for making cebuano exclusive for bisaya bec. kahibalo man sad ta na saunang panahon, wala'y maayong educar ang mga taw. karon, its our responsibility to correct the misconception but to tell you honestly, dili sayon ichange ang perception labi na kung naandan na. diba naa na sa principle sa organization that change is inevitable but change takes a lot of time to become an acceptable part of the group, it takes a lot of time and effort before it is being accepted 100%. so kita diri sa SSC, we wanted to change the misconception pero it would take us a lot of time pa for people all over the country to accept that bisaya is not entirely cebuano.

bai shodi mangaway. no harm done man.
i've already resigned to 3 facts with this argument a lot of times.

1.) some non-cebuano visayans (ilonggo and waray) dissent calling themselves bisaya, referring it to mean cebuano only.
2.) some non-cebuano visayans (ilonggo and waray) dissent of having visayan being exclusively referred to mean cebuano.
3.) some cebuanos can adapt attitudes to contention 1 or two.


i agree with this. daghan mga ilonggos and warays dili sad ganahan tawagon og bisaya unlike bai @berns na proud kaayo na bisayang ilonggo siya. maong lisod gyud ichange ang concept bec. mismong mga ubang bisaya na non-cebuano dili sila amendable na tawagon og bisaya bec. they were already used being referred to as ilonggos and warays.

pero in fairness, nabanhaw nasad ni ang thread! :lol::lol::D

Guys we should stop arguing this inutile topic. naay tagalog nga angay balikason..dapat kita magkahiusa in one name, visaya

as i have said sa ubang thread
cebuano is not synonymous with visaya

cebuano belongs to the largest language group in the philippines known as visaya

Was I late for the party?? I was multitasking on something... :lol: anyway, here's my own litany and hopefully my last for the week since I need to enjoy my travel, no? and not get stuck behind this screen... bahala na'g naghibat akong english... for now... :lol:
Now is not the time to be hedging because at the onset it was you who did raise the issue to an academic level by bringing up the good professor. As I had told bai bantayanon, questions like these need to be answered too. I can see this will be a recurring question since obviously for some, this issue remains without a closure.

Like bakasaurus had said, you and the professor had already arrived at the conclusion that such is the depth and seriousness of this malaise. Most of us here were not aware of it at the time. Since the professor seems to have a PhD and I am sure you can form a group of aggrieved Visayans, I think it wise for your group to conduct a scientific study. One that would be tangible for everyone to see and learn from, since this is clearly an issue for linguists and language experts.

Now, I do understand where you are coming from or what you are trying to say. To cut the chase, you demand equal time share and equal air time for the word Bisaya. So be it then. Howbeit that right had always been yours since the dawn of the Age of Exploration.

What I do not know of course is how and when this originated from. How were you like in the days you hobnobbed with the SSC crowd in Cebu, or with the general population in Cebu. Did anyone mistreat you as such, I mean slanted toward those issues whereof you speak? Or did you get this bug from someone in UP Diliman?

I believe 100 years from now the hotbed of Visayan fusion will be Mindanao where the 3 meet and gel. I had already described the scenario of Natural selection with the 3 species of elephants. Or if the government and media is up to it and they have the resources and willpower for it, then why not? I’ve nothing against it, if done the proper, academic or scientific way.

But if you expect me to go about describing myself as only Cebuano, and then avoiding the word Bisaya like the plague and having to be apologetic each and every time for being “under that Visayan umbrella” or having the appendage Bisaya, now that is not going to be very practical nor street smart, correct? That ain’t gonna happen. :lol:

I do not have to go around the globe apologizing to each Waray and Ylonggo and non-Visayan Filipino I meet for being BOTH Bisaya and a Cebuano “hegemonist”. :lol:That is ludicrous since I had never felt selfish with that word, not even the hegemony part. I had always taken it for granted that the word applied to everyone from the Visayas. Not until I met people like you and the professor.

Notwithstanding this new issue, I would be amenable to a scientific study, survey or poll sponsored any government or media agency. You need not do it alone since you can always find like minded people and form your own group or club. Now that seems a start for your cause, now wouldn’t it? :D

maora naman ug pamoyboy na ning imong tono ondo. pag chur oy!:lol::lol::lol:
bitaw dili nalang ko modungag oy kay kinsa raman gud ang magtinabanay kita raman gihapon puros bisaya. nahala dong pasayloa nalang ang nakasilo sa imong sapyot nga lobot. balik balik lang ta gihapon diri sa atong tugkaran.

This is a non issue so we better just leave it.
Now, let's talk about better things mga amigo.

^^like what i have said binisaya or bisaya is a general term encompassing all visayan dialects.they are grouped accordingly and under those groups are variations...like for example in region 8, the waray dialects has so many variations but still as a group termed as Waray.just like cebuano has variations not only in the visayas but in mindanao also...some using cebuano who are not from cebu are apprehensive in calling it as such for fear of loosing their indentiy...anyway my only point is to take things in their proper perspectives...you may try reading books about languages or i think there is a thread for that...and yes its just the same dog on a different collar...there there.

This is a post quoted from the National Artists thread as this is a more appropriate venue than the former. Mga bai, taga Negros Oriental ko ug ako pud itampo ang akong opinion aning bahina.

Confusion has been set on the word "Bisaya". A simple word yet it cause so much ambiguity and has affected the sensitivity of some people. Allow me to differentiate. First, "Bisaya" as a group of people and secondly "Bisaya" as a language. One can be a Bisaya (person) but could not speak Bisaya (language) at all.

Allow me to simplify with an example. English is actually a West Germanic language brought by the Germans in the 5th century who then settled in Britain. One of these Germanic tribes was the Angle with a language called englisc. Thus the names England (Land of the Angles) and English were derived. Other tribes at that time were the Saxons, Jutes, and Frisians.

Just think out of the box. On the Philippine setting, it is believed that centuries ago a group of Malay people known as Bisaya had migrated and inhabited the middle islands of the archipelago and bringing with them their own language. The word Bisaya has said to be from Srivijaya empire, a thalassocracy which came to power in the coastal areas of Southeast Asia between the 5th and 15th centuries AD. Certain tribes in Malaysia were also known as Bisaya and their languages drew similarities. It is also a known fact that Philippines is a multi ethnic country and each group has it own culture and language. Now whose by fault was it that during the Spanish era, the name Visayas was given encompassing the middle group of islands of the country. Ergo, the dwellers of these islands were generally called Bisaya thus overshadowing the other tribes.

Now here comes the great debate. In modern times, the inhabitants of the middle islands were now generally called Visayans but each place has its own unique flourishing culture and its native tongue is still being spoken. United in being called Visayans but sensitivities had been aroused when language issues were discussed. Some Warays and Hiligaynons do not want it to be called as Bisaya as they contested that they too belong to the same umbrella. Instead it should be called as Cebuano as being associated to the most prominent and populous island of the region.

Growing most of my life in Negros Oriental, I never recall my parents nor my grandparents calling our language as Cebuano, it has always been Bisaya. It is also not a misnomer as that has always been its name based upon tradition for so many generations and other foreign cultures like in Malaysia do also call its own vernacular as Bisaya which proves that such language name really does existed. Why take away its title just because of some grieving factions misconstruding that their identity had been obscured which is actually not?

Going back to the example of the English language earlier. The German tribes Angles, Saxons, Jutes, and Frisians were now generally called English people and their dialects were collectively known as Old English, but would someone question that such name is inappropriate as it is only associated to the Angles? Thus, English should be commonly associated to the inhabitants only but not to the language spoken? Perhaps, maybe even resorting in renaming "englisc" to "anglers" as that might be politically correct. You can extend your imagination on this analogy and drew the connection in renaming Bisaya to Cebuano.

Therefore, in Philippine context "Bisaya" could mean two things, either people who hailed from the Visayan islands or the language spoken by some Filipinos.

I have an interesting discussion early this week. I was talking to my colleagues who are from Cagayan de Oro, Davao, and Cotabato. All from Mindanao. I was asking on how they would call their language, Cebuano or Bisaya? Unanimously, Bisaya.

^^Thanks a lot for your insight, Bai Miguel...and thanks for joining us here.

Anyway, it might be that the distinction between Cebuano and Bisaya has not been given a clear definition, from an ordinary Filipino's standpoint. I am not an not expert on languages, but as far as I know, the Bisaya is for the group of languages, where Cebuano belongs.

Don't get me wrong, but somehow, the language used in Negros Oriental somehow evolved from Cebuano language, only with slight variation, thus it is called Dumagueteno dialect.

I hope we will be proceeding this discussion in a nice way, not in heated arguements again (as what happened to previous discussions with language as topic)...After all, Bisaya ra ta tanan... :okay:

^^Thanks a lot for your insight, Bai Miguel...and thanks for joining us here.

Anyway, it might be that the distinction between Cebuano and Bisaya has not been given a clear definition, from an ordinary Filipino's standpoint. I am not an not expert on languages, but as far as I know, the Bisaya is for the group of languages, where Cebuano belongs.

Don't get me wrong, but somehow, the language used in Negros Oriental somehow evolved from Cebuano language, only with slight variation, thus it is called Dumagueteno dialect.

I hope we will be proceeding this discussion in a nice way, not in heated arguements again (as what happened to previous discussions with language as topic)...After all, Bisaya ra ta tanan... :okay:

Apil-apil lang ko diri bai, pampalipas oras.:cheers:

I have an interesting discussion early this week. I was talking to my colleagues who are from Cagayan de Oro, Davao, and Cotabato. All from Mindanao. I was asking on how they would call their language, Cebuano or Bisaya? Unanimously, Bisaya.

visaya by far is the most widely spoken language in the philippines...imagine you can discuss things with your colleagues from Visayas and Mindanao...hmmm wonder why tagalog became our national language?

Apil-apil lang ko diri bai, pampalipas oras.:cheers:

Feel free...Heheheh...This is the thread dedicated to all Cebuanos and Bisaya (maskin unsa nga Bisaya)... :)

visaya by far is the most widely spoken language in the philippines...imagine you can discuss things with your colleagues from Visayas and Mindanao...hmmm wonder why tagalog became our national language?

I think, it was all politics...Because at the time that language was promulgated as the national one, Cebuano speakers are greater in number than those who speak the other.

But let us no longer dwell on this issue. There has been a lot of cyclic discussion about this topic in the past, and what we got were just warnings from the mods.

Let us be happy, that even without much effort and without laws that supports it's usage in teaching and official transactions, Cebuano language still remains strong and alive and the citizens from Cebuano-speaking regions willingly protect and take pride of this language.

because Manila is the center
and Tagalog is rich in literature.

On a particular note, one reason why Bisaya has long been referred to as Cebuano is perhaps because Cebu was the capital of the Visayas during the Spanish colonial times.

I've seen very old books where Bisaya is referred to as Cebuano.

But let us no longer dwell on this issue. There has been a lot of cyclic discussion about this topic in the past, and what we got were just warnings from the mods.



That's very true. This topic has been cyclic and it has been done by the same culprit. He is just trying to make a point, he says, but his point reeks of insecurity which is just a product of his own (and his circle's) imagination.

Masirado na lat ini nga hilo tungod lang sa iban nga may sayop nga pahahom.

Sige, ini lang anay mga amigo, halin diri sa pu'o sang Bantayan.

^^ Haha, mao bitaw unta kaning hilo nato dili na ma-gubot sa ubang mga forero dire na wa'a intawon lain mabuhat. :D It is a no wonder why Mindanao is predominately Cebuano or Bisaya speaking because most of the inhabitants have their ancestral origins from the Visayas. :yes:

let's be sensitive guyz when you're referring to visayan language be sure not to use synonymously the term cebuano to avoid arguments, use the collective term "visaya"

^^Thanks a lot for your insight, Bai Miguel...and thanks for joining us here.

Anyway, it might be that the distinction between Cebuano and Bisaya has not been given a clear definition, from an ordinary Filipino's standpoint. I am not an not expert on languages, but as far as I know, the Bisaya is for the group of languages, where Cebuano belongs.

Don't get me wrong, but somehow, the language used in Negros Oriental somehow evolved from Cebuano language, only with slight variation, thus it is called Dumagueteno dialect.

I hope we will be proceeding this discussion in a nice way, not in heated arguements again (as what happened to previous discussions with language as topic)...After all, Bisaya ra ta tanan... :okay:

this is just my personal belief regardless of your linguistic studies or what not. that the visayan language has its center of origin in cebu. as it was and still is the center of commerce and trade in the visayas and mindanao. the shift in language variation is brought up by traders between cities, provinces and regions. the farther you go from the center the variation becomes more evident. as you go to bohol its the ja sound in place of the letter y you hear when they speak bisaya and surigao bisaya has its own slight variation,too. the bisaya of negros is similar than that of the cebuano but they tend to mingle it with a bit of hiligaynon. the bisaya of leyte has its variation too that at times has waray waray sounds itegrated to it.

please dont be alarm on this cebu centrict notion of language. i came up with this theory based on personal experience dealing with classmates, friends and families living outside of cebu. my greatest observation is that the waray waray and ilonggos are quick to adjust to the cebuano bisaya language that at times you cant tell that they are pure ilonggo or waray waray. but the cebuano bisaya do have a difficult time learning and mastering the hiligaynon and waray waray languages.

visaya originated from austronesian islands or Malaysia and Indonesia....ilonggo is the transition of visaya to tagalog (central luzon) in west while waray is the transition of visaya to bicolano (bicol) in east

visaya originated from austronesian islands or Malaysia and Indonesia....ilonggo is the transition of visaya to tagalog (central luzon) in west while waray is the transition of visaya to bicolano (bicol) in east

im sorry about dismissing your claim of austronesian theory of origin. if that were true today, as a blue blooded cebuano or bisaya,i should be able to understand or make sense of what my indonesian and malaysian friends are talking about in their own languages. i dont hear the bisayan resemblance on them nor a hint that it is bisaya.

unlike my cebu-centric theory, i can pick up and make sense with my ilongo and waray waray friends even if theyre talking in their own languages. i hear the bisaya in them.

Please! That theory about the Malay race/ wave of migration has already been disproved since the 1960's or 70's. I really find it funny how many Filipinos still teaches or knows such myths to be true in the year 2009. Filipinos did not come from Indonesia or Malaysia! :lol:

mYSr2k4buqU

Please! That theory about the Malay race/ wave of migration has already been disproved since the 1960's or 70's. I really find it funny how many Filipinos still teaches or knows such myths to be true in the year 2009. Filipinos did not come from Indonesia or Malaysia! :lol:

mYSr2k4buqU

I was going to mention the genetic evidence using mtDNA but the video has it. Very comprehensive video on austronesia there.:cheers:

But that's true, the wave migration theory is still taught in schools which is contrary to the recent developments. I would think especially the old history teachers of the public schools who are very historical themselves (retirement na lang ang gihuwat).

Many times when I encounter Malaysians and Indonesians they would say I look like an Indonesian or Malaysian..to which I would reply, but of course, because we are very closely related. You could pass for a Pinoy too. :lol:

because Manila is the center
and Tagalog is rich in literature.

i think this is not an issue of richness of literature...it's an issue of government funding

ok i agree if you are already talking about mtDNA...just wondering where those words similar to visaya came from

Kamingaw

-by bakasaurus

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mszlkyM8t8o/ST73GdBjMkI/AAAAAAAADf0/J4GJy0IP9jo/s320/111aaabanog.jpg

Nangutana ka kon
gimingaw ba ko
diha sa atoa.

Minglili ko sa gawas,
sa way kataposan nga laray
diha sa kamaisan.

Hilom kang naghuwat
sa akong tubag, ug mituktuga-ok
ang mga hiniktan ni Noy Biryo.

Unta makadungog ka sa iyagak
aning nag-inusarang banog, nga karon
nagtuyok-tuyok ubos sa dag-om.

^^
wow! ice breaker kaayo uy! :lol::lol::D

^^ Lawma'g mga work sa mga bisdak oi!

Kamingaw

-by bakasaurus

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_mszlkyM8t8o/ST73GdBjMkI/AAAAAAAADf0/J4GJy0IP9jo/s320/111aaabanog.jpg

Nangutana ka kon
gimingaw ba ko
diha sa atoa.

Minglili ko sa gawas,
sa way kataposan nga laray
diha sa kamaisan.

Hilom kang naghuwat
sa akong tubag, ug mituktuga-ok
ang mga hiniktan ni Noy Biryo.

Unta makadungog ka sa iyagak
aning nag-inusarang banog, nga karon
nagtuyok-tuyok ubos sa dag-om.

Wa ko kasabot sa uban. Perteng lawma! Nice poem though.:)

Maorag hamugaway naman tingali 'ta diri. buajajaja. :lol:

Kini usa ka anindot nga Ben Zubiri classic. Visayan classic songs are normally called Haranas by older Cebuanos.
oHGRmu5J3qg&feature=channel_page
:banana:

i think this is not an issue of richness of literature...it's an issue of government funding

Tagalog was our National Language bec Manila is the center and Tagalog is rich in literature, that's the reason why they chose Tagalog before it was changed to Filipino.


just a trivia:

-Cebuano has 30,000 rootwords
-Tagalog has only 20,000 plus rootwords

to our Cebuano experts, way back to the Spanish era the Batangueno claimed that they were Visayans. is it true? and is it true that's why there is Nasugbo and Kalatagan in Batangas because there were a lot of Visayans in Batangas before? Kalatagan and Nasugbo is very Bisdak.

And during the pre-Hispanic era Palawan was ruled and dominated by the Visayans. Palawan was named after Rajah Pahalawan the brother of Rajah Humabon.

Moving on from the issue of Tagalog versus Cebuano, their lexical similarity still astounds me. Apparently, I was pondering on how to translate Mabuhi Ka, Sugboanon (since I saw it on YouTube) into Tagalog, and apparently, I was able to translate the chorus without much hassle using my passive fluency in the language. For comparison:

Cebuano

Mabuhi, mabuhi, mabuhi
Mabuhi ka, Sugboanon
Dunggan sa imong pagka-Pilipino!

Tagalog

Mabuhay, mabuhay, mabuhay
Mabuhay ka, Sebwano
Sabay ng iyong pagka-Pilipino!

(N.B.: Sebwano is the Tagalicized spelling of "Cebuano" adopted by the Komisyon sa Wikang Filipino.)

I'm not sure about the rest of the song, but at least it shows that both languages are indeed lexically similar, similar to the point that Cebuano words in Tagalog can be inflected normally in Tagalog (the most prominent example being gahum).

OT: What's the status of Mabuhi Ka, Sugboanon? I definitely don't think though that this is the Cebu provincial hymn. Or is it?

to our Cebuano experts, way back to the Spanish era the Batangueno claimed that they were Visayans. is it true? and is it true that's why there is Nasugbo and Kalatagan in Batangas because there were a lot of Visayans in Batangas before? Kalatagan and Nasugbo is very Bisdak.

And during the pre-Hispanic era Palawan was ruled and dominated by the Visayans. Palawan was named after Rajah Pahalawan the brother of Rajah Humabon.

uy dili ko expert ha pero uy, interesting! :okay:

lets presume tinuod ni, nakahinumdum lang ko sa batangas (knife)...:lol::lol:

mga warriors gyud ang visaya. :okay::lol:

that's true, coz i've been residing here in batangas for almost 4 years and they really sound like visaya...both dialect uses the same fixes...for example:

manila = kainan
visaya = kaoni/kan-i
batangas = kaini

manila = inuman
visaya = inumi/imni
batangas = inumi

manila = kuhanin
visaya = kuhai
batangas = kuhai

manila = tawagan
visaya = tawagi/tawgi
batangas = tawagi/tawgi

manila = bahaginan
batangas = bahagini

manila = abutan
batangas = abuti

and many more....

^^

hehehe... bai just to be safe lang, instead of using visaya for cebuano, indicate cebuano na lang coz laen pud ang visaya ilonggo and visaya waray. :)

uy pero interesting gyud ni! i've never had any batangueño buddy or do i have relatives/friends residing there.

most of batangas tagalog terms really are of visayan origin with just transliteration of visayan vowels o/u to batangas tagalog e/i...ex:

visaya = uga
batangas = iga

visaya = dukot
batangas = dikit

and many more...i'll keep you posted

ah ok...thanx bai...naa man gud ko diri batangas puyo...so matawag na ko collectively ang mga nagpuyo karon sa south as visaya...sorry

^^
visaya man gyud bai. but we all know man gud na visaya is not only cebuano. makasabot man ta sa uban visaya na dili cebuano like the ilonggos and the warays basta iindicate lang which visaya you mean.:)

Unya ayaw ninyo kalimti ang mga taga Mindanao! We also speak a variety of Visayan languages but majority are Cebuano speakers. :D

^^

hehehe... sorry bai @animo...right! sure! :okay:

visaya = hugot
batangas = higit

Few years ago, I visited some of my relatives in Cebu. I spoke Bisayan, but not in Cebuano accent. Also, they couldn't understand some of my words. So they laughed at me. Hmmmm...


Kagay-anon/Cebuano/English

Tsada-Nindot-Beautiful
Kala-Bukal-Boil
Pita-Lapok-Mud
Salaba-Labay-Throw
Ganit-Tigulang-Old
Kapayason-Hambugiro-Boastful
Purok-Guna-A farming tool
Agpas-Pagdali-Fast; Quick
Igang (used also in other places in Mindanao)-Alimoot-Hot climate
Balbal-Ungo-Monster
Arawan-Kaka-Spider
Pagtamala-Pamataka-
Laroy-Suroy-Shop
Palamo-lamo-Patuga-tuga-
Dalikdik-Tagiptip
Marama-Maro-
Halas-Bitin-Snake
Sampayna-Dinugoan-
Kalay-Buang-Crazy
Hangol/Hakog-Daho-Selfish
Pura-Tagam-
Hag-as- Dili katuohan-Impossible
Buros-Mabdos-Pregnant
Gama-Buhat-Make
Paras-Alingasa/Sipat-
Abay-Tapad-Beside you
Laras-Pakyaw-
Tipot-Lubot-Butt
Taliti-Ulan-Rain
Tingalngal-Unsa lang ang nganlon-
Butbot-Basig unsa lang ang istorya-Bubbling
Baklay-Bagtas-Hike
Gabon-Panganod-Clouds
Aha-Asa-Where
Gakatawaha-Grabeng katawa-


*Marami pang Kagay-anon words (inherited from our ancient Higaonon settlers-one of the lumads in CdeO before the Visayan settlers) I'd like to post. Next time ulit. ^^

Few years ago, I visited some of my relatives in Cebu. I spoke Bisayan, but not in Cebuano accent. Also, they couldn't understand some of my words. So they laughed at me. Hmmmm...


Kagay-anon/Cebuano/English

Tsada-Nindot-Beautiful
Kala-Bukal-Boil
Pita-Lapok-Mud
Salaba-Labay-Throw
Ganit-Tigulang-Old
Kapayason-Hambugiro-Boastful
Purok-Guna-A farming tool
Agpas-Pagdali-Fast; Quick
Igang (used also in other places in Mindanao)-Alimoot-Hot climate
Balbal-Ungo-Monster
Arawan-Kaka-Spider
Pagtamala-Pamataka-
Laroy-Suroy-Shop
Palamo-lamo-Patuga-tuga-
Dalikdik-Tagiptip
Marama-Maro-
Halas-Bitin-Snake
Sampayna-Dinugoan-
Kalay-Buang-Crazy
Hangol/Hakog-Daho-Selfish
Pura-Tagam-
Hag-as- Dili katuohan-Impossible
Buros-Mabdos-Pregnant
Gama-Buhat-Make
Paras-Alingasa/Sipat-
Abay-Tapad-Beside you
Laras-Pakyaw-
Tipot-Lubot-Butt
Taliti-Ulan-Rain
Tingalngal-Unsa lang ang nganlon-
Butbot-Basig unsa lang ang istorya-Bubbling
Baklay-Bagtas-Hike
Gabon-Panganod-Clouds
Aha-Asa-Where
Gakatawaha-Grabeng katawa-


*Marami pang Kagay-anon words (inherited from our ancient Higaonon settlers-one of the lumads in CdeO before the Visayan settlers) I'd like to post. Next time ulit. ^^

uy! thanks bai @taegon for sharing some kagayanon words...

i highlighted some words that i use from time to time....

in the cebuano i know from my parents hangol pertains to food while dalo pertains to things.

Unya ayaw ninyo kalimti ang mga taga Mindanao! We also speak a variety of Visayan languages but majority are Cebuano speakers. :D

In Mindanao where Boholano settlers predominate than the Cebuano settlers, I always hear, " Jud than Gyud or Gayud," nowadays in CdeO where Bisayan language is already a mixture of "Cebuano Bisaya, Boholano Bisaya, Higaonon, Manobo, Bukidnon, and Mamanwa."

For example: Tsada jud!

In CdeO or in whole Mindanao, the Tagalog words "Pangit, Hangal, and Tapos" and the Spanish word Para are always spoken than Cebuano words like "Bati and Aron or Alang (So that/For).

uy! thanks bai @taegon for sharing some kagayanon words...

i highlighted some words that i use from time to time....

in the cebuano i know from my parents hangol pertains to food while dalo pertains to things.

You are always welcome bai! ^^

^^
aron and alang is deep cebuano.

on my part, tapos for me is unya (not the "later")
para for me is still my word only when i ask favor to call somebody.

e.g paraha gud na siya noy or paraha gud nang taxi dong.

^^
aron and alang is deep cebuano.

on my part, tapos for me is unya (not the "later")
para for me is still my word only when i ask favor to call somebody.

e.g paraha gud na siya noy or paraha gud nang taxi dong.

Dong or Day/Inday used to be words of respect is now words of discrimination or degradation by MANY of the Tagalogs nowadays, especially in NCR. Dong or Inday has been used as comparison to the word MAID or katulong. To some extent, they are using thus words to all Bisaya in Visayas and Mindanao. This is what I notice. :ohno:

Ang kataw-anan lang is that in Cagayan de Oro nowadays where Tagalog settlers are increasing, it seems that MANY youngsters especially the educated ones will get angry if you use DONG/DAY or Inday by calling them. :lol: You should use MR. MS. Mrs. Sir and Maam or Migo/Miga. Haay naku! Pasosyal effect lang ba yan or lalo lang denidegrade ang sarili nila? Reklamo eto most of all ng mga Taga-Bukidnon and Bohol and even my Cebuano cousins :nuts: who use to work and settle in CdeO.

Ganito ba talaga ang epekto ng Pangmumura ng many of the Tagalogs as seen in televisions sa mga kabataan ng CdeO ngayon? :lol:

How about sa ibang lugar at syudad ng Mindanao where Bisaya settlers dominate? Mag DONG or Day (kung wala ko kaila sa pangalan nila) daw ko didto if makasab-an ba sab ko? Hehehe :nuts:

^^

honestly bai, these things i really wanted to avoid kay kapoy na kaayo..hehehe..

pasagdahan na lang nako na sila...

makasabot ra ta sa mga tagalogs kay wala man na sila kasabot unsa'y forms of respect sa ato-a.

basta bai, know what is right and continue to do what is right. you are fortunate kahibalo ka and its our duty to educate others na wala makahibalo bahin niini.. ;)

^^

honestly bai, these things i really wanted to avoid kay kapoy na kaayo..hehehe..

pasagdahan na lang nako na sila...

makasabot ra ta sa mga tagalogs kay wala man na sila kasabot unsa'y forms of respect sa ato-a.

basta bai, know what is right and continue to do what is right. you are fortunate kahibalo ka and its our duty to educate others na wala makahibalo bahin niini.. ;)


Bai, kulang nalang siguro sabihin nila na, "Tao ako. Hindi ako Bisaya!" :nuts:

Anyway, you are right! :)

Bai, kulang nalang siguro sabihin nila na, "Tao ako. Hindi ako Bisaya!" :nuts:

Anyway, you are right! :)

hehehe...di napud na maayo bai... binugo na pud na siya! hehehe

@Taegon, thanks for dropping by and sharing those words.
Kini nga thread para ni natong mga Bisaya nga gikan sa Cebu, Northern Mindanao, Davao, Zambo Pen, Bohol, Negros Oriental ug Western Leyte, . Maski naa variations ginagmay, but most of the time, magkasinabot ra ta tanan.

Always feel free to post diri, Bai @Taegon.

@Taegon, thanks for dropping by and sharing those words.
Kini nga thread para ni natong mga Bisaya nga gikan sa Cebu, Northern Mindanao, Davao, Zambo Pen, Bohol, Negros Oriental ug Western Leyte, . Maski naa variations ginagmay, but most of the time, magkasinabot ra ta tanan.

Always feel free to post diri, Bai @Taegon.


Salamat ayo bai sa mainitong pag-abi2x sa ako diri.

Basta Bisaya language especially the Cebuano Bisaya is indeed a very rich language. I can say very rich than our official language Tagalog. ^^

Mga Ihap, Bisdak Version
Cardinal Numbers in Pure Cebuano

Definitely, you will never lean inside the classroom!

1 - usa
2 - duha
3 - tulo
4 - upat
5 - lima
6 - unom
7 - pito
8 - walo
9 - siyam
10 - napulo (napuo)
11 - napulo'g usa
12 - napulo'g duha
13 - napulo'g tulo
19 - napulo'g siyam
20 - kaluhaan, kaduhaan, kahwaan
21 - kaluhaan ug usa, kaduhaan ug usa, kawhaan ug usa
22 - kaluhaan ug duha, kaduhaan ug duha, kawhaan ug duha
30 - katloan
40 - kaaptan
50 - kalimaan
60 - kaunoman
70 - kapitoan
80 - kawaloan
90 - kasiyaman
100 - usa ka gatos
101 - usa ka gatos ug usa
110 - usa ka gatos ug napulo
111 - usa ka gatos ug napulo'g usa
200 - duha ka gatos
500 - lima ka gatos
1,000 - usa ka libo
1,001 - usa ka libo ug usa
10,000 - napulo ka libo
100,000 - usa ka gatos ka libo

gatos = hundred
ribo/yukut = thousand
dumalan/malalang = ten thousand
mayucut = hundred thousand
napolo ca mayucut/yaba = million
napolo ca yaba/pamoraboraan = billion

Mga Ihap, Bisdak Version
Cardinal Numbers in Pure Cebuano

Definitely, you will never lean inside the classroom!

1 - usa
2 - duha
3 - tulo
4 - upat
5 - lima
6 - unom
7 - pito
8 - walo
9 - siyam
10 - napulo (napuo)
11 - napulo'g usa
12 - napulo'g duha
13 - napulo'g tulo
19 - napulo'g siyam
20 - kaluhaan, kaduhaan, kahwaan
21 - kaluhaan ug usa, kaduhaan ug usa, kawhaan ug usa
22 - kaluhaan ug duha, kaduhaan ug duha, kawhaan ug duha
30 - katloan
40 - kaaptan
50 - kalimaan
60 - kaunoman
70 - kapitoan
80 - kawaloan
90 - kasiyaman
100 - usa ka gatos
101 - usa ka gatos ug usa
110 - usa ka gatos ug napulo
111 - usa ka gatos ug napulo'g usa
200 - duha ka gatos
500 - lima ka gatos
1,000 - usa ka libo
1,001 - usa ka libo ug usa
10,000 - napulo ka libo
100,000 - usa ka gatos ka libo

sa tinud-anay nga sinebuano kini ang husto pero sa practical nga sinebuano by using less syllables inig abot na napulo i sumpay once, doce, trece, katorce,quince...hangtud sa usa ka gatos then mo ihap napud ug siento uno siento dos....

unconsiously this is how cebuanos with strong spanish influence count pabalikbalik sa bisaya ug spanish. but because it comes out of your mouth naturally para nalang ug part bisaya siya pero sa tinuoray bisaya ug spanish gi sagulsagul nalang unsciously.

A Visayan Harana with a Bossa Nova beat! :banana:

Mabuhay Singers
Full credit to my good friend Señor toiletholder
LifFzUz-mXI&feature=channel_page
:cheers:

Pls feel free to check the lyrics I wrote down quickly con ensacto ba...

Wa Ko Hisabti

Ihilak ko lang sa tago
Ang kasakit sa kamingaw
Didto sa tago isugilon ko
Ang lakad nga kaguol

Ngano ba giud nga antuson
Imo akong biyaan
Unsa ba giud ang hinungdan
Malipay kung talikdan ako

Wa ko hisabti
Ang imong paghigugma
Usahay gali pakit-on mo akong mohilak ka

Ngano ba kini
Pagkadili giud masabot
Unta nahigugma ka man
Nganong magpalayo

Ihilak ko lang sa tago
Ang kasakit sa kamingaw
Didto sa tago isugilon ko
Ang kaguol ning dughan

Wa ko hisabti
Ang imong paghigugma
Usahay gali pakit-on mo akong mohilak ka

Ngano ba kini
Pagkadili giud masabot
Unta nahigugma ka man
Nganong magpalayo

Ihilak ko lang sa tago
Ang kasakit sa kamingaw
Didto sa tago isugilon ko
Ang kaguol ning dughan

Few years ago, I visited some of my relatives in Cebu. I spoke Bisayan, but not in Cebuano accent. Also, they couldn't understand some of my words. So they laughed at me. Hmmmm...


Kagay-anon/Cebuano/English

Tsada-Nindot-Beautiful
Kala-Bukal-Boil
Pita-Lapok-Mud
Salaba-Labay-Throw
Ganit-Tigulang-Old
Kapayason-Hambugiro-Boastful
Purok-Guna-A farming tool
Agpas-Pagdali-Fast; Quick
Igang (used also in other places in Mindanao)-Alimoot-Hot climate
Balbal-Ungo-Monster
Arawan-Kaka-Spider
Pagtamala-Pamataka-
Laroy-Suroy-Shop
Palamo-lamo-Patuga-tuga-
Dalikdik-Tagiptip
Marama-Maro-
Halas-Bitin-Snake
Sampayna-Dinugoan-
Kalay-Buang-Crazy
Hangol/Hakog-Daho-Selfish
Pura-Tagam-
Hag-as- Dili katuohan-Impossible
Buros-Mabdos-Pregnant
Gama-Buhat-Make
Paras-Alingasa/Sipat-
Abay-Tapad-Beside you
Laras-Pakyaw-
Tipot-Lubot-Butt
Taliti-Ulan-Rain
Tingalngal-Unsa lang ang nganlon-
Butbot-Basig unsa lang ang istorya-Bubbling
Baklay-Bagtas-Hike
Gabon-Panganod-Clouds
Aha-Asa-Where
Gakatawaha-Grabeng katawa-


*Marami pang Kagay-anon words (inherited from our ancient Higaonon settlers-one of the lumads in CdeO before the Visayan settlers) I'd like to post. Next time ulit. ^^

kadaghanan gihapon ana nga mga words bai, masabtan ra. mao nay mga words nga pirmi gamiton sa akong mga lola ug lolo. in other words, old Cebuano words sila or mga synonyms ra.

pareha ra diri sa Cebu. naay mga words nga gigamit sa Metro Cebu nga lahi pud ang gigamit sa Cebu province pero pareha rag meaning.

sa tinud-anay nga sinebuano kini ang husto pero sa practical nga sinebuano by using less syllables inig abot na napulo i sumpay once, doce, trece, katorce,quince...hangtud sa usa ka gatos then mo ihap napud ug siento uno siento dos....

unconsiously this is how cebuanos with strong spanish influence count pabalikbalik sa bisaya ug spanish. but because it comes out of your mouth naturally para nalang ug part bisaya siya pero sa tinuoray bisaya ug spanish gi sagulsagul nalang unsciously.

Yes, Cebuanos love shortening the words. That's why we have two kinds of cardinal numerals, one is the pure (archaic) Cebuano and the other one is loaned from Spanish. Probably, one of a kind. :D

A Visayan Harana with a Bossa Nova beat! :banana:

Mabuhay Singers
Full credit to my good friend Señor toiletholder
LifFzUz-mXI&feature=channel_page
:cheers:

Pls feel free to check the lyrics I wrote down quickly con ensacto ba...

Wa Ko Hisabti

Ihilak ko lang sa tago
Ang kasakit sa kamingaw
Didto sa tago isugilon ko
Ang lakad nga kaguol

Ngano ba giud nga antuson
Imo akong biyaan
Unsa ba giud ang hinungdan
Malipay kung talikdan ako

Wa ko hisabti
Ang imong paghigugma
Usahay gali pakit-on mo akong mohilak ka

Ngano ba kini
Pagkadili giud masabot
Unta nahigugma ka man
Nganong magpalayo

Ihilak ko lang sa tago
Ang kasakit sa kamingaw
Didto sa tago isugilon ko
Ang kaguol ning dughan

Wa ko hisabti
Ang imong paghigugma
Usahay gali pakit-on mo akong mohilak ka

Ngano ba kini
Pagkadili giud masabot
Unta nahigugma ka man
Nganong magpalayo

Ihilak ko lang sa tago
Ang kasakit sa kamingaw
Didto sa tago isugilon ko
Ang kaguol ning dughan

nindot pud paminawon ang pobreng alindahaw. karon paku ka dungong aning bahal nga tuba. pero nindot kay maypagka cha cha cha ang timing niya. kudos to the mabuhay singers. maayo kaayo nga grupo. too bad wala na silay new generation mabuhay singers.

ok i agree if you are already talking about mtDNA...just wondering where those words similar to visaya came from

I believed you quoted me on this one. The Filipino expert on Indian influence, Dr. Juan Francisco, who was educated in India and can read various Indian languages already studied about it. He wrote that there is little evidence to show that before 1565 there were direct contacts between the people of Luzón and the Visayas on the one hand and Indians on the other. Such Indian influence that can be found "percolated" (the expression is his) northward to the Philippines from the heavily Indianized islands of what is now Indonesia. He said that the Indian influence in the Philippines does not suggest the presence of a Brahmanic class.

The early migration According to a paper, The search for the origins of 'Melayu', by Leonard Y Andaya, published by the Journal of Southeast Asian Studies, October 2001, the first groups of humans, some of whom eventually became Malays, began migrating out of Taiwan in 4000 -- 3000 BCE. Others have suggested eastern China as the springboard. They first went over to Luzón and other Philippine islands and then by about 2000 BCE, reached northern Borneo. Other groups drifted southwards to Mindanao, Sulawesi, the Malukus, and eventually eastern and central Java.

You can read more here: http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2005/yax-455.htm

Mga Ihap, Bisdak Version
Cardinal Numbers in Pure Cebuano

Definitely, you will never lean inside the classroom!

1 - usa
2 - duha
3 - tulo
4 - upat
5 - lima
6 - unom
7 - pito
8 - walo
9 - siyam
10 - napulo (napuo)
11 - napulo'g usa
12 - napulo'g duha
13 - napulo'g tulo
19 - napulo'g siyam
20 - kaluhaan, kaduhaan, kahwaan
21 - kaluhaan ug usa, kaduhaan ug usa, kawhaan ug usa
22 - kaluhaan ug duha, kaduhaan ug duha, kawhaan ug duha
30 - katloan
40 - kaaptan
50 - kalimaan
60 - kaunoman
70 - kapitoan
80 - kawaloan
90 - kasiyaman
100 - usa ka gatos
101 - usa ka gatos ug usa
110 - usa ka gatos ug napulo
111 - usa ka gatos ug napulo'g usa
200 - duha ka gatos
500 - lima ka gatos
1,000 - usa ka libo
1,001 - usa ka libo ug usa
10,000 - napulo ka libo
100,000 - usa ka gatos ka libo

Very Spanish influenced gyud ang Cebuano Language..........:)

Sa imong gi-quote nge post, naa ba Spanish diha?

^^
:lol::rofl:

10,000 = dumalan
100,000 = mayucut
100,000,000 = yaba
100,000,000,000 = pamoraboraan

naa ba tagalog equivalent ani?

Very Spanish influenced gyud ang Cebuano Language..........:)

Sa imong gi-quote nge post, naa ba Spanish diha?

^^
:lol::rofl:

at bai @ken. bai inum nya ta ha! :lol::lol::D

idol na gyud tika! :lol::lol:;)

Very Spanish influenced gyud ang Cebuano Language..........:)

Sa imong gi-quote nge post, naa ba Spanish diha?


:lol: :rofl:


:rofl:

Anyway, he is referring to the quotes below:

sa tinud-anay nga sinebuano kini ang husto pero sa practical nga sinebuano by using less syllables inig abot na napulo i sumpay once, doce, trece, katorce,quince...hangtud sa usa ka gatos then mo ihap napud ug siento uno siento dos....

unconsiously this is how cebuanos with strong spanish influence count pabalikbalik sa bisaya ug spanish. but because it comes out of your mouth naturally para nalang ug part bisaya siya pero sa tinuoray bisaya ug spanish gi sagulsagul nalang unsciously.

Yes, Cebuanos love shortening the words. That's why we have two kinds of cardinal numerals, one is the pure (archaic) Cebuano and the other one is loaned from Spanish. Probably, one of a kind. :D

Meteorology in Cebuano

sun - adlaw
cloud - pangadod
sky - langit
day - adlaw
rain - ulan
drizzle - alindahaw, salisi, taligsik, talithi (Honestly, I don't know which is lightest and which is heaviest)
downpour - bunok
moon - bulan
star - bitoon
tornado - buhawi
whirlwind - ipo-ipo
typhoon - bagyo
whirlpool - lilo
tide - pagtaob
flood - baha, lunop
wind - hangin
air - hangin
lightning - kilat
thunder - dalugdog

English = Cebuano

Monday = Tigburukad
Tuesday = Dumason
Wednesday = Dukot-dukot
Thursday = Baylo-baylo
Friday = Danghus
Saturday = Hingot-hingot
Sunday = Ligid-ligid

The first time I've entered here since that debate over the Visayan identity...

I know we may have some differences but I guess you have to read this article and react on what the ambassador thinks about on how Visayans speak their English.

We couldn't blame the Visayans on why they interchange Is and Es...well in the first place, there is a slim difference between these two in Visayan speech.

He doesn't know that voice BPOs right now prefer Visayan talents...and that's why they are scouting almost every other city in the region.

Titser, May I Go Out! by Ambassador Jose Zaide (http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/221764/tser-mey-i-go-out)

Visayan's interchanging "i's" and "e's" (same with "p's" and "f's") is not really the reason why BPO is concentrated in MM.

We all know that it is all about infrastructures, finances and promotions that this overly centralized government provided to MM.

Ningbukal na pud akong dugo.

Visayan's interchanging "i's" and "e's" (same with "p's" and "f's") is not really the reason why BPO is concentrated in MM.

We all know that it is all about infrastructures, finances and promotions that this overly centralized government provided to MM.

Ningbukal na pud akong dugo.
Can we blame ourselves of the so-called "imperfection" as based on his POV?

If you are to read it bluntly, its giving a signal that Iloilo or even perhaps any Visayan city (since it mentioned Visayan in general) doesn't deserve to have a part of the BPO pie because of the interchanging and/or replacement.

In my opinion, he has a shallow perception on how the BPO industry works. Quality talent may be a great contributing factor in locating businesses but having read the article is really nauseating and felt discomfort.

I say...how come Cebu has the largest number of voice BPO businesses outside Metro Manila if they knew (the locators) that we Visayans interchange the Is and the Es or Ps or Fs?

What is he implying to?

And mind you, a lot of Visayan people are employed in Manila-based BPO industry. So what is the difference then?

So how come, BPO are not so popular in the entire island of Luzon(specifically the Tagalog-concentrated areas) if only the Visayans are cursed with stiff tongues?

Nah..."i's" and "e's" is just too shallow reason and too obvious insult.



What is he implying to?

He is implying that he is ignorant and arrogant. I don't know why our schools are producing these kind of craps.

These craps, by the way, are the ones pulling our country down.

Dili ni cya Bisaya pod who is trying to humor himself? If so, then that'd be more acceptable. What is apparent though is nagpakabrayt cya regarding proper English but on this point:

In Berlin, Consul General Joselito Jimeno, Consul Manny Comia, and I used to chuckle over the pseudo-American slang of one ASEAN ambassador whom we couldn’t understand... only to learn that he had a Filipino-English teacher.

He doesn't seem to know the proper English meaning for slang which a lot of Filipinos often misuse to mean accent. Slang means colloqialisms. Street language, which is mostly improper English (think pussy for the proper word vagina, cock for penis). It does not refer to accent or how close we speak the language with the way native speakers speak it.

Nagpataka lang pod cya ba, unya nanaway raba ang boing. Hahaha.

as far as I know, Cebuano English speakers are better than the Tagalog speakers. in is and es issue, naa ra na kasagaran sa mga wa kaayoy grado.

tagalog speakers oftenly speak SPEED as ESPEED, SPACE as ESPACE, SPECIAL as ESPECIAL, etc.

Meteorology in Cebuano

sun - adlaw
cloud - pangadod
sky - langit
day - adlaw
rain - ulan
drizzle - alindahaw, salisi, taligsik, talithi (Honestly, I don't know which is lightest and which is heaviest)
downpour - bunok
moon - bulan
star - bitoon
tornado - buhawi
whirlwind - ipo-ipo
typhoon - bagyo
whirlpool - lilo
tide - pagtaob
flood - baha, lunop
wind - hangin
air - hangin
lightning - kilat
thunder - dalugdog

here's more to add:

drizzle is habu habu
high tide is taob
low tide is hunas
morning is buntag
noon is odto
afternoon is hapon
night is gabi-i
strong wind is onos or habagat
past midnight is kadlawaonn
sunrise is subang but its use as a phrase as in inig subang sa adlaw
sunset is kilom-kilom
full moon ia takdol

as far as I know, Cebuano English speakers are better than the Tagalog speakers. in is and es issue, naa ra na kasagaran sa mga wa kaayoy grado.

tagalog speakers oftenly speak SPEED as ESPEED, SPACE as ESPACE, SPECIAL as ESPECIAL, etc.

thats probably how they heard their elementary and high school teachers who are not speech conscious. basta maka sulti lang gud iningles they dont mind if theyre using their dialect's accent to say it. english is phonetic in nature while the philippine dialects are syllabic.

btw, who can pronounce "cycle" correctly? tagalogs or the bisaya is your one dollar question.

IMO its just a matter of educating what's right and whats not. our schools has the duty and the responsibility to correct ideas or perceptions within their students in this case, grammar and pronunciation.

IMO its just a matter of educating what's right and whats not. our schools has the duty and the responsibility to correct ideas or perceptions within their students in this case, grammar and pronunciation.

the english language curriculum in our schools probably needs some tweaking. grammar and pronunciation has been the style since we went to school as opposed to learning english from a conversational perspective.

nakadungog ko og nindot na cebuano song sa radyo...ang nagcompose daw taga-davao ug ang title sa kanta kay "sa imong paglayo"....nindot biya sya... i can consider it as a "serious" kind of cebuano music different sa Bisrock na ang uban kay inamaw na sad kaayo...:lol::lol::lol::D

maayo pagkacompose unya nindot gyud ang beat.... nice!

murag pangsoundtrack sa usa ka teleserye! :lol::lol::lol::D

hope they will abolish the pilipino subject so that we can focus on the study of english language

nakadungog ko og nindot na cebuano song sa radyo...ang nagcompose daw taga-davao ug ang title sa kanta kay "sa imong paglayo"....nindot biya sya... i can consider it as a "serious" kind of cebuano music different sa Bisrock na ang uban kay inamaw na sad kaayo...:lol::lol::lol::D

maayo pagkacompose unya nindot gyud ang beat.... nice!

murag pangsoundtrack sa usa ka teleserye! :lol::lol::lol::D

Bai, basin makapangita ka og details ato...I-post unya diri ha.

nakadungog nako ana...nindot bitaw

http://www.imeem.com/ceprygregg/music/rYk26kZr/dinomics-artists-sa-imong-paglayo/

Nindot man kaayo nga kanta bai...Pang ballad kaayo...Pero so far, para nako, "Pasko sa Binilanggo" gihapon ang da best para nako.

Salamat diay sa link.

nakadungog nako ana...nindot bitaw

http://www.imeem.com/ceprygregg/music/rYk26kZr/dinomics-artists-sa-imong-paglayo/

hehehe...bai imo gyud kong giunhan! :lol::lol:

suwayan nako og suwat ang lyrics ha...

SA IMONG PAGLAYO
Dinomics Artists

Buntag na, kamingaw ba
Nganong naginusara
Ug king mata puno sa luha
Nibiya ka ug di na mubalik pa
Kay ang kasing-kasing mo lain na ang nanagiya

Ngano ba na gibudhian mo ako
Unsa ba, unsa ang salang nahimo ko
Hain na ang mga saad ug panumpa mo
Nahanaw ang tanan
Sa imong paglayo

Nibiya ka ug di na mubalik pa
Kay ang kasing-kasing mo lain na ang nanagiya
Ngano ba na gibudhian mo ako
Unsa ba, unsa ang salang nahimo ko
Hain na ang mga saad ug panumpa mo
Nahanaw ang tanan
Sa imong paglayo

Ug karon wala ka na ning kiliran
Mupadayon bag pitik kining dughan

Ngano ba na gibudhian mo ako
Unsa ba, unsa ang salang nahimo ko
Hain na ang mga saad ug panumpa mo
Nahanaw ang tanan
Sa imong paglayo

w24ox3I-NVY

hope they will abolish the pilipino subject so that we can focus on the study of english language

Or a better suggestion, have Tagalog as an elective subject in High School (include Ilocano, Kampampangan, Pangasinense, Hiligaynon, Waray, Maranao, Maguindanaon, and Sama).

Cebuano Language must be compulsory subject from Kindergarten to Elementary, that is for provinces which is 70% Cebuano-speaking. :D

from this website... http://melayuonline.com/eng/article/read/637

The Muslim Rulers of Manila
The Golden Mosque, Metro, Manila.


By: Awang Romeo Duana Rodil[1]

The relations between the Philippines and Brunei Darussalam date very far back in history, political, economic, religious as well as socio-cultural relations between these two countries had existed more than five centuries ago as could be gleaned from the numerous written articles. Particularly during the period when the Spanish, the Portuguese and the Dutch were contesting supremacy over the territories comprising the Malay Peninsula and the Southeast Asian region. However, a more important relationship had established a stronger bond between the people of these two countries, especially with regards to the blood affinity between the Brunei royal families and the Muslim Filipino nobles in the 15th century.

Hence, this article studies the origins and identities of the Muslim rulers of Manila and their relationship with the Brunei royalties. The Filipino Muslims have always treasured their written genealogies called silsilas or tarsilas, primarily because it serves as a principal point of reference of their distinct genealogical identity since it gave them some bargaining power with the colonial authorities who perceived them as a special group. However, this exclusiveness proved to be a dreadful burden to their descendants because it made them vulnerable to manipulations by the colonial government and also encouraged continuous inbreeding among them which, in turn, isolated them from the rest of their countrymen.

The Spanish records mentioned three rulers who played significant roles in the Philippine's history during the arrival of Legaspi in Manila in 1571 A.D. They were Raja Matanda, referred to as El Viego; Raja Lakandula and their nephew, Raja Sulaiman, referred to as Rajamora. Raja Matanda and Raja Sulaiman were joint rulers of the Kingdom of Manila while Raja Lakandula ruled over the Kingdom of Tondo.

Fernando Malang Balagtas, a descendant of a royal family in Brunei, traces the genealogy of the three rajas (Appendi 1). Raja Matanda, Raja Lakandula and the father of Raja Sulaiman were first degree cousins. Therefore, Raja Sulaiman was their nephew.[2]

Their first generation ancestors were the Noble Araw from Brunei and Maylag who had two children, Gatpandan and Lontoc. Gatpandan had six children and were the founders of Ternate and Moluccas. Meanwhile Lontoc married Calangitan from Pasig and had four children, Panginoan, Sri Lela or Sulaiman 1, Lahat and Cahia. Sulaiman I, the founder of Manila, married Ysmeria and begot three children, Sulaiman II, the father of Raja Sulaiman; Matanda and Lakandula (figure I).
Raja Matanda (1480 - 1572)

Raja Matanda means 'old chief' and his real name was Mohammad. The Spaniards called him Raja Ache el Viego. He was a Muslim and his ancestors came to Luzon from the Southern Philippines. When he was still a boy, his father died and since he was too young to rule Manila, he lived for a time with his cousin, the chief of Tondo.[3]

As he grew up, he realized that he was not being treated well by his cousin, so he told his mother about it and asked her to allow him to go to his grandfather in Brunei. His mother would not permit him to leave but since he was so insistent, he managed to travel with some brave men who were his father's friends. When they reached Brunei, his grandfather was very glad to see him and gave him ships and men to test his bravery by conquering other places. He proved to be a very brave and able warrior so he was admired and gained new friends. After having conquered Sarawak and other areas for his grandfather, he was made admiral of the Brunei fleet.[4]

The Noble Araw of Borneo

Figure I: Origin of the Muslim Rulers of Manila

According to Dr. Jose Rizal, Raja Matanda in his younger years was a mighty warrior and has served as commanding general and admiral of the land and naval forces of the Sultan of Brunei.[5] He was returning to Brunei after conquering Laut, located in the southeastern tip of Borneo, where he was captured by the survivors of Magellan's fleet. He was able to regain his freedom when he bribed Juan Carvallo, the commander of the fleet, with a sum of gold. This was further confirmed by Dr. Santiago that besides being the son of the King of Luzon, he was the grandson of Sultan Bolkiah. He traveled to his grandfather's realm to marry a cousin, a practice being followed by Muslim rulers and Luzon nobility which confirms the interrelationship of the regal houses of Manila, Brunei and Sulu.[6]

Raja Matanda's other name was Laya, which according to an anonymous account, had no children by his first wife though he sired many other children, one of them was Lakandula. It would appear that polygamy was a common practice during the pre-Hispanic times. The Spanish authorities did not recognize the custom and the children with the second or third wife were regarded illegitimate mainly for the purposes of inheritance and succession to their father.[7]

Raja Matanda was a retired ruler and chief at the time of the arrival of the Spaniards in Luzon. He had assigned his chieftainship and authority to his nephew, Raja Sulaiman. He was the oldest of three rajas found exercising dominion in the Tagalog region. His native and ancient name 'Ache' was immediately connected with Malansi, acknowledged to be the father of Fernando Malang Balagtas, who was none other than Raja Lakandula. As such, he was the real father of Lakandula, who was a natural son as he had no child by his first wife.[8]

In the same manner that he passed on his authority and dominion over old Manila to Sulaiman, he also handed down his authorities over Tondo to Lakandula. Though decrepit with age, he was still consulted whenever there were problems. However, he was not very much effective because Raja Sulaiman clung to his own decisions. The Spaniards, especially Legaspi, gained his friendship and respect but his views and opinion no longer carried much weight with his nephew except token obedience.

According to Dr. Rizal, Isabella de los Reyes and Jaime de Veyra. Raja Matanda was not the third raja because they believed that the Spaniards confused his title for a non-existent person for the reason that they did not know the Tagalog language. On the other hand, the Spanish chroniclers including Legaspi, stated that Matanda was the third raja who surrendered Manila to the Spaniards, had no sons and requested that Sulaiman be his heir. The latter findings were sustained by scholars and writers such as Father Colin, Frays san Agustin, Moreno Donoso, Zuniga Concepcion, Ferrando and Montero y Vidal based on the will of Fernando Malang Balagtas which stated that Raja Matanda and Raja Sulaiman ruled Manila while Raja Lakandula lorded over Tondo. With these contrasting claims of previous historians, it is my belief that Raja Matanda was another person as asserted by Henson's work on the genealogy of the Muslim Filipino rulers which states that Sulaiman I, the founder of Manila, son of Lontoc and grandson of Noble Araw from Brunei had three sons; Sulaiman II, Matanda and Lakandula.
Raja Lakandula (1503 - 1589)

Lakandula, the ruler of Tondo and sovereign chief of the Tagalog people, was a native of Tabungaw, Bulacan and was born on December 16th 1503 A.D.[9] He was the lord and principal chief of Tondo and surrounding towns whose natives paid him tribute, vassalage and other recognition. The ships coming from China similar paid tributes and anchorage fees to him. The natives could buy anything only from him and for which he gained much profit. His parents and grandparents must have established or maintained relations with other ethnicities and principalities; and he must have been taken along and introduced to other chieftains during his youth.

His first contact with the Spaniards was during the arrival of Legaspi and his fleet in Cebu in 1565 A.D. During his first meeting with Legaspi, he was suspicious of their motives. After being informed of their objective and realizing their superiority in civilization and the advantage that their friendship would bring to his people, he did not hesitate in pledging his loyalty to, and cooperation with the Spaniards. Moreover, he took other lords of his relatives and their vassals to render obedience to the King of Spain with much fidelity and desire. In this connection, Galang says:

Lakandula made treaty with Legaspi, helped him construct houses, a church and a convent, and a fortress equipped with 14 guns and 12 pairs of powder, which were introduced in the Philippines even before the coming of the Spainards.[10]

In return for friendship and cooperation, Legaspi granted him and his descendants various privileges such as exemption from the tribute and forced labour. In 1574 A.D., he gathered his warriors and revolted against the Spaniards because of displeasure over the latter's oppression. This trouble was aggravated by the attacks of the Chinese pirate, Limahong. Dr. Zaide reports:

To save the situation for Spain, Father Geronimo Marin and Marshall Juan de Salcedo ,two Spaniards beloved by the Filipinos, pacified the aged Lakandula and assured him that the rights of his people would be respected. On these terms, Lakandula and his men laid down their arms and aided the Spaniards against the Chinese invaders.[11]

Lakandula died on March 21st 1589 A.D. after the war against Limahong. The Spanish Governor of Manila Lavezares gave him a solemn funeral, fired cannons, sung novenas and the Spanish commanding officers carried his coffin. According to Salonga, he and Macapagal[12] are descendants of one of the most prominent Filipino leaders who fought for freedom during the Spanish regime. He said that early in February, 1986 A.D., before the people power revolution in the Philippines, Macapagal had shown him a document which illustrates their family trees and that their ancestor was Raja Lakandula.[13]

When the Spaniards represented by Goiti and the Filipinos led by Rajas Matanda and Lakandula entered a treaty of friendship, one of the provisions was to grant forever to the legitimate heirs of the two rajas exemption from personal services and other tributes. However, only three governors-generals complied; taxes and personal services were imposed on their descendants by subsequent governor-generals.

It should be recalled that Raja Lakandula fled to Pampanga to avoid aiding the Spaniards in the conquest of northern Luzon. His heirs decided to make a petition asserting their hereditary rights and one of the petitioners was P. Macapagal. Governor Claveria's decree of 1849 A.D. required the addition or change of second names in order to avoid confusion. However the Macapagals stuck to their ancient lineage and were one of those who had native names and this remained unchanged even after 1849. When the Spanish government finally rendered justice to Lakandula's heirs their petition, most of the beneficiaries were surnamed Macapagal.[14] Hence, it could be concluded, that Diosdado Macapagal was a descendant of Raja Lakandula, notwithstanding the fact that the Kingdom of Tondo during the latter's reign consisted not only of present-day Tondo but also Pampanga, Bulacan and Nueva Ecija.
Raja Sulaiman III (1558 - 1575)

He was Raja Muda which means 'crown prince or heir apparent.' The Spaniards referred to him as 'Raja Solimano el mow.' He was Raja Matanda's heir and nephew. The Spanish military authorities had charged him with conspiring with Brunei forces to take advantage the Limahong invasion in Manila in November 1574 A.D.[15]

According to Henson, he was the third Sulaiman to rule the Islamic Kingdom of Manila. The first was Sulaiman I, a grandson of Emperor Anka Widjaya, the last King of Majapahit and Empress Sa Saban of the Kingdom of Sapa (now Sta. Ana, Manila)[16] He married Princess Ysmeria and they had three sons; Sulaiman II, Matanda and Lakandula. After Sulaiman II died, he was succeeded by his son, Sulaiman III. After some time, Martin de Goiti, Legaspi's master of camp, and the Spaniards arrived in Manila Bay in 1570 A.D., Raja Sulaiman III and his aging uncle were ruling the Kingdom of Manila. It is interesting to note that Raja Sulaiman III married a Brunei princess, a daughter of Sultan Abdul Kahar.[17]

It was also claimed that Sulaiman (Sulaiman bin Mahmud) was the fourteenth successor of Raja Ahmad, who reportedly established the Islamic principality of Manila in 1258 with temporal power covering Luzon and the Visayas. Moreover, Raja Ahmad was from Brunei and had vanquished Raja Avirjirkaya of Manila, who was supposed to be under the suzereinty of Madjapahit Empire.[18]

Spanish accounts described him as haughty, malicious and high-flown in speech. After a blood compact with Legaspi, he kept his word for a while because he was informed that tribute would be exacted from them, so he would not allow the Spaniards to enter his territory. Due to this misunderstanding, Goiti arranged for another meeting where they made a friendly compact. The natives drank the blood of Goiti mixed with wine and the latter did the same. Thus, the friendship was established on the terms that the Muslims of Manila were to support the Spaniards who came to settle there and that they should not pay tributes.[19]

It was not long thereafter when Sulaiman III started to attack the Spaniards and their Visayan allies who immediately retaliated and burned the town. Whatever be the immediate cause, there seemed to be misunderstanding in the parties' negotiations because their communication was through an interpreter. His reasons for fighting were obvious, for which he said:

'I will not break my promise; I must protect my people from abuses: and I, must preserve the freedom of my country.'[20]

After Goiti left, Sulaiman III rebuilt his town and made plans to arrange a mutual defense strategy with Lakandula, but the latter disapproved the idea. When Legaspi and his men return to Manila on May 15th 1571 A.D., he was received by Lakandula but not by Sulaiman III, who upon the intercession of the former presented him later, and then Legaspi declared him as vassal of the King of Spain. However, Sulaiman III cooperated half-heartedly in the pacification of the neighboring territories.

In 1574 A.D., Manila was attacked by Limahong and this gave Sulaiman III the chance to overthrow Spanish rule, not by joining the Chinese invaders, but by recruiting men from neighboring towns and leading a revolt. He gathered his forces along the northern shore of Manila Bay and they were met by the Spanish force. It was described that the inferior arms of the natives were easily swept by the superior weapons coupled with the persistent courage and fierce resolution of the Spaniards.[21] This battle occurred in Navotas and considered sometime by contemporary writers as the first battle of Manila Bay and in which Sulaiman III was killed.
Bibliography

A. Henson, Mariano, 'Genealogy of the Rulers of Central Luzon', Manila, 1955.

Barrows, Davids P., A History of the Philippines. Indianapolis, 1905.

Dumaual, Rocio R, 'Heroes of Early Times,' Sunday Times Magazine, January 2nd, 1955.

Galang, Zoilo M, Encyclopedia of the Philippines. 1st. ed. (Vol. 2), 2nd. ed. (Vol. 3, c1950, c1951), 3rd ed. (Vol. 18, c1958).

Manuel, E. Arsenio and Magdalena A. Manuel, Dictionary of Philippine Biography, Vol 4, 1995.

Mendez, Paz Ponciano, A Few Memories of President Diosdado Macapagal, 1985.

Rasul, Jainal D., 'The Philippine Muslims: Struggle for Identity,' Manila: Nueva Era Press, Inc., 1970.

Rizal, Jose, Political And Historical Writings, Manila: National Historical Commission, 1964.

Rodil, Romeo D., The Relations of Brunei and Manila During the Sixteenth and Seventeenth Centuries. Unpublished M.A, Thesis, Universiti Brunei Darussalam, Bandar Seri Begawan, 1996 - 1997.

Santiago, Luciano P.R., 'The Houses of Lakandula, Matanda and Soliman (1571 - 1898): Genealogy and Group Identity,' in Philippine Quarterly of Culture and Society, 18 (1), 1990.

Zafra, Nicolas, Readings in Philippine History, Manila: University of the Philippines, 1956.

Sultan Bolkeiah of Brunei also known as Nakhoda Ragam or Raja Baguinda of Sulu and Maguindanao married the daughter of Raja Gambang, the vanquished ruler of Lusung Kingdom, the kingdom known to them as Selurung (Manila). Their descendants include Lakandula and Soliman, the Ruler of the Kingdom of Manila.

Sultan Bolkeiah's own words translated into Tagalog
http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/7446/Ragam.htm

Ako'y Si Ragam

Salin sa Pilipino ni Clodualdo del Mundo



Ako si sultan Bulkeiah sa Borneo, na naghahari mula sa lungsod ng kapayapaan, Dar es Salam, sa dalampasigan ng Brunei. Sa Magindanaw at sa Sulu, na kinakikitaan ng unang liwanag ng walang katulad kong asawa, Emperatris Lela Men Chanei, ay tinatawag akong Raha Baginda. At ngayon, dito sa Maynila ay ako ang Sultan at Emperador

Makalawang ulit nang sinalakay ng aking hukbong-dagat ang Selurung, na tinatawag ninyong Lusung, at ngayon ay ako ang nagwagi at nakapanakop. Ang mapanghamig na si Datu Gambang, ang inyong yumaong puno, ay wala na, at ang isang prinsesa mula sa kanyang angkan ay aking pinakasalan upang maipagpatuloy ang dinastiya ng Pasig. Ang magiging anak nami'y siya ninyong magiging maginoo, at dahil sa inyong pamimitagan sa kamaharlikaan ng lipi, alamin ninyo na ako'y kalipi ng dakilang Iskander, ang Alejandro ng malayong Europa, na ang reyna'y anak ni Porus, ang lalong matapang na Indyo, kahinlog ni Sang Sapurba na nagtawid-dagat sa Haba at ang mga kaanak ay namuno sa Johore, pook na pinangyarihan ng pagkuha sa maharlikang prinsesa upang maging kaisangpuso ng aking kanunu-nunuan, Tuan alak ber Tatar. Sa aking mga ugat ay nananalaytay ang dugong Arabe ni Hassim, ang tunay na propeta na maawain at mapagpaumayang Allah. Nasa-akin din ang dugong Intsik, dahil sa isang prinsesa ni Kina Balu, at sa loob ng limang daang taon ay laging suot ng mga hari ng Brunei ang dilaw na kasuutang imperyal bilang pagkilala ng emperador ng Tsina. Malaon na kaming nag-iingat ng mobat at mga batingaw mula sa Malaka at Menangkabaw, mga palamuting pangmaharlika ng mga Indiyo at Islam.

Nguni't higit sa aking pagiging hari ay ipinagmamalaki ko ang sa aki'y karapat-dapat na katawagang Nakoda, sapagka't sa pag-uugit sa isang sasakyang-dagat ay wala nang dadaig pa sa akin, at ang aking ga paraw ay nakasagupa na sa mga unos na namayani sa lalong nag-aalimpuyong dagat, at ikinararangal kong masabing sa aking mga ugat ay dumadaloy ang dugo ng isang Bisaya. Tuwing dadalaw sa aking kaharian ang mga sugong Intsik at Arabe, ang pinakamahalagang palamuti nila'y ang mahabang chawat, na laging itinataas sa harapan ko ng apatnapu katao. Kapag iyo'y ibinigkis ko sa aking baywang upang humanda sa pakikitalad, ang pagkakabigkis ay maayos at ang paghahamok ay laging pinagtatagumpayan.

Mula sa Malaka hanggang Maynila ay kilalaang lahat ang pangalang Nakoda Ragam na kanilang pinanganganinuhan, sa kabila ng aking pagiging maharlika. Kaya, mga tauhan sa kailugan ng Lusung , huwag kayong magkulang sa inyong tungkulin sa aking magiging anak, ang inyong raha, at huwag ninyong kaliligtaang magbuwis ng ginto taun-taun sa Brunei bilang panahon ito ang Pulo ng Ginto.

source: http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/3674204

Bolkiah

Sultan Bolkiah was the fifth Sultan of Brunei. He ascended the throne of Brunei upon the abdication of his father, Sultan Sulaiman. He ruled Brunei from 1485 to 1524. His reign was known as the Golden Age because Brunei became the superpower of the Malay archipelago. Under Sultan Bolkiah, Brunei prospered further, but he was still unsatisfied with Brunei's progress and ordered all his chiefs and ministers to seek new ideas to develop Brunei further. He frequently travelled abroad to broaden his outlook and increase his knowledge for the development of his country. The new ideas he brought back to Brunei were ordered to be studied in detail and pursued for implementation for the benefit of his people and country.

Sultan Bolkiah's victory over Sulu and Selurong (now Manila), and marriages to Princess Lela Mechanai (the princess of Sulu) and to the daughter of Datu Kemin, widened Brunei's influence in the Philippines. This increased Brunei's wealth as well as extended Islamic teachings in the region. The influence and power of Brunei reached its climax during the reign of Sultan Bolkiah.

Sultan Bolkiah was succeeded by his son, Abdul Kahar, after his death. He was buried in Kota Batu with his wife, Princess Lela Mechanai.

Background

Austronesian is a linguistic family spread in most areas of the Southeast Asia, the Pacific Ocean, and the Indian Ocean. Based on their linguistic similarity, this linguistic family included Malayo-Polynesians and Taiwan aborigines. The linguistic similarity also led to the controversial hypothesis that Taiwan is the homeland of all the Malayo-Polynesians, a hypothesis that has been debated by ethnologists, linguists, archaeologists, and geneticists. It is well accepted that the Eastern Austronesians (Micronesians and Polynesians) derived from the Western Austronesians (Island Southeast Asians and Taiwanese), and that the Daic populations on the mainland are supposed to be the headstream of all the Austronesian populations.

Results

In this report, we studied 20 SNPs and 7 STRs in the non-recombining region of the 1,509 Y chromosomes from 30 China Daic populations, 23 Indonesian and Vietnam Malayo-Polynesian populations, and 11 Taiwan aboriginal populations. These three groups show many resemblances in paternal lineages. Admixture analyses demonstrated that the Daic populations are hardly influenced by Han Chinese genetically, and that they make up the largest proportion of Indonesians. Most of the population samples contain a high frequency of haplogroup O1a-M119, which is nearly absent in other ethnic families. The STR network of haplogroup O1a* illustrated that Indonesian lineages did not derive from Taiwan aborigines as linguistic studies suggest, but from Daic populations.

Conclusion

We show that, in contrast to the Taiwan homeland hypothesis, the Island Southeast Asians do not have a Taiwan origin based on their paternal lineages. Furthermore, we show that both Taiwan aborigines and Indonesians likely derived from the Daic populations based on their paternal lineages. These two populations seem to have evolved independently of each other. Our results indicate that a super-phylum, which includes Taiwan aborigines, Daic, and Malayo-Polynesians, is genetically educible.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=2408594&blobname=1471-2148-8-146-1.jpg

read more: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2408594

as far as I know, Cebuano English speakers are better than the Tagalog speakers. in is and es issue, naa ra na kasagaran sa mga wa kaayoy grado.

tagalog speakers oftenly speak SPEED as ESPEED, SPACE as ESPACE, SPECIAL as ESPECIAL, etc.

Yah!!! I agree with you. I have a cousin from Manila (already working as a call center agent there) who applied to our call centers here in Cebu. I was surprised that she was not even get hired here. Though she had already an experience in Manila, still, her English is incomparable to ours. Cebuanos indeed speak better English than Tagalogs.

I have also a friend from Cebu who had always been rejected to any of our call centers here when she tried to apply. To my surprise, she was get hired at Eperformax Manila when she applied there. LOL.

She said, "Call centers here in Manila are not that tough".

Based on observations, call center agents from Cebu can speak American or British accent better than those from Manila.

^^
:runaway:

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Yah!!! I agree with you. I have a cousin from Manila (already working as a call center agent there) who applied to our call centers here in Cebu. I was surprised that she was not even get hired here. Though she had already an experience in Manila, still, her English is incomparable to ours. Cebuanos indeed speak better English than Tagalogs.

I have also a friend from Cebu who had always been rejected to any of our call centers here when she tried to apply. To my surprise, she was get hired at Eperformax Manila when she applied there. LOL.

She said, "Call centers here in Manila are not that tough".

Based on observations, call center agents from Cebu can speak American or British accent better than those from Manila.

ang di ko makain sa mga tagalog is when they say cycle, bicycle, tricycle, popsickle. the ending "kill" is very annoying to the ears knowing that the native speakers of english dont say that but they continue to say it because according to them that's how it is in manila. in other words they stick with what they learned from their teachers.

i just heard jessica soho say "quadrangle"

Akademiyang Bisaya launched, in effort to promote language (http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/akademiyang-bisaya-launched-effort-promote-language)

THE Visayan Academy of Arts and Letters Foundation Inc. (Akademiyang Bisaya), which aims to preserve and develop the Visayan/Cebuano language, was launched yesterday at the Parklane Hotel in Cebu City.

Former transportation and communication secretary Jesus Garcia Jr., whose father and namesake founded the group in 1995, said it is now time to move forward in promoting Bisaya and its right usage.

Garcia, Sun.Star Publishing Inc. president, said the academy will invite language experts in Central Visayas to join them and take part in the development of the Visayan/Cebuano language, chiefly spoken in Cebu, Bohol, Siquijor and Negros Oriental.

The English-Visayan dictionary, which is already in circulation, is the first project of the Akademiyang Bisaya.

Garcia said the promotion of one’s native language is the promotion of our culture, hence the theme: “Halaman ug Pinulongan ko, Kabilin ug Kinabuhi Ko” (My Culture and my Language, My Heritage and My Life).

It is made more imperative now, said Cebu Provincial Government media consultant Sam Costanilla, because the new breed of high school and college students can no longer speak fluent Bisaya, but a mixture of English, Tagalog and Cebuano.

Cordova Mayor Adelino Sitoy, Akademiyang Bisaya president, said it is sad to note that the young people of today cannot speak either straight English or unadulterated Bisaya.

When he was dean of the University of Cebu’s College of Law, he also observed what Costanilla pointed out.

The Visayan/Cebuano version of the “Nasudnong Awit” or national anthem was played during the launch.

Sitoy said there is much to be done in developing and reconciling the Visayan/Cebuano dialect.

For example, he said, the Boholanos added the word “jamo” to the word “wala” (none), so that instead of just saying “wala,” they say “wala jamo.”

In the same gathering, Department of Education (DepEd) 7 Director Ricaredo Borgonia presented Department Order 74, series of 2009, which institutionalized the “mother tongue-based multilingual education.”

Research has shown that the level of development of a child’s mother tongue is a strong predictor of their second language development, he said.

Children with a solid foundation in their mother tongue develop stronger literacy abilities.

Borgonia added that more than 12 local studies made between 1948 and 2009 recommended that a learner’s first language be used as his medium of instruction.

Leonora Dotillos of the Cebu Normal University and Professor Allan Espiritu of the University of the Philippines in the Visayas Cebu College’s department of computer science, who attended the launching, expressed willingness to join the group.

The guests included the National Artist Jose Abueva, former Cultural Center of the Philippines president Balt Endriga, lawyer Manuel Faelnar and Dr. Warfe Tupas Engracia.

As part of his presentation, Borgonia said the DepEd has decided that the National Achievement Test (NAT) will be administered in Grade 1 for school year 2009-2010; Preparatory and Grades 1 and 2 in 2010-2011; Preparatory and Grades 1, 2 and 3 in 2011-2012.

The NAT given to Grade 6 students in 100 schools throughout the country will be in Filipino and English, Borgonia said.

10 napilian sa folklore writing sa Sun.Star Superbalita, Smart (http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/10-napilian-sa-folklore-writing-sa-sunstar-superbalita-smart)

NAKAPILI na ang tulo ka mga hurado og 10 ka mga estorya sa bangga sa pagsuwat og Sugbuanong kasugiran kun folklore.

Nakapasar sab sila sa pakisusi nga gihimo sa mga researcher nga gipangulohan ni Prof. Madrilena de la Cerna sa University of the Philippines in the Visayas Cebu College (UPVCC) Central Visayas Studies Center sa miaging buwan

Ang indigay sa pagsuwat og kasugiran gipasiugdahan sa Sun.Star Superbalita ug Smart Communications, Inc.

Sun.Star accepts donations for victims of Typhoon Ondoy

Tumong niini mao ang paggama og labing unang libro sa kasaysayan sa literaturang Sugbuanon sa kasugiran nga gisuwat usab sa pinulongang Sugbuanong Bisaya.

Mga hurado mao sila si Professor Emeritus Dr. Resil B. Mojares sa University of San Carlos; Dr. Romola Ouano-Savellon, museum curator sa Cebu Normal University (CNU); ug Grace Ferreros sa BRIGHT Academy ug Kidslife Foundation.

Ang napilian nga mga entry mao ang mosunod: Buayahan ni Elaine O. Versoza; Si Kan, ang agta nga dangas og agtang; Gikaibgan sa Dili Ingon Nato ni Nilo S. Ejercito; Dakit sa Catmondaan ni Glecerio P. Ares, Jr.; Linaw sa Naukban ni Christian Salta; Bahad ni Joven, ni Rey Briccio A. Alesna; Kahoy sa Bolbolan ni Aileen M. Anoba; Barangay Sirao ug Pung-ol ni Carla Mae Sumalinog; Maria Tang-an o Maria Kakaw ni Judith L. Abellanosa; ug Carmen Rbia ni Homer V. Landiza.

Ang sugilanon ni Kan kabahin sa estoryang karaan sa usa ka agta nga nahigugma sa usa ka dalaga sa Caduawan, Tabogon, Sugbo samtang ang estoryang “Bahad ni Joven” may kalambigitan sa kasaysayan sa Sugbo kay naglakbit sa kinabuhi sa rebolusyonaryong si Pantaleon Villegas nga mas naila nga si Leon Kilat.

Ang “Gikaibgan sa Dili Ingon Nato” kabahin sa kasinatian sa usa ka drayber sa traysikol nga gikaibgan sa usa ka engkanto nga babaye. Ang sugilanon nga “Buayahan” naghubit usab sa sugilanon sa usa ka sityo sa lungsod sa Medellin nga ginganlan og Buayahan.

Sama sa ubang mga dapit sa Sugbo, nailhan sab si Maria Tang-an o Maria Kakaw sa lainlaing dapit nga mao say gibasehan sa sugilanon sa usa mga entry nga napilian. Gisaysay sab ang gugma tali sa usa ka mananagat sa Pilar, Camotes ug sa prinsesa sa mga engkanto sa Leyte sa kasugiran sa Linaw sa Naukban.

Pipila lang kini sa mga sugilanon nga mabasa sa libro nga “Matod Pa sa Lola Ni Noy Kulas” nga ilusad unya sa ika-15 nga anibersaryo sa sa Sun.Star Superbalita unya sa Oktubre 23, 2009.

Ang kalihukan ipahigayon sa hapon sa mao nga adlaw sa Casa Gorordo Museum sa may dan Lopez Jaena, siyudad sa Sugbo.

Ang mga magsusuwat sa mga entry nga mingdaog gidapit sa pagtambong sa mao nga makasaysayanong kalihukan. (REV)

Akademiyang Bisaya launched, in effort to promote language (http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/akademiyang-bisaya-launched-effort-promote-language)

THE Visayan Academy of Arts and Letters Foundation Inc. (Akademiyang Bisaya), which aims to preserve and develop the Visayan/Cebuano language, was launched yesterday at the Parklane Hotel in Cebu City.

Former transportation and communication secretary Jesus Garcia Jr., whose father and namesake founded the group in 1995, said it is now time to move forward in promoting Bisaya and its right usage.

Garcia, Sun.Star Publishing Inc. president, said the academy will invite language experts in Central Visayas to join them and take part in the development of the Visayan/Cebuano language, chiefly spoken in Cebu, Bohol, Siquijor and Negros Oriental.

The English-Visayan dictionary, which is already in circulation, is the first project of the Akademiyang Bisaya.

Garcia said the promotion of one’s native language is the promotion of our culture, hence the theme: “Halaman ug Pinulongan ko, Kabilin ug Kinabuhi Ko” (My Culture and my Language, My Heritage and My Life).

It is made more imperative now, said Cebu Provincial Government media consultant Sam Costanilla, because the new breed of high school and college students can no longer speak fluent Bisaya, but a mixture of English, Tagalog and Cebuano.

Cordova Mayor Adelino Sitoy, Akademiyang Bisaya president, said it is sad to note that the young people of today cannot speak either straight English or unadulterated Bisaya.

When he was dean of the University of Cebu’s College of Law, he also observed what Costanilla pointed out.

The Visayan/Cebuano version of the “Nasudnong Awit” or national anthem was played during the launch.

Sitoy said there is much to be done in developing and reconciling the Visayan/Cebuano dialect.

For example, he said, the Boholanos added the word “jamo” to the word “wala” (none), so that instead of just saying “wala,” they say “wala jamo.”

In the same gathering, Department of Education (DepEd) 7 Director Ricaredo Borgonia presented Department Order 74, series of 2009, which institutionalized the “mother tongue-based multilingual education.”

Research has shown that the level of development of a child’s mother tongue is a strong predictor of their second language development, he said.

Children with a solid foundation in their mother tongue develop stronger literacy abilities.

Borgonia added that more than 12 local studies made between 1948 and 2009 recommended that a learner’s first language be used as his medium of instruction.

Leonora Dotillos of the Cebu Normal University and Professor Allan Espiritu of the University of the Philippines in the Visayas Cebu College’s department of computer science, who attended the launching, expressed willingness to join the group.

The guests included the National Artist Jose Abueva, former Cultural Center of the Philippines president Balt Endriga, lawyer Manuel Faelnar and Dr. Warfe Tupas Engracia.

As part of his presentation, Borgonia said the DepEd has decided that the National Achievement Test (NAT) will be administered in Grade 1 for school year 2009-2010; Preparatory and Grades 1 and 2 in 2010-2011; Preparatory and Grades 1, 2 and 3 in 2011-2012.

The NAT given to Grade 6 students in 100 schools throughout the country will be in Filipino and English, Borgonia said.

maayo unta nga kanang NAT sa grade 6 in Filipino or English kay madisadvantage atong mga estudyante ana kay maayo ug bisaya base na ang filipino dili man.beside english is used in almost all subjects other than the teaching of languages. but the establishment of the visayan academy is a good start para ipalambo ang pinulongan binisaya sa atong mga classrooms. we cebuanos are better off if we are bilingual in bisaya and english than bilingual in filipino and english. we have to insist on our mother tongue as part of the teaching instruction in the lower grades. to appease the national government, himoon nalang na ang filipino ug elective kon kinsay gusto kay naa man pud uban gusto moadto mo trabaho sa manila kana mapahimuslan nila.

I will buy this dictionary next time. I have a pocket Cebuano-English dictionary here authored by CS Canonigo.

I was present on this activity and very amused to learn a lot of Cebuano vocabularies. Not contented nipalit na lang sab ko ining English - Visayan Dictionary which so far maoy pinakadakong Cebuano dictionary nga akong nasugatan. This is a 1214 pages dictionary with more that 66,000 words in it, whew! Atty Jesus Garcia of Sun Star donated the books to representatives coming from school institutions.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/eskeryon/DSC08545.jpg

Want to learn Cebuano?
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/eskeryon/DSC08551.jpg

hahaha...weird kaayo akong birthday month! :lol::lol:

unsa'y quiling gani? gikan man na sa word na kiling-kiling sa?

hahaha...weird kaayo akong birthday month! :lol::lol:

unsa'y quiling gani? gikan man na sa word na kiling-kiling sa?

Your birth month let me wonder why it started with letter "Q". Did our ancestors already had this letter before the Spanish came? How about letter "C"?

By the way, medyo malisyoso kaayo ang Cebuano term sa weekdays. Mora'g phases siya sa usa ka intimate encounter... :lol:

Katapusan, kay Ligid-ligid man gud na, kay kapoy baya.

^^
hahaha.... na mubalik napud ta anang istoryahana bai @slip...hahah

basin kiling-kiling na unya nahimo na lang quiling kay basin napublish ang libro during the spanish times.

Ako lang irepost diri akoang rants sa Should the Philippine Flag be changed nga thread kay naghago ko ug essay writing unya pagpost nako giclosed ra dayon ang thread hahaha. Relevant man sad hinuon ani nga thread so okay ra cguro.:lol::lol:

Don't run into that safe corner bai! We know we are all Pinoys, and that's why we argue here because we want to earn our share in being a Pinoy (because we have to contribute to be called Pinoy and not just accept what identity is forced upon us). The whole grudge is the result of an act which had been already done several decades ago! Of course, I don't think it is fruitless to continue arguing if the said decision was unwise and unfair (considering, that, and this is the sirang plaka part, Cebuano was a major language and still is!) because what would have happened and would happen if we just sat still and watched things go pass us by?

Tagalog-speakers don't do well to argue against this because they/you are not the aggrieved party! Because, you don't really understand (unless you are Cebuano yourself, I think). And no, I don't think its your fault, because as I have said, the act was commited long before you were born (before we were born!) And also, no, I dont think the Cebuanos are the only aggrieved party here but the other languages as well (and I am quite appalled by the passivity which they pass for adaptability, and nod contentedly to themselves as possessing the golden virtue of a cooperative Filipino citizen). Someone asks,
"why is it only Cebuanos are making such a fuss out of this whole thing?". I ask the opposite, why shouldn't you?!! Why is it only Cebuanos who are crying out?! Bicolano is also suffering the same fate.

The issue is, if the same thing were to happen today, would you have done the same thing? Create a legislation for an artificial national language that HAS to be taught in all schools (while the local language isn't = the sore thumb here really) which is 90% or so (figure is not exact I know, but you get the drift) based on Tagalog?!

From your defensive arguments, it seems to me that you would. Because, I don't get the impression that you think that decision was unwise. There doesn't seem to be any admittance, but only defense. But well I really hope that you think otherwise and wouldn't do the same thing.

And no, I am not after Cebuano being taught in all schools around the country (because that is quite a grand example of hypocrisy there). But that I would assert that it is my right to be taught my own language in a formal setting. This is what Tagalophones have a hard time getting. That just because we speak Cebuano, we are functionally literate and that Cebuano is alive and well (and the other Philippine languages too). No, its sad to say that it is difficult to write in Cebuano properly because we are not taught this in school, and majority of Cebuanos would agree with me on this. In my case, I am even more confident of my grammar in Tagalog/Filipino than in my native Cebuano and when it comes to spelling and writing. Because we are not taught Cebuano in school. And that is not only that. More than 95% (I would even say close to 100%) of us young Cebuanos don't know these lovely and funny words as mundane as the days of the week and the name of months in Cebuano:

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh168/eskeryon/DSC08551.jpg


These words are lovely because the names are so much meaningful than the prosaic January or Enero, because they represent a way of life. They tell a story interwoven with the daily rhythms and seasons (for example October is BagyoBagyo which really IS the typhoon season, and SUnday is LiguidLiguid which means to roll and relax). That makes me really sad. This is our heritage. But we are losing this, because we are not taught this at the basic school. And you cannot say we are too stubborn just because I want to learn my language in school. Because I want to write in it too (and I only started truly writing in it at 23 years old!). Se, we don't really have a choice but to learn only Tagalog or Filipino (because they really mean the same thing to us, though I know the difference but maybe not enough to warrant statistical significance hehe) and English in school, and use Cebuano outside with the subconscious notion that ours is an insignificant and inferior language because it doesn't warrant being taught at all.

Because you want me to be a proud Filipino doesn't mean I will shed off my being Cebuano and Waray. I am proud to be Pinoy, but I cannot think of being a Pinoy without being a Cebuano (it is like being an Asian, but profoundly being Filipino first). And when I say I am a Pinoy but I am not a Tagalog, it doesn't mean I hate Tagalogs and I will be accused of being too regionalistic. It's just a fact that I happen to be a Cebuano and a Pinoy. I am Pinoy, and so are the Tagalogs, Ilocanos, Ilonggos, and so on (I apologize for those lumped under so on, I am just citing some other random examples).


Not OT part:
I actually think a plain circle for the sun would be more beautiful, decent and fair to all parties. It means that there are no provinces favored and that all are equal in being called Filipinos and being part of the Philippines. Visually, the simple circular sun just seems so much better too. And no, I am not really against the idea of changing some aspects of the flag, because flags do change and evolve and so did our own flag undergo changes that reflected our identity, ideas and sensibilities as a FIlipino. A circle sends this signal that we have matured from a luzon-centric (or should I say Greater Manila-Centric) concept of the Philippines and the Filipino, into a more inclusive one. That all Filipinos are equal in the claim of being called Filipinos, that we all earned to be Filipinos. And the fact that we put that in the flag says something.

^^Sakto na nga imong gi-repost diri bai @bakasaurus...Nindot pud kaayo basahon imong argument bai.

Maka-ligid ligid pud ta og ahat ani... :lol:

^^
:lol::lol::lol::hahaha::rofl:

Why is Cebuano banned in Pinoy Big Brother?
SHOOTING STRAIGHT By Bobit S. Avila (The Philippine Star) Updated October 23, 2009 12:00 AM
http://www.philstar.com/Article.aspx?articleId=516633&publicationSubCategoryId=67

I’ve been receiving a lot of emails from irate Cebuanos questioning that ABS-CBN Reality TV show dubbed “Pinoy Big Brother” about those Cebuanos currently in this game who are prevented to speak in the Cebuano language. These emails are calling upon all blue-blooded Cebuano speakers (and there are many of them in the Visayas and Mindanao) to condemn this action by the management of ABS-CBN because this is curtailment of our Freedom of Speech or Freedom of Expression.

I got this text message from my good friend Atty. Manuel Lino Faelnar, co-convenor for Language and Culture of the Subsidiarity Movement International and vice-president of the Defenders of Indigenous Languages of the Archipelago (DILA) Phils. Foundation, Inc., director of Lubas sa Dagan Bisaya, Inc. (LUDABI) and member of the Linguistic Society of the Philippines, who once worked with the Asian Development Bank (ADB). Here’s his text in full:

“If the members of the PBB show’s screen family are Bisaya, they shud be allowed to speak Binisaya among themselves. Makes d show realistic. It is unnatural for them to be speaking Tagalog as they don’t do this in their real homes. ABS-CBN shud learn a page from Mel Gibson who made Jesus & companions speak Aramaic in his movie. Also, forbidding d Bisaya screen family to speak Binisaya is a violation of their human rights.”

Indeed, the Philippines is a signatory of the United Nations Human Rights Act which guarantees people their right to speak their mother tongue. Perhaps ABS-CBN executives despite their being so thorough in their newscast haven’t read this provision yet? I’m confused about the policies of ABS-CBN regarding language because their local Cebu radio DyAB is done in Cebuano and I guess they do the same things in other parts of Mindanao. So why should Cebuano be disallowed in Pinoy Big Brother when in truth, not all who watch this reality TV show know how to speak in Tagalog?

I hope that ABS-CBN executives would realize that what’s happening in Pinoy Big Brother is very anti-Filipino; after all, aren’t we Cebuanos Filipinos also? I do not believe that that this act of banning Cebuanos from speaking their native tongue is a policy of ABS-CBN. For all we know, it is just one of the directors of PBB who is making this order. I hope that this problem can be rectified soon . . . before this becomes even an election issue.

The reality behind reality shows... :)

I am proud of those contestants who are using their first language, Cebuano, despite being in the middle of Tagalog-based show... :okay:

And i hope, it's not misunderstood as being regionalistic...We are Cebuanos anywhere and anytime... :)

We are Cebuanos anywhere and anytime... :)

:okay: i agree

they(PBB management) should allow these people/housemates to speak in their local dialects. in line with this, the PBB management should also provide a subtitle for non-cebuano viewers.

The reality behind reality shows... :)

I am proud of those contestants who are using their first language, Cebuano, despite being in the middle of Tagalog-based show... :okay:

And i hope, it's not misunderstood as being regionalistic...We are Cebuanos anywhere and anytime... :)

ako di gyud ko ganahan tawagon og regionalistic. unsa man diay nationalistic? diba we are a part of one nation? so no matter where you came from, no matter who you are and what you do for as long as you love it and you are proud of it, indeed you are nationalistic!

im sick with this issues that only when you speak in tagalog are you being tagged as nationalistic and when you speak non-tagalog you are already being accused as regionalistic.

ako di gyud ko ganahan tawagon og regionalistic. unsa man diay nationalistic? diba we are a part of one nation? so no matter where you came from, no matter who you are and what you do for as long as you love it and you are proud of it, indeed you are nationalistic!

im sick with this issues that only when you speak in tagalog are you being tagged as nationalistic and when you speak non-tagalog you are already being accused as regionalistic.

It's an issue that always pops out (never end hehehe). Even in NAIA thread, there was a debate in the use of Tagalog/Filipino in signage at the airport. Currently, it's all in English.

^^ Again, may I reiterate that if Cebuanos want to have Cebuano-language signs, then let them do so. ;)

Then again, the ABS-CBN move may be justified: out of 90 million Filipinos, only 20 million speak Cebuano, and it would be unfair on the part of non-Cebuanos if we would have no idea what the Cebuanophone housemates are saying. It would likewise be hard (and costly) to have to subtitle every utterance the Cebuanophone housemates have to say when they are fluent in (and are encouraged to) speak in one of two languages: English or Filipino (with an ironic preference for the latter).

However, I'm likely to believe that subtitling will come in another form: closed captioning (and I really hope this will come). :okay:

just like what big kuya said, magpapakatotoo ka! if your a cebuano, choose cebuano if your not comfortable with tagalog and that's being true to yourself. if they don't want it, then perhaps the next time they'd have another episode, wag na lang isali ang mga cebuano dahil matitigas ang mga ulo...hehe

^^ Big Big Brother. :lol:

It's inevitable that the Cebuano housemates will be included in an episode of PBB given that the show is done live. Perhaps ABS-CBN just doesn't want anyone fueling suspicion on what someone might say inside the Big Brother house. Things inevitably get lost in translation, and that's a gamble ABS-CBN is not willing to take with the PBB housemates.

^^
right! :lol:

If the ABS-CBN manangement wants to ban Cebuanos from PBB, better change the title of the show to Malaking Kuya and never ever air the [insert your expletive here] show outside NCR and Region 4.

Heck, I will agree the justification if all the winners of PBB are all Cebuanos (Keanna Reeves in Celebrity Edition 1 and Kim Chiu in Teen Edition 1) but unfortunately, it isn't.

^^ It's not like ABS-CBN is banning ethnic Cebuanos from participating.

Book celebrates Cebu’s stories (http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/book-celebrates-cebu%E2%80%99s-stories)

A BOOK was launched yesterday as part of efforts to revive the children’s love of reading and to preserve Cebu’s myths, tales and traditions.

For its 15th anniversary, Sun.Star Superbalita, in partnership with Smart Communications, launched the Cebuano storybook “Matod Pa sa Lola ni Noy Kulas.”

“This is a gift for the children. The purpose behind this book is to reawaken their love for reading Cebuano folklore, especially now that it is almost vanishing,” said Atty. Jane Paredes, senior manager for public affairs of Smart Communications.

Children from the Buagsong Elementary School and the PLDT-SMART Gawad Kalinga Village were invited to the launch and given copies of the book, apart from being treated to a story-reading session by the musician-artist Errol “Budoy” Marabiles and theater performer Chai Fonacier.

Featured in the book are 10 winning entries out of 48 stories submitted in a competition.

These stories are “Ang Buaya ug ang Bitin” by Elaine Versoza, “Si Kan, ang Agta nga Dangas og Agtang” by Fred Fuentes Monternel, “Gikaibgan sa Dili Ingon Nato” by Nilo Ejercito, “Ang Gikali-sangang Dakit sa Catmon-daan” by Glecerio Ares Jr., “Ang Linaw sa Naukban” by Christian Salta, “Ang Kamatayon ni Leon Kilat” by Rey Briccio Alesna, “Ang Kahoy nga Bolbolan” by Ailee Anoba, “Ang Pung-olanan sa Ulo” by Carla Mae Sumalinog, “Ang Kasugiran ni Maria Tang-an o Maria Cacao” by Judith Abellan-osa, and “Kinsa si Carmen Rubia?” by Homer Landiza.

Aside from the hard copy of the book, the stories can also be accessed via Sun.Star and Smart web-sites: www.sunstar.com.ph/superstorya, www.doonposaamin.ph, www.smartschools.ph/SmartSchools/News/MatodWinners and www.smartschools.ph/SmartSchools/Multimedia.

The launch was also supported by the University of the Philippines in the Visayas Cebu College-Central Visayas Studies Center. (PDF)

^^ Again, may I reiterate that if Cebuanos want to have Cebuano-language signs, then let them do so. ;)

Then again, the ABS-CBN move may be justified: out of 90 million Filipinos, only 20 million speak Cebuano, and it would be unfair on the part of non-Cebuanos if we would have no idea what the Cebuanophone housemates are saying. It would likewise be hard (and costly) to have to subtitle every utterance the Cebuanophone housemates have to say when they are fluent in (and are encouraged to) speak in one of two languages: English or Filipino (with an ironic preference for the latter).

However, I'm likely to believe that subtitling will come in another form: closed captioning (and I really hope this will come). :okay:


that's not right. ABS-CBN should hire a translator and they better put subtitles at the lower portion of the screen.

there are more Cebuano speakers than Tagalogs. so if they speak Cebuano, a lot of people can still understand. having subtitles can help the non-Cebuano speakers to understand.

puede man na e boycot. ka bati sad ana nga show, mga oa ra kaayo.

^^ I don't think it's meant just for the general audience. Remember, the non-Cebuanophone housemates do not have translators to rely on. ABS-CBN doesn't want anything lost in translation between the Cebuanos and the non-Cebuanos, as it would be unfair for the other housemates to not understand what the Cebuano housemates are saying whereas the Cebuano housemates would be able to perfectly understand what the others are saying in Filipino.

if i were big kuya, just be flexible enough to understand every housemate coz whats his purpose of making them inside when other housemates are not comfortable in his house. i mean with regards to language issues, why not kuya just leave housemates speaking their languages to people who can understand it and not trying to avoid it so that there wouldn't be issues later on of language discrimination and when the housemates meet as a group, english or tagalog na lang so that everybody can understand.

simple ra man na. why should they make things complicated!

^^ Because there's this scenario: what if you're making lait the other housemates in Cebuano? Or if you're gossiping about or backbiting the other housemates? Or you're spreading rumors or bad things against them? The non-Cebuanophone housemates certainly can't understand you, but the general public (well, at least the Cebuanophone general public) can, and it's not like those outside Big Brother's house can tell the non-Cebuano housemates what the Cebuano housemates are talking about. If you have any ill will against any housemate, don't just keep it to yourself and to your small circle of fellow Cebuanos. Be ballsy enough and tell the person!

Any attempt to cover up anything using other languages is just another catalyst for more discord and ill will in the Big Brother house.

Double post. :ohno:

^^
so cant kuya call that housemate using cebuano ba? ha? cant he not reprimand that cebuano housemate what he/she said?

simple! call his/her attention or even call the person he/she was referring and translate it to his/her for him/her to understand what the cebuano was saying against him/her.

simple as that!