Cebuano Language - Compiled Threads

[Mercato]

@mainstreamhunter,

Bai, there was also an explosive thread about Sakal created by our very own Ang Bantayanon late last year. That particular Judy Ann issue had passed but I’m afraid the mentality is still prevalent in the cheapo thrills media over there. Anything for a fast buck. I remember noontime shows are always resplendent with toilet humour and every other joke about somebody else’s physical appearance or ethnic “defects”.

This is indicative that something is fundamentally wrong with the current system where only one is propagated whilst the rest are relegated to an obscure background. Perhaps in due course, when mother tongues education is given its day and all regional languages are treated as equals, then a more balanced society we shall have. But until then, we can only hope for the giant IF.

On the flip side of the coin, it is also heartening to see a strong surge of Cebuano pride of place and patriotism. It is only through vigilance that we can guard and protect some hard won gains and progress.

I am curious, though. How did you encounter the name of Manny Faelnar, head of DILA/DILFED? Are you a member? Ganahan unta ko sa una moapil apan mahadlok sab ko ma-identify sa mga tigulang natong mga elders sa DILA (no offense tawon kay wala ra ba untay age discrimination sus) but then they can really speak deep Cebuano over there, too. Plus also deep Ilocano, Kapampangan, Ylonggo, etc. Still, I am procrastinating… :lol: :lol: :lol:

[MatudNilaBaby]

wala lagi ko kahibalo na naintriga ang sakal, sakali, saklolo...

Senator Pimentel Leads Protests Against 'Ethnic Slur' in a Filipino Movie

Sen. Aquilino Q. Pimentel, Jr., has taken up the cudgels for the numerous viewers who are offended by an “ethnic slur” in the Tagalog film, "Sakal, Sakali, Saklolo." Senator Pimentel said: "The film is conveying a wrong message to Filipinos by denigrating the use of the Visayan language, which is most-widely spoken in the Visayas and large parts of Mindanao. It offends the sensibilities of the Visayans and other non-Tagalog speaking citizens by making them feel they are less Filipino than the Tagalogs. It creates useless hatred in the nation."

To have a background on the controversy, here is Cebuano writer Bobit S. Avila, who wrote in his column, “INSIDE CEBU” last Friday, January 4, 2008:

“Last October, the whole Filipino community here and abroad vehemently expressed their indignation to the racist slur or remark by actress Teri Hatcher on an episode of the hit TV drama series Desperate Housewives where she insulted Filipino doctors who graduated in Philippine medical schools. That slur incensed the entire nation; after all, Filipino medical practitioners are highly sought-after in many Western countries, including the United States. The ABC network has since apologized for the offensive remark, making sure that it would never happen again.

“Well, if you think that since this incident, movie actresses would have stopped making racist remarks, you're dead wrong! Last Christmas, a movie entry in the Manila Film Festival, Sakal, Sakali, Saklolo, from my favorite movie producer Star Cinema featured a conversation between actresses Gloria Diaz and Judy Ann Santos, who was complaining that her child was learning to speak Bisaya from her yaya. She said, "Dapat Tagalog para Pinoy!" Translated, she was practically saying, "You should speak to the child in Tagalog, otherwise, it's not Filipino!" (Editor’s Note: The rest of the column of Mr. Avila is reproduced in its entirety at the end of this article.)

Among those who protested, aside from the officers and members of the DILA Philippines Foundation, Inc. (Defenders of the Indigenous Languages of the Archipelago) was Don Pagusara. Here is what Don sent to this writer:

Date: Jan 2, 2008 11:48 PM
Subject: Re: SAKAL, SAKALI movie racist and discriminatory
To: Manuel Faelnar

“Dear Manny,

“Grabe. . .! Bay, this is outrageous! We should broadcast (or at least register) our protest to this! Dili nato ni palabyon! Please ask Senator Nene Pimentel to find ways by which we can deliver to the concerned people our protest.”

The senator from Mindanao said that he was acting on numerous complaints from viewers offended by the slur. Mr. Pimentel said: "The film conveys a wrong message to Filipinos by denigrating the use of the Visayan language, which is most-widely spoken in the Visayas and large parts of Mindanao. It offends the sensibilities of the Visayans and other non-Tagalog speaking citizens by making them feel they are less-Filipino than the Tagalogs. It creates useless hatred in the nation."

Senator Pimentel said Filipinos, both Tagalog and Bisaya, should be outraged at the film's ethnic slur. "It should elicit the same, if not a louder howl of protest than the one brought against an American television series 'Desperate Housewives' wherein one of the characters made remarks maligning Filipino health professionals."

Mr. Pimentel said further: "The Tagalog joke about how the Bisaya speak Filipino and English with a funny accent. That's fine, we can live with that but to come out in the open and say that the only real Pinoys are those who speak Tagalog is wrong."


The senator mentioned the said episode in the American television series, “Desperate Housewives.” The episode was aired in the United States on Sept. 30, 2007, where the character Susan Mayer, as played by actress Teri Hatcher, told her doctor: "OK, before we go any further, can I check those diplomas? Because I would just like to make sure they are not from some med school in the Philippines."

Senator Pimentel said that Malacañang acted on the “Desperate Housewives” remarks and condemned the incident as equivalent to a racial slur. The Office of the President asked the show's producers to apologize to Filipino medical professionals for putting them down.



* * * * *

Nation: Ugly slurs from Teri Hatcher to Judy Ann!
INSIDE CEBU By Bobit S. Avila
Friday, January 4, 2008


I have always been in the forefront in the fight for respect for all spoken languages in this country and since this movie was already shown in many areas, allow me to say that Star Cinema ought to tell its screenplay writers and especially its actors that they should be extra sensitive in making such racist slurs or uncalled-for remarks that hurt the sensitivities of people living in non-Tagalog-speaking areas.

I would have written this article a week ago, but then few people read anything during the holidays, focusing only on their last-minute shopping. But the die has been cast. When actress Teri Hatcher made that racist remark last October, it sent a loud outcry across the Pacific Ocean that Filipinos would never tolerate such an offensive remark. This latest incident should also send a clear message not only to Star Cinema, but also to other Tagalog film production outfits and film producers as well that we, the Visayan-speaking people in this country, would never tolerate such snide remarks!

If we're not happy with actress Teri Hatcher making offensive remarks against Filipinos, I'd like to make it clear here that Cebuanos, too, won't tolerate a Filipino actress like Judy Ann Santos making insulting remarks about us Cebuanos. If there are no reactions yet from the provincial government of Cebu or Cebuano congressmen, it is only because we were in the middle of the Christmas break or recess. I'm sure that when our elected officials go back to work, this issue will be discussed.

Perhaps now is the time to remind our friends in the Tagalog-speaking areas that when that Portuguese explorer in the employ of King Charles I (he was later known as Charles V, Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire) or the Spanish Crown arrived in the Island of Cebu with the ship Armada de Molucca, he was met by Cebuanos. The settlements along the Pasig River were only discovered when 49 years later Spanish Conquistador Miguel Lopez de Legazpi came back to retrace (and to conquer Manila) the voyage of Magellan on this still unnamed archipelago, which was eventually named after King Philip II of Spain, who authorized the Legazpi expedition.

This brings us to the question, "Are the Bisayans, Kapam*pangans, Ilocanos, Pangasinenses, Bicolanos, Tausogs, Zam*boangueños, Ilonggos and Warays also not considered Pinoys?" Allow me to rephrase that question… "Is the Pinoy name reserved only for Tagalogs? Or should Cebuanos start talking about getting independence from the Philippines because we are not welcomed here anymore?" Judy Ann Santos ought to give us her reply to this query.

My friend Prof. Fred Cabuang, who is in the forefront in the struggle to preserve all the spoken and dying languages in this archipelago, wrote this: "When will we ever learn that being a Pinoy is not measured by one's ability to speak the Tagalog language only? Are the Bisayans, Kapampangans, Pangasinenses, Ilocanos, Bicolanos not worthy of being called 'Pinoys' too? Do our Bisayan athletic heroes who did well in the Southeast Asian Games in Thailand have to learn Tagalog well before they are considered 'Pinoys?'

"What about world-renowned Manny Pacquiao, does he have to learn Tagalog well, too, before he can be called a real 'Pinoy' hero? And surely, nobody will question the pride of Pampanga, our beloved President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo and her father Diosdado Macapagal; did they become 'Pinoys' only when they learned to speak Tagalog?" When will Pinoys learn and realize that the Philippines is a culturally-diverse country speaking different tongues?

daghang mga tagalog ang na offend sa desperate housewife episode about filipino doctors. tinuod man sab na ba nga dili sila kahib youalo mag ingles sa ilang pasiente. they speak in medical terms nga sila ra ang makasabot. diri sa america even if you are foreign train but if you know how to communicate to your patients in a language that is understandable to them ( that is everyday language or simple english) they dont mind if u earn your diploma from hell or heaven. terry hatcher was right in saying that they have to check the diplomas kay it could have been from a diploma mill in manila which is true nga dunay mo printa ug diploma dinha kon bisang asang university sa pinas ilang makopya. besides americans also checked the credentials of their own us trained doctors bago sila magpatan-aw labi na adtong mga dunay mga insurance. ug indigent lang nga dunay medical or medicare of course dili ka mamili ug doctor nga modawat nimo kay dunay ubang doctor nga mo accept lang ug pvt insurance. so kon pobre ka adto ka magyamokmok sa govt own hospital that takes you half a day to wait to get serviced. there were incidents nga mangamatay nalang ka ug himuwat

and speaking of native tongues. ayaw nalang gyud mo ug pagtugatuga ug translate anang math and science books into cebuano. maglisodlisod lang gyud mo nga wala man gamit especially kon matrabaho ka where english language is use predominantly at the work place. what we need to strengthen is to be proficient in the english language in speaking , writing and reading not just the literal translation of being "literate" that you know how to read and write but the question is did u understand what you are reading or writing in english. you add one important aspect which is comprehension which needs to be taught from the early years and not only when you take the college entrance examination.

bisan taga an mo ug studies dinha that the primary language is more effective ayaw lang mo ug tou kay kanang studies ilang gi publish dili studies about cebuano language being used as the language of instruction from elementary to college. nag tuo lang sila kay duna silay phd in linguistics they know the answers. what they dont know that studies can only be true within your population or subjects. kon tinuod ka nga social scientist dili dali dali nga mo acceptar ug studies about other indigenous language and culture nga imo lang i assume that it can be applied to the cebuano language as well. first you need a correlation study from one indigenous language to the cebuano language then you make a cause and effect study if the use of cebuano is really the best language to use in teaching.

walay komo sa proficient ka sa english kay bisan asa ka ibutang you can communicate with it. did you know that japan bought a university in colorado just for them to send their japanese students to learn english? unya moadvocate nahinoon mo ug using your first language or tagalog as the language of instruction? i for one dont have a formal cebuano language training but i sure can speak the language very well than my bali bali nga tagalog.

you might think that i was snobbish when i was a student in cebu. oh yeah my classmates and i never speak tagalog to our tagalog speaking classmates or kanang taga davao nga mag tagalig tagalig bisan ug bisaya sila. kon mag bakit bakit sila diyan bahala sila kay english speaking gid kami a mga true blue bisaya. they learned to speak english and bisaya. karon kami nasad ang mga tawa sa ilang bali bali na cebuano. isnt that a reverse tawanan? alegre pud biya.

another problem of using native languages as the language of instruction is when you take the board or bar exams. unsa ilang i translate to every indigenous language ang kada problem nga imong i solve or i explain mga linguistic specialists anong masabi ninyo dyan?

[Askal82]

Well too bad, Tagalog is the chosen language of the God of Filipino, so speak it b!tches!! :lol:

[Ang_Bantayanon]

Well too bad, Tagalog is the chosen language of the God of Filipino, so speak it b!tches!! :lol:

Hmmmm... non-Tagalog speakers are bitches.
Great. :ohno:

[mwg12a]

@ Matudnilababy, with due respect Americans do not treat Cebuano any different than the tagalogs, there are many instances where I have witnessed our american collegue to laugh at our Cebuano/na filipino collegues. There might be more bisaya who likes to speak english but they are no different than the tagalogs. One example I can relate to this and when I actually felt bad for a cebuana filipina when our fellow american coworker/ collegues wasn't able to help themselves but to laugh at her was that she repeatedly uttered the words "Let's blow the cake" instead of "blow the candle" in a birthday party. There are many times that they misused "in" for "on" , "she" to "he" and vice versa. When they pronounce "dick" for "deck". The english language deterioration amongst filipinos doesn't only confine to tagalog Manilenos, it goes all over the Philippines. So please "IHUNONG NA ANG PANGHAMBUG BAI!"

I can understand if someone is proud of their heritage but to put other people down because of their pride is totally unacceptable. I like Cebu and enjoyed being there but since I have been in SSC, there is nothing I hear anywhere the most except here where there are many bisaya has some major recentments towards the tagalog. I hear more attacks towards the tagalogs here than the tagalogs attacking the bisaya. I think you guys are just going way too sensitive about how the Philippine cinema is portraying bisaya or other provincianos in their movies. Sad part is it's more of the Cebuanos harboring hatred when somehow and from my understanding, the jokes in the Philippine movies portrays the provincianos in general. Katulongs usually comes from other Bisayan provinces and for some reason, the cebuanos are the ones reacting to these issue more than the other bisaya provincianos who are actually affected. I don't get???????? WHY SO MUCH HATRED?


I don't know, it seems like those places I have been in the US, the tagalogs , bisayas and other filipinos seems to be getting along well. It's only in places like California mostly and a little bit around NY the filipinos acted differently towards one another. What is wrong with filipinos? At times even your fellow tagalog or fellow bisayas doesn't get along. Good Lord when will all the filipinos would get back in their sanity???

When other the citizens of other countries in the world meet one another, they are united and they help one another, and yes, even the people from India whose languages and dialects are over a thousand, they also have conflicts on what languages they want to use as the main language in their country, whenever they are in another, they act as if they are one, they respect one another. How come the filipinos can't do these?

[Juan Pilgrim]

Well too bad, Tagalog is the chosen language of the God of Filipino, so speak it b!tches!! :lol:

Hmmmm... non-Tagalog speakers are bitches.
Great. :ohno:



:shocked::shocked::shocked:

:down::down::down:

:no::no::no:

:ohno::ohno::ohno:

[Sleepwalker]

@ Matudnilababy, with due respect Americans do not treat Cebuano any different than the tagalogs, there are many instances where I have witnessed our american collegue to laugh at our Cebuano/na filipino collegues. There might be more bisaya who likes to speak english but they are no different than the tagalogs. One example I can relate to this and when I actually felt bad for a cebuana filipina when our fellow american coworker/ collegues wasn't able to help themselves but to laugh at her was that she repeatedly uttered the words "Let's blow the cake" instead of "blow the candle" in a birthday party. There are many times that they misused "in" for "on" , "she" to "he" and vice versa. When they pronounce "dick" for "deck". The english language deterioration amongst filipinos doesn't only confine to tagalog Manilenos, it goes all over the Philippines. So please "IHUNONG NA ANG PANGHAMBUG BAI!"

I can understand if someone is proud of their heritage but to put other people down because of their pride is totally unacceptable. I like Cebu and enjoyed being there but since I have been in SSC, there is nothing I hear anywhere the most except here where there are many bisaya has some major recentments towards the tagalog. I hear more attacks towards the tagalogs here than the tagalogs attacking the bisaya. I think you guys are just going way too sensitive about how the Philippine cinema is portraying bisaya or other provincianos in their movies. Sad part is it's more of the Cebuanos harboring hatred when somehow and from my understanding, the jokes in the Philippine movies portrays the provincianos in general. Katulongs usually comes from other Bisayan provinces and for some reason, the cebuanos are the ones reacting to these issue more than the other bisaya provincianos who are actually affected. I don't get???????? WHY SO MUCH HATRED?


I don't know, it seems like those places I have been in the US, the tagalogs , bisayas and other filipinos seems to be getting along well. It's only in places like California mostly and a little bit around NY the filipinos acted differently towards one another. What is wrong with filipinos? At times even your fellow tagalog or fellow bisayas doesn't get along. Good Lord when will all the filipinos would get back in their sanity???

Cebuanos are part of a bigger Bisaya Group...A ridicule to Bisaya is a ridicule to Cebuanos....Why are we reacting like this? Because we don't like unfair branding of our group...Perhaps in SSC, it is seldom to see Tagalog bashing Bisaya or Cebuanos...But in real world, it's another story...And reality matters most.

I tried to be silent on this topic already, but as what i mentioned before, i don't expect this issue to fade away...As long as there are Cebuanos and there are those who don't understand the sentiments of Cebuanos, there will always be discussion like this.

I understand that Tagalog SSCers are good people...I have no doubt on that...But Tagalog SSCers are just a small fraction of the whole Tagalog populace..My guess is, there are still hundreds if not thousands of Tagalogs out there victimizing provincianos with there insults.

As for the "hatred" thing, it's just mere cause and effect. If insults/discrimination is normal, then "hatred"/"resentment" is also normal...There is nothing bad about it.

That's how i see things.

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

When other the citizens of other countries in the world meet one another, they are united and they help one another, and yes, even the people from India whose languages and dialects are over a thousand, they also have conflicts on what languages they want to use as the main language in their country, whenever they are in another, they act as if they are one, they respect one another. How come the filipinos can't do these?

bai, I can't answer your questions in the surest possible answer that I want kay mismo ako pud I really don't have a sure idea. my resentments towards the tagalogs is based from my real life experiences with them and plus the fact that media portraits it that way. Even though not all visayans may be affected with racists slurs, its good that cebu dares to resent because people seem to associate bisaya to cebuano more than the Ilonggos and Warays. Not all people/filipinos know and understand that being a bisaya is being an Ilonggo, a cebuano, a waray, and other related dialects. Now if we filipinos are sensitive about Terry Hatcher's ethnic statements, why can't our media be sensitive also to our ethnic groups? Its like media/tagalog is giving enough reasons for cebuanos to hate them even more.

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

SAVE OUR LANGUAGES THROUGH FEDERALIZATION

To the Honorable Representatives of the House:

"Your Honors We Urge You To Vote Against House Bill 1563."

We urge you to vote against a bill (House Bill 1563 authored by Gabriela Rep. Liza Masa, Bayan Muna Reps. Satur Ocampo, Teodoro Casiño and Joel Birador and Anakpawis Reps. Crispin Beltran and Rafael Mariano) filed to make 'Filipino' the main medium of instruction in Philippine schools.

The bill does not benefit our economy, and will eventually adversely affect the chances of our overseas workers in their job applications abroad, degrade our communication skills in the field of international business and trade, and lower our standards in the sciences. Some would even say that the bill is a subtle form of economic sabotage, and markedly contrasts to the revived efforts of our neighboring Asian countries such as Malaysia, Taiwan, and Japan to teach English to their populace, in an effort to boost their economy. The bill rationalizes that 'Filipino' is easier to learn than English; yet if we are to be consistent in the use of this logic, then the non-Tagalog languages are the easiest languages for their native peoples in their tradtional areas to use in their schools. Even the definition of 'Filipino' is subject to dispute.

Most serious of all, the bill is a direct threat to the existence of practically all of our ethnolinguistic peoples. A vote for this bill is a vote for the eventual extermination of the non-Tagalog languages and peoples of the Philippines. Please oppose it for the sake of our ethnolinguistic peoples.

In ever-increasing numbers each generation, parents are ceasing to teach their native language to their children right in their native areas, and migrants from the majority ethnic group do not learn the native language of the area that they migrate into. Such language niche grabbing, which is causing our native peoples to go extinct, can occur because of the majority privileged status that the Philippine State has given 'Filipino' speaking citizens. This Bill will, without a shadow of doubt, exacerbate this trend. Yet we, the non-Tagalog peoples of the Philippines are as Filipino as the Tagalog people. As one patriotic Cebuano would say, "I am 100% Filipino and I love Cebuano. Why discriminate against me and my people?" Indeed, why are we being subjected to linguistic ethnic cleansing in our own country?

It is natural and good that we respect the existence and diversity of the ethnolinguistic peoples of the Philippines. Without diversity, Creation would have no meaning. The diversity of Creation is natural and good. We, the peoples of the Philippines, have been in natural existence before the Philippines attained nationhood, and do not owe our existence to it, nor to the Spanish and American colonizers who defined its territory. When the Philippines was created, we have already been there, and we are an intrinsic part of it. We cannot accept a future 'Philippines' whose ethnolinguistic peoples, except one, have all been exterminated, and just imagining such an abomination makes our guts twist in horror. We, the peoples of the Philippines, have the right to exist.

Finally, and this is crucial to politicians, language, rather than simply provincial or regional origin, plays a key role in politics and elections The latest presidential elections, were particularly sharply divided along ethnolinguistic lines, and exploded the myth of the 'masa' vote (a phenomenon limited to the Tagalog Region). It goes on to follow that the expansion of one ethnolinguistic group, the one whose language is the basis of 'Filipino,' will inevitably have increasing political repercussions for the rest of the country.

Detailed information is given in the attachment hereto.



Respectfully Yours,



SAVE OUR LANGUAGES THROUGH FEDERALISM, Foundation, INC. (SOLFED)

* (SGD) Dr. Jose P. Dacudao, SOLFED National President
* (SGD) Valeriano S. Avila, SOLFED National Vice President, Private Sector Representative Regional Development Council 7
* (SGD) Reverend Father Joesilo Amalla, SOLFED National Executive Director and President Butuan Chapter
* (SGD) Atty. Manuel Lino G. Faelnar, SOLFED Vice President for Liason Metro Manila
* (SGD) Santiago Villafania, SOLFED Vice President for Liason Pangasinense, Business Manager - Ulupan na Pansiansia'y Salitan Pangasinan, poet of literary Pangasinense
* (SGD) Roderic Rama Poca, SOLFED Vice President for Liason for Cebu , Professor in the Department of Political Science University of San Carlos-Cebu
* (SGD) Rolando Espina, SOLFED Vice President for Liason for Negros, Member Negros Occidental Historical Society
* (SGD) Judith P. Buyco, SOLFED Vice President for Liason Panay
* (SGD) Honorable Francis Frederick 'One Ton' P. Palanca, SOLFED President Victorias Chapter, Vice Mayor Victorias City Negros Occidental
* (SGD) Timilou Feliz P. Guemo, SOLFED National Secretary, former Auditor UAP-SA Visayas

========================================================================

ATTACHMENT

Main Argument For Preserving Our Languages:

Language defines a people. A Visayan who cannot speak a Visayan language, even if he or she was born and grew up in the Visayas-Mindanao area, where there have been Visayans for more than a thousand years, is not Visayan. He has been cut off from an ancient cultural identity that remains one of the oldest in the world. Or how can a person be an Ilocano if he cannot speak it? You can't speak Kapampangan? Then you are not Kapampangan. Ditto for Bicolanos, Warays, and all the rest. Without our language, we have no culture, we have no identity; we are nothing.

No one can artificially create an ethnolinguistic people. Only the Creator can. The survival of our ethnolinguistic peoples in a Creation of diverse beauty is not even a matter of right or wrong but a matter of existence or oblivion. A hundred years from now, any debate as to whether the existence of an ethnolinguistic people is right or wrong when it has ceased to exist is completely inutile, because what is being discussed is already dead.

Likewise, any discussion on the so-called ancestral lands issue loses its essence when the ethnolinguistic people involved has ceased to exist because of the death of its language. For example, a Manobo is by definition as a person whose native language is Manobo. So how can you talk of the ancestral lands of Manobos when the Manobos have been obliterated with the death of their language? How can you talk about a people’s ancestral lands if the people do not exist?

Will you make your faces identical with those of your neighbors and seatmates just because an ideology says we all would look nicer if we had the same face? Of course not, as we were created with different faces and personalities. Similarly with languages, will we homogenize all Philippine languages just because an ideology says we ought to? Of course not! Instead we must accept that there is something wrong with that ideology, even if it has been taught to us since elementary school by a system that does not respect its own peoples.

The basic argument for preserving a people is the same as that for preserving a species, that is, a conscious decision to stand for the diversity of Creation. A renowned paleontologist once said: I can see and study the fossil bones of now extinct birds, but never will I see the colors of their feathers nor hear the sweetness of their songs. Costumes and artifacts are dead things we keep in museums and show to tourists, but the living soul of a people is its living identity carried by its language. A government that makes a minority people wear native costumes and dance in front of TV cameras for the sake of attracting tourists, but does not teach its language in schools, is utterly hypocritical and exploitative. If we are sincere in helping our ethnolinguistic peoples to survive, we must teach their language in schools in their traditional areas. Once a people is dead, we will never ever see the bonds that they formed, nor ever hear the melody of their tongue.

Another Argument For Preserving Our Languages:

There is another argument for preserving the diversity of Creation, albeit a more practical and perhaps selfish one. We can never know the possible future uses of a specific species or language. A plant that seems to have no practical use now may suddenly be the source of an important antibiotic in the future. The following are examples of the use of a specific language:

1. Some languages, especially those which are difficult to learn, can form the basis for codes. During World War II, the Americans suddenly found Navajo (a native North American tongue spoken by the Navajo people) a useful language in creating a code that the Japanese never broke, because Navajo is a difficult language to learn and no Japanese knew Navaho.

2. Some languages, which are intrinsically user-friendly, can form the basis of a trade or scientific language in the future if the need arises. A few examples: Latin is in some ways easier to learn for a non-native speaker than English, mainly because English has so many irregular verbs. Likewise, almost any Philippine language is intrinsically easier to learn for a non-native speaker than any Chinese language because of the tonal characteristic of Chinese languages, wherein differences in pitch distinguishes different meanings in what are otherwise the same words. As an example among Philippine languages, Hiligaynon, which is the closest linguistically related language to 'Filipino', is much easier for an outsider to learn than 'Filipino,' because Hiligaynon has a relatively simpler conjugation pattern.

Tagalog Nationalism:

The bill in issue is the epitome of Tagalog nationalism. Tagalog nationalism is a unitarian ideology based on the the precept of unity in uniformity. In brief, Tagalog nationalism tries to create a Philippines whose citizens all speak the same language. It is a nihilistic ideology because it annihilates the self respect of our natural peoples and eventually their very identities, and it is chauvinistic because it stomps on their dignity and promotes a pathetic sense of inferiority complex and colonial mentality amongst them. It turns all non-Tagalog Filipinos into second class citizens, and is hostile to their existence. It transgresses the language rights of the more than 150 ethnolinguistic peoples in the Philippines. It violates one of humanity's basic freedoms, one that is protected in our Bill of Rights, the freedom of expression.

The main issue here is the very survival of the non-Tagalog ethnolinguistic peoples of the Philippines, at least 3 of which have become extinct since 'Filipino' was forcibly rammed into our educational system in World War II, ironically by Japanese colonizers who wished us weaned off from English. Successive census figures show that practically all ethnolinguisitic peoples of the Philippines, except the one whose native tongue is 'Filipino,' is decreasing as a percentage of the population.

Tagalogs vs. Tagalistas:

The Tagalogs are an ethnolinguistic people, who have the right to preserve and develop their language. In the same context, so do other ethnolinguistic peoples in the country. For example, the Kapampangans also have the right to preserve and develop their language. Tagalogs and Kapampangans are equal, and are equal to the other Philippine ethnolinguistic peoples. The State should not institute laws and practices that will make one of them in social majority over the rest, as this will mean that the rest will become social minorities and second class citizens. More seriously, such a discriminatory policy eventually pushes the neglected languages into extinction.

Thus we are not against Tagalogs as an ethnolinguistic people. If by a twist of history, the Tagalog language becomes endangered sometime in the far future, we should come to their succor. On the other hand, Tagalistas desire to spread the ideology of Tagalog nationalism, unity in the uniformity of the Tagalog language. Tagalistas do not have to be Tagalogs themselves; there are many Visayan Tagalistas for example, native Visayans who adhere to Tagalog nationalism.

We love the Tagalog ethnolinguistic people for what they are. If the state were to legislate a law inimical to the existence of the Tagalog ethnolinguistic people, we surely would oppose it. On the other hand, Tagalistas do not respect the language rights of the peoples of the Philippines, and who, if they have their way, will kill off all the other ethnolinguistic peoples of the Philippines in the name of their perverted sense of nationalism. If we are to oppose a bill that is inimical to the existence of one of the peoples of the Philippines, the Tagalog people, surely we should oppose a bill that is inimical to all the peoples of the Philippines, except one.

Language vs. Dialect:

Is Filipino a separate language? Dialects are mutually intelligible versions of a language and cannot exist outside the context of a language. For example, Batangueno and Bulakeno are mutually intelligible tongues, and thus are dialects or versions of the same language, which we call Tagalog. Similarly, Cebuano exists as several dialects. Thus Cagayan Cebuano and Boholano are clearly different in accent, vocabulary, and idioms, but are mutually intelligible, meaning their speakers can understand each other without previous language lessons. Thus, Cagayan Cebuano and Boholano are dialects of the same language, which is called by linguists as Cebuano. On the other hand, no Tagalog dialect is mutually intelligible with any dialect of Cebuano. Thus Tagalog and Cebuano are two separate languages, and co-equal to each other.

All international linguists (including the linguists of the highly regarded Summer Institute of Linguistics in the Philippines), adhering to international standards, agree that Filipino is a Tagalog dialect. Filipino is mutually intelligible with all Tagalog dialects and mutually unintelligible with all non-Tagalog languages. Given the differences in vocabulary, grammar, syntax, idioms, conjugation patterns, and even accent and intonation that make each language unique, it is impossible to create a Filipino from all the Philippine languages without retaining each component language’s unique identity. Unity in diversity means giving freedom to the peoples that these languages define to preserve and develop their own languages. Unity in uniformity means killing all of them except one, whether that language is an existing one or an artificial one.

Are Our Languages Really Dying? Yes.

1. There is a dearth of literature and official use of the provincial Philippine languages. Many of these languages do not even have a written literature, and are not used in government and schools in their own territories. Residents can hardly read and write in their own language. New songs, movies, TV shows, essays, poems, and books are not being composed in the provincial languages, and the few that are being made, because of the minority status attached to them by state policy, are not being patronized by their own speakers.

2. National Statistics Office surveys shows that every Philippine ethnolinguisitic people is decreasing in percentage of the Philippine population, except the one that speaks 'Filipino' as its native tongue. When the natural birth rate of these peoples finally approaches zero, as is the trend at present, their absolute numbers will also decrease, eventually to extinction if we do nothing now.

3. minority peoples are losing territory fast to the center’s ethnolinguistic group. For example, Puerto Princesa in Palawan, which used to speak Cuyonon, no longer does, and the Cuyonons (a Western Visayan people) are becoming confined to a small group of islands off Palawan and will inevitably die out should we do nothing. Same story for the rest of the native Palawan and Mindoro languages. Likewise, the rich array of native languages of Romblon (including Romblomanon, Unhan, Asi, Odiongon) are dying out. Even traditionally big and influential ethnolinguistic peoples such as the Kapampangans of Pampanga and the Bicolanos of Camarines Norte are in the process of getting wiped out.

Banalities and Bogeys of Tagalistas:

A. Filipino is not a Tagalog dialect. Wrong. It is. This has been answered above. Tagalistas often use this bogy, honey-coating one Philippine language (Tagalog) as “Filipino” to justify imposing monolingual uniformity in a way that avoids hostile reaction among the non-Tagalog peoples.

B. We need “Filipino” as a national language because we are one nation. There are three models that refute this banality.

1. It is an empirical fact that the USA does not have a national language (because any national language in the minds of the founding fathers of the USA infringes on an even more fundamental freedom, that of the freedom of speech and expression), and each local State is free to choose its official languages, or none at all. Thus there is no legal barrier to, say, the teaching of Spanish or a Native American language like Navajo. Many such native languages in North America, as well as Hawaii, are now being taught in the schools, and as a result their native speakers are fast increasing in numbers. This policy of teaching the minority languages in American schools has saved their peoples from extinction.

2. Many countries with a keener sense of justice have multiple official languages, in recognizance of their native peoples. For example, India has almost 20, Switzerland has four, etc. Why can’t we?

3. Many areas of the world, including pre-WW II Philippines, use a neutral language as a common means of communication for its leveling effect. (A neutral language is an outside language that is not spoken as a native language by any of the ethnolinguistic peoples in a common area.

Tagalistas insist that we need one common national language in order to communicate with each other, and this is simply false. It is an empirical fact that we, the peoples of the Philippines, have been communicating with each other for more than 300 years before there was a national language, and even long before there was a Philippines. How did 20th century Filipinos communicate before WWII? (It was ironically the Japanese who actually popularized Filipino in Philippine schools in an effort to wean us off from English). We used English, which happened to be the language of the American colonizers but which also fortunately happened to be the international language of science and trade, and multiple Philippine languages. If you were an Ilocano and went to trade in Cebu, you quickly learned Cebuano, and so on. Filipinos, including Tagalogs, respected the local culture of the region that they went into, by learning the native tongue. The usage of a neutral language like English also made for a leveling effect among Philippine languages; none was socially superior to the rest. Today, in many multilingual areas in Africa and Asia, English and French are used for their leveling effect, thus protecting the status of smaller ethnolinguistic peoples who would otherwise be pushed into oblivion had a neighboring tongue been imposed on them.

[MatudNilaBaby]

@ Matudnilababy, with due respect Americans do not treat Cebuano any different than the tagalogs, there are many instances where I have witnessed our american collegue to laugh at our Cebuano/na filipino collegues. There might be more bisaya who likes to speak english but they are no different than the tagalogs. One example I can relate to this and when I actually felt bad for a cebuana filipina when our fellow american coworker/ collegues wasn't able to help themselves but to laugh at her was that she repeatedly uttered the words "Let's blow the cake" instead of "blow the candle" in a birthday party. There are many times that they misused "in" for "on" , "she" to "he" and vice versa. When they pronounce "dick" for "deck". The english language deterioration amongst filipinos doesn't only confine to tagalog Manilenos, it goes all over the Philippines. So please "IHUNONG NA ANG PANGHAMBUG BAI!"

I can understand if someone is proud of their heritage but to put other people down because of their pride is totally unacceptable. I like Cebu and enjoyed being there but since I have been in SSC, there is nothing I hear anywhere the most except here where there are many bisaya has some major recentments towards the tagalog. I hear more attacks towards the tagalogs here than the tagalogs attacking the bisaya. I think you guys are just going way too sensitive about how the Philippine cinema is portraying bisaya or other provincianos in their movies. Sad part is it's more of the Cebuanos harboring hatred when somehow and from my understanding, the jokes in the Philippine movies portrays the provincianos in general. Katulongs usually comes from other Bisayan provinces and for some reason, the cebuanos are the ones reacting to these issue more than the other bisaya provincianos who are actually affected. I don't get???????? WHY SO MUCH HATRED?


I don't know, it seems like those places I have been in the US, the tagalogs , bisayas and other filipinos seems to be getting along well. It's only in places like California mostly and a little bit around NY the filipinos acted differently towards one another. What is wrong with filipinos? At times even your fellow tagalog or fellow bisayas doesn't get along. Good Lord when will all the filipinos would get back in their sanity???

When other the citizens of other countries in the world meet one another, they are united and they help one another, and yes, even the people from India whose languages and dialects are over a thousand, they also have conflicts on what languages they want to use as the main language in their country, whenever they are in another, they act as if they are one, they respect one another. How come the filipinos can't do these?

bai there's nothing wrong with trying to speak the english language maski wrong ang grammar or accent ok lang but at least you tried. that is not a form of pang hambug.

but tagalogs coming to cebu and still insist on cebuanos speaking to them in tagalog is a piece of crap mentality. when the cebuanos and bisaya go to luzon province perti na intawon practice practice ana sa tagalog kay aron ka masabtan sa taga manila not them trying to understand you. the same is true with ppl from luzon or mindanao. if they cant tackle the bisiya then mag english sila. in that way no philippine language is above the other likewise no filipino from any other region is above anyone else. we should stand on equal footing whether it be language or culture.

besides the english language is more convenient to use for the bisaya than trying to speak a bali bali tagalog which is not the predominant language in the region.

as far as i know when that episode of desperate housewife was aired, its the tagalog pride that was hurt na parang binali wala nilang mga prestigious school ninyo diyan sa maynila. the next day the embassy and consulate (run by the tagalog ) filed a petition right away. mahirap talagang manghambog nga graduate ako dito at diyan and they dont meet international standards. for the bisayan doctors i worked with, botong boto sila sa episode ng desperate housewife para talaga makita sa taga manila that our good there isnt good enough sa america. im not creating a

[MatudNilaBaby]

fight just trying to put things in context. peace with you my friend.

[Askal82]

bai there's nothing wrong with trying to speak the english language maski wrong ang grammar or accent ok lang but at least you tried. that is not a form of pang hambug.

but tagalogs coming to cebu and still insist on cebuanos speaking to them in tagalog is a piece of crap mentality. when the cebuanos and bisaya go to luzon province perti na intawon practice practice ana sa tagalog kay aron ka masabtan sa taga manila not them trying to understand you. the same is true with ppl from luzon or mindanao. if they cant tackle the bisiya then mag english sila. in that way no philippine language is above the other likewise no filipino from any other region is above anyone else. we should stand on equal footing whether it be language or culture.

besides the english language is more convenient to use for the bisaya than trying to speak a bali bali tagalog which is not the predominant language in the region.

as far as i know when that episode of desperate housewife was aired, its the tagalog pride that was hurt na parang binali wala nilang mga prestigious school ninyo diyan sa maynila. the next day the embassy and consulate (run by the tagalog ) filed a petition right away. mahirap talagang manghambog nga graduate ako dito at diyan and they dont meet international standards. for the bisayan doctors i worked with, botong boto sila sa episode ng desperate housewife para talaga makita sa taga manila that our good there isnt good enough sa america. im not creating a

I'm smelling inconsistencies here. So that means, its better to speak broken English than broken Tagalog?

[Ang_Bantayanon]

Shalan, abi ba nako Bisaya language thread ni.
Kadamo uroy nga tagawg diri.
Ara untay Bisaya-Tagalog, Tagalog-Bisaya speakers bashers' thread.
Naunsa uroy ini daw gusto man jud sini nila nga mag-tinagawg ang mga Bisaya
bisan dili gusto.
Shalan ba.
Wala na jud ni kahumanan ba.

[Sleepwalker]

Shalan, abi ba nako Bisaya language thread ni.
Kadamo uroy nga tagawg diri.
Ara untay Bisaya-Tagalog, Tagalog-Bisaya speakers bashers' thread.
Naunsa uroy ini daw gusto man jud sini nila nga mag-tinagawg ang mga Bisaya
bisan dili gusto.
Shalan ba.
Wala na jud ni kahumanan ba.

Pwera buyag, wala gud tawon ni kahumanan...Hehehehe

As for me, i don't have problem with Tagalog being the official language, di lang unta ta pugson...Parehas katong gi-pressure ang Cebu to stop singing the national anthem in Cebuano...Pastilan na lang gud.

I don't think Cebuanos are trying to be different from being Filipino...We are just trying to firmly stand on what defines us as Cebuanos...And that is our mother tongue, culture and history.

[Askal82]

Yeah, this thread got personal issues with Tagalog language that has something to do with Tagalog people instead of sharing the knowledge and information about the Bisayan language, culture and tradition.

Atik atik lang ba. :lol:

[Sleepwalker]

Unsaon man nato na, naglami man ang discussion... :)

[Ang_Bantayanon]

Linguistic imperialism na man ang gusto sa iban.
Aren't we allowed to have self-determination?
Others just erupt and brand us names.
So sad.

[habagatcentral1]

Sorry. I am for understanding cultures and at the same time asserting for the practice of vernacular language as a right...and anyway, there is no law banning the right to speak vernacular. So I have the right to speak my own language because I say so at the same time, trying to promote my language to other people to understand our culture...I see it like this.

Ergo, in my opinion...I would not partake in this regionalistic bash. I thank you! :D

Anyway, big brother is watching man pod so amping amping na ta....:D

[icarusrising]

^^but the publicity that the film made turned out to be a bad one..

and if I were Sen. Pimentel, I want the film to be banned..

That would be overreacting. I am generally against these kinds of mass media representations or misrepresentations but don't you think the film actually succeeds in becoming critical at least in that instance? Could it be that the filmmaker/scriptwriter/etc. contrived the dialog in such a way that it would make people think, react violently, and pursue change regarding the conceptualization of what is "Pinoy"?

[Wind Shear]

Sorry. I am for understanding cultures and at the same time asserting for the practice of vernacular language as a right...and anyway, there is no law banning the right to speak vernacular. So I have the right to speak my own language because I say so at the same time, trying to promote my language to other people to understand our culture...I see it like this.

Ergo, in my opinion...I would not partake in this regionalistic bash. I thank you! :D

Anyway, big brother is watching man pod so amping amping na ta....:D

Then why post? :lol:

[habagatcentral1]

^^ Kay ganahan ko...:lol: :nuts: :lol: Teh, bato ka? :lol: :nocrook: :jk:

Anyway, the intention of the thread is to create discussions about the language itself and not a proto-CvC bashing...Just wanna voice out my opinion. Period. ;)

[Sleepwalker]

O sige balik na ta sa atong original nga purpose ani nga thread.

Ang binisaya sa flying lemur kay kagwang...Karon pa ko

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

^^

:lol::lol:

malingaw gyud ko diri..dili boring and discussion kay flexible kaayo ang mga taw. sweet now mad later...:lol::lol:

[habagatcentral1]

By the way,

When do you use "maanyag" and "matahum"?

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

By the way,

When do you use "maanyag" and "matahum"?

i guess IMO, doesn't matter when you'll use it bai, just the same. pero IMO, maanyag is much more related to the person/girl, being beautiful, pretty and matahum for beautiful places, views. i hope that helps. :cheers::)

[Animo]

Linguistic imperialism na man ang gusto sa iban.
Aren't we allowed to have self-determination?
Others just erupt and brand us names.
So sad.

Para ma-klaro sa uban dinhi na dili lang sad ni sa mga Cebuanos. Apil sad sa mga Bisaya sa Mindanao. Parehas nako! :nocrook:

[boom_box]

O sige balik na ta sa atong original nga purpose ani nga thread.

Ang binisaya sa flying lemur kay kagwang...Karon pa ko

:lol::lol:

mao ba...? grabe jud ka laglum aning bisaya na mga words... haha..

OT:
naa lage uban mga tagalog mag discriminate sa atong mga bisaya...
ako sister na nag work sa Dubai kay naa siya ka trabaho nag discrimate didto.. ning ingon man daw unintentionally ug "Ay bisaya pala yan......":ohno:

naa pud uban sa forum (TipidPC).. naay ni ingon ug.. "Ang baduy naman manamit, bisaya ata yun...." :bash: :ohno:
daghan gud kaayo ning palag ato na comment sa forum...

ang uban pud kay... "Ang bisaya mo naman mag English..." ???? :bash: :ohno:

matud pa sa ako mama bahin sa mga tagalog... "Pang Lapuan nato ng mga tagalog aron ka tilaw sila unsay bisaya...." :lol:


wala ko nag tawag ug away bahin sa Tagalog ug bisaya ha..
nahibulong lang ko ani kung unsa jud kaha sinugdanan ani discrimination...

VVpeaceVV

[Sleepwalker]

:lol::lol:

mao ba...? grabe jud ka laglum aning bisaya na mga words... haha..

OT:
naa lage uban mga tagalog mag discriminate sa atong mga bisaya...
ako sister na nag work sa Dubai kay naa siya ka trabaho nag discrimate didto.. ning ingon man daw unintentionally ug "Ay bisaya pala yan......":ohno:

naa pud uban sa forum (TipidPC).. naay ni ingon ug.. "Ang baduy naman manamit, bisaya ata yun...." :bash: :ohno:
daghan gud kaayo ning palag ato na comment sa forum...

ang uban pud kay... "Ang bisaya mo naman mag English..." ???? :bash: :ohno:

matud pa sa ako mama bahin sa mga tagalog... "Pang Lapuan nato ng mga tagalog aron ka tilaw sila unsay bisaya...." :lol:


wala ko nag tawag ug away bahin sa Tagalog ug bisaya ha..
nahibulong lang ko ani kung unsa jud kaha sinugdanan ani discrimination...

VVpeaceVV


OK ra na mopahungaw ta diri sa atong mga pangutana bai...Wa pud ko kahibalo unsa sinugdan anang dumot sa Tagalog ug Bisaya...Pero sige lang, padayon ra ta sa atong kinaugalingon nga paningkamot.

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

:lol::lol:

mao ba...? grabe jud ka laglum aning bisaya na mga words... haha..

OT:
naa lage uban mga tagalog mag discriminate sa atong mga bisaya...
ako sister na nag work sa Dubai kay naa siya ka trabaho nag discrimate didto.. ning ingon man daw unintentionally ug "Ay bisaya pala yan......":ohno:

naa pud uban sa forum (TipidPC).. naay ni ingon ug.. "Ang baduy naman manamit, bisaya ata yun...." :bash: :ohno:
daghan gud kaayo ning palag ato na comment sa forum...

ang uban pud kay... "Ang bisaya mo naman mag English..." ???? :bash: :ohno:

matud pa sa ako mama bahin sa mga tagalog... "Pang Lapuan nato ng mga tagalog aron ka tilaw sila unsay bisaya...." :lol:


wala ko nag tawag ug away bahin sa Tagalog ug bisaya ha..
nahibulong lang ko ani kung unsa jud kaha sinugdanan ani discrimination...

VVpeaceVV

bai kaluoy pud nimo uy...:lol::lol: naluoy ko samtang nagbasa sa imong post... makahilak kaayo, murag nagbasa ko ug maalaala mo kaya...:lol::lol::lol:

bitaw, duh ambot ana nila uy, maytag buhi pa si tiyo Lapu-Lapu nako kay na pangtigbason gyud siguro na sila bai sa mahahit niyang sundang... sige lang alkanse man na sila natong mga bisaya kay pwede man nato sila malibak ug mabaligya! watch out! :lol::lol::lol::nocrook::jk:

[Mercato]

^^^^
@mainstreamhunter,
Na jala bai. Ang guipatik sa nauna nga articulo mao nga mother tongue cuno ang gamiton, unya sa ikaduha nga articulo (DILFED) lahi diay – balik diay guihapon ‘ta sa tinaga’wg nga mao’y medium of instruction? Dili ni maayo kay mahu’og diay ni’g panglimbong sa kamatuoran. Kinsa man kaha’y bakakon niani nila, tanawon ta na lang. Mahimuot baya kog basa sa mga halangdong lobenero diri sigue’g paburot burot sa ilahang mga dughan ug pasuwabe sa pagbati. Muajajaja, aww, wa’ay mahay ha sa ganahan molobener ngari. Bahala na lang mo’g apas sa binisaya, wa’ay daghang kiyawkiyaw. :lol: :lol:

[Mercato]

@ bai matudnilababy,
Matud nila dili kuno ta angay pa’ang magtuon sa atoang kaugalingong pinulongan kay tutal makat-on ra man guihapon kuno sa balay. Apan sultihan tika, ang labing tinuod nagsigue ug ka-decline ang atong sinultihan nga bisaya ug kon walay magpakabana, mawagtang ni ug mahu’og na lang sa damgo lamang.

Pananglitan kausa nagpatik kog average ra god nga binisaya post didto sa Cebu Thread 74. Sus ginoo, ana-ay mga batan-ong bisaya nga mityabaw kay dili makasabot ug dili makaapas kay taphaw ra kaayo ang ilahang nahibaw-an sa binisaya. Ambot naunsa kaha nang ilang lenguajeng gigamit.

Maayo man sa’b nang imohang tumong sa pagpalambo sa iningles apan para nako mas maayo nga ipalabi giud ang binisaya ikumpara sa tanang mga lenguaje, bisan ug itandi pa ni sa iningles – natural mag-una jud ang binisaya. :)

[Mercato]

Shalan, abi ba nako Bisaya language thread ni.
Kadamo uroy nga tagawg diri.
Ara untay Bisaya-Tagalog, Tagalog-Bisaya speakers bashers' thread.
Naunsa uroy ini daw gusto man jud sini nila nga mag-tinagawg ang mga Bisaya
bisan dili gusto.
Shalan ba.
Wala na jud ni kahumanan ba.
Para ma-klaro sa uban dinhi na dili lang sad ni sa mga Cebuanos. Apil sad sa mga Bisaya sa Mindanao. Parehas nako! :nocrook: Maayo ning pagkapares ang duha ka post.

@ bai AngBantayanon,
Ensacto pud ka sa imong danguyngoy. Con binisaya ni, sigue magbinisaya ta, wa’ay mahay sa mga tambaloslos nga ganahan caayong molovener ngari sa atoang dapig.

Apan ana-a koy pangutana. Ngano man cuno nga naa ma’y mga movement sa mga scholar karon nga tagud-taguron o di ba pikas-pikason ang binisaya sa ginagmay nga parte? Ang ilahang guihatag nga razon mao cuno ka’ay ang binisaya ni-undergo cuno ug daghan na caayong kausaban sa Mindanao. Ang ilahang claro nga tumong mao nga magtukod ug independiente nga Binisaya Cebu, Binisaya Bohol, Binisaya Davao ug uban pa? Wala pa gani hatagi ug chance ang Cebuano studies nga magmuna ug standardized binisaya mag-una ug magsugod na hinuon ang “Sugbuak” o pagbuak sa Pinulongang Binisaya?? Dili ni maayo para nako ug mahu’og ni’g catontojan sa mga kuwanggol.

A ver, con akoang balitokon ang argumento, kay ngano man diay, kita ra ba gud ang naa sa Mindanao? Dili man lamang uroy nga binisaya ra ang nagsuroy suroy diha sa Mindanao. Con mao na ang ilahang argumento, nganong dili man nila pod sugdan ug pagbuak ug pagtagud-tagud ang uban nga mga lenguaje nga napadpad sa Mindanao?? Angay pa ba god nakong isaysay con kinsa na’ang mga sinultihan nga naa karon sa Mindanao? Ngano man nga kita ra ang gitumong?

@Animo, kalibog ba niani ron. Tungod kay kita mitu-o man sa First Filipino Republic ug ang tanan nilang mga idealismo kaniadto, mao ni’ng nag-agwanta na lang ta nianing mga unity in diversity ug uban pang mga palami apan hastilan, aguy kalisud. Ojala, la lucha continua para siempre. :lol:

[Mercato]

Muigawas na pud na'ang word or expression nga Shalan.

I strongly believe it has Arabic origins. It is almost a deadringer for the Arabic "Insh'Allah", a famous Middle Eastern saying. It means "By the will of Allah" or "Allah/God willing"... :)

[Il Tenore]

That would be overreacting. I am generally against these kinds of mass media representations or misrepresentations but don't you think the film actually succeeds in becoming critical at least in that instance? Could it be that the filmmaker/scriptwriter/etc. contrived the dialog in such a way that it would make people think, react violently, and pursue change regarding the conceptualization of what is "Pinoy"?

hahay! this is the usual reaction of the so-called "true pinoy", defending what's wrong and opposing what's right..

to answer the question, it's yes..

they don't care of what they'll write about us, they make fun of it, they want the Tagalog Language to be the "True Filipino Language" and make other language "less or not filipino" at all!
anyway, if you'll ask me if I'm still proud to be a Filipino in a times like this, I will not be hesitant to answer 'no' to it..

[Wind Shear]

@Animo: Okay ra na, we are referring Cebuano as language. :-)

@Mercato: Basin mahimo sad nga "sosylanan", pinahiwi lang paglitok. :D

[Wind Shear]

And now for the dictionary. :D

Fish


1. iho - shark
2. barilis - tuna
3. awig, kasili - eel
4. danggit - rabbitfish (http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=4561)
5. tamban - sardine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardine)
6. anduhaw - bigeye scad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigeye_scad)
7. burot-burot - scad
8. pirit, tulingan - mackerel
9. hito - catfish
10. pugapo - grouper
11. bangus - milkfish
12. abo-abo - wavyline grouper
13. aguk-ok - walking catfish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking_catfish)
14. amamaspas - swordfish
15. apdohan, butete, tikong - pufferfish
16. baghak - coral trout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_trout)
17. banban - halfbeak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halfbeak)
18. bulinaw - anchovy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchovy)
19. katambak - sea bream
20. malasugi - marlin
21. mulmol - parrotfish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrotfish)
22. tambasakan - mudskipper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudskipper)

[habagatcentral1]

@ bai matudnilababy,
Matud nila dili kuno ta angay pa’ang magtuon sa atoang kaugalingong pinulongan kay tutal makat-on ra man guihapon kuno sa balay. Apan sultihan tika, ang labing tinuod nagsigue ug ka-decline ang atong sinultihan nga bisaya ug kon walay magpakabana, mawagtang ni ug mahu’og na lang sa damgo lamang.

Pananglitan kausa nagpatik kog average ra god nga binisaya post didto sa Cebu Thread 74. Sus ginoo, ana-ay mga batan-ong bisaya nga mityabaw kay dili makasabot ug dili makaapas kay taphaw ra kaayo ang ilahang nahibaw-an sa binisaya. Ambot naunsa kaha nang ilang lenguajeng gigamit.

Maayo man sa’b nang imohang tumong sa pagpalambo sa iningles apan para nako mas maayo nga ipalabi giud ang binisaya ikumpara sa tanang mga lenguaje, bisan ug itandi pa ni sa iningles – natural mag-una jud ang binisaya. :)

Usahay Mercato, pwirting lawuma imohang Sinebuano, nga maka-nosebleed usahay...peace! :D :nocrook:

Pero mao man na ang prevalent karon bisag asa nga ethno-linguistic groups sa Pilipinas kay dili na sila makasabot or mag-usar sa mga old words guikan sa language mismo, and instead mosagul na lang og loan words from other languages or usahay backwards pa. Younger generation tend to speak colloquial rather than the said "makata" in the Tagalog sense of utilizing the said archaic terms.

Sometimes the kids or younger generations would just stare blankly at you and trying to comprehend the archaic terms.

Let me ask all of you here, can you give us an example of an archaic Sinugbohanon word and its modern counterpart? More like "kasingkahulugan" in Tagalog quizes in which the student search for the archaic counterpart of the modern term:

Example: Nakaririmarim = Nakakatakot/Kagimbal-gimbal.

So that younger generations would know the language.

Thanks! :)

[demented_pigeon]

Usahay Mercato, pwirting lawuma imohang Sinebuano, nga maka-nosebleed usahay...peace! :D :nocrook:

Pero mao man na ang prevalent karon bisag asa nga ethno-linguistic groups sa Pilipinas kay dili na sila makasabot or mag-usar sa mga old words guikan sa language mismo, and instead mosagul na lang og loan words from other languages or usahay backwards pa. Younger generation tend to speak colloquial rather than the said "makata" in the Tagalog sense of utilizing the said archaic terms.

Sometimes the kids or younger generations would just stare blankly at you and trying to comprehend the archaic terms.

Let me ask all of you here, can you give us an example of an archaic Sinugbohanon word and its modern counterpart? More like "kasingkahulugan" in Tagalog quizes in which the student search for the archaic counterpart of the modern term:

Example: Nakaririmarim = Nakakatakot/Kagimbal-gimbal.

So that younger generations would know the language.

Thanks! :)

grabe i remember the play "Tanikalang Guinto" by Juan Abad written in 19th century tagalog the cast didn't even understand. I had to buy the Vicassan dictionary to understand my lines.

[Ang_Bantayanon]

Maayo ning pagkapares ang duha ka post.

@ bai AngBantayanon,
Ensacto pud ka sa imong danguyngoy. Con binisaya ni, sigue magbinisaya ta, wa’ay mahay sa mga tambaloslos nga ganahan caayong molovener ngari sa atoang dapig.

Apan ana-a koy pangutana. Ngano man cuno nga naa ma’y mga movement sa mga scholar karon nga tagud-taguron o di ba pikas-pikason ang binisaya sa ginagmay nga parte? Ang ilahang guihatag nga razon mao cuno ka’ay ang binisaya ni-undergo cuno ug daghan na caayong kausaban sa Mindanao. Ang ilahang claro nga tumong mao nga magtukod ug independiente nga Binisaya Cebu, Binisaya Bohol, Binisaya Davao ug uban pa? Wala pa gani hatagi ug chance ang Cebuano studies nga magmuna ug standardized binisaya mag-una ug magsugod na hinuon ang “Sugbuak” o pagbuak sa Pinulongang Binisaya?? Dili ni maayo para nako ug mahu’og ni’g catontojan sa mga kuwanggol.

A ver, con akoang balitokon ang argumento, kay ngano man diay, kita ra ba gud ang naa sa Mindanao? Dili man lamang uroy nga binisaya ra ang nagsuroy suroy diha sa Mindanao. Con mao na ang ilahang argumento, nganong dili man nila pod sugdan ug pagbuak ug pagtagud-tagud ang uban nga mga lenguaje nga napadpad sa Mindanao?? Angay pa ba god nakong isaysay con kinsa na’ang mga sinultihan nga naa karon sa Mindanao? Ngano man nga kita ra ang gitumong?


Higalang Mercato, ang akong nahibaw-an mao ra man gihapon ang paglipang sa dilang Binisaya. Daw wa mako makamatikod sinang imo gihisgotan. Ambot lang ayhan sa iban nga grupo pero masdamo man lang gihapon kitang mga nagamit sing Binisayang Sugbuanon.

Ang problema gud sing iban nga seripyente dinhi kay daw sila man lang ang Pilipinas kag gusto gayud nila nga molamoy ang iban sang ila kamahoan. Ara pud baya kita'y aton pinulongan tag identity, anhon man lang naton ini? Kung nabasa nimo ang pila ka post sini nga hilo gihinganlan kitag bitches. Kay nano man nga wala man lat naton sila gipugos sang aton. Gipalamoy ayhan nato sila magSinugbuanon? Wa gayud. Mao ina ang gisiling nga pildi ang maglagot. They think they're superior but if we refuse to bow down to them they get mad. Shalan ba uroy. :ohno: Maypa maglana sila'y putot. :lol:

_______

Bitaw, ang pulong nga shalan halin man sa "unsa man o unsa gud." Sa bukid na lang ina mabatian sara. Dili ina siya termino nga halin sang Arabic. :banana:

[Mercato]

^^^^ ang ako ba nga ang origin nianang "Shalan" maorag guikan jud na sa atong Arabic influence tingali. Comun man na siya nga sinultihan tingali ug dili lamang sa bukid gilitok.

Wa'a giud ta'ay mahimo sa mga hawod nga kagamhanan sa pagkakaron apan ipadayon lang guihapon ang pakigbisog para sa atong lengua natal. Paluib sa 'ta unya na lang manghasi inig kadaog nianang Federal United o unsa ba na. Ang uban gud anaa man giu'y malisang sa pagsigue'g pag-usbong sa garbo sa Binisaya/ Sugbuanon. :lol: :lol:
Usahay Mercato, pwirting lawuma imohang Sinebuano, nga maka-nosebleed usahay...peace! :D :nocrook:

Pero mao man na ang prevalent karon bisag asa nga ethno-linguistic groups sa Pilipinas kay dili na sila makasabot or mag-usar sa mga old words guikan sa language mismo, and instead mosagul na lang og loan words from other languages or usahay backwards pa. Younger generation tend to speak colloquial rather than the said "makata" in the Tagalog sense of utilizing the said archaic terms.

Sometimes the kids or younger generations would just stare blankly at you and trying to comprehend the archaic terms.

Let me ask all of you here, can you give us an example of an archaic Sinugbohanon word and its modern counterpart? More like "kasingkahulugan" in Tagalog quizes in which the student search for the archaic counterpart of the modern term:

Example: Nakaririmarim = Nakakatakot/Kagimbal-gimbal.

So that younger generations would know the language.

Thanks! :) Dili baya. Ambut lang kaha. Ang akong nahibaw-an sa Binisaya siempre ang binisaya sa Mandaue ug Cebu. Labi na sa kaniadto nagdako man ko ni Lola ug ganahan man siya mopalit nianang Bisaya Magasin. Dinha ra ko nakat-on sa mga medyo medium to deep words... :lol: :lol:

Pananglitan: (aww, wa'a sab ko anang "nakaririmarim"). Dili kaayo tantong lawom ni ug gigamit pa ni sila hangtod karon.

makalisang = makahadlok = makakuyaw = makakurat

:D :D

[habagatcentral1]

^^ Now that's nosebleeding! Hehehe!!! :lol: :okay:
Pero naa nga mga drama sa radyo nga usahay nosebleeding ang ila nga words nga gigamit...or basin wala lang ko naanad kay maybe because I for one is not a pure of any ethno-linguistic group except Filipino (mom is Ilokana from Zambo del Sur, dad is Ilonggo from Iloilo...grew up in several places in the country)...but at least I understand and speak...:D Hybrid pod...:D

[boom_box]

na lipong kog binasa sa inyong mga gi hisgotan.... :nuts: :nuts:

[Mercato]

^^ Ah! syaro! ang 4 words maka nosebleed para ninyong duruha?? They are so ordinary. The reason why radio dramas use such words is because they really give flair and well, drama giud par excellence. These also express the innermost sentiments of the Cebuano soul. :)

@habagatcentral1
Sagdi lang wala'y kaso sa hybrid. Both my parents are BisDak Cebuanos (Cebu island) apan I also spent time in Batangas (Ate Vi!!!!! muajaja) mao nga nakat-on sab ko ug law'om nga tagalog watching old black and white tagalog movies and listening to kundimans. :lol: :lol:

[Mercato]

@Animo: Okay ra na, we are referring Cebuano as language. :-)

@Mercato: Basin mahimo sad nga "sosylanan", pinahiwi lang paglitok. :D Porvida, di sa'b tawon ko nianang "sosyalan" intawon bai, oi... con unsa goy normal nga sinultihan sa mga dapig nga binisaya mao ra na, di ba? unsaon ko'g explain... a ver, tanawa na'ng name title ni Il Tenore.. Parejas man mi niana... kausa miduaw ko sa usa ka hilo dinhi. Sus ginoo, nanlimbawot ang akong balhibo!! Con nangita ka'g pinahiwi ang sinultihan o accent daghaaaan caayo didto. Makalagot kaau unya pagkalami pamuspusan ug martillo. Makaimagine ko's mga yabag didto dili lamang ang sinultihan ang hiwi hasta tingali ang ilahang mga kamot manglupad bisag asa, unya ang ilang mga ulo ug mga lubot mag-ikid ikid dayon,.. Waaaa! Buwiset mga amaw na tambaloslos pa! :nuts:
Di giud nako matu'on na'ng sosyalan oi. :lol::lol::lol:

[Sleepwalker]

Sa akong tantong pagpaminsar niining pulong nga "shalan" kay mora kini gikan sa pinulongan nga "unsa man ni", og gibaliko lang og gamay para molahi ang timpla niini. Kanunay ko nga makadungog niini gikan sa akong mga batan-ong kaparyentihan didto sa habagatang bahin sa Sugbo..."Unsyalan man ni oi!!!".

Speaking of dramas, sa akong tan-aw, morag maayo kaayo ang mga Sugboanong dramatorgo nga motagik og gilok nga pulong para lamang madani sa pagpaminaw ang mga katawhan....Usa ka sa mga tigpaminaw nianang mga drama sa DYHP sa unang panahon. Ug aduna gud ako nasag-ulo nga linya gikan sa dramang "Kini ang akong Suliran"...Ambot og buhi pa ba kining maong drama.

"...Busa kung kamo aduna mga suliran nga nag-umol sa inyong mga galamhan, suwata kana og ipadala ning atong istasyon, DYHP..."

Usa sa akong nabantayan nga dakong sayop sa uban mga bisaya kay kung magsulat sila sa word nga "ug" (and) ug "og"...Kasagaran kay ang "ug" ra ang gigamit sa mga tawo sama niini.

Sayop:

"Pagdala ug tubig ug posporo"

Sakto:

"Pagdala og tubig ug posporo" or
"Pagdala'g tubig ug posporo"

Kung atong makita, kinahanglan gud nga itudlo sa atong mga eskwelahan ang pagtagik sa atong mga lumadnong pinulongan, aron sa maong paagi dili kini inanay nga mawagtang.

Wala ako'y problema kung himoong lenguaje opisyal ang tinagawog...Pero dili lang gud unta nila ipamugos nga dili na gamiton ang binisaya sa eskwelahan, sama unta niadtong sinebuano nga version sa pagkanta sa atong national anthem ug provincial anthem.

[Wind Shear]

Bai,

Naa pud gidebatihan ang mga pulong UG ug OG (paklay kanding ko ani, otro pud ko). Nia ang panid gikan sa internet: http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tubaan/Arkibo_1#Virtudazo.E2.80.99s_Protest_on_.22OG.22

[habagatcentral1]

^^ Another one, when do you use "sa" and "og/ug"? I heard they can be used interchangeably?

[Animo]

Bai Bernie kung mogamit ka ug nosebleed puede nimo gamiton sungo.

Por ejemplo: Maka-sungo man ang uban ninyong sinultian.

Sa tinood lang, katong gamay pa ko ang akong mga kauban sa balay mahilig maminaw ug drama sa radio na cebuano. Kung ako lang ni hinumduman, maayo diay ni siya sa ako! :lol: Kay kahibalo ko na ang mga naga-paminaw ani gina-ingnan na bati kuno! :bash:

¡Viva la lengua bisaya!

:banana:

[Wind Shear]

^^ Another one, when do you use "sa" and "og/ug"? I heard they can be used interchangeably?

The word "sa" refers to an article of location.

Pananglitan/Halimbawa/Example/Por ejemplo:

Moadto ko sa Barangay Mabolo.
I will go to Barangay Mabolo.

Padulong na ko sa simbahan.
I'm going to the church.

He is at Colon Street.
Tua didto sa Dalan Colon.

The girl is inside the bedroom.
Ang babayi tua sulod sa kwarto.

The machine is outside the house.
Ang makina tua sa gawas sa balay.

[Sleepwalker]

Bai,

Naa pud gidebatihan ang mga pulong UG ug OG (paklay kanding ko ani, otro pud ko). Nia ang panid gikan sa internet: http://ceb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tubaan/Arkibo_1#Virtudazo.E2.80.99s_Protest_on_.22OG.22

Wala ko kahibalo ani nga debate da... :)

Pero sa akong nasabtan, mora og dili man mapatay ang "ug" sa "og", kay managlahi man ilang gamit.

Pero hinoon, di man ko banggiitan kabahin aning mga lengwahe.

[MatudNilaBaby]

Maayo ning pagkapares ang duha ka post.

@ bai AngBantayanon,
Ensacto pud ka sa imong danguyngoy. Con binisaya ni, sigue magbinisaya ta, wa’ay mahay sa mga tambaloslos nga ganahan caayong molovener ngari sa atoang dapig.

Apan ana-a koy pangutana. Ngano man cuno nga naa ma’y mga movement sa mga scholar karon nga tagud-taguron o di ba pikas-pikason ang binisaya sa ginagmay nga parte? Ang ilahang guihatag nga razon mao cuno ka’ay ang binisaya ni-undergo cuno ug daghan na caayong kausaban sa Mindanao. Ang ilahang claro nga tumong mao nga magtukod ug independiente nga Binisaya Cebu, Binisaya Bohol, Binisaya Davao ug uban pa? Wala pa gani hatagi ug chance ang Cebuano studies nga magmuna ug standardized binisaya mag-una ug magsugod na hinuon ang “Sugbuak” o pagbuak sa Pinulongang Binisaya?? Dili ni maayo para nako ug mahu’og ni’g catontojan sa mga kuwanggol.

A ver, con akoang balitokon ang argumento, kay ngano man diay, kita ra ba gud ang naa sa Mindanao? Dili man lamang uroy nga binisaya ra ang nagsuroy suroy diha sa Mindanao. Con mao na ang ilahang argumento, nganong dili man nila pod sugdan ug pagbuak ug pagtagud-tagud ang uban nga mga lenguaje nga napadpad sa Mindanao?? Angay pa ba god nakong isaysay con kinsa na’ang mga sinultihan nga naa karon sa Mindanao? Ngano man nga kita ra ang gitumong?

@Animo, kalibog ba niani ron. Tungod kay kita mitu-o man sa First Filipino Republic ug ang tanan nilang mga idealismo kaniadto, mao ni’ng nag-agwanta na lang ta nianing mga unity in diversity ug uban pang mga palami apan hastilan, aguy kalisud. Ojala, la lucha continua para siempre. :lol:

kanang "shalan" mora na siya ug contraction nga may pagkabinuang ba nga pagkasulti sa "unsaon man ba ni" somthing like that kay mga tawa man mi sa akong igsoong kon moingon na siya ug unshalan ba ni ur and now its shorten to shalan.

[Wind Shear]

Wala ko kahibalo ani nga debate da... :)

Pero sa akong nasabtan, mora og dili man mapatay ang "ug" sa "og", kay managlahi man ilang gamit.

Pero hinoon, di man ko banggiitan kabahin aning mga lengwahe.

Mao, ang kalainan aning duha ka pulog kay sinuwatan ug unsaon paggamit aning pulonga.

[Sleepwalker]

Mao, ang kalainan aning duha ka pulog kay sinuwatan ug unsaon paggamit aning pulonga.

Nakabantay man gud ko sa mga bisaya nga libro sa una or magazine, gigamit gud nila ang "ug" ug "og" sa sakto nga lugar.

Mao nang mas insakto gud nga itudlo pud tawon ning atong lumad nga pinulongan sa atong mga eskwelahan.

Nia gamayng bahin sa editoryal gikan sa Sunstar Online.

Bag-ong Tomas
Bobby Nalzaro
Sunstar Online (http://www.sunstar.com.ph/superbalita/11-07-2008/opinyon2.html)

Ambot og unsay nasulod sa utok sa mayor nga mipa-uli pa man gayod nga unta naglisod naman siya. Gawas pa ang kadaku sa gastu sa iyang pagbiyahe kay dili baya tiaw kana. Pila ka libo ang magastu nila ni Ginang Margot Osmena sa pamilite lang. Unya mobalik lang usab dayon. Hinoon, milyonaryo naman na sila.

Apan ang iyang kondisyon sa iyang panglawas mismo. Dili tiaw kanang mobiyahe ka ug taas-taas nga oras sa eroplano ug pagbalhin-balhin pa ug airport. Na-operahan na gyod na si Tomas unya nangandam pa sa lain unya nga operasyon sa iyang pantog gumikan sa urinary bladder cancer. Unsa ma gayoy gi-uli niya? Aron lang ipakita nga gimahal ug gimahal niya ang dakbayan sa Sugbo. Ingon siya niadto nga dili na kinahanglan nga mo-deliver pa siya ug SOCA kay nahibalo na ang mga Sugbo-anon sa iyang gihimo. Apan karon kalit lang na-usab ang iyang huna-huna.

DISCLAIMER : Dili tawon ko banggiitan sa mga lengwahe...Kung kinsa tong aduna mas hait nga kahibawo kabahin niini, palihog sa correct sa akong pagtoo. Interesado lang ko mokuha sa mga hunahuna sa mga banggiitan nga mga bisdak dinhi

[MatudNilaBaby]

Sa akong tantong pagpaminsar niining pulong nga "shalan" kay mora kini gikan sa pinulongan nga "unsa man ni", og gibaliko lang og gamay para molahi ang timpla niini. Kanunay ko nga makadungog niini gikan sa akong mga batan-ong kaparyentihan didto sa habagatang bahin sa Sugbo..."Unsyalan man ni oi!!!".

Speaking of dramas, sa akong tan-aw, morag maayo kaayo ang mga Sugboanong dramatorgo nga motagik og gilok nga pulong para lamang madani sa pagpaminaw ang mga katawhan....Usa ka sa mga tigpaminaw nianang mga drama sa DYHP sa unang panahon. Ug aduna gud ako nasag-ulo nga linya gikan sa dramang "Kini ang akong Suliran"...Ambot og buhi pa ba kining maong drama.

"...Busa kung kamo aduna mga suliran nga nag-umol sa inyong mga galamhan, suwata kana og ipadala ning atong istasyon, DYHP..."

Usa sa akong nabantayan nga dakong sayop sa uban mga bisaya kay kung magsulat sila sa word nga "ug" (and) ug "og"...Kasagaran kay ang "ug" ra ang gigamit sa mga tawo sama niini.

Sayop:

"Pagdala ug tubig ug posporo"

Sakto:

"Pagdala og tubig ug posporo" or
"Pagdala'g tubig ug posporo"

Kung atong makita, kinahanglan gud nga itudlo sa atong mga eskwelahan ang pagtagik sa atong mga lumadnong pinulongan, aron sa maong paagi dili kini inanay nga mawagtang.

Wala ako'y problema kung himoong lenguaje opisyal ang tinagawog...Pero dili lang gud unta nila ipamugos nga dili na gamiton ang binisaya sa eskwelahan, sama unta niadtong sinebuano nga version sa pagkanta sa atong national anthem ug provincial anthem.

mora ug sakto na imong interpretation sa shalan sleepwalker kay sometimes tapulan man sab tang mga bisaya ug atong gyud nga i sulti ang taas nga word based on syllables. pareho gud sa iningles nga watsamakulit as in what do u call it

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

IMO, ang "sa" kay maghisgot na ug lugar ug ang og/ug kay puede magamit sa "and" or sometimes it could be "that"...

ang "unshalan" kay murag gikan na sa "unsaon" na gipasosyal lang ug istorya para maatrear ang mga maminaw! :lol::lol::lol:

[Ang_Bantayanon]

Besides og and ug here's something that's frequently mistaken by young Cebuano speakers:

The case of nga and na.

Based on Wolff's dictionary (1972)

nga - grammatical marker. 3. between members of a two-headed endocentric construction. ex. Nindut nga sinina (A beautiful dress); Usa ka hungut nga tuba (A coconut shell full of palm toddy); Gihilasan ko nga namati sa iyang hambug (I was disgusted listening to his boasts), etc.

na - particle following the first word of the predicate. 1 now (so-and-so) is the case by now, will be the case by a certain point of time. ex. Ang akong kinamagulangan sayis anyos na. (My eldest son is six years old now), etc.

So it's wrong when you hear Kadtong trak na puwa kusog modagan. It should be: Kadtong trak nga puwa kusog modagan. Another example: Kanang balay na tisa sa Carcar. It should be: Kanang balay nga tisa sa Carcar. :banana:

[Ang_Bantayanon]

Here's a text joke which critiques not only the person concerned but may be interpreted as stereotyping. This is just for the sake of discussion so I will post the entire message.

RUFFA: Ma, idi-divorce ko na si Yilmaz. Gusto lagi an_l s_x, eh, my pwet is now the size of a P1 coin, dati 25 centavo coin lang.

ANNABEL: Rowfa u ar merid to a bilyoneir, u lib in an 18-bedrum house, u drayb a Perari, u get P200,000 alawans a wik & u want 2 trow ol dat away for a deferens of 75 sintabos?

The butt of joke isn't only Annabel but it stereotypes her being promdi by: 1. not being able to pronounce well; 2. being concerned more with money or being materialistic; 3. being an ignoramus or innocent.

[mwg12a]

bai, I can't answer your questions in the surest possible answer that I want kay mismo ako pud I really don't have a sure idea. my resentments towards the tagalogs is based from my real life experiences with them and plus the fact that media portraits it that way. Even though not all visayans may be affected with racists slurs, its good that cebu dares to resent because people seem to associate bisaya to cebuano more than the Ilonggos and Warays. Not all people/filipinos know and understand that being a bisaya is being an Ilonggo, a cebuano, a waray, and other related dialects. Now if we filipinos are sensitive about Terry Hatcher's ethnic statements, why can't our media be sensitive also to our ethnic groups? Its like media/tagalog is giving enough reasons for cebuanos to hate them even more.
@This is also for you sleepwalker@
I honestly had bad treatments from a couple cebuanos when I first visited that area but that did not give me any bad meat towards the Cebuanos as a whole. Somehow, it is also a known fact that there are also cebuanos who looked down on some visayans from smaller towns so it's the same thing as what you guys (some of you guys) do as what Manilenos are doing. Does that make Cebuanos alot better than any other filipino regional groups? Certainly, Tagalogs aren't any better than any other filipinos for sure.

Manila is a very diversed city, the one you see in the media are not entirely run by PURELY tagalog race, there are bisaya, ilocano, kapangpangan and so on are all in the media as well and I have known atleast two cebuanos in the media, actors and actresses that portray roles are not TAGALOGs only. Just because the Manila media is being run in Manila means all the culprit for all these "jokes" are done by strictly tagalogs. Habaggat mentioned before that it's not SOLELY THE BISAYAN being portrayed as a second class citizens. You see how they portray batangueno tagalogs, Ilocanos in the movies? So, why Pour OUT YOUR HATRED TOWARDS tagalogs when Manila people are not pure tagalogs, Cebuanos are no angel as well in this issue right? Some of you may have not realized it yet but what u perceived as actions by the tagalogs are similar actions being done by most filipinos with the exception of some few who has a much wider views in life.

You commented about the manila reference by Terry Hatcher "ethnic" comments as if the Tagalogs are the only one affected by that issue as if there are no Bisaya or Illonggos going in Manila's Medican schools. Bernie or Habaggat himself is a bisaya or Illonggo, he goes to school in ateneo or UP right??? Now, a doctor or collegue I have here in the US is a graduate of Manila University they are both (a husband and wife) bisaya.... How do you feel about that? Do you think that does not affect the bisaya or filipino as a whole?

Oh yes, BTW, I think most bisaya or cebuano does not realized this yet because it seems that when you say Tagalog you would equate it to Manila, well batangueno, cavitenos, bulakuenos, mindoro are all tagalog also. They are considered PROMBI by the Manilenos or IN MANILA that happens to be inhabited by migrants from all over the Philippines. Is it fair to bash tagalogs in general? what about the non manilenos tagalogs like Mindoro, batangas, laguna and such who was being portrayed AS FUNNY, trouble makers, uneducated and gangster in the MANILA movies? They should react on how the are being portrayed as a low class citizens as well and "tatanga na provinciano" right? OR is this an issue like in America that only fellow blacks can have fun and call their fellow blacks a "nig**r" but no other white or races can use it as a joke? Stupid world isn't it?

[Hajanlet]

Well, there is the stereotype thing, but that kind of pronunciation is actually natural for us. Aside from different words and grammar, English is not phonetic; it's breakable to a set of basic sounds but there's thousands of them. That's the main reason why pretty much anyone in Asia would have to practice English a great deal to get the hang of pronouncing it properly.

This brings something else to mind, aren't we a little too preoccupied with accents? Proper pronunciation is important for people to understand you, but there are cases where we correct ourselves for very minor variations. It should always be in the context of whether a native speaker could already understand us.

Sa 'og' ug 'ug', dili ba nahisgot na to ngari o sa una ba to nga hilo (thread) na ang Binisaya kay naa ra'y 'a', 'i' ug 'u'? Kung mao kana ang pangalaki ron, unsa man gayud diay ang diprensya sa duha? Ang pag-gamit sa 'u' ug 'o' kung puniton nimo ug paminaw sa sinulti nga pulong (spoken word) kay, sa akoang pagtan-aw, mura man og naa ra na sa tupad niya nga letra o 'syllable' man kaha. Mahimo ba nga naa pa'y magpaklaro niini? Basin naa ra ko'y nasayup ug hinumdum.

Kay nakahisgut na man ko ug 'phonetic', kabantay ba mo nga kung dungagan ug 'la', 'li', 'lu', 'le', 'lo' ang 'hiragana' o ang 'katakana' kay sakar kaayo siya sa pagsuwat og Binisaya? Mahulog og mas sayun gani basahon. Ang mga letra nga gamit nato karon kay gihimo man gud ni alang sa mga kapulungan nga mas 'diverse', mas daghan, ang mga tingog. Mahimo ni nga kaso kung asa mas komplikado ang sinuwatan kay sa lingwahe nga gisuwat. As a reference, English has around 3,000 syllables and Japanese has just over 100. From the sound of our language, we seem to be somewhere in between, but we certainly have fewer syllables than English.

Wala ko gaingon nga mu-adapt ta sa ilahang sinuwatan. Ang naa lang gayud sa akoang gipangingon kay maayo unta kung naa na ta'y 'standard' bahin sa mga tingog nga naa sa atoang kapulongan. Kuwang ra man gayud na nga naa ta'y letra.

[Mercato]

@This is also for you sleepwalker@
I honestly had bad treatments from a couple cebuanos when I first visited that area but that did not give me any bad meat towards the Cebuanos as a whole. Somehow, it is also a known fact that there are also cebuanos who looked down on some visayans from smaller towns so it's the same thing as what you guys (some of you guys) do as what Manilenos are doing. Does that make Cebuanos alot better than any other filipino regional groups? Certainly, Tagalogs aren't any better than any other filipinos for sure. Hola mwg, here we go again. We do not claim to be better than any other group of people, albeit there are some isolated cases of what you had bewailed about in your first paragraph. Forgive me for dissecting your article but it is lengthy and has to be anwered point by point. Whilst it is true indeed that there is no Tagalog conspiracy against solely the Cebuanos; it also holds veritably true that there is no conspiracy amongst Cebuano circles to hate or bring down Tagalogs. That much is true.

What you & I are actually witnessing is a resurgence of Cebuano pride of place, or I do not know a better word to use (it could be “patriotism” or “nationalism” for the Cebuano nation).

It is this pride of place which is often misunderstood as inspiring “hatred”. I beg to digress, it does not.

[Mercato]

Manila is a very diversed city, the one you see in the media are not entirely run by PURELY tagalog race, there are bisaya, ilocano, kapangpangan and so on are all in the media as well and I have known atleast two cebuanos in the media, actors and actresses that portray roles are not TAGALOGs only. Just because the Manila media is being run in Manila means all the culprit for all these "jokes" are done by strictly tagalogs. Habaggat mentioned before that it's not SOLELY THE BISAYAN being portrayed as a second class citizens. You see how they portray batangueno tagalogs, Ilocanos in the movies? So, why Pour OUT YOUR HATRED TOWARDS tagalogs when Manila people are not pure tagalogs, Cebuanos are no angel as well in this issue right? Some of you may have not realized it yet but what u perceived as actions by the tagalogs are similar actions being done by most filipinos with the exception of some few who has a much wider views in life.

You commented about the manila reference by Terry Hatcher "ethnic" comments as if the Tagalogs are the only one affected by that issue as if there are no Bisaya or Illonggos going in Manila's Medican schools. Bernie or Habaggat himself is a bisaya or Illonggo, he goes to school in ateneo or UP right??? Now, a doctor or collegue I have here in the US is a graduate of Manila University they are both (a husband and wife) bisaya.... How do you feel about that? Do you think that does not affect the bisaya or filipino as a whole? Now these 2 paragraphs deals with the Establishment (it is important that this Establishment must be set apart from the Tagalog people and/or their language). Establishment can be generally defined as the political/ governing elite in Manila which is truly run by many ethnicities.

Then there is the Showbiz establishment elite in Manila which I find rather banal and mostly insensitive and their artworks are crude in most instances. Hardly worth watching when compared to the elegant Philippine movies of yesteryears. Your 2 paragraphs dealt with the Entertainment elite thus we shall focus on that.

The guy only said that right after the Teri Hatcher affair, he finds it ironic that everyone in Manila lapped it up with glee when Sakal and Judy Ann presented that infamous scene. Yet we see many from the capital who find the scene innocent, funny and not worth the trouble, and our reactions as overreactions or OA. Hardly so, I beg to disagree.

Do you remember this quaint little law in Physics, with every action there is an equal and opposite reaction? Up to now, very few from our crassy trashy Entertainment elite recognize this. They continue providing the fuse to light up Cebuano pride of place. So until this malaise is remedied from within the ranks of the boorish media over there, yes I am afraid this affair will be a story without an end.

It is even more unfortunate that some people find nothing wrong with it and even take up the cudgels for and on behalf of the trashy media. That should not be, you should even distance yourselves from our “prestigious” “Hollywood”. (Make no mistake, I do enjoy postwar Phil cinema up to the time of the likes of Lino Brocka. Sadly, most of the present day entertainment sucks. I need not even mention the trashy noontime shows, eat bulaga or wowawee. My oh my, such redeeming values they foster, don’t they??

Unbeknownst to our “prestigious” Famas Hollywood, this is one of the institutions which continually ignites the fire of Cebuano nationalism. Their original intent is to poke fun and at the same time make money out of it; but the unintended side effect is the growth of Cebuano nationalism, too.
:yes:

[Sleepwalker]

@This is also for you sleepwalker@
I honestly had bad treatments from a couple cebuanos when I first visited that area but that did not give me any bad meat towards the Cebuanos as a whole. Somehow, it is also a known fact that there are also cebuanos who looked down on some visayans from smaller towns so it's the same thing as what you guys (some of you guys) do as what Manilenos are doing. Does that make Cebuanos alot better than any other filipino regional groups? Certainly, Tagalogs aren't any better than any other filipinos for sure.

Manila is a very diversed city, the one you see in the media are not entirely run by PURELY tagalog race, there are bisaya, ilocano, kapangpangan and so on are all in the media as well and I have known atleast two cebuanos in the media, actors and actresses that portray roles are not TAGALOGs only. Just because the Manila media is being run in Manila means all the culprit for all these "jokes" are done by strictly tagalogs. Habaggat mentioned before that it's not SOLELY THE BISAYAN being portrayed as a second class citizens. You see how they portray batangueno tagalogs, Ilocanos in the movies? So, why Pour OUT YOUR HATRED TOWARDS tagalogs when Manila people are not pure tagalogs, Cebuanos are no angel as well in this issue right? Some of you may have not realized it yet but what u perceived as actions by the tagalogs are similar actions being done by most filipinos with the exception of some few who has a much wider views in life.

You commented about the manila reference by Terry Hatcher "ethnic" comments as if the Tagalogs are the only one affected by that issue as if there are no Bisaya or Illonggos going in Manila's Medican schools. Bernie or Habaggat himself is a bisaya or Illonggo, he goes to school in ateneo or UP right??? Now, a doctor or collegue I have here in the US is a graduate of Manila University they are both (a husband and wife) bisaya.... How do you feel about that? Do you think that does not affect the bisaya or filipino as a whole?

Oh yes, BTW, I think most bisaya or cebuano does not realized this yet because it seems that when you say Tagalog you would equate it to Manila, well batangueno, cavitenos, bulakuenos, mindoro are all tagalog also. They are considered PROMBI by the Manilenos or IN MANILA that happens to be inhabited by migrants from all over the Philippines. Is it fair to bash tagalogs in general? what about the non manilenos tagalogs like Mindoro, batangas, laguna and such who was being portrayed AS FUNNY, trouble makers, uneducated and gangster in the MANILA movies? They should react on how the are being portrayed as a low class citizens as well and "tatanga na provinciano" right? OR is this an issue like in America that only fellow blacks can have fun and call their fellow blacks a "nig**r" but no other white or races can use it as a joke? Stupid world isn't it?

OK...My scope of the word Tagalog is only for Manilenos...But since Tagalog is the spoken language of the Manilenos, then, let me just use the word Tagalog.

There is a big difference between a discrimination from Manila people towards promdi and from Cebu people towards other promdis. Let me explain using this analogy.

Philippines - a mother

Manila - a favorite sibling, spoiled with everything the mother could afford

Cebu - a sibling who lacks attention from the mother, because the mother is too occupied taking care of Manila.

Other provinces - siblings who also lacks attention from the mother.

What would Cebu and the other siblings feel if Manila will discriminate them as being poor? Of having no expensive toys? Of growing slowly?

Now, i understand some of Cebu people also discriminate other promdis, but IMO, the magnitude of its effect is not the same as those discrimination coming from the people of Manila.

[Sleepwalker]

Besides og and ug here's something that's frequently mistaken by young Cebuano speakers:

The case of nga and na.

Based on Wolff's dictionary (1972)

nga - grammatical marker. 3. between members of a two-headed endocentric construction. ex. Nindut nga sinina (A beautiful dress); Usa ka hungut nga tuba (A coconut shell full of palm toddy); Gihilasan ko nga namati sa iyang hambug (I was disgusted listening to his boasts), etc.

na - particle following the first word of the predicate. 1 now (so-and-so) is the case by now, will be the case by a certain point of time. ex. Ang akong kinamagulangan sayis anyos na. (My eldest son is six years old now), etc.

So it's wrong when you hear Kadtong trak na puwa kusog modagan. It should be: Kadtong trak nga puwa kusog modagan. Another example: Kanang balay na tisa sa Carcar. It should be: Kanang balay nga tisa sa Carcar. :banana:

Kini, usa ko's angay paludhon sa altar...Hehehehehe

[Mercato]

Oh yes, BTW, I think most bisaya or cebuano does not realized this yet because it seems that when you say Tagalog you would equate it to Manila, well batangueno, cavitenos, bulakuenos, mindoro are all tagalog also. They are considered PROMBI by the Manilenos or IN MANILA that happens to be inhabited by migrants from all over the Philippines. Is it fair to bash tagalogs in general? what about the non manilenos tagalogs like Mindoro, batangas, laguna and such who was being portrayed AS FUNNY, trouble makers, uneducated and gangster in the MANILA movies? They should react on how the are being portrayed as a low class citizens as well and "tatanga na provinciano" right? OR is this an issue like in America that only fellow blacks can have fun and call their fellow blacks a "nig**r" but no other white or races can use it as a joke? Stupid world isn't it? Again, no one is really having Cebuano secret societies or powwows purely to bash Tagalogs; much in the same way that there is no Tagalog conspiracy to enslave Cebuanos.

I remember sleepwalker did say that SSCers are generally good people; but that this same trait is not reflected on the bigger population outside. Prob explains why we see more vicious wars on other forums, I can give u an easy example – Youtube.

The only reason I can think of why the other provincials do not react to such indignities is because they are still in the dormant or hibernation stage. It takes awhile for these pride of places to occur. It just so happens that our Cebuano pride of place, patriotism or nationalism (pardon me til I find a more suitable word) is already awakening right before our eyes. We see it happening not only in SSC but outside.

We are not a single nation but a State or country with several nations within. Our "glorious" Phil Hollywood doesn't care about all this, all they want is to make money and dwell on the prevalent stereotypes and mentalities.
*
*
*

OT... Also, I know you're directing it at mainstream or sleepwalker but this is just my 2cents, naaah - its too long to be 2 cents, maybe Sing$10.
I’m proud to know just now that the 4 strongest currencies in the world are the Euro, the Australian $, the Singapore $ and the New Zealand $ -- in that
order... :banana:

[Sleepwalker]

Maayo pa og magtukod ang mga bisaya og usa ka group nga mao modala sa uprising unya sa mga bisaya...Tawgon ang grupo og M.I.B. (Mga Isog nga Bisaya)....:banana::banana::banana:

Sa maong paagi, mapanalipdan nato ang atong katilingbanon nga katungod nga sa walay kuka-ikog, gitamak-tamakan sa uban nga mga kanahan... :)

[habagatcentral1]

By the way,

I read from The History of the Bisayan Islands of Padre Alcina SJ in a 17th Century manuscript...

He didn't give any clue on where and when did the people of the islands called themselves as "Bisaya" but the Spaniards were the ones who collectively called them that.

The theory according to Alcina is that "Bisaya" means slave perhaps in Hindu-Sanskrit terms.
Another one is "saya" or "sadya" meaning "happy people"...

Either way, it still hasn't given any clue on the origin of the term "Bisaya."

And really, Bisaya during the Spanish era encompassed what we know as the peoples of the Visayan Islands.

I have yet to search for the Book 3 Chapter 1 of the said book (translated) because it is said that it contains the languages of the Visayan islands and its description.

[Mercato]

I believe there are 4 Bisaya tribes. The first 3 we already know about. But there seems to be a 4th one, existing outside the Philippines as a minority tribe in Brunei and Malaysia.

Bisaya girls in traditional costumes in the entrance to the Kampung Batu Danau Hall, Sarawak.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/O%20Solo%20Mio/ms_6bisaya.jpg

Bisaya gongs performed by a group from Sabah.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/O%20Solo%20Mio/ms_6sabah.jpg

Bisaya girls.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/O%20Solo%20Mio/ms_6babulang.jpg

For these people to use the very word "Bisaya" clearly means we have some connection with them.
http://images.google.com.ph/imgres?imgurl=http://thestar.com.my/archives/2007/6/26/southneast/ms_6bisaya.jpg&imgrefurl=http://malaysiahotelnews.blogspot.com/2007/06/babulang-festival-listed-for-first-time.html&h=214&w=300&sz=34&hl=en&start=3&um=1&usg=__r_g46DQWqVCHBauauBmzu8am2ak=&tbnid=SuL_h6CvUpNGWM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBisaya%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX

What do you think of this, bai AngBantayanon? Is it worthy of investigation over at the Cebu Cultural Heritage? :)

[mwg12a]

There is nothing wrong about having pride of our heritages. There is no question about it. If you would review some of the comments by some cebuanos (although, there are few of them only) you won't be able help but react on certain things that was said because it sounds more like a racial remark. Having a pride is vocalizing what is good about let's take for instance, the cebuanos... But if you put down or condescend someone or a certain group of people like how Matudnilababy is no excuse, it is not called pride. It's the same superiority complex that you guys are accussing Tagalogs as if tagalogs are only the Manila people. I was just merely explaining that Manila maybe in Luzon but it doesn't mean they are all tagalogs just like how Matudnilababy gave an example in terry hatcher's comment about the schools in Manila and the designer of MCIA airport whom he refered to as FROM MANILA as if the people in Manila are much dumber than Cebuanos atleast that what it sounds like in his comments. So, maybe you should review some of his comment here and partial in Cebu airport comments.

I can understand about his sad experiences according to him from the tagalogs, but sheesh, Cebuanos are no angel themselves. I had my share of ill treatments from some of you but I don't see the whole cebuanos the same. It's an unfair treatment for the rest of tagalogs who are not from Manila and it seems like you guys equate Manila as tagalog people when less than half of Manila has the real authentic tagalog living there, for all I care, I hear more bisaya, illonggo and kapangpangan in Manila. The media whom you guys been refering to as the culprit for a wrong portrayal of bisaya or cebuanos are being run not only by tagalogs. As a matter of fact? I think that "mother Lili" I usually hear in Manila is a bisaya or Ilongga, Inday badiday or some tv personality is a bisaya. Why blame the media on tagalogs when many actors and actresses, even movie producers are bisaya as well..

Maybe it's not you Mercato. Although you come across strong at times, I understand your sentiments and I don't think it's really condescending towards any other filipinos, but man, there are atleast 2 or three I've noticed that is full of hatred so somehow even if I sound really mad, I was trying to enlighten these few that they are misguided and being overly sentimental souls to open up their minds, you would think that they are an immigrant in another country and very easily subjected to prejudism by the citizen of their host countries that they would learn to be more broad minded.


BTW, mercato, no, not sleepwalker, I did respond to his reply on my comment but no, i have no problem with sleepwalker.

[mwg12a]

OK...My scope of the word Tagalog is only for Manilenos...But since Tagalog is the spoken language of the Manilenos, then, let me just use the word Tagalog.

There is a big difference between a discrimination from Manila people towards promdi and from Cebu people towards other promdis. Let me explain using this analogy.

Philippines - a mother

Manila - a favorite sibling, spoiled with everything the mother could afford

Cebu - a sibling who lacks attention from the mother, because the mother is too occupied taking care of Manila.

Other provinces - siblings who also lacks attention from the mother.

What would Cebu and the other siblings feel if Manila will discriminate them as being poor? Of having no expensive toys? Of growing slowly?

Now, i understand some of Cebu people also discriminate other promdis, but IMO, the magnitude of its effect is not the same as those discrimination coming from the people of Manila.


What would a promdi bisaya would feel if Cebuanos are treating them unfairly, laughing at them to the point that they are already insulting the provinciano bisaya who happens to migrate to Cebu.

There is no difference in discrimination. Discrimination is prejudices, all of which has no excuse for anybody to commit. The way the media portrays batanguenos as uneducated, gangsters and trouble makers is no less different that how the media portray a biaya as katulong and promdi , while the Ilocanos as tabacco smoking uneducated and less sophisticated. They are all bad... but the difference is it's media, movies... How come the Ilocanos and the batanguenos are not so affected about the bad portrayal of them in the media and the Cebuanos are totally acting negatively. Who really has the problem there???? Remember? the media isn't being run by the tagalog race only.... Who should we blame then? Only the tagalogs just because they are in Manila, the government that is being run by not a tagalog but Ilocano, kapangpangan for so many years with teh exception of Estrada. Senate are also from all different parts of the Philippines... even back in the olden days..

[habagatcentral1]

Question:
Does anybody knows who Patani is? Patani from Survivor Philippines? What's your reaction on her portrayal in the media?

[Sleepwalker]

What would a promdi bisaya would feel if Cebuanos are treating them unfairly, laughing at them to the point that they are already insulting the provinciano bisaya who happens to migrate to Cebu.

There is no difference in discrimination. Discrimination is prejudices, all of which has no excuse for anybody to commit. The way the media portrays batanguenos as uneducated, gangsters and trouble makers is no less different that how the media portray a biaya as katulong and promdi , while the Ilocanos as tabacco smoking uneducated and less sophisticated. They are all bad... but the difference is it's media, movies... How come the Ilocanos and the batanguenos are not so affected about the bad portrayal of them in the media and the Cebuanos are totally acting negatively. Who really has the problem there???? Remember? the media isn't being run by the tagalog race only.... Who should we blame then? Only the tagalogs just because they are in Manila, the government that is being run by not a tagalog but Ilocano, kapangpangan for so many years with teh exception of Estrada. Senate are also from all different parts of the Philippines... even back in the olden days..


Actually, the point of my analogy is that, i just want to emphasize that the people from Manila are very much lucky to live in a city that recieves so many previledges from the national government. So lucky, that it would be unfair for them to slap in each provincianos face and say "Hey, do you have ATM's in your province?"; "Do you have trains?".

[tonight]

^^salamat sa inyong tanan, daghan nako nahibaw-an :)

[Askal82]

Here's a text joke which critiques not only the person concerned but may be interpreted as stereotyping. This is just for the sake of discussion so I will post the entire message.

RUFFA: Ma, idi-divorce ko na si Yilmaz. Gusto lagi an_l s_x, eh, my pwet is now the size of a P1 coin, dati 25 centavo coin lang.

ANNABEL: Rowfa u ar merid to a bilyoneir, u lib in an 18-bedrum house, u drayb a Perari, u get P200,000 alawans a wik & u want 2 trow ol dat away for a deferens of 75 sintabos?

The butt of joke isn't only Annabel but it stereotypes her being promdi by: 1. not being able to pronounce well; 2. being concerned more with money or being materialistic; 3. being an ignoramus or innocent.

This is messed up.

I can't help laugh on this one. :lol: :lol:

Don't underestimate the worth of 75 centavos. :lol:

[icarusrising]

Actually, the point of my analogy is that, i just want to emphasize that the people from Manila are very much lucky to live in a city that recieves so many previledges from the national government. So lucky, that it would be unfair for them to slap in each provincianos face and say "Hey, do you have ATM's in your province?"; "Do you have trains?".

I find that petty. The trains, have to be put in place to address the problem of congestion- serving all the citizens regardless of ethnic or linguistic backgrounds. ATMs on the other hand, are put up by banks which are mostly privately-owned to serve the customers without preference to ethic or linguistic background.

Manila is getting the most care perhaps because she is the most needful. She has had the greatest suffering and continues to suffer. Part of me wish she was never the capital, then perhaps she would have escaped a terrible fate of destruction by war, pollution, overpopulation, crime, political turmoil and a host of other woes.

It is wrong that parental care be focused so much on one child. It is a fault but perhaps the leaders were thinking that if they could heal Manila, then they can give the others a chance to shine too. Manila isn't the Philippines but it is our face to many outsiders. Manila more than any other city in the Philippines is the most varied in terms of composition. By taking care of the melting pot, aren't the leaders, in a way, taking care of those representatives from every nook and cranny of the Philippines?

Manila has long ceased to be the Tagalog capital. Her constituents are from every point of the archipelago and they need to communicate. Naturally, Tagalog would be the lingua franca. English, yes but more of business and in the academe rather than everyday conversation.

In South Korea with only one language existing for a very strongly nationalistic and culturally homogeneous people, those from its second largest metropolitan area, Busan, the industrial hub, are still judged as speaking a "rough-sounding" variety of Hanggul. The same is said to be true when they speak English. And that those from the southern island of Jeju as speaking a "very different" variety of Hanggul. My point is, dichotomy between language as spoken in in "the center" and "the peripheries" would naturally exist.

[Sleepwalker]

I find that petty. The trains, have to be put in place to address the problem of congestion- serving all the citizens regardless of ethnic or linguistic backgrounds. ATMs are on the other hand, are put up by banks which are mostly privately-owned to serve the customers without preference to ethic or linguistic background.

Manila is getting the most care perhaps because she is the most needful. She has had the greatest suffering and continues to suffer. Part of me wish she was never the capital, then perhaps she would have escaped a terrible fate of destruction by war, pollution, overpopulation, crime, political turmoil and a host of other woes.

It is wrong that parental care be focused so much on one child. It is a fault But perhaps the leaders were thinking that if they could heal Manila, then they can give the others a chance to shine too. Manila isn't the Philippines but it is our face to many outsiders. Manila more than any other city in the Philippines is the most varied in terms of composition. By taking care of the melting pot, aren't the leaders, in a way, taking care of those representatives from every nook and cranny of the Philippines?

Manila has long ceased to be the Tagalog capital. Her constituents are from every point of the archipelago and they need to communicate. Naturally, Tagalog would be the lingua franca. English, yes but more of business and in the academe rather than everyday conversation.

In South Korea with only one language existing for a very strongly nationalistic and culturally homogeneous people, those from its second largest metropolitan area, Busan, the industrial hub, are still judged as speaking a "rough-sounding" variety of Hanggul. The same is said to be true when they speak English. And that those from the southern island of Jeju as speaking a "very different" variety of Hanggul. My point is, dichotomy between language as spoken in in "the center" and "the peripheries" would naturally exist.

@icarus, i hope you don't misunderstand my comment as bashing to Tagalog...my actual sentiments is to the unequal attention that our govenment provides between Manila and the rest of the country. I don't care what language to be used as official nor where is the location of the capital. I just dont like the idea of Philippines being equated to Manila.

My example about trains and ATMs are just the simplest form of discrimination.

I am proud of Manila, especially the Fort Bonifacio. Whenever i have an officemate ask me about Philippines, i never failed to show to them the Metro Manila skyline (of course, after i advertised my beloved Cebu...heheheh).... And they are always amazed, that inspite of our reputation of being a poor country, we have this kind of world class metropolis.

IMO, we are just casualties of war play, created and directed by our own politicos. I am for united Philippines, but if it keeps on being Manila-centric, until then, hanggang Visayas United lang muna ako... :)

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

We are not a single nation but a State or country with several nations within. Our "glorious" Phil Hollywood doesn't care about all this, all they want is to make money and dwell on the prevalent stereotypes and mentalities.


yeah! I am for federating languages! basta all i can say is, being a cebuano, i know how cebuano mind works so if a tagalog comes to cebu for the first time, naturally he'd speak tagalog and I'd advise that before you make socializing with cebuanos, you should not let your tagalog tongue dominate your conversation because, and I hate to say this, most cebuanos would treat you "hambugero" and "pasweto" (know all) but again, you can count on me that I have been open to alot of criticisms already and I don't have problems anymore here because you guys are very enlightening. basta I want media to stop domestic ethnic slurs, even though how much bisaya employs in that industry, it only spurs useless hatred amongst others.

I am just worried about non-SSCers.

I am for federating languages.

[Maxxclip]

@icarus, i hope you don't misunderstand my comment as bashing to Tagalog...my actual sentiments is to the unequal attention that our govenment provides between Manila and the rest of the country. I don't care what language to be used as official nor where is the location of the capital. I just dont like the idea of Philippines being equated to Manila.

My example about trains and ATMs are just the simplest form of discrimination.

I am proud of Manila, especially the Fort Bonifacio. Whenever i have an officemate ask me about Philippines, i never failed to show to them the Metro Manila skyline (of course, after i advertised my beloved Cebu...heheheh).... And they are always amazed, that inspite of our reputation of being a poor country, we have this kind of world class metropolis.

IMO, we are just casualties of war play, created and directed by our own politicos. I am for united Philippines, but if it keeps on being Manila-centric, until then, hanggang Visayas United lang muna ako... :)



Pederalismo ang sagot sa himutok/ hinanakit mo kaibigan:)

and you will be needing an Obama-like leader to spread the wealth of our nation;)

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

^^

ganon na nga yun bro....:cheers:

[Sleepwalker]

Pederalismo ang sagot sa himutok/ hinanakit mo kaibigan:)

and you will be needing an Obama-like leader to spread the wealth of our nation;)

Cheers to federalism, Ginoong @Maxxclip...:cheer::cheer::cheer:

[Ang_Bantayanon]

Magnibisaya kita aron di masabtan sa mga kanahan.

Mura gyud ni'g storya sa itlog ug manok. Wala gyud ni kahumanan atong panagkulokabildo ug panagbinayloay og pulong dinhi.. Kining mga kanahan (nasayud nata kung kinsa ni sila :)) nga nangapil dinhi dili sad gyud na paalkansi kay mangatarungan gyud pud na sila.

Pero, bitaw sa akong iksperyensya daghan gyud sad sa mga nagbugalbugal sa mga Bisaya (mga Sugbuanon) kay mga ignoy man pud sa tinuod nga kalamboan sa ubang lugar sa Pilipinas, hilabi na sa Kabisay-an ug Mindanao. Nakahinumdum ko nga sa una, sa dihang magtutuon pa ko sa kolehiyo nangadto mi sa kaulohan, gipangutana mi sa mga magtutuon (mga tagawg nga conyo) sa usa sa mga sikat nga unibersidad didto kung duna ba'y pamantalaan, cable tv ug uban pa dinhi sa Sugbu. Nakaingon ko, intawn sad, kaluoy sa mga ignoy nga nagtuo nga kita nga naa dinhi nga layo sa kaulohan nagpuyo pa sa langub. :bash: Hahahaha! Shalan gud diay. :lol:

Bitaw, atong i-asdang ang pederalismo aron duna na kita'y katungod nga mopili kung unsa'y maayo alang kanato ug dili lamang magsalig sa mga kanahan.

[Mercato]

^^^^ :lol: ojala a ver. Magbinisaya giud 'ta! Hastilan paita kakapoy ra bag patik nianing mga ritrato unya hapit na lang matabunan sa pikas panid. O sigue, daghang salamat sa mga nagpatik bahin sa og & ug. Maayo caayo nga fine tuning ang kinahanglan.

Balik ko sa akong pangutana para nimo bai AngBantayanon. Unsa ma'y mga studies bahin nianing mga tawhana/tribu? Makaingon tingali 'ta nga dili lamang kita ang makaangkon ug herencia/ titulo guikan sa caraang Sri Visayan empire con dili lakip na ni'ng mga Malaysians/Bruneians below? :)
I believe there are 4 Bisaya tribes. The first 3 we already know about. But there seems to be a 4th one, existing outside the Philippines as a minority tribe in Brunei and Malaysia.

Bisaya girls in traditional costumes in the entrance to the Kampung Batu Danau Hall, Sarawak.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/O%20Solo%20Mio/ms_6bisaya.jpg

Bisaya gongs performed by a group from Sabah.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/O%20Solo%20Mio/ms_6sabah.jpg

Bisaya girls.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/O%20Solo%20Mio/ms_6babulang.jpg

For these people to use the very word "Bisaya" clearly means we have some connection with them.
http://images.google.com.ph/imgres?imgurl=http://thestar.com.my/archives/2007/6/26/southneast/ms_6bisaya.jpg&imgrefurl=http://malaysiahotelnews.blogspot.com/2007/06/babulang-festival-listed-for-first-time.html&h=214&w=300&sz=34&hl=en&start=3&um=1&usg=__r_g46DQWqVCHBauauBmzu8am2ak=&tbnid=SuL_h6CvUpNGWM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBisaya%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX

What do you think of this, bai AngBantayanon? Is it worthy of investigation over at the Cebu Cultural Heritage? :)

[Ang_Bantayanon]

^^^^ :lol: ojala a ver. Magbinisaya giud 'ta! Hastilan paita kakapoy ra bag patik nianing mga ritrato unya hapit na lang matabunan sa pikas panid. O sigue, daghang salamat sa mga nagpatik bahin sa og & ug. Maayo caayo nga fine tuning ang kinahanglan.

Balik ko sa akong pangutana para nimo bai AngBantayanon. Unsa ma'y mga studies bahin nianing mga tawhana/tribu? Makaingon tingali 'ta nga dili lamang kita ang makaangkon ug herencia/ titulo guikan sa caraang Sri Visayan empire con dili lakip na ni'ng mga Malaysians/Bruneians below? :)

Higalang Mercato, pasayloa kining imong alagad. Bitaw, nakadungog naman ko niini nga tribu didto sa Indonesia. Sa akong nasabtan, may pulong pud kuno nga Bisaya ang usa ka grupong Muslim (sa Mindanao) nga nagpasabot og ulipon, kini kuno nga mga ulipon nabihag gikan sa mga kalungsuran sa Bisayas. Apan kanang sa Indonesia, ambot, basin kaha ug gikan ang ilang kaliwat sa Bisayas niadto, gidagit ug gidala sa mga pirata didto sa Indonesia.

Sa imong gi-link, basaha ang ilang mga pangalan ug bansagon diba Kristiyano kaayo. Pero wala gyud ta masayod niana. Bitaw, angay na natong panukidukion ug tun-an pag-ayo.

[Mercato]

Sa imong gi-link, basaha ang ilang mga pangalan ug bansagon diba Kristiyano kaayo. Pero wala gyud ta masayod niana. Bitaw, angay na natong panukidukion ug tun-an pag-ayo. Corecto!! Parejas ta'g namatikdan sa ilahang mga panga'an... Sa akong mga naencuentro nga mga guikan sa Sarawak, South Borneo og bisan sa isla sa Manado, Indonesia; miingon man sila nga ubay ubay baya ang mga Kristiyano sa ilahang mga dapit. Labi na kuno sa Manado, ang ilahang specialty didto kuno kay iro! Mokaon sila ug iro unya especial para nila susama sa ang lechon especial para nato. Unya kahibawo man ta nga ang mga muslim dili mohikap ug iro kay hugaw sa ilang tinuho-an. Tan-awa pud ang mga babaye sa ritrato kay wala man gasul-ob og hijab o veil...

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

Bitaw, atong i-asdang ang pederalismo aron duna na kita'y katungod nga mopili kung unsa'y maayo alang kanato ug dili lamang magsalig sa mga kanahan.

bai nakabasa pud ka sa Manila Times Editorial dated Tuesday, January 16, 2007:

Excerpts of TAKE A VOW, CEBU:


The REPUBLIC OF CEBU

THE Asean Summit burnishes the pristine of image of Cebu—the province and the metro region. A strong civic pride enlivens life in Cebu because of its history, culture, economy and sense of its future. History has given Cebuanos a rich pride of place and culture. The economy rivals that of Metro Manila’s. Its natural attractions and infrastructure make it a favorite global convention city. Cebuanos take pride in their educational system and their athletes. The faithful consider the place a national shrine. The Cebu media are one of the liveliest in the country.

Not civic pride alone but a sense of homegrown nationalism distinguishes the Cebuanos. Their pride in the Cebuano language prompts many to shun singing the national anthem in Tagalog-based Filipino at public ceremonies. It is not uncommon to hear that Cebu City is the rightful capital of the country. There is a joke going around that Cebu can secede from the republic and stand on its own resources.

History, not heresy, will lead Cebu to a superior future. The Asean Summit will help see to that. Most of the documents forged in Cebu, for example, will now be recalled and chronicled as the Cebu Declarations. Nostalgia will enshrine Cebu in the memory of the hundreds who enjoyed its hospitality. There will be more Aseans and historic gatherings in the capital.

Secretary Romulo said: “We have placed Cebu on the map of international tourism, investments and trade. These gains are permanent as the Cebu International Center, which is a powerful symbol of the strong, resilient, determined and hardworking spirit of all Cebuanos.”

http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2007/jan/16/yehey/opinion/20070116opi1.html

Philippine Daily Inquirer dated November July 7, 2008:

By Veronica M. Silva
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 02:59:00 07/13/2008

IS CEBU THE PHILIPPINES?

Once promoted as “An island in the Pacific,” Cebu has gone its own way in promoting tourism. Not a few Manilans felt irked that it seemingly has dissociated itself from the nation’s capital.

The Cebuanos, undaunted and fired by a strong pride of place and a resolve to showcase the multifaceted attractions of the province, went to work. Now they are capturing a good slice of the visitors’ market.

The thing going for this Eastern Visayas province is that the people of Cebu, those in government, private sector and the academe, even the social elite, are one.

Proof is the recent success of the Tourism Forum under the auspices of the Cebu Chamber of Commerce and Industry and the Cebu Business Month (CBM), dovetailed with the Philippine Tourism Fair.

A sensible (and definitely peso-saving endeavor) is a program that allows the organizers to bring in hundreds of investors/tour operators to Cebu rather than send Philippine delegations out. This way the potential suppliers of “bodies” are able to see and experience that which will make them direct their clients to Cebu. Brilliant.

So it was in late June, a highly successful showcase of Cebu hospitality and attractions took place at the Cebu International Convention Center, with the very active Gov. Gwendolyn Garcia keynoting and reiterating a challenge, hurled at her earlier. The challenge, this time is “Excel! Cebu!”—the convention’s tourism slogan.

http://showbizandstyle.inquirer.net/lifestyle/lifestyle/view/20080713-148142/Is-Cebu-the-Philippines


Well, is this the reason why a lot or some may raise their eyebrows about us? Hmmmm....

[Sleepwalker]

bai nakabasa pud ka sa Manila Times Editorial dated Tuesday, January 16, 2007:

Excerpts of TAKE A VOW, CEBU:


The REPUBLIC OF CEBU

THE Asean Summit burnishes the pristine of image of Cebu—the province and the metro region. A strong civic pride enlivens life in Cebu because of its history, culture, economy and sense of its future. History has given Cebuanos a rich pride of place and culture. The economy rivals that of Metro Manila’s. Its natural attractions and infrastructure make it a favorite global convention city. Cebuanos take pride in their educational system and their athletes. The faithful consider the place a national shrine. The Cebu media are one of the liveliest in the country.

Not civic pride alone but a sense of homegrown nationalism distinguishes the Cebuanos. Their pride in the Cebuano language prompts many to shun singing the national anthem in Tagalog-based Filipino at public ceremonies. It is not uncommon to hear that Cebu City is the rightful capital of the country. There is a joke going around that Cebu can secede from the republic and stand on its own resources.

History, not heresy, will lead Cebu to a superior future. The Asean Summit will help see to that. Most of the documents forged in Cebu, for example, will now be recalled and chronicled as the Cebu Declarations. Nostalgia will enshrine Cebu in the memory of the hundreds who enjoyed its hospitality. There will be more Aseans and historic gatherings in the capital.

Secretary Romulo said: “We have placed Cebu on the map of international tourism, investments and trade. These gains are permanent as the Cebu International Center, which is a powerful symbol of the strong, resilient, determined and hardworking spirit of all Cebuanos.”

http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2007/jan/16/yehey/opinion/20070116opi1.html

Philippine Daily Inquirer dated November July 7, 2008:

By Veronica M. Silva
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 02:59:00 07/13/2008

IS CEBU THE PHILIPPINES?

Once promoted as “An island in the Pacific,” Cebu has gone its own way in promoting tourism. Not a few Manilans felt irked that it seemingly has dissociated itself from the nation’s capital.

The Cebuanos, undaunted and fired by a strong pride of place and a resolve to showcase the multifaceted attractions of the province, went to work. Now they are capturing a good slice of the visitors’ market.

The thing going for this Eastern Visayas province is that the people of Cebu, those in government, private sector and the academe, even the social elite, are one.

Proof is the recent success of the Tourism Forum under the auspices of the Cebu Chamber of Commerce and Industry and the Cebu Business Month (CBM), dovetailed with the Philippine Tourism Fair.

A sensible (and definitely peso-saving endeavor) is a program that allows the organizers to bring in hundreds of investors/tour operators to Cebu rather than send Philippine delegations out. This way the potential suppliers of “bodies” are able to see and experience that which will make them direct their clients to Cebu. Brilliant.

So it was in late June, a highly successful showcase of Cebu hospitality and attractions took place at the Cebu International Convention Center, with the very active Gov. Gwendolyn Garcia keynoting and reiterating a challenge, hurled at her earlier. The challenge, this time is “Excel! Cebu!”—the convention’s tourism slogan.

http://showbizandstyle.inquirer.net/lifestyle/lifestyle/view/20080713-148142/Is-Cebu-the-Philippines


Well, is this the reason why a lot or some may raise their eyebrows about us? Hmmmm....

Good find @mainstream....Sus, kanindot baya ani nga artikulo, makapanlimbawot sa balhibo... :)

[mwg12a]

yeah! I am for federating languages! basta all i can say is, being a cebuano, i know how cebuano mind works so if a tagalog comes to cebu for the first time, naturally he'd speak tagalog and I'd advise that before you make socializing with cebuanos, you should not let your tagalog tongue dominate your conversation because, and I hate to say this, most cebuanos would treat you "hambugero" and "pasweto" (know all) but again, you can count on me that I have been open to alot of criticisms already and I don't have problems anymore here because you guys are very enlightening. basta I want media to stop domestic ethnic slurs, even though how much bisaya employs in that industry, it only spurs useless hatred amongst others.

I am just worried about non-SSCers.

I am for federating languages.


Not in my experience, whenever i had to talk to them in tagalog, they respond respectfully in tagalog and if they can't say it clearly in tagalog, they would excuse themselves by saying it's really hard for them to speak tagalog and if they say something in bisaya, they would make sure I picked up what they said because there are many words in Cebuano or bisaya that is similar to tagalogs, ofcourse , they would mixed it with inherited spanish words and some english, so, it's clear. Those who was rude to me at first realized that I was just someone who visited the city for the first time, after that, everything went smoothly and worse comes to worse, if we are both having hard time understanding one another, I would speak to them in english, mostly, they would respond in english, there are some who would be embarrassed to speak english. I think that is the most polite way in interracting to one another whether are tagalog or bisaya. Because if you force someone who just came from a tagalog region to speak bisaya , you're pretty much imposing yourself and not being so welcoming...

Many bisaya can understand tagalog, they might not be able to speak it but they understand you clearly. There is not crime in speaking back to them in mostly bisaya, I mean if you really can't speak tagalog and is not comfortable with it, then you can just explain it nicely. The tagalog is in your region, surely if they know if they would be staying there much longer, they would start learning bisaya such as the case of my wife aunt who is tagalog married to a bisaya, she speaks bisaya back.... And that is what I usually do, if they asked me if I speak or understand I would reply to them "makasabot man ko pero gamay bai/tia/tio".

Habagat and Icarus are the ones who has a more better understanding of the tagalogs because they both constantly going back and forth between two regions, they are bisaya and illongga but they have a better grasp of what is going on. They understand the tagalogs better than a bisaya who never actually lived in the tagalog region. I'm sure there are many tagalogs also who doesn't understnd where the bisaya are coming from so, again, it works both ways...

[Sleepwalker]

So, peaceful na ta tanan diri...Icebreaker lang to nato ang mga discussion kabahin aning Tagawog.

Para sa bokabularyong binisaya, divided into two classification.

Non-RB-influenced Bisayan terms

hilo - thread
lanot - fiber
salimbuwag/salibwag - spread

RB-influenced Bisayan terms

shudi - ayaw
abas - saba
ikal - lalaki
chuvaness - ????

[habagatcentral1]

^^ I've managed to create a survey or documentary done by my students in CebuDoc about "Visayan Gay Lingo" and noticeably most of them are inverted words or repeated inverted words in comparison to the Tagalog Swardspeak which is of really really a different "dimension." :D

The "Binayot" speakers of Bisaya Swardspeak variety can be understood by a commoner if you listen very carefully...unlike its Manila counterpart which you have to ask another one who can speak Swardspeak..

By the way, I think in UP Diliman, they are offering a subject/course about Philippine Swardspeak! Maney Etchos! :D

[flesh_is_weak]

i think chuvaness is a relic of the Age of Jolina

* * *

speaking of Bisaya Gay Speak, I have a friend who speaks a sub-class that completely sounds like a foreign language--it even has a french accent to it

[Ang_Bantayanon]

Pudyi siguro ta mogamit og mga pulong nga Sugbuanon nga angayan gamiton sa atong panagbinayloay og hunahuna dinhi, sama niini:

hilo - thread ex. Hilo sa kapanulundanan (heritage thread) o hilo sa pinulungan (language thread)

kutay - train of ideas ex. Kutay sa pagpalambo sa pinulungang Sugbuanon nga gipasiugdahan ni Mercato dinhi sa hilo sa pinulungan (Train of ideas in developing the Cebuano language started/advocated by Mercato in this language thread)

tabi - online exchange of ideas; discuss; chat ex. Magtabi ta bahin sa kalamboan sa Sugbu dinhi sa SSC. (Let's discuss about developments in Cebu here in SSC)

kanahan - spoilers; trolls ex. Ang mga kanahan nanulod nasad sa hilo sa pinulungan (Trolls are present again in the language thread)

:banana:

[bukid]

Magnibisaya kita aron di masabtan sa mga kanahan.

Mura gyud ni'g storya sa itlog ug manok. Wala gyud ni kahumanan atong panagkulokabildo ug panagbinayloay og pulong dinhi.. Kining mga kanahan (nasayud nata kung kinsa ni sila :)) nga nangapil dinhi dili sad gyud na paalkansi kay mangatarungan gyud pud na sila.

Pero, bitaw sa akong iksperyensya daghan gyud sad sa mga nagbugalbugal sa mga Bisaya (mga Sugbuanon) kay mga ignoy man pud sa tinuod nga kalamboan sa ubang lugar sa Pilipinas, hilabi na sa Kabisay-an ug Mindanao. Nakahinumdum ko nga sa una, sa dihang magtutuon pa ko sa kolehiyo nangadto mi sa kaulohan, gipangutana mi sa mga magtutuon (mga tagawg nga conyo) sa usa sa mga sikat nga unibersidad didto kung duna ba'y pamantalaan, cable tv ug uban pa dinhi sa Sugbu. Nakaingon ko, intawn sad, kaluoy sa mga ignoy nga nagtuo nga kita nga naa dinhi nga layo sa kaulohan nagpuyo pa sa langub. :bash: Hahahaha! Shalan gud diay. :lol:

Bitaw, atong i-asdang ang pederalismo aron duna na kita'y katungod nga mopili kung unsa'y maayo alang kanato ug dili lamang magsalig sa mga kanahan.

:D kahinumdum pud ko sa una, nibakasyon og duha kabuwan ang amo taga-manila na ig-agaw didto sa amo sa leyte. unya nisuwat ang iyang mga miga niya ug gipangutana sya kung kumusta na ba daw sya sa bukid. :lol: mao bitaw bukid ako pangalan diri kay kahinumdum ko na gi-a-an man tag mga taga-bukid ani. abi nila mga payag ray ato mga balay ug kabaw ang ato mga sakyan. ug abi nya mga itom ta kaayo kay pirming buwad sa init ug mangatkat sa lubi. :lol: intawn, kataw-an lang ta na di daw kabalo magdrive ug SUV apan sila daw suway ug drive ug kabaw lalim ba. di daw ta kabalo mugamit ug elevator ug escalator apan sila daw musuway ug katkat sa lubi kaya ba nila. kung sa hitsura pud, tall, dark and handsome man pud tawn mi dri. suwayi lang nilag adto sa amo kay di na gyud sila ganahan gani muuli sa ila. :D ;) makatawa ra man ko makahinumdum aning panghitaboa.

[Sleepwalker]

^^ I've managed to create a survey or documentary done by my students in CebuDoc about "Visayan Gay Lingo" and noticeably most of them are inverted words or repeated inverted words in comparison to the Tagalog Swardspeak which is of really really a different "dimension." :D

The "Binayot" speakers of Bisaya Swardspeak variety can be understood by a commoner if you listen very carefully...unlike its Manila counterpart which you have to ask another one who can speak Swardspeak..

By the way, I think in UP Diliman, they are offering a subject/course about Philippine Swardspeak! Maney Etchos! :D

Did you also happen to find out why RB's tend to invent new words?

[Sleepwalker]

:D kahinumdum pud ko sa una, nibakasyon og duha kabuwan ang amo taga-manila na ig-agaw didto sa amo sa leyte. unya nisuwat ang iyang mga miga niya ug gipangutana sya kung kumusta na ba daw sya sa bukid. :lol: mao bitaw bukid ako pangalan diri kay kahinumdum ko na gi-a-an man tag mga taga-bukid ani. abi nila mga payag ray ato mga balay ug kabaw ang ato mga sakyan. ug abi nya mga itom ta kaayo kay pirming buwad sa init ug mangatkat sa lubi. :lol: intawn, kataw-an lang ta na di daw kabalo magdrive ug SUV apan sila daw suway ug drive ug kabaw lalim ba. di daw ta kabalo mugamit ug elevator ug escalator apan sila daw musuway ug katkat sa lubi kaya ba nila. kung sa hitsura pud, tall, dark and handsome man pud tawn mi dri. suwayi lang nilag adto sa amo kay di na gyud sila ganahan gani muuli sa ila. :D ;) makatawa ra man ko makahinumdum aning panghitaboa.


Pagkaanindot diay ani og sugilanon sa imong angga dinhi sa SSC oi...Naa man gud diay dako nga bahin sa imong kagahapon... :)

[Mercato]

@flesh is weak!
Maanindut lagi na imohang bag-ong avatar maaung himoong bandera Sugbuanon :banana:
Sa akong opinion lang, maau tingali ibalhin kanang bituon didto sa taas atbang ba sa Balamban / Toledo nga dapit. :lol: :lol: Apan ensacto na tingali ang timpla sa pagka blue.
kung sa hitsura pud, tall, dark and handsome man pud tawn mi dri. suwayi lang nilag adto sa amo kay di na gyud sila ganahan gani muuli sa ila. :D ;) makatawa ra man ko makahinumdum aning panghitaboa. :D:D:D aww kana jud hinuon makauyon kaayo ko sa atong mga assets... :cheers:

======================================================

pero bitau no; puera ti-aw, yano ra man god kaau nila isulti dayon ang pu'ong nga "bukid" og uban pang mga pu'ong nga wa'ay kukabana o kuwang sa panghunahuna sa lawom nga implikasyon niini. hmmm, maorag kuwang ba sa pagsabot. Mao na bitau nga ultimong mga higala nato nga ganahan kaau nga molobener ngari dili man sab makasabot kon nganong maglagot 'ta nianang ilahang mga pelikula usahay. Kay para nila wa'a ra man. Apan para nato lawom kaayo og mga guipasabot. Ngilngig sab ni'ng uban ngari kay mamugos man dayon diay og mandar kay nagsalig sila nga hagbay ra sila kuno diri sa ssc unya sigeg tilap sa lubot sa mga makagagahom. Na jala maghuwat na lang unya ko sa Federal United kon modayon ba giud na.

Apan mas labaw silang dili makasabot sa nag-usbong nga garbo sa Sugbuanon. Pride of Place o bien nacionalismo ba kaha ang angay itawag niini, wa sab kaau ko masuheto. Ang ilaha ra giud nga dili ni maau nga butang, nga para nila nalisang sila niini kay kuan kuno, kining "pagdumot" o "kaligutgot" kuno kini batok kanila. Kaluoy sa mga paloy, diha ra pod jud kutob ang ilang pamensar... :lol:

[Hajanlet]

Kanang istorya nga tagabukid ug tagapatag kay dili ra man na sa mga tagawg lang. Naa man sad na sa ato. Ang naa lang tingali kung naa ka sa Dakbayan sa Sugbo kay naa may mga bukid nga gipamuy-an sa mga dato, mao nang dili gud ka kadali-dali ug panaway nga tagabukid 'na ang usa ka tao.

Kahinumdom pa ko nga gasakay ko ug 13C pauli gikan sa TC nya naa'y gasunod nga jeep sa Minglanilla nga gisakyan og mga highschool nga estudyante na gikan ga-field trip. Saba man 'tawn kaayo ang mga bata, labaw pa to nga naa'y nilabay nga day-o sa sidewalk dapit sa foodland na nanyagit gud intawn, naihas tingali to ug puti. Nasuko man to ang kondoktor sa akong gisakyan mao to nga nishagit siya, 'Hoy! Panghilom kuno mo ngara! Unsa'y batasan ninyo sa bukid, ayaw'g dalha ngari sa Syudad!' Makita gud nato sa iyahang giingon nga naa gyu'y pagtan-aw ang uban'g mga taga-Syudad, mga tagapatag, na ubus o ihas na ang mga tagabukid.

Sa ako lang, bisan pa og makalain gud nga pangutan-on ta nga aduna ba'y ATM, mall, internet ug uban pa sa atuang lugar, dili gud ta angay masuko kay sa ilaha man na nga pagkaihas. Angay na nga tudlu-an ug dili kasuk-an ang mga tao nga inunana. Inunana ra sad sa stereotypes, korhi-e (correct) lang.

Ang luod lang gud nga naagian nako ngadto sa norte kay ang kanang mga tao nga ningamit sa mga sayup nilang nahibaw-an kanato aron mapasakitan ang usa ka tao. Lain baya na nga kataw-an ka o himuon nga kataw-anan ang usa ka tao. Mao gud naa ang labi ka makasurok sa dugo nako ngadto, nga himuong ipakauwaw ang akoang pagkabisdak. Pareho lang na atong usa nako ka classmate nga ningkalit lang ug yawit nga, 'Buti pa ang mga Bisaya, may credit card.' Nagngisi pa nga mura'g joke lang to. Nasuya ra man to ang kagwang kay wala man siya'y iyaha.

[flesh_is_weak]

@Mercato: salamat...hehehe...kabantay diay ka sa akong avatar...

pero dili na nako mahimong usbon kay wala man nako na gibuhat dinhi sa amoa--ang computer sa akong inahan walay photoshop--ako pa intawon na gi-adto sa public library didto sa siyudad para himoon, pero naa may bayad kung mogamit ko didto sa computer na dunay photoshop--tag $2.50 ang kinse minutos...

ako lang sigurong suwayan dinhi sa MS paint...kung dili gani sunod semana na lang inig adto nako balik sa library...

[Ang_Bantayanon]

Let us now praise famous Visayans

By Amadís Ma. Guerrero
Philippine Daily Inquirer
First Posted 00:02:00 11/10/2008

MANILA, Philippines - Ambot sa imo, have the Visayans taken over Metro Manila, which is supposed to be the “Tagalog heartland”? Why, just the other day my choirmaster, the composer Jerry A. Dadap, a true-blue Visayan from Southern Leyte, was telling us that latest surveys reveal that in the metropolis there are now more Visayans than Tagalogs, Ilocanos, etc.

Well, as a Tagalog with many Visayan friends, I can only say hooray and welcome sa inyong tanan, or something to that effect.

These random thoughts crept through my Ermita, Manila, consciousness during the recent press conference to announce “Si Lapulapu, si Rosas Pandan: A Bisayan Musical Extravaganza.” The show will be staged on Nov. 22, 8 p.m., at the Cultural Center of the Philippines. The press con was held at the CCP’s Silangan Hall.

The musical event is being presented by Kadugong Bisaya Foundation Inc. in cooperation with the CCP and the Department of Tourism (which is, of course, headed by a Visayan).

“Si Lapulapu” brings together a galaxy of artists and groups (not all are Visayans). These include Joey Ayala, Bayang Barrios, Elizabeth Ramsey, Jaya, Rachelle Gerodias, José Mari Chan, Nonie Buencamino, Raki Vega, Deeda Barreto, the Philippine Madrigal Singers, the Philippine Dance Sports Association, Ballet Philippines, Modern Ballet Dancers, the Ramon Obusan Folkloric Group and composer Dadap’s Andres Bonifacio Concert Choir (ABCC).

Male choristers of the ABCC—led by tenor Jericho Alcala and bass Erick Borlaza—will sing two Visayan canciones (serenades). They will also back up actor Cesar Montano, who plays Lapulapu, the Visayan chieftain who killed Magellan. (Rosas Pandan, on the other hand, is a symbol of Visayan beauty and virtue.)

The Philippine Philharmonic Orchestra will be led by Chino Toledo. Program director is Chris Millado.

The language issue arose during the press con, although not in a confrontational way. José V. Abueva, former President of the University of the Philippines and now foundation chair of Kalayaan College, declared that “under the onslaught of globalization, Americanization and—some say, ‘Tagalization’—our indigenous languages, except Tagalog, are being marginalized and threatened with extinction.”

Abueva hastened to add that he was not against Filipino as a national language “as it evolves” (as mandated by the 1987 Constitution). But “as of now, Filipino is 95 percent Tagalog. So it is important that various regional languages should contribute to the national language.”

Baltazar Endriga, former CCP president and now foundation president, said that Philippine culture “is not a monoculture, it is many cultures blending into one national culture.”

He added: “Visayan culture is very rich. The signature dance Tinikling, for instance, originated in the Visayas, in Leyte.”

“Sa Kabukiran,” by Velez-Galicano is better known as a Tagalog song, Endriga pointed out, but it is really Visayan. Same with the popular Christmas carol “Ang Pasko Ay Sumapit” (with lyrics by National Artist Levi Celerio). In its original Visayan version (“Kasadya Ning Takna-a”) this song, to be sung by all participants, will cap the Nov. 22 concert.

“Let us respect Visayan, regional cultures,” Endriga concluded. “Through unity in diversity, we are able to enrich Philippine culture.”

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

Apan mas labaw silang dili makasabot sa nag-usbong nga garbo sa Sugbuanon. Pride of Place o bien nacionalismo ba kaha ang angay itawag niini, wa sab kaau ko masuheto. Ang ilaha ra giud nga dili ni maau nga butang, nga para nila nalisang sila niini kay kuan kuno, kining "pagdumot" o "kaligutgot" kuno kini batok kanila. Kaluoy sa mga paloy, diha ra pod jud kutob ang ilang pamensar... :lol:

mao gyud bai @mercato... wa gyud sila makasabot di man unta ta mga bogo para di pud ta makasabot sa ilang mga yangngongo, ang ato lang kay unta sila pud makasabot kanato. mu-tuo man gyud ko na basta magsinabtanay lang ta ug magrespetohay kay ang di pagsinabtanay dili gyud mahitabo. maglagot ko usahay ngano ilang giconsiderar kini na pagdumot kung kita di ganahan magtinagawog, nganong ila pa man ta pugson sa usa ka butang na di nato gusto. diba nasayod man kita na di maayo ang mamugos kay mahimo nang sala batok kanimo? ato lang gipasabot kanila na di kinahanglan magtinagawog para mahimong pilipino. nganong mahadlok man sila kanato? nganong inana gyud sila makadepensa? mahadlok ba sila na mapulihan natong mga bisaya? o ba kaha mahadlok lang sila na muabot ang panahon na sila nalang ang makama-ong magtinagawog ug ang uban di na makasabot nila mao grabe ilang tinguha na idepensa ang ilang pulong.salamat:)

[Mercato]

^^^^ :lol: Kay ngano, kinsay bogo? Yati ra, ka-bright nato, unya mga guapo'g mga guapa pa jud, malalim ba na. aww, mao giud, wa'ay como sa rinespetohay na lang. Katong sa una abi nakog ako rang usa ang adunay mga idea nga ingon niani bahin sa Sugbu og sa Binisaya nga lenguaje. Hangtod na lang nga milarga ko, abi sab nakog sus tingalig weird na giud ko kay ako ra giuy nagsigueg hunahuna niining binisaya. Unya kadtong bag-o pa ko sa ssc nakamatikod ko nga init kaniadto ang debate bahin sa Federalisimo. Inanay nakabantay ko nga daghan pa diay ang ganahan pa sa atong lenguaje. :banana: Nagsugod tingali sa Federalisimo o tingali'g dugay na tingali ning mga pangandoy sa mga bisaya, apan nagkadaghan sa mga batan-on ang mikaplag og bag-ong pasigarbo sa ilahang herencia, sa ilahang kultura.

Apan nakamatikod pod ko nga midaghan sab sa mga batan-on nga dili makasabot og medium-deep sugbuanon. Kay kausa nagpatik ko'g post didto sa karaang Cebu Thread 73 o 74, unya na'ay mireklamong mga bisdak nga dili kuno sila makasugakod o makasabot sa (para nila) "lawom" nga binisaya. Kaanugon pod kon tinuod kaha to.

Tungod kay tinuod ra ba tong gisulti sa DILFED. "Ang Manobo dili mo matawag nga tinuod nga Manobo kon dili siya makalitok sa ilahang pinulongan. Mao sab sa Sugbuanon. Molahi man god ang panglantaw sa kinabuhi og sa pamensar og sa kasingkasing kon maantigo kang mobinisaya unya bisdak ka, mientras kon bisdak ka lang sa nga'an ‘nya dili ka maantigo sa binisaya, daw maora la'g wa'a. Maau ka lang tawgon nga AmerKano.

Dili baya sab ko makaingon nga expert caayo ko niini apan namatikdan ko nga sukad niadto nga nagsigue ko og patik sa binisaya, dako baya caayo ang akong improvement sa written form of Cebuano, puera buyag. Daghan kaayo kog mga fine tuning karon. Hinaut unta nga ang mga batan-on makat-on sab sa maong clase sa binisaya. :)

[Mercato]

@Mercato: salamat...hehehe...kabantay diay ka sa akong avatar...Nakabantay kay badlongon ta tika kay ngano mang imong gigamit ang mapa sa Japan.... oiiii, unya pagtanaw nako og usab dili man diay mapa sa Japan; mapa man diay sa Cebu!! :lol: Bitau, tanawa ang mapa sa duruha dili ba kay kamay-ong.

Ayaaay, morag naa na koy idea sa atoang Federal State Flag, dah... maorag United Nations nga gi-combine sa Euro ang bandera, muajajaja :lol:

[Sleepwalker]

Ayaw ka-problema Bai @Mercato, kay wa ka mag-inusara ning atong
pagpangita og kagawasan sa atong kaugalingon nga kultura...Hinoon, sa akong pagsabot, wala man gibilanggo ang atong kultura, apan mao lagi, pugson ta sa pagsunod sa anino sa uban kultura, nga diin sayop kaayo...Kanindot ra ato paminawon sa binisaya nga national anthem ah...unya gipahunong, kay ngano kaha?

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

^^^^ :lol: Kay ngano, kinsay bogo? Yati ra, ka-bright nato, unya mga guapo'g mga guapa pa jud, malalim ba na. aww, mao giud, wa'ay como sa rinespetohay na lang. Katong sa una abi nakog ako rang usa ang adunay mga idea nga ingon niani bahin sa Sugbu og sa Binisaya nga lenguaje. Hangtod na lang nga milarga ko, abi sab nakog sus tingalig weird na giud ko kay ako ra giuy nagsigueg hunahuna niining binisaya. Unya kadtong bag-o pa ko sa ssc nakamatikod ko nga init kaniadto ang debate bahin sa Federalisimo. Inanay nakabantay ko nga daghan pa diay ang ganahan pa sa atong lenguaje. :banana: Nagsugod tingali sa Federalisimo o tingali'g dugay na tingali ning mga pangandoy sa mga bisaya, apan nagkadaghan sa mga batan-on ang mikaplag og bag-ong pasigarbo sa ilahang herencia, sa ilahang kultura.

Apan nakamatikod pod ko nga midaghan sab sa mga batan-on nga dili makasabot og medium-deep sugbuanon. Kay kausa nagpatik ko'g post didto sa karaang Cebu Thread 73 o 74, unya na'ay mireklamong mga bisdak nga dili kuno sila makasugakod o makasabot sa (para nila) "lawom" nga binisaya. Kaanugon pod kon tinuod kaha to.

Tungod kay tinuod ra ba tong gisulti sa DILFED. "Ang Manobo dili mo matawag nga tinuod nga Manobo kon dili siya makalitok sa ilahang pinulongan. Mao sab sa Sugbuanon. Molahi man god ang panglantaw sa kinabuhi og sa pamensar og sa kasingkasing kon maantigo kang mobinisaya unya bisdak ka, mientras kon bisdak ka lang sa nga'an ‘nya dili ka maantigo sa binisaya, daw maora la'g wa'a. Maau ka lang tawgon nga AmerKano.

Dili baya sab ko makaingon nga expert caayo ko niini apan namatikdan ko nga sukad niadto nga nagsigue ko og patik sa binisaya, dako baya caayo ang akong improvement sa written form of Cebuano, puera buyag. Daghan kaayo kog mga fine tuning karon. Hinaut unta nga ang mga batan-on makat-on sab sa maong clase sa binisaya. :)

bravo! mao gyud bai @mercato. ako pud pareho ta ug pagtuo na basin ako na lang ang naay nagdilaab na paghigugma sa sinibuanong pinulongan pero pagkadamlag nako aning SSC kay diri ko nagsugod nakamatikod na di ra d.i ako naginusara apan may daghan pa d.i nagpakabana sa sinibuanong pinulongan ug nalipay gyud ko higalang mercato ug kaninyong tanan.

maski ako pud kay di pud gyud ko masujeto sa pinulongang sinibuano kay wa gyud koy pormal o saktong pagtuon bahin niini apan ganahan gyud ko na dili mamatay o mahikalimot ang atong mga kabatan-onan na angay gyud natong ipreservar ang atong herencia ug cultura para naay bili ang atong pagkasugbuanon. :cheers:

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

Ayaw ka-problema Bai @Mercato, kay wa ka mag-inusara ning atong
pagpangita og kagawasan sa atong kaugalingon nga kultura...Hinoon, sa akong pagsabot, wala man gibilanggo ang atong kultura, apan mao lagi, pugson ta sa pagsunod sa anino sa uban kultura, nga diin sayop kaayo...Kanindot ra ato paminawon sa binisaya nga national anthem ah...unya gipahunong, kay ngano kaha?

dah, magduda pa kaha ta ngano? pero bahala nalang na gipahunong ang Yutang Tabunon basta nakasaysay kita ngadto kanila sa tinuoray na paghigugma sa atong nasud pinaagi sa paggamit sa atong kaugalingong pinulongan. nagpamatuod lang na na silang mga nagpahunong sa maong pagkanta niini walay pakabana ug walay respeto sa ubang pinulongan dinhi sa atong nasud. kung ako pa adto, ako gihapon ipadayon bahalag nakapatik pa na sa balaud na kinahanglan sa pinulogang tagawog ra mahimong makanta ang himno nacional kay dili na makiangayon ug dapat nang ilisan. :cheers:

[Wind Shear]

@Mercato: salamat...hehehe...kabantay diay ka sa akong avatar...

pero dili na nako mahimong usbon kay wala man nako na gibuhat dinhi sa amoa--ang computer sa akong inahan walay photoshop--ako pa intawon na gi-adto sa public library didto sa siyudad para himoon, pero naa may bayad kung mogamit ko didto sa computer na dunay photoshop--tag $2.50 ang kinse minutos...

ako lang sigurong suwayan dinhi sa MS paint...kung dili gani sunod semana na lang inig adto nako balik sa library...

Kabantay sad ko sa imong hulagway nga bandera: nindot ang imong gibuhat da!

Asa naman diay ka nahimutang karon nga dolyares na mana ang imong panalapi (currency)? :D

[habagatcentral1]

The good thing though in the case of Visayas, the mother tongue is still strong for the case of the three major languages but it is resulting in reduction of smaller languages versus the so-called "Imperial Visayan Lingua Franca languages":

For example:
Bantayanon's reduction due to influx of Cebuano language from mainland.*
Kinaray-a and Aklanon's reduction due to the influx of Hiligaynon-Sina coming from the cities of Iloilo and Bacolod.*

Language takes over another culture and the likes. Anyway, in the case of Mindanao at least I could get a better grasp why people would refer to the language spoken there as "Bisaya" instead of certain specific titles such as "Cebuano", "Waray", "Ilonggo", etc. because of the influx of different Filipino ethno-linguistic groups, and increased interaction therefore increasing the tendency to mix some words up with other languages as well.

But I am still intrigued why do most people associate the "Bisaya" language to the language spoken in Central Visayas as contrasted to Hiligaynon-Ilonggo or Waray?

[MatudNilaBaby]

Not in my experience, whenever i had to talk to them in tagalog, they respond respectfully in tagalog and if they can't say it clearly in tagalog, they would excuse themselves by saying it's really hard for them to speak tagalog and if they say something in bisaya, they would make sure I picked up what they said because there are many words in Cebuano or bisaya that is similar to tagalogs, ofcourse , they would mixed it with inherited spanish words and some english, so, it's clear. Those who was rude to me at first realized that I was just someone who visited the city for the first time, after that, everything went smoothly and worse comes to worse, if we are both having hard time understanding one another, I would speak to them in english, mostly, they would respond in english, there are some who would be embarrassed to speak english. I think that is the most polite way in interracting to one another whether are tagalog or bisaya. Because if you force someone who just came from a tagalog region to speak bisaya , you're pretty much imposing yourself and not being so welcoming...

Many bisaya can understand tagalog, they might not be able to speak it but they understand you clearly. There is not crime in speaking back to them in mostly bisaya, I mean if you really can't speak tagalog and is not comfortable with it, then you can just explain it nicely. The tagalog is in your region, surely if they know if they would be staying there much longer, they would start learning bisaya such as the case of my wife aunt who is tagalog married to a bisaya, she speaks bisaya back.... And that is what I usually do, if they asked me if I speak or understand I would reply to them "makasabot man ko pero gamay bai/tia/tio".

Habagat and Icarus are the ones who has a more better understanding of the tagalogs because they both constantly going back and forth between two regions, they are bisaya and illongga but they have a better grasp of what is going on. They understand the tagalogs better than a bisaya who never actually lived in the tagalog region. I'm sure there are many tagalogs also who doesn't understnd where the bisaya are coming from so, again, it works both ways...

you seem to insist on speaking tagalog while in cebu territory and let the native cebuanos adjust and letting them talk to you in tagalog? why are you trying to inconvenience the native people scambling to find tagalog words to put in their mouth and say it back to you so can be understood. tagalog is not natural for the cebuanos so it is an inconvience for us. that is why when the subject of conversation is language, cebuano insist on speaking bisaya in bisaya territory and you speak tagalog in tagalog territory. if we want to speak to each other and we dont know each others languages then speak a common language english.

here is the bottom line of cebuano mentality: when you are in cebu you are to speak in cebuano or english because when the cebuanos go to the tagalog reqion im sure they are preparing to speak tagalog maski bali bali pa or they will use english as a form of communication.

[habagatcentral1]

^^ Mangutana ko para sa mga tao diri: Paano kon ako ya usa ka di edukado nga tawo nga makadto sa Sugbo og dili kahibalo mosulti Sinugbohanon unya Tagalog ra ang akong kahibalo, unsa akong buhaton para makaistorya og maka-communicate ninyo? Will I still be welcome here? My only aim is just to land a job and does not know stereotyping whatsoever?

[Sleepwalker]

^^ Mangutana ko para sa mga tao diri: Paano kon ako ya usa ka di edukado nga tawo nga makadto sa Sugbo og dili kahibalo mosulti Sinugbohanon unya Tagalog ra ang akong kahibalo, unsa akong buhaton para makaistorya og maka-communicate ninyo? Will I still be welcome here? My only aim is just to land a job and does not know stereotyping whatsoever?


Perhaps this is an isolated case...It just so happen, nga ang Tagalog nga language kay morag naa pakapin nga pasweto nga feeling ug kanang pahari-hari nga effect ba, pero sa case sa imong pangutana, i think, it's an isolated case...Cebuanos are still humans, kahibalo pud siguro motimbang timbang og sitwasyon.

[habagatcentral1]

^^ Are you in Cebu right now? Paminawa lang sa ang bag-o nga commercial sa Head and Shoulders Shampoo sa radyo unya comment lang kamo diri sa thread kon unsa ang unod (laman) sa commercial ad.

Pasensyaha ko kay mag-sagul man pod bitaw ang Hiligaynon, Tagalog og Sugbohanon nako...
I would be a hypocrite if I say that I'm fluent deep down with my own mother tongue...but I am fluent in conversational language of today.

[bukid]

^^ Mangutana ko para sa mga tao diri: Paano kon ako ya usa ka di edukado nga tawo nga makadto sa Sugbo og dili kahibalo mosulti Sinugbohanon unya Tagalog ra ang akong kahibalo, unsa akong buhaton para makaistorya og maka-communicate ninyo? Will I still be welcome here? My only aim is just to land a job and does not know stereotyping whatsoever?

sign language. :)

[habagatcentral1]

dp

[Mercato]

^^^^ :lol: Now, now, I caught a glimpse of that post before you edited it out. 'Tis only similar to the one quoted by bukid, so if I may respond to it please.

Of course, I would accept you. So what was the context about? I take it that we are dealing with the context of you living amongst Cebuanos then. Yes, I do not see any reason why not. With the extreme example you set - humanely, realistically and respectfully I will accept you and I will speak Tagalog to you. :)

Albeit at some point in the not so distant future I will also expect you to learn from us. Any hint or sign of refusal or non-assimilation will naturally put you out of the circle. ‘Tis as simple as that really. Much in the same way I assimilated amongst the Southern Tagalogs & became fluent in their tongue. :)

Now it’s my turn. Howbeit I may also swing the tables around and take you to the other extreme of the pendulum. Take the case of Cebu Thread 75 where someone wrote eloquently in medium-deep tagalog because he wanted to be “understood” or begging the public for “understanding” re the plight of the CCMC. How’s that going to help at all? As it turns out, the guy can speak some Cebuano after all (but he initially refused and I had to prompt him) – he could have used combined English & Cebuano if his intentions were to be “understood”. But no he did not. Instead it betrayed his lack of appreciation of local culture and unwillingness to conform with us. Look, we were not born yesterday and yours truly can detect tones of condescension in written form even if it was couched in seemingly “polite” prose. This is an example of the "other" extremity. :lol:

You see, there are no hard and fast rules as to why and how and up to what point one should stand his solitary ground just on the basis of utter stubbornness. ‘Tis pure madness. No man is an island, and this poignant rule holds all the more true when a complete stranger has to make the choice between setting himself apart from his neighbours or assimilating with his neighbours. This much is true in any environment ; in any place around the world. :cheers:

[mwg12a]

you seem to insist on speaking tagalog while in cebu territory and let the native cebuanos adjust and letting them talk to you in tagalog? why are you trying to inconvenience the native people scambling to find tagalog words to put in their mouth and say it back to you so can be understood. tagalog is not natural for the cebuanos so it is an inconvience for us. that is why when the subject of conversation is language, cebuano insist on speaking bisaya in bisaya territory and you speak tagalog in tagalog territory. if we want to speak to each other and we dont know each others languages then speak a common language english.

here is the bottom line of cebuano mentality: when you are in cebu you are to speak in cebuano or english because when the cebuanos go to the tagalog reqion im sure they are preparing to speak tagalog maski bali bali pa or they will use english as a form of communication.

Let me ask you this? If you are for instance a tagalog or kapangpangan or Ilokano that happens to be assign or even visited Cebu for the first time, do you expect yourself to learn Cebuano language right away? isn't that a little bit stupid?

Yes, definitely, tagalog is not the mother tongue of the cebuanos, but you cant' deny that they hear tagalog over the years in TV, movies or radio with the exception of your own local radio and TV programs. I don't think that is imposition of the tagalog language to YOU AS A CEBUANO. It would be just a comon courtesy as a host citizen of your city to welcome visitor. You do speak english to foreigners right? Why don't you tell them to speak in your language when they talk to you as they are imposing to you a language not native to your City, much less your home or any cebuano in general... I'm sure there are alot of Cebuanos speaks english but how many are those who really speak at home in pure english and not Cebuano. English is not your mother tongue because it is not what you and your ancestors originally spoke to themselves therefore the english language is also being imposed to you.WHY IS IT MORE ACCEPTABLE? IT BOILS DOWN TO ONE THING. "COLONIAL MENTALITY. Infatuation of something connected to white race much like the spaniards.... I have nothing against them but I was just pointing the fact that why is it that english is acceptable but not tagalog or any filipino languages in the Philippines is the official language? Any language serves the same purpose anyway. COMMUINICATION AND UNDERSTANDING OF ONE ANOTHER and since we are all filipinos, same heritage, same colonizer. Why can't we accept what we have? I am willing to accept Bisaya as an official language, it does not change my maternal's spoken language and myself. I'd still be a tagalog, kapangpangan or Ilocano if I speak Bisaya to communicate with fellow filipinos. A language is needed to be picked as a national or official languge since there are more than 5 languages and dialects in the Philippines.


The thing is, tagalog considered the national language or perhaps an official language just to communicate with not just the tagalogs themselves but to the kapangpangan, ilocano, bilinao, maranao and so forth. It is not meant to extinguish any other regional languages in the Philippines since. AGAIN, there is NO LAW BANNING the use of other regional languages in the Philippines AT HOME, THE STREET TO YOUR FRIENDS AND MOSTLY, THE CITY YOU ARE IN.

cebuano insist on speaking bisaya in bisaya territory and you speak tagalog in tagalog territory. if we want to speak to each other and we dont know each others languages then speak a common language english.

here is the bottom line of cebuano mentality: when you are in cebu you are to speak in cebuano or english because when the cebuanos go to the tagalog reqion im sure they are preparing to speak tagalog maski bali bali pa or they will use english as a form of communication.


These lines are lines of imposing onself on others....

The national language is not english, not everybody are well educated, even in Cebu, the poor people who are not priveledged with a much higher education like you and myself does not speak english and I have experienced asking a Cebuano out in the street who are that way. They atleast understood tagalogs but can't respond in tagalog but I understood them.

I definitely respond into a pure english in cebu if they responded in english, same goes with other filipinos and tagalogs , even on board a PAL flight with PAL flight attendants. The problem with the PAL flight attendants is that they would "F'ing" start to you and english and when you f'ing respond in pure english without batting your eyes, they would f'ing start talking to you in either tagalog or bisaya. What is up with that????

This is really what the biggest problem in the Philippines and this is not just for the Cebuanos, it's the whole filipinos in general (with exception of some of course) The colonial mentality amongst filipinos are so strong that whenever they see someone foreign, especially caucasian people. They are all willing to bend over backward just to please them, make them feel accomodated. They would immitate everything they do even the manner of speaking, the way they dress, hell there are even men in the Philippines that wears blue contact lenses and would bleach their skin to the whitest the can possibly get themselves. Heck, everybody in the Philippines are all afraid to get under the sun for the fear of getting darker it is just so f'ing unbelievable.

Sus, mau nang daghang bayot sa tibuok filipinas...LMAO

[Sleepwalker]

Let me ask you this? If you are for instance a tagalog or kapangpangan or Ilokano that happens to be assign or even visited Cebu for the first time, do you expect yourself to learn Cebuano language right away? isn't that a little bit stupid?

Yes, definitely, tagalog is not the mother tongue of the cebuanos, but you cant' deny that they hear tagalog over the years in TV, movies or radio with the exception of your own local radio and TV programs. I don't think that is imposition of the tagalog language to YOU AS A CEBUANO. It would be just a comon courtesy as a host citizen of your city to welcome visitor. You do speak english to foreigners right? Why don't you tell them to speak in your language when they talk to you as they are imposing to you a language not native to your City, much less your home or any cebuano in general... I'm sure there are alot of Cebuanos speaks english but how many are those who really speak at home in pure english and not Cebuano. English is not your mother tongue because it is not what you and your ancestors originally spoke to themselves therefore the english language is also being imposed to you.WHY IS IT MORE ACCEPTABLE? IT BOILS DOWN TO ONE THING. "COLONIAL MENTALITY. Infatuation of something connected to white race much like the spaniards.... I have nothing against them but I was just pointing the fact that why is it that english is acceptable but not tagalog or any filipino languages in the Philippines is the official language? Any language serves the same purpose anyway. COMMUINICATION AND UNDERSTANDING OF ONE ANOTHER and since we are all filipinos, same heritage, same colonizer. Why can't we accept what we have? I am willing to accept Bisaya as an official language, it does not change my maternal's spoken language and myself. I'd still be a tagalog, kapangpangan or Ilocano if I speak Bisaya to communicate with fellow filipinos. A language is needed to be picked as a national or official languge since there are more than 5 languages and dialects in the Philippines.


The thing is, tagalog considered the national language or perhaps an official language just to communicate with not just the tagalogs themselves but to the kapangpangan, ilocano, bilinao, maranao and so forth. It is not meant to extinguish any other regional languages in the Philippines since. AGAIN, there is NO LAW BANNING the use of other regional languages in the Philippines AT HOME, THE STREET TO YOUR FRIENDS AND MOSTLY, THE CITY YOU ARE IN.




These lines are lines of imposing onself on others....

The national language is not english, not everybody are well educated, even in Cebu, the poor people who are not priveledged with a much higher education like you and myself does not speak english and I have experienced asking a Cebuano out in the street who are that way. They atleast understood tagalogs but can't respond in tagalog but I understood them.

I definitely respond into a pure english in cebu if they responded in english, same goes with other filipinos and tagalogs , even on board a PAL flight with PAL flight attendants. The problem with the PAL flight attendants is that they would "F'ing" start to you and english and when you f'ing respond in pure english without batting your eyes, they would f'ing start talking to you in either tagalog or bisaya. What is up with that????

This is really what the biggest problem in the Philippines and this is not just for the Cebuanos, it's the whole filipinos in general (with exception of some of course) The colonial mentality amongst filipinos are so strong that whenever they see someone foreign, especially caucasian people. They are all willing to bend over backward just to please them, make them feel accomodated. They would immitate everything they do even the manner of speaking, the way they dress, hell there are even men in the Philippines that wears blue contact lenses and would bleach their skin to the whitest the can possibly get themselves. Heck, everybody in the Philippines are all afraid to get under the sun for the fear of getting darker it is just so f'ing unbelievable.

Sus, mau nang daghang bayot sa tibuok filipinas...LMAO

Hehehehehehhe...We call them Anaconda or Snake Eyes.... :)

[le Reine]

Why can't you all just talk about how to promote the Bisayan language? I certainly do not think that antagonizing Tagalog or other languages and vice versa, could help in that cause. This thread was made just so people would have an idea about the Bisayan language but I can see that the topic is veering away from that. Shape up or this thread will close.

Debating about the use of Cebuano, Filipino or any other language in "Cebuano territory" is not the point here. You may debate about it all you want but I can assure you that it will just end up in circles. So please, just quit it now. Can't you all just agree to disagree?

[bukid]

^^ that is exactly what they are doing. they want to lift the ban on singing the national anthem in cebuano but unfortuantely they can't do that. it's against the law. and they also want to promote the use of bisaya as a medium of instruction in school while at the same time removing the "filipino/tagalog" subject in elementary. and substitute it with cebuano language lessons. but then again that's not yet possible, then there is the question of people opposing to that idea because it is believe to be another financial burden for the country and so that's where all these started. so IMHO, why don't we just permit the singing of our national anthem in the vernacular, and remove tagalog subject in elementary and remove tagalog as a "national language". i think when we do that, all these debate would end. that's just my opinion.

[mwg12a]

@ MarieAntonnette>>>I already have expressed what I needed to say. I can go on with practicing my bisaya. You're right somehow. I think it's a hopeless case and there is nothing can be accomplished. That is how filipinos are going to be like. I guess if you are not happy what you hear or see around, leave the country and be somebody else.

If you know someone who can transform me into a real white man, other than Vicky Belo, who is very expensive, let me know so I don't have to be filipino anymore when I look at myself in the mirror. Pero, wag na rin, sayang ang pagka guapo ko, ughhhhhhhhhhh puke puke...LMAO

I like Bukid's idea somehow in the past. It also make sense...

BTW Matudnila.... I don't think I've ever spoken in this thread in any language except Bisaya and english, with the exception with this especific one when I tried to speak to marieantonnette.

[le Reine]

^^ that is exactly what they are doing. they want to lift the ban on singing the national anthem in cebuano but unfortuantely they can't do that. it's against the law. and they also want to promote the use of bisaya as a medium of instruction in school while at the same time removing the "filipino/tagalog" subject in elementary. and substitute it with cebuano language lessons. but then again that's not yet possible, then there is the question of people opposing to that idea because it is believe to be another financial burden for the country and so that's where all these started. so IMHO, why don't we just permit the singing of our national anthem in the vernacular, and remove tagalog subject in elementary and remove tagalog as a "national language". i think when we do that, all these debate would end. that's just my opinion.Well, as much as we want to dwell on that topic, it would be close to impossible to have a resolution to it. The law is the law. And we cannot do anything about that.

I believe the lawmakers might have thought that perhaps it should only be sung in the national language for unity's sake. That's also the reason why Filipino (as opposed to Tagalog, no matter how people would debate on this, it is still Filipino) was chosen as the national language of the Philippines. And as a reflection of that, the Filipino language is taught in every school around the country. Use of other languages is certainly not prohibited BUT I think we should also respect the constitution (and the millions of people who voted yes in 1987), which states that Filipino and English are the official languages and thus, be used in the entire archipelago. I rest my case.

[mwg12a]

When I was in the Philippines, I have heard them play the national anthem in different regional languages on television once and it was long long time ago.

[bukid]

Well, as much as we want to dwell on that topic, it would be close to impossible to have a resolution to it. The law is the law. And we cannot do anything about that.

I believe the lawmakers might have thought that perhaps it should only be sung in the national language for unity's sake. That's also the reason why Filipino (as opposed to Tagalog, no matter how people would debate on this, it is still Filipino) was chosen as the national language of the Philippines. And as a reflection of that, the Filipino language is taught in every school around the country. Use of other languages is certainly not prohibited BUT I think we should also respect the constitution (and the millions of people who voted yes in 1987), which states that Filipino and English are the official languages and thus, be used in the entire archipelago. I rest my case.

YES to Charter Change. YES to Federalism! :D

[Sleepwalker]

When I was in the Philippines, I have heard them play the national anthem in different regional languages on television once and it was long long time ago.

For brainwashing purposes only...Heheheheheh

To let the people think, the government cared for all of Philippines....As if they really cared...:ohno::ohno::ohno:

If indeed they allow singing the national anthem on different regional language, why stop Cebu's "Yutang Tabunon"?

[le Reine]

For brainwashing purposes only...Heheheheheh

To let the people think, the government cared for all of Philippines....As if they really cared...:ohno::ohno::ohno:

If indeed they allow singing the national anthem on different regional language, why stop Cebu's "Yutang Tabunon"?We certainly don't know. Again, we're going back to what was debated before.

[Sleepwalker]

:banana::cheer::banana: Mabuhi ka Sugbo!!!! Mabuhi ang mga Bisdak!!! :banana::cheer::banana:

[mwg12a]

For brainwashing purposes only...Heheheheheh

To let the people think, the government cared for all of Philippines....As if they really cared...:ohno::ohno::ohno:

If indeed they allow singing the national anthem on different regional language, why stop Cebu's "Yutang Tabunon"?

That's messed up "yutang" LMAO

Anyway, has there anybody who is known to have sung the National antemn in Cebuano version publicly got thrown in jail??? Just curious is all...

Mabuhi tanan puwedi mabuhi !! Tindog tanan puwedi magtindog !!! LOL

[bukid]

That's messed up "yutang" LMAO

Anyway, has there anybody who is known to have sung the National antemn in Cebuano version publicly got thrown in jail??? Just curious is all...

none, but they were all reprimanded. it's almost the same as being thrown in jail. no one dared to file a case against cebuanos singing the anthem in cebuano but the problem is the law is there. and that law bans the singing of the national anthem in cebuano.

[Sleepwalker]

That's messed up "yutang" LMAO

Anyway, has there anybody who is known to have sung the National antemn in Cebuano version publicly got thrown in jail??? Just curious is all...

AFAIK, none so far...But for DECS people, keeping their jobs is better than fighting for the "Yutang Tabunon", IMHO.

[Sleepwalker]

That's messed up "yutang" LMAO

Anyway, has there anybody who is known to have sung the National antemn in Cebuano version publicly got thrown in jail??? Just curious is all...

Mabuhi tanan puwedi mabuhi !! Tindog tanan puwedi magtindog !!! LOL

Ang di na pwede makatindog, inutil!!! Hhahahahahaha

[mwg12a]

How about peaceful rally in the street of Cebu and infront of Malacanang maybe?
Ang di na pwede makatindog, inutil!!! Hhahahahahaha


Kinananglan maginum ng Viagra!!! LMAO

[Sleepwalker]

How about peaceful rally in the street of Cebu and infront of Malacanang maybe?



Kinananglan maginum ng Viagra!!! LMAO

If you happen to be in Cebu, try Vino Viagro or Fighter Wine...Tanan motindog, hasta imong mga balhibo...Hehehehehehe

[bukid]

How about peaceful rally in the street of Cebu and infront of Malacanang maybe?

the cebuanos are too proud of their social and intellectual status, enough to make them feel how degrading it would be to be in the street to beg for anything that they believe is their right. they know that the pen is mightier than the sword. but they also know that the sundang won lapulapu his honor and prestige as a hero of the bisayan race. :D

[habagatcentral1]

^^ The great question....is it really Lapu-Lapu or is it Kalipulaku/Caliph Pulaku? It reminds me of VS101 (Visayan Studies 101) subject back at UP... :lol:

[Sleepwalker]

Caliph? Does it mean, that Lapu-lapu was a Muslim? I was thinking that there was no Muslim settlement within the Visayas area during the pre-Hispanic time.

[bukid]

^^ The great question....is it really Lapu-Lapu or is it Kalipulaku/Caliph Pulaku? It reminds me of VS101 (Visayan Studies 101) subject back at UP...:nuts: :lol:

Kali-pulaku is sanskrit.

Kali means swords, pula means red or dark brown.

brown sugar is even called "pula na asukar". though asukar is spanish, i just want to demostrate that pula in the bisayas is equivalent to "red". and there was a legend that says lapulapu had a "red face".

there was no way lapulapu would be a caliph because there was no evidence he says he was a caliph. only the sulu account says he was but then again sulu was trying to take lapulapu's prestige as if they own him. what we know for sure is that according to local legend his ancestors are from borneo and not from sulu. sulu became a sultanate only during the late 1400's but lapulapu's ancestors were believed to be already in the bisayas before the 1400's.

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

Visayan Versions

Cebuano
by Jess Vestil

Yutang tabunon
Mutya nga masilakon,
Putling bahandi,
Amo kang gimahal.

Mithing gisimba,
Yuta's mga bayani,
Sa manlulupig,
Pagadapigan ka.

Ang mga buntod mo,
Ug lapyahan sa langit mong bughaw,
Nagahulad sa awit, lamdag sa
Kaliwat tang gawas.

Silaw sa adlaw ug bituon
Sa nasudnong bandila,
Nagatima-an nga buhion ta
Ang atong pagka-usa.

Yutang maanyag, duyan ka sa pagmahal,
Landong sa langit ang dughan mo;
Pakatam-ison namo nga nagatukaw
Kon mamatay man sa ngalan mo.

Hiligaynon
by Galiza, Hosillos, Montano, Mulato, and Pamonag

Banwang masinadyahon,
Perlas sang nasidlangan,
Init sang tigpusuon,
Gakabuhi sa imo nga dughan.

Banwang guinhalaran,
Payag ka sang maisog,
Sa mga manugpigos,
Wala guid nagapadaog.

Sa dagat kag bukid,
Sa usbong kag sa dagway nga gabanaag,
May idlak kag tibok ang dilambong,
Kag amba sang kahilwayan.

Ang idlak sang ayahay mo,
Isa ka matam-is nga kadalag-an,
Ang bituon kag ang adlaw mo,
Nangin masanag sa katubtuban.

Dutang nasambit sang adlaw kag paghigugma,
Sa sabak mo matam-is ang mabuhi,
Ginapakipagbato namon, nga kung may manugpanakop,
Ang mapatay nahanungod sa imo.

Aklanon
by Melchor F. Cichon

Banwang haeangdon
Onga't Adlaw nga Oriente.
Sa imong dughan
Ro kaeayo gadabdab.

Banwa it gugma;
Duyan it baganihan.
Ro mga sumaeakay
Indi makaeapak.

Sa asul nga eangit, sa agahon
Sa bukid, sa eawod,
Ring binaeaybay gasiga,
Sa mahae nga kahilwayan.

Ro kasiga king bandera
Gatao't pwersa sa kadaeag-an.
Maski hin-uno ring bituon, ring adlaw
Owa't pagkapaeong.

Eugta't kalipayan, eugta it pagmahae.
Sa imong sabak himaya ro pangabuhi.
Gloria para kamon nga maghaead it dugo
Kon kimo may magsipaea.

Butuanon
by Father Joesilo Amalla

Lupa pinangga
Anak hong Subanganan,
Lagah mo Masawa
Sugah hong dagaha

Bansa nga maawok
Bwahanan hong kabuhot.
Ang mangangayaw
Dii gid makadagina.

Ang langit nga pughaw, panganod mo,
Kaboodan, kadagatan.
Hasta simag, kutob hong berso mo
Gatud-om hong kagawasan.

Ang bandera nga pigatokay
Silaw hong kadaugan.
Ang mga bituon hasta sugah
Dii gid magsimagkadlom.

Pudo hong kalipay, hong mga mimpakabaya
Kayumo namo, paggiba mo.
Ang himaya hong kabontanakan
Kahatlokan, dii kabugaan.

Kinaray-a
by Jose Palu-ay Dacudao, Ma. Eillen Grace Palu-ay, Ma. Corazon Palu-ay

Banwang pinalangga,
Anak kang adlaw sa sidlangan,
Kalayong gadaba-daba,
Buhi sa imong dughan.

Banwa kang gugma,
Duyan ka baganihan,
Sa manarakay
Bukon gid magpalapak.

Sa langit mong bughaw,
Panganod, bukid, kag kadagatan,
Nagasaot nagatunog ang binalaybay
Kang hinigugmang kahilwayan.

Bandera mo, lupang halanduman,
Gasiga it kadarag-an.
Bukon gid magdurom ang sirak kang
Bituon na kag adlaw.

Kapuruan kang gugma, adlaw, kag kalipay
Katam-is gid magpuyo sa sabak mo.
Among himaya ihalad, kun lupigan kaw,
Amon kabuhi, mga anak nimo.

Waray-Waray
by Simon Riel

Tuna han higugma
Perlas han sidlanganan
An adlaw alpanan
Han iya katahum.

Minahal nga tuna
Puyot han kabantugan
Di lulupigan
Magpasipara ha im.

Ha imo langit kabukiran
Ngan ha dagat sugad man
Hayag han buhi kasidayan
Han katalwas nga minahal.

An matahom nga im bandera
Hin kapawa nga gayod
Ha pag-awayan panlimpasog
Nga diri magdudulom.

Tuna han lipay lamrag ngan gugma
Say kapuy-anan matam-is ungod.
Ngan halad namon an kinabuhi
Kun pasipad-an an imo dungog.

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

^^ The great question....is it really Lapu-Lapu or is it Kalipulaku/Caliph Pulaku? It reminds me of VS101 (Visayan Studies 101) subject back at UP... :lol:


yeah, questions you can't find answers in typical philippine history books...too sad!:ohno:
so i guess i'll have to find my answers here...:) was tiyo lapu-lapu belong to a royal family? do he have siblings? do he had wives? do he had many children? do he have ancestors until this point? what happen to him by the time he killed magellan? what was the cause of his death? thanks

oops, sorry but just a curious cebuano...:lol::lol:

[habagatcentral1]

^^ I heard that some prominent families in Cebu are claiming ancestry from Rajah Tupas-Rajah Humabon lineage...I dunno about Lapu-Lapu...basin si Radaza pod, heheheh!!! :D

[Mercato]

@ mwg, we agree on only very few issues still. Muajajaja. Hmmm, maybe i should bring back your stalker and reincarnate him somehow. :nocrook::jk:
Btw, with 7" we certainly don't need viagra. Hah!! :lol:
AGAIN, there is NO LAW BANNING the use of other regional languages in the Philippines AT HOME, THE STREET TO YOUR FRIENDS AND MOSTLY, THE CITY YOU ARE IN. Yes, this line of reasoning is all too familiar. No, there is no law on bans albeit there is considerable pressure on most fronts leading toward its non usage. Like in the old Linggo ng Wika, I lost a lot of money paying fines for speaking in my own wika, the irony of it all. Wink wink wink... :|

Howbeit the full promotion of Cebuano will largely depend on the collective efforts of our legislators in congress, hopefully with the backing of the public.

Have you heard of this wonderful American invention called the First Amendment? Freedom of speech and free expression. Pls allow me to paraphrase someone in light of your new President. "I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed
.
.
.

"Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!" :wave:
If you know someone who can transform me into a real white man, other than Vicky Belo, who is very expensive, let me know so I don't have to be filipino anymore when I look at myself in the mirror. Pero, wag na rin, sayang ang pagka guapo ko, ughhhhhhhhhhh puke puke...LMAO. Buajajaja! Vicky Belo??? She isn’t even a certified dermatologist or even a plastic surgeon, though she may employ some unknown specialists in those 2 fields. All it takes is slick advertising and movie celebs to appear as someone you are not. Any doctor knows that. :lol:

:hilarious Jajaja Guapo??? Where? The only time I see guapo is when I look at the mirror and say, Oh God, you devastatingly handsome devil you... :angel:

Now don’t say bad words (in red) twice!! remember there might be kids reading this. :lol::lol:

[habagatcentral1]

Btw, with 7" we certainly don't need viagra. Hah!! :lol:
Yes, this line of reasoning is all too familiar. No, there is no law on bans albeit there is considerable pressure on most fronts leading toward its non usage. Like in the old Linggo ng Wika, I lost a lot of money paying fines for speaking in my own wika, the irony of it all. Wink wink wink... :|

What more pa sa amua diri...since Tagalog is well associated with Filipino...we need to speak English like a conyo does...:lol: :lol: Ah...the spoils of high school! :lol:

[habagatcentral1]

Hiligaynon
by Galiza, Hosillos, Montano, Mulato, and Pamonag

Banwang masinadyahon,
Perlas sang nasidlangan,
Init sang tigpusuon,
Gakabuhi sa imo nga dughan.

Banwang guinhalaran,
Payag ka sang maisog,
Sa mga manugpigos,
Wala guid nagapadaog.

Sa dagat kag bukid,
Sa usbong kag sa dagway nga gabanaag,
May idlak kag tibok ang dilambong,
Kag amba sang kahilwayan.

Ang idlak sang ayahay mo,
Isa ka matam-is nga kadalag-an,
Ang bituon kag ang adlaw mo,
Nangin masanag sa katubtuban.

Dutang nasambit sang adlaw kag paghigugma,
Sa sabak mo matam-is ang mabuhi,
Ginapakipagbato namon, nga kung may manugpanakop,
Ang mapatay nahanungod sa imo.

Aklanon
by Melchor F. Cichon

Banwang haeangdon
Onga't Adlaw nga Oriente.
Sa imong dughan
Ro kaeayo gadabdab.

Banwa it gugma;
Duyan it baganihan.
Ro mga sumaeakay
Indi makaeapak.

Sa asul nga eangit, sa agahon
Sa bukid, sa eawod,
Ring binaeaybay gasiga,
Sa mahae nga kahilwayan.

Ro kasiga king bandera
Gatao't pwersa sa kadaeag-an.
Maski hin-uno ring bituon, ring adlaw
Owa't pagkapaeong.

Eugta't kalipayan, eugta it pagmahae.
Sa imong sabak himaya ro pangabuhi.
Gloria para kamon nga maghaead it dugo
Kon kimo may magsipaea.


Kinaray-a
by Jose Palu-ay Dacudao, Ma. Eillen Grace Palu-ay, Ma. Corazon Palu-ay

Banwang pinalangga,
Anak kang adlaw sa sidlangan,
Kalayong gadaba-daba,
Buhi sa imong dughan.

Banwa kang gugma,
Duyan ka baganihan,
Sa manarakay
Bukon gid magpalapak.

Sa langit mong bughaw,
Panganod, bukid, kag kadagatan,
Nagasaot nagatunog ang binalaybay
Kang hinigugmang kahilwayan.

Bandera mo, lupang halanduman,
Gasiga it kadarag-an.
Bukon gid magdurom ang sirak kang
Bituon na kag adlaw.

Kapuruan kang gugma, adlaw, kag kalipay
Katam-is gid magpuyo sa sabak mo.
Among himaya ihalad, kun lupigan kaw,
Amon kabuhi, mga anak nimo.



Thanks for the translations...(Hala si Sir Cichon, ang dakilang librarian namo sa university...ahay)...I haven't heard of any activity even if it involves us singing the Hiligaynon version of so-called "Bayang Magiliw" (:lol:) a este "Lupang Hinirang" gali...:D

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

^^ I heard that some prominent families in Cebu are claiming ancestry from Rajah Tupas-Rajah Humabon lineage...I dunno about Lapu-Lapu...basin si Radaza pod, heheheh!!! :D

well i also heard about that but basically, i want to know more about tiyo lapu-lapu because this man is considered by historians as the first filipino defender against foreign rule... its fitting also to note about this man's tale just like jose rizal has been very much exalted in this country... IMO, it's not enough that we only knew this man as the first hero, its important we also need to study his life...:cheers:

[Sleepwalker]

Kasagaran binuang atong panahon sa bayad bayad og fines kay:

Oh no, those trees..pronounced as uno, dos, tres...

Ten dog in town die...pronounced as tindog intawon day...

D.I.E.T....pronounced as diay iti (chicken dung)...

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

Thanks for the translations...(Hala si Sir Cichon, ang dakilang librarian namo sa university...ahay)...I haven't heard of any activity even if it involves us singing the Hiligaynon version of so-called "Bayang Magiliw" (:lol:) a este "Lupang Hinirang" gali...:D

no problem bro...basta ikaw, even though wa pa ta nagmeet...:lol::lol:

[Mercato]

we need to speak English like a conyo does...:lol: :lol: :lol: I took a peek at that thread... Aww gawd, I can't stand to be there for even a minute. They're sooo irritating, IMHO. :lol::lol:

[habagatcentral1]

^^ Sineryoso mo naman...:lol: But anyway, its part of pop culture...Bisan diha sa Cebu wui, naa diha nga Sinebuano nga sige'g sagol sa English nga with sosyal intonation pa...prevalent sa girls. :lol:

Ang sa bayot, lain na pod na. :D

[habagatcentral1]

well i also heard about that but basically, i want to know more about tiyo lapu-lapu because this man is considered by historians as the first filipino defender against foreign rule... its fitting also to note about this man's tale just like jose rizal has been very much exalted in this country... IMO, it's not enough that we only knew this man as the first hero, its important we also need to study his life...:cheers:
Unfortunate though that much of our pre-Hispanic history is like "pre-historic" in some aspects...sometimes we have to base history through folklore.

I remember the joke from old Pinoy movies:
"Kung si LapuLapu ang pumatay kay Magellan, sino naman ang pumatay kay LapuLapu?"

The joke makes sense to local and Philippine national historiography. What happened to LapuLapu after the encounter? I haven't heard of anything from Urdaneta-Legaspi accounts. Something that historians and anthropologists investigate.

[Sleepwalker]

Like this?

Girl 1: "Where na you?"
Girl 2: "Here na me"
Girl 1: "Where dapit?"

[habagatcentral1]

^^ The influence of "me na me" text language.

[Mercato]

Kasagaran binuang atong panahon sa bayad bayad og fines kay:

Oh no, those trees..pronounced as uno, dos, tres...

Ten dog in town die...pronounced as tindog intawon day...

D.I.E.T....pronounced as diay iti (chicken dung)...:rofl::rofl:

[Animo]

^^ The great question....is it really Lapu-Lapu or is it Kalipulaku/Caliph Pulaku? It reminds me of VS101 (Visayan Studies 101) subject back at UP... :lol:

You forgot Kaliph Pulaka. ;) KALI come from CALI, an Arabic name for something like a "military tax collector" we are told. PULAKO is therefore the real name of the individual. Wasn't he considered as a bandido or pirata by the other native rulers in the area?

[Mercato]

^^ Sineryoso mo naman...:lol: But anyway, its part of pop culture...Bisan diha sa Cebu wui, naa diha nga Sinebuano nga sige'g sagol sa English nga with sosyal intonation pa...prevalent sa girls. :lol:

Ang sa bayot, lain na pod na. :D
Ce: Sagdi lang nang girls, ilabi na kon guapa kay angayan man.
En: Girls are easily forgiven :)

Ce: wa'ay caso tingali sa bayot, basta di lang manglupad ang kamot bisan asa
En: Its ok for gays. As long as they're not the too loud types and their hands are not flying all over the place. :lol:

[habagatcentral1]

^^ :rofl:

Pero by the way, nganu man sikata ang mga bayot sa mga kantang Binisaya...especially sa "Bisrock?"

[Sleepwalker]

^^ :rofl:

Pero by the way, nganu man sikata ang mga bayot sa mga kantang Binisaya...especially sa "Bisrock?"

No offense sa mga bayot ha.

Basin tungod lang kay amusing kaayo ang mga bayot...Makabuhat og monologue, maka-sulti maski unsa... :)

Overheard from a gay:

"Kung La Ninya, bayot pasinganlan...Kung El Ninyo, bayot pasinganlan...Unsa man ming mga bayot, gamhanan?!!!"

[le Reine]

Uhm, what is the topic of this thread again?

[Sleepwalker]

Visayan RB's... :)

[le Reine]

That's not what I see in the title.

[Sleepwalker]

Well, sometimes we also talk about the evolution of the Visayan RB's language...From common Bisaya to RB Bisaya... :)

[habagatcentral1]

My question was to no offense to anyone...because in the pop culture of Cebu (or Bisaya in general), topics about gays and lesbians seem to dominate Bisrock songs.

I was only to ask why is it very famous for the Visayan composers of "Bisrock" using gay topics and such? Other than that is more of love and compassion, which is evident of the older Cebuano songs. Also other than that is the topic of happiness and fun.

If the Jesuit priest Alcina is indeed true in his definition that the etymology of the term "Visaya" also means "happy people" or "fun-loving people," then I think it is manifested in the language and literature.

[icarusrising]

I genuinely seek enlightenment on this matter... When did Bisaya come to be equated with Cebuano language? How about the people, does being referred to as "Bisaya" mean being of or from Cebu? I have always thought that I am "Bisaya" but since I am not from Cebu nor do I speak Cebuano, I have second thoughts now about introducing myself as "Bisaya"...

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

Ce: Sagdi lang nang girls, ilabi na kon guapa kay angayan man.
En: Girls are easily forgiven :)

Ce: wa'ay caso tingali sa bayot, basta di lang manglupad ang kamot bisan asa
En: Its ok for gays. As long as they're not the too loud types and their hands are not flying all over the place. :lol:

kasikat gud sa mga bayot gihisgutan man diri...:lol::lol::lol:

basin masamot na sila kaproud sa ilang mga kaliwat! :lol::lol::lol:


I was only to ask why is it very famous for the Visayan composers of "Bisrock" using gay topics and such?

bai tell me more about it...like my head is not working now.:lol::lol:

[Wind Shear]

I genuinely seek enlightenment on this matter... When did Bisaya come to be equated with Cebuano language? How about the people, does being referred to as "Bisaya" mean being of or from Cebu? I have always thought that I am "Bisaya" but since I am not from Cebu nor do I speak Cebuano, I have second thoughts now about introducing myself as "Bisaya"...

If you are referring "Bisaya" as people, you are referring to a group of people in Visayas and Mindanao who speaks Visayan languages.

Actually, we are requesting requested to the moderator to change the title to Cebuano Language Thread since there are also Hiligaynon Language Thread and Waray-Waray Language Thread (which are both Visayan languages, mga pinulungan nga Binisaya) but apparently no moderator take the action.

When I introduced to a group, I say "I'm from Iligan and speak Cebuano" rather than saying "I'm from Iligan and speak Visayan".

[Sleepwalker]

I genuinely seek enlightenment on this matter... When did Bisaya come to be equated with Cebuano language? How about the people, does being referred to as "Bisaya" mean being of or from Cebu? I have always thought that I am "Bisaya" but since I am not from Cebu nor do I speak Cebuano, I have second thoughts now about introducing myself as "Bisaya"...


Bisaya has never been equated to Cebuano...Maybe, it just so happen that in this forum or outside of this forum, there are more Cebuanos talking so much about the Bisaya and it's position in the Philippines as a language and the usage of Bisaya and Cebuano terms becomes somewhat interchangeable.But we do recognize that Cebuano is just one of the three major languages under the Bisaya group.

Except @habagatcentral, @bukid and @mwg, most of the forumers here in Bisaya Language thread are native Cebuano speakers.

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

I genuinely seek enlightenment on this matter... When did Bisaya come to be equated with Cebuano language? How about the people, does being referred to as "Bisaya" mean being of or from Cebu? I have always thought that I am "Bisaya" but since I am not from Cebu nor do I speak Cebuano, I have second thoughts now about introducing myself as "Bisaya"...


hindi ko talaga alam... I don't know why its that so but IMO, other people tend to associate cebuano as "only" bisaya but honestly its not. maybe its time that all filipinos will be SSCers so that all misconceptions will be cleared. :cheers: To be visayan/bisaya, you should speak either Cebuano, Ilonggo, Waray-Waray languages and its corresponding dialects.

Actually, we are requesting requested to the moderator to change the title to Cebuano Language Thread since there are also Hiligaynon Language Thread and Waray-Waray Language Thread (which are both Visayan languages, mga pinulungan nga Binisaya) but apparently no moderator take the action.

right... to lessen confusion to others...right Mods, please heed our pleas..:cheers::angel::angel:

[Wind Shear]

hindi ko talaga alam... I don't know why its that so but IMO, other people tend to associate cebuano as "only" bisaya but honestly its not. maybe its time that all filipinos will be SSCers so that all misconceptions will be cleared. :cheers: To be visayan/bisaya, you should speak either Cebuano, Ilonggo, Waray-Waray languages and its corresponding dialects.


Yeah. It's about time to tell the world that Bisaya is not a language. It's a group of languages.


right... too lessen confusion to others...right Mods, please heed our pleas..:cheers::angel::angel:

The title of the thread is now changed! Whoever done this, thanks!

[Sleepwalker]

Yeah. It's about time to tell the world that Bisaya is not a language. It's a group of languages.



The title of the thread is now changed! Whoever done this, thanks!

Hay, salamat...At least Cebuano na gud tawon ang thread title...At least, kung mag-cause man gani ta og "trouble", dili madamay ang uban Bisaya nga group...Akong gi-quote lang ang word nga "trouble" ha, kay naa man gud usahay magka-lalis lalis ta dinhi, unya para sa uban, dili na maayo... :)

So, mga bai, ato ipadayon sa pagpa-uswag ang atong lumad nga pinulongan.

[icarusrising]

@ Windshear, Sleepwalker and Mainstreamhunter. Thanks for making time to answer my question.

[Sleepwalker]

No problem @icarus.... :)

[Ang_Bantayanon]

Bitaw, distinctions must be made. Visayan people are Bisaya but when it comes to language, we are diverse.

Salamat sa mod nga nipabalik sa ngalan ning hilo isip Cebuano Language Thread.

[Wind Shear]

@icarus_rising: Walay sapayan! (Cebuano phrase for Welcome!)

@Sleepwalker: Lagi, luoy man sad ang ubang grupong Binisaya bisan walay labot sa atong kakulian. Naa ra bay dili mopalupig hilabi na si toot. :D Kaw nalang mokaplag kon kinsa siya. :D

[Sleepwalker]

@icarus_rising: Walay sapayan! (Cebuano phrase for Welcome!)

@Sleepwalker: Lagi, luoy man sad ang ubang grupong Binisaya bisan walay labot sa atong kakulian. Naa ra bay dili mopalupig hilabi na si toot. :D Kaw nalang mokaplag kon kinsa siya. :D

Sige lang bai...Padayon lang ta sa atong paningkamot...Basin diay og naa mga opisyal nga makabasa dinhi sa SSC.

Makasabot ra ko nga medyo kusog gud ta kaayo sa atong pagpaningkamot nga ma-ugmad (cultivate) gud ni og maayo ang atong kaugalingon nga pinulongan ug kultura.

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

^^
and also, we are not just helping ourselves preserve and enrich our own language and culture but also to those languages na wala pud mataga-i ug pagtagad na mulambo ug mahatagan ug importansya ang ilang mga tagsa-tagsang cultura ug pinulungan.

@icarus-rising... no problems bai, ikaw pa! :cheers:

[ivanc]

bai, wa ko kasabot gamay.. bawal ang bisya nga national anthem??

[MatudNilaBaby]

Let me ask you this? If you are for instance a tagalog or kapangpangan or Ilokano that happens to be assign or even visited Cebu for the first time, do you expect yourself to learn Cebuano language right away? isn't that a little bit stupid?

Yes, definitely, tagalog is not the mother tongue of the cebuanos, but you cant' deny that they hear tagalog over the years in TV, movies or radio with the exception of your own local radio and TV programs. I don't think that is imposition of the tagalog language to YOU AS A CEBUANO. It would be just a comon courtesy as a host citizen of your city to welcome visitor. You do speak english to foreigners right? Why don't you tell them to speak in your language when they talk to you as they are imposing to you a language not native to your City, much less your home or any cebuano in general... I'm sure there are alot of Cebuanos speaks english but how many are those who really speak at home in pure english and not Cebuano. English is not your mother tongue because it is not what you and your ancestors originally spoke to themselves therefore the english language is also being imposed to you.WHY IS IT MORE ACCEPTABLE? IT BOILS DOWN TO ONE THING. "COLONIAL MENTALITY. Infatuation of something connected to white race much like the spaniards.... I have nothing against them but I was just pointing the fact that why is it that english is acceptable but not tagalog or any filipino languages in the Philippines is the official language? Any language serves the same purpose anyway. COMMUINICATION AND UNDERSTANDING OF ONE ANOTHER and since we are all filipinos, same heritage, same colonizer. Why can't we accept what we have? I am willing to accept Bisaya as an official language, it does not change my maternal's spoken language and myself. I'd still be a tagalog, kapangpangan or Ilocano if I speak Bisaya to communicate with fellow filipinos. A language is needed to be picked as a national or official languge since there are more than 5 languages and dialects in the Philippines.


The thing is, tagalog considered the national language or perhaps an official language just to communicate with not just the tagalogs themselves but to the kapangpangan, ilocano, bilinao, maranao and so forth. It is not meant to extinguish any other regional languages in the Philippines since. AGAIN, there is NO LAW BANNING the use of other regional languages in the Philippines AT HOME, THE STREET TO YOUR FRIENDS AND MOSTLY, THE CITY YOU ARE IN.




These lines are lines of imposing onself on others....

The national language is not english, not everybody are well educated, even in Cebu, the poor people who are not priveledged with a much higher education like you and myself does not speak english and I have experienced asking a Cebuano out in the street who are that way. They atleast understood tagalogs but can't respond in tagalog but I understood them.

I definitely respond into a pure english in cebu if they responded in english, same goes with other filipinos and tagalogs , even on board a PAL flight with PAL flight attendants. The problem with the PAL flight attendants is that they would "F'ing" start to you and english and when you f'ing respond in pure english without batting your eyes, they would f'ing start talking to you in either tagalog or bisaya. What is up with that????

This is really what the biggest problem in the Philippines and this is not just for the Cebuanos, it's the whole filipinos in general (with exception of some of course) The colonial mentality amongst filipinos are so strong that whenever they see someone foreign, especially caucasian people. They are all willing to bend over backward just to please them, make them feel accomodated. They would immitate everything they do even the manner of speaking, the way they dress, hell there are even men in the Philippines that wears blue contact lenses and would bleach their skin to the whitest the can possibly get themselves. Heck, everybody in the Philippines are all afraid to get under the sun for the fear of getting darker it is just so f'ing unbelievable.

Sus, mau nang daghang bayot sa tibuok filipinas...LMAO

That's exactly where you are wrong tagalog advocate. The Cebuanos and many Bisayan speaking regions dont regard Tagalog as the national language. It is just one of the Philippine dialect thats has been promoted by the marcos dictatorship era. We Cebuanos regard English as the national language which is the medium of instruction in our schools since elementary grades. Hindi tulad ninyo diyan sa maynila na makakuha kayo nang college degree without speaking english. Parang natural sa mga cebuanos na mag speak english if we understand that the person we're talking to are not from cebu or bisaya and cant speak cebuano.

The bottomline is for the Cebuanos and other Bisaya speaking regions: our national language is English, our national or official language is cebuano or bisaya and our alternate languages are Tagalog, Ilocano, Kapangpangan, Chinese or Arabic for ppl in mindanao.

I am speaking from a southern perspective and you are espousing the northern perspective of what language to use for the whole country. There is always a clash or disagreement between Cebuanos and Tagalogs when language becomes an issue.

[MatudNilaBaby]

I genuinely seek enlightenment on this matter... When did Bisaya come to be equated with Cebuano language? How about the people, does being referred to as "Bisaya" mean being of or from Cebu? I have always thought that I am "Bisaya" but since I am not from Cebu nor do I speak Cebuano, I have second thoughts now about introducing myself as "Bisaya"...

The Cebuano language is the more predominant language among the Bisayan languages of Hiligaynon and Waray Waray.Parang ang root nang Ilongo or waray waray comes from the cebuano language. I can pick up words from ilonggo or hiligaynon and waray waray that are similar in sounds with a little twist in the bowel or consonant spelling.

If im not mistaken, there are more speakers of the cebuano language as listed in the world almanac, and comparable in number with Tagalog speaking regions. As somebody had mentioned here, that there are also variations of the cebuano language that is the cebuano/bol-anon, cebuano/surigaonon, cebuano/leyte, cebuano/masbate, cebuano/dumagetenue/negros oriental and other cebuano speaking regions in mindanao like misamiz, cotabato, bukidnon, davao even zamboanga except for zamboanga city which is chavacano/bisaya mix. i heard the southern tip of luzon island being closer to the visayan region speaks a mix of bisaya and their native language

[Sleepwalker]

That's exactly where you are wrong tagalog advocate. The Cebuanos and many Bisayan speaking regions dont regard Tagalog as the national language. It is just one of the Philippine dialect thats has been promoted by the marcos dictatorship era. We Cebuanos regard English as the national language which is the medium of instruction in our schools since elementary grades. Hindi tulad ninyo diyan sa maynila na makakuha kayo nang college degree without speaking english. Parang natural sa mga cebuanos na mag speak english if we understand that the person we're talking to are not from cebu or bisaya and cant speak cebuano.

The bottomline is for the Cebuanos and other Bisaya speaking regions: our national language is English, our national or official language is cebuano or bisaya and our alternate languages are Tagalog, Ilocano, Kapangpangan, Chinese or Arabic for ppl in mindanao.

I am speaking from a southern perspective and you are espousing the northern perspective of what language to use for the whole country. There is always a clash or disagreement between Cebuanos and Tagalogs when language becomes an issue.


The Cebuano language is the more predominant language among the Bisayan languages of Hiligaynon and Waray Waray.Parang ang root nang Ilongo or waray waray comes from the cebuano language. I can pick up words from ilonggo or hiligaynon and waray waray that are similar in sounds with a little twist in the bowel or consonant spelling.

If im not mistaken, there are more speakers of the cebuano language as listed in the world almanac, and comparable in number with Tagalog speaking regions. As somebody had mentioned here, that there are also variations of the cebuano language that is the cebuano/bol-anon, cebuano/surigaonon, cebuano/leyte, cebuano/masbate, cebuano/dumagetenue/negros oriental and other cebuano speaking regions in mindanao like misamiz, cotabato, bukidnon, davao even zamboanga except for zamboanga city which is chavacano/bisaya mix. i heard the southern tip of luzon island being closer to the visayan region speaks a mix of bisaya and their native language

Bai, i think we need some factual basis on this one...Sorry to interrupt ha, but the highlighted claim might need more than just personal observation.

I hope you won't misunderstand me as minding your business or naghari-hari ko, pero let's have a discussion here that is more or less dili kaayo daghan og friction.

I do understand our sentiments with how our national government treated the other regions including us, but careful lang pud ta sa atong gipanulti.

Pasensya na, Bai...Hinaot nga dili ni nimo ikasuko...Kung masuko man gani ka sa akoa, OK ra pud... :)

Peace... :)

[ferny123]

sus ang mga pinoy jd kay cge lng away. hasta ang language gi awayan pajd. why not just accept and respect each others differences. heheh i think filipinos dont think themselves as filipinos but as cebuanos, tagalogs, warays, etc.

mayta di nato i waste atong time in arguing. we must use the time time to build a better philippines kay kng gibuhat pa na sa tanang taw sa pilippinas karun kay ok man kaau ni ang pilipinas ba. hahah

<<u cannot see a tree by looking at a single leaf>>

[MatudNilaBaby]

Bai, i think we need some factual basis on this one...Sorry to interrupt ha, but the highlighted claim might need more than just personal observation.

I hope you won't misunderstand me as minding your business or naghari-hari ko, pero let's have a discussion here that is more or less dili kaayo daghan og friction.

I do understand our sentiments with how our national government treated the other regions including us, but careful lang pud ta sa atong gipanulti.

Pasensya na, Bai...Hinaot nga dili ni nimo ikasuko...Kung masuko man gani ka sa akoa, OK ra pud... :)

Peace... :)

I have no problem with it if im corrected. But the reason why these languages are grouped as Bisayan its because of their similarity in sounds and its close proximity to each other.

[Sleepwalker]

I have no problem with it if im corrected. But the reason why these languages are grouped as Bisayan its because of their similarity in sounds and its close proximity to each other.

Salamat sa imong pagsabot bai...Ako willing ko mobangga og tagawog, pero kung taga Visayas ug Mindanao gani, di ko mosukol kay mga igsoon ra na nato... :)

[MatudNilaBaby]

sus ang mga pinoy jd kay cge lng away. hasta ang language gi awayan pajd. why not just accept and respect each others differences. heheh i think filipinos dont think themselves as filipinos but as cebuanos, tagalogs, warays, etc.

mayta di nato i waste atong time in arguing. we must use the time time to build a better philippines kay kng gibuhat pa na sa tanang taw sa pilippinas karun kay ok man kaau ni ang pilipinas ba. hahah

<<u cannot see a tree by looking at a single leaf>>

there's no doubt about it ferny that we are all filipinos. united we stand divided we fall! but there are pinoys in the cebuano thread that insist on Cebuanos speaking Tagalog. The position of the Cebuanos must be heard or else you'll be bound to follow what people from north dictates the south. Salamat

[jakejik]

wa ko kahibaw if na post na bani

-oBwM6FlvgQ
Christian Brothers High School Choir (Sacramento, California)


25o68i6KPE4
Rosas Pandan Moonlit Addition


crYhdBl8EV4
John P. Stevens High School Choir (Edison, New Jersey)


shui5ydDpZM
A South Korean High School performance

[Sleepwalker]

Question:

Nabati kaha ni sa uban dinhi ang atong mga sentimento? Or nigawas nga mga rebelde ta?

Aduna kaha pamaagi nga atong ma-ipaabot ang atong ganahan nga ipaabot nga wala ra kaayo friction?

Basin kini, pwede ni nato mahisgot-hisgotan dinhi.... :)

Pero magtagay sa ta og Pula'ng Kabayo...:cheers:

[Wind Shear]

HOLY [censored]! I never thought that the Classic Cebuano song is very popular in chorale worldwide!

[habagatcentral1]

The Cebuano language is the more predominant language among the Bisayan languages of Hiligaynon and Waray Waray.Parang ang root nang Ilongo or waray waray comes from the cebuano language. I can pick up words from ilonggo or hiligaynon and waray waray that are similar in sounds with a little twist in the bowel or consonant spelling.

I have reservations on that highlighted statement of yours dude. Because for one, Hiligaynon evolved together with outside contacts and the interior people tongue known to us as Kinaray-a (and also Inati and Ligbuk). Although we do belong in one family of language (Austro-Polynesian group[?]) but nobody's claiming no one in where the roots of the Visayan languages does. The statement would surely raise some eyebrows on most Ilonggo social scientists. ;)

And mind you, although we on our part are proud people but we still acknowledge the national language of Filipino...all we have to do is to nurture it in our turfs....and we never feel threatened about "Tagalog hegemony." My ten pesos worth. :2cents:

Peace/Paghida-it/Kalinaw sa tanan! :nocrook: :)

[MatudNilaBaby]

Salamat sa imong pagsabot bai...Ako willing ko mobangga og tagawog, pero kung taga Visayas ug Mindanao gani, di ko mosukol kay mga igsoon ra na nato... :)

well ako diri sa akong trabahoan daghang mga tagalog or ilocano. kaming mga bisaya ug taga mindanao dili man mi makasugakod ug tinagalog maong mag iningles me. so a lot of our colleagues here who are not pinoy think that we are not filipino or we are born in the us kay we dont speak tagalog. so sa ilang pang libak sa mga tagalog/ilocano makahibalo gyud me kay ila man ming sultihan nga kusog kaayo sila magtayo tayo kana bang marcos style nga ato na ni bai which is unfair and discriminating sa uban. mao nay maot nga batasan sa pinoy diri mora ba ug gidala pagihapon nila karaan nilang pamatasan bisan ug iba na ang cultura diri.

i appreciate all your inputs because im learning a lot. so if somebody disagrees with me or i get corrected ok lang sa ako kay thats how we learn the real life world. Again thank you for reading my comments and im glad i found ssc while i was browsing for cebuano music.

and speaking of video music, i have uploaded a lot of rosas pandan choral international and local interpretations like the ones posted above. if you;re interested in hearing a matud nila sung by a well known japanese baritone its in youtube as well. love listening them all

[Mercato]

sus ang mga pinoy jd kay cge lng away. hasta ang language gi awayan pajd. why not just accept and respect each others differences. heheh i think filipinos dont think themselves as filipinos but as cebuanos, tagalogs, warays, etc.

mayta di nato i waste atong time in arguing. we must use the time time to build a better philippines kay kng gibuhat pa na sa tanang taw sa pilippinas karun kay ok man kaau ni ang pilipinas ba. hahah

<<u cannot see a tree by looking at a single leaf>>Well, my fine feathered friend. You are missing out on the point here. ‘Tis a pity you speak with flippant condescension on what you refer to as mere languages only. I suppose you are Cebuano but judging from how you write I chose to speak to you in straight English because you might not have the fortitude if I wrote to you in straight classical Cebuano.

This thread and some forumers here believe in the preservation, promotion and propagation of the Cebuano language. Some of our legislators are also working towards that end. Some activist groups like DILFED are also working towards that end. Is it a good objective? I bet you it is. If it is a good objective, can you explain to me why these good gentlemen are facing stiff opposition? It is not all a simple flippant “arguing just for the sake of silly argumentations” as you would sweepingly say.

There is no doubt that we should all live the “Kumbaya” peace to the world and goodwill to all men utopia... no doubt about that bit at all (accepting and respecting each other’s differences). Now howbeit our legislators working towards that end are facing very stiff opposition from some quarters?? If it were all that easy, why does sublime ridicule persist in Philippine media? And some quarters are actually dictating to us on how we must think? That we ought to accept all these hook, line and sinker?

Who is doing the respecting and who is not in these instances? It would be wise for you to digest all this and think, think real hard; on what your patrimony, your cultural heritage and your linguistic identity means to you.

[MatudNilaBaby]

wa ko kahibaw if na post na bani

-oBwM6FlvgQ
Christian Brothers High School Choir (Sacramento, California)


25o68i6KPE4
Rosas Pandan Moonlit Addition


crYhdBl8EV4
John P. Stevens High School Choir (Edison, New Jersey)


shui5ydDpZM
A South Korean High School performance

i like the interpretation from the San Francisco State Univeristy chorus
i think they go by SFSU Rosas Pandan at youtube and the lalala singers from austria. naa sab sa youtube ang uv choral on rosas pandan

[Mercato]

@jakejik,
Thank you very much for those vids. We have never seen them before. :)

@matudnilababy
bai, mahimo kaha kong mo-input sab og diyutay? Kining, nindut ra ba ka'g mga input sa ubang threads. Unya namatikdan pod nako nga daghan ka pa og ika-contribute diri. Apan unsaon ta man, daghan man sab mga makagagahom nga mamsa diri. Dili baya, wa'ay ti'aw bisan pag mangutana ka sa uban natong mga kaigsoonang bisaya. Mopahuway usa ta sa debate sa pagkakaron. Kay kon mohatag raba og warning ang mga makagagahom usahay ila ra ba jud nga tinud-on og ban. Relax lang sa ta ron unya inom na lang ta og tuba, pahayahay usa... salamat sa imong pagsabot bai :lol: :cheers:


Question:

Nabati kaha ni sa uban dinhi ang atong mga sentimento? Or nigawas nga mga rebelde ta?

Aduna kaha pamaagi nga atong ma-ipaabot ang atong ganahan nga ipaabot nga wala ra kaayo friction?

Basin kini, pwede ni nato mahisgot-hisgotan dinhi.... :)

Pero magtagay sa ta og Pula'ng Kabayo...:cheers: Mo lang, kay unsa may pagtuo nimo?? Maorag migawas nga mga rebeldeng contravida 'ta dri... :lol:

[MatudNilaBaby]

i like the interpretation from the San Francisco State Univeristy chorus
i think they go by SFSU Rosas Pandan at youtube and the lalala singers fro austria

be careful not to post the x rated version of rosas pandan titled tigidong tigidong tigidong with the hippo singing a tagalog version which is sick and disgusting. its about a woman talking about her body part in a lewd language.

[MatudNilaBaby]

@jakejik,
Thank you very much for those vids. We have never seen them before. :)

@matudnilababy
bai, mahimo kaha kong mo-input sab og diyutay? Kining, nindut ra ba ka'g mga input sa ubang threads. Unya namatikdan pod nako nga daghan ka pa og ika-contribute diri. Apan unsaon ta man, daghan man sab mga makagagahom nga mamsa diri. Dili baya, wa'ay ti'aw bisan pag mangutana ka sa uban natong mga kaigsoonang bisaya. Mopahuway usa ta sa debate sa pagkakaron. Kay kon mohatag raba og warning ang mga makagagahom usahay ila ra ba jud nga tinud-on og ban. Relax lang sa ta ron unya inom na lang ta og tuba, pahayahay usa... salamat sa imong pagsabot bai :lol: :cheers:


Mo lang, kay unsa may pagtuo nimo?? Maorag migawas nga mga rebeldeng contravida 'ta dri... :lol:


a very persistent english speaker nga bisaya sa senado is miriam defensor. wala gyud ko kadungog ana niya ng mo sulti ug tagalog bisan pa ug sometimes gahi kay ang iyang english accent but she is very articulate. i admire strong women like her.

[habagatcentral1]

a very persistent english speaker nga bisaya sa senado is miriam defensor. wala gyud ko kadungog ana niya ng mo sulti ug tagalog bisan pa ug sometimes gahi kay ang iyang english accent but she is very articulate. i admire strong women like her.
Because when she talks Tagalog...she has that familiar intonation. :D
But her English is consistent enough to make her revered, feared or hated...such strong woman of power and authority. :okay:

[from_antipolo]

maayo pag nakabisita ko dinhi kay nakabalo na ko kon kinsa ang mga bisaya sa ssc...

[Wind Shear]

Not only Rosas Pandan has the choral version. :-)

YAXt3RD2qPU

Sa Kabukiran. Performed by Octava Choral Society of MSU-Iligan Institute of Technology

QiOxPqaF6g8

Matud Nila. Performed by University of Visayas Chorale.

[Sleepwalker]

@jakejik,
Thank you very much for those vids. We have never seen them before. :)

@matudnilababy
bai, mahimo kaha kong mo-input sab og diyutay? Kining, nindut ra ba ka'g mga input sa ubang threads. Unya namatikdan pod nako nga daghan ka pa og ika-contribute diri. Apan unsaon ta man, daghan man sab mga makagagahom nga mamsa diri. Dili baya, wa'ay ti'aw bisan pag mangutana ka sa uban natong mga kaigsoonang bisaya. Mopahuway usa ta sa debate sa pagkakaron. Kay kon mohatag raba og warning ang mga makagagahom usahay ila ra ba jud nga tinud-on og ban. Relax lang sa ta ron unya inom na lang ta og tuba, pahayahay usa... salamat sa imong pagsabot bai :lol: :cheers:


Mo lang, kay unsa may pagtuo nimo?? Maorag migawas nga mga rebeldeng contravida 'ta dri... :lol:

Aw, ako, wala ko problema kung tawgon ko og rebelde...basta kahibalo ko sa akong rason ug punto...Hehehehe

Ang mga Sugbuanon, buotan man ta nga mga tawo, wa pa labot nga mga gwapo ta ug mga maharlika...Pero, collectively, medyo nagkatigom gud ta sa usa ka kawsa...Og mao kining kabahin sa liberalisasyon sa atong kaugalingong panghuna-huna ug pagdala sa atong kaugalingong kultura.

Sayang kaayo paminawon, nga usa unya sa atua dinhi mawala lang og kalit kay di na kasulod sa iskayiskripirsiti. Naglami na ra ba og maayo atong pagbinaylu-ay og mga hunahuna dinhi ug ang atong tagay sa tuba.

Mao lang na akong buot ipaabot... :)

Ingon pa ni Atty. Ruben Canoy:

Ang lungsod nga nagpakabana, mao'y makahatag sa iyang kagawasan.
Apan ang lungsod nga nagpasagad, mao'y makapukan niini.

[mwg12a]

That's exactly where you are wrong tagalog advocate. The Cebuanos and many Bisayan speaking regions dont regard Tagalog as the national language. It is just one of the Philippine dialect thats has been promoted by the marcos dictatorship era. We Cebuanos regard English as the national language which is the medium of instruction in our schools since elementary grades. Hindi tulad ninyo diyan sa maynila na makakuha kayo nang college degree without speaking english. Parang natural sa mga cebuanos na mag speak english if we understand that the person we're talking to are not from cebu or bisaya and cant speak cebuano.

The bottomline is for the Cebuanos and other Bisaya speaking regions: our national language is English, our national or official language is cebuano or bisaya and our alternate languages are Tagalog, Ilocano, Kapangpangan, Chinese or Arabic for ppl in mindanao.

I am speaking from a southern perspective and you are espousing the northern perspective of what language to use for the whole country. There is always a clash or disagreement between Cebuanos and Tagalogs when language becomes an issue.

Where did you get that idea that the people in Manila, they can't get a degree in college without being able to speak english?

Remember? the decline in the english language is national, not only in Manila???

Why do you think Habbaggat and icarus who both attended school in Manila speaks perfect english.

I am not advocating "tagalog" for a national language. I am for any Philippine language that is worthy of being considered as a national language.

You can't hide anything to me about Cebu because I constantly visit the area when I am in the Philippines. Why do you think I can speak and understand you guys when some of you speaks bisaya to me?

The Clash on the issue of national language only comes from you guys. I don't hear any tagalog complaining about it. I believe that there are alot of bisayans with the exception of some few who are overly opinionated, that's why whenever the filipinos who work in the same workplace especially overseas, there are conflict because one filipino would incite conflict. They would act as a leader that seemingly know it all but when trouble come quick they bail out and kisses the ass of their foreign boss to cover their own rear end to keep the job or perhaps use it to step up the laddder. I won't say which group of bisaya are doing that but there are.... I am not saying all but there is a certain groups.

The only thing a bisaya would really accuse a tagalog is that most tagalogs raise their eyebrows because speaking a foreign language not inherent to most filipinos are being "colonial mentality"

Don't brag to me about bisayas, it's not that there are not tagalog or other filipinos ever visited and lived in Cebu or anywhere in bisaya region.


And BTW, since you blamed it on the Marcos Era. Blame the Ilocano for the changes and the faith of he Cebuano language. Marcos is not a tagalog if you remember it from history, you guys never have any tagalog President in a long time with the exception of Erap. I am not sure if Erap is counted as president since he has very little contribution in his presidency and it was short lived.

[Mercato]

Aw, ako, wala ko problema kung tawgon ko og rebelde...basta kahibalo ko sa akong rason ug punto...Hehehehe

Ang mga Sugbuanon, buotan man ta nga mga tawo, wa pa labot nga mga gwapo ta ug mga maharlika...Pero, collectively, medyo nagkatigom gud ta sa usa ka kawsa...Og mao kining kabahin sa liberalisasyon sa atong kaugalingong panghuna-huna ug pagdala sa atong kaugalingong kultura.

Sayang kaayo paminawon, nga usa unya sa atua dinhi mawala lang og kalit kay di na kasulod sa iskayiskripirsiti. Naglami na ra ba og maayo atong pagbinaylu-ay og mga hunahuna dinhi ug ang atong tagay sa tuba.

Mao lang na akong buot ipaabot... :)

Ingon pa ni Atty. Ruben Canoy:

Ang lungsod nga nagpakabana, mao'y makahatag sa iyang kagawasan.
Apan ang lungsod nga nagpasagad, mao'y makapukan niini.
:lol: Aww kana hinuong pagkaguapo naturaleza na kaau na nato. Maghigop higop nya 'ta'g kape puhon didto sa Bo's Coffee, bai. Mahimuot ko kay nahinumdom ko sa kaniadtong unang panahon sa Cebuano Thread 1. Nahatagan sab ko og inpraksyun unya riprimand guikan sa iskayskripirsiti tungod kay akong giyaga-yagaan ang mga nagmugna sa linguistic policy sa constitution, lakip na tong istudianteng (dili ingon nato) nagpost dri - lakip iyang maestro og eskuylahan,... apan hagbay na to. :lol: :lol:

[mwg12a]

hindi ko talaga alam... I don't know why its that so but IMO, other people tend to associate cebuano as "only" bisaya but honestly its not. maybe its time that all filipinos will be SSCers so that all misconceptions will be cleared. :cheers: To be visayan/bisaya, you should speak either Cebuano, Ilonggo, Waray-Waray languages and its corresponding dialects.



right... to lessen confusion to others...right Mods, please heed our pleas..:cheers::angel::angel:

I don't think there is a total misconception that bout cebu as a bisaya, many filipinos knows the difference and the geography in the Philippines, icarus and habbaggat can attest to that. They have lived in Manila.

See? I think your hatred towards the tagalogs and equating Manila as the sole seat of tagalog people, you keep on forgetting that other promdis being portrayed by the media are tagalog from batangas who is alse being affected when you bash the tagalog people and they have not said anything against the bisaya, maybe the snotty Manilenos but manila isn't all tagalog even if the medium of most communication there is tagalog, there are alot of inglesoro -inglesera there where the masa were prowning upon and rasing their eyebrows. There is the problem there on your part, you haven't really lived in Manila and your opinions are only based on one or two experiences and the recounts of some few. Unlike Icarus and Habaggat, they have lived in Manila, has been in Cebu nd Davao so they see both sides of the story, Much like how I have been now since I have been both in Manila and Cebu and actually experienced the life in Cebu. When I am in Cebu, I am totally surrounded by Cebuanos so I know better. But people like you never affected my opinion about Cebu. I still like Cebu and would continue to be there whenever I can...

[mwg12a]

Bai, i think we need some factual basis on this one...Sorry to interrupt ha, but the highlighted claim might need more than just personal observation.

I hope you won't misunderstand me as minding your business or naghari-hari ko, pero let's have a discussion here that is more or less dili kaayo daghan og friction.

I do understand our sentiments with how our national government treated the other regions including us, but careful lang pud ta sa atong gipanulti.

Pasensya na, Bai...Hinaot nga dili ni nimo ikasuko...Kung masuko man gani ka sa akoa, OK ra pud... :)

Peace... :)

Thank you for trying to enlighten our fellow filipino and your fellow Cebuano about these one.

Honestly, I see more cebuanos here that are more level minded, they do have clamor to gain equal recognition in language as with the tagalog, and that is really commendable.

I don't know why Matudnila have so much hatred in his heart to the point that he would even blink an eye to pass a racial comment towards a tagalog more especifically. I understand his pride, I understand the humbleness and humility of the Cebuanos have towards their city but, do we have to step on somebody else just to elevate ourselves into a pedestal where we all wanted to be?

I am not advocating anything else other than any of our native languages to be preserved and to play a big role in our cultural heritage as we tackle the future as we evolve into a whole new era. This is where matudnila is misinterpreting what I have been saying all these while. I am for the preservation of all the Philippine languages because I feel that if we don't do anything about it, some of it will die, perhaps from the tagalog but I believe with the english language, can easily extinguish the life of our native tongues. It might be good at a point but I'm pretty sure somewhere in the whole process, there would be those who would back and start asking why we killed our own languages by using one single language alone. I know the english language is not being spoused here but somehow it's been discussed or mentioned.

[Mercato]

The Clash on the issue of national language only comes from you guys. I don't hear any tagalog complaining about it. I believe that there are alot of bisayans with the exception of some few who are overly opinionated, Naturalmente, what's there to complain about if you're the one in power? - & this from the cultural and linguistic point of view. :| :colgate:

[mwg12a]

I don't think the tagalogs are in POWER. Manila is in Power and we all know that The Manila government is composed of all filipinos from all different region. I don't think Arroyo is tagalog herself (a Kapangpangan), down to Marcos themselves with the exception of the former president Estrada. Blame the ilocano who is Marcos for changing the laws in the Philippines.

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

Naturalmente, what's there to complain about if you're the one in power? - & this from the cultural and linguistic point of view. :| :colgate:

yeah just so others would know that not everyone loves tagalog...

@mwg12a, I have been to manila but not staying for too long. as what I've said in my previous posts, whenever I go there, I usually don't initiate conversations, I only speak whenever i hear a cebuano speaking but it doesn't mean that I am an unfriendly being. and sorry for being harsh to "all" tagalogs, what I really mean to refer is tagalogs specifically in Manila.:cheers:

[mwg12a]

Like I said, the faith of the cebuano language was brought about the government and since you mentioned Marcos, you can blame the Ilocano for putting the tagalog language in the pedestal. I don't know why? Marcos hardly speak tagalog as far as I can remember, he speaks mostly english on his speeches if I can remember it back or even from documetaries I've seen. His wife is a waray bisaya.. I do not know why she didn't influence Ferdinand Marcos to promote bisaya since she was from the same region as you guys...

And to add to all these, you don't really have to love a language. You can speak it without loving it. Ofcourse your biases would be with your native tongue, ones that you are using at home and with your friends. When I am in Cebu, I would initiate conversation and would try my best to speak to them in their language since I understand that alot of you guys are not comfortable in tagalog but atleast I know when I said something in tagalog, you understand it and when you respond to me in bisaya, I would make sure to tell you or let you know I understood it real well. That is just how you respect one another.

[Sleepwalker]

Wasn't it Manuel L. Quezon who promoted Tagalog as the national language?

@mwg, i understand that you are for a united Philippines...A Philippines where all of regional boundaries do not exist...We are with you on that...We also dream of one Philippines, but sad to say, that the rules that supposed to be uniting us as one is the same rules that put lines between regions.

Why would Cebu veer away from being united? Why would Cebuano choose to be different and challenge Manila? And Cebu has been challenging Manila already, long long time ago.

Cebuanos' dislike to the Tagalog language is just the tip of the iceberg...As I always stated before, this conflict between Manila and Cebu has deeper reasons other than the language.

Another question is, can we, being the new generation, put an end to this age old Manila-Cebu conflict? My answer would be a big NO....As long as Manila remains imperial...as long as the government don't put equality between regions, this conflict would never end, as we would always fight for what we think is our right in this land of "freedom".

Generally, I don't think we are bashing the Manilogs (Manila Tagalogs) here, of course except for some comments from the newbies who comes in hot.

All of us here in SSC know or have some idea about this conflict...That Manila and Cebu is just like fire and ice...Yin and Yang...Some might ask, "why live on the past?"...If our government is still the same as it was in the past, FYI, we are still living in the past...If we want to move on and leave behind the past, then we need to change the way our laws dictates us what to do.

For other SSCers or other ethnic groups, Cebuanos may sound annoying, stubborn or rebellious because of our cause, but mind you, if this country is really "free", then we believe, looking for equality is not wrong.

Then, maybe SSC is not the right place for this? We partly believe that we are indeed barking in the wrong place, but we still need to answer questions that are raised by some forumers. And so there goes tha exchange of ideas...Friction adds more flavor to this discussion.

@Mercato, way blema na..higop higop unya ta og kape...pwede sad tagay og Pula'ng Kabayo. Do you like to come with us @mwg?

[Wind Shear]

Like I said, the faith of the cebuano language was brought about the government and since you mentioned Marcos, you can blame the Ilocano for putting the tagalog language in the pedestal. I don't know why? Marcos hardly speak tagalog as far as I can remember, he speaks mostly english on his speeches if I can remember it back or even from documetaries I've seen. His wife is a waray bisaya.. I do not know why she didn't influence Ferdinand Marcos to promote bisaya since she was from the same region as you guys...


Mind you, Fedinand is an Ilocano and Imelda is a Waray, but they have both in common: they are Tagalistas.

I don't think the tagalogs are in POWER.

Of course Tagalogs are not in power. Tagalistas are.

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

And to add to all these, you don't really have to love a language. You can speak it without loving it. Ofcourse your biases would be with your native tongue, ones that you are using at home and with your friends. When I am in Cebu, I would initiate conversation and would try my best to speak to them in their language since I understand that alot of you guys are not comfortable in tagalog but atleast I know when I said something in tagalog, you understand it and when you respond to me in bisaya, I would make sure to tell you or let you know I understood it real well. That is just how you respect one another.

well having said that, I may exempt you from my "own" rules or the whole SSC-Philippines community because I believe you guys already know how is it going with us here but sad to say not all the people especially those in manila, are not like you guys who I suppose is much more understanding and humble towards Cebuanos and Visayans for that matter, than the Tagalogs in Manila are. and don't worry bai @mwg12a, Me, we here (I suppose) are really not that hard towards you guys, because speaking for myself, I don't deny that I have many Tagalog friends too but I also had some whom I hated the most. I had good friends for the past 3 years already after making 3 summers staying at my cousin's house at Caloocan and I was very fortunate enough that I never had an unfair treatment except for once. I say never had except once because they say they kinda love my style of fashion not kinda "badoy" and not very "bisaya" according to them but more than that, I was thankful they never made me feel any different. In this case, I was fortunate but how about my fellow Cebuanos/Visayans who can't even pass a "Tagalog-imposed" social standards plus add to our very hard Tagalog accent, do you expect them to have the same treatment as I did? I guess not. I say I once experienced "unbelievable" behaviors when my cousin's friend introduced me to some of his chums but after hearing my accent, they started to act silly and began their silly jokes and everything. Well, thank god I can tolerate the embarrassment but what makes me feel bad is when I started to share my thoughts with them and all of a sudden they'll start arguing with me, its as if they know everything but I was very calm because I don't want to cause trouble knowing that I can't argue freely because I hardly speak Tagalog and I can't express my thoughts the way I wanted to so I just humbly left myself and disappear...:lol::lol::lol:

This may not hold true to all the Tagalog guys out there, you may say I was unfortunate to met the wrong guys but now, after being here, I say I'm very fortunate I met the right guys because I believe, by now you are different from the rest of them. :cheers:

[mwg12a]

Mind you, Fedinand is an Ilocano and Imelda is a Waray, but they have both in common: they are Tagalistas.



Of course Tagalogs are not in power. Tagalistas are.

Is there such thing as tagalistas with the exception of the inherent tagalogs themselves? Just because one speaks tagalog and he or she is actually a bisaya first means they are tagalista. They do speak the tagalog language but it doesn't mean they are tagalista and the tagalista word is only used or borrowed term by an SSC forumer, they adopted it and doesn't really mean exactly how they portray it. I don't think there is really a tagalista term in the tagalog dictionary.

If tagalistas are true, then there should be the ENGLESISTA because the english language is being adapted and falsely claiming as truely filipino. For one thing, the filipinos can't claim it because if you would have to go to how many native english speakers there are in the Philippines who would speak at home and to their friends and the native languages they have in the Philippines is considered only a second nature.

I don't think you can consider the Marcoses as tagalistas. Why? Just like any elite in the Philippines who are truely considered as elite and socialites, their primary languages are english first over the tagalog, Ilocano and waray. Have you heard Imelda's grandkids? They speak english with a more american accent than filipino even if they speak tagalog halfways decently...

[mwg12a]

@Sleepwalker, the equality in the Philippines is second to none... Even in Manila alone, it's hard to find equality. This the reason why I said in the past that in the Philippines there are prejudices, we just failed to see it, some would refuse to admit there is. This is why there is no much poverty in the Philippines, not just in the provinces but in MANILA alone if you see the hundreds of thousands of illegal settlers.

There are many filipinos who are committing social injustices towards fellow filipinos, one good example are the sales people in any department stores in the Philippines ,whether it maybe Manila or Cebu, once they see someone who enters the store that is not well dressed, they pass judgements and would be treated poorly with bad service as oppossed to well dressed ones. We tend to make fun of the people who looks less sophisticated than us. We pass bad judgements right away, this is why overseas, when a filipino spotted a fellow filipino, they tendency is to snob one another and some would deny they are filipino as well, until maybe one get to know one another in the end.


The unity amongst filipino is hard to achieve because we pass judgment right away, we jump into a conclusion very quick. I feel that the IMPerial Manila is now mostly becoming a state of mind. Cebu is a good example for progress. Most outside Manila see that the government is focusing so much with the developments in Manila but I think there is more to it, Cebu started gaining a momentum in tourism. Look at how the progresss the people are seing in Cebu. I think the poverty in the Philippines is only blamed in one person but we fail to realized that part of the problem is the people itself. I'm not denying the fact that the corruption in the Philippines are all in the government but the corruption doesn't only linger in Manila, look at CICC, there is anomaly being connected to there itself. Since there is a fast growing migration in Manila from the filipinos all over the country, it's hard not to focus the attention in Manila. But once there are activities in other regions. Look at the result? building of infrastures all over the Philippines by the private sectors, even malls are sprouting all over the corner of the Philippines.

The bottom line here is that, there are so many filipinos who are just "know it all" they see alot of things and read through lines way too much so it create conflicts.

[mwg12a]

well having said that, I may exempt you from my "own" rules or the whole SSC-Philippines community because I believe you guys already know how is it going with us here but sad to say not all the people especially those in manila, are not like you guys who I suppose is much more understanding and humble towards Cebuanos and Visayans for that matter, than the Tagalogs in Manila are. and don't worry bai @mwg12a, Me, we here (I suppose) are really not that hard towards you guys, because speaking for myself, I don't deny that I have many Tagalog friends too but I also had some whom I hated the most. I had good friends for the past 3 years already after making 3 summers staying at my cousin's house at Caloocan and I was very fortunate enough that I never had an unfair treatment except for once. I say never had except once because they say they kinda love my style of fashion not kinda "badoy" and not very "bisaya" according to them but more than that, I was thankful they never made me feel any different. In this case, I was fortunate but how about my fellow Cebuanos/Visayans who can't even pass a "Tagalog-imposed" social standards plus add to our very hard Tagalog accent, do you expect them to have the same treatment as I did? I guess not. I say I once experienced "unbelievable" behaviors when my cousin's friend introduced me to some of his chums but after hearing my accent, they started to act silly and began their silly jokes and everything. Well, thank god I can tolerate the embarrassment but what makes me feel bad is when I started to share my thoughts with them and all of a sudden they'll start arguing with me, its as if they know everything but I was very calm because I don't want to cause trouble knowing that I can't argue freely because I hardly speak Tagalog and I can't express my thoughts the way I wanted to so I just humbly left myself and disappear...:lol::lol::lol:

This may not hold true to all the Tagalog guys out there, you may say I was unfortunate to met the wrong guys but now, after being here, I say I'm very fortunate I met the right guys because I believe, by now you are different from the rest of them. :cheers:

Where I live right now, we have filipinos considered close to us, all from different parts of the Philippines originally, Ilocano from Ilocos sur, Kapangpangan from Tarlac, tagalog from Laguna, Bisaya from Cebu. I can relate to experiences you've had. As a filipino, I guess I am guilty as well of passing judgement on a fellow filipino who are not from the same ethnicity as I am. Your first reaction would be, this so and so is from this place is a back biter, this so and so is a know it all and likes to start conflict amongst fellow filipinos in the same work place. At one point, I almost decided to not to have to do with any single filipino, thankfully I never went that far. My point here is that sometimes, it's the state of our mind. We are so conscious of what other people would think about us so we create this hysteria within us and we get paranoid. In our group, the bisaya are very bisaya, the ilocanos are very ilocano but somehow we understand one another not by language but because of the same heritage and culture, thats why we get along. Ofcourse there would be time that there would be conflict but we are human beings, we are bound to make mistake , but we also learn from our own mistake.

I know for one thing, a bisaya is easily offended when it comes to accent and they think they are being ridiculed. I've given an example before with my inlaw, when we were in Cebu, they said "sticky" I asked innocently why the place is called "sticky" only to find out he meant S.T.K. I saw right away in his face he was offended but having been in Cebu for the first time, what do I know? That day I felt real bad I offended, he can't react any other because I am a guest, but since then, I realized I have to really tip toe and watch carefully on what to say or ask, i can't apologize either because I feel like if I do, I would sound like I did it on purpose. There is so many tales I can tell you guys about these but one thing for sure, i feel so little and helpless, But what can I do??? I have no control over some things... I just have to suck it all in my gut hoping they wouldn't really take it wrongly.

Another good example is that I have been talking to my wife's nephew, he speaks english and bisaya, certainly, I can't relate to him in tagalog so it has to be english, his uncle butted in and asked me something in english. Again innocently, I responded to him in tagalog since he has spoken to me in tagalog before, he and his wife looks very offended. What can I do? I responded in tagalog because I dont want to pass as snobbish "di ko ganahan mag inarte" just because I came from another country, my purpose was to be courteous and not belittle them.

My point is, things like these do happen but I am sure if you came to Manila as a younger person, you know how kids are sometimes, they are cruel anywhere in the world but as an adult, and you're a bisaya, if you are both educated , you would not be subject to ridicule as much as when you are with kids.

[Mercato]

Is there such thing as tagalistas with the exception of the inherent tagalogs themselves? Just because one speaks tagalog and he or she is actually a bisaya first means they are tagalista. They do speak the tagalog language but it doesn't mean they are tagalista and the tagalista word is only used or borrowed term by an SSC forumer, they adopted it and doesn't really mean exactly how they portray it. I don't think there is really a tagalista term in the tagalog dictionary.

If tagalistas are true, then there should be the ENGLESISTA because the english language is being adapted and falsely claiming as truely filipino. For one thing, the filipinos can't claim it because if you would have to go to how many native english speakers there are in the Philippines who would speak at home and to their friends and the native languages they have in the Philippines is considered only a second nature. Anglicista is less widely known but it can be considered as one having an ideology of English language advocacy. There is such a word (Anglicism) in British English as one being particular to British English vis a vis other forms of English. Its second meaning is having an English word or phrase being used in a foreign language. The 2nd meaning has evolved somewhere to mean an advocate, an ideologue for and behalf of English, the language. One must also be careful to differentiate between Anglicista and the English people, or even the Anglican Church. :lol:

Now let's see, oh yes. We also have the word Hispanista to mean one who is an advocate of the Spanish language. Howbeit being a Hispanista does not necessarily mean one is a Latino or Spaniard. Also we see the suffix "-ista" or "-ism" as pertaining to an ideology or advocacy. :lol:

Then we have the common terms Socialista, Nacionalista, Activista, Communista, Fascista, etc, etc and these are all pertaining to ideologies. :lol:

So Windshear is correct to say Tagalista. 'Tis also an ideology or advocacy for/ or on behalf of, the promotion of the Tagalog language and culture. It is used by many quarters (like DILFED & other forums) and not confined within SSC. Of course, like in the previously mentioned advocacies, Tagalista or being imbued with the Tagalista ideology does not necessarily mean one is of Tagalog ethnic origin, or having Tagalog as his/her native language. One must really learn to distinguish between an ideology and an ethnicity. :lol:

Ah yes, do they exist? Yes, they do. One example of a tagalista group is WIKA. :lol:

[flesh_is_weak]

nalingaw gyud ko sa among IELTS review gahapon...gipa-istorya man mi kung asa mi nasura gikan, akong gisulti: "i'm from Cebu" ang katong itom na maestra namo ug ang akong mga classmate na korean ug japanese, naglibog kung asa kuno na ang Cebu...

ingon dayon ko na ang Cebu, 'colony' na siya sa Pilipinas :lol:

[mwg12a]

@Mercato
Still can't consider the Marcoses as tagalistas, what the advocated doesnt really conform to their own deed because they resort to english more than tagalog. It's like they decided for the tagalogs by they themselves doesn't follow their own rules. Promotion of something means they would engage themselves in tagalog as a role model for their followers. I think WIKA is being misunderstood as imposition when the whole purpose is to promote a language that can be spoken by the majority solely for the purepose of having an official language WITHOUT killing and banning the use of other native filipino languages. That is my whole point, you guys see it as imposition and is meant to erase the bisaya language or any filipino languages as awhole when it's not. The only failure in that system is that, the government doesn't want to spend extra cash to fund Department of Education on multiple programs for languages for each region simply because THERE IS REALLY NO money for it. Economically, the Phililppine government can't sustain that , they rather look for means to provide jobs to it's people which sadly happens to be more on sending filipinos overseas. The rest of the issues are mostly due to sentimental values for some.

[mwg12a]

nalingaw gyud ko sa among IELTS review gahapon...gipa-istorya man mi kung asa mi nasura gikan, akong gisulti: "i'm from Cebu" ang katong itom na maestra namo ug ang akong mga classmate na korean ug japanese, naglibog kung asa kuno na ang Cebu...

ingon dayon ko na ang Cebu, 'colony' na siya sa Pilipinas :lol:

That's funny. Some people doesn't even know where the Philippines is exactly located, some thought i was part of the mariannas, some thinks it's not part of asia, there are some americans thinks that the Philippines is still a US colony.

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

nalingaw gyud ko sa among IELTS review gahapon...gipa-istorya man mi kung asa mi nasura gikan, akong gisulti: "i'm from Cebu" ang katong itom na maestra namo ug ang akong mga classmate na korean ug japanese, naglibog kung asa kuno na ang Cebu...

ingon dayon ko na ang Cebu, 'colony' na siya sa Pilipinas :lol:

bai @flesh_is_weak, nganu ni take up ka ug IELTS? nurse ka? :cheers:

[Mercato]

@Mercato
Still can't consider the Marcoses as tagalistas, what the advocated doesnt really conform to their own deed because they resort to english more than tagalog. It's like they decided for the tagalogs by they themselves doesn't follow their own rules. Promotion of something means they would engage themselves in tagalog as a role model for their followers. I think WIKA is being misunderstood as imposition when the whole purpose is to promote a language that can be spoken by the majority solely for the purepose of having an official language WITHOUT killing and banning the use of other native filipino languages. That is my whole point, you guys see it as imposition and is meant to erase the bisaya language or any filipino languages as awhole when it's not. The only failure in that system is that, the government doesn't want to spend extra cash to fund Department of Education on multiple programs for languages for each region simply because THERE IS REALLY NO money for it. Economically, the Phililppine government can't sustain that , they rather look for means to provide jobs to it's people which sadly happens to be more on sending filipinos overseas. The rest of the issues are mostly due to sentimental values for some. OT >>> Jajaja :lol: It's sooo funny that nobody wants to be associated with the Marcoses, but the paradox is that Imeldific and her kids went on to win elections in the Philippines, have the time of their lives back in power and retire (with wealth intact). With all the blessings of our wonderful electorate. Plus they get to win their old court cases, to boot. Onli in da pilipins, mai gad. :ohno:

As for WIKA, theirs is not a new phenomenon. People like them say its a new thingy. No it is not. That hat trick had been foisted on us decades ago shortly after Liberation. A supposed "Filipino" language which was supposed to be an "amalgam" of all native languages. Mind you, at a time when Filipinas was boasting "second only to Japan". That is the convenient thing about promises and Company Collective Agreements. They're always bound to be broken. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ah yes, so we are here in the 21st century and the same hat trick is being employed (again). Geeez, get a load of this. :lol: I can imagine one day when I reincarnate in the 22nd century, Filipinos will have lost all memory of Spanish and English and will be speaking English just like the Indonesians and the Burmese - in painfully fractured sentences - but boy that's ok, Flips will proudly breastbeat about how ultranationalistic they are.:lol: What about the regional tongues? Gone with the dinosaurs - :lol: (errr, they think I was born yesterday?? Not...) promises, promises ohh my acned foot. been there, done that... :)

Let me re-quote myself. I do realize I did not mention political or even the national capital...
Naturalmente, what's there to complain about if you're the one in power? - & this from the cultural and linguistic point of view. :| :colgate:

[Wind Shear]

^^
Bai Mercato, ania pa gayud. Ngano man nihisgot siya ug mga anak ni Ferdinand ug ni Imelda kay Tagalista nga ang akong gihisgot sila man managtiayona wala may labot ang ilang anak? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Pagkatuytoy!

Mind you, Fedinand is an Ilocano and Imelda is a Waray, but they have both in common: they are Tagalistas.


I don't think you can consider the Marcoses as tagalistas. Why? Just like any elite in the Philippines who are truely considered as elite and socialites, their primary languages are english first over the tagalog, Ilocano and waray. Have you heard Imelda's grandkids? They speak english with a more american accent than filipino even if they speak tagalog halfways decently...

[barukdok]

I don't think there is a total misconception that bout cebu as a bisaya, many filipinos knows the difference and the geography in the Philippines, icarus and habbaggat can attest to that. They have lived in Manila.

See? I think your hatred towards the tagalogs and equating Manila as the sole seat of tagalog people, you keep on forgetting that other promdis being portrayed by the media are tagalog from batangas who is alse being affected when you bash the tagalog people and they have not said anything against the bisaya, maybe the snotty Manilenos but manila isn't all tagalog even if the medium of most communication there is tagalog, there are alot of inglesoro -inglesera there where the masa were prowning upon and rasing their eyebrows. There is the problem there on your part, you haven't really lived in Manila and your opinions are only based on one or two experiences and the recounts of some few. Unlike Icarus and Habaggat, they have lived in Manila, has been in Cebu nd Davao so they see both sides of the story, Much like how I have been now since I have been both in Manila and Cebu and actually experienced the life in Cebu. When I am in Cebu, I am totally surrounded by Cebuanos so I know better. But people like you never affected my opinion about Cebu. I still like Cebu and would continue to be there whenever I can...

i lived in manila for years. and i have horror stories to tell. you know what one tagalog student said to another (and it wasn't a joke)? "ba't ka nag-sho-shorts? para kang magsasaka." there are many variations of this arrogance and condescension. and i haven't even enumerated those directed against cebuanos and fellow visayans.

but for starters, here's one: do you know what the tagalogs nicknamed a cebuano friend of mine? "nunuy" and trailed it with accented comments. sure, it was in zest, and he knew how to deal with it.

but just imagine a stranger there, the quotidian cebuano newcomer, and the insults he has to endure. luckily for them (and for me) cebuano speakers in manila are aplenty and it's easy to seek refuge.

a few years back, a student nurse assigned in luzon mentioned a mall in cebu to fellow student nurses. the reply he got? "may mall pala duon?" what arrogance, what tactless ignorance.

the insults cebuanos get from many manilenyos are rampant and are not isolated cases. just look at how the powerful manila-controlled media stereotypes the bisaya: the katulong, the kawatan, the clueless promdi. you get laughs at the expense of our accent. at times, we laugh along but deep inside, we resent it.

a bisaya making fun of a fellow bisaya is okay, but a tagalog making fun of a bisaya is not. the reasons are more deep-seated than accent.

yes there are educated tagalogs i know and many of them are good friends of mine. but they're few and far between. the tagalog masa just has this air of superiority over other promdis and it's just sickening.

as some tagalogs perfectly put it: kung makaasta, akala mo kung sino.

[Onizuka01]

i lived in manila for years. and i have horror stories to tell. you know what one tagalog student said to another (and it wasn't a joke)? "ba't ka nag-sho-shorts? para kang magsasaka." there are many variations of this arrogance and condescension. and i haven't even enumerated those directed against cebuanos and fellow visayans.

but for starters, here's one: do you know what the tagalogs nicknamed a cebuano friend of mine? "nunuy" and trailed it with accented comments. sure, it was in zest, and he knew how to deal with it.

but just imagine a stranger there, the quotidian cebuano newcomer, and the insults he has to endure. luckily for them (and for me) cebuano speakers in manila are aplenty and it's easy to seek refuge.

a few years back, a student nurse assigned in luzon mentioned a mall in cebu to fellow student nurses. the reply he got? "may mall pala duon?" what arrogance, what tactless ignorance.

the insults cebuanos get from many manilenyos are rampant and are not isolated cases. just look at how the powerful manila-controlled media stereotypes the bisaya: the katulong, the kawatan, the clueless promdi. you get laughs at the expense of our accent. at times, we laugh along but deep inside, we resent it.

a bisaya making fun of a fellow bisaya is okay, but a tagalog making fun of a bisaya is not. the reasons are more deep-seated than accent.

yes there are educated tagalogs i know and many of them are good friends of mine. but they're few and far between. the tagalog masa just has this air of superiority over other promdis and it's just sickening.

as some tagalogs perfectly put it: kung makaasta, akala mo kung sino.

i just remembered a month ago my friend returned here in cebu from one of the universities in manila..he told me he was horrified by the embarrassment he got because of his accent, he was like forced to talk in tagalog if he wont then those people wont speak to him or would just laugh at him. i dont wanna say more about it. luckily his english impressive somehow. he just swallowed it like nothing had happened.

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

^^

woow, glad your friend had that compensation. mostly educated visayans/cebuanos compensate their bad tagalog with good english. e.g. before, when I was still reviewing for the nursing board exams, I remember one reviewer from Manila, I believe she was from UST, that she shared to us her rather embarassing experience during one of her lectures conducted at a certain review center in cebu. When she arrive at the center, she walk pass a group of ladies waiting for her to start the review and she happen to ask one lady what is her name. the lady said: "Jeniper" Well by sharing to us this, she could have taught we would also laugh but we never did because honestly there is nothing to laugh about. Anyway because she must have been "annoyed" about what she heard, she told the lady to say her name again, as usual the lady said: "Jeniper!" After hearing everything she told us, she merely smiled and said, "what? was that Jenifer?" and sincerely, the lady nodded. So after that incident, the review was about to begin and accidentally, the lady named Jenifer was seated at the front, and not to mention, Jenifer was made to lead the opening prayer and without hesitation, Jenifer though was very confident and made a spontaneous prayer in english. Obviously, after Jenifer delivered her prayer, the reviewer was totally amazed and can't believe herself to hear that Jenifer was well versed and had that english delivered wonderfully in her prayer. Right there and then, she told us that with what Jenifer was exhibiting to her, she has never made an unfair remark against a bisaya/cebuano since then. She told us that bisayans/cebuanos should not be judged by how bad our tagalog accent is but more importantly, how we exude confidence in speaking in any language we know. She said that she never heard of such spontaneity in her review classes in Luzon or Metro Manila other than here in the Visayas & Mindanao and she was just overjoyed because even she, ironically she confess, that she can't even make a "good" prayer done spontaneously in english. All she knew was just memorizing prayers, etc. but never a spontaneous prayer that Jenifer has ever taught her.

So that's it, visayans compensate their bad tagalog accent with good sounding english...:cheers:

[Wind Shear]

Something like "If I can't speak Tagalog well because you laughed at my funny and ridiculous accent to your bloody ears, then I rather speak English like Inday (http://www.blogniinday.com) to give you an epistaxis!" :D

I overheard many times that the call center companies prefer Cebuano speakers due to fluency in English. If not due to the fluency, they are easily trained.

[mwg12a]

@barukdok

I'm sure there are things that happens in Manila,especially with kids, college students are still pretty much acting like kids until after they graduated, that's pretty normal even in countries like united states where kids would mock people with accents...

I have my own share of indifference from Cebuano on an initial treatment so things that happen in Manila happens in Cebu.

As a matter of fact, I was with a group of Cebuanos while in Cebu and they run into a bisaya from outside Cebu, they commented that woman might be from a rural provinces somewhere in another bisayan island and they critisize her way of speaking, they even quoted she must have been from a poor province and you can hear the condescending attitude towards a bisaya. That even happen here in the state when, okay, here is another person close to my family, would comment the same way if they run into a bisaya on the street, again you would hear their condescending attitude towards her, mostly not infront of her but somehow, there is a tone of indifference and these are adults even....


I'm sure you would hear recounts from a fellow cebuano but I am sure you would rarely hear an instigator bisaya talk about it with their peers unless they are the one being treated with prejudices.

Again, most filipinos in general are mean and they do no realize that what they are doing is a form of prejudicism towards their own kind... We only knew about white americans being prejudice to blacks on non white, but, I am sure, you guys were not even aware that filipinos are racist as well, especially towards the chinese when we mock them the way they talk, and how we stereotypecast a "bumbay" . Those happen in Cebu as well but then the Cebuanos or even the Manilenos would recognize that as prejudism, more on "merely just having fun". Well, you guys experienced being a subject to joke, but that's what you guys only remember. You don't remember what you might have done to someone else... such as what happened to me when I commented something and I was accused of insulting a bisaya when I really didnt' have a clue that what I said would be sensitive to a bisaya.

[mwg12a]

Something like "If I can't speak Tagalog well because you laughed at my accent, then I rather speak English like Inday (http://www.blogniinday.com) to give you an epistaxis!" :D

I overheard many times that the call center companies prefer Cebuano speakers due to fluency in English. If not due to the fluency, they are easily trained.

There were bisaya who was laughed upon not only by a fellow filipino because of an accent. Even if you speak english to a tagalog, chances are, you would still be laughed at because your accent would still be very distinctive and I have a couple of example for these since I have been around many Cebuanos.

My sister inlaw became a victim not by just fellow filipino but an american friend we had. She was trying to complement our friends "deck" (back wooden patio) She said "Aaron, you have a very big DICK (for deck). Our american friend turned beat red and laughed as hard as he can.. and you know what DICK means right?

Another instance was that, threw a party for her 3 y/o daughter and when she tried to gather everybody around, she said, "come on everybody, Lits gathir around, and BLOW THE CAKE" , that same word was repeated by her own sister, "come on kids, my niece is going to BLOW THE CAKE" and everybody started to laugh. Alot of Cebuanos have hard time with "on" "in" "he" or "she" (he and she goes with all filipinos too)

My point is, sure, there are alot of bisaya's who loves to speak english but like any other filipinos, they are no better than the other.... Because with the newly arrived filipino nurses, many of them are from the bisayas and the same complain you would hear from them, the Americans can't understand them during the first few months until their tongues started to get used in how americans actually pronounced. Those ones with the heaviest accent were from Pangasinan and Illonggos even if they speak english.

[Mercato]

These 2 are my personal preferences; my personal favourites. Cebuano first, then followed by the original... :)

Cebuano
by Jess Vestil

Yutang tabunon
Mutya nga masilakon,
Putling bahandi,
Amo kang gimahal.

Mithing gisimba,
Yuta's mga bayani,
Sa manlulupig,
Pagadapigan ka.

Ang mga buntod mo,
Ug lapyahan sa langit mong bughaw,
Nagahulad sa awit, lamdag sa
Kaliwat tang gawas.

Silaw sa adlaw ug bituon
Sa nasudnong bandila,
Nagatima-an nga buhion ta
Ang atong pagka-usa.

Yutang maanyag, duyan ka sa pagmahal,
Landong sa langit ang dughan mo;
Pakatam-ison namo nga nagatukaw
Kon mamatay man sa ngalan mo. Filipinas
Poet and soldier José Palma wrote a poem titled Filipinas to suit the music of the Marcha Nacional Filipina. The poem was published for the first time in La Independencia on September 3, 1899.

Tierra adorada
Hija del sol de Oriente
Su fuego ardiente
En ti latiendo está.

Patria de amores
Del heroísmo cuna,
Los invasores
No te hallarán jamás.

En tu azul cielo, en tus auras,
En tus montes y en tu mar
Esplende y late el poema
De tu amada libertad.

Tu pabellón, que en las lides
La victoria iluminó,No verá nunca apagados
Sus estrellas y su sol.

Tierra de dichas, de sol y amores,
En tu regazo dulce es vivir.
Es una gloria para tus hijos,
Cuando te ofenden, por ti morir.

:cheers2:

[Ang_Bantayanon]

There seems to be something wrong with the Cebuano anthem. I can still remember the song some two decades ago when I was in elementary school.

"Yutang tabunon, mutya nga
masilakon. Putling bahandi
Amo kang gimahal.

Mithing gisimba,
Yuta's mga bayani,
Sa malupigon,
Pagadapigan ka.

Ang mga bungtod mo,
Ug lapyahan sa langit mong bughaw,
............
............

Silaw sa adlaw ug bituon
Sa nasudnong bandila,
Nagatima-an nga buhion ta
Ang atong pagka-usa.

Yutang maanyag, duyan ka sa pagmahal,
Landong sa langit ang dughan mo;
Pagatam-ison namo kon maulipon man
Ang kamatayon sa dughan mo.

[barukdok]

@barukdok
...when I commented something and I was accused of insulting a bisaya when I really didnt' have a clue that what I said would be sensitive to a bisaya.

thank you for admitting you are prone to cluelessness. here's a bigger picture, an incident that sparked more resentment against the imperials almost a year ago, so you would be enlightened:

http://www.pinoypress.net/2007/12/27/visayans-unite-or-why-they-should-boycott-sakal-sakali-saklolo/


Visayans Unite! (Or Why They Should Boycott ‘Sakal Sakali Saklolo’) (http://www.pinoypress.net/2007/12/27/visayans-unite-or-why-they-should-boycott-sakal-sakali-saklolo/)
PUBLISHED ON December 27, 2007 AT 9:31 PM

Senate Minority Leader Aquilino “Nene” Q. Pimentel, Jr. (PDP-Laban) today expressed concern that an episode in the film “Sakal Sakali Saklolo” is conveying a wrong message to Filipinos by seemingly denigrating the use of the Visayan language, which is most widely spoken in the Visayas and large parts of Mindanao.

Pimentel specifically cited a portion of the film in which a grandmother was telling a nanny (yaya) in Tagalog: “Bakit pinapalaki ninyong Bisaya ang apo ko?” (Why are you rearing my grandchild as a Bisaya?)

The mother butted in by telling the yaya: “Speak to the kid in Tagalog. Parang Pinoy. (So that he grows up like a Pinoy).”

He said such conversation smacks of an ethnic slur to non-Tagalog speaking Filipinos as he called on the producer of the film Star Cinema, to promptly take steps to rectify the error.

“It offends the sensibilities of the Visayans and other non-Tagalog speaking citizens by making them feel as if they are less Filipino than the Tagalogs. It creates useless hatred in the nation,” he said.

Pimentel also voiced disappointment that the Movie and Television Review and Classification Board has overlooked the palpable flaw in the film which it should not have tolerated in keeping with its functions.

“Sakal Sakali Saklolo,” with Judy Ann Santos and Ryan Agoncillo in the lead roles, is an official entry to the ongoing Metro Manila Film Festival. (end)*

---------

Please do not tell me this capacity to slur is an isolated case limited to juveniles. This goes up all the way to the grown up powers-that-be -- in politics, in business and in media. And don't make cluelessness an excuse this time.

*(the dialogue in question is irrelevant to the story itself and wouldn't have altered the meaning or message of the movie were it excluded. the movie's intention was never to bring to fore this issue. in fact, the line was completely random, from out of nowhere. why it was included in the movie is mind-boggling, and as such can be considered a cheap shot. the seasoned director ought to have been more circumspect.)

[mwg12a]

You didn't understand what I said. It means that the bisaya person reacted negatively to what I said because what dominated him is the stereotypical resentment towards non bisaya. What I said or asked was very innocent and was out of curiosity of what they said. I didn't even realized that it was the way "sticky" was pronounced. I thought it was an ENGLISH WORD, but it turns out to be "S.T.K." pronounced in bisaya. So the letter "K" was pronounced as "ke" instead of " kae". It's not being clueless per se, and not being insensitve. They jump into a conclusion that I was insulting them with how the way they talk. Much like how a foreigner would easily mistook "STK" for "sticky".

If what you posted as true. Then, that can be enlikened to the incident in Hollywood where in desperate housewife. a filipino doctor was used as an example for by the star to express her concern about the level of training of a filipino doctor in Manila which also reflects the Philippines as a whole. But then again, it's a movie.... knowing how Pimentel operates... He is one of the reason why there is always a conflict in the filipino politics... Overly opinionated that is counter productive.

[Wind Shear]

From Hiligaynon Thread:

i thought cebuano meant both people and language

Here's how:


English Cebuano
--------------------------------------------------------------
Cebu (as place) Cebu Sugbo
Cebuano (as people) Cebuano Sugboanon
Cebuano (as language) Cebuano Sinugbuanon

In Cebuano language, the infix "in" refers to a language. For example, Tagalog as language in Cebuano is "Tinagalog" or "Tinagawog" (a dialectal variation). And Hiligaynon in Cebuano is "Hiniligaynon", Waray for "Winaray", English for "Ininglis", Castillian Spanish for "Kinatsila" and so on.

I may not an expert in Cebuano language and literature, but there are supporting documents that they use it. One classic example is Cebuano Wikipedya (http//ceb.wikipedia.org).

[mAiNsTrEaMhunter]

^^

thanks for the correction bai...:cheers:

[Askal82]

i just remembered a month ago my friend returned here in cebu from one of the universities in manila..he told me he was horrified by the embarrassment he got because of his accent, he was like forced to talk in tagalog if he wont then those people wont speak to him or would just laugh at him. i dont wanna say more about it. luckily his english impressive somehow. he just swallowed it like nothing had happened.

^^

woow, glad your friend had that compensation. mostly educated visayans/cebuanos compensate their bad tagalog with good english. e.g. before, when I was still reviewing for the nursing board exams, I remember one reviewer from Manila, I believe she was from UST, that she shared to us her rather embarassing experience during one of her lectures conducted at a certain review center in cebu. When she arrive at the center, she walk pass a group of ladies waiting for her to start the review and she happen to ask one lady what is her name. the lady said: "Jeniper" Well by sharing to us this, she could have taught we would also laugh but we never did because honestly there is nothing to laugh about. Anyway because she must have been "annoyed" about what she heard, she told the lady to say her name again, as usual the lady said: "Jeniper!" After hearing everything she told us, she merely smiled and said, "what? was that Jenifer?" and sincerely, the lady nodded. So after that incident, the review was about to begin and accidentally, the lady named Jenifer was seated at the front, and not to mention, Jenifer was made to lead the opening prayer and without hesitation, Jenifer though was very confident and made a spontaneous prayer in english. Obviously, after Jenifer delivered her prayer, the reviewer was totally amazed and can't believe herself to hear that Jenifer was well versed and had that english delivered wonderfully in her prayer. Right there and then, she told us that with what Jenifer was exhibiting to her, she has never made an unfair remark against a bisaya/cebuano since then. She told us that bisayans/cebuanos should not be judged by how bad our tagalog accent is but more importantly, how we exude confidence in speaking in any language we know. She said that she never heard of such spontaneity in her review classes in Luzon or Metro Manila other than here in the Visayas & Mindanao and she was just overjoyed because even she, ironically she confess, that she can't even make a "good" prayer done spontaneously in english. All she knew was just memorizing prayers, etc. but never a spontaneous prayer that Jenifer has ever taught her.

So that's it, visayans compensate their bad tagalog accent with good sounding english...:cheers:

Amen to that igsuong Mainstreamhunter!

Go Cebu! Go Cebuano!

First of all, They got served!! :lol:

However, I have you're so-called 'educated Cebuano' friends here who aren't much better in having a good command of English along with other Filipino groups. I can hardly distinguish the Englishes of a Cebuano, Tagalog or Ilokano here.

Regardless where you come from in the Philippines but if you are a new transplant in American soil carrying you're way of life, language and accent, you're still regarded as a FOB (Fresh Off the Boat). :lol:

[mwg12a]

That is what I have been saying all along Askal, no matter where you are from in the Philippines, Americans hear accent, they would not understand you half of the time. There are good english speaking bisayans, tagalog or ilocano but there are bad ones too, they are all equally laughed at with no preference over the others. They see you as one, they see you as a person with the same accent. The Americans won't be able to tell if you're a bisaya or tagalog. The proliferation of call centers in the Philippines is partly due to the filipinos ability to speak in the english language but it is PRIMARILY BROUGHT ABOUT THE CHEAP LABOR in the Philippines. Nothing more, nothing less... The more you go outside Manila, the cheaper the labor market is.... Ofcourse this companies would make it sound like "heaven and earth" to the filipinos... Would they say "hey, we picked you guys because the labor is very cheap in the Philippines.." And then ofcourse in Cebu area there are beautiful resorts so it's an advantage to their CEOs when they visit their own companies from overseas, they can add leisure on their business trips.


Besides not only the bisaya who are being picked on by alot of people in Manila, even a Laguna or Batangunos were being ridiculed for speaking funny even in english since most of these people pronounced the letter "F" into letter "P" and vice versa. The Kapangpangan are being ridiculed for having no letter "H" in words that starts with letter "H" and adds "H" on words with no "H". I heard an illonggo before laughed at a tagalog in Manila for speaking english that sound like a Batangueno and I've heard a tagalog in the US laughed at an Illonggo for being so illonggo sounding when he speaks in english... We do it to each other. It's not like a one sided deal. Maybe the Cebuanos are a bit more "too sensitive" when it come to the language and "accent" issue.

[barukdok]

If what you posted as true. Then, that can be enlikened to the incident in Hollywood where in desperate housewife. a filipino doctor was used as an example for by the star to express her concern about the level of training of a filipino doctor in Manila which also reflects the Philippines as a whole. But then again, it's a movie.... knowing how Pimentel operates... He is one of the reason why there is always a conflict in the filipino politics... Overly opinionated that is counter productive.

again, cluelessness at its best.

the point of the post is not Pimentel. it is the dialogue in the movie that has caused a stir among visayan circles last year (obviously you're out of the loop). this was discussed heavily in forums outside skyscrapercity. you can check out one of the links above.

this was a movie that aims to depict real life and real conversations. the objection was that the dialogue was completely unnecessary in the plot of the story.

let me repeat to you the lines and tell me if they're isolated, especially at the level of the "intelligent" but clueless tagalog elite:

A portion of the film shows a grandmother telling a nanny (yaya) in Tagalog: “Bakit pinapalaki ninyong Bisaya ang apo ko?” (Why are you rearing my grandchild as a Bisaya?)

The mother butted in by telling the yaya: “Speak to the kid in Tagalog. Parang Pinoy. (So that he grows up like a Pinoy).”


answer this issue and stop digressing. those lines pretty much sum up the resentment both groups have for each other and it's deep seated. and don't say it's just a movie. otherwise i'd be forced to say how terrible it is for one to be so clueless on the role movies play in society.

[barukdok]

this is not about Cebuanos against the Boholonos or Ilonggos, or the Manilenyos against the Ilocanos or Batanguenos. this is about the Visayans' overall resentment of the Tagalog's air of "supremacy," which is a much bigger scale.

the differences we have with our fellow Visayans are manageable and almost petty, and so are the Tagalogs' differences with each other. but the Visayan-Tagalog rift is a serious problem that until you Tagalogs (particularly the Manilenyos) admit to your gargantuan faults in the country's history, economy and politics, and even attempt to heal that rift, there can never be closure.

this is one of the big reasons why the Visayans, along with the other groups, are calling for FEDERALISM. we do not want to be run by your kind.

[Mercato]

First of all, They got served!! :lol:

However, I have you're so-called 'educated Cebuano' friends here who aren't much better in having a good command of English along with other Filipino groups. I can hardly distinguish the Englishes of a Cebuano, Tagalog or Ilokano here.

Regardless where you come from in the Philippines but if you are a new transplant in American soil carrying you're way of life, language and accent, you're still regarded as a FOB (Fresh Off the Boat). :lol: They were served with unjust and unprovoked prejudice and discrimination? You actually find nothing wrong with that and you think it is a natural right for some of you to do it? Get over it, you dwell too much on your lofty perch to see things from our perspective. I surmise you never will, judging from your New York imbibed arrogance and speech. I say this notwithstanding your privileged status with the SSC elite here.

Poor us, so we are all below par from your exalted command of English? Where did “Englishes” come from? :lol:

Like what I said in another thread, some Filipinos must be masochists and like being told down to, especially from an exalted elite called Filipino Americans. You might be living in the most powerful country or the most powerful city in the known universe, but to the locals you will always remain as brown immigrants and you always will be “hyphenated” – Yanks.

[barukdok]

First of all, They got served!! :lol:

However, I have you're so-called 'educated Cebuano' friends here who aren't much better in having a good command of English along with other Filipino groups. :lol:

That's because your circle is small. And you're naturally biased.

There's a simple explanation why the Visayans, in general, tend to be better than the Tagalogs at written and spoken English: the former would rather learn English more than Tagalog to communicate better with other Filipinos and nationalities who speak different tongues. It's a simple but practical motivation.

On the other hand, the Tagalogs have hardly any motivation to learn English because THEY ASSUME that other Filipinos can understand them in Tagalog ("What's the point of learning a foreign tongue?" they might ask). If they do learn English, it's usually BASTARDIZED, such as the CONYO/kolehiyala ENGLISH (e.g. "I'm so sosi kasi eh, so i have to be bossy. You know naman those pipitsugin promdis are so kadiri. Yuck.")

So between these two groups, it boils down to motivation (and resentment of course).

It's a no-brainer really.

[portludlow]

this is not about Cebuanos against the Boholonos or Ilonggos, or the Manilenyos against the Ilocanos or Batanguenos. this is about the Visayans' overall resentment of the Tagalog's air of "supremacy," which is a much bigger scale.

the differences we have with our fellow Visayans are manageable and almost petty, and so are the Tagalogs' differences with each other. but the Visayan-Tagalog rift is a serious problem that until you Tagalogs (particularly the Manilenyos) admit to your gargantuan faults in the country's history, economy and politics, and even attempt to heal that rift, there can never be closure.

this is one of the big reasons why the Visayans, along with the other groups, are calling for FEDERALISM. we do not want to be run by your kind.

I always thought that in any society, it is who have the gold rules. The problem is as old as society itself. It's just fate that Manila became the seat of government of our country. I'm not even sure if people in Manila do really have an intentional air of superiority against their fellow countrymen. Its just a happenstance that the movers and shakers of our society reside in the capital. I'm wondering if Miguel Lopez de Legaspi chose Cebu instead of Manila as the seat of government of the Spanish East Indies Co in 1565. It's likely people from other parts of the Philippines will have some gripes against the cebuanos. :)

I believe making sweeping generalizations against a group of people will not likely help in our desire for some individuals to be politically correct in their dealings with other ethnic groups. Our government obviously will need some kind of sensitivity awareness program to tackle this growing resentment in the provinces.

[barukdok]

They were served with unjust and unprovoked prejudice and discrimination? You actually find nothing wrong with that and you think it is a natural right for some of you to do it? Get over it, you dwell too much on your lofty perch to see things from our perspective. I surmise you never will, judging from your New York imbibed arrogance and speech. I say this notwithstanding your privileged status with the SSC elite here.

Poor us, so we are all below par from your exalted command of English? Where did “Englishes” come from? :lol:

Like what I said in another thread, some Filipinos must be masochists and like being told down to, especially from an exalted elite called Filipino Americans. You might be living in the most powerful country or the most powerful city in the known universe, but to the locals you will always remain as brown immigrants and you always will be “hyphenated” – Yanks.

tumpak! now who got served? just because he's in NYC, he now thinks he has a big deck. what a deckhead.

[mwg12a]

again, cluelessness at its best.


A portion of the film shows a grandmother telling a nanny (yaya) in Tagalog: “Bakit pinapalaki ninyong Bisaya ang apo ko?” (Why are you rearing my grandchild as a Bisaya?)

The mother butted in by telling the yaya: “Speak to the kid in Tagalog. Parang Pinoy. (So that he grows up like a Pinoy).”


.

Maybe you didn't get the message of the movie and you took the dialogue in that movie in a different context. It seems like you are trying to ignite something and blow things out of the proportion just to justify your own biased opionion that the TAGALOGS ARE GENERALLY BAD PEOPLE... that is how I see you try to convey your own messages. What if I tell you that I have been treated by a bisaya poorly while in Cebu? The difference between you from me is that, even if I experienced bad treatment from a bisaya, I don't generalize it because I know whether you are a tagalog or a bisaya, there would always be this so called "bad apple">

Again. It's not only the bisaya are the only one whom has been portrayed in the Philippine movies. The batanguenos are also being portrayed in the movie in a certain way... The way a Batangueno tagalog talk and their accents were being mocked also in some movies.

To me the lines you presented from that excerpt were pertaining to how FILIPINOS react to fellow filipinos and filipinos are sadly unfamiliar of the true meaning of being a racists especially a racists towards its own race do exist. In that movie you mentioned the reaction of a viewer would be varied, depends on how an individual would take it. So, there is a good message there behind a racial remark, there are those who just take it literally as it was being delivered in the movie.

[Mercato]

If what you posted as true. Then, that can be enlikened to the incident in Hollywood where in desperate housewife. a filipino doctor was used as an example for by the star to express her concern about the level of training of a filipino doctor in Manila which also reflects the Philippines as a whole. But then again, it's a movie.... knowing how Pimentel operates... He is one of the reason why there is always a conflict in the filipino politics... Overly opinionated that is counter productive. This whole affair is a story with no end in sight. Has it ever dawned on you that (despite your having a Cebuana wife) as far as you are concerned it will always go in full circle and boil down to how wrong and overtly sensitive we Cebuanos are, and how righteous your point of view is, no matter how callous and insensitive are those people you are defending?

Now before this sordid affair spins out again, didn’t someone say we will have to learn to agree to disagree? It does not help at all for you to continually hammer in your ideas here because we believe otherwise. The whole meaning of learning to agree to disagree is to leave it as it is for now, move on and find some worthwhile hobby. Henceforth, I disagree with you kibitzers here but I shall endeavour to leave it as it is, for now. Now if you'll excuse me, I must go watch the races...

[Il Tenore]

Maybe you didn't get the message of the movie and you took the dialogue in that movie in a different context. It seems like you are trying to ignite something and blow things out of the proportion just to justify your own biased opionion that the TAGALOGS ARE GENERALLY BAD PEOPLE... that is how I see you try to convey your own messages. What if I tell you that I have been treated by a bisaya poorly while in Cebu? The difference between you from me is that, even if I experienced bad treatment from a bisaya, I don't generalize it because I know whether you are a tagalog or a bisaya, there would always be this so called "bad apple">

Again. It's not only the bisaya are the only one whom has been portrayed in the Philippine movies. The batanguenos are also being portrayed in the movie in a certain way... The way a Batangueno tagalog talk and their accents were being mocked also in some movies.

To me the lines you presented from that excerpt were pertaining to how FILIPINOS react to fellow filipinos and filipinos are sadly unfamiliar of the true meaning of being a racists especially a racists towards its own race do exist. In that movie you mentioned the reaction of a viewer would be varied, depends on how an individual would take it.

but he is talking about the movie regarding Bisayans are downgraded by these so-called "elite" tagalogs whom they think they are "real" filipinos..

[mwg12a]

but he is talking about the movie regarding Bisayans are downgraded by these so-called "elite" tagalogs whom they think they are "real" filipinos..

Yes, I know, it's very clear, but to me there is a broader message to that and is why the writer and the producer chose to have it delivered that way, so, that it will give an example of a comon attitude of a filipino towards another filipino, especially if they are poor... Even the cebuanos look down on those who are poor and less sophisticated that the metropolitan cebuanos. Pimental has a point to have an equal recognition of all regional languages but the way Pimentel use that movie as an example is very divisive, Pimentel is divisive in so many ways especially when it comes to politics...

[mwg12a]

This whole affair is a story with no end in sight. Has it ever dawned on you that (despite your having a Cebuana wife) as far as you are concerned it will always go in full circle and boil down to how wrong and overtly sensitive we Cebuanos are, and how righteous your point of view is, no matter how callous and insensitive are those people you are defending?

Now before this sordid affair spins out again, didn’t someone say we will have to learn to agree to disagree? It does not help at all for you to continually hammer in your ideas here because we believe otherwise. The whole meaning of learning to agree to disagree is to leave it as it is for now, move on and find some worthwhile hobby. Henceforth, I disagree with you kibitzers here but I shall endeavour to leave it as it is, for now. Now if you'll excuse me, I must go watch the races...

I'm not defending anything, I actually mentioned how even a tagalog from the provinces of laguna and batangas has been a subject of ridicule or a certain way of portrayal.... Having said that, how come you guys are the only ones that are overly affected by all these? How about the Ilocannos, the provinciano/a tagalog that are also being portrayed as a second class citizens?

I have given you guys an example on how my inlaw or even just one of their acquintance reacted when I asked a very innocent question, not realizing I've just misquoted them because of the difference in accent. Remember "sticky" S T K? story??? one of my many examples? I thought they said it in an english word, but no, I was almost being crucified for asking the question as if I was insulting somebody the way the pronounced the word. they failed to realize it was an innocent question that it was something I heard and didn't expect the word they were saying. I don't think I would be stupid enough to insult my own inlaws or a bisaya in their own turf. Does that make sense any???

[LordCarnal]

Have you guys read about the group "TAYTAYAN?"

It's a very nice group. Hehe.

They have no officers because they believe in equality; they meet ala knights of the round table style, hehehe.

Also, when they get into their meeting place, an early 18th century house, the lingua franca is Cebuano.

MORE FROM HERE, http://www.artsehub.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=56&Itemid=60



...

[ivanc]

@barukdok:

a tagalog friend warned me in a friendly way: "bababa yung tingin ng tao sayo pag napansin nila ang bisaya-accent tagalog mo"...


the insults cebuanos get from many manilenyos are rampant and are not isolated cases. just look at how the powerful manila-controlled media stereotypes the bisaya: the katulong, the kawatan, the clueless promdi. you get laughs at the expense of our accent. at times, we laugh along but deep inside, we resent it.
sige lang mag himo ko ug tv series or movie bisaya ang amo tagalog ang maid.. hehehe :) joke....

[Askal82]

They were served with unjust and unprovoked prejudice and discrimination? You actually find nothing wrong with that and you think it is a natural right for some of you to do it? Get over it, you dwell too much on your lofty perch to see things from our perspective. I surmise you never will, judging from your New York imbibed arrogance and speech. I say this notwithstanding your privileged status with the SSC elite here.

Poor us, so we are all below par from your exalted command of English? Where did “Englishes” come from? :lol:

Like what I said in another thread, some Filipinos must be masochists and like being told down to, especially from an exalted elite called Filipino Americans. You might be living in the most powerful country or the most powerful city in the known universe, but to the locals you will always remain as brown immigrants and you always will be “hyphenated” – Yanks.

When I meant, they got served, the 'they' I'm referring to are the people who underestimated the individual for his or her poor Tagalog skills but having exceptional grasp of English per story.

Hehe, you ENTIRELY MISSED THE POINT

REGARDLESS where you come from the Philippines, people here will only recognize us as ONE people!

Go to Merriam Webster Dictionary, and the word Englishes can be found. :D

Definition:

Main Entry:
2English
Function:
noun
Date:
before 12th century

1 a: the language of the people of England and the United States and many areas now or formerly under British control b: a particular variety of English distinguished by peculiarities (as of pronunciation) c: English language, literature, or composition when a subject of study2plural in construction : the people of England3 a: an English translation b: idiomatic or intelligible English4: spin around the vertical axis deliberately imparted to a ball that is driven or rolled — compare draw , follow , body english

Website: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Englishes

To put it simply, it means dialectal variation of the English language.

That's because your circle is small. And you're naturally biased.

There's a simple explanation why the Visayans, in general, tend to be better than the Tagalogs at written and spoken English: the former would rather learn English more than Tagalog to communicate better with other Filipinos and nationalities who speak different tongues. It's a simple but practical motivation.

On the other hand, the Tagalogs have hardly any motivation to learn English because THEY ASSUME that other Filipinos can understand them in Tagalog ("What's the point of learning a foreign tongue?" they might ask). If they do learn English, it's usually BASTARDIZED, such as the CONYO/kolehiyala ENGLISH (e.g. "I'm so sosi kasi eh, so i have to be bossy. You know naman those pipitsugin promdis are so kadiri. Yuck.")

So between these two groups, it boils down to motivation (and resentment of course).

It's a no-brainer really.


Blah blah blah blah generalization. Blah blah blah blah, stereotyping and blah blah blah blah, no factual basis. :lol:

Evidence over argument please. Make sure you back it up with hard facts or even statistics before coming up with a magical conclusion like that.

Based on my experiences with Filipinos coming from diverse backgrounds, I didn't find any differences at all when speaking English. Maybe there are slight variations, but they are way too indistinguishable from each other unless they were born here.

[mwg12a]

The problem with someone people here is that, they only see and hear the jokes and shallowness they encoutered, all the negatives are always being retained and used to cause hatred but when it comes to praises that was given to them, they don't remember those. They always play "the victim". I hate to say these but hearing and knowing these harbored hatred of some bisaya people towards the tagalog in general even just hear in this thread leads me to a wrong impression that they are infact trouble makers or they like to incite conflict, sad part is, I can't afford to think these way towards them because I chose and picked amongst the women I dated before, from american, chinese, tagalog down to a bisaya, I still fell for a bisaya who happens to be an authentic Cebuana. I think it is safe for me to say that I am the most unbiased person there is just basing from my previous experiences and encouters with alot of different people, especially women.. This is just sad, there is no excuse for any hatred against one race to another this is why up to now I can't understand all these since I've been and has experienced both cultures, the tagalog and the bisaya.... I'm sure that even here in SSC, other filipinos has no clue how apparently Most Cebuanos hated the tagalogs and that Manila equates to tagalog people only... I know one thing for sure in SSC philippines alone, I have never seen a tagalog or other filipinos attack other filipinos just because they are cebuano or bisaya, and branded them as a much better english speaker than any other else as if their english is 1000% perfect with no Philipine accent whatsoever.. sigh Somehow I need to apologize but I just need to vent out some... I have not been insulted by a bisaya (in a private message) before for being a tagalog ever in my life but then again, somehow, that One particular person is a "butangerang bayot" and does not represent the bisaya or illonnga in general LOL

[Sleepwalker]

When I meant, they got served, the 'they' I'm referring to are the people who underestimated the individual for his or her poor Tagalog skills but having exceptional grasp of English per story.

Hehe, you ENTIRELY MISSED THE POINT

REGARDLESS where you come from the Philippines, people here will only recognize us as ONE people!

Go to Merriam Webster Dictionary, and the word Englishes can be found. :D

Definition:

Main Entry:
2English
Function:
noun
Date:
before 12th century

1 a: the language of the people of England and the United States and many areas now or formerly under British control b: a particular variety of English distinguished by peculiarities (as of pronunciation) c: English language, literature, or composition when a subject of study2plural in construction : the people of England3 a: an English translation b: idiomatic or intelligible English4: spin around the vertical axis deliberately imparted to a ball that is driven or rolled — compare draw , follow , body english

Website: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Englishes

To put it simply, it means dialectal variation of the English language.




Blah blah blah blah generalization. Blah blah blah blah, stereotyping and blah blah blah blah, no factual basis. :lol:

Evidence over argument please. Make sure you back it up with hard facts or even statistics before coming up with a magical conclusion like that.

Based on my experiences with Filipinos coming from diverse backgrounds, I didn't find any differences at all when speaking English. Maybe there are slight variations, but they are way too indistinguishable from each other unless they were born here.

Of course, Manilogs are not guilty of stereotyping Bisaya as low-class citizens... :)...

[Sleepwalker]

The problem with someone people here is that, they only see and hear the jokes and shallowness they encoutered, all the negatives are always being retained and used to cause hatred but when it comes to praises that was given to them, they don't remember those. They always play "the victim". I hate to say these but hearing and knowing these harbored hatred of some bisaya people towards the tagalog in general even just hear in this thread leads me to a wrong impression that they are infact trouble makers or they like to incite conflict, sad part is, I can't afford to think these way towards them because I chose and picked amongst the women I dated before, from american, chinese, tagalog down to a bisaya, I still fell for a bisaya who happens to be an authentic Cebuana. I think it is safe for me to say that I am the most unbiased person there is just basing from my previous experiences and encouters with alot of different people, especially women.. This is just sad, there is no excuse for any hatred against one race to another this is why up to now I can't understand all these since I've been and has experienced both cultures, the tagalog and the bisaya.... I'm sure that even here in SSC, other filipinos has no clue how apparently Most Cebuanos hated the tagalogs and that Manila equates to tagalog people only... I know one thing for sure in SSC philippines alone, I have never seen a tagalog or other filipinos attack other filipinos just because they are cebuano or bisaya, and branded them as a much better english speaker than any other else as if their english is 1000% perfect with no Philipine accent whatsoever.. sigh Somehow I need to apologize but I just need to vent out some... I have not been insulted by a bisaya (in a private message) before for being a tagalog ever in my life but then again, somehow, that One particular person is a "butangerang bayot" and does not represent the bisaya or illonnga in general LOL

Kompanyerong @mwg, i think i made mention in my previous post that in the end, most of you will think that we, the Cebuanos, are annoying, stubborn and trouble-makers...And there you go...the magic word is already spoken out by an "unbiased" mouth.

And for few times already, i mentioned also that here in SSC, you can not see any "words" coming out from Manilogs towards Cebuano, but come on Neo, let's get real here...Get out of SSC and see the reality...And reality matters most.

Get out of The Matrix and follow the white rabbit.... :)

Don't misunderstand this as a personal attack to you...I am not into that...It just so happen that you are on the other side...I understand all of your points here...But the thing here, is that, is there an effort of the side of the Manilogs to help cure this rift?

[Wind Shear]

As long as there are insults and slurs against Cebuanos (or whatever ethnic group in Philippine Islands), the resentments won't and will never end.

Why? Cebuanos are fiercely independent and extremely proud of their culture.

[Askal82]

Of course, Manilogs are not guilty of stereotyping Bisaya as low-class citizens... :)...

If you're going to tear down a particular stereotype, make sure you have the facts at hand instead of fighting it with another stereotype. :D

If a Tagalog would relegate the roles of Bisayans as katulong in most movies, then you retaliate by saying that Gokong Wei is a Cebuano airline magnate who is eating up Tan's market share in the airline industry or Manny Pacquiao represented the country's honor in world boxing or cite a factual major contribution of the Bisayan peoples in shaping up the Philippine culture, economy and history.

You'll get your points across far and wide and mos importantly, the respect.

[Sleepwalker]

If you're going to tear down a particular stereotype, make sure you have the facts at hand instead of fighting it with another stereotype. :D

If a Tagalog would relegate the roles of Bisayans as katulong in most movies, then you retaliate by saying that Gokong Wei is a Cebuano airline magnate who is eating up Tan's market share in the airline industry or Manny Pacquiao represented the country's honor in world boxing or cite a factual major contribution of the Bisayan peoples in shaping up the Philippine culture, economy and history.

You'll get your points across far and wide and mos importantly, the respect.

I got your drift...But i am sure, it is not stereotyping when we speak about Manilogs' not-so-good treatment towards non-Manilogs.

[kiretoce]

If you folks are hell-bent on pointing out stereotypes, may I suggest that you use this thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=534082) already in existence, and leave this thread for those that want to converse in Cebuano, or maybe teach those that wants to learn Cebuano, which was the main intent of having language threads here on SSC to begin with. A word of warning though, that other thread is not a platform for bashing or pitting one group against another, its for intelligent and informative, and constructive discussions as to why such stereotypes exist in our society and how we can prevent ourselves and others from using these harmful and hateful brands.

[Sinjin P.]

I got your drift...But i am sure, it is not stereotyping when we speak about Manilogs' not-so-good treatment towards non-Manilogs.

Basin kamo pero wa g'yud ko kasuway anang inyong gipang-ingon nga maangas ang mga Tagalog towards mga Bisaya. Heck, mas hilas pa gani ang ubang Bisaya. :ohno:

[Sleepwalker]

Basin kamo pero wa g'yud ko kasuway anang inyong gipang-ingon nga maangas ang mga Tagalog towards mga Bisaya. Heck, mas hilas pa gani ang ubang Bisaya. :ohno:

Daghan hilas sa kalibutan, Bai Sinj...Possible ako hilas ko para sa uban...Possible pud ikaw hilas pud ka para sa uban.

Ok ra nang maghilas-hilas, basta dili lang makatamak or makapasakit sa uban... :)

Pero kung atong masubay, ubay ubay pud mga taga-Sugbo nga nakatilaw ani nga experience...And naa pay mga media nga wa sad pugong-pugong...If you happen nga wala ka ani ka-experience, then good for you... :)