The first residential tower at Village Docklands will start construction in start Feb 2003 and will be finished late 2004. Kouk holds deposits for half the apartments which go at about $300,000; they are aiming at the lower-end and professional types. Work on the goods shed should start mid next year, and be finished before the residential.

The overall precinct will have 4 residential towers and one office tower, I recall the original plans had designs for two medium sized office towers (20,000 sq m to 30,000 sq m) fronting Collins. Hopefully this translates into one larger office tower next to Shangri-La. Regardless Kuok group are in Melbourne this week to talk up their development according to today's Age.

One more thing, Kuok do agree Melbourne has an oversupply of apartments but at the upper end of the market. Funny Far Eastern (Royal Domain) and Mirvac think there is an oversupply in the lower end of the market; talk about a self-fulfilling argument!

Finally did anyone hear the property segment on 3AW radio yesterday, the man from Fletcher real estate gave Central Equity a big spray on radio. Without naming names he talked of a developer who specializes in apartments, advertises heavily and has information nights
He described the methods/tricks used to pressurize customers into buying overpriced apartments, and in turn build commission housing (using Southbank as an example). It was interesting and refreshing to see we aren't the only people who think CE are shockers. The advertising on the AFR webpage/Age webpage have apartments in City Tower starting from $399,000-rip-off!!

Well.. great to hear about someone else getting stuck into CE!! Their boss.. Eddie Kutner (gee lucky I spelled it right! :D ) is a money grabbing you know what..

But good to hear Village Docklands has *apparently* sold well - always doubtful these days over those claims!..

As for oversupply at top end - I actually agree with Kuok!! When QV was released it was very affordable for a tower of its type and it sold in days.. the apartments selling now are all just overpriced.. if they put for example Savoy Plaza on Spencer St to sale at $500k starting price - forget it!! But if they started selling 1 bedders for $220-250k upwards.. they'd go in a pinch..

Young people (who can afford $220k but not $500k) *want* to buy and move into the city in droves, but they are being priced out.. thats where hopefully the market will get a reality check.. I'd rather see a 180m apartment tower go up sold cheaper than not at all!!

Its all about how much profit do they want? Eddie Kutner has been masterful of jacking up the prices carefuly but steadily over the years to the point where now his crap is just as expensive (and profitable) as other far better towers..

:rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:

OK yes I'll stop my rant now!!

hah re:bagging of CE.

All this talk of over-supply and here we have the Conder due to be released very soon, Mirvac's YE6 and Victoria Point - something's obviously driving the demand - anyhow we dont want another whinging thread. :guns1:

But has anyone formed an opinion on the Melbourne Metro Strategy and how it may affect any major downturn - if there is one ?

As I posted in another thread, the Govt is about to whisk an interim law through the PArliament halting anymore sub-divisions on the fringe (grollo - looks like the strategy might have teeth after all :D) so once all the blocks which have been sub-divided have all sold, that'll be it (for now) - could drive even more rent-capable / buying towards the city :? or ?

tays

[size=1]Originally posted by A-brain

Young people (who can afford $220k but not $500k) *want* to buy and move into the city in droves, but they are being priced out.. thats where hopefully the market will get a reality check.. I'd rather see a 180m apartment tower go up sold cheaper than not at all!!



I agree totally. Why limit the cities growth by pricing so many out of the market. I'm not sure what the minimum figures are so that ordinary people can get in and developers still make money but something should be looked at.

Maybe it's just not ecomically feasable to have such low entry prices and still make money. But it's a nice idea. :)

Maybe people are afraid of creating future 'slums' as some of the current (no names) towers are called.

Cheers.

Well.. its a good line of thinking sirbugs.. but the fact is 3-4 years ago you *could* buy decent apartments in a nice tower for $200-300k.. heck even Eureka started at $275k for a 1-bedder when it went on sale.. pricey 2 years ago but peanuts now for Southbank!!

And I'm sure construction costs havent gone up *that* much.. I'm no economics expert but if its costs roughly the same to build it.. well they'll make money either way.. Yes the land value would have increased as well but they coudl still make their money back..

Thats where I think if the land to build a tower is owned by the state they should give it off cheaply to promote construction for a lower price..

I'm no economics expert but still.. thats why I think theyre kidding themselves with Royal Domain going for average $1million.. they are grabbing for bucks..

Talking about the CBD and land/price issues, check the following:

NOTE TO ALL MELBOURNE FORUM MEMBERS

A special feature to be published in the AGE Thurs 31st Oct within the Business section.

Topic: Commercial/Industrial Real Estate

focusing on

*Regional growth areas
*Commercial growth areas
*CBD market wrap and individual profiles of all new and impending CBD commercial/office developments
*CBD forecasts and future plans ect. 2003 and beyond.

This could be a pissy liftout or knowing the AGE, a very in-depth guide which should hopefully reveal a few secrets/designs/plans for the CBD and surrounds.

Sounds promising-worth the buy!

just correcting myself, City Tower is selling from $379,000. Still a load of money for the cheapest apartments.

you'll have to remind me (and probably other people) closer to the date ;)

were The Age advertising their own specials or something ??

tays

I read a similar article today in the Australian, looks promising...but Im hoping as well that they dont turn out slums of the future!!!
Thanx guys,
Matt:)

hmmm, only Commercial and Industrial -- we could use some insight into the Residential market especially with all the claims of a downtown.

good find silvermb, really interested in seeing when they believe the commercial market may pick up, feels like an eternity since the last office proposal was submitted ;)

"I'm no economics expert but still.. thats why I think theyre kidding themselves with Royal Domain going for average $1million.. they are grabbing for bucks.." -- Adrian, that's the power of marketing for you, look at all the ads they have on TV, radio, paper... no wonder they can pull the big money in

and good news about the residential tower, that part of Docklands is really starting to take shape now, hard to believe how it will look in a few years time after being down there a month ago

Due to continue raising construction costs and appreciation in land values which unfortunately makes it extremely difficult for anyone to sell apartments under $200k.
Also by young people wanting to move into the city by droves and not able to afford purchasing will not cause any market have a reality check. Properties will still be bought in the cheaper outer suburbs.
The other problem arises from the growing spending trend of young people today with a "must have everything now" attitude.
The trend also shows that the more they earn - the more they spend.
So remember there are lots of people who have already priced themselves out.
The cheaper and most popular apartments being sold at the moment are the purposely built student accomodation units which range in price from $180k - $297k. You will also get a rental guarantee for 2 to 3 years at 6%-8% return. There is also like a 4 year waiting list to rent these out at the moment. But these are not to be lived in.

In regards to the following comment -
"Thats where I think if the land to build a tower is owned by the state they should give it off cheaply to promote construction for a lower price.."
Why would they want to do this? The state is in business, remember that, they will want to make as much $$$ as possible out of it

The next comment made -
"I'm no economics expert but still.. thats why I think theyre kidding themselves with Royal Domain going for average $1million.. they are grabbing for bucks.."
They are not kidding themeselves with this at all. You need to compare what they are offering.
They are offering top quality apartments of an average size of 27 squares. We are talking big apartments here - compared to the norm this is almost 3 apartments in one.
These apartments will obviously be purchased by owner/occupiers and will go quick.

Why are people still making remarks in regards to Southbank being a future slump?
Let me tell you if the quality of the construction of a certain company in that area continued I would agree with you all the way - however this company is now using much better quality materials and this is where the higher asking prices have come from - but in my opinion TOO HIGH!!!!!!!
Other developments that will take place in this area by other companies will improve the value and look of the overall area, but this will take a bit of time.

Well I accept everything you say PI.. you know the business more than I ..

However.. I still think the RDT guys are kidding themselves If they think they will *sell* all those apartments. I'm not arguing that they'll be big and worth what they cost.. and that the building will be quality..

But I dont think theres any way they can sell that many at that price in the current climate.. they maybe should have thought about making more apartments more affordable..

I'll bet $10 right now RDT doesnt go under construction following this marketing campaign.. ala Imperium..

The higher land value goes, so will the quality of the projects, thats why about 5 years ago CE managed to snap up prime real estate and build boxes, they can't do the same anymore thats why there building on City RD now

Originally posted by A-brain
I'll bet $10 right now RDT doesnt go under construction following this marketing campaign.. ala Imperium..

I'll take that bet. :)

Cheers.

Hi A-brain,


I'm not sure how many apartments will be available at RDT, but they are targeting a different type of investor and owner occupier. You will see a big demand for them at the beginning.
In regards to your bet, I'm not willing to bet against you on that one.
You could be right - too early to tell.

silvermb:

we should have gone around to the RDT display suite yesterday and uhhh conducted some further research ;)

tays

It appears that work has commenced at the northern end of the southern end of the historic Railway Shed at the Docklands. It appears that foundations have been set in the ground ready to link the building up to Collins Street.

Does anyone know how tall the first tower will be? Any plans? All I've seen is that one rendering and I think someone said that was just an initial diagram before any actual design work had been done.

only this:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~tayser/vd.JPG

not very tall, but it's a good "starter" to get things moving along.

tays

Yeah as someone put it nicely in another thread - quality is the key here and this is a nice quality design with a lot of *bulk* about it too.. suits the fresh new modern look of Docklands very nicely..

Hope it starts soon..

Great to see that they are starting the construction down there.... soon!

Does anyone have word on Dock 5 and vic point? Are they still starting constuction early this year as wel?? I heard they were both May this year!

should really pay Lend Lease another visit actually.

Supposedly there's some event / festival on at NewQuay today and tomorrow, they might be a little more "nicer to talk to" about these sorts of things ;)

Vic Point's got its sales, no need to worry about that, it's going ahead - just a matter of "when"

tays

<table cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=98% class="quoteBox">
<td align=left valign=center> <smallfont> <b>Quote</B> <I>originally posted by tayser </i></b> </smallfont> </td>
<tr><td align=left valign=top>should really pay Lend Lease another visit actually.

Supposedly there's some event / festival on at NewQuay today and tomorrow, they might be a little more "nicer to talk to" about these sorts of things ;)

Vic Point's got its sales, no need to worry about that, it's going ahead - just a matter of "when"

tays</td></tr>
</table>

Great that Vic point has the sales.. well i was there last year and the dude said constuction would start May if they had enough sales by december or something....but who knows in this constuction industry!

Coming in a bit late to this, given that CE do all their own marketing and probably handle most of the resales through MICM you would hardly expect a real estate agent to be their greatest supporter. My experience when I bought my City Point unit and when I've looked round their display centres in Melbourne is that the one thing I cannot accuse them of is high pressure selling: it's been a question "take your time, look around, and if you want to discuss it further, I'm here" - but of course it may be that my body language shows that the hard sell would be counterproductive in my case. The other area where they score IMO, as compared with Australand and Mirvac anyway, is the information they put on their website - to me the fact that they were prepared to list everything they've built in the last ten years did inspire some confidence.

I am interested to know to what extent their units are or are not overpriced. My solicitor did say "you realise that you are buying a Ford not a BMW" which is my perception, but when I read of Docklands developers talking about average prices around A$1m, the low 400's for a 2-bed doesn't seem unreasonable, and if there are better and cheaper city centre units available I've missed them.

The rest of village docklands is probably going to be put on hold now don't you think? with the down turn in apartments?

Well I don;'t think Kuok planned to go out with guns blazing and sell sell sell.

Word on the graevine, stage one which is going ahead, has many many high-profile people who've bought there, same with Tribecca over the other side of the CBD.

The Hotel (180+m) is years away anyhow!

as per the timeline on www.villagedocklands.com.au the 2nd residential tower is in actual fact Stage 5 of the whole project (3rd res = Stage 6), they're going to do this first residential, the old rail sheds and a promenade before going to the 2nd - at least 2 years away (which would coincide with the latest prediction of the "flat" period of 18 months.)

cheers!

tays

hmmm...sounds a little promising then! I soppose i am a bit egar for the whole area to be built on now!! hehe i have to tell my self to be patiant!

I think we're all in the same boat :D :D

tays

Sounds like a very good idea anyway..

They realise they're not gonna sell a shitload of units in the next year or two .. and with the downturn people are particularly wary now of buying into Docklands which still lacks infrastructure and attractions ..

But the new market would fix those problems and make money for them as well.. I think it would be a good success as I reckon people are sick of the hassle of getting to Vic Market (I know I am) ..

"Capital Gain" column in Business section of The Age today announces "sod-turning ceremony for its 29 storey V1 tower on August 13"; still only at the 70% sale stage.Contract close to signing, with the column speculating on Multiplex (again!).
Interesting item about rumours on ANZ moves to consolidate several offices into one 90,000 sq.m. development; now THAT would fill a landmark tower, but with the current fashion being NAB Docklands style, I guess we shouldn't get our hopes up too much.

Aye, however, I think the 90,000 sqm figure was the original one they had a year or so ago (I've heard silvermb quote it before) - also speculation that ANZ still didnt have enough (basically the same story as the article in today's Age)

The Bendigo Bank also looks certain (according to the article) to take 6500 sqm adjacent to Victoria Point as well.

THe Commercial side of things certainly hasnt died in the arse yet!

Ad in today's Saturday Age:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~tayser/villagedad.jpg

nothing new, just a shameless bump of this thread.

:)

Uuuuurggh!
Tays I can't see any of your pics today!

one for the history books, phase one of village docklands with Dean's Spanish steps being poured
http://home.iprimus.com.au/revlis81/vdock_20030401.JPG

last week, looks like work on phase two/food market is underway
http://home.iprimus.com.au/revlis81/vdock_20030722.JPG

scrolled through the thread, couldn't find it, when was/is the first sod turning ceremony that was mentioned a few weeks ago?

Originally posted by Garmatt
Uuuuurggh!
Tays I can't see any of your pics today!

dont worry, it's just an Age advertisement from yesterday which has a "Over 70% sold" label.

Originally posted by silvermb
scrolled through the thread, couldn't find it, when was/is the first sod turning ceremony that was mentioned a few weeks ago?

wasn't it supposed to May / June ?

Originally posted by tayser
dont worry, it's just an Age advertisement from yesterday which has a "Over 70% sold" label.



was
n't it supposed to May / June ?
August 13th is sod-turning ceremony.

Originally posted by redden
August 13th is sod-turning ceremony.

I hereby designate you, redden, as OzScraper's liaison to the Village Docklands development.

:guns1: :)

thanks!

tays

Tower 1 is up and running as is clearance of the whole site

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/510/483vdock_20030901.jpg

they've got the piling rig ready but i think they need to get rid of the shed over the site before it fires up
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/510/483vdock_20030901_4.jpg

good, good and more good.

The long-term derelict Batman's Hill is officially no more.

:guns1:

Originally posted by silvermb
The first residential tower at Village Docklands will start construction in start Feb 2003 and will be finished late 2004. Kouk holds deposits for half the apartments which go at about $300,000; they are aiming at the lower-end and professional types. Work on the goods shed should start mid next year, and be finished before the residential.

The overall precinct will have 4 residential towers and one office tower, I recall the original plans had designs for two medium sized office towers (20,000 sq m to 30,000 sq m) fronting Collins. Hopefully this translates into one larger office tower next to Shangri-La. Regardless Kuok group are in Melbourne this week to talk up their development according to today's Age.

One more thing, Kuok do agree Melbourne has an oversupply of apartments but at the upper end of the market. Funny Far Eastern (Royal Domain) and Mirvac think there is an oversupply in the lower end of the market; talk about a self-fulfilling argument!

Finally did anyone hear the property segment on 3AW radio yesterday, the man from Fletcher real estate gave Central Equity a big spray on radio. Without naming names he talked of a developer who specializes in apartments, advertises heavily and has information nights
He described the methods/tricks used to pressurize customers into buying overpriced apartments, and in turn build commission housing (using Southbank as an example). It was interesting and refreshing to see we aren't the only people who think CE are shockers. The advertising on the AFR webpage/Age webpage have apartments in City Tower starting from $399,000-rip-off!!

How long has Eddie been at the helm ?
Because if you look at the history of their developments, they started with some quality high-end stuff with post-modern designs at 'reasonable' prices. Perhaps they have just got too greedy now ...

The Premier turned the first sod at a ceremony at village docklands today to offically start construction of the V1 tower

Cheers

Dean - Melbourne

PREMIER MARKS START OF $700M DOCKLANDS ‘VILLAGE'


Date: 2 September 2003

The Premier, Steve Bracks, today took part in a ‘groundbreaking’ ceremony to mark the start of construction on Docklands’ newest development site, ‘Villagedocklands’.

The $700 million project, on a three hectare site at Batman’s Hill Precinct, includes residential apartments – 80 per cent sold – a commercial tower, hotel and a gourmet food market.

The precinct is being developed by the Asian-based Kuok Group.

Mr Bracks said ‘Villagedocklands’ would contribute to the Victorian economy in many ways – initially, through around 500 jobs during construction, and then, once developed, becoming a thriving center of activity for Docklands.

‘The Kuok Group’s international investment in Docklands is a stamp of confidence on the development, and on Melbourne and Victoria as a whole,’ Mr Bracks said.

‘The Government is very pleased to have secured the Kuok Group’s first project in Melbourne.

‘‘Villagedocklands’ will make a major contribution not only to Melbourne Docklands but also to the State’s broader urban development objectives.’

Mr Bracks said the State’s $38 million investment in the Collins Street bridge extension, which bounds part of ‘Villagedocklands’, stimulated the Kuok Group’s investment, as well as investment throughout Melbourne Docklands.

‘The Kuok development includes the redevelopment of the historic Goods Shed No 2 as Melbourne’s newest marketplace on Collins Street,’ Mr Bracks said.

‘The public will also be able to enjoy restaurants, cafes and retail shopping on ‘The Village Street’, which will run between the Goods Shed and the rest of the development.’

‘Villagedocklands’ will not only help meet Melbourne’s growing demand for housing, but will contribute to the Melbourne Docklands’ evolution as a hub of cosmopolitan, urban living.

The project will help accommodate the 25,000 workers, 20,000 residents and 55,000 average daily visitors to Docklands when it is largely complete in 12-15 years.

Melbourne Docklands is being developed by VicUrban, the Government’s sustainable urban development agency.

It has $2.3 billion of private sector investment completed or under construction, $7.3 billion in signed contracts with the private sector with an estimated final investment value of at least $8 billion.

There was an article featuring Village Docklands and in particular V1 in yesterday's Age Domain. It said that Marchese, the Sydney architects, were asked by Robbie Kuok to include some feng shui principles. They will also have rooftop oasises that will be linked by wooden bridges between rooftops, or something like that. And lots of louvred wintergardens rather than open balconies.

Originally posted by Blabbyboy
.....lots of louvred wintergardens rather than open balconies.
Sounds like Aurora, Sydney. WOW. But it will never be as good as Aurora.

bump so it wont get deleted.

Not too much happening

But everything as been demolished except for one of the open shed and the Heritage one, which they are keeping for the market.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/lukekasper/MelbourneNov/DSC00039.JPG

Yeah its great to see V1 tower starting up.. Kuok are currently in the process of getting the 2nd resi tower designed and it will be called..... wait 4 it.... V2... lol

with more than 80% sold in V1 they'll probably market V2 in 6-12 months time

Cheers

Dean - Melbourne

Excuse the weather, but anyhow, gives you a great idea on the size of the site:

http://metropolis.tayser.net/misc/vd2011031.jpg

^^ tiny compared to the big "Village" Docklands picture ;)

One of the renders from Marchese + Partners (http://www.marchesepartners.com.au)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/510/379villagedocklands1.jpg

I love the dedicated tramway reserve there. Village Docklands looks pretty conservative at the moment, but their talk of elevated walkways, night market and the hotel is interesting. There's more than a hint of the Asian mega-developments in this. In fact, this is all old hat for Kuok.

Down there the other day..can't get my picures up but there are walls starting to show..ie Concrete walls and also possible a core but I am not sure.

Also get ready for another crane on the docklands landscape it will be up soon.

The site is going ahead.. crane to appear soon


http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/lukekasper/villagecrane.jpg

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/lukekasper/Village1.jpg


http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/lukekasper/village2.jpg

Inside the shed that will be the retail area..

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/lukekasper/inside%20shed.jpg

up on the perch today

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/510/483v1.jpg

Vistied the Village docklands display and spoke to the sales consultant about the project. V1 tower is now more than 80% sold and of course is UC and they would be releasing Tower 2 in about 3 months.(good news)

it will be about 50% TALLER than V1 tower and will be located next door and to the right.

Cheers

Dean - Melbourne

on to the 2nd level now:

http://metropolis.tayser.net/projects/docklands/batmanshill/villagedocklands2603041.jpg

Interesting strange old tower we got going on here!

Totally different to typical Melbourne construction - no core, one of those T-Bar cranes (forgotten the proper name) .. If it was steed framed it would be straight out of America..

Just slipped under the radar this one - but really looking forward to seeing if ends up as schmick as the renders..

The T crane id called a 'Hammerhead Electric Crane'

Is this the site of the Shangri La as well? With so much going on around Melbourne I've forgotten about the Shangri La, Savoy and Prima. Any word on these 3? Will the start before the next cycle?

I would've thought the owners of Shangri La might've wanted to have the hotel open for the Commonwealth Games.

V.Good question dyna - but yes all 3 would seem to be consigned to the 'Next Cycle' heap ..

I think Docklands as a whole is currently in the 1st major cycle of construction - with more or less 1 key development currently U/C in all major precincts.

At the end of this 18-24 month construction period there is currently nothing lined up after that - but Docklands importantly will feel much more alive at the end of it. So hopefully I'm assuming the next cycle will kick on after that.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/Dwight.Veenman/MyPics/20040226VDsmall.jpg

guessing that would be the old photo through the rialto observation lense trick?

edit: should have read the vic point thread first

last week. i love the first pic, considering i remember standing in the same spot not so long ago with only Telstra Dome in view. give it five years - marvellous density!

http://home.iprimus.com.au/revlis81/vd.JPG

Is this the site of the Shangri La as well? With so much going on around Melbourne I've forgotten about the Shangri La, Savoy and Prima. Any word on these 3? Will the start before the next cycle?

I would've thought the owners of Shangri La might've wanted to have the hotel open for the Commonwealth Games.
Ive chatted numerous times over past 12 months with prima architects and they have told me that PRIMA is set to start in 2007/8.
not sure about others, probably 2010ish? this is when Melbournes next construction cycle will commence.

PRIMA THREAD HERE (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=25093)

____________

Shangri-La is slated later on, bout midway through Docklands full construction cycle (2007 - 2009)

www.villagedocklands.com.au

A few weeks ago I noticed that they are building a road on the city (east) side of the Railway Shed. I wonder what for and who will use it and how you will access it!

Does anyone else think that it woudl be great to see a 10 - 20 storey residential tower on top of that white car park (see the middle pic above) in the background next to the Police HQ?

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/lukekasper/village.jpg

There doesn't seem to be a core with this project, but I am certain there is one! Anyway, the floor plates are still at level 5/6 as shown above.

Hi,

I am currently building a portal for docklands, it will have lots of information about docklands, the buildings, businesses, attractions etc, etc.

We are looking for the following.

1. Suggestions to what you would like in the site.
2. People to contribute to the site articles / photos / stats.
3. Anything else you might think will help.

Here's what we have on the drawing board.

1. Forum
2. Free Web Based email for residents
3. Local facilities, shops, schools
4. Events
5. News
6. Monthly News Letter
7. Surveys
8. Competitions

I've read lots of forums and this one has lots of great content and some top photos. Obviously you would need to be the owner of the content.

Regards
Plucka

Thsi project is sooooo sloooow. They are taking sooo long!!!
http://img64.exs.cx/img64/8712/Batman.jpg

they must have listened to A-brain and made themselves a core box, it was always there but now the floors are essentially generic in design the outer box has been put on. first resi floor taking shape, remember only about 10% of the visible facade is glass, the remainder louveres over glass similar to Marquise. Fascinating to see if it will stack up against Marquise?

http://silvermb.thehoddlegrid.net/vd200408.jpg

This is one building that is looking decidedly smaller and less impressive in real life than in the renders - so so far I'm unimpressed, but happy to be disproven..

I am suprised by the relatively low number of new Docklands buildings with underground carparking ... do they think that parking there won't be just as problematic as the rest of the city ? Or are they trying to discourage cars altogether.

I am suprised by the relatively low number of new Docklands buildings with underground carparking ... do they think that parking there won't be just as problematic as the rest of the city ? Or are they trying to discourage cars altogether.

Erm perhaps a little thing called 'Coode Island Silt' ??

In otherwords there is nothing but slush underneath for foundations - you heard how Yarras Edge III had to be re-piled halfway through construction because they didn't hit bedrock..

I'd say it would be exhorbitantly expensive to put a big multilevel underground carpark compared to say QV or Melbourne Central site..

Hence the reason FWP & Eureka also have completely above ground carparks..

Erm perhaps a little thing called 'Coode Island Silt' ??

In otherwords there is nothing but slush underneath for foundations

Exzacchery, remember Colonial went down 62m or something like that before the piles would stay put, the whole of docklands is a prime example of non productive agricultural wasteland. :) perfect for highrise :)

shite ground still doesn't excuse excessive amounts of car parking (where ever it may be) in the first place though.

Car parking at Telstradome is $8 a day, which is cheap. It costs over $9 to catch the train into the city if you buy the ticket and then you have to walk miles. Lucky we have work trucks with park anywhere flashing lights. The thing about city driving is that once all the infrastructure around Docklands and the city is finished, chuck the keys into a bowl and swing all over the city 'cause it will all be too easy. But for now, with multiple destinations during the day, save the train for the suits.
You know the good thing about being a dirty old bolt doer er upper construction worker on peak hour trains, you always get heaps of room 'cause no one wants to sit next to you and get their gucci dirty!!!
Go the EMD Bulldog S Series, S 315, i want to see you haul a tower crane out of Spencer Street station, all little kids dreams come true?????

you've missed the point.

docklands is supposed to be the pinnacle of sustainable living: cars are sometimes unavoidable, but having massive amounts of car parking for whatever reason, marketting it with these residential developments and promoting car usage in order to get to docklands (once it's nearing completion) goes against that very principle.

Tayser, I'm agreeing if you read what I said. Currently, with most of the western side of the city set up as the universe's largest construction site, access around this area is awkward to say the least. The main rail station is upside down and the real need for public transport into docklands is yet to arise. Unfortunatly, the beast that is construction doesn't allow much public transport, especially for the blokes that have to travel from site to site, day to day. When I am fortunate to be working on the same job for a few days, I always catch the train because it is too easy and I can have a few beers after work. Recently we pulled a crane down in town, which was a week or so job and I enjoyed the extra sleep on the train and the anominity of being a not .05 commuter on the way home. Public Transport is under-rated once it is set up right, but the biggest temporary problem Melburnians have with public transport right now today is that a 1/4 of the city is not completed, covered in flashing lights and idiot tape which changes everyday, so who can blame the poor commuter for taking the too easy Campese. Traffic sucks harder than hoover but if you are gaurenteed of a parking spot for less than the cost a train ticket, I sympathise with the every day commuter.
Once Docklands is more of a done deal, I think parking will be non-existant, if not as rare as rocking horse shit. It should be too, but we have to let the joint get built first. The shopping precints at Spencer st and across from condor/railyards should hopefully be as we speak organising their delivery routes like the current coles/woolies home delivery services, so no need for car locally. Maybe a new generation of vespa/ct110 revheads will be born!

Yeah what are you whinging about tays ??? None of the Docklands towers appears to have *excessive* amounts of carparking - unlike your pet-hate RDT .. and as we've just explained it's simply not feasible to put said carparking underground ??!!

And at the same time the key public transport gateway to Docklands is undergoing a massive renovation !!! I for one would be *far* more motivated to train it to Docklands with the new SCT than with the old SST

Yes A-brain, whatever you say A-brain.

Favco: you missed my point in that you're talking about the current state of affairs and I'm talking about what -should- be in Docklands in 10 years once all the tradies and construction workers are gone, that's all.

Yes A-brain, whatever you say A-brain.


Sheesh whatever.. I'm just asking where your's evidence for 'massive amounts of carparking in Docklands' other than standard amounts per unit ??

Every typical suburban home has a 2-car garage - is that not promoting car usage ?? Imagine if every apartment in the CBD had at least 2 spaces ?? I don't see any difference. If anything the cost of CBD carparks make's many people turn away from using cars... I know a few people that live in the CBD in my building and others that don't have a car.

I think the point that Mr T is trying to make is that the Docklands is serviced by so much public transport that there shouldn't be as much car paking available as there is at the moment.

I don't think the public should be allowed to park their cars in open spaces at the Docklands when they attend the football. I also don't understand why peopel drive to the MCG either! The only parking that shoudl be availabel at both venues shodul be under the stadium and thats it! No parking in public parks and no public parking in "soon to be developed" sites at the Docklands. If you encourage people to drive to the Tesltra Dome, then when the whole area is redeveloped, they will still expect to park there, even though there is a great train station only 5 minute walk away!

Actually Tays Docklands has maximum car parking ratios compared to the normal planning schemes minimum car parking requirments.

Residential development can have a maximum of two car spaces per apartment (usually a minimum of two spaces for 2 or more bedroom dwellings).

Office development can have a maximum of 1.5 spaces per 100 square mtres (normally 3.5 spaces)

Retail development can have a maximum of 1 space per 100 square metres (normally 8 spaces per 100 square metres).

That is great news Grollo. If only they would apply that to other suburban areas such as South Yarra/Prahran/Windsor, Richmond, Collingwood, Fitzroy, Carlton, North Melbourne, South Melbourne, Port Melbourne, St Kilda, Doncaster, Moorabbin, Frankston, Dandenong, Footscray etc...

they have maximum so when docklands bulks up they will make a killing in parking fees

http://img90.exs.cx/img90/350/Docklandspano2.jpg

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz.

^ I wholeheartedly agree - I won't get excited bout this precinct until something stirs with regards to Shangri-La (2008), I mean, who wants to get excited bout a development that's full of Channel 9 'celebrities' as Lavinia Nixon put it in that showcase show CH9 did a year or so ago :lol:

I could get excited about Narre Warren if Livinia was there ;

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/2255/101912255dl1096598368.jpg

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/2255/101912255cl1096598364.jpg

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/2255/101912255ml1096598370.jpg

Sweetamundo! - let's hope these mini towers end up looking half as good in the concrete

These pics look great Grollo, but I don't get the perspective. Am I slow?

The pics show all six towers (the tower U/C is the one which is detailed). The pics show the podium level gardens for each of the towers which will be linked by skybridges.

It's noice, it's un-uwe-sual.

reminds me of a beautified Caulfield monash actually (the main floor which sees most traffic across the campus is one above ground - just hope this doesnt take away from street level at VD!)

:)

yeah, i read about those skybridges, they seem like a cool idea. Fountains, they need them in the dock part, the water, there was a thread about the worlds talles and longest, both in china, the long one looked cool, and it was in a lake, a line of smallish water jets making a cool pattern.

It's noice, it's un-uwe-sual.

reminds me of a beautified Caulfield monash actually (the main floor which sees most traffic across the campus is one above ground - just hope this doesnt take away from street level at VD!)

:)

Beautified? Try overhauled :lol:. But yeah, is kind of reminicent of that setup...

stu

http://img27.exs.cx/img27/5817/PA162583.jpg

Starting to have an impact. Indifferent to this one.

as I said in the NewQuay thread, at last a street looks like it's actually getting developed!

awesome shot hacks.

Hopefully these streets tays speaks of will actually have some sort of feeling in them. Walking around Southbank the other day it felt like a ghost town. It is not a welcoming feeling there, it just doesn't feel right. Hopefully it will be fixed, but hopefully docklands will not make the same mistake.

How tall is village docklands meant to be?

20 (the tower U/C right now) to roughly 50 levels through 6 towers. the 50 levels is an approx 170-180m Shangri-La hotel that's supposedly going to start around 2008.

Will the sky-bridges that they rave about on their website be connected to Shangri-la? It seems a bit odd to connect apartments to a hotel, but isn't it one of the four buildings going on the block?

This building looks really longly at the moment :( sort of like telstra dome all those years ago

^^^

Yeah , as far as i am aware, the skybrige will connect to the hotel precinct. Well, thats what the render indicated when i looked at it.

Cheers

Lozza :bowtie:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/lukekasper/Villagecol.jpg

I have a question, I hope someone can answer, isn't the Giant Ferris wheel going to be constructed in village docklands? I cant remember?

Waterfront City (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=6764)

ok thank you.

I think that the Skybridges connect all the buildings's "Resort Style" podium facilities, so they can share a tennis court, pool etc and not ever touch the dirty common folk! It is a very 1960's bad idea though, I hate skybridges...buildings should connect with the street MORE, not less

The best thing about this building is the "wintergarden" louvered balconies. For the area, it will be one of the few towers in the area where you can actually use the balcony all of the time. I have been told that if you want furniture on your balcony on Dock5, it has to be bolted down!

A reminder of "Dreamy Dreamland in the Sky"

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/510/379villagedocklands1.jpg

hey kasper, what tower is that? its currently 15 levels,how high is it planned?
hey muse, whats that render?
guys why dont you label posts? sorry but im trying to get familiar with village.
cheers

Village Docklands IS confusing.

Anyway, the b/w render is part of the concept for Village Docklands that we have been referring to. See a little more from "habitat" on the menu and then "skybridges" (updated graphic) and "oasis".

http://www.villagedocklands.com

hey kasper, what tower is that? its currently 15 levels,how high is it planned?
hey muse, whats that render?
guys why dont you label posts? sorry but im trying to get familiar with village.
cheers

Sorry Cul! This tower is the first residential tower called V1 (i think!). I am not 100% sure on how high it is i think 19 levels? Not very high. I don't think it has too far to go.

Here is a pic showing the building from above.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/lukekasper/Villageril.jpg

Rumour mill: one of my sources tell me that the Kwok group wants to pull out of this project as soon as possible - which is probably tuff but they sorta wish they didn't go into it...i'm purely speculating here, please don't hold me to it.

Probably because it's gonna take for ever for them to finish the bloody thing and hence get returns on it.

I think the construction of the new Convention Centre just across the river will spur this development on. Its a great location and Shangri-La are keen on Melbourne. In Vancouver a new Shangri-La opens in 2008 and Melbourne was slated to open the same year. The Vancouver hotel will be the cities tallest at around 60 levels with the hotel taking the bottom (whats with that?) 10. Wonder if Melbourne will be a boutique hotel with apartments using shared facilities like Vancouver or something big scale like the Grand Hyatt. With Hilton and Sheraton both looking at building within spitting range I'd bet small scale like Vancouver.

Sheraton towers has recently been renamed the Langham Hotel

I have seen the proposals for the Shangri-La hotel at nearly 180m tall I think. Is it still going ahead and when? What is happening with the Melbourne Convention Centre? It's all gone quiet, I did notice it's proposed site in the 2005 Melway Street Directory.

that 180m marchese tower would look f*cking super duper on that site. Anyway the Melb city hotel market is not looking good from the reports ive read ( the opening of crown 2 didnt help it ) and isnt forecast to recover for a few yrs so it might be a couple of yrs before anything more is built.

Dr. Dan, wonder how Langham will do? - watch it drop to four star! Sheraton have their eyes on the convention centre now or west of King Street. They want to go 'corporate' in Melbourne which means a west of King hotel is likely. Hilton is suppose to go somewhere near Southern Cross Station but seems they're keeping East Melbourne. Things will heat up with the convention centre later this year with the two bids being released to the public. I was reading about the two bids on either the Office of Major Projects or City Council site. Convention Industry is big business in Melbourne and its well known internationally for being up there with the biggies. Think the vacany rate among the business hotels is better than the leisure end, at least lately. Conventions are scheduled for the new centre already so it better happen. In 2008 things will heat up again for sure.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/drunkill/UC97455.jpg
i could not get a closer image (i needed to get home)
Taken today.

Here are a few from the front.

http://img105.exs.cx/img105/5848/dsc004537gl.jpg

http://img105.exs.cx/img105/861/dsc004485nw.jpg

http://img105.exs.cx/img105/967/dsc004490ol.jpg

http://img105.exs.cx/img105/9434/dsc004507nd.jpg

It's making an impression from the Princes Bridge.

Dr. Dan, wonder how Langham will do? - watch it drop to four star! Sheraton have their eyes on the convention centre now or west of King Street. They want to go 'corporate' in Melbourne which means a west of King hotel is likely. Hilton is suppose to go somewhere near Southern Cross Station but seems they're keeping East Melbourne. Things will heat up with the convention centre later this year with the two bids being released to the public. I was reading about the two bids on either the Office of Major Projects or City Council site. Convention Industry is big business in Melbourne and its well known internationally for being up there with the biggies. Think the vacany rate among the business hotels is better than the leisure end, at least lately. Conventions are scheduled for the new centre already so it better happen. In 2008 things will heat up again for sure.
I've also read that the hotel market in Melbourne is in a slump of sorts, with no expectation of new rooms coming online for a while. I don't know if Kwok is that keen on Shangri-La any more for this reason, but if they are, that would be awesome. Shangri-La is right up there when it comes to 5 star hotel chains. Where did you hear about Sheraton and Hilton wanting to build in that area, and are they likely to build their own towers? Sheraton was just the operator of the hotel in Southbank, not the owners. Hilton has been going through a building/refurb phase right around the world. Hilton Bangkok is on its way to completion while the new Hilton KL is about the swankiest hotel one could imagine. The tower is classy, classy, classy. I wouldn't be surprised if they kept East Melbourne going while they built another one in the Docklands/west end of CBD area. If they're going to be close to Southern Cross station, what sites are available? Any possibility of Hilton replacing one of the office towers, or taking up a new CBD site along the run down Spencer St?

Sheraton US sold the Southbank hotel in 1997 when they were very pissed off with the Kennett govt giving the Casino licence to his mates Walker and Williams.

http://hyperhealth.customer.netspace.net.au/IMGP0837.JPG

Today at apparently 9:10
http://img197.exs.cx/img197/3405/P1244990.jpg

Blabbyboy - The Hilton Docklands is going up as stage two of the Southern Cross Development - the planning calls for a building around 20 odd stories I believe. I heard a Bourke Street address but is that possible? - isn't it only a pedestrian link beyond Spencer? I know for certain its not going east of Spencer - its supposed to sit behind or beside the new station. They're talking 2007/8 so its a bit off. Can't see anything new for awhile - certainly not for Commonwealth Games.
As for Shangri-La it will probably like the Vancouver property - a small & expensive $$$ boutique hotel with 200 rooms in a largely condo tower. Melbourne's five star market can handle that. Its the four star range thats oversupplied slightly. Still, the vacancy rates in Melbourne are on the rebound after spiking somewhat late 2003 and into 2004. Probably be three years before any big new hotels open. Might be plenty of hotel chain name changes though.
As for Sheraton who knows about them. After all the legal fighting to get their name in Melbourne (remember Sheaton on Spring that wasn't a Sheraton) you'd think they'd stay in town. I've heard they're coming back but corporate oriented and the convention centre is a choice. Still, with Brisbane sold and others possible you'd almost think they were leaving altogether but I doubt it - just changing properties. Thanks, for pointing out about the casino bid - you right I remember but the better option was chosen in the end. Sheraton wasn't it thats for sure. Better luck to them next time.

someone works in the Hotel industry? :)

I was in southbank the other day and i noticed something, Village docklands has a lot in common with southbanks towers (the ugle organish/pinkish one by crown) just a bit more upmarket.

Anyone else see the resemblence? at least at the moment

tayser - Used to work for Vancouver Convention Centre, and since Melbourne is linked to it thru its Bestcities Convention membership we hear the goss from MCVB. Whether any of it really happens is another matter. Vancouver is getting expanded as well as Melbourne. Toronto built a huge extention, then Montreal expanded too so Vancouver was forced to as well. The convention business is huge for both Melbourne and Vancouver and they're prime destination choices for most companies. I got out of tourism after SARS hurt industry here. It was bad, worse than 9/11 for Canada. Americans were cancelling Vancouver shows because of SARS in Toronto. Thought it was funny since many be calling from New York and they're closer to Toronto than we were in BC. Its scary some's people knowledge of Canada. You'd think the nation was 20 kms wide and all speak french. Yeah right.

Ahh makes sense now ;)

going back to what you were originally saying:

The Hilton Docklands is going up as stage two of the Southern Cross Development - the planning calls for a building around 20 odd stories I believe. I heard a Bourke Street address but is that possible?

It'll be part of the stadium precinct from memory, 716 Bourke Street, 31 / 109m, approved back in [....]:

http://thehoddlegrid.net/dump/docklands-hilton.jpg

It's either the plot of land on the corner of Bourke Street West and Wurrundjeri Way (south east corner of Telstra dome) or the one in the middle of the two corner sites (Victoria Point = south west corner of Telstra dome) - grollo/silvermb?

Shangri-La Vancouver for reference, 60L, 196m:

http://thehoddlegrid.net/dump/shangri-la-vcr.jpg

Why can't we have Vancouver's one!? :eek2:

Thanks tayster for clearing up the Hilton location. Hopefully what Melbourne gets will be like Vancouver's Shangri-La. The thing that sucks is the hotel is the bottom 10 levels or something. They should be at the top where they could $$$$ those views. They've done the same thing with Manchester Hilton Tower (Beetham) putting the hotel at the bottom. At least at the top we'd have a chance of a public restaurant with a hell of a view. Either that or we could visit the hotel and get a good sticky beak around. Docklands from levels 5-10 wouldn't be worth the effort.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/sirbugalugs/IMG_3507.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/sirbugalugs/IMG_3502.jpg

Hmmmm. Not sure what to make of it. 3/10

a shithouse piece of concrete crap thats what I'd make of it.

The only good thing this building will give to docklands is the development of the street level in a few years time that is on the village docklands website's timeline

I think its a good building. A nice low rise building that will fill a gap. Its will provide action and life to that end of Docklands.

another one close to completion. its topped out? might not look a million bux but locationis everything!

I reserve judgement until completion.... It still needs the rest of the glass to go up and the facade to be painted, I think it could turn out quite well.

Stu

Anyone know if this developments units are selling well? I'll be glad when they start work on the shed redevelopment.

contacted sales office today>>
They have sold over 85% to date.
There are a total of 189 units.

you're not listening to what i'm saying. Kwok group are eager to pull out, not that pulling out would be easy. One of my colleagues stayed at Shangri-La in Sydney and got a Shangri-La calendar with proposed hotel projects around the world. Vancouver's was on it, as well as a dozen others, but NOT the Melbourne one. It's a long, long, long way coming so don't hold your breath for it.

Thanks Culwalla for the info. Cheers! 85% - thats not too bad a figure!

http://img222.exs.cx/img222/4088/P2260017.jpg

Looks like some piling works are taking place next door... across the road (Stadium Drive) where the Fox classic cars used to be. Wonder what is going up...

http://www.kangan.edu.au/images/services/ACE_logo.gif

Driving automotive industry training into the future (http://www.kangan.edu.au/news/media-release/2004/04_04_01_autocentre.htm)
1 April 2004


http://www.kangan.edu.au/images/services/ace1.jpg

http://www.kangan.edu.au/images/services/ace2.jpg

http://www.kangan.edu.au/images/services/ace5.jpg

http://www.kangan.edu.au/images/services/ace6.jpg

http://www.kangan.edu.au/images/services/ace4.jpg

The automotive industry will soon have a new state-of-the-art training centre in the Melbourne Docklands.

Kangan Batman TAFE, Victoria’s largest automotive training provider, is building an Automotive Centre of Excellence (ACE) with funding from the State Government.

Kangan Batman TAFE provides training for all sectors of the industry, from retail, service and repair (RS&R) to vehicle and component manufacturing, and motorsport.

This training is currently delivered at the Institute’s Coburg and Richmond campuses, but will be progressively moved into the new Docklands centre as each stage of the building is completed.

The Automotive Centre of Excellence will be built on the north and south sides of the Collins Street extension and Batman Drive in the Docklands, sharing the site of the existing Fox Classic Car Collection.

The multi-storey Automotive Centre of Excellence will be the first and largest facility of its kind in the southern hemisphere. It will be a focal point for the Victorian automotive industry, bringing together automotive training and R&D under one roof. Negotiations are currently taking place with universities, key automotive employers and industry bodies interested in being represented on the site alongside Kangan Batman TAFE and the Fox Classic Car Collection.

Yeah that's been under construction for a while now, never seen any rendings before. It looks bigger than I thought it would be and it will add nicely to the dockalnds mix.

It will be completed late this year which is one year behind schedule :-)

Excellent... something added to the view from the carpark roof at work!

won't look too bad when all the features are added; shades, louveres and the rest. interesting enough right now

http://silvermb.thehoddlegrid.net/vd 200503.jpg

Like I have said before, I like this tower.

I agree. It won't look as conspicuous once it has some neighbours to even out the area.

Have floor plates topped out yet?

And i retract my previous statements about this being horse shit. It is not special but not bad. I quite like the 'grey-ish' colour of it

Now call me crazy but this was the colour i was expecting of the northern side of the QV resi building, i think the grey would have suited it far better than the blue

WOW ! that Automotive building looks great ! docklands is full of surprises isnt it ! Just one of many more docklands projects on the way !

Also, With Village Docklands, dont forget that there is 6 buildings on the one site, and all the buildings are designed to have courtyards in the middle of each building , which are shared amoungst each of the 6 buildings, so technically, when all 6 are finished, all we will see is the outside faceades of each building, so you wont see the bare concrete on the inside sections of each building ! i hope i made sense !

CHEERS

LOZZA

Exactly. I acknowledge that the back of the building isn't its best side, but it will be less apparent when the other blocks go up.

This cluster of one is kind of hung out to dry at the moment. As lozza said it's mean to be part of a development of several and I think it'll look better and better with some company and streetscaping etc.

Speaking of which does anyone know the status of the rest of this project, it tower 2 and importantly the food hall/market for the train shed. With this project being followed through properly it'll be great, if it's done half arsed it'll be crap.

as high as its going to get

http://silvermb.thehoddlegrid.net/vd200504.jpg

So when are all the Channel 9 'celebrities' moving in?

:)

when the Skyscraper celebs come home????

Come on A Brain, I know you are still Playing, I'm sick of the guilt trip.

It appears that the Nike Head Office in Collingwood may be moving into the Docklands too, going on what Capital Gain stated in The Age yesterday. They are proposing to move into the northern end of the No.2 Goods Shed, on the north side of Collins Street. :D

offices or retail??

office/warehouse i've seen the building there in a few times.

offices or retail??

offices

I have an anonymous scoop: Kwok group are thinking of selling their stake in Village Docklands to another property development group from Asia, which I can't name. That means: NO SHANGRI-LA HOTEL.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!i!!!!

no Shangri-la? oh crap... i hope its not true! or at least gets replaced by somthing just as tall.

Well Outrigger will be pleased to hear that news, they can clearly see the long term potential of the area, if Kwok can't see that then it is their own bad luck.

Well hopefuly the other developers might do something quickly! I was speaking to the sales team in the Victoria Harbour display unit and they were explaining that there are plans for Australia's next 6 star hotel further down the Vic Harbour peninsula. So there will be a super luxurious hotel development in Docklands with or without Shangi-La anyway.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/sirbugalugs/IMG_4136_12.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/sirbugalugs/IMG_4128_12.jpg

well thats a differnt way to pull down a crane.
top pix.
cheers

http://img41.echo.cx/img41/5505/dsc001035tx.jpg

oops!

Well Outrigger will be pleased to hear that news, they can clearly see the long term potential of the area, if Kwok can't see that then it is their own bad luck.
grollo, i think the issue is not that the area doesn't have potential. i think the problem is that they can't get returns as high as they would elsewhere, especially in asia, where construction costs are cheaper, things get built faster, the turnover is higher (both apartment sales and hotel guests). they clearly saw the potential, which is why they went into it, but it's just not as good an investment that they thought it would be. let's put it this way - donald trump builds towers in the US, but if he were *really* smart and he had the connections, he could make heaps more in asia. the problem is, how can you do business in asia as well as the asians? with great difficulty.

garmatt, i wouldn't believe everything sales people tell you...look at YE5! gold hehe! :badnews: :D

some fantastic pics there lads!!! keep them coming!!

I had a walk around Village Docklands today and I must say it is still a barren landscape and highly unlikely to be completed for another 2 months. It seems if the Kwok Group is going to abandon this project, then the whole block is going to be barren for the next year or two. Could this put a halt to the Goods Shed market? It would be a pity and a potential loss to Docklands.

It might not be such a bad thing for the area to be undeveloped for the next few years. It seems that there has been a lot of discussion about the poor quality of design throughout Docklands, and if holding off development until some really special plans come along is the price we pay, then so be it. Docklands is really the last piece of undeveloped land in the inner-city, and it would be such a waste if the area was stuffed full of nasty, cheap residential boxes. Regardless of the current housing/commercial market, the land is prime real estate and should be viewed with long-term advantages in mind. Imagine what Docklands could be in twenty years time, when this temporary downturn is but a memory.

^^^

Beacon, some docklands projects are good , and some are bad , but the most are good designs

cheers

lozza

It might not be such a bad thing for the area to be undeveloped for the next few years. It seems that there has been a lot of discussion about the poor quality of design throughout Docklands, and if holding off development until some really special plans come along is the price we pay, then so be it. Docklands is really the last piece of undeveloped land in the inner-city, and it would be such a waste if the area was stuffed full of nasty, cheap residential boxes. Regardless of the current housing/commercial market, the land is prime real estate and should be viewed with long-term advantages in mind. Imagine what Docklands could be in twenty years time, when this temporary downturn is but a memory.

I would have to disagree!
The majority of apartments in the Docklands are sensational and only a couple are ordinary.
None are bad!
If you want to see poor quality/ugly apartments, look no further than at some of the Swanston Street or Southbank developments. :puke:

^^^

Yes , i agree, Docklands apartments are much better than southbank or the CBD. I have seen apartments in Yarra's Edge, Watergate and New Quay , and all are good quality compared to most others

cheers

Lozza

Aren't Docklands apartments a lot more money? CE sell mainly in the $300-500K range, whilst I had got the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Docklands ones start at $750K or so.

The majority of apartments in the Docklands are sensational and only a couple are ordinary.
None are bad!


You're right they are all sensational apartments. Can't quite recall which ones are "ordinary". If going on looks, perhaps Village Docklands is one. But I have been inside a couple of the New Quay apartments and they seem ordinary inside.

Aren't Docklands apartments a lot more money? CE sell mainly in the $300-500K range, whilst I had got the impression (rightly or wrongly) that Docklands ones start at $750K or so.

The housing is both expensive and affordable, by the Docklands Legislation 10% of development has to be made available for Affordable Housing. By Affordable I mean a combination of public/ social housing and rental stock held for people working within certain service industries. (There is a test applied to determine eligibility for this rental stock... it is mostly for the hospitality, retail, car parking etc industries so people don't have to travel home at 2 in the morning to a 'cheaper' area they can afford. Also so the area is less gentrified) This has been accepted well by developers too as it guaruntees 10% sales and they need around 40 to 50% to start construction.

That said the bulk of housing is still reserved for those who will pay for it so prices are expensive for rental and purchasing outside the affordable minority, not sure about $750K though, I remember seeing one bedroom appartments advertised for $350K. The bigger and better appartments are no doubt closer to $750K (or more) and I would assume the cheaper $350K appartments are lower levels with no views and little sunlight.

I look forward to the day that those Central Equity apartments on Southbank are demolished. Vic Urban should get a restraining order against CE, it shouldn't be allowed anywhere near Docklands.

http://homepage.mac.com/jbadcock/Melbourne/misc/IMG_1395.jpg

This pic doesn't really relate to anything, but hey it's in the vicinity :)
http://homepage.mac.com/jbadcock/Melbourne/misc/IMG_1460.jpg

all finished:

http://web.aanet.com.au/nmharrison/village docklands forum.jpg

^^^ I like it, quite nice. That is on the same block as Shangri La yeah? Will fit in really nice once the whole block is filled, nice density :)

Stu

It's come up a treat on that angle.

I think it looks great. Now for the next stage....

^^^ I like it, quite nice. That is on the same block as Shangri La yeah? Will fit in really nice once the whole block is filled, nice density :)

Stu
That's the shangri-la that is not there, but we think is going to be there, but won't be there.

So this is what Miami is like eh.

I look forward to the day that those Central Equity apartments on Southbank are demolished. Vic Urban should get a restraining order against CE, it shouldn't be allowed anywhere near Docklands.

Except...leave the centurion standing :wave:

So this is what Miami is like eh.

Nah - Gold Coast!! Actually Docklands and surrounds reminds me very much of Broadbeach because of the higher standard of architecture, and GC convention centre is similar to Telstra Dome.

^docklands=gold coast? - no - beacon cove=gold coast? - yup -. No offence, but I think that a connection between the architectural quality of the gold coast and the docklands is the last thing the marketing people at docklands would want.

They want the place to be seen as very Melbourne (which IMO it kind of is). And also IMO, Melbourne and the Gold Coast are almost incompariable (patterson lakes being the exception - but that's not really Melbourne)

Towers 2,3 & 4 @ Yarra's Edge look very Gold Coast to me. Other than that I see no real comparison.

^docklands=gold coast? - no - beacon cove=gold coast? - yup -. No offence, but I think that a connection between the architectural quality of the gold coast and the docklands is the last thing the marketing people at docklands would want.

They want the place to be seen as very Melbourne (which IMO it kind of is). And also IMO, Melbourne and the Gold Coast are almost incompariable (patterson lakes being the exception - but that's not really Melbourne)

No - I meant Broadbeach, its very similar architecture to many of the buildings in or going up in Broadbeach. Lots of glass, lots of grey, floor to roof glass - its all very Broadbeach, there is even a little cafe section which is also very Broadbeach - the rest of GC is different.

yeah sorry I was generalising - and I guess it has been a while since I was at the Gold Coast in the late 90s - wasn't my cup of tea then, but I suppose at the same time docklands wasn't even in existence, so it's probably changed alot.

GC does have a bad reputation down south, which is probably not deserved. I'm sure alot of people from up north still think it rains every day in Melbourne.

Just to get my orientation right, Broadbeach is the northern end of the coast right?

yeah sorry I was generalising - and I guess it has been a while since I was at the Gold Coast in the late 90s - wasn't my cup of tea then, but I suppose at the same time docklands wasn't even in existence, so it's probably changed alot.

GC does have a bad reputation down south, which is probably not deserved. I'm sure alot of people from up north still think it rains every day in Melbourne.

Just to get my orientation right, Broadbeach is the northern end of the coast right?
Broadbeach is south of Surfers Paradise - near Jupiters Casino and the GC convention centre.

ah gotcha! Know it now - more commercial buildings than surfers too.

ah gotcha! Know it now - more commercial buildings than surfers too.
Yeah - there is a lot of new towers going up there - same for Southport where new towers are of better quality than the 'beachy' towers of old you see in Main Beach and Surfers.

funny place to put the necessary artwork considering it'll get built out eventually, none the less seems interesting...

http://silvermb.thehoddlegrid.net/vd200510.jpg

the great thing is that when all 6 developments are finished on this site, you wont see the shitty side of each building as they will all hide in amoungst the courtyards in the middle, so all we will see is the good sides of the buildings anyway. you can only see the shitty side of this building as the others are not completed yet, if you know what i mean :rock:

lozza

would i be right in thinking that their must be laneways between each of the buildings on this block if the artwork is to be visible when the construction of the adjoing builidngs commence???? i hope so the laneway leading to that artwork would be very interesting indeed (and probably would scare the shite out of young children if it is the face that it looks like it will be)

"This is Brisbane. This is the heartland of the strongest economy and the most credible city on the Australian continent"

what does that mean?

forstly it says brisbane is the "heartland" of the "strongest economy", what exactly does that mean? Australias not the strongest economy in the world and QLD isn't the strongest economy in Australia....

then it says brisbane is "the most credible city on the Australian continant" !? what the hell makes brisbane more credible than any other city?

(definition: Credibility is the believability of a statement, action, or source, and the ability of the observer to believe the above.)

where the hell does that quote come from? and does the person who wrote it even speak english? it's the most confusing and obscure quote i have ever seen....!

It's by Bernard Salt, who works for KPMG (I think) and who actually lives in Melbourne. Basically, I think he gets paid vast sums of money to write really nice things about each city......which, of course, strips anything he does write about that city of ANY credibility.
He's written some equally as superfluous statements about Melbourne.

so he's a wank?

Not a wank but He is prone to exaggeration and the misleading use of statistics to bolster his own opinions.

For example:

That’s not urban sprawl … this is urban sprawl:Melbourne’s city of Casey southeast of
Dandenong added 8,721 new residents over the year to June 2004 in a largely suburban setting.
The Los Angeles county of Riverside, which is also located in a suburban setting, added 89,100
residents over the year to June 2004. The best, or worst, of Australian suburban sprawl is barely
one-tenth of counterpart areas in the US.

Riverside County has a population of 1.8 million whereas Casey has a population of 210,000. Riverside County is a major growth area on the fringe of Los Angeles which has a population of around 17 million! Whereas Casey is a growth area on the fringe of a city of only 3.6 million and is ten times smaller.

The six Municipalities in Melbourne on the urban fringe grew by a combined total of 33,444 in the same period and had a combined population of 718,642. This is a growth rate of 5%, equal to that of Riverside County.

So is the statement 'the best, or worst, of Australian suburban sprawl is barely one-tenth of counterpart areas in the US' true?

V1 views:

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/9783/102709783dl1128302760.jpg

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/9783/102709783ml1128302757.jpg

You live like a King Grollo, while we labour in the fields....!

Walker at helm of dock project
Maurice Dunlevy
May 23, 2006
BILLIONAIRE property developer Lang Walker has taken charge of the Kuok Group's $700 million Melbourne Village Docklands project.

Mr Walker, already in a bid with Kuok to build an 85,000sqm office complex for the ANZ Banking Group at Kuok's Village Docklands, has finalised a development agreement that puts his private company, Walker Corporation, at the helm of the total precinct redevelopment.

While the terms of the complex agreement have not been disclosed, Walker Corp is expected to receive a substantial share of future development profits. The deal was confirmed yesterday by Walker Corporation spokesman Tim Allerton.

The deal comes as the Walker business is up for sale for more than $1 billion, and is expected to kickstart the Village Docklands project.

Despite ambitious redevelopment plans, Kuok, a Malaysian-controlled company, has so far built only one apartment tower.

An original 2002 master plan outlined four towers, containing more than 1000 residential and serviced apartments, along with offices and a five-star hotel, Shangri-La on the Yarra.

As well as a property empire spread across Asia that includes assets in Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, the Philippines and China, Kuok also controls Shangri-la hotels around the world.

Kuok is best known in Australia through two Sydney developments, the Peak residential tower and the Market City shopping centre in Chinatown.

Mr Walker - who, almost six years ago to the day, walked away from the Victoria Harbour Docklands precinct after a row with the then Docklands Authority over who would pay for a clean-up of contaminated land - introduced Kuok to the Docklands about five years ago.

Mr Walker had previously won development rights for Victoria Harbour - now controlled by Lend Lease - in a consortium led by the millionaire businessman, Graham Smorgon.

Mr Walker is a close friend of Kuok Group development boss Frank S. Goon, who was an engineering student at Melbourne's RMIT University during the 1960s.

The immediate future of the Village Docklands site, which fronts the Collins Street extension, will be dictated by the ANZ decision, which could be made by the end of the month.

The composition of the original master plan is expected to be radically altered if ANZ chooses the site for a series of campus-style buildings.

Although Lend Lease's Victoria Harbour remains favourite, no one has been prepared to write off the Walker-Kuok bid.

Mr Walker is selling his entire portfolio, a mixture of 65 investment and development properties that include vast, mixed-use estates at Rhodes in Sydney's west and Hope Island on the Gold Coast.

Initial expressions of interest in the portfolio are due with Grant Samuel at the end of the month.

wow!! that is a mega portfolio to be selling off! mega $$$

three test rigs, i think there might be something big in the works?

http://silvermb.thehoddlegrid.net/vd200702.jpg

Shangri-La?

three test rigs, i think there might be something big in the works?

That is the Shangri-la site, hopefully they are preparing a final design and hopefully it is still 180m+ ;-)

That is the Shangri-la site, hopefully they are preparing a final design and hopefully it is still 180m+ ;-)

Their website still has no mention... And there is a press release in it today about a Toronto project that is opening in 2011....not very promising if they're listing developments that far ahead and there is nothing on Melbourne.

It's interesting that talk of the Shangri-La arose again in one of the Dubai Tower articles, although it said Tabart would be looking to develop it, which is strange considering SAMA's connection with the Jumeirah Hotel chain and the fact Kuok and Walker are in charge of Village Docklands. Anyway I think there might be more to that story. Even if the Shangri-La doesn't go ahead on that site I'd still be happy if another 180m+ tower did. I wouldn't mind a new Marriott, the current one (on the outside at least) looks to have seen better days.

^^ What about another Hilton?....I think we have a shortage of Hiltons in Melbourne...

^^ What about another Hilton?....I think we have a shortage of Hiltons in Melbourne...There will be another 25-level Hilton reaching 90m @ the new Melbourne Convention Centre, which is now u/c - the black glossy scraper in the render of the link below:

Melbourne Convention Centre (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=100532&page=22)

There will be another 25-level Hilton reaching 90m @ the new Melbourne Convention Centre, which is now u/c - the black glossy scraper in the render of the link below:

Melbourne Convention Centre (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=100532&page=22)

I was being sarcastic :)

moved from batman's hill thread, i guess those test rigs above are for something big

Found this little aside on an article in the australian about lang walker. Wonder what it could be...

Within weeks, Mr Walker is expected to lodge development plans for an $800 million commercial development at the Melbourne Docklands in a joint venture with the Kouk Group at its Village Docklands waterfront precinct.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21540603-25658,00.html

$800m, its going to be big...I doubt there is demand for another $800 million dollars worth of commercial development in the next few years however, considering we have the Powerstation site, CUB, 565 Collins, ANZ etc..

Ooh interesting! Could we finally see a Shangri-La in Melbourne? They already have a sales and rep office here, along with one in Sydney.

When the Regent lost its management of the hotel at Collins Place ( now Sofitel ) AMP owns the buildings and fittings. They were keen to find another Melbourne site...Then Regent lost it's right to that name falling back to its North American arm...Four Seasons..The Regent Sydney rebranded but lost its hotels in Melbourne and Auckland. Whether they still are looking to come back to Melbourne is another question ?

The Regent Hotels were so nice.

I was being sarcastic :)My meds hadn't kicked in that night. http://www.togerland.com/style_emoticons/default/blush.gif

This is all there is on the Walker Corp site:

Docklands Retail precinct will comprise a 6,000 square metre convenience centre located in one of Melbourne’s icons – the historic Goods Shed No.2. The Docklands Retail project is one element of the broader Docklands site development by Walker Group with the Kuok Group.

The Goods Shed is of aesthetic and architectural significance and will be restored to include cafes and restaurants, as well as convenience retail facilities (fruit and vegetable, supermarket, newsagent, gifts, jewellery etc.).

The Docklands Goods Shed retail project is a unique project that will be built using the knowledge and experience obtained from previous historic redevelopments such as Broadway Shopping Centre, Country Road in Melbourne and Finger Wharf at Woolloomooloo.

The site currently has an approved Master Plan from VicUrban that allows for over 135,000 square metres of developable floor space (NLA).

This is all there is on the Walker Corp site:

Thats just the retail development though right?...What haus posted is some new commercial development that we haven't heard about yet...It would be one hell of a redevelopment if it cost $800m

^Yep although it does mention the 135,000sqm allowable in the Masterplan. Sent Shangri-la an email about the hotel a few weeks back and the bastards never replied.

Where the Shangri-la will go if ever built.

http://www.thecollectormm.com/private/ShangriLaHotel.jpg

The Shangri-la and the Dubai style tower ??? are they the same project or do we have two possible high rise for the area ????

Different proposals, different locations.

can someone please give me a link to the dubai tower thread, cheers

You can find it here. (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=397984)

Yes, please make that proposed design if they ever do make it, I love it, a nice glassy box that will add some height to that area. Maybe some red neon glowness from their logo if they put it on top.

It's just a building envelope, the actual tower will probably differ considerably, and will probably have some sort of architectural feature on top. I take it Walker/Kuok will be lodging a DA with the designs of the individual buildings as the masterplan has already been approved? Here's a different angle:

http://www.marchesepartners.com/site/assets/userimages/287_large.jpg

I'm betting and hoping on the Shangri-La. The Kuok Group are the controlling shareholder in the Shangri-La Hotel company. I'm not sure what (if anything) else the Kuok Group actually do so I think the probability is good. Plus $800 million is a lot of cash.

the design looks cool... how tall is it ?

I remembered a height of 180m being floated around? That was long time ago though.... and remember that is concept render, haven't heard a word in ages and Shangri La will probably not go ahead.

Stu

Can the CBD/Docklands sustain another 5 star hotel? They are constantly popping up everywhere and are really giving eachother hell. I cannot see how other small scale or even major 5 star hotels can survive if there are bigger, better, newer ones popping up.

Proposed:
1. Shangri-La
2. Possible 5 star hotel if SAMA building goes ahead.
3. 3rd hotel for Crown complex
4. 2nd Hilton for CBD (really only for convention center)
5. Divine 25 level hotel in Bourke St
6. Possible restart of Southern Cross? Rumours?

Current:
1. Hilton
2. 2 x Hyatt
3. Sofitel
4. Westin
5. 2 x Mercure
6. Marriott
7. Grand Hotel
8. 2 x Crown
9. Stamford
10. Le Meridean at Rialto
11. Holiday Inn
12. Crowne Plaza
13. Quay West
14. Windsor Hotel
15. Langham Hotel

^^ Most of those aren't 5 star hotels.

I remembered a height of 180m being floated around? That was long time ago though.... and remember that is concept render, haven't heard a word in ages and Shangri La will probably not go ahead.

StuAccording to Emporis, it was to be indeed 180m @ 60-storeys above ground - according to my calculations, it would've had very low floor-to-celing heights, and it lists it as "Never Built", which means it is now defunct: Shangri La Hotel (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/sh/?id=100504&txt=Shangri&button=Search)

I would now be concentrating more so on the approved 140m max Mantra Hotel on Bourke or even according to forumer dockman, it's now to be known as a Saville mixed-use tower with apartment & hotel components (ex-Outrigger) in the Stadium Zone. Also on the yet to be approved that may be (perhaps) approx. 400m Dubai-backed SAMA mixed-use scraper in the Batman's Hill Zone.

I think Emporis may have jumped the gun on Shangri-La.

A final design has never been released, just the building envelope which allows a tower 180m high to the roof of the highest habitable floor.

Architectural features & plant levels can exceed this height so it will most likely be higher than 180 meters.

It is still a current proposal and shouldn't be put in the never built category. It is still listed on the Village Docklands website as being the last stage of the project, not canceled.

Village Docklands was always scheduled to be completed in 2011 with the Hotel top be one of the last stages with construction commencing 2008-2009.

Precisely.

It will be very similar to the 60 storey 195m Living Shangri-La U/C in Vancouver:

http://www.rdhbe.com/database/img_42fcd88361a8e.jpg?1164000768

Or the 215m 65 story Living Shangri-
La Tower proposed for Toronto:

http://canada.archiseek.com/news/2007/000039.jpg

I think Emporis may have jumped the gun on Shangri-La.Well, in its current form displayed by the renders, it is unlikey to be built. As some say, it's just more indicative of the height-to-roof envelope.

All they have to do is update the render and details when a design is finalised. Categorizing it as never built is a bit extreme.

The Weekend AFR says that according to the managing director of Tourism Australia, the nation needs at least 32 new 5-star hotels by 2015. Article also said one of the reasons that not so many are being built is because of a lack of 5-star locations. Melbourne room yield grew by 11.9% for 2006 against the 9.7% national average.

IMO the docklands site is a 5 star location, or at least will be in the very near future. At least one high class hotel is bound to be built in the docklands somewhere at some point. If what this guy says is true then it should be only a matter of time before someone like Shangri-La starts ironing out its plans for Melbourne.

^^ Don't forget about the SAMA building. Chances are it will almost certainly contain a Jumeriah hotel if the tower was constructed.

:banana:

from today's Capital Gain, see other articles in Office Market thread.

Banking giant eyes spot in Docklands Village

A DOCKLANDS site once earmarked to be home to the world's tallest building, and ANZ Bank's global headquarters, is likely to be the next home of Westpac.

Sources say the banking giant is formalising details to occupy a new building in Village Docklands, controlled by Singapore-based developer Kuok Group and Walker Corporation. The site, on the south-east corner of Collins Street and Batman Hill Drive, was shortlisted by ANZ last year, prior to the bank committing to a campus-style building nearby at Victoria Harbour.

A Westpac spokeswoman declined to confirm the claims when contacted by Capital Gain, saying the bank is still reviewing its options. But sources say the bank is well advanced in negotiations with Kuok and Walker Corporation for the site at 2-46 Batman Hill Drive.

The property is still registered as belonging to VicUrban, which imposes strict building conditions before granting approval. Sources say this could take several months.

In 2001, developer Grocon failed in its attempts to develop the world's tallest building on the empty site.

The site was later amalgamated with others to become the Village Docklands precinct, which the Kuok Group won control of in 2002. In May last year, Walker Corporation forged a construction and development joint venture with Kuok.

Confirmation of a move to Docklands would be bad for APN Funds Management, which owns 567 Collins Street, the other property reportedly shortlisted by Westpac. A third option for the bank was to stay put at 360 Collins Street headquarters, possibly creating more space on a parcel of land to the rear of the building.

Westpac issued a 16,000-square-metre requirement in September last year, saying it planned to relocate four existing offices that have leases due to expire from 2009.

If westpac moves, that'll mean almost all the major banks have HQ's in the docklands. Who would have thought that the docklands would have ended up the banking hub of the city.

I take it they're talking about the site to the west of where Shangri-La was mooted?

I think you're right Archi.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/789/docklandsmapar0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

article states south-east corner which is the existing V1 building, try again.

Sources say the banking giant is formalising details to occupy a new building in Village Docklands, controlled by Singapore-based developer Kuok Group and Walker Corporation. The site, on the south-east corner of Collins Street and Batman Hill Drive, was shortlisted by ANZ last year, prior to the bank committing to a campus-style building nearby at Victoria Harbour.

Exactly where Tyson has labeled it.

I'm confused about whether the article is referring to the location of Westpac's office or the location of Village Docklands in general. Otherwise it could be further down towards Flinders St prehaps? It gives an address of 2-46 which I presume would put the site futher south. I thought they had resi projects planned for the southern part though.