I will give just one hint here to find which one of those shots of the protest has me in it.

Look in the first pic.

Grey hair, green shirt & jacket with strap on shoulder in middle foreground?

- Andy

You're warm, but that's not me.

the fat round guy with a blue hat? That would look like the type of guy that would infest a forum with a mile-long column of meaningless pictures.

Edited.

the fat round guy with a blue hat? That would look like the type of guy that would infest a forum with a mile-long column of meaningless pictures.

You are correct, but cut the personal attacks. BTW, click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jttjp4-b8CQ) for the video of that rally. If anyone keeps a sharp eye throughout this, they might just spot me in the crowd. On a sidenote, placing the Nets in Newark is starting to become more a possibility if Ratner's deal fails.

You are correct, but cut the personal attacks. BTW, click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jttjp4-b8CQ) for the video of that rally. If anyone keeps a sharp eye throughout this, they might just spot me in the crowd. On a sidenote, placing the Nets in Newark is starting to become more a possibility if Ratner's deal fails.

You are joking right? because if not, every single one of your comments makes sense. It's what I call the "Michael Moore" sindrome.....

[QUOTE=metsfan;20650615]So if someone bought up all the property around your residence and made it into a giant nude gay bar, you wouldn't mind?

I would probably end up checking the place out. If there are lesbians then I would be there at least twice a month depending on the music they spin.

Or how about a 80 storey building that blocked out all of your light to the front of your house, how about a non-matching out of place development that made you want to leave your home?



I probably wouldn't mind but it is highly unlikely. You should try to be a little more rational when picking number of floors..this is NY so that 80 storey would get knocked down to 60 and eventually 50 by the time they actually start to dig.. I would also do the guys here and SSP a solid and take construction shots. My neighbor plays reggaeton nonstop pretty darn loud sometimes, I've become immune to the noise.

It's funny, people think "nimby" till it happens to them.

Is it really funny Andy? Is it? I'm a development junkie, by nature, I will never be a nimby. I am the exact opposite, a yimby. Gay & nude bars? Lol c'mon are you serious? I walk down Christopher street every day I'd accept.. 50 storey building U/C across the street? SweeT! Go ny, keep em coming. Still, it really will never happen.
Not every area is compatible with tall buildings.
Yes well I believe in this direct area there is a 500 foot building. It would be silly if it were in the middle of Woodhaven or up in Todt Hill but the Atlantic Yards? Downtown Brooklyn? Nope not that silly.

In fact i'm shocked more people don't build underground, where there can be unlimited space. Look at the 5th ave apple store!! I know some people, especially ones who don't live in NYC think the whole city is or should be 400+ buildings.

Actually most of the city is lowrise. I've also been all over this city and I think there are areas where highrises will never work, where they will work and where they can work. I am not claiming to be some sort of expert but building up in Brooklyn does not seem so far fetched.


I would love to see a supertall downtown, and maybe a few in midtown, but the reality is that people like sunlight, and the homey & sometimes magical feel to a place that seems untouched.

Midtown and downtown untouched huh? Atlantic yards untouched? I don't know where you live but one is train pit and the other two are business districts. As far as I know there are no supertalls planned for the AY and if people want sunlight they really don't have to go far. We have great parks and if you really want sunlight its simple dont buy or rent in a highrise district.

A proper balance of preservation and progress needs to be found in these areas, because it does affect people, their quality of life, and their sense of home etc.

Oh man you're talking to the wrong one, since getgo I've made it clear how much I really don't care about these people, nor am I the one doing this to them. Cold hearted? yes. Guilty? no. I believe in preservation and there isn't anything worth preserving ( IMO) at the AY.

NIMBY? Try people concerned with where they live and what goes on there.

:fiddle::cry::fiddle:


People should just be impressed by buildings and that be the end of their thought process? Integrated efficient inspiring useful development works, muscling in in brooklyn's brownstone neighborhood doesn't.Overlook

That was inspirational Andy. I'm really happy you quoted me and let me know how you feel. While I encourage you to cheer up about all of this I also think you should know.. I care zero about the other side and what the other side is saying on this issue. You should try someone else next time, I'm not budging nor even remotely seeing it your and Talb's way but I'll still root on this project.

the fat round guy with a blue hat? That would look like the type of guy that would infest a forum with a mile-long column of meaningless pictures.

LMFAO that description made me laugh for a good couple minutes

Edited.

no offense, but an associates degree does not qualify you as "an expert" :okay:

Get a clue & a life. You are no expert, i am, i have an AS in urban planning and an AA in design. I don't care if you care or not, you're just one more ignorant & clueless new yorker to me that has no idea what they are talking about when it comes to development and architecture. Some people actually like to see the sky at night aside from a narrow strip by looking straight up. You need to remember that companies can get abusive and become neglectful bastards if not kept in check. There's an escalator in i forget what subway station that was supposed to be maintained by the tenant of the building over it, but it's been out of service for a year. You think half of the people who work at these places live there? Or care what goes on? Just because you don't care does not mean that thousands of others don't. You are in the minority. The vast majority of people in brooklyn and queens have been battling for decades against highrise developments. Why do you think there are only like 10 high rises in all of long island (one being a hospital)? It's not because people don't care. When i ran out of money and had to move back to PA it broke my heart, but it hurts more to know that someone like you would let corporations have their way in the greatest city on earth. Pathetic & tragic.

- Andy

You have an AS in Urban planning, and an AA in design on SSC. You are right I don't care. The fact that you are a "self proclaimed" expert with an aa, as, and a screen name on ssc.. means BS MF and HFC to me. Congradufukinlations. No I am just another Nyer on here that you will not and can not get along with. That's cool guy, I don't really care about that either. Those people that actually like seeing a sky at night aside from a narrow strip better either suck it up, or pack it up.. You really will be moving further into a dead end with that aspect of your arguement. I gotta admit I'm stubborn and set in my ways. Its like a brick wall. The fact is it is not important to me except here at ssc. Mr. Big Shot AA, AS in design (whose really just another screen name here at ssc) with this companies and escalator BS..
Kid, I'm not a bleeding heart like you at all. Don't think I take the Atlantic Yards into my life off ssc..( like some of you do) none of this do the right thing, ED abuse matters to me. I follow the thread for however many minutes I choose to and I'm onto other things. For all I care they can build all this crap right ontop of these folks and their picket signs, or we get nothing, or these people get whiped out fighting in court for a decade.. i'll still be :cheers: no matter what the outcome. Lol I am in the minority? Well I'm quite satisfied not having anything to bitch about here in the minority. Sucks to be clucking around about everything like those other thousands that you mentioned. Tough break.
You sure you don't have an AS or AA in whining? Nice post.. looks like you put your heart into it. Check it out though: :rant::speech::cry: <~~~ you|| me~~~~> :D:booze::baeh3::fiddle:
You can call me pathetic and tragic but its good to know I didn't go broke and have to leave this place ;). How's PA this evening andy?

<^> off champ. =>>

This one needs :lock: until heavy machinery moves in. Pointless thread... :cheers:

This one needs :lock: until heavy machinery moves in. Pointless thread...

Agree.

- Andy

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/sports/basketball/16arena.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin
No Nets Arena Yet, but Suites Are on Sale

By RICHARD SANDOMIR
Published: May 16, 2008

Construction of the Nets’ proposed arena near downtown Brooklyn is long delayed and financing has not been completed. But the effort to sell the Barclays Center’s luxury suites began Thursday with the opening of a showroom in Manhattan.

The 130 suites arranged on three levels are renting for an average of $300,000 (for 5-, 7- and 10-year rentals). But the 12 elite ones are going for $540,000; they are actually under the stands (making them luxurious party bunkers), with no views of the court, but they come with eight seats at plum locations near courtside. The first of 12 was taken Thursday night by Jay-Z, the hip-hop impresario and a Nets investor.

For those seeking a suite, it will be a relief to hear that only 5 percent is due on the first year’s lease at signing, with the rest due in three installments ending in July 2010.

Brett Yormark, president of Nets Sports and Entertainment, said demand was “good” for the suites and that he did not expect sales to be hurt by the wait to build the $950-million arena, the centerpiece of the $4 billion Atlantic Yards development, which is planned by Bruce C. Ratner, the Nets’ principal owner.

Construction on the arena is expected to start later this year, assuming that financing being arranged by Goldman Sachs has been completed.

The suite on display at the 38th floor showroom in The New York Times Building (the newspaper’s parent company was the development partner with Ratner’s company) is outfitted with Douglas fir wood, cork floors, leather seats, a pool table (with burgundy felt), induction stove burners (replacing messy chafing dishes), LCD televisions and a refrigerator.

Those spending $155,000 to $540,000 to start (the rent jumps from 3 to 7 percent annually, depending on the length of the leases) will be curious about their views, so the suite wranglers can project the locations of each suite on a curved wall.

Before the showroom’s official opening, Yormark said that 20 percent of the suites had already been rented, to investors, friends of investors, and other insiders.

I was only joking but you're right nygirl. My offending comment is now deleted.

I'll bag on tal because of his cynical attitude towards developments throughout the city but thats a low blow. Baggin on him for his physical appearence has no place here.

Baggin on him for his physical appearence has no place here.

Agree.

- Andy

This thread is a joke...reminds me so much like the TTA thread, except another subject.

That said, I am kind of surprised that they are starting to sell those luxury condos already.

You have an AS in Urban planning, and an AA in design on SSC. You are right I don't care. The fact that you are a "self proclaimed" expert with an aa, as, and a screen name on ssc.. means BS MF and HFC to me. Congradufukinlations. No I am just another Nyer on here that you will not and can not get along with. That's cool guy, I don't really care about that either. Those people that actually like seeing a sky at night aside from a narrow strip better either suck it up, or pack it up.. You really will be moving further into a dead end with that aspect of your arguement. I gotta admit I'm stubborn and set in my ways. Its like a brick wall. The fact is it is not important to me except here at ssc. Mr. Big Shot AA, AS in design (whose really just another screen name here at ssc) with this companies and escalator BS..
Kid, I'm not a bleeding heart like you at all. Don't think I take the Atlantic Yards into my life off ssc..( like some of you do) none of this do the right thing, ED abuse matters to me. I follow the thread for however many minutes I choose to and I'm onto other things. For all I care they can build all this crap right ontop of these folks and their picket signs, or we get nothing, or these people get whiped out fighting in court for a decade.. i'll still be :cheers: no matter what the outcome. Lol I am in the minority? Well I'm quite satisfied not having anything to bitch about here in the minority. Sucks to be clucking around about everything like those other thousands that you mentioned. Tough break.
You sure you don't have an AS or AA in whining? Nice post.. looks like you put your heart into it. Check it out though: :rant::speech::cry: <~~~ you|| me~~~~> :D:booze::baeh3::fiddle:
You can call me pathetic and tragic but its good to know I didn't go broke and have to leave this place ;). How's PA this evening andy?

<^> off champ. =>>

god that was hot.

god that was hot.

Yea, ignorance can be sexy.

- Andy

I just heard that DDDB won the 2008 Grassroots Preservation Award according to the HDC (http://www.hdc.org/grassroots.htm). :applause:

Yea, ignorance can be sexy.

- Andy

Ignorance is when a person claims to be an expert in a field because they have an associates degree.

Ignorance is when a person claims to be an expert in a field because they have an associates degree.

:lol: that was priceless, thank you

how about when they keep pming you thinking they are going to make a change in how you act and feel. I love how andy just signs up and is now the ssc regulator. Pm me some more and tell me how much of a terrible person I am because of posts you read on the internet. It does not matter because I am not a real person. What was the point of the PM's? Did you feel you needed to make a point? Because it seemed like a lecture.

Gee, i wish i could be as cool as you, with all the insults and personal attacks. I didn't say i was an expert because i have degrees, i said i am an expert and i have degrees. I helped plan 2 community recreation areas around 200 year old farm structures, as well as an apartment complex next to a highway overpass that had to be squeezed next to one of the older large masonry buildings in that area, currently being renovated for use a an art school. I am also bidding on a job for a group that is working with NJ transit to see if a new rail station can be built at the site of J&J's former factory in new brunswick, NJ. When i said expert i meant in the ways a thing, be it house, barn, silo 1700 foot iconic tower etc fits in with its surroundings and how it affects the local environment in the short and long term. Excuse me for stating my EXPERT opinion which many of my colleagues agree with. You can go back to sipping your wine & typing your mindless drivel now. Internet bullying is uncool, i suggest you stop.

- Andy

These last couple of pages have been fun.

These last couple of pages have been fun.

Perhaps.

- Andy

It was built for the Devils to play hockey and for Seton Hall to play basketball so it will be able to host either sport. The floor for hockey is only slightly larger than for basketball so the combination works pretty well.

I didn't notice this post earlier but I'm not sure how you say that a basketball court is similar in size to a hockey rink. A basketball court is only 94' x 50' while a hockey rink is 200' x 95' to me that's a significant difference. I've never been to an arena used for both that did an acceptable job of being a basketball court! The basketball court is always a long way away from the fans or the seats closest to the court are on the flat floor and views are very restricted.

I didn't notice this post earlier but I'm not sure how you say that a basketball court is similar in size to a hockey rink. A basketball court is only 94' x 50' while a hockey rink is 200' x 95' to me that's a significant difference. I've never been to an arena used for both that did an acceptable job of being a basketball court! The basketball court is always a long way away from the fans or the seats closest to the court are on the flat floor and views are very restricted.

Spectrum? Wachovia center?

- Andy

The only reason the nets have cabin fever is because NYC has more prestige in their minds. To me, NYC and newark compliment each other very well, and people need to get their priorities straight. How about starting a new NYC team if they want one so bad.

- Andy

Spectrum? Wachovia center?

- Andy

I've seen both at the Wachovia and they both work OK but in my opinion it's certainly not ideal. It is probably the best combined use arena there is but it is relatively small but today's standards and the lack of suites is definitely a detriment.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2008/05/20/2008-05-20_brooklyn_tech_building_not_slated_for_at.html
Brooklyn Tech building not slated for Atlantic Yards

BY RACHEL MONAHAN

Tuesday, May 20th 2008, 4:00 AM

A new building for Brooklyn Technical High School won't be part of the controversial Atlantic Yards project, city officials said.

"There's no such plan," said Mike Weiss, chairman of the Fort Greene school's alumni foundation. "Nobody's working on anything like that."

Developer Bruce Ratner had agreed to work with the city, state and teachers union officials, after the project won key state approval in December 2006, to include a new building for the specialized high school.

The agreement required Department of Education officials to choose whether they wanted to create a building for Tech - but the idea never went far.

Instead, Brooklyn Tech officials have elected to continue to renovate their existing building.

"There was never any discussion for a new building for Brooklyn Tech that I was part of," said Principal Randy Asher.

City officials confirmed they have opted out of the agreement.

"We are electing not to have a school there," said Department of Education spokeswoman Margie Feinberg, noting it's not in the capital plan.

United Federation of Teachers officials did not return calls seeking comment.

As part of another agreement, the Memo of Environmental Commitments, Ratner also agreed to provide space for a kindergarten-to-eighth-grade school.

"If Brooklyn Tech is not interested, a space will be provided for a school, regardless," said Forest City Ratner spokesman Joe DePlasco.

The city has until 2010 to ask the developer to set aside space for that school. City officials said it could potentially be part of the capital plan due out in November.

"There still appears to be no plan to deal with the influx of students that the project will bring," said Daniel Goldstein, spokesman for Develop, Don't Destroy, Brooklyn, a group opposing the Atlantic Yards.

The Atlantic Yards project also calls for the construction of 6,400 apartments.

The only reason the nets have cabin fever is because NYC has more prestige in their minds. To me, NYC and newark compliment each other very well, and people need to get their priorities straight. How about starting a new NYC team if they want one so bad.
- AndyWTF are you talking about? NYC does have more prestige than Newark or the entire crappy state of NJ put together for that matter. Period. Case closed. As for a new NYC team, the owners of the Nets are the ones that want to be in Brooklyn. How about getting a new NJ team if Newark wants one so bad. Maybe you should shut your trap because as usual you show you know nothing.

I've seen both at the Wachovia and they both work OK but in my opinion it's certainly not ideal. It is probably the best combined use arena there is but it is relatively small but today's standards and the lack of suites is definitely a detriment.

Yea, the spectrum is tiny, but they knew philadelphia fans would complain to no end if they did a crappy job on either structure, hence them being decent. I had good seats at a flyers game at the WC this past season, and i gotta say i have no complaints, even seeing the back rows, i wouldn't mind being there either. They have removable rows of seats on varying levels to increase visibility across the "gap" to the BB court.

- Andy

WTF are you talking about? NYC does have more prestige than Newark or the entire crappy state of NJ put together for that matter. Period. Case closed. As for a new NYC team, the owners of the Nets are the ones that want to be in Brooklyn. How about getting a new NJ team if Newark wants one so bad. Maybe you should shut your trap because as usual you show you know nothing.

Is that why 40 fortune 500 companies have their global HQ in new jersey?

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2007/states/NJ.html

Obviously you've never been to NJ. Looking at it from across the river doesn't count.

- Andy

Is that why 40 fortune 500 companies have their global HQ in new jersey?

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2007/states/NJ.html

Obviously you've never been to NJ. Looking at it from across the river doesn't count.

- AndyNYC has over 40 Fortune 500 companies in the city alone. I lived in NJ and go there on a weekly basis to visit family and friends. Troll.

NYC has over 40 Fortune 500 companies in the city alone. I lived in NJ and go there on a weekly basis to visit family and friends. Troll.

So you insult where they live? Nice. I live 6 miles from NJ, and both my mom and sister work in trenton, and my family has history in hunderton county going back hundreds of years. I would love to be able to afford to live in some of those places that i've seen. The views can be spectacular also. I have been to every part of NJ in my lifetime, and there isn't a part that i'd call a wasteland by far. I think you are the troll buddy. I don't come on to a site to attack people, you do.

- Andy

NYC has over 40 Fortune 500 companies in the city alone. I lived in NJ and go there on a weekly basis to visit family and friends. Troll.
There are a lot of nice places in Jersey, places like Princeton. You can't compare cities using corporate headquarters and the whatnot. Houston, Dallas, and Atlanta are all sprawling hellholes (no offense, the people there are great) with hefty corporate presence.

Are you really going to refute Andy? He lives 6 miles from jersey and he is an expert! For SSC sake leave it to the experts and shmoe's 6 miles from jersey to make that call!

WTF are you talking about? NYC does have more prestige than Newark or the entire crappy state of NJ put together for that matter. Period. Case closed. As for a new NYC team, the owners of the Nets are the ones that want to be in Brooklyn. How about getting a new NJ team if Newark wants one so bad. Maybe you should shut your trap because as usual you show you know nothing.

It's hard to imagine somebody more arrogant and ignorant. I lived IN New Jersey for over 10 years and its not the shitty rubbish dump you say it is. Obviously when you get close to New York, there is a sense of uncleanliness, but otherwise, New Jersey is one of the MOST beautiful states. Forget Newark, Jersey City is your competition.

Maybe you should go back to your hole and let the experts discuss things.

So you insult where they live? Nice. I live 6 miles from NJ, and both my mom and sister work in trenton, and my family has history in hunderton county going back hundreds of years. I would love to be able to afford to live in some of those places that i've seen. The views can be spectacular also. I have been to every part of NJ in my lifetime, and there isn't a part that i'd call a wasteland by far. I think you are the troll buddy. I don't come on to a site to attack people, you do.

- AndyActually, the only people that can legitimately talk about NJ are people like myself. I've lived in it, I go there often, I've also seen other places as well. I call it like it is. You on the other hand would only like to hear about the good and not admit to the bad. There are plenty of NJans that will readily admit that the state is not as beautiful or idealic as you make it out to be. By the way troll, you are the one coming in here making all these inflammatory posts that get people here arguing. That makes you a troll.

It's hard to imagine somebody more arrogant and ignorant. I lived IN New Jersey for over 10 years and its not the shitty rubbish dump you say it is.Umm, yes actually it is.

Obviously when you get close to New York, there is a sense of uncleanliness, but otherwise, New Jersey is one of the MOST beautiful states. Forget Newark, Jersey City is your competition.I'd hate to break it to you but every state has got some nice attributes to them, whether it be some park or beach or mountain area but that doesn't make every one of them one of the most beautiful. It isn't that special. You just sound like a homer and you lose your credibility.

Maybe you should go back to your hole and let the experts discuss things.You mean the experts that say things like "Obviously when you get close to New York, there is a sense of uncleanliness, but otherwise, New Jersey is one of the MOST beautiful states"

Camden isn't close to New York. Is Camden clean and beautiful?

Actually, the only people that can legitimately talk about NJ are people like myself. I've lived in it, I go there often, I've also seen other places as well. I call it like it is. You on the other hand would only like to hear about the good and not admit to the bad. There are plenty of NJans that will readily admit that the state is not as beautiful or idealic as you make it out to be. By the way troll, you are the one coming in here making all these inflammatory posts that get people here arguing. That makes you a troll.

The only people who can legitimately talk about NJ are the the ones like you who have nothing positive to say about anything? You've obviously not seen as much of NJ as i have. I've been to every part excluding the area where ny/nj/pa have their borders near the delaware river. All i see is some sad little person who can't agree with anyone and is out to attack people every chance they get. You are the troll. Now, hush.

- Andy

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/31/21/31_21_more_fallout_from_recent.html
More fallout from recent Atlantic Yards letters

The Brooklyn Paper

To the editor,

I certainly can relate to last week’s letter from Leon de Augusto (“This guy faults Ratner and Atlantic Yards foes,” Letters, May 17).

As an African-American living near the footprint of Atlantic Yards, I understand his feelings about the apparent “inner-city cultural divide” between the opposition and their “minority neighbors.”

I say “apparent,” because there are minority neighbors involved in the fight, but not in the numbers that we in the opposition would like. Check out photos of the events that have been posted to numerous Web sites. We people of color are there.

Augusto said that Develop Don’t Destroy Brooklyn “has failed to persuade [its] minority neighbors that Ratner is fooling them again, this time through surrogates,” but Ratner apparently has not fooled you. I’m sure you’re not the only one.

I urge you, previous letter writer Thomasina Millet (“Mixed messages,” Letters, April 26), and others who have not been fooled by the developer’s public relations campaign to attend one of the many fundraisers, movie screenings, public hearings, protests and other events. It will take more people of color to regularly show up at these and other events to make it clear that the fight is not about race or color.

We don’t need another Metrotech.

Tracy Collins, Prospect Heights

• • •

To the editor,

Leon de Augusto and Thomasina Millet should be pointed to a photoblog I posted from the Brooklyn Museum protest at http://kingstonlounge.blogspot.com/2008/04/brooklyn-museum-ratner-protest-card-i.html.

Not only were a wide variety of people of various colors on hand, but a wide variety of ages, economic statuses, and so on were in this crowd. It’s wrong to suggest that everybody at this protest — or everybody who is opposed to Atlantic Yards — looks like Daniel Goldstein. There are plenty “people of color” who oppose this project.

Richard Nickel, Jr., Weeksville

Two sides of Gehry

To the editor,

Your recent news item — “Hypocrisy Alert!” (May 17) — suggests an inconsistency between the Municipal Art Society’s longstanding criticism of the Frank Gehry-designed Atlantic Yards project and the organization’s recent architectural merit award to his IAC building in Manhattan.

We don’t see any hypocrisy. The MAS criticized the Atlantic Yards proposal for its poor planning and the total failure of its public and private sponsors to meaningfully engage the public. The MAS presented an award to the IAC building because it was selected by an independent jury as one of the best new buildings in New York City.

The fact that both projects are designed by the same architect is immaterial. In the same awards ceremony, we honored Forest City Ratner, the developer of the Atlantic Yards project, by naming the New York Times Building one of the best new buildings in the city.

The MAS criticizes projects when we feel they will negatively impact the city, and we honor those that enhance the city. Those judgments are based on the projects themselves, not on who designed or developed them.

Kent Barwick, Manhattan

The writer is president of the Municipal Art Society.

Is it just me or all of the sudden did Gehry design buildings in NYC...IAC, BEEKMAN PLACE TOWER, ATLANTIC YARDS. It's fine w/ me though, Gehry is one of my fav architects.

The Gehry designed has been thrown out due to costs in a new design by Ellerbe Becket is in! The new design is about $200 million cheaper than the original design. Still awful expenses for a 20,000 seat arena if you ask me.

Here is a link to the NY Times article: New Nets arena design (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/nyregion/05gehry.html?_r=1&hp)

Just as a cost comparison, Louisville Kentucky is building a new 22,000 seat arena for UofL basketball. It has over 100 luxury boxes and the total project price is about $360 million and as $75 million of that was to relocate an electrical substation that was already on the site.

Of course union prices in Louisville are not as exorbitant as they are in New York and a political climate is much calmer! Both of which I'm sure are major factors in the price for the New York Nets arena.

edit...

NY MTA may ease developer's Atlantic Yards terms

NEW YORK, June 22 (Reuters) - New York's mass transit agency on Monday weighed restructuring a 2005 deal with developer Forest City Ratner for a multibillion-dollar project in Brooklyn, by slashing the upfront payment and giving the developer more time.

The Atlantic Yards project, which would include an arena, office space and apartments, would bring the New Jersey Nets basketball team to Brooklyn, giving the borough its first professional sports team in decades. But like many other big and small real estate developments, it has been choked by the recession.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority on Wednesday will vote on whether to cut the upfront payment to $20 million from $100 million and outline a schedule of payments.

"Obviously, it would be better to have $100 million at the closing," MTA Chief Financial Officer Gary Dellaverson told the agency's finance committee, noting that the economy is much worse than when the accord was originally agreed.

Forest City Ratner wants to start marketing the tax-exempt bonds for the arena this summer, the main factor driving the negotiations, said Dellaverson.

A committee member said it was "outrageous" that the board would have so little time to review the deal, which calls for the arena to be completed in 2012.

The board of the Empire State Development Corporation, which would sell the tax-free debt, will consider other aspects of the project on Tuesday.

The Atlantic Yards project, expected to include thousands of affordable apartment and offices, was first delayed by law suits over eminent domain and then by the recession.

Under the new proposal, Forest City Ratner would be given time to build out the project in steps.

"This was expected to be under way by now, obviously," Dellaverson said.

Representatives of business and construction workers spoke in favor of the development but opponents urged the MTA to rebid the deal. Extell Development four years ago outbid Ratner by $50 million and Ratner will no longer spend $345 million on rail yard improvements, they said.

"Using the MTA to bail out Bruce Ratner's failing project is an insult to straphangers and taxpayers who just rescued the MTA one month ago," said one of the project's fiercest critics, the group Develop Don't Destroy Brooklyn, in a statement.

The state approved fare increases and new taxes to see the MTA through the recession. Agency officials said the MTA is free to replace Ratner with another developer.

Forest City Ratner, which used the Nets and a striking arena design by Frank Gehry to build public support for the project, has been eager to slice costs.

Earlier this month, the developer replaced Gehry, saying his plan was too costly, but architectural critics bashed the new design for resembling an airplane hangar.

The new accord calls for Ratner to post an $86 million letter of credit to ensure that the MTA gets its upgraded rail yard. A roof would be built over the yards to support office towers and apartment buildings.

The new rail yard will have seven tracks, two less than expected, but officials said seven would be adequate.

Over time, Ratner could buy the development rights for the non-arena buildings. The deal calls for the company to make four annual payments of $2 million, followed by 15 payments of $11 million, Dellaverson said.

State's Top Court Will Hear Appeal Against Atlantic Yards
1 July 2009
The New York Times

New York's highest court has agreed to hear a case challenging the state's use of eminent domain on behalf of the Atlantic Yards project in Brooklyn.

The decision by the top court, the Court of Appeals, to hear arguments in October came as something of a surprise to the project's developer, Bruce C. Ratner, who had expected a clear path after a lower court rejected the case in a unanimous decision in May.

The Court of Appeals' involvement, announced on Monday, is the latest hurdle to Mr. Ratner's plans to build a $772 million basketball arena, the centerpiece of the project. The developer and his bankers intend to sell about $650 million in bonds for the arena in late September.

Both sides expressed confidence that they would prevail. The project's supporters said the lower court's decision would most likely be affirmed because it was both unanimous and emphatic in upholding the state's right to condemn the property. But opponents contended that the Court of Appeals seemed to recognize that constitutional issues were at stake.

Matthew Brinckerhoff, a lawyer for the project's opponents who filed the suit, said the court had an opportunity ''to continue its proud tradition of interpreting this state's Constitution in a manner that affords more protection to individual rights and liberties.''

Mr. Ratner must finance the project and begin construction by Dec. 31 to qualify for tax-exempt status, which would save him millions of dollars in borrowing costs. Most analysts say it is unlikely that conventional bonds would sell in the current market.

''I certainly don't envy anyone who has to raise capital in the current environment,'' said Robert White of Real Capital Analytics, a research firm.

The arena, which would be home to the Nets, is one element of an ambitious plan that would include more than 6,000 apartments, about 40 percent of which would be set aside for low-, moderate- and middle-income tenants. Last week, the state gave tentative approval to a plan that extends both the time Mr. Ratner has to build the project and the payment schedule for land owned by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

The Empire State Development Corporation said it would hold public hearings on the revised plans on July 29 and 30 at the New York City College of Technology in Brooklyn. The corporation is expected to give final approval in September.

Landowners and the group Develop Don't Destroy Brooklyn challenged the state's plan to use eminent domain to acquire private property at Atlantic Yards on behalf of Mr. Ratner, who has received more than $300 million in cash subsidies and tax breaks.

The Appellate Division of the State Supreme Court dismissed the suit, saying, in part, that the public would benefit from the affordable housing at Atlantic Yards. The landowners appealed.

State officials asked the Court of Appeals to reject the appeal, saying the project had received state and city approval. The state said in a letter that further litigation ''will likely adversely affect the pricing and marketability of any tax-exempt bond financing that is concluded.''

On Tuesday, the developer and his bankers expressed confidence. A spokesman for Mr. Ratner, Joe DePlasco, said, ''We intend to be in construction before the end of the year.''

Atlantic Yards' Developer Races a Court Hearing, a Bond Deadline and Opponents
10 August 2009
The New York Times

As the usual tumult greeted the final public hearings on the Atlantic Yards development last month, it was business as usual for the developer Bruce C. Ratner.

He visited three rating agencies in preparation for selling bonds this fall to finance the first project in the 22-acre development near Downtown Brooklyn: an $800 million, 18,000-seat arena for the New Jersey Nets.

He flew to Moscow to meet with the billionaire Mikhail D. Prokhorov about investing in the money-losing Nets.

He went to and from City Hall and the state's economic development offices on Third Avenue to complete the paperwork for the Atlantic Yards development and to start work on the arena.

''We are racing to the finish line,'' Mr. Ratner said in an interview as the public hearing drew to a close. ''Our sense is that while this project was important five years ago, it has become even more important given the economy and the job situation in the city.''

Aside from the rebuilding of the World Trade Center, Atlantic Yards is the largest project in the city moving forward. The redevelopment of the 26-acre Hudson Yards in Manhattan and dozens of other projects have been slowed or stopped by a flagging economy and a lack of real estate financing.

But Mr. Ratner must clear a number of important hurdles before starting construction of the arena and the first four residential towers.

There is an Oct. 14 hearing before the state's highest court, where opponents hope to scuttle Atlantic Yards by challenging the state's use of eminent domain. Beyond that, there is a looming deadline: he must get the financing done and start work by Dec. 31 in order to qualify for a much needed tax-exempt bond status and hold on to a $400 million naming-rights deal with Barclays Bank for the arena.

Mr. Ratner acknowledged that he was also seeking additional investors for the Nets, but he said he and his company would retain a substantial stake in the team, which he hopes to move to Brooklyn during the 2011-12 season.

Mr. Ratner has already pared back the cost of the arena from $1 billion and replaced the original architect, Frank Gehry, with the firm of Ellerbe Becket, which has designed a number of basketball arenas. At the same time, he struck new agreements with both the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which owns the railroad yard where Mr. Ratner wants to build the arena, and the state to revise his original plans.

Officials have given him more time to build eight acres of publicly accessible open space and as many as 16 buildings and 6,400 apartments, while allowing him to replace the railyard with a smaller, less expensive yard than originally planned. About 40 percent of the housing would be built for low-, moderate- and middle-income families.

Critics, led by the group Develop Don't Destroy Brooklyn, contend that Atlantic Yards will overwhelm the neighborhood and unfairly benefit a developer who they say has received too many subsidies, including $305 million from the city and the state, along with tens of millions of dollars in tax breaks.

The Court of Appeals has set an Oct. 14 date for oral arguments: some local property owners are challenging a unanimous lower court decision approving the state's use of eminent domain. Daniel Goldstein, a spokesman for Develop Don't Destroy and one of the property owners, said ''the project is dead'' if their appeal is successful. A decision is expected in November.

Regardless, he added, ''We plan on bringing at least two more significant lawsuits against the phantom project,'' a reference to the developer's failure to release new images of his buildings after scrapping the original designs.

Mr. Ratner said he expected to release new images of the arena before Labor Day. ''I think the final architecture will be really beautiful,'' he said.

The developer disputed critics who claim that he may never build the parks and affordable housing that he once promised, now that the expected completion date has been pushed out to 2019, from 2016. Mr. Ratner said there was a continuing need for affordable housing for the city's teachers, nurses, firefighters and hotel workers.

''There is a stable and steady group of takers for work-force housing in the city,'' Mr. Ratner said. ''The goal is not just to create the required amount but possibly more than that.''

In recent weeks, the developer has sought additional housing subsidies from city officials, who have so far declined to go beyond the standard incentives for developers. The project's underwriters, led by Goldman Sachs, are also preparing to sell about $700 million in bonds for the arena in October.

Some real estate executives and critics said it would be hard to sell the bonds for such an uncertain project. But Jay Abrams, a bond analyst at FMS Bonds, said there ''is definitely an appetite for tax-exempt bonds in New York, and elsewhere.'' The lawsuit, he added, ''is not necessarily a game-killer. At the right price, there's always a buyer for bonds.''

Troubled Atlantic Yards project hit with new lawsuit
19 October 2009

NEW YORK, Oct 19 (Reuters) - The multibillion dollar Atlantic Yards project, which aims to construct a new basketball arena in downtown Brooklyn, was hit with another lawsuit on Monday in the latest attempt by grass-roots groups to block the controversial development.

The suit, brought by consumer advocacy group Develop Don't Destroy Brooklyn and 20 community groups from the borough, alleges that the state agency that is cofinancing the development has acted illegally.

It's the fourth lawsuit to be brought against the agency and the two other main parties involved in the project, developer Forest City Ratner and the New York public transit authority.

The Empire State Development Corp is to provide $700 million in tax-free debt financing for the project as long as construction work starts before year end. Alongside the arena, a new home for the New Jersey NBA team, the Nets, the plan includes office buildings and 5,000 apartments.

The ESDC, developer Bruce Ratner and the Metropolitan Transportation Authority have spent six years pursuing the project which has been dogged by legal disputes, financing problems and vocal opposition from community groups and landowners.

The latest suit argues that the ESDC has illegally abandoned the statutorily mandated purpose of the project -- the removal of blight from the area.

That's after the terms of the deal were revised in June to offer sweeter terms to Ratner. Ratner had agreed in 2005 to buy the 22-acre rail yard for $100 million in cash at the time of closing. But the cash-hungry MTA is allowing him to pay just $20 million on closing and the remaining $80 million over 22 year. That will ensure the blight conditions will not be alleviated until well after 2030, the suit said.

"ESDC willfully stuck its head in the sand regarding the new Ratner deal with the MTA," lead attorney Jeffrey Baker said in a statement. "That new deal guarantees that the project, contrary to the legal requirement to remove alleged 'blight,' will exacerbate the 'blight' and make it permanent."

The agency has further breached the original project terms with a recent agreement that the affordable housing component in the project be contingent on public subsidies. The original agreement did not contain that provision, the suit claims.

It further charges the ESDC with acting illegally by failing to conduct a fresh appraisal of the site after making significant changes to the plans, a move they say is required under state law.

Other suits have focused more on the use of eminent domain to seize land for the site and the low price paid to the MTA for the rail yard.

Eminent domain is the power of a government to appropriate privately owned land for a public purpose after paying compensation. In the past, it has been used to clear land for roads, utilities, hospitals or to replace slum property.

New York's top court began hearing oral arguments in one of the lawsuits last week and is expected to issue a ruling by mid- to late-December.

Ratner last month sold 80 percent of the Nets to Russia's richest man, Mikhail Prokhorov, in a more than $200 million deal that includes a partnership for the development of the site.

The suit is Develop Don't Destroy Brooklyn et al. versus Empire State Development Corp et al. at the State of New York Supreme Court.

Atlantic Yards Project in Brooklyn Clears Legal Hurdle

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/11/24/nyregion/24cnd-yardsspan/articleLarge.jpg
The Atlantic Yards project in Brooklyn has been delayed for three years by a flurry of lawsuits, the collapse of the credit and real estate markets and a glut of luxury housing.

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
November 24, 2009
nytimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/25/nyregion/25yards.html?_r=1&hp)

The last major obstacle to a groundbreaking for the $4.9 billion Atlantic Yards development in Brooklyn fell Tuesday when New York’s highest court, the Court of Appeals, dismissed a challenge to the state’s use of eminent domain on behalf of the developer, Bruce C. Ratner.

Mr. Ratner, whose 22-acre development has been delayed for three years by a flurry of lawsuits, the collapse of the credit and real estate markets and a glut of luxury housing, plans to begin selling tax-free bonds next month to finance the development’s cornerstone project: an 18,000-seat basketball arena for the New Jersey Nets at the intersection of Flatbush and Atlantic Avenues near downtown.

The Court of Appeals ruled that the state could exercise eminent domain in seizing the 22 acres, much of which sits within an urban redevelopment area, for Atlantic Yards. Critics of the project had argued that eminent domain on behalf of a private developer was improper and a violation of the state’s Constitution.

“Once again the courts have made it clear that this project represents a significant public benefit for the people of Brooklyn and the entire city,” Mr. Ratner said. “Our commitment to the entire project is as strong today as when we started six years ago. Today, however, this project is even more important given the need for jobs and economic development.”

The developer expects that construction of the arena will take about 28 months, enabling the Nets to move from East Rutherford, N.J., to Brooklyn about June 2012.

Those opposed to the project said that the decision, while a setback, was hardly the end of the fight.

“The fight against the Atlantic Yards project is far from over,” said Daniel Goldstein, a spokesman for Develop Don’t Destroy Brooklyn, a community group that opposes the project. “The community has four outstanding lawsuits against the project and, meanwhile, the arena bond financing clock ticks louder and louder for Ratner. While this is a terrible day for taxpaying homeowners in New York, this is not the end of our fight to keep the government from stealing our homes and businesses.”

If construction begins in the coming weeks as expected, Atlantic Yards will stand out in a city where 530 different construction projects are stalled, sitting lifeless and without adequate financing in virtually every neighborhood.

Atlantic Yards would transform a busy intersection of two major thoroughfares dominated by a deep railroad cut where Long Island Rail Road trains are cleaned between rush periods. The billion-dollar arena would be the most expensive in the country and home to Brooklyn’s first major league ball club since the Dodgers baseball team left after the 1957 season. Plans also call for 16 high-rise towers on the adjacent blocks, mostly residential buildings with as many as 6,430 apartments.

Still, Mr. Ratner and state officials, who support his project, have to contend with at least three other lawsuits, an uncertain real estate market and a lack of construction financing. The developer has said that he will start the first residential building six months after beginning the arena. But with so many new apartments sitting vacant, analysts say it could be many years before demand would justify building so many units in one neighborhood.

The arena would be built on an 8.5-acre railyard and on adjacent property. Some of the owners of the property oppose the project, and brought the initial eminent domain lawsuit. On Monday, Mr. Ratner, chief executive of Forest City Ratner, turned over a $50 million temporary yard, just to the east of the original, to the Long Island Rail Road. Also on Tuesday,, a state-sponsored local development corporation approved issuing a combination of tax exempt and taxable bonds to finance construction of the arena.

Yay...hope you Prospect Heighters and Fort Greeners LOVE IT!!!!! Ha.

As above .. yay!

A NET GAIN FOR BROOKLYN
27 November 2009
New York Daily News

The state's highest court has given a crucial go-ahead to plans to build a pro basketball arena and a major housing development at one of Brooklyn's great crossroads. Good for the judges. Good for New York. There is much to like in the Court of Appeals decision regarding the Atlantic Yards project, starting with new hopes that the Nets will have a home in the city for the 2011 season and that thousands of apartments will rise on land that has been fallow for more than four decades.

By a 6-to-1 vote, the court dealt a small band of opponents a 26th straight defeat in their legal war of attrition against a project that grew only more critical as a jobs producer with the economic downturn. Hats off to developer Bruce Ratner for persevering through six years worth of regulatory approvals and lawsuits.

It is to New York's shame that moving even the worthiest projects off the drawing boards is so difficult in a town that prides itself on getting big things done. All you need are some chanting pickets and a stack of summonses.

On the upside, the court rendered expeditious judgment, positioning Ratner to meet a year-end deadline for financing the start of construction and - even more important - established a wise standard for the use of eminent domain in New York State.

Lawyers for a handful of property owners - among the few who have not sold to Ratner at handsome prices - had asked the court for nothing less than a radical reinterpretation of the state Constitution. Many feared the panel would take an aggressively activist approach in keeping with a recent tendency to flex its judicial muscle.

Didn't happen. The panel declined to repudiate the U.S. Supreme Court's controversial Kelo decision, upholding the taking of a Connecticut home to make way for a now-abandoned commercial development.

Instead, the majority threaded a fine needle. It affirmed that New York may take property by eminent domain only for public use - except when an area has been deemed to be blighted. The court also established that it would not second-guess a blight finding that was reasonable.

The Atlantic Yards zone, at the intersection of Atlantic and Flatbush Aves., fit the blight definition well beyond reason.

With the small exception of a slice occupied by the complaining property owners, the tract has been a designated urban renewal area since 1968 and has stood vacant for all that time. Much of it is occupied by a below-grade cut for the Long Island Rail Road.

Now, if New York is lucky, Ratner will get to work on the arena, perhaps to be home court for Lebron James (we can dream), followed by 6,000 residential units - a third of them affordable - and 8 acres of open space. The public interest has been served.

I wonder if Ratner will ever build a tower there. As I recall, the Williamsburg Savings Bank Building housed mostly dentists before it got converted. Will there be a significant demand for office space in Brooklyn if NYS taxes keep driving everyone across that other river into New Jersey?

new renderings for the Barclays Center

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7964/82593851.png

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/7291/83863271.png

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/4931/63028718.png

http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/8509/18618276.png

not as bad as it could have been, nor as great

That's one nice looking building. So is there any news on starting construction yet. I read the article posted above but I was actually hoping for some more information.

that thing looks awesome!

It's a George Foreman grill!

well they have finally started construction and this thread is so quiet !!!!

Well get some information for us then ;)