THE final push to save one of the world’s most historic warships for Liverpool is being boosted by a professional fundraiser.

Clare Beavan, 32, has been hired full time to find the cash to save HMS Whimbrel as the UK’s only official Battle of the Atlantic memorial.

The campaign, backed by the Daily Post, to save the sloop, one of legendary Capt Johnnie Walker’s second escort group of U-boat hunter-killers, has been run by volunteers for over five years.

HMS Whimbrel will become an international visitor and education attraction if restored and berthed in Liverpool by 2008 in time for European Capital of Culture.

There will be a special fund-raising launch in the autumn with VIP guests, possibly including supporters such as the Duke of Westminster.

The campaign steering committee chairman, Vice Admiral Michael Gretton, believes that the next 18 months are crucial to bring the £2m appeal to a successful conclusion.

Unless this money can be found in 18 months, Vice Admiral Gretton believes that the campaign should be abandoned.


However, the Duke of Westminster has already donated a substantial six-figure sum to kick-start the project’s fund raising.


It is planned that HMS Whimbrel will be permanently moored in a high-profile berth in Canning Dock, Liverpool, by 2008, next to where the Mersey Bar lightship Planet could also be berthed.


“Everything is in place such as the purchase agreement with the Egyptian Navy, business plan and customer strategy for Whimbrel,” says Ms Beavan, from Woolton.


“All we need is to raise £2m to restore and bring the warship back to Liverpool. Fundraising will be stepped up in June and the launch event will be in September.


“If we fail, Whimbrel will be lost forever and there is no other ship that can fill her place.


“Most people do not realise the importance of the Battle of the Atlantic, that it lasted six years and Liverpool’s vital role in it.”


Ms Beavan grew up in Garston and is a business studies grad- uate. She worked for Centre 63 youth centres in Kirkby, YWCA and was a funding manager for The Prince’s Trust.


Anybody wishing to offer donat- ions or help to the project can contact Ms Beavan at: HMS Whimbrel (1942-1949) Battle of the Atlantic Memorial; c/o Royal Naval HQ, Northern England, East Brunswick Dock, Sefton Street, Liverpool L3 4DZ; tel: 0845 127 0780 ; or email: clare@ mersinet.co.uk; infor- mation also on website: www.hmswhimbrel.org

Excellent news, I`m very pleased that this scheme has not gone away.

However, the Duke of Westminster has already donated a substantial six-figure sum to kick-start the project’s fund raising.


I am too Pie,the Duke has already put his hands in his pocket so it's off to a good start.

Would be magic to have Whimbrel in Canning Dock, thanks "your grace" I hope you are not the last to make a donation.

Woody thinking aloud, If all the guys on this forum donated say £10 and presented it to the appeal office under the 21st CL banner it might just get us a bit publicity. Woody has now stopped thinking aloud

Worth thinking about that Woody. I suppose I owe you £10 for that last pint in the Crowne Plaza. It would be a good way of showing that 21CL is as much interested in honouring the past of the city as it is in safeguarding its future. You can count me in.

Cheers Martin, did I mention a very large B+C. :cheers2: thanks for your support, the thoughts of all the other guys on this idea would be welcome, a small price to pay , remembering that Johnny Walker paid a much higher one back in those "dark days".

This city has a fine reputation in public art, I hope that there is also progress on raising funds for " the Bishops and Chevasse" statues. The more art in the street the better.:okay:

Whimbrel marooned in Egypt on Google Earth -

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/8852/untitled1it5.jpg


http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2912/untitled2fy0.jpg

Cheers MO, great detail from "sputnic 1" , I thought for one moment that you had bought a new telephoto lens for that super camera of yours.

Good find Agent M.O.

We need to get this ship back home and restored as another waterfront attraction. There should be several great ships in out tourist attraction docks.

Great spot MO, these 2 pics were on the original thread which seems to have been deleted? anyway I thought they needed showing again.


http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2816/whimbrel194301sx6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/967/whimbrel194302zz9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Definately worth saving to remind us all of the very many sacrifices that were made during the `Battle of the Atlantic` and one that I especially hope that Liverpool will never allow to be forgotten.

Widow's delight as war ship comes home Last Updated: 06 June 2007 9:00 AM

A HUCKNALL widow has spoken of her joy that the ship her husband served on during the Second World War is to be brought back to Britain as a memorial to those who died.
Ethel Taylor's husband, Jack, served on HMS Whimbrel for more than two-and-a-half years during the war.

It protected merchant ships, which were carrying vital food and raw materials from North America to Britain, from German U-boats.

HMS Whimbrel is the last surviving ship to have served in the Battle of the Atlantic Ocean during the war.

After the war, it was sold to the Egyptian Navy. But now they have no further use for it, the ship will be brought home to be berthed outside Liverpool's Liver Building as a memorial to those who lost their lives at sea.

It is hoped the ship will be fully restored and ready for visitors by the summer of next year.

Sadly Jack, who was born in Bulwell, died in 1977, at the age of 56. But his wife Ethel (87), who lives on Lime Tree Road, Hucknall, believes he would have loved to have seen his old ship again.

"I think it's wonderful it's being brought back as a memorial," explained Ethel. "It's a shame my husband can't see it. It will be nice for my great grandson to see and I'm hoping to visit it when it arrives in Liverpool."

By 1943, nearly 4,500 merchant ships had been sunk by U-boats as the Germans attempted to cut off Britain's only supply line.

HMS Whimbrel was one of several vessels from the British, American and Canadian Navies that were sent out into the Atlantic to battle against the U-boats.

In 1944, it also helped with the Normandy landings and was transferred to the Pacific for the final months of the war against Japan in 1945.

It was sold to the Egyptians, who later decided to dispose of it, and it has been kept in dry dock in Alexandria, Egypt ever since.

When a handful of Navy veterans saw the ship was for sale, they formed a charity, The HMS Whimbrel Battle of the Atlantic Memorial Project, to investigate whether it could be returned to Britain.

Once negotiations and essential repairs are completed, the vessel will be carried back to Britain by floating barge.

The cost of the whole project will be about £4 million. But it has attracted some high-profile supporters, including the Duke Of Westminster, who has made a significant six-figure donation.

Former Naval chief, Vice-Admiral Mike Gretton, whose father commanded an escort group in the Battle of the Atlantic Ocean, said: "It might not have been the most glamorous of campaigns but it was vital to Britain's survival.

"If we'd lost the Battle of the Atlantic, the war would have been over. That's why it's so important that the sacrifices of all those who took part are finally recognised. In HMS Whimbrel, they will have a fitting memorial."

It is believed another Hucknall man, Alex Brown, who lived on Carlingford Road, also served on the Whimbrel.

If it does it will add another unique dimension to our skyline.

Excellent news. About time we had a permanent Navy boat as an exhibit in Liverpool. I still think it's an absolute disgrace that the Historic Warships museum was closed down over the water - they had some excellent exhibits there. And for what? A flipping carpark!

Excellent news. About time we had a permanent Navy boat as an exhibit in Liverpool. I still think it's an absolute disgrace that the Historic Warships museum was closed down over the water - they had some excellent exhibits there. And for what? A flipping carpark!

I'll wait until we have official confirmation but that recent article seems to suggest it will happen.

It certainly sounds promising but like you Paul I think we should keep our fingers crossed and hope this happens, thanks for the update.

Would be a great centre-piece for the museum, get the old u-boat over too, and maybe a moth balled Victory or Liberty boat off the yanks, and it would be the best maritime museum in the world by far. The Albert Dock is depressing without boats in the water. Better still with a real Warship alongside with history, it would really bring the place to life. If the organisation need a crew to bring the thing home....... I'm a marine Engineer, and know a few others too. That said, I think you'll only need a tug!!!:)

There was the case of the last WW2 british aircraft carrier too. I think the Brazillians were selling it for 10 bob. Wouldn't fit in Canning Dock I suppose, but could've been in one of the north docks as an extension of the museum that will soon be readilly accessible via the canal for boat trips from the museum. Not sure if it's still for sale or has been scrapped.....shame though.

Great news, I hope this happens.

Placing ships in the historic inner docks has proved to be far more difficult than I ever imagined it would be. Obviously it's been a merchant rather than military port - so the automatic bias is towards civil rather than military ships - but then there was that utter nonsense with the "red boat" in Albert Dock supposedly "not fitting in with the colour scheme" (the red pillars in that Dock should be black anyway, so I think they had some nerve complaining about the colour of a boat!). Now we have low-level controversy about these little barge boats, which undermine the scale and magnificance of the setting.

A while ago a chain of cafes at train stations opened up with a sort of "aquarium theme" - a bit like the way Orange shops did - and they rather optimistically started out with saltwater tanks with all the coral etc... Unsurprisingly, within months, they converted them to fresh water (far easier and cheaper to maintain, for those who know about that kind of thing), but retained the coral / saltwater fittings. And, to anyone who knows anything about fish, it looked stupid. I suppose that is a bit like the debates about what kind of ships look right in the historic docks. They were open for so long that there is no single "era" that owns them, and no reason why modern ships can't be put in them. I just feel that canal boats are poorly scaled if they are the only boats in them, and whilst I am excited by this development, I dont think we should only be aspiring for military craft, as that could create a slightly odd impression that Liverpool's martime past is like that of say Portsmouth.

We do need more boats that people can go on, and Albert Dock are seriously missing the whole bloody point in not attracting such boats to berth there, as they would be a major draw (and they really need to increase visitor numbers). What happened to the plan to buy a former Isle of Man ferry and make that a "present" to the city for CoC? Did it happen? Anyone know where that boat is due to go, if it is indeed due to come home to the city? Personally I'd rather they'd bought the Royal Iris rather then a former Isle of Man ferry, if they had a choice about which one boat to buy.

Anyway, this is very encouraging, and will be a major asset to the city.

Great ideas here, hope someone from the Maritime Museum or the Culture Co. is reading this. I suppose a small entrance fee to those ships could go towards the upkeep of them.

Planet lightship.


http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6750/planet1pg2.jpg

Smashing pic Doug, even though its the RED :lol: This ship must stay in the city.

If Whimbrel does come back, (and I really hope it does), are there any plans for where it will be exhibited? The obvious place I would think would be Salthouse Dock as that is definitely in need of some attraction and it is so close to the city centre.

I have only a superficial understanding of the problems involved in getting the ship to Liverpool and converting it into a museum ship. I think one of the main questions is whether or not the ship will fit through the lock gates. Does anyone know if that has been investigated?

If Whimbrel does come back, (and I really hope it does), are there any plans for where it will be exhibited? The obvious place I would think would be Salthouse Dock as that is definitely in need of some attraction and it is so close to the city centre.

I have only a superficial understanding of the problems involved in getting the ship to Liverpool and converting it into a museum ship. I think one of the main questions is whether or not the ship will fit through the lock gates. Does anyone know if that has been investigated?

Martin, back in April 2005, head of the project team , Rear Admiral Michael Gretton said that after restoration in drydock Whimbrel will be permanently moored in her former escort group home of Canning Dock, along side the Strand.

If this is correct then I guess that she will fit through the lock gates.

Martin, back in April 2005, head of the project team , Rear Admiral Michael Gretton said that after restoration in drydock Whimbrel will be permanently moored in her former escort group home of Canning Dock, along side the Strand.

If this is correct then I guess that she will fit through the lock gates.

Actually, that is probably a better location as it will be closer to other marine landmarks such as the old White Star Building and the POL and Cunard Buildings.

I hope they have measured the gates as it would be a bit embarrassing for it to come here all the way from Alexandria and then find it doesn't fit.

Whilst the Whimbrel will not attract tourist numbers on the scale of HMS Belfast, I expect some sort of shore installation will be required for managing the visitors, selling tickets etc.

A £2m fund-raising appeal has been launched in Liverpool to bring the last surviving warship from the Battle of the Atlantic back to the city.
HMS Whimbrel worked as an escort vessel protecting convoys carrying vital cargo supplies during World War Two, and is currently lying in dock in Egypt.

Liverpool was the UK's main convoy port where on average four arrived each day.

It is hoped she can be now be restored and become a visitor attraction on the Liverpool waterfront.

The Whimbrel was vital to the Battle of the Atlantic. Over 1,000 convoys arrived on Merseyside during the war, and she was the called the "Rolls Royce of wartime escort ships" by the navy.

She ensured the safe passage of ships bringing supplies and equipment into Britain, defending them from German submarines.

Cecil Cox, a Whimbrel veteran, described her role.

He said: "When you located a sub you sat over the top of it while the rest of the group formed up a line behind, then you moved off and they'd come in and drop all the charges.

"It was very dangerous - you could get hit by a torpedo as you turned off."

Vice admiral Mike Gretton, chairman of the Whimbrel Project, said: "She's been in Egypt for 60 years or so and of course the climate is better there than it is in Liverpool and she's in a remarkable state of preservation.

"The Egyptians also didn't really make any modifications to her so she's in the same state as she was when she was used during the war. So she a great historical monument as well as a commemorative one."

Once returned, the ship would be berthed at Canning Dock.

This is brilliant news, Whimbrel will look just fantastic in Canning Dock.

Larry Neild, Liverpool Daily Post

Last warship of Battle of Atantic to return to Liverpool

THE last remaining warship from Captain Johnnie Walker’s legendary escort fleet is coming back to Liverpool as a lasting memorial to the Battle of the Atlantic.

Royal Navy top brass and navy veterans turned out yesterday for the launch of a £2m fund that will transform HMS Whimbrel into one of the city’s biggest tourist attractions.

It will be permanently moored in Canning Dock alongside The Strand to be used as a visitor attraction and interpretation centre.

The appeal fund has already won backing from the Duke of Westminster, whose company is building Liverpool One on the other side of The Strand.

Whimbrel once hunted U-boats across the dark and dangerous waters of the North Atlantic, and is currently moored in Egypt.

Whimbrel appeal chairman, Vice Admiral Michael Gretton, said last night: “The aim is to commemorate the most important but least recognised campaigns of World War II.

“The first stage is to bring Whimbrel back to Liverpool by the end of 2008 and open her by spring 2009 in Canning Dock, by The Strand, which could not be a better, high-profile place.

“She will become an internationally significant heritage site, a major visitor attraction and a focus for future generations. The choice of Liverpool is very relevant as the major inbound port for wartime Atlantic convoys.”

Preserving Whimbrel means that people will never forget that 70,000 Allied personnel died and 2,000 Allied ships were lost in the Battle of the Atlantic, said Vice Admiral Gretton.

“But there are two serious hurdles to be overcome. Firstly, raising £2m and secondly, negotiating for Whimbrel with her current owners, the Egyptian Navy,” he added.

“However, I would not be in Liverpool launching this appeal if I did not think we could achieve our goal. We have a financially viable and sustainable plan in place.”

Initial restoration work will be undertaken in Alexandria Naval Dockyard, before returning Whimbrel to the UK on a pontoon for completion on Merseyside for her heritage and educational role.

Liverpool City Council and the Government Office North West contributed equally to a detailed £40,000 maritime survey which confirmed Whimbrel’s condition.

The Duke of Westminster, unable to attend the launch because of illness, is a major sponsor to the project through his Westminster Foundation and Grosvenor plc.

Launched in 1942, HMS Whimbrel is a Black Swan class sloop, which served in the Battle of the Atlantic, Russian convoys, D-day, and Pacific theatre and attended the surrender of Japan in Tokyo Bay.

Based in Gladstone and Can- ning Dock, Whimbrel performed similar duties to Compass Rose, the fictional corvette in Liverpool author Nicholas Monsarrat’s best-seller, The Cruel Sea.

In 1949, Whimbrel was sold to the Egyptian Navy and renamed Tariq. There has been minimal structural alteration to the warship.

The Lord Mayor of Liverpool, Cllr Paul Clark, said: “It’s of vital significance and importance to establish HMS Whimbrel in the city centre. Not only will she serve as an additional tourist attraction, but she will be an international memorial, reminding us of how much we owe to the brave men of this city and elsewhere who fought in the Battle of the Atlantic.”

Ironic that if she does come home to Liverpool, she will be moored right next door to the new Slavery Museum. So visitors to our city can see that a city that benefited from slavery also played a very important role in freeing the world from it.

Ironic indeed Martin,this is up there with the paradise Street development for me,I'm just as excited about this than anything else that we have going on at the moment.Reading that article they're talking as if it's definitely going to happen,I desperately hope it does.

Will the folk at the museum ever think to make such a link though? I personally doubt it...

Will the folk at the museum ever think to make such a link though? I personally doubt it...

What was the sketch with the Planet being shoved out of the Albert Dock by cheap landowners/ busineses ? I missed all of the backstory to the whole affair.

Wouldn't there be a risk of something similar happening with the Whimbrel?

Oh, the colour scheme of the lightship wasn't appropriate or something, and the scummy shop/bar owners took it upon themselves to attack the vessel. Cunts. At least the Whimbrel has guns to fire back.

Liverpool was the UK's main convoy port where on average four arrived each day. ... .250 ships each day?
I don't think so, where do they hire these journalists?

Four convoys a week (two "fast" and two slow) is more like it. Still plenty of work to keep the docks busy.

Now I just hope they move the U-Boat so people can see HMS Whimbrel and U-534 together. Maybe S.S. Jeremiah O'Brien (the Liberty ship that's usually in San Francisco) will come to visit one day. I suppose it's too much to hope that some shipping line still has an ocean-going British Merchantman from that era!?

Birkenhead had a Royal Navy involvement at that time too. In 1943, before I was born, my father was declared "unfit for sea service" and left the Merchant Navy (it probably saved his life, he did the North Atlantic and Archangel runs) and was directed to work for the Wallasey Ferries. At that time the Ferries were contracted to do refit and routine maintenance work on RN minesweepers and that's what he did. The Germans mined the Mersey quite a bit, the fearless minesweeper crews made short shrift of them (and got in a bit of trawling for fish on the side during the quiet times :-). The Luftwaffe's aim was not too good, people in Wallasey claimed they were being targeted for bombing when mines intended for the River fell on them.

Our joy (much later, 1950) was the Wallasey Belle - the only ex-military ship to become a Mersey Ferry (as contrasted with the reverse at Zeebrugge). Apparently she went to Australia and was never heard of again (like so many Merseysiders).

There used to be hundreds of old US Merchant Marine vessels mothballed all over the states. A ship I was on in the 80's and 90's used to regularly dock in San francisco across from what appeared to be a ships graveyard. It seemed to stretch as far as you could see, and many were world war 2 vessels. Local veterans restored one of them.... a victory boat (faster and sleaker than Liberty boats). This was called the Laine Victory I think and is berthed in Los Angeles/Wilmington. The enthusiasm of these people was infectious, and they were equally excited when they heard where I was from...... it would seem they still hold a lot of affection for what was one of the best Liberty ports for them. I would have thought there would be many eligible exhibits amongst these ghost fleets in the US.

There used to be hundreds of old US Merchant Marine vessels mothballed all over the states. A ship I was on in the 80's and 90's used to regularly dock in San francisco across from what appeared to be a ships graveyard. It seemed to stretch as far as you could see, and many were world war 2 vessels. Local veterans restored one of them.... a victory boat (faster and sleaker than Liberty boats). This was called the Laine Victory I think and is berthed in Los Angeles/Wilmington. The enthusiasm of these people was infectious, and they were equally excited when they heard where I was from...... it would seem they still hold a lot of affection for what was one of the best Liberty ports for them. I would have thought there would be many eligible exhibits amongst these ghost fleets in the US.That would be great, wouldn't it! I recall that when the last ocean-going Liberty ship came over to the landing grounds (60th anniversary, 2004?) there were doubts about whether Liberty ships were ever really seaworthy enough to tackle to North Atlantic. I suppose they kept their life-jackets on at all times, all the way across, just like in the war. The shipyard in Marin (near San Francisco) was built in a matter of months and demolished soon after the war, barely a trace of it today. They built 1500 miles of Alaskan Highway in under seven months in 1942, nowadays it takes years to get the smallest thing constructed.

I suppose if we want to save the old U-Boat then someone should look into an anti-rust paint that has a hue of "Yellow Submarine". It would make some marketing person happy somewhere.

And I wonder what became of the old World War 1 mine that was used as a money box for donations at Seacombe Ferry for so many years. Now that looked like a mine, a BIG bright red steel globe with brass horns and an anchor chain.

In the historical ships museum in San Francisco, they allow parties of schoolkids, with supervising teacher, to stay overnight on the ship as part of a two-day field trip for the kids. The museum makes them breakfast as a reward for taking turns to Stand watch in two-hour shifts to "guard" the ship all night (like anyone's going to steal it:-). Each watch is two kids together or two pairs of kids. I'm not sure how "much" sleep the teachers get:lol: A nice touch, everyone wins, I hope Liverpool will have something similar. The kids don't forget spending a night in a ship's bunk, albeit moored at the dock. http://www.nps.gov/safr/historyculture/balclutha.htm

Mind you, given the Scouse scallywags, perhaps the museum ships will need guarding. I can imagine someone making a business out of guarding those visiting narrow boats while the skipper is enjoying the nightlife.

I didn't know much about HMS Whimbrel other than what forumers have written about here. But I've been convinced that all efforts must be made to bring back this piece of local history.

Too little use is made of the vast expanses of water. This would be an ideal addition to Canning Dock. It would help raise awareness of Liverpool's positive maritime role in WW2.

There used to be hundreds of old US Merchant Marine vessels mothballed all over the states. A ship I was on in the 80's and 90's used to regularly dock in San francisco ... I would have thought there would be many eligible exhibits amongst these ghost fleets in the US.Part of the National Defense Reserve Fleet at Suisun Bay.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Reserve_Fleet

SS Red Oak Victory, SS Lane Victory and SS American Victory have been preserved as well as Liberty ships SS John W. Brown and SS Jeremiah O'Brien have been preserved. The main difference is the Libertys made 11 knots, the 1942 onwards Victory ships made 15 and so could out-run U-Boats)

I'm sure the Americans would respond to a formal request of a donation of a suitable ship to Liverpool to commemorate the Battle of the Atlantic. However it may already be too late, four of the last Victory ships were scrapped in the last 18 months, see for example the fate of the SS Hannibal Victory
http://www.marad.dot.gov/Headlines/2006/MARAD%2006-06-SBRF%20Announcement-Final-Approved%20by%20OST.htm

What is needed is for someone in Liverpool who is in a position to offer a ship a proper home to make a formal request to the Americans. Heck, as a special deal if it were the City of Liverpool asking they might even be willing to pay for the repairs to make it seaworthy (with volunteer labor of course) and offer a special Lend/Lease deal. I'm not sure whether the people of Liverpool realize just how special Liverpool is in the hearts of the Americans who live through that era. They would give things to Liverpool that they would not give to England, so to speak.

There is a little breathing room, presently many ship scrappings are on hold due to concerns about spreading bad marine organisms verus pollution from cleaning them off. But it probably won't last more than a year or two.

Even if a donation were not possible, I suspect a Victory ship would be willing to cross the Atlantic to visit the Whimbrel when the time is right.

They might remind the Americans that during the War, all US Armed Forces were granted freedom of the Borough of Wallasey in perpetuity. (Do US Navy personnel still get free rides on the Mersey Ferries? They should). Liverpool probably honoured the US Forces too, I can't be sure.

I suppose if we want to save the old U-Boat then someone should look into an anti-rust paint that has a hue of "Yellow Submarine". It would make some marketing person happy somewhere.
No! That would be a total disgrace! As if we have to disguise the U-boat as yet another Beatles tribute to give it historical significance! I know you were only joking, but this is the kind of thing that some overpaid marketing 'consultant' would probably try and push forward.

If it happens, I'm going out with a barrel of red oxide and a stepladder...

No! That would be a total disgrace! As if we have to disguise the U-boat as yet another Beatles tribute to give it historical significance! I know you were only joking, but this is the kind of thing that some overpaid marketing 'consultant' would probably try and push forward.

If it happens, I'm going out with a barrel of red oxide and a stepladder...

Has disguising things as Beatle tribunes actually been done?:ohno:

Don't think so, but then, if you re-read what I wrote it doesn't suggest otherwise... moreover, I'm perhaps implying there's too much emphasis on the Beatles in this town...

Don't think so, but then, if you re-read what I wrote it doesn't suggest otherwise... moreover, I'm perhaps implying there's too much emphasis on the Beatles in this town...

there nothing wrong with promoting the Beatles, its the one thing that quite comfortably no other city in England can compete with!


now wheres me tub of yellow paint :) :nuts:

Trouble with competition is that we spend too much time worrying about what the other cities (like Manchester...) are doing. Screw them, I couldn't care less.

Painting it yellow would just be a disgrace, and pretty disrespectful to the brave guys that manned those 'tin sardines'...

Trouble with competition is that we spend too much time worrying about what the other cities (like Manchester...) are doing. Screw them, I couldn't care less.

Painting it yellow would just be a disgrace, and pretty disrespectful to the brave guys that manned those 'tin sardines'...

^^ was a joke :cheers:

Excellent article in this mornings DP, the Battle of the Atlantic trail (not to sure about that title though) finally looks like a bit of joined up thinking, apart from U534!!

Western Approaches, the Nicholas Monsarrat archive, U534 and HMS Whimbrel, a unique collection and a fitting tribute to all who fought in WW2's longest running campaign. I think the National Trust should get more involved with this idea.


HMS Whimbrel now looks likely to return to her former Merseyside base for preservation late next year


http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-life-features/liverpool-special-features/2007/12/08/a-forgotten-battle-is-remembered-64375-20220930/

Whimbrel will be returned from Alexandria Naval Dockyard and, once restored, will be floated into Canning Dock for permanent display by The Strand.

It's looking more and more likely now that we're going to get our battleship back,this will be an amazing coup for the city.This will provide the wow factor for people visiting the Waterfront,I can't wait personally.

Paul your right it will have a wow factor, but just think how much better it would've looked berthed alongside a German sub!! unique, as far as I know nothing like it in the world.

Totally. Unlikely now - the gas axes have moved into the U-boat...

Excellent article in this mornings DP, the Battle of the Atlantic trail (not to sure about that title though) finally looks like a bit of joined up thinking, apart from U534!!

Western Approaches, the Nicholas Monsarrat archive, U534 and HMS Whimbrel, a unique collection and a fitting tribute to all who fought in WW2's longest running campaign. I think the National Trust should get more involved with this idea.





http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-life-features/liverpool-special-features/2007/12/08/a-forgotten-battle-is-remembered-64375-20220930/

Great news Doug. Hope it comes off - what a fantastic end to Capital of Culture year.

I went to the Cabinet War Rooms last summer. There is now a large exhibition there devoted to Churchill but, the rooms themselves are nothing like as impressive as the Western Approaches Museum. People see the small entrance to the museum and expect to see a couple of ship models and some photographs. Little do they know.

It was pay day the other day so I was feeling flush and a bit guilty for sitting on my hands and thinking "I really want this to happen"... so I bunged £100 the way of the appeal. Can I talk anyone into matching me? It's the first time I've ever done owt like that and it felt alright...

Just got to make sure the missus doesn't find out now!

I might bung them a few quid. Good course, after all.

Fingers crossed , this will be the "battleship" berthed in Canning Dock late in 2008...............

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9696/hmswhimbrelos3.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5167/17jpgqc0.jpg

Photos taken from official web site

For details on how you can donate to this fantastic cause see, www.hmswhimbrel.org

[QUOTE=woody;12818216]Would be magic to have Whimbrel in Canning Dock, .

If all the guys on this forum donated say £10 and presented it to the appeal office under the 21st CL banner it might just get us a bit publicity. QUOTE]

I posted this back in April, and with progress being made on getting "our" battleship back into port, I think it is even more relevant today .

HMS Whimbrel facts from the website:
www.hmswhimbrel.org

HMS Whimbrel was designed for the anti-submarine and anti-aircraft defence of merchant convoys, they came to be regarded as the “Rolls Royce” of wartime escort vessels and, as such, were considered a prime command and allocated to many of the best officers.

HMS Whimbrel was ordered from the famous Yarrow shipyard in Glasgow on 13th April 1940 as job number J1861, HMS WHIMBREL was one of only twenty-nine modified BLACK SWAN class sloops.

She played a supporting role in the Sicily and Normandy landings.

She was one of the vessels chosen to represent the Royal Navy at the September 1945 surrender ceremony in Tokyo Bay that marked the end of the Second World War.

She is one of less than a handful of remaining major Royal Navy warships from the Second World War and is the only one to remain in anything like original condition.

She still has her original armament, as well as many fixtures and fittings still intact, she represents a virtual treasure trove of life at sea during the Second World War.

HMS Whimbrel: A specification to conserve and restore HMS Whimbrel to her 1940s RN condition is complete, however the project still needs technical information. Can you help? Seeking photographs of interiors of Whimbrel or any of the class. Snaps of crew members would help with background detail such as mess kit, domestic articles, engine room controls, bridge detail. How about communication and radar? Any information would be appreciated. Contact Rod Pudduck

I don't know whether we can read too much into this but it seems everything seems to be on track.

http://www.navynews.co.uk/ask_jack/aj_w.asp

Sorry to go off-topic, but it's a pity we can't have the Mersey Ferry Royal Iris returned, instead of serving as a bedroom for the current owner! It was sold in 1990, and since then has been through a succession of owners and resting-places. After forty years crossing the Mersey, it deserves to be returned just as much as HMS Whimbrel. Hope I haven't started something:ohno:

Sorry to go off-topic, but it's a pity we can't have the Mersey Ferry Royal Iris returned, instead of serving as a bedroom for the current owner! It was sold in 1990, and since then has been through a succession of owners and resting-places. After forty years crossing the Mersey, it deserves to be returned just as much as HMS Whimbrel. Hope I haven't started something:ohno:

going ot a little,I walked past the lightship the other day and it had a for sale banner on it? Is it for sale? why.

HMS Whimbrel should be a great success as a permanent attraction on the waterfront - hope the fund raising is going OK

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2816/whimbrel194301sx6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/967/whimbrel194302zz9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.hmswhimbrel.org/

From the Daily Post -

Whimbrel plan flounders as Egyptians increase price

Sep 23 2008 by Liam Murphy, Liverpool Daily Post

THE campaign to save the last Battle of the Atlantic warship in Liverpool was dealt a severe blow with news that its owners have quadrupled the sale price.

The HMS Whimbrel Battle of the Atlantic Memorial Ship charitable trust was poised to announce agreement to buy the World War II warship for £250,000.

Instead, the Egyptian Navy, present owners of Whimbrel (now named Tariq) unexpectedly rejected the final formal contract of sale for the sloop’s scrap value and demanded £1m.

However, it is planned to retain the charitable trust and company formed to handle the 1942-built former Royal Navy warship, in case the Egyptians have a change of heart.

Although the Egyptians have dismissed offers from scrap merchants, citing the warship to be of historic maritime value, there are no other candidates wanting the vessel.

The Duke of Westminster, who is patron of HMS Whimbrel Battle of the Atlantic Memorial Ship trust, donated the bulk of the £250,000 for the warship’s purchase.

After acquisition, a £1.75m fund-raising drive was to be launched to return Whimbrel on a barge from her lay-up berth in Alexandria dockyard to the Mersey next year.

Article continues here - http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/09/23/whimbrel-plan-flounders-as-egyptians-increase-price-64375-21878116/

That`s ex`asp`erating said `Cleo`.....

They obviously want to barter.

That`s ex`asp`erating said `Cleo`.....
They obviously want to barter.
So does a Liverpool museum have any Egyptology artifacts that could be repatriated as part of a horse-trading deal? The odd pot-shard dug out of the Suez canal or something?
It's not all about money, the Egyptians have national pride and heritage too.

So does a Liverpool museum have any Egyptology artifacts that could be repatriated as part of a horse-trading deal? The odd pot-shard dug out of the Suez canal or something?
It's not all about money, the Egyptians have national pride and heritage too.

They can have my Mummy (in-law)

She's an old relic :lol:

From the Daily Post -



Article continues here - http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2008/09/23/whimbrel-plan-flounders-as-egyptians-increase-price-64375-21878116/

Sounds like a familiar tactic, this is a last attempt to get a bigger price, test the waters, if the charitable trust say no, too much, and wait a bit, then i'm certain the next move will be, "ok you can have it for the original price".

You have to haggle in Egypt, it's part of the culture, and almost impolite not to, tell them we're struggling with the original price nevermind £1m. Mind you the value of steel etc it's hardly surprising.

Shame they didn't take that WW2 aircraft carrier off the brazilians, didn't they only want towing costs?

You have to haggle in Egypt, it's part of the culture, and almost impolite not to, tell them we're struggling with the original price nevermind £1m. Mind you the value of steel etc it's hardly surprising.

Shame they didn't take that WW2 aircraft carrier off the brazilians, didn't they only want towing costs?

Yep, only towing costs. The cost of converting the carrier to WW2 spec was considerable though. India still has a WW2 carrier - the last time I looked anyway.

I hope the charitable trust view this as the start of the process and not the end of it - it doesn't sound dead yet and even if the price is above £250,000, that sounds like cracking value for a WW2 warrior which will be berthed in her original escort group's home port. Does anyone know if they have looked at HLF funding? Bid usually stumble on the expense of continuing upkeep for maritime projects, but Whimbrel would be sat in the middle of an established tourist destination. It might be easier to deomnstrate that she will pay her way...

Meant to say, would you all mind sending a quick e-mail to the trust telling them to keep up the good work? I know they've made their porfessional fund raiser redundant and would hate them to give up on this because they thought the public didn't give a monkey's...

I hope the charitable trust view this as the start of the process and not the end of it - it doesn't sound dead yet and even if the price is above £250,000, that sounds like cracking value for a WW2 warrior which will be berthed in her original escort group's home port. Does anyone know if they have looked at HLF funding? Bid usually stumble on the expense of continuing upkeep for maritime projects, but Whimbrel would be sat in the middle of an established tourist destination. It might be easier to deomnstrate that she will pay her way...

What's good enough for the Cutty sark should be for us. Funding should be available for a potentially major exhibit. Always thought the warship museum was on the wrong side of the river they would have had far more visitors on our side.

What's good enough for the Cutty sark should be for us. Funding should be available for a potentially major exhibit. Always thought the warship museum was on the wrong side of the river they would have had far more visitors on our side.

If the museum was on the Birkenhead side of he East Float and a Merseyrail line run in adjacent, it would have been far more successful.

So does a Liverpool museum have any Egyptology artifacts that could be repatriated as part of a horse-trading deal? The odd pot-shard dug out of the Suez canal or something?
It's not all about money, the Egyptians have national pride and heritage too.

The difference is they were mostly sold or robbed anyway by the locals.....:)

So don`t get all `king tut` on me. :lol:

From the BBC -

WWII warship is not coming home

A charity's plans to bring the last surviving warship from the Battle of the Atlantic back to Liverpool have been put on hold.

Negotiations to buy HMS Whimbrel back from the Egyptian Government stalled when the two sides could not agree on a price.

HMS Whimbrel, which worked as an escort vessel during World War Two, is currently lying in dock in Egypt.

Once returned, the ship would have been berthed at Canning Dock.

'Enormous support'

A fund-raising appeal was launched in 2007 to bring it back to Liverpool.

Work on the project has been suspended, but the charity and company name will be kept alive in the hope the Egyptian Government changes its mind.

The Whimbrel was vital to the Battle of the Atlantic. Over 1,000 convoys arrived on Merseyside during the war, and it was the called the "Rolls Royce of wartime escort ships" by the navy.

It ensured the safe passage of ships bringing supplies and equipment into Britain, defending them from German submarines.

Vice-admiral Mike Gretton, chairman of the Whimbrel Project, said: "She would have been a memorial to those who served in the Battle of the Atlantic, a heritage site, a visitor attraction and an educational focus for the Atlantic campaign."

From here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663657.stm

It looks like they're trying to call their bluff now,this is what the British Government actually thinks of those brave souls who sacraficed their lives,they should be ashamed f themselves! This sum is a mere pittance.:ohno:

From the BBC -



From here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/7663657.stm

The fella was on radio saying, the headline is not true, they still aim to bring it home. Credit crunch may help out again if the Egyptians need cash.

PaulD
A bit unfair to label the "British Government" in that way though, unless you mean the Egypt Government.

I wish they had bought it and then done the fund raising for the refurbishment ... hopefully there is still a path through this as it would make a wonderful addition to Liverpool.

The fella was on radio saying, the headline is not true, they still aim to bring it home. Credit crunch may help out again if the Egyptians need cash.

PaulD
A bit unfair to label the "British Government" in that way though, unless you mean the Egypt Government.

No I meant the British,once they've used you they drop you,just look at the pensioners struggling to heat their homes who've been scarred for life by war.

The govt don't have an obligation to buy this or any other warship, which they obviously previously sold to the Egyptians, therefore it is unfair to label them for not doing so, otherwise we might as well purchase back all ex-warships for fear of being labeled evil.

Wouldn't that money be better spent assisting those pensioners, (anyone over 79 will have fought in WW2, relevant to this ship), to heat their homes. Why doesn't the charity raise the money to heat homes rather than buy a rusty ship, and spend, (waste), more restoring it....!

Just to point out most pensioners under 79 won't have fought in a war, so won't have been dropped in the manner you suggest.

I'm just playing Devils Advocate by the way, giving the other side, i would like to see all pensioners keep warm and the ship be bought and restored.

Just me playing the devils advocate,they don't even give them proper equipment in Iraq which has led to deaths,they also help the Americans cover up the truth when they kill soldiers and civilians and newsreaders with that friendly fire they're so fond of.:)

From the Echo -

HMS Whimbrel battle goes on

Oct 24 2008 by Marc Waddington, Liverpool Echo

CAMPAIGNERS trying to bring HMS Whimbrel back to Liverpool have insisted their fight goes on.

The World War II ship, which its current owners originally wanted £250,000 for, is now valued by the Egyptian government at £1m.

As a result, it will cost the campaign about £2m to bring back to Liverpool as an education and historical tool.

Merseyside campaigner John Livingston encouraged people to continue to support and help try to raise the money needed.

He said: “Although the excellent people down in London have taken it as far as they can, we in Liverpool, who originally instigated the project, are not in abeyance at all.

“We are hoping to continue negotiations with the Egyptians to try to achieve the breakthrough we need.

“We are still seeking to bring this unique ship back to Liverpool.”

The Whimbrel played a decisive role in the Battle of the Atlantic.

It was used an escort for U-boat hunters.

From here - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2008/10/24/hms-whimbrel-battle-goes-on-100252-22108187/

Good news that this honorable project is still being talked about but as time goes on I feel less than confident that this naval treasure will be secured and brought back home where it belongs.


If Mountbatten couldn't save Starling then it doesn't bode well for Whimbrel, let's hope that the Lottery Fund now recognise the value of these things and do the right thing. (Also the Egyptian Navy should stick with the original price and not seek to profit too much)

Her late father, Lord Louis Mountbatten, former First Sea Lord, failed in 1966 to save HMS Starling, which was Capt Walker's flagship and HMS Whimbrel's sistership.


link: http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2010/02/15/countess-mountbatten-of-burma-joins-hms-whimbrel-campaign-92534-25835230/

If Mountbatten couldn't save Starling then it doesn't bode well for Whimbrel, let's hope that the Lottery Fund now recognise the value of these things and do the right thing. (Also the Egyptian Navy should stick with the original price and not seek to profit too much)


Hi Doug, the £1m price tag is less than some city council's spend on PR!

Hi Doug, the £1m price tag is less than some city council's spend on PR!

Merseytravel spned £70 million on an unneeded tram scheme, when cheap Bndy-buses can do the same, with not a line laid. £1 million is button to promote the sity. Get Peel to dredge out the docks so it can fit in again.

From the Echo -

Peter Elson’s Shipping Lines: New Liverpool Labour leader pledges to get veteran warship from Egypt

May 17 2010 by Peter Elson, Liverpool Echo

NEW Liverpool council leader Joe Anderson repeated the pledge he made on March 8 that he would fly to Egypt and resolve the log-jam over the purchase price of the former HMS Whimbrel, the last Battle of the Atlantic warship, if elected.

That would mean meeting with Field Marshal Tantawi, Egyptian defence minister, who has quadrupled the ship’s price to £1m.

Whimbrel was sold to Egypt after wartime service in Captain Johnnie Walker’s Liverpool 2nd escort group.

Letters to Pres-ident Mubarak of Egypt from the Countess Mount-batten of Burma, Cherie Blair and Lady Symons, of the Anglo-Egypt Society, pleading for the Egyptians to honour the original agreed price have fallen on deaf ears.

Cllr Anderson said: “I am keen to directly tell him this is not a profit-making project, but a memorial to the sacrifice of all those who died in the battle, which will include allies like the Egyptians. This is something I am determined to make happen.”

Article continues here - http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news/2010/05/17/peter-elson-s-shipping-lines-new-liverpool-labour-leader-pledges-to-get-veteran-warship-from-egypt-100252-26458933/2/

It would be great if they get this on the waterfront.

It's an investment that would attract people for decades.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/markwalters/Black%20Swan%20Class%20Sloops/Whimbrel.jpg

Shouldnt this probably go to Portsmouth? Liverpool is not really a Naval port.

Battle of the Atlantic. Googlez it Tonks. :yes:

I am aware of that, but still, Liverpool is a merchent/commercial Port.

Battle of the Atlantic. Googlez it Tonks. :yes:

Not to mention Camell laird and the Naval ships built there....the Ark Royal for one.

Gah! The Wimbrel's fame is owing to its role, sailing out of Liverpool and escorting the North Atlantic Convoys during the Battle of the Atlantic. It's captain, "Johnnie" Walker's funeral following his wartime death due to exhaution was held in Liverpool cathedral from which his body was taken to the Pier Head to be taken out to and buried at sea.

The Battle of the Atlantic was fought between the RN, headquartered the Western Approaches command in Liverpool, and the German Navy, with the latter's U-Boat prey being in the main Liverpool merchant ships crewed by Liverpool sailors. This battle, associated overwhelmingly with Liverpool rather than anywhere else (and this is why its commemorations have been held there and why the Pier Head has several public monuments related to it) was fundamental to Britain's survival in WWII. If those Liverpool ships could not get to Liverpool with their cargoes from Canada and the US, the war would have been lost. Churchill thought so for a start.

^ That all sounds worryingly patriotic Awayo. I'd have thought you'd be rooting for the Germans? After all they weren't saints, but surely the Brits and Yanks were worse? ;)

And as for citing Churchill, well surely that's just not right in Awayoland! He was evil personified wasn't he??

Better uniforms for sure. But the Yanks' smart casual look worked as well. Britain's forces were dressed in brown sacks. Sartorially at least it was a disaster and they deserved to lose.

Shouldnt this probably go to Portsmouth? Liverpool is not really a Naval port.

Built by Camell laird.Aircraft carriers

HMS Ark Royal (1937)
HMS Ark Royal (1950)
HMS Venerable (R63)
Battleships

HMS Exmouth
HMS Glory
HMS Mars
HMS Prince of Wales (53)
HMS Royal Oak 1892
Cruisers

HMNZS Achilles
HMS Argonaut
HMS Birkenhead
HMS Cairo
HMS Caledon (D53)
HMS Capetown
HMS Caroline
HMS Castor
HMS Charybdis
HMS Chester
HMS Constance
HMS Dido (37)
HMAS Melbourne
HMS Pathfinder
HMS Patrol
Frigates

HMS Ajax
HMS Campbeltown
Sloops

CSS Alabama
HMS Kite
Turret ships

HMS Captain
Huáscar
HMS Wivern
Destroyers

HMS Badsworth
HMS Banshee
HMS Beaufort
HMS Birmingham
HMS Contest
HMS Coventry
HMS Devonshire
HMS Dragon
HMS Edinburgh
HMS Earnest
HMS Express
HMS Fearless
HMS Gravelines
HMS Griffon
HMS Hardy
HMS Hogue
HMS Inglefield
HMS Ithuriel
HMS Lagos
HMS Lively
HMS Liverpool
HMS Lizard
HMS Locust
HMS Malcolm
HMS Orwell
HMS Panther
HMS Quail
HMS Seal
HMS Sluys
HMS Sparrowhawk
HMS Sprightly
HMS Stonehenge
HMS Swift
HMS Thrasher
HMS Virago
HMS Wolf
HMS Wolverine
HMS Zealous
Submarines

HMS Aeneas
HMS Affray
HMS Alaric
HMS Conqueror
HMS Ursula
HMS E41
HMS E42
HMS E45
HMS E46
HMS Finwhale
HMS Grampus
HMS H33
HMS H34
HMS L7
HMS L8
HMS Odin
HMS Onyx
HMS Opossum
HMS Oracle
HMS R11
HMS R12
HMS Renown
HMS Revenge
HMS Safari
HMS Saga
HMS Sahib
HMS Salmon
HMS Sanguine
HMS Saracen
HMS Scorcher
HMS Seadog
HMS Sealion (1934)
HMS Sealion (1959)
HMS Sea Nymph
HMS Sea Robin
HMS Sea Scout
HMS Selene
HMS Sibyl
HMS Sickle
HMS Sidon
HMS Simoon
HMS Sleuth
HMS Solent
HMS Spearfish
HMS Spearhead
HMS Spirit
HMS Spinger
HMS Spur
HMS Statesman
HMS Stoic
HMS Storm
HMS Stratagem
HMS Stubborn
HMS Sturdy
HMS Stygian
HMS Subtle
HMS Supreme
HMS Surf
HMS Syrtis
HMS Taku
HMS Talisman
HMS Tempest
HMS Thetis
HMS Thorn
HMS Trasher
HMS Trident
HMCS Victoria
HMCS Windsor
Auxiliaries

RFA Aldersdale
RFA Appleleaf
RFA Dewdale
RFA Orangeleaf
Greek destroyers

Aetos
Ierax
Leon
Panthir
Liners

Arandora Star
MV Brisbane Star
MV Dunedin Star
SS Kristianiafjord
HMCS Prince David
Mailships

RMS Connaught
RMS Leinster
RMS Mauretania
RMS Windsor Castle
Oil Tankers

MV Empire MacColl
Merchant ships

SS City of Pretoria
SS Manistee
SS Kalyan
Ferries

TSS Manxman
MV Royal Daffodil

Gah! The Wimbrel's fame is owing to its role, sailing out of Liverpool and escorting the North Atlantic Convoys during the Battle of the Atlantic. It's captain, "Johnnie" Walker's funeral following his wartime death due to exhaution was held in Liverpool cathedral from which his body was taken to the Pier Head to be taken out to and buried at sea.

The Battle of the Atlantic was fought between the RN, headquartered the Western Approaches command in Liverpool, and the German Navy, with the latter's U-Boat prey being in the main Liverpool merchant ships crewed by Liverpool sailors. This battle, associated overwhelmingly with Liverpool rather than anywhere else (and this is why its commemorations have been held there and why the Pier Head has several public monuments related to it) was fundamental to Britain's survival in WWII. If those Liverpool ships could not get to Liverpool with their cargoes from Canada and the US, the war would have been lost. Churchill thought so for a start.


I don't think Walker captained Whimbrel, his ship was HMS Starling.

Shouldnt this probably go to Portsmouth? Liverpool is not really a Naval port.



nope

I don't think Walker captained Whimbrel, his ship was HMS Starling.

You're right there. Should have checked.

Next thing we know and Awayo will be admitting that Ahmadinejad, Chavez, and Putin are pretty damn flawed, after all.... ;)

Putin aint flawed. He's Tony Hibbert in disguise.

It would be great if they get this on the waterfront.

It's an investment that would attract people for decades.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/markwalters/Black%20Swan%20Class%20Sloops/Whimbrel.jpg

Absolutely, together with a huge leap in the profile of the Battle of the Atlantic Museum to rival the Imperial War Museum.

Oh, and a 'tall ship' whilst we are at it!