Why are the West & Eastern Cape Provinces + KwaZuluNatal more liberal than Free State and the former Transvaal? This has been eating at me for some time.
Urbanisation clearly isn't it. The Eastern Cape has a huge rural population in the former Transkei homeland and there are plenty of people in KZN who still live in Zululand, while the most industrialised urban corridor in the country is found in the former Transvaal. So what is at work here?

I wouldn't say the Western Cape is more liberal than Gauteng. Many of it's people voted for the Democratic Alliance, which is a right of center party, with less than half voting for the left of center ANC.

its because people who live closer to the interior are closer to the mielies.

I wouldn't say the Western Cape is more liberal than Gauteng. Many of it's people voted for the Democratic Alliance, which is a right of center party, with less than half voting for the left of center ANC.

The DA is a libertarian party and a member of "Liberal International" which includes parties like the Liberal Party of Canada and the LibDems in the UK. They definitely aren't right wingers like say the American Republican party.

The Western Cape is definitely more liberal than Gauteng. Pretoria has VF+ crazies that Cape Town does not.

I really wish there were more interest in this topic.

The DA is a libertarian party and a member of "Liberal International" which includes parties like the Liberal Party of Canada and the LibDems in the UK. They definitely aren't right wingers like say the American Republican party.

The Western Cape is definitely more liberal than Gauteng. Pretoria has VF+ crazies that Cape Town does not.

Thats true about the DA, but the DA also consists of conservative whites who defected from the National Party that ruled SA under apartheid. The DA's free market economic policies which are neoliberal in the South African context are more in tune with the Republicans in the US and the Tories in the UK.

^^ i'd hardly say the DA is like the Republicans!!

I reckon the difference is to do with lifestyle. People around the world in coastal areas tend to see the world and life differently to their inland cousins

Obviously any party has several different groups within it, so it's always possible to point out that certain aspects of the Republican platform are at odds with certain aspects of the DA's platform. But on the whole, I'd say they're much more similar than disimilar, given that both have philosophical roots in the classical liberal movement.

I'm not sure, however, that I'd characterise the coast as more liberal than the interior. HirakataShi, on what basis do you make that observation? Support for political parties?

I think people on the coast generally are a lot more relaxed about life and so do not worry so much about prejudices and the like. It's the sea, I think, and the fact that at the end of the day, you can take a walk along the beach and wind down.

But on the other hand, I hardly feel constrained by a conservative lifestyle here in Joburg, and infact I know ppl who have lived in both Cape Town and Joburg who think that Joburg is more 'South African,' in the sense that one is exposed to all the realities this country has to offer.

But it's all relative and it's all huge generalisations, so I don't feel one cannot say for certain, and certainly not with any authority.


Thats true about the DA, but the DA also consists of conservative whites who defected from the National Party that ruled SA under apartheid. The DA's free market economic policies which are neoliberal in the South African context are more in tune with the Republicans in the US and the Tories in the UK.


I would agree with you there. In the context of South African politics, they're more likely to be anti-labour and pro-free market economics than the ANC are, and therefore more right of centre than the ANC.

But I would also agree with Umhlanga that there are different groups within a party, particularly the ANC, which as we all know is having leadership splits between those are more left versus those who are more right of the political spectrum.

The same with the DA.. I think Helen Zille would be more left of centre than say, Douglas Gibson.

i am one of those who believe that Joburg is more representative of the country than say Cape Town. Having said that, i find that a lot of people especially in the smaller towns and to some extent Pretoria tend to be hardliners who seem to hail or rather sympathize with VF+ and the likes of AWB and long for the past political order.

As for DA, they have come a long way and i agree that i like Zille a lot better than Tony Leon. I actually voted for the ANC nationally but DA in Gauteng just to keep the ANC in check. With Zille likely to succeed Tony Leon come next month, perhaps DA just need to sort out their appeal to the black constituency and we may ultimately see an opposition party that is capable of taking on the ANC in the near future at national level.

I'm not sure, however, that I'd characterise the coast as more liberal than the interior. HirakataShi, on what basis do you make that observation? Support for political parties?

Based on this same observation
Having said that, i find that a lot of people especially in the smaller towns and to some extent Pretoria tend to be hardliners who seem to hail or rather sympathize with VF+ and the likes of AWB and long for the past political order.

Nowhere is this more true than in Limpopo and North West Province!!

all over the world people in the rural areas are more conservative than those in towns it is the same in the UK and USA so limpopo/ north west/ free state are not unusual. Also those areas are more concerned abot ANC land policy than say down in cape town where it is not something most people ever think about (mst of the winelands does not have land claims due to the cut off dates etc whereas most of the interior does)

Pretoria is conservative as it is very afrikaans and most of the whites there have been sacked from the new civil service and so are understandably a bit more peeved with the ANC thna say whites down in cape town who have benefited from economic/tourism boom and the growth of CT as a global city since the end of sanctions.

I personally would never vote FF+ etc but I understand those who do. And also in many ways they engage with the government with constructive opposition and with constructve suggestions and help far more than the DA under tony Leon eg: the list of unemployed white artisans they supplied to the deputy pres in conjunction with solidarity which has resulted in many of the people on that list being hired by municipalities which no skilled artisans.

I cant help thinking that this thread is a bit liberal holier than thou and if you are so liberal HirakataShi why do you live overseas rather than stay and contribute to building our new country?!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Holier than thou" not intended. I am trying to stimulate debate.

all over the world people in the rural areas are more conservative than those in towns it is the same in the UK and USA so limpopo/ north west/ free state are not unusual. Also those areas are more concerned abot ANC land policy than say down in cape town where it is not something most people ever think about (mst of the winelands does not have land claims due to the cut off dates etc whereas most of the interior does)

Pretoria is conservative as it is very afrikaans and most of the whites there have been sacked from the new civil service and so are understandably a bit more peeved with the ANC thna say whites down in cape town who have benefited from economic/tourism boom and the growth of CT as a global city since the end of sanctions.

I personally would never vote FF+ etc but I understand those who do. And also in many ways they engage with the government with constructive opposition and with constructve suggestions and help far more than the DA under tony Leon eg: the list of unemployed white artisans they supplied to the deputy pres in conjunction with solidarity which has resulted in many of the people on that list being hired by municipalities which no skilled artisans.

I cant help thinking that this thread is a bit liberal holier than thou and if you are so liberal HirakataShi why do you live overseas rather than stay and contribute to building our new country?!!!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting point Mike. I do agree that Pieter Mulder of the VF+ is alot more constructive than Tony Leon who whines to much. In the northern provinces I can visualise the VF+ becoming the official opposition as well as in Pretoria given what they are doing with Solidarity. I think that Helen Zille will be a much better leader for the DA although she is focussed on CT and whoever she chooses to lead Parliament will be the person that the ANC will deal with the most: Douglas Gibson or Ryan Coetsee.

Mike2005 is right. I don't see a real interior-coastal divide so much as urban-rural. Find some random plaas in Limpopo, then drive 2 hours south to a coffee shop in Rosebank, and I'll bet R100 that, on average, you'll find more liberalism at the end of your drive than at the beginning. But so what? The countryside is always more conservative than the city - and that goes for people of all races all over the world.

urg anyone but Gibson. He makes Leon seem constructive. I agree Mosi that what FF+ and solidarity are doing is great and oftn very constructive. I have a lot of respect for them.

I am (and I cringe as I say this) quite happy with some of the work AfriForum is doing. They have been active in trying to lure back Afrikaaners who have left which is important as many of them are skilled and can help to alleviate the skills shortage. At least the AfriForum folks are patriots and not moaners and groaners, but I do wonder what type of society they really want.

I am (and I cringe as I say this) quite happy with some of the work AfriForum is doing. They have been active in trying to lure back Afrikaaners who have left which is important as many of them are skilled and can help to alleviate the skills shortage. At least the AfriForum folks are patriots and not moaners and groaners, but I do wonder what type of society they really want.

I think they are normal people like you and me. They're not the crazies from Eugene Terre'Blanche's AWB or Robert van Tonder's BSP. At least they are constructive about SA and I think they're folks worried about the declining use of Afrikaans as a language in the business world in SA.

why do you cringe? I think you are VERY out of touch with what the FF+ is trying to do and what they have been up to in the past year or so.

you seem to give off an impression of alwasy trying to prove how liberal you are when you have decided for whatever reason that the new south africa is not the place you want to live in (correct me if Im wrong) whereas these people you seem to insist are so right wing have stayed in this democracy of ours (something you have not done) and are tryng to help build this country by coming up with some good ideas and interacting with the government to get those ideas put into practice.

I dont agree with everything they do but I think Mulder is a better man than Leon.

sorry if that came across as a bit rude its just the tone and premise of starting question in this thread has really annoyed me.

mike2005 I'm sending you a PM.

why do you cringe? I think you are VERY out of touch with what the FF+ is trying to do and what they have been up to in the past year or so.

you seem to give off an impression of alwasy trying to prove how liberal you are when you have decided for whatever reason that the new south africa is not the place you want to live in (correct me if Im wrong) whereas these people you seem to insist are so right wing have stayed in this democracy of ours (something you have not done) and are tryng to help build this country by coming up with some good ideas and interacting with the government to get those ideas put into practice.

I dont agree with everything they do but I think Mulder is a better man than Leon.

I can agree with you just as I also felt that Gen. Constand Viljoen was a much more honest leader than the wily FW de Klerk. At least that's what Mandela thought as he could not stand FW during the negotiations for a new SA.