What Architectural or Urban Design features of your city would you like to see change?

I do not mean ugly buildings, but elements that cast a negative feel or damage an area's potential.

For example. I would much prefer it if the Marine parade along the beachfront was a pedestrian only route with greater use of streetfront cafes and life, than the crazy car infested road it is, which damages the relaxed holiday vibe the area should have.

I also would want the railway line that cuts off the harbour waterfront from the Esplanade removed. This may happen when the car terminal moves to Salisbury island. Moving the railway line would make the place more accessible to the public and development could far better integrate both edges.

What are your thoughts?

I agree totally about that railway line. About 15 years ago, my grandparents bought a whole bunch of old photos of late-19th and early-20th century Durban. Some that I've always found most interesting are those taken near the Harbour, when there were several large, nice hotels along Victoria Embankment, and people are shown strolling along the Harbour's edge. The city interacted with the Harbour in a completely different way than it has for decades. They weren't cut off from each other. That railway line just encourages blight by slicing the CBD off from the city's major asset, the Harbour.

The Parades should be closed off. I agree 100%. Over the years, the city announces various closures, but they always seem to be half measures. I walked that stretch of beach every weekday for a school term in 1990, and even though there are now more traffic calming measures in place than there were then, there are also more cars. The half measures just don't work. Close the streets to auto traffic.

On another note, I'd like to see the Magistrate's Courts and SA Police relocated. The city want to build a grand park leading from the CBD/Kingsmead up to King's Park, which is a great idea. But who wants to walk past those ugly buildings? Even more importantly, who wants to walk past the alleged and convicted criminals (and attorneys :lol:) in those ugly buildings? (Cape Town has a similar problem with the courts along Queen Victoria St., across from Company Gardens. Great place to park the car, get out and walk, but it's a shame whom you have to walk by to get there.)

CT has the biggest scar/ planning disaster of any SA city with that horrible foreshore elevated freeway. Need to do what Boston did and put it all underground.
In Durbs the central and Greyvill train stations are a bit of a joke, totally disconnected from the city wher people are trying to get to

The little Tuscany aspect of all SA cities.

And in Joburg, particularly, I would like the railway lines coming out of Park Stations to be sunk, and for a huge park to be built over it, one that is safe and that add a much needed piece of green to the inner city.

I'd like them to do something with that massive car park in front of Addington!

Possibly the thing I hate most is the huge walls topped with electric wire that surround most major cluster home developments in SA. No matter how nice these developments may be inside the security is a hideous eyesore in every SA city. I'd like to see these developed in such a way that they are incorporated into their surrounding areas instead of being fortresses that block everyone out. Laser beams would be a far less instrusive and more effective barrier and go some way in breaking down the divide between communities.

^^ i think the best usage of "hidden" electric fencing is all security around the la lucia ridge office parks. there are no walls. merely wide and deep water features with the electric fencing over them, paralel to the ground, so it doesnt stand up and damage the area.

With modern technology i feel that the lazer beam systems can help do away with the wall. a wall hides whats going on behind it so no one will ever see who is trying to break into your house.

I agree totally about that railway line. About 15 years ago, my grandparents bought a whole bunch of old photos of late-19th and early-20th century Durban. Some that I've always found most interesting are those taken near the Harbour, when there were several large, nice hotels along Victoria Embankment, and people are shown strolling along the Harbour's edge. The city interacted with the Harbour in a completely different way than it has for decades. They weren't cut off from each other. That railway line just encourages blight by slicing the CBD off from the city's major asset, the Harbour.

The Parades should be closed off. I agree 100%. Over the years, the city announces various closures, but they always seem to be half measures. I walked that stretch of beach every weekday for a school term in 1990, and even though there are now more traffic calming measures in place than there were then, there are also more cars. The half measures just don't work. Close the streets to auto traffic.

On another note, I'd like to see the Magistrate's Courts and SA Police relocated. The city want to build a grand park leading from the CBD/Kingsmead up to King's Park, which is a great idea. But who wants to walk past those ugly buildings? Even more importantly, who wants to walk past the alleged and convicted criminals (and attorneys :lol:) in those ugly buildings? (Cape Town has a similar problem with the courts along Queen Victoria St., across from Company Gardens. Great place to park the car, get out and walk, but it's a shame whom you have to walk by to get there.)

Where we gonna move the court? i really dont have a problem with that building. it needs a revamp cos inside is falling apart, but outside is not overly hideous.

urrgh...culemborg needs to be upgraded along with the elevated highways that cut off the city for the harbour. Won't underground cost too much?

i have a major problem with the railway lines section and the old railway station around the Nelson Mandela Bridge. That whole section needs urgent attention. The bridge improved things slightly but it would be best if the railway lines were run underground and only emerge after the M1 highway bridge and the whole lot is developed into some highrises. The Old railway station can be kept for heritage purposes but please if someone could spruce it up and make a nice pub in there!!! Now as for Hillbrow and Yeoville, that's another story there that needs a lot of work.

And please could someone out there bring back Small Street, it used to be one of my best shopping streets and spruce up Carlton centre.
The whole park station area including the taxi ranks behind it really need a lot of work too. I hope the Gautrain station will help to bring much needed investment around that whole area.

[QUOTE=dysan1;12875668
I also would want the railway line that cuts off the harbour waterfront from the Esplanade removed. This may happen when the car terminal moves to Salisbury island. Moving the railway line would make the place more accessible to the public and development could far better integrate both edges.[/QUOTE]

I agree that this line is a bit of a barrier between the city and the harbour area. However, when I was there last we spent the afternoon in a funky Jazz cafe near Charlie Crofts (not sure on names it was about 2 years ago). While there I was thinking how this part of the waterfront and the point development could be integrated by using the existing rail line to run a shuttle between the two developments. NOT a metrorail operated shuttle (hell no) but rather a more touristy one that is cheap - so locals use it a lot too. This would link both developments and make use of the line.

The whole park station area including the taxi ranks behind it really need a lot of work too. I hope the Gautrain station will help to bring much needed investment around that whole area.


It's terrible hey! The whole Brickfields initiative, as well as Newtown and the Nelson Mandela bridge is largely redundant because it's surrounded by this area that is filfthy! What do you think about a park over the area, Kulani?

A new park would be great for this area seeing that Joubert park is gone to the dogs, LOL. And we probably will never be able to visit Joubert Park in the near future, until the regeneration manages to reach that part of the world.

^^ i personally see parks as CRITICALLY important to any PROPER functioning city. Your public interactive spaces define the city. We need to bring these back from the inward malls.

Durban and CT are lucky in that the Beach/Harbour areas are major public places, but Joburg with its large population should really have largeer public zones. A big park would go a long way to achieving that, best perhaps if it was developed into a lifestyle attraction (with some cafes, music...atmosphere!!), but PROPERLY secured.

I agree that this line is a bit of a barrier between the city and the harbour area. However, when I was there last we spent the afternoon in a funky Jazz cafe near Charlie Crofts (not sure on names it was about 2 years ago). While there I was thinking how this part of the waterfront and the point development could be integrated by using the existing rail line to run a shuttle between the two developments. NOT a metrorail operated shuttle (hell no) but rather a more touristy one that is cheap - so locals use it a lot too. This would link both developments and make use of the line.


Well that is the current council plan. For The Vic embankment and Point to link up. Hopefully someone will convince the ports to move the rail sooner rather than later. I think water taxis would be great!! Cos the view of the city from the harbour is fantastic.

I would like to see the area around the work shop developed & be part of the CBD, the openland they got just lying there is really an eyesore & could be intergrated into the CBD quite well, currently its used for the car bin market & some other crap. Also the so called "parking" opp DEC, I would like to see a multi storey public car park built there for the DEC which can also be used for the Kingsmead Cricket ground.

cant comments on durbs or ct

but i wish joburg would have more large artworks in the public spaces (and not cheap shit) - like the ones in spain that are a couple of stories tall etc and buildings like gaudi.where its about design and not cost..

secondly, away with the concrete! aaaah

but i wish joburg would have more large artworks in the public spaces (and not cheap shit) - like the ones in spain that are a couple of stories tall etc and buildings like gaudi.where its about design and not cost..


There have been some small initiatives, notably by the Joburg Development Agency (JDA) in Newtown. For instance, if you drive around you'll see a number of small head sculptures lining the road, and outside the Metro Mall there is some arb female statue. Also, the renaming of the steets has I think been quite clever, as they have named them after musicians, such as Miriam Makeba Street. It adds to Newtown's feel as a cultural precinct.

http://www.joburg-archive.co.za/images_2007/apr/jda_tour5.jpg

That's another example.. It's a statue of Brenda Fassie, also in Newtown.

And the city (in conjunction with Cell C) have worked together to create the largest outdoor art exhibit in the world, by affixing huge artworks 'billboard style' on to buildings, such as this one...

http://files.photojerk.com/joburg/CIMG2348.JPG

So i think a lot of credit must be given to the city, but still a lot more can be done, and I'd actually place a lot more blame on private developers who develop with no thought about sprucing about the surrounding areas!

Thats great!

Where we gonna move the court? i really dont have a problem with that building. it needs a revamp cos inside is falling apart, but outside is not overly hideous.

I think both buildings (Magistrate's Court and Police HQ) look ugly. But beauty's in the eye of the beholder. Even worse than the architecture, however, are the 'clients'. The city shouldn't want 2010 visitors to have to walk past 2 blocks of loitering defendants out on bail, or barbed wire and high walls at Police HQ. It's not a welcoming sight.

It's probably too late to do anything about it in time for 2010, but I think both buildings should have been relocated to the area just south of the main railway station and west of the Old Fort. (I circled an area in yellow on the picture below.) That way they remain close to a public transport hub, but would no longer sit adjacent to a major visitors' route. Plus, I think that land is already owned by the city.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p208/c_labate/CourtandPoliceHQ.jpg

^^ the land above is already the home to many city departments, the metro police and so forth and has no room for any new facilities.

The Magistrates court is a Massive building, as is the Central Police Station. Both are State owned while the yellow circled area is city owned. The Magistrates is undergoing a revamp and expansion, so i really doubt it will ever move. Also, where is all the "barbed wire" you go on about? And the "loitering defendants" are not on the Stanger street side, but on the other side of the building. Stanger street side is just the grassed "gardens".

Secondly, the cities' "Hero's walk" is nowhere near these buildings, so "1000s of 2010 visitors" will not be walking near this area in any likelihood. "Hero's Walk" starts at Argyle road and follows NMR avenue (i have no clue what its new name is or even how to pronounce it and will never use it) to the stadium. It is only 500m long or so and abutts the railway lines.

While i do not think that in the present tourist era they should be in the area they are in, one has to realise that there are actually in the best area's for the jobs they serve. Very close to highways and major routes as well as transport infrastructure.

Look at the wall around the Police HQ. It's had barbed wire on top of it for years. (As it should, given its function.) And drive by the courts on a weekday morning, and you'll see defendants coming, going & standing. (Again, it's a court, so those activities should take place.)

The Heroes' Walk begins officially up at Argyle, but how will people staying near the ICC and in the CBD get to that point? Since the city's discouraging car transport for fans, many fans will walk. If you're walking from the ICC to the proposed Heroes Walk, then walking past the courts & police HQ is the easiest route. If fans don't walk, then they'll all have to be let out of cars & taxis on Argyle, turning a major east-west route into a carpark before each sporting event.

I picked the land in the yellow circle because it's city-owned. If the city wanted to move the courts & cops away from their present locations, then another government-owned plot is the most sensible place. Again, if the city wanted the buildings moved, the existing municipal services could also be moved to another location. The city vs. national government distinction is a distinction without a difference at present (and for the foreseeable future). When you come down to it, when one party controls every level of government, a land swap should be simple to arrange as long as it's what the ANC wants.

You're correct that the courts & police should be near highways & public transport. The site I selected is just as near to the railway station, and closer to the N3, but a few blocks farther from the M4. All in all, I'd say it's a wash.

This is a dream thread, right? I don't see the city moving either the courts or the police, but I'm just dreaming. Apparently they see no problem with the buildings as presently located, and time is short before 2010. But if the city wanted to make a change (a change I think should be made), then there are options.

^^ i agree there are options. i just dont see the problems. The majority of people will use a form of shuttle service from their hotels most likely anyway. Also i'd think NMR would be the chosen walk route since it starts at the ICC area anyway and will be straight all the way to the venue. While on stanger you would have to cross to nmr at the freeway interchange. But thats off the point. Its good to dream of amazing Police Headquarters and Magistrates courts. Would costs billions unfortunately.

If money is no object i'm sure their of millions of things i'd do first tho...VIC embankment and the back of south beach to cbd would be one. create wider pavements and a clearly defined pedestrian precinct (like they are doing with Africa Square around the ICC)

1. Massive redevelopment of the Culemborg site of close to 80ha, stretching from observatory to the CBD. A combination of an urban park, improved transport network into the city and a mix of sports and residential components.

2. A massive urban park centred around the athlone stadium and its surrounding sports facilities

3.Pedestrianizing the entire stretch of Long Street

4. Connecting the Roggebaai Canal to other parts of the CBD

5. Moving the existing CBD train station to the Culemborg Area just outside the CBD

6. Another huge urban park at Wingfield integrating century city, and all its developments.