How it used to look.

http://galeb.etf.bg.ac.yu/~mirad/Stadioni/wembley.jpg

Gone are the sweeping rows of fans which created what was a special atmosphere. Instead we have numerous levels and sections, punctuated by concrete, wide isles and huge entrances/exits at ground/pitch level.

As for the 117(?) steps that disappear up to the Royal Box. What a joke.

Externally is OK. Internally it's to fussy. I'm sorry, but a great opportunity has been missed. It isn't a patch on the Allianz Arena.

Ridiculous to judge a stadium on one very shit game and especially if you haven't even been there, a better game would have seen a better atmosphere.

What makes the Allianz Arena internally better than Wembley?

As for the royal box steps, how do you suggest people get up there then?, a lift?, magic carpet?, what?

I would like to see you design a stadium that holds 90,000 in one large tier and actually have half decent facilities for spectators. You're remembering the illusion that the old wembley was such as great place.

The result today hasn't played a part in your bad mood has it?

I think the stadium is outstanding. It looks fantastic either coming up wembley way, or viewing from the North. Internally it has really grown on me.

Internally, its just gigantic, the steepness of the teers, and the bowl shape is ingenius. The Old Wembley was shit, end of story, we over-rated it. Yes it had tradition, and the FA cup actually meant something back then. Dare I say it the fans were also fans of real football.

I think considering the baffling ticket allocation. Only 50,000 to genuine fans (season ticket holders), that they atmosphere was excellent (40,000 tickets to neutrals? It should be more like 10,000, with 80,000 fans). Yes the game wasn't a classic, but hey, if you expect 4-3 matches every game then you shouldn't be watching football.

John Motson was throwing his toys out of the pram today like a little child. When I was younger I used to get annoyed with 0-0's, would go outside and kick a ball about in the garden. It sounded like he was the 7yr old.

Football is about moments of magic making the difference in a tense game made up of tough individual, physical and tactical battles. Not stepovers, rugby scores, comical defending, or fancy coloured boots.

The scenes at the end of the game were outstanding. I look forward to the England v Brazil game, that will hopefully be catered towards the fan and not the neutrals (which i well be attending)

Like potto says, Wembley is not just a football stadium, it has been designed to cater for everything, and I personally think its going to become legendary.

I was watching the build-up on the Beeb (had to switch to sky for the in-game commentary) and was reduced to tears.

Stadiums like the Allianz will always have an edge over national multi-purpose stadiums, because they are designed solely for football!. Smaller stadiums also retain noise much easily. Are you suggesting we should of just copied the Allianz? That would of been original, not.

What we have got for the tiny amount of public money, is quite something.

Tip for any future matches that you watch on tele. Turn the volume up! TV microphones cannot replicate the match atmosphere! They would of needed thousands in there in every section of the stadium to actually produce a true representation.

The pitch is disappointing, but considering the groundsmen were only allowed to work on it at the end of march, it is understandable.

Overall a fantastic stadium, most of the point that I was going to say have been said by Peyre. And I agree the old stadium was well over rated.The only downside about the stadium is the teams going up all those steps to the royal box, that could of been better designed IMO. One thing is certain though, no matter what people of the press say about it, Wembley has really got a bright future in football.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42914000/jpg/_42914333_brightfuture_page5.jpg

I really like the long walk up. Firstly, seeing United players look so dejected was class viewing in itself :D.

It also gives the victorious players a more intimate relationship with the fans, as they can get close, pat them on the back and get autographs etc. It also allows the players to view the stadium from the fans point of view.

Plus it's traditional. Lots of people have moaned about it loosing the tradition, and yet in reality the stadium has still kept alot of the old charm IMO.

The old Wembley was sacred, a sacred shit hole, and I reckon the 66 world cup win there will always keep in long in the memory. Times are a changing, and football stadiums have to adapt. Wembley will host many an event that will not only get the football world talking, but the politicians, music fans, American football fans etc etc

I give the whole occasion a 7/10

it wasn't a 10/10 because it wasn't a high scoring match, the ticket allocation was messed up and the pitch wasn't brilliant, but honestly they are minor details (apart from the ticket situation). I feel the FA will eventually improve on that. The showpiece opening event would always attract the corporations and the 'FA family' as they like to be called.

oh and JRR have you been to the Allianz?

Way Over rated and over priced. ave to say I liked old Wembley just the way it was. i could also say that for Hampden, liked it before they mucked it up in the 90's

explain why ffs

The old Wembley was shit, a rusting concrete dump, with bad sightlines, even worse seating, bad facilities, and just as overpriced as the new Wembley, and it stank of piss. Tradition was all it had going for it. It was an embarassment. Now I shall remove everyones rose tinted glasses.

I have been to two FA cup finals, a league cup final and 3 internationals at Wembley, and the England under 21 game at the new Wembley, and the new place just sends fire though you when you first walk into the bowl, TV cannot do it justice. Pitch is shit though. The twin towers will be fondly remembered in my eyes, but not missed.

I'm not a massive football fan.

But from an unbiased point of view, the only redeeming feature of the old wembley where the twin towers - and even they where made out of cheap plaster. The rest of the stadium was butt ugly and looked small, old and delapidated on TV.

This new stadium has some wow factor to, the arch is far more impressive than the twin towers and the sheer size and scale is amazing.

However, as a fan said when being interviewed - the atmosphere is great, the arch is fantastic....but the outside looks a little like a shopping centre. I would agree with this, its a little dull -but 10 times better than the old one.

Watched the match today and looked at the stadium more than the game to be honest (didn't miss much in terms of football quality). I think Wembley has been well worth the wait and I love it. It looks fucking massive.
I remember flying back from Paris last July and flying directly over and seeing it from the window of the plane and it looked huge even from that height. Everything else looked tiny compared to it.
It not only holds the record for having the most toilets at 2000 and something it's also the worlds tallest stadium at around 400ft (the arch) and thats pretty impressive.

isnt the british leg of the live earth concerts being held there in july.. it'l certainly have an atmosphere then

I really like the long walk up. Firstly, seeing United players look so dejected was class viewing in itself :D.

It also gives the victorious players a more intimate relationship with the fans, as they can get close, pat them on the back and get autographs etc. It also allows the players to view the stadium from the fans point of view.

Plus it's traditional. Lots of people have moaned about it loosing the tradition, and yet in reality the stadium has still kept alot of the old charm IMO.

The old Wembley was sacred, a sacred shit hole, and I reckon the 66 world cup win there will always keep in long in the memory. Times are a changing, and football stadiums have to adapt. Wembley will host many an event that will not only get the football world talking, but the politicians, music fans, American football fans etc etc

I give the whole occasion a 7/10

it wasn't a 10/10 because it wasn't a high scoring match, the ticket allocation was messed up and the pitch wasn't brilliant, but honestly they are minor details (apart from the ticket situation). I feel the FA will eventually improve on that. The showpiece opening event would always attract the corporations and the 'FA family' as they like to be called.

oh and JRR have you been to the Allianz?

To be honest, no I haven't Peyre. I just prefer the look and the feel of the Allianz compared to the new Wembley. Allianz is a proper football stadium, if you know what I mean. BTW, I'm not trying to say the old Wembley is a patch on the new one. It isn't. The new Wembley is a million times better. However, it's just to fussy and disjointed internally.

These two Allianz pictures illustrate my point perfectly.

http://www.livesoccertv.com/world-cup-2006/images/venues/large/Munich.jpg

http://www.nickelinstitute.org/multimedia/nickel_and_its_uses/nickel_magazine/archives/2006/March_2006_Vol._21_2/soccer/Allianz-interior-pm-450.jpg

To be honest, no I haven't Peyre. I just prefer the look and the feel of the Allianz compared to the new Wembley. Allianz is a proper football stadium, if you know what I mean. BTW, I'm not trying to say the old Wembley is a patch on the new one. It isn't. The new Wembley is a million times better. However, it's just to fussy and disjointed internally.

These two Allianz pictures illustrate my point perfectly.

http://www.livesoccertv.com/world-cup-2006/images/venues/large/Munich.jpg

http://www.nickelinstitute.org/multimedia/nickel_and_its_uses/nickel_magazine/archives/2006/March_2006_Vol._21_2/soccer/Allianz-interior-pm-450.jpg


But a 'fish-eye' lens does help give that bowl-look, doesn't it.

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/F0F70BF8-239E-45B9-847D-FC5134852A2A/109339/Wembley_view_L.jpg

But a 'fish-eye' lens does help give that bowl-look, doesn't it.

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/F0F70BF8-239E-45B9-847D-FC5134852A2A/109339/Wembley_view_L.jpg

http://www.livesoccertv.com/world-cup-2006/images/venues/large/Munich.jpg

Thanks Future. You've just proved my point. :)

its people like jrb (not so much) and especially Mr B with the ultra conservative 'we dont want change' who are the cause of a lot of the problems in the UK and it seriously pisses me off. i bet you read your papers and just have a little s****** to yourself when another major project gets delayed, you will moan and moan about how the countrys going down the pan and things arent like they used to be and we cant build things like we used so when its your damn pessimistic attitude which creates half of the mess!

rant over.

Wembley isn't just a football stadium JRR. It was always going to compromise to hold other events. I think we could of made Wembley even better with a few changes. But I'm very happy with what we now have.

I actually really like the bowl shape because we don't have anything like it in the country! Wembley is meant to be unique to every other stadium in England.

Allianz is a club stadium, thus it will cater for football. Wembley is a national stadium that caters for different events and people other than season ticket holders.

Now, looking at those two fish eyed pictures, they look quite similar! So Wembley has managed quite well considering the factors they had to consider, it also holds more, and has better facilities.. The Allianz is certainly more striking on the outside, but it doesn't look like a stadium on the outside.

The Wembley pitch is quite poor at the moment, because before the groundsmen even got a chance to fine tune it, people were playing on the thing. At the Emirates for example they nearly had a whole year to polish it up to standards before a game was played.

I reckon this time next year the Wembley pitch will be the best in the world.

the aa is for football only and still has many faults, just look at the pic you posted and the nasty shadow on the pitch, if it was a solid shadow wouldn't be so bad but that is just awful and most german stadiums are like that as we saw in world cup, even franz beck says wembley is greatest in world.

Wembley - nice in the inside, boot ugly on the outside. Overall - a bit dissapointing for the money.

For fucks sake wembley holds 24 thousand more than Allianz, try fitting that extra 24k into Allianz's design and still keep it looking good

its people like jrb (not so much) and especially Mr B with the ultra conservative 'we dont want change' who are the cause of a lot of the problems in the UK and it seriously pisses me off. i bet you read your papers and just have a little s****** to yourself when another major project gets delayed, you will moan and moan about how the countrys going down the pan and things arent like they used to be and we cant build things like we used so when its your damn pessimistic attitude which creates half of the mess!

rant over.


Not at all Republica. Just because I prefer Allianz doesn't mean I'm ultra conservative, pessimistic, or don't want change. :lol: Far from it. Yes, Wembley looks impressive, but for £800 million it could have and should have been a lot better. It's saving grace is the fantastic arch.

what an idiot, you think the actual stadium cost 800m its no wonder your dissapointed lol basically you know fuck all what your talking about

what an idiot, you think the actual stadium cost 800m its no wonder your dissapointed lol basically you know fuck all what your talking about

Surrey.

You must be dissapointed about the result. Don't worry, you'll get to attened another match at Old Trafford next season. BTW. Don't forget your camera and your mega store bag. :wink2:

Heh, I've just noticed that shadow over Allianz. Dreadful!

As I posted in the world section.

A selection of photos from yesterday.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/505821498_413563da81_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/201/505849411_0ebe519c24_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/197/505846583_e2de6757cf_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/218/505618964_e18fa7f88a_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/223/505648061_50a305c2f6_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/505639925_83a8271453_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/190/505640679_c396ed7f1c_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/219/506033656_4c35da319f_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/219/505937725_aa9b9d952e_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/506075589_016de24d26_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/225/505609298_fb2f489539_o.jpg

I can't believe how high the north and south stands are looking at those photos! Wouldn't want vertigo if you had those tickets!

Wembley is AWESOME, i've been there and it was great, ill rather have this 90,000 monster then the Allianz anyday(its pretty dull on the inside where it all matters):D

Even Twickenham stadium looks better on the inside then the Allianz
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5945/42948633twickers416qr9.jpg

From the BBC website, 2 superb London stadiums shown off in one weekend[/QUOTE]

Is it just me or does that ramp on Wembley Way leading up to the stadium look like some old drab Concrete monster from the 60's.

Is it just me or does that ramp on Wembley Way leading up to the stadium look like some old drab Concrete monster from the 60's.

That will be demolished

Is it just me or does that ramp on Wembley Way leading up to the stadium look like some old drab Concrete monster from the 60's.

tradition....:lol:

cheers Sparks, some awesome pictures there. It is staggering. Honestly can't wait for the England-Brazil game!!!!:banana: I will be quite high up, where the best views of the stadium are. Will be taking plenty of pics. Hopefully the crowd puts on a performance to try to inspire such a dull England side :D

The view you get from even the top tier is amazing!

wow those pics look mental. It looks so much taller than in other photos. I look forward to a night match when i think it will be a much more special arena.

as usual,excellent pics from Sparks
Thought Wembley was the star of the show Saturday(not hard considering the awful match)
I'm a big fan of this staduim,but i do wonder if they might slightly alter a few things over the years,a bit of fine tuning if you like,as they recieve feedback.
a few things i'd like to see
the players coming out of that tunnel in the corner where the legends came out from..one of the few good things about the old staduim was the long walk up the tunnel,and across the pitch,waving to freinds and family in the stands.This might be difficult,considering the position of the changing rooms
perhaps the royal box might be located on the bottom tier,towrads the back,looking down at the dougouts(if you can call them that now)like the old stadium...
they might consider shifting the pitch north,if this issue with the roof can't be solved.That might help with the shadow across the pitch
any ideas of the size of the pitch,in comparision to other 's,especially in the Prem league..just wonder if the pitch could be made a bit bigger,so the fans are a bit nearer the action...
all in all,a wonderful staduim..

The fans are too far away from the pitch and each other.

There are too many corporate seats and worst of all they split the the two banks of seats containing the genuine fans in half. Atmosphere is poor as a result.

Like the Emirates and COMs it is a soulless concrete bowl designed for free loading corporates and middle class football fans who like to have a burger and fries with their "football experience". City couldn't really help it as their ground was built for the Commonwealth games, but the other two have no such excuse.

It personifies the Americanisation of the game and the FAs( Ken Bates) contempt for real fans which can also be seen in the ticket allocation and prices.

And it should have been 100,000 and built in Birmingham.

I do like the continuous red seating and the Arch though.

Amazing pics sparks - they really show the scale of the place.

One thing I don't like about the new Wembley is the way the front of the upper tier has been "cut back" on one side to fit in another row of boxes - it's not very aesthetically pleasing. The asymmetrical supports for the roof over the ends aren't very pretty either...

what an idiot, you think the actual stadium cost 800m its no wonder your dissapointed lol basically you know fuck all what your talking about

800m is misleading and, at the same time, acurate. Yes the stadium itself did not cost 800m but it shows the huge financial burden that was taken on by locating the National Stadium at Wembley. The project would not have cost 800m elsewhere. As Graham Taylor said on Saturday...

"right stadium, wrong location."

Even in and around London, there must have been better spots to pitch this particular tent.

People can't seem to offer any better location when they complain about Wembley. It is a lot easier getting to and away from Wembley than it is from Cardiff, yet it wasn't until the last couple of years that we heard any complaints about that.

Fact is getting 90,000 away fans, as that is what they really are, to game is always going to be tricky. Only a handfull of other stadiums in the world can claim to have three railway stations within 1/2 a mile of the ground. The plans in the midlands invovled most people getting to the ground by car, can you imagine what the traffic would be like and where would people park? especially if it was located out of town.

"right stadium, wrong location."


perfect stadium perfect location

i bet you wont see many saying the outside is ugly when the rest of the development is finished with all the new buildings and twin towers going up and the arch is blooming out of the high rise buildings, things can only get better for wembley and its already the dogs bollocks!

800m is misleading and, at the same time, acurate. Yes the stadium itself did not cost 800m but it shows the huge financial burden that was taken on by locating the National Stadium at Wembley. The project would not have cost 800m elsewhere. As Graham Taylor said on Saturday...

"right stadium, wrong location."

Even in and around London, there must have been better spots to pitch this particular tent.

If people actually did what the FA advised them to do, I.E park far away from the stadium with access to public transport, or even take a mainland train direct. Instead of being so stubbornly selfish, things would go smoothly. And yes, the majority did actually follow this advice on Saturday. Everyone got away rather easy. Probably helped by the fact that one of the finalists was a London team.

Where do you suggest it was built? People have thrown various city names about, but no real locations.

London has several airports with excellent links into the areas, it has the channel tunnel, and the largest public transportation system in the world. Birmingham has shitty congested motorways and an airport with a insignificant capacity. Ditto for Manchester. Cars, Cars, Cars. It was hardly going to win over the eco-warriors eh?

The same people that moan about lost traditions, advocate building the thing somewhere other than Wembley!:bash:

Beautiful. Clean lines, sweeping roof, terraces, seats, order. Perfect. :)

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5945/42948633twickers416qr9.jpg

Like the Emirates and COMs it is a soulless concrete bowl designed for free loading corporates and middle class football fans who like to have a burger and fries with their "football experience".


Copied and pasted from other peoples posts no doubt. I hear the same thing over and over again from killjoys, and you really are reading from the exact same hymn sheet. Honestly.

Beautiful. Clean lines, sweeping roof, terraces, seats, order. Perfect. :)

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5945/42948633twickers416qr9.jpg

There haven't been any terraces at Twickenham since 1994 :)

Copied and pasted from other peoples posts no doubt. I hear the same thing over and over again from killjoys, and you really are reading from the exact same hymn sheet. Honestly.

I was asked for my opinion mate, and gave it. I think it's impressively large, but to me it ain't a football stadium. Bit of a design flaw really.

Beautiful. Clean lines, sweeping roof, terraces, seats, order. Perfect. :)

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5945/42948633twickers416qr9.jpg

Perfect Location for another world class stadium, (in London);)

As for Wembley's Location it could only ever have been WEMBLEY. Stop moaning, London is one of the most (probably The most)connected city in the world, which cant be said for Brum or Manc, Also more or less every year a London team is in the final, sometimes two. so it all makes sense, eases congestion.

What's the point of being the most connected city in the world if it's a pain in the arse to reach from elsewhere in your own country?

What's the point of being the most connected city in the world if it's a pain in the arse to reach from elsewhere in your own country?

It's not though, is it. It's the best-connected city in the UK domestically, too(which is one of the things non-Londoners always moan about).

Most of the population of England lives within two hours train journey distance from London, with direct connections from just about every major town or city. On top of that, about 10m people are directly served by London's local transport infrastructure.

I've travelled up to Old Trafford for a number of England games and it was gridlock back to London every time - sometimes 8 hours.

The Mancs are bitter with envy of London's stadium and victory in the FA Cup final. They say it's "not a proper stadium" and "full of middle class wankers" blah blah.... pure envy. I think it's far superior to the Allianz Arena. It's much larger and more architecturally impressive both inside and out. Sparks your photos rule: :)

As I posted in the world section.

A selection of photos from yesterday.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/199/505821498_413563da81_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/201/505849411_0ebe519c24_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/197/505846583_e2de6757cf_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/218/505618964_e18fa7f88a_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/223/505648061_50a305c2f6_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/505639925_83a8271453_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/190/505640679_c396ed7f1c_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/219/506033656_4c35da319f_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/219/505937725_aa9b9d952e_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/231/506075589_016de24d26_b.jpg

I think it looks great, can't see what the fuss is about. As a place to go and watch a game its facilities are superior to those of Allianz. I admit to being a bit disappointed with the exterior of Wembley, grey corporate panels are a bit drab, Allianz on the other hand really does it for me in the Architectural stakes. Given the breif for Wembley to accommodate so much more than the Allianz I think it is an incredible triumph. To be honest they are both superb and far better than all that American dross you see ;)

Its hard to imagine that these stadia hold the equivelent of the entire population of a medium sized town!

I don't think the full potential of the stadium will be unlocked until the surrounding masterplan is complete. Once then, the area will become a new Wembley 'village' for spectators willing to hang around before and after a game and create a lively atmosphere around the stadium as well.

^ I agree about the masterplan. Right now Wembley is let down by its surroundings. However I think the exterior is also more impressive than Allianz. I love the lightness and grace of the arch. Allianz looks like a blobby airship next to this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/London/WembleyNight.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/London/303143449_6e339cc734_b.jpg

I don't think the full potential of the stadium will be unlocked until the surrounding masterplan is complete. Once then, the area will become a new Wembley 'village' for spectators willing to hang around before and after a game and create a lively atmosphere around the stadium as well.



for anybody coming from the north or west of the country,may i suggest driving to one of the Met Line stations,and enjoying a drink there.I live in Pinner,which is about 15 mins from Wembley Park.Its a lovely olde world village,with loads of nice pubs,and plenty of parking,especially at the station.

Wembley looks impressive as a building, but as an arena to watch football in I have heard it was terrible:

All seater, extortionately expensive, disjointed, plush toilets (waste of money) ridiulous arch that looks good, but probably cost the earth...

None of the above are what football fans want. In most of these respects the Allianz Arena and The Millennium Stadium (as the two obvious examples to compare it against) are infinately superioir. I had friends in the Man Utd end on saturday, real fans, followed the club all over europe who said it was the worst atmosphere they have know for a big game, and that the finals in recent years have been far better occasions, and far better days out.

Now I'm a supporter of Wembley, I believe the national stadium should be in London, not Birmingham, and the size is impressive, but it's just a big fat corporate jizzfest that cares not a jot about the real fans. I can't wait to go and 'experience' the new wembley, taste the aberdeen angus burgers, hear the PA system and marvel at the leg room and quality of the bog paper, but I know I'm not the only one who wishes that there had been more delays so that the final could've been on loan to Cardiff a few more years.

Stadium design 7/10
Iconic factor 9/10
Location 7/10
Atmosphere 3/10

What's the timeline for the redevelopment of the surrounding area?

None of the above are what football fans want.

I couldn't care less what real football fans want. This stadium is for more than just 'real football fans'.

Wembley looks impressive as a building, but as an arena to watch football in I have heard it was terrible:

All seater, extortionately expensive, disjointed, plush toilets (waste of money) ridiulous arch that looks good, but probably cost the earth...

None of the above are what football fans want. In most of these respects the Allianz Arena and The Millennium Stadium (as the two obvious examples to compare it against) are infinately superioir. I had friends in the Man Utd end on saturday, real fans, followed the club all over europe who said it was the worst atmosphere they have know for a big game, and that the finals in recent years have been far better occasions, and far better days out.

Now I'm a supporter of Wembley, I believe the national stadium should be in London, not Birmingham, and the size is impressive, but it's just a big fat corporate jizzfest that cares not a jot about the real fans. I can't wait to go and 'experience' the new wembley, taste the aberdeen angus burgers, hear the PA system and marvel at the leg room and quality of the bog paper, but I know I'm not the only one who wishes that there had been more delays so that the final could've been on loan to Cardiff a few more years.

Stadium design 7/10
Iconic factor 9/10
Location 7/10
Atmosphere 3/10Jealous of Wembley and pissed off that the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff will no longer be Britain's best stadium and will no longer host the FA Cup final. ;)

[/QUOTE]I couldn't care less what real football fans want. This stadium is for more than just 'real football fans'. [/QUOTE]

Jealous of Wembley and pissed off that the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff will no longer be Britain's best stadium and will no longer host the FA Cup final. ;)

What a couple of laughable quotes...! Firstly, if you dont care what real football fans think then shame on you, and what a sad and pathetic indictment of modern football and the pricks that run it. Entitled to your opinion of course, but these opinions give developers a bad name. I wonder if you couldnt give two hoots about the people of East london with regards to the developments surrounding the Olympics?

Pissed off? No. Jealous, yeah, of course and so is everyone. Who wouldnt love to have the FA cup final in their city? Cardiff has been lucky, and it was a bonus, but I am talking about the stadium, of which I have heard good things design wise and terrible things from a fans perspective. After the jizzfest has died down then Wembley will have to rely on issues that are important to fans and if you think a flashy arch will do that you are mistaken..

Let me stress again that I am talking about the stadium, the city it is in is nothing to do with it, because I passionately believe that the English national stadium should be at Wembley and that FA Cup finals should be at Wembley. got it!!??

^ The people of East London want the Olympics. Beckham, who was born in the area, said the Games would provide a huge boost:

"I've got friends that have got children that are growing up in the East End of London and they're already saying to me to have the Olympics in our manor would be a special thing for kids to have inspiration from different athletes from all round the world," he said.

"Our manor". I love that. :)

And as for Wembley having poor atmosphere. I mean what are you on? Just take a look at Sparks's photos. It kicks arse. It's obvious and if you had any grace you'd admit it. :)

I've been reading round these threads for a few days and discovered that..

One person who's been there says the atmosphere is rubbish. And yet another person who's been there says it's incredible.

You can't find out the truth about anything these days can you!? I'm going to have to find out for myself at some point I think!

I know the people of the East end want the games, but their opinions have been considered, and what I'm saying is that it's important that football fans are too, which I am afraid they have not been regarding Wembley.

Surely you are not serious that one lacks grace if they dont sing from the Wembley love-in songsheet?

Re the atmosphere I have heard from many many sources (personal friends, callers on radio, newspaper articles, fans forums etc) that the atmosphere was atrocious on saturday. Granted the game and ticket allocation didnt help, but neither does the stewarding, the pricing, the ground layout, the lack of pubs in the surrounding area etc, and if you want to talk about a stadium in more than just design purposes (which is important to do so) then these are important factors.

Wembley is beautiful to look at, graceful, attractive, awe inspiring, but while these are important, so to is the atmosphere, the right to stand, the right to sing, drink before the game, not feel ripped off etc, and Wembley should improve in that regard in coming years, or else it's going to start looking quite empty for all but the very biggest games.

Jealous of Wembley and pissed off that the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff will no longer be Britain's best stadium and will no longer host the FA Cup final.

so true

One person who's been there says the atmosphere is rubbish. And yet another person who's been there says it's incredible.

person that said it was rubbish wasn't even there and if they were it was probably on community day or the 1 manu fan that was there after 120 minutes :lol:

its pointless even talking about atmosphere when it was just a manu v chelsea game, they are hardly the most liveliest of fans in their own stadiums, but even so, i could still hear a good atmosphere and i'm half death at the moment with ear infection, come here on 1st of june and say it has a crap atmosphere after the england game.
hopefully next fa cup or carling cup will have liverpool and arsenal in the final then it will be a much better game and atmosphere.

so true



person that said it was rubbish wasn't even there and if they were it was probably on community day or the 1 manu fan that was there after 120 minutes :lol:

christ what is it with you lot?!

Okay, I submit, Wembley is amazing, how football survived without it was incredible. Pubs within 20 minutes of a football ground arent important afterall, and who cares if you have to sit in silence when you have a lovely arch and shiny boxes to admire.

Final point, There is mutual gratitude between the FA and Cardiff for the last few years, but no one round here is 'jealous' of the FA cupsreturn to wembley. Likewise if someone from London criticises the Millenium Stadium I'll have the maturity to not shout out..."Well your just jealous that you dont have any 2007 rugby world cup games!" I'm happy to admit that your dad is bigger than my dad on this one.

This forum is pointless if legitimate concerns about the new wembley get shouted down by these little londoners. Personally I cannot wait to go there, but I suspect the day and experience will not live up to the expectations of some becuase for me, and thousands like me a day at the football is characterised more by the surrounding pubs, the banter, the prices and the atmosphere and less by the legroom the shiny seats and the pretty arch.

I've tried to be fair, and now I say no more!

your just bitter james get over it mate, everything you say oozes bitterness even when you point out a good part of the stadium

your just bitter james get over it mate, everything you say oozes bitterness even when you point out a good part of the stadium

Cheers for that. I'm pleased and it's right that the final has gone to Wembley, but yeah your right I'm bitter! So, when I criticised Shrewsburys new ground for being all-seater, identikit and being out of town, that was bitterness too?! Or perhaps an informed and valid opinion that happens to contrast with the views of yourself and most London-centric people?

Theres every chance that in the coming months Cardiff Blues will leave their lovely, atmospheric stadium in the centre of Cardiff to share the new ground on the outskirts of town with Cardiff City. From a stadia perspective I will criticise this move, but it's not bitterness. Do you see? It's not a Cardiff v London thing, I'm pleased the finals are at Wembley where they belong, but I've just not been sold on this whole Wembley project. Sorry.

Stunning pictures, Sparks, absolutely stunning.

I can't fault the design and the sheer size of the place is staggering. The arch is a fitting replacement for the twin towers and a superb piece of engineering too, as it supports the weight of the entire north roof and 60% of the south side. There's not a bad seat in the house and the accoustics seem to be very good, from the matches that have been played there so far. I can't wait for the game against Brazil next month because the place will be rocking. The prices for food and drink are extortionate, but you don't have to buy any of it, and lets face it, football is very pricey in this day and age.

The location couldn't be better either, of course Wembley had to be rebuild, it would be madness not to have, but in terms of actual location there are few better. London is one of the worlds most sought after cities, with great transport links, great places to see, and its a city which is used to dealing with a large volume of people in a short space of time. There's numerous pubs, parks, etc nearby and that'll only get better when the regeneration of the area is complete. Surrounding Wembley itself there will be a hotel, restaurants, pubs, shops, all sorts of leisure facilities, and all of which are ideal for a football fan, where you can mingle before the game as the atmosphere builds and stay behind afterwards for as long as you like at a world-class destination.

The old Wembley was a place that we held dear to our hearts and a place which provided us with so many memories which are a credit to the English game, but we had to move on. It was a crumbling wreck and what has replaced it has been well worth the wait, not everyone will agree, but thats always the case, you can't satisfy everyone. What we have is an iconic venue, which oozes class, with top quality facilities for the fans and a fantastic place to enjoy the game which we love the most, you can't ask for much more. And, here (http://www.wembleystadium.com/brilliantfuture/localcommunity/regneration.htm) is what the area will look like in a few years time, rather spiffing don't you think.

to pick up on your point pyre about mikes in an earlier thread, I have always thought that they should go back to simply using one or two, set to pick up the general hubub and clamour of the stadium.... like in the old days, when the atmosphere came across fine... just watch some 70s' stuff (when the technology was good but the costs steep, so no mikes by the touchline etc).. especially at Anfield!!!!

Another moan that I always thought about with this habit of having mikes around the ground, especially on the pitchside was that to be able to hear the ball being passed, swearing by players etc, was more reminiscent of being at some shitty lower league game on a wet wednesday evening where you could hear that sort of stuff, rather than the likes of Anfield or Whiteheart Lane, where you could not usually even hear yourself think!

Overall impression of Wembley (only from the TV and papers etc).... nice...but sadly a little boring aesthetically.

One thing I don't like about the new Wembley is the way the front of the upper tier has been "cut back" on one side to fit in another row of boxes - it's not very aesthetically pleasing. The asymmetrical supports for the roof over the ends aren't very pretty either...

I actually really like this feature - It breaks up the bowl nicely and gives character as one side is not the same as the other. What is it all these people who want symmetry and perfection? I dont understand it; to me thats plain boring and u could be anywhere. I like distinguishing features (yes i've seen the bloody arch and am talking internally), and don't think it's impossible for a ground to be easy on the eye and still look smart. White Hart Lane is a great example - it's small and butt ugly from the outside, but is beautiful to behold inside, even though there are four very different stands which don't all link up properly.

Also, I think if the FA do decide in years to come to fine tune wembley, the first thing they should do is rip out the pitch and dig down, say 5metres, then continue the lower tier down further. This would mean the stand would be much nearer the pitch and an extra 6-10k.

Perfect Location for another world class stadium, (in London);)

As for Wembley's Location it could only ever have been WEMBLEY. Stop moaning, London is one of the most (probably The most)connected city in the world, which cant be said for Brum or Manc,Also more or less every year a London team is in the final, sometimes two. so it all makes sense, eases congestion.

I read that ^^ this morning, spat my cornflakes out and rolled around the floor laughing. I've only just managed to drag myself back to the keyboard again. My sides are aching. (This guy is a comic genius. It's the most hilarious post I've ever read on SSC)

BTW. So what happened in the 70's 80's and 90's when Liverpool, United and Everton made Wembley their annual FA Cup Final home? (I wish I could add Citeh to that list :ohno:)

Haven't you heard of the carbon footprint?

So would you prefer a stadium ooop north which everyone drives to instead of one in London where most would get the train?

Haven't you heard of the Carbon footprint?

is there a thread on the work going on around the stadium that quintain are doing?

It's hilarious seeing it in 28 Weeks Later. The pitch is overgrown... nice little touch :D

@James Wales, you keep going, you're fully entitled to your opinion, one that I think you've voiced quite calmly given the comments you've faced :)

So would you prefer a stadium ooop north which everyone drives to instead of one in London where most would get the train?

Haven't you heard of the Carbon footprint?

Haven't you heard. There are trains and train stations up North. :nuts:

I would have prefered a national stadium in the Midlands. One we all could have got to much easier.

One we all could have got to much easier.

But the population of the UK isn't spread evenly across its landmass, and the train lines are generally geared towards lines expanding across the UK from the centre London core.

Haven't you heard. There are trains and train stations up North. :nuts:

I would have prefered a national stadium in the Midlands. One we all could have got to much easier.

I don't think your allowed to criticise Wembley in this thread mate, so dont bother.

We have a similar issue in Wales whereby the national stadium is in the far south and hard for North Walians to access. This is especially pertinent with the Welsh football team who have very big support in the gogland (north wales)

Actually though I am opposed to moving things merely because they would be centrally located. I believe only the big finals should be in Wembley, and if you cant be bothered to go to London for it, you can't be much of a fan anyway. That said, with every tinpot event now being staged at Wembley this argument goes out the window, and the cup semi finals should definately always be in a regional city closer to the two teams.

Truely unimpressed by my visit on Saturday.

The toilets around my block (512) were over flowing by the time the game kicked off and the blokes toilets were closed.

Piss everywhere along the corridor - just like the old stadium.

My seat had a partially obscured view of the pitch, when sat in my seat I could not see the close penalty area if I sat back in my seat due to a 'crash' barrier stopping you from falling over the edge of the tier (right by where the large screen was at our end.

Absolutely no idea where £800m has gone on that stadium, miles from the pitch, and to be brutally honest, it is not a patch on the San Siro, a stadium with a very similar capacity, but truely an impressive ground.

Haven't you heard. There are trains and train stations up North. :nuts:

I would have prefered a national stadium in the Midlands. One we all could have got to much easier.

I was under the impression a Birmingham or Manchester stadium would rely pretty much on the nearby motorways. So whilst I do (believe it or not) realise there are railways up north, I would expect a much greater proportion of the crowd would travel by car.

That's why your point about the Carbon footprint of fans getting to Wembley was absurd. The alternatives are much worse.

The majority of teams that played at Wembley over the last 20 years or so were from north of Birmingham, to reduce the foot print you'd propoably put the stadium somewhere near Warrington.

I was under the impression a Birmingham or Manchester stadium would rely pretty much on the nearby motorways. So whilst I do (believe it or not) realise there are railways up north, I would expect a much greater proportion of the crowd would travel by car.

That's why your point about the Carbon footprint of fans getting to Wembley was absurd. The alternatives are much worse.

You couldn't make it up. How times change. :) (the North West's carbon footprint has suddenly been reduced)

More trains to London

24/ 5/2007

MANCHESTER is to become the most important rail destination outside London.

Two major rail operators are unveiling big plans to increase services to Manchester.

Virgin Trains is today announcing it is to run three trains an hour from Manchester to the capital next year - providing an extra 12 services when its new timetable starts in January 2009.

And TransPennine Express says its Manchester services are so in demand that it is asking the government for more carriages to cope with the extra passengers.

Following final improvements to the West Coast Main Line, Virgin's trains will leave Manchester every 20 minutes and will take just over two hours to complete the 184-mile journey to London at an average speed of 89mph and top speeds of 125 mph.

In the rush hour, five trains are planned to arrive in London before 9am - two more than in today's timetable. Virgin expects to provide more than 45 trains each weekday from Piccadilly to Euston.

Virgin's Pendolino trains will also serve Stockport as well as providing a regular hourly service to Macclesfield, Crewe and Milton Keynes.

The new timetable will provide more than 5,000 extra seats between Manchester and London each weekday.

Passengers have complained regularly of overcrowding on the route with standing room only on the most popular services.

And the good news for weekend travellers is that a 20-minute interval service is being planned for much of Saturdays and Sundays.

Tim Shoveller, from Virgin, said: "This is great news for Manchester and the first time that a long distance inter city service has operated at a frequency normally only seen on suburban rail networks.

"With a 20-minute frequency passengers can throw away the timetable."

TransPennine Express, which will take over trains to Scotland from Virgin CrossCountry next year, is experiencing a boom in travel to Manchester Airport.

A spokesman said: "We have asked for a share of the thousand extra carriages which the government announced.
"We have seen an increase of 30 per cent in the number of passengers since December, 2004. Our trains are crowded but not yet overcrowded and it makes sense to plan now for even more passengers"

Convenient timing :D

Convenient timing :D

Indeed Rob.

All aboard. :)

this is still my favourite picture of new wembley:

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/1724/12154997ta5.jpg

I love how people just expect the stadium to create atmosphere on its own. Any other fans in there other than the gloryhunters and it would of been ace. The United fans were terrible for a team that had just won the premiership. The only notable thing they did was to boo everyone of the legends that came on to the pitch that weren't connected with Utd. The Chelsea fans were silent as usual but wen't mental at the final whistle.

^^ Exactly - and people also complaining about the price of Burgers/Chips etc..as if its the Stadiums fault they are so high.

Not being able to afford to stuff your face with fatty, poor quality food should not detract from the actual stadium itself and the sheer impressiveness of it. And in any case, the food in any major stadium is going to pricey - if you really can't get through 90mins of not eating then just take your own food.

roll on june 1st then we'll hear the true atmosphere and a few thousand brazilians calling it the best stadium in the world.
beckham to score first goal!

anyone seen the new royal mail wembley stamps that dont have anything wembley on them? should of just called them england stamps.

http://www.norvic-philatelics.co.uk/2006/images/060511-wemsheet.jpg

see what i mean:ohno:

I was under the impression a Birmingham or Manchester stadium would rely pretty much on the nearby motorways. So whilst I do (believe it or not) realise there are railways up north, I would expect a much greater proportion of the crowd would travel by car.

That's why your point about the Carbon footprint of fans getting to Wembley was absurd. The alternatives are much worse.


No. The Birmingham stadium was planned to be close to the NEC\Brum airport which means it would be next to Birmingham International railway station which is on the west coast mainline and has superior rail links to Wembley.

In spite of that I would have supported the national stadium staying at wembley for historical reasons if it hadn't been for the FA stealing public money by pretending they would provide an athletics stadium

Back on topic-it looked good to me and it was great to see the winners go up the steps again.

I only went to old wembley once and wasnt tempted to return- whislt Id love to go to the new Wembely.

Yep, I only went to the old Wembley once as well. Luckily, it happened to be the match 442 magazine put as #1 in it's list of great Wembley games (not in terms of significance, obviously 1966 would be tope there, but in terms of the football) - Charlton's play-off win against Sunderland in 1998!

Well I've just watched the League 2 playoff final, and the atmosphere was immense. Bristol Rovers brought over 40,000! fans and made a right racket.

They made more noise that United and Chelsea did. I had the volume on low too.

Great fans, great match, Great Stadium= Atmosphere.

They are still in the stadium now singing.

Bristol Rovers 3-1 Shrewsbury

Another 4 goal match for Wembley.

Another 4 goal match for Wembley.

and again friday when england beat brazil 3 1 :nuts:

More great scenes at Wembley today.

Lower league fans are great!

Blackpool 2-0 Yeovil

Don't forget the biggest footie match anywhere on the planet is happening tomorrow.

Good luck Baggies, from a Blues fan.

its abit dissapointing that the fans have to be seperated by the emptiness of the corporate tier at these play-off finals

the middle tier looks about half full,can't understand why the block of seats either side of the tunnel have'nt been sold all weekend?..


attendance? about 80k i reckon

So this is the legacy that the FA will leave for the fans of all but the biggest clubs in the land - and the wealthiest supporters - a game that should have seen the first 90k attendance at Wembley for years, has shown exactly where the interests of the fans fit in with the interests of the our game's governing body. The FA should be ashamed.

the vast amounts of empty seats is due to the football league and wembley not agreeing who on should get the profits from the club wembley seats which the owners of did not want to use for this game

can't understand why the block of seats either side of the tunnel have'nt been sold all weekend?..


Thats because they are part of Club Wembley as well. Corinthian Club to be precise.

So this is the legacy that the FA will leave for the fans of all but the biggest clubs in the land - and the wealthiest supporters - a game that should have seen the first 90k attendance at Wembley for years, has shown exactly where the interests of the fans fit in with the interests of the our game's governing body. The FA should be ashamed.

Spot on. :applause:

Wembley Stadium the corporate cow. 10,000 empty seats wasted because they've already been sold to the corporates who don't need them or want them.

The more this Wembley farce evolves, the sicker it gets and so do I.

Stick your prawn sandwich up your arse Geoff Thompson

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/935000/images/_938175_thompson150.jpg

http://www.replica.co.uk/images/specials/_sandwich.jpg

that prawn sarnie looks delicious

the vast amounts of empty seats is due to the football league and wembley not agreeing who on should get the profits from the club wembley seats which the owners of did not want to use for this game

That figures!

So, in reality, modern football is all about those people who wan't to go, but struggle to afford it, and those people who have paid to go, but can't be bothered. CLUB WEMBLEY my...

Btw, bad luck Baggies - I feel for you.

the vast amounts of empty seats is due to the football league and wembley not agreeing who on should get the profits from the club wembley seats which the owners of did not want to use for this game

Well the official response was down to segregation issues.

But yes, I'm rather pissed off. Yes those seats were purchased by Club Wembley members (some of whom are actually football fans, just well-to-do football fans. Yes they do exist)

But there was no valid reason as to why they shouldn't of been released for this game. Segregation? Please this isn't a Boca-River Plate game. If it was Wolves v West Brom, then maybe...

If there are 10,000 corporate seats why was over half the stadiums capacity in the FA Cup final neutral????????:bash:

The FA are shit, they really are. The stadum is fantastic, but the FA are going to slowly cock it up in the minds of the fans.

Good game though yesterday, end to end at times, and a well worked goal. Well done Debry. The supporters made a right racket. Nice to see Derby coming up rather than another team that had only just gone down.

The FA really needs to be made accountable to the public. At the moment its just an exclusive club of money men and ex players/managers. We need to get a protest or a petition together!

The FA are shit, they really are. The stadum is fantastic, but the FA are going to slowly cock it up in the minds of the fans.

I think that just about sums it up. The stadium is brilliant but the way it's being used and managed is anything but.

I think that just about sums it up. The stadium is brilliant but the way it's being used and managed is anything but.

not sure what all this is about segregation,the offiical line i heard was that the Football League and Wembley Stadium Ltd couldn't agree on who got what share of the profits from the sale of the club Wembley seats.The Football League wanted 75%,Wembley wouldn't agree,The Football League went off in a huff,Wembley thought they would come back and re-negotiate,they didn't..

i've just bought my ticket for the rugby league challenge cup final in august..my seat number is 1117...does anyone know what block that would be in??

i've just bought my ticket for the rugby league challenge cup final in august..my seat number is 1117...does anyone know what block that would be in??

That's block ZZZ, row Z...

probably.

the higher the better :lol:

for £21 i'm not really bothered

Well I went to the game the other night, and it will rank highly amongst the best experiences in my short lifetime.

I only live 4 stops away on the Met Line, so getting to the stadium was not a problem. I got into the stadium at about 6:30, no waiting at all.

Walking up to the stadium was an epic sight. As you turn into the main ticket concourse at Wembley Park, you are presented with an awesome view of the stadium glistening in the sun, with thousands of fans working they way up 'Wembley' Way. There were birds soaring around the stadium which seemed to make it seem even larger.

The build up before the game with the national anthem ringing out across the stadium, and the applause for Alan Ball was very emotional. The stadium is mind boggling. I had a great view, half way up the top tier slap bang on the halfway line.

The food prices have dropped significantly from what they were. I didn't see any toilets waist deep in urine. There were a few damp floors, but that is expected to be honest!

The facilities in side and sparkling, there's plenty of stewards and staff on hand to help out, and its very easy to navigate the stadium.

Despite the fact the the stadium is gigantic, I got a really decent unobstructed view from even the top tier and you did feel as if you were almost on top of the pitch, despite being quite far back in reality.

The pitch seemed to hold together more than it has done in the earlier games. Hopefully now with a bit of TLC it will bed in. Ronaldinho kept looking down at the pitch whenever his miscontrolled the ball, but he was the only player doing so!

The acoustics are excellent. I think the volume could of been tweaked a bit, it was almost too loud at times, but that's also down to the announcer feeling he needs to shout.

The Roof is quite something, it really did exceed expectations.

The atmosphere was patchy at times, but when the England fans actually bothered to sing in unison, it was exhilarating and deafening. Trouble is, our fans are pretty shit. We just seem to enjoy bitching about the team, booing Frank Lampard and shouting obscenities at the ref. A few England till I die chants and the national anthem thrown in thoguh. The England band were desperately trying to raise the volume, but to no avail. People just looked in their direction and did nothing. These weren't corporate seats, these were paid up members of englandfans. Granted many would of applied for membership to stand a better chance of getting Wembley tickets (myself included). Swathes of people went to get food etc 10mins before half time (the first half was pretty dull) but again it really pissed me off, and some others in the crowd too. They call themselves fans? I know it was a friendly, but I wasn't impressed. And it was clear it wasn't actually the stadium that lacks atmosphere. It is actually English football 'fans' Come to think of it the only club fans that I rate in England are:

Liverpool - The songs (England have hijacked the ring of fine tune too), the banners, the flags

Newcastle
Sunderland (for still watching their team and signing proudly during that dismal last season in the permiership)
Portsmouth

and maybe, just maybe United fans considering their massive away support

Beckhams reception was outstanding however. When he came close with his first freekick, my oh my did the crowd think that was in!

It was a shame about the equaliser, but to be honest we all saw it coming when players like Jenas and Brown came on!

Getting back home was a little more difficult, but it was well handled by the police. The train station closed temporarily to clear the congestion for about 8mins, and then we were off, with the backdrop of a fully lit stadium behind. It really is a major landmark, it will become the most famous view of any stadium in the world, fact. When you think of stadia like the nou camp, the San Siro etc, nobody ever mentions external features, or lighting shemes. Wembley has that on its side, and it also has an amazing, steep tiered bowled interior that can only really be compared to the Nou Camp. Wembley has a much better atmosphere due to being fully undercover, and has the better facilities.

I will sort some pics out for later.

Cheers Peyre for the write-up sounds exciting, i must try and buy a ticket for an event, any event to try and see what it is like for myself.

Would love to see an England match, as never been to one, but tickets probably hard to get.

The England crowds could do with a bit more of the Liverpool passion, but they do get fired up in spells when the team plays with passion. Also good to hear, or not hear as the case may be, the England crowd not booing the opposition Anthem.

I think it will be amazing for the Diana Concert and Live Earth, that's when it will truely come into its own as one of the great stadiums, and will be showcased to the rest of the world.

I think it will be amazing for the Diana Concert and Live Earth, that's when it will truely come into its own as one of the great stadiums, and will be showcased to the rest of the world.

be like 15 thousand less people tho

the race of champions is what i wanna see

I'm going to see metallica at wembley on july 8th i'll take pics and put em on here

I went and saw Muse last night (17th June). The stadium was excellent and the atmosphere electric. It's simple to navigate and I never felt like I had to trample over people as tends to happen at other stadiums or arenas during concerts.

The transport situation is still dire though. Wembley Park still cannot cope with the crowds even after its refurbishment. Having to close a station to cope with a crowd of people knowing how many would be using is simply not acceptable in a world class city. The nightmare of getting home wasn't helped by the Met line being closed, but it really shows up how London cannot cope when it comes to moving large crowds of people around the city on its Tube network.

I went and saw Muse last night (17th June). The stadium was excellent and the atmosphere electric. It's simple to navigate and I never felt like I had to trample over people as tends to happen at other stadiums or arenas during concerts.

The transport situation is still dire though. Wembley Park still cannot cope with the crowds even after its refurbishment. Having to close a station to cope with a crowd of people knowing how many would be using is simply not acceptable in a world class city. The nightmare of getting home wasn't helped by the Met line being closed, but it really shows up how London cannot cope when it comes to moving large crowds of people around the city on its Tube network.

I had the total opposite experience the few times i have been, the last time was the Brazil match which had a larger crowd then the concert and getting home was so easy and a credit to the crowd control put into place.

Individual cases i guess, but most ppl seemed pleased to have such organised policing put into place.

It looks very bland in my opinion, especially considering it cost nearly £1bn - I was expecting something breathtaking!! In addition it's in the middle of nowhere... where's the atmosphere?!

One person summed it up very nicely... saying it looks like an airport terminal.

Millenium Staduim = £125m

Wembley = £1bn

Proportionaly I think the Cardiff Stadium has Wembley beaten.

wembley didn't cost 1bn just for stadium and as for cardiff beaten wembley, well you are from cardiff lol
cardiff dont even come close to twickers let alone wembley

In addition it's in the middle of nowhere... where's the atmosphere?!

It's in the middle of nowhere? It's in the middle of Wembley. As in that place that everyone all over the world knows.

It looks very bland in my opinion, especially considering it cost nearly £1bn - I was expecting something breathtaking!! In addition it's in the middle of nowhere... where's the atmosphere?!

One person summed it up very nicely... saying it looks like an airport terminal.

Millenium Staduim = £125m

Wembley = £1bn

Proportionaly I think the Cardiff Stadium has Wembley beaten.

Why you complaining, you guys should be happy that no more English clubs will be playing in your stadium, you have your stadium back....however If it wasnt for the English FA and Rugby League the Millenium stadium would not have been so well known. so you should be greatful and eat less of those sour grapes.

P.S. Learn your numbers, it wasnt £1bn

Oh and yeah Twickenham is better then the Millenium Stadium too :)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1170/561016257_aac87fda17_o.jpg

I went and saw Muse last night (17th June). The stadium was excellent and the atmosphere electric. It's simple to navigate and I never felt like I had to trample over people as tends to happen at other stadiums or arenas during concerts.

The transport situation is still dire though. Wembley Park still cannot cope with the crowds even after its refurbishment. Having to close a station to cope with a crowd of people knowing how many would be using is simply not acceptable in a world class city. The nightmare of getting home wasn't helped by the Met line being closed, but it really shows up how London cannot cope when it comes to moving large crowds of people around the city on its Tube network.

I was at the Muse concert last night - after it finished I had time to go for a piss, then walked to Wembley Central without ever having to push or stop, waited for about three minutes on a platform that never became dangerously crowded, and got on a Bakerloo line train that whisked me away promptly and comfortably.

Why you complaining, you guys should be happy that no more English clubs will be playing in your stadium, you have your stadium back....however If it wasnt for the English FA and Rugby League the Millenium stadium would not have been so well known. so you should be greatful and eat less of those sour grapes.

P.S. Learn your numbers, it wasnt £1bn

Oh and yeah Twickenham is better then the Millenium Stadium too :)

Well I did say nearly £1bn... but that's besides the point. I for one am not happy that the English teams no longer playing here, for a brief moment I got to witness the World's best in (some) sports.

If you look at pure design, cost and location I truely think that the Millenium Stadium is the best in the UK - it cost about a 1/10th of Wembley, is in a much better location (i.e. in the middle of town where hotels, bars etc are) and generally looks nicer (Wembley looks like a large standard stadium and that arch was a desperation move by the architects in my opinion - it just looks bland).

It looks very bland in my opinion, especially considering it cost nearly £1bn - I was expecting something breathtaking!! In addition it's in the middle of nowhere... where's the atmosphere?!

One person summed it up very nicely... saying it looks like an airport terminal.

Millenium Staduim = £125m

Wembley = £1bn

Proportionaly I think the Cardiff Stadium has Wembley beaten.

?? NO.
Wembley build cost 350m

Millennium build cost 126m(eight years ago lets not forget inflation)

p.s. just 4 good measure - I love the M. stadium, but looks at wot Wembley got for that money - it's a city in it's own right.

From last night...

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/gunnerbill/101_0361.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/gunnerbill/DSC00021.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/gunnerbill/DSC00018.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/gunnerbill/101B0411.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/gunnerbill/101_0403.jpg

Took about half an hour to get to walk to Wembley Park from Entrance A (right over the other side to Olympic Way). We had to wait about 10 mins to be let into the station, but then got straight onto a train. They weren't packing many into the carriages so it was nice to get a seat for a change. I was impressed with the ease of getting home, no way near as bad as shuffling along the South Bank to Victoria tube station from the NY Eve fireworks!

I also was there last night. And despite myself I did find that I was slightly disappointed with how its turned out. At least on an architectural level. Once you get over the scale of the thing and you start looking at the detail, it does feel a little generic. I have to say that this could also be levelled at Twickenham but I have to say that I much prefer Twickers, although that could be because I've been there many times.
However a large part of the success of any stadium is how it handles people, and Wembley seems to succeed on that level. Getting to, in and around the stadium was a piece of piss, as was taking a piss. Not one queue. There were some problems getting to Wembley Park station but that may have had something to do with met line problems.

?? NO.
Wembley build cost 350m

Millennium build cost 126m(eight years ago lets not forget inflation)

Um i'm afraid you're quite wrong... Wembley cost (according to wikipedia and other sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wembley_Stadium) £798m.

Um i'm afraid you're quite wrong... Wembley cost (according to wikipedia and other sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wembley_Stadium) £798m.

I think 798 million pounds included buying the land plus various interest payments etc. He probably meant the actual build cost alone was 350 million quid?

yep, the entire development cost £798m, the stadium on it's own cost £360m-ish

what were the acoustics like at the concert?

what were the acoustics like at the concert?

Pretty damn good I'd say. I got the feeling that the sound stayed in the stadium.

Also it's been built to operate at a profit.... not like most national stadiums.

Does it have a retractable roof?

what were the acoustics like at the concert?

The acoustics were fine in the middle of the pitch - I certainly never thought anything was bad about the sound...

Does it have a retractable roof?

Semi Retractable. Two Sections covers large areas of the the West and East sides of the stadium.

Does it have a retractable roof?

Look enjoy the Millenium stadium, probably it wont be used or as full as much as before but hey you still have the stadium, revel in its glory no need to piss on others.

No soap, no dryers, no . . . chips? Prepare to feel my wrath!

Caitlin Moran

By and large, anger is a pretty useless emotion. It rarely gets things done. If you’re angry at women or children, they cry. If you’re angry at men, they will punch you. If you’re angry at livestock, there’s every chance that they will roll their eyes madly, do toilet and then storm off, mooing. By and large, it’s best to ignore your anger – crush it, negate it, dismiss it. As Marge Simpson noted: “Take all your bad feelings and push them down, all the way down, until you’re almost walking on them. And then you’ll fit in, and boys will like you, and happiness will follow.”

The only exception with this is things. We should all get angry with things. Pens that go faint and spluttery, soap dispensers whose handles have jammed, stupid cars that won’t start. We must give all these things fair warning: a good five or six calm, rational attempts to use the item, exactly as the instructions direct. Then, still serene, we should squirt the item with WD40, to give it every opportunity to achieve full functionality. But if the thing still doesn’t work by that stage, then we must become angry – very angry, furious, with a rage as hot as the merciless heart of the Sun. We must smash the thing and bash the thing, then burn it, and throw all the ashes into the void while screaming: “Goddamn you, Marks & Spencer pedometer! I hope you SCREAM FOR EVER IN THE ROILING PITS OF HELL!” And then put the bits in the recycling.

We have to smash shoddy things, you see, so that we never learn to tolerate, even for a minute, lacklustre, half-hearted items. Making a thing – anything – is a big deal. Making a thing involves meetings and notes and aeroplanes and advertising and plastic wrapping and thought and time. To make, then, a thing that doesn’t work – something faulty and uninspired – is surely a new and terrible crime. All we have, as humans, is the Earth, our time and our ingenuity. To waste any of these should make us seethe. We should be absolutely furious.

And so we come to the thing of Wembley. I went to the new stadium last week. This is where our biggest events – cup finals, memorial concerts, momentous things involving Sting – will happen. People will travel from all over the world to sit here and watch the historic set-pieces of British sport and culture.

Fellow dreamers of the dream, I don’t think that I’ve ever seen a building conceived and then executed with such a palpable sense of contempt. £798 million! For this! They might just as well have set fire to the money in a big pile, then punched us all individually in the face – the effect would be the same.

All architecture is a language. Every building has something to say to us. Do you know what Wembley’s architecture says? “Empty your pockets, peasants, and then clap when we tell you.”

To enter the place, there is no grand public portico. Instead, you squeeze through narrow slits in the building, negotiate a turnstile, and emerge into what looks like the underground car park at Ikea. Every hundred yards there is a set of spiked wire gates – presumably to shut down and contain any riot or panic. The effect is to make you feel as though you have entered a prison in Mexico, one with a particularly troubled history.

I had foolishly come to Wembley before tea, and was hoping – given that this was a £798 million building, and an emblem of British leisure time – that there might be a café or restaurant somewhere in its 103,000 square metres.

“There is!” one of the brightly tabarded stewards informed me. “There’s a champagne bar and restaurant upstairs! It’s lovely! But you’re not allowed to go up there,” he continued, sadly. “That level needs a special membership of Wembley.”

All that was left for anyone with my £40 peasant ticket were the rows of identical fast-food kiosks. These sold only cheeseburger & chips, £7, or fish & chips, £7. It was like being in some dispiriting Eastern European theme park. Dubious in the extreme as to the meat and fish, I asked for just chips. “It has to be a full meal,” the cashier said, apologetically.

I do not think that I am overstating the case when I say that not to be able to buy some chips is a desecration of all that is English. You might as well spit on a picture of the Queen as deny an Englishwoman a packet of chips.

In the toilets there were only two hand-dryers for the 13 cubicles. There was no soap. In the corridor 48 people queued for the single cash machine. Wet, dispirited and hungry, and probably bearing the traces of the fatal Ebola virus on our dirty hands, we sat down to enjoy our £100 night out, in one of the most famous entertainment centres in the world.

As I said before, by and large, I think anger is a pretty useless emotion. It’s apt to upset other people, and leave you rather breathless and sweaty. But in the case of Wembley Stadium, would it really be a bad thing if an angry punter decided to exact some manner of revenge, and burnt the place to the ground? The new Wembley could scarcely be a more hateful monument to corporate greed and contempt.

Bread and circuses, lattes and sushi

Chip outrage aside, Wembley shows just how out of touch its creators are with the way in which leisure time in Britain has changed. Providing a gigantic concrete bunker, filled with cheeseburger meal deals, presumes that everyone who goes to the football is some downtrodden Andy Capp-type, unable to appreciate anything more than junk food and working toilets. It overlooks how aspirational leisure time has become. Have these people not been out recently? Women hire pink limos for a night out in a pub! Marks & Spencer sells sushi! You can get Fair Trade lattes in petrol stations, and wi-fi and salads in McDonald’s! From what I have been given to understand – an impression gleaned from Live Aid, the FA Cup Final and pictures of the Colosseum – stadiums are places of adrenalin, pheromones and testosterone, of musk and sweat, and, should the occasion warrant, blood. All that was evident at Wembley was hot rancid fat, wee-wee and toilet cleaner.

What a fantastic piece of literature that is. Unfortunately for me London seems to be turning into a great big version of the Wembley experience. And more worrying what happens in London today happens in the rest of the UK tomorrow. grrr.

Look enjoy the Millenium stadium, probably it wont be used or as full as much as before but hey you still have the stadium, revel in its glory no need to piss on others.

I know we are talking about wembley here, and let me stress as I have before (you need to say this or else you get accused of 'jealousy'!) that it is 100% correct that the domestic football games have moved to wembley now it's finally completed...

but, actually losing the football could be good for the Mill.Stad. It's got the bonus money and prestige of 6 years worth of hosting events in the bank and now can go out and fill the void with interesting and different events.

No soap, no dryers, no . . . chips? Prepare to feel my wrath!

Caitlin Moran



Impressive piece and one which I have some sympathy with. However just dig a bit deeper into history and you can see the same process of franchisation of other community areas such as cinemas and people didnt rise up in arms against that, we just all go along with it like consumer zombies, possibly because the well off all got to go to up-market niche cinemas. Like cinema-goers, football fans havent exactly endeared themselves to change, although i tend to agree with provide it and they will come I think there is enough scope in the new wembley building to tweak certain areas its not like everything is set in stone, or rather grey panels of cladding in this case! But thats Foster for you, very British.

What a fantastic piece of literature that is. Unfortunately for me London seems to be turning into a great big version of the Wembley experience. And more worrying what happens in London today happens in the rest of the UK tomorrow. grrr.

rubbish, if there is anywhere in the UK that can sustain alternative visions of the market economy, art and living it is London! They didnt come up with the phrase 'clone town' to describe most of the UK for no reason! From architecture to farming methods to transport the rest of the UK lets itself down because people accept their own low aspirations.

Oh and yeah Twickenham is better then the Millenium Stadium too :)

You've gotta be kidding. Ones a state of the art stadium, with an utterly fantastic roof. The other is a bland, concrete nightmare with a piss-coloured stained roof.

And as for my experiences, the Millenium's location right in the middle of Cardiff is fantastic, right near all the pubs, and as far as I can remember, Cardiff city centre is a very nice place to be. The same can't be said for the areas around Wembley, or even Twickenham really.

wheres ann robinson when you need her

If you're going to use the 1bn figure for Wembley, you might aswell bump Cardiff up to 400m!

You've gotta be kidding. Ones a state of the art stadium, with an utterly fantastic roof. The other is a bland, concrete nightmare with a piss-coloured stained roof.

And as for my experiences, the Millenium's location right in the middle of Cardiff is fantastic, right near all the pubs, and as far as I can remember, Cardiff city centre is a very nice place to be. The same can't be said for the areas around Wembley, or even Twickenham really.

the centre of Cardiff better than Twickenham?better than Richmond ?you gotta be joking
my experience of Cardiff with QPR wasn't so great,having loads of pi$$ed up Cardiff fans battering anybody who had a QPR shirt on
having to walk about a mile from the park and ride to the staduim wasn't too great either,and of course the slow journey home on the Motorway..yeah..i really miss Cardiff

Gotta say- just been watching some of the Princess Diana concert on tv and can't believe how massive wembley looks. This beast is growing on me. I think the public are gonna quickly forget all the unfortunate shite surrounding it's construction, and will learn to love and be immensly proud of it.

was really impressive during the concert last night. Awesome.

Yeah it was impressive, especially the interior and shots at night showing the lit up arch. Having said that, without the arch this stadium would just be a big bowl with little else "wow" about it (from an architectural viewpoint)

Yeah it was impressive, especially the interior and shots at night showing the lit up arch. Having said that, without the arch this stadium would just be a big bowl with little else "wow" about it (from an architectural viewpoint)

you could say the same about Skyscrapers. Without the gherkins height it would probably look rather odd indeed

How about the Chrysler building's roof?

You've gotta be kidding. Ones a state of the art stadium, with an utterly fantastic roof. The other is a bland, concrete nightmare with a piss-coloured stained roof.

Hey, it's not all piss-coloured, I'll have you know...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1231/604005569_04f9fe4a30_b.jpg

Is it me, or will this massive stadium, never look to be at full capacity ever again? During the concerts and even the recent football games, there appears never to be a full house. I think it's the tradeoff for having such excellent facilities on the external concource. People keep leaving their seats and probably explore other area's of Wembley, when the action is not happening. In the old days of course, there was nothing to explore and only a few toilets available, so it meant the stadium always looked packed.

And then there's the corporate issue, but that has been done to death. No way round that, it's a 10 year licence.

There's not really a lot else to explore. The round 'avenue' that has the beer and food stands reminded me of a Lithuanian prison. Awful. The o2 is far, far superior in this respect, and not just the 'promenade' area with the restaurants but the area just outside the seating area on the internal arena, with not only beer stands but a take away carvery, sandwich stand, fully stocked bar, popcorn and sweets stalls. Much nicer than only being able to buy a cheeseburger and chips in a concrete bunker and steel cage that they have at Wembley.

the centre of Cardiff better than Twickenham?better than Richmond ?you gotta be joking
my experience of Cardiff with QPR wasn't so great,having loads of pi$$ed up Cardiff fans battering anybody who had a QPR shirt on
having to walk about a mile from the park and ride to the staduim wasn't too great either,and of course the slow journey home on the Motorway..yeah..i really miss Cardiff

hahaha. You had to walk a mile!? One mile!? That takes 15 minutes! pissed up people at a football game? ye gods, what a nightmare! You could have got the bus or train to central station (conveniently, and rarely in the UK located on the same site) from where you would have walked for about 3 minutes.

As for Cardiff fans battering anyone in a QPR shirt, well there were 30,000 of you that glorious day in 2003, so either you are all a weak, lilly livered lot, or you are lying and the 35,000 Cardiff fans in fact did not 'batter you'. As for the experience around Richmond being better than around Cardiff, you are really on cloud cuckoo land. Richmond may be a 'nice suburb' (if you like that kind of thing) But about 3 pubs, some snooty neighbours and some champers and hampers outside HQ does not a memorable experience make. This Millennium Stadium vs Wembley debate is worth a chortle, but lets keep things realistic.

I say the above with a tongue-in-cheek attitude. I don't seriously expect everyone to be blown away by the stadium, but to say the surroundings are inferior to Richmond is something else.

hahaha. You had to walk a mile!? One mile!? That takes 15 minutes! pissed up people at a football game? ye gods, what a nightmare! You could have got the bus or train to central station (conveniently, and rarely in the UK located on the same site) from where you would have walked for about 3 minutes.

As for Cardiff fans battering anyone in a QPR shirt, well there were 30,000 of you that glorious day in 2003, so either you are all a weak, lilly livered lot, or you are lying and the 35,000 Cardiff fans in fact did not 'batter you'. As for the experience around Richmond being better than around Cardiff, you are really on cloud cuckoo land. Richmond may be a 'nice suburb' (if you like that kind of thing) But about 3 pubs, some snooty neighbours and some champers and hampers outside HQ does not a memorable experience make. This Millennium Stadium vs Wembley debate is worth a chortle, but lets keep things realistic.




I say the above with a tongue-in-cheek attitude. I don't seriously expect everyone to be blown away by the stadium, but to say the surroundings are inferior to Richmond is something else.


well,30k of us didn't all go mob handed together did we.What choice did we have but to walk,thats where the park and ride bus dropped us,we were told that we would be dropped next to the ground,on the QPR side of town,instead we were left to find our own way from the Cardiff side,how are we supposed to know where to go to find public transport?we drove intot he twon,and followed directions to the park and ride,
i don't have a problem walking a mile,but Wembley park station is a lot nearer
as for the surrounding area,as well as Richmond,ther is Twickenham town centre which has more than enough pubs/bars,and Whitton too

My point would be though, that if public transport is a prerequisite of a well designed and located stadium, then the Millennium Stadium cannot be criticised for it. Although the station does get very busy after the game.

There are probably only half a dozen or so grounds in the UK with a mainline train/tube or tram stop so close to the ground, and there are probably only half a dozen grounds in the UK (not the same grounds I'll add) with the cities main bus station so close. In addition, literally 90% of the buses that run across Cardiff (and we have an extensive network) go on one of the streets within five minutes walk of the city.

Park and ride facilities by their very nature are not located in city centres. I appreciate though that a mile walk may be frustrating if it's not what your expecting.

I'm genuinely sorry if a single QPR supporter got any genuine grief, and while I accept that CCFC have a hooligan issue, I'm sure you'd agree this is a football, as opposed to Cardiff issue.

Hopefully you'll come down to Ninian Park for the QPR game this year, and get a better experience

No soap, no dryers, no . . . chips? Prepare to feel my wrath!

Caitlin Moran

By and large, anger is a pretty useless emotion. It rarely gets things done. If you’re angry at women or children, they cry. If you’re angry at men, they will punch you. If you’re angry at livestock, there’s every chance that they will roll their eyes madly, do toilet and then storm off, mooing. By and large, it’s best to ignore your anger – crush it, negate it, dismiss it. As Marge Simpson noted: “Take all your bad feelings and push them down, all the way down, until you’re almost walking on them. And then you’ll fit in, and boys will like you, and happiness will follow.”

The only exception with this is things. We should all get angry with things. Pens that go faint and spluttery, soap dispensers whose handles have jammed, stupid cars that won’t start. We must give all these things fair warning: a good five or six calm, rational attempts to use the item, exactly as the instructions direct. Then, still serene, we should squirt the item with WD40, to give it every opportunity to achieve full functionality. But if the thing still doesn’t work by that stage, then we must become angry – very angry, furious, with a rage as hot as the merciless heart of the Sun. We must smash the thing and bash the thing, then burn it, and throw all the ashes into the void while screaming: “Goddamn you, Marks & Spencer pedometer! I hope you SCREAM FOR EVER IN THE ROILING PITS OF HELL!” And then put the bits in the recycling.

We have to smash shoddy things, you see, so that we never learn to tolerate, even for a minute, lacklustre, half-hearted items. Making a thing – anything – is a big deal. Making a thing involves meetings and notes and aeroplanes and advertising and plastic wrapping and thought and time. To make, then, a thing that doesn’t work – something faulty and uninspired – is surely a new and terrible crime. All we have, as humans, is the Earth, our time and our ingenuity. To waste any of these should make us seethe. We should be absolutely furious.

And so we come to the thing of Wembley. I went to the new stadium last week. This is where our biggest events – cup finals, memorial concerts, momentous things involving Sting – will happen. People will travel from all over the world to sit here and watch the historic set-pieces of British sport and culture.

Fellow dreamers of the dream, I don’t think that I’ve ever seen a building conceived and then executed with such a palpable sense of contempt. £798 million! For this! They might just as well have set fire to the money in a big pile, then punched us all individually in the face – the effect would be the same.

All architecture is a language. Every building has something to say to us. Do you know what Wembley’s architecture says? “Empty your pockets, peasants, and then clap when we tell you.”

To enter the place, there is no grand public portico. Instead, you squeeze through narrow slits in the building, negotiate a turnstile, and emerge into what looks like the underground car park at Ikea. Every hundred yards there is a set of spiked wire gates – presumably to shut down and contain any riot or panic. The effect is to make you feel as though you have entered a prison in Mexico, one with a particularly troubled history.

I had foolishly come to Wembley before tea, and was hoping – given that this was a £798 million building, and an emblem of British leisure time – that there might be a café or restaurant somewhere in its 103,000 square metres.

“There is!” one of the brightly tabarded stewards informed me. “There’s a champagne bar and restaurant upstairs! It’s lovely! But you’re not allowed to go up there,” he continued, sadly. “That level needs a special membership of Wembley.”

All that was left for anyone with my £40 peasant ticket were the rows of identical fast-food kiosks. These sold only cheeseburger & chips, £7, or fish & chips, £7. It was like being in some dispiriting Eastern European theme park. Dubious in the extreme as to the meat and fish, I asked for just chips. “It has to be a full meal,” the cashier said, apologetically.

I do not think that I am overstating the case when I say that not to be able to buy some chips is a desecration of all that is English. You might as well spit on a picture of the Queen as deny an Englishwoman a packet of chips.

In the toilets there were only two hand-dryers for the 13 cubicles. There was no soap. In the corridor 48 people queued for the single cash machine. Wet, dispirited and hungry, and probably bearing the traces of the fatal Ebola virus on our dirty hands, we sat down to enjoy our £100 night out, in one of the most famous entertainment centres in the world.

As I said before, by and large, I think anger is a pretty useless emotion. It’s apt to upset other people, and leave you rather breathless and sweaty. But in the case of Wembley Stadium, would it really be a bad thing if an angry punter decided to exact some manner of revenge, and burnt the place to the ground? The new Wembley could scarcely be a more hateful monument to corporate greed and contempt.

Bread and circuses, lattes and sushi

Chip outrage aside, Wembley shows just how out of touch its creators are with the way in which leisure time in Britain has changed. Providing a gigantic concrete bunker, filled with cheeseburger meal deals, presumes that everyone who goes to the football is some downtrodden Andy Capp-type, unable to appreciate anything more than junk food and working toilets. It overlooks how aspirational leisure time has become. Have these people not been out recently? Women hire pink limos for a night out in a pub! Marks & Spencer sells sushi! You can get Fair Trade lattes in petrol stations, and wi-fi and salads in McDonald’s! From what I have been given to understand – an impression gleaned from Live Aid, the FA Cup Final and pictures of the Colosseum – stadiums are places of adrenalin, pheromones and testosterone, of musk and sweat, and, should the occasion warrant, blood. All that was evident at Wembley was hot rancid fat, wee-wee and toilet cleaner.

What a feeble upper middle class load of shite that was, facey that a stadium is built for football rather than up to west end standards. Its rather obvious "catlin" had never been to a football stadium befiore in her life if she thinks the toilet facilties were poor. :lol:

Fact is that when you have 90,000 people to deal with its not possible to run a venue like an opera house. One "grand entrance" is as sure a way as I can think of to cause a crush where as I could get out of Wembley onto a train and back to my car in Uxsbridge inside of 45 mins.

Her point about the food and cafes is correct though - times have moved on and so should football. Wembley is an entertainment complex and its catering should reflect that. Unhealthy chips and burgers? I would have thought that mentality would have been left back in 1975.

I have sympathy with the comments about food but she uses it as a main focal point and mixes it all up into a grand attack on the building itself, but what on earth has food got to do with architecture? After all retail is possibly the most flexible use of space there is!!! The big irony is that her anger takes over common sense to form a pretty pointless attack on a new cultural project which seems to always happen with the conservative press for some reason.

If she was angry about the food write a piece about food in football stadia using her disappointment at Wembley as an example; in fact why not take it further and attack monopolised product licensing we see from cinemas to ice cream freezers? Her notions of a grand entrance (perhaps imagining some sort of portico and doric column arrangement?) would be less of point, perhaps not even worth mentioning if she understood about dealing safely with large sudden flows of people and the historic context of 'wembley way' let alone the widely advertised masterplan for the area!

Because she didnt see a yo sushi retail outlet inside the stadium this magnificent cultural space becomes akin to burning a pile of money?!?!?!?!?

But dont worry we`ll get this again with the Olympics, like we did with the millenium dome instead of being excited about the possibilities, tweaking issues are blown out of proportion to pointlessly tarnish the reputation of our cultural and public spaces ... now which attitude is like throwing away money? ;)

Her point about the food and cafes is correct though - times have moved on and so should football. Wembley is an entertainment complex and its catering should reflect that. Unhealthy chips and burgers? I would have thought that mentality would have been left back in 1975.

na, I want a £1.50 pie and a £1 tea (even those are rip offs really) for my half time snack at the football. If wembley can't provide that then they won't get any of my hard earned money to back up their general incompetence.

I don't mind them selling tea and pies but it seemed when I went there that was all they served. Which in this day and age is just ridiculous.

Her point about the food and cafes is correct though - times have moved on and so should football. Wembley is an entertainment complex and its catering should reflect that. Unhealthy chips and burgers? I would have thought that mentality would have been left back in 1975.

Hardly unique to Wembley though is it which further strengthens my view that she doesnt have any expereince of attending live football matchs and is merely writting a peice ot try and ride on the back of the cheap scandle on construction costs.

If you want decent food then why not get something beforehand? Yes there are not many places actually around the ground but the transport system is setup for people either coming out from central London or in from Uxsbridge both of which have plenty in the way of restaurants.

...also the area around the stadium is now being redeveloped.

My point would be though, that if public transport is a prerequisite of a well designed and located stadium, then the Millennium Stadium cannot be criticised for it. Although the station does get very busy after the game.

There are probably only half a dozen or so grounds in the UK with a mainline train/tube or tram stop so close to the ground, and there are probably only half a dozen grounds in the UK (not the same grounds I'll add) with the cities main bus station so close. In addition, literally 90% of the buses that run across Cardiff (and we have an extensive network) go on one of the streets within five minutes walk of the city.

Park and ride facilities by their very nature are not located in city centres. I appreciate though that a mile walk may be frustrating if it's not what your expecting.

I'm genuinely sorry if a single QPR supporter got any genuine grief, and while I accept that CCFC have a hooligan issue, I'm sure you'd agree this is a football, as opposed to Cardiff issue.

Hopefully you'll come down to Ninian Park for the QPR game this year, and get a better experience


well thanks for the invite James,perhaps i will take a trip to Ninian this year,haven't been since we played you in an FA CUP tie back in 1990

I went to the Muse concert about a 3-4 weeks ago and got some pictures.

http://photos-526.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v98/23/94/724005526/n724005526_683331_3245.jpg

http://photos-526.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v98/23/94/724005526/n724005526_683337_4719.jpg

http://photos-526.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v98/23/94/724005526/n724005526_683335_4217.jpg

http://photos-526.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-sctm/v98/23/94/724005526/n724005526_683330_3012.jpg

I was in the bands hospitality so I was in the executive tier so I managed have a good look around. It was beautiful, walking around to see all the many bars, restuarants you couldn't help but notice how high the place is. When you enter, you take these escalators that seemingly never end. I've been to many stadiums but nothing can compare to the scale of Wembley. It's staggering. Yeah so the architecture is pretty standard modern. However, it is done in pure quality. Everything looks shiney, like entering a futuristic town under one roof. We had oysters and champagne aswell! I can't understand all these people yapping on about what 'real football fans want'. I'm a real fan. I'm a Arsenal season ticket holder and all I ever do is think about Arsenal. However I don't want to be stuck in little seats, right up in the armpit of some fat sweaty man whilst he tucks in to his cheeseburger and chips. This seems to be what Northern football fans desire! You can love football without being inbred.

na, I want a £1.50 pie and a £1 tea (even those are rip offs really) for my half time snack at the football. If wembley can't provide that then they won't get any of my hard earned money to back up their general incompetence.The Dark Ages still reign in some corners of our isle. ;)

The Dark Ages still reign in some corners of our isle. ;)

I won't take the bait!

Nice pictures Sitback.

Went there today, I'm still left stunned by it's brilliance. I went there for an interview for the tour guide position. Damn, it was hard to concentrate during my presentation, I was standing in the front row of the excutive box that sits above the Royal box, the view was brilliant. Admittedly, I still put the effeort in, I think the fact that I'd get paid £20 for each tour I'd do, if I was to get the job, and you do a minimum of 14 tours a week, helped....mmmm Ma'honey!

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/5793/wemiu8.jpg

by winehands: http://sports.webshots.com/album/558323915yKwCOb

wem-ber-ley was fucking awesome the other day. The competitive games and the resurgent team has livened it up. Looked magnificent at night. The atmopshere is cracking when they crowd wants it to be, as I suspected.

i hate it when people compare the price of wembly to other stadiums, 1/3 was on the land it was built on and it it took 2 years longer to build than planned
even so, comapring wembly to millenium is not a good thing to do. stadiums do not come at the same price, land, labour, materials are always going to be a different price in different cities in different decades.

Anyone know what the actual number of seats is as opposed to the 'official capacity of 90,000? They must have put more seats in simply because you will NEVER get a completely full stadium (mainly due to corporate no shows), so attendances will never be exactly 90,000. Arsenal got around this by adding a few hundred extra seats and attendance over 60K have been achieved and this looks more aesthetically pleasing. I suppose the closest we got to test this theory at Wembley was the FA Cup final when the attendance was 89,860 or something.

Secondly, I think in a few years time an extra row of seats will be put down the ridiculously wide aisles in the cheap seats and could potentially boost capacity to over 100,000. This is only really symbolic as 90,000 is plenty enough in reality, as long as seats not used by season ticket holders are put up for general sale, which may never happen.

i would doubt that would ever happen, they may be very wide but when thousands of people are trying to get out at the same time you need them to be very wide

the capacity is above 90,000. exactly how much i'm not sure

i would doubt that would ever happen, they may be very wide but when thousands of people are trying to get out at the same time you need them to be very wide

Yes and also I doubt by narrowing these aisles would they get an extra 2,000 seats let alone 10k!!

perhaps they could make the field 1m lower and put a few rows in making the seats close to the field

i doubt they'd be allowed to narrow the walkways with all the regulations now, same reason why the first rows are few metres away from pitch and have them safety bars, if it wasn't for all the regulations, then first row of seats would of been 2 metres from pitch smaller walkways and a capacity of 120k which the national stadium should of been to make up for all the lost corporate seats.

when these corporate 10 year licences run out, can they renew them or will the corp seats be turned into normal seats?

they wouldn't turn the corporate seating into regular seating

Some pics from Flickr

England V Russia
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3857/wemrus1ia9.jpg
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7704/wemrus2gt6.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7935/wemflagengrusmx4.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/854/wemrusflagswi0.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1662/wemrusstt4.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2776/wemrussiati2.jpg
England v Israel
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/9673/wemisraeshitvz7.jpg

An amazing night!

anyone got tickets for the miami dolphins - new york giants NFL clash at wembley on the 28th of october?

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/533/img1fy0.jpg

Nope, I would want to see the best play.
You going?

i was gonna go but i should be in the states by then, so i'll be watching american football. live from wembley. in america. odd.

you still touching cloth?

^I was verging on it.
The drive home was rushed and luckily "tiger face" was averted.

unlikely anyone will get tickets now, this was the news on may16th NFL fans in the UK and Europe bought 40,000 tickets for the first-ever regular-season game to be played outside North America within 90 minutes

however by 100 minutes they were on ebay

anyone got tickets for the miami dolphins - new york giants NFL clash at wembley on the 28th of october?

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/533/img1fy0.jpg

I'm no fan of NFL, but that is an interesting idea having a regular season NFL game in another country, a bit like an English Prem league game being held in USA.

Will this be on tv live, might watch it for novelty value, see Lineker and Hanson commentating on "Goaldowns", "Midbackers" and "Quarter Timeout"....!

thats what they should of done with fa cup final during wembley rebuild, expect usa china japan would of jumped at the chance to host fa cup final

I'm no fan of NFL, but that is an interesting idea having a regular season NFL game in another country, a bit like an English Prem league game being held in USA.

Will this be on tv live, might watch it for novelty value, see Lineker and Hanson commentating on "Goaldowns", "Midbackers" and "Quarter Timeout"....!

The game will be shown live in the United States on FOX-TV... 1 p.m. (et), 6 p.m. London time, and on Sky Sports in the UK.

I would have thought ITV could have shown it. Didnt they buy up NFL tv coverage a couple of years ago?

Wembley should ditch the "Wembley" printed out on the seats. It looks tacky. They only used that originally because it was a novel idea back when they replaced terraces with seats in the old Wembley.

I rather like it. Better than boring old plain red like so many other new stadiums.

But I'm a fan of lettering anyway in football stadiums.

Most new stadiums have tacky lettering all over them.

If anyone is interested (or can't sleep at nights) channel five show live coverage of a live nfl game every monday and have coverage of other american sports live plus highlights sunday-thursday. Tonight they're showing the nhl game that was at the O2.

Wembley Stadium has been shortlisted to host the Champions League final in 2010 or 2011.
The rebuilt venue will be visited by a delegation from European football's governing body Uefa this year.

Berlin's Olympiastadion, the Allianz Arena in Munich and, in Spain, Madrid's Bernabeu and the Mestalla in Valencia are the other stadiums in contention.

thats what they should of done with fa cup final during wembley rebuild, expect usa china japan would of jumped at the chance to host fa cup final

lol... there was no chance in hell that that would ever have happened. and if it had it would have been another triumph of money over the needs of the true football fan. ridiculous idea.

miami dolphins - new york giants

if this is a proper NFL game, which one is supposed to be the home team?

american sports seem so soul-less, a bit like milton keynes united.

didnt the cleveland browns become some other team, and then some other team became the cleveland browns?

on a positive note, here are two of my ideas for new american football franchises, what do you reckon chaps??

san franscisco bumbandits
new orleans backshafters

they even could change over and become the minnesota bumshafters and the dallas backbandits

How about the San Francisco 69ers

its a dolphins home game supposedly, i am going, should be a laugh, yes i am only going coz its free for me and i want to see wembley but 3 hrs of eating corn dogs and shouting hooya should be a giggle!

Wembley Stadium has been shortlisted to host the Champions League final in 2010 or 2011.
The rebuilt venue will be visited by a delegation from European football's governing body Uefa this year.

Berlin's Olympiastadion, the Allianz Arena in Munich and, in Spain, Madrid's Bernabeu and the Mestalla in Valencia are the other stadiums in contention.
Valencia CF is not bidding with the current Mestalla, in 2009 this will be completed.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2852/estadioup0.jpg

They don't have much of a chance imho. A big reason the New Wembley was ruled out for the 2007 final was because UEFA rarely give the final to incomplete stadiums no matter how good they are going to be.

Why should Valencia be any different?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/4462265.stm

but wasn't the roof for this expensive bowl supposed to be retractable?
:ohno:
and if it was, why has it not been shut yet?

My first time yesterday, and being a traditionalist I went prejudiced I must confess.

My impressions

- Large gap around the pitch didn't annoy me as much as I thought it would.
- Very impressive looking, the middle tier didn't annoy me (as it was full)
- Large Seats weren't as wasteful of space as I imagined
- Although there wasn't a good atmosphere you could tell the ground held the noise.
- Exterior too like a shopping centre or airport
- Concourses like an airport, suspended ceilings? No thankyou. Can you retrofit some grot please this is a football ground.
- Didn't like the search parties once you got through the turnstile, felt wrong. Have them outside if necessary.
- got to the toilet quick, nice
- Massive escalators. Just weird. But my mates Dad needed them so did help.

All in all, impressive but not how I think a football ground should be.

but wasn't the roof for this expensive bowl supposed to be retractable?

Yes, it is.

and if it was, why has it not been shut yet?

Because it can't be shut. It's only retractable from the position you can see in post #181 to one where it doesn't cover as many spectators on the south side. If you look you can see the sections that retract, and how far they can move.

There was never going to be a fully retractable roof like on the Millennium Stadium, only the sections over the stands where the jumbo screens are located

It only retracts over the two ends of the ground. So people sitting behind the goals don't get wet...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2384/2055371580_f03d85f95c_o.jpg

the stadium is great but the pitch is a disgrace.

Yep, better than it being the other way round though!

I hope the pitch is fixable, even if it means the whole damn has to be ripped up and started again.

I really think they've (TheFA) screwed themselves over by overusing the stadium(ok they need to recoup some of the money it cost to build it) ,but the pitch was a mess before the NFL came over, and anyone who saw that game must have been horrified like I was watching the pitch turn into a pigs playground. It was so messed up when England played in it that the team had their best card taken away from them before they even started. They couldn't possibly control the game - it was just a big scrap, which suited Croatia perfectly like it was an FA cup giantkilling. Excuses excuses, I know, and no disrespect to Croatia but I think the outcome would have been different that night had the pitch been in good shape. And the FA now lose out on probably more money than they earned by hiring the bloody thing in the first place.

Yep, better than it being the other way round though!

I hope the pitch is fixable, even if it means the whole damn has to be ripped up and started again.

oh mate your right i went to see metallica in july and have to say from my point of view it is the best in the world.Now what people don't understand is when it's called the best it's not just the looks it is the facillities in the stadium that set it apart from other stadiums it is so multi purpose you won't believe.You won't see any other stadium get events that wembley will in the future you'll see.(apart from athletics though lol).But the pitch yes very poor but i think now you'll see it get sorted out-They have to.

I really think they've (TheFA) screwed themselves over by overusing the stadium(ok they need to recoup some of the money it cost to build it) ,but the pitch was a mess before the NFL came over, and anyone who saw that game must have been horrified like I was watching the pitch turn into a pigs playground. It was so messed up when England played in it that the team had their best card taken away from them before they even started. They couldn't possibly control the game - it was just a big scrap, which suited Croatia perfectly like it was an FA cup giantkilling. Excuses excuses, I know, and no disrespect to Croatia but I think the outcome would have been different that night had the pitch been in good shape. And the FA now lose out on probably more money than they earned by hiring the bloody thing in the first place.

I agree about the NFL game the pitch could not handle it yeah was a nightmare to see.As regards the croatia game i don't see the pitch as an excuse as it was same for both teams.England were just poor on the night(Beckham and Crouch aside).And they won't slow the events down cos they gotta pay it off

There's a 100,000 seat Wembley being built in Texas!

http://www.starlightflight.com/images/DSC00467.JPG
http://www.starlightflight.com/images/DSC00468.JPG
http://www.starlightflight.com/images/DSC00472.JPG
http://www.starlightflight.com/images/DSC00466.JPG

:lol:

Race of Champions - Wembley - 16th December 2007

http://www.raceofchampions.com/#/1_wembley_stadium_transformation_into_roc_track/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/uk_enl_1196707308/img/1.jpg

wow that looks amazing, i suppose thats the flip side of having a larger distance between the fans and the pitch. Still the time lapse video did look awesome!lets hope it doesnt ruin the pitch further....

Well its not gonna make the pitch any better thats for sure, is there any need for things like that held at wembley? Surely 90,000 people arent going to turn up for that?

not all seats can be used for safety reasons, like a wheel falling off and beheading the front rowers! i expect around 75,000 seats to be used, stad de france usually hosts this and they only use about 50k
its quite a popular event with all the top drivers on show, if it was possible to use all 90k seats it would of sold out easily.

no wonder the pitch is f**ked......lol

Apparently, and unsurprisingly, after this a new pitch is being laid and they are investigating interweaving synthetic grass in to it, like a lot of the big stadiums do. (Bernabau for sure)

i believe liverpool have it too and a few other english teams so it would be a welcome addition! especially as one of the worlds best stadiums deserves one of the worlds best pitches, maybe the should get arsenals groundsman in for some advice!

QPR and Huddersfield both installed synthetic pitches way back in 1997

Apparently, and unsurprisingly, after this a new pitch is being laid and they are investigating interweaving synthetic grass in to it, like a lot of the big stadiums do. (Bernabau for sure)

I'm pretty sure Wembley already has synthetic mix technology in the current excuse for a pitch.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/graphics/2007/12/04/smwemb104.jpg

To be honest, no I haven't Peyre. I just prefer the look and the feel of the Allianz compared to the new Wembley. Allianz is a proper football stadium, if you know what I mean. BTW, I'm not trying to say the old Wembley is a patch on the new one. It isn't. The new Wembley is a million times better. However, it's just to fussy and disjointed internally.

These two Allianz pictures illustrate my point perfectly.

http://www.livesoccertv.com/world-cup-2006/images/venues/large/Munich.jpg

http://www.nickelinstitute.org/multimedia/nickel_and_its_uses/nickel_magazine/archives/2006/March_2006_Vol._21_2/soccer/Allianz-interior-pm-450.jpg


Any stadium looks good from a 'fisheye' perspective !

I've tried so hard to like Wembley and yet still I can't reach a conclusion one way or the other .

Why does the atmosphere seem to have suffered ? There are never any flags at England games either.It's meant to hold 90,000 (I remember 100,000 at the old Wembley unless match commentators lied) and yet it doesn't look or sound like it.Why is that ?

The seating is broken up with such wide aisles.The roof looks bulky from the pitch and it all looks so sterile and 'corporate'.

Why does the Millenium Stadium look and feel bigger and better inside ? I don't get it because seemingly there isn't that much difference.

Why did they retain those ugly old concrete ramps leading up to Wembley ?

It's saved by the arch .Without it Wembley would've looked like a library. This British fixation with glass has to stop.

Don't get excited about the spurting ground fountains outside either .That idea is about 30 years old .

Does anyone know the latest with regards to the 'Wembley City' development to be built around the stadium? Is it still going ahead?

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9178/thump2926698estadiodeat.jpg (http://img210.imageshack.us/i/thump2926698estadiodeat.jpg/)


ui5iLb8lNr8&feature

stadium new of colombia
atletico nacional^^

Wrong thread matey :)

Any stadium looks good from a 'fisheye' perspective !

I think you also need to take into account there different uses.

Wembley is a stadium for finals/semi's and international games and such events benefit from a larger more epic "open" atmosphere IMHO rather than the more enclosed clausiphobic one you want for club football which the Allianz suits better.

Why does the atmosphere seem to have suffered ? There are never any flags at England games either.It's meant to hold 90,000 (I remember 100,000 at the old Wembley unless match commentators lied) and yet it doesn't look or sound like it.Why is that ?


It isn't the stadium, it's the fans who go, or rather the fans who can no longer afford to go. Look at how the atmosphere at Old Trafford has changed even though there are twice as many fans in the ground compared to 15 years ago.

The recent NFL game at Wembley shows that it can have an amazing atmosphere, and I suspect if it held a rugby union game you'd get the atmosphere too. Football has changed though. Fans are more interested in using their camera phones than getting behind their teams.

It isn't the stadium, it's the fans who go, or rather the fans who can no longer afford to go. Look at how the atmosphere at Old Trafford has changed even though there are twice as many fans in the ground compared to 15 years ago.

The recent NFL game at Wembley shows that it can have an amazing atmosphere, and I suspect if it held a rugby union game you'd get the atmosphere too. Football has changed though. Fans are more interested in using their camera phones than getting behind their teams.

Have you been?

The recent NFL game at Wembley shows that it can have an amazing atmosphere, and I suspect if it held a rugby union game you'd get the atmosphere too.

It's held two rugby union games already - neither were sell-outs though.

Have you been?

Yes.

It's held two rugby union games already - neither were sell-outs though.

Well thats true, though its unlikely those games would sell out. A big international match would though, and would have the atmosphere to go with it.