A vast amount of carbon was thrown into the atmosphere flying tens of thousands of Liverpool and Milan fans to Athens recently. Our grandchildren will curse us for such casual and pointless vandalism of the environment. The damage of that match will be felt and paid for in decades to come, long after those involved have forgotten it or died.

Should Europe have a custom-built football stadium that can host most European matches? Somewhere with a capacity of around 100,000? Is that the real size needed to accommodate demand for major matches - and can a stadium be designed that big that will enable fans to see what is going on. Could modern optics technology be used to hang huge "magnifiying glass" screens down for those in the furtherst and highest stands, so they get a better view of the action?

It would need to be located on or very close to the high-speed European train network, so as many fans as possible could travel by train instead of air. Wembley isn't on that route.

How about Lille? Brussels? Paris? Eurodisney? Ashford Kent? Stratford? Could the Olympic stadium be converted for football use?

nah

What matches would the stadium host?
Who would pay for the stadium?
How would the stadium make money or even just break even?

It's just not going to happen.

All uefa need to do is either introduce a 6* star stadium qualification. Only stadiums with this could host European finals. Or they could change the qualifications for being a 5* stadium.

People complain about the size of the Olympic Stadium, but Hampden Park successfully hosted the Final a few years ago and its capacity is 20,000 less.

they turn down wembley every time it gets offered, all they want is a stadium where they can get away with shafting people, as we'll see in russia next year!

The Champions League 'Star' Stadium in the intros of the tv coverage should be built!!! Probably somewhere like Paris, where it's accessible by train from all over europe (In other words, easy to access from Spain, Italy and the UK, going off recent finalists!!)

One thing being overlooked, UEFA doesn't care, in fact it doesn't want fans going to these games. It's a corrupt association, the final is a jolly for them to get back handers, kudos and self reward.

Look at the past 3 and next two destinations -

Istanbul - great stadium, great city but almost impossible to access

Paris - great stadium, great city, easy access

Athens - great stadium for a placid, all day come and go athletics crowd, largely inadequate for football with mass movements of people at key times, messy but pleasant city with great transport

Moscow - violent city for large visitor groups, hard to access, mafia/corruption rife (see how many jargs get printed and distributed here)

Rome - UEFA should seriously consider allowing ANY football match in the city given it's track record over the past 30 years or so, never mind a final. Without wishing to sound too pessimisstic this one could go really tits up

I don't want to see a UEFA stadium, I would like to see top class facilities being used in cities and countries that have well trained and tested policing methods, that are accessible and welcoming (top marks to both Istanbul and Athens for the hospitality offered by the locals even if UEFA/Athens corpy did the bare minimum). I want to see the final being OFFICIALLY the fans event and not the sponsors, I want to see people who pay hundreds and thousands of £'s treated with respect and not contempt and I want to see law and public order enforced and not confronted with indiscriminate violence - target the wrong doers not the majority.

Rotate between Munich, Paris, London, Amsterdam, Barcelona and Milan.

All are outstanding modern stadiums with superb facilities and transport links. In this day and age with budget airlines and high-speed railways, it doesn't need to be in the middle of the continent just handy for mass transport.

UEFA does seem to like its far flung destinations - Moscow, Athens, Istanbul, Glasgow Champions League final 2003, Manchester 2004, UEFA Cup final Glasgow last week. Where next, Vladivostock?

UEFA does seem to like its far flung destinations - Moscow, Athens, Istanbul, Glasgow Champions League final 2003, Manchester 2004, UEFA Cup final Glasgow last week. Where next, Vladivostock?
Nope...

Champions League 2003 - Glasgow
Champions League 2004 - Manchester
UEFA Cup 2007 - Glasgow
UEFA Cup 2008 - Manchester

:)

Magnifying lenses! lmao

Nope...

Champions League 2003 - Glasgow
Champions League 2004 - Manchester
UEFA Cup 2007 - Glasgow
UEFA Cup 2008 - Manchester

:)

Has anywhere outside London ( 3 European Cup finals I think ), Glasgow ( 3 European Cup finals ) and Manchester in the UK held the European Cup final?

The system should stay as it is, moving from city to city, it is one of the few sporting events that happens outside capital cities, Barcelona, Gelsenkirchen, Glasgow and Manchester spring to mind in the Champions League. No doubt Munich will get a final and a new Anfield will also be in the frame.

There will never be enough tickets to go around and English fans will have to get used to this fact.

The system should stay as it is, moving from city to city, it is one of the few sporting events that happens outside capital cities, Barcelona, Gelsenkirchen, Glasgow and Manchester spring to mind in the Champions League. No doubt Munich will get a final and a new Anfield will also be in the frame.

There will never be enough tickets to go around and English fans will have to get used to this fact.

Considering the cock ups made by UEFA and today Michael Platini is asking the G14 clubs to disband to avoid legal actions, I think its time for something to be done to UEFA not by UEFA. Surely UEFA should be answerable to the Clubs and the Fans too. I hope if a central stadium is built that UEFA have nothing to do with it. For the Champions league Final, they should choose a few stadiums each year and whne the finalists have got through, then decide the most appropriate stadium for the 2 clubs. And for a final like say Liverpool v Milan the minimum should be 30,000 tickets each, and the clubs should have some fair system of giving out tickets. For example spectators holding most tickets for the qualifying rounds not just to be sold with expensive executive packages.
The farce of all those fans getting in with counterfeit tickets is another problem to be blamed squarly at UEFA not the fans.

Magnifying lenses! lmao

I think they are called binoculars. And if you can't see from the back, then you must be short sighted and perhaps a spot in fron t of the telly would be more suitable.

We already have a 100,000 seater in Barcelona, but so what? This is sport not a greenpeace convention.

This thread is hilarious.

I'll be happily sat adjacent 4 rolls-royce trent turbofans cranking out the C02 for around 20 hours next week on my pointless trip back to blighty. Nice.

The farce of all those fans getting in with counterfeit tickets is another problem to be blamed squarly at UEFA not the fans.

I don't think this is a very rare problem, especially when Liverpool are playing. Remember last years FA cup farce?

Or Manchester United fans in Champions League ties, twice in one season, only last season. Fuckwit.

Why's everyone suddenly pounding on aviation? General aviation I agree is useless and vain as its just randomly flying around. But commercial aviation helps the economy and to help other people experience other cultures. An aeroplane is a very efficient form of transport in regards to carbon output per head travelled, so to bash commercial aviation is useless, and it will never die off :bash:

Why not a temporary stadium, that can be erected anywhere.

Why not a temporary stadium, that can be erected anywhere.

the costs of such a thing would be rediculously high, finding planning permission every year, building it, maintaining it etc. only to demolish it afterwards and built somewhare else the following year? it makes no economic sense...would be cheaper to use an existing stadium;)

I was thinking more along the lines of an inflateable stadium.

Better still would be to allow standing again, it would be then feasable to build a 200k all standing stadium on the same site as an 80k all seat stadium.

Room for everyone, no crush, pay on the door. How many watched the 1960 EC final ? how many died, fought, got crushed ? and that was in a stadium built out of cinders and railway sleepers.

I don't think this is a very rare problem, especially when Liverpool are playing. Remember last years FA cup farce?

You mean when the FA/Millenium stadium refused to issue duplicates on account of all the manc jibbers the previous year?

Let's not mention Lille/Lens.

Tit.

These things happen that's why we have SECURITY.

I don't think this is a very rare problem, especially when Liverpool are playing. Remember last years FA cup farce?

Shouldn't be too much of an issue for next season's UEFA Cup final. The City of Manchester Stadium has specially chipped RFID tickets (or cards for home supporters) which are used for access. If your RFID doesn't match the list of authorised entries or if that RFID is already in the stadium (even though they're extremely difficult to forge) the gates won't let you in.

Oh its the COM stadium, naturally assumed it was OT. Old Trafford not put in for it?

Or Manchester United fans in Champions League ties, twice in one season, only last season. Fuckwit.

Indeed. But whats the subtle suggestion in the second sentence? Craptwonk. No no wait.....cuntcharm - yes much funnier. No I'll just go for it - you theiving scouse workshy wanker.

You mean when the FA/Millenium stadium refused to issue duplicates on account of all the manc jibbers the previous year?

Let's not mention Lille/Lens.

Tit.

These things happen that's why we have SECURITY.

And you you sensitive soul.

A vast amount of carbon was thrown into the atmosphere flying tens of thousands of Liverpool and Milan fans to Athens recently. Our grandchildren will curse us for such casual and pointless vandalism of the environment. The damage of that match will be felt and paid for in decades to come, long after those involved have forgotten it or died.

Should Europe have a custom-built football stadium that can host most European matches? Somewhere with a capacity of around 100,000? Is that the real size needed to accommodate demand for major matches - and can a stadium be designed that big that will enable fans to see what is going on. Could modern optics technology be used to hang huge "magnifiying glass" screens down for those in the furtherst and highest stands, so they get a better view of the action?

It would need to be located on or very close to the high-speed European train network, so as many fans as possible could travel by train instead of air. Wembley isn't on that route.

How about Lille? Brussels? Paris? Eurodisney? Ashford Kent? Stratford? Could the Olympic stadium be converted for football use?What a ridiculous argument! Europe is geographically big. Fans will likely have to fly to it no matter where it's located. A location in central Europe would be flying distance from either Liverpool or Milan. And Wembley is on the European high speed rail network. London is connected to the HSR network and Wembley is as close to St Pancras as, say, the Stade de France is to central Paris termini. Barcelona may be on the high speed network too but it would still involve a flight for any English, German, or Italian team in the final.

I was trying to get my head round this post but i just haven't been able to. Unless we can guarentee that the 2 teams playing in the final every year are from the same country (if not region) as the proposed new stadium then surely its a bit of a waste of time!!!

Indeed. But whats the subtle suggestion in the second sentence? Craptwonk. No no wait.....cuntcharm - yes much funnier. No I'll just go for it - you theiving scouse workshy wanker.

Still intellectually challenged and odious personally, I see, Jerv. Carry on letting yourself down son.

I think the finalists should play it online with Nintendo Wii's. Then if they play ISS or something, they could pick and choose any European virtual stadium, and get ITV to broadcast it. Easy. :cheers:

What a ridiculous argument! Europe is geographically big. Fans will likely have to fly to it no matter where it's located. A location in central Europe would be flying distance from either Liverpool or Milan. And Wembley is on the European high speed rail network. London is connected to the HSR network and Wembley is as close to St Pancras as, say, the Stade de France is to central Paris termini. Barcelona may be on the high speed network too but it would still involve a flight for any English, German, or Italian team in the final.


You've missed the point. First of all, if people have to fly, they should fly the least possible distance. The pollution doesn't go, it is trapped in the system once released and creates econonomy and life-destroying change that will affect our children and grandchildren far more than us.

There is a big difference in the amount of carbon produced by flying for two hours instead of four hours, all other things being equal, although I conceded it is not a linear relationship as rather more fuel is burned during take off and ascent than at cruising altitude or on descent. So in terms of where to locate a match, you need to choose a place that is not almost bound to be very distant for the travelling fans. Unless one set of fans happen to be very local, you cannot choose a worse location on environmental criteria than a peripheral European city such as Athens, Istanbul, Helsinki or Lisbon. Most people in Europe will face a long flight to such locations.

So if some people are going to need to fly, and you want to minimise the carbon from that, you want them to fly shorter distances, which indicates a matc location somwhere around eastern France, Germany, Switzerland or Benelux. That was my suggestion - I didnt say that being on a high speed line was the sole or sufficient criteria, because obviously Seville or wherever is still going to be a hell of a hike for those coming from the most populous regions of Europe which are in the north.

A good point about Paris/London....any idea how long it takes to get from Kings Cross to Wembley by tube? Maybe we should add Wembley to the list.

However, in the case of this match, a venue like Strasbourg would have been accessible to both Milan and Liverpool fans by high speed trains. Certainly it would be do'able for the Milanese by train, and whilst a bit of a hike for the Liverpool fans, not beyond the bounds of reason for those prepared to stay one night instead of doing it as a long day trip. We either try reduce our flying or we don't - and sometimes it means changing the places where do things, and sometimes it means getting out of bed an hour earlier to get the train instead of the plane, sometimes it means spending a few quid more on a ticket even if flying is sometimes cheaper.

UEFA should be set targets that no more than half of fans travel to future matches will find plane the most advantageous mode, and that the average flying time of those who come by plane is less than 120 minutes.

Edited: thinking about it, the French love their grand projects, and being home to European institutions, so maybe they would pay for a 100,000 seater European National Football Stadium by Strasbourg train station? I've never been to Strasbourg to apologies if that suggestion means terrible destruction of a UNESCO heritage site or something, but I'm sure they could fit a stadium in somewhere within walking distance of the station.

Has anywhere outside London ( 3 European Cup finals I think ), Glasgow ( 3 European Cup finals ) and Manchester in the UK held the European Cup final?

There's only been 9 Champion league finals of the new format (previous to this European Cup Winners Cup was the most prestigious but it was abolished and the UEFA cup took its place, all of this was to make way for Champions League).

From the old format, the last ever European Cup Winners Cup final was at Villa Park 1999. The atmosphere was magnificent, Lazio won 2-1 :)

Wembley also held the cup in '93 & '65, Hampdon park in '62 & '66

-Back to the original thread, a central location would take the fun out of it, but having a minimum *5 stadium and ~90% of tickets to the clubs in the final, would be a good idea
:dance:

-repost

The European Cup Winners Cup was the arse end of European cups. That's not to say it was meaningless or bad but it fell a long way behind the UEFA Cup and was miles behind the European Cup.

Is that because Liverpool failed to win it? According to everyone else, it was the UEFA/Fairs cup that was the Mickey Mouse pot, especially when they had that 1 team per city ruling. Newcastle (10th) were only eligible to play in it because Everton finished below Liverpool and Tottenham and Arsenal finished below Chelsea that season.

Surely travelling to a new city is half the experience?

Newcastle actually qualified when Man Utd won the European Cup and so got a European Cup spot for the following season as opposed to a FAIRS cup place.

What year are you talking about?

We hardly got in the Cup Winners Cup since other stuff took precedence so I suppose that's part of the answer.

Cinosanap - spot on. The travel, visiting and new experience is all part of the deal.

I thought it was because you hardly ever won the FA Cup? '65 & '74 before the Euro ban. A second placed league team winning the cup would've been in the cup winners' cup. Even so, didn't the R/S get to the final after one of these occasions?

The European Cup Winners Cup was the arse end of European cups. That's not to say it was meaningless or bad but it fell a long way behind the UEFA Cup and was miles behind the European Cup.That takes some beating that.

Come on goldie, you can't compare a compitition littered with 3rd rate teams (who cares for domestic cup football outside of england and Scotland?) with ones that were contested by league champions and runners up.

The Cup Winners Cup may have held sway in the Fairs Cup era but there after it diminished.

We were robbed in '66. We fucked up good and proper in '96.

Come on goldie, you can't compare a compitition littered with 3rd rate teams (who cares for domestic cup football outside of england and Scotland?) with ones that were contested by league champions and runners up.

The Cup Winners Cup may have held sway in the Fairs Cup era but there after it diminished.

We were robbed in '66. We fucked up good and proper in '96.

You're right in that Toad,it was easier to win the CWC but Fairs and later the Uefa was always regarded as the 3rd in the pecking order.It was only given a single match final in the last is it 10 years.Liverpool's wins in 73 and 76 were both 2 legged finals.

Nope...

Champions League 2003 - Glasgow
Champions League 2004 - Manchester
UEFA Cup 2007 - Glasgow
UEFA Cup 2008 - Manchester

:)

nope

Champions League 2002 (2001/2002 season)- Glasgow
Champions League 2003 (2002/2003 season)- Manchester

:)

The final should be played at the home ground of the team with the best record.

Madrid?

of the two finalists at the time.

record in that season's Champions League.

Not a neutral venue.

It is a league after all.

That would only really work if there were two European giants with impressive, large stadia in the final. Villarreal nearly made it a couple of years back, and their ground was like the National Hockey Centre.

How about in that case, it is played at the nearest 70,000+ capacity stadium to said club? It'll piss the redshite off to play at Old Trafford should Satan need fellatiating again. Sorry, I meant if they deservedly won through to another Champions League final.... ;)

I'd love us to play a final at Man Uniteds place, really rub their noses in it.

We've already beaten a home side in a European Cup final, we're ace.

It would be a "home" match. The team with the best record would play at home, visiting fans would only get a small percentage of tickets.

They would have to watch it on the TV.

That would only really work if there were two European giants with impressive, large stadia in the final. Villarreal nearly made it a couple of years back, and their ground was like the National Hockey Centre.

How about in that case, it is played at the nearest 70,000+ capacity stadium to said club? It'll piss the redshite off to play at Old Trafford should Satan need fellatiating again. Sorry, I meant if they deservedly won through to another Champions League final.... ;)

That's a pretty good idea. Would love to watch Liverpool play a home game Champions League game at Manchester United ;-) :banana: :banana: :banana:

just wait until they know which teams are in the final and then search for a ground within optimum travel distance ie a ground within the country of one of the finalists or one that is near both, skewed towards environmentally friendly forms of transport ie electric rail.