Developments at Dundee Waterfront [Archive] - Page 4

Rich B

February 8th, 2010, 12:14 PM

ARCHITECT FRANK GEHRY, the man responsible for some of the most iconic buildings on the planet, has ruled himself out of the running to design Dundee’s new V&A museum, it was confirmed last night.

Mr Gehry, who designed the Maggie’s Centre in Dundee and is best known for Bilbao’s Guggenheim Museum, has decided that he has too much work on at the moment to contemplate taking part in the competition to design the £47 million museum on the Tay.

It is understood that, had he been commissioned, Dundee would have become the first city in Europe to boast two Gehry-designed buildings.

However, Fred Stephen of Glamis-based architects James F. Stephen, said he had received a text from Mr Gehry’s company effectively ending its interest in the job.

Mr Stephen’s practice would have acted as Mr Gehry’s associate architects and they have been in regular touch with his office since the project, for which The Courier is media partner, was first announced.

Mr Stephen said Mr Gehry, who will be 81 at the end of the month, was very keen on the V&A project but added, “I got a text message from one of their directors to say that they have so much work on their books they can’t resource a competition.

“Mr Gehry has been very busy working on projects all over the world, including some involving £250 million contracts.

“Unfortunately, they are definitely out of the running now. Frank called me up one evening at 10.30pm and said he would like to do the V&A museum but he didn’t think he would do it as a competition. The text message has confirmed that.

“He’s in the position where he can pick and choose his work and I suppose there was the chance that he might put a lot of work and resources into it and then lose out.

“My own feeling is that it’s a lost opportunity for Dundee. Frank would have had a pretty big input into the design of the museum.

“It won’t be too long before we know the calibre of architect that has entered the competition. I know the people behind the V&A are looking for a signature architect and it may yet end up going to a big name.”

Dundee University, Dundee City Council and the Victoria and Albert Museum make up the partners in the ambitious project.

A spokesman for the university, which is handling publicity for the group, said last night that, from its inception, the V&A museum was always going to be an architectural competition.

He added, “The first stage of the design competition has already attracted hundreds of entries from all over the world, including some very prestigious names.

“The interest has been intense and I am sure we will end up with a very exciting building.”

The 7000 square metre museum is set to be built on land next to Discovery Point, south-east of Craig Harbour, jutting out above the river on a promontory.

As well as creating 900 jobs and bringing more than 100,000 visitors to Dundee each year, the museum will transform Dundee’s skyline, being visible from the city centre, from its western approach and from the Tay road bridge.

The V&A steering panel will decide on a shortlist of five or six designs this month and will have chosen the winning design before the end of June.

It is anticipated that construction will get under way in 2012, with the museum opening to the public two years later.

dufc1909

February 8th, 2010, 01:38 PM

From the letters page of the online courier.

Ideal V&A candidate

Sir,—As the competition to design the Victoria and Albert Museum at Dundee develops, I hope that one locally born, internationally renowned architect will not be passed over in the race to engage a more populist name for the project.

Kathryn Findlay, ex- chair of architecture and environment at Dundee University, set up the hugely influential Ushida Findlay Architects in 1987.

Since then, she has designed some of the most innovative and transformative architecture of our time and has become one of the most respected architects in the world.

And she was born a farmer’s daughter in Forfar.

If Dundee truly seeks a visionary building to become the flagship structure of the city, I can think of no greater name to approach to build it.

I`m not so sure about Ushida Findlay ! ! !

Great to see the competition is hotting up though . .

http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/10/30/park-houses-by-ushida-findlay-architects/

Rich B

February 8th, 2010, 01:50 PM

Quirinalian

February 8th, 2010, 08:48 PM

I don't suppose Quinlan Terry is in with a shot...

*Sniff*.

Jaydot

February 9th, 2010, 11:29 AM

This is news to me...anyone have more info on this?

PLANS TO develop a rail freight facility at the Port of Dundee would help to meet the Scottish Government’s aim of moving more goods by rail instead of road, city councillors heard last night.

The council’s city development committee approved a response to a government consultation document on rail freight policy.

City development director Mike Galloway said the policy was aimed at assisting in establishing a long-term vision for rail in Scotland.

Mr Galloway said the rail network played an important role in increasing economic growth through the efficient movement of goods.

“Development of policy that supports and encourages increased modal shift to rail from less sustainable modes of transport will contribute to the Scottish Government target to achieve a reduction in (carbon) emissions by 80% by 2050,” he said.

In the formal response to the consultation document, the council accepts there is a need to encourage increased use of rail. Mr Galloway said the council considered moving additional freight by rail is a more sustainable method for transporting goods and materials over medium to long distances, compared to equivalent road-based methods.

“The council is working with partners to develop a possible rail freight facility in the Port of Dundee that, in future, would allow more freight to be transferred from road to rail,” he said.

“The Port of Dundee plays an important economic role and the council is supporting this by improving accessibility to the road network. These improvements would assist the development of a rail freight facility in the port.”

The Labour opposition group spokesman on city development, Tom Ferguson, said he was glad to see such a positive attitude from the council to the government’s consultation document.

He said the rail freight issue as it related to the Port of Dundee could prove to be a major project and a financial spur for the city and surrounding areas.

“These are early days in this concept but it is crucial that we take an energetic attitude and involvement and put Dundee’s case to the front for its development and delivery,” he said.

Councillor Ferguson said the port would also be an important partner as a support service for any renewable energy hub that might develop in Dundee.

“This whole area can become a source for employment as it develops alongside freight network planning,” he said.

Committee convener Will Dawson welcomed Mr Ferguson’s positive comments and the unanimous backing from the committee for the response to the consultation.

dufc1909

February 9th, 2010, 03:40 PM

You can find most things with a bit of Google digging . . .

http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/reports/agendas/cd080210.pdf

Rail freight policy document

dufc1909

February 10th, 2010, 01:37 PM

Has anyone seen this . . .

http://www.fdimagazine.com/cp/10/FDI_052-055_0208-2.pdf

Rather interesting . . .

Luke Nohands

February 10th, 2010, 02:35 PM

Thats quite impressive. Just shows how far Dundee has come in a short space of time. :banana:

Rich B

February 10th, 2010, 08:28 PM

Thats quite impressive. Just shows how far Dundee has come in a short space of time. :banana:

brilliant, dundee voted 4th best small city in europe if im not mistaken

Luke Nohands

February 11th, 2010, 12:52 PM

Yeah that's my take on it too. Work in Perth myself. I wonder what the green eyed monster I hate scumdee brigade will make of it. Ha ha

jeff_h

February 11th, 2010, 08:00 PM

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djmacdonald73

February 12th, 2010, 10:35 PM

A housing association is investigating the possibility of taking over two multi-storey blocks in Dundee’s Hilltown, despite property experts casting doubt on the feasibility of the plan (writes Bruce Robbins).
The city’s housing convener Jimmy Black was the first to raise the prospect of retaining Bucklemaker and Butterburn Courts through private sector investment, having ruled out local authority support.
Although his comments were initially given short shrift by Abertay Housing Association and property agents J&E Shepherd, Angus Housing Association believes a case could be made for savings the multis.

The housing association confirmed today that it is “actively investigating” the viability of retention.

Director Bruce Forbes said that, while there could be no guarantees of that option stacking up at such an early stage of the process, the proposal is worthy of more detailed investigation.

Speaking after receiving a feasibility report on the matter, he said, “This report is a worthwhile starting point and it confirms that these multi-storey blocks are fundamentally sound buildings and that the past investment made by the council has ensured their structural integrity.

“It is also clear that the financial restrictions faced by the council make it impossible for them to raise the necessary finance to improve the quality of the flats to modern standards without huge rent increases that would make them unaffordable to most households without entitlement to full housing benefit.

“This does not mean, however, that a funding package to retain the blocks cannot be put in place if ownership is transferred to a housing association.

“The huge cost and disturbance of demolition can be offset against the investment needed and, environmentally, retention is a far better prospect than the carbon cost of replacing 374 houses from scratch.”

However, the housing association boss did sound a note of caution saying that a lot of hard work would be required before the multis could be retained — not least of which would be raising the necessary private finance.

The council believes that between £8m and £14m is needed to bring the buildings up to scratch.

He added, “We also understand that a report is awaited from Tayside Fire and Rescue on some technical aspects of fire safety issues.

“The recent policy of emptying the flats of tenants would also need to be reversed as soon as possible, but we know that, historically, the Derby Street multis were very popular homes.

“There is no reason why this cannot be the case again with the correct investment in improvements and the introduction of suitable management policies and services.

“The individual flats are very spacious and with some investment in bringing insulation up to the highest possible standards, a fully occupied block with a modern, controllable heating system should be able to minimise the potentially worrying impact of future, unpredictable energy costs.

“The most encouraging thing about the future of Derby Street for me, however, is the commitment of the remaining tenants who have fought to keep their homes.

“This is clearly a foundation that it should be possible to build upon.

“Given the efforts they have made to date, the least they deserve is that the option they have promoted is now given serious consideration.

“This is something that the Angus Housing Association will be doing over the coming weeks.”

Dundee City Council has already made it clear it cannot borrow the money needed to refurbish the multis, but is open to interest from private sector landlords.

Abertay HA more or less ruled themselves out, describing the renovation costs as “unrealistic” and “financially unfeasible”.

J&E Shepherd partner Paul Letley said his experience of the property business told him that people “want rid of the multis”.

He said, “They come with lots of social problems and health and safety issues. They are also very expensive.

“They are in a different league when it comes to maintenance and repairs. They are a blight on the city’s skyline — not pleasant to live in and they bring the city down.

“They will drain on resources for evermore and will never be the first choice for anyone to live in.”

Townie Tam

February 14th, 2010, 10:57 PM

Just catching up with one or three posts.

WEST STATION

jeff_h - you typed in post #739 - January 26th, 2010, 09:07 PM -

"Everything to the right of the road was demolished along with IMO the magnificent West Station even though I have only seen drawings of it!"

I doubt you were having a senior moment there. You, yourself, posted a photo of West Station -

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1046/624010874_6562cfca9b.jpg

in post #27 - June 25th, 2007, 08:52 PM and "belfastbap" posted one in post #139 - February 18th, 2008, 12:06 PM -

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2106/2274337350_3a4d472802_o.jpg

LIDL WEST PORT

It's all very well complaining about the appearance of the building but it doesn't seem to be acknowledged that the city centre NEEDS Lidl. Before Lidl took over the West Port building, Tesco had it all its own way. Non car owning city centre residents had no choice but to use Tesco Murraygate. Tesco looks on its Metro stores as up-market, for workers to buy stuff before they go home. Thus, the Tesco Metro store stocked none of the "Tesco Value" ranges - until Lidl opened and provided competition to their monopoly.

Wouldn't it be fine if Lidl bought over the Salvation Army and the windscreen business and were a bit more ambitious about utilising their land? Also, it shouldn't be forgotten who sold the shop and land to Lidl because they had no use for it. Yes that's right - Lend Lease, the owners of the Overgate Centre!

And another thing - the council shouldn't be using the threat of compulsory purchase to allow Lend Lease to get what they want. The council should not be getting involved in favouring one commercial enterprise over another.

BARRACK STREET LIBRARY / MUSEUM

This was Dundee's 5th Carnegie Library. After many years as a library, it became the Natural History Museum until it closed. This is from:-

http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/leisurecomms/collectionsunit/

McManus Collections Unit, Barrack Street

http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/dundeecity/uploaded_images/image_1602_tn.jpg

The McManus Collections Unit is the new permanent home for the City’s History, Archaeology and Natural History Collections.

This newly fitted-out facility stores everything from birds to butterflies, coins to costumes and fossils to foreign arefacts, while The McManus: Dundee's Art Gallery and Museum undergoes an exciting and extensive refurbishment project.

It should be noted that as this was one of the libraries gifted to the city by Andrew Carnegie, it is a Common Good asset. Dundee still does not maintain a register of Common Good assets, although, according to Audit Scotland, a register of Common Good assets should have been in place by March 2009.
St Roque's Library, now a night club, is another. I wonder if this is still owned by the council? It should be, as it was another of Carnegie's gifts...

dufc1909

February 15th, 2010, 09:40 AM

djmacdonald73

February 15th, 2010, 07:49 PM

St Roques Library, a Carneigie building built by James Thomsom architect and town planner, is owned by Keiller estates ( Bruce Linton ).

On another note . . . can anyone tell me if the victorian underground toilets on the perth rd are still open, I just cant remember if they were closed. If closed I`d like to see them open agian.

Are you talking about the ones next to the old grassy semi-circle, just across from Airlie Place? If so, I think they got filled in as part of the redevelopment of that area.

dufc1909

February 16th, 2010, 11:18 AM

Bugger . . yes it was.

I have these memories of victorian ceramic, cast iron, wood and brass.
2d to have a private cubicle paid into a little brass lock. Vacant or engaged . .

I suppose it had to be closed as it would have been a haven for allsorts.

Unless privatised and manned ! !

Jaydot

February 17th, 2010, 04:03 PM

No Doubt, every one is of the same opinion on this one....but will NR ever be shifted?:bash::bash:

From the Tele:

Town-planning students, asked to come up with ideas for further improving Dundee’s city centre, have zeroed in on the down-at-heel Taybridge railway station as a facility in sore need of a makeover (writes Bruce Robbins).
The third-year students today presented some of their suggested improvements to Dundee City Centre Action Group, and the condition of the station played a central role.
Councillors, MPs and MSPs from all political parties have made repeated calls for ScotRail and Network Rail to upgrade the station to a level befitting Scotland’s fourth city, but have, so far, failed to persuade them. Now, the students have added their voice to the campaign.

Module tutor Manik Gopinath said the prospect of the prestigious V&A museum coming to Dundee added impetus. She said, “Improve- ment of the railway station was one of the points raised in the exercise. With the V&A coming here, it was felt we needed a business-class lounge for those people who might want to come to Dundee by train.

“The students also thought the city needed a big leisure and music venue in the centre to compete with Glasgow and to offer economic opportunities to hotels and shops.

“Another idea was that local companies should be encouraged to have their HQ in the city centre.”

The CCAG tasked the 23 town-planning students with developing practical ideas for a better city centre and today’s presentation was an opportunity for the students to update the group on their thoughts.

The students concentrated on themes of retailing, housing, transport, business and leisure and have produced posters detailing their suggested improvements.

Gregor Hamilton, team leader for partnership and regeneration with the city council, said the students had their own ideas of what should happen in the city centre.

He said, “From the council’s point of view, we are always looking to consult and hear new thoughts and suggestions. We have been working with the action group for a number of years on what needs to be done in the city centre. Students bring a different perspective and we are always keen to see their ideas.

“The railway arrival point is particularly important for Dundee and it does need to be improved. What the students are saying ties in with our goal of trying to get a 21st century station for Dundee, especially given its proximity to the proposed site for the V&A museum.”

Action group chairman Dave Doig said some of his members went to the university to hold a workshop. He said, “One aim is to get students to do practical work on real issues affecting the city centre. They’ve been generating ideas based on issues in the centre at the moment.”

s.findlay

February 17th, 2010, 08:36 PM

Overgate - Work is under way fitting out a number of units in the centre.
Topshop & Topman are taking over a huge area of the centre i think 6 units altogether! It will over two floors as well. Another shop is also being fitted it a Viyella store which is a new store for the city.

Kingsway West Retail Park - Work is well underway at both the new Dunelm Mill store and the Next Home and both are opening up in early march. The Next Home store is quite a coup as the only other store in Scotland is at Braehead in Glasgow. Also PC World and Curry's are moving to a combined store (current Curry's store) again happening in early March. Rumours are that a Marks & Spencers are to be moving into the unit that will be vacated by PC World.

Wellgate Centre - Has been hit badly by the recession with a number of retailers folding. The lastest to be put in administration is Ethal Austin however hopefully it can be saved!

Urban Life

February 18th, 2010, 06:40 PM

Thanks for the retail update, it's good to see there is still confidence in the city's retail sector. It's also nice to hear that new shops are coming into the city as well- it keeps things dynamic.

jeff_h

February 20th, 2010, 01:52 PM

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adammccall

February 22nd, 2010, 06:42 PM

Permission has been granted for Tesco to fill the vacant unit of the Casino on Hawkhill.

http://bwarrant.dundeecity.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=KUSX8OGC03700&searchtype=WEEKLY

Luke Nohands

February 23rd, 2010, 06:41 PM

Permission has been granted for Tesco to fill the vacant unit of the Casino on Halkhill.

http://bwarrant.dundeecity.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=KUSX8OGC03700&searchtype=WEEKLY

So that fancy new casino is going to have a bloody supermarket underneath it?? Well done planning department. Riverside drive all over again!!!

Townie Tam

February 24th, 2010, 11:56 PM

.
It's been known since before the first sod was cut that Tesco was going in there.

Just a further reinforcement of their stranglehold on the city centre - especially if the council invoke a compulsory purchase on Lidl West Port to facilitate Lend Lease's (stalled) plans for Overgate expansion.

I repeat: the removal of Lidl from the city centre is NOT in the interests of city centre residents, who want competing supermarkets fighting for their custom.

Luke Nohands

February 25th, 2010, 12:48 AM

Would much prefer seeing the overgate extended tbh. Lidl AND tesco shouldn't have such prominent sites. The Murraygate and Wellgate are dead. Be a good area for lidl, be competition for the existing metro. And with m&s foodhall there too would be a close competitive area for townie foodshopping. EVERYONE'S A WINNER, LUVLY JUBBLY and all that!

dufc1909

February 26th, 2010, 11:18 AM

Nice article . . .

http://living.scotsman.com/visual-arts/Art-Review-Walldela-Dundee-McManus.6068964.jp

djmacdonald73

February 26th, 2010, 10:54 PM

Dundee’s McManus Galleries will reopen to the public at 12.30pm on Sunday after its £12 million restoration — and admission is still free (writes Jennifer Cosgrove).
The Victorian building, which has been closed since late 2005, has been completely transformed inside, and promises visitors a journey through time, from 400 million years ago, with the geological origins of the land on which Dundee now stands, to the present day.
A major change to the well-loved gallery is the main entrance, which has been switched from the north to the south side. There is also a new reception area, cafe and shop. A spectacular winding staircase has also been created in the east wing of the building, which is now flooded by natural light from a rooftop atrium.

Outside, the gardens have been redesigned and a new pedestrian precinct has been added.

Rooms are themed to ensure a logical journey through the exhibits, beginning with Landscape and Lives, showing Dundee’s interaction between the land and the wildlife and people who came to inhabit it.

The Making of Modern Dundee, which charts the rapidly-changing city from 1850 to the present day, includes the famous Tay Whale.

Upstairs, Dundee and the World focuses on the fascinating range of international artefacts donated to the galleries and museum by merchants, missionaries and people returning from military campaigns abroad.

The Victoria Gallery houses an impressive collection of 19th century art, and 50 Scottish masterpieces from touring exhibition Consider The Lilies will be on show in a neighbouring room.

Further details are available by visiting the new website www.mcmanus.co.uk or call 01382 307200.

Can`t make it myself this Sunday......is anyone else on the forum planning on going down?

dufc1909

March 2nd, 2010, 11:07 AM

"Can`t make it myself this Sunday......is anyone else on the forum planning on going down? "

Geez . .the silence that accompanied that question was deafining :)

The article in todays online courier is pretty good and made me quite nostalgic.

I`m in Dundee this coming weekend for a long break and will take in the Mcmanus museum and galleries and the Iain Macmillan exibition down at the Discovery.

I suppose my museum claim to fame is that my brother supplied the Wm Low carrier bag now on display. . . .

Rich B

March 2nd, 2010, 01:14 PM

djmacdonald73

March 2nd, 2010, 04:26 PM

Jaydot

March 2nd, 2010, 10:17 PM

Went to the MacMillan exhibition, very interesting stuff, great photos and very informative. Although I love the Discovery point, it is not the best place for this kind of thing as the tables get in the way and you feel you are intruding in other peoples space while they are having a cuppa :nuts:

Urban Life

March 6th, 2010, 02:43 PM

Had a wander through town today and took a few snaps of Dundee House & the Opal 1 Flats at Parker St.
I've just put them on Flickr as I couldn't get them onto here! -frustrating! Will try to add some more in the future, hopefully it keeps people informed on how the projects are progressing.

Here's the link:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/48100590@N05/?saved=1

P.S Passed the units underneath the Holiday Inn Express and there were some work going on - don't know if they're being fitted out, but there is movement.

djmacdonald73

March 6th, 2010, 09:16 PM

I`m pretty sure it`s a Papa Johns which is going in at the bottom.

jeff_h

March 8th, 2010, 07:40 PM

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adammccall

March 8th, 2010, 08:43 PM

That's great news! I can't wait to see them!

alonzo-ny

March 8th, 2010, 11:49 PM

Please, Dundee, don't just pick a run of the mill starchitect. It needs to be an up and comer with real talent. Another copy paste titanium Gehry, triangular Libeskind, concrete wavy Hadid just won't do.

let forever be

March 8th, 2010, 11:58 PM

alonzo-ny

March 9th, 2010, 12:56 AM

That is my point. If Dundee builds something identical there will be no reason to go there. Dundee needs its own icon not just a pathetic copy.

let forever be

March 9th, 2010, 12:59 AM

That is my point. If Dundee builds something identical there will be no reason to go there. Dundee needs its own icon not just a pathetic copy.

We don't know what will be built. Can £47 million build something of magnitude in this day and age?

You could make the argument that a 'Gehry-esque' Bilbao building would help Dundee become known just because who designed it. I personally don't really care for his stuff.

Hadid's work is someone's I like but she is notorious for not exactly sticking to budgets.

It is apparently getting built out into the water - if this is so then that in and of itself is quite a striking feature.

alonzo-ny

March 9th, 2010, 01:36 AM

let forever be

March 9th, 2010, 01:43 AM

Do you know how many buildings Gehry has design that look exactly like Bilbao? You would probably need both hands to count. To get on the map it needs something new not just a replica. Why go to Dundee when you could see the original in Bilbao? Or the first copy, second copy, third etc.

the £47 million price tag doesn't seem very much - on paper it is a lot of money but in today's world, how truly iconic can a building be for that price tag.

Rich B

March 9th, 2010, 11:16 AM

the £47 million price tag doesn't seem very much - on paper it is a lot of money but in today's world, how truly iconic can a building be for that price tag.

I have to agree, the Guggenheim in Bilbao cost $100 million dollars in 1997 which i believe to be about £65 million, add on inflation and it would probably cost about £100 million today, double the budget for the V and A. Saying that, Bilbao was totally expensive will all that titanium. I dont think the V and A will be of a similar size either as I read as it will be about half the size of the baltic galleries in gateshead which cost £43 million, but for a refurb of an existing structure. Does anyone know any of the participating design teams which have entered? I have read that there are many combined design teams with 3XN of Holland teaming up with Nicoll Russell Studios of Broughty Ferry !

alonzo-ny

March 9th, 2010, 12:21 PM

the £47 million price tag doesn't seem very much - on paper it is a lot of money but in today's world, how truly iconic can a building be for that price tag.

So why do think we can afford to copy a shit Gehry building?

Good architecture does not equal expensive. Gehry is expensive but shit.

let forever be

March 9th, 2010, 02:55 PM

So why do think we can afford to copy a shit Gehry building?

Good architecture does not equal expensive. Gehry is expensive but shit.

PLEASE READ MY POSTS PROPERLY MATE!!!!!!

At no point did I say I wanted personally a Frank Gehry building but you keep on implying I do. Stop attributing this to me. Where exactly did I say we should copy one of his buildings? Why are you actually attributing that to me?

Fair enough, you don't want 'star-architecture' in Dundee but equally, I never advocated Frank Gehry from a personal point of view. I merely raised his name in reference to the topic of star-architecture. For goodness sake, people are merely discussing the issue and you are getting all high and mighty with the "why do you think we can afford to copy......Gehry is shit" when no-one actually desired such a thing or even stated it.

jeff_h

March 9th, 2010, 07:20 PM

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Rich B

March 9th, 2010, 08:34 PM

Can anyone tell me why the Old Albert Institute was renamed after the Lord Provost McManus who was responsible for so much of the destruction of Old Dundee?

dufc1909

March 10th, 2010, 10:44 AM

Was he not given an OBE for services to landfill :ohno: and the council decided that he deserved recognition by re-naming our most famous building still standing after him.

The V&A discussion is quite interesting, I dont believe for one minute that the budget of £47mil will be adhered too. As I dont think that the cost of dundee house will be kept in budget.

Was in Dundee over the weekend . . . brilliant, what a change is going on.

I`m even starting to like the parker st flats . . . .

The Mcmanus is looking really good, interesting layout and collection. Its now a good modern city museum and gallery.
There is a down side however.
I brought a party of 6 there on sunday, we liked the look of the modern entrance and cafe, were in the mood for a coffee and something to eat.

Not only was the coffee awful, warm milk in fact but the food fare was well below par. The poorest of ingredients put together by someone who did`nt care what it looked like and well over priced for what you got. OK heres my point, I would never be served that fare anywhere in Europe or the states, I had to appologise to my guests.
Now the other thing . . . . . the new building was stinking of burned cheese, burned toast and bacon . . not very nice . . . why is there an all day breakfast on the menu. Why did it need a truckstop cafe. Why was the franchise not given to a recognised name that doesnt sell cheese and chips . . . :mad:

Rich B

March 10th, 2010, 10:49 AM

I agree, I went for lunch there and thought the menu was very unsophisticated for such an establishment. Someone told me it was Willows coffee shop from Broughty Ferry which had the franchise.

dufc1909

March 12th, 2010, 09:58 AM

I can only hope someone with influence realises that the building and visitors deserve much better. . . .

During my visit back home I visited the Unicorn and Discovery.
The Discovery exibition is really good and I would urge anyone who has`nt seen it to go along.
Unicorn is the Unicorn, 136 years in Dundee and another must see in its own right, but I was looking through the website and came across this page where they say Unicorn has a proposed berth in the new waterfront.
I always thought Unicorn would stay where it is, but I like the idea of both ships in view of each other.
Can anyone shed any light onthe proposal.

http://www.frigateunicorn.org/hms-unicorn/a-dundee-ship

Rich B

March 12th, 2010, 05:23 PM

jeff_h

March 13th, 2010, 05:38 PM

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Red Star over Lochee

March 17th, 2010, 12:39 AM

Can anyone tell me why the Old Albert Institute was renamed after the Lord Provost McManus who was responsible for so much of the destruction of Old Dundee?

That's a pretty good question. I seem to remember reading in the local press that there was talk of renaming it back to the Albert Institute when it reopened, but rather unsurprisingly this didn't come to anything.

It would've been great if the grand staircase on the West side had been reopened, it still seems rather neglected in its present state.

dufc1909

March 17th, 2010, 12:30 PM

The Mcmanus galleries website tells us "It was renamed 'McManus Galleries' in the mid 1980s in recognition of Maurice McManus OBE, twice Lord Provost of Dundee who championed works during the period which stabilised the building."

I`m quite sure the building sits on a site where two underground burns meet and the building was starting to sink. I think thats why this latest upgrade took so long.

I still think that once we knew the V&A were coming to Dundee it should have reverted back to Albert Institute and Galleries.

Jaydot

March 19th, 2010, 08:31 PM

This, we could do without, it is incorrect & misleading......

19 March 2010
It IS Bonnie Dundee!

Council and tourist board chiefs have hit back after Dundee was branded one of the country’s top three “No Entry” cities (writes Lisa Trainer).
Dundee was viewed as “unexciting” by many in a controversial new survey, with only Bradford and Wakefield surpassing its position in the poll as an undesirable holiday destination.
A survey of 5000 Britons conducted by Travelodge asked which places they would and would not like to visit and why.

The results showed 72% of people consider the City of Discovery to be “unexciting” and a quarter said they would avoid the city because of its reputation of having bad weather throughout the year.

Councillor Will Dawson, convener of city development for Dundee City Council, said the city has “charm” and that the people are some of the “friendliest” in the country.

He added, “The charm of Dundee lies in the sum of its parts: its tremendous geographical location, its growing cultural quarter, its many tourist attractions and last, but not least, its people — which the Lonely Planet travel guide has described as among the friendliest and most entertaining you’ll meet.”

Dundee’s tourism industry is critical to the success of the city with around £70 million being contributed to the area’s economy every year.

VisitScotland disputed the conclusions drawn from the survey, and claimed the 500,000 visitors who make their way to Dundee each year would “heartily disagree”.

“It is culturally vibrant and home to the likes of the five-star rated Discovery Point attraction, Scottish Dance Theatre, Dundee Rep, plus a buzzing restaurant and shopping scene and a young and lively vibe,” said a spokeswoman.

“A quick look at our latest campaign website will confirm that Dundee is a must-visit, must-return destination. The survey should be taken with a hefty pinch of salt.”

Councillor Tom Ferguson said he viewed the research as a “challenge”.

“I’m yet to be convinced on those results,” said the Locheee councillor. “But if it is true, then we should take positive steps to reverse that belief.

“We can’t control the issue of weather, but the city’s image we can control.

“I’d like to see how specific those questions were and I’m tempted to think that another survey may have come to another conclusion. It does give food for thought, and I’ll be discussing with my colleagues as to how to improve the city’s image.”

He concluded he was “surprised at the findings”, but was determined to take measures to counter such claims.

Dundee has previously been named Scotland’s sunniest and warmest city by the MET office, with temperatures tending to be a couple of degrees higher than other cities in the country due to its south-facing position.

The most popular places to visit in the UK included Edinburgh in fourth position, with London, Birmingham and Manchester taking the top three spots.

This just shows how ignorant some people are......staying away due to weather when we are the sunniest city in Scotland!

jeff_h

March 20th, 2010, 12:26 PM

.................................................................

alonzo-ny

March 20th, 2010, 10:24 PM

That thing about the weather is ridiculous. Isn't Dundee the sunniest city in Scotland? It is miles better than rainy Glasgow.

jeff_h

March 21st, 2010, 08:33 PM

................................................................

RapidTaco

March 22nd, 2010, 04:18 PM

Ach I wouldn't worry about these survey's. These things are forgotten about as soon as they are printed. There will be another one along soon saying Dundee is one of the best places to visit.

Like Glasgow, Dundee is making big leaps forward from its industrial past - just ignore the naysayers!

Rich B

March 22nd, 2010, 11:07 PM

As discussed in post 825 here are the potential plans for the Customs House
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4041/4450827161_999219a8e1_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2730/4451591198_9d876ce5bf_o.jpg

Hey,

I like the look the look of those proposals, do you have any further info Jef or is it just pie in the sky?

djmacdonald73

March 23rd, 2010, 01:10 PM

TWO GIANT wind turbines—described as “monstrosities”—which are planned for the Port of Dundee will ruin the city’s skyline, angry residents have claimed.

The plan for the 127-metre high structures at Stannergate has generated fury among locals who say the turbines will not only ruin their outlooks but will give a bad impression for those travelling into Dundee from Broughty Ferry and over the Tay road bridge.

Laura McLean of Primrose Bank, which overlooks one of the planned sites just off Broughty Ferry Road, described the turbines as “monsters” and said the idea to site them at the forefront of the city while efforts were being made to improve the waterfront was “ridiculous.”

“At a time when we are about to demolish Tayside House and hoping to attract the V&A, they come up with a plan to erect these wind turbines which will be a blot on the landscape forever,” Mrs McLean said.

The turbines, both of which are said to be around the same size as the two already at Michelin, are set to be sited a few hundred yards apart, one immediately in front of the roundabout at the foot of Strips of Craigie Road and the other behind the RGIT Survival unit, immediately west of Caledon East Wharf.

The company behind the project, Forth Energy—a joint venture between Forth Ports and Scottish & Southern Energy—has claimed Dundee could become a “powerhouse” of renewable energy if the turbines are given the go-ahead.

But Mrs Mclean says the giant structures are inappropriate for the city’s waterfront.

“They’re the first thing you’ll see when you come into the city from Broughty Ferry or over the water.

“They’re two and a half times the size of Tayside House which is being demolished because it is an ugly building.

“I think it’s ridiculous putting all this money into getting the V&A and even considering these things on the same waterfront.

“I’m not against renewable energy, far from it, but surely they could use the water, tidal energy, instead of these things. This plan is not for the benefit of Dundee, it’s to benefit Forth Ports and cut their electricity bills.

“The Tay is beautiful and these things are just monsters. Their visible impact is going to be the biggest thing and they’re planning to put them right in front of our windows.

“I pay a lot of money in council tax and I paid good money for my river views and this is going to take all that away.

“The people of Dundee don’t know anything about this and it’s unbelievable.

“I contacted Alex Dalton of Atmos Consulting in Edinburgh who just tried to patronise me with information on the benefits of renewable energy.

“I asked him if he would like these things put up in Princes Street in Edinburgh and he said ‘yes,’ I couldn’t believe it. The whole thing is unbelievable.”

Bob Adam of Lavender Street said one of the planned turbines will be situated directly in front of his living-room window and if it goes ahead it would be “a monstrosity.”

He said, “This is just another little nail in the coffin. If they get away with this they will ruin Dundee. It’s already been voted the worst place in Scotland to visit.

“As a Dundee man born and bred I’m distraught at what Dundee City Council is turning Dundee into.

“This will not be to make the area environmentally friendly, it’s to economically benefit Forth Ports.

“The existing turbines at Michelin are at least surrounded by industrial areas not houses.

“The mouth of the Tay could be absolutely beautiful but Forth Ports are almost a law unto themselves.”

Mr Adam is preparing to fight the proposition and plans to attend one of the public exhibitions which will take place on March 29 and 30 at Craigiebank Church Hall to make an informed complaint.

“I imagine there will be a lot of bad feeling about this,” he said.

“They will ruin a lovely view over the Tay.

“The planning department are useless. You go to places like Newcastle and the things they are putting around their waterfront are nice. But in Dundee they had one chance to do the waterfront well and they messed it up.”

The house of Mr Adam’s neighbours, Gordon and Wendy McQuillan, also looks straight over the planned site. Last night they said alternative methods of generating power should be looked into before planning permission is granted.

“We’ve got a great skyline here, these are not really things to put in the middle of a city,” Mr McQuillan said.

Mr McQuillan continued, “I am into renewable energy but they will dominate the whole landscape and when you come over the bridge they are going to be the first thing that catches your eye.”

He added, “It’s just a bit too much. From an aesthetic point for the city it is going to be an eyesore.

“I think they should investigate other alternatives rather than putting it right on the skyline because we have a beautiful cityscape.”

The couple expressed concern about more turbines being erected in the future, saying a precedent would then be set if planning permission is given.

Forth Energy’s managing director Calum Wilson said last night the turbines could make Dundee a major player in the renewable energy world.

He said, “Dundee has the potential to be a real powerhouse in renewables and if our plans go ahead the turbines could generate electricity equivalent to meeting the needs of up to 3800 homes.

“In developing this project we recognise the importance of working closely with local partners in Dundee and local communities.

“We hope that local people will take the opportunity to come along to the public exhibition to comment on our proposals and discuss their views with our team.

“The turbines will contribute to Dundee’s energy needs in the years ahead whilst also adding further generating capacity towards the Scottish Government’s target of 50% of Scotland’s electrical energy being supplied from renewable sources by 2020.”

The proposed turbines will have an electricity generating capacity of between 2MW and 2.5MW each, which they say will be put into the city’s main power grid.

The maximum height of the turbines would be 127m to the tip of the blade, making them a similar size to the 120m high ones situated at the Michelin factory near Claypotts.

A series of detailed studies are currently being undertaken in support of the planning application, which is due to be submitted to Dundee City Council early this summer.

The proposal for the two wind turbines in Dundee’s port is in addition to the existing renewable energy projects being undertaken by Forth Energy, including plans for four biomass plants at Dundee, Rosyth, Grangemouth and Leith.

A spokesman for Forth Energy said, “At this stage of the project we are keen to hear from local residents and stakeholders to get their views on our proposals.

“Forth Energy staff will be on hand at the forthcoming public exhibition to discuss the proposal with members of the public.”

Not sure what I think about this....on the one hand I`m all for renewable energy, I`m not too sure this is the correct place for it though. I also hadn`t realised they would be so big.

Rich B

March 23rd, 2010, 08:32 PM

I walked past a billboard today for the Tele which said 'Dundee Transport Museum Proposal', I bought the paper but nothing about it inside...has anyone else read anything about it?

adammccall

March 24th, 2010, 02:09 AM

Townie Tam

March 24th, 2010, 09:45 AM

.
I can't help thinking that Forth Ports think they're "on a roll".

The plans for their biomass power station in the dock area have been, generally, well received.

But...

How will two massive turbines within half a mile of the Victoria & Albert, Discovery and, possibly, Unicorn, appeal to tourists and visitors?
On the subject of Forth Ports... Why are only two cruise ships stopping at Dundee this year? Is there a deliberate plan, perhaps, to promote Dundee as an industrial area, rather than a potential tourist base?
I think the council should be wary of getting into bed with a company who appear to be looking on Leith as the tourist destination and Dundee as their industrial/environmental test bed...

Commenting in the Sunday Herald in 1999 about Dundee's geographical setting, Stephen Fry opined that it was,
"...about as ideal - ludicrously ideal - as any city setting could be".

Will two massive turbines sit comfortably in this "ludicrously ideal" setting?

Townie Tam

March 24th, 2010, 02:10 PM

.
And another thing...

127 metres is 417 feet. Will two structures 150 feet short of the Tap o' the La' really do anything for the "ludicrously ideal" setting?

Rich B

March 24th, 2010, 05:23 PM

Talking of wind turbines I noticed a real shit looking one has been placed by the discovery point which very visible on approach from riverside...it seems that every small positive step dundee makes, the council undoes it by agreeing to erect something which is ridiculous. I dispair:bash:

dufc1909

March 25th, 2010, 03:20 PM

I am generally in favour of wind farms, but only when sited in the proper place.

More and more sites are cropping up all over Europe, Holland seems to be embracing it. Amsterdam wishes to become a Wind turbine City. There are actual plans for a tourist wind turbine city off the Norwegian coast.

Let us not be mistaken that the reason forth ports wish to place two great muckle ugly money making devices down at the port is convenience and cost.

What are they powering? If Dundee requires power from turbines then why not site them out of the city.

Germany is at the forefront of wind technology, have been for years.
This is an interesting article on why wind power does nothing for carbon emmisions.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,606763,00.html

Also :

In December of last year, fragments of a broken rotor blade landed on a road shortly before rush hour traffic near the city of Trier.

- Two wind turbines caught fire near Osnabrück and in the Havelland region in January. The firefighters could only watch: Their ladders were not tall enough to reach the burning casings.

- The same month, a 70-meter (230-foot) tall wind turbine folded in half in Schleswig-Holstein--right next to a highway.

I had already voiced my opinion on the discovery turbine madness, could someone please post a photo, I would like to see what they have done.

Jaydot

March 25th, 2010, 05:05 PM

I walked past a billboard today for the Tele which said 'Dundee Transport Museum Proposal', I bought the paper but nothing about it inside...has anyone else read anything about it?

it's in todays Tele.....

http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/output/2010/03/25/story14766771t0.shtm

Rich B

March 25th, 2010, 08:20 PM

it's in todays Tele.....

http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/output/2010/03/25/story14766771t0.shtm

cheers, not quite like the zaha hadid museum of the clyde then unfortunately

Urban Life

March 25th, 2010, 08:58 PM

cheers, not quite like the zaha hadid museum of the clyde then unfortunately

No, but it's encouraging to see the society look to the potential of this buildling. I think it could work - the history of the building and the transport theme would tie in. However nothing might come of this plan.

It can only be a good sign - confidence in Dundee. It's a bit off the tourist trail but it would be another positive step forward for the city.

Does anyone agree?

Jaydot

March 26th, 2010, 12:41 AM

No, but it's encouraging to see the society look to the potential of this buildling. I think it could work - the history of the building and the transport theme would tie in. However nothing might come of this plan.

It can only be a good sign - confidence in Dundee. It's a bit off the tourist trail but it would be another positive step forward for the city.

Does anyone agree?

I agree, another place to take the kids locally can only be a good thing!

djmacdonald73

March 26th, 2010, 01:34 AM

No, but it's encouraging to see the society look to the potential of this buildling. I think it could work - the history of the building and the transport theme would tie in. However nothing might come of this plan.

It can only be a good sign - confidence in Dundee. It's a bit off the tourist trail but it would be another positive step forward for the city.

Does anyone agree?

Agree totally - apart from the mainstream tourists, the enthusiasts who would love to visit this type of museum will come from far and wide, so it`s another small boost for Dundees economy if it happens.

dufc1909

March 26th, 2010, 05:37 PM

Rich B

March 27th, 2010, 01:22 PM

Agree . . . great location to get to as well.

There`s a photo of the new turbine at discovery in tonights tully . . . . . :ohno:

Yet again there appears to be no figures on how much electricity it will actually produce, how many years to offset the cost of purchase, erection and maintenance etc: . . . . . . is all just a gimick ?
I do not look forward to the ones bound to crop up all over the town in the name of ECO & savings after all how can anyone object to a turbine for both uni`s mounted in the Hawhill . .

Agreed, but once Dundee Council has an idea that it likes it just cant stop repeating it no matter how inappropriate the idea may be. Once the town centre was pedestrianised they started getting excited by wrought iron street furniture an put it everywhere, then there was the fetish for flower boxes which are put everywhere in particular the city square to such an extent you can hardly see the fountains, then it was the turn of information signs, where the even the least interesting of spaces would be credited with a massive light blue sign. Then the Council decided it would be a good idea to put revolving advertisment boards everywhere encased in tombstones just to finish the obstacle course. Now it seems that Wind Turbines are their fetish of choice. Why are they soooo crap?

adammccall

April 2nd, 2010, 03:59 PM

Just looking at this weeks applications list.

Run 4 it, a chain of running gear shops has put in an application for signage at the vacant, now singular units under the Holiday Inn.

That's 2 unit's there now been prospectively filled. Run 4 it and Papa Johns.

Run 4 it:
http://www.run4it.com/

http://bwarrant.dundeecity.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=KZU59MGC06600&searchtype=WEEKLY

Papa Johns:
http://www.papajohns.co.uk/default.aspx

http://bwarrant.dundeecity.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?keyval=KNLP4LGC08200&searchtype=PROPERTY&module=P3

Infills:
http://bwarrant.dundeecity.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?keyval=KNJEW7GC06600&searchtype=PROPERTY&module=P3

adammccall

April 2nd, 2010, 07:15 PM

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4445901676_e347bd6e3e.jpg

About Died when I stumbled upon these entries for the V&A! Turns out they're not official!

Design the V&A Dundee Competition:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48160896@N05/sets/72157623454080771/

dufc1909

April 7th, 2010, 11:07 AM

I`ve heard Tescos have started to outfit their unit below the Gala casino. . .

What surprised me about the retail situation in Dundee a month or so ago was the 2 or 3 really depressing 2nd or even 3rd hand shops allowed to open up on Reform st and the corner of the Murraygate opposit the Wellgate shopping centre. Old couch in the window etc:

Why were they allowed to open up there ?

s.findlay

April 8th, 2010, 11:45 PM

I have to disagree with you on the topic of retail in the city. I feel the city has a hugely succesful and varied retail scene.

In the past few months you just have to have a look at the names that have came to the city, many shops that did not have a presense in the city before.
Wilkies (10th shop in Scotland, 1st for Dundee), Baguette Express (1st for the city), Topshop/Topman (Overgate), Run for it (6th store in Scotland, first in Dundee), Papa Johns (1st for Dundee), Viyella (1st for Dundee)
Also Next Home and Dunelm Mill both at Kingsway West retail park and both a 1st for the city. In the case of Next Home store only their second store in Scotland.

There are many others but these are just some of the stores that i think show the retail sector is still fairly healthyconsidering that we are in a recession.

derekall

April 12th, 2010, 12:12 AM

SeoulDee

April 12th, 2010, 06:44 AM

What you fail to mention is the proposed development of two gaint wind turbines 127m high which is a similar height to the London Eye and the Biomass factory withits 300ft chimney all planned for the Dundee Water Front.

And 127m tall wind turbines are a negative thing for what reason? You compare it in size to the London Eye which is a fantastic sight in London.

The biomass generator and the wind turbines are planned for Dundee Port, not the city centre waterfront area. It's a working, industrial port, it was never intended to be a tourist attraction. I can't see what the problem is with their location. People had all the same issues when they built the turbines at Michelin. It seems to be another case of people complaining about anything being built in their sightline of the river.

dufc1909

April 12th, 2010, 10:57 AM

Biomass plant at the docks will create more carbon gases than it will save.
Transport of the materials etc: up and down the river will ever increase as the energy company requires more profit . . and for what 30 - 50 full time jobs.
Great spounting cloud of steam over the town night and day.
What happens to Tay sailing club etc when a mass of wood pulp boats are moored on the river.
Someone earlier asked the question about cruise ships on the Tay, will they be replaced by scandanavian wood transporters. Will we still be able to advertise dolphin cruises on the tay ?

It is`nt the vista that we should try and protect but the clinging possibility that Dundee could finaly become a tourist destination in its own right and not just a Golf room for the night.

The port is so close to the town center that anything which goes on there can be viewed from a lot of locations.

Imagine the view from the Discovery down the docks with its giant turbines and billowing smoke. . . .

There is a small biomass plant on the outskirts of Perth, if you havent driven past it then do . . . .for a small operation it doesnt half chuck out the steam.

The wind turbines are not provinding energy for entrerprise or commerce in Dundee like Michelin but for forth Port profit and must be viewed in that context.

The letter in todays courier sums it up pretty well . . . .

No added value for Dundee citizens

Sir,—I’m sitting at work in Edinburgh as I read the article ‘Giant turbines plan for Dundee harbour’ article with growing disbelief.

The threat by Forth Energy to locate these on Dundee’s unique waterfront has to be exposed as the unacceptable face of private enterprise that it is.

Seeking maximum return for their shareholders at the expense of anyone or anything else may encourage an increase in the value of any imminent share bid but will hardly represent compelling value for the citizens of Dundee.

Forth Ports have loads of land on Edinburgh’s shoreline — can there be a compelling reason why there’s been no similar application here, I wonder?

SeoulDee

April 12th, 2010, 03:57 PM

Urban Life

April 12th, 2010, 07:28 PM

I think the important thing to think about on this topic is having a balance between industry at the port and the development of the city's central waterfront. One thing going against Dundee in this sense is the port's proximity to the city centre. Bigger harbour cities like Rotterdam etc can get away with turbines as the impact on the city isn't noticed as much. However I don't want the turbines to go up on the basis that it will ruin the skyline from the east of Dundee - Broughty Ferry and areas like Stannergate Grassy Beach path that are great areas for leisure and recreation. But I think that a healthy, busy port can only benefit Dundee and its economy.

I'd love to ask Forth Ports & other tourists boards why they can't promote Dundee as a cruise destination and realise the potential economic benefits the V&A could bring to Dundee. That might boost their coffers rather than these proposed turbines:ohno:

SeoulDee

April 13th, 2010, 10:10 AM

jeff_h

April 19th, 2010, 07:15 PM

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dufc1909

April 20th, 2010, 05:52 PM

This is good news . .

TOP BUSINESS LEADER TO HEAD UP V&A AT DUNDEE
The V&A at Dundee, the project to develop an international centre of 21st century design at the heart of Dundee's waterfront, has been boosted by the appointment of a leading business figure to chair its board.

Lesley Knox, Chairman of Alliance Trust plc, will also now chair the board of Design Dundee Ltd, the newly-formed company which has been established to drive the project forward.

She has chaired Alliance Trust plc since 2004 and has also held a number of senior executive and non-executive positions with other organisations. She was a Governor of the Museum of London for nine years, during which time the Museum carried out two major building projects.

"I am delighted to have become the Chair of Design Dundee Ltd," said Lesley Knox. "This scheme combines the excitement of a world class centre for design in Scotland with the creation of a landmark building on the Tay and will transform Dundee's waterfront."

The appointment has been welcomed by the Scottish Government, which has already expressed its firm support for the project.

Culture Minister Fiona Hyslop said, "The V&A at Dundee will boost the city's - and Scotland's - reputation as a thriving centre for the creative industries.

"The Scottish Government has put on record its strong support for this exciting project, so I am pleased to see key steps being taken to progress the project.

"It is vital that the V&A at Dundee is founded upon a robust business plan which maximises benefits for local communities, and with her background and experience Lesley Knox should be well-placed to lead the project as it seeks to develop this."

Professor Pete Downes, Principal and Vice Chancellor of the University of Dundee and chair of the steering group which has taken the V&A at Dundee to this stage, said, "I am delighted that we have attracted such a prominent business person to help bring this ambitious project to fruition.

"Lesley Knox has a wealth of experience that will be invaluable in helping us meet the many challenges that lie ahead. The project partners have done an excellent job in getting to this stage but this appointment will greatly strengthen the skills and know-how of the Board as we strive to deliver a project that will offer a major boost to Dundee and Scotland."

V&A at Dundee is an exciting, inspiring and dynamic project which will attract visitors from around the world, be a unique resource for the creative industries and re-position Dundee as a centre for international creative practice.

It will be based in a stunning new landmark building on Dundee's waterfront. An international design competition is underway to ensure that a building of the highest quality is created. The building will open in 2014 but will be preceded by an exciting programme of outreach activities in Dundee from 2011.

The founding members of Design Dundee Ltd are the Victoria and Albert Museum - the world's number one museum of art and design - and the University of Dundee, the University of Abertay Dundee, Dundee City Council and Scottish Enterprise.

Urban Life

April 21st, 2010, 07:08 PM

On the main 10o'clock news on BBC last night had a piece on Dundee's games industry and the Scotland's public sector in relation to the upcoming election. Thought I'd post this as it is good to see Dundee get some positive recognition nationally for once! :)

jeff_h

April 21st, 2010, 08:19 PM

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Rich B

April 23rd, 2010, 04:28 PM

http://www.dundeewaterfront.com/documents/220310.pdf

Looks like 6 architects have made it onto the shortlist with 1 in reserve!

So who are they then? Wonder when the short list will be announced!

jeff_h

April 28th, 2010, 08:59 PM

.....................................................................................................

Rich B

April 30th, 2010, 07:27 PM

Dundee drivers are about to be faced with more than a year of traffic chaos as work gets under way to remove and replace part of the Tay Road Bridge exit ramps.
Workmen will embark on the setting up process on Tuesday. The bad news for motorists is that major disruption is likely for the next 18 months — and it will be four-and-a-half years before things are back to normal.
The demolition part of the £6 million project kicks off with the westbound exit ramp, the route that takes Dundee-bound traffic from the bridge left towards the railway station, in July.

This ramp will be replaced with a more compact version and realigned to tie in initially with South Marketgait and eventually with the planned new southern boulevard.

Work starting on Tuesday will prepare the eastbound exit ramp to handle all northbound bridge traffic until the new westbound ramp is in place.

The eastbound exit ramp will have two-way traffic but Dundee City Council said that for the first two days, access from the west will be restricted at off peak times only and all off-peak traffic will have to use the ramp that provides access to the bridge from the east side.

A spokesman added, “During the first part of the contract, work has been specifically scheduled at off-peak times with no peak-time diversions.”

Once work is completed, there will only be one exit route of two lanes, heading westbound, where it will then become four lanes with traffic lights allowing drivers to choose east or west.

Realignment of the ramps is a key element of the central waterfront project, freeing up ground in the bridge landfall area for further development.

Tay Road Bridge joint board has promised everything possible will be done to minimise disruption.

Councillor Ken Guild, who chairs the Dundee waterfront project board, said, “The works have been carefully planned between Dundee City Council and the contractor to minimise disruption, but I would also call on drivers and bridge users to be patient, and take extra care.”

Northern Ireland contractor Farrans (Construction) Ltd will undertake the work. It has set up a telephone line, available 24 hours a day seven days a week, on 0800 330 8583, to deal with questions and issues.

dufc1909

May 10th, 2010, 02:25 PM

This is the site for the "proposed" energy plant.

Its a bit close to the shopping precinct . . . . if you ask me.

http://www.forthenergy.co.uk/pdf/Dundee%20Scoping%20Statement%20Addendum%20March%202010.pdf

djmacdonald73

May 11th, 2010, 04:58 PM

Broughty Ferry Development Trust is set to meet officials from Historic Scotland to discuss ambitious plans for a multi-purpose facility near Castle Green (By Graeme Bletcher).
The group will table proposals for the development of Broughty Castle as a tourist attraction, including a new-build centre to attract visitors — potentially housing a restaurant, cycle hire, shops and a marine research and education base.
Dundee City Council will also be represented at the meeting, on May 17, as the landlord for the site.

Trust chairman Andrew Nicoll said the project has been “moving forward” since the first public meeting was held at the Castle Green public hall earlier this year.

He added, “We have a meeting set up with Historic Scotland and Dundee City Council to discuss the use of the castle.

“We have been in touch with Historic Scotland to let them know about our plans, but this will be the first official meeting.

“A large section of the castle is unused and you can’t get into it.

“We want to see it opened up.

“The idea is to see a better use of the castle and a more joined-up approach to providing facilities there.”

The development is in the early planning stages and members of the trust are still investigating funding options, feasibility and potential sites.

Other items on the group’s agenda have also moved forward, with renovations for local tourist attraction Barometer Cottage set to be taken on by a private architect and the Fisherman’s Graveyard in line for new story boards and signage.

Mr Nicoll said, “The Fisherman’s Graveyard is a forgotten jewel in Broughty Ferry’s crown and a lot of people don’t even realise it is there.”

Can`t say I`ve ever heard of the Fishermens Graveyard OR Barometer Cottage! Good news about the castle though, it was looking pretty shabby last time I was in about a year ago.

Townie Tam

May 12th, 2010, 04:42 PM

.
http://www.monikie.org.uk/gem-bf-site-2.jpg

http://www.monikie.org.uk/bf-oldburialground.htm

TT

djmacdonald73

May 12th, 2010, 05:47 PM

Cheers :)

s.findlay

May 13th, 2010, 01:13 PM

Just a wee update of how the retail sector is holding up in the downturn (personally i feel that Dundee is doing fairly well compared to many othermedium sized townd as there are very few empty retail units in the city)

Kingsway West Retail Park - 17 out of 18 units occupied, the only empty unit is the old PC World unit due to thier merger with the Curry's store.

Gallagher Retail Park - All units full apart from the former Borders Store.

Wellgate Centre - Appears to be struggling to attract new tenants as the second floor especially on the right hand side is at best only 50% occupied. On a whole the Wellgate is probably about 75% occupied which isn't brilliant.

Murraygate - Seems to be holding up well with very few empty units on the street. Deichmann Shoes are opening a store in the MurrayGate however not sure where. Maybe only 2 empty units on the entire street.

Highstreet - Again similar to the MurrayGate with very high occupancy levels.

Overgate Centre - Once the huge new Topmna/Topshop opens i think there will only be 2 unoccupied units in the whole centre which is pretty good going in the current climate.

Also Run 4 It has just opened up underneth the Holiday Inn Express, Wilkies Womansware has opened up in the Cowgate and i've heard that Greggs is opening up in the former O'Brians unit in the Cowgate.

djmacdonald73

May 13th, 2010, 05:41 PM

Transport museum plan gets a boost

Dundee Civic Trust has thrown its weight behind plans for a transport museum in the city’s former Maryfield tram depot (By Bruce Robbins).
The trust’s Jack Searle said he believed the museum, a proposal being developed by the Taybus Vintage Vehicle Society, could have considerable benefits for the city.
The society is looking to acquire the old depot off Forfar Road from Scottish Water and restore and refurbish it to its former glory to become the Dundee Museum of Transport. A sizeable collection of vehicles of all sorts, charting the history of transport in the city, has already been identified by the society and would form the backbone of the museum’s exhibits.

Now, the civic trust, which aims to preserve and promote the urban heritage of the city, has said it backs the ambitious plan.

Mr Searle said the trust believed the project to be “really, really good”.

“There’s no real transport museum in Dundee at all. This is a voluntary group and they have absolutely the right building in the old tram depot,” he said. “It will require a lot of work before the project is brought together but, if they can get it going, it will be a real asset for the whole tourist structure.

“At some stage I am sure they will be making a lottery application for funding, and having community support is quite important.

“We’ve written to the society and said it’s something we’d like to get behind.

“We think it’s important both from the point of view of the vehicles and the tram building.”

One of the men behind the scheme is Jimmy McDonell, and he welcomed the trust’s support, saying, “It contributes to the momentum we have going for the museum.

“There’s a lot of work going on to progress it and we’re getting a lot of support. Constructive negotiations are continuing with Scottish Water, the owners of the tram building.

“An exhibition about the museum is planned for the Wellgate Library in October and we’ll also be at the Glamis vintage vehicle show in the summer. A lot of things have been happening and we’re all determined to achieve our goal of setting up the museum.

“Our website is www.dundeemuseumoftransport.co.uk.”

Dating back to the beginning of the last century, the tram depot just off Forfar Road is listed by Historic Scotland as a category B building. It has been vacant for 20 years and its condition is deteriorating.

Talks have been ongoing between the society and Scottish Water about renting or purchasing the building to make it a permanent home for the society’s collection of 35 vehicles, transport memorabilia and collectables.

The museum would also have a workshop to restore vehicles to their former glory, and jobs could be created as a result.

Townie Tam

May 15th, 2010, 02:42 PM

.
That link above is corrupted. Here is the correct version:-

http://www.dundeemuseumoftransport.co.uk/

8=)

dufc1909

May 19th, 2010, 05:22 PM

This month could be a very good month for Dundee.

Just announced is the BBC Proms coming from the Caird hall . .

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/tayside_and_central/8691582.stm

Also tommorow should see the announcement of the Inteligent community winner for 2010. Hopefully its Dundee.

At the end of the month we should also know the 6 remaining architechs and hopefully see the designs.

Was in Dundee weekend past . . . . love the changes that are happening.

Suwon, Korea Named Intelligent Community of the Year 2010. . . . . . . .

Townie Tam

May 24th, 2010, 07:20 PM

.
Found this on YouTube:-

"This is Part 1 of 5 of a movie that was created from an Apple Keynote presentation on the Central Waterfront redevelopment, at the June 2009 meeting of the Dundee City Centre & Harbour Community Council. The movie features issues of concern, the results of the public consultation that the CC carried out in September 2008 and a comparison of these results with the results of Dundee City Council's public consultation on proposals for the redevelopment of the Central Waterfront area that was carried out in 2000, resulting in a "Masterplan" being produced."

Dundee Central Waterfront - Matters of Concern Part 1 (7:20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUvAa-1B43w

Dundee Central Waterfront - Matters of Concern Part 2 (8:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQbEZiMD38k

Dundee Central Waterfront - Matters of Concern Part 3 (8:50)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mtOUlFl__o

Dundee Central Waterfront - Matters of Concern Part 4 (8:40)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp8vX23t88k

Dundee Central Waterfront - Matters of Concern Part 5 (8:46)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUhce4bJbQo

Interesting stuff...

Townie Tam

May 24th, 2010, 07:26 PM

.
Putting "Dundee Waterfront" into YouTube's search bar turns up some more interesting stuff.

SeoulDee

May 25th, 2010, 12:40 PM

Suwon, Korea Named Intelligent Community of the Year 2010. . . . . . . .

Lived in Suwon for a year in 2008. It's a small city by Korean and Asian standards. Population of about a million, but geographically, probably about the same size as Dundee. It is the founding city of the Samsung conglomerate, which comprises electronics, property, cars, finance, retail and engineering among many other divisions. Not surprised that they won it at all, when you consider that everyone has super fast broadband. They were watching live TV on their phones whilst deep underground in subway trains back in 2007/08. I remember a cheer going up on the subway when Korea won a medal at the Beijing olympics. Everyone was watching live on their phones.

Gangnam district in Seoul won the competition a year or two back, which is on a different scale to Suwon or Dundee and is a huge business district in Seoul.

The Koreans do technology on a different scale. I know Dundee does well with the computer games, but indeed so do the Koreans. They are fanatical about their gaming and had at least two TV channels dedicated to showing live tournament computer game competition back in 2008.

Suwon is a fantastic city, and Korea a fantastic country. Well done to them for winning it. Dundee need to look to places like Suwon and Gangnam and match them. Hopefully that's what the various developments planned for the city will achieve in the not too distant future.

alonzo-ny

May 26th, 2010, 10:20 PM

Dundee can't compete with a city of one million. It is absurd.

dufc1909

May 27th, 2010, 11:12 AM

Design shortlist announced.

http://www.dundee.com/news/va-dundee-design-shortlist-announced.html

SeoulDee

May 27th, 2010, 12:48 PM

Dundee can't compete with a city of one million. It is absurd.

Asian cities of one million are nothing like European cities of a million though. China has over 60 cities of over a million, but most of them have nothing going for them, and certainly far less facilities than a city like Dundee.

Asian and European cities are simply not comparable on population. An Asian city of a million might well have far less going on than a European city of 50,000 or a 100,000. Population often means nothing to Asian cities.

gweilo

May 27th, 2010, 02:26 PM

And what a supermodernist shortlist for the V&A it is too...!

Delugan Meissel Associated Architects
Kengo Kuma/Cre8architecture
REX/Urban Splash
Snohetta/Gareth Hoskins
Steven Holl/JM Architects
Sutherland Hussey/3DReid Architects

A very exciting list then. Who said the age of the Iconic building is over?! The future is definitely still arriving in Dundee....

And (I'm going all weak at the knees...) we're being graced by the presence of the ubermensch Joshua Prince-Ramus. Wasn't he the guy that Ayn Rand modeled Howard Roark on?

let forever be

May 27th, 2010, 03:31 PM

I'm extremely excited to see what Snohetta come up with. Their recent work has been outstanding.

let forever be

May 27th, 2010, 03:34 PM

Asian cities of one million are nothing like European cities of a million though. China has over 60 cities of over a million, but most of them have nothing going for them, and certainly far less facilities than a city like Dundee.

Asian and European cities are simply not comparable on population. An Asian city of a million might well have far less going on than a European city of 50,000 or a 100,000. Population often means nothing to Asian cities.

Very true.

A city of a million in China is relatively small. Whereas a city of 200,000 in Scotland is relatively large. As with anything, the cities 'success' is not down to outright size but rather the actual functioning of the city and this relies on again, the relative merits of the city, population, resources etc in regards to the country at large.

jeff_h

May 27th, 2010, 06:49 PM

.....................................................................................................................

M_Riaz

May 27th, 2010, 06:51 PM

e-architect (http://*************************/dundee/v_a_dundee.htm)

V&A at Dundee - Shortlist News

A shortlist of architect and design teams competing for the V&A at Dundee project is announced today (Thursday May 27th) and includes bidders from around the world.

Companies from Vienna, Tokyo, New York, Oslo, and Edinburgh form the shortlist, which contains some of the most exciting names in world architecture and design.

The six shortlisted companies are:

Delugan Meissl Associated Architects (Vienna)
Kengo Kuma & Associates (Tokyo)
REX (New York)
Snøhetta (Oslo)
Steven Holl Architects (New York)
Sutherland Hussey Architects (Edinburgh)

Lesley Knox, Chair of Design Dundee Ltd, the company which has been established to drive the V&A at Dundee project forward, headed the jury panel which decided on the shortlist

maccoinnich

May 27th, 2010, 07:19 PM

Impressive list!

dufc1909

May 27th, 2010, 08:57 PM

Impresive list of architects . . . . . my only concern is . .

There isn`t much faith in Dundee that mike galloway is the right person to lead & deliver.

He is not held in a high regard by people who have witnesed his previous phuckups.

Townie Tam

May 27th, 2010, 10:48 PM

.
OK, let's come back down to realities.

Les Banks, the planning officer overseeing the Central Waterfront project, gave a presentation to the City Centre & Harbour Community last week (Thursday).

He confirmed that the V&A will be built, either on landfill or on a pier (which would cause no problems with the flow of the river), to the south of Craig Pier/Discovery Quay.

Here's graphic from Abertay Uni's web site (enlarged), showing the location of the V&A.
(I couldn't find a graphic on the waterfront.com site which showed the proposed location of the V&A. Strange, eh?)

http://freespace.virgin.net/b.massie/2010/V&A%20380.jpg

It was pointed out to Les that the V&A, potentially the most important building of the Central waterfront, would not be visible from the large civic space; it would only be (partially) visible down Union Street.
Les was asked if, because of the V&A's location, the plan to have that large hotel building to the right (east) of Discovery Quay would be scrapped. It seems that that particular site is still earmarked for a hotel...

I am not an architect. I am not a civil engineer. I am a Dundonian who is passionate about my home town. Call me a pleb if you will but I think that if you're going to provide a site for what is hoped to be an "iconic" building, then you should be making that building as visible as possible.

Personally, I think there's a lack of "thinking outside the box" about the Central Waterfront. Whilst I'm on the topic of last Thursday's presentation, I'm going to copy/paste content from a post on the Dundee Forum at:-

http://www.dundeeforum.co.uk/ubbthreads.php/topics/27700/Oor_Sheena_resigns_what_a_nati.html#Post27700

In our Waterfront Presentation in June last year, we drew attention to the illogicality of cars from Fife being able to cross the road bridge and drive straight into the Gellatly Street car park BUT the return journey involved either

a) driving up Gellatly Street, down the Seagate to the East Port Roundabout, down Allan street, then a right turn along South Marketgait to get on to the bridge, or
b) down Gellatly Street, turn right into Dock Street, turn right into Allan Street, round the East Port Roundabout, back down Allan Street, right turn into South Marketgait, then on to the bridge.

Last night, we had Les Banks, the council officer overseeing the Central Waterfront Redevelopment, giving us an update on things, so I asked him,
"A couple from Fife want to spend a couple of hours shopping in Dundee. How do they get to the Gellatly Street car park, and how do they get back on to the bridge?"

On the projector screen, he showed us the easy route, straight off the bridge and into Gellatly Street. When he started to show the return route of up Gellatly Street, down the Seagate, etc, there were gasps of disbelief from the audience.

See:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b_u37Zsl-U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Aln7MvPig

If you've any real interest in how the Central Waterfront is going to turn out by 2031, you should really watch the video mentioned in my post on Page 44. Part 1 of the video can be found at:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUvAa-1B43w

Is Dundee correcting the errors of the past - or compounding them?

jeff_h

May 27th, 2010, 11:05 PM

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

dundeepodcast

May 28th, 2010, 12:55 AM

After searching for Dundee related You Tube videos I also came across the videos mentioned in this thread and decided to start a page on my website. The reason for this was a little edit I took from the first video on this page from You Tube http://dundeecommunitypodcast.webs.com/dundeewaterfront.htm and a piece that was in the video mentioned in a post on page 44. This was the resultant edit which I believe is very deceiving to the public of Dundee because it goes against the aims of the Waterfront Project as well as Galloway's comment being contradictory http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aijlUls9EZs One thing is I would like to see future generations in Dundee left with a fantastic waterfront but in my opinion the councillors are not asking enough questions regarding the project and the civil servants are getting the nod on their own say so. The CC&HCC make really valid points about the project and seem to be getting the usual spin that happens with these projects towards the public.

Townie Tam

May 28th, 2010, 01:07 AM

Hi jeff.h.

You typed,

All I'll say is I hate roundabouts or "circles" the East and West Port ones are like craters!!! I don't see the big issue with getting back onto the bridge you have to do exactly the same thing just now so it is no better or no worse. The traffic has to go somewhere!

Are you really saying that the Central Waterfront redevelopment is NOT an opportunity to correct this idiotic traffic system we have in the city centre?

Please explain to me why traffic coming down Perth road, heading for Fife, cannot turn right at the Deep Sea to head for the bridge but is forced to turn left up to the the West Port Roundabout, negotiate that, then come back down Marketgait through the junction they were at three or five minutes ago (depending on when they hit the traffic lights) instead of a simple right turn? Bearing in mind that when traffic from Perth Road has a green light, Nethergate, and northbound and southbound Marketgait have red lights...

Can you explain why traffic coming down Gellatly Street or Commercial cannot head for the west, like Riverside Drive or Perth Road, without travelling all the way round to the East Port Roundabout and back again?

Perhaps you could also explain why, since the ramp work commenced, there are cones taking up just enough of the exit lane for Commercial Street from the (slightly) mini roundabout under the bridge, so that vehicles heading for Commercial Street have to stay in the left hand lane heading for the Arnold Clark junction, instead of using the filter lane - considering that there is NOTHING happening between the cones and the verge?

I'll give you another quote from the Dundee Forum thread I mentioned above:-

I know, from speaking to police officers who have attended our meetings, that they regard the city centre traffic system as a joke. Unfortunately, they are not allowed to express an opinion, that could be construed as 'political', in public.

From what are you saying, the occupational residents of Tayside House have adopted the attitude of "Abdee's oot a step 'cept oor Jock", Jock being the entity formerly known as "Planning & Transportation".

When I read that as an incomer to Dundee you regretted the demolition of the Royal Arch, I thought, "There's a guy to watch - he could be good for the toon." From your comments above, it would appear that you've become "housetrained".

Sad, really... You showed such promise.

RapidTaco

May 28th, 2010, 03:16 PM

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/scots-in-running-to-design-47m-dundee-museum-1.1030968

Rich B

May 28th, 2010, 07:05 PM

My hope was that the V and A could bring some order and presence to this masterplan, but with it being situated by the discovery, will not even be in view from the new 'footie pitch'. Whilst I can understand the reasons for its location (ie. so it wont be floating in no man's land when it is opened) I fear that the remainder of the waterfront will now be the business park we have been threatened with.

Townie Tam

May 29th, 2010, 10:33 AM

.
Hi jeff_h.

I wonder why,

All I'll say is I hate roundabouts or "circles" the East and West Port ones are like craters!!! I don't see the big issue with getting back onto the bridge you have to do exactly the same thing just now so it is no better or no worse. The traffic has to go somewhere!

was removed from "May 27th, 2010, 10:05 PM...........#887" further up the page? In fact, you seem to have gone through this thread, last night, deleting many of your posts' contents, right back to page 1...

Townie Tam

May 29th, 2010, 12:47 PM

.
I've just uploaded to YouTube, another short clip (1 minute 30) as a taster to the 5 parts I gave the links for in my post on page 44. The the new clip, which describes pedestrian "facilities", can be seen at:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wK-r2dP0Mc

This shows how Dock Street will be. The first graphic is looking east (towards Commercial Street) from around the back of Gilfillan Church; the pub formerly known as the Galleon, Flares, Waterfront, etc, would be just out of sight off the left hand side of the graphic.
The second graphic is looking down Castle Street and slightly west over what used to be the bus stops in Shore Terrace, so the traffic is passing along Dock Street at the foot of Castle Street.

djmacdonald73

May 31st, 2010, 04:37 PM

Several Scottish railway stations are to be given a new lease of life through a special funding programme.

The five sites have secured money from the Station Community Regeneration Fund.

The £1m pot is designed to help create new businesses and premises.

Dundee, Kilmarnock, Cupar, Dumbarton Central and Kinghorn stations will all receive money for projects including shops and arts facilities.

Transport Minister Stewart Stevenson said: "By re-investing in the station environment and bringing redundant buildings back to life, we are opening up new employment opportunities, while communities benefit through the creation of new local facilities.

"These five projects are ideal examples of the type of investment we can offer as we re-open the scheme to the next round of applications."

Underpin commitment

Steve Montgomery, managing director of ScotRail, added: "We welcome these successful applications which open up new possibilities across Scotland and underpin our commitment to put stations at the heart of communities."

Dundee railway station received the largest award of £59,500, which will go towards setting up a new arts headquarters.

Kilmarnock station has been awarded £40,000 to develop a charity shop, while Cupar station was given £37,000 for a heritage centre.

Dumbarton Central station received £24,000 towards the the cost of a new cafe and Kinghorn station in Burntisland is to receive £7,500 for an artists' studio.

The next round of applications for funding will close in October this year.

I`m please at this news obviously, but kind of intrigued as to why the train station needs a "new arts headquarters"??

dufc1909

June 2nd, 2010, 11:18 AM

The money for the "Community arts facility" has come from Transport Scotland.

Transport Scotland and First ScotRail have launched a £1 million Scotland-wide scheme to make use of disused railway station buildings. The Stations Community Regeneration Fund (SCRF) flows from the decision in April 2008 to extend the ScotRail franchise contract.

Aim

This scheme aims to make use of disused station buildings as either:

a business meeting passenger or community needs
a community project which contributes to the local community.
The SCRF will create conditions where passengers will benefit from improved facilities at stations, redundant buildings will be brought back into use, and new opportunities for job creation and community involvement will be opened up.

What is the fund for?

The fund can be used in two ways:

to carry out structural repairs to buildings not covered under the Network Rail / Train Operating Company lease agreement
to meet up to 50% of fit-out costs of the building for its intended use.

Current applications

Current applications Station Proposal
Aberdour Café and community/education facility
Arbroath Community hub
Brora Citizens Advice Bureau
Cupar Heritage Centre
Dumbarton Central Café/takeaway food outlet
Dundee Community/arts facility
Fort Matilda Model railway club
Fort Matilda Cultural hub, gallery/museum

"The SCRF will create conditions where passengers will benefit from improved facilities at stations"

What about somewhere warm to sit and reasonable toilet facilities at Dundee?

dufc1909

June 2nd, 2010, 01:04 PM

When viewing the planning applications I came across this from a couple of weeks ago;

Land South Of Riverside Avenue Dundee:
Erection of 102 Bedroom Hotel with restaurant and formation of associated car parking and landscaping.

Anyone know anything about it ?

dufc1909

June 2nd, 2010, 01:30 PM

March 2007 an application for the De Haviland hotel was refused.

Ward Riverside Proposal
Erection of 60 bed hotel with restaurant and formation of car park
Address
Land South of Riverside Avenue
Riverside Avenue
Dundee
Applicant
Hanna and Strachan Ltd
69 St Vincent Street
Glasgow
G2 5TF
Agent
AIM Architecture Interiors Media
Castle Chambers
26 Castle Street
Dundee DD1 3AF
Registered 23 Nov 2006

http://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/reports/plan_apps/06-01086-FUL.pdf

Now we have:

Application Ref: 10/00332/FULL - Full Application Local

Applicant Name Hanna & Strachan Ltd
Agent Name & Address AIM Architecture Interiors Media
Unit 5, City Quay
Camperdown Street
Dundee
DD1 3JA
Proposal Site Location: Land South Of, Riverside Avenue, Dundee,
Description of Proposal Erection of 102 Bedroom Hotel with restaurant and formation of associated car parking and landscaping
Date Validated 20.05.10

Interesting ! !

Urban Life

June 2nd, 2010, 07:34 PM

It's good to see that the proposed Riverside Avenue hotel is back on the agenda- would help to develop the area near the airport.

Regarding the money pot available to the railway station, the term 'sticking plaster' comes to mind :ohno: It said in the Tele tonight that the artwork will not be seen by the public as well! Can't they realise that station will stick out like a sore thumb once the redevelopment in that part of the Waterfront is complete. Does anyone think the station will receive the much needed money it needs?

On another topic I noticed some diggers & cement silos down at the site of the proposed hotel on West Marketgait behind Grochos. I don't know if it is unrelated works but it will have to wait and see.

Dundonian

June 3rd, 2010, 02:50 PM

All,

I first started reading this thread over two years ago and have been an avid follower since. However, i have only just registered now so i can post a comment.

I liked the fact the thread started and obviously a great deal of time and effort was put into it to showcase all that was good in Dundee and the exciting up and coming Projects. Even if most were hearsay and never took off. I used to enjoy looking for thread updates.

It seems to me to slant of this thread has changed for the worse over the last few weeks and I feel saddened by the fact that some people have taken it on themselves to slate the efforts of people who are trying to make a difference to our City.

We know the town planning ‘wrongs’ that have happened in the city before.
We know the Traffic management around the town could be better.
We know the proposed plans for the future of Dundee are not going to satisfy every person on the planet.

Too many people are happy to point out what is ‘wrong’ with our city, but very rarely take it upon themselves to identify and implement a solution.

Stop being part of the problem people and become part of the solution people!

Instead of highlighting the problems and 'nit picking' on people who have a genuine interest in bettering our city, i would like to see the thread get back to being positive about Dundee and suggest improvements.

Jaydot

June 3rd, 2010, 05:54 PM

All,

Too many people are happy to point out what is ‘wrong’ with our city, but very rarely take it upon themselves to identify and implement a solution.

Stop being part of the problem people and become part of the solution people!

Instead of highlighting the problems and 'nit picking' on people who have a genuine interest in bettering our city, i would like to see the thread get back to being positive about Dundee and suggest improvements.

Totally agree with you, just what I was thinking!!!

Urban Life

June 3rd, 2010, 06:38 PM

Here, here. I think the more we show what great developments are going on in the city, the more people will sit up and take notice. I for one feel immensely upbeat about the city and this thread is the perfect way to inform people of the developments.

I will try to take some some photos of the developments ongoing at the moment and post on the thread soon to show the recent progress. There hasn't been any for a while and it's worthwhile posting them on the thread.

Larger Development Update:

: Dundee House is progressing well, with it nearly reaching it's full height - bulks up the skyline:cheers:

: Abertay Opal 1 Uni Flats Parker St- Reached the full height a while back, still a little bit of cladding to finish, just the internal fit-out etc to go until completion in Sept.

Johnny boy

June 4th, 2010, 03:19 AM

Okay ill say it. Jeff h. If you still read this thread please continue to post. I don't get back to Dundee enough and really enjoyed reading your posts and opinions. The pettiness and pointscoring from a poster should not deter you from putting your points across.

The Duke

June 4th, 2010, 08:14 AM

Johnny Boy

I will second that. Jeff_h's posts of the projects under construction and those in the pipeline have been extremely informative. Although not a native of Dundee, I love living here. It is a very livable city and I see great things for it's future.

Come back Jeff!

Townie Tam

June 5th, 2010, 10:04 AM

.
I, too, have appreciated jeff_h's input. His posts have, generally, contained more info and graphics passing through City House than have appeared in the local press. Hopefully, "Dundonian" will be able to carry on the good work from where "jeff_h" left off... 8=)

But... is it really the opinion of contributors to this thread that any faults should be ignored, illogicalities should be accepted and we should be grateful for everything? Is the general opinion that any debate should be stifled? That the pros and cons should only feature the pros? If anything is questioned, the dummy should be spat out of the pram?
Should dufc1909, Rich B, dundeepodcast and I remove ourselves from this thread because we don't all sing from the Mike Galloway hymn book?

We know the town planning ‘wrongs’ that have happened in the city before.
We know the Traffic management around the town could be better.
We know the proposed plans for the future of Dundee are not going to satisfy every person on the planet.

So, we should accept these and hold our tongues? This thread is entitled "Developments at Dundee Waterfront"; no indication that it should only feature "good" developments. I would have thought this was an ideal platform to debate the benefits, or otherwise, of proposed developments.

I'm going to (again) quote from a couple of threads on the Dundee Forum. Here are the url's:-

http://www.dundeeforum.co.uk/ubbthreads.php/topics/27855/Huge_demand_for_Dundee_council.html#Post27855

http://www.dundeeforum.co.uk/ubbthreads.php/topics/27700/Oor_Sheena_resigns_what_a_nati.html#Post27700

Within the council, there seems to be a belief that,
a) If a proposal comes from a council official, it must be the way to go
and
b) If a proposal comes from a member of the public, there must be something wrong with it.

Jill Darling, the former Chair of the CC&HCC, suggested, at least three years ago, that there were next to no play facilities in the city centre for young kids, specially with the closure of the wee play park opposite the pet shop in Dock Street to make way for a building supplies yard.

She suggested informal "stop & play" facilities should be sited through the city centre for parents to have a seat while kids amused themselves. Simple facilities; the dragon in the High Street is always suggested as an example: nothing formal, involving extensive surveys, feasibility studies, consultations or other means of council prevarication.

Three years ago...

And from the second thread at Dundee Forum -

At our meeting on Thursday, Gregor Hamilton of the City Development Department talked about 'stop and play' facilities. As you know, our idea is for small, informal areas in the City Centre, where kids can play for a wee while while parents have a seat and a blether or whatever.
It looks like the council haven't grasped this simple concept and are in the throes of feasibility studies, consultations, etc, revolving round formal play parks.

I pointed out, once again, that what we are proposing is INFORMAL play facilities, like, for example, the dragon in High Street. Off the top of my head I suggested that something as simple as a pile of boulders dumped, for example, beside the models of Wishart Arch, Royal Arch and Cox's Stack outside Boots would cost next to nothing, could be sourced from Tayside Contracts own quarry (Collace Quarry) and could be in place within a fortnight. The only 'health & safety' concern would be to make sure that the boulders can't wobble to trap little fingers.

http://www.ohiovalleystone.com/Product%20shots/Reg%20%20Gray%20Gorge/Gray%20Gorge%20Boulders.jpg

What could be more simple? Would young kids climb all over it and use their imagination or would they ignore it?

I'll make a prediction:
when the Central Waterfront road layout is completed and buildings start to go up, there will be people in Dundee complaining about all manner of things associated with it. Some will be justified, some not. By that time, it will be too late. Believe it or not, there is a great body of opinion in the toon which thinks the plans for the Central Waterfront redevelopment are still just proposals.

WRONG!

The proposals were all adopted as policy by the council in 2001. All that has been happening since is that planners, with too much time on their hands, have been (and still are!) tinkering with the original policy decisions, tinkering which is nodded through by councillors who don't really understand what they're approving. The infrastructure work has been carrying on regardless, like the strengthening of the Dock Street tunnel (completed) and the road bridge ramp realignment work which has recently started.

The problem in Dundee (like many other cities, probably) is that most people have no interest in a topic till things go wrong, then they're all up on the soapboxes crying "FOUL!".

I'm on my soapbox NOW but most people show no interest in what is being done in their name at the waterfront. Maybe we should pay attention to Danny Kaye...

"Well, isn't it oh! Isn't it rich! Look at the charm of every stitch!
The suit of clothes is all together
But all together it's all together
The most remarkable suit of clothes that I have ever seen.
These eyes of mine at once determined
The sleeves are velvet, the cape is ermine
The hose are blue and the doublet is a lovely shade of green.
Summon the court to convene."

dundeepodcast

June 5th, 2010, 01:16 PM

It seems to me that a few planning or architect professionals or people interested in the subject of Dundee Waterfront don't like members of the public having a difference of opinion about certain aspects of the project. One thing I have been considering doing is opening up a poll on our website because as a community website for the whole city of Dundee For he People By The People, we are all concerned about certain aspects of a few of the proposals. Being someone who has worked in community media I think the wider Dundee public have every right to criticise certain aspects if it impacts on them, their children or their children's children.

I've seen or heard this subject discussed by members of the public on forums, social networking sites or from other people that I know. One thing which really sticks out with me is that many Dundonians are unhappy with the idea of a business district, every consultation has put this at the bottom of the list yet Mike Galloway and others have thrust the whole idea through the media. What the public of Dundee want is something they can use and enjoy not just a little green square for office workers to sit on on a hot summers day. There are many offices sitting empty in Dundee aleady if it becomes a business district then many buildings will be white elephants. One thing our website has tried to give a view from both sides which doesn't seem to be liked here.

I'm all for the V&A being in Dundee at the Waterfront plus many other attractions for city as well as some housing which the public can afford not flats that will cost nearly one million pounds but affordable public, association or private housing which the city is badly lacking in due to demolition programmes from which I and many others have experienced to be put in inadequate housing where you can hear every little thing in a neighbours house. From what I see there are only a few councillors actually trying to make a difference in Dundee the rest are not questioning things especially the Waterfront Project which seems to me like Townie Tam has said in not so many words that the civil servants and planners are running the show with a nod and a wink from the councillors.

If it was a legal requirement to fill in a doorstep poll in every household across the City of Dundee, like filling in an electoral registration for example, things would be different. If the public were given the full facts in the survey then I think people here would see that the people of Dundee who don't normally get on their soapbox would come out as a very large percentage of not wanting to see some aspects, how I wish we had more outspoken people like in Dundee's history who fought for the rights of the people and workers like Mary Brooksbank.

SeoulDee

June 5th, 2010, 01:44 PM

One thing which really sticks out with me is that many Dundonians are unhappy with the idea of a business district, every consultation has put this at the bottom of the list yet Mike Galloway and others have thrust the whole idea through the media. What the public of Dundee want is something they can use and enjoy not just a little green square for office workers to sit on on a hot summers day. There are many offices sitting empty in Dundee aleady if it becomes a business district then many buildings will be white elephants. One thing our website has tried to give a view from both sides which doesn't seem to be liked here.

There are not many good quality office buildings sitting empty in Dundee city centre. That's why Alliance Trust built their own new building, Realtime Worlds occupied a new office building, the SPSA took one of the Dundee One buildings, and Dundee City Council are developing a new office building. These are some of the biggest employers in the city centre. Companies want new, high quality office buildings, not 1970's style concrete blocks or converted tenement buildings. I would argue that the uptake in new office accomodation in Dundee city centre has been very healthy. Likewise with the smaller office units at City Quay. I would say this justifies more office developments in the city centre. A constant supply of good quality, city centre office accomodation will encourage companies to be based in central Dundee.

The waterfront development has always been about reconnecting the city to the river to create jobs. Creating jobs was the reason it got government funding above anything else. It's about extending the city centre to the river, therefore of course it will be a business district. It's an extension of the CBD of Dundee. The whole city centre is predominantly a business district.

The key to making the waterfront a success will be ensure buildings are developed of mixed use. A city centre style layout with shops, restaurants, bars etc on the lower floors and offices and residential on higher floors. That's how traditional city centres work the world over. If they develop buildings for only one purpose it will end up looking like a business park. That's the mistake they have already made in the past few years with the office buildings that have gone up around the South Marketgait and Riverside.

Townie Tam

June 5th, 2010, 03:49 PM

.
Hi SeoulDee.

Realtime Worlds' web site is still showing their address as:-

Realtime Worlds, Ltd.
152 West Marketgait
Dundee
DD1 1NJ

http://www.realtimeworlds.com/wp-content/themes/rtw-1.0/img/hdr-company.jpg

This building is a former Jute Mill, the ground floor of which housed the Angus Garage; the middle floor and top floor were used by Abertay Uni (in a former life) as the Students' Union on the top floor (Bowlin' Alley) and to house jute mill machinery for their jute engineering courses on the middle floor.

BTW: Dundonian remarked on the previous page,

Too many people are happy to point out what is ‘wrong’ with our city, but very rarely take it upon themselves to identify and implement a solution.

That's what's known as 'throwing the gauntlet down'.

Fair point. Watch this thread...

8=)

Rich B

June 5th, 2010, 08:22 PM

There are not many good quality office buildings sitting empty in Dundee city centre. That's why Alliance Trust built their own new building, Realtime Worlds occupied a new office building, the SPSA took one of the Dundee One buildings, and Dundee City Council are developing a new office building. These are some of the biggest employers in the city centre. Companies want new, high quality office buildings, not 1970's style concrete blocks or converted tenement buildings. I would argue that the uptake in new office accomodation in Dundee city centre has been very healthy. Likewise with the smaller office units at City Quay. I would say this justifies more office developments in the city centre. A constant supply of good quality, city centre office accomodation will encourage companies to be based in central Dundee.

The waterfront development has always been about reconnecting the city to the river to create jobs. Creating jobs was the reason it got government funding above anything else. It's about extending the city centre to the river, therefore of course it will be a business district. It's an extension of the CBD of Dundee. The whole city centre is predominantly a business district.

The key to making the waterfront a success will be ensure buildings are developed of mixed use. A city centre style layout with shops, restaurants, bars etc on the lower floors and offices and residential on higher floors. That's how traditional city centres work the world over. If they develop buildings for only one purpose it will end up looking like a business park. That's the mistake they have already made in the past few years with the office buildings that have gone up around the South Marketgait and Riverside.

I agree with the above. If the new buildings at the Waterfront are not going to be primarily offices and residential then what what would go in them? Whilst it would be nice if there were to be a few more public buildings amongst the new blocks, it is perhaps unreasonable to expect any more high profile organisations to come to the city in the short term after the capture of the V and A.

If handled sensitively, and with the ground floor space being dedicated to retail, leisure, restaurants etc the Waterfront could be a success. There is a grave danger however that if poor quality developments are given planning permission with little mixed use aspect to them, that the Waterfront could be a real dead area.

The new city blocks shown on the master plan are very big and even with a much larger city with a stronger economy than Dundee, it would take a long time to fill these sites with quality developments. So what does the council do, wait the realistic 50 - 100 years for these blocks to be broken down into smaller sites (within the new blocks) in which would be in keeping with the city and patiently allow them to be filled with quality developments over time or give entire city blocks over to developers who want to make a quick buck. Dundee is not Edinburgh or Glasgow, and will not attract the headquarters of RBS or HBOS to fill entire city blocks with quality buildings on a large scale. Cheap large scale homogeneous developments, striding down from Dock Street to the Water could be horrific.

How the new city blocks are divided and managed by DCC is vital. If they are patient and willing to allow future generations to oversee the future completion of the development, then there is no reason why it cant be a success.

SeoulDee

June 6th, 2010, 06:37 AM

Hi SeoulDee.

Realtime Worlds' web site is still showing their address as:-

Realtime Worlds, Ltd.
152 West Marketgait
Dundee
DD1 1NJ

This building is a former Jute Mill, the ground floor of which housed the Angus Garage; the middle floor and top floor were used by Abertay Uni (in a former life) as the Students' Union on the top floor (Bowlin' Alley) and to house jute mill machinery for their jute engineering courses on the middle floor.

I know where they are. I spent many days eating and drinking in the union in that very building. Yes, it's a conversion from it's previous use, but still a large new office development in the city centre that was quickly occupied. I think Realtime Worlds were in the Tech Park before moving to the Marketgait. More companies relocating to the city centre help to make the place more vibrant, encouraging people to eat, drink and shop after work rather than driving in and out of a soulless office park in the suburbs.

As far as i'm aware, the only quality office buildings availble in central Dundee are one of the Dundee One buildings, and the Vision building. The Vision building is very unusual and is being marketed specifically for Digital Media companies, so that won't be easy to fill. I've not been in Dundee for about a year, so I'm not sure if there is anybody in it at all? I'm sure the other Dundee One building will find a tenant before too long.

Townie Tam

June 6th, 2010, 10:50 AM

.
Hi SeoulDee.

We have different understandings of the meaning of "new"!
When you typed, "Realtime Worlds occupied a new office building", I thought you meant that they had moved from Marketgait into one of the newly built empty office buildings that are scattered around the city. I would call the Tay Works building in Marketgait a "conversion" from its previous conversion from a jute mill, not a "new" building. By the way, it also houses the Dundee Central Travelodge so it's not exclusively an office building.

You remarked,
The Vision building is very unusual and is being marketed specifically for Digital Media companies, so that won't be easy to fill. I've not been in Dundee for about a year, so I'm not sure if there is anybody in it at all?

Vision is, apparently, being used as a "venue for hire". The Dundee Degree Show was held there in 2009 but moved back to the Art College this year; the GoNorth Showcase Festival used it for a series of seminars and workshops, including a media panel hosted by the Courier's "Rocktalk", in 2008.

dufc1909

June 6th, 2010, 11:08 AM

So, we should accept these and hold our tongues? This thread is entitled "Developments at Dundee Waterfront"; no indication that it should only feature "good" developments. I would have thought this was an ideal platform to debate the benefits, or otherwise, of proposed developments.

Townie_Tam (Webgaffer) This forum gives people the opertunity for a point of view or discussion on aspects of developements going on in the city. I am not interested in debates. I say what I think, hope someone with influence listens, then move on.
I am more happy than not on the aspects of the waterfront project and therefore am really exited with whats to come. I have said it before and will say it again, everything we build now is a "temporary feature" and should not be looked upon as there to stay for ever. Lets make it the best we can for our needs now, as future generations will make it morph and change to what suits their needs. We begin with nothing of any character down there, it is reclaimed land and has no past.

But... is it really the opinion of contributors to this thread that any faults should be ignored, illogicalities should be accepted and we should be grateful for everything? Is the general opinion that any debate should be stifled? That the pros and cons should only feature the pros? If anything is questioned, the dummy should be spat out of the pram?

I listened to what you had to say, in the beginning, you had some good points, then you took it upon yourself to make it personal and hijack the forum. From then on I placed a SPAM filter on your name and anything you say goes straight into the un-recycle bin.

SeoulDee

June 6th, 2010, 01:19 PM

Hi SeoulDee.

We have different understandings of the meaning of "new"!
When you typed, "Realtime Worlds occupied a new office building", I thought you meant that they had moved from Marketgait into one of the newly built empty office buildings that are scattered around the city. I would call the Tay Works building in Marketgait a "conversion" from its previous conversion from a jute mill, not a "new" building. By the way, it also houses the Dundee Central Travelodge so it's not exclusively an office building.

Townie Tam,

You're reading too much into my post. I was merely stating that it is new office space in the city centre which has been taken up by private industry. Whether it was previously vacant land and a new building constructed, or an abandonned jute mill conversion is irrelevant. It is now brand new office accomodation for a high tech company. That was my point.

Rich B

June 6th, 2010, 01:48 PM

This building looks the absolute business. I liked the earlier proposals for the 60 bedroom hotel, but the redesigned 102 bedroom hotel is even better. Truly innovative... check out the updated elevations...

http://idoxwam.dundeecity.gov.uk/WAM133/doc/Drawing-279692.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=279692&location=VOLUME2&contentType=application/pdf&pageCou

dufc1909

June 6th, 2010, 02:20 PM

Here are their other projects, including the hotel / retail on Marketgait.

http://www.aimdesign.co.uk/portfolio/architecture/wellbank-residences

Townie Tam

June 6th, 2010, 02:21 PM

.
Hi dufc1909.

You typed,
then you took it upon yourself to make it personal and hijack the forum
I assume by "personal", you are referring to,
When I read that as an incomer to Dundee you regretted the demolition of the Royal Arch, I thought, "There's a guy to watch - he could be good for the toon." From your comments above, it would appear that you've become "housetrained".

Sad, really... You showed such promise.
That's the only instance I can find of my making a "personal" comment.

As to the accusation that I have "hijacked" the thread...
If someone posts something that I feel merits a response, I feel it is my right to respond. Are you suggesting that my 25 posts in 17 months (compared, for example, to your 78 in 15 months) indicate that I am, somehow, monopolising this thread?

However, I see my "personal" comment as the epitomé of resigned gentleness compared to the personal attack you launched (prior to mine of which you complain), when you typed in your post #885 of May 27th, 2010 at 07:57 PM -
There isn`t much faith in Dundee that mike galloway is the right person to lead & deliver.

He is not held in a high regard by people who have witnesed his previous phuckups.

Or the personal attack, once again on Mike Galloway, when Rich B opined in his post #891 of May 28th, 2010 at 06:05 PM ,
I agree with my fellow Arab.. Mike Galloway and his cronies are a major concern....

An example of Mr Galloway's arrogance can been seen at the APEX hotel...

It would appear that you have taken it upon yourself to be the arbiter of what is permissible on this forum. A personal remark that I made means the end of the world but you (and others) can toss them into your posts willy-nilly?

You finished off with,
From then on I placed a SPAM filter on your name and anything you say goes straight into the un-recycle bin.

Mmmm... I suppose that's what 'free speech' is all about. I'm free to type it and you're free to filter that with which you don't agree "straight into the un-recycle bin".
So, I supposed I'm mystified by your ability to respond unless, of course, you've been rakin' through the bin?

8=)

dundeepodcast

June 6th, 2010, 03:04 PM

Rich B

June 6th, 2010, 07:46 PM

Here are their other projects, including the hotel / retail on Marketgait.

http://www.aimdesign.co.uk/portfolio/architecture/wellbank-residences

I think AIM are currently the best architectural practice in Dundee. Their proposals for an extension to the Sensation Centre are really cool too. Unfortunately I don't think the money is there for it to go ahead.

Rich B

June 6th, 2010, 07:55 PM

Does anyone know anything about the proposed science learning centre which has been designed to sit in the greenmarket just west of sensation and has also been designed by AIM. This appears to be latest proposal to be sited next to Sensation and includes an auditorium and courtyard which will house the 30m bionic man by Dave Mach. Looks good. See video http://www.aimdesign.co.uk/portfolio/architecture/science-learning-centre

Townie Tam

June 6th, 2010, 09:44 PM

.
Below is a photo of what was described as the "60 foot woman". The photo features a model of the statue leaning against a model of the Crawford Building at Duncan of Jordanstone. The models were on display at the Ian Low Centre at Ninewells Hospital for some weeks during 2004. How time flies...

http://freespace.virgin.net/b.massie/2010/100_0669-700.jpg

dufc1909

June 7th, 2010, 10:12 AM

Quote:
From then on I placed a SPAM filter on your name and anything you say goes straight into the un-recycle bin.

Townie_Tam, I apologise for that statement. It was said in haste and without thinking.

SeoulDee

June 7th, 2010, 12:29 PM

People here are on about office accomodation and a business district. All public consultations, DCC or otherwise, have put that at the bottom of the list so the true voice of the people that live in Dundee is not being heard which seems to be the norm with the majority of our councillors over the years. Rather than having offices above the proposed retail units etc why not affordable housing like I have mentioned because that comes well above offices in all the consultations.

As for office space in Dundee they can't even rent out this in Dundee One http://www.egpropertylink.com/EGPLPROPERTY12657419.htm The Greenmarket http://classifieds.vivastreet.co.uk/office+instantoffices/office-space-in-greenmarket/15790 or some of the space in West Port/Marketgait - http://www.james-keiller-estates.com/project.php?id=77 and if you look at the left hand side of that page you will see other places plus searches will find more.

If some of the above new or newish office property can't be let how can office property be let in the Waterfront Project? The whole creating something vibrant for office workers doesn't wash it's the ordinary Dundee public who should be attracted to the area if it's a business district with a few shops it isn't going to work. Also on the retail issue they have enough difficulty letting places in The Wellgate, Overgate, other city centre locations and retail parks on the outskirts of city centre or outlying ones. On this issue if some of the big retail companies move to the Waterfront then will the places I mentioned become ghost towns?

Should we let the outlying business parks become ghost towns when there is excellent office accomodation there already and good road networks nearby? A few examples for let Discovery Centre which the NCR had http://www.egpropertylink.com/EGPLPROPERTY12764789.htm This office at Barlow Park in Baldovie http://www.yourcityoffice.com/office-space-dundee/OFEG06032007210155/serviced-office-Barlow-Park.html?con=UK amd also this one in Faraday Street as examples http://www.yourcityoffice.com/office-space-dundee/OFEG06032007483894u/serviced-office-Faraday-Street.html?con=UK

Maybe NOW is the time for the councillors in Dundee, the planners and civil servants to sit back and take onboard some of what I have mentioned to start asking questions. They may create a fantastic mixed use Waterfront but they may make other areas of the city ghost towns, some of which have been already. A little more thought is definitely needed as well as the planners and bosses like Mike Galloway totally ignoring all the public consulations because from where I am sitting all I've heard from the media or friends in the business is Waterfront, offices, offices, offices or business district which seems to slant more towards the latter.

After posting this I had one other thought has anyone ever thought that the Tay Road Bridge was actually built in the wrong place which has created the problem we now have? The Forth Road Bridge doesn't land in the centre of Edinburgh maybe a leaf should have been taken out of that book back in the late 1950's and early 1960's when the original plans were made. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Cheap social housing won't create jobs though. Dundee's property prices must be some of the lowest in the country. Dundee already has a higher percentage of social housing than most areas. Rather than building more social housing for people to rent, why not encourage business to create jobs and wealth, to let people buy their own properties. Asking the public what they want located at the waterfront is like asking Scotland fans why we never qualified for the World Cup. Everybody will have thier own opinions, but ultimately the manager makes the best decision for the team. People's opinions will basically be selfish. The whole point of the waterfront generation is to move Dundee away from is recent past of being a city where too many people lived on benefits, to create a new economy to let the city prosper. What would affordable housing bring to the city centre? Without offending anyone, there are plenty of social housing in places like the Hilltown and look what a mess has resulted in that. High crime, unemployment, drug use etc. I want less social housing, not more. A better city economy can move people away from requiring social housing.

"The whole creating something vibrant for office workers doesn't wash it's the ordinary Dundee public who should be attracted to the area if it's a business district with a few shops it isn't going to work."

Aren't the ordinary Dundee public also the workers in the city centre? Who else is going to work there? Who else is going to live there?

As for the retail you mentioned, the last time i was in Dundee, there were virtually no empty units in the Overgate or Murraygate. The Wellgate has plenty empty space because it's sub-standard and in desperate need of a complete overhaul, similar to the Overgate recieved 10 years ago. It can barely even be classed as prime retail space.

dundeepodcast

June 7th, 2010, 01:59 PM

Cheap social housing won't create jobs though. Dundee's property prices must be some of the lowest in the country. Dundee already has a higher percentage of social housing than most areas. Rather than building more social housing for people to rent, why not encourage business to create jobs and wealth, to let people buy their own properties. Asking the public what they want located at the waterfront is like asking Scotland fans why we never qualified for the World Cup. Everybody will have thier own opinions, but ultimately the manager makes the best decision for the team. People's opinions will basically be selfish. The whole point of the waterfront generation is to move Dundee away from is recent past of being a city where too many people lived on benefits, to create a new economy to let the city prosper. What would affordable housing bring to the city centre? Without offending anyone, there are plenty of social housing in places like the Hilltown and look what a mess has resulted in that. High crime, unemployment, drug use etc. I want less social housing, not more. A better city economy can move people away from requiring social housing.

"The whole creating something vibrant for office workers doesn't wash it's the ordinary Dundee public who should be attracted to the area if it's a business district with a few shops it isn't going to work."

Aren't the ordinary Dundee public also the workers in the city centre? Who else is going to work there? Who else is going to live there?

As for the retail you mentioned, the last time i was in Dundee, there were virtually no empty units in the Overgate or Murraygate. The Wellgate has plenty empty space because it's sub-standard and in desperate need of a complete overhaul, similar to the Overgate recieved 10 years ago. It can barely even be classed as prime retail space.

Actually I do take offence, probably others looking in will too when you say there are enough problems with social housing, and I definitely take offence regarding the Hilltown because it is the one area that gets picked on that's in process of starting of a massive regeneration programme as well as sorting problems out. Other areas of the city are actually worse than there maybe you need to stop seeing things through rose tinted glasses from Seoul, or Shanghai or amongst the Cree Indians of Canada, for all I know. I've actually lived in the area and it is not as bad as is made out by the media in Dundee at times. Don't get me started on the demolition of the community centre there with no public consultation a done deal with whoever is regenerating the area between Ann Street and Alexander Street methinks.

If you honestly think Dundee doesn't need more social housing I think you should come home from your Dundee sabbatical and actually see what is happening. Have a read of this the latest figures via Shelter regarding housing in the city http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/housing_issues/get_your_housing_facts/dundee_city

Out of much of the housing in Dundee it is sub-standard or getting too old, I believe there are housing association houses down at City Quay already there are no problems there. To bring the housing in Dundee up to the new housing quality standard it would probably actually be cheaper to build new houses in the majority of cases because of damp, bad sound proofing, wonky floors, dodgy heating systems and the list goes on and on. That's the trouble with some they put people in social housing into a category, not everyone working or not can afford to buy houses especially with lack of jobs as well as low wages, not everyone in social housing is a drug addict, alcoholic, anti-social, involved in crime etc in fact I've experienced the working person to cause more problems with some of these things. Also all the demolition orders on some of the social housing is creating more of a shortage with one Dundee councillor actually having the guts to find an alternative for two of the buildings which sadly has been lost but he tried. I wish more on the council were like him when fighting for issues or asking questions regarding others including the Waterfront.

We don't need more offices we need more industry back in our city to create jobs, problem there is the governments need to start giving companies incentives to come to Dundee not to send their work abroad with NCR being one prime example. Mind you I do think part of the downfall of industry in Dundee has been the unions over the years. Not everyone that works here lives in Dundee there is a massive commuting working population that come into the city, in fact these days probably more people from outwith the city actually work here. If you say people can retrain have you actully seen how many people trying to get their foot back on the education ladder and can't because of lack of places which is probably going to get worse due to government cuts.

You still seem to be concentrating on the city centre area when there are many industrial estates or the technology park with offices sitting empty with good road access. I've proved this with the links and at the moment you just need to go around these places to see the quality of the buildings. I notice no comment either on the space that can't even be let as yet. As far as your analogy to the Scotland fans comparing it to the people of Dundee I find that snobbish, insulting and damn right downgrading to the public of Dundee they do have brains and can form opinions that are correct.

From the last time you were in Dundee some work has been done to The Wellgate, you are so out of touch with what is actually going on here in the city I think you're falling far too much for the hype about certain subjects and are not seeing the actual reality of it all. Maybe I should point the Wellgate Centre management towards your comments and get a statement from them because I think they will disagree with you there.

I think you should go back and look at all the surveys and if Mike Galloway or any of his lackies are looking in I think they should look where DCC and the CC&HCC surveys put office accomodation. Look hard at the survey because you are going against the wishes of the Dundee people. Some people can't see past that here because they are either worried about not getting work in the planning area, architects, surveying etc etc or they couldn't care less what the Dundee public actually want which some have now proved.

One other thing leisure facilities and the like will pull people down to the Waterfront also much more than offices will which very high up on the surveys, open space was another thing but all we are getting is a green square. One person actually said to me yesterday they thought there was to be a marina at the development because of what they had seen on the plans. I had to direct them to the various places to look at new documents and old to compare and also sent them here to look at what is being said. They were shocked that the goalposts keep getting moved regarding this project. Personally I hope more of the public see this page as well as others to see what is really being said and done not the hype.

I said yesterday hindsight is a wonderful thing, let's hope I won't be on my zimmer frame or the young people of now when they are older are standing behind me screaming from their soapboxes why did you get this so wrong for our city and not listen to the Dundee people at the time?

SeoulDee

June 7th, 2010, 04:22 PM

Actually I do take offence, probably others looking in will too when you say there are enough problems with social housing, and I definitely take offence regarding the Hilltown because it is the one area that gets picked on that's in process of starting of a massive regeneration programme as well as sorting problems out. Other areas of the city are actually worse than there maybe you need to stop seeing things through rose tinted glasses from Seoul, or Shanghai or amongst the Cree Indians of Canada, for all I know. I've actually lived in the area and it is not as bad as is made out by the media in Dundee at times. Don't get me started on the demolition of the community centre there with no public consultation a done deal with whoever is regenerating the area between Ann Street and Alexander Street methinks.

The Hilltown was the first place that came to my head. Lochee, Stobswell etc have similar problems. The Hilltown regeneration plans are on the council website, but unless they create jobs, it will be a waste of time. They need to get to the root causes of the social problems rather than just a physical regeneration. It only takes a walk through these areas of the city to see there are huge social problems there.

Out of much of the housing in Dundee it is sub-standard or getting too old, I believe there are housing association houses down at City Quay already there are no problems there. To bring the housing in Dundee up to the new housing quality standard it would probably actually be cheaper to build new houses in the majority of cases because of damp, bad sound proofing, wonky floors, dodgy heating systems and the list goes on and on. That's the trouble with some they put people in social housing into a category, not everyone working or not can afford to buy houses especially with lack of jobs as well as low wages, not everyone in social housing is a drug addict, alcoholic, anti-social, involved in crime etc in fact I've experienced the working person to cause more problems with some of these things. Also all the demolition orders on some of the social housing is creating more of a shortage with one Dundee councillor actually having the guts to find an alternative for two of the buildings which sadly has been lost but he tried. I wish more on the council were like him when fighting for issues or asking questions regarding others including the Waterfront.

We don't need more offices we need more industry back in our city to create jobs, problem there is the governments need to start giving companies incentives to come to Dundee not to send their work abroad with NCR being one prime example. Mind you I do think part of the downfall of industry in Dundee has been the unions over the years. Not everyone that works here lives in Dundee there is a massive commuting working population that come into the city, in fact these days probably more people from outwith the city actually work here. If you say people can retrain have you actully seen how many people trying to get their foot back on the education ladder and can't because of lack of places which is probably going to get worse due to government cuts.

You make a good point, and one I very much agree with. We need more jobs and higher paid jobs in the city. Face the facts though, the industry that you talk of is not coming back. Cash machines will never again be built in Dundee, ships will never again be built in Dundee, Levi's jeans, Timex watches... The Chinese are simply miles ahead of us in these things now. Chinese factory workers will work for £100-£150 a month. Fuel cost are filthy cheap because the Chinese mined coal is dirt cheap. They have industrial estates with hundreds of thousands of workers. That will not come back to cities like Dundee for a very long time.

The city council are trying to build an economy based on an educated workforce. New technologies etc. Western countries universities ensure that we have a big edge over places like China in education. That is why our future involves working in offices rather than factories. Retraining and getting more people into education is the key. Forget the old industries.

You still seem to be concentrating on the city centre area when there are many industrial estates or the technology park with offices sitting empty with good road access. I've proved this with the links and at the moment you just need to go around these places to see the quality of the buildings. I notice no comment either on the space that can't even be let as yet.

Yes i am talking about the city centre area, because that is where the waterfront development is. We were discussing the waterfront development, not Dundee as a whole. The offices that you talk of at West Pitkerro etc are not top grade offices. Companies like Alliance Trust or Realtime Worlds would not want to be located there. They want to be down town, with access to public transport and other facilities. We are supposed to be trying to reduce car use, not increase it by having people work in suburban business parks.

As far as your analogy to the Scotland fans comparing it to the people of Dundee I find that snobbish, insulting and damn right downgrading to the public of Dundee they do have brains and can form opinions that are correct.

Likewise, your opinion is surely insulting to the experienced, educated and qualified people working in the council making these kind of decisions. They know the full facts. We don't. It's all very well saying to build more social housing in the waterfront, but are there any organisations actually willing and able to build this housing? And if so, why should social housing be located in a prime site such as the central waterfront? Surely the existing social housing areas should be regenerated, and the waterfront used as a method of creating good quality jobs to retain the thousands of university graduates from Dundee each year. Create jobs that can elevate people from social housing to private housing.

From the last time you were in Dundee some work has been done to The Wellgate, you are so out of touch with what is actually going on here in the city I think you're falling far too much for the hype about certain subjects and are not seeing the actual reality of it all. Maybe I should point the Wellgate Centre management towards your comments and get a statement from them because I think they will disagree with you there.

The Wellgate has being undergoing various small renovations for several years. They said their policy was to attract budget retailers to the centre, rather than the higher brand that the Overgate attracts. River Island, Next, Mothercare etc all used to be located in there but they have all moved out over the years. I think that says something about the place. It is my opinion that it could do with an overhaul. Just an opinion.

One other thing leisure facilities and the like will pull people down to the Waterfront also much more than offices will which very high up on the surveys, open space was another thing but all we are getting is a green square. One person actually said to me yesterday they thought there was to be a marina at the development because of what they had seen on the plans. I had to direct them to the various places to look at new documents and old to compare and also sent them here to look at what is being said. They were shocked that the goalposts keep getting moved regarding this project. Personally I hope more of the public see this page as well as others to see what is really being said and done not the hype.

I agree there should be some leisure facilities at the waterfront. But remember, before this waterfront work started, there was a park beside the bridge ramps, a swimming and leisure centre, Discovery visitor centre, a casino, a hotel. All leisure facilties like you are calling for, yet it was a disaster of a place. I have said all along, the waterfront development must be a mixed use area, like the city centre of Dundee is. Offices, retail, restaurants, bars, nightclubs, private housing, rented housing, leisure facilities. A mixture is what makes city centres what they are.

From your comments, it sounds like you want the waterfront development to be a social housing area with a lot of green space. Sounds like Ardler of old, or Whitifield.... a roaring success...

SeoulDee

June 7th, 2010, 04:29 PM

http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/output/2010/06/07/story15185504t0.shtm

SPSA open new Dundee One office at the waterfront.

SeoulDee

June 7th, 2010, 04:33 PM

http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/output/2010/06/07/story15185504t0.shtm

SPSA open new Dundee One office at the waterfront.

Townie Tam

June 7th, 2010, 06:56 PM

.
Hi dufc1909.

You typed,
Townie_Tam, I apologise for that statement. It was said in haste and without thinking.

Apology accepted. I think we can agree that everybody who contributes to this thread has the interests of Dundee at heart. Where we may find differences of opinion arising is in the area of what "Dundee" actually is. Is it all the people who constitute the community who live there? Is it the physical constructions that make up our houses, offices, factories, service centres, roads, etc, and the geographical features that provide respite from the infrastructure, like parks, gardens, beaches, etc? Is it the business community which provides the wages and salaries that allow us to enjoy the latter? Should the priorities of one take precedence over the others?

We should be able to discuss or debate without making personal attacks, of which I admit guilt in respect of my remarks about jeff_h. Maybe he isn't so much "house trained" as grounded by the powers-that-be? We can only indulge in conjecture.

I know we're not going to agree on everything but, from comments in this thread, I do detect some disquiet in the direction that the Central Waterfront redevelopment may travel. Surely the more public debate there is, the better? I know from personal experience of the machinations of our council that there is no point in heads being buried in the sand. The more people who pop their heads over the dunes and shout, the better.

___________________________________________________________

Hi SeoulDee.

There are too many points in yours and dundeepodcast's latest posts to address them all. You both make good points. However...

I feel we have to differentiate between the emphasis reported in the press (offices) and a business district. Yes, the city centre is a business district, in that there is a fair old variety of businesses located there - general offices, retail, leisure (including pubs, restaurants, cafes, art galleries, theatres, cinemas, etc), rented accommodation, and so on.

But this emphasis on "offices" in the new waterfront bothers me. It seems, as I've said before, that this seems to be the priority and anything else is secondary. This is NOT in line with the results of the public consultation that was carried out in 2000, nor is it in line with the results of the public consultation carried out by the CC&HCC in 2008.

As the direction that is being followed does not lean in the direction of the two consultations, anyone less charitable than me could be led to assume that the 2000 consultation was window dressing, to give Joe Public the impression that his views matter, and all the policy decisions had already been made. What is the point of a public consultation if the public's wishes are ignored?

If councillors are content to nod through variations to the original masterplan without question, then carte blanche is, effectively, given to "the planners" to tinker to their hearts' desire.

Have a look at the video at:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTcKnawFRxA

It's a 5 minute extract from the complete CC&HCC movie and compares the results of the 2000 and 2008 consultations. They give a picture of what the public are looking for from the redevelopment. The only hope I have is that the V&A's proposed location on the waterfront will alter the mindset of those we elect to run the city for us.

Part 1 of the complete 5 part CC&HCC movie can be seen at:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUvAa-1B43w
The links for the remaining parts are in my post #873 of May 24th, 2010 at 06:20 PM on page 44.

dundeepodcast

June 7th, 2010, 07:09 PM

The Hilltown was the first place that came to my head. Lochee, Stobswell etc have similar problems. The Hilltown regeneration plans are on the council website, but unless they create jobs, it will be a waste of time. They need to get to the root causes of the social problems rather than just a physical regeneration. It only takes a walk through these areas of the city to see there are huge social problems there.

Once again looking through those rose tinted spectacles you are once again saying that the regeneration of an area doesn't bring jobs. Do houses magically build themselves, if you know how you're onto a winner, building houses creates jobs many good tradesmen are out of work. Once again you pick areas that have had a few leading stories in the media, I've been at ground level and see what the communities department do for these areas and others as well as taking part in meetings. Don't say it is a waste of time because that is the typical snobbery from a minority of Dundonians living away, are outside Dundee communiting or think they are better than the working class or someone living on a minimum wage struggling to make ends meet.

You make a good point, and one I very much agree with. We need more jobs and higher paid jobs in the city. Face the facts though, the industry that you talk of is not coming back. Cash machines will never again be built in Dundee, ships will never again be built in Dundee, Levi's jeans, Timex watches... The Chinese are simply miles ahead of us in these things now. Chinese factory workers will work for £100-£150 a month. Fuel cost are filthy cheap because the Chinese mined coal is dirt cheap. They have industrial estates with hundreds of thousands of workers. That will not come back to cities like Dundee for a very long time.

A very biased opinion from someone who is working abroad and probably sold out his fellow Dundonians to the dirt cheap Chinese slave labour. All in the name of the big fat cats having a massive profit over Dundee workforces and people's loyalties in the past. Sorry to say but the quality of product coming out of China is awful especially electronics or computing equipment and that comes from someone who has worked on these items compared to what I have in the past. Many electrical items from China are very prone to failure.

The city council are trying to build an economy based on an educated workforce. New technologies etc. Western countries universities ensure that we have a big edge over places like China in education. That is why our future involves working in offices rather than factories. Retraining and getting more people into education is the key. Forget the old industries.

Who mentioned university not everyone has the inclination or skill to attend university or have mummy and daddy to help put them through financially. I was on about college in Dundee where places are very scarce as well as waiting lists some poeple do need that stepping stone before university. Many of the people working in the new technologies aren't Dundonians and have moved to the area which doesn't solve the problem of the rest of the unemployed in Dundee, no wonder there are social problems and disillusionment. I can point the finger of blame when all the problems started across the whole UK but not going to get into that part of politics just let's say nationalising many industries and sectors was the biggest mistake ever made in the UK and now we are paying the price.

Yes i am talking about the city centre area, because that is where the waterfront development is. We were discussing the waterfront development, not Dundee as a whole. The offices that you talk of at West Pitkerro etc are not top grade offices. Companies like Alliance Trust or Realtime Worlds would not want to be located there. They want to be down town, with access to public transport and other facilities. We are supposed to be trying to reduce car use, not increase it by having people work in suburban business parks.

Total rubbish maybe in your eyes they are not top grade offices but in others they are. I've been in Discovery House the old NCR building and my friend worked there too it is a state of the art office building which Bruce Linton owns. Tell what you have said also to the original designers and architects they will probably say different. I brought the subject up outwith the city centre for one reason it is being ignored. For your information I have actually been in the old DMA building at the Technology Park too and to me it looked okay inside but expansion was needed the gaming industry is far better near Abertay where much of that activity takes place. As for car use I think the school car runs in massive 4x4's probably cause more pollution than having to travel to suburban business parks. There are also many projects in Dundee who encourage car share plus websites to arrange such things. If I had been able to attend a Solar Cities conference this month this was one of the arrangements for that plus my lift was already sorted to go.

Likewise, your opinion is surely insulting to the experienced, educated and qualified people working in the council making these kind of decisions. They know the full facts. We don't. It's all very well saying to build more social housing in the waterfront, but are there any organisations actually willing and able to build this housing? And if so, why should social housing be located in a prime site such as the central waterfront? Surely the existing social housing areas should be regenerated, and the waterfront used as a method of creating good quality jobs to retain the thousands of university graduates from Dundee each year. Create jobs that can elevate people from social housing to private housing.

I think you have been more insulting to the working class people in Dundee, in fact I don't think I actually made a reference of this sort until the one about mummy and daddy and education at university. I'm sure one of the housing associations who I believe were involved with the mews project at City Quay would be more than willing to be involved. You keep going on about university graduates not everyone is up to the standard of going through that type of education so should they be ignored because they need social housing? In one word NO they shouldn't and you have avoided this and I have given you pure fact from Shelter regarding the housing situation in Dundee which you have avoided and ignored. If there is going to housing, the social housing should be much more than luxury flats costing a million like at City Quay. I've lived in Poole just look at Sandbanks as a prime example for over inflating house prices which would happen to the ones at The Waterfront. If they know the full facts in Tayside House or City Chambers then maybe they should start being more open and transparent to the Dundee public because I would love an FOI request on what has been going on but no doubt it would be refused with the usual excuses like it's not in the public interest.

The Wellgate has being undergoing various small renovations for several years. They said their policy was to attract budget retailers to the centre, rather than the higher brand that the Overgate attracts. River Island, Next, Mothercare etc all used to be located in there but they have all moved out over the years. I think that says something about the place. It is my opinion that it could do with an overhaul. Just an opinion.

It is well known and been fact published by retailers associations that budget stores are doing far better than some of the big names. When I see these budget stores they are far busier than other retailers. There is nothing wrong with units in The Wellgate and I believe there is a large national retailer lined up to move into the old Woolworths store which is currently being refitted. Remember not everyone can afford to pay £70 or £100 plus for a pair of jeans and even celebrities across the UK have been seen using the budget retailers. Probably one of the reasons budget retailers are making bigger profits than anyone, put it this way I'd rather spend £10 on a trainers than spend £50 - £100 plus because of the name on them.

I agree there should be some leisure facilities at the waterfront. But remember, before this waterfront work started, there was a park beside the bridge ramps, a swimming and leisure centre, Discovery visitor centre, a casino, a hotel. All leisure facilties like you are calling for, yet it was a disaster of a place.

Maybe it's all to do with access. I'm going to quote my late father who worked in the building trade now and again in the offices at constructions. When he saw them get rid of a Shore Tce bus stance and watched Tayside House go up he said this is going to have a major impact on people going down to the Waterfront area. How right he was apart from the numbers visiting Olympia which are okay, the hotel looks more like Cell Block H, and the casino is also a well used facility but is possibly suffering because of the new one. I miss the grass area where the hotel and casino stands which was always very busy on a summer lunchtime afternoon or holiday.

I have said all along, the waterfront development must be a mixed use area, like the city centre of Dundee is. Offices, retail, restaurants, bars, nightclubs, private housing, rented housing, leisure facilities. A mixture is what makes city centres what they are

I'll agree with that partly BUT private luxury flats like I have mentioned above should not take priority over social housing. Also offices as in the consultations should not take priority over everything else.

From your comments, it sounds like you want the waterfront development to be a social housing area with a lot of green space. Sounds like Ardler of old, or Whitifield.... a roaring success...

Blame the council or corporation at the time for the Whitfield Skarne, same goes for Ardler. No I don't want another Ardler or Whitfield and if you've actually been in those areas in recent years they are looking pretty damn good.

I took part in a survey with officials from the Scottish Parliament regarding green space in Dundee last year. One subject that was brought up was green space in the city centre, guess what some people mentioned, the lack of play facilities and spaces for children. This was nothing to do with the CC&HCC as I don't live in that area but it's interesting that people from another area of the city who were asked about the subject came to the same conclusion as someone from that Community Council as has been pointed out by Townie Tam. Also people mentioned to get to decent green space they had to travel across the city to get there or go outwith the city which is taking money away from the economy within. This should be another provision for The Waterfront and another suggestion is the water feature, why can't that be used as a boating pond or something of that nature because the state Stobsmuir Ponds is in these day it could be utilised for this or even radio controlled boats.

As I keep saying the council are trying in hindsight to rectify problems of 40 - 50 years ago, I want it to be right like others do and I want the public consultations to be adhered to not ignored by Galloway and his cronies who are giving spin to the councillors and they are passing things without question. NOW is the time they should be listening because as I've already said before that hindsight might come into effect again in another 40 - 50 years time.

adammccall

June 7th, 2010, 08:58 PM

I feel this thread has lost its community feel :(

dundeepodcast

June 7th, 2010, 09:49 PM

I feel this thread has lost its community feel :(

Can you please elaborate on that comment. Is it because people are starting to question certain aspects of the project and other areas of it? Is it because members of the public don't agree with the professionals and are questioning what they are doing? Don't see anywhere on this forum where it says in the rules that everyone should agree. Think Townie Tam got it right too many house trained people in here or they have been pulled in by the reigns.

Urban Life

June 7th, 2010, 09:57 PM

I feel this thread has lost its community feel :(

I couldn't agree more. The true meaning of the thread has been lost. We should unite behind the fact Dundee is changing for the better and the negativity in parts of the thread will not look good to people visiting the thread from outside city. I understand elements of the waterfront development may not be welcomed by all, but continued negativity in this thread will discourage people from contributing. I think debate can be constructive, but over a prolonged period it will be detrimental to this thread. In this period of transition for the city we as Dundonians must look forward to the changes in an upbeat and 'can-do' manner. If we don't feel positive about the city and the developments then Dundee will be going nowhere.

Just think the 'V&A at Dundee' - how many cities in the world would bite our hands off to be host to such a respected name? We should relish the opportunity our city has to launch itself onto a world stage.

I will conclude- this point of view should not be seen as offensive towards anyone. This thread has gone from strength from strength since Jeff h formed it- with the interesting updates on developments from many contributors. I will strive to update photographic progress and news when I can. Finally I am doing this for the reason to see the City of Dundee prosper, develop and improve it's image across the U.K. and the world. Maybe this founding desire is wishful thinking, but surely this is what the proud citizens of Dundee deserve?

Anyway back to business. Brian Cox and Lorraine Kelly have been chosen as figures to promote tourists to visit Dundee and experience what the city has to offer. On STV tonight. Will try to update info. Might be on dundee.com.

dundeepodcast

June 7th, 2010, 10:24 PM

I couldn't agree more. The true meaning of the thread has been lost. We should unite behind the fact Dundee is changing for the better and the negativity in parts of the thread will not look good to people visiting the thread from outside city. I understand elements of the waterfront development may not be welcomed by all, but continued negativity in this thread will discourage people from contributing. I think debate can be constructive, but over a prolonged period it will be detrimental to this thread. In this period of transition for the city we as Dundonians must look forward to the changes in an upbeat and 'can-do' manner. If we don't feel positive about the city and the developments then Dundee will be going nowhere.

Just think the 'V&A at Dundee' - how many cities in the world would bite our hands off to be host to such a respected name? We should relish the opportunity our city has to launch itself onto a world stage.

So only people that can't question certain aspects of the Waterfront or disagree should post is basically what you are saying. From my belief of using internet forums, newsgroups etc online since the 1990's is that it's about differing opinions and ideas. In an ideal world everything would be rosy in the garden but sorry life isn't like that and people do question things and don't tow the party line. As I keep saying I don't want future generations to have to right our wrongs in years to come. I'm fed up of the mention of offices in the media which has been very misleading compared to the consultations.

I'm all for the V&A and have never criticised that aspect of the project once and I don't think anyone else has but other things have been questioned which is the right of every member of the public who filled in the consulations. I am one who did fill in one of the consultations and as far as I can see public opinion is not being adhered to by those in charge.

Townie Tam

June 7th, 2010, 11:39 PM

.
Hi adammccall.

You typed,
I feel this thread has lost its community feel

No community anywhere has 100% agreement on everything. To paraphrase; a community that has disagreements is not, suddenly, an ex-community, It should not be pinin'. It should not be in a state of having passed on. This community should not be no more! It should not cease to be! It should not expire and go to meet its maker! It's not a stiff, bereft of life, resting in peace! It hasn't kicked the bucket, shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!

In fact, there's been more life in the past few days than I've seen in a while!
______________________________________________________

Hi Urban Life.

You typed,
I think debate can be constructive, but over a prolonged period it will be detrimental to this thread.

Debates ebb and flow and die. Different debates may be born and have their short life as well. I don't think a debate lasting a few days is anything to write home about. I wouldn't assume that because this thread hasn't had (m)any before that the couple here will carry on "over a prolonged period". I've made my points about the policies that seem to have been adopted re the waterfront. Others have the right to ignore them, accept them, or debate them as they wish.

8=)

SeoulDee

June 8th, 2010, 04:04 AM

We just have to agree to differ sometimes. It's good that people are interested enough to debate these issues though. Just for clarification though, it was hinted that i am some kind of snob. I can assure you until a few years ago i lived in a housing scheme in the north of Dundee and worked part-time to pay my way through Abertay uni. Nothing snobbish about that. My family still live there.

I'm sure we all agree that Dundee is improving for the better, but some of the decisions being made are not perfect. Hopefully we will see the waterfront emerge in a few years with something for everyone.

dufc1909

June 8th, 2010, 12:49 PM

Rich B

June 8th, 2010, 01:46 PM

If anyone is going along to this could they keep us informed about the plans and what they mean by "procurment options"

http://www2.rics.org/AspNetForums/blogs/scotlanddefaultaspx/archive/2010/05/25/tayside-construction-forum-inaugural-meeting.aspx

Procurement Options are normally the differing methods to deliver a construction project and normally relate to which type of Contract (between Client and Contractor) is agreed upon, and the subsequent make up of the project team. ie. With basic construction projects, the Architect is the contract administrator and basically administers the building project between builder and client, however in more complex building projects, ie. the scottish parliament etc. more complex contracts are agreed upon where project managers or even the contractor administers the project. In this instance the 'procurement option' may relate to how the building is funded also.

The Boy David

June 8th, 2010, 11:58 PM

Hi guys,

Just want to throw in my two cents about this thread.

It's definitely one of the better threads in this forum, and it's amazing to see so many enthusiastic posters here. There's far more activity from you guys than there is from the Edinburgh folks, so fair play to you all for that.

The discussion here is actually quite interesting. I can see what some of you mean by saying that the thread has lost a bit of its friendly-ness, and perhaps it has, but it's been replaced by good debating, which is something the GMA has built a reputation for - certainly the standard of chat being posted "up here" is in general far higher than "down there".

Don't stop debating, but perhaps try not to be so confrontational - debates don't need to be point by point, blow by blow breakdowns, they can be a bit more casual if you take the time to realise what's important to respond to in someone's post, and what can just be left alone.

Anyway guys keep this thread up - I enjoy reading it, and I'm willing to bet there's countless others who do to :)

crusty_bint

June 9th, 2010, 09:02 AM

nice words dave but with jeff (and all his info and images) gone there aint much left of this thread

Rich B

June 9th, 2010, 01:21 PM

NEW COSTINGS for a proposed Victoria & Albert museum in Dundee are running at £45 million, £2 million lower than initially envisaged.

Dundee’s director of city development, Mike Galloway, addressed local building industry insiders at a meeting in the city last night.

He pledged that a firm hand is being kept on the budget for the project.

“This is no Scottish Parliament,” he added, referring to the huge overspend on the Holyrood building.

Mr Galloway addressed the launch of the Tayside Construction Forum (TCF) in the Dalhousie Building at Dundee University.

A design brief for the V&A in Dundee will be sent to six short-listed architects in the next fortnight.

They will be asked to submit models of their design concepts, to be displayed in Dundee before going on show at the V&A in London.

After presenting an overview of the Central Waterfront project, Mr Galloway moved on to focus on the V&A and his vision for a £9 million upgrade of the concourse at Dundee railway station.

He said the V&A project has made a virtue out of a necessity, and the need to find a suitable waterfront site to deliver the completed museum by the end of 2014 led to the decision to build out into the river.

How that is to be done, on a decked pier or landfill, is to be included in the building’s design.

The completed V&A will house “big blockbuster exhibitions that go around the world,” and feature the best of modern Scottish design and areas for “knowledge exchange.”

“It is about the relation between art and design and I feel that is the niche that we can exploit in Dundee, particularly with the work being done at Duncan of Jordanstone,” he said.

It was important for the building to attract the same “public acclaim” that accompanied the opening of DCA, he added.

Mr Galloway said he had been working for some years “behind the scenes” on a plan to develop the railway station and felt the £9 million proposal could be delivered.

The need to replace a number of old Victorian bridges around the station gave the opportunity to extend the work to replace the concourse and provide better facilities, including shops and a first-class waiting room.

The drive was on to deliver the new station at the same time as the V&A but, he accepted, there is still a “funding gap” to be resolved.

Unsurprisingly, Mr Galloway was asked what the V&A project and associated works could mean for the construction industry in Tayside.

He replied that the assessment of potential developers to work on the site would include their plans to use local contractors or sub-contractors, and to provide training.

It was also suggested to Mr Galloway that the streets leading from the city centre to the new museum are “tacky”.

He agreed that the area would have to be “lifted” to complement the new building.

However, he said it was something of a “chicken and egg” situation.

Once the museum attracts greater footfall, better business opportunities will open up, he suggested.

Newly elected chairman of the TCF, council contract services director Ken Laing, said he saw the forum as a “self-help group” to help the industry battle its way through the recession by promoting and sharing best practice and innovation.

The forum has been set up with the support of the Scottish Construction Centre, Dundee University and Dundee, Angus and Perth colleges.

alonzo-ny

June 9th, 2010, 08:30 PM

This project will absolutely, definitely go over budget.

zipper

June 9th, 2010, 09:07 PM

This project will absolutely, definitely go over budget.

yup ....would stick my Mortgage on it

Gommsta

June 9th, 2010, 09:10 PM

For something of this magnitude for the city, its almost worth it.

Luke Nohands

June 10th, 2010, 09:44 AM

Its hard to imagine an iconic building being built at that price tbh. is that including the architect fees? Can't see them not charging bout 5% at least.

Rich B

June 10th, 2010, 12:26 PM

Its hard to imagine an iconic building being built at that price tbh. is that including the architect fees? Can't see them not charging bout 5% at least.

Do you think that they have reduced the budget for the V and A to help fund the revamp of the station. 9 million for a new gateway into Dundee seems very modest also.

Luke Nohands

June 10th, 2010, 12:52 PM

Think the budget for v&a was always near about the figure quoted. The railway station SHOULD be funded by railtrack but that's another debate/ bugbear. I cite the money being lavished on waverley as the source of my bitterness. ;)

Jaydot

June 11th, 2010, 10:46 AM

10 Jun 2010 10:34
£3.8 million boost for Dundee Central Waterfront

One of Scottish Enterprise’s key economic development projects has received a £3.8 million cash injection from the Scottish Government, it was announced today, 10 June 2010.

The £70 million Dundee Central Waterfront project, which aims to transform the Tayside economy by creating a major new central business district, has been highlighted as a key project by the Scottish Government to receive accelerated funding as part of its economic recovery programme.

Scottish Enterprise will invest the capital to bring forward essential preparatory works to pave the way for the landmark V&A project which is anticipated to become a world leading centre of 21st century design located at the heart of Dundee’s redeveloped waterfront.

Lena Wilson, Chief Executive of Scottish Enterprise said: “Today’s announcement presents a significant opportunity to expedite redevelopment of Dundee’s waterfront by accelerating infrastructure development on site which will ultimately bring forward completion dates and generate valuable jobs and investment.

“The V&A will feature at the heart of Dundee’s Waterfront regeneration and will become an inspiring hub for Scotland’s creative industries.”

John Swinney, Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth, said: "Dundee is fast becoming one of the UK's most vibrant destinations for business, study and leisure. The Dundee Waterfront Project, including the landmark V&A development, will play a vital role in helping the city to realise its ambitions – by creating jobs, attracting investment and stimulating economic growth both for Tayside and the wider Scottish economy. It makes sense to accelerate the funding required to bring about these significant benefits and help sustain our recent return to economic growth.”

Ken Guild, Leader of Dundee City Council and Chair of Dundee Waterfront Project Board, said: “We are delighted that Scottish Enterprise have been able to match our commitment to deliver the V&A project by 2014. It is absolutely crucial that when this cultural facility opens, it is set within a proper surrounding context and is well connected to the city centre. This funding will help us to achieve that".

The V&A is a key element of the Dundee Central Waterfront project which is expected to create at least 1,000 jobs over 10 years, generate more than £500 million GVA for Scotland’s economy and generate an additional £270 million of private sector investment in the project.

Dundee Central Waterfront is part of the wider Dundee Waterfront project which extends from the landfall of the railway to the far end of Dundee Port and includes Seabraes Yards, Dundee Central Waterfront , City Quay and Dundee Port.

The Dundee Waterfront Partnership is a joint venture between Scottish Enterprise and Dundee City Council. The project aims to transform the Tayside economy and secure existing and attract new high value service sector jobs. It will help transform the image and perception of the city, further contributing to the economic growth of the region and to Scotland as a whole.

Scottish Enterprise will invest over £33 million in the Dundee Central Waterfont project, matching the funding of partner, Dundee City Council. This injection of accelerated funding will bring Scottish Enterprise’s total investment in the project during 2010-2011 to £5.05 million.

The V&A at Dundee is being delivered by Design Dundee Ltd, a partnership between the Victoria and Albert Museum – the world’s greatest museum of art and design – the University of Dundee, the University of Abertay, Dundee City Council and Scottish Enterprise.

Rich B

June 11th, 2010, 02:11 PM

Great News! So glad that the Scottish Government are so firmly behind the project.

M_Riaz

June 11th, 2010, 05:07 PM

I hear DC Thomson are to close up their Dundee operations with a loss of many jobs, sorry to hear that in these hard times.

Will be a big loss as this company has made many achievements over time.

Rich B

June 11th, 2010, 06:45 PM

I hear DC Thomson are to close up their Dundee operations with a loss of many jobs, sorry to hear that in these hard times.

Will be a big loss as this company has made many achievements over time.

Its only the print works which is being closed and out sourced to China. The rest will remain. Still the loss of another 350 jobs in Dundee is a hard pill to swallow.

Urban Life

June 11th, 2010, 07:16 PM

A further step forward for the V&A project. It's going to be a sizeable engineering challenge regarding the preparatory works, which I presume would include reclaiming land out in the Tay etc. As you pointed out Rich B, its encouraging to see the Scottish Government showing their support throughout this process.

Townie Tam

June 11th, 2010, 07:52 PM

.
The choice is between claiming some land from the river by infill, or building out on what will amount to a pier. The latter will cause fewer potential problems, as it won't affect water flow. It's still a 'wait and see' situation...

Jaydot

June 11th, 2010, 10:32 PM

Yep, was relieved to see to money coming in, noticed on the news yesterday that arts funding is to be cut. I think this project has to go ahead for Dundee's sake!

Townie Tam

June 11th, 2010, 11:46 PM

.
From:-

http://www.planningaidscotland.org.uk/news_more.asp?news_id=12&current_id=1

Broadcaster and PAS Patron Lesley Riddoch to host free public planning debate

Date: Friday 28 May 2010

Embargo: Immediate

Contact: Duncan Thorp 0131 220 9734 / 07989 790 756
duncan@planningaidscotland.org.uk

Broadcaster and PAS Patron Lesley Riddoch to host free public planning debate

Planning Aid for Scotland Patron, Lesley Riddoch, is set to chair a free public debate in Dundee asking “Have we succeeded in putting the ‘folk’ back into planning?”

The event will include a town planner, ‘community enabler’ and representatives from Young Scot and Dundee Civic Form to discuss planning and planning reform and the inclusive principles of the famous Scottish architect, planner and thinker Patrick Geddes, known as the ‘father of town planning’.

Lesley Riddoch said:

“This is an event aimed at anyone who’s ever tried to tackle the authorities over a planning issue large or small and felt mystified – and isolated – in the process. We’d also like to see people who just want more information about how to question development decisions – not as NIMBY protestors but as citizens who believe new developments must benefit from local knowledge and insight to work well and gain local acceptance.”

Petra Biberbach, Chief Executive of Planning Aid for Scotland, said:

“This is a fantastic opportunity for people to debate the planning system, the planning reforms and how people can be put at the centre of the process. It’s an ideal time to learn from the experts in a free and open forum and I would encourage people to book their places now.”

The free event will take place in Dundee on Tuesday 15 June. To book places please call 0131 220 9730 or email events@planningaidscotland.org.uk.

ENDS

Notes to Editors:

1. The event will be held at the Hannah Maclure Centre Cinema, University of Abertay Top Floor, Student Centre, Bell Street, Dundee, DD1 1HP on Tuesday 15 June from 4.45pm – 7pm. For a map click here.

2. Planning Aid for Scotland is a unique, independent and award-winning charity that helps people to shape their communities by engaging in the planning process. PAS is the leading voice on community engagement in planning matters being professional, trusted, impartial and effective. PAS ensures people are involved in the changes which affect their local area and beyond. PAS is a registered charity and a company limited by guarantee, uniquely drawing on the expertise of over 250 experts, most of them professional planners, who provide time and specialist knowledge on a voluntary basis. For more information please see: www.planningaidscotland.org.uk.

2. What do you mean by “planning”? Terms such as “planning”, “planning process” and “the planning system” refer to the regulation of land in towns, cities and the countryside. From house extensions, micro renewables, shopping centres, roads and new towns, to protecting open space and listed buildings, these activities in the ‘built environment’ are known as development and often require planning permission. Planning decides where development should happen, where it should not and how it affects its surroundings. Decisions about planning applications are based on the development plan, prepared by the local council or national park authority. The planning system aims to balance competing demands so that land is used in the public long-term interest. The planning system should help economic growth, protect the environment and improve quality of life. Scotland has recently undergone the biggest reform to its planning system for 60 years, with a strong emphasis on community engagement. See: www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/281542/0084999.pdf.

Now that could be an interesting event...
I wonder what a "community enabler" is? Whether I'm right or wrong, Dundee already has a number of them - and they're all working above and beyond the call of duty in support of local community organisations.

Methinks, perchance, I will apply for tickets...
.

dundeepodcast

June 12th, 2010, 01:04 AM

Its only the print works which is being closed and out sourced to China. The rest will remain. Still the loss of another 350 jobs in Dundee is a hard pill to swallow.

I've been trying to find a source for the mention of the work being sent to China but had no luck. If this is true would this be from the same media and newspaper company who condemned several companies that were based in Dundee or elsewhere when they sent work abroad and hundreds of Dundee jobs were lost. DC's are being a bit hypocritical if they are doing the same.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Townie Tam you quoted

Now that could be an interesting event...
I wonder what a "community enabler" is? Whether I'm right or wrong, Dundee already has a number of them - and they're all working above and beyond the call of duty in support of local community organisations.

Methinks, perchance, I will apply for tickets...

This event I was invited to but sadly due to the time it is happening I can't make it. If the start time had been a bit later I would have attended. Seems a very strange time to me for a public meeting when many will be on their way home from work or have kids to pick up etc. Would have been better with a 6.30 or 7.00pm start like most public or community meetings.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

To SeoulDee apologies for calling you a snob it was just the way i was reading into some of your posts and the way they were coming across. I think good points were made on both sides and from others and one thing I had no intention of coming in here to rock the boat just to debate things which I could have probably done better, must be my college or awful state school education. :grouphug:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thought I would highlight this because this is a fantastic old building http://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/output/2010/06/11/story15208413t0.shtm
Looks like the building that houses Cubic Nightclub (former Circus, After Dark & London) will be put up for sale by the administrators. Been in the building where behind the scenes many of the old items are still visible just wonder if it is sold to someone else as something else what it will become or will companies back off because there is a sitting tenant.

M_Riaz

June 12th, 2010, 01:22 AM

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/10278700.stm)

No decision has yet been taken on where magazines and books will be printed in the future.

The company said it would continue to print its newspapers - The Courier, the Evening Telegraph and The Sunday Post - at its premises on the Kingsway in Dundee.

dundeepodcast

June 12th, 2010, 01:45 AM

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/10278700.stm)

Read that earlier and several other papers plus the TV reports. Just think it's bad that a Dundee born company in the 1800's are selling out it's own people. Also think if what Rich B says is true he must have some kind of inside info, time will tell if my suspicions are correct or not.

Townie Tam

June 12th, 2010, 02:17 AM

.
DC Thomson.

Pre-tax profits to year ending March xxxx,
(Figures in brackets from a different source)

2005 - £50.4M
2006 - £66.8M
2007 - £61.1M (£66.7M)
2008 - £67.5M (£65.0M)
2009 - £32.5M

Even though profits fell, the controlling Thomson family paid themselves £14.5m in dividends for the year, up from £13.8m in 2008.

My warped sense of logic screams at me that if profits are halved, dividends must be cut proportionately, not increased.

Spot any reason for redundancies?

Links:-

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/markets/article.html?in_article_id=498371&in_page_id=3

http://www.heraldscotland.com/dc-thomson-bucks-the-trend-to-post-rise-in-sales-and-profits-1.899723

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-10086083.html

http://business.scotsman.com/medialeisure/DC-Thomson-buoyed-by-Aberdeen.3667248.jp

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/2795107/Britains-biggest-private-companies-Stars-that-make-the-headlines.html

SeoulDee

June 13th, 2010, 04:08 PM

Rich B

June 13th, 2010, 06:55 PM

Dundeepodcast, It was my neighbour who works for DC Thompson who told me the printing was being outsourced to China. That's as much as I know.

The Duke

June 15th, 2010, 02:44 PM

Seems the Apex Hotel is getting a spruce up. The faded cedar cladding is now being painted Dark Charcoal/Black. Not before time ;-)

Urban Life

June 15th, 2010, 06:15 PM

The Duke- thanks for info on Apex Hotel. The state of the cladding was an embarassment for the location it commands. Although not a major development, it keeps things fresh nonetheless.

djmacdonald73

June 15th, 2010, 09:50 PM

Good news about the Apex, not that big a development but it`ll make a MASSIVE difference to the way it looks...still can`t believe someone actually thought the original cladding was a good idea!

Any idea of when it`s going to happen?

The Duke

June 15th, 2010, 11:17 PM

It has just started this week. Angus Dec I think have the contract. They are cleaning and then priming with a grey paint.

djmacdonald73

June 16th, 2010, 09:15 AM

Excellent news, I always felt the "shoddy" look of the hotel exterior let the whole area down. I would have went for white myself but ANY colour that covers that cladding will be an improvement!

dufc1909

June 17th, 2010, 11:04 AM

Submitted this week at Dundee:

Proposal of application notice - Erection of food store and petrol filling station, with associated car parking landscaping and infrastructure including access roads.

Former N C R (Scotland) Ltd
Kingsway West
Dundee

Dundonian

June 17th, 2010, 02:42 PM

The Apex hotel, is in effect, a big square box. Having Uniform windows and floors, there wasn't much for it to be admired as an architectural delight, engineering structure or iconic building.

However, the cladding gave the building something 'a little bit different'. Although i hear that the wood didn't quiet age the way it was meant to, i still liked the cladding. It was unique to the building, it broke up the uniformity of it all. Of course, it didn't all weather at the same rate due to some sides receiving more sunshine than others (the north face pretty much gets none). But that’s what i liked about it.

How and ever, i have seen the painted cladding at the moment. I hope that is not the finished look and that is only an undercoat. Its currently a very dark shade, of what i can only describe as 'jobbie'. It looks terrible!

Even if they do paint it white or a more lighter colour, it is still going to be a big uniform structure with nothing to break it up. It’s going to look like a multi storey car park with windows.

A few number of people hated it. A slightly larger number of few people liked it (like me) and the majority of people didn't really care either way and wouldn’t have even been able to tell you what the original finish on the Apex was to begin with!

It seems once that again that the influence of an extreme, negative few have had their way.

Lets not even begin to think of the cost of it. Wonder whos paying for it......

Its a loss to Dundee in my opinion. :ohno:

Urban Life

June 17th, 2010, 07:10 PM

Some more info to add to dufc1909's update on ASDA's plan for the old NCR site.

From The Courier.

ASDA is poised to lodge a detailed planning application for its proposed £24million superstore on the former NCR site at Wester Gourdie, though the result of a legal challenge to the development is still up in the air.

The supermarket giant and its local project partner have this week submitted a proposal of application notice to Dundee City Council, giving advance warning of their intention to proceed with a full planning application after the summer.

The notice sets in train a 12-week community consultation period, which will include a public exhibition on the plans for a food store, cafe and petrol filling staion.

The project has already received outline planning consent, a decision challenged by supermarket chain Tesco, which sought a judicial review on the matter.

Against this background, ASDA has decided to push on with its plans, to avoid further delays if it is given the green light by the court.

"Despite what appear to be attempts by a competitor to delay our investment in Dundee, ASDA and Macdonald Estates have decided to push ahead with our plans for the former NCR site by submitting a new full planning application to DCC.

We remain entirely committed to bringing this multi-million investment to Dundee and creating up to 480 new employment opportunities at the store, as well as additional jobs during the development and construction of the store"

Urban Life

June 17th, 2010, 07:44 PM

Help Please! Does anyone know how to post photos onto this thread from Flickr? I'm trying to get some photo updates for everyone to see how projects in Dundee are progressing, which would be good for the thread. PM me with solutions. Any tips would be much appreciated Thanks :)

djmacdonald73

June 17th, 2010, 09:20 PM

I see The Bread has now closed it`s doors for good, after being bought by Abertay Uni. I`m guessing they`ll try to purchase the flats above it as well, with a view to tearing it all down and building on the land.

Noticed as well, when I was walking past today, the workmen have finished working on Abertays Centre of Excellence and have now moved on to the side of the main building, no idea what they`re doing though.

Townie Tam

June 17th, 2010, 10:40 PM

.
Hi Urban Life.
(For you and anyone else.)

Click on the "Advanced" button underneath the "Quick Reply" text box below.
When that page opens up, type your bumf then, on the line where you want your photo to be, click on the wee icon above the text box that has a representation of a hill and a black sun on it. (If you hold your cursor over that icon, a wee box with the words "Insert image" should appear.)

In the box that appears at the top of the page, paste the URL of the image you want in your post then click OK in that box. You can then continue typing after that line if you want. You can always click on"Preview Post" to see what it looks like then edit it accordingly (previewing) until you want to post. Then click on "Submit Reply".

8=)

Urban Life

June 18th, 2010, 06:07 PM

Photo link below of Dundee House I took yesterday. (Hopefully you can see it.)

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7735/dscn01150001.jpg

Do you think the will building add to the Westport part of Town?

Also from Evening Tele:

The leader of Dundee City Council today said “good progress” is being made in the construction of its new headquarters.
The £34 million Dundee House is being built on the North Lindsay Street site by main contractor Bovis Lend Lease.
And the completion of a major phase of work was marked today with a topping out ceremony involving council and construction company officials.

Administration leader Councillor Ken Guild said, “Good progress is being made on the new Dundee House.

“The offices will include a new flagship customer centre that will underline the council’s commitment to modernising contact with the public.”

A new roof for Dundee House is being installed by BriggsAmasco using a special waterproofing system developed by the company, which was established in Arbroath by William Briggs in 1865.

The building is scheduled for completion early next year.

#P.S Thanks for the image posting tip Townie Tam- for some reason
technology isn't playing ball! Will work on it:P

Townie Tam

June 18th, 2010, 08:04 PM

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7735/dscn01150001.jpg

You can also display a photo by typing
url of your photo

8=)

Rich B

June 18th, 2010, 11:40 PM

djmacdonald73

June 21st, 2010, 02:46 PM

I agree, I think it`ll be pretty impressive once it`s finished, looking forward to seeing it in a more completed stage in the months to come.

And on the plus side, surely if it`s ready for completion early next year, Tayside House should start coming down next year too? :cheers:

What were the plans for a public space on North Lindsay street?

Rich B

June 21st, 2010, 04:48 PM

The plans were to include a new public plaza adjacent to the new building (over existing section of north lindsay street and some of the car park opposite). I think the idea was that the opened up arches of the original building would create an open loggia and link between two new public spaces (the other being in front of where the proposed overgate extension was to be sited). The original drawings and design for Dundee House and the external space can still be seen in Tayside House reception.

djmacdonald73

June 21st, 2010, 09:02 PM

Cheers for the info, might take a look in next time I`m going to the Olympia.

adammccall

June 24th, 2010, 04:02 PM

Quick question.. I've noticed this thread has moved to the new "Glasgow Urbanity" forum.... Does this belong in here?

djmacdonald73

June 25th, 2010, 06:45 PM

Council ‘no comment’ over V&A

Dundee City Council today refused to say whether major projects, including the much-hyped V&A museum and a replacement for the ageing Olympia Leisure Centre, will be safe from cuts.
As the council’s finance staff struggle to find ways of delivering the city’s services within an ever-shrinking budget, the Evening Telegraph asked the local authority for assurances that major capital schemes which might be expected to play a huge part in the city’s regeneration, would still be going ahead.
But policy and resources convener Councillor Willie Sawers said they would not be rushed into making snap decisions about spending policy.

Councillor Sawers added, “As far as longer-term building projects are concerned, no decisions have been made and will not be made until the capital programme is updated early next year.”

The local authority is faced with making £15million in savings next year in an eye-watering financial squeeze that will almost certainly lead to hundreds of jobs losses.

At the same time, the council has committed itself to playing a role in the £45million V&A at Dundee museum project and a new £30million replacement for Olympia.

The museum will form a central part of the Dundee Central Waterfront Development programme, which is seen as key to restoring the city’s fortunes.

Almost every other Scottish local authority has already been at work on setting budgets and most have identified where the axe will fall.

Councillor Sawers said, “The city council is continuing to invest millions of pounds in Dundee, providing jobs, investing in the local construction industry and helping the local economy. In the current financial year, for example, we are spending almost £80 million on improving the infrastructure of the city.

“Work on the regeneration of the Waterfront is gathering pace with the current £6 million project to realign the bridge ramps adding to the progress so far.

“Our £200 million investment programme for Dundee’s council house stock is also being implemented with the aim of meeting the Scottish Housing Quality Standard by 2015, providing our tenants with improved homes. We are also building new council houses and this is also providing local jobs and helping the city's economy.”

The council is planning to spend a total of £30million on a project to replace the Olympia Leisure Centre and has lodged an application with sportscotland for a grant of £3million towards the total.

The plan includes a new leisure centre incorporating an Olympic-sized 50m swimming pool and a linked multi-storey car park for 500 vehicles.

Was getting a bit worried reading this, if this was to happen along with the U-turn on tax breaks for video games companies, it would be extremely bad news for Dundee. Part of me is hoping it`s just idle speculation on the part of DC Thompsons. What`s everyone else`s thoughts?

Townie Tam

June 25th, 2010, 07:28 PM

.
I think there would be hell to pay if the Allan Street baths were cancelled as a result of a financial crisis.

http://freespace.virgin.net/b.massie/2010/NewBaths.jpg

For well over 100 years, Dundee has had a swimming tradition. You only have to look at the 1912 map of Dundee at:-

http://www.nls.uk/maps/atlas/bartholomew/page.cfm?id=1208

to see four swimming facilities: the original "Shorers" at the docks, Lochee Baths, a common good asset provided by the Cox Family (like the Lochee Library) and the open air bathing pond adjacent to Magdalene Green Station.

One major mistake has already been made towards the end of the 20th century in respect of swimming facilities in Dundee - the lack of an Olympic size pool at the "Olympia". Ironic or what?

If the replacement for Olympia were shelved, the current administration would not be long for this world...

BTW: with a nod in the direction of Ye Amphibious Ancients, the fourth facility is the River Tay...

BTW 2: Can I just point out that I am not entering into, did not start, and will continue to ignore, this Dundee/Glasgow spat?

Thank you; now back to your scheduled programme.

8=)

Townie Tam

June 26th, 2010, 07:25 AM

.
http://freespace.virgin.net/b.massie/2010/CustomHouse.jpg

From The Courier, at:-

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2010/06/26/newsstory15282851t0.asp

Hotel chain close to Customs House deal

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2010/06/26/images/CUST.jpeg

NEGOTIATIONS ARE under way for a major hotel chain to buy one of Dundee’s most iconic waterfront buildings.

The Grade A Customs House (pictured) on the waterfront is up for sale but a major hotel has also ready expressed interest in purchasing the 28,000 sq foot building.

The hotel could have as many as 80 bedrooms, a restaurant and would be sited just 300 yards from the planned Victoria and Albert Museum.

Their interest in acquiring the building from current owner Unicorn Property Group is so strong that the sale is currently in a period of lockout, meaning that negotiations will not take place with any other parties until a final decision has been reached.

Unicorn Property Group director Tim Allan said, “During this period, up until the end of August, we are happy to show the building to any party but we won’t enter into any serious negotiations.

“A major hotel chain is currently looking at the Customs House in due diligence.”

Unicorn describes the building as the “best hotel opportunity” in Tayside on its website and Mr Allan said it will complement the city’s ongoing waterfront redevelopment.

“We think the waterfront is progressing very well and what it needs is a bit more of an offering in the hotel and leisure retail area and we are confident that the colleagues we are trying to work with will achieve this.”

Unicorn Property Group bought the building as part of land it purchased from Forth Ports in 2006.

The building also comes with 40 parking spaces.

“We are primarily residential and commercial office developers and we have no real desire to run a hotel, which is why we are looking for someone else to come in,” said Mr Allan.

He added that a quality restaurant would be “fundamental” to the success of any hotel development.

Customs House was built in 1842/43 by Dundee Harbour engineer James Leslie and John Taylor, surveyor of buildings for HM Customs.

© All copyright D C Thomson & Co Ltd., 2010

djmacdonald73

June 26th, 2010, 12:14 PM

I notice that the Customs House article mentions that it IS situated near the planned V&A Museum, that`s a bit reassuring at least.

SeoulDee

June 26th, 2010, 12:16 PM

If the new Olympia was scrapped, they would have to retain the current one, which would effectively knock the whole waterfront development on the head. They wouldn't be able to leave the city without a swimming pool. Even if it goes ahead, they will surely have to wait until the new one is built before demolishing the old one.

Rich B

June 26th, 2010, 02:31 PM

I heard they had to save about £15 million, if that is the case they should build the new pool without the multi storey car park (some people will just have to walk, tough) saving £7 million. It sounds that the council are optimistic that they will have £9 million for a new station by 2014, if that is the case that could be put on hold also saving the council £16 million and total and allowing waterfront to progress.

djmacdonald73

June 26th, 2010, 08:29 PM

Don`t suppose anyone`s heard any rumours as to who the major hotel chain interested in Customs House is?

Luke Nohands

June 27th, 2010, 12:11 AM

Don`t suppose anyone`s heard any rumours as to who the major hotel chain interested in Customs House is?

No idea but if you look around, most of the big ones already have a presence in the area and De Havilland at another site, I would stab at Radisson maybe a name in the hat?

Townie Tam

June 27th, 2010, 08:46 AM

.
I wonder if Hilton could be looking at it as a replacement for their present, much loved, 'iconic' building?

I'll post here, the graphic and some comments I posted on page 45 of this thread:-

http://freespace.virgin.net/b.massie/2010/V&A%20380.jpg

Les Banks, the planning officer overseeing the Central Waterfront project, gave a presentation to the City Centre & Harbour Community last week (Thursday).
He confirmed that the V&A will be built, either on landfill or on a pier (which would cause no problems with the flow of the river), to the south of Craig Pier/Discovery Quay.

It was pointed out to Les that the V&A, potentially the most important building of the Central waterfront, would not be visible from the large civic space; it would only be (partially) visible down Union Street.
Les was asked if, because of the V&A's location, the plan to have that large hotel building to the right (east) of Discovery Quay would be scrapped. It seems that that particular site is still earmarked for a hotel...

I am not an architect. I am not a civil engineer. I am a Dundonian who is passionate about my home town. Call me a pleb if you will but I think that if you're going to provide a site for what is hoped to be an "iconic" building, then you should be making that building as visible as possible.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with that particular site...

The Duke

June 27th, 2010, 09:02 AM

No idea but if you look around, most of the big ones already have a presence in the area and De Havilland at another site, I would stab at Radisson maybe a name in the hat?

No one has mentioned Malmaison. Choosing historical buildings and converting them into boutique hotels is something they do very well

dufc1909

June 27th, 2010, 09:16 AM

There is still the Tay hotel awaiting to be developed. Any news on that.

Is there anything happening with the proposed developement opposite the custums house . . .the rear of the Seagate bus station ?

Townie Tam

June 27th, 2010, 01:06 PM

.
There are two approved applications for the Tay Hotel -

07/00072/FUL
07/00073/LBC

http://freespace.virgin.net/b.massie/TayHotel-SW.png

Details of these applications can be found at:-

http://bwarrant.dundeecity.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?keyval=JCD8VTGCP5000&searchtype=PROPERTY&module=P3

http://bwarrant.dundeecity.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?keyval=JCD9OTGCP5000&searchtype=PROPERTY&module=P3

If you scroll down to the bottom of those pages, you will find a link, "View Associated Documents". Click on that and you can then access PDFs of plans, elevations, etc.

The architects are Nicoll Russell, for M.E.C. SERVICES (INTERNATIONAL) LIMITED, a company run by Michael Carolan, who has various property interests in the city. Limited details on the company can be found at:-

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/152781ca554283c36feb32d2e3975b42/compdetails

The Boy David

June 27th, 2010, 08:05 PM

Alright chaps, this thread's been moved to the Scotland section.

I've also got rid of some the posts - no need to argue about things like that. We all smell great. I use Radox :)

Urban Life

June 28th, 2010, 07:41 PM

Time will tell which hotel chain is interested in Customs House. With the proposed West Marketgait mixed retail development in mind also- does anyone think some interesting and reputable hotels could be attracted by the Dundee Waterfront redevelopment? I think the V&A will be a huge incentive for new hotels to come into the city. A recent Courier article comparing Bilbao and Dundee highlighted the hotel sector in Bilbao booming thanks to the 'Guggenheim Effect'. It would be great if the city could attract a higher standard of hotels. I'll throw some names in the hat -something like the Marriot/Jury's Inn??

austinwiseman

June 30th, 2010, 08:42 AM

i have been in contact with JCV Aussi....They are leading with architectural .,,.columns for bunglows....today i have great luxury outlook of my bunglow. thanks jcv.com.au/
:cheers1:

Urban Life

June 30th, 2010, 07:02 PM

An interesting read documenting the impact a world class museum can have on a city. Plus some positive comments for Dundee also! :)

From The Courier

Picture a city built on a river — a city whose wealth was built on shipbuilding and heavy industries, but which has fallen on hard times with their decline. Unemployment is high and the perception of outsiders is not flattering. They don't see a vibrant city bristling with potential — just an area of grey, depressing urban decay.

Now look ahead less than 20 years. A major water improvement project has cleaned up the river, and the city, which boasts two universities, has reinvented itself as a high-tech hotspot. A new technology park has been built and the old dockland area is being redeveloped, winning architectural plaudits.

More importantly, the city has had the vision to kickstart its economy by reinventing itself as a cultural hub. In doing so, it has attracted some of the world's leading architects and much of the regeneration has focused on a major project — the building of an iconic waterside museum that draws around a million visitors every year, 80% drawn from outside the local area.

And the city has scored something of a coup by becoming one of the few locations on earth to boast a building designed by internationally-renowned architect Frank Gehry.

With Gehry's Maggie's Centre sitting in the grounds of Ninewells Hospital and plans to bring an outpost of the Victoria and Albert Museum to Dundee, you could be forgiven for thinking this is an optimistic glimpse of the city on the Tay a few years down the line.

You would be wrong, though.

Welcome to Bilbao, Spain's fourth largest city and home of the Gehry-designed Guggenheim Museum.

From a standing start, Bilbao has become a must-see for cultural tourists.

Tourism was virtually non-existent in the city before the Guggenheim opened in 1997. By the museum's 10th anniversary it made up five percent of the local economy.

Over the same period, the number of visitors leapt from 169,000 each year to 623,000. No surprise, then, that eight new hotels had to open to cope with the demand.

Last year alone, the Guggenheim is credited with attracting around €205 million to the region and supporting more than 3600 jobs.

And what Bilbao has done, Dundee can do, albeit on a smaller scale.

Indeed, according to Juan Alayo, director of urban regeneration company Bilbao Ria 2000, the city on the Tay has even more going for it.

"With institutions such as Dundee Contemporary Arts well established, there's already a strong precedent," he is on record as saying. "It will be easier to make a successful enterprise, because it builds on an enormous education and design background."

He has backed Dundee's desire for a building that "makes a statement of people's ambition and confidence."

Where the Guggenheim has restored civic pride in Bilbao, the winner of the architectural prize for the V&A in Dundee should produce a statement of the city — "a piece that animates the waterfront and can become an image of Dundee."

However, he is quick to point out that Bilbao is not a one-trick pony and there is no easy formula for the success it has enjoyed.

Though the Guggenheim has become central to Bilbao's renewal, it is part of a much wider regeneration project.

But so it will be in Dundee, where the V&A will sit proudly, jutting out into the Tay as the centrepiece of the waterfront and part of the city's ongoing regeneration process.

Dr Beatriz Plaza, from the faculty of economics at the University of the Basque Country, is something of an expert on the so-called "Bilbao effect" — the way one daringly-designed building can transform the fortunes of an entire city.

In her study on the phenomenon, she says: "while the Guggenheim Museum Bilbao was a costly venture, its return on investment (not including the value of the permanent art collection) was complete as early as seven years after opening."

She goes on: "in the end, we are talking about highly costly public investments that must generate either a clear social or economic return on investment. The Guggenheim Museum Bilbao was a very risky project, but it is on the right track to being worth the huge risk and investment."

In a recent visit to Dundee, she also pointed out that Dundee has something that Bilbao doesn't — a naturally beautiful setting.

One further point to remember: in Bilbao, they had to fight every step of the way to push the Guggenheim plans through, with many considering it madness to throw money at a museum when times were hard.

While the people of Dundee may have been initially sceptical about the likelihood of the V&A plans coming to fruition, their doubts have largely been overcome and the project now prompts a new air of excitement and optimism.

If goodwill and enthusiasm can win the day, Dundee is already streets ahead.

© All copyright D C Thomson & Co Ltd., 2010

Rich B

July 3rd, 2010, 12:39 PM

according to yesterday's courier, dundee university has received a £4.9 million grant to build a new £12.5 million life sciences research centre on the hawkhill by wellcome trust building.

great news!

Urban Life

July 3rd, 2010, 03:03 PM

Thanks for that news Rich B - I noticed the article on the grant, but I didn't realise a new building was to be built. This will hopefully further enhance the life sciences industry in Dundee.

Visitor Numbers In Dundee

On a seperate note, according to last nights Tele, it appears city tourism representatives are positive of a bumper summer season for visitor numbers in Dundee. With increases reported across the city's main attractions, the refurbished McManus Galleries has welcomed nearly 100,000 people since it re-opened, with 18,000 people in the last month. Hopefully this is a good sign that more and more tourists consider Dundee as a worthwhile destination to visit. With the proposed V&A and waterfront project, tourist numbers can only be boosted further.

Does anyone think the city can become an even more highly popular destination for both foreign and domestic tourists- thanks to the ongoing redevelopments?

Ahhhh

July 3rd, 2010, 06:47 PM

Well, I haven't been to Dundee for quite a while, other than stopping in Tesco on the way to Aberdeen...

A couple of weeks ago my other half actually suggested that we stop off in the city centre on our way up north again, for some lunch. I had haggis stovies in the McManus, and it was absolutely brilliant :)

We'll be revisiting Dundee just for those stovies...

adammccall

July 8th, 2010, 10:42 PM

Proposed Go-Kart Centre:

http://bwarrant.dundeecity.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=L58DDOGC03700&searchtype=WEEKLY

Townie Tam

July 9th, 2010, 08:20 AM

.
These are some snippets from today's Courier:-
______________________________________________________

Victoria and Albert Museum project inspires new optimism

The potential economic impact of a Dundee branch of the Victoria and Albert Museum is already being felt in the city's commercial property market, it has been claimed.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/img/photos/biz/photo_3954_wide_crop.jpg
The Victoria and Albert Museum in London.

Ric Russell, of Broughty Ferry architectural firm Nicoll Russell, told The Courier that possible partners for the redevelopment of the former Tay Hotel had already come forward on the strength of the museum proposals.

The upgrading of the building, previously branded an "eyesore" and a "blight" on the city's landscape, was approved in October after almost two years of wrangling with Historic Scotland.
[snip]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/47/Tay_Hotel.jpg

"Having spoken to my client relatively recently, the update is that we have had some statements of interest from potential partners in terms of a joint development," Mr Russell said.

"There have been some expressions of interest in terms of the building, which is thought by the client to have come about on the back of the V&A development.

"I think it shows the upsurge in confidence that the V&A might bring and that is quite significant to the city.

"I'm sure potential partners have visited the building but there's nothing concrete at the present time."
[snip]

Jobs and visitors

It has been estimated that the V&A — costing an estimated £45 million — will create around 900 jobs and attract more than 500,000 visitors to Dundee, providing a multi-million-pound boost to the local economy.

City leaders regard the museum project as a keystone in the extensive redevelopment of the wider waterfront area.

Read the whole article at:-
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/Community/Heritage-and-History/article/2412/victoria-and-albert-museum-project-inspires-new-optimism.html

"City leaders regard the museum project as a keystone in the extensive redevelopment of the wider waterfront area."

http://freespace.virgin.net/b.massie/2010/Aug_08.026Crop.jpg

A "keystone" that will be hidden by a hotel right in front of it, masking it from the public "open space". It was confirmed by Les Banks at the AGM of the CC&HCC in May 2010 that Development Plot 7 is still earmarked for a hotel.

A "keystone" that will have no buses passing by its entrance. At one of his Waterfront Update presentations to the CC&HCC, Mike Galloway conﬁrmed that buses will not actually enter the waterfront area but will use the bus lanes in Dock Street, rather than using the westbound boulevard nearer the river.

It's time that "City leaders" paused for a moment and had a rethink on certain elements of the waterfront redevelopment, like Development Plot 7, and public transport routing, to ensure that the jewel in the crown is no longer that development plot adjacent to Discovery Quay (as described by former Economic Development Convenor Joe Morrow) but IS the V&A.