rich men make money. Slaves ask for money.

this info has you really foaming at the mouth. so who's the slave and who is the rich. your analogy is off anyway

ive asked u to oint out how forbes isnt a bigoted magazine and u have ofered nothing but your opinion. im still waiting.

i dont have time to go back and pull up all your statements. your attitude and those of others of your kind are evident by your reaction to this story, first for months you guys denied the idea that dangote was a billionaire and now instead of just recognizing it, all one hears is 'here's a bone' 'a cookie' etc. why is listing the fact that dangote a billionaire so repulsive to u. anyway dont answer. i now y

Don't you understand that the basis of your argument of Forbes being "racist" was the fact that people like Dangote weren't recognized. Well guess what now he is. I guess just Forbes had an epiphany to include Dangote.

No you don't have time, because you wouldn't be able to find anything. Only because I don't cry out racism every chance I get doesn't make me an apartheid supporter. Also read again what I've written. I never actually denied that Dangote wasn't a billionaire, I did reject claims that it was somehow a Forbes conspiracy to put Nigerians or black people down. You do realize that this list includes over 500 people, as it ever come down to you that they mistakenly left people out due to lack of information? Or maybe they have the available information this year. I'm not repulsed by anyone from any nation being included, but this constant finger pointing and thinking that its all hidden act against Nigeria is ridiculous. This is also a general trend, everytime Nigeria doesn't bode well in a particular survey, ranking or statistics it has to be biased.

And people wonder why so many countries don't have their own forum...If this thread is any indication of the moderation that would be involved I don't blame "the powers that be" for refusing.

And people wonder why so many countries don't have their own forum...If this thread is any indication of the moderation that would be involved I don't blame "the powers that be" for refusing.

What are you insinuating?
Most of you guys just aren`t happy that there are some others in the know. You just want Nigerians to keep quiet and watch you badmouth them

Don't you understand that the basis of your argument of Forbes being "racist" was the fact that people like Dangote weren't recognized. Well guess what now he is. I guess just Forbes had an epiphany to include Dangote.

.

actually that wasnt the basis of why i said forbes was racist. i told you i have read the magazine for years and found many instances that support my view. the dangote snub was merely one more incident, and frankly didnt factor in my conclusion. thier coverage of people like tiger woods, michael chin, africa and blacks in general. thier articles in the 90s that focused on the inferiority of blacks and thier culture (i.e. tha haiti is the poorest carribean country because it is the "blackest" so to speak), formed my opinion of the magazine

i dont get why africans wanting to see black africans listed on forbes has caused such emotional outbursts in you and others in this thread

I think both sides are blowing things way out of proportion. I hate it when some forumers whine and moan and I even hate it more when others whine and moan that people are whining and moaning when in fact they are doing what they are complaining about!

a post left by someone on another blog about dangote

A tribute to the spirit of enterprise. This man is too humble.

He was sat next to me on an economy class seat on a flight from Lagos to London in 2005 or so. When I realised who he was and struck up a conversation with him and asked him why he was not flying first class, he laughed and retorted that do the people who fly first class get to London before everyone else.

It was a memorable encounter and his humility left such an impression on me.I am pleased 4 him.

I think both sides are blowing things way out of proportion. I hate it when some forumers whine and moan and I even hate it more when others whine and moan that people are whining and moaning when in fact they are doing what they are complaining about!

Kinda like what you're doing now?

Kinda like what you're doing now?

You Just did it. Cos you're whining that he's whining that people whine that people are whining and moaning.

You Just did it. Cos you're whining that he's whining that people whine that people are whining and moaning.

You just did it too. Because you're whining that I'm whining that he's whining about people whining.

What are you insinuating?
Most of you guys just aren`t happy that there are some others in the know. You just want Nigerians to keep quiet and watch you badmouth them

Wtf? Where in the name of goodness did you come with that? Your response just proves my point. That point being that people seriously need to start growing up. Sure, the richest man in Africa is a Nigerian, congrats! South Africa has 3 billionaires on the list, good for them! Just know that an immature forum is a shunned forum (it's happened once before).

I think both sides are blowing things way out of proportion. I hate it when some forumers whine and moan and I even hate it more when others whine and moan that people are whining and moaning when in fact they are doing what they are complaining about!


Then we shouldn`t all open our minds anymore, you should never expect to see a forum where there are no arguments, never. Everybody have got something to say from his/her own perspective. Saying someone is whining or childish or arguing blindly is way out of proportion. It would not have gotten to this stage if we all respect each other base on their opinions no matter how childish, blind or amteurish it may sound

And people wonder why so many countries don't have their own forum...If this thread is any indication of the moderation that would be involved I don't blame "the powers that be" for refusing.

Only somebody that is daft will not read between the lines of your statement above. You were not direct or specific but I sure know the set of people you are refering to. So zip it

This is exactly why no other African country other than SA (and Morocco) should have their own forum. Pathetic.

For Crying out loud, stop venting anger.

What exactly is the issue here? Just look over what you and other forumers have posted and tell me who is immature. Just because you are incapable of reasoning does not make people immature.

This just shows why some countries should not have their own forums.
When legitimate issues are bought up and backed with facts and research, it is dismissed as "Nationalisitc" etc.

This whole thread has been dominated by arguments from a lot of people. Nigerians stating facts as to why some notable businessmen should be on the Forbes list, and then calling the magazine racist. Now looking at the information that were used to back these arguments, and then looking at the criticism and doubts from other forumers, it is evident that if a billionaire that was only noted for his wealth a couple of days ago, has been investing in billion dollar deals, then what would be so wrong as to state this and deem that there is something wrong with the magazine.

The very people without facts to disprove this would be the immature and unintelligent ones, afterall at the end of the day the arguments were indeed correct and Dangote should have been listed in Forbes rich list, whilst the arguments against were on the wrong. One can chose to acknowledge this, or those in the wrong can make a bold stake and claim to be mature.

But I am someone that believes in Facts and Statistics and I have found at the end of the day, these are the things that really make things stick. One could make a claim that there has been immaturity on my part or in other forumers, and yes there has been immaturity but the Facts lay in the preceding pages, so there is nothing really to formulate or try and fabricate.

South Africa and Morocco have forums simply because of their markets, and in the future we will try and prove that there are other emerging and even more active markets in Angola, Egypt, Nigeria etc and with this then we can achieve a forum. That is the reality.

If one chooses to convince himself or herself that they are more mature when they are not as testimony to this thread itself, then it is in their own backwardness

This is exactly why no other African country other than SA (and Morocco) should have their own forum. Pathetic.

Then Let them keep the sub forum. A country`s Economy Prowess don`t lie on having a sub forum on SSC.

For Crying out loud, stop venting anger.

What exactly is the issue here? Just look over what you and other forumers have posted and tell me who is immature. Just because you are incapable of reasoning does not make people immature.

This just shows why some countries should not have their own forums.
When legitimate issues are bought up and backed with facts and research, it is dismissed as "Nationalisitc" etc.

This whole thread has been dominated by arguments from a lot of people. Nigerians stating facts as to why some notable businessmen should be on the Forbes list, and then calling the magazine racist. Now looking at the information that were used to back these arguments, and then looking at the criticism and doubts from other forumers, it is evident that if a billionaire that was only noted for his wealth a couple of days ago, has been investing in billion dollar deals, then what would be so wrong as to state this and deem that there is something wrong with the magazine.

The very people without facts to disprove this would be the immature and unintelligent ones, afterall at the end of the day the arguments were indeed correct and Dangote should have been listed in Forbes rich list, whilst the arguments against were on the wrong. One can chose to acknowledge this, or those in the wrong can make a bold stake and claim to be mature.

But I am someone that believes in Facts and Statistics and I have found at the end of the day, these are the things that really make things stick. One could make a claim that there has been immaturity on my part or in other forumers, and yes there has been immaturity but the Facts lay in the preceding pages, so there is nothing really to formulate or try and fabricate.

South Africa and Morocco have forums simply because of their markets, and in the future we will try and prove that there are other emerging and even more active markets in Angola, Egypt, Nigeria etc and with this then we can achieve a forum. That is the reality.

If one chooses to convince himself or herself that they are more mature when they are not as testimony to this thread itself, then it is in their own backwardness

Tbite you are right but this is how I see it

SSC is a place were we try to share ideas, like Educational Exchange programmes but we are not all bound to agree to all ideas being suggested by your fellow forumers thus arguments arise and the fact that we are not doing this physically makes things worse beacuse a lot of people can misinterprete write-ups and get angry.

But my main argument is that No matter what any person say be it childish, blind, amteurish or even moaning and whining like some people put it, we should at least see it as that person`s point of view and respect it.

Heated Arguments can never be over-ruled in a Gathering of Young Intelligent Minds. We all see things from different perspectives based on the fact that we all grew up from different part of the world.

"One man`s food is another Man`s Poison" This is a food for thought!!!

This is exactly why no other African country other than SA (and Morocco) should have their own forum. Pathetic.

yeah because SA and moroccans are the most mature. i dont know why guys on here even clamor for a forum. egypt will soon surpass SA as the largest economy and nigeria will follow after that. having their own forum is simply a beauty contest and holds zero value

anywa, speaking of arogance, here is donal trump on his wealth:

Forbes pegs Trump, who today presides over a real estate, entertainment and merchandising empire, as worth $3 billion. Nonetheless, The Donald disputes our figure: "I'm worth $7 billion.

http://omg.yahoo.com/celebrity-billionaires/news/7236

look could u'z lot go n read the topic o the thread n stp spoilin the thread

look could u'z lot go n read the topic o the thread n stp spoilin the thread

It says Africa's wealthiest people & biggest companies - Forbes.

Are you trying to make a point here?

Originally Posted by Jakes1
but only one is truly african - yes, the others were born on african soil. they are white euro trash

you said it


Do you deny the right for white or coloured South Africa to call themselves African...... Are you saying that you will only recognise the black Nigerian and South African businessmen as African businessmen and that the others are mere tourists that need to leave....

This is greatly offensive and is boardering on discrimination..... All who are born from the lands of Africa, in my oppinion, are most certainly AFRICAN. Its an honour that is NOT decided by external opinion but by the bearer of this identity.

I do not deny your views on South Africans, but it is beyond me for someone to deny someone else their EXISTANCE.

Do you deny the right for white or coloured South Africa to call themselves African...... Are you saying that you will only recognise the black Nigerian and South African businessmen as African businessmen and that the others are mere tourists that need to leave....

This is greatly offensive and is boardering on discrimination..... All who are born from the lands of Africa, in my oppinion, are most certainly AFRICAN. Its an honour that is NOT decided by external opinion but by the bearer of this identity.

I do not deny your views on South Africans, but it is beyond me for someone to deny someone else their EXISTANCE.

Truth! And people need to understand that.

Yes, luckily black africans can claim never to have exploited their fellow africans... or can they?

Men exploit men. Thats what humanity does. And if you cry victim the entire time, you will remain a victim.
If someone tries to distort the historical record, the record should be set straight. That's not crying victim, that's just preserving history. It's interesting to see how many white people think its okay to preserve their history, but if blacks want to preserves their's then there is somehow a problem.

@Alex roney
u can laugh all u want my man. . .but south africa was a genocidal racist country,for most of its history of white rule till right about 1994. . . .thats the fact. . .if u want me to accept those so called white billionaires then u must be willing to accept any millions of dollars that mugabe and his cronies own in zimbabwe. . . .as legitimate. . .

funny how when black people point out historical facts. . .we are called racist. . . :applause: At least the blacks on the list made their money honestly!

LOL!

What are you trying to say, that all blacks amke their mony by hustlin' and pimpin'?



:jk:

Do you deny the right for white or coloured South Africa to call themselves African...... Are you saying that you will only recognise the black Nigerian and South African businessmen as African businessmen and that the others are mere tourists that need to leave....

This is greatly offensive and is boardering on discrimination..... All who are born from the lands of Africa, in my oppinion, are most certainly AFRICAN. Its an honour that is NOT decided by external opinion but by the bearer of this identity.

I do not deny your views on South Africans, but it is beyond me for someone to deny someone else their EXISTANCE.

I agree with you 100% it is discrimination

i'm saying we should talk bout way the topic states not arguing about all these rights n wrongs

Only somebody that is daft will not read between the lines of your statement above. You were not direct or specific but I sure know the set of people you are refering to. So zip it

Hahahaha, you believe that Dr. Phil. Honestly...you've just proven my point.

Where do Sol Kerzner and Tokyo Sexwale fit in? Are they on that list at all?

I think the issue here is the "Quoting of Companies" etc, because apparently according to a source Forbes does snapshots of balance sheets on these and with that determines the net worth.

Perhaps Forbes has a greater trouble getting the net worth of individuals in African countries, Some Eastern European countries and South American countries.

Because someone like Dangote, did not make the economic breakthrough to being a billionaire in February 2008 or in the last year. Either his quoted companies did not make the margin and his non quoted companies were not included in the overall balance sheet, or transparency is not apparent.

:applause: At least the blacks on the list made their money honestly!

I always figured you to be a rational and intelligent person, but your last statement makes you sound completely dumb. Do you know anything about the likes of Oppenheimer or Rupert other than their skin color? Your mentality is text book racism. Making a preconveived opinion or judgement on a person not based on their character or actions but soley because of their race. If Oppenheimer was black he would be revered and praise because in your mind "only blacks make their money honestly". Well I greatly respect Motsepe and what he has done, at the same time I don't ignore the achievments of others because of their skin color.

Anyways I'm out this back and fourth bickering is lame.

I always figured you to be a rational and intelligent person, but your last statement makes you sound completely dumb. Do you know anything about the likes of Oppenheimer or Rupert other than their skin color? Your mentality is text book racism. Making a preconveived opinion or judgement on a person not based on their character or actions but soley because of their race. If Oppenheimer was black he would be revered and praise because in your mind "only blacks make their money honestly". Well I greatly respect Motsepe and what he has done, at the same time I don't ignore the achievments of others because of their skin color.

Anyways I'm out this back and fourth bickering is lame.

alex, can you show that the wealth of oppenheimer and rupert are not related, directly or indirectly to the horrors and inequality of apartheid. are you saying that its a coincidence that a blk billionaire shows up after apartheid and not before? would oppenheimer and rupert be rich or this rich of they had to compete with 87% of the population

alex, can you show that the wealth of oppenheimer and rupert are not related, directly or indirectly to the horrors and inequality of apartheid. are you saying that its a coincidence that a blk billionaire shows up after apartheid and not before? would oppenheimer and rupert be rich or this rich of they had to compete with 87% of the population

Of course its related, but that can be said about almost any billionaire, theirs inequality in almost any society. People who ussually make it to the top have some sort of advantage over the masses, but should we belittle their achievment and make racist remarks? You think with the institutions and regulations in Nigeria make it so that Dangote didn't cut any corners or deals to get passed the bureaucracy? Or are you naive to think that everything was done under the rule of law? I'm not suggesting that Dangote is a crook but the system in place makes being a nice guy a loser. That applies to the 80 billionaires in Russia as well, who have in many cases a real bad reputation.

Even in today's post apartheid South Africa despite the affirmative action and quotas in place in the country's corporate world South African whites are still more likely to be millionaires or of higher income in the financial sector. Why? Because their born into wealthier households, better educated thus better opportunities. Should we condemn every succesful white because of this historical inequality? Should we ignore the hard work that it takes to make it to the top?

Using your logic I can in turn condemn Motsepe since he was a beneficiary to South Africa's BEE program. Rupert and Oppenheimer are decades long big money South African families, thats their advantage. Motsepe was a succesful product of black economic empower by the ANC that's his advantage. I wonder how many of the 500 or so billionaires worldwide benefited from the inequality in their respected societies. I also wonder if we lived in a totally egalitarian world where everyone started in a even foot what the wealth of those 500 people would truly be.

Of course its related, but that can be said about almost any billionaire, theirs inequality in almost any society. People who ussually make it to the top have some sort of advantage over the masses, but should we belittle their achievment and make racist remarks? You think with the institutions and regulations in Nigeria make it so that Dangote didn't cut any corners or deals to get passed the bureaucracy? Or are you naive to think that everything was done under the rule of law? I'm not suggesting that Dangote is a crook but the system in place makes being a nice guy a loser. That applies to the 80 billionaires in Russia as well, who have in many cases a real bad reputation.

Even in today's post apartheid South Africa despite the affirmative action and quotas in place in the country's corporate world South African whites are still more likely to be millionaires or of higher income in the financial sector. Why? Because their born into wealthier households, better educated thus better opportunities. Should we condemn every succesful white because of this historical inequality? Should we ignore the hard work that it takes to make it to the top?

Using your logic I can in turn condemn Motsepe since he was a beneficiary to South Africa's BEE program. Rupert and Oppenheimer are decades long big money South African families, thats their advantage. Motsepe was a succesful product of black economic empower by the ANC that's his advantage. I wonder how many of the 500 or so billionaires worldwide benefited from the inequality in their respected societies. I also wonder if we lived in a totally egalitarian world where everyone started in a even foot what the wealth of those 500 people would truly be.

first off a ton of billionaires exist that didn't take advantage of anyone, from dangote, to oprah to bill gates to many others. the white SAs cant say the same thing. the wealth of the families in SA, the white ones, are very directly related one of the most brutal systems of exploitation in modern history. to some how say that today the advantage the whites hold, being wealthy, is innocent, and cant be traced to the early evils of apartheid, is being disingenuous.

in regards to blacks becoming wealthy from a program thats seeks to redress a long history of exploitation, i cant see how it can be viewed by any reasonable measure to be the same as apartheid. are whites relegated to homelands? is their education circumscribed to a few disciplines? or any enterprise by whites?

i would sooner want to be associated with a businessman that makes his wealth from connections, which is perfectly legitimate, than one that make shis riches from the sweat and blood of an entire people

@alex Roney
if there was no apartheid. . .then a lot more blacks would have been billionaires in south africa before now. . .its just like wondering what bill clinton would have been if he was a poor black kid from arkansas instead of a white one. . .certainly not president. . .and if the oppenmeirers were black. .under apartheid,of course they would not be billionaires. . .(i wonder why its so hard for some people to comprehend this)

first off a ton of billionaires exist that didn't take advantage of anyone, from dangote, to oprah to bill gates to many others. the white SAs cant say the same thing. the wealth of the families in SA, the white ones, are very directly related one of the most brutal systems of exploitation in modern history. to some how say that today the advantage the whites hold, being wealthy, is innocent, and cant be traced to the early evils of apartheid, is being disingenuous.

in regards to blacks becoming wealthy from a program thats seeks to redress a long history of exploitation, i cant see how it can be viewed by any reasonable measure to be the same as apartheid. are whites relegated to homelands? is their education circumscribed to a few disciplines? or any enterprise by whites?

i would sooner want to be associated with a businessman that makes his wealth from connections, which is perfectly legitimate, than one that make shis riches from the sweat and blood of an entire people

Thats not true, the vast majority of billionaires did not come from humble or modest backgrounds like Bill Gates and especially Oprah Winfrey. The general consensus is that the poverty trap keeps people poor and those in the upper and middle classes are the ones who become the ultra rich. You will obviously find some extraordinary stories of great social mobilization but these are minority cases. Again do you seriously not believe that Dangote didn't cut corners to reach his position? Bribing is illegal but you as well as I know that it has completely integrated itself in Nigerian society. Lets not be naive here. You can trace back money decades and centuries back. How many millionaire old money families in America had roots in the slave trade or agriculture slave labour? All this finger pointing and name calling isn't productive.

Its not and I'm not saying that I'm against affirmative action. In South Africa it makes sense, however the issue is while in theory its great the reality has been that only a few have benefited and those tend to be indivduals with connections to the ANC. I can make the same claim that the only reason why Motsepe is a billionaire is because of his connections. That would be unfair just like what your saying about South African whites.


Rupert and Oppenheimer enslaved and killed people? Never heard of that. Don't you see that they are fortunate it enough to have connections in the same way as Motsepe? Back then it was because they were white now that doesn't much good and black is in. Michael you just seem like a bitter guy who wants revenge more than reconcilliation. You fall under the cheap populist banner of "throw the whites and take their money" slogan.

Anyways I'll end things with this poll. Maybe you should pay attention to the feelings of Black South Africans, after all they were the ones who suffered under apartheid and not you.

http://i25.tinypic.com/2lxe4xk.gif

in response to most of your post, see paddyo above. he states its clearer than me.

and thanks for the poll. things are thankfully improving. if america can improve, so can SA.

@alex Roney
if there was no apartheid. . .then a lot more blacks would have been billionaires in south africa before now. . .its just like wondering what bill clinton would have been if he was a poor black kid from arkansas instead of a white one. . .certainly not president. . .and if the oppenmeirers were black. .under apartheid,of course they would not be billionaires. . .(i wonder why its so hard for some people to comprehend this)

And if we were all born in a completely equal socio economic household many of those billionaires would not be where they are today. I have a question, if Oprah were white would she be double her current value? Or if Obama was white would he have the same appeal? After all the democratic party has been searching for the ideal black candidate for many years now. I wonder why its so hard for you to comprehend this, if your black and born into a wealthy suburban household your chances are ALOT better off than rural southern white kid.

:applause: At least the blacks on the list made their money honestly!

If you think you become a billlionaire by acting above board and humanitarian all the time, you live in a fool's paradise.

Working together with whites helps us in skill improvement and being actively involved in the economy. The past is the past and we cannot blame every white person for what happened in the past. If that's the case what should we say about George Bizos, Beyers Naude and others because they helped fight racism in our country? What about the guy who was a prison official for Nelson Mandela and helped in making sure that the world the relevant parties gets the information from political prisioners. Yes, there are white people who benefited from apartheid but we need not to focus on that is it will hold us back, what we need to do is to get people out of poverty.

Johann Rupert
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Johann Peter Rupert (born 1 June 1950) is the eldest son of the late Afrikaans South African business tycoon Anton Rupert and his wife Huberte Rupert. He is the chairman of the Swiss-based luxury-goods company Richemont as well as of the South Africa-based companies VenFin and Remgro.

Rupert grew up in the South African town of Stellenbosch where he still lives, and where he also attended the University of Stellenbosch, studying economics and company law. He dropped out of university to pursue a career in business but in 2004 Stellenbosch University awarded him an Honorary Doctorate.

Rupert and his wife Gaynor have three children.

Contents [hide]
1 Business Career
2 Other Interests
3 Controversies
4 References



[edit] Business Career
Rupert served his business apprenticeship in New York, where he worked for Chase Manhattan for two years and for Lazard Freres for three years. He then returned to to South Africa in 1979 and founded Rand Merchant Bank of which he was CEO. He started the Small Business Development Corporation in same year (+/- 500,000 jobs created since inception).

1984: Rupert merged RMB and Rand Consolidated Investments, and left to join his father's company, the Rembrandt Group.
Rupert founded Compagnie Financiere Richemont in 1988 and was appointed Non-Executive Director of Rothmans International plc in 1988. He was elected “Businessman of the Year” by the Sunday Times in the same year.
1989: Rupert was appointed Vice Chairman of the Rembrandt Group.
1990: Elected by Die Burger newspaper and the Cape Town Chamber of Commerce as the business leader of the year. He also formed the Vendôme Luxury Group SA.
1991: Rupert was appointed Chairman of Rembrandt Group Limited and in 1992 he was elected one of 200 "Global Leaders of Tomorrow" by the World Economic Forum, Davos, Switzerland.
1993: Received the M.S. Louw Award by the A.H.I. ("Afrikaanse Handelsinstituut").
1994: Appointed Chairman of the Small Business Development Corporation Limited ("SBDC").
1995: Formed Nethold SA, bought into Telepui and Mediaset.
1995: Privatised Rothmans International plc. Merged Rothmans International and Rembrandt Tobacco.
1996: Elected Sunday Times Business Times's Businessman of the Year for second time.
1996: Merged Nethold into Canal+.
1997: Appointed Non-Executive Chairman of Gold Fields South Africa Ltd.
1997: Appointed to the Advisory Council of GEMS Oriental and General Fund.
1998: Merged Rothmans International and British American Tobacco PLC.
1999: Awarded the 1999 Free Market Award by The Free Market Foundation of South Africa.
2000: Restructured Rembrandt Group Limited and formed Remgro Limited and VenFin Limited. Appointed Chairman and Chief Executive of Compagnie Financière Richemont SA. Voted “Most influential Business Leader” in South Africa by CEO’s of top 100 Listed Companies
2000: Awarded an Honorary Doctorate in Economics by the University of Stellenbosch.
2000: Rupert played a key role in the establishment of Vodacom, the leading cellular communication specialist group in Africa, as well as in Tracker Network (Pty) Ltd, which specialised in stolen vehicle recovery systems. He sold Vodacom to Vodafone for R21bn via the restructuring of VenFin.
2004: Although he continued as Executive Chairman, he resigned as the CEO of Richemont in September 2004 after 15-month period of leading the company's turnaround.
2006: According to the 2006 edition of Forbes' list of the world's richest people, the Rupert family is 207th, with a worth estimated at approximately USD 3.3 billion.

[edit] Other Interests
Rupert is a former cricketer and helped to create the Laureus Foundation, which funds 23 Sport for Good projects, with the goal of motivating underprivileged children. He co-founded the Sports Science Institute[1] with his friends Morne du Plessis and Tim Noakes.

Rupert also developed the Gary Player-designed, Leopard Creek Golf Club in Mpumalanga, South Africa which is one of South Africa's best golf courses, and rated number 25 outside the United States of America (Golf Digest))

He serves as Chairman of the South African PGA Tour and Chairman of the South African Golf Development Board. Following his younger brother Anthonij's tragic death in a car accident in 2001 he took over the L'Ormarins wine estate. Anthonij, was head of Rupert & Rothschild Vignerons. Rupert initiated a project to enhance the farm in memory of his late brother.

He was council member of The South Africa Foundation and trustee of the Southern African Nature Foundation, The Institute of Directors in Southern Africa, Business South Africa and Die Suid-Afrikaanse Akademie vir Wetenskap en Kuns and Managing Trustee and member of the investment committee, Nelson Mandela Children's Fund. He served on the Daimler Chrysler International Advisory Board.

Following in the footsteps of his father, Anton, Johann Rupert is also a committed conservationist.


[edit] Controversies
He was once rumoured to have been interested in buying the English Premier League football side Blackburn Rovers, but he subsequently emphatically denied it. In an interview with the South African online publication Moneyweb, Rupert explained in detail how the confusing international report had come about.[2] Blackburn Rovers has a strong link to South African football through both former National team captain Aaron Mokoena and striker Benni McCarthy who were both on Blackburn's books.

When the British design magazine Wallpaper* described the Afrikaans language as "the ugliest language in the world" in its September 2005 edition (in reference to the Afrikaans Language Monument), Rupert responded by withdrawing advertising for his companies' brands such as Cartier, Van Cleef & Arpels, Montblanc and Alfred Dunhill from the magazine.[3]


[edit] References
^ Sports Science Institute of South Africa
^ Johann Rupert: Executive chairman, Richemont. Moneyweb, 22 June 2007.
^ Rupert snubs mag over Afrikaans slur. iAfrica.com, 5 December 2005.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Rupert"

Interesting what an evil man he is!

"Rupert is a former cricketer and helped to create the Laureus Foundation, which funds 23 Sport for Good projects, with the goal of motivating underprivileged children. He co-founded the Sports Science Institute[1] with his friends Morne du Plessis and Tim Noakes."

Plus, don't we think it is extremely reductionist to believe that every white businessman in south africa would have to be evil and rascist? This would be equal in saying that every nigerian businessman would be corrupt!

White South Africans are africans. Thus, they are counted amongst Africa's wealthy. Or should we call them billionaires without a home-country? Exiled European billionaires? De Beers (this is where the oppenheimers come in) is a legitimate business, creating work for thousands - should we close them down? Should we destroy every South African business because they operated during apartheid times?

This is of course, what the ignorant, reductionist forum user would argue for. SA, like all other countries accross the globe, is an amazingly complex country, and it is difficult to understand. And to call all whites illegitimate, evil and rascist is rascist as well (and at the same time extremely annoying!). Get your facts in order gents.

You complain that all nigerians are cast as crooks, yet you happily classify all white south africans as rascist with no legitimacy? Where do you want us to go?

So I guess another white south african billionaire is just another landless whitey with no legitimate wealth?

Mark Shuttleworth





Spaceflight Participant
Nationality South African / British
Born September 18, 1973 (1973-09-18) (age 34)
Welkom, Free State
Other occupation Entrepreneur
Space time 9d 21h 25m
Selection 2001
Missions Soyuz TM-34, Soyuz TM-33

Mark Richard Shuttleworth (born 18 September 1973) is a South African entrepreneur who was the second self-funded space tourist and first African in space.[1][2] He is now best known for his leadership of the Ubuntu Linux distribution.

He currently lives in London and holds dual citizenship of South Africa and the United Kingdom.

Early life
Shuttleworth was born in Welkom, Free State, South Africa.

After going to school at Diocesan College, Shuttleworth obtained a Business Science degree in Finance and Information Systems at the University of Cape Town.


Work
Shuttleworth founded Thawte in 1995, which specialised in digital certificates and Internet security and then sold it to VeriSign in December 1999, earning R 3.5 billion (about 575 million US dollars at the time).

In September 2000, Shuttleworth formed HBD Venture Capital, a business incubator and venture capital provider.

In March 2004 he formed Canonical Ltd., for the promotion and commercial support of free software projects.


Linux
In the 1990s, Shuttleworth participated as a developer of Debian, a Linux distribution. In 2004 he returned to the Linux world by funding the development of Ubuntu, a Linux distribution based on Debian, through his company Canonical Ltd.

In 2001 he formed the Shuttleworth Foundation, a non-profit organization dedicated to social innovation which also funds educational and free and open source software projects in South Africa, such as the Freedom Toaster.

In 2005 he founded the Ubuntu Foundation and made an initial investment of 10 million dollars. In the Ubuntu project, Shuttleworth is often referred to with the tongue-in-cheek title Self-Appointed Benevolent Dictator for Life, abbreviated SABDFL.[3] To come up with a list of names of people to hire for the project, Mr. Shuttleworth took six months of Debian mailing list archives with him whilst travelling to the Antarctic aboard the icebreaker Kapitan Khlebnikov in early 2004[4]. In September 2005, he purchased a 65% stake of Impi Linux.[5]

On 15 October 2006 it was announced that Mark Shuttleworth became the first patron of KDE, the highest level of sponsorship available.[6]


Spaceflight

Shuttleworth in the International Space StationShuttleworth gained worldwide fame on 25 April 2002 as a spaceflight participant aboard the Russian Soyuz TM-34 mission, paying approximately US$ 20 million. Two days later, the Soyuz spacecraft arrived at the International Space Station, where he spent eight days participating in experiments related to AIDS and genome research. On 2002-05-05, he returned to Earth. In order to participate on the flight, Shuttleworth had to undergo one year of training and preparation, including seven months spent in Star City, Russia.

While in space he had a radio conversation with Nelson Mandela and a 14 year old South African girl, Michelle Foster, who asked him to marry her. He politely dodged the question, stating that he was "very honoured at the question" before moving the conversation on.[7] The terminally ill Miss Foster's conversation was enabled by the Reach for a Dream foundation. [1][8][9]

Transport
He has his own private jet, a Bombardier Global Express,[10] which is often referred to as Canonical One[11][12][13] but is in fact owned through his HBD Venture Capital company. The dragon depicted on the side of the plane is "Norman", the HBD Venture Capital mascot.

And if we were all born in a completely equal socio economic household many of those billionaires would not be where they are today. I have a question, if Oprah were white would she be double her current value? Or if Obama was white would he have the same appeal? After all the democratic party has been searching for the ideal black candidate for many years now. I wonder why its so hard for you to comprehend this, if your black and born into a wealthy suburban household your chances are ALOT better off than rural southern white kid.

why do you make up these stupid conclusions when you have no basis for them. where do you get this notion that the democratic party has been searching for the ideal black candidate. thats one of those stupid and bigoted (yes, racist!) ways of diminishing obama's appeal and accomplishments. to somehow say he is achieving what he has not because on merit, but because the party "has been searching for a black candidate." and why alex, would they be searching for this candidate,. whats the value? tell me. so damned stupid.

why do you make up these stupid conclusions when you have no basis for them. where do you get this notion that the democratic party has been searching for the ideal black candidate. thats one of those stupid and bigoted (yes, racist!) ways of diminishing obama's appeal and accomplishments. to somehow say he is achieving what he has not because on merit, but because the party "has been searching for a black candidate." and why alex, would they be searching for this candidate,. whats the value? tell me. so damned stupid.

Little do you know Michael but I'm one of the most avid Obama supporters. But I don't let my personal opinion on Obama cloud my judgement on the intentions of the Democratic establishment. For a long time they've been trying to find a person who can bring together the wine drinking and black voters together with the union working class whites. Part of Obama's appeal is the fact that he is half white and half black that he transcends race. Which is why a man with extremely little experience (Hillary is no better in this regard) is so quickly embraced by this establishment. Taking account his charisma, likeability factor and public speeches and you have a great candidate. Anything I say is racist while you in fact preach genocide and expulsion is completely acceptable. Your double standards are so clear for everyone to see, Nigerians can't be accused of being corrupt yet all whites are racist and evil. You'll never hear me say that all Nigerians are corrupt nor that all South African whites are tolerant little angels.

You still haven't answered my question, who has the better opportunities, a black middle class kid in the burbs or a southern rural white kid? Your issue is that you look at the racial inequalities and scream for blood, yet every society as some sort of inequality that transcends social rather than racial lines. In most cases it is those at the top that make it and the ones at the bottom are stuck in the "poverty trap". But you don't talk about those inequalties because of a deep rooted resentment that you have. It's incredibly sad, bitterness and hate aren't progressive virtues. Those go against the Ideals of MLK, Gandhi and Mandela.

Little do you know Michael but I'm one of the most avid Obama supporters. But I don't let my personal opinion on Obama cloud my judgement on the intentions of the Democratic establishment. For a long time they've been trying to find a person who can bring together the wine drinking and black voters together with the union working class whites. Part of Obama's appeal is the fact that he is half white and half black that he transcends race. Which is why a man with extremely little experience (Hillary is no better in this regard) is so quickly embraced by this establishment. Taking account his charisma, likeability factor and public speeches and you have a great candidate. Anything I say is racist while you in fact preach genocide and expulsion is completely acceptable. Your double standards are so clear for everyone to see, Nigerians can't be accused of being corrupt yet all whites are racist and evil. You'll never hear me say that all Nigerians are corrupt nor that all South African whites are tolerant little angels.

You still haven't answered my question, who has the better opportunities, a black middle class kid in the burbs or a southern rural white kid? Your issue is that you look at the racial inequalities and scream for blood, yet every society as some sort of inequality that transcends social rather than racial lines. In most cases it is those at the top that make it and the ones at the bottom are stuck in the "poverty trap". But you don't talk about those inequalties because of a deep rooted resentment that you have. It's incredibly sad, bitterness and hate aren't progressive virtues. Those go against the Ideals of MLK, Gandhi and Mandela.

with friends like you, who needs enemies. being a so called obama supporer doesnt make you not ill informed. if you have been paying attention these two group in the democratic party have not become united during obama' run, but rather polarized, for a variety of reasons, some it because of people that think liek you.

answer me this: how does obama being black bring these groups together as you claim. where did you get the notion that the democratic party has been looking for a black candidate. offer me some proof; otherwise its just one more ploy on you part to diminish black accomplishment.

obama's race has been more polarizing than uniting. what has inspired the democrats is obama's speeches and how he has run his campaign and his promise of change. to racists like yourself you can see nothing but his race, but thankfully others see other parts of him. do you even follow the campaign? do you know that the party is actually extremely divided right now in many instances along the lines or race? so what do you base your conclusion on?

i point out you're a bigot because you parrot the same racist lines that seek to diminish the accomplishments of blacks like obama with no facts. im asking from your proof that his appeal lies in his so called race. offer me one shred of proof.

to answer your idiotic question, the context matters. a black kid from the suburbs in aparthied SA has less of an opportunity than a retarded white kid from the rural areas. what country does tis blk kid in live and in what time in that country's history. when you give me those facts i'll better answer your question.

with friends like you, who needs enemies. being a so called obama supporer doesnt make you not ill informed. if you have been paying attention these two group in the democratic party have not become united during obama' run, but rather polarized, for a variety of reasons, some it because of people that think liek you.

answer me this: how does obama being black bring these groups together as you claim. where did you get the notion that the democratic party has been looking for a black candidate. offer me some proof; otherwise its just one more ploy on you part to diminish black accomplishment.

obama's race has been more polarizing than uniting. what has inspired the democrats is obama's speeches and how he has run his campaign and his promise of change. to racists like yourself you can see nothing but his race, but thankfully others see other parts of him. do you even follow the campaign? do you know that the party is actually extremely divided right now in many instances along the lines or race? so what do you base your conclusion on?

i point out you're a bigot because you parrot the same racist lines that seek to diminish the accomplishments of blacks like obama with no facts. im asking from your proof that his appeal lies in his so called race. offer me one shred of proof.

to answer your idiotic question, the context matters. a black kid from the suburbs in aparthied SA has less of an opportunity than a retarded white kid from the rural areas. what country does tis blk kid in live and in what time in that country's history. when you give me those facts i'll better answer your question.

Really?? Tell that to the voters in Wisconsin look at the demographics Obama won. Or just look at the states Obama has taken. Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Iowa, Washington. Those are all very white states and perhaps with exception of Washington those are some of the most rural places in the country that you'll find. Yet in all those cases (except Iowa) he beats Hillary by over 15 points.

Because it brings together blacks with educated and young white voters. The latter tend to be quite liberal, which also bodes well with working class unionists or are against Republican economic liberalization. Obama has one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate! Hillary Clinton is a polarizing figure, which is why in a general election she doesn't do as well as Obama against McCain.

I obviously follow the campaign more than you do. Again how the hell did the potatoe farmers in Crackville, Idaho vote 80% for Obama? The racial divide is mostly seen the deep south, this is mostly attributed to the fact that white democrats love Bill Clinton, afterall he was a poor Southern white boy not to long ago. Obama's supporters once again proves my point of a more social than racial divide. The biggest bulk of his supporters are young voters, regardless of race. He also beats Hillary Clinton among upper income voters as well. Even in the deep South while Hillary destroys him with older and white female voters among white men its very close indeed. Heck in the Virginia primary he beat Clinton easily in wealthy northern Virginia. Places like Fairfax county are Obama country despite being suburban and predominantly white.

Yet were not talking about the apartheid era. The example could be applied to either the U.S or today's South Africa. And its not a stupid question, you just don't like the answer becomes it eliminates the basis of your hatred and blame. Fact is a middle class black kid in Joburg has much better prospects than a poor Afrikaans son of a farmer. Just like a middle class black kid in N.Y has better prospects than Eli in western North Carolina.

Oh and before saying that I haven't been following the U.S presedential election you should have seen this thread. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=567592&page=2

Really?? Tell that to the voters in Wisconsin look at the demographics Obama won. Or just look at the states Obama has taken. Idaho, Wyoming, Utah, Iowa, Washington. Those are all very white states and perhaps with exception of Washington those are some of the most rural places in the country that you'll find. Yet in all those cases (except Iowa) he beats Hillary by over 15 points.

Because it brings together blacks with educated and young white voters. The latter tend to be quite liberal, which also bodes well with working class unionists or are against Republican economic liberalization. Obama has one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate! Hillary Clinton is a polarizing figure, which is why in a general election she doesn't do as well as Obama against McCain.

I obviously follow the campaign more than you do. Again how the hell did the potatoe farmers in Crackville, Idaho vote 80% for Obama? The racial divide is mostly seen the deep south, this is mostly attributed to the fact that white democrats love Bill Clinton, afterall he was a poor Southern white boy not to long ago. Obama's supporters once again proves my point of a more social than racial divide. The biggest bulk of his supporters are young voters, regardless of race. He also beats Hillary Clinton among upper income voters as well. Even in the deep South while Hillary destroys him with older and white female voters among white men its very close indeed. Heck in the Virginia primary he beat Clinton easily in wealthy northern Virginia. Places like Fairfax county are Obama country despite being suburban and predominantly white.

Yet were not talking about the apartheid era. The example could be applied to either the U.S or today's South Africa. And its not a stupid question, you just don't like the answer becomes it eliminates the basis of your hatred and blame. Fact is a middle class black kid in Joburg has much better prospects than a poor Afrikaans son of a farmer. Just like a middle class black kid in N.Y has better prospects than Eli in western North Carolina.

Oh and before saying that I haven't been following the U.S presedential election you should have seen this thread. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=567592&page=2

you may have an interest in the campaign but you clearly don't understand a thing about it. have you ever heard of the term 'reagan democrats'? these are blue collar white democrats that formed the bulk of reagan base ( he was a republican). these folks are not attracted to obama and may very likely vote mccain if obama wins the democratic nomination. its been clear so far in this democrat's race./ so i dont know where you get this unification among the democrats and this idea that obama was somehow picked because he is black. obama's success in the states you mentioned came from the design of the voting, i.e. being a caucus as opposed to being a primary. also you lumped together states that have very different democraphis. in rural states, the democrats are veyr liberal. they tend to be more hare core racists in places where they have to compete with blacks for jobs or have a history of conflict with blacks liek in the south, or evenin the med west like ohio.

you're stereotypes view that the racists live in the south doesnt account for the nuances of america.

"You have to understand that Senator Clinton has been performing much better among certain kinds of voters, Latino voters, older voters, women voters and downscale voters, that is very partisan Democrats who have come from less affluent families and have less formal education. Senator Obama has been doing very well with independents, with younger voters, with, of course, African-Americans and with upscale voters, high education, high income voters," Rothenberg said.
http://voanews.com/english/2008-03-11-voa79.cfm

there are many articles on thispoint. fact is the democrats are in a very divisive fight right now and many reagan democrats could very easily vote for a centrist republican like john mccain. obama actually attracts the wealthy and educated. clinton attracts the poor and uneducated

in regards to your hypothetical, a middle class black kid doesnt stand the same chances as a rural white kid. racism is very deep and the black kid has to perform much better than what his social standing insociety would normally offer him. read this: http://www.dmiblog.com/archives/2007/09/white_convicts_as_likely_to_be.html

in south africa it is changing but i would bet the white kids, descendants of those that stole from others to get rich, still control most of the wealth and still have a better chance

you may have an interest in the campaign but you clearly don't understand a thing about it. have you ever heard of the term 'reagan democrats'? these are blue collar white democrats that formed the bulk of reagan base ( he was a republican). these folks are not attracted to obama and may very likely vote mccain if obama wins the democratic nomination. its been clear so far in this democrat's race./ so i dont know where you get this unification among the democrats and this idea that obama was somehow picked because he is black. obama's success in the states you mentioned came from the design of the voting, i.e. being a caucus as opposed to being a primary. also you lumped together states that have very different democraphis. in rural states, the democrats are veyr liberal. they tend to be more hare core racists in places where they have to compete with blacks for jobs or have a history of conflict with blacks liek in the south, or evenin the med west like ohio.

you're stereotypes view that the racists live in the south doesnt account for the nuances of america.

"You have to understand that Senator Clinton has been performing much better among certain kinds of voters, Latino voters, older voters, women voters and downscale voters, that is very partisan Democrats who have come from less affluent families and have less formal education. Senator Obama has been doing very well with independents, with younger voters, with, of course, African-Americans and with upscale voters, high education, high income voters," Rothenberg said.
http://voanews.com/english/2008-03-11-voa79.cfm

there are many articles on thispoint. fact is the democrats are in a very divisive fight right now and many reagan democrats could very easily vote for a centrist republican like john mccain. obama actually attracts the wealthy and educated. clinton attracts the poor and uneducated

in regards to your hypothetical, a middle class black kid doesnt stand the same chances as a rural white kid. racism is very deep and the black kid has to perform much better than what his social standing insociety would normally offer him. read this: http://www.dmiblog.com/archives/2007/09/white_convicts_as_likely_to_be.html

in south africa it is changing but i would bet the white kids, descendants of those that stole from others to get rich, still control most of the wealth and still have a better chance

Obama was picked soley because he was black and I never said that. But the fact that he is half black is part of his appeal. Also the only "rural" state that applies to having very liberal democrats is Iowa, which is also a swing state. Idaho, Montana, both Dakotas, Wyoming ect are even whiter, and more sparsley populated. Their also the reddest of red states. Look at all the typically "republican" states Obama has won and compare it to Hillary. Iowa is a very unique and fascinating case of two very distinct political demographics. Thats not the case in other red states in which democrats tend to hold very conservative views. You are right with the competition with jobs, yet someone could live in Wyoming and never see a black person before. Differences and lack of knowledge aren't ussually appealing to simple folks. Obama has been smart unlike Hillary to focus on the smaller states. I could name other states with rural and white populations that held primaries. Obama beat Hillary by over 20 points in Vermont, though it is a very liberal state. Also Utah and South Dakota had primaries and not caucases.

What? Where did I say that the racists only live in the South? I'd argue the opposite in many cases. I've seen more racism in "liberal" California than in the deep south in the past 10 years. Their was an interesting article/survey a year back on the American South, African Americans polled are happier with race relations than in most other parts of the country.

I've said that all along regarding Clinton's and Obama's supporters. Glad you agree with me on something. But you forget a very important factor. THE REPUBLICANS ARE ALSO DIVISIVE! Many Republicans including some of my extended family that live in the U.S are switching to Obama. You also forget that most democrats actually like Obama who has higher favorable ratings than Clinton, who has negatives of over 40%. Both parties are at a crossroad but I'm pretty sure in the end the bulk of Clinton supporters will go to Obama, most are completely fed up with the Republicans. Even if race is such an important factor as you claim, they'll pick a black guy over another 4 years of Bush.

That is bull crap and you know it. My aunt lives in Hendersonville, North Carolina which is right on the Appalachian mountain range. I've seen rural poverty that would make South Central seem like the Hamptons. Plus lets be honest here a black kid with a good public or even private education easily surpasses southern rural poverty. Coupled with the fact that Universities give preferential treatment to minorities. Being poor in America sucks balls, whether your latino, black,white,asian or native american. The public school system in urban ghettos, rural areas and reserves are shit. I worked with a community of kids in Inglewood, Compton and Watts to see that. Thats why instead of giving preferential treatment solely based on race it should be on income. Because in the end your helping kids that really need it. And both blacks and latinos will still be the main beneficiaries since their still disproportionantly poor.

Every other african leader, present or past, is a billionaire. Why aint they on the Forbes list? Because they've stashed their countries' billions away in offshore accounts and what not. They suck money from you- their "brothers and sisters", and still the fucking morons believe all black billionaires get their money through honesty and hard work. Why are oil-rich Nigeria, it's neighbours and other mineral rich African countries still primitive??
Open your eyes you dumb sheep and stop praising your billionaires!

Final thought- "behind every fortune, is a crime"

Every other african leader, present or past, is a billionaire. Why aint they on the Forbes list? Because they've stashed their countries' billions away in offshore accounts and what not. They suck money from you- their "brothers and sisters", and still the fucking morons believe all black billionaires get their money through honesty and hard work. Why are oil-rich Nigeria, it's neighbours and other mineral rich African countries still primitive??
Open your eyes you dumb sheep and stop praising your billionaires!

Final thought- "behind every fortune, is a crime"

idiot harkeb, you obviously have trouble following the discussion. if we were praising leaders that stole money, you may have a point. but we are taking about legitimate business men. try to follow the conversation, idiot. actually, better yet, go suck on a shot gun

Obama was picked soley because he was black and I never said that. But the fact that he is half black is part of his appeal. Also the only "rural" state that applies to having very liberal democrats is Iowa, which is also a swing state. Idaho, Montana, both Dakotas, Wyoming ect are even whiter, and more sparsley populated. Their also the reddest of red states. Look at all the typically "republican" states Obama has won and compare it to Hillary. Iowa is a very unique and fascinating case of two very distinct political demographics. Thats not the case in other red states in which democrats tend to hold very conservative views. You are right with the competition with jobs, yet someone could live in Wyoming and never see a black person before. Differences and lack of knowledge aren't ussually appealing to simple folks. Obama has been smart unlike Hillary to focus on the smaller states. I could name other states with rural and white populations that held primaries. Obama beat Hillary by over 20 points in Vermont, though it is a very liberal state. Also Utah and South Dakota had primaries and not caucases.

What? Where did I say that the racists only live in the South? I'd argue the opposite in many cases. I've seen more racism in "liberal" California than in the deep south in the past 10 years. Their was an interesting article/survey a year back on the American South, African Americans polled are happier with race relations than in most other parts of the country.

I've said that all along regarding Clinton's and Obama's supporters. Glad you agree with me on something. But you forget a very important factor. THE REPUBLICANS ARE ALSO DIVISIVE! Many Republicans including some of my extended family that live in the U.S are switching to Obama. You also forget that most democrats actually like Obama who has higher favorable ratings than Clinton, who has negatives of over 40%. Both parties are at a crossroad but I'm pretty sure in the end the bulk of Clinton supporters will go to Obama, most are completely fed up with the Republicans. Even if race is such an important factor as you claim, they'll pick a black guy over another 4 years of Bush.

That is bull crap and you know it. My aunt lives in Hendersonville, North Carolina which is right on the Appalachian mountain range. I've seen rural poverty that would make South Central seem like the Hamptons. Plus lets be honest here a black kid with a good public or even private education easily surpasses southern rural poverty. Coupled with the fact that Universities give preferential treatment to minorities. Being poor in America sucks balls, whether your latino, black,white,asian or native american. The public school system in urban ghettos, rural areas and reserves are shit. I worked with a community of kids in Inglewood, Compton and Watts to see that. Thats why instead of giving preferential treatment solely based on race it should be on income. Because in the end your helping kids that really need it. And both blacks and latinos will still be the main beneficiaries since their still disproportionantly poor.

you still havent told me why if obama is what the democrats have been waiitng for, why he only leads by 2% of the vote. why isnt his vote count much larger? you still haven't offered any proof of this democrat's wet dream other than your racist idea that any black person doing well must be because of some illegitimate force. nothing in your initial post mentioned anything about his superior fundraising capability, his superior judgment, his superior ability to inspire and call to action or his superior record in the state and US senate in comparison to clinton. his length of time as an elected offical and community organizer. so what exactly do you mean he has no experince. besides, experince hasnt shown to be proof of a good president. look at nixon and buchanan with a lot of experince. then look at jfk and lincoln with less experince who were legends.

give it a break. you dont know anything about the competition here. you dont even now the difference beween a caucus and a primary.

Every other african leader, present or past, is a billionaire. Why aint they on the Forbes list? Because they've stashed their countries' billions away in offshore accounts and what not. They suck money from you- their "brothers and sisters", and still the fucking morons believe all black billionaires get their money through honesty and hard work. Why are oil-rich Nigeria, it's neighbours and other mineral rich African countries still primitive??
Open your eyes you dumb sheep and stop praising your billionaires!

Final thought- "behind every fortune, is a crime"

This is why Nigeria shouldn't get a Sub forum, because South African Forumers are mature

you still havent told me why if obama is what the democrats have been waiitng for, why he only leads by 2% of the vote. why isnt his vote count much larger? you still haven't offered any proof of this democrat's wet dream other than your racist idea that any black person doing well must be because of some illegitimate force. nothing in your initial post mentioned anything about his superior fundraising capability, his superior judgment, his superior ability to inspire and call to action or his superior record in the state and US senate in comparison to clinton. his length of time as an elected offical and community organizer. so what exactly do you mean he has no experince. besides, experince hasnt shown to be proof of a good president. look at nixon and buchanan with a lot of experince. then look at jfk and lincoln with less experince who were legends.

give it a break. you dont know anything about the competition here. you dont even now the difference beween a caucus and a primary.

Because he has no real political record, you can attack him on not having any experience but not on policies, that he's supporter or help legislate. Hillary carries a lot more baggage than Obama, she is loathed by a large segment of the population. Obama is more of uniter than a divider which is why a man with so little experience has be embraced so quickly. Obama does not have much of a record on the senate, he hasn't engineered any real important legislation. You want to keep calling me a racist yet you have no proof of such a claim in ANYTHING I've said.

You sir are a bigoted narcisistic fool and a hypocrit. I'll leave it there. And again where do I demonstrate not knowing the difference between a caucaus and primary? You say baseless things and can't back shit up.

assuming everything you said is true, and his lack of record (which is different from his lack of experince) is why people are attracted to him because he cant be attacked, what does that have to do with him being part black? you just proved my point. your kneejerk reaction was he was liked because he was black and now you are claiming its because of his non record.

secondly, again you know nothing about his record. he has a longr record than clinton actually. she has been known longer because she was first lady, but he has been an elected official for 11 years, 4 years longer than clinton. he is known for his work on civil rights in the chicago senate, being the first state to pass law requiring all the police to record questioning. he spearheaded that bill. he also worked on the firs significant reform in the US senate.

for some reason you think the longer one has been in the senate the better a president the person will be and history has shown otherwise. whats most important is judgment. obama has shown superior judgment

assuming everything you said is true, and his lack of record (which is different from his lack of experince) is why people are attracted to him because he cant be attacked, what does that have to do with him being part black? you just proved my point. your kneejerk reaction was he was liked because he was black and now you are claiming its because of his non record.

secondly, again you know nothing about his record. he has a longr record than clinton actually. she has been known longer because she was first lady, but he has been an elected official for 11 years, 4 years longer than clinton. he is known for his work on civil rights in the chicago senate, being the first state to pass law requiring all the police to record questioning. he spearheaded that bill. he also worked on the firs significant reform in the US senate.

for some reason you think the longer one has been in the senate the better a president the person will be and history has shown otherwise. whats most important is judgment. obama has shown superior judgment

It's part of it, the fact that he is charismatic, does not carry a lot of political baggage and is generally likeable is faciliated by him being a minority. Which is something the democratic establishment has been seeking. It isn't only because he's black of his succesful campaigning and other accomplishments that just you putting words into my mouth. As usual.

Again do you read what I say? I didn't ever say that Clinton is more experienced than Obama, she has little record as well. He has done a lot of good on a local community level but not national and thats the issue. The police questioning bit isn't all that important to the general society. The issue with Obama like many senators is that he hasn't actually ever ran anything. Which is partly why Govenors and not senators in the last 50 years have won more elections. And you'll have time finding actual national policies he's orchestrated in the Senate. "Senate reform" is such a vague term I don't even know what it means. That said if that was so important to me I wouldn't be supporting Obama.

He has good judgment, but for most voters lack of experience is one of his negative traits. I think its important but not the most important component which is why I support Obama.

Okay, I dont believe I'm writing this but it has to be said. :ohno:

I don't believe you wrote this either.


The reason why people like this scientist think we're inferior is because the way we act and portray ourselves to be. In the media, especially american, black people are in music video's not using proper english and downright acting stupid, etc.

What about they way "they" act or have acted throughout history? Why don't they think they are "inferior" because of that purely animal behavior?

The wars in Congo, Rwanda (formerly), Cote d'Ivoire and Kenya fuel this scientists beliefs. In a way, I think we [blacks] are responsible for making people believe that were inferior. There is no reason for people to start wars and unrest over every little thing, many times things are never talked out, IF it is, than it is very brief. If Africans keep constantly going to war for something stupid, what do you expect people like this scientist to believe.



The conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo, the ex-Zaire, has involved seven nations African nations and different Western nations that have been there to profit from the conflict. There have been a number of complex reasons, including conflicts over basic resources such as water, access and control over rich minerals and other resources and various political agendas. This has been fueled and supported by various national and international corporations and other regimes which have an interest in the outcome of the conflict.

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/Africa.asp

The conflict in the other Congo-Brazzaville in 1997 was created by France and the French company Oil company Elf-Aquitaine. Elf Aquitaine also stand accused of paying for weapons used in the civil war. They spend almost 100 millions of $ to remove a demoractically elected president(Pascal Lissouba), and replace him with former dictator and president General Sassou Nguesso. When it comes to protect France interests in oil, $100 million could be sent to create a civil-war, but no money was spent 3 years earlier to prevent the quickest genocide in history in Rwanda.


http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/natres/oil/2002/1101frenchoil.htm

http://www.afrique-demain.org/Lettres/lettre18/lettre18.htm


The war in Cote d'Ivoire was also because France wanted to protect its interests using any means necessary. Try do some research about the genocide in Rwanda. You will find out that yes, the responsible were hutus extremists who held the machetes and slaughetered millions of tutsis, but the genocide was actually planned and organized by the French. François-Xavier Verschave, Colette Braeckman, Jean-Pierre Chretien etc are journalists who gave proof that France was involved directly and indirectly.


So, because of the carnage of slavery, colonialism, then World War I, Word War II, are we non-European supposed to think that European are inferiors? Is there a correlation between lack of intelligence and barbaric acts? If so, then how come throughout recorded history, the European who are supposed to be much more intelligent, seem to have the monopoly of those barbaric acts? The Nazi weren't Africans and they were so intelligent that they became the most organized killing-machine the world has ever known.

You should ask yourself where do those African nations get those sophisticated weapons and military acquitment and why Western powers give those Africans dictators diplomatic recognitions.

As an African, I would agree that a greater % of the African continent's problem is because of African themselves, but it would be naive to talk about Africa's problems without mentionning Western influence and interference.
You should Google Jacques Foccart, he did almost single handedly in Africa for France, what the CIA did all over the world to proctect the United States interests. Its all about cash, my brother. Some people and some corporations are profiting from Africa's condition.

Why are oil-rich Nigeria, it's neighbours and other mineral rich African countries still primitive??

Could you define primitive here please? If by primitive, you mean poverty or underdevelopped, then would you also consider Russia as primitive? Russia has even more oil than Nigeria and perhaps the most minerals for any country. Have you looked at the quality of life in Russia?

Japan has no natural ressources or minerals, and it is still far richer than Russia. Mineral wealth or huge natural ressources doesn't mean that the country would be an economical force or "sophistacated". Because Albania and Romania are very poor country, would you consider Singapour and Sweden more sophisticated than those countries? Neither of those have oil or an incredible amount of minerals, but some are rich and some aren't/

Saudi Arabia is oil-rich, but if you went there, saw the way the women were treated, you would consider them primitive by definition? What about the beheadings on Friday nights? Rather primitive for a very rich oil nation, no?

According to my dictionnayry, Primitive is a rather subjective term used to imply that one thing, or a culture, or practice, lifestyle is less "sophisticated" or less "advanced" than some other thing,culture, lifestyle or belief. Being a comparative word it is also relative in nature.

Yes, Nigeria and its neighbors have problems that results in millions of thousands of people dying from insufficient food, polluted water, or curable diseases and live in abject poverty. But how come in the we have situation where the wealthiest cultures, and countries in human history are plagued with the highest rates of suicides, drug abuse and violence, corruptions, sociopaths?

Nigeria has some tribalism problems. In the United States, race relations are still a work in progress. Would you say that people in the U.S are more sophisticated than in Nigeria?

And if we were all born in a completely equal socio economic household many of those billionaires would not be where they are today. I have a question, if Oprah were white would she be double her current value? Or if Obama was white would he have the same appeal? After all the democratic party has been searching for the ideal black candidate for many years now. I wonder why its so hard for you to comprehend this, if your black and born into a wealthy suburban household your chances are ALOT better off than rural southern white kid.

perhaps not. . .but i believe there are more white billionaires in america vs black ones when u adjust for population. . .that is my point. .
of course if Obama where white. . .he would be or reminds me of a jfk type so that means he might have sown up the nomination by now. . .

the democratic party has not been searching for no ideal black candidate(u must be drinking some strong koolaid),all partys wanna win. . so naturally they go with the best candidate. . of course the Republican party is a party of old white men and women. . .Obama or another strong black candidate would be the last person on their shortlist vs the democratic party

yea but we all know more black families in america vs white ones(pro rata for population) are either below the poverty line or just struggling to maintain. . .why do u compare a middle class black kid to a poor white kid?. . . thats apples and oranges...u should compare a poor inner city black kid to a poor rural white kid. . .stats show that if they both got their acts together and went for an interview the white kid will be more likely to be called back than the black one. . .in todays america. . i can pull up the data but am too lazy right now. .

u see i dont know why u feel like u know how the world is to a black person,when u have never walked in my shoes. . .i live in philadelphia. . am a young black male. .i want you to look up the murder rate of young black males in philly and most inner cities vs the so called rural white areas. . .now dont get me wrong,i am not passing blame just stating how things are in 2008 america. . .u see,the stats say am more likely to be shot at,stopped by cops,racially profiled,given longer jail sentences,likely to have less health care,fewer job options,more stressed,than u mr alex roney in your lil cozy world. . .so dont give me that crap. . .walk in my shoes once if u can then we can talk.

see the difference btw me and you is i live my life daily on the real while u just watch from the tv or afar. . .thats why u belittle obamas community service. . .as if we want another bush type priviledged nicompup in the white house or the stepford bitch called mrs mccain(anyone notice how fake she is?). . . i am a democrat so i am wit clinton or obama.. . whomever wins. . . .but obama transcends race plus i believe that if he was white he would have knocked ms clinton out a long time ago. . . cheers.

Or if Obama was white would he have the same appeal?and is generally likeable is faciliated by him being a minority

Alex u are beginning to sound like geraldine ferrarro. . .lol. . .listen its only a fool that would surmise that it is an advantage to be black in america. . .even today

Let me hit u with sum info. . .do you know that african immigrants to the u.s are the most educated of any type of immigrants,black white or asian that come to america. . .but do you know that after adjustments for language skills and other intangibles african immigrants still earn less than european or asian ones?

do you know that light skinned immigrants from the same country earn more than dark skinned ones in america. . .that is light skinned colombians or cubans or asians or whatever?

i mean the stats are there for everyone to see. . .why is it that all of a sudden obama is doing well because he is black,when everything and every group in america is geared towards eurocentric assimilation,of which black people are the only ones holding out and rightfully so. . .

the truth is that obama has worked hard to be where he is today. . .if that he is half white makes him more appealing to u. . .then that is a reflection of your own personal failing and perhaps hidden racism,because surely you dont think i loved the clintons in the 90's and still do today because they were white do u?. . . .or hoped kerry would win the nomination over al sharpton. . .just because kerry was white and i somehow liked white people overr poor ol al?

u see when u make such a premise as u do above,u enter into a slippery slope. . .honestly when i see obama a see a handsome,black jfk type individual. . .the more i read his life story the more inspired i get. . .i see his lovely kids and it reminds me of when jfk had lil kids in the white kouse. . .a time of perhaps innocence in america. . .of hope and dreams and no voodoo* economics like we have with bush today(apologies bush snr*). . . .that is why i like obama not cause he is black. . .but like i said if most white folks who want to vote for him like u alex,are only focusing on his being half white or whateva. . .then u need to look in the mirror a lil more closely and recognise that it is you that see him in terms of race. . .not the rest of us.

Leaving aside this idiotic debate for a minute - I have to say I am suprised that the richest 2 SA guys simply inherited their money. I wonder how many of the top 20 SA guys are actually self-made from business - surely a much higher proportion? How many from mining (which is now such a small part of the economy?). Where are the finance, software, logistics and construction success stories? This is simply a question, not a comment.

The selfmade billionaires who have made it big in much smaller economies seem much more impressive (even if they have had to do some essential political wheeling and dealing with the government to get ahead - just as the old SA mining families would have done). The Nigerian and Egyptian guys have done amazingly - and not from dodgy oil concessions / privitisations like in Russia - they would also have had to do it without the level of financial infrastructure available in SA.

Forgive my ignorance about Dangote - I assume he has a diversified range of investments (like Richard Branson) rather than a single monolithic business (like Bill Gates)?

^^ Yes it is diversified.

Sugar, Cement, Engineering, Telecoms, Transportation, Salt, Flour, Pasta, Port Operations, Agro Sacks and he has even showed interest in investing in some refineries or constructing one.

How is he able to dominate in so many areas? Much smarter / harder working than anyone else? Contacts? First Mover Advantage? - surely not in so many areas!

Nigeria has a fairly large economy. Who is successfully competing with him?

...And surely South Africa's comparatively large companies and stock exchange is because of its wealth distribution?

Given a certain level of GDP/C: If wealth distribution is:

Extremely skewed - a few dozen or hundred people/families own everything in enormous diversified portfolios and everyone else eats beans. Contacts and family connections dominate as there is little financial industry. I dont think this is South Africa. This sounds like parts of the Caucauses, Latin America or a lot of Africa.

Medium skewed - the wealth is overwelmingly held by a largish middle class - big enough to create significant domestic demand for goods and services, and to pool capital and professional skills for this to happen. This is South Africa.

Very small skew: Everyone has a similar standard of living, but because of no wealth concentration - corporate size and financial sophistication is limited. Limited range of services available due to similarity in standard of living. This is like eastern and southern Europe.

I havent been to Nigeria but it sounds like it would be somewhere between the first 2. I think India and China would be there too. More skewed than SA. More super rich, more poor and a smaller proportionate middle class than SA.

perhaps not. . .but i believe there are more white billionaires in america vs black ones when u adjust for population. . .that is my point. .
of course if Obama where white. . .he would be or reminds me of a jfk type so that means he might have sown up the nomination by now. . .

the democratic party has not been searching for no ideal black candidate(u must be drinking some strong koolaid),all partys wanna win. . so naturally they go with the best candidate. . of course the Republican party is a party of old white men and women. . .Obama or another strong black candidate would be the last person on their shortlist vs the democratic party

yea but we all know more black families in america vs white ones(pro rata for population) are either below the poverty line or just struggling to maintain. . .why do u compare a middle class black kid to a poor white kid?. . . thats apples and oranges...u should compare a poor inner city black kid to a poor rural white kid. . .stats show that if they both got their acts together and went for an interview the white kid will be more likely to be called back than the black one. . .in todays america. . i can pull up the data but am too lazy right now. .

u see i dont know why u feel like u know how the world is to a black person,when u have never walked in my shoes. . .i live in philadelphia. . am a young black male. .i want you to look up the murder rate of young black males in philly and most inner cities vs the so called rural white areas. . .now dont get me wrong,i am not passing blame just stating how things are in 2008 america. . .u see,the stats say am more likely to be shot at,stopped by cops,racially profiled,given longer jail sentences,likely to have less health care,fewer job options,more stressed,than u mr alex roney in your lil cozy world. . .so dont give me that crap. . .walk in my shoes once if u can then we can talk.

see the difference btw me and you is i live my life daily on the real while u just watch from the tv or afar. . .thats why u belittle obamas community service. . .as if we want another bush type priviledged nicompup in the white house or the stepford bitch called mrs mccain(anyone notice how fake she is?). . . i am a democrat so i am wit clinton or obama.. . whomever wins. . . .but obama transcends race plus i believe that if he was white he would have knocked ms clinton out a long time ago. . . cheers.

And would he get the 90+% of the African American vote? No I don't thinkso either. Of course their are more white billionaires in proportion their respective numbers thats because blacks are more disproportionantly poorer than whites. Thats my point, its hard to become a billionaire when you start from lower economic level.

I strongly disagree, and I don't like my cool aid with too much sugar. It ain't good for you on a hot summer day.

The issue is in America "black families" has almost become an oxymoron. And this is the BIGGEST issue affecting African Americans. The fact that over 40% of black kids are born to a mother outside of marriage speaks volumes. The ones who need to take a serious look at themselves are the countless thousands of black men who leave women without any child support and who are forced to work 2 jobs to provide for their children. 1 in 4 black kids are born into poverty and no one is doing a damn thing about it. Sharpton and Jackson rather blame the white establishment and corporate white america simply doesn't care.

First off while African Americans are disproportionantly poorer in absolute numbers their are more whites living below the poverty line. And the rural poor are materialistically worser off than in the Urban areas. The thing that plagues the cities are drugs, gangs, prostitution and poor schools. The latter is also the case in rural areas. Also don't play the victim card nor say that "I don't know what it is" Apart from the most of the people here who complain and bitch their seems to be a lot of talking and no one does anything about it but feel sorry for themselves. Do you know the community service programs I've done in South Central? Do you know the summer school classes I taught those kids in 8-9th grade? You talk about poverty, poverty for folks in Philadelfia include having food to eat, running water a cement floor. You want a reality check? Try having relatives of mine who don't have running water or my 86 year old grand father who receives a montly pension of $240 despite working 40 years of his life in a Mercedes Benz truck factory. Your in no condition to question on how "easy" I've had it or poor people or are not black.

The issue is in America "black families" has almost become an oxymoron. And this is the BIGGEST issue affecting African Americans. The fact that over 40% of black kids are born to a mother outside of marriage speaks volumes. The ones who need to take a serious look at themselves are the countless thousands of black men who leave women without any child support and who are forced to work 2 jobs to provide for their children. 1 in 4 black kids are born into poverty and no one is doing a damn thing about it. Sharpton and Jackson rather blame the white establishment and corporate white america simply doesn't care.

First off while African Americans are disproportionantly poorer in absolute numbers their are more whites living below the poverty line. And the rural poor are materialistically worser off than in the Urban areas. The thing that plagues the cities are drugs, gangs, prostitution and poor schools. The latter is also the case in rural areas. Also don't play the victim card nor say that "I don't know what it is" Apart from the most of the people here who complain and bitch their seems to be a lot of talking and no one does anything about it but feel sorry for themselves. Do you know the community service programs I've done in South Central? Do you know the summer school classes I taught those kids in 8-9th grade? You talk about poverty, poverty for folks in Philadelfia include having food to eat, running water a cement floor. You want a reality check? Try having relatives of mine who don't have running water or my 86 year old grand father who receives a montly pension of $240 despite working 40 years of his life in a Mercedes Benz truck factory. Your in no condition to question on how "easy" I've had it or poor people or are not black.


With respect, WTF does this have to do with the topic under discussion?

With respect, WTF does this have to do with the topic under discussion?

clive3300 this is standard Alex Roney style. His comments on black people speaks volumes about him. Do a search on all his views and descide if those who call him racist are mistaken

Thank you adebayoa, however I have no particular desire to investigate AR's background. I am trying to steer this debate back to its original topic and extend intelligent discussion from there.

As my on-topic posts seem to have had ilicited no response perhaps I should spice things up by pointing out that all South Africans are racists and all Nigerians live in caves. (just kidding for feck sake)

And would he get the 90+% of the African American vote? No I don't thinkso either

why do u sturbbornly stick to a false premise. . . how come bill clinton recieved 80% of the black vote in the 90's and kerry got 9/10 of the black vote in the last election. . .i hope u are not seriously implying that bill clinton and john kerry are black. . . .we are no more in the 1920;s you know where a white presidential candidate was rumored to be black. . .which made a lot of white voters not vote for him. . .at the time. .and below is what u need to look at in case u missed it. . .

the truth is that obama has worked hard to be where he is today. . .if that he is half white makes him more appealing to u. . .then that is a reflection of your own personal failing and perhaps hidden racism,because surely you dont think i loved the clintons in the 90's and still do today because they were white do u?. . . .or hoped kerry would win the nomination over al sharpton. . .just because kerry was white and i somehow liked white people overr poor ol al?

u see when u make such a premise as u do above,u enter into a slippery slope. . .honestly when i see obama a see a handsome,black jfk type individual. . .the more i read his life story the more inspired i get. . .i see his lovely kids and it reminds me of when jfk had lil kids in the white kouse. . .a time of perhaps innocence in america. . .of hope and dreams and no voodoo* economics like we have with bush today(apologies bush snr*). . . .that is why i like obama not cause he is black. . .but like i said if most white folks who want to vote for him like u alex,are only focusing on his being half white or whateva. . .then u need to look in the mirror a lil more closely and recognise that it is you that see him in terms of race. . .not the rest of us.

clive3300 this is standard Alex Roney style. His comments on black people speaks volumes about him. Do a search on all his views and descide if those who call him racist are mistaken

This is probably the 10th time you've made that claim, so for the 10th time I'll ask you to back it up with hard evidence and quotes. However no such a thing ever happens, I wonder why....

Every other african leader, present or past, is a billionaire. Why aint they on the Forbes list? Because they've stashed their countries' billions away in offshore accounts and what not. They suck money from you- their "brothers and sisters", and still the fucking morons believe all black billionaires get their money through honesty and hard work. Why are oil-rich Nigeria, it's neighbours and other mineral rich African countries still primitive??
Open your eyes you dumb sheep and stop praising your billionaires!

Final thought- "behind every fortune, is a crime"

Stop being smart when you are not. I doubt a decent and well educated white person would utter such comment without backing it up with facts.

The high magnitude of corruption and poverty in Africa is largely due to greed which create the good numbers of uneducated citizens.Those who are educated on various positions of leadership are irresponsible to use what they learnt to put things in the proper order whic I believe are to be more blamed for failure in every African institution, not those who are primitive - these are people who are less likely to effect any change for the turn around of things and as your calumny pointed out here is not the cause.

I think things will take their normal shapes with the new dispensation.

And would he get the 90+% of the African American vote? No I don't thinkso either. Of course their are more white billionaires in proportion their respective numbers thats because blacks are more disproportionantly poorer than whites. Thats my point, its hard to become a billionaire when you start from lower economic level.

I strongly disagree, and I don't like my cool aid with too much sugar. It ain't good for you on a hot summer day.

The issue is in America "black families" has almost become an oxymoron. And this is the BIGGEST issue affecting African Americans. The fact that over 40% of black kids are born to a mother outside of marriage speaks volumes. The ones who need to take a serious look at themselves are the countless thousands of black men who leave women without any child support and who are forced to work 2 jobs to provide for their children. 1 in 4 black kids are born into poverty and no one is doing a damn thing about it. Sharpton and Jackson rather blame the white establishment and corporate white america simply doesn't care.

First off while African Americans are disproportionantly poorer in absolute numbers their are more whites living below the poverty line. And the rural poor are materialistically worser off than in the Urban areas. The thing that plagues the cities are drugs, gangs, prostitution and poor schools. The latter is also the case in rural areas. Also don't play the victim card nor say that "I don't know what it is" Apart from the most of the people here who complain and bitch their seems to be a lot of talking and no one does anything about it but feel sorry for themselves. Do you know the community service programs I've done in South Central? Do you know the summer school classes I taught those kids in 8-9th grade? You talk about poverty, poverty for folks in Philadelfia include having food to eat, running water a cement floor. You want a reality check? Try having relatives of mine who don't have running water or my 86 year old grand father who receives a montly pension of $240 despite working 40 years of his life in a Mercedes Benz truck factory. Your in no condition to question on how "easy" I've had it or poor people or are not black.

As Clive3300 said, WTF does this have to do with the topic or anything in this forum?

Awesome, that's sweet! Wealthiest people in the world (http://100wealthiestpeople.blogspot.com/)

What's sweet? Bumping up this badly off-topic thread?

LOL...