Preserving and Promoting Non-Tagalog Philippine Languages [Archive] - Page 6

Askal82

July 8th, 2006, 02:45 AM

But the question is, is the taste of the viewing masses dictated by the local TV stations or are the TV stations merely responding to the taste of the masa--be it bakya crowd or otherwise? They are running a business. However, I also believe that they are doing the TV viewers a disfavor by just churning out banal or copycat TV shows. The TV station owners and producers should also be imbued with a certain responbility for public education and service. But, with the ratings game, it becomes pure, unaldulterated business enterprise to cater to the "kiliti ng masa" (what tickles the TV masses' fancy) sans the goal to educate and to illuminate. I so miss the show "Tatak Pilipino", "Travel Time", Julie Yap Daza's "Tell the People", etc. Before we even have these dubbed foreign soap operas, they shoud bring back shows of the calibre of those I previously mentioned.

Are telenovelas effective medium to promote the revival of the Spanish language in the Philippines? If these are just dubbed, then they are no different from the other telenovelas that are pandering to the vicarious thrills of the viewers. There is nothing wrong with that. The gauge should be the content of the storylines.

When I was back in the Philippines, the shows I usually watch are the late night journal shows. I love I-witness, Reporter's notebook, Jessica Soho reports, Debate and other shows where the journalists are making observations and anecdotes from their own experiences on the aspects of the Filipinos culture from politics, economy, tradition and history. The other show I love to watch is on ABC-5 about this program called 'Dokyu'. It's a contest for having the best documentary created by mere groups of college students where the requirement is to have a video camera and talent of creativity in writing a story for any topic or experience they wish to share to the viewers. Sadly, like you said, these are superb programs that doesn't have the 'kiliti' of the masa.

bustero

July 8th, 2006, 06:04 AM

oh nabuhay nanaman itong thread!

where is jose pepe when you need him.

tv stations are creatures of commerce they pander what the masses will buy. when they like hispanic telenovelas they bring them in, when they like f4 then they bring these in as well, (btw there's a big diff between the korean and taiwanese ones too, it's much larger then mexicans versus colombian ones!), in any case tastes change and now the masses will want something new again so perhaps recylcing south american telenovelas is the next big thing!

OtAkAw

July 8th, 2006, 10:20 AM

I agree. I tried watching those Asianovelas and they were not really my type. :D Have you heared about Paola Rey? Shes pretty too. :cheers1:

I havent yet but I do strongly believe that every Latin American woman who is shown in TV is prettier than the ten women next to her who came from other regions except for Latin America. Perhaps the fusion of Spanish/Portuguese and Native American (Maya, Nazca, Indians) genes produced a very beautiful outcome. The prettiest Latin American woman I have seen as of now is Alicia Machado of Venezuela.

Animo

July 17th, 2006, 02:40 AM

UNTIL now, there is no such thing as a "Filipino" language. The constitutional mandate to develop a Filipino language as the medium of instruction in schools has not been accomplished yet. In that sense, I can sympathize with GMA's order to suspend the use of "Filipino" as the medium in academia. My sympathies, however, end there.

What we do have at the moment is not "Filipino" but Tagalog, a regional language that is spoken in that part of the country where the capital city is. Tagalog is the lingua franca of Manila and its environs. In that sense, it is and was practical for our national leaders, many of whom are or were native Tagalog speakers like Quezon. But because we are a multi-cultural nation, it is not the lingua franca elsewhere.

Ethnic statistics will show that the Tagalogs do not necessarily comprise a demographic majority. And even if they do, Visayan speakers number not very far behind. Numbers alone, however, are not the basis of adopting a national language. We have seen that in Sri Lanka where the Sinhalese majority officially enacted a legislation that conferred on Sinhala the status of the sole official language of that country. The result is the devastating violence that country has had to endure between its ethnic majority and the minority Tamils.

While I agree with ethnolinguists who aver that more and more Filipinos can now speak and comprehend Tagalog, still that does not consider the fact that it is not a language of national scope and it can never be because that is not the reality of Filipino linguistic culture. As such, Tagalog remains a language of intrusion in non-Tagalog areas just as Visayan is intrusive in non-Visayan areas.

Language can be misused as a tool for cultural assimilation. It is not just the language that we imbibe but the culture of the speakers as well. For instance, Filipino television is so dismally Tagalog. Even articulate personalities such as Winnie Monsod and Oscar Orbos often have to remind their debating guests to argue in Tagalog. I presume it is because of the ratings. The views of non-Tagalog speakers can in no way be heard because those who have minimal facility with Tagalog will find it hard to enunciate. The result is having guests mostly from Manila who do not necessarily reflect the views of those from the provinces.

Language can also be a tool of imperialism. In the Philippine cultural reality where the lowland-highland dynamics between ethnic groups is still very much operative, often it is the lowland language that is accorded cultural acceptance over the highland language, often simply considered as a "dialect" when in truth it is not. We find that in northern Luzon where the mountain people have to contend with Ilocano even if this is not their simple everyday language. We also find that in Panay where Kinaray-a speakers shift to Ilonggo once they reach the city. In Mindanao, highlanders and Moro communities have to contend with Visayan widely spoken in the lowlands.

It is prejudicial for those who say that not speaking in the "wikang pambansa" is being un-nationalistic, unpatriotic. But what is national about Tagalog? Our use of Tagalog is very much reflective of our Manila-centric culture. I have had my own experiences. At one national historical conference, the speaker was a UP history professor who spoke in very academic Tagalog. At one point I could not help but interrupt to ask the meanings of words that sounded not Filipino but Greek.

I will cite what has already been referred to in this paper by UP anthropologist Dr. Michael L. Tan, who, last week mentioned the findings that a child easily learns a second language if he or she is already literate in the local language. The importance then of local language in instruction need not be underscored. Substituting Filipino with English may solve globalization needs, but not problems of comprehensive skills.

While it is true that local language has over the years found its way into the Tagalog vocabulary (such Visayan words as kuno and kawatan, among others), still that does not negate the fact that until now no legislative enactment has ever considered putting flesh into the constitutional mandate of developing a Filipino language.

Creating an "artificial language" is not new. That has been done before in the case of Esperanto, developed in 1887 by Lazarus Ludwig Zamenhof, a Polish oculist who wanted it used as a second international language (although present estimates of Esperanto speakers may deem it questionable, but that's another story). Perhaps developing a truly national language can be a pursuit the government can look into, a language where the words are derived from roots commonly found in Philippine languages.

Or are we still suffering the myopia of the Republika ng Katagalogan?

Comments to monta@sni.ph
http://www.inq7.net/globalnation/col_krm/2003/feb27.htm

Animo

July 17th, 2006, 02:42 AM

I havent yet but I do strongly believe that every Latin American woman who is shown in TV is prettier than the ten women next to her who came from other regions except for Latin America. Perhaps the fusion of Spanish/Portuguese and Native American (Maya, Nazca, Indians) genes produced a very beautiful outcome. The prettiest Latin American woman I have seen as of now is Alicia Machado of Venezuela.

This is evident in international beauty pagents. :D

Animo

July 17th, 2006, 02:43 AM

DOLE Ifugao trains applicants for Spain
By Jina Shirley G. Dacmay

Lagawe, Ifugao (10 July) -- With Spain opening its doors to Filipino
Overseas Workers (OFWs), the Department of Labor and Employment
(DOLE) Field Office here, is accepting applicants who are interested
to work in Spain for referral to a training in Conversational Spanish
Training.

The Conversational Spanish Training is a 40-hour training which
teaches basic Spanish to interested applicants in preparation for
jobs.

According to Isabelita Codamon, Ifugao DOLE Field Officer, skilled
workers are given priority in Spain. These include construction
workers, Hotel and Restaurant Management and metal works.

Codamon added the DOLE Field Office does not give financial
assistance. "The referral we give applicants will help them find more
decent jobs and also guarantees the legality of companies they work
with," she added.

Codamon said that aside from being conversational there are other
requirements needed like the age and skills requirements. DOLE
evaluate applicants before they are referred to companies in need.

As of press time, twenty individuals are listed for the Spanish
Conversational Training which will be conducted anytime this coming
months as scheduled by DOLE. (PIA)

http://www.pia.gov.ph/news.asp?fi=p060710.htm&no=15

Animo

July 17th, 2006, 02:44 AM

The Philippine Archipelago is made up of many islands, big and small. The biggest island of course if Luzon, and clustered beneath its southern tip is known as the Visayan Islands. Then further down we find the big island of Mindanao where the Muslim Filipinos are situated living side by side with the Christian Filipinos, many of whom “migrated” from Luzon during the late fifties. The post war government of President Elpidio Quirino made a campaign of sorts to ask Luzonians to “Go South” and make their future in Mindanao, which was teeming with opportunities in the logging, fishing, and agriculture industries. While these Filipino transferees from Luzon brought their families into land that was good and fertile land rich with deposits of precious metals and arable land, the one problem that they had to live with were the Muslims. Somehow over the decades both Christians and Muslims coexisted but uneasily.

When the question on what the Philippines should adopt as its National Language the problem became an issue and a difficult one.

Teresito ”Chito” Laygo, a Filipino mathematics professor who has migrated in California, and who now teaches Tagalog in the San Francisco State University, contributes this page in Philippine History.

When the Philippines became a Commonwealth, a constitution was drafted and ratified. One of its provisions was to develop a Philippine national language. It was stipulated in this constitution that the national language to be adopted must be based on one of the existing languages spoken by the people of the Philippines. (Researchers found that there are at least 85 languages and dialects in the Philippines) This constitutional mandate couched off a rapid succession of events toward its fulfillment. Consequently, the first national Assembly approved in a special session Commonwealth Act No. 184 on November 13, 1936, establishing the Institute of National Language and defining its powers and duties.

One of the duties of the Institute was to choose a native language, which is to be used as a basis for the evolution and adoption of the Philippine national language. (Take note that I mention a basis rather that the basis because there is a possibility that the proposed language may have multiple bases.) In proceeding to such election, “the Institute shall give preference to the language that is most developed as regards structure, mechanism and literature and is accepted and used at the present time by the greatest number of Filipinos.”1

The original composition of the Institute was as follows: Chairman: Jaime de Veyra, (Waray); Members: Santiago Fonacier, (Ilocano); Filemon Sotto, (Cebuano); Casimiro Perfecto, (Bicol); Felix Rodriguea, (Hiligaynon); Hadji Butu (Muslilm); and Cecilio Lopez, (Tagalog(, Secretary. It took the Institute ten months to select Tagalog as the basis of the national language.

The Institute had their criteria as the basis for their choice of the national language for the following reasons:

1) the language should be the most developed as regards structure, mechanism, and literature;

2) the language must be accepted and used by the greater number of Filipinos.

Tagalog and no other native languages (or dialects) satisfied both conditions.

Tagalog, was the most developed. As early as 1650m Fray Domingo Navarette a Dominican friar, made the following statement: “I learned the Tagalog language … without much difficulty … Within five months, we (Spanish friars) were confessing and preaching and in one year we were capable of both, and in discussing the affairs of the Indios with them.”2

Padre Chirino, in his 17th century Relacion de las Islas Pilipinas wrote:

I found in it (Tagalog) four qualities of the best languages of the world – Hebrew,

Greek, Latin and Spanish; of the Hebrew, the mysteries and obscurities; of the Greek,

The articles and the precision not only of the appellations but also the proper nouns;

Of Latin, the elegance; and of Spanish, the good breeding, politeness and Courtesy.

Professor Laygo further states that the extraordinarily rich system of affixes of Tagalog has a great deal to contribute to the unusual linguistic possibilities of the national language.

He adds that the official potential of Tagalog far exceeds those of the Malay language and other Filipino languages. Historically, the Philippine Islands formed part of the island chain attached to Indonesia and the Malay tongue is common to both Indonesian, Malaysians and early Filipinos. In fact, Tagalog grew out of the Malay language and alphabet.

The professor continues:

The versatility and function of Tagalog affixes can fully replace the combining and coining capacity of the neo-Latin and neo-Greek words for technical purposes.

Tagalog has a rich stock of indigenous and thoroughly assimilated root words for common non-technical use. The Vocabulario de la Lengual Tagala, compiled centuries ago by two Jesuit priests, Juan de Noceda and Pedro de San Lucas, has 20,000 root words of this mixed type.

Moreover, the Tagalog literature is full of studies supporting Tagalog as the best developed of all the native languages, from the Spanish era up to the period of the Commonwealth. In fact, in one of the earliest historical records available was a statement in 1618 of Spanish missionaries that “Tagalog is spoken and understood everywhere, not only by the natives of the island of Luzon, but also by the natives of all the islands.”3

In one of the census of the Philippines, it was found that, in spite of the fact that the Visayan ethnic group was larger than the Tagalog ethnic group, there were more Tagalog speakers than the Visayan speakers.

It is for these reasons that the Institute chose Tagalog as the basis of the national language.

It is with much gratitude that I acknowledge Professor Laygo’s sharing of this important historical perspective on Tagalog as our National Language in the Philippine Republic.

http://www.philippinenews.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=e4e73600c76656f6bc5a61971441d50c

Animo

July 17th, 2006, 03:03 AM

I JUST came from an Asian Studies Conference in Chicago and in one of the meetings, a presenter mentioned how much research had to be done in the Southeast Asian languages.

It was also suggested that linguistics scholars and classroom teachers should work together in research projects that have practical impact on the teaching and propagation of these languages.

Furthermore, it was mentioned that in the area of computer and digital technology, much remained to be done in Southeast Asian languages. At the conference, there was discussion and decision-making on grant writing for the production of electronic dictionaries both for written script and sounds.

Priority, however, was given for SE Asian languages which had their own scripts such as Thai, Khmer, Vietnamese, and others. Languages with Romanized alphabets such as Indonesian and Filipino were even relegated to a later schedule.

As far back as the late 80’s and early 90’s, Prof. Curtis D. McFarland of Waseda University started work on a list of most frequently used Tagalog words.

He culled these out from a larger list of words compiled on a computer. This so-called corpus was a large data base of Tagalog literature. Dr. McFarland then analyzed his list of 2000 most-used Tagalog words.

He pointed out that among these, 300 words were borrowed from Spanish and 50 were from English. He also mentioned that dictionaries simply identified borrowed words as English or Spanish without describing whether they were pronounced differently, or used in language shifts, or used with various meanings in Tagalog and in other Philippine languages.

These comments raised by McFarland could be starting points for research among Philippine language scholars. They could also start gathering more corpuses (corpora) of literature in Tagalog and other Philippine languages.

Furthermore, they could gather in data bases texts that are supposedly in the evolving national language – Filipino. We could perhaps investigate how the new Filipino differs from the older Tagalog.

We could also learn more about the vocabulary of the other Philippine languages and see if some can be adapted by the national language. We have a long way to go, but we start somehow.

Send comments/questions to: lpaz@ccsf.edu.
http://www.philippinenews.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=8d3e548d7eb5da7b716f57942f2da43d

bustero

July 17th, 2006, 05:14 AM

hmmm, interesting article. Here I was thinking that Manuel L. Quezon just rammed it down everyone's throats as popular belief had it ! :) These guys were actively thinking about it back then and had serious and reasonable criteria to evaluate it.

The Philippine Archipelago is made up of many islands, big and small. The biggest island of course if Luzon, and clustered beneath its southern tip is known as the Visayan Islands. Then further down we find the big island of Mindanao where the Muslim Filipinos are situated living side by side with the Christian Filipinos, many of whom “migrated” from Luzon during the late fifties. The post war government of President Elpidio Quirino made a campaign of sorts to ask Luzonians to “Go South” and make their future in Mindanao, which was teeming with opportunities in the logging, fishing, and agriculture industries. While these Filipino transferees from Luzon brought their families into land that was good and fertile land rich with deposits of precious metals and arable land, the one problem that they had to live with were the Muslims. Somehow over the decades both Christians and Muslims coexisted but uneasily.

When the question on what the Philippines should adopt as its National Language the problem became an issue and a difficult one.

Teresito ”Chito” Laygo, a Filipino mathematics professor who has migrated in California, and who now teaches Tagalog in the San Francisco State University, contributes this page in Philippine History.

When the Philippines became a Commonwealth, a constitution was drafted and ratified. One of its provisions was to develop a Philippine national language. It was stipulated in this constitution that the national language to be adopted must be based on one of the existing languages spoken by the people of the Philippines. (Researchers found that there are at least 85 languages and dialects in the Philippines) This constitutional mandate couched off a rapid succession of events toward its fulfillment. Consequently, the first national Assembly approved in a special session Commonwealth Act No. 184 on November 13, 1936, establishing the Institute of National Language and defining its powers and duties.

One of the duties of the Institute was to choose a native language, which is to be used as a basis for the evolution and adoption of the Philippine national language. (Take note that I mention a basis rather that the basis because there is a possibility that the proposed language may have multiple bases.) In proceeding to such election, “the Institute shall give preference to the language that is most developed as regards structure, mechanism and literature and is accepted and used at the present time by the greatest number of Filipinos.”1

The original composition of the Institute was as follows: Chairman: Jaime de Veyra, (Waray); Members: Santiago Fonacier, (Ilocano); Filemon Sotto, (Cebuano); Casimiro Perfecto, (Bicol); Felix Rodriguea, (Hiligaynon); Hadji Butu (Muslilm); and Cecilio Lopez, (Tagalog(, Secretary. It took the Institute ten months to select Tagalog as the basis of the national language.

The Institute had their criteria as the basis for their choice of the national language for the following reasons:

1) the language should be the most developed as regards structure, mechanism, and literature;

2) the language must be accepted and used by the greater number of Filipinos.

Tagalog and no other native languages (or dialects) satisfied both conditions.

Tagalog, was the most developed. As early as 1650m Fray Domingo Navarette a Dominican friar, made the following statement: “I learned the Tagalog language … without much difficulty … Within five months, we (Spanish friars) were confessing and preaching and in one year we were capable of both, and in discussing the affairs of the Indios with them.”2

Padre Chirino, in his 17th century Relacion de las Islas Pilipinas wrote:

I found in it (Tagalog) four qualities of the best languages of the world – Hebrew,

Greek, Latin and Spanish; of the Hebrew, the mysteries and obscurities; of the Greek,

The articles and the precision not only of the appellations but also the proper nouns;

Of Latin, the elegance; and of Spanish, the good breeding, politeness and Courtesy.

Professor Laygo further states that the extraordinarily rich system of affixes of Tagalog has a great deal to contribute to the unusual linguistic possibilities of the national language.

He adds that the official potential of Tagalog far exceeds those of the Malay language and other Filipino languages. Historically, the Philippine Islands formed part of the island chain attached to Indonesia and the Malay tongue is common to both Indonesian, Malaysians and early Filipinos. In fact, Tagalog grew out of the Malay language and alphabet.

The professor continues:

The versatility and function of Tagalog affixes can fully replace the combining and coining capacity of the neo-Latin and neo-Greek words for technical purposes.

Tagalog has a rich stock of indigenous and thoroughly assimilated root words for common non-technical use. The Vocabulario de la Lengual Tagala, compiled centuries ago by two Jesuit priests, Juan de Noceda and Pedro de San Lucas, has 20,000 root words of this mixed type.

Moreover, the Tagalog literature is full of studies supporting Tagalog as the best developed of all the native languages, from the Spanish era up to the period of the Commonwealth. In fact, in one of the earliest historical records available was a statement in 1618 of Spanish missionaries that “Tagalog is spoken and understood everywhere, not only by the natives of the island of Luzon, but also by the natives of all the islands.”3

In one of the census of the Philippines, it was found that, in spite of the fact that the Visayan ethnic group was larger than the Tagalog ethnic group, there were more Tagalog speakers than the Visayan speakers.

It is for these reasons that the Institute chose Tagalog as the basis of the national language.

It is with much gratitude that I acknowledge Professor Laygo’s sharing of this important historical perspective on Tagalog as our National Language in the Philippine Republic.

http://www.philippinenews.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=e4e73600c76656f6bc5a61971441d50c

xDieselJockx

July 17th, 2006, 07:01 AM

bitoy

July 17th, 2006, 06:21 PM

English to be fully restored as medium of instruction
By Ding Cervantes
The Philippine Star 07/18/2006
(http://philstar.com/philstar/News200607180403.htm)
CLARK FIELD, Pampanga — Incoming Education Secretary Tarlac Rep. Jesli Lapus said here yesterday he will fully restore English as the medium of instruction in the country to upgrade the quality of education and make it "market-driven." ...............................

habagatcentral1

July 19th, 2006, 11:56 AM

It seems that when it comes to the issue of Filipino languages, since its the post-modern era as some academicians say...then, there is a right to question regarding the imperial Tagalog.

UP has considered Cebuano, Ilonggo/Hiligaynon, Ilocano, Kapampangan, Waray, Bikol, Maranao and a whole lot more as languages and not dialects.

Ask me if Tagalog was successful in integrating the country...It was somewhat yes and no. VisMinda speaks and understands Bisaya, Hiligaynon and Waray. Its almost the LinguaFranca of Mindanao Island. Cotabato City got the exception of it since because of a very culturaly diverse city, they use Tagalog as a lingua franca.

There is still more to come.

Español es muy importante en leer archivos en las islas filipinas (damaged na...sorry. I haven't spoken Spanish since second year college sa Span Class)

Wind Shear

July 19th, 2006, 02:16 PM

Español es muy importante en leer archivos en las islas filipinas (damaged na...sorry. I haven't spoken Spanish since second year college sa Span Class)

Heck, I self-studied Spanish way back my high school days.

But don't worry, your statement en español is correct. It means "Spanish is very important to read the archives about Philippine Islands".

It might be more grammatically correct if you say: Español es muy importante idioma para leer los archivos en las islas filipinas.

habagatcentral1

July 19th, 2006, 02:27 PM

Heck, I self-studied Spanish way back my high school days.

But don't worry, your statement en español is correct. It means "Spanish is very important to read the archives about Philippine Islands".

It might be more grammatically correct if you say: Español es muy importante idioma para leer los archivos en las islas filipinas.

Thanks for the correction. I'm a history major graduate myself and whenever I go to the National Archives for research....nakakahilo, Español viejo na kasi. (Don't get me wrong, di pa ako prof, 20 pa lang ako,hehehe!)

Animo

July 19th, 2006, 10:13 PM

^^ I agree. :rock:

Animo

July 19th, 2006, 10:14 PM

LEGAZPI CITY, July 11 Asia Pulse - The Union of Local authorities of the Philippines (ULAP) recently urged the national government to revive the teaching of Spanish language in all public and private universities and colleges in the country, a ranking official of ULAP said Tuesday.

Albay Vice Governor James Calisin, ULAP spokesman, said ULAP members have unanimously passed a resolution asking the national government to promote and support the teaching of the Spanish language by including the subject in university and college curricula.

In his report before members of the Sangguniang Panlalawigan (SP) of Albay, Calisin said the Spanish language can be a major vehicle for international communication for trade and tourism.

The resolution declared that the Philippines has long and deep historical ties with Spain and many of the country's historical documents are written in the Spanish language.

Calisin told his colleagues in the provincial legislative board that studies showed the history and culture can be best appreciated and understood if the students learn how to read and speak the Spanish language.

He noted that the Spanish language is spoken by more than 400 million people worldwide, and it is in growing demand in Europe and North America, where it is now the second most widely spoken language.

In its resolution, the ULAP urged the Commission on Higher Education to study the implementation of the program and provide the youth a better tool for international communication.

Calisin expressed optimism that President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo would favour the proposal since the country recently forged close ties with Spain, which she visited last month.

(PNA)
http://au.biz.yahoo.com/060711/17/spdt.html

Animo

July 19th, 2006, 10:18 PM

FROM "THE VARSITARIAN", THE OFFICIAL STUDENT PUBLICATION OF THE PONTIFICAL AND ROYAL UNIVERSITY OF SANTO TOMAS.
By Myla Jasmine U. Bantog

"Three hundred and fifty years of Spanish presence in the Philippines was not enough to make Spanish language popular among Filipinos."

This is the the sad reality that the Spanish language faces in the country, one of many former Spanish colonies. During the Marcos Regime in 1973, Spanish ceased to be an official language in the Philippines. It became non-cumpolsary in the college curriculum in 1987.

Until the 1960's , Spanish was a 24-unit subject in UST, when the university was still headed by the Spanish Dominicans. The units were then decreased to 12, and in the early 80's, Spanish became the six-unit subject that it is today. Now, only the Faculty of Arts and Letters, College of Education,(Institute of Tourism and Hospitality Management), College of Science excluding Applied Physics and the Pharmacy program of the Faculty of Pharmacy offer Spanish subjects.

Prof. Rogelio Obusan, a Spanish instructor from the Faculty of Arts and Letters(UST), said there is a lack of support and interest in the Spanish language. Students find no need to study Spanish since the language is seldom used in the counrtry. This explains why Spanish units were reduced to six: 3 for Spanish 1(Elementary Spanish) and 3 for Spanish 2(Intermediate Spanish).
One problem for Spanish education in UST is the lack of instructional materials, particularly a textbook for Spanish 2. Spanish 1 students use "Tu y Yo", a textbook authored by Josefina Gonzalez, Luningning Ferrer and Miguela Miguel, Spanish instructors from UST.

Obusan claims that Spanish instruction here(UST) already uses the communicative approach , or the use of conversations. and dialogues. However, he reiterated that the six-unit course is not enough to learn Spanish. Audiovisual materials are seldom used.

"But audiovisual maerials cannot be used until the students have a basic knolwldge in the Spanish grammar," Fernando Ramos, a visiting Spanish teacher in UST, explained. "These materials must only keep the interest of the class."

The decline of Spanish professors in UST also poses a challenge in the Spanish instruction. Today, there are only 10 professors in Spanish, one of whom is a visiting professor(from Instituto Cervantes). Of these 10, five are extendees.

"But the Agencia de Española de Operacion Internacional sends a professor to teach (Spanish) in UST every two years. So after two years, there will be a new one," Obusan said.

Until Spanish instruction in the university becomes creative and dynamic, going beyond the rote and boredom of tradtional pedagogy, interest in the language among younger generations of Filipinos would continue to wane and waver.

Ratoncito

July 20th, 2006, 02:53 AM

Efectivamente, creo que Filipinas debería recuperar lo que fue hasta hace 50 años, su idioma nacional.

No supone introducir un idioma nuevo sino recuperar algo que ha sido propio de Filipinas durante 400 años.

Saludos
Ratoncito

bitoy

July 20th, 2006, 03:50 AM

"Three hundred and fifty years of Spanish presence in the Philippines was not enough to make Spanish language popular among Filipinos."

Is the author blaming the Filipinos? Kung ayaw na, eh di ayaw na. Most Filipinos have decided to themselves that it is a waste of time.

I was subjected to Spanish class/subjects in Aquinas School since elementary/High school then at UST for 24 units in Faculty of Engineering plus the regular Spanish conversations at home, now, why am I against reviving Spanish subject in schools:

Is it really important now for everyone to learn Spanish?

Instead of Spanish subject, why not make other subjects relevant to a student's future that he can use for the rest of his life. Darn, I'll take "Cooking subjects" if they offered that in Engineering instead.

Only those student that needs foreign languages courses should take Spanish courses. Also those interested in Filipino/Spanish history can take them.

Animo

July 21st, 2006, 04:36 AM

overtureph

July 21st, 2006, 09:04 AM

GLIMPSES
What educates and what does not

By Jose Ma. Montelibano
INQ7.net
Last updated 03:03am (Mla time) 07/21/2006

A POPULAR American, then First Lady and now a senator from New York, once said that it takes a village to raise a child. Her statement has been widely accepted, and it is not because Hilary Clinton is who she is but more because what she said resonates with soundness.

If we are to agree that it takes a village to raise a child, what will it take to educate millions of students? Many, especially those who are so eager for Filipinos to better qualify as call center employees, say that making English the medium of instruction will turn things around for a mediocre educational system and studentry. All of a sudden, it now shifts away from the principle that it takes a village to raise a child towards attributing failure or success to the absence or presence of English as the medium of instruction.

While an incoming Secretary of Education is attributed with the intent to make English the medium of instruction, he only articulates what many others have said before him. Those who disagree with him for different reasons cannot blame him for an original thought or sentiment. But they can possibly blame him for forgetting that it takes a village, not English, to raise a child. Teaching in English or Filipino has bearing but
is not the crux of the matter. It is the environment of the home and the community that sets the perspective of a child more than the language of instruction.

So much criticism has been leveled at the quality of education that the public school system delivers. From the beginning, criticisms of this sort squarely put total accountability on the shoulders of the educational system and its public school teachers. But a second and a third look are needed if only to respect the fact that the principal players include the students themselves. It is not only who is teaching that dictates the
quality of learning. It is also who is learning that becomes a critical factor in the quality of education.

True, the quality of education must be the greater responsibility of adults, especially teachers and school administrators. Public schools, however, operate within an even greater social and political system. It rests not solely, maybe not even largely, on public school teachers to decide the parameters of teaching. Budgets are estimated and requested by teachers, but it is the prerogative of other officials of government to approve, to reduce, to increase or eliminate what is being asked.

Even more than budgets, however, are the villages that raise the children. More than anything else, it is the home and community environment that sets the learning, or non-learning, framework of the students. It is not so much the technical content of subject matters that provide the most education but the physical and moral quality of the environment that raises the students.

How does one teach hygiene to a student without water in his home? How does one teach a virtue, like honesty, to those who have never seen it from their parents or their communities? Calling it hygiene, or "kalinisan," calling it honesty, or "katotohanan," hardly makes a difference. It is less the language than the quality of life, and shifting to English without shifting to a higher quality of life simply creates more English-speaking non-performers.

The shift to English is market-driven, they say. Is a shift to dignity and decency from mendicancy and abject poverty not more fundamental than what the market demands? Is a shift to honesty and integrity from opportunism and corruption not more crucial than the literary medium of instruction?

Virtues and vices are taught by example, not by language. Virtues and vices dictate how instructions are interpreted and applied. An innocent student would take a knife and prepare food with it. A juvenile delinquent would stab someone with it. What difference will English or Filipino make, except to say ouch or "aray"?

It is laudable that public officials are concerned about what the market wants. It will even be more laudable if they are concerned about what a nation needs. More than English-speaking citizens, responsible and productive ones are needed. And poverty with its slums and survival mode of living will not produce responsibility and production.

There is basis for using English as the medium of instruction, just as there is basis for using Filipino -- or Bisaya, for that matter. But a crook, a liar and a cheat will be a crook, liar or a thief in any language. What matters more is whether a student lives in dignity or not, whether a student has a decent home or a shanty, whether an environment is
nurturing or criminal.

Dismantle poverty and opportunity takes its place. Opportunity provides choices, and choices raise the quality of life. The improved quality of life induces higher aspirations, and higher aspirations drive greater achievements. Language is peripheral, and progress is witnessed not only in English-speaking countries but also in Japan, in France, in Germany and in China, among others as well.

It is not English, or Filipino, that will save a sinking and troubled nation, but hard-working, honest and honorable Filipinos. It is not technology, but morality. It is not increased income, but better examples from our leaders and elders. It is not foreign investments, but local sacrifice. It is not ambition, but heroism.

Responses can be sent to jlmglimpses@gmail.com

Copyright 2006 INQ7.net. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://opinion.inq7.net/inq7viewpoi...rticle_id=10936

bitoy

July 21st, 2006, 12:57 PM

The younger Filipinos today may see differently what you have fought for in the 60's and 70's. It was political will that enabled the language of Cervantes to be of no use to the Filipinos. Now it is up to political will on the part of Filipinos who want to preserve the Spanish language and their national Hispanic heritage in the present times. Let us now see if President Gloria M. Arroyo can bring back Spanish as she recently announced.

If learning Spanish will guarantee food to the plate of every Filipinos, then I'll go for that. But so far, please be aware of the real world or be practical(gasgas na itong term na ito), and you guys really need to let go of your wildest dream that something from the past can comeback.

JustHorace

July 21st, 2006, 01:32 PM

ikra

July 21st, 2006, 01:33 PM

true... even though spanish is a rising commodity in terms of the 2nd most used language in teh world...english is never going to be replaced... english is good enough for us. At this point of time reforming spanish language into school is not the thing we need, rather use the money on it.. use it on something else.

Although i dont have anything aginst us learning the spanish language, its a good thing imo.. Its just that at this point in time, that is not the educational reform i want to hear... all over the philippines, there is a large educational inequality.. private schools to public schools... although we get nsat, we dont get that in high school, and it truely shows benchmarking of the different schools. Some schools would get better results than the other ones because their subjects and topics are structured better, some schools especially the lowly funded ones tend to get bottom. Childern of our nation doesnt deserve this.

Plus i dont know why the discussion of teachers punishing students has not come up, 2 students have died in the space of 6 months because of cruelty from their teachers. I just think its absolutely disgusting that teachers do this, when they shouldn't... punishing young children at school so harshly is wrong, its not the way that you put discipline in a child.. its up to the parents. the best thing teachers can do is talk to the child and tell their parents.. not let them eat pencil shavings or bang their heads against the wall..

horrifying

bitoy

July 21st, 2006, 02:04 PM

Learning Spanish can help in the long term.
If you're worrying about the costs...we can have different groups to cover that for the government (Real Academia, UN, Spanish and Latin NGOs, rich Spanish-Filipino businessmen, the Spanish government, etc.)

It is not the cost, the effect is what I was talking about.
Are the students clamoring to bring back Spanish subjects? I don't think so. When it was remove from the curriculum by DEC, I thought it was unfair to those who have taken them, like me, but the students were very glad that they don't have to take those extra subjects. Until I realize, only few are speaking Spanish, even my relatives who are in the nth degree of almost pure Espanola’s seldom speak them anymore. So, what's the use for it? Since most tagalog and other dialects have incorporated Spanish words on them, then I think there is no need for EVERYONE to learn that subject. Only those interested and who are in need should take them.

JustHorace

July 21st, 2006, 02:27 PM

bitoy

July 21st, 2006, 02:38 PM

JustHorace

July 21st, 2006, 03:59 PM

OtAkAw

July 21st, 2006, 04:43 PM

Even though i strongly support the revitalization of Spanish in the country since it is a BIG PART of our nationhood, I believe all of us supporters should first pass ourselves through a needle's hole, there may be believers but double them and that would be the amount of detractors. Majority of Filipinos still believe that Spaniards were demons who did nothing but molest the nation.

Animo

July 21st, 2006, 04:56 PM

If learning Spanish will guarantee food to the plate of every Filipinos, then I'll go for that. But so far, please be aware of the real world or be practical(gasgas na itong term na ito), and you guys really need to let go of your wildest dream that something from the past can comeback.

Learning Spanish can help in the long term.
If you're worrying about the costs...we can have different groups to cover that for the government (Real Academia, UN, Spanish and Latin NGOs, rich Spanish-Filipino businessmen, the Spanish government, etc.)

I agree with CosmoManila. There are Spanish agencies that gives money soley for the teaching of Spanish in the Philippines. This is not a drastic change, but when it is implemented who knows in the next 50 or 100 years the Philippines can once again utilize Spanish, English, and Filipino with fluency.

bitoy

July 21st, 2006, 07:42 PM

One's language is part of his culture. Why do you have to refer to it as "my culture" when it's ours? Spanish is part of our culture. Losing it is also losing a part of us. You can't be a Filipino when you choose to turn back on something that makes one a Filipino.

Do you speak Spanish fluently at home and in your day to day activities with other people?
I said before that Spanish words have been assimilated already in our national language and dialects.

Let me ask you, What makes a Filipino? Will you have the same answer as when you ask The Aetas of the north, the people of central Luzon, Visayas, the negritos and our brother/sister Muslims in the South?
They are all Filipinos to me, I don't know about you.

bitoy

July 21st, 2006, 07:51 PM

I agree with CosmoManila. There are Spanish agencies that gives money soley for the teaching of Spanish in the Philippines. This is not a drastic change, but when it is implemented who knows in the next 50 or 100 years the Philippines can once again utilize Spanish, English, and Filipino with fluency.

"In the long term" and "who knows in the next 50 or 100 years"

Those are great expectations! I got to hand it to you guys of hoping for the best.

Just a note that Spanish subjects has been taught for so many years in The Philippines since whenever the Spaniards established their first school and until (the Marcos era in the 80?) when it was removed.

Animo

July 21st, 2006, 08:02 PM

"In the long term" and "who knows in the next 50 or 100 years"

Those are great expectations! I got to hand it to you guys of hoping for the best.

Just a note that Spanish subjects has been taught for so many years in The Philippines since whenever the Spaniards established their first school and until (the Marcos era in the 80?) when it was removed.

Thank you. We only hope for the better future of our country. Filipino mentality changes overtime. History is being corrected and improved. May the future generations of Filipinos understand and bring back the glory of the Philippines. I hope that the spirit of the older generation guide our country as they die and pass the torch to the new ones.

Louman

July 22nd, 2006, 04:49 AM

Losing Spanish means losing a part of being Filipino? I thought it was the other way around. I find no use in bringing back Spanish in the Philippines. From what I see, the more Spanish culture is introduced in the Philippines, the more of our indeginous culture is lost. (Oh wait.. I think that already happened for some people.) You don't see the Indonesians wanting to bring back the Dutch language in their country or changing Jakarta back to Batavia. Indonesia, just like us, is an archapelago and have a diverse amount of languages as we do. Unfortunately, one of their indeginous languages was chosen over the other, just like us. Ancient wars in Korea, Japan, and China were fought so that one culture and language could dominate. In the long term, more and more people will accept Tagalog as the unifying national language instead of wanting to bring back Spanish. Leave the translation of old Spanish documents to translators, not the Pilipino people.

JustHorace

July 22nd, 2006, 12:20 PM

Do you speak Spanish fluently at home and in your day to day activities with other people?
I said before that Spanish words have been assimilated already in our national language and dialects.

Let me ask you, What makes a Filipino? Will you have the same answer as when you ask The Aetas of the north, the people of central Luzon, Visayas, the negritos and our brother/sister Muslims in the South?
They are all Filipinos to me, I don't know about you.

Hey, I'm someone who's willing to learn.

Those Filipinos you mentioned were those who least assimilated the Spanish culture. However, they do not make up the majority of the population. We must keep ourselves open to whatever opportunities that'll come to us. And I believe that learning Spanish is an opportunity. An opportunity to enrich our culture and establish our long lost ties with millions of other Hispanics in the world. It's an opportunity to take advantage of our educational and economic potencials. Bringing back Spanish is a start. If a puny Timor-Leste can do it, then so can the Philippines.

bitoy

July 22nd, 2006, 04:34 PM

Hey, I'm someone who's willing to learn.

Those Filipinos you mentioned were those who least assimilated the Spanish culture. However, they do not make up the majority of the population. We must keep ourselves open to whatever opportunities that'll come to us. And I believe that learning Spanish is an opportunity. An opportunity to enrich our culture and establish our long lost ties with millions of other Hispanics in the world. It's an opportunity to take advantage of our educational and economic potencials. Bringing back Spanish is a start. If a puny Timor-Leste can do it, then so can the Philippines.

Sure, you are willing to learn, but what about the other (THOSE) Filipinos?

I just sensed a sort of alienation attitude in your part when you lay down the term "Those Filipinos", if you believed that you are part of the majority of the population, I guess you can speak for the majority.

And if that, as you said puny Timor-Leste can do it, is because they can and they did.

As I said before "Spanish subjects has been taught for hundreds of years in The Philippines since whenever the Spaniards established their first school and until (the Marcos era in the 80?) when it was removed." - and still we did not adopt it.

And we are not Hispanics, we are Filipinos!

Animo

July 22nd, 2006, 06:45 PM

Losing Spanish means losing a part of being Filipino? I thought it was the other way around. I find no use in bringing back Spanish in the Philippines.

Here is a list that I can think of:

- Trade with Latin America. Think MERCOSUR.
- Spanish call centers. I know that they get paid 2 times as much as English speakers.
- Historical value
- Gateway to Europe by Spain (communication)
- Cultural value

From what I see, the more Spanish culture is introduced in the Philippines, the more of our indeginous culture is lost. (Oh wait.. I think that already happened for some people.)

Spanish culture or hispanism is already a done deal. Its already finished. It can be seen in every part of the Philippines and its effects around the country. Have you ever thought that why Filipino deem Filipino culture to be inferior to other is because they themselves don't know what it is. I see a lot of Filipino compare themselves to the Chinese and Japanes or whatever.

You don't see the Indonesians wanting to bring back the Dutch language in their country or changing Jakarta back to Batavia. Indonesia, just like us, is an archapelago and have a diverse amount of languages as we do.

Unlike them, christianization was a real and strong motive for the Spanish Crown. It was not the only motive, and its intensity varied throughout the colonial era. But it was a major eason behind those countless missions of exploration and discovery. Also, other South-east Asian countries had already a strong culture than the pre-hispanic Filipinos. Think Hindu and Islam. Compared to the animistic and sovereign kingdoms in the Philippines.

Unfortunately, one of their indeginous languages was chosen over the other, just like us. Ancient wars in Korea, Japan, and China were fought so that one culture and language could dominate. In the long term, more and more people will accept Tagalog as the unifying national language instead of wanting to bring back Spanish. Leave the translation of old Spanish documents to translators, not the Pilipino people.

No one wants to eliminate the native languages. Even before the arrival of the English language in our country both Spanish and Native languages were used. You can find Philippine literature both in Spanish and the vernacular.

Lets take a look at cuisine:

Here are some of the results done by a cultural anthropologist about
Filipino cuisine and I quote:

1. "....the consensus of Filipinos and American food critics is that
when Westerners think of Asian cuisine, 'Whether it is Thai, Burmese,
Indonesian', they always associate it with indigenous spices, 'which
Philippine cuisine does not have' (martel 1997)

(Source: Zialcita, "Why Insist On An Asian Flavor" p. 1.)

2. " A pan-Spanish way of cooking present in Spanish-inflenced
countries are such habits like sauteeing in garlic, onions and
tomatoes or stewing (puchero, cocido)..."

(Source: Zialcita,"Why Insist On Asian Flavor: The Hispanic World"
p.20)

3. "those who identify 'Asia' with complex seasoning find Tagalog or
Visayan cooking 'uninteresting' because of the restrained seasoning.
Worse still as unoriginal. Unfortunately, they overlook the
distinguishing feature of Lowland Christian Filipino cuisine which is
not the seasoning, but the fondness for sour flavors... the sour is
used as a foil against the texture of fat and oil... Adobo and paksiw
both pickle meat and fish in vinegar, pepper and garlic before
cooking them..."

(source: Zialcita, "Why Insist On An Asian Flavor"p. 15-16)

And finally, another conclusion which I equally share:

"Simplistic notions of what Asia is and should be in relation to the
West have succeeded in marginalizing, on the international scene, the
achievements of Lowland Christian Filipinos, not only in cuisine, but
in the arts as well. They have also succeeded in making many educated
lowland Christian Filipinos apologetic about their culture when they
reflect on it and have to articulate it before outsiders. Often they
assume that since the costume, the music, the architecture, and the
literature of lowland Christian Filipinos have an obvious Hispanic
component, they cannot be Asian, for to be Asian means to be non-
Western. Therefore, they cannot be 'authentic' either, for to be in
Asia means thinking and behaving like a true Asian. Thus the anguish
in defining the Christian Filipino's identity..."

(Source: Zialcita, "Why Insist On An Asian Flavor". p.2-3)

In other words, the very denial by the Filipinos of their own culture
because of their never ending quest for what's indigenous created
their identity problems. When everything has to be measured according
to the culture of their neighbors but not their own and use blame to
reject the outcome of history for what's politically correct. Then
there is no Filipino Nation to fight for because the factual Filipino
identity was not allowed to exist in the first place.

But everything is not for naught because the gradual uncovering of
the true basis of what makes a Filpino possible is happening in
Filipino intellectual circles. Excepting of course the intractable
myth makers of the most purist kind. There is no hope for them and
they can continue decolonizing who they are until hell freezes over.

From josepepe

---

I just got back from Indonesia -- a country I have been visiting for
years. I know aspects of it rather well because of my friends, students
and my reading. Once more these things come out:

1) At least in Java and Sumatra, a taste for sourness is disliked. But
this is precisely what characterizes Tagalog cooking and some aspects of
Ilonggo/ Cebuano cooking. The idea of cooking in vinegar, as in adobo and
paksiw, repels my students. They have a version of sinigang called "sayur
asam." Asam means both "sour" and "tamarind." But they sweeten the
sourness of the tamarind with sugar!

2) Garlic is also used in their cooking. Same word as here: "bawang."
Onion is "bawang putih" (white bulb). But they don't use it as much as we
Tagalogs and Visayans do. Like we enjoy sauteeing (guisa) our noodles and
fish in garlic. We even sprinkle raw garlic on our lumpia (spring rolls).
Not them.

Why the difference? The use of garlic for sauteeing is nto indigenous to
Luzon and Visayas. The main flavoring, according to the early 16th-27th
century accounts, was SALT. Plus presumably with patis and bagoong --
both of which are common throughout Southeeast Asia. The reasoin we like
garlic is because we have assimilated this very Mediterranean habit --
Spain, Southern France and Italy -- and made it our own.

3) Our pancit and other dishes are cooked with "achuete." We are unique in
the region for doing so. Why so? Because of Mexican influence.

From Prof. Fernando Zialcita

ReDeYEs

July 22nd, 2006, 08:20 PM

ikra

July 23rd, 2006, 02:41 AM

filipinos are south east asians... weve got more malay blood than you think... indeonesian, negritos, chinese, but not pacific islanders... oh no no no...

JustHorace

July 23rd, 2006, 12:59 PM

Sure, you are willing to learn, but what about the other (THOSE) Filipinos?

I just sensed a sort of alienation attitude in your part when you lay down the term "Those Filipinos", if you believed that you are part of the majority of the population, I guess you can speak for the majority.

And if that, as you said puny Timor-Leste can do it, is because they can and they did.

As I said before "Spanish subjects has been taught for hundreds of years in The Philippines since whenever the Spaniards established their first school and until (the Marcos era in the 80?) when it was removed." - and still we did not adopt it.

And we are not Hispanics, we are Filipinos!

It's just a relative pronoun! What's wrong with that?! I don't like your way of interpreting replies. It seems like you feel that my replies are against the Filipino people and are un-nationalistic. I'm just trying to share what i think about putting Spanish back to its official status. And if you don't want it back, then fine! It's your own opinion.

And so you ask, did we adopt it? We did adopt it. It was the official language of the first independent republic. It was the language of commerce and government in the early to mid-20th century. The Spanish language entertained the Filipino throughout the American period and as well as in the 50s and 60s. It was becoming a common household language during the postwar years. Birth certificates and other government documents were still written in Spanish just a few years prior to its abolishment in 1973.

xDieselJockx

July 23rd, 2006, 02:37 PM

Learning Spanish can help in the long term.
If you're worrying about the costs...we can have different groups to cover that for the government (Real Academia, UN, Spanish and Latin NGOs, rich Spanish-Filipino businessmen, the Spanish government, etc.)

How can the spanish will help in economical aspect of a country in a long-term perspective? Almost all countries in the world even the spanish speaking countries are trying to learn more english as it's the the international medium or language in business and commerce all over the world. And since the chinese, Korean and Japanese are all excelling in trade, it's even wiser to learn their languges instead, but then again, these latter 3 countries are assimilating themselves into the mainstream, the result? The Chinese, Japanese and the Koreans are learning english more than anything else. Heck, they hire native english speakers even if these native speakers doesn't even have a teaching degree or even a HS Grad only....

xDieselJockx

July 23rd, 2006, 03:00 PM

^^That's what I call a loss of appreciation to our hispanic culture. Hispanic we are and that is true. Besides, a lot also think that teaching Filipino in High School and Elementary is pointless. Why learn a dialect in disguise? Isn't it that Filipino IS Tagalog? Why learn a language that is so centered on a place where the capital of the country stands? Manila is not the Philippines. Far more Filipinos are not tagalogs.

Weren't an article here was posted earlier on why tagalog/filipino language was chosen as the National Language in the Philippines? Even if the greatest number of minority or race are the Visayans, the tagalog language was deemed to be most widely spoken according to their studies and surveys before the proclaimation of the Philippine republic. And since it's the delegated national language, it was put in the Philippine school curriculum, supposedly for the purpose of unifying the country with one single language which is aimed for understanding one another without killing the other languages and dialects in the Philippines.

Like what I've mentioned before, turning the filipino to identify themselves as hispanics rather than asian or anything else wouldn't guarantee better recognition from the whole world nor even would help to Philippine economy move forward, it's more of the will and attitude of the people. You can interchange the mask on your face but what is underneath it is still you, if your attitude and belief in life remained the same, you are not getting yourself nowhere. If your aim is to improve the economy, the atmosphere in politics and business should be changed and improved first, then progress can be achieved. Enough of these superficialness....

There is nothing wrong about adding Spanish in the Philippine curriculum, it's more of an appreciation of historical influences, together with the other colonizing country namely the United States.

Does a Philippine Republic really does exists before the Americans came where the medium of instructions in every household are in spanish besides the schools and other institutions? If so, why is it that all these different languages and dialects are still alive to this very moment? From my understanding, the natives were taught with spanish but the natives still used their mother tongue at home, just like how Philippines is today, everybody can speak english but when they come home, they all speak their mother tongues.

JustHorace

July 23rd, 2006, 04:24 PM

Even if Latinos clamor for English, they'll still speak Spanish when they come home. It's already in their hearts. So, never will English replace Spanish in Latin countries. Just like in the Philippines, where English is mainly spoken as a language of commerce and government. If we can put Spanish alongside English, we can penetrate into the Latin market. We're already attracting businessmen, tourists and trade deals because of our efficiency in English. What more if we are good in Spanish, too? Other than that, it is culturally significant to us. It's a celebration of our pagka-Pilipino. With Spanish as our official language, together with English and Filipino, we can, in some way, enrich the Malay, Hispanic and American influences within us...and hopefully not leave out that 350 years in our country's history.

I am not against the Filipino language. It was just a point to answer one of tsinoy's replies. But then again, Tagalog is the language of imperial Manila, the source and root of almost all political brouhahas. A lot of Filipinos in the Visayas and Mindanao had to learn Tagalog because it was the language of the capital. Back then, English was not an alternative. You can't make transactions with the national government in Manila if you can't speak Manila's language.

overtureph

July 24th, 2006, 01:11 AM

Originally Posted by Louman
Unfortunately, one of their indeginous languages was chosen over the other, just like us. Ancient wars in Korea, Japan, and China were fought so that one culture and language could dominate. In the long term, more and more people will accept Tagalog as the unifying national language instead of wanting to bring back Spanish. Leave the translation of old Spanish documents to translators, not the Pilipino people.

Try telling or explaining this to a Visayan specially a Cebuano, and lets see what kind of reaction you'll get.

bitoy

July 24th, 2006, 01:56 AM

And so you ask, did we adopt it? We did adopt it. It was the official language of the first independent republic. It was the language of commerce and government in the early to mid-20th century. The Spanish language entertained the Filipino throughout the American period and as well as in the 50s and 60s. It was becoming a common household language during the postwar years. Birth certificates and other government documents were still written in Spanish just a few years prior to its abolishment in 1973.

It was official and ADAPTED during the times that you said, but I said "did WE ADOPT" the language as our own. Regionalism was strong during that time and until now. If you are the advocate of the majority, is the majority clamoring for SPANISH language right now?

JustHorace

July 24th, 2006, 02:58 AM

So, you wouldn't call that the adoption of the Spanish language?

Like I said, I'm only sharing my opinion. I'm not pretending to know what all Filipinos would want to have. If you want to know if the majority wants Spanish back, why not ask Pulse Asia to do a survey on that? (Oh please, not IBON Foundation...LOL)

Louman

July 24th, 2006, 08:19 AM

Try telling or explaining this to a Visayan specially a Cebuano, and lets see what kind of reaction you'll get.

So you'd rather have the Philippines end up like the Balkans in which one country became so divided every ethnicity group ended up creating their their own country? Try telling that to the entire Philippines. While the Philippines won't end up like Yugoslavia, it'd be pretty stupid to have the country break up over which Filipino language should have been the National Language, but even stupider to have a colonialist's language reimposed over the sake of unity. Having to learn two languages, heck, three, is enough for most people. You'll see a united Philippines when Pacquiao wins another title and when auditors realize how much money would be wasted bringing back Spanish.

xDieselJockx

July 24th, 2006, 09:32 AM

If we can put Spanish alongside English, we can penetrate into the Latin market. We're already attracting businessmen, tourists and trade deals because of our efficiency in English. What more if we are good in Spanish, too? Other than that, it is culturally significant to us. It's a celebration of our pagka-Pilipino. With Spanish as our official language, together with English and Filipino, we can, in some way, enrich the Malay, Hispanic and American influences within us...and hopefully not leave out that 350 years in our country's history.

What latin American/ Spanish speaking countries are valuable market for commerce and tourism? As far as I know, only Spain is considered a well developed Spanish speaking country in the world. Second would be Costa Rican but this country is still far behind Spain and the rest of the world. The rest of the spanish speaking countries are all experiencing povery from Mexico, Venezuela, Columbia, Honduras, Dominican Republic and etc.. There is no market in all these countries at all, that's why you would see them all attempt to migrate to the US, Canada and for the Costa Rican, they usually migrate in Australia and NZ.

Spain is real far from the Philippines and with the political instability in the Philippines, it's hard to attract the Spaniards to come and visit the Philippines. Even in the Spanish Colonial era, very few Spaniards moved and lived in the Philippines, That's why there are very few full blooded Spanish descends in the Philippines. Unlike the US, the English people did actually stay in the US and that accounts for today's predominantly caucasian race in America hence english remained the mother tongue of this country instead of the native american language. More so, the native american indian descends are not as visible in the "typical" american culture and race.

bitoy

July 24th, 2006, 04:53 PM

So, you wouldn't call that the adoption of the Spanish language?

No, during those times, all official business and documentations were done in Spanish but most people don't speak Spanish in their day to day activities and illiteracy was very high on those earlier years,. Just like today, you fill up official documents and forms in English but you don't speak English all the time in The Philippines. Kahit na yung mga mayayaman sa Forbes or rich subdivisions na me yaya na English speaking, pag labas nila ng bahay, they will be surrounded by others who speak Tagalog or regional dialects.
Mga ninuno ko nga sa mother side, mga purong kastilaloy, pero bikol ang salita nila, pag nagmumura lang saka kastila. Pag nasa Manila sila nagtatagalog o ingles para maintindihan ng ibang tao.

overtureph

July 24th, 2006, 09:08 PM

Sorry double posting.

overtureph

July 24th, 2006, 09:11 PM

So you'd rather have the Philippines end up like the Balkans in which one country became so divided every ethnicity group ended up creating their their own country? Try telling that to the entire Philippines. While the Philippines won't end up like Yugoslavia, it'd be pretty stupid to have the country break up over which Filipino language should have been the National Language, but even stupider to have a colonialist's language reimposed over the sake of unity. Having to learn two languages, heck, three, is enough for most people. You'll see a united Philippines when Pacquiao wins another title and when auditors realize how much money would be wasted bringing back Spanish.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Balkans where more divided on ethnic lines rather than on language. Don't they have a common alphabet too, like Cyrillic? Besides did they have an alternative language like we do?

So what your proposing is disregarding other peoples sentiments and just force a language that they resent. Hmmmmm......I don't know if this might spark something like in the Balkans.

I think the pragmatic solution would be either to adopt English and even maybe Spanish which I think would foster less resentment and as in the case of English, I think most Filipinos have a working knowledge of and probably also comfortable speaking with in the first place. I don't think we would be less nationalistic with what I've mentioned. Besides, knowledge is power.

But honestly, I'm also comfortable and even favorable if we do not adopt any national language, let's just recognized all the major language group like Tagalog, Hiligaynon, Ilocano etc. I think if we do this, there would be a new flowering in our local literature and culture.

And last, disregarding our Spanish and American legacies would be like disregarding our history and struggle as a people towards nationhood. I think we are in this predicament because of our lack of appreciation and understanding towards our past.

JustHorace

July 25th, 2006, 04:33 AM

No, during those times, all official business and documentations were done in Spanish but most people don't speak Spanish in their day to day activities and illiteracy was very high on those earlier years,. Just like today, you fill up official documents and forms in English but you don't speak English all the time in The Philippines. Kahit na yung mga mayayaman sa Forbes or rich subdivisions na me yaya na English speaking, pag labas nila ng bahay, they will be surrounded by others who speak Tagalog or regional dialects.
Mga ninuno ko nga sa mother side, mga purong kastilaloy, pero bikol ang salita nila, pag nagmumura lang saka kastila. Pag nasa Manila sila nagtatagalog o ingles para maintindihan ng ibang tao.

So that means, English works in the same way. English is official. So, why not make both official? That doesn't mean that Spanish has to be your household language. It's there para madagdagan ang karunungan ng mga Pilipino. And why not any other language? It's because Spanish is part of the Filipino culture. You can't deny that. It's like enriching what's already in us. Besides, there are 400 million other people out there who speak Spanish. Who says that's no market?

bitoy

July 25th, 2006, 06:18 AM

So that means, English works in the same way. English is official. So, why not make both official? That doesn't mean that Spanish has to be your household language.

It is not just for you and I to decide, it has to be the consensus of the people of the nation. The government decided that it is no longer necessary to teach Spanish in all levels of education, just for special courses when needed.

It's there para madagdagan ang karunungan ng mga Pilipino. And why not any other language? It's because Spanish is part of the Filipino culture. You can't deny that. It's like enriching what's already in us. Besides, there are 400 million other people out there who speak Spanish. Who says that's no market?

Who's denying it? Spanish is a part of the Filipino culture so as cultural influences by other nations. That's why we can not be hispanic, we are of mixed cultures from different nations that came to our Islands.

Yes it is there, that's why those who need to learn Spanish may do so, but not to enforce it to everyone in all levels to further enrich their knowledge.
There are more important things to learn in life for the future of everyone than learning Spanish language. From the news lately, the Philippine Education is deteriorating and as not in the same level as before. That should be the priority of the government.

If The Philippines can deal with all Latin Nations to do business together, why not, but it doesn't mean, most of us have to learn Spanish. So far we deal mostly with other Asian nations, Western countries and Australia.
And we don't have to learn Chinese, Japanese or Korean to deal with them.

JustHorace

July 25th, 2006, 07:11 AM

bitoy

July 25th, 2006, 08:42 PM

Yes, the government's priority should be the improvement of the quality of the education system. Of course you can't teach something new if the current lessons aren't taught well.

Well, at least we agree on something.

Yes, we can deal with them without having to learn Spanish, but we also have to be competitive. We're getting some edge over other nations because of the quality of English we have here. Don't you think we can have a more competitive workforce if we learn how to speak Spanish? We can also have the edge over other nations when trading with Latinos if we can communicate in Spanish. We have to be resourceful.

We are already competitive in every aspect but job opportunities locally are more important, not everyone can migrate or go overseas to find a job. We don't need to rely on foreigners all the time to be successful. Foreigners would find us if all the criteria that they need to start an investment in The Philippines suffice their standards. Language barrier or communication is just a small part. Government stability, peace and order and security top the lists.

Maybe "suffice" is not the right term. Maybe "surpass" sounds better.

Btw, my friend who never took Spanish subjects in Manila have a great time with Mexican/Latinos here. She teach ESL( English as a Second Language ) at night.

Fusaichi

July 25th, 2006, 10:54 PM

Louman

July 26th, 2006, 02:40 AM

After living in L.A. for a long time, I get used to the Mexican-Spanish lingo and how the Mexicans acquire some English words and incorporate them into their daily conversation just like our Tag-lish style of talking. My Spanish is very rough during a conversation, but most Latinos that I deal with are learning English very fast.
Even when we were in Mexico, most tourist sites there have their employees learn English to accomodate every tourists from different countries.

And this is true, some Mexicans, Salvadorenian and Guatemalan don't want to be associated with Spain, some even deny that they are hispanics.

(thinking out loud in Spanish)
Y Señorita Japón debe haber ganado, ella es mucho más bonita que Señorita Puerto Rico.

My Chicano Studies prof (he's Mexican) didn't want to be called a Latino or Hispanic, but a Chicano (name mostly used by indigenous Mexicans.) He thought the label "Latino" and "Hispanic" was associated with the elite mestizos and anglo looking Mexicans who have more ties with Spain.

If Filipinos want to learn a foreign language (other than English) that may benefit them, it might as well be Chinese. They're right next door and there's a hell of a lot more of them speaking that language compared to Spanish.

habagatcentral1

July 26th, 2006, 09:08 AM

Speaking of Spanish speakers

PeopleSupport Philippines is looking forward to Filipinos who speak fluent Spanish. Padadala siguro sa Costa Rica na center nila.

overtureph

July 26th, 2006, 09:36 AM

I read a shirt in a mall somewhere in south Texas that says something like this, I am not a Hispanic, these are people from Spain, I am not a Latino, these are people from Italy. I am a Mexican.

ritche

July 27th, 2006, 06:02 AM

-edit-

JustHorace

July 27th, 2006, 04:05 PM

Well, at least we agree on something.

We are already competitive in every aspect but job opportunities locally are more important, not everyone can migrate or go overseas to find a job. We don't need to rely on foreigners all the time to be successful. Foreigners would find us if all the criteria that they need to start an investment in The Philippines suffice their standards. Language barrier or communication is just a small part. Government stability, peace and order and security top the lists.

Maybe "suffice" is not the right term. Maybe "surpass" sounds better.

Btw, my friend who never took Spanish subjects in Manila have a great time with Mexican/Latinos here. She teach ESL( English as a Second Language ) at night.

My point has something to do with cultural and educational enrichment (and perhaps market advantage as well). We can't do that in the near future since there are other things which we have to prioritize. I get your point so you don't have to reply on this one.

Good for your friend. :)

Animo

July 28th, 2006, 01:22 AM

If we are talking about economics then its a good thing to know the language( English, Japanese, Chinese, Spanish, French, etc.) of the people your doing bussiness with. I know that the Philippines is an observer in MERCOSUR now.

bitoy

July 28th, 2006, 02:36 AM

@animo

The following errors occurred when this message was submitted:

1. Animo has exceeded their stored private messages quota and can not accept further messages until they clear some space.

I can post my reply to that "Philippines" thread if you want. :D

Animo

July 28th, 2006, 05:22 AM

THE BEGINNINGS ...

On May 27, 1997, the Leagues of Local Governments formerly set up the “League of Leagues” (LoL) during the time of Bulacan Gov. Obet Pagdanganan in his capacity as former President of the League of Provinces of the Philippines. Some initial organizational meetings were held to incorporate the same with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) although this did not immediately materialize.

On September 3, 1998, the idea to revive and strengthen the umbrella organization for all the Leagues throughout the country was hatched in a meeting initiated by the Department of the Interior and Local Government (DILG). Vice-Gov. Ed Chatto suggested the acronym “ULAP” which was unanimously adopted. Two weeks later, the first set of ULAP National Executive Board (NEB) Officers of all the various Leagues formally adopted Resolution No. 98-02 officially changing the name “League of Leagues” (LoL*) to Union of Local Authorities of the Philippines or ULAP to give it a distinct personality as well as conform to international usage, it being a member of the International Union of Local Authorities (IULA).

ULAP was thus formed primarily to serve as the proper forum where the Leagues can openly discuss and reach a consensus and general agreements on several national policies and issues affecting the Leagues and LGUs.

The ULAP National Executive Board, inducted into Office by President Joseph E. Estrada last Oct. 10, 1998, is comprised of the Presidents of the twelve (12) Leagues of Local Governments and Local Officials. It now has an additional two (2) associate members. Other organized Leagues of Local officials can still join and become an associate member of ULAP.

Through the able and dynamic leadership of its National President, Laguna Gov. Joey Lina, a former two-term Senator who is also the National President of the League of Provinces, together with Dagupan City Mayor Al Fernandez and San Juan Mayor Jinggoy Estrada, Presidents of the Leagues of Cities and Municipalities, respectively, as well as with the other League officers, ULAP has already achieved milestones for the Leagues and LGUs even during its first year of existence. The voice of LGUs is now being heard, respected, and adopted by the National Government.

The Leagues now have indeed become very pro-active, dynamic, and instrumental in promoting the priority concerns of LGUs nationwide. They have proven their worth particularly in advocating their noble objectives, views and comments on existing national laws, policies, programs, and the proposed measures of Congress affecting LGUs.

Source: http://www.ulap.gov.ph/

LEGAZPI CITY, July 11 Asia Pulse - The Union of Local authorities of the Philippines (ULAP) recently urged the national government to revive the teaching of Spanish language in all public and private universities and colleges in the country, a ranking official of ULAP said Tuesday.

Albay Vice Governor James Calisin, ULAP spokesman, said ULAP members have unanimously passed a resolution asking the national government to promote and support the teaching of the Spanish language by including the subject in university and college curricula.

In his report before members of the Sangguniang Panlalawigan (SP) of Albay, Calisin said the Spanish language can be a major vehicle for international communication for trade and tourism.

The resolution declared that the Philippines has long and deep historical ties with Spain and many of the country's historical documents are written in the Spanish language.

Calisin told his colleagues in the provincial legislative board that studies showed the history and culture can be best appreciated and understood if the students learn how to read and speak the Spanish language.

He noted that the Spanish language is spoken by more than 400 million people worldwide, and it is in growing demand in Europe and North America, where it is now the second most widely spoken language.

In its resolution, the ULAP urged the Commission on Higher Education to study the implementation of the program and provide the youth a better tool for international communication.

Calisin expressed optimism that President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo would favour the proposal since the country recently forged close ties with Spain, which she visited last month.

(PNA)
http://au.biz.yahoo.com/060711/17/spdt.html

Create infrastructure to boost local tourism'
BY CHRYSEE SAMILLANO

Spanish Ambassador to the Philippines Ignacio Sagaz yesterday
encouraged the creation of more infrastructure and other facilities
that cater to tourists to boost the country's tourism industry.

Sagaz said Spain is the second world power in tourism. It has a
population of 42 million but last year it had 62 million tourists, he
said. The tourism industry is the number one industry of Spain, he added.

"Although we rank number two in the world but we are number one in
terms of income," Sagaz said. He said the World Tourism Organization
is based in Madrid because Spain is important to tourism.

Sagaz said tourism is a wonderful way of generating income and
providing jobs. The country will need a complete strategy to improve
its tourism industry, he said. "However, you cannot expect many
tourists unless you clean your country," he added.

In Spain, we created a huge complex housing subsidiaries around the
tourism industry that include restaurants, café, casinos, and others,
which fueled the snowball of tourism, Sagaz said. "Your country is as
beautiful or even more beautiful compared to its neighboring countries
like Thailand. I see no reason why it cannot attract more tourists,"
he said.

Sagaz said he also would like to invite people from Spain to invest in
infrastructure in the Philippines through soft loans. I think
infrastructure is important if you want to develop a country, he said.

Bacolod Mayor Evelio Leonardia said he has started to explore with the
Ambassador the possibility of Spain considering the dream of the city
to come up with a coastal road, he said. "We will make a feasibility
study for a north and south coastal road if possible because Sagaz
said it can be done," he said. With SM and the growth at the
Reclamation Area, a coastal road for Bacolod would be imperative, he said.

Meanwhile, Sagaz said a group of congressmen in the country would like
to revive the Spanish subject in the Philippines. He said Spain is
ready to finance 60,000 teachers to teach Spanish in secondary schools
and they will also negotiate with higher institutions, he said.

Fusaichi

July 28th, 2006, 06:03 AM

My Chicano Studies prof (he's Mexican) didn't want to be called a Latino or Hispanic, but a Chicano (name mostly used by indigenous Mexicans.) He thought the label "Latino" and "Hispanic" was associated with the elite mestizos and anglo looking Mexicans who have more ties with Spain.

If Filipinos want to learn a foreign language (other than English) that may benefit them, it might as well be Chinese. They're right next door and there's a hell of a lot more of them speaking that language compared to Spanish.

Yup, Chicano is the name that they want to ba associated with.

Animo

July 28th, 2006, 06:17 AM

Louman

July 28th, 2006, 07:21 AM

Chicano is such a 1960's term. I have not met any younger Mexicans who would want to be called Chicano. They would rather be called Mexicans, Venezuelans, Peruvians, etc. Also, I would like to comment on the term Hispanic. The US government used it as a term for race but its actually a cultural term. Their are Hispanics who are of caucasian, african, native indian, and asian descent. That is why their is a separate option for "white hispanic" and "white non-hispanic".

Chicano was a term that grew popular in the 60s during the civil rights era and still used today. Having lived in areas of Los Angeles and gone to schools with a Mexican majority or significant Mexican population, there ARE Mexicans that prefer to be called as Chicano. There's an entire major dedicated to Chicano studies itself and can be found in many universities with ethnic studies, especially in California. Even if Hispanic was once used as a cultural term, Pilipinos are still don't fall under the Hispanic category. That's like putting the Japanese and Koreans under "Chinese" just because they have a lot of Chinese influence. Why not even go as far as telling them to have Chinese as their official language? Sounds like a useless idea just because they once wrote their languages in Chinese characters.

marites4

July 28th, 2006, 07:25 AM

a lot of latin countries are more racists than the US according to latinos themselves. Just look at what they did to the aztecs the mayans .

overtureph

July 28th, 2006, 11:15 AM

A Coveted Spanish Award
By Rosalinda L. Orosa
The Philippine Star 07/23/2006

In formal ceremonies held recently at the Spanish embassy residence, the highly coveted and prestigious King Juan Carlos I Officer’s Cross, Order of Isabel la Catolica, was conferred on Rosalinda L. Orosa, cultural columnist-essayist of The Philippine STAR, and Jose Maria Taberne, director of Oficina Tecnica de Cooperacion Espanola, by H.E. Ambassador Ignacio Sagaz.

Miss Orosa received the award for her assidious promotion of the Spanish language and avid projection of Spain’s cultural presence in the Philippines.

Mr. Taberne received his award for strengthening Phil-Spanish bonds in various fields, including the economic, social, cultural and educational.

The third recipient was to have been Anastacio Alba but he was in Spain for medical reasons.

Mr. Taberné gave spontaneous, off-the-cuff remarks of appreciation and gratitude. Miss Orosa’s response follows herewith (translation supplied).

For the first time, I am almost at a loss for words. Although I have been a writer for more years than my feminine vanity allows me to admit, I cannot adequately express my joy and profound gratitude for the confernment of the officer’s Cross, Order of Isabel la Catolica, on my modest person.

Isabel, the very religious wife of Ferdinand II of Aragon, received the title of Reina Catolica from Pope Alexander VI. Isabel and Ferdinand embarked on the physical and spiritual unification of Spain, bringing it under one faith, Roman Catholicism. Isabel and Ferdinand established a highly effective co-regency under equal terms. Spain was united under the crown, power was centralized, the Church reformed. Columbus’ discovery of America under the patronage of Queen Isabel set the country on the course for the first modern world power.

Some Catholic Spaniards have attempted to declare Isabel "Blessed", aiming to have her canonized later as a saint. Their justification was that she was a protector of the Spanish poor and that miracles have been attributed to her. In 1974, Pope Paul VI opened her case for beatification, placing her on the path to sainthood.
* * *
To be rewarded for assiduously promoting the Spanish language and avidly projecting Spain’s cultural presence here is for me a magnaninous gesture of recognition. For this, I would like to pay homage to four persons who have served as my inspiration: our national hero Jose Rizal, Don Claro M. Recto and my parents.

My parents often spoke Spanish at home to familiarize us with the language. Spanish sayings and proverbs filled our table conversation. Yet my father, Dr. Sixto Y. Orosa, a doctor of medicine, was self -taught in Spanish. Through the years, he became more eloquent in Spanish than in English. He won the Premio Zobel in 1959.

My mother, Severina Luna, also a doctor of medicine, was likewise self-taught in Spanish. At the age of 93, she translated her essays and a play from English and Tagalog into Spanish. She won the Premio Zobel at the aforementioned age of 93 in 1983.

The Spanish heritage was an integral part of Rizal‘s soul and being. Why do I say this? Because, up to certain point, no one can master a language without imbibing the psychology, the manner of thinking, the spirituality of those who speak that language. The hispanic attitude, the turn of mind of the illustrious senator and dramatist Don Claro M. Recto was largely influenced by a profound knowledge of Spain, its art, its genius, its humanity.

The traces of hispanic culture that still exist here can neither be destroyed nor erased. The strongest cultural and historical bond that unites our two countries has made us brothers for always.

Before ending, I would like to render tribute to His Excellency Ambassador Igancio Sagaz. He will always occupy a special niche in my esteem as a highly cultured person who stands out for his intellect and gentility. May God bless him with love and peace which passeth all understanding.

http://philstar.com/philstar/SPECIALSECTIONS200607284607.htm

bitoy

July 28th, 2006, 03:26 PM

Chicano is such a 1960's term. I have not met any younger Mexicans who would want to be called Chicano. They would rather be called Mexicans, Venezuelans, Peruvians, etc.
Maybe, because the young ones want to be called Cholos -- :D

Also, I would like to comment on the term Hispanic. The US government used it as a term for race but its actually a cultural term. Their are Hispanics who are of caucasian, african, native indian, and asian descent. That is why their is a separate option for "white hispanic" and "white non-hispanic".

Hispanic or Hispano
As used in the United States, Hispanic is one of several terms employed to categorize all persons whose ancestry hails either from the people of Spain, any of the various peoples of Spanish-speaking Latin America, or the original settlers of the traditionally Spanish-held Southwestern United States. The term is used as a broad form of classification in the U.S. census, local and federal employment, and numerous business market researches.

So far, I haven't seen that separate option for "white hispanic" and "white non-hispanic" in any federal form applications.

Animo

July 28th, 2006, 06:00 PM

So far, I haven't seen that separate option for "white hispanic" and "white non-hispanic" in any federal form applications.

It is nomally used in population census or in medical studies.

For example:

* The Hispanic population files on the SEER Public-Use CD contain data for White Non-Hispanic, White Hispanic, Non-White Non-Hispanic, and Non-White Hispanic. In these files, a value of 8 is used to represent Non-White in the race field.

Source: http://seer.cancer.gov/popdata/popdic.html

Animo

July 31st, 2006, 07:08 AM

By Michael Tan
Inquirer
Last updated 02:05am (Mla time) 07/05/2006

Published on Page A13 of the July 5, 2006 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer

SOME time back, I was talking with some people in an urban poor community when one young man interrupted to ask if I could translate an English word I had used: colony.

I was surprised by the question and fumbled for a split second, realizing we didn’t have a local term. Eventually, I explained the word as a place conquered and occupied (“sinakop”). To illustrate, I used the Philippines as an example, i.e., that we used to be first a colony of Spain and then of the United States.

I was in for an even greater surprise. The young man, who was in his early 20s, was incredulous. “We were occupied by the Americans?” he asked. “We were their colony?”

Lobotomized

This wasn’t a case of amnesia. We do have memories of our past, but they tend to be selective, and eclectic, a bit here, a bit there but without coherence. This young man was well aware of America; as with many other Filipinos, there is no lack of connections with that distant land with a grandaunt who had migrated many years ago to work as a nurse in New York, plus a smattering of relatives in the US Navy. He idolizes American culture, in terms of rap and popular music and Hollywood films, mainly of the “Terminator” and “Son of Chuckie” genre.

Perhaps what we’re seeing is something closer to what Benedict Anderson describes, in his book “The Specter of Comparisons” as “lobotomies.” It’s almost as if part of our brain has been removed, leaving us with a selective memory of our colonial past, as well as a selective sensory perception of the present.

Many younger Filipinos may not be aware that for some 20 years, we celebrated Independence Day on July 4, which was America’s own Independence Day and which was used, in 1946, to “grant” us independence. Rightly so, President Diosdado Macapagal moved Independence Day to June 12, traced back to the First Malolos Republic in 1898. But unintentionally, that move may have become part of our national lobotomy in the sense that many Filipinos are no longer as conscious of a long and difficult US colonial occupation and our long struggle to regain our independence.

Social engineering

We forget that the Philippines was in many ways America’s First Vietnam, First Afghanistan, First Iraq. We were one huge social laboratory where the United States tested military strategies, counter-insurgency -- and social engineering. American “benevolent assimilation” sought to re-create the Filipino in their image, and succeeded.

Today, we are known in the world for our desire to emulate America in everything from our culture to our economic policies and our politics. We think American, sometimes more so than Americans.

Which need not be a bad thing in itself. To some extent, many Filipinos did imbibe some of the United States’ most cherished values, including a respect for individual worth, freedom and dignity. These were the values that led to the American Revolution in the 18th century, and built the foundation for the American version of liberal democracy. The emphasis on independence and autonomy has sometimes led to an excessive aggressiveness, but more often these values have benefited the world in the way they unleashed innovation and creativity. It’s that ability to think laterally, to be ourselves and speak our minds, and not just an ability to speak English, that has so far given us an advantage in the world job market.

Fundamentalisms

Sadly, we live today in a world where religious fundamentalisms are taking over and threatening those values. On one hand, we see the Islamist variety that looks at America as nothing short of satanic, threatening local traditions and morality. But we forget that a Christian variety of religious fundamentalism is strongest in the American homeland. It is a fundamentalism that fears freedom from among its young, from women, from any group that speaks of rights.

What we see today is not a clash of Muslim and Christian civilizations but a competition of absolutist ideologies masquerading as religion. Whether of the Islamist or Christian variety, we find common threads in their contempt for so-called secularism. They preach a retreat into a world of absolutes, of black-and-white definitions, and of fighting “evil” (meaning anyone who disagrees with them) with violent force.

Even as we Filipinos continue to grapple with ideas of freedom and democracy, many are attracted by the allure of fundamentalisms. Because of our close ties to the United States, we are seduced by the American variation of fundamentalism, with all its bigotry and intolerance and simplistic notions of “right” and “wrong.” The scenes are all too similar, whether in the United States or in the Philippines: burning novels like “The Da Vinci Code” and attempting to ban the film, opposing sex education and family planning, growing censorship in the media, all in the name of Christianity.

The other America

Understanding where America came from and where it is today helps us understand why we are in the rut we are today.

I am sometimes described as “anti-American,” simply because I write against American militarism and the Religious Right. But my criticism comes precisely because I was trained, maybe too well, in an American tradition of liberalism. I had American teachers in high school, regularly went to the Thomas Jefferson Center, and spent several of my college years studying in the United States.

To this day, thanks to the Internet, I remain in touch with an America that I love. I read The New York Times daily and tune in most days to National Public Radio for its incisive commentaries on American politics, as well as its fare of American culture that reflects its growing demographic diversity. Unfortunately, all that is another America for many Filipinos.

I can’t help but invoke the metaphors of gender. Perhaps America tries too hard to recreate the Philippines and the world in its own male image, of GI Joe and Marlboro Man and imperial American ambassadors. (It isn’t coincidental that it was only this year, after more than a hundred years of Filipino-American relations, that Washington finally assigned a woman ambassador to the Philippines.)

Perhaps America would do well to explore how she might project a gentler side, an America brimming over with a love of a good life defined beyond strip malls and consumerism and reality TV shows, an America of justice and fairness.

We Filipinos have seen America in ways more intimate than many other people. That can be both a privilege and a burden. As we continue to seek our national identity, we will never really be too far from America, and yet will need to be courageous enough to maintain some distance, charting our destiny with a determined self-confidence that should do America proud.

http://opinion.inq7.net/inquireropinion/columns/view_article.php?article_id=8169

overtureph

August 1st, 2006, 08:29 AM

INQUIRER NORTHERN LUZON
Friars’ files yield cultural treasures

By Tonette Orejas
Inquirer
Last updated 00:49am (Mla time) 07/19/2006

Published on Page A20 of the July 19, 2006 issue of the Philippine Daily Inquirer

ANCIENT Kampampangan language and culture have not actually been lost. Pioneer Augustinian missionaries secured these in perpetuity through the arte (grammar), vocabulario (dictionary) and doctrina (catechism) they wrote and published decades after the Spaniards established the country’s first province, Pampanga, in 1571.

But here’s why from the ranks of friars sprung the first Kapampangan writers. Explains Fr. Policarpio Hernandez, OSA: “The work of the missionaries to evangelize the Philippines was from the outset very laudable though difficult, as the linguistic panorama in the islands was a veritable mosaic of languages and dialects. This multiplicity of languages was a great obstacle for the missionaries in the first years of evangelization of the Filipinos.”

Because there were too many languages, a royal decree in 1594 divided the territories among the five religious orders: Augustinians, Franciscan, Jesuits, Dominicans and Augustinian Recollects.

The Augustinians, Hernandez says, worked among people who spoke Tagalog, Kapampangan, Ilocano, Hiligaynon and Cebuano.

Their writings, adds Hernandez, “were a must or necessary means for the missionary to learn the languages more easily and to transmit in a more accurate and effective way, the message of the Gospel.”

But before using the languages to relate with the people, the friar-writers had to first teach their fellow missionaries. For them, the arte and the vocabulario served as crash courses in language and culture.

They had mastered the languages to the point that they found no need to teach the Christian doctrine in Spanish, disobeying even a royal decree that required them to do so, says Fray Francis Musni, OSA.

How did the early Kapampangan react to this approach at a time when they were learned in the prehistoric writing system of the baybayin or kulitan?

“When the conquistadores first arrived in Luzon in 1571, they observed that ‘every man, woman and child could read and write.’ However, by imposing their own writing system, the colonizers in effect turned already literate natives into illiterates once again,” says Robby Tantingco, executive director of the Holy Angel University’s Juan D. Nepomuceno Center for Kapampangan Studies.

“Our ancestors had to unlearn the ancient orthography to get used to the new, imported one,” he says.

The friars’ legacy has been preserved in Fray Francisco Coronel’s “Arte y Reglas de la Lengua Pampanga” (1621), Fray Diego Bergaño’s “Vocabulario en la Lengua Pampanga” (1732) and “Arte de la Lengua Pampanga” (1729), and Fray Alvaro de Benavente’s “Arte y Diccionario Pampango” (1700).

The center got hold of a copy of Coronel’s manuscripts through the late Bro. Andrew Gonzalez, FSC.

Under the center’s auspices, Fr. Edilberto Santos, a former Benedictine monk, translated the works of Coronel, Benavente and Bergaño’s arte, deciphering the “linguistics and anthropological treasure troves” there.

“We want the present and next generations of Kapampangan to have access to these works and in the process, learn and use the language to prevent its demise. They can also reaffirm the Kapampangan identity in those works,” Tantingco says.

Adverbs of time, circa 1621

HOUR
Galingaldo mababo - just before (or near) daybreak
Abac (or cayabacan) - morning
Ogtong aldo (or ogto yang aldo or caogtoan ning aldo) - high noon
Gatpanapon - afternoon
Silim (or silimsilim) - nightfall
Bengi - night
Capitngan bengi - midnight

DAY
Ing aldo ngeni - today
Ngening bengi - tonight
Bucas - tomorrow
Cabucas - the whole night (tonight until tomorrow)
Quebucas - the whole night (last night until today)
Bucas bengi - tomorrow night
Macadua - day after tomorrow (two days from now)
Macatlu - three days from now

(Compiled by Robby Tantingco from Coronel’s “Arte y Reglas de la Lengua Pampanga” and Bergaño’s “Arte de la Lengua Pampanga” [1729], translated by Fr. Edilberto Santos.)

Copyright 2006 Inquirer. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://newsinfo.inq7.net/inquirerheadlines/regions/view_article.php?article_id=10522

Animo

August 2nd, 2006, 06:35 AM

GRAMMAR was never one of my strong points in school. Fortunately, some teachers were sympathetic and allowed me to keep on writing even if I didn't know what a gerund was. I could never explain a sentence construction, punctuate correctly or put a stop on run-on sentences and dangling modifiers because I never understood what they were. The point was being able to capture thought on paper and communicate, more or less, clearly. I found it easy to correct mistakes in a given text, but being asked to justify the corrections by citing grammatical rules gave me cold sweat.

Grammar was the stumbling block to my appreciation of Pilipino and Spanish. For example, if the fun method of Spain's cultural center in Manila, the Instituto Cervantes, were in use when we were in college, maybe more Filipinos would be fluent in Spanish and now we could be paid earning double the salaries of those who use English in call centers.

Looking back on my Spanish, Latin and German classes I can still recall enduring long hours of mindless conjugation.

Thus, writing history in Filipino has always been one of my unrealized projects. It is one thing to speak Filipino, another to write in the language. Perhaps practice makes perfect, and now I have a very useful tool in the recently published "Gabay sa Editing sa Wikang Filipino (Tuon sa Pagbaybay)" published by the University of the Philippines Sentro ng Wikang Filipino [Filipino Language Center]. Browsing through this slim volume made me realize that our language has undergone quite a lot revision and thought over the years.

Who would have known that in 1976 the Surian ng Wikang Pambansa [National Language Institute] increased the 20 letters in the Tagalog alphabet to 31 letters by adding: c, ch, f, j, ll, ñ, q, rr, v, x, and z? This expanded alphabet was then called "pinagyamang alpabeto" [enriched alphabet].

Then in 1987 the 31 letters were reduced to 28 by dropping ch, ll, and rr, and it was then called "pinasimpleng alpabeto" [simplified alphabet].

It would be very interesting to study the different sides in the debates on the development of the national language. The alphabet alone must have generated more than debate. Knowing how seriously some people take language -- or themselves -- I wouldn't be surprised if the debate later deteriorated into personal animosities, but that is material for another column.

Of course, there will be others who will disagree with this stylebook, but for the moment it is the only handy reference available. It is hoped that by sheer usage, the rules the authors have set down on written Filipino will become standard form. At least we now know when to use "din" and "rin," "daw" and "raw," "nang" and "ng," which are a source of so much confusion. How do we deal with numbers, foreign words, long words or words with repeating letters, syllables or plurals. What about reduplicated words that are common in our language? For example, Kataastaasan Kagalanggalang na Katipunan ng mga Anak ng Bayan [Highest and Most Respectable Association of the Sons of the People], which was abbreviated into K.K.K.N.A.N.B. and further into K.K.K. which now means either the Katipunan of the 1896 Revolution, the racist American group Ku Klux Klan or a popular Filipino restaurant along West Avenue in Quezon City. This slim volume of rules hides all the debate and discussion that went into it.

As early as 1935, the anthropologist E. Arsenio Manuel compiled abbreviations in written Tagalog from various sources, mostly books, periodicals and newspapers. The list is now historical because many of the abbreviations are extinct but they still make interesting reading.

Today the Republic of the Philippines is simply RP, but it used to be IF (for Islas Filipinas) or PI (Philippine Islands), which today is better known as a cuss word. There was a time when the Philippines was KP (Kapuluang Pilipinas) or SP (Sangkapuluang Pilipinas). Today the province Batangas is Bats., whereas it was formerly Bat., which made me wonder if this was confused with Bataan. Bdo. is not Banco de Oro, it used to be the abbreviation for Binondo, which Manuel suggests should be Bdk. because the place name is short for Binundok.

In English, we blur the difference between a married woman (Mrs.) and a single one (Miss) by using Ms. In Tagalog we cannot switch a Ginang (Gng. or Gg.) into a Binibini (Bb. or Bbg.). The male form Ginoo is normally shortened into a simple G. or sometimes Gg. or rarely GG, which today can mean "galunggong" or "gago."

Time is simple in English, which follows two 12-hour cycles so that morning is a.m. and the afternoon and evening are p.m. In Tagalog we have four, more exact divisions of time: "ng umaga" or n.u. [in the morning], "ng tanghali" or n.t. [noon], "ng hapon" or n.h. [in the afternoon], "ng gabi" or n.g. [in the evening].

The Latin et cetera or etc. is rendered as ibp. ["at iba pa"] but today we use atbp.

Since the media play a great role in the development and usage of Filipino, our language both spoken and written will continue to be enriched by change. As they say, dictionaries, encyclopedias and stylebooks are actually obsolete as soon as they come off the press.

"Gabay sa Editing sa Wikang Filipino" does not have the usage and abbreviations currently in use in texts on our cell phones. That is worth another book all by itself. But then the journey of a thousand miles begins with the proverbial first step and the Sentro ng Wikang Filipino should be congratulated for a timely work well done.

Comments are welcome at aocampo@ateneo.edu
http://www.inq7.net/globalnation/col_lob/2004/mar12.htm

Animo

August 2nd, 2006, 07:23 AM

Making English the medium of instruction of schools in
the country may not be the solution to the impending
shortage of workers for business process outsourcing
companies or answer the need to improve the competence
of the human resource pool.

Using the English language to teach other academic
subjects, especially mathematics and science, in the
primary level, has contributed to the deterioration of
the quality of the country's college graduates, said
Josef Yap, president of the Philippine Institute for
Development Studies (PIDS).

"Aside from losing our English proficiency, we are
also losing our cognitive skills, especially in math
and science, because of the use of the English
language in explaining the basic concepts of these
subjects to our students in the primary levels," he
said.

Other subjects

To address the deteriorating quality of the country's
graduates, PIDS is advising schools to teach other
subjects using their local languages while providing
"proper" education on the English language.

"When you use English in explaining basic concepts in
math and science to Cebuanos, the learning process is
delayed and sometimes do not take place because the
children will have to (mentally) translate what the
teacher said in Cebuano before they are able to
comprehend," Yap said.

If basic concepts in math and science are taught in
the native language, Yap said learning would be easier
and quicker. He added that students can learn English
in their English class.

Proficiency

English can be used as medium of instruction in higher
academic levels and students can develop proficiency
in the language, he said in a press conference at the
Casino Español de Cebu last Wednesday.

The mushrooming of call centers and other business
process outsourcing companies in the country has
raised the issue on the lack of English skills of the
country's labor force. Contact or call centers have
lamented the shortage of qualified contact center
representatives.

The English proficiency of Filipinos had been one of
the factors that attracted foreign investors to do
business in the country.

But Yap said speaking English well is only one of the
qualifications of a contact center agent. Quick
understanding of conversations in English is another,
he added.

"While we have graduates that can speak English
fluently, some of them have the difficulty to
immediately understand what they hear because the
translation process is slow," he said.

The PIDS, along with representatives of Manila-based
universities, conducted a regional discussion forum on
the potential of the services industry to become the
country's growth driver for economic competitiveness.

PIDS is a non-stock, non-profit government research
institution engaged in long-term policy-oriented
research. It aims to expand policy-oriented research
on social and economic development to assist the
government in planning and policymaking. (JBN)

DonQui

August 2nd, 2006, 07:28 AM

Like I have said before, using a colonial language as the language of instruction is insulting to the Filipino nation.

1) Have local languages be official languages of instruction.

2) Make Tagalog the national language and the "duty and right of every Filipino to use," i.e. everyone has to learn Tagalog for territorial integrity.

3) From there, learn foreign languages, with Spanish and English being the most typical options due to history.

Boom, someone in Manila should hire me. :D

evangelistik

August 2nd, 2006, 07:39 AM

We have to look at your proposition of making Spanish the official language from an economic standpoint...

The business world speaks in English... like the article another SSCer poster said: to be competetive we would have to improve our primary levels of education; there's no point in reinstating Spanish as an official language.

I see nothing to be gained by speaking Spanish.

DonQui

August 2nd, 2006, 07:43 AM

We have to look at your proposition of making Spanish the official language from an economic standpoint...

The business world speaks in English... like the article you posted said, to be competetive we would have to improve our primary levels of education; there's no point in reinstating Spanish as an official language.

I see nothing to be gained by speaking Spanish.
Nothing gained? Well, with such an attitude, perhaps YOU would not gain anything, but others would. Learning another language never hurts you.

I say, make sure you can all speak your local languages and Tagalog. From there, worry about your colonial languages, of which English is as much one as Spanish.

No colonial language, be it English or Spanish, should be an official Filipino language for one simple reason: there is nothing Filipino about them. ;)

evangelistik

August 2nd, 2006, 07:50 AM

DonQui

August 2nd, 2006, 07:52 AM

I don't understand. What are you arguing about?

I am responding to bustero's first post. I am not against teaching Tagalog and the local dialects. A child can pick those up fairly quickly.

What I was saying is that Spanish would never become an official language because it would have no use. English, however, does have its advantages (although we could improve a lot in the way we teach it in the primary and secondary school levels).

English is an official language now, alongside tagalog. Why would we need to change that?

Read the post.
I am arguing that your "no use" assertion is not correct. And English should not be an official language for the same reason that Spanish is not: it represents a period of colonial subjugation that inexplicably Filipinos do not accept in relation to Spain but are more than happy to accept in relation to the US.

evangelistik

August 2nd, 2006, 08:04 AM

DonQui

August 2nd, 2006, 08:04 AM

Let me provide you examples:

1) French colonization:
Vietnam: sole official language: VIETNAMESE
Laos: sole official language: LAO
Cambodia: sole official language: KHMER

2) Dutch colonization:
Indonesia: sole official language: INDONESIAN

3) English colonization:
Malaysia: sole official language: MALAYSIAN
Banglandesh: sole official language: BANGLADESHI

All of these countries have pride in their own heritages to make their languages the one most used, and not that of the colonizer. The main exception to this rule is India, but I chalk that up to being a country of 1.000.000.000 people, about 12 times the size of the Philippines.

If small-ish countries like Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, and big ones like Indonesia don't have the language of the colonizer official, then why does the Philippines? And then worse, the all-too-common selective historical amnesia that keeps only one of the two colonial languages official.:sly:

DonQui

August 2nd, 2006, 08:07 AM

Not correct? The biggest markets take place in the english speaking world. Let me give you an example: India's outsourced call centers, both IT and non-IT.

To stay competetive China is now in heavy pursuit of teaching its young students better english.

Would you like to see a decline in OFW remittances because the nation suddenly decided to take a language out due to idealistic reasons?

Did India, Hong Kong, and Singapore suddenly reject English and only stick with their native languages after they gained independence? No.

Naturally, instead of being idealistic they made the rational decision. You use what you have to stay ahead.
Hong Kong, Singapore, and India are exceptions. The Philippines is neither a micro city state or a 1.000.000.000 person democracy. ;)

No one ever said stop teaching kids English. It is just absurd that a Vietnamese student can have the natural benefit of learning math in his own tongue, but the Philippines still kowtows to their former American masters and are causing their own children to have to learn in a foreign language, like immigrants in their own lands.

If Vietnam can teach its kids in Vietnamese, why can't the Filipinos do the same in their various tongues?

evangelistik

August 2nd, 2006, 08:16 AM

Colonization ended more than a hundred years ago. Who gives a fuck? You move on. Do you want forty acres and a mule with that?

It's part of our history. Stop separating the Native culture from the Spanish and American ones. Like it or not, who you are and the Philippine culture that exists NOW is an amalgamation of all three. You cannot separate one from the other and still have a "Filipino culture". Don't get too caught up with the issue of identity.

All of the countries you mentioned are practically developing countries (aside from maybe Malaysia). So I don't really see where your argument lies with that one. Vietnam is growing at a fast clip, but so is its use of English.

DonQui

August 2nd, 2006, 08:21 AM

Colonization happened more than a hundred years ago. Who gives a fuck? You move on. Do you want forty acres and a mule with that?

It's part of our history. Stop separating the Native culture from the Spanish and American ones. Like it or not, who you are and the Philippine culture that exists NOW is an amalgamation of all three. You cannot separate one from the other and still have a "Filipino culture". Don't get too caught up with the issue of identity.

All of the countries you mentioned are practically developing countries (aside from maybe Malaysia). So I don't really see where your argument lies with that one. Vietnam is growing at a fast clip, but so is its use of English.
And the Philippines is not a developing country? So how is the comparison not valid? They are all equally developing countries with some differences in levels of wealth and MOST use the INDIGENOUS language as the medium of instruction and don't seem to suffer because of it.

Yes, we all know that all contributed. But, did the French not leave any legacy to Vietnam? Did the English not leave any legacy to Malaysia? Did the Dutch not leave any legacy to Indonesia. In varying forms of course they did, with the British legacy perhaps in this list of three being the strongest in Malaysia and the French legacy being weakest in Vietnam as a result of their revolution.

But does that mean that Vietnam, Malaysia, and Indonesia obey colonial norms and continue the practice of education in foreign languages begun by the colonizer? Of course not. So why is the Philippines not as bold? Are Tagalog/Cebuano/Visayan/any other Filipino languages inherently unfit to be used to teach technical concepts to children?

Leave learning English, Spanish, or Kiswahili where it belongs, in the foreign language class, not when you are teaching math or biology. That is my only point. There is nothing cultural about differential calculus and bacteria.

Josepepe

August 2nd, 2006, 08:22 AM

Hong Kong, Singapore, and India are exceptions. The Philippines is neither a micro city state or a 1.000.000.000 person democracy. ;)

No one ever said stop teaching kids English. It is just absurd that a Vietnamese student can have the natural benefit of learning math in his own tongue, but the Philippines still kowtows to their former American masters and are causing their own children to have to learn in a foreign language, like immigrants in their own lands.

If Vietnam can teach its kids in Vietnamese, why can't the Filipinos do the same in their various tongues?

because we are neither hong kongites, singaporeans, indians nor vietnamese. .... think about it dude....

bankaw itomon

evangelistik

August 2nd, 2006, 08:28 AM

DonQui

August 2nd, 2006, 08:29 AM

Who said anything about teaching the hard sciences and mathematica in English? Teach it in whatever language you want.

What i'm saying, and what i've been saying all along is that the world is flattening. Knowing English is an advantage that should not be taken out. I've already provided examples of this, and they do not need to be mentioned again.

It's not like i'm saying "fuck tagalog, we should only speak English." That's nowhere near the point that i'm making. We have two official languages, dude. Two. Fuck it, i'll take both.

Again, I hammer my point in this post: think rationally, think economically. Knowing english is an advantage. You don't need to amputate a healthy arm.
French Indochina knows English without making it official. ;) You don't need to graft on a healthy arm when you already have one to begin with (if that makes any sense. :D)

evangelistik

August 2nd, 2006, 08:34 AM

lol. I like that analogy.

I don't think we would retain our competetive advantage if we suddenly took out mandatory English. I mean, how many nurses and other "skilled labor" jobs does French Indochina send overseas?

If it ain't broken, don't fix it. It's helped us more than hurt us thus far.

Josepepe

August 2nd, 2006, 08:39 AM

And the Philippines is not a developing country? So how is the comparison not valid? They are all equally developing countries with some differences in levels of wealth and MOST use the INDIGENOUS language as the medium of instruction and don't seem to suffer because of it.

Yes, we all know that all contributed. But, did the French not leave any legacy to Vietnam? Did the English not leave any legacy to Malaysia? Did the Dutch not leave any legacy to Indonesia. In varying forms of course they did, with the British legacy perhaps in this list of three being the strongest in Malaysia and the French legacy being weakest in Vietnam as a result of their revolution.

But does that mean that Vietnam, Malaysia, and Indonesia obey colonial norms and continue the practice of education in foreign languages begun by the colonizer? Of course not. So why is the Philippines not as bold? Are Tagalog/Cebuano/Visayan/any other Filipino languages inherently unfit to be used to teach technical concepts to children?

Leave learning English, Spanish, or Kiswahili where it belongs, in the foreign language class, not when you are teaching math or biology. That is my only point. There is nothing cultural about differential calculus and bacteria.

again your analogy is flawed because you treat the diverse filipino languages by using its diversity to reject spanish as a filipino language. i agree that tagalog, cebuano or whatever should be taught officially according to their respective region but it doesnt stop there. the filipino is not just being tagalog, cebuano or whatever. a filipino exists because of its hispanic character. one cannot have a country without it. spanish is no longer a "colonial" language. so stop dreaming and playing with timelines by pretending that the spanish invention called the filipino state and afffirmed by the revolutionaries who have sought independence from spain rejected the spanish language. of all things it was the american incursion which disrupted the evoution of the filipino state into becoming a fully hispanic "asian" country. what we have are tagalized characters who are self hating ignoramusES and cannot think beyond americanized culture. even their self professed "nationalism" smacks of the same. sorry for being brutal but the same arguments have been proffered time and time again. yes, lets have all our filipino languages survive and reject tagalismo and revive spanish as the common language of all the nations as it has been meant to be. if not lets forget about having one country.

bankaw itomon

Josepepe

August 2nd, 2006, 08:45 AM

Who said anything about teaching the hard sciences and mathematica in English? Teach it in whatever language you want.

What i'm saying, and what i've been saying all along is that the world is flattening. Knowing English is an advantage that should not be taken out. I've already provided examples of this, and they do not need to be mentioned again.

It's not like i'm saying "fuck tagalog, we should only speak English." That's nowhere near the point that i'm making. We have two official languages, dude. Two. Fuck it, i'll take both.

Again, I hammer my point in this post: think rationally, think economically. Knowing english is an advantage. You don't need to amputate a healthy arm.

so spanish is also an advantage. so is nippongo. so is english. i agree with don qui about defending and using our indigenous languages. but it doesnt stop there because spanisn is the language of filipino history. it is the language of the filipino state. not all countries speak english. it is not the magic pill nor a potion to social progress. this is colonial mentality because of the inability to think outside the parameters of da ingles. this is common among pilipinos. what a pity.

bankaw itomon

evangelistik

August 2nd, 2006, 08:48 AM

Josepepe

August 2nd, 2006, 08:49 AM

DonQui

August 2nd, 2006, 09:06 AM

Josepepe

August 2nd, 2006, 09:07 AM

Spanish would not be as advantageous as English.

I've already made my point regarding this. Scroll up.

that's a load of baloney. you are perpetuating a myth. english did not contribute an iota of social progress to the country in my opinion. not even the much ballyhooed ofws have been helped by da ingles. the other thing is that not all filipinos can leave the country. why not along with its diverse languages filipinos revive mandatory spanish among all filipinos. it is a noble cause because it defends the filipino state from the incursion of tagalista ideology, chinese stealth colonization and yanki colonial mentality. why? because we are not all tagalogs. we do not need to speak tagalog masquerading as pilipino or filipino to become filipino. we are filipinos and its high time people realized what it means. if not lets go back to lala land and recreate the the autonomous barangays during the prehispanic past. or we can pretend and have a tagalog republic which i reject and just say its pilipino. er filipino. but this too is another lie. filipino heroes have never rejected the spanish language. this was left to the next generation who sold their soul for the price of porridge.

bankaw itomon

Josepepe

August 2nd, 2006, 09:09 AM

Josepepe

August 2nd, 2006, 09:21 AM

Spanish would not be as advantageous as English.

I've already made my point regarding this. Scroll up.

And I didn't say it was a "magic pill to social progress". You can't just expect to become a wealthy state because of a language that you speak. It is an irrevocable fact, however, that the English language has helped a lot in terms of FDI (especially back then), OFWs, etc.,.

Don't lecture me about "filipino mentality". I don't subscribe to any of that bullshit. I only go by what I analyze.

that is exactly what you mean. reread your own post. start with "spanish would not be as advantageous as English". how can anyone talk of economic advantage which is what you mean when country, state or being a fiilipino is to tbe entirely ignorant of the language its written on? some have even suggested that being filipino is just fiction. this is tragic and something i opposed. too many filipinos in the diaspora cannot even articulate who they are. how then can they face the stresses of being abroad when there is no united front to address common issues for instance. they would rather become some other nationality than be filipino and that's ignorance. what is this notion of 'filipino' based on a concocted subdialect from tagalog called pilipino mean anyway? non tagalista filipinos have never understood its relation to ones true ethnicity. but spanish is a valid connection to a nation state. frankly like pilipino the bull is that da ingles hAS damaged the filipino identity. english is a foreign language. spanish is no longer a foreign language which many of you refuSED to see. there is such a thing called filipino spanish until the gringos made filipinos hate their own heritage. but then again la soli is just another document in the museum like the constitution of the first filipino republic. analysis of simplistic myths like english ( or da chinese as stealthily introduced by the neo colonizers in our midst) is not analysis but propaganda.

bankaw itomon

Josepepe

August 2nd, 2006, 10:18 AM

Josepepe, I think you have me pinned for something I am not. :laugh:

I am an American of Puerto Rican descent. I think this provides me an especially nuanced opinion in this debate for several reasons. First, Puerto Rico and the Philippines were "acquired" by the United States at the same time. Second, the United States attempted the same type of linguistic genocide in both places, to the point they tried to shove down the Anglocized name of the island, Porto Rico, down everyone's throats.

Yet the outcomes are vastly different. The Philippines is a proud independent nation that has had Spanish wiped off the face of Philippine islands, and Puerto Rico, paradoxically while still remaining an American territory, is a fully Spanish-dominated society where English is taught as a foreign language and there is little, if any, attempts by Washington to go back to its ways and supplant Spanish.

In short, Puerto Rico stuck with Spanish, the Philippines wiped it away as if it were some 400 year old bug stain on the wind shield. Why? Simply put, Spanish was never as strong in the Philippines as it was in Puerto Rico. The elite that made up Philippine society right before the infamous Spanish-American War was obviously in contact with the Spanish language and may have desired its use, but it was never a Puerto Rico, an Argentina, or a Venezuela. Why? Because not that many Spaniards. North of Paraguay and Bolivia, a mestizo set of nations grew up, a hybrid of Europe and the indigenous, using the common Spanish tongue to solidify disparate indigenous societies.

So, to dream of a Philippines that is similar to Latin America, where Spanish reigns supreme and the indigenous languages official where necessary simply is not going to work IMO.

I think if you want to "honor" the legacy left by the European power that created the Filipino nation, I would do exactly as it does in relation to language set up. Namely, have Tagalog function as the sole official language of the Philippines, this country's version of "Castilian Spanish," the language that is the official tongue of Manila and of all Filipino citizens. However, have the local languages function as the Philippines' version of Catalan, Basque, and Galician, where they are co-official in their respective regions. I see no reason why having Tagalog as the universal Filipino language would break the Philippines apart.

Plus, it has the added benefit of being as artificial an imposition as Spanish or English as the national tongue.

In short, keep everything the way it is, but get rid of English as being official. Learn it as a foreign language, not as an official Filipino language, because there is NOTHING Filipino about English.

1. filipinos have never wiped spanish off. we have the gringos and their local stoogies doing it for us. our heroes have other plans and it contradicts the first three paragraphs of what you wrote. filipino spanish is the language of our independence and of our mestizaje culture. this is what makes me a filipino. a bisaya who is not tagalog a filipino.

2. second, tagalog is the language of the tagalogs. this is not my nations language and this is nothing more than internal colonization. spanish is our national language along with my own ethnic language. this is what make us a country. betraying our national heroes by imposing tagalog and destroying my own people's language is not the country that has been envisioned. this is a phenomenon of the last 100 hundred years.

3. third, your bogus premise of european invention of the filipino state to be a mortal sin as you would like me to believe doesnt hold water. three separate coutries colonized by some other foreigner amounts to the same thing. european invention of a state or not this my homelands reality. the Philippines would not have existed without it. simple as that.

4, you are gravely mistaken if you think spanish did not take root in the Philippines. the same myth have been spread before and when research comes it falls short to the facts. as an example other latin countries before independence were not spanish speakers as their first language either. get used to the idea that we are not tribal identities because we as a people have been evolving into one nation because of that hispanic identity. regardless of the renaming by the reactionary tagalistas of its origin. which is another lie. its time for filipinos to wake up. but i must admit this does not include those who are old dogs unwilling to unlearn bad habits. they can invent a time machine and good riddance.

bankaw itomon

overtureph

August 2nd, 2006, 10:48 AM

driftwood

August 2nd, 2006, 03:33 PM

From wikipedia... Spanish in the Philippines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_in_the_Philippines)

Quite an interesting read, though I'm not in a position to vouch for its veracity.

JustHorace

August 2nd, 2006, 03:45 PM

I've been reading that article for so many times. Pero ang punchline niya..."The consensus however is that Spanish is doomed etc." or something like that. How sad.

evangelistik

August 2nd, 2006, 06:15 PM

that is exactly what you mean. reread your own post. start with "spanish would not be as advantageous as English". how can anyone talk of economic advantage which is what you mean when country, state or being a fiilipino is to tbe entirely ignorant of the language its written on? some have even suggested that being filipino is just fiction. this is tragic and something i opposed. too many filipinos in the diaspora cannot even articulate who they are. how then can they face the stresses of being abroad when there is no united front to address common issues for instance. they would rather become some other nationality than be filipino and that's ignorance. what is this notion of 'filipino' based on a concocted subdialect from tagalog called pilipino mean anyway? non tagalista filipinos have never understood its relation to ones true ethnicity. but spanish is a valid connection to a nation state. frankly like pilipino the bull is that da ingles hAS damaged the filipino identity. english is a foreign language. spanish is no longer a foreign language which many of you refuSED to see. there is such a thing called filipino spanish until the gringos made filipinos hate their own heritage. but then again la soli is just another document in the museum like the constitution of the first filipino republic. analysis of simplistic myths like english ( or da chinese as stealthily introduced by the neo colonizers in our midst) is not analysis but propaganda.

bankaw itomon

I'm going around in circles here. Nobody seems to be listening. My thesis states that it is advantageous for the filipinos to speak English; that "English is the international language of business." I've already provided examples. If you're going to disagree, refute it with counter-points. Don't just call it some bullshit propaganda and write it off as a myth. Globalization is happening at a torrid pace, and it's not going away. English will only become more and more important.

How will Filipinos cope with "the stresses of being abroad"? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Do you think that as people emigrate from one country to the other that they won't change? Change is practically a must to thrive in a certain society. It doesn't have to be full-scale assimilationism, but at some point, by the second or third generation the children of those first immigrants will start to act more like other people in their new country in order to be successful. It's not a conscious thing, kids pick up the social norms and memes without even having to think about it; without even being aware of it. I just don't see where you're coming from on the matter.

Although I've lived in a foreign country for more than half of my life I can still speak and understand kapampangan and tagalog. The idea of identifying myself as a filipino (or american) is just bogus to me. I'm filipino, yes. I'm also an american. But when you break it down further, i'm most importantly a human being. I'm well aware of the country's history and culture. It's just that I don't get caught up in it. I got love for the place, but i'm not going to let it define who I am. I'm bigger than all of that. I'm going global, baby.

I think you're putting the Filipino people down by stating that they're all fucked up just because they have a "false sense of identity". What is, is. Move on, adapt, and thrive. Stop crying. Identifying with a culture is a lot more organic than you think it is, you can't just pick and choose what you want to be.

bitoy

August 2nd, 2006, 08:41 PM

^^ This is really going in a circle. They can see the truth in The Philippines that Spanish is the language of the past but still in denial. Spanish, Chinese, English and other foreign words have been assimilated in our day to day spoken language and that's what the Filipinos are comfortable with. In most business establishments in The Philippines, English and Filipino are widely use in dealing with their transactions.
If some people still insist to revive Spanish for themselves, by all means, they can do so. But telling others that not knowing or not adhering to Spanish language is un-Filipino and it is the Language of our independence, Kalokohan yan.
Independence from Spain? :)

driftwood

August 2nd, 2006, 08:43 PM

Well put, ira. :okay:

xDieselJockx

August 2nd, 2006, 09:04 PM

Here is a good reason why Spanish can't really be the uniting factor of the filipinos nor cannot be used to identify as truely filipino. It was never really widely spoken by most during the spanish era only 10 % of the population, because the native filipinos, the so called indios were prohibited to learn Spanish as much as possible. It was reserved to the elite and well educated. Now folks, why would you claim something that you were deprived of in the past by the spaniards themselves?

Practicality wise, the English is more effective for the filipinos as it's already there, it just needed some polishing. Why waste the tax payer's money ofor reimposing Spanish to the public just to claim something that is not truely filipino? it's like being a fruit, it is not ripe and when it's not ripe, it's not as sweet as the fruit nature has given to us.

From Quietlife's posts:
___________________________________________________________________

Spanish was first introduced to the Philippines in 1565, when the conquistador, Miguel López de Legazpi founded the first Spanish settlement on the island of Cebu. The Philippines was a Spanish territory for 333 years (1565-1898).

Although the language was never compulsory while under Spanish colonial rule, and its learning was in fact discouraged or explicitly prohibited from the natives by the Spanish colonial authorities, Spanish was at one time spoken by around 10% of the population. It was the first and only language of the Spanish and Spanish-mestizo minority, and the second but most important language of the educated native Ilustrados. The stance of the Roman Catholic Church and its missionaries was also to preach to the natives in local languages, and not in Spanish. The priests and friars preached in local languages and employed indigenous peoples as translators, creating a bilingual class known as ladinos. The natives, generally were not taught Spanish, but the bilingual individuals, notably poet-translator Gaspar Aquino de Belén, produced devotional poetry written in the Roman script in the Tagalog language. Pasyon is a narrative of the passion, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ begun by Gaspar Aquino de Belén, which has circulated in many versions. Later, the Spanish ballads of chivalry, the corrido, provided a model for secular literature. Verse narratives, or komedya, were performed in the regional languages for the illiterate majority.

__________________________________________________________

How do you feel about this josepepe? BTW, welcome back, you are missed never the less and I mean that whole heartedly. I do learn things from you so please don't take it too personal if I comment also.

Animo

August 3rd, 2006, 12:54 AM

Anyway this post will be an "added" information to all. :)

From the Book "Cine: Spanish Influences on Early Cinema in the Philippines" by Nick de Ocampo - a director and historian of Filipino cinema

On Language.. p.217

Until the 1930's, Spanish language cast its strong powers on the population. A record shows that in terms of readership, there were more readers of Spanish newspapers in the country. As of Dec. 31, 1929, there were 66,000 thousand readers of Spanish newspapers and publications but only 36,000 readers of English newspapers and 62,000 Tagalog readers. The use of the English language suffered during the first years of American colonization. Surprisingly, there was a resurgence of the Spanish language in ways that alarmed the ruling americans. When introduced to the American language, local inhabitants reacted by trying earnestly to speak in Spanish.

p.218

This was clearly the case in a report made by the Department of Education for 1908: " Spanish continues to be the most prominent and important language spoken in political, journalistic and commercial circles. English has active rivals as the language of intercourse and instruction. I think it's a fact that many more people in the islands have a knowledge of Spanish now than they did when the American Occupation occured. Through the great increase in number of circulation of newspapers and periodicals, there is now much more reading in Spanish than formerly."6

The phenomenal resurgence of the Spanish language came to a point, when, in 1936, an American observed in an article, "Everywhere, Spanish is trhe speech of business and social intercourse." In order to receive prompt attention, the annoyed American traveler writes, "Spanish is almost indispensable." He is surprised to find that his fellow Americans even discouraged the use of English as Spanish was used by the natives habitually and everywhere. Speaking in english one would not be treated with as much respect as one speaking in Spanish. He opines,"Filipinos seem to lose their manners in acquiring English, becoming rude, familiar and insolent."

In offices, Spanish was customarily used. English was spoken when the head of office happened to be an American. In schools, students were required to speak english, but outside offices and schools, Spanish so dominated the Filipinos, that it was an exception to hear English."8

p.221

Despite American efforts to curtail the use of Spanish language, it took years before Spanish declined. At one point, there was a series of laws issued by the American-controlled government to put a stop in the use of Spanish language and provide a speedy substitution of English.9 First came Act.190, which provided that English be the official language of all courts and their records after January 1, 1906. In desperation, Exec. Order No.44 issued on August 8, 1912, which qualified the previous declarations to mean that the language requirement did not amount to more than the "expression of a preference in English."

There was no doubt that Spanish was a living language. In order to act decisivelyin ending the use of Spanish as a language in courts, the deadline of January 1, 1920 was set for the use of Spanish as an "official langauge" together with English. After that, English would be the only official language in legal transactions in the land.

In order to make the use of English widespread, American administrators sought the help of schools to enact laws. But even this became a formidable task. It was an enormous task to change the speech of seven million people.10 It was reported that at the dawn of the American rulw, 2,167 American school teachers were employed in public schools.

Notes:

6. Report of the Director of Education for 1908, as cited in the "Henry Jones, Ford Report" and printed in Phil. Historical Review(1913-1929)

8. Ibid.
9. Ibid.
10. Ibid.

Animo

August 3rd, 2006, 01:03 AM

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e132/restardo/Retrato/secreto.jpg

"Cinema may have been the last major cultural legacy the Philippines derived from its relations with its former colonizer, Spain. Before the European power lost control of its colony in 1898, and before the United States of America became the Philippines Islands new ruler, cinema had been introduced to the colony's mainly Hispanic society.

Along with such other material forms of culture as the plow, calendar, clock, map, painter's brush, maize and tobacco, printing presses and even the Roman Alphabet, the film apparatus was among the cultural legacies bequeathed by Spain to its colonial subjects. Film help usher the Filipinos into the modernizing World of the 2oth Century."

- Introduction: Cine, Spanish influences on the Early Cinema in the Philippines, Metro-Manila, 2003

---

El cine nacional de Filipinas, como la literatura filipina, empezó en español. El comienzo del cine en estas islas también tuvo su fase inicial en las películas mudas cuyo diálogo salía impreso y proyectado en las mismas. Y ese diálogo se daba en español. Cuando empezó la etapa del talkies o del sonido, las películas filipinas empezaron a hablar en tagalo y en español, jamás en inglés, ----aunque fueran usenses los inventores o introductores del nuevo medio que se conocía como el cínema. Secreto de Confesión se titula el primer filme filipino que se anuncia como "la primera película hablada y cantada en español producida en Filipinas". Siguieron después, y de forma regular, muchas otras como Las dulces mestizas.

Secreto de Confesión, por ejemplo, se exhibió con éxito en Estados Unidos, en Cuba, en Puerto Rico, en Centro y Sud América, en Macau y Hong Kong y, naturalmente, en España y Portugal. Trajo a Filipinas, a manera de los antiguos galeones, mucha plata y oro en dólares usenses. Su versión tagala, producida más tarde, sólo se exhibió, después de la guerra usense-japonesa de 1945, en las principales ciudades del archipiélago con menos éxito taquillero. Muchas otras películas filipinas, como Las Dulces Mestizas y El Milagro del Nazareno de Quiapo, tuvieron mayores éxitos taquilleros que Secreto de confesión porque se estaba empezando a formar un mercado internacional, un mercado de habla-española, para la industria del cine filipino. El cine filipino venía siendo una industria con mucha promesa hasta que los neocolonizadores usenses lograron suprimir el uso oficial del idioma español.

bitoy

August 3rd, 2006, 02:32 AM

^^ It's called "TRANSITION" :D

THE MANILA TIMES:
106 years in a nation’s rich history (http://www.manilatimes.net/others/history.html)

Native papers
Before The Times was born, several native papers were already in existence written in Spanish, and most of them were nationalistic and revolutionary.

My Grandfather told us about the old times that early newspapers during the American occupation were only 2 folds or 4 pages and the Spanish editions newspapers slowly faded away since no one were reading them. :)

Askal82

August 3rd, 2006, 03:26 AM

xDieselJockx

August 3rd, 2006, 04:46 AM

@Donqui, in some ways, I have to agree with you. The majority of people from Scandinavian countries can speak English as if its their native tongue yet its not their official language. Removing English as official language may not be a bad idea at after all. The status of English as co-official language with Tagalog is superficial because a substantial number of average Filipinos have poor grasp in that language anyway, so why pretend? I don't buy in globalization bandwagon either. The multinational companies are the ones really taking advantage of this trend at the expense of the developing country's resources- including the human labor. Just think who made those nice Nike sneakers the moment you buy them in the nearest department stores. Significant improvements in educational system is the real, ultimate answer in the long run.

I am not just talking about the current educational system that we know as of now, but the kind of education that propels the youth to 'build the nation'.

You've got a good point there Askal. But, in todays world 90% of the filipino population is lost in spanish. It will take years and alot of tax payers money to put back the Spanish in mainstream filipino system and more so the real " filipino identity". Will it really help the filipino people solve this somewhat "crisis" when the filipino people are pretty much westernized if not, more americanized? Somehow the newer generation would probably be more confused, because the spanish is being imposed upon them when the younger generation is so used to what they have right now.

I see Josepepe's point now somehow after doing some more reading about the Philippine history, so, yes, the spanish language have the edge, the problem now is the full acceptance without resistance. Josepepe might brand them as ignorant but he can't wrong these people who resist because they are just being practical, probably because it is being triggered by the current situation in the Philippines and the sagging economy, it is why there are a number of people here whom are all hoping for retaining and improving the english language rather than giving the spanish language another chance.

To me, it is really hard to bring the past back, the history made it's mark, the Philippine history has been changed and probably is continously changing, we should thrive on what we have right now and move on, it's a no win situation there as both resolution can both be a bitter pill to swallow. And even you swallow either of that bitter pill it will not guarantee 100% of good health, in this case that health we were refering to is the plague that's affecting the filipino identity and whatever unifying language there is instored for all the filipino people.

Askal82

August 3rd, 2006, 05:48 AM

xDieselJockx

August 3rd, 2006, 03:42 PM

@ dieseljox, Philippine culture is really western in orientation with its own version, hence that is where Filipino culture splits itself from other Western countries . To deny being western by searching for elusive origins for the purpose of cultural identification, is to deny what makes up being Filipino. There is no need to search for an authentic Filipino identity.

Like what I pointed out earlier that designating a 'special foreign language' as official language is really unnecesarry in carrying out its economic, cultural or historical goals. It is the quality of education that molds its citizens to be progressive which can be done in any medium of instruction.

Exactly !!! That and the attitude of the people needs to change. No matter what language or identity any filipino wanted to assume if the actual problem has not been addressed or changed it will not help the country move forward. In my own opinion an individual's identity is unique in itself, regardless of your cultural background, you are your ownself, it shouldn't be a crisis if you are happy with what you are regardless of what people think or say about you.

Animo

August 4th, 2006, 07:11 PM

Okey, here is an article regarding jobs in the medical field in the USA. This revival of Spanish can be important for Filipino nurses since this seems to be the largest human export that the country can produce. Having the revival of the language does not mean that it should change everything at once. It is important for it to be available to the population first before it can be judge.

---

http://www.macon.com/images/dfw/startelegram/news/2115906-904490.jpg
Medical interpreter Bobbi Daren translates medical instructions into Spanish for Monica Salcido at a medical center in Kansas City, Kan.

By JAN JARVIS
Fort Worth Star-Telegram

It was not easy for Ben Brackett to describe his symptoms en español.

It was even more challenging for Michelle Simancas to ask the right questions in Spanish that would lead to the correct diagnosis.

But both Brackett, who was pretending to be a patient, and Simancas, who was practicing being a physician assistant, did just that as part of a unique medical Spanish class at the University of Texas Southwestern Allied Health Sciences School in Dallas.

Learning to communicate with patients in their native language is increasingly important, said Brackett, a Fort Worth paramedic who is studying to be a physician assistant.

"In Texas, where a large percentage of the population is Spanish-speaking, it will enable me to better care for their needs," he said. "Imagine what it is like if you're sick and can't communicate with your healthcare provider."

The course is the only required multisemester, linguist-taught medical Spanish curriculum in a physician assistant studies program in the nation, according to Dr. Eugene Jones, chairman of physician assistant studies at the Dallas school. Physician assistants chart medical histories, give physicals, interpret tests and develop treatment plans under a physician's supervision. Increasingly, they are playing key roles in medical practices.

Hispanics are the fastest-growing demographic group in the country, and their sheer numbers have created heightened interest in Spanish classes overall. In 2004, 41.3 million Hispanics in the U.S. made up 14 percent of the nation's population. By 2050, the Hispanic population is expected to triple, according to the Census Bureau.

An estimated 11.5 percent of people age 5 and older speak Spanish at home. In Texas, nearly 28 percent do, according to the Census Bureau.

UT Southwestern's medical Spanish course was developed to break language barriers between physician assistants and the area's large Hispanic population. About 23 percent of Tarrant County residents are Hispanic; in Dallas County, 35 percent are. Statewide, nearly 35 percent of the population is Hispanic, according to 2005 Census figures.

More than words

Hospitals often rely on translators to communicate with patients.

In Fort Worth, the JPS Health Network has 15 translators on staff 24 hours a day, said Robert Earley, senior vice president for public affairs and advocacy. It provides an average of 5,700 translation services for patients a month.

Parkland Health and Hospital System in Dallas has 90 full- and part-time employees who provide language services, said Deborah Moore, manager for patient relationships. The facility also has translators to help people over the phone.

A family member who is bilingual can help, but communication through an interpreter can be difficult, said Hank Lemke, director of physician assistant studies at the University of North Texas Health Science Center in Fort Worth.

"Sometimes even speaking the same language is not enough," he said. "The ideal situation would be to provide a healthcare provider who speaks both the same language as the patient and who understands the patient's culture as well."

Speaking to someone in their native language makes a big difference when trying to find out about their symptoms, get their medical history and make the patient feel comfortable, said Cristina Gonzalez, assistant professor of physician assistant studies at UT Southwestern Allied Health Sciences School in Dallas.

"It is scary enough being sick, but when you don't understand the language it's really frightening," she said. "Even something that is joyful, like having a baby, can become really scary."

Jill Conway, a physician assistant at Parkland, said she speaks Spanish to her patients every day.

"I'd say 70 to 80 percent are Spanish-speaking," Conway said. "To be able to communicate in their own language makes them feel comfortable and gets them to open up to you as a healthcare provider."

In the medical Spanish class, students learn about the culture as part of being able to communicate with their patients, Gonzalez said. It's not about memorizing words.

Students are taught the difference between common slang that patients are likely to use and medical terms that health professionals are more comfortable with. It's the difference between saying "tummy" and "stomach," Gonzalez said.

They also learn how some words are culturally sensitive and can make it more difficult to make an accurate diagnosis.

"A woman who describes chest pain may be having a cardiac problem, or she may have breast pain," Gonzalez said. "Or a patient may have a deep internal itch or a mosquito bite."

Anton Appelqvist, a student in the program, said that understanding Spanish helps build trust, which leads to compliance and better medical care in the long run.

"If you can't communicate in their language, you're never going to get an accurate history," he said. "You can stitch them up, but when you understand the language, you can develop trust."

The hope is that as trust is developed, patients will be more likely to get routine medical care rather than waiting until they have a serious health problem, Gonzalez said.

'A' for effort

Around the country, especially in states such as Texas with a large Hispanic population, Spanish classes are catching on among health professionals.

In 2002, the School of Nursing at the University of Texas at Austin became the first four-year nursing school in the country to require its students to take a three-credit-hour Spanish course.

The University of North Texas Health Science Center does not require students to take Spanish, but the advantages of learning the language are evident, said Robert Kaman, director of outreach at the University of North Texas Health Science Center.

"Whether it is appropriate or beneficial -- absolutely; nobody disputes that," he said. "Whether it should be mandatory is the issue."

Even when the words don't come out quite right, it's the effort to understand that helps bridge language differences, Brackett said.

"I have never had a patient that has ever laughed at me because I didn't speak good Spanish," he said. "They were just happy I was trying to speak to them in Spanish."

IN THE KNOW

Speaking Spanish

An estimated 31 million people in the United States 5 years old and older speak Spanish at home.

More than 500 million people worldwide speak Spanish.

Texas has about 3.4 million Spanish speakers.

About 5.8 percent of Internet users speak Spanish.

In the New York area, the newscasts on the Spanish-language stations have higher ratings than similar newscasts on ABC, NBC and CBS.

In the United States and Canada, Spanish is the most popular language to learn.

SOURCES: U.S. Census and Instituto Mexico Americano de Cultura
http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/news/nation/15110342.htm

jbkayaker12

August 4th, 2006, 08:29 PM

Animo

August 4th, 2006, 08:51 PM

^^^^The problem here is not with the people in the medical field not knowing how to speak the Spanish language. The problem here lie with the Hispanics not wanting to integrate by learning the official language of their adopted home country which is English.

I believe the article mainly tells the importance of communication using the peoples native language. This can be the same for Filipino patients talking in Tagalog or whatever to Filipino nurses/aids. This can be important for diagnosis and having the patient feel more comfortable. Anyway, the US has no official language but some states specify English; de facto.

Now the United States is bending over backwards to accomodate these stubborn and arrogant group of people at the expense of the American taxpayers.

They too are American taxpayers who will be the largest "minority" in the future. This reminds me of the comment: "We did not cross the border, the border crossed us".

xDieselJockx

August 4th, 2006, 10:25 PM

I believe the article mainly tells the importance of communication using the peoples native language. This can be the same for Filipino patients talking in Tagalog or whatever to Filipino nurses/aids. This can be important for diagnosis and having the patient feel more comfortable. Anyway, the US has no official language but some states specify English; de facto.

They too are American taxpayers who will be the largest "minority" in the future. This reminds me of the comment: "We did not cross the border, the border crossed us".

The governement is actually making it sure that the english language is the official language in the whole United States without making it sound like other languages are banned because that is a violation of human rights.

These spanish speakers who can't even say a single word in english are mostly illegal immigrants as it is somehow a requirement to speak english to get a greencard and most especially US citizenships since they have to go through interviews. So basically, an illegal immigrant is not paying tax to uncle Sam, they don't have their own social security number ,so, they don't declare their earnings, they are basically being paid under the table.

It's just a human right violation if the hospital or ny medical health personnel will deny an illegal immigrant the care they needed. That and getting governmental support is somewhat causing an outcry amongst all the tax payers in America.

jbkayaker12

August 5th, 2006, 07:23 AM

I believe the article mainly tells the importance of communication using the peoples native language. This can be the same for Filipino patients talking in Tagalog or whatever to Filipino nurses/aids. This can be important for diagnosis and having the patient feel more comfortable. Anyway, the US has no official language but some states specify English; de facto.

They too are American taxpayers who will be the largest "minority" in the future. This reminds me of the comment: "We did not cross the border, the border crossed us".

In that case why just learn Spanish and Tagalog, there are so many nationalities in the United States that speak different languages. Now does this mean that the medical staff should also learn all the languages spoken by these people? Think about your argument. The English language binds every single one of the residents here in the United States and there should be no compromise.

In the case of the Filipinos working in the medical field, our command of the English language and our education has given us an advantage over others. Why not improve that competitive advantage by focusing more on improving our knowledge of the English language and at the same time improving the educational system in the Philippines. I've noticed that our command of the English language has been slowly fading and with that our competitiveness will slowly slip away. Our knowledge of the English language and education has open doors for us in the world arena why not make it better?

If hospitals in the United States would like to hire Spanish speaking nurses, believe me the Philippines will not be on top of their list.

Regarding borders and the true owners of the land we call the United States that will be another argument and keep in mind the Native American Indians. :)

Oh and about the taxes, a lot of them are illegals they don't pay taxes. Paying income tax will surely expose their identities and status. :)

Animo

August 5th, 2006, 06:40 PM

The governement is actually making it sure that the english language is the official language in the whole United States without making it sound like other languages are banned because that is a violation of human rights.

I know but currently their is no official language for the federal system. In New Mexico the Spanish language does hold co-official status in the state and in the U.S. territory of Puerto Rico.

These spanish speakers who can't even say a single word in english are mostly illegal immigrants as it is somehow a requirement to speak english to get a greencard and most especially US citizenships since they have to go through interviews. So basically, an illegal immigrant is not paying tax to uncle Sam, they don't have their own social security number ,so, they don't declare their earnings, they are basically being paid under the table.

I know but not all 41.3 million Spanish speakers or Hispanics are illegal.

It's just a human right violation if the hospital or ny medical health personnel will deny an illegal immigrant the care they needed. That and getting governmental support is somewhat causing an outcry amongst all the tax payers in America.

Of course. When it comes to humanity one should be color or "legally" blind.

Animo

August 5th, 2006, 06:53 PM

In that case why just learn Spanish and Tagalog, there are so many nationalities in the United States that speak different languages. Now does this mean that the medical staff should also learn all the languages spoken by these people? Think about your argument. The English language binds every single one of the residents here in the United States and there should be no compromise.

To answer your question is because of practicality. The Spanish language is the number one preferred foreign language being taught and spoken in North America. Since, the patients would normally be a Spanish speaker it does not hurt knowing the language if you are a nurse or any other other jobs that caters to a large population. I am not against the English language by any means, but one must know the people you are giving your services too.

In the case of the Filipinos working in the medical field, our command of the English language and our education has given us an advantage over others. Why not improve that competitive advantage by focusing more on improving our knowledge of the English language and at the same time improving the educational system in the Philippines. I've noticed that our command of the English language has been slowly fading and with that our competitiveness will slowly slip away. Our knowledge of the English language and education has open doors for us in the world arena why not make it better?

Yes, the English language is no longer the forte of the Philippines. I am not against it for being taught in schools but it should not be shove down upon the population. As stated before here, I am pro-native language when in comes to teaching Filipinos and then later on have both English and Spanish available in schools. Not eveyone is going to be working in foreign lands. The local languages of the regions should also be use in helping to teach the population. Also, statistics are available that children should to be taught how to read in their native language while acquiring oral proficiency in English or any languages. It helps in knowing the language.

If hospitals in the United States would like to hire Spanish speaking nurses, believe me the Philippines will not be on top of their list.

Why not if one is fluent and readly available? I am sure everyone can attest to the quality of service that Filipinos gives to their jobs.

Animo

August 5th, 2006, 07:19 PM

August 5, 2006

Forcible Language Imposition

One fine afternoon in Dumaguete, Negros Oriental, a center of Cebuano Visayan culture, I got hungry and went to Scooby’s a local fastfood. The guy in line front of me opened his order by saying “Magtagalog kayo, hindi ako nakakaintindi ng Bisaya.”

From the viewpoint of a Nationalist, that’s OK. Filipino Nationalism is the same as Tagalism. Yet from a commonsensical point of view, there is something sick with this picture.

Why are the native Visayans of Dumaguete being forced by foreign Tagalogs to adapt to them, right in their own territory? Why are Visayan and other non-Tagalog Philippine languages being rendered valueless and being discriminated against right in their traditional territories in the Philippines?

This is not an isolated incident. Just about three months ago, again in Dumaguete, as I ordered Pizza in Dumaguete’s Pizza Hut, the waiter started talking to me in Tagalog. I requested him to speak in Bisaya. He stared at me as though I were an alien in Negros and said he did not understand Bisaya. I was incredulous. Who was the alien, he or I? I told him this was a Visayan place, and I, a paying Visayan customer certainly would not stoop below him that I would be the one to adapt to him, a foreigner. I called the manager. It was worse. The manager did not know Bisaya either. Pizza Hut Dumaguete had become an institute that spreads Tagalism and discrimination against indigenous Visayans. So I wrote in their feedback form that it was my opinion that Pizza Hut was discriminating against Visayans right in an old Visayan place, and that I am suggesting that their waiters should be trained to speak Binisaya.

In Butuan, medreps from Manila who would cover me and promote their products with me would sometimes tell me, “Doc, I do not understand Bisaya.” My consistent reply is (stated in a polite manner) “YOU learn Bisaya while your are in Butuan and Mindanao if you hope to do your job and cover me.” Naturally, they do. If we Visayans insist on our language rights, most Tagalogs (except the die-hard Tagalista supremacist) would naturally respect us.

Visayans adapting to Tagalog all the time even in Visayas and Mindanao lowers their social status in their traditional areas and gives Tagalogs a superiority complex, and affirms for Tagalistas that their movement to kill off every non-Tagalog language in the Philippines is succeeding, encouraging them in more arrogant actuations.

The above incidents sound familiar do they not? How many times have you been forced by Manilenos acting as if they owned the Philippines to speak in their language right inside the Visayas itself?

In schools, it’s even worse. Schoolchildren with malleable and innocent minds are FINED by ‘Filipino’ teachers, with the full approval of higher ups in the Department of Education, whenever they speak the indigenous language of their place. This open and rampant trampling of the language rights of non-Tagalog innocent CHILDREN has been going on for generations, such that we have become inured to it. If a the German equivalent of a Tagalista teacher were to fine French speaking schoolchildren in the French-speaking part of Switzerland insistingthat they should speak in German, the children’s parents would probably sue his pants off. (Switzerland officially recognizes four languages German, Frensh, Italian, and Romance.)

Since Tagalog (honey-coated as 'Filipino') is a requirement in the Department of Education curriculum of schools, a Filipino in school is FORCED to learn it, giving this language and the ethnic people it defines a super majority social status in the Philippines. Indeed if a student does not learn Tagalog, he or she would flunk out of school.

What can we do?

Write in the feedback papers of eateries, restaurants, and hotels that they should train waiters to respect the local culture by speaking in the local language as much as possible. If you are the customer, you are always right, as the old adage says. Do not just keep quiet for ‘politeness’ sake. On the contrary, it is NOT polite for establishments to discriminate against your native culture and language right in your own territory. They have to be told that they are not being polite, or they would simply continue their discriminatory practice until everyone would become inured to it and regard it as normal.

In the long run, the solution lies in an overhaul of the Department of Education Curriculum that treats any non-Tagalog Philippine language as alien such that any subject teaching them would be regarded as extra-curricular, and the creation and implementation of enabling laws that officializes non-Tagalog languages.

(If you have any comments, please email jdpensar@yahoo.com or text to 09204045409.)

Askal82

August 5th, 2006, 07:23 PM

The European countries (except U.K) are already making the move to use English as it's lingua franca.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_as_a_lingua_franca_for_Europe

Askal82

August 5th, 2006, 07:43 PM

In China too, English is gaining ground. My co-worker who came back from China a month ago told me that many young Shanghai residents can now speak and write English. It is the 2nd most taught foreign language in school. The government is aggressive in promoting its use.

Ratoncito

August 5th, 2006, 08:03 PM

jbkayaker12

August 6th, 2006, 12:07 AM

Hola a todos

Spain has became in the last 15 years a big investor all over the world, but mainly in Europe and the Hispanic América; In these countries, Spain is the main investor and has overtaken the US.

I do think it would be profitable for Filipinas to reestablish Spanish as one of her national languages.

Lots of Spanish companies are facing Asia to open new markets and, of course, for historial reasons, Filipinas is gonna be our base. Take a look at MAPFRE ASISTENCIA: http://www.mapfreasian.com/main.asp

But, putting this economical reasons aside, Spanish is part of Filipinas History and culture so without speaking it, Filipinos are missing an important part of themselves.

SALUDOS A TODOS

The most important thing MISSING in the Philippines is NOT being able to speak the Spanish language but rather our very own INDIGENOUS culture and HISTORY which were SYSTEMATICALLY and INTENTIONALY destroyed by the Spaniards. If the Spaniards wanted to teach the natives their language they could have done it within the over 300 years they've spent in the archipelago but since their attitude towards the locals were exclusionary the outcome was the complete opposite.

overtureph

August 6th, 2006, 12:14 AM

jbkayaker12

August 6th, 2006, 12:30 AM

To answer your question is because of practicality. The Spanish language is the number one preferred foreign language being taught and spoken in North America. Since, the patients would normally be a Spanish speaker it does not hurt knowing the language if you are a nurse or any other other jobs that caters to a large population. I am not against the English language by any means, but one must know the people you are giving your services too.

Yes, the English language is no longer the forte of the Philippines. I am not against it for being taught in schools but it should not be shove down upon the population. As stated before here, I am pro-native language when in comes to teaching Filipinos and then later on have both English and Spanish available in schools. Not eveyone is going to be working in foreign lands. The local languages of the regions should also be use in helping to teach the population. Also, statistics are available that children should to be taught how to read in their native language while acquiring oral proficiency in English or any languages. It helps in knowing the language.

Why not if one is fluent and readly available? I am sure everyone can attest to the quality of service that Filipinos gives to their jobs.

You are excluding other nationalities with different languages in the United States now do you honestly think it is practical to learn all these languages instead of one universal well accepted language?

Regarding Filipinos fluency in the Spanish language which you are advocating Filipinos should learn, what do you think is happening lately with the Filipinos command of the English language? It is faltering and mind you slipping fast. Now instead of focusing on the Spanish language why not improve on the English language which has given us an advantage the world over and not just regional mind you. This would be more practical and definitely helpful in the long run. Nationals from Asia are coming to our shores to learn the English language and there is a reason behind all the interest in this particular language.

jbkayaker12

August 6th, 2006, 12:39 AM

By not teaching the Spanish language widely, to a certain degree they (the Spaniards) and we (the Filipinos) were able to maintain and preserve a part of our indigenious culture which is our native dialects and languages. Let us remember that the friars compiled and made dictionaries which were mostly published. And speaking of history, Spain was a part of our history for more than 300 hundred years. There is no sense in denying this,

If you look into our pre-hispanic history, not much details nor information can be had. Our indigenous culture has been intentionally destroyed by the colonizers of which Spain as being one of them. That you cant deny! Regarding the Spaniards not teaching us the Spanish language and only a select few learning it, the Spaniards thought of the locals as not worthy of their language and not because they want to preserve our indigenous culture. If that were the case back then, Spanish should have never been introduced in the archipelago even to the select few.

Animo

August 6th, 2006, 12:44 AM

You are excluding other nationalities with different languages in the United States now do you honestly think it is practical to learn all these languages instead of one universal well accepted language?

In the current trend in the US, both Spanish and English are becoming its national language. If you would ask a European or an Asian which foreign language you would actually benefit from they would all say: Spanish.

English would of course be necessesary to learn and know.

Regarding Filipinos fluency in the Spanish language which you are advocating Filipinos should learn, what do you think is happening lately with the Filipinos command of the English language?
It is faltering and mind you slipping fast. Now instead of focusing on the Spanish language why not improve on the English language which has given us an advantage the world over and not just regional mind you. This would be more practical and definitely helpful in the long run. Nationals from Asia are coming to our shores to learn the English language and there is a reason behind all the interest in this particular language.

If we are going to talk linguistically the Spanish language and native languages in the Philippines are both compatible than the English language. I doubt it will be hard to pronounce or spell since it is much more familiar to Filipinos than English. Both languages have incorporated and benefitted from each other in enriching its vocabulary. This familiarity might be an advantage since Filipinos seems to forget or have a hard time in keeping the English language.

Yes, English is important but it is not the only important language in the world. Other nations in Asia are learning English but Spanish is also gaining its importance in the region as Instituto Cervantes have been opening in these countries and I remember posting an article where Thailand and another country are having Spanish taught in grade school.

Animo

August 6th, 2006, 12:46 AM

If you look into our pre-hispanic history, not much details nor information can be had. Our indigenous culture has been intentionally destroyed by the colonizers of which Spain as being one of them. That you cant deny! Regarding the Spaniards not teaching us the Spanish language and only a select few learning it, the Spaniards thought of the locals as not worthy of their language and not because they want to preserve our indigenous culture. If that were the case back then, Spanish should have never been introduced in the archipelago even to the select few.

If you answered that as part of your essay about Philippine history to a historian then you'll surely going to fail. These comments are half-truths without fully understand history.

- Their are histories about pre-hispanic Philippine written in the Spanish language. That might figure why not many Filipinos know about its past.

- The indigenous culture has been retained and influenced by Hispanic culture.

- The Spanish language was taught to the population but public education started later in the 19th century. The Americas, Europe, Asia and even the US have people who are uneducated and cannot even read and write. Again, we must see things in historical context. The ideas of equality, democracy, free education and alike were brought about by the liberal movements in Europe in the early to mid-19th century. Spain established universal education in the Philippines in the middle of that century. In fact making the country the most advanced in Asia from an academic point of view.

Before that, free education (teaching languages to the natives) was not a standard according to the mentality of those times. Free education was NOT a norm in ANY State before the 19th century. Not in France, nor the Germanies, nor Britain, nor China, nor Japan before the spread of liberal democracy and industrialization. Again the whole notion of ONE national language that should be disseminated through a public education system only came about during the 19th century. It began in Western Europe and spread to the rest.

- It was political will that enabled the Spanish language to grow in Latin America. That is why the First Filipino Republic declared it as the language of the republic.

Louman

August 6th, 2006, 12:57 AM

jbkayaker12

August 6th, 2006, 12:57 AM

^^^^^Economically speaking, it is to our advantage to have Filipinos fluency in English improved. The largest companies in the world, the country with the most number of companies investing the world over are in the United States and the international language of business is English. That is all I have to say! Thank you, we are going in circles here.

Goodluck with the Filipinos all over the world!

Animo

August 6th, 2006, 01:02 AM

Louman

August 6th, 2006, 01:03 AM

Read and learn your history first before you preach.

Same to you.

Animo

August 6th, 2006, 01:04 AM

Same to you.

I just did.

overtureph

August 6th, 2006, 01:27 AM

If you answered that as part of your essay about Philippine history to a historian then you'll surely going to fail. These comments are half-truths without fully understand history.

- Their are histories about pre-hispanic Philippine written in the Spanish language. That might figure why not many Filipinos know about its past.

- The indigenous culture has been retained and influenced by Hispanic culture.

- The Spanish language was taught to the population but public education started later in the 19th century. The Americas, Europe, Asia and even the US have people who are uneducated and cannot even read and write. Again, we must see things in historical context. The ideas of equality, democracy, free education and alike were brought about by the liberal movements in Europe in the early to mid-19th century. Spain established universal education in the Philippines in the middle of that century. In fact making the country the most advanced in Asia from an academic point of view.

Before that, free education (teaching languages to the natives) was not a standard according to the mentality of those times. Free education was NOT a norm in ANY State before the 19th century. Not in France, nor the Germanies, nor Britain, nor China, nor Japan before the spread of liberal democracy and industrialization. Again the whole notion of ONE national language that should be disseminated through a public education system only came about during the 19th century. It began in Western Europe and spread to the rest.

- It was political will that enabled the Spanish language to grow in Latin America. That is why the First Filipino Republic declared it as the language of the republic.

Very well said Animo. Bravo! Even during the Philippine revolution and with it the Malolos constitution, was written in Spanish. If the revolution was anti-Spanish, why did the framers and members of the Malolos convention wrote the constitution in Spanish.

Let me sight a practical use of Spanish, I came from the banking sector in the Philippines. Currently, I'm here in the States and looking for a job which will approximate my previous work experiences. So I am trying to get a job in a bank which some positions require, remember this is in the States, to be bilingual, the other language being Spanish. Surprise, surprise. Unfortunately, back in college, Spanish was not taught to us with the exception I think for some courses like philosophy.

And look at the bank of the family of Henry Sy, being Filipino-Chinese, they still named the bank in Spanish - Banco de Oro.

overtureph

August 6th, 2006, 01:44 AM

^^^^The problem here is not with the people in the medical field not knowing how to speak the Spanish language. The problem here lie with the Hispanics not wanting to integrate by learning the official language of their adopted home country which is English. Now the United States is bending over backwards to accomodate these stubborn and arrogant group of people at the expense of the American taxpayers.

This statement I think is an arrogant claim and over-simplifying the heart of the matter. Try to remember that parts of the US where once part of the Spanish empire and then of Mexico. Places like California, Texas etc. That's why there are places like San Diego, Los Angeles, The Rio Grande Valley etc.

One of the things that made the US a great nation and a superpower even unto this day is the diverse nationalities and their culture which the US respects and protect. But at least I do agree with you that immigrants should take the time in learning English.

overtureph

August 6th, 2006, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by jbkayaker12
In that case why just learn Spanish and Tagalog, there are so many nationalities in the United States that speak different languages. Now does this mean that the medical staff should also learn all the languages spoken by these people? Think about your argument. The English language binds every single one of the residents here in the United States and there should be no compromise.

If I'm not mistaken, Pres. Bush speaks Spanish and even gives some talks in Spanish.

jbkayaker12

August 6th, 2006, 02:28 AM

jbkayaker12

August 6th, 2006, 03:02 AM

This statement I think is an arrogant claim and over-simplifying the heart of the matter. Try to remember that parts of the US where once part of the Spanish empire and then of Mexico. Places like California, Texas etc. That's why there are places like San Diego, Los Angeles, The Rio Grande Valley etc.

The Europeans first arrived in the land we now call USA around the 16th century and at first be-friended the Native American Indians, later on occupied and colonized the land, called it their own. Dutch, British, Irish, Italians....also arrived and occupied this land.

Fast forward to 21st century the rulers of these land and the majority of the people speak a common language which we call the English language, now shall we rewind back to the 16th century and start speaking, Dutch, Spanish....

It will be beneficial for everyone not just the Hispanics but for the majority of the people to have a language that binds or unifies a land populated by so many different nationalities.

overtureph

August 6th, 2006, 03:19 AM

:applause:

Amen to that. Spanish out of the Philippines. Tell the King of Spain to SHOVE IT. The last thing we need to worry about in the Philippines is bringing back anything that the Spanish "gave" us. What about the things our ancestors gave us?

I think this is an offensive statement and a denying of our history (again). Our histories - pre-Spanish or pre-colonial, Spanish colonial era, the short British invasion, the short-lived Philippine Republic and the Revolution, the American colonial era, the Japanese invasion, post colonial Republic era including Martial Law and People Power are all important to us as a nation and as a people. These are points in time that help us evolve and develop into a nation. We cannot deny or exclude more than 300 years of history and only accept the other parts of our past.

Try to remember that it was the Spaniards who helped unite in what is today the Philippines even the derivative of our nation's name came from them. If we go by your argument, then Filipinos who have Spanish names and surnames should change this to what to you would be more ethnic, speak purely in one's own dialect without mixing it with Spanish derive words, if one was a graduate of a Catholic school most specially the ones founded during the Spanish regime one should denounce this and unlearn everything. And what about being Catholic Christians. I hope you get my point.

There where bad things that was brought by colonialism but certainly there where also good things that we have derive from being a former colony.

bitoy

August 6th, 2006, 03:20 AM

If you answered that as part of your essay about Philippine history to a historian then you'll surely going to fail. These comments are half-truths without fully understand history.

- Their are histories about pre-hispanic Philippine written in the Spanish language. That might figure why not many Filipinos know about its past.

Dude, you might fail in English subject first. :D :jk:

Anyways, how can he fail when writing his essay to a historian?

- The indigenous culture has been retained and influenced by Hispanic culture.

Some indigenous cultures have been retained and some were influenced because that's the way of life under Spain.

- The Spanish language was taught to the population but public education started later in the 19th century. The Americas, Europe, Asia and even the US have people who are uneducated and cannot even read and write. Again, we must see things in historical context. The ideas of equality, democracy, free education and alike were brought about by the liberal movements in Europe in the early to mid-19th century.
Before that, free education (teaching languages to the natives) was not a standard according to the mentality of those times. Free education was NOT a norm in ANY State before the 19th century. Not in France, nor the Germanies, nor Britain, nor China, nor Japan before the spread of liberal democracy and industrialization. Again the whole notion of ONE national language that should be disseminated through a public education system only came about during the 19th century. It began in Western Europe and spread to the rest.

- It was political will that enabled the Spanish language to grow in Latin America. That is why the First Filipino Republic declared it as the language of the republic.

I agree with you on some of those statements since I've read some of those so many times on the web, except the last part.

I read that Aguinaldo made his speech in Tagalog first then in Spanish when he addressed the Malolos Congress.

overtureph

August 6th, 2006, 03:28 AM

^^^^Bending over backwards doesn't make it right! I suppose forget the other languages spoken by the rest of the people living in the United States of which there are plenty and forget the unifying language spoken by the MAJORITY!!

Oh and let me add I've been asked if I speak Spanish at work by hispanics, why should I and why should I cater to them? Why can't Hispanics cater to the majority for the COMMON GOOD of EVERYONE!

Who said anything about bending backwards? If anything, I think the American government and it's policies has probably got one of the strongest resolve there is. What I admire from them is the respect and the rights given to immigrants who value their heritage. Remember the Spanish version of the Star Spangled Banner, was it officially sanctioned? I think not. So who's bending backward?

And what I admire from the Hispanics and other cultures generally speaking, is their affection and being conscious about their heritage and culture.

We Filipinos should learn and be conscious about our history and culture. Wether we like it or not, we were once a colony and that part of our history is also a part of us.

overtureph

August 6th, 2006, 03:40 AM

The Europeans first arrived in the land we now call USA around the 16th century and at first be-friended the Native American Indians, later on occupied and colonized the land, called it their own. Dutch, British, Irish, Italians....also arrived and occupied this land.

Fast forward to 21st century the rulers of these land and the majority of the people speak a common language which we call the English language, now shall we rewind back to the 16th century and start speaking, Dutch, Spanish....

It will be beneficial for everyone not just the Hispanics but for the majority of the people to have a language that binds or unifies a land populated by so many different nationalities.

I strongly agree with you that it would be beneficial to have a language that would bind a nation and it's people. I think this is very important. But let me point out just a small a very small exception, although one might say that there is no comparison or it's like comparing apples and oranges, but Switzerland is an advance and prosperous nation with not just one official language.

And the nice thing about the US is the importance it gives to the heritage of people from diverse ethnic backgrounds. Like for example, St. Patrick's Day, now not every American has an Irish ancestor. And if I may add, there's also Cinco de Mayo.

overtureph

August 6th, 2006, 03:42 AM

I never knew that there is such a strong anti-Spanish sentiment from some of the forumers here.

jbkayaker12

August 6th, 2006, 03:52 AM

overtureph

August 6th, 2006, 04:03 AM

You are now straying away from the topic which were being discussed in the last few posts here and my apologies if my posts were not completely relevant to the original thread. It is about the Hispanics not wanting to integrate by way of learning the English language in the United States spoken by the MAJORITY!

Regarding your admiration for the Hispanics and their culture, keep in mind that we are discussing about the Hispanics who reside in the United States whether legally or illegally and their total disregard of the majority of the people residing in the United States speaking a common language which is the English language. Personally speaking, I see it as arrogance!!

I do agree we are both straying from the original thread. The people here whom I got to talked to and who are originally from Mexico can speak English. The ones that I know of are very nice. Although there are instances when I need to get an interpreter but there are times when you get to guess what the other is trying to say, I guess because of our background of once being a colony of Spain.

What I was saying was my admiration for the Hispanics and other cultures is the way they value there heritage, culture and history.

bitoy

August 6th, 2006, 04:11 AM

I never knew that there is such a strong anti-Spanish sentiment from some of the forumers here.

Not everyone is Anti-Spanish, just bringing back the Spanish language to be learned by Filipinos.
But since Spanish and other foreign words have been assimilated to our language or dialects spoken by every Filipinos, there is no need for everyone to learn the Spanish language. Only those interested and in need should learn it.

Louman

August 6th, 2006, 05:51 AM

overtureph

August 6th, 2006, 06:59 AM

Josepepe

August 6th, 2006, 12:33 PM

I think we should just rename the "Good News" thread to "National Unity through Economic Prosperity and Name Recognition." I mean, everytime Pacquiao wins and during the whole nation becomes one again. Heck, when we were kicking ass during the SEA Games, it was like Pacquiao was winning every week. We should instead pursue things that will bring good news to our country to create national unity instead of wasting time and money bringing back Spanish. And what does not learning and being anti-Spanish have to do with denying our history? We can learn our history in Tagalog, Bisaya or what ever Pilipino language we read it in. If you mean learning about the "good" things the Spanish gave to the Pilipinos, that's like a book about the good things the White race did to people of African descent, especially in America. What about the good things the Japanese did to the Koreans? I'm sure they'll be proud to write and read those. hahaha.

so what? your analogies are irrelevant to the Philippine setting. your simpleton premise of the evilness of men because of skin color is reverse racist mentality. think again with what you are spouting with the premise of white: bad, colored: good. this is what your post is alluding. dude, you dont know what it means to be on the receiving end of racism like i did. but unlike you, i dont blame the entire White race for it. indeed, the White race too has contributed to human civilization and progress. in fact, if you have an inkling at all about the culture and ethnology of the pre-hispanic past before a philippines even existed you would have notice the silliness of your post. i hate to break it to you but the pre-hispanic pre-filipino past is not perfect either. besides, i would rather learn my own people's history in bisaya than in tagalog because that is my nation to follow your "logic". i am not tagalog. get it? however, the history of the filipino people which is what the collective nations of the philippines are can only be learned in Spanish because this is the language of filipino history, get it? but i doubt it..... oh and yes, the spanish did contribute to the making of a country called the philippines. now whether they intended it or not is beside the point. this is because the making of the philippines is a good thing . that, dude, is not an overstatement because i dont need to pretend and go "native" to know what it means.

bankaw itomon

Askal82

August 6th, 2006, 05:56 PM

In the current trend in the US, both Spanish and English are becoming its national language. If you would ask a European or an Asian which foreign language you would actually benefit from they would all say: Spanish.

English would of course be necessesary to learn and know.

Hmmm, why is it necesarry to learn English if Spanish is the foreign language to be benefitted from? I thought benefit is the end product of necessity. You're statements contradict with each other.

If we are going to talk linguistically the Spanish language and native languages in the Philippines are both compatible than the English language. I doubt it will be hard to pronounce or spell since it is much more familiar to Filipinos than English. Both languages have incorporated and benefitted from each other in enriching its vocabulary. This familiarity might be an advantage since Filipinos seems to forget or have a hard time in keeping the English language.

Yes, English is important but it is not the only important language in the world. Other nations in Asia are learning English but Spanish is also gaining its importance in the region as Instituto Cervantes have been opening in these countries and I remember posting an article where Thailand and another country are having Spanish taught in grade school.

Spanish is a European language compared to Filipino languages which are of Austronesian variety. Filipino languages merely adopted words or vocabularies from Spanish into its own just like what English did from the Norman French and Latin. The French and Spaniards rarely teach their constitutents (English and Filipino) their language because they are reserved to the elite and educated groups of people. Both languages became the medium of communication for commerce, law, education and science during those times but it doesn't necesarilly mean that the majority can speak it. The grammatical structures and the arrangements between these languages are simply very different from each other. The concept of Filipino languages similar to Spanish is a myth.

Animo

August 6th, 2006, 06:27 PM

Dude, you might fail in English subject first. :D :jk:

Anyways, how can he fail when writing his essay to a historian?

I would have grammatical error because I was busy preparing to go to a cotillion. :)

Some indigenous cultures have been retained and some were influenced because that's the way of life under Spain.

I would not refute this because it was hard for the missionaries to go to all islands and in the mountainous regions.

I agree with you on some of those statements since I've read some of those so many times on the web, except the last part.

I learn most of my posting from a group of professors and other knowledgeable people from Latin America, Spain, US, and the Philippines. I have cited them most of the time before here.

Animo

August 6th, 2006, 06:33 PM

Hmmm, why is it necesarry to learn English if Spanish is the foreign language to be benefitted from? I thought benefit is the end product of necessity. You're statements contradict with each other.

Whoever said that learning more languages can do harm in the individual? I think you have live enough in the USA to know the answer. :)

Spanish is a European language compared to Filipino languages which are of Austronesian variety. Filipino languages merely adopted words or vocabularies from Spanish into its own just like what English did from the Norman French and Latin. The French and Spaniards rarely teach their constitutents (English and Filipino) their language because they are reserved to the elite and educated groups of people. Both languages became the medium of communication for commerce, law, education and science during those times but it doesn't necesarilly mean that the majority can speak it. The grammatical structures and the arrangements between these languages are simply very different from each other. The concept of Filipino languages similar to Spanish is a myth.

Yes, but I am talking about compatibility. The germanic language has not influence the Filipino languages as much as the Latin language. Read my post again about the history of public education. It was not a norm to teach the poor. Yes, it was mostly reservered to the elite, merchant, monks or the religious, and the nobility throughout the word at that time.

Askal82

August 6th, 2006, 09:23 PM

Another similarity with both English and Filipino languages are that both languages gets Romanized and further evolved throughout the history due to influence by French and Spaniard. It is what separates the Filipino languages further from its Austronesian cousins such as Malay, Javanese, or Indonesia the same way English splitted away from Modern German, Dutch, Norman and other Germanic languages.

xDieselJockx

August 7th, 2006, 12:06 AM

xDieselJockx

August 7th, 2006, 12:24 AM

Hola a todos

But, putting this economical reasons aside, Spanish is part of Filipinas History and culture so without speaking it, Filipinos are missing an important part of themselves.

SALUDOS A TODOS

Not necessarily, the filipinos still practice catholism and the culture passed on from history from their forefather right? Then it's their way of life it will linger on, they follow what their parents taught them all throughout these years.

Like from an article before, during the Spanish era, only 10% of the Philippine populations speaks spanish, only the elite, mestisos and the well educated speaks the language, the indos were prohibited as much as possible to learn it Why? because the spaniards doesn't want the natives to learn so they can eslave them and the poor natives won't even have the clue. Just lucky that there are filipinos who happen to be mestisos openned their eyes suh as Rizal and many others. It's probably the reason that there are many filipinos who lives overseas deny or even say they are half filipino only because, in the earlier years they their ancestors were made to think and feel that the native filipinos are less of a person unless they have a real spanish blood in their veins.

Just because the old birth certificates of their great grand parents were in spanish, it means, they were spanish also. It just happen that the system of recording birth and since the spanish run the country for years together with their oppressing treatments to the natives. It's just part of their way to control the natives.

Mrs DieselJock

xDieselJockx

August 7th, 2006, 12:41 AM

In the current trend in the US, both Spanish and English are becoming its national language. If you would ask a European or an Asian which foreign language you would actually benefit from they would all say: Spanish.

Ummm, not really?? Otherwise the US constitution would of been translated in Spanish already.

Asians would never say they would benefit in Spanish. They've been struggling to learn english itself. Look at the influx of a native english speakers being hired to teach alot of asian country population? From kids to adults and elderly, they were signing up for english teaching schools. In the Philippines alone, like what you guys discussed in a different thread, there are many Koreans whom has been going to the Philippines to learn english in some selected english teaching institutions. Europeans are learning more english now even in Spain.

xDieselJockx

August 7th, 2006, 12:53 AM

Let me sight a practical use of Spanish, I came from the banking sector in the Philippines. Currently, I'm here in the States and looking for a job which will approximate my previous work experiences. So I am trying to get a job in a bank which some positions require, remember this is in the States, to be bilingual, the other language being Spanish. Surprise, surprise. Unfortunately, back in college, Spanish was not taught to us with the exception I think for some courses like philosophy.

That is because the American corparations aims to make money and at the same time avoid inciting commotions that would make the spanish people think they are being mistreated. Alot of Spanish like the mexicans won't even get an education, not even attempt to learn english. It's not that they really trying toadvocate the Spanish language for the sake of the whole country and try to hispanize the whole United States. That clamor to have some spanish speaking employees were only centred in major cities like Cali, Houston and Miami, in the central US, it's not a must to have a spanish speaker.

If Spanish is really a good criteria to have, let's say wiht the nurses, why would you think that the american hospital corporations would hire chinese and indians to staff their hospitals instead of filipinos only?

xDieselJockx

August 7th, 2006, 01:00 AM

If I'm not mistaken, Pres. Bush speaks Spanish and even gives some talks in Spanish.

Yes, but then he indicated also that the lingua the franca in America is english and stressed the importance of learning english when acquiring US Citizenship.

xDieselJockx

August 7th, 2006, 01:09 AM

I strongly agree with you that it would be beneficial to have a language that would bind a nation and it's people. I think this is very important. But let me point out just a small a very small exception, although one might say that there is no comparison or it's like comparing apples and oranges, but Switzerland is an advance and prosperous nation with not just one official language.

And the nice thing about the US is the importance it gives to the heritage of people from diverse ethnic backgrounds. Like for example, St. Patrick's Day, now not every American has an Irish ancestor. And if I may add, there's also Cinco de Mayo.

Cinco de Mayo and St Patrick aren't really given much importance as recognizing the heritage here in America, it was just an excuse to drink, party and pick up women or women pick up men for fun to satisfy the lebido..LOL

xDieselJockx

August 7th, 2006, 01:38 AM

so what? your analogies are irrelevant to the Philippine setting. your simpleton premise of the evilness of men because of skin color is reverse racist mentality. think again with what you are spouting with the premise of white: bad, colored: good. this is what your post is alluding. dude, you dont know what it means to be on the receiving end of racism like i did. but unlike you, i dont blame the entire White race for it. indeed, the White race too has contributed to human civilization and progress. in fact, if you have an inkling at all about the culture and ethnology of the pre-hispanic past before a philippines even existed you would have notice the silliness of your post. i hate to break it to you but the pre-hispanic pre-filipino past is not perfect either. besides, i would rather learn my own people's history in bisaya than in tagalog because that is my nation to follow your "logic". i am not tagalog. get it? however, the history of the filipino people which is what the collective nations of the philippines are can only be learned in Spanish because this is the language of filipino history, get it? but i doubt it..... oh and yes, the spanish did contribute to the making of a country called the philippines. now whether they intended it or not is beside the point. this is because the making of the philippines is a good thing . that, dude, is not an overstatement because i dont need to pretend and go "native" to know what it means.

bankaw itomon

True, you can learn the Philippine history in your native Bisaya. There is nothing wrong with that. To understand why the filipinos are like how they are right now. But does it have to be advocating the teaching of the Spanish language and re-imposed the learning of the spanish language all over again? Heck, like the history itself that was posted posted before in this thread, the spaniards themselves deprived the filipino natives to learn the language of the elit which is the Spanish language. During the spanish era, only 10% speaks the language, before the American colonization it dwindled to only 6%, after that it slowly disappeared since most of the Spaniards and the mestisos moved to Spain, Europe and North America up until the Marcos Era who is an Ilocano and whose wife is Waray didn't even advocate the use of Spanish in the Philippine language nor change the Philippine national language to Ilocano or Warray for their own benefit instead, Tagalog and english were more encouraged they were not a tagalog even. So, the problem there are with the visiyans who has to be overly opinionated about the tagalogs.

Lili

August 7th, 2006, 05:34 AM

Oh, after a lull in the discussion, things are buzzing here again.

Well, the only thing new here is the appearance of @Mrs. xDieseljockX. lol

xDieselJockx

August 7th, 2006, 06:45 AM

Oh, after a lull in the discussion, things are buzzing here again.

Well, the only thing new here is the appearance of @Mrs. xDieseljockX. lol

Made it look like I have multiple personality. Ain't that somethin aye??LOL

Josepepe

August 7th, 2006, 08:21 AM

The most important thing MISSING in the Philippines is NOT being able to speak the Spanish language but rather our very own INDIGENOUS culture and HISTORY which were SYSTEMATICALLY and INTENTIONALY destroyed by the Spaniards. If the Spaniards wanted to teach the natives their language they could have done it within the over 300 years they've spent in the archipelago but since their attitude towards the locals were exclusionary the outcome was the complete opposite.

Myths have a way of rearing its ugly head over and over again. First, the important thing that's missing in the philippines to become a filipino nation without amnesia and selective historical memories is the absence of the spanish language. Without it we are not a filipino nation but a bad of copy of the tagalog nation instead. Second, you are wrong about the spanish language not having been taught to the natives. The products of that spanish language education are replete with the heroes from filipino history. One other concrete proof is the documents and periodicals in the Philippines in spanish during that time. Surely, an educated native class which produced the likes of mabini and bonifacio would not have been able to avail of liberal ideas in spanish if they have never been taught the spanish language. If you are referring to universal public education as a gauge in the spread or teaching of spanish then i would have to say you are making statements in the absence of its correct historical context. Universal public education did not come into existense even in the U.S and Europe until the mid to late 1800's. Only an elite few have access to education because the economy is agricultural based. It was the advent of the industrial revolution which really brought about universal public education as we know it. Last, you make outlandish statements by saying that the spanish, and to paraphrase you, systematically and intentionally destroyed indigenous culture. Yet you offer no proof at all in the current state of the filipino nation. All the things sociologists and anthropologists know about the indigenous culture has been due to the spanish chroniclers. Without them there would have an absence or awareness of the indigenous to the current educated class in the philippines. The pre-hispanic script, oral traditions and daily rituals are known because of the spanish language. Now why would the spanish record this indigenous culture if their intent is to destroy it. If you are talking about the hispanicity of filipino culture i would have to say, so what. that is the consequence of cultural interaction. Your statement is misleading because the truth is that indigenous culture did not disappear. It is grafted on and melded with hispanic attributes. For example, the fertility dance that is still being practiced today by pilgrims is a drawback of the indigenous past. Of course now, the saints and relics of the hispanic catholic church are the actors. But the religious practice and superstitions remain in essence indigenous. You cant blame my ancestors for willingly embracing hispanic practices. Least of all the spanish themselves. The natives especially those who are commoners willingly abandoned aspects of indigenous rituals involved in anito worship. Because in the spanish catholic church at least they dont get to be buried alive with their local datu as customary whenever one kicks the bucket. In other words, the important element that's missing in the psyche of the filipino nation today is due to the ignorance of the spanish language.

bankaw itomon

Josepepe

August 7th, 2006, 08:31 AM

True, you can learn the Philippine history in your native Bisaya. There is nothing wrong with that. To understand why the filipinos are like how they are right now. But does it have to be advocating the teaching of the Spanish language and re-imposed the learning of the spanish language all over again? Heck, like the history itself that was posted posted before in this thread, the spaniards themselves deprived the filipino natives to learn the language of the elit which is the Spanish language. During the spanish era, only 10% speaks the language, before the American colonization it dwindled to only 6%, after that it slowly disappeared since most of the Spaniards and the mestisos moved to Spain, Europe and North America up until the Marcos Era who is an Ilocano and whose wife is Waray didn't even advocate the use of Spanish in the Philippine language nor change the Philippine national language to Ilocano or Warray for their own benefit instead, Tagalog and english were more encouraged they were not a tagalog even. So, the problem there are with the visiyans who has to be overly opinionated about the tagalogs.

that the spanish deprived the filipino nation of learning spanish is an incorrect statement. the difference between las filipinas and her hispanic sisters vis-a-vis the spanish language is the unexpected event which interrupted its natural course in history.

bankaw itomon

DonQui

August 7th, 2006, 08:38 AM

North America? you only meant the US right and not includes Canada?

Spanish language is not necessarily a prefered foreign language in America, it just happened that most Spanish native speaks don't want to learn and would not try to speak english even while in the US. There are many of them who doesn't even want to have a better education. If it is the prefered language for the nurses to learn, they might as well learn chinese , vietnamese and so forth as the spanish people aren't the only immigrants that constitute the minority in America.
What an incredibly arrogant, ignorant, and frankly incorrect statement.

If anything, after successive generations, many descendants from Latin American countries, like Chinese, German, Italian, or Filipino immigrants, do not speak the native language. It is a classic three-generation effect where it takes about three generations to go from mono-lingual maternal language to mono-lingual new language. As Spanish-speaking immigrants are the most common immigrants right now, it takes a while to experience this phenomenon. However, among older communities such as my Puerto Rican community, it has taken place to the point that as much as I would like to perfect my Spanish, it will ALWAYS be to me a FOREIGN language, as my NATIVE language is English.

So, before you spout stereotypes, get a clue. Because there are plenty of Russians/Chinese/other groups that also form tight knit communities with people not learning English in the US.

And to further illustrate the point, let's look at Canada:

No perdido en la traducción
Erica Zelfand

TZIGANE

The market for translation is, to put it simply, exploding — growing at a rate of 15 to 20 percent per year. "There is a growing need internationally to be able to translate in more than two languages," explains James Archibald, director of McGill's Department of Translation Studies. In response to the growing popularity of Spanish as a third language in Quebec as well as the desire of Canadian translators to be more competitive internationally, McGill is launching a new program in Spanish translation.

According to the Language Industry Association of Canada, the country is among the top suppliers of language services in the world, but supply isn't meeting demand. Although Canada needs about 1,000 new translators a year, universities produce only 300 to 400. "As a result," explains Archibald, "there is a lot of out-sourcing and recruiting abroad. Unless we can get people into the market and working properly here, I don't think that the problem is going to get solved."

The choice of Spanish as the third language is no coincidence. "Quebec is doing a lot of business with Latin America," says Archibald, and Spanish speakers also comprise the largest ethnocultural community in Quebec. Therefore, for those students who plan on travelling abroad after graduation, McGill's new program "increases [their] mobility, not only locally but nationally as well," explains Archibald.

The program, which will begin this September, is offered both at the graduate and undergraduate levels and will be as competitive as the field, requiring an entrance examination in addition to a formal application (due June 1).

Archibald also stresses that translation is important from a cultural viewpoint. The field entails not only writing, but also communicating and engaging in an inter-cultural explosion. "It's not a monk sitting in a cell translating psalms: it's a person out there engaging. It's a real social, cultural, political and economic situation," says Archibald.

http://www.mcgill.ca/reporter/38/18/translators/

Sad when other territories of other countries that did not experience a lick of encounter with the Panhispanic culture show more interest in Spanish.....:no:

Josepepe

August 7th, 2006, 08:49 AM

Cinco de Mayo and St Patrick aren't really given much importance as recognizing the heritage here in America, it was just an excuse to drink, party and pick up women or women pick up men for fun to satisfy the lebido..LOL

Both are important aspects of american heritage. They are one of the visible characters of a great immigrant nation called the United States. Anglos are not the only ones responsible for building the country. Mexicans and the Irish are Americans too. Now, what better tribute is there to be an american when cinco de mayo and st patrick's day have become part of that great cultural mainstream.

bankaw itomon

Lili

August 7th, 2006, 09:08 AM

An oracle told me the solution to the conundrum on national unity through Filipino language. Adopt the Pikachu Language!

- Bangkay Pokemon (you know who you are)

Translation:

pi chuuuu kachu pi kaa Pika-pika pi Chu Pi-piikachu pi Pi-kaaa-chu Kachu pikachu Pika-pika Pi-kaaa-chu. pikaa Chu pika-pika Pi-kaaa-chu!

- pikachu pika-pika (pi-i piii kaa chu pii)

Hey don't shoot the messenger! :nocrook:

Here is the Pikachizer translator. :D http://pikachize.eye-of-newt.com/

Lili

August 7th, 2006, 09:11 AM

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/ECdoesit/pikaSSC.jpg

DonQui

August 7th, 2006, 09:19 AM

:rofl:

Josepepe

August 7th, 2006, 09:28 AM

Not necessarily, the filipinos still practice catholism and the culture passed on from history from their forefather right? Then it's their way of life it will linger on, they follow what their parents taught them all throughout these years.

Like from an article before, during the Spanish era, only 10% of the Philippine populations speaks spanish, only the elite, mestisos and the well educated speaks the language, the indos were prohibited as much as possible to learn it Why? because the spaniards doesn't want the natives to learn so they can eslave them and the poor natives won't even have the clue. Just lucky that there are filipinos who happen to be mestisos openned their eyes suh as Rizal and many others. It's probably the reason that there are many filipinos who lives overseas deny or even say they are half filipino only because, in the earlier years they their ancestors were made to think and feel that the native filipinos are less of a person unless they have a real spanish blood in their veins.

Just because the old birth certificates of their great grand parents were in spanish, it means, they were spanish also. It just happen that the system of recording birth and since the spanish run the country for years together with their oppressing treatments to the natives. It's just part of their way to control the natives.

Mrs DieselJock

only those with a yanki ingrained mentality can write a post like this one because everything has to do with race. when filipinos say they are half this or half that it doesnt mean bloodline but their personal cultural backgrounds because of ancestry or history.

bankaw itomon

Josepepe

August 7th, 2006, 09:37 AM

overtureph

August 7th, 2006, 11:52 AM

Novel prizes
PENMAN By Butch Dalisay
The Philippine STAR 08/07/2006

An interesting pocket war – if it’s that, at all – broke out last week in our little corner of the digital universe, the one devoted to all things Apple and Macintosh (www.philmug.ph). At issue was a palpably and oddly pre-electronic but still undeniably geeky subject: the matter of minding one’s language and grammar in posting comments and messages online.

To sum up the situation, one reader remarked on the manifest deterioration of our English language skills in the forum discussions he was reading, and wondered if he was right in feeling (and, so far, resisting) the urge to wade in and fix those egregious errors. Some people responded that they wouldn’t mind being corrected – as long as it was done tactfully. Yet others took the other extreme, rejecting any such intervention as being contrary to the Web’s very spirit of spontaneity – grammatical warts and all. Inevitably someone just had to bring in the whole brontosaurian issue of which language to use: "Mag-Pilipino na lang kasi tayo!"

That provoked even testier responses about the Internet, elitism, and democratic discourse, punctuated by tiny shrieks (guess who from) on behalf of clarity and common sense. When last I looked, people were babbling (no offense, folks; the word goes back to the Tower of Babel) in Spanish and Capampangan, proving more than ever the need for some reasonably common tongue, and at that point – having given everyone their literal say to the point of exhaustion (1,509 views and 64 comments) – the moderators sensibly closed the thread to allow the agitated masses to get on with their lives.

I was surprised and sometimes disturbed but not unhappy that this discussion took place. On the one hand, it told me that people still cared about the quality of language (whatever language) and about the importance of coming across as clearly as possible to others – and not just people within one’s closed circle, but to faceless crowds across that great ocean of the World Wide Web. On the other hand, it also made me think about the limits of our linguistic tolerance – about how far we can or should stretch them in the name of generally being nice to all God’s children.

As a professional editor – meaning, someone who makes a living from pouncing on dangling modifiers and sorting out who’s from whom’s – I have to admit to an old urge to stamp on and stamp out grammatical and mechanical errors like they were malignant forms of interplanetary vermin. If doing that sounds like fun to you, then I’d be very much amused, indeed, in this country of ours where – as I’ve often remarked in this corner – the fast-food places all compel you with big signs to "demand for a receipt" and even teachers routinely announce that matters have been "taken cared of."

As a professor of English, I suppose I could write an essay or two about how every such error eats away at the very foundations of civilization, chip by precious chip, and about how vital it is to draw the line, hold the fort, man the guns, and cut the salami (hmmm, one of these things is not like the others). That’s what hordes of English and grammar teachers have done all these years – uphold standards they inherited from their own teachers (often without even knowing why). Today, they can join the chorus of jeremiahs lamenting the decline of English, not so much because of the lost grandeur of the language, but because good English means cold cash in this age of the call center. (I’m willing to bet my retirement pension that if, by some quirk of fate, the American market suddenly became Taglish-speaking, we’d all be rushing our kids and unemployed cousins to the nearest review center to learn proper Taglish.)

I’m not about to quarrel with English’s utilitarian charms, which I’ve dipped into myself for my sustenance, and never mind if the politicians who espouse them often do so in language that provides its own most compelling reason for a National Day of Protest Against Atrocious English. (I particularly remember sitting in the Batasan gallery one evening and listening to an impassioned congressman taking up the cudgels for "the youngs, the youngs of this country!")

But I’d rather hasten to remind people – as I did in that Mac users‘ forum – that the first and most important function of language is communication, and in communication, whatever works, works, whether it be English, Filipino, Taglish, Romblomanon, Sanskrit, or demotic Greek.

If your English is Pepe-and-Pilar simple but basically clear, that’s no problem; if you commit a spelling error or two in the course of dashing off a quick paragraph about the speed with which the new Intel Macs run Windows (but why should you?), that’s no big deal, either. If you’re chatting on Yahoo Messenger and slide into the occasional "u" and "gnyt," I don’t suppose the sky will fall.

But if your English is so, uhm, quaint that it gets in the way of being understood in the way you want to be understood, then, Houston, we have a problem. I remembered this the other day when I peeked into CQCounter to check on who was checking on me (I know, another timewaster I can ill afford, but bloggers will recognize and understand this strange compulsion.) There was this digital trail of some poor soul searching Yahoo for a "Filipino scientist who won novel prizes." Why on earth that search would lead to my blog, I have no idea (I did the same search, and sure enough "Pinoy Penman" was Item No. 20); but I could imagine the searcher’s greater perplexity at finding nothing that even came close to a Pinoy version of Richard Feynman or Linus Pauling. But then of course maybe he or she meant what he or she meant – truly novel prizes, as in a year’s supply of tahong, a trip to Bukidnon in a goat-drawn chariot, two weeks with GMA (and that would just be second prize, the first prize being one week with GMA).

In other words, dear boys and girls, relax and enjoy the technology. If things get so bad they can’t be understood, then that’s the time the mods (who, we can only hope, know better) should step in and fix things, with a light and painless touch. Playing grammar police on the Web will be like being a fireman at a pyromaniacs’ annual convention. For those of us seriously contemplating a career in editing and proofreading, I suggest a one-semester internship on the floor of the House of Representatives, just to make sure that you have the skill, the will, and the sense of humor to take all the slings and arrows of outrageous grammar that the profession has to offer.

An awareness of good and better language is always welcome – a fine and urbane touch, like a knowledge of good wines (or better yet, an appreciation of the power of words to reshape reality); but the plain truth is, most people can live without it, and as the cliché goes, it’s the thought that counts. Take care of that thought, and find the best (read: often the simplest and clearest) words to put it in; but never let the fear of making a mistake shut you up. As you get older and with more practice (oops, I think I just put on my professorial cap), you’ll learn (1) not to speak too soon, and (2) to say something sensible, or at least something funny, when you open your mouth.

As will inevitably happen when you spend too many of your waking hours mulling over the merits or otherwise of Intel processors and lossless compression, you’re bound to make a mistake in saying what you mean – and someone equally insomniac is bound to catch you making it. And then someone else is bound to turn your mistake into an issue, which may not be all that bad, if I can turn it into a column-piece like this one.

* * *

And lest I forget, let me invite you to tonight’s special staging of a Filipino innovation on a classic Japanese theater form. To celebrate 50 years of friendship between the Philippines and Japan, the University of the Philippines Center for International Studies is presenting "Okina/Ang Paglalakbay ni Sisa" at the UP Theater at 7 p.m.

Okina, the oldest prototype of Noh, consists of dances designed to win the help of the gods in obtaining peace and prosperity in the land and long life for the people. "Ang Paglalakbay ni Sisa: Isang Noh" sa Laguna was written in Japan in 1973 by Amelia Lapeña Bonifacio, now university professor of UP Diliman. This is Lapena-Bonifacio’s re-interpretation as a Noh play of Jose Rizal’s "Sisa" character from the novel Noli Me Tangere. "Borrowing from the Noh allowed Lapeña-Bonifacio to make possible what was impossible in Rizal’s novel," the program notes say. "By making Sisa come back from the dead to re-tell her story, her ghost is able to speak out and confront her sons’ aggressor, Padre Salvi."

Six Noh masters will lead the performance, including Dr. Naohiko Umewaka, associate professor of the Shizuoka University of Art and Culture and Japan Foundation visiting professor for Japan Studies of the UPCIS. Matinee performances will be held at 3 p.m. on Aug. 12 and 13.

* * *
E-mail me at penmanila@yahoo.com and visit my blog at http://homepage.mac.com/jdalisay/blog/MyBlog.html

http://philstar.com/philstar/lifestyle200608070501.htm

overtureph

August 7th, 2006, 11:55 AM

Cinco de Mayo and St Patrick aren't really given much importance as recognizing the heritage here in America, it was just an excuse to drink, party and pick up women or women pick up men for fun to satisfy the lebido..LOL

If it isn't that important, then why celebrate or commemorate it? I mean there's still Mardi Gras. I'm sorry but I think what you posted was a shallow argument.

overtureph

August 7th, 2006, 12:00 PM

Yes, but then he indicated also that the lingua the franca in America is english and stressed the importance of learning english when acquiring US Citizenship.

I agree with you here but my point was he probably thought that Spanish is an important language and is a part of American heritage and might play a role in the future. I could be wrong though with my assumption.

overtureph

August 7th, 2006, 12:11 PM

driftwood

August 7th, 2006, 10:06 PM

About the Filipino language from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_language

Again, I'm not in a position to vouch for the veracity of the article in its entirety.

However, it's noteworthy that Article XIV, Section 6 of the 1987 Constitution states: "The national language of the Philippines is Filipino. As it evolves, it shall be further developed and enriched on the basis of existing Philippine and other languages." The Filipino language, as it currently stands, may be largely based on Tagalog, but it's still evolving. I'm optimistic that cebuano, ilocano, pampango words, etc. will eventually get incorporated into it (while of course, preserving the use of those languages in their respective regions) and that pinoys everywhere will more readily accept it.

Lili

August 7th, 2006, 10:28 PM

^^ In addition, and this is nothing personal, I find you inappropriate and offensive. :jk:

bangkay pokemon :rofl:

driftwood

August 7th, 2006, 10:39 PM

^^ You wound me deeplili... pika-pika-pika-chu!!! :lol:

xDieselJockx

August 8th, 2006, 01:02 AM

If it isn't that important, then why celebrate or commemorate it? I mean there's still Mardi Gras. I'm sorry but I think what you posted was a shallow argument.

If it is an important part of the US heritage, why is it not public non-working holiday in national government across the US just like How americans observes Rev Jessie Jackson day? Or? Labor day? Or? Thanks giving? yadah yedh yadah.

Does offices across the US observe all these? Mardi Gras is only confined mostly in New Orleans and selected places or cities in the US, it's not being observed as the national holiday. Why? it's just a reason to party, get drunk til dawn, women and men flashing their private parts and so on. You yourself find it shallow. It's not being shallow. It's just the truth and I apologized if my being straight forward is offending you. Sometimes when someone tells the truth, others take it wrongly, it's either they are misled or can't handle the truth....

xDieselJockx

August 8th, 2006, 01:29 AM

What an incredibly arrogant, ignorant, and frankly incorrect statement.

If anything, after successive generations, many descendants from Latin American countries, like Chinese, German, Italian, or Filipino immigrants, do not speak the native language. It is a classic three-generation effect where it takes about three generations to go from mono-lingual maternal language to mono-lingual new language. As Spanish-speaking immigrants are the most common immigrants right now, it takes a while to experience this phenomenon. However, among older communities such as my Puerto Rican community, it has taken place to the point that as much as I would like to perfect my Spanish, it will ALWAYS be to me a FOREIGN language, as my NATIVE language is English.

So, before you spout stereotypes, get a clue. Because there are plenty of Russians/Chinese/other groups that also form tight knit communities with people not learning English in the US.

And to further illustrate the point, let's look at Canada:

http://www.mcgill.ca/reporter/38/18/translators/

Sad when other territories of other countries that did not experience a lick of encounter with the Panhispanic culture show more interest in Spanish.....:no:

Well, you pointed out Quebec area, They do alot of business in europe including Spain. Quebec has been for years trying to secede from Ottawa for years, so, you cannot necessarily use it to represent the whole canada, as a matter of fact, the majority of their immigrants are the chinese and vietnamese, so somehow your example is limited to the French Canadian area whom as much as possible doesn't wanna have to do with Ottawa parliment.

What stereotyping were you talking about my latin american brother? My background tells all, I don't know if you've seen the other thread but I can't stereotype against my own kind, but instead, I see the cancer that's been plaguing that same member of the society. That's why I made myself better and tries to help others of my own kind.

xDieselJockx

August 8th, 2006, 01:38 AM

I never knew that there is such a strong anti-Spanish sentiment from some of the forumers here.

Probably a very wrong assumption because if you look back in previous pages and the preceeding threads, everybody were saying it's okay to re-introduce the spanish language in the Philippine school, but what's the need to reimpose it again on the people when what the Philippines have right now is working. The only thing that needs to be done in the Philippines is help the country change the political atmosphere in that country and if the people can change it's attitude, it will move the country forward. That's not anti-spanish sentiment. It's called being wise and practical. For Christ sake, thousands of people are starvign and immigrating in other countries, the Philippines is losing it's own manpower and professionals, you all worry about the spanish language which even in the earlier years didnt' help the country move forward and the Philippine heroes rejected being under Spanish colonialism, alot of native filipinos were treated a 3rd class citizens by not providing enough educations and even deprived of teaching the spanish languiage unless they have some spanish blood in them. Wake up, some people just have a serious identity crisis.

Lili

August 8th, 2006, 01:41 AM

^^ I need to know now if that is you or Mrs. Dieseljock talking.

xDieselJockx

August 8th, 2006, 02:27 AM

and your point is what?

bankaw itomon

Problem here is if I will express my own opinion, the truth and be honest about it. I get cruzified. But I will say it anyway. My point is, the problem lies within you, if not the whole visayan nation which I doubt. The other regionalistic groups in the Philippines does not express or have the same resentments towards the tagalogs as much as some visiyans and I dunno maybe hilagaynon/Illongos. I feel it's an over reaction to the notions where the latter thinks that the tagalogs have a superiority complex.

The Philippine history has since changed ever since Rizal and the likes decided to take a move to reject the Spanish colonization because they felt the oppression of the Spaniards towards the filipino natives, the Spaniards gathered the whole island and tried to create it as one only take advantage of its people which they literally raped the natives of their own dignity.Where is the culture there? If it is the right thing for the filipinos at the time why did they fight the Spaniards to gain freedom?Otherwise, these national heroes that you all now revered would have not revolted in the first place. Why embrace it now?

Askal82

August 8th, 2006, 02:35 AM

^^ You wound me deeplili... pika-pika-pika-chu!!! :lol:

^^ I choose you pikachu!! Use your thunderbolt attack! The spear is made of graphite which is a good conductor of electricity!

Lili

August 8th, 2006, 02:43 AM

^^ I think now we are talking our own language that only we understand. ;)

^^ pi Pikapi chu chu pi-i pika-pika chu pi-i Pika-pika pika pipi pi chuuu-chuuu. ;)

Askal82

August 8th, 2006, 02:52 AM

They're cute too. I like that electically charged rodent. :lol:

Louman

August 8th, 2006, 05:21 AM

overtureph

August 8th, 2006, 07:02 AM

If it is an important part of the US heritage, why is it not public non-working holiday in national government across the US just like How americans observes Rev Jessie Jackson day? Or? Labor day? Or? Thanks giving? yadah yedh yadah.

Does offices across the US observe all these? Mardi Gras is only confined mostly in New Orleans and selected places or cities in the US, it's not being observed as the national holiday. Why? it's just a reason to party, get drunk til dawn, women and men flashing their private parts and so on. You yourself find it shallow. It's not being shallow. It's just the truth and I apologized if my being straight forward is offending you. Sometimes when someone tells the truth, others take it wrongly, it's either they are misled or can't handle the truth....

I guess you misread my postings and you misconstrued what I'm trying to say. Reading between the lines may help. Telling the truth is important. Being ill-mannered is not. And if I may offer this piece of unsolicited advice, he who generalizes, usually lies.

I thank you. Bow.

overtureph

August 8th, 2006, 07:04 AM

overtureph

August 8th, 2006, 07:05 AM

Is graphite a good electric conductor? What do you call people who speaks the pika-chu language? Are interprters available?

overtureph

August 8th, 2006, 07:28 AM

Probably a very wrong assumption because if you look back in previous pages and the preceeding threads, everybody were saying it's okay to re-introduce the spanish language in the Philippine school, but what's the need to reimpose it again on the people when what the Philippines have right now is working. The only thing that needs to be done in the Philippines is help the country change the political atmosphere in that country and if the people can change it's attitude, it will move the country forward. That's not anti-spanish sentiment. It's called being wise and practical. For Christ sake, thousands of people are starvign and immigrating in other countries, the Philippines is losing it's own manpower and professionals, you all worry about the spanish language which even in the earlier years didnt' help the country move forward and the Philippine heroes rejected being under Spanish colonialism, alot of native filipinos were treated a 3rd class citizens by not providing enough educations and even deprived of teaching the spanish languiage unless they have some spanish blood in them. Wake up, some people just have a serious identity crisis.

You know what, Louman is right. We did stray from the topic. I made my comments or posted my thoughts here, because of the title of the thread. If I'm not mistaken, the different concerns you mentioned have threads or discussion boards of their own. And speaking of concern, thank you for your concern about the Philippines.

And it was just my observation, thats why I made this statement- "I never knew that there is such a strong anti-Spanish sentiment from some of the forumers here." It's a good thing some of you made clarifications about this.

overtureph

August 8th, 2006, 07:31 AM

I hope my Spanish is correct - Cuentas claras, para conservan la amistad.

Josepepe

August 8th, 2006, 07:49 AM

Hey, you two stay on topic. Haha. Then again, it's more interesting than converting the whole nation into spanish speakers. I just realized with the logic these pro-spanish people are throwing around, it means Filipino Muslims, especially those who are Muslim by birth and who have ancestors fighting and resisting the spanish are not Filipino. Well, I'd like for them to go to the Quiapo Mosque or parts of ARMM and tell them, knowing their ancestor's experience with the spaniards, that they should speak spanish out of National Unity. Inshallah! hahaha. What about non-Muslim tribes who also resisted or were lucky enough to have had little encounters with the spaniards, who have little or no trace of spanish influence in their culture like the Tbolis? I guess they're not Filipino either. Does more spanish blood or culture make you more Filipino? Or does not having it at all make you an outsider in your own country?

frankly i find the interjection of bankay pokemon by threaders spoofing my ethnic name insulting. but then again i am not the least surprised because that is what i have been subjected to growing up in the homeland. then they wonder why secessionist feelings are simmering beneath the surface among non-tagalized nations. it shows how dumb their actions can be. but this is not why i am writing this post. i am here to reply to what you are alluding with what i perceived is an anti-hispanic bias behind that post of yours. The t' bolis and other non-hispanized minorities are in the framework of the filipino nation. this is because a filipino is also a political identity transcending race, color and creed. it is in the current constitution as i recall. it is only when cultural minorities are being subjected to sociocultural engineering practices to conform to a particular ethnolinguistic group's notion on what a filipino is that it becomes a problem. as for the lowland christians which is what constitute a majority of filipinos in population and cultural framework. you can deny and pretend that hispanization is not being "authentic" filipino and that's why you resist the component of hispanization. but its not going to change the truth nor reverse the outcome of spanish colonial history. learning the spanish language by all filipinos is not conversion. there is no denial of the indigenous part. nor will it turn filipinos into spaniards. it is merely taking stock of an important heritage that makes up a significant part of that filipino identity in order for it to survive. in short, despite the hispanic component in the culture of lowland christians in the Philippines. the very idea of filipino is to include rather than exclude. so says the malolos constitution which is the written foundation of the filipino republic.

bankaw itomon

Askal82

August 8th, 2006, 07:55 AM

Is graphite a good electric conductor? What do you call people who speaks the pika-chu language? Are interprters available?

Yes graphite is a good electrical conductor. :D
Here is the site that can translate your words into Pikachu language:

http://pikachize.eye-of-newt.com/

Josepepe

August 8th, 2006, 08:00 AM

Problem here is if I will express my own opinion, the truth and be honest about it. I get cruzified. But I will say it anyway. My point is, the problem lies within you, if not the whole visayan nation which I doubt. The other regionalistic groups in the Philippines does not express or have the same resentments towards the tagalogs as much as some visiyans and I dunno maybe hilagaynon/Illongos. I feel it's an over reaction to the notions where the latter thinks that the tagalogs have a superiority complex.

The Philippine history has since changed ever since Rizal and the likes decided to take a move to reject the Spanish colonization because they felt the oppression of the Spaniards towards the filipino natives, the Spaniards gathered the whole island and tried to create it as one only take advantage of its people which they literally raped the natives of their own dignity.Where is the culture there? If it is the right thing for the filipinos at the time why did they fight the Spaniards to gain freedom?Otherwise, these national heroes that you all now revered would have not revolted in the first place. Why embrace it now?

filipino history did not change one bit. not unless you have a time machine that could make the tampering of historical events possible. the heroes revolted not because tney were anti-hispanic. or anti-spanish. they merely wanted to govern themselves. they did it without pretending to reject their hispanic i.e mestizaje upbringing or posture as a fundamentalist in the concocted religion of "indigenous".

bankaw itomon

overtureph

August 8th, 2006, 08:15 AM

I hope we do not get personal here. I think this thread is for an exchange of opinions, beliefs and a sharing of knowledge. Peace!

Mond87

August 8th, 2006, 09:00 AM

jbkayaker12

August 8th, 2006, 09:15 AM

Who said anything about bending backwards? If anything, I think the American government and it's policies has probably got one of the strongest resolve there is. What I admire from them is the respect and the rights given to immigrants who value their heritage. Remember the Spanish version of the Star Spangled Banner, was it officially sanctioned? I think not. So who's bending backward?

Election paraphernalia amongst other things are printed in Spanish, many forms be it federal and state are being translated to Spanish at the expense of the taxpayers simply because a sector of society stubbornly refuses to learn the English language.

jbkayaker12

August 8th, 2006, 09:59 AM

Myths have a way of rearing its ugly head over and over again. First, the important thing that's missing in the philippines to become a filipino nation without amnesia and selective historical memories is the absence of the spanish language. Without it we are not a filipino nation but a bad of copy of the tagalog nation instead. Second, you are wrong about the spanish language not having been taught to the natives. The products of that spanish language education are replete with the heroes from filipino history. One other concrete proof is the documents and periodicals in the Philippines in spanish during that time. Surely, an educated native class which produced the likes of mabini and bonifacio would not have been able to avail of liberal ideas in spanish if they have never been taught the spanish language. If you are referring to universal public education as a gauge in the spread or teaching of spanish then i would have to say you are making statements in the absence of its correct historical context. Universal public education did not come into existense even in the U.S and Europe until the mid to late 1800's. Only an elite few have access to education because the economy is agricultural based. It was the advent of the industrial revolution which really brought about universal public education as we know it. Last, you make outlandish statements by saying that the spanish, and to paraphrase you, systematically and intentionally destroyed indigenous culture. Yet you offer no proof at all in the current state of the filipino nation. All the things sociologists and anthropologists know about the indigenous culture has been due to the spanish chroniclers. Without them there would have an absence or awareness of the indigenous to the current educated class in the philippines. The pre-hispanic script, oral traditions and daily rituals are known because of the spanish language. Now why would the spanish record this indigenous culture if their intent is to destroy it. If you are talking about the hispanicity of filipino culture i would have to say, so what. that is the consequence of cultural interaction. Your statement is misleading because the truth is that indigenous culture did not disappear. It is grafted on and melded with hispanic attributes. For example, the fertility dance that is still being practiced today by pilgrims is a drawback of the indigenous past. Of course now, the saints and relics of the hispanic catholic church are the actors. But the religious practice and superstitions remain in essence indigenous. You cant blame my ancestors for willingly embracing hispanic practices. Least of all the spanish themselves. The natives especially those who are commoners willingly abandoned aspects of indigenous rituals involved in anito worship. Because in the spanish catholic church at least they dont get to be buried alive with their local datu as customary whenever one kicks the bucket. In other words, the important element that's missing in the psyche of the filipino nation today is due to the ignorance of the spanish language.

bankaw itomon

The Spaniards as part of their colonization of the islands had to destroy artifacts, prohibit the locals on their rituals and stamped out beliefs which were contradictory to Catholicism. This way they can truly Christianized the natives. Part of the reason why the tribes of Northern Philippines to this day are able to practice their beliefs and rituals is the fact that Spaniards were not able to convert these tribes due to the inaccessibility of the highlands. Same with the Muslim tribes in southern Philipines, they've fought off Christianization and resisted the attempts of the colonizer which helped them retain their beliefs and rituals.

Spaniards have destroyed artifacts in Latin America in their attemp to Christianize the natives, why should the archipelago we now call the Philippines be any different.

Colonization in itself was a destruction of the natives way of life. Whether done through physical means or mentally, the Spaniards destroyed part of our culture. There is a big difference between a culture that evolved through time and a culture that was forced upon a group of people.

driftwood

August 8th, 2006, 12:24 PM

Paikot-ikot, paulit-ulit
Usapang pagkakulit-kulit
Pagtatalong walang humpay
Mayroon bang magtatagumpay?

Batu-bato sa langit
Tamaa'y h'wag magagalit
Ang piko'y matatalo
Mga mata'y mamumugto

Ito'y pawang pagpapatawa
Pampagaan ng kaluluwa
Halina't makisaya
Upang tayo'y magkaisa

Sa silakbo ng puso
Huwag sanang padadala
Ikaw ma'y tinutukso
Huwag sanang magambala

Huwag mo kaming salingin
Ng iyong poot na dinirimdim
Ipadala na lamang sa hangin
Isama sa iyong panalangin

Ang nakaraa'y lumipas na
Ang kasalukuya'y nagaganap pa
Ang kinabukasa'y nakasalalay
Sa ating mga gawa't kamay

bangkay pokemon

jbkayaker12

August 8th, 2006, 08:46 PM

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 12:09 AM

I hope we do not get personal here. I think this thread is for an exchange of opinions, beliefs and a sharing of knowledge. Peace!

It is already personal. I might have been using a sharp edge with regards to my arguments but its never pointed to a person or character. Rather it is the view expressed in the posts of the person that I rebutt with pointed wit. It seems to me that there are those who are unable to see the difference. but that's okay.

bankaw itomon

xDieselJockx

August 9th, 2006, 12:23 AM

I guess you misread my postings and you misconstrued what I'm trying to say. Reading between the lines may help. Telling the truth is important. Being ill-mannered is not. And if I may offer this piece of unsolicited advice, he who generalizes, usually lies.

I thank you. Bow.

I don't see anything ill-mannered to what I've expressed. It may have been too straight forward. I did not belittle anybody. Have I? Like I said, some people doesn't want to hear the truth and when one speaks his/her mind, he/she gets branded to be insolent, when it's not. Just like how some people get branded as ignorant when their opinions don't comform with what the other person or group is advocating such as in this thread. It feels like others seems to look others as stupid if they can't convince the other group to agree.

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 12:38 AM

Never forget what has happened in the past, history repeats itself.

If I may add the Chinese people settled our land with the intent of having trade with the locals. Chinese have been around longer than the Spaniards and their existence in the archipelago evolved through barter and trade with the locals and not so much on colonizing the land. Of course there were conflicts with the Chinese but that is only natural when different groups of people are in existence in a certain place and the tribal groups in Northern Philippines are no exception either.

the chinese did not settle in the archipelago nor was there ever sufficient and irrevocable evidence that their intent was to make pre-hispanic philippines their colony. this is current revisionism and a justificiation by those who see nothing wrong in creeping chinese neocolonialism. this is the reason for perpetuating the anti-hispanic bias which is part of the filipino identity. that's my opinion of course but i have every reason to conclude its true based on what i have observed from the ground up.

speaking of the past and from unearthed artifacts. the evidence pointed to chinese trade rather than settlement. that's the reason for all those vases and porcelain found in caves and beneath burial grounds of dead datus. if it was true that the chinese came to settle then surely the remains of their settlement and bones from a huge community would have been unearthed by now. yet, nothing of that sort was ever found. yes, there were chinese who jumped ship in order to escape the rigors of their life as seamen. however, they intermarried with the tribes and adapted to their ways. still they did not come in great numbers and in the end lost their "chinese" identity to the natives. that's a marked difference to what's happening today. the huge influx of both legal and illegal immigration by the chinese to the philippines is a phenomenon of the last three decades rather than pre-hispanic "history."

I agree about not forgetting history. although what you are alluding points to another direction. but i agree. filipinos should never forget the past and fight foreign invasion in the form of neocolonialism. be they white or chinese. or whatever.

bankaw itomon

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 01:01 AM

The Spaniards as part of their colonization of the islands had to destroy artifacts, prohibit the locals on their rituals and stamped out beliefs which were contradictory to Catholicism. This way they can truly Christianized the natives. Part of the reason why the tribes of Northern Philippines to this day are able to practice their beliefs and rituals is the fact that Spaniards were not able to convert these tribes due to the inaccessibility of the highlands. Same with the Muslim tribes in southern Philipines, they've fought off Christianization and resisted the attempts of the colonizer which helped them retain their beliefs and rituals.

Spaniards have destroyed artifacts in Latin America in their attemp to Christianize the natives, why should the archipelago we now call the Philippines be any different.

Colonization in itself was a destruction of the natives way of life. Whether done through physical means or mentally, the Spaniards destroyed part of our culture. There is a big difference between a culture that evolved through time and a culture that was forced upon a group of people.

there is a big difference when untruths are being passed on as historical facts. I know it seems hard to believe but christianization in the philippines did not happen because of the sword. the people themselves cooperated with legazpi and the spaniards. and why shouldnt they. to the commoners, aspects of their way of life in the new religion is better than becoming fodder for human sacrifice. sure there were initial resistance in some areas. but in the end they lost because the people themselves are not with them.there's also no relevance to what happened to latin america vis-a-vis pre-hispanic philippines. there was no great civilization in the philippines similar to the mayans and the incas. there was no theocratic nation state to eradicate. i hope you understand this by now. but maybe not. because judging from your views in your previous post it seems that to you chinese colonization is better than the spanish one. that's inconsistency. at least the spanish made a country and inadvertently the beginnings of an independent nation state. but i see where your biased views are headed and why.

btw. the indigenous customs did not disappear. you just dont want to recognize it because its part and parcel of the filipino identity. which are the hispanic attributes melded with the native ones. without it there's no filipino as i have often repeated. this is why all this talk is heading nowhere. a lot of people are scared out of their comfort zones because acknowledging what's really filipino is the start of an independent mind. a step to true liberation.

bankaw itomon

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 01:06 AM

I don't know why we should make Spanish as the nat'l language... only a very small portion of the philippines' total population can speak spanish... However, i agree that spanish language should be taught in schools once again. it is the 2nd most common language in the world...

why not? we are not homogenous. we have never been one. our country owe part of its identity to the spanish language.

bankaw itomon

Lili

August 9th, 2006, 01:10 AM

frankly i find the interjection of bankay pokemon by threaders spoofing my ethnic name insulting. but then again i am not the least surprised because that is what i have been subjected to growing up in the homeland. then they wonder why secessionist feelings are simmering beneath the surface among non-tagalized nations.

bankaw itomon

Pardon me Josepepe, I didn't mean to insult or ridicule you personally.
It was an honest play on words and we didn't realize it was an ethnic name. We thought it was a nom de plume. Being roasted or spoofed is actually an honor bestowed only to those who are considered big enough to be targets. And those who can take it with tongue-in-cheek humor.

It means that your views are being noticed and read. Our interjections were meant to be outrageous and incongruous. We just wanted to inject some humor into this very serious, long-winded and circuitous exchange. Pardon us if it had to be at the expense of your nom de plume. Aside from that, there is nothing there targetted at your person. Peace. :nocrook:

xDieselJockx

August 9th, 2006, 01:34 AM

filipino history did not change one bit. not unless you have a time machine that could make the tampering of historical events possible. the heroes revolted not because tney were anti-hispanic. or anti-spanish. they merely wanted to govern themselves. they did it without pretending to reject their hispanic i.e mestizaje upbringing or posture as a fundamentalist in the concocted religion of "indigenous".

bankaw itomon

I read some of the links you posted and the others that posted theirs, I read more about the history and it seems like the Spaniards mistreated the natives. It was also true that only 10% of the natives speaks the Spanish language, only the Spaniards and the Spanish mestisoz are allowed to have education. Doesn't the Spanish friars called the natives as "indios" which basically means "natives" but when they say it, it has a descending attitude towards them? Yes, you are right, the early filipinos together with the national heroes fought the Spaniards with the aim of self-governance of their own land, but what triggers all these? It's the oppressive treatment and the abuses of the Spaniards towards the natives. I understand you might say they are not anti-hispanic or anti-spanish, but what constitute the oppressors? it's the Spaniards.. The filipino people has to make use of what is the remnants of what was imposed to them, pretty much by force and at the same time resists any of the remnants that might remind the spanish oppressions. They do not have much choice back then but after that the filipinos thrived and rediscovered themselves.

Askal82

August 9th, 2006, 01:56 AM

jbkayaker12

August 9th, 2006, 03:08 AM

there is a big difference when untruths are being passed on as historical facts. I know it seems hard to believe but christianization in the philippines did not happen because of the sword. the people themselves cooperated with legazpi and the spaniards. and why shouldnt they. to the commoners, aspects of their way of life in the new religion is better than becoming fodder for human sacrifice. sure there were initial resistance in some areas. but in the end they lost because the people themselves are not with them.there's also no relevance to what happened to latin america vis-a-vis pre-hispanic philippines. there was no great civilization in the philippines similar to the mayans and the incas. there was no theocratic nation state to eradicate. i hope you understand this by now. but maybe not. because judging from your views in your previous post it seems that to you chinese colonization is better than the spanish one. that's inconsistency. at least the spanish made a country and inadvertently the beginnings of an independent nation state. but i see where your biased views are headed and why.

btw. the indigenous customs did not disappear. you just dont want to recognize it because its part and parcel of the filipino identity. which are the hispanic attributes melded with the native ones. without it there's no filipino as i have often repeated. this is why all this talk is heading nowhere. a lot of people are scared out of their comfort zones because acknowledging what's really filipino is the start of an independent mind. a step to true liberation.

bankaw itomon

If you honestly think that we have no great civilization before the arrival of the Spaniards then you bought into what the Spaniards thought of doing so, to be subservient to the colonizers. We've been trading with the Chinese and Japanese for hundreds of years long before the first hispanic landed on our archipelago. Our scripts have been around for a long time and the Spaniards even admitted that all sectors of society can communicate well back then, the reason behind their interest in learning our scripts. The Spaniards had to learn our scripts, our language, for them to be able to colonized and christianized the natives.

The Chinese people have been living on our shores for a lot longer than the Spanish colonization of our islands and yet they never imposed their culture their culture on us. It evolved between the natives and the Chinese by way of trade and barter between two different cultures.

Mond87

August 9th, 2006, 04:15 AM

why not? we are not homogenous. we have never been one. our country owe part of its identity to the spanish language.

bankaw itomon

But I prefer it to be just part of the college curricula. As the nat'l language? hell no! We've been there before and we've had many problems that we encountered. Is there such thing as a person wanting to live in a gruel past?

Mond87

August 9th, 2006, 04:18 AM

bitoy

August 9th, 2006, 06:33 AM

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 07:35 AM

One way or another you look at the history, the Spaniards did attempt to eradicate the cultural icons, symbols or artefacts of the civilization they conquered, considered as heathens in the name of triple G's (God, Gold and Glory). The accounts of the early locals how they were treated by their colonial masters still hold some grain of truth in it. No matter how much sugarcoating has been done to hide them by pretending that it didn't exist and is better civilization than the latter colonizers won't also alter the course of history.

i dont know what you mean by eradicating. you have to be clear what it means. let me just say that according to a filipino anthropologist that i know. the pre-hispanic inhabitants have been attracted more to the pageantry of the catholic rituals than being forced to convert. naturally, idolatry is anathema to the christians once the natives converted. its the same with other groups that converted to islam. their pre-islamic idols have become verboten because of the dominance of the new religion. so it is really naive to think about "eradication" without referring it to the context of its cultural and historical shift. as for your gold, god and glory explanation. it is a red herring and an excuse for revisionism. the study of history is complex and cannot be concluded with simplistic paradigms of black and white simply because the forces of history is not an interpretation of modern values. they live in a different world whose culture and concept of values are entirely different from yours. i think that you have been looking at the glass half full. the essence of filipino rituals remain indigenous but the form is different because of spanish factors. the legends of maria makiling or bernardo carpio for examples have a definite hispanic form. but the origin of its expression such as retribution or sense of justice is based on the spirits of nature inherited from pre-hispanic ancestors.

bankaw itomon

Askal82

August 9th, 2006, 07:40 AM

-dp-

Askal82

August 9th, 2006, 07:42 AM

i dont know what you mean by eradicating. you have to be clear what it means. let me just say that according to a filipino anthropologist that i know. the pre-hispanic inhabitants have been attracted more to the pageantry of the catholic rituals than being forced to convert. naturally, idolatry is anathema to the christians once the natives converted. its the same with other groups that converted to islam. their pre-islamic idols have become verboten because of the dominance of the new religion. so it is really naive to think about "eradication" without referring it to the context of its cultural and historical shift. as for your gold, god and glory explanation. it is a red herring and an excuse for revisionism. the study of history is complex and cannot be concluded with simplistic paradigms of black and white simply because the forces of history is not an interpretation of modern values. they live in a different world whose culture and concept of values are entirely different from yours. i think that you have been looking at the glass half full. the essence of filipino rituals remain indigenous but the form is different because of spanish factors. the legends of maria makiling or bernardo carpio for examples have a definite hispanic form. but the origin of its expression such as retribution or sense of justice is based on the spirits of nature inherited from pre-hispanic ancestors.

bankaw itomon

Like I said, no matter how much sugarcoating has been done to hide them by pretending that it didn't exist and is better civilization than the latter colonizers won't also alter the course of history nor change those facts.

In order to understand the cultural connection of Filipinos to its history, its much better if we look nothing further but historical facts not opinions that oh, Philippines is Hispanic or American or Malay or whatsoever in order for us to find the so called Filipino identity.

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 08:04 AM

If you honestly think that we have no great civilization before the arrival of the Spaniards then you bought into what the Spaniards thought of doing so, to be subservient to the colonizers. We've been trading with the Chinese and Japanese for hundreds of years long before the first hispanic landed on our archipelago. Our scripts have been around for a long time and the Spaniards even admitted that all sectors of society can communicate well back then, the reason behind their interest in learning our scripts. The Spaniards had to learn our scripts, our language, for them to be able to colonized and christianized the natives.

The Chinese people have been living on our shores for a lot longer than the Spanish colonization of our islands and yet they never imposed their culture their culture on us. It evolved between the natives and the Chinese by way of trade and barter between two different cultures.

its not what i think that matters. its the evidence on the ground that counts when great civilizations are being discussed. there's no evidence of a nation state or a complex civilization comparable to the mayas or incas of south america in the archipelago. there were no temples nor city states. what's evident were village cultures of 100 or more families or less affiliated as a kin group rather than a sophisticated ancient metropolis. the closest you can call to a state is in sulu whose budding bureaucracy showed promise. however, trading with the chinese or japanese is not proof of a complex civilization. this is just trade. as for your opinion that the chinese have been living on our shores to paraphrase you. it really is not an excuse to claim the whole country for them as you allude because they are also foreign interlopers who have no business being there. the spanish came and left a country. you have to put that in mind before you make a comparison. while the chinese doesnt have any right to a piece of filipino soil. regardless if they have been the first to show up before the spanish, portuguese or not. remember that my ancestors were there first.

bankaw itomon

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 08:11 AM

Like I said, no matter how much sugarcoating has been done to hide them by pretending that it didn't exist and is better civilization than the latter colonizers won't also alter the course of history nor change those facts.

In order to understand the cultural connection of Filipinos to its history, its much better if we look nothing further but historical facts not opinions that oh, Philippines is Hispanic or American or Malay or whatsoever in order for us to find the so called Filipino identity.

there is no sugar coating. i am telling it like it is. you cannot alter the course of past history because we are irrelevant to it. we cannot escape its consequences without lying to ourselves and the next generations. only the present and the future belongs to us. nothing has been hidden. you can verify it if you wish. you may not like it. but most of what i have given you are not my personal opinions.

bankaw itomon

Mond87

August 9th, 2006, 08:14 AM

ngayon pa lang, nag-aaway-away na tau... what more kung...

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 08:19 AM

But I prefer it to be just part of the college curricula. As the nat'l language? hell no! We've been there before and we've had many problems that we encountered. Is there such thing as a person wanting to live in a gruel past?

then let's stop pretending to be filipinos and form our own separate countries because spanish is from the "gruel past" to quote you.

bankaw itomon

Mond87

August 9th, 2006, 08:21 AM

then let's stop pretending to be filipinos and form our own separate countries because spanish is from the "gruel past" to quote you.

bankaw itomon

Pretending to be filipinos? separating countries? Dude, what are u talking about?!!!???

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 08:25 AM

Pretending to be filipinos? separating countries? Dude, what are u talking about?!!!???

read my posts.

bankaw itomon

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 08:28 AM

ngayon pa lang, nag-aaway-away na tau... what more kung...

i am not at war with anybody nor do i seek disunity. on the contrary, my advocacy for the return of spanish is my call for unity without abandoning my own ethnolinguistic identity.

bankaw itomon

Mond87

August 9th, 2006, 08:29 AM

read my posts.

bankaw itomon

whatever, i don't have time... bsta... y bring back the spanish language? It will further complicate our "settled" lives

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 08:36 AM

whatever, i don't have time... bsta... y bring back the spanish language? It will further complicate our "settled" lives

as i've said its not easy getting out of your comfort zones. it takes a revolutionary spirit to do that. but if i've made you to at least rethink about your current perceptions on what a filipino is then i have done my job.

bankaw itomon

Mond87

August 9th, 2006, 08:39 AM

as i've said its not easy getting out of your comfort zones. it takes a revolutionary spirit to do that. but if i've made you to at least rethink about your current perceptions on what a filipino is then i have done my job.

bankaw itomon

there's not enough reason y we should revive spanish language in the nation... gosh, we'll be spending lotsa money on that when we could've spend such on other more important things like development and progress...

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 08:49 AM

Ang walang katapusang kasaysayan ng pagbabalik ng Espanyol. :scouserd:

This will just keep on spinning around in circles. But nice thread though, you can feel the emotions of everyone.

Buti na lang, hindi ko pinost yung Teletubbies (http://pbskids.org/teletubbies/teletubbyland.html) :D

circles? yeah. maybe. but there are attempts to make the issue of the spanish language irrelevant to the thread. and it helps because the juvenile attempt to marginalize it highlights the issue. despite repeating the same discredited arguments on why the spanish language should not be national or official language.

bankaw itomon

jbkayaker12

August 9th, 2006, 08:56 AM

Yes but the Chinese came here just to trade. The Spaniards came here to unite the Filipinos. But I would not prefer Spanish as the nat'l language. It is better for it to be just taught. However, I also want to learn Mandarin for business purposes...

Actually the Spaniards did not unite the natives, they made sure natives were in smaller "communities", less chances of insurrection on a massive scale and easier to convert. :)

Josepepe

August 9th, 2006, 09:04 AM

there's not enough reason y we should revive spanish language in the nation... gosh, we'll be spending lotsa money on that when we could've spend such on other more important things like development and progress...

i respect the stand of those who only wants to make the spanish language optional in keeping with the conservative status quo. i disagree because i am militant and would like to see a radical change happen. one of the reasons for this attitude is that i dont want to lose my own nation's language in the framework of an evolving national identity. my disagreement are with those who does not see anything positive about the role of the spanish language in building a nation state. The self denials about the majority's cultural identity because of its hispanic or mestizaje implications.

bankaw itomon

jbkayaker12

August 9th, 2006, 09:13 AM

its not what i think that matters. its the evidence on the ground that counts when great civilizations are being discussed. there's no evidence of a nation state or a complex civilization comparable to the mayas or incas of south america in the archipelago. there were no temples nor city states. what's evident were village cultures of 100 or more families or less affiliated as a kin group rather than a sophisticated ancient metropolis. the closest you can call to a state is in sulu whose budding bureaucracy showed promise. however, trading with the chinese or japanese is not proof of a complex civilization. this is just trade. as for your opinion that the chinese have been living on our shores to paraphrase you. it really is not an excuse to claim the whole country for them as you allude because they are also foreign interlopers who have no business being there. the spanish came and left a country. you have to put that in mind before you make a comparison. while the chinese doesnt have any right to a piece of filipino soil. regardless if they have been the first to show up before the spanish, portuguese or not. remember that my ancestors were there first.

bankaw itomon

The natives were already trading with neighbouring countries and the natives were already using scripts to communicate long before the arrival of the Spaniards. The Spaniards corrupt ways even manipulated and change the scripts to further make it more easier for them to understand and in essense damaging a culture already thriving with its own language. Keep in mind the evolution or existence of Chinese in the archipelago was brought on by trade with the natives, never were the Chinese in our land to colonize and claim the land as their own. Whether they acquired land through trade or even intermarriage it was done so out of the context of colonization which the Spaniards have done in the past.