INQUIRER MINDANAO
The ghosts of Bud Daho return to Jolo, Sulu


Inquirer
Last updated 03:29am (Mla time) 01/21/2007

WHOEVER made or put the mysterious white “agong” in the small cave at the foot of Bud Daho remains a mystery to this day.

The “agong” is a musical instrument which produces a single note when pounded with a mallet or a large drumstick. It is commonly used by many Asian tribes along with other native brass instruments and is largely associated with religious rituals or festivities.

The people living near Bud Daho even believe that the silver gong is enchanted and that nobody has dared take it away from its nesting place.

IN villages near Bud Daho (Mt. Daho) in Jolo, Sulu, where over a thousand people died in a massacre by American forces over a hundred years ago, the sound of the puting agong has often been heard as a warning.

“When the weather is bad, the agong plays and different voices seem to come out of it,” said Normina Hadi, a Tausug artist.

“Usually, it comes when something is about to happen, as when there is a calamity or a really big storm is brewing. When people hear the sound, they would stop on their tracks and pray,” Hadi added.

So, when playwright Arnel Marduquio came up with the idea of the antigong agong (ancient agong) after a two-month research and immersion in the communities of Bud Daho, he was surprised to discover that one already existed in the people’s mind.

“I was amazed when they told me that such an agong existed,” Marduquio said.

Community people, equally surprised, had asked him how he came to know about it. Not everyone could go to that cave where the agong, (white because it is made of silver), would make itself appear at certain times, Marduquio was told.

The place where it is found is sacred ground among the Tausug and anyone who goes there has to go through a certain ritual, lest something bad will happen.

Musical

“Antigong Agong,” the musical, recounts the killing of over a thousand Tausug on Bud Daho by American forces over a hundred years ago. The story starts with the quest for an ancient agong to raise dowry for a traditional Tausug wedding, but which eventually leads to the discovery of the March 8, 1906 carnage at the foot of the mountain.

With Popong Landero as musical director and Mario Leofer Lim as assistant director and choreographer, Marduquio directed the show with a cast of 20 young Tausug artists who desire lasting peace in their homeland.

The show was mounted on Dec. 2 last year and presented in Sulu, Zamboanga and Davao, in time for the massacre’s centennial and as part of the group’s peace advocacy in Mindanao.

This year, it will be brought to the rest of Mindanao, Visayas and Luzon to culminate at the Cultural Center of the Philippines in Pasay City.

The group aims to bring the show to Filipino-American communities in the United States, said Marduquio, who was earlier involved in another musical performance tour of Salima.

He talked about a community in Barangay Danag in Patikul, Sulu, near Bud Daho, where 80 percent of those who lived are descendants of a massacre survivor. The tragedy was never written in history books.

“But their (the Tausug) oral history is still very much alive in the form of a lugo (chant), kissa (historical account chanted with the accompaniment of gabbang and viola) and istorya (storytelling),” said Marduquio.

“That was how the story of the massacre survived to this day,” he said.

Mission

Unlike other theaters, however, Antigong Agong is not meant just to entertain. It wants to bring about the message of peace, to turn Sulu from a war zone into a land of peace.

“This show has a mission,” Marduquio said. “The play may not be able to change the situation of Jolo but a good story can be the start of the long process of resolving the conflict.”

It is ironic, though, that a hundred years after the Bud Daho massacre, the American forces are back in Jolo for the Balikatan military exercises.

“They have never left the place,” said Marduquio.

Through telling and retelling of the tragic event, the people of Sulu seek a formal closure of the incident. But up to now, the US government has never admitted its own mistake or openly gave public apology to the aggrieved, Marduquio said.

“At this point, history needs closure but that closure should include the healing of the wounds of war,” he said. “Justice should be delivered.” Germelina Lacorte


Copyright 2007 Inquirer. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/regions/view_article.php?article_id=44634

COMMENTARY
‘English First’ policy will hurt learning
By Juan Miguel Luz
Inquirer
Last updated 01:33am (Mla time) 01/22/2007

http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/columns/view_article.php?article_id=44752
THERE IS MUCH TO BE SAID ABOUT THE DECLINE IN English proficiency in this country. But legislating English as the medium of instruction—as proposed by the Gullas Bill—is not the solution. In fact not just English, but also Science and Math proficiency will decline should this law pass.

Rather than propose that English be the sole medium of learning, we should in fact promote multi-lingualism: English, Filipino and the local language or dialect.

The Japanese will never forego Nihonggo for English, nor will the Chinese abandon Mandarin or Cantonese for the so-called global language. Neither would the Scandinavians, Germans or (mon Dieu!) the French. Why then are we so quick to ditch Filipino for English?

The overall concern about the decline in English proficiency is both correct and misplaced. Many employers speak of job applicants with appalling spoken and written English skills. They argue that this deficiency is a “lost comparative advantage” as shown by the dismal hiring rates of the growing call center industry.

But is poor English proficiency really the cause of our global uncompetitiveness? Or is it our low productivity and the inability to deliver consistent quality that hurt us?

The problem is not poor English. It is poor English, Science and Math skills. Weak English proficiency is not the sole determinant of poor overall achievement; it is merely a factor.

Unesco findings show that young children learn how to read and acquire numeracy faster and better when taught in their mother tongue. Their achievement rates in higher-grade levels are better than those who are taught in a language other than what they speak at home.

These findings have been replicated by the Summer Institute of Linguistics (SIL), which uses the mother tongue for teaching young children in Bukidnon and in other areas with indigenous people. These pupils have had relatively high literacy and numeracy scores in DepEd (Department of Education) tests.

The TIMSS (Trends in Math and Science Survey) test is administered here in English, making us one of the very few countries that take the test in a language that is not generally spoken at home. We do poorly in TIMSS. (The Japanese take TIMSS in Japanese; the Finns in Finnish.) But would taking the test in Filipino make for better scores?

The Department of Science and Technology did conduct such a test in Filipino and the results were equally dismal. Therefore, it’s not so much language; it is simply that children aren’t learning Science and Math well enough to solve problems.

On the other hand, “Sine’skwela,” the Science program on television, is broadcast in Filipino.

Dr. Milagros Ibe, then head of the National Institute of Science and Math Education (Nismed) at the University of the Philippines wrote: “Testing in English does not significantly disadvantage pupils who are taught in ‘Sine’skwela’ using Filipino as a medium. Understanding of the concepts in Filipino appears to facilitate transfer of learning to English.”

These children however are not fluent in English. In fact, “[they] find it hard to communicate and express themselves in English during recitations and discussions.”

But clearly, these children learn Science and Math: “Pupils in Grades 2 and 3 who watch ‘Sine’skwela’ attain master-level in 50-67 percent of the concepts learned, while those not exposed to the program master only 20-33 percent of the same …. Pupils in the lower grades are capable of responding to 4-option multiple choice questions .… Longer tests (i.e., more than 30 items) can also be used for them.”

In East Asia, the national or local language is used as the medium of learning for young children. English is taught as a subject—not as the medium of learning—and proficiency is seen as a key to connecting to the world, not as the key to learning.

We, however, seem to want to shortcut learning. We want to connect to the world to be competitive before we learn the fundamentals.

The current DepEd policy on the medium of learning set by former Education Secretary Andrew Gonzalez is sound. Brother Andrew was after all a linguist.

The policy says that the child’s mother tongue shall be the medium of learning in Grades 1 to 3 because the 3 R’s and fundamental Math and Science concepts are introduced at these grade levels. Makabayan (Social Studies) shall be taught in the mother tongue as well.

English and Filipino are to be taught as subjects.

If Mandarin someday became the global language for business, would you—an English speaker—learn your Science and Math concepts if it were taught to you in Mandarin? Probably not. The same would hold true for the young learner anywhere in this archipelago who does not speak English—or Mandarin—at home.

For Grades 4 to 6, there is a progressive shift to English as the medium of learning for English, Science and Math subjects. By this time, the concepts have taken root, and problem-solving and application are the learning objectives. Filipino will still be used to teach Filipino and Makabayan subjects.

For high school, the mid-grade policy on language is expanded.

The Gullas Bill is now in Congress, having been passed at the House of Representatives. Ironically, it does not deviate from the current DepEd policy. It is a dangerous bill, however, because it places a misleading emphasis on English as the medium of learning. As such, the young learners and their teachers will concentrate on the language, not on Science and Math and literacy (that is more fundamental to learning).

The key to better English is better implementation; more teacher training in grammar, composition, vocabulary; more mechanisms to expand English usage in schools such as campus journalism, campus radio, assigned days for English and Filipino communication and the like, more bilingual reading books and elocution contests and spelling bees (both in English and Filipino).

English is essential for communication, but Science and Math are crucial for competitiveness.

We need to be more creative and committed to better English teaching, but not at the expense of Science and Math. Legislation is not necessarily creative. The Gullas Bill in fact ignores world experience on learning by prescribing a solution that misses the problem completely: Why are Philippine schoolchildren not learning?

^^^^ Wow, this is a big thing.... Instead of debating about whether the Spanish or the English language should be the official language in the Philippines? Why can't we all just contribute our inputs for a better educational system in the Philippines? The Filipinos are already showing a decline in the english language profiency, How more if the system is changed into the Spanish language?

Every filipinos has their own primary languages which is their regional dialects or languages. I feel that every region is unique in itself, it is their heritage and that's the culture they were raised into. Unity amongst all people in a country does not end in a "one language one country policy" alone, it's the perceptions, attitude and opinion of the people towards one another is what needed to be changed...

^^ If we talk about native regional Visayan (mainly Cebuano) speakers v. native regional Tagalog speakers then we have more Visayan speakers. But currently Tagalog is widely known in the country, because it is the language used in the media and required by the schools.

The Tagalog homeland, or Katagalugan, covers roughly much of the central to southern parts of the island of Luzon - particularly in Aurora, Bataan, Batangas, Bulacan, Cavite, Laguna, Metro Manila, Nueva Ecija, Quezon, and Rizal. Tagalog is also spoken natively by inhabitants living on the islands of Lubang, Marinduque, and the northern and eastern parts of Mindoro. According to the Philippine Census of 2000, 21,485,927 out of 76,332,470 Filipinos claimed Tagalog as their first language. An estimated 50 million Filipinos speak it in varying degrees of proficiency.

Cebuano is the native language of the majority in more regions than Tagalog, being the language with the most native speakers in Region VII (Central Visayas), Region IX (Zamboanga Peninsula), Region X (Northern Mindanao), Region XI (Davao Region), Caraga Region, and Region XII (SOCCSKSARGEN). There are also significant number of speakers in Region VI (Western Visayas, mostly in San Carlos City and neighboring areas) and Region VIII (Eastern Visayas, mostly in western Leyte and Southern Leyte). By comparison, Tagalog is the language of the majority in the NCR, Region IV-A, Region IV-B, and Region III (Central Luzon, where Kapampangan and Ilocano also dominate some areas).

I believe having the languages of the region as co-official in that province will be beneficial. It does not mean that Cebuano should replace Tagalog or which Visayan languages should be deemed as official for the entire nation. The vernacular is already much used in daily life much more than Tagalog/Filipino/Pilipino. Its already a given that learning in your own languages are indispensable or better in learning a given subject(Multilingualism v. Monolingualism).

We should also not forget about Mindanao which is predominately Cebuano-speaking but also have its own native languages that are already endangered or extinct. With this in mind, that the destruction of these languages will have greaters implications in the future and not in the present. Around last year an article in yahoo news actually pointed out that: 'It has been said that a hundred years from now 90% of the current 6,000 languages will be gone."

I wanted to distinguish that native visayan are not neccesarily native cebuano and that native cebuano are not neccesarily more native tagalog speakers. I agree that as a whole native visayans MAY be more, I say this because I myself highly doubt the native tagalog speaker count, it does not make that much sense when you consider that megamanila reaches a population count of around 30 million and almost all of these are native tagalog speakers through time, even if they are mostly from a different ethnic group before. I also count the fact that many areas known supposedly as cebuano are not neccesarily so, the Surigaos and Davao's are a good case in point, speaking surigaonon and a cebuano tagalog mixture and even other languages as a first language in many cities. Of course this will change in time as Mindanao is mostly migrants in the southwestern part, the pockets of primarily hiligaynon, ilocano, tagalog native speakers will jumble into a polygot language as can be seen in Davao. I'm not even talking about the other original native dialects of the "natives". That's why I differentiate it so.

COMMENTARY
‘English First’ policy will hurt learning
By Juan Miguel Luz
Inquirer
Last updated 01:33am (Mla time) 01/22/2007

http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/columns/view_article.php?article_id=44752
THERE IS MUCH TO BE SAID ABOUT THE DECLINE IN English proficiency in this country. But legislating English as the medium of instruction—as proposed by the Gullas Bill—is not the solution. In fact not just English, but also Science and Math proficiency will decline should this law pass.

Rather than propose that English be the sole medium of learning, we should in fact promote multi-lingualism: English, Filipino and the local language or dialect....



The passage of such law making English as the sole language for medium of instruction is obnoxious and downright reckless. Jumping right away to conclusion that English is an all-purpose cure to student's poor grasp of the language and dismal performances on math and sciences is telling us that our lawmakers are not really doing their homeworks to come up with a more practical approach to the actual predicament our gradeschoolers are having trouble with.

I don't find anything wrong if they make English the medium of instruction in schools. It would depend on the person if she or he will perceive English as a "superior" language.

Many of my relatives grew up in the times where schools strictly implemented English as the medium of instruction and communication but they speak fluent Tagalog and Ilocano. They can switch from one language to another without much problems. Some can even speak Ibaloi and Kankanai. Hardly any schools practice this now. Only UB(University of Baguio) Science High School is the school where English is the Lingua Franca. As a matter of fact, they(the students) speak better Tagalog than the showbiz personalities based in Manila :)

As for Spanish, I don't know. I do not have any strong opinion on this language. I would not mind if it they put it back in the college curriculum. My mom took it from Elementary to highschool(and college din ata)... she can understand Spanish but she can't construct a single sentence... maybe because she grew up speaking mostly Ilocano and Pangasinense...:) My Aunt was able to take it up until highschool before it was removed from the curriculum and when I ask her about the language, she mocks the "th" accent. Ethpana.. Hehe..

At the moment, Ilocano is declining in Baguio..not because of English but because of Tagalog. I have nothing against Tagalog as I can speak it fluently, but I don't like the fact that it is supplanting Ilocano and Ivadoy(Ibaloi..hehe.. shiyay mango...:D). :D

Things should be balanced. Uplift the English comprehension(and not to mention teach Filipinos the proper meaning of SALVAGE) and the same goes with the native languages. I wonder how would a Filipino, who is acquainted to the Filipino understanding of 'salvage', react when a native English speaker tells him "I will salvage you":bash: )

If the reason behind the hatred for English is Uncle Sam, we can switch to British English, which IMO is the more "standard" English.

sorry double post

A Philippine language - Get the three major Philippine languages - Tagalog, Cebuano, and Ilokano. Tagalogs would have the choice of learning Ilokano or Cebuano. Visayans would have to learn either Ilokano or Tagalog. And Ilokanos would have to learn, you guessed it, Cebuano or Tagalog. I don't believe in forcing someone to learn a language. HOWEVER, I believe that we should force the learning of a language that one's countrymen speaks just as we force children to learn math and history. The choice of the language is up to them.
http://salitablog.blogspot.com/2005/08/my-ideal-language-policy.html

I don't really agree with this suggestion. It sounds as if there are only 3 ethnolinguistic groups that exist in the Philippines. Not really different from having one national language. It will still marginalize the other languages...

This suggestion is like homoginizing the Northern Luzon into Ilocano, South-Central Luzon into Tagalog, Southern Philippines into Bisaya. It's like incorporating the Ibatans and Pangasinense into the Ilocano population and the Igorot dominated areas of La Union and Ilocos(the places that were formerly part of Amburayan which was part of the former(1912) Mountain Province) into... the Ilocano population.

Another problem that we may encounter here is which "dialect" to use. Even Bisaya, Tagalog, and Ilocano has "dialects". Which dialects of this languages should be adopted? Pronounciations and terminologies evolved....

Gee.. I didn't expect reading and arguing in this thread would feel like the Spanish Inquisition.

(door slams open and three men wearing red religious clothing appear)

"NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!"

Oh crap. You guys better behave or they'll give us the comfy chair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F56ZZzz4meU).


someone is still living it up to the past by equating todays condition to that of da ispanis inquisiton. perhaps someone should update the dude that its 2007 and the 21st century. the conditions that brought out the spanish inguisiton no longer existed let alone the mind set that would have generated a " spanish like inquistion mindset." is this a "metaphor" or a poor choice in analogy? try again louman. this is mindless. ooops. sorry. jokes onli. ha, ha, ha....


dato banco

I don't find anything wrong if they make English the medium of instruction in schools. It would depend on the person if she or he will perceive English as a "superior" language.

Many of my relatives grew up in the times where schools strictly implemented English as the medium of instruction and communication but they speak fluent Tagalog and Ilocano. They can switch from one language to another without much problems. Some can even speak Ibaloi and Kankanai. Hardly any schools practice this now. Only UB(University of Baguio) Science High School is the school where English is the Lingua Franca. As a matter of fact, they(the students) speak better Tagalog than the showbiz personalities based in Manila :)

As for Spanish, I don't know. I do not have any strong opinion on this language. I would not mind if it they put it back in the college curriculum. My mom took it from Elementary to highschool(and college din ata)... she can understand Spanish but she can't construct a single sentence... maybe because she grew up speaking mostly Ilocano and Pangasinense...:) My Aunt was able to take it up until highschool before it was removed from the curriculum and when I ask her about the language, she mocks the "th" accent. Ethpana.. Hehe..

At the moment, Ilocano is declining in Baguio..not because of English but because of Tagalog. I have nothing against Tagalog as I can speak it fluently, but I don't like the fact that it is supplanting Ilocano and Ivadoy(Ibaloi..hehe.. shiyay mango...:D). :D

Things should be balanced. Uplift the English comprehension(and not to mention teach Filipinos the proper meaning of SALVAGE) and the same goes with the native languages. I wonder how would a Filipino, who is acquainted to the Filipino understanding of 'salvage', react when a native English speaker tells him "I will salvage you":bash: )

If the reason behind the hatred for English is Uncle Sam, we can switch to British English, which IMO is the more "standard" English.

the reason is that english is not the cure. its not hatred of english. by the way the thread should be changed to national unity blah, blah, blah .... through the imposition of english. ...

i read somewhere from another list and i quote that filipinos must be " america's bitch" or in this case a wanna be "british bitch" for insisting on english. its not phonetic with any of the austronesian languages and it destroys the integrity of tagalog. but some people doenst have a problem with that. owww this really hurts. but too late for you. the philippines is a tagalog republic in transition and tied to foreign lenders. what with the insistence to da ingles which i think is one of the requirements of more lending. i could be wrong but i think i read it somewhere.

btw. whatever happened to filipino spanish? the first casualty of language attrition that nobody here even remembers that there is such a thing. but who cares, korek? whats important are the titulados who constitute a minority and yet holds da power. and da money..... ha, ha, ha.,

just an opinion. dont get upset. oks? peace. shalom. salaam. bahala na.



datu banco

the reason is that english is not the cure. its not hatred of english. by the way the thread should be changed to national unity blah, blah, blah .... through the imposition of english. ...

i read somewhere from another list and i quote that filipinos must be " america's bitch" or in this case a wanna be "british bitch" for insisting on english. its not phonetic with any of the austronesian languages and it destroys the integrity of tagalog. but some people doenst have a problem with that. owww this really hurts. but too late for you. the philippines is a tagalog republic in transition and tied to foreign lenders. what with the insistence to da ingles which i think is one of the requirements of more lending. i could be wrong but i think i read it somewhere.

btw. whatever happened to filipino spanish? the first casualty of language attrition that nobody here even remembers that there is such a thing. but who cares, korek? whats important are the titulados who constitute a minority and yet holds da power. and da money..... ha, ha, ha.,

just an opinion. dont get upset. oks? peace. shalom. salaam. bahala na.



datu banco

I'm not saying that English is not the cure for national unity. In times of globalization where English is recognized as the world's lingua franca, we really need to catch up. I tried reading some online articles and according to those articles, China even sends their students to British universities for several years to learn English(while the Koreans flood the Philippines).. Filipinos view the Chinese and Koreans to be very(as in very very) nationalistic people. How come they are now crazy about English? They think globally. Not necessarily wanting to be American or British wannabees.

I've read your past posts and up to now, I can't comprehend your grudge against the English language.. regardless of dialect - British, American, Aussie, "Philippine English". It's already 2007, not 1940s. We need to open up to the world..... Maybe we should also offer other languages like French, madarin, Japanese, German, Dutch, Portugese as electives along with other local languages of the country.

Filipinos should really be aware that there are a lot of differences between American English and British English and other English. Even Philippine English is different from the American English(although patterned from it). For most part, Filipinos do not know that there are different "dialects" of English. I don't think opening(or exposing) the Pinoys to British English will make us "Briton's Bitch". So now, will you conclude that China(Chinglish) or Singapore(Singlish) or Malaysia(Manglish) are Briton's bitches(because they prefer British English to American English)? :D

In able to be fluent in English, there should be a playground. I don't think it would hurt speaking English in schools. At the end of the day(outside of schools), people will speak their respective languages. One reason cited why many Filipino-Chinese have very poor Mandarin is the lack of "exposure" and use of the language. These people, especially the younger generation, speak Tagalog/and other local languages in their daily use(in able to communicate with the non-Chinese miajority), at home they speak Fukien among themselves. They have no playgroud for Mandarin. Just as much as how the Cantonese in the Philippines are now Hokkien-speaking. The lack of Cantonese and the overwhelming Hokkiens. Maybe, the biggest factor why Spanish "died out" is because of the failure of the government to create a playground where people may communicate in the said language?? Not really of the English fanaticism of the people. But then, I could only assume. I wasn't born in those times yet...

I don't find anything wrong if English has been...to a certain extent... a little influential to Tagalog or other Austronesian Languages. I'm not a linguist but I think Bahasa is also partly influenced by English, however, it has been localized. Positive is Positif. Even Japanese has English loans. It's their term for the English word Internet. I read somewhere (err... again) that in Mexico, they use Computadora to refer to Computer. .. see, English loan that has been localized.

As I said in in one of my previous post, I find nothing wrong if they reinstate Spanish in the curriculum and build another playground for it(maybe let's speak Spanish in the morning, English in the afternoon... in school that is.. at home we speak our own respective languages). It's the world's third most spoken language, anyway and opening up to the world will be beneficial.

I don't think it's that late yet. With the proper orientation and blue printing, we can definitely get back on track.

I'm not saying that English is not the cure for national unity. In times of globalization where English is recognized as the world's lingua franca, we really need to catch up. I tried reading some online articles and according to those articles, China even sends their students to British universities for several years to learn English(while the Koreans flood the Philippines).. Filipinos view the Chinese and Koreans to be very(as in very very) nationalistic people. How come they are now crazy about English? They think globally. Not necessarily wanting to be American or British wannabees.

I've read your past posts and up to now, I can't comprehend your grudge against the English language.. regardless of dialect - British, American, Aussie, "Philippine English". It's already 2007, not 1940s. We need to open up to the world..... Maybe we should also offer other languages like French, madarin, Japanese, German, Dutch, Portugese as electives along with other local languages of the country.

Filipinos should really be aware that there are a lot of differences between American English and British English and other English. Even Philippine English is different from the American English(although patterned from it). For most part, Filipinos do not know that there are different "dialects" of English. I don't think opening(or exposing) the Pinoys to British English will make us "Briton's Bitch". So now, will you conclude that China(Chinglish) or Singapore(Singlish) or Malaysia(Manglish) are Briton's bitches(because they prefer British English to American English)? :D

In able to be fluent in English, there should be a playground. I don't think it would hurt speaking English in schools. At the end of the day(outside of schools), people will speak their respective languages. One reason cited why many Filipino-Chinese have very poor Mandarin is the lack of "exposure" and use of the language. These people, especially the younger generation, speak Tagalog/and other local languages in their daily use(in able to communicate with the non-Chinese miajority), at home they speak Fukien among themselves. They have no playgroud for Mandarin. Just as much as how the Cantonese in the Philippines are now Hokkien-speaking. The lack of Cantonese and the overwhelming Hokkiens. Maybe, the biggest factor why Spanish "died out" is because of the failure of the government to create a playground where people may communicate in the said language?? Not really of the English fanaticism of the people. But then, I could only assume. I wasn't born in those times yet...

I don't find anything wrong if English has been...to a certain extent... a little influential to Tagalog or other Austronesian Languages. I'm not a linguist but I think Bahasa is also partly influenced by English, however, it has been localized. Positive is Positif. Even Japanese has English loans. It's their term for the English word Internet. I read somewhere (err... again) that in Mexico, they use Computadora to refer to Computer. .. see, English loan that has been localized.

As I said in in one of my previous post, I find nothing wrong if they reinstate Spanish in the curriculum and build another playground for it(maybe let's speak Spanish in the morning, English in the afternoon... in school that is.. at home we speak our own respective languages). It's the world's third most spoken language, anyway and opening up to the world will be beneficial.

I don't think it's that late yet. With the proper orientation and blue printing, we can definitely get back on track.

well, the issue for me has nothing to do with language alone. it has to do with our national culture, meaning the culture of the majority. language is part of culture. which is something that remains unappreciated and misunderstood because of lack of information and context. sure, we have ethnic minorities and my disagreement with those who dwell on what i call tribal fundamentalism is the narrow focus on it . when this happens we are left with an impression that makes the exception the rule. i think they are doing a disservice to filipino civilization when they do that. of course we must value our ethnic minorities because their nations are part of the filipino nation. however, we must not only be inclusive but also broader on how we view ourselves and what filipino identity means. i think that the tribal fundamentalism in trying to resurrect a way of life from the pre-hispanic past is not conducive to progress. even the remants of it such as our cultural minorities have already been influenced in many ways than what their own ancestors have been doing back in the pre-hispanic past.

now as to my opinion on english and globalization. i think using english as the sole medium of instruction would not help filipinos at all. in fact, the progess during the garcia era was not because of english but rather a healthy dose of philippine protectionism of budding indigenous industries. such as the filipino first policy. the language they used was not english in interisland trading but our own local languages. in fact historically, chavacano was the the preferred language of commerce among the various nations of mindanao rather than english. as for education, i think that concepts are best taught during the formative years using your own ilocano or ivatan for example. english would have a place but not as an official language nor medium of instruction but as corollary to whatever optional subject each local area wants to put in place. it is better to teach english using your own language as a means of instruction. there is not one nation state and country among the economic 'tigers' lf asia that has used english as the means of instruction. they have not give up on mandarin or nippongo to teach concepts on their young. this is why it is a mystery to me on why many of our titulados insist on english only when the past disproves their contention.

my advocay for spanish is to preserve our own version of spanish. it is part of our national heritage and our national culture as much as the rest of our austronesian languages. we have filipino spanish and the recorded speech of quezon is one such proof. there is an evolution of that language among our educated elite and the masses through indigenized spanish words and the creation of various forms of chavacano. these are the languages that suffered a genocide with the introduction of tagalismo to our various nations. the idea being that a filipino needs a national language to become one nation and unfortunately a narrow concept of what filipino means. now, this tagalization by pretending that there is a national language called filipino (when in fact its still tagalog) threatens the existense of the rest of non-tagalog languages. many regions have suffered the same fate of filipino spanish. such as in davao, in mindoro, in palawan, etc. there is no place for them in the constitution. it is official policy to promote tagalog renamed "filipino" only and now the reimposition of english as means of instruction. i think there are other ways for our many nations to move forward without preserving the status quo. the only way we can build one nation in my opinion is not uniformity but an appreciation of our diversity sharing one ideal. english is not going to do it much less promote a remarkble improvement in the language capability of filipinos.

thank you for your thoughts. you are the only one who has responded without insulting me. i think your ideas has value but it has to be introduced in manner that doesnt make english as the supreme language. english would still have a place in the philipines. i agree that we need english to be learned for the globalized market place. but lets not continue to become glorified workers abroad but as traders ourselves and thats where the proposed english as medium of instruction falls short. there is no such thing as philippine english. what we have is taglish. which is neither pidgin nor creole of english.

have a nice day.

datu banco

^^ I think this is the type of discussion that I like reading from Sr. Josepepe.

Yep, I agree with you lilli. I like how Josepepe worded everything carefully on this one, nobody is stomped on and hurt.. Somehow, he is right about using the word "filipino" which is basically "tagalog" as the national language and not use "tagalog" word itself.

So far, I don't think there is any single individual here that rejected the use of the Spanish language, especially when added in the Philippine educational system.

I like it when he said these words " let's not continue to become glorified workers abroad but traders ourselves" and that holds true... It's the only way the filipinos would move forward and be one of the most well recognized countries in the world..

"animo: I was once in a Spanish class where all the ones who grew up speaking Spanish had worse grades than those who were learning it for the first time. i think it's just out of sheer laziness. However, the declining quality of English in the Philippines might also have to do with code switching instead of just laziness. Let's see how many of us can go through an hour speaking the same language without borrowing words or sentences from another. Maybe there should be a Guiness World Record for the Filipino who can speak in English or Tagalog or the local language the longest without code switching. hahaha."

---------
Code switching is common among Indians as well, have you ever watched a Bollywood movie? It's just like how Filipinos talk, half of a sentence could be in their language, the other half in English when they want to emphasize something, and the same "eliteness" of English is attached to Indians in India, the more an Indian's English sounds like the Queen's English, (I heard someone say the King's English, it's referred to in British culture as the QUEEN's English, not the King's English) the higher his intelligence is perceived to be.

King's or Queen's English, in my opinion, refers to who the monarch is sitting on the throne, right now it's Queen Elizabeth II. Maybe when Charles or William ascends to the throne and is the ruling monarch, then maybe it'll revert back to being called the "King's English." :colgate:

Code switching is common among Indians as well, have you ever watched a Bollywood movie? It's just like how Filipinos talk, half of a sentence could be in their language, the other half in English when they want to emphasize something, and the same "eliteness" of English is attached to Indians in India, the more an Indian's English sounds like the Queen's English, (I heard someone say the King's English, it's referred to in British culture as the QUEEN's English, not the King's English) the higher his intelligence is perceived to be.

The Taglish code swithcing is already part of pedestrian culture. You are right that it is not uniform to Filipinos only because the only languges have it too (ex. Englais o Frenchlish). But the languages needs to have a standard. Just like we don't use slangs in writing papers or formal letters. But I am not that familiar with Indian usage of English. :D

By Jaime Picornell
Cebu Daily News
Last updated 10:06am (Mla time) 12/27/2006


On November 22 at the Ayala Museum in Makati, the book "81 Years of Premio Zobel" was launched. Dubbed "A Legacy of Philippine Literature in Spanish," it has been brilliantly written by Professor Lourdes Castrillo Brillantes. She was a Premio Zobel awardee in 1998.

Invitations to the event were issued by the book's publisher Georgina Padilla Y Zobel (Mrs. Luis Mac-Crohon), a granddaughter of Don Enrique Zobel de Ayala who founded Premio Zobel in 1920. She counted with the support of the Spanish government's Program for Cultural Cooperation.

The book is a fountain of information, including biographical notes on the awardees and excerpts of their works. There are also insights into the vicissitudes of the "premio" and the lifestyle of the Zobel family.

Don Enrique Zobel de Ayala is a descendant of one of the oldest and most prominent families in the Philippines. He launched Premio Zobel on Dia Español, July 25 of 1920. A great patron of charitable and civic endeavors, he also supported the arts and letters.

He was a founding member of Academia Filipina de la Lengua Española, affiliated with la Real Academia de la Lengua (the Spanish Royal Academy of Letters).

Hosting the book launch was Ms. Maritoni C. Ortigas, director of the Filipinas Heritage Library. She introduced the evening's four speakers. First was HE Ignacio Sagaz, Ambassador of Spain to the Philippines, who paid tribute to Don Enrique Zobel de Ayala and his family.

The tradition of Premio Zobel was carried on by his daughter Doña Gloria Zobel and her husband Don Ricardo Padilla y Satrustegui. The legacy was passed on to their children Georgina and Alejandro Padilla Y Zobel.

"This is a labor of love," said Ambassador Sagaz, adding: "And of persistence on the part of Georgina, and encouragement from my predecessor, Ambassador Delfin Colome."

"Keep Spanish alive in the Philippines," he stressed, citing that it is part of Philippine culture, and that it should be an obligatory course in any school's curriculum. Filipinos, then, would appreciate their literature better, and open ties that could prove economically beneficial with all the Hispanic nations.

The second speaker was HE Joseph Bernardo, Ambassador of the Philippines to Spain. He recalled Don Enrique's resolve that Spanish should never die in the Philippines, as he said "Spanish does not belong to the past, but to the present, and the future."

It is not difficult for Filipinos to relate to Spanish since in all dialects there are many words, which are direct or derived from the language. Ambassador Bernardo said Spanish is the third most studied language in the world, after English and Chinese. He also opined it should be reinstated into the educational system.

When her turn came, Professor Lourdes Brillantes thanked Ambassador Sagaz for the book's prologue; and Javier Galvan, former director of Instituto Cervantesm for his unstinted support. She was also effusive in her gratitude to Georgina and her brother Alejandro.

Her task in writing this book was herculean, delving into the 92 awardees of the past 81 years. Some years there were two or more awardees, and other years there were none at all. Professor Brillantes said that the Philippines is not just the cradle of noble heroes but of excellent creative writers as well.

Then it was Georgina's turn to be called to the dais. She excused herself saying she is not a public speaker, but she did admirably and marvelously well in her witty discourse. She had a long list of people and entities to thank, among them Ambassador Sagaz, Ambassador Colome, Academia Filipina, Instituto Cervantes, Carlos Madrid, and most of all, Lourdes Brilliantes.

The book had previously been written by Professor Brillantes in Spanish. The idea of an English version was materialized but it took more than three years due to the new material and a wealth of photos that became available.

Georgina said she was very happy to have published the book, which covers many authors who wrote what is now considered as the Golden Age of Philippine Literature. "It is not a coffee table book, and it is not for profit," she declared. "What is important is that it be available to the greatest number of readers."

It certainly makes for a very good read. There are four Cebuanos among the Premio Zobel awardees. The first was Governor Buenaventura Rodriguez in 1924; and the second was Dr. Ines Villa, in 1932.

In 1965 the Cebuano awardee was Don Jose Maria del Mar, represented by his son Congressman Raul del Mar at this event. Napoleon Rama, publisher of the Manila Bulletin, was given Premio Zobel in 1992, and he was also very much present on this occasion.

Present as well were Vicoria Manguerra de Montilla, and Ana Maria Manguerra, granddaughters of Senate President Mariano Jesus Cuenco. He was often asked to form the panel of judges that awarded Premio Zobel.

The book is sold in Manila at the Ayala Museum and Filipinas Heritage Library as well as other outlets. When it is available in Cebu we will let you know, dear readers.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/cebudailynews/opinion/view_article.php?article_id=40374

"animo: I was once in a Spanish class where all the ones who grew up speaking Spanish had worse grades than those who were learning it for the first time. i think it's just out of sheer laziness. However, the declining quality of English in the Philippines might also have to do with code switching instead of just laziness. Let's see how many of us can go through an hour speaking the same language without borrowing words or sentences from another. Maybe there should be a Guiness World Record for the Filipino who can speak in English or Tagalog or the local language the longest without code switching. hahaha."

---------
Code switching is common among Indians as well, have you ever watched a Bollywood movie? It's just like how Filipinos talk, half of a sentence could be in their language, the other half in English when they want to emphasize something, and the same "eliteness" of English is attached to Indians in India, the more an Indian's English sounds like the Queen's English, (I heard someone say the King's English, it's referred to in British culture as the QUEEN's English, not the King's English) the higher his intelligence is perceived to be.

The Taglish code swithcing is already part of pedestrian culture. You are right that it is not uniform to Filipinos only because the only languges have it too (ex. Englais o Frenchlish). But the languages needs to have a standard. Just like we don't use slangs in writing papers or formal letters. But I am not that familiar with Indian usage of English. :D

I don't think code-swtiching affects the ability of the person to speak straight English or Tagalog. The Taglish code for example as @Animo pointed out has become the lingua franca of Metro Manila. I do it a lot of times when I speak with a fellow Filipinos who speak in the same manner. And it is not "pedestrian culture" I might say because even some members of the elites speak in the same manner as @Isabel stated. Or maybe, not exactly in the same manner, but both sectors adopt a variety of code-switching styles.

I have a different way of speaking though when it comes to professional or academic circles.

You can actually glean it when I post here in these threads. I express myself a bit differently when I am in the Samahan (informal and casual) threads as when I participate in discussions in the main threads, the economics/politics and development threads, and the heritage threads. It depends, too, on who I am having a discussion/exchange with. If that person speaks in a particular manner, i.e. code-switching or straight English, then I adapt and that is how I express myself.

^^ Yes, but saddly in the Philippines we have no proper guidelines when to distinguish proper usage or not. It has been an everyday culture because even the people that we deem to be natural/proper/role examples are doing the same thing. Just watch Philippine media or shows. I do not know what the other equivalent of mamonismo (besides code switching) in Tagalog or English where people uses another languages words in speech or in print wherein another equivalent of that word exist in the users language. Other foreign language teachers/institutions are strict about this issue in my experience.

Just to clear it up, I didn't write the first part of the top where it says "animo: ... " I just copied and pasted that from the first thread, someone else posted that. :) My reply part was below the ----------. :) I don't think there's anything wrong with code switching, I do it myself all the time.

Speaking of the Revival of Spanish, check out these videos Animo of ones just posted this on the other topic, which is also related to this topic, check out her publicist in the second video, notice how he's trying to rush the paparazzi to move it along in the background as Isabel speaks, hehe, it's funny :lol: :

Videos interviews with Isabel Preysler (had a conversation with her once when I was trying to contact her for an interview with our magazine, she was really nice, one of the nicest people you will ever meet):

VALmroSEg1c

And here's her at the premiere of one of her Porcelanosa home design lines, with her son Enrique's girlfriend, Anna Kournikouva:

gmIaC238z6I


Tell me what you thought about it, Animo. I especially want to know what you think and know you'd especially enjoy it considering you're practically the Spanish language leader here for over a year now. =)

^^^

I'd like to point out the quote that Isabel used was from me.

^^ Yes, but saddly in the Philippines we have no proper guidelines when to distinguish proper usage or not. It has been an everyday culture because even the people that we deem to be natural/proper/role examples are doing the same thing. Just watch Philippine media or shows. I do not know what the other equivalent of mamonismo (besides code switching) in Tagalog or English where people uses another languages words in speech or in print wherein another equivalent of that word exist in the users language. Other foreign language teachers/institutions are strict about this issue in my experience.

I think we should have stricter standards when it comes to our Filipino languages and English. Other cultures like the Chinese don't allow their language to be ruined by mixing it with another. That is why, if you've ever seen a Chinese TV show or movie, you'll rarely hear any English or any other foreign language. I don't think I'd want to see Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon destroyed linguistically because of Chinglish. If somehow Spanish gets revived to a point that you start hearing it on TV (I doubt it will but that's another story), we'll start complaining that people are talking Spanglish, Spagalog, Spagaloglish... hahaha.. We should end taglish now before it gets worse than what you are hearing now.

What ever language you blurt out really depends on how you are thinking at that moment. By "How", I mean not the "How" of the American Indians, but if you are thinking in English, Filipino or Chinese. Notice that I did not include Spanish, since I don't think in Spanish all the time, unless some Hispanic person will talk to me or I read or listen to some Spanish words.
To me, code switching is a sub-conscious action, even an illiterate person can do some form of code switching, but can he comprehend? Sure he will but after a while or after some forms body English or sign language.

To some Filipinos here who think Spanish all the time, then Ole! Ole! Ole! To all of you.


My wife said that I even dream in ChingLish, blurting out......$&#(*&(*% Xiao Qiong Oh yeah!



Buti na lang na ngongo yung pagsalita ko ng name ng girl. :lol:

I think we should have stricter standards when it comes to our Filipino languages and English. Other cultures like the Chinese don't allow their language to be ruined by mixing it with another. That is why, if you've ever seen a Chinese TV show or movie, you'll rarely hear any English or any other foreign language. I don't think I'd want to see Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon destroyed linguistically because of Chinglish.

Actually this should be the standard for all languages. It is a basic understanding that when you learn or a natural speaker of that particular language then you should stay true with that language. The problem for the 'misuse' of Taglish or what language it is in the Philippines is that it's considered to be a 'higher-class' norm. People started to emulate what is popular in the media. This was not prevalent 10 years ago. If I remember it correctly it was actually those ABS-CBN talents (Jolina M.) that started those '-ishes' and those 'friendships' talk et al.

If somehow Spanish gets revived to a point that you start hearing it on TV (I doubt it will but that's another story), we'll start complaining that people are talking Spanglish, Spagalog, Spagaloglish... hahaha.. We should end taglish now before it gets worse than what you are hearing now.

I think if you watch Philippine TV you'll hear Filipino words of Spanish origin already. It has become part of the 400 years of evolution of the Tagalog and other languages in the country. Hispanismo in Tagalog is around 30% while the Visayan languages are in around 40%. :yes:

The Spanish that people wanted to revive is the proper one like your comment about the Chinese language. :okay:

Tell me what you thought about it, Animo. I especially want to know what you think and know you'd especially enjoy it considering you're practically the Spanish language leader here for over a year now. =)

I can't really hear the 2nd video but her speaking is not typical Castellano. I don't hear more of the ceceo accent. My opinion. But she looks more Filipina as she aged which is a good thing. She looks European in her younger photos. :)

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e132/restardo/Retrato/Revista/ph397.jpg

Just to clear it up, I didn't write the first part of the top where it says "animo: ... " I just copied and pasted that from the first thread, someone else posted that. :) My reply part was below the ----------. :) I don't think there's anything wrong with code switching, I do it myself all the time.

Speaking of the Revival of Spanish, check out these videos Animo of ones just posted this on the other topic, which is also related to this topic, check out her publicist in the second video, notice how he's trying to rush the paparazzi to move it along in the background as Isabel speaks, hehe, it's funny :lol: :

Videos interviews with Isabel Preysler (had a conversation with her once when I was trying to contact her for an interview with our magazine, she was really nice, one of the nicest people you will ever meet):

VALmroSEg1c

And here's her at the premiere of one of her Porcelanosa home design lines, with her son Enrique's girlfriend, Anna Kournikouva:

gmIaC238z6I


Tell me what you thought about it, Animo. I especially want to know what you think and know you'd especially enjoy it considering you're practically the Spanish language leader here for over a year now. =)

Isabel Preysler habla un español completamente correcto pero efectivamente tiene un acento que no se identifica con ningún acento de las regiones españolas.

Ella es Filipina y cuando llegó a España en los 70 ya hablaba español; supongo que ella mantiene sus raíces filipinas y con sus familiares del archipiélago debe hablar en tagalog y no en español.

De cualquier forma, Isabel es una de las mujeres más bellas y elegantes de España, a mí me tiene maravillado el excelente mantenimiento físico de Isabel con el paso de los años

Saludos a todos

Animo, is this your blog? I've come across it before...

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e132/restardo/Instituto%20Cervantes/147022-Intramuros-Manila.jpg

In October, a breath of the north stirs Manila, blowing summer’s dust and doves from the tile roofs, freshening the moss of old walls, as the city festoons itself with arches and paper lanterns for its great votive feast to the Virgin. Women hurrying into their finery upstairs, bewhiskered men tapping impatient canes downstairs, children teeming in the doorways, coachmen holding eager ponies in the gay streets, glance up anxiously, fearing the wind’s chill: would it rain this year? (But the eyes that, long ago, had gazed up anxiously, invoking the Virgin, had feared a grimmer rain — of fire and metal; for pirate craft crowded the horizon.)The bells begin to peal again and sound like silver coins showering in the fine air; at the rumor of drums and trumpets as bands march smartly down the cobblestones, a pang of childhood happiness smites every heart. October in Manila! But the emotion, so special to one’s childhood, seems no longer purely one’s own; seems to have traveled ahead deep into time, since one first felt its pang; growing ever more poignant, more complex — a child’s rhyme swelling epical; a clan treasure one bequeath’s at the very moment of inheritance, having added one’s gem to it. And time creates unexpected destinations, history raises figs from thistles; yesterday’s pirates become today’s roast pork and paper lanterns, a tapping of impatient canes, a clamor of trumpets…

– NICK JOAQUÍN

There is indeed something with October which smote the heart of the great Hispanist Nick Joaquín (1917-2004): the feast of La Naval de Manila, perhaps the greatest spectacle Old Manila (Intramuros) ever had. The fiesta was celebrated with great pomp and revelry during the Spanish era and before the last War. It was in commemoration of Spain and the Philippines’ successive victories against Dutch invaders during the year 1646. What made it unbelievable is that the ships that the Philippines and Spain used were not battle ships at all; they were frail galleon trade ships! Most of the seamen in those galleons weren’t even military men. And instead of focusing more on their flimsy defense, many of the sailors invoked the Virgin using the rosary.

Miraculously, they won. And they routed the Dutch four more times after that. And since then, La Naval de Manila, which old Manileños likened to the legendary Battle of Lepanto (in which the Virgin Mary was also a protagonist), was made part and parcel of Manila life.

Wittingly or unwittingly, Instituto Cervantes de Manila and other Spanish institutions declared October as the Spanish month in the Philippines. Instituto Cervantes de Manila, the Spanish institution created by Spain to teach and disseminate the Spanish language and culture throughout the world, currently celebrates its sixth edition of iFiesta! Spanish Festival for Culture and the Arts.

And I give a toast to that, as well. In fact, I’ve been trying to conserve the spirit of this centuries-old fiesta on my own. And every day. It really began when I studied the Castilian language, “la lengua de nuestros padres”.

It wasn’t easy, however, especially since English –as well as the freak that it spawned: Taglish– pervades the Philippine airwaves.

But the difficulty of learning a new language is not in the learning process itself, but in assimilating oneself into the language’s “soul,” or having an attachment, “un adhesión o cariño”, towards it.

Although Spanish was a part of my college curricula, I really never paid any attention to it. I only began studying Spanish in 2001, when I was already a young father. I wanted to learn Spanish not really to open up new opportunities for me (although I have to admit that the goal may have somehow changed now, especially since I’m about to welcome a third child this January), but to rediscover who I really am, i.e., I have desired to discover my “roots.” (Especially upon learning back in college that the name “Lapu-lapu” is actually a Blair and Robertson mistranslation; the correct name of the Mactán “hero” was Cali Pulaco.)

No one could have elucidated on this nationalistic desire better than our very own Spanish Shakespeare, the irrepressible, belligerent, and legendary patriot Claro M. Recto (1890-1960):

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e132/restardo/Instituto%20Cervantes/110px-.png

No es, ciertamente, por motivos sentimentales o por deferencia a la gran nación española que dio a medio mundo su religión, su lenguaje y su cultura, que profesamos devoción a este idioma y mostramos firme empeñó en conservario y propagarlo, sino por egoismo nacional y por imperativos del patriotismo, porque el español es ya cosa nuestra, propia, sangre de nuestra sangre y carne de nuestra carne, porque así lo quisieron nuestros mártires, héroes y estadistas del pasado, y sin el será trunco el inventario de nuestro patrimonio cultural.

(It is certainly not for sentimental motives or deference to the great Spanish nation that gave her religion, language and culture to half of the world that we profess devotion to this language but because of national egoism and because of imperatives of patriotism, because Spanish is already ours, our own, blood of our blood and flesh of our flesh, for so willed our martyrs, heroes and statesmen of the past and without it the inventory of our cultural patrimony would be wrong.)

I grew up in an environment of Tagalog conversations and English pedagogy, although my father’s side were of Spanish descent (and some of them still knows some Spanish). Unfortunately, they never really cared, nor did they take pride, of their Hispanic heritage. Perhaps the proper word for it is indifference.

I still have vague memories of my bisabuela (great grandmother) who was a native speaker of Spanish. However (according to my mom), she banished her daughter, who is my paternal abuela/lola, from the casa ancestral when the latter married a native Tagalog whom the former didn’t prefer. Some of my abuela’s siblings knew Spanish (particulary Windalino Évora y Bonilla, 1920-1997, one of the World War II heroes of Unisan, Quezon), but she doesn’t. Probably, she was never taught the language because of that liaison. I even noticed that whenever I’m lucky enough to visit our ancestral home in Quezon, my grandmother is the only member of the family who doesn’t have a sepia portrait hanging on its centuries-old paredes.

Despite my Spanish ancestry, I look more like an indio. Or even an Arabic terrorist than a Spanish half-breed (my mother’s maternal grandfather is from Malaysia, but not even my mother’s mother saw him; only ageing relatives). And because of that, there have been many times when I entered malls that security guards kept a close eye on me. And I knew why. No joke.

But that’s not really the reason why I’m much prouder of my Spanish origins. During solitary moments, I try to figure out why. My dad’s Spanish side were of a landed gentry, but they weren’t as filthy reach as compared to the dones y doñas and ilustrados of Spanish and mestizo lineage. I haven’t discovered anyone yet from the family tree of any hispanista (but years ago, I learned that my abuela’s elder brother, Windalino –we Alas kids used to call him Uncle Carding– wrote poetry in Spanish; unfortunately, I still have to gain access on his works that are still hidden somewhere in our somewhat “unfriendly” ancestral house). But I really don’t comprehend this “patriotic egoism” that I have felt ever since I have learned about the amount of Spanish blood that’s still flowing in my veins.

Maybe the reason for that is I live in the Philippines. And this country, due to the backwash of 333 Castilian years, is still, by its movements and grace, a Latin country — the only país latino in Asia. And since the mores and norms of this country, albeit the strong tide of globalization and information technology, is still basically Kastilà, I assume that could have been the reason to my attachment to our Madre España’s heritage to our country.

It appears that Filipinos are Hispanic. It is inherent.

But later on, I’d beg to differ from myself. Amidst compelling evidence of the Kastilà that is still simmering in the Filipino cosmos, a greater percentage of Filipinos today hate our Spanish past. No thanks to the leyenda negra that our local educators –under the auspices of the CIA-backed Summer Institute of Linguistics (the same group who had a hand in the TINKERING of Ramón Magsaysay’s plane which crashed in Monte de Manunggal, Cebú, killing Mambo Mambo Magsaysay)– have successfully propagated, such as: “the Spaniards abused the natives when they imposed the unjust polo y servicios onto them; the Spaniards burned pre-colonial books; the Spaniards murdered Gomburza and Rizal; the Spanish friars raped the fairest Filipinas of their choice; the Spaniards owned vast tracts of land which they stole from the natives; the Spaniards hampered progress and education; the Spaniards bequeathed to us corruption; the Spaniards are evil beings from Mars; the Spaniards are all this and all that, etc., etc., etc.

Frankly, my dear, all this (and more) is a lot of BS.

Oftentimes, I’m led to believe that this attachment to Spain is brought about by my being a history buff. More than three centuries of Philippine history is written in Spanish, and that is where I’ve been trying to focus myself all these busy years. But then again, I can still remember that as a child, I used to boast to my classmates of my Spanish ancestry. And I never even knew back then that cuchara y tenedor, including my surname (Alas se dice wings en inglés), were Spanish words.

Even during my brief godless years, it was hard to deny my Spanish roots, although during that time, I hated everything Catholic, which is Spain’s “sister” and protectress for centuries.

Strange as it may seem, I find it unusual as to why only a few Filipinos are struck by this “national egoism” mentioned by Recto in that unspoken speech which was supposed to be delivered in Spain. But he died along the way (mysteriously?), in Rome.

I don’t want to harp around to everyone that, hey, I’m one of the lucky chosen few! Heck, no. I just want to ask something to each and every Filipino out there who happens to read this boring post if, at one point in their lives, have they ever even thought that the main reason why Spain united 7,107 islands and hundreds of warring tribes under one nation, one religion, and one language is to simply exploit and abuse us?

I find it all to stupid. When I was in the third grade, I find it too illogical to picture Ferdinand Magellan as nothing but a vicious and heartless monster of a conquistador, when it was he who was the catalyst of the Filipino nation.

In the US, they give thanks and honor to the man who discovered their country. They celebrate this event every year on Columbus Day (Día de la Raza en América Latina), celebrated every second Monday of -gasp!- October.

Here, if some government sector even plans of setting up a monument in honor of the hapless Magellan/Magallanes, it would be lucky if the project goes as far as contracting a willing sculptor.

To my knowledge, I’m the only non-elite and voiceless Hispanist yapping around this secluded corner of earth. I am affiliated to no physical group which aims to propagate and cultivate and preserve and defend the Spanish culture in the Philippines; I am a member of a yahoogroup (Círculo Hispano-Filipino), though, that fosters such aims. But up to now, the group really hasn’t made any significant mark in the mainstream; it only exists in the web, discussing and debating and exchanging ideas, but nothing more. And this depresses me.

But this doesn’t hamper my “quixotic goals” for Spanish in the Philippines. Though voiceless and powerless, at least I can say right before my grave that I fought a good fight, and stood up for my principles — quixotic words that are worth being laughed at by cynics. But I don’t care. Each individual has his/her own role to play in this world; this is the role that I was destined to portray. I will continue to scintillate my pen under the guidance of La Musa Española. At least, for me, that would’ve made a mark with a few good hombres.

Until then, I fight a lonely war…

***

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e132/restardo/Instituto%20Cervantes/200px-Bandera_03.jpg

To accuse the Spanish, over and over again, of having brought us all sorts of things, mostly evil, among which we can usually remember nothing very valuable, “except, perhaps,” religion and national unity, is equivalent to saying of a not very model mother, that she has given her child nothing except life, for in the profoundest possible sense, Spain did give birth to us — as a nation, as an historical people. This geographical unit of numberless islands called the Philippines –this mystical unit of numberless tongues, bloods and cultures called a Filipino– was begotten of Spain, is a Spanish creation. The content of our national destiny is ours to create, but the basic form, the temper, the physiognomy, Spain has created for us.

Towards our Spanish past, especially, it is time we became more friendly, bitterness but inhibits us; those years cry for a fresher appraisal.

(La Naval de Manila, October 1943)

¡Octubre en Manila!

http://skirmisher.org/culture/el-mes-de-espanol/#more-682

I think if you watch Philippine TV you'll hear Filipino words of Spanish origin already. It has become part of the 400 years of evolution of the Tagalog and other languages in the country. Hispanismo in Tagalog is around 30% while the Visayan languages are in around 40%. :yes:


Local news programs tend to use more words of Spanish origin than other programs (e.g. teleseryes, talkshows). Usually, when dates are mentioned, or numbers in general, news anchors and reporters use the Spanish equivalent. They even use words that I never knew was part of the Filipino/Tagalog vocabulary, such as danyos (damages) and ayuda (help).

^^ Yeah, I am also noticing that some reporters are now correcting the proper male-male or female-female words such as Iglesia/Simbahang Catolica. :)

Animo, is this your blog? I've come across it before...

Nope. Its some older guy.

---

Western Mindanao State University eyes call center project
Monday, January 29 2007 @ 09:31 AM GMT

Business
Western Mindanao State University (WMSU) President Eldigario Gonzales has sought the intervention of Cabinet Secretary Ricardo Saludo to help realize the establishment of a call center at WMSU.

Gonzales decided to bring the matter to the attention of Saludo after learning that the Commission on Higher Education (CHED) has removed WMSU from the list of 10 State Universities and Colleges (SUC)-member schools as beneficiary of the CHED project.

He said that WMSU is included in the original project proposal but was later removed from the list for reasons the school already has other job-generation undertakings in place.

He said President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo has ordered the release of P300 million from the CHED development fund "in order for SUC-member schools to venture into job-generation project through the establishment of call centers.

Gonzales is also the president of the Philippine Association of State Universities and Colleges (PASUC) aside from being the president of WMSU.

He said in line with the order of the President, each of the 10 identified SUCs in the country will received P30 million to start with the call center project.

He said at least 180 personnel will be employed once a call center would be established at WMSU.

There will be 60 personnel rendering service in each of the eight-hour shift since the call center will be operating 24 hours daily.

Once established, Gonzales envisions the call center in WMSU to cater not only to the English and Spanish speaking customers but to include Arab nationals as well since "right now there is an ongoing training for Arabic language in our school." (PNA)

http://biz.balita.ph/html/article.php/20070129093141193

By Neni Sta. Romana Cruz
Inquirer
Last updated 11:34pm (Mla time) 01/28/2007


WHO CAN MATCH THIS initial venture of Mother Tongue Publishing Inc., the new kid on the publishing block, with its quiet but impressive first release of six books recently?

“The Mountain that Loved A Bird” by Alice McLerran and illustrated by Beaulah Pedregosa Taguiwalo is an extraordinary book in many ways.

Those of us who have been associated with Taguiwalo in Ang Ilustrador ng Kabataan and the Philippine Board on Books for Young People are not surprised that the art work and book layout are stunning. The book is in softcover, in full color on thick bookpaper, and is clutter-free.

Pardon my unrestrained enthusiasm and yes, undisguised bias, but the book truly looks and feels like a legitimate children’s book.

The story behind the publication of the books deserves retelling.

Superwoman Taguiwalo, who wears yet another hat as regional advisor of the international organization, the Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators, met McLerran at an SCBWI conference one winter in New York.

A close friendship developed between them and they started to dream of doing a Philippine edition of McLerran’s first picture book. (The book has been translated in Japanese, Finnish, Spanish, German and French. Originally illustrated by Eric Carle, the book has also been illustrated by local artists in Pakistan, India, Russia, Lebanon and Turkey).

And now, we do not only have a Philippine edition in English with illustrations by a Filipino artist, but editions as well in Filipino (“Ang Bundok ng Nagmamahal sa Ibon” by Rene O. Villanueva), Iloko (“Ti Bantay A Nagayat Ti Maysa A Billit” by Herminio S. Beltran Jr.), Hiligaynon (“Ang Bukid Nga Nagpalangga Sang Pispis” by Genevieve L. Asenjo), Kinaray-a (“Ang Bukid Nga Nagpalangga Sang Pispis” by Genevieve L. Asenjo), and Binisaya/Cebuano (“Ang Bukid Nga Nahigugma Sa Langgam” by Grace Monte de Ramos).

Overwhelmed

At the launch, McLerran was overwhelmed and came close to tears as she listened to the beautiful readings by the translators in the different Filipino languages.

The book, appropriate for Grades 2-6 students, tells of the friendship between a mountain and a bird, Joy, who annually takes her rest on the mountain. But because the mountain has become barren and the bird needs trees on which she can build her nest, Joy has to fly elsewhere.

“Mountains last forever, birds do not,” Joy says.

But the bird promises to name her daughter Joy, who in turn will make the yearly visit. Joy and the mountain seal a pact of friendship.

Touching is the part when the mountain’s heart breaks on “the hundredth spring, the hundredth goodbye,” and yet from this sadness a new life awakens, and the friendship takes on a different dimension.

It will be interesting how children from the different regional languages will react to the story.

Aptly named Mother Tongue, the publishing company explains that it published the story in the different languages of the Philippines because of what Newbery Medal winner Ursula K. Le Guin said: “Literature takes shape and life in the body, in the womb of the mother tongue.”

Perhaps making reading materials in the original language of children would cultivate in them love for reading. Perhaps after their rearing in the original language would also facilitate their literacy in Filipino and English.

Current researches on language and learning show that facility in one’s first language—the mother tongue—enhances learning significantly.

Making books available in the local languages may be ambitious, considering that there are some 170 distinct living languages spoken in our islands. But the path started by Mother Tongue should be worth pursuing.

For orders, call 8014428; mobile 0917-7874956. E-mail mothertonguepublishinginc@gmail.com.

The author is a member of the Philippine Board on Books for Young People. She may be reached at nenisrc@gmail.com

http://showbizandstyle.inquirer.net/lifestyle/lifestyle/view_article.php?article_id=46133

Business English
by John Mangun
http://www.businessmirror.com.ph/01302007/opinion02.html

The debate is raging on how to formulate some sort of national policy about English.

The proficiency of English-speaking Filipinos is best evident with the applicants at the call centers where about 4 percent are capable of near-fluency in English.

This sort of policymaking is a complicated issue. National identity, as well as educational priorities, come into the conversation.

There is an increasingly vocal argument that if policy places too much emphasis on English language education, are we not reducing the priority for other disciplines, such as science and mathematics? And should we not first look at the overall problems with the educational system rather than just centering on English skills?

These ideas also make sense and are worthy of consideration. Countries that do not routinely use English score high on international tests in math and science, such as Japan and Korea. However, it must be noted that much of the written instructional materials often begins in English and translated into the vernacular of other countries. Does the Philippines have the resources to take that English-language textbook and translate and publish it in Filipino if not the other major dialects of the nation?

Another point worth noting is that it has only been in the last two or three years at most that the push for English-language instruction has taken center stage and we all know the reasons why: call centers. It is amazing how the money factor can change the “needs” and therefore the policy of a country. I suppose that if the call centers were required to do business in Japanese or Farsi, then the discussion would center on those language instead. One wonders though if there would be any nationalism issues about Farsi since the Philippines never was a colony of Persia.

As with any potential problem, there are several options usually broken down by short- or long-term solutions. The administration has tried to create some solutions for the short term, setting up programs that will hopefully keep the pipeline of qualified applicants for the outsourcing companies filled while a longer-term answer is found. These needed jobs are available right now and the industry is booming. Although qualified applicants are not a major problem today, three years from now at current growth rates, the industry may not find the Philippines as attractive as it is today because the pool of English speakers is being drained.

Ultimately, the English-language issue is an economic issue. Sometimes, although the government hates to hear this, the fact is that the people, through the free-market system, can formulate a beer economic policy than the politicians can do.

Several years ago, when cellphones were just beginning to become widely used, one South American country created an economic policy about these devices.

The basic premise was that cellphones were a luxury item that ought to be highly taxed as they would only be used by the wealthy. Governments always figure it is politically wise to look “propoor.” In addition, in the elitist mindset (which includes most of the world’s political leaders), it was judged that the “poor” would have no use for cellphones so there was no need to make them affordable.

As in most developing countries, the communications infrastructure of this nation was inadequate, I guess because “poor” people had no need for landline either. In the capital city, a few enterprising taxi drivers thought it would be good for their business to own a cellphone just in case a “rich” person ever needed a taxi. Some of the “poor” people started paying the taxi driver to use their cellphone. After a few months, you could find taxis stopped by the side of the road with a line of people waiting to use the cellphone. Soon it seemed like every taxi driver now owned a cellphone.

Sales of cellphones increased so far beyond expectations that more retail shops started selling phones and competition, even with high taxes, reduced the price of the phones.

Now some of the nonrich could afford to buy cellphones and as the number of users grew, they demanded that the government stop the high taxes, which exactly happened.

The point is that probably the government should concentrate on an overall educational policy, including English, for the long term and not worry too much about a panic policy on English. Ultimately, if there is money to be made learning and speaking better English, the people, through the private sector, will figure out a way to do it.

well, the issue for me has nothing to do with language alone. it has to do with our national culture, meaning the culture of the majority. language is part of culture. which is something that remains unappreciated and misunderstood because of lack of information and context. sure, we have ethnic minorities and my disagreement with those who dwell on what i call tribal fundamentalism is the narrow focus on it . when this happens we are left with an impression that makes the exception the rule. i think they are doing a disservice to filipino civilization when they do that. of course we must value our ethnic minorities because their nations are part of the filipino nation. however, we must not only be inclusive but also broader on how we view ourselves and what filipino identity means. i think that the tribal fundamentalism in trying to resurrect a way of life from the pre-hispanic past is not conducive to progress. even the remants of it such as our cultural minorities have already been influenced in many ways than what their own ancestors have been doing back in the pre-hispanic past.

now as to my opinion on english and globalization. i think using english as the sole medium of instruction would not help filipinos at all. in fact, the progess during the garcia era was not because of english but rather a healthy dose of philippine protectionism of budding indigenous industries. such as the filipino first policy. the language they used was not english in interisland trading but our own local languages. in fact historically, chavacano was the the preferred language of commerce among the various nations of mindanao rather than english. as for education, i think that concepts are best taught during the formative years using your own ilocano or ivatan for example. english would have a place but not as an official language nor medium of instruction but as corollary to whatever optional subject each local area wants to put in place. it is better to teach english using your own language as a means of instruction. there is not one nation state and country among the economic 'tigers' lf asia that has used english as the means of instruction. they have not give up on mandarin or nippongo to teach concepts on their young. this is why it is a mystery to me on why many of our titulados insist on english only when the past disproves their contention.

my advocay for spanish is to preserve our own version of spanish. it is part of our national heritage and our national culture as much as the rest of our austronesian languages. we have filipino spanish and the recorded speech of quezon is one such proof. there is an evolution of that language among our educated elite and the masses through indigenized spanish words and the creation of various forms of chavacano. these are the languages that suffered a genocide with the introduction of tagalismo to our various nations. the idea being that a filipino needs a national language to become one nation and unfortunately a narrow concept of what filipino means. now, this tagalization by pretending that there is a national language called filipino (when in fact its still tagalog) threatens the existense of the rest of non-tagalog languages. many regions have suffered the same fate of filipino spanish. such as in davao, in mindoro, in palawan, etc. there is no place for them in the constitution. it is official policy to promote tagalog renamed "filipino" only and now the reimposition of english as means of instruction. i think there are other ways for our many nations to move forward without preserving the status quo. the only way we can build one nation in my opinion is not uniformity but an appreciation of our diversity sharing one ideal. english is not going to do it much less promote a remarkble improvement in the language capability of filipinos.

thank you for your thoughts. you are the only one who has responded without insulting me. i think your ideas has value but it has to be introduced in manner that doesnt make english as the supreme language. english would still have a place in the philipines. i agree that we need english to be learned for the globalized market place. but lets not continue to become glorified workers abroad but as traders ourselves and thats where the proposed english as medium of instruction falls short. there is no such thing as philippine english. what we have is taglish. which is neither pidgin nor creole of english.

have a nice day.

datu banco

I think Philippine English does exist.

Ask a common Filipino what salvage means. Most probably he'll say "to kill". But if we open the American or British dictionary... it's "to save". Hehe

Another, the pronunciaton of Hipopotamus. In the Philippines it is HipopoTAmus. Outside the country, it's HipoPOtamus. Just as much as Tomato in AE is tu-mey-tow..not toh-mah-tow.

But times are different now, Josepepe. Back in those days, the demand of English is not so high. Now it's the opposite. Some Mainlanders and many Koreans turn to the Philippines as a cheap alternative source of learning English. In my school, there are some people from Africa who came here to learn English. If I'm not mistaken, Singapore is promoting "proper English" contrary to their "Singlish". To some extent, English has been imbibed by Filipinos. It's easier to understand scientific, accounting and mathematical terms using English. It would be a very very very tough adjustment. So the better alternative, I think, is to enhance the English comprehension of Filipinos. Most likely, if there'd be a sudden shift, more students would fail. I don't think English is what makes us poor in Math. I had a Korean classmate in my Logic Design subject some few years back. His English comprehension do not level yet the ones(Filipinos) who are prone to grammatical error; however during quizzes and exams, he gets almost perfect. It must be their hardcore training in Korea. But I'm not trying to make English as if it's the supreme language of all. It's just for practicality's sake.

I would not mind at all if the present official languages would retain its status quo. However, I'd like the other languages given priority in their respective "hometowns". I'm not really grudgeful against Tagalog or English. I don't think it's the status of Tagalog and English as official languages that is hurting the other languages but rather how regional languages are not given priority. Malay is the national language of Singapore but the Singaporeans are not "malaynized"(except for tha Malays of course). Probably because of their vision on diversity. I'm not sure though. But it could also be their "Singlish"...

Speaking of tribal fundamentalism, it's something I do not like at all. Hehe If you'll get to know the so-called "Indigenous Peoples", they're not really that abhorring towards the "majority". I know it for myself because I myself am "part Indigenous". I do have peers and acquaintances who are "pure Indigenous". Sometimes, these "tribal fundamentalism"(Ironically, mostly by non-indigenous peeps) are the ones hurting the "tribal cultures"... with wrong depiction. Some people would claim to have gone "tribal" but they do not realize that what they're doing is an insult to the culture of other people. This is especially evident on how some "cultural dance troops" and some "indie artists" try to "go tribal". Tribal daw OK, this reply is so OT.

Filipinos must learn Spanish! Debemos preservar nuestra cultura hispana!

^^ Must is too strong a word, in my opinion. I agree that it would be good for Filipinos to learn Spanish, but I don't see it as a necessity for everyone.

I think Philippine English does exist.

Ask a common Filipino what salvage means. Most probably he'll say "to kill". But if we open the American or British dictionary... it's "to save". Hehe

I agree that Philippine English does exist, but I do remember hearing that term "salvage" before in a movie called "Bcuz of U", and I thought it was just a pronounciation mistake from Geoff Eiganmann of the Spanish word "salvaje", but now that I hear lots of Filipinos saying, it's obvious that it's an Americanization of a Spanish term used in the Philippines traditionally, which is SALVAJE. I don't think it has anything to do with the English word "salvage", it has to do with the Spanish roots of Philippines, and the Hollywood-Americanization afterwards of Filipino words, many of which are Spanish, like salvaje, which if you didn't know, is Spanish for "savage." It could also be a mispronounciation of "savage" among uneducated Filipinos during early times, and then the word spread so much, and there you go, but a lot of words, English and Spanish, are morphed in the Philippines due to lack of education sometimes of Filipinos in the past, whether due to mispronounciation or inappropiate use, or sometimes from antiguated meanings.

For example, I hear a lot of gays in the Philippines use the American word "fag-got" in such a common use term, as if it were a "sosyal" term for bakla, just because they assume it's English, but of course it's not, it's a very derogratory term. And in the Philippines, people use the word "bit-ch" to mean "a girl that sleeps around a lot, a floosy, a slut", and that's what especially the C-D classes think I noticed those not exposed to a lot of American TV, but of course, in America and Britain, "bi-tch" means something more of "kikay, or woman with too much attitude" Or when you read something in a Filipino newspaper or magazine describing a girl as a "mountain lass", and it's funny, because "lass" is an outdated English word, it may have been in use during the 1930s-1950s, but it just sounds funny and kind of corny to hear that in newspapers and magazines in 2007.

And the thing that REALLY shocked me when I saw it for the first time is when Filipinos name their kids, boys and girls, "Mari-con", Jesus Christ, because if you didn't know, "Mari-con" is a VERY VERY VERY deragoratory term among ALL Spanish speakers wherever you go meaning "FAG-GOT", exactly that word, and exactly that HARSH, it has to be censored when shown on Spanish TV, unless you're in one of the extremely homophobic Latin countries like Mexico, in which they don't care. I just pray those kids don't go to Spanish speaking countries, because well, it's self-explanatory. But one term in a country, always means something else in another, among Latin Americans, and among English speakers, so I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, it's just funny to hear sometimes

Sorry for using the bad words in my examples, it just came to the top of my head when I was writing, hehe.

"Salvage" was a military operations euphemism coined under then PNP (Philippine National Police) Chief General Alfredo Lim when they had to get rid of known or suspected criminal elements without due process of law in order to "salvage the situation". After that "to salvage" had an acquired meaning in the Philippines of "to kill".

"Salvage" was a military operations euphemism coined under then PNP (Philippine National Police) Chief General Alfredo Lim when they had to get rid of known or suspected criminal elements without due process of law in order to "salvage the situation". After that "to salvage" had an acquired meaning in the Philippines of "to kill".

Wow, how interesting! Thanks for that, Lili.

^^ Yes, your version was also written about by Jose Lacaba -- 'salvage' as a derivation from the Spanish word "salvaje". But the first known use of that euphemism in the Philippines was around that time that Gen. Lim started using it. And then, there were claims by human rights groups of summary executions of accused criminals without due process.

Filipinos must learn Spanish! Debemos preservar nuestra cultura hispana!

Bien dicho TOMASINO.....¿hasta cuándo el Gobierno Filipino va a seguir negando la evidencia del español como idioma oficial en Filipinas?

Creo que Filipinas se debería tomar bien en serio el recuperar el castellano como una parte de sí misma.

Saludos

Animo, is this your blog? I've come across it before...

i think the author is one pepe alas. i could be wrong. but i agree with what he wrote. what i disagree is his claim of waging a lonely fight. he is not alone. although i understand his impatience.


datu bancao

Filipinos must learn Spanish! Debemos preservar nuestra cultura hispana!

de acuerdo. para preservar nuestra cultura filipina debemos recordar nuestra historia.

......and not only the spanish times but also the pre-hispanic past. we cannot be filipinos without relearning spanish and preserving our own non-tagalog languages.


datu bancao

I think Philippine English does exist.

Ask a common Filipino what salvage means. Most probably he'll say "to kill". But if we open the American or British dictionary... it's "to save". Hehe

Another, the pronunciaton of Hipopotamus. In the Philippines it is HipopoTAmus. Outside the country, it's HipoPOtamus. Just as much as Tomato in AE is tu-mey-tow..not toh-mah-tow.

But times are different now, Josepepe. Back in those days, the demand of English is not so high. Now it's the opposite. Some Mainlanders and many Koreans turn to the Philippines as a cheap alternative source of learning English. In my school, there are some people from Africa who came here to learn English. If I'm not mistaken, Singapore is promoting "proper English" contrary to their "Singlish". To some extent, English has been imbibed by Filipinos. It's easier to understand scientific, accounting and mathematical terms using English. It would be a very very very tough adjustment. So the better alternative, I think, is to enhance the English comprehension of Filipinos. Most likely, if there'd be a sudden shift, more students would fail. I don't think English is what makes us poor in Math. I had a Korean classmate in my Logic Design subject some few years back. His English comprehension do not level yet the ones(Filipinos) who are prone to grammatical error; however during quizzes and exams, he gets almost perfect. It must be their hardcore training in Korea. But I'm not trying to make English as if it's the supreme language of all. It's just for practicality's sake.

I would not mind at all if the present official languages would retain its status quo. However, I'd like the other languages given priority in their respective "hometowns". I'm not really grudgeful against Tagalog or English. I don't think it's the status of Tagalog and English as official languages that is hurting the other languages but rather how regional languages are not given priority. Malay is the national language of Singapore but the Singaporeans are not "malaynized"(except for tha Malays of course). Probably because of their vision on diversity. I'm not sure though. But it could also be their "Singlish"...

Speaking of tribal fundamentalism, it's something I do not like at all. Hehe If you'll get to know the so-called "Indigenous Peoples", they're not really that abhorring towards the "majority". I know it for myself because I myself am "part Indigenous". I do have peers and acquaintances who are "pure Indigenous". Sometimes, these "tribal fundamentalism"(Ironically, mostly by non-indigenous peeps) are the ones hurting the "tribal cultures"... with wrong depiction. Some people would claim to have gone "tribal" but they do not realize that what they're doing is an insult to the culture of other people. This is especially evident on how some "cultural dance troops" and some "indie artists" try to "go tribal". Tribal daw OK, this reply is so OT.

failing to appreciate the totality of our national culture we end up acknowledging the past up to a certain point. that our ancestors has stopped progressing in culture and identity. that we are not filipino unless we become tagalog or we retrieve a pre-hispanic identity that no longer exists. this is the nature of tribal fundamentalism.


datu bancao

What do you think it would make Intramuros more realistic if all those guardias and workers in that place can do the same with the 'Guardia Civil' revivarl? It can for tourism appeal too.

----

OZAMIZ CITY -- The City Government here plans to re-commission "guardia civil" to guard the 250-year-old fortress called "Cotta" in this city.

The Ozamiz City Government will train the "Guardia Civil" on basic courtesy and some Spanish language courses and they will be dressed exactly like the Spaniards's Guardia Civil of more than 300 years ago.

Ozamiz City Mayor Reynaldo Parojinog Sr. said the guards will be Ozamiz City residents, some of whom have Spanish blood in them.

Parojinog said he also wanted to build a hotel near the Fort or Cotta where local and foreign tourists can rest and stay in.

The fort, based on early historical records, was only among the six existent forts in Mindanao; among these are the Nuestra Señora del Pilar de Zaragoza in Zamboaga City, the Dapitan Fort located on a stony hill overlooking the sea; the San Francisco Xavier Fort in Iligan City made of squared stones, star shaped but smaller in size that of Ozamiz; San Jose Fort in Cagayan de Oro City; the Cateel Fort in Davao del Norte built of wooden planks with nipa roofing and the Tandag Fort in Surigao del Sur.

Earthquake

Cotta stands as a mute witness to the many events that took place in Ozamiz. It was subjected to deafening sounds on at least two different occasions.

The first from cannons and fusillades of soldiers under the service of the Spanish crown fighting against raiders and the second from the bombs dropped on the eve of the Japanese occupation of Ozamiz City in December 10,1945.

The Misamis Cotta was deemed important by the colonists that it was marked as one of three forts prioritized for capture to ensure contact with the Muslims who were to be used in the fight against the Spanish government.

The other two forts included were those of the Zamboanga and Basilan. Noted historian and Fr. Miguel Bernad said the Cotta was built 250 years ago as proposed by Fr. Jose Ducos for two reasons.

That is to repel the Moro raids, which were at their height in the 1750s, and to provide shelter for the ships of the Spanish fleet during that time.

In April 1955, an earthquake struck the Cotta partially damaging two of its towers with meter wide cracks. The quake registered an intensity 7 on the Richter scale and is considered the most devastating ever by the city residents.

'Show'

There were no lives lost in the quake but it destroyed important landmarks such as the centuries old Catholic Church or the Ozamiz Cathedral and the part of Cotta.

At the grand 250th year anniversary of the Cotta, which also coincided with the opening of the weeklong Pasundayag this month, Department of Tourism Undersecretary Oscar Policarpio Palabyab told the more than 5,000 spectators that their agency will pay in kind to the Ozamiz City Tourism Council chaired by Susan Parojinog for the development of the park.

Pasundayag translated as "show" in the local dialect is a regional showcase of Northern Mindanao's attractions, agriculture and aquamarine products, facilities and skilled workers done for the first time on a month-long basis.

Its opening ceremonies coincided with the 250 year old Spanish Fortress Anniversary celebrations. The activities in line with the event were sponsored by the private, business and religious sectors in the city.

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/cag/2006/07/05/news/.guardia.civil.set.for.revival.html

^^ reviving the guardia civil ?

Even Jose Rizal and M. H. del Pilar wrote about the abuses of the notorious guardia civil.:lol:

These supposed guardians of peace and order during the Spanish period proved to be more efficient in oppressing the helpless population than in protecting them from the tulisanes.

http://www.pagsanjan.gov.ph/history/Chapt3.htm

Even my great-Grandfather was a member of that, he run away and hide in Bicol where he married my great grand-mother who help him hide from those who were tracking him. :lol:

^^ reviving the guardia civil ?

Even Jose Rizal and M. H. del Pilar wrote about the abuses of the notorious guardia civil.:lol:



http://www.pagsanjan.gov.ph/history/Chapt3.htm

Even my great-Grandfather was a member of that, he run away and hide in Bicol where he married my great grand-mother who help him hide from those who were tracking him. :lol:

i think reviving the "guardia civil" only refers to historical reference to showcase a period for tourism rather than a literal resurrection of this police force. i personally like it because its good for the local economy and would generate business and jobs.


perhaps, rizal was criticizing the misuse by spanish colonial authorities of the police or the guardia civil to show the shortcomings of the colonial government rather than a generalization of the "notoriety" of the guardia civil.

i see no relevance at all of the internet site authored by g. zaide to guardia civil "abuses" because the whole theme is about folklores and legends.


the problem is the propaganda in perpetuating spanish black legends by people who do not see anything noteworthy or constructive in the development of filipino culture during the spanish period.

perhaps tsinoy should also "research" and find out the negative effects of the krag and the concrete in the alienation of filipinos to its own culture. maybe a balance would come out when both colonizers are presented. instead of being out of context all the time.

datu banco

i think reviving the "guardia civil" only refers to historical reference to showcase a period for tourism rather than a literal resurrection of this police force. i personally like it because its good for the local economy and would generate business and jobs.


perhaps, rizal was criticizing the misuse by spanish colonial authorities of the police or the guardia civil to show the ineffeciency of government rather a generalization of the "notoriety" of the guardia civil.

i see no relevance at all of the internet set authored by g. zaide to guardia civil "abuses" because the whole theme is about folklores and legends.


the problem is that the propaganda in perpetuating spanish black legends by people who has seen nothing note worthy or constructive in the development of filipino culture during the spanish period.

perhaps tsinoy should also "research" and find out the negative effects of the krag and the concrete in the alienation of filipinos to its own culture. maybe a balance would come out when both colonizers are presented. instead of being out of context all the time.

datu banco

If you think that I was out of context all the time, then the rest of the posts here will be out of whack. :lol:

If you think that I was out of context all the time, then the rest of the posts here will be out of whack. :lol:

it is out of whack. the generalization by quoting one liners to create the impression of "notoriety" by the guardia civil in general to the filipino mind is not about the thread. that's not the issue. some people dont see anything good coming out of the spanish period and that's the reason for being negative. yet, they offer no proof that the guardia civil did not maintain civil society whatever the shortcomings of the system during that colonial period.

datu banco

it is out of whack. the generalization by quoting one liners to create the impression of "notoriety" by the guardia civil in general to the filipino mind is not about the thread. that's not the issue. some people dont see anything good coming out of the spanish period and that's the reason for being negative. yet, they offer no proof that the guardia civil did not maintain civil society whatever the shortcomings of the system during that colonial period.

datu banco

Then, you are one of those things that I see that came out of the Spanish period.
:)


If you want proof of the abuses of the guardia civil, then do some research of your own, since the stories that my grandfather and great-grandfather told us would be hard for you to believe in.

^^ All police and military forces of that era had engaged in some form of abuse of human rights all over the world. That was why the Bill of Human Rights was later on enshrined in the constitutions of democratic nations to prevent such abuses perpetrated by the State against the individual.

Then, you are one of those things that I see that came out of the Spanish period.
:)


If you want proof of the abuses of the guardia civil, then do some research of your own, since the stories that my grandfather and great-grandfather told us would be hard for you to believe in.

again, you misunderstand me. i am not excusing abuses by the guardia civil or the police because the coercive power of the police is evident in any country whatever the time frame. but does it mean that the guardia civil had nothing to do with keeping law and order, flawed though it may be, in the entire country? was that generalization the accurate picture of what the guardia civil had done? the majority of the guardia civil were not spaniards but policemen that had been recruited from the local native population. you should consider that fact first because it could lead to a better picture of the guardia civil during colonial times.

btw. i did not come out of the spanish period. i am only pitching for balance in whatever you post because to you anything of the spanish colonial period is a ground for criticisim without looking at it in totality.

datu banco

again, you misunderstand me. i am not excusing abuses by the guardia civil or the police because the coercive power of the police is evident in any country whatever the time frame. but does it mean that the guardia civil had nothing to do with keeping law and order, flawed though it may be, in the entire country? was that generalization the accurate picture of what the guardia civil had done? the majority of the guardia civil were not spaniards but policemen that had been recruited from the local native population. you should consider that fact first because it could lead to a better picture of the guardia civil during colonial times.

btw. i did not come out of the spanish period. i am only pitching for balance in whatever you post because to you anything of the spanish colonial period is a ground for criticisim without looking at it in totality.

datu banco

Sure there was peace and order since all Filipinos were afraid of the famed guardia civil on what it can do to those who go up against the government.
Even when Filipinos were commissioned to be guardia civil in the latter years, their leaders and most of their officers are of Spanish decent and still take orders from the higher up.
I'm just doing some sort of a balance information here also, since people post their criticism on other nations by hiding it thru using other people's articles. :)

What do you think it would make Intramuros more realistic if all those guardias and workers in that place can do the same with the 'Guardia Civil' revivarl? It can for tourism appeal too.I think the Ozamiz city government's idea is quite interesting. As you say, it will probably appeal to tourists. Hopefully, it will also give us a certain sense, a glimpse of our past, and how it has influenced our current culture.

Didn't the Americans forbade the showing and displaying of the Philippine flag during it's early period of colonial management ( I think this went on till the 20's). I think it was short of treason if one was caught displaying the flag. Then there where the last rebolusyonaryos who where branded as bandidos and tulisanes in order for the populace to withdraw support from them. I think Macario Sakay was a victim of this branding.

And speaking of guardia civils, judging from the 2 novels of Rizal, I think he was more critical of the friars or the clergy. Same with M. H. del Pilar, wasn't he the one who wrote Fray Butod?

Hmmm if they're just changing the uniforms and calling them guardia civil then i think there really is no difference in a literal and figurative sense.

Kaya nga nag rebelde ang mga Pilipino laban sa mga Kastila dahil sa mga kalapastangan ng mga guwardiya sibil at mga pareng namumuno ng pamahalaang kastila. :lol:

This might put some hope to some of you. The Philippine presidential guard formal uniform was patterned after the Spanish Guardia Civil era of the 1880's and until now, I believed is still being used for formal occasions in Malacañang or parades. But during the last Independence Day celebration, the PSG was in katipunero uniforms. :D

I think it's a good idea to dress their guards like guardia civiles, after all, they are serving in a historical setting, that so-called "Cotta" in Ozamis as said in the article.

Just a precaution for Filipinos or Latin Americans who ever travel to Spain, there are many, not all, Spaniards that are not tolerant of immigrants. These videos are specifically about racism in Spain TODAY in 2007, the second is a commercial from Spain, which should explain itself about the situation there that an anti-racism commercial needs to be created.

VOsJuJR--bg

eouGwYHS4uE

rcTBbxj6Mso

^^ See the cantankerous and notorious 'Latin Kings' are giving Latin American immigrants a bad image adding fuel to this tension.

Even here in the USA, Filipinos would rather be identified with being Asians because of this image.

And I don't want to offend anybody, but the news broadcasts in Spain are also racist and biased against immigrants, and you can see it in the first video, how they made a point to emphasize gangs of immigrants, which are not even related to the story at hand at the moment, but hardly mentioned the Spanish gangs, thereby protecting the image of Spain by hiding or nulling down the fact that Spanish gangs exist, and emphasizing the foreign gangs, which in turn breeds and encourages racism among Spaniards towards immigrants.

We'll just pray to God. Nos rezamos a Dios.

http://galeon.hispavista.com/loscaminosdelavida/img/JESUCRISTO.jpg

^^ That is so true. They had to mention that.

Muy terrible!

Didn't the Americans forbade the showing and displaying of the Philippine flag during it's early period of colonial management ( I think this went on till the 20's). I think it was short of treason if one was caught displaying the flag. Then there where the last rebolusyonaryos who where branded as bandidos and tulisanes in order for the populace to withdraw support from them. I think Macario Sakay was a victim of this branding.

And speaking of guardia civils, judging from the 2 novels of Rizal, I think he was more critical of the friars or the clergy. Same with M. H. del Pilar, wasn't he the one who wrote Fray Butod?

it was graciano lopez jaena, an ilonggo and a great bisaya. the hero criticized by rizal for abandoning his medical studies because he concentrated on political work to free our native land from the "fray Butods." he also wrote in flawless spanish and but in no way condemned his culture as "unfilipino" for being shaped by spain in a huge way.

datu banco

Sure there was peace and order since all Filipinos were afraid of the famed guardia civil on what it can do to those who go up against the government.
Even when Filipinos were commissioned to be guardia civil in the latter years, their leaders and most of their officers are of Spanish decent and still take orders from the higher up.
I'm just doing some sort of a balance information here also, since people post their criticism on other nations by hiding it thru using other people's articles. :)

no. you dont. your pet peeve in beating a dead horse e.g. like "spanish colonization (which doesnt exist) in the object of the guardia civil is to justify the myth that the gringos came to "liberate" filipinos from themselves and "civilized" them out of their filipino ways (mestizo, hispanic ways). your mentality came out of that genre. a colonial hangover of the U.S bent. that the only way to become pilipino is to deny ones hispanic influence and reinvent oneself as a tagalog in a tagalog republic. which is what the philippines really is. the diference between you and me is that i dont want filipinos to be dependent on anything american. and i am a proud american who would willingly go to war for my country the U.S like the two generations of my immediate family who have fought and served. i am prouder still to be bisaya. i hope to see the day that filipinos fully open thenselves to their national culture and realize their potential not by being tagalog or tagalized or even "tribal", but by being truly filipino. i am also indigenous to the homeland but like so many pinoys i too have been diluted by foreign blood. i dont hold that as a crime and the reason why i care much more than those who wants to impose a pre-hispanic world that no longer exists.




datu banco.

no. you dont. your pet peeve in beating a dead horse e.g. like "spanish colonization (which doesnt exist) in the object of the guardia civil is to justify the myth that the gringos came to "liberate" filipinos from themselves and "civilized" them out of their filipino ways (mestizo, hispanic ways). your mentality came out of that genre. a colonial hangover of the U.S bent. that the only way to become pilipino is to deny ones hispanic influence and reinvent oneself as a tagalog in a tagalog republic. which is what the philippines really is. the diference between you and me is that i dont want filipinos to be dependent on anything american. and i am a proud american who would willingly go to war for my country the U.S like the two generations of my immediate family who have fought and served. i am prouder still to be bisaya. i hope to see the day that filipinos fully open thenselves to their national culture and realize their potential not by being tagalog or tagalized or even "tribal", but by being truly filipino. i am also indigenous to the homeland but like so many pinoys i too have been diluted by foreign blood. i dont hold that as a crime and the reason why i care much more than those who wants to impose a pre-hispanic world that no longer exists.

datu banco.


You can have all the Spanish influenced to yourself, but I don't need most of them. I have a lot of different cultures in my hand not like others here who assumed they are hispanic which they are not.

Filipino ka ba o Bisaya? :)

You can have all the Spanish influenced to yourself, but I don't need most of them. I have a lot of different cultures in my hand not like others here who assumed they are hispanic which they are not.

Filipino ka ba o Bisaya? :)




this last post of yours is an eye opener to your personal biases. i would say the almost pathological rejection of a cultural aspect of filipinos is a clue to who you really are. in fact, your choice of user name is a clue. you claim to be filipino and yet deny the reality of the hispanic culture present in the filipino way. a fact nobody denies in the academic world. from my experience people who have been claiming the virtues of filipinos i. e the tagalog as the sole basis of being filipino are the very people who harbor a deep seated contempt for filipinos and their culture. i hope you dont belong in that category. sorry. i dont mean to be personal but sometimes i cant help my background in sociology showing through. its a way of explaining the reason for beating a dead horse. anyway, the point is not about you nor is it about me. but your negative reaction to posts by forumers who discuss the hispanic heritage of filipino culture. nobody is forcing you to accept it or that you have "a need for spanish influence". but you have to be at least decent enough to leave filipinos alone who appreciate their national culture. especially the hispanic part. its part of who filipinos are and thats why they want to preserve that part of their heritage. they have the right to dissect their culture without being harassed with negative opinions. so leave them alone.

datu bacno

this last post of yours is an eye opener to your personal biases. i would say the almost pathological rejection of a cultural aspect of filipinos is a clue to who you really are. in fact, your choice of user name is a clue. you claim to be filipino and yet deny the reality of the hispanic culture present in the filipino way. a fact nobody denies in the academic world. from my experience people who have been claiming the virtues of filipinos i. e the tagalog as the sole basis of being filipino are the very people who harbor a deep seated contempt for filipinos and their culture. i hope you dont belong in that category. sorry. i dont mean to be personal but sometimes i cant help my background in sociology showing through. its a way of explaining the reason for beating a dead horse. anyway, the point is not about you nor is it about me. but your negative reaction to posts by forumers who discuss the hispanic heritage of filipino culture. nobody is forcing you to accept it or that you have "a need for spanish influence". but you have to be at least decent enough to leave filipinos alone who appreciate their national culture. especially the hispanic part. its part of who filipinos are and thats why they want to preserve that part of their heritage. they have the right to dissect their culture without being harassed with negative opinions. so leave them alone.

datu bacno

You don't need to be in that Sociology class to be whom or what you are. We are in a discussion on what each and every one of us believe in. If you are speaking for others, then I would reply properly. But the way I see it, you don't represent the entire Filipino who really don't understand the Filipino culture, much so the real Hispanic culture. If you think I was interjecting to the Filipinos who want to preserve their culture and driving them elsewhere, you are wrong.
You have to open your eyes on what you see in a Filipino. You are blinded or awed by those wonderful and eloquently written materials of the past.
If others think that those were negative responses, well, it is better than nothing at all. Better than agreeing to someone's post that a person just plucked out from the air. :lol:

You don't need to be in that Sociology class to be whom or what you are. We are in a discussion on what each and every one of us believe in. If you are speaking for others, then I would reply properly. But the way I see it, you don't represent the entire Filipino who really don't understand the Filipino culture, much so the real Hispanic culture. If you think I was interjecting to the Filipinos who want to preserve their culture and driving them elsewhere, you are wrong.
You have to open your eyes on what you see in a Filipino. You are blinded or awed by those wonderful and eloquently written materials of the past.
If others think that those were negative responses, well, it is better than nothing at all. Better than agreeing to someone's post that a person just plucked out from the air. :lol:

first, the mention of my sociology background is my attempt to explain the reason of your constantly beating a dead horse: a spanish colonization that has ended aeons ago.

second, you are steering filipinos from discussing their culture with your one dimensional opinions on what constitute filipino culture.

third, yes. you are unfairly being negative to forumers who are in it for self discovery. in fact, i dont see why it is a business of yours if they personally believe that they have a right to hispanic cultural affiliation.

fourth, far from telling me on what filipino is you should define and clarify what it means to be filipino. i have attempted to explain my part based on my own educational training that the filipino nowadays is really a tagalog based identity.

fifth, learning and appreciating one's historical heritage doesnt mean one is blinded (as you put it) by the "writings" of the past. especially, the hispanic past. it is a process of identification. a self construction on what or who one is. the present is molded by the past and the present could not go into the future without solid footing. that is the importance of having collective memory.

last, you imply conspiracy theories as if i am some whacko representing a group. i am not representing anybody. my opinions are my own. what i dont agree is your negative opinions without understanding the basis of the thread. which is national unity through filipino languagas and the revival of the spanish language. everytime a hispanic theme is posted you go out of your way to write a comment that's entirely negative. if you like, start a thread of your own extolling the virtues of what you personally think filipino culture is. if you cannot do that then its best that you steer away from this thread and be quiet. have the decency for the people who participate in the thread because of their interest in the hispanic past, and the preservation of filipino languages, including spanish, discuss that theme without harassment. that is the american way. which you should have known from the beginning.

datu bnco

first, the mention of my sociology background is my attempt to explain the reason of your constantly beating a dead horse: a spanish colonization that has ended aeons ago.

second, you are steering filipinos from discussing their culture with your one dimensional opinions on what constitute filipino culture.

third, yes. you are unfairly being negative to forumers who are in it for self discovery. in fact, i dont see why it is a business of yours if they personally believe that they have a right to hispanic cultural affiliation.

fourth, far from telling me on what filipino is you should define and clarify what it means to be filipino. i have attempted to explain my part based on my own educational training that the filipino nowadays is really a tagalog based identity.

fifth, learning and appreciating one's historical heritage doesnt mean one is blinded (as you put it) by the "writings" of the past. especially, the hispanic past. it is a process of identification. a self construction on what or who one is. the present is molded by the past and the present could not go into the future without solid footing. that is the importance of having collective memory.

last, you imply conspiracy theories as if i am some whacko representing a group. i am not representing anybody. my opinions are my own. what i dont agree is your negative opinions without understanding the basis of the thread. which is national unity through filipino languagas and the revival of the spanish language. everytime a hispanic theme is posted you go out of your way to write a comment that's entirely negative. if you like, start a thread of your own extolling the virtues of what you personally think filipino culture is. if you cannot do that then its best that you steer away from this thread and be quiet. have the decency for the people who participate in the thread because of their interest in the hispanic past, and the preservation of filipino languages, including spanish, discuss that theme without harassment. that is the american way. which you should have known from the beginning.

datu bnco

Langya, pinagisipan mo talaga ng matagal ito ah. :)

As you said - "Filipino nowadays is really a Tagalog based identity". Then you might have a problem with that since you are a proud Bisayan.

Who am I harassing? Those people posting anti-sentiments from the internet are the ones harassing what people believe in here. They rely on the opinion of others to post what they think is true and most of the time I'm just rebutting on their arguments that are luring others from the truth.

Para kang nagpalayas naman sa di mo pagaari.: lol: Most of us went out of line when you started posting here, amigo. :nuts:

Langya, pinagisipan mo talaga ng matagal ito ah. :)

As you said - "Filipino nowadays is really a Tagalog based identity". Then you might have a problem with that since you are a proud Bisayan.

Who am I harassing? Those people posting anti-sentiments from the internet are the ones harassing what people believe in here. They rely on the opinion of others to post what they think is true and most of the time I'm just rebutting on their arguments that are luring others from the truth.

Para kang nagpalayas naman sa di mo pagaari.: lol: Most of us went out of line when you started posting here, amigo. :nuts:



so what is the truth? your version of da truth? each time somebody posts on a hispanic theme you, louman and one or two nuts usually post a negative reaction in turn. isnt this a sort of harassment because it sidetracks from the discussion. btw. "most" of you went out of line because you disagreed emotionally with my posts and you took it upon yourselves that it was personal. in fact, it was not rebuttal you intended but to belittle me as a reaction. thats why you and your tiny group went out of line. you did it on your own. that was you and your "group's "doing. i merely gave back in kind after that never ending insults to whatever i posted. for the record your nonsense never rebutted any of my posts because as of this writing none of you had disproven the veracity of my issues. your so-called rebuttals are nothing more than to "harass" people on a self discovery about their culture be it the bisaya or the hispanic past. that's how i looked at it. so dont insult my intelligence. the best you and your "posse" can do is change the topic by insinuating all sorts of issues unrelated to the theme. so what "luring from the truth" are you talking about? your biased opinion because you dont want others to learn something from the hispanic past? lokohin mo ang lelong mo.

baket. ekaw ba ang may-ari? my suggestion that you start your own thread was to appeal to your sense of fair play and you think i was being pompous? if i was not mistaken you mentioned in passing on one of your post that you were a kano citizen. or an impression that you were one. that's why i thought that out of common courtesy and from one fellow kano citizen to another i could appeal to your fairness. in the first place you have nothing good to say about posts of hispanic themes. baket ka pa sasali sa usapan, right? you rabidly disagree with their issues anyway so why not a counter thread of your own? isnt that reasonable. hindi naman debate ang hanap ng thread kung hindi information about the pros and cons of the issue at hand. panggulo lang and hanap ng grupo mo pala. if you want i can resurface the ridicule you posted each time you reacted to a hispanic theme. ayaw mo palang marinig ang da isapnis eh hindi ka naman pinipilit sumali sa usapan. eh baket ka pa pala sasali sa discusion kong pangontra lang ang hanap mo. ano ang tawag mo doon? di ba censorship? you have no business being there than to make it difficult for everybody. so why not leave? or have you forgotten about an american saying that " if you have nothing good to say the best policy is to be silent". or something along those lines. baket who gave you the right to be the arbiter of your so-called truth? ako kahit may kaunting sarcasm ang ibang sulat ko di naman insulto. nasa topic pa rin at hindi personal. baket ako pa ngayon ang may sala "for you and your tiny group's going out of line". ang kapal naman. LOL.


datu banco

I sometime wonder about this.^^ It seems to be an accepted fact but most of the views seem to be from a certain perspective. My own personal experience as I relate to a variety of people I meet specially the farther I get into remote towns and barrios are that it's really not as spanish or even western but predominantly asian or malay. It's correlated by the opinion of other expats from western nations , spaniards and mexicans included, who say that the hispanic culture they thought they would encounter is really not there aside from the superficial. Once interpersonal relation start the value system is so very very different. Anyway just an aside.

I think it really depends on the upbringing of the individual, and from what class they came from. In my experience, whether Spanish-speaking or not, the upper class in the Philippines tend to carry more Spanish norms, manners, and customs, not necessarily just in the language, but more in the way the family is run, and how they speak, which is, it's the norm to be tactful and not too loud and boisterous, to be proper, and most important difference I notice, is to not speak too loudly, as in the sound of your voice. The farther you go away from this class, the less hispanized the people tend to be, they speak really loud and boisterous, lack manners and delicadeza sometimes, (but that's also a class structure thing common in other Spanish countries as well, the more educated tend to have a more refined way of "being") and this is what I've encountered growing up the way I did, and then meeting other Filipinos from different classes (which I didn't even know existed until just a few years ago) I found that the "lower" you go down the social chain, the less Spanish influences there are. Just my observation, please don't kill me with your words, hehe :)

For example, those tourists that visit the Philippines walk around, and they observe from what they see, and the majority of Filipinos don't speak Spanish, and that's the truth, but I watch a lot of Spanish TV, and if you translate everything that they say on it, on any show, comedy, telenovela, whatever, into Tagalog, you basically have Filipino television as far as the way people act, which I always said, even in our magazine, that that's why the telenovelas became so big, because Filipinos are looking at something that they THINK is a different culture, the Spanish culture, not realizing it's deeply embedded into their own, but Latinos don't realize that because of course, they don't speak Tagalog, so you have to take foreigners' opinion of the Philippines with a grain of salt and try to understand from where they're coming from, and not be so full of colonial mentality either that you base your sense of self based on what THEY think of us. Filipinos tend to do that a lot, which is embedded into our culture since in our culture, a person's worth is based on what the community feels about them, but me, I don't give a damn what they think about us, we all shouldn't. :)

Influence of the Spanish Culture by Dr. Leslie Bauzon Ph.D, College of Social Sciences, Department of History, U.P Diliman QC, Phils.

http://www.bauzon.ph/leslie/papers/spinfluence.html


Spain colonized the Philippines from 1565 to 1898. The Spaniards ruled the Filipinos for 333 years. Spanish influence on the Philippines and the Filipino inhabitants was immediately visible following the imposition of Castilian colonial sovereignty. The Spaniards transplanted their social, economic, and political institutions halfway across the world to the Philippine archipelago. The colonial masters required the native Filipinos to swear allegiance to the Spanish monarch, where before they only had village chieftains called "datus," to worship a new God, where before they worshipped a whole pantheon of supernatural deities and divinities; to speak a new language, where before they (and still have) a Babel of tonques; and to alter their work habits, where before they worked within the framework of a subsistence economy. The Spanish landholding system based on private ownership replaced the Filipino system of communal landownership. Thus, when the Spanish rule ended the Filipinos found many aspects of their way of life bearing the impact of Hispanization.

To administer the Philippines, the Spaniards extended their royal government to the Filipinos.This highly centralized government system was theocratic. There was union of Church and State. The Roman Catholic Church was equal to and coterminous with the State. Therefore, the cross as well as the scepter held sway over the archipelago. While the State took care of temporal matters, the Church took care of spiritual matters and hence preoccupied itself with the evangelization and the conversion of the Filipino inhabitants from their primal religion to Roman Catholicism. The Spanish friars wanted the Philippines to become the "arsenal of the Faith" in Asia. In the process, the Spanish Catholic missionaries helped in the implantation of Castilian culture and civilization on Philippines soil. This is because Spanishness was equated with Catholicism. The two terms were virtually synonymous with one another. One was not a genuine Spaniard if he was not a faithful Roman Catholic believer.

The imposition of the Roman Catholic Faith permanently influenced the culture and society of the Philippines. This is due to the fact that the Spanish friars who undertook the immense task of evangelizing the Filipino natives looked at their missionary work and endeavor as involving more than simple conversion. By Christianizing the Filipinos, the Spanish missionaries were in effect remodelling Filipino culture and society according to Hispanic standard. They would be Hispanizing the Filipinos, teaching them the trades, manners, customs, language and habits of the Spanish people. This influence is evident in the way we tell time ("alas dos singko y media"), in the way we count ("uno, dos, tres"), and in the family names we carry (De la Cruz, Reyes, Santos, etcetera).

The Filipino populace embraced Spanish Roman Catholic Christianity almost unquestioningly. The Spanish authorities congregated the scattered Filipino population into clustered village settlements, where they could more easily be instructed and Christianized under a friar's eye. This policy paved the way for the emergence of the present system of politico-territorial organizations of villages, towns and provinces. At the same time, the compact villages which were literally under the bells of the Roman Catholic Church permitted the secular clergy to wake up the villagers each day summons to mass and subject them to religious indoctrination of cathechismal instruction. This process enabled the Church to play a central role in the lives of the people because it touched every aspect of their existence from birth to growth to marriage to adulthood to death. Whether the natives clearly understood the the tenents and dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church is of course another matter. Some scholars claim that the Spaniards only superficially Christianized the Filipinos, most of whom learned to recite the prayers by rote without any idea as to their meaning. Some native inhabitants became only nominal christians. At any rate, there is no denying the fact that many Filipinos defended the Catholic faith devotedly.

Through the Church and its zealous missionaries, The Filipinos learned new techniques and procedures involving the cultivation of agricultural crops introduced from Mexico, one of Spain's colonies in the New World. For example, prior to imposition of Castilian rule, the Filipinos practiced swiddening or slash-and-burn agriculture. This farming technique involved clearing a hillside or a patch of land, cutting down the trees, burning the trunks, the branches and the leaves, removing the rocks, and then planting through the use of of a pointed stick to create a hole on the ground into which the seeds were thrown. Then the farmer simply waited for harvest time to arrive. This situation changed when the missionaries taught the Filipinos horticultural techniques requiring intensive cultivation of land through better irrigation and water management so as to lessen their dependency on rainfall. In addition to teaching the Filipinos new farming methods and introducing to them new crops such as maize, avocado, tomato, and cacao, from which the nutritious drink of chocolate was derived, the Spanish friars taught the rudiments of reading and writing to the natives, not to mention useful trades such as painting, baking and locksmithing.

In the course of Spanish colonization in the Philippines, the friars constructed Baroque-style church edifices. These structures are still found today across the country and they symbolize the cultural influence of Spain in Filipino life. The opulence of these edifices was clearly visible in the ornate facades, paintings and sculpture, as well as in the behavioral patterns of the people and in the intricate rituals associated with Roman Catholic churches. While it is true the Spaniards exploited labor in the construction of the imposing Baroque-style sanctuaries for Roman Catholic worship, it is also true that the same edifices became the means by which Filipino artistic talents and inclinations were expressed. The carpenters, masons, craftsmen and artisans were mainly Filipinos. In this way, the Roman Catholic Church and religion influenced Filipino architectural and building style, even as the rituals and festivities of the Church influenced Filipino dances, songs, paintings and literary writings. Through these influences, the Church afforded the Filipinos abundant opportunities for both solemn rites and joyous festivities and celebrations known as "fiestas." The services inside the Catholic churches often spilled out into the thoroughfare in the form of colorful pageant filled with religious processions in which the rich and the poor participated. Dining, drinking and merrymaking often followed or accompanied such religious activities. During these feasts, Spanish culinary specialties like "paella" (a dish consisting of a mixture of rice, chicken and shellfish). "arroz valenciana" (glutinous rice and chicken cooked in coconut milk), and "lengua" (sauteed ox-tongue usually with mushroom sauce) became part of the local table fare. the rites and festivities served to provide relief from the drudgery of humdrum village existence to release pent up social and economic frustrations or to foster community spirit and unity.

Finally, it is worth mentioning that the Spaniards enriched the Filipino languages through lexicographic studies produced by the friars. Many Spanish words found their way into the Tagalog and Visayan languages. The Spanish words somehow fitted into the phonetic pattern of the Filipino languages.These Spanish words like "mesa" (table), "adobo" (marinated cooked food), and others are commonly used today in the daily transactions of the Filipinos with each other. Ironically, the friars came up with excellent studies on Filipino culture and languages even as they sought to overthrow this same culture through their implantation of Spanish civilization.

The influences from Spain have become permanently embedded in Filipino culture. The Filipino people themselves have internalized them. They cannot be undone anymore. For good or bad, they have catapulted the Filipinos into the world of Spanish culture, into the world of Spanish civilization and its products. Nevertheless, it must be said that the Filipinos did not receive the cultural influences from Spain sitting down. They responded in a way that demonstrated their capacity to master the new and to balance the new against the old in way that called for their capacity to bring values and principles to bear with a critical and informed judgement, and in a way that called for them to sift what is essential from the trivial. Thus they responded selectively to the novelties the Spaniards brought with them to the Philippine islands. The Filipinos accepted only those that fitted their temperament, such as the "fiesta" that has become one of the most endearing aspects of life in these islands, and made them blend with their indigenous lifestyle to produce a precious Philippine cultural heritage.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


in short, the authentic filipino was born instead of an identity cooked from one region or from an imaginary indigenous "tribal" lifestyle forever lost in the pre-hispanic past.

datu bacno

A nostalgia for Spain
HINDSIGHT By F Sionil Jose
The Philippine STAR 02/04/2007

Authentic Though Not Exotic–Essays On Filipino Identity

By Fernando Zialcita

Ateneo de Manila University Press, 340pp

It takes a bourgeois Manileño with almost no roots in the lower classes, city-bred and city-smart, to write so knowingly about the Filipino – who he is, what he is, and perhaps, where he is headed. A doctorate in social anthropology helps, but not much. The trained eye, the capacity to understand those nuances left by history, geography, religion, and how they shaped the Filipino identity – these are what Fernando Zialcita abundantly shows in this book.

The shaping of the Filipino continues to this very day and so, too, this country that became a modern state before its disparate peoples were blended together to form a nation. Will Filipinos ever blend? Or will the Philippines fragment as, indeed, other older states in Europe and elsewhere have already fragmented?

How is a nation created?

The artist creates myths to ennoble a people; the scholar deconstructs the myths to expose the bones. Both artist and scholar serve functions, not only as they see themselves or reality, but in exploring the unending contradiction of life itself. I am for the mythmaker for as long as his myths help in the social cohesion of a people. Who can find, for instance, the proof that George Washington really did chop down that cherry tree and wouldn’t lie about it? Who could verily state that he saw William Tell shoot an arrow at the apple on top of his son’s head? Who really believes that the Japanese are born out of Amaterasu, the sun god?

So, too, the Code of Kalantiao, which purports to show that ancient Filipinos were moral, never really existed; and that sterling woman warrior, Princess Urduja – was she a real historical figure?

Zialcita insinuates answers to timeless questions about culture change. He also adds to what several students of our history have said before – Nick Joaquin, Benito F. Legarda Jr., Alfredo Roces and students of architecture like Fr. Rodrigo Perez III. He enlarges and deepens their perceptions, and in the process, has come up with some lucid explanations as to how certain misconceptions have become conventional knowledge.

Filipinos want to glorify the barong tagalog as a racial reaction against the Spaniards who tucked in their shirts. But Zialcita says that never really happened. The proof of the pudding, it is often said, is in the eating. Do such myths benefit a people or do they negate their sense of worth? If myths do not negate a community or a nation, then let them be.

Zialcita brings Marxism into his discourse with probing insights. He is right in assuming that in the study of Filipino society and why Filipinos are poor, Marx does not provide all the answers; that Filipinos interested in changing this society should go beyond Marx.

Well said, but this does not mean Marx is completely irrelevant now. Wealth means power and power has to be translated, not just in the distribution of wealth itself, but in the provision of justice. In this global economy, development is the basis of wealth and to achieve it, it is imperative for a government to fuel the engines of growth, bringing forth the fullest use of resources – not just material wealth itself but the wealth that is not materially measured – the wealth of culture of a people united in their energies, in their vision, and most of all in their commitment to the country – the sense of nation which, alas, is missing in this country today.

Who will be the nation builders? Who else but those Filipinos willing to sacrifice – as Zialcita himself has indicated – in the upper classes of society willing to recognize the value and contribution of the masa?

In those 300 years that the Spaniards were in the Philippines, they intermarried with the Indios but not as much as they did in South America, in Mexico particularly. Countries like Chile and Argentina are basically European – and in a large country like Peru, the elite is white, not Indian. Brazil has a large black population and Portuguese descendants.

Mexicans say they are mestizos with some basis in fact. Mexico, like Peru, had a civilization of notable sophistication and strength when the Spaniards arrived – the Aztecs and the Incas had large cities, advanced science, particularly in astronomy where they excelled. Not so many Spaniards came to dominate the Philippines because of the distance from Spain. Spanish was not taught to the natives on the scale that it was in South America; hence, Spanish became the lingua franca of that continent.

We are not all mestizos as Zialcita claims, although there were many notable Creoles who were in the vanguard of the revolution against Spain. If this so-called mixing of Spanish blood with the native breed is quantified, what would clearly show is that the dilution was not all that widespread, although, in the end, the higher up the social and political ladder, the whiter one became – Spanish white, not American white, because the American colonizers did not stay long enough. This ratio is changing, though, for the elite is slowly but surely being diluted by Chinese yellow.

And the Malay brown?

The weakness of so many studies on the nature of societies is that they are based on history, religion, geography and all those anthropological constructs, which the economists consider micro. They have very little consideration for the greater influence by what Marxists or other scholars interested in the formation of nations would highlight – power, economic strength, which, in the long run, is the ultimate shaper of societies.

It is not the manner of cooking, for instance, that is studied, but the why of it – why certain countries have such sophisticated cuisines. It is because of the existence of powerful regimes, monarchical dynasties, which dictate such refinements – the imperial court of China, the datus, the kings and their desire for more finesse, comfort and luxury.

In architecture, it is the power of the colonizers, the rulers, which dictates what the structures should be. Take for instance the nipa hut – it is the power of the landlord, the encomiendero, which demanded that the nipa hut be light, moveable, cheap, so that the peasant could easily build one if the landlord ordered him to move.

It is when we peruse such elements that we come to the crucial question of our laggard development, why our government is corrupt, why Filipinos are poor.

Zialcita concludes that we should have stronger ties with Mexico, the South American countries and, inferentially, Spain. Again, nostalgia for Spanish colonialism. Sure, we should have better relationships with these countries, but we are in Southeast Asia, hostage to developments here and to the hegemonic ambitions of China and, of course, the shadow of the United States.

I cannot see any economic or even cultural reasons for us to strengthen ties with Mexico or with the countries of South America other than nostalgia. It is with our immediate neighbors that we should build such ties, particularly Indonesia, and of course with the economic behemoths like Japan, South Korea, India, and the Middle East countries on whom we are dependent on oil. And there is that specter hovering over us – the reality of all Southeast Asia being Sinicized in the future.

Spanish, for all the advantages it gives, is important, but not as important as English, which has become the lingua franca of the world. Forget Tagalog – it is not as important as English, which makes us all equal. In the first place, whether we like it or not, it has become a real national language through actual usage. It is English that must be polished, for it is our window to the world.

Just the same, Zialcita’s essay is a most illuminating examination of Filipino culture as compared to such rash conclusions of an even greater writer like Nick Joaquin who once declared that we have a tradition of "smallness." Tradition? It is the condition imposed on all poor societies, in Africa, in Southeast Asia, in the entire Third World where people buy tingi, whether it is cigarettes, bread or other basic commodities.

It is always exhilarating for us to examine what our culture is, its origins, its uniqueness, because as Zialcita so eloquently illustrated, we have so many things to be proud of.

But let us now go into some basics. The logic of colonialism is exploitation. Whether it is propelled by whatever ideology – to make the world "safe" for democracy, to spread civilization or Christianity – the white man’s burden, whatever sugar-coated objective it is, is driven by this logic. Therefore, colonialism by any name is immoral.

Reading Zialcita’s excellent exposition, as with some of the well-researched discourses of our Hispanophiles, I get an uneasy feeling that this excellent book is one more apologia for Spanish colonialism.

The colonized intellectual must first free himself, his mind most of all, from the subterfuges of the colonizer. He must recover the pristine self even if this means, as Nick Joaquin once charged, "to be an Igorot" – as if being one is to be stigmatized. Start from the mud at our feet, from mythic incense, the life-giving impulse of the cosmos, and from this purity, recognize the inputs of history, all the precious elements that contribute to the building of a nation.

Only when the colonized has achieved this innate freedom will he then be able to assume his true identity. Otherwise, his thinking will always be a monotonous echo of the colonizer’s dulcet spiel.

So it goes today: our modern ilustrados have yet to free themselves from prisons of the past, from the chains of colonialism, particularly the domestic variety. Until they recognize this bondage and oppose it, we will continue to wallow in blissful ignorance, and worse, in the muck of spiritual poverty left by the ghosts of colonialism.


http://philstar.com/philstar/LIFESTYLE200702043706.htm

so what is the truth? your version of da truth? each time somebody posts on a hispanic theme you, louman and one or two nuts usually post a negative reaction in turn. isnt this a sort of harassment because it sidetracks from the discussion. btw. "most" of you went out of line because you disagreed emotionally with my posts and you took it upon yourselves that it was personal. in fact, it was not rebuttal you intended but to belittle me as a reaction. thats why you and your tiny group went out of line. you did it on your own. that was you and your "group's "doing. i merely gave back in kind after that never ending insults to whatever i posted. for the record your nonsense never rebutted any of my posts because as of this writing none of you had disproven the veracity of my issues. your so-called rebuttals are nothing more than to "harass" people on a self discovery about their culture be it the bisaya or the hispanic past. that's how i looked at it. so dont insult my intelligence. the best you and your "posse" can do is change the topic by insinuating all sorts of issues unrelated to the theme. so what "luring from the truth" are you talking about? your biased opinion because you dont want others to learn something from the hispanic past? lokohin mo ang lelong mo.

baket. ekaw ba ang may-ari? my suggestion that you start your own thread was to appeal to your sense of fair play and you think i was being pompous? if i was not mistaken you mentioned in passing on one of your post that you were a kano citizen. or an impression that you were one. that's why i thought that out of common courtesy and from one fellow kano citizen to another i could appeal to your fairness. in the first place you have nothing good to say about posts of hispanic themes. baket ka pa sasali sa usapan, right? you rabidly disagree with their issues anyway so why not a counter thread of your own? isnt that reasonable. hindi naman debate ang hanap ng thread kung hindi information about the pros and cons of the issue at hand. panggulo lang and hanap ng grupo mo pala. if you want i can resurface the ridicule you posted each time you reacted to a hispanic theme. ayaw mo palang marinig ang da isapnis eh hindi ka naman pinipilit sumali sa usapan. eh baket ka pa pala sasali sa discusion kong pangontra lang ang hanap mo. ano ang tawag mo doon? di ba censorship? you have no business being there than to make it difficult for everybody. so why not leave? or have you forgotten about an american saying that " if you have nothing good to say the best policy is to be silent". or something along those lines. baket who gave you the right to be the arbiter of your so-called truth? ako kahit may kaunting sarcasm ang ibang sulat ko di naman insulto. nasa topic pa rin at hindi personal. baket ako pa ngayon ang may sala "for you and your tiny group's going out of line". ang kapal naman. LOL.


datu banco


What a senseless rebuttal --- :lol:

A nostalgia for Spain
HINDSIGHT By F Sionil Jose
The Philippine STAR 02/04/2007

Authentic Though Not Exotic–Essays On Filipino Identity

By Fernando Zialcita

Ateneo de Manila University Press, 340pp

It takes a bourgeois Manileño with almost no roots in the lower classes, city-bred and city-smart, to write so knowingly about the Filipino – who he is, what he is, and perhaps, where he is headed. A doctorate in social anthropology helps, but not much. The trained eye, the capacity to understand those nuances left by history, geography, religion, and how they shaped the Filipino identity – these are what Fernando Zialcita abundantly shows in this book.

The shaping of the Filipino continues to this very day and so, too, this country that became a modern state before its disparate peoples were blended together to form a nation. Will Filipinos ever blend? Or will the Philippines fragment as, indeed, other older states in Europe and elsewhere have already fragmented?

How is a nation created?

The artist creates myths to ennoble a people; the scholar deconstructs the myths to expose the bones. Both artist and scholar serve functions, not only as they see themselves or reality, but in exploring the unending contradiction of life itself. I am for the mythmaker for as long as his myths help in the social cohesion of a people. Who can find, for instance, the proof that George Washington really did chop down that cherry tree and wouldn’t lie about it? Who could verily state that he saw William Tell shoot an arrow at the apple on top of his son’s head? Who really believes that the Japanese are born out of Amaterasu, the sun god?

So, too, the Code of Kalantiao, which purports to show that ancient Filipinos were moral, never really existed; and that sterling woman warrior, Princess Urduja – was she a real historical figure?

Zialcita insinuates answers to timeless questions about culture change. He also adds to what several students of our history have said before – Nick Joaquin, Benito F. Legarda Jr., Alfredo Roces and students of architecture like Fr. Rodrigo Perez III. He enlarges and deepens their perceptions, and in the process, has come up with some lucid explanations as to how certain misconceptions have become conventional knowledge.

Filipinos want to glorify the barong tagalog as a racial reaction against the Spaniards who tucked in their shirts. But Zialcita says that never really happened. The proof of the pudding, it is often said, is in the eating. Do such myths benefit a people or do they negate their sense of worth? If myths do not negate a community or a nation, then let them be.

Zialcita brings Marxism into his discourse with probing insights. He is right in assuming that in the study of Filipino society and why Filipinos are poor, Marx does not provide all the answers; that Filipinos interested in changing this society should go beyond Marx.

Well said, but this does not mean Marx is completely irrelevant now. Wealth means power and power has to be translated, not just in the distribution of wealth itself, but in the provision of justice. In this global economy, development is the basis of wealth and to achieve it, it is imperative for a government to fuel the engines of growth, bringing forth the fullest use of resources – not just material wealth itself but the wealth that is not materially measured – the wealth of culture of a people united in their energies, in their vision, and most of all in their commitment to the country – the sense of nation which, alas, is missing in this country today.

Who will be the nation builders? Who else but those Filipinos willing to sacrifice – as Zialcita himself has indicated – in the upper classes of society willing to recognize the value and contribution of the masa?

In those 300 years that the Spaniards were in the Philippines, they intermarried with the Indios but not as much as they did in South America, in Mexico particularly. Countries like Chile and Argentina are basically European – and in a large country like Peru, the elite is white, not Indian. Brazil has a large black population and Portuguese descendants.

Mexicans say they are mestizos with some basis in fact. Mexico, like Peru, had a civilization of notable sophistication and strength when the Spaniards arrived – the Aztecs and the Incas had large cities, advanced science, particularly in astronomy where they excelled. Not so many Spaniards came to dominate the Philippines because of the distance from Spain. Spanish was not taught to the natives on the scale that it was in South America; hence, Spanish became the lingua franca of that continent.

We are not all mestizos as Zialcita claims, although there were many notable Creoles who were in the vanguard of the revolution against Spain. If this so-called mixing of Spanish blood with the native breed is quantified, what would clearly show is that the dilution was not all that widespread, although, in the end, the higher up the social and political ladder, the whiter one became – Spanish white, not American white, because the American colonizers did not stay long enough. This ratio is changing, though, for the elite is slowly but surely being diluted by Chinese yellow.

And the Malay brown?

The weakness of so many studies on the nature of societies is that they are based on history, religion, geography and all those anthropological constructs, which the economists consider micro. They have very little consideration for the greater influence by what Marxists or other scholars interested in the formation of nations would highlight – power, economic strength, which, in the long run, is the ultimate shaper of societies.

It is not the manner of cooking, for instance, that is studied, but the why of it – why certain countries have such sophisticated cuisines. It is because of the existence of powerful regimes, monarchical dynasties, which dictate such refinements – the imperial court of China, the datus, the kings and their desire for more finesse, comfort and luxury.

In architecture, it is the power of the colonizers, the rulers, which dictates what the structures should be. Take for instance the nipa hut – it is the power of the landlord, the encomiendero, which demanded that the nipa hut be light, moveable, cheap, so that the peasant could easily build one if the landlord ordered him to move.

It is when we peruse such elements that we come to the crucial question of our laggard development, why our government is corrupt, why Filipinos are poor.

Zialcita concludes that we should have stronger ties with Mexico, the South American countries and, inferentially, Spain. Again, nostalgia for Spanish colonialism. Sure, we should have better relationships with these countries, but we are in Southeast Asia, hostage to developments here and to the hegemonic ambitions of China and, of course, the shadow of the United States.

I cannot see any economic or even cultural reasons for us to strengthen ties with Mexico or with the countries of South America other than nostalgia. It is with our immediate neighbors that we should build such ties, particularly Indonesia, and of course with the economic behemoths like Japan, South Korea, India, and the Middle East countries on whom we are dependent on oil. And there is that specter hovering over us – the reality of all Southeast Asia being Sinicized in the future.

Spanish, for all the advantages it gives, is important, but not as important as English, which has become the lingua franca of the world. Forget Tagalog – it is not as important as English, which makes us all equal. In the first place, whether we like it or not, it has become a real national language through actual usage. It is English that must be polished, for it is our window to the world.

Just the same, Zialcita’s essay is a most illuminating examination of Filipino culture as compared to such rash conclusions of an even greater writer like Nick Joaquin who once declared that we have a tradition of "smallness." Tradition? It is the condition imposed on all poor societies, in Africa, in Southeast Asia, in the entire Third World where people buy tingi, whether it is cigarettes, bread or other basic commodities.

It is always exhilarating for us to examine what our culture is, its origins, its uniqueness, because as Zialcita so eloquently illustrated, we have so many things to be proud of.

But let us now go into some basics. The logic of colonialism is exploitation. Whether it is propelled by whatever ideology – to make the world "safe" for democracy, to spread civilization or Christianity – the white man’s burden, whatever sugar-coated objective it is, is driven by this logic. Therefore, colonialism by any name is immoral.

Reading Zialcita’s excellent exposition, as with some of the well-researched discourses of our Hispanophiles, I get an uneasy feeling that this excellent book is one more apologia for Spanish colonialism.

The colonized intellectual must first free himself, his mind most of all, from the subterfuges of the colonizer. He must recover the pristine self even if this means, as Nick Joaquin once charged, "to be an Igorot" – as if being one is to be stigmatized. Start from the mud at our feet, from mythic incense, the life-giving impulse of the cosmos, and from this purity, recognize the inputs of history, all the precious elements that contribute to the building of a nation.

Only when the colonized has achieved this innate freedom will he then be able to assume his true identity. Otherwise, his thinking will always be a monotonous echo of the colonizer’s dulcet spiel.

So it goes today: our modern ilustrados have yet to free themselves from prisons of the past, from the chains of colonialism, particularly the domestic variety. Until they recognize this bondage and oppose it, we will continue to wallow in blissful ignorance, and worse, in the muck of spiritual poverty left by the ghosts of colonialism.


http://philstar.com/philstar/LIFESTYLE200702043706.htm

according to this article by a literary writer whom i admire, that in order to recover "the pristine self" one must become "the igorot." in that case, there is no need to become filipinos. for in order to become the way as it has been we must get rid of the cultural forces that has shaped the modern inhabitants of the philippines. there is no need for us to become one nation if the object of authenticity is to retrieve that "lost purity". maybe martinez is right when he proposed the idea in his book that we should form our own separate countries to go back to our "roots." the only thing that holds filipinos together is the hispanization present in a majority of lowlander filipinos. if any colonialism is inexcusable then tagalog colonialism of other nations must also not be excused. i disagree with the philstar article writer's conclusion of dr. zialcita's book on cutlure and identity because his utopian conclusion could lead only to the dismemberment of our country.


datubcno

^^ The literary writer whom you admire did not say stop at "the igorot" and be content with that "pristine" state. Indeed, that's only the starting point... start from the mud at our feet, ... and from this purity, recognize the inputs of history, all the precious elements that contribute to the building of a nation. Inputs, precious elements... to me these pertain to the various forces that have exerted influence and contributed to the development of our current Filipino culture and identity... be those forces Spanish, American, Chinese, etc.

^^ The literary writer whom you admire did not say stop at "the igorot" and be content with that "pristine" state. Indeed, that's only the starting point... start from the mud at our feet, ... and from this purity, recognize the inputs of history, all the precious elements that contribute to the building of a nation. Inputs, precious elements... to me these pertain to the various forces that have exerted influence and contributed to the development of our current Filipino culture and identity... be those forces Spanish, American, Chinese, etc.

i have no disagreement with that point. i support the idea that nation building from a confluence of colonial experiences involves the discarding of the colonizers vices and strengthening their inherited virtues along the way. but we also have to recognize the truth that our pre-filipino ancestors have never been a single nation. that the filipino as a national identity with a common feature called a national culture did not yet exist. this too is the beginning.

for they were separate cultures. they were many nations. each followed their own destiny and answered to the call of their own leaders. they were as diverse as the native american nations. that was the background before they were forced by history to understand they were in the same boat as a result of hispanization.

the hispanization of the lowland cultures was the start of sharing a common history. it served as a bridge among our diverse nations to form a single community. thats why its significant much more than that of the other foreign influences.

i agree with the notion that our independence and with it the concept of one nation has been galvanized by the the katipunan movement first started out by the tagalogs. that's why the filipino concept is born which covered all the inhabitants of the philippine archipelago. what i dont agree is that being filipino simply means being like a tagalog.

we do have common behavioral features and institutional organizations shared by a majority of lowlanders that emerged. the territorial and political structures that are found today in the form of a barrio, town and province owe its origin directly to the spanish influence. the celebrations and rituals of each community have been fused with catholic rites that mixed with our primal cultures.

in that sense i dont think anything has been lost. the precious elements that constitute our character is still there. thats why we are not an islamic culture like indonesia. or a buddhist kingdom like thailand. that fusion or hybridization is our own unique civilization.


although its not politically correct we have to understand that spanish colonialism inadvertedly lead the way to the creation of the filipino state. while chinese influence did not and neither did american influence. when the literary writer whom i revered wrote that the book "authentic but not exotic" was written by a "spanish apologist" i was disappointed. for him the precious elements of our nations character has been compromised in some way because of the hispanic influence.

instead of taking it as a study done on the field by a social scientist whose results were based on the behavioural patterns found in filipino culture. the reaction was typical. that its about spanish colonialism. i disagree. after reading the book i did not come away feeling that something has been falsified in the culture. i came away with the opposite result. that the genius of our people is to retain our native elements with the hispanic graft while being transformed as a single nation.


datu bancao

Bump! :colgate:

i dont think we need a national language just to be united. many countries do not have national language, what they have are official languages. south africa has more than 10. while belgium has 2 and switzerland and singapore has 4.

medium of intruction should be in the local language.

kung sugbuanon, kinahanglan sugbuanon pud ang gamiton sa magturudlo sa eskwelahan ug dili tagalog kay unsaoin pa nato pakasabot sa mga gipantudlo kung nagkalisud na tag sabot sa sinultiang tagalog. kahinumdum nalang nuon ko sa una. naay tagalog nangutana sa bisaya "napagod ka?" nitanaw pud ang bisaya sa iyang panit ug nitangdo pud. askang galawgawa. abi man diay sa bisaya na nangutana ang tagalog kung nangitom ba sya sa pagpinabuwad sa adlaw.

kun samarnon it tawo, angay la nga samarnon liwat it kayakan hit mga magturudlo kay dili mangga it harumamay pagsabot han gintutudlo kun nagkukuri na hira pagsabot han ginyayakan han magturudlo.

there are advantages in learning many languages. but i see no need to make a certain language a national language for unity's sake. unity must start in our hearts and in our minds. and not in external factors like language. of course language can link two people. knowing many languages will enable you to gain more knowledge because you are not confined to english webpages, magazines and movies. and it would also enable you to chat with other non-english speaking people around the globe, and exchange news and views. but i dont think a national language is necessary for national unity.

As for me, I will just allow Tagalog to become the national language although Im Cebuano. :ohno:

Over the years since Pres. Quezon's time, Tagalog has already taken its root from Batanes down to Sulu so there is no stopping it anymore. Let us just allow it to take its course because every Filipino will eventually learn and speak it not only because it is being taught in schools but also because it is the language of the influential media which is based in Manila.

I sound funny when I speak Tagalog but I dont mind it because my Cebuano tongue will always reveal itself but I consider knowing another language an advantage for as long as it doesn't threaten my own tongue to extinction.

As for me, I will just allow Tagalog to become the national language although Im Cebuano. :ohno:

Over the years since Pres. Quezon's time, Tagalog has already taken its root from Batanes down to Sulu so there is no stopping it anymore. Let us just allow it to take its course because every Filipino will eventually learn and speak it not only because it is being taught in schools but also because it is the language of the influential media which is based in Manila.

I sound funny when I speak Tagalog but I dont mind it because my Cebuano tongue will always reveal itself but I consider knowing another language an advantage for as long as it doesn't threaten my own tongue to extinction.

ang_bantayanon,

let's face it, we all sound funny when we speak other dialects or languages. and that's ok. the bottom line for me is i try to LEARN other dialects or language and the culture that comes with them.

salamat!

DatuPanot

As for me, I will just allow Tagalog to become the national language although Im Cebuano. :ohno:

Over the years since Pres. Quezon's time, Tagalog has already taken its root from Batanes down to Sulu so there is no stopping it anymore. Let us just allow it to take its course because every Filipino will eventually learn and speak it not only because it is being taught in schools but also because it is the language of the influential media which is based in Manila.

I sound funny when I speak Tagalog but I dont mind it because my Cebuano tongue will always reveal itself but I consider knowing another language an advantage for as long as it doesn't threaten my own tongue to extinction.

They called the national language Filipino, with Tagalog as its base. I think it means that eventually, important or oftenly used words from other dialects will become part of the national language. It also has its own rules, very different from Tagalog or the other languages ( or dialects ) although we will find it really hard in years to come to spell correctly the words that find their way into the national language. Just think of how many alphabets there are. Anyway, a lot of Cebuano words are already part of the national language.

I only know 3, Tagalog, Spanish, and what we're speaking right now, and that's all. I'm humble, so I'm not gonna make a grand list and exaggerate listing languages with which I only know a few words like other pinoys do, hehe just kidding :)

it says "speak" so i only vote for the language i speak. but the language i understand are many.

speak fluently = 5 (leytenhon-waray, sugbuanon, tagalog, english, hokkien including taiwanese variation "taigu".)

intermediary level = 2 (ilonggo, samarnon-waray).

basic = more than 2 (surigaonon, mandarin and many more..)

learning to speak = more than 1 (sign language and many more to come..)

When I asked to be tested for Pampango comprehension @ the Philippine Embassy (for college credit) they straight up told me that it was a dialect, and that i'd have to be tested for Tagalog.

No way is Kapampangan just a slight variation of Tagalog. Web of lies.

^ Imagine that. Whoever that Philippine embassy employee is should take another foreign service exam test. He/she does not even know the difference between a dialect and a language. You are right @Ira, Pampanggo is not a dialect of Tagalog but a unique language in itself.

it must be because they were taught that tagalog is the only language of the country and all the rest are dialects.

i found something very interesting, check the site:

http://www.geocities.com/csundita/filipiniana/rplanguages.html

since i was born and raised in cebu, my first language would be cebuano. then i moved to iloilo for high school, which gave me the chance to learn ilonngo. like all filipinos, i know tagalog, since it is taught at school from grade one till some years in college. english of course, coz it's the medium of instruction. right now i'm learning spanish. i once had chinese classes in grade school, but those lessons didn't stick to me though. haha.

just so you guys know, cebuano is a language with its own iso number. i can't remember the code though. i once took the toefl, and they had cebuano as one of the languages spoken.

1st Language: English
Then: Tagalog (Morong, Rizal dialect)
Then: Spanish (Studying IB Spanish)

bisaya ra tawn...

can speak, TagaLog, Cebuano (Visayan), Pangasinense, BikoLano & English... and sometimes i speak in Filipino (LoL) coz i don't know where i get the words i'm using i.e., dira, pagarpar, kubyertos http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q83/RCXsickboy/smiLeys/sad.gif

human

english: australian dialect? lol
filipino: tagalog... i can understand some visayan too but not much

solo hablo tagalo, inglés y castellano... deseo aprender mandarin y frances :banana:

I'm not exactly sure where I stand on which language should be the national language. I think it should probably not be called Filipino, even if it is Tagalog that is trying to be more inclusive of other language groups, the fact that the language is called Filipinos implies that there is a historical Filipino race, which then leads to people saying that a mestizo is a half-Filipino, which people naturally already do in the Philippines and have done, and this is of course from American brainwashing and the view that Filipino is an exclusive race of people, which it's not, because it's an ethnicity, which of course would imply that all Filipinos are exclusively of Malay origin, which is not true, and this system also implies that mestizos are not Filipino, they're only part Filipino, with the word Filipino referring to the country's Malay blood, but it doesn't make sense because everybody is already mixed diba? I always hear Filipinos say that a mestizo is half-Filipino, and that makes me cringe because of the fact that it promotes lack of pride in being Filipino, because then people can say oh so and so is not really Filipino because he's only half, the rest is Spanish, but saying that a mestizo is half-Filipino is not correct in itself. I always said to my nieces and nephews, a mestizo is Malay and Spanish, or Malay and (European), but the combination is what makes a Filipino.

I do think, however, that the word "negrito" used to describe the Aeta tribe should be taken out of usage forever, just because it's not a technical term because the Spanish just used it as colloquial word to describe the Aeta's apperance. But years later, and just because a few Americans, who like many Filipinos, didn't grow up speaking Spanish therefore did not understand the implicit racist meanings of the word "negrito", listed it down as a name for the group, all of a sudden it's an accepted technical term. A Spanish racial slur is an accepted technical term for one of the most valuable tribes in the Philippines. ?!?!?!?!?!? You could say the same thing about Chabacano.

I'd say that even if I'm not exactly sure whether Spanish should be reinstated as a national language, it would still be enough to make a good reason for the Philippines to learn Spanish again, if only for the sake of making Filipinos aware of (which right now, the majority are not) and correcting these terms.

Actually if you read many posts back, there was a historical article on how Tagalog was chosen to be the base of Filipino. Mind you apparently all languages of the main linguistic groups and I think even Spanish was considered. AND the committee was made up of various credible leaders from all the main linguistic groups. Their decision is what we have today, that it was most sensible to use Tagalag as the base for a national language. I'm sure a lot of the arguments we hear today have in some way been debated within this committee over 80 years ago.

I think it really depends on the upbringing of the individual, and from what class they came from. In my experience, whether Spanish-speaking or not, the upper class in the Philippines tend to carry more Spanish norms, manners, and customs, not necessarily just in the language, but more in the way the family is run, and how they speak, which is, it's the norm to be tactful and not too loud and boisterous, to be proper, and most important difference I notice, is to not speak too loudly, as in the sound of your voice. The farther you go away from this class, the less hispanized the people tend to be, they speak really loud and boisterous, lack manners and delicadeza sometimes, (but that's also a class structure thing common in other Spanish countries as well, the more educated tend to have a more refined way of "being") and this is what I've encountered growing up the way I did, and then meeting other Filipinos from different classes (which I didn't even know existed until just a few years ago) I found that the "lower" you go down the social chain, the less Spanish influences there are. Just my observation, please don't kill me with your words, hehe :)

For example, those tourists that visit the Philippines walk around, and they observe from what they see, and the majority of Filipinos don't speak Spanish, and that's the truth, but I watch a lot of Spanish TV, and if you translate everything that they say on it, on any show, comedy, telenovela, whatever, into Tagalog, you basically have Filipino television as far as the way people act, which I always said, even in our magazine, that that's why the telenovelas became so big, because Filipinos are looking at something that they THINK is a different culture, the Spanish culture, not realizing it's deeply embedded into their own, but Latinos don't realize that because of course, they don't speak Tagalog, so you have to take foreigners' opinion of the Philippines with a grain of salt and try to understand from where they're coming from, and not be so full of colonial mentality either that you base your sense of self based on what THEY think of us. Filipinos tend to do that a lot, which is embedded into our culture since in our culture, a person's worth is based on what the community feels about them, but me, I don't give a damn what they think about us, we all shouldn't. :)

Hehe no killing going on here, all opinions are welcome to be heard.:)

I think your observation in the first paragraph coincides with what I'm pointing out actually. I have a very wide range of friends and can actually see how differentiated this is even among the "elite". So if you go farther down the socio-economic ladder where the lowest groups may not even have been touched by even Spanish influence there really is a huge divergence in how Hispanic the local culture of the place or group is. Actually it has been noted that worldwide, in Developing countries in particular, that a wordwide elite of the top echelons of their society had much more in common than their own countrymen who are further down the chain. If you look at regionwide (Asia) influences, you'll see the elite watching much more cable and hence having a hugely different media experience from the masses. Just one of the many annecdotes. This goes further down the line with things like food tastes, education, vacation preferences etc. I actually trace this down to even more practical matters like Voting patterns. Where in the Middle class elite of this country constantly look down on the masa for their voting preference for lets say ERAP over what they perceive to be the "correct" choice. While this is an all together different conversation, it's interesting to debunk this conventional thinking as foolish urges of an uneducated voting populace with that of a more practical rational outlook that underlines their thinking. With regards telenovelas and it's acceptability, when I first saw the popularity of Marimar, I initially thought that the common bonds with Hispanic countries were basically what was at work. It just made sense. What blew me away was the extreme popularity of Meteor Garden the Taiwanese Soap, this made me think as to how close exactly where our own commond bonds compared to a Hispanic Paradigm versus a Confucian based one. This actually made me wonder if this was a "rational" choice, that it was not neccesarily the commonality or identification with Hispanic Settings or Asian Values that drove or underpined the popularity of these pop culture representations with the masses but perhaps basically just a good story line and our common humanity.

Hehe no killing going on here, all opinions are welcome to be heard.:)

I think your observation in the first paragraph coincides with what I'm pointing out actually. I have a very wide range of friends and can actually see how differentiated this is even among the "elite". So if you go farther down the socio-economic ladder where the lowest groups may not even have been touched by even Spanish influence there really is a huge divergence in how Hispanic the local culture of the place or group is. Actually it has been noted that worldwide, in Developing countries in particular, that a wordwide elite of the top echelons of their society had much more in common than their own countrymen who are further down the chain. If you look at regionwide (Asia) influences, you'll see the elite watching much more cable and hence having a hugely different media experience from the masses. Just one of the many annecdotes. This goes further down the line with things like food tastes, education, vacation preferences etc. I actually trace this down to even more practical matters like Voting patterns. Where in the Middle class elite of this country constantly look down on the masa for their voting preference for lets say ERAP over what they perceive to be the "correct" choice. While this is an all together different conversation, it's interesting to debunk this conventional thinking as foolish urges of an uneducated voting populace with that of a more practical rational outlook that underlines their thinking. With regards telenovelas and it's acceptability, when I first saw the popularity of Marimar, I initially thought that the common bonds with Hispanic countries were basically what was at work. It just made sense. What blew me away was the extreme popularity of Meteor Garden the Taiwanese Soap, this made me think as to how close exactly where our own commond bonds compared to a Hispanic Paradigm versus a Confucian based one. This actually made me wonder if this was a "rational" choice, that it was not neccesarily the commonality or identification with Hispanic Settings or Asian Values that drove or underpined the popularity of these pop culture representations with the masses but perhaps basically just a good story line and our common humanity.

Mind you, I was already aware of and well educated about the committee who came up with the language as Filipino, as far as the telenovelas, I think it was probably a combination of both. The story lines of Latin telenovelas caught all Filipinos' eyes of all levels, the elite could relate to it from their connections with the Spanish culture, and of course, Thalia enchanted the masses with her visits here and her Caucasian features, and especially it caught the attention of the masses amazed to see white faces speaking Tagalog which is something that in the history of the Philippines had never been done before Marimar aired in 1994, and the stories of the Chinese shows caught the masses eyes' and with the light skin and desired features of it's leads, while the elite Chinese could of course be proud of it and watch it as well as it's their heritage.

I agree about how the masses usually differ in their voting preferences with those of the A-B classes, but as far as politicians, I don't know if I could trust any of them, whether a simple high school dropout like some have been or even those educated in Harvard, I don't know if I could trust any of them, but we should not get into talking about politics in this forum, it'll just become stressful and depressing for everybody :)

Hehe no killing going on here, all opinions are welcome to be heard.:)

I think your observation in the first paragraph coincides with what I'm pointing out actually. I have a very wide range of friends and can actually see how differentiated this is even among the "elite". So if you go farther down the socio-economic ladder where the lowest groups may not even have been touched by even Spanish influence there really is a huge divergence in how Hispanic the local culture of the place or group is. Actually it has been noted that worldwide, in Developing countries in particular, that a wordwide elite of the top echelons of their society had much more in common than their own countrymen who are further down the chain. If you look at regionwide (Asia) influences, you'll see the elite watching much more cable and hence having a hugely different media experience from the masses. Just one of the many annecdotes. This goes further down the line with things like food tastes, education, vacation preferences etc. I actually trace this down to even more practical matters like Voting patterns. Where in the Middle class elite of this country constantly look down on the masa for their voting preference for lets say ERAP over what they perceive to be the "correct" choice. While this is an all together different conversation, it's interesting to debunk this conventional thinking as foolish urges of an uneducated voting populace with that of a more practical rational outlook that underlines their thinking. With regards telenovelas and it's acceptability, when I first saw the popularity of Marimar, I initially thought that the common bonds with Hispanic countries were basically what was at work. It just made sense. What blew me away was the extreme popularity of Meteor Garden the Taiwanese Soap, this made me think as to how close exactly where our own commond bonds compared to a Hispanic Paradigm versus a Confucian based one. This actually made me wonder if this was a "rational" choice, that it was not neccesarily the commonality or identification with Hispanic Settings or Asian Values that drove or underpined the popularity of these pop culture representations with the masses but perhaps basically just a good story line and our common humanity.

there are universal values shared by all human beings. human emotions such as pain, joy or anger are felt the same way in any culture. that's the theme in soap operas. the melodrama. however, you missed the significance of national character that binds a state together. or what makes a nation agree in being a nation. that's the point about the language issue. this is why spanish and its cultural manifestation such as the indigenized spanish words in our austronesian languages and chavacano are important in our national culture. because these too are vehicles of our identities and of our national values. one cannot be a nation if one doesnt hold dear what everybody acknowledges is a part of them. our identity and our country are expressed to others out of collective memory. a character that has been shaped by our own historical experiences. therefore our outlook on the world are colored by it. that's the essence of what makes a filipino a filipino or an american an american. the similarity you've alluded dramatizes human emotions. culture which is the conveyor of those emotions are not similar. from this end taiwanese soap operas, as compared with latin american cultures and filipino culture, because both cultures come from the same historical experience of spanish colonization, show a huge difference.

datu bancao

there are universal values shared by all human beings. human emotions such as pain, joy or anger are felt the same way in any culture. that's the theme in soap operas. the melodrama. however, you missed the significance of national character that binds a state together. or what makes a nation agree in being a nation. that's the point about the language issue. this is why spanish and its cultural manifestation such as the indigenized spanish words in our austronesian languages and chavacano are important in our national culture. because these too are vehicles of our identities and of our national values. one cannot be a nation if one doesnt hold dear what everybody acknowledges is a part of them. our identity and our country are expressed to others out of collective memory. a character that has been shaped by our own historical experiences. therefore our outlook on the world are colored by it. that's the essence of what makes a filipino a filipino or an american an american. the similarity you've alluded dramatizes human emotions. culture which is the conveyor of those emotions are not similar. from this end taiwanese soap operas, as compared with latin american cultures and filipino culture, because both cultures come from the same historical experience of spanish colonization, show a huge difference.

datu bancao

that's true, i've noticed that also, i've watched some chinese shows, and there are less similarities with the Filipino culture (unless you're Chinese-Filipino) in those shows than with the telenovelas, which have so much in common with Filipino culture, don't even have space to explain it all.

that's true, i've watched some chinese shows, and there are less similarities with the Filipino culture in those shows than with the telenovelas, which have so much in common with Filipino culture, don't even have space to explain it all.

I guessed you have to watch MORE Chinese shows.:)

Seriously, you can not just judge or put any conclusion on your findings by watching things on the media. You have to be THERE, which means you need to spend a lot of time in the Philippines to observed what kind of culture we have right now.

Ever wonder why young Filipino kids are into those Korean, Taiwanese or Japanese TV shows now?

I guessed you have to watch MORE Chinese shows.:)

Seriously, you can not just judge or put any conclusion on your findings by watching things on the media. You have to be THERE, which means you need to spend a lot of time in the Philippines to observed what kind of culture we have right now.

Ever wonder why young Filipino kids are into those Korean, Taiwanese or Japanese TV shows now?


Filipino kids are into those Korean and Taiwanese telenovelas because typical filipinos see them as good looking, while japanese animes are highly entertaining for kids. In fact, Japanese animes are also being aired in Spanish speaking countries. You know Filipinos, they always love the "kilig-factor" in tv shows which has always been part of korean series. C'mon, everything, (from books, media internet etc.) agrees that Filipino culture is more of Latin than Asian. What are you trying to insist in this matter? that filipino culture is more of chinese like you, when in fact, we were never colonized by China and the Philippines has the least population of Chinese immigrants in S.E. Asia? Wag kang magbulag-bulagan please...

Here's something I found while skimming through Rizal's book "El Filibusterismo" It's on page 60-61 of the English version as translated by Charles Derbyshire (1912)

This will probably get someone's attention.

[60]

“Ah, youth is ever inexperienced and dreamy, always running after the butterflies and flowers! You have united, so that by your efforts you may bind your fatherland to Spain with garlands of roses when in reality you are forging upon it chains harder than the diamond! You ask for equal rights, the Hispanization of your customs, and you don’t see that what you are begging for is suicide, the destruction of your nationality, the annihilation of your fatherland, the consecration of tyranny! What will you be in the future? A people without character, a nation without liberty—everything you have will be borrowed, even your very defects! You beg for Hispanization, and do not pale with shame when they deny it you! And even if they should grant it to you, what then—what have you gained? At best, a country of pronunciamentos, a land of civil wars, a republic of the greedy and the malcontents, like some of the republics of South America! To what are you tending now, with your instruction in Castilian, a pretension that would be ridiculous were it not for its deplorable consequences! You wish to add one more language to the forty odd that are spoken in the islands, so that you may understand one another less and less.”

“On the contrary,” replied Basilio, “if the knowledge of Castilian may bind us to the government, in exchange it may also unite the islands among themselves.”

[61]

“A gross error!” rejoined Simoun. “You are letting yourselves be deceived by big words and never go to the bottom of things to examine the results in their final analysis. Spanish will never be the general language of the country, the people will never talk it, because the conceptions of their brains and the feelings of their hearts cannot be expressed in that language—each people has its own tongue, as it has its own way of thinking! What are you going to do with Castilian, the few of you who will speak it? Kill off your own originality, subordinate your thoughts to other brains, and instead of freeing yourselves, make yourselves slaves indeed! Nine-tenths of those of you who pretend to be enlightened are renegades to your country! He among you who talks that language neglects his own in such a way that he neither writes nor understands it, and how many have I not seen who pretended not to know a single word of it! But fortunately, you have an imbecile government! While Russia enslaves Poland by forcing the Russian language upon it, while Germany prohibits French in the conquered provinces, your government strives to preserve yours, and you in return, a remarkable people under an incredible government, you are trying to despoil yourselves of your own nationality! One and all you forget that while a people preserves its language, it preserves the marks of its liberty, as a man preserves his independence while he holds to his own way of thinking. Language is the thought of the peoples. Luckily, your independence is assured; human passions are looking out for that!”

Simoun paused and rubbed his hand over his forehead. The waning moon was rising and sent its faint light down through the branches of the trees, and with his white locks and severe features, illuminated from below by the lantern...

Past is past... Let us all move on... Don't hate the Spaniards, the Americans or the Japanese anymore...

Filipinos acquired Latin culture but this does not mean that we've become latins . We're still ASIANS and we still possess many asian values..

I guessed you have to watch MORE Chinese shows.:)

Seriously, you can not just judge or put any conclusion on your findings by watching things on the media. You have to be THERE, which means you need to spend a lot of time in the Philippines to observed what kind of culture we have right now.

Ever wonder why young Filipino kids are into those Korean, Taiwanese or Japanese TV shows now?

I was there, I stayed there for over a year in 2005, you yourself shouldn't make judgements about me, or automatically conclude that I'm making judgements based on lack of information when you don't know me personally.

And I'm basing it on my experience of growing up in a Filipino-Spanish family, and the similarities I see in the telenovelas from Latin America. I think I'm more qualified to know about Spanish culture more than you are, since you are Chinese-Filipino, while you probably are more qualified about that aspect of the Filipino culture since you lived it.

Don't judge me either when you don't know me, that just shows that you're being a hypocrite, I don't judge you.

Filipino kids are into those Korean and Taiwanese telenovelas because typical filipinos see them as good looking, while japanese animes are highly entertaining for kids. In fact, Japanese animes are also being aired in Spanish speaking countries. You know Filipinos, they always love the "kilig-factor" in tv shows which has always been part of korean series. C'mon, everything, (from books, media internet etc.) agrees that Filipino culture is more of Latin than Asian. What are you trying to insist in this matter? that filipino culture is more of chinese like you, when in fact, we were never colonized by China and the Philippines has the least population of Chinese immigrants in S.E. Asia? Wag kang magbulag-bulagan please...

agreed, well put my friend

Hi Isabel! :wave:

@Tsinoy: I just to add that our fellow Asians, especially Malaysia and Indonesia are also hooked on mexicanovelas though it's obvious that Latin America doesn't share the same culture with these Moslem countries...By this matter, Would you say that malaysians or indonesians love watching latinovelas because of "cultural ties" with Latin America?

there are universal values shared by all human beings. human emotions such as pain, joy or anger are felt the same way in any culture. that's the theme in soap operas. the melodrama. however, you missed the significance of national character that binds a state together. or what makes a nation agree in being a nation. that's the point about the language issue. this is why spanish and its cultural manifestation such as the indigenized spanish words in our austronesian languages and chavacano are important in our national culture. because these too are vehicles of our identities and of our national values. one cannot be a nation if one doesnt hold dear what everybody acknowledges is a part of them. our identity and our country are expressed to others out of collective memory. a character that has been shaped by our own historical experiences. therefore our outlook on the world are colored by it. that's the essence of what makes a filipino a filipino or an american an american. the similarity you've alluded dramatizes human emotions. culture which is the conveyor of those emotions are not similar. from this end taiwanese soap operas, as compared with latin american cultures and filipino culture, because both cultures come from the same historical experience of spanish colonization, show a huge difference.

datu bancao


Filipino kids are into those Korean and Taiwanese telenovelas because typical filipinos see them as good looking, while japanese animes are highly entertaining for kids. In fact, Japanese animes are also being aired in Spanish speaking countries. You know Filipinos, they always love the "kilig-factor" in tv shows which has always been part of korean series. C'mon, everything, (from books, media internet etc.) agrees that Filipino culture is more of Latin than Asian. What are you trying to insist in this matter? that filipino culture is more of chinese like you, when in fact, we were never colonized by China and the Philippines has the least population of Chinese immigrants in S.E. Asia? Wag kang magbulag-bulagan please...

Actually my point has less to do with reinforcing the idea that there is cultural affinity with Taiwan as manifested by taiwanese soap popularity but by pointing out that it was basically a "good" program prefered by it's audience. It's rational.

Similarly while I'm sure some people think those F4 guys were good looking, I don't think thats the primary reason as our filipino standard of goodlooking has always been the mestizo (A sure sign of the Spanish heritage or more accurately colonial heritage that you speak of).

The Philippines is a young nation with the idea being born with the death of Gomburza, at this point I still don't think there is a true agreement of it's definition as a nation (as can be seen in this thread :)), hence it takes a little time to get it into that collective memory. This is what makes me wonder about how spanish the culture really is. Obviously if we look at our institutions the Catholic Church which is the strongest, at least in the christianized lowlands and cities, is definitely a gift from our Spanish Heritage, if there is one thing that differentiates us from Asia surely it is this. Yet dig a little deeper underneath and I really think a huge chunk of the "Hispanic Culture" is actually overlay. Of course language as an overlay is huge as it shapes the mind (as is your point), yet I don't know how much of it is integrated really into the culture as opposed to that which is basically technology. This is not to say there is no Hispanic Heritage just that I think our "Asianess" is very much discounted. (The same way our Americaness is also discounted; elections anyone?) If one looks at even the overlay of Islam in the south (and even with our neighbors in Malaysia and Indonesia) one can see the same thing too. I've often found it interesting in dealing with our Muslim brothers how much more Tausug, Maguindanao or Maranao they are before they are Muslim! In the end the basic values between pinoys in the north to muslim pinoys in the south and even to Sabah and beyond are much much more common than most people think.

We're pretty much still a work in progress and the base of the culture as currently identified starts with the Spanish, but I actually believe what is closer to the point of collective identity is actually World War 2 and Liberation. This common crucible of pain suffering and eventual deliverance marks the national psyche, and extends to all Pinoys not only lowland Christians but including our muslim brothers and other lumads and the like. Again I'm not saying there is no such thing as Hispanic Heritage, I'm just not sure it's as strong as people say it is, and as we evolve as a people (specially as we eventually move to being ASEANies) what parts will remain!

Filipino kids are into those Korean and Taiwanese telenovelas because typical filipinos see them as good looking, while japanese animes are highly entertaining for kids. In fact, Japanese animes are also being aired in Spanish speaking countries. You know Filipinos, they always love the "kilig-factor" in tv shows which has always been part of korean series. C'mon, everything, (from books, media internet etc.) agrees that Filipino culture is more of Latin than Asian. What are you trying to insist in this matter? that filipino culture is more of chinese like you, when in fact, we were never colonized by China and the Philippines has the least population of Chinese immigrants in S.E. Asia? Wag kang magbulag-bulagan please...

Get real also, I never mention anything about most Filipinos are influenced by Asian cultures. We are diversed and it is a fact that some of our kababayans don't even have a simple influence of Spanish culture.
Sure for more than 300 years we were Indios to the eyes of those conquistadores, and with different Asian cultures mixed in we are Filipinos.
Kung gusto mong maging Latino, walang pumipigil sa inyo.
sooSorry I don't mean to be magaspang on you, pareho lang tayong nag-graduate sa USTe at exempted kami sa Spanish 101 at 102 during those years dahil from grade school until high school meron kaming Spanish subjects. :lol:


@Tsinoy: I just to add that our fellow Asians, especially Malaysia and Indonesia are also hooked on mexicanovelas though it's obvious that Latin America doesn't share the same culture with these Moslem countries...By this matter, Would you say that malaysians or indonesians love watching latinovelas because of "cultural ties" with Latin America?


If the Malaysians and Indonesians started to copy those Mexicans and Venezuelans' way of life, then they are influenced. :lol:

As I said, it has nothing to do with what Filipinos are watching on TV or from other media. It is how they play their role in the society.

* I pass by a section of Mega-Mall a few years ago and young students are speaking Tagalog/Koreans, gaya gaya sa mga tele novelas. :nuts:

I was there, I stayed there for over a year in 2005, you yourself shouldn't make judgements about me, or automatically conclude that I'm making judgements based on lack of information when you don't know me personally.

And I'm basing it on my experience of growing up in a Filipino-Spanish family, and the similarities I see in the telenovelas from Latin America. I think I'm more qualified to know about Spanish culture more than you are, since you are Chinese-Filipino, while you probably are more qualified about that aspect of the Filipino culture since you lived it.

Don't judge me either when you don't know me, that just shows that you're being a hypocrite, I don't judge you.

I don't need to know you personally. But the way you react, you seems to be the one who judge people right on the spot.
There is no such thing as to be qualified to know about certain cultures. You just need to have one or be one.
My mother is almost pure Hispañola and growing up in a house that speak Spanish if they wanted to, I can hold my own about Spanish culture but still I care about what other cultures have brought me.

Isn't it that Rosalinda, a Mexican telenovela, still remains as the number one rated drama series in the Philippines?

@Isabel: Yeah. Even in soaps (here we go again!), the wealthy characters tend to sport more Spanish lines/expressions. However, English still predominates.

I don't need to know you personally. But the way you react, you seems to be the one who judge people right on the spot.
There is no such thing as to be qualified to know about certain cultures. You just need to have one or be one.
My mother is almost pure Hispañola and growing up in a house that speak Spanish if they wanted to, I can hold my own about Spanish culture but still I care about what other cultures have brought me.

Are you joking? You're the one who judged me first assuming I wasn't aware of what was going in Philippines entertainment, not even realizing that I visit the Philippines frequently. We both judged each other, we're both at fault, but you judged me first, and that's a fact because your reply came first with your false assumption about me. Listen, I'm not in the mood to get into an argument okay, so this ends now, okay? Tama na. GOD BLESS

Are you joking? You're the one who judged me first assuming I wasn't aware of what was going in Philippines entertainment, not even realizing that I visit the Philippines frequently. We both judged each other, we're both at fault, but you judged me first, and that's a fact because your reply came first with your false assumption about me. Listen, I'm not in the mood to get into an argument okay, so this ends now, okay? Tama na. GOD BLESS

I'm sorry if I stir some ire on you. We are just discussing and I never judge you or condemned you of anything.

In case we don't see each other here, good riddance also, you might think I'm gay if this discussion takes too long. :)

I think that Spanish has an undeserved reputation for being exclusive to the elite. On the contrary, if one were to look worldwide, Hispanic culture has been less about hacienderos luxuriating in their plantations, fat friars and bishops in palatial convents, and bemedalled caudillos. Since the middle of the 20th century, Hispanic culture has been at the cutting edge of the liberal, the revolutionary, the egalitarian... witness the phenomenon of Che, Eduardo Galleano, even to some extent Isabel Allende... proponents of a more equitable social order. Kahit sa ating sariling bansa, kung tingnan ninyo, karamihan ng popular na gamit ng wika at culturang Kastila ay hindi nahahanap sa mga maharlika na nag-aral sa Greenhills o Loyola Heights, kundi sa mga abang mga indio timawa, karamiha'y provinciano. Hindi ba't mas malaki ang proporcion ng mga salitang Kastila sa Visaya (huwag na natin isali ang Chavacano) kaysa sa Tagalog ng mga elitista sa Manila? Kahit sa mga pagpili ng libangan, makikita niyo na ang hilig ng mga anak-mayaman ay wushu o TKD, habang ang kanilang mas-abang mga kabayan ay tumatangkilik sa escrima o arnis, na may terminologia at tactica na hango mula sa wikang Espanol at escrima.

***Ungrammatical Spanish version of above follows below. Pls feel free to correct me.***

Creo que Espanol tienes un reputacion elitista que no mereces. Al contrario, que visteis a todo del mundo, puedes conocer que cultura Hispana no es de hacienderos avariciosos, frailes gordos, y caudillos dictatoriales. Desde ultimas decadas de siglo pasado, cultura Hispana era una cultura de liberalismo, egalitarianismo, y revolucion. Tienes Che, Eduardo Galleano, Isabel Allende… que escrivueran y lucheran para un orden social mas justo por todos. En nuestra pais tambien, quando los elitistas de Manila hablaron un Tagalog artificialmente purificado de Hispanismos, pero tambien imprenata de Ingles (paradoxicamente), sus hermanos provincianos hablaron dialectos significamente Hispanizado (por ejemplo, Visaya y Chavacano). Tambien deportes que ambos classes eligeron… los elitistas de Manila practicaron artes marciales como karate o TKD, quando sus hermanos humildes practicaron el arte de Escrima, que tienes terminología y tacticas derivada de la lengua y methodologia de Espanoles.

I think that Spanish has an undeserved reputation for being exclusive to the elite. On the contrary, if one were to look worldwide, Hispanic culture has been less about hacienderos luxuriating in their plantations, fat friars and bishops in palatial convents, and bemedalled caudillos. Since the middle of the 20th century, Hispanic culture has been at the cutting edge of the liberal, the revolutionary, the egalitarian... witness the phenomenon of Che, Eduardo Galleano, even to some extent Isabel Allende... proponents of a more equitable social order. Kahit sa ating sariling bansa, kung tingnan ninyo, karamihan ng popular na gamit ng wika at culturang Kastila ay hindi nahahanap sa mga maharlika na nag-aral sa Greenhills o Loyola Heights, kundi sa mga abang mga indio timawa, karamiha'y provinciano. Hindi ba't mas malaki ang proporcion ng mga salitang Kastila sa Visaya (huwag na natin isali ang Chavacano) kaysa sa Tagalog ng mga elitista sa Manila? Kahit sa mga pagpili ng libangan, makikita niyo na ang hilig ng mga anak-mayaman ay wushu o TKD, habang ang kanilang mas-abang mga kabayan ay tumatangkilik sa escrima o arnis, na may terminologia at tactica na hango mula sa wikang Espanol at escrima.

***Ungrammatical Spanish version of above follows below. Pls feel free to correct me.***

Creo que Espanol tienes un reputacion elitista que no mereces. Al contrario, que visteis a todo del mundo, puedes conocer que cultura Hispana no es de hacienderos avariciosos, frailes gordos, y caudillos dictatoriales. Desde ultimas decadas de siglo pasado, cultura Hispana era una cultura de liberalismo, egalitarianismo, y revolucion. Tienes Che, Eduardo Galleano, Isabel Allende… que escrivueran y lucheran para un orden social mas justo por todos. En nuestra pais tambien, quando los elitistas de Manila hablaron un Tagalog artificialmente purificado de Hispanismos, pero tambien imprenata de Ingles (paradoxicamente), sus hermanos provincianos hablaron dialectos significamente Hispanizado (por ejemplo, Visaya y Chavacano). Tambien deportes que ambos classes eligeron… los elitistas de Manila practicaron artes marciales como karate o TKD, quando sus hermanos humildes practicaron el arte de Escrima, que tienes terminología y tacticas derivada de la lengua y methodologia de Espanoles.

tama ka sa mga elitistang tagalog na gustong maghari-harian sa ating bansa. kinahihiya ko ang kapwa kong mga bisaya na sumuko at naging tagalista rin.

so successful is the propaganda against filipinos that they reject their own culture with undeserved passion.

rizal, bonifacio, aguinaldo etc were anti-spanish but they were not and had never been against the hispanization of the lowlander austronesian cultures that created the filipino. they didnt reject their fiestas, their religion, their hispanized names, they didnt used foreign usernames like tsinoy louman etc. they used spanish names. THEY USED THE LANGUAGE OF CERVANTES TO GALVANIZED A LIBERATION MOVEMENT FROM THE GET GO. sorry for the highlight. i agree with your points.

datu bancao

Tagalog-bashing again. :ohno: How can we forge national unity when you always revert to regional pride? Aren't we all Filipinos? Not all Tagalogs deny the Hispanic influence. It is deeply entrenched in the culture. But we do have other influences, too.

I agree with you Lili.

Racism and ethnocentrism such as Tagalog/Chinese bashing and ad hominem attacks is the name of the game in this thread. The underlying propaganda ultimately defeats the objective of this thread. Take some chill pills y'all folks. :lol:

Together with the chill pill take some happy pills too.

^^ Same here! :lol: I get tired of the constant attacks on fellow Filipinos. I know that Josepepe you have a more ballistic approach but I think its time to limit the Tagalog bashing because it does not help. I think we can compromise and have a better way of exchanging of information or opinions. :)

Racism and ethnocentrism such as Tagalog/Chinese bashing and ad hominem attacks is the name of the game in this thread. The underlying propaganda ultimately defeats the objective of this thread. Take some chill pills y'all folks. :lol:

Nothing really worse than a racist against own kind.. that's really pathetic.. Sometimes too much knowledge is lethal, a poison that can eat your whole being.

Josepepe claims not to hate the tagalogs or tagalistas as he loves to word it but when he attacks, it's just unbelievable... It's really noble to be a proud visayan but while you are being proud and humble, you shouldn't look down on other races or ethnic groups, instead, you have to learn how to cultivate a knowledge to bring a nation together in unity and not be a medium for a destruction of a nation.. But I guess Josepepe can careless, he is in america and probably has taken a step to become a US citizen?

I do wish that these bashing would stop as it is becoming a big turn off to read here anymore. It's not constructive anymore.

Our American heritage

http://www.manilastandardtoday.com/?page=antonioAbaya_feb22_2007
By Antonio C. Abaya

My two articles “Idiot Candidates” (Feb. 6) and “An idiot nation” (Feb. 13) drew a flood of reactions, literally from all over the world—I didn’t know until now that I had a faithful reader in Kazakhstan—and more than 90 percent of them were positive and supportive of my three proposals for electoral reforms.

Namely, that a) all candidates for all elective offices must pass qualifying exams, so that the stupid and the ignorant are discouraged from entering politics, no matter how popular they may be with the squealing masa; b) individuals who have been convicted of or indicted for serious crimes should be barred from seeking public office; and c) senators should be elected on a regional, not national, basis, so that all regions are always represented in the Senate.

Three readers have taken exception to my statement that “American-style liberalism has created an idiot nation that can no longer tell right from wrong.” In several previous columns, I have also written that “American-style liberalism” has prevented this country from solving its communist insurgency problem.

Let me explain.

Contrary to the three readers’ allegations, I am not blaming the Americans for our problems. Those who have read my earlier writings know that it is not so. During the early 1990s debate on the American military bases, I was one of the few columnists who argued for their continued presence until 1998, the centenary of the Philippine-American War and the rich symbolism that that event carried.

Daily Inquirer columnist Larry Henares, who sided with the communists just because they were anti-American, called me the most pro-American writer then, and he meant that in a pejorative, not complimentary, sense.

When I referred/refer to “American-style liberalism,” I meant/mean American liberalism as filtered through the unique prism of Filipino Malay personal and social traits, which often lead to permissiveness, laxity, failure to enforce laws, reluctance to accept rules and regulation and a tendency toward anarchy, usually excused on the grounds that such an attitude is more “democratic.”

As far as I know, this “democratic” attitude is not prevalent among our fellow Malays in Indonesia and Malaysia, especially in how they went about solving their communist problem. Never mind the Indonesian Solution, in which anywhere from 300,000 to three million communists and suspected communists were summarily executed by the Indonesian military from 1965 to 1972. I wrote that this solution could not be a model for the Philippines.

A reader, who does not hide his pro-communist feelings, wrote that the Philippines had been following an Indonesian Solution for years. That is an exaggeration. Just as one swallow does not a summer make, so also a few hundred dead comrades, though regrettable, do not an Indonesian Solution make.

Of more interest to the Philippines would be the Internal Security Act, a legal and constitutional instrument inherited by the Malaysians (and Singaporeans) from their British colonial overlords. This empowered the state to arrest any suspected “subversive” and detain him or her indefinitely and without trial. This was how Malaysia (and Singapore) broke the back of their communist movements in the ’50s and ’60s. It is still in their statute books and is now used primarily against suspected Islamic terrorists.

But such a method would not pass muster in the Philippines because of our inherited “American-style liberalism”— which had no influence in Malaysia or Singapore—under which Filipino communists were/are free to organize, mobilize and proselytize against the state, even as their armed wing, the New People’s Army, wages a violent revolution to overthrow that state. Guess which country is still stuck with a communist insurgency.

Sir Robert Thompson, the British pro-consul in what became Malaysia and Singapore, who engineered the Internal Security Act in the 1950s, laid down five principles for defeating the Communists, the most relevant being the fourth principle:

“The government must give first priority to identifying and defeating the political subversives, not the guerrillas. The communist front organizations and the civil apparatus are the ultimate threats to the nation.” (See my article “McCarthyists,” June 28, 2006).

Again, it is difficult to see how this no-nonsense attitude can ever be adopted in a country with 40,000 lawyers—another legacy of “American-style liberalism”— whose professional bias seems to be to prevent the state from infringing on the rights of everyone to enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, including those who are expressly committed to destroying and overthrowing that state.

It is not only in dealing with the communist insurgency that the Philippine state has been emasculated by “American-style liberalism.” Our electoral system has likewise been stripped of all considerations of right and wrong, all the way from the idiot Commission on Elections to the idiot voters.

I cannot imagine that a convicted child rapist like Romeo Jalosjos—or unrepentant putschists like Gregorio Honasan and Antonio Trillanes—would ever have been allowed to run for public office in Malaysia or Singapore, or even in the bastions of liberal democracy in North America and Western Europe. This is really incomprehensible, and can only be explained by the contradictions—to use a favorite Marxist buzzword—of “American style liberalism.”

The influence of “American-style liberalism” is more pervasive than most Filipinos are aware of. I recall being invited to take part in a weekend workshop in the Puerto Azul resort during the early months of the Aquino presidency in 1986 or 1987. The workshop solicited ideas from the assembled media people—academics, government executives and businessmen—on how media should or could relate to government.

My contribution was to suggest that all radio and TV stations in the country should be pooled in a one-hour interactive nationwide hook-up everyday during which the people speak directly to the government about their needs, and the government speaks directly to the people about what it is doing for them, without the intervening prism of often biased commercial media with their own hidden agendas.

This idea was hooted down, especially by the media people in attendance, on the grounds that government had no business meddling in media, that government must compete with commercial media for the viewers’ attention, that government propaganda had no place in commercial media. (How could Cory Aquino possibly have competed with Vilma Santos and Nora Aunor?)

These were very “American” ideas, even if those who raised these objections were not aware of it. Until around the 1950s, all radio broadcasting even in the most liberal countries of Western Europe were government monopolies. Private American-style radio stations, with their wall-to-wall pop music and commercials, first broadcast from “pirate ships” anchored outside the territorial waters of European countries, and sought to draw listeners from government stations heavy with classical music and boring government programs.

Now, of course, private commercial stations are the norm of the day. But my point was that radio and TV programming should not be confined solely to commercial broadcasts, which tend to pander to the lowest common denominator in order to grab or protect market share, and hence tend to propagate idiotic programs that idiotize their audiences.

Media corporations should be reminded that the airwaves do not belong to them; they belong to the people as represented by the state and the government. The government that licenses media corporations to use those airwaves also has the eminent right to take back even only one hour out of 24, to use the communication network, if it had the imagination, in the tasks of nation-building. But these concepts are alien to Filipinos used to “American-style liberalism” that frowns on government presence in media.

Finally, one reader who disagreed with the idea of qualifying exams for all candidates for public office wrote “it will defeat the idea of democracy and further diminish the spirit of equality which in mature democracy is held by its subjects more than all the rights.”

Spoken like a true Jeffersonian democrat, except that Thomas Jefferson’s idea of equality and democracy did not include the Negro (excuse me, African-American) slaves, of which (or whom) Jefferson owned several. Democracy in the Jeffersonian sense applied only to white, property-owning Anglo-Saxons. Athenian democracy, likewise, embraced only the freemen in Athenian society and did not include the vast slave population.

At any rate, if qualifying exams are such an affront to the democratic ideal, then we should do away with all such exams altogether. From now on, let appendectomies be performed by the ambulance driver, let jetliners be flown by the check-in counter girls, and let the next high-rise condominium be built by a committee of unemployed drug addicts.

Our most important heritage from the Americans was the public school system, unique among all colonized people, which gave the Philippines in 1946 a literacy rate of 67 percent, compared to only 9 percent in what became Indonesia, and only 15 percent in what became Malaysia and Singapore, and 15 percent in what became Vietnam. How and why we lost that advantage is probably our most tragic failure.


Mukhang nagkakainitan na naman ang pagtatalo dito. Palitan muna natin ang usapan pansamantala.

^^ Same here! :lol: I get tired of the constant attacks on fellow Filipinos. I know that Josepepe you have a more ballistic approach but I think its time to limit the Tagalog bashing because it does not help. I think we can compromise and have a better way of exchanging of information or opinions. :)

iits not ethnocentrism, racism, or bashing anyone. its telling the truth so that we can come to the table without false notions and return to the original meaning of filipino. i am not tagalog and it is wrong for us to be forced to believe that we are one. my primal identity is bisaya. being filipino has nothng to do with a homogenous tagalog identity. the issue is the injustice done to my kind. if you like it is also decolonization. tagalismo is a phenomenon of the 20th century. its not the intent of the first republic to which i based my political and cultural identity as filipino.

datu bancao

I think that Spanish has an undeserved reputation for being exclusive to the elite. On the contrary, if one were to look worldwide, Hispanic culture has been less about hacienderos luxuriating in their plantations, fat friars and bishops in palatial convents, and bemedalled caudillos. Since the middle of the 20th century, Hispanic culture has been at the cutting edge of the liberal, the revolutionary, the egalitarian... witness the phenomenon of Che, Eduardo Galleano, even to some extent Isabel Allende... proponents of a more equitable social order. Kahit sa ating sariling bansa, kung tingnan ninyo, karamihan ng popular na gamit ng wika at culturang Kastila ay hindi nahahanap sa mga maharlika na nag-aral sa Greenhills o Loyola Heights, kundi sa mga abang mga indio timawa, karamiha'y provinciano. Hindi ba't mas malaki ang proporcion ng mga salitang Kastila sa Visaya (huwag na natin isali ang Chavacano) kaysa sa Tagalog ng mga elitista sa Manila? Kahit sa mga pagpili ng libangan, makikita niyo na ang hilig ng mga anak-mayaman ay wushu o TKD, habang ang kanilang mas-abang mga kabayan ay tumatangkilik sa escrima o arnis, na may terminologia at tactica na hango mula sa wikang Espanol at escrima.

***Ungrammatical Spanish version of above follows below. Pls feel free to correct me.***

Creo que Espanol tienes un reputacion elitista que no mereces. Al contrario, que visteis a todo del mundo, puedes conocer que cultura Hispana no es de hacienderos avariciosos, frailes gordos, y caudillos dictatoriales. Desde ultimas decadas de siglo pasado, cultura Hispana era una cultura de liberalismo, egalitarianismo, y revolucion. Tienes Che, Eduardo Galleano, Isabel Allende… que escrivueran y lucheran para un orden social mas justo por todos. En nuestra pais tambien, quando los elitistas de Manila hablaron un Tagalog artificialmente purificado de Hispanismos, pero tambien imprenata de Ingles (paradoxicamente), sus hermanos provincianos hablaron dialectos significamente Hispanizado (por ejemplo, Visaya y Chavacano). Tambien deportes que ambos classes eligeron… los elitistas de Manila practicaron artes marciales como karate o TKD, quando sus hermanos humildes practicaron el arte de Escrima, que tienes terminología y tacticas derivada de la lengua y methodologia de Espanoles.

sige nga, give us examples. let us see if what you are saying is true. there are many visaya (mga cebuano) here. we will examine if what you are saying is true or maybe you are just talking about city slangs. i wont argue about chavano because i know chavano is a spanish creole so it would naturally be full of spanish in it.

Get real also, I never mention anything about most Filipinos are influenced by Asian cultures. We are diversed and it is a fact that some of our kababayans don't even have a simple influence of Spanish culture.
Sure for more than 300 years we were Indios to the eyes of those conquistadores, and with different Asian cultures mixed in we are Filipinos.
Kung gusto mong maging Latino, walang pumipigil sa inyo.
sooSorry I don't mean to be magaspang on you, pareho lang tayong nag-graduate sa USTe at exempted kami sa Spanish 101 at 102 during those years dahil from grade school until high school meron kaming Spanish subjects. :lol:




If the Malaysians and Indonesians started to copy those Mexicans and Venezuelans' way of life, then they are influenced. :lol:

As I said, it has nothing to do with what Filipinos are watching on TV or from other media. It is how they play their role in the society.

* I pass by a section of Mega-Mall a few years ago and young students are speaking Tagalog/Koreans, gaya gaya sa mga tele novelas. :nuts:

Kung gusto mo ring maging intsik na mapang-abuso at mababa ang tingin sa aming mga Pilipino, wala ring pumipigil sa'yo.

BTW, forumers,
the director of Instituto cervantes said in his speech in UST that there is an increasing rate of enrollment in IC among youth aged 15-22 every year, mostly HS and college students :)

Here's something I found while skimming through Rizal's book "El Filibusterismo" It's on page 60-61 of the English version as translated by Charles Derbyshire (1912)

This will probably get someone's attention.

[60]

“Ah, youth is ever inexperienced and dreamy, always running after the butterflies and flowers! You have united, so that by your efforts you may bind your fatherland to Spain with garlands of roses when in reality you are forging upon it chains harder than the diamond! You ask for equal rights, the Hispanization of your customs, and you don’t see that what you are begging for is suicide, the destruction of your nationality, the annihilation of your fatherland, the consecration of tyranny! What will you be in the future? A people without character, a nation without liberty—everything you have will be borrowed, even your very defects! You beg for Hispanization, and do not pale with shame when they deny it you! And even if they should grant it to you, what then—what have you gained? At best, a country of pronunciamentos, a land of civil wars, a republic of the greedy and the malcontents, like some of the republics of South America! To what are you tending now, with your instruction in Castilian, a pretension that would be ridiculous were it not for its deplorable consequences! You wish to add one more language to the forty odd that are spoken in the islands, so that you may understand one another less and less.”

“On the contrary,” replied Basilio, “if the knowledge of Castilian may bind us to the government, in exchange it may also unite the islands among themselves.”

[61]

“A gross error!” rejoined Simoun. “You are letting yourselves be deceived by big words and never go to the bottom of things to examine the results in their final analysis. Spanish will never be the general language of the country, the people will never talk it, because the conceptions of their brains and the feelings of their hearts cannot be expressed in that language—each people has its own tongue, as it has its own way of thinking! What are you going to do with Castilian, the few of you who will speak it? Kill off your own originality, subordinate your thoughts to other brains, and instead of freeing yourselves, make yourselves slaves indeed! Nine-tenths of those of you who pretend to be enlightened are renegades to your country! He among you who talks that language neglects his own in such a way that he neither writes nor understands it, and how many have I not seen who pretended not to know a single word of it! But fortunately, you have an imbecile government! While Russia enslaves Poland by forcing the Russian language upon it, while Germany prohibits French in the conquered provinces, your government strives to preserve yours, and you in return, a remarkable people under an incredible government, you are trying to despoil yourselves of your own nationality! One and all you forget that while a people preserves its language, it preserves the marks of its liberty, as a man preserves his independence while he holds to his own way of thinking. Language is the thought of the peoples. Luckily, your independence is assured; human passions are looking out for that!”

Simoun paused and rubbed his hand over his forehead. The waning moon was rising and sent its faint light down through the branches of the trees, and with his white locks and severe features, illuminated from below by the lantern...

Interesting and oh so true!:)

Kung gusto mo ring maging intsik na mapang-abuso at mababa ang tingin sa aming mga Pilipino, wala ring pumipigil sa'yo.



:lol: I don't have to deal with this trash, USTe ka pa naman ---- :nuts:
Kawawang bata...

Tagalog-bashing again. :ohno: How can we forge national unity when you always revert to regional pride? Aren't we all Filipinos? Not all Tagalogs deny the Hispanic influence. It is deeply entrenched in the culture. But we do have other influences, too.

".....this work is to provoke critical thought, not to cultural animosity; to inspire discovery, not to instill demonization; to enlighten, not to enrage. I write it to rekindle a dispassionate respect for truth, historical and contemporary, for the plain and inescapable fact that as nations we were splintered by deep divisions then, cleavages that over time were deliberately concealed by the myth that common enemies united us, by the fiction that shared suffering erased our fundamental distinctions and divisions. To accept this reality is to begin to comprehend why we remain frightfully fractured, individually and communally, today. If we know this painful truth sublimanlly rather than consciously, it is entirely because we have been lulled by the gilded lie that the many, forged in the crucible of a mythic revolution, had become one, by the dark deceit that pluribus had become unum."

by: Martinez, D. A Country of Our Own, "Catholics Together, Indios Apart" p. 143


we cannot be united if we opt for uniformity instead of pluralism, colonialism instead of diversity, invent fiction instead of the truth

though i dont agree in forming separate republics it is incumbent upon us to defend our regional identities which is our soul. when everyone understands that being bisaya, being ilocano, being lumad or being igorot is synonymous with a national identity then we can build unity. until then , understand that we have never been one nation throughout our history. this, in my opinion, is how we build a nation out of many nations. it is not by destroying their identities but rather by building on it. a collective effort and agreement that we are brothers not because we are supposed to be alike but because we all share one ideal - A Beautiful Country in Peace.


Bankaw Itomon

^^ That's right we share the same ideal to be a beautiful nation and being Filipinos.

Yung mga nagpapa-class or nagpapaburgis lang naman ang ayaw aminin na Pinoy sila.... :lol: (garapal ba?)

You can try to cloak your thought with all that beautiful language @Josepepe, but it has become evident in some of your "shoot at the hip" postings that all you are fomenting is division and strife.

Most that have grown up in Manila and the Tagalog regions also have roots from different parts of the Philippines -- from the North to the South. It is but natural that they will speak in the lingua franca of their environment. If say, I grew up in the South, I will also learn to speak Visaya.

No one is lulling you into uniformity. Everyone respects regional identity, pluralism and diversity. But you have such venom in you against the Tagalogs and the so-called "Tagalistas" that you grab at every opportunity to spew it when you see another incoherent forumer taking a jab at the Tagalogs just because they were also being poisoned in their minds. Stop poisoning the well and have a healthy respect for diversity, too. No one (not even "Tagalistas") is taking away your true cultural identity.

I'm so sorry to interrupt you guys but it seems to me that this forum is in itself a microcosm of the present-day situtation in our country where unity seems impossible to happen.

Ang Pinoy nga naman, napa ka divisive. If we only set aside our regional pride for an undivided effort at nation building then we may have become better compared to our neighbors.

There is only one thing sure in this thread though, its that we agree to disagree. Com'on, by mere blabbering we only get to hate each other more. Why dont we agree on something and work on that instead?

I, for one, think that Unity is possible. Correction, I actually thought we were united in the first place.

You can try to cloak your thought with all that beautiful language @Josepepe, but it has become evident in some of your "shoot at the hip" postings that all you are fomenting is division and strife.

Most that have grown up in Manila and the Tagalog regions also have roots from different parts of the Philippines -- from the North to the South. It is but natural that they will speak in the lingua franca of their environment. If say, I grew up in the South, I will also learn to speak Visaya.

No one is lulling you into uniformity. Everyone respects regional identity, pluralism and diversity. But you have such venom in you against the Tagalogs and the so-called "Tagalistas" that you grab at every opportunity to spew it when you see another incoherent forumer taking a jab at the Tagalogs just because they were also being poisoned in their minds. Stop poisoning the well and have a healthy respect for diversity, too. No one (not even "Tagalistas") is taking away your true cultural identity.


to quote; " no one is lulling you into uniformity"

1. the eight rays in the philippine flag only represent the 8 tagalog provinces that revolted against spanish rule. where are we the bisayans and the muslims in that picture?

2. the concocted national language whatever anyone says is tagalog at the very best and a tagalog dialect at the very least. what has happened to the other austronesian languages in the philippines? are they not filipino languages too? why are they not on paper that is in the philippine constitution with equal legal recognition?

3. philippine history whatever any historian says is a tale whose mother narrative centered on the tagalogs. where are the stories of my forefathers? where are the warriors of my nation who helped build this fabricated state?

where in all of the above did my regional identity been respected and tell me if i am responsible for to quote you "formenting division and strife" in that regard. if the well has been "poisoned" it is not i who did it. it has been poisoned a long time ago. all i am trying to do is to have a common ground. but with the ridicule going on about our hispanized culture which is the only aspect that could possibly ever unite us there is rejection. if i am for division i am not going to be posting these things. i point out that there's a problem and you think its tagalog bashing. whatever you or anyone else may think i am for the building of a filipino nation. a nation of equals. where is the division in that?


datu bancao

^ The Visayans were never out of positions of government since our declaration of Philippine Independence. What was their say in this? We now have a representative government coming from all regions of the Philippines. Let them chart out the legislative policy and agenda to make it broader based.

But your prior words have betrayed you @Josepepe because each time you post something against fellow Filipinos (particularly, Tagalogs, FilChis), it pains me.

Mind you, I have Visayan blood in me as well as Tagalog. And as in most Filipinos, I have Spanish, Malay, Portuguese and Chinese blood in my veins.

You can try to cloak your thought with all that beautiful language @Josepepe, but it has become evident in some of your "shoot at the hip" postings that all you are fomenting is division and strife.

Most that have grown up in Manila and the Tagalog regions also have roots from different parts of the Philippines -- from the North to the South. It is but natural that they will speak in the lingua franca of their environment. If say, I grew up in the South, I will also learn to speak Visaya.

No one is lulling you into uniformity. Everyone respects regional identity, pluralism and diversity. But you have such venom in you against the Tagalogs and the so-called "Tagalistas" that you grab at every opportunity to spew it when you see another incoherent forumer taking a jab at the Tagalogs just because they were also being poisoned in their minds. Stop poisoning the well and have a healthy respect for diversity, too. No one (not even "Tagalistas") is taking away your true cultural identity.


Being a Batangueno married to a Bisayan, I highly agree with what you stated.

Josepepe, I don't know if this helps or if you've ever heard or seen it, but there is a humongous statue of Lapu-Lapu in Rizal Park, which if I'm not mistaken, is even larger than Rizal's statue/monument.

^ Yes, that was where the fountain globe and the skating rink used to be.

but i believe josepepe's post also have substance. because i also realize that there is really too much emphasis on anything tagalog. there is a need now to also give recognition to the non-tagalogs culture and achievements. what josepepe is saying seems to be centered on what is being taught in school. we dont talk much about the non-tagalogs. and even lapulapu's statue in manila was met with some protest because they think it was inappropriate to erect his statue in a city that has nothing to do with him.

I don't think Manila has nothing to do with Lapu-lapu. He is after all the first one who countered foreign domination of the land. What was taught in school was that he is our first hero.

I am not detracting from the points raised by @Josepepe. I have read a lot of them and am not in disagreement with some of them, the most important of which is the revival of Spanish in the educational curriculum. It's just sometimes, especially when you have read his postings in the past against Tagalogs, one will be apalled by something seething within him.

That drew counter-reactions from others like Louman and Tsinoy, etc. Recently, we have gone back to more dispassionate, academic and learned exchanges, but whenever someone posts here with Tagalog-bashing tendencies, it seems that @Josepepe take this opportunity and posts with glee and feed on this anti-Tagalog sentiment.

It is counter-productive and negative.

The statue was deemed inappropriate not because Manila has nothing to do with him, but because of aesthetic and historical reasons. The proportion of the statue was out of place and the Luneta or Bagumbayan as far as I know was and is reserved for Rizal and for the martyrs of the Revolution.

^ Yes. The point raised then was there could have been a better location for the Lapu-lapu monument in the Park or somewhere else in Manila.

As a medium of teaching instruction, the vernacular should be adopted and there should be a subject specifically dedicated to the local language or dialect. This is not to avoid exclusion or the clout of so called Imperial Manila or Tagalogs but for a local or regional literature to flourish and to value more one's history and mother tongue.

How many of us here wether Tagalogs or non-Tagalog, can write in our mother tongue using the proper grammar? Let alone, express our entire thoughts fluently in our mother tongue?

I used to resist having to study Pilipino in school because I was thinking why do I have to study it? I speak it already. I realized, later, that I have difficulty expressing in straight and pure Tagalog.

The statue was deemed inappropriate not because Manila has nothing to do with him, but because of aesthetic and historical reasons. The proportion of the statue was out of place and the Luneta or Bagumbayan as far as I know was and is reserved for Rizal and for the martyrs of the Revolution.


i concur with that statement. i am a cebuano but yeah i do think that the monument shouldnt be placed at the Luneta. if people were to honor the hero of mactan, it can be appropriately done elsewhere in manila or perhaps build a bigger monument in cebu instead.

As a medium of teaching instruction, the vernacular should be adopted and there should be a subject specifically dedicated to the local language or dialect. This is not to avoid exclusion or the clout of so called Imperial Manila or Tagalogs but for a local or regional literature to flourish and to value more one's history and mother tongue.

How many of us here wether Tagalogs or non-Tagalog, can write in our mother tongue using the proper grammar? Let alone, express our entire thoughts fluently in our mother tongue?


that is certainly true. it is ironic that most of us master foreign languages but when we write/speak using our own tongue, we just fail do it.

ironic still, Rizal himself seems to be more at ease in using Spanish than Tagalog.

I don't think Manila has nothing to do with Lapu-lapu. He is after all the first one who countered foreign domination of the land. What was taught in school was that he is our first hero.

I am not detracting from the points raised by @Josepepe. I have read a lot of them and am not in disagreement with some of them, the most important of which is the revival of Spanish in the educational curriculum. It's just sometimes, especially when you have read his postings in the past against Tagalogs, one will be apalled by something seething within him.

That drew counter-reactions from others like Louman and Tsinoy, etc. Recently, we have gone back to more disapassionate, academic and learned exchanges, but whenever someone posts here with Tagalog-bashing tendencies, it seems that @Josepepe take this opportunity and posts with glee and feed on this anti-Tagalog sentiment.

It is counter-productive and negative.


really. as i have said i am merely pointing out that there's a problem. if you a tagalog doesnt understand it then i cannot do anything anymore. one thing i will never become is to be tagalized until the day i die. the counter reactions from aka louman, tsinoy, jbkayaker has to do with my presentation of that hispanic aspect that could bind us as a nation. they are united in rejecting the very idea that we are also hispanics culturally. quitelife is ticked off because i dare criticized the chinese domination of the filipino economy. louman, the filamerican whose only idea of filipino culture doesnt extend beyond the alibata is to say that i am insane for raising the issue that the hispanic is there. tsinoy whose loyalty really is somewhere else or his idea of what's asian which is another fictive identity thinks that the hispanic in filipino is being burgis. very well, this is my last post. for me whats counter productive and negative is to pretend that the tagalogs never dominated us. okay. i am outta here. i am going on my own merry way. josepepe is only a cybername. its just amazing how even when i used a bisayan name you people never respected it. not even when i used it as a byline. i was even made to look like a fool and ridiculed with bangkay pokemon etc. that alone is illustrative on why i will never be among equals. so go on with your "academic and dispassionate" discussions. adios. forever. you guys can continue being productive and positive. whatever it means.

Bankaw

i think it is not really tagalog-bashing or being anti-tagalog. i think he is only raising a point that there is too much tagalog in our system and that there is a problem facing our present system where tagalog reign supreme thus demoting the non-tagalog of this country.

i remember vividly on one occassion in the local news during the linggo ng wika, the children were being interviewed about the importance of the national language (tagalog) and every children interviewed said that we should learn how to speak "tagalog" (some say "filipino") because it is "our" language and it is unpatriotic if we don't know how to speak tagalog. honestly, i find it an insult. why? because the native language of those kids is visayan. and they think they "lack" patriotism if they don't speak and learn tagalog. too much emphasis on the tagalog makes the rest a second class citizen and makes some tagalog feel they are more superior.

i would suggest we should all take it as a wake up call instead. maybe something needs to be look into. he might be one of those who is promoting the slogan "unity in diversity and not unity in uniformity." i think that is the slogan of a group called SOLFED. they have a valid point. maybe someday we should also educate our people about the ifugao and other indigenous tribes of the philippines and stay away from too much emphasis on tagalog. it is actually causing division than unity. no one knows much about leon kilat and kangleon but many will be educated about the 13 martyrs. i dont know why we try to center everything on the tagalogs. lapulapu is not even considered "filipino" because there was no philippines yet during the time of lapulapu. and i believe lapulapu would be unable to "rest in peace" in his grave when he hears you calling him "filipino" (or a subject of the spanish king philip) he would have died in vain. :)

^ How long have you been reading his postings @bukid? This has been almost in its fifth permutation already and had spinned off from some other threads.

@Josepepe is not the ideal spokesperson for that cause. Even @Animo who invited him over to these threads had already noticed that he caused rancor more than unity in diversity. He is more for disunity. Down with Tagalogs. At one time, he even wanted to declare his own republic. It became evident when he started using his indigenous pseudonym -- a nom de guerre of sorts. People reacted when they gleaned his anti-Tagalog and anti-Sinic tendencies, not really because they reject the Hispanic influence in our country. They do recognize its unifying thread but not to the exclusion of other influences, too, be it American, Chinese and of course, our own indigenous cultures.

I was an avid reader of what seemed to be intelligent postings until he showed his true colors. People here recognize the need to be more inclusive but there is always some sort of aggression towards the Tagalogs. Being a Manilenya (can't find the enye code) does not make me impervious of recognizing this need.

i am not saying i agree with everything he says or the way he say it. but i am more "positive" in looking at it. i would rather look at the merits of his arguments. maybe if we look at it with a more open and liberal mind, we might see that there's really nothing to argue. we probably believe in the same thing. and that is, respect for each other. they are only asking that respect and courtesy be given to the non-tagalog by treating them equally without discrimination in education (equal treatment in history), culture (equal treatment in literatures and arts) and other aspect of their life.

maybe the aggression towards the tagalog had something to do with decades of visayan-bashing by the tagalog media. i believe we are all aware of the "inday" and "dodong" depictions on televisions from dolphy to tito, vic and joey to micheal v. i remember how in school they would talk about movies and shows where the visayan inday and dodong is considered tanga, stupido at katawatawa. many find that funny but many also feel insulted by such depiction. it's in fact, very degrading especially when you see a tagalog treat the "visayan inday" and "dodong" like a dog being whipped with a crumpled newspaper. :( this is a common knowledge among the visayans and it had been the topic in social gatherings specially among the more simple folks who can feel that they are the target of such insults. so don't be surprised if you find many visayans would have such aggressions toward tagalog because the tagalog also did something to the visayans that made the visayans hate them.

but we are here to build bridges and not walls so maybe we should look at it in many angles. maybe he has his reason. we are here to promote unity and we cannot bring unity here unless we face the issue and listen to people. instead of finding fault in what he is saying, why not listen to him and see if we can find a common ground where we can build a bridge together instead of a wall.

^ We have listened to him openly but he keeps on turning us off with his sometimes combative stance.

And Mr. Josepepe: okay, adjust the rays of the sun. But we are all the Sun which symbolizes HOPE for our nation. We are all represented in the stars: Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao. Give Filipino a chance to evolve to a more representative national language. Is it too odious to learn the language? You speak it. You speak your mother tongue. You speak Spanish and English. Does being able to speak and understand Tagalog govern your mind and ruin your identity? It does not. You actually have an advantage over Tagalogs who wish to be able to speak and understand Visaya. (We have always asked our father to speak to us in Waray but the only occasion we are able to converse is when there is a family gathering in the clan.)

So, write a book about the rightful place of the Visayans in Philippine History. I think this will be beneficial to all of us as a nation. Peace!

yes, @bukid, you are quite right when you pointed out the stereotyping that Bisayans are subjected to... i myself have heard similar unpleasant things about us by some tagalog-speakers like Bisayans not being able to speak good english to worse things like Cebu not having newspapers, cable tv, etc, etc, but i would often keep my cool because some of these people may just be ignorant about the BIsayans.

Before, when Bisayans go to the capital, they would always endevour to speak tagalog so that they'd not be laughed at but today things have changed, we now hear Bisayans talking in their own tongue (partciularly Cebuanos) because the stigma attached to being Bisayan and promdi is gone. this is due to the advancements in communications like the internet and SSC for that matter which showcase the big developments outside of Manila.

Well, some people are living in the lala land who can't suggest of anything practical and useful for the overall benefit of Filipinos. Advocating Hispanicism by hate and perpetuating them in the process by blaming the so-called 'Tagalistas' and 'Chinois' for the failure of 'The Republic' as the underlying agenda is counterproductive and contradictory to national unity. Despite all the hate propaganda of which is obviously very apparent in the previous posts, he continues to deny racism by defending the cause based on claims of the so-called history in question. Someone is seriously drowning in the River of Egypt (The Nile). :lol:

:nuts: In my case, I did try hard to learn Tagalog, pati malalalim na kataga, sinisisid ko. I was interested in all kinds of dialects during my high-school years. My father(a pure Chinese who grew up in Pangasinan taught us Pangasinense, while my mother(almost a pure Hispañola), taught us Bicolano dialect. Paghaluin niyo yan plus Chinese, Spanish at salitang kanto sa bahay namin, kung hindi kayo mataranta. :lol:

Kung kinakailangan matuto ang isang nilalang ng mga salitang banyaga o sariling wika ng iba-ibang lalawigan, ito ay may kadahilanan lalo na kung ito ay para sa kanyang kapakanan. (gulp!..nakalunok ako ng butete sa lalim ng sisid ko) :lol:

Anyways, we can agree or disagree always...sawa na ako sa mga bashing-bashing na yan or any anti-sentiment by Pinoys on other race or nations.
(sa ubag!)

Guys, continue!... walang pikunan lang.

:lol: I don't have to deal with this trash, USTe ka pa naman ---- :nuts:
Kawawang bata...

Sorry... Napikon lang naman talaga ako sa post mo. You know, I admit that sometimes I get pissed off whenever some forumers here are trying to deny their Hispanic heritage by using the popularity of Asianovelas as an example...
Like I said in my post earlier, Lowland Filipinos are Latin-influenced but they still possess many Asian values.

I'm a typical Pinoy. Though my grandma can speak Spanish, there's no foreign blood running through my veins. I don't have that IMCSF syndrome; but I believe that my values are more hispanic than asian. I'm a Roman Catholic.
I go to church, I attend novenas and processions. We celebrate fiestas. We cook embotido, menudo, torta etc. I speak Tagalog which is greatly influenced by Spanish. I can speak Spanish.

There's no reason for us to hate our colonizers anymore. Past is Past. Let us all move on. I think learning Spanish won't hurt, right? Filipinos will lose nothing, they will gain something...

I hope that makes my stand clear :)

Sorry... Napikon lang naman talaga ako sa post mo. You know, I admit that sometimes I get pissed off whenever some forumers here are trying to deny their Hispanic heritage by using the popularity of Asianovelas as an example...
Like I said in my post earlier, Lowland Filipinos are Latin-influenced but they still possess many Asian values.

I'm a typical Pinoy. Though my grandma can speak Spanish, there's no foreign blood running through my veins. I don't have that IMCSF syndrome; but I believe that my values are more hispanic than asian. I'm a Roman Catholic.
I go to church, I attend novenas and processions. We celebrate fiestas. We cook embotido, menudo, torta etc. I speak Tagalog which is greatly influenced by Spanish. I can speak Spanish.

There's no reason for us to hate our colonizers anymore. Past is Past. Let us all move on. I think learning Spanish won't hurt, right? Filipinos will lose nothing, they will gain something...

I hope that makes my stand clear :)

Amigo,

don't worry about him, he's your typical insecure low class Filipino who thinks he's all high and mighty dahil he's mixed with Chinese blood, he shows loyalty when he needs to to be Filipino, but he shows off his Chinese blood because it gives an insecure person like him status and he flaunts it, especially with a nickname like tsinoy, to assert his social status as a Chinese-Filipino among Filipinos, which just shows complete hypocrisy and shows that he lacks humility because he fulfills the stereotypes of the snobby Chinese-Filipino that looks down on the Filipino masses that he himself is trying to combat, but he fails with his snobbish attitude and lack of humility, and he does have IMSCF syndrome dahil he's clearly overexaggerating the Spanish blood of his mother. He just feels bad for being teased for his Chinese blood when he was younger, so now he's taking it out on all the Filipino forumers here (although with no effect because low class idiots that are jealous of others don't affect us, haha :lol:) including those he's obviously jealous of like me, just because I grew up in the states, and you can tell from his posts, he makes it so obvious with his words, there's no doubt, but I'm glad there are educated classy people like you VivaTomasino, Lili, Animo, and SOME others here who are secure with themselves and their lives that they don't feel the need to resort to crab mentality like other Filipinos do.

BTW, I already made up my mind that I would never read another post from tsinoy, and since my last post here where I tried to do the right thing and make amends with him after he began putting me down for no reason when I never said or did anything to him, I haven't read any of his posts, if I see that it's by tsinoy or another Filipino crab like him like kyle@1008 (who would rather join a MARI-CON like him in putting me down for no reason, than stand up for a Filipina woman like me, how macho of you, parang bak-la) Filipino crabs that are at the bottom of the bucket pulling others down, I just scroll down over to the next post, because I don't waste my time associating with people like that or reading his post because he's so UNEDUCATED TALAGA, and his posts are uneducated and pointless, you can see how immature he is dahil he puts down a lot of people here just to make his insecure self feel better, his posts have no intellectual value, he replies to my posts thinking I'll actually read them and he feels good that he spoke his mind NOT EVEN REALIZING that what he wrote didn't even affect me, haha, because how can something affect me if I choose not to read it? HAHAHA, so pathetic talaga yung tsinoy na yan. :lol: :lol: so don't pay any attention to him because you know insecure people have to constantly put others down to make themselves feel better, it's sometimes called crab mentality, but it's also called narcissistic personality disorder, and it's obvious he has it, based on the fact that he puts down everybody else and has not made a single friend here in Skyscraper forums with his pathetic antisocial behaviour, haha :lol:

This is what I wrote to him, because he was also trashing me for no reason at the other forum. Can you imagine a guy like that, disrespecting a Filipina like me he doesn't know for no reason? In Latin countries, where a MAN is judged by how well he treats a woman, he's obviously a MARI-CON, or in other words, a man lacking masculinity, MARI-CON means f-gg-t in Spanish, I do not have anything against gay people, because I love the gays, but a MARI-CON exactly what he is based on our Spanish culture and the way he treats women like me:

i was trying to be nice and to save you from public humilliation. masama talaga yung ugali mo, no? lahat dito meron ka ng away, ano ka ba, wala ka ba ng respeto para sa mga babae? and you have to act like a typical filipino crab, putting down other people when they didn't even say anything bad to you in the first place, wala ko naman sinabe ng masama sa'yo, nakakahiya ka sa lahat ng tao dito, at hinda ka dapat ma-represent ng mga pinoy dahil walang hiya ka, at walang clase talaga. i'm not reading any more replies from you, so whatever you write won't affect me, haha, because i'm not even gonna read anything you write, i didn't even read your reply in the other Spanish language forum so whatever you wrote had no effect on me tontito, and I'm not gonna from now on read anything you write, because i only associate with people who have class and respect for others like lili. Class is something that you show with your demeanor, class is not money or status, but respect for others, and it's obvious that not a lot of people respect you, because you don't respect others, and that's why you're a low class person, so pathetic talaga, makes me laugh, hahahah! :lol: God Bless.

Isabel


GOD BLESS, wag ka mag alala sa mga low class trash like tsinoy, it's obvious he's living a miserable life because his posts are so negative towards everybody else, a person who has a happy life has no need to put others down to make himself feel better, just be happy that you're happy, and not a miserable insecure person who's going to have a miserable life no matter what like him :lol: :lol:

You know, you would hope that there would be unity among Pinoys, but crab mentality is still very evident among a LOT of Filipinos in every social situation wherever you go in the world, and over here in this forum, there's no exception.

I don't want it to be this way, but most times, I feel more welcome around Latinos here in the states than with other Filipinos who smile in your face but are always full of jealousies and intrigas and crab mentality, and they treat me better, especially Latin men, because they don't have all of the insecurity issues that Filipinos, and Filipino men have. Latin men may be in a machismo culture, but despite that, they know how to treat women, whereas Filipino men, they don't have chivalry sometimes to stand up for women when it's needed. No Filipino man has stood up for me (except you VivaTomasino once which shows me you are a true gentleman), here when another Filipino man was putting me down.

If you translate that over to Latin culture, that would make all the Filipino men here mari-cones, or baklas, because a Latin man who doesn't stand up for a woman who's being put down by another man is seen as lacking macho-ness.

The way women are treated in Latin culture, some Filipinos will say that because Latin culture is sexist, they would automatically be treated worse and that in Filipino culture, we're more equal, but that's not entirely true from what I've seen, Latin men treat their women better than Filipino men treat women, even just in general conversation in everyday life on a street corner, I see that the relations between Latin men and women, which stem from the Spanish era, are more refined and that Latin men take more care in protecting their women than Filipino men do, Latin men give women delicadeza and talk to them differently in a sort of gentle, flirting style while Filipino men don't because you'll see many times, if a Filipino man disrespects a Filipino woman, many times, the men around him will just join in, in the movies, Latin machismo exists, ROBIN PADILLA will kick the man's ass, but in real life? No, Latin machismo that is supposed to exist in Filipino men, based on what Filipino historians say about our culture, does not exist in Filipino men, the men just join in in not giving the Filipino woman her respect and continue to disrespect her or won't even stand up for her, and that's true in real life, you'll see that many times here in this forum and it's one of the biggest signs that although I would love to see Filipinos are more hispanicized, it's really evident that in this respect, Filipinos are not because this is one of the biggest and most blatant differences I see in the differences between Latin culture and Filipino culture, in the relations between men and women and how they differ in the Philippines from the rest of Latin America and Spain...Maybe back in the Spanish speaking days of Kuya Germs and our grandfathers, there was more of a similarity, but NOPE, not anymore in 2007, the values of caballerismo are no longer passed down to young Filipino men. If Spanish is revived, I would also hope that the values of the past, such as cabellerismo and delicadeza, that made the Philippines of the past such a wonderful place to live in would also be revived.

Amiga Lili, I remember you were talking about this before in another thread, and you pointed it out before, it's so true, diba? I remember this was also mentioned in that article I gave you of the study done of the Spanish language of the Philippines by the University of Pennsylvania, how the norms between men and women of Latin American countries, and the differences in how women are addressed in conversation and how they are treated more delicately than men, are lacking in the Philippines.

Ay naku , what happened to this thread!:doh: :? :(

MGA PILIPINO NGA TAYO, Only a Pinoy would have this much Disunity discussing Unity! :nuts:

We are all different and have our points of view and it's really ok to have differences in opinion. We can not expect everyone to agree with us. Let us try not to bash each other personally , or read things beyond what is actually written. This is just a forum, ostensibly a place to exchange ideas,no more no less, it will do none of us any good if we all slide down that slippery slope and use manners and language we would not normally employ if we were all introduced face to face and having a conversation!:uh:

Let's try to keep it civil and just stick to the main points without attacking each other. We won't gain anything except irritate one another (something most of us would not do on purpose in real life) and eventually we will all be the losers because the thread will be dead.:deadthrea

:)

Ay naku , what happened to this thread!:doh: :? :(

MGA PILIPINO NGA TAYO, Only a Pinoy would have this much Disunity discussing Unity! :nuts:

We are all different and have our points of view and it's really ok to have differences in opinion. We can not expect everyone to agree with us. Let us try not to bash each other personally , or read things beyond what is actually written. This is just a forum, ostensibly a place to exchange ideas,no more no less, it will do none of us any good if we all slide down that slippery slope and use manners and language we would not normally employ if we were all introduced face to face and having a conversation!:uh:

Let's try to keep it civil and just stick to the main points without attacking each other. We won't gain anything except irritate one another (something most of us would not do on purpose in real life) and eventually we will all be the losers because the thread will be dead.:deadthrea

:)

bustero,

the passionate discussions in this thread is nothing compared to other pinoy forums where its really, really bad. you can bet on that. the sky is not falling. its right there pushing the envelope. nothing more.


i agree with you that filipinos either misread or read too much into posts and therefore lose the message its trying to convey. its really ironic that filipinos deny being "latin" and yet this heated discussion are so typically pinoy. and very much "hispanic" (whatever it means). where almost everything is a personal affront. i will give you an example: mga elitistang tagalog. i followed this term from another post written by another forumer and all it means is the tagalog elite and not the tagalog as a whole. i use terms like imperialism, colonialism, tagalista, chinese domination etc to make a point in general. again this is taken to be combative, counterproductive and negative. these terms have been used in other forums and nobody has construed it for any other way.

in any case, you can do whatever you want with this thread. its up to you because i dont care one way or the other. i am leaving because i failed in my mission at least in this forum to connect and make people understand. anyway, this thread is mild compared to others where i have been.

bankaw

^ Maybe you were also effective in making waves @Josepepe. Perhaps that is your role here. Otherwise, this thread might be "blah".

and he does have IMSCF syndrome dahil he's clearly overexaggerating the Spanish blood of his mother. He just feels bad for being teased for his Chinese blood when he was younger, so now he's taking it out on all the Filipino forumers here (although with no effect because low class idiots that are jealous of others don't affect us, haha ) including those he's obviously jealous of like me, just because I grew up in the states, and you can tell from his posts, he makes it so obvious with his words, there's no doubt, but I'm glad there are educated classy people like you VivaTomasino, Lili, Animo, and SOME others here who are secure with themselves and their lives that they don't feel the need to resort to crab mentality like other Filipinos do.


Juice Kow poh! patawarin ka sana ng mga Filipinos, neneng!



To miss IsabelPresley, if you are reading this, (which is I'm sure) I have to end this with a sour note for you.

As a well educated person, I don't really have to deal with your garbage talk.
Also, I'm a very uninhibited person and totally open to anything that can be thrown in my face, but to really respond to all of your very uneducated act and manners on this forum would be a waste of time and brain cell. :lol:

A girl that acts like you is not a lady. And I'm not sorry to say that.

God bless to you also.

Sorry... Napikon lang naman talaga ako sa post mo. You know, I admit that sometimes I get pissed off whenever some forumers here are trying to deny their Hispanic heritage by using the popularity of Asianovelas as an example...
Like I said in my post earlier, Lowland Filipinos are Latin-influenced but they still possess many Asian values.


I hope that makes my stand clear :)


You did send a message clearly and there is nothing to be sorry about.
This is just an open forum discussion, letting your emotion ruled your inner self would make a second person out of you.
Just be true to yourself and you'd be okay. There are still lots of things to learn in this world. :)

Well, since Mr. Bankaw here deemed it necessary to mention my handle in his post... aba e di buhayin natin ang bangkay.
really. as i have said i am merely pointing out that there's a problem.Indeed!!! You've pointed out the problem perfectly well, coupled with insults, racial slurs and condescension. :no:
if you a tagalog doesnt understand it then i cannot do anything anymore.How convenient... an example of what I was just saying. Oh poor bankaw, what a burden greatness is! Tsk, tsk...
one thing i will never become is to be tagalized until the day i die.Good for you... in any case, if I'm not mistaken, you are proud to be american after all.
the counter reactions from aka louman, tsinoy, jbkayaker has to do with my presentation of that hispanic aspect that could bind us as a nation. they are united in rejecting the very idea that we are also hispanics culturally.Oh, is that the composition of the famous "Louman and his posse?" I'm not even going to go near this one... but it's good that you finally named names. I've been wondering who Louman's posse, to which you kept referring, were. :ohno:
quitelife is ticked off because i dare criticized the chinese domination of the filipino economy.Me, ticked off by your criticism? Let's examine that for a second, shall we? When you say chinese, I assume you're referring to filipino-chinese. If that's the case, what does it matter then whether chinoys or pure filipinos dominate Philippine economy? Aren't they, in the end, both Filipinos anyway? Looking at it from this point of view, your so-called criticisms are nothing but an expression of thinly disguised anti-chinese sentiment.

Criticize if you will, but please provide (and base it on) actual facts, and not merely present half-cocked pronouncements based on your prejudices, ok?
very well, this is my last post.Promise?
josepepe is only a cybername. its just amazing how even when i used a bisayan name you people never respected it. not even when i used it as a byline. i was even made to look like a fool and ridiculed with bangkay pokemon etc. that alone is illustrative on why i will never be among equals.Ah, but you're missing the point, jose... it was never your name (nor the fact that it was bisayan) that wasn't being respected. It was the person behind the name and his belligerent attitude. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that respect can be earned and lost. Sadly, you've obviously lost mine... for whatever that's worth.
so go on with your "academic and dispassionate" discussions. adios. forever. you guys can continue being productive and positive. whatever it means.Forever, really? Are you sure?

Hmmm... let's see... a few posts later and he's back. Talk about credibility. vv

bustero,

...

in any case, you can do whatever you want with this thread. its up to you because i dont care one way or the other. i am leaving because i failed in my mission at least in this forum to connect and make people understand. anyway, this thread is mild compared to others where i have been.

bankawLeaving again? So soon? But are you really, really, really sure this time? Hate to say it but I've heard that before. So, you'll excuse me if I don't believe you.

Bangkay Pokemon

Oh, is that the composition of the famous "Louman and his posse?" I'm not even going to go near this one... but it's good that you finally named names. I've been wondering who Louman's posse, to which you kept referring, were.


I'm one of the posse pala. That's okay as long as JoePeeps pronounce it right. :lol:

I have a posse? If you mean the Team Elitist Tagalista.

TAgALIzTa FO LIFE, *****z.

Masta Jopeepz: I didn't do anything to get all these people to attack you. It was your own words that did you in. Funny you think all I know about regarding the Filipino culture is the old Baybayin alphabet. I've learned a lot about our colonial culture ever since finding this BBS. However, we can't always be defined by our colonial past.

the heated exchanges and disunity in this thread is one of the best proof i have in saying "national language is not the solution to national unity". are we not speaking one language (english) in this thread? was it able to unite us?

real unity is something internal not external. we can take a look at other countries that are without any national language but are united because of what they possess within them. and that is, the sense of brotherhood, respect towards their fellow countrymen and tolerance towards those who have a different view.

so, i do not agree with those who believe that a national language will unite us. even the revival of spanish language would be unable to unite us. unity begins in our hearts, you cannot unite a nation, if the heart of the people is divided.

whether one is of chinese, spanish, japanese, american or malay ancestry. it doesn't matter. we are all filipino citizens, born and raised in this country. we should all love this country because this is our land, our nation, our home. and i believe we all love this country. don't we?

Well, since Mr. Bankaw here deemed it necessary to mention my handle in his post... aba e di buhayin natin ang bangkay.
Indeed!!! You've pointed out the problem perfectly well, coupled with insults, racial slurs and condescension. :no:
How convenient... an example of what I was just saying. Oh poor bankaw, what a burden greatness is! Tsk, tsk...
Good for you... in any case, if I'm not mistaken, you are proud to be american after all.
Oh, is that the composition of the famous "Louman and his posse?" I'm not even going to go near this one... but it's good that you finally named names. I've been wondering who Louman's posse, to which you kept referring, were. :ohno:
Me, ticked off by your criticism? Let's examine that for a second, shall we? When you say chinese, I assume you're referring to filipino-chinese. If that's the case, what does it matter then whether chinoys or pure filipinos dominate Philippine economy? Aren't they, in the end, both Filipinos anyway? Looking at it from this point of view, your so-called criticisms are nothing but an expression of thinly disguised anti-chinese sentiment.

Criticize if you will, but please provide (and base it on) actual facts, and not merely present half-cocked pronouncements based on your prejudices, ok?
Promise?
Ah, but you're missing the point, jose... it was never your name (nor the fact that it was bisayan) that wasn't being respected. It was the person behind the name and his belligerent attitude. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that respect can be earned and lost. Sadly, you've obviously lost mine... for whatever that's worth.
Forever, really? Are you sure?

Hmmm... let's see... a few posts later and he's back. Talk about credibility. vv

Leaving again? So soon? But are you really, really, really sure this time? Hate to say it but I've heard that before. So, you'll excuse me if I don't believe you.

Bangkay Pokemon

read amy tan's book. btw. ask any cart vendor on the street on who owns the philippine economy. who controls it. perhaps it might enlighten you. as for me losing your respect. thanks but no thanks. i'd rather be with my own people.

bangkay pokemon

I have a posse? If you mean the Team Elitist Tagalista.

TAgALIzTa FO LIFE, *****z.

Masta Jopeepz: I didn't do anything to get all these people to attack you. It was your own words that did you in. Funny you think all I know about regarding the Filipino culture is the old Baybayin alphabet. I've learned a lot about our colonial culture ever since finding this BBS. However, we can't always be defined by our colonial past.

actually there's only about three or maybe four of you. you can read what you like about my previous post. there was no rebuttal on the points i raised as i recall. the response was personal insults so i gave back what you deserved. which was sarcasm and nothing close to what your group did. btw. my words has no life of its own. it cannot very well attack me. you guys did it. as for not being defined by the colonial past. perhaps you should read your own history. america was defined by its colonial past. btw. its good that a filipino american like you is tagalizta fo life ( cant miss the slang ala hip hop that is cultural imperialism here). well, the feeling is mutual. i am bisaya for life.

mabuhi ang bisaya!

bangkay pokemon.

the heated exchanges and disunity in this thread is one of the best proof i have in saying "national language is not the solution to national unity". are we not speaking one language (english) in this thread? was it able to unite us?

real unity is something internal not external. we can take a look at other countries that are without any national language but are united because of what they possess within them. and that is, the sense of brotherhood, respect towards their fellow countrymen and tolerance towards those who have a different view.

so, i do not agree with those who believe that a national language will unite us. even the revival of spanish language would be unable to unite us. unity begins in our hearts, you cannot unite a nation, if the heart of the people is divided.

whether one is of chinese, spanish, japanese, american or malay ancestry. it doesn't matter. we are all filipino citizens, born and raised in this country. we should all love this country because this is our land, our nation, our home. and i believe we all love this country. don't we?

bukid, you may be right. mabuhi ang atung nasud bisaya.

bankaw

^^ As predicted, the bankaw is back. (Couldn't resist and stay away, could you?) :lol: And it seems like he's singing a different tune too. Well, whatever... everyone has a right to change their mind, I suppose.

actually there's only about three or maybe four of you. you can read what you like about my previous post. there was no rebuttal on the points i raised as i recall. the response was personal insults so i gave back what you deserved. which was sarcasm and nothing close to what your group did. btw. my words has no life of its own. it cannot very well attack me. you guys did it. as for not being defined by the colonial past. perhaps you should read your own history. america was defined by its colonial past. btw. its good that a filipino american like you is tagalizta fo life ( cant miss the slang ala hip hop that is cultural imperialism here). well, the feeling is mutual. i am bisaya for life.

mabuhi ang bisaya!

bangkay pokemon.

saan ka josepeeps noong kailangan ka namin ? noong ginawa nilang english at tagalog ang SSC :D

well, the issue for me has nothing to do with language alone. it has to do with our national culture, meaning the culture of the majority. language is part of culture. which is something that remains unappreciated and misunderstood because of lack of information and context. sure, we have ethnic minorities and my disagreement with those who dwell on what i call tribal fundamentalism is the narrow focus on it . when this happens we are left with an impression that makes the exception the rule. i think they are doing a disservice to filipino civilization when they do that. of course we must value our ethnic minorities because their nations are part of the filipino nation. however, we must not only be inclusive but also broader on how we view ourselves and what filipino identity means. i think that the tribal fundamentalism in trying to resurrect a way of life from the pre-hispanic past is not conducive to progress. even the remants of it such as our cultural minorities have already been influenced in many ways than what their own ancestors have been doing back in the pre-hispanic past..

my advocay for spanish is to preserve our own version of spanish. it is part of our national heritage and our national culture as much as the rest of our austronesian languages. we have filipino spanish and the recorded speech of quezon is one such proof. there is an evolution of that language among our educated elite and the masses through indigenized spanish words and the creation of various forms of chavacano. these are the languages that suffered a genocide with the introduction of tagalismo to our various nations. the idea being that a filipino needs a national language to become one nation and unfortunately a narrow concept of what filipino means. now, this tagalization by pretending that there is a national language called filipino (when in fact its still tagalog) threatens the existense of the rest of non-tagalog languages. many regions have suffered the same fate of filipino spanish. such as in davao, in mindoro, in palawan, etc. there is no place for them in the constitution. it is official policy to promote tagalog renamed "filipino" only and now the reimposition of english as means of instruction. i think there are other ways for our many nations to move forward without preserving the status quo. the only way we can build one nation in my opinion is not uniformity but an appreciation of our diversity sharing one ideal. english is not going to do it much less promote a remarkble improvement in the language capability of filipinos...

datu banco

i also believe that we should remove the "national language". the proclamation of "tagalog" as a national language is divisive. let's just adopt it as an official language or the language of government. i see nothing wrong with reviving spanish but we should not imposed it on other people and forced them to learn it like what they did with tagalog. though i agree that learning spanish is a big advantage especially in the U.S., my cousin studied spanish because in chicago there are many hispanics and you get better opportunity at getting a job when you can speak spanish. and many filipinos have also discovered that they can get discounts just by speaking in spanish with the hispanics because they will treat you like a "pariente de pais lejano".

Josepepe, my grandfather was chinese and when he migrated to the philippines, he worked hard just like the thousands of filipino immigrants that are now in many different countries. many who migrated to this country were poor people who were looking for green pasture just like the many filipinos that are now abroad. the economy of pinas may be dominated by the filipinos of chinese ancestry/ethnicity but i don't think they are being imperialists. they dominate because they are trained to be entrepreneurs and they are encouraged by their parents to be entrepreneurs. if there be bad chinese, there are also bad malay and bad kastila but as citizen of the philippines, we are all filipino. but being filipino doesnt mean we have to stop being bisaya, or being chinese or being ilokano.

the language they used was not english in interisland trading but our own local languages. in fact historically, chavacano was the the preferred language of commerce among the various nations of mindanao rather than english. as for education, i think that concepts are best taught during the formative years using your own ilocano or ivatan for example. english would have a place but not as an official language nor medium of instruction but as corollary to whatever optional subject each local area wants to put in place.


nuestro padre nos dijo que nuestro abuelo hablaba español cuando hacía negocios aun después de que la Segunda Guerra Mundial hubo terminado. Even till the 50's and late 60's they still use spanish or might be some form of spanish creole to communicate with suppliers and salesmen. my grandfather migrated to the philippines during the 1910's, during the american peroid to flee from the turmoil of the feudal society and the chaos caused by the civil war and nationalists revolution. but my greatgrandparents (my grandmother's parents) were already here in the philippines at the start of the american colonial period. and the lingua franca of the island that time was spanish.

Josepepe's true colors are coming out in the guise of national unity. When in fact he foments division among all Filipinos coming from all ethnic and regional backgrounds. His idea of Filipinos are only Visayans with Spanish influence. Is that what you call "your people"?

Before I happened on these threads, I have always thought of myself as Filipino (no identification as Tagalog, Visaya or what have you), it is only here that I have encountered such divisive ideas.

saan ka josepeeps noong kailangan ka namin ? noong ginawa nilang english at tagalog ang SSC :D

@Dinabaw: Before they laxened the implementation of that rule, it has always been English in SSC. Tagalog was mildly tolerated and Taglish was frowned upon. Only in Samahan was a combination of English and Tagalog used. In the main threads, English was the language used. The influx of the forumers from all over in the latter part of 2005 and the scarcity of the moderators caused that rule to be not fully implemented. Also, the reason behind the implementation of that rule is not really for "national unity". That is not the purpose of that. It is for facility and ease of communicating and understanding each other here in SSC because it is granted that the huge majority of us speak and understand English and Filipino (Tagalog.)

@Dinabaw: Before they laxened the implementation of that rule, it has always been English in SSC. Tagalog was mildly tolerated and Taglish was frowned upon. Only in Samahan was a combination of English and Tagalog used. In the main threads, English was the language used. The influx of the forumers from all over in the latter part of 2005 and the scarcity of the moderators caused that rule to be not fully implemented. Also, the reason behind the implementation of that rule is not really for "national unity". That is not the purpose of that. It is for facility and ease of communicating and understanding each other here in SSC because it is granted that the huge majority of us speak and understand English and Filipino (Tagalog.)

Exactly. Only through those languages Filipinos in general can understand each other and nothing else. I have been pointing this out way before since this was brought up - the functional aspects of the language. In the United States, Tagalog is now the 5th most spoken language by Filipinos from various ethnic and cultural backgrounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States

The volume of usage at home and abroad speaks for itself.

the heated exchanges and disunity in this thread is one of the best proof i have in saying "national language is not the solution to national unity". are we not speaking one language (english) in this thread? was it able to unite us?

real unity is something internal not external. we can take a look at other countries that are without any national language but are united because of what they possess within them. and that is, the sense of brotherhood, respect towards their fellow countrymen and tolerance towards those who have a different view.

so, i do not agree with those who believe that a national language will unite us. even the revival of spanish language would be unable to unite us. unity begins in our hearts, you cannot unite a nation, if the heart of the people is divided.

whether one is of chinese, spanish, japanese, american or malay ancestry. it doesn't matter. we are all filipino citizens, born and raised in this country. we should all love this country because this is our land, our nation, our home. and i believe we all love this country. don't we?


Well said.

^^ Sinjin explained to me its for "national unity" in speaking tagalog or english ,i am not against speaking english or tagalog my point is not speaking in our local tongue will lose the spontaneity of being a dabawenyo, cebuano or ilongo and imo we will not dwell in 2005 because passed that year SSC is now more dynamic.

I hope you got my feeling , i am not comfortable speaking w/ fellow Dabawenyo or Cebuano talking in straight Tagalog not that i can't, but it's just funny thinking of it , i hope you understand.

^^ Sinjin explained to me its for "national unity" in speaking tagalog or english ,i am not against speaking english or tagalog my point is not speaking in our local tongue will lose the spontaneity of being a dabawenyo, cebuano or ilongo and imo we will not dwell in 2005 because passed that year SSC is now more dynamic.

I hope you got my feeling , i am not comfortable speaking w/ fellow Dabawenyo or Cebuano talking in straight Tagalog not that i can't but it's just funny thinking of it , i hope you understand.

There's nothing wrong with that but I think its for the best interests of the Filipino forumers in general. No one is prohibited from expressing thoughts in their own language. Honestly, I believe many forumers here share the same feeling of alienation whenever encountering a thread they expected to be in the language that they can only understand (particularly Samahan) unless the thread is really for someone interesting in learning that language/dialect.

In the place where I work, I try my best to refrain from speaking Tagalog to my other Pinoy co-workers during my work time or even when we are around with non-Filipinos to make us appear more hospitable and accomodating.

^^ well you will be brigg then warned and ultimatly get banned ;)

Try to go outside of the Philippines and inititate a Tagalog conversation with the fellow Filipinos involving the non-Filipinos. Then, look at the reaction on their faces. I hope you get my point. ;)

National unity will only happen if you respect each other. Advancing one's agenda to the detriment of the other only causes chaos, upheaval, and animosity.

Though I still want Filipinos to learn Spanish,declaring Spanish as an official language alongside with Filipino and English could do no help at the moment. However, DEPED can implement optional Foreign Languages subjects in both private and public Elementary and High school. I'm sure Spanish will be one of the popular choice. :)

^ We have listened to him openly but he keeps on turning us off with his sometimes combative stance.

And Mr. Josepepe: okay, adjust the rays of the sun. But we are all the Sun which symbolizes HOPE for our nation. We are all represented in the stars: Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao. Give Filipino a chance to evolve to a more representative national language. Is it too odious to learn the language? You speak it. You speak your mother tongue. You speak Spanish and English. Does being able to speak and understand Tagalog govern your mind and ruin your identity? It does not. You actually have an advantage over Tagalogs who wish to be able to speak and understand Visaya. (We have always asked our father to speak to us in Waray but the only occasion we are able to converse is when there is a family gathering in the clan.)

So, write a book about the rightful place of the Visayans in Philippine History. I think this will be beneficial to all of us as a nation. Peace!



Very well said >>Does being able to speak and understand Tagalog govern your mind and ruin your identity? It does not. You actually have an advantage over Tagalogs who wish to be able to speak and understand Visaya.<<<

Heck, the Visayans are still is the largest ethnic groups in the Philippines right? They were not repressed and prevented from speaking their own mother tongue at home correct? So, How come Josepepe still feels he is losing his visayan identity?

Very well said >>Does being able to speak and understand Tagalog govern your mind and ruin your identity? It does not. You actually have an advantage over Tagalogs who wish to be able to speak and understand Visaya.<<<

Heck, the Visayans are still is the largest ethnic groups in the Philippines right? They were not repressed and prevented from speaking their own mother tongue at home correct? So, How come Josepepe still feels he is losing his visayan identity?

because the reality is, anyone who is proud of his tagalog roots and would boasts about the tagalog "greatness" (great literature, great poets, great heroes) and promote his tagalog culture with such vigor are called "nationalistic/patriotic" but a visayan who would do the same thing with his visayan are being branded as "regionalistic" and "divisive". this problem is a result of declaring one language as "national" and the rest as "local". it demoted the rest and gave the tagalistas the chance to promote their tagalog culture without being branded as "regionalistic" because they argue that it is a "national" language and anyone who promote a national language promotes national unity. and worst, many young visayans are now being taught that a pride in the "national" language as well as pride in the tagalog culture, literatures and history is "nationalism". but by doing so you have stripped our visayan citizens of their identity. that is why i am in favor of removing tagalog as the "national" language. we don't need a national language but tagalog can be used as an official language or language of government.

^^
Actually there were attempts to delineate what is considered national or official language in the same thread previous to this one. Go check the archive threads and you'll hopefully find it there. In the US, English is not even considered an official language, but a de facto one.

^^ Yes, this is why it is difficult to come into these discussions late in the day because we are going in circles. Paulit-ulit na lang. They were already discussed in previous threads.

But, yes, those are shared points of view.

I was one of the advocates of the reinstallation of Spanish as a national language before in this forum but after several months I thought what the hell is that going to do to our country, I guess none but to show fellow Asians that we were f**ked up really well by our colonizers. I've also learned a lesson: just to get over it. We already have English, the world's most spread language. Wag nang mangarap maging Kastila, masama din maging ambisyoso!

Oh well, I'm still for the return of Spanish. We can do it slowly anyway, even if it takes us a century. It's not illegal. It won't go against practicality as long as we don't rush it.

Hey, Rome wasn't built in one day!

Sorry to say, but the hell I care about what other Asians say! We're simply acknowledging our culture, which, whether people like it or not, is a blend of East and West in nearly all aspect - even in the language. We can't deny that. Spanish shaped this nation, the 7,107 islands we call Filipinas! Though not alone in doing that, the contributions of Spanish is inevitable. It can't disappear unappreciated just like that. And besides, it's what sets us apart from other Asians, along with our mentality and beliefs. It's an advantage, as I see it. It gives us more flexibility, especially when dealing with other cultures.

First of all, I'd like to apologize to all whom I 've offended. I realize now that my post may have been a bit too disparaging of the NCR region and its Tagalog-English emphasis. I did not mean to offend, least of all to sow discord among my fellow countrymen. First post ko pa naman, naka-inis na ako agad, patawad po!

To answer a specific query:

sige nga, give us examples. let us see if what you are saying is true. there are many visaya (mga cebuano) here. we will examine if what you are saying is true or maybe you are just talking about city slangs. i wont argue about chavano because i know chavano is a spanish creole so it would naturally be full of spanish in it.

"There are approximately 4,000 Spanish words in Tagalog, and around 6,000 Spanish words in Visayan and other dialects. The Spanish counting system, calendar, time, etc are still in use with slight modifications.

The language is maintained mostly by mestizo families, and thousands of people around the country, particularly in the province of Cebu and in the cities of Zamboanga and Bacolod. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language_in_the_Philippines

Also, kung tingnan ninyo ang mga terminologia ng FMA (arnis-escrima-kali) na karamihan galing sa Cebu at Panay, maraming mahahanap na salitang Espanol:

doce pares: "twelve pairs" (meant to signify 12 swordsmen who fought for medieval king Charlemagne, ALSO meant to signify the 12 basic strikes and blocks of the escrima system)

abecederio: "alphabet", meant to signify a system of exercises to help memorize strikes, footwork, and blocks

doble baston: "two canes" the famous arnis exercise of using two sticks simultaneously

espada y daga: "sword and dagger" adapted to the FMA tactical application of a short stick and long stick simultaneously.

pekiti tirsia: "pekiti" is local but "tirsia" is the Philippinized version of "tercia" or one-third, because practitioners of this form of FMA emphasize very close range fighting, at "one third" of the distance that people normally fight.

As for my own family's mother tongue, Ilocano:

"Ilokano uses a mixture of ilokano and spanish numbers. Traditionally ilokano numbers are used for quantities and spanish numbers for time of days and references."

" In recent times, there have been two systems in use: The "Spanish" system and the "Tagalog" system. In the Spanish system words of Spanish origin kept their spellings. Native words, on the other hand, conformed to the Spanish rules of spelling. Nowadays, only the older generation of Ilokanos use the Spanish system."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilokano_language

Again, ipagpaumanhin po ninyo ang aking unang post, kung may na-offend sa inyo. :pet:

I sure know that there are many advocates versus Tagalog here but I would just like to say something about this. Im not sure if we can still reverse Tagalog now as the national language simply because practically everyone can understand and speak it from the Babuyanes up to the last island of Sulu.

I am an advocate of the use of the native tongue (Cebuano, Ilokano, Chavacano, Ilonggo, etc) but I think there's just no way for us to stop the influence of Tagalog now because we hear it everyday in our clasrooms and even in the remotest parts of the country via television or other media. Let us just continue using it to understand each other in our diversity. Knowing another language aside from the native tongue is actually an advantage.

Of course, if given the chance, I would also like to learn to speak yet another language and that is Spanish because it has also ENRICHED our native languages. There's no denying that many Spanish words had been assimilated into our native languages that we just dont know they come from a foreign tongue.

Yes, English has opened many doors for us and in fact it is evident here in our discussions because we use it more than our local languages. It has also helped us communicate with facility to those who speak it. This is the same with Spanish which can actually help us understand more of other people who speak the same tongue.

because the reality is, anyone who is proud of his tagalog roots and would boasts about the tagalog "greatness" (great literature, great poets, great heroes) and promote his tagalog culture with such vigor are called "nationalistic/patriotic" but a visayan who would do the same thing with his visayan are being branded as "regionalistic" and "divisive". this problem is a result of declaring one language as "national" and the rest as "local". it demoted the rest and gave the tagalistas the chance to promote their tagalog culture without being branded as "regionalistic" because they argue that it is a "national" language and anyone who promote a national language promotes national unity. and worst, many young visayans are now being taught that a pride in the "national" language as well as pride in the tagalog culture, literatures and history is "nationalism". but by doing so you have stripped our visayan citizens of their identity. that is why i am in favor of removing tagalog as the "national" language. we don't need a national language but tagalog can be used as an official language or language of government.



Why? How much different is the tagalog culture from the visayans and the rest of the non-visayan/non tagalog regions? As far as I can see and what i've observed, only the languages/dialects are different, there maybe a slight difference in culture but as far as ways, food, traits religious practices with the exception of the muslim culture, remains the same . Is this accurate?

Somehow you have a point there There should also be an implementation of the regional dialects in school per regions. But, I think that probably would even get the philippine students behind, I understand that there is a decline in these area already, even in english language skills. How much more will the student could catch up if they have to worry about learning, spanish, english their regional languages. But, i'm sure the students would just see adding their regional languages in school curiculum as useless, just what Lili mentioned earlier in the discussion, that she used to tell herself "why do i need to study and learn tagalog, I speak it at home?"

The hispanized cultural influences are here to stay, it will never go away. But, being hispanized culture doesn't necessarily mean you have to speak it and be one, the filipinos might have shared the same similar tradition, religion and culture as the latinos but then the filipinos shares the same traits as other asian countries as well, that's what makes the filipino unique and different from the rest of the world, I should be proud to be filipino as a filipino and not influenced filipino because it is who you are.

This will just go back to what was earlier discussed in previous threads but, the Spaniards must have created the Philippines, as their colony, they claimed the ownership but I believe that the filipinos should recognize more a republic fought for by their own heroes, the filipinos who created their own nation. The era of colonization has long been gone and has forgiven the oppressors. Just move on. Help improve what you got and not confuse yourselves anymore, maybe this will help the country move forward and join the nations of the world in prosperity and development which the Philippines is lagging behind.

Instead of worrying what language I need to speak. What identity to follow? why don't we all work together as one and help build a stronger nation our forefather built for us.( okay, someone shouldn't raise their eyebrows when I say "I" it's just a figure of speech and it doesn't really mean I'm claiming something that is not rightfully mine)

the Spaniards must have created the Philippines, as their colony, they claimed the ownership but I believe that the filipinos should recognize more a republic fought for by their own heroes, the filipinos who created their own nation.

why don't we all work together as one and help build a stronger nation our forefather built for us.

I like this thought.

Ano sa palagay nyo kailangan ba palitan ang pangalang Philppines , sa aking pag kakaalam tayo na lang na Bansa na may banyagang pangalan , meron pa ba?

Ano sa palagay nyo kailangan ba palitan ang pangalang Philppines , sa aking pag kakaalam tayo na lang na Bansa na may banyagang pangalan , meron pa ba?

Nah, let it stay as it is. Kung papalitan man, maganda na siguro kung gawing Luzviminda ang pangalan. The people will be called Luzvimindians. :lol:

Ano sa palagay nyo kailangan ba palitan ang pangalang Philppines , sa aking pag kakaalam tayo na lang na Bansa na may banyagang pangalan , meron pa ba?

^^ Huh? I didn't get that? Can you please translate, I understood the changing the name Philippines into something else, but after that, I got lost in translation.

my bad sorry kimber imeant we change the name Philippines(which named after the king of Spain) to ....say Maharlika ,askal suggested Luzviminda :D i asked if there are still countries named after their colonial conqueror ? tama ba @askal :D

^^ Iceland, United Arab Emirates, Cook's Islands and Turkey. :lol:

Philippines or Pilipinas name is well know throughout the world already for its famous........ ahh... beautiful women. (nakalusot!)

my bad sorry kimber imeant we change the name Philippines(which named after the king of Spain) to ....say Maharlika ,askal suggested Luzviminda :D i asked if there are still countries named after their colonial conqueror ? tama ba @askal :D

Thanks! :okay:

Here are a few the comes to mind:

Bolivia - named after Simon Bolivar
Colombia - named after Christopher Columbus
Israel - named after the biblical Jacob
Marshall Islands - named after Captain John Marshall
Saudi Arabia - named after the Saud family, the royal/ruling monarchs
Seychelles - named after Jean Moreau de Sechelles

^^ Iceland, United Arab Emirates, Cook's Islands and Turkey. :lol:

Philippines or Pilipinas name is well know throughout the world already for its famous........ ahh... beautiful women. (nakalusot!)

at least nde tayo pinangalan sa pagkain. :lol:

Actually, Turk in Turkish means "strong." :colgate:

at least nde tayo pinangalan sa pagkain. :lol:

Hehehe, I love Rex's outlook on that.

http://rexnavarrete.blogs.com/photos/2000/rexexpress.jpg

http://rexnavarrete.blogs.com/photos/2000/rexexpress.html

"There are approximately 4,000 Spanish words in Tagalog, and around 6,000 Spanish words in Visayan and other dialects. The Spanish counting system, calendar, time, etc are still in use with slight modifications.

The language is maintained mostly by mestizo families, and thousands of people around the country, particularly in the province of Cebu and in the cities of Zamboanga and Bacolod. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language_in_the_Philippines

Also, kung tingnan ninyo ang mga terminologia ng FMA (arnis-escrima-kali) na karamihan galing sa Cebu at Panay, maraming mahahanap na salitang Espanol:

doce pares: "twelve pairs" (meant to signify 12 swordsmen who fought for medieval king Charlemagne, ALSO meant to signify the 12 basic strikes and blocks of the escrima system)

abecederio: "alphabet", meant to signify a system of exercises to help memorize strikes, footwork, and blocks

doble baston: "two canes" the famous arnis exercise of using two sticks simultaneously

espada y daga: "sword and dagger" adapted to the FMA tactical application of a short stick and long stick simultaneously.

pekiti tirsia: "pekiti" is local but "tirsia" is the Philippinized version of "tercia" or one-third, because practitioners of this form of FMA emphasize very close range fighting, at "one third" of the distance that people normally fight.

As for my own family's mother tongue, Ilocano:

"Ilokano uses a mixture of ilokano and spanish numbers. Traditionally ilokano numbers are used for quantities and spanish numbers for time of days and references."

" In recent times, there have been two systems in use: The "Spanish" system and the "Tagalog" system. In the Spanish system words of Spanish origin kept their spellings. Native words, on the other hand, conformed to the Spanish rules of spelling. Nowadays, only the older generation of Ilokanos use the Spanish system."

that is because you get that information from wikipedia. and the basis for their study was cebu, panay and zamboanga. and they probably based their conclusion from what they observed in the city. it is true that there are spanish influences in the visayan language but they have their original words for those things which were already part of the visayan culture.

in visayan, baston is tungkod or sungkod, while the spaniards have espada y daga, the visayans have "sundang ngan pisaw". some would still use the original counting system, i can still hear people from samar using napulo ngan usa for eleven. although they use kinyentos for 500, they use uskagatos for 100 and uskaribo for 1000.

Sunstar (http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/ceb/2003/06/29/oped/mayette.q..tabada.matamata.html)

Why? How much different is the tagalog culture from the visayans and the rest of the non-visayan/non tagalog regions? As far as I can see and what i've observed, only the languages/dialects are different, there maybe a slight difference in culture but as far as ways, food, traits religious practices with the exception of the muslim culture, remains the same . Is this accurate?

The hispanized cultural influences are here to stay, it will never go away. But, being hispanized culture doesn't necessarily mean you have to speak it and be one, the filipinos might have shared the same similar tradition, religion and culture as the latinos but then the filipinos shares the same traits as other asian countries as well, that's what makes the filipino unique and different from the rest of the world, I should be proud to be filipino as a filipino and not influenced filipino because it is who you are.

Instead of worrying what language I need to speak. What identity to follow? why don't we all work together as one and help build a stronger nation our forefather built for us.( okay, someone shouldn't raise their eyebrows when I say "I" it's just a figure of speech and it doesn't really mean I'm claiming something that is not rightfully mine)

language i believe is part of culture, and people's literatures and history is also part of culture. Does our schools teach our children and citizens about these non-tagalog literatures and oral history? or does it concentrate too much on what is tagalog like balagtas (balagtasan) and the heroes of the tagalog region? why are these non-tagalog literatures left out of the schools' filipino subject? most often, they'll argue that the national language is based on tagalog so we should introduced tagalog literatures so people would learn tagalog from those literatures to the exclusion of all others. even filipino history always give emphasis on tagalog achievements. you don't even need to teach them visayan language but i believe there is a need to teach them about their history, their literatures. the non-tagalogs, i believe, are only asking for equal treatment as fellow citizens of this republic, the proclamation of tagalog as "national" language has created a hierarchy where tagalog is deemed greater than the rest. and anyone who would not bow to tagalog is deemed unpatriotic, un-nationalistic, regionalistic and divisive. that is why there is a need to at least tear down that wall that separates tagalog from the rest.

The proclamation of tagalog as a national language had created inequality and injustice. it is like placing the tagalog in a sprawling villa while the rest are squeezed tightly into a small hut. you can take a look at our filipino subject and see how non-tagalogs are treated (in history, in literature, etc..) sabi pa nga ng isang taga-maynila na napansin din ang kakulangan ng ating systemang pang-aralan, sabi nya: "totoo may nababangit nga sa ating mga aralin tungkol sa mga bisaya at mga lumad ngunit ito ay pahapyaw lamang." taga-maynila at isang tagalog ang nagsabi nyan. at sa totoo lang hindi ko kaagad naintindihan ang katagang "pahapyaw" dahil napakalalim naman ng salitang yan hindi ko gaanong nasisid ang pakahulugan.

and so i believe we should remove the title bestowed on tagalog as the "national" language or the basis for the national language in order to avoid the divisive result of classifying one group as "national" and the other "local". let's begin a new chapter and level the field for all, tear down the walls so we can build bridges together.

again, this is only my point of view. and i have nothing against anyone even with those who disagree with me. :)

yes, i do agree we should work together to make this country stronger and better. but we also need to face the issues that are dividing us. and work together to find a solution.

"English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over, and goes through their pockets for loose grammar."









:lol:

i also believe that we should remove the "national language". the proclamation of "tagalog" as a national language is divisive. let's just adopt it as an official language or the language of government. i see nothing wrong with reviving spanish but we should not imposed it on other people and forced them to learn it like what they did with tagalog. though i agree that learning spanish is a big advantage especially in the U.S., my cousin studied spanish because in chicago there are many hispanics and you get better opportunity at getting a job when you can speak spanish. and many filipinos have also discovered that they can get discounts just by speaking in spanish with the hispanics because they will treat you like a "pariente de pais lejano".

Josepepe, my grandfather was chinese and when he migrated to the philippines, he worked hard just like the thousands of filipino immigrants that are now in many different countries. many who migrated to this country were poor people who were looking for green pasture just like the many filipinos that are now abroad. the economy of pinas may be dominated by the filipinos of chinese ancestry/ethnicity but i don't think they are being imperialists. they dominate because they are trained to be entrepreneurs and they are encouraged by their parents to be entrepreneurs. if there be bad chinese, there are also bad malay and bad kastila but as citizen of the philippines, we are all filipino. but being filipino doesnt mean we have to stop being bisaya, or being chinese or being ilokano.



nuestro padre nos dijo que nuestro abuelo hablaba español cuando hacía negocios aun después de que la Segunda Guerra Mundial hubo terminado. Even till the 50's and late 60's they still use spanish or might be some form of spanish creole to communicate with suppliers and salesmen. my grandfather migrated to the philippines during the 1910's, during the american peroid to flee from the turmoil of the feudal society and the chaos caused by the civil war and nationalists revolution. but my greatgrandparents (my grandmother's parents) were already here in the philippines at the start of the american colonial period. and the lingua franca of the island that time was spanish.

bukid,

i was trying my best not to post anything but i needed to add one more to clear something out. first, i think your ideas and mine are not that apart. its close.

now, to get to my point. there is a big difference between being chinese from being bisaya or from being tagalog or from being lumad. the last three are natives of the philippines while the first one is not.

i am not stopping anyone who are immigrants of the philippines to forget their heritage. that's not what i mean at all. however, if their purpose is to remain chinese then they should have remained in china where they can remain one. and i dont mean this in a negative way when i say it. i hope this is clear to other readers.

the chinese before them came to become filipinos and not to build walls around them. the chinese before them filipinized their names without erasing their origins, adopted the majority religion, spoke the language of their host regions and fully assimilated the native ways into their own immigrant background and vice versa.

in other words, bukid, they willingly allowed themselves to be changed by the country they called home and not the other way around. sure, they can speak chinese among themselves and celebrate the memory of their old country. i am not against their ethnicity. but it sure is difficult for me to accept that the native filipinos have to learn chinese in order for them to conduct business in the islands, accept their monopoly of the domestic economy over the natives (whom by the way were also pioneers and traders by tradition just like the chinese) and not create equal opportunity by not spreading that precious capital to the natives as well. in others words, the imperialism i pointed out is the structuring of the domestic economy in favor of their own fellow chinese. it pains me that a majority of our countrymen are mired in poverty, and whose only remedy in life other than leaving the country, is to remain perpetually hired hands in their companies. economic nationalism is also important and that goes for chinese immigrants as well as the native ones in the country.

btw. my maternal great grandfather's ancestral surname is sai. mabuhi ang atung nasud bisaya.

bankaw

@bukid and josepepe, nindot kaayo ang panagkukabildo kung punto por punto lang ang panaghisgutan ug dili ininsultohay. (it's good to talk about issues point by point and not resorting to hurling insults).

i certainly sympathize with you guys for your passion to keep your identity.

i congratulate our foreign ancestors (be they CHinese, American, Spanish, etc) who decided to live here and called the Philippines their home and the native Filipinos their brothers. but like you i also get pissed off with foreigners or mestizo Filipinos who take advantage of our people or who sneer our people in our own country.

if i can only have it my way, i would certainly bar the entry of racist foreingers in our country or those who claim to be Filipinos but who in fact do not have a drop of Filipino blood in their veins (you know them) and who have enriched themselves at the poverty of our people. these aliens do not deserve to be here so they should be deported to their country of origin.

i also hate Filipinos who look down on their brothers, too, particularly a few Northeners who claim superiority (not all) just because they come from the capital. for instance, i know of a Manileña who came down to Cebu to work and who snicker on Cebuanos and Bisayans as being laidback, which to me sounded like we were dumbrains.

mga hilas kaayo (sarap nga sapakin, to speak in their tongue.. hehe) but we have to keep our cool to show them that they're wrong.

@josepepe

ok, thanks for the making that clear. i know there are many filipino of chinese ancestry who also worked hard for the welfare of this country. they do not have any loyalty to china though they are proud of their ancestors achievements but in their heart they are filipino and this is their home, this is the country where they were born. speaking of natives, i think the only real natives are the aetas. many of the visayans and lumads are all immigrants from the south after the fall of the sri vjayan and majapahit empire. but that's just my point of view. despite certain differences, i agree, our opinions and ideas are not that apart.

as for the economic monopoly, The problem is with the economic policy of our government and the educational system. it must not be blamed on the filipinos of chinese ancestry. many chinese start as employees with small salaries but they really don't care because what was important is their entrepreneurial skills. their skill is their bargaining power. if you fire them or if they are not satisfied working in your company, they would just build their own business empire and be your competitor equipped with all the knowledge they got from their job experience in your company.

i don't think they'll require you to learn chinese to be able to conduct business in the island but if you can speak the language, it would make the transaction easier because it would enable them to express their thoughts easily and it builds rapport. just like the hispanics in america, or even filipinos. if you meet someone who speaks your language or share the same culture with you. you would often give them better price and even freebies. or you would feel more comfortable transacting business with them. So, Just like other companies that also require fluency in english, some also requires fluency in chinese but that is only a preference. your skills is still the best bargaining tool you have.

i agree that we should not build walls but bridges. assimilation and integration. kaisa para sa kaunlaran is doing a good job in promoting it among the tsinoys. in fact, they have many projects already with gawad kalinga, operation barrio schools and many more.. they also publish a chinese-filipino digest called "Tulay: a bridge of understanding between two cultures; a bridge of tolerance between two ages."


@Ang_Bantayanon

i agree with you. what we need is respect and a sense brotherhood. i respect you and you respect me. let me be proud of my heritage and ancestry without insulting yours. and whether chinese, spanish, american or malay, our loyalty should be with the land and country that nurtured us. and we should embrace the people of that land as our own brothers. we can speak two different languages and still be united because our hearts are united.

I have yet to read all of post but I´ll do it later. Anyway, this is what the Philippines should represent... respecting UNITY IN DIVERSITY!!!

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e132/restardo/Instituto%20Cervantes/poster.jpg

Ang tema ng selibreysyon ng Buwan ng Wika ngayong taon ay: "Ang Buwan ng Wikang Pambansa ay Buwan ng mga Wika sa Pilipinas (sic)".

May 171ng mga langwij sa Filipinas, apat ay ikinokosider nang patay (Agta Dicamay, Agta Villa Viciosa, Ayta Tayabas at Katabaga). Halos lahat ay kabilang sa Western Malayo-Polynesian langwij grup ng Austronesian langwij famili (igzept hal. Chavacano, Philippine Sign Language atbp.). Ang 12 dito ay mga meyjor rijonal langwij na may higit sa isang milyon ang gumagamit: Tagalog, Cebuano, Ilokano, Hiligaynon, Waray-Waray, Bikol, Kapampangan, Pangasinan, Kinaray-a, Maranao, Maguindanao, at Tausug.

Kung Bakit Nagmura Ako ng Putang Ina sa Buwan ng Wika O ang Diskurso ng Kapangyarihan/Pulitika ng Tunggalian sa Filipino Bilang Wikang Pambansa

Magandang umaga sa ating lahat. Nagpapasalamat ako sa paanyayang ipinaabot sa akin bilang tagapanayam sa programang ito. Nais kong banggitin na ang programa ay parehong nakakatuwa at nakakalungkot. Huwag kayong magugulat sa sinabi kong ito. Ako man minsa’y nagugulat din sa mga sinasabi ko. Natutuwa ako sapagkat may inilaang panahon ang pinakamalaking unibersidad sa Timog Katagalugan upang ipagdiwang ang Buwan ng Wika. Ibig sabihin, sa aking palagay, mahalaga sa inyong unibersidad ang anda (function) ng wika sa pagsusulong ng kahusayang pang-akademya. Nalulungkot ako dahil ipinagdiriwang pa natin ito. Ibig sabihin lamang, mabuway pa ang ating Pambansang Wika. Kinakailangang taon-taon, paalalahanan tayo na Filipino ang ating wikang pambansa. Sa mga bansang Hapon, Pransya, Thailand, Malaysia, Rusya at iba pa, wala silang katulad na pagdiriwang. Hindi dahil sa wala silang pagmamahal sa kanilang pambansang wika kung hindi dahil sa ganap ng pambansa ang kanilang wika kung kaya’t hindi na kinakailangan pa ang mandato ng estado upang ipagdiwang ang kayamanan at kapangyarihan ng kanilang wika. Astig na ang mga wika nila, kumbaga.

Kanina, habang sakay ako ng JAC Liner, may nakasakay akong nagtapos ng nursing sa isa sa mga paaralan dito sa Lucena. Nakapasa na raw siya sa board. Ang inaatupag niya ngayo’y pagrereview ng kanyang Ingles upang makatungo na sa Estados Unidos. Kukuha siya ng TESL at iba pang pagsusulit. Habang nagkukuwentuhan kami, panay ang kanyang Ingles. Nang dumaan ang konduktor, dahil hindi pa siya nasusuklian, bumanat siya ng: Excuse me, I have not received my change yet. Hmmm. Sabi ko, my cockney accent na ang epal. Mukhang nag-aral sa Dela Salle sa Maynila. Bumaba siya sa malapit sa Diversion samantalang ako’y tumungo ng Grand Central Terminal. Habang nagpapalipas ako ng oras sa Greenwhich at ginagawa ang papel kong ito, naisip ko, sadya nga yatang napakahalaga na ng Ingles. Kung hindi ka marunong mag-Ingles, limitado ang iyong oportunidad. Ang wika’y sandata at ang Ingles ay bazooka.

Tayo ay nasa panahon na di-maampat na globalisasyon. Sa Philcoa, lugar na sakayan patungong Unibersidad ng Pilipinas, sangkatutak ang nakabalandrang ponkan. Wala ng nagtitindang dalanghita. Nang minsang mapagawi ako sa isang bilihan ng sapatos sa Rockwell, isang upscale shopping mall sa Maynila, ang Nike at Adidas ay gawa sa China, Vietnam at Indonesia. Sa isang linang sa aming bayan, habang binabagtas namin ang daan patungong bundok, nakakita ako ng isang basyo ng mineral water, Evian ang tatak. Imported galing Pransya ang mineral water na ito. At ng minsan namang dalahin ako ng aking mga paa mulang Maharlika Hi-Way patungong SM City Lucena, ang Lander na handwash na nabili ko sa SM City North Edsa'y naroroon din. Tila nga wala ng pinipiling lugar ang globalisasyon.

Sa pambansang sandali ng ating kasaysayang ito, bakit kinakailangan pa nating palakasin ang ating pambansang wika habang nag-aaral tayo ng iba pang mga wika?

Himatong ng aking argumento na dapat tayong makialam sa pagbubuo ng pambansang identidad. Ito’y hamong kailangang tugunan nating lahat. Sa pagkatunaw ng mga muhon ng pagkakaiba bunsod ng walang humpay na Hollywoodization at McDonaldization ng ating bansa, laging angkop na pagpursigihan ang paggamit ng wikang Filipino upang itampok ang ating pambansang kaakuhan. Naririyan na ang globalisasyon. Walang makakatakas dito. Testamento nito ang SM City Lucena at ang mga shop na nasa loob nito. Pinapatay nito ang lokal na industriya. Noong maliit pa ako, ang puntahan namin ay Padillo, Ramchand, Recio, Hacienda Inn at kapag kakaiin ng siopao, ang tungo’y sa Kachina. Ngayon, iisa na ang takbo ng paa: SM City Lucena.

Noong nakaraang taon, nagpalabas ng kautusan si Pangulong Gloria Macapagal Arroyo na lalo pang pasiglahin ang pagtuturo ng Ingles sa mga mag-aaral sa elementarya at hayskul. Ang atin daw kasing kahusayan sa wikang ito ang ating advantahe sa iba pang mga bansa sa Asya. Ang sabi pa ng kanyang mga chuwariwap, mahalaga daw ito sa pagpapahusay ng ating ekonomiya. Ibig sabihin, sa simpleng termino, kapag napakahusay natin sa Ingles, malaki ang posibilidad, yes, citizens of Enverga Republic, believe it or not, uunlad ang ating bansa. Nang marinig ko ito, nautot ako.

Ang kahusayan sa Ingles ay hindi katapat ng kaunlaran sa ekonomiya. Hindi ko alam kung bakit sangkatutak ng datos ang lumabas ay hindi pa rin ito matanggap ng marami sa ating mga Filipino, partikular na yaong mga nasa gobyerno. Hindi ko batid kung nag-jo-joke-joke lamang sila o talagang ang mga IQ nila ay IQ ng lamok.

Walang duda na kailangan natin ang Ingles. Walang duda na mahalaga ang Ingles. Subalit, dito man ay marami nang mga maling akala tungkol sa kahalagahan ng wikang ito. Isa sa mga maling akalang ito ay ang maling paniniwalang ang Ingles ay ang susi sa kaunlarang pang-ekonomiya.

Ating tingnan halimbawa ang ilang datos ng ating kontemporanyong kasaysayan na magpapabulaan sa guni-guing ito

Nilagpasan na tayo ng Thailand, maniwala man kayo o hindi. Noong magkapalad akong mabisita ito noong 2000 bilang grantee ng Pamahalaang Hapon, kapag lalabas ako ng hotel room ko at mag-iiwan ng impormasyon sa front desk, lumalabas ang kagalingan ko sa pagdo-drawing. Hindi kasi sila mahusay mag-Ingles. Minsan sa inis ko, hindi lang ako nagdrawing upang ipaliwanag ko sa front desk na aalis ako sandali, pero babalik din at kung may dumating ay sabihing maghintay, kinulayan ko pa ang aking drawing with matching smiley. Paglumabas naman ng hotel, ang babalandra sa iyo ay mga direksyong nakasulat sa kanilang wika, sulat-bulate, sabi nga. Ang mga nakasama ko mulang Chulalongkorn University, pagnag-uusap kami, sign language. Pero, anak naman ng pating, tingnan ninyo ang kanilang ekonomiya ngayon. Kung sila ay tiger economy na, tayo, kuting pa rin. Ang isang taong bilang ng ating mga turistang bumibisita, isang buwan lang sa kanila. At Ripley’s Believe it or Not, ang Thailand ang ikalawa sa Japan sa buong Southeast at South Asia pagdating sa computer technology. Ang website halimbawa ng Chulalongkorn University, dalawa ang version: isang nasa Ingles at isang nasa kanilang wika. Sa atin, kabilang na ang UP, ang website lahat nasa Ingles.

Sa mga nakalipas na taong pilit na isinasaksak sa atin ng mga baliw nating opisyal sa pamahalaan na Ingles ang gamiting wika sapagkat ito ang magsasalba sa atin sa kahirapan, ito ang ating kinasadlakan.

Malinaw sa ating kasaysayan na ang Ingles ay hindi lamang naging paraan ng komunikasyon kundi paraan ng kolonisasyon. Ang Ingles ay hindi naging paraan para sa pag-uusap ng mga mamamayan. Naging paraan ito para sa paghahati-hati ng mga mamamayan. Ang tanging diyalogo na ginawa nito ay ang diyalogo sa pagitan ng pamahalaang kolonyal at ng lokal na naghaharing uri. Kasunod sa kaputian ng lahat, ang galing sa paggamit ng Ingles ay naging pasaporte sa sirkulo ng kapangyarihan.

Matagal ng sinasabi ng mga dalubhasa sa wika na mahalagang maituro ang mga batayang kaalaman sa matematika, agham at teknolohiya sa sariling wika, Filipino man o Cebuano. Subalit hanggang sa ngayon, iilan pa lamang ang gumagawa nito. Sa UP Integrated School halimbawa, itinuturo ang matematika, pisika, kemistri at ekonomiya sa wikang Filipino. Nang magsagawa ng pagsusulit, yaong mga nag-aaral gamit ang Filipino ay mas mataas ang nakuha kasya sa yaong ang gamit ay Ingles. Ayon din sa mga guro, biglang dumami ang tanong ng mga mag-aaral sa inertia, equilibrium at thermodynamics sapagkat mahusay nilang naipapaliwanag ang kanilang mga sarili. Sa mga klaseng ang gamit ay Ingles, boses lamang ng guro ang naririnig.

Magbanggit pa ako ng isang halimbawa. Palasak na ang usapin tungkol sa Third International Math and Science Study (TIMMS) pero gagamitin ko pa rin itong halimbawa para makita natin ang halaga ng sariling wika kaugnay ng pagtuturo ng agham at matematika.

Noong 1997, binigyan ng test sa agham at matematika ang ilang piling estudyante sa hay-iskul mula sa 71 bansa kasama ang Pilipinas. Ang resulta, sa Math, walang bansang nagsasalita ng Ingles ang napabilang sa TOP 10. Samantala sa Science, tanging ang Inglatera lamang ang pumasok at pangsampu pa. Nanguna sa eksameng ito ang mga non-English speaking na bansa katulad ng Japan, South Korea, Czech Republic, Slovakia at Bulgaria. Ang US ay pang 28 sa Math at ika-17 naman sa Science. Ang Pilipinas ay hindi umabot sa listahang inilathala. Nasa likod tayo ng South Africa, Kuwait at Colombia. Nakakaiyak Kuya Cesar.

Sa mga bansang mauunlad, kahanga-hanga ang kanilang pagmamahal sa kanilang wika. Sa Malaysia, ang mga pabatid sa trapiko ay nasa wikang Bahasa Malaysia. Sa kanilang mga bookstore, ang mga aklat ay nasa wika nila. Ang tawag sa Silicon Valley nila, Cyber Jaya at ang sentro ng kapangyarihan, Putra Jaya. Tayo, panay Ingles ang titulo, no left turn, industrial park at no swerving. Nang makabisita ako sa Alemanya at Pransya para sa kumperensya, ang mga aklat na mayroon sila ay nasa kanilang wika. Mayroon pa nga akong nakitang aklat ni F. Sionil Jose, isa mga higante ng ating panitikan, na nasa wikang Pranses. Nang dumalo ako sa magkahiwalay na panayam sa Universite de Paris-Sorbonne at College de France, nagbigay ng panayam ang pangunahing intelektwal nila na si Peirre Bourdieu sa Pranses kahit pa nga kalimitan ng nakikinig ay mga banyaga. Ang kanilang dahilan, aralin mo ang aming wika kung nais mong alamin ang nais naming sabihin. Nasa wika namin ang aming karungunan at wala sa iba. Wala man akong naitindihan kundi ang mga salitang maidemoselle, moinseur at, comment sava, naramdaman ko naman ang kanilang pagmamaghal sa wika.

Sa ating bansa, ramdam natin ang valorisasyon o sobrang pagpapahalaga wikang Inggles. Naghuhumiyaw ang katotohanang ito. Kapag magaling ka sa Ingles, matalino ka, at pag hindi, bobo. Muli, gusto kong mautot. Kapag balubaluktot ang Filipino katulad ng Filipino ni Vanessa del Bianco, cute, kapag balubaluktot ang Ingles, tumataginting na The Coconut-nut is a giant nut, BOBO. Kilitiin nyo ako, ayaw kong maiyak. Ipinaliwanag na ni Renato Constantino ang implikasyon ng ganitong kaisipan sa kanyang sanaysay na “The Miseducation of the Filipino”, subalit hanggang ngayon, hindi pa rin tayo matuto.

Kalimitan, sa mga unibersidad, second class citizen ang mga nagtuturo ng Filipino. Mas mataas ang pagkilala sa mga nagtuturo ng Ingles. Lagi’t lagi, sila ang ipinapadala sa mga kumperensya at pinapakinggan sa mga pagpupulong at pagbibigay ng desisyon. Ito ang reklamo ng mga guro sa ilang unibersidad na aking nabisita sa Visayas. Kalimitan daw, kapag Filipino ang subject, ibinibigay na lamang kahit kanino. Ang reklamo ng isa, PE ang kanyang tinapos, bigla siyang pinagturo ng Filipino. Paano nga naman siya magtuturo ng mahusay kung hindi naman niya gamay ang subject? Naranasan ko na rin ito minsan. Sa isang kumperensya, may nakalapit akong babaeng guro. Paumanhin sa mga babae pero babae talaga siya, may makapal na salamin, pinahiran ng crayola ang mukha, nakapusod na buhok at masansang na amoy ng pabango, amoy albatross. Teacher daw siya ng Ingles. And she likes daw Shakespeare ang James Joyce and all those western writers, hahahaha. Ano ba daw ang itinuturo ko at sino ang favorite writer ko, sabi ko Flipino. Namilog ang kanyang mga mata, humikab, tinanggal ang salamin at nagwikang: Oh really, so you teach sugnay, pang-uri, pangdiwa, at Balarila ni Lope K. Santos, hahahahaha. Ano ba daw ang Filipino sa French fries, piniritong Pranses, Hahahaha. Kung may hawak akong bomba atomika, ginawa ko ng Nagasaki at Hiroshima ang bunganga niya. Pero dahil gumagalang ako sa matatanda partikular na yaong mga amoy lupa, ngumiti ako. Ang sabi ko, walang literal na translation kasi wala naman sa ating kultura ang pagpipirito ng patatas. Eh di gamitin ang French Fries, sabi ko. Bilang pagresbak, sinabi ko naman na itranslate niya sa Ingles ang bikang-bikang, minukmok at sinaludsod. Bigla siyang natahimik. Ako naman ang nagtawa. Hahahahaha. Maya-maya, tinawag na ako para sa pagbasa ng aking papel. Ang papel ko’y ukol sa problematisasyon ng espasyo bilang larang ng pulitika gamit ang dalumat sa lunan ni Henri Lefebvre isang teorisistang Franses. Nang matapos na akong magbasa, muli akong nilapitan ni Miss Tapia. Nakangiting-nakangiti siya. Ang ganda-ganda raw ng papel ko. Hindi niya naintindihan. Malalim daw kasi ang Filipino ko. Ngayon, hindi na ako mabait, gusto ko na siyang ilibing ng buhay. Ang sagot ko sa kanya. “Hindi po malalim ang aking Filipino. Mababaw lang talaga kayo.”

Ito ang kasawian ng ating bansa. Hanggang ngayon, ang tingin sa Filipino’y wika ng mga katulong, pahinante sa dyip, kargador sa pier, maglalako ng pansit at taho. Hindi maisip ng mga Ingleserang Frankenstein at Dona Victorina na maaari ng gamitin ang Filipino sa mga diskurso at larang nga teorisasyon katulad ng hermenyutika, semiotika, post-istrukturalismo, post-kolonyalismo, konseptong habitus ni Pierre Boudieu, panopticon ni Michel Foucault at gahum/hegemonya ni Antonio Gramsci. Kawawa naman ang mga taong ito. Gusto kong maiyak para sa kanila.

Subalit hindi ko sinasabi na kalimutan na natin ang Ingles. Mali kasi ang pag-iisip ng marami na sa pagpapalakas ng Pambansang Wika, pinapahina ang Ingles. Tumataginting itong kauluan at kabobohan na walang kapantay. Dagdagan ko pa, super duper mega katangahan. Ayon nga kay F. Sionil Jose, wala ng makakapigil sa pagtatampok sa Filipino bilang pambansang wika. Laganap na ito sa media. Paano ba nakilala ng mga taga Visayas at Mindanao sina Dao Ming Zhi, San Chai, Marinara at Mulawin? Sa telebisyon at ano ang gamit na wika? Filipino.

Ito ang hamon sa ating lahat, ang pagtatampok sa wikang Filipino bilang pambansang wika sa lahat ng aspeto ng buhay, mulang akademya hanggang bahay. Sa panahon ng rumaragasang globalisasyon at homogenisasyon ng mga kultura, tanging Filipino ang ating pag-asa. Kaya naman, kapag ako’y nagagalit, hindi ako sumisigaw ng Fuck You, Putang Ina ang sinasabi ko.

Hindi po ako nagmumura. Fish Tayo. Maraming salamat.

http://filipinayzd.i.ph/blogs/filipinayzd/2006/08/

Kung Bakit Nagmura Ako ng Putang Ina sa Buwan ng Wika O ang Diskurso ng Kapangyarihan/Pulitika ng Tunggalian sa Filipino Bilang Wikang Pambansa

Magandang umaga sa ating lahat. Nagpapasalamat ako sa paanyayang ipinaabot sa akin bilang tagapanayam sa programang ito. Nais kong banggitin na ang programa ay parehong nakakatuwa at nakakalungkot. Huwag kayong magugulat sa sinabi kong ito. Ako man minsa’y nagugulat din sa mga sinasabi ko. Natutuwa ako sapagkat may inilaang panahon ang pinakamalaking unibersidad sa Timog Katagalugan upang ipagdiwang ang Buwan ng Wika. Ibig sabihin, sa aking palagay, mahalaga sa inyong unibersidad ang anda (function) ng wika sa pagsusulong ng kahusayang pang-akademya. Nalulungkot ako dahil ipinagdiriwang pa natin ito. Ibig sabihin lamang, mabuway pa ang ating Pambansang Wika. Kinakailangang taon-taon, paalalahanan tayo na Filipino ang ating wikang pambansa. Sa mga bansang Hapon, Pransya, Thailand, Malaysia, Rusya at iba pa, wala silang katulad na pagdiriwang. Hindi dahil sa wala silang pagmamahal sa kanilang pambansang wika kung hindi dahil sa ganap ng pambansa ang kanilang wika kung kaya’t hindi na kinakailangan pa ang mandato ng estado upang ipagdiwang ang kayamanan at kapangyarihan ng kanilang wika. Astig na ang mga wika nila, kumbaga.

Kanina, habang sakay ako ng JAC Liner, may nakasakay akong nagtapos ng nursing sa isa sa mga paaralan dito sa Lucena. Nakapasa na raw siya sa board. Ang inaatupag niya ngayo’y pagrereview ng kanyang Ingles upang makatungo na sa Estados Unidos. Kukuha siya ng TESL at iba pang pagsusulit. Habang nagkukuwentuhan kami, panay ang kanyang Ingles. Nang dumaan ang konduktor, dahil hindi pa siya nasusuklian, bumanat siya ng: Excuse me, I have not received my change yet. Hmmm. Sabi ko, my cockney accent na ang epal. Mukhang nag-aral sa Dela Salle sa Maynila. Bumaba siya sa malapit sa Diversion samantalang ako’y tumungo ng Grand Central Terminal. Habang nagpapalipas ako ng oras sa Greenwhich at ginagawa ang papel kong ito, naisip ko, sadya nga yatang napakahalaga na ng Ingles. Kung hindi ka marunong mag-Ingles, limitado ang iyong oportunidad. Ang wika’y sandata at ang Ingles ay bazooka.

Tayo ay nasa panahon na di-maampat na globalisasyon. Sa Philcoa, lugar na sakayan patungong Unibersidad ng Pilipinas, sangkatutak ang nakabalandrang ponkan. Wala ng nagtitindang dalanghita. Nang minsang mapagawi ako sa isang bilihan ng sapatos sa Rockwell, isang upscale shopping mall sa Maynila, ang Nike at Adidas ay gawa sa China, Vietnam at Indonesia. Sa isang linang sa aming bayan, habang binabagtas namin ang daan patungong bundok, nakakita ako ng isang basyo ng mineral water, Evian ang tatak. Imported galing Pransya ang mineral water na ito. At ng minsan namang dalahin ako ng aking mga paa mulang Maharlika Hi-Way patungong SM City Lucena, ang Lander na handwash na nabili ko sa SM City North Edsa'y naroroon din. Tila nga wala ng pinipiling lugar ang globalisasyon.

Sa pambansang sandali ng ating kasaysayang ito, bakit kinakailangan pa nating palakasin ang ating pambansang wika habang nag-aaral tayo ng iba pang mga wika?

Himatong ng aking argumento na dapat tayong makialam sa pagbubuo ng pambansang identidad. Ito’y hamong kailangang tugunan nating lahat. Sa pagkatunaw ng mga muhon ng pagkakaiba bunsod ng walang humpay na Hollywoodization at McDonaldization ng ating bansa, laging angkop na pagpursigihan ang paggamit ng wikang Filipino upang itampok ang ating pambansang kaakuhan. Naririyan na ang globalisasyon. Walang makakatakas dito. Testamento nito ang SM City Lucena at ang mga shop na nasa loob nito. Pinapatay nito ang lokal na industriya. Noong maliit pa ako, ang puntahan namin ay Padillo, Ramchand, Recio, Hacienda Inn at kapag kakaiin ng siopao, ang tungo’y sa Kachina. Ngayon, iisa na ang takbo ng paa: SM City Lucena.

Noong nakaraang taon, nagpalabas ng kautusan si Pangulong Gloria Macapagal Arroyo na lalo pang pasiglahin ang pagtuturo ng Ingles sa mga mag-aaral sa elementarya at hayskul. Ang atin daw kasing kahusayan sa wikang ito ang ating advantahe sa iba pang mga bansa sa Asya. Ang sabi pa ng kanyang mga chuwariwap, mahalaga daw ito sa pagpapahusay ng ating ekonomiya. Ibig sabihin, sa simpleng termino, kapag napakahusay natin sa Ingles, malaki ang posibilidad, yes, citizens of Enverga Republic, believe it or not, uunlad ang ating bansa. Nang marinig ko ito, nautot ako.

Ang kahusayan sa Ingles ay hindi katapat ng kaunlaran sa ekonomiya. Hindi ko alam kung bakit sangkatutak ng datos ang lumabas ay hindi pa rin ito matanggap ng marami sa ating mga Filipino, partikular na yaong mga nasa gobyerno. Hindi ko batid kung nag-jo-joke-joke lamang sila o talagang ang mga IQ nila ay IQ ng lamok.

Walang duda na kailangan natin ang Ingles. Walang duda na mahalaga ang Ingles. Subalit, dito man ay marami nang mga maling akala tungkol sa kahalagahan ng wikang ito. Isa sa mga maling akalang ito ay ang maling paniniwalang ang Ingles ay ang susi sa kaunlarang pang-ekonomiya.

Ating tingnan halimbawa ang ilang datos ng ating kontemporanyong kasaysayan na magpapabulaan sa guni-guing ito

Nilagpasan na tayo ng Thailand, maniwala man kayo o hindi. Noong magkapalad akong mabisita ito noong 2000 bilang grantee ng Pamahalaang Hapon, kapag lalabas ako ng hotel room ko at mag-iiwan ng impormasyon sa front desk, lumalabas ang kagalingan ko sa pagdo-drawing. Hindi kasi sila mahusay mag-Ingles. Minsan sa inis ko, hindi lang ako nagdrawing upang ipaliwanag ko sa front desk na aalis ako sandali, pero babalik din at kung may dumating ay sabihing maghintay, kinulayan ko pa ang aking drawing with matching smiley. Paglumabas naman ng hotel, ang babalandra sa iyo ay mga direksyong nakasulat sa kanilang wika, sulat-bulate, sabi nga. Ang mga nakasama ko mulang Chulalongkorn University, pagnag-uusap kami, sign language. Pero, anak naman ng pating, tingnan ninyo ang kanilang ekonomiya ngayon. Kung sila ay tiger economy na, tayo, kuting pa rin. Ang isang taong bilang ng ating mga turistang bumibisita, isang buwan lang sa kanila. At Ripley’s Believe it or Not, ang Thailand ang ikalawa sa Japan sa buong Southeast at South Asia pagdating sa computer technology. Ang website halimbawa ng Chulalongkorn University, dalawa ang version: isang nasa Ingles at isang nasa kanilang wika. Sa atin, kabilang na ang UP, ang website lahat nasa Ingles.

Sa mga nakalipas na taong pilit na isinasaksak sa atin ng mga baliw nating opisyal sa pamahalaan na Ingles ang gamiting wika sapagkat ito ang magsasalba sa atin sa kahirapan, ito ang ating kinasadlakan.

Malinaw sa ating kasaysayan na ang Ingles ay hindi lamang naging paraan ng komunikasyon kundi paraan ng kolonisasyon. Ang Ingles ay hindi naging paraan para sa pag-uusap ng mga mamamayan. Naging paraan ito para sa paghahati-hati ng mga mamamayan. Ang tanging diyalogo na ginawa nito ay ang diyalogo sa pagitan ng pamahalaang kolonyal at ng lokal na naghaharing uri. Kasunod sa kaputian ng lahat, ang galing sa paggamit ng Ingles ay naging pasaporte sa sirkulo ng kapangyarihan.

Matagal ng sinasabi ng mga dalubhasa sa wika na mahalagang maituro ang mga batayang kaalaman sa matematika, agham at teknolohiya sa sariling wika, Filipino man o Cebuano. Subalit hanggang sa ngayon, iilan pa lamang ang gumagawa nito. Sa UP Integrated School halimbawa, itinuturo ang matematika, pisika, kemistri at ekonomiya sa wikang Filipino. Nang magsagawa ng pagsusulit, yaong mga nag-aaral gamit ang Filipino ay mas mataas ang nakuha kasya sa yaong ang gamit ay Ingles. Ayon din sa mga guro, biglang dumami ang tanong ng mga mag-aaral sa inertia, equilibrium at thermodynamics sapagkat mahusay nilang naipapaliwanag ang kanilang mga sarili. Sa mga klaseng ang gamit ay Ingles, boses lamang ng guro ang naririnig.

Magbanggit pa ako ng isang halimbawa. Palasak na ang usapin tungkol sa Third International Math and Science Study (TIMMS) pero gagamitin ko pa rin itong halimbawa para makita natin ang halaga ng sariling wika kaugnay ng pagtuturo ng agham at matematika.

Noong 1997, binigyan ng test sa agham at matematika ang ilang piling estudyante sa hay-iskul mula sa 71 bansa kasama ang Pilipinas. Ang resulta, sa Math, walang bansang nagsasalita ng Ingles ang napabilang sa TOP 10. Samantala sa Science, tanging ang Inglatera lamang ang pumasok at pangsampu pa. Nanguna sa eksameng ito ang mga non-English speaking na bansa katulad ng Japan, South Korea, Czech Republic, Slovakia at Bulgaria. Ang US ay pang 28 sa Math at ika-17 naman sa Science. Ang Pilipinas ay hindi umabot sa listahang inilathala. Nasa likod tayo ng South Africa, Kuwait at Colombia. Nakakaiyak Kuya Cesar.

Sa mga bansang mauunlad, kahanga-hanga ang kanilang pagmamahal sa kanilang wika. Sa Malaysia, ang mga pabatid sa trapiko ay nasa wikang Bahasa Malaysia. Sa kanilang mga bookstore, ang mga aklat ay nasa wika nila. Ang tawag sa Silicon Valley nila, Cyber Jaya at ang sentro ng kapangyarihan, Putra Jaya. Tayo, panay Ingles ang titulo, no left turn, industrial park at no swerving. Nang makabisita ako sa Alemanya at Pransya para sa kumperensya, ang mga aklat na mayroon sila ay nasa kanilang wika. Mayroon pa nga akong nakitang aklat ni F. Sionil Jose, isa mga higante ng ating panitikan, na nasa wikang Pranses. Nang dumalo ako sa magkahiwalay na panayam sa Universite de Paris-Sorbonne at College de France, nagbigay ng panayam ang pangunahing intelektwal nila na si Peirre Bourdieu sa Pranses kahit pa nga kalimitan ng nakikinig ay mga banyaga. Ang kanilang dahilan, aralin mo ang aming wika kung nais mong alamin ang nais naming sabihin. Nasa wika namin ang aming karungunan at wala sa iba. Wala man akong naitindihan kundi ang mga salitang maidemoselle, moinseur at, comment sava, naramdaman ko naman ang kanilang pagmamaghal sa wika.

Sa ating bansa, ramdam natin ang valorisasyon o sobrang pagpapahalaga wikang Inggles. Naghuhumiyaw ang katotohanang ito. Kapag magaling ka sa Ingles, matalino ka, at pag hindi, bobo. Muli, gusto kong mautot. Kapag balubaluktot ang Filipino katulad ng Filipino ni Vanessa del Bianco, cute, kapag balubaluktot ang Ingles, tumataginting na The Coconut-nut is a giant nut, BOBO. Kilitiin nyo ako, ayaw kong maiyak. Ipinaliwanag na ni Renato Constantino ang implikasyon ng ganitong kaisipan sa kanyang sanaysay na “The Miseducation of the Filipino”, subalit hanggang ngayon, hindi pa rin tayo matuto.

Kalimitan, sa mga unibersidad, second class citizen ang mga nagtuturo ng Filipino. Mas mataas ang pagkilala sa mga nagtuturo ng Ingles. Lagi’t lagi, sila ang ipinapadala sa mga kumperensya at pinapakinggan sa mga pagpupulong at pagbibigay ng desisyon. Ito ang reklamo ng mga guro sa ilang unibersidad na aking nabisita sa Visayas. Kalimitan daw, kapag Filipino ang subject, ibinibigay na lamang kahit kanino. Ang reklamo ng isa, PE ang kanyang tinapos, bigla siyang pinagturo ng Filipino. Paano nga naman siya magtuturo ng mahusay kung hindi naman niya gamay ang subject? Naranasan ko na rin ito minsan. Sa isang kumperensya, may nakalapit akong babaeng guro. Paumanhin sa mga babae pero babae talaga siya, may makapal na salamin, pinahiran ng crayola ang mukha, nakapusod na buhok at masansang na amoy ng pabango, amoy albatross. Teacher daw siya ng Ingles. And she likes daw Shakespeare ang James Joyce and all those western writers, hahahaha. Ano ba daw ang itinuturo ko at sino ang favorite writer ko, sabi ko Flipino. Namilog ang kanyang mga mata, humikab, tinanggal ang salamin at nagwikang: Oh really, so you teach sugnay, pang-uri, pangdiwa, at Balarila ni Lope K. Santos, hahahahaha. Ano ba daw ang Filipino sa French fries, piniritong Pranses, Hahahaha. Kung may hawak akong bomba atomika, ginawa ko ng Nagasaki at Hiroshima ang bunganga niya. Pero dahil gumagalang ako sa matatanda partikular na yaong mga amoy lupa, ngumiti ako. Ang sabi ko, walang literal na translation kasi wala naman sa ating kultura ang pagpipirito ng patatas. Eh di gamitin ang French Fries, sabi ko. Bilang pagresbak, sinabi ko naman na itranslate niya sa Ingles ang bikang-bikang, minukmok at sinaludsod. Bigla siyang natahimik. Ako naman ang nagtawa. Hahahahaha. Maya-maya, tinawag na ako para sa pagbasa ng aking papel. Ang papel ko’y ukol sa problematisasyon ng espasyo bilang larang ng pulitika gamit ang dalumat sa lunan ni Henri Lefebvre isang teorisistang Franses. Nang matapos na akong magbasa, muli akong nilapitan ni Miss Tapia. Nakangiting-nakangiti siya. Ang ganda-ganda raw ng papel ko. Hindi niya naintindihan. Malalim daw kasi ang Filipino ko. Ngayon, hindi na ako mabait, gusto ko na siyang ilibing ng buhay. Ang sagot ko sa kanya. “Hindi po malalim ang aking Filipino. Mababaw lang talaga kayo.”

Ito ang kasawian ng ating bansa. Hanggang ngayon, ang tingin sa Filipino’y wika ng mga katulong, pahinante sa dyip, kargador sa pier, maglalako ng pansit at taho. Hindi maisip ng mga Ingleserang Frankenstein at Dona Victorina na maaari ng gamitin ang Filipino sa mga diskurso at larang nga teorisasyon katulad ng hermenyutika, semiotika, post-istrukturalismo, post-kolonyalismo, konseptong habitus ni Pierre Boudieu, panopticon ni Michel Foucault at gahum/hegemonya ni Antonio Gramsci. Kawawa naman ang mga taong ito. Gusto kong maiyak para sa kanila.

Subalit hindi ko sinasabi na kalimutan na natin ang Ingles. Mali kasi ang pag-iisip ng marami na sa pagpapalakas ng Pambansang Wika, pinapahina ang Ingles. Tumataginting itong kauluan at kabobohan na walang kapantay. Dagdagan ko pa, super duper mega katangahan. Ayon nga kay F. Sionil Jose, wala ng makakapigil sa pagtatampok sa Filipino bilang pambansang wika. Laganap na ito sa media. Paano ba nakilala ng mga taga Visayas at Mindanao sina Dao Ming Zhi, San Chai, Marinara at Mulawin? Sa telebisyon at ano ang gamit na wika? Filipino.

Ito ang hamon sa ating lahat, ang pagtatampok sa wikang Filipino bilang pambansang wika sa lahat ng aspeto ng buhay, mulang akademya hanggang bahay. Sa panahon ng rumaragasang globalisasyon at homogenisasyon ng mga kultura, tanging Filipino ang ating pag-asa. Kaya naman, kapag ako’y nagagalit, hindi ako sumisigaw ng Fuck You, Putang Ina ang sinasabi ko.

Hindi po ako nagmumura. Fish Tayo. Maraming salamat.

http://filipinayzd.i.ph/blogs/filipinayzd/2006/08/


its the same pitch for tagalog onli. renaming it "filipino" doesnt change it. sorry if i disagree. lets not have a national language. we dont need it. its true that tagalog was herded to become this "popular" among the other nations. but the promotion of this language also led to the demise of other non-tagalog languages. such as cebuano dabaw, chavacano from ternate, ermita, davao and now its zamboanga's turn. its good that they are now aware of language protection. protection in the so-called wikang pambansa did not cover any other language except tagalog or tagalog based whatever.

besides, where is spanish in this picture. an important language in our past as well. lets have unity in diversity in substance and not just in form. lets decide on a working language of national government. for me my preference is the first offical language of the republic. which is spanish filipino. if its not possible then chavacano.

bankaw

I would have to agree. Perhaps, there is no need for a national language. Whatever problems that ail the country has nothing to do with language. It has something to do with corruption. This is the reason why Thailand and Japan had surpassed us by leaps and bounds economically. The ability to speak and read English could have been an additional asset for our business systems and our working people, just as other international languages are, but if the system is corrupt and/or not properly directed then we will still be in an economic quagmire.

Base sa artikulo, nagmumukhang ang Pilipinas ay hanggang salita lamang. :ohno:

Sa pambansang sandali ng ating kasaysayang ito, bakit kinakailangan pa nating palakasin ang ating pambansang wika habang nag-aaral tayo ng iba pang mga wika?

Himatong ng aking argumento na dapat tayong makialam sa pagbubuo ng pambansang identidad. Ito’y hamong kailangang tugunan nating lahat. Sa pagkatunaw ng mga muhon ng pagkakaiba bunsod ng walang humpay na Hollywoodization at McDonaldization ng ating bansa, laging angkop na pagpursigihan ang paggamit ng wikang Filipino upang itampok ang ating pambansang kaakuhan. Naririyan na ang globalisasyon. Walang makakatakas dito. Testamento nito ang SM City Lucena at ang mga shop na nasa loob nito. Pinapatay nito ang lokal na industriya. Noong maliit pa ako, ang puntahan namin ay Padillo, Ramchand, Recio, Hacienda Inn at kapag kakaiin ng siopao, ang tungo’y sa Kachina. Ngayon, iisa na ang takbo ng paa: SM City Lucena.

do you want to strengthen the language of the tagalogs at the expense of other? Do you want to strengthen tagalog by killing the other languages of our nation? this is the heritage our non-tagalog forefathers gave us as a "pamana". don't you think it would be an insult to just throw it out and become tagalog?

would converting everyone into tagalog so we would look like one strong nation where everyone are tagalogs and everyone speaks tagalog be the solution for our desire to have a national identity? or we might also want to rename this country republika ng katagalugan, and make andres bonifacio the national hero. because it was his desire to fight spain in order to establish an independent "republika ng katagalugan". besides everything national is already tagalog-centric. from the symbol of the rays to the national costume (barong tagalog & baro't saya) to the national heroes. i didn't even know that a negros republic exist because it was never taught in school. i didn't know anything about leon kilat or kangleon. to me leon kilat is just a street name in cebu same as lopez jaena. because our tagalog-centric educational system did not say much about them.

Matagal ng sinasabi ng mga dalubhasa sa wika na mahalagang maituro ang mga batayang kaalaman sa matematika, agham at teknolohiya sa sariling wika, Filipino man o Cebuano. Subalit hanggang sa ngayon, iilan pa lamang ang gumagawa nito. Sa UP Integrated School halimbawa, itinuturo ang matematika, pisika, kemistri at ekonomiya sa wikang Filipino. Nang magsagawa ng pagsusulit, yaong mga nag-aaral gamit ang Filipino ay mas mataas ang nakuha kasya sa yaong ang gamit ay Ingles. Ayon din sa mga guro, biglang dumami ang tanong ng mga mag-aaral sa inertia, equilibrium at thermodynamics sapagkat mahusay nilang naipapaliwanag ang kanilang mga sarili. Sa mga klaseng ang gamit ay Ingles, boses lamang ng guro ang naririnig.

Magbanggit pa ako ng isang halimbawa. Palasak na ang usapin tungkol sa Third International Math and Science Study (TIMMS) pero gagamitin ko pa rin itong halimbawa para makita natin ang halaga ng sariling wika kaugnay ng pagtuturo ng agham at matematika.

Noong 1997, binigyan ng test sa agham at matematika ang ilang piling estudyante sa hay-iskul mula sa 71 bansa kasama ang Pilipinas. Ang resulta, sa Math, walang bansang nagsasalita ng Ingles ang napabilang sa TOP 10. Samantala sa Science, tanging ang Inglatera lamang ang pumasok at pangsampu pa. Nanguna sa eksameng ito ang mga non-English speaking na bansa katulad ng Japan, South Korea, Czech Republic, Slovakia at Bulgaria. Ang US ay pang 28 sa Math at ika-17 naman sa Science. Ang Pilipinas ay hindi umabot sa listahang inilathala. Nasa likod tayo ng South Africa, Kuwait at Colombia. Nakakaiyak Kuya Cesar.

Sa mga bansang mauunlad, kahanga-hanga ang kanilang pagmamahal sa kanilang wika. Sa Malaysia, ang mga pabatid sa trapiko ay nasa wikang Bahasa Malaysia. Sa kanilang mga bookstore, ang mga aklat ay nasa wika nila. Ang tawag sa Silicon Valley nila, Cyber Jaya at ang sentro ng kapangyarihan, Putra Jaya. Tayo, panay Ingles ang titulo, no left turn, industrial park at no swerving. Nang makabisita ako sa Alemanya at Pransya para sa kumperensya, ang mga aklat na mayroon sila ay nasa kanilang wika. Mayroon pa nga akong nakitang aklat ni F. Sionil Jose, isa mga higante ng ating panitikan, na nasa wikang Pranses. Nang dumalo ako sa magkahiwalay na panayam sa Universite de Paris-Sorbonne at College de France, nagbigay ng panayam ang pangunahing intelektwal nila na si Peirre Bourdieu sa Pranses kahit pa nga kalimitan ng nakikinig ay mga banyaga. Ang kanilang dahilan, aralin mo ang aming wika kung nais mong alamin ang nais naming sabihin. Nasa wika namin ang aming karungunan at wala sa iba. Wala man akong naitindihan kundi ang mga salitang maidemoselle, moinseur at, comment sava, naramdaman ko naman ang kanilang pagmamaghal sa wika.

i believe the non-tagalogs love their language too. that is why they are fighting for the removal of the title of "national" language bestowed on tagalog. :)

you are right, we should teach our lessons not in tagalogs or give the exams in tagalog if the students are non-tagalogs. kay di gyud ta ani magkasinabot. ang "gubat" sa mga tagalog ug ang "gubat" sa ato dri lahi gud. tingali makaingon unya ta "kadjot lang nalibog ko." ug masuko unya ang mga tagalog masagpaan pa tag kalit. inig suroysuroy pud nato mangutana unya ang tagalog "nalibang ka sa intramuros?" matubag unya nato sila na "wa oi, binuang naman pud ka. daghan ra bay tawo naminaw, mauwawan man pud ta nimo." :) if we speak english, it doesnt mean we hate our language and should be viewed as "unpatriotic" or "un-nationalistic". you cannot define our patriotism and nationalism just by the language we use at a certain situation where it is best to speak in a foreign language. whether english or tagalog. both are non-native language to the non-tagalog. it makes no difference whether they speak in english or tagalog. our patriotism and nationalism is what is within us, and that is, the love for this country and the desire to make it great.

Sa ating bansa, ramdam natin ang valorisasyon o sobrang pagpapahalaga wikang Inggles. Naghuhumiyaw ang katotohanang ito. Kapag magaling ka sa Ingles, matalino ka, at pag hindi, bobo. Muli, gusto kong mautot. Kapag balubaluktot ang Filipino katulad ng Filipino ni Vanessa del Bianco, cute, kapag balubaluktot ang Ingles, tumataginting na The Coconut-nut is a giant nut, BOBO. Kilitiin nyo ako, ayaw kong maiyak. Ipinaliwanag na ni Renato Constantino ang implikasyon ng ganitong kaisipan sa kanyang sanaysay na “The Miseducation of the Filipino”, subalit hanggang ngayon, hindi pa rin tayo matuto.

the same applies to what they did to the non-tagalogs. sabi pa nga ng isang matalinong host ng wowowee sa isang filam "You are not filipino if you don't know how to speak tagalog." ang batayan ba ng pagiging tunay na filipino ay pagiging matatas sa tagalog? kulang ba ang pagka-pilipino ng isang bisaya kung siya ay baluktot managalog? kulang ba ang pagka-filipino ng isang bisaya kung mas piliin nyang mag-english nalang kaysa managalog? besides, both are non-native to him and english seems to be more simple and easier than tagalog. if he chose to speak in english, would that be considered unpatriotic?

Kalimitan, sa mga unibersidad, second class citizen ang mga nagtuturo ng Filipino. Mas mataas ang pagkilala sa mga nagtuturo ng Ingles. Lagi’t lagi, sila ang ipinapadala sa mga kumperensya at pinapakinggan sa mga pagpupulong at pagbibigay ng desisyon. Ito ang reklamo ng mga guro sa ilang unibersidad na aking nabisita sa Visayas. Kalimitan daw, kapag Filipino ang subject, ibinibigay na lamang kahit kanino. Ang reklamo ng isa, PE ang kanyang tinapos, bigla siyang pinagturo ng Filipino. Paano nga naman siya magtuturo ng mahusay kung hindi naman niya gamay ang subject? Naranasan ko na rin ito minsan. Sa isang kumperensya, may nakalapit akong babaeng guro. Paumanhin sa mga babae pero babae talaga siya, may makapal na salamin, pinahiran ng crayola ang mukha, nakapusod na buhok at masansang na amoy ng pabango, amoy albatross. Teacher daw siya ng Ingles. And she likes daw Shakespeare ang James Joyce and all those western writers, hahahaha. Ano ba daw ang itinuturo ko at sino ang favorite writer ko, sabi ko Flipino. Namilog ang kanyang mga mata, humikab, tinanggal ang salamin at nagwikang: Oh really, so you teach sugnay, pang-uri, pangdiwa, at Balarila ni Lope K. Santos, hahahahaha. Ano ba daw ang Filipino sa French fries, piniritong Pranses, Hahahaha. Kung may hawak akong bomba atomika, ginawa ko ng Nagasaki at Hiroshima ang bunganga niya. Pero dahil gumagalang ako sa matatanda partikular na yaong mga amoy lupa, ngumiti ako. Ang sabi ko, walang literal na translation kasi wala naman sa ating kultura ang pagpipirito ng patatas. Eh di gamitin ang French Fries, sabi ko. Bilang pagresbak, sinabi ko naman na itranslate niya sa Ingles ang bikang-bikang, minukmok at sinaludsod. Bigla siyang natahimik. Ako naman ang nagtawa. Hahahahaha. Maya-maya, tinawag na ako para sa pagbasa ng aking papel. Ang papel ko’y ukol sa problematisasyon ng espasyo bilang larang ng pulitika gamit ang dalumat sa lunan ni Henri Lefebvre isang teorisistang Franses. Nang matapos na akong magbasa, muli akong nilapitan ni Miss Tapia. Nakangiting-nakangiti siya. Ang ganda-ganda raw ng papel ko. Hindi niya naintindihan. Malalim daw kasi ang Filipino ko. Ngayon, hindi na ako mabait, gusto ko na siyang ilibing ng buhay. Ang sagot ko sa kanya. “Hindi po malalim ang aking Filipino. Mababaw lang talaga kayo.”

the non-tagalogs have already been marginalized and their languages have long been treated as second class languages. in fact, how many times do you hear the tagalogs say tagalog or filipino is a language while the rest are all dialects. which means the other languages owe their existence to tagalog. as if tagalog is the mother language. the same is true with their treatment of the people who speak these languages. because the language is considered second class, the people are also considered as second class citizens. yan ang tunay na kasawian ng bansang ito. our non-tagalogs forefathers have also fought for this nation, but in the end, the tagalogs takes all the credit for themselves. don't you think it's time to revised our textbooks in school?

do you think we also teach cebuano to schools maybe in high school ? Muslims schools(Madrasa) have arabic teaching .

now, to get to my point. there is a big difference between being chinese from being bisaya or from being tagalog or from being lumad. the last three are natives of the philippines while the first one is not.And so? Do you mean to say that the Filipino-Chinese should have less rights than "native" Filipinos? That they should be considered second-class citizens? Is that what you're saying here? Please spell it out for me.

i am not stopping anyone who are immigrants of the philippines to forget their heritage. that's not what i mean at all. however, if their purpose is to remain chinese then they should have remained in china where they can remain one. and i dont mean this in a negative way when i say it. i hope this is clear to other readers.Fair enough. So, shall we say that this is also the view you hold for Filipinos living and working abroad. Either they become fully integrated Americans, Canadians, Australians, etc. or else they should just go back to the Philippines? "If their purpose is to remain Filipino, then they should have remained in the Philippines where they can remain one."

But you, yourself, contradict this, don't you? You claim to be a proud Visayan, and yet you also proclaim yourself to be American. So when you refer to "your people", which people are you referring to? Where do your loyalties lie?

the chinese before them came to become filipinos and not to build walls around them. the chinese before them filipinized their names without erasing their origins, adopted the majority religion, spoke the language of their host regions and fully assimilated the native ways into their own immigrant background and vice versa.Before whom? Isn't this still happening today? Really, I'm having a hard time grasping where you're going with this, and trying not to find something negative about it.

in other words, bukid, they willingly allowed themselves to be changed by the country they called home and not the other way around. sure, they can speak chinese among themselves and celebrate the memory of their old country. i am not against their ethnicity. but it sure is difficult for me to accept that the native filipinos have to learn chinese in order for them to conduct business in the islands, accept their monopoly of the domestic economy over the natives (whom by the way were also pioneers and traders by tradition just like the chinese) and not create equal opportunity by not spreading that precious capital to the natives as well. in others words, the imperialism i pointed out is the structuring of the domestic economy in favor of their own fellow chinese.Bukid has already addressed this issue, so I'm not going to belabor the point.

it pains me that a majority of our countrymen are mired in poverty, and whose only remedy in life other than leaving the country, is to remain perpetually hired hands in their companies. economic nationalism is also important and that goes for chinese immigrants as well as the native ones in the country.What is it that you would like to happen then? Would you like: a.) that the Filipino-Chinese only engage other Filipino-Chinese as hired hands?, b.) that "native" Filipinos should claim what's rightfully theirs because they were in the Philippines first, even though most Fil-Chi worked really hard to achieve what they have now?, or c.) that "native" Filipinos should engage the Filipino-Chinese as hired hands instead?

Why don't you, a "native" Filipino, establish a company and hire only "native" Filipinos then? Would that be better than Filipino-Chinese hiring "native" Filipinos? Ahhh... but then again, you might be tempted to only hire Visayans, or at least Visayan-speaking Filipinos.

I understand your feelings about poverty. I, too, would like to see the country as a whole progress, and that poverty becomes a reality of the past. But to make it seem like the Filipino-Chinese is somehow the root cause of this problem is totally unrealistic and unfair. Would things be any different if Spanish-Filipinos, Tagalogs, Visayans or other "native" Filipinos were supposedly dominating Philippine economy? Would poverty disappear then?

but like you i also get pissed off with foreigners or mestizo Filipinos who take advantage of our people or who sneer our people in our own country.

if i can only have it my way, i would certainly bar the entry of racist foreingers in our country or those who claim to be Filipinos but who in fact do not have a drop of Filipino blood in their veins (you know them) and who have enriched themselves at the poverty of our people. these aliens do not deserve to be here so they should be deported to their country of origin.

i also hate Filipinos who look down on their brothers, too, particularly a few Northeners who claim superiority (not all) just because they come from the capital. for instance, i know of a Manileña who came down to Cebu to work and who snicker on Cebuanos and Bisayans as being laidback, which to me sounded like we were dumbrains.I understand where you're coming from, but I think we need to be careful not to create stereotypes. Do not reserve your anger and indignation for foreigners or "northerners", but for anyone (including other "southerners") who would take advantage or look down at our people.

I would have to agree. Perhaps, there is no need for a national language. Whatever problems that ail the country has nothing to do with language. It has something to do with corruption. This is the reason why Thailand and Japan had surpassed us by leaps and bounds economically. The ability to speak and read English could have been an additional asset for our business systems and our working people, just as other international languages are, but if the system is corrupt and/or not properly directed then we will still be in an economic quagmire.Yes, maybe there is no need for a national language. I don't have a strong attachment to "Filipino", but since it has been declared as our national language, then I think we should, at the very least, try to support the idea. After all, it is still evolving. And we are all part of what shape it will take in the future. Now, if on the other hand, we find that it's not working, as some of our compatriots here claim is the case, then we could always try the route that some European countries have taken. Switzerland has 4 official national languages. Belgium has 3. Spain, on the other hand, has 1 official language (Castilian), while other "native" languages have official regional status.

Whichever way we decide to go, I agree that we need to preserve and cultivate our regional languages. They are, after all, part of what makes Filipinos, well, Filipinos.

I understand where you're coming from, but I think we need to be careful not to create stereotypes. Do not reserve your anger and indignation for foreigners or "northerners", but for anyone (including other "southerners") who would take advantage or look down at our people.

thank you. i am speaking my own experience here. i havent tried being sneered by southerners. i also did not generalize. those who aren't guilty of what im talking about shouldn't feel being alluded to.

do you want to strengthen the language of the tagalogs at the expense of other? Do you want to strengthen tagalog by killing the other languages of our nation? this is the heritage our non-tagalog forefathers gave us as a "pamana". don't you think it would be an insult to just throw it out and become tagalog?

would converting everyone into tagalog so we would look like one strong nation where everyone are tagalogs and everyone speaks tagalog be the solution for our desire to have a national identity? or we might also want to rename this country republika ng katagalugan, and make andres bonifacio the national hero. because it was his desire to fight spain in order to establish an independent "republika ng katagalugan". besides everything national is already tagalog-centric. from the symbol of the rays to the national costume (barong tagalog & baro't saya) to the national heroes. i didn't even know that a negros republic exist because it was never taught in school. i didn't know anything about leon kilat or kangleon. to me leon kilat is just a street name in cebu same as lopez jaena. because our tagalog-centric educational system did not say much about them.



i believe the non-tagalogs love their language too. that is why they are fighting for the removal of the title of "national" language bestowed on tagalog. :)

you are right, we should teach our lessons not in tagalogs or give the exams in tagalog if the students are non-tagalogs. kay di gyud ta ani magkasinabot. ang "gubat" sa mga tagalog ug ang "gubat" sa ato dri lahi gud. tingali makaingon unya ta "kadjot lang nalibog ko." ug masuko unya ang mga tagalog masagpaan pa tag kalit. inig suroysuroy pud nato mangutana unya ang tagalog "nalibang ka sa intramuros?" matubag unya nato sila na "wa oi, binuang naman pud ka. daghan ra bay tawo naminaw, mauwawan man pud ta nimo." :) if we speak english, it doesnt mean we hate our language and should be viewed as "unpatriotic" or "un-nationalistic". you cannot define our patriotism and nationalism just by the language we use at a certain situation where it is best to speak in a foreign language. whether english or tagalog. both are non-native language to the non-tagalog. it makes no difference whether they speak in english or tagalog. our patriotism and nationalism is what is within us, and that is, the love for this country and the desire to make it great.



the same applies to what they did to the non-tagalogs. sabi pa nga ng isang matalinong host ng wowowee sa isang filam "You are not filipino if you don't know how to speak tagalog." ang batayan ba ng pagiging tunay na filipino ay pagiging matatas sa tagalog? kulang ba ang pagka-pilipino ng isang bisaya kung siya ay baluktot managalog? kulang ba ang pagka-filipino ng isang bisaya kung mas piliin nyang mag-english nalang kaysa managalog? besides, both are non-native to him and english seems to be more simple and easier than tagalog. if he chose to speak in english, would that be considered unpatriotic?



the non-tagalogs have already been marginalized and their languages have long been treated as second class languages. in fact, how many times do you hear the tagalogs say tagalog or filipino is a language while the rest are all dialects. which means the other languages owe their existence to tagalog. as if tagalog is the mother language. the same is true with their treatment of the people who speak these languages. because the language is considered second class, the people are also considered as second class citizens. yan ang tunay na kasawian ng bansang ito. our non-tagalogs forefathers have also fought for this nation, but in the end, the tagalogs takes all the credit for themselves. don't you think it's time to revised our textbooks in school?

i would like to add that the popular cuss word among filipinos is not tagalog. its chavacano. you know, " P____- INA" . a combination of spanish and tagalog mix. had quezon left the status quo alone the focus would be the economy. had spanish filipino the first official language of government not been tampered with and stamped out by the americans and the tagalistas in favor of english then tagalog there would be coherence in communication in government and the islands. for a long time the language of trade between islands was not tagalog, chinese, english. it's chavacano for the most part. is it too late for change? maybe. maybe not. all i can say is the philippines have become a backward nation where our people remained blind and deaf to the present and most of all to our past. that's why the need to re-invent ourselves every year with every new fad that comes along. a people subject to the whims of foreigners masquerading as filipinos in its domestic economy and now government. it pains me to say it because i still i have a stake in the philippines. the language confusion is a creation of that blindness and deafness. the curse of external and internal colonialism our people have yet to destroy in their psyche and their minds. the vanishing filipino is fighting for its survival.

bankaw

do you think we also teach cebuano to schools maybe in high school ? Muslims schools(Madrasa) have arabic teaching .

yes, yes, yes. coupled with arabic teaching among our islamized austronesian countrymen the christianized lowlanders should learn spanish if not chavacano and revive the lost language of the their culture as filipinos. but both arabic and spanish must be taught using our own native languages instead of english.

bankaw

thank you. i am speaking my own experience here. i havent tried being sneered by southerners. i also did not generalize. those who aren't guilty of what im talking about shouldn't feel being alluded to.
You're welcome.

All I can say is: "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Probably iyung concept of revival of Spanish ay dapat i-define more specifically. Personally, ang total replacement ng Tag. and Eng. w/ Sp. ay hindi practical or feasible, pero I think at the very least dapat ibalik ang compulsory Sp. education sa HS at college. Specifically, we ought to develop the ability to read and appreciate the literature of the Propaganda Movement and Revolutionary period in the orig. language. Utang natin sa ating mga bayani na hayain silang makipag-usap sa atin sa wika na kanilang piniling gamitin.

***ungrammatical Sp. version of above follows, pls correct***

Probablimente, el concepto de revivificacion de Esp. en las Filipinas necessites un definicion mas preciso. Personalmente, creo que a cambiar nuestros lenguajes officiales (Tag. at Eng.), y re-emplacer el Esp. no es practical. Pero necessitamos tener la abilidad a leer y intender la literatura classica de nuestros heroes patrioticos de Movimiento Propagandistica y de la Revolucion Filipina en mismo lenguaje de ellos eligireran a usar. Somos obligado a render nuestros heroes la opportunidad a hablar con nosotros en la lenguaje de sus almas.

You're welcome.

All I can say is: "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Amen to you bai.

To bukid I forgot to add that this one: Gusto kong isyeyr ang nakaka-inspayr at nakaka-aliw na artikel na ito mula sa Mauban.net. Ito ay ang lektsur ni Nelson Turgo sa mga estudyante ng Manuel S. Enverga University Foundation, Inc. para sa selibreysyon ng Buwan ng Wika nuon.


The only way I could see a solution and productive is to follow the Spanish system. We already have the 1 Filipino language for the land. It has already been planted but we can also have the languages of the regions useful to its citizens. Have it official in the region and use it for teaching not only literature, sciences, and maths but also their own history and culture.

The role of Spanish in the land is also beneficial to the country if ever the people will open and see beyond the English world. You cannot deny that this is the only European language where we can master and have an upperhand with other BPO countries in Asia. This will not only benefit the stomach but it also enrichess ones understanding of our languages (ex. etymologies - check the Outsourcing thread in the News section) as well as culturally and historically.

Peace to all and have a good weekend.

yes, yes, yes. coupled with arabic teaching among our islamized austronesian countrymen the christianized lowlanders should learn spanish if not chavacano and revive the lost language of the their culture as filipinos. but both arabic and spanish must be taught using our own native languages instead of english.

bankaw

sorry for being ignorant but meron ba talagang 'structured' cebuano language,some time i tried to learn pure cebuano but i guess hindi lang talaga available sa libraries , if we really want to promote cebuano language we have to ask DoE to supply Cebuano literature to our public libraries imo .

@animo

True, Spanish is the national language and the only language you can use if you want to be understood almost everywhere in Spain. But Spain also has three other officially recognized languages, and language use continues to be a hot political issue in parts of the country.

so, i think, the best solution would still be the removal of tagalog as a "national" language. and revise the school textbooks so it can now accomodate non-tagalog literatures and history as part of our effort to promote understanding between the different groups. the complain of the non-tagalog is often about the tagalog-centric narrow-minded view of philippine history and the exclusion of non-tagalog literatures from school subjects where appreciation for non-tagalog literatures could have showed our tagalog citizens that non-tagalog has a culture that is at par with those of the tagalogs. the non-tagalogs had already be treated like "indios" who are made to look like they are "culture-less" without the tagalogs. we can promote appreciation of our fellow citizens only through the integration of non-tagalog culture, literature and history in our schools nationwide.

sorry for being ignorant but meron ba talagang 'structured' cebuano language,some time i tried to learn pure cebuano but i guess hindi lang talaga available sa libraries , if we really want to promote cebuano language we have to ask DoE to supply Cebuano literature to our public libraries imo .

please let me answer your question. yes, there are already cebuano grammars just as there are cebuano dictionaries although i dont think the government has done studies on the language. i learned that the cebu normal university is already conducting cebuano language courses and the university of the philippines-cebu college. as for resources on the cebuano language and everything about the cebuanos and cebu are found at the cebuano studies center of the university of san carlos.

*sigh* I can't believe this discussion is still alive after so many months...

Whatever language we speak doesn't really matter, as long as we understand each other. We shouldn't have to revive spanish, or even chavacano out of pure nostalgia. Languages are meant to be functional, and Tagalog serves that purpose in the entire country (of course, how it was spread is a point of discontent, but we'll get to that later). So far, if the other languages want to be preserved, fine. There are many countries that are extremely multilingual. I don't see Cebuano or Kapampangan or Ilocano dying away so easily, there's a lot of media that is conducted in the regional languages, for one, like radio stations and print media. If I'm not wrong, primary and secondary school is conducted in the local language, right, with Manila as being a weird exception? If not, that's how it should be. Students learn better when the language spoken at home is the medium of instruction.

Other than that, you'll notice that it has been much easier for the rest of the islands to grasp Tagalog than it was to grasp English. While it's safe to say that a public high school student in Mindanao can speak Filipino fluently, I cannot say the same thing about a public high school student regarding their skills in speaking english. Spanish and Chavacano could've been the norm, and could've been grasped as easily, given the long Spanish presence here, but the past 50 years have erased that. Teaching Spanish or Chavacano would be as difficult, if not more, as teaching English, which isn't going so well despite the "Third Largest English-speaking country" tag (I honestly feel that it's a load of bull) We only put up with english because it supposedly helps us economically (again, subject to much debate)

Now, the only thing lacking in our system is the constant encouragement of Tagalog and English only. If we look at switzerland, where no language is officially dominant, everybody speaks their own language, but they do make some effort to speak the language of their neighbors. There's no encouragement at all in Manila for people to learn Cebuano or Ilonggo. That's the only thing I believe should be changed. But Spanish or Chavacano? Not worth it on a national level.

*sigh* I can't believe this discussion is still alive after so many months...

Whatever language we speak doesn't really matter, as long as we understand each other. We shouldn't have to revive spanish, or even chavacano out of pure nostalgia. Languages are meant to be functional, and Tagalog serves that purpose in the entire country (of course, how it was spread is a point of discontent, but we'll get to that later). So far, if the other languages want to be preserved, fine. There are many countries that are extremely multilingual. I don't see Cebuano or Kapampangan or Ilocano dying away so easily, there's a lot of media that is conducted in the regional languages, for one, like radio stations and print media. If I'm not wrong, primary and secondary school is conducted in the local language, right, with Manila as being a weird exception? If not, that's how it should be. Students learn better when the language spoken at home is the medium of instruction.

Other than that, you'll notice that it has been much easier for the rest of the islands to grasp Tagalog than it was to grasp English. While it's safe to say that a public high school student in Mindanao can speak Filipino fluently, I cannot say the same thing about a public high school student regarding their skills in speaking english. Spanish and Chavacano could've been the norm, and could've been grasped as easily, given the long Spanish presence here, but the past 50 years have erased that. Teaching Spanish or Chavacano would be as difficult, if not more, as teaching English, which isn't going so well despite the "Third Largest English-speaking country" tag (I honestly feel that it's a load of bull) We only put up with english because it supposedly helps us economically (again, subject to much debate)

Now, the only thing lacking in our system is the constant encouragement of Tagalog and English only. If we look at switzerland, where no language is officially dominant, everybody speaks their own language, but they do make some effort to speak the language of their neighbors. There's no encouragement at all in Manila for people to learn Cebuano or Ilonggo. That's the only thing I believe should be changed. But Spanish or Chavacano? Not worth it on a national level.

Again, the functional aspect of the language. How can anyone deny the fact that Tagalog is widely understood and spoken across the country transcending regional boundaries, languages and cultures.

I also agree that system of education should include studying other Philippine languages of their choice particularly to those children whose parents came from different ethnolinguistic backgrounds.

^^ Careful now, you might be branded as tagalista. :lol:

^^ I don't care if he brands me one because I am a Tagalista. You're also a Tagalista too. Taga lista ng mga inconsistencies dito. :lol:

^^ Tangalok .... :lol: yan ang tuksuhan namin when we were kids in School. Some are really utal mag-tagalog.

Any functional language that can get the message out to others is good enough. But for others here promoting the revival and hoping that Spanish would make a big difference for Filipinos is on their own world.
Sure it is an advantage but so far those news and articles about companies needing Spanish speaking Filipinos in call centers is still in a working process. All I see on those articles posted are just false hope...which has a lot of these words - "COULD, WOULD and MIGHT” -- feed our kababayans.
Kung meron man mga na hire, then good for them.
Just get real folks, if any sort of languages beside Filipino and English are needed to be progressive, then we should have known about it long time ago.
(Sounds like a replay of what I've said already)

:)


~These one will really open a can of worm ~

Kalokohan na lang yang kailangan marunong kang magkastila para malaman mo ang nakalipas ng ating pamana at kasaysayan ng ating bansa kung nagugutom naman ang inyong kamag-anakan.

Kaya nga may translation na sa Tagalog o English ang ating mga History books para hindi na mahirapan ang mga tao.

** Even Gen. Emilio Aguinaldo spoke in Tagalog during his welcome speech in the Malolos congress. **

i concur with that statement. i am a cebuano but yeah i do think that the monument shouldnt be placed at the Luneta. if people were to honor the hero of mactan, it can be appropriately done elsewhere in manila or perhaps build a bigger monument in cebu instead.

i really doubt you are a cebuano. most of the cebuanos that i know don't share your opinion on the use of tagalog. now, you say that lapulapu's monument should have been built somewhere else. doesn't he deserve to be there? he is a national hero and not just the "hero of mactan". rizal, too, has a monument in china and germany.

i really doubt you are a cebuano. most of the cebuanos that i know don't share your opinion on the use of tagalog. now, you say that lapulapu's monument should have been built somewhere else. doesn't he deserve to be there? he is a national hero and not just the "hero of mactan". rizal, too, has a monument in china and germany.

@dodong, daghang salamat. i need not argue with you. i need not spell out my stance on the language issue again because i have already said my part. di ko ganahan nga ako pang balikon.

as for lapulapu's monument, well, i just dont think the luneta is appropriate for it because, as i understand, it should be reserved for those who sacrificed their lives in that hallowed ground. it is my own opinion. if you insist, then ikaw na lay mag-ako.. hehe :) kalinaw anaa kanimo

@dodong, daghang salamat. i need not argue with you. i need not spell out my stance on the language issue again because i have already said my part. di ko ganahan nga ako pang balikon.

as for lapulapu's monument, well, i just dont think the luneta is appropriate for it because, as i understand, it should be reserved for those who sacrificed their lives in that hallowed ground. it is my own opinion. if you insist, then ikaw na lay mag-ako.. hehe :) kalinaw anaa kanimo

bantayanon,


dont worry you were on solid ground. you were right that "lapulapu" (not his real name) should not be in luzon or luneta. he belonged to the bisayan people first. calipulaco was fighting for mactan. he was defending his mactanese nation and not filipinos or philippines simply because they did not exist before the spanish.

mabuhi ang nasud bisaya.
bangkaw

sorry for being ignorant but meron ba talagang 'structured' cebuano language,some time i tried to learn pure cebuano but i guess hindi lang talaga available sa libraries , if we really want to promote cebuano language we have to ask DoE to supply Cebuano literature to our public libraries imo .

dinabaw,

na-a intawon. suwayi ug pa-ngita sa internet. right, lets just promote our bisayan languages. there is going to be a problem though because the law is clear. tagalog renamed filipino is the only language that has approval for education.

mabuhi ang nasud bisaya
bangkaw

^^ katong nag eskwela pa ko , wa pa may computer ,ana man gud nahitabo dri sa Dabaw ug sa lain probinsya na maka mao ug binisaya i mean i really got my bisayan education thru my bisayan friends bisayan komiks or tabloid which is not a good material in learning the language , so that is why cebuano language have different versions , i like cebuano language to be promoted in school or libraries , don't get me wrong friend but imo that is why cebuano language hindi umangat kasi kulang ng formal literature or language translations . i think that is why some Filipinos or Tagalogs who wants to learn cebuano never got educated bec lack of bisayan books

Again, the functional aspect of the language. How can anyone deny the fact that Tagalog is widely understood and spoken across the country transcending regional boundaries, languages and cultures.

I also agree that system of education should include studying other Philippine languages of their choice particularly to those children whose parents came from different ethnolinguistic backgrounds.

i believe the problem is not the lack of non-tagalog language lessons in school. the non-tagalogs are complaining about the way the tagalog or the pro-tagalog define "nationalism". it is a definition that excludes the non-tagalogs unless they convert and become "tagalog". and the proclamation of tagalog as a "national" language is being used as a justification for such definition. Exclusion of non-tagalog literatures also resulted in the stereotype that the tagalogs are the only one that is civilized and has a great culture as can be seen in its literatures and poetry (panitikan at mga tula).

if we are to promote understanding and unity we should not exclude non-tagalogs in our filipino subjects. i believe an appreciation for the culture, literature and arts of our fellow filipinos (tagalog and non-tagalogs) can help nurture a spirit of brotherhood, respect and unity among the various groups.

*sigh* I can't believe this discussion is still alive after so many months...

Whatever language we speak doesn't really matter, as long as we understand each other. We shouldn't have to revive spanish, or even chavacano out of pure nostalgia. Languages are meant to be functional, and Tagalog serves that purpose in the entire country (of course, how it was spread is a point of discontent, but we'll get to that later). So far, if the other languages want to be preserved, fine. There are many countries that are extremely multilingual. I don't see Cebuano or Kapampangan or Ilocano dying away so easily, there's a lot of media that is conducted in the regional languages, for one, like radio stations and print media. If I'm not wrong, primary and secondary school is conducted in the local language, right, with Manila as being a weird exception? If not, that's how it should be. Students learn better when the language spoken at home is the medium of instruction.

Other than that, you'll notice that it has been much easier for the rest of the islands to grasp Tagalog than it was to grasp English. While it's safe to say that a public high school student in Mindanao can speak Filipino fluently, I cannot say the same thing about a public high school student regarding their skills in speaking english. Spanish and Chavacano could've been the norm, and could've been grasped as easily, given the long Spanish presence here, but the past 50 years have erased that. Teaching Spanish or Chavacano would be as difficult, if not more, as teaching English, which isn't going so well despite the "Third Largest English-speaking country" tag (I honestly feel that it's a load of bull) We only put up with english because it supposedly helps us economically (again, subject to much debate)

Now, the only thing lacking in our system is the constant encouragement of Tagalog and English only. If we look at switzerland, where no language is officially dominant, everybody speaks their own language, but they do make some effort to speak the language of their neighbors. There's no encouragement at all in Manila for people to learn Cebuano or Ilonggo. That's the only thing I believe should be changed. But Spanish or Chavacano? Not worth it on a national level.

it was good enough as the first official language of the republic, and as an official language along with english of the commonwealth government of the philippines under american colonialism and even up to early years of marcos. dont you think these facts contradicted your statement that its "not worth on a national level."

i agree that language is functional but it serves a purpose. this depends on what the agenda is of the powers that be. but to say that chavacano and spanish is not worth on a national level doesnt measure up historically.

datu bagnot.

this is an excerpt from a dabawenyo

Taga Dabaw gyud

"Unfortunately, I don't know who the author is. I've long been wanting to write an essay about not having a real language to call my own because I'm from davao (in manila i'm considered bisaya; in cebu i'm considered tagalog. that's why I write in English =P), but here's a piece that celebrates having ALL languages.

another typical davao conversation line na "bisaya" kuno (only cebuanos will realize what's wrong): moadto ka diri? mopalit man ko ug gulay sa palengke kay payat na kaayo ko.

and the funny thing is, people from other places who work or study in davao "bastardize" their own language and start talking the same way, too. Hahaha. It's infectious! (and don't forget the funny accent that comes with it that's neither tagalong nor bisaya =)



my thanks to cris for forwarding this. ka-sarap bitaw gyud magtira sa dabaw. lingaw gani masyado. worth it man talaga! mwehehehe "





GALENGA TALAGA NIYA GYUD, UY!

>

>

> How can one distinguish a Davaoeno to a Cebuano? Or to a Cagayanon? Difficult? Easy. Davaoenos are one of the most unique people in the world. We can easily stand out if we are placed in a crowd of Filipinos from other parts of the country. And how, you say? Language.

>

> Davao City, aptly called the melting pot of cultures, is home to many

> dialects. Tagalog, Cebuano, Ilonggo, Ilocano, Chavacano, Moslem, Bicolano. Name it, we'll speak it. If the Filipino language is a composition of all the dialects and languages in the Philippines, you might as well say that the language we speak in Davao City is the real Filipino language, and not Tagalog.

>

> However, since it is a hodgepodge of different tongues, it is sometimes funny to hear our language "bastardizing", for lack of better word, the other dialects. Strangely, that distinguishes us from the rest. Try these.

>

> In stating a fact, Manilenos say, "Talagang mabait si Weng." In Davao, we say. "Mabait bitaw gyud si Weng". Too assertive? One asks, "Ano nga `yong pangalan mo?". In Davao we say, "Ano gani `yong pangalan (or worst, ngalan) mo?". When somebody commits a mistake or surprises someone, we always never fail to say, "Halaka!". Duh.

>

> We are fond of re-constructing the language. There's the GI+ verb, such as,"Gisabi kasi ni Helen na mag-absent si Bernerd bukas", or "Ginanon ni Lalai si Belinda sa mukha". You'll never find "ginanon" in any dictionary, I swear to God. There's the KA+ adjective, as in, "Kaputi gyud ng mukha ni Yang-yang" or "Kapayat gyud ni Jason ngayon." The MAKA+ verb form, such as, "Maka-inis talaga si Albert, uy!" or "Maka-uwi talaga ako ng matagal ngayon".



> The NAG+ verb, as in,"Nagsabi kasi si Tita Prescy na pupunta daw tayo ng airport" or "Hindi pa man siya nagdating, uy!"

>

> Adding new words or new meanings to old words to the dictionary is one of our favorite past time. NAKIN: "Alam man nakin `yan ba!", "Saan nakin kita nakita gani?". KU-AN: "Ku-an daw ang gawin mo", "Si ku-an kasi ano masyado". (No sense at all.)

> ANO: "Na-ano ka diyan, Bryan!", "Ano man yan si Van, uy!".

> HA: "Lake-ha na ng tiyan ni Lulu uy!", "Gwapa-ha niya uy!"

> BEH: "Sige daw beh, dare!", "Pakipasa daw ng ballpen ni Tzaris beh".

> KAY: "Huwag na, Wowie, kay nandito naman si Norma", "Umupo ka muna kay nasa-CR pa si Elma."

>

> To express disgust over someone, we utter, "Gago kaba diay para maniwala sa kanya", or "Ano man yan siya uy!", or "Maka-inis man yan siya, uy!", or when pestered when doing something, you'd quip,"Huwag lagi ba!" On the other hand, when we praise somebody's extra special deed or talent, our Davaoeno tongue slips words like,"Kuyaw lagi `yan siya!", "Galenga niya uy!", "Ayusa niya uy!", "Kuyawa ni Orly uy!" or "Hindi ako makatu-o sa ginawa niya!" . Hay, makatawa talaga. Ooops!

>

> There are just so too many words to mention. Just check out the words you spew everyday. Sometimes you just laugh at yourself when you realize that you've just said those very words. No matter how long you stay in Manila or in the States, the moment you're back to Davao, your tongue feels as at home as you do. Language is the very soul of every being. You just can't do anything about it. Or as how we say it,"Anohin man natin yan?"

@bukid and josepepe, nindot kaayo ang panagkukabildo kung punto por punto lang ang panaghisgutan ug dili ininsultohay. (it's good to talk about issues point by point and not resorting to hurling insults).

i certainly sympathize with you guys for your passion to keep your identity.

i congratulate our foreign ancestors (be they CHinese, American, Spanish, etc) who decided to live here and called the Philippines their home and the native Filipinos their brothers. but like you i also get pissed off with foreigners or mestizo Filipinos who take advantage of our people or who sneer our people in our own country.

if i can only have it my way, i would certainly bar the entry of racist foreingers in our country or those who claim to be Filipinos but who in fact do not have a drop of Filipino blood in their veins (you know them) and who have enriched themselves at the poverty of our people. these aliens do not deserve to be here so they should be deported to their country of origin.

i also hate Filipinos who look down on their brothers, too, particularly a few Northeners who claim superiority (not all) just because they come from the capital. for instance, i know of a Manileña who came down to Cebu to work and who snicker on Cebuanos and Bisayans as being laidback, which to me sounded like we were dumbrains.

mga hilas kaayo (sarap nga sapakin, to speak in their tongue.. hehe) but we have to keep our cool to show them that they're wrong.

Manilaneos are people from Manila, right? I thought is almost like a melting pot in the Philippines because from my understanding, majority of the people in Manila were all from different parts of the Philippines and the real native Manilenos are very few. I understand that there are alot of visayans, ilocanos, illongos pampangos and so on in that city of 10 million filipinos.

If these Manilenos wandered around cebu and acted very arrogant or disrespectful? Then, I guess that is the nature of many or some filipinos to have a descending attitude towards another. What can be done to eliminate these negative attitudes of these people? Revise the Law? Proper education on good conduct and interpersonal relationships? Maybe this is the key for the nation's unity and progress.

^^ I also felt that way i have been discriminated because i came from Mindanao even my mother is from Cavite and my father is from Rizal , i hope we can do something about this problem .

Yes, maybe there is no need for a national language. I don't have a strong attachment to "Filipino", but since it has been declared as our national language, then I think we should, at the very least, try to support the idea. After all, it is still evolving. And we are all part of what shape it will take in the future. Now, if on the other hand, we find that it's not working, as some of our compatriots here claim is the case, then we could always try the route that some European countries have taken. Switzerland has 4 official national languages. Belgium has 3. Spain, on the other hand, has 1 official language (Castilian), while other "native" languages have official regional status.

Whichever way we decide to go, I agree that we need to preserve and cultivate our regional languages. They are, after all, part of what makes Filipinos, well, Filipinos.

Well then, there you go, maybe the term "filipino" as the official language should have open and close clause quotation Filipino = *(Visayan, Tagalog, Ilocano , Maranao)?? but then again, once they do this.. How many languages and dialects the Island of the Philipines have?86? 256? (hell, i dont know know?? how many is it really?LOL)Then, other regional groups would cry "foul" I'm neither visayan, tagalog , ilocano.. What about us? Are we not as equally as important??

IMHO for me lets make it into 3 official languages



Tagalog represents Luzon

Cebuano represents Visayas

Mindanao which ever languange mindanao chooses may it be Maranaw , Tausugs, Chavacano or whichever language mindanao chooses , i have no problem w/ muslim languages as long we create harmony to our country .

New thread! (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=12006402#post12006402) :colgate:

:lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock: :lock:

i speak swahili
omladi omlada

sus ginoo tigs, greek yan!

I can speak very little arabic...

salam my friend :nuts:

i dont know how to speak english, really, i aint kidding...

hindi rin ako marunong magtagalog, nahihirapan talaga ako sa tagalog...

Languages acquainted

1 - Cebuano
2 - English
3 - Tagalog
4 - Chabacano (not that much)
5 - Japanese
6 - French
7 - Bahasa Indonesia

Bicol

Marunong akong Tagalog.

Biyasa kung Kapampangan.

한국에 정통하다.

Hablo español.

:D

^^
Australian English is my main language. I speak fluent Hiligaynon (Ilonggo) and Spanish at home with my family. I can speak Tagalog if forced (not very good at it though). I can also do basic Cebuano... from summers spent with cousins in Dumaguete and Cebu!

i am also very fluent in english but not the american, british and australian english..