Nyguy.. I'm sorry if it's hidden somewhere deep in the article but I figured you would know best as to what those dots were?

Just part of the rendering.

http://www.nylovesbiz.com/moynihanstation/

STATE BEGINS PUBLIC REVIEW FOR NEW MOYNIHAN STATION
Release of Scoping Document Launches Initial Stage of Public Review

10/23/2007

The Empire State Development Corporation announced today that the State has initiated the public review process for the Moynihan Station project, a sweeping public transit plan to dramatically enhance transportation links in and around Penn Station. The plans are set out in a scoping document that was released to the public today.

The redevelopment includes building a new Moynihan Station within the James A. Farley Post Office, rebuilding the existing Penn Station to improve commuter flow, and constructing a new Madison Square Garden within Farley’s western Annex. This will ease crowds and substantially increase access at Penn Station. Amtrak, New Jersey Transit, Long Island Rail Road, and New York City subway passengers will be able to make connections throughout the larger complex. These public transportation improvements will be subsidized by private development that will serve as a catalyst for commercial growth on Manhattan’s West Side.

Today, Penn Station is America’s busiest passenger transportation facility, handling more passengers than Kennedy, LaGuardia and Newark Liberty airports combined.

ESDC will hold a public scoping session on Thursday, December 6th, and members of the public are invited to comment on the scope until Monday, December 17th. The public will also have additional opportunities to comment as the project moves forward.

Once the current MSG is demolished, Penn Station will be rebuilt into the treasure it once was, with an enhanced experience at track level leading to wider corridors, higher ceilings, and – for the first time in 40 years – natural day light. The scoping document describes the four major principles that will guide the design of the rebuilt Penn Station: (1) passengers will be able to access all levels from all corners of the station; (2) there will be a clearly identifiable central hall and meeting place; (3) passengers will move around more easily in day-lit, wider, high-ceilinged corridors; (4) it will be easier for passengers to reach streets, subways, railroad concourses, platforms and adjacent commercial development. All of the project partners are participating in a Design Task Force that will yield conceptual station plans. Cost estimates will follow a final design.

Following the City’s Public Review Process (ULURP), development of up to approximately 5.4 million square feet could be permitted, including a 2.7 million sq ft bonus, provided that MSG is relocated and significant transportation improvements are made.

The scope includes two options for the disposition of this square footage; the creation, by special permit, of a 1.1-million-square-foot, predominantly retail development on the site, and the dispersion of the remaining 4.3 million square feet of development rights into a new zoning sub-district surrounding the Penn Station complex; or the entire bonus and as-of-right development remaining on the Penn Station site in the form of two new towers over a retail and commercial podium.

The first option would minimize construction within and over the operating railroad station.

The project would be completed in two phases. Phase I (2008 to 2011) includes the development of the new train station at Farley, the construction of the new MSG, the redevelopment of the block between 33rd and 34th Streets and Seventh and Eight Avenues, and potential utilization within the sub-district of some development rights transferred from the Penn Station block. One and Two Penn Plaza will remain in place.

Phase II (2012 to 2018) includes the construction of a new Penn Station, and the development of the remaining development square footage. The public train station portion of the project is expected to be funded by the private developers and by contributions by the State, City and Federal governments. Preliminary estimates indicate the project is expected to generate billions of dollars in new tax revenues, thousands of permanent jobs and construction jobs.

It's gonna take a while to sort through the document, but it looks like regardless of whatever version of the MSG/Penn Station project gets built, the 2 msf tower at the SW corner of 34th and 7th will move forward:
http://www.nylovesbiz.com/pdf/MoynihanStation/DraftScopeofWork.pdf

Construction of approximately 7.5 million zoning square feet of new commercial or mixed-use space. Two options are under consideration for approximately 5.4 million zoning square feet of this development. Under the Penn Station Block Mixed-Use Development Option, up to 125,000 zoning square feet of office and retail space would be built on the west end of the One Penn Plaza block (the block bounded by Eighth and Seventh Avenues and West 33rd and 34th Streets, which contains the One Penn Plaza building) and up to 5.4 million zoning square feet of mixed-use development would be constructed above and around the reconstructed Penn Station (on the Penn Station Block).

Under the Moynihan Station Subdistrict Option, up to approximately 1.1 million zoning square feet of commercial space (predominately retail) would be developed above Moynihan Station East and up to approximately 4.3 million zoning square feet of mixed-use development would be built on multiple receiving sites within a new zoning Subdistrict.

Under both options it is currently anticipated that up to approximately 2 million zoning square feet of commercial space would be developed on the east end of the One Penn Plaza block.

On page 20 (18), we get to the meat of the proposals...
http://www.nylovesbiz.com/pdf/MoynihanStation/DraftScopeofWork.pdf

Mixed-Use, High-Rise Redevelopment

Following completion of the new MSG arena by 2011 in the Farley Complex, the existing MSG would be demolished. As described above, there are presently two development options for the utilization of the approximately 5.4 million square feet of bonus and unused floor area available on the Penn Station Block. These two options are described below.

ESDC, MSDC, and New York City will assess the two options, in consultation with the railroads operating at Penn Station, against the goals and objectives of the project, and between issuance of this Draft Scope and completion of the draft SEQRA SEIS and NEPA EIS, one of the two development options will be identified as the proposed project. The draft SEQRA SEIS and NEPA EIS will analyze the selected option as a component of the proposed Expanded Moynihan Project, and will discuss why the other option is not being pursued.

Penn Station Block Mixed-Use Development Option

Under this option, a high-rise mixed-use development would be built on the Penn Station Block above and around Moynihan Station East. This development would consist of up to 5.4 million bonus and unused zoning square feet of office, hotel, retail, and possibly residential uses in two towers (not including the existing 32-story Two Penn Plaza building that would remain on-site).

For this option, there is a proposed commercial scenario and a proposed mixed-use scenario that includes residential space. The Two Penn Plaza building on the Seventh Avenue frontage of the site would remain but could be altered to provide additional retail space, and it would be reclad as part of the project.

Environmental review of the proposed Expanded Moynihan Project will analyze a reasonable worst-case development scenario for the Penn Station Block Mixed-Use Development Option based upon two illustrative private development scenarios for the Penn Station Block. Each scenario would include up to 5.4 million bonus and unused zoning square feet of mixed-use
development as shown in Table 1.

Scenario A of the Penn Station Block Mixed-Use Development Option includes residential, hotel, retail, and commercial office uses. Scenario B includes more office and retail uses, a smaller hotel, and no residential space. Under each scenario, the Penn Station Block would be developed with two high-rise towers above a 115-foot-tall shared base. On East 33rd Street, there would be an approximately 1,100-foot-tall tower massed with a lower component, and an approximately 1,300-foot-tall tower would be located on East 31st Street.

Renderings of the new supertallz please! I really hope we see something today or within this week.

They'd be imbeciles or NY tower-haters not to pick the plan with more office.

Renderings of the new supertallz please! I really hope we see something today or within this week.

They'd be imbeciles or NY tower-haters not to pick the plan with more office.

Either plan will have the same amount of office space, they're just unsure of where it will be built. The MSG option puts it all there, while the other option disperses the space in the surrounding area. Either way, they will build two other towers just as tall as the MSG towers: the Hotel Penn tower and the planned "Penn East" tower at 34th and 7th...

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/87763323/medium.jpg

This ideas are going back and forth for almost 5 months now - and they still not decided what to build, where to build and how tall to build. No one has guts and taste anymore.

Well as long as both of them have roofs over 1,100' then I'm pleased.

Well as long as both of them have roofs over 1,100' then I'm pleased.

though 1300 is even better :):)

NY Observer

Vornado Would Dominate 'Like No Other Landlord' Under Moynihan Plans

by Tom Acitelli

Published: October 24, 2007

Vornado Realty Trust stands to win very big if the current plans for Moynihan Station go through. As the Municipal Art Society puts it on a Web site dedicated to the plans: Vornado "will dominate one district like no other landlord in the city."

Vornado, based in Paramus, NJ, and one of the biggest publicly traded landlords in the nation, already owns about 7 million square feet of commercial space between 31st Street and 34th Street west of Broadway.

Under the plans released yesterday by the Empire State Development Corporation, Vornado and its development partner on Moynihan Station, The Related Companies, could get to build over 7 million square feet of commercial and/or mixed-use space, including buildings to rival the Empire State Building in size (though probably not surpass it).

Also, Vornado owns the Hotel Pennsylvania across the street from the current Penn Station and Madison Square Garden. The landlord has long talked about tearing down the hotel and building a gigantic office tower in its place. (Press reports have put the tower's size at no less than 2 million square feet; the Empire State Building is about 2.8 million.)

For perspective, consider this: The World Trade Center site office development--which is spread among different developers, like Silverstein Properties and the Port Authority--should create about 10 million square feet of new office space. Vornado could end up building or helping build nearly the same amount in a roughly 15-block area--where it already owns about 7 million feet.

Vornado properties in the area include the 2.58 million-square-foot One Penn Plaza and the 1.1 million-square-foot 11 Penn Plaza.

Far from everything, but:

Freedom Tower - 1,776'
200 Greenwich - 1,354'
MSG Site Tower I - 1,300'
Penn East Site - 1,250'+
Empire State – 1,250’
Pennsylvania Hotel Tower - 1,250'
MSG Site Tower II - 1,100'
Bank of America Tower - 1,200'
175 Greenwich Street - 1,155'
80 South Street - 1,123'
New York Times Tower - 1,046'
Chrysler Building – 1,046’
150 Greenwich – 980+

What this project brings.

so this is really happening and is there still 2 twin towers (looks like the new TT are born hehe) it will be cool if this really happens

Far from everything, but:

Freedom Tower - 1,776'
200 Greenwich - 1,354'
MSG Site Tower I - 1,300'
Penn East Site - 1,250'+
Empire State – 1,250’
Pennsylvania Hotel Tower - 1,250'
MSG Site Tower II - 1,100'
Bank of America Tower - 1,200'
175 Greenwich Street - 1,155'
80 South Street - 1,123'
New York Times Tower - 1,046'
Chrysler Building – 1,046’
150 Greenwich – 980+

What this project brings.

hopefully more will come :)

i hope these get built. more height for midtown is a step forward

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2007/11/05/2007-11-05_toward_a_fair_deal_on_the_west_side.html

Toward a fair deal on the West Side

November 5th 2007
Editorial

Gov. Spitzer and Mayor Bloomberg are facing big challenges in guiding development that would transform the area around Penn Station markedly for the better. They must protect the interests of New York taxpayers as the project advances.

On the table are the creation of two grand train stations that would serve the Long Island Rail Road, Amtrak and New Jersey Transit; construction of a new Madison Square Garden, and the erection of office towers up to 1,000 feet in height. Each component offers substantial pluses.

The public would enjoy modern transportation facilities, including a station in the Farley Post Office building to be named after the late Sen. Pat Moynihan. New York would gain an up-to-date venue for sports and entertainment. And there would be a welcome addition of office space.

The critical question: Who will pay for a new Penn Station for construction where the Garden now stands? The cost must be met primarily by the real estate developers, Vornado and the Related Cos., which are poised to build, as well as by the Garden's owner, Cablevision. The city and state should bear none of the burden.

This is proper because City Hall and Albany have already bestowed enormous financial benefits on Vornado, Related and Cablevision. By rezoning the Garden property to allow construction of office towers and by offering the arena a new location a block west, officials boosted the value of the land stratospherically - to well over $2 billion at today's market prices. They also gave Cablevision a golden opportunity to escape the outmoded Garden and to open shop in a state-of-the-art facility in the rear half of the Farley building.

Against that backdrop, the developers are negotiating for more. The price tag for creating an airy, efficient transit hub has been estimated at $2 billion, although officials have yet to unveil a design or complete a cost analysis. Vornado and Related have offered to kick in just $450 million, with the remaining $1.5 billion to be covered by federal, state and city funding.

The governor and the mayor must say no on behalf of New York taxpayers. And, federal aid notwithstanding, they must ensure the builders write a check that is far larger than the one they've been discussing. The check must reflect a clear understanding that the government is manufacturing huge wealth for Vornado, Related and Cablevision.

When the city rezoned the Garden in 2005, it permitted construction of up to 5.5 million square feet of commercial space on the site. Instantly, the property value soared. At today's market rate of as much as $400 per square foot, it's well above $2 billion.

Vornado and Related also made a killing under a now-defunct Farley Post Office development scheme. There, the state agreed to sell them the right to build 1 million square feet of space in the neighborhood. The price became extremely favorable as real estate values climbed. It stands at $123 million, several hundred million less than the going rate.

The developers plan to further boost building power by purchasing an additional 1 million square feet of development rights from the state at a price to be determined. All told, they hope to amass 7.5 million square feet of space, an amount equal to almost four Empire State Buildings. And they have the rare and valuable opportunity to put most of it on sites that are ready for building.

Under special zoning amendments, they would then erect a large shopping mall on the Garden site; build two skyscrapers across the street to the north, one more than 700 feet tall, the other 1,000 feet tall, and they would sell 3.5 million square feet of development rights to builders for projects in the surrounding area.

Clearly, Vornado and Related are positioned to reap a bonanza. But the zoning rules say that in exchange, they must make transportation improvements. Which is where the plan to build a new Penn Station enters the picture. Even a $1 billion contribution to the project would be dramatically less than the value that's been created for them by the city and state. Which is why Spitzer and Bloomberg must hold them to every penny of their obligations while shielding New York taxpayers.

That's a let down but it's better than nothing. What happened to 1300?

Nothing is concrete yet. I wouldn't expect us to know what will happen for this project for at least two years.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2007/11/05/2007-11-05_toward_a_fair_deal_on_the_west_side.html
Under special zoning amendments, they would then erect a large shopping mall on the Garden site; build[/color] two skyscrapers across the street to the north, one more than 700 feet tall, the other 1,000 feet tall, and they would sell 3.5 million square feet of development rights to builders for projects in the surrounding area. [/b][/u]

A shopping mall? You have to be kidding me! This is Manhattan, not suburbia!

I'm hoping this plan gets reversed quickly.

A shopping mall? You have to be kidding me! This is Manhattan, not suburbia!

I'm hoping this plan gets reversed quickly.

...I'm sure it will be a very nice shopping mall. :|

wow the design is great!!!

havent been keeping up but is there any "offical" renderings for the site yet?

no, unfortunately not

wow the design is great!!!

Design? What? Where? Isn't it way too early to speak of design?

There is no design. It now appears that the towers will not be built on the MSG site itself but in the immediate vicinity. In NY, unlike any other city in the world to my knowledge, each site has a specific height to which any building can be built. However, developers, under certain constraints, can buy air rights from adjoining buildings to increase the height of new towers. In this case, the developers will be afforded greater latitude in transferring air about 5 m square feet of rights (i.e., 2 Empire State Bldgs) to nearby sites that they own.

Any tall buildings from this megaproject will add to Hudson Yards well. I wonder when we'll see something, even if it's one or two 1,000' supertalls. As long as we can get another one here, the area will be untouchable.

That $4billion tower at the Hotel Penn site and the 2.5MSF tower at the Drake site - I wonder how tall they will be, but that's different. They may be the next two towers to get their threads in the supertall section.

Any tall buildings from this megaproject will add to Hudson Yards well. I wonder when we'll see something, even if it's one or two 1,000' supertalls. As long as we can get another one here, the area will be untouchable.

That $4billion tower at the Hotel Penn site and the 2.5MSF tower at the Drake site - I wonder how tall they will be, but that's different. They may be the next two towers to get their threads in the supertall section.


I hope NYC gets the two supertalls that would replace the Twin Towers on the MSG site, and if Merill Lynch moves onto the Penn Hotel site it will be a 3-million sq. footer (insane height). The Drake site is suppose to have retail at the base with Nordstroms as the anchor.

That's great. I love our office skscrapers the most. It seems like most major financial giants want a new skyscraper on Manhattan. I hope that company that wanted trading floors makes their own tower here in this area of Midtown instead of going to 3WTC.

That's great. I love our office skscrapers the most. It seems like most major financial giants want a new skyscraper on Manhattan. I hope that company that wanted trading floors makes their own tower here in this area of Midtown instead of going to 3WTC.

It seems Spitzer is a bat for Silverstein and wants Merrill Lynch to stay downtown, I don't know how they could squeeze 3-million sq. ft. in 3-WTC without making the entire site design a disaster.

They might add a few more floors to it, and that would be okay because they would still start Tower and I'd be willing to wait, but I don't think so.

Guys, what was this elevation from?
http://www.pbase.com/image/87698191.jpg
The MSG thing?

Because the two smaller towers are 1,400' tall and the larger one is in the 1,900' range since 1 Penn Plaza is 750 feet tall.
If they really are planning on going that tall with so many buildings, I'd faint right now from joy. The smallest one is about 950'.
It says, "over 5MSF," but I bet you could fit that much space in a 1,900 foot tall tower alone.

I am really tired of all this speculative stuff. I want concrete information!

Who knows what out future holds; we can only wait.

I'm still pleased with one nice supertall, and I'm sure that we'll get at least one here.

All I can say is that, no matter what, the view of the Empire State Building and 1 Penn Plaza from the west will be blocked because behind the
supertall(s) of this project will be the supertalls of the West Side, getting smaller the closer they get to the Hudson River.

What exactly is that?

Looks like mid 50's wall art.

Well it's good to know that at least whoever made it isn't going to oppose extremely tall skyscrapers in NY.

This response was completely uncalled for, this person is simply expressing his OPINION, if you do not agree with it then do not respond to it, and if you choose to respond, do not do it in such a manner..! Yes, the response was over the top. However, the poster originally referred to had made over 100 posts in a week, systematically working through and bumping old threads and adding to current ones with inanities such as "cool", "wow", "nice colour", "nice design", "nice building", "very tall" etc etc.

These postings are not "expressing his opinion"; they are pure post-slutting designed to boost the post count and nothing more. It happens all too often in these forums. :(

Yes, the response was over the top. However, the poster originally referred to had made over 100 posts in a week, systematically working through and bumping old threads and adding to current ones with inanities such as "cool", "wow", "nice colour", "nice design", "nice building", "very tall" etc etc.

These postings are not "expressing his opinion"; they are pure post-slutting designed to boost the post count and nothing more. It happens all too often in these forums. :(

Yeah, there's a lot of characters on SSC. A lot of people with personal problems come on here to let out their anger in the form of ignorant, nationalistic posts...thank you mods for your continued service.

If we got ourselves a pair of 1400-foot-high residential towers, it may end up being similar to the deceased WTC Towers. And why does the complex have to be completely residential? It should have been a mixed use project.

Looks like mid 50's wall art.

which isnt bad...

Why should they be mixed use, the point of these building is to creat living space in Midtown. And theres enough office buidling in manhattan and not enough residential towers. So I say keep it as is and get the building them

^^Well then this project sucks. What if the old World Trade Center were residential instead of office?

^^Well then this project sucks. What if the old World Trade Center were residential instead of office?

and?

Just answer the question. What would you do if they were residential?
What would you say?

A residential project nearly in the middle of Manhattan doesnt sound good to me. You go out of your house and find yourself stuck in the crowd. Its better if they are offices.

A residential project nearly in the middle of Manhattan doesnt sound good to me. You go out of your house and find yourself stuck in the crowd. Its better if they are offices.

Its New York crowds dont really matter when it comes to residents. But yes there should be more offices in this area.

i could really care less if it is office or residential. financial district is majorily offices and very few residential... and the place is dead after everyone gets off work. So i think there should be a good balance between the two

It's not like there's no residential buildings now and there are more residential buildings going up in the area.

Just answer the question. What would you do if they were residential?
What would you say?

What kind of question is that, how do you anwser that question. The old WTC building and these building have nothing to do with each other. And I can't anwser that question because I wasn't even born when they were being built. So I can only suggest you ask the people who built them, good luck on that.

nice, its mostly residential?

What kind of question is that, how do you anwser that question. The old WTC building and these building have nothing to do with each other. And I can't anwser that question because I wasn't even born when they were being built. So I can only suggest you ask the people who built them, good luck on that.

Yeah, I should have mentioned I was joking. How do you answer that? idk.

I like a lot of the buildings being built presently, but i wish there were more that werent glass boxes. i like a mixture of different types. why are so many being made like this??


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/icons/icon4.gif
Exclamation

I like a lot of the buildings being built presently, but i wish there were more that werent glass boxes. i like a mixture of different types. why are so many being made like this??


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/images/icons/icon4.gif
Exclamation

You mean glass boxes?
Well, the glass is used for obvious reasons, while the boxes are the most common "type" of skyscraper in New York because it is the most efficient way for building: you occupy ALL the space you are entitled to, maximizing profit in relationship to the money spent. New York is the most expensive city in the world in terms of building space, so a builder wants to get as much money as possible. And a "box" is the most efficient form to achieve this.
If a building space didn't cost so much, then they would probably build as they do in the rest of the world, with a lot of curves and "futuristic" looks that are pleasing for the eye but a total waste of space and money, so, extremely stupid.

You mean glass boxes?
Well, the glass is used for obvious reasons, while the boxes are the most common "type" of skyscraper in New York because it is the most efficient way for building: you occupy ALL the space you are entitled to, maximizing profit in relationship to the money spent. New York is the most expensive city in the world in terms of building space, so a builder wants to get as much money as possible. And a "box" is the most efficient form to achieve this.
If a building space didn't cost so much, then they would probably build as they do in the rest of the world, with a lot of curves and "futuristic" looks that are pleasing for the eye but a total waste of space and money, so, extremely stupid.

yes that makes sense, but why not use other materials besides glass, like stone or marble. I mean, they did with the ESB and Chrysler. and even the citicorp building has a shiny texture that glass cant mimic. Is it that expensive?? to change materials every once and a while??

yes that makes sense, but why not use other materials besides glass, like stone or marble. I mean, they did with the ESB and Chrysler. and even the citicorp building has a shiny texture that glass cant mimic. Is it that expensive?? to change materials every once and a while??

I don't know how expensive the various materials are, but I do know one thing: by using large quantities of glass you can diminish energy consumption for lighting during the day, something that will affect the economic and environmental aspect of the building. Although I do know that a variety of materials is nice, and New York is still building stone buildings (there is one that will be built right next to the WTC site, 99 church street). And there are already plenty of old buildings that make a good contrast.

Weren't these Midtown Towers supposed to be built on the same spot MSG is on now?

MSG will be renovated (http://www.msg.com/renovation/) and modernized (they've announced it in April).

Just answer the question. What would you do if they were residential?
What would you say?

i'd say how much and when can i move in??:lol:
imagine if the WTC was residential and you owned the space where windows used to be, i would not mind waking up to a view like that everyday. though it would cost well over $100 million to buy it in todays dollars.

whats up with this

^^

:sleepy: again.

Grr I was expecting an update when this jumped to the top of the forum!

your not the only one. I hate when people bring up thread from 3 page back ask if theres news. The answer is hell no, We're all sitting on our hands waiting for some.

^^ sometimes it takes a spark o ignite a new conversation on a project, you dont consider that

whats up with this
Backupcoolmen, you're new, so i can't rip you to hard, but please don't bump old threads. If there is new information it will be posted, you don't need to bump it for that.

You have no idea how annoying it is to see an old thread about a really interesting building in your subscribed folder....only to open it and see "whats up with this one?" It makes me want to beat small children. :)

^^ sometimes it takes a spark o ignite a new conversation on a project, you dont consider that

All I want to talk about is, how good it looks when it starts coming out of the ground. Talking about it at this point is meanless. I've been waiting for news on this since May. And I thought I was about to get some. You got my hopes up, that I don't like.

has this project progressed at all?

mods needs to close this thread because there is no news about this project. useless thread for now. :?

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3706/687474703a2f2f7777772e7uh5.jpg
.

Amazing,this towers are realy awesome,wonderful.

has this project progressed at all?

It's basically dead. The Dolans decided to renovate MSG for some asinine reason that I'm sure no sane human will ever comprehend, throwing a giant wrench into the Moynihan Station/Midtown Towers plan (basically eliminating the Midtown Towers since they were supposed to be build on the current MSG site, and making the Moynihan Station plans be massively overhauled). Moynihan Station will still happen, but unless the city/state can somehow manage to get the Dolans to build a new MSG (the only way that's possible, IMO, is eminent domain of MSG and thus the Knicks and Rangers, which will never happen no matter how much every Knicks and Rangers fan in the city wishes it could), these towers aren't getting built.

Does anyone know if there's plans to move these towers to a different site around Penn Station? I haven't heard any.

Dolan say he wants to renovate the arena. it was going to close after last season. Some are saying that renovating is going to cost to much money. That and the building is way to old for it. Let see what happens with the arena before we kill this building.

I have not heard anything on the Monyihan station is a long time. Are they waiting until it is sure that MSG will be renovated?

If so, what a terrible terribe waste of a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for the current Penn Station... I can't believe that in 2050, NYers will still be entering their city like rats comming out of sewers. Ridiculous that there isn't more of a push by the city to make this deal happen.

I'd imagine they're going to make sure the plans for the MSG renovation are final and not some big bluff by the Dolans before they start doing actual work on Moynihan. That said, there's been renovation to the Farley Post Office going on for a few years now, in preparation for the conversion of it into a train station.

If the city can somehow manage to get the Dolans to go for a new MSG, this project will likely happen. I know the developers are still pushing it and trying to get the Dolans to change their minds. Fat chance of that ever happening though.

I'm thorougly convinced the Dolans are nothing but pure evil. I think most of New York (especially Knicks and Rangers fans, and Cablevision subscribers as well) would agree with me. I'm just thankful Steinbrenner stopped them from buying the Yankees in the late-90s, or else I'm sure they would have screwed over the Yanks and any new Yankee Stadium just as they screwed over a new MSG, the Knicks, the Rangers, Cablevision subscribers, the West Side Stadium, the 2012 Olympics Bid (through the West Side Stadium), Hudson Yards, Moynihan Station, these Midtown Towers, West Side redevelopment in general, etc.

I've always wondered what the rationale behind demolishing Penn Station was. I can almost picture the board meeting where it is pitched:

"As you can see we plan to destroy this architectural marvel and replace it with a huge pile of cow dung. We are doing this because market testing is showing a 10% increase in the approval of cow dung and its related nuances. We also think this will contribute to the general mood of malaise and melancholy among New Yorkers and might drive some to relocate to other cities. This is desirable to us because we are evil."

Well, at least I'm pretty sure it must have went something like that.

Very beautiful ! Perfect design for a great skyline !

It's basically dead. The Dolans decided to renovate MSG for some asinine reason that I'm sure no sane human will ever comprehend, throwing a giant wrench into the Moynihan Station/Midtown Towers plan (basically eliminating the Midtown Towers since they were supposed to be build on the current MSG site, and making the Moynihan Station plans be massively overhauled). Moynihan Station will still happen, but unless the city/state can somehow manage to get the Dolans to build a new MSG (the only way that's possible, IMO, is eminent domain of MSG and thus the Knicks and Rangers, which will never happen no matter how much every Knicks and Rangers fan in the city wishes it could), these towers aren't getting built.

Does anyone know if there's plans to move these towers to a different site around Penn Station? I haven't heard any.

The latest news is that the Dolans might sell MSG, the Knicks and Rangers and focus exclusively on their cable business.

any progress???

Yes, we're just hiding it from you. :yes:

Yeah nice job of bringing this thread back from hell dumb ass

"The latest news is that the Dolans might sell MSG, the Knicks and Rangers and focus exclusively on their cable business."

---Oh would that it would be so! The City, State, Amtrak, and NYJ transit could buy the site and put up a new Penn Station (maybe even tear down the high-rise next door?). They could build a structure big enough for a hotel and lots of shopping (yeah, that's gotta happen), and between that and selling air rights they should(!) be able to pay for the new station.

selling MSG doesn't mean there building anything here and it really isn't news. Those teams are costing Dolan money. Since Dolan was going to save the land and build a new MSG. Only way this going gets built is if the new owners do the same.

these towers are going to be such a change for the New York skyline.. ther are so.. differents..

These towers have been in developmental hell for the last three years. MSG was going close 2 years ago before they had a new arena. Dolan change his mind and fix up his crap hole which some said can't really be fix. He's better off selling it maybe then knicks and rangers will win.

Its a vision?

Its a vision?

I wish you were one...
Don't bump threads before reading them!! :bash: