people say dc lacks character because of the transcience of the population. while i see this being true for people in capitol hill, upper nw etc what about ther poorer parts of the city? maybe dc does have a dxdecent % of people whose families have been there for a decent amt of time. for some reason it's not registering. when people tour dc they would have little contact w/these hoods.

People tour the areas for tourists, which are naturally filled mostly with other tourists. Only smart vacationers would know to look elsewhere for character in Dupont, Adams Morgan, Logan Circle or other neighborhoods.

I for one think the lack of character in DC assertions are bogus. DC has about as much character and charm porportionally as any city around. The transient wine and cheesers are just one element. Most of them are in Crystal City and Bethesda anyway.

Vivo,

When I hear statements like that I tend to cringe because that is the perception of DC. The media would have you believe that the heartbeat of the city is shaped by politics and politicians when in fact, that is the furthest thing from the truth. People talk about DC not having character don't really know the real DC. DC has so much local character, flavor and culture that flies underneath the radar because it is contained in the black community. DC, PG and even certain areas of Northern VA are their own little world. If you are black you know what I am talking about. DC has its own food, style, fashion and music scene separate from any other city.

Did you know DC playground (Home of the DC crossover) basketball is nationally renowed. (http://espn.go.com/page2/wash/s/2002/0311/1349476.html.) The high socks that the basketball players wear originated on the playgrounds in DC. DC is also known for boxing and has deep boxing roots. DC has its own go-go and rock music scene. Many of the dances that were created in the late 80's like the cabbage patch, the wop and the electric slide are from here. The Air Force Ones that all of the rappers wear now originated in Baltimore and to a smaller extent in DC back in the eighties. DC has its own lingo and accent just like NY, Baltimore and Philly. Go to any local DC carry out and ask for Chicken and Mambo. You can only get that in DC. One aspect that I respect and love about DC is that it has never been a NY wanabee.

^^ Those are some great examples, and as prolific as DC's black community has been, it doesn't stop there. The emo rock fad that has taken over every nook of this earth from Japan to the UK began in DC in the mid 1980s with bands like Rites of Springs and Embrace (although it's certainly debatable whether this is a positive cultural contribution). One definite positive contribution, however, is the mojito. Despite the many elaborate myths about its creation, the mojito, the national drink of Cuba, was actually first created by Cuban restaurateurs in Washington, DC.

I don't think it's fair to say that DC has a lack of character because much of DC is characterized by its transience. Very few other cities consistently draw such a diverse population for so many different reasons. That in itself characterizes DC to some extent. I do think that DC has suffered somewhat from this, however. I'm making a huge generalization here, but I believe that many of the people that DC does attract tend to be trend-followers and easily manipulated by the national media and popular fads. Luckily DC also possesses a large population of open-minded individuals who think for themselves. So while DC is home to more than its share of tools, it is also where you'll find some of the most genuine, interesting, and down-to-earth people anywhere. So, I guess that is why DC is perceived to not have its own culture - because it attracts such a wide array of people that no one or two cultures can take such a foothold that they influence the entire city.

Vivo,

When I hear statements like that I tend to cringe because that is the perception of DC. The media would have you believe that the heartbeat of the city is shaped by politics and politicians when in fact, that is the furthest thing from the truth. People talk about DC not having character don't really know the real DC. DC has so much local character, flavor and culture that flies underneath the radar because it is contained in the black community. DC, PG and even certain areas of Northern VA are their own little world. If you are black you know what I am talking about. DC has its own food, style, fashion and music scene separate from any other city.

Did you know DC playground (Home of the DC crossover) basketball is nationally renowed. (http://espn.go.com/page2/wash/s/2002/0311/1349476.html.) The high socks that the basketball players wear originated on the playgrounds in DC. DC is also known for boxing and has deep boxing roots. DC has its own go-go and rock music scene. Many of the dances that were created in the late 80's like the cabbage patch, the wop and the electric slide are from here. The Air Force Ones that all of the rappers wear now originated in Baltimore and to a smaller extent in DC back in the eighties. DC has its own lingo and accent just like NY, Baltimore and Philly. Go to any local DC carry out and ask for Chicken and Mambo. You can only get that in DC. One aspect that I respect and love about DC is that it has never been a NY wanabee.

While I'm loving the flavor of what your saying, there are a few things which aren't accurate.

The wop, cabbage patch, etc, didn't start in DC. It started with NY rappers like Slick Rick, Big Daddy Kane etc. It then migragated everywhere. Same with Air Force 1's. New Yorkers been rocking them since like 82 when they came out. Not sure about the electric slide but i'm 99% sure that lady in the 70's (early 80's) made a song about it. Was she from DC? I thought Midwest somewhere...Don't feel like looking it up.

I'm totally feeling you on mumbo sauce however...

I think DC has character. I dont think DC has its OWN character though.. a local character. I say this because most of "DC" is made of imports (people coming to the area for school, work, govt) and outsiders from around the beltway with their nationals baseball caps and redskins bumper stickers claiming to be from DC.

How many people on this forum right now actually live in the city??? were born in the city, went to school in the city??? I wonder how many people claiming to be all about DC can claim "born and raised in DC." With a city population of over 500,000 and a metro population of almost 5 million we know its going to be less than 10%. And thats not taking the college students and politicians in to consideration, and its assuming the remaining part of the citys population was actually born and raised there.

Other cities like Baltimore, Boston, Philadelphia and New York have a history shaped by its own citizens. Washingtons history has mainly been shaped by politicians... Think about it.. what well known stories in our history books regarding DC had to do with something that wasnt political???

So you know Im not DC bashing, just giving you my honest opinion based on what Ive seen I'll end on a positive note.

For now DC IS a political mecca of the nation and the world... I dont know why people cant be happy with that. Its almost like New Yorkers saying they no longer want to be known as the financial center of the world. I think DC should be patient.. like NY, you both have great transportation systems, great architecture, you're both top 10 tourist destinations, you are both built on people coming from many different areas of the nation and world who want to experience your cities (if it werent for immigrants NYs population would be falling, not growing right now).

Only difference.. its been going on in NY for several hundred years and people actually want to live in the city. I think over time these people moving to DC whether in the city or around the beltway will be embedded in the citys fabric and history and will BECOME DC and DC will have its character... yall are shaping it right now so be careful the image you paint.

Now that I think about it, I guess I know why DC doesnt want that government label.. cause who likes the government anyway??? no one i th ink.. Its kind of the same for NY but a lil more evenly divided.. if you love money and capitalism then you love NY, but if you dont then you might hate it... but NY is known for so many other things though like music and art which appeases most opponents of capitalism. DC has to find its OTHER niche I think.. something other than night clubs selling 10 dollar bud lights... thats not the character u want other ppl to know u for. :cheers:

Boston - beans
Baltimore - crabs
Philadelphia - cheesesteaks
Seattle - coffee
NY - pizza/hot dogs
Washington - 10 dollar bud lights

Now that I think about it, I guess I know why DC doesnt want that government label.. cause who likes the government anyway??? no one i th ink.. Its kind of the same for NY but a lil more evenly divided.. if you love money and capitalism then you love NY, but if you dont then you might hate it... but NY is known for so many other things though like music and art which appeases most opponents of capitalism. DC has to find its OTHER niche I think.. something other than night clubs selling 10 dollar bud lights... thats not the character u want other ppl to know u for. :cheers:

Boston - beans
Baltimore - crabs
Philadelphia - cheesesteaks
Seattle - coffee
NY - pizza/hot dogs
Washington - 10 dollar bud lights

Washington - Half smokes

"How many people on this forum right now actually live in the city??? were born in the city, went to school in the city??? I wonder how many people claiming to be all about DC can claim "born and raised in DC."

I was born and raised in DC. Born at Washington Hospital Center. My mother was born at the same hospital. So was my father. He was also born and raised in DC. And, his family too. My family's history in DC is traced back to the late 19th century. I also grew up in a community of people who are native Washingtonians. One man, over 90 years old, has spent the majority of his life in the same house right down the street from us. He still cuts his grass and drives to church every Sunday. I am like family to my neighbours. I can just walk in to a number of houses like I live there. That is in NW DC.

I went to city schools. Dunbar Senior High School. I was in the Pre-Engineering program there. I can honestly say that I had a good education in DC. And, I turned out fine. I also was raised in a family that values education, and they taught me to think independently. It didn't matter the school because my family taught me how to learn outside of the school (going to libraries, going to DC's over 80 museums, etc).

DC is often characterized by people who have not taken the time to get to know the real DC beyond what they see on TV or hear from other people. And there are some people who only know the federal DC, and quite honestly, I sense that is all that they want to know. They come and visit DC without going out to at least some of the 45 neighbourhoods in DC. And, there are plenty of indepedent, unique retail and art galleries in DC that gives it character also (especially in Dupont Circle, Adams Morgan, Barracks Row, U Street, 14th Sreet corridor, Cleveland Park, and Georgetown)

Oh yes, here is some DC character - the crowds of people who spontaneously dance in the parks and on the sidewalks around Dupont Circle to the bands that set up and play all around there. Now, that is lively.

In my 4 years at college park and the past 6 years working in Bethesda Ive learned

PPL from the DC area are die hard redskins fans and hate the cowboys.

DC has a lot of government activity going on.

DC has a lot of museums and monuments and theyre all free.

DC has go go music.. i hate it but thats a personal opinion.

Bama

DC has a lot of over priced clubs selling over priced drinks to people who think its cool to have 100-1000 dollar bar tabs

Dont drive to DC.. you'll get stuck in traffic or lost.. take the metro.. metro is good.

Now ive learned about ppl dancing in dupont circle.. teach me more.. i would like to learn.

Only parts of DC are characterized by politics.. the world beyond the Mall area is completely different, and composed of vast numbers of native Washingtonians and people who were raised in the suburbs in MD or VA but who now live in the District or spent large portions of their lives spending time in DC (like me). Anyone who says that the character of DC is political is exactly the type of person who doesn't know the city well at all. Yes, it is composed of many newcomers, but that is the hallmark of a city with a bright future--many of them will stay, some will leave, just like with any city, but you don't see the population of DC in flux at the moment, demonstrating that there are, in fact, vast numbers of natives or long-term DC residents living in the very characteristic upper NW, NE, and SE neighborhoods. It's hard for a city with such an overwhelmingly politically-oriented reputation (when do you ever hear of DC in the media outside of the Balt-DC area for something not related to politics?) to have its real city character stand out and be heard.

Only parts of DC are characterized by politics.. the world beyond the Mall area is completely different, and composed of vast numbers of native Washingtonians and people who were raised in the suburbs in MD or VA but who now live in the District or spent large portions of their lives spending time in DC (like me). Anyone who says that the character of DC is political is exactly the type of person who doesn't know the city well at all. Yes, it is composed of many newcomers, but that is the hallmark of a city with a bright future--many of them will stay, some will leave, just like with any city, but you don't see the population of DC in flux at the moment, demonstrating that there are, in fact, vast numbers of natives or long-term DC residents living in the very characteristic upper NW, NE, and SE neighborhoods. It's hard for a city with such an overwhelmingly politically-oriented reputation (when do you ever hear of DC in the media outside of the Balt-DC area for something not related to politics?) to have its real city character stand out and be heard.

Whether you want to accept it or not, this is the only thing that comes out of DC.. politics and museums. All that other stuff.. no one knows about it but you.

People from DC have to make up their minds... Do you want other ppl to learn more about you.. do you want to be known for something other than politics and museums or do you want to keep it all to yourselves.

Hypocrisy.

On the one hand you say you want to be known for something other than politics. Someone from the outside chimes in and says but thats all i know about you... politics.. and EVERY time, the response is well screw you, your not from here so you just dont know.

I applaud the one person who told me about people dancing in the streets of Dupont Circle cause that is the FIRST time anyone has ever actually backed up the comment that DC is more than just politics with an actual example giving me insight in to the heart of DC and its people. All the rest of you just continue to complain about just being known for politics.. and you know whats going to come from that.. you WILL be known for more than politics.. you'll also be known for complaining.. and THAT is why DC is seen as a city searching for its character.. because when asked what is your character.. no one answers anything except.. "more than politics"

SO please, as i said before, TEACH ME about this thing that is more than politics.. what is DC.

Being a Baltimorean for rivalry purposes Im usually a DC basher but being that I think this is going to be a DC forum I didnt want to just be an ass and I actually wanted to try to get you started on the right path by stating what I know about DC.. instead of crying about how know one knows about you.. actually DO something about it and start teaching.

house3780,

I can back up my claims about DC with the best of them! Or try to at least.


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1173/553217018_936bbf391d_o.jpg
Dancing in Dupont Circle

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1201/553217008_4fab6b62f5_o.jpg
Dancing in Dupont Circle

Also, have a look at this video of people dancing at Freedom Plaza in downtown DC, right in front of the John A. Wilson (District) building. Enough evidence to you on some of that DC character?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50w0t86zD6g

DC has a lot of clubs. With all these ppl dancing in the streets i guess DCers like to party :banana: :cheers: :nuts:

house3780,

I can back up my claims about DC with the best of them!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/230/478069277_e998f68197_b.jpg
Dancing in Dupont Circle

People do that just about anywhere where there's a band playing outside on a nice afternoon. Even in the town I grew up in in suburban NJ during the weekly summer concerts. I don't think that's evidence of any sort of unique character.

All the rest of you just continue to complain about just being known for politics.. and you know whats going to come from that.. you WILL be known for more than politics.. you'll also be known for complaining.. and THAT is why DC is seen as a city searching for its character.. because when asked what is your character.. no one answers anything except.. "more than politics"


I don't personally understand why people complain about these things. Government, and to a lesser extent politics, is the character of the DC metro... so what! The rest is a combination of the individual elements of the country as a whole. Would they rather have the character of Indianapolis?

these are not concerts, these are people spontaneously dancing in the streets.

And, it sure isn't anything related to politics.

I don't personally understand why people complain about these things. Government, and to a lesser extent politics, is the character of the DC metro... so what! The rest is a combination of the individual elements of the country as a whole. Would they rather have the character of Indianapolis?


It is only a character of DC, one of many possible characterizations. To be content and to acknowledge one of them, especially a very staid and uncreative one like politics, is just not satisfying and not a part of the creative class of what makes world-class cities around the world memorable. And, the pulse of DC away from the National Mall (the people who live and grew up here) is not all centered around politics anyway.

The confidence level amongst Washingtonians could stand to go up a little and to embrace and teach to others about the multiple faces of our neighborhoods.

these are not concerts, these are people spontaneously dancing in the streets.

And, it sure isn't anything related to politics.

Same thing, bands playing outside on the small town green or the streets of a major city. Some choose to dance. I see it everywhere. From Bethesda all the way to Santa Monica.

Same thing, bands playing outside on the small town green or the streets of a major city. Some choose to dance. I see it everywhere. From Bethesda all the way to Santa Monica.

Ok, fine. Then, I challenge you to add to the discussion about DC character. Give us an example or two! It doen't even necessarily have to be unique character, but something noticeable.

It is only a character of DC, one of many possible characterizations. To be content and to acknowledge one of them, especially a very staid and uncreative one like politics, is just not satisfying and not a part of the creative class of what makes world-class cities around the world memorable.

It's true the DC metro has one of the highest concentrations of creative class workers (as defined) in the nation, just not the glamourous kind you find in NY or LA. (fashion, industrial design, the fine arts) In my opinion, DC is NOT a world class city, not only because it doesn't possess this glamour, but more importantly because it lacks in the way of industry or finance. Even Baltimore has us beat there.

As far as politics being staid and uncreative, I totally disagree. It can be quite exciting and creativity can be the most important skill. Certainly a lot of people are interested in it, or it otherwise wouldn't be so pervasive in print and broadcast media. On the other hand of course, working at the DOE is the epitome of lifelessness. Luckily, government employment is dropping and government contractor employment is taking up the slack.

That being said, I've NEVER been in a situation where I mentioned I lived in the DC metro and people gave a negative opinion of the city, its people, or the region as a whole. So I think a lot of folks overdo the impact of some of these so-called perceptions.

I think it's too much to ask to find something besides politics that is entirely unique to DC. If anything, DC is unique amongst all others because it has something that is entirely unique to it. Most other cities can't say that. Baltimore has its crabs, but take a trip to the Florida Keys or Louisiana/Texas along the Gulf Coast and they'll tell you all about crabs too. New York toots its horn with its pizza and hot dogs, but go to Chicago and they'll do the same, so will St. Louis. Seattle drinks Starbucks and Seattle's Best, Portland drinks Stumptown.

DC has politics, LA has Hollywood. Other than that, we're all just pulling from the same pot, and if we're lucky, someone will put just enough spin on an old idea to make everyone else notice.

Whether you want to accept it or not, this is the only thing that comes out of DC.. politics and museums. All that other stuff.. no one knows about it but you.

People from DC have to make up their minds... Do you want other ppl to learn more about you.. do you want to be known for something other than politics and museums or do you want to keep it all to yourselves.

Hypocrisy.

On the one hand you say you want to be known for something other than politics. Someone from the outside chimes in and says but thats all i know about you... politics.. and EVERY time, the response is well screw you, your not from here so you just dont know.

I applaud the one person who told me about people dancing in the streets of Dupont Circle cause that is the FIRST time anyone has ever actually backed up the comment that DC is more than just politics with an actual example giving me insight in to the heart of DC and its people. All the rest of you just continue to complain about just being known for politics.. and you know whats going to come from that.. you WILL be known for more than politics.. you'll also be known for complaining.. and THAT is why DC is seen as a city searching for its character.. because when asked what is your character.. no one answers anything except.. "more than politics"

SO please, as i said before, TEACH ME about this thing that is more than politics.. what is DC.

Being a Baltimorean for rivalry purposes Im usually a DC basher but being that I think this is going to be a DC forum I didnt want to just be an ass and I actually wanted to try to get you started on the right path by stating what I know about DC.. instead of crying about how know one knows about you.. actually DO something about it and start teaching.

I'M NOT COMPLAINING! Lol wow... talk about being misread, and extremely rude. For "rivalry purposes" you usually bash DC? Wow again. I'm from literally just outside the DC border and I support both DC and Baltimore with gusto. If you say you don't know much about DC outside of its stereotype, then what do you think gives you the right to bash it in the first place?

I'm saying that politics is what DC is known for and it overshadows its other aspects, and it probably always will to a certain extent. The city geographically cannot get any larger and its population will be constrained to some extent by this fact. The people that live here have created a character of their own. IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT, THEN GO EXPLORING! I'm not going to provide you with proof in a forum lol. That's a ridiculous request. Read the Washington Post about life in DC if you don't feel like leaving Bethesda or downtown DC to actually go exploring.

"That being said, I've NEVER been in a situation where I mentioned I lived in the DC metro and people gave a negative opinion of the city, its people, or the region as a whole."

I have. Time and time again.

It's true the DC metro has one of the highest concentrations of creative class workers (as defined) in the nation, just not the glamourous kind you find in NY or LA. (fashion, industrial design, the fine arts) In my opinion, DC is NOT a world class city, not only because it doesn't possess this glamour, but more importantly because it lacks in the way of industry or finance. Even Baltimore has us beat there.

Disagree. "Glamor" as you defined it, does not make a city world-class. I don't think people equate Chicago as being glamorous (speaking from an outside point of view), but I don't think anyone would dispute its world-class status. DC is a world-class city because of its position in politics (this is not a bad thing), as well as its enormous collection of museums, cultural attractions, high-tech INDUSTRY, and its striking ability to attract people from across the country and world to this fast-growing employment environment. Let's not forget that after NYC and Chicago, DC has the largest downtown of any other city in the entire country, a downtown that is growing, not only in the amount of office space, but is also being transformed into a hub of residential and retail activity through and through. It is a growing and transforming city, and if you don't think it meets world-class standards now, just wait 15-20 years down the line. It's also a mistake to exclude the immediate suburbs in this assessment of its world-class status. Because it is geographically small in size, the immediate inner suburbs in parts of Montgomery, Prince George's, Arlington, and Fairfax counties, as well as the City of Alexandria, should be included in the cultural and economic assessments you are making.

The one thing that I think DC lacks are social and cultural innovators. The ability to attract this type of innovation has been constrained by conservative Congressional oversight, but with more lax oversight coming around the corner, hopefully this aspect of DC will change. I posted an article from the Post concerning this a while back in this forum so go search for it.

i live in columbia heights, and i can say my neighborhood residents' propensity to litter all over the place is definitely a characteristic of my neighborhood. and people getting shot while waiting for the bus. that's another one...

I'M NOT COMPLAINING! Lol wow... talk about being misread, and extremely rude. For "rivalry purposes" you usually bash DC? Wow again. I'm from literally just outside the DC border and I support both DC and Baltimore with gusto. If you say you don't know much about DC outside of its stereotype, then what do you think gives you the right to bash it in the first place?

I'm saying that politics is what DC is known for and it overshadows its other aspects, and it probably always will to a certain extent. The city geographically cannot get any larger and its population will be constrained to some extent by this fact. The people that live here have created a character of their own. IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT, THEN GO EXPLORING! I'm not going to provide you with proof in a forum lol. That's a ridiculous request. Read the Washington Post about life in DC if you don't feel like leaving Bethesda or downtown DC to actually go exploring.

You just summed up everything I just said. You are NOT from DC. (born and raised in SILVER SPRING) And you have NOTHING to say as to what DC is all about which will leave everyone wondering.. so whats with DC anyway??? POLITICS. Its complete cowardice to just back away and say look it up for yourself and leads me to believe you know nothing about DC.

I know not much about DC either, but the difference between you and me is instead of pretending to know something and debating on the topic, I will ask a question.

sorry for being rude. Im really not trying to be an ass but Im just speaking my mind. And when discussing topics I really cant stand it when someone unknowledgeable on a topic will argue for arguments sake and will use no facts and back no statements up.. complete cowardice.

Again, this is not an attack on you or your character, just on this type of tactic.

Disagree. DC is a world-class city because of its position in politics (this is not a bad thing), as well as its enormous collection of museums, cultural attractions, high-tech INDUSTRY, and its striking ability to attract people from across the country and world to this fast-growing employment environment. Let's not forget that after NYC and Chicago, DC has the largest downtown of any other city in the entire country, a downtown that is growing, not only in the amount of office space, but is also being transformed into a hub of residential and retail activity through and through. It is a growing and transforming city, and if you don't think it meets world-class standards now, just wait 15-20 years down the line. It's also a mistake to exclude the immediate suburbs in this assessment of its world-class status. Because it is geographically small in size, the immediate inner suburbs in parts of Montgomery, Prince George's, Arlington, and Fairfax counties, as well as the City of Alexandria, should be included in the cultural and economic assessments you are making.

You have mentioned the obvious.. politics, museums, and have even given one of the most superficial arguments ever.. a statistic.. not just a statistic about ppl, but a statistic about buildings.. who cares if DC has the third largest downtown.. is DCs character based on the size and number of its buildings???

Your missing the whole point of this topic.. DCs character.. and by DC we dont mean its buildings. Believe me.. you are not helping revitalizers cause by mentioning that DC has a large downtown. You are only feeding the notion that DC does not have a character when you have to reach for something as souless how many buildings a city has. Anyone can look that up but only someone who grew up somewhere can tell you about the true CHARACTER of a city from their experiences living in the city. I now question whether you have been to anywhere in DC besides the mall and downtown. And please dont list the neighborhoods which you have driven through.

We havent said it but Im guessing when we mention a cities character we mean its neighborhoods and its people... the SOUL and ESSENCE of the city.

We already know that DC is a world class city. But I think we will all agree it is this because of its political centeredness in the world and because of its great museums. (also great downtown and accessibility [metro, pedestrian friendly downtown/mall]

But as we stated before, people are arguing that theres MORE to this.. and I dont think they mean downtown.

Again.. I am in no way trying to be rude to you.

"That being said, I've NEVER been in a situation where I mentioned I lived in the DC metro and people gave a negative opinion of the city, its people, or the region as a whole."

I have. Time and time again.

I have, as well. When I bring friends with this negative opinion to visit me and take them around DC, their opinions quickly change.

I definitely don't want to turn this into a Baltimore vs. DC thread, but I'm not really understanding where people are coming from when they say that DC is nothing but politics. So, since I think most can agree that Baltimore is a city that exudes character, I want to know how would you describe Baltimore's character? Is it in the food we eat? The music we listen to? Or is it something much larger that encompasses our very being?

I ask because I think if we're going to say, "A has character, and B does not," we need to figure out why A has character and B does not, and in order to do that, we need to determine what makes up character. Right now, I don't think any of us are on the same page.

You have mentioned the obvious.. politics, museums, and have even given one of the most superficial arguments ever.. a statistic.. not just a statistic about ppl, but a statistic about buildings.. who cares if DC has the third largest downtown.. is DCs character based on the size and number of its buildings???

Your missing the whole point of this topic.. DCs character.. and by DC we dont mean its buildings. Believe me.. you are not helping revitalizers cause by mentioning that DC has a large downtown. You are only feeing the notion that DC does not have a character when you have to reach for something as souless how many buildings a city has.

We havent said it but Im guessing when we mention a cities character we mean its neighborhoods and its people... the SOUL and ESSENCE of the city.

We already know that DC is a world class city. But I think we will all agree it is this because of its political centeredness in the world and because of its great museums.

But as we stated before, people are arguing that theres MORE to this.. and I dont think they mean downtown.

Again.. I am in no way trying to be rude to you.

I mentioned that DC's downtown is not only large, but changing. The soulless-ness of downtown, the superficiality of it--those are subjective arguments on your part. I'm not even talking about buildings creating a soul (don't know where you pulled that from), but they definitely are part of it, and demonstrate the strength of a city. All parts of DC define its character, whether it be a bland but growing less so downtown, or the exciting, charming, interactive, and definitely characteristic neighborhoods of U Street, Adams Morgan, Mount Pleasant, Cleveland Park, and countless others. Its older population has been here for generations, and the younger 20 and 30-something transient population naturally has come from many other parts of the country. Same thing happens with NYC, Chicago, LA and Philly. We are a nation with a hugely transient population, one of the most transient in the world. GO EXPLORING!!!!!

I have, as well. When I bring friends with this negative opinion to visit me and take them around DC, their opinions quickly change.

Thanks for helping the cause, pennster! I'm glad to hear this.

I know exactly where he takes them... the mall, downtown, georgetown.. been there done that.

I definitely don't want to turn this into a Baltimore vs. DC thread, but I'm not really understanding where people are coming from when they say that DC is nothing but politics. So, since I think most can agree that Baltimore is a city that exudes character, I want to know how would you describe Baltimore's character? Is it in the food we eat? The music we listen to? Or is it something much larger that encompasses our very being?

I ask because I think if we're going to say, "A has character, and B does not," we need to figure out why A has character and B does not, and in order to do that, we need to determine what makes up character. Right now, I don't think any of us are on the same page.

When people outside this region think of Baltimore, they largely think it is an unsafe city that has a harbor and some seafood. It has some of the same reputation issues as DC in terms of safety and crime, many of which overshadow its true character as well. Most Baltimore tourists go to the Inner Harbor and rarely go exploring elsewhere to explore its true character either.

Your listing places on the subway map!!! I learned about all those places while workin in DC and having worked outside of DC the past 6 years.

Your not from DC and you know nothing more than the average tourist. Stop posing. At this point being that Ive lived and or worked in and around DC the past 10 years, Im guessin I know more about DC than you.


and im still waiting to hear more than ppl dancing in the streets.

"The wop, cabbage patch, etc, didn't start in DC. It started with NY rappers like Slick Rick, Big Daddy Kane etc. It then migragated everywhere. Same with Air Force 1's. New Yorkers been rocking them since like 82 when they came out. Not sure about the electric slide but i'm 99% sure that lady in the 70's (early 80's) made a song about it. Was she from DC? I thought Midwest somewhere...Don't feel like looking it up."


Gunna,

Your wrong about the air force ones's. They were first released in Bmore in 1982 in Downtown Locker Room. People in my neighborhood in NW DC heard about them and we use to go up to Bmore in groups to get them. I can't find the article in the Bmore Sun that talked about how Baltimore and DC to a smaller extent put them on the map in 82 but I did find this link. http://freshnessmag.com/v4/2007/01/23/nike-air-force-returns-to-baltimore-to-celebrate/

All those dances originated at go gos clubs in DC. I think you are confusing the wop with the NY wop which was different. Back in the day, Salt and Pepa used to come to the go gos and play with a band called EU. "My Mike Sounds Nice (One of their first songs) is a Go Go song that was created by EU (who also created Da Butt and a song called the Cabbage Patch). That's where the dance originated.

Hey House3780, here's my next attempt!

So, I'm asking....... What other place has half smokes? Isn't this unique?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half_smokes

From Source Wikipedia:

"A half-smoke is a type of hot dog found in Washington, D.C., United States and the surrounding region. A half-smoke is slightly larger than than a regular hot dog, spicier and with more coarsely ground meat; it is usually grilled but can be found steamed. It is commonly made of beef, pork or a combination of the two, and is served on a hot dog bun. In 2000, The Washington Post Magazine named the half-smoke as the regional food in the Washington Dish Contest. Due to their size, they are often mistaken for the Polish sausage kielbasa."

"The "original" half smoke is considered to be the sausage distributed by D.C.'s Briggs and Co. meatpackers, originating in around 1950, though Raymond Briggs started selling his half-smokes circa 1930. Eventually Briggs was sold to another meat distributor, where the quality of the meat allegedly was eroded."

"Ben's half-smokes, which are all beef, are arguably the most renowned in the city and, once grilled, are split enough to run a line of mustard down the middle before topping with chili con carne and chopped onions. Comedian Bill Cosby is known to eat three half-smokes in one sitting during his occasional visits to Ben's Chili Bowl. Former mayor Anthony Williams often went to Ben's in an effort to improve his home-town credentials; he even went so far as to mention it in his inaugural address.[2]"

I never heard of a half smoke before. At first I thought it was referring to those real small cigarettes.. and i was wondering.. how do cigarettes have anything to do with beans, crabs, pizza, etc
:nuts:

washingtonpost.com
Look No Further!
The Thrilling End Of The Grueling Search For A Washington Dish


Sunday, October 8, 2000; Page W26


We asked for it, and we got it.

Our request for proposals went out on July 30. That was when the Post Magazine formally lamented Washington's lack of a signature dish and challenged concerned citizens to come up with one. We didn't ask for much -- only a recipe and an explanation of why it would produce a dish that would be a worthy symbol of the city. We even offered a prize. What we got was, well, a lot of nominations -- 618, to be precise.

Sure, there was plenty of duplication and overlap among them (don't worry; we'll do the statistical analysis later), but overall they provided a powerful reminder that Homo sapiens is living pretty high on the food chain. All of your major domesticated ungulates -- your steers, pigs, sheep, goats -- were represented in the entrees, as were your fin fish and your shellfish. Chicken dominated the poultry field, but not to the exclusion of turkey, duck, pigeon and emu, not to mention crow. Legumes and leaves led a wave of salads and soups, with roots showing here and there. Desserts depended heavily on fruits and beans (cacao, coffee, vanilla). It may be a sign of our boundary-erasing, increasingly globalized times that gelatin and Cool Whip were featured about equally in salads and desserts.

So the judges -- the Magazine's editors; its new food critic, Tom Sietsema; and The Post's food editor, Jeanne McManus -- suffered no lack of choice. Instead, we suffered a surfeit of choice. But we forged on, building our case files and taking off on impromptu tasting expeditions. And after lengthy review and vigorous debate, we came to a unanimous, even inescapable, decision:

The half-smoke is the Washington dish.

Here we may have to pause to tell recent immigrants to our fair city what, exactly, a half-smoke is. It's a smoked sausage, like a hot dog but fatter and more coarsely ground. The half-smoke is ubiquitous at the carts that dot downtown intersections during workdays. It is the featured dish at Ben's Chili Bowl, that pillar of the U Street community. And it is widely believed to be the only food item unique and indigenous to Washington.

Well, it is and it isn't. It doesn't take a distinguished professor emeritus of meat science to explain this, but it helps. Bob Rust, who taught at Iowa State University from 1959 until he retired in 1994, says you can easily get a smoked sausage in just about any region of the country -- but each region can lay claim to its own variant. So the smoked sausage is a phenomenon both national and local.

Perhaps you can see where we're heading with this.

Now, about our local variant: It's on the spicy side (so flirtatious with danger). It's most often made with pork and beef, but it can also be made entirely of either (so adaptable to dietary restrictions). And then there's the name.

Half-smoke.

Huh?

It means nothing. Meat-packing people say it has no clear origin, and no obvious referent except the thing itself. But it suggests anything. "Half." The art of compromise. "Smoke." What the political process encourages its participants to blow. Half-smoke-filled rooms: Where the power-hungry are served!

Need we say more?

Oh, yes. And the winner of the First Ever Washington Post Magazine Washington Dish Contest is . . .

John Binkley of Potomac, for his nomination of Smoke 'n' Beans, or half-smokes with white beans (see recipe, page 28). He's a 57-year-old economist with the Inter-American Development Bank's private-sector development group, but he likes to cook. Eight other contestants nominated the half-smoke, but he had the most enterprising recipe (it can include the same beans used in the Senate's renowned navy bean soup). And in explaining why he thought the half-smoke should be the Washington dish, he was the only one to cite Bismarck's dictum that the people should not see how their laws, or their sausages, are made.

For his recipe, and his rationale, he gets dinner for two at the area restaurant of his choice, up to $300.

The other 617 contestants have our undying respect and gratitude, and the hope that they may find some explanation, if not consolation, in the following statistical analysis:

You might have thought that pork would be an obvious choice for Washington, but then, you would have been among the 62 contestants who relied on the same joke ("Just walk into any congressional office and you'll find heaping platters of it waiting to be served," was one version).

Cherry-related nominations were the second most numerous, with 51. That includes an impressive number of cherry cobblers, plus cherry corn bread, cherry soup, cherry steak, cherry cake, cherry shortcake, cherry crisp, cherries jubilee and, yes, cherry ravioli (a dessert).

The famed Senate navy bean soup was the third most-nominated dish, with 43 proponents. "It's a dish that can represent the people, yet is served daily to those in power," wrote Ellen Douglas. "It has national history. It has local flavor. It tastes good." No argument here.

Also abundantly represented were dishes that incorporated the colors red, white and blue. Most entrants achieved this spectrum in the dessert course, but someone proposed tricolor tofu.

There were also many wonderful dishes that didn't seem to qualify as regional, although entrants did their best to justify them. One entrant sought to make the case for kebabs by arguing that Washington is a town in love with skewers; several offered up the idea of an American pie (usually cherry). Macaroni and cheese was surprisingly popular, as were hamburgers. The judges had not known that gazpacho was a dish particular to this region. Ditto for chili, crepes, BLT sandwiches, Rice Krispie treats, minestrone, red beans and rice, a cheesecake that absolutely, positively had to be made with Philadelphia-brand cream cheese, and a Marion Berry Cobbler (made with marionberries from Oregon and Washington state). Localized names could not disguise generic or exotic cooking ("Greenback Salad" for broccoli and bacon; "Politically Incorrect Pie" for pork, onions, celery and potatoes; "Capitol Wrap" for thin-cut emu steak).

Other entrants had a hard time taking the contest very seriously. ("How about mush with no substance, heated by hot air?" is a representative sample.) Others took the opportunity to walk down memory lane: In addition to childhood trips to the Senate cafeteria for soup, contestants recalled the triple-decker hamburger at the late, lamented Hot Shoppes, rum buns from the old Flagship restaurant on the Maine Avenue waterfront and the crab imperial at the old Harvey's on Connecticut Avenue. Among the extant eateries cited were Nora's (anything fresh on the menu), Popeyes (fried chicken, natch), Sholl's cafeteria (cherry pie, of course), Ledo's (square pizza), Whitey's of Arlington (fried chicken with Jezebel sauce), Eastern Market Lunch (bacon-egg-and-cheese sandwich), Horace & Dickies on 12th Street NE (fried-fish sandwich), the Fairfax Deli in Dupont Circle (tuna sub), Shuman's Bakery in Alexandria (the George Washington's Birthday cake) and, of course, the aforementioned Ben's Chili Bowl.

Perhaps the most original entry was for roast pigeon. To collect the necessary fowl, our contestant proposed, one "tosses out some crumbs and then slams a box over some pigeons and voila -- dinner."

Thanks, but we're out of here. Off to the market for some half-smokes.

THE WINNER

Smoke 'N' Beans

Submitted by John Binkley of Potomac

For the beans

1 pound dried white beans

(navy, Great Northern, blackeye peas or your preference)

Water to soak

Two 14-ounce cans chicken stock or broth

1/2 cup diced smoked meat, such as ham or smoked sausage

(may substitute 2 smoked ham hocks)

1 cup diced carrots

1 cup diced celery

1 cup diced yellow onion

2 to 3 tablespoons minced garlic

1 large dried bay leaf

2 tablespoons dried herbs, such as thyme, rosemary or oregano

5 to 6 whole cloves

Freshly ground black pepper to taste

One 14-ounce can diced tomatoes and their juices

Salt to taste

Hot red pepper sauce, such as Tabasco, to taste


For the half-smokes

1 to 2 tablespoons oil

12 half-smokes

Chopped parsley, diced or sliced sweet onions,

such as Vidalia, or sweet pickles (for optional garnish)


for the beans: Rinse the beans under cold water and drain. Place the beans in a deep saucepan and add enough water to cover by 2 inches. Bring the beans to a boil. Immediately remove the pan from the heat; set aside and let stand, covered, until the beans are firm but can be pierced with a fork, about 1 1/2 hours.

Drain the beans and transfer them to a deep pot. Add the stock or broth, diced meat or hocks, carrots, celery, onion, garlic, bay leaf, herbs, cloves and black pepper. Add just enough water to cover the beans, cover the pot, and cook over low heat, stirring occasionally, until the beans soften and the liquid becomes creamy and thick, about 2 1/2 hours. Add water if necessary to keep the beans covered. Uncover the pot and cook the beans for 30 minutes more.

Stir in the tomatoes, salt and hot sauce. If using ham hocks, remove the hocks and set aside to cool slightly; dice enough ham to measure 1/2 cup and return the ham to the pot, discarding the hocks. Remove and discard the bay leaf. The beans are ready to eat at this point, but will taste better if served the next day.

If serving immediately: Taste and season accordingly.

If serving the next day: Cool the beans completely, cover and refrigerate overnight. To reheat, place the pot over low heat, stirring occasionally, until beans are warm, being careful not to burn them. Taste and season accordingly.


for the half-smokes: In a large skillet over low heat, heat the oil. Add the half-smokes and cook on each of their four "sides" until a brown line forms, about 10 minutes per side. The half-smokes should sizzle very gently; do not raise the heat above low.

To serve, place a large serving of beans in the middle of each plate. Place 2 half-smokes on top of the beans and, if desired, garnish with parsley, onions and/or sweet pickles. Accompany with a simple green salad and crusty bread, if desired. Serves 6.


© 2000 The Washington Post Company

House,

I'm from DC. I was born and raised here. Anything character that Baltimore offers you, you can get the same thing in DC. I'm not talking about tourist traps and buildings. You have to know what you are looking for. There is a culture that exist that people like yourself will never see unless you hang out with someone who is REALLY from DC. But the difference is that most people in DC care less what other people think about us. We have respect for other cities but we do our own thing. It's always been that way.

I know exactly where he takes them... the mall, downtown, georgetown.. been there done that.

Rudeness again. How old are you?

Yes, first we go to the Mall, the museums they want to see. Georgetown HAS character, and surprisingly good shopping, plus Dumbarton Oaks. Then I'll take them to a bistro in Woodley Park; we'll go to a movie at the Uptown in Cleveland Park; we'll go to a bar in Adams Morgan to hear live music; to a hookah bar in Tenleytown; we'll take a stroll around Dupont Circle to listen to street musicians and then to its residential area to explore the homes we want to buy some day; we'll go to Bethesda or the G'town waterfront for dinner; to Silver Spring for some jazz, coffee at Mayorga, and ice cream at Moorenko's, and to a trendy lounge in Logan Circle; we'll go to a crazy bakery on U Street and visit the cheap independent boutique shops sprouting up everywhere; we'll visit friends at Catholic University; party at the Univ. of Maryland; go to a concert and see fireworks on the Mall at July 4th; go clubbing in Northeast in a seedy, but character-infused neighborhood; do some (window) shopping in Chevy Chase/Friendship Heights; take a hike or bike ride through Rock Creek Park to have a picnic, maybe even go ride along the C&O Canal; go rowing on the Potomac River; and after all this, we've still only begun to explore what the area has to offer. It's too bad Eastern Market is closed for the time being--that place was a DC institution. Opportunity, that's the name of the game. How do you define DC's character aside from politics? You can't, you just have to experience it.

If we're defining character by a single food item that most people in the city probably rarely eat, then what's the point? If Baltimore didn't have crabs it would still be Baltimore, and if DC didn't have half smokes, it would still be DC. You gotta dig deeper than that and get at the spirit of the city.

If you want character, check out Smith Island sometime. It's two hours away and they don't even speak the same language much less eat the same foods.

Thats why I ask why is a forum like this even here though DCBaby. I said earlier.. someone from DC will make a comment like.. DCs got its own style/character/importance/somethin more than the govt. y dont other people realize this.. someone like me will ask ok what is it.. and the response i ALWAYS get is.. well go find out for urself.. i dont care if u know or not.

I can only wonder.. if u dont care, then y is it a topic???

But you know.. my theory now is.. ppl who are actually FROM DC dont care and yall know who yall are, but the people out in the burbs are the ones always bringin the stuff up cause theyre the ones with the real identity crisis.

I think thats why I'll learn about half smokes from someone from DC and I'll learn about the nominal gdp of DC from someone outside of it (reminds me of BalWash who constantly bombarded us with one statistic after the next). Like i know thats how it is for me in Baltimore... Someone from 695 can tell you where the national aquarium or phillips is, but I can tell you where to get a good chicken box... Sometimes i hear people in baltimores forums worrying about what other cities are doing.. or they'll say we as baltimoreans have an inferiority complex.. and im like YOUve got the inferiority complex.. I think we're the real deal already.. Chicago, NY, they got nothin on us ;)

House, you've insulted someone or some group of people in every single post you've made. I'm from the "burbs" but I spend most of my free time going out doing things in DC (I live on a freakin Metro stop)--we don't have an identity crisis, we know where we live, what there is to do, and the types people we live with. If you don't want to make the effort to go find out about the places you're asking about (even after forcing out of me a massive list of things to do), then get the hell out of this topic.

If living on a metro stop and knowing a list of places to go validates you as a "Washingtonian" cool. Congradulations

I admire your love for the city but you still nevertheless know no more than someone like myself who just works in the area, yet you speak as though you do.. For that I have no respect. You know nothing about DC. Just admit it and stop posing.

Character of DC defined by me:

I can look at most people from there style of dress and their accent and tell if they are really from DC/PG. But I can only do this with black people.

Here are some of the activities that I do that define the character of DC:

Hanging out in Adams Morgan til 5 oclock in the morning with thousands of people on the street partying.

Riding my bike for miles and miles on Sunday through Rock Creek Park.

Going to H20 or the Zanzibar on the waterfront and talking to Condoleeza Rice's speech writer. True story.

Going to the Congressional Room and running into

Getting stuck in traffic downtown because of a 20 minute motorcade.

Going to Ben's Chili Bowl at 3:00 am to get a half smoke to kill my hang over.

Eating at an Ethiopian, Thai, Jamaican, or Chinese restaurant on U street.

Walking down to the Mall on a summer's day to catch a movie, play softball or to take in the atmosphere.

Listening to Go Go music infused with R&B and Jazz (Chuck Brown).

Going to Urban Coalition to watch DC street legends torch NBA stars.

Going to the wharf to get crabs (not just a Bmore thing).

DC will never get away from the political stereotypes because it plays such as huge role in our lives. People just need to realize that we are more than that.

Thanks, thats really cool =-O

I used to work buy farragut north.. i always thought the police blocking all the cars off and this long line of black cars flying by (some suvs filled with guys in all black and automatic rifles) was pretty cool.. but i was just walkin to metro so i didnt have to worry about traffic.

And I seriously never heard of halfsmokes till now.. but i dont know.. that picture on wikipedia looks kinda scary. O_o

I admire your love for the city but you still nevertheless know no more than someone like myself who just works in the area, yet you speak as though you do.. For that I have no respect. You know nothing about DC. Just admit it and stop posing.

If living on a metro stop and and knowing a list of places to go validates you as a "Washingtonian" cool. Congradulations

What, first of all what gives you the right to judge someone's "DCness." Second of all, you sound like a giant ignorant jackass. Your whole argument thus far has been that since you don't live in the city, you don't know anything? What are you, five? Are you incapable of understanding the differences between DC's suburbs and every other city's in the country, Silver Spring is continuous development to DC, same for Bethesda, NoVa would be too if not for the river. You claim to know nothing about DC, and yet you seem to be qualified enough to judge what others know who live on the freakin' border of the city. DC has it's own character, just as Baltimore does. You've been challenged to come to DC and explore the areas. I've gone to Baltimore, I've walked around, away from Inner Harbor, I don't think I'm an expert on it's "character," but I believe I know enough to get an impression. All you've done is attack the people here and when multiple people have come forward as having spent the majority of their lives in the city, you continue to focus on someone who lives on the edge of the city's "border." Seriously.

House,

In DC, we get the feeling that Bmore people hate us to a certain degree. I do think that a large percentage of the Baltimore area population has an inferiority complex. I know a lot of DC people who love Bmore. Personally, I think it's a great place. Both cities are very similar and very different in many aspects. Bmore is more laid back and down to earth. DC is just the opposite in certain regards. There is a lot of arrogance and semi fake sophistication going on. It's all about money, who you know, where you shop, how big is your house. This encompasses the burbs too. And you don't have to be from DC proper to be a Washingtonian. That title is reflected in your attitude. Or how we say in the black community -how you carry yourself.

How much do you want to bet the guy above is not from DC??? I bet u DCBaby all the people that will be offended are livin on 495. And notice how just like pennster.. he in no way shape or form defined DCs character. Instead, just more complaining.

But im not tryin to divide yall cause when im in Baltimore Im like.. Im from the city, your from the county, but when theres someone from the outside, we both become from baltimore and Im gonna stand by him as if he were from the city.

Lots of people have that inferiority complex.. I have no idea why.. I could see if it were cause of schools and crime, cause those things suck pretty bad in the city. But its never about somethin like that.. its about somethin like we dont have a building over 1000 feet tall or clubs chargin 10 dollars for a bud.. me, IM like who needs those anyway.

Whether yo were specifically answering my question or not, DCBaby, I thank you for finally laying it out; and I think you've more or less demonstrated what I'm getting at. With a few exceptions, most of what you've listed is not characteristic of DC - bike riding, being stuck in traffic, watching basketball, partying in the streets.... this could be anywhere in the United States or even the world. The more interconnected our world becomes, the more we lose that which makes us different. Before computers, tv, and the car, the town down the road might have felt like a different world. Now you can fly across the world to Japan, go into a McDonald's, order in a different language, pay with a different currency, and still get the same meal they serve in in downtown Baltimore.

But I kind of agree with what Pennster said in that you have to experience the culture. It can't be explained. You can go to Baltimore, listen to Baltimore Club, eat Pit Beef and play a game of lacrosse, but you'll only get the Inner Harbor Baltimore. Baltimore has a character, but its the history of the city as a seedy port town founded by watermen, the struggle between the North and South during the Civil War, the countless hours of labor put in by Polish, German, Irish, Greek, Italian immigrants who arrived at Locust Point seeking a dream that didn't exist, the fifty year decline of the city through blockbusting and urban renewal, drugs and corruption - that is what is in the hearts and souls of Baltimoreans, that and the knowledge that over the past three hundred years this city risen and fallen from greatness so many times that even those of us who know this city like the backs of our hands have no idea what to expect from it. The character is something that you feel, more than anything that you do or say. I'm sure DC has character, but I don't feel it the way that someone like DCBaby or Pennster does because I haven't lived it. As everyone here has said, you really have to know a city before you can say you know it's true character.

Just as a little homework to demonstrate my point, jump over to the Portland forum on SSP sometime. There isn't a better example that I know of to demonstrate a city's true character. Notice how, where everyone else asks, "how tall?" or "how many stories?" or "how much will it cost?" the Portland forumers asks, "Is it LEED certified?" or "How socially responsible are these developers?" It really is a different perspective, and it stems from who these people are and why they live in Portland. It's interesting.

"If you want character, check out Smith Island sometime. It's two hours away and they don't even speak the same language much less eat the same foods."

Hey, PeterSmith, I'll go and check that out!

Just as a little homework to demonstrate my point, jump over to the Portland forum on SSP sometime. There isn't a better example that I know of to demonstrate a city's true character. Notice how, where everyone else asks, "how tall?" or "how many stories?" or "how much will it cost?" the Portland forumers asks, "Is it LEED certified?" or "How socially responsible are these developers?" It really is a different perspective, and it stems from who these people are and why they live in Portland. It's interesting.

Thats a really great point and excellent observation.. I never thought about something like that and will try out that line of thinking from now on =-O

@ revitalizer

It's really neat. I went there once when I was little. I don't remember much. My brother works at the hospital in Crisfield, MD though, which is the closest hospital to Smith Island, he says sometimes Smith Islanders come in. Depending on how old they are and how much outside exposure they've had, it's really hit or miss as to whether you can understand them. Every once in a while the local news will interview people from Smith Island. More often than not, they have to use subtitles. Try the Smith Island cakes. I'm not sure what's in them, but they're good. You can buy them along the road without having the take the ferry to the island.

Hey House, what's Baltimore's character?

This giant abstraction we've been discussing is little more than a biased caricature based upon minority segments of a city's population. Honestly, what's any city's character? I think the only character I care about is neighborhood vibrancy, shopping choices, cost of living, environment, cultural institutions, global prominence, job market and food, not stupid stereotypes like everyone in Baltimore knows about crabs/sailing, everyone in LA is shallow, everyone in NYC is very busy/rude and everyone in DC is boring. City character is just another way that we humans like to divide ourselves into our own little groups, which we consider better than all the other groups.

Id say one of Baltimores biggest characteristics is the separation of its neighborhoods. U'll have the slums and a pretty well to do neighborhood literally across the street from each other and they never seem to intermingle. A lot of ppl comment on this that visit the city.. they'll say one minute we were in the harbor and happy, and then when we went past the light we were somehow in hell =-O

Baltimore is a bar town and a beer town vs DC clubs and liquor.

Baltimore is laid back as DCBaby said.

We're slow to catch on to new things.

We're usually anti glamour/glitz.

Baltimore has a pretty well known gay and transgender community. Lexington market has the scary ones. Mt vernon has the fun ones.

Lots of cities deal with gangs.. we mainly just have a bunch of thugs.

I got more but i gotta leave work, i'll write more after my commute from bethesda to baltimore.. >_<

Back.. here are some more things

Despite how many ppl get shot sitting on them doin absolutely nothing.. u'll always find someone sitting on their stoop/porch in the middle of summer, doing absolutely nothing... or u'll see someone peaking out of an open window on the second floor lookin down on the street where nothing is going on.

In many baltimore neighborhoods u'll always have AT LEAST one of these on EVERY block.. a church, a liquor store, and a chinese carryout.

Along with that, id have to say chinese carryout is prolly more prevalent in a baltimoreans diet than mcdonalds or any other fast food chain..

Throw in KFC, popeyes, chicken boxes and ANYTHING fried for that matter and u'll understand why baltimore was confused as to why it was ranked fittest city this past year.

It was mainly ranked cause of another one of baltimores features... parks and trees... my brother always comments when he visits from ny on his trips up and down 83 (once u get past druid hill) and how he never gets to see trees in the city when hes in ny. its no wonder why many ppl think the city ends at cold spring and dont realize pimlico race track is in the city... i heard two sports personalities mention it as being 10 minutes outside the city and i was quick to write both of them and get on their cases...

thats another thing about baltimoreans.. mayb there is an inferiority complex (none here though ;)) but we still have a lot of pride and if anyone gets anything wrong about our city we'll be quick to jump on their case and correct them.. even though our city has a lot of things wrong with it.. we wont turn our backs on it.. and as bad as our neighborhood may be we'll never let an outsider talk bad about it...

we are also all about rivalries.. in house and out. when ppl outside of baltimore talk about east and west rivalries ppl think of snoop dog and pdiddy.. but in baltimore its all about what side of charles street ur on.. u may be 8 years old and have never even been outside of ur neighborhood, dont even know what charles street is or what the rest of the city looks like, but u know if ur on the west side or east side... even though theres a north and south.. its still always east vs west...

hmmm what else

please see next comment! thanks

Well ladies and gentlemen,

I just finished another one of my statistic and fact-finding missions, and I have the following information to report relating to DC nativity and language.

This information was provided by the DC State Data Center in its Winter 2007 Quarterly Report.

In 2005, 13 percent of people living in DC was foreign-born, 87 percent were natives, including 40 percent who were born in the District.

So, what this means..........

Total population in DC for 2005 was estimated at 582,049. Of those 582,049 persons, 232,819 of them were born in DC.

Would you not say that 232,819 is a sizeable number of people born and still living in DC?

I also believe that there is a disconnect between the native born D.C. residents and the transient residents of DC. They don't seem to be communicating with each other. Otherwise, people, especially recently new residents to DC, would not be so surprised when I tell them that I was born and raised in DC. They act like it doesn't exist in the numbers that I have just presented above. Right?

Here's a link to the source:
http://newsroom.dc.gov/show.aspx/agency/planning/section/2/release/11066

(Click on Selected DC Demographics 2005*)

Other interesting statistics:
* Of people at least 25 years old, 45 percent of those DC residents have Bachelor's degrees or higher. 45 percent, folks! But, the divide between well-educated and poorly-educated population is growing. It probably will be 50/50 pretty soon.

* 84 percent of DC residents speak English at home
* 16 percent of DC residents speak a language other than English at home

DC will most-likely cease to to a majority-black city by 2012 (my prediction) with no one race having the majority. DC racial and cultural diversity will end up looking a lot like New York City with a strong immigrant influence that will help to keep DC growing as well as DC Metro area residents who will continue to move into the city proper from the suburbs.

Did you look up the stats for other cities?? i dont really know what that 40% means unless i have somethin to compare it too but thanks for lookin up the DC stats.

I'm going out for some fun today, but I'll do some more research when I return. Until then, here are a few statistics about New York City.

A whopping 36 percent of the residents of New York City are foreign-born.

(NYC) Immigrants tend to be disproportionately between the ages of 18 and 64: In 2000, 79 percent of the foreign-born were in this age group, compared to just 56% of the native-born.

I will target in on the native-born NYC population, excluding New York City, its suburbs, and migrants that come in from around the country.

Plus, I'll look at other cities around the country.

I will verify the source of this info above, plus I will get the "real" source when I finish my partying and whatever else.

Here is some native-born information about San Francisco:

From Wikipedia.......
"Few of San Francisco's residents have lived there their whole lives. Only 35 percent of its residents were born in California; 39 percent were born outside the United States.[44]"

The caveat is that what percentage of the 35 percent of California-born residents were actually born and raised in San Francisco. So, we can deduce that the number of native-born people in San Francisco is less than that 35 percent.

DC's number of native-born residents living in DC is 40 percent, so DC has a higher population of native-born residents than San Francisco does.

The problem is that in addition to DC being ranked among cities, it is also commonly ranked among states. Of course we should know that States will have a native-born population that is higher because they are States that cover a much larger area than the city of Washington, DC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco,_California

This information is hard to track down because most cities are in States where people move around in their own state. It is hard to track down native-born population statistics for city only because they can use the state-born statistics to boost the numbers. That still doesn't mean that those state-born people are native city-born residents. DC is not in a state, and its suburbs include counties in 3 states (MD, VA, and WV).

Yeah those numbers are to be expected from NY and San Fran.. theyre international cities as opposed to being simply world class cities... ppl dont just come to visit for pleasure or business, they come to stay.

But yeah, its like I said earlier.. NYs population would be falling if it werent for immigrants.. I cant remember the article or recent time period it was referring to (maybe the last decade??), but it said NY has had 1 million new immigrants (both citizens and foreigners) vs about 700,000 ppl leaving the city over that time period.

Yeah those numbers are to be expected from NY and San Fran.. theyre international cities as opposed to being simply world class cities... ppl dont just come to visit for pleasure or business, they come to stay.

But yeah, its like I said earlier.. NYs population would be falling if it werent for immigrants.. I cant remember the article or recent time period it was referring to (maybe the last decade??), but it said NY has had 1 million new immigrants (both citizens and foreigners) vs about 700,000 ppl leaving the city over that time period.

Haha. You just made the post of the day. Congrats! And, Washington, DC IS an international (world) city as well! And, world-class and international are basically one in the same if you really want to know! More importantly, "world city" is the official designation, not world-class, and not international.

13 percent of DC residents (meaning they live here, not just visiting) are foreign-born (international) and increasing with each passing year.

But, I just went out and proved (with facts and not rumours) that DC out-migration and in-migration negativity is way overblown. I also proved that the DC native-born population percentage is higher than many major US cities.

From the official GaWC (Globalization and World Cities) list:

Alpha world cities / full service world cities (Official GaWC List)
12 points: London, New York, Paris, Tokyo
10 points: Chicago, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, Los Angeles, Milan, Singapore

Beta world cities / major world cities (Official GaWC List)
9 points: San Francisco, Sydney, Toronto, Zürich
8 points: Brussels, Madrid, Mexico City, São Paulo
7 points: Moscow, Seoul

Gamma world cities / minor world cities (Official GaWC List)
6 points: Amsterdam, Boston, Caracas, Dallas, Düsseldorf, Geneva, Houston, Jakarta, Johannesburg, Melbourne, Osaka, Prague, Santiago, Taipei, Washington
5 points: Bangkok, Beijing, Montreal, Rome, Stockholm, Warsaw
4 points: Atlanta, Barcelona, Berlin, Budapest, Buenos Aires, Copenhagen, Glasgow, Hamburg, Istanbul, Kuala Lumpur,Manchester, Manila, Miami, Minneapolis, Munich, Shanghai

You can also view the official map here:
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/citymap.html

And, the official list here:
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/citylist.html

And, here you can read about the research methodolgy going into world city rankings:
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/rb/rb5.html#tab3

Ugh... The GaWC...I can't stand it. Whatever criteria determined that Shanghai, Berlin, Istanbul and Buenos Aires are of equal character as Minneapolis, Atlanta, Miami and Manchester needs to seriously be re-evaluated.

Anyway, DC's character was alive and well at the United game tonight. Go Black-and-Red!

Hey PeterSmith,

Just keep in mind that it is not "character" that determines this list. It is on what level a city's impact has on the world economy and globalisation.

If you'd take a look at my reseach methodology link in post #68, you'd see just how such a list is compiled.

These areas include:

* Global Services Centres in Accountancy
* Global Services Centres in Advertising
* Global Services Centres in Banking
* Global Legal Services Centres

And, this "character" thing we've all being talking about is subjective anyway.

So, it's nice to see DC United doing well too...............
I hope the win-streak continues!

Yeah, I suppose I should have chosen a different word than "character" when I made my comment. My point was that, as far as I know, the goal of the GaWC is to rank cities by the influence they have on the rest of the globe. For the most part, it does a decent job, but the criteria is such that every once in a while a city like Dusseldorf, Germany will slip in front of a place like Berlin, Germany.
My bigger beef is that people on these forums tend to use this list to justify saying, "My city is better than you city because my city is a Beta world city and yours is only a Gamma world city..."

Ugh... The GaWC...I can't stand it. Whatever criteria determined that Shanghai, Berlin, Istanbul and Buenos Aires are of equal character as Minneapolis, Atlanta, Miami and Manchester needs to seriously be re-evaluated.


You speak the truth.

hey, I do see what you mean and can agree to a certain extent with the "my city is better than yours" rants. And, I do see how this can be frustrating.

But, we are just going to have to live with the fact that some cities have more influence on the world than other cities, thus making them more important than others. This ranking is one of the most objective lists that we can use. The rest is just mostly subjective.

It just so happens that Düsseldorf DOES have more influence on the world than Berlin does. In fact, Frankfurt, Germany has more influence on the world than Berlin does as well. The capital markets, the financial centres, and the advertising centres of Germany are not concentrated in Berlin. And, in the US, the financial centre, the capital markets and such are not concentrated in the USA's capital city.

Düsseldorf leads the advertising industry in Germany, Düsseldorf also has a very important financial role, and also a stock exchange. Berlin does not have that stuff.

And, as great and beautiful that Berlin is, it just does not have the influence that other cities have. Speaking aesthetically or culturally or environmentally, you can most certainly come up with a different answer. And, I've just so happened to have lived in Germany for a period of years, so I can speak from some experience.

New York, Paris, London, and Tokyo are easy choices because they lead almost all categories of what is economically important in this world. Plus, they also so happen to be centres of other areas as well.

I have no problem coming to grips that other cities in the world or more important or even "better" than my city. But, I am also going to be one of the ones who will be fighting to make my city more important or the subjective "better".

Washington, DC is right on the verge of becoming a Beta world city. The DC Council has recently changed its regulations on banks and insurance companies so that they can now be chartered and headquarted in Washington, DC more easily than the what we had before. We are seeing the initial effects of that right now. Much work needs to be done, but we just need more people involved that can make it more of a magnet for the banking industry.

What is important is that we take pride in our cities for what is good about them, whether it be economics, architecture, transportation, environmental friendlines, etc. We can do our part to make them better by getting involved, knowing the facts, stop spreading non-truths, and start routing for our cities to get higher up on the list of world cities.

I myself am looking forward to starting my own financial services business in Washington, DC in the coming years. We'll see how that goes.

Interesting stuff, revitalizer. I have no qualms with Frankfurt being listed where it is, but Dusseldorf bugged me. I always thought of it as Germany's fashion center, but didn't know that it had such an economic role as well.
I recall vaguely reading some months ago on the GaWC website that the listing actually takes into account a "bias rating" in which is gives Western cities a bump up simply for being Western, possibly under the assumption that the Western world has a greater influence than the rest of the world. I'll try to see if I can come up with that link again.

But interesting stuff about the changes coming to DC as well. DC is an anamoly, as it could easily top any list of global influence or be stuck somewhere in the middle like it is here, depending on how you judge influence.

Yes, they're working on it! The DC Department of Insurance, Securities and Banking (DISB) will have more on its plate in the coming years.

Source: http://newsroom.dc.gov/show.aspx/agency/disr/section/2/release/10841/year/2007

March 29, 2007

District Adopts New Captive Insurance Laws
Changes Will Give the District Competitive Advantage as a Captive Domicile

Commissioner Thomas E. Hampton of the District of Columbia Department of Insurance, Securities and Banking (DISB) and District of Columbia Councilmember Mary M. Cheh (Ward 3) today announced that two captive insurance laws passed by the Council of the District of Columbia are officially in effect as of March 14, 2007. Introduced by Councilmember Jim Graham (Ward 1), the “Captive Insurance Company Amendment Act of 2006” and the “Special Purpose Financial Captive Authorization Amendment Act of 2006” were passed at the end of 2006 and signed into law by outgoing Mayor Anthony A. Williams.

“The establishment of a regulatory scheme for securitizing insurance risks in a captive and the amendments to our protected cell statute will put the District ahead of other jurisdictions in our captive insurance regulation and attract more captive insurance companies to the District,” said Commissioner Hampton. “DISB is pleased with the Council’s efforts to make the District of Columbia’s financial regulatory environment more responsive to market changes, and the District more competitive as a captive domicile.”

A captive insurance company is one that insures the risks of the corporation or association that owns the company. It is a form of self-insurance that has been gaining popularity over the past decade both in the United States and in the international financial market. Since 2001, when the District enacted its captive insurance law, DISB’s Risk Finance Bureau has licensed more than 70 companies, including those owned by such iconic organizations as the American Society of Association Executives, General Motors and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

The Captive Insurance Amendment Act updates and expands the Captive Insurance Company Act of 2004 on the formation and structure of protected cell captive insurers, providing greater flexibility to captive owners, managers and regulators regarding the status and actions of protected cell companies. The Special Purpose Financial Captive Act provides securitization of risk and allows access to capital markets through special purpose captives, which will make the District’s captive laws more compact and easy to use.

“The District is uniquely positioned to leverage its status as the nation’s political capital into making the city more of an international financial center,” said Councilmember Cheh, chair of the Council’s Committee on Public Services and Consumer Affairs, which has oversight of DISB and captive insurance services. “I believe we as a Council are committed to being at the forefront of the nation’s captive insurance laws and ensuring the District remains a magnet for captive companies.”

The Captive Insurance Council of the District of Columbia (CIC-DC), whose mission is promoting the District as a captive insurance domicile, has been working with DISB in ensuring the passage of the new laws.

“These new laws should make the District an even more attractive location for the formation of new captive insurance companies,” said Larry Smith, chair of CIC-DC. “Now our captive regulations will be the most advanced in the United States in terms of access to capital investment and flexibility in forming protected cell insurance companies. Each captive insurance company that locates in the District has a multiplier economic effect through its business presence, its capital deposits and the use of local professional service providers.”

CIC-DC offers quarterly breakfast seminars on captive insurance in partnership with DISB. For more information on the District’s captive insurance or the new captive laws, please visit DISB's website or contact DISB’s Risk Finance Bureau director Dana Sheppard at (202) 727-5074.

thanks, PeterSmith and others, for having such an interesting conversation about this.

Well, to justify that DC is a world city, the criteria that the GaWC uses is not political at all because they are judgding mostly on banking, advertising, legal services, and accountancy. With all that, DC still makes the cut, even at a higher level than some people would have thought. Of course, politically, DC would most certainly have an even higher ranking.

Yes, Düsseldorf has over 170 financial institutions and 130 insurance agencies located there. It is also at the top of the German mobile phone market.

Have a nice evening and a nice start to the week everyone!

I just want to know why Dallas and Ft. Worth are counted together by GAWC, but Baltimore and Washington are not, even though they're the exact same distance apart. Also, I'm pretty sure San Jose is counted in with San Francisco because without San Jose, SanFran is only around 5 million people and has only a fraction of the total bay area tech industry.

Also, I'm wondering if DC gets the same number of points for being a capital as say Ottawa, London or Berlin considering DC is far more politically influential than those cities.

I'm shocked at where GAWC ranks various cities...I think their system is rather flawed.

modestproposal,

if you'd take some time to read the research methodology link I posted earlier, you'll see that this is not about politics. This is also not about being a capital city. This is also not about population. This is about how economically influential a city is in the world based on the very economically important and diverse areas of banking, legal services, accountancy, and advertising.

Washington and Baltimore were considered separately for this ranking as they are separate cities. Where do you see that Dallas and Ft. Worth are counted together? Dallas is listed by itself!

Lastly, San Francisco is a world city in its own right without San Jose or anywhere else. Just look at how many international and Fortune 500 companies, banking institutions, law firms, etc are located in San Francisco. It doesn't need any help.

For now DC IS a political mecca of the nation and the world... I dont know why people cant be happy with that. Its almost like New Yorkers saying they no longer want to be known as the financial center of the world.

Arguably, the financial crown has been passed to london. The London Exchange gets bigger every day, and Londoners have the advantage of being on GMT. They can make calls to California and the Far East, all during their regular business hours.

9/11 didn't help anything for NYC either.

For now DC IS a political mecca of the nation and the world... I dont know why people cant be happy with that. Its almost like New Yorkers saying they no longer want to be known as the financial center of the world.

Arguably, the financial crown has been passed to London. The London Stock Exchange gets bigger every day, and Londoners have the advantage of being on Greenwich Mean Time. They are literally at the center of the world. They can make calls to the West Coast and the Far East, all during their regular business hours.

9/11 obviously didn't do any wonders for NYC either.

Sorry for the double post guys...that was amateur. Internet is being flaky at my office and I didn't think the first one went through.

Id say one of Baltimores biggest characteristics is the separation of its neighborhoods. U'll have the slums and a pretty well to do neighborhood literally across the street from each other and they never seem to intermingle. A lot of ppl comment on this that visit the city.. they'll say one minute we were in the harbor and happy, and then when we went past the light we were somehow in hell =-O

Baltimore is a bar town and a beer town vs DC clubs and liquor.

Baltimore is laid back as DCBaby said.

We're slow to catch on to new things.

We're usually anti glamour/glitz.

Baltimore has a pretty well known gay and transgender community. Lexington market has the scary ones. Mt vernon has the fun ones.

Lots of cities deal with gangs.. we mainly just have a bunch of thugs.

I got more but i gotta leave work, i'll write more after my commute from bethesda to baltimore.. >_<

So all that defines Baltimore is that it's neighborhoods are seperate, people there drink beer, it's laid back, old fashioned, anti glamous, has crime and has gay people? Is that all that gives a city "character?" DC's neighborhoods are seperate, people here drink liquor, people here are high strung, people here are not old fashioned, we like glamor, we have crime and we have gay people. Looks like DC has just as much character as Baltimore.

The kind of people that think DC has no character are the kind of people that think character only comes from poor people, crime, artsy people, people who listen to modern hip hop or rap and people who do graffiti or drugs.

Good looking on the Air Force one Clarification....

DC's got character sure......but as much as Baltimore? ....Hmm.....



http://farm1.static.flickr.com/169/484081036_8fb0b859c6.jpg?v=0

Nuff said!

DC's cultural scene is dominated so much by government and politics that outsiders rarely see the real city and the real neighborhoods. Many of you don't know that U street in DC used to be called black broadway, boasting a slew of after hour spots and clubs where Duke Ellington and the likes would play all hours of the night catering to the black elite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_broadway

This area has been reborn with the same flavor but catering to an international and gentrified crowd. If you can't find a party in DC every night of the week, then you don't know how to party.

DC has over 100 neighborhoods giving you anything you want at anytime.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_neighborhoods_of_the_District_of_Columbia_by_ward

How can "Chocolate City" not have any character?

I vote that DC has character. Anyone who says otherwise has not lived in or near the city for any length of time. Or, they are homebodies. :-)

I agree with DCBaby. DC does indeed have character. The city suffers from what I like to call the "Vegas Effect" in that what is known to go on here tends to eclipse people's perception of the city itself. Everyone thinks of what goes on in government and many tourists only see the National Mall. The thing about a city like Vegas is that there's nothing you really want to see beyond the glittering casinos whereas DC has a rich cultural history. DC does have quite a transient population, but I think that's part of its identity for better or for worse. Anyone who thinks DC lacks character should take a trip down to Ben Chili Bowl on U street.

Now that I think about it, I guess I know why DC doesnt want that government label.. cause who likes the government anyway??? no one i th ink.. Its kind of the same for NY but a lil more evenly divided.. if you love money and capitalism then you love NY, but if you dont then you might hate it... but NY is known for so many other things though like music and art which appeases most opponents of capitalism. DC has to find its OTHER niche I think.. something other than night clubs selling 10 dollar bud lights... thats not the character u want other ppl to know u for. :cheers:

Boston - beans
Baltimore - crabs
Philadelphia - cheesesteaks
Seattle - coffee
NY - pizza/hot dogs
Washington - 10 dollar bud lights

I will help this list a little, cause this is just so stereotypical

Washington - Half Smokes, and Jumbo Slices .. both AWESOME

and I lived in DC for years (Dupont Circle) and I was never once involved with, connected to, interested in, exposed to politics.. if you want that scene, then you will get into it, if you don't Its almost like it doesn't exist.. DC=politics is obviously true, especially to outsiders.. but really it is not this way.. as for the mall, it's not a place people who live in the city goto.. there are many other places

DC's got character sure......but as much as Baltimore? ....Hmm.....



http://farm1.static.flickr.com/169/484081036_8fb0b859c6.jpg?v=0

Nuff said!


Funny, I know who the people are who came up with this ad.. and I know the motivation is to play on peoples love of symbols of the city .. If like yourself you say .. "this is baltimore", then you are more likely to goto smyth..
To bad the Utz girl has never been Baltimorean.. Hanover, PA last I checked.. and the Boh guy is Baltimore, but sadly is not brewed anywhere close to here (now North Carolina by Miller) .. Baltimore's character's are attachments that the city hangs on to .. it is the same way that the Ravens are named after Poe, but really Richmond is Poe's true place .. I love this city, but I think people from here are sometimes very provincial

^^ ^^
Natty Boh was made here for generations and corporate mergers etc took the brewery away but its still a Baltimore brew as far as consumers go. Yeah UTZ is made in Hanover( in Baltimore's sphere of influence) and until UTZ's recent expansion of its sales turf(I Just saw some while visiting New Hampshire! no Crab Chips though) its been a local chip for sure.Remember the "Too Bad For the Rest of the World...." ad campaign a while back? You can still get fresh Utz packed in a bag for you at the local markets. Boh, Utz is all part of our regional memory hence their relevance to the whole character issue.Provincial? .. Sure! Isn't that what character is all about?
Poe was all over the place sure but the Baltimore Curmudgeons (Named in honor of Mencken) just doesn't roll off the tongue as well as Ravens.

Provincial? .. Sure! Isn't that what character is all about?


Uhhh... wha???

I love this city, but I think people from here are sometimes very provincial

You say you love the city and insult it at the same time. :ohno: But that's nothing new. People insult Baltimore all the time, yet Baltimore could care less. That's part of it's character, not caring what people think.

I find this whole discussion rather interesting.

I fell in love with DC after a few visits with friends. I love DC in that I believe that the true soul and essence of the city is not to be found on Capitol Hill or downtown, but the neighborhoods, from Adams Morgan to Georgia Avenue. Many of the suburbs also have character, and although they are swallowed up in the city's urbanized area, they still retain their identities to an extent either do to their history or the way they are reinventing themselves.

Someone mentioned buildings and architecture, which I think plays a great role when considering a city's character and sense of place--especially when you take into account the height restrictions, which I think have worked in DC's favor.

I've thought about that with Ottawa too. Whether the political environment and transience has made Ottawa less characterful.

DC culture is always been dominated by Politics. Everyone knows that when you mentioned DC, they will not think about the culture, the music, the nightlife. It's all about Politics! Too bad, that's the "GEOGRAPAHY" of this city. Think about that. If a tourists visit this city, where they will go? Of course you know where - Its "THE MALL". The Problem with The Mall is it only has museums, memorials, gardens and federal buildings. AND THATS IT!!! They don't see DC what locals want them to see. There are no shopping center in the mall, no bars and restaurants, no theaters, not even a hotel!

The best way to integrate DC to locality is to scatter those important memorial parks, museums and federal buildings to different areas in DC. Just like the way Paris do it (e.g Champs Elysee between Arc de Triumph and Louvre) or the way London do it to its Federal Buildings, Museums, and Palaces by integrate it with localities, and even like the way "Ancient Rome" does it by scattering many of their buildings to different places like their forums, bathhouse, the colloseum and the hyppodrome. However, thats not possible anymore because most of the memorials, museums and federal buildings in DC are merged into one place now. Thats why you don't see tourists at Dupont Circle and you don't see office employees at The Mall.

Read this article:

http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2007/08/20/story6.html

And, read this article:

http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2007/08/20/daily17.html?surround=lfn

Oops, that first article is for paid subscribers only. I've had a subsription for a few years now. Anyway, I'll give a hint..... Survey says.....There are plenty of tourists that come to DC for.....gasp....the culinary experience, nightlife, and entertainment options. And, DC is becoming more known for those exact things with every passing year. Yes, I know. It's hard to believe since people ONLY go to the National Mall and don't go to Georgetown, Adams Morgan, Penn Quarter, or Dupont Circle when they visit.

Part of the problem with the image of DC is that of most American cities. Most Americans live in the suburbs and small towns and rarely visit cities for vacation. They don't realize cities have changed everywhere.

DC had such bad repuration in the 1980s with that whole deal about the crack cocaine being found near the White Hourse and then there was the label of "murder city".

The other problem is that DC has the mall which is like a big magnet. It keeps visitors from getting out into the neighborhoods.

And DC is still viewed as a dull government town. Rivitalizer mentioned restaurants. Few people outside of the city seem to know that DC has developed an amazing restaurant scene in the last 10 years. When I leave town to go to other cities like Paris and Rome I amazed to see that the DC is right up there with the best. Yep, that's right!