Now that African economies are growing faster then ever:banana: . Which countries in Africa do you think will emerge as the "African Lion":cheers: economies and industrialize first. I think that South Africa, Kenya, Senegal and if they could get things together Nigeria.

south africa, kenya and sudan

Ghana, Kenya, South Africa,Angola, Cameroon, Sudan.

Lion Cubs: Eq. Guinea, Gabon, Botswana, Namibia. Like the lions, but too small to make as big an impact even though they to will grow and industrialize.

Dante, I agree with your selections but I have a question, why Cameroon over Nigeria ?

What about North-Africa are they skipped on this thread ? Only SSA ?

Dante, I agree with your selections but I have a question, why Cameroon over Nigeria ?

What about North-Africa are they skipped on this thread ? Only SSA ?

I had always thought it would be SSA by default(typically is...), but if I were including North Africa I'd add Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt. Most of North Africa is already pretty industrialized in any case, but those 3 countries I think could really jump ahead. Egypt is getting a lot of investment-I'm hearing about a bunch of new car factories and the like going up there, and they even signed a contract recently to manufacture 80 chinese military jets.

I chose cameroon over nigeria mainly because:

1. it has a higher standard of human development already, having entered the medium development of the Human Development index a while ago, while Nigeria will still take maybe a decade to get there, if not more.

2. Cameroon seems a bit more stable. Nigeria is having far too many problems with internecine conflict for me to get too excited about it becoming an African lion just like that. We all know Nigeria can become an African lion IF it gets things together. That is a really big if.

Once it finally resolves all of this conflict, gets the poverty rate below 50%, and finally shows that it is even close to realizing its true potential(larger increases in GDP, an improvement with regards to world corruption rankings, etc, etc), I'll call it an African lion. That could happen in a decade or so. Right now? No.
Those countries are already in better shape overall than Nigeria, so by the time Nigeria does get it together, they will have already become the African lions(or lion cubs). Hence, I put their names up there instead.

I am somewhat optimistic now about Nigeria(although cautiously). The new president seems like he'll be better than the last to, given the fact that he is confident and he is actually literate with a college education. And despite the issues with Nigeria today, its HDI has been increasing:

Human development index, 1975 0.317
Human development index, 1980 0.376
Human development index, 1985 0.387
Human development index, 1990 0.407
Human development index, 1995 0.419
Human development index, 2000 0.433
Human development index, 2004 0.448

Which is a good thing. The problem is, those other countries are already ahead. Hence, they'll be the first African Lions, and Nigeria will follow them.

LOL... who are you all fooling? You chose Sudan with all the problems in Darfur and you left out Nigeria?

The list is evident

NIGERIA NIGERIA AND NIGERIA
and Egypt

Goldman Sachs believes that only two countries in Africa will overtake Italy in GDP size by 2015 i.e. Nigeria and Egypt.

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf

This is a reputable prediction that has more facts than all of you altogether. I remember the last time I posted it, the same well-wishers of Nigeria said we cannot predict if a civil war could mess up the prediction!

Naijalove, thanx for the link!:)

Africa´s Potential Lion Economies in the next decade

Nigeria(condition: reof Niger Delta Crisis , $30bn invested into physical infrastructure in the next three years but normally this should be no problem for Nigeria, if those conditions are met , the coming two yyears will be very crucial for Nigeria if all the major conditions are met - infrastructure, "controlled" corruption and stability - the sky is the limit:cheers: )

South Africa (it already is an emerging market)

Egypt

Algeria

Angola (the GDP of that country has spiralled upwards tremedously in the past years, it will continue to sky-rocket in the years to come)

Sudan

Morroco

Kenya

Ghana

Senegal


Africa´s potential lion baby economies

Tunisia

Botswana

Namibia

Gabon

Mauritius

Cape Verde (for tourism, financial offf-shore centre, real estate projects)

Sao Tomé (loads of oil)

Mozambique

I chose cameroon over nigeria mainly because:


No way, Nigeria has the potential to become and African Lion!
Personally, I don´t think that Cameroon will make it (high level of corruption, disunity between anglophone and francophone part of Cameroon, who comes after Paul Biya is gone ????, high levels of internal and external indebtedness, decaying infrastructure etc.). When it comes to investmenst, everyone would eye Nigeria over Cameroon. (this is no attack against Cameroon)

i feel ghana has even more future potential with the discovery of oil...as for nigeria it is definetly going to be an african lion

For me GIANT is a word above LION and nigeria is definately GIANT,What you should search for now LIONS and TIGERS.

MY LIONS TO BE: EGYPT

SOUTH AFRICA(MAYBE ALREADY LION)

ALGERIA

SUDAN
MY TIGERS TO BE:ANGOLA

LIBYA

GHANA(FOR IT UNCOVERS OIL)

Naija, "African Lion" is a catchword coined for Africa´s (potential) emerging markets which is akin to South East Asian tiger economies!

All african north country+sudan+nigeria+south africa+kenya+angola

Not all north African countries.Many are not even resourceful as you might think--I have gone through length and breadth of all North African countries which is going to get behind many African countries as the world sees to development in those countries of sub-saharan.Lybia,tunisia are exempted from being African Lion or African Tiger in the likeness of the Asian's in decade to come. We can look closely to the topic "Which countries will emerge as the "African Lion" Economies" and what's so exertive is "emerging" which Nigeria is well agnized.Despite delibrating issues it's still the emerging African lion to be followed by Egypt.As present SA is the African Lion.I heard most of the industries in Nigeria are already doing what SAs are doing--reaching out to other countries within the sub-region.

I KNOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LIONS BUT HOW ABOUT AFRICAN TIGER

Ghana 'will be an African tiger'
Ghana's President John Kufuor says the discovery of the country's first major oil deposit could turn the West African country into an "African tiger".
"Even without oil, we are doing so well... With oil as a shot in the arm, we're going to fly," he told the BBC.

"My joy is that I'll go down in history as the president under whose watch oil was found to turn the economy of Ghana around for the better," he said.

The discovery of 600m barrels of light oil offshore was announced on Monday.

Reserves in the Mahogany exploration well were far greater than the 250m barrels that UK-based firm Tullow Oil had earlier forecast.

Tullow, which saw its shares rise more than 12% on the news, jointly owns the West Cape block where the drilling took place with Anadarko Petroleum.

'Destiny'

Correspondents say champagne bottles were popping at Osu Castle, the seat of Ghana's government, after the announcement.

Mr Kufuor said the discovery would give a major boost to Ghana's economy.


We're going to really zoom, accelerate... and you'll see that Ghana truly is the African tiger
Ghana's President John Kufuor

"Oil is money, and we need money to do the schools, the roads, the hospitals. If you find oil, you manage it well, can you complain about that?" he told the BBC's Focus on Africa programme.

He dismissed suggestions that Ghana may follow in the footsteps of other countries that have mismanaged their oil wealth.

"Some are doing it well and I assure you if others failed, Ghana will succeed because this is our destiny to set the good pace for where we are. So we're going to use it well," he said.

"We're going to really zoom, accelerate, and if everything works, which I pray will happen positively, you come back in five years, and you'll see that Ghana truly is the African tiger, in economic terms for development."

His sentiments were echoed in many of Ghana's newspaper headlines on Tuesday.

The Statesman hailed the Gold Coast, Ghana's name under British rule, finding "black gold" and the Accra Daily Mail leads with the headline: "Thank God. Oil at last Thank God!"

The BBC's Will Ross in Ghana says the country is the midst of an energy crisis and every four days everybody has their electricity switched off for more 24 hours.

Ghana is described as somewhat of a success story in Africa but the country does suffer from widespread poverty and also has alarming levels of corruption, our correspondent says.

Tullow chief executive Aidan Heavey said the discovery was one of the biggest oil discoveries in Africa in recent times, but warned it could be up to seven years before the oil started to flow.

Tullow Oil holds a 22.9% stake in the West Cape Three Points licence and just under 50% in the Deepwater Tano licence.

The move comes as foreign firms are increasingly tapping into Africa for oil

Not all north African countries.Many are not even resourceful as you might think--I have gone through length and breadth of all North African countries which is going to get behind many African countries as the world sees to development in those countries of sub-saharan.Lybia,tunisia are exempted from being African Lion or African Tiger in the likeness of the Asian's in decade to come.

out of curiousity on which basis did you exclude those 2 countries?

Cool!what a good question.From the scheme of things these countries have had good contact with the developed nations for too long still in the stage of trying to emerge comparing it to those in the sub-saharan that are ranked among the fastest growing economies in Africa.Beside,my judgement was based upon my visit to those two countrie.They are less resourceful in terms of human resources compared to some sub-saharan emerging countries.It's almost seem like an hindrance for scanty population of lybians to implement industrial base economy---not only that they wait for others to do it for them.As for Tunis,it's well below the group of being emerging African lion cos there are many other sub-saharan African countries that seem to be more vibrant,like Nigeria,Kenyan,South Africa.Meanwhile,I personally don't have any problem with those two countries of North Africa.Am not an economist but industries are best situated in location of resources and cheap labour force before considering other factors though might be having overweighing effects. On the long run I personally or more generally don't think those two nations(of north Africa) among many others in the continent as an emerging African lion.Far from being it at this time.They might well fall into the group of tiger of Africa not comparing them to the Asians.

I noted it out that we ve got three species of words to use which are giant,lion and tiger.

lol @ people choosing Sudan over countries like Nigeria, heck while you're at it I'll just throw in Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Congo.

lol @ people choosing Sudan over countries like Nigeria, heck while you're at it I'll just throw in Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Congo.

the only troubled region in sudan is darfur which is far from other regions. it's like saying the niger delta issue effects all of nigeria....plus sudan has already accepted the U.N force which will be deployed real soon.

anyways if congo or liberia were growing at 13% with billions of dollar in FDI then i am sure they would be mentioned......:ohno: .

tread carefully on this thread guyz

Here is the Africa's ranking list according to HDI-2006.
http://hdr.undp.org/hdr2006/statistics/

63. Mauritius
64. Libyan Arab Jamahiriya
87. Tunisia
102. Algeria
106. Cape Verde
111. Egypt
120. Equatorial Guinea
121. South Africa
123. Morocco
124. Gabon
125. Namibia
127. São Tomé and Principe
131. Botswana
132. Comoros
136. Ghana
140. Congo
141. Sudan
143. Madagascar
144. Cameroon
145. Uganda
146. Swaziland
147. Togo
148. Djibouti
149. Lesotho
151. Zimbabwe
152. Kenya
153. Mauritania
155. Gambia
156. Senegal
157. Eritrea
158. Rwanda
159. Nigeria
160. Guinea
161. Angola
162. Tanzania, U. Rep. of
163. Benin
164. Côte d'Ivoire
165. Zambia
166. Malawi
167. DRC
168. Mozambique
169. Burundi
170. Ethiopia
171. Chad
172. Central African Republic
173. Guinea-Bissau
174. Burkina Faso
175. Mali
176. Sierra Leone
177. Niger

Not another one of these threads :ohno:

You people may laugh at me now, but I think that the DRC, if they EVER, EVER get their acts together, could be an African giant. The resources in that country are almost unrivaled in Africa.

Other than that...the typical countries

LOL... who are you all fooling? You chose Sudan with all the problems in Darfur and you left out Nigeria?

At this point, Sudan has for the most part managed to resolve the conflict, and the stability incurred by this is leading to a higher growth rate.

Sudan has a higher index of human development than Nigeria.

Sudan has a growth rate nearly 3 times that of Nigeria(as of 2006).

hence, yes, I included Sudan and left out Nigeria.

At this point, Sudan has for the most part managed to resolve the conflict, and the stability incurred by this is leading to a higher growth rate.

Sudan has a higher index of human development than Nigeria.

Sudan has a growth rate nearly 3 times that of Nigeria(as of 2006).

hence, yes, I included Sudan and left out Nigeria.

So Sudan's growth rate was 21% last year?

No way, Nigeria has the potential to become and African Lion!

Of course Nigeria does, but the question asked about who would be the first nations to make it.

Personally, I don´t think that Cameroon will make it (high level of corruption, disunity between anglophone and francophone part of Cameroon, who comes after Paul Biya is gone ????, high levels of internal and external indebtedness, decaying infrastructure etc.)

If I'm not mistaken...doesn't Nigeria have those same problems? I mean, Nigeria may lack the issue of indebtedness-they've done a decent job with that so far, but then they have other unique issues like the Niger Delta and the like. That, and Cameroon still has a higher living standard.

Are you sure that Cameroon isn't ahead right now, even slightly?

. When it comes to investmenst, everyone would eye Nigeria over Cameroon. (this is no attack against Cameroon)

Nigeria does have a much bigger market, but it isn't like it lacks its own problems as well.

So Sudan's growth rate was 21% last year?

I got my number from the world factboo, which said the growth rate was 5.3% for Nigeria in 2006.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ni.html

Sudan is at about 13% right now, which is nearly 15%, or 3 times as much. Of course, I should probably work on finding the 2007 growth rates for Nigeria...the Sudan number is from 07, but the Nigeria one is not.

Until then, take that statement with a grain of salt.

So Sudan's growth rate was 21% last year?

The 7% that you are referring to is the projected growth of Nigeria in 2007, no?

Sudan is growing faster than Nigeria any way you see it. That's not an insult. Sudan's economy is much smaller than Nigeria's so a higher percentage is more expected, right?

I got my number from the world factboo, which said the growth rate was 5.3% for Nigeria in 2006.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ni.html

Sudan is at about 13% right now, which is nearly 15%, or 3 times as much. Of course, I should probably work on finding the 2007 growth rates for Nigeria...the Sudan number is from 07, but the Nigeria one is not.

Until then, take that statement with a grain of salt.

You have to take proportions into consideration when you’re gauging economic growth.

So even if the figures were correct, it still doesn’t reflect that which you’re trying to portray, due to numerous factors.

The 7% that you are referring to is the projected growth of Nigeria in 2007, no?

Sudan is growing faster than Nigeria any way you see it. That's not an insult. Sudan's economy is much smaller than Nigeria's so a higher percentage is more expected, right?

I agree wholeheartedly!

You have to take proportions into consideration when you’re gauging economic growth.

So even if the figures were correct, it still doesn’t reflect that which you’re trying to portray, due to numerous factors.

Like I said, take the statement with a grain of salt.

BTW, what are the factors, specifically?

Like I said, take the statement with a grain of salt.

BTW, what are the factors, specifically?

Population; Density, GDP.

At this point, Sudan has for the most part managed to resolve the conflict, and the stability incurred by this is leading to a higher growth rate.



PEOPLE ARE STILL DYING IN DARFUR!! THEY HAVE NOT RESOLVED ANYTHING!! If you listened to any news, the militants have called a cease fire in Niger Delta and released 12 hostages so far. And no one if any dies due to Niger-Delta in Nigeria. Get out of here with that nonsense!!

Again only 2 countries in Africa, Nigeria and Egypt were predicted to beat Italy in GDP by 2015 by Goldman Sach's

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf


Sudan has a higher index of human development than Nigeria.

HDI Predicted how many Asian Tigers? Did HDI predict CHINA jumping to the front of the Pack and Jumping infront of the whole world in growth?

Again only 2 countries in Africa, Nigeria and Egypt were predicted to beat Italy in GDP by 2015 by Goldman Sach's

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf

Sudan has a growth rate nearly 3 times that of Nigeria(as of 2006).

You are no specialist in or student of Economics. Have you heard of Post-War/Crisis reconstruction?

Again only 2 countries in Africa, Nigeria and Egypt were predicted to beat Italy in GDP by 2015 by Goldman Sach's

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf


hence, yes, I included Sudan and left out Nigeria.

And you are a Nonentity.

Again only 2 countries in Africa, Nigeria and Egypt were predicted to beat Italy in GDP by 2015 by Goldman Sach's

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf

You didn't have to link or mention it four times, once would have be sufficient to your point.

You didn't have to link or mention it four times, once would have be sufficient to your point.

:lol: :lol:

Population; Density, GDP.

Good points on the first one...I don't see your point on the 3rd one. Isn't GDP somewhat of a measure of the productivity of a nation overall? Can you explain that further?

PEOPLE ARE STILL DYING IN DARFUR!! THEY HAVE NOT RESOLVED ANYTHING!! If you listened to any news, the militants have called a cease fire in Niger Delta and released 12 hostages so far. And no one if any dies due to Niger-Delta in Nigeria. Get out of here with that nonsense!!

You are trying to make Nigeria seem, somehow, so much more stable than Sudan.

I don't see that being the case.

Again only 2 countries in Africa, Nigeria and Egypt were predicted to beat Italy in GDP by 2015 by Goldman Sach's

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf

I don't think your article said 2015, mate.

Appendix 4 on your pdf shows the predictions for future GDP. Nigeria is not projected to outdo italy by that date at all. On page 8 of the document, th graph indicates that Nigeria will not surpass Italy in 2025, much less 2015. Neither will Egypt.

Nigeria will manage to become a larger economy by 2050, which only makes sense since it is projected to have 356,523,597 at that point, around 7 times what italy will possess according to projections.

Naturally, it will be the larger economy by then. But for Nigeria to somehow surpass Italy in GDP by 2015, it would somehow need to go from a GDP of just about $200 billion now, up to about $2 trillion(which is what italy has).

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/it.html

Pardon me for sounding a tad skeptical. Your surce says Nigeria will have a higher GDP by 2050, not 2015.

HDI Predicted how many Asian Tigers? Did HDI predict CHINA jumping to the front of the Pack and Jumping infront of the whole world in growth?

Just about, yes. They lifted 400 million people out of poverty in just around 2 and a half decades.
Has Nigeria done such a thing yet?

Here, let me give you an example:

India

Human development index, 1975 0.413
Human development index, 1980 0.439
Human development index, 1985 0.477
Human development index, 1990 0.515
Human development index, 1995 0.548
Human development index, 2000 0.577
Human development index, 2004 0.611

China

Human development index, 1975 0.527
Human development index, 1980 0.560
Human development index, 1985 0.596
Human development index, 1990 0.628
Human development index, 1995 0.685
Human development index, 2000 0.730
Human development index, 2004 0.768

South Korea:

Human development index, 1975 0.712
Human development index, 1980 0.746
Human development index, 1985 0.785
Human development index, 1990 0.823
Human development index, 1995 0.860
Human development index, 2000 0.890
Human development index, 2004 0.912


Those are all some really big jumps in HDI. Note how 3 of the largest Asian tigers all show massive increases in human development, which is what specifically fuels continued economic growth.

Nigeria:

Human development index, 1975 0.317
Human development index, 1980 0.376
Human development index, 1985 0.387
Human development index, 1990 0.407
Human development index, 1995 0.419
Human development index, 2000 0.433
Human development index, 2004 0.448

Granted, nigeria is improving, and it should be given credit for that. But the fact is that it is not improving at the rate seen by those "asian tigers". If Nigeria wants to be an African lion, then it would have to work on that. I don't see it happening there before other countries in Africa manage to do it.

You are no specialist in or student of Economics. Have you heard of Post-War/Crisis reconstruction?

Of course not, I'm only barely 16. I'm simply going by what I can so far, and I think my conclusions are perfectly valid.
In any case, you make a good point.

And you are a Nonentity.

Um, ok.:)

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf

Is that link all you have to go on?

Nigeria's GDP will not hit $2 trillion by 2015, man. hence, it will not surpass Italy by that date. it will only do so in 2050. Accept it already.:ohno:

I'm getting this feeling of Deja Vu. Seems like all this has happened before.

I'll put it down to this.

I Project that the economy of Nigeria will grow at 15% in 2010 and 20% in 2015. The Niger Delta Crisis seems to be nearing Resolution, and Nigeria's Non Oil Sector is now makes up a bigger percentage of The GDP of Nigeria. Hence I think that Nigeria, Egypt and Sudan will become the Investment Hub of Africa. Nigeria has the fastest Return of investment in Africa, 2nd Fastest Investment Rate. With Political Stability, alleviation of Poverty, Capitalization of the Non Oil Sector, Nigeria will surely be places.

P.S The Low HDI of Nigeria is to do largely with the Population growth rate surpassing that of the GDP Growth rate. However Nigeria's economy has grown consistently and steadily in the last 4 or 5 years, so the HDI will probably improve.

2nd P.S Nigeria is safer than most people Speculate. There is a bigger chance of being struck by lightning than Dying in the Niger Delta. In fact The Niger Delta is safer than Lagos.

My 2 cents on Angola.
Angola will probably become a Regional Hub and the Shoulder of South West Africa. The economy will continue to grow, but the economy might eventually decline due to a lack of expertise, particularly in the Tertiary sector.

PEOPLE ARE STILL DYING IN DARFUR!! THEY HAVE NOT RESOLVED ANYTHING!! If you listened to any news, the militants have called a cease fire in Niger Delta and released 12 hostages so far. And no one if any dies due to Niger-Delta in Nigeria. Get out of here with that nonsense!!

Again only 2 countries in Africa, Nigeria and Egypt were predicted to beat Italy in GDP by 2015 by Goldman Sach's

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf




HDI Predicted how many Asian Tigers? Did HDI predict CHINA jumping to the front of the Pack and Jumping infront of the whole world in growth?

Again only 2 countries in Africa, Nigeria and Egypt were predicted to beat Italy in GDP by 2015 by Goldman Sach's

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf



You are no specialist in or student of Economics. Have you heard of Post-War/Crisis reconstruction?

Again only 2 countries in Africa, Nigeria and Egypt were predicted to beat Italy in GDP by 2015 by Goldman Sach's

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf



And you are a Nonentity.

Again only 2 countries in Africa, Nigeria and Egypt were predicted to beat Italy in GDP by 2015 by Goldman Sach's

http://www2.goldmansachs.com/hkchina/insight/research/pdf/BRICs_3_12-1-05.pdf

man ur trying a little 2 hard....:lol:

Nigeria will not surpass italy in 2015...i don't know where did you get that from bcz the article you keep on posting doesn't say so.

sudan which have 100 million people less than nigeria is attracting almost the same amount of FDI...just from asian countries as most western companies are touchy about darfur.....however the U.N peace keeping force will be deployed to darfur this month and peace talks are underway....western companies are ready to jump in...Total is already in their way to sudan.

sudan growth rate has been above 6 percent for the last 10 years.

No matter how much nigeria grow it's GDP per capita will not get that much boost bcz it's population is very big and it's starting at a low GDP.

i wish the best for nigeria but don't let your dreams fool you....sudan will get their before nigeria if groth rates continue at the same level for both countries.

IF ANY COUNTRY BECOMES AN AFRICAN TIGER. WE SHOULD ALL BE HAPPY FOR THAT COUNTRY.:) WHATEVER IS GOOD FOR DRC, LIBERIA, ETC, IS GOOD FOR ALL AFRICA AND WHATEVER IS BAD FOR SOUTH AFRICA,NIGERIA, ALGERIA, EGYPT, ETC IS BAD FOR THE WHOLE OF AFRICA.
I HOPE YOU GUYS WILL STOP ARGUING AND START POSTING DEVELOPMENTS IN RESPECTIVE REGIONS. I'VE NOTICED WHENEVER A TOPIC COMES UP EVERYBODY STOP POSTING DEVELOPMENTS AND SPEND TIME ARGUING ABOUT THINGS WE DONE HAVE CONTROL OVER.:)

You are trying to make Nigeria seem, somehow, so much more stable than Sudan.

I don't see that being the case.


Not SEEM. It IS. No offense to Sudanese. But you have lost all forms of credibility and lack of bias by even comparing Nigeria to the case of Darfur. Last I heard, the world is screaming about Darfur not Nigeria. Nigerian president has managed to make the militants come to the table in his first days in office. I can only see Nigeria shooting for the stars from there.

I don't think your article said 2015, mate.

2050. But it must shock you that Nigeria was mentioned. Nigeria of all places right? Why not Liberia, Rwanda and Burundi right?

Appendix 4 on your pdf shows the predictions for future GDP. Nigeria is not projected to outdo italy by that date at all. On page 8 of the document, th graph indicates that Nigeria will not surpass Italy in 2025, much less 2015. Neither will Egypt.


Yeah, it's 2050. And that was even based on conservative estimates from 2001 before the reform programs in Nigeria were fully entrenched.

2050.
Nigeria will manage to become a larger economy by 2050, which only makes sense since it is projected to have 356,523,597 at that point, around 7 times what italy will possess according to projections.

Don't try to rationalize on good news. I thought you love to see good things coming out of Africa. Damn..does it hurt you this badly?

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/it.html

Why am I not fazed? Because you CIA files does not talk of the growth policies and strategies of Nigeria. The Goldman Sach's report does. :banana:


Pardon me for sounding a tad skeptical. Your surce says Nigeria will have a higher GDP by 2050, not 2015.

Sure. But it also places Nigeria as the foremost in Africa doesn't it? You read the article!


Just about, yes. They lifted 400 million people out of poverty in just around 2 and a half decades.
Has Nigeria done such a thing yet?

Dude, this is 2007. We just emerged from bad governments that mortgaged our Nation. I will say we are where India was in the 1980s. Nigeria IS the future!

Here, let me give you an example:

India


Human development index, 1980 0.439


Nigeria:

....
Human development index, 2004 0.448

LOL...Your argument lacks any credibility. The slow growth was largely due to living under military rule where the elite sent Nigerian funds to Western nations. We are only beginning to aggresively pursue policies that saw the massive growth of HDI in India. It even reinforces my point that we are right now where India was in the 80s. The sky is now the limit.

We will now be pursuing in this new Administration:
(1) Aggressive Land policies, with land as loan collateral to help entrepreneurs
(2) Zero interest micro-loans for small businesses
(3) Aggressive resolution to power crisis
(4) Aggressive build up of our Education sector to churn out top quality candidates
(5) Pursuit of satellite technology and even a buy out of the African regional satellite commission.

I don't see it happening there before other countries in Africa manage to do it.


Yep, Nigeria MUST come last with no explanation whatsoever.


Of course not, I'm only barely 16. I'm simply going by what I can so far, and I think my conclusions are perfectly valid.
In any case, you make a good point.

LOL...could you loose any more credibility?



Um, ok.:)



Is that link all you have to go on?

Nigeria's GDP will not hit $2 trillion by 2015, man. hence, it will not surpass Italy by that date. it will only do so in 2050. Accept it already.:ohno:

Why should I. We have a new government with even more exciting policies and who is bent on improving quality of life to ensure the support of all Nigerians. I say, you watch the space called Nigeria in 4 years time.

It's steaming in here.

I'm handing the Microphone over to Ahmed

Not SEEM. It IS. No offense to Sudanese. But you have lost all forms of credibility and lack of bias by even comparing Nigeria to the case of Darfur. Last I heard, the world is screaming about Darfur not Nigeria. Nigerian president has managed to make the militants come to the table in his first days in office. I can only see Nigeria shooting for the stars from there.

Ok, I hope so to, then.

2050. But it must shock you that Nigeria was mentioned. Nigeria of all places right? Why not Liberia, Rwanda and Burundi right?

Um...no, it doesn't? Nigeria is one of the most populous African countries, so naturally they would be mentioned over any place like Rwanda or urundi, and definitely over Liberia.

I think now you're just getting personal with this.

Yeah, it's 2050. And that was even based on conservative estimates from 2001 before the reform programs in Nigeria were fully entrenched.

So, why did you say 2015?

Don't try to rationalize on good news. I thought you love to see good things coming out of Africa. Damn..does it hurt you this badly?

I don't understand you.

Why am I not fazed? Because you CIA files does not talk of the growth policies and strategies of Nigeria. The Goldman Sach's report does. :banana:

Uh, the CIA data is a measure of how the country is doing right now economically. It might not be the best idea to completely ignore it...

Sure. But it also places Nigeria as the foremost in Africa doesn't it? You read the article!

I guess, in terms of GDP.

Dude, this is 2007. We just emerged from bad governments that mortgaged our Nation. I will say we are where India was in the 1980s. Nigeria IS the future!

Yeah, but that is the point. Nigeria has to recover from all of that. There are other nations in Africa who are, as a result, ahead a little when it comes to their chances of becoming African lions. That's why I don't think nigeria will be first. Give it 2 decades, maybe, but even then they have to curb population growth as well and find a way to provide a higher standard of living for the people. That is going to take more time, I think.

LOL...Your argument lacks any credibility. The slow growth was largely due to living under military rule where the elite sent Nigerian funds to Western nations. We are only beginning to aggresively pursue policies that saw the massive growth of HDI in India. It even reinforces my point that we are right now where India was in the 80s. The sky is now the limit.

Ok, and I don't think i denied that. The reason I didn't include Nigeria was because of those past troubles that I believe will limit them from being among the FIRST nations to become African lions-Other nations already have a head start.

We will now be pursuing in this new Administration:
(1) Aggressive Land policies, with land as loan collateral to help entrepreneurs
(2) Zero interest micro-loans for small businesses
(3) Aggressive resolution to power crisis
(4) Aggressive build up of our Education sector to churn out top quality candidates
(5) Pursuit of satellite technology and even a buy out of the African regional satellite commission.

Ok, good, I'm not denying that.

Yep, Nigeria MUST come last with no explanation whatsoever.

Dude, c'mon-you yourself stated that Nigeria is having issues right now because of the past governments. You also said that Nigeria is where India was in the 80's. That means that there are going to be some African nations who are going to be ahead of it, and who might become lions earlier.

I'm not trying to slander Nigeria, I'm just stating my observations. I don't think they are invalid.

LOL...could you loose any more credibility?

Because I don't agree with you, i don't have any credibility?

Why should I. We have a new government with even more exciting policies and who is bent on improving quality of life to ensure the support of all Nigerians. I say, you watch the space called Nigeria in 4 years time.

Ok, fine.

I'll put it down to this.

I Project that the economy of Nigeria will grow at 15% in 2010 and 20% in 2015. The Niger Delta Crisis seems to be nearing Resolution, and Nigeria's Non Oil Sector is now makes up a bigger percentage of The GDP of Nigeria. Hence I think that Nigeria, Egypt and Sudan will become the Investment Hub of Africa. Nigeria has the fastest Return of investment in Africa, 2nd Fastest Investment Rate. With Political Stability, alleviation of Poverty, Capitalization of the Non Oil Sector, Nigeria will surely be places.

P.S The Low HDI of Nigeria is to do largely with the Population growth rate surpassing that of the GDP Growth rate. However Nigeria's economy has grown consistently and steadily in the last 4 or 5 years, so the HDI will probably improve.

2nd P.S Nigeria is safer than most people Speculate. There is a bigger chance of being struck by lightning than Dying in the Niger Delta. In fact The Niger Delta is safer than Lagos.

My 2 cents on Angola.
Angola will probably become a Regional Hub and the Shoulder of South West Africa. The economy will continue to grow, but the economy might eventually decline due to a lack of expertise, particularly in the Tertiary sector.

I can largely subscribe to what you said!

Only two remarks:

Where did you hear from that Nigeria´s non-oil sector makes up a bigger percentage of its GDP? That´s new to me! Unfortunately, Naija is still heavily depenedent on oil and gas! As far as an increase in non-oil production is concerned, yes, you are right, this has occured but its percentage on the GDP scale is still marginal

Angola: I don´t think that the economy will decline due to lack of expertise, I talked to a few guys on SSC and from what I read, no Angola is something like a "gold rush" country and more and more people are beginning to set foot in the tertiary sector. You get a lot of well educated Angolan people abroad, you have got the tons of expats for the time being ( some of whom might eventually make up their mind to create their own business in Angola, in Africa many people came first as experts but decided to stay) and do not forget the growing number of so-called "retornandos", people that all bring their knowledge to Angola. So a declining economy which means minus growth won´t happen in Angola, the economy will most likely slow but not for the time being! (for the next five years)
__________________

Like I said, take the statement with a grain of salt.

BTW, what are the factors, specifically?
you should also take population into consideration,Nigeria having 17 millions of her citizens in diaspora is such a giant and strong as another country,remitting billions of dollars back into their Nigeria.

you should also take population into consideration,Nigeria having 17 millions of her citizens in diaspora is such a giant and strong as another country,remitting billions of dollars back into their Nigeria.

an important factor, indeed!

umm.. Nigeria, South Africa, Cameron, Angola, Egypt, Algeria :)

What’s the point in sitting here and having a debate about the economic projections of African nations, notably Nigeria, when some people are comparing the incident in the Niger Delta to the situation in Durfar. Objectivity is lacking, this is more like an attack on Nigeria and Nigerians.

Oh…and, the oil sector makes up 40% of Nigeria’s GDP and 90% of its foreign exchange earnings.

WOW this again... ok listen let just to put this to rest ok instead of arguing about which conutry is going to be developed first ya'll are missing the point everyone of the debators. Can't u see that every country in africa is changing wether it be nigeria, sudan whatever africa is reaching the stage where not jsut one, two but nearly 10-18 countries are having magnificent economic progress. so why the argument about who will be developed first.. it's pointless. No doubt this kind of threads have shown the competitive spirit in Africans but we are competing against each other for the wrong reasons and dats why africa turned into an eyesore....


If u ask me if i were to walk into this thread only one word would come to my mind CHAOS, and just like the continent we argue over small things and forget about other important things like development blabla...

just a heasd up

South Africa, Nigeria, Angola, Botswana, Mozambique and Senegal.

Deleted some off-topic posts. :)
If the thread dosen't stay on topic it'll have to close.

My picks would be SA, Egypt, Nigeria, Morroco, Algeria, Kenya and Angola. I think Libya and Tunisia will slowly slip down the list. I would have added Sudan up there but am still not sure whether it will be a country after 2011...

^^ I looked at Kenya's GDP trend and noticed a very significant rise of GDP since 2003.

0.6% (real -1.6%) in 2002 to 3% in 2003, 4.9% in 2004, 5.8% in 2005 and 6% in 2006. GDP growth of 7% in is projected for 2007

2002- 0.6%
2003- 3%
2004- 4.9%
2005- 5.8%
2006- 6.0%
2007- 6.3%
2008- ?

Well, with the global financial economic crisis, I think growth will slow a bit there in 2009, like most places in Africa and worldwide.

This article says that growth in Kenya is forecast to be only 3-3.5% in 2009, but it's reasoning is from a questionable source (AIG).
Link: http://www.afriquejet.com/news/africa-news/kenya:-aig-downgrades-kenya%27s-economic-growth-projection-2009011519560.html

I don't believe that Libya will cease to be an "African Lion", that country has massive potential to continue to be one of the richest countries in Africa. Largely untapped Oil market to Americans, small population. It will have one of the highest income per capita in Africa for a long time.

Well, with the global financial economic crisis, I think growth will slow a bit there in 2009, like most places in Africa and worldwide.

This article says that growth in Kenya is forecast to be only 3-3.5% in 2009, but it's reasoning is from a questionable source (AIG).
Link: http://www.afriquejet.com/news/africa-news/kenya:-aig-downgrades-kenya%27s-economic-growth-projection-2009011519560.html

I don't believe that Libya will cease to be an "African Lion", that country has massive potential to continue to be one of the richest countries in Africa. Largely untapped Oil market to Americans, small population. It will have one of the highest income per capita in Africa for a long time.

Doesn't Libya already have Africa's highest GDP per capita? I know for sure that it has Africa's highest HDI. Either way I agree that in the future it will definitely be Africa's wealthiest nation, but their really isn't anything outside of oil. Another problem with Libya it's pretty much all government owned, theirs little innovation in the private sector. In terms of economic freedom it's up there with Cuba.

Yeah, I meant that they'd stay on top.

The fact that they are socialized, yet on top of most of Africa still is a good thing and shows how much potential it has. Imagine what can be done there if the leader there wasn't such an joke. I think that their per capita income would have been above $25,000 and the HDI would be above 0.900 by now if it were not for it's leadership and relative isolation for so long. It may be dependent on oil, but I'm sure that there's more natural resources in that large area that it occupies.

Yeah, I meant that they'd stay on top.

The fact that they are socialized, yet on top of most of Africa still is a good thing and shows how much potential it has. Imagine what can be done there if the leader there wasn't such an joke. I think that their per capita income would have been above $25,000 and the HDI would be above 0.900 by now if it were not for it's leadership and relative isolation for so long. It may be dependent on oil, but I'm sure that there's more natural resources in that large area that it occupies.

No doubt, heck even though they have Africa's highest HDI, it's still inferior to Mexico for example. They've slowly opened up a tourist industry but their not following the Egyptian, Tunisian or Moroccan example of allowing masses of people to come in. Instead appealing to the very wealthy demographic. Which is a shame considering the large amounts of Greek and Roman ruins.

Well, with the global financial economic crisis, I think growth will slow a bit there in 2009, like most places in Africa and worldwide.

This article says that growth in Kenya is forecast to be only 3-3.5% in 2009, but it's reasoning is from a questionable source (AIG).
Link: http://www.afriquejet.com/news/africa-news/kenya:-aig-downgrades-kenya%27s-economic-growth-projection-2009011519560.html
^^
Factoring in the recent problems and the global financial crisis, Kenya's growth will definitely be reduced, but the fundamentals are there for a quick recovery.

I can largely subscribe to what you said!

Only two remarks:

Where did you hear from that Nigeria´s non-oil sector makes up a bigger percentage of its GDP? That´s new to me! Unfortunately, Naija is still heavily depenedent on oil and gas! As far as an increase in non-oil production is concerned, yes, you are right, this has occured but its percentage on the GDP scale is still marginal

Angola: I don´t think that the economy will decline due to lack of expertise, I talked to a few guys on SSC and from what I read, no Angola is something like a "gold rush" country and more and more people are beginning to set foot in the tertiary sector. You get a lot of well educated Angolan people abroad, you have got the tons of expats for the time being ( some of whom might eventually make up their mind to create their own business in Angola, in Africa many people came first as experts but decided to stay) and do not forget the growing number of so-called "retornandos", people that all bring their knowledge to Angola. So a declining economy which means minus growth won´t happen in Angola, the economy will most likely slow but not for the time being! (for the next five years)
__________________Sorry that I don't usually like to make comments in this section for some reasons. But, if you take a closer look at what he meant by the word "the largest GDP is now coming from non-oil sector " you will find out that it might likely be true. The oil sector,though, is the largest single foreign income earner for the country still, not the largest gross domestic product of the entire nation in absolute comparison - the oil sector should employ less than the banking sector,minning, Agriculture, manufacturing,construction industry,telecommunication, etc combine together and the total expenditure in these sectors is surpassing that of oil at the moment. The diversity is what I think he's pin-pointing out for us here, Mathias, not actually the single largest national income revenue generator.

Naijalove, thanx for the link!:)

Africa´s Potential Lion Economies in the next decade

Nigeria(condition: reof Niger Delta Crisis , $30bn invested into physical infrastructure in the next three years but normally this should be no problem for Nigeria, if those conditions are met , the coming two yyears will be very crucial for Nigeria if all the major conditions are met - infrastructure, "controlled" corruption and stability - the sky is the limit:cheers: )

South Africa (it already is an emerging market)

Egypt

Algeria

Angola (the GDP of that country has spiralled upwards tremedously in the past years, it will continue to sky-rocket in the years to come)

Sudan

Morroco

Kenya

Ghana

Senegal


Africa´s potential lion baby economies

Tunisia

Botswana

Namibia

Gabon

Mauritius

Cape Verde (for tourism, financial offf-shore centre, real estate projects)

Sao Tomé (loads of oil)

Mozambique


Why do you put Botswana and Gabon in a lower category than Senegal and Ghana? Even when Botswana and Gabon's populations are small compared to the other two countries, its GDP (PPP) are at the same level:

95 Ghana 31,331 $M
105 Botswana 25,676 $M
110 Senegal 20,601 $M
112 Gabon 20,178 $M

Source: IMF 2007.

We could even claim that Botswana and Gabon are in an upper category as regional powers in Africa (compared to Ghana and Senegal) since their GDP per capita is much higher:

Botswana 17 947 $
Gabon 14 094 $

:cheers:

Sudan? lol
Ghana? lol
... lol

No doubt, heck even though they have Africa's highest HDI, it's still inferior to Mexico for example. They've slowly opened up a tourist industry but their not following the Egyptian, Tunisian or Moroccan example of allowing masses of people to come in. Instead appealing to the very wealthy demographic. Which is a shame considering the large amounts of Greek and Roman ruins.

Kadhaffi is a big idiot. Libya has so much Roman, Greece and Berber monuments, they have Roman cities but no tourists because there is no accomodation and tourists still need visa.

Libya can become richer then UAE they have so much oil, gaz, fish, tourisme etc but they have a bad leader.

No doubt, heck even though they have Africa's highest HDI, it's still inferior to Mexico for example. They've slowly opened up a tourist industry but their not following the Egyptian, Tunisian or Moroccan example of allowing masses of people to come in. Instead appealing to the very wealthy demographic. Which is a shame considering the large amounts of Greek and Roman ruins.


Tourists still need visa to go to Libya and their are not much hotels, resorts etc in Libya and the infrastructure is very bad.

For example Libya has no railroad, the ports are old and in bad shape that is why a lot of sheeps go to Tunisia ports and then export the products to Libya..

Which countries will emerge as the "African Lion" Economies



1.South Africa
2.Egypt
3.Morocco
4.Tunisa

a oil countrie can not be the "African Lion"

libya, u know i always wonder why the hell that country is so run down yet they have money. i think if kenya or sengal or ghana or namibia or zambia had the kind of money libya has, those countries would be far better than where they are.

^^ I personally doubt that.

a oil countrie can not be the "African Lion"

Why not? Nigeria, Algeria and Angola are oil countries and are among the largest in Africa.

I know alot of Egyptians and South Asians who work in Libya, lured by high salary.

There are too many contradctions about Libya, if you check various sites you will find some stating tht Libya is rich in oil but infrastructure-wise its very poor, with high level of poverty among local Libyans; while many others state that Libyans enjoy high standard of living and foreign visitors will be "extremely suprised" with the luxury life enjoyed by most Libyans.

:dunno:

Why not? Nigeria, Algeria and Angola are oil countries and are among the largest in Africa.

because their economies are dependent on oil or Gaz

They can not resist to the global crisis

I would agree with that ^^

Not because I hate those oil countries (I have spent quite abit of time in Nigeria) but I think that an "African Lion" economy suggests tat like the Asion Tiger economies, a multi-faceted, diversified economy that because of stable management and governmen is able to raise the standard of living for the majority of people.

Bless Nigeria for all the advacement and progres it has made and is making, it's a beautiful country close to my heart, but as it sits right now, the oil money is building lots of new pretty buildings but is having a rough time raising the standard of living for its 100 plus million people. What a huge job! I genuinely wish the best.

Excluding South Africa (in a different league economically) and oil countries....

1) Botswana
2) Namibia
3) Senegal
4) Ghana
5) Kenya

Not because I hate those oil countries (I have spent quite abit of time in Nigeria) but I think that an "African Lion" economy suggests tat like the Asion Tiger economies, a multi-faceted, diversified economy that because of stable management and governmen is able to raise the standard of living for the majority of people.


Then there are very few "African Lion" countries in Africa...

because their economies are dependent on oil or Gaz

They can not resist to the global crisis

Most African countries are dependent on one thing...so what is the difference?

FTSE classification, as of September 2008 emerging markets list:


Advanced Emerging: Brazil, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, South Africa, Taiwan


Secondary Emerging: Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, Czech Republic, Egypt, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Morocco, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Russia, Thailand, Turkey.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerging_market

1.South Africa
2.Egypt
3.Morocco
4.Nigeria


Nigeria is on my list because the non-oil sectors are growing fast like banking, telecom, agriculture, mining etc. They are not focussing only on oil anymore..

From the last World Economic Forum 2008, the emerging market nations that were of interest from Africa were Egypt and Nigeria (If we are to leave out South African which has already emerged). The basic things they used to measure these economies were mainly growth, returns, progress in trade volume and prices, foreign returns, stable government and infrastructure(which were the major hurdles for Nigeria to fair behind the others as an emerging economy),etc factors.If we are going to go by emerging economy factors my list would look like this:

1. Nigeria (Largely due to the regional market strategy and consumer population)
2. Egypt

These other nations can follow in this order:

3. Morocco
4. Algeria(If only it diversified its economy)
5. Angola
6. Kenya

From the last World Economic Forum 2008, the emerging market nations that were of interest from Africa were Egypt and Nigeria (If we are to leave out South African which has already emerged). The basic things they used to measure these economies were mainly growth, returns, progress in trade volume and prices, foreign returns, stable government and infrastructure(which were the major hurdles for Nigeria to fair behind the others as an emerging economy),etc factors.If we are going to go by emerging economy factors my list would look like this:

1. Nigeria (Largely due to the regional market strategy and consumer population)
2. Egypt

I do not think that Nigeria is a country emerging

1.Nigeria is not a stable country

2. 2/3 of the population live below the poverty line

3.with 140 inhabitants Nigeria has important 20,000 vehicles per year Morocco and Algeria with 60 million inhabitants import 25 times more

we can not imagine this country without oil

From the last World Economic Forum 2008, the emerging market nations that were of interest from Africa were Egypt and Nigeria (If we are to leave out South African which has already emerged). The basic things they used to measure these economies were mainly growth, returns, progress in trade volume and prices, foreign returns, stable government and infrastructure(which were the major hurdles for Nigeria to fair behind the others as an emerging economy),etc factors.If we are going to go by emerging economy factors my list would look like this:

1. Nigeria (Largely due to the regional market strategy and consumer population)
2. Egypt

These other nations can follow in this order:

3. Morocco
4. Algeria(If only it diversified its economy)
5. Angola
6. Kenya

Well to be perfectly fair, Nigeria is just as dependent (if not more) on oil than Algeria. Oil accounts for 40% of Nigeria's GDP compared to Algeria's 30%. However it is true that proportionally Algeria's export earnings are more oil derived than Nigeria.

I do not think that Nigeria is a country emerging

1.Nigeria is not a stable country

2. 2/3 of the population live below the poverty line

3.with 140 inhabitants Nigeria has important 20,000 vehicles per year Morocco and Algeria with 60 million inhabitants import 25 times more

we can not imagine this country without oil

yes we can. nigeria without oil was better and would be better. anyway, nigeria has such a large population that it does not expot as much because it consumes a lot, so it can be deceptive

where did you get your stats that 20,000 cars are exporter into nigeria yearly and 500,000 are imported into algeria and morocco

I do not think that Nigeria is a country emerging

1.Nigeria is not a stable country

2. 2/3 of the population live below the poverty line

3.with 140 inhabitants Nigeria has important 20,000 vehicles per year Morocco and Algeria with 60 million inhabitants import 25 times more

we can not imagine this country without oil



Brasil, India etc have also very high poverty but still they are seen as emerging countries. High poverty is not an issue if a country is seen as an emerging market or not.


Nigeria is seen as a emerging market because all their non-oil sectors like banking, telecom, mining, stock exchange, etc are booming.
They are investing a lot to divers their economy.

Well to be perfectly fair, Nigeria is just as dependent (if not more) on oil than Algeria. Oil accounts for 40% of Nigeria's GDP compared to Algeria's 30%. However it is true that proportionally Algeria's export earnings are more oil derived than Nigeria.

Alex, the banking sector in Nigeria is far more ahead that those in Algeria and the Nigeria banks are booming. They buy a lot of banks in Africa and invest in other banks.
Also the telecom, stock exchange of Nigeria are booming. And also the mining, agriculture etc..
Nigeria has a very open economy and their FDI is growing..
Algeria has the potential to become a emerging market, but the need to open their economy, modernise their banks, stock exchange and other companies..










Nigeria: banks at the top

Date: 16.10.2008 The largest financial institutions in West-Afrika are in Nigeria. In the top 20-list 19 banks were Nigerian banks . These banks have made considerable more profit, with as head Intercontinental Bank' and ' First bank or Nigeria'. The position of banks are development and rising, companies in Nigeria improve more then ever. There is now a sufficient capital for investments of companies in Nigeria.

The financial service is the top of the Nigerian macro-economy at this moment. The increase was used by the government that wants to make Nigeria the financial `hub' of Africa, the current increase can be now attributed entirely to private companies. The market atracttes a lot of investors. With a population of 140 millions and a strongly rising middle class is the financial sector becoming enormous.


Source: Dutch ministery of economic business


http://www.evd.nl/zoeken/showbouwsteen.asp?bstnum=217864

Nigeria isn't an emerging market yet...but it will be one soon. Though its banks may be large, compare them to South Africa's banks for example and they don't look so large. So whilst they may be big, they aren't big enough yet. The keyword being yet.

Nigeria isn't an emerging market yet...but it will be one soon. Though its banks may be large, compare them to South Africa's banks for example and they don't look so large. So whilst they may be big, they aren't big enough yet. The keyword being yet.

compare them to SA banks and other than 2 or 3 SA banks, nigerian banks are larger

compare them to SA banks and other than 2 or 3 SA banks, nigerian banks are larger

Eh, no...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5327/is_/ai_n30888391

Please go take your fail attempts at trolling somewhere else.

Alex, the banking sector in Nigeria is far more ahead that those in Algeria and the Nigeria banks are booming. They buy a lot of banks in Africa and invest in other banks.
Also the telecom, stock exchange of Nigeria are booming. And also the mining, agriculture etc..
Nigeria has a very open economy and their FDI is growing..
Algeria has the potential to become a emerging market, but the need to open their economy, modernise their banks, stock exchange and other companies..










Nigeria: banks at the top

Date: 16.10.2008 The largest financial institutions in West-Afrika are in Nigeria. In the top 20-list 19 banks were Nigerian banks . These banks have made considerable more profit, with as head Intercontinental Bank' and ' First bank or Nigeria'. The position of banks are development and rising, companies in Nigeria improve more then ever. There is now a sufficient capital for investments of companies in Nigeria.

The financial service is the top of the Nigerian macro-economy at this moment. The increase was used by the government that wants to make Nigeria the financial `hub' of Africa, the current increase can be now attributed entirely to private companies. The market atracttes a lot of investors. With a population of 140 millions and a strongly rising middle class is the financial sector becoming enormous.


Source: Dutch ministery of economic business


http://www.evd.nl/zoeken/showbouwsteen.asp?bstnum=217864

wow, I didnt know this.
Wasnt the African Development Bank (which lends money to African governments for development projects) originally a Nigerian Trust or partially Nigerian or something like that?

thanks for that info.

Eh, no...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa5327/is_/ai_n30888391

Please go take your fail attempts at trolling somewhere else.

comparing to SA banks, nigerian banks are still very large. and ABSA is not considered a SA bank since it got bough out by barclays. so ok, maybe 4 SA banks are larger, big deal. they are growing much slower and looking to invest in nigerian banks to help their growth. the industry in SA is top heavy. i counted maybe 7 banks, 4 near the top. nigeria had triple that amount.

comparing to SA banks, nigerian banks are still very large. and ABSA is not considered a SA bank since it got bough out by barclays. so ok, maybe 4 SA banks are larger, big deal. they are growing much slower and looking to invest in nigerian banks to help their growth. the industry in SA is top heavy. i counted maybe 7 banks, 4 near the top. nigeria had triple that amount.

If you combine Nigeria's top four banks, they're less than the size of South Africa's largest. (notice that the Nigerian stats are more recent than the South African stats on top of that) That's not "very large." Yes, it is a very big deal. You're quick to be a smart ass but then when you're proven to be very wrong it suddenly doesn't matter anymore. The growth of SA banks has sweet nothing to do with the current size of Nigerian banks vs. SA banks. Don't try to cover up your tracks by changing the topic (and I'd love to see those growth stats too - I'm very interested).

Secondly, Barclays is struggling and ABSA is considering a reverse-takeover of Barclays in order to save it.

And lastly, quantity vs. quality is a very important factor. Though Nigeria may have many banks, they're all rather small. If South Africa were to have as many banks in the mix we'd see a very similar picture.

compare them to SA banks and other than 2 or 3 SA banks, nigerian banks are larger

Saudi Arabia has the largest banks in the PO and it is petroleum depandant not emerging

If you combine Nigeria's top three banks, they'll be about the same size as South Africa's largest. That's not "very large." Yes, it is a very big deal. You're quick to be a smart ass but then when you're proven to be very wrong it suddenly doesn't matter anymore. The growth of SA banks has sweet nothing to do with the current size of Nigerian banks vs. SA banks. Don't try to cover up your tracks by changing the topic (and I'd love to see those growth stats too - I'm very interested).

Secondly, Barclays is struggling and ABSA is considering a reverse-takeover of Barclays in order to save it.

And lastly, quantity vs. quality is a very important factor. Though Nigeria may have many banks, they're all rather small. If South Africa were to have as many banks in the mix we'd see a very similar picture.

no white dummy, you stated when compared to SA banks nigerian arent very big. saying they are smaller than SA banks in no ways means they arent very big. you may see a bank that ranks second argest with several billion in assets as not very big, but the experts do and constantly rank nigerian banks as large.

standard is the largest. no one argues that. it's one of those overlays from the british that SA inherited, and ABSA is not a SA bank. why do you compare only the very top banks?

no white dummy, you stated when compared to SA banks nigerian arent very big. saying they are smaller than SA banks in no ways means they arent very big. you may see a bank that ranks second argest with several billion in assets as not very big, but the experts do and constantly rank nigerian banks as large.

standard is the largest. no one argues that. it's one of those overlays from the british that SA inherited, and ABSA is not a SA bank. why do you compare only the very top banks?

Firstly, I will be contacting the South African moderator about your racial comment.

Secondly, you really are an extremely thick person. Nigerian banks are not very large. "Very large" does not mean 5th biggest by billions upon billions. Whilst they may be large banks, they are not *very* large. If they are then what adjective would you use to describe Standard Bank with? "Extremely massive?"

You really are a joke.

Firstly, I will be contacting the South African moderator about your racial comment.

Secondly, you really are an extremely thick person. Nigerian banks are not very large. "Very large" does not mean 5th biggest by billions upon billions. Whilst they may be large banks, they are not *very* large. If they are then what adjective would you use to describe Standard Bank with? "Extremely massive?"

You really are a joke.

contact whoever you want cry baby. you sought to prove that nigerian banks arent very big when compared to SA banks but you're too simply to understand that its a subjective standard. what exactly is particularly large. they are 5th on the list of largest banks, with 4 SA banks bigger. at best it means SA has a few larger banks . big deal.

anyway, go call the SA moderator. i guess you feel your fellow countryman shares your bigoted views and will side with you. thanks for proving my point about how prevalent your bigoted views are in SA

contact whoever you want cry baby. you sought to prove that nigerian banks arent very big when compared to SA banks but you're too simply to understand that its a subjective standard. what exactly is particularly large. they are 5th on the list of largest banks, with 4 SA banks bigger. at best it means SA has a few larger banks . big deal.

anyway, go call the SA moderator. i guess you feel your fellow countryman shares your bigoted views and will side with you. thanks for proving my point about how prevalent your bigoted views are in SA

Aw cute, you make the mistake of thinking I, or anyone from the South African forum could care less about what you have to say :)

And secondly, facts and figures are not subjective. I sought to prove they are not very big, correct, and I did. Now when you realise you're wrong, a bank less than a third the size of South Africa's biggest bank is suddenly "very large." :lol:

^^ Lydon and Owo9ja

Will you both please stop being so petty

I just want people to know that Lydon doesnt represent all South African forumers. He is usually in the SSCAfrica section arguing with someone and what not..but that is not how most S.African forumers are.

In fact South African forumers are the ones who helped us get the SSCAfrica forum up and running. Their support helped us.

Lydon just seems to like to argue alot for some reason and thats okay too.

The same goes for owo9ja, I think he is a Nigerian forumer but he isnt representative of all Nigerian forumers who are usually good posters. For example one of the most excellent forumers- Tbite- is a Nigerian forumer if I am not mistaken.

I feel the need to apologise.

I am not here to troll or to flame. What does annoy me is when forumers constantly attack South Africa due to a number of various reasons. The main reason being race. As a white person myself, being forced to sit back and simply deal with the hate thrown towards SA and its white population is tough. Couple that with the constant jealousy expressed by some and their obsession with belittling my country and I'm sure you'll understand my frustration.

I try my best to contribute towards this forum, and will continue to do so. I will also try my best to ignore any racial remarks (as reports in this section seem to get ignored). Anyway, things have gotten out of hand and I once again apologise. Case closed.

^^that is a good first start Lydon. Things do get out of hand at times.

But how can anyone not like or praise South Africas prosperity and greatness? :?
To be honest with you, although I dont doubt your claims, I have seen very little of this "hate" you talk about directed towards South Africa in the SSC section.

In fact, most of us continually praise South Africa for many things. In the SKYLINE thread alone, almost all SSC forumers said South Africa has the best skyline in Africa and even competes among the best in the world.

South Africa is Africas pearl and pride and joy.
I dont think any African forumer disagrees with that, nor have I seen any consistent "hate" directed toward such a great nation here.

You've got a PM :)

Nigeria isn't an emerging market yet...but it will be one soon. Though its banks may be large, compare them to South Africa's banks for example and they don't look so large. So whilst they may be big, they aren't big enough yet. The keyword being yet.Compare to SA banks Nigeria's aren't actually as large but near as large. Zenith bank among large banks in Nigeria has an asset of over 50 billion dollars which is not too bad. SA cannot be a yard stick to measure emerging market of which all know is already among the club.

However, the world Economic Forum 2008 accept Nigeria and Egypt as the only seen emerging marketeconomies in Africa as at 2008. I am not trying to disrespect any other country in Africa. Yet , Nigeria needs to do moe than the other to really be called emerging economy like in the areas of investing massively on infrastructure, beefing up the security system, embracing a stable government, etc. Of which many other countries in Africa are doing well like in the case of Morocco, Tunis, Mauritius, Senegal ( that alone cannot be used at a measure too). I think Nigeria has a very high returns from its expatriates which is a very considerable factor of some emerging market economies.

Compare to SA banks Nigeria's aren't actually as large but near as large. Zenith bank among large banks in Nigeria has an asset of over 50 billion dollars which is not too bad. SA cannot be a yard stick to measure emerging market of which all know is already among the club.

However, the world Economic Forum 2008 accept Nigeria and Egypt as the only seen emerging marketeconomies. I am not trying to disrespect any other country in Africa. Yet , Nigeria needs to do moe than the other to really be called emerging economy like in the areas of investing massively on infrastructure, beefing up the security system, embracing a stable government, etc. Of which many other countries in Africa are doing well like in the case of Morocco, Tunis, Mauritius, Senegal ( that alone cannot be used at a measure too). I think Nigeria has a very high returns from its expatriates which is a very considerable factor of some emerging market economies.

precisely.

i am so sorry Lyndon....stop insulting the dude.Lydon keep on doing ya thing!

Oh for gods sake: everyone with half a brain cell knows that ABSA is not a british bank!! It merely has Barclays as one of its largest shareholders. It is still a South African bank listed on the JSE. Sorry to give the corporate law for morons lecture but having large shareholder from say Britain does not make a company british.

This is my list:
1. Democratic Republic of Congo
2. Zimbabwe
3. Liberia
4. Somalia
5. Central African Republic
6. Burundi...

... just kidding of course. Well, my true candidates are:

South Africa
Nigeria
Algeria
Angola
Tunisia
Egypt
Kenya
Botswana
Gabon
Morocco

Here is the Africa's ranking list according to HDI-2006.
http://hdr.undp.org/hdr2006/statistics/

63. Mauritius
64. Libyan Arab Jamahiriya
87. Tunisia
102. Algeria
106. Cape Verde
111. Egypt
120. Equatorial Guinea
121. South Africa
123. Morocco
124. Gabon
125. Namibia
127. São Tomé and Principe
131. Botswana
132. Comoros
136. Ghana
140. Congo
141. Sudan
143. Madagascar
144. Cameroon
145. Uganda
146. Swaziland
147. Togo
148. Djibouti
149. Lesotho
151. Zimbabwe
152. Kenya
153. Mauritania
155. Gambia
156. Senegal
157. Eritrea
158. Rwanda
159. Nigeria
160. Guinea
161. Angola
162. Tanzania, U. Rep. of
163. Benin
164. Côte d'Ivoire
165. Zambia
166. Malawi
167. DRC
168. Mozambique
169. Burundi
170. Ethiopia
171. Chad
172. Central African Republic
173. Guinea-Bissau
174. Burkina Faso
175. Mali
176. Sierra Leone
177. Niger

these so-call statistics don't mean a thing.some poorer countries are developing more than the richer ones

these so-call statistics don't mean a thing.some poorer countries are developing more than the richer ones

No it just means that some countries with a lower GDP per capita offer better living standards than so called "wealthier" nations. Cuba is a perfect example.

Oops, wrong thread. :D

Nigeria this, South Africa that.
I left a nigerian forum which South Africans are disturbing us in to come here and just to see Nigerians and South Africans fighting. Enough fighting. Who gives a fuck, Jeez. Nigeria has achieved alot in just 8 years political freedom and not only that in those 8 years, corrupt leaders are still leading it. Seriously, Do you guys want Nigeria to achieve something, majority of you all haven't in just fucking 8 years. We try our best, we are not magicians you know.

@ the SA that stated Nigeria is not an emerging market, read up on a country

"Nigeria is classified as an emerging market, and is rapidly approaching middle income status[citation needed], with its abundant supply of resources, well-developed financial, legal, communications, transport sectors and stock exchange (the Nigerian Stock Exchange), which is the second largest in Africa. Nigeria is ranked 37th in the world in terms of GDP (PPP) as of 2007."

"According to the Economist Intelligence Unit and the World Bank, Nigerian GDP at purchasing power parity has nearly doubled from $170.7 billion in 2005 to 292.6 billion in 2007. The GDP per head has jumped from $692 per person in 2006 to $1,754 per person in 2007."

Abeg, we have problems but at least give us some time. How many African country can say they acheived all this in 8 years after getting out of military dictatorship? Are we superhumans that you all except us to be the best in just 8 years?

In 2002, Nigeria was labeled the 22th poorest country in the world. In 2008, we didn't even make the 50th poorest country in the world. that's a huge achievement.

We jumped from having the one of the lowest GDP in Africa to the 3rd highest GDP in Africa. Abeg, we try our best. We are not superman you know

Nigeria this, South Africa that.
I left a nigerian forum which South Africans are disturbing us in to come here and just to see Nigerians and South Africans fighting. Enough fighting. Who gives a fuck, Jeez. Nigeria has achieved alot in just 8 years political freedom and not only that in those 8 years, corrupt leaders are still leading it. Seriously, Do you guys want Nigeria to achieve something, majority of you all haven't in just fucking 8 years. We try our best, we are not magicians you know.

@ the SA that stated Nigeria is not an emerging market, read up on a country

"Nigeria is classified as an emerging market, and is rapidly approaching middle income status[citation needed], with its abundant supply of resources, well-developed financial, legal, communications, transport sectors and stock exchange (the Nigerian Stock Exchange), which is the second largest in Africa. Nigeria is ranked 37th in the world in terms of GDP (PPP) as of 2007."

"According to the Economist Intelligence Unit and the World Bank, Nigerian GDP at purchasing power parity has nearly doubled from $170.7 billion in 2005 to 292.6 billion in 2007. The GDP per head has jumped from $692 per person in 2006 to $1,754 per person in 2007."

Abeg, we have problems but at least give us some time. How many African country can say they acheived all this in 8 years after getting out of military dictatorship? Are we superhumans that you all except us to be the best in just 8 years?

In 2002, Nigeria was labeled the 22th poorest country in the world. In 2008, we didn't even make the 50th poorest country in the world. that's a huge achievement.

We jumped from having the one of the lowest GDP in Africa to the 3rd highest GDP in Africa. Abeg, we try our best. We are not superman you know

So if you are fighting against sounthafricans why don't you go to the South African Forum . We don't need your fight. rmemeber it's between you guys and South Africa. Not everyone is interested in your fight.

So if you are fighting against sounthafricans why don't you go to the South African Forum . We don't need your fight. rmemeber it's between you guys and South Africa. Not everyone is interested in your fight.
It was a Nigerian forum.
If i remembered right. I said "Enough fighting" meaning people need to stop fighting.

I stated how do people except us to be the best in 8 years. Hell we were among the lowest during Abacha era but we moved to be one of the best in the 8 years of freedom. People need to stop thinking we can solve all our problems in just freaking 8 years. Give or take, i wonder where Nigeria would be in another 8 years.

IF you're going to be reading my comment, at least interpret what i say correctly. Thanks

It was a Nigerian forum.
If i remembered right. I said "Enough fighting" meaning people need to stop fighting.

I stated how do people except us to be the best in 8 years. Hell we were among the lowest during Abacha era but we moved to be one of the best in the 8 years of freedom. People need to stop thinking we can solve all our problems in just freaking 8 years. Give or take, i wonder where Nigeria would be in another 8 years.



It's ok to fight as along as no one goes personal. Get used to it.
That's what happens between countries.

I wonder when Nigeria-South Africa fighting going to end here.Why can we all just get along peacefully. There's nothing wrong prasing the acheivement of any country but writing bad things about other hurts.

I wonder when Nigeria-South Africa fighting going to end here.Why can we all just get along peacefully. There's nothing wrong prasing the acheivement of any country but writing bad things about other hurts.

You think it's only South Africa and Nigeria. as i said get used ot it. Every country does have someone they fight against.

Get used ot it. No free ride in the world mate.

those HDI figures are old...Alex Roney posted the new figures for 2008!!

those HDI figures are old...Alex Roney posted the new figures for 2008!!

Those are the figures that were posted in 2008, but remember with HDI theirs usually a 2 year delay. So next year's figures will be based on 2007.

was Nigerians and south africans fighting??

when?
about what??

i have never witnessed such, all arguments are based on peoples view based on facts/opinions they choose to bring on the table... didnt realise there was a SA/Naija beef going on

was Nigerians and south africans fighting??

when?
about what??

i have never witnessed such, all arguments are based on peoples view based on facts/opinions they choose to bring on the table... didnt realise there was a SA/Naija beef going on

I want to see that fight. It will be interesting.

I wonder when Nigeria-South Africa fighting going to end here.Why can we all just get along peacefully. There's nothing wrong prasing the acheivement of any country but writing bad things about other hurts.

Actually, until it was brought up here, there wasn't a Nigeria-South Africa fight on this forum for a very long time.

Actually, until it was brought up here, there wasn't a Nigeria-South Africa fight on this forum for a very long time.

hmm, not true. lydon had to go call his fellow south african to help him in a recent bout

Do not start again.

I want to see that fight. It will be interesting.

you would,wouldnt you?:)

So if you are fighting against sounthafricans why don't you go to the South African Forum . We don't need your fight. rmemeber it's between you guys and South Africa. Not everyone is interested in your fight.

us south africans arent even interested. please guys i dont want to have to keep warning everyone to be damn civil on these forums!

hmm, not true. lydon had to go call his fellow south african to help him in a recent bout

mate i think we all know what that involved, stick to the subjects please

..The countries emerging are the ones really talking. No doubt !!!

Excuse me, from a p.o.v of an outsider (not an african & never been there) I think South Africa will still lead.
It has best infrastructure, stable goverment (democracy) and a minimum of inter-ethnic violence.
Nigeria is probably second. Rich in resources & huge population.
Kenya & Egypt...well Kenya has had that nasty ethnic violence & fire still burns.
Egypt is ruled by a autocrat & having trouble with its economy,

Again, I've never been to Africa & judge only from reading papers & watching TV

Cheers!

Excuse me, from a p.o.v of an outsider (not an african & never been there) I think South Africa will still lead.
It has best infrastructure, stable goverment (democracy) and a minimum of inter-ethnic violence.
Nigeria is probably second. Rich in resources & huge population.
Kenya & Egypt...well Kenya has had that nasty ethnic violence & fire still burns.
Egypt is ruled by a autocrat & having trouble with its economy,

Again, I've never been to Africa & judge only from reading papers & watching TV

Cheers!

You are very correct, SA will somehow be the lead followed by Nigeria and Egypt. The only problem Nigeria has is leadership and lately its becoming stable and we are already seeing changes.

Most of the other countries depend on inbound investments and social attraction like Egypt.

Well I just want everyone to support each other in all ways.

Despite problems with drought, I hear Ethiopia is set to become Africas newest tiger economy. It has apparantly been booming double digit growth for the past seven years, albeit from a low base. Its also succeeded in securing investment in an industrial zone that is already producing the first African brand of car - the Abay, which is set for export to other African nations. Ethiopia could become the Japan of Africa! (seeing as it is so unique compared to other nations I can see this happening)

Despite problems with drought, I hear Ethiopia is set to become Africas newest tiger economy. It has apparantly been booming double digit growth for the past seven years, albeit from a low base. Its also succeeded in securing investment in an industrial zone that is already producing the first African brand of car - the Abay, which is set for export to other African nations. Ethiopia could become the Japan of Africa! (seeing as it is so unique compared to other nations I can see this happening)

What you talking about? Ethopia is like the poorest Nation in Africa.

You are very correct, SA will somehow be the lead followed by Nigeria and Egypt. The only problem Nigeria has is leadership and lately its becoming stable and we are already seeing changes.

Most of the other countries depend on inbound investments and social attraction like Egypt.

Well I just want everyone to support each other in all ways.

It’s only a matter of time, Nigeria is primed to take first position and with the current recession going on, it’ll be much sooner than we think.

South Africa is expected to be out of recession by the end of the year. We aren't actually officially in a recession either. That takes two quarters of negative growth and we've had 1 so far.

South Africa is expected to be out of recession by the end of the year. We aren't actually officially in a recession either. That takes two quarters of negative growth and we've had 1 so far.

I like your optimism.

Theirs no doubt that South Africa will have negative growth in the 1st qtr (thus be officially in a recession) the question is whether they'll have any growth in 2009. If they do it will be below 1%.

I like your optimism.

It's not my optimism, it is the optimism of economic analysts.

What you talking about? Ethopia is like the poorest Nation in Africa.
^^
Ethiopia has some of the greatest potential. Especially in Eastern Africa...and I dont think it is THE poorest in Africa. I concur with what Japopian said.

Theirs no doubt that South Africa will have negative growth in the 1st qtr (thus be officially in a recession) the question is whether they'll have any growth in 2009. If they do it will be below 1%.

The EIU projects a decline of -0.8% for SA this year so there will be no doubt we are in a recession and that we will have at least two quarters of negative growth this year in addition to the 4th quarter of 2008.

It's not my optimism, it is the optimism of economic analysts.

Well the economic analysts in SA are right now projecting a contraction in economic growth of as much as -2% for this year.

The EIA can't seem to convert Rands to Dollars :laugh:

^^
Ethiopia has some of the greatest potential. Especially in Eastern Africa...and I dont think it is THE poorest in Africa. I concur with what Japopian said.

Yes, that was a bit of an exaggeration; Ethiopia is in the bottom 8 poorest nations in Africa. Only a few nations in Africa are worse off than her.

I don’t agree with anything he wrote, because it’s too far off to say. When they begin to develop (and I mean real development), then we can start to make projections.

It's not my optimism, it is the optimism of economic analysts.

Well then I guess they’re optimistic and you’re optimistic for believing them.

Well then I guess they’re optimistic and you’re optimistic for believing them.

To be honest I really don't care what you think. If you think I value your opinion more than a qualified economist then you're highly mistaken.

Yes, that was a bit of an exaggeration; Ethiopia is in the bottom 8 poorest nations in Africa. Only a few nations in Africa are worse off than her.

I don’t agree with anything he wrote, because it’s too far off to say. When they begin to develop (and I mean real development), then we can start to make projections.


Ethiopia is getting better. So i agree with the kenya guy. Yes, it's still a poor nation but seeing as how their economy is improving, they have a great potential to make something out of that country.

You are very correct, SA will somehow be the lead followed by Nigeria and Egypt. The only problem Nigeria has is leadership and lately its becoming stable and we are already seeing changes.

Most of the other countries depend on inbound investments and social attraction like Egypt.

Well I just want everyone to support each other in all ways.


Nigeria is changing but it still has a longway to go, especially now that the government has to deal with many tribes trying to avert out of the country.

many tribes trying to avert out of the country.

Not a good news.:bash:

South Africa is expected to be out of recession by the end of the year. We aren't actually officially in a recession either. That takes two quarters of negative growth and we've had 1 so far.

It's great that you are so optimistic and hopeful, though the Nigerian rise to economic dominance upon the African market is inevitable. Resistance will soon be futile, my friend.

To be honest I really don't care what you think. If you think I value your opinion more than a qualified economist then you're highly mistaken.

How many times must you tell me this?

Please will you quit with the straw man arguments, it’s become so cliché of you.

The hallmarks of Lydon Rhetoric:

1. Tell you he doesn’t care
2. Create straw mans to support his position.

^^
Ethiopia has some of the greatest potential. Especially in Eastern Africa...and I dont think it is THE poorest in Africa. I concur with what Japopian said.

GDP: 25 Billion

Per Capita of $317 per head

HDI: 0.389

I’d say those stats constitute an extremely poor nation.

I’m not saying Ethiopia will not becoming a great nation someday; I’m simply saying it’s too early to make any sort of projections like…labelling Ethiopia the future Japan of Africa.

It's great that you are so optimistic and hopeful, though the Nigerian rise to economic dominance upon the African market is inevitable. Resistance will soon be futile, my friend.

:lol::lol::lol:

I think the idea of Nigeria being Number One in Africa makes his eyes bleed.

Well, with SA going for -2% economic growth and going into recession does not necessarly mean being overtaken by another country. SA is still far ahead in economy and infrastructure. its gonna take a long time before another coutry takes over. Do the counts.

People must understand the difference between a broad room for growth and maturity in terms of growth. eg: Zimbabwe might get an oportunity for rapid economic growth by a biggest margin of % with political changes eminent(ie if Mugabe steps down).

The good thing is African countries have that oportunity of good growth as they get more civilised and gain trust for investments from abroad. And as we get towards the sustainable democratic governance, thus reducing civil wars and other variables that disturb economic growth.

Nsukka, I have said time and again that Nigeria will be the largest economy eventually. Tell me exactly where in my post I said that it won't?

Congo-Kinshasa has a value of 24 000 billion dollars of raw materials in the ground!! That is a lot of money.
The could have a GDP of more then 300 billion dollar or more.

Sudan? lol

... lol

Morocco????
lmao
هانت الزلابية
:lol:

Morocco????
lmao
هانت الزلابية
:lol:

Don't be offended.
Be pragmatic, Darfur is in Sudan not in Morocco
And the International Court of La Haye wants to judge the president of Sudan not the king of Morocco:cheers:

Don't be offended.
Be pragmatic, Darfur is in Sudan not in Morocco
And the International Court of La Haye wants to judge the president of Sudan not the king of Morocco:cheers:

True.
So is Western Sahara and the polisario front.
:lol:

Mind you, I can tell the difference btw "pragmatism", and sarcasm and mockery. Know enough of you lot to realise your constant craving to underestimate us. It somehow makes you forget your own misery.

True.
So is Western Sahara and the polisario front.
:lol:

Mind you, I can tell the difference btw "pragmatism", and sarcasm and mockery. Know enough of you lot to realise your constant craving to underestimate us. It somehow makes you forget your own misery.

We don't underestimate you!!
Even if a lot of people do it, all over the world.
On the other hand, We don't have problems in Western Sahara. We have brave soldiers and a great army and they do a good job.

I'm being honest with you even if you're trying to be sarcastic:cheers:
I don't care...

True.
So is Western Sahara and the polisario front.
:lol:

Mind you, I can tell the difference btw "pragmatism", and sarcasm and mockery. Know enough of you lot to realise your constant craving to underestimate us. It somehow makes you forget your own misery.



I hope they catch criminal Bashir soon and bring him to justice. Killing 300 000 innocent people for nothing...:bash:

Your country should shame on it self..

True.
So is Western Sahara and the polisario front.
:lol:

Mind you, I can tell the difference btw "pragmatism", and sarcasm and mockery. Know enough of you lot to realise your constant craving to underestimate us. It somehow makes you forget your own misery.



Look first to your country my friend. People are killed, woman are rapped, genocide, people homes are burnt down etc in your country Sudan, but nobody their cares.

Sudan is a shame for the Islam and the world.

:bash:

Look first to your country my friend. People are killed, woman are rapped, genocide, people homes are burnt down etc in your country Sudan, but nobody their cares.

Sudan is a shame for the Islam and the world.



Ignorant Berber (barbarian), nothing more, nothing less. Typical of you to talk about something you know nothing about. It just demostrates your ignorance.

I wish all the best for the beloved Western Saharans and their brave fighters to achieve their freedom from colonial rule and aggression.
I'm trying to get a visitor's visa to the beautiful SPANISH enclaves of Sebta and Melila. I always wanted to visit Spain! Lovely country I hear. :)

Ignorant Berber (barbarian), nothing more, nothing less. Typical of you to talk about something you know nothing about. It just demostrates your ignorance.

I wish all the best for the beloved Western Saharans and their brave fighters to achieve their freedom from colonial rule and aggression.
I'm trying to get a visitor's visa to the beautiful SPANISH enclaves of Sebta and Melila. I always wanted to visit Spain! Lovely country I hear. :)

lol , you dont understand that we dont have any problems in western sahara, if u want you can visit it any time and u will see that this region is ten time more develloped then sudan

saharans brave fighters !!! what the hell are u talking about , do you think there is a war in W.S or what lol , who is the ignorant !!!:lol:
( that polisario group is less than 20.000 persons , Moroccan army is more than 350.000 soldiers lol)
and dont try to compare sudan with MOROCCO ok !! its a big insult to us
Morocco is a great country , with rich culture , that's why 10 millions foreign tourists visit MOROCCO
and yes spain is a lovely country that's why 1 million of moroccan tourists go every summer there in costa del sol and i dont think that a sudanese will get a visitor's shenghen visa :lol:
-sebta and melilia, 70% of the population there are moroccans lol
. dont push us to say more then that lol :)

Ignorant Berber (barbarian), nothing more, nothing less. Typical of you to talk about something you know nothing about. It just demostrates your ignorance.

I wish all the best for the beloved Western Saharans and their brave fighters to achieve their freedom from colonial rule and aggression.
I'm trying to get a visitor's visa to the beautiful SPANISH enclaves of Sebta and Melila. I always wanted to visit Spain! Lovely country I hear. :)

Spain is really beautiful.
By the way, In Sebta and Melillia you can get in without a VISA... if you was moroccan. LOL

The main economic activity of both cities is with the moroccan tourists on weekends:lol::lol::lol:

Don't be fool and Be careful with your comments. :cheers:
Insulting berbers is racism

And as a berber I don't accept it

Spain is really beautiful.
By the way, In Sebta and Melillia you can get in without a VISA... if you was moroccan. LOL

The main economic activity of both cities is with the moroccan tourists on weekends:lol::lol::lol:

Don't be fool and Be careful with your comments. :cheers:
Insulting berbers is racism

And as a berber I don't accept it

lol he is just jealous , coz all we know that berber is a wonderful romano-caucasian gene :cheers:
and we moroccans are not racist , we love blacks people :)

lol he is just jealous , coz all we know that berber is a wonderful romano-caucasian gene :cheers:
and we moroccans are not racist , we love blacks people :)

LOL @ romano-caucasian. Good luck with that! Tell that to Le Pen :lol:
When I said ignorant, I really meant it, and you never fail to prove me correct. We love "blacks people" too. And by the way, IF it makes ANY difference whatsoever, and I seriously doubt it does, my complexion if probably lighter than yours, barbarian.

@ Tetwani:
My deepest and most sincere wishes goes to you on the ultimate readmission of Morocco into the African Union.. someday, somehow. :)

LOL @ romano-caucasian. Good luck with that! Tell that to Le Pen :lol:
When I said ignorant, I really meant it, and you never fail to prove me correct. We love "blacks people" too. And by the way, IF it makes ANY difference whatsoever, and I seriously doubt it does, my complexion if probably lighter than yours, barbarian.

@ Tetwani:
My deepest and most sincere wishes goes to you on the ultimate readmission of Morocco into the African Union.. someday, somehow. :)

yeah if u want u can do some research about berber gene :) , and i think you are really an ignorant person :lol: as i see u have a problem with that ,i can understand it lol u are from sudan a country with 75% of population who are illiterates and civil wars wow:ohno: , and when i said that sudan is a living hell on earth i really mean it , and you never fail to prove me correct :lol:
i really feel sorry for you :ohno:

concernant the african union , what union !!:lol: too much corruption
Morocco have an advanced status with european union :) ( as the only country who have this advanced status)
http://www.africaontv.com/Members/nonosyan/news/eu-grants-advanced-status-to-morocco
and i repeat dont try to compare sudan with the great Morocco , and dont talk about Morocco and Moroccans coz u are just a sudanese
and good luck with wars and with the serial killer bachir
i dont hate sudan(but u hate Morocco) and i dont want to insult you and your sudan but you push us to that :)

^^A new low even for SSC : Africa."wonderful romano-caucasian gene",wtf?Fights over who is lighter in complexion?You have to be fucking kidding me.You lot are horrible ambasaddors for your respective countries.This is really downright disturbing.

The E.N.D., you have to remember that this is SSC Africa - the only forum in SSC where ANYTHING goes! :lol:












:ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

yeah if u want u can do some research about berber gene :) , and i think you are really an ignorant person :lol: as i see u have a problem with that ,i can understand it lol u are from sudan a country with 75% of population who are illiterates and civil wars wow:ohno: , and when i said that sudan is a living hell on earth i really mean it , and you never fail to prove me correct :lol:
i really feel sorry for you :ohno:

concernant the african union , what union !!:lol: too much corruption
Morocco have an advanced status with european union :) ( as the only country who have this advanced status)
http://www.africaontv.com/Members/nonosyan/news/eu-grants-advanced-status-to-morocco
and i repeat dont try to compare sudan with the great Morocco , and dont talk about Morocco and Moroccans coz u are just a sudanese
and good luck with wars and with the serial killer bachir
i dont hate sudan(but u hate Morocco) and i dont want to insult you and your sudan but you push us to that

You talk of "the great Morocco" as if it were part of the G20, and not that poverty-striken nation struggling for years with high rates of inflation, unemployment, emigration, etc!! All you have to do is turn on Aljazeera documentary.. you won't wait long till you find one about the misery and wretchedness Moroccans face! Lie, and then believe your own bullshit!

Yet you boast about your idiot dictator King sucking-up to European khawajas!! Good luck with the arse-kissing, you revel at it.:lol:

I honestly don't give a rat's arse WHAT your "great Morocco" does or doesn't do. But keep in mind, a word from your vile tongue about Sudan and I'll be here cutting it in half for you!
No matter how LOW you go, I'll willing to go down with you! I still have plenty.. just keep belittling Sudan and you'll hear more.
Glass houses and stones! Moroccans??

^^ unbelievable whahahahahahahahaha :lol::lol:

:eek2:



:lock::lock::lock::lock::lock:

You talk of "the great Morocco" as if it were part of the G20, and not that poverty-striken nation struggling for years with high rates of inflation, unemployment, emigration, etc!! All you have to do is turn on Aljazeera documentary.. you won't wait long till you find one about the misery and wretchedness Moroccans face! Lie, and then believe your own bullshit!

Yet you boast about your idiot dictator King sucking-up to European khawajas!! Good luck with the arse-kissing, you revel at it.:lol:

I honestly don't give a rat's arse WHAT your "great Morocco" does or doesn't do. But keep in mind, a word from your vile tongue about Sudan and I'll be here cutting it in half for you!
No matter how LOW you go, I'll willing to go down with you! I still have plenty.. just keep belittling Sudan and you'll hear more.
Glass houses and stones! Moroccans??


:wtf:
You definately need to be :banned::banned::banned::banned:

Morocco is a great country and we don't need to prove it, specially to a stupid sudanese like you!

The E.N.D., you have to remember that this is SSC Africa - the only forum in SSC where ANYTHING goes! :lol:












:ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

Ive seen it on other groups to, to be honets,

Morocco and just about everywhere else >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sudan.

Cape Verde, Ghana, Angola, South Africa
These stand to gain a bright future
http://atlantico-weekly.com/

You talk of "the great Morocco" as if it were part of the G20, and not that poverty-striken nation struggling for years with high rates of inflation, unemployment, emigration, etc!! All you have to do is turn on Aljazeera documentary.. you won't wait long till you find one about the misery and wretchedness Moroccans face! Lie, and then believe your own bullshit!

Yet you boast about your idiot dictator King sucking-up to European khawajas!! Good luck with the arse-kissing, you revel at it.:lol:

I honestly don't give a rat's arse WHAT your "great Morocco" does or doesn't do. But keep in mind, a word from your vile tongue about Sudan and I'll be here cutting it in half for you!
No matter how LOW you go, I'll willing to go down with you! I still have plenty.. just keep belittling Sudan and you'll hear more.
Glass houses and stones! Moroccans??




Our king doesn't kill people, childeren and woman for nothing and burns down their homes like Bashir does in Darfur. That is really sick..
Maybe you don't read much free media but your great leader Bashir is wanted by The Hague for genocide and crimes againist humanity..
A other facts is that 40% of the people in Sudan live below the poverty line and Morocco who has no oil has only 15%...


Don't act if you country is so fantastic.

Petty.How many of you people are older than 10yrs?

Our king doesn't kill people, childeren and woman for nothing and burns down their homes like Bashir does in Darfur. That is really sick..
Maybe you don't read much free media but your great leader Bashir is wanted by The Hague for genocide and crimes againist humanity..
A other facts is that 40% of the people in Sudan live below the poverty line and Morocco who has no oil has only 15%...


Don't act if you country is so fantastic.

Calm down Mister79 and Don't give him too much attention. He don't deserve it:cheers:

Morocco and just about everywhere else >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sudan.
Thanks for the well-informed and educated reply. What would this forum ever do without your brilliance?
Strange! I wonder why Rdokoye called you a "white dummy" on page 7?
OK clown, now that you've had your little episode of buffoonery, you can crawl back to wherever shit-hole you came from. :lol:

Thanks for the well-informed and educated reply. What would this forum ever do without your brilliance?
Strange! I wonder why Rdokoye called you a "white dummy" on page 7?
OK clown, now that you've had your little episode of buffoonery, you can crawl back to wherever shit-hole you came from. :lol:

I honestly couldn't give a flying duck what on earth you think :) So don't waste your time, newbie.

I honestly couldn't give a flying duck what on earth you think :) So don't waste your time, newbie.
Ahh... yeah! Right!

Whatever the fuck THAT meant!
:lol:
What an imbecile!
An unfortunate but still worthwhile attempt, i.e. sticking your nose in others' arses.. fucking moron.

Your posts continue to make little sense.

Your posts continue to make little sense.
???
Isn't that what I just said???
What, are you a cockatoo parrot now?
OK have it your way..
now roll over boy..
play dead..
fetch..
fuck off..

thaaaat's a good boy

Don't feed the troll, is often the moto of a good forum.

Don't feed the troll, is often the moto of a good forum.

So true!

http://enigma.dune.net/~eric/Do-not-feed-the-troll.PNG

:rofl:

Don't be offended.
Be pragmatic, Darfur is in Sudan not in Morocco
And the International Court of La Haye wants to judge the president of Sudan not the king of Morocco:cheers:

The king of morocco is a slave to washington thats why he will never be condemned for his crimes,tell me how many muslims have been sent to morocco to be tortured by the moroccan authorities at the behest of America,your authorities have been willing to pour acid on suspects before connecting them up to the national grid just because america said so. We will not be lectured to on human rights by the same people responsible for subjegation and colonisation of the sahari people,when your authorities give these poor people back their indepoendance from this modern colonialism then come and talk to us about Darfur.

though maroccans have always had a mistaken feeling of granduer after all Morocco is the only african country that isnt a memeber of the African union (apart from western sahara but they dont have a choice about it do they:ohno:)apparently believing that the EU is more suited for them:lol:
you speak french as your first language talk about an identity crisis:nuts::lol:.


listen am willing to draw a line under this before we all get banned,respect my country and I will respect yours.

Lulz, have never read so much bullshit in my entire life. Any moderator available? My god, bunch of children.

Lulz, have never read so much bullshit in my entire life. Any moderator available? My god, bunch of children.

Ne réponds pas à leurs commentaires provocateurs, tu leur donnes de l'importance!

I had always thought it would be SSA by default(typically is...), but if I were including North Africa I'd add Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt. Most of North Africa is already pretty industrialized in any case, but those 3 countries I think could really jump ahead. Egypt is getting a lot of investment-I'm hearing about a bunch of new car factories and the like going up there, and they even signed a contract recently to manufacture 80 chinese military jets.

I chose cameroon over nigeria mainly because:

1. it has a higher standard of human development already, having entered the medium development of the Human Development index a while ago, while Nigeria will still take maybe a decade to get there, if not more.

2. Cameroon seems a bit more stable. Nigeria is having far too many problems with internecine conflict for me to get too excited about it becoming an African lion just like that. We all know Nigeria can become an African lion IF it gets things together. That is a really big if.

Once it finally resolves all of this conflict, gets the poverty rate below 50%, and finally shows that it is even close to realizing its true potential(larger increases in GDP, an improvement with regards to world corruption rankings, etc, etc), I'll call it an African lion. That could happen in a decade or so. Right now? No.
Those countries are already in better shape overall than Nigeria, so by the time Nigeria does get it together, they will have already become the African lions(or lion cubs). Hence, I put their names up there instead.

I am somewhat optimistic now about Nigeria(although cautiously). The new president seems like he'll be better than the last to, given the fact that he is confident and he is actually literate with a college education. And despite the issues with Nigeria today, its HDI has been increasing:

Human development index, 1975 0.317
Human development index, 1980 0.376
Human development index, 1985 0.387
Human development index, 1990 0.407
Human development index, 1995 0.419
Human development index, 2000 0.433
Human development index, 2004 0.448

Which is a good thing. The problem is, those other countries are already ahead. Hence, they'll be the first African Lions, and Nigeria will follow them.

:lol::lol::lol: what do you know about africa really????
have you been there ???? NO

You choose cameroon over Nigeria :lol::lol::lol:
Very comedic indeed

it is official this forum doesn't represent what certain african countries really are

Naijalove, thanx for the link!:)

Africa´s Potential Lion Economies in the next decade

Nigeria(condition: reof Niger Delta Crisis , $30bn invested into physical infrastructure in the next three years but normally this should be no problem for Nigeria, if those conditions are met , the coming two yyears will be very crucial for Nigeria if all the major conditions are met - infrastructure, "controlled" corruption and stability - the sky is the limit:cheers: )

South Africa (it already is an emerging market)

Egypt

Algeria

Angola (the GDP of that country has spiralled upwards tremedously in the past years, it will continue to sky-rocket in the years to come)

Sudan

Morroco

Kenya

Ghana

Senegal


Africa´s potential lion baby economies

Tunisia

Botswana

Namibia

Gabon

Mauritius

Cape Verde (for tourism, financial offf-shore centre, real estate projects)

Sao Tomé (loads of oil)

Mozambique

:cheers:...good list

mozambique just discovered coal and is estimated to be the second exporter of coal in the nearest future after south africa....and oil is being drilled right now in mozambique so watchout......its economy is gonna grow

moreover, one cannot predict these kind of things when it comes to africa,..africa can be heaven today and hell tomorrow

the good economies are uplifted first from good political conditions the country faces, its resources and its foreign relations with other countries

without a strong and positive political climate we might as well stop the dreams for that time being

The king of morocco is a slave to washington thats why he will never be condemned for his crimes,tell me how many muslims have been sent to morocco to be tortured by the moroccan authorities at the behest of America,your authorities have been willing to pour acid on suspects before connecting them up to the national grid just because america said so. We will not be lectured to on human rights by the same people responsible for subjegation and colonisation of the sahari people,when your authorities give these poor people back their indepoendance from this modern colonialism then come and talk to us about Darfur.

Mohanad,
لا فض فوك
Well said.
They start the lambashing, the mocking and the belittling of others and expect no response.
But what strikes me most is their deluded conviction that they're in a place to judge others. :lol:
Just a waste of time talking to these fools, but Sudan is a red line.. cross it and you'll get nipped in the butt.

القافلة تسير والكلاب تنبح

Mohanad,
لا فض فوك
Well said.
They start the lambashing, the mocking and the belittling of others and expect no response.
But what strikes me most is their deluded conviction that they're in a place to judge others. :lol:
Just a waste of time talking to these fools, but Sudan is a red line.. cross it and you'll get nipped in the butt.

القافلة تسير والكلاب تنبح


I can see why the Egyptians look down on you and make a jokes about you, stupid,dumb, naive, spastic,retard, and thick.

Reported. Your comments are getting out of hand here.

Tunisia and South Africa of course they have the best infrastructures,the best economies and they are always competing for the first places in all ranking.

Tunisia and South Africa of course they have the best infrastructures,the best economies and they are always competing for the first places in all ranking.

What about Egypt, Nigeria and Morocco??? :nuts:

What about Egypt, Nigeria and Morocco??? :nuts:

I was speaking about countries that may become fully developped in recent years,i thought about including Morocco or Egypt but they have too much poverty.Nigeria is out contest in this field :lol:

I was speaking about countries that may become fully developped in recent years,i thought about including Morocco or Egypt but they have too much poverty.Nigeria is out contest in this field :lol:I thought you missed the mark. They said African Lion Economies not infrastructure development. Well, can you explain better for us how Tunisia will be emmerging African lion economy and Nigeria, Egypt,etc not? Don't forget Nigerian or Egyptian economy is far larger than that of Tunisian.

I thought you missed the mark. They said African Lion Economies not infrastructure development. Well, can you explain better for us how Tunisia will be emmerging African lion economy and Nigeria, Egypt,etc not? Don't forget Nigerian or Egyptian economy is far larger than that of Tunisian.

You are absolutely right,i was referring to countries that may shortly become developped even if the PIB of Tunisia is ridiculous compared to Nigeria.
I don't know how you can be a lion without a diversified economy and a good infrastructure even with a huge PIB.
So this is why i only choose Tunisia and South Africa.

I was speaking about countries that may become fully developped in recent years,i thought about including Morocco or Egypt but they have too much poverty.Nigeria is out contest in this field :lol:

MOROCCO
Unemployment rate:
Definition Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order Comparison to the rest of the world
10% (2008 est.)
Household income or consumption by percentage share:
Definition Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order
lowest 10%: 2.6%
highest 10%: 30.9% (1999)

SOUTH AFRICA
Unemployment rate:
Definition Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order Comparison to the rest of the world
21.7% (2008 est.)
Household income or consumption by percentage share:
Definition Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order
lowest 10%: 1.4%
highest 10%: 44.7% (2000)

Source : CIA Factbook


I think this numbers don't need comments!

MOROCCO
Unemployment rate:
Definition Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order Comparison to the rest of the world
10% (2008 est.)
Household income or consumption by percentage share:
Definition Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order
lowest 10%: 2.6%
highest 10%: 30.9% (1999)

SOUTH AFRICA
Unemployment rate:
Definition Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order Comparison to the rest of the world
21.7% (2008 est.)
Household income or consumption by percentage share:
Definition Field info displayed for all countries in alpha order
lowest 10%: 1.4%
highest 10%: 44.7% (2000)

Source : CIA Factbook


I think this numbers don't need comments!

And in terms of poverty ?

3 Nigerian banks are listed in Forbes 2008 2000 world largest company list. I think banking sector in Nigeria is receiving a boost, the telecommunication industry also,even the infrastructure(though, lot need to be done in this area) yet Tunisia can't be African lion without Nigeria, Egypt or Morocco not included on the list.

I understand what you are trying to explain,Shield.You are generalizing in a layman view economic development yet is beyond country infrastructure and diversity seen on daily basis. It absolutely correct to say that the potential of Nigeria becoming the African Lion economy is certained, though, with an unpredictable government(slow to fix the infrastructure,diversified the economy quickly as possible,curbing the Niger-delta issue, etc).

Tunisia in African continent is poised yet comparing it to Egypt and Nigeria in economies to a larger extent is absurd. I agree Tunisia has alot to contribute to Africa as whole but, let's not mixe things together in this regard.

And in terms of poverty ?

Poverty Rate

South Africa (1.25$ >) 26.2 (2$ >) 42.9
Morocco (1.25$ >) 2.5 (2$ >) 14

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentage_of_population_living_in_poverty

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Percent_poverty_world_map.png

That map is outdated.

That map is outdated.

Maybe

The poverty decreases in Morocco since 2000 (from 15% to 9% in 2008) and the Unemployment rate as well

The map shows to Shield that poverty is not as important in Morocco as in the other african countries. Even if in comparison with our neighboors of the E.U, people can think we have a lot of poverty .

3 Nigerian banks are listed in Forbes 2008 2000 world largest company list. I think banking sector in Nigeria is receiving a boost, the telecommunication industry also,even the infrastructure(though, lot need to be done in this area) yet Tunisia can't be African lion without Nigeria, Egypt or Morocco not included on the list.

I understand what you are trying to explain,Shield.You are generalizing in a layman view economic development yet is beyond country infrastructure and diversity seen on daily basis. It absolutely correct to say that the potential of Nigeria becoming the African Lion economy is certained, though, with an unpredictable government(slow to fix the infrastructure,diversified the economy quickly as possible,curbing the Niger-delta issue, etc).

Tunisia in African continent is poised yet comparing it to Egypt and Nigeria in economies to a larger extent is absurd. I agree Tunisia has alot to contribute to Africa as whole but, let's not mixe things together in this regard.


Tunisia has a good infrastructure and it's developping it every year,i think the country could become a bridge between europe and Africa,an accelerator of develoopement and transfer of technology to the other countries.
They are already doing it,building routes and helping african farmers.This is why i iadded Tunisia even if it has a small GDP compared to Nigeria.Nigeria's economy is only relying on oil and the GDP per capita is only 2.500 $ (7.900 $ in Tunisia ).
I am maybe mistaken for South Arica,but the country is stable,democratic (one of the main defaults of Tunisia ) and has also a good infrastrcuture and educational system.

Maybe

The poverty decreases in Morocco since 2000 (from 15% to 9% in 2008) and the Unemployment rate as well

The map shows to Shield that poverty is not as important in Morocco as in the other african countries. Even if in comparison with our neighboors of the E.U, people can think we have a lot of poverty .


I am sorry,i had a biased idea about Morocco,i thought the country was suffering from much more poverty.

You are using per capital income to judge an economy,I don't think that is good idea all byitself .Most countrie in Africa are helping out with development in Africa too. SA, Nigeria, Egypt,Morocco,etc and they are exchanging technical know-how between these countries.

Tunisia has a good infrastructure and it's developping it every year,i think the country could become a bridge between europe and Africa,an accelerator of develoopement and transfer of technology to the other countries.
They are already doing it,building routes and helping african farmers.This is why i iadded Tunisia even if it has a small GDP compared to Nigeria.Nigeria's economy is only relying on oil and the GDP per capita is only 2.500 $ (7.900 $ in Tunisia ).
I am maybe mistaken for South Arica,but the country is stable,democratic (one of the main defaults of Tunisia ) and has also a good infrastrcuture and educational system.



I don't agree with you. Nigeria is doing more for Africa then Tunisia, Nigerian banks, telecom, companies invest a lot in other African countries..
I haven't seen Tunisian companies doing this..

Morocco is the second African investor in Africa. Morocco has a lot of investment in other African countries like Senegal, Mauretania, Benin, Gabon, Congo, Equator Guinea, Ivory Coast etc in the field of telecom, banking, infrastructure etc.
And also thousands of sub-Sahara students study in Morocco...

Shield, The African countries who invest a lot in other African countries and bring know how are: South Africa, Nigeria, Morocco, Libya and Kenya..

Tunisia and Egypt aren't investing much in Africa.








Quote:

RAM, ONA, Ynna Holding, BMCE Bank… Several great Moroccan groups are established themself more and more in sub-Sahara Africa.

Othmane Benjelloun of BMCE bank has just got 35% of the capital of one of the most important banks of the African continent African Financial Holding. The Moroccan presence on the continent is grwoing like the ONA, Maroc Telecom, the RAM, Attijariwafa Bank, BMCE Bank or Ynna Holding understood that it was necessary to turn to sub-Saharan Africa. Since years already, several Moroccan investors discovered Africa as a market potential in which they launched several projects. All began in 2000 at the time Mohammed VI in Africa. “On invitation of the royal Cabinet, of large investors are solicited to accompany the king in his attempt to return to Africa”, Maroc Telecom acquires 54% of the shares of Mauritel (Mauretania), the RAM takes in its turn 51% of the capital of Air Senegal, the sea link Casa - Dakar created by Comanav goes until Libreville since the 2nd six-month period 2006, Attijariwafa bank opens a sénégalaise subsidiary company as of January 2006. “the kingdom of Morocco and its policy towards sub-Saharan Africa”, carried out by the French Institute of the International relations (IFRI) in November 2003. Chaâbi pioneer One of the first Moroccan contractors to have tried the African adventure is not other than Miloud Chaâbi. Is in Ivory Coast , The Chaâbi group started with the installation in Abidjan of a factory of pipes PVC, which employs a thousand of people. the group will extend to other African countries like Gabon, the Equatorial Guinea and Mali. In Gabon, Ynna Holding ambitionne to develop a property development accompanied by the installation of zones of leisures, tourist and residential high level as well as the creation of integrated shopping malls. In Guinea Equatoriale, the installation of production units of construction materials, conduits for the cleansing and drinking water are in the pipe. The Chaâbi group also hopes to launch out in real estate completion of projects, of shopping malls and hotel units in the main cities of the country. In Mali, several projects are being studied, in particular a factory of production and, crushing cotton-spinning of cement. Apart from the Black Africa, the Chaâbi group also present in Egypt where it carried out several projects of social housing for which it was preceded in Cairo. A real estate project which hooded in Senegal under the pressure of lobbys of the country and this in spite of the fact that Chaâbi signed a convention with the Senegalese for the realization of 10.000 units of housing top and average State standings. ONA is also active in Africa, through Managem which mainly works in the gold mines in Congo, and Oblong which distributes the food goods approximately, with a turnover of two billion dirhams. Managem discovered many ore layers in Africa, in particular in Guinea and in Burkina Faso. If the ONA turns to Africa for its primarily mining investments, it is because this continent has immense richnesses as regards metals which remain unexploited by the economic operators. Another subsidiary company of the ONA, Attijariwafa Bank, already present at Senegal, posts great inclinations for Africa. She wants in particular to accelerate her establishment in West Africa. Attijariwafa, which opened a subsidiary company and agencies in Dakar last year, had announced in October, a few months only after its installation, the repurchase of 66,67% of the capital of the Sénégalo-Tunisian Bank (BST). This repurchase, which will lead to a fusion of the two entities, enters within the framework of the ambitions of the Moroccan group to extend its activity on the whole of the territory of the Western Union Economic and Monetary African (Uemoa, eight country). RAM: a perilous adventure? The African adventure of the RAM begins in 1999, date on which the company repurchases 51% of the capital of Air Senegal International (ASI). This one exports its know-how while investing in new African companies of which it locks control thanks to a participation of 51%. The RAM wanted to reproduce the same diagram with Air Gabon International, namely the constitution of a joint-venture with a preponderance in the capital. The RAM also envisages to extend beyond French-speaking Africa by serving Ghana, Guinea and Nigeria. The project of International Air Mauritania, with catch of majority stake of Royal Air Maroc, is also in the pipe. The negotiators awaited only the verdict of the second round of the presidential election of March 11 to take again the talks. Sources close to the direction of the RAM, one confirms the return of the Mauritanians to the table of the negotiations.

The Newspaper Hebdo - Fédoua Tounassi

Tunisia has a good infrastructure and it's developping it every year,i think the country could become a bridge between europe and Africa,an accelerator of develoopement and transfer of technology to the other countries.
They are already doing it,building routes and helping african farmers.This is why i iadded Tunisia even if it has a small GDP compared to Nigeria.Nigeria's economy is only relying on oil and the GDP per capita is only 2.500 $ (7.900 $ in Tunisia ).
I am maybe mistaken for South Arica,but the country is stable,democratic (one of the main defaults of Tunisia ) and has also a good infrastrcuture and educational system.



Tunisia is allready for years a successtory in Africa if you look to their economy, education and social factors..
But Tunisia is more focussing on it self. Tunisian companies don't invest much in Africa..

You are using per capital income to judge an economy,I don't think that is good idea all byitself .Most countrie in Africa are helping out with development in Africa too. SA, Nigeria, Egypt,Morocco,etc and they are exchanging technical know-how between these countries.


I think we didn't agree from the start,from me an African Lion is a DEVELOPPED country in all aspects not just an oil rich country with no real economy and no real infrastructure.
Don't you think so ?

Tunisia is allready for years a successtory in Africa if you look to their economy, education and social factors..
But Tunisia is more focussing on it self. Tunisian companies don't invest much in Africa..


I think that a developped African country will drag all its neighbors down the same path,that's ma definition of an african Lion not just investissements and GDP growth or volume.

Ok,the topic is Which countries will emerge as the "African Lion" Economies.

I can see why the Egyptians look down on you and make a jokes about you, stupid,dumb, naive, spastic,retard, and thick.
:lol:
Who???
:lol:
It's like I said..
القافلة تسير والكلاب تنبح

You're continually embarrassing yourself. Clearly no one is on your side here.

to all the great people of Morocco ,north or south,visitors to that great country comes from all over the world ,i agree with you in some points not all,each country has its own beauty ,take a look here and tell me what you think....
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=631247

I KNOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LIONS BUT HOW ABOUT AFRICAN TIGER

Ghana 'will be an African tiger'
Ghana's President John Kufuor says the discovery of the country's first major oil deposit could turn the West African country into an "African tiger".
"Even without oil, we are doing so well... With oil as a shot in the arm, we're going to fly," he told the BBC.

"My joy is that I'll go down in history as the president under whose watch oil was found to turn the economy of Ghana around for the better," he said.

The discovery of 600m barrels of light oil offshore was announced on Monday.

Reserves in the Mahogany exploration well were far greater than the 250m barrels that UK-based firm Tullow Oil had earlier forecast.

Tullow, which saw its shares rise more than 12% on the news, jointly owns the West Cape block where the drilling took place with Anadarko Petroleum.

'Destiny'

Correspondents say champagne bottles were popping at Osu Castle, the seat of Ghana's government, after the announcement.

Mr Kufuor said the discovery would give a major boost to Ghana's economy.


We're going to really zoom, accelerate... and you'll see that Ghana truly is the African tiger
Ghana's President John Kufuor

"Oil is money, and we need money to do the schools, the roads, the hospitals. If you find oil, you manage it well, can you complain about that?" he told the BBC's Focus on Africa programme.

He dismissed suggestions that Ghana may follow in the footsteps of other countries that have mismanaged their oil wealth.

"Some are doing it well and I assure you if others failed, Ghana will succeed because this is our destiny to set the good pace for where we are. So we're going to use it well," he said.

"We're going to really zoom, accelerate, and if everything works, which I pray will happen positively, you come back in five years, and you'll see that Ghana truly is the African tiger, in economic terms for development."

His sentiments were echoed in many of Ghana's newspaper headlines on Tuesday.

The Statesman hailed the Gold Coast, Ghana's name under British rule, finding "black gold" and the Accra Daily Mail leads with the headline: "Thank God. Oil at last Thank God!"

The BBC's Will Ross in Ghana says the country is the midst of an energy crisis and every four days everybody has their electricity switched off for more 24 hours.

Ghana is described as somewhat of a success story in Africa but the country does suffer from widespread poverty and also has alarming levels of corruption, our correspondent says.

Tullow chief executive Aidan Heavey said the discovery was one of the biggest oil discoveries in Africa in recent times, but warned it could be up to seven years before the oil started to flow.

Tullow Oil holds a 22.9% stake in the West Cape Three Points licence and just under 50% in the Deepwater Tano licence.

The move comes as foreign firms are increasingly tapping into Africa for oil

i heard tigers only in asian countries,i think lion will fit africa.......

600 million barrels is quite small, and it would help the Ghanaian economy only if it is refined for local consumption. Looks like Ghana wants to export in the same scale as Nigeria or Angola (3-4 million barrels daily).

i heard tigers only in asian countries,i think lion will fit africa.......

Indeed. African Tiger? LOL. :lol:

I guess Ireland was called the Celtic Tiger because "Celtic Fieldmouse" wouldn't go down too well... so African Tiger, hmm, just doesn't fit at all!

Nigerian is really on the good way. Their non-oil sector growh with 10% in 2008 and in 2009 it will be 8%..

In the Dutch economic Magazine Elsevier they said Nigeria is turning in the African Taiwan. They have a lot of investments in manufactering etc since they have reformed their economy.

If this stays this way they can become the biggest economy of Africa in the future..

Ok heres a foreigner point of view...

Ive analyzed many lists on the net (ok its wiki, but still an effective research :lol:), so I´ll list the african countries named by such indexes as more developed / to be more developed in the future.

1.- The Advanced Emerging Markets List (FTSE Index / Stocks Index):
Southafrica and Egypt.

2.- The MSCI Financial Index:
Egypt, Morocco and Southafrica.

3.- The Next Eleven industrialized Countries (Goldman Sachs):
Egypt and Nigeria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Eleven

4.- The Newly Industrialized Countries (Random Classification):
Southafrica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newly_industrialized_country

5.- Members of the G-8 + 5
Southafrica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G8%2B5

6.- Members of the G-20 major economies:
Southafrica
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G20_industrial_nations

7.- Goldman Sachs BRIC's study (the next big economies for 2050):
Nigeria
Egypt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRIMC#BRIMC.2C_BRICK_and_BRIIC


So its pretty clear that Southafrica is now the African Lion economy and the next will be Nigeria and Egypt. Dont you think so? :lol:
It seems that Tunisia and Morocco are doing pretty well tho, and maybe they will reach higher PIB Per capita levels than the African Lions, but analysts expect they (Specially Tunisia) will remain more isolated / with less influence globally mainly because the size of their economies as a whole.......(something like Denmark and Germany, Denmark has higher PIB PEr Capita but Germany is considered a major-key leader economy)

So its pretty clear that Southafrica is now the African Lion economy and the next will be Nigeria and Egypt. Dont you think so? :lol:
It seems that Tunisia and Morocco are doing pretty well tho, and maybe they will reach higher PIB Per capita levels than the African Lions, but analysts expect they (Specially Tunisia) will remain more isolated / with less influence globally mainly because the size of their economies as a whole.......(something like Denmark and Germany, Denmark has higher PIB PEr Capita but Germany is considered a major-key leader economy)

You have a very good point here and we all know SA is really leading but as time goes on, country like Nigeria, Egypt and Morocco will emerge.

Nigeria needs a bit of luck.

The kind of luck we got when Abacha died in 98.

If We can see Governors like Fashola and Imoke, create role model states then there might be some societal healing that way.

The Federal Government won't cave in easily, it will need to be a gradual process.

The growth in the private sector however is already happening and this will really help.

Nigeria will continue to grow but how quickly is the question.

I mean countries like Philippines and Indonesia are growing even with some levels of corruption.

Nigeria needs some luck in alleviating some of its corruption which has become endemic.

Leave alone talking of African Lions: To become one, A country should invest in:

1. Infrastructure: I dont see any country coming close to this any time soon, except S.A...thanks to the World Cup!
2. Education: It's very suprising for pple here to argue abt being African Lions when the literacy levels alone in their respected countries is still less than 80% of the population. You must invest first in Education for everyone then invest in man power development! You can ve oil or minerals, no man power capacity.
3. Information and Communication Technology: This is where world economy is currently heading to. Only few countries in Africa is heading at the right direction..in sub-saharan Africa are S.A and Kenya! Where ICT is the fastest growing economic sector due to governements committment.
4. Leadership: African leaders lack political will to lead their countries in the right direction.

Dont brag of having wealth of minerals or oil, when the proceeds of the same goes direct to the few selected individuals and Western coutries!
THINK AGAIN OF TALKING ABOUT AFRICAN LIONS OR TIGERS! ACCESS IF THE COUNTRY MEETS THE ABOVE FIRST!

A lot of people talked about oil discoveries as a sign for future growth in there country. for me it's the opposite oil and gas are a curse for a country. i take the example of morocco my country, where we're blessed not having any oil or gas so we have to work harder, and optimize our resources in order to "survive". on the opposite side you have countries like Algeria where 240billion USD where stolen in the last 10 years and nobody noticed coz they're drowning in gas money. so what i mean is that a country need a balance in her financial income being too poor leave you struggled with the basic issues and no money for development and too much make you forget that you need to work in order to make money and you wake up one day with nothing left...
another point in the democratic issue, i don't tonk it's always a good thing to have a total democracy for emerging country's if you take algeria again as example they tried to have free elections too soon and they ended up with a civil war...(they're trying totalitarianism right now and it doesn't look like a success ether..) on the other hand a totalitarian regime is rarely a good one(but it worked perfectly for Tunisia for instance...) so i think the best choice for African countries is semi democratic systems, with HR and freedom widening slowly but surely...
We can find examples of countries with theses two criteria who are now fully developed like Singapore, south corea, Dubai or bresil
the rest is for me secondary(beside some ethnic and religious issues, who may be very difficult to solve... i don't see irak who has both developing any time soon for example..) coz with the proper government and the necessary financial capabilities the rest will logically follow... any government with the will to develop the country and the money to do so will develop infrastructure and education, there is no debate on this point..

PS: on a more personal side morocco will be one the the biggest african economies in the next decades(i bet No 3 after SA and Nigeria, coz the logical no 3 and 4, by population and resources, Egypt and Algeria, are ruled by idiots). coz even if when you refer to the international development rate rankings it my look like a country having a middle high development rate, from here the country is BOOOMING, huge(>100millon usd) projects announced or realized every day(i mean every single f***g day) in every possible field: energy education roads, rail, airports, ports, industries, off-shoring, it, telecom, urbanism, entertainment, real estate, tourism... and the most important a totally stable political system with fully committed to the development of the country on it's higher level(i mean our king)
Have a look at our forum to judge by yourself

^^i see your working in the castle good luck :lol:

^^i see your working in the castle good luck :lol:

Very funny... still looking forward for a more constructive intervention...

Very funny... still looking forward for a more constructive intervention...

je n'ai meme pas compris ce qu'il voulé dire au juste lol !!

^^ ri 7mar hadak madich 3lih! :lol: :lol:

je n'ai meme pas compris ce qu'il voulé dire au juste lol !!

Zarma je taff fla9sar... c'est ske j'ai compri la9sar=castel... lol

A lot of people talked about oil discoveries as a sign for future growth in there country. for me it's the opposite oil and gas are a curse for a country. i take the example of morocco my country, where we're blessed not having any oil or gas so we have to work harder, and optimize our resources in order to "survive". on the opposite side you have countries like Algeria where 240billion USD where stolen in the last 10 years and nobody noticed coz they're drowning in gas money. so what i mean is that a country need a balance in her financial income being too poor leave you struggled with the basic issues and no money for development and too much make you forget that you need to work in order to make money and you wake up one day with nothing left...
another point in the democratic issue, i don't tonk it's always a good thing to have a total democracy for emerging country's if you take algeria again as example they tried to have free elections too soon and they ended up with a civil war...(they're trying totalitarianism right now and it doesn't look like a success ether..) on the other hand a totalitarian regime is rarely a good one(but it worked perfectly for Tunisia for instance...) so i think the best choice for African countries is semi democratic systems, with HR and freedom widening slowly but surely...
We can find examples of countries with theses two criteria who are now fully developed like Singapore, south corea, Dubai or bresil
the rest is for me secondary(beside some ethnic and religious issues, who may be very difficult to solve... i don't see irak who has both developing any time soon for example..) coz with the proper government and the necessary financial capabilities the rest will logically follow... any government with the will to develop the country and the money to do so will develop infrastructure and education, there is no debate on this point..

PS: on a more personal side morocco will be one the the biggest african economies in the next decades(i bet No 3 after SA and Nigeria, coz the logical no 3 and 4, by population and resources, Egypt and Algeria, are ruled by idiots). coz even if when you refer to the international development rate rankings it my look like a country having a middle high development rate, from here the country is BOOOMING, huge(>100millon usd) projects announced or realized every day(i mean every single f***g day) in every possible field: energy education roads, rail, airports, ports, industries, off-shoring, it, telecom, urbanism, entertainment, real estate, tourism... and the most important a totally stable political system with fully committed to the development of the country on it's higher level(i mean our king)
Have a look at our forum to judge by yourself


It is a fact that oil is more curse then a bless for Africa. All oil countries in Africa have developed slower then countries without oil.


According to experts Morocco will have the comming 20 years the highest economic growth of the MENA region.

It is a fact that oil is more curse then a bless for Africa. All oil countries in Africa have developed slower then countries without oil.


According to experts Morocco will have the comming 20 years the highest economic growth of the MENA region.
rifi, a source will be more than welcomed :)

rifi, a source will be more than welcomed :)



:cheers:


A global construction report compiled by Oxford Economics found that, over the next 20 years, Morocco's economy will experience one of the highest levels of growth in the MENA region.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/574583-moroccos-red-tape-turns-gulf-investors-away?start=1

:cheers:

:lol: again extrapolating the sources and the articles : IT SAYS :

A global construction report compiled by Oxford Economics found that, over the next 20 years, Morocco's economy will experience one of the highest levels of growth in the MENA region.

Mister79 said :

It is a fact that oil is more curse then a bless for Africa. All oil countries in Africa have developed slower then countries without oil.


According to experts Morocco will have the comming 20 years the highest economic growth of the MENA region.

...

:cheers:
thanks man ;)

Finally someone understand me. Oil is not equal to Development. :cheers:

Finally someone understand me. Oil is not equal to Development. :cheers:

We have many examples of non developed oil producers! ;)

We have many examples of non developed oil producers! ;)

L'Algerie vend principalement du gaz :D mais bon l'économie commence à peine à se diversifier ...

L'Algerie est principalement un pays gazier :D

Alors rajoute le gaz au pétrole! ;)
T'inquiete, je ne visais pas l'Algerie! ;)

T'inquiete, je ne visais pas l'Algerie! ;)

pas toi mais les autres ... ils se reconnaitront :)

pas toi mais les autres ... ils se reconnaitront :)

Ca vaaaa! Maroc et Algerie = Tom et Jerry! Tout le monde le sait! ;) :lol:

pas toi mais les autres ... ils se reconnaitront :)

Bah moi oui je visais l'algerie... C'est triste de voir un pays avec autant de ressources tout gâcher en corruption et pour faire chier son voisin...

:lol:
Who???
:lol:
It's like I said..
القافلة تسير والكلاب تنبح

I wonder why did you highlight the word Egyptians????????????

now we are facing language barrier again:lol::bash:

:lol: again extrapolating the sources and the articles : IT SAYS :
...

Bravo! tu t'es fait chier juste pour dire ça!!

Tu dois être vachement motivé. On devait traiter avec les algériens au début et maintenant les Tunisiens aussi !! :ohno:

T'es vraiment qu'un jaloux parmi tant d'autres

Guys, I am not from Africa, but if you listen to me I could say in general South Africa, Marocco and Tunisia look like the most developed ones from your continent. Developed not only in sense of poverty or big companies, but everything from infrastructure to education, industry to poverty, literacy to social services.

yeah!! i ll add egypt and algeria , kenya and DRC IF they get more organised!!

when i read that MOROCCAN SUDANESE , verbal war i just feel so sorry!!!

what a shame!! u should stop that , guys!! :D