I'm not going to even respond to your M-Line comment.

It will be unnecessary for Main Street to have LRT: that's just a duplication of the Canada Line. Is that what you call "efficient use of money?" I don't see the point of having LRT along Joyce: I think you meant 41st Avenue. Either way, the ridership on the 43, which will become RapidBus, is too low for it to have LRT. Fraser Valley LRT would also be a waste of money... We can't just jump straight to LRT without even providing RapdiBus service.

It doesn't matter if it's a duplication of the Canada Line, it's not. Main street and the Canada Line are two very different corridors, one serving as a regional train and the other a local neighbourhood. LRT is overkill, but not streetcars, and quite frankly, long over due. I think people focus on the flashy, shiny, new and fast and dismiss other options too quickly. Main street has huge ridership, buses are always packed and often bunched upped, there is nothing the Canada Line will do to alleviate that. Stop dreaming that the solution is as easy as rapidbus or some other bs like that, and can you please prove and provide facts that the LRT to Valley will be a waste of money????

It doesn't matter if it's a duplication of the Canada Line, it's not. Main street and the Canada Line are two very different corridors, one serving as a regional train and the other a local neighbourhood. LRT is overkill, but not streetcars, and quite frankly, long over due. I think people focus on the flashy, shiny, new and fast and dismiss other options too quickly. Main street has huge ridership, buses are always packed and often bunched upped, there is nothing the Canada Line will do to alleviate that. Stop dreaming that the solution is as easy as rapidbus or some other bs like that, and can you please prove and provide facts that the LRT to Valley will be a waste of money????

As of right now, there is no need in spending our money onto the Main Street corridor. Once the Canada Line opens, I can tell you that there will be a few less commuters using the Main Street bus. Right now, there is no express option going southwards within that area: the closest is Granville, which serves a complete different kind of commuter. I'm not saying there is going to be an immediate ridership decrease: what I'm saying is that we should be focusing our resources into other areas in Metro Vancouver, where it is needed.

Streetcars on Main St is no different than the trolley on rails. I personally love Streetcars and would like to see more investment in them, but I do not want our Streetcars to be replacing our trolleys, especially when we made a recent investment into replacing our trolley fleet.

LRT to the Valley is a waste of money. LRT, Streetcar, even just rapid transit in general, needs areas where there is higher density. Between Surrey, Langley, and Aldergrove, we have so many of these areas where it's just either houses spread across large lots, or farmland. As the density of the South of Fraser as well as the Valley increases, it would then be a better time to look at investing in a LRT to the Fraser Valley. As of right now, no it isn't a viable option. Commuter Rail, on the other hand, might be nice.

You can't just simply drag Rapid Transit routes without first testing them. We are moving slowly into phases, which is what every single city does. Start with the basics, RapidBus, and then move on as ridership and awareness increases.

If people want LRT in the Valley anytime soon, better get with it and stop all the highway expansion that is going on. Not only is this stealing transportation dollars from transit, it is also reducing the potential ridership for transit putting LRT off for 20 to 30 years minimum. Between the South Fraser Perimeter Road and the Highway 1 expansion, that is over $4 billion worth of roads. That would buy a lot of LRT (or even SkyTrain for that matter). With world trade collapsing, the whole idea of Gateway is looking more and more shaky.

If people want LRT in the Valley anytime soon, better get with it and stop all the highway expansion that is going on. Not only is this stealing transportation dollars from transit, it is also reducing the potential ridership for transit putting LRT off for 20 to 30 years minimum. Between the South Fraser Perimeter Road and the Highway 1 expansion, that is over $4 billion worth of roads. That would buy a lot of LRT (or even SkyTrain for that matter). With world trade collapsing, the whole idea of Gateway is looking more and more shaky.

That is called short term, tunnel vision. Bad economic times don't exist forever. I'm not a usual fan of road expansion, but Highway 1 is the only highway that goes through Metro Vancouver, and part of Vancouver: we need to upgrade the area so that people and goods move though the region properly.

In Vancouver, there needs to be more of a balance for public transit and road infrastructure. If you look at all other cities in the world with great public transit, like London, like Hong Kong, like Beijing, like Tokyo, like Seoul: they have freeways and roadways. I'm not saying we should build highways through our communities, but I'm saying we need to expand those that needs to be expanded.

That is called short term, tunnel vision. Bad economic times don't exist forever. I'm not a usual fan of road expansion, but Highway 1 is the only highway that goes through Metro Vancouver, and part of Vancouver: we need to upgrade the area so that people and goods move though the region properly.

In Vancouver, there needs to be more of a balance for public transit and road infrastructure. If you look at all other cities in the world with great public transit, like London, like Hong Kong, like Beijing, like Tokyo, like Seoul: they have freeways and roadways. I'm not saying we should build highways through our communities, but I'm saying we need to expand those that needs to be expanded.


Nevertheless it is understandable why so many people oppose the gateway program. Highway congestion is always going to exist, and will simply get worse over time. Widening the TCH is going to cover us until 2030 or so, but then what? There are really not alternative routes to build a parallel freeway without really taking a huge hit to the ALR, and it would just fill up with cars as well. I don't really oppose gateway as it's being built within existing right of way, but it's basically a quick fix last ditch effort.

In the end the worse the congestion is, the more likely people will start taking alternative modes of transportation, or try to live closer to work. Yes it's going to be tough on trucking, but freight can be moved on rail, and trucks are huge polluters anyways, people just need to adapt to the changing times.

As of right now, there is no need in spending our money onto the Main Street corridor. Once the Canada Line opens, I can tell you that there will be a few less commuters using the Main Street bus. Right now, there is no express option going southwards within that area: the closest is Granville, which serves a complete different kind of commuter. I'm not saying there is going to be an immediate ridership decrease: what I'm saying is that we should be focusing our resources into other areas in Metro Vancouver, where it is needed.

Streetcars on Main St is no different than the trolley on rails. I personally love Streetcars and would like to see more investment in them, but I do not want our Streetcars to be replacing our trolleys, especially when we made a recent investment into replacing our trolley fleet.

LRT to the Valley is a waste of money. LRT, Streetcar, even just rapid transit in general, needs areas where there is higher density. Between Surrey, Langley, and Aldergrove, we have so many of these areas where it's just either houses spread across large lots, or farmland. As the density of the South of Fraser as well as the Valley increases, it would then be a better time to look at investing in a LRT to the Fraser Valley. As of right now, no it isn't a viable option. Commuter Rail, on the other hand, might be nice.

You can't just simply drag Rapid Transit routes without first testing them. We are moving slowly into phases, which is what every single city does. Start with the basics, RapidBus, and then move on as ridership and awareness increases.

This is a simplistic way of viewing the transportation challenges in the region, it's a way to say that there is no need to justify rapid transit. What happened with the Millennium line? There was very little density along the Lougheed at first, but look at it now, TOD's at every station. The rail line exists to the valley, it passes through denser town centres, such as Cloverdale, Langley and Abbottsford. It is a tool to build density at a much lower cost than widening the freeway. As costs of operating personal vehicles rise and fossil fuels start to decline, rail to the valley will have a larger impact than just moving commuters.

That is called short term, tunnel vision. Bad economic times don't exist forever. I'm not a usual fan of road expansion, but Highway 1 is the only highway that goes through Metro Vancouver, and part of Vancouver: we need to upgrade the area so that people and goods move though the region properly.

In Vancouver, there needs to be more of a balance for public transit and road infrastructure. If you look at all other cities in the world with great public transit, like London, like Hong Kong, like Beijing, like Tokyo, like Seoul: they have freeways and roadways. I'm not saying we should build highways through our communities, but I'm saying we need to expand those that needs to be expanded.

Exactly, we need more balance. The road network is much better than the transit network so lets invest in transit South of the Fraser to bring it up to quality similar to that of the road network before investing $4.1 billion in highway expansion.

Gateway was based on straight line interpolation of increased shipping that was unrealistic even before the economic slowdown. With the expansion of ports up and down the coast, the expansion of the Panama Canal, and the Northern Passage opening up, their predictions of increase traffic through the port are pure fantasy. Then there is peak or at least high oil prices that will slow down trade during the economic recovery.

SC SkyTrain down KG to Newton Ext is a very busy route now running every 6 minutes all day til 9pm including Saturdays and that does not include rush hour express buses.

There is a valid point about Langley wanting LRT but then screwing up the rail corridor itself. There is a section along hwy #10 where the railway entires into Cloverdale/Langley that was ajacent to the road but have now covered it with bix box stores/plazas effectivly taking out the ROW. I also don't see Surrey/Langley setting up potential transitways/LRT corridors but instead are building all over the damn place leaving no transit corridors for future use.

A commuter line from Alder/Lang/Clov/Newt/72nd/Delta/ScottSky would do well all the way to downtown with a potential station at Lougheed. Anyone wanting to get onto SkyTrain could transfer at Scott Rd station.
The railway is there but it would require a total reconfiguration of the NuWest to Surrey rail bridge or better yet a total replacement.

Until that time express commuter buses from the valley to downtown with stations at Lougheed and Broadway would work well by using HOV on HWY#1

people in the valley stay in the valley for the most part - why don't they deserve an LRT?

people in the valley stay in the valley for the most part - why don't they deserve an LRT?

Do they want to pay for it? The reason why transit is so crappy is people in the valley revolted against the vehicle levy. With all the money being invested in roads in the valley, there won't be any left for LRT unless people want to pay higher taxes. So either encourage the government to stop the road building or tell them you want to pay higher taxes for transit.

What do you define as "the valley"? Abbotsford and points east were never part of TransLink and so the vehicle levy never did apply to them. A new levy won't apply to them either unless they join TransLink. Ultimately it was the NDP who killed the levy as a last minute election ploy. TransLink has passed the levy, all the Province had to do was sign off on it, but the NDP government of the day thought that canceling it could buy enough goodwill to get re-elected. It was bonehead politics that killed it. Had we had the vehicle levy signed off by the Province when it was presented to them, all tied up in a package ready for final approval, we'd all be riding the Evergreen line right now and not have lost a decade in transit expansion.

I'm not saying the SOF area doesn't deserve LRT. A great place to start would be down King George to atleast Newton. LRT from Scott Road SkyTrain down thru Delta along 72nd which already has the ROW intact. Possibly LRT to Langley but it will be difficult now because Cloverdale/Langley, due to development, have effectivly taken away the ROW.
Commuter rail would be great for getting into the city during rush hours and the line goes right to the busy Broadway/Commercial SkyTrain junction.
Until that time commuter buses using HWY1 HOV lanes to Vancouver would be great even if they terminate at Broad/Comm SkyTrain as there is the big bus area there were BLines are.
Even 10 commuter buses a la #351 would do wonders with a stop at Lougheed SkyTrain for those using the Expo/MLines.

Ultimately it was the NDP who killed the levy as a last minute election ploy. TransLink has passed the levy, all the Province had to do was sign off on it, but the NDP government of the day thought that canceling it could buy enough goodwill to get re-elected. It was bonehead politics that killed it. Had we had the vehicle levy signed off by the Province when it was presented to them, all tied up in a package ready for final approval, we'd all be riding the Evergreen line right now and not have lost a decade in transit expansion.

Sure, it was the NDP that refused to collect the levy that killed it but it was a bunch of Liberal supporters including Surrey Mayor Doug McCallum that rallied against the levy making it hard for the NDP to support it. If it wasn't for McCallum and the gang making it a political hot potato, it would have been a lot easy for the NDP to pass the levy. Any way, both the NDP, McCallum and the people that voted for him are responsible for that failure and the lack of transit in the valley.

Do they want to pay for it? The reason why transit is so crappy is people in the valley revolted against the vehicle levy. With all the money being invested in roads in the valley, there won't be any left for LRT unless people want to pay higher taxes. So either encourage the government to stop the road building or tell them you want to pay higher taxes for transit.

well valley is if you wanna go from guildford to willowbrook

thats what i mean by valley - basically surrey - langley is the "valley" to me

beyond that is no mans land aka abbotsford/chilliwack

thats a different valley ;)

Sure, it was the NDP that refused to collect the levy that killed it but it was a bunch of Liberal supporters including Surrey Mayor Doug McCallum that rallied against the levy making it hard for the NDP to support it. If it wasn't for McCallum and the gang making it a political hot potato, it would have been a lot easy for the NDP to pass the levy. Any way, both the NDP, McCallum and the people that voted for him are responsible for that failure and the lack of transit in the valley.

You may want to make not that McCallum was voted out of office, in part because of his lacklustre efforts to champion transit expansion for the South of Fraser.

The political thrashing about was at the local level and at the end of the day, the region's politicians decided to back a vehicle levy. The NDP did not have the right to interfere with that decision. It was a populist move and desperate election ploy. You should also note that opposition to the vehicle levy was region wide because nobody likes new taxes...pure and simple.

The idea that people who live south of the Fraser brought this upon themselves is elitist Vancouverite snobbery. Too many people in Vancouver ignorantly wag on about people in Surrey and the Fraser Valley and like to pretend they are greener and holier than thou. Sorry folks, it doesn't wash. We're all the same whether you like it or not and just because you can afford to pay the exorbitant rent or mortgage to live in Vancouver does not make you any greener or better than any of the working stiffs who can only afford to live in Surrey and the Valley are forced to trudge into Vancouver do the real work that makes the city run.