Taa rumun q wie.Niech sobie policzy ile rumunów pracuje we włoszech czy wogóle hiszpanii czy teraz ile się ich się najechało do niemiec.Wogóle to w szkole mamy ze 3 nowych.:booze::cheers:Yes,many polish workers in UK many.


This is a English speaking forum so plese respect this.
I hope that the moderator will remove non topic threads ASAP.

Taa rumun q wie.Niech sobie policzy ile rumunów pracuje we włoszech czy wogóle hiszpanii czy teraz ile się ich się najechało do niemiec.Wogóle to w szkole mamy ze 3 nowych.:booze::cheers:Yes,many polish workers in UK many.

Entschuldigen Sie, bitte!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanians

^^You can translate this.Have fun!;)

^^ Nothing wrong with Romanians immigrated to Spain, Italy etc ... UK:)

Entschuldigen Sie, bitte!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanians

Hallöchen dort steht nix Schlimmes,ich hab nur geschrieben,dass wir ein paar neue Kolegen aus Rumänien in der Schule haben.

… still counting ... still coming …:lol:

BTW I find it funny that the Poles complain that (now) Romanians are cheaper then them ... and take their jobs. Last week I went to a Polish birthday - sto lat sto lat niechaj zyją nam :cheers: - and one of the Poles (I know for ages) told me Romania, in comparison to Poland, is a third word country … and that wages in Poland are 3-4 time higher. But somehow I can not get upset with Poles ... they're nice people and, as Romanians, are desperate to show that they're not what WEuropeans think they are: plumbers and gipsies :cheers:

Did I miss something? Did UK open their labour markets for Romanians and Bulgarians already?

This is a English speaking forum so plese respect this.
I hope that the moderator will remove non topic threads ASAP.

That's funny because all last 20 posts are "non topic":bash::ohno:

Anyways, if data is from World Bank, i tend to trust it. I would imagine that 1,5 million is a number of Poles constantly "circulating" between UK and home, whereas numbers of WB are about people who appear to be settled for good..

I fully agree the official data of obtained working permissions by the Poles here in Sweden are around counted in some few thousands.
However the newly arrived Polish workforce is starting dominating some of the Muslim areas in the major cities in Sweden…and Sweden has officially around 400.000 Muslims


I find it funny that the Poles complain that? (Now) Romanians are cheaper then them ... and take their jobs. Last week I went to a Polish birthday - sto lat sto lat niechaj zyją nam - and one of the Poles (I know for ages) told me Romania, in comparison to Poland, is a third word country … and that wages in Poland are 3-4 time higher. But somehow I can not get upset with Poles ... they're nice people and, as Romanians, are desperate to show that they're not what WEuropeans think they are: plumbers and gipsies.
__________________
Polish people as well as Russian are well now for their arrogance however Russians have the Petrol dollars with buys them forgiveness…
Unfortunately for a lot of Poles they don’t really understand the consequences for their arrogance..
Do you know that the vast majority of the Polish Population still thinks that majority of the Rumanian population are Gypsies and are consuming rats to survive?

Did I miss something? Did UK open their labour markets for Romanians and Bulgarians already?

It's a formality ... Poles need to register and get a registration card and Romanians and Bulgarians need to apply for "work permit" that is also a ... card (blue) ... in/out UK with ID cards only

I fully agree the official data of obtained working permissions by the Poles here in Sweden are around counted in some few thousands.
However the newly arrived Polish workforce is starting dominating some of the Muslim areas in the major cities in Sweden…and Sweden has officially around 400.000 Muslims

... and i'm sure ethnic Swedes are very happy with that fact... :D

Polish people as well as Russian are well now for their arrogance however Russians have the Petrol dollars with buys them forgiveness…
Unfortunately for a lot of Poles they don’t really understand the consequences for their arrogance..

Poles are way better known for their pessimism and inferiority complexes, sadly consequences of those traits are far more destructive.

Do you know that the vast majority of the Polish Population still thinks that majority of the Rumanian population are Gypsies and are consuming rats to survive?

I'm a Pole and never heard of Romanians consuming rats. Are you sure you're quoting reliable polling institutes?

FRANKFURT (Thomson Financial) -- Daimler has widened its search for a new eastern European production site for its brand Mercedes-Benz beyond Romania and Poland on which it initially focused, Handelsblatt reported, citing company sources.

The report said the city of Cluj in Romania, previously under consideration, is now out of the running without giving any further details.

A final decision will be made during the second quarter, the report said.

It quoted a spokesman for the German car producer saying several sites in Eastern Europe are now being considered.

Eastern Europe, in particular Russia where Daimler does not have a site, has in recent years gained importance for the industry both as production site as well as a market.

^interesting. Daimler had plans for already several years to open a factory in Russia.
I hope they will choose Russia.

Having sold 25 percent in AvtoVAZ to French Renault, Troika Dialog intends to clinch a similar deal with KamAZ stocks. Already this year-end, the works will probably lure Volvo or Scania or MAN as a strategic partner. Under one of the scenarios, nonresidents may become the biggest co-owner of KamAZ. The alternative scenario provides for the merger with MAZ of Belarus but people in KamAZ don’t stake on this pattern.
KamAZ may dispose of 20 percent to 25 percent of its stocks to a strategic investor, i.e. to a western maker of trucks, news agencies reported yesterday with reference to the sources with the truck maker. Troika Dialog (19 percent in KamAZ) is said to have launched the talks with Volvo, Iveco, MAN and a number of other manufacturers. The deal could be clinched already this year-end.

The alternative scenario provides for KamAZ merger with its Belarus competitor, Minsk Automobile Plant (MAZ).

In KamAZ, they officially confirmed the possible sale of the stocks to an investor, specifying that “it isn’t the single variant of enterprise development,” but declining to elaborate. The news surged KamAZ quotes on MICEX by 4.8 percent (the index grew 0.8 percent) to $5.9 per a stock (the capitalization reached $4.2 billion).

KamAZ is Russia’s biggest maker of trucks. Ernst & Young estimates its market share at nearing 50 percent. The government holds 38 percent in KamAZ, KamAZ-Capital controls 33 percent, the firms of Troika Dialog have 19 percent, and 10 percent of stocks belong to top managers or float on the market.

Troika Dialog is well-experienced in attracting nonresident investors to an automobile maker of Russia. In late February, Troika Capital Partners sold to Renault a blocking stake in Russia’s car giant, AvtoVAZ, for $1.166 billion.

http://www.kommersant.com/p875463/Troika_Dialog_truck_KamAZ/

Here's (http://www.paiz.gov.pl/index/?id=7b7a53e239400a13bd6be6c91c4f6c4e) the list from 2006, but remember that in the meantime companies like Google, Cadbury, Sharp, Jabil, Flextronics, Delphi, Kimball... started or are starting their R&D centers. :)

BTW, i hope you'll keep your promise of proving us wrong. :D

There you go my friend.
And don't forget Czech rep. and Hungary are 4 times smaller then Poland

Czech rep.:

http://www.czechinvest.org/data/files/czech-republic-351.pdf

Hungary:

http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:M3qsE4oalswJ:www.itdh.com/resource.aspx%3FResourceID%3Dinv_RD+R%26D+hungary&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=ie

Happy now?
So what's next?
First man on the Moon was Polish?

Btw Paku, Slovakia will never have low unemployment thanx our 500 000 minority who will never work :)

So, 36 major foreign companies R&D centers in Czech Republic and 36 in Hungary also. Very impressive... Yet Poland has more of them... And weren't you supposed to prove that Poland was not numba one? :);)

So, 36 major foreign companies R&D centers in Czech Republic and 36 in Hungary also. Very impressive... Yet Poland has more of them... And weren't you supposed to prove that Poland was not numba one? :);)

I think I already did.
10 mil. inhabitants in Czech and Hungary 36 R&D each country
40 mil. in Poland 40 R&D

^and Russia and China have even more of them !

can we stop this dick measuring ?

http://www.ziuadecj.ro/action/article?ID=11029

Chrysler investeşte 600 de milioane de euro la Cluj


Producătorul mărcilor Jeep, Dodge şi Chrysler va deschide o fabrică în parcul industrial Tetarom III din comuna Jucu, devenită celebră după investiţia Nokia.Următorul mare investitor care va sosi la Cluj este gigantul industriei automobilistice, Chrysler, au declarat pentru ZIUA de Cluj surse guvernamentale care au dorit să îşi păstreze anonimatul.
Compania americană desprinsă acum mai puţin de un an din grupul DaimlerChrysler va construi în parcul industrial Tetarom III din comuna Jucu o fabrică de autoturisme, susţin aceleaşi surse.

Producătorul mărcilor Jeep, Dodge şi Chrysler va deschide o fabrică în parcul industrial Tetarom III din comuna Jucu, potrivit unor surse guvernamentale.



Următorul mare investitor care va sosi la Cluj este gigantul industriei automobilistice, Chrysler, au declarat pentru ZIUA de Cluj surse guvernamentale care au dorit să îşi păstreze anonimatul. Compania americană va construi în parcul industrial Tetarom III din comuna Jucu o fabrică de autoturisme, susţin aceleaşi surse.



Americanii au solicitat 170-200 de hectare în parcul industrial Tetarom III pentru a construi o fabrică pe poarta căreia vor ieşi automobile marca Chrysler. Investiţia, care s-ar putea ridica la aproximativ 600 de milioane de euro, va fi făcută prin divizia canadiană a Chrysler.

Americanii vor crea la Cluj 15.000 de noi locuri de muncă. Informaţiile privind iminenta sosire la Cluj a unui mare producător de automobile nu sunt noi. ZIUA de Cluj anunţa încă din 30 ianuarie că Mercedes (Daimler, fostă parte a DaimlerChrysler Motors Company LLC) ia în considerare Clujul pentru extinderea capacităţilor de producţie în estul Europei.



A rămas acelaşi consultant



între 1998 şi 2007, Daimler (producătorul mărcii Mercedes) a făcut parte din acelaşi grup cu Chrysler (grupul DaimlerChrysler), care – prin intermediul unei societăţi de consultanţă – sondează încă din 2002 piaţa românească în vederea deschiderii unei fabrici. După “divorţul” de anul trecut dintre Daimler şi Chrysler, ambele companii au rămas să lucreze, pentru România, cu aceeaşi firmă de consultanţă care acum intermediază investiţia americană de la Jucu.

Potrivit surselor noastre, reprezentanţii Chrysler care s-au deplasat în secret la Cluj, canadieni vorbitori de limba franceză, au ales Jucu datorită intenţiei companiei de a ataca piaţa est-europeană, în special Rusia, Belarus, Ucraina şi Moldova. Aceştia au cerut pentru investiţia de 600 de milioane de euro un teren de 170-200 de hectare şi s-au interesat de legăturile feroviare cu ţările din fostul spaţiu sovietic, unde vor fi exportate majoritatea autoturismelor ce vor fi produse la Jucu.



în industria de automobile, din 1925



Chrysler LLC (SUA) produce automobile încă din 1925. între 1998 şi 2007, Chrysler şi companiile subsidiare au făcut parte din grupul DaimlerChrysler. înainte de 1998, compania a purtat numele de Chrysler Corporation, iar sub sigla “DaimlerChrysler”, ea s-a numit “DaimlerChrysler Motors Company LLC”.

Pe 14 mai 2007, DaimlerChrysler AG (Germania) anunţa vânzarea a 80,1% din Chrysler Group către Cerberus Capital Management, L.P. (SUA). Cu toate acestea, Daimler continuă să deţină 19,9% din Chrysler LLC, noul nume al companiei rezultate din tranzacţia finalizată în 3 august 2007. Astăzi, Chrysler este cel mai mare constructor privat de automobile din America de Nord.



Via Canada



Investiţia de la Jucu va fi făcută, susţin sursele noastre, prin intermediul Chrysler Canada, cu sediul în Windsor (Ontario), deţinută în totalitate de Chrysler LLC SUA. Chrysler Canada deţine trei fabrici: o fabrică de asamblare la Brampton (Ontario) cu 3.750 de angajaţi (la 1 iulie 2007), unde se produc modelele Chrysler 300, Chrysler 300C Touring, Dodge Magnum şi Dodge Charger; o a doua unitate de asamblare la Windsor (Ontario), cu 5.200 de angajaţi, unde se fabrică Dodge Grand Caravan, Chrysler Town & Country şi Chrysler Pacifica; în fine, cea de-a treia unitate de producţie a Chrysler Canada se află la Etobicoke (Toronto), unde 400 de angajaţi lucrează la fabricarea de matriţe de aluminiu, pistoane, motoare şi piese de transmisie.

în 2007, Chrysler a vândut 232.688 de autovehicule pe piaţa canadiană. La această oră, Chrysler comercializează în întreaga lume trei mărci de automobile: Dodge, Jeep and Chrysler.



Expansiunea europeană



Istoria companiei americane consemnează că expansiunea în Europa s-a produs în anii ’60, prin dobândirea controlului asupra British Rootes Group (1964), Simca Franţa şi Barreiros Spania, formându-se astfel Chrysler Europe.

Aceste asocieri nu s-au dovedit tocmai profitabile pentru Chrysler, care le-a vândut grupului PSA Peugeot Citroën în 1978. Anii ‘80 au însemnat pentru compania americană o luptă pentru evitarea falimentului, din care Chrysler a ieşit învingătoare, ajutată şi de un împrumut de stat de 1,5 miliarde de dolari.



“Mariajul” cu Daimler



începutul anilor ’90 a consemnat revenirea Chrysler în Europa prin construirea unei unităţi de producţie în Austria. în 1998, Daimler-Benz a achiziţionat Chrysler, formând o nouă companie, DaimlerChrysler AG. Chrysler Corporation a fost redenumită DaimlerChrysler Motors Company LLC. După puţin timp, Chrysler a intrat într-un nou declin financiar, afectând negativ preţul acţiunilor DaimlerChrysler şi creând panică la sediul central din Germania.

în 2001, compania s-a debarasat de marca Plymouth şi s-au făcut planuri pentru reducerea costurilor prin folosirea aceloraşi platforme şi componente pentru mărcile grupului. Noul model Chrysler 300 a avut succes, înregistrându-se un reviriment financiar, iar Chrysler a început să aducă o parte importantă din profitul DaimlerChrysler, în mare parte şi datorită eforturilor de restructurare ce se făceau în interiorul Mercedes Car Group.



“Divorţul”



Conform presei internaţionale (France Presse, Associated Press, New York Times, BrandWeek.com etc.), pe 4 aprilie 2007, Dieter Zetsche, actualul preşedinte al Daimler (pe atunci, preşedinte al DaimlerChrysler – n. red.), a declarat că negociază vânzarea Chrysler, confirmând astfel zvonurile care circulau încă de la începutul anului. La o zi distanţă, un investitor, Kirk Kerkorian, a avansat o ofertă de 4,5 miliarde de dolari pentru Chrysler.

Pe 12 aprilie, Magna International of Canada a anunţat că este în căutare de parteneri pentru a oferta Chrysler. în cele din urmă, oferta Magna a fost devansată. Pe 14 mai 2007, DaimlerChrysler AG a anunţat că va vinde 80,1% din acţiunile deţinute la Chrysler Group către Cerberus Capital Management pentru 7,4 miliarde de dolari.

După finalizarea tranzacţiei, Chrysler Group (DaimlerChrysler Corporation) avea să devină, în mod oficial, Chrysler Holding LLC (denumire schimbată în Chrysler LLC imediat după finalizarea procesului de vânzare), cu două companii subsidiare – Chrysler Motors LLC (noul nume al DaimlerChrysler Motors Company), care produce mărcile Chrysler, Dodge şi Jeep, şi Chrysler Financial Services LLC (noul nume al DaimlerChrysler Financial Services Americas LLC), care preia operaţiunile Chrysler Financial.

în data de 7 august 2007, Robert L. Nardelli a devenit preşedinte al Chrysler, iar în 28 august Chrysler a angajat-o pe Deborah Meyer, fost vicepreşedinte pe probleme de marketing la Lexus, în funcţia de vicepreşedinte şi şef al operaţiunilor de marketing. în 6 septembrie, James Press, şeful operaţiunilor Toyota în America, a devenit

co-preşedinte al Chrysler.



Cele mai recente “mişcări”



începând cu finalul anului trecut, Chrysler colaborează cu producătorul indian de automobile Tata Motors, conform lexisnexis.com. Mini-camionul electric “Ace”, produs de Tata, va fi comercializat de Chrysler prin divizia Global Electric Motorcars (GEMCAR). De asemenea, în luna februarie a acestui an, potrivit Wall Street Journal, Chrysler intenţiona să îşi reducă producţia, de la 30 la 15 modele.



Şi Daimler e cu ochii pe Europa de Est



Preşedintele concernului german Daimler, Dieter Zetsche, a făcut publică intenţia de a deschide, în viitor, o fabrică în Europa de Est. Potrivit “Spiegel Online”, Zetsche a declarat că în noua fabrică vor fi produse, anual, cel puţin 100.000 de autovehicule din clasa compactă. Publicaţia germană “Handelsblatt” a anunţat şi ea că reprezentanţii companiei Daimler sunt în continuare în căutarea unei locaţii pentru o viitoare fabrică Mecedes în Europa de Est, însă cel mai probabil au renunţat la variantele iniţiale din România şi Polonia.

Citând surse din cadrul Daimler, “Handelsblatt” afirmă că posibila locaţie din judeţul Cluj, care a fost analizată de reprezentanţii companiei, nu mai este, momentan, de actualitate. Publicaţia mai precizează că o decizie finală, însă, cu privire la amplasamentul viitoarei fabrici Mercedes, care ar urma să producă automobile din clasele A şi B, va fi luată în al doilea trimestru al acestui an.


Mihai MOGA
mihai.moga@ziua.ro


Personally I can't belive them any more until it is made an official announcement!

Personally I can't belive them any more until it is made an official announcement![/QUOTE]

It’s a Daimler investment so we were right all the time the question is who is going to be the 2 investor Mitsubishi or GM or maybe some Asian company.
Anyway Congratulations!

^600 million ? isn't a little too much for a car plant ?

Personally I can't belive them any more until it is made an official announcement!

It’s a Daimler investment so we were right all the time the question is who is going to be the 2 investor Mitsubishi or GM or maybe some Asian company.
Anyway Congratulations![/QUOTE]

^^ Daimler split with Chrysler last year and they are now independent companies. Chrysler is a loss making company in N America, and I frankly do not understand what they are looking for in Romania, since Romanians are not very fond about American cars, but rather of German cars. I'd rather we have Mercedes producing here than Chrysler, but in the end any car producer is a good one for any country.

I do not believe anything either until I here an official press release from the respective company.

^^Yeah, from what i've seen in this thread, Romanian press has already had a few premature ejaculations. :lol:;)

^^ No, it's not that. Daimler had real plans to open a factory here. They had several meetings with the central and local governments etc. I do not understand what happened that Daimler changed their mind (IF THEY REALLY CHANGED THEIR MIND) !?! :dunno:

PS: I think it's more the fault of the local authorities and the companies in this game of who opens what factory where, than the fault of the press, which actually reflects all these talks behind closed doors.

http://itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=12553133&PageNum=0

KAZAN, April 6 (Itar-Tass) - The first in Russia Russian-Japanese joint enterprise for the production of trucks, Severstal-Isuzu, will be commissioned in Tatarstan on Sunday. Prime Minister of Tatarstan Rustam Minnikhanov will take part in the commissioning ceremony.

Medium trucks with the carrying capacity of 5.5 tons with Euro 3 engine have become the premiere of the new enterprise, Tatarstan’s Minister for Industry and Trade Alexander Kogogin told Tass. The plant will produce 25,000 trucks a year. Under the business project, it will be producing in the future a full assortment of trucks with the capacity from five to 22 tons, the minister said.

He said 66 percent shares in the joint venture belong to the Russian Severstal-Auto, 29 – to Isuzu, and five percent to the Japanese Trading House Sojitz.

Another enterprise of the Severstal-Auto company will be soon commissioned in the special economic zone Yelabuga (Tatarstan). The company is ready to begin a batch production of 75,000 Fiat-Ducato vans a year.

So Tatarstan is going to produce this:
http://www.truckworld.com.au/dispImg.aspx?class=T&size=7&id=65&num=1
and this:
http://www.vospers.com/upload/vospers/images/commercial/fiat-ducato-main.jpg

:cheers:

FRANKFURT (Thomson Financial) -- Daimler has widened its search for a new eastern European production site for its brand Mercedes-Benz beyond Romania and Poland on which it initially focused, Handelsblatt reported, citing company sources.

The report said the city of Cluj in Romania, previously under consideration, is now out of the running without giving any further details.

A final decision will be made during the second quarter, the report said.

It quoted a spokesman for the German car producer saying several sites in Eastern Europe are now being considered.

Eastern Europe, in particular Russia where Daimler does not have a site, has in recent years gained importance for the industry both as production site as well as a market.



This is what may (have) determine(d) Daimler and others to avoid moving/opening production in Romania:



Losses due to general strike at Dacia closing in on last year’s profit

Business Standard
07 aprilie 2008 de Dinu Boboc


The general strike organized by employees of French Renault group controlled local car manufacturer Automobile Dacia is likely to generate losses worth more than €120 million by April 9, when a court is scheduled to rule whether the strike is legal. The figure is close to profit posted last year by the car manufacturer, of €132 million.

By the end of last week, however, Dacia officials announced that single-shift production resumed, which could lower the losses.

Dacia employees went on strike on March 24, following failed talks on wage rises between trade union representatives and factory owners. The unionists demanded a RON 550 (€148) wage increase, while Dacia officials are willing to offer RON 130 (€35).

Dacia officials said in a press release that the gross average wage for workers is RON 1,663 (€450), 19 percent above the average Romanian wage.

^^ I've heard speculations that Renault may move the entire production at the (recently acquired) Avtovaz factory in Russia. The current French management is pissed off apparently by the demand for a significant increase of salaries at Dacia Pitesti from 450 Eur to 600 Eur, and threatens employees with closure of the factory. While this may be only a blackmail for the workers to drop their claims for increased wages, it may also hold some truth in it.

The French management claims that the wages at the Avtovaz factory in Russia stand at 200 USD (is that true?) and that may be a sufficient incentive for Renault to move the entire production from Romanian to Russia.

I do not think this is a real threat, but the strike has already turned into a damaging war to both parties: Renault has lost over 130 million EUR in just 3 weeks of strike, while workers lost their wages for the period of strike.

Dacia Logan (1,5dCi, 85hp) drive test

Bucharest-Sibiu
rhpZnPSJ090

Sibiu-Bucharest
6vv7SzilddA

^^ I've heard speculations that Renault may move the entire production at the (recently acquired) Avtovaz factory in Russia. The current French management is pissed off apparently by the demand for a significant increase of salaries at Dacia Pitesti from 450 Eur to 600 Eur, and threatens employees with closure of the factory. While this may be only a blackmail for the workers to drop their claims for increased wages, it may also hold some truth in it.

The French management claims that the wages at the Avtovaz factory in Russia stand at 200 USD (is that true?) and that may be a sufficient incentive for Renault to move the entire production from Romanian to Russia.

I do not think this is a real threat, but the strike has already turned into a damaging war to both parties: Renault has lost over 130 million EUR in just 3 weeks of strike, while workers lost their wages for the period of strike.

Didn't renault learned from the avtovaz lesson last summer ?

Avtovaz workers at Russia's largest carmaking plant have been returning to work after walking off the job on Wednesday morning in support of a wages and conditions claim.
The workers had demanded they be paid $US 1000 per month, and gave management until the start of August to agree.

http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/11778

Now what's the difference if they move the production to Russia. Avtovaz workers demand already $1000 :lol:

http://russiatoday.ru/business/news/23178

more news from avtovaz:

Russia’s largest car manufacturer, Avtovaz, has increased its domestic sales by 20% since the beginning of this year. Lada models have once again become competitive mainly due to their low price, but sales volumes are still lower than two years ago.

One hundred and forty five thousand cars - Avtovaz hasn’t sold this many since 2006.

Andrey Belyaev, a new Lada 2113 model owner, says he prefers the Russian car to the Chinese alternative.

“There are problems with spare parts for Chinese cars of the same class. Even if the car is under warranty, you will have to wait quite a while for the parts to arrive. With Russian cars there is no such problem,” he said.

But market watchers say that consumer psychology is changing. They now think not where to find the spare parts, but how often they will have to look for them.

So Avtovaz’s sales remain lower than 2006 and even the recent teaming up with Renault isn’t helping much according to experts.

“The first model the joint-venture decided to produce was a seven-seat minivan based on the Renault Logan. This car is similar to the one produced for example in India,” says Eduard Faritov, a senior analyst from Russian investment bank Renaissance Capital.

”The logic the company gave as to why they chose this model is really discouraging. They say they didn’t want to cannibalise any of the existing ones either on the Lada or Renault sides,” he said.

This logic wont’ save Avtovaz analysts believe.

Experts predict that if Avtovaz doesn’t go for market share more aggressively, it’s likely to continue losing market share at a rate of 10 % a year.

Why don't they introduce lada C ?
http://www.motoradictos.com/images/2007/03/img_3632.jpg

I am sure more russians will buy a lada then.

Didn't renault learned from the avtovaz lesson last summer ?

Avtovaz workers at Russia's largest carmaking plant have been returning to work after walking off the job on Wednesday morning in support of a wages and conditions claim.
The workers had demanded they be paid $US 1000 per month, and gave management until the start of August to agree.

http://russiatoday.ru/news/news/11778

Now what's the difference if they move the production to Russia. Avtovaz workers demand already $1000 :lol:

Thanks for this. Interesting info. But the article does not say whether the workers did get the wage increase. And, BTW, do you happen to know what is the current average wage at Avtovaz?

In any case....I am glad that all these foreign companies which come to EE countries thinking they can pay shitty salaries for ever will learn their lesson. I mean, take Dacia. They had 140 million EUR in profits in 2007. If the management had accepted to increase wages by 150 Eur, as the unions asked, the company would have lost 18 million EUR for the whole year. Now, after 3 weeks of strike, they lost all profits from last year. How smart do they have to be to achieve that! :bash: And they're still holding onto just a 50 Eur salary increase. :bash:

PS; Lada C looks awesome. Do you have more specifics on it? :cheers:

Not only more russions, hell, i would by a lada then!

Excuse me what are the largest automobile brands (manufacturers)in E. europe? Which countries own them?

Excuse me what are the largest automobile brands (manufacturers)in E. europe? Which countries own them?
By production I would say Avtovaz (Russia)

Thanks for this. Interesting info. But the article does not say whether the workers did get the wage increase. And, BTW, do you happen to know what is the current average wage at Avtovaz?

In any case....I am glad that all these foreign companies which come to EE countries thinking they can pay shitty salaries for ever will learn their lesson. I mean, take Dacia. They had 140 million EUR in profits in 2007. If the management had accepted to increase wages by 150 Eur, as the unions asked, the company would have lost 18 million EUR for the whole year. Now, after 3 weeks of strike, they lost all profits from last year. How smart do they have to be to achieve that! :bash: And they're still holding onto just a 50 Eur salary increase. :bash:

PS; Lada C looks awesome. Do you have more specifics on it? :cheers:

No they didn't get the $1000 a month salary because that would make Avtovaz bankrupt !
The workers AvtoVAZ work for seven to ten thousand rubles ($270 - $390) a month. Depends on what kind department you work and what kind of function.

Here is more interesting information
http://eng.expert.ru/printissues/expert/2007/31/interview_etmanov/

Btw; you are right EE is not china where people are going to work 16 hours a day for $200 a month, but on the other hand our workers’ union are demanding sometimes too much. Avtovaz has some 110.000 workers. A salary increase to about $1000 would be unrealistic. 110.000 X $800 (minus the $200 they already get)= :nuts:

http://cache01.stormap.sapo.pt/fotostore01/fotos//d9/bf/e6/37811_001qgx19.jpg

LADA-C is conceptual design on the basis of the new platform, which is developing in cooperation with Magna International Inc. and will become the base for the whole range of new LADA models. This class-C family will include sedan, hatchback, universal, compact van and cross-over with engines 1.6 – 2.0l

This is the other version, If any russian could tell when this car will go into production at Avtovaz ?

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9672/908853oa9ik0.jpg

The strike is over after more than 3 weeks from the seize of any work activities and losses of more than 150 milllion Euro to the company. Apparently, the company made a last offer of 120 Eur salary increase which the unions accepted. However, I think this is not over as the strike and the salary increase will have triggering effects accross the automotive industry in Romania, affecting also Ford and the dozens of car components.



Business Standard
11/04/2008



Grevistii de la uzina Dacia au hotarat sa reia lucrul, acceptand noua oferta a administratiei



Angajatii uzinei Dacia din Pitesti au decis, vineri, sa accepte oferta salariala a administratiei si sa inceteze greva generala declansata in urma cu trei saptamani.

Potrivit unui comunicat remis de administratia uzinei, acordul cu sindicatul a fost deja semnat, iar angajatii au reluat lucrul in jurul orei 13.00.

Reprezentantii administratiei s-au intalnit, joi noapte, cu sindicalistii si, dupa cateva ore de discutii, le-au facut o noua oferta salariala. Aceasta prevede acordarea a 300 de lei incepand cu 1 ianuarie si 60 de lei de la 1 septembrie, plus acordarea unei prime de rezultat pentru 2007 in valoare de minimum 900 de lei. Noua oferta este mai buna decat cea facuta la inceputul saptamanii, cand, per total, se ajungea la o crestere salariala de 390 de lei. Angajatii uzinei Dacia au intrat in greva generala pe timp nelimitat in data de 24 martie, dupa ce au respins oferta administratiei de majorare salariala cu 12%, pretentiile lor fiind mult mai mari. (NewsIn)

http://cache01.stormap.sapo.pt/fotostore01/fotos//d9/bf/e6/37811_001qgx19.jpg

LADA-C is conceptual design on the basis of the new platform, which is developing in cooperation with Magna International Inc. and will become the base for the whole range of new LADA models. This class-C family will include sedan, hatchback, universal, compact van and cross-over with engines 1.6 – 2.0l

This is the other version, If any russian could tell when this car will go into production at Avtovaz ?

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9672/908853oa9ik0.jpg

Congratulations...nice car. Looks a bit like the new Toyota Corolla. :cheers:

The unions accepted the company's last offer of a salary increase of 115 Eur, down from 150 Eur that the unions innitially proposed, but significantly higher than the company's innitial offer of 35 Eur. This is likely to have a triggering effect for other demands for salary increases at the new Ford car plant and at the other car components factories, as well.


Business Standard
11/04/2008



Grevistii de la uzina Dacia au hotarat sa reia lucrul, acceptand noua oferta a administratiei

Angajatii uzinei Dacia din Pitesti au decis, vineri, sa accepte oferta salariala a administratiei si sa inceteze greva generala declansata in urma cu trei saptamani.

Potrivit unui comunicat remis de administratia uzinei, acordul cu sindicatul a fost deja semnat, iar angajatii au reluat lucrul in jurul orei 13.00.

Reprezentantii administratiei s-au intalnit, joi noapte, cu sindicalistii si, dupa cateva ore de discutii, le-au facut o noua oferta salariala. Aceasta prevede acordarea a 300 de lei incepand cu 1 ianuarie si 60 de lei de la 1 septembrie, plus acordarea unei prime de rezultat pentru 2007 in valoare de minimum 900 de lei. Noua oferta este mai buna decat cea facuta la inceputul saptamanii, cand, per total, se ajungea la o crestere salariala de 390 de lei. Angajatii uzinei Dacia au intrat in greva generala pe timp nelimitat in data de 24 martie, dupa ce au respins oferta administratiei de majorare salariala cu 12%, pretentiile lor fiind mult mai mari. (NewsIn)

Fiat developing low-cost car for launch in 2010
Date of publication: 2008-04-11 09:54:21

According to German press reports, Fiat is planning to launch a low-cost car in 2010 and a micro car in late 2009 or early 2010, says the company's head of r&d Harald Wester.
Click to enlargeAs the likely Palio replacement, Fiat's low-cost vehicle is being aimed at developing countries. It is based on the Panda city car. However, it remains to be seen whether the vehicle goes on sale as a Fiat or carries a new brand name.

The smaller-than-500 car is expected to revive the famous Topolino nameplate though, offering enough room for four people on board. Being positioned below the 500, Fiat's planned micro car is aimed at buyers in developed countries. Sources claim it will be built at the company's plant in Tychy, Poland

Financial Times
By Paul Betts
Published: April 14 2008 17:05 | Last updated: April 14 2008 17:05




Cost of low-cost European automobile cycle


Renault must be relieved that the 19-day pay strike at its Dacia plant in Romania is finally over. The French car group acquired the Romanian manufacturer in 1999 and has since transformed it into one of the pillars of its international strategy and growth.

Dacia produces Renault’s no-frills Logan cars which, though developed for emerging markets, have become a runaway success in western countries. Cheap labour and low taxes, coupled with the Logan’s success, have helped Renault weather difficulties in its mature western European markets.

The Romanian plant that went on strike accounted for about 10 per cent of Renault’s total output in the first two months of this year. More significantly, its profit margin of more than 6 per cent is nearly double the average 3.3 per cent margin for the rest of the French group last year.

Renault also seems to have limited the financial damage of the long stoppage to about €13m and expects Dacia to produce 320,000 low-cost Logans this year. Its Romanian workers had downed tools for a 50 per cent pay rise. In the end they accepted a 28 per cent increase. These workers had already seen their pay increase by 140 per cent between 2003 and 2007 – much more than the local inflation rate and average Romanian salaries.

Yet if the Dacia workers can be regarded as privileged in Romania, after their latest pay rise they are still earning only about a sixth of their counterparts at Renault’s French plants. Their argument is simple. If they are producing cars for the mature western European markets, surely they should also eventually be getting if not the same salary and benefits as their French peers, at least something commensurable.

Renault is by no means alone in feeling the heat from more militant unions in the so-called low-cost countries of eastern Europe. Western carmakers have flocked to these markets in search of more competitive locations to manufacture an ever-increasing chunk of their production.

Last year Ford faced similar unrest at its Russian plant near St Petersburg, which produces its popular Focus model. Workers there demanded a 30 per cent pay rise.

This trend for higher wages is not limited to the automobile sector. CEZ, the Czech electricity utility, has just agreed a 25 per cent pay rise for its Bulgarian workers to cut short a potentially disruptive strike.

Offshoring and the search for low-cost production sites is not new to the car industry. In the mid-1970s, one of the favourite locations for European and indeed US carmakers was Spain, and to a lesser extent, Portugal. Ford, General Motors, Renault, Peugeot-Citroën, Volkswagen and Fiat all established operations or joint ventures in the Iberian peninsula. But by the late 1990s, Spain had priced itself out of the market as a result of demands for higher wages and improved benefits from car workers and labour unions.

A similar pattern seems to be spreading in eastern Europe – with one worrying difference. If it took roughly 20 years for the low-cost cycle to run its course in Spain; the current one looks like it will last only 10 years in eastern Europe. Companies may need to search even further afield for long-term solutions to their costs.


© Copyright The Financial Times Ltd 2008.

In t1, Dacia sales are up 37% in Romania and up 71% at the EU level. :banana:

In T1 Dacia sold 62.635 in total.



Vanzarile Dacia au crescut cu 37% in trimestrul I al acestui an, fata de aceeasi perioada din 2007
15 aprilie 2008
Vanzarile Dacia au ajuns la 62.635 de unitati (vehicule personale si utilitare) in primele trei luni ale acestui an, in crestere cu 37% fata de perioada similata a anului 2007, cand au fost comercializate 45.732 vehicule, se arata intr-un comunicat al grupului Renault.
Din totalul de 62.635 unitati comercializate de Dacia in primul trimestru al acestui an, 58.857 au fost vehicule personale, in crestere cu 33,8% fata de aceeasi perioada a anului trecut, cand au fost vandute 43.984 unitati, iar 3.778 au fost vehicule utilitare, in crestere cu 116% fata de primul trimestru al anului 2007, cand au fost vandute 1.748 de unitati.

Numai in luna martie, Dacia a comercializat in total 21.772 de unitati, dintre care 20.210 vehicule personale si 1.562 vehicule utilitare. Pe piata europeana, vanzarile Dacia au crescut in primul trimestru al acestui an cu 71,2%.

La nivel de grup, vanzarile Renault din primul trimestru al acestui an au ajuns la 638.554 unitati, in crestere cu 6,5% fata de aceeasi perioada a anului trecut. Din totalul vanzarilor la nivel de grup, 538.909 de unitati au fost vehicule personale (in crestere cu 7,9% fata de perioada similara din 2007) si 99.645 au fost vehicule utilitare (in scadere cu 0,7%).

Vanzarile marcii Renault au ajuns in primul trimestru al acestui an la 549.189 unitati, in crestere cu 4,7% fata de aceeasi perioada a anului 2007, cand au fost comercializate 524.496 vehicule. Din cele 549.189 vehicule comercializate sub marca Renault in trimestrul I, 453.322 de unitati au fost vehicule personale (in crestere cu 6,4% fata de perioada similara din 2007), iar 95.867 unitati au fost vehicule utilitare (in crestere cu 2,8%). (NewsIn)

April 15 (Bloomberg) -- Metso Oyj's Valmet Automotive unit, which assembles Boxster sports cars for Porsche AG, may build a Russian assembly plant near St. Petersburg to supply Europe's fastest-growing car market, a local government spokesman said.

Valmet plans to spend about 10 million euros ($16 million) during the first three years on building the plant, which would make 10,000 cars a year, Alexander Butenin, spokesman for the Leningrad region's economic development department, said today in a telephone interview. He wouldn't identify what kinds of cars would be manufactured at the plant.

Grigory Dvas, deputy governor of the region, met with Valmet Vice President Rainer Karjalainen and Finnish investors to discuss four possible factory sites. Company representatives will visit all four locations before another round of negotiations with the government, Butenin said.

Russian consumers, spurred by an economy that's entered its 10th consecutive year of growth, bought 1.6 million imported autos last year, up 61 percent from a year earlier. Several carmakers, Ford Motor Co. and Volkswagen AG among them, have built or plan to build factories in Russia to fulfill demand.

Valmet officials met with local authorities to learn about the region's development, Teija Ahlman, communications manager for the Uusikaupunki, Finland-based company, said in an e-mailed statement. ``No decisions of further activities have been made so far,'' she said.

Ahlman declined to comment on which vehicles the company might build in St. Petersburg or for whom. Valmet assembles the Cayman coupe for Porsche as well as the Boxster.

``Porsche has no comment on this,'' Michael Baumann, a spokesman for the Stuttgart, Germany-based carmaker, said in a telephone interview today.



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601095&sid=aMvZ5_Mm9fEM&refer=east_europe

I really hope they will build porsches in Russia :cheers:

The GPS has been developed by AROBS Transilvania Software. It has a 4,3” display and costs 170 EUR for the EE map only or 200 EUR for the entire Europe map (43 countries). The users may locate the objectiv they need to reach at street level and number level of the building. SMAILO can also function as a radar detector. :cheers:


The Money Channel
16/04/2008



A apărut primul GPS made in Romania
Miercuri, 16 Aprilie 2008


Românii atacă piaţa GPS-urilor estimată pentru anul acesta la aproximativ 15 milioane de euro. Unul dintre cei mai importanţi dezvoltatori de software pentru aplicaţii mobile şi distribuitori de echipamente GPS şi smartphone-uri cu GPS, compania AROBS Transilvania Software, a lansat prima marcă de GPS-uri romanească.

Denumit Smailo, GPS-ul atacă piaţa cu preţuri reduse. Modelul, cu un ecran de 4,3”, este dedicat posesorilor de maşini middle class şi costă 699 de lei, cu Harta Europei de Est sau 799 de lei cu harta Europei extinsă (43 de ţări). De asemenea, utilizatorii Smailo pot localiza obiectivul la care doresc să ajungă la nivel de stradă şi număr în toate cele 43 de ţări incluse în hartă.

GPS-ul poate funcţiona şi ca un antiradar, oferind posibilitatea de a downloada locaţiile radarelor fixe de pe tot teritoriul Europei precum şi diferite puncte de interes. “Smailo a apărut ca urmare a creşterii cererii consumatorilor pentru produse dedicate de navigaţie GPS, dar şi din dorinţa AROBS de a-şi consolida poziţia pe piaţa dispozitivelor cu GPS incorporat. Smailo vine la un preţ foarte accesibil, ceea ce sperăm să contribuie la transformarea acestui sistem GPS de navigaţie într-un “must – have” pentru toţi participanţii la trafic din Romania” a declarat Voicu Oprean, General Manager al AROBS Transilvania Software.

more news about Valmet: Valmet may also produce cars such as BMW, Audi, Mercedes-Benz or Lexus at their St. Petersburg plant.

Decision will be made by end of April !

http://www.kommersant.com/p883046/Valmet_St._Petersburg_assembly/

I've always wondered how come Lada is continuing to ...not come with a decent car.. years after the end of the cold war ? Actually the only proper vehicle ever is the first one which is nearly 1:1 Fiat model..
I mean I guess most of the Russian cars are made just to fill the domestic market..but at least they need some proper design and features. Russia has the engineers and the potential that's for sure..may be it's just automobile producers policy I dunno.
I took a ride in a 110 and that car was just wrong ...

I've always wondered how come Lada is continuing to ...not come with a decent car.. years after the end of the cold war ? Actually the only proper vehicle ever is the first one which is nearly 1:1 Fiat model..
I mean I guess most of the Russian cars are made just to fill the domestic market..but at least they need some proper design and features. Russia has the engineers and the potential that's for sure..may be it's just automobile producers policy I dunno.
I took a ride in a 110 and that car was just wrong ...
I am thinking the same. Did you know that they still produce this peace of sh*t

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3282/989197lada2vs.jpg

The thing is those cars are affrodable for poor russians and popular among communist party lovers :lol:

Time will come and now Lada(avtovaz) has joined technology and design center from Renault and Magna international they will make great cars in the future.

I also hope Lada will bring something with better quality and spirit and on the other hand affordable on the market :)

I also hope Lada will bring something with better quality and spirit and on the other hand affordable on the market :)
They are busy with it don't worry. Look last posts I posted about new lada models. The have very good equipment.

I like C concept (from the first pics) ^^ but most of the market units usually turn to be quite different. Anyway I'm lookin' forward for the newcomers :)

HotNews.ro
17/04/2008

Chrysler to open an engineering center in Romania, Poland or Russia



Chrysler plans to open an engineering center in Eastern Europe in either Romania, Poland or Rusia, Vice Deputy Frank Klegon declared for Detroit Free Press, quoted by Mediafax. Chrysler already holds such a center in China, within a complex development program of the company's activities abroad.

By the end of the year, Chrysler plans to hire some 1,000 foreign experts, Klegon said in an interview for Detroit Free Press. Thus, the company will set up some excellency centers in China, India, Mexico and Eastern Europe and in the same time they will reduce their employees in the States and Canada by 25,000.

Chrysler to open an engineering center in Romania, Poland or Russia

Contest ... again?!?! :lol::nuts::cheers:

Russia's gonna get it, since they already have a Chrysler factory over there. Unless, Chrysler decides to open a facotry in Romania, as we read in some newspaper, which I doubt seriously.

Ziarul Financiar
17/04/2008


Domestic car production set to triple

Romania sits near the bottom in terms of European car production, according to the statistical data released by the Carmakers' International Organisation (OICA).

In 2007, 241,712 cars were manufactured in Romania, up 13.2% year-on-year. Of these, a little more than 234,000 were passenger cars, while light vehicles accounted for 7,444 units, representing the Van version of Dacia Logan.

At a European level, Romania is third from bottom, ahead of only Serbia, where GM assembled 9,903 cars, and Slovenia, where 198,402 cars were manufactured.

Whereas in Hungary, Suzuki boasts the highest output, with Audi in second place, in Romania, Dacia holds the dominant position. Since February, the Mioveni plant has produced 61.3 cars per hour, or one unit ever 52 seconds.

Thus, the Renault-owned company has produced, on average, 1,300 units every day this year. To reach this impressive rate, Dacia has hired almost 900 new employees since the start of this year. According to company officials, while last year 222,914 cars were assembled in Mioveni, in 2008 over 320,000 cars will be manufactured, which includes the new Sandero and the Pick-Up version of Logan.

Despite a three-week strike at the plant, the company's officials maintain this year's production target will be met. As part of Renault's 2009 plan, Dacia will produce over 400,000 cars in Mioveni in 2009.

After production in Craiova reached 18,825 units last year, down almost 20% year-on-year, and is forecast to reach a minimum of around 3,000 units this year, Ford Motor Company, the new owner of Automobile Craiova will boost production to 300,000 units in 2012.

The number of jobs at Ford Craiova will be raised to 7,000-9,000 by 2012, and generate 36,000 jobs in total, while overall investments will hit 675m euros.

Dacia and Ford will manufacture over 700,000 cars together in Romania in 2012, a similar level to Poland's output in 2007.

Should Mercedes-Benz decide to build a new car plant with a production capacity of 350,000 units in Romania to assemble the next generation of A and B-Klasse models, after 2012 Romania may produce over a million cars per year.

The CEE car industry has boomed in recent years, with almost 6.2 million cars being assembled in this region, according to OICA statistics. In 2007, CEE production rose by 18.7%, much faster than the 5.5% level registered globally.

In the same year, figures confirmed the ever stronger role of the CEE region in the world's car industry, considering the world's top ten carmakers hold plants in this region they mainly use for export on Western markets.

CEE production accounts for 10% in overall passenger car production, and 5% in the production of commercial vehicles.

Domestic auto production


In 2007, 241,712 cars were manufactured in Romania, up 13.2% year-on-year. Of these, a little more than 234,000 were passenger cars, while light vehicles accounted for 7,444 units


At a European level, Romania is third from bottom, ahead of Serbia and Slovenia


Dacia and Ford are expected to manufacture over 700,000 cars together domestically in 2012


Sursa: www.zf.ro/articol_169110

Russia's gonna get it, since they already have a Chrysler factory over there. Unless, Chrysler decides to open a facotry in Romania, as we read in some newspaper, which I doubt seriously.

Since when does Russia has a chrysler factory ? I know Russian based firm GAZ produces GAZ-Siber with old chrysler factory equipment from the U.S but Russia doesn't has any real chrysler factory.

Did you know that they still produce this peace of sh*t

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/3282/989197lada2vs.jpg


And will produce it for 10 more years since french specialists from Renault think that this car is pretty good for it's price.

Does GAZ have a license to produce the Siber or has Chrysler actually leased parts of the GAZ factory to Chrysler to produce cars in the factory?

Does GAZ have a license to produce the Siber
GAZ bought everything, from license to assembly line.
Siber is owned completely by GAZ

And will produce it for 10 more years since french specialists from Renault think that this car is pretty good for it's price.

are you kidding me ? The french bastards can better produce Dacia (looks better) or a new cheap car which they promised for the russian market !

And will produce it for 10 more years since french specialists from Renault think that this car is pretty good for it's price.
If it costs more than 100 EUR that's bullshit.:lol:

are you kidding me ? The french bastards can better produce Dacia (looks better) or a new cheap car which they promised for the russian market !

As long as Russia buys the Logan from Romania, Renault may keep the Lada production for ever, as far as I am concerned. It's a good car. Pretty soon, it'll become an epoque car and will be worth a lot of money :D

Lada's are the best! They are best for racecars...rallies here are full of pimped-out Ladas...they are like fire-and-forget missiles...:lol:

As long as Russia buys the Logan from Romania,
Logan is domesticaly produced at Renault factory under Renault brand, Romania has nothing do do with it.

If it costs more than 100 EUR that's bullshit.:lol:

It costs like Tata Nano and that shit is so tiny it will drive only until it meats first crack on the road.

Then Renault should scrap the Logan production and replace it with the Lada production. Call it: Belle Epoque Lada and sell it to German and French cold-war nostalgics at 3 times the real price! It's a big market! :yes:

As long as Russia buys the Logan from Romania, Renault may keep the Lada production for ever, as far as I am concerned. It's a good car. Pretty soon, it'll become an epoque car and will be worth a lot of money :D

Moscow factory produces Renault Logan not Dacia Logan. Althought Dacias are also good sellers in Russia.

^^ same thing ... different name http://www.channel4.com/4car/gl/gallery/spy+shot/4899/

^^ same thing ... different name http://www.channel4.com/4car/gl/gallery/spy+shot/4899/

They are not 100 % the same. So skoda and VW are also the same then ?
Dacia equipment in the car is not the same as in a Renault and isn´t the engine from Renault ?

Dacia Logan and Renault Logan are more or less the same...

Since when do Skoda and VW produce a car with exactly the same name and body shape like Dacia and Renault do?

Nope, it's THE SAME car. Check here: http://www.logan.renault.ru/

From the pictures, Dacia Logan and Renault Logan are the same.

Also, I don't think Renault sells one car to WE and a better fitted car to Russia. :nuts:

Since when do Skoda and VW produce a car with exactly the same name and body shape like Dacia and Renault do?

There are models which almost look the same. Octavia is almost the Passat.

Nope, it's THE SAME car. Check here: http://www.logan.renault.ru/

From the pictures, Dacia Logan and Renault Logan are the same.

Also, I don't think Renault sells one car to WE and a better fitted car to Russia. :nuts:

The discussion was that Russia produces Romanian cars.
The Moscow plant produces RENAULT LOGAN with an french Renault engine under the French renault brand !!!

What is this with romanians and their Dacia pride :nuts:

^^ The Dacia Logan also has a Renault Clio engine. Actually, I mentioned before that the two cars are similar, only have different names.

Our pride is that Muskovite bankers drive the Logan, I already told you taht. :D

There are models which almost look the same. Octavia is almost the Passat.

there are a few diferencies :) :cheers:

The discussion was that Russia produces Romanian cars.
The Moscow plant produces RENAULT LOGAN with an french Renault engine under the French renault brand !!!

What is this with romanians and their Dacia pride :nuts:
Exactly. If romanians have developed it before being bought by Renault, we could talk. But now it's mostly a french car.

there are a few diferencies :) :cheers:

same with Dacia and renault ;) :cheers:

Exactly. If romanians have developed it before being bought by Renault, we could talk. But now it's mostly a french car.

I believe the next model will be designed in Romania...Renault is building a design center outside of Bucharest.

I believe the next model will be designed in Romania...Renault is building a design center outside of Bucharest.

No it will be designed by russians !


The world's fourth-largest carmaker Renault will soon be sharing its technological expertise with Russia's Avtovaz. The French firm is purchasing a 25 per cent stake in the troubled carmaker. The deal is expected to be completed this month.

Renault has raised the Russian flag at its giant Centre for Technology and Design on the outskirts of Paris. It's making sure workers know they've got a new partner.

http://russiatoday.ru/business/news/20601

No it will be designed by russians !


The world's fourth-largest carmaker Renault will soon be sharing its technological expertise with Russia's Avtovaz. The French firm is purchasing a 25 per cent stake in the troubled carmaker. The deal is expected to be completed this month.

Renault has raised the Russian flag at its giant Centre for Technology and Design on the outskirts of Paris. It's making sure workers know they've got a new partner.

http://russiatoday.ru/business/news/20601

So where does it say that the next Logan will be designed by Russians? Like I said, Renault is building a design center in Romania...They have a big piece of land (around 250-300 hectares) outside of Bucharest.


Business Standard
13 februarie 2008

Construction on the Renault Technologie Roumanie (RTR) design center in the village of Titu, near Bucharest, is to begin by mid- 2008. At present a design center is operating in Bucharest, but is scheduled for relocation next spring.

The first car model resulting from ongoing projects will be launched in 2011, RTR sources told Business Standard. Renault’s design team is currently working on several car projects, both based on the Logan model and new Renault models.

Renault is to invest some €100 million by next year in the design center. Total investments in RTR will amount to €456 mln. Some 500 new employees, most of them college graduates, are to be recruited this year for the center. RTR is to organize recruiting forums in Bucharest, as well as in Ploiesti, Bacau, Galati and Iasi. RTR currently has 900 employees.

With a total of 300 hectares, the center is to be Renault’s second largest worldwide, after the one in France.

same with Dacia and renault ;) :cheers:

Ruslan, seriously speaking now, what differences do you see exactly between Dacia Logan and Renault Logan. Please be specific. :cheers:

Ruslan, seriously speaking now, what differences do you see exactly between Dacia Logan and Renault Logan. Please be specific. :cheers:

Isn't it obvious? They are spelt differently.

^^ Yes, I know. But I am just trying to get Ruslan here to admit that a Russian made car is similar to a Romanian made car, and not better. But he cannot say it. :D

There are models which almost look the same. Octavia is almost the Passat.

Except that it's based on the Golf...so octavia is fully a golf, and not almost a passat. :lol:
But great car nonetheless:cheers:

Ruslan, seriously speaking now, what differences do you see exactly between Dacia Logan and Renault Logan. Please be specific. :cheers:

Seriously Le clerk what you want me to say ? That almighty romanians produced the almighty Dacia at the Moscow factory ?

As I said it is a French Renault engine which has nothing to do with romania and the Logo on the car is Renault not Dacia. Yes the cars are 90 % the same but they have nothing to do with Romania since they are locally produced in Moscow with 100 % french design, technology, development, chassis and powertrain !

So where does it say that the next Logan will be designed by Russians? Like I said, Renault is building a design center in Romania...They have a big piece of land (around 250-300 hectares) outside of Bucharest.


Business Standard
13 februarie 2008


I am sure that russian will design their own models for the russian market together with the french at the Paris Technology and Design center.

I am sure that russian will design their own models for the russian market together with the french at the Paris Technology and Design center.

That's fine. But as far as I know, the next Logan model (2011??) will be designed and tested at Renault's new design center outside Bucharest.

Seriously Le clerk what you want me to say ? That almighty romanians produced the almighty Dacia at the Moscow factory ?

As I said it is a French Renault engine which has nothing to do with romania and the Logo on the car is Renault not Dacia. Yes the cars are 90 % the same but they have nothing to do with Romania since they are locally produced in Moscow with 100 % french design, technology, development, chassis and powertrain !

I asked you what do you find different at the Logan made in Russia from the Logan made in Romania. My first impression from the pics I saw on the Russian website is that they are 100% similar. This is my contention. You said they are different and I asked why (or more precise, in what) are they different. However, I may give in that some of the Russian Logans are different since they are driven by the bankers over there. :D

I asked you what do you find different at the Logan made in Russia from the Logan made in Romania. My first impression from the pics I saw on the Russian website is that they are 100% similar. This is my contention. You said they are different and I asked why (or more precise, in what) are they different. However, I may give in that some of the Russian Logans are different since they are driven by the bankers over there. :D

There is no difference between our Logan and the Russiaan one. In fact Renault is exporting parts from Mioveni, so called CKD parts (Completely Knocked Down) to Russia and they only do the assembling.

What exactly does it mean: Completely Knocked Down?! :crazy:

In WE Logan is sold under the popular Renault brand, but for the EE is mostly under Dacia.
There's no differences between Russian and Romanian Logans. Actaully I've heard that there was a chance to sell Logan in some South America states under Nissan logo (as Renault-Nissan is consortium and both brands usually exchange technologies, engines etc.). I've seen already Nissan 1:1 to Clio Symbol.
But I'm not completely sure that the entire automobile is 100% French. I mean the idea,the project and the engine, gearbox etc are. But the car has very similar looks to previous Dacia models (although better) like SuperNova so I think there is some Romanian participation in the project.

What exactly does it mean: Completely Knocked Down?! :crazy:

Complete knocked down (CKD), is a complete kit needed to assemble a vehicle
More on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Completely_knocked_down

^^ OK, I thought of something else. :lol: But Ruslan won't believe you that Romanian parts are being assembled in Russia. :nuts:

^^ OK, I thought of something else. :lol: But Ruslan won't believe you that Romanian parts are being assembled in Russia. :nuts:

for Ruslan from http://www.renault.com/renault_com/en/images/13243%2013243_CP_Avtoframos__GB__tcm1120-559681.pdf :nuts:

... Production at Avtoframos is based on Completely Knocked Down kits
(CKDs) using parts produced either by local suppliers in Russia or in Dacia's Pitesti plant,
Romania, where they are collected in the central warehouse near the factory before being
trucked to Russia. Vehicle production in the Avtoframos factory is divided into three main
workshops: the body shop, where the car's body components are welded, the paint shop and
final assembly...

OK, thanks for your demonstration. :cheers: Q.E.D. as the Romans used to say! :lol:

for Ruslan from http://www.renault.com/renault_com/en/images/13243%2013243_CP_Avtoframos__GB__tcm1120-559681.pdf :nuts:

Yes some little parts like the car-mirror could be produced either in Russia or Romania ! The rest of the important car parts like the engine is from Renault !

Let's get some things straight ! Nobody diened that Renault or Dacia logan are almost the same cars ! But let's be realistic, the car is French, if some toy parts are made in Romania it doesn't mean the car is Romanian.

After all it's you Le clerk who thought that Russians in Moscow are buying romanian made dacias :lol:

So ,now Renault-VAZ has two almost similar cars in the same segment: the Lada Kalina and the Renault Logan.Why not just upgrading the Kalina more to western standards ?The VAZ managment is really great!First the Chevrolet-Niva bs,now the ugly Logan.:bash:

OK, I am glad you accept the Russian and Romanian Logans are similar. But watch out for 2010-2011, when the Logan SUV will be produced in Russia as the car will be entirely developed in Romania at the Dacia-Renault Research center near Bucharest. Anyway, I am sure Russians will not give a penny about that and buy the SUV, cause it's going to be a blast on all emerging markets. Just wait and see!. :yes:

Nowadays you can't really say this car is German, that car is French, that car is Italian etc... they all have components from various countries. You can only say things like "Renault is a French brand".;)

Btw... The entire line of Dacia vehicles
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/3926/671zp7.jpghttp://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6643/518ix7.jpghttp://img293.imageshack.us/img293/7913/519hi5.jpghttp://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8024/520ha5.jpghttp://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2374/667em1.jpg

... and Renault Logan made in São José dos Pinhais, Brazil.:)
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2633/792pxrenaultlogan2007cunr8.jpg

I've heard that the dutch are big fans of Dacia MCV. There's a Dacia Fanclub... about 2000 members (last time i read about it) and they meet once a month and measure their dic.. uhm... they show their cars to the others :D

I like Dacia Logan Pick up :cheers: Good for small businesses ...
sWoVO3yNAYQ

or good for :lol::cheers: ...
zXsly54xjg0&feature=related

I've heard that the dutch are big fans of Dacia MCV. There's a Dacia Fanclub... about 2000 members (last time i read about it) and they meet once a month and measure their dic.. uhm... they show their cars to the others :D

That's interesting! I didn't know Dacia sells to Netherlands. Or maybe the Dutch are so crazy about the car they come to Romania to buy it directly from the factory or from second hand shops to get it at lower price, same as Romanians go to Germany to buy second-hand cars. :D

Who says you have to come to Romania to buy the Dacia?
They have France and Germany closer :) Well, France, since in Germany the Logan didn't have much success ...

Last year, about 40.000 Logans were sold in France and 30.000 in Germany. Why is it not a success?

Oh, i didn't know about the 30.000 in Germany. All i knew is that most of the auto Magazines in Germany criticized our car a lot. So I assumed that the car didn't sell a lot there.

That's 70,000 more than Renault thought they would sell.

Oh, i didn't know about the 30.000 in Germany. All i knew is that most of the auto Magazines in Germany criticized our car a lot. So I assumed that the car didn't sell a lot there.

They tested it with heavily worn out tires to show how unstable the car is. :bash: The Germans did not want a new low cost competitor on their market. Then, they recognized the 'mistake' :D, and redid the tests, which came out a lot better. :lol:

Who says you have to come to Romania to buy the Dacia?
They have France and Germany closer :) Well, France, since in Germany the Logan didn't have much success ...

I was joking :bash::lol:

Stop joking! Jesus Christ!:hahano:
:lol::cheers:

Nine O'Clock
22/04/2008


Mercedes to decide on its Eastern Europe location this year
published in issue 4168 page 8 at 2008-04-22

The representatives of the Daimler carmaker will decide this year where the new Mercedes plant in Eastern Europe will be located, the head of the company’s R&D Department, Thomas Weber, stated at the Beijing Auto Show, Mediafax informs.

Weber did not verify the press information suggesting that the new Mercedes plant will be based in Romania, but did note that it would certainly be in Eastern Europe. ‘We are now assessing several locations, but a decision will certainly be made this year’ he said. The location will depend on both costs and labour force in that particular region. Another factor considered by the company officials will be the capacity to accommodate suppliers and logistics.

In January, Daimler officials announced that the group was planning top open a plant that would make Mercedes Benz motor-vehicles, and mentioned Romania and Poland as two of the possible locations envisaged. In April however, German group inside sources were telling The ‘Handelsblatt’ publication that they had widened their search to Eastern Europe.

The intention of the German group to open a plant in Romania or Poland has been often debated on lately by the Romanian national and European media. Romanian authorities including Cluj-Napoca Mayor Emil Boc and Sibiu Mayor Klaus Johannis admitted to having had talks to Mercedes officials.


http://www.nineoclock.ro/index.php?page=detalii&categorie=business&id=20080422-512461

^^ I still think that Romania and Poland are the favourite countries, since they have a a better supply and logistic infrastructure than Russia. Labour supply may though be a problem for Romania. I do not know about Russia or Poland though. Also, Russia is too far away for the initial needs of the locally unmatched parts supply. Take Ford. They are still going to supply parts by air to the Craiova factory for this year in multiple flights per day, until the suppliers will settle in the Craiova area, despite Romania having dozens of suppliers in the region.

I still think that Russia being mentioned in the list of possible locations may be a bluff from the Daimler officials in order to reap better conditions from the local officials for the proposed plant.

Worthless article...it has absolutely no new information. I think they just hit the recycle button.

Well, I take it a bit differently. The article comments a declaration by one of the directors from Daimler who now says that they are still searching for a location in EE. Last time I read a piece of news about this, Russia turned out to be a favourite location. Now, according to this statement, things are more blurry as to the location, which says a lot about the company's lack of determination for a certain spot already.

^^ I still think that Romania and Poland are the favourite countries, since they have a a better supply and logistic infrastructure than Russia. Labour supply may though be a problem for Romania. I do not know about Russia or Poland though. Also, Russia is too far away for the initial needs of the locally unmatched parts supply. Take Ford. They are still going to supply parts by air to the Craiova factory for this year in multiple flights per day, until the suppliers will settle in the Craiova area, despite Romania having dozens of suppliers in the region.

I still think that Russia being mentioned in the list of possible locations may be a bluff from the Daimler officials in order to reap better conditions from the local officials for the proposed plant.

Russia has best chances IMO - very good relations (preferential treatment could be easily negotiated), very cheap energy, huge market, skilled workforce ... and I bet Germany can strike a deal with(in):nuts: EU on non EU (but preferential) taxes ...

The most important issues for Daimler, as stated by the mentioned director, are the easy supply of parts and labour availability. Poland and Romania may have an edge on the supply of parts while Russia may have an edge on the availability of labour supply.

I think they have a difficult decision to make.

Well, I take it a bit differently. The article comments a declaration by one of the directors from Daimler who now says that they are still searching for a location in EE. Last time I read a piece of news about this, Russia turned out to be a favourite location. Now, according to this statement, things are more blurry as to the location, which says a lot about the company's lack of determination for a certain spot already.

Daimler never said Russia (or any other country for that matter) was the favorite. It was just press and some government/industry experts speculating.

^^ I still think that highest chances are that Mercedes will choose Romania. Cities? Brasov first, then Cluj.

^^ I still think that highest chances are that Mercedes will choose Romania. Cities? Brasov first, then Cluj.

you have no way of knowing that.

Unemployment in Brasov is a lot higher than in Cluj. Brasov has also a stronger experience than Cluj in machinery construction and a lot of laid off people from those industries. Brasov is and will grow even more as a transportation hub in Romania given the planned highways. In addition, Brasov has a stronger agglomeration of car parts factories than the Cluj area.

So, Brasov has an edge over Cluj in terms of availability of skilled labour but also car parts. That's why I think Brasov comes before Cluj for any car plant.

Unemployment in Brasov is a lot higher than in Cluj. Brasov has also a stronger experience than Cluj in machinery construction and a lot of laid off people from those industries. Brasov is and will grow even more as a transportation hub in Romania given the planned highways. In addition, Brasov has a stronger agglomeration of car parts factories than the Cluj area.

So, Brasov has an edge over Cluj in terms of availability of skilled labour but also car parts. That's why I think Brasov comes before Cluj for any car plant.

I was talking about Romania not Cluj or Brasov.

Russia has best chances IMO - very good relations (preferential treatment could be easily negotiated), very cheap energy, huge market, skilled workforce ... and I bet Germany can strike a deal with(in):nuts: EU on non EU (but preferential) taxes ...

If their goal is to sell on the Russian market, then Russia makes sense. If the main goal is to sell in the EU...not so much...just too far. All three countries have skilled workforces and I don't think energy costs play that big a role for a car assembly plant.

IMO low (preferential) tax and very cheap energy ...would make ZA difference

you have no way of knowing that.

Daimler wants to produce the A and B classes for WE and EE. Russia is a good place, but it's too far for parts supply. Romania and Poland are closer. Romania has lower wages while the parts supply is comparable. In addition, there's also a strong lobby for Romania from Ion Tiriac and the local german businessmen community.

EasyBourse
24/04/2008

PSA va investir dans le développement de moteurs moins polluants


PARIS (Reuters) - PSA Peugeot Citroën annonce le développement d'une nouvelle famille de moteurs essence destinée à conforter son avance sur le créneau des véhicules les plus respectueux de l'environnement.

Cette initiative, matérialisée dans un premier temps par un investissement de 300 millions d'euros sur le site de production de Trémery (Moselle) qui permettra la création de 500 emplois, répond à la volonté de la Commission européenne d'imposer des règles de plus en plus strictes en matière d'émissions de gaz à effet de serre.

En 2007, et pour la deuxième année consécutive, PSA est arrivé en tête des constructeurs européens proposant les véhicules aux émissions les plus basses.

Le nouveau moteur, caractérisé par une faible consommation d'énergie et des émissions de dioxyde de carbone plus modestes, devrait être commercialisé sur des automobiles du segment B, les 107 et 207 pour la marque Peugeot ou la C1, la C2, ou la C3 pour la marque Citroën, à partir de 2011.

"Il s'agit d'abord d'un investissement pour l'écologie, en France, dans une région (la Lorraine, ndlr) qui en a besoin, et, dans une deuxième phase, d'un investissement d'expansion internationale pour le groupe PSA", a expliqué Christian Streiff, président du directoire de l'entreprise, au cours d'une conférence de presse.

Deux unités de production doivent voir le jour. Outre celle de Trémery, une autre installation devrait être annoncée "avant les vacances d'été" en Europe de l'Est. Elle entrerait en service à partir de 2012.

"Nous examinons des opportunités en Pologne, en Roumanie, en Turquie et en Ukraine", a indiqué Christian Streiff. Selon lui, l'investissement dans l'un de ces pays devrait être équivalent à celui consenti à Trémery, où, à terme, 600.000 moteurs par an devraient être fabriqués.

Dans un communiqué, PSA précise que le nouveau moteur sera doté d'une puissance de 70 à 100 chevaux, avec pour objectif de proposer des véhicules dont les émissions de C02 seront inférieures à 100 grammes par kilomètre.

Bruxelles imposera, à partir de 2012, que toutes les voitures fabriquées au sein de l'Union européenne émettent moins de 120 grammes par kilomètre.

Matthias Blamont

Jeudi 24 avril 2008 / 17h33


http://www.easybourse.com/Website/dynamic/FicheValeur-Actualites.php?ISIN=FR0000121501&NewsID=441063

Bets anybody?? :nuts::lol:

I think Ukraine has high chances now, because an engine factory does not require a very strong parts industry, but only a strong steel industry, which Ukraine does have. :cheers:

That this shit again...why can't these assholes just make the announcement after they've decided where to locate.

Bets anybody?? :nuts::lol:

I think Ukraine has high chances now, because an engine factory does not require a very strong parts industry, but only a strong steel industry, which Ukraine does have. :cheers:

PS: I forgot about the strategic partnership signed between France and Romania, when Sarkozy visited Bucharest, a few months ago. I think this partnership will weigh heavily on Romania's side. (inter alia, the partnership mentioned a reciprocal support between Romania and France within the EU).

That this shit again...why can't these assholes just make the announcement after they've decided where to locate.

Because the time of the state monopolies is over.10-15 years ago the EU companies used to lick the asses of the communists in order somehow to get permission for building a plant in the ex-Warsaw pact countries and to use the extremely cheap labour force.However, few years later the old state-owned monopolies either got bankrupted, either got privatized.Since then the governments don`t need to subsidize them and that`s why there are no more restrictions for the foreign investors.On the other hand the Western companies realized that their money are from big importance for the developing countries and made them compete for the investments.
The manufacturer will build its plant in the country which offers the best subsidy(free land, tax preferences etc).

^^ Exactly...I was about to say that....these big companies are out just for some big state/local aid.....so they spell out the news 1 year before, and let the candidate countries step on each other with better and better offers (in terms of land, taxes etc). Then, they choose the best offer.

REUTERS
Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:58am EDT




UPDATE 4-Peugeot keeps targets, plans less-polluting engine

(Adds CEO comment, updates shares, adds Fiat results, analyst)

By Marcel Michelson

PARIS, April 24 (Reuters) - Europe's No.2 auto group, PSA Peugeot Citroen (PEUP.PA: Quote, Profile, Research), on Thursday kept its target for 2008 sales volume to rise 5 percent as first-quarter volume increased by 6.1 percent, and said it would invest in two engine plants.

Peugeot reported 2.3 percent higher first-quarter revenue of 15.21 billion euros ($24.3 billion), against an average forecast of 15.32 billion in a poll of 11 analysts.

Chief Executive Officer Christian Streiff said the group would build two plants for a new one-litre, three-cylinder engine with emissions of less than 100 grammes of CO2 per km.

One, in the east of France, will be ready in 2011 and another, in Poland, Romania, Ukraine or Turkey, in 2012.

The European Commission wants carmakers to hit a target of 120/130 grammes per km by 2012 but the industry wants more time.

The French plant will take an investment of some 300 million euros, mainly in 2008 and 2009.

The engine will be used in six car models in 2011 and eight in 2012. By 2015, it will account for up to 25 percent of all Peugeot engines and cut overall CO2 emissions for cars in the group's line-up by 15 percent.

Streiff said Peugeot Citroen was relatively CO2-frugal and the new engine would enhance its leading position. But he did not exclude providing the engine to other manufacturers or a co-operation deal at a later stage.


NEW MODELS

The group, in which the Peugeot family has a stake of about a third and holds a majority of the votes, said it would have a significant number of product launches in the second quarter that would boost sales.

These include the 308 SW station wagon, the Citroen C5 saloon and C5 tourer model in the very competitive upper medium segment, light commercial vehicles Citroen Berlingo and Peugeot Partner, the Citroen C3 in the Mercosur bloc in South America and the Citroen C-Elysee in China.

Chief Financial Officer Isabel Marey-Semper told a conference call the group was maintaining its 2008 operating margin guidance of 3.5 percent, and that car inventories were up slightly because of pending launches.

Marey-Semper said the 3.5 percent operating margin target included 300 million euros in higher raw material prices such as steel.

The company's shares were down almost four percent at 44.42 euros at 1412 GMT after Marey-Semper highlighted the firm's vulnerability to the weaker pound sterling. The DJ Stoxx auto index was down 0.6 percent.

She said the group was hedged against unfavourable currency rates for the first half and had been looking since February for one to cover the second half.

A 1 percent swing in the euro/pound rate wipes off 35 million euros from full-year operating income.

"The first quarter is a clear indication to us that unit volumes, pricing and mix are all running better than expected," analysts at Morgan Stanley said.

"We believe this, combined with aggressive cost cutting, should be enough to keep the 3.5 percent operating margin target intact despite the weakening pound and more difficult trading environment in Western Europe."

PSA is the second-biggest carmaker in Europe behind Volkswagen AG (VOWG.DE: Quote, Profile, Research), which posted a 1.4 percent decline in first-quarter revenue but a better-than-expected 21 percent rise in operating profit.

Renault (RENA.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) on Monday reported a 4.2 percent rise in first-quarter sales, below analysts' expectations.

Fiat (FIA.MI: Quote, Profile, Research) on Thursday said its sales were up 8.4 percent in the quarter. (Reporting by Marcel Michelson; Editing by Louise Ireland/David Hulmes)


© Thomson Reuters 2008.

Because the time of the state monopolies is over.10-15 years ago the EU companies used to lick the asses of the communists in order somehow to get permission for building a plant in the ex-Warsaw pact countries and to use the extremely cheap labour force.However, few years later the old state-owned monopolies either got bankrupted, either got privatized.Since then the governments don`t need to subsidize them and that`s why there are no more restrictions for the foreign investors.On the other hand the Western companies realized that their money are from big importance for the developing countries and made them compete for the investments.
The manufacturer will build its plant in the country which offers the best subsidy(free land, tax preferences etc).

Sure...but they don't have to make this "beauty pageant" so public. They can negotiate with each government discretely and after they've made a decision, announce it.