A maritime end to France's motorway misery?

NANTES, France, June 8, 2006 (AFP) - This summer hundreds thousands of holidaymakers in France will once again spend a considerable chunk of their well earned breaks sitting in traffic jams on the country's motorways.

Like most of the developed world, France's motorway network suffers from serious traffic congestion and one of the main culprits is the ubiquitous heavy goods vehicle, or truck in every day parlance.

Almost everyone -- many truck drivers included -- agrees that there are too many lorries on today's motorways. Heavy trucks cause pollution, traffic jams and seriously increase wear and tear on already overloaded road networks.

But for users of at least part of the French motorway network, salvation could be at hand.

Port authorities in Nantes on France's Atlantic coast are putting the finishing touches to an ambitious plan they hope would see over a 1,000 lorries a day transferred from motorways to ships.

The project, called a "maritime motorway" or "seaway", would link the port of Montoir near Nantes with Bilbao on Spain's northern coast using a fleet of tailor made "truck ferries".

And if it gets the go-ahead from both the French and the European Union (EU) authorities, the link could be in operation as early as mid-2008.

"The idea is that the link should have all the characteristics of a terrestrial motorway," said Michel Quimbert, president of the Nantes-Saint-Nazaire port authority, which also runs the Montoir facility.

Under the scheme, truck drivers would turn up at a toll booth similar to those on normal motorways and pay a fee to use the seaway that was equivalent -- factoring in costs including toll fees, fuel and driver time lost through compulsory rest breaks -- to using the current highly congested route that links western France with Spain.

"No truck would have to wait more than six hours for a ferry and getting onto or off of a ship would be no more complicated than going through a motorway toll booth," said Quimbert.

The port official is convinced his seaway plan offers a credible, economically competitive alternative to truckers using the motorways running along France's Atlantic coast.

"The journey would take around 10 hours, which is comparable with the road journey. And during that time the drivers are resting, their trucks are not burning fuel, their trailers are not being worn out. It really is an attractive offer," he said.

Quimbert also argues his scheme, which would be mostly funded by private investors with some start-up help from the EU, presents major economic and environmental advantages for France.

The project is cheap compared to building more motorways, an ecologically unpopular solution sometimes cited as a means of reducing traffic congestion, although 1,000 trucks is only a fraction of the number plying the route daily.

Quimbert estimates his scheme would cost around 400 million euros (518 million dollars), essentially the price of building the tailor-made ships and upgrading port facilities in Montoir and Bilbao.

"That's about the same price as it costs to build one motorway tunnel and a few kilometres of road," he said. The Montoir-Bilbao link would replace a road journey of over 700 kilometres (450 miles).

"Road transport causes seven times more air pollution than shipping, so this option is good news for the environment," he insisted.

But some environmental experts are less convinced about the seaway's green credentials.

"It could be an environmentally friendly option, but only if a number of other issues are dealt with at the same time," argued Marcus Liechti, an expert on maritime transport with the Brussels-based lobby group Transport and Environment.

Liechti points out for example that marine diesel is currently exempted from EU fuel quality standards and is considerably more dirty than truck fuel.

He also says the seaway could cause environmental problems for the areas around the ports of Montoir and Bilbao.

"You'd need to upgrade roads in the hinterland around the ports to motorway standards in order to allow the trucks to get to the ships easily and that could cause problems for local residents," Liechti added.

On the question of road safety though, most experts seem to agree with Quimbert's view that the seaway would be good news for motorists.

"Anything that helps to reduce congestion on the roads certainly makes things easier, so we'd obviously be in favour of this kind of plan," a spokeswoman for French road safety campaigners 'Securite Routiere' told AFP.

If the Montoir seaway project gets the go-ahead, it will of course be Europe's truckers who finally decide if the scheme succeeds or fails.

Quimbert says trucking industry representatives are in principle in favour of the plan. "Congestion is also a huge problem for haulage firms. They do seem to understand that if the situation doesn't improve, it's their businesses on the line.

"What will make this project work is the realisation is that either you use the seaway or you go bust," he said.

Good new
In summer holiday French motorways was always congested.

The Autoroute system in France consists largely of toll roads, except around large cities. It is a network of 12,000 km (7,450 miles) worth of motorways. Autoroute destinations are shown in blue, while destinations reached through a combination of autoroutes are shown with an added autoroute logo. Toll autoroutes are signalled with the word péage.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Reseau_autoroutier_francais.svg/420px-Reseau_autoroutier_francais.svg.png
I have used some pics of Chris1491 .
http://tammuz.interinter.net/system/uploads/c/5/2ce3de0ad9043ea8e8ccb77fd6203b/large.jpg?1180466942
http://tammuz.interinter.net/system/uploads/1/6/ecda6b792fbb588566ed20c797a8b6/large.jpg?1180466789
http://tammuz.interinter.net/system/uploads/2/c/3db137e4bb77e056ee5a7270a9b67d/large.jpg?1180466931

If someone has a better map of french motorway system

The A75 Clermont-Ferrand - Béziers is one of the most scenic motorways i've ever seen!

A bigger map of the network:

Mooi schematisch kaartje:
http://users.fulladsl.be/spb10258/Kaartje%20Okt2006klein.JPG

Thank's :)

But it doesn't include motorway in Paris metro.

Looks nice and here i see that they they use the rougher asphalt with stones etc, when it rains they are shining, at least in Bulgaria this is the case.

French tolled Autoroutes are generally in excellent condition, but pavement on non-tollways, especially near border region can be poor, like the A2, A31 and A35.

But most parts of France are a bit boring to drive on, distances are so long. You see often places signed 400 - 600km away.

French tolled Autoroutes are generally in excellent condition, but pavement on non-tollways, especially near border region can be poor, like the A2, A31 and A35.

But most parts of France are a bit boring to drive on, distances are so long. You see often places signed 400 - 600km away.

Rough asphalt is not a sign of bad codition or quality roads, it just don´t look so well, anyway have you seen asphalt which when it rains looks like it has bright holes, i don´t know how to describe it well.

Well some non concession motorways are bumpy to drive on, because of the lack of funding for maintenance i think.

The best Asphalt is Dutch ZOAB (Very open Asphalt Concrete), with virtually no water splashing up, even in heavy rain. On ordinary concrete, you can't see a thing because of the rain splashing up.

Especially in Paris and Lyon metro.
The worst motorway of France is the A47 between Lyon and Saint Etienne.
The proof is that a second is project A45.

Even the A47 is better than most american interstate. ;)

Well some non concession motorways are bumpy to drive on, because of the lack of funding for maintenance i think.

The best Asphalt is Dutch ZOAB (Very open Asphalt Concrete), with virtually no water splashing up, even in heavy rain. On ordinary concrete, you can't see a thing because of the rain splashing up.

but they are not bumpy to drive on at all in Bulgaria, i am just wondering why they look strange when it´s raining, i have to show you a pic but i havn´t any pics on which ti can be seen.

but they are not bumpy to drive on at all in Bulgaria, i am just wondering why they look strange when it´s raining, i have to show you a pic but i havn´t any pics on which ti can be seen.
Would you stop this, please!

Would you stop this, please!

Yes, you are completely right, it doesn´t belong to this thread, i am sorry for hijacking the thread, i won´t talk about this in any other thread than bulgarian threads.

Sorry again.

Just to comment the map posted by vynkce, in green appear the toll autoroutes, in blue the free autoroutes (when marked with the letter 'A') and expressways (marked with the letter 'N').

but they are not bumpy to drive on at all in Bulgaria, i am just wondering why they look strange when it´s raining, i have to show you a pic but i havn´t any pics on which ti can be seen.

We're not talking about rough asphalt (which is ok), but crappy asphalt/pavement, whether rough or "mild/sweet/gentle/soft" (anyone knows a better expression?). Anyway, nothing beats crappy Italian toll-free expressways. :lol:

I like the roadnames in France too.

La Languedocienne
La Catalane
Autoroute du Soleil
etc etc.

Me too.
Autoroute des Anglais
Autoroute Blanche
Autoroute de Normandie
Autoroute Verte
Autoroute des Deux-Mers
Autoroute des Oiseaux
L'Occitane
la Meridienne
Autoroute du Nord

etc...

Just follow the link
http://fr.cars.yahoo.com/traficinfo/autoroutes.html

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/1904/parispz3.jpg

It is one of biggest in Europe.

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/9828/lyonmotorwaynw5.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/1904/parispz3.jpg

It is one of biggest in Europe.

And one of the worst connected too, if you asked me. Not enough lanes, for a city of 10 million i wouldn't say it's that big. Hope the A86 will be completed soon.

I drove through Paris a couple of times and always get stuck in a traffic jam on the A4/A86 section. I thought this was the busiest stretch in France.

However i used the A28 last time, avoiding Paris. The section Rouen - Tours is extremely quiet.

I agree and look at this map a traffic jam and really heavy traffic at 10 pm. ;)

I assume also completion of A104 is urgently needed.

A bigger map of the network:
http://users.fulladsl.be/spb10258/Kaartje%20Okt2006klein.JPG

Not all those roads marked blue are expressways... far from it. Most of those who aren't A-xx freeways are just regular roads(except in Bretagne).


http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/1904/parispz3.jpg

It is one of biggest in Europe.

And certainly one of the worst, for a city of it's size.



Well, that said, I must say that for me, French tolled motorways are still the best in Europe. Allways in excelent conditions! ;)

good map of France but uncomplete...

there's N137 between Rennes and St-malo opened in the beinning 90's, that isn't represented...

I've repaired this mistake :angel:

http://m1.freeshare.us/153fs927647.jpg

Ugh, French autoroute signs are a disaster...
Almost as much as America's.

Actually, I think that American guide signs are even better than the French ones. Using different colours and putting enough information on the guide signs is supposed to be helpful, but seems like the French traffic engineers just went over the head with this. Also, for some unknown reason they put "drive straight" and "No left turn" signs on the motorway and entrance ramps. Come on, no one would dare to drive against the traffic on the motorway and no one would even think of attempting a 90° left turn from the on-ramp :crazy2:

It can be worse

Motorway interchange
http://tammuz.interinter.net/system/uploads/2/4/dc4bb2ae7984e177aceca84bc71e6c/large.jpg?1180466961

But the worst is really in Paris metro
http://tammuz.interinter.net/system/uploads/8/a/b91fcec6e46a481eff5383ef03b360/large.jpg?1180466798
Welcome in the second beltway of Paris A86
http://tammuz.interinter.net/system/uploads/8/8/66688da979ae3cf841827411951ec4/large.jpg?1180466795
A4 and A86 common section, when two busy motorways are in the same section, it is the worst traffic jam in Europe, and over 300,000 car per day. :ohno:
http://tammuz.interinter.net/system/uploads/3/0/2d86e202b4a596b0f98f264bcfc84c/large.jpg?1180466795
http://tammuz.interinter.net/system/uploads/f/0/60de632b171fa46e021c74139ddc84/large.jpg?1180466794

Actually, I think that American guide signs are even better than the French ones. Using different colours and putting enough information on the guide signs is supposed to be helpful, but seems like the French traffic engineers just went over the head with this.

Actually it is really simple : blue = motorways/autoroutes ; green = expressways/nationales ; white = local roads.

When you're driving you immediatly know which sign you have to focus on.

Also, for some unknown reason they put "drive straight" and "No left turn" signs on the motorway and entrance ramps. Come on, no one would dare to drive against the traffic on the motorway and no one would even think of attempting a 90° left turn from the on-ramp :crazy2:

According to the number of car accidents you can read here and there, involving car drivers making a U-Turn or going reverse, then going on the entrance ramp wrong side, it's not obvious for everybody...

Not all those roads marked blue are expressways... far from it. Most of those who aren't A-xx freeways are just regular roads(except in Bretagne).

You really are exaggerating: the vast majority of the roads marked with the letter 'N' on this map (the Nationales, also marked in blue on the map) are actually expressways/dual carriageways (2x2 lanes at least) with only a few sections not yet complete that remain normal roads.

The difference between blue vs green roads on this map is free vs tolled roads.

green = expressways/nationales

That's not entirely true. As far as i know, green signs point to the nearest cities of importance, which don't have to go via Route Nationales per se.

^ no, this is right, green = nationales, this is what we learn to have the right to drive

^ Yeah but they are renumbering a whole lot of RN's to Route Départementales. That would make the green signs useless if they are only allowed to sign RN destinations.

You really are exaggerating: the vast majority of the roads marked with the letter 'N' on this map (the Nationales, also marked in blue on the map) are actually expressways/dual carriageways (2x2 lanes at least) with only a few sections not yet complete that remain normal roads.

The difference between blue vs green roads on this map is free vs tolled roads.



Really?... Well... let's start for example in the southwesternmost corner of France:
-The road from Pau to the spanish border is just a crappy road... certainly not an expressways.
-The road from Tarbes to Auch and Agen is just a regular road, not expressway
-The road from Bordeux to Auch and Toulouse is just a regular road, not expressway, with some short 2x2 sections.
-The road from Foix to Perpignan is just a regular road, not expressway, with some short 2x2 sections. Only the stretch near Perpignan is an expressway


... And I could go on and on...

As for the signage on french autoroutes, it may not be the best in the world, but it certainly isn't the worst, and it's MUCH better than american signage, from what I see in the photo's of american freeways.

A good signage is alot more than just putting all the signs in the same signs (which is the main critic of the frenchs system in here).


This is the opinion of someone who has driven many thousands of km's on French autoroutes and never had problems with the signage.

answer
You really are exaggerating: the vast majority of the roads marked with the letter 'N' on this map (the Nationales, also marked in blue on the map) are actually expressways/dual carriageways (2x2 lanes at least) with only a few sections not yet complete that remain normal roads.

He didn't say all, he said the vast majority. :D

Signage in France is okay. I drove thousands of km's too, but only near cities, they sign too much destinations.

However the system is clear, but not very esthetic like Germany or The Netherlands.

A good signage is alot more than just putting all the signs in the same signs (which is the main critic of the frenchs system in here).

The main problem abou French signage is that there are too many informations.
"Too much information kill information".
I think that US system (the number of motorway and the cardinal direction) is enough: if you are in Auxerre, you should take "A6-Nord" to drive to Paris and "A6-Sud" to go to Lyon).

^ no, this is right, green = nationales, this is what we learn to have the right to drive
Wrong: Green sign = major cities that are written in green box on Michelin's maps.

Do you know the The fourth beltway of Paris.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/ParisRingRoads_GC.svg/350px-ParisRingRoads_GC.svg.png

I don't think you can count the A28 or A26 to the Paris beltway, they are like 100 or more kilometers away from the city.

By the way, i just calculated i drove 39,85% of the French Autoroutes :lol:

I think the french motorways are really good. i like the way they blend into the landscape, for example the A20 crossing the Lot near Cahors(sorry can't find a picture).
A downside is that sometimes it is a very long ride to get to the motorway in some areas and that most roads run north-south and not east-west.

for example the A20 crossing the Lot near Cahors(sorry can't find a picture).


http://tammuz.interinter.net/system/uploads/a/7/5fa25e7a916bc88e1e23381789b162/medium.jpg?1179828871

I love French motorways, they are great, but rare exits bother me, and a quite 'old-looking' fonts on signs (or it's b/c of "R" :lol:). Why don't signs shine, like e.g. in the Netherlands; signs not shining look old to me. :(

Otherwise cheers to the fabulous French motorways! :cheers:


Oh, and I don't like the 'nationalistic' signage either. :D

Really?... Well... let's start for example in the southwesternmost corner of France:
-The road from Pau to the spanish border is just a crappy road... certainly not an expressways.
-The road from Tarbes to Auch and Agen is just a regular road, not expressway
-The road from Bordeux to Auch and Toulouse is just a regular road, not expressway, with some short 2x2 sections.
-The road from Foix to Perpignan is just a regular road, not expressway, with some short 2x2 sections. Only the stretch near Perpignan is an expressway


... And I could go on and on...

I said that the vast majority were, not all.

And you know as I do that the southwesternmost corner of France is not really representative of what the french motorways/expressways network actually is: 2 out of your 4 examples are mountain roads in the Pyrénées..., the 2 other ones are roads crossing a département - the Gers - which not only being one of the least populated in France (a rural desert in other words) is under an order ("arrêté préfectoral") which forbids expressways on its territory (for natural preservation)...

Anyway this map has been made by a foreign forumer, nothing official.

Oh, and I don't like the 'nationalistic' signage either. :D

What do you mean by that?

^ Signs showing just Milan, Turin, Barcelonne (the spelling?), Saarbruck, Bâle (here I think there's also Basel in brackets) etc., like Belgium usually.

I said that the vast majority were, not all.

And you know as I do that the southwesternmost corner of France is not really representative of what the french motorways/expressways network actually is: 2 out of your 4 examples are mountain roads in the Pyrénées..., the 2 other ones are roads crossing a département - the Gers - which not only being one of the least populated in France (a rural desert in other words) is under an order ("arrêté préfectoral") which forbids expressways on its territory (for natural preservation)...

Anyway this map has been made by a foreign forumer, nothing official.


Yes, ok. It's not a big deal. I just wanted to point out that many of those blue routes aren't expressways.
And even major roads like N-10 just have some sections with 2x2 intercalated by regular road sections. It's messy and only some of the 2x2 (I would say not the majority, based on viamichelin maps) are up to motorway standards.

But, as I've also refered, in Bretagne for example, all (or almost all) of the blue routes are expressways with motorway standards, so in that case, they work just like autoroutes, but with a diferent name. Like that section of N-10 in between Bordeux and Biarritz, were there's no paralel autoroute.

I don't think you can count the A28 or A26 to the Paris beltway, they are like 100 or more kilometers away from the city.

By the way, i just calculated i drove 39,85% of the French Autoroutes :lol:

Yes but these motorway was built for that's it is the "Grand Contournement de Paris". :lol:
________________________________________________________________

If you like that. The french sign in Paris metro :lol:

http://autorout.free.fr/2_Pdf/images/photo_index2.jpg

I used the A28 last year to avoid Paris. A bit longer but much faster. It's a shame that there ain't a good bypass near Paris, in particular a tollroad with only 3 exits near Paris or so. So through traffic can use the tollway, and local traffic uses the A3/A86/A4 etc.

It is a shame, exept if you like traffic jam. :lol:

Yeah... I'd say that from all the big cities in europe, Paris is in the top of those you want to avoid in a long trip.
Exactly because it's very difficult to avoid gettin on the peripherique. There are just some confusing stretches of motorway around Paris, but the peripherique is the only complete expressway around Paris. And for using the other(many but baddly connected) stretcher of motorways around Paris you've got to know them, because the signaling doesn't help. For example, if you come from the south, in the A-10 and want to go to the north to the A-1, the signing you send you through the peripherique, although it would be possible to avoid it using several diferent freeways... it's just too confusing.

^^ That's wrong!

From the A10, you see Lille signed all the way to the A1! Southbound, you see Nantes-Lyon-Bordeaux signed all the way to the A6/A10!

You are send via the A3/A86/A4/A86 connection.

This is the incredible plan for freeway and motorway for Paris in the 1970's

Paris region
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8673/162xr8.gif

red : Motorway built
dark purple : deleted
green : renamed project
orange : plan Pompidou (freeway in the center of Paris) deleted
light purple : freeways built
brown : project approved.

plan Pompidou for inner Paris

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5830/80hw0.jpg

Double blue line : freeway. (6 at 8 lanes)
Dark blue line : avenue, boulevard without intersection or single way freeway for the Seine banks.
light blue line : avenue or boulevard with underground passage.
blue circle : interchange

^^ That's wrong!

From the A10, you see Lille signed all the way to the A1! Southbound, you see Nantes-Lyon-Bordeaux signed all the way to the A6/A10!

You are send via the A3/A86/A4/A86 connection.

That's good news!

Last time I passed in Paris I had to went to the peripherique, but that was some years ago.

I can show some pics from autoroutes.free.fr

on the A10 heading for Paris:

http://franceautoroutes.free.fr/photos/a10/A10-005-B.jpg

Near the Boulevard Périphérique.
http://franceautoroutes.free.fr/photos/a6/A6-001-B.jpg

Soutbound, Bordeaux-Nantes-Lyon is signed all the time.
http://franceautoroutes.free.fr/photos/a1/A1-012-B.jpg

Maybe it's different on the BP, never been there.

Maybe it's different on the BP, never been there.You haven't been on the Boulevard Périphérique yet?! :eek: Considering you're a freeway fanatic, that's a crime! :D

If i was a real fanatic, i should be around Madrid too. (never been there). That's the ultimate mecca for drivers in Europe. They have like 5 beltways, and the biggest urban freeway system in Europe. Now that's hot ;)

That's good news!

Last time I passed in Paris I had to went to the peripherique, but that was some years ago.

Here's some tip for you next time you coming here :

on the autoroutes around Paris, the road signs have different levels of reading, the upper sign always indicates the main direction (cardinal points) as following : LILLE = North (by A1) / METZ - NANCY = East ( by A4) / BORDEAUX - NANTES - LYON = South (by A5, A6, A10) / ROUEN = West (by A13)

The lower sign indicates from top to bottom :
- the main points of reference of Paris area (which are Marne-la-Vallée, Fontenay, Bobigny for the East : Créteil, Evry for the South ; Versailles, Nanterre for the West ; Cergy-Pontoise, St Denis, Sarcelles for the North ; and of course Paris for the centre)
- and then the local exits.

On a picture taken from above I have highlighted the 3 levels of reference:
- national (cardinal points)
- Paris area
- local (next exit)
(that's generality of course, some signs at the crossing of several highways/expressways are really a mess)

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/756/a1012bew0.jpg

Once you know that you should be able to avoid the Périphérique and take the right road ;)

^^Thank's for the excelent explanation! :okay:

This summer I'm travelling from the south (A10) to Calais, and back, but I'il avoid Paris by using the A28. :) It's an excelet bypass, I just don't understand why it doesn't bypass Rouen.. I'il have to go through it using an avenue, from what I see in the maps.

Anyway, next year I'm going to spend a semester (2nd semester of 07/08) studying in Paris, so I should get to know the motorway system. :)

Rouen is okay to drive through, i did so last year. You have a short section which is a boulevard with traffic lights, and you have to pay attention to the signs.

The A28 to Calais is much shorter than via Paris anyway. Take a good look on the A28 if you like sports cars, a lot of rich (or pretend-rich) British people like to take a trip there.

Rouen is okay to drive through, i did so last year. You have a short section which is a boulevard with traffic lights, and you have to pay attention to the signs.

If you travel on North-South axis, it's better to avoid Paris by using A26 or A28.
You have to drive through Rouen or Reims but there are projects to change it.

A26 is one of the most boring Autoroutes by the way, but a fast connection, with more British people than French dudes on the road.

Take a good look on the A28 if you like sports cars, a lot of rich (or pretend-rich) British people like to take a trip there.


I'il check that out. :D

It is why the motorway is called "Autoroute des Anglais" Motorway of english.

It is why the motorway is called "Autoroute des Anglais" Motorway of english.
Wrong: Autoroute des Anglais is A26. A28 has no name for the moment: Autoroute des Estuaires use partially A28 between Abbeville and Rouen.

I think he means A26, because we were talking about the A26 earlier. :)

:banana:

The French government will extend the A34 (Reims - Charleville-Mézières) to the Belgium border south of Charleroi! It will cost 330 million euro's.
Works will begin this fall and should be completed somewhere 2011.
:cheers:

^^Goods news.
Are the belguium planning on building a motorway on their side of the border too?

Yes, an A5 is planned from Charleroi to Rocroi.

They will start construction in 2008 to 2012.

http://users.fulladsl.be/spb10258/E420%20couvin.JPG
It is one of the most quiet motorways i've ever seen.

The A4 in Paris
http://irgendwo.free.fr/est/16.jpg
http://irgendwo.free.fr/est/18.jpg

The peripherique (inner Paris beltway)
http://irgendwo.free.fr/est2/23.jpg
http://irgendwo.free.fr/est2/24.jpg

I like those minute signs. You see a lot of VMS in France.

Yes I like it too, 8 minutes for go at Porte de Bercy the traffic is heavy but fluid.

The A4 motorway is really scenic at the entrance in Paris you see, subway bridge, railway bridge, ugly high rises blocks, modern offices buildings, and many u/c buildings.

An other scenic freeway in Paris is the N118, you take it at the A86 N118exchange in Velizy and some kilometers farther you see a beautiful view of la Defense.
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4303/cp47491qg4.jpg

Is that near the A14 interchange?

Not really since it is in the other side of the A86 motorway, and the tunnel is not opened yet. so the better for go here it's to take the A6 motorways change for the A86 motorway in the direction of Versailles and at Velizy you will see a big freeway interchange, to the N118 to Porte de St Cloud, but in fact the freeway stop at the bridge in the Seine, the section in Boulogne Billancourt to Porte de St Cloud is a big boulevard. it is like the end of the A14 and the boulevard in Neuilly

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/1904/parispz3.jpg

Black saturday tomorrow. It will be busy.

A more detailled map of Paris motorways and freeways.
I know a worse system for a big city, the one of London.

http://mapage.noos.fr/marla13/paris_transport/carte5.jpg

Time for some pics :cheers:

A2 - A23 - A1 - A27

E19/A2 (B) - Valenciennes - Lille - Aéroport - A27/E429 (B)

84 pics, Picasa webalbum (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris/FranceA2A23A27)

http://i13.tinypic.com/525sr9u.png

enjoy :cheers:

Thanks :)

How is Lille freeway systems ?
A signifiant part is in Belgium

Lille A25 is said to be horrible towards Dunkerque. The A22 has some old signage, aswell as the A27 and A23 as can be seen in the pics.
The A1 is okay, mostly busy, but okay. The N356 is a fast connection.

If you follow the signs Gand (Gent) you are being directed eastwards around Lille via Tournai and Kortrijk (Courtrai). But when you follow Lille N356/A22 you're usually faster outside rushhours.

Today is the first black saturday. It's now already very busy on the road to southern France:

A7 between Chanas and Loriol 69km traffic jam
between Montélimar-Nord and Bollène 36km traffic jam
A9 between Gallargues and Sète 49km traffic jam
between Perpignan-Nord and Spanish border 40km traffic jam
A71 between Montmarault and Clermont-Fd-Est 70km traffic jam

delays in individual traffic jams over 1 hr. Other Autoroutes are packed aswell.

The traffic in Paris was horrible.

Yeah, i got a SMS from my friend who was in traffic jam in Paris... at 2:30 am!

I have a question:

I've been told that the "Lille", "Strasbourg", "Lyon", "Bordeaux", etc. signages on the Périphérique have been replaced by "A1", "A3"... signages.

Is that true? I suppose it is. Why? Do you have any pics? :D

Do you know the The fourth beltway of Paris.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/99/ParisRingRoads_GC.svg/350px-ParisRingRoads_GC.svg.png

lol, this circular motorway has no real metropolitan use for the Paris region.
It's just a way to detour Paris for both provincial and foreign travellers.

But may be it will behave like a metropolitan belt in the future.

It was just a joke :lol:

Longest traffic jam now in France:
A7 Lyon -> Marseille
between Condrieu and Bollène 163km jammed.

Wow Holiday... Holiday = huge traffic jam. :lol:

Today around noon :

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1436/864038606_2f3ecf0134_o.png

^^ I guess red means jammed.
What means grey/green?

green = free flow
grey = no data

green = free flow
grey = no data
Grey are free motorway and your map is given by operators of toll motorways.

Jup so they have no data of it ;)

Any chance of a extension of the french A66 towards spains C-16? It could be very useful for through traffic, especially in the summer. It would be very expensive though.

^^No... don't think so.
It would have to cross the pirenees, so besides the high cost you would porbably have an unnaceptable environmental impact.

^^ They should widen the AP7/A9 to at least 2x3 lanes all the way, and remove the stupid border station, causes too many traffic jams.

^^They are going to do that soon (there's already a project but I think the works haven't started yet.
The AP-7 will become 2x3 all the way from Tarragona till the border, with 2x4 in the Girona bypass (which will be free of charge).

I hope the french also widen the A-9 from Perpignan to the border! And the removal of the border station would be great too.

Also, on the spanish side they are building the A-2 paralel to the AP-7 (from the end of the C-32 till at least Figueres... I don't know what are they going to do at the border).
It will be a nice and modern freeway, although it will have a design speed of 100km/h, which is compreensible (not using a 120km/h design speed), because there's already a parallel toll motorway. Still, that doesn't mean it will be limited to 100. It just means that there can be som stretches limited to 100. Which isn't too important for the regular user.
And almost all the trucks will use it instead of the AP-7 for sure.

And almost all the trucks will use it instead of the AP-7 for sure.

Yeah as said, i drove the A2 once from Lleida eastward. Incredible amount of trucks, but almost no trucks on the AP2 in the same direction.

^^Yeah. And this future stretch of the A-2 (from the C-32 to the border) will be much better than the old stretch of the A-2 between Lleida and Barcelona, so it will only help.

The most black saturday is tomorrow. Expect hundreds of kilometers of traffic jams, on all routes to the south.

Especially the A6 from Paris to Lyon, the A7 Lyon to Orange, the A8 Aix-en-Pce to Nice, the A9 Orange to Perpignan, the A10 from Paris to Bordeaux, the A40 from Mâcon to Chamonix, the A41, A42, A43, A48 in the Alps, the A46 ringroad of Lyon, A61 from Toulouse to Narbonne, the A62 from Bordeaux to Toulouse, the A64 from Toulouse to Tarbes, the A71 for Clermont-Ferrand, A72 near St.Étienne, A75 near Béziers etc.

Traffic jams will start before sunrise and last till sunset.

Traffic will be bad in Spain, Germany, Switzerland and Austria too. Expect at least 2 - 4 hours waiting time before you can enter several tunnels in the Alps.

So, you'd better don't hit the road at all tomorrow.

^^They are going to do that soon (there's already a project but I think the works haven't started yet.
The AP-7 will become 2x3 all the way from Tarragona till the border, with 2x4 in the Girona bypass (which will be free of charge).

I hope the french also widen the A-9 from Perpignan to the border! And the removal of the border station would be great too.

Isn't 2x4 a bit exaggerated for Girona bypass?

If they widen the A-9 from Perpignan to the border and the AP-7 till Tarragona you would have 2x3 from Lyon until Tarragona, right?

The AP-7 will become 2x3 all the way from Tarragona till the border, with 2x4 in the Girona bypass (which will be free of charge).


khm, more toll boots there... i don't like that idea. (bte i like extending it to 2x3 and 2x4)

Isn't 2x4 a bit exaggerated for Girona bypass?

Well, remember it will accumulate the trafic of AP-7 plus the traffic of N-II(A-2), and will be free of charge. So it seems like a good idea to be wider than the rest of the AP-7 to me.


If they widen the A-9 from Perpignan to the border and the AP-7 till Tarragona you would have 2x3 from Lyon until Tarragona, right?

Well, no, because the A-9 stretch from the A-8 untill Nimes is just 2x2 at the moment. But maybe they willl widen it to 2x3 by the time all of this is done...

^^Actually the 2x3 starts before Nimes, but I think there are still some 30km's or so that are 2x2.

A9 from Perpignan to the Spanish border is also only 2x2 lanes. And so it the A9 between Orange and Nîmes. But against this massive holiday traffic, even 2x5 lanes won't work, it all gets stuck at the toll gates.

Especially near Perpignan, first you have a toll station, then the road narrows to 2x2 lanes, then a climb (slow trucks) and finally on the border, still a 10km/h limit on the low pass. Old customs houses are still in place there too.

But the biggest problems are on the A7 between Vienne and Orange. It's always busy, and a lot of trucks there, not only north-south, but also a lot of traffic from Central Europe to Spain/Southern France takes that route.
However, there are plans to widen the A7 to 2x5 lanes all the way from Givors to Orange, or an alternative is to build a parallel motorway all the way from Vienne to Béziers on the A9. That is about 300km.

A9 from Perpignan to the Spanish border is also only 2x2 lanes.

I know, but what he ask me was assuming that would be widened to 2x3 too.


But the biggest problems are on the A7 between Vienne and Orange. It's always busy, and a lot of trucks there, not only north-south, but also a lot of traffic from Central Europe to Spain/Southern France takes that route.
However, there are plans to widen the A7 to 2x5 lanes all the way from Givors to Orange, or an alternative is to build a parallel motorway all the way from Vienne to Béziers on the A9. That is about 300km.


That would be very cool. The first 2x5 in France, and probably one of the longest 2x5 stretches in the world.
As that motorway has the exits far apart, I think 5 lanes to each direction would be feasible and wouldn't create too much confusion, so I say: "Go on and build the damn thing!". :D

There are already some 5 lane stretches in France; on the A7 northward near Orange and on the A6 southbound near Beaune.

However they are marked as normal lanes, they could be considered merging lanes, since it is the exact amount of lanes coming together there (2 from A9, 3 from A7), which have to merge on the 3 lanes to Valence/Lyon.

And the A4 is also 2x5 but it is in Paris. :D

^^Arg! But that's urban, so I'm not considering it! :colgate:

However they are marked as normal lanes, they could be considered merging lanes, since it is the exact amount of lanes coming together there (2 from A9, 3 from A7), which have to merge on the 3 lanes to Valence/Lyon.

Exactly, so that doesn't count.

Busy again

On the A7 164km of traffic jam between Condrieu and Bollène

On the A9 140km of traffic jam between Nîmes-Est and Narbonne-Est

So paris to has an orbital motorway just like our M25 motorway around london.I like paris never been but like it

^^ Paris has actually 3 ringroads, but none of them are completely build or up to motorwaystandards, and none of them is as big as the M25 motorway. \

The first is the Boulevard Péripherique. It doesn't have a number, but in encircles the city proper of Paris. It is 35km long, and has a lot of exits, usually no further than 1 km apart.

The second ring is the A86, which isn't complete, and not all the way an Autoroute. It has a section missing between Versailles and Rueil-Malmaison. This ringroad is 73km long today.

The outter ringroad is the N104, an circular road which goes from Pontoise to Janvry, with a whole section missing on the westside of Paris. This road is not completely up to motorway standards, and only a section between the A1 and A4 on the eastside of Paris is signed as a real motorway. The N104/A104 is 117km long.

There aren't good alternatives to go wider around Paris. Because of the radial system around Paris, the next north-south route is the A26, which is 140km to the east at its closest.
The problem in Paris is, that through traffic takes the A3/A86/A4/A86 route or the A1/BP/A6 route, so it conflicts with local traffic.

^^ Chris you previously showed you knew quite well the french road network, but I have to correct some things. First of all :
Paris has actually 3 ringroads, but none of them are completely build or up to motorwaystandards

The 'Périphérique' is complete, as you mentioned it is a 35 km ring road, even if it has a particular status, but that's administrative lingo and surely doesn't take away anything to its freeway function.

By your presentation it sounds like A86 and 'Francilienne' (A104) were freeways on some parts, and on other parts not, while they are actually 100% freeways no matter if some sections are called 'N' (N186 and N104) instead of 'A', that's administrative lingo again.

Anyway the A86 loop is going to be complete by 2010, the last missing section is currently under construction - a 10 km tunnel. Total length will then be 87 km.

The 'Francilienne' should be extended to some more 25 km in the West (between A15 and A13), but that should be it, so it probably would never make a full ring, but instead a horseshoe-like road of 154 km.

The map (as of today):
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/2389/400pxparisringroadsa104qh4.png
in yellow, the 'Périphérique',
in red, A86 (dots show the section u/c),
in green, the 'Francilienne',
in blue, radial highways/freeways.

I was stuck at the France/Spain border for 3 hours to pay 1€ each side of the border...

I think the French motorway tolling system is set up in a very unfortunate way - for us, that is. You have to stop and pay every 60 km or so, on average (at least that's what I'm guessing), when coming from Genova and going to Spain. IMO it is a disaster compared to the quite efficient Italian fully-"closed" one.

In Italy, you can go all the way from any border to another with stopping to pay and/or get a ticket ONLY when passing near large cities (as those motorway sections service local traffic as well and are consequently toll-free).

^^ That's not very true, if i drive to southern France, i get on the tollway near Toul, and i only have to pay tolls near Lyon. That's a few hundred kilometers.

that's because of ununited concessions i think. it's true that you have quite often toll stations while driving at A8: first one after exit 56 to Monte Carlo, then after exit to Nice Airport, 3rd near Antibes -> all are open styled. near Frejus you have one more, but it is close styled, so you tkat a ticket which lasts till Aix en Prov.
At Lançon you takt new one and you're paying very soon before Arles because there is end of motorway (and beginning od N113 expressway). After Arles ticket again and soon paying, after Nîmes. And then after Montpellier you takt a ticket that you can drive long route with - to Spanish border.
so, that's 11 stops -> quite much. fortunately, it's only in south France

Montpellier will get new bypass so those 2 toll stations will be bypassed, too

^^ That's not very true, if i drive to southern France, i get on the tollway near Toul, and i only have to pay tolls near Lyon. That's a few hundred kilometers.

Thank God, I thought it was like this everywhere in France :nuts: .

Thank God, I thought it was like this everywhere in France :nuts: .
It is especially true in urban areas (on the Riviera for instance) but outside those, on the whole you can drive hundreds of km without being annoyed by recurrent barriers. The famous exception is motorway A13 in Normandy.

What is the longest section you can drive without getting through toll boots?

Paris - Lyon or Reims - Lyon?

What is the longest section you can drive without getting through toll boots?

Paris - Lyon or Reims - Lyon?

i think that the longest would be if you take A4 from Reims, A26 at Chalons, A5 at Troyes, A31 at Langres, A39 at Dijon, A40 at Bourg en Bresse and take direction Geneve - you have toll barrier at Valleiry about 10 km before junction to Geneve. of yourse, it could be longer, but i'm considering only about logical routes without unneccessarly circulating

^^ yes I think that is the longest :yes:

Here's a schematic map I made of the Lille Metropolitan Area's (Aire Metropolitaine de Lille) highway network :

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/908/autoroutesamllh0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It represents roads at least 2x2.

The Lille Métropole proper part is inside the circle Armentières-Wervik-Menen-Mouscron-Templeuve-Seclin.

Green=free
Blue=toll

Lille A25 is said to be horrible towards Dunkerque.

It is !
From the spot where the A22 and the A1 merge towards the Lille city misery begins.
The A1 splits up in 2 : the A25 westward towards Dunkerque and the N356 northbound Roubaix/Kortrijk.
The A25 is a kind of Lille phéripherique and is way to small until it reaches the N352 near Englos.
Traffic continues to be a real nightmare until Armentières.
After Bailleul the A25 is ok

The A25 is being re-built, but it takes a really long time!... The main problem is the coating that was used in the first place, it's made of concrete plates which is terrible!
I don't think it's too small though, when being used as a peripherique it is a 2x3/2x4 ways.
The region is building a big P+R at Armentières' train station, I hope it'll help decongestion it.

I have found some pics i've made during my vacation 2 years ago, We drove from Biarritz via Andorra towards Barcelona

The A64 somewhere near Lannemezan:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9206/p8110123pp0.jpg

D117, somewhere near Saint-Girons:

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9440/p8110126nz1.jpg

D117, near Foix:

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6918/p8110128qm1.jpg

N20, Pas de la Casa, just before the border with Andorra. After that we took the tunnel:) Enough climbing for one day. Look at the snail, going where no other snail has gone

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/992/p8110139lh4.jpg

After spain we returned to the Pyrenees by following the N116 from Perpignan

N116, near Prades, this road is very busy, there was a traffic jam all the time at the passage through marquixanes.

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9673/p8150221jo5.jpg

And this beautiful view on Mt.Canigou do you get when you leave the N116 and take the road to Espira de Conflent:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/7082/p8150224aj2.jpg

I have tons of pics.

A2 Belgium - Valenciennes
A4 Reims - Paris
A6 Lyon - Avallon
A7 Orange - Lyon
A9 Spain - Orange
A20 Vierzon - Montauban
A26 Troyes - Lille
A28 Rouen - Tours
A62 Montauban - Toulouse
A64 Toulouse - Lannemezan

I have tons of pics.

A2 Belgium - Valenciennes
A4 Reims - Paris
A6 Lyon - Avallon
A7 Orange - Lyon
A9 Spain - Orange
A20 Vierzon - Montauban
A26 Troyes - Lille
A28 Rouen - Tours
A62 Montauban - Toulouse
A64 Toulouse - Lannemezan

Hi everybody,

I am a member of this web site : http://wikisara.free.fr and we seek photographies of French roads or motorway to illustrate some articles.

So I will very interested by your photos Chris1491 !
Thank you every body

http://tammuz.interinter.net/countries/f/galleries

You can find my French pics here.

http://tammuz.interinter.net/countries/f/galleries

You can find my French pics here.

Ok !

I will copie the link of these page in order to add these in our website.

Peripherique Paris

picture by Avialle (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72341818@N00/220254893/)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/62/220254893_c067b83f48_b.jpg

picture by choudoudou (http://www.flickr.com/photos/100581/69430733/)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/18/69430733_cd3269fe72_o.jpg

Peripherique Paris

picture by Avialle (http://www.flickr.com/photos/72341818@N00/220254893/)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/62/220254893_c067b83f48_b.jpg

La voie express fantôme? :lol:

Really a curious HDR. You can see cars twice or even three times (yes, I know, bracketing). :D

Talking about the BP, there are many problems due to the lack of emergency lanes?

Emergency/bus lane trial underway

Technology from French firm Egis is forming the backbone for a new smart lane trial now operating in the city of Grenoble. The system allows buses to use the emergency lane at peak periods in the morning, when congestion is heavy and frequently brings traffic to a halt on the busy A48 highway into Grenoble. Business development manager at Egis Mobilité Fabien Dreveton explained that the system operates along a 5km stretch of the highway and uses technology to monitor traffic load and speed. When the speed of the traffic in the normal lanes drops lower than 50km/h, the system allows buses to move over into the emergency lane and travel at 50km/h. Should the speed of the traffic in the normal lanes drop below 30km/h or grind to a halt completely, the buses and coaches are speed restricted to 30km/h. The lane is controlled by a bank of cameras and VMS equipment and while Dreveton admits that the equipment and modifications needed are not inexpensive to install, the benefits to traffic flow (with the knock-on economic advantages these offer) can be substantial.

Entry points to the highway have been modified to give the buses priority, with lights to halt other traffic while other safety measures include additional emergency parking areas. This Government-backed trial may be extended to other cities such as Paris where traffic congestion is a problem, should it prove successful. Other possibilities for future applications of the system would be to allow trucks, taxis, high occupancy vehicles or motorcycles to use the emergency lane but for the purposes of this trial the system has been limited to buses and coaches only.


http://www.itsinternational.com/news/article.cfm?recordID=11776

http://www.transisere.fr/doc_actu/VSP_2007_recto_3_low.jpg

http://www.transisere.fr/doc_actu/VSP_2007_verso_2_low.jpg

http://www.transisere.fr/


The A48 just before the "VSP" (Shared Specialized Lane):
http://sniavlys.free.fr/images_web/A48-VSP-bouchon.jpg


More photos:
http://jeblanchard.free.fr/voiebusA48/voiebusA48.html

I saw something like that on a Paris region highway (on the Paris->Bordeaux I think), at a point you can see a bus station at highway level, passengers proceed to the station via a bridge over the highway and go down to the road level.
I wonder if it was already in service though.

I saw something like that on a Paris region highway (on the Paris->Bordeaux I think), at a point you can see a bus station at highway level, passengers proceed to the station via a bridge over the highway and go down to the road level.
No, it's not the same thing.
Near Grenoble the buses/coaches run on the emmergency lane but there is no stop on the highway.
Near Paris the buses/coaches run on the regular lanes but there is a stop on the highway.

http://www.essonne.fr/ville_logement_deplacements/actualites/visualiser/formule_gagnante/

Was in France a few weeks ago and travelled on the A40 from Cluses to Chamonix-Mont-Blanc and back.

Officially, the A40 ends just before the road heads up into the mountain, only because the road is not motorway quality. The road is infact dual up to the Mont Blanc tunnel, save for a small bit of S2 near Chamonix that is being upgraded.

Travelling along the A40 towards Chamonix -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6075.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6076.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6077.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6078.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6079.jpg



At one point, just at the end of the A40, the road bears left and must travel up into a valley.

Going uphill is fine, you go up this very impressive and quite new viaduct (wonder if anyone on here has more info about it??).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6080.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6081.jpg

Impressive view of Mont Blanc at the top -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6084.jpg



Coming down is another story. The viaduct is D2, and only carries uphill traffic. From what I can gather, the old road (both sides of it) is used as the downhill way. This leads to a downright dangerous (with a low speed limit) windy D2. Its quite an experience to drive it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6234.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6235.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6237.jpg

Best shown in a video, you can see the uphill traffic on the viaduct too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoKi_kHaLSo

Then the road runs directly into the A40 "Autoroute Blanche" which takes us back to Cluses (and further). No wonder its not labelled A40 up to Chamonix!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6242.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/IMG_6243.jpg

^^ Thanks for those fabulous photos! Wow, you were so lucky you had good weather! I've been there last summer, it is tied for 1st place among my list of the most beautiful valleys in Europe. I think the Mont Blanc is the only thing in Western Europe that's comparable to what you might see in the Himalayas.

Actually, the road is 2x2 (voie exprès) only until the outskirts of Chamonix, it's a normal 2-lane road from there all the way up to the tunnel. Quite a climb (from trucks' perspective) and it's also got some hairpin turns.

Thanks :)

Viaduc des Egratz is the name of the viaduct if ye want to look it up more.

^^ Thanks for those fabulous photos! Wow, you were so lucky you had good weather! I've been there last summer, it is tied for 1st place among my list of the most beautiful valleys in Europe. I think the Mont Blanc is the only thing in Western Europe that's comparable to what you might see in the Himalayas.

Actually, the road is 2x2 (voie exprès) only until the outskirts of Chamonix, it's a normal 2-lane road from there all the way up to the tunnel. Quite a climb (from trucks' perspective) and it's also got some hairpin turns.

Maybe Qyqtor, but you don´t have to go so far, I´ll show you new pics of the Rila mountain, they are not like Hymalaya but they are like some Canadian rockwalls, I went there this weekend and took very beautiful photos. there are aktually very steep peaks with big rocks and walls.

^^ I'm planning to go to Rila next year or in 2009, I've never seen it and the road to my favorite Romanian resort Busteni has become clogged with trucks. Also, from my location, it is the nearest mountain nearing 3000 m.

And now I can take a shortcut through Serbia, on the nice and quite comfortable Autoput Beograd - Nis, they eliminated the visas for us!

But even though I'm sure Rila is very beautiful, I still think Mont Blanc is unique for Europe. I was really impressed by the scale of the mountains near the Chamonix valley, my neck was starting to hurt from looking upwards - from some viewpoints you really have to stretch it in order to see the summits :D ! The camera can't fully capture the beauty and scale, you have to go there to experience it! ;)

^^ I'm planning to go to Rila next year or in 2009, I've never seen it and the road to my favorite Romanian resort Busteni has become clogged with trucks. Also, from my location, it is the nearest mountain nearing 3000 m.

And now I can take a shortcut through Serbia, on the nice and quite comfortable Autoput Beograd - Nis, they eliminated the visas for us!

But even though I'm sure Rila is very beautiful, I still think Mont Blanc is unique for Europe. I was really impressed by the scale of the mountains near the Chamonix valley, my neck was starting to hurt from looking upwards - from some viewpoints you really have to stretch it in order to see the summits :D ! The camera can't fully capture the beauty and scale, you have to go there to experience it! ;)

I doubt I will go and visit it soon since I don´t have much money to go in this expensive region. Anyway I don´t want compare Rila with the Alps but I can tell ya that if you go close to the slopes and are more inside the mountain where the valleys got deep already you always have to look upwords always on every slope, not to talk if you go close to the rockwalls, why don´t you check out my thread in the eastern europe section?

La voie express fantôme? :lol:

Really a curious HDR. You can see cars twice or even three times (yes, I know, bracketing). :D

Talking about the BP, there are many problems due to the lack of emergency lanes?
Not real probleme

The Peripherique is one of most populated expressway in Europe around 800 homeless live here.

Great, the A40. Very nice scenery. Sadly I've only driven in direction Chamonix.

The A51 near Grenoble:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6233/28476485ks4.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9284/21022374gm2.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4766/11zd7.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4364/pict0066yy1xs2.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2743/16ff0.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5950/20jf6.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8421/18894204ck0.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/9846/75626717ap0.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4271/10777376lx3.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/681/73687478qt5.jpg


http://www.unautrevoyage.fr/

La VSP in action...

http://sniavlys.free.fr/images_web/VSP/VSP-Images/10.jpg

http://sniavlys.free.fr/images_web/VSP/VSP-Images/12.jpg

http://sniavlys.free.fr/images_web/VSP/VSP-Images/17.jpg


http://sniavlys.free.fr/images_web/VSP/VSP.html

this motorway looks awesome.

this motorway looks awesome.
Which one and why ?
The A51 with the mountains around or the A48 with the coaches on the emergency lane ?

Any plans to widen that autoroute?

The A51 looks very beautiful.

Which one and why ?
The A51 with the mountains around or the A48 with the coaches on the emergency lane ?

The A51, because it looks very shiny and modern.

That A51 is a lovely drive. :yes:

Any plans to widen that autoroute?

Yes may be in 2020 or 2030 when the A51 will be extended...
http://autoroutea51.free.fr/carteregion3.png

Why didn't they build extra lane? It doesn't seem that it would cost so much more.
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9284/21022374gm2.jpg

What is the difference between those two center markings?
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/681/73687478qt5.jpg
And what happened here, that this difference does not exist anymore?
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2743/16ff0.jpg

Why didn't they build extra lane? It doesn't seem that it would cost so much more.
Because we are 30km far from Grenoble (Monestier de Clermont) just after the beginning of the highway and before the 2 lanes brigde and tunnel. This part of the highway has been opened this spring.

http://autoroutea51.free.fr/profil-coynelle-coldufau.jpg



EDIT: Oups, I didn't well read your question...

Why didn't they build extra lane? It doesn't seem that it would cost so much more.
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9284/21022374gm2.jpg I don't know this 'autoroute': but I suppose this is provisional, waiting the end of some infrastructure as that tunnel they were building in another pic here

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4364/pict0066yy1xs2.jpg

What is the difference between those two center markings?
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/681/73687478qt5.jpgIn France the 'more dense' marking on motorways means you're not allow to change lane in the run
It's normally used close to the exits for the lane on the right: probably there is an exit ramp just on
And what happened here, that this difference does not exist anymore?
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2743/16ff0.jpgAnd this is a mistery according what I just said :)

^^
Wait... they use that marking even for stepped stretches on reduction (always not to allow lane changing)

Probably this is the case: in the first pic reduction is quite stepped, and in the second one it is not, so they thought to delete the marking they previously traced

Wonderful pictures! I remember my drive from Paris to Grenoble - it was unforgettable.

In France the close dashes mean "beware if you change of lane", usually after/before a ramp, or on a dangerous stretch of road...

I don't know this 'autoroute': but I suppose this is provisional, waiting the end of some infrastructure as that tunnel they were building in another pic here
The second tunnel has already been built, for the moment it is used as a security tunnel.


In France the 'more dense' marking on motorways means you're not allow to change lane in the run
It's normally used close to the exits for the lane on the right: probably there is an exit ramp just on
The picture has been taken on the "roof" of a tunnel. As juanico says it indicates a possible danger.


And this is a mistery according what I just said :)
Mystery, mystery...

The last week end I took the A4 motorway, the entrance in Paris is really fantastic.

^^We want photos! :colgate:

^^We want photos! :colgate:

I have some.

http://lh4.google.nl/ASWchris/R0xz1l01a7I/AAAAAAAAKl0/XY2yw-S7Io4/Frankrijk2005%20164.jpg?imgmax=512

http://lh6.google.nl/ASWchris/R0xz2F01a9I/AAAAAAAAKmE/Ntx0899e-7Y/Frankrijk2005%20166.jpg?imgmax=512

http://lh3.google.nl/ASWchris/R0xz2V01a-I/AAAAAAAAKmM/Z2w7vkQ90B8/Frankrijk2005%20167.jpg?imgmax=512

http://lh4.google.nl/ASWchris/R0xz2l01a_I/AAAAAAAAKmU/C6vJFZdeWo4/Frankrijk2005%20168.jpg?imgmax=512

http://lh5.google.nl/ASWchris/R0xz2101bAI/AAAAAAAAKmc/tj0caQ7PaaI/Frankrijk2005%20169.jpg?imgmax=512

http://lh6.google.nl/ASWchris/R0xz3F01bBI/AAAAAAAAKmk/TehkwWiJCJw/Frankrijk2005%20170.jpg?imgmax=512

http://lh3.google.nl/ASWchris/R0xz3V01bCI/AAAAAAAAKms/Ax5-9l_VTPw/Frankrijk2005%20171.jpg?imgmax=512

http://lh4.google.nl/ASWchris/R0xz3l01bDI/AAAAAAAAKm0/szASKEZOndE/Frankrijk2005%20172.jpg?imgmax=512

http://lh6.google.nl/ASWchris/R0xz4F01bEI/AAAAAAAAKm8/v9NZRWAjWJA/Frankrijk2005%20173.jpg?imgmax=512

In 2005 i used to concentrate on the signs, not to much about the environs.

Yes, similar to radi, he concentrates to crashbarriers.:lol:

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/4364/pict0066yy1xs2.jpg
Here's something I've been wondering about for a while, as I've noticed it in recent years on broadcasts of the "Tour de France" on TV: on that road to the right of the A51 (which passes underneath the A51 just before the tunnel) there are right-turn arrows painted on the centreline of the road just before the road turns left. Can someone explain what these arrows mean?

I think I would like it in France with all the mountains and also the very good lookiing roads.

Here's something I've been wondering about for a while, as I've noticed it in recent years on broadcasts of the "Tour de France" on TV: on that road to the right of the A51 (which passes underneath the A51 just before the tunnel) there are right-turn arrows painted on the centreline of the road just before the road turns left. Can someone explain what these arrows mean?

It means if you are overtaking, you have to keep right because you can't see what's after the turn.

It means if you are overtaking, you have to keep right because you can't see what's after the turn.
Ah, OK. Thanks Chris! :okay:

EDIT: And Nephasto!

Indeed. End of zone with permission to overtake. Everybody back to the right lane! :D

It means if you are overtaking, you have to keep right because you can't see what's after the turn.

That's pretty close to the curve. I think overtaking should be restricted much earlier. If there is a car flying from the opposite direction, I don't think that there is enough warning (although of course, a good driver should see the turn in advance and not overtake just because the centre line is broken :)).

The last week end I took the A4 motorway, the entrance in Paris is really fantastic.
Do you mean the "spaguetti junction" at Porte de Bercy ?

I agree, however in the Netherlands, they overreact this stuff to another level, sometimes straight flat-out roads have solid center lines for miles.

This hasn't always be the case, earlier, the solid center line really meant it is dangerous to overtake. Now, almost every road has a solid center line, and people don't take it serious anymore.

Is there anyone who already possesses the latest Michelin France road atlas from 2008?

This one;
http://boutiquecartesetguides.michelin.fr/images/upload/ca_atlasfrance_indispensable_m.jpg

^^No, but they might update in on their website...
At least the maps of the iberian peninsula, with a 1cm=4km's scale were updated in previous years... but not to all scales... the 1cm=10km's still has the 2006 version.

Anyway, why do you ask? Anything in particular?

Which motorway in France is most busy ?

^^As for non urban motorways I guess the A7, between Valence and Orange must be in the top of the most busy... especially during summer.

^^As for non urban motorways I guess the A7, between Valence and Orange must be in the top of the most busy... especially during summer.
Yes definitely. This can be terrible at times.

How many lanes it has ?

3+3

^^As for non urban motorways I guess the A7, between Valence and Orange must be in the top of the most busy... especially during summer.

71.000 on average.

That's not very much, though summer volumes are much higher.

As busiest motorway, i guess the A4 in Paris.

http://www.cofiroute.fr/cofiroute.nsf/web/institutionnel/$file/carte-a85.png

Stretch of A85 opens December 18th.

Perhaps the most breathtaking French motorway/freeway. I let you try to guess where it's located exactly.

http://www.survoldefrance.fr/photos/highdef/6250.jpg

http://www.reunion.equipement.gouv.fr/nlsdo/images/Image1.jpg

Perhaps the most breathtaking French motorway/freeway. I let you try to guess where it's located exactly.

http://www.survoldefrance.fr/photos/highdef/6250.jpg

^^ Reunion island.
I lived here two years.
In this picture the right side is closed due at Landslide risk.
It is called "Route de la corniche" or "Route du littoral", opened in 1970's it is maybe the most expensive french road
Speed limit : 110 km/h

Il fallait laisser les autres répondre alors si tu as vécu sur place.

Sorry. :doh:

An other one expensive freeway is in construction in Reunion island.
Called "route des Tamarins".

It will link this freeway at an other one near Saint Pierre (the second city of the island), actually the RN freeway (route du Littoral) link Saint Denis at Saint Paul (the third city in the island) after it is a crowded two lanes higway.

http://www.mi-aime-a-ou.com/image_presentation/route_tamarins.jpg

http://fr.structurae.de/files/photos/64/route_des_tamarins/route_des_tamarins_troncon_apres_le_viaduc_saint_paul_et_tranchee.jpg
Jacques Mossot Structurae

http://fr.structurae.de/files/photos/64/route_des_tamarins/route_des_tamarins_viaduc_defleurimont_et_tunnel_du_cap_la_houssaye_vus_d_helicoptere_1.jpg

http://fr.structurae.de/files/photos/64/route_des_tamarins/route_des_tamarins_viaduc_de_de_bras_boucan_2.jpg

Sorry. :doh:
Tend tes doigts, j'amène la règle.

An other one expensive freeway is in construction in Reunion island.
Called "route des Tamarins".
Tamarind Road is probably the most impressive European motorway/freeway under construction at the moment. The 34 km (21 miles) motorway will cost almost 1 billion euros. It will have impressive viaducts due to the volcanic landscape of Réunion.

The most impressive viaduct will be over the Grande Ravine canyon. This viaduct will be 300 meters/yards long, and at 170 meters (560 feet) above the bottom of the canyon, almost as impressive as the Millau Viaduct. Unusually these days, the regional council of Réunion has decided to chose the most expensive (but most breathtaking) viaduct. The president of the regional council said that it's not just a question of money, it's also a question of history and the visual effect that this viaduct will have for decades in the landscape of Réunion, so they prefered to pay more to have the most beautiful viaduct.

http://www.fondasol.fr/_ressources/actualites/38-2.jpg

http://www.fondasol.fr/_ressources/actualites/38-1.jpg

http://en.structurae.de/files/photos/64/route_des_tamarins/dscf0046.jpg

In total this new motorway/freeway will have to cross no less than 120 canyons (not as large as the one above), and several impressive viaducts are under construction:

http://sciencesecole.ac-reunion.fr/html/tech_indus_matiere/ponts/assets/imgdbarticlephoto.jpeg

http://lutinblogeur.midiblogs.com/images/medium_pont.gif

http://www.regionreunion.com/fr/spip/IMG/jpg/route-tamarins4.jpg

http://www.temoignages.re/IMG/jpg/resized/480-x-tx-route-des-tamarins-100.jpg

http://www.greisch.com/projet/2945.jpg

http://en.structurae.de/files/photos/64/route_des_tamarins/route_des_tamarins_viaduc_bras_boucan_canot_et_tunnel_du_cap_la_houssaye_a_cote_du_viaduc_de_petit_bras_canot_2.jpg

http://en.structurae.de/files/photos/2639/img_7060.jpg

http://www.reunion.equipement.gouv.fr/rdt/trace/PK11-18/ravine_3_bassins/images/index.14.jpg

Réunion is also going to build a railway line, another colossal and impressive project that will cost 1.3 billion euros. A fantastic viaduct is planned, reportedly the highest railway viaduct in the world. It will be made of two viaducts dominating the ocean 200 meters/650 ft above sea-level and linked by a tunnel in between them. One viaduct is 730 meters/yards long and the other is 1,000 meters/yards long.

http://dossiers.clicanoo.com/IMG/resize/320x220_BONNE-PHOTO-TRAM.jpg

Très bien. Looks very good, i didn't expect to find such Autoroute construction here.

http://www.carte-du-monde.net/cartes/reunion.gif

Actually Reunion island has 3 freeway.


N1 between Saint Denis and Saint Paul. (Called Route du Littoral between Saint Denis and la Possession)
N1 and N3 between Etant Sale, Saint Pierre and Le Tampon
RN2 between Saint Denis and Saint Benoit

The tamarind freeway is the link between Saint Paul and Etant Sale, all the big city of the island will be linked by freeway.


The route du Littoral wich the montaine side closed due at Landslide risk.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7840/a6ru5.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/453598786_9a7fdc7923_o.jpg

In normal.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/116/308005613_e93a52cc38_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/102/308006375_6615b647f8_o.jpg

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6733/a1ok7.jpg

Freeway near Saint Paul
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1259/a8vj3.jpg

A freeway (I don't know which) I think it is near Saint Paul or Saint Denis
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1046/1306406416_922a5b3378_b.jpg

I don't know where it is.
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9872/a12zs6.jpg

Near Saint Pierre
http://www.mi-aime-a-ou.com/photos_ile_reunion/img/satellite/saint_pierre_avion_01.jpg

Le Tampon

Nice place to live... :lol:

:rofl:

I got the French road atlas from Michelin. (No Reunion in this atlas though ;) )

The first thing that one notice; the atlas has a Dutch version cover with an irritating flap! I think i'm gonna cut that off.
http://i5.tinypic.com/6jmdzeo.jpg

Some carthography;
http://i17.tinypic.com/6luvzoi.jpg

If you're interested in French overseas motorways, there are several more of them in other overseas departments and territories.

Here is a motorway in Martinique for example (this is the only overseas motorway which is officially called "autoroute" in French). Oddly they call it the A1 which is confusing because there's already a A1 between Paris and Lille.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/1198/martiniquezo6.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2041/martinique2hy9.jpg

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/786/martinique3pn0.jpg

There are also motorways in Guadeloupe, New Caledonia and French Polynesia but I can't find pictures.

Last but not least, in French Guiana there are no motorways but roads are nonetheless impressive there. They opened the (paved) road from Régina to Saint-Georges de l'Oyapock in 2004 which was the last missing link between the Surinamese border and the Brazilian border. They are currently building a bridge over the large Oyapock River marking the border with Brazil. It will be the first land crossing between Brazil and Europe. It will then be possible to drive uninterrupted from Cayenne to Macapá, the capital of the state of Amapá in Brazil.

French-quality road going through the "Green Hell" of French Guiana:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2014/2090683441_e533306864_b.jpg

And this is what happens after a few months if the roads are not maintained, thanks to the hellish jungle weather:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2308/2091468074_5045015280_b.jpg

Trying to catch Brazilian illegal immigrants:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2084/2091470674_c5620074e8_b.jpg

The bridge will cross the Oyapock river marking the border between France and Brazil:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2150/2091664634_e311c823f0_b.jpg

lol! even at Martinique they have -20 km/h in the case of rain as in France!

Martinique is France, so it is better to say "Metropolitan France"

A1 motorway in northern oulter suburbs of Paris.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2378/900pxgonesseechangeura1vh5.jpg

That's one hell of an Ikea there.

^^ Paris has the metropolitan area with the most IKEA in the world.

Is this the A1-A104 interchange?

Yes it is, A1 - A104 (aka Francillienne) interchange near Charles de Gaulle airport. The A1 here is impressive (European view) :)

IKEA's in the Netherlands always causes quite some traffic jams on the adjacent motorways on saturdays. How's that in France?

lol! even at Martinique they have -20 km/h in the case of rain as in France!
French laws apply throughout the entire Republic, even in overseas departments. I believe even in overseas territories like New Caledonia and French Polynesia they have the same driving code as in metropolitan France.

That's one hell of an Ikea there.
That's not even the largest Ikea in Paris. The largest Ikea is in Franconville in the northwestern suburbs (whereas the one on the picture is the Ikea in Villepinte in the northern suburbs). Ikea people told me that the Ikea in Franconville is the largest in the world !!
IKEA's in the Netherlands always causes quite some traffic jams on the adjacent motorways on saturdays. How's that in France?
In Paris the Ikea stores are open on Sundays, so no need to rush there on Saturdays. I always go on Sundays.

The A1 here is impressive (European view) :)
Yeah, but they HAVE to turn it into a single motorway! I've never understood why in Greater Paris they separate motorways into smaller motorways running next to each other. As if French drivers were afraid of a 12-lane motorway. It's ridiculous.

My second pet-peeve is the way Parisian motorways never have exits!!!! And worse, some motorways don't even have junctions with other motorways. Like when you drive on the A6 going south, when it crosses the A86 you can't take the A86 motorway towards the west, there's simply no ramp that goes there !! And the Michelin map don't even tell you! Once because of that stupid thing I ended up all the way down in Palaiseau whereas I wanted to go to Versailles. :bash:

Yeah, but they HAVE to turn it into a single motorway! I've never understood why in Greater Paris they separate motorways into smaller motorways running next to each other. As if French drivers were afraid of a 12-lane motorway. It's ridiculous.


No it's not.
It's much better and more efficient like that. ;)

It's much better to have a 3+3+3+3 road than a 6+6, for example.

I have to agree with Nephasto here. Very wide motorways aren't efficient. 6x6 is probably still bearable, but anything above would be very bad, because under such a setup drivers need to keep changing across many lanes, which increases weaving and decreases safety. Combine that with cloverleaf interchanges and you have real trouble :)

This is why the big highways in Toronto are split into multiple carriageways.

I agree with the two posts above. The capacity of lanes is decreasing per lane if there are over 3 lanes per direction. Like the right lane might have a capacity of 2500 vehicles/hour, while the 6th lane only has 1500 vehicles/hour.

Therefore, a 3+3+3+3 section is better. It also distributes local and through traffic better.

The disadvantage of parallal lanes is, that in case of an accident, 2 or 3 lanes are blocked, which is about the total capacity of a parallel lane. With a 2x6 configuration, you can detour traffic better by the accident.

Though Dutch design standard prefer a parallel lane system with more than 4 lanes per direction, though we have a 2x5 A4, and a future 2x5 A2. Parallel systems also consume more space, because of the extra emergency lanes and central reservations.

Paris Peripherique
http://accel2.fdata.over-blog.com/1/40/80/21/header_home_tmpphp2SP6pS.jpg

Unlike that most will think inner Paris is at the right of this picture, at the left it is the inner "suburbs".

There is not a single stack interchange in France, only semi-stacks like that one on the previous page.
The only full stack project I know of is the one that was to be built south of Paris in the 1970's as we can see it drawn with dashes on this 1976 edition Michelin map:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2338/2168373408_a05fe74b63_o.jpg

Only half of it was built eventually. The reason is that the northwards motorway was cancelled (the motorway was to join Paris second ring road to Paris city ringroad). The gvt decided that the new TGV atlantique railtrack should use that corridor instead.

Unlike that most will think inner Paris is at the right of this picture, at the left it is the inner "suburbs".

Nice picture. Yeah the Paris city proper is inside the Périphérique, unlike many think. Paris has an incredible amount of suburbs, but i think this is classic French or American, Dutch, Spanish or German cities don't have as much suburbs as their French counterparts.

Info about the Tamarind Road (a motorway actually). Pictures have already been posted in this thread.
La route des Tamarins en bref

http://www.regionreunion.com/fr/spip/IMG/gif/carte2_209.gif

Avec son tracé de 33 kilomètres à mi-hauteur, ses 120 ouvrages d’art pour franchir les ravines dont trois ponts de dimensions exceptionnelles, ses 9 pôles d’échanges pour desservir les agglomérations, la route des Tamarins est appelée à s’inscrire durablement dans le paysage de La Réunion et à jouer un rôle considérable dans l’aménagement du territoire.

Lancée en 1998 avec une livraison aujourd’hui prévue pour fin 2008, la route des Tamarins constitue ainsi le dernier grand chantier du XXe siècle, et le premier du siècle qui s’ouvre. Jamais un ouvrage n’aura autant mérité sa qualité de “grand chantier”. Au-delà de la prouesse technique qu’il représente, cette voie nouvelle revêt une dimension tout à fait exceptionnelle. En premier lieu, la route des Tamarins va permettre l’aboutissement de la mise à 2 x 2 voies tout autour de notre île, de Saint-Benoît à Saint-Pierre, réalisant ainsi l’objectif fixé par le plan d’aménagement à long terme élaboré dès 1990. Sa fonction première est donc de poursuivre la fluidification du trafic routier et notamment entre l’Ouest et le Sud.

Elle permettra également d’alléger significativement la pression sur le littoral qui doit retrouver sa vocation essentiellement urbaine et qui pourra également accueillir le projet de piste cyclable et le futur Tram-train. Mais parallèlement, elle constitue le premier ouvrage routier de moyenne altitude de grande envergure et son influence sur le développement sera aussi grande que celle, à l’époque, de la route Hubert de Lisle. Il anticipe ainsi sur la réalisation à terme de la grande route circulaire de moyenne altitude, qui doit être la colonne vertébrale structurant le développement des zones à mi-hauteur pour répondre ainsi à l’arrivée de plus de 200 000 habitants supplémentaires d’ici 2020. La route des Tamarins jouera donc un rôle structurant dans l’aménagement équilibré du territoire de La Réunion.

La réalisation de cette route de développement représente également une contribution importante pour l’activité économique.

Durant les phases de réalisation, ce chantier va générer plusieurs centaines de millions d’euros pour le BTP et créer environ 1 500 emplois. Avec ces partenaires, la Région a pris les dispositions nécessaires pour que les entreprises réunionnaises et les Réunionnais formés à ces métiers puissent accéder à ce chantier. Par son ampleur exceptionnelle, par son impact économique, par les services qu’elle va rendre aux usagers de la route, enfin et surtout par le rôle qu’elle va jouer sur le plan du développement et de l’aménagement du territoire, la route des Tamarins concerne tous les Réunionnais. Dans cet esprit, nous vous tiendrons régulièrement informés de l’avancement de ce chantier qui participe à la construction de l’avenir de notre île.
http://www.regionreunion.com/fr/spip/spip.php?article1344

Can you translate this shortly in English? French is not wide-spoken outside of France (except some former colonies, but forumers here usually not from there)

French is not wide-spoken outside of France (except some former colonies, but forumers here usually not from there)
French not wide spoken outside of France??? French is spoken by close to 200 million people in more than 40 francophone countries in the world. English is the only language spoken in more countries than French. Furthermore between 100 and 200 million more people can speak French as a foreign language in non-francophone countries.

The 64 million inhabitants of France have now become a minority of the French speakers worldwide, representing only a third of French speakers worldwide (not including people who learnt French as a foreign language). France is still the country with the largest number of French speakers among francophone countries, but in the future it will probably be the Democratic Republic of Congo that will have the most French speakers.

Dark blue: French native tongue; blue: official language/widely used; Light blue: language of culture; green: minority
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/New-Map-Francophone_World.PNG/800px-New-Map-Francophone_World.PNG
Can you translate this shortly in English?
I'll try to do it as soon as I have time.

Yes, but does that part of the world is heavily on this forum? Only Quebec and France really.

I know you guys want to think of French as a world language, but it isn't like English, which is almost always taught. French is in a lot of countries only an optional class. I used to have French at school, though i don't remember a lot of it.

Don't extrapolate the Netherlands' case to the rest of the world. The Dutch have chosen to discard the language of one of their major neighbors from their school system, they'll probably repent someday when that neighbor will be the most populated country in the EU with the largest economy. Same in Spain where local authorities apparently don't know that France is their number one economic partner, not the UK or the US. And in France now they want to discard German and Spanish in favor of English. The stupidity of language teaching in the EU is appaling. :ohno:

But it's really frustrating when you are on holiday in France and almost nobody speaks English.

You're exagerating Chriszwolle. Besides, I was in Germany several times and I found it very hard to communicate in English with the locals. In Berlin I went to an optician store on Kurfürstendamm, and their wasn't a single saleswoman that could speak English! I was greatly surprised. I can't imagine a store on the Champs-Elysées where nobody could speak English.

Yeah in Germany, they don't speak English very well too. But you can't expect someone to speak all major languages in Europe. You can speak English excellent in the Scandinavian countries :)

Bottom line, both germans and french people suck when it comes to be nice to foreign people who can't speak their national language(I speak by experiance, in the german case). ;)
Not very politically correct to say this, though! :lol:

I used to have French at school, though i don't remember a lot of it.

I had French for 5 years in my technical high school (Polish invention).
It was one of the biggest waste of time in my life.
All I can say now is bonjur, merci and that's it. ;)
Out of class of around 30 guys I think only one ore two put a bit of effort to French, all others concentrated on English (which was as badly thought as French in our case, but if you want to learn something bad teacher is lesser problem than bad teacher of hated subject)

Is't this about French autoroutes!?

I thought I was in the wrong thread! :D

Paris Peripherique
http://accel2.fdata.over-blog.com/1/40/80/21/header_home_tmpphp2SP6pS.jpg

Unlike that most will think inner Paris is at the right of this picture, at the left it is the inner "suburbs".


cool pic, thanks for posting it. :cheers:

French not wide spoken outside of France??? French is spoken by close to 200 million people in more than 40 francophone countries in the world. English is the only language spoken in more countries than French. Furthermore between 100 and 200 million more people can speak French as a foreign language in non-francophone countries.

The 64 million inhabitants of France have now become a minority of the French speakers worldwide, representing only a third of French speakers worldwide (not including people who learnt French as a foreign language). France is still the country with the largest number of French speakers among francophone countries, but in the future it will probably be the Democratic Republic of Congo that will have the most French speakers.

Dark blue: French native tongue; blue: official language/widely used; Light blue: language of culture; green: minority
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/New-Map-Francophone_World.PNG/800px-New-Map-Francophone_World.PNG

I'll try to do it as soon as I have time.
FFS, most people on this forum don't speak French, and French is not even in the Top 5 of spoken languages world wide, behind Mandarin, English, Hindi, Spanish, and Portuguese. Deal with this reality and be kind enough to provide a frickin translation!

PS: Thanks for ruining the thread with your linguistic hegemonic nonsense. :cheer:

I love motorways in France... :D

FFS, most people on this forum don't speak French, and French is not even in the Top 5 of spoken languages world wide, behind Mandarin, English, Hindi, Spanish, and Portuguese. Deal with this reality and be kind enough to provide a frickin translation!

PS: Thanks for ruining the thread with your linguistic hegemonic nonsense. :cheer:
^^I suppose your message is directed to Chriszwolle. In other threads people routinely post local infos in local languages when they don't have time to translate, but here people have decided to make a fuss about it. Go figure...

^^I suppose your message is directed to Chriszwolle. In other threads people routinely post local infos in local languages when they don't have time to translate, but here people have decided to make a fuss about it. Go figure...
At least be courteous enough to put a brief translation of the salient features given that most people in the world don't speak French.

Given the tone of your message, you can forget about translation. There's Babel Fish translator if you want the salient points. Lástima que hayan personas tan mala onda como tú!

Given the tone of your message, you can forget about translation. There's Babel Fish translator if you want the salient points. Lástima que hayan personas tan mala onda como tú!
And people wonder why the French have such a reputation for arrogance in the world :ohno:

You know what, fine, don't provide me a translation.

But be warned, the more Frenchmen delay recognizing that the SOLE international language in English, the more isolated they will become. ;)

Alright, let's forget the whole language thing.

EDIT: no, I think he's not. :D

Deleted my own message that was here: I got irritated by the language discussion and posted a reply, but while brushing my teeth I realized my irritation wouldn't really help anyone, or the discussion...

Back to the topic!

So... how about those French Autoroutes. They're quite something, eh?

(And to all the people in Saskatchewan who have French as a 'language of culture': bonjour!)

I also usually complain about people not translating in the non-local forums, but this time I passed - I can understand some French as it's close to Romanian. :D The article mainly says how great this Autoroute is. :D

I just noticed - the map also shows French being a "language of culture" in Flanders... :lol: :runaway:

Anyway, I'm very interested about these Autoroutes outside metropolitan (European) France. Are there any autoroutes in French Polynesia, Guyana?

I just noticed - the map also shows French being a "language of culture" in Flanders... :lol: :runaway:
If you have a complaint about the map, the map is from the English-speaking Wikipedia, and the caption "language of culture" is theirs, I simply copied and pasted.
Anyway, I'm very interested about these Autoroutes outside metropolitan (European) France. Are there any autoroutes in French Polynesia, Guyana?
In French Guiana there's no autoroute (autoroute? I thought French was forbidden on this thread...).

In French Polynesia there's a 2+2 motorway around Papeete, but it is not officially listed as an autoroute.

To much offtopic discussion and too few photo's in this thread.

Let's put some photo's of my beloved autoroutes:

A10, near Tour:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Nephasto/DSCN5911.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Nephasto/DSCN5912.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Nephasto/DSCN5913.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Nephasto/DSCN5914.jpg

Heading north on A7 in a typical summer day, near Orange.
It has 4 lanes at first because it's near the junction of A7 with A9... It changes back to 3 lanes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Nephasto/DSCN2146.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Nephasto/DSCN2147.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Nephasto/DSCN2148.jpg

Thís last photo it's a bit of a mistery to me, bacause it was taken 20 minutes after the previous one I showed (close to Montelimar I think) and we can see that the A7 has 4 lanes againg (going back to 3 some meters ahead, as you can see by the signage). Why is there a segment of the A7 with 4 lanes near Montelimar? :dunno:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/Nephasto/DSCN2162.jpg

Maybe a climbing lane?

Could be, but climbing lanes are very rare on 2x3 motorways. Usually one only sees climbing lanes in 2x2 motorways, as a 3rd lane.

^^ They should widen the motorway to 2x20 lanes to handle the summer peaks, but i think it's possible to have a 4th lane as a climbing lane. Remember this is the busiest tolled motorway in France outside summer times. It is the key link between most of Spain and most of Europe.

^^ They should widen the motorway to 2x20 lanes to handle the summer peaks, but i think it's possible to have a 4th lane as a climbing lane.

Yes, it's possible, although adding a 4th lane as a climbing lane it's rare. But maybe that's the case.
I've seen a climbing lane (as a 4th lane) on a 2x3 motorway this summer. It was on the north part of the London M25.

Yes, it's possible, although adding a 4th lane as a climbing lane it's rare. But maybe that's the case.
I've seen a climbing lane (as a 4th lane) on a 2x3 motorway this summer. It was on the north part of the London M25.

Here in Czech rep. we have also a climbing lane on 3+3 motorway stretch...

Here (http://www.mapy.cz/#x=133587008@y=135451568@z=16@mm=F) is the proof, it is the old type one, on the right side, with double dashed/solid line...

^^Thanks! :okay:

I just don't remember seeing climbing lanes on 2x3 motorways in France, but I'm probably wrong.

I-75 just north of Atlanta has them, too.

I-75 just north of Atlanta has them, too.

That road has 5 climbing lanes next to the 3 regular lanes :D

I also usually complain about people not translating in the non-local forums, but this time I passed - I can understand some French as it's close to Romanian. :D The article mainly says how great this Autoroute is. :D

I just noticed - the map also shows French being a "language of culture" in Flanders... :lol: :runaway:

Anyway, I'm very interested about these Autoroutes outside metropolitan (European) France. Are there any autoroutes in French Polynesia, Guyana?

There is an ''autoroute'' in Martinique, numbered A1. It's actually the only autoroute outside the ''métropole''. It has a 110 km/h speed limit.

In Corsica a 10 km stretch of 110 km/h ''voie express'' is currently under construction south of Bastia (http://corsematin.blogspot.com/2007/10/la-future-route-borgo-vescovato-aura.html).

I've been several times in France :) 6 times we drove at the east side of France. Metz,Nancy,Dijon,Lyon. ( 6 times same camping in the alpes ) Last year summer 2007 we went to the west (normandy) I will never forget the huge bridge in Le Havre. :) I've lost the photo's but I loved it :)

A model of the bridge that will link France and Brazil was unveiled last Tuesday by French president Sarkozy and Brazilian president Lula at a meeting in the tropical jungle at the Franco-Brazilian border. The bridge over the Oyapock River marking the border between France (French Guiana) and Brazil (State of Amapa) will be the first land crossing ever opened between the two countries.

There were plans to build this bridge as far back as 1997, but the matter stalled. Both presidents have now committed their countries in earnest to building the bridge, which will be 350 meters long and will cost 18 million euros. France will fork out a further 4 million euros to build the customs, wich will be located on the French side of the border, and 14.5 million euros to build the 5 km-long road between the bridge and the French town of Saint-Georges de l'Oyapock where it will merge with the road to Cayenne, the capital of French Guiana.

Now that France is serious about the project (after 10 years of stalling talks), things should go quickly. The bridge is expected to open to traffic in 2010. The sudden interest of French authorities in building this long awaited bridge is part of France's renewed interest in South America. French authorities want to expand French influence in South America by using French Guiana as a springboard. A brand new university is currently under construction in Cayenne, see: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=484997&page=2
The goal of authorities is to attract students from all across South America. A cooperation agreement was also signed with Brazil at the meeting between Lula and Sarkozy.

French Guiana currently has 210,000 inhabitants but its booming population is forecasted to reach between 450,000 and 600,000 in 2030. The Cayenne urban area currently has 100,000 inhabitants and should rise to reach 250,000 by 2030. French Guiana, with its unique and for the most part preserved jungle, its European Space Centre in Kourou, and its potential oil ressources offshore, has the greatest potential of all the French deparments.

Location of the bridge. Brazil to the left, France to the right:
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1530/l061001ji1.gif

Model of the bridge unveiled last Tuesday:
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8923/frenchguianalulasarkozyjx5.jpg

When the bridge opens, it will be possible to drive uninterrupted from Cayenne to Macapa, the capital of the state of Amapa (fully paved road on the French side, partly paved road on the Brazilian side). No autoroute/motorway is planned at this stage due to the still sparse population of the region.
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7582/515pxborderbrazilfrancenr5.png

For those who would like to find out more, here's a special dossier in L'Express detailing 10 challenges ahead for French Guiana (in a nutshel, booming population and lots of potential, but problems due to illegal immigration, pollution of the rivers due to illegal Brazilian gold diggers, and need to accomodate all the new and young population):
http://www.lexpress.fr/info/region/dossier/guyane/dossier.asp?ida=463310

Forum member Vyncke of the dutch highway forum has made a great overview of most planned french autoroutes together with official maps. He also uses the michelin maps to draw the planned autoroutes.
The full overview can be found here (http://asw.convolution.kil2.net/viewforum.php?f=134) (in dutch)

Lyon area:

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/7202/img2368fz.jpg

http://users.fulladsl.be/spb10258/Lyon.jpg

http://wikisara.free.fr/wikisara/images/Lyon_-_2007.JPG

Planned A44, western beltway Lyon
http://users.fulladsl.be/spb10258/lyon.gif

Planned A45, Lyon-St. Etienne and new beltway St. Etienne
http://autorout.free.fr/2_Pdf/4_Alpes/a45.gif

Planned A432, north of Lyon:
http://users.fulladsl.be/spb10258/Plan_general_des_travauxA432.jpg

http://users.fulladsl.be/spb10258/A432-2.gif

A88, Caen-Sees:

http://users.fulladsl.be/spb10258/carte_simplifie.gif

http://users.fulladsl.be/spb10258/carte_develop_eco.gif

http://users.fulladsl.be/spb10258/A88.gif

Credits to Vyncke

I've been several times in France :) 6 times we drove at the east side of France. Metz,Nancy,Dijon,Lyon. ( 6 times same camping in the alpes ) Last year summer 2007 we went to the west (normandy) I will never forget the huge bridge in Le Havre. :) I've lost the photo's but I loved it :)

I'm not sure, but I think you are talking about the "pont de Normandie"

pont de normandie
http://www.metier-tp.com/media/images/pont-normandie.jpg



or maybe it was the "pont de tancarville ?

http://img.1.vacanceo.net/classic/42920.jpg

FFS, most people on this forum don't speak French, and French is not even in the Top 5 of spoken languages world wide, behind Mandarin, English, Hindi, Spanish, and Portuguese. Deal with this reality and be kind enough to provide a frickin translation!

Mandarin is spoken...... where ? in China.... and That's it.
Hindi ? It is even not a language, Hindi is not spoken everywhere in Inda, actually Hindy is a dialect spoken by a population between 250 millions and 400 millions of people, so you know... excepted if you are an expert, and if you are able to bring the real figures you shouldn't speak about that.
As for Portugese, it's spoken by Portugal, Brazil, and Angola, and ..... that's it. So it's actually spoken by about 170 millions of people all around the world thanks to Brazil. It means it is less spoken by the french language. Sorry keep your facts straight.
Which is also funny it is the fact you take the numbers you like. First the natives and then the number of people able to speak the language (ie : "recognizing that the SOLE international language in English") So it means according to you, english is not the sole international language, since english is not the language the most spoken in the world.... But finally, english is the sole international language. You know what, you have to make a choice or what you say doesn't make sens.

PS: Thanks for ruining the thread with your linguistic hegemonic nonsense. :cheer:
And people wonder why the French have such a reputation for arrogance in the world :ohno:

You know what, fine, don't provide me a translation.

But be warned, the more Frenchmen delay recognizing that the SOLE international language in English, the more isolated they will become. ;)


:blahblah:









A very impressive view of the "Viaduc de Millau"

http://hotel-lion-or.com/photos/158_3_145623.jpg



A ride (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=e9TV3YDuE9k)


by helicopter (http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=PbQc5QgH4Ws&NR=1)


I Love this place :)

http://users.fulladsl.be/spb10258/carte_develop_eco.gif



Credits to Vyncke

I heard there was a project to make roads 2X2 between St Lo and Coutances and Coutances and Granville. The same between Granville and Avranches.


http://www.ecotaupi.org/IMG/gif/manche.gif