I guess wasteful is in the eye of the beholder. I really like the designs for 94, and I would much rather see them take the effort to make it look nice if they must build this then to do it as cheaply as possible and have it look boring. The fact is that roads are the main form of travel, and regardless of if you personally are using 94 or not everyone else who is coming from out of state will take notice at how nice or not so nice our roads are. I believe it really does say something about the image of the state, regardless if that is an accurate reflection on how nice the state actually is (I for one love Wisconsin). People perceive things based on what they see first. And I really like that idea of making the road from the airport into town very decorated and welcoming. It's stuff like that that separates a city from another average town and makes it memorable.

When, exactly, did you unplug your brain? I'm beginning to suspect you're actually a plant by those you supposedly oppose. You're certainly their (our) easiest foil.
Carry on. Your musings fill a void left by the long gone presence of Cliff Claven.

You are easily flustered, aren't you? Fiber, man, fiber. Apparently YOU must be the keeper of statistics that support such sweeping generalizations. It would be nice to see them...if they exist. I just get such a kick out of boys like you who can't handle a different viewpoint.

I guess wasteful is in the eye of the beholder. I really like the designs for 94, and I would much rather see them take the effort to make it look nice if they must build this then to do it as cheaply as possible and have it look boring. The fact is that roads are the main form of travel, and regardless of if you personally are using 94 or not everyone else who is coming from out of state will take notice at how nice or not so nice our roads are. I believe it really does say something about the image of the state, regardless if that is an accurate reflection on how nice the state actually is (I for one love Wisconsin). People perceive things based on what they see first. And I really like that idea of making the road from the airport into town very decorated and welcoming. It's stuff like that that separates a city from another average town and makes it memorable.

To build on your point, beautification also helps build a favorable image of the city which ultimately draws more people and businesses to the region; especially the creative class. This will have a more than positive effect on getting things like rail transit off the ground.

Ajknee has every right to be frustrated that the process treats highway and rail transportation completely differently. These two projects don't have to be mutually exclusive, and in this case, may even complement each other.

Downtown Milwaukee has about 16,000 residents and 78,000 employees (including 54,000 white collar workers and 24,000 blue collar workers).

http://www.biztimes.com/news/2009/3/20/real-estate-bid-will-recruit-retailers-for-downtown

Now, that's good, solid information. Thank you.

I know you're being sarcastic, but this is really how I feel. I cannot begin to understand why funding for any form of mass transit is heavily scrutinized and often put to a vote when ridiculous projects like this just get a free pass.

I couldn't give a sh!t how pretty the bridges are. I'll never see them. And yet, I'm just supposed to accept that this is for the greater good as I read about all the major auto manufacturers going out of business. While at the same time I'm supposed to put up a fight every day defending my mode of transport in a city that I love dearly while watching every city around continue to grow their transit systems.

I AM PISSED OFF!!!


Where was my vote?

Why is this being built while the KRM is still on the shelf?

Why are we planting flowers where no one will stop to smell them?


This is absolutely, without a doubt, an enormous waste of resources. Enough said.


.

Do you own/dive a car?
My point here is not to spot you, because if you're able to get by without the great expense associated with an automobile, good for you. But, be honest, the number of people using roads and highways far, far, far outweighs the few who use trains. Therefore, you have to spend the money on projects that move the most people. Trains and other forms of mass transit certainly have a place, it's just a very small one compared to the great open road. Keep in mind that roads and highways aren't just for commuters -- they provide the main source of passage for the semis that transport so much of the goods around the country. Yeah, I'm not real crazy about sharing the roads with those big-ass semis, but they're largely responsible for what goes on within our economy.

Now, that's good, solid information. Thank you.

It was very hard to come by. I surfed the world-wide-web and came across this contraption they call Google.

I don't see it catching on, too complicated.

Do you own/dive a car?
My point here is not to spot you, because if you're able to get by without the great expense associated with an automobile, good for you. But, be honest, the number of people using roads and highways far, far, far outweighs the few who use trains. Therefore, you have to spend the money on projects that move the most people. Trains and other forms of mass transit certainly have a place, it's just a very small one compared to the great open road. Keep in mind that roads and highways aren't just for commuters -- they provide the main source of passage for the semis that transport so much of the goods around the country. Yeah, I'm not real crazy about sharing the roads with those big-ass semis, but they're largely responsible for what goes on within our economy.

My point is not to completely discredit the automobile. I completely understand its importance in this society. The issue I have is that a project this large, costing $1.9 billion, was not debated in the public arena. If I, a member of the public, had been asked I most certainly would've protested a fourth lane of traffic. I understand that the extra lane is comparatively small amount of money on this project, but the affects are costlier.

Also, I refuse to believe that the disproportionality of transit users to auto drivers is entirely by choice. There's simply no alternative to speak of. And I really think that people would choose riding a train over taking a car any day.

If you phrase it this way, I'm sure people would take trains: Would your rather get to point B sitting in a seat the entire way while focusing on a monotonous white striped line, or would your rather lounge around and get drunk on your way. Surely most Americans would rather be drunk.

I just don't understand what's taking so long.

The Common Council is voting today on a proposal to require developers that receive city financial assistance to pay a "prevailing wage" on their projects. Exception includes developers building apartments for low- and moderate-income renters. The ordinance would take effect on projects that receive assistance of $1 million or more. The proposal excludes funds that pay for road work and other public improvements. But those public improvements are already subject to separate prevailing wage provisions. link (http://www.jsonline.com/business/41794692.html)

I'm still torn on this, here's why: In our economic environment it's both responsible and naive to create a wage-minimum on a local industry. Responsible for its community benefits through a higher wage. Naive to assume a developer isn't going to balance the wage increase by cutting job positions or project quality.

If we're going to increase costs for a developer they're going to want more money from the city, and more time to pay off the loans. If we’re taking that road let’s mandate more sustainable design guidelines that will benefit local stakeholders on the project.

I do like the architectural details on the m-change and the Madison bridges. It really adds value to the project. However, I'm really not a fan of the Madison logo. I think it looks like old Soviet propaganda (http://i.zdnet.com/blogs/soviet_propaganda.jpg). And no, Skyking, this is not an invitation to make a joke about Madison -- it's just a logo critique. ;)

http://www.arashakbar.com/scrap/bridge2.jpg

Do you own/dive a car?
My point here is not to spot you, because if you're able to get by without the great expense associated with an automobile, good for you. But, be honest, the number of people using roads and highways far, far, far outweighs the few who use trains. Therefore, you have to spend the money on projects that move the most people. Trains and other forms of mass transit certainly have a place, it's just a very small one compared to the great open road. Keep in mind that roads and highways aren't just for commuters -- they provide the main source of passage for the semis that transport so much of the goods around the country. Yeah, I'm not real crazy about sharing the roads with those big-ass semis, but they're largely responsible for what goes on within our economy.

Yay Skyking! :applause:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/kingofdrones.jpg

Cliff lives.

If you think the Madison bridge logos look communist, you should have seen the Isthmus (local weekly) ads all over Madison about three years ago. They were red and yellow with a star. The people on them looked like the Soviets in NewBrew's link. That even prompted questions here in Madison.

I can't find the ads anywhere, though.

If you think the Madison bridge logos look communist, you should have seen the Isthmus (local weekly) ads all over Madison about three years ago. They were red and yellow with a star. The people on them looked like the Soviets in NewBrew's link. That even prompted questions here in Madison.

I can't find the ads anywhere, though.

These none-too-subtle allusions to Soviet design motifs, Madison.com's logo was another one, seem to be the rather bizarre conceit of some people who must see themselves in a "heroic" struggle here in the middle of Dairyland. They seem unable to comprehend what unspeakable horrors of one of the modern age's most vicious tyrannies these actually celebrate. They are a callous insult to the memory of tens of millions of murdered innocent human beings.

If I, a member of the public, had been asked I most certainly would've protested a fourth lane of traffic.

They do seek public input on these projects. You may not have been aware of meeting that were held, but they do seek public input.

These none-too-subtle allusions to Soviet design motifs, Madison.com's logo was another one, seem to be the rather bizarre conceit of some people who must see themselves in a "heroic" struggle here in the middle of Dairyland. They seem unable to comprehend what unspeakable horrors of one of the modern age's most vicious tyrannies these actually celebrate. They are a callous insult to the memory of tens of millions of murdered innocent human beings.

I've got to say, as a graphic designer myself, that these soviet images are great. That's not to say that I disagree with your critique of communism, and people need to be aware of what they are communicating when selecting design elements, but just in terms of how they look, I think they are great.

http://www.arashakbar.com/scrap/bridge2.jpg

A reference to soviet propaganda? C'mon man.

people need to be aware of what they are communicating when selecting design elements,

and cultivate a conscience about them.

http://www.arashakbar.com/scrap/bridge2.jpg

A reference to soviet propaganda?

If not that, then certainly this: (I submit that even if intended to be amusingly self-mocking, humorous reference to some horrors should remain taboo.)

http://astuteo.com/images/portfolio/madison-com-billboard.jpg

Just to quickly go back to the road vs. train issue, I think while this project is extremely expensive, the proportion of people who use I-94 compared to the number of people who would use a light rail system is much higher than the cost of the road expansion to the cost of a light rail system. Thats not to say I don't support the light rail, but I think people get carried away with opposing roads.... almost everyone uses cars and even if there was a rail alternative, many people need to go to places several miles away from rail stops, like Naperville or Joliet, and it would be extremely unpractical to walk or take a cab everywhere after the train stop.

One more little thing to discourage development in Milwaukee. Great.

http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2009/3/25/#milwaukee-council-approves-wage-ordinance-for-commercial-projects

One more little thing to discourage development in Milwaukee. Great.

http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2009/3/25/#milwaukee-council-approves-wage-ordinance-for-commercial-projects
Say goodbye to ever seeing another building boom in Milwaukee. This is great for the suburbs though.

That ordinance only applies to projects that ask for over $1m in city assistance. While I don't think it was necessary, it won't have too negative of an impact on development. There are very few project to which this will apply.

Yea I wrote about why I didn't think the M.O.R.E. ordinance was a good thing, but as MilwaukeeD points out it would of only impacted 7 (about 1/3 of TIF projects) projects over the last 5 years. So generally it impacts are much much less (possibly none) than it sounds.

From what I can see is that what would likely happen with those projects is they would request a bigger TIF.

So the way this may hurt development is under these 2 methods

1. If a TIF request comes in and the Common Council turns it down because it is too large i.e. oh $40 million instead of say $35 million because the price was inflated.

2 If because these 1/3 of TIF projects keep coming in larger that the city's % of debt cap (ask the comptroller) moves from 48% to 60% as that apparently would impact the city's bond rating.


But remember it only impacted 7 of 25 projects over the last 5 years, and generally those were things like Manpower so they were likely to get a TIF anyhow.

A reference to soviet propaganda? C'mon man.

Ha. Just looking at the use of shadows, the angle, the color scheme (I know... not much choice here), and the 'rays of prosperity', it's very close. It just isn't the most appealing logo to me at all. A small thing; yes, but I still think they could have done better.

Yea I wrote about why I didn't think the M.O.R.E. ordinance was a good thing, but as MilwaukeeD points out it would of only impacted 7 (about 1/3 of TIF projects) projects over the last 5 years. So generally it impacts are much much less (possibly none) than it sounds.

From what I can see is that what would likely happen with those projects is they would request a bigger TIF.

So the way this may hurt development is under these 2 methods

1. If a TIF request comes in and the Common Council turns it down because it is too large i.e. oh $40 million instead of say $35 million because the price was inflated.

2 If because these 1/3 of TIF projects keep coming in larger that the city's % of debt cap (ask the comptroller) moves from 48% to 60% as that apparently would impact the city's bond rating.


But remember it only impacted 7 of 25 projects over the last 5 years, and generally those were things like Manpower so they were likely to get a TIF anyhow.


OK, and um... most of the projects that need a TIF this big are the ones that we're most interested in on this forum, usually because those have the largest scale and impact.

Labor costs are a huge part of these projects and now we've just upped those costs across the board. Even if it only affects lets say one in three projects and makes them unworkable, that would me two or three of our most major projects in the last few years wouldn't have happened.

Not to mention that now the city will probably have to grant larger TIF's for projects AND it gives yet another anti-business/anti-development image to our city.

Not to mention all of this is during a time of recession. I swear, do people really think these things through??

@coldwake

I'm not saying I support the ordinance (I actually wrote on UrbanMilwaukee.com against it) but its potential impacts aren't a widespread as it might appear, or as I originally thought. This is because the threshold isn't really $1 million. Its $1 million of true gap. i.e. If you get TIF money for roads, riverwalk, public space, and infrastructure that doesn't count as part of this threshold. So for example the North End wouldn't of been impact even though they got a $8 million TIF.

Also it doesn't mean that 1/3 TIF projects become unworkable. It means 1/3 of TIF projects will likely request even larger TIFs. My fear is if the Common Council doesn't recognize this at the time they might be afraid of to large a number, so they don't support it.

Additionally, I'm a little worried about the debt level moving to 60% because of these increases but I well we'll see.

But again since it actually only comes into play on a little more than 1 (7 in 5 years) projects a year it isn't as bad as it may seem.

PS I agree on the perception issue as well.

@coldwake

I'm not saying I support the ordinance (I actually wrote on UrbanMilwaukee.com against it) but its potential impacts aren't a widespread as it might appear, or as I originally thought. This is because the threshold isn't really $1 million. Its $1 million of true gap. i.e. If you get TIF money for roads, riverwalk, public space, and infrastructure that doesn't count as part of this threshold. So for example the North End wouldn't of been impact even though they got a $8 million TIF.



Think about that idea though... this ordinance will only affect the projects that need TIFs for the gap between the costs of a project vs what makes it viable. So a project is already saying "hey, our costs are too high but this will really make a great impact on they city" and we're saying "ok, we'll help you out, but we're going to raise your costs even more!"

Why would we raise costs on a project that is already struggling with costs? And yes, they may ask the city for larger tifs because of it, but now thats more money borrowed from the city. OR, they could keep the same amount for the TIF, but find ways around the labor issue by cutting certain areas like general labor. Now, we've just took away a job from the exact person we were trying to get more money for. :nuts:

The Common Council is voting today on a proposal to require developers that receive city financial assistance to pay a "prevailing wage" on their projects. Exception includes developers building apartments for low- and moderate-income renters. The ordinance would take effect on projects that receive assistance of $1 million or more. The proposal excludes funds that pay for road work and other public improvements. But those public improvements are already subject to separate prevailing wage provisions. link (http://www.jsonline.com/business/41794692.html)

I'm still torn on this, here's why: In our economic environment it's both responsible and naive to create a wage-minimum on a local industry. Responsible for its community benefits through a higher wage. Naive to assume a developer isn't going to balance the wage increase by cutting job positions or project quality.

If we're going to increase costs for a developer they're going to want more money from the city, and more time to pay off the loans. If we’re taking that road let’s mandate more sustainable design guidelines that will benefit local stakeholders on the project.

There's nothing to be torn about -- this is bad news for the city of Milwaukee.
With development already scarce, why would you want to hang yourself by making it even more undesireable to do anything in Milwaukee? Shame on Mayor Barrett for not taking a stronger lead on this. Obviously the aldermen who voted for this moronic legislation don't understand simple economics, and the terrible effect this will have on any future development plans in the city.
Also, Tim Sheehy and the Milwaukee Metropolitan Association of Commerce are becoming more and more irrelevant by the week. Where the hell were they on this? There's no muscle behind MMAC at all. Pitiful display of leadership on all fronts.

Cliff lives.

That's actually pretty funny. I like it. Really. :)

My point is not to completely discredit the automobile. I completely understand its importance in this society. The issue I have is that a project this large, costing $1.9 billion, was not debated in the public arena. If I, a member of the public, had been asked I most certainly would've protested a fourth lane of traffic. I understand that the extra lane is comparatively small amount of money on this project, but the affects are costlier.

Also, I refuse to believe that the disproportionality of transit users to auto drivers is entirely by choice. There's simply no alternative to speak of. And I really think that people would choose riding a train over taking a car any day.
If you phrase it this way, I'm sure people would take trains: Would your rather get to point B sitting in a seat the entire way while focusing on a monotonous white striped line, or would your rather lounge around and get drunk on your way. Surely most Americans would rather be drunk.

I just don't understand what's taking so long.

Are you serious about people preferring to take a train over their own car? Alrighty then...

Sure, there are some advantages to training -- working, reading, etc. while you ride -- but for sheer efficiency, how much time do you kill waiting, transferring, additional commuting to work (ie. taxi, bus, walking), not to mention the extra expense associated with it?

As for your reference about getting drunk on the way to work, well...let's just say I'm not too sure I'd want you as my employee, Mr. Knee.

@coldwake

Again I don't think this was a good thing either but my point is that this:

"hey, our costs are too high but this will really make a great impact on they city" and we're saying "ok, we'll help you out, but we're going to raise your costs even more!"

Is almost true. The part that's missing is that we'll pay for it. (which is what concerns me the most)

Again I'm not saying I support it (I don't) but just understand it actually comes in to play very very rarely in regards to TIFs.

PS I'm still am against it... but at the sametime it isn't a deathblow to development in Milwaukee.

That ordinance only applies to projects that ask for over $1m in city assistance. While I don't think it was necessary, it won't have too negative of an impact on development. There are very few project to which this will apply.

Surely, you jest. This impacts most developments of any size. They set $1 million as a ridiculously-low figure so it impacted any large developer. Guess what? Large developments are now headed for the 'burbs or other cities that want development. It's truly amazing that some politicians are actually paid for such imcompetence.

I think any sort of prevailing wage legislation that only targets certain projects is inherently unfair. The larger projects shouldn't be singled out. That's not a good way to legislate.

The city can already negotiate terms on any individual TIF proposal that they would like. If there is public money involved, then they can do whatever they want. But, I think creating a system of disjointed and uncertain rules along with a contentious stance towards developers is not effective. It makes it more difficult to plan these projects. We should be looking for ways to make the process simpler, and streamline these projects -- not adding barriers in a recession.

Surely, you jest. This impacts most developments of any size. They set $1 million as a ridiculously-low figure so it impacted any large developer. Guess what? Large developments are now headed for the 'burbs or other cities that want development. It's truly amazing that some politicians are actually paid for such imcompetence.

Do have any idea how many projects even ask for $1m? Very few.

Again, I am against it, but, fortunately, it won't affect too many projects.

Two questions about this TIF ordinance:

1) If it affects so few projects, what was the point in passing it? If they are going to do that they might as well just pass a TIF cap. I suspect they are just trying to appease people, and that doesn't usually make good legislation.

2) Is the $1 million figure indexed to inflation at all? If not (and I suspect not) then it may not affect all that many projects now, but it may down the road as that $1 million becomes a smaller and smaller figure.

Just to clarify this is not a TIF ordinance, it impacts TIFs but that is just part of the overall ordinance.

#1 Good question.. don't know other than it was something that was negotiated (and I believe was originally lower). To be clear it impacts all public projects and just a few private projects that are requesting a subsidy. Something like 1 to 2 a year.

#2 And no it isn't but you're right it should be... In fact Rocky, DCD, did suggest this but it wasn't implemented. It could be in the future.

That ordinance only applies to projects that ask for over $1m in city assistance. While I don't think it was necessary, it won't have too negative of an impact on development. There are very few project to which this will apply.

Ok, well than it wont be so bad then, thanks.

Could a plus side of this TIF ordinance be that some developers will not consider financial help from the city now?

Per www.jsonline.com, Kilbourn St bridge is half-open with completion in May. That was much faster than the State St bridge!

does anyone know of any updates on MacArthur Square?
http://www3.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=658277
this video is really old, but I had never heard of it until now. pretty cool stuff, long-term based concepts but definitely some awesome ideas.

does anyone know of any updates on MacArthur Square?
http://www3.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=658277
this video is really old, but I had never heard of it until now. pretty cool stuff, long-term based concepts but definitely some awesome ideas.

In the city's Downtown Plan, MacArthur Square is listed as a "Catalytic" project. These projects are being done in two phases. MacArthur Square is in the second phase. Most of the projects have already started or are completed.

Phase 1: Mixed Use Sites
East and West Wisconsin Avenue Revitalization
Historic Third Ward Public Market District
Park East

Phase 1: Access and Public Realm
Transit Connector
Park Once
Riverwalk Completion (Third Ward through Post Office)
Lakefront Connections
Two Way Streets
Kilbourn Ave Streetscape Improvements
City Hall Square Intersection

Phase 2: Contingency Projects
Pabst Brewery Adaptive Reuse
Union Station/Amtrak and Post Office Redevelopment
MacArthur Square

Realtors: City Hall should take over Park East land
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Mar. 31, 2009 11:33 a.m.

The Commercial Association of Realtors Wisconsin has endorsed Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker's proposal to sell county-owned parcels in the Park East area to the City of Milwaukee.

“The City has the tools, resources and expertise to work directly with potential developers and
investors, as well as the County, to ensure the best and most effective use of the property,” said Jim Villa, group president, in a statement.

“Eliminating a layer of governmental jurisdiction and placing the responsibility for progress solely in the hands of one entity is the best plan of action to make sure we see shovels in the ground in the foreseeable future,” Villa said.

Walker has proposed selling the vacant strip for $14.6 million. Mayor Tom Barrett has said the city couldn’t afford to buy the land, but could take over over the job of selling the land for the county.


The county has sold just one Park East parcel, and seen other pending sales collapse. The latest request for proposals received just one response.

However, any changes would require approval from the County Board. And some board members have shown little interest in taking a different approach.

It seems to me the County should work out a legal arrangement that would give approval and management of the project to the City of Milwaukee. But to try to sell the land to the city is basically a bogus option as everybody knows money is short at the county and at the city.

It seems to me the County should work out a legal arrangement that would give approval and management of the project to the City of Milwaukee. But to try to sell the land to the city is basically a bogus option as everybody knows money is short at the county and at the city.

It would make sense if the county would just hand over the land to the city... maybe they could balance any potential money lost in sales with the stimulus money Walker requested..... OH WAIT...!!!!!!!....

@miltown I wouldn't suggest the county just hands the land over, but give over to the city control, as they have the team to handle land sales properly. Further they must break the property into smaller lots, so smaller developers can get involved.

@miltown I wouldn't suggest the county just hands the land over, but give over to the city control, as they have the team to handle land sales properly. Further they must break the property into smaller lots, so smaller developers can get involved.

Your way makes sense... but it just makes me nervous with all of that prime land sitting with the county.... (shutters)

[B][SIZE="4"]
Walker has proposed selling the vacant strip for $14.6 million. Mayor Tom Barrett has said the city couldn’t afford to buy the land, but could take over over the job of selling the land for the county.


The county has sold just one Park East parcel, and seen other pending sales collapse. The latest request for proposals received just one response.

However, any changes would require approval from the County Board. And some board members have shown little interest in taking a different approach.

Assuming City DCD doesn't mind coordinating the RFP process, what problems would the County Board and Executive have with such an idea? Would the amount the County receives somehow be any different? Assuming not, I see it as a win-win situation.

Assuming City DCD doesn't mind coordinating the RFP process, what problems would the County Board and Executive have with such an idea? Would the amount the County receives somehow be any different? Assuming not, I see it as a win-win situation.

The problem is that the county board/Walker have control & competency issues. They are unable to function effectively with one another and fail to improve areas that need attention. They also refuse to let any other organization take on their responsibilities. See social services, parks, and the Park East for examples.

Anyway, the county will probably get less money with the city selling the land, because the city doles out TIF money. So, say the actual value of a parcel is 5 million, the county will try to sell it for 8 million and the developer goes to the city for 3 million in TIF money.

I just hope the city is able to wrest control of the land, as it will mean quicker development and most likely, better quality development.

They put up a fence around the two houses on Kenilworth and Farwell with a sign that says Catalyst Construction on it. I thought that was a New Land development but I can't find the info on it now.

Also, I'm really pleased with the way Educator's Credit Union is turning out. It really fills that block well.

with the city taking control of RFP'ing the park east land....what happens when the city thinks that the land should be sold for $30/SF and the county demands that it be sold for $50/SF? Without the city actually owning the land, they will not be able to negotiate land sale prices.

@ajknee Yes NLE sold that project a couple of months back.

@MilwaukeeD Good point I hadn't thought about that issue... So the point is moot as the city doesn't have the cash to buy the land and Walker knows it.

http://media.jsonline.com/images/pubart01p2.jpg

Public Art Project in Trouble (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/entertainment/42269322.html)

Well, things did not go well at the meeting of the Public Works Committee of the Common Council this morning. Janet Zweig's public art project, which has been in the works for three years, the most significant and promising project to come along in probably a decade, may not happen.

http://media.jsonline.com/images/pubart01p2.jpg

Public Art Project in Trouble (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/entertainment/42269322.html)

Well, things did not go well at the meeting of the Public Works Committee of the Common Council this morning.

This is a good thing. The city should not move forward spending any public tax money on art when their personal finances are in shambles. I do not buy a high end sound system if I just lost my job. That is common sense money management 101. Milwaukee needs to take their $60K portion of the $300K anticipated spend and use that for filling potholes or re-paving. Public art is for when you have excess money to spend.

This is a good thing. The city should not move forward spending any public tax money on art when their personal finances are in shambles. I do not buy a high end sound system if I just lost my job. That is common sense money management 101. Milwaukee needs to take their $60K portion of the $300K anticipated spend and use that for filling potholes or re-paving. Public art is for when you have excess money to spend.

I agree there needs to be a much higher focus on basic infrastructure investment in the city, especially the roads and transit. However, there is such a thing as being penny wise and pound foolish.

For the amount of money the federal government will be kicking in and the importance of the many businesses in the immediate vicinity, this is a great project that I doubt will by stymied by some council members stodgy views on art. Hopefully they come to their senses and approve this, we don't need any more blue shirt references.

This metaphor is less 'buying a stereo system when you lost a job' and more 'buying a new pair of shoes for interviews lined up'.

Well, things did not go well at the meeting of the Public Works Committee of the Common Council this morning. Janet Zweig's public art project, which has been in the works for three years, the most significant and promising project to come along in probably a decade, may not happen.

And are you surprised? And if so, I'd liked to hear why.

@boatnurd In regards to the public arts project the money (60k) has already been committed. At this point the city is just approving the design, so even if they don't approve it the 60k is spent. Point is this wasn't about money.

This metaphor is less 'buying a stereo system when you lost a job' and more 'buying a new pair of shoes for interviews lined up'.

I like that.

And are you surprised? And if so, I'd liked to hear why.

I'm not surprised. An alderman actually left the room during the presentation because he said he didn't want to be associated with anything as "ridiculous" as that.

The artist grew up in Milwaukee, and now lives in Brooklyn. Read this excerpt from the article:

"I see these as quiet little plays about encounters between Milwaukeeans," said Zweig, who will work with area artists and writers this summer to come up with the concepts for the animations. "It will be about Milwaukee - but not the clichés about Milwaukee."

How can you find that ridiculous?

I'm not surprised. An alderman actually left the room during the presentation because he said he didn't want to be associated with anything as "ridiculous" as that.

The artist grew up in Milwaukee, and now lives in Brooklyn. Read this excerpt from the article:

"I see these as quiet little plays about encounters between Milwaukeeans," said Zweig, who will work with area artists and writers this summer to come up with the concepts for the animations. "It will be about Milwaukee - but not the clichés about Milwaukee."

How can you find that ridiculous?

Well, good question. Good grief!

They put up a fence around the two houses on Kenilworth and Farwell with a sign that says Catalyst Construction on it. I thought that was a New Land development but I can't find the info on it now.

What's going there?

This is a good thing. The city should not move forward spending any public tax money on art when their personal finances are in shambles. I do not buy a high end sound system if I just lost my job. That is common sense money management 101. Milwaukee needs to take their $60K portion of the $300K anticipated spend and use that for filling potholes or re-paving. Public art is for when you have excess money to spend.
I believe this is part of the 5% rule or whatever it is and is therefore required by law.

I hope this is a late April fools joke.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4251/trafficlightsmjstraffic.jpg

The decorative lighting cost about $815,000, according to Ryan Luck, project manager for the interchange reconstruction.

Computer operated, the 65 lights cast a changing palette of colors from sunset to sunrise, and add to the interchange aesthetics, which include a mural, ornate piers and ornamental fencing.

Luck said showcasing the interchange is worth the cost, even when hundreds of lights throughout the freeway system remain dark because of budget problems in the transportation department.

"We want to make sure the investment that has already been made on this large infrastructure project is maximized," Luck said. "We want to show that Milwaukee is a dynamic place, open for business, cosmopolitan."

link (http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/42320357.html)

I hope this is a late April fools joke.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4251/trafficlightsmjstraffic.jpg

The decorative lighting cost about $815,000, according to Ryan Luck, project manager for the interchange reconstruction.

Computer operated, the 65 lights cast a changing palette of colors from sunset to sunrise, and add to the interchange aesthetics, which include a mural, ornate piers and ornamental fencing.

Luck said showcasing the interchange is worth the cost, even when hundreds of lights throughout the freeway system remain dark because of budget problems in the transportation department.

"We want to make sure the investment that has already been made on this large infrastructure project is maximized," Luck said. "We want to show that Milwaukee is a dynamic place, open for business, cosmopolitan."

link (http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/42320357.html)

I think it looks badass, actually.

The Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Transit Authority (RTA) announced today plans to pursue federal stimulus funding available for transit to advance both the Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee (KRM) commuter rail connection and public transit in the region.
As part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, a total of $750 million in stimulus money has been authorized for the Federal Transit Authority's (FTA) New Starts and Small Starts Program. Some of these dollars could be secured for the KRM in addition to the $100 million in New Starts capital dollars that could be pursued once dedicated local transit funding is secured as part of the state budget.

link (http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2009/3/31/)

There is a crawler crane that appeared on the site for the new 700 student UWM dorm on North Ave. :) Hopefully something will begin happening there soon. :cheers:

I think it looks badass, actually.

Ditto.

I hope this is a late April fools joke.

I thought you liked artistic touches being added to the city, like the quote about buying new shoes for the interview.

Anyway, I think the lights are wonderful.

Add one more vote to the "I think the lights are awesome" list. Love it. Just like with the Marcus Center, it adds an immense amount of appeal. I hope this starts to become a trend in Milwaukee, with the Domes adding their own accent lighting as well. Big cities want life, and life = light.

I was driving through the interchange the other night and was like 'wth is going on?' and finally realized it was the accent lighting. It was cool to see it lit up but very surprising, especially because it was the very bright purple at the time.

Good addition to the project, hopefully there are similiar artistic touches if/when we have rail projects moving forward.

Can't complain too much about anything with the Marquette Interchange.... IT CAME IN UNDER BUDGET!!!!!! When it seems that most public projects always exceed their target budgets. And I think the lights are kind of cool .

A good first step. However there have been many first steps and few second steps in this development.

Virchow Krause looking downtownFirm could be first tenant in new office building

The Business Journal of Milwaukee - by Pete Millard

Virchow Krause & Co. is negotiating with a Brookfield development firm to become the first tenant in a resurrected downtown Milwaukee office building proposed to replace the U.S. Bank parking structure at the intersection of North Cass and East Michigan streets.

The Milwaukee office of Virchow Krause, currently located at 115 S. 84th St., is seeking 50,000 square feet at the location that was at one time planned as a 42-story, $207 million mixed-use building with condominiums, a hotel, retail and offices owned by JBK Properties.

John Kuhn, president and founder of JBK Properties, never got the project, called Lake Pointe Tower, off the ground and sold the development rights to Hammes Co., Brookfield, according to a Business Journal real estate source who was close to the transaction.

It is likely Hammes would need at least one or two more tenants before proceeding with a project, along with secure financing in a very difficult credit market where few projects are moving forward.

“We are cautiously optimistic something can get done next to the U.S. Bank property on Michigan Street, but we haven’t eliminated other options,” said Kevin Heppner, Virchow Krause president for the Wisconsin region.

Hammes Co.’s Bob Dunn, who is in the firm’s Madison office, is working with Virchow Krause to commit to the development. Virchow Krause is based in Madison.

Virchow Krause, which has 240 Milwaukee-area employees, occupies more than 55,000 square feet on two floors in the Honey Creek Business Park owned by The Geneva Organization, Minneapolis. The firm’s building is near the Zoo Interchange, which will be rebuilt and expanded as part of a major reconstruction project starting in 2012.



http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/04/06/story1.html?b=1238990400^1806001

I thought you liked artistic touches being added to the city, like the quote about buying new shoes for the interview.

Anyway, I think the lights are wonderful.

I do, and I think it looks cool. I just have this thing with spending so much on freeway beautification. I'll get over it.

And about the sister US bank tower development. I hope we see something, even if it's scaled-down.

Lets hope something happens with that LPT site, even if we can't get 42 stories i'd take 30....


Panel approves $240M for UWM

The Wisconsin State Building Commission has approved a $1.4 billion state building program that includes $240 million for the aggressive growth plan of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Gov. Jim Doyle said Thursday.

The plan submitted by the university includes funding for the School of Freshwater Sciences and the School of Public Health in downtown Milwaukee, and the UWM College of Engineering campus in Wauwatosa.

“This is not the time to pull back on investing in worthwhile state building projects that create jobs and help fuel local economies,” Doyle said. “The state building program provides a great opportunity for us to fund needed state projects in ways that are energy efficient and environmentally friendly while creating jobs. We are moving our state forward in areas like science, engineering and green technology and building on the recovery effort at the same time.”

The Building Commission approved the capital budget, which will be submitted to the Joint Finance Committee for consideration and included in the state budget bill.

The $1.4 billion capital budget includes $484.7 million in general fund state bonding with the remainder coming from the federal government, program revenue and private donations. Doyle's office said it is estimated that the state building program adds $220 million to the local economy and adds 2,200 jobs, mainly in the construction and supply industries, for every $100 million invested.

Concordia University Wisconsin will likely build its new School of Pharmacy at its Mequon campus, not at the Pabst brewery site in downtown Milwaukee.

However, the pharmacy school plans to have a small downtown Milwaukee office to oversee its clinical education operations, said Curt Gielow, the school's executive dean.

That office, with 2,000 to 3,000 square feet, could end up at the redeveloped Pabst site, known as The Brewery, he said.

"I continue to be intrigued by The Brewery project," Gielow said.

JSonline (http://www.jsonline.com/business/42456932.html)

Goodwill Industries has signed a lease for the former Private Gardener space at 190 N. Broadway St. in the Third Ward.

Goodwill plans to open a boutique shop, called Retique, with brand name clothing and household items. A grand opening is planned for mid-May. The store also will feature art and crafts made by Goodwill clients.

The fixtures in the 5,343-square-foot store will be recycled items from another retailer. Retique will have a totally different style and look, color scheme and environment from Goodwill's other stores, according to spokeswoman Cheryl Lightholder.[/I]

link (http://www.jsonline.com/newswatch/42553762.html)

I can only imagine how the snobs in the Third Ward would have reacted to an actual Goodwill store!

Former Prospect Mall could become apartments
Hospital workers would be targeted renters under plan

By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Apr. 7, 2009 7:52 p.m.

The former Prospect Mall on Milwaukee's east side would be converted into apartments targeted to workers at a nearby hospital under a tentative plan from a Chicago-based housing developer.

The 42,000-square-foot building, 2217-2239 N. Prospect Ave., which has been vacant since 2006, could be remodeled into around 100 apartments and street-level retail space, said Lisa Kuklinski, director of public affairs for Mercy Housing Lakefront.

The apartments would be aimed at employees of the nearby Columbia St. Mary's Hospital Milwaukee campus, which is being expanded. Kuklinski said Mercy Housing, a nonprofit developer, could form a partnership with Columbia St. Mary's to do the project.

The expansion of Columbia St. Mary's has led to other proposals for nearby apartments, including one for 90 units at the southwest corner of N. Farwell Ave. and E. Kenilworth Place. The project is being done by developer Max Dermond.

Mercy's plans would eventually need zoning approval from the Common Council. Mercy also would need federal affordable housing tax credits to help finance the project. Those credits are provided through a competitive process by the Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority.

To receive affordable housing credits, developers must lease apartments - at below-market rents - to people earning no more than 60% of the Milwaukee area's median income.

For a one-person household, that maximum income is $28,440, and $32,520 for a two-person household, with the limits increasing as the household size increases.

The mall building was purchased in 2004 by development firm BoulderVenture Inc. Since then, the surrounding neighborhood has seen several new investments, including the Whole Foods Market and the creation of student apartments, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee classroom space and retail space at the Kenilworth Building.

Mercy owns several affordable housing developments in Chicago. This summer, Mercy will begin construction on its first Milwaukee project: the conversion of the former Johnston Community Health Center, at 1230 W. Grant St., into around 90 apartments for the homeless. That project will be completed by January 2011, Kuklinski said.

I'd love for apartments to go on that site, but can they PLEASE tear that horrible building down first. On a side, the credit union across the street is looking better every day.

From most of the talk about Milwaukee's downtown boom during this last decade I have gotten the sense that most of this boom consists of residential development. Here's an article from the JSonline site that shows this boom wasn't confined to just residential but in business also.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/42610867.html

Metropolitan Milwaukee was one of only three urban areas nationally to increase its percentage of jobs close to downtown in the last decade, according to a new study by the Brookings Institution.

Opinions?

One of only 3 urban areas national is pretty impressive and was surprising to me.

I saw that in the biztimes, that's pretty interesting. Surprising how much business has left the other downtowns such as Chicago. Go Milwaukee. I guess their tax issues aren't quite as scary to businesses as people think...I still wish they were friendlier though.

@ajknee I actually think if you remove the synthetic stucco (I think that's the material) there is actually a nice brick building hiding below it. Just like the recently completed project in the Third Ward.

http://media.jsonline.com/images/pubart01p2.jpg

Public Art Project in Trouble (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/entertainment/42269322.html)

Well, things did not go well at the meeting of the Public Works Committee of the Common Council this morning. Janet Zweig's public art project, which has been in the works for three years, the most significant and promising project to come along in probably a decade, may not happen.

Public art in Milwaukee has always been crap, anyway.

LOL, yeah, and there's no wasteful spending in your school budget? Every school district has wasteful spending.


http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/42716407.html
The report mostly sidesteps the academic side of MPS, concentrating instead on business operations, from busing to lunch programs to purchasing practices to health insurance policies. It found waste in every area - inefficient payroll processing, overqualified maintenance teams, even pencil sharpeners that cost more than $100. The report also found more than five dozen central office jobs with six-figure salaries.



And now we all know this to be true ;). And yet people still believe the way to solve the problems in our chrildrens education system is to throw more money into it. :doh:

I wonder what Milwaukee County could do with that 103 million, perhaps fix a road or two? Of course, if one pencil sharpener can cost more than $100 dollars, I can only imagine what a 5 gallon pail of tar and 50lb bag of cement costs...You might just end up fixing one road with that 103 million dollar savings.

Thank you... It's about time. And this 100 million dollars is only cracking the surface. If you think this is all the waste there is you are crazy. Spend a few weeks and I'll bet you would at least double that number. I am so tired of liberals saying the school districts need more money and "its for the children". It has nothing to do with the children, its all about keeping status quo. This is a broken system and it needs to be dismantled. Wait until Obama proposes his national health care. You aint seen nothing yet in terms of waste.

Thank you... It's about time. And this 100 million dollars is only cracking the the surface. If you think this is all there is you are crazy. Spend a few weeks and I'll bet you would at least double that number. I am so tired of liberals saying the school districts need more money and "its for the children". It has nothing to do with the children, its all about keeping status quo. This is a broken process and it needs to be dismantled. Wait until Obama proposes his national health care. You aint seen nothing yet in terms of waste.
The sad thing about it is, as soon as you want to point out the wastefulness of government and or the school district and don't agree with spending more, you're labeled as an evil child hating conservative who could care less about our childrens education.

Not everybody in the system is bad but it's time for those who are living fat off the tax payer rolls start fessing up to their highway robbery. And I'm more than sure this isn't just a Milwaukee thing but if they did the same studies in all other cities they would find the same thing going on.

Have you guys heard they're closing the Old Navy downtown? That part of the mall will now only have TJ Maxx and Lane Bryant.

Have you guys heard they're closing the Old Navy downtown? That part of the mall will now only have TJ Maxx and Lane Bryant.
Where did you hear this from?

So besides just complaining about MPS, how does it get fixed? This report isn't groundbreaking stuff, it's just quantifying how much money is being poured down the drain.

We're at point A right now: A mediocre public school system that costs the taxpayers (local & state) too much. The system is unresponsive and unable to meaningfully improve.

How do we get to point B? A quality district(s) that provide quality education to most(all?) students, while providing accountability and fiscal responsibility.


Any takers on this or can we only look forward to more pavlovian MPS bashing?

So besides just complaining about MPS, how does it get fixed? This report isn't groundbreaking stuff, it's just quantifying how much money is being poured down the drain.

Mmmm, no, a few weeks ago I was given a lecture on how there just wasn't enough tax payer money to fix the roads in Milwaukee and that is why part of the Federal stimulus money should help pay for fixing roads. As soon as I suggested that no stimulus money go to pay for it but for the County to end their wasteful spending I was then given a lecture on how there was no wasteful spending.

And if it wasn't for people blindly sticking up for the school district by constantly saying it doesn't do any wrong concerning spending money, there would be no need to bash the MPS.


First of all, there needs to be a freeze on all pay raises on all salary and wage earners within the district, and then talk about pay reductions to those who are being over-paid. They also might look into the retirement funds as well before they find out retireing principals are getting millions of dollars along with "special perks". All unecessary maintenance personel need to be re-evaluated and cuts made. All purchasing within the district needs to have strict oversight by people outside the district system, and health insurance benefits reduced. It's called common sense Jesse.

Seeing that most likely some government bureaucrat will end up doing the purchasing oversight, don't expect much change as any government bureaucrat wont see anything wrong with and or will accept any stupid excuse for spending $100 on a pencil sharpener, so I will volunteer for the job. And I wont ask for 6 figures a year to do it either! :)

This waste is not only in school districts but in all government run agencies. This is why we have a 6-billion dollar state deficit. MPS is at the forefront because it was just disclosed how much waste there really is. Less government is always better. The same waste may be in private industry too but that is not taxpayer money. If private industry wastes too much money, they go out of business. When was the last government agency that went out of business? They are all broke! Beware of government run healthcare as this too will become a bigger MPS.

Old Navy leaving? Too bad that 100 million dollars could not have been kept in the city taxpayer hands. Maybe the taxpayers could have bought more jeans and kept that private industry solvent. That 100 million dollars is aprox $160 for every living person in the city of Milwaukee (600K). And, this is wasted every year!

Where did you hear this from?

I know it they'll be gone by May, and a deal to get Dave and Busters in the Linens and Things space fell through.

This waste is not only in school districts but in all government run agencies. This is why we have a 6-billion dollar state deficit. MPS is at the forefront because it was just disclosed how much waste there really is. Less government is always better. The same waste may be in private industry too but that is not taxpayer money. If private industry wastes too much money, they go out of business. When was the last government agency that went out of business? They are all broke! Beware of government run healthcare as this too will become a bigger MPS.

Then Why isn't the likes of AIG, GM, Fanny Mae, Freddy Mac, Chrysler and any number of other large corporations out of business? It is Obama and his now ever larger government to the rescue. What was once a capitalist country is now becoming a socialist country. What needs to happen is if you (to say the least without using vulger words) f*** up instead of getting a job performance bonus you F***ing lose everything. and the same goes with F***ing local School boards too.

Old Navy leaving? Too bad that 100 million dollars could not have been kept in the city taxpayer hands. Maybe the taxpayers could have bought more jeans and kept that private industry solvent. That 100 million dollars is aprox $160 for every living person in the city of Milwaukee (600K). And, this is wasted every year!

Well, if you figure that not nearly all those 600k people actually own property... you can assume that dollar amount is much higher. Double, triple, quadrupal that figure or more per tax payer?

I know it they'll be gone by May, and a deal to get Dave and Busters in the Linens and Things space fell through.
That's too bad, everytime it starts looking like the Grand Avenue Mall is turning the corner a set back happens, a deal falls through or a store closes.

Then Why isn't the likes of AIG, GM, Fanny Mae, Freddy Mac, Chrysler and any number of other large corporations out of business?

They should be alowed to go under. Other well run organizations will take their good customers and let go the bad. This is true demacracy. Let them fail! Obama should stop propping them up and wasting tax payer money. The mon&pop grocery stores don't get propped up. They fail if they cannot survive and the government does not come to the rescue.

Well, if you figure that not nearly all those 600k people actually own property... you can assume that dollar amount is much higher. Double, triple, quadrupal that figure or more per tax payer?

Those of us who rent are still paying the property taxes through our rent, and as such are taxpayers by proxy. Not to mention that we also pay the income tax, which is also verging on ridiculous.

YA! WHEN THE SCHOOL BOARD MESSES UP WE SHOULD CLOSE ALL THE SCHOOLS DOWN! YA, YOU CANT MANAGE, WE WATCH YOUR BUSINESS COLLAPSE!

YAY FOR FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY! YAY FOR CHILDREN HAVING NO CLASSES, AND NO SCHOOLING. THAT WILL SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS! YAY!

You all sound like a bunch of idiots. This isnt a politics forum. Shut up and move on.

I know it they'll be gone by May, and a deal to get Dave and Busters in the Linens and Things space fell through.

I thought Dave and Buster's was going by Mayfair? And does anyone have an article about Old Navy I haven't heard that until now.

Mmmm, no, a few weeks ago I was given a lecture on how there just wasn't enough tax payer money to fix the roads in Milwaukee and that is why part of the Federal stimulus money should help pay for fixing roads. As soon as I suggested that no stimulus money go to pay for it but for the County to end their wasteful spending I was then given a lecture on how there was no wasteful spending.

And if it wasn't for people blindly sticking up for the school district by constantly saying it doesn't do any wrong concerning spending money, there would be no need to bash the MPS.


First of all, there needs to be a freeze on all pay raises on all salary and wage earners within the district, and then talk about pay reductions to those who are being over-paid. They also might look into the retirement funds as well before they find out retireing principals are getting millions of dollars along with "special perks". All unecessary maintenance personel need to be re-evaluated and cuts made. All purchasing within the district needs to have strict oversight by people outside the district system, and health insurance benefits reduced. It's called common sense Jesse.

Seeing that most likely some government bureaucrat will end up doing the purchasing oversight, don't expect much change as any government bureaucrat wont see anything wrong with and or will accept any stupid excuse for spending $100 on a pencil sharpener, so I will volunteer for the job. And I wont ask for 6 figures a year to do it either! :)

I suppose you misunderstood the question. It's not a matter of saying MPS should just cut spending and have 'common sense'. That's the easy, mindless way out. You can say things should be this or that until you're blue in the face, but it won't change a thing.

The question is, how do you get from point A to B, in this political environment? Does anyone believe the current board has the ability or even will to change the system in necessary ways? (I don't)

So where does that leave us Paule, will you get out your magic wand to make the problems go away?

YA! WHEN THE SCHOOL BOARD MESSES UP WE SHOULD CLOSE ALL THE SCHOOLS DOWN! YA, YOU CANT MANAGE, WE WATCH YOUR BUSINESS COLLAPSE!

YAY FOR FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY! YAY FOR CHILDREN HAVING NO CLASSES, AND NO SCHOOLING. THAT WILL SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS! YAY!

You all sound like a bunch of idiots. This isnt a politics forum. Shut up and move on.

When many schools are half full or empty, yes we should be closing down schools. Only an idiot wouldn't be able to recognize that, wait... are you on the school board?

I suppose you misunderstood the question. It's not a matter of saying MPS should just cut spending and have 'common sense'. That's the easy, mindless way out. You can say things should be this or that until you're blue in the face, but it won't change a thing.

The question is, how do you get from point A to B, in this political environment? Does anyone believe the current board has the ability or even will to change the system in necessary ways? (I don't)

So where does that leave us Paule, will you get out your magic wand to make the problems go away?
Well, I don't understand why you have to have this attitude about this, I'm not the one responsible for that mess, but please excuse me to all hell for posting the article. I guess when we tax payers find out where our money has been wasted we're not supposed to say a word about it, demand that our elected officials are held accountable, or suggest easy and mindless actions that should be taken.

Now that the people see what needs to be done they should demand their elected officials to do those things. Now, if your elected officials don't do those things then you vote them out and replace them with people who will. I know, I know, that's just makes too much sense so I guess the only answer is to keep throwing money at the problem. Most people would rather do the mindless thing and give up and move out.

YA! WHEN THE SCHOOL BOARD MESSES UP WE SHOULD CLOSE ALL THE SCHOOLS DOWN! YA, YOU CANT MANAGE, WE WATCH YOUR BUSINESS COLLAPSE!

YAY FOR FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY! YAY FOR CHILDREN HAVING NO CLASSES, AND NO SCHOOLING. THAT WILL SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS! YAY!

You all sound like a bunch of idiots. This isnt a politics forum. Shut up and move on.


THANK YOU!!!! Maybe we could try and focus on development news here. Someone could create an MPS thread if that is such a hot topic at the moment.

YA! WHEN THE SCHOOL BOARD MESSES UP WE SHOULD CLOSE ALL THE SCHOOLS DOWN! YA, YOU CANT MANAGE, WE WATCH YOUR BUSINESS COLLAPSE!

YAY FOR FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY! YAY FOR CHILDREN HAVING NO CLASSES, AND NO SCHOOLING. THAT WILL SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS! YAY!

You all sound like a bunch of idiots. This isnt a politics forum. Shut up and move on.
Not one person here suggested or implied that schools be shut down so stop throwing your fit. And with all due respect, politics has alot to do with city development and has often been discussed here in this forum. All the yelling and screaming you do isn't going to change it.

THANK YOU!!!! Maybe we could try and focus on development news here. Someone could create an MPS thread if that is such a hot topic at the moment.
So post something about development, no ones stopping you. If you don't like the current topic that some are talking about don't read the posts. Just like watching tv, if you don't like whats on, turn the channel.

Here's a development topic: Anyone think there is any possibility that an expansion of the Milwaukee convention center might happen in the next few years? That would be one thing that could help Grand Avenue -- Of course it would likely cost $100 - $200 million or more for a decent sized expansion. Anyone hear any discussions about that possibility lately? There was talk a few years ago - but haven't heard anything recently.

I haven't heard anything...and I'm not quite sure how it would help the Grand Avenue. But I would like to see the streetwall on Kilbourn put back together.

Grand Ave is only a few blocks from the Midwest Center. It needs shoppers. Big conventions bring people to town who are looking for something to do. They'll cruise through a downtown shopping mall and some of the conventioneers will buy some things.

In Indpls, the Convention Center is about a block from Circle Centre (Indy's downtown mall). Estimates are that about 40 -50 percent of the business at Circle Centre comes from Conventioneers. Indy's Convention Center is twice as big as Milwaukee's - so there are many more conventioneers in town. But likewise, if Milwaukee's convention center was expanded - by 50% or doubled in size - it would mean that many more people shopping at Grand Ave. Indpls is doubling its convention center from 400,000 sq feet to 750,000 sq. feet - so the numbers of shoppers will likely be increasing again at Circle Centre. If it wasn't for the Indpls Convention Center, Circle Centre would really be struggling. Right now it is doing well (a lot better than many of the suburban shopping malls) - and with the conv. center expansion opening in 2010 - Circle Centre will be doing even better in another year or two.

The restaurant scene has been getting better and better too. Much of the reason again is due to all of the people downtown for conventions. Of course, with more shopping and restaurants (and other attractions) - more people want to move downtown also. So downtown housing development continues to be strong.

Anyway - enough about Indy - but I hope that answers your question AJKnee about how a convention center expansion could help Grand Avenue. It could definitely help - the difficult question is trying to figure out how to pay for the expansion and decide if the cost of building it will be worth the potential benefits received.

Good point to make GarfieldPark, It does work real well for Indy. As for Milwaukee, I think this economy has put an end to any talk of expanding the convention center, at least for anytime in the near future.

Not one person here suggested or implied that schools be shut down so stop throwing your fit.

What needs to happen is if you (to say the least without using vulger words) f*** up instead of getting a job performance bonus you F***ing lose everything. and the same goes with F***ing local School boards too.

There

The problem I see with expanding the convention center is that it is just an arms race we can't win. Expand it then somebody elses gets bigger and so on. Further the thing is a huge superblock with little streetlife. If they wrapped the thing with retail (bars/restaurants) then maybe I could see the expansion, but otherwise I'm not sure it really helps as much as it hurts.

There

I didn't take that as him saying schools should be shut down but will admitt he was rather vague in what he was wanting to say and wont fault anyone for thinking what they will about it.

I just think this is important to talk about because just think about what the city or county could do with that money if they can end the wasteful spending. Alot of that money could go towards helping worth while development get started within the city but this odviously is a hot button issue that either gets people pissed about the news of it or pissed that it's even talked about, so I am now more than willing to just drop the whole thing.

The problem I see with expanding the convention center is that it is just an arms race we can't win. Expand it then somebody elses gets bigger and so on. Further the thing is a huge superblock with little streetlife. If they wrapped the thing with retail (bars/restaurants) then maybe I could see the expansion, but otherwise I'm not sure it really helps as much as it hurts.

And this is why I've always thought the Catalyst proposal is so important.

@Paule Agreed that is why the Catalyst is so important. Even the scaled down version would have the type of bars/restaurants that would work with the convention center. And in fact the scaled back Epicentre (Ghazi's Charlotte project which is very much like the Catalyst) has done pretty well with that.

As far as the MPS stuff goes the one way that I see it connecting to development is that I believe the process MPS uses for land sales isn't great. MPS hires a law firm and broker to do this, instead of handing the property to DCD to redevelop. Further there a couple restrictions on their land sales which slow sales as well. Although this wouldn't do anything to make the schools better I think DCD handling these sales, completely, would be better for the city.

@Paule Agreed that is why the Catalyst is so important. Even the scaled down version would have the type of bars/restaurants that would work with the convention center. And in fact the scaled back Epicentre (Ghazi's Charlotte project which is very much like the Catalyst) has done pretty well with that.

Yeah, and I know most of us aren't too pleased with the recent scaled down version of the project; the tower was first at 31 floors now it's at 12 and the hotel was at 10 but now is at 4, the emphasis on the entertainment is still there. So whatever form this project takes it will always be a major plus for the city and it needs to be done.

There

Happy Easter to you!

And what was meant by the last statement was and is "those school board officials need to be voted out of office." But as is often the case most people don't vote these people out for whatever reason so you end up with the mess that is running rampant not just in Milwaukee but just about every school district.

Have a nice holliday.

I thought Dave and Buster's was going by Mayfair? And does anyone have an article about Old Navy I haven't heard that until now.

Dave and Busters is still going in at Mayfair, this was a different location. The Old Navy thing hasn't been announced yet. When Linen n Things closed it allowed ON to break their lease. I hope it's not a chain effect on the Plainkinton Arcade.

http://media.jsonline.com/images/pabst13p9.jpg

At a time when many large real estate projects are bottoming out, the reinvention of downtown Milwaukee's Pabst brewery remains on tap.

The former brewery's first redeveloped commercial building just welcomed its largest tenant and is mostly full.

JSonline.com (http://www.jsonline.com/business/42885472.html)

Dave and Busters is still going in at Mayfair, this was a different location. The Old Navy thing hasn't been announced yet. When Linen n Things closed it allowed ON to break their lease. I hope it's not a chain effect on the Plainkinton Arcade.

I hope it is a chain effect on the Plankinton Arcade. There's not much left there, and once it's all gone we can tear down those stupid plexiglass walls and restore it into a real arcade. That said, I hope this plague doesn't move into the Western half of the mall. Also, TJ Maxx is great and I would miss it, but it doesn't belong in that location. Maybe we can get another building in downtown to lure them out.

Instead of having the stores in the arcade spanning across the middle isles, couldn't they make the shops, 2, or even three floors tall and just stay on one side of the arcade.

Here's a development topic: Anyone think there is any possibility that an expansion of the Milwaukee convention center might happen in the next few years? That would be one thing that could help Grand Avenue -- Of course it would likely cost $100 - $200 million or more for a decent sized expansion. Anyone hear any discussions about that possibility lately? There was talk a few years ago - but haven't heard anything recently.
This was in the paper a while back:

Wisconsin Center won't seek stimulus funding
By Don Walker of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Jan. 19, 2009

The chairman of the Wisconsin Center District board said this morning that the district would not make application for possible funding of an expanded Midwest Airlines Center under the $800 billion federal economic stimulus package.

Franklyn Gimbel said he had had a conversation with Gov. Jim Doyle and state Rep. Mike Sheridan (D-Janesville), the speaker of the Assembly, about the possibility of applying for funding.

Gimbel said both officials said they were looking for so-called "shovel in the ground readiness" projects that would be part of any federal stimulus package.

Gimbel said the district was in the process of selecting a consultant, who will be asked to look into the feasibility of expanding the convention center. For several years, Gimbel and other district board members have argued that Milwaukee's convention center cannot compete for national business because of relatively small size of the convention center.

If a consultant recommends that the convention center should be expanded, the next step will be an effort to engage political support, Gimbel said.

Thanks Eriol for the update.

I know that convention centers are a constant game of oneupmanship, but in our case, the original design has never been finished. We need to get that last section on the north side done. I doubt it could get going until the economy turns around.

Fortunately, the space allows for options, such as a taller building or even an arena coupled into it, either above or below the convention floor. Although I don't know if the space is large enough for an 18 to 20,000 seat arena such as is needed, including all the bells and whistles. Maybe they could retrofit the existing building where it currently ends.

Then the question is: do we keep the BC for hockey and make the new one just for basketball?

I'd reckon that we tear the BC down. It is a good spot for some type of commercial development. Then make the new, fancy basketball arena for Bucks, Marquette, and Hockey.

I'd reckon that we tear the BC down. It is a good spot for some type of commercial development. Then make the new, fancy basketball arena for Bucks, Marquette, and Hockey.

Fact is, the BC was designed not only as a new home for the bucks, but also to lure an NHL team to Milwaukee, and as such has better sight lines for Hockey. (Just one reason renovating it for the Bucks would be difficult) The NHL team never materialized, (thanks Chicago Blackhawks) and so the idea of keeping the 20 year old building around to continue to try for the NHL is unrealistic. So building a new arena that is tailored for Basketball makes the most sense.

By Steve Schultze of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Apr. 14, 2009 11:50 a.m.


Journal Sentinel art and architecture critic Mary Louise Schumacher has followed the debate about Janet Zweig's public art project. Read all about it in her Art City blog.

Facing the loss of about $50,000 and a strong show of support, the Milwaukee Common Council on Tuesday approved a "flip art" public art project for E. Wisconsin Ave.

The council voted 12-2 to approve the final design of a series of installations on five light poles that will include flip signs reminiscent of old railroad station destination signs. Instead of city names, however, artist Janet Zweig plans to incorporate silhouette images that appear to move.

The specifics haven't been created yet, but local dancers from the Milwaukee Ballet, Ko-Thi Dance and Danceworks companies have been invited to participate as models for the flip-sign animation.

Aldermen earlier had objected to being brought into the process too late.

The council was warned that any delay in the design approval could kill the project. Some also advised that the council shouldn't get into the art criticism business.

"Any time a governmental entity begins to address the quality of public art, we start to tread down a slippery slope," said Ald. Tony Zielinski. He noted that a Picasso sculpture in downtown Chicago now viewed as a masterpiece had been controversial before it was approved, with some Chicago aldermen saying they would have preferred a statue of Chicago Cubs baseball great Ernie Banks.

Ald. Robert Donovan, one of the two no votes, said he'd be more inclined to vote for the Milwaukee art project if it were a statue of Ernie Banks.

Aldermen learned late Monday that if the city backed out of the project, it was still obligated to pay Zweig nearly $42,000 for the design, plus additional expenses. The total cost of the project is about $300,000, with federal funds covering 80% and local taxpayer money covering the rest.

In addition to Donovan, Ald. Joe Dudzik voted no. Aldermen Ashanti Hamilton, Joe Davis Sr., Nik Kovac, Robert Bauman, James Bohl Jr., Milele Coggs, Willie C. Wade, Robert Puente, Michael Murphy, James Witkowiak, Terry Witkowski and Zielinski voted in favor of the design.

Fact is, the BC was designed not only as a new home for the bucks, but also to lure an NHL team to Milwaukee, and as such has better sight lines for Hockey. (Just one reason renovating it for the Bucks would be difficult) The NHL team never materialized, (thanks Chicago Blackhawks)
Actually, the Pettits were all set to get an expansion team back in about '89 or '90 but the application fee was raised to $50 million and they said forget it. That franchise apparently went to Tampa Bay.


And I am glad the art was approved. That is always a good thing, even if the art isn't to everyone's liking. I have always liked "The Calling" by di Suvero that so many people criticize and I think it's position in front of the Calatrava is perfect.

The controversy is exactly why art is so good for us. Everyone has an opinion about it.

It's probably good the city never got an NHL team. I'm not sure if Milwaukee can be a 3-sport town unless it grows quite a bit more.

It's probably good the city never got an NHL team. I'm not sure if Milwaukee can be a 3-sport town unless it grows quite a bit more.

We have pro-hockey, but's in AHL.

I think that's why we never got one. Milwaukee most likely couldn't support three teams and one would probably suffer. I personally am a huge hockey fan and would love more than anything to see an NHL team here but it's just not realistic right now, and I don't want to see the Bucks leave because they have history here. Plus the fact that the Badger hockey team is really popular and is a short drive from Milwaukee, there's not enough fan base to go around. But it is cool that we at least have a good farm team in the Admirals though. Consistently one of the best semi-pro teams in hockey.

Does anyone know anything about this?

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6067/communitysailingcenterp.jpg

Isn't that what they wanted to build at McKinley Marina?

Minneapolis-based U.S. Bancorp is seeking tax exempt bonds through the city of Milwaukee's Redevelopment Authority to replace the parking structure for the U.S. Bank Center at 777 E. Wisconsin Ave. in downtown Milwaukee.

The three-story parking structure, located immediately south of the 42-story U.S. Bank Center, will be demolished and replaced with a 7.5-level structure with 896 parking spaces. One level of the parking structure will be under ground. The cost of the project is $19 million.

The Redevelopment Authority will consider the request for tax exempt bonds for the project during its meeting on Thursday.

The parking structure needs to be replaced because it is deteriorating, according to U.S. Bancorp. Vehicles are no longer permitted to park on top of the structure, because of the deterioration.

The new parking structure will be taller and narrower than the existing structure, so its footprint will be considerably smaller than the existing structure. That will open up some land on the block that could be used for a future development.

U.S. Bank hired Brookfield-based Hammes Co. to help create a redevelopment plan for the parking structure property.

Representatives for U.S. Bank and Hammes could not be reached for comment.

http://www.biztimes.com/realestateweekly/2009/4/15/#us-bank-to-replace-parking-structure

The new parking structure will be taller and narrower than the existing structure, so its footprint will be considerably smaller than the existing structure. That will open up some land on the block that could be used for a future development.

I would really like to know which land that would open up for development?

but no matter what, at least they are building the ramp taller, 3 stories is pretty short for any sort of parking garage, at least with seven stories people parking their cars will have a nice view across the highway to the third ward. :P

Does anyone know anything about this?

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6067/communitysailingcenterp.jpg

It has been planned for at least 4 years... I think they were trying to raise funds for the project, but that was 4 years ago. Not sure if they are still planning it.

"It" has been planned? What is it?

"It" has been planned? What is it?

It was a new building for the Milwaukee Community Sailing Center, I believe. I guess they are still planning on building it.

There is no way Milwaukee could support both the Bucks and an NHL team. Maybe an MLS team. I am not convinced that people in this market even like hockey.

There is no way Milwaukee could support both the Bucks and an NHL team. Maybe an MLS team. I am not convinced that people in this market even like hockey.

Don't count on that, i would bet good money that an okay hockey team would out draw our normally terrible bucks... and I'm not really a hockey fan... The admirals recently had over 16,000 people for a game, and they are minor league hockey. The bucks on the other hand play like they are in the minor leagues.

Great to hear that the art piece got approved. Yeah, I think decisions on what is good art and what is bad art should not be left to the Aldermen! I like the piece. I like the changing signs in the train stations - and I think this twist on that idea will look great too. Just FYI, I'm from Indpls. Weve got a few things on our SSC Indianapolis page right now (April 15th) talking about some public art projects going up in Indy right now. Some pretty wild things. If you feel like checking them out, you might find them interesting. One involves scents, another is huge, lights up, and is pretty bizarre looking and the third is just funny. Its just interesting to compare what is going on in similar, Midwest cities with their public art ideas.

http://media.journalinteractive.com/images/CRIME16G.jpg

Reports of crime in Milwaukee dropped by nearly 17% in the first three months of 2009 compared with the same period last year, with violent crime falling even further, Police Chief Edward Flynn announced Wednesday.

The new numbers come after the city recorded a 6% drop in reported crimes in all of 2008 compared with the year before.

During the first three months of 2009, reports of crime were down broadly across several categories, highlighted by a 30% drop in auto theft and a 23% drop in aggravated assault, police figures show. (LINK (http://www.jsonline.com/business/))

Now that is good news :)

That is very good news. You know, I'm really starting to feel that Milwaukee is guaranteed to take off as the next big "IT" city as soon as the recession wears off. Talking to other people from around the states, it seems like A LOT of people are starting to Want to be in Milwaukee. And the positive press, like what's above, can only help.
For that reason, I say hold off on certain projects until after the recession...projects like the US Bank garage, the Ghazi project, and a few of the parcels in the Park East. We don't want another Aloft Hotel when we could be getting a Ritz in a couple of years. (No, I don't really expect a Ritz but you get the idea.)
Now let's get these rails going.

That is very good news. You know, I'm really starting to feel that Milwaukee is guaranteed to take off as the next big "IT" city as soon as the recession wears off. Talking to other people from around the states, it seems like A LOT of people are starting to Want to be in Milwaukee. And the positive press, like what's above, can only help.
For that reason, I say hold off on certain projects until after the recession...projects like the US Bank garage, the Ghazi project, and a few of the parcels in the Park East. We don't want another Aloft Hotel when we could be getting a Ritz in a couple of years. (No, I don't really expect a Ritz but you get the idea.)
Now let's get these rails going.

Milwaukee has a long way to go, but I do think it is poised for a boom, if not mostly because of its healthy, nice downtown and proximity to Chicago.

I remember visiting the UW-M campus back in 2002 when I was looking at where I'd enroll, and Milwaukee was nothing even then compared to what it is now! Milwaukee is, for the first time in a long while, genuinely a place that people enjoy. Before, when telling people you were from Milwaukee, I always sensed this current of "Yeah, yeah, I know, it sucks, I admit it." Now it's the exact opposite.

What we need to start doing is attracting people from outside Wisconsin (i.e. the rest of the midwest), though. And we've been pretty unsuccessful in that regard.

That's exactly what I'm saying. It IS happening outside of Wisconsin. Here's a quick story. I was in Cincinnati a few weeks ago, and when I walked into a store called Park+Vine the guy behind the counter was telling his friend "Have you ever been to Milwaukee?" The other guy said something like "No, but I've been wanting to go, why?" The guy behind the counter responded with "I went last week and had a blast..." He went on to mention the water, the cleanliness, the historic architecture, the Third Ward, the East Side, the bike trails, the parks, etc. It kind of threw me for a loop. So I told him that I was visiting from Milwaukee and he got all wide-eyed and asked me if I knew of Comet Cafe!?!

People ARE talking. What surprised me the most about that interaction was the reaction of the guy that wasn't behind the counter. When he was asked if he'd been there, his response was not "why?" but rather a genuine desire to go.

We're getting good press from somewhere...not sure where, but it's happening.

Wow, that's really cool to hear. I would love nothing more than for Milwaukee to become an out of state destination, it's becoming such a great place and it's good to know that others are taking notice. And also great news about the crime rate falling, that's about the best kind of news you can get when you want to attract people to your city. On Milwaukee!

My brother in law was from Virginia and when he visited Milwaukee two or so years ago with some of his East Coast buddies, they were all very surprised at the liveliness, cleanliness, and of course, the big beautiful lake.

With that said, these things happen slowly. But they do accelerate, so hopefully soon we'll be out of the warming up phase and start accelerating.

One thing, though... they need to get rid of that orange metal thing in front of the Art Museum.

Enough with the di Suvero bashing already. That thing's not going anywhere. I think they need to get rid of that ugly, five story roadway mess with tacky color changing lights that blocks my view of the skyline from the Hank Aaron State Trail, but that's not going anywhere either. So simmer down, grab a beer, and enjoy the quirks that make our city so great.

Also, does anyone know anything about those two houses on Farwell and Kenilworth? They've started poking holes in the sides of them. And it looks like the site goes all the way around the rug shop to the Oak Leaf Trail. Does anyone have a rendering of what's supposed to go in there?

@ajknee here's a link to one of the renderings http://urbanmilwaukee.com/2008/12/03/new-land-enterprises-kenilworth-apartment-development-informational-meeting

It is important to know that this is no longer a NLE project, as it was sold to another firm, but this is the design they are working on.

Wow, that's really cool to hear. I would love nothing more than for Milwaukee to become an out of state destination, it's becoming such a great place and it's good to know that others are taking notice. And also great news about the crime rate falling, that's about the best kind of news you can get when you want to attract people to your city. On Milwaukee!

I'd imagine the Harley Davidson museum would help bring people (tourists) from across the country over here.

Don't count on that, i would bet good money that an okay hockey team would out draw our normally terrible bucks... and I'm not really a hockey fan... The admirals recently had over 16,000 people for a game, and they are minor league hockey. The bucks on the other hand play like they are in the minor leagues.

I think that those statistics are skewed because the Ads have concerts after alot of their games. Out of those 16,000, most were probally there to see Styx, Darius Rucker of Hootie and the Blowfish, or the Village People.

I can tell you though, that if the Bucks do leave----we need an NHL team. This city can't bear losing something else that makes us a major, relevant city. Its possible that the NHL could work here because alot of people I talk to are simply disgusted at what the NBA has become (professional wrestling). The Badgers have the highest attendance in the NCAA and hockey is pretty popular statewide--so there could be support there. I just don't think your going to get alot of support from within the city of Milwaukee taking a gander at particular demographics.

That is very good news. You know, I'm really starting to feel that Milwaukee is guaranteed to take off as the next big "IT" city as soon as the recession wears off. Talking to other people from around the states, it seems like A LOT of people are starting to Want to be in Milwaukee. And the positive press, like what's above, can only help.
For that reason, I say hold off on certain projects until after the recession...projects like the US Bank garage, the Ghazi project, and a few of the parcels in the Park East. We don't want another Aloft Hotel when we could be getting a Ritz in a couple of years. (No, I don't really expect a Ritz but you get the idea.)
Now let's get these rails going.

Milwaukee could take off, but I think we need a change in government for it to ever happen. People are not going to be looking towards Milwaukee if we continue raising taxes to pay for a grossly underperforming school system. When you can count on one hand the number of schools that you would want to send your kid to---something's got to change. People are going to balk at the thought of raising a child here when they see our graduation statistics and the constant, highly publicized brawls that occur in these places.

Aside from this stuff, Milwaukee is a wonderful city with alot of things that could be appealing to people. The lakefront, the parks (with urban golfing!), great architecture, cool neighorhoods, universities, pretty good nightlife, and the sheer amount of things to do, particularly in summer. The dropping crime/murder rate is also encouraging. If only the neighorhoods on the Northside could be revitalized. Those parts of town have so much potential (beautiful neighorhoods/houses), yet seemingly are going to remain ghetto hellholes that everbody is going to avoid.

I agree with your statement about fixing the schools. I don't know how to fix them or what it will take, but something needs to be done, the status quo isn't working, Milwaukee's students performance needs to increase before we can become an 'it' city. Perhaps breaking it into several school districts would work. Perhaps some other solution will present itself.

As far as revitalizing the north-west side, there are plenty of things that you can do which would help. The Milwaukee Habitat for Humanity chapter is always looking for more volunteers and donations, and all of their building are clustered together to revitalize specific neighborhoods (some of which are on the northwest side) and are built as infill on vacant lots, so if you ever have a free day or weekend and want to get your hands dirty.

I think the Milwaukee hype started with the Santiago Calatrava addition to the MAM.

go Milrockee!

Milwaukee could take off, but I think we need a change in government for it to ever happen. People are not going to be looking towards Milwaukee if we continue raising taxes to pay for a grossly underperforming school system. When you can count on one hand the number of schools that you would want to send your kid to---something's got to change. People are going to balk at the thought of raising a child here when they see our graduation statistics and the constant, highly publicized brawls that occur in these places.

Aside from this stuff, Milwaukee is a wonderful city with alot of things that could be appealing to people. The lakefront, the parks (with urban golfing!), great architecture, cool neighorhoods, universities, pretty good nightlife, and the sheer amount of things to do, particularly in summer. The dropping crime/murder rate is also encouraging. If only the neighorhoods on the Northside could be revitalized. Those parts of town have so much potential (beautiful neighorhoods/houses), yet seemingly are going to remain ghetto hellholes that everbody is going to avoid.

I'm not sure what inherent economic growth could cause Milwaukee to "take off" in and by itself, but if it could tie its fortunes to Chicago and indirectly market itself as a cheaper, more relaxed alternative to Chicago while still having access to its larger brother as well as similar lakefront amenities, Milwaukee could have a bit of a mini-boom.

I sure would like to see that happen. As Chicago experiences a domestic migration of people "out" from the region, Milwaukee could be well positioned to receive a lot of those people. When I was interviewing in Racine, I learned that the MAJORITY of the people in my field working in the site that I had visited in SE Wisconsin were from the Chicago area, as opposed to being from other parts of Wisconsin.

The Milwaukee Habitat for Humanity chapter is always looking for more volunteers and donations, and all of their building are clustered together to revitalize specific neighborhoods (some of which are on the northwest side) and are built as infill on vacant lots, so if you ever have a free day or weekend and want to get your hands dirty.

What an excellent point Honest. I encourage everyone to look into this as a volunteer opportunity. I would jump on the chance to do this, but I would have to commute from Madison, and that could get old after a hard day of physical work.

I agree with your statement about fixing the schools. I don't know how to fix them or what it will take, but something needs to be done, the status quo isn't working, Milwaukee's students performance needs to increase before we can become an 'it' city. Perhaps breaking it into several school districts would work. Perhaps some other solution will present itself.

As far as revitalizing the north-west side, there are plenty of things that you can do which would help. The Milwaukee Habitat for Humanity chapter is always looking for more volunteers and donations, and all of their building are clustered together to revitalize specific neighborhoods (some of which are on the northwest side) and are built as infill on vacant lots, so if you ever have a free day or weekend and want to get your hands dirty.

Alot of this starts with the people themselves taking initiave. When it comes to education, the people are going to have to carry some of the load themselves. Currently, we have an enormous population of people who just don't seem to care---about anything. That is going to have to change if this city wants to evolve. We can triple the school budget and it won't make a lick of difference unless the kids want to be educated. Just look at countries around the world with tiny budgets, that kill our students in testing.

Habitat for Humanity is a good idea, but like education---we need the people of these neighorhoods to want to take pride in their neighorhoods. These neighorhoods I speak of, are literally trash dumps---with empty bags of Cheetos blowing around like tumbleweeds. Unless the people start removing the criminal/drug elements and become more positive about their neighorhoods---the only way these places are truly going to be revitalized is through gentrification. Similar to whats occuring in Riverwest. Gentrification is a naughty word on here, but I think its helping Milwaukee.

I'm not sure what inherent economic growth could cause Milwaukee to "take off" in and by itself, but if it could tie its fortunes to Chicago and indirectly market itself as a cheaper, more relaxed alternative to Chicago while still having access to its larger brother as well as similar lakefront amenities, Milwaukee could have a bit of a mini-boom.

I sure would like to see that happen. As Chicago experiences a domestic migration of people "out" from the region, Milwaukee could be well positioned to receive a lot of those people. When I was interviewing in Racine, I learned that the MAJORITY of the people in my field working in the site that I had visited in SE Wisconsin were from the Chicago area, as opposed to being from other parts of Wisconsin.

Yes, better ties to Chicago would be great for Milwaukee. Just imagine Maglev technology running between the two cities---or even just high speed rail (110 mph is a joke, lets be honest). It would then be conceivable that people could live in Milwaukee and commute to Chicago, with relative ease. People from the Chicago area are some of the biggest investors in places like the Third Ward (from what I hear), so I think added high speed rail would make the city even more alluring. Milwaukee is very well positioned, being so near one of the most important cities in the world. Taking advantage of that is necessary for the future of Milwaukee.

I just wish they'd tear down the highway so that the third ward could actually feel "connected" to downtown. Not to mention that bridge that, for reasons unknown, is practically as high as the US Bank Building.

Whoever planned that... ugh

I was exploring Google news and look at what I came across!

"A second large tenant is considering locating in a proposed new office building on East Michigan Street in downtown Milwaukee, giving the long-discussed project more hope of finally occurring.

The law firm of von Briesen & Roper SC, currently located in the 411 Building, 411 E. Wisconsin Ave., is seeking about 75,000 square feet and will explore the possibility of relocating to 833 E. Michigan St. if the developer of the proposed project, Hammes Co., can find enough tenants and secure financing to get the building off the ground.


The law firm is the second professional services business exploring the new building, which would be directly south of the U.S. Bank Building, 777 E. Wisconsin Ave., and would replace that building’s parking structure. As The Business Journal reported April 3, Hammes Co., of Brookfield, is in discussions with Virchow Krause & Co. LLP about leasing 50,000 square feet for its Milwaukee-area office."

Link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/04/20/story1.html?b=1240200000^1813543)

:cheers:

Lets do this mother#%*#er!

@Badgers I'm with you. If the built a new Hoan bridge that is lower, they could remove some of the freeway ramps and better tie the Third Ward in to downtown. Plus put some serious lake view real estate on the market.

Also for those talking about the apartment project at E. Kenilworth Place and N.Farwell Avenue this is the site in question:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3604/3451041238_6a381e6697.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davereid/3451041238/)

And here's the latest story on the project:
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/01/26/story4.html

Luckily, it sounds like the city wants the Hoan Bridge gone just as much.

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/08/25/story1.html

What I'd like to see is for them to tear it all down, put it somewhere else, and then turn those parking lots into beautiful park area for the Third Ward and the Summerfest Grounds.

Not to mention that bridge that, for reasons unknown, is practically as high as the US Bank Building.

Whoever planned that... ugh

The bridge was supposed to be high enough for large ships to pass underneath. Ironically, (or comically), if I recall correctly, it wasn't built high enough for that intended purpose.

I personally have no objection to its appearance, though I certainly won't argue with the fact that the elevated freeway really rips apart the edge of Downtown. At least, and it's a great big at least, the full freeway noose around downtown never materialized. A very rare instance in this region when citizen wisdom overcame the conformist me-too-ism of the entrenched business leadership of that time.
We've come a long way from those sad, sad days, 'though we still hear echoes of "more freeways are the only solution", don't we, even on these enlightened pages.

The bridge was supposed to be high enough for large ships to pass underneath. Ironically, (or comically), if I recall correctly, it wasn't built high enough for that intended purpose.


No, the bridge is indeed tall enough to allow passage of large, tall ships.

I was exploring Google news and look at what I came across!



Link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/04/20/story1.html?b=1240200000^1813543)

:cheers:

Lets do this mother#%*#er!

This is getting more and more exciting!

So no one here is excited about Lake Point Tower landing a second major tenant?

So no one here is excited about Lake Point Tower landing a second major tenant?
Perhaps you posted 1 minute too soon, LOL. Yes I am excited! Whoo-hoo!!! :banana:


Just, lets not get ahead of ourselves. That article didn't say this law firm was "landed" but they were considering it. They said that they "will explore the possibility of relocating" into it if the developer can land enough other tenents.

Yeah, it sounds like its more than just "thinking about it" though, and more "If it gets built, we will very seriously think about going."

Either way, we need this tower. Seriously. Milwaukee needs a second "REAL skyscraper" to take attention of the hideousity of the US Bank Tower.

People from the Chicago area are some of the biggest investors in places like the Third Ward (from what I hear), so I think added high speed rail would make the city even more alluring.

Surprisingly UWM just released a research study (previously posted) with findings on demographics of condo buyers downtown.

The results: Of the 2,435 (http://www.mkedcd.org/DowntownMilwaukee/Development/index.html) condo units built downtown between 2000-2007, most owners were older couples with kids.

But you're point is totally valid with Third Ward retail. Most of the boutiques there once had locations in Chicago, but moved.

No, the bridge is indeed tall enough to allow passage of large, tall ships.

Mark where you been?

I'm definitely excited about the new talks of the Lake Point Tower, didn't we already talk about that last week though? I thought that article was already posted. At least I saw it. And it would be a great addition to the city.

The renewed writing about the Hoan Bridge in this thread reminded me of this article which appeared in Milwaukee Magazine a couple of months ago. I recall there being a few conceptual plans being discussed for the port area in conjunction with the idea of removing the Hoan Bridge. I think this article provides some interesting background information regarding the Port of Milwaukee:


Story of a Harbor
The Port of Milwaukee is bigger than Chicago’s and vital to our economy. It’s our doorway to an exotic, international marketplace. by Leah Dobkin

http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/currentIssue/full_feature_story.asp?NewMessageID=24470

[a 3 paragraph snippet of the lengthy article]


The New Boom
Water transit seems so old-fashioned that many may think the Port of Milwaukee’s heyday was the 1950s or ’60s. In fact, the port has done better in the last five years than at any time in the intervening decades.

The port’s gross income in 2007 increased 24 percent over 2006, and its 2008 traffic was expected to decline, but only slightly. The port’s strength is that it’s well-diversified and connected with so many modes of transportation. Most ports do not have all these connections that enable Milwaukee to offer competitive shipping deals for Europe, South America and Asia in addition to the U.S. and Canada.

Politically, the port owes its stability to the leadership of one man: former Mayor Daniel Hoan. Holding office from 1916 to 1940, Hoan was a strong supporter of the shipping industry and of keeping the waterfront property in the public domain.

I think this article provides some interesting background information regarding the Port of Milwaukee:


Oh wait, here is a .pdf version of the hard copy, which has some pictures not included in the digital format:

http://www.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/User/jsteng/Port/NewsArticles/Milwaukee_PortStory.pdf

I think tearing down the Hoan Bridge is a mistake.

Me too.

All I know is the that the Hoan Bridge is one of the ugliest structures on Earth and that it completely kills and destroys downtown. Steps out of downtown and you are in giant parking lots with rusted fences and plant overgrowth. :bash:

I'm definitely excited about the new talks of the Lake Point Tower, didn't we already talk about that last week though? I thought that article was already posted. At least I saw it. And it would be a great addition to the city.

That was the first major tenant. Now a second one is stepping up.

Embora: "The renewed writing about the Hoan Bridge in this thread reminded me of this article which appeared in Milwaukee Magazine a couple of months ago. I recall there being a few conceptual plans being discussed for the port area in conjunction with the idea of removing the Hoan Bridge. I think this article provides some interesting background information regarding the Port of Milwaukee:


Story of a Harbor
The Port of Milwaukee is bigger than Chicago’s and vital to our economy. It’s our doorway to an exotic, international marketplace. by Leah Dobkin"


Lots of interesting stuff in that article. I'm sure there are all kinds of stories about interesting things getting shipped to and from Milwaukee. I don't know about the
"larger than Chicago's port" part though.

Of course "larger" could be referring to a variety of aspects of the port. Check out this table listing the tonnage for North American ports. I counted 19 Great Lakes ports in front of Milwaukee. Chicago was second of the Great Lakes ports, behind Duluth / Superior in MN/WI with all of its Iron Ore. Overall in the US rankings for port tonnage -- Milwaukee was 85th. Cool port and all - but I do wonder in which category Milwaukee ranks in front of Chicago. Here's the link:

http://aapa.files.cms-plus.com/Statistics/2007%20U.S.%20PORT%20CARGO%20RANKINGS%20BY%20TONS.xls

All I know is the that the Hoan Bridge is one of the ugliest structures on Earth and that it completely kills and destroys downtown. Steps out of downtown and you are in giant parking lots with rusted fences and plant overgrowth. :bash:

I have to disagree. I never understood the argument on how it kills and destroys downtown. It passes over a sewage waste plant, the Milorganite plant (fertilizer), mounds of salt, and the Port of Milwaukee. Once the bridge passes the river, it goes over the Summerfest grounds and its parking area (which is a necessity for such events). Correct me if I am wrong, but how will destroying this help anything when it comes to development? Its not like it being there negatively affects the Third Ward or Bayview--both of whom are some of the most thriving parts of town.

I don't think there good enough reasons to destroy a symbol of the city. Sure, its not the Golden Gate or Brooklyn Bridge, but it is probally one of the most recognizeable landmarks in Milwaukee. Not to mention that the views from the Hoan Bridge are the absolute best in the city! I drove over it today and coming from the Southside/airport----its a fantastic entrance for visitors coming from Mitchell on the L. Parkway. Honestly, the view from the top of the bridge make Milwaukee look like a much bigger city--double its actual size. You get a full view of the entire skyline and its actually quite dense from this angle. Add in the views of Southside church spires, giant ships in the port, the Allen Bradley clocktower looming over its surroundings, the skyline stretching north, the Art Museum/Summerfest grounds/Veterans Park, and most importantly the lake itself (especially when the water is blue, with sailboats)---and its a very inviting, impressive view of the city.

Its not that ugly of a bridge either. I think it could use a paintjob and be lit up at night--like the Marquette Interchange is now.

El Mariachi I794 does more damage than the Hoan, but the point about redoing the Hoan is that you could land it early, create a boulevard. And then removing many of the ramps that connect it to I794. This would open up some of the most prime land in the city for redevelopment, and possibly new parkland as well.. It could be quite an very significant redevelopment project for Milwaukee, worth far more than a bridge.

but it is probally one of the most recognizeable landmarks in Milwaukee. .

That's the problem. When I see it, I think "dying industrial wasteland."

I think everyone has entitled to an opinion on the Hoan I happen to like the bridge. I don't think it destroys downtown MIilwaukee but it is a part of the landscape of the downtown area.

El Mariachi I794 does more damage than the Hoan, but the point about redoing the Hoan is that you could land it early, create a boulevard. And then removing many of the ramps that connect it to I794. This would open up some of the most prime land in the city for redevelopment, and possibly new parkland as well.. It could be quite an very significant redevelopment project for Milwaukee, worth far more than a bridge.

Well, yes---if we are talking about 794 going through downtown East/West, I think a boulevard would be a nice way to tie the Third Ward better into downtown and open up more land. Perhaps tear down the elevated parts of 794 heading East/West, with a ramp going to the Hoan Bridge at the end of this boulevard, in a similar fashion as it does at the end of Lincoln Memorial? That would look nice, but I don't think the Hoan Bridge has to go--does it?

That's the problem. When I see it, I think "dying industrial wasteland

Why? I don't think the bridge represents that at all. Its not like its the 16th St. Viaduct in the Menomonee Valley or anything. If you want people to think industrial wasteland, then put 794 at streetlevel passing over Jones Island.

El Mariachi You can't do much about I794 now because the Marquette was just rebuilt. BUT If a new Hoan was built that was lower, then it could land earlier and become more of a boulevard. Then since the bridge lands earlier you would also remove some of the ramps that connected I794 to the Hoan but you would still have most of I794. What this does is open up the lakefront and parts of the Third Ward that would likely never develop with the connecting freeway circling them. Further it lets you knit together the very eastern most part of downtown to this new area in the Third Ward. All of this to me is much more valuable than a bridge and the possibility traffic might have to stop on occasion.

It's really not the Hoan Bridge that is the problem, I suppose, but mainly the development it and especially its ramps choke off. I always feel so sad inside when I have to park under a giant freeway in order to go to the Public Market.

Badgers77 Right it isn't so much the Hoan but the connecting freeways that hurt the area. That said even by building a new lower Hoan much of I794 would stay, including the part next to the market, but some of the ramps(connections) could come down and at least knit part of downtown to the third ward better... And open up some great land in the Third Ward.

El Mariachi You can't do much about I794 now because the Marquette was just rebuilt. BUT If a new Hoan was built that was lower, then it could land earlier and become more of a boulevard. Then since the bridge lands earlier you would also remove some of the ramps that connected I794 to the Hoan but you would still have most of I794. What this does is open up the lakefront and parts of the Third Ward that would likely never develop with the connecting freeway circling them. Further it lets you knit together the very eastern most part of downtown to this new area in the Third Ward. All of this to me is much more valuable than a bridge and the possibility traffic might have to stop on occasion.

I don't think there is a point anymore if the E/W stretch of 794 can't be knocked down and made into some grand boulevard. It all seems like an unecesssary waste of money and time--at this point.

I can see what you are talking about though. The cluster of ramps between Jackson, Chicago, and Clybourn. That would be the only land I would be interested in having it torn down for, due to its proximity to the Art Museum/parkland. The Italian Community Center property could be redeveloped without tearing anything down and anymore south of that is going to be needed for Summerfest parking. I don't think anyone wants to slap up some condo tower at the very end of Erie St.---considering it overlooks a sewage plant (although I could be wrong)! BTW--whatever happened to the bamboo garden? Is that just another pipe dream like MacArthur/Cathedral square redevelopment?

But anyway, speaking of parkland----I would rather they improve existing lakefront parks before they create new ones. The entire lakefront could use a facelift and get some added amenities---at least in my opinion. If anything should be developed, its that underused, waste of space in Veterans Park where UWM students park.

Mariachi, I agree with you in that the Hoan Bridge is one of our many symbols, provides a great view, and functions reasonably well. The problem is not one of aesthetics or function, it's that the bridge is reaching the end of its life quickly. It is similar to the situation we had with City Hall a few years back. City Hall was ready to collapse, so the solution was either to tear it down and build a new one, or to rebuild it with a much higher price tag. We chose the latter because City Hall is a building worth saving.
Similarly in the discussion on the Hoan, leaving the bridge alone is not an option. The options are to build a boulevard (cheapest option), build a new signature bridge, or to rebuild the current design.

Also, the bamboo garden was shot down for whatever reason by the recent-suburbanite NIMBY's in the condos next to it.

Also also, what the heck is wrong with Veteran's Park? I go there daily and absolutely love it. The large field is perfect for kite flying, the lagoon is beautiful, and the parking lot is heavily used during the summer for various events.

Mariachi, I agree with you in that the Hoan Bridge is one of our many symbols, provides a great view, and functions reasonably well. The problem is not one of aesthetics or function, it's that the bridge is reaching the end of its life quickly. It is similar to the situation we had with City Hall a few years back. City Hall was ready to collapse, so the solution was either to tear it down and build a new one, or to rebuild it with a much higher price tag. We chose the latter because City Hall is a building worth saving.
Similarly in the discussion on the Hoan, leaving the bridge alone is not an option. The options are to build a boulevard (cheapest option), build a new signature bridge, or to rebuild the current design.

Also, the bamboo garden was shot down for whatever reason by the recent-suburbanite NIMBY's in the condos next to it.

Also also, what the heck is wrong with Veteran's Park? I go there daily and absolutely love it. The large field is perfect for kite flying, the lagoon is beautiful, and the parking lot is heavily used during the summer for various events.

Yes, I have heard that the Hoan Bridge will be needing work in the near future. But would tearing down the entire Hoan Bridge and building an entirely new span be more cost effective? Not to mention the costs of building a huge lift or bascule bridge to accomadate ships trying to get into the port. If they do tear the entire thing down, I hope they don't half ass it on design. With the money they will be spending, might as well get somebody like a Calatrava or Norman Foster to give us a new landmark. I would say put some bike lanes on there and all that--but who the hell wants to take a ride over raw sewage?!

My other concern is how tearing this all down would affect Bayview and the Southshore suburbs---which are doing well due to the accessability to downtown.

As for Veterans Park, there is nothing wrong with it---I love that park. However, the entire lakefront could be spuced up in opinion. Its great, but its far from being perfect. I would like to see added basketball courts/tennis courts, older structures rebuilt (bathrooms at Veterans Park/North Point snack bar etc.), some more streetscaping, etc. Call me crazy, but I would even like to see some of it developed---in a similar fashion as Harbourfront Center in Toronto. A couple shops (which would cater to park goers/tourists), some small resturants/cafes/outdoor bars, an outdoor stage for performers in summer, and things of that nature. It wouldn't necessarily have to take up too much space either. Perhaps that area in Veterans Park, which is bordered on both sides by marina parking. Its a huge space that I never see being used---save for firework crowds.

I agree on the lakefront.

I'm not all that familiar with it, but from what I have seen on a few recent visits, it was much less exciting than it could be. More trees and designated activity spaces would be great, as some parts look awfully unkempt, bland, and almost suburban in their design. This is especially true with Veteran's Park. I mean, I really love the lagoon, but a large part of the park is just one giant-ass lawn. Which is good and all, as it provides ample space for activity, but I just have to imagine that there is something a little (or much) more natural-feeling that can be done in such a beautiful location.

With that said, it's still beautiful and I'm nitpicking.

I agree on the lakefront.

I'm not all that familiar with it, but from what I have seen on a few recent visits, it was much less exciting than it could be. More trees and designated activity spaces would be great, as some parts look awfully unkempt, bland, and almost suburban in their design. The only thing that bothers me about Veteran's Park is that it kills much of the lake view from the street level.

With that said, it's still beautiful and I'm nitpicking.

Yeah, its a wonderful park if you live here in Milwaukee. Its got everything you really need---fishing, sailing, running/jogging/hiking paths, tennis, a little cafe, art, soccer fields, paddleboats, and beaches. Not to mention the huge open field that ajknee mentioned---which might be one of the best urban kite flying parks in the country.

The park is even nice for visitors to take a stroll. But aside from that---there really isn't much for tourists or those unfamiliar with Milwaukee to see after leaving the Art Museum. We, who live here, know where to walk to get back to the shops and nightlife. There really is nothing in terms of signage, unlike downtown, to give people directions. For instance, how many non-Milwaukeeans would know that the Brady Street Bridge can get you to one of the cities best, most vibrant neighorhoods with relative ease? Or walking up Water Tower Rd. gets you to North Ave and all its resturants, bars, movie theater, shops, etc.? Or where the bike path leads to? I guess I would rather have this park be for Milwaukeeans, rather than tourists (as in cities like Seattle or San Francisco)---but it would be nice to see more options down there.

That was the first major tenant. Now a second one is stepping up.
Yes, as the article starts out by saying that it's the second large tenant.

A second large tenant is considering locating in a proposed new office building on East Michigan Street in downtown Milwaukee, giving the long-discussed project more hope of finally occurring.

What if the Hoan bridge was kept, but from Menomonee street north to Lincoln Memorial, and 794 west until the river it was lowered to an at grade boulevard with it designed similar to East Washington Ave in Madison to keep the traffic flowing efficiently, and on the south side of the bridge we get rid of all the ramps that elevate it over Jones island and make it a boulevard there also. I think the high costs of repairing and maintaining the bridge come from the fact that it is over 2 miles of elevated roadways, so why not try to bring more of it down to grade while keeping the iconic bridge. It seems like a reasonable compromise to me.

If anything should be developed, its that underused, waste of space in Veterans Park where UWM students park.

Are you talking about the Marina parking lot??

I think the high costs of repairing and maintaining the bridge come from the fact that it is over 2 miles of elevated roadways, so why not try to bring more of it down to grade while keeping the iconic bridge. It seems like a reasonable compromise to me.

The elevated bridge over Jones Island is traversing over the sewage treatment plant and other heavy industrial sites. You can't exactly just put a road through there... it's elevated for a reason.

Would a new Hoan Bridge make a profit? If not, I don't support it. Or, they better charge fares to cover the cost, both to construct and maintain. We shouldn't be subsidizing roads like that.

@MilwaukeeD You're right if it doesn't make a profit we should tear it out! Funny

@Coldwake I'm guessing the fact that the DOT is considering a lower bridge indicates that they know Jones Island is there and in fact you can lower the bridge or tweak the plan to make it work. In fact I'm pretty sure the bridge is built at that level it is because at the time they were worried about port traffic but the new design could work with a lower bridge that opens to support this need.

As a follow up to the lakefront park discussion, I believe Bartolottas is taking over the North Point Snack Shack south of Bradford Beach this summer.....I heard that it will be a burger and custard concept called "Lotta Burger"

Presuming that the Hi-Hat folks continue to make strides at Bradford Beach, this will make a good 1-2 combo at the lakefront....

Would a new Hoan Bridge make a profit? If not, I don't support it. Or, they better charge fares to cover the cost, both to construct and maintain. We shouldn't be subsidizing roads like that.

That opinion can be made for any road, since all roads basically lose money. The bridge loses money by deteriorating just like I-94 does (although probably at a faster rate). And yes I would be for tolling I-94 south from Milwaukee to the border since Illinois tolls everyone else and they come up here so much. I don't think there would be any sense in paying a toll just to use the bridge though.

I don't think any of us know enough about this project's plans to argue one way or the other, most of it is speculation. Once the DOT lays out a definite plan for how everything would work if they were to take out the bridge, then we can have a better argument. If an at-grade road wouldn't take away anything in terms of functionality that the bridge already offers, then great. Otherwise, don't block the port or make traffic from that part of town cramped when it doesn't have to be that way.

That's also cool that Bartolotta plans to run that snack shack. That would be a good 1-2 punch indeed.

Would a new Hoan Bridge make a profit? If not, I don't support it. Or, they better charge fares to cover the cost, both to construct and maintain. We shouldn't be subsidizing roads like that.

:lol: I see what you did there!

Are you talking about the Marina parking lot??

Not the parking lot itself, but the open space between the two marina lots.

Here is what I speak of. As you can see from this aerial image or just anytime you have ever walked by this section---that the grass is terrible and it adds absolutely nothing to the lakefront. The rest of Veterans Park is fine, save for maybe refurbishing the bathroom/picnic thing opposite the Gift of Wings kite store and maybe some new benches/tables/lighting etc.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/7880/milwaukee.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=milwaukee.jpg)

As a follow up to the lakefront park discussion, I believe Bartolottas is taking over the North Point Snack Shack south of Bradford Beach this summer.....I heard that it will be a burger and custard concept called "Lotta Burger"

Presuming that the Hi-Hat folks continue to make strides at Bradford Beach, this will make a good 1-2 combo at the lakefront....

Thats great news. The Bradford Beach thing was pretty successful from what I read last year. Everytime I drove past it last summer on the weekends, the beach/beach house looked packed and inviting. Hopefully, the Bartolotta's thing takes off and becomes as popular as Alterra.

I read in some UWM article that they are building a tiki bar before Memorial Day this year, at Bradford Beach. Which, of course, is wonderful. Just hope those godforsaken NIMBYs in their mansions don't ruin this all.

^^The landscaping, actually the total lack of landscaping, on that whole huge patch shown, has always been a disappointment, especially compared to the beauty of the Juneau Park lagoon which it stretches out from. Even the choice of using evergreens as tree shrubbery here and there is strangely out of place. Seems to be a case where the County went to the trouble of creating all that landfill (from freeway construction excavation btw) for the Marina, then pooped out on an important detail. Surprising too, because great landscaping had always been a Milwaukee County Parks trademark. This still at a time of real prosperity. Hope it'll be corrected someday.

Community leaders push for transit authority
The Business Journal of Milwaukee - by Rich Rovito

A permanent regional transit authority is vital for economic development and as a way to better connect workers with available jobs, according to transit experts and advocates.

A regional transit authority could provide a much-needed dedicated funding source and, combined with available federal stimulus funds, could radically transform public transit in southeast Wisconsin and other parts of the state, several transit experts and advocates argued during a discussion April 13 hosted by the Greater Milwaukee Committee.


“Public transit isn’t an optional part of the infrastructure of southeastern Wisconsin, it’s an essential part,” said Ken Yunker, executive director of the Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission.

There’s a growing population, approaching 15 percent, that doesn’t have access to an automobile and is dependent upon public transportation for access to jobs, health care and general travel, Yunker said.

The existing funding setup for public transportation systems in southeast Wisconsin is too dependent on state and federal funds, which haven’t kept pace with inflation, which puts a larger burden on counties and cities to try to make up the difference with property taxes, he said.

“We don’t have a funding problem in public transit, we have a funding crisis,” he said. “The transit systems have been taking every dollar in federal funds they received, and these are dollars intended for capital improvements, and putting it in their operating budget and you can’t do that forever, especially when you need to do something like replace buses.”

A permanent regional transportation authority would provide the necessary funding to allow for an expansion of public transit, said Julia Taylor, president of the Greater Milwaukee Committee.

“We think transit is crucial for the economic and social future of the Milwaukee region,” Taylor said.

A regional transit authority was formed in 2006 to determine a transit plan and funding. The governor’s 2009 budget calls for the transit authority to continue as a permanent body, a move that is necessary to reverse the decline in public transit in southeast Wisconsin, Taylor said.

“Fiscal issues in Milwaukee County have left the bus system in jeopardy,” she said.

A University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee study found that over the past seven years, 40,000 jobs have become inaccessible by transit in Milwaukee and Waukesha counties.

“If current funding continues, that number is expected to grow to 100,000 jobs,” she said.

rest of the story.................................

LINK (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/04/20/story6.html?b=1240200000^1813611)

^^The landscaping, actually the total lack of landscaping, on that whole huge patch shown, has always been a disappointment, especially compared to the beauty of the Juneau Park lagoon which it stretches out from. Even the choice of using evergreens as tree shrubbery here and there is strangely out of place. Seems to be a case where the County went to the trouble of creating all that landfill (from freeway construction excavation btw) for the Marina, then pooped out on an important detail. Surprising too, because great landscaping had always been a Milwaukee County Parks trademark. This still at a time of real prosperity. Hope it'll be corrected someday.

Yeah, that spot has alot of potential---hopefully somebody takes a look at it in the future. My own ideas of turning it into Fishermans Wharf might be a bit too grand, but any sort of landscaping would be nice. I know that its risky, but I wouldn't even mind some basketball courts down there. I always loved the ones out at Venice Beach.

I've never really been to Milwaukee beaches. What is the word, really? Are they like the beaches up here on Lake Winnebago (i.e. littered with sharp stones, small decaying lake life, other random crap)?

I've never really been to Milwaukee beaches. What is the word, really? Are they like the beaches up here on Lake Winnebago (i.e. littered with sharp stones, small decaying lake life, other random crap)?

No, at least Bradford Beach isnt. Now that they've cleaned it up and Miller (?) donated a bunch of money to fund lifeguards and patrols the few times ive been there and several times ive drove past it it was really nice. There are volleyball nets and other stuff that I think makes it great (Except that the water is usually pretty cold). Last summer especially it seemed crowded there too, which is always a good sign. The only slight concern I have is that late at night the area becomes a prostitution hot spot. Hopefully that kind of stuff only occurs when no one else is around, but if they don't keep it in check it could ruin whats become a really great thing.

The only slight concern I have is that late at night the area becomes a prostitution hot spot. Hopefully that kind of stuff only occurs when no one else is around, but if they don't keep it in check it could ruin whats become a really great thing.

Wow, thats interesting. I have never heard of prostitution being a problem in that area.

I've never really been to Milwaukee beaches. What is the word, really? Are they like the beaches up here on Lake Winnebago (i.e. littered with sharp stones, small decaying lake life, other random crap)?

Milwaukee has some nice beaches, Atwater being by far, the best. I find that the sand on the beaches is pretty decent with the occasional sharp stone/shell/litter at Bradford. You probally could lay back and relax, comfortably---but don't expect Cancun or anything. Sometimes, there are alot of dead alewives and stuff that washes up and the smell of the algae in Lake Michigan can be unbearable at times. It can be hit or miss with that stuff. Suprisingly, there are alot of hot women down there (http://lightgeek.com/admin/ViewFile.php?file_id=345) in the summertime and the crowd is usually pretty young. There are alot of events that go on down there during the summer--such as beach soccer tournaments, beach volleyball, and things of that nature. Nothing like Copacabana Beach in Rio de Janerio----but that's not a bad city to strive to become (at least when it comes to beaches, that is!). Here is the events calendar. http://www.bradfordbeachjam.com/events.html

This is Atwater Beach, which is in Shorewood (minutes from the Eastside of Milwaukee). I think its the best because the sand is soft and its secluded---hidden below a steep bluff. You would never know it existed if you just drove past the park on Lake Dr.
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8241/08150.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=08150.jpg)

but I wouldn't even mind some basketball courts down there. I always loved the ones out at Venice Beach.

That is a great idea, There are also a couple of bball courts in Lincoln Park in Chicago on the Lake Front

The only slight concern I have is that late at night the area becomes a prostitution hot spot. Hopefully that kind of stuff only occurs when no one else is around, but if they don't keep it in check it could ruin whats become a really great thing.

How late at night? I live nearby and walk by there all of the time (usually before midnight) and have never noticed any problems. I guess that could be happening later in the night, but I have never been concerned for my safety down there at night.

Community leaders push for transit authority
The Business Journal of Milwaukee - by Rich Rovito

A permanent regional transit authority is vital for economic development and as a way to better connect workers with available jobs, according to transit experts and advocates.

A regional transit authority could provide a much-needed dedicated funding source and, combined with available federal stimulus funds, could radically transform public transit in southeast Wisconsin and other parts of the state, several transit experts and advocates argued during a discussion April 13 hosted by the Greater Milwaukee Committee.


“Public transit isn’t an optional part of the infrastructure of southeastern Wisconsin, it’s an essential part,” said Ken Yunker, executive director of the Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission.

There’s a growing population, approaching 15 percent, that doesn’t have access to an automobile and is dependent upon public transportation for access to jobs, health care and general travel, Yunker said.

The existing funding setup for public transportation systems in southeast Wisconsin is too dependent on state and federal funds, which haven’t kept pace with inflation, which puts a larger burden on counties and cities to try to make up the difference with property taxes, he said.

“We don’t have a funding problem in public transit, we have a funding crisis,” he said. “The transit systems have been taking every dollar in federal funds they received, and these are dollars intended for capital improvements, and putting it in their operating budget and you can’t do that forever, especially when you need to do something like replace buses.”

A permanent regional transportation authority would provide the necessary funding to allow for an expansion of public transit, said Julia Taylor, president of the Greater Milwaukee Committee.

“We think transit is crucial for the economic and social future of the Milwaukee region,” Taylor said.

A regional transit authority was formed in 2006 to determine a transit plan and funding. The governor’s 2009 budget calls for the transit authority to continue as a permanent body, a move that is necessary to reverse the decline in public transit in southeast Wisconsin, Taylor said.

“Fiscal issues in Milwaukee County have left the bus system in jeopardy,” she said.

A University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee study found that over the past seven years, 40,000 jobs have become inaccessible by transit in Milwaukee and Waukesha counties.

“If current funding continues, that number is expected to grow to 100,000 jobs,” she said.

rest of the story.................................

LINK (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/04/20/story6.html?b=1240200000^1813611)

Here are my questions on this proposed tranportation authority.

1. Is the head of this authority going to be appointed or elected by a public vote in the counties affected?

2. Are the other members of this council going to be appointed or elected to represent the counties that are affected?

"A University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee study found that over the past seven years, 40,000 jobs have become inaccessible by transit in Milwaukee and Waukesha counties".

Here we go again. Can someone please defend this absurd number? Why not publish 5 million jobs? No rail system or bus will ever reduce this number. If a company locates outside Milwaukee that will always become a reason for the transit lobbyists to complain that people cannot get to the jobs and they are needed. Companies do their research and place a company where they know jobs will be filled within the geographical area they are targeting. You never hear the outlying areas crying that their communities cannot get to the inner city to fill those jobs. It is always the other way around.

MJinOshkosh asks a good question. I would guess that the transit authority would fight tooth and nail to not allow an elected position. This would diminish their power as the reason to create this authority is for power itself. An election would keep them in check and dismantle a poorly run authority. Boy does this smell of building a huge bureaucracy or what. And, who pays them?

Renewable energy facility proposed for Port
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Apr. 21, 2009 1:00 p.m.

An industrial facility that would collect wood waste and other biomass, and use it to make wood pellets and natural gas, has been proposed for the Port of Milwaukee.

The facility would be operated by Waters' New Biotech Inc., a Pewaukee start-up led by Edward L. Waters.

The firm would demolish some city-owned buildings to make way for the facility, and would receive rent credits to cover the $116,000 in estimated demolition costs, the proposal said.

The development would include a gasification facility, the proposal said. The company's Internet site says it disposes of wood waste, but Waters declined comment about his company. The lease calls for the facility to be completed by September 2010.

The city is seeking to encourage development in the Port area.

link (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/landandspace.html)

How late at night? I live nearby and walk by there all of the time (usually before midnight) and have never noticed any problems. I guess that could be happening later in the night, but I have never been concerned for my safety down there at night.

Well the couple times I noticed it it was a little before midnight and it was on a weekend. There were some cars parked there and I looked over and wondered if they needed help or something but once I looked closely it became obvious what was happening inside the car. I don't go there daily and I don't know, it might just be a place where teens go to get some privacy (I never pulled in), but it just seemed strange. And I totally agree, even the few times I noticed that I never felt endangered in the slightest way, however sometimes small and "harmless" criminal activity can attract more undesirable things. And I apologize, my post was more of a side thought than a legitimate worry.

Upscale grocery store plans develop for downtown Milwaukee
(Old Pleasant and Commerce Project)

John and Anne Nehring are moving forward on their plans to open an upscale grocery near downtown, nearly four years after their initial proposal.

A 15,000-square-foot Nehring's Family Market is planned for the former Habhegger Wheel and Axle shop, at E. Brady and N. Water streets.

The Nehrings have agreed to lease the building from New Land Enterprises, and are now assembling financing to remodel the property, Anne Nehring said Wednesday. The couple hopes to have the grocery open by the December holiday season. link (http://www.jsonline.com/business/43496877.html)

Will this project make 5 large grocery stores downtown?

Developer may build extended stay hotel near Brady Street

Wednesday, April 22, 2009
http://www.biztimes.com/realestateweekly/2009/4/22/#developer-may-build-extended-stay-hotel-near-brady-street

Ajit "Jay" Walia, one of the owners of the Comfort Inn and Suites Downtown Lakeshore hotel at 916 E. State St. in downtown Milwaukee, is working on plans to build an extended stay hotel near the Brady Street business district on Milwaukee's east side.

The hotel would be a Candlewood Suites, according to a source. Walia has not formally submitted any plans about the project yet to the city, but he has met with city officials and neighborhood groups about the project.

Walia could not be reached for comment Tuesday.

He plans to purchase the Jesus' Soul Saving Traveling Mission of the Apostolic Faith building at 1640 N. Franklin Place, immediately south of the Arlington Court high-rise elderly housing complex. Walter Curtain, a real estate broker representing the church, confirmed that Walia has made an offer to purchase the property. Curtain declined to disclose information about the offer, but he said the list price for the property, which is for sale, is $1.5 million. The building is also used for the Jesus Academy of Learning school and by Heavenly Care East Side Day Care.

The church plans to move to a new building that it plans to build on 95th Street, Curtain said.

Walia indicated that he is meeting with city officials about the property and has two development options, the hotel and an apartment building, Curtain said.

If the deal with Walia falls through, other potential buyers have expressed interest in the property, Curtain said.

http://www.eppsteinuhen.com/data/portfolio/manpower13.jpg

link (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/landandspace.html)

(Old Rendering)
http://www.mkedcd.org/planning/EriePlaza/images/light.jpg

No Bamboo?

Among the grant recipients is the Erie Street Plaza in Milwaukee, which received $75,000 for construction of a plaza in the 3rd Ward that will serve as a sustainable garden with a field of interspersed pavers and planted islands of native marsh grasses and lawn. link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/04/20/daily35.html?surround=lfn)

(Old Rendering)
http://www.mkedcd.org/planning/EriePlaza/images/light.jpg

No Bamboo?

Among the grant recipients is the Erie Street Plaza in Milwaukee, which received $75,000 for construction of a plaza in the 3rd Ward that will serve as a sustainable garden with a field of interspersed pavers and planted islands of native marsh grasses and lawn. link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/04/20/daily35.html?surround=lfn)

Where would that be exactly?

Where would that be exactly?

Erie Street Plaza (http://www.mkedcd.org/planning/EriePlaza/index.html)

Erie Street Plaza (http://www.mkedcd.org/planning/EriePlaza/index.html)

Thank you, Yes that spot needs something, bamboo would've been different and new, but at least something will happen there.

Upscale grocery store plans develop for downtown Milwaukee
(Old Pleasant and Commerce Project)



This is strange. The East Side already has two Pick n Save's, Gloriosos, Koppa's, Beans and Barley, Whole Foods, and MetroMarket. What really needs to happen is for Nehring to move into the East Point Pick n Save, and Roundy's should build a new one on the West Side of downtown for Marquette people and environs.

The East Side is grocered out.

Also, while I'll always welcome new hotels to the downtown area...I really don't get how one would fit into that location on the Lower East Side.

Also, while I'll always welcome new hotels to the downtown area...I really don't get how one would fit into that location on the Lower East Side.
I think the Brady Street area is a great area that is undeserved by hotels in general, and extend stay hotels usually cater to a different crowd and can be slightly off the beaten path or highway since the people that use it will be using it for a longer time. I think it will be a good fit for the neighborhood. A hotel in that location would be ideally located between downtown and the upper east side, two of strongest neighborhoods in Milwaukee, and it would be well positioned for any future growth of Milwaukee as the downtown area sprawls north, and the upper east side population sprawls south.

True that area does not really have much in the way of hotels, but I'm worried about a big building like that really intruding on the historic nature of the neighborhood. Plus the area is quite densely populated as is now... so it's not like this would be a catalyst of any sort. I'm not opposed to this, as long as it is done right.

This is strange. The East Side already has two Pick n Save's, Gloriosos, Koppa's, Beans and Barley, Whole Foods, and MetroMarket. What really needs to happen is for Nehring to move into the East Point Pick n Save, and Roundy's should build a new one on the West Side of downtown for Marquette people and environs.

The East Side is grocered out.

Also, while I'll always welcome new hotels to the downtown area...I really don't get how one would fit into that location on the Lower East Side.

don't forget Sendik's on Downer, the Pick n' Save on Humboldt and Good Harvest by the Public Market. I love grocery stores though, and having them within walking distance to residences is vital to urban living. Might this be too many? I'm not sure. I hope that the population continues to grow so that they all do well. Milwaukee is lucky to have all of those choices in such a small area.

And I agree, that a grcoery store is sorely needed on the near west side for MU and others.

I think that the location that it is going in is under served as far as grocery stores, and that it will be ideally located to meet the neighborhoods growing demand. I think the growing number of grocery stores are actually a good indicator of how dense the east side is becoming, and it will only continue to get denser.

(Old Rendering)
http://www.mkedcd.org/planning/EriePlaza/images/light.jpg

No Bamboo?

Among the grant recipients is the Erie Street Plaza in Milwaukee, which received $75,000 for construction of a plaza in the 3rd Ward that will serve as a sustainable garden with a field of interspersed pavers and planted islands of native marsh grasses and lawn. link (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/04/20/daily35.html?surround=lfn)
Okay, the objections the gentry living there had to the original plan was that it would attract rodents. I'm sure the truth is more that the guy running the bar wanted the space for parking.

Either way, regarding those issues, how is this different from the bamboo garden? I want bamboo!

I think the growing number of grocery stores are actually a good indicator of how dense the east side is becoming, and it will only continue to get denser.There may be no better indicator of confidence in the future than the appearance of good new retail. Stagnation is not a worthwhile option.True that area does not really have much in the way of hotels, but I'm worried about a big building like that really intruding on the historic nature of the neighborhood. Plus the area is quite densely populated as is now... so it's not like this would be a catalyst of any sort. I'm not opposed to this, as long as it is done right.
The best hope for limiting the pace and degree of change, i.e. not spoiling the actual attractiveness, in one area, is to make other, underserved, still distressed districts more rewarding for development. How, you ask? Hmmmm....

http://assets.bizjournals.com/story_image/210017-300-0-2.jpg

The Edge, a 66-unit condominium buildilng, at 1902 N. Commerce St., had an open house this week.

Developer Paul Marks, who operates Chicago-based Tandem Developers LLC, told me that 60% of the units have been sold. Some of the first residents have started moving into the building, which overlooks the Milwaukee River.

Tandem has plans to eventually develop a second building. link (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/43543192.html)

U.N. names Milwaukee a water technology hub

By John Schmid of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Apr. 27, 2009 9:31 p.m.


The United Nations on Tuesday will designate Milwaukee as a U.N. Global Compact City, making it one of 13 such cities worldwide, in a move that will help the region promote its image abroad as an international hub of water technology.

The 5-year-old U.N. program obligates member cities to showcase progress on issues that involve human rights, environmentalism, health or labor standards. Milwaukee's application centers on water quality, with a pledge to tackle a catalog of projects ranging from the development of sensors to monitor water safety to pilot technologies meant to strip radium from underground aquifers.

It's now up to Milwaukee to demonstrate to the world that it can do something exemplary with the management of an increasingly scarce resource like water, said Paul James, director of the U.N. Global Compact Cities Program. James will make the announcement on Tuesday at a meeting of the Milwaukee 7 Water Council, a trade group formed to promote water-technology research and industry in southeastern Wisconsin.

Milwaukee becomes only the second such U.N. city in the United States alongside San Francisco, which champions a Business Council on Climate Change that encourages Bay area companies such as Google Inc. to adhere to low-carbon environmental practices. Milwaukee is also the second U.N. city anywhere with a focus that involves water. The other is Jamshedpur, India, where Tata Steel's giant mills are working on industrial sewage treatment projects.

Milwaukee's 17-page U.N. application includes a long list of projects meant to show the region's determination to expand its water-engineering industries. Even without U.N. aspirations, most of the projects already were in the works, either through the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee or the Water Council.

But the most immediate benefit of U.N. Global Compact membership lies in image and reputation.

"Milwaukee now has the opportunity to be recognized on a global scale," said Jeffrey Joerres, chairman and chief executive of Manpower Inc., an international employment company with headquarters in Milwaukee. "Its image will appear in places and on lists that it never appeared before."

As the next step, U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon will sign Milwaukee's formal acceptance, James said.

Working in Milwaukee's favor is the global crisis of water scarcity. More than 1 billion people - nearly one-fifth of the world's population - lack access to safe drinking water, according to the most recent U.N. World Water Development Report. A 2003 U.N. report concluded: "Of all the social and natural resource crises we humans face, the water crisis is the one that lies at the heart of our survival and that of our planet earth."

The Water Council aims to boost the region's economy and refresh its economic image with a focus on a sector that economists expect to grow, as water becomes more scarce and polluted around the world.

It's drafting strategies to brand the region as a hub of water technology, while UWM is building a new freshwater research program and graduate-level School of Freshwater Science.

Projects pledged in Milwaukee's application include:

• Studying aquaculture to breed edible fish on the assumption that seafood offers cheaper animal protein than livestock.

• Doing research to reduce algae in Lake Michigan and use algae as a biofuel.

• Disinfecting storm-water runoff and desalination of winter road salt.

• Seeking new efficiencies in wastewater treatment.

• Removing radium from groundwater, advancing a pilot project that began last year in Waukesha.


Maybe we will become the fresh water hub some have invisioned...
like in this article..... http://www.jsonline.com/business/40878037.html

Irony this article surfaces just after Milwaukee disclosed it dumped millions of gallons of raw sewage into our drinking source. I guess we are looked upon highly as a city who can put poop in our drinking source and still refine it into potable water. What were they thinking?
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Combined sewers continue to overflow in Milwaukee, Shorewood
By Don Behm of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Apr. 27, 2009

Combined sanitary and storm sewers in central Milwaukee and eastern Shorewood continued overflowing to local rivers and Lake Michigan Monday night in the wake of the weekend's heavy storms, which dropped nearly 4 inches of rain on some areas, a Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District official said.

Light rain was forecast Monday evening, so the district expected to continue blending partly treated sewage and fully treated wastewater at its Jones Island treatment plant, district Executive Director Kevin Shafer said. Blending is done to boost treatment capacity at Jones Island and enable workers to pump wastewater out of the deep tunnel.

At 6:30 p.m. Monday, the deep tunnel was at 88% capacity and a separate segment, known as the Northwest Side deep tunnel, was full.

Pumps were draining the tunnel at a rate of 150 million gallons a day on Monday while flows from communities with separate sanitary sewers were spilling wastewater into the tunnel at a rate of more than 85 million gallons a day.

Both blending and combined sewer overflows started Sunday in an attempt to prevent basement backups in the metropolitan area served by the district and to prevent overflows of separate sanitary sewers to urban streams.

Brown Deer, Mequon, Elm Grove and the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District reported sanitary sewer overflows during Sunday's heavy rain, said Jim Fratrick, regional watershed coordinator for the state Department of Natural Resources in Milwaukee.

One of the district's regional sewers near N. Green Tree Road and the Milwaukee River discharged an estimated 620,000 gallons of sewage to the river on Sunday, a district official said. The sewer was overwhelmed by excessive flows that exceeded its design capacity. The overflow there ended late Sunday.

I know it is fun to knock privately run MMSD, but understand that prior to the deep tunnel they were dumping 8.5 BILLION (yes with a B) gallons per year and now are down to on average of 450 Million (note an M instead of a B). Despite what talk radio tells you MMSD is looked at very favorably across the country. Is it perfect? No. But without it our water would be a complete mess. With it, still problems but way way way better than prior.

It is not raw sewage, it is a mix of storm and sanitary sewer water. Much of what is dumped is simply rainwater. However, rainwater can actually be more contaminated than sewage, as it picks up oil, fuel, etc. on the pavement.

Every city in the country does this. The fact that Milwaukee cares about it and is working to fix the problem shows that it can be a leader in this field. And many of our technologies can be exported to other communities and countries hoping to solve their wastewater treatment issues.

That UN designation is fantastic. I certainly hope we take this and run with it. I like being known for something as pure, natural, and desirable like water WAY more than being known for something juvenile like beer.
Cheers to Milwaukee...I see a future.

I too am fully on board with the UN recognition. This is very good PR for our city and brings national recognition. It is irony (and somewhat comical) however the timing of the award and the excessive rain we just had. As a boater, I remember the times when our river system was a sewer all year long. Not just on extreme heavy rain falls. So, I too see the improvement first hand and recognize the efforts to mitigate the problem.

Irony this article surfaces just after Milwaukee disclosed it dumped millions of gallons of raw sewage into our drinking source. I guess we are looked upon highly as a city who can put poop in our drinking source and still refine it into potable water. What were they thinking?
________________________________________________________________________________________________

Combined sewers continue to overflow in Milwaukee, Shorewood
By Don Behm of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Apr. 27, 2009

Combined sanitary and storm sewers in central Milwaukee and eastern Shorewood continued overflowing to local rivers and Lake Michigan Monday night in the wake of the weekend's heavy storms, which dropped nearly 4 inches of rain on some areas, a Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District official said.

Light rain was forecast Monday evening, so the district expected to continue blending partly treated sewage and fully treated wastewater at its Jones Island treatment plant, district Executive Director Kevin Shafer said. Blending is done to boost treatment capacity at Jones Island and enable workers to pump wastewater out of the deep tunnel.

At 6:30 p.m. Monday, the deep tunnel was at 88% capacity and a separate segment, known as the Northwest Side deep tunnel, was full.

Pumps were draining the tunnel at a rate of 150 million gallons a day on Monday while flows from communities with separate sanitary sewers were spilling wastewater into the tunnel at a rate of more than 85 million gallons a day.

Both blending and combined sewer overflows started Sunday in an attempt to prevent basement backups in the metropolitan area served by the district and to prevent overflows of separate sanitary sewers to urban streams.

Brown Deer, Mequon, Elm Grove and the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District reported sanitary sewer overflows during Sunday's heavy rain, said Jim Fratrick, regional watershed coordinator for the state Department of Natural Resources in Milwaukee.

One of the district's regional sewers near N. Green Tree Road and the Milwaukee River discharged an estimated 620,000 gallons of sewage to the river on Sunday, a district official said. The sewer was overwhelmed by excessive flows that exceeded its design capacity. The overflow there ended late Sunday.

Boatnurd, I agree it is ironic but what better place to study freshwater safety technology then a place that does have some problems but yet has solved problems in it's history? I think Milwaukee was a great choice and a no brainer!

It is not raw sewage, it is a mix of storm and sanitary sewer water. Much of what is dumped is simply rainwater. However, rainwater can actually be more contaminated than sewage, as it picks up oil, fuel, etc. on the pavement.

Every city in the country does this. The fact that Milwaukee cares about it and is working to fix the problem shows that it can be a leader in this field. And many of our technologies can be exported to other communities and countries hoping to solve their wastewater treatment issues.

Good post! Also it should be pointed out that one of the things that will be studied and trying to find a reasonable answer to is desalination of road salt run off. Again, what better place?

That UN designation is fantastic. I certainly hope we take this and run with it. I like being known for something as pure, natural, and desirable like water WAY more than being known for something juvenile like beer.
Cheers to Milwaukee...I see a future.
:cheers: Agreed! Cheers to Milwaukee! There really is a future in this as freshwater availability is a major concern throughout the whole world. And now the world will be looking to Milwaukee for answers!!! Exciting!!!

Lets not forget the cryptosporidium outbreak of 93...my point about that is the advances Milwaukee has made since then; Milwaukee became i believe the largest city to treat drinking water with ozone.

Now at the same time, up here Green Bay has begun a massive dredging project of the Fox River, to clean up the pollution more specifically, the PCB's. This project has been labeled as the largest environmental dredging project in America. just some other fresh water news in wisconsin.

Milwaukee and MMSD have made a lot of progress both in creating safe drinking water systems and in using the deep tunnels to store those excess billions of gallons of rain water... these efforts along with future plans... have earned us this not only national recognition but world recognition on fresh water tech, science, and issues.

Now hopefully we can expand our water technology industries and our fresh water research, so that we can live up to this nomination.

Good points that both Jschmuck and miltown have made.

Also a good note, only 2 US cities got UN designations:

http://media.journalinteractive.com/images/UN28G.jpg

Old Navy has officially announced it will close it's location at Grand Avenue on May 5.

OnMilwaukee.com (http://onmilwaukee.com/market/articles/oldnavyclosing.html)

Should be good news for Milwaukee but as a side note i did get a chuckle that the UN has "Preventing corruption and unethical business practices" location :lol:

Should be good news for Milwaukee but as a side note i did get a chuckle that the UN has "Preventing corruption and unethical business practices" location :lol:


Rofl... yup the ole UN is about as corrupt as they come :D

Old Navy has officially announced it will close it's location at Grand Avenue on May 5.

OnMilwaukee.com (http://onmilwaukee.com/market/articles/oldnavyclosing.html)

Ugh. I remember when I first moved back here I really wanted to see GA survive, but after several years and broken promises of a "new large anchor tenant" recently, I've become very indifferent to that place.

Also a good note, only 2 US cities got UN designations:

http://media.journalinteractive.com/images/UN28G.jpg

Looks like some good company!

Ugh. I remember when I first moved back here I really wanted to see GA survive, but after several years and broken promises of a "new large anchor tenant" recently, I've become very indifferent to that place.

Same here, it seems like we're forcing retail to work on Wisconsin Ave because it used to work in the 80's. Build some vertical big-box and call it a day.

http://onmilwaukee.com/images/articles/st/streetcarhistory/streetcarhistory_story1.jpg

Good resource on timeline of streetcar development. OnMilwaukee.com (http://onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/streetcarhistory.html)

Embora: "The renewed writing about the Hoan Bridge in this thread reminded me of this article which appeared in Milwaukee Magazine a couple of months ago. I recall there being a few conceptual plans being discussed for the port area in conjunction with the idea of removing the Hoan Bridge. I think this article provides some interesting background information regarding the Port of Milwaukee:


Story of a Harbor
The Port of Milwaukee is bigger than Chicago’s and vital to our economy. It’s our doorway to an exotic, international marketplace. by Leah Dobkin"


Lots of interesting stuff in that article. I'm sure there are all kinds of stories about interesting things getting shipped to and from Milwaukee. I don't know about the
"larger than Chicago's port" part though.

Of course "larger" could be referring to a variety of aspects of the port. Check out this table listing the tonnage for North American ports. I counted 19 Great Lakes ports in front of Milwaukee. Chicago was second of the Great Lakes ports, behind Duluth / Superior in MN/WI with all of its Iron Ore. Overall in the US rankings for port tonnage -- Milwaukee was 85th. Cool port and all - but I do wonder in which category Milwaukee ranks in front of Chicago. Here's the link:

http://aapa.files.cms-plus.com/Statistics/2007%20U.S.%20PORT%20CARGO%20RANKINGS%20BY%20TONS.xls

I meant to look into this sooner, but alas...better late than never:

The author of the article was very responsive to my inquiry, and emailed me the following figures: Milwaukee had 3,934 (thousands of metric ton) and Chicago had 3,355. in 2007. She quoted the Seaway Review, Harborhouse Publishing, 2008. The Director of the Port of Milwaukee faxed her this information, and told her that it's important to compare apples to apples. In this case, that means comparing the city owned Port of Milwaukee with the State owned Port of Chicago and that the statistic does not include the private steel companies outside the Port.

Ah, that makes some sense. Thank you for the information.

The DCD has created a website for the Port of Milwaukee Development Plan (http://www.mkedcd.org/planning/Port/index.html). It's pretty bare-bones now, but like other city projects I'm sure they'll continue to update.

Some interesting info from the site:

Over 120 water-related companies are located in the Milwaukee region, representing $10.5 billion in annual sales.

Five of the 11 largest water companies in the world have a presence in Milwaukee, at 9 different facilities.

The region is home to 87 academic water scientists and engineers.

The University of Wisconsin Milwaukee's Great Lakes WATER Institute is the largest academic freshwater facility on the Great Lakes.

This is right on that piece of land that came into question a week or two ago....

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a92/icemone414/SAILING01Gfix.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a92/icemone414/vp.jpg


New sailing center building will allow extended classes

By Steve Schultze of the Journal Sentinel

Posted: Apr. 30, 2009 10:59 p.m.


A new $2.5 million building for the Milwaukee Community Sailing Center will permit the center to begin classes earlier in spring and extend them into the fall, said Peter Rieck, executive director of the center.

Construction is slated to start in June and be completed by next spring, with the new building providing six times the space as the center's current lakefront home. The center is at the south end of the McKinley Marina in Veterans Park.

The two-story, 6,000-square-foot structure will house two classrooms, offices and a large community room, as well as provide the 32-year-old center with its first indoor bathrooms.

It will incorporate energy-saving and other environmentally friendly features into the building design and materials.

Rain gardens to capture and filter runoff will surround the building.

A geothermal heating and cooling system is planned, but the center is working on raising the $250,000 the system would cost, Development Director Barbara Velez said.

The $2.5 million for the building was raised starting in 2005, when it became clear the center had outgrown its 900-square-foot quarters, she said.

Most classes are held outdoors from mid-June through late August because the existing building is so small, Rieck said.

"We don't have enough indoor space" for classes in inclement weather, he said. "We can't physically jam 20 people in there."

The center has a fleet of 80 boats and teaches sailing to children and adults.

Each season, about 700 members take lessons at the center, and another 2,200 at-risk teenagers, disadvantaged children and people with disabilities also are served, Velez said.

Sailing is a cooperative venture that teaches team-building and self-reliance, she said.

The new building will be northwest of the existing center, which will be converted into storage space, Rieck said.

The center operates on donations and fees for classes and has no taxpayer subsidies, Velez said.

The Milwaukee County Board unanimously approved the expansion last week, following earlier approval from the Lakefront Development Advisory Commission and the County Board parks committee.