Umm...the better question is, "Do YOU travel?" Of course people would take their luggage on light rail to and from downtown. It happens every day in places like London, Chicago, Minneapolis, Cleveland, etc. It's a valuable connection to have.

Yes, 'bout 100k a year. MKE isn't London, Chicago, etc... Here is what I see: Families with lots of crap drive and park or take a limo. Business travelers take taxis, drive or limos. Tours take buses. Yes, there are some that take a train, but not many. Let's see how many use the Amtrak to Mitchell. Does anyone have stats on that?

Yes, 'bout 100k a year. MKE isn't London, Chicago, etc... Here is what I see: Families with lots of crap drive and park or take a limo. Business travelers take taxis, drive or limos. Tours take buses. Yes, there are some that take a train, but not many. Let's see how many use the Amtrak to Mitchell. Does anyone have stats on that?

PROMISE US THAT YOU NEVER RUN FOR POLITICAL OFFICE. YOUR COMMENT AND QUESTION SHOWS YOUR LACK OF UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THIS FORUM IS TRUELY ABOUT.

I recently flew to Minneapolis and took the light rail from the airport to downtown where my hotel was. There were MANY other people doing the same thing.

It was so convenient and inexpensive that I thought to myself... "How do Milwaukee visitors get downtown from the airport?"

I don't understand Crankbaiter's argument.

yeah, i think he had a screw loose when he wrote that... i'm of the solid opinion that 'if you build it, people will ride it'.... MSP is not that much bigger of a metro than Milwaukee-- sure its airport gets much more use, but i bet most of that traffic is people making connections within the airport, not people entering and exiting the airport itself on the ground. Milwaukee is not a London or even a Chicago (although it is quite a bit similar to Chicago, just smaller)... people don't realise that Milwaukee has quite a high population density, though... more so than a lot of major American cities and there's no reason at all why Milwaukee couldn't sustain a light rail system throughout the city, including to the airport. It probably would've been in place years ago already if it weren't for the myopic, closed-minded zombies who listen to the toxic AM talk radio around here like its gospel.

Is it me, or is this project a total waste of space. Yes it is better than the gravel wasteland it was but what now? You can't really do much with this except walk around the odd design of brick pavers and curbs that were built. The groups of birch trees are planted so close together they will probably choke themselves to death. It just seems to me someone just wanted to spend the money and do something. They could have at least had real benches so someone could eat lunch and look out over the water or a fountain that does something. Those yellow things at all different heights and shapes are very weird. Believe me, my photo makes this space look far nicer than it is. Hmmmmmm.... I don't get it.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/boatnurd/DSC03122.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/boatnurd/DSC03121.jpg
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/boatnurd/DSC03120.jpg

Is it me, or is this project a total waste of space. Yes it is better than the gravel wasteland it was but what now? You can't really do much with this except walk around the odd design of brick pavers and curbs that were built. The groups of birch trees are planted so close together they will probably choke themselves to death. It just seems to me someone just wanted to spend the money and do something. They could have at least had real benches so someone could eat lunch and look out over the water or a fountain that does something. Those yellow things at all different heights and shapes are very weird. Believe me, my photo makes this space look far nicer than it is. Hmmmmmm.... I don't get it.


Despite being a relatively small, odd-shaped lot, the plaza was intentionally designed to be pretty open and flexible. There are four zones: the boardwalk, the grove, the flexible field, and the marsh...and they can all be altered by nature (seasonal changes in plantings, water levels, etc.) or by man-made actions (scheduling different events, setting up temporary displays/tents/kiosks, etc.).

The boardwalk and the flexible field are the most changeable. Set up tents along the boardwalk for a farmer's market. Put up temporary art installations in the grassy field. Clear out the field and leave it an open area for picnicking or sunbathing or snowman building. Or just stroll along the pathways through the plaza. The yellow benches are for sitting, or laying down after a jog. The "curbs" are actually retaining walls...specifically built low enough to be used as bench seating overlooking the water, and terraced so they can be used as an impromptu amphitheater for small concerts or gatherings. You can also lie down on them. There are also places to fish along the river.

The grove is made of quaking aspens (not birch). They are pretty accustomed to being planted in dense concentrations without choking each other out. (http://www.google.com/images?q=%22quaking%20aspen%22&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1366&bih=613) The grove provides some nice shade (underneath which you can sit and eat, or stand and observe your surroundings, or do tai chi, or whatever else), color, and even sounds of rusting leaves in the wind.

The marsh along the bulkhead is there to perform a very important function. It acts as a sponge, to soak up stormwater and runoff, holding it, filtering it before it percolates into the ground or runs into the river, very much like the Stormwater Park in the Menomonee Valley. It is a unique green feature along an otherwise not-so-green riverbank in Downtown and Third Ward areas.

So no, it is not a waste of space, and you can indeed do much with it.

yeah, i think he had a screw loose when he wrote that... i'm of the solid opinion that 'if you build it, people will ride it'.... MSP is not that much bigger of a metro than Milwaukee-- sure its airport gets much more use, but i bet most of that traffic is people making connections within the airport, not people entering and exiting the airport itself on the ground. Milwaukee is not a London or even a Chicago (although it is quite a bit similar to Chicago, just smaller)... people don't realise that Milwaukee has quite a high population density, though... more so than a lot of major American cities and there's no reason at all why Milwaukee couldn't sustain a light rail system throughout the city, including to the airport. It probably would've been in place years ago already if it weren't for the myopic, closed-minded zombies who listen to the toxic AM talk radio around here like its gospel.
Ahhh, It WAS in place years ago already - and AM radio is NOT toxic (they report on stuff that everyone else seems bent on ignoring).

As I have repeated many times upthread, Milwaukee once had an über-extensive LRT system - check you local history books and websites - it went ALL OVER THE PLACE. It was all replaced with diesel buses by the mid-20th Century.

Mike

That pic Boatnurd posted with the Hoan bridge in the background just solidifes my strong belief that the Hoan is a useless and very ugly bridge. I know that the residents to the south of the city may use it every once in a while but they have to know a street level parkway would accomplish the same purpose.

I don't even care about the land Milwaukee would reclaim with the bridge gone. Its just an unsightly mess of a structure that should have never been built and should be done away with. I also disagree with the many people that think the Hoan is some sort of Icon for Milwaukee. It just seems to be that any structure that is big or imposing gets made into something that it isn't (i.e U.S bank building, calatrava, Hoan bridge, Miller park). Its almost like Milwaukee is desperately trying to find something to make itself seem cool, and as we all know, you can fake that sort of thing.

Anyhow, sorry for the long rant. I just have many complaints about our fair city and it pains me to know that if our so called leaders showed a little bit more effort our city could be up there with the rest of the top cities in this nation. Get rid of the school board or make it smaller, get rid of all the aldermen and supervisors (should be less of them), destroy the hoan, make Wisconsin ave/Water street retail strip more attractive to city residents (get foreign unknown stores down there with cheap prices an see how the are will flourish), focus on adding residents to downtown area, stricter requirements for new buildings (no more mistakes like the breakwater), and the list go and on.

Milwaukee has so much potential, I just want to see it live up to it.

Despite being a relatively small, odd-shaped lot, the plaza was intentionally designed to be pretty open and flexible. There are four zones: the boardwalk, the grove, the flexible field, and the marsh...and they can all be altered by nature (seasonal changes in plantings, water levels, etc.) or by man-made actions (scheduling different events, setting up temporary displays/tents/kiosks, etc.).

The boardwalk and the flexible field are the most changeable. Set up tents along the boardwalk for a farmer's market. Put up temporary art installations in the grassy field. Clear out the field and leave it an open area for picnicking or sunbathing or snowman building. Or just stroll along the pathways through the plaza. The yellow benches are for sitting, or laying down after a jog. The "curbs" are actually retaining walls...specifically built low enough to be used as bench seating overlooking the water, and terraced so they can be used as an impromptu amphitheater for small concerts or gatherings. You can also lie down on them. There are also places to fish along the river.

The grove is made of quaking aspens (not birch). They are pretty accustomed to being planted in dense concentrations without choking each other out. (http://www.google.com/images?q=%22quaking%20aspen%22&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1366&bih=613) The grove provides some nice shade (underneath which you can sit and eat, or stand and observe your surroundings, or do tai chi, or whatever else), color, and even sounds of rusting leaves in the wind.

The marsh along the bulkhead is there to perform a very important function. It acts as a sponge, to soak up stormwater and runoff, holding it, filtering it before it percolates into the ground or runs into the river, very much like the Stormwater Park in the Menomonee Valley. It is a unique green feature along an otherwise not-so-green riverbank in Downtown and Third Ward areas.

So no, it is not a waste of space, and you can indeed do much with it.

I like it...except for the marsh part of it. In reality it's more symbolic then anything functional given the size of paved area surrounding it. Quite frankly, the symbolism doesn't justify the lost space of this small plot of land in my opinion. Plus it does not look very well done. Otherwise it's not bad!

That pic Boatnurd posted with the Hoan bridge in the background just solidifes my strong belief that the Hoan is a useless and very ugly bridge. I know that the residents to the south of the city may use it every once in a while but they have to know a street level parkway would accomplish the same purpose.

I don't even care about the land Milwaukee would reclaim with the bridge gone. Its just an unsightly mess of a structure that should have never been built and should be done away with. I also disagree with the many people that think the Hoan is some sort of Icon for Milwaukee. It just seems to be that any structure that is big or imposing gets made into something that it isn't (i.e U.S bank building, calatrava, Hoan bridge, Miller park). Its almost like Milwaukee is desperately trying to find something to make itself seem cool, and as we all know, you can fake that sort of thing.

Anyhow, sorry for the long rant. I just have many complaints about our fair city and it pains me to know that if our so called leaders showed a little bit more effort our city could be up there with the rest of the top cities in this nation. Get rid of the school board or make it smaller, get rid of all the aldermen and supervisors (should be less of them), destroy the hoan, make Wisconsin ave/Water street retail strip more attractive to city residents (get foreign unknown stores down there with cheap prices an see how the are will flourish), focus on adding residents to downtown area, stricter requirements for new buildings (no more mistakes like the breakwater), and the list go and on.

Milwaukee has so much potential, I just want to see it live up to it.

I was going to post a rebuttal to the things I disagreed with in your post. But instead, just reread this post and put in the opposite of everything that was said and that's what my post would have been.

Well, except we agree that Milwaukee has a lot of potential we want it to live up to. :)

Its just an unsightly mess of a structure that should have never been built and should be done away with. I also disagree with the many people that think the Hoan is some sort of Icon for Milwaukee. It just seems to be that any structure that is big or imposing gets made into something that it isn't (i.e U.S bank building, calatrava, Hoan bridge, Miller park). Its almost like Milwaukee is desperately trying to find something to make itself seem cool, and as we all know, you can fake that sort of thing.

So, aside from the Hoan bridge, you're saying that the US Bank building, the Calatrava and Miller Park are mistakes, or fake? Just what would be good enough for you? Or should we just forgo any attempt at iconic structure and live underground?

I like the bridge just fine. I only wish they had done something more with both the bridge and the Lake Freeway. At least I hope the Parkway gets extended as far south as possible. And I'm sure there are thousands of people who use the bridge almost everyday. Given the numbers of traffic and the fact that it is not a true part of the interstate, there must be. A ground level street with multiple intersections will not accomplish the same freedom of movement.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/100786274.html

Study on O'Donnell structure continues; razing still on table

By Steve Schultze of the Journal Sentinel

Aug. 16, 2010 2:06 p.m.

Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker said Monday that razing all or part of the O'Donnell Park structure remains under consideration, as inspection work to determine the cause of the fatal collapse of a 13-ton concrete panel that killed a boy and injured two others continues.

Public safety remains the top concern, Walker said. Beyond that, Walker said, he'll do a cost-benefit analysis to determine the best long-term course of action on O'Donnell, a downtown park and parking garage built at a cost of about $30 million in the early 1990s on Lincoln Memorial Drive.

"We're looking at all the different options out there," he said.

Tearing down O'Donnell would be the most drastic option of several already under review.

Other options include removal of all of the 70 precast concrete panels like the one that fell June 24, killing 15-year-old Jared Kellner; repair of panel connections as needed; and replacing all the concrete panels with a different decorative façade, Walker said at a morning news briefing.

He said another possibility under review is closing the O'Donnell ramp but leaving the park and buildings on top of the ramp open. The Betty Brinn Children's Museum and Coast Restaurant in the O'Donnell Pavilion stand atop the O'Donnell structure. The museum and restaurant are open as usual, but the ramp has been closed since the accident.

Investigators have focused on the connections used to attach the panel that fell. The Journal Sentinel has reported that the original design for O'Donnell called for using four steel rod connections to link each panel to the garage parapet walls, but only two connectors were used. The paper also reported that predrilled holes for the steel rods weren't used and that additional holes were drilled at the construction site.

Walker said he wants the decision on whether the O'Donnell structure gets fixed to be one that can stand the test of time and not be something that ensures safety only in the short term.

Walker also said Monday that inspections on all but one of 106 county buildings - the Safety Building - have been done, as part of an emergency round of inspections prompted by the O'Donnell accident. Reports on the inspection are expected to be completed by early September.

Walker said some problems with a portion of the Safety Building near the roof had surfaced.

Work on strengthening the attachments of five precast concrete panels on the county's Transit Center, at 990 E. Michigan St., should be completed by Aug. 27, Walker said. Inspectors discovered five panels on the center had moved several inches from the walls on which they were attached.

Six of the 10 connection repairs needed for the five panels have been done; four remain.

The cause of the movement of the Transit Center panels was freezing and thawing, Walker said.

Insurance will pay for all but $50,000 of the $300,000 cost of repairing the county courthouse cornice and other exterior problems, Walker said. A volleyball-size chunk of the cornice - a decorative limestone trim atop the perimeter of the courthouse - fell March 4. The 20-pound piece fell on a sidewalk without injuring anyone.

A 2008 courthouse inspection report recommended $190,000 in repairs to the cornice and said the area had "significant deterioration and/or distress." The piece that fell was due to an ice dam freezing and thawing, Walker said.

Other work called for in the 2008 report that Walker said will be done this year along with the cornice repair includes removal of cracked glass and removing loose stone from the east side of the courthouse.

Walker said the courthouse work would likely be paid for by delaying a $350,000 financial computer upgrade. The repair work had been slated for 2011 but will done this year in conjunction with the cornice repair, he said.


-------------- What if they choose to tear the structure down? Then what happens, land sold to a private company, county keeps it and sits on it like the park east? And what if they decide to close the garage but leave it in place, how big of a blight will this be on the lakefront, right across from the MAM????

Markitect = the voice of reason on these boards. I'd be happy if he/she posted and nobody else ever did again.

It's amazing to me how so many other people on here, people who have absolutely no background in civil engineering, urban planning or architecture make these outstandingly broad know-it-all comments on here about how "no-one will ride the train"... (really? no-one? you've done statistical studies and found that zero people will actually take the train? zero? really? do you understand what "no-one" means?) and how "the hoan is a necessary bridge and there would be traffic jams without it".... (seriously? do you think the urban planners who proposed removing the bridge and replacing it with an at-grade street haven't done ANY research whatsoever into traffic patterns? do you think they never once thought to consider how many drivers use the bridge daily, how traffic would be affected if it were changed to a ground level street? really? do you honestly think you know better than they do? really?)

these projects (the HSR and replacing the Hoan with an at-grade street) aren't political. they aren't about spending your money wildly and irresponsibly. they are projects that are researched by planners and engineers and others who KNOW what makes for good cities. they have spent years studying these projects. they have looked at far more variables and potential factors than you could ever imagine. they know what they're doing when they make recommendations for things like this. we're not the experts, THEY are. let them build our city. it's what they do.

Except one thing Max. They haven't done comprehensive studies yet so they don't actually know those things about the hoan yet. The entire debate about doing the at grade road has to do with funding the study or not, not whether it should be built or not.

That pic Boatnurd posted with the Hoan bridge in the background just solidifes my strong belief that the Hoan is a useless and very ugly bridge. I know that the residents to the south of the city may use it every once in a while but they have to know a street level parkway would accomplish the same purpose.

I'm not going to get into the useless/essential debate, but I can't let the 'very ugly bridge' pass. Everybody's tastes are different, but that bridge is better looking than 95% of the bridges in the state. The high rise bridge on I-94 south of the Marquette is ugly, if any bridge is ugly. The Hoan is a nice tied arch bridge, not a simple concrete blah. I guess the colors are perhaps questionable, but I just cannot fathom how the beautiful lines of the Hoan can be construed as ugly. Unless of course your views of the Hoan's usefulness are coloring your views on its aesthetics.

Boatnurd's picture is very nice. The only ugly thing in it is the parking lot behind the park. Otherwise it is a very nice picture.

Eriol- The point I was trying to make is that most of the so called "iconic" structures in Milwaukee just aren't. The only structure that Milwaukee has that could be said to be cool in its own right would be the Calatrava (and only because it was designed by a world class architect). That people in this city think that the U.S bank tower is something special is not even laughable, it is just sad. People need to understand that for the most part, Milwaukee is a generic city. Slowly the city is trying to shed this image but there are still times when it shoots itself on the foot (for instance the breakwater, miller park in its current location, the casino in its current location, park east nuclear waste land, and the list goes on and on).

I'm not saying that Milwaukee should forgo at attempts to make itself stand out, i'm all for bettering this city. I believe that a new basketball stadium downtown, the proposed Marcus HQ, pabst city, and perhaps the Catalyst (original design) could all do wonders for improving the image of this city. But i'm also realistic, and the reality is that Milwaukee is a city that for every office building there is a very generic parking structure that takes up a city block next to it. The reality is that the urban fabric is very torn in this city. The only area of Milwaukee that has any uniform continuaty to it is the third ward (which is ironic because many of the people that live there are from chicagoland).

As for the Hoan bridge, I'm sorry but the truth is the truth. It is a very ugly bridge, Its job could be done by a street level parkway. The only reason that it isn't being torn down is because the residents to the south of the city don't want to add 6 minutes to their commute downtown. Do you really think a parkway like lake drive in Chicago wouldn't work in Milwaukee?

Again, I see massive amounts of potential in Milwaukee. Its important that Milwaukee not try to be like every other city and have uniqueness to it. But most of the architecture and urban planning in this city is just brutal. Hopefully that changes in the next decade or two.

We're just going to have to disagree.

Now, the above back and forth is interesting and I'm not trying to call out either poster... I just thought this is apt.

Anyway, I think part of the problem/reason that Milwaukee can't ever manage to change or reinvent itself at a faster pace, is that the metro/state is so divided over not only if xyz should happen, but what xyz needs to happen to improve Milwaukee. There is not enough consensus, too many ideas at the table, and way too little action.

There's way more that could be said on this... that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Eriol- The point I was trying to make is that most of the so called "iconic" structures in Milwaukee just aren't. The only structure that Milwaukee has that could be said to be cool in its own right would be the Calatrava (and only because it was designed by a world class architect). That people in this city think that the U.S bank tower is something special is not even laughable, it is just sad. People need to understand that for the most part, Milwaukee is a generic city. Slowly the city is trying to shed this image but there are still times when it shoots itself on the foot (for instance the breakwater, miller park in its current location, the casino in its current location, park east nuclear waste land, and the list goes on and on).

I'm not saying that Milwaukee should forgo at attempts to make itself stand out, i'm all for bettering this city. I believe that a new basketball stadium downtown, the proposed Marcus HQ, pabst city, and perhaps the Catalyst (original design) could all do wonders for improving the image of this city. But i'm also realistic, and the reality is that Milwaukee is a city that for every office building there is a very generic parking structure that takes up a city block next to it. The reality is that the urban fabric is very torn in this city. The only area of Milwaukee that has any uniform continuaty to it is the third ward (which is ironic because many of the people that live there are from chicagoland).

As for the Hoan bridge, I'm sorry but the truth is the truth. It is a very ugly bridge, Its job could be done by a street level parkway. The only reason that it isn't being torn down is because the residents to the south of the city don't want to add 6 minutes to their commute downtown. Do you really think a parkway like lake drive in Chicago wouldn't work in Milwaukee?

Again, I see massive amounts of potential in Milwaukee. Its important that Milwaukee not try to be like every other city and have uniqueness to it. But most of the architecture and urban planning in this city is just brutal. Hopefully that changes in the next decade or two.

Almost every city is generic. Not every building can be a landmark. The Breakwater is a just another condo tower and it really isn't a horrible looking building.

I also disagree on Miller Park. Building it downtown would require a ton of new parking lots/structures and that would take away from the potential of that area. I would prefer that part of downtown continue to develop into a dense, vibrant area rather than one that will be desolate most of the year. The Park East is a work in progress, but I think they made the right choice there. It's just bad timing with the economy. As for the casino, it could have been built in a better location but was that the city's choice to make? In some ways, I prefer it down there. Imagine all the bums, beggars, lowlifes, and deadbeats that would plague downtown if it was located down there. It would be a negative drawback to having more people downtown with the casino.

Of course, Milwaukee isn't a perfect city but I really think it's not as bad as you are making it out to be. You are sort of having expecations that Milwaukee be like Paris or something. It's a huge work in progress and I think the city has vastly improved this past decade. It was something of a generic city and it now considered a cool place to be by many.

El Mariachi- You are a hundred percent right in saying that most cities are generic. Thats why landmarks are landmarks and everything else is just filler. I do hear what your saying, and Milwaukee is trying to make itself be more unique.

I understand why some people like Miller Park where it is (tailgating and parking), and for the most part I don't fault it. The reason I don't fault it is because Milwaukee really isn't that interesting to look at. We don't have much of a skyline and there is no place downtown that could capture what little skyline we have to make an excellent backdrop to miller park (the phillies have a beautiful ball park with a beautiful backdrop for instance). As for the casino, I hear you on that one too, but at the same time isn't more pedestrian traffic what downtown needs? It is literally a ghost town past 6pm downtown (except on parts of water/3rd and Jefferson/Milwaukee for the drinking crowd).

And the park east area is simple just ghastly. I also think tearing down the freeway was a good idea but I thought the county would sell the land to the city and let them handle it. The county has done nothing to promote uses of the land (except one giant stupid hotel that was a bad idea to begin with).

I will acknowledge that I see things in a different light since i'm originally from NYC. I don't want Milwaukee to emulate NYC or Chicago but instead to have its own thing going on. With that being said Milwaukee could sure do some things in the short term to make its downtown area look more uniform. Seriously, how is it that on prime riverfront property there are two giant ugly parking structures that sit across form each other? How to urban planners allow this sort of things to happen? How is it that southern edge of downtown Milwaukee is mostly surface parking lots and parking structures that after 6 on any given night remains empty and creates an eyesore? I mean, going into the city from the south you are greeted by a coal power plant that would make Gary,ID proud.

I guess I just want Milwaukee to speed things up. I know the economy doesn't allow the city to do a whole lot but there are things they could fight harder for. How do you allow UW-Milwaukee to build an engineering campus in Tosa when there is plenty of land in the park east corridor?

Baker Tilly considers relocation to Weas or Irgens projects downtown
Published August 18, 2010 - Real Estate Weekly

1 of 13 | Next

Baker Tilly Virchow Krause LLP has narrowed its relocation options for its Milwaukee office to two proposed downtown developments, one planned by Milwaukee-based Weas Development and the other planned by a partnership of Wauwatosa-based Irgens Development Partners LLC and Joel Lee, president of Milwaukee-based Van Buren Management Inc.
In addition, a prominent Milwaukee commercial real estate source said Milwaukee law firm Von Briesen & Roper S.C., which is also in the market for a new downtown office location, has narrowed its options to two sites and is eager to relocate from its current location at 411 E. Wisconsin Ave.
Baker Tilly, an accounting and advisory firm, could decide to keep its Milwaukee office in the Honey Creek Corporate Center at 115 S. 84th St., on Milwaukee’s west side. Its lease there expires in December of 2012. However, Kevin Heppner, regional managing partner in Wisconsin for Baker Tilly Virchow Krause, said the firm is “leaning toward” moving to a new downtown building.
“We are still very strongly considering the move downtown,” Heppner said. “As of now, we are not committed to any project.”
Baker Tilly has hired Steve Palec of CB Richard Ellis to help it determine which office location is the best option for the firm, Heppner said.
The firm plans to make a decision within the next 4 to 6 weeks, he said.
The Weas site is located southeast of North Broadway and East Michigan Street. It would be about 15 to 20 stories tall, including parking, Heppner said.
The Irgens/Lee site is located southeast of Mason Street and Jefferson Street, across the street from the Pfister Hotel. It would be about 20 to 25 stories tall, including parking, Heppner said.
Both sites are currently occupied primarily by surface parking lots.
Baker Tilly has more than 200 employees in its Milwaukee office and is seeking 60,000 to 65,000 square feet of space for the office, Heppner said.
The company wants a site with good access and parking for employees, Heppner said. A site near the freeway with signage for the company is desirable, but a lack of those attributes would not be a “deal-breaker” he said.
The capital markets for commercial real estate are extremely tight right now and many lenders are reluctant to provide financing for commercial real estate developments. Any project will need to obtain a significant amount of pre-leased space and the developer will have to provide a significant amount of equity to get financing for a major commercial development, industry experts say.
Therefore, the proposed office building developments in downtown Milwaukee will probably need at least two anchor tenants to obtain financing, according to several commercial real estate sources.
Baker Tilly could be one anchor tenant for a downtown office development.
Milwaukee law firm Godfrey & Kahn S.C. plans to eventually relocate its headquarters. Commercial real estate sources indicate the firm plans to move to the Irgens project, if it comes together.
“If Irgens can put a building together we would be very attracted to that,” Rick Bliss, managing partner of Godfrey & Kahn, said in May.
Godfrey & Kahn’s headquarters is currently located in the M&I Bank corporate headquarters building at 780 N. Water St. The firm is out of room to expand there and has indicated for years that it will eventually need to move to a new building. The firm needs about 90,000 square feet of space.
Von Briesen & Roper is seeking about 75,000 square feet of office space. The law firm’s president and chief executive officer, Randall Crocker recently indicated that the firm, currently located at 411 E. Wisconsin Ave., will likely relocate.
A major reason that Von Briesen plans to relocate is that it is in the same building as one of its competitors, Quarles & Brady, which has a large sign on top of the building. One commercial real estate source said that Von Briesen would be willing to share a building with Godfrey & Kahn, as long as there is no Godfrey & Kahn sign on the building.
If that is true it is possible that the Irgens/Lee project could attract three anchor tenants: Baker Tilly, Von Briesen and Godfrey & Kahn.
Crocker has said that Von Briesen plans to make a decision by the end of the third quarter, which is in about 6 weeks.
Advertisement

http://www.biztimes.com/realestateweekly/2010/8/18/baker-tilly-considers-relocation-to-weas-or-irgens-projects-downtown


An exciting notion if all three or even two of the mentioned tenants were to choose the same location. Both the Weas and Irgens developments would go in areas that are definitely in need of a boost. Both are in key areas where the skyline could use more density too, in my opinion. Fingers crossed.

^^ Definitely one of the more exciting development-related articles to pass through in a while.

I guess I just want Milwaukee to speed things up. I know the economy doesn't allow the city to do a whole lot but there are things they could fight harder for. How do you allow UW-Milwaukee to build an engineering campus in Tosa when there is plenty of land in the park east corridor?

Well, right, but what do WE do? I'm a student here, I'm totally against the location, and there's not a damn thing I can do. It pisses me off but the matter is in the hands of a relative few (namely Santiago, who is now leaving). There's not enough students that care about the issue to get any sort of meaningful petition against it, so realistically I don't know of any way to change the outcome of the matter. I would love to see it go downtown, as would many others. Do you or does anyone else share this view and have any feasible ideas? I think it's too far gone by this point but I wish I was wrong.

The Weas site is located southeast of North Broadway and East Michigan Street. It would be about 15 to 20 stories tall, including parking, Heppner said.
The Irgens/Lee site is located southeast of Mason Street and Jefferson Street, across the street from the Pfister Hotel. It would be about 20 to 25 stories tall, including parking, Heppner said.

So, the Irgens location would apparently be Washington Square, but shorter than the most recent rendering we've seen of that (30 stories, correct?). I don't know anything about the Weas location, but interestingly their old proposal, the 18-story Renaissance ClubSport Marriott that they had proposed about four years ago was to be located two blocks south at the southeast corner of Broadway and St. Paul., across from the Wicked Hop. Wonder if this is a completely separate, new proposal by Weas or if they're looking to incorporate a hotel and/or fitness club into this building.

^^ I thought both the Weas and Irgens sites were at/near the Broadway and Wisconsin location... no?

Wow, this is great news. I really hope the Irgens/Lee project goes through... well, except that I haven't seen a rendering. Right now I'm only basing that on the fact that it is the taller of the two projects. :)

El Mariachi- You are a hundred percent right in saying that most cities are generic. Thats why landmarks are landmarks and everything else is just filler. I do hear what your saying, and Milwaukee is trying to make itself be more unique.

I think Milwaukee is rather unique. Unique is size, scope, feel... we have a great diversity in architecture that is rare in medium and larger cities, we have a great lakefront unlike any other city except Chicago... but even then I like ours better.


I understand why some people like Miller Park where it is (tailgating and parking), and for the most part I don't fault it. The reason I don't fault it is because Milwaukee really isn't that interesting to look at. We don't have much of a skyline and there is no place downtown that could capture what little skyline we have to make an excellent backdrop to miller park (the phillies have a beautiful ball park with a beautiful backdrop for instance).

OK, I like skylines as much as anyone else on a skyscraper forum. However, when I go to baseball games I go for the baseball and the experience. In Milwaukee the tailgating is as much part of the game as the crack of the bat. The skyline in the backround is nice but not as integral as other things. Even if we had an awesome skyline I'm glad it is where it is.


As for the casino, I hear you on that one too, but at the same time isn't more pedestrian traffic what downtown needs? It is literally a ghost town past 6pm downtown (except on parts of water/3rd and Jefferson/Milwaukee for the drinking crowd).

The only part of downtown these days that's a ghost down is maybe the CBD. But venture beyond those 3-4 blocks and I see people out and about all the time. 3rd ward, milwaukee street, water street, Old world third, all over the upper downtown area where there are apts and condos, and keep going out to brady street, east side, even 5th ward is getting busier. You need to get out more after 6 pm.

And the park east area is simple just ghastly. I also think tearing down the freeway was a good idea but I thought the county would sell the land to the city and let them handle it. The county has done nothing to promote uses of the land (except one giant stupid hotel that was a bad idea to begin with).

See, it's not all bad. I agree with you here.


I will acknowledge that I see things in a different light since i'm originally from NYC. I don't want Milwaukee to emulate NYC or Chicago but instead to have its own thing going on. With that being said Milwaukee could sure do some things in the short term to make its downtown area look more uniform.

More uniform? You were just saying how Milwaukee wasn't unique and now you want to make it all uniform? Like some sort of homogenous blahville like the suburbs? Milwaukee is recognized for having great diversity in architecture and we have many great buildings besides the MAM addition. The Mackie building, the federal building, the courthouse, pabst theater, the astor, the charles allis museum, the blatz, the Germania building, city hall, the historical society, the mitchell building, northwestern mutual HQ, St. Johns, turner hall and more! And that was just off the top of my head!

, how is it that on prime riverfront property there are two giant ugly parking structures that sit across form each other? How to urban planners allow this sort of things to happen?

One of those parking structures actually looks pretty good and is combined with a hotel and is a great use of space. The other (Chase bank building parking structure) was designed to have a building added on top of it at any time. In fact, there were a couple proposals in the last 10 years to do so. Not to mention that the Marine bank building (Chase) was a catalytic project at the time and really got downtown booming again in the 80's. How could planners have let that project happen?! Oh wait, glad they did!


How is it that southern edge of downtown Milwaukee is mostly surface parking lots and parking structures that after 6 on any given night remains empty and creates an eyesore? I mean, going into the city from the south you are greeted by a coal power plant that would make Gary,ID proud.

Urban renewal and making room for the 794 spur back in the day.

I guess I just want Milwaukee to speed things up. I know the economy doesn't allow the city to do a whole lot but there are things they could fight harder for. How do you allow UW-Milwaukee to build an engineering campus in Tosa when there is plenty of land in the park east corridor?


The UW question is a good one to me. I guess we have two things to agree on.

Your point of view is clearly not in line with the type of city that Milwaukee is. If you took more time to appreciate what is here instead of wishing for what isn't you'd probably come to realize how great of a city we really have.

Gary, ID?? ^^ :)

Gary, ID?? ^^ :)

Gary, Idaho?

I know what you meant, but what does Gary have to do with anything?

More uniform? You were just saying how Milwaukee wasn't unique and now you want to make it all uniform? Like some sort of homogenous blahville like the suburbs? Milwaukee is recognized for having great diversity in architecture and we have many great buildings besides the MAM addition. The Mackie building, the federal building, the courthouse, pabst theater, the astor, the charles allis museum, the blatz, the Germania building, city hall, the historical society, the mitchell building, northwestern mutual HQ, St. Johns, turner hall and more! And that was just off the top of my head!


I think what he meant was more uniform-- in the sense of a more filled-in skyline-- instead of one with big gaps in it (Park East), surface lots downtown, etc, not one with buildings that all look architectually similar...

To AJKNEE: ^^ I was just smiling at the confusion that was orignally posted by Jehuty - and copied above by Coldwake. Just being silly. I knew what he meant too - when he put Gary, ID --- but I just thought the idea of Gary in Idaho was humorous. No big deal.

Driving on 794 the other day towards downtown you really can visualize what a huge contribution to the skyline either building would be. The Irgens devlopment would rise well above all the surrounding buildings, including the Pfister. The Weas one would be an extremely visable location just off the interstate and only surrounded by 4-5 story buildings for the most part. Truly I'd love to see all three tenants combine so we could get something 25-30 stories at the Irgens location.

Wow, this is great news. I really hope the Irgens/Lee project goes through... well, except that I haven't seen a rendering. Right now I'm only basing that on the fact that it is the taller of the two projects. :)

I doubt this rendering is even remotely accurate anymore, but this was once envisioned by Rinka Chung for the Irgens/Lee site.

http://rinkachung.com/Project%20Pages/Washington%20Square/Images/WS-2.gif

http://rinkachung.com/Project%20Pages/Washington%20Square/Images/WS-3.gif

The description also notes that this is a 35-story tower, so, again, probably has no bearing on what would be built.

Coldwake- Glad we can agree on some things but I feel like you've misunderstood some of my arguments. As a mid twenty something still in school i'm always out and about in Milwaukee. I live on the eastside because of its proximity to school (U-Dub) and the feel it has to it (a busier version of bayview). Milwaukee is unique, I'm not arguing against that. There are many parts of the city that I just love (riverfront, third ward, bay view, eastside, and walkers point), those areas elevate Milwaukee's image.

With that being said, I also realize that Milwaukee lacks in many areas and the area which is lacks most is probably its downtown. MilwaukeeMax understood what I meant when I said the city needs to be more uniform.I don't want the buildings to all the same, but rather that there be buildings instead of surface lots and ugly parking garages.

I hear what your saying when it comes to baseball and the skyline not being important. But it also doesn't hurt to locate a stadium downtown and have a beautiful backdrop. Tailgating is fun and all (and the only reason to go a Brewers game) so I understand your point which is why Miller park being located in the valley works.

I've been out in downtown past 6pm, and I know how busy parts of it can be because of the drinking scene. But lets no kid ourselves, downtown is a ghostown during most parts of the day. Brady street, North ave, and 3rd ward are hardly considered downtown.

I don't really knock Milwaukee or anything, I like living here. Sure the is a bunch of stuff that needs improvement in Milwaukee, but that can be said for any city. I just like to highlight what I believe are Milwaukee's faults to encourage discussion amongst my peers and because this is the city I currently reside in. I'm thankful for this forum because it allows be all of us to discuss what we think could make this city better.

Project plans cast shadow on O’Donnell

Sean Ryan
Real Estate Reporter
The Business Journal of Milwaukee

Friday, August 20, 2010, 3:15pm CDT | Modified: Friday, August 20, 2010, 3:43pm
Rendering provided by the city of Milwaukee
http://assets.bizjournals.com/cms_media/milwaukee/blog/real_estate/2010/08/DowntownPlan90.jpg?site=bizjournals.com

The pursuit of a new downtown high-rise and more museums near the O’Donnell Park parking structure is becoming part of the city's official development plan.

Milwaukee architects and developers kicked around the concepts this week when I asked them what could be done with the O’Donnell property in the unlikely event that the county tears down the building. But the city actually includes a rendering of the vision in its downtown plan, which lists a new high rise and cultural center near O’Donnell as a catalytic project for downtown.

The rendering shows a new blue building casting its shadow on the O’Donnell structure at the corner of East Michigan Street and Lincoln Memorial Drive. The building stands on what is now a small grassy area just south of the garage.

The O’Donnell garage still exists in this rendering world even though the downtown plan knocks the structure for being “underdeveloped.” The county’s Downtown Transit Center, which is across Michigan Street from the parking structure, is gone in the rendering. Instead, there’s a new Lakefront Plaza that features sculptures, interactive fountains and retail kiosks.

The city's downtown plan picks up on the one common thread between the conversations I had with development industry types this week: Milwaukee needs something better at that spot



Read more: Project plans cast shadow on O’Donnell - The Business Journal of Milwaukee

Project plans cast shadow on O’Donnell

Sean Ryan
Real Estate Reporter
The Business Journal of Milwaukee

Friday, August 20, 2010, 3:15pm CDT | Modified: Friday, August 20, 2010, 3:43pm
Rendering provided by the city of Milwaukee
http://assets.bizjournals.com/cms_media/milwaukee/blog/real_estate/2010/08/DowntownPlan90.jpg?site=bizjournals.com

The pursuit of a new downtown high-rise and more museums near the O’Donnell Park parking structure is becoming part of the city's official development plan.

Milwaukee architects and developers kicked around the concepts this week when I asked them what could be done with the O’Donnell property in the unlikely event that the county tears down the building. But the city actually includes a rendering of the vision in its downtown plan, which lists a new high rise and cultural center near O’Donnell as a catalytic project for downtown.

The rendering shows a new blue building casting its shadow on the O’Donnell structure at the corner of East Michigan Street and Lincoln Memorial Drive. The building stands on what is now a small grassy area just south of the garage.

The O’Donnell garage still exists in this rendering world even though the downtown plan knocks the structure for being “underdeveloped.” The county’s Downtown Transit Center, which is across Michigan Street from the parking structure, is gone in the rendering. Instead, there’s a new Lakefront Plaza that features sculptures, interactive fountains and retail kiosks.

The city's downtown plan picks up on the one common thread between the conversations I had with development industry types this week: Milwaukee needs something better at that spot



Read more: Project plans cast shadow on O’Donnell - The Business Journal of Milwaukee

Love the idea of re-purposing that area, it is quite dead for an area of downtown / lakefront that should have more going on. I wonder how different this plan would be if they tear the garage down?

Well just some stuff that I think should be posted here,
that i cant believe was overlooked,
or i just didnt think that I needed to supplement my milwaukee development reading as much as i do now with tom daykins blog

UWM purchase of hospital property wins Building Commission approval
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Aug. 11, 2010 |(15) Comments

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/100460859.html


University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee's plan to buy the neighboring Columbia St. Mary's Hospital complex for $20.2 million won unanimous approval Wednesday afternoon from the state Building Commission's Higher Education Sub-Committee.

...................

It will be the largest expansion of the UWM campus since the university bought the 43-acre, 14-building Milwaukee-Downer College campus north of E. Hartford Ave., between N. Downer and N. Maryland avenues, in 1964.

Just general news, yes its not milwaukee
but anyone in southeastern wisconsin needs to know
and i guess maybe you already know
but i dont know that it was covered in your news up there

Mars Cheese Castle breaks ground on new home
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Aug. 16, 2010 |

Yeah, you know you're writing a commercial real estate blog in Wisconsin when this is news:

Mars Cheese Castle will have a groundbreaking event at 10 a.m. Tuesday to mark construction of a new 21,004-square-foot building at I-94 and Highway 142, in Kenosha.

The new building will be just west of where Mars has been located since 1947. The new castle, which is being designed and built by MSI General Construction, is to completed by March.

The current building will be demolished to make way for the I-94 reconstruction project.

Apartments proposed for east side seek $8 million HUD loan guarantee
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Aug. 20, 2010

The developer of a 68-unit apartment building proposed for Milwaukee's east side hopes to break ground in October--if the project obtains a loan guarantee from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.

Wangard Partners Inc. is seeking the federal guarantee for an $8 million loan for the project, which would be built on land east of HighBridge condominiums, 1888 N. Water St. That hillside site overlooks the Milwaukee River, near Humboldt Ave.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/101082919.html

Just general news, yes its not milwaukee
but anyone in southeastern wisconsin needs to know
and i guess maybe you already know
but i dont know that it was covered in your news up there

Mars Cheese Castle breaks ground on new home
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Aug. 16, 2010 |

Yeah, you know you're writing a commercial real estate blog in Wisconsin when this is news:

Mars Cheese Castle will have a groundbreaking event at 10 a.m. Tuesday to mark construction of a new 21,004-square-foot building at I-94 and Highway 142, in Kenosha.

The new building will be just west of where Mars has been located since 1947. The new castle, which is being designed and built by MSI General Construction, is to completed by March.

The current building will be demolished to make way for the I-94 reconstruction project.

and it will look somewhat like a real castle this time!

http://www.kenoshanews.com/news/12912345_620.jpg

nice drawbridge! ^^^^

Part of why i try to keep abreast of development
is because it just somehow keeps me calm to
know WHAT change is occuring. I guess surprises
are ok, but I like to know ahead of time whats
going on and to not worry. Weird I know.
Maybe it should have another turret.
But I guess one will suffice to keep off the marauding
hordes during the apocolypse

El Mariachi- You are a hundred percent right in saying that most cities are generic. Thats why landmarks are landmarks and everything else is just filler. I do hear what your saying, and Milwaukee is trying to make itself be more unique.

I understand why some people like Miller Park where it is (tailgating and parking), and for the most part I don't fault it. The reason I don't fault it is because Milwaukee really isn't that interesting to look at. We don't have much of a skyline and there is no place downtown that could capture what little skyline we have to make an excellent backdrop to miller park (the phillies have a beautiful ball park with a beautiful backdrop for instance). As for the casino, I hear you on that one too, but at the same time isn't more pedestrian traffic what downtown needs? It is literally a ghost town past 6pm downtown (except on parts of water/3rd and Jefferson/Milwaukee for the drinking crowd).

I think Milwaukee has a good skyline, but it would be tough to build a stadium in a place that would offer a good backdrop. The best place to built it to get that effect would probally be right off 43 where McKinley Ave. heads into downtown. A stadium there attached to a refurbished Pabst Brewery would be pretty cool. The backdrop that Philly has is nice, but the skyline is a bit further away from the stadium. I prefer PNC in Pittsburgh.

I also would like more pedestrian traffic in downtown, but having a casino there would bring a bad element to the area. You would have all kinds of bums and deadbeats hanging around the area as it would be a 24 hour establishment. As a frequent Potawatomi visitor, I also see what kind of people hang out there. Older, poorer, penny slot/bingo playing, chain smoking, types. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I don't see them adding much vibrancy to downtown. They would park, go to the casino, and then leave just like they do in the current location. They don't seem like Water Street types. Granted, I could be wrong but I doubt it. Maybe if it was the table game/poker room players, the Dream Dance diners, and the younger crowd. But they seem to be outnumbered by the blue collar types drinking their free sodas, smoking up the joint, and playing their themed video slot games. I realize this probally makes me sound arrogant, but for the record I am blue collar. :)

And the park east area is simple just ghastly. I also think tearing down the freeway was a good idea but I thought the county would sell the land to the city and let them handle it. The county has done nothing to promote uses of the land (except one giant stupid hotel that was a bad idea to begin with).

It is ghastly right now as it looks like an bombed out area during WWII. But I forsee big things there. Hopefully that ends up being a new arena for the Bucks, some apartments/condos, and development that reaches the Brewery.

I disagree about the Palomar though. That would have been a great addition to the city and the skyline, esp. with Moderne next door.

I will acknowledge that I see things in a different light since i'm originally from NYC. I don't want Milwaukee to emulate NYC or Chicago but instead to have its own thing going on. With that being said Milwaukee could sure do some things in the short term to make its downtown area look more uniform. Seriously, how is it that on prime riverfront property there are two giant ugly parking structures that sit across form each other? How to urban planners allow this sort of things to happen? How is it that southern edge of downtown Milwaukee is mostly surface parking lots and parking structures that after 6 on any given night remains empty and creates an eyesore? I mean, going into the city from the south you are greeted by a coal power plant that would make Gary,ID proud.

Right here I think you are picking out random buildings/areas and using them to judge Milwaukee too harshly. Milwaukee isn't perfect and is still a work in progress. Every city has these sorts of wasted spaces and bad decisions from another era. There was a proposal to redo the Chase parking tower and add a tower to the site. Don't know if thats ever going to happen. It doesn't really bother me though because this city has done such a stellar job with the rest of the riverfront. How many cities have something as extensive and as great as what we have there? Walkways and pedestrian areas starting at lakefront parks, leading through the downtown core of the city, and then into a huge greenway that often doesn't even feel like it's within the city.

As for the WE Energies plant, I love it! It's a huge, imposing strucutre that really doesn't ruin any part of the skyline. I know it's not everyones cup of tea, but I love huge industrial/utility buildings. Milwaukee has such a nice mix buildings in my opinion.

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9219/070dr.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/i/070dr.jpg/)

I just read Daykin's article on the updated downtown plan and was curious what you all think should be done with the Grand Ave. Mall? It seems like that is turning into a lost cause. Aside from the food court (which is popular), Brew City Beer Gear, and that nice pen shop---there isn't a real reason to go there. I am of the belief that it can never be resurrected and it's a dead mall. Which is sad because it's a nice space and a nice location.

Should they just tear down the newer parts of the mall, save the older parts (Plankinton Arcade), and redevelop everything?

Should they just tear down the newer parts of the mall, save the older parts (Plankinton Arcade), and redevelop everything?

Short answer- yes. The must save the Plankinton Arcade, even though they screwed it up years ago when they remodeled it for LNT.

I just read Daykin's article on the updated downtown plan and was curious what you all think should be done with the Grand Ave. Mall? It seems like that is turning into a lost cause. Aside from the food court (which is popular), Brew City Beer Gear, and that nice pen shop---there isn't a real reason to go there. I am of the belief that it can never be resurrected and it's a dead mall. Which is sad because it's a nice space and a nice location.

Should they just tear down the newer parts of the mall, save the older parts (Plankinton Arcade), and redevelop everything?

No, there's no reason to tear down the newer part of the mall. It's a very nice arcade. The mall needs a new identity. If TJ Maxx can get moved somewhere (the empty Posner building across the street maybe?) then the Plankington Arcade can get rebranded as an upscale mall (separate from the newer arcade), but this time around the shops need to open up to Wisconsin Ave as well. Also the newer arcade needs to be given a name. I think it might be best for the two arcades to retain separate management but remain connected, similar to Copley Place and Prudential Center in Boston.

Short answer- yes. The must save the Plankinton Arcade, even though they screwed it up years ago when they remodeled it for LNT.

I couldn't agree more, when they moved in Linen's N Things and TJ Max, they DESTROYED the plankinton arcade. The giant plexi panels up top ruin the open feeling, the lack of use of the stairs on the east and west ends, and the cheap crap they peddle just ruined the look of what, in my opinion, is the most beautiful buildings downtown.


As for fixing the mall, well, I have a slightly different take, and almost 100% economically unfeasible idea, but I would love a Joeseph Zilber, Michael Cuday, Jane Bradley type to come in and do it. Id do it myself, but with 2 bucks in the bank account I don't really have the funds for anything :P

Anywho, my pipe-dream would be to reopen the Warner Grand across the street. The theatre is in relatively good condition, but would definitely need a rehab, especially after they split it in two, and then removed the seperation, leaving a huge scar across the interior. If they were able to make that into a single screen, and then if you go behind that site, towards what I think is wells street, there are two HUGE plots of land, currently street level parking, that could be incorporated into a new modern movie theatre (made to match the old style of the Grand of course :P ) and you could easily have a multiplex, right across from the grand avenue mall. Find a way to connect it directly to Grand Avenue (skywalk most likely, but underground not out of the question) and bam, you have dowtown Milwaukee's ONLY multiplex connected to a mall, and I really think the boom would happen all over again, just like out at Mayfair mall (yes I realize the boom there started before, but the theatre helped to allow them to expand the entire second floor over there, and add the new tiny anchor stores and restaurants)

Why I think it would work, UWM, Marquette, MSOE, MATC, MIAD and the other schools I am missing are all relatively close to downtown, and are full of kids who WOULD go to this theatre.

Now for the problems, the cost being the most glaring and obvious, the other being Marcus currently owns the Grand and has no desire to sell it to a competior or actually do what I have laid out here. They, as many of you know, want to build a new theatre on North Water, which while I would normally love, and I really do think Milwaukee needs a downtown multiplex, I think it is in the completly wrong area. Sure it would be the anchor for a new 15-20 story building, but for so many reasons I think that site is wrong. First of all, its on the river, and why would prime real estate like that need to be used by a bunch of dark windowless rooms? If I am not mistaken, 5 floors of that building are also supposed to be parking structure. So now we have a large majority of this building, at a prime location as unattractive space. Sure it could be made to look nice, but its still a prime area. It would be a new chase parking structure all over again IMO. And the area around it, while not directly on Water, is still known as an area filled with bars, and I don't think that drunks are necessarily the kind of foot-traffic you would want for a theatre. I know, not everyone will be drunk, but a large percentage undoubtedly will be, and I am also aware there are bars near the Grand, but I think that the foot-traffic there would be more of the kind one would want for a theatre. Not to mention mall traffic hours are closer to theatre operating hours than bar hours are.

Also the Grand is close to how many hotels? Hilton, Hyatt, Double Tree, and what is it, a Holiday Inn down a block or so? All these things make the Grand a much better location in my mind.

So in the end, I think building up the Grand again would be a huge catalyst to Grand Avenue Mall, but I know its to far fetched to happen. I would love it, but I think Marcus is settled with the Water street location, and has no desire to compete with themselves in the downtown market.

If only I had the power to sit down and argue the benefits of the Grand site to get them to see my way! I can see a vertical "GRAND" sign in my mind now. Would look so great driving down Wisconsin Ave.

Sorry this was more of an essay, and more about a movie theatre than what to do with Grand Avenue... >_<

EDIT

Oh, and the other day, I was reading the 2010 plan for Catalytic projects in downtown.... http://www.mkedcd.org/planning/plans/downtown/index.html ...and right off the bat, they continuously say how people want a downtown movie theatre (Again, I know Marcus already has plans covering that) but going through the hundreds of pages, you can really get a sense that the area the city is trying to focus on is right where the Grand is, and a lot of improvements are wanted in that area. If you are reading through, you can see how they want bike paths right next to it, how the specific parking lots behind the Grand are areas they really want developed, how the street next to it they want to make two-ways. I mean everything in that layout screamed for this to be a perfect example of what they were looking for. If I recall also, there is a parking structure across the one way street from the Grand that could accomodate parking. Not to mention Grand Avenue Mall's parking. Just have the theatre be able to comp your ticket. I really wish I knew someone in Marcus and someone in the Mayors office so I could sit them down and get them to try and consider this. I really do think this would be a HUGE boon for the area.

^^^^ @El Mariachi:

Just wondering have you seen the articles done in the Journal Sentinel lately about the fact that WE energies hasn't updated pollution controls at the valley plant thus making it one of the most polluting in the state...

Here's an editorial couldn't find the original article I am referencing...

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/99272829.html

Don't get me wrong industrial looks can be cool, but when this one is so close to the lakefront and downtown spewing pollution... my thoughts are Green it up or tear it down!

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/99910624.html

Here's another article.

Anywho, my pipe-dream would be to reopen the Warner Grand across the street. The theatre is in relatively good condition, but would definitely need a rehab, especially after they split it in two, and then removed the seperation, leaving a huge scar across the interior.

The fact that we have a deteriorating palace like this downtown that a large portion of the general public has no idea about makes me sad. Of all the things that could get fixed up downtown, ever since I learned about this place, it's been pretty much at the top of my list. I can definitely appreciate your passion for wanting this place to get made into the beautiful, unique space that it should be. It would be a travesty if it was lost forever, Milwaukee needs to hold onto all that it has.



Oh, and the other day, I was reading the 2010 plan for Catalytic projects in downtown.... http://www.mkedcd.org/planning/plans/downtown/index.html ...and right off the bat, they continuously say how people want a downtown movie theatre (Again, I know Marcus already has plans covering that) but going through the hundreds of pages, you can really get a sense that the area the city is trying to focus on is right where the Grand is, and a lot of improvements are wanted in that area. If you are reading through, you can see how they want bike paths right next to it, how the specific parking lots behind the Grand are areas they really want developed, how the street next to it they want to make two-ways. I mean everything in that layout screamed for this to be a perfect example of what they were looking for. If I recall also, there is a parking structure across the one way street from the Grand that could accomodate parking. Not to mention Grand Avenue Mall's parking. Just have the theatre be able to comp your ticket. I really wish I knew someone in Marcus and someone in the Mayors office so I could sit them down and get them to try and consider this. I really do think this would be a HUGE boon for the area.

That's pretty interesting, I hadn't read as in-depth into the plan as you have. That's good to hear they're considering all of those things.

Markitect = the voice of reason on these boards. I'd be happy if he/she posted and nobody else ever did again.

It's amazing to me how so many other people on here, people who have absolutely no background in civil engineering, urban planning or architecture make these outstandingly broad know-it-all comments on here about how "no-one will ride the train"... (really? no-one? you've done statistical studies and found that zero people will actually take the train? zero? really? do you understand what "no-one" means?) and how "the hoan is a necessary bridge and there would be traffic jams without it".... (seriously? do you think the urban planners who proposed removing the bridge and replacing it with an at-grade street haven't done ANY research whatsoever into traffic patterns? do you think they never once thought to consider how many drivers use the bridge daily, how traffic would be affected if it were changed to a ground level street? really? do you honestly think you know better than they do? really?)

these projects (the HSR and replacing the Hoan with an at-grade street) aren't political. they aren't about spending your money wildly and irresponsibly. they are projects that are researched by planners and engineers and others who KNOW what makes for good cities. they have spent years studying these projects. they have looked at far more variables and potential factors than you could ever imagine. they know what they're doing when they make recommendations for things like this. we're not the experts, THEY are. let them build our city. it's what they do.

The words of a civil engineer, regarding the hsr train,

“I think it’s a stupid idea,” says Yash Wadhwa, a civil engineer from Milwaukee. “It’s a complete waste of money. If we can get five people to ride that train we’ll be lucky. Nobody wants it except Jim Doyle and Tom Barrett.”

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/cheapskating-victory

I say we forget about the downtown mall for a few more years, and continue to focus on building upon our existing strengths. As the Brewery, the Third Ward, the Riverfront, Water Street, the Amtrak station and the Park East continue to develop they will slowly expand and force more traffic to pass through and around the mall helping to improve it. Right now the Mall has no strong anchors, so there is no reason for people to go into or even near it yet by building up all of these areas and improving them, they will also improve the mall since they are all so close together. After the Third Ward started improving, the development spilled over into the 5th Ward. A lot of the new development in the Park East is happening on its edges, and actually across the streets from the actual Park East. The best way to improve the mall is to let spillover from other areas around it force it to improve.

When did civil engineers become experts in economic development? I'll take his bet that no more than 5 people will ride it.

The words of a civil engineer, regarding the hsr train,

“I think it’s a stupid idea,” says Yash Wadhwa, a civil engineer from Milwaukee. “It’s a complete waste of money. If we can get five people to ride that train we’ll be lucky. Nobody wants it except Jim Doyle and Tom Barrett.”

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/cheapskating-victory

^ Hmmmm...here's what Wikipedia has to say:

"The Weekly Standard is an American neoconservative[1][2][3][4] opinion magazine[5] published 48 times per year."

^ In other words, "ignore everything this magazine has to say, at all times, for the rest of your life."

^^
Of course, shoot the messenger - but what about the message?

Mike

In other words, "ignore everything this magazine has to say, at all times, for the rest of your life."
Why?

Why?
:bash::bash::bash:
Well you should ignore just like any super super proliberal
magazine (mother jones)which like the super super proconservative magazine (may) will come up with a puppet of whoever happens to be
president that isnt of your party so you can take your frustrations out on because
the president isnt of your policitical persuasion.

Looking at that magazine is hilarious.
The obama doll with huge ears is hilarious.

Because its stupid to be just one thing.
How about a balanced view?
Some of what the Dems and Repubs do is ok,
but not everything they do is great, either side
Thats what turns me off
about politics, its just a fight for power and is
so fake otherwise. No one really wants to discuss
anything intelligently, its just a quick hey, lets discredit
so and so and make them look bad.
Its just too painfully obvious.

Because its stupid to be just one thing.
How about a balanced view?
Some of what the Dems and Repubs do is ok,
but not everything they do is great, either side
Thats what turns me off
about politics, its just a fight for power and is
so fake otherwise. No one really wants to discuss
anything intelligently, its just a quick hey, lets discredit
so and so and make them look bad.
Its just too painfully obvious.

:applause:

Here's a pretty insightful critique of MKE's parking structures, good and bad, from the latest Milwaukee Magazine:

http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/currentIssue/full_feature_story.asp?NewMessageID=25838

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/100149409.html

Riverwest group wants to create housing co-op
By Tom Kertscher of the Journal Sentinel

Aug. 6, 2010

Residents in Milwaukee's Riverwest neighborhood want to create a housing co-op out of a former strip club, hoping to create a diverse community that would share a kitchen, vehicles and a "high-intensity urban garden."

Peggy Hong, director of Yogashala, said she and her husband intend to buy the building at 700 E. Meinecke Ave. and then sell it to the co-op. If the city Board of Zoning Appeals approves the proposal, perhaps next month, it is hoped that residents could start moving in early next year, she said.

The main floor of the building would remain commercial space, likely for the yoga shop, with the second and third floors being residential - enough room for perhaps seven adults and some children. Hong said the building would need extensive renovation.

The words of a civil engineer, regarding the hsr train,

“I think it’s a stupid idea,” says Yash Wadhwa, a civil engineer from Milwaukee. “It’s a complete waste of money. If we can get five people to ride that train we’ll be lucky. Nobody wants it except Jim Doyle and Tom Barrett.”

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/cheapskating-victory

just like "scientists" who claim that global climate change isn't happening or that it has nothing to do with humans. right.
the fact is a vast majority of pundits in urban planning and civil engineering (those who actually conduct and follow the in-depth studies years in advance of these projects) agree that the train will have ridership that makes it worthwhile and will create catalytic development along its corridor. any so-called civil engineer that really believes only five people will ride this train ought to have his degree taken away.

Because its stupid to be just one thing.

What? Like being principled?

This is fun!:cheers:

I probably should point out I've never read an issue. I've never even picked one up. Not that I wouldn't.

Much of what you say is fine. I just don't like people labelling other people as being somehow ignorant or stupid because they disagree with someone else. Believe me, Ronald Reagan is my man and I have always been offended by the vitriol spouted in his name by his opponents. Just because you have a different opinion doesn't make someone else's opinion invalid or the person foolish.

Freedom of thought!

Okay, that's enough of that from me.

I just don't like people labelling other people as being somehow ignorant or stupid because they disagree with someone else. Believe me, Ronald Reagan is my man and I have always been offended by the vitriol spouted in his name by his opponents. Just because you have a different opinion doesn't make someone else's opinion invalid or the person foolish.

Freedom of thought!


Amen.

No, there's no reason to tear down the newer part of the mall. It's a very nice arcade. The mall needs a new identity. If TJ Maxx can get moved somewhere (the empty Posner building across the street maybe?) then the Plankington Arcade can get rebranded as an upscale mall (separate from the newer arcade), but this time around the shops need to open up to Wisconsin Ave as well. Also the newer arcade needs to be given a name. I think it might be best for the two arcades to retain separate management but remain connected, similar to Copley Place and Prudential Center in Boston.

Maybe the mall could be reconfigured with the food court areas lower to the ground instead of on the third floor? It's a really nice mall and it's a shame what it has turned into, but I really can't see it ever returning to former glory. I think it will have problems competing with Mayfair, Bayshore, and Brookfield Square----as well as the Third Ward for higher end retail. I wish they could get a major tennant to fill in like GameWorks or something like that, but I don't know who would take a risk (in this economy) on a dying shopping mall.

^^^^ @El Mariachi:

Just wondering have you seen the articles done in the Journal Sentinel lately about the fact that WE energies hasn't updated pollution controls at the valley plant thus making it one of the most polluting in the state...

Here's an editorial couldn't find the original article I am referencing...

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/99272829.html

Don't get me wrong industrial looks can be cool, but when this one is so close to the lakefront and downtown spewing pollution... my thoughts are Green it up or tear it down!

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/99910624.html

Here's another article.

Nope, I haven't read that (just did) but I agree that it should be modernized and cleaner. I really like how the building looks and how huge the smokestacks are. It sort of matches the colors on the Marquette Interchange too. I would have more of an objection to it if it was closer to downtown, but it's pretty far away from disturbing any views.

the problem I have with this train is that it is going to be for the wealthy, not the plebeians. The support for this from many people on the left is somewhat baffling because in no way is the average joe going to be using this. Some of the fares estimates are pretty steep in my opinion in comparison with taking a car.

On the flipside, I have been getting tired of some of these Republicans who go ballistic about anything train related now. I can understand people raising questions to this train line but this it's sad that they are now jumping on the proposed upgrades/redesign of the Milwaukee train shed. Listening to Jeff Wagner (who is a bit more reasonable than other radio hosts)/Scott Walker (who I am voting for) the other day, I was becoming increasingly bothered by comparisons of the new train shed to the Taj Mahal. For christsake, can we have anything nice in this city? Unless it's a road, sometimes I think these people would be happy with Milwaukee looking like a piece of s--t. And thats what the existing train shed looks like. The train station/Hiawatha line is widely used (500,000+ a year) and should be shown the same love as the airport would be. I believe most of this project is paid for by the Feds anyway. The way some describe this, you would think we are going to see Calatrava's Oriente Station in Lisbon. :lol:

Keep in mind that the train's sweet spot is for markets using the train to travel between 100 and 500 miles. The Milwaukee - Madison line will probably be used more to connect Madison to Chicago than it would be used for connecting Madison to Milwaukee.

I got a quote for a ticket from Madison's closest existing station (Columbus, WI) to Detroit for $62. Buying a plane ticket would cost at least twice as much, and driving would be more expensive too. Best of all, the existing ride takes about 10.5 hours (compared to driving time of 8 hours) so it is in fact very economical and appealing to the average Joe. The HSR will only shorten the time and increase travel scheduling flexibility. Sadly most people here don't even know of the existing station in Columbus or the service it provides the region. The downtown location will bring more visibility to this travel option.

that seems a bit low for the estimated fares I have seen for Madison to Milwaukee. It was like $30 each way at the lowest. Prices that high sort of make it a bit too steep for most people to make good use of it, especially families.

that seems a bit low for the estimated fares I have seen for Madison to Milwaukee. It was like $30 each way at the lowest. Prices that high sort of make it a bit too steep for most people to make good use of it, especially families.

$30 is the top end of the estimate that state officials gave out, when they were assuming the feds would kick in 80% of the funding, instead of the 100% that they have agreed to.

So, they haven't made newer estimates, but my guess is that MKE-MAD would be closer to $20.... very similar to the cost between MKE-CHI.

Moderne high-rise loan guarantee wins final OK, work to begin soon
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Aug. 27, 2010 1:10 p.m. |(15) Comments

The final approval for a federal loan guarantee to finance the planned downtown Moderne apartment high-rise has just been granted by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, an agency spokeswoman told me Friday afternoon.

That approval paves the way for developer Rick Barrett to begin building the Moderne, which will have 203 apartments and 14 condos at the southwest corner of W. Juneau Ave. and N. Old World 3rd St. It will be among the largest construction projects currently happening in the Milwaukee area.

HUD's local office granted preliminary approval last fall for the guarantee, which applies to a $41.4 million loan from the AFL-CIO Housing Investment Trust. The Common Council in November approved $9.3 million in city loans for the Moderne, which also will have at least $4.3 million in equity financing from Barrett and his partners.

Barrett had scheduled a February groundbreaking on the project.

But final approval was delayed largely because HUD nationwide is swamped by a huge increase in loan guarantee applications, Department of City Development officials told members of the council's Zoning, Neighborhoods and Development Committee in May.

That's occurring because banks and insurance companies have cut back on commercial real estate loans.

I'll have more information later at JSOnline.com, and in Saturday's Journal Sentinel.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/101661458.html

Tallest building in Wisconsin west of the Milwaukee River..

Wisconsin Tower and the Milwaukee Hilton are currently the #1 and #2 buildings in height west of the Milwaukee River. The Moderne will be the new #1 in height tower west of the river.

Moderne high-rise loan guarantee wins final OK, work to begin soon
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Aug. 27, 2010 1:10 p.m. |(15) Comments

The final approval for a federal loan guarantee to finance the planned downtown Moderne apartment high-rise has just been granted by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, an agency spokeswoman told me Friday afternoon.

That approval paves the way for developer Rick Barrett to begin building the Moderne, which will have 203 apartments and 14 condos at the southwest corner of W. Juneau Ave. and N. Old World 3rd St. It will be among the largest construction projects currently happening in the Milwaukee area.

HUD's local office granted preliminary approval last fall for the guarantee, which applies to a $41.4 million loan from the AFL-CIO Housing Investment Trust. The Common Council in November approved $9.3 million in city loans for the Moderne, which also will have at least $4.3 million in equity financing from Barrett and his partners.

Barrett had scheduled a February groundbreaking on the project.

But final approval was delayed largely because HUD nationwide is swamped by a huge increase in loan guarantee applications, Department of City Development officials told members of the council's Zoning, Neighborhoods and Development Committee in May.

That's occurring because banks and insurance companies have cut back on commercial real estate loans.

I'll have more information later at JSOnline.com, and in Saturday's Journal Sentinel.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/101661458.html


OMG!!!!

8 months late....but thank God it got approved!!! Now, hopefully the groundbreaking will take place in September and they can start building before it gets cold outside. I must admit I thought that the project might be dead after the billboard was removed last weekend.....happy I was wrong! :cheers:

Speaking of classy downtown development....okay, not really, but......

Get ready, Water Street, for Coyote Ugly!

Published Aug. 26, 2010 at 11:14 a.m.
Milwaukee's entertainment district is about to get coyote ugly. That's right, Coyote Ugly Saloon, the chain of now 11 bars that inspired the 2000 movie of the same name with Piper Perabo, Adam Barcia and Maria Bello, is coming to Water Street. The first Coyote Ugly Saloon opened its doors in New York on Jan. 27, 1993.

Last week, Brian C. Randall, an agent for a company doing business as Cuss Milwaukee, LLC applied for a liquor license for 1131 N. Water St. It's the building that originally housed Terrace Bar and most recently Tequila Rita's. The multi-level building features a roof top deck.

In a blog on coyoteuglysaloon.com, founder Liliana Lovell wrote this on March 18, "Just got back from Milwaukee. We found an awesome space there. It was St. Patrick's Day and the street was packed with people partying! Ca ching!!"

Ald. Jim Bohl, chair of the Licenses Committee, told me that the entity has had interest in the location and that "a couple reps from Coyote Ugly met with Ald. Bob Bauman around May and then stopped in to see me briefly."

Bohl didn't know the time-frame for opening and a staff person at the city said a hearing on the liquor has not yet been scheduled. Downtown Ald. Bauman also confirmed the Coyote Ugly application.

E-mails to the company have not been returned, but the application's agent, attorney Brian Randall from Friebert, Finerty & St. John, is putting me in contact with the company.

So, stay tuned as we get additional information. Once I hear more on the liquor license hearing and possible opening day, I'll post an update.

http://onmilwaukee.com/myOMC/authors/jeffsherman/coyoteuglycoming.html

$30 is the top end of the estimate that state officials gave out, when they were assuming the feds would kick in 80% of the funding, instead of the 100% that they have agreed to.

So, they haven't made newer estimates, but my guess is that MKE-MAD would be closer to $20.... very similar to the cost between MKE-CHI.

$20 wouldn't be bad, but I just don't see who is going to throw that sort of money around. Chicago makes alot of sense because of how terrible the traffic it is and how pricey parking is downtown. Not sure if it's the same in Milwaukee or Madison.

Speaking of classy downtown development....okay, not really, but......

Get ready, Water Street, for Coyote Ugly!

Published Aug. 26, 2010 at 11:14 a.m.
Milwaukee's entertainment district is about to get coyote ugly. That's right, Coyote Ugly Saloon, the chain of now 11 bars that inspired the 2000 movie of the same name with Piper Perabo, Adam Barcia and Maria Bello, is coming to Water Street. The first Coyote Ugly Saloon opened its doors in New York on Jan. 27, 1993.

Last week, Brian C. Randall, an agent for a company doing business as Cuss Milwaukee, LLC applied for a liquor license for 1131 N. Water St. It's the building that originally housed Terrace Bar and most recently Tequila Rita's. The multi-level building features a roof top deck.

In a blog on coyoteuglysaloon.com, founder Liliana Lovell wrote this on March 18, "Just got back from Milwaukee. We found an awesome space there. It was St. Patrick's Day and the street was packed with people partying! Ca ching!!"

Ald. Jim Bohl, chair of the Licenses Committee, told me that the entity has had interest in the location and that "a couple reps from Coyote Ugly met with Ald. Bob Bauman around May and then stopped in to see me briefly."

Bohl didn't know the time-frame for opening and a staff person at the city said a hearing on the liquor has not yet been scheduled. Downtown Ald. Bauman also confirmed the Coyote Ugly application.

E-mails to the company have not been returned, but the application's agent, attorney Brian Randall from Friebert, Finerty & St. John, is putting me in contact with the company.

So, stay tuned as we get additional information. Once I hear more on the liquor license hearing and possible opening day, I'll post an update.

http://onmilwaukee.com/myOMC/authors/jeffsherman/coyoteuglycoming.html


Yeah, I read about that. Milwaukee is doing pretty well for itself with this place, that Susan Sarandon high end ping pong club (which are only in huge cities), and the high end strip club that downtown Milwaukee desperately needs to make NBA players like the city. Too bad the resturant in Turners is closing though.

Oh, and great news about Moderne. :cheers:

$20 wouldn't be bad, but I just don't see who is going to throw that sort of money around. Chicago makes alot of sense because of how terrible the traffic it is and how pricey parking is downtown. Not sure if it's the same in Milwaukee or Madison.

I think Madison will benefit most by being connected to Chicago and beyond, while Milwaukee will benefit most by eventually being connected to Minneapolis. I'm not sure that the line would be used as much for travel between just the 2 cities it connects with the exception of possibly the college crowds from both cities visiting the other. (I used to take the Amtrak from Lafayette to Indianapolis as a college student, roughly the same distance apart as Milwaukee and Madison.)

And exciting news about the Moderne!

and the high end strip club that downtown Milwaukee desperately needs to make NBA players like the city.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Too bad the resturant in Turners is closing though.

When I heard this a couple days ago I couldn't believe it...Turner Hall is one of the essential parts of the historic German Milwaukee fabric...I hope it is immediately purchased and re-opened, and for the most part left-unchanged. In my opinion Turner is one of Milwaukee's more unique, interesting restaurants, and it's like stepping back in time going there. Any amount of time it stays closed is a big loss as far as I'm considered. It's a valuable piece of history.

1) Noticed the other day that the guys over at urbanmilwaukee.com gave up/sold their http://milwaukeestreetcar.com/ url to the city, so there is now a placeholder image there. Hopefully it is updated sooner rather than later with some real information. Milwaukeeconnector.com is still up and running.

2) The City has published an RFI for modern vehicles for the streetcar line, which can be viewed here:
http://www.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/Groups/cityDPW/general/docs/100823StreetcarRFI.pdf
The RFI has some important details that weren't entirely clear before, like the number of stop pairs along the initial route (12), and 8 additional stop pairs along the extension. In addition, the official goal for the "revenue service opening" date is "prior to November 2013". There are other details in there if you're interested in reading

Thanks for the streetcar update. After recently riding Portland's system, I'm really excited for this to happen. I can't stress enough how it changes the feel of a city. Let's hope things keep moving forward at an accelerated pace - the RFI seems to indicate that that's the desire.

Excellent. Finally some real information. The RFI went out on Tuesday and the proposals are due Sept. 24. The contract will be awarded next April and the delivery of the fleet is no later than July-Sept. 2013. That will give two years or so for six cars and related equipment to be built and the tracks and such installed.

I watched the Kenosha line construction and I seem to recall it took less than a year to place 1.7 miles of track. Granting that much of the line was installed on new streets and traffic issues were negligible, if they really wanted to they could have this running in 2012, but that probably won't happen.

It also looks like they are meaning to accelerate the extensions ASAP. Those extensions will really help vialbility. I wish they were shooting for North Ave. And Summerfest!

But it's great to finally have a real timeline. Thanks!

Thanks for the streetcar update. After recently riding Portland's system, I'm really excited for this to happen. I can't stress enough how it changes the feel of a city. Let's hope things keep moving forward at an accelerated pace - the RFI seems to indicate that that's the desire.

No doubt about it. I moved to Portland this past April and I can attest to the aesthetic qualities of a streetcar. They're incredibly neat and the convenience factor is ridiculously high. It's free within Zone 1 (most of downtown) so I ride it pretty much on a daily basis. That said, even the $1 fare in Milwaukee is unquestionably doable. It's $2 outside Zone 1 for us.

I absolutely love the streetcar! Go Milwaukee!!

$20 wouldn't be bad, but I just don't see who is going to throw that sort of money around. Chicago makes alot of sense because of how terrible the traffic it is and how pricey parking is downtown. Not sure if it's the same in Milwaukee or Madison.


I have traveled approx. 10 times a year (until last summer) between Madison and Milwaukee on the buses and they are about 17+ each way now. If the train had been there I would have taken it at least half the time depending on scheduling.

Also, my mother, living in Madison would love to take a train to Milwaukee as she is at the age where driving long distances and driving at night are just
not that feasible. I imagine there are plenty of people like her who are more restricted by the car than enabled by it. She'd almost certainly include Mitchell as a usable airport as she often takes a coach to O'Hare.

I think that most people who oppose alternate forms of transportation are those who are in that spot in their life where the car is absolutely necessary. They may not foresee the time when it is more of a nuisance. Not everything in this country should be centered around families with young children. Consider how long this phase really lasts in the majority's life span. It's about 16 years minimum and up to their youngest child's 16th. (16 being the age of the license and about the time they want nothing to do with their immediate family). There is life before and after child rearing and some people don't even do that.

Great point edod, there are way too many people out there with the mentality that "if it doesn't help me now, it's just useless."

Does anyone know (Markitect, or others) if the city applied for any Tiger II grants for things like bridges or the streetcar extension? I haven't been able to find any sort of published list of application summaries online (or even just a list of applicants). I'm not sure if there is one, but some communities have been publishing information about their applications in their local media. Anyone know if there is anything we should hope gets funding in South East Wisconsin?

The DCD applied for Tiger II grants for the streetcar extension (although SERTA did not apply for Tiger II on the KRM). I'm not sure about bridges or other infrastructure projects.

I think Madison will benefit most by being connected to Chicago and beyond, while Milwaukee will benefit most by eventually being connected to Minneapolis. I'm not sure that the line would be used as much for travel between just the 2 cities it connects with the exception of possibly the college crowds from both cities visiting the other. (I used to take the Amtrak from Lafayette to Indianapolis as a college student, roughly the same distance apart as Milwaukee and Madison.)

And exciting news about the Moderne!

I can see the benefits that it could bring being connected to Chicago and the Twin Cities, but I also can see some of the arguments. The one thing that I don't care for is the endless negativity from the anti-rail crowd. I always found it amusing in this country how we are ok with throwing billions of dollars around the globe and freak out when we spend our tax dollars on ourselves.

I have traveled approx. 10 times a year (until last summer) between Madison and Milwaukee on the buses and they are about 17+ each way now. If the train had been there I would have taken it at least half the time depending on scheduling.

Also, my mother, living in Madison would love to take a train to Milwaukee as she is at the age where driving long distances and driving at night are just
not that feasible. I imagine there are plenty of people like her who are more restricted by the car than enabled by it. She'd almost certainly include Mitchell as a usable airport as she often takes a coach to O'Hare.

I think that most people who oppose alternate forms of transportation are those who are in that spot in their life where the car is absolutely necessary. They may not foresee the time when it is more of a nuisance. Not everything in this country should be centered around families with young children. Consider how long this phase really lasts in the majority's life span. It's about 16 years minimum and up to their youngest child's 16th. (16 being the age of the license and about the time they want nothing to do with their immediate family). There is life before and after child rearing and some people don't even do that.

Sure, there are niche groups of people who would use it but thats what bothers alot of people. They feel that all this money is being poured into this project to benefit a few. The problem I have with this is that the speed of the train is so low and the costs so high that it really makes no sense at all to take this if you own a car. It also makes no sense to take if you are travelling with more than one person.

Don't get me wrong, I still support this but I think the way they are doing this is sort of questionable. They literally stabbed SuperSteel, a Milwaukee company, in the back to bed into bed with Talgo. It's hard to be optimistic about all this ontop of the train only going as fast as most people drive (for now). Had this been constructed to be a true high speed line, I think alot of people could have had pride in this and supported it. Personally, I would be more excited about lightrail in Milwaukee and Madison. This train fiasco might have damaged the possibilities of that even more, which is a shame. An even bigger shame is Milwaukie, Oregon will get lightrail before we will. :lol:

I really hope you're being sarcastic.



When I heard this a couple days ago I couldn't believe it...Turner Hall is one of the essential parts of the historic German Milwaukee fabric...I hope it is immediately purchased and re-opened, and for the most part left-unchanged. In my opinion Turner is one of Milwaukee's more unique, interesting restaurants, and it's like stepping back in time going there. Any amount of time it stays closed is a big loss as far as I'm considered. It's a valuable piece of history.

I am being sarcastic in some ways. :lol:

Milwaukee has somewhat of a bad rep with pro athletes and probally alot of that has to do with no high end stripclubs in downtown near their hotels. I actually think it's a good thing that they are building this downtown to add to the variety of the nightlife. There are stripclubs downtown, but they are a joke. Downtown Milwaukee completely lacks higher end strip joints unlike most major cities. I used to go to Silk alot a few years ago and there is nothing that remotely compares in this metro area aside from maybe On the Border (which is practically in the middle of nowhere). Having them build two spots in the downtown area is a good thing in my opinion.

It's a shame they are closing that resturant in Turners, but I guess somebody else is opening a new one right away. Everything was going to be good with the building, concert venue, gym so I wasn't too worried when I heard that.

Don't get me wrong, I still support this but I think the way they are doing this is sort of questionable. They literally stabbed SuperSteel, a Milwaukee company, in the back to bed into bed with Talgo.

No they didn't.

Since Super Steel does not design, make, or sell trains, there are no trains to buy from them. So the trains had to be bought from a company that actually has trains to sell. At best, Super Steel is a parts fabricator and assembly subcontractor hired out by companies that actually have products to sell.

So, no backstabbing.

After the announcement was made that the State was buying trains from Talgo, but before Talgo selected a site for its plant, Mayor Barrett and the DCD contacted Talgo to let them know about Super Steel. Talgo did indeed look over the Super Steel facility.

Why did they not go with it?

Two reasons: 1) Super Steel did not have the capacity that Talgo was looking for, and 2) Super Steel wanted to lease the facility to Talgo, whereas Talgo wanted to establish a facility for long-term growth.

So, no stabbed backs.

It was only after Talgo rejected the Super Steel site, that Mayor Barrett and the DCD suggested alternative sites in the city, like the AO Smith/Tower site (and that was still when Milwaukee was competing with sites in Janesville, Kenosha, and Appleton).

Talgo has been pretty vigilant about identifying subcontractors and parts suppliers here in the US (last I heard, they've found suppliers/subcontractors in 30 states), versus having most of the stuff produced overseas and merely shipped here for final assembly. The shells will be imported from Spain, but most of the train components will be made in the US. So the supply chain will span many companies, employing many workers, across many states. And that is good for the economy.

By the way, the Talgo plant opens in October.

Thanks for setting the record straight Markitect.

@Markitect Well said. I went to write that earlier and well... well said.

I was looking over the downtown development plan again and was thinking about more ideas about the 4th and Wisconsin lot site. Obviously on such a predominant lot a development with some character is needed and something that will actually draw people from downtown/Frontier Center/area hotels, etc.

Here's my thought, and I in no way claim to be an expert on who owns the lot or the viability of this idea ($)...

Why not divide the lot into two, and have the city buy the portion that is on the Hilton side of the lot. Then create an urban park with plenty of areas to sit. On the other side, a privately developed mixed use building with mostly restaurants/cafe on the 1st floor and either hotel/office on the 2nd - whatever. To create a space that is inviting for people from the conference center/Hilton/area offices to come out, grab some food and have the ability to choose to enjoy it in the park or just to take a break outside and enjoy the fresh air.

Obviously, winter wouldn't be as viable, but hey put some lights up and people are still going to want to take a stroll or enjoy a hot drink if it's not miserable out.

More good news for one of these projects....


Von Briesen considers relocation to Irgens or Weas projects
Published September 1, 2010 - Real Estate Weekly

1 of 13 | Next

Von Briesen & Roper S.C. is focusing its search for a new location for its headquarters on two proposed downtown Milwaukee office developments: one planned by a potential partnership of Irgens Development Partners LLC and Van Buren Management Inc. president Joel Lee, and the other planned by Weas Development, according to commercial real estate sources.
Von Briesen president and chief executive officer Randall Crocker could not be reached for comment.
The Irgens/Lee project would be built southeast of Mason Street and Jackson Street, across the street from the Pfister Hotel. The Weas project would be built southeast of North Broadway and Michigan Street, just north of I-794 and the Third Ward.
Those are the same two proposed downtown office building developments that Baker Tilly Virchow Krause LLP is evaluating as it considers plans to relocate its Milwaukee office, according to regional managing partner Kevin Heppner.
Von Briesen & Roper’s headquarters is currently located at 411 E. Wisconsin Ave. in downtown Milwaukee. Baker Tilly Virchow Krause’s Milwaukee office is currently located in the Honey Creek Corporate Center at 115 S. 84th St. on the city’s west side. Both Von Briesen and Baker Tilly would prefer to relocate their offices, according to commercial real estate sources. Baker Tilly’s lease expires in December of 2012 and Von Briesen’s current lease expires in June of 2013, according to sources.
A handful of other developers have proposed new downtown office buildings, but they are attracting little attention from potential anchor tenants, a commercial real estate source said.
Therefore, the Irgens/Lee project and the Weas project are essentially in a competition. Whichever project is able to attract two or more anchor tenants will have a chance to get built, and the other project either will not get built or will be delayed for a considerable amount of time. The capital markets for commercial real estate development remain tight so any developer will need to prelease a significant amount of space and provide a significant amount of equity to obtain financing for a project, commercial real estate sources say.
Another potential anchor tenant for a new downtown building is Godfrey & Kahn S.C., which plans to eventually relocate its headquarters. The firm would prefer to be involved with an Irgens development, according to commercial real estate sources. However, the firm has not yet made a commitment to the Irgens/Lee project, said Irgens executive vice president Jackie Walsh. In addition Irgens and Lee have not formally committed to a partnership for the development, but the partnership is a possibility, she said.
“We’re still looking at (the project) and seeing if it makes sense,” Walsh said. “I think everyone is waiting for us to say we have a real project. We’re juggling a lot of different entities. We just need some of these balls to land. I think we’re getting close.”
Doug Weas, president of Weas Development, could not be reached for comment.

http://www.biztimes.com/realestateweekly/2010/9/1/von-briesen-considers-relocation-to-irgens-or-weas-projects

Thankfully Milwaukee alderman vote to keep the badly needed Amtrack train shed upgrades on track. Anyone have renderings? I recall seeing some before, but forget where...

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/101987113.html

Here's my thought, and I in no way claim to be an expert on who owns the lot or the viability of this idea ($)...

Why not divide the lot into two, and have the city buy the portion that is on the Hilton side of the lot. Then create an urban park with plenty of areas to sit. On the other side, a privately developed mixed use building with mostly restaurants/cafe on the 1st floor and either hotel/office on the 2nd - whatever. To create a space that is inviting for people from the conference center/Hilton/area offices to come out, grab some food and have the ability to choose to enjoy it in the park or just to take a break outside and enjoy the fresh air.

Obviously, winter wouldn't be as viable, but hey put some lights up and people are still going to want to take a stroll or enjoy a hot drink if it's not miserable out.

I dig it, or how about splitting the parcel in half diagonally, and the building being curved with the center of the building in on the southwest corner of the lot and curving out towards the park? As long as we're throwing ideas out there :)

Here's one. I've seen others.
http://assets.bizjournals.com/story_image/1263721-600-0-1.jpg

MilwaukeeStreetcar.com is up and running. I haven't yet noticed anything we didn't know before, but it does seem to have a slightly better interface than the old milwaukeeconnector.com website. The connector website has been updated to direct people to the new one.

Thanks Eriol. Now that's a train shed befitting of a major city. Should be a nice compliment to the new Intermodal. I hope the outdoor covered bus stalls are getting a face lift along with the new train enclosure.

No they didn't.

Since Super Steel does not design, make, or sell trains, there are no trains to buy from them. So the trains had to be bought from a company that actually has trains to sell. At best, Super Steel is a parts fabricator and assembly subcontractor hired out by companies that actually have products to sell.

So, no backstabbing.

After the announcement was made that the State was buying trains from Talgo, but before Talgo selected a site for its plant, Mayor Barrett and the DCD contacted Talgo to let them know about Super Steel. Talgo did indeed look over the Super Steel facility.

Why did they not go with it?

Two reasons: 1) Super Steel did not have the capacity that Talgo was looking for, and 2) Super Steel wanted to lease the facility to Talgo, whereas Talgo wanted to establish a facility for long-term growth.

So, no stabbed backs.

It was only after Talgo rejected the Super Steel site, that Mayor Barrett and the DCD suggested alternative sites in the city, like the AO Smith/Tower site (and that was still when Milwaukee was competing with sites in Janesville, Kenosha, and Appleton).

Talgo has been pretty vigilant about identifying subcontractors and parts suppliers here in the US (last I heard, they've found suppliers/subcontractors in 30 states), versus having most of the stuff produced overseas and merely shipped here for final assembly. The shells will be imported from Spain, but most of the train components will be made in the US. So the supply chain will span many companies, employing many workers, across many states. And that is good for the economy.

By the way, the Talgo plant opens in October.

maybe saying they literally stabbed them in the back was a bit too strong, but I do think they sort of let them down. I know that they are only a subcontractor but the Japanese companies (Nippon Sharyo) that it works with were not even allowed to bid. On top of that, the quick turn around of Doyle's trip to Spain and the Talgo deal raises a few eyebrows. Not to mention the missing Talgo documents or some of the comments made from other train companies like Alstrom. I'm happy that Talgo is building here, but this whole plan seems a little underwhelming. I realize that the distance isn't great enough to warrant spending billions on Maglev or anything, but faster service would probally make people a bit more optimistic about this project.

strip club set back:
Westown group debates, votes to oppose downtown gentlemen's club
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Sept. 2, 2010 10:52 a.m. |(41) Comments

A tavern license application to open a downtown "gentlemen's club," featuring nude dancers, is being opposed by the Westown Association, under a resolution passed by the group's board Thursday.

The board voted 7-3, with two abstentions, to approve the resolution. Westown is a non-profit group which represents property owners, business operators and residents on downtown's west side.

Some group members said the planned club, Silk East, which would operate at 730 N. Old World Third St., just north of W. Wisconsin Ave., would hurt efforts to recruit businesses for nearby empty retail and office space.

"Perception is everything," said Todd Rizzo, of Wispark LLC, the development subsidiary of Wisconsin Energy Corp. Rizzo said Wispark has invested around $50 million in nearby buildings over the past five years, a portfolio that includes the Boston Store building adjacent to the Shops of Grand Avenue.

"We just know it's not going to help," said Joe Weirick, representing RAIT Financial Trust, owner of Reuss Federal Plaza. "It will probably hurt us."

Others, however, said they would prefer Silk East instead of having the space remain vacant. They cited a lack of trouble at Silk, a similar club, at 11400 W. Silver Spring Drive, that's been operated by Jon Ferraro and his partners for seven years.

Ferraro and his attorney, Michael Whitcomb, told Westown members that Silk's owners would spend $1 million to $1.5 million to remodel the proposed space, formerly home to Martini Mike's.

Martini Mike's closed in May after a fight led to a fatal shooting. Those opposing the Westown resolution said another problem tavern could resurface at that location if the Common Council denied a tavern license to Ferraro's group.

"What do you think is going to be there? A candle store?" said Michael Kleber, of Towne Investments Inc., which operates several downtown office buildings.

(Michael Mervis, spokesman for Towne Investments just notified me that Kleber was speaking for himself, and not for Towne Investments, which is opposed to the Silk East plan.)

Silk East would have a cover charge of $15 to $20, and would be targeted as an upscale club for business professionals entertaining clients, and people attending conventions at the nearby Frontier Airlines Center, Whitcomb said.

Ferraro and his partners want to open another club, Satin, at 813 S. 1st St., in Walker's Point, which would be targeted to larger groups, such as bachelor parties, and a younger crowd. Satin would have 20,000 square feet, compared to 7,000 square feet at Silk East.

The Common Council's Licenses Committee is to review the tavern license application for Silk East at a Sept. 20 meeting.

I'll have more later at JSOnline.com, and in Friday's Journal Sentinel.

Thanks Eriol. Now that's a train shed befitting of a major city. Should be a nice compliment to the new Intermodal. I hope the outdoor covered bus stalls are getting a face lift along with the new train enclosure.

agreed. I think this is a fitting shed for a train station as widely used as the Intermodal Station is. Seeing this called the "train Taj Mahal" is laughable.


edit---you beat me to the punch posting that article usbmfa!

Does anybody else beside me think that people are acting a bit silly in regards to this strip club proposal? It's an upscale club, not the bar in the movie Roadhouse. And in this economy, they are going to turn down two developments that would fill vacant properties and bring people to downtown? That quote from the guy from Towne Investments is spot on. What do they really think is going to be built in this ugly nook of downtown? They can't even draw major tennants to high profile Wisconsin Ave. and the Grand Ave. but they are fretting about this? These people think this part of town should be run like it's the Third Ward or something. I was listening to Belling on this earlier and a few limo/cab drivers called up talking about how many visitors there are who seek out these establishments downtown. Milwaukee is one of the few major cities that doesn't have them and I think that looks bad.

^ A lack of good titty bars is exactly why I don't even bother visiting Milwaukee....

j/k :lol:

Sure, there are niche groups of people who would use it but thats what bothers alot of people. They feel that all this money is being poured into this project to benefit a few. The problem I have with this is that the speed of the train is so low and the costs so high that it really makes no sense at all to take this if you own a car. It also makes no sense to take if you are travelling with more than one person.

My point was that people without children are not a "niche group." I think there is a kind of obsession of thinking about families as the only group to be serviced in this country. If you have a family and you are paying for all of them, yes a train (and any other form of paid transport) is going to be too expensive. But not everyone has a family or is in that stage of their life. And people in families do travel alone on occasion. One parent takes a form of mass transit so the family car can stay with the other and the kids (not all families can afford two cars). This kind of Mass Transit option will serve the many in many ways.

Silk East would be walking distance from the train station too.

Zoning panel rejects sports complex proposed for vacant industrial building
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Sept. 3, 2010 7:00 a.m. |(15) Comments

A proposal to convert a vacant industrial building in Milwaukee's Riverwest area into a sports complex has been rejected by the city Board of Zoning Appeals.

Courthouse Sports Complex was to be in a 116,000-square-foot building, at 301 E. Vienna Ave., which housed Production Stamping Corp. before it closed in 2007. Courthouse would have included separate areas for football, soccer, basketball, volleyball and tennis, mainly for youth sports events.

The development needed a special use permit from the board because the building, owned by a Chicago-area investment group, is zoned for light industrial use.

Eleven nearby industrial and distribution businesses objected, saying traffic from Courthouse would interfere with truck traffic making deliveries and pick-ups at the nearby businesses. The Department of City Development also objected, saying Courthouse would be an incompatible use for the industrial area.

Those objections were cited by board members Thursday, who voted 4-0 to reject a special use permit for Courthouse.

"This project is a really nice project," said board member Donald Jackson. "But...there is a sense that the people who work in that particular neighborhood are totally against it."

Other board members agreed, praising the plan but saying it was a bad fit for the area.

Addi Hayes, a construction trades worker, is leading the $750,000 effort to develop the sports complex. He said after the board's ruling that the concerns were overstated, and that his offers to meet with the objecting businesses were rebuffed.

Hayes said Courthouse would have included a 166-space parking lot, as well as street parking on three sides of the building. He said most of the sports events would be on weekends or after 3 p.m. on week days, when there's less truck traffic generated by the nearby businesses.

The Department of Public Works said Courthouse would not have a significant adverse traffic impact on the neighborhood.

Also, Hayes said the block where Courthouse wanted to locate includes non-industrial uses, including an auto repair shop, two taverns, a U.S. Postal Service station, a Milwaukee Fire Department station, and a gas station. With 360 businesses in the Riverworks Redevelopment Corp. area, Hayes said the 11 objectors had an inordinate amount of influence on the zoning board.

Hayes said he'll start looking for another location for Courthouse.

"Hopefully, it's in the city of Milwaukee," he said.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/102094628.html

_____________________________________________________

Sometimes it just makes me want to puke how unprogressive some of our "leaders" are in this city.

Hey everyone! I am a long time reader and former Milwaukee native who has vicariously lived through this blog in order stay in tune with the happenings of the city I love! I decided to become a contributor rather than sitting on the sidelines.

A couple of tidbits not shared in recent weeks...

Good read on The Tannery's revival here (http://www.biztimes.com/news/2010/9/3/real-estate-aurora-hq-could-spur-tannery-turnaround)

http://www.biztimes.com/nf/uploads/Image/BTM%2009|03|10%20Upload/RE-The_Tannery%281%29.jpg

Good news on Turner's!

(I actually had my wedding reception there, so I am a little bias towards it's beauty)

Turner Hall will get new restaurant
By Doris Hajewski of the Journal Sentinel

Aug. 27, 2010 |(19) Comments

Turner Hall is in advance negotiations with a local restaurant operator who will replace R.C. Schmidt's current operation, which closes Sept. 4.

Art Heitzer, president of the Milwaukee Turners, the organization that owns the building, said he expects to have a deal with the new tenant soon. Once the deal is signed, it will take a few months before the new restaurant opens. The Turners will make structural repairs to the building after the Schmidt restaurant closes, Heitzer said.

Meanwhile, all existing entertainment and athletic programs continue in the historic building, on N. 4th St. across from the Bradley Center.

I reported on the Turner Hall restaurant closing in an earlier post this week.

Hi MadeinMilwaukee! What a grewat photo! I've never seen that view before. Sure shows some land with a lot of potential.

I sure hope the economy turns around again someday.

Yesterday, the two one hundred year old smokestacks that towered over the Menominee Valley came tumbling down :goodnight

http://www.fuzzyworld3.com/3um/download/file.php?id=4975&sid=4316c8a7043e07384f00ecbbac8f7c32&mode=view

http://www.wisn.com/video/24886493/detail.html

^^^God, that is painful.

I always thought preserving them was goofy.
There's no shortage of large smokestacks still in town, and the notion that they somehow memorialized the city's industrial heritage just seemed like a cheap substitute for having a genuine museum of manufacturing.

I always thought preserving them was goofy.
There's no shortage of large smokestacks still in town, and the notion that they somehow memorialized the city's industrial heritage just seemed like a cheap substitute for having a genuine museum of manufacturing.

Are you crazy! The smokestacks made it one of the best urban parks in our city.

I always thought preserving them was goofy.
There's no shortage of large smokestacks still in town, and the notion that they somehow memorialized the city's industrial heritage just seemed like a cheap substitute for having a genuine museum of manufacturing.

I kind of agree with looksee on this. While I am all for historic preservation and developing a intersection between historic and modern, the fact remained that these particular smokestacks were costing the city some tax money to year to maintain. The city had already paid around $380,000 to Spray-O-Bond. But the additional, long-term maintenance costs would have been substantial, Marcoux said. Source (Journal Sentinal, July 21st)
While it would have been great to keep them, I don't think that would have been the most fiscally responsible move on the city's part. Although beyond replacing falling bricks, I don't see why this would be so expensive. Anyways, there gone now so hopefully their footprint will be put to good use.

In other news...Not really development, but another way to get Milwaukee on the map! I thought this was interesting

http://www.onmilwaukee.com/images/articles/gr/greatfoodtruckrace/greatfoodtruckrace_story1.jpg

Milwaukee Trying to get into Food Networks Great Food Truck Race (http://www.onmilwaukee.com/myOMC/authors/julielawrence/greatfoodtruckrace.html)

Milwaukee's late-night pizza food truck, Streetza, has quickly risen in the ranks as one of our favorite local street food vendors, but apparently, Milwaukeeans aren't the only ones who've come to recognize Scott Baitinger and Steve Mai's made slice skills.

If you're on Twitter, then you probably already know that Streetza has recently been nominated to be on The Food Network's "The Great Food Truck Race Season 2."

Co-owner Baitinger is thrilled, but isn't underestimating the efforts of the other 271 food trucks who've also been nominated.

He realizes that yes, if Streetza's going to make it on TV, he's going to have to earn it. And if you love the Walker's Point slice as much as we do (special "salsa-like" pizza sauce, chorizo sausage, onions, peppers, mozzarella and cheddar cheese, and tortilla chips from Botanas) then all you have to do is vote for them.

Here's how: Text FT66 to 66789 or vote online (scroll to Milwaukee, and click on Streetza.) Every time someone votes, they are also entered to win a trip to NYC for the Food & Wine Festival.

hey good to see another contributer/poster!
nice articles made in milwaukee.....




heres an article about a couple
who had a cool house built in riverwest

http://www.jsonline.com/features/homeandgarden/101767853.html

hey good to see another contributer/poster!
nice articles made in milwaukee.....




heres an article about a couple
who had a cool house built in riverwest

http://www.jsonline.com/features/homeandgarden/101767853.html

I'm fairly sure I've delivered pizza to them once or twice! It is indeed a nice, efficient corner-home. If only I could remember what corner!!

By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Sept. 7, 2010 7:00 a.m.

Developer Afshin Ghazi, who in 2007 proposed a mixed-use, entertainment-oriented downtown Milwaukee development, has run into big financial trouble with a similar project in Charlotte, N.C.

Ghazi's Milwaukee proposal, which he called Catalyst, included a hotel, a residential component and several nightclubs and restaurants. It was planned for a parking lot at W. Wisconsin Ave. and N. 4th St., near the Frontier Airlines Center, but was officially declared dead in July 2009.

Now, Ghazi's EpiCentre complex, in downtown Charlotte, is mired in foreclosure and bankruptcy proceedings, according to a recent article at CharlotteObserver.com.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/102075748.html

wow

Are you crazy! The smokestacks made it one of the best urban parks in our city.
Guess there really is no accounting for taste.
Glad the teetering eyesores are gone.

I'm fairly sure I've delivered pizza to them once or twice! It is indeed a nice, efficient corner-home. If only I could remember what corner!!

its not fratney and wright is it?

Are you crazy! The smokestacks made it one of the best urban parks in our city.

I know they couldn't continue to pour thousands into the smokestacks, but they were really cool. They were such a focal point and a very unique and truley historic addition to the area.

They'll be missed, but I'm glad the city took a chance on these... lesser cities would dismiss them outright, sometimes people/places will never miss great things because they never had them to begin with... I'm glad Milwaukee doesn't share that fate.

I know they couldn't continue to pour thousands into the smokestacks, but they were really cool. They were such a focal point and a very unique and truley historic addition to the area.

They'll be missed, but I'm glad the city took a chance on these... lesser cities would dismiss them outright, sometimes people/places will never miss great things because they never had them to begin with... I'm glad Milwaukee doesn't share that fate.

right, because two giant symbols of industrial waste and environmental pollution are something we should be proud of...

right, because two giant symbols of industrial waste and environmental pollution are something we should be proud of...

Yes, that's exactly what they stood for... they could never be a reminder of the past. They could never tie together what came before and gave people a strong visual cue to contemplate that the valley wasn't always this nice industrial park with a free-flowing stream running through it... bookended by Miller Park and a world-class museum for a product made in Milwaukee... known near and far.

No, it couldn't be that, it could only celebrate industrial waste and environmental pollution. I have realized the error in my ways, Lord Max.

right, because two giant symbols of industrial waste and environmental pollution are something we should be proud of...

I wouldnt look at the smoke stacks like that.
It was just a step in the necessary chain of human economic evolution.
The builders didnt say, well this is will be an awesome pollution machine.
It was just the most prudent thing to build to produce energy or whatever product was on site. I dont think its something to be ashamed of.
Ofcourse Im sure there were things that could have mitigated the pollution, but ofcourse economics is what really drove the smoke stacks.
I wonder what couldve been done to make things more environmentally friendly in the industrial age and to stay competitive. Interesting to contemplate.
They worked, did their job and were too expensive to maintain as a
cool old reminder of our past. Thats all.

The smokestacks outlived their usefulness and were way too expensive to maintain just as cool things to look at. Otherwise they would have been fixed up and continued to spew smoke and function as they were supposed to.

Im bummed that there really arent any cool watertowers ontop of buildings.
There is one that was save for that development by water street and pleasant? But thats about it. Watertowers arent as expensive to maintain.

its not fratney and wright is it?

It is at the corner of Fratney and Wright. That I can confirm : )

http://www.jsonline.com/features/homeandgarden/101767853.html

http://www.jsonline.com/multimedia/photos/101846738.html

right, because two giant symbols of industrial waste and environmental pollution are something we should be proud of...

:soapbox:

If you are proud of Milwaukee then you have to appreciate what makes this city what it is today. Our city was an industrial powerhouse and those smokestacks represented a lot more then the factory and power plants that once filled the valley. Those smokestacks represented the lives of the Milwaukeeans who toiled to make a better life for themselves. It wasn't just their job, it was their sacrafice for their families, the hard working culture that we once had, the dedication to get up every day and put in a strong days work that few are willing to do anymore.

The people who worked in the valley helped make Milwaukee and those people deserve more then just a monument in their honor, they deserve the respect of everyone who enjoys what our city is today.

Also, lest you forget, the industrial revolution from which these industrial cities were bourn created a far more secure, safe, and longer life for most of the modern world. The industrial revolution, and even today, are just stepping stones to a better, brighter, quality future for everyone.


OK, rant over! :)

Wooooooo well said!

Meh, they were ugly. I appreciate their historical value and respect what they may have represented, but for a city trying to reinvent itself, giant smokestacks next to downtown doesn't hold much visual appeal.

I really liked those smokestacks and it's a shame they had to be torn down. The price to maintain them is pretty high so I can understand why they had to do it. It would have been cool to light them up, grow ivy on them or do something along those lines, but I guess those ideas are---------up in smoke.

Meh, they were ugly. I appreciate their historical value and respect what they may have represented, but for a city trying to reinvent itself, giant smokestacks next to downtown doesn't hold much visual appeal.

I respect your opinion, but don't you feel truly unique and iconic cities try to reinvent themselves while at the same time paying homage to what they were built on. This is the reason why we erect statues in public places. Yes, "Happy Days" was aired in the distant past, but that is what made Milwaukee known, which is why we have a bronze Fonz cemented on our riverwalk. Like or not, industry built Milwaukee and I thought it was cool to have the smoke "statues" standing as a reminder of where we came from surrounded by a new contemporary office park. It just gave a different feel than what the office park now provides. New York has the Statue of Liberty, San Fran has the Golden Gate Bridge, and we had smokestacks. Take each of those things out of the picture and you are left with a city that is like any other. Obviously, this is an exaggeration, but the point is, these are the little things that make a city unique!

Rant over, ready for bashing. :bash:

If I had them smokestacks in my city, I would want the city to preserve them. Looking at the numerous pics of them, they did seem to make the park that they stood upon something more than just a park. Was there any special lighting that lit up the smokestacks during the night? I think having some type of lighting system would had made the smokestacks something both day and night.

New York has the Statue of Liberty, San Fran has the Golden Gate Bridge, and we had smokestacks. Take each of those things out of the picture and you are left with a city that is like any other. Obviously, this is an exaggeration, but the point is, these are the little things that make a city unique!

The lakefront, Pier Wisconsin, Milwaukee Art Museum, the Riverwalk, the 3rd Ward, Brady Street, Wolski's and the Polonia that surrounds it, the North Avenue Water Tower, all the great lift bridges spanning the Milwaukee River at diagonals, Juneau Park Lagoon, Veterans Memorial Park, the Kite Festivals, Summerfest, Old World 3rd Street, the future Park East, Mitchell Park Domes, Pabst Brewery grounds, etc. There is a nearly endless list of things that make Milwaukee unique and smokestacks are at the very bottom of said list. Exaggeration or not, I can't even begin to comprehend how you could compare these smoke-carrying brick monoliths to the Golden Gate Bridge or the Statue of Liberty... lol!

I can't believe you people are upset over this "loss." Good riddance! I mean really. Really?

I'd rather not have smokestacks for a park, but I'm not worked up either way.

But it would have been badass if they could have hung a giant inflatable pig between them. I suppose Pink Floyd and Roger Waters would have wanted something for that, though.

There's always the WEPCO Valley Plant (WE Energies, whatever) for now. I can't say I wouldn't be happy to see that go too.

The lakefront, Pier Wisconsin, Milwaukee Art Museum, the Riverwalk, the 3rd Ward, Brady Street, Wolski's and the Polonia that surrounds it, the North Avenue Water Tower, all the great lift bridges spanning the Milwaukee River at diagonals, Juneau Park Lagoon, Veterans Memorial Park, the Kite Festivals, Summerfest, Old World 3rd Street, the future Park East, Mitchell Park Domes, Pabst Brewery grounds, etc. There is a nearly endless list of things that make Milwaukee unique and smokestacks are at the very bottom of said list. Exaggeration or not, I can't even begin to comprehend how you could compare these smoke-carrying brick monoliths to the Golden Gate Bridge or the Statue of Liberty... lol!

I can't believe you people are upset over this "loss." Good riddance! I mean really. Really?

I agree, grouping the smokestacks with the Golden Gate Bridge and Statue of Liberty isn't a great comparison. But money and maintenance aside I would always vote for preserving the stacks.

Seattle's Gasworks Park is a great example of how a city preserved some of it's industrial history and incorporated it in a great urban space!

http://www.seattlephotographs.com/photos/gasworks_park/Gasworks_Park_photo_gallery.htm

New York has the Statue of Liberty, San Fran has the Golden Gate Bridge, and we had smokestacks. Take each of those things out of the picture and you are left with a city that is like any other. Obviously, this is an exaggeration, but the point is, these are the little things that make a city unique!

I guess I wasn't clear in stating that my point was an exaggeration, but of course they are not comparisons of the same scale. I was merely using a hyperbole to emphasize the point that these little things make a city interesting. All of the examples cited above are things that really do make Milwaukee iconic and I am glad we have salvaged properties like the Pabst Brewery. I think we can all agree that the smokestacks being gone are not the end of the world, but I will miss their nostalgia. Call me crazy! :nuts:

The lakefront, Pier Wisconsin, Milwaukee Art Museum, the Riverwalk, the 3rd Ward, Brady Street, Wolski's and the Polonia that surrounds it, the North Avenue Water Tower, all the great lift bridges spanning the Milwaukee River at diagonals, Juneau Park Lagoon, Veterans Memorial Park, the Kite Festivals, Summerfest, Old World 3rd Street, the future Park East, Mitchell Park Domes, Pabst Brewery grounds, etc. There is a nearly endless list of things that make Milwaukee unique and smokestacks are at the very bottom of said list. Exaggeration or not, I can't even begin to comprehend how you could compare these smoke-carrying brick monoliths to the Golden Gate Bridge or the Statue of Liberty... lol!

I can't believe you people are upset over this "loss." Good riddance! I mean really. Really?

Mark, are you okay? You used to be one of the greatest boosters of Milwaukee's icons. Your photographs have inspired many to take another look at our fair city.

A lot of hard work went into making that park. It was quickly becoming one of the surreal and pastoral places in Milwaukee. You'd have to walk through the park to understand, but those smokestacks were awe-inspiring.

Will Milwaukee crumble into ruin now that these chimney's are gone? Of course not. But that park just took a big hit, and the park that's left (while still very nice) is something less special.

So take a deep breath and relax.

Oh, I'm just fine. It's hard to portray jest in an online forum... I'm not actually upset about this, I just think it's silly. I'm sad that the park isn't what it once was. I'm also sad that I didn't get a chance to walk through it while the stacks were still standing.

I still wholeheartedly support Milwaukee in all its greatness. You need not worry about that, friend. One day I will return to live in your beautiful city and my once-stronger passion will return in full.

CH2M Hill to stay on far west side, won't be moving downtown
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel

Sept. 9, 2010 9:21 a.m. |(0) Comments

Engineering firm CH2M Hill is about to renew its lease at Honey Creek Corporate Center, on Milwaukee's far west side--eliminating a major prospective office tenant for the downtown market.

I just spoke with Marilyn Herzberg, a senior property manager at Greywolf Partners Inc., which manages Honey Creek, an office park west of S. 84th St. and just north of I-94. She's hoping to have the lease signed, and officially announced, by Friday.

"That sounds right," said Allan Erickson, Milwaukee-area manager for CH2M Hill.

"We hope to stay put, and if our lease is signed, we hope to make a formal announcement," Erickson said Thursday morning. He declined further comment.

The firm has been at Honey Creek for several years. Erickson said earlier this year that CH2M Hill was considering a move to downtown, and the firm was pursued as major tenant for a new downtown office building.

The firm is planning to lease around 29,000 square feet at Honey Creek, Herzberg told me. That's a bit less than what it currently leases at the office park, she said,

The CH2M Hill lease alone would not have been large enough for a developer to obtain a construction loan to build a new downtown office tower. But, it would have been a big help when combined with a larger anchor tenant.

So, the bottom line: this is not a fatal blow to building a new downtown office tower. But it does make that task more difficult.

Possible anchor tenants for a new downtown building include two law firms now based downtown: von Briesen & Roper and Godfrey & Kahn. Both are considering a move from their existing offices, at the Marshall & Ilsley Corp. headquarters and the 411 East Wisconsin Center, respectively.

Another prospective anchor tenant is accounting firm Baker Tilly, now based at Honey Creek.

_____________________________________________________

Unfortunate, but I'm hoping there's still enough interest from the other prospective tenants listed that we'll still see another office tower in downtown in the next few years.

I wrote an email in support of those stacks a long time ago. It is a terrible shame they're gone, but seeing the price tag of maintaining two purely aesthetic structures, I guess I have to accept it. Which might lead me to the Hoan bridge...same queasiness.

The state Department of Transportation today announced $37.5 million in federal Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality (CMAQ) grants for southeastern Wisconsin transportation projects.
The grants include $6.4 million for the proposed Milwaukee County bus rapid transit system, $9 million for the proposed Kenosha Racine Milwaukee (KRM) commuter rail line and $4.2 million for a 3.4-mile expansion of the Kenosha streetcar line.
Last year, Congress agreed to split $91.5 million in unused federal funds that had been set aside for transportation in Milwaukee, allocating $54.9 million to the city for the downtown streetcar project and $36.6 million to Milwaukee County to create bus rapid transit service. The $6.4 million CMAQ grant will provide funding for a 12-mile long bus rapid transit line, which will operate along West Fond du Lac Avenue southeast into downtown Milwaukee and then southwest via National Avenue and Greenfield Avenue. The bus rapid transit line will have 56 new bus stations with real-time passenger information systems and signal prioritization. For the system, 18 low floor, 60-foot vehicles will be purchased.
The last biennial state budget, signed by Doyle, included a provision to authorize a car rental tax of up to $18 per rental in Milwaukee, Racine and Kenosha counties to fund the KRM. The South Eastern Regional Transit Authority (SERTA) board has yet to implement the full rental car tax rate for the KRM. SERTA plans to seek additional federal funds for the KRM project, which is expected to cost about $200 million to establish.
The 3.4-mile expansion of the Kenosha streetcar line will add on to the current 2-mile electric streetcar system operated by the city of Kenosha.
The CMAQ grants also include $880,000 to install detection equipment, controllers and emitters for a transit priority system at 100 signalized intersections in Milwaukee for the downtown streetcar project and the bus rapid transit system.

http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2010/9/9/state-doles-out-375-million-in-federal-funds-for-transportation-projects-in-region

The Good...

Five Hearts Opens in Third Ward (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/102537839.html)

The new boutique owned by Mary Jo and Kelly Mansell, wife and daughter of Kohl's Corp. chairman Kevin Mansell, opened last week at 153 N. Milwaukee St. The store is at the corner of Milwaukee and Menomonee Sts., next to Kafevino.

Five Hearts is named for the Mansells' five daughters. Kelly has a retailing degree and is running the store. Clothing prices are mid range, topping out under $200. Styles are contemporary, aimed at women from age 30 to 50.


The Bad...

Harley to drop plans for office development at museum; seeks city OK (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/102547424.html)


Harley-Davidson Inc. is negotiating a deal with city officials that would allow the motorcycle maker to back out of its plan to develop an office building near its Menomonee Valley museum.

If approved by the Common Council, Harley would not be obligated to build one or more commercial buildings, totaling 100,000 square feet, on land it owns west of S. 6th St., near the museum.

Harley, in 2004, agreed to develop those buildings, along with the museum, with the city providing up to $7 million in financing. The museum opened in 2008, but the company is now seeking to drop the office development plan, according to a source familiar with the negotiations.

"There have been some discussions in an effort to reach a revised agreement that makes sense for both the city and Harley," said Jeff Fleming, Department of City Development spokesman. He said more details may be available later Thursday or Friday.

A Harley spokesman couldn't be immediately reached for comment.

Harley has been cutting costs as it struggles with declining demand. The company also is seeking new contracts with its union workers that would cut jobs in the Milwaukee area, and at its Tomahawk facility.

An ordinance that would change the development agreement between the city and Harley has been introduced by Ald. Jim Witkowiak, whose district includes the museum.

The ordinance doesn't yet have any information that is publicly available, and Witkowiak couldn't be reached for comment.

The Ugly

Downtown condo market hits bottom; sales slowest for largest units (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/102480449.html)

Sale prices for condos in the downtown Milwaukee area are "very close" to the bottom, and actually may have hit bottom, says Garry Benson, of Chicago-based consulting firm Garrison Partners.

Benson also says the largest units, of 2,000 square feet and up, remain the hardest to sell in and around downtown.

He made his remarks during Wednesday's Milwaukee Condominium Summit, sponsored by Wells Fargo, Garrison Partners, Fiduciary Real Estate Development Inc., Mandel Group Inc. and the Journal Sentinel. The conference featured several speakers, and drew around 200 people--mostly Realtors--to the Italian Community Center.

Benson said there were 364 units sold in the downtown area during the 12-month period that ended in July. That compares to a 771 units sold during the market's peak year, of 2006, he said.

Around 85% of the unit sales over the past year were for condos priced below $350,000, said Benson, whose firm's projects include Lake Bluff condos, 1300 N. Prospect Ave.

But, sales are a lot slower for higher-end units. Benson said it will likely take three years for buyers to purchase all the unsold downtown units that are priced at $600,000 and up.

Hitting bottom isn't necessarily negative. It means it's pretty much stabilized and isn't going down anymore. Sure, we'd like to see sales grow again but this is still a good sign in theory.

Milwaukee considers North End loan

Money key for development of $38 million project

The Business Journal of Milwaukee - by Sean Ryan

Mandel Group Inc. is negotiating with city of Milwaukee officials to obtain a loan for a planned $38 million apartment project that could be jump-started for next spring as the second phase of the high-profile North End development.

“We’re hopeful that the project may be able to get off the ground,” said Rocky Marcoux, Milwaukee Department of City Development commissioner. “We are open to do a loan on that right now and that is the subject of negotiation.”

The development, which includes 155 apartments at 1551 N. Water St., is the third and final downtown housing project Marcoux said DCD officials would consider supporting with a loan, which is a departure from the normal city policy of not helping private residential projects. But the current economic downturn has stopped most new residential development in downtown Milwaukee.

Richard Lincoln, senior vice president of Milwaukee-based Mandel Group, which has built several downtown residential projects, said he is trying to work out a loan with DCD for the project.

“I don’t want to say anything more,” Lincoln said.

The project would include two six-story buildings along the Milwaukee River, a parking structure and construction of public streets through the North End site, Lincoln said. He said the plan is to break ground in spring 2011, with construction estimated to take up to 18 months.

Marcoux said city officials will only consider a loan for the project and not other types of public support.

“We don’t put incentives or subsidy into downtown residential,” Marcoux said. “That is something we have never done.”

Milwaukee Ald. Nik Kovac, who represents the district that includes North End, said he will consider the loan only because of the difficulty developers are having getting private loans in the current economic downturn.

“This is not a subsidy,” he said. “It’s a loan, and we are the bank of last resort.”

The city in the past two years has broken from a long-standing policy of not giving public support to downtown housing projects, said Mike Daun, deputy city comptroller. The North End’s second phase, along with the Moderne and Bookends projects, are the three downtown apartments city officials said they would consider supporting with loans.

City officials approved a $9.3 million loan for the Moderne project at the southwest corner of North Old World Third Street and West Juneau Avenue in November 2009 and considered a $3.45 million loan guarantee to the Bookends project at 700 E. Kilbourn Ave. Aldermen never approved the Bookends loan because developers New Land Enterprises and Wiechmann Enterprises did not secure a separate loan guarantee from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.

Daun said he is not involved with the negotiations over the North End loan. Past discussions over the apartment loans have focused on how city officials can ensure funds will be recovered in the event something goes wrong with a project, he said. The developers of the Moderne had to offer their personal finances to the city as security on the loan.

“It’s obviously an uncertain market at this point,” Daun said. “Plus, the city getting into new policy makes it a pretty tough sell for a developer.”
Other financing

In addition to the city loan, Lincoln said Mandel Group has applied for state approval for tax-exempt Midwestern Disaster Area Bonds to pay for the North End development. The bonds require that 20 percent of apartments have rent levels that are affordable to people making 60 percent or less than the county median income level.

Lincoln said Mandel also has private investors interested in financing a portion of the project, but would not name them.

He said there is plenty of demand in the downtown apartment market to ensure the building will have tenants, adding that all 83 apartments in the first phase of the North End are leased.

Lincoln noted that other downtown Milwaukee apartment projects, such as the Moderne, which is to break ground later this year, are pursuing an older demographic of tenants.

“Our occupancies generally are quite good downtown,” Lincoln said. “We think the first and second phases of the North End are aimed at a little bit of a different market segment, primarily young singles.”

Young, single professionals also are the primary tenants renting apartments in the Latitude building at 1857 E. Kenilworth Place in Milwaukee, said Sarah Lovy, Latitude property manager for developer Dermond Property Investments LLC, Milwaukee. The building opened in August and 30 percent of its 90 apartments are occupied, she said, which is faster than the developers anticipated.

It is difficult to predict what the market will be doing more than two years from now when Mandel anticipates completing its project, but the market should continue to grow, said Wayne Wiertzema, executive vice president of Wangard Partners Inc., Wauwatosa. Wangard is to break ground later this year on a 68-unit apartment at 1910 N. Water St. that will open in fall 2011, he said.

“We’re very confident there’s a demand in the market for what we’re doing,” he said.

Lovy said that, if the city supports construction of a new downtown apartment building, it is not likely to harm other apartments already in the area because of the solid demand for units.

Kovac said he will reserve judgment on a North End loan until Mandel Group and DCD present a deal for city aldermen to consider. He said he will approach the proposal with the same caution he used on the Moderne.

“The Moderne was worth considering, and at the time I decided that was worth the risk,” he said. “I’m certainly not writing anybody a blank check.”

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2010/09/13/story1.html?b=1284350400^3926251


I like the "bank of last resort" remark. It is all a cycle, when condos aren't doing well, apartments come back. When condos start to make a comeback, apartments will slip a little.

http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2010/9/9/state-doles-out-375-million-in-federal-funds-for-transportation-projects-in-region

Anyone know if the actual plan of the Fondy-National "BRT" project is online someplace? I mean the actual detailed plan of the project, not the powerpoint Walker put out about "BRT" a few years ago. MCTS apparently helped prepare something, but I can't find it anywhere...

Anyone know if the actual plan of the Fondy-National "BRT" project is online someplace? I mean the actual detailed plan of the project, not the powerpoint Walker put out about "BRT" a few years ago. MCTS apparently helped prepare something, but I can't find it anywhere...

http://www.sewrpc.org/SearchResults.htm?Search_Keywords=Bus%20Rapid%20Transit (http://www.sewrpc.org/SearchResults.htm?Search_Keywords=Bus%20Rapid%20Transit)

Click on the first link called "Summary Brochure: Fondy-National Bus Rapid Transit" once you get to the site linked above. Other than that, I think Walker's powerpoint is the most in depth "plan" available.

http://www.sewrpc.org/SearchResults.htm?Search_Keywords=Bus%20Rapid%20Transit (http://www.sewrpc.org/SearchResults.htm?Search_Keywords=Bus%20Rapid%20Transit)

Click on the first link called "Summary Brochure: Fondy-National Bus Rapid Transit" once you get to the site linked above. Other than that, I think Walker's powerpoint is the most in depth "plan" available.

Hmm...I really like this plan actually. BRT is the right mode for those two corridors. Does anybody know which street it's taking though downtown? It looks like 2nd to me.

Hmm...I really like this plan actually. BRT is the right mode for those two corridors. Does anybody know which street it's taking though downtown? It looks like 2nd to me.

That would be correct. In the pdf I linked earlier it says that the BRT would closely follow Route 18/23 which is would make it 2nd street coming from the south or Fond Du Lac Ave from the Northwest into Downtown.

Hmm... I guess it's time to try and email the county, then. I'm pretty sure the Feds don't give out $6.4 million for fancy powerpoints.

The $880,000 for Signal Priority measures is actually pretty exciting, too, even though it doesn't sound like it. 100 intersections is a lot, and could make a pretty big difference in MCTS's ability to run on time. Plus, it's a pretty big symbolic change for a city that hasn't made any serious changes to the transit system since the 70's...

Hmm... I guess it's time to try and email the county, then. I'm pretty sure the Feds don't give out $6.4 million for fancy powerpoints.

:lol: Very true. Wasn't that figure actually higher since Barret compromised on the split of the 91.5 million stalled federal dollars between the streetcar line and Walkers buses? I think after they split that money, the county received 25 million dollars. Is this why they finally added some new buses to the fleet? Is the BRT plan actually going forward with enough secured funding or are they still waiting for a dedicated income source like an RTA?

:lol: Very true. Wasn't that figure actually higher since Barret compromised on the split of the 91.5 million stalled federal dollars between the streetcar line and Walkers buses? I think after they split that money, the county received 25 million dollars. Is this why they finally added some new buses to the fleet? Is the BRT plan actually going forward with enough secured funding or are they still waiting for a dedicated income source like an RTA?

The county received $36.6 million from that split, and that is what is being used for the BRT, as well as the CMAQ grant just received. The county has to provide some matching funds to receive the $36.6 million from the feds, so my understanding is that the CMAQ grant will go towards that match (not sure how this works, but that's my understanding from the county committee meetings). I'm not sure if they need to budget more to install the line, or if they will begin design and order the fleet soon.

The new buses came from a combination of stimulus funds and county bonding in this years budget. There will be an additional 35 buses (in addition to the 90 that will be delivered in 2010) delivered next year with more bonding money. I've been out of town since mid-August for grad school, so I'm not sure if this has happened yet or not, but the county also received stimulus funds to change the fare system for the buses. They are switching to tap cards and magnetic strip tickets for frequent users. You will still be able to pay fare directly on board, but paying with cash will result in no transfer. If you pay with a card or ticket, the transfer will be stored on the card/ticket.

My understanding that the new fare boxes would be installed late summer or early fall, but I'm not certain if that is actually occurring.

Details can be found on pages 50-55 of the county's 2010 capital budget

http://milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/User/bpariseau/2010AdptedCaptl/2010_Adopted_Capital_Budget_with_Page_Numbers.pdf

TIGER II grants are awarded tomorrow (Weds)-- everybody keep your fingers crossed that the Milwaukee Streetcar project gets its extension proposal funded...

also, I posted this in the Midwest HSR forum, but I want this information to be well known...
In this week'sBusiness Journal (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2010/09/13/focus1.html) (you'll need a subscription to read the full article), the DOT points out that the federal government will
most likely follow "its existing policy and pay for 90 percent of the
operating costs. The remaining $750,000 would come from the Wisconsin
transportation fund, which in 2009 dedicated $2.1 billion to road
projects".

How is it that anti-rail people dare get away with claiming that the state cannot afford $750,000 a year on a rail line when they spend $2.1 billion a year on roads?

I know it but I don't wanna say it...

Any word on the TIGER II grant awards? I can't keep my fingers crossed any longer.

Urban renewal
See 4 iconic cities in a new light with these out-of-the-ordinary breaks, perfect for fall
By DAVID LANDSEL
Last Updated: 6:43 PM, September 13, 2010

MILWAUKEE GETS HIP
People have been writing about Milwaukee 2.0 for a long time now, but only recently has the city that’s perhaps known best for people that didn’t exist — Laverne, Shirley, The Fonz — ambled out of the 1980s and into the 21st century. Don’t get us wrong, there’s always been plenty to like about the city. For instance, it’s got one of the most handsome downtowns in the country (German craftsmanship at its finest), beautiful, big, affordable homes, a lovely lakefront and a lot of beer, some of it quite drinkable. But hip? Never. That’s changed. These days, Milwaukee feels like it’s finally back in the game, innovating and restoring and renewing and just damn fun to spend time with. Check it out sometime soon, even if you only spend a day up here the next time you’re in Chicago, which is just an hour-and-a-half to the south. Totally worth it...

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/lifestyle/travel/urban_renewal_oNyGUwEH1IbwqsXK9sfZ3J#ixzz0zcJPEvaC

Any word on the TIGER II grant awards? I can't keep my fingers crossed any longer.


i'm not sure-- i haven't heard anything yet, although i was expecting to hear an announcement today from the DOT. they may delay their announcement by a few days, but hopefully they make one today still.

where did you hear that they will be announced today? I believe it will be in October.

The USDOT said that TIGER II announcements would be made "no sooner than September 15, 2010." (http://www.dot.gov/recovery/ost/tigerii/)

That also means the announcement may come sometime after September 15, 2010.

You have an impeccable knack for deciphering, Markitect. :)

right, but with the pace a lot of projects are being moved forward with due to the potential changes after elections, I thought they'd actually announce them on the 15th.

De Bruin wants county to redevelop O'Donnell Park, Transit Center
By Steve Schultze of the Journal Sentinel
Sept. 16, 2010 1:26 p.m. |(44) COMMENTS

Milwaukee County should seek proposals to redevelop both the damaged O'Donnell Park and the neighboring county Transit Center sites adjacent to the lakefront, county Supervisor Lynne De Bruin said Thursday.

The problems with the O'Donnell structure present an opportunity for the county to be the catalyst for a major change at one of the most valuable sites in the area, she said.

"It's just prime county real estate," she said in an interview.

She suggested the site would have high value for condominiums, entertainment outlets, offices or some combination of the three. A sale or long-term lease of the two sites could bring in "many millions" of dollars for the county, De Bruin said.

It would make sense for the county to at least consider a third option for O'Donnell, other than repairing it or tearing it down, she said.

County Executive Scott Walker said he was open to the idea. He'll issue a request for proposals on redeveloping the downtown sites if the County Board favors exploring the idea, Walker said in an e-mail.

The fate of the O'Donnell Park complex has become complicated since the June 24 fatal accident there in which a concrete slab fell from the O'Donnell garage wall, killing 15-year-old Jared Kellner of Greenfield and injuring two others.

Engineering reports released last week recommended removing all 70 concrete panels like the one that fell from the structure, at a cost of some $3.5 million, as well as doing nearly $2 million in unrelated maintenance. The reports also suggested a second alternative of demolishing all or part of O'Donnell, for up to $6 million.

O'Donnell Park cost about $35 million to build. The park includes the parking garage; the two-story Pavilion housing the Betty Brinn Children's Museum and Coast restaurant; and a park area overlooking Lake Michigan. It opened in 1991.

Walker earlier backed the O'Donnell repair plan and has also said he'd be open to considering demolition.

De Bruin's broader idea of redeveloping both the O'Donnell and Transit Center sites has not been publicly discussed and she said was not prompted by any developers. The Transit Center cost $10.3 million and opened in 1992. It includes a large meeting room and serves as a bus hub.

De Bruin said the Transit Center had been underused and easily could be relocated.

The Transit Center had its own, lesser problem with precast concrete panels. A countywide inspection of county buildings this summer prompted by the O'Donnell accident found five panels on the Transit Center had shifted several inches from where they were anchored at the top of the building. A $60,000 temporary repair to bolster those connections was done last month.

She said if the county agrees to seek developer proposals for the sites, the county could require construction of a new parking garage and new quarters for the Betty Brinn Children's Museum and restaurant at O'Donnell. The county also could put height restrictions on new development to prevent obstructing the lake view from downtown and insist on replacing the lost park area from O'Donnell elsewhere, if the site is redeveloped, De Bruin said.

Proceeds from the sale or long-term lease of the O'Donnell and Transit Center sites should go toward addressing the county's structural deficit rather than for a one-time budget fix, she said.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/103070389.html


Interesting possibilities. I would definitely like to see the transit center moved closer to the Intermodal Station, and having that parcel redeveloped would be a good thing. Fits nicely with the City's proposed Downtown Plan as well.

De Bruin wants county to redevelop O'Donnell Park, Transit Center
By Steve Schultze of the Journal Sentinel
Sept. 16, 2010 1:26 p.m. |(44) COMMENTS


The problems with the O'Donnell structure present an opportunity for the county to be the catalyst for a major change at one of the most valuable sites in the area, she said.

"It's just prime county real estate," she said in an interview.

She suggested the site would have high value for condominiums, entertainment outlets, offices or some combination of the three. A sale or long-term lease of the two sites could bring in "many millions" of dollars for the county, De Bruin said.

I think this is a great idea. Especially since the county is spending so much time helping to develop the prime real estate they control in the Park East area. "Could" and "will" are too very distinct words. :wallbash:

De Bruin wants county to redevelop O'Donnell Park, Transit Center
By Steve Schultze of the Journal Sentinel
Sept. 16, 2010 1:26 p.m. |(44) COMMENTS

Milwaukee County should seek proposals to redevelop both the damaged O'Donnell Park and the neighboring county Transit Center sites adjacent to the lakefront, county Supervisor Lynne De Bruin said Thursday.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/103070389.html


Interesting possibilities. I would definitely like to see the transit center moved closer to the Intermodal Station, and having that parcel redeveloped would be a good thing. Fits nicely with the City's proposed Downtown Plan as well.

I don't understand this fascination people have with moving the transit center to the train station. It's basically a bus turnaround/break room and was built where it was for a good reason, which is that it is where all of the bus lines on Wisconsin naturally end. Moving it would likely either inconvienence thousands of commuters (who realistically wouldn't gain anything by being closer to the train) or increase congestion and the costs of running bus service since they'll all have to back-track down St. Paul or Michigan.

Who owns the land underneath 794? Could one of those blocks be rebuilt into a bus turnaround/waiting room?

The O'Donnell rethink is very interesting in concept. If the City was smart, they'd propose an architectural design competition to generate viable and visionary design solutions. This site is much too valuable to give over to profit-driven developers. What an opportunity to connect downtown to the lakefront in much more engaging way.

The valuable properties are exactly the ones you would generally want in the hands of profit-driven developers because those properties are the most likely to get successfully developed. And since it's so highly prized the city would have leverage to make sure it is something that would improve the area.

I think the O'Donnell land is owned by the County, just might be more land that they will sit on for 10 years doing nothing until someone decides to pay a ridiculous asking price like $30 million, that's what Walker said... Sell it cheaper than market value and get a better end product I say.

I think the O'Donnell land is owned by the County, just might more land that they will site on for 10 years doing nothing until someone decides to pay a ridiculous asking price like $30 million, that's what Walker said... Sell it cheaper than market value and get a better end product I say.


I feel you miltown on being dumb-founded on the County's apparent nonchalant attitude toward development.....UNTIL I READ THIS today


Walker picks former Doyle high-speed rail planner for key county post (http://links.urbanmilwaukee.com/walker-picks-former-doyle-high-speed-rail-planner-for-key-county-post)

Published Sept. 17, 2010 at 2:34 p.m.

In July, I wrote a blog about developers in the private sector complaining that Milwaukee County government had failed to fill its long-vacant position of director of economic development.

County government has played virtually no role in the attraction of economic development and jobs in recent years.

The county also has been the slowest among the local government players at the table to embrace the aerotropolis concept of development around General Mitchell International Airport. The county-owned land in the former Park East Corridor still stands vacant.

By contrast, the City of Milwaukee government has been the driving force in bringing companies and jobs to the Menomonee Valley, the 30th Street corridor, the former Tower Automotive site and other developments, including the Manpower Inc. headquarters in Downtown Milwaukee.

Meanwhile, the county's economic development director position has been vacant since October of 2008, when the county's previous director of economic and community development, Robert Dennik, left the job to become a vice president for Pewaukee-based VJS Construction Services.

County Supervisor Johnny Thomas blamed the length of the vacancy and the lack of economic development vision on Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker. Thomas Nardelli, Walker's chief of staff, said the length of the vacancy is the county board's fault.

Regardless, here's the update. BizTimes learned today that Walker has appointed Damon Dorsey as the interim director of economic development for Milwaukee County and is seeking approval from the Milwaukee County Board to permanently hire Dorsey for the post.


No wonder they've done nothing!

^^

So lets see. MKE is one of the fastest growing airports in the USA. Who owns MKE?? Yet park east is still empty. Who owns park east?? Clearly the success of MKE belongs to anyone other than Walker, but the failure of activity in park east belongs solely to Walker. Oh yeah, its probably also Walkers fault that is Odonnell is a piece of crap. And of course to top it off, Barrett gets credit for every job to come to Milwaukee and Walker is to blame for every job that leaves Milwaukee, over their terms.

Is there anyone out there who can actually think beyond R and D????

^^

So lets see. MKE is one of the fastest growing airports in the USA. Who owns MKE?? Yet park east is still empty. Who owns park east?? Clearly the success of MKE belongs to anyone other than Walker, but the failure of activity in park east belongs solely to Walker. Oh yeah, its probably also Walkers fault that is Odonnell is a piece of crap. And of course to top it off, Barrett gets credit for every job to come to Milwaukee and Walker is to blame for every job that leaves Milwaukee, over their terms.

Is there anyone out there who can actually think beyond R and D????

Well I think the city and Barrett's administration should get credit for doing something. (versus doing nothing) True we could just say, "No" to subsidizing companies' investments in our city (i.e. Manpower, etc.) but what has Walker's alternative (saying "no" to everything) produced in places like the Park East. (the answer is nothing) I don't want this to be political because I think that wastes time, but I think the bigger point is that Walker let a critical county position unfilled for a year in half! Why do you feel you need to defend Walker? I actually think you are correct in your statement that other things are happening in spite of Walker, and nothing is happening in the Park East at least partially due to the fact that there is no real direction being taken or given because of Walker's or the County Soups failure to fill a vital position.

The Business Journal of Milwaukee

Milwaukee County will request proposals to redevelop or lease the O’Donnell Park parking structure property under a plan backed by Lee Holloway, Milwaukee County Board chairman.

Holloway on Friday told County Board staff members to draft a request for proposals for the O’Donnell structure and nearby Downtown Transit Center. The full County Board in October will consider whether to send out the request for proposals.

The request would ask developers for offers to purchase or lease the properties, and give county officials more information on which to base a decision to repair or demolish the O’Donnell park structure, according to Holloway’s memo to County Board staff members.

An analysis of the O’Donnell structure recommended county officials consider three options for the building, which has structural problems and was not built according to the original plans. It would cost $5.4 million to remove the exterior panels from the building that were not properly fastened to the building structure. The county could spend $6 million demolishing portions of the building but preserving the pavilion that houses the Betty Brinn Children's Museum and Coast restaurant. Or the county could spend $3.9 million to demolish the entire structure.


Read more: Holloway wants development proposals for O’Donnell - The Business Journal of Milwaukee

http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2010/09/20/daily5.html

Personally, I hope it gets completely demolished and they start over from scratch. I'm confident that more than a few developers will come up with a great new plan for the location, the question will be how much do they want to spend and if there will be significant restrictions on what to include/exclude. The list goes on about what could go there, but I definitely think it needs to be something that the public can enjoy. It would be the perfect location for another signature museum, in addition to the Children's Museum. I would love to see the Milwaukee Public Museum move there if it was possible, and in doing so create a large-scale aquarium. Chicago already has Shedd, but I feel we should have our own signature aquarium in trying to become a leader in freshwater studies. What are your thoughts?

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2010/09/20/daily9.html

The Choo-choo Train will create 13,000 jobs.

I'm ready to believe of course, but I wonder if these reports can be easily had over the internet. I'd like to see how they come to such numbers.

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2010/09/20/daily9.html

The Choo-choo Train will create 13,000 jobs.

I'm ready to believe of course, but I wonder if these reports can be easily had over the internet. I'd like to see how they come to such numbers.
What do you mean by the words 'Choo-choo'?

:?

Mike

Chicago already has Shedd, but I feel we should have our own signature aquarium in trying to become a leader in freshwater studies. What are your thoughts?

Already have it...aquariums and freshwater ed programs at Discovery World/Pier Wisconsin.

Already have it...aquariums and freshwater ed programs at Discovery World/Pier Wisconsin.
I think that's a bit of a stretch. Not to belittle the exhibit, but it is far too modest (nor does it claim to be, other than as part of larger project) to be called a signature aquarium comparable to any of the majors around the country.

An important public building certainly doesn't seem like a bad idea for the site, magical funding source willing.
How about a new Central Library? (and expanding the Public Museum by joining it back with its old quarters. Anyone who remembers that echoey and majestic setting of the past knows what would be regained by such a connection.)

Already have it...aquariums and freshwater ed programs at Discovery World/Pier Wisconsin.

I'm aware, I'm talking about a facility that is just an aquarium, large-scale.

No offense meant to anyone, but I don't think a large scale aquarium is something that should be focused on. There is already a great one not even 90 miles away, why try to duplicate that?

I see Pier Wisconsin as complementing, not really competing... anyway, I think the parking structure should remain. I don't trust the county to redevelop it successfully, just spend the money to stabilize the current structure... it will pay for itself in parking fees.

The county has more pressing issues to work on than this, I fear this is just a diversion, drawing public attention away from more pressing county needs.

Where is our dedicated transit funding? Where is a new/renovated mental health building? Where is a separate parks district with funding? What is the county doing to help Mitchell continue its growth? How is the county funding its retiree benefits? How is the county holding down property tax increases & providing services better?

These are the questions that our supervisors and lame duck county executive are trying to avoid.

No offense meant to anyone, but I don't think a large scale aquarium is something that should be focused on. There is already a great one not even 90 miles away, why try to duplicate that?

I see Pier Wisconsin as complementing, not really competing... anyway, I think the parking structure should remain. I don't trust the county to redevelop it successfully, just spend the money to stabilize the current structure... it will pay for itself in parking fees.

The county has more pressing issues to work on than this, I fear this is just a diversion, drawing public attention away from more pressing county needs.

Where is our dedicated transit funding? Where is a new/renovated mental health building? Where is a separate parks district with funding? What is the county doing to help Mitchell continue its growth? How is the county funding its retiree benefits? How is the county holding down property tax increases & providing services better?

These are the questions that our supervisors and lame duck county executive are trying to avoid.

Amen!

Well I think the city and Barrett's administration should get credit for doing something. (versus doing nothing) True we could just say, "No" to subsidizing companies' investments in our city (i.e. Manpower, etc.) but what has Walker's alternative (saying "no" to everything) produced in places like the Park East. (the answer is nothing) I don't want this to be political because I think that wastes time, but I think the bigger point is that Walker let a critical county position unfilled for a year in half! Why do you feel you need to defend Walker? I actually think you are correct in your statement that other things are happening in spite of Walker, and nothing is happening in the Park East at least partially due to the fact that there is no real direction being taken or given because of Walker's or the County Soups failure to fill a vital position.

The original quote from the article was what i was really responding to. Everyone here knows that park east has seen development during the walker years. The aloft, the mandel development, and msoe kern center to name to a few. Plus there is a marcus proposal and another proposal for the block next to points east. There was also the failed palomar project. To imply nothing happened is park east is a complete lie. Also, in case it was missed by the author, the national economy was nuked in 2008 by the subprime blowup. During walker years, mke added new parking garage and remodeled at least two concourses in last couple years. The fact that the article was completely biased was my entire point.

Lets also ask whether barrett actually created new jobs or just poached jobs from other parts of the city (metro). Its hard to not notice the giant empty manpower buiding on i43. How about palermos and badger rail, etc. Are these new jobs in the valley or jobs just moved to new faciltiies to be closer to highway and labor. Lastly, it took tax credits from the state and union concessions to keep harley, and miller was also almost driven out of town by higher water costs. By the way, when exactly did barrett stop mmsd sewer dumps. Must have happened after all those floods this summer.

Crap flows both ways (literally) in this election year.

I know its convient to find a scape goat, but the problems are milwaukee involve government failures at all levels, from fed, state, county, to city.

@usbmfa "Everyone here knows that park east has seen development during the walker years. The aloft, the mandel development, and msoe kern center to name to a few. "

Ummm none of that has been on County land or involved the County. There has been no development at all in the County owned land in the Park East, wheres City land has been developed, the FlatIron. Further, the other projects mentioned involved City of Milwaukee assistance. NOTE: TIFs for public improvements for Aloft and the North End.

"Lets also ask whether barrett actually created new jobs or just poached jobs from other parts of the city (metro)." Helios, Ingeteam, and Talgo, to name a couple worked with the City to open in Milwaukee, no poaching from the metro involved.

@usbmfa "Everyone here knows that park east has seen development during the walker years. The aloft, the mandel development, and msoe kern center to name to a few. "

Ummm none of that has been on County land or involved the County. There has been no development at all in the County owned land in the Park East, wheres City land has been developed, the FlatIron. Further, the other projects mentioned involved City of Milwaukee assistance. NOTE: TIFs for public improvements for Aloft and the North End.

"Lets also ask whether barrett actually created new jobs or just poached jobs from other parts of the city (metro)." Helios, Ingeteam, and Talgo, to name a couple worked with the City to open in Milwaukee, no poaching from the metro involved.

Twoaday took the words right out of my mouth, so no need to beat a dead horse. In addition, the "poaching" may have kept the jobs in the Milwaukee metro versus letting them leave.

@usbmfa "Everyone here knows that park east has seen development during the walker years. The aloft, the mandel development, and msoe kern center to name to a few. "

Ummm none of that has been on County land or involved the County. There has been no development at all in the County owned land in the Park East, wheres City land has been developed, the FlatIron. Further, the other projects mentioned involved City of Milwaukee assistance. NOTE: TIFs for public improvements for Aloft and the North End.

"Lets also ask whether barrett actually created new jobs or just poached jobs from other parts of the city (metro)." Helios, Ingeteam, and Talgo, to name a couple worked with the City to open in Milwaukee, no poaching from the metro involved.

Helios - solar panels - fed credits
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/blog/2010/06/helios_usa_signing_lease.html

Ingeteam - wind turbines - fed credits
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2010/02/15/daily1.html

Talgo - train - fed credits (by the detroit will not let the nations rail cars be built in WI and they have enough union guys to make sure they get that business, if it ever actually develops)
http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2010/03/01/daily14.html

See a theme there. Not exactly barrett's brilliance that brought in the jobs, but political payback for WI delivering the presidency to BO.

As for park east, i was considering the entire area, not just county land. If its just county land, then i believe we are talking about the massive parcels. In the last thirty years, how many times have parcels several blocks big been developed. Just does not happen in Milwaukee (unless you like juneau village and all the old folks homes by msoe) Lastly, what does the county need an economic development person for any way. Most of its facilties are parks, jails, misc government, etc. The airport seems to be doing fine. Its not like its its the county's job to be developing land. If the city wants to get in to that business, then why would the county not just use the city's economic advisor to handle the few pieces of land the county has to develop. Seems more efficient. Also, its not like if someone proposed a viable project on one of the massive park east sites, that walker say no.

@usbmfa Yes those deals involved the government bringing in business, and in each case it was the City of Milwaukee that got those deals done (do some more googling you'll see the city's involvement).

"As for park east, i was considering the entire area, not just county land. If its just county land, then i believe we are talking about the massive parcels."

Yes again the Aloft, the North End are in the development area, but not formerly in the footprint of the Park East, which is the land the County owns. And again these projects moved forward with the assistance of the City of Milwaukee. And yes one of the problems in the Park East is that the County (for the properties that they have actually listed so far), is that they need to sell the lots in smaller sizes. Yes the County needs to do that.

"Its not like its its the county's job to be developing land. If the city wants to get in to that business, then why would the county not just use the city's economic advisor to handle the few pieces of land the county has to develop. Seems more efficient. "

Well as the property owner it is the County's job, but yes the City of Milwaukee should be handling the Park East, as the County has shown no ability to get the job done. Unfortunately the County won't go for it, even though the City of Milwaukee has approached the County about this more than once, and yes letting the city handle the Park East would be much more efficient, but again the County has said no.

I seem to recall that a county board in the pre-Walker days put so many 'social justice' related development restrictions on the Park East ROW that developers were avoiding it in droves.

:ohno:

Mike

@mgk920 Not one of the failed Park East projects failed due to the PERC regulations. Further, again City assisted projects have moved forward with similar requirements imposed on them as these projects have utilized TIF (the North End had various EBE, RPP and training requirements for example). And really because of lot size, and therefore lot costs just about every Park East proposal (RSC & Ruvin) on County land has then turned to the City for assistance which would come with similar requirements anyhow (TIFs come with strings). So again the much of the issue has actually been what @usbmfa pointed out, and those are County issues i.e lot size, and let the City handle the development/land sales as well.

I seem to recall that a county board in the pre-Walker days put so many 'social justice' related development restrictions on the Park East ROW that developers were avoiding it in droves.

:ohno:

Mike

Nope, those regulations (the Park East Redevelopment Compact--prevailing wages for construction workers, preference to affordable housing, using local workers, job training programs, etc.) were enacted in 2005, when Walker had already been County Executive for a few years by then. Although he opposed the measure, he was unable to break the veto-proof majority on the County Board.

The bottom line, though, is that ALL of County government has mishandled Park East redevelopment efforts--the board and the executive.

Remember when Walker wanted to only lease land to developers, in stead of selling it to them? That was a terrible idea, because developers don't want to lease, they want to own. It took a few months for Walker to wise up to that before he changed his position.

Lastly, what does the county need an economic development person for any way. Most of its facilties are parks, jails, misc government, etc. The airport seems to be doing fine. Its not like its its the county's job to be developing land.

Why does the County need an economic development person?

Perhaps to develop the County's economy??? To encourage businesses and companies to locate here so residents can have jobs so they can make a living??? So that these activities can take place on land the County happens to own that aren't parks, jails, or airports???

No, the County is not a real estate developer, but it does own real estate that can be developed. It is in the best interest of the County Executive, the County Board, and County residents that those lands be developed. That way we get jobs and an expanded tax base, and maybe even a few cool new amenities in some cases.

Lots of county governments have economic development coordinators, and even team up with the private sector to bring in economic development within their borders. They're even successful at it. Milwaukee County government, however, has not been that competent, unfortunately.

If the city wants to get in to that business, then why would the county not just use the city's economic advisor to handle the few pieces of land the county has to develop. Seems more efficient.

Yes, it would be more efficient to streamline the process. The thing is, the County has to be willing to do that. We know the City government certainly has though about it--even suggesting the County just sell the land to the City, and then let the City handle selling land to developers.

But guess what?

The County has not been receptive to that idea.

See a theme there. Not exactly barrett's brilliance that brought in the jobs, but political payback for WI delivering the presidency to BO.

I think the first hurdle we need to jump is the political allegiance, bias, or perspective that might be skewing your opinion. This is not a Walker vs. Barrett argument. It's about the lack of progress in the Park East and who is to blame. All of the developments you cited above were funded in part through federal tax credits. However it took someone (perhaps like an economic supervisor) with enough foresight to realize that the parcels would not get developed without some sort of "subsidizing" from someone. They saw the credits as a catalyst for development, filled out the paperwork, received the credits, and in turn brought jobs and developed land that adds to the tax base. Yes, Barrett (God forbid a democrat of all things!) appointed people to fulfill the functions that in turn led to productive decisions. Back to the most foundational point, the County (Supervisor included) could not even as much as hire an individual to make a decision in the first place.

Its not like its its the county's job to be developing land. If the city wants to get in to that business, then why would the county not just use the city's economic advisor to handle the few pieces of land the county has to develop

Great question! It has been the city's desire for years to take over developing the county's land! In fact, Walker actually supported this idea and it is the County Supervisors getting in the way. So kudos for Walker on that one!-->>>Source (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/42195652.html)

Also, its not like if someone proposed a viable project on one of the massive park east sites, that walker say no.

Your right. But the point is there never will be a viable project until someone takes some leadership from the County's end on this issue. Thankfully a economic supervisor has finally been hired and maybe will start to get the ball rolling.

I think we can all agree on a few things.

1.) Either Walker or the County Supervisors screwed up by not filling the economic supervisor position for a year and half.
2.) The Supervisors are foolish for not allowing the city to take control of the land.

3.) The combined intelligence of this forum could achieve more in the Park East, than what has happened on County owned land since the freeway came down.:)

http://www.biztimes.com/nf/uploads/Image/RE%20Weekly%2009|22|10/Colby-Abbot-Building.jpg

Colby-Abbot Building to get new first floor façade

Published September 22, 2010 - Real Estate Weekly

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A $250,000 construction project will begin soon to improve the first floor façade of the historic Colby-Abbot Building, located at 759 N. Milwaukee St. in downtown Milwaukee.
Mukwonago-based Campbell Construction is the general contractor for the project. The architect is Milwaukee-based Russell E. LaFrombois III Architects.
The project will remove the 1960s era façade and canopy and will replace it with a floor to ceiling glass façade, said Patti Keating-Kahn, the owner of the building. The project is expected to be done by Nov. 1.
“I think it’s going to be a big improvement for the whole corner,” she said. “Something to add pizzazz to this corner.”
The project will be done to improve the façade of the building’s vacant first floor retail space. The façade for the building’s two first floor tenants, Karl Ratzsch’s restaurant and the Tempt bar, will not be affected by the project.
Keating-Kahn said she hopes to renovate the building's entire facade sometime in the future.
The building has 4,000 square feet of vacant first floor space and Keating-Kahn said she is in negotiations with four potential tenants. Each would occupy about 1,000 square feet of retail space.
“We have not signed leases yet,” Keating-Kahn said. “But we have four of them that are real close.”
Karl Ratzch’s occupies about 12,000 square feet of space and Tempt occupies about 2,500 square feet of space.
The 134-year-old, 6-story, 52,500-square-foot building has an occupancy rate of about 90 percent, Keating-Kahn said.

http://www.biztimes.com/nf/uploads/Image/RE%20Weekly%2009|22|10/Villard-Square.jpg

Three low income housing projects break ground in Milwaukee

Published September 22, 2010 - Real Estate Weekly

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Three low income housing projects broke ground recently in Milwaukee.
A groundbreaking ceremony was held Friday to celebrate the start of construction of the $11 million Villard Square project. A partnership of Madison-based Gorman & Company Inc. and the Northwest Side Community Development Corp. is building the four-story housing and library building at 3427 W. Villard Ave., in the central city of Milwaukee.
It will have 47 apartments and 12,871 square feet of ground floor space for a relocated Villard Avenue Library, currently located at 3310 W Villard Ave. The apartments are designed for families in which grandparents are the primary caregivers for their grandchildren.
The Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority (WHEDA) is providing a $1.29 million loan and $7.6 million in low income housing tax credits for the project. The city of Milwaukee is paying $1.29 million to purchase the library space, and is using new market tax credits to reduce its capital outlay.
Other financing sources for the project including Boston Capital, Harris Bank, IFF and community development block grants from the city and the state.
On Tuesday, a groundbreaking ceremony was held for the Becher Terrace project at 1800 W. Becher St., Milwaukee. The project consists of 80 units of affordable housing for elderly residents. The developer, SunStarr Real Estate, received $12.4 million in low income housing tax credits and a $1.5 million tax credit exchange grant from WHEDA.
And today a groundbreaking ceremony was held for the Capuchin Apartments project at 2501 W. Fond du Lac Ave., Milwaukee. The project consists of 38 units of supportive housing for people that are homeless, have a mental illness or have a very low income. The developer, Heartland Housing Inc., received $6.8 million in low income housing tax credits and $1.9 million in tax credit assistance program housing from WHEDA for the project.

Its not like its its the county's job to be developing land.


ummm... WHAT?!?!? :bash::nuts:

the county has been sitting on that land ever since the park east went down... of COURSE It is their job to develop the land. wtf?!

Ballet, MCW, UWM join forces for downtown arts, clinic space

The Business Journal of Milwaukee (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2010/09/27/daily17.html) - by David Schuyler

The Milwaukee Ballet Company will join with Froedtert & Medical College of Wisconsin, the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee’s Peck School of the Arts and other potential partners under a plan that will create a new downtown hub of arts, art education and wellness activity within the next five years.

The plan, dubbed the “Harmony Initiative,” will create a single space in downtown Milwaukee — specifically the North Water Street corridor — to house the Ballet’s new administrative offices, its school and rehearsal space combined with a Froedtert & Medical College of Wisconsin sports medicine clinic.

The space will also provide UWM’s Peck School of the Arts a prominent state-of-the-art location for the staging of its public dance programs, giving the school heightened accessibility and enhancing visibility within the downtown arts district.

“Not only will it provide a crucial solution to space limitations we all face, but also just as importantly, it will raise the profile of UWM high-caliber artistic and creative talents,” said Wade Hobgood, dean of the Peck School.

The space will also provide the opportunity for the project partners to create other public arts and wellness programs to provide additional revenue.

The Medical College already supports the Ballet with in-kind medical and rehabilitation services under the organizations' longtime partnership, said Dennis Buehler, executive director of the Milwaukee Ballet. In return, the Medical College gains access to the Ballet’s highly trained athletes for research into how dance affects the structure, muscles and bones of the human body. By sharing space, the Medical College will gain on-site access to advanced medical equipment for health care services and for research.

Development of the initiative will move forward with the aid of a five-year, $1 million gift from the Richard and Ethel Herzfeld Foundation. The grant will fund the establishment of a project cabinet that will work with the city of Milwaukee to identify a site and identify any additional partners possibly by early winter. Construction costs will be funded through a fundraising effort.

Anyone know if this is a new space or if they are remodeling a current space?

I would guess this will be a new space. My guess is that it will be either in the once planned Staybridge Suites tower on the southeast corner of Juneau and Water or the property on the northeast corner bordered by Knapp, Market, Juneau and Water. That is where the M&I employees park during the week. Its the only open space left on Water Street near the Marcus Center without a proposed development.

Speaking of Staybridge, anyone know where that litigation stands? It's bad enough we have to look at that awful building "design", even worse that it stands vacant and unfinished (with the exception of QDobda of course).

I like the design of the staybridge. It's much better then some suburban looking hotel or even the final aloft designs. I hope it is finished in 2011.

@Coldwake Agree the Staybridge is a pretty good design. Built up to the street edge, hides the parking fairly well, and has more articulation than so many buildings built today (for example the Aloft). Hopefully, that court case will get resolved soon, and it can come to life.

Saw the article in JSOnline. This might add a new twist to the possiblity of a new Mixed-Use Tower in the near future: von Briesen & Roper continues to consider downtown space options
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel


The von Briesen & Roper law firm, which had hoped to make a decision by Thursday on its search for a new, larger Milwaukee headquarters, will need more time.

The firm now leases around 53,600 square feet at the 411 Building, 411 E. Wisconsin Ave. That lease expires in 2013, and von Briesen & Roper is seeking up to 75,000 square feet, with additional available space for growth.

The firm had hoped to make an announcement by Sept. 30. But that deadline has been postponed, it was announced Wednesday.

“There are several exciting proposals circulating, and several new prospects on the horizon. We have
made significant progress with more than one developer and we believe we are close to a deal,”
said Randall Crocker, the firm's president and CEO.

“However, the County Executive’s announcement that O’Donnell Park may be available for development and the Milwaukee Ballet’s Harmony Initiative are both exciting developments that could impact our decision,” Crocker said, in a statement.

“We are committed to downtown Milwaukee, and we believe the time is right for a new, mixed-use tower. We would be delighted to anchor this project," Crocker said.

Saw the article in JSOnline. This might add a new twist to the possiblity of a new Mixed-Use Tower in the near future: von Briesen & Roper continues to consider downtown space options
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel


The von Briesen & Roper law firm, which had hoped to make a decision by Thursday on its search for a new, larger Milwaukee headquarters, will need more time.

The firm now leases around 53,600 square feet at the 411 Building, 411 E. Wisconsin Ave. That lease expires in 2013, and von Briesen & Roper is seeking up to 75,000 square feet, with additional available space for growth.

The firm had hoped to make an announcement by Sept. 30. But that deadline has been postponed, it was announced Wednesday.

“There are several exciting proposals circulating, and several new prospects on the horizon. We have
made significant progress with more than one developer and we believe we are close to a deal,”
said Randall Crocker, the firm's president and CEO.

“However, the County Executive’s announcement that O’Donnell Park may be available for development and the Milwaukee Ballet’s Harmony Initiative are both exciting developments that could impact our decision,” Crocker said, in a statement.

“We are committed to downtown Milwaukee, and we believe the time is right for a new, mixed-use tower. We would be delighted to anchor this project," Crocker said.


Last I checked, the Public Trust line runs through O'Donnell Park. The doctrine was discussed as recently as June (Link (http://www.county.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/Groups/Everyone/ParksUpload/LDAC/Minutes/LDACmin060710.pdf)) so I'd assume the state statutes haven't been changed since then. If an office development were to be built on that site, it'd have to be on top of the Western half of Coast...turning a 50,000 sq ft building into a 15 ft wide skyscraper.

Walker clearly doesn't know what he's talking about is selling that land...but what's new.

If the new restaurant in place of Po8 was allowed I'm sure there won't be any problem using the entire O'Donnell space for a new developement.

But this brings up the issue of the view from the Avenue. People have been griping for years about the DiSuvero being in the way of the Calatrava. Any building above street level is going to be even worse. I just don't see this space as being practical for developement. Talk about walling off the lakefront!

If the new restaurant in place of Po8 was allowed I'm sure there won't be any problem using the entire O'Donnell space for a new developement.

But this brings up the issue of the view from the Avenue. People have been griping for years about the DiSuvero being in the way of the Calatrava. Any building above street level is going to be even worse. I just don't see this space as being practical for developement. Talk about walling off the lakefront!

Actually, I thought the article was of interest more because it seems we might be very close a new Mixed-Use Tower, not "any" specific location. Just the idea of a new building possibly going up in the CBD is exciting enough.

I have a feeling that Von Briesen will consider joining forces with the Harmony Initiative in this building:

http://www.gpchicago.com/users/FolderData/%7B15D465FD-73BF-47E7-B8AA-91D5BED81CD2%7D/OVPweb_2.jpg

http://www.gpchicago.com/users/FolderData/{15D465FD-73BF-47E7-B8AA-91D5BED81CD2}/OVPweb_1.jpg

It makes sense for a lot reasons...Already in the Arts District, but close enough to the Central Business District for Von Briesen. It would probably be cheaper for parking to just reclad the existing parking structure on Water rather than build from scratch. Plus we know Von Briesen wants to work with Irgens. I am just tired of waiting!

I'd love to just see a new urban park in place of the O'Donnell structure. There are way too many other locations in Milwaukee that need development more, and I am a proponent of not hiding the Calatrava. Why not create an urban "oasis" with an emphasis on water. Put some WELL designed fountains in that work well with the space and continue Milwaukee's image growth as a water minded city.

I'd love to just see a new urban park in place of the O'Donnell structure. There are way too many other locations in Milwaukee that need development more, and I am a proponent of not hiding the Calatrava. Why not create an urban "oasis" with an emphasis on water. Put some WELL designed fountains in that work well with the space and continue Milwaukee's image growth as a water minded city.

I couldn't agree with you more, AcctStdntUWM. I think it would a big mistake to throw a development on the O'Donnell site just because, in Scott Walker's nose-down myopic world, it would yield more money for the city/county.
Calatrava designed the art museum addition with that space in mind-- he lined it up perfectly so that if you are walking east on Wisconsin Avenue, you can see its 'wings' spread open blocks and blocks away. It is one of the iconic views of our modern city. To put a structure there and remove the the open park space would be a terrible terrible bastardization of a wonderful design. If anything IS developed, I would think it CRITICAL for Calatrava to be involved, if not in lead charge of the design itself. A degree of symmetry could be reached if Calatrava were brought in to design a replacement parking structure/park/whatever across the foot bridge from the art museum. If it can't be done with him involved, then I say leave it the F alone.

I couldn't agree with you more, AcctStdntUWM. I think it would a big mistake to throw a development on the O'Donnell site just because, in Scott Walker's nose-down myopic world, it would yield more money for the city/county.
Calatrava designed the art museum addition with that space in mind-- he lined it up perfectly so that if you are walking east on Wisconsin Avenue, you can see its 'wings' spread open blocks and blocks away. It is one of the iconic views of our modern city. To put a structure there and remove the the open park space would be a terrible terrible bastardization of a wonderful design. If anything IS developed, I would think it CRITICAL for Calatrava to be involved, if not in lead charge of the design itself. A degree of symmetry could be reached if Calatrava were brought in to design a replacement parking structure/park/whatever across the foot bridge from the art museum. If it can't be done with him involved, then I say leave it the F alone.

I think that you could develop the area between Mason and Wisconsin, while still leaving the view corridor down Wisconsin Ave intact, as well as adding open space along Lincoln Memorial. The footbridge could remain connected at the Wisconsin-grade, but the rest of the connection to the lake could be improved. I think that you guys are excluding some really creative things that could be done there that could also include a private development.

I have a feeling that Von Briesen will consider joining forces with the Harmony Initiative in this building:

http://www.gpchicago.com/users/FolderData/%7B15D465FD-73BF-47E7-B8AA-91D5BED81CD2%7D/OVPweb_2.jpg

http://www.gpchicago.com/users/FolderData/{15D465FD-73BF-47E7-B8AA-91D5BED81CD2}/OVPweb_1.jpg

It makes sense for a lot reasons...Already in the Arts District, but close enough to the Central Business District for Von Briesen. It would probably be cheaper for parking to just reclad the existing parking structure on Water rather than build from scratch. Plus we know Von Briesen wants to work with Irgens. I am just tired of waiting!

I love the Ovation Plaza design but I thought it was dead? Am I wrong?

Marcus Center revives plans for redevelopment of parking structure
Trying to raise the curtain on a project

The Business Journal of Milwaukee - by Kathy Bergstrom

Officials at the Marcus Center for the Performing Arts in downtown Milwaukee are reintroducing a proposed mixed-use redevelopment of the center’s parking garage in hopes that developers will again see the project’s potential in an improving economy.

To help get the project off the ground, they have a new marketing tool in the form of a set of concepts developed by students at Milwaukee School of Engineering.

They say the time is right to approach developers again as the economy slowly starts to improve and financing is somewhat easier to obtain. The site is garnering some interest from developers as a mixed-use project, said William Bonifas, executive vice president of CB Richard Ellis, Milwaukee, who is marketing the site.

In 2007, Irgens Development Partners, Wauwatosa, dropped its plans to develop Ovation Plaza, a 300,000-square-foot office building on the North Water Street site, near State Street, citing rising construction costs and flat rents.

Major tenants in the market had chosen other locations and Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett also had expressed concerns about the size of the $47 million tax incremental financing district that was proposed for the development.

Then the economy took a nosedive.

“Our efforts really stalled in large measure because of the economic downturn,” said Paul Mathews, Marcus Center president and chief executive officer.

But the center still needs to replace and expand its aging parking structure. In 2009, the center made $2.5 million in repairs to the garage, extending its life until 2013. The current parking structure has 700 stalls, but the center needs 1,000 to 1,200 to adequately serve its patrons. A new garage would cost $40 million to $50 million and could generate roughly $2 million annually for the Marcus Center.

In addition to the parking garage, the project, now branded as Marcus Center Plaza, also is proposed to provide other revenue-generating sources for the Marcus Center such as space for special events, Mathews said.

Current parking revenue is about $1 million annually, and the increase would help the Marcus Center toward its goal of self reliance as a nonprofit, Mathews said. The long-term goal is to replace Milwaukee County’s $1.28 million operational subsidy with parking revenue. The Marcus Center leases the land from the city and would continue to own the parking garage.

The Marcus Center wants to finance the parking garage with a TIF and parking revenue, and Mathews said officials will revisit the size of it.

“We’re really excited about the possibility of a building coming out of the ground there,” said Rocky Marcoux, commissioner of Milwaukee’s Department of City Development. “It’s a very valuable, very underutilized piece of property that’s right in the middle of our downtown business district and is essentially a hop, skip and a jump away from the Park East.”


Read more: Marcus Center revives plans for redevelopment of parking structure - The Business Journal of Milwaukee (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2010/06/28/focus1.html)

This was written in August, so there is definitely still interest in getting the site developed. We'll see I guess :)

Speaking of dead projects, this one would be swell:

http://www.rinkachung.com/Project%20Pages/Lake%20Pointe%20Tower/Images/LPT-2.gif
(Rinka Chung)

"Marcus Center Plaza" has a nice ring to it

I think that you could develop the area between Mason and Wisconsin, while still leaving the view corridor down Wisconsin Ave intact, as well as adding open space along Lincoln Memorial. The footbridge could remain connected at the Wisconsin-grade, but the rest of the connection to the lake could be improved. I think that you guys are excluding some really creative things that could be done there that could also include a private development.

There just way to many other places in downtown that need development more. Also, feel that that area should be dedicated to highlighting the Calatrava and a building even if it's only a few stories is going to take away from that.

If a developer wants to pursue a project very close to the lakefront they should be looking at the area where the Lake Point Tower was proposed/Transit Center area...IMO

If you replaced the floors that are for parking in O'Donnell, which are below grade and underneath Wisconsin Ave, I suppose you could have a development that wouldn't inhibit the view of the MAM -- and yes, you could even do so by having a tower on the northern end of O'Donnell where all the trees and gardens are at the moment-- and it wouldn't alter the presentation of the Calatrava too much, I don't think... Still, this locale is so critical in terms of connecting the bluff edge on Wisconsin Ave to the coastline, any proposal would have to be scrutinized to the core in order to make sure what was replacing the plaza was indeed an improvement in all regards.
What strikes me is that it's such a shame Milwaukee doesn't have light rail or a streetcar of any sort yet, as the O'Donnell site could make a perfect location for an underground stop for a dedicated rail line and this would present itself with a wonderful opportunity to integrate one into any development built there. Sadly, the proposed light rail from 20 years ago doesn't exist, otherwise this would have been a perfect chance to build a "Museum station" there for it. *sigh*

What about finding a new site for that asterisk at the east end of Wisconsin Ave?

:|

Mike

http://www.avclub.com/milwaukee/articles/will-somebody-please-help-us-unmask-this-dopey-riv,45912/


Looks like Riverwest has its own superhero.

What about finding a new site for that asterisk at the east end of Wisconsin Ave?

:|

Mike

donate it to Barry Bonds art collection.

http://www.avclub.com/milwaukee/articles/will-somebody-please-help-us-unmask-this-dopey-riv,45912/


Looks like Riverwest has its own superhero.

I've seen that guy prowling around downtown at like 2 am after bartime following a Bucks game. Love seeing these interesting characters around town.

donate it to Barry Bonds art collection.

lol you beat me to it...

Development of O'Donnell Park site could be a challenge
By Andrew Weiland , of BizTimes
Published October 1, 2010

In the aftermath of the tragic death of a 15-year-boy in June, when a concrete panel fell off the façade of the O’Donnell Park parking structure on Milwaukee’s the lakefront, Milwaukee County officials are beginning to consider future plans for the structure.

It would cost millions of dollars to repair the facility.

Increasingly, some county officials are warming to the idea of selling the property to a private developer in hopes of attracting a better use for the site.

“This is prime development land,” said Milwaukee County Supervisor Lynne De Bruin, who has been one of the leading advocates for selling the property.

De Bruin says the county should issue a request for proposals (RFP) seeking developers that want to purchase and redevelop the O’Donnell Park site and the county’s bus transit center, located just south of O’Donnell Park on the south side of Michigan Street.

“It’s a hugely attractive site, especially when you combine the two (O’Donnell Park and the bus transit center) together,” she said.

It is easy to see why some consider the O’Donnell Park site a prime redevelopment opportunity. It is located on the lakefront, adjacent to the iconic Calatrava addition to the Milwaukee Art Museum, Discovery World and the Summerfest grounds. It is also located just off I-794 and is in the heart of the city’s central business district only a block from the U.S. Bank Center and across the street from Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Co.’s corporate headquarters.

To many, a parking structure is far from being the highest and best use of a prime site in the central business district, along the lakefront and next to an iconic building.

“This is an opportunity to come up with something better,” said Supervisor Mark Borkowski. “It’s a prime piece of real estate. I think with the creative minds that we have in this city we can make lemonade out of a lemon. I will be very disappointed if we throw this opportunity out the window.”

However, for numerous reasons it will be very difficult to attract a significant development to the O’Donnell Park site, despite the many attributes of its location, according to some commercial real estate professionals.

The biggest problem could be a lack of demand for development in downtown Milwaukee. The U.S. economy remains weak, and demand for office, retail and residential development in downtown Milwaukee is soft.

“The market’s not there today to do something there,” said Bill Bonifas, executive vice president of CB Richard Ellis. “I don’t see what could go down there and be successful.”

Several developers have proposed office buildings in downtown Milwaukee in recent years, but a new multi-tenant office building has not been completed downtown in about seven years. A handful of potential anchor tenants are in the market for new office space, and most commercial real estate professionals expect one office project, at the most, to obtain enough tenants to build a new office building in downtown Milwaukee.

The downtown Milwaukee retail market is even weaker than the office market and the downtown Business Improvement District (BID) has created a plan to give away retail space for free in an attempt to attract stores.

The O’Donnell Park site could be an ideal location for a hotel, but occupancy rates of downtown hotels will have to return to pre-Great Recession levels to attract a hotel developer.

“You couldn’t ask for a better site to position a hotel on,” said Greg Hanis, president of New Berlin-based Hospitality Marketers International Inc.

Residential development downtown has dropped dramatically after the condo development boom ended with the collapse of the housing market that precipitated the Great Recession. Condo development downtown is essentially dead, but some developers are working on apartment projects.

However, developers for some significant apartment projects are seeking government loans because they are struggling to obtain financing, despite high apartment occupancy rates downtown.

That demonstrates another problem with efforts to attract development to the O’Donnell Park site: the capital markets for commercial real estate development remain extremely tight. Any development proposed for the site will likely need a significant public subsidy to obtain private financing.

“I don’t know if it’s feasible without some public and private support,” said Mike Mervis, vice president of Zilber Ltd. “I don’t know where that will come from. Without significant private and public support, it won’t happen.”

The process to redevelop the O’Donnell Park site will take some time, and the space and capital markets should improve eventually, De Bruin said.

“The recession is going to end,” she said. “It will be years before it comes to fruition and something gets built.”

Another problem is that the O’Donnell Park site covers a large area, approximately an entire city block. The bus transit center, which De Bruin also wants to see redeveloped, covers an additional half of a block. Larger properties are harder to develop, and the county has had zero success attracting development to its large vacant blocks in the Park East corridor.

In addition, any proposal to turn a park property over to a private developer will face objection from parks advocates.

Also, the parking spaces in the O’Donnell structure are critical for the area, so any new development will likely be required to replace those spaces. The bridge that connects Wisconsin Avenue to the art museum would also need to be preserved as part of any new building. Plus, the needs of the Betty Brinn Children’s Museum and the Coast Restaurant also would need to be addressed. The RFP could include those and other requirements, De Bruin said.

A tall lakefront development could create complaints about lake view obstruction. Alderman Robert Bauman said that in order to preserve the view down Wisconsin Avenue of the Calatrava and the lake, no development on the O’Donnell Park site should occur on the portion of the site that is north of Wisconsin Avenue. He said he would support development on the site south of Wisconsin Avenue.

The city’s new downtown master plan includes a catalytic project for the area that calls for relocating the bus transfer center near the Milwaukee Intermodal Station and improving the public connection between the lakefront and the central business district. The plan also calls for private development of the bus transfer center site and for part of the O’Donnell Park site.

The O’Donnell Park location along the downtown Milwaukee lakefront is so important that any decision about its future must be made as part of an open, public process, said Richard “Rocky” Marcoux, commissioner of the Department of City Development.

“Everybody should have a role and a say in this,” Marcoux said. “There is a significant amount of money that needs to be spent there. Rather than spend money to fix what was not a good solution, let’s rethink it. It needs to be done right. (The lakefront) is our front door to the rest of the world. We have an opportunity do make it even better.”

However, Bonifas suggests the county take a more realistic view and simply repair the parking structure, which provides parking spaces that are needed for nearby businesses and attractions, and preserve the park.

“It would be one thing if we had no other sites available for development downtown,” said Bonifas.

There are several, of course, other vacant or underdeveloped properties downtown.

“I would rebuild it as a parking structure,” Bonifas said. “I see the glamour of having a lake view and a view of the art museum, but I don’t see the demand for it. Unfortunately, you can make grant plans in Milwaukee, but it never seems to manifest.”

“I would rebuild it as a parking structure,” Bonifas said. “I see the glamour of having a lake view and a view of the art museum, but I don’t see the demand for it. Unfortunately, you can make grant plans in Milwaukee, but it never seems to manifest.”

hell no, IF there is no demand for it then LEAVE IT as an open green space.

Seriously, there is no lack for open parcells to develope in downtown Milwaukee. Just fix the structure and be done with it. There's not much you can do down there with all those restrictions, large parcell size, and the need to keep the view open. Plus nothing will happen for a long long LONG time even if it does.

Fix it and be done with it.

As much as I'd love a new development there as much as the next person, I agree with Coldwake. It's not like if you fix it now you can't tear it down later if the demand warrants it. Might as well make some money on the property with the parking fees until the demand shows up to build something truly unique, and not something that is of a lesser quality now which most likely would be permanent.

I agree with the last two posters, fix the parking structure and leave it in place for another generation.

The biggest bang for the buck can come from redeveloping/rerouting the 794 ramps and opening up more land for development.

Spending millions of dollars to fix it just to tear it down and make it into something else later seems silly. Why not put out an RFP and see what comes of it? Maybe UWM's SARUP could come up with something?

What is the current state of this structure? More specifically, is it going to collapse tonight? Next year? Is there a quick, temporary fix that would last ten years? That would probably be enough time to solidify a great project for this spot.

Is there a quick, temporary fix that would last ten years? That would probably be enough time to solidify a great project for this spot.

That's what we're saying...but yeah it would cost about $5.8 million to fix. This article states that the structure makes $110,000/mo in parking, so $13.2 mil over the course of 10 years. If it added 10 years of life, I don't think that would be silly at all.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/102442794.html

That's what we're saying...but yeah it would cost about $5.8 million to fix. This article states that the structure makes $110,000/mo in parking, so $13.2 mil over the course of 10 years. If it added 10 years of life, I don't think that would be silly at all.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/102442794.html

That's a lower number than I thought. Not silly anymore. Thanks.

didn't they take all the decorative panels off already? isn't that the "fix"? also, the cost of repairing it is going to have to be paid for by the original builder, if i'm not mistaken-- as they were liable. so, just have them fix it/pay for it-- would they still pay the county the money they owe for those repairs if it were torn down and replaced? i doubt their insurance company would agree to that...

I've seen that guy prowling around downtown at like 2 am after bartime following a Bucks game. Love seeing these interesting characters around town.

There is a new superhero too,
Blackbird. The video is pretty cool. Weird.
Very Kick Ass but real life.
And hes not trying to beat people up.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/104252724.html

didn't they take all the decorative panels off already? isn't that the "fix"?

No, the facade panels have not been removed.

But the panels are only part of the problem. Inspections of O'Donnell Park(ing Garage) and the Transit Center revealed several other problems that need fixing (http://media.journalinteractive.com/documents/O%27Donnell+Structural+Evaluation_090810+.pdf) (PDF of inspection report) besides the panels.

By the way, the costs for fixing those non-panel problems are not included in the cost estimates for removing ($5.4 million)/modifying ($6.3 million)/replacing ($8.4 million)/repairing ($3 million) the panels (http://media.journalinteractive.com/documents/Memo+on+ODonnell+Park+Options.pdf).

That's what we're saying...but yeah it would cost about $5.8 million to fix. This article states that the structure makes $110,000/mo in parking, so $13.2 mil over the course of 10 years. If it added 10 years of life, I don't think that would be silly at all.

If they fix it, will people trust it enough to park there again?

In other words, will the structure be able to make $110k per month again?

I know I would be hesitant to park there.

valid point, Rogee

Yeah putting money into that parking structure
is just like flushing your money down the toilet.:bash::bash:
Knock the darn thing down. If there is no money,
then leave it be a park or a surface lot until
someone gets their act together and gets the financing
to put something decent there.

That parking structure is not only unsafe,
but very confusing and a haven for homeless,
smells of urine, just plain disgusting
and was just of very poor quality/design to begin with.

What about finding a new site for that asterisk at the east end of Wisconsin Ave?

:|

Mike
I like it fine just where it is.

3 Quality Projects adding to the urban fabric of Milwaukee will be breaking ground this November! Good to see!

Beerline B Apartments (corner of Commerce and Pleasent)

http://urbanmilwaukee.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Rendering2.jpg

New Train Shed at Intermodal Station (started this month actually)
http://urbanmilwaukee.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/1_Rendering.jpg

The Moderne (corner of Juneau and Old World 3rd Street)
http://www.rinkachung.com/Project%20Pages/Moderne/Images/MODERNE-MODEL.JPG

Wednesday, October 6, 2010
Ballet, UWM, Medical College collaboration seeks 70,000 square feet along Water St.

The Harmony Initiative, a collaboration of the Milwaukee Ballet Company, the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Peck School of the Arts and the Medical College of Wisconsin, plans to establish a 70,000- to 75,000-square-foot location in the Water Street corridor in downtown Milwaukee.
The facility would provide space for the Ballet Company’s offices; studios for the Ballet and its school, a small performance center with about 300 to 400 seats for small dance performances, and a sports medicine clinic for the Ballet and the general public.
The Harmony Initiative is looking for space along or near Water Street roughly between Kilbourn Avenue and the Park East corridor, said Milwaukee Ballet executive director Dennis Buehler. The initiative wants to be located as close as possible to the Marcus Center for the Performing Arts, which is where most of the Milwaukee Ballet’s performances are presented.
The initiative will consider existing buildings and proposed new buildings, Buehler said. However, because of the unique space needs for the dance facilities the current focus has been on a possible new building, he said.
“There are a number of options that could exist in the downtown area,” Buehler said. “We’re well into conversations with the city about their longer term redevelopment plans because a project that puts three major cultural institutions in one place could be a catalyst for any number of future projects as well.”
In addition the initiative would prefer to own the space, Buehler said. That would make it easier to do fund-raising for the project. So far $2 million has been contributed for the Harmony Initiative.
The new location would replace the Ballet’s current headquarters at 504 W. National Ave., in the city’s Walker’s Point neighborhood.


It will be interesting to see where they end up...70,000-75,000 sq ft. is pretty big.

http://dailyreporter.com/blog/2010/10/06/files/2010/10/westlawn.jpg

By Marie Rohde

The city of Milwaukee is ready to tear down the largest public housing project in the state and replace it with a neighborhood.

“When you drive by Westlawn, there’s no mistaking that it’s a housing project,” said Paul Williams, a spokesman for the Housing Authority of the City of Milwaukee. “We want to change that.”

The Westlawn housing complex, a series of barracks-style buildings, is on 75 acres bordered by 60th and 64th streets, Silver Spring Drive and the Lincoln Creek.

The redevelopment is intended to break down the boundaries that isolate the complex from the rest of the community. The new Westlawn will be a mixture of privately owned homes and housing for seniors, the disabled and the poor.

Homes that will sell at market rates will be built around the perimeter of the complex. Carolyn Esswein, adjunct assistant professor of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee’s Department of Urban Planning who is familiar with the plans, said those homes are attractive because they will be on 35- to 40-foot-wide lots while the average city lot is 25 feet.

Read the rest of the story here. (http://dailyreporter.com/blog/2010/10/06/milwaukee-looking-to-develop-westlawn-public-housing-complex/?utm_source=Publicaster&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=10/6/2010&utm_term=Welcome+to+the+neighborhood%3a+Westlawn+ready+for+remake)

What the heck?? Those were some of the nicest "projects" I've ever seen! I've pointed them out to people from out of town before and they were in awe of how nice they were. In addition, I remember reading that when those were built they were a model of how to do good low income housing because of the seperate outside access, community style layout, etc.

Who's going to pay for these privately owned homes and senior housing developments? Not to mention, where are they putting all those people that live there now if there's going to be fewer homes and many filled with seniors and the disabled?

Wait, who would want to buy a house in "the pojects" anyway? That can't speak very well for home values.

After an initial look at this I'm not a fan... I'm open to being convinced otherwise though.

Not too distract from Coldwake's comments, because I'm curious what others think of the redo of Westlawn as well. But....

Financially troubled Grand Avenue mall to be sold at auction
By Tom Daykin of the Journal Sentinel
Oct. 7, 2010 10:14 a.m. |(77) COMMENTS

The company that owns the financially troubled Shops of Grand Avenue will be sold at a public auction later this month.

That's according to a notice published in Thursday morning's Journal Sentinel.

The notice says ownership interests in Grand Avenue City Mall LLC, which owns the Shops of Grand Avenue, will be the subject of an Oct. 26 public auction. It will be conducted at the offices of Arnold & Porter, a New York law firm.

The auction is being conducted by FMC Real Estate CDO 2005-1 Ltd., an affiliate of Five Mile Capital Partners LLC.

Stamford, Conn.-based Five Mile describes itself as "an alternative investment and asset management company established in 2003."

Five Mile apparently holds the loan used to finance the 2005 purchase of Grand Avenue by Grand Avenue City Mall, an affiliate of New York-based Ashkenazy Acquisition Corp.

That loan is apparently part of FMC Real Estate CDO 2005-1 Ltd., a $439.4 million collateralized debt obligation created by Five Mile in 2005. It consists of loans that are secured with commercial real estate, including resort hotels, industrial buildings and a Las Vegas redevelopment site..

In March, Fitch Ratings downgraded that CDO, because of declining commercial real estate market values and property cash flows.

The Fitch report didn't mention the Grand Avenue loan, which would be a small part of the overall loan portfolio.

The auction notice says Five Mile reserves the right to bid on the Grand Avenue. It also says Five Mile could sell all or part of the Grand Avenue ownership interests before the public auction occurs.

Representatives of Ashkenazy couldn't be immediately reached for comment. A Five Mile representative, Jordan Mittman, declined to comment on the auction.

The Grand Avenue appears to be about half empty following closings in recent years by such major tenants as Linens 'n Things and Old Navy.

Ashkenazy paid $31.7 million when it bought the mall five years ago from an affiliate of Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Co. The current assessed value of the mall and its parking structure is $28.1 million.

City Development Commissioner Rocky Marcoux said city officials have not been notified of any ownership change at the Grand Avenue.

The city in 2001 provided financing assistance to help Northwestern Mutual make renovations to the Grand Avenue. The city borrowed the money, and it's being repaid through property taxes generated by improvements at the mall, through a tax incremental financing district.

Around $10.1 million in city funds, including interest payments, are expected to be paid back by 2016, according to the most recent annual report on the district by the Department of City Development. Once the debt is paid off, the property taxes flow to the city, Milwuakee Public Schools, Milwaukee County and other local governments.

If the mall is sold at a price lower than its assessed value, that would reduce the annual amount of property tax payments that are paying off the city's debt. In turn, that would lengthen that payback period.

The city also has provided financing help for improvements to buildings adjacent to the Grand Avenue.

Those projects include the remodeled Boston Store building, which houses company offices for the department store chain as well as apartments. Another neighboring project is the conversion of the former Marshall Field's store into offices, a hotel and a Borders Books store.

Property taxes from those improvements are expected to pay back $23.6 million in city funds by 2014.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/104491664.html

I'm inside the Grand Avenue right now and about ten minutes ago I turned to my friend and said, "For a Dead Mall, this place sure does have a lot of people in it."

That's the problem. People really only fill that place up during lunchtime (food court).

so, why not turn the whole mall into a year round indoor farmer's market? sure, it's not "upscale", but at least it would draw people in there.

or, another idea would me to make it into an antiques mall. when i visited buenos aires, argentina a few years ago, i found a whole district in that city which is filled with indoor antiques malls. they add to the genuine culture of that city-- nobody berates them as being seedy or tacky, but rather culturally rich environments and great places to find treasures...

so, why not turn the whole mall into a year round indoor farmer's market? sure, it's not "upscale", but at least it would draw people in there.

or, another idea would me to make it into an antiques mall.

HOW DID I NOT THINK OF THIS?!?! surely this is the answer!! better yet, why not an antique market for farmers? the new buyers must be informed of this potential, it would be an absolute gold mine!!!

What the heck?? Those were some of the nicest "projects" I've ever seen! I've pointed them out to people from out of town before and they were in awe of how nice they were. In addition, I remember reading that when those were built they were a model of how to do good low income housing because of the seperate outside access, community style layout, etc.

Who's going to pay for these privately owned homes and senior housing developments? Not to mention, where are they putting all those people that live there now if there's going to be fewer homes and many filled with seniors and the disabled?

Wait, who would want to buy a house in "the pojects" anyway? That can't speak very well for home values.

After an initial look at this I'm not a fan... I'm open to being convinced otherwise though.

The Housing Authority is doing to Westlawn what it did with Lapham Park/Carver Park, Highland Gardens, and Parklawn. A mix of building types (multi-family buildings and sigle-family houses); a mix of ownership arrangements (public and private); eliminating the secluded, cut-off-from-the-surrounding-neighborhood street, sidewalk, and block patterns; and replacing dilapidated, decades-old, obsolete buildings with new construction.

If you and your visitors were so awed by the Westlawn as the "nicest projects you've ever seen," go visit some of those other Housing Authority redevelopments.

2011 is going to be a really exciting year for the Park East and the area surrounding it. Can't wait to look out the window from where I work (16th floor, 633. W. Wisconsin) and see the Moderne, Beerline B, 2nd Phase of the North End, and possible a new building on Water St. all under construction.

I don't remember seeing this mentioned before, but on one of the news talk shows on tv, they have composite photos of regional cities in the country and for the midwest, right between the Gateway Arch and it-will-always-be-the Sears Tower is the Calatrava. Sweet!

lol you beat me to it...

Glad somebody got that joke. :lol:

What the heck?? Those were some of the nicest "projects" I've ever seen! I've pointed them out to people from out of town before and they were in awe of how nice they were. In addition, I remember reading that when those were built they were a model of how to do good low income housing because of the seperate outside access, community style layout, etc.

Who's going to pay for these privately owned homes and senior housing developments? Not to mention, where are they putting all those people that live there now if there's going to be fewer homes and many filled with seniors and the disabled?

Wait, who would want to buy a house in "the pojects" anyway? That can't speak very well for home values.

After an initial look at this I'm not a fan... I'm open to being convinced otherwise though.

yeah, I completely agree. That always seemed like a pretty nice set up for public housing. Leafy, park like setting and not to far from jobs and nicer parts of the city. That place is huge, it's going to be quite a project.

HOW DID I NOT THINK OF THIS?!?! surely this is the answer!! better yet, why not an antique market for farmers? the new buyers must be informed of this potential, it would be an absolute gold mine!!!

Wow. You are a huge dick.



Got any better ideas, jackbag?

If you and your visitors were so awed by the Westlawn as the "nicest projects you've ever seen," go visit some of those other Housing Authority redevelopments.

Agreed. Having been inside many of these units, they weren't in the best shape (plumbing/electrical issues, leaky basements etc.), and aren't any huge loss. The redo is going to be way better from the plans I've seen. Currently, the streets are poorly integrated with the rest of the neighborhood, and the vast courtyards the buildings tend to turn their backs on feel unsafe, especially at 3 in the morning. Look at Parklawn, Carver Park, and Highland Park (now Highland Gardens/Highland Homes) if you want to see some really nice public housing. There's even a model home on 17th and Mckinley you can look at.

I don't remember seeing this mentioned before, but on one of the news talk shows on tv, they have composite photos of regional cities in the country and for the midwest, right between the Gateway Arch and it-will-always-be-the Sears Tower is the Calatrava. Sweet!

Which one?

The Housing Authority is doing to Westlawn what it did with Lapham Park/Carver Park, Highland Gardens, and Parklawn. A mix of building types (multi-family buildings and sigle-family houses); a mix of ownership arrangements (public and private); eliminating the secluded, cut-off-from-the-surrounding-neighborhood street, sidewalk, and block patterns; and replacing dilapidated, decades-old, obsolete buildings with new construction.

If you and your visitors were so awed by the Westlawn as the "nicest projects you've ever seen," go visit some of those other Housing Authority redevelopments.

It all makes sense except that the westlawn buildings seemed to be in pretty good condition structurally. Look at the picture, the roof is great, the brickwork looks like it's held up very well, the exposed structural areas look sound.

These homes look to be in MUCH better condition then so many parts of the city where homes are literally dangerous to live in. Why are we tearing down these perfectly useable buildings where we could have created these neighborhoods in areas with much worse housing stock? If anything, these could have been sold off to private owners to take it off government bankrolls.

Clearly new building is better and the new neighborhoods are probably awesome. But why destroy 30-40 year old buildings when so many 100 year old crumbling buildings exist?

Agreed. Having been inside many of these units, they weren't in the best shape (plumbing/electrical issues, leaky basements etc.), and aren't any huge loss. The redo is going to be way better from the plans I've seen. Currently, the streets are poorly integrated with the rest of the neighborhood, and the vast courtyards the buildings tend to turn their backs on feel unsafe, especially at 3 in the morning. Look at Parklawn, Carver Park, and Highland Park (now Highland Gardens/Highland Homes) if you want to see some really nice public housing. There's even a model home on 17th and Mckinley you can look at.

most of my response can be read in the one to markitect, but like I said structurally from what I've seen they are pretty good. Things like plumbing, electrical, wet basement are maintenance items to be repaired... no big deal. The housing in some parts of the city have problems that are so much worse. Water damaged, mold, leaking roof, foundation issues, etc. It just seems like a waste and we could have built the new neighborhood in another area that needs it more.

most of my response can be read in the one to markitect, but like I said structurally from what I've seen they are pretty good. Things like plumbing, electrical, wet basement are maintenance items to be repaired... no big deal. The housing in some parts of the city have problems that are so much worse. Water damaged, mold, leaking roof, foundation issues, etc. It just seems like a waste and we could have built the new neighborhood in another area that needs it more.

Well in addition to the maintenance issues, many of which are also a result of deficient design, there are the other factors. Like addressing the overall site layout, which ignores the surrounding neighborhoods, and creates needless public safety issues. There is also the fact that HACM applied for federal HOPE VI grants for the project (they were denied) and that type of money generally requires new construction. The project is being funded with a combination of private capital and WHEDA grants. It all goes toward the latest philosophy in public housing which is to break up the large superblock housing projects and recreate more organic, mixed income neighborhoods.

And if you still aren't buying into this project, dont worry. They're only doing the eastern half of Westlawn. Everything west of 64th street will be untouched. ;)

Edit- To address the other part of your concern, the housing authority has in fact been building single family homes scattered all over the inner city in the more dilapidated neighborhoods for years.

HOW DID I NOT THINK OF THIS?!?! surely this is the answer!! better yet, why not an antique market for farmers? the new buyers must be informed of this potential, it would be an absolute gold mine!!!

got any better ideas on what to do with that perpetually failing urban mall, genius? we're all ears. let's hear your grandiose plan for the site. what great project does perilouspete have in mind for the grand avenue? surely, such a wise and better educated person as yourself has the definitive answer on how to fix this mall. no, no... it's fine that business professionals, investors, elected officials and development pundits have tried over and over and over for decades to make the grand avenue work as a mall, only to see it fail time and time again. but no, no, of course... perilouspete is the one who will turn it around as a mall with upscale shops!

Perhaps if the group that's redoing the former Northridge had heard of this auction first,
we might have had something.

A large Asian marketplace downtown; Hmmmmmmmmm...
http://www.sunhairsimscreations.com/forum/images/smilies/daydream-animated-animation-day-dream-smiley-emoticon-000404-medium.gif

like I said structurally from what I've seen they are pretty good. Things like plumbing, electrical, wet basement are maintenance items to be repaired... no big deal. The housing in some parts of the city have problems that are so much worse. Water damaged, mold, leaking roof, foundation issues, etc. It just seems like a waste and we could have built the new neighborhood in another area that needs it more.

Looks can be deceiving.

The buildings at Westlawn (which are 60 years old, by the way, not the 30-40 as you falsely assume) DO have leaking water damage, mold, and foundation issues.

That's in addition to the poor site drainage, outdated electrical systems, ADA access incompatability, and other aforementioned issues.

So no, Westlawn does not just need simple "repairs."

The decline of the state’s largest public housing project (http://www.milwaukeenewsbuzz.com/?p=12275)

Westlawn’s New Deal (http://www.milwaukeenewsbuzz.com/?p=12962)

Which one?
Hannity on Fox, 8pm central.

Hannity on Fox, 8pm central.

Oh great!!! :bash:

Hey, everyone. I'm going to be new to the area in Janurary. I've found a couple of places but would like some "insider info" if you care or have the time. The best (I think) is on Franklin Pl. and Warren. Eastside, right? I do not own a car, I bike, walk, have a scooter and take local transit. Getting around is very easy for me, but the weird thing (for me) is moving to a city where I know no one. I've lived in other cities but have always had someone to either mouve with or move in with.

Anyway, I'm excited and hope to hear some suggestions.

p.s. I'm not rich, so any ideas of me moving to some of the highrises on the lake are pretty much out of the question. $750 at the most for 1br.

Hey, everyone. I'm going to be new to the area in Janurary. I've found a couple of places but would like some "insider info" if you care or have the time. The best (I think) is on Franklin Pl. and Warren. Eastside, right? I do not own a car, I bike, walk, have a scooter and take local transit. Getting around is very easy for me, but the weird thing (for me) is moving to a city where I know no one. I've lived in other cities but have always had someone to either mouve with or move in with.

Anyway, I'm excited and hope to hear some suggestions.

p.s. I'm not rich, so any ideas of me moving to some of the highrises on the lake are pretty much out of the question. $750 at the most for 1br.

It ought to be fun to see what can of worms you just opened on this forum!

Sounds like Brady St, or North Ave area might work for you. I used to rent on Warren St. (Warren Chateau?) Right next to Brady, and was about 600 for a 500 sqft 1 bedroom, but that was a couple years ago. Good luck!

Hey, everyone. I'm going to be new to the area in Janurary. I've found a couple of places but would like some "insider info" if you care or have the time. The best (I think) is on Franklin Pl. and Warren. Eastside, right? I do not own a car, I bike, walk, have a scooter and take local transit. Getting around is very easy for me, but the weird thing (for me) is moving to a city where I know no one. I've lived in other cities but have always had someone to either mouve with or move in with.

Anyway, I'm excited and hope to hear some suggestions.

p.s. I'm not rich, so any ideas of me moving to some of the highrises on the lake are pretty much out of the question. $750 at the most for 1br.

Congratulations on the job! You should have lots of fun exploring the city's many vibrant urban districts.

If you want to live along the lakefront on a budget you might be able to find some good deals on craigslist with people sub-leasing their apartments or leasing their condos. Good luck!