How about building a statue of Harvel Keitels "Mr. White" character in Reservoir Dogs. There are legions of Tarantino geeks out there who probally would go ape s--t over something like that. Perhaps a Ving Rhames statue, joining those historical ones across from the downtown Library. He fought zombies in Milwaukee and was victorious. I dont recall the Fonz doing such a deed in Happy Days ever.

Why not build a statue of Liberace? A Saddam-esque statue of him looming over La Cage in Walkers Point.

Why not build a statue of Liberace? A Saddam-esque statue of him looming over La Cage in Walkers Point.

I didn't think La Cage could become any worse and you just provided a way they could achieve that. Kudos

I admittedly don't get to Milwaukee enough, especially during the winter. What is the "accurate contemporary view of the city" to you, if I might ask?

You could start by reading the updated downtown plan posted a little while ago.

http://www.mkedcd.org/planning/plans/downtown/Update08/DT_Update%20Report_FINAL.pdf

Oh, I know but I am just reacting to the city honoring a t.v. character. Like I said, its great if can bring these goofballs downtown to see it. But cmon. Im not trying to sound like some arrogant jackass, but these things just reinforce how Milwaukee is viewed by outsiders. That all we are about is beer and old t.v. shows that never even filmed here outside the opening credits.

I dont even understand what kind of people would drive all the way to Milwaukee to see this anyway. I like the Fresh Prince of Bel Air and grew up watching it. I wouldnt go out of my way to see a bronze statue of Carleton or Uncle Phil. I wouldnt go out of my way to see a Tony Soprano statue or a Tim 'Toolman' Taylor in Detroit.

Hey, Ace. Why not look into picking up some chill pills. Man, you are jazzed up over this...and you don't need to be, my friend. Do you not believe Milwaukee is big enough to absorb some fun to counter all of those serious statues of politicians (oh, brother :ohno:)?

Do you realize all of the free publicity Downtown Milwaukee has already seen from this idea? Then, watch the attention when Henry Winkler, his family, other members of the Happy Days cast -- and media outlets from here and there -- come to visit our fair city for the dedication later this year. My goodness, the $80,000 cost of the statue will pay for itself in a week. And the best part: it did not cost you a dime!

Wonderfully said King. And both political parties can cheer and raise a beer to that! :lol:

Never. Not until the thing comes crumbling down in a revolution. I reserve my American right to simply hate the thing on principle. :)

Why not some statues of our former mayors, or any REAL citizens of Milwaukee. That would be cool.

Oh, yeah...real cool, man. C'mon Brew, you may want to graduate up a size--your shorts are getting a wee bit snug. There must be bigger issues for you to lose sleep over. Why waste so much energy over this?

The last mayor to get a statue was the first mayor! At least, I know of no other statues erected to honor Milwaukee's mayors, except for Solomon Juneau -- over-looking the lake across the street from the UCT and KT condos. Other mayors have been immortalized by having their name attached to something -- Meier Festival Park, the Hoan Bridge, Zeidler Park -- but no statues as far as I know.

Anyway, let's have fun with this and give it a chance to give Downtown a boost. Even if you think it's dorky, it didn't cost you a dime.

Wonderfully said King. And both political parties can cheer and raise a beer to that! :lol:

:cheers1:

This Fonzie statue thing is going to happen whether anyone likes it or not. I think it's admirable that all the funds were privately raised. Its very kitschy, and quirky and I really think it will draw it's admirers. I know Minneapolis and Chicago did similar things and, as far as I know, have yet to implode from being too corny. That said, I hate it. IMHO it's a bad idea, Milwaukee has made leaps and bounds image-wise and this sets us back. But, that is my opinion, and Milwaukee is slick enough to survive...so bring on the Fonz.

People act like having the Fonz statue makes it impossible to have other statues of real Milwaukeeans, etc. We CAN do both! It isn't like we've run out of room for statues and this is the last available spot.

I urge people on here to start a fundraiser for Golda Meir or Norquist or whomever they please. We'll find a place for it.

There's already a thread for this topic. Please continue the discussion there.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=18035577#post18035577

There's already a thread for this topic. Please continue the discussion there.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=18035577#post18035577

ditto... :)

sorry guys....got swept up in the discussion

Oh, yeah...real cool, man. C'mon Brew, you may want to graduate up a size--your shorts are getting a wee bit snug. There must be bigger issues for you to lose sleep over. Why waste so much energy over this?

The last mayor to get a statue was the first mayor! At least, I know of no other statues erected to honor Milwaukee's mayors, except for Solomon Juneau -- over-looking the lake across the street from the UCT and KT condos. Other mayors have been immortalized by having their name attached to something -- Meier Festival Park, the Hoan Bridge, Zeidler Park -- but no statues as far as I know.

Anyway, let's have fun with this and give it a chance to give Downtown a boost. Even if you think it's dorky, it didn't cost you a dime.

My comments were mainly in jest Sky. As we discussed in another thread, I like hating the thing - it's cathartic.

Please let me keep hating it. Please. :)

Oh, and let's start a petition to create a John Norquist statue. But it would have to be on a bike-path to stay in the New Urbanist mantra.

^^^ I don't think we need a petition. Just fork over some cash.

Yikes!

Condo development placed into receivership
The owner of a large Milwaukee condominium project, facing major construction cost overruns and mounting debts, has filed for receivership - effectively ending its control of the development.

First Place Milwaukee LLC took that action Thursday with a filing in Milwaukee County Circuit Court. A state receivership action requires the court appointment of an outsider to run a company for the benefit of its creditors, a move somewhat similar to bankruptcy.

According to the filing, First Place owes nearly $59 million to a group of lenders and investors that helped finance the development of 115 condominiums at 106 W. Seeboth St., overlooking the confluence of the Milwaukee and Menomonee rivers. The 12-story project, known as First Place on the River, includes a riverwalk and other publicly funded improvements totaling $6.7 million.

First Place Milwaukee owes $48 million to Madison-based Anchor Bank; $9.3 million to Alliance Builders Group LLC of Waukesha; $1.1 million to Equity Trust Co. of Elyria, Ohio; and $300,000 to Peltz Properties LLC of Glendale, according to the filing.

Other creditors include Hunzinger Construction Co., which is claiming $1.06 million owed for work it did on the project.

There are additional creditors, and the total debt has not yet been calculated, said Michael Polsky, receiver for First Place Milwaukee. Polsky said the total value of First Place Milwaukee is unknown, and said the pending sale of around 70 condos would raise funds to help reduce the project's debt.

First Place Milwaukee owner Scott Fergus couldn't be reached for comment.

That's a shame, it's a beautiful property. Hopefully this doesn't deter other investors from entering the market. Do we know if this is due to poor sales or simply poor project management?

Anybody see the new February issue of M Magazine (Milwaukee's free Lifestyles Magazine)? On page 8 is a half page ad for St. John's on the Lake's proposed independent living tower. Well, let me just say...

WOW!!

That is one, nice-looking building. Yes, it may sort of blend into some of the other lakefront high rises, but it is pretty slick. And, while first mentions of this development suggested 20 stories, the rendering depicts about 22-24 floors...depending on the street level floor. The ad states that the building is already 30% reserved. If built as shown, this will make another significant addition to Prospect Ave. -- Milwaukee's "Gold Coast."

BTW, just checked their website and could find no such rendering, nor much updated info at all.

Skyking, is the rendering on the magazines website?

There's already a thread for this topic. Please continue the discussion there.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=18035577#post18035577

:) With All due respect... Please, in the future, clarify WHAT constitutes acceptable " development news " before labeling Threads. Although the proposed, " Fonz " statue, isn't a structure... It's STILL a, Milwaukee, " development ".

Skyking, is the rendering on the magazines website?

I don't know -- doubt it since it's an advertisement.

Man, I hope St. Johns is built, especially if its as cool as you say it is. Milwaukee is CHANGING!

I like how if we fill the gap, we'll create a little "mini-mini-mini-Chicago," with our own little unique, stretching the lakeshore skyline. We just need a better southern endpost.... lakeshore tower? I'm getting too optimistic...

:) With All due respect... Please, in the future, clarify WHAT constitutes acceptable " development news " before labeling Threads. Although the proposed, " Fonz " statue, isn't a structure... It's STILL a, Milwaukee, " development ".

Several other Milwaukee "developments" also have their own threads. Should they be discussed in this thread as well? No. If a project already has a thread, then that's the proper place for discussion. Seems fairly straightforward to me.

You didn't have to delete what we said, at least. It took me awhile to type that.

You didn't have to delete what we said, at least. It took me awhile to type that.

You were given advanced warning before you made your post that discussion of the Fonz statue should be moved to its proper location, yet you decided to post about it anyway. So, yes, that warrants the deletion of your post.

Several other Milwaukee "developments" also have their own threads. Should they be discussed in this thread as well? No. If a project already has a thread, then that's the proper place for discussion. Seems fairly straightforward to me.

I'm not trying to argue about It! I'm, ONLY, stating that It's easy to perceive THIS is an open, " development ", thread. Development has many meanings. THIS thread's NOT labeled " Milwaukee Building Development News " or even " Milwaukee Skyscraper Development News ". Perhaps, You should consider renaming It Milwaukee BUILDING Developments so We won't violate It's purpose!

ALSO: Understand that Your WARNING occurred before I clicked onto THIS link. I was unaware You posted It or I wouldn't have violated Your, " development ", rules.

You were given advanced warning before you made your post that discussion of the Fonz statue should be moved to its proper location, yet you decided to post about it anyway. So, yes, that warrants the deletion of your post.

Yes but you didn't say you were going to delete posts if your suggestion wasn't followed. And yes, I took what you said as a suggestion, not a warning. Warnings should always include the posible courses of action that might be taken if violations occur. Besides, there are other development threads in this forum where there is talk about anything and everything even though another thread already is talking about those things, I know, I lurk alot. But, oh well, your the boss applesauce!

It's just the fact that some people like it extremely strict on this forum, which irks me a little bit...but oh well!

Paule,

Doesn't it strike you as disrespectful to blatantly make a post after you were kindly asked to move the discussion to another thread?

___

Brewcity,

One of my most important duties as a moderator is to keep discussions on topic and in their proper places. I'm apologize if that comes off as harsh.

___

I don't want to monopolize any more of this thread's time with this discussion, so please feel free to pm me with any complaints. Now, back to development news.

Hydrogen, seriously though. Seriously.

Was it necessary to REMOVE IT? It's just incredibly strict. Proper discussion should be relatively loose and relaxed, not with this ultra-strict "rules rules rules" moderator looming over.

Our discussion was hardly that bad or off-topic.. it just seems like you are too "rules rules rules" to the point where it becomes kind of obnoxious, like when (I think it was you) banned me for a month when I said I was underwhelmed by Minneapolis, but thought it was a great city.

Anyway, you could have least moved it for me.... but back onto Milwaukee.

What happened to that one project along the river that kind of resembled lake point tower, with that curved side? Is that still alive at all?

Edit: I just saw the part about PMing you. I thought it was a signature at first and ignored it. Do not delete this.

What happened to that one project along the river that kind of resembled lake point tower, with that curved side? Is that still alive at all?


That was an earlier proposal for redeveloping the Chase Tower Garage site, and it has been dead for quite some time now.

However, an entirely new (and uglier) conceptual proposal was made for the same site last year by different developers working with the new Chase owners. Of course, no anchor tenants...no financing...no building...

Yikes!

Condo development placed into receivership
The owner of a large Milwaukee condominium project, facing major construction cost overruns and mounting debts, has filed for receivership - effectively ending its control of the development.

This is not good. This could be taken as a sign by other lenders and potential investors that the condo market in Milwaukee is too risky right now. It's bad enough with the housing market tanking, but when investors take a $39M bath that doesn't bode well for future developments.

I think we very well might be seeing a pause in Milwaukee's long Downtown housing boom. Hopefully not the end of the boom altogether.

Sounds like this delay has to do more with the fact construciton costs were a lot higher than they expected, more than anything.

Much like Capitol West in Madison, which had to be scaled best.

The advertisement for Saint Johns is also on page 7A of today's Milwaukee Journal-Seninel.

The front columns look a little hokey but I like how it's slimmer facing the lake.

I count 22 floors, plus any underground parking.

Where exactly is St. Johns may I ask? Is it directly against "the north skyline" or kind of in between the two?

As for renderings, this is the only one I could find. I assume it has changed?

http://www.biztimes.com/nf/uploads/Image/St.JohnsRendering.jpg

haven't seen the latest ad, but assuming that the design hasn't changed, here is a website with 3 renderings.. one i haven't seen before:

http://www.vjscs.com/projects/senior-living-facilities/saint-john-s-on-the-lake--the-town-center.php

I know what being a moderator is like. I was a moderator for a very busy forum. The forum was about christianity and theology! Talk about disputes, argueing, and fighting!, LOL, christians sometimes are not the most civil people you will want to meet. Um...so I understand i_am_hydrogen position.

This is important enough to talk about, so i_am_hydrogen, you will be hearing from me shortly.:)

Otherwise, I just want to say that I have been a loyal Miller drinker for many years and if the new HQs ends up in Dallas or Denver I will stop drinking it. I'm serious, I still can't stomack Budbarfer but I will the Beast if I have to.

I have emailed Miller with my intentions...

Dallas sucks! It makes me sick that Dallas is even being considered.

Hey, you guys crack me up. I live in the Phoenix area and all we have for a historical sit-com is Alice! The most memorable character on that show is "Kiss my grits" Flo. C'mon! I'd take the Fonz any day. He was cool. He was short, not good-looking, and looked 30 in his H.S. days but hey, we all bought that he was cool. He was the Fonz!

Fonzie isn't just Milwaukee's. He belongs to the whole country. Who can't think back to that show and laugh, at least the early years of it. Way cooler than Alice. Go Fonz!

Actually, I'd like it better if they had the whole crew: Fonzie, Richie, Ralph, and Potsy. Hee Hee. Fonz should be on his bike. I love it.

Oops, I posted The Fonz or Flo in the wrong thread. I'm new here. Won't happen again.

Haven't seen any mention of it here lately, but it looks like the small project of (townhouses?) at the corner of Kilbourn & Cass is mostly up. It's obviously far from finished, but it's good to see one less ugly surface lot in this part of town.

Hey someone help me out...someone mentioned on one of these threads that a row of apartments in Milwaukee is a "dingo" or dingbat" or something odd like that style. I can't remember the name of the style or the apartments. And now I can't find the post. I wanted to mention it on an Ohio forum that I'm on. Any info would be great.

If Miller/Coors SOMEHOW gets located in Milwaukee (which would be GREAT news), I imagine they'll need a lot of new office space... won't they?

If Miller/Coors SOMEHOW gets located in Milwaukee (which would be GREAT news), I imagine they'll need a lot of new office space... won't they?

That's doubtful, considering it's a consolidation, and not an expansion. So they'll be looking to reduce or eliminate redundant corporate/management positions, as opposed to growing. Miller went through large cutbacks a few years ago too, so they'll probably look to using up any vacant office space they have that exists on their campus, rather than looking at building or leasing anything new.

Hey someone help me out...someone mentioned on one of these threads that a row of apartments in Milwaukee is a "dingo" or dingbat" or something odd like that style. I can't remember the name of the style or the apartments. And now I can't find the post. I wanted to mention it on an Ohio forum that I'm on. Any info would be great.

Check http://milwaukeedevelopment.blogspot.com/2007/12/1530-north-jackson-updated-dingbat.html, a site maintained by one of our other forumers.

on http://www.workshoparchitects.com/ there is a kilbourn / van buren development shown. does anyone know any details about this? is this just a general plan or a development that is actually being worked on? I am assuming it is a new land development.

Wow, that looks great. I like the Holton and Brown rendering too.

And thanks looksee, that exactly the article I was looking for.

on http://www.workshoparchitects.com/ there is a kilbourn / van buren development shown.

Yes, it's a proposal being worked on from New Land.

That is an intersection in need of some major bulk. I think those buildings would fit great, especially if they turn out like CityGreen...which looks great...at least from the Marshall side.

Great looking buildings. The only downside being that I don't want to have to go all the way out to Bluemound and Highway 100 to get Edwardos...

Great looking buildings. The only downside being that I don't want to have to go all the way out to Bluemound and Highway 100 to get Edwardos...

They closed the milwaukee location months ago

MacArthur plan gets New Building (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/02/04/story1.html)

Renewed plans to redevelop Mac-Arthur Square in downtown Milwaukee include consolidating the city of Milwaukee's Municipal Court building and Milwaukee County's Safety Building into a new building to make room for more development.

A new building, co-owned by the city and county, could save money because of energy management and other operational efficiency improvements, said Rocky Marcoux, commissioner for the Milwaukee Department of City Development. The Municipal Court building, 951 N. James Lovell Drive, also houses the Milwaukee Police Administration, while the Safety Building, 821 W. State St., houses the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department and District Attorney's Office.

$75 million plan offered for downtown site
A proposed $75 million development at N. 6th and W. State streets that would include student housing, offices, retail space and a parking ramp won preliminary endorsement today from a Milwaukee County Board committee.

The "Civic Center" project was backed by the board's Economic and Community Development Committee on a 7-0 vote. It would sit on prime county-owned land now used as a parking lot that's close to the courthouse, Milwaukee Area Technical College, the Milwaukee Theatre and the Midwest Airlines Center.

The New Vision Development Co. would get an option of up to one year to buy the 1.89-acre property for $3.1 million, if the County Board approves the deal Feb. 7.

The development calls for a seven-story residential apartment tower aimed at students. Its proximity to MATC, Marquette University, Milwaukee School of Engineering and the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee should attract plenty of tenants, project spokesman Steven Stewart said. The tower, housing 450 students, would be built on the north side of the site, Stewart said. A second tower on the south side of the site might be added later, he said.

Stewart said the apartments would be affordable for students, but he did not say how much the rent would be.

Other features of the project include a 600-stall parking ramp, 50,000 square feet of retail space and an "academic tower" with 58,000 square feet of space for offices, classrooms and laboratories that could be leased by MATC, Stewart said. Spokesmen for New Vision Developers said they hoped to lease 25% of the space in the complex to MATC, but acknowledged they had not yet secured a commitment for that.

An MATC spokesman wasn't immediately available for comment.

The ground floor would include a sit-down restaurant, coffee shop, bank and other retail, according to the project proposal.




Nice! Get rid of another parking lot!

I get a kick out of the description of a "seven-story residential apartment tower." Are you serious?! Who wrote this "press release?" (Obviously, somebody vertically-challenged) And, since when did seven stories constitute a tower? I don't know what the official definition of a tower is, but it ain't seven stories! I think a "tower" needs to be at least 15 stories - maybe 20. Sorry, but seven stories is NOT a tower. :ohno:

Once again, looks like the "city planners" were hard at work on putting this beauty to bed! There needed to be a much better development on this parcel.
Pitiful. :ohno:

Ahem King, but Aurora St. Luke's has two buildings that they consider "towers" - both buildings have 12 floors but look at the heights on both of them. They're completely different.

Ahem King, but Aurora St. Luke's has two buildings that they consider "towers" - both buildings have 12 floors but look at the heights on both of them. They're completely different.

Thanks, Brew. But, those aren't towers, either!! Although, one could argue that the new St. Luke's hospital addition is pretty tall for 12 floors. But, I still don't consider it a tower. (I was a patient on the 11th flloor a couple of years ago with a darn nice view, but I didn't think I was in a tower.) We need a definition of what constitutes a "tower."

Therefore, beginning with this post on this thread, henceforth a "tower" must be a minimum of 20 stories/floors to be properly considered a tower. No questions, ifs, ands or buts. Any questions? :lol:

Wow - well my family also had a patient room 2 years ago with a view of Downtown Milwaukee, and well...it's the tallest building on the south side, and is probably as tall as one of those condo towers downtown.

What do you consider a tower again? 15-20 stories? I think Aurora St. Luke's Heart Care Tower would classify as one then

Bah, you guys are getting nit-picky! a tower is all relative to the context that it is in. Viva la 7 story tower! :banana:

Seriously, it's all relative. The "Tower" of Londond is only 4 stories and 90 feet tall. And then there are places like the Merchandise Mart which is 25 sotries tall, but are just so massive that they lack a tower-like aesthetic. The new Dudley Tower is Wausau is only 11 stories, but it's 241 feet tall...

So, has anyone seen any renderings? I haven't. So I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Okay, I'll make an ammendment to the new law on what height constitutes a tower in Milwaukee: 200 feet. Not 20 stories, but 200 feet. That is the official new minimum for a tower. You cannot refer to a building as a "tower" unless it is at least 200 feet tall.

Of course, this is a relative number depending on where you live. In Chicago, 200 feet is hardly a tower, more like a goose bump on the landscape. However, a 200-foot building in Baraboo is most definitely a tower...if not a skyscraper. So, in Milwaukee, it is that 200 feet officially designates a building as a "tower." Done.

A) Who gives a crap (besides you)?

B) Who put you in charge of deciding what is and "official" tower?

If they want to call their 7-story building a tower and that makes them happy, good for them.

Tower (n): a structure taller than its diameter; can stand alone or be attached to a larger building

I guess my house is a tower then...

So, what's the opposite of a tower? A ziggaraut? A yert? A wigwam?

oh jesus, you guys argue too much.

oh jesus, you guys argue too much.

No kidding! I think it's hilarious :banana:
But this is the way this stuff goes...in this case, I throw something out there that is meant to be bait, and WHAM! People take it as gospel, hook, line and sinker and get all :nuts: over it (Danillo).

Yeah, MKEunseen, I like yurt - that's a great new word for the day:

http://www.highroad.org/ranch%20images/yurt/yurt-wallouter.jpg

Thanks. Milwaukee has many yurts, including the 7-story yurt proposed for
6th & State.

...in this case, I throw something out there that is meant to be bait, and WHAM! People take it as gospel, hook, line and sinker and get all :nuts: over it (Danillo)..

You are dumb!






(waits for him to take the bait)


But seriously, if you meant that comment as 'bait,' that's perhaps more detestable, because that implies that you wrote that post with the sole intent of starting an argument. Cut it out.

Ahem King, but Aurora St. Luke's has two buildings that they consider "towers" - both buildings have 12 floors but look at the heights on both of them. They're completely different.

hi there brewcity...actually, I work at St. Luke's and we do consider the new patient care tower a "tower". The other building your referring to is the "knisely building" which was built in the 70's with 4 stories. Floors 5-11 were added with an addition in the 80's I believe. Not correcting anyone..just a little history. BTW, Aurora is planning a second tower to mirror the first directly north of the current tower sometime in the future...incorporating the physicians office building that is currently there. As far as towers are concerned, I tend to believe the PCT at Luke's has enough impact on the south side regardless of the number of floors. But remember, there are 7 floors of parking beneath it. I also think skyking has a valid point....that project is not tall enough for that area.

hi there brewcity...actually, I work at St. Luke's and we do consider the new patient care tower a "tower". The other building your referring to is the "knisely building" which was built in the 70's with 4 stories. Floors 5-11 were added with an addition in the 80's I believe. Not correcting anyone..just a little history. BTW, Aurora is planning a second tower to mirror the first directly north of the current tower sometime in the future...incorporating the physicians office building that is currently there. As far as towers are concerned, I tend to believe the PCT at Luke's has enough impact on the south side regardless of the number of floors. But remember, there are 7 floors of parking beneath it. I also think skyking has a valid point....that project is not tall enough for that area.

I'm pretty certain that the Knisely (Pronounced "NEYEzely," right?) building is 9 floors, and the top three were added in the early '90s. I grew up very near there, and, in fact, my grandfather died in that building on the 9th floor in 1995.

Edit: You can see where the newer floors are, as the windows are larger, and the floors appear to be wider above the 5th.

Anyone have any more info on the New proposal for Mac Aurthur Square mentioned in the business journal this week?????

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/02/04/story1.html

Something about the city and county combining buildings and tearing down old buildings!!!!!!!

Anyone have any more info on the New proposal for Mac Aurthur Square mentioned in the business journal this week?????

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/02/04/story1.html

Something about the city and county combining buildings and tearing down old buildings!!!!!!!

Basically, that's it.

Right now, it is only an idea being floated--sort of to gauge the interest of government decision-makers, and to explore different possibilities of re-imagining the MacArthur Square area. So there aren't really any developers involved, or buildings designed, or any other kinds of commitments being made at this point in time. Though the City and County will be looking into the idea in the coming months.

The concept being suggested by the City as part of the ongoing master planning work for MacArthur Square, which itself is part of the ongoing Downtown Plan Update efforts...all of which is supposed to be revealed later this year. By consolidating City and County services into a single building, the Police Administration Building and the Public Safety Building could be removed (or perhaps even remodeled) for some other kind of development in the future.

It's quite a wise idea, and it's good to know the City and County will at least be investigating it further to see how feasible it could be.

You are dumb!






(waits for him to take the bait)


But seriously, if you meant that comment as 'bait,' that's perhaps more detestable, because that implies that you wrote that post with the sole intent of starting an argument. Cut it out.

Down, boy.

Looks like you are difficult to please. Sorry, that's not my job. Can this thread (or any) not also be a place for some lighthearted and witty repartee -- without people becoming unhinged? Lighten up, my friend, and :)

I know this has nothing to do with Milwaukee development but I have to let you all know - my like-minded online friends - that I'm moving to North Carolina next month. You should also know that my camera was stolen a few weeks back and that's why I haven't posted any new pictures as of late.

It's time for me to make a dramatic shift in my life... and that involves leaving the city of Milwaukee. I never thought I'd do it but sure enough, I'm doing it. Time to follow the dream. :) Cya!

Good luck, Mark. I've always enjoyed your photos on here.

I know this has nothing to do with Milwaukee development but I have to let you all know - my like-minded online friends - that I'm moving to North Carolina next month. You should also know that my camera was stolen a few weeks back and that's why I haven't posted any new pictures as of late.

It's time for me to make a dramatic shift in my life... and that involves leaving the city of Milwaukee. I never thought I'd do it but sure enough, I'm doing it. Time to follow the dream. :) Cya!

Wow, you will be missed, especially your photography :)! Would it still be possible to get some of your prints in larger sizes before you leave?

EDIT - Ahh, I am seeing your page now. I'll have to order some.

Hope that you find your way back to Milwaukee soon. Good luck!

You will be missed. Good luck in NC, and looking forward to seeing the quality Charlotte and NC landscape photos soon.

Well, well, well...Mr. MilwaukeeMark is headed to "Tobacco Road." Well, la-dee-frickin-da...don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out of town! :runaway:

Just kidding, folks.

Mark, your contributions and photos WILL be missed. Best wishes on the next leg of your journey. You were good. :cheers1:

Mark> Hey your input will definitely be missed.... but please don't tell me you are moving to Charlotte?

Mark> Hey your input will definitely be missed.... but please don't tell me you are moving to Charlotte?

Haha no, I'm moving to Raleigh actually.

Thanks everyone! :)

Wow, you will be missed, especially your photography :)! Would it still be possible to get some of your prints in larger sizes before you leave?

EDIT - Ahh, I am seeing your page now. I'll have to order some.

Yes, please do! I need all the extra cash I can get to support the move. I also need to buy a new camera because mine was stolen out of my car in the Alterra at the Lake parking lot a few weeks back...

Best of luck, Mark...:)

Yes, please do! I need all the extra cash I can get to support the move. I also need to buy a new camera because mine was stolen out of my car in the Alterra at the Lake parking lot a few weeks back...
Milwaukee is going to dearly miss you but I hope you aren't saying good-bye to us. As soon as you get on your feet down there I hope to see you back to posting again. Sorry to hear about your camera...

Adios, Mark.

It was a pleasure meeting you in the midst of a snowstorm that loong time ago. I hope you the best, and will make Milwaukee your home again in the future. When you do, send me an e-mail!

Your favorite suburbanite :lol:

Good luck, Milwaukee Mark, and thank you for showing us your pictures. Maybe other people on this forum will fill your void, and in the process, show you pictures of Milwaukee's progress from a distance - like you've done so well for other expats like me.

havent posted in awhile
but I will miss your photos
I hope that you post in the north carolina threads
and let us know when you do
you really are a good photographer

sorry your camera was stolen too :(

I don't think we have heard the last of Milwaukee Mark. Perhaps his new location will help bring an outside perspective of how Milwaukee is viewed by others. I look forward to his comments and showing us what Raleigh is like through his keen eye. Thanks for all of your contributions. Look forward to more.

I don't think we have heard the last of Milwaukee Mark. Perhaps his new location will help bring an outside perspective of how Milwaukee is viewed by others. I look forward to his comments and showing us what Raleigh is like through his keen eye. Thanks for all of your contributions. Look forward to more.

Oh, I'll be around. This is the internet, after all. Just because I'm moving doesn't mean I won't keep tabs on Milwaukee development and contribute my two cents from time to time. And yes, it will be interesting to offer an "outside" perspective on Milwaukee, Wisconsin and the Midwest in general. I'm looking foward to talking to people about how great it is here and all that Milwaukee has to offer. I really look forward to challenging people's perceptions of the Midwest.

Thanks again for all the positive words of encouragement and interest in my photography. As stated before, I can use it more than ever at this point in my life. For anyone who is interested, I'll offer a 20% discount on any prints you order through my website - markofphotography.com (http://www.markofphotography.com). Simply mention that you're from skyscrapercity when you fill out the contact form.

Nice to see Appleton on the mast head above. Looks pretty nice. Anyway - is it a job that is taking you to Raleigh M-Mark? Or did you just get fed up with all of the snow this winter? I moved from the Midwest (Indy) to Tampa about a year ago - and I'm ready to move back. Tampa is nice to visit for a week in February - but is lacking quite a bit in urban culture, density and downtown attractiveness. This web site is a nice way to keep in touch with what is going on in your home town from afar. Hope you enjoy Raleigh. It'll be interesting to see how you like living down there.

Jeeeeez, I hope something happens around here pretty soon so we can dry our eyes and get past the MMark tributes already. No offense to the future Tar Heel, but can we move on already? Bye, man :hi: :cry:

I know I just lurk, but Mark, I have to ask you how you achieve such vibrant colors in your photography. I bought a SLR over the summer to teach myself how to take photos cause i appreciate them so much, but I can't get anything to look anything like yours, color wise or composition. Just had to give you two thumbs up. Send me a PM with any helpful hints ;)

I know I just lurk, but Mark, I have to ask you how you achieve such vibrant colors in your photography. I bought a SLR over the summer to teach myself how to take photos cause i appreciate them so much, but I can't get anything to look anything like yours, color wise or composition. Just had to give you two thumbs up. Send me a PM with any helpful hints ;)

I'm pretty sure what you're going for is HDR photography. Google it up.

I don't think i have ever been so sad for someone i have never meet and on the internet saying he is leaving a forum.:) Your pictures are amazing and we truely lost a great photographer here, but something tells me MM that you'll be back! Good Luck i mean its gonna be boring taking pictures of that glass skyline :tongue2:

I don't think i have ever been so sad for someone i have never meet and on the internet saying he is leaving a forum.:) Your pictures are amazing and we truely lost a great photographer here, but something tells me MM that you'll be back! Good Luck i mean its gonna be boring taking pictures of that glass skyline :tongue2:
My sentiments exactly but lets be clear about this, we don't want you, Mark, to come back because you have to or rather beaten and in despair. We want you to come back to milwaukee because you will want to afdter making a success out of yourself! I think that you will...

Congrats on your move Mark, good luck, and thanks for to photography advice.

Jesus, Mary, Joseph...ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!:gaah: Get me off of this farewell tour bus!!:hammer: If this keeps up much longer, I'm gonna :puke:
Can we let the man move on? He knows how to stay in touch...it's called the i-n-t-e-r-n-e-t. We've all embarrassed MMark enough by slobering all over him -- now let him rest in peace. :goodnight

Ok, rant's over. Everybody back on the bus. Godspeed, MilwaukeeMark. We shall never forget you...or, at least your photography. :okay:

Thank so much everyone for your encouragement and kind words. :)

Skyking is right though, let's move on to the focus of this forum... development!

Feel free to email me at mark.c.cullen@gmail.com if you want to talk about photos and if you REALLY like my work, buy some prints! As I said earlier, I could use the money more than ever at this point. :)

http://www.markofphotography.com

http://cll.bizjournals.com/story_image/110726-400-0.jpg?rev=2
Mequon firm buys 3rd Ward fire boathouse for offices (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/02/18/story5.html)

Dominion Medical Management Inc. is moving its corporate headquarters from Mequon to the former Milwaukee Fire Department boathouse in the city of Milwaukee's Third Ward.

Dominion Medical purchased the 5,500-square-foot boathouse, 105 N. Water St., from Bruce and Joellen Johnson for $1.5 million and will renovate the building. The Johnsons used the two-story building as an office for their architectural firm known as BDC Design.

http://www.onmilwaukee.com/dining/articles/brueggersnorth.html
There had been some debate about what would be going into the old gas station plot on North/Prospect. Apparently Bruegger's Bagels is one of them. Not sure if the rumors of Noodles/Chins will also be true? Is there a link to what this project will look like?!

I just realized that emporis lists University Tower as completed.

I gotta say that I am not a fan of the crown, as it just looks uncompleted to me. Anyone else agree, or do you guys like it?

The part I hate most about the crown is that the silver that they put up the back doesn't match the silver on the front of the crown, so there's a clear vertical line running up at the top. And I HATE that window washing support bar sticking out the top. I love the tower from the front, but I agree with you, rgolch, the it does look imcomplete.

I actually like the crown on top of UCT. It's a heck of a lot better than Kilbourn Tower's single red light... haha, wtf is that?

I can see where you're coming from with it looking incomplete though... I thought the same thing for quite a while. It's grown on me though, just like the building's proximity to Kilbourn Tower. I hated that at first but now I rather like it.

All-in-all, it's an absolutely beautiful building and we're lucky to have it in Milwaukee.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/210/528288836_b818048648.jpg

I just realized that emporis lists University Tower as completed.

I gotta say that I am not a fan of the crown, as it just looks uncompleted to me. Anyone else agree, or do you guys like it?

Totally agree. I did a double-take when I saw it was "completed"; the crown as well as the back part of the building. The back "spine" of the building is this silver-looking crap that looks like insulation.

Am I the only person that LOVES *BOTH* towers? :omg:

I like them.

Am I the only person that LOVES *BOTH* towers? :omg:
Except for the incomplete-looking crown, I like both quite a bit. I don't mind their proximity to each other, either.

The two towers are amazingly fantastic additions to our skyline regardless of the "incomplete" crown on UCT. There should be no doubt about that... but if there is, here's proof:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1019/529177125_b06b19ffc8.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/205/487557959_f8dc4769a8.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1206/528207846_6f387bdd17.jpg

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this rendering of St. John's on the Lake...

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/2364/sonthelake009qs5.jpg

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this rendering of St. John's on the Lake...

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/2364/sonthelake009qs5.jpg

I really like this building.. Will be a nice addition to the neighborhood.

Also: http://www.milwaukeepalomar.com/index.html
It is the website for the Sydney Hih building. Not much there yet.

And I have been meaning to post this but always forget. Whats up with the huge windowless wall that faces downtown on the staybridge hotel? Hopefully the back half of the hotel includes windows?

A little bland and unimaginative, but certainly pretty.

A little bland and unimaginative, but certainly pretty.

I think it's a rather nice building actually. Especially when you consider it's a retirement home!!

Am I the only person that LOVES *BOTH* towers? :omg:

Oh I like both of them. Kilbourn tower always reminds me of the Citadel from Half-Life 2 :lol:. However, I still think the crown could've been much better on UCT.

A little bland and unimaginative, but certainly pretty.

I think that's how I would describe (minus "pretty") the original building next to it, which this new one will hopefully obscure.
I hope there's also work done to improve their Kane Pl. side at ground level. Right now it's the completely unshielded trash dumping and pickup zone, but it faces, and I would say degrades, what may be the city's most successfully accomplished high rise residential block on Summit Ave.


"Summit Avenue and Shorecrest Hotel", 1975
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Libraries, Harold Mayer Collection
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/summitave1975.jpg

I love both of the towers too, and I think they're fantastic from the lake side.
But here's the side I struggle with:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/ajknee/UCTCrown.jpg

I wish the circular top could've been completely round, instead it has a slight notch in it. And at that point there's a vertical line where the shades of silver don't match.
The other thing I HATE are those stupid window washing things...can't they put up something retractable, that could be hidden?

Am I the only person that LOVES *BOTH* towers? :omg:

No, I'm sure many like both. I like both because...what options are there?
They're up. They're done. They're a nice addition to the skyline.
Now, would I have rather seen them built away from each other?

YES!!

These building take density to a ridiculous level, especially in a city with a very spread-out skyline to begin with. There is really only one view where these siamese twins look good together: looking due west from the lake (ie. MilwaukeeMark's first photo above). Otherwise, they look attached, as if one building from most other vantage points (ie. MilwaukeeMark's second photo).

I thought, despite some late redesigns and materials change (read: cheaper), the Kilbourne Tower looked good all by itself. The KT was designed as a building with views from all four sides. The UCT was designed, of course, to handle the obstructed view to the north. So, considering the space and footprint available, the UCT looks splendid.

Given Milwaukee's lack of skyscrapers and density, I would have preferred these two towers be built at least a block or two apart. They are intriguing together, yet I think their architectural assets could've been better appreciated if they weren't joined at the hip.

I love both of the towers too, and I think they're fantastic from the lake side.
But here's the side I struggle with:
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f99/ajknee/UCTCrown.jpg

I wish the circular top could've been completely round, instead it has a slight notch in it. And at that point there's a vertical line where the shades of silver don't match.
The other thing I HATE are those stupid window washing things...can't they put up something retractable, that could be hidden?

You know, from this angle, the crown resembles a smoke stack on the Titantic or Queen Mary.

You know, from this angle, the crown resembles a smoke stack on the Titantic or Queen Mary.

Does anyone know if the crown/stack is purely architectural, or whether it serves any other function? The past few comments have sparked my curiosity.

Does anyone know if the crown/stack is purely architectural, or whether it serves any other function? The past few comments have sparked my curiosity.

The crown is actually the terrace swimming pool. Every so often, you can see some water splash over the side. That's why the doorman always has an umbrella open -- just in case.

Seriously, that is a good question. My guess is that it is purely ornamental. But, I could be wrong -- even though that's already happened once this year.

It's a cigar lounge. http://www.statsite.co.uk/assets/images/cigar02.gif
Private elevator. Members only. Don't let on.
http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/images/berkman_tea_and_cigars.jpg

Does anyone know if the crown/stack is purely architectural, or whether it serves any other function? The past few comments have sparked my curiosity.

It's probably hiding HVAC stuff.

That tall metalclad protuberance at the top of the UTC is likely the elevator and stair enclosure to rooftop gardens for Mandel and Marcus penthouse units. Elevators also require an overrun, such that the top stop is often 1.5 floors tall, which this appears to be. Wouldn't be surprised if it also hides HVAC equip. as eMatt indicates, and as the window washing gantry cranes suggest.

Nice forum, look forward to reading more about our City's development.

Welcome to the family, Wright.

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/marxbrothers-harpo-chico-groucho.jpg

Something old to pass the time 'till something new comes along: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/wi/milwaukee/postcards/ppcs-milwaukee.html

A friend alerted me to the site, which has a few dozen more like this:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/wi/milwaukee/postcards/eagles.jpg

Wow. What a crime what has happened to the Eagles Club. It could be a lot worse, of course, but the current owner doesn't seem to have a lot of respect for the history and character of the building. The Rave is a decent venue but the Eagles Ballroom is a crime against humanity. Horrible venue, which is a shame because, as you can see from that old postcard, the Eagles Club was once very nice.

Wow. What a crime what has happened to the Eagles Club. It could be a lot worse, of course, but the current owner doesn't seem to have a lot of respect for the history and character of the building. The Rave is a decent venue but the Eagles Ballroom is a crime against humanity. Horrible venue, which is a shame because, as you can see from that old postcard, the Eagles Club was once very nice.

True... I was in it a few weeks ago... The interior is an absolute dump :ohno:

I've always wanted to see the inside of that place. I hear that it's a giant two-story oval. But they've never had a show there that I'd be willing to pay more than a dime to see. So, until then I'll just have to take peoples' word for it.

Wow. What a crime what has happened to the Eagles Club. It could be a lot worse, of course, but the current owner doesn't seem to have a lot of respect for the history and character of the building. The Rave is a decent venue but the Eagles Ballroom is a crime against humanity. Horrible venue, which is a shame because, as you can see from that old postcard, the Eagles Club was once very nice.

It really shows how much surface parking lots affect a whole building.

On the bus I saw two large cranes at the lot at Knapp and Franklin, just next to prospect. Is anything exciting going up there??

On the bus I saw two large cranes at the lot at Knapp and Franklin, just next to prospect. Is anything exciting going up there??

The disappointingly-ugly Breakwater Condominiums (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=474842) is going up on that site.

Wow, Markitect... thats about the strongest personal opinion I remember you ever giving about anything. :)

It really shows how much surface parking lots affect a whole building.

I dont get it... :dunno:

I dont get it... :dunno:

He's saying that a nice lawn with decent landscaping looks a heck of a lot better than a giant, flat, paved surface lot.

And I have been meaning to post this but always forget. Whats up with the huge windowless wall that faces downtown on the staybridge hotel? Hopefully the back half of the hotel includes windows?

Exit, the Staybridge is being built up to its southern property line. Unfortunately, building code requires that no windows be built along the property line for fire code issues, because it is possible that the Bar Louie building could be torn down at some later date and a taller building put up against the property line. Yes, it looks bad, but I believe on the top few floors they can, and will, have windows.

Exit, the Staybridge is being built up to its southern property line. Unfortunately, building code requires that no windows be built along the property line for fire code issues, because it is possible that the Bar Louie building could be torn down at some later date and a taller building put up against the property line. Yes, it looks bad, but I believe on the top few floors they can, and will, have windows.

What? So if a new building is built next to an old building in Milwaukee, it can't have windows that face the old building? Is that the reason UCT doesn't have windows on the north facade?

What? So if a new building is built next to an old building in Milwaukee, it can't have windows that face the old building? Is that the reason UCT doesn't have windows on the north facade?

if it is built right up to the property line, usually. It is to prevent fires from jumping from building to building. there will literally be no gap between staybridge and bar louie.

i don't think uct is built up to the property line, since there is space between the two towers. uct doesn't have windows because they were looking to save some $.

Okay. I just drove past the Staybridge to see for myself because I haven't seen the windowless wall yet. Result: I don't buy your reasoning. The section of Bar Louie that actually butts up against the Staybridge is one floor. If you count the taller section just to the south, Bar Louie rises two floors. As it stands right now, Staybridge has about eight floors complete, none of which have windows.

I'm not trying to be overly negative - after all, I think the Staybridge Hotel is a fantastic addition to the Milwaukee building repertoire. However, I don't understand how the wall with the best views could be solid concrete. Do you happen to know where I can look up this particular fire code? I'm having trouble finding it.

To my knowledge, it is part of the Wisconsin Building Code. It doesn't matter how tall the building next to it is, it is the fact that it is built right on the property line. One must assume, I suppose, that the Bar Louie building may be torn down at a later date and replaced with a taller building. There would then be probems because of the windows being right on the property line.

I know it sounds dumb, but I didnt' make the rules! Markitect may know more about this.

They're only done with a fifth of the length of the building... Maybe there are some windows further down that aren't built yet? Does anyone have renderings of the backside?

To my knowledge, it is part of the Wisconsin Building Code. It doesn't matter how tall the building next to it is, it is the fact that it is built right on the property line. One must assume, I suppose, that the Bar Louie building may be torn down at a later date and replaced with a taller building. There would then be probems because of the windows being right on the property line.

I know it sounds dumb, but I didnt' make the rules! Markitect may know more about this.

I still don't get it. Take Kilbourn Tower as an example... the building was built right up against the property line of University Club. At the time, there was the potential for another building to be built directly to the south.. so why didn't they have a windowless wall on the south side? If this fire code is the way I understand it currently, no buildings in Milwaukee should have windows.

Again, I'm not trying to attack... just trying to understand this fire code policy a bit better.

It doesn't matter how tall the building next to it is, it is the fact that it is built right on the property line. One must assume, I suppose, that the Bar Louie building may be torn down at a later date and replaced with a taller building.

Yep. And that potential future tall building could have it's wall abut the Staybridge's wall. So it doesn't make sense allow the Staybridge to have windows on that particular side if someday those very windows would be blocked by an abutting building.


MilwaukeeMark]Is that the reason UCT doesn't have windows on the north facade?

The situation with KT and UCT is a bit different because there is a gap between both buildings--so they do not have abutting walls, nor are both buildings built right up to the property line. UCT was designed so that the interior spaces along its northern wall are things that don't really need windows (closets, bathrooms, etc.) because any kind of room that would need a window would create a situation where UCT residents could look right into the units of KT across the way, and vice versa. So not only was it a privacy thing, but it also was a money-saving thing.

Had UCT been redesigned so that the building's positioning within the site would not have been so close to the edge of the property line, thus widening the gap between the two towers (like KT's developers had suggested, which was rebuffed), it could have been possible for UCT's northern facade to have windows.

It's unfortunate that the fire code is based on hypotheticals. I can slightly understand the reasoning but at the rate Milwaukee gets things built (with the exception of the Breakwater), it'll be many years before Bar Louie is replaced with this "potential" building. Why wouldn't they simply move the building back two feet? Now we've got 14 floors of concrete staring out into downtown.

^Agreed. It is going to be an eyesore coming from the south on Water for many years, potentially forever.

It's unfortunate that the fire code is based on hypotheticals. I can slightly understand the reasoning but at the rate Milwaukee gets things built (with the exception of the Breakwater), it'll be many years before Bar Louie is replaced with this "potential" building.

This is the way it is pretty much everywhere, not just Milwaukee.

Why wouldn't they simply move the building back two feet?

Because then there'd be tiny gaps between every single building all over the place, and does not maximize the available land. It also makes for a very discontinuous streetscape, and creates long, dark, dirty, potentially hazardous useless spaces between buildings.

A better idea, however, would have been to design the building with a light court/light well, which would allow the front sections of any two adjacent buildings to abut each other and have the middle/rear of the buildings set back from the side property line to create an open space in the middle of the block around which the walls would be able to have windows (think of it like a building with squared-off C-shaped floor plate being built next to another building--the light court is the "hole" in the middle). There are a number of older, taller buildings like that around Downtown. The disadvantage to a developer, however, is that it sacrifices space that could otherwise be leased out to make money.

Now we've got 14 floors of concrete staring out into downtown.

All the more reason for some developer to look at it, and decide to propose a new adjacent building next door to cover it up. Or, at the very least, a blank canvas for someone to do something temporarily artsy with the wall in the meantime (see the Richard Haas trompe l'oeil painting on the eastern side of the old Grand Theater building on Wisconsin Avenue) or the great old neon advertisements/clocks that once graced the blank western facade of the Wisconsin Tower). A highly-exposed windowless facade doesn't have to be completely blank.

Gleischman to build $5 million Milwaukee Industrial project (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/02/25/newscolumn1.html)

Milwaukee developer Mark Gleischman is constructing seven industrial and office buildings in the Riverworks Center corridor that will be valued at more than $5 million.

Gleischman Sumner Co. Inc.'s Fratney Commons development will provide up to 70,000 square feet of industrial space on a 4.5-acre parcel the firm acquired from the Milwaukee Redevelopment Authority in 2005 for $200,000.

"Our business model is to provide flexible buildings that are not available in this market," Gleischman said.

The cluster of buildings on the southwest corner of West Vienna Avenue and North Fratney Street will range in size from 5,000 to 10,000 square feet and will be sold to small business owners who then share the cost of maintaining the small industrial complex's parking lot and landscaped green space. A Milwaukee engineering firm is currently negotiating to buy and occupy one of the buildings, said Gleischman.

They're only done with a fifth of the length of the building... Maybe there are some windows further down that aren't built yet? Does anyone have renderings of the backside?

I think I'm right! Someone had mentioned the Staybridge is an 'L' shaped building. On the east side of the section with the concrete wall (the upper side of the bottom line on the 'L') there appears to be metal window frames like the rest of the building.

I think I'm right! Someone had mentioned the Staybridge is an 'L' shaped building. On the east side of the section with the concrete wall (the upper side of the bottom line on the 'L') there appears to be metal window frames like the rest of the building.

That configuration would also create a light court. The very end of the short leg would then be blank (to allow a future adjacent building to butt up against it), and then would allow windows to be included along the inside lengths of the short leg and long leg (because those walls are set back far enough from any adjacent building's walls to allow for natural lighting, air, and egress). So overall, it minimizes the surface area of blank wall quite a bit, because the blank wall isn't going to run down the entire depth of the lot, it will just run down a portion of that distance where any new buildings would abut it.

These are the New Land Enterprises' 4 unit townhomes downtown at Kilbourn and Cass. And I think these look better than the designs..

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2305/2291806139_eee6147b76.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davereid/2291806139/)

This sort of thing would make good infill all over town.

Just an FYI for all of you - expect to see an amazingly cool photo thread in the coming days - and I do mean it when I say AMAZING... You're going to crap your pants. I want to post it myself because I'm super excited about it but I don't want to be a spoiler. You're just going to have to be patient. :)

Just an FYI for all of you - expect to see an amazingly cool photo thread in the coming days - and I do mean it when I say AMAZING... You're going to crap your pants. I want to post it myself because I'm super excited about it but I don't want to be a spoiler. You're just going to have to be patient. :)

What the?? You can't just dangle that in front of me!! I want to see it NOW!!! haha

Does anyone know the parking situation at the Staybridge? Does it have its own or is it sharing the Blatz's?

Does anyone know the parking situation at the Staybridge? Does it have its own or is it sharing the Blatz's?

It will have its own parking garage in the base of the building.

Matt if you look at the staybridge on the 2nd floor is where the parking starts up to the end of where it is square. Looks pretty good for a parking garage doesn't it. And I think they will utilize some parking at 1000 N Water.

For anyone who lives on the East Side, or is otherwise interested, there is a Northeast Side Area Plan Open House Wednesday, February 27 from 5pm-7pm. I am told that at the meeting, the final draft of the Northeast Side Area Plan will be presented along with "a PowerPoint presentation of key concepts and catalytic projects."

I wonder if the "catalytic projects" are simply naming those that are already existing (New UWM dorm, Columbia St. Mary's Expansion, Downer Ave) or will announce new development plans.

Sorry about that, the Open House will be at Alterra on Humboldt, 2999 N. Humboldt.

Milwaukee has been added to the creepy Google Streetview under Google Maps. I played around with it... technology is getting pretty creepy. How did they do that, send someone to Milwaukee for like an entire month?

Contracts for non-residential construction plummeted in the Milwaukee area and the state in January, according to data released today by McGraw-Hill Construction, New York.

In the four-county Milwaukee area, contracts fell 75% to $12.4 million from $48.9 million in January 2007. Statewide, they fell 23%, to $120.5 million from $156.7 million.

Residential construction contracts held steady in the Milwaukee area, growing about 2% to $50 million from $49 million, but statewide they fell 36%, to $138.3 million from $215.8 million.

:ohno:

Milwaukee has been added to the creepy Google Streetview under Google Maps. I played around with it... technology is getting pretty creepy. How did they do that, send someone to Milwaukee for like an entire month?

http://gesterling.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/car.jpg

They drive around all over the place in these taking automatic snapshots.

MilwaukeeMark,

How about an eta for these amazing photos? It's the least you can do, right?

Milwaukee has been added to the creepy Google Streetview under Google Maps. I played around with it... technology is getting pretty creepy. How did they do that, send someone to Milwaukee for like an entire month?
The real question is, how can I get that job? Travelling around a bunch of cities... awesome.

Milwaukee has been added to the creepy Google Streetview under Google Maps. I played around with it... technology is getting pretty creepy. How did they do that, send someone to Milwaukee for like an entire month?

Big brother is watching more and more, sadly one day everyones gonna wake up and realize a camera is watching every move then its too late:bash:. For our "saftey"

MilwaukeeMark,

How about an eta for these amazing photos? It's the least you can do, right?

Unfortunately, it's out of my control. They're not coming from me. It'll be from a brand new member with a "unique" perspective of Milwaukee. I'm hoping it happens soon...

Google Streetview. Wow. It's a wierd feeling indeed to see your own house on this thing (I wasn't home when they took the photo -- looks like they did the photos late last summer).

Check out Detroit on Google Streetview. The widespread decay and abandonment is truly shocking.

Is this the latest rendering of the Aloft Hotel???

http://www.loopnet.com/Attachments/D/5/4/xy_D54D0DFC-623F-4BF0-B29B-04F01D377397__.JPG

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/Looplink/Profile/Profile.aspx?LL=true&LID=15491200&STID=cbre

Is this the latest rendering of the Aloft Hotel???

http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/Looplink/Profile/Profile.aspx?LL=true&LID=15491200&STID=cbre

Nice find!

Is this the latest rendering of the Aloft Hotel???

It appears to be.

I hate to get a reputation as a complainer, but I hope this doesn't turn out to be the dull gray of the rendering, unless it's genuine granite, which I doubt. More likely some very prefab looking panels. The P.M. touches are, as is usual with P.M., klutzy, meaningless, and not at all evocative.
This drawing reminds me a lot of the new Smith Hall dorms here at the UW (see below), which give the appearance of something from the old USSR. The exterior is even drearier than this photo conveys:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/NewSmithRes_extr06_0500lg.jpg

Hope I turn out to be wrong.

Is this the latest rendering of the Aloft Hotel???


http://www.loopnet.com/xNet/Looplink/Profile/Profile.aspx?LL=true&LID=15491200&STID=cbre

Dual crappage. Not only does the Aloft look like crap, it features that menacing redesign of the Sydney Hih project by Ruvin. Of course the Aloft project is still not very mature in the design process but if it ends up, ultimately, resembling that rendering then the site it sits on would be squandered.

I am almost positive that is not the final rendering. That was their rendering from about a year ago. I can't promise the final one will look significantly better though.

Couple did you know facts about the Moderne: (I got very general info, if anyone knows more let us know!)

Did you know it is sort of a pet project of a 23 year old guy?

Did you know that it's already financed (privately) thus they don't have any sales requirement to start building except the requirements they place on themselves?

I have more but I don't want to give away stuff that would get the person who told me in trouble.


Also, did anyone hear about the auction for the Wisconsin Tower condo's?

^^ Interesting stuff.

Here's an unrelated article worthy of posting:

WEDNESDAY, Feb. 27, 2008, 4:04 p.m.
By Tom Daykin
Chmura group buys Pabst building

A real estate partnership that includes former Green Bay Packers player Mark Chmura today completed its purchase of a building at the former Pabst brewery complex.

BC Pabst Holdings, which includes Sonny Bando and Chmura's brother, Matt Chmura, are negotiating with a prospective tenant -which was not identified - to lease most of the 29,200-square-foot former Pabst research lab. Renovations of the three-story building, which overlooks I-43, one block north of W. Juneau Ave., will start Monday.

The partnership also is discussing with Pabst owner Joseph Zilber the possibility of additional property purchases.

It appears to be.

I hate to get a reputation as a complainer, but I hope this doesn't turn out to be the dull gray of the rendering, unless it's genuine granite, which I doubt. More likely some very prefab looking panels. The P.M. touches are, as is usual with P.M., klutzy, meaningless, and not at all evocative.
This drawing reminds me a lot of the new Smith Hall dorms here at the UW (see below), which give the appearance of something from the old USSR. The exterior is even drearier than this photo conveys:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/NewSmithRes_extr06_0500lg.jpg

Hope I turn out to be wrong.

I know what you mean. I remember the rendering of that building was really pretty, but it looks, exactly like you said, something you'd find in some city in the former USSR. I hope the U makes all the other new buildings its making more interesting...

Milwaukee has been added to the creepy Google Streetview under Google Maps. I played around with it... technology is getting pretty creepy. How did they do that, send someone to Milwaukee for like an entire month?
It's like Star Trek. They have warp cameras that can show closeups and different angles from orbit.




That is a joke, by the way. Just in case someone believes me.

Google Streetview. Wow. It's a wierd feeling indeed to see your own house on this thing (I wasn't home when they took the photo -- looks like they did the photos late last summer).

Check out Detroit on Google Streetview. The widespread decay and abandonment is truly shocking.

I saw that, very cool. I'm somewhat surprised they went into the worst neighborhoods of Milwaukee (like the one I was carjacked in). Kind of risky if you ask me. A shiny new VW bug with a 3 foot rotating camera mounted on top is NOT the type of attention you want to attract in the 'hood. If you look around the worst neighborhoods---17th st between Center and Clarke is pretty ominous---you can see the people on the street shoot dirty looks at the car. That shit would be scary, especially for me considering what I went through very nearby.

I am going on a voyage across the world anyway, so I dont care that hydogen is going to ban me. But answer me this before I leave because I am out of the loop since my exile from the Midwest Section.

- Did that take that awesome Ruvin design and trash it for that horrendous monstrocity posted months back? Between that and the Chase tower design, Milwaukee is shaping up to become a new level in a Super Mario game.

Oh, by the way. Goodbye MilwaukeeMark. I know you dont care for me at all, but I love your work. It will truly be missed and some new Milwaukee photographer needs to emerge to spread the Milwaukee love across SSC. I am hated by most, loved by some.... so we need a Barrack Obama type forumer to be our diplomat.

Badass.


Park East hotel, condos will rise over Milwaukee River
By TOM DAYKIN
tdaykin@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Feb. 28, 2008

Construction is to begin in mid-April on a 160-room Aloft Hotel in downtown Milwaukee's Park East area, the $40 million project's developer said Thursday.

Robert Ruvin said financing is lined up for the development, which will include nine two-story condominiums above the seven-story hotel. The development will overlook the Milwaukee River, north of W. Juneau Ave., on land that Ruvin and his partners bought a year ago.

The project's financing includes a $33 million loan. Ruvin said the lender doesn't want to be named publicly at this time.

The hotel is expected to open in the summer of 2009, and it will include 3,500 square feet of street-level retail space, Ruvin said.

The condos are priced starting from $540,000 for a one-bedroom unit, with two-bedroom units ranging from $980,000 to $1.2 million. Each unit will come with a boat slip, and two condos have been sold so far, Ruvin said.

His firm, Ruvin Development Inc., is developing the Aloft project with Dallas-based Gatehouse Capital Corp.

Gatehouse and Ruvin have a much larger project planned just west of the Aloft project. The firms have proposed a 180-room Kimpton Palomar Hotel, along with offices, 70 condominiums, retail space and a parking structure, on a block bordered by W. Juneau and W. McKinley avenues, and N. Old World 3rd and N. 4th streets.

Development of the Palomar-anchored project has been slowed by tightening conditions in the commercial credit markets. Ruvin and Gatehouse have recently increased their marketing for that project, including the construction of a nearby sales center. That center, which will include a model condo, is to open in April, Ruvin said.

I saw that, very cool. I'm somewhat surprised they went into the worst neighborhoods of Milwaukee (like the one I was carjacked in). Kind of risky if you ask me. A shiny new VW bug with a 3 foot rotating camera mounted on top is NOT the type of attention you want to attract in the 'hood. If you look around the worst neighborhoods---17th st between Center and Clarke is pretty ominous---you can see the people on the street shoot dirty looks at the car. That shit would be scary, especially for me considering what I went through very nearby.

Yeah, except they use chevy cobalts... Not exactly a hot car...:)

Wait, I'm confused. The rendering from a couple of days ago looked like it was either two seperate buildings or one big L shaped building. So will it be two towers, one seven story one 18. Or is it one massive 25 story building. Or is it a 7 story tower surrounded by nine two-story condos. Can anyone clarify that for me?

I saw that, very cool. I'm somewhat surprised they went into the worst neighborhoods of Milwaukee (like the one I was carjacked in). Kind of risky if you ask me. A shiny new VW bug with a 3 foot rotating camera mounted on top is NOT the type of attention you want to attract in the 'hood. If you look around the worst neighborhoods---17th st between Center and Clarke is pretty ominous---you can see the people on the street shoot dirty looks at the car. That shit would be scary, especially for me considering what I went through very nearby.

What is crazy is my car is in the driveway of my current home. Unless i was driving the other i was home. Our condo on water is on it and my old house quite crazy. Yes they really covered all of milwaukee and most of the state i was really surprised. Then what was even more insane was i personally am also in a picture with my car at my buddies house and i can cleary make him and I out......creepy.

Wait, I'm confused. The rendering from a couple of days ago looked like it was either two seperate buildings or one big L shaped building. So will it be two towers, one seven story one 18. Or is it one massive 25 story building. Or is it a 7 story tower surrounded by nine two-story condos. Can anyone clarify that for me?

that article worded it weird. To the best of my knowledge, there will be a 7-story hotel with 2 stories of condos above it for a total nine-story building. The 9 condos will be 2-floor condos.

I'm interested in hearing Skyking2's review on the height of the Aloft Hotel ;)

New website for the condominiums above Aloft:

http://www.theresidencesabove.com

"The condos are priced starting from $540,000 for a one-bedroom unit, with two-bedroom units ranging from $980,000 to $1.2 million. Each unit will come with a boat slip, and two condos have been sold so far..."

Dear Chicago,

Thanks for continuing to buy our condos on the River.

-Milwaukee

There's plenty of people in Milwaukee who can buy those condos...

There's plenty of people in Milwaukee who can buy those condos...

Yeeeah....OK, Coldwake... :ohno:

It really is unfortunate how some people can only be negative about things.

It really is unfortunate how some people can only be negative about things.

Unless it's a shopping center in Muskego.

I think it is time for developers in milwaukee to build some apartment buildings in downtown, we seem to be losing them, while the demand for them is increasing.

Yeeeah....OK, Coldwake... :ohno:

Are you serious?

I can't believe you think that in a metro of 1.7 million you don't think there's a hand full of people who can afford these places. Last I checked there's WAY more homes for sale in the burbs for that much that have people purchasing them. Do you think Chicagoans are purchasing them and using our burbs as their second homes?

Doubt it...

Well it's obvious to me that if you have growth in a community, it's not solely from within one's own boundaries.

Chicagoans aren't the only ones moving into Wisconsin. With other businesses expanding in the area, I'm sure there's plenty more people from other states moving in.

I simply just don't see that many Milwaukeeians moving a mile or two north, south, or east. If anything, they'd buy it for use as a rental.

Now I can see some people that live many miles away from the area possibly purchasing an extra pad for personal use, or for a rental as well.

During these times of economic strife, I can't really come up with much else. But whoops - I hit a nerve.

So, when exactly did I promote a shopping center being built in Muskego?? Obviously someone doesn't read my material good enough...

Are you serious?

I can't believe you think that in a metro of 1.7 million you don't think there's a hand full of people who can afford these places. Last I checked there's WAY more homes for sale in the burbs for that much that have people purchasing them. Do you think Chicagoans are purchasing them and using our burbs as their second homes?

The whole thing about Chicagoans coming up here and buying tons of condos is often overstated. Yes, it does happen, but not as much as some people seem to think.

According to the recent Downtown market study released last year, most of the buyers of new residential units in and around Downtown do indeed come from within the Milwaukee metro area (for example, former suburbanites moving into the city to live...or city residents "moving up" from renting to owning a place of their own...not to use as a second home or to lease out to someone else). Many of them are empty-nesters or younger couples or DINK (dual income, no kids) households.

I'm interested in hearing Skyking2's review on the height of the Aloft Hotel ;)

It is 189 stories shorter than it should be. :ohno:

I don't think it's a negative thing that some Milwaukee condos carry a regional draw as vacation homes. Even as a small figure, it's a powerful enough demographic to boost our local economy, and influence sales. I'll take it.

For more information on the trend:
Chicago Tribune (http://www.cmarkc.com/pdf/chicago_milwaukee.pdf)
Journal Sentinel: Illinois Buyers Feel at Home in Milwaukee (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=414865)

I don't think anyone was saying it was a negative that a few people from IL are buying condos up here as second homes. I think the point that Markitect clearly pointed out is that this is not truly a significant number of buyers in the market. That in truth boomers, DINKs and younger couples are moving from the burbs to the city which I'm pretty sure is actually the national trend.

I don't think anyone was saying it was a negative that a few people from IL are buying condos up here as second homes. I think the point that Markitect clearly pointed out is that this is not truly a significant number of buyers in the market. That in truth boomers, DINKs and younger couples are moving from the burbs to the city which I'm pretty sure is actually the national trend.

Excerpt from the article above:

"Several developers estimate 10 to 12 percent of recent buyers in downtown Milwaukee are from Illinois, though it's difficult to differentiate how many will use their Wisconsin real estate on a part-time, leisure basis as opposed to relocating there permanently."

And there are people out there who would be surprised to hear it's only 10-12%...because I've heard people make blind claims that it's much much higher than that, when in reality, it isn't. Those are the overstaters I was talking about...the "Chicagoans make up 50% of people in Downtown" types, or the "Oh, everyone who's buying is from Chicago" types, or the types who say "Yeaaaaaah...OK" and roll their eyes at the idea that there are indeed many people from the Milwaukee area who are buying Downtown condos.

And there are people out there who would be surprised to hear it's only 10-12%...because I've heard people make blind claims that it's much much higher than that, when in reality, it isn't. Those are the overstaters I was talking about...the "Chicagoans make up 50% of people in Downtown" types, or the "Oh, everyone who's buying is from Chicago" types, or the types who say "Yeaaaaaah...OK" and roll their eyes at the idea that there are indeed many people from the Milwaukee area who are buying Downtown condos.

I've heard that before too.

Simple math based upon the 10-12% figure yields 1 Illinois/Chicago purchaser out of the 9 available penthouse units shown on the Residences Above website.

It is highly unlikely that these units will become rentals due to the purchase range of 540K-1.2 million. The cost of such a rental would place it in an infinitely tiny niche market.

UWM Downtown?

http://www.onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/nouwtosa.html

Sounds like a great idea.

Milwaukee Street Hotel Dead (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/03/03/story5.html)

Milwaukee Street Hotel Dead (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2008/03/03/story5.html)

:old:

:old:

It's from the Feb. 29th Biz Journal.

Developer moves forward with MATC tower (http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2008/3/3/developer-moves-forward-with-matc-tower-project)
County Executive Scott Walker will hold a public resolution signing today to accept a proposal from New Vision Development Co., which plans to build a $75 million mixed-use project near the Milwaukee Area Technical College (MATC) in downtown Milwaukee.
The company is buying the vacant 1.89-acre parcel at the southwest corner of North Sixth and West State streets from the county for $3.1 million.

Developer moves forward with MATC tower (http://www.biztimes.com/daily/2008/3/3/developer-moves-forward-with-matc-tower-project)
County Executive Scott Walker will hold a public resolution signing today to accept a proposal from New Vision Development Co., which plans to build a $75 million mixed-use project near the Milwaukee Area Technical College (MATC) in downtown Milwaukee.
The company is buying the vacant 1.89-acre parcel at the southwest corner of North Sixth and West State streets from the county for $3.1 million.

Good news! Too bad the apartments are only going to be 7 stories... But 450 rooms will be good, since students usually blow a lot of money. (local shops / restaurants) :)

Is there any timetable for completing the Midwest Express Center up to Kilbourn?

$91.5 million federal transit aid BLOCKED (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=724218)

After years of wrangling over how to spend $91.5 million in long-idle federal aid, a bureaucratic mix-up has blocked further study of using the money for public transit improvements, officials said Monday.

And until that problem is solved, the federal money - the last remaining piece of a $289 million appropriation from 1991 - can't be spent on express buses, streetcars, light rail or anything else that has been proposed, Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker said.

Does anyone know what is going on at the Marcus PAC with the lights? I work right in the vicinity at night and there was one night where the building was lit up so brightly in amazing colors. I was walking by the other night, fairly late at night, and there were workers on scissor lifts working on long LED lights that go along the outside of the building.

I just wonder if this is the "secret" that is being put together right now...

http://onmilwaukee.com/bars/articles/cadillacranch.html

Sounds pretty cool.. wondering how it will do in that location. Unfortunately it isn't more retail but looking forward to checking this place out.

^ Not my particular cup of tea, but definitely a good destination for visitors...

Also, its official. American Apparel is coming to Milwaukee!
http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=3/6/2008&id=36618

http://onmilwaukee.com/bars/articles/cadillacranch.html

Sounds pretty cool.. wondering how it will do in that location. Unfortunately it isn't more retail but looking forward to checking this place out.

I'm happy about this. Remember how that corner used to look before the IRS revamped that building?

Now if we could fill the old Taco Bell space across the street ...

Wow, Cadillac Ranch is a nice restaurant. I went to the Cincinnati location two weeks ago, and it was a major draw for the Fountain Square area of that city. The building at that location is more interesting though:

http://bp1.blogger.com/_3wOPPMkm9xg/Roa_0UUYroI/AAAAAAAAAAM/qeil9ndegC0/s320/IMG_0860.JPG

It's almost dizzying to see in person.

Three years, though.

Twin towers planned for downtown Milwaukee
Developer proposes 20-story buildings, despite housing slump
The Business Journal of Milwaukee - March 10, 2008 by Pete Millard


Banking on a turnaround in the slumping housing market, Milwaukee developer Boris Gokhman is proposing twin downtown Milwaukee high-rise buildings that would offer a mix of residential and retail, The Business Journal has learned.

Gokhman is pursuing zoning changes for two parcels on East Kilbourn Avenue and North Van Buren Street that would be the site of the two 20-story, mixed-use buildings. He envisions them going up within three years, made easier by the fact that the land already is in hand.

Assuming this is the Kilbourn / Van Buren mixed use development shown on http://www.workshoparchitects.com/

Although the renderings appear to be a bit shorter than 20 stories. Exciting.

Three years, though.

Twin towers planned for downtown Milwaukee
Developer proposes 20-story buildings, despite housing slump
The Business Journal of Milwaukee - March 10, 2008 by Pete Millard


Why are all developers scared to break the 20-30 story mark? Two 20 story towers will be cool, but I'd rather have one 40 story tower.

Although development is great, I cringe any time NLE builds something these days. Shady construction practices. :(

i agree ematt... and actually that area (kilbourn/van buren) is kinda a good area to put one cuz there's not many "talls" there. but it would nice if it was 40 stories, instead of two 20 stories. oh well... thats milwaukee.

If they border Kilbourn properly, a pair of buildings could bring more coherence to a shamefully ragged streetscape (for such a potentially grand boulevard) than a single tall.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/KilbournVanBuren.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/KilbournVanBurenproposal.jpg

Because surface lots and vacant lots are such a blight and destroy the urban fabric that I'd rather the two 20 story buildings than one 40 story building simply because you fill in more vacant land... And of course as you fill in the available land the demand to go taller will start to build up.

Because surface lots and vacant lots are such a blight and destroy the urban fabric that I'd rather the two 20 story buildings than one 40 story building simply because you fill in more vacant land... And of course as you fill in the available land the demand to go taller will start to build up.

You are wrong.
The area in question is not a blighted area by any means.
One 40-story building adds more to the skyline and excitement to build more.
Filling in will not get you taller later. What kind of logic is that? There are just so many development opprtunities in a city the size of Milwaukee. This isn't Chicago. The more low rise projects there are, the less chance you're going to see height. Sorry, but developers like this are irritating.

Same with the new Aloft Hotel and condos...nine stories?! When a different plan could have elevated it to twice that. Then there's Ghazi's Catalyst project -- it doesn't even appear to be as tall as the Hilton!! The conservative nature of building height in this city is frustrating. And, as much as I like the US Bank building by itself, it is too big for Milwaukee's skyline -- unless it was in the middle of the other buildings. In some ways, the skyline would be better without the USB building...really.

I live a couple blocks from the site and no it is not blighted per se but there aren't any "eyes on the street" along there, and the vacant lot clearly breaks up the urban fabric. Building on both sides of the street dramatically improves both issues.

"Filling in will not get you taller later. What kind of logic is that?" Let us see if there is plenty of room what do developers build? Note the suburbs when land is cheap you build shorter buildings.. Now as the available space fills in you have to go up to reach your unit numbers... Further don't you think if building a 40-story building made economic sense that these developers would do it? For example: Ghazi is building a bigger project in Charlotte, NC I wonder why that is?...hmmm... Oh the numbers work there, they don't here yet....

Why do all discussions seem to still revolve around height - tower envy? Haven't we seen over the years that there is just not the demand to build a 50 story property in Milwaukee - especially in the business climate? We are pulling from a limited pool of resources in this city and with each new project "announced" (and maybe built) that pool keeps getting smaller and smaller. Unless Milwaukee and the region as a whole can attract new business to downtown (i.e. Red Prairie) the ideas of 40 and 50 story towers are just not going to happen.

Don't get me wrong either, I would love to see a magnificent new 50 story tower built in the city, but why do we bang out heads against the wall talking about something that really doesn't have a shot to be built. We should embrace our city as a place where you don't need a confluence of towers to be a great urban city. Why not appreciate the beauty of our buildings, the density of our neighborhoods, and the great old architecture that hasn't been torn down for a new, glassy building.

^^ Because this is SKYSCRAPERcity.

sirwilliam> yes that was what I was trying to say but of course milwaukemark is also correct in that it is skyscrapercity:)

Don't get me wrong either, I would love to see a magnificent new 50 story tower built in the city, but why do we bang out heads against the wall talking about something that really doesn't have a shot to be built. We should embrace our city as a place where you don't need a confluence of towers to be a great urban city. Why not appreciate the beauty of our buildings, the density of our neighborhoods, and the great old architecture that hasn't been torn down for a new, glassy building.

Agreed...I actually prefer more mid-rise density than a scattered high-rise here and there. I'm with Twoaday, the more surface lots we can develop in this area of town the improvement would be amazing.

kudos to clark and twoaday

european cities have been scaled from 3-7 stories for hundreds of years (destroyed and rebuilt in the same fashion). they have fantastic transit, excellent walkability, and vibrant 24-hour entertainment districts. when will people wake up and realize that high rises temporarly kill the office and residential districts of mid-rise cities???:bash: chicago is what it is, and many say its a mini-milwaukee without all the crap. lets leave it at that. we don't have the critical mass or density to be wishing for such structures. leave that sh*t to dubai and shanghai. don't believe me...look at detroit and it's tri-county office vacancy rate, not to mention the residential forclosures. wish for mass transit and proper community planning with thoughful integration-nough said

Fall construction seen for Park East hotel
Construction could begin this fall on a $160 million hotel and condominium tower planned for downtown Milwaukee's Park East area, the project's developer said today.

The project, anchored by a 176-room Kimpton Palomar Hotel and 63 condos, is proposed for the block bordered by W. Juneau and W. McKinley avenues, and N. Old World 3rd and N. 4th streets.

The developers, Dallas-based Gatehouse Capital Corp. and Ruvin Development Inc., of Milwaukee, have just started marketing the condominiums. The developers believe they will have to sell 40% to 50% of the condos in order to obtain a construction loan for the project, said Ed Koh, Gatehouse director of development.

The developers believe they will reach that sales goal by fall, Koh told members of the County Board's Committee on Economic and Community Development. Koh spoke during an update of the project, which would occur on a former Park East Freeway parcel that the county has agreed to sell to Gatehouse and Ruvin.

Kimpton Palomar hopes to begin construction this fall:
http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=3/10/2008&id=36755

Minor Pabst Brewery Update:
http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=3/10/2008&id=36757

MONDAY, March 10, 2008, 2:35 p.m.
By Tom Daykin
8-story office building planned downtown
An eight-story office building, with 155,000 square feet, is planned for downtown Milwaukee, a local development firm said today.

Wangard Properties says the building would be develped on top of an existing parking structure just south of 875 E. Wisconsin Ave., where Wangard Properties operates a 225,000-square-foot office building known as 875 East. The new building would be developed in part to provide space to tenants at 875 East, which are considering expansion plans, said Steward Wangard, company chairman.

"There are several potential tenants for the new building, and talks we've had with key prospects are ongoing and productive," Wangard said, in a statement. 875 East's tenants include Roundy's Supermarkets Inc. and investment firm Artisan Partners.

ugh.. 8 stories.

I live a couple blocks from the site and no it is not blighted per se but there aren't any "eyes on the street" along there, and the vacant lot clearly breaks up the urban fabric. Building on both sides of the street dramatically improves both issues.

"Filling in will not get you taller later. What kind of logic is that?" Let us see if there is plenty of room what do developers build? Note the suburbs when land is cheap you build shorter buildings.. Now as the available space fills in you have to go up to reach your unit numbers... Further don't you think if building a 40-story building made economic sense that these developers would do it? For example: Ghazi is building a bigger project in Charlotte, NC I wonder why that is?...hmmm... Oh the numbers work there, they don't here yet....

I understand about demand, and Charlotte is booming, so...ta da!! there's demand. Yeah, I get it. But, your argument that filling in begets height only works if there is enough building going on. At the current rate of "filling in," Milwaukee's next 40-story building is 15-20 years away.

For example, look at the horse-ass announcement just today for a...wow, are you ready?...an 8-story tower. :bash: WTF?!!!!! Right next to where the Lake Pointe Tower has been proposed! See, your "filling in" is comprimising other, taller more exciting plans out there. You think there is just 155,000 sq. feet of downtown office space available at any time. Jeez, this city has no direction from the DCD, so developers run willy nilly with crappy little developments that don't do jack to pump up the image of Milwaukee. :ohno:

MONDAY, March 10, 2008, 2:35 p.m.
By Tom Daykin
8-story office building planned downtown
An eight-story office building, with 155,000 square feet, is planned for downtown Milwaukee, a local development firm said today.

Wangard Properties says the building would be develped on top of an existing parking structure just south of 875 E. Wisconsin Ave., where Wangard Properties operates a 225,000-square-foot office building known as 875 East. The new building would be developed in part to provide space to tenants at 875 East, which are considering expansion plans, said Steward Wangard, company chairman.

"There are several potential tenants for the new building, and talks we've had with key prospects are ongoing and productive," Wangard said, in a statement. 875 East's tenants include Roundy's Supermarkets Inc. and investment firm Artisan Partners.

Don't bother me with this crap! I'd rather nothing was going in there. What a shitty announcement. Boy, I can't wait for a really tall, imaginative building of, say 10 stories. Yeah, that would be super exciting. Sorry, but there is absolute shit for brains going on out there -- and it starts at city hall since no planning is in place to induce combining projects, ie. LPT. Why couldn't this 155,000 sq. feet been integrated into the Lake Pointe Tower?!!
:bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

I think that just about everyone on here would be thrilled to see a 50 story building go up, this is a skyscraper forum after all. However, just because a proposal isn't 50 floors (or even ten floors) does not make that proposal bad in and of itself. If developers are coming along with good plans for 8 or 20 story building that add to the city's fabric and fill in vacant streetfront, I think they should be applauded and supported for that.

I know this is a Skyscraper forum, but truth be told, hardly any of what's been built in Milwaukee recently, that which is making it uniquely attractive and invigorating, is a highrise: the Calatrava, Third Ward and Walker's Point conversions, Beerline, Pabst City, Harley Museum and Discovery World, etc. Any talls that have been built or planned would make almost no difference in the experience of being in the city without all of these. Even the panoramas of the towers from the Lake would hardly be notable without their sitting high on the bluff, dramatically set off against the park and lagoon in the foreground.
It's the experience at ground level that's the defining impression that Milwaukee makes, and a very high quality, not duplicated elsewhere impression, it is well in the process of creating. Quality is key. Appropriateness to the setting is key. Not reverting to mediocrity, or worse, is key. Quantity of quality, not bigness just for bigness' sake.

I think they should be applauded and supported for that.:ohno:

I agree with SkyKing... Why cant this be integrated into the Lake Point Tower??? :badnews:

I understand about demand, and Charlotte is booming, so...ta da!! there's demand. Yeah, I get it. But, your argument that filling in begets height only works if there is enough building going on. At the current rate of "filling in," Milwaukee's next 40-story building is 15-20 years away.

For example, look at the horse-ass announcement just today for a...wow, are you ready?...an 8-story tower. :bash: WTF?!!!!! Right next to where the Lake Pointe Tower has been proposed! See, your "filling in" is comprimising other, taller more exciting plans out there. You think there is just 155,000 sq. feet of downtown office space available at any time. Jeez, this city has no direction from the DCD, so developers run willy nilly with crappy little developments that don't do jack to pump up the image of Milwaukee. :ohno:

skyking, the problem with the tall buildings will always be parking, since most people who work downtown, drive to work. For an 8-story building of 150,000 SF the developer probably needs a little under 400 parking spaces (4/1,000). At $20,000 to construct a parking space, that is $8m on parking alone.

For a Lake Pointe Tower type of development, the developer would need many times that amount of parking. Chicago and other major cities are able to build taller buildings because the developers don't have to build the parking...people either take transit or they pay to park in a garage somewhere else...but office tenants don't make it the requirement like they do here.

Someone paying $100/month for parking, while that seems like a lot, doesn't come close to covering the cost of building and maintaining that parking over the life of the structure. The developer, therefore, must subsidize the cost of parking to get a tenant in.

There are only two ways to fix that. 1) DCD pays for every parking structure. 2) We start to invest in transit so that parking doesn't become a requirement attached to office development.

I would love to see taller buildings too, but until parking is figured out, it is not going to happen.

As far as city government forcing developers of separate proposals to combine projects so that taller buildings may be erected, that is a violation of property rights as entitled by the Constitution. DCD does not do that because it has no legal bearing to do so. No city does, at least no city in the US.

So when you see cities across the country building skyscrapers, more numerous and at a faster rate than Milwaukee, it isn't because their local planning departments are forcing developers to combine their proposals into fewer and taller projects.

It appears someone does not understand the first thing about the incredible amounts of money and effort required to build a large skyscraper. And why am I sure this reply will not make a difference? Not to mention the simple understanding of supply and demand. Why on God's green earth would a developer spend multiple hundreds of millions of dollars on something that will cost more in the end when they have large swaths of land to build multiple buildings on already? The square footage cost of a 40 story skyscraper is more than that of four 10 story buildings. The city does not have the responsibility of building tall buildings. Supply and demand does. Name me other metros the size of Milwaukee that have large skyscrapers going up regularily. Charlotte can not be compared, the metro area is larger and gaining tens of thousands in population every year - I believe something like 40,000 annually? That population increase is called demand, the tall buildings are called supply in the form of office space and housing. Fortune 500 companies are knocking down city hall's front door in Charlotte. The reason we do not have this going on in Milwaukee is much larger than one developer over here proposing an 8 story building and another over here a 9 story building and neither of them talking to each other to build a 17 story building. It is much larger and a big piece of the equation is an adequate, integrated transportation system, or lack there of.

I'd be interested to know everyone's credentials around here - just to know how reputable some of these rants are. I'd like to know if I am talking to someone in the industry with a background that is trustworthy of making educated comments, as I am (urban planning and architecture degrees, 5 years experience at one of the largest architecture firms in the midwest, I also live in Third Ward (invested, not renting), communicate with my alderman about "city" issues - everything I do is "city" - don't try to tell me I do not know what I am talking about) or if I am talking to the president of the high school debate team because it just "feels" like the latter. This is an open forum and free to anyone who has a passion for development, even if they do not have professional experience or education - and that is a wonderful thing. But, making comments as if you do, and spreading innaccurate information does nothing but incourage others to think that Milwaukee is an inferior city because it can not build a 50 story building.

As far as city government forcing developers of separate proposals to combine projects so that taller buildings may be erected, that is a violation of property rights as entitled by the Constitution. DCD does not do that because it has no legal bearing to do so. No city does, at least no city in the US.

So when you see cities across the country building skyscrapers, more numerous and at a faster rate than Milwaukee, it isn't because their local planning departments are forcing developers to combine their proposals into fewer and taller projects.

Did I ever say anything about FORCING? Uh, I don't think so. It's called cooperation between government and private developers. So, when you see progress with taller buildings in other cities Milwaukee's size, it's because those cities know how to get it done.

I'm in middle school... and my opinion is that we're more affected by our business climate and tax burdens then we are by our poor transportation system.

It appears someone does not understand the first thing about the incredible amounts of money and effort required to build a large skyscraper. And why am I sure this reply will not make a difference? Not to mention the simple understanding of supply and demand. Why on God's green earth would a developer spend multiple hundreds of millions of dollars on something that will cost more in the end when they have large swaths of land to build multiple buildings on already? The square footage cost of a 40 story skyscraper is more than that of four 10 story buildings. The city does not have the responsibility of building tall buildings. Supply and demand does. Name me other metros the size of Milwaukee that have large skyscrapers going up regularily. Charlotte can not be compared, the metro area is larger and gaining tens of thousands in population every year - I believe something like 40,000 annually? That population increase is called demand, the tall buildings are called supply in the form of office space and housing. Fortune 500 companies are knocking down city hall's front door in Charlotte. The reason we do not have this going on in Milwaukee is much larger than one developer over here proposing an 8 story building and another over here a 9 story building and neither of them talking to each other to build a 17 story building. It is much larger and a big piece of the equation is an adequate, integrated transportation system, or lack there of.

I'd be interested to know everyone's credentials around here - just to know how reputable some of these rants are. I'd like to know if I am talking to someone in the industry with a background that is trustworthy of making educated comments, as I am (urban planning and architecture degrees, 5 years experience at one of the largest architecture firms in the midwest, I also live in Third Ward (invested, not renting), communicate with my alderman about "city" issues - everything I do is "city" - don't try to tell me I do not know what I am talking about) or if I am talking to the president of the high school debate team because it just "feels" like the latter. This is an open forum and free to anyone who has a passion for development, even if they do not have professional experience or education - and that is a wonderful thing. But, making comments as if you do, and spreading innaccurate information does nothing but incourage others to think that Milwaukee is an inferior city because it can not build a 50 story building.

You are so cute when you act all important. :lol: Now, if you had been a part of this site for any period of time (which you haven't), you'd know my position by now. It's pretty funny, really. But thanks for your, ahem, very important time. I am honored. Thank you. I am impressed with your credentials. Really, I am. We're lucky to have you sharing your life with us.
:master:

And now I know who I am dealing with, I am sorry I wasted my time. Thanks for your informative and insightful posts and proving my point. I asked an honest question and got a snotty remark back with no value what so ever. Why aren't there rules about that anyway? Anyone who does not have the ego and is willing to have serious conversations about actual Milwaukee development (not just SKYSCRAPERS, SKYSCRAPERS, SKYSCRAPERS), I am still interested.

P.S. fully expecting childish reply back about my panties in a bunch, sad that it has come to this.

And now I know who I am dealing with, I am sorry I wasted my time. Thanks for your informative and insightful posts and proving my point. I asked an honest question and got a snotty remark back with no value what so ever. Why aren't there rules about that anyway? Anyone who does not have the ego and is willing to have serious conversations about actual Milwaukee development (not just SKYSCRAPERS, SKYSCRAPERS, SKYSCRAPERS), I am still interested.

P.S. fully expecting childish reply back about my panties in a bunch, sad that it has come to this.

Oh geez, don't take it so seriously... this is an online chat forum. Skyking is a piece of work, no doubt. But don't get into a pissing match over internet posts. Simma down nah.

If the LPT had been built by now, it would have been more than capable of absorbing the expansion plans of the tenants of 875 East, and then some. I think the developers of LPT have missed the boat by sitting on their hands. Wasn't it going to be a mixed development, i.e. hotel, offices, and condos? Holy smokes! There's your office portion practically filled in right away. And didn't LPT have a hotel business lined up to take up that portion of the LPT? Therefore all you have left is the easy task of selling some high-end condos at a very desirable prime waterfront location. Ta daaaaahhh! 40 plus stories sucked up like nothing.

Instead we get an eight story nubber.

It's absolutely insane that people are complaining about "only" getting an eight story office building. If the demand was there, we'd get more and larger projects. It isn't.

What might concern me more about this is that it seems like there are better sites for a new office building than right at the edge of downtown along Michigan. But even then, a developer is going to build where they already own land if its an option.

For the 875 East addition, there is a convenience factor involved for the tenants of the existing building who are considering expanding. So for them, it makes more sense to have their additional office space just down the hall in a new "wing" of the existing building, as opposed to in a completely different building on a completely different site elsewhere in Downtown. Not to mention the rent is most likely going to be cheaper where those tenants are already at in a shorter building, versus what they'd be paying in a much taller building.

Those upset that the 875 East addition proposal is only 8 stories may want to direct their outrage at the US Bank, since there is a deed restriction on the 875 property preventing anything taller from being built there, so as not to obstruct USB's views of the lake and Art Museum.

It's odd but the new restaurant that's opening where Third Street Pier used to be (along the riverwalk), has a website showing construction updates, sample interiors, and a pdf of the restaurant layout.

Here's the link if you're interested: Kincaid's (http://www.kincaids.com/index.php?locations=Milwaukee)

Anyone catch this information in the hotel Palomar article?

"...The Palomar site is vacant, except for the empty Sydney Hih building and the former Gipfel Brewery.

The developers have dropped plans to incorporate those buildings into the development, and instead would demolish the Sydney Hih, while using remnants of the building in a park planned for the southwest corner of W. McKinley Ave. "

Isn't that a tiny Sydney Hih in the bottom left corner?

http://www.ruvindevelopment.com/images/palomar/t-01Palomar.jpg

That sucks, but to be quite honest, I care more about the Gipfel than Sydney Hih. I really never got the appeal of it.

While the 875 East expansion would be greater if it were taller, the 8 stories isnt really that bad. I honestly think the portion that is there now looks rather decent, and for all the complaining that goes on about KT and UCT being ontop of each other, id dread the uproar that would come with a 40 story going up right next to our current tallest.

As far as parking concerns, thats a legit problem a large building would bring. As far as tenants demanding that parking being provided, not sure that is necessarily the case as I know quite a few people who work at Roundy's HQ and they have to pay for parking seperate on the LSD parking structure which was not a part of that expansion.

As anyone, I would love to see taller buildings go up, but atm, I will take what we are getting. The Modern is relatively tall for Milwaukee, as is Catalyst, which IMO is the most important development going on in the city. LPT was only a dream, and in all honesty, these smaller developments will be the the "catalyst" for more, and then hopefully larger developments. All we have to do is wait a bit. We should be glad we are not having the problems that some of the other midwestern cities sound like they are having.

Oh, and while I am usually all about conservation....good riddance to the Sydney Hih. I never saw the need. If they can keep it fine, but if they have to get rid of it, I wouldn't cry. Could be good ammo for saving something more worth saving down the road.

If the LPT had been built by now, it would have been more than capable of absorbing the expansion plans of the tenants of 875 East, and then some. I think the developers of LPT have missed the boat by sitting on their hands. Wasn't it going to be a mixed development, i.e. hotel, offices, and condos? Holy smokes! There's your office portion practically filled in right away. And didn't LPT have a hotel business lined up to take up that portion of the LPT? Therefore all you have left is the easy task of selling some high-end condos at a very desirable prime waterfront location. Ta daaaaahhh! 40 plus stories sucked up like nothing.

Instead we get an eight story nubber.

It's not quite that simple though. In addition to needing a major office tenant, condo sales and a hotel deal, LPT was also asking the city for close to $40million for....PARKING!

Parking kills almost all potential downtown commercial development deals in Milwaukee. The ones that get done are the ones where the City pays for parking. Look at Manpower, the city had to pay for that entire parking deck to get that project done. 1000 North Water? Same thing. Cathedral Place? Ditto. The Brewery? Parking deck. Milwaukee Center? Parking. Grand Avenue? You get the picture.

Very few commercial developments have been built without the City contributing to parking over the past 10-15 years.

This situation has to be fixed otherwise Milwaukee will never develop the way that we all want it to.

I'm in middle school... and my opinion is that we're more affected by our business climate and tax burdens then we are by our poor transportation system.

:applause:

The Sydney Hih were the only buildings spared by Park East clearance. I'd hate to see them go, and I'd hate for the above posted rendering to get built. What's the deal? What happened to Ruvin's original design?

Oh geez, don't take it so seriously... this is an online chat forum. Skyking is a piece of work, no doubt. But don't get into a pissing match over internet posts. Simma down nah.

Well I'd rather have a local architect and urban planner posting his/her comments on this forum rather than someone with a tagline of "If it ain't 50 stories, don't post!"

I think Warder has every right to piss on that parade!

As far as the 8-story building, I'm already on record praising it. It at least gives the Milwaukee office market, which is dubbed as slumping and not doing pretty, an opportunity to at least make the word "slumping" turn into "moderate"