...continued from the old thread, which was up above 2,000 posts.

Click here for the previous thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=422324).

Photo by MilwaukeeMark:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/39/img54602xh6.jpg

And GO BREWERS!
http://www.lakeland.edu/images/advancement/brewers.jpg

Woohoo! Another Milwaukee Thread that starts off with one of my photos. Thanks hydrogen! I'm honored.

Development news related though, here's an article from today's paper:

A proposal for $3 million in city financing for the planned redevelopment of one of downtown Milwaukee's older office buildings was rejected today by a Common Council committee, raising doubts about the future of the $23 million project.

The Zoning, Neighborhoods and Development Committee voted 3-2 to reject the financing plan. The city funds would help finance renovations at a 295,000-square-foot office building at 735 N. Water St. and repairs to a neighboring riverwalk. Compass Properties LLC plans to make improvements to the building, and convert an adjacent 80,000-square-foot building, at 731 N. Water St., into condominiums and a parking structure.

The 16-story building at 735 N. Water St. was completed in 1913 as the headquarters for First Wisconsin National Bank. That building is leased to office tenants, including PrivateBank and Trust Co. The eight-story building at 731 N. Water St., built in 1962 as an annex to the First Wisconsin building, has been vacant for more than 15 years.

Compass wants to convert the entire ground floor and the eastern half of the upper floors at 731 N. Water into a parking structure for 735 N. Water tenants. That building has a 41% vacancy rate, and has lost tenants in recent years to newer office buildings. The western half of 731 N. Water, which overlooks the Milwaukee River, would be converted into seven condos.

Committee members praised the project. But they also said that approving city financing could set a precedent for owners of other historic downtown office buildings to seek similar assistance.

Milwaukee to issue redevelopment funds

The Business Journal of Milwaukee - 2:57 PM CDT Monday, July 23, 2007

The city of Milwaukee is issuing more than $930,000 in federal aid for the redevelopment of blighted buildings or expansion projects that add jobs and tax revenue.

Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett has released a Request for Proposals for Large Impact Development funding opportunities throughout the city of Milwaukee.


The funding totals $931,790 and is one of the largest economic development funding opportunities ever announced through the City of Milwaukee Community Development Grants Administration. The funds are provided by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development.

"This is an exciting opportunity to access and invigorate areas of the city that have unlimited potential, but have seen very little investment," Barrett said in a press release. "We are seeking new and innovative ideas and creative partnerships that will be a catalyst for valuable investment in the city."

To be eligible for this funding opportunity, applicants must be a non-profit agency organized under Chapter 181 of the Wisconsin State Statute and qualify as a Section 501 (c)(3) agency.

The Milwaukee Common Council's Community and Economic Development Committee will be making recommendations to the full Council regarding all award allocations.

All requests must propose the re-use of vacant, blighted property or the physical expansion of property, provide new or increased city of Milwaukee tax base revenue and create jobs. The deadline for proposals in Aug. 13, 2007. For more information, see www.milwaukee.gov/cdbg.

Hooray for Milwaukee Development News MXCCIIV!

wow finallly a new thread

There's a cool video of the Milwaukee City Hall re-construction project on JSOnline today. Here's the link:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=638406

That video was great. I guess due to its width (or lack thereof), especially at the top, one never really realizes how tall City Hall really is. Really incredible to see those workers at eye level with the crown of Milwaukee Center.

When I got back from Europe a couple of weeks ago I was very pleasantly surprised to see the new copper roof, and am very excited to see it once the restoration is complete. I think seeing City Hall with its copper roof (as it had appeared when it was briefly the world's tallest) will be as exciting, to me, at least, as seeing the Calatrava or Miller Park for the first time.

I agree with CGII. I think when the scaffolding comes down the newly reborn City Hall is unveiled, it will be a big deal for the city. I've always thought of City Hall as our true icon, the one building that most definitively says "Milwaukee." It's been hidden away for awhile, shrouded in a mist of scaffolding, but when it emerges it can hopefully become a major point of pride for the city.

I wonder if the City is planning some kind of rededication celebration for City Hall. I think it would be cool to have a dramatic lighting ceremony at night complete with fireworks, music, etc. That would be much better than some boring ceremony with a bunch of speeches.

Channel 12 has a video on their website featuring a rendering fly-through of the now under-construction CSM hospital on the East side.

Channel 12 Video Link (http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/video/13713962/index.html)

I was wondering what that was the other day. Its already clearly visibly by viewing just the supports. Looks to be very nice by the renderings.

From: Harley Davidson Museum Website (http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/HD_Museum/LTL/rivet_individual.jsp?locale=en_US&page=overview)

http://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/92e3aa74fe71e2/resource.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Media/images/content/pictorial/HD_Museum/img_curved_steel_wall.jpghttp://a1276.g.akamai.net/7/1276/734/e42116fcc794f4/resource.harley-davidson.com/en_US/Media/images/content/pictorial/HD_Museum/img_special_plaza.jpg

"Customize your individual Living the Legend™ rivet now and make a statement. Tell your story and leave your lasting mark on the grounds of the Harley-Davidson Museum™. Do it for yourself, a friend, family member, co-worker/employee, or as a salute to a loved one.

Claim your place on the grounds of the Harley-Davidson Museum."

*(Price Range: $250 to $2,500)

I was speaking with the lead architect of Lakeshore State Park and he informed me that construction of an observation tower (not very tall and obtrusive) will begin this year and be ready by early next summer. The state park welcome center will be constructed at the same time.

Cool. Any drawings?

Cool. Any drawings?

There are drawings but I don't have access to them. I'll try to get some renderings soon.

Interesting tidbit of news, Mark. Hopefully it offers some great vantage points for taking photos.

I like it - it will provide a unique skyline shot of Milwaukee from Lake Michigan

Anyone remember that waterspout that was being studied for the outer harbor back in the early 90s? Whatever happened to that?

Anyone remember that waterspout that was being studied for the outer harbor back in the early 90s? Whatever happened to that?

Did you say a "waterspout"?? Good Lord who proposed that!?

There was some proposal way back to put fountains out in the harbor as some kind of gimicky attraction. I think that was one of Mayor Maier's crazy ideas, that thankfully didn't amount to anything.

It was to have been a single fountain shooting at least a hundred feet in the air; I seem to remember 300, but it was long ago. I think it would have been interesting.

I just don't know if I'd be wanting to see a 300 ft high waterspout.....it sounds a bit silly to be honest.

Great news for Mitchell International:
General Mitchell concourse addition unveiled
The Business Journal of Milwaukee - 10:55 AM CDT Friday, July 27, 2007
Print this Article Email this Article Reprints RSS Feeds Most Viewed Most Emailed
General Mitchell International Airport's $18 million Concourse C addition was unveiled Thursday night.

The 61,000-square-foot expansion adds eight gates and passenger amenities to the end of the concourse.


Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker, county board chairman Lee Holloway, supervisor James White and other officials attended the opening ceremony.

Walker said they were celebrating "a renovation that prepares our airport for the future, giving us the capacity we need to serve our growing number of passengers from communities throughout Wisconsin and northern Illinois."

New amenities include a children's play area, a business center, and food and retail outlets.

The addition completes a three-year renovation of Concourse C. Previous phases included making the concourse more passenger-friendly and efficient. The security area was widened, a security lane was added, passenger throughways were widened, concession stands were remodeled and artist Carlos Alves created a concourse-long terrazzo floor titled "Aerial Wisconsin" that depicts southeastern Wisconsin with mosaic floor medallions.

There was some proposal way back to put fountains out in the harbor as some kind of gimicky attraction. I think that was one of Mayor Maier's crazy ideas, that thankfully didn't amount to anything.

If I remember correctly, the water was to be shot up to form a gigantic "M" shape as well

I think that "M" fountain would be pretty cool if done right, tacky if done wrong. The idea has potential.

BTW ya'll... I am now down in Racine. I am really in Chicaukee now and it shows. Milwaukeeans and Chicagoans everywhere!

This place is different, a total different feel from Milwaukee or its urbanized area.

The people down here have their own sense of independence. Many look at Milwaukee as a seperate entity. The way people talk, you get that small town sense from them (ex. I drove all the way from Kenosha, I don't want to drive all the way to the northside of racine, Take Hwy 20, K, G, MM). Although I must admit the downtown is larger than what I expected and it kind of sits on a bluff overlooking lake Michigan.

The city is losing population but there is also a SOME urban renewal going on around downtown. Other parts of the city look so rustbelt and decaying it is not even funny. One of the Neighborehoods just south of downtown is pretty rough to the eyes. One of the highways on the southside of town is home to crumbling buildings which are...well crumbling without repair.

It is all about the Journal Times down here. Yesterday there was an article about expanding I-94 from 6 to 8 lanes. I-94 is filled with moderate traffic ALL DAY LONG and into the night from the state line to Milwaukee County heading both north and south bound. However, there are also many pockets of heavy traffic which causes congestion for stretches of a few hundred feet to about a half mile. The proposed idea is to have an eight lane freeway running through the countryside from Milwaukee to Chicago.

I feel like taking some pics and posting them but I am very busy with work...we shall see.

I think that "M" fountain would be pretty cool if done right, tacky if done wrong. The idea has potential.

BTW ya'll... I am now down in Racine. I am really in Chicaukee now and it shows. Milwaukeeans and Chicagoans everywhere!

This place is different, a total different feel from Milwaukee or its urbanized area.

The people down here have their own sense of independence. Many look at Milwaukee as a seperate entity. The way people talk, you get that small town sense from them (ex. I drove all the way from Kenosha, I don't want to drive all the way to the northside of racine, Take Hwy 20, K, G, MM). Although I must admit the downtown is larger than what I expected and it kind of sits on a bluff overlooking lake Michigan.

The city is losing population but there is also a SOME urban renewal going on around downtown. Other parts of the city look so rustbelt and decaying it is not even funny. One of the Neighborehoods just south of downtown is pretty rough to the eyes. One of the highways on the southside of town is home to crumbling buildings which are...well crumbling without repair.

It is all about the Journal Times down here. Yesterday there was an article about expanding I-94 from 6 to 8 lanes. I-94 is filled with moderate traffic ALL DAY LONG and into the night from the state line to Milwaukee County heading both north and south bound. However, there are also many pockets of heavy traffic which causes congestion for stretches of a few hundred feet to about a half mile. The proposed idea is to have an eight lane freeway running through the countryside from Milwaukee to Chicago.

I feel like taking some pics and posting them but I am very busy with work...we shall see.

Racine always has that independent feel. I would say Milwaukeeians don't really regard Racine as part of their metro, and plenty of maps show it!

I-94 is a mess both ways. Traffic can be horrendous at times, especially on the weekends. It becomes scary because after you pass the Ryan Road exit...you're pretty much among Illinois residents!

Racine always has that independent feel. I would say Milwaukeeians don't really regard Racine as part of their metro, and plenty of maps show it!

I-94 is a mess both ways. Traffic can be horrendous at times, especially on the weekends. It becomes scary because after you pass the Ryan Road exit...you're pretty much among Illinois residents!

One day last week was the first time in my life that I drove on I-94 (for 7 miles northbound) and did not see a single Illinois plate. Usually I make a game of it and count them on my short drive. I hardly ever count less than 10 on a one-way trip that lasts 6 minutes on the freeway.

A fun thing that I have learned...which shows you what we truly mean by "Those A$$hole Illinois Drivers" can be found in the following:

The other night I came up on a pack of congestion on I-94. At the back of this pack there were atleast 4 Illinois drivers. If I cannot go atleast 75 MPH, I get pissed and start to weave in and out of traffic to bypass the congestion.

Well once I started weaving in and out of these Illinois drivers, I must have reminded them of Chicago because all of a sudden there were atleast three Illinois drivers weaving in and out following my lead. Then, two of them flew by me at 15-20 MPH over the limit (very dumb in Racine/Kenosha, extremely dumb with Illinois plates).

No one got pulled over, but I see Illinois plates parked infront of the sheriff and his flashing lights several times everyweek.

I think that "M" fountain would be pretty cool if done right, tacky if done wrong. The idea has potential.

Exactly. In Dayton, the have a giant fountain in the middle of the fork in the river that shoots water way up in the air every ten or fifteen minutes. It's pretty cool.

http://www.metroparks.org/_riverScape/images/fountain2909pano.jpg

http://www.metroparks.org/_riverScape/images/rotatingImages/Fountains_RMakley06.gif

^^ But on a lake??

I'd be cool with something like that somewhere within the breakwater....maybe between summerfest and lakeshore park...or near the surface parking lot north of the war memorial. we've got a lot of water, we should be showing it off more.

I had dinner in the fifth ward the other night at the Olive Pit. Great pizza. There's so much going on in this area. Does anyone know what's going into First Place from a retail standpoint or any other restaurants/retail going in the area?

first place is getting a small grocer and a coffee/desert bar.

The fountain in Geneva Switz. was used as an example at the time.

http://www.ville-ge.ch/common/img/ot/bref_jet2a.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_d'Eau

There's a rendering of the fountain posted on Flickr. (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=320445955&size=o)

I actually think it would have been kind of cool, though maybe I can say that only because I don't have to look at it in real life. I can think of a few other things I'm glad aren't there though. I also think the Eero Saarinen looks a lot nicer without the Kahler addition. :(

There's a rendering of the fountain posted on Flickr. (http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=320445955&size=o)

I actually think it would have been kind of cool, though maybe I can say that only because I don't have to look at it in real life. I can think of a few other things I'm glad aren't there though. I also think the Eero Saarinen looks a lot nicer without the Kahler addition. :(

Wow that pic is so old. "Lake Freeway"

The Lake Freeway never came into existence. Planned in the 50's-60's the people of Milwaukee put a stop to freeway construction in the 70's and like many other Milwaukee Freeways it was never built.

Wow that pic is so old. "Lake Freeway"

The Lake Freeway never came into existence. Planned in the 50's-60's the people of Milwaukee put a stop to freeway construction in the 70's and like many other Milwaukee Freeways it was never built.

Thank God

Thank God


Yes and No

In the case of the Lake Freeway, that would have totally destroyed our lakefront setting by completely isolating it from the city. Considering the route (Lakeshore Dr) is not a main thoroughfare for the region, it would have been a setback to this day and beyond.

However, in the case of the Belt Freeway our region will never see the benefits of a shorter, quicker and less congested route to Waukesha/Madison/Dells for the thousands of passenger/freight vehicles who currently are forced to use 94 and 894 unnecessarily increasing congestion on those routes.


Question: What is the U.S. without an extensive freeway system?
Answer: Not the $12 Trillion dollar monster we are today.

Question: What is the U.S. without all of these vehicles?
Answer: Not as free, not as powerful and simply not American.

Question: What is the future of the U.S. without clean alternative fuel sources?
Answer: A Nightmare that was proceeded by a dream so powerful that we became rich with complacency and stopped dreaming of greater things. In the end, we will taint the only planet we know of that is suitable for intelligent life.

The only dream we are not capable of achieving is building another planet where our species can thrive. Though we have so much potential, even that may be possible.

Cars=American? I guess you'll have to export me. It's a shame I'm not welcome here.

Yes and No

In the case of the Lake Freeway, that would have totally destroyed our lakefront setting by completely isolating it from the city. Considering the route (Lakeshore Dr) is not a main thoroughfare for the region, it would have been a setback to this day and beyond.

However, in the case of the Belt Freeway our region will never see the benefits of a shorter, quicker and less congested route to Waukesha/Madison/Dells for the thousands of passenger/freight vehicles who currently are forced to use 94 and 894 unnecessarily increasing congestion on those routes.


Question: What is the U.S. without an extensive freeway system?
Answer: Not the $12 Trillion dollar monster we are today.

Question: What is the U.S. without all of these vehicles?
Answer: Not as free, not as powerful and simply not American.

Question: What is the future of the U.S. without clean alternative fuel sources?
Answer: A Nightmare that was proceeded by a dream so powerful that we became rich with complacency and stopped dreaming of greater things. In the end, we will taint the only planet we know of that is suitable for intelligent life.

The only dream we are not capable of achieving is building another planet where our species can thrive. Though we have so much potential, even that may be possible.

Don't you mean Lincoln Memorial Drive?? Lake Shore Drive is in Chicago.

Also, Milwaukee needs to find a happy medium between freeway and transit options. I'm sure if Milwaukee carried a Metra-like system, there wouldn't be such harsh language to proposed extensions or expansions of the freeway system here.

Cars=American? I guess you'll have to export me. It's a shame I'm not welcome here.

Oh calm down MilwaukeeD. You're doing just fine, without having to feel exported.

Don't you mean Lincoln Memorial Drive?? Lake Shore Drive is in Chicago.


Thank You, I was sleepy!


MilwD, cars are about as American as it gets. They offer complete freedom, something that Mass Transit will NEVER be able to do.

MilwD, cars are about as American as it gets. They offer complete freedom, something that Mass Transit will NEVER be able to do.

Ewww... cars.

:barf:

I feel much more free having gotten rid of my car.

When I get somewhere I don't have to worry about where I park. I don't pay attention to gas prices. I don't spend money on insurance or repairs. I don't have to spend time changing oil, washing the car or sitting in traffic. I don't think you realize how much money and time is spent on your car...that doesn't sound like freedom. Dependence on a car isn't freedom at all, independence is freedom.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/135/320445955_83320cc8f3_o.jpg

That picture is old. I didn't know the fountain idea went back that far. I only knew of it when it was apparently resurrected around 1990, more or less. I thought they were talking about something further out in the water on its own, not part of a pavilion.

Actually, the Lake Freeway looks much less imposing than I expected it was going to be. Keep in mind it would have gone up over the bluff only a few blocks to the north of that view. And LMD is still there. But the LM Bridge is gone, that's not cool.

Just got an email for this, should be interesting:

You have a Milwaukee.Gov E-Notification for Development Opportunities/RFP's category.

The City of Milwaukee is seeking proposals for the purchase and development of
1027 North Edison Street, one of the few remaining vacant riverfront parcels in
downtown Milwaukee. Over the past 10 years, the Riverwalk has seen dozens of
restaurants, bars and other businesses open up from the Beerline through the
Downtown to the Third Ward. Located between Old World Third Street and Water
Street (with 172 feet of frontage on the Milwaukee River), this is your chance
to contribute to the vitality of the Riverwalk, as well as the overall resurgence
of downtown Milwaukee.

Please go to our website for the full proposal: http://www.mkedcd.org/realestate/Edison/EdisonMain.html

That's where River Tower was going to go.

Oh boy do cars cost alot of money...that is the truth.

Perhaps my brother said it best the other day when we saw a bus stop while driving:

"Nobody rides the bus in our town and nobody ever will because we are not broke"

I don't worry about gas prices, repairs or any of that stuff because I make more than enough money and it really doesn't concern me. However the environment does concern me and that is why I need alternative fuel sources.

Yes I am dependent on my car but it is because of my career. Mass transit isn't going to allow me to do my job anytime in the near future... more like ever. Without a car, I would not be able to do what I do and make the money I make. Hell, I can even write it off on my taxes!

Plain and simple, Mass Transit has far more limitations than vehicles do...far more.

I am not bashing mass transit as I use it myself in certain cases where it works for me. It is a great form of transportation when done right.

Oh boy do cars cost alot of money...that is the truth.

Perhaps my brother said it best the other day when we saw a bus stop while driving:

"Nobody rides the bus in our town and nobody ever will because we are not broke"

I don't worry about gas prices, repairs or any of that stuff because I make more than enough money and it really doesn't concern me. However the environment does concern me and that is why I need alternative fuel sources.

Yes I am dependent on my car but it is because of my career. Mass transit isn't going to allow me to do my job anytime in the near future... more like ever. Without a car, I would not be able to do what I do and make the money I make. Hell, I can even write it off on my taxes!

Plain and simple, Mass Transit has far more limitations than vehicles do...far more.

I am not bashing mass transit as I use it myself in certain cases where it works for me. It is a great form of transportation when done right.

Ummm....are you looking to be verbally slapped around? I'm not even this gutsy!

It isn't even worth arguing, and this probably isn't the right thread anyway. But I'm not broke, I just choose to spend my money on more worthwhile investments than an automobile.

[QUOTE=MilwaukeeD;14551465]It isn't even worth arguing, and this probably isn't the right thread anyway. [QUOTE]

I agree with you 100% on that. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree...there are many on each side of the issue.

BTW...I never ment to imply that you or anyone else who uses mass transit is broke by default.

I agree with you 100% on that. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree...

What? :lol:

But seriously, it's okay to disagree... that's the beauty of debate and discussion! If we all agreed with each other we'd never come back to this forum.

I'm all for mass transit too but like FutureChicaukeean, I can't use it to get to my job. I work in both New Berlin & Delafield. Give me a commuter rail line within reasonable walking distance of both jobs and I'll ditch my car in a heartbeat.

I feel much more free having gotten rid of my car.

When I get somewhere I don't have to worry about where I park. I don't pay attention to gas prices. I don't spend money on insurance or repairs. I don't have to spend time changing oil, washing the car or sitting in traffic. I don't think you realize how much money and time is spent on your car...that doesn't sound like freedom. Dependence on a car isn't freedom at all, independence is freedom.

No offense, but I'd guess you are very single (ie. no significant other and no children) at this time. Because, generally speaking, unless you have a mate and kids willing/able to walk, bike and mass commute everywhere, you just need a car. Sorry.

Oh boy do cars cost alot of money...that is the truth.

Perhaps my brother said it best the other day when we saw a bus stop while driving:

"Nobody rides the bus in our town and nobody ever will because we are not broke"

I don't worry about gas prices, repairs or any of that stuff because I make more than enough money and it really doesn't concern me. However the environment does concern me and that is why I need alternative fuel sources.

Yes I am dependent on my car but it is because of my career. Mass transit isn't going to allow me to do my job anytime in the near future... more like ever. Without a car, I would not be able to do what I do and make the money I make. Hell, I can even write it off on my taxes!

Plain and simple, Mass Transit has far more limitations than vehicles do...far more.

I am not bashing mass transit as I use it myself in certain cases where it works for me. It is a great form of transportation when done right.

Yep, you're "gutsy" alright, but just telling it like it is. Point is, there are just way too many jobs (especially in sales) that require a car. Mass transit cannot work for those who need to get around spontaneously. However, for those jobs where the person has a desk/office job and they get in at 8 and leave at 5, mass transit makes sense. As does car pooling, for that matter.

Wow I can't believe it... I post something that I thought would get me abused on this board (like brew suggested) and people come to my back.

Wow I can't believe it... I post something that I thought would get me abused on this board (like brew suggested) and people come to my back.

What can I say? You just simply weren't ME! If I would have said that, I think I would have been banned from the site. So, from now on, can you be my representative on transit issues? :)

READY TO RISE

http://www.biztimes.com/nf/uploads/Image/Page12.jpg

A 14-story mixed-use building under construction at the southeast corner of Juneau Avenue and Water Street in downtown Milwaukee will be one of the first high-rise buildings to use a new precast truss building system. The system shortens construction time considerably and allows for more flexibility in the use of the interior space in the building. It also improves soundproofing and fire protection for the building.

> Continue Story (http://www.biztimes.com/news/2007/7/20/ready-to-rise)

http://members.rennlist.com/adamation/KoolAid.jpg

OH YEAH!!!


I just thought something needed to be posted!

I have a question for you guys.

I will be moving to Milwaukee around late December or early January, 10 years after moving out (yay!) and am in the hunt for a good apartment. I would like to get one somewhere along the lake or in a highrise in the city. So far, I've been looking at Catholic Knights, since it offers spectacular views (probably the best I've seen) of the city, and it is within walking distance to my classes at Marquette. Rent.com and the others just seem to scratch the surface when it comes to apartments in the Milwaukee area. I am looking for something which matches my above criteria, but still pretty cheap. I don't care about size at all and would be happy with a studio.

Do you guys know of any place which is remarkably affordable, but still matches my criteria of being a downtown/lakefront highrise/midrise? Thanks in advance for your help!

If you are going to be at MU, Catholic Knights is probably a good option for what you are looking for.

You may also want to check the Majestic (at Grand Avenue). They have affordable units that you may qualify for.

MilwD, cars are about as American as it gets. They offer complete freedom, something that Mass Transit will NEVER be able to do.

Complete freedom... Where are you getting this? Mass transit offers complete freedom from heavy enviromental damage, complete freedom from traffic, complete freedom from America's #1 killer (cars, if you couldn't figure it out), complete freedom from maintenance costs, gas costs, and insurance costs. Mass transit doesn't provide freedom? That's news to me.

So basically you are arguing that the rail system this city was built upon was un-American? How foolish.

And apparently, Manhattan is un-American because over half of the people there don't own cars.

And apparently, Manhattan is un-American because over half of the people there don't own cars.

Commies!

If you are going to be at MU, Catholic Knights is probably a good option for what you are looking for.

You may also want to check the Majestic (at Grand Avenue). They have affordable units that you may qualify for.

Thanks MilwaukeeD, those were a couple that I was aware of and have looked into. I'm wondering if there are any lesser known apartments along the lakefront (like on Prospect), other than the obvious ones like Yankee and Juneau. There was one smaller midrise along the lakefront (can't remember the name) which was about $700 for about 500SQFT and included heat.

Anyway, I will be in town today taking down numbers and information, so hopefully I'll have a better idea after that.

Maybe freedom was the wrong word. You guys took it and started spinning things around.

If you can't figure out what I meant, you are grasping at straws for the sake of argument.


Manhattan Island has a population 3X the size of the entire city of Milwaukee.

Since many use Mass Transit because it makes sense (No other area in the US has that kind of density) it means they are unamerican??? See the bold above.

I guess we should all be forced to live in areas as dense as Manhattan because then the majority of people will use Mass Transit. Hmmm...kinda sounds like a communist notion doesn't it?:ohno:

But I will give you something:) ... no one uses cars in Manhattan. The streets are pretty much empty proving that one of the best mass transit systems in the world has eliminated the need for cars in that area.

Guys, let's get back on topic, please. This debate has little to do with development.

The staybrigde suites building is going to be a fine addition and just down the street from my condo.

As far as this freedom debate of cars vs. public transportation you all are sounding like the propaganda machine for the white house. "they hate us for our freedom" so now i introduce the patriot act and they uh uh still hate us. :ohno:

Thanks MilwaukeeD, those were a couple that I was aware of and have looked into. I'm wondering if there are any lesser known apartments along the lakefront (like on Prospect), other than the obvious ones like Yankee and Juneau. There was one smaller midrise along the lakefront (can't remember the name) which was about $700 for about 500SQFT and included heat.

Anyway, I will be in town today taking down numbers and information, so hopefully I'll have a better idea after that.

There are abunch of smaller buildings along Prospect that are cheaper than the better know ones and still have great views. There's also one just west of Farwell and south of Brady that has good views. Otherwise, you might try some of the buildings on Wisconsin just west of Marquette. They're a little cheaper and are aimed at students. Some of them probably have pretty good views.

Guys, let's get back on topic, please. This debate has little to do with development.

I'd say rather the argument is entirely pertinent, Chicaukee's mindset is, lamentably, the kind that those supporting both light rail in urban Milwaukee and commuter rail for connecting the suburbs will have to face from surburban politics.

It's really quite sad to see this absolutist nonsense, the 'Oh, you support mass transit so you obviously believe we should all be working skyscrapers' bullshit. A well developed rail system can more closely integrate the metropolitan area without the use and detriments of cars. People need to have choice, otherwise you care chaining them to expensive, dangerous and dirty machines, and that's not very free at all. Remember please that being pro-transit is not being anti-car. This city is not Manhattan, but it is far too dense to be built entirely on the car.

All posts on transit have been moved to--surprise, surprise--the thread on transit:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=436421

Like I've said before, I don't know why you guys insist on cramming every conceivable Milwaukee-related topic into this tiny thread when you have the entire Midwest forum at your disposal.

Marcus Center solicits proposals for mixed-use development
The Business Journal of Milwaukee - 12:13 PM CDT Friday, August 3, 2007


The Marcus Center for the Performing Arts in Milwaukee is soliciting proposals for a mixed-use development on the property where the Center's 700-car parking garage now sits.

The 2.44 acre site is surrounded by North Water Street on the east, East State Street in the south, North Edison Street on the west and East Highland Avenue on the north. The property is zoned for residential, retail and office use.

The Marcus Center officials are promoting the site for a public-private partnership that would generate profits for a developer and revenue opportunities, like parking fees, for the Marcus Center.

"The Marcus Center has been very committed to seeing the best use for this prime piece of property in downtown Milwaukee," said Paul Mathews, president of the Marcus Center. "While we have been working on this project for a number of years the market may be better now. We're looking for some fresh ideas for what will be a signature project for the Marcus Center and the city."

Proposals should delivered by 4 p.m. on Sept. 7 to the Marcus Center. For the proposal request document, visit www.marcuscenter.org or call 414-273-7121.

Can someone please post the updated/renovated Chase building pics? Or whatever that is...

It is for sure happening, right?

All posts on transit have been moved to--surprise, surprise--the thread on transit:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=436421

Like I've said before, I don't know why you guys insist on cramming every conceivable Milwaukee-related topic into this tiny thread when you have the entire Midwest forum at your disposal.

We don't want to "sprawl out" the Midwest forum.....

Can someone please post the updated/renovated Chase building pics? Or whatever that is...

You mean the thing proposed for the Chase Tower Garage site?

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9425/chasetowergaragejs2.jpg

It is for sure happening, right?

No, it is not for sure happening.

From JS Online:

A Milwaukee firm that has developed housing throughout the downtown area has acquired a group of buildings in the Walker's Point area, near the Milwaukee River.

Mandel Group Inc. announced today that it has purchased six buildings, totaling 206,000 square feet, and land parcels, comprising over 3 acres, at 322-344 E. Florida St. The purchase price was not disclosed.

The buildings, some as high as ten stories, are commonly referred to as the "Wisconsin Cold Storage" property due to the large historic sign band painted along the top of the buildings. Mandel Group said it's working on various development plans for the property, which is on the north side of E. Florida St., just west of S. Water St.

I'd say rather the argument is entirely pertinent, Chicaukee's mindset is, lamentably, the kind that those supporting both light rail in urban Milwaukee and commuter rail for connecting the suburbs will have to face from surburban politics.

It's really quite sad to see this absolutist nonsense, the 'Oh, you support mass transit so you obviously believe we should all be working skyscrapers' bullshit. A well developed rail system can more closely integrate the metropolitan area without the use and detriments of cars. People need to have choice, otherwise you care chaining them to expensive, dangerous and dirty machines, and that's not very free at all. Remember please that being pro-transit is not being anti-car. This city is not Manhattan, but it is far too dense to be built entirely on the car.

Man, you choo choo train fanatics are certainly a tightly wound bunch. :banana:
CGII, your comment "This city is not Manhattan, but it is far too dense to be built entirely on the car" is your opinion, not anything resembling fact. The fact that Milwaukee has no recent history with dependency on mass transit (besides buses) just shows that we have grown up without it. Older, compact and mega cities had to develop a rail system out of...NEED.

No, it's not as sexy or glamerous to announce bridge repairs instead of a downtown loop trolley that would essentially transport bar hoppers and a few tourists here and there. The trolley is a waste of money IMO. And, as for a light rail system, the outrageous cost to build one does not justify the need. Notice how this is backward? Unfortunately, that's how some glory-seeking politicians like to do things. If the need is there, then look into it -- or expanding the current transit system which already works just fine. But just to pine for a train because it's the "green thing to do" or because it's cool is not the best reason.

Marcus Center solicits proposals for mixed-use development
The Business Journal of Milwaukee - 12:13 PM CDT Friday, August 3, 2007


The Marcus Center for the Performing Arts in Milwaukee is soliciting proposals for a mixed-use development on the property where the Center's 700-car parking garage now sits.

The 2.44 acre site is surrounded by North Water Street on the east, East State Street in the south, North Edison Street on the west and East Highland Avenue on the north. The property is zoned for residential, retail and office use.

The Marcus Center officials are promoting the site for a public-private partnership that would generate profits for a developer and revenue opportunities, like parking fees, for the Marcus Center.

"The Marcus Center has been very committed to seeing the best use for this prime piece of property in downtown Milwaukee," said Paul Mathews, president of the Marcus Center. "While we have been working on this project for a number of years the market may be better now. We're looking for some fresh ideas for what will be a signature project for the Marcus Center and the city."

Proposals should delivered by 4 p.m. on Sept. 7 to the Marcus Center. For the proposal request document, visit www.marcuscenter.org or call 414-273-7121.

Didn't they already do this once a year or so ago?

Didn't they already do this once a year or so ago?

No. The Marcus Center's previous attempts to redevelop the parking structure site was a partnership between the MC and Irgens Development. None of their plans ever came to fruition though, for various reasons, so the partnership has been discontinued.

This time around, the Marcus Center is opening up the request for proposals to any interested developers, with the hope that broadening the prospects and starting over from scratch will produce more successful results at getting the parking garage redeveloped.

All posts on transit have been moved to--surprise, surprise--the thread on transit:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=436421

Like I've said before, I don't know why you guys insist on cramming every conceivable Milwaukee-related topic into this tiny thread when you have the entire Midwest forum at your disposal.

Man, you choo choo train fanatics are certainly a tightly wound bunch.
CGII, your comment "This city is not Manhattan, but it is far too dense to be built entirely on the car" is your opinion, not anything resembling fact. The fact that Milwaukee has no recent history with dependency on mass transit (besides buses) just shows that we have grown up without it. Older, compact and mega cities had to develop a rail system out of...NEED.

No, it's not as sexy or glamerous to announce bridge repairs instead of a downtown loop trolley that would essentially transport bar hoppers and a few tourists here and there. The trolley is a waste of money IMO. And, as for a light rail system, the outrageous cost to build one does not justify the need. Notice how this is backward? Unfortunately, that's how some glory-seeking politicians like to do things. If the need is there, then look into it -- or expanding the current transit system which already works just fine. But just to pine for a train because it's the "green thing to do" or because it's cool is not the best reason.

Way to go!

You know, until the 1990's, Milwaukee was rapidly declining into oblivion. It took LEADERSHIP with VISION and IDEAS and COURAGE to inject real viable life and hope back into it.
None of this, because it must have seemed like a ridiculous pipe dream at the time it began, could have been accounted as "reasonable".
"Reasonable" now will result in the inevitabiliy of the demand for more expressways, because the vision needed to plant the seeds of a more robust mass-transit system, while there is still opportunity, and help them grow, is getting fretful, and starting to feel entirely satisfied with the way things always are.
Who needs those "bar hoppers and...tourists" anyway?

Thanks MilwaukeeD, those were a couple that I was aware of and have looked into. I'm wondering if there are any lesser known apartments along the lakefront (like on Prospect), other than the obvious ones like Yankee and Juneau. There was one smaller midrise along the lakefront (can't remember the name) which was about $700 for about 500SQFT and included heat.

Anyway, I will be in town today taking down numbers and information, so hopefully I'll have a better idea after that.

I just moved from a place downtown (on the 800 block of Cass St) owned by Katz, rent went for $490, but they were asking $580 for this year. Across the street there's a building called the Colonial, that rented around $450. Both of the buildings are studios, but you're a couple blocks to the lake, and the MAM.

So apparently there is a rumour that Ruvin's project for the parcel that includes the Sydney Hih and Gipfel Brewery has fallen through.

Man, you choo choo train fanatics are certainly a tightly wound bunch. :banana:
CGII, your comment "This city is not Manhattan, but it is far too dense to be built entirely on the car" is your opinion, not anything resembling fact. The fact that Milwaukee has no recent history with dependency on mass transit (besides buses) just shows that we have grown up without it. Older, compact and mega cities had to develop a rail system out of...NEED.

No, it's not as sexy or glamerous to announce bridge repairs instead of a downtown loop trolley that would essentially transport bar hoppers and a few tourists here and there. The trolley is a waste of money IMO. And, as for a light rail system, the outrageous cost to build one does not justify the need. Notice how this is backward? Unfortunately, that's how some glory-seeking politicians like to do things. If the need is there, then look into it -- or expanding the current transit system which already works just fine. But just to pine for a train because it's the "green thing to do" or because it's cool is not the best reason.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=14653575&postcount=657

So apparently there is a rumour that Ruvin's project for the parcel that includes the Sydney Hih and Gipfel Brewery has fallen through.

That would be a terrible blow to the Park East. That was the project I was most looking forward too. The city needs to step in and assist this one if true.

-----

On another note, that Chase parking garage proposal looks like set design for a trippy low-budget movie about an alternate-future Mayan metropolis thriller. Is it strange that I can picture some sort of crappy actor like Jake Busey holding a glowing orb at the top of that building and screaming to the gods?

In other words, bleh!

That would be a terrible blow to the Park East. That was the project I was most looking forward too. The city needs to step in and assist this one if true.

Good luck with that. Ruvin wanted perhaps a TIF, which apparently the city doesn't want to hand out TIFs. TIFs have been a very unpopular topic on this thread as well.

Mr. Marcus has led the way against new hotels in downtown Milwaukee, especially those hotels that are direct competition to his: InterContinental, Pfister, and Hilton. The Kimpton would have been direct competition with the InterContinental.

brew> This had very little to do with Marcus corp. This had everything to do with the fact the city has already spent 20 million on infrastructure for the Park East. Further the downtown market study backed up DCDs belief that TIFing the Park East was un-needed and/or not deservered. i.e. the Park East land should sell itself. The study did also mention other hotel locations that may require/deserve a TIF so clearly if the city supports those projects we will be able to drop this "its Marcus Corps fault"? stuff and realize that not all projects deserve/require a TIF?

Ruvin knew the deal and thought they could play politics via the media to put pressure on to get a handout.

The hilarity of Park East continues.

After what I'm seeing in little Franklin, WI - I wouldn't be at all surprised if studies are influenced by big names like Mr. Marcus.

I guess I viewed the TIF differently on the Ruvin proposal because it included historic preservation of the Gipfel and Sidney Hih.

Doom> help me here what's so funny? Lets see has taking down the freeway helped the North End become developable? yes (currently under demolition), help spur interest in redeveloping the Pabst? hell yea... make the Staybridge lots more appealing to be developed... yes... And of course the FlatIron is almost done. The Park East is a HUGE amount of land to become available in a city so its going to take awhile to develop...

Further after removing an ugly freeway spur weren't we supposed to see congestion hell? And the death of downtown business? Gee neither happened... Now that's funny.

I honestly don't see why small projects such as the FlatIron are praised so much. The Milwaukee condo market is still going strong, yet developers choose to build such small buildings even outside of the Third Ward. For example, what's with those condos/apartments along the Milwaukee River on what? State or Highland? I mean, tacky, small, and not very downtownish. Then you have FlatIron, which is what? 6 stories? The North End will be what? 10 stories??

I mean, it's very unimpressive - especially along a big attractive river called the Milwaukee River. I don't know, perhaps that's what is so funny about this - you got all these open parcels of land that downtown Chicago would looove to have, and what do we get? Proposals that sprawl out one single building and only about 20 stories tops.

I honestly don't see why small projects such as the FlatIron are praised so much. The Milwaukee condo market is still going strong, yet developers choose to build such small buildings even outside of the Third Ward. For example, what's with those condos/apartments along the Milwaukee River on what? State or Highland? I mean, tacky, small, and not very downtownish. Then you have FlatIron, which is what? 6 stories? The North End will be what? 10 stories??

I mean, it's very unimpressive - especially along a big attractive river called the Milwaukee River. I don't know, perhaps that's what is so funny about this - you got all these open parcels of land that downtown Chicago would looove to have, and what do we get? Proposals that sprawl out one single building and only about 20 stories tops.

amen.

For example, what's with those condos/apartments along the Milwaukee River on what? State or Highland? I mean, tacky, small, and not very downtownish.

Those were built in the 80's and downtown was desperate for anything at the time. No one would ever rebuild those today.

Hmm....why is downtown Chicago such an attractive place to be? I bet transit has nothing to do with it...

You see, in Milwaukee, when you build a 20 story building, you need to build a 500-1,000-car parking garage along with it. Which makes it infeasible to do without subsidy.

I don't support transit because I like choo-choo trains. I support it because we could have a lot more development if we started acting like the big city we all want Milwaukee to become.

I honestly don't see why small projects such as the FlatIron are praised so much. The Milwaukee condo market is still going strong, yet developers choose to build such small buildings even outside of the Third Ward. For example, what's with those condos/apartments along the Milwaukee River on what? State or Highland? I mean, tacky, small, and not very downtownish. Then you have FlatIron, which is what? 6 stories? The North End will be what? 10 stories??

I mean, it's very unimpressive - especially along a big attractive river called the Milwaukee River. I don't know, perhaps that's what is so funny about this - you got all these open parcels of land that downtown Chicago would looove to have, and what do we get? Proposals that sprawl out one single building and only about 20 stories tops.


Eh? Building big doesn't necessarily mean 'building higher than 20 floors,' if that's what you mean. I never imagined I'd hear of someone complaining that the North End wasn't daring to be big enough:

http://www.mandelgroup.com/condominiums/condo_detail.cfm?c_id=8

Doom> help me here what's so funny? Lets see has taking down the freeway helped the North End become developable? yes (currently under demolition), help spur interest in redeveloping the Pabst? hell yea... make the Staybridge lots more appealing to be developed... yes... And of course the FlatIron is almost done. The Park East is a HUGE amount of land to become available in a city so its going to take awhile to develop...

Further after removing an ugly freeway spur weren't we supposed to see congestion hell? And the death of downtown business? Gee neither happened... Now that's funny.

To me, the hilarity is - You have these developers who purchase parcels and come up with fantastic proposals, without the slightest hint of asking for a TIF. Once approved, they ask for TIFs that I now understand shouldn't be awarded just for the sake of being awarded. Then the project goes defunct or gets immensely scaled back.

The North End is a fantastic development to me, BTW. Its good to see its moving along. The demolition seems to have gone full steam ahead in recent weeks.

doomer_mp3> Both Ruvin and RSC were fully aware of DCDs stance on TIFing the Park East they both just tried to play politics thru the media. Further I believe the only approvals they've gotten were an option to buy the land from the County.

Finally RSCs proposal was far from "fantastic". yippie Krispe Kreme NOT!

amen.

Thanks for the confidence vote! :lol:

Those were built in the 80's and downtown was desperate for anything at the time. No one would ever rebuild those today.

Hmm....why is downtown Chicago such an attractive place to be? I bet transit has nothing to do with it...

You see, in Milwaukee, when you build a 20 story building, you need to build a 500-1,000-car parking garage along with it. Which makes it infeasible to do without subsidy.

I don't support transit because I like choo-choo trains. I support it because we could have a lot more development if we started acting like the big city we all want Milwaukee to become.

If you keep talking transit, MilwaukeeD, you're sooner or later going to become part of the train! The point of downtown Chicago was, on those parcels of land available in the Park East corridor, you could easily fit the John Hancock Tower and Water Tower Place on a single square block! But no, what do we have? Some measily 20-story job that will only be seen if you perhaps come from I-43 N. I mean, all this land for what? Squat??

Hey, I agree that transit is big, but if Kilbourn and UCT can do it next to each other...on a smaller parcel of land than the majority of the Park East...then what's going on here?

Eh? Building big doesn't necessarily mean 'building higher than 20 floors,' if that's what you mean. I never imagined I'd hear of someone complaining that the North End wasn't daring to be big enough:

http://www.mandelgroup.com/condominiums/condo_detail.cfm?c_id=8

CGII - I love the Mandel project, don't get me wrong there. I clap my hands for them! However, once Mandel is done with The North End, it's gonna be there for how long? 100 years perhaps?? before it gets redone into something else. The Milwaukee River is gaining in popularity by the week. I mean, wasn't that MLG who proposed that 30+ story tower on Water and McKinley...right next to The North End? That's what Milwaukee needs, not a bunch of smaller buildings. What tops it off is, The North End is mostly residential, correct? Residential is hot HOT in Milwaukee - they could have easily sold units, IMO, if they would have built taller on that parcel. The River just almost secures that.

doomer_mp3> Both Ruvin and RSC were fully aware of DCDs stance on TIFing the Park East they both just tried to play politics thru the media. Further I believe the only approvals they've gotten were an option to buy the land from the County.

Finally RSCs proposal was far from "fantastic". yippie Krispe Kreme NOT!

Hey, not saying it was fantastic here, but at least it was a decent sized building. Oh, and Krispy Kreme....I mean even Downtown Chicago has those! You need some quickie fast food joints downtown as well as higher end bistros. Wasn't RSC saying Hyde Park Steakhouse might be a tenant as well?

CGII - I love the Mandel project, don't get me wrong there. I clap my hands for them! However, once Mandel is done with The North End, it's gonna be there for how long? 100 years perhaps?? before it gets redone into something else. The Milwaukee River is gaining in popularity by the week. I mean, wasn't that MLG who proposed that 30+ story tower on Water and McKinley...right next to The North End? That's what Milwaukee needs, not a bunch of smaller buildings. What tops it off is, The North End is mostly residential, correct? Residential is hot HOT in Milwaukee - they could have easily sold units, IMO, if they would have built taller on that parcel. The River just almost secures that.

Hey, not saying it was fantastic here, but at least it was a decent sized building. Oh, and Krispy Kreme....I mean even Downtown Chicago has those! You need some quickie fast food joints downtown as well as higher end bistros. Wasn't RSC saying Hyde Park Steakhouse might be a tenant as well?

Fully expecting the wrath of Skyking2 here, I will say that I don't think Park East's success will depend on > 20 story buildings. I see nothing wrong with the soft-limit of 20 stories in the Park East area. Density is going to be key there. The North End seems like a dense, well thought out development. Who's to say it will last only 100 years? There are quite a few parcels of land still available in the CBD and immediate areas of it for highrise development.

As for the RSC development, I really didn't see much wrong with it either. Condos, apartments, retail, restaurants... Krispy Kreme was but a name in a long list, not a certain.

I think it might be just a bit rash to be designing buildings for 100 years ahead of us, right now. Do you think the developers responsible for Wisconsin Gas would have proposed 80 additional floors just because of a notion that it might not be up to par with its modern neighbours and demand a century down the road? Let's design our buildings for the present and forseeable future, please.

Hey, I agree that transit is big, but if Kilbourn and UCT can do it next to each other...on a smaller parcel of land than the majority of the Park East...then what's going on here?

Kilbourn Tower and UTC both have lake and Calatrava views. The Park East has neither. In addition, both are filled with condos around $1 million and up. Milwaukee doesn't have enough people with that kind of money to fill up too many more towers...and the Park East is the last place most wealthy people would want to live in...they would generally pick lake views or something along the river. Finally, both of those towers only have somewhere around 45-50 units, which means there are a LOT less parking spaces needed.

A 30-story tower with regular-sized units would require several hundred parking spaces. Just look at Park Lafayette...they were digging a hole for about 8 months to fit all of their parking in. Until transit is a viable option in Milwaukee, particularly to and from downtown, we will not see the type of development that we all want to see (without massive subsidy). Chicago has a vibrant downtown because I would venture to guess that half of the people arrive there through some form of mass transit, thus creating pedestrian activity and allowing larger towers to be built without providing as much parking.

Agreed MilwaukeeD people just don't understand how the lack of transit in Milwaukee is one of the factors that limits the height and density of ANY project built. Also some seem to think if you wave a magic wand (or give them a TIF) somebody will build like 10 40 storey towers along the river and somehow they will be profitable. But the reality is to build tall towers in Milwaukee you have to go with very high pricepoints (partially due to the parking situation) and then unfortunately you actually end up with fairly low density like Kilbourn Tower and UCT. They look great but don't add a whole lot to the vibrancy of the neighborhood due to the limited numbers of units per floor.

Further RSC was a glorified strip mall who never had a Flag, never had any of the big tenants they claimed to have and wanted the City to TIF them when the public would recieved no public good in return... aka a street a riverwalk a park.

you know, despite the obvious lack of height on the wisconsin gas building, i still think its one of my favorite buildings in the city. I still cant help imagining how great it would look if it were 40-50 storys though.

I think it might be just a bit rash to be designing buildings for 100 years ahead of us, right now. Do you think the developers responsible for Wisconsin Gas would have proposed 80 additional floors just because of a notion that it might not be up to par with its modern neighbours and demand a century down the road? Let's design our buildings for the present and forseeable future, please.

Hey, I am talking about the forseeable future. I think the great discounting of Milwaukee currently is the Milwaukee River. For that, read after the next quote. Concerning your Wisconsin Gas example....they built according to the demand of what's inside the building. Currently, there's much demand for downtown residential units. It's not like we're biting tooth and nail to land one condo owner.

Kilbourn Tower and UTC both have lake and Calatrava views. The Park East has neither. In addition, both are filled with condos around $1 million and up. Milwaukee doesn't have enough people with that kind of money to fill up too many more towers...and the Park East is the last place most wealthy people would want to live in...they would generally pick lake views or something along the river. Finally, both of those towers only have somewhere around 45-50 units, which means there are a LOT less parking spaces needed.

A 30-story tower with regular-sized units would require several hundred parking spaces. Just look at Park Lafayette...they were digging a hole for about 8 months to fit all of their parking in. Until transit is a viable option in Milwaukee, particularly to and from downtown, we will not see the type of development that we all want to see (without massive subsidy). Chicago has a vibrant downtown because I would venture to guess that half of the people arrive there through some form of mass transit, thus creating pedestrian activity and allowing larger towers to be built without providing as much parking.

OK - using your UCT/KT example, who's to say that a building with similar indoor layouts wouldn't work in the Park East? You bypassed but then hit on it - the Milwaukee River will be a great view. There's also residents who would like a high rise perspective in their living, more so than perhaps a lake view or a view of MAM. I also say, don't underestimate the wealth of our neighbors to the south. Milwaukeeians naturally underestimate Chicagoans, even up to today. It truly frustrates me! You got the 2nd wealthiest county in America, Cook County, less than an hour's drive away, but yet we follow the philosophy of "let's not market there!" or "c'mon, we don't have THAT many millionaires!" YES WE DO! The Chicago market is more tuned into Milwaukee events and sights ever since MAM got the Calatrava. You see the Third Ward condos selling like hot cakes particularly in thanks to Chicagoans buying not one, but two condos (one for them, one to rent).

Once again, I will say yes to getting different transit options, but I still see potential even without the transit link. The Moderne is what? 30 stories?? and apparently doesn't need it. Once again, if a UCT/KT designed building plopped there, I don't think there would be a transit disaster lurking in the shadows.

Agreed MilwaukeeD people just don't understand how the lack of transit in Milwaukee is one of the factors that limits the height and density of ANY project built. Also some seem to think if you wave a magic wand (or give them a TIF) somebody will build like 10 40 storey towers along the river and somehow they will be profitable. But the reality is to build tall towers in Milwaukee you have to go with very high pricepoints (partially due to the parking situation) and then unfortunately you actually end up with fairly low density like Kilbourn Tower and UCT. They look great but don't add a whole lot to the vibrancy of the neighborhood due to the limited numbers of units per floor.

Further RSC was a glorified strip mall who never had a Flag, never had any of the big tenants they claimed to have and wanted the City to TIF them when the public would recieved no public good in return... aka a street a riverwalk a park.

Great, well I'm glad some of you decided to become the know-it-alls for transit, but I'm sure others do get the drift, as I do, that yeah...transit is necessary. Also, did anyone say "Let's wave the magic TIF wand!"? Please show me if someone did! And funny enough, it sounds like you're extremely unsatisfied with UCT and KT because of density.... Perhaps we need to calm down about density and start looking at better ways of making our downtown look more attractive to outsiders, which UCT and KT currently have done.

As for RSC, you're fine to have your opinion. I think we established the respectful "agree to disagree" stance a while back. I just think you know the developer personally and hate him or something. It's not that ridiculously out of whack with other downtown developments. We don't know what they had planned for the site, when you think about it. We never really gave them the chance. All the guy did was name off some POSSIBLE tenants, some extremely interested tenants, but I don't think it was finalized to the point of him telling the city, "Yeah, this is what you'll get when you approve my TIF!" I also say downtown needs variety - stores like that need to be downtown as well as high end.

Anyone want to post the image updates for Milwaukee's Intermodal Station project?
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/state/amtrak-july.htm

brew> no i don't know anyone at RSC. Anyhow as far as UCT and Kilbourn they do look ok (except for UCTs silver can portion how ugly) but tall buildings don't equal a vibrant downtown. Dense buildings do. For example the little 5 er 6 story building right next to Kilbroun tower in all likelyhood has more people living in it.

Further have you seen a project you thought the city shouldn't TIF?

...tall buildings don't equal a vibrant downtown. Dense buildings do.

Exactly. A nice skyline is great, but doesn't necessarily make a city great. I don't think too many people walk through a place like Paris and bemoan the lack of skyscrapers everywhere. The same could be said about the Third Ward. It seems to me the key in the Park East is to create a dense, livable, energetic neighborhood. Very tall buildings could be a part of that, but aren't prerequisite.

brew> no i don't know anyone at RSC. Anyhow as far as UCT and Kilbourn they do look ok (except for UCTs silver can portion how ugly) but tall buildings don't equal a vibrant downtown. Dense buildings do. For example the little 5 er 6 story building right next to Kilbroun tower in all likelyhood has more people living in it.

While that's great, what does that do to help our image? I don't know about other peoples' opinions, but I think Milwaukee needs an image booster, and a decent cluster of 25-35 story buildings along the Milwaukee River and Park East can add to an image of high quality, urban setting. You got the Chase Tower, the Chase Tower addition, 100 E Wisconsin, the Milwaukee Center, and then it just drops off...alrighty then!

I mean, fine if you're all for density density density. But let's also look at issues that will help promote our downtown area better, that will lure more wealthy residents to downtown.

Also, I don't believe I said tall buildings equal a vibrant downtown, but Water Street currently can be very vibrant as it is.

Further have you seen a project you thought the city shouldn't TIF?

What does that have to do with anything?

Exactly. A nice skyline is great, but doesn't necessarily make a city great. I don't think too many people walk through a place like Paris and bemoan the lack of skyscrapers everywhere. The same could be said about the Third Ward. It seems to me the key in the Park East is to create a dense, livable, energetic neighborhood. Very tall buildings could be a part of that, but aren't prerequisite.

Well, Paris and Milwaukee are two completely different cities. But even with current proposals at the Park East, for example, you only have one building complex taking up a parcel that could fit much, much more on it. I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound too "dense" either.

HUGE DEVELOPMENT NEWS!!

Lakefront brewery has a new website (http://www.lakefrontbrewery.com).

I don't know why they can't have a taller website. Taller websites are more valid than shorter websites even if the shorter website has more information in it.

While I have kind of given up on this thread because it no longer has much to do with development news... I thought I would pop in and mention that Park Lafayette seems to have risen above street level now.

I guess it all depends on what you consider to be "development" news. Thanks for the info on P.E!

If we didn't talk about issues, this would be one boring thread!

brew> Well improved density of population leads to a vibrant streetlife, plenty of customers for business, lower transit times and so on... As John Norquist said "Proximity is a magnifier, a catalyst that helps culture and commerce blossom when diverse people interact."

Yea some tall buildings in the corridor would be great but they have to be economicaly feasible, they have to have developers who know what they are doing and finally mass transit would make projects like these more possible.

Well, density or not, we shall have vibrant streetlife on some parts of downtown. And of course, we all know that mass transit is great to have.

I think developers could go a great job at making feasible, profitable residential tower developments.

That said I guess I must disagree with brew here in that without density (#s of people) you can not have vibrancy. Note it is not the only criteria but it is needed.

I guess we can look at our own downtown for an example.

Would you say that our downtown is more vibrant than it has ever been?

I think most would.

Well, our downtown is about to become more populated than it has ever been (even when Milwaukee topped 700,000 residents).

I see a correlation that cannot be ignored.

I guess we can look at our own downtown for an example.

Would you say that our downtown is more vibrant than it has ever been?

I think most would.

Well, our downtown is about to become more populated than it has ever been (even when Milwaukee topped 700,000 residents).

I see a correlation that cannot be ignored.

I think that density is the nr. 1 issue with downtown's development but I think it is more than just the density of the actual apartments being built downtown. I think it has a lot to do with the situation in the neighborhoods around downtown (which is great on the East Side and at Marquette but otherwise a pretty big issue) and the way people get into downtown (ie public transit). I think that downtown was more vibrant up through the 40's and 50's because of a combination of all of these things and not necessarily because of big buildings or ample parking. I know that we can't just replicate the past but we can see what worked then and would still work now.

With regards to the whole skyscrapers and image thing, I think that the high of buildings is irrelevant to the image Milwaukee gets. I think having a well functioning vibrant downtown and inner city neighborhoods will do a lot more for our image that 1000 Kilbourn Towers (although I think that is a beautiful building). Look at Paris and London and any other place in Europe, or even Boston or San Francisco. They're memorable cities partially because they don't focus on having tall buildings.

I know this topic has been visited before, and maybe here isn't the place to do it again, but I just wanted to get something quick off my chest so I feel better about it before moving on with my day:

I just can't defend Milwaukee any more. Not because I don't want to, but because people don't listen to me, or won't hear what I'm saying. I hear so many bad opinions on Milwaukee from people it's unbelievable (related to crime, decaying architecture, rustbelt-ness, racial make-up, etc.). It's like they can't "see" positives occurring, even if they are aware of them.

The latest round of rips (I'll call them) came from people living in and around Madison (which you can make something out of in itself), but are originally from Green Bay, Minneapolis, Nebraska, Iowa, and bumfuck-Wisconsin. None of which are actually FROM Madison (like me).

The last 5 people (or groups of people) I've told about the Public Market (for example) had no idea it existed, or they couldn't grasp the concept. Has Milwaukee's chamber, visitors bureau, etc. really done that poor of a job marketing the city, or is it that they don't try? I suppose the issue probably goes about 10 layers deeper than I've suggested, but I need a simple, one-paragraph answer that I can re-use, damnit.

No one has current images to post of the Intermodal Station?

I know this topic has been visited before, and maybe here isn't the place to do it again, but I just wanted to get something quick off my chest so I feel better about it before moving on with my day:

I just can't defend Milwaukee any more. Not because I don't want to, but because people don't listen to me, or won't hear what I'm saying. I hear so many bad opinions on Milwaukee from people it's unbelievable (related to crime, decaying architecture, rustbelt-ness, racial make-up, etc.). It's like they can't "see" positives occurring, even if they are aware of them.

The latest round of rips (I'll call them) came from people living in and around Madison (which you can make something out of in itself), but are originally from Green Bay, Minneapolis, Nebraska, Iowa, and bumfuck-Wisconsin. None of which are actually FROM Madison (like me).

The last 5 people (or groups of people) I've told about the Public Market (for example) had no idea it existed, or they couldn't grasp the concept. Has Milwaukee's chamber, visitors bureau, etc. really done that poor of a job marketing the city, or is it that they don't try? I suppose the issue probably goes about 10 layers deeper than I've suggested, but I need a simple, one-paragraph answer that I can re-use, damnit.

I don't think it's Milwaukee that isn't trying. It's the people with poor perceptions of this city that refuse to reverse their chain of thought.

At least the people you were talking to that had a bad impression of Milwaukee were mostly from other states and had probably only been here a few times, if at all. Most of the people I talk to like that are from Brookfield, Franklin (sorry Brew, not you) and Oconomowoc.

The biggest people we need to market to are our own suburbanites.


ps, everyone who had a bad impression of Milwaukee who I gave a tour to, completely changed their perception. Milwaukee doesn't always hit you in the face right away with a "wow"...you kinda need to know where to go. It can be pretty easy for someone to spend time downtown and never get to the Third Ward, Brady...or even Jefferson Street. One of those people actually said, "You mean you can walk around at night and not get shot?". They weren't joking.

I think we all know we clearly disagree on many of those aspects. I think both need funding, and I'd like to know what you mean by "affordable" apartments. Because honestly I don't want to see such housing that's comparable to Southlawn, Parklawn, or any other lower income housing along the line. We got enough lower income residents as it is.

I'll give you Parklawn, but Southlawn is Veterans and Middle income housing. the newer developments built with low income tax credits tend to be single family, and loft style apartments. Also, why do you have a problem with low income residents. They certianly need a place to lay their heads. That's a typical suburban attitude of "if I pretend it doesn't exist, then it doesn't" :ohno:

I'll give you Parklawn, but Southlawn is Veterans and Middle income housing. the newer developments built with low income tax credits tend to be single family, and loft style apartments. Also, why do you have a problem with low income residents. They certianly need a place to lay their heads. That's a typical suburban attitude of "if I pretend it doesn't exist, then it doesn't" :ohno:

I don't think it deserves to be stereotypical only on suburbanites. No one wants a bigger influx of lower income residents in their city. I'm all for helping the ones currently here, but I'm not going to promote more of them to flock up from Chicago, Atlanta, or the US/Mexico border. I'm sorry if that offends people, but it's the gosh-darn truth. Building developments for more people on low income tax credits isn't a plus, IMO. I would like to see more middle-income families and more wealthy individuals plant their roots here.

I don't think it deserves to be stereotypical only on suburbanites. No one wants a bigger influx of lower income residents in their city. I'm all for helping the ones currently here, but I'm not going to promote more of them to flock up from Chicago, Atlanta, or the US/Mexico border. I'm sorry if that offends people, but it's the gosh-darn truth. Building developments for more people on low income tax credits isn't a plus, IMO. I would like to see more middle-income families and more wealthy individuals plant their roots here.

I don't think too many poor people will move to milwaukee because we have some low-income tax credit housing. first, every city has that. second, the poor are usually quite immobile due to the $$.

usually these projects serve existing poor populations. and of course, we all want to see more middle class and wealthy people. But there will always be poor people...that's part of capitalism!

finally, I think when twoaday said "affordable"...he didn't mean "low income"...he really just meant cheaper...or normal...units. Downtown is getting harder for people to afford, and it would be nice for those who want easy access to downtown but can't afford it, to be able to live near a transit stop that goes right downtown. These aren't poor people, they just can't afford $1,000/month in rent.

finally, I think when twoaday said "affordable"...he didn't mean "low income"...he really just meant cheaper...or normal...units. Downtown is getting harder for people to afford, and it would be nice for those who want easy access to downtown but can't afford it, to be able to live near a transit stop that goes right downtown. These aren't poor people, they just can't afford $1,000/month in rent.

Exactly! There have been some good efforts made to encourage a diverse mix of housing types and incomes in and around Downtown...and it should most definitely be continued. There's no reason not to include housing opportunities for any particular group of people, from the lower end of the income spectrum to the super-duper wealthy...from young singles/couples/families to aging middle-agers, to the elderly...something for everyone. This means low income/inexpensive rental units (note: which does not mean low quality ghetto projects) for people just starting out on their own or even retired elderly people, to starter homes for newly-started middle-income families, to live-work units for artists and small business entrepreneurs, to luxury condos for wealthy retired empty nesters.

Milwaukee is fortunate to have some great efforts that've been made from the public and private sectors. The Housing Authority of the City of Milwaukee (http://www.hacm.org/) has been nationally recognized for its achievements in renovating older public housing and building new, mixed-use/mixed-income projects that emphasize the three key points of sustainability (economic, community, and environmental). Many of these projects are in or near downtown, such as Convent Hill, Hillside, and Highland Gardens. For the private sector, a tip of the hat must be given to Gorman & Company (http://www.gormanusa.com/portfolio/index.htm), which has developed a bunch of affordable housing and live-work units in and around Downtown, utilizing historic renovation and also new construction...like the Majestic, The Historic Lofts on Kilbourn, Park East Enterprise Lofts, Historic Fifth Ward Lofts, and Blue Ribbon Lofts coming to the old Pabst brewery. Credit must also be given to Mandel and Bob Schultz, who have built, and will continue to build, apartments and live-work lofts in the Third Ward and Walker's Point. While those are all project that include opportunities for lower income people, they are nothing at all like low income housing of the old days, and they have a qualification process to prevent renting/selling to the kinds of "bad apples" that are stereotypically associated with low income housing. The other advantage to these types of developments is that they do not create huge pockets of solidly poor, middle income, and wealthy people all separated into their own little corners.

Housing and income diversity mixed together within close proximity can make some spectacularly vibrant neighborhoods, and can do a lot to put the "unity" back in "community." Milwaukee needs more of that kind of stuff.

Thankyou MilwaukeeD and Markitect> An example of affordable housing in downtown Milwaukee includes the apartments on Water (actually the alley that the Safe House is on) and Mason. A good friend of mine bartends downtown and wanted to be able to walk to work, but because he doesn't make a lot of money he thought he couldn't afford living downtown. Well it turns out he can get into a $1100 unit for $600 which allows him to walk to work, spend his money in our neighborhoods, enjoy more freetime, puts more eyes on the street, have a better quality of life, and basically gives him a chance to rise to the point he could afford a more expensive unit. So these affordable units in fact benefit not just him but the neighborhood as a whole.

Development update: Well, it looks like City Green has taken the fencing down on the Marshall Street side. Parking is available again on that side(west) of the street and the sidewalk is FINALLY back open!! Talk about a pain in the a**!

Anyway, I think it looks pretty nice now.

The Housing Authority of the City of Milwaukee (http://www.hacm.org/) has been nationally recognized for its achievements in renovating older public housing and building new, mixed-use/mixed-income projects that emphasize the three key points of sustainability (economic, community, and environmental). Many of these projects are in or near downtown, such as Convent Hill, Hillside, and Highland Gardens. .

Don't forget Cherry Court.... Thanks for a great post, by the way. I work for HACM, and it makes us happy when our efforts are noticed by the public.

The Hyatt Regency Milwaukee, downtown's second-largest hotel, is being sold to an Atlanta-based company that plans to do extensive renovations.

Noble Investment Group will take control at the Hyatt Regency Milwaukee on Aug. 19.

Buy a link hereNoble Investment Group's plans for the Hyatt, 333 W. Kilbourn Ave., include a refurbishing of its 484 guest rooms, as well as improvements to the restaurants, lounge and other areas, said Clay Spencer, the Hyatt's general manager.

The project's costs are estimated in the range of $15 million to $20 million, he said Wednesday.

Maybe they will finally build the other tower, too.

This thread is getting worse and worse. Every time I check on it, I'm dismayed by the amount of personal insults, petty exchanges, and off-topic posts. I asked people to use the transit thread to discuss transit. And, yet, people continue to make transit-related posts in this thread. Also, there's a handful of people here whose almost ceaseless bickering is driving away important contributors and preventing others from enjoying this thread. They know who they are. If they continue with their behavior, accounts will be suspended for no less than a week.

From the Riverwest Currents August issue

A Clearer Vision For Bronzeville

Story and Photo by Nik Kovac

Two summers ago, the city announced that $3.6 million was available to help revitalize the stretch of North Avenue between King Drive and I-43. The working title of this civic investment was the “Bronzeville Cultural and Entertainment District.”

Since then, two major real estate developments have been announced in the area, and the city hopes that many more retail, entertainment and residential projects will fill some of the gaps along the major travel corridor.

“Are there any developers in the room?” asked DeShea Agee, a recently hired economic development specialist for the city, on June 6, at the first of six weekly, open-to-the-public “visioning workshops” held at America’s Black Holocaust Museum. “We need your help to bring retail in. That is the face of the district.”

There has already been some movement on that front. The Just Jazz and Blues Lounge at 634 E. North Ave. opened its doors in September 2005. That same month the city approved grant and loan programs to improve existing facades, and declared that empty lots were available for development. Since then, several other nearby locations – like Garfield’s 502, as well as Soche and Gee’s Clippers on King Drive – have hung out shingles.

There is more to come. Last December, the city announced that a development team headed by former NBA player and Bucks coach Terry Porter was planning a 5-story building on the vacant land between 7th Street and the westwardcurving interstate just south of North Avenue. It will include a sports bar on the ground level, with loft and condominium space above.

“I believe Terry Porter’s project at the gateway to Bronzeville is going to generate excitement and boost our efforts to create an African- American cultural and entertainment district,” said Mayor Barrett at the time.

Sheila Payton, who works in local Congresswoman Gwen Moore’s office, attended the visioning meetings and described the Porter project as the “yeast in the bread” that will serve as a catalyst for other developments.

Back in November 2005, Congresswoman Moore had already secured $200,000 of federal money for another big project, the Bronzeville Cultural Center, now tentatively slated for the old Garfield Street school, just south of America’s Black Holocaust Museum.v

Plans for a cultural center were first advanced by a group of local African-American leaders back in 1997, according to Tyrone Dumas, board chairman for the African-American World Cultural Center, Inc. “When we first planned it,” he explained, “the budget was $40 million. Then we redesigned it five times over the last ten years, and now it’s been scaled down to $2.7 million.”

The cultural center will provide high-tech space for local arts groups and non-profits, as well as some permanent exhibition space. “Whatever we do will have to complement the Black Holocaust Museum,” reasoned Dumas. “We see it as a synergy. There are no egos here. When people get off that freeway, they are going to see a lot of opportunities in the center of the city.”

“The Cultural Center,” explained Congresswoman Moore, “will ensure that the talents of neighborhood arts organizations can be showcased to the wider community. In turn, these new visitors will expand the potential customer base for surrounding businesses.”

Representatives of local arts organizations showed up and expressed specific concerns at the visioning meetings. In June, at the first meeting, Evelyn Terry of African-American Artists Beginning to Educate Americans About African-American Art (ABEA) distributed a statement which read, in part, “While ABEA feels that the creation of public art in Bronzeville is a good first step, we have concerns due to previous incidents regarding inclusion and exclusion of African-American arts professionals. Exclusion has resulted in economic disparity in the African American arts community.”

In July, at the last meeting, Denise Crumble of the African-American arts collective known as Arts Village, expressed other doubts. “When planners instigate the process,” she cautioned, “and don’t include artists, it’s usually unsuccessful. I live in Riverwest, where you have a lot of artists and a lot of people of mixed income. Where is the affordable housing in this project?”

Agee directly responded to Crumble’s concerns. “A development that included a combination of affordable housing and market rate rents,” he told the room, “would likely be supported.”

If you would like more information about the city’s plans for Bronzeville and how to get involved, go to www.mkedcd.org/Bronzeville/index.html or call DeShea Agee at 286 0793.

I was driving down MLK the other day and was surprised by the amount of development a few blocks north of north ave.. That development combined with the plans for the corridor along north ave just west of MLK should hopefully turn that area around.

This thread is getting worse and worse. Every time I check on it, I'm dismayed by the amount of personal insults, petty exchanges, and off-topic posts. I asked people to use the transit thread to discuss transit. And, yet, people continue to make transit-related posts in this thread. Also, there's a handful of people here whose almost ceaseless bickering is driving away important contributors and preventing others from enjoying this thread. They know who they are. If they continue with their behavior, accounts will be suspended for no less than a week.


Thank you.

-----------

That is terrific news on the Bronzeville area. I think over the next 5-7 years that will become a really hot area to build. Now that the giant barrier of the Park East is gone and new development will soon serve as a bridge to that spot, I'd imagine you'll see much more new development in the triangle of North, I-43, and the River.

From the Business Journal of Milwaukee

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2007/08/13/story7.html?b=1186977600^1504825

^^Surprise, surprise! I don't know, but that project was just one of those "fantasy" projects from the beginning. You never heard anything about it. Did they get to the approvals process?

Ovation Plaza almost always came up whenever there was some news about a firm was looking at Downtown office space--either a new entry to the Downtown market or an already-existing firm who was coming up on a lease-renewal (GE Healthcare, Manpower, Cramer-Krasselt, Foley & Lardner, and a few other law firms, just to name a few). The proposal, however, was never able to secure any anchor tenants, so it never got too far. The closest ever it got to becoming a reality was when GE Healthcare wanted to go into the building, but they were asking a ridiculous amount of TIF money for...a giant parking garage.

And since the office market is still weak, any new proposals resulting from Marcus' current RFP will probably not include a whole bunch of office space. It'd be a good location for a hotel, if the market's right for one, being much closer to the business and theater districts, and convention center than some of the other hotel proposals for other sites floating around out there.

The news about the Ovation development is great news... especially considering the most recent tragedy of a building that was proposed for the site.

The news about the Ovation development is great news... especially considering the most recent tragedy of a building that was proposed for the site.

http://cdx.xceligent.com/attachments/914/460914_tn.jpg
^ This version of Ovation Plaza was an early design, back when Irgens was trying to woo GE Healthcare as the main anchor tenant.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1593/op1yo4.jpg

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7956/op2sm5.jpg
^ This later version, posted here earlier this year, was more of a work-in-progress, not really representative of any kind of final design for the proposal.


http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/1508/ovationplaza01nk1.jpg

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8084/ovationplaza02pq4.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9530/ovationplaza04kn1.jpg
^ And this is yet another version of Ovation Plaza....the one most recently being shown by Irgens in their promotional material.

I actually like that last one a bit. It would really shake up the downtown architecture a bit. I'd like to see these architects (literally) thinking outside the box.

Any news on the Sidney Hih / Gipfel / Ruvin development on the Park East?

I've never seen that last version until now. It works perfectly with the PAC and the upside down pyramid at Red Arrow Park. Come to think of it, it'd make quite a nice hotel design, too.

Hmmm...that last rendering of Ovation is not too shabby. Looks to be about 26 stories, or so. Not a bad height for that space, and the design is pretty Chicago-looking for Milwaukee. I agree that a shape like this with a primarily glass exterior would compliment the beige, stoney Marcus Center quite nicely.
But, rather than ending so abruptly at the top, I'd like to see it taper or do something that doesn't just leave the eyes hanging -- like the 411 building does (that thing is a dog, almost proletariat-looking). Here I am wasting time, talking about something that's just been dropped by Irgens. But, perhaps this is good news, and somebody will step forward with something even better. That is one great piece of property downtown that should get a significant building on it.

Wow, I hadn't seen that last version, I really like it.

I am looking forward to seeing the new proposals for the site.

Yeah, that last rendering is awesome. Makes you wonder how many renderings we haven't seen... Markitect - got any revised renderings of the Chase structure? ;)

Hadn't seen that last proposal either.
Would've added a real exclamation point to the area.
Very cool. Very too bad.:cry:

The core's of the towers for park lafayette rising above street level as previously reported.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1049/1128373466_8c5b74832e.jpg?v=0

I've never seen that last version until now. It works perfectly with the PAC and the upside down pyramid at Red Arrow Park. Come to think of it, it'd make quite a nice hotel design, too.

That particular version of Ovation Plaza did include a hotel, along with offices and condos and retail and parking.

From the Small Business Times

Olson plans Walker's Point project

http://www.biztimes.com/nf/uploads/Image/reweekly8.15.07/pittsburgh.jpg
A developer who had more than $324,000 in overdue property taxes as of late July, and has been unable to get city approval for a project in Brewers Hill because of unpaid building code violation fines, plans to convert a 103-year-old, seven-story building in Walker's Point into an upscale apartment building. The developer is Tim Olson, principal of Olson Management Group. He plans to purchase the 98,035-square-foot building at 223 W. Pittsburg Ave., Milwaukee, from the Ronald and Miriam J. Cohen Family Limited Partnership.

"I do have it under contract to purchase right after the first of the year," Olson said. The building is occupied by Ron Cohen's company, Shelton-Reynolds Inc., an industrial fabrics and webbing distributor. Shelton-Reynolds will move its offices to Mequon and eliminate its warehouse function, Cohen said. The company will ship from its vendors instead of keeping the product at a warehouse in Milwaukee, he said. The company will eliminate a few positions. Those employees are retiring, Cohen said. Cohen said he has not yet signed a lease for office space in Mequon.

Cohen and Olson declined to disclose the sale price for the building. The property has an assessed value of $967,000, according to city records. The assessed value of the property has been climbing recently, resulting in "ridiculously high" property taxes, Cohen said. The tax increase is one of the reasons the company is moving, Cohen said. "The City of Milwaukee is constantly raising taxes," he said. "The best use of the area is condos and apartments. All of a sudden (the property) is valuable, and the city jacks (the assessment and property taxes) up."

Olson said he plans to spend about $10 million to acquire and redevelop the building with more than 60 luxury apartments. The apartments will have between 600 and 1,800 square feet of space. Olson plans to add an eighth floor to the building, which will have six penthouses with monthly rents of about $2,400. Olson said he also plans to seek historic preservation tax credits for the building.

The redevelopment of the Historic Third Ward is spreading into the Walker's Point area, making the building attractive, Olson said. "There really isn't much left in the Third Ward to develop," he said. "(Walker's Point) is going to be like what we have in the Third Ward now." Olson and Sonny Bando have proposed a five-story, 53-unit apartment and condominium development northwest of East Brown Street and North Holton Street in Brewers Hill. However, aldermen balked at approving a re-zoning request for the project because Olson still owes about $26,000 in building code violation fines, which are due Sept. 26. In addition, a report by the Department of Neighborhood Services indicated that Olson owed $324,716 in overdue property taxes as of July 27.

Olson said his goal is to get the fines and overdue property tax payments paid so he can convince aldermen to approve the Brewers Hill project. He is hoping to make those payments and receive Common Council approval for the project in September. "I anticipate taking care of what they want and moving forward with that project," he said. "It's on Holton Street. Nobody has developed there. Nobody has invested in that area."
Olson also recently broke ground for two smaller projects. He is building a $2 million development with six townhouses, in three-story side-by-side units, on a 10,800-square-foot lot at the northeast corner of Brown and Buffum streets in Brewers Hill. The townhouses cost about $370,000 each and five of the six units have been sold, Olson said. The project is expected to be complete in May, he said. A duplex and garage were demolished to make way for the development.

Olson and Bando also recently broke ground on a three-story, six-unit apartment building at 924-26 N. 16th St., near the Marquette University campus. A duplex was razed to make way for the project, which is expected to be completed in June.

Olson's plans in Walker's Point come on the heels of the Milwaukee Common Council approving an ordinance requiring each applicant before the Board of Zoning Appeals and the City Plan Commission to submit a signed affidavit indicating whether they owe the city money for a range of items, including delinquent property taxes and assessments, unpaid judgments and outstanding health and building code violations. The ordinance's author, Alderman Robert Bauman, said the new requirement will provide city officials with an important tool they can use to collect unpaid taxes, judgments and fines - as well as a means to get property owners and landlords to comply with code violation orders and to make sure they abate nuisances.

WEDNESDAY, Aug. 15, 2007, 12 p.m.
By Journal Sentinel staff

Condo project gets state funding
The Milwaukee development firm 1890 Commerce LLC will receive a state brownfield redevelopment grant of $150,000 to help redevelop land to construct condominiums, the Commerce Department announced today.

1890 Commerce is planning to build two six-story condominiums along Milwaukee's riverwalk. The state funds will be used for site remediation and infrastructure. Total project cost is almost $13.7 million, the agency said.

To clarify the 1890 Commerce LCC project is the project known as the Edge.

Good to hear that the Edge is getting assistance.
cuz that is a scuzzy place to clean up,
and I would really like to see that built,
too bad there cant be more retail on that street,
but its a cool street and this will help it become more complete,
and it will likely help retail develop along humbodlt,

correct me if im wrong but the retail hasnt filled in much if at all
for the new retail on humbdolt for the large building condo building (forgot its name but its just north of the river on the west side) and the smaller one story retail project.

The last Ovation Plaza design i like the most and its sad that we won't see something like that in our city. We need more designs like this... why isn't it happening for us? I wish we had a booming business climate! Grrr...

does anybody have a website or some recent information on the chase renovation?

Architect group to move offices to former Pabst boiler house.

The redevelopment project at the former Pabst brewery has landed its first commercial tenant, an architectural firm that will lease 4,000 square feet.

Buy a link hereThe Albion Group Architects will move its offices to the brewery's 55,000-square-foot former boiler house, which is just west of N. 10th St. and one block north of W. Juneau Ave.

"The boiler building is a classic structure, rich in history and a prime example of the industrial style that was at the core of the Pabst Brewing Company," Albion partner David Krummel said in a statement.

The investors group is led by developers Max Dermond and Charles Trainer, and plans to complete its purchase of the building by the end of the year, Trainer said. Albion is doing the design work on the redevelopment of the boiler house.

Trainer and Dermond said they are in the final phases of negotiations with two other office tenants for the building. Those tenants, who were not named, would lease around 20,000 square feet.
Dermond said the high level of interest from prospective tenants has led him and Trainer to consider buying other buildings at the 21-acre Pabst complex.

Other developments include Madison-based Gorman & Co.'s plans to convert the 138,000-square-foot former keg house into the 92-unit Blue Ribbon Loft Apartments.

Full Story: JSonline.com (http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=648004)

Great to hear there is some positive development at the Pabst complex. They seem to be going about that whole thing with a pragmatic approach. Any word on the Hofbrauhaus that was to be built there?

maybe this will help the demolition go a little faster!

http://www.onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/northendfire.html

In Milwaukee Buzz Briefs
The North End condo development on fire
By OMC Staff Writers

Published Aug. 16, 2007 at 11:44 a.m.
OnMilwaukee.com's eyes on the street report that there is a fire at the Mandel Group's The North End condo development, 1531 N. Water St., along the Milwaukee River.

Water Street is closed from Pleasant to Lyon as a dozen or so fire tracks battle what is described by an eyewitness as an internal fire at the building, where demolition recently began.

White smoke can be seen rising from the structure, a former tannery, which will be cleared to make way for the new condo development construction.

Well that's one way to get a TIF, have the fire department aid in the demolition of the place!

"Ummm sir, I don't know how seven barrels of oily rags got underneath that teepee of plywood."

TMJ4 had coverage on that as well. It doesn't look too bad, though.

"Ummm sir, I don't know how seven barrells of oily rages got underneath that teepee of plywood."

Hahahaaahahaaahahaaahahaaahaha.

Greetings,

I'm new to the forum but have enjoyed reading many of the previous posts over the last week or so. I'd like to make my first contribution by posting the latest info regarding the Pfister & Vogel (North End) fire:

Small Business Times (08/16/07)
Fire breaks out at Pfister & Vogel site

Milwaukee firefighters responded to a two-alarm fire this morning at the former Pfister & Vogel tannery complex, located on the north end of downtown Milwaukee along the Milwaukee River and southwest of Water Street and Pleasant Street. Smoke was billowing out of one of the buildings in the old tannery complex around 11:15 a.m. today.

Milwaukee-based Mandel Group Inc. is demolishing the former Pfister & Vogel tannery buildings to make way for the North End, a $175 million development that will consist of several buildings with 88 apartments, 395 condominiums and 30,000 square feet of retail space. The North End project is expected to take five to seven years to complete.

Richard Lincoln, the senior vice president of Mandel Group who is the project manager for the North End project, could not be reached for comment about today's fire.

Lt. Larry Jenkins of the Milwaukee Fire Department said the fire was on the roof of the building and was contained there. He said the cause of the fire was not yet determined, and no one was injured in the blaze.

On Wednesday, Mandel Group announced that it has contracted with Caledonia-based Zenith Industrial Services Inc. to conduct the complex site demolition for The North End project. Zenith provides demolition, dismantling, asbestos abatement and environmental services for industrial and commercial clients.

A representative for Zenith could not be reached for comment this morning.

Zenith's demolition efforts for the project began in July and are expected to be complete by late fall, according to Mandel Group. Zenith has begun work along North Water Street at the south end of the site near Laacke and Joys and plans to progress north toward Pleasant Street.

"Working on a project of this magnitude in our own community is a tremendous opportunity for our company," Bertram Snead, president of Zenith, said in a news release earlier this week. "Our goal is to get the site cleaned up to provide a good foundation for construction on The North End. We know where the challenges are on the site. But we pride ourselves on having the expertise to overcome any unforeseen challenges as they arise."
Zenith is co-owned and managed by Snead and vice president Hans Geyer.

The eight-acre former Pfister & Vogel parcel, which had operated as a tannery since the 1850s, is the largest undeveloped brownfield site in downtown Milwaukee, according to Mandel Group.

Holton Street Project May Start this Month, October at Latest
Author/Source: Dan Knauss
Wednesday, 15 August 2007

According to 3rd District Ald. Mike D'Amato, the Department of Public Works (DPW) has hired a contracter to do the long-awaited Holton Street Revitalization/Commercial District Enhancement project. This project involves streetscaping and the creation of a bike lane along North Holton Street from East Reservoir Avenue to East Center Street in the 3rd and 6th Aldermanic Districts.

Over three years ago the City received federal and state funding for this project from the Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality (CMAQ) Improvement Program. This January the Common Council finally approved the transfer and expenditure of $350,000 from the Neighborhood Commercial District Street Improvement Fund for the Holton Street Commercial District Enhancement Project.

In March the Common Council passed a resolution approving the City's cost participation in the installation of street lighting improvements and traffic signal/sign modifications at a total estimated cost of $281,683.97. Of that amount, the estimated State share was $225,347.17, and the estimated City share was $56,336.80.

The contractor for this project is doing two streetscaping projects for the city at this time: one on Holton, and one on Greenfield Avenue. Since both will not be worked on at the same time, depending on which street goes first, the work Holton could begin this month at the earliest or be finished at the end of October at the latest.

Following Another Shooting, Hines Gets Shutdown of Bar McGee Defended
Author/Source: Dan Knauss
Friday, 17 August 2007

From JSonline.com:

Ald. Michael McGee tried twice to reduce liquor license suspensions for the bar where one man was killed and four others were wounded in a shooting early Thursday, city records show.

Carter's House of Jazz, 507 W. North Ave., has been the site of a string of previous shootings and other incidents in the less than three years it has been open.

Common Council President Willie Hines Jr. demanded that tavern owner John F. Carter surrender his license or face "swift action to begin the revocation process."

"In light of the senseless destruction at Carter's House of Jazz early this morning, I am determined to do whatever it takes to close this dangerous magnet of criminal activity as soon as possible," Hines said in a written statement.

Later in the day the City issued a statement saying "John F. Carter surrendered the liquor license for Carter's House of Jazz at City Hall today at 1:30 p.m. to Common Council President Willie L. Hines Jr. Mr. Carter filled out the appropriate paperwork, after which he spoke with President Hines for about 10 minutes. Rebecca Barron of the License Division and Mary Fitzgerald of the 6th District were also present.

An article from Midwest Construction (July 07) stated some interesting facts about Milwaukee's condo investment.


1,500 Condos have been completed since 2000, with 1300 being completed since 2002.


The investment in condo construction, since 2000, has been 1.8 billion.

LINK (http://www.hunzinger.com/_media/pdf/BoomtownBrewtown-web.pdf)

City leadership drops the ball...

Urban-growth plan fails to find footing
Johnson Controls' idea falls flat in Milwaukee
By JOHN SCHMID
jschmid@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Aug. 19, 2007
The proposal that Johnson Controls Inc. pitched to Mayor Tom Barrett and his top staffers on Feb. 22, 2006, was bold.

The state's largest publicly traded company said it saw a convergence of its own business interests with the economic well-being of Milwaukee, home to one of the nation's densest concentrations of urban poverty.

The strategy: By helping civic leaders and faith-based groups build support for the construction of clinics, sports facilities and job-training centers in the inner city, Johnson Controls also could create new customers for its division that installs air conditioning and heating systems and upgrades and manages buildings.

The proposal, called MetroMarkets, struck only a minor chord in City Hall. A year and a half later, Johnson Controls has scaled back its plans.

"I'm not aware that anyone aggressively contacted Johnson Controls after the presentation and asked, 'How can we help?' " said Martha Brown, deputy commissioner for the Department of City Development. "I consider our approach to be less aggressive than maybe it should have been."


continued.... http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=649151

An article from Midwest Construction (July 07) stated some interesting facts about Milwaukee's condo investment.


1,500 Condos have been completed since 2000, with 1300 being completed since 2002.


The investment in condo construction, since 2000, has been 1.8 billion.

LINK (http://www.hunzinger.com/_media/pdf/BoomtownBrewtown-web.pdf)

Interesting article.. a lot of errors though. Doesn't look like the author took much time to do any research.

City leadership drops the ball...



continued.... http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=649151

Yep, same group I've been railing on for some time. City of Milwaukee taxpayers should be asking for an accounting of what's going on in City Hall these days.

It's not a 'scraper, but it does respect the aesthetic:

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/aug07/walgreens082007.jpg

Is it just me, why does the Journal Sentinal rave about this building design? It's ok, clean lines and different, but not the next coming of Christ. In fact, I prefer the red brick versions found in the upscale subdivisions. This is a good step up from the older Walreens back in the 60's and 70's. Maybe I need to drive by and take a closer look. I'm open.

where is this walgreens?
looks alright, atleast it has a design,
most standalone walgreens are pretty devoid of style

It's on Oakland near Kenwood.

Here's the link to Gould's take on it:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=649126

This new Walgreens is on Oakland Avenue, just north of Locust Street. It is replacing the old Walgreens that is on Oakland, just south of Locust.

The reason for the praise is due to the fact that Walgreens and the developer and the architects were willing to go the extra mile to come up with a more custom-made design suitable for a dense walkable urban neighborhood like the East Side, as opposed to their more typical standardized suburban designs they often plop into urban areas.

It's built right up to the street with large glassy windows--which is good for safety reasons (more eyes on the street), and it activates the streetfront allowing for merchandise to be displayed without blocking views. It's also designed in a contemporary aesthetic--no silly fake half-timbering, or false brick arches, or goofy doo-dads added in a poor attempt to mimic genuine historical architectural details.

It's too bad the upper stories of apartments that were originally proposed were dropped. It is also too bad they went for a fairly standard surface parking lot instead of at least trying to incorporate some eco-sustainable features, or even better yet rooftop or basement parking. A little bit of color somewhere on the building wouldn't hurt, either. But all in all, a pretty good effort.

I actually walked into that Walgreens' about two weeks ago to get some soda only to find construction crews still working inside.

The thing about that Walgreens is that, while it is more attractive than the current one half a block south, it has created a new big parking lot as well as a rather large grass lot to the south which is sandwiched between two parking lots. It would have been better if they had taken more care in site design. It is also replacing a store one block away that will now be empty. All in all, not the best of additions to the neighborhood. While the Sentry that was there before was ugly and related poorly to the street, it at least provided a needed service to the neighborhood.

Honestly to me it looks like an old bank that was restored to fit a Walgreens

Honestly to me it looks like an old bank that was restored to fit a Walgreens

Yes, that's it..... An old bank or library that was converted. Good analogy.

Engineering pupils have hopes, worries
By AMY GUCKEEN
aguckeen@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Aug. 20, 2007
The ambitious plans of University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee Chancellor Carlos Santiago are clear - build a new research park and engineering campus on the Milwaukee County Grounds in Wauwatosa.

Santiago and others see the campus as a key part of a plan to help transform the region economically and think it would lead to new opportunities for engineering graduates and help attract talent to the area.

How such a campus - 12 miles away from the main university - would affect the daily lives of UWM students and their education experience remains hazy. What a satellite campus would include is on the minds of engineering students, faculty and administrators and local officials.

Josh Zagorski, 24, would like to see more labs.

Tristan Hickman, 23, wants more faculty.

"It's a lot more complicated than just having a campus for engineering classes," student Susie Paulus, 23, said. "If they did this, they would have to have everything a normal campus would have. It's going to take a lot more planning to get this taken care of."

In addition to labs, offices and classrooms, practical considerations include a cafeteria, general store, accommodations for student housing and a shuttle bus to the east-side campus, students and faculty say.

Scott Winkelmann, 22, can get from his home to class in five minutes. The senior lives a block away from the engineering school. How a trek to a campus in Wauwatosa would fit into his day concerns him.

"We may be driving back and forth to try and go to classes out there," Winkelmann said. "There's a lot of classes that aren't in the engineering building. They'd have to find room somewhere else to put those classes."

UWM is primarily a commuter campus, with only 9% of students living on campus. That doesn't mean university officials should disregard the possibility of housing at a new campus, students say.

Winkelmann said students probably would want to find housing closer to Wauwatosa, rather than on Milwaukee's east side.

"I would have to conform to the new setup," said Winkelmann, who does 90% of his studying in the engineering building. "I know there's a lot of people commuting, but for the people that do live around campus, it would be quite an inconvenience. Do they have accommodations for however many engineering students there are that might choose to move out there?"

No answers yet
Student and faculty concerns will be identified and dealt with, said Ronald Perez, interim dean for the College of Engineering and Applied Science.

"This is nothing that hasn't been done before," Perez said. "It just hasn't been done in Milwaukee."

"It is a conversation that is going to take some time," Santiago said. "There are many questions we have that we can't answer at this point."

A committee of faculty, students and staff formed by Perez will begin meeting this week to address those questions.

"The students are key, and we will definitely make sure that their experience is a good one," Perez said. "It's a significant event to take a unit off campus."

The engineering college, 3200 N. Cramer St., occupies a 13-story building devoted to engineering and mathematical sciences. The building is used for both research and instruction, with more than 75,000 square feet of lab space, the school's Web site says.

The parcel UWM would like to buy from the county is 82 acres. The usable area is 50 acres at most, said David Gilbert, president of the UWM Foundation.

Expanding work in biomedical science, nanotechnology and biotechnology, and doubling the size of the faculty, are essential parts of the initiative, Perez said.

"We are a very traditional college of engineering," Perez said. "We just don't have room on the Kenwood campus to carry out the kind of work that would keep up with the demand for technology. Frontier areas require a different kind of infrastructure - the space would increase, but it would be a different kind of space."

Expanding to accommodate these initiatives is essential for the engineering college's growth physically and academically, associate professor Dave Klemer said.

"UWM is kind of at a watershed point," Klemer said. "These kinds of initiatives are essential for the next-generation UWM."

While conversations are taking place among UWM and related parties, such as the Wauwatosa Common Council and County Executive Scott Walker, Santiago said the school has "no money to build or hire."

Planning for what would happen to the space left vacant by the engineering college also is in the works, according to Tom Luljak, vice chancellor for university relations.

If the proposed campus goes through, Wauwatosa would face an influx of about 2,000 students, not including faculty and staff. It's likely the campus would be busy day and night.

"The engineering school never closes," Paulus said. "There's people who stay there all night to get projects done."

Any concern that the engineering students would turn Wauwatosa into a party town is unwarranted, Wauwatosa Mayor Theresa Estness said.

"They're engineering students, graduate students," Estness said. "We're talking serious people here. It's attracting the brightest of the bright. We already have colleges in the Wauwatosa area. We don't have a problem with student housing or student behavior."

Enrollment in the engineering college at UWM is about 1,900. Enrollment at other Wauwatosa-area colleges ranges from about 600 at Wisconsin Lutheran to about 1,300 at the Medical College of Wisconsin and more than 1,700 at Mount Mary, according to the schools' Web sites.

UW-Wauwatosa? Now here is a real mistake the city is making. They should be pushing UW-Milwaukee to stay in the city, maybe even a spot on the Park East.

It is also replacing a store one block away that will now be empty.

The old store is going to be renovated for new tenants.

Ok, since no one has posted this yet. More great news for MU and Milwaukee.

http://www.jsonline.com/watch/?watch=1&date=8/21/2007&id=28083

TUESDAY, Aug. 21, 2007, 12:40 p.m.
By Alan J. Borsuk

Zilber pledges $50 million to MU, city

Milwaukee real estate developer Joseph Zilber announced today that he was donating $30 million to the Marquette University Law School and would announce in the next several weeks an additional $20 million in grants to address other Milwaukee needs.

The $50 million commitment is one of the largest philanthropic acts in city history.

The $30 million is the second mega-gift in four months to the law school, which is preparing to build an $80 million building at the southeast corner of the Marquette campus, adjacent to the Marquette freeway interchange.

Marquette officials said $5 million of the Zilber grant will go to the new building and $25 million will go to supporting scholarships for law students.

Zilber, who will turn 90 this fall, told a gathering of several hundred people on the site where the new building will be constructed that Milwaukee has slipped from what it was in the post World War II period when he began his career building and investing in residential and commercial real estate.

"We are no longer the city we once were," he said. But the prospects for the city are brightening, he said.

"Today we need to look forward and concentrate on the city we can be." He called the $50 million "an initial commitment to charities, organizations and institutions in our city," and said he hoped the gift will spur other large gifts.

In addition to the gifts, Zilber is the key figure in plans to redevelop the former Pabst brewery on the west edge of downtown.

Honestly to me it looks like an old bank that was restored to fit a Walgreens

http://static.px.yelp.com/bphoto/tivh8lr6pzBDNfrJLYWh_g/l

UW-Wauwatosa? Now here is a real mistake the city is making. They should be pushing UW-Milwaukee to stay in the city, maybe even a spot on the Park East.

The main problem is how far Wauwatosa is from the current campus. It is about 40 min by bus between the two. Why not place the college someplace in the inner city, near Marquette where there is a large amount of available land or even in the Menomoniee Valley? It would be more convienent for current students, especially those that may only be taking one or two engineering classes. It would save UWM transportation costs, too.

milwaukee-kobenhavn> Also it pulls population out of the city and promotes sprawl. And I agree there is area around Macarthur Square that could be used, there is the Park East, there is in fact land along the river on the Eastside that with some thought could become a great unique urban campus.

Carlos Santiago wants to extend UWM's reach within metro Milwaukee. This is why he was previously targeting UW-Waukesha for a consolidation. By placing the engineering school in Tosa, he accomplishes this goal. Further helping this cause is that the County supervisors want to give this land to UWM for a reasonable price. This would always trump a decision to place it in the Park East, which sounds good...except the price would be substantially higher. That price would be compunded by the price to construct a parking ramp, which could be avoided on the county grounds. I am sure that rail could possibly solve that problem, but transportation is up in the air (as we all know)

^^That's a good point.

"Carlos Santiago wants to extend UWM's reach within metro Milwaukee. " Universities draw students from the around the world so there reach is pretty far already. But spliting the campus and moving out of the city will add to our sprawl, to congestion, will make course scheduling more difficult, potentially move students from the Eastside and on and on... Milwaukee needs its college students to live in the city to help spur the future growth...

Further the county owns both the land in the Park East and the land in Tosa so they could sell it for the same price if they so wished. Hell they could sell the land for $1 if they wanted to.

Finally there's a reason it is called UW-Milwaukee not UW-Tosa.

I agree that UWM has a global reach, however it is pretty much a commuter school. Park East is owned by the County, just like the land in the research park. I would think that the County Board views the Park East land to have more value than the research park. I know that would increase sprawl, however sprawl goes to the bottom of his list of Santiago's priorities. This is a resume builder for Santiago. If he can get this done, it gives him a chance to move on to bigger and better things.
Don't get me wrong, I would love if they decided to build downtown. I just think that if they get a better deal from the county to go 5 miles west, they will take it.

Here's an interesting note from a JS Online article today...

Although Milwaukee ranks fourth in property taxes, at $377 per person, it comes in last in total taxes, because every other city studied also levies sales, income, vehicle or utility taxes, the report notes. For example, Cincinnati ranks sixth in property taxes, at $205 per person, but first in total taxes, at $1,327 per person.

sonic> Oh I agree UWM will probably take the deal for UW-Tosa just that it's not good for Milwaukee. My point was here is a true case were the city is making a mistake. Here is where the Mayor needs to step in and first stop UW-Tosa and then have DCD find UW-Milwaukee more appropriate land within the city.

Santiago's idea to put the UWM engineering school in Wauwatosa is further evidence that Milwaukee is developing into a "bipolar" metropolitan area, one with two downtowns: the traditional, historic downtown, and a newer, more automobile-friendly downtown. This nascent "second downtown" is home to GE Medical, the research park, Mayfair, and has plenty of parking lots. If UWM were to locate its engineering school in Tosa, it would further solidify the development of this "second downtown."

If it were up to me we would have only one downtown, not two. But this second downtown in Tosa is happening whether we want it to or not. So let's make the best of it. Let's link these two downtowns with something other than a freeway. Let's go for density in housing in and around the "second Downtown" in Tosa.

Ugh... yeah I really don't like the idea of them splitting the campus. When I spend time on campuses like DePaul and Arizona State University I get a universal impression that the students really REALLY dislike having multiple campuses. It is a definite drawback that would deter some out of town students.

Santiago's idea to put the UWM engineering school in Wauwatosa is further evidence that Milwaukee is developing into a "bipolar" metropolitan area, one with two downtowns: the traditional, historic downtown, and a newer, more automobile-friendly downtown. This nascent "second downtown" is home to GE Medical, the research park, Mayfair, and has plenty of parking lots. If UWM were to locate its engineering school in Tosa, it would further solidify the development of this "second downtown."

If it were up to me we would have only one downtown, not two. But this second downtown in Tosa is happening whether we want it to or not. So let's make the best of it. Let's link these two downtowns with something other than a freeway. Let's go for density in housing in and around the "second Downtown" in Tosa.'

Well, to be fair, there are many entrenched elements out in the Tosa area that make it a viable research park area. Children's, Froedert, and the Medical College are a tremendous asset. Now, with GE and the rest of the research park, this area is providing a tremendous service to the state of Wisconsin. If you need confirmation, just look at the top 10 employers in the city of Milwaukee. Milwaukee, in 30 years, has moved from a manufacturing town to a Healthcare / Financial Service town. That is our heart. The cost of doing business is considerably less out west, especially for a hospital or university.

I think we should embrace this area. Other than GE locating to a large building downtown, these places are not detracting from the Milwaukee downtown. Really, they are good for the region, which is good for the strategic center of the region - downtown Milwaukee.

Here's an interesting note from a JS Online article today...

Although Milwaukee ranks fourth in property taxes, at $377 per person, it comes in last in total taxes, because every other city studied also levies sales, income, vehicle or utility taxes, the report notes. For example, Cincinnati ranks sixth in property taxes, at $205 per person, but first in total taxes, at $1,327 per person.

I saw this too, but refrained from posting it because a certain someone would post a few :nuts: :banana: :bash: and jump on peoples' backs. Anyhow, its pretty interesting. I'd love to see a more comprehensive layout of these facts similar state tax rankings. I bet Milwaukee is somewhere in the middle of the road?

163 years ... 272 years this is crazy


Street repaving may wait more than century

At the rate Milwaukee city forces are working, the average neighborhood street won't be repaved or rebuilt for 163 years - more than a century longer than it's designed to last, according to a report released today.

Alleys will wait even longer for renovation - an average of 272 years, or about 200 years beyond the end of their useful lives, the report says.

The new report from City Comptroller W. Martin "Wally" Morics comes after a deadly freeway bridge collapse in Minneapolis has focused nationwide attention on decaying public infrastructure, although Morics' study was under way long before the I-35W bridge crashed into the Mississippi River.

Milwaukee has 942 miles of neighborhood streets, says the report, which does not cover major streets. Neighborhood streets were built to last 45 to 60 years, although a switch from concrete to asphalt repaving has likely cut that lifespan to 25 to 35 years, the report says.

Replacing all of those streets would cost $973.8 million, which means the city would have to spend $16.2 million a year to keep up with a 60-year replacement cycle. But average spending over the past three years has been about $6 million a year, renovating six miles of local streets each year at about $1 million a mile, the report says.

Similarly, the city's 416 miles of alleys were built to last 50 to 60 years, although public works officials believe their useful life is closer to 80 years, the report says.

Replacing every alley would cost $495.8 million, or $8.3 million a year for 60 years. Average spending over the past three years, however, has been $1.8 million a year, repaving less than two miles of alleys a year at more than $1 million a mile, the report says.

The street and alley replacement figures are a new feature of Morics' fourth annual report comparing spending and taxes in Milwaukee to nine similar U.S. cities. That report is aimed at expanding public budget debates beyond the question of how high property taxes are to consider what services residents are receiving for their tax dollars, he said.

But unlike the other sections of the report, the comptroller didn't offer a comparison of how well the other cities are keeping up with their infrastructure demands. That's partly because the other cities don't have solid data on that score, and partly because differences in climate have a major impact on how long streets and alleys last, Morics said.

In future years, Morics said he plans to expand the report to examine other aspects of Milwaukee's infrastructure, such as bridges, sewers and streetlights.

As in the past, the comparison report found that total city taxes, user fees and city spending are all lower per capita in Milwaukee than in most similar cities.

Although Milwaukee ranks fourth in property taxes, at $377 per person, it comes in last in total taxes, because every other city studied also levies sales, income, vehicle or utility taxes, the report notes. For example, Cincinnati ranks sixth in property taxes, at $205 per person, but first in total taxes, at $1,327 per person.

'

Well, to be fair, there are many entrenched elements out in the Tosa area that make it a viable research park area. Children's, Froedert, and the Medical College are a tremendous asset. Now, with GE and the rest of the research park, this area is providing a tremendous service to the state of Wisconsin. If you need confirmation, just look at the top 10 employers in the city of Milwaukee. Milwaukee, in 30 years, has moved from a manufacturing town to a Healthcare / Financial Service town. That is our heart. The cost of doing business is considerably less out west, especially for a hospital or university.

I think we should embrace this area. Other than GE locating to a large building downtown, these places are not detracting from the Milwaukee downtown. Really, they are good for the region, which is good for the strategic center of the region - downtown Milwaukee.

Thank you for your comments.

Man, there's just very little to get hopped up about these days. Any news on proposed projects out there?

No kidding. Well maybe someone can provide some kind of update on any of these:

1) Ghazi project
2) Ruvin hotel
3) Grand Ave. big-box shops idea
4) Lake Pointe Tower
5) Pabst Brewery land
6) That hotel kitty-corner from the Public Market

Huh, coincidence (New tenant close to being signed for Grand Ave)

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=651637

FINE, I'll give an update. ;)

** PM me if you'd like contact information for the architect, GC, owner, developer or structural engineer for any of these projects. I might give you the info if you're nice.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hotel Mixed-Use Development - Rana Enterprises
Juneau Ave & N 4th St, northwest corner
$64,000,000 listed valuation
Apartments/Condominiums 1-3 Stories. Food/Beverage Service. Retail (Other). Vehicle Sales/Service. Swimming Pool. Miscellaneous Recreational. Hotel/Motel.

This one first came on the radar on 12/16/06. Current status: Project design in review by local authorities - Further development pending review of scope of project - Bid and construction dates not determined.

America's Freedom Center & Parking Structure
3rd Ward - $60,000,000 listed valuation

About the project (from http://www.americasfreedomcenter.org):

America's Freedom Center Foundation is planning for, and preparing to restore the historic Ward Memorial Theater, located in the Soldiers Home Historic District on the Zablocki VA Medical Center grounds in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The restored theater will maintain its original architecture; America's Freedom Center is committed to preserving the authenticity of the building. When completed, the venue will provide interactive educational experiences focusing on the abstract concept of freedom and the efforts of Americans in defense of this freedom throughout our nation's history.

This one first came on the radar 05/19/2004. Current status: Owner continuing with fund raising efforts - Various approvals still needed - Further planning is pending the fund raising outcome - No plans currently under way.

Milwaukee Mile Commercial/Office Complex
W Greenfield Ave, between S 77th & S 81st
$50,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: Master planning done - Specific projects will be reported separately as they develop

Fond du lac & North Avenue Redevelopment
$18,000,000 listed valuation

Project Description:
Elderly/Assisted Living. Office. Bank. Food/Beverage Service. Supermarket/Convenience Store. Retail (Other). Parking Garage. Manufacturing Building. Clinic/Medical Office. Paving. Park/Playground. Site Development. Landscaping.

Current status: Planning still underway - Further action pending developer commitments - Projects will be reported separately as they develop - All project pending funding and approvals.

Country Inn and Suites (90-95 Rooms)
1141 N Old World 3rd St, Site of Car-X Bldg
$5,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: Project on hold - Further advancement pending Owner's decision to proceed - No significant advancement anticipated in four (4) months

Lake Pointe Tower Mixed-Use Building
770 East Michigan St
$80,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: Correcting GC (general contractor) - Early planning continues - Project pending anchor tenant selection - No bid or construction schedules set.

Addtional Information:
Structural information: 1 Building/ 42 Stories above grade / 2 Stories below grade / 747,400 Total square ft / Building Frame: Structural Steel

Additional features: Planned hotel with 214 rooms on floors 7-13 - 260,000 square feet of office space on floors 15-24 with 26,000 square feet of space on each floor - 30 luxury condominiums on floors 25-38 and a helipad on the top of the building - Also known as US Bank Center 2

Park East Square Development (Phase II)
N Broadway, N Milwaukee St, N Water St, E Ogden Ave
$76,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: Early planning continues - Progress pending start of Block 1 and Owner's decision to proceed - No schedules set.

They're hoping to start Phase I by late 2007

Ghazi Proposal
401-441 W Wiscosin Ave
$120,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: Early planning underway - City of Milwaukee approved purchasing options Owner currently working on tenant commitments - Ground breaking scheduled for Spring 2008

Additional Information:
Structural information: *1 Building/ *32 Stories above grade / *1 Story below grade / / Building Frame: *Structural Steel

Additional features: 2 acres - 32 story retail - condominiums and hotel development - two floors of retail and entertainment (100,000sf) - 200 luxury condominiums and a 175 room - 15 story hotel - Scope may change to accommodate building code and architectural detailed restrictions

Target Start Date: 05/01/08

Milwaukee Community Sailing Center
1450 N Lincoln Memorial Dr
$5,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: Planning still underway - Owner expecting fund raising to be complete in 15 to 18 months - Bidding and construction early 2009.

Rivianna Mixed Use Development
230-290 S Water St
$100,000,000 listed valuation

Current Status: At schematics - Construction start in late 2007 or early 2008 with completion by 2010

Additional Information:
The West Tower will be a Hotel Rivianna with 81 suites - The Middle & East Tower will have a combined 177 condominium units - The Building base will have a combination of retail, office, 21 live-work condominium units and a parking structure for 470 vehicles.

Marriot Renaissance ClubSport Hotel
328-346 N Broadway
$70,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: Project is on hold. Will/would be 18 stories above grade.

The Moderne
Old World 3rd St & W Juneau Av, southwest corner
$73,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: At preliminary plans - Construction start in fall 2007 with completion in fall 2009

Addtional Information:
Structural information: 1 Building/ 30 Stories above grade / 400,000 Total square ft / Building Frame: Structural Steel

Additional features: Retail and lobbies on the ground and second floors - Parking levels above - Fitness center and mechanical level - Six stories of hotel - Ten stories of condominiums

Condomimium/Hotel Bldg
2589 N Downer Ave vicinity, N Stowell Ave & E Webster P
$40,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: At conceptual planning - Further development pending review of scope by Owner - Bid and construction dates not set.

Additional Information:
Structural information: 1 Building/ 11 Stories above grade / 1 Story below grade /
Additional features: 50 condo units and 80 hotel rooms - Underground parking

Staybridge Suites Hotel & Condominiums
N Water St and, E Juneau Ave
$20,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: Select trades (see list) bids to Architect 7/17 - 7/26 & 7/30 by 5PM (CDT) - Private opening - Utilities/Caissons underway - Excav start by end of July - Elec/Mech plans in progress & released within 2 weeks.

Additional Information:
*Structural information: 1 Building/ 14 Stories above grade / *240,000 Total square ft / Building Frame: Precast Concrete

Additional features: 14,000 square foot street level retail space - 128 room hotel and 31 condominiums on upper floors - outdoor parking lots

Wow, excellent information. Glad to hear Moderne is chugging along, it's a lot further down in development than I thought.

Hotel Mixed-Use Development - Rana Enterprises
Juneau Ave & N 4th St, northwest corner
$64,000,000 listed valuation
Apartments/Condominiums 1-3 Stories. Food/Beverage Service. Retail (Other). Vehicle Sales/Service. Swimming Pool. Miscellaneous Recreational. Hotel/Motel.

This one first came on the radar on 12/16/06. Current status: Project design in review by local authorities - Further development pending review of scope of project - Bid and construction dates not determined.

This is County-owned land in the Park East corridor. I don't think the County has put out a request for proposals on this land yet, though Rana has mentioned they would submit something for an RFP (they've lost out on two other RFP's on adjacent blocks in the past year).

Milwaukee Mile Commercial/Office Complex
W Greenfield Ave, between S 77th & S 81st
$50,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: Master planning done - Specific projects will be reported separately as they develop

This may be something done in conjunction with attracting a Major League Soccer team to the Milwaukee area, as some of the people involved with the State Fair Park development are also involved with the Milwaukee MLS effort. Soccer organizer's recently pitched an idea to retrofit a portion of the Milwaukee Mile grandstand, track, and infield with a roll-away soccer field and additional movable seating to accommodate a soccer stadium at the track.

Country Inn and Suites (90-95 Rooms)
1141 N Old World 3rd St, Site of Car-X Bldg
$5,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: Project on hold - Further advancement pending Owner's decision to proceed - No significant advancement anticipated in four (4) months

Actual current status: Project has been dead for a couple years already. This site is the future home of The Moderne.

Park East Square Development (Phase II)
N Broadway, N Milwaukee St, N Water St, E Ogden Ave
$76,000,000 listed valuation

Current status: Early planning continues - Progress pending start of Block 1 and Owner's decision to proceed - No schedules set.

They're hoping to start Phase I by late 2007

This is one of two Park East corridor projects being proposed by RSC. Phase I is the one that most recently raised all the hoopla over tax incremental financing. RSC finally decided to listen to City officials and take the advice of the Downtown Market Study report, scaling back it's plans for Phase I. Developers have been in contact with Target to be one of the main anchor tenants (in a stacked, urban format).

Amtrak project on track
Link to JS article http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=651988
Work to be complete in late November
By MICHELE DERUS
mderus@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Aug. 24, 2007

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/aug07/amtrak082507.jpg

Milwaukee should have an enlarged and beautified downtown Amtrak transportation center in time for Thanksgiving's holiday crush, city spokesman Joel Brennan said Friday.

"It's on time, on budget and scheduled to open the Wednesday before Thanksgiving," said Brennan, assistant executive director of the Redevelopment Authority of the City of Milwaukee.

Considering the phalanx of public and private interests involved in the 433 W. St. Paul Ave. project, Brennan said, "this is quite an accomplishment."

The $15.8 million remodeling project enlarges Amtrak's 1965 bunker-like station by 7,500 square feet, adds a three-story glass atrium and rejiggers space.

Designed to accommodate traffic from both trains and Greyhound buses, now a passenger-frustrating several blocks apart, the new hub is being financed by the City of Milwaukee, Wisconsin Department of Transportation and private investors.

"For the million people who come though this station every year, this is a real opportunity to provide a welcoming experience - a brand new front door to the city," Brennan said.

The prospect of a sunny, spacious transit center has sparked interest from local food and beverage retailers, the city official said, and some contracts are in the works.

The director of a new television series (NBC) set in Milwaukee said he would like his cast and crew to return here to shoot scenes for future episodes.
"I'd rather shoot here," he said.

BIZ JOURNAL (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2007/08/27/daily4.html)

The director of a new television series (NBC) set in Milwaukee said he would like his cast and crew to return here to shoot scenes for future episodes.
"I'd rather shoot here," he said.

BIZ JOURNAL (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2007/08/27/daily4.html)
Cool but why is it that Milwaukee and in fact the state of Wisconsin attract the imagination of producers to base their tv shows from here? I mean, the list of shows that were supposed to be either based in Milwaukee or the state is impressive.

I don't remember all of the names but the shows I can think of are:

Happy Days

Lavern and Shirely

That 70's show

Picket Fences (An hour drama that didn't get near the recognition that it deserved, although it won Emmy's)

A sitcom based in Port Washington staring Susanne Summers and Chris Duffy

There was another one based in Milwaukee but only lasted a few episodes. After LA Law was cancelled, one of the stars of that show was the star of this one but it bombed badly.

^paule, it's probably because people in Hollywood perceive places like Milwaukee as qunitessential midwestern American city landscapes and thus will be able to appeal to a wide audience if they base the characters and situations there.

Cool but why is it that Milwaukee and in fact the state of Wisconsin attract the imagination of producers to base their tv shows from here?

Chicago creates a bumper crop of creative people that head to Hollywood.

Also be on the look out for "Aliens in America" on the CW this fall.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0948546/


Backyards and Bullets is the current name of the project being shot in Los Angeles and Milwaukee. A small tidbit of news was in the paper.

Milwaukee Magazine has an interesting followup to the so called city screw up regarding JCI
http://www.milwaukeemagazine.com/murphyslaw/default.asp?NewMessageID=16167

Before and After
http://www.thebrewerymke.com/stellent/groups/public/documents/ss_asset/thebrewery-bldg29a-s.gif http://www.thebrewerymke.com/stellent/groups/public/documents/ss_asset/thebrewery-bldg29b-s.gif

Joseph Zilber's redevelopment of the Pabst Brewery, dubbed 'The Brewery' (formerly Pabst City), is now listed on the city's development website, along with more information and links on the project.

Department of City Development (http://www.mkedcd.org/projects/TheBrewery/index.html)

Below are conceptual renderings of Blue Ribbon Lofts (courtesy 4240 Architecture). Gorman & Company is under contract to redevelop building No. 9 (Keg House) at The Brewery complex into 92-100 live/work loft apartments.


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3239/blueribbonlofts1yq1.png


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3592/blueribbonlofts2gt8.png


http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2175/blueribbonlofts3uc7.png

I apologize for the double post, however I came across this item in the Small Business Times:


MILWAUKEE OFFICE MARKET HAS A PULSE
By Andrew Weiland
Published August 17, 2007

The slumbering Milwaukee area office market may finally be showing some signs of life. Office space vacancy rates declined in the Milwaukee area during the second quarter of this year, according to a report by Boston-based Colliers International. The company’s local office is Milwaukee-based Colliers Barry.

The report offers good news for Milwaukee’s soft downtown office market. The downtown office space vacancy rate declined from 15.3 percent at the end of the first quarter to 14.1 percent by the end of the second quarter, according to Colliers International. The downtown class A office space vacancy rate fell from 12.1 percent to 9.5 percent.

“I would say we finally appear to be having some momentum where I would argue we are having some real absorption,” said Bill Bonifas, executive vice president for CB Richard Ellis. “It’s headed in the right direction.”

The office space vacancy rate also fell in suburban Milwaukee during the second quarter, from 11.2 percent to 10.9 percent, and is well below the national average of 13.0 percent. Milwaukee’s suburban class A office space vacancy rate fell from 14.1 percent to 12.8 percent, which is still higher than the national average of 11.9 percent, according to Colliers International.

Several recent office space leases have helped reduce the vacancy rate in downtown Milwaukee. The Hall, Render, Killian, Heath & Lyman law firm recently doubled its office space by moving its Milwaukee office from 411 E. Wisconsin Ave. to a 20,000-square-foot space at the Milwaukee Center, 111 E. Kilbourn Ave. In addition, ELM Consulting leased 7,500 square feet of space in the Milwaukee Center, said Lyle Landowski, a broker for Inland Companies, which represents the building. The Milwaukee Center’s occupancy rate has risen from 72 percent to about 82 percent during the last year, he said.

Stark Investments and Reinhardt Boerner Van Deuren S.C. recently added more space in the 1000 N. Water St. building, Bonifas said. The City of Milwaukee Retirement System recently left City Hall and leased 16,000 square feet of space at 789 N. Water St., and Fiduciary Real Estate Development Inc. leased 14,000 square feet of space in the building.

Associated Bank recently leased 23,000 square feet of space in Two Plaza East at 330 E. Kilbourn Ave.

“A number of firms are coming to the end of their leases and they are looking for solutions, needing more space,” said James T. Barry III, president and CEO of Colliers Barry. “The fact that there has not been a lot of new supply put on the market (has helped lower the office space vacancy rate).”

Downtown Milwaukee’s 14.1 percent office space vacancy rate is still considerably higher than the 10.9 percent national average, but Milwaukee’s 9.5 percent downtown class A office space vacancy rate is lower than the 9.8 percent national average, according to Colliers International.

Despite the lower vacancy rate, any new downtown office building development will need to attract an anchor tenant, Bonifas and Barry said. The only major anchor tenant rumored to be considering space downtown is Town of Brookfield-based RedPrairie Corp., Bonifas said. However, Barry said others are in the market.

“I think those (potential anchor) tenants are out there,” Barry said. “There is some active pursuit of those projects.”

Rental rates for existing buildings are lower than what a new building could afford to offer.

“You’re not going to spec a building,” Bonifas said. “New construction is such a premium price compared to existing because you need $20 net to build something new.”


Article link: http://www.biztimes.com/news/2007/8/17/milwaukee-office-market-has-a-pulse

^^^ Congrats, that is excellent news!!

The following rendering is for the Milwaukee International Trade Center, proposed for The Brewery complex. Photo courtesy of Milwaukee International Trade Center.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6078/milwitchprenderinghd9.gif

I guess you can count me as skeptical that this "International Trade Center" won't be anything more that a Chinatown flea market. Maybe I'm too cynical, but China and quality are somewhat diametrically opposed in my book.

But Yi needs a Chinatown flea market!!!111

The following rendering is for the Milwaukee International Trade Center, proposed for The Brewery complex. Photo courtesy of Milwaukee International Trade Center.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6078/milwitchprenderinghd9.gif

If that's going in downtown....then I'll have to say the Franklin Target rendering (without the spiffing up) looks more attractive than that!

If that's going in downtown....then I'll have to say the Franklin Target rendering (without the spiffing up) looks more attractive than that!

the whole left side of that is an exisiting building, that is why it is not the most attractive. but a decent reuse of an ugly, yet in good condition building.

Yea that building was a 70s era warehouse right?

Right.

See http://www.saintjohnsmilw.org/ for a small rendering and other information of what appears to be a 19-20 story addition to Saint John's On the Lake on Prospect. Also see the September addition of M Magazine page 59 city addition, for a rendering of the same building from the lake. Construction is said to start in spring.

the whole left side of that is an exisiting building, that is why it is not the most attractive. but a decent reuse of an ugly, yet in good condition building.

Yea that building was a 70s era warehouse right?

Right.

...And you're telling me they can't tear that sucker down?

It was supposed to be torn down for PabstCity.

I take personal offense to the continued degradation of the era of my birth architecture
i.e. the seventies,

seriously though yeah im serious, this is a good use for a building that hasnt yet outlived its use, we cant let our younger people live without experiencing what happend in those dark days,

im just glad to see the pabst project and other activity,
this is starting to look like the development thread that i remember when i lived in milwaukee, this city is shaping up, and while it may not be as fast as we may want it to be, i think we are exceeding expectations,

i still come up once a month to check on my duplex in riverwest,
as i always will.
I really miss living in milwaukee 24/7,

It was supposed to be torn down for PabstCity.

i wish they would have i cant stand that building!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"House of Blues... Entertainment complex... nah, let's do a low-rise flea market. Brilliant! Brilliant!"

Hopefully this is the very low end of the development we'll see in that space. That property seems way too valuable to have buildings like that.

This would be FAR from a low-end flea market. This is about growing our connections with China, a large and quickly growing market. Milwaukee has a lot of products to sell to China, and vice versa. Forming a strong relationship with them (Yi will only help) could be a major boost to Milwaukee's economy. When a Chinese company is looking to set up an office in the U.S., suddenly Milwaukee will be on their radar screen. Outside investment will help us grow. It is a global economy now and this is exactly the type of stuff we need to be doing to compete, ugly building or not.

Well honestly I don't think Downtown Milwaukee should be represented internationally via an ugly building. What's the saying - a photo says a thousand words? Well, in this case that ugly son of a.. only screams out "cheap cheap cheap" for Milwaukee - not very attractive.

And honestly, I'd rather see some more downtown entertainment venues like House of Blues. We got everything but the big national entertainment brokers. It's about time Milwaukee emerges from the stone age.

The following rendering is for the Milwaukee International Trade Center, proposed for The Brewery complex. Photo courtesy of Milwaukee International Trade Center.

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/6078/milwitchprenderinghd9.gif

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUG-Ly. :ohno: And, yes, CHEAP-looking. Not a good message to send if we want to expand relations with China. Who the hell's idea is this crap, anyway?!

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUG-Ly. :ohno: And, yes, CHEAP-looking. Not a good message to send if we want to expand relations with China. Who the hell's idea is this crap, anyway?!

I'm going to cherish this moment...me and the King actually AGREE on something. Amen! :cheers:

Some things to consider:

1) This proposed Milwaukee International Trade Center IS NOT going to be anything like a flea market. It's going to be an office building in which local companies and foreign companies (there's an emphasis on Chinese, but it's not necessarily limited to just them) can make contact with each other in order to do business together (e.g. if a foreign company needs someone to manufacture some electrical parts for a piece of machinery, they can get in touch with a Milwaukee manufacturer of electrical parts for machinery; if a foreign company produces some sort of consumer good, they can make connections with local area retailers who would then sell those goods to local customers at their stores). It's not a place to shop for cheap stuff (as in a flea market), it is an office building to promote economic/business developments/catalysts.

2) One of Zilber's goals for The Brewery is to create a sustainable development. One way to do so is to actually re-use buildings that can viably be re-used, rather than tearing them down (which only amounts to more energy, time, money, and resources being used to knock it down and build something new that it would to keep it and remodel it for new uses). This building is a big, empty warehouse with lots of open space and a huge floor plates that can be broken down into more flexible, modular, indoor spaces...which just happens to be an ideal configuration for doing what the Milwaukee International Trade Center is supposed to do...which is why it's is envisioned to be retrofitted for that purpose.

3) The rendering is not anything final. It is merely a conceptual illustration from very early on in the design phase where things haven't been fleshed out yet, details are still unknown, and from when only a few investors (money) dedicated to the project at the time it was drawn up. So don't read too much into the drawing.

4) The defunct PabstCity plans called for tearing this building down and putting up a giant parking garage in its place. Zilber's plans call for using the building to stimulate the local economy. There are much better sites within Downtown for entertainment venues than at the Pabst brewery (and recall that there are developers currently working on plans for such things at those better sites).

It is a hell of a lot better than a House of Blues. This can actually grow the economy, whereas HOB will mostly just change how the existing entertainment money is spent. Ugly building or no, we should be thrilled if this happens. This would be a catalytic project, especially for the redevelopment of the rest of Pabst, downtown in general and the metro area as a whole.

I thank markitect for bringing sanity back to
this thread.

reusing buildings is a great idea, nothing is permanent,
and its far better to reuse a building rather than knock it down
for parking or to look at an empty lot for ten years.

I'm going to cherish this moment...me and the King actually AGREE on something. Amen! :cheers:

:cheers1:

Some things to consider:

1) This proposed Milwaukee International Trade Center IS NOT going to be anything like a flea market. It's going to be an office building in which local companies and foreign companies (there's an emphasis on Chinese, but it's not necessarily limited to just them) can make contact with each other in order to do business together (e.g. if a foreign company needs someone to manufacture some electrical parts for a piece of machinery, they can get in touch with a Milwaukee manufacturer of electrical parts for machinery; if a foreign company produces some sort of consumer good, they can make connections with local area retailers who would then sell those goods to local customers at their stores). It's not a place to shop for cheap stuff (as in a flea market), it is an office building to promote economic/business developments/catalysts.

Alright, that's great to know and I'm in full support of this. However, as I said in an earlier post - image means everything to outsiders, especially foreign diplomats. Example: The Chinese Ambassador will be in Oshkosh this week to meet with Oshkosh Trucking execs concerning their expansion into China. If Chinese diplomats will be visiting Milwaukee, let's give them a great, high quality building.

2) One of Zilber's goals for The Brewery is to create a sustainable development. One way to do so is to actually re-use buildings that can viably be re-used, rather than tearing them down (which only amounts to more energy, time, money, and resources being used to knock it down and build something new that it would to keep it and remodel it for new uses). This building is a big, empty warehouse with lots of open space and a huge floor plates that can be broken down into more flexible, modular, indoor spaces...which just happens to be an ideal configuration for doing what the Milwaukee International Trade Center is supposed to do...which is why it's is envisioned to be retrofitted for that purpose.

I applaud Mr. Zilber for this, but once again - we need to be a little more open-minded to possibly tearing down buildings if they don't fit the general image that Milwaukee wants to present. Let's not be so frugal and keep anything and everything just to save a few bucks here and there. Displaying an International Center that stands out in the crowd is something we need - not a trucking depot model.

3) The rendering is not anything final. It is merely a conceptual illustration from very early on in the design phase where things haven't been fleshed out yet, details are still unknown, and from when only a few investors (money) dedicated to the project at the time it was drawn up. So don't read too much into the drawing.

I won't read too much into it if you tell me not to. Right now though, I have to panic a little bit if that was their first draft...

4) The defunct PabstCity plans called for tearing this building down and putting up a giant parking garage in its place. Zilber's plans call for using the building to stimulate the local economy. There are much better sites within Downtown for entertainment venues than at the Pabst brewery (and recall that there are developers currently working on plans for such things at those better sites).

This is pretty much what you said in point #2. I've always been a big PabstCity supporter and I feel the City dropped the ball BIG TIME when it came to this. Much better sites for downtown venues? Oh brother...I'm afraid to ask you what those better sites would be?

I can guess, though. Wisconsin Avenue and Water Street - the two streets that basically make downtown look like a big cross of high rise buildings for the most part.

It is a hell of a lot better than a House of Blues. This can actually grow the economy, whereas HOB will mostly just change how the existing entertainment money is spent. Ugly building or no, we should be thrilled if this happens. This would be a catalytic project, especially for the redevelopment of the rest of Pabst, downtown in general and the metro area as a whole.

Welcoming national entertainment chains like HOB, HRC, etc would only help put Milwaukee on the map more. I'm not going to be thrilled that we shoved an international center into a building that looks like crap. Milwaukee can do much better than this, and I'm disappointed that you don't share this philosophy with me.

"Welcoming nationaly chains like HOB or HRC will put Milwaukee on the map?" So you goto New York to see the Espn Zone? Or Chicago to goto the Hard Rock? Never make it to Bourbon St in New Orleans cause your at the Hard Rock? Seriously? My guess is the MAM puts us on the map, neighborhoods like the Third Ward or the Eastside put us on the map, ratings like the #2 Party City in America (Maxim Magazine) put us on the map. A bunch of chain venues sucking money out of our local economy (chk some research on the impact of chains) they sure don't put us on the map.

This version of the Pabst will involved many many developers over a period of time which will allow for some re-use and some new building allowing for a diversity of building ages and types which is needed to support local business, and avoids the "Disneyland" look and feel. Further we aren't using TIF funds to put local business out oof business.

Now I do agree the building in question is just kinda eh, but not every building will be the Calatrava and its purpose is what matters here.

This is pretty much what you said in point #2. I've always been a big PabstCity supporter and I feel the City dropped the ball BIG TIME when it came to this. Much better sites for downtown venues? Oh brother...I'm afraid to ask you what those better sites would be?

I can guess, though. Wisconsin Avenue and Water Street - the two streets that basically make downtown look like a big cross of high rise buildings for the most part.

Yeah, why would we put entertainment venues and restaurants in well-traveled areas of the city?! They should clearly be put on a plot of land connected to downtown by, well, nothing!

"Welcoming nationaly chains like HOB or HRC will put Milwaukee on the map?" So you goto New York to see the Espn Zone? Or Chicago to goto the Hard Rock? Never make it to Bourbon St in New Orleans cause your at the Hard Rock? Seriously? My guess is the MAM puts us on the map, neighborhoods like the Third Ward or the Eastside put us on the map, ratings like the #2 Party City in America (Maxim Magazine) put us on the map. A bunch of chain venues sucking money out of our local economy (chk some research on the impact of chains) they sure don't put us on the map.

This version of the Pabst will involved many many developers over a period of time which will allow for some re-use and some new building allowing for a diversity of building ages and types which is needed to support local business, and avoids the "Disneyland" look and feel. Further we aren't using TIF funds to put local business out oof business.

Now I do agree the building in question is just kinda eh, but not every building will be the Calatrava and its purpose is what matters here.

You're a very angry man today, two.

Yes, I know a lot of people that go to Chicago for HOB, HRC, ESPN Zone, etc. - all those things because Milwaukee just doesn't want to grasp the concept of trying their best at luring them here. Instead, the response from you is a "suck money" argument that I'd normally hear the King speak about when he's bashing liberals on SSC.

This is definitely a big reason why Milwaukee isn't truly on top of the entertainment scene just yet. Yes, we can grab Maxim Magazine's #2 spot for Party City, but other than that - what's there to boast in entertainment?

We only want to throw all our downtown growth developments on 2 streets? Not very open-minded if we want our downtown area to expand and grow beyond Wisconsin and Water. I guess Milwaukee is truly thinking backwards, as some would definitely argue.

Yeah, why would we put entertainment venues and restaurants in well-traveled areas of the city?! They should clearly be put on a plot of land connected to downtown by, well, nothing!

Hey - PabstCity is very close to the Bradley Center and other arenas. The current Brewery has a lot of connections in and out of the development - and is touted as being in downtown. There's more to Milwaukee than two streets, unless I'm terribly mistaken.

Actually, when you consider the sort of Stalinist buildings that China has, it's not bad. Just really dull.

And will someone please put a multiplex cinema downtown?

We only want to throw all our downtown growth developments on 2 streets? Not very open-minded if we want our downtown area to expand and grow beyond Wisconsin and Water. I guess Milwaukee is truly thinking backwards, as some would definitely argue.


So who said we were talking about the intersection of Water and Wisconsin? Again you just make up your own facts and then get pissed off at a situation that doesn't exist. The Entertainment venues you hold so dearly have been discussed as part of the Ghazi Development at 4th and Wisconsin, and various locations within the Park East redevelopment area.

exit - when I say Water and Wisconsin, I'm not talking about the intersection. I apologize for the confusion. I meant the streets in general.

Is this a City success, or a City blunder as well?

Big dreams for Bronzeville
Investor says he has plans, but city is skeptical about lack of specifics
By TOM DAYKIN
tdaykin@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Aug. 31, 2007
Paul Bachowski has big plans for Milwaukee's Bronzeville area.

An entertainment complex, with a bowling alley, multiscreen cinema and roller skating rink, tied to Bronzeville's history as one of the city's oldest African-American neighborhoods. New housing for families, as well as young professionals. Supermarkets and other retail businesses aimed at new residents and those already living in the neighborhood. Maybe even an office tower. All built along N. King Drive, and on a stretch of W. North Ave. running from King Drive to I-43.

"Bronzeville could be a neighborhood that is Milwaukee's answer to Disney World," said Bachowski, who owns around 40 properties, mostly small apartment buildings, in an area bordered roughly by I-43, Holton St., North Ave. and Burleigh St.

For all his enthusiasm, the City of Milwaukee does not appear ready to embrace Bachowski as a leader of such an effort. Among other things, they say his ideas have lacked specifics.

What's clear for now is that despite some new businesses, Bronzeville's landscape remains marred by empty lots and vacant, crumbling buildings.

Bachowski says his efforts have been hampered by the Department of City Development. The department forced him to sell a prime neighborhood property through the city's eminent domain process, and it is now suing Bachowski over his disputed control of another high-profile lot.

"They've violated my rights," he said.

That's not true, said Rocky Marcoux, city development commissioner.

Marcoux said the forced land sale - for which Bachowski received $125,000 - was done to acquire a deteriorated property that has strong development potential. The city now hopes to see that land developed into an entertainment center, which would help draw people to Bronzeville and spur additional investment, Marcoux said.

Bachowski's plans for the other lot, which the city said he acquired improperly, are vague, Marcoux said.

"You can't really have a discussion around a plan that doesn't exist," he said.

There are other questions about Bachowski's track record as a property owner.

Bachowski acknowledged that he has around 300 outstanding building code violations, but he said those are to be expected for an investor who buys central city properties that are in poor condition. He said he works hard to correct those violations and has invested much time and money into his buildings.

Investment opportunities
Bachowski, 32, was working in the property management department at We Energies when he began considering real estate investment opportunities in Milwaukee's central city. He started buying properties three years ago in the Bronzeville neighborhood, and its larger, surrounding area, which city planning officials call Harambee - a Swahili word that translates to "working together."

Bachowski says he was motivated, in part, by altruism. He says he wants to help the inner city, and has made a point of hiring neighborhood residents to work on his properties.

Bachowski eventually quit his job at We Energies to devote himself full-time to his properties, including commercial buildings totaling over 52,000 square feet in the 2200, 2400, 2700 and 2800 blocks of King Drive.

He also moved to the neighborhood, buying a hilltop house on N. 1st St. Bachowski, who grew up in Wauwatosa, admits he was "terrified" about living in an area with its share of robberies and shootings. But he got over his fears, and says he now appreciates the camaraderie of his neighbors.

Bachowski's decision to buy dozens of properties in Harambee also was rooted in his calculation of the area's prospects. He sees rising residential property values, propelled by investments in the nearby Brewers Hill and Riverwest neighborhoods.

The commercial areas along King Drive and North Ave. will benefit as retailers realize they can cash in on the spending power of neighborhood residents, Bachowski said.

"They have the ability to spend money," he said about Harambee's residents, "but no place to spend it."

Bronzeville, he said, could be the next big development area for Milwaukee. It's near downtown, just off I-43, and already has some promising developments, such as America's Black Holocaust Museum and the upscale new Soche restaurant and lounge.

Bachowski insists his plans are not unrealistic - as long as city officials and others support him.

"King Drive is going to turn fast," Bachowski said. "But it's going to take people to realize it's a good place to do business."

Court tussles
Bachowski and city officials have tangled in court a couple of times in recent years. The latest dispute heated up on Aug. 7, when the Redevelopment Authority sued him to take possession of a King Drive lot formerly owned by the city.

Baken Investment Group, led by Milwaukee accountant William Coleman, bought the lot, at 2231 N. King Drive, from the city in 2002 for $9,375. Coleman planned to develop a 21,000-square-foot office building for his accounting firm, Coleman & Williams Ltd.

Coleman's plans never got off the drawing board, and in 2005 Baken sold the lot for $120,000 to Bachowski, whose properties include a neighboring building.

The authority's lawsuit, which also named Baken as a defendant, claims Baken had no right to sell the land. The suit said the sale agreement with Baken required the lot be returned to the authority if the office building wasn't developed. The authority contacted Bachowski and Baken in 2006, demanding the land's return, the suit said.

This dispute comes two years after the Redevelopment Authority condemned a car wash that Bachowski owned at 2225 N. 7th St. The city wanted the property, which Marcoux said was blighted, because of its key location at Bronzeville's gateway - south of North Ave., just east of I-43.

"It's very important to the development of Bronzeville," Marcoux said about the site.

The Department of City Development has since offered to sell the property to an investors group, led by former Milwaukee Bucks Coach Terry Porter, that has proposed a sports and entertainment complex, including a restaurant.

Marcoux said Bachowski could have pursued his development plans for the car wash site. Bachowski, however, said his plans required the acquisition of adjacent properties, which he said city development officials refused to support.

Meanwhile, Bachowski used money from the car wash sale to buy the King Drive property from Baken Investment Group after Coleman dropped his plans for the office building.

Bachowski said he's spoken with Madison-based Gorman & Co. about developing an apartment building, with a street-level grocery store, on the King Drive lot.

Chris Laurent, Gorman's Wisconsin market president, said the firm looked at the King Drive lot, but did not pursue the property because it is too small, and lacks direct access to North Ave.

"Yeah, it's frustrating," Bachowski said. "Why is the city not working with me?"

Does anyone know the progress of Eerie St Plaza? Last I heard the neighborhood was complaining about some of the design elements, but when I recently drove past I noticed some construction action.

Is this a City success, or a City blunder as well?

Hmm, not sure what to think about this article. For some reason, this guy screams sleeze-ball trying to make a quick buck. I don't think Bronzeville should be thought of as instant-megaplex redevelopment zone, but instead a place where local business owners can try and get some funding to redevelop the area.

Does anyone know the progress of Eerie St Plaza? Last I heard the neighborhood was complaining about some of the design elements, but when I recently drove past I noticed some construction action.

The proposed Erie Street Plaza is on hold indefinitely. Nearby residents and a developer caused enough of a fuss over the design (it would attract rats, the bamboo would spread and become an invasive species, they wanted to use the site for a parking lot, etc.) to have the project delayed, at the very least. The bid to build the plaza came in several hundred thousand dollars over budget, so it was supposed to be be rebid and/or possibly redesigned. Also, the site is being used for a Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District shaft/tunnel construction project right now, which is expected to be finished in summer 2009.

"Milwaukee just doesn't want to grasp the concept of trying their best at luring them here." Things like HOB, Hard Rock Cafe, and ESPN Zone add nothing to what is unique about Milwaukee or any city. In fact they make Milwaukee less unique...

"Instead, the response from you is a "suck money" argument that I'd normally hear the King speak about when he's bashing liberals on SSC." I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say here but what I was saying is that chains take money out of the local economy (there's plenty of research on this topic).

The point of all this again is that the current Pabst project is better than the original as it will allow for more organic growth, building re-use that will allow for a diversity of building ages, a diversity of builders allowing for more than one architectural design, and we won't be spending tax payers money to hurt local business.

"This is definitely a big reason why Milwaukee isn't truly on top of the entertainment scene just yet. Yes, we can grab Maxim Magazine's #2 spot for Party City, but other than that - what's there to boast in entertainment? " Well apparently Maxim Magazine thinks Milwaukee is a pretty fun city..... And I'd say the Riverside or the Pabst are better venues than anything the HOB has to offer, the Hard Rock is well pertty much a dying chain and we have plenty of sports bars to compete with ESPN Zone. And as far as entertainment.. I don't know a world class art museum, the world's largest music festival... actually more nonstop festivals in the city than you can attempt to even goto, an up and coming art scene thanks to MIAD, a large park system... and on and on.

A few thoughts:

I'm not sure what the huge outcry is over the "design" of the International Trade Center. First, that not a great rendering, and evidently isn't reflective of a final design anyway. Second, it isn't that bad. It's not a glorious building, but it seems anonymous at worst. Third, if you want to have sustainable design, you have to make a committment to that. When there's a perfectly good building, in a perfectly good location, that is well suited to the use you're after, you use it, or else you really don't care about sustainability. This seems like very efficient re-use to me. Finally, the idea that business will be hurt because this isn't the most gorgeous building conceivable makes little sense to me. I doubt many foreign business people are going to be brought from the airport right to this building, never see any other areas of the city, and be so disgusted with it that they won't do business in the city. Milwaukee has so much going for it architecturally that outweights one building (that I don't think is that bad to begin with), that when combined with my earlier remarks, this sort of reuse seems like a good fit.

As for the whole HOB, HRC, entertainment complex issue: I'm dubious of the whole idea of an entertainment complex. I worry that they are the new urban mall, and that in 20 years cities across the country will be trying to figure out what to do with their failed entertainment complexes. Venues patched into the urban fabric - great. Venues conceived as sort of a one-stop location for entertainment - scary.

Additionally, I was in DC this weekend and when we walked by the HRC, I said to my wife, "does anyone go there anymore?" I'm sure people do, but those sorts of places used to be special, and now having one is, at best, just trying to "keep up." I don't think they are the end of the world, but I don't think they are worth any effort to attract. If a city is doing other things right and creating a vibrant place, they'll come anyway without specifically being attracted, but I don't think they should be looked at as a tool to put Milwaukee (or any city) "on the map."

danillo I couldn't agree with you more, you said it much better than I could on all your points.

Great...

Honestly I'd rather hear what a Chicagoan or a resident from Minneapolis has to say - those are the world class cities we need to continue to move closer to.

Great...

Honestly I'd rather hear what a Chicagoan or a resident from Minneapolis has to say - those are the world class cities we need to continue to move closer to.


:poke: So, move already. :yes:

Honestly I'd rather hear what a Chicagoan or a resident from Minneapolis has to say - those are the world class cities we need to continue to move closer to.
if you're talking about the HOB, hard rock cafe, branded entertainment complex issue, i'd say it's a mixed bag. hard rock cafe is nothing special, but i guess it's another place for tourists to eat over-priced mediocre food. the chicago HOB is pretty damn cool though because they built it in the theater building of the marina city complex (where i live). the fact that it's a house of blues chain isn't really all that cool, it's more the venue itself that makes it a good place to see a show. again, the house of blues chain itself will not make or break your city, what matters much more is the quality of the physical performance space itself.

as for dedicated entertainment complexes, i have my doubts about the long term viability of such concoctions. it's FAR better to mix entertainment destinations into the existing urban fabric of the city. keeping uses mixed-up keeps overall activity levels up at various times of the day/night, which helps contribute to the critical mass necessary to allow an urban place to behave in an urban fashion.

just this chicagoan's 2 cents.

After hearing many of the arguments that were posed here, I don't think building will be terrible for the city. If it has a measurable effect on the growth of international trade in the city, then it is worth it. I guess my dream would be that the Pabst is restored in such a fashion that the historical importance of that place shines through. As far as I can imagine, a lively destination with homes, entertainment, retail, all blended into that spot would be best. I guess my concern is that this building will begin a trend where we will see low-rise office structures fill that space. To me, that would seem like a waste.

:poke: So, move already. :yes:

I'd love to but my income isn't up there yet. :) It always seems whenever I travel south they always have their minds set on the future and on improving things - everything always looks better on every level. Over here, asking for something a bit more pricey in exchange for future pride in the community, and a true international commerce location is almost utterly shameful.

Milwaukee does not need House of Blues, Hard Rock, or ESPN Zone. Why? Every city has these overpriced themed joints. These will not make the city unique or a "party city". It will just make Milwaukee more like Orlando or the Mall of America.

Milwaukee has plenty to boast in terms of entertainment. If eating an overpriced burger with a naked Arnold Swartzeneggar sitting over your head is entertainment, then shoot me now. Last I checked, the city already had a famous themed resturant that is twenty times more orignal then ESPN Zone. Ever hear of the Safehouse? And you can find the ESPN Zone experience at the Firepit Sports Bar in Potawatomi, or basically any of the many sports bars in town. House of Blues? What makes HoB better then the Rave or the Pabst Theater?

Not very open-minded if we want our downtown area to expand and grow beyond Wisconsin and Water. I guess Milwaukee is truly thinking backwards, as some would definitely argue.
.


Focusing on Water St. is probally the best way to develop downtown, in my opinion. Doing so will help downtown "grow and expand". The projects at the North end of Water St. will tie the entertainment district on the street, to hotspots on Brady St./Eastside, making them feel more apart of the downtown area. The huge developments at North End and those Park East projects will bridge the gap between the bustling Eastside and bustling downtown, making the downtown area feel larger and more vibrant.

A few thoughts:

I'm not sure what the huge outcry is over the "design" of the International Trade Center. First, that not a great rendering, and evidently isn't reflective of a final design anyway. Second, it isn't that bad. It's not a glorious building, but it seems anonymous at worst. Third, if you want to have sustainable design, you have to make a committment to that. When there's a perfectly good building, in a perfectly good location, that is well suited to the use you're after, you use it, or else you really don't care about sustainability. This seems like very efficient re-use to me. Finally, the idea that business will be hurt because this isn't the most gorgeous building conceivable makes little sense to me. I doubt many foreign business people are going to be brought from the airport right to this building, never see any other areas of the city, and be so disgusted with it that they won't do business in the city. Milwaukee has so much going for it architecturally that outweights one building (that I don't think is that bad to begin with), that when combined with my earlier remarks, this sort of reuse seems like a good fit.
."



clearly you don't see that building every day....... it is horrible, a monstosity, if it isnt demolished i may have to buy it and tear it down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The proposed Erie Street Plaza is on hold indefinitely.

That's too bad, thanks for the update though.

From jsonline

The owners of a downtown Milwaukee office building will receive $3.2 million in city financing for a $22.9 million redevelopment project under a measure approved today by the Common Council.

The council voted 12-2 to help pay for repairs of a 295,000-square-foot office building at 735 N. Water St. and repairs of the building's riverwalk. The money will be repaid through property taxes generated by improvements to the building, and to a neighboring building.

Compass Properties LLC wants to make cornice improvements to the 735 N. Water St. building and convert an 80,000-square-foot building, at 731 N. Water St., into condominiums and a parking structure.

The 16-story building at 735 N. Water St. was completed in 1913 as the headquarters for First Wisconsin National Bank.

That building is leased to office tenants, including PrivateBank and Trust Co. The eight-story building at 731 N. Water St., built in 1962 as an annex to the First Wisconsin building, has been vacant for more than 15 years.

Today's vote reversed a council decision at its July 31 meeting to reject the financing plan.

Opponents said in July that the funding plan would set a precedent for owners of other historic downtown office buildings to seek similar assistance. Aldermen said the Department of City Development needs to create guidelines to handle such requests.

Also, opponents cited a report from the city comptroller's office, which questioned whether city funding was necessary for the project.

Ald. Michael Murphy cited those concerns today in voting against the financing plan. He was joined in opposition by Ald. Michael D'Amato.

After the meeting, Murphy said he plans to introduce legislation to create guidelines on city financing for historic building repairs.

Department of City Development officials are drafting such guidelines as part of their update to the downtown land use plan, said department spokeswoman Andrea Rowe Richards.

clearly you don't see that building every day....... it is horrible, a monstosity, if it isnt demolished i may have to buy it and tear it down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's a difference between isn't a good building and can't be a good building. With the right work I think it could be decent on the outside and probably pretty nice inside, but that's just my opinion. That drawing isn't the best, I'd take out the tacky, giant red lettering for instance, but with the right work I think it would probably be worth saving.