Just looking for your opinion on public transportation in seattle. Pros and cons. I have seattle on my list on which cities to move to because I can not stand where I live anymore.

Extensive bus system, growing light rail system (first segment opens in 09, small extension opening in '16, possibility for massive expansion by 2030). Transit agency also runs a service called flex-car which is pretty cool (basically a rent-a-car for a day service run by the city). Definitely room for improvement, but improvement is definitely being made.

Seattle has the best bus system I have ever used. Pretty damn comprehensive, and more reliable than most. Not sure where you're coming from, but there are also plenty of neighborhoods in Seattle that are very walkable. Biking is also an option that a huge number of people in Seattle chose to take, which is pretty unique.

However, if you are going to be dependent on bus, be sure to check the lines available with people here, as somebody has probably has ridden it before and can testify to the quality.

Here is a discussion I read recently on the best/worst routes in the system-
http://seatrans.blogspot.com/2007/06/best-worst-bus-routes.html

Also, one thing to consider is that we don't really have any kind of rail or bus on right of way (except for a decent commuter train called "the Sounder"), so most of the time you are slave to traffic conditions. We do have dedicated HOV lanes which help sometimes. We also have light rail on the way in 2009, so if you are going to be here for that, you might consider living near a stop.

Also, not sure what your income range is, but there is also living near a streetcar stop. I'm sure it's good fun, but also really pricey.

Those buses are similar to where I am from in SF. Do seattle public transportation have a good on time record? I only drive if I really have to, otherwise I take the bus or train instead. I hate driving thats why I am trying to decide which cities are convenient. Plus I think Seattle has similar weather to SF unless I am wrong. It will be a while before I have a firm decision. But most likely will be moving after I am done with college. I don't know if its appropriate to ask about different salaries for different cities. If Seattle salaries considered to be kind of low for accountants.

I don't consider Seattle metro area bus system to be the best due to no 24 hour bus services. What if a janitor doesn't have a car and needs a bus home middle of the night? They do have 24 hour bus services in San Francisco area.

I know there are some essentially 24 hour routes, like the 83 from the U-District.

As for weather here, it's a little warmer in the summer and a little colder in the winter than San Francisco. Although, it rarely gets into the 80s for summer and almost never gets cold enough to snow in the winter. Seattle does not live up to its rainy city reputation as far as gross precipitation goes, but we do have our fair share of overcast days.

As for salaries, I know Seattle is very competitive with other major cities and has a very strong job market. However, while Seattle is not a cheap place to live rent-wise by any means, it's cheaper than most places in the Bay Area.

Back to mass transit though, thought these numbers might be of interest-

source: http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/american_community_survey_acs/010230.html

Tops in Biking to Work
1. Portland 3.5%
2. Minneapolis 2.4%
3. Seattle 2.3%
4. Tucson 2.2%
5. San Francisco 1.8%
6. Sacramento 1.8%
7. Washington, D.C. 1.7%
8. Oakland 1.5%
9. Honolulu 1.4%
10. Denver 1.4%

Tops in Working at Home
1. San Francisco 6.3%
2. Portland 5.3%
3. Seattle 5.1%
4. Austin 5.0%
5. Colorado Springs 4.9%
6. Atlanta 4.7%
7. Los Angeles 4.7%
8. Denver 4.7%
9. San Diego 4.6%
10. Washington, D.C. 4.4%

Tops in use of Public Transit
1. New York 54.6%
2. Washington, D.C. 37.7%
3. San Francisco 32.7%
4. Boston 31.7%
5. Philadelphia 25.9%
6. Chicago 25.3%
7. Baltimore 18.9%
8. Seattle 17.0%
9. Oakland 16.5%
10. Portland 13.3%

Tops in Walking to Work
1. Boston 12.5%
2. Washington, D.C. 10.0%
3. San Francisco 9.6%
4. New York 9.4%
5. Philadelphia 8.1%
6. Honolulu 6.9%
6. Seattle 6.9%
7. Minneapolis 5.8%
8. Chicago 5.5%
9. Baltimore 5.4%

In the summer, it barely hit 80 degrees? Now that is really nice. I just can't stand the heat. I am suprise to see Seattle is lower percentage than SF in Tops in use of Public Transit and Walking to Work.

Seattle has an excellent bus system. One of reasons why I moved to Seattle because of better public transportation since I can't drive for personal reason. I almost move to Portland, Oregon but I like Seattle better. Soon Seattle will have streetcar and light rail. Streetcar will open this December. First part of light rail from Sea-Tac International Airport to downtown Seattle will open in 2009. The rest of it will open in 2016 and 2027.

In the summer, it barely hit 80 degrees? Now that is really nice. I just can't stand the heat. I am suprise to see Seattle is lower percentage than SF in Tops in use of Public Transit and Walking to Work.

Soon it will change when streetcar and light rail opens. :)

SF will always have more transit and pedestrian commutes. It's much denser.

Seattle has an excellent bus system. One of reasons why I moved to Seattle because of better public transportation since I can't drive for personal reason. I almost move to Portland, Oregon but I like Seattle better. Soon Seattle will have streetcar and light rail. Streetcar will open this December. First part of light rail from Sea-Tac International Airport to downtown Seattle will open in 2009. The rest of it will open in 2016 and 2027.

How would you compare the new light rail in seattle there to bay area BART? Would the streetcar there in seattle be similiar to SF muni street cars?

How would you compare the new light rail in seattle there to bay area BART? Would the streetcar there in seattle be similiar to SF muni street cars?

If ST2 is approved, the Link light rail system will be larger than the BART system and carry a similiar number of passengers on an average weekday. (According to Sound Transit...)

As far as streetcars go, they would not be as large as the muni streetcars nor would they run multiple unit trains like they do with muni. It would be similiar to the Portland Streetcar.

How would you compare the new light rail in seattle there to bay area BART? Would the streetcar there in seattle be similiar to SF muni street cars?

I can't compare it because it hasn't open yet. I would say BART is better than Seattle light rail system just for now. After second and third part of Seattle light rail complete, it may become better than BART. I can't really have an opinion for Seattle light rail because I haven't ride it and they aren't open yet. I rode BART once and I was little disappointed with BART because it didn't go everywhere where I want to go to. I'm also little disappointed with Seattle light rail route because it doesn't connected to some areas that I want to go to and it will be take many years to complete entire light rail system.

Seattle already has two streetcars route. One on waterfront but it is closed and will reopen when new maintenance barn complete. Second one is at downtown Seattle to South Union Lake neighborhood. It is good system. City of Seattle is considering to add a several new streetcar lines within few years from now. Unforunately, these streetcars can't go uphill or downhill just like San Fransisco trolleys do. Hopefully one day, City of Seattle will come up with new public transit system that can handle hills.

It really depends on what you're looking for. Do you plan to live Downtown or in the burbs? Your transportation options will vary greatly depending on that. If you live and work downtown, then things will be much easier for you.

^^ I agree.

It really depends on what you're looking for. Do you plan to live Downtown or in the burbs? Your transportation options will vary greatly depending on that. If you live and work downtown, then things will be much easier for you.

Planning to live in the downtown area. I don't know if downtown is expensive or not but I am guessing it most likely is.

I have another out of the question. Do you think seattle drivers are alot better than california? I just can't stand driving here in CA anymore. Its getting worse and worse. Thats why I just drive like once a week. I have been to spokane and yakima but not to seattle. I use to drive a big rig and picked up apple juice from there thats why I was able to go up there.

^^ Bad drivers are everywhere. We got bad drivers around here in Seattle too. No city is perfect. Faster and rough drivers are usually newcomers from everywhere in USA and the world. Slower drivers are grassroots.

i grew up in spokane and i've travelled extensively in california and i can tell you seattle is nowhere near as crazy as california. definitely better than chicago and washington dc too if you have ever been there.

worse than spokane though, to be sure. (although when people are being speedy assholes here, they generally know what they are doing, unlike spokane)

I grew up in Boston where driving is a blood sport, so when I moved to Seattle, drivers seemed pretty tame. Once, a few years ago I said in a magazine interview that, "Thousands of years from now, archeologists will find remains of Seattle drivers at four-way stop signs, each waiting for the others to proceed"

^^ Bad drivers are everywhere. We got bad drivers around here in Seattle too. No city is perfect. Faster and rough drivers are usually newcomers from everywhere in USA and the world. Slower drivers are grassroots.

Is seattle like oregons where they hate newcomers? Or oregons is usually with the biggest ego. NO offense to oregon.

Is seattle like oregons where they hate newcomers? Or oregons is usually with the biggest ego. NO offense to oregon.

Only grassroots hate newcomers. Newcomers welcome another newcomers. I know what you mean about Oregon. I lived in Oregon before I move here. No offensive to Oregonians, I look down at them because of their narrow minded to the diversity and they got no class. I have a second home there because I got relatives there.

Only reason why they hate newcomers because they don't like the change. They won't admit that they love newcomers because they made them rich by drove their property values to skyrocket, created thousands of new jobs in their communities and attracted many retailers/restaurants to their communities. They're taking advantage of newcomers only for economic reasons but they won't speak or be friend with them though. Some of them even said that. Seattle grassroots aren't bad as Oregonians. They're very openly people to the change and acceptable to the diversity.

if there's something I admire of Seattle is the great transportation system it has, you really can rely on it.

How hard is it to add more buses or light rail to the outer regions of Seattle? I live in Everett and have a hard time trying to find a bus to places like Seattle, Bellevue, Seatac Airport, or even nearby places.

Instead of having so many transit agencies, we should just combine all transit agencies into one super one serving local and regional routes. Then there wouldn't be so many conflicts with transit agencies about bus routes and passengers probably would not have to make so many transfers.

Speaking of light rail, I was shocked to hear that it might take 50 years to extend light rail from Seattle to Everett, assuming funding is secured. That is just absolutely ridiculous. How did other places, like Taipei, Vancouver, or Portland, have such wonderful mass transit systems several years ago when ours is still under construction? If Soundtransit had approved a better route that ran on the surface or elevated completely, construction might have been done by now and maybe extended to other destinations in the region.

We are in deep trouble...........

ST2 will take it to 164th & Ash, which is two stops north of Lynnwood, much earlier than that, like in the next 10 years. Presumably an extension to central Everett would happen at some point. I think you're thinking of how long the mortgage will last.

It would be nice to fund buses regionally. But aside from the Sound Transit routes, most buses are served by counties -- including Community Transit in Snohomish.

Speaking of light rail, I was shocked to hear that it might take 50 years to extend light rail from Seattle to Everett, assuming funding is secured. That is just absolutely ridiculous. How did other places, like Taipei, Vancouver, or Portland, have such wonderful mass transit systems several years ago when ours is still under construction? If Soundtransit had approved a better route that ran on the surface or elevated completely, construction might have been done by now and maybe extended to other destinations in the region.

We are in deep trouble...........

It wasn't that it would take 50 years to complete it, its that it would take 50 years to PAY for it. The bonds that the agency would have to take out would take 50 years to pay off. The complete system would be finished by 2027 (20 years). Considering it will take 6 years to complete the initial segment (2003-2009) that doesn't sound too bad.

^^ yeah, but think about how OLD you'll be by then

and think how big seattle will be

So while I was at the Bellevue Arts festival last weekend, I grabbed a brochure from the Sound Transit stand about the ST2 project. Just reading over it, I noticed part of pamphlet focuses on success stories from other cities (reducing traffic in Denver, capital investment in Dallas, etc.). The one that struck me was the one about Salt Lake City's TRAX light rail. It says in the little blerb about it that voters actually voted to increase taxes to bump the completion date of extensions up from 2030 to 2015. Anyone have any info on that? Whats the scale of the expansions they're proposing? Could we do something similar in Seattle, or is 20 just how long its going to take to build all that stuff?

^^

i don't think they actually have a set time table for it. it's just by at least 2027 if im not mistaken? maybe we should just give them the money now and then petition to have them get it done in 10. seems reasonable to me...

^^ I agree. I'm willing to pay more taxes for that. I don't like the idea of having entire light rail system to be completed by year 2027. It is too long time from now. We need it be finished before year 2020.

Portland's light rail system isn't even all completed and it's still expanding. They first opened it in 1986 so it's more than 20 years now. They have been arguing about the extension to Vancouver, WA. The I-205 freeway route is under construction and should open in 2009. We are not alone about how long it takes.

Seattle needs more transit, even though they are one of the best in the nation, Minneapolis has been planning for decades, we finnaly got one in 2004.

That is a long time to complete a LRT System.... 20 years to extend LRT, and it wont even go to Everett. Hopefully by 2035 there will be LRT to Everett, across the 520 bridge, to Issaquah, to West Seattle/Burien, and to Ballard. Make Sounder a EMU/DMU service with 15 minute frequencies, extend to Mount Vernon, and Olympia, or Possibly Portland. Add hourly Amtrak Hi-Speed service between Vancouver, BC, and Portland, OR.

For the bus route being our ONLY mass transit option in the greater Seattle area I think it's terrible. I live in the U District so I can get around ok but when I was growing up in North East Kirkland the bus wasn't even an option. The current bus system is such a minor attempt at mass transit, it really gets on my nerves. I'm excited to see some light rail lines going up though. I just hope they are sufficient and keep expanding.

On the other hand I also can't stand how many people in this region refuse to use the bus/walk/bike etc. I enjoy walking and busing to get around but I have friends that will only drive, even when it's 5 blocks to get teriyaki. This mentality has got to change around here. I get so worked up when my friends refuse to take the bus to go to the Sonics games or anywhere downtown. I should be more patient but I'm tired of this automobile reliant region.

Portland's light rail system isn't even all completed and it's still expanding. They first opened it in 1986 so it's more than 20 years now. They have been arguing about the extension to Vancouver, WA. The I-205 freeway route is under construction and should open in 2009. We are not alone about how long it takes.

That is encouraging. Maybe I'm mistaken but it just seems like these ideas get bogged down for years and years in sessions, and discussions and what not. I guess I'm stubborn but I just want to see it built. If it's not %100 perfect then take the necessary steps to make it so.

At least it's finally coming along around here. Now I just hope it grows and grows. The whole region needs it badly!!

^^ I agree. I'm willing to pay more taxes for that. I don't like the idea of having entire light rail system to be completed by year 2027. It is too long time from now. We need it be finished before year 2020.

I agree 100% as well.

The problem is the mentality in this region though. Too many people are too stubborn to get out of their cars or to approve a tax that will help them get out of their cars.

On the other hand I also can't stand how many people in this region refuse to use the bus/walk/bike etc. I enjoy walking and busing to get around but I have friends that will only drive, even when it's 5 blocks to get teriyaki. This mentality has got to change around here. I get so worked up when my friends refuse to take the bus to go to the Sonics games or anywhere downtown. I should be more patient but I'm tired of this automobile reliant region.

I agree completely with you. Sometime I have this conversation with some people who are extremely automobile dependant. They refused to use bus or any type of public transit system. Why? They're not ready to make some changes in their lives. Last thing, they're afraid that if they use it, they would get lost in somewhere in Seattle metro area or any metro area and unable to get back to home. I understand why they are afraid to use it. When I first moved to Seattle, I never ride a city bus before in my life and I was afraid to use it. Lucky I know some people around here before I moved here. They showed me how to use it and around Seattle. It gave me a several months to get adjust to this change. Now I use buses all the time to get around here. I personally think some people who are refused to use any type of public transit system should try to ride it with another people who have the knowledge how to use it. It may convince them to make some changes in their lives too.

I agree 100% as well.

The problem is the mentality in this region though. Too many people are too stubborn to get out of their cars or to approve a tax that will help them get out of their cars.

Some people don't like the changes. :ohno: More than 3/4 of my relatives are ones of them. :ohno:

I agree completely with you. Sometime I have this conversation with some people who are extremely automobile dependant. They refused to use bus or any type of public transit system. Why? They're not ready to make some changes in their lives. Last thing, they're afraid that if they use it, they would get lost in somewhere in Seattle metro area or any metro area and unable to get back to home. I understand why they are afraid to use it. When I first moved to Seattle, I never ride a city bus before in my life and I was afraid to use it. Lucky I know some people around here before I moved here. They showed me how to use it and around Seattle. It gave me a several months to get adjust to this change. Now I use buses all the time to get around here. I personally think some people who are refused to use any type of public transit system should try to ride it with another people who have the knowledge how to use it. It may convince them to make some changes in their lives too.

I agree, some people are intimidated and there are some details you have to learn, like sometimes you pay when you board, other times you don't. And the names and routes can be confusing, it might be better to name a route after a neighborhood or the street it spends most of its time on, rather than an obscure street name where the line ends. Like the #5 for example, there's the 5 to Shoreline and the 5 to NSCC, why they couldn't just use 2 different numbers (since at 105th street they become totally different routes) is beyond me.

^^ Oh yeah! I remember how confusing it was when I first learned how to use it.

Seattle metro bus system is already successful. I think they can improve a bit just to convince automobile dependants to use it more by able to be clear with its routes, better maps, and add more buses on streets that don't have bus routes on it yet.

^^ In Minneapolis they just add a letter if the route has a common segment, then branches off, so the 5A would go to northgate, and the 5B would go to shoreline. It's fine for one or two branches, but in Minneapolis the OVERKILL it, it defeats the purpose, it is supposed to make it easier for the main portion of the route, but some routes will have 15 letters. One problem years ago was there was two numbering systems: Minneapolis and St. Paul. Sometimes there were dupicate numbers such as Mpls. 12 and St. Paul 12, but this was only noted on pocket schedules. Then freeway buses would have the same number. If a bus used I-94 it was a 94 bus followed by a letter, no matter if it went east or west from downtown. The same went for buses using I-35W and I-35E, different freeways, all routes number 35. Recently bus routes have been simplified to have only one or two letters, with some still having 5 or so, the other thing is a new numbering system (implemented in 2001) making each area have a common range of numbers (such as northwest metro is 700 series routes), as well as freeway buses having seperate numbers. Letters should be added to routes in Seattle, thankfully the Seattle system doesn't have many branches to add confusion.

and think how big seattle will be

I hope seattle won't become as bad as california or some of the bigger cities. But who knows what the outcome is.

How would you compare the new light rail in seattle there to bay area BART? Would the streetcar there in seattle be similiar to SF muni street cars?

BART is a regional transit system, so doesn't compare directly to light rail anywhere. BART stations are from a mile to a few miles apart. The main orientation of BART is to bring commuters from the East Bay suburbs to downtown SF. Commuters generally drive to BART, which provides large parking lots or ramps at many outlying stations.

I hope seattle won't become as bad as california or some of the bigger cities. But who knows what the outcome is.

I doubt Seattle will become bad place to live since Seattle is improving dramatically lately. Only three things Seattle needs to improve... Public transit, homeless problems, and city government.

I doubt Seattle will become bad place to live since Seattle is improving dramatically lately. Only three things Seattle needs to improve... Public transit, homeless problems, and city government.


Don't forget the following:
- Roads (in terms of safety and repair)
- Crime
- Viaduct
- Housing
- Zoning problems
- Crime
- Sonics/Storms
- Parking
- Seattle Center
- Pike Place Market
- City Budget
- Taxes

I'm pretty sure there are more problems with Seattle than the ones I listed. Yeah, Seattle is improving dramatically....:ohno:

^^ Those issues you mentioned above are extremely common issues that the majority of major cities must deal with. It's nothing new, and something that every city dweller manages to adjust to.

Whats wrong with the Seattle Center, and Pike Place Market, are they subsidized by the City of Seattle?

^Supposedly the citizens of Seattle will vote next year on how to keep both institutions in good shape. The proposal for Seattle Center could be very dramatic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZhdfZWlYJo&mode=related&search=

It's about please don't tear up the eastside rail from Renton to Woodinville, it could be great to fix it up and use it for commuter rail from Renton to the Eastside! I think it's better than just tearing it up just to use it for few bicyclists that use the trail.

Don't forget the following:
- Roads (in terms of safety and repair)
- Crime
- Viaduct
- Housing
- Zoning problems
- Crime
- Sonics/Storms
- Parking
- Seattle Center
- Pike Place Market
- City Budget
- Taxes

I'm pretty sure there are more problems with Seattle than the ones I listed. Yeah, Seattle is improving dramatically....:ohno:

I meant in the general with development, diversity, restaurant/store choices, number of events that are happening in Seattle, economy, and many positive things about Seattle. If you compare Seattle to many US cities... Seattle isn't bad as compared to some of US cities with serious issues. We should apperciate the way Seattle is right now.