Good news! All border crossings in Eastern European countries will be removed by December 2007!

EU to lift border checks as "Christmas gift" to new members
(BUDAPEST) - The European Union will in December lift border controls for citizens of nine countries which joined the bloc in 2004, a top official said Monday, adding that the move was a "Christmas present."

"We can confirm our original plans to lift land borders and maritime borders by December of this year and airport borders by March 2008," Justice Commissioner Franco Frattini told a press conference also addressed by Hungarian Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany.

"We would expect to lift borders between mid-December and the end of December in the Christmas time, as a Christmas gift to all the citizens of Europe," Frattini said.

He said a formal political decision on admitting the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia into the Schengen free-movement zone would be taken in November.

The Schengen treaty, which abolished border checks between its members, counts 15 participating countries: all the oldest EU members except Britain and Ireland, plus non-EU nations Norway and Iceland.



:cheers:

I wish that they could do something like that here in North America. I'm still amazed that many of the countries in the Schengen zone have fought truly VICIOUS wars against each other more than once within the past 100 years, while the USA and Mexico have been at peace for 100 years or so and the USA and Canada haven't fired a shot in anger at each other since the end of the War of 1812 - and yet the checkpoints in North America are getting harder and harder to cross on a nearly daily basis.

:ohno: :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

As it is now, though, I do see a lot of similarities between the Schengen zone and the USA itself, when you think of the individual USA states as being country-like semi-sovereign entities that all use a common currency and a common external border.

Mike

So....does this mean that I don't have to show my ID-card when I'm going to Finland, for example??? :) ...This is great! I knew that it will happen some day but not so soon. I thought of something like in the middle of 2008.

(I can drive to Portugal without stopping, wooohhooo! :D)

If you drive to Germany, you can pass Latvia, Lithuania and Poland, all without stopping at the borders :) Saves you at least a couple of hours.

I think it might be a boost for tourism too. People here are so used to open borders, they are afraid for hours of waiting for the border, so they rather drive 1600km to Barcelona, than 800km to Praha.

So....does this mean that I don't have to show my ID-card when I'm going to Finland, for example??? :) ...This is great! I knew that it will happen some day but not so soon. I thought of something like in the middle of 2008.

Yes. Taking the ferry between Tallinn and Helsinki will be like crossing between two states (such as taking a ferry across Lake Michigan between Manitowoc, WI and Ludington, MI) here in the USA.

The Euro will make that crossing even easier, too.

Mike

^Yeah, but Estonia won't get EURO before 2012.

Yaay, we'll be fully integrated just in time for the Presidency! :happy:

Anyways, this has been known for a couple of months now, but good thing the word is spreading, means it's happening for sure..

By the way, Slovenia already installed the SIS on our systems so we are tehnically and formally ready to join Schengen. Yaaaaay!

I wish that they could do something like that here in North America. I'm still amazed that many of the countries in the Schengen zone have fought truly VICIOUS wars against each other more than once within the past 100 years, while the USA and Mexico have been at peace for 100 years or so and the USA and Canada haven't fired a shot in anger at each other since the end of the War of 1812 - and yet the checkpoints in North America are getting harder and harder to cross on a nearly daily basis.


Absolutely...makes me all the more jealous when I hear about Schengen. :(

That's great news :)

Absolutely...makes me all the more jealous when I hear about Schengen. :(

Yeah, but you have to cross only one border to acces a large portion of Northern America.

For Europeans, if they wanna go to Hungary or Croatia, they have to cross like 4 borders within 1000km/600 miles.

^^Well, Croatia will still remain a problem, but at least loads of other countries won't..

Schengen map

http://www.susy07.uni-karlsruhe.de/graphics/SchengenKarte.gif

How'bout Switzerland?


.

Not in this turn. Switzerland is considering to join Schengen, but they won't join now. Above map is wrong.

This one is better. Dark blue already in Schengen, middle blue joining Schengen, light blue going to Schengen in some years.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/SchengenAgreement_map.png

Hopefully the UK and Ireland will join one day but I don't think it would make much difference to us, you would still have to stop at the border to get onto a ferry/train or you will drive into the sea.

Our only land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland is already completely open anyway.

Hopefully the UK and Ireland will join one day but I don't think it would make much difference to us, you would still have to stop at the border to get onto a ferry/train or you will drive into the sea.

Our only land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland is already completely open anyway.
Aren't the UK/Ireland's inspections mainly to keep 'invasive' plant/animal/disease species off of the islands?

Mike

Hopefully the UK and Ireland will join one day but I don't think it would make much difference to us, you would still have to stop at the border to get onto a ferry/train or you will drive into the sea.
The difference will be over all about 'commercial' limitation: Schengen will make 'em fall down

Not in this turn. Switzerland is considering to join Schengen, but they won't join now. Above map is wrong.

This one is better. Dark blue already in Schengen, middle blue joining Schengen, light blue going to Schengen in some years.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/SchengenAgreement_map.png
Not exactly so. All the blue-coloured countries are already signatoires of the Schengen Agreement. Dark blue means they have already implemented it. Then those who are implementing it in december. Light-blue countries are members implementing it later (Switzerland aims to do so in November 2008, Romania and Bulgaria in 2011 and Cyprus is uncertain).
Yellow countries (Liechtenstein and Vatican City) have expressed interest in joining. And green (Monaco) means not official membership, but de facto.

Every country joining the EU in the future is joining Schengen at the same time (Bulgaria and Romania became members of both institutions on 1 January 2007)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_agreement

Yeah, but you have to cross only one border to acces a large portion of Northern America.


Yeah, but it's slowly closing by the minute.

Europe and North America are moving in opposite directions.

How'bout Switzerland?


.

Most times i passed the Swiss border, they just wave you through, usually there isn't even a passport check or something.

If somebody would say this to me in 1988 - I would not believe. Then going to Moon seemed a lot simpler than going to Sweden.

Can tell some stories, f.e. in our school (I ended in 1988) one guy was excellent in German language, he won competition and was recognised as the best in Latvia in his age. As a present he got a permit to go and visit Eastern Germany. Everybody envyed him very much. But... the visit to Eastern Germany coincided with exams in Academy of Arts where he wanted to study. And in these times - if you did not enter the highschool after completion of school, you were drawn in Soviet Army with high chances to die in Afghanistan or just from beating of fellow "comrades".

Without much thinking he decided to go to Eastern Germany - he missed his highschool and had to spend 2 years in humiliating conditions in Soviet Army for this. But he was happy about his decision then.

Such luxury as visit to Western Germany was beyond the wildest dreams.

Not in this turn. Switzerland is considering to join Schengen, but they won't join now. Above map is wrong.

This one is better. Dark blue already in Schengen, middle blue joining Schengen, light blue going to Schengen in some years.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/SchengenAgreement_map.png


looking at the map and living in Croatia... damn... this is so isolating... last 10 years we could go to Slovenia or Hungary just with identification card, now we need to show passport... really frustrating...:ohno:

Aren't the UK/Ireland's inspections mainly to keep 'invasive' plant/animal/disease species off of the islands?

Mike

And invasive people, according to some ;)

Ireland didn't join Schengen basically because that would mean they'd have to quit the Common Travel Area which would mean they'd have to show their IDs to go to Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

looking at the map and living in Croatia... damn... this is so isolating... last 10 years we could go to Slovenia or Hungary just with identification card, now we need to show passport... really frustrating...:ohno:

It's look like that Croatia is very near EU integration :)

It's look like that Croatia is very near EU integration :)

Most certainly deserves to be within the structure, but won't join until 2010 or better I guess.

Most certainly deserves to be within the structure, but won't join until 2010 or better I guess.

well if we talk about schengen it's going to happen when and important IF we enter EU... polls say that 50% of citizens are against joining, we're just sceptical about all that...hehe.. we're learning from a history of 900 years under other states :D

but geographicaly looking, our roads are top class, highways are constructing everyday, tourism boost is one of the largest in europe i'll say, even though we could enter EU, we could also stay something like Switzerland :D but with sea :P

we could also stay something like Switzerland :D but with sea :P

Come on mate, face it, you won't afford to stay outside, this is first of all within your interest to become a part of UE, even Switzerland will join Schengen in a couple of years not to mention that they might be a part of EU sooner or later.

^Why would Switzerland want to become a part of EU? Switzerland is better off without it.

Switzerland wouldn't give up their centuries-old political neutrality and sovereignty tradition so easily, which would automatically happen if they join the EU.

cyprus will join schengen when our 2 new airports are finished(end of 2009). the goverment does not want to waste money to upgrade security checking in the current airports.
our sea ports are almost 100% ready.
the other problem with implementing schengen in cyprus is that we will have to increase control at the green line dividing the island,which our goverment does not want to do it as it will increase the feeling of 2 states on the island .
cyprus is having talks with brussels trying to find a solution to this problem

looking at the map and living in Croatia... damn... this is so isolating... last 10 years we could go to Slovenia or Hungary just with identification card, now we need to show passport... really frustrating...:ohno:

Sure, it's very frustrating. :| What would you say if you need not just passport but visa also, like rest of Western Balkanas. :ohno:

Sure, it's very frustrating. :| What would you say if you need not just passport but visa also, like rest of Western Balkanas. :ohno:

You guys still need visas to enter EU??????

^^
Yes, unfortunately. :ohno:

I've just got Schengen visa for my trip to Portugal in next week. To get the visa I had to provide tons of documents. It costed me lot of time, nerves and money. Just to have opportunity to go there and spend my hard earned money.

The difference will be over all about 'commercial' limitation: Schengen will make 'em fall down

Would Schengen really make that much of a difference to commercial barriers? There is a single European market regardless of Schengen, I don't think that a requirement to show a passport would really block much trade.

Maybe if some countries were previously very strict with controls and large queues formed at the borders this would be a problem but here at least the customs controls are usually very quick, the customs officers just wave most people through without stopping them.

^^ You forget the hours of waiting time for trucks (commercial traffic) at the borders. Now the time is reduced since Poland belongs to EU, but a few years ago, you easily could wait one day at the border if you were a truck driver.

^^ You forget the hours of waiting time for trucks (commercial traffic) at the borders. Now the time is reduced since Poland belongs to EU, but a few years ago, you easily could wait one day at the border if you were a truck driver.

Just literally yesterday, it was on Polish news channel (TVN24) that there was some major server outage on Ukrainian border which caused a huge queue of trucks as a result. The estimated queue time was roughly 12 hours.

If somebody would say this to me in 1988 - I would not believe. Then going to Moon seemed a lot simpler than going to Sweden.

Can tell some stories, f.e. in our school (I ended in 1988) one guy was excellent in German language, he won competition and was recognised as the best in Latvia in his age. As a present he got a permit to go and visit Eastern Germany. Everybody envyed him very much. But... the visit to Eastern Germany coincided with exams in Academy of Arts where he wanted to study. And in these times - if you did not enter the highschool after completion of school, you were drawn in Soviet Army with high chances to die in Afghanistan or just from beating of fellow "comrades".

Without much thinking he decided to go to Eastern Germany - he missed his highschool and had to spend 2 years in humiliating conditions in Soviet Army for this. But he was happy about his decision then.

Such luxury as visit to Western Germany was beyond the wildest dreams.
Glad to see that Eastern Europe is a part of the open, global economy now. Your children will see the world as boundless, and even space too.

We(Bulgaria) are looking forward to join Schengen in 2-3 years and adopt the Euro together with Estonia,Latvia and Lithuania:banana:

I don't think you guys will adopt the Euro very soon. There are strict regulations for that.

I don't think you guys will adopt the Euro very soon. There are strict regulations for that.
Bulgaria is not so far from Euro and Shengen...
There are "only" little troubles with corruption to solve but Bulgaria made lot of efforts during the 3 last years.

Bulgaria is not so far from Euro and Shengen...
There are "only" little troubles with corruption to solve but Bulgaria made lot of efforts during the 3 last years.
And inflation. Nobody can join the Eurozone with an inflation over 10%.

Their expected date to join in 2010 but I think 2012 is more realistic.

during the 3 last years.

Bulgaria joined this year,if you're talking about that...

And inflation. Nobody can join the Eurozone with an inflation over 10%.

Their expected date to join in 2010 but I think 2012 is more realistic.
Inflation has to be under 4% so I don't think Euro will come to Bulgaria for 2012. For Estonia it was planned to join the Euro zone in 2007, but at the moment anything before 2013 will be great.

Inflation isn't necessary bad, because in Eastern European countries, prices increase, but also the income. But a low inflation is a good sign for a decent economy.

Beat this - Slovakia 2006: Core inflation 2.7%, GDP growth 8.3%.:cheers:

Source: http://ekonomika.etrend.sk/14495/slovensko/slovensko-v-ekonomickych-cislach

However, ECB will certainly find something to keep us out of Eurozone.:ohno:

Beat this - Slovakia 2006: Core inflation 2.7%, GDP growth 8.3%.
That's good. And you are already in ERM II. Now compare to Slovenia after almost one year of euro: cca 5% growth, but cca 5% inflation (actually prices went much more nuts, but statistics don't show that)

That's good. And you are already in ERM II. Now compare to Slovenia after almost one year of euro: cca 5% growth, but cca 5% inflation (actually prices went much more nuts, but statistics don't show that)

I think the same or even worse could expect Slovakia after possible joining of Eurozone.

I hope te new E.U. members increase their economie in a few years and join the Euro. And if they create a strong national economy, the 100.000 east-Europeans in Holland can go back to work in their own countries again. The open borders causes a lot of problems with migrants from the new EU-members. That's why the majority of Dutch voters, voted 'no' against Europe.
Not every migrants causes problems, but most of the Dutch are afraid to lose their jobs. So in my opinion they must close the borders again.

^^ That's what they tell you on TV. They take jobs Dutch people think themselves they are too good for it.

And did you really think those Poles with a low income would live in an upscale neighborhood? Ofcourse not. This is all something we could have known.

Well, i think, with the increase of economy and income in Poland, i think they will return to Poland soon, because they are being exploited here, with wages under the official minimum income. I think they are better off in Poland within a few years.

I hope te new E.U. members increase their economie in a few years and join the Euro. And if they create a strong national economy, the 100.000 east-Europeans in Holland can go back to work in their own countries again. The open borders causes a lot of problems with migrants from the new EU-members. That's why the majority of Dutch voters, voted 'no' against Europe.
Not every migrants causes problems, but most of the Dutch are afraid to lose their jobs. So in my opinion they must close the borders again.
if there were no immigrants and cheap labor from east, Holland wouldn´t be that successful and rich. So praise them every day!

if there were no immigrants and cheap labor from east, Holland wouldn´t be that successful and rich. So praise them every day!

Great reasoning :cheers:

if there were no immigrants and cheap labor from east, Holland wouldn´t be that successful and rich. So praise them every day!
Sounds like Eastern European labor is to Western Europe as Mexican labor is to the USA.

Only difference is, your labor isn't illegally in your nations(but the wages they're getting are below the minimum wages mandated by law)

^^ Only a few people employed by unscrupulous employers get less than the legal minimum, most East Europeans here in the UK at least get at the national minimum wage or more. The fact that they are legal makes it more likely that they will complain to the authorities if they are being mistreated.

^^ Only a few people employed by unscrupulous employers get less than the legal minimum, most East Europeans here in the UK at least get at the national minimum wage or more. The fact that they are legal makes it more likely that they will complain to the authorities if they are being mistreated.
i don´t think so coz they are affraid to do that. And authorities will surely protect the dutchs over some foreigners, meaning they will surely stay blind and deaf.

Inflation has to be under 4% so I don't think Euro will come to Bulgaria for 2012. For Estonia it was planned to join the Euro zone in 2007, but at the moment anything before 2013 will be great.

At the moment our inflation is 4.6% and if you check the timetable in Wikipedia you will see that we have filled every criteria except one thing which i can't remember right now!Also we are researching our EURO coin and soon it will be announced!The date of adopting the EURO is 2009 along with Estonia,Latvia and Lithuania i think

At the moment our inflation is 4.6% and if you check the timetable in Wikipedia you will see that we have filled every criteria except one thing which i can't remember right now!Where have you seen that data? Bulgaria's inflation in October was 10.6% (link (http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/PGP_PRD_CAT_PREREL/PGE_CAT_PREREL_YEAR_2007/PGE_CAT_PREREL_YEAR_2007_MONTH_11/2-15112007-EN-AP.PDF)). The other statement is right. You have a low debt and deficit so it won't be a problem to join the Eurozone. You just need to keep your inflation below 4%, something not easy in a booming economy.

One thing you have to take into account is that most W. European cars have to be checked at the Bulgarian border to make sure that the headlights don't put out too much light. The extreme shininess of the Struma's crashbarriers would otherwise cause innumerable accidents.

One thing you have to take into account is that most W. European cars have to be checked at the Bulgarian border to make sure that the headlights don't put out too much light. The extreme shininess of the Struma's crashbarriers would otherwise cause innumerable accidents.

:lol:

i don´t think so coz they are affraid to do that. And authorities will surely protect the dutchs over some foreigners, meaning they will surely stay blind and deaf.

If thats done systematically and they get once to the wrong one, that will end up at the European court of Justice due to discrimination.

Just a question of time.

Sounds like Eastern European labor is to Western Europe as Mexican labor is to the USA.

Only difference is, your labor isn't illegally in your nations(but the wages they're getting are below the minimum wages mandated by law)

Not at all the same thing.

Hm, am I having a deja vu?

If thats done systematically and they get once to the wrong one, that will end up at the European court of Justice due to discrimination.

Just a question of time.

Just like the austrian motorway police,that uses the excuse "opposing the enforcement",when a hungarian doesnt speak german,and fines them to thousands of euros?

Just like the austrian motorway police,that uses the excuse "opposing the enforcement",when a hungarian doesnt speak german,and fines them to thousands of euros?

OMG, do they really do that??? :shocked:

Just like the austrian motorway police,that uses the excuse "opposing the enforcement",when a hungarian doesnt speak german,and fines them to thousands of euros?

That's Austrians. For many of them is everybody from Ostblock at least mass murderer.:ohno:

OMG, do they really do that??? :shocked:

Not the first case,that I've read,although I've myself was never fined...neither home,nor abroad. Though they only use it when there is a basis for the inspection(like speeding),but they use this excuse to raise the fine. At least,that what I've read...
http://index.hu/cikkepek/0711/bulvar/schwechat/2007_05_21_140euro.jpg

http://index.hu/cikkepek/0711/bulvar/schwechat/2007_06_12_hatalyvesztes01.jpg

http://index.hu/cikkepek/0711/bulvar/schwechat/2007_06_01_feljelentes01.jpg

http://index.hu/cikkepek/0711/bulvar/schwechat/2007_05_21_jogositvany.jpg
just some examples of the latest case.

Slovakia, Austria kick off Schengen expansion party

BERG-PETRZALKA CROSSING, Austria-Slovakia border (AFP) — Slovakia and Austria on Thursday launched ceremonies to extend the European Union's passport-free Schengen zone to nine mainly ex-East bloc countries seeking to shed their communist pasts.

Austrian Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer and Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico cut down the frontier barrier between their two countries at the Berg/Petrzalka crossing point to start three days of commemorations for the landmark change.

The addition of the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia to the Schengen Treaty zone will take the number of countries involved to 24 with a total population of 400 million.

The expansion from Friday will lift border controls between the former communist states of eastern Europe and their Western neighbours and bring down internal controls in a zone stretching from Spain to Estonia.

"We are standing here at the border between Bratislava and Vienna to take away the most important symbolic barrier," said Fico.

The Austrian and Slovak capitals are just 40 kilometres (25 miles) apart but Fico added: "From midnight tonight, you can travel 4,000 kilometres (2,500 miles) from Tallinn in Estonia to Lisbon in Portugal without any border controls."

"When people go to Bratislava in 20 to 30 years, they will ask where the border was here at all," said Austrian leader Gusenbauer.

Concerts, fireworks and even a disco at the Petrzalka-Berg crossing were planned to mark the tearing down of the last remnants of the Iron Curtain.

Britain and Ireland have not joined Schengen and new EU members Bulgaria and Romania are not yet allowed in.

more here (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jdoUVE1D8KSI_US8bpvneiYFPG5A)

Congratulations to all Eastern Europe forumers! :banana:

:dance:

Congratulations to all! I hope RO&BG join soon, we also don't need for corrupt and annoying customs officers anymore! :banana:

Next spring I'm going to Prague if all is well, instead of 3 borders there will be just one! :D

more here (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jdoUVE1D8KSI_US8bpvneiYFPG5A)

Congratulations to all Eastern Europe forumers! :banana:

Testing new border in Saturday.:cheers:

Fantastic :D

Britain wont join because of pig-headedness (sorry, but thats what it is ;) ) and it isnt really sensible for Ireland to join without Britain joining :(

Now I will not have to stand in queue on border with Germany in Olszyna or Jędrzychowice ;)

Testing new border in Saturday.:cheers:

gonna be interesting at Macelj/Obrežje ;)

Its just plain annoying that we dont join. Anyone know why we dont?

Also, I've got a friend who claims he's seen people travel to switzerland showign Id cards only from the UK. Is he talking crap?

At the moment at least we can travel to ireland passport free if we want.

^^Do you in the UK have ID cards? At web of Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs it's written that you can pass our border only with ID card

UK isn't part of Schegen? funny, cause I never had to show my passport when crossing the Channel from England to France.

Or is this different?

Also, I've got a friend who claims he's seen people travel to switzerland showign Id cards only from the UK. Is he talking crap?



No, it is also possible with Dutch ID cards if i'm correct.

Britain wont join because of pig-headedness (sorry, but thats what it is ;) ) and it isnt really sensible for Ireland to join without Britain joining :(

Indeed, I often think the decision makers think there's some sort of unspeakable evil waiting at the other side of Europe just waiting for a clear run to our country.

^^Do you in the UK have ID cards? At web of Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs it's written that you can pass our border only with ID card

No, we don't.

Hamilton: I did, but on a ferry from France to Ireland no.

At the moment at least we can travel to ireland passport free if we want.

Only really on ferries, if you go through an airport whilst you technically dont need a passport you'd be daft not to take one cos of the hassle you'd get.

I don't think that Schengen would make a huge practical difference to the UK, you can't just drive onto the continent because there is a large stretch of water in the way, to get on a ferry or train, you have to check in and show tickets anyway so it's no extra hassle if you show a passport at the same time.

Our only land border is with the Irish Republic and that is already open a la Schengen anyway.

It's not as if there are huge queues and long delays at the ports anyway, usually you don't get stopped.

It would mean that we dont have to piss about with passport control on our international trains, and would increase the likelyhood of being able to get direct trains from other british destinations.

I flew to ireland on only my driving license and had absolutely no hassle at all.

But yeh, in the main it doesnt really make much difference. I have noticed they are much stricter now though at our passport control where they used to wave past anyone holding what looked like a british passport without opening it!

And also i believe we are party signed up to Schengen in terms of security sharing.

This is much more of a difference for these eastern european countries who has years of restricted movement and to have free borders with the rest of europe must be a great day and i'm pleased for you all!

^^Do you in the UK have ID cards? At web of Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs it's written that you can pass our border only with ID card

In the Netherlands you officially can even be fined for not showing ID/passport WITHIN the borders. :nuts:

In the Netherlands you officially can even be fined for not showing ID/passport WITHIN the borders. :nuts:

That is the case in many countries.

Ok, I didn't know that.

I remember when I entered the UK through Stansted Airport back in August there was a 45-min queue at the passport control, for EU citizens.. If not anything else at least that would be eliminated if the UK joined Schengen.

^^Do you in the UK have ID cards? At web of Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs it's written that you can pass our border only with ID card

The passport only serves as an ID in this case. Any official ID will do.

Britain doesn't join Schengen because they want to control (third-country) immigration, and probably a bit of good old stubbornness. Ireland would have to leave the Common Travel Area with Britain (a "mini-Schengen") to join Schengen, which of course would be very impractical. Britain takes part in the SIS data sharing part of Schengen, so they get the "bad" parts but not the good ones :|

Fantastic :D

Britain wont join because of pig-headedness (sorry, but thats what it is ;) ) and it isnt really sensible for Ireland to join without Britain joining :(
That's not so different: it's imposible to go to UK without using a plane, a boat, Eurostar or the Shuttle*. In all cases, you have to show your ID.
* Of course, you can choose to swim across the channel or to use your own boat or windsurf...but how many people do that each year ?

Just like the austrian motorway police,that uses the excuse "opposing the enforcement",when a hungarian doesnt speak german,and fines them to thousands of euros?

The first time I hear about that.
Do you have any source?

That's Austrians. For many of them is everybody from Ostblock at least mass murderer.:ohno:

You should not be so generalizing towards Austria as our damn mass tabloid, the Kronenzeitung, is towards the new EU member states and its citizens. There are many who hate that paper for the ugly xenophoby it spreads day in and out.

I hate to see how our government currently acts towards our neighbor countries like the Czech republic or Hungary. It makes me feel ashamed in fact to see how they act.

You should not be so generalizing towards Austria as our damn mass tabloid, the Kronenzeitung, is towards the new EU member states and its citizens. There are many who hate that paper for the ugly xenophoby it spreads day in and out.

I hate to see how our government currently acts towards our neighbor countries like the Czech republic or Hungary. It makes me feel ashamed in fact to see how they act.

Well, I've written: "for many of them." I know not everybody thinks it. For example yesterday I've seen on the Slovak news television TA3 mayor of Wolfsthal who even has Slovak wife ans is speaking very well Slovak and he said it's necessary to remove borders also form people's mind. However, I don't think that deploying Austrian army near borders or forbidding to pass border crossing Moravský Svätý Ján/Hohenau at night is way how to do it.

http://myjany.sk/img/P1140456.JPG

The attitude from Dutch media towards eastern Europe is also not that good, especially to Poles, as you read the papers, they are only drunk, creating a mess in neighborhoods and living with 15 people in one home or a van. It's really a shame, the people who criticize the most, have never actually been in those countries.

The attitude from Dutch media towards eastern Europe is also not that good, especially to Poles, as you read the papers, they are only drunk, creating a mess in neighborhoods and living with 15 people in one home or a van. It's really a shame, the people who criticize the most, have never actually been in those countries.

No offence to anyone but Holland would be a shithold now, if it weren't the emigrants from the rest of the world. I think that Dutch media should consider it, but they seem to be very forgetful of the facts.

Well, I've written: "for many of them." I know not everybody thinks it. For example yesterday I've seen on the Slovak news television TA3 mayor of Wolfsthal who even has Slovak wife ans is speaking very well Slovak and he said it's necessary to remove borders also form people's mind.

I forgot if it was Wolfsthal, but a neighboring Austrian village to Bratislava wanted to make a large step forward in improving public transport to Bratislava now. The mayor could not expect that the Austrian post busses would not only refuse to serve that line (that was no problem they had found already someone else who would do so), but also that they forbid anyone else to serve it as they have the exclusive right of doing... what assholes... I think their is a case pending at the court because of that. I still hope that the position of the post busses is unholdable.

I don't think that deploying Austrian army near borders

This step is largely criticized in Austria as well. Simply because its a farce and probably an unconstitutional farce as well. But if I can make you feel better, their presence their is meaningless anyway, every action except calling the police committed by them would be illegal. If that not helps perhaps it helps when I tell you that the Bavarians did also rise quite overreacted border region controls when we joined Schengen in 1998. They soon came to the conclusion that its not justified.

It seems our politicians are so afraid from the Krone and her xenophobe opinion dictate over Austria that they seem to think its worth to enrage the neighbors for something that is completely senseless.

or forbidding to pass border crossing Moravský Svätý Ján/Hohenau at night is way how to do it.

http://myjany.sk/img/P1140456.JPG

Isn't that because of what the Hungarians wanted?
Maybe they even have a point, as its a nature protection area this is going through.

The first time I hear about that.
Do you have any source?

I know only 1 case that made it to the internet. But in that case,a lawyer said its not the first. I dont know,and I dont really care. As much as I can tell from this case,they driver was speeding,so the police had legal basis to fine him(if this would happen at home,with a local,I'd even dare to say it is a good lesson for him).
BTW,on my way today coming home from eastern-Hungary,5 romanian SUVs drove over the limit,1 romanian Opel with a trailer(!!!),and a slovakian Skoda,not counting the local bullets. I dont know where is our police...:ohno:

I know only 1 case that made it to the internet. But in that case,a lawyer said its not the first. I dont know,and I dont really care. As much as I can tell from this case,they driver was speeding,so the police had legal basis to fine him(if this would happen at home,with a local,I'd even dare to say it is a good lesson for him).
BTW,on my way today coming home from eastern-Hungary,5 romanian SUVs drove over the limit,1 romanian Opel with a trailer(!!!),and a slovakian Skoda,not counting the local bullets. I dont know where is our police...:ohno:

You do know everybody speeds right?

I know only 1 case that made it to the internet. But in that case,a lawyer said its not the first. I dont know,and I dont really care. As much as I can tell from this case,they driver was speeding,so the police had legal basis to fine him(if this would happen at home,with a local,I'd even dare to say it is a good lesson for him).
BTW,on my way today coming home from eastern-Hungary,5 romanian SUVs drove over the limit,1 romanian Opel with a trailer(!!!),and a slovakian Skoda,not counting the local bullets. I dont know where is our police...:ohno:

Well if they were too fast, then they have to be ready to pay the fine when being caught. Nothing wrong with that.

As I dont know anything about those cases, if they were forced to pay more than the original fine it might be because he was so clever and thought he might get away with refusing to pay.

If its one of those things I can't see something wrong. I strongly doubt someone has to pay anything if he does not speak German. If eg a Hungarian speeder thinks he can play stupid and refuse to pay the fine than thats something different. (Even if he doesn't speak a word German or English, its possible to make him realize that he has to pay a certain fine now)

You do know everybody speeds right?

I dont. Thats at least one.

Well if they were too fast, then they have to be ready to pay the fine when being caught. Nothing wrong with that.

As I dont know anything about those cases, if they were forced to pay more than the original fine it might be because he was so clever and thought he might get away with refusing to pay.

If its one of those things I can't see something wrong. I strongly doubt someone has to pay anything if he does not speak German. If eg a Hungarian speeder thinks he can play stupid and refuse to pay the fine than thats something different. (Even if he doesn't speak a word German or English, its possible to make him realize that he has to pay a certain fine now)

I dont know if he did try to evade the fine or not. It happened,thats what I know.
BTW,I've found the documentation of the case...on the previous page:nuts:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=16775064&postcount=64

I forgot if it was Wolfsthal, but a neighboring Austrian village to Bratislava wanted to make a large step forward in improving public transport to Bratislava now. The mayor could not expect that the Austrian post busses would not only refuse to serve that line (that was no problem they had found already someone else who would do so), but also that they forbid anyone else to serve it as they have the exclusive right of doing... what assholes... I think their is a case pending at the court because of that. I still hope that the position of the post busses is unholdable.

Transport company of Bratislava wants to serve Wolfsthal and Hainburg, but some Austrian company refuses it because it has exlusive rights there. However, there is already bus connection of those little towns with Bratislava operated by company Slovak Lines.

This step is largely criticized in Austria as well. Simply because its a farce and probably an unconstitutional farce as well. But if I can make you feel better, their presence their is meaningless anyway, every action except calling the police committed by them would be illegal. If that not helps perhaps it helps when I tell you that the Bavarians did also rise quite overreacted border region controls when we joined Schengen in 1998. They soon came to the conclusion that its not justified.

It seems our politicians are so afraid from the Krone and her xenophobe opinion dictate over Austria that they seem to think its worth to enrage the neighbors for something that is completely senseless.

I think it's populism from Austrian governemnt. I know those soldiers can do nothing. But, as some Austrians can appreciate it, some people in new Schengen countries can consider it as an offence.

Isn't that because of what the Hungarians wanted?
Maybe they even have a point, as its a nature protection area this is going through.

Moravský Svätý Ján/Hohenau is very far from Hungary. It's small border crossing between Austria and Slovakia close to the Czech border. Here is map: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=48.601864,16.934674&spn=0.077987,0.159645&z=13&om=1&msid=103736049826817828962.000441fa9e994a505d37e Maybe it's due to protection fo nature, but why it was placed there on the day when Schengen was extended? The traffic there is very low, at night almost no and without trucks so I can see no point there. Both banks of river Morava are protected area. Niderosterreich offcials wanted Slovak officials to do the same, but they refused to do so.

Some interesting numbers from the new outer borders:
in the last 60 hours,border guards caught:
20 trespassers,out of which 19 tried to get into the Schengen zone,and 1 out:nuts:
1 people smuggler
20 fake documents(romanian and bulgarian IDs and fake EU visas)
37 people who are banned from the Schengen zone
1 person missing
11 wanted criminals
many stolen cars and licence plates too.

There are bad news too. 20 trucks can get out in an hour to Ukraine,and 500 are waiting.

I recommend to watch this video form Schnegen border between Slovakia and Ukraine: http://www.sme.sk/video/?id=2351

^^ The only bad thing we've had is that one people who was forbidden to entry Estonia still managed to do it, but that's it.

Hmmm somehow it kinda feels like to me that the iron curtain still exist, only now it forms the outer borders of Schengen.

Though i am glad with the current expansion of Schengen, it makes trade and national markets in eastern europe much more accessible, something that will work out for everybody's welfare in the future, though we (= western Europe) are now struggling with a lot of work immigrants from especially Poland, but that's just a temporary phase i think.

Overtime, when Poland economy will reach the same welfare level as in western Europe, this work immigration will end. We went through the same in late 80's when Spain and Portugal joined the EU. This is just a matter of time and patience.

I hope they will have that patience in Eastern Europe too, sometimes you read about people expecting to have the same welfare as in Western Europe within a few years. That might not be true, it takes time, we (=western/northern Europe) worked for decades to reach the welfare level we have now.

The Schengen border poses a problem for many second-hand car owners as well.. You may find out the car you legally bought was actually stolen, it's happened to many Czechs and Slovaks which tried to cross the Slovenian-Croatian border after we started implementing the system back in August.. And if your car is stolen, you aren't getting it back..

Some interesting numbers from the new outer borders:
in the last 60 hours,border guards caught:
20 trespassers,out of which 19 tried to get into the Schengen zone,and 1 out:nuts:
1 people smuggler
20 fake documents(romanian and bulgarian IDs and fake EU visas)
37 people who are banned from the Schengen zone
1 person missing
11 wanted criminals
many stolen cars and licence plates too.

There are bad news too. 20 trucks can get out in an hour to Ukraine,and 500 are waiting.
That's kind of scary actually, and worries me a bit given that Bulgaria and Romania will be in Schengen within a few years. A lot of people thought that they weren't even ready for the EU quite yet in 2007 and should have joined in 2008. Hopefully they'll be 1000% ready for Schengen, though, before they are let in, because it's quite important for many countries.

That's kind of scary actually, and worries me a bit given that Bulgaria and Romania will be in Schengen within a few years. A lot of people thought that they weren't even ready for the EU quite yet in 2007 and should have joined in 2008. Hopefully they'll be 1000% ready for Schengen, though, before they are let in, because it's quite important for many countries.

Outer borders are Ukraine,Serbia and Croatia. Well,Romania too,but they are let through,because they are EU members...

I dont. Thats at least one.



I dont know if he did try to evade the fine or not. It happened,thats what I know.
BTW,I've found the documentation of the case...on the previous page:nuts:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=16775064&postcount=64

Reads weird. To be honest, I can't really make sense out of it, if someone would have more about those cases it would be interesting to read. I mean they write that the recepte mentioned only 140€ but the police men acknowledget that they fined 1100€. One of the former paper mentions 960€ Sicherheitsrücklage or so. No idea what this is or meant to be.

But to be honest I dont have much experience with speeder fines, never got one yet.

Transport company of Bratislava wants to serve Wolfsthal and Hainburg, but some Austrian company refuses it because it has exlusive rights there. However, there is already bus connection of those little towns with Bratislava operated by company Slovak Lines.

Yes, but the other service would be considerably better and more integrated. It would be a great step forward in regards to PT service quality.
As I have said, there is a court case pending as far as I know. I hope that the Postbus has no chance if it wants to use its exclusive right of service in order to prevent any better service.



I think it's populism from Austrian governemnt. I know those soldiers can do nothing. But, as some Austrians can appreciate it, some people in new Schengen countries can consider it as an offence.


Of course they can. But the question is if they are then cleverer than those who appreciate it.


Moravský Svätý Ján/Hohenau is very far from Hungary. It's small border crossing between Austria and Slovakia close to the Czech border. Here is map: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=48.601864,16.934674&spn=0.077987,0.159645&z=13&om=1&msid=103736049826817828962.000441fa9e994a505d37e Maybe it's due to protection fo nature, but why it was placed there on the day when Schengen was extended? The traffic there is very low, at night almost no and without trucks so I can see no point there. Both banks of river Morava are protected area. Niderosterreich offcials wanted Slovak officials to do the same, but they refused to do so.

Oh.
Well I can't comment on this specific case as I have not the slightest information about it.

Sounds a bit like the case with Hungary just the other way round. But I can err.

That's kind of scary actually, and worries me a bit given that Bulgaria and Romania will be in Schengen within a few years. A lot of people thought that they weren't even ready for the EU quite yet in 2007 and should have joined in 2008. Hopefully they'll be 1000% ready for Schengen, though, before they are let in, because it's quite important for many countries.

I agree, in my opinion, there should be some same level of welfare, corruption, economy and income between Schengen countries. I don't think those 2 countries are there yet. I also had my doubts with Lithuania and Latvia, but i understand there would be some impractical situations then.

And today, i read this story about Romanian parents from the poor countryside leave their children to work in Italy and Spain, and i think this kind of stuff shouldn't happen in the EU or schengen. I understand the situation in these countries and their need for economic growth, but when your workforce leaves the country, how can you accomplish economic growth? I understand the motives for those people who want to work in Western Europe, but i also understand the resistance to all this from western Europe towards these countries.

To be frank, i think Romania and Bulgaria entered too soon, sure i would adjudge them economic profits from entering the EU, but things have to work both ways.

I think the EU should wait for further eastern europe expansion (except Croatia), until the now eastern European EU countries have a higher level of welfare

Some interesting numbers from the new outer borders:
in the last 60 hours,border guards caught:
20 trespassers,out of which 19 tried to get into the Schengen zone,and 1 out:nuts:
.

:lol:

Was he a looked after criminal or just an idiot?

The Schengen border poses a problem for many second-hand car owners as well.. You may find out the car you legally bought was actually stolen, it's happened to many Czechs and Slovaks which tried to cross the Slovenian-Croatian border after we started implementing the system back in August.. And if your car is stolen, you aren't getting it back..

Is this a consequence out of being part of the SIS system?
Cool.

Just one question, where are those Czechs and Slovaks buying their cars? At least according to Austrian law they could hold themselves free of any financial damage if they could not expect that they buy a stolen car. In fact the trader would be the target of illegal dealer accusations then.

I would say, mind the the papers of the primary owner, if they are correct, its fine, if they are forged in a way that you can't find out that they are forged you are fine as well, because then the former owner has a problem.

The A1 in the Netherlands is one large flow of Polish, Russian, Belorussian and Ukranian cars with trailers with new cars towards the east.

:lol:

Was he a looked after criminal or just an idiot?

That wasnt in the article:)
An article on a site of a county,they wrote that at Röszke(motorway border with Serbia),there were 5 people caught who were banned from Schengen zone,2 tried to get in,3 tried to leave. Of the 5, 2 was reported from Germany,1-1 from Austria,CZ and Hungary.

Yes, but the other service would be considerably better and more integrated. It would be a great step forward in regards to PT service quality.
As I have said, there is a court case pending as far as I know. I hope that the Postbus has no chance if it wants to use its exclusive right of service in order to prevent any better service.

Such service would be good, beacuse those buses will drive regulary no mather if full or empty. Not like present buses which even don't stop there if there's no reservation. It's ridiculous, Wolfsthal is some 9 km form the center of Bratislava, but it's complicated to get there without car.

Of course they can. But the question is if they are then cleverer than those who appreciate it.

I don't think it's question of cleverness. It's just completely useless step.

Oh.
Well I can't comment on this specific case as I have not the slightest information about it.

Sounds a bit like the case with Hungary just the other way round. But I can err.

It's quite an issue here. It was also in the TV news yesterday and all Slovak dailys informed about it. They all consider it as an offence and discrimination. It can cause a lot of problems since many people travel there from or to work, there are cultural events on both side of river with attendance from both banks and it's wierd to end them before 22:00. Another problem is it's just 30 metres form the end of the one way bridge on one way road where is not possible to turn your car without violating the law. What they protect those 30 metres?

Such service would be good, beacuse those buses will drive regulary no mather if full or empty. Not like present buses which even don't stop there if there's no reservation. It's ridiculous, Wolfsthal is some 9 km form the center of Bratislava, but it's complicated to get there without car.

I knew it was bad, I had forgot already that it was this much of a joke...
That does not even deserve the name "public transport"


I don't think it's question of cleverness. It's just completely useless step.

Not for our politicians, but in terms of rational thinkingh. Yes.
I would only hope our neighbors are able to take it rationally and see that its nothing they have to care about as its just the regularely inner Austrian hilarious comedy theater called "politics".


It's quite an issue here. It was also in the TV news yesterday and all Slovak dailys informed about it. They all consider it as an offence and discrimination. It can cause a lot of problems since many people travel there from or to work, there are cultural events on both side of river with attendance from both banks and it's wierd to end them before 22:00. Another problem is it's just 30 metres form the end of the one way bridge on one way road where is not possible to turn your car without violating the law. What they protect those 30 metres?

Why don't we get those news here at all? We only can read in our Krone about how every one from the new member states is at least a car thief ... :ohno:

I knew it was bad, I had forgot already that it was this much of a joke...
That does not even deserve the name "public transport"

Yes, that public transport is like joke. From those villages is easier to get to Vienna than to Bratislava which is some 5 km from them.

Not for our politicians, but in terms of rational thinkingh. Yes.
I would only hope our neighbors are able to take it rationally and see that its nothing they have to care about as its just the regularely inner Austrian hilarious comedy theater called "politics".

I've said it, I consider it populistic step. It's sad, but it's true that you can acquire popularity by this.:ohno:

Why don't we get those news here at all? We only can read in our Krone about how every one from the new member states is at least a car thief ... :ohno:

Well, everybody should definitely stop reading tabloids.;) IMO people who read them should not have right to vote at elections.:D Old Greeks would call them idiotés. For me is disgusting enough even when I see some commercial on tabloids on the TV.

http://slutowo.com/skyscraper/23122007673.jpg
Originally Posted by maciek2000

From polish subforum. more here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=192637

Yes, that public transport is like joke. From those villages is easier to get to Vienna than to Bratislava which is some 5 km from them.
Why doesn't surprise me that?


I've said it, I consider it populistic step. It's sad, but it's true that you can acquire popularity by this.:ohno:

Thats exactly what its all about, being a populistic step. Its not sure however that people who read the Krone will be satisfied by it as they may realize its fake nature. They may prefer the idea of reestablishing the iron curtain again :ohno: At least thats what I get sometimes the impression of.

Why doesn't surprise me that?

It wouldn't be surprise before a couple of years, but now such things should be over.

It wouldn't be surprise before a couple of years, but now such things should be over.

Walls in the minds of the people survive a long time you must know...

Walls in the minds of the people survive a long time you must know...

I know, even 20 years is not enough.

I know, even 20 years is not enough.

In an Austrian forum I read an interesting comment.

With the fall of the iron curtain and the reemergance of a Central Europe we have reached the state that was so common until 89 years ago: The peoples in a common borderless central Europe being eager in building (mental) walls...

The time when a real iron curtain caused people to demand a fall of those borders was nearly too achronistic to be true...


Hopefully this comment remains to be only cynism and not a fitting picture of reality.

In an Austrian forum I read an interesting comment.

With the fall of the iron curtain and the reemergance of a Central Europe we have reached the state that was so common until 89 years ago: The peoples in a common borderless central Europe being eager in building (mental) walls...

The time when a real iron curtain caused people to demand a fall of those borders was nearly too achronistic to be true...


Hopefully this comment remains to be only cynism and not a fitting picture of reality.

In the Iron courtain times, there were not so big problems with illegal immigration and so on in Austria. People were used to the world ending behind the courtain. But, this "luxurious" world disapperad from day to day. Austrians were probably the nation which life was changed most by fall of socialism, after socialistic countries of course. And many of those changes vere rather negative and very quick. But, this transformation era is very close to the end. The transformation of people's minds will, however, last for longer time.

In the Iron courtain times, there were not so big problems with illegal immigration and so on in Austria. People were used to the world ending behind the courtain. But, this "luxurious" world disapperad from day to day. Austrians were probably the nation which life was changed most by fall of socialism, after socialistic countries of course. And many of those changes vere rather negative and very quick. But, this transformation era is very close to the end. The transformation of people's minds will, however, last for longer time.

I agree to you that Austria has been effected heavily. But I want to add something:
The consequences in the public opinion have been rather negative, while in hard numbers and also the opinion of enterpreneurs (not only the large but also many small ones) it has been very postive. In fact in economic terms the last 15 years were a little success story for Austria. Especially Vienna profitated a lot.

I can only hope that you are correct, that we will see in the years to come the transformation of people's minds. Hopefully I it will happen in my lifetime.

I agree to you that Austria has been effected heavily. But I want to add something:
The consequences in the public opinion have been rather negative, while in hard numbers and also the opinion of enterpreneurs (not only the large but also many small ones) it has been very postive. In fact in economic terms the last 15 years were a little success story for Austria. Especially Vienna profitated a lot.

I can only hope that you are correct, that we will see in the years to come the transformation of people's minds. Hopefully I it will happen in my lifetime.

Economically it was very positive. However, people are everywhere sensing rather nagative things. I hope as well their minds will change quickly. I think we must wait until the welfare and especially wages will be very similar in EU.

Economically it was very positive. However, people are everywhere sensing rather nagative things. I hope as well their minds will change quickly. I think we must wait until the welfare and especially wages will be very similar in EU.

Funnily it makes itself already to the news that in the meanwhile more Czech, Slovaks and Hungarians are going shopping to Austria than the other way round.

I am surprised to see that this has not collided with the prejudices Austrians still have.

PS:
Does anyone know what is a nicer place to visit. Cesky Krumlov, Brno or Plzen?

PS:
Does anyone know what is a nicer place to visit. Cesky Krumlov, Brno or Plzen?

Cesky krumlov is beautiful medieval town. I can recommend to you...But there's a mass of foreign tourists, especially Japanese and so on...so the best season could be winter, if you don't like crowds of tourists. Plzen is quite nice and there is the best beer i've had:cheers: But on the other hand, it's just a normal city with shiny city center. But if you like wine, I would recommend you Brno-it's capital of south moravia with many wineyards and cellars in the south of Brno and very nice country with canyons, caves and so on in the north.

Cesky krumlov is beautiful medieval town. I can recommend to you...But there's a mass of foreign tourists, especially Japanese and so on...so the best season could be winter, if you don't like crowds of tourists. Plzen is quite nice and there is the best beer i've had:cheers: But on the other hand, it's just a normal city with shiny city center. But if you like wine, I would recommend you Brno-it's capital of south moravia with many wineyards and cellars in the south of Brno and very nice country with canyons, caves and so on in the north.

Thats fine, Brno is the one of the three that is located closer than the other two. My former chemistry teacher was born in Brno as well.
I did not know about the wine though. I am surprised :)

Cesky Krumlov sounds a bit like Salzburg... well Salzburg is not medieval but for the rest.

Thats fine, Brno is the one of the three that is located closer than the other two. My former chemistry teacher was born in Brno as well.
I did not know about the wine though. I am surprised :)

I didin't hear about wine exactly in Brno, but Brno is capital of Southern Moravia where is plenty of very good vineyards so I can only recommend to visit some cellars in countryside.

I didin't hear about wine exactly in Brno, but Brno is capital of Southern Moravia where is plenty of very good vineyards so I can only recommend to visit some cellars in countryside.

I am more of a beer drinker though ;) But I imagine that there doesn't exist a place in the entire Czech Republic which would be bad for beer drinkers ;)

I only know the Starobrno brand so far. You get it in Austria as well in some restaurants.

I am more of a beer drinker though ;) But I imagine that there doesn't exist a place in the entire Czech Republic which would be bad for beer drinkers ;)

I only know the Starobrno brand so far. You get it in Austria as well in some restaurants.

You dont know Kozel???:ohno:

I am more of a beer drinker though ;) But I imagine that there doesn't exist a place in the entire Czech Republic which would be bad for beer drinkers ;)

I only know the Starobrno brand so far. You get it in Austria as well in some restaurants.

Well, you can buy beer in every village, in every pub, but I thing that's possible in every country.

You dont know Kozel???:ohno:

And what about Pilsner and Budweisser, probably the most famous Czech brands?

Well, you can buy beer in every village, in every pub, but I thing that's possible in every country.



And what about Pilsner and Budweisser, probably the most famous Czech brands?

Budwisser is not the American Budwiser to all you people out there.

It's actually Budweiser.

Budwisser is not the American Budwiser to all you people out there.

Did you used to be DFM our Portuguese friend? :)

all those name changes :lol:

It's actually Budweiser.

It is indeed, and I have a can in front of me as I write. :cheers:

Now, any pictures of the SI/HR border? I imagine it's pretty terrible. Especially in Portoroz... (Sorry I don't have that letter on my Germanocentric keyboard.)

It's actually Budweiser.

Oh sorry, in Czech republic it's Budějovický Budvar or shorter Budvar.;)

Oh sorry, in Czech republic it's Budějovický Budvar or shorter Budvar.;)

The brand label in Austria says "Budweiser-Budvar". Do they have a different brand label in the Czech Republic?

http://www.neilwiltshire.com/ebay/budvar.gif

You dont know Kozel???:ohno:

Kozel, doesnt come from Brno, does it?
But no, I did not know that brand. I am not extremely educated about Bohemian beers. But I like Budweiser-Budvar and Pilsener Urquell. Starobrno is not among my favorites but not bad either.

The brand label in Austria says "Budweiser-Budvar". Do they have a different brand label in the Czech Republic?

http://www.neilwiltshire.com/ebay/budvar.gif

As far as I know, in Czech republic is used brand Budějovický Budvar. But, to be honest, I've never seen its bottle in Czech republic, only glass.:lol:

http://www.budvar.cz/img/boxy/Znacka-Budvar/Znamka-Budvar/20.gif

Kozel, doesnt come from Brno, does it?
But no, I did not know that brand. I am not extremely educated about Bohemian beers. But I like Budweiser-Budvar and Pilsener Urquell. Starobrno is not among my favorites but not bad either.

Full name of Kozel is Velkopopovický Kozel, so it's from Velké Popovice what is some 20 km from Prague.

^^ In some select resturants and pubs you might get it. I know at least two. Is Staropramen from CZ or SK?

^^ In some select resturants and pubs you might get it. I know at least two. Is Staropramen from CZ or SK?

Google says its a beer from Prague, therefor I let you guess the country ;)

Hmmmmm, tough.

Hmmmmm, tough.

I grant you a telephone joker. You can ask this expert on geography ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juOQhTuzDQ0
(no, not the 5th grader boy, I mean of course the girl)

;)

Did you used to be DFM our Portuguese friend? :)

all those name changes :lol:

That's me :cheers:

Must be Europe then. But is Europe the capital of Prague? Or is it Bratislava?


Or even Portugl?

"Nah I think that in Japan they speak Urdu. In Mexico they speak Mexican and in... wait! I know what they speak in Prage! Afrikanns, of course! Why did'nt I think of that.

-----------------------

Anyway, like I said this is great news!

^^
Aren't you guys going a bit off topic???? :)

very off-topic but beer is good (unless driving) :)

What was it about again... ?

Oh, Schenge. A great thing indeed.
I am looking forward already when the new member states are becoming true and full members with getting also the fundamental basic right of free movement after the border controls fell already.

Check this:
An austrian car was stopped few kms inside Hungary after Hegyeshalom. There were guns,3rd reich documents,SS-rings and a memorial medal issued on Hitler's birthday in 1945 in the car. The guy told the police he had a house in the Rábaköz area in Hungary. There,police had found a shotgun and 683 other types of guns. He didnt have permission for them. Experts say they are all older than 50 years,so he is now suspected with illegal possession of guns and cultural materials. He is in custody currently.

I told dad not to keep that stuff in his car. :rant:

Check this:
An austrian car was stopped few kms inside Hungary after Hegyeshalom. There were guns,3rd reich documents,SS-rings and a memorial medal issued on Hitler's birthday in 1945 in the car. The guy told the police he had a house in the Rábaköz area in Hungary. There,police had found a shotgun and 683 other types of guns. He didnt have permission for them. Experts say they are all older than 50 years,so he is now suspected with illegal possession of guns and cultural materials. He is in custody currently.

Well, he can be lucky he has not been caught by the Austrian police. But if I think about it, it probably doesn't make a difference, as Austria will call for his extradition if Hungarian laws on this are not even harsher...

One can wonder,how long he has been doing this,if he managed to collect 683 guns in his house...

One can wonder,how long he has been doing this,if he managed to collect 683 guns in his house...

Ask Kampflamm ;)

One can wonder,how long he has been doing this,if he managed to collect 683 guns in his house...

Some people are collectiong stamps, some guns, some old nazi artefacts... People have various hobby.:D

Some people are collectiong stamps, some guns, some old nazi artefacts... People have various hobby.:D

Right. Some people are planting grass f.e. What a world! You mustn't do this, you mustn't do that...

One can wonder,how long he has been doing this,if he managed to collect 683 guns in his house...

Depends on how clever he was to hide his activity.

But whats the point anyway? Its not like Austria would be the sole country who has to endure right extreme assholes.

Depends on how clever he was to hide his activity.

But whats the point anyway? Its not like Austria would be the sole country who has to endure right extreme assholes.

Of course not! I've just posted this because I've found it funny:) you dont hear every day about a 58 year old grandpa' smuggling WWII weapons:)

Of course not! I've just posted this because I've found it funny:) you dont hear every day about a 58 year old grandpa' smuggling WWII weapons:)

Perhaps he wanted to conquer the east in a one man operation? A combination of seeing too many Goebbels movies and Rambo movies? :nuts:;)

Swiss to enter EU no borders zone on December 12
25 November 2008, 16:55 CET

(BRUSSELS) - Controls at the land borders between European Union nations and Switzerland will end on December 12, while controls at airports will stop on March 29, the EU's French presidency announced Tuesday.

The decision allowing Switzerland into Europe's Schengen passport-free zone will be formalised on Thursday at a meeting of EU interior ministers in Brussels, said a diplomat from France, which currently holds the bloc's rotating presidency.

Switzerland, which is not an EU member state, voted in a 2005 referendum to join the Schengen area.

It would become the 25th member of the zone, which also includes non-EU countries Iceland and Norway.

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1227626221.88


Welcome! :cheers:

Welcome to Schengen Switzerland. The border controls sucked as hell anyway ;)

Liechtenstein?

Liechtenstein?

Does not join. Not yet. That causes some problems indeed for Switzerlands relations to Liechtenstein.

Really, they're not joining yet? Howcome?

Liechtenstein will be an interesting issue, time to work out their differences with the Czechs and Slovaks? Another interesting issue will be the Eurairport on French soil but closer to Basel than to Mulhouse. Right now there is a road connecting from Switzerland directly to the Swiss part of the airport without passing any customs checks. Indeed, there is a customs check inside the airport between the Swiss and French part. I wonder if this will be changed somehow.

Will now there be control on the Swiss-Liechtenstein border? :sly:

There aren't even border crossings between those countries, if I recall correctly (it's been quite a while).

No, there are no border stations.

I really like the idea of the Schengen agreement. Europe has been a place that's interested me to visit (and perhaps live) for quite some time. I think that Africa could do with a similar agreement between its various countries, not that that's likely to happen in the foreseeable future.

Will now there be control on the Swiss-Liechtenstein border?
Seems pretty weird to me... Such a small country to be the only one within thousands of miles in every direction to demand a passport control? What's the point? Vatican city or Monaco passport controls would make just as much sense. :|

Another interesting issue will be the Eurairport on French soil but closer to Basel than to Mulhouse. Right now there is a road connecting from Switzerland directly to the Swiss part of the airport without passing any customs checks. Indeed, there is a customs check inside the airport between the Swiss and French part. I wonder if this will be changed somehow.
It will be a lot easier. ATM, there's a French and a Swiss part of the airport, IIRC. Obviously they can scrap that division now. I'll also be interested in Basel's three train stations. (SBB/DB/SNCF)[/quote]

That Switzerland is joining is good news. Only in 2002 they joined the UN, but I guess it's difficult for Switzerland to remain completely neutral in a world like this. This will mean that Austria and Germany have no control anymore at any of their borders :cheers:

With Switzerland now in Schengen, will we be seeing the Swiss A7 autobahn being extended to directly connect into the German A81, along with other highway connections?

:|

Mike

I think a prolongation of the A4 is more likely, the Swiss A7 would go straight through Konstanz.

Actually the A4 and A7 both reach the border, but the A4 is just 2×1. I don't even know why it goes north of Schaffhausen, when the link with the German motorway A81 goes east of it (road #15). Germany will never bring any motorway to the Swiss A4 north of Schaffhausen.

^^ No, but the German A96 reaches nearly to the Swiss border near Gottmadingen/Bietingen. The A96 connects to the north-south A81 Autobahn to Stuttgart.

That's A81 too. But you probably wanted to say A98, not A96. ;)

Yeah, I didn't look at a map while posting :)

Does anyone know why Liechtenstein is not joining now? The plan had been all along that they would join at the same time as Switzerland.

Uh oh
http://euobserver.com/9/27189

Under the agreement, Swiss authorities will drop passport checks at the land borders to Germany, France, Italy and Austria - but would have to enhance controls at the border with Liechtenstein, which is not part of the Schengen area.A lot of crime coming from Liechtenstein apparently. :nuts: Not to mention that it's completely landlocked - even doubly. :lol: And there's no airport there either. Maybe it's Liechtenstein that wants to control its border? :dunno: They didn't do it before though, their border with Austria was (is) controlled by the Swiss. :lol:

the thing between Austria <> Switzerland doens´t really change ...

i live here in Vorarlberg, i know it


NOW:

you get controlled cause of goods you carry with you, not as person yourself

so where´s the change

AND

you HAVE to carry your passport with you (of course) , so where´s the change ?


BTW: Liechtenstein (which is more interesting in my town) is not Schengen yet

ID is enough. The change is for those with "exotic" license plates (citizenships). They were (are) also controlled as persons.

Not only enhance, but introduce! Seems like an awful waste of money to me. Implement Schengen border controls for a just few months...

That Switzerland is joining is good news. Only in 2002 they joined the UN, but I guess it's difficult for Switzerland to remain completely neutral in a world like this. This will mean that Austria and Germany have no control anymore at any of their borders :cheers:

Also France and Italy! For Italy it was kind of funny because part of the metropolitan area of Milan (extended) lies in Switzerland actually (Chiasso and surroundings)

There's control on the border between France and Andorra, as well as UK (Chunnel), not to mention Brazil and Suriname. :D And San Marino controls its border with Italy every now and then. :D

It will not be easy to blame the Swiss if they vote against free movement of workers when the EU does not want to apply it itself.

It will not be easy to blame the Swiss if they vote against free movement of workers when the EU does not want to apply it itself.

What are you talking about?

The temporary limitations that are yet intact in a small number of memberstates? They are going to fall in a few years.

Yes, precisely, I'm talking about that. A free movement of people is one of the essential elements of European integration, so I think this temporary restriction is not ok.

The Netherlands also restricts Bulgarians and Romanians from working limitless in our country.

A free movement of people is one of the essential elements of European integration, so I think this temporary restriction is not ok.
The alternative for these countries (BG/RO) would have been to join at a later date - would have made much more sense anyway.

Why would Switzerland have to allow BG&RO workers already now, when not all EU members allow them yet?

Have Norway and Iceland got the same problem?

I don't know, someone who knows should explain us! :) But the EU justice commissioner, Jacques Barrot, said yesterday that Switzerland will have to leave Schengen in case they vote in the referendum against the freedom of movement of workers from RO and BG. So I really don't get it, why should they allow it, and not, say, Austria, Germany or the Netherlands?
But I'm really looking forward to CH entering the Schengen area! :)

I don't know, someone who knows should explain us! :) But the EU justice commissioner, Jacques Barrot, said yesterday that Switzerland will have to leave Schengen in case they vote in the referendum against the freedom of movement of workers from RO and BG. So I really don't get it, why should they allow it, and not, say, Austria, Germany or the Netherlands?
But I'm really looking forward to CH entering the Schengen area! :)

Germany Austria and as it seems Netherlands have temporary exemptions that will run out in a short time.

The EU will not accept new exemptions. Switzerland agreed before to a deal that it in exchange for being allowed to join Schengen it will create freedom of movement. If Switzerland is not ready to hold what it promised, it will face the consequences.

Shengen means that there are no border controls. This is not connected directly with whether they can take up employment in that country.

Shengen means that there are no border controls. This is not connected directly with whether they can take up employment in that country.

It is not directly connected, but it was part of the deal that Switzerland brokered with the EU. If Switzerland breaks that deal, you can't expect that the EU accepts to be fooled by them. If they break the deal, they can forget it, the entire one, ie also Schengen.

I think it's more us, Schengen countries (particularly Switzerland's neighbors), that want Switzerland in the Schengen area, rather than the other way around though.

PS: there's still gonna be control on the Swiss border, not of people, but of goods

Shengen means that there are no border controls. This is not connected directly with whether they can take up employment in that country.

Schengen = Free movement op people, goods and capital. Schengen is way more than just border checks.

Germany Austria and as it seems Netherlands have temporary exemptions that will run out in a short time.



3 years is not a short time. The public opinion is somewhat against the Poles, since we don't have proper housing for them (domestic rental housing is under high pressure), they live with a lot of people in one house/apartment, which sometimes gives problems. However, we need them, even with all the gastarbeiters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastarbeiter) our unemployment rates are still at record lows.

3 years is not a short time. The public opinion is somewhat against the Poles, since we don't have proper housing for them (domestic rental housing is under high pressure), they live with a lot of people in one house/apartment, which sometimes gives problems. However, we need them, even with all the gastarbeiters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastarbeiter) our unemployment rates are still at record lows.

Well, whatever but its done after 3 years. Thats good, because the new member are full members. The freedoms are integral part of membership and a limitation of it can only be accepted in the way of transitional periods. Those periods will end in 3 years at the latest. Most member states have ended them already way before, but also the last reluctant ones have to end it in 3 years.

Thats not a matter of discussion anymore, all states have voted in favor of admission of those countries. Thats all that has to be said in this regard.

Schengen = Free movement op people, goods and capital. Schengen is way more than just border checks.


No, there will still be controls of good on the swiss border. There are several different agreements one is Schengen, then there is Dublin, the free movement of people. All of those Switzerland will now be part of, but not of free movement of goods.

I think it's more us, Schengen countries (particularly Switzerland's neighbors), that want Switzerland in the Schengen area, rather than the other way around though.

PS: there's still gonna be control on the Swiss border, not of people, but of goods
[/quote]

Thats because they are not member of the single market for some weird reasons, but as they like.

I would not be sure that the EU wants Switzerland more inside of Schengen than the other way round. Fact is there is a deal and if Switzerland breaks it, that deal is rendered meaningless and Switzerland can forget Schengen again.

Noch immer LKW Staus an die Schweizer Grenze :D

I don't know, someone who knows should explain us! :) But the EU justice commissioner, Jacques Barrot, said yesterday that Switzerland will have to leave Schengen in case they vote in the referendum against the freedom of movement of workers from RO and BG. So I really don't get it, why should they allow it, and not, say, Austria, Germany or the Netherlands?
But I'm really looking forward to CH entering the Schengen area! :)
That would be so UN-Strumatic if they blocked BG and RO. Come on, you guys want to look at Eastern Europe the same way some view Mexico over here?

Not everyone over there is a Radi clone.(but if they are, then so be it)

In the words of radi, the Great Master, it would be another example for "the fucking whoresons of EU"! ;)

Yeah, I wonder how long we can keep this 'ban' for RO and BG workers. We've had most of the Poles now and there were some problems, but we can cope with that IMO.

Timon, everybody from BG and RO who wanted to work abroad already did it, so you shouldn't expect waves of workers if they drop the limitations. I remember the journalists on one of London's airports on the 2-3 of January 2007, waiting for waves of workers and ultimately all they got were Chinese tourists. :)

^^Our politicians unfortunately don't think so. We had lots of Poles coming here in a short lapse of time, and there were some problems with housing and the conditions that some of them were living in. But because they are seasonal workers, those problems don't stay long. I look at it this way: they come here, work hard for a low wage (but high for their standards), which is good for them and for us. They give the Dutch some cheap labor, which is good for our economy, and after a while, when they've earned some money, they go back to Poland and spend it over there, supporting their economy. Looks quite much like a win-win situation IMO. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

They are leaving now in the face of the recession anyway.

^^ No, you're absolutely right, but there are other people who are afraid of losing their jobs if someone comes in the country and work for less money which is understandable, but there's no such threat already - as I said, those who could do it, did it. :)

Timon, everybody from BG and RO who wanted to work abroad already did it, so you shouldn't expect waves of workers if they drop the limitations. I remember the journalists on one of London's airports on the 2-3 of January 2007, waiting for waves of workers and ultimately all they got were Chinese tourists. :)

u are right, all romanians that wanted to work abroad left romania some time ago, now we have 2-2.5 milion people working in spain and italy.already i think there are more coming back from these countries, as wages and need for work are continously increasing in romania, than the ones leaving romania in search for better jobs in other countries.

They are leaving now in the face of the recession anyway.

i think romania will absorb some of its people that are working now in west europe because we are not severely hit by crisis(government presume a 3 to 6% economical increase for 2009).already in spain there are 100000 romanians jobless, and many of them will for sure return home.

They are leaving now in the face of the recession anyway.
Just like Mexicans are over here. I will say, Poles and Mexicans are the hardest working mass immigrants to come to Western Europe and the USA, respectively.

Of course. There has been taken a very big effort according to equipments and so on. Hungary has 1000s of kms to deffend as a bastion to Schengen.:cheers:

Hungary has 1000s of kms to deffend as a bastion to Schengen.:cheers:

Thousands? :crazy: Exactly 1,041 km, so barely over one thousand. :D

Thousands? :crazy: Exactly 1,041 km, so barely over one thousand. :D
OKAY, then hundreds..... Now you sleep well at night..........:bash:

Thousands? :crazy: Exactly 1,041 km, so barely over one thousand. :D
Belive me, more then enough!!!!!!

Yeah. 1041 kms is a lot to defend. Luckily with Schengen they only have the border with Croatia, Serbia, Romania and Ukraine left to defend :ohno:

Also more than enough, I'd say.

Yeah. 1041 kms is a lot to defend. Luckily with Schengen they only have the border with Croatia, Serbia, Romania and Ukraine left to defend :ohno:

Also more than enough, I'd say.

"Defend"? Maybe Check...or monitor...but defend...

The outer EU border is quite heavily defended. But this counts especially for the Ukrainian, Russian and Belarussian borders of course. Hungary only borders to Ukraine. Croatia and Serbia might be less though....

The outer EU border is quite heavily defended. But this counts especially for the Ukrainian, Russian and Belarussian borders of course. Hungary only borders to Ukraine. Croatia and Serbia might be less though....

No,I can assure you. My gf's brother is an officer working on the ukrainen border...apart from the regular infrared-camera van and such,there are no armoured divisions stationed there...

Ok, then I'll believe you, but there was a newspaper about a year ago (when Schengen was extended) telling about a fortified Slovakian-Ukrainian border, so I based my thoughts on that article.

Ok, then I'll believe you, but there was a newspaper about a year ago (when Schengen was extended) telling about a fortified Slovakian-Ukrainian border, so I based my thoughts on that article.

Dont believe me. Believe what you see and read!

The outer EU border is quite heavily defended. But this counts especially for the Ukrainian, Russian and Belarussian borders of course. Hungary only borders to Ukraine. Croatia and Serbia might be less though....

It's not heavily defended, its heavily controlled.

Well, you defend your border against anyone crossing it illegally, right? Or am I wrong now?

Well, you defend your border against anyone crossing it illegally, right? Or am I wrong now?

The term"heavily defend" all alone is portraying it in a too militaristic way. When it is in reality just guarding the border with light equipment and surveillance tools not heavy machinery and soldiers.

But they're patrolling and defending, right? Ok, 'heavily' is probably a bit overdone, but they do more than just controlling!

But they're patrolling and defending, right? Ok, 'heavily' is probably a bit overdone, but they do more than just controlling!

What more do they do then controlling it? Patrolling is part of controlling a border. Its right though that its quite throughly controlled. Thats no wonder after all its the outer border of an economically highly developed entity with half a billion inhabitants. Thats quite an interesting incentive for for illegally crossing the border. Not just for illegal immigrants but for the organized crime as well. I would say the latter aspect is even more important.

The term"heavily defend" all alone is portraying it in a too militaristic way. When it is in reality just guarding the border with light equipment and surveillance tools not heavy machinery and soldiers.

Exactly. It's not "fortress Europe" as some like to say.

And part of defending it.

Look, I'm not an expert in this issue. When Schengen was established I was one year old, and I've never been to the outer EU border, but in Dutch we always speak of "een grens verdedigen", so "defending a border", when translated literally. So I may be just my mistake, but my experience is that this is also called "defending" in English.

But they're patrolling and defending, right? Ok, 'heavily' is probably a bit overdone, but they do more than just controlling!

The army and the borderguards are 2 different things usually. Our border guards became police officers after joining,because the borderguards, as an institution, seized to exist. The army doesnt patrol the border. They dont have heavy guns,only pistols.
Control is indeed a soft word for what they do outside of the checkpoints. I think monitor is the best word to describe their work.
http://www.pecstv.hu/kepek/hirek/c_29216.jpg

http://www.origo.hu/i/0708/20070803autovadas.jpg

And part of defending it.

Look, I'm not an expert in this issue. When Schengen was established I was one year old, and I've never been to the outer EU border, but in Dutch we always speak of "een grens verdedigen", so "defending a border", when translated literally. So I may be just my mistake, but my experience is that this is also called "defending" in English.

I am no English expert either. In German one says to control a border. I think defending is something for the army.

I am no English expert either. In German one says to control a border. I think defending is something for the army.Hey Slarti old chap! You seem to be everywhere on the internet...:lol:

^^ You found "my" second forum. Thats pretty much it then ;)

Just to make it clear once again, you "defend your border" in a war, but otherwise you "control" it. Both expressions exist, but they mean different things. :)
By the way this summer I was travelling between Croatia and Slovenia without even stop the car on the border post... Every time they were just waving me to go on. Just one time I had to stop on the SLO customs post. :)

^^ That's b/c you're a Bulgarian (EU citizen). If you had Kazakh license plates, you would be stopped for sure.

I´ve heard that there was an agreement between Slovenia/Hungary before this Schengen-affair like not using passports. Is it true???

^^ Croats may go to Slovenia, Hungary and Italy with (valid) IDs, but they receive some kind of a paper (pasteboard), which they must keep until leaving the countries. Not terribly handy, so I'd just take my passport with me (unless I didn't have one).

You don´t need passports in the scandinavien countries either.(you do not need to have it with you at all)....If you are danish,swedish,etc....citizen.:)

In fact you don´t even have an ID-card in DK unless you want one.

That's difficult. There should be rules for the entire EU, not just one or two EU-countries. But I guess that would be too difficult. Just like some EU citizens (western part) don't need special visa for the US, and other countries (some in the eastern part) do.

^^ Croats may go to Slovenia, Hungary and Italy with (valid) IDs, but they receive some kind of a paper (pasteboard), which they must keep until leaving the countries. Not terribly handy, so I'd just take my passport with me (unless I didn't have one).

Yeah, but if you are a frequent traveller and need to save space in the passport, it is useful. But it was better before 2007, without these papers.
Well, at least we can go to Bosnia with the ID card only :)

Is Switzerland already in Schengen?

Apparently the border with Liechtenstein won't be directly controlled, just with cameras 24/7:Einen Spezialfall stellt für eine Übergangszeit die Grenze zu Liechtenstein dar, weil das Fürstentum erst nach der Schweiz assoziiertes Schengen-Mitglied wird. Vereinbart worden sind eine 24-Stunden-Videoüberwachung an den befahrbaren Grenzübergängen, gemeinsame Sicherheitsanalysen des GWK und der Polizeikorps St. Gallens, Graubündens und Liechtensteins, mobile Kontrollen des GWK im Grenzraum und eine Aufwertung des Verbindungsbüros in Schaanwald (GWK, Polizeien Liechtensteins und Österreichs) zur Zentrale für die Koordinierung der sicherheits- und grenzpolizeilichen Massnahmen.I'm not sure what's with the Liechtenstein-Austrian border.

It's the 12th now, so it should be. The Dutch tv text service and a very good news site www.nu.nl haven't yet mentioned it though :dunno:

I can see W.Europe suffering from financial crisis. "Christmass gift" or "come spend here"

On the news here they're talking the 'barriers' being lifted.

I hope it stays this way and that it doesn't revert back next year...

I hope it stays this way and that it doesn't revert back next year...

Sure, why would it change?

If they vote no to allowing Romanians and Bulgarians free movement, the borders come back up. The EU won't let them be part of Schengen then.

Is Switzerland already in Schengen?Yes they are now.

But there are still border controls, because CH is not part of the single European market.

^^But only for trucks, right?

No.
Schengen means, that the customs officer aren't asking for your passport anymore, but they continue to ask, if you have dutiable goods with you.

In that case it doesn't really make sense to me anymore. The same way on the airport. Tickets are sold by name, so you have to show your id that the ticket belongs to you, even when you fly in the Schengen area.

^^ Yeah, but they won't go investigating, if you're some kind of a criminal at airports. It's the same on the Norwegian border.

Yes they are now.I meant at midnight. ;) And yes, they entered at midnight.