Hi all,

Might as well jump in the deep end:

Noticed a DA (A001872060) for a 45 storey office tower to be constructed over Broadway on the Mall.

GFA 58,274 sq m and 40 levels of A grade office space with floor plates from 1354 - 1637 sq m and 5 levels of plant, overruns etc. There's some renders on the BCC site but only in pdf format - if anyone could post some that'd be great!

^
Jeez, that's a serious find - welcome to the forum.

Anopther big one to add to the list, at just under the 200m mark.....192.3m (=201.3-9).

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2092/broadwaylh0.jpg

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/3088/broadway2qp3.jpg

Nice and phallic. :cheers:

Nice and 80's, it'll blend right in to much of the existing Brisbane skyline.

I think it looks terrific, great find.

I notice MLC/Hitachi lost its weather lights, do they know something we don't?

That centre block part of town really does need some height.

It would be good to see the Wintergarden Car Park replaced sometime soon too.

There is a proposal to build an office tower over DJ's as well I think somewhere.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5921/p6300022gr9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Who is the architect? Will definately add a bit of meat to the middle of the skyline.

cool

ML Design

I think I'd have to agree with the naysayers when it comes to glass phalluses (phalli?) - a bit of 80's magic indeed.

finally something to add some height to the gap in the centre of the skyline. i wonder how it will go being beside the mall and the possiblity of it blocking sunlight from KGS. i was always under the impression that there was a height limit around the mall. should be good though. im all for it

I also agree that it looks a bit 80's. Reminds me of Brisbane Central, just a smaller version.

Wow,
That is a serious tower! Looks like a real challenge to build. They are keeping the existing 7,775m2 of retail over the 4 lvls and building over the top of it and excavating 4 new levels of basement under the existing building. It will have 174 carparks. My Guess is the office NLA will be about 50,000m2,

ML Design also did 333 Ann St. The developer is an unknown (I think he is ex-Hassell) who has teamed up with the centre owner.

nice, i like!

Hahahahah I love Brisbane.. we need more than two hands to count all our new decent proposed/u.c towers. This really is a gem.

My god! this is fantastic!! Great find Rubber Duck! ;)
Amazing how Brisbane spits out proposals all the time.
Love the design... good for density!

wow. very impressed. Love the 80's look.

Can someone fix the title to add the height.

its pretty close to queen street mall... im suprised they're allowed buildings that high so close... i spose its to the northern end, so shadows may not be as much of an issue.

Actually they could be because they will overshadow the mall. Not a big deal I wouldn't think.

Reminds me of this Dallas tower...

http://www.pcfandp.com/a/p/8212/8212-2.jpg

I like!!

It's pretty similar to CP1 and CP2 though which is my only problem with it! But, I like the fact that it's in the centre of town!! Awesome!

It has an interesting facade. Would like to know more.

WTF? Must say I'm surprised they are even proposing something of this height on that site. I guess it's not like that part of town gets all that much sun anyway......

nice. ive changed title and add to emporis.200m above sea level.amazing
cool

Holy crapping crap!!! I love this thing!

What the hell, I can't believe this came out of nowhere. The weird thing is too, just on Monday I was walking past Broadway thinking that they should redevelop it with some sort of tower over the top. Freaky.

Anyway, awesome shit. My only worry is the potential future glut of office space now.

The more I look at it, it's kind of like a mutation between CP1, the Dallas Tower and Bank of China in HK.

A shorter Bank of China HK was the first thing I thought of as well when I saw the pics

i thought... a better cp1

CP4!!!! Love it!!

:lol: Yes, the CP3 Brisbane should be getting.

The psuedo-bracing look seems to be in ATM re the conceptuals for Northbank, Perth's BHP & a new short office tower announced for Sydney's York St...

Looks very bulky in the lower 1/2 so must be quite a large footprint...and more blue glass. A lot of newbies (in Brisbane) seem to be in either blue or green glass, @ least in their renders.

A shorter version of the fallen through Minuzzo Tower (400+m) is what it looks a little like to me!

I love this building. It has glass, angles and height!!!! So this is going down on the corner of Queen and Edward Streets?? Or is the wintergarden going??

It's not a corner site and the Wintergarden will reopen with existing facades minus the dome.

I love this building. It has glass, angles and height!!!! So this is going down on the corner of Queen and Edward Streets?? Or is the wintergarden going??

It should be going over the Broadway arcade building, which stretches from Queen St to Adelaide St, opposite the Regent cinema on Queen St. If you see the picture I posted on the 1st page, it is the building with what looks like a giant white plastic worm on the top of it.

I like the Arcade building. So this is going in between Queen St Mall and Adelaide St, just up from DJ's on the same side as DJ's, opposite the Regent Cinemas.

**Bites tongue**

I love this building - it looks fantastic!!!

However, I don't want to throw a spanner in the works but arn't there strict height limits near the mall. Also its position on the north side of the mall would create undesirable shadows over a public open space. Not that I care but someone in council might.

Will it integrate into the mall in terms of shopping? Is a major retail component proposed?

If not it should be as its in the retail heart.

J

whoah. that's biiiig bitch!!

What's not to like? It looks fantastic!! I think already this has become my new favourite project!!!!

Brissy Lad, what do you know???

I love this building - it looks fantastic!!!

However, I don't want to throw a spanner in the works but arn't there strict height limits near the mall. Also its position on the north side of the mall would create undesirable shadows over a public open space. Not that I care but someone in council might.

Will it integrate into the mall in terms of shopping? Is a major retail component proposed?

If not it should be as its in the retail heart.

J

It's to be built over the top of the already existing Broadway on the Mall Shopping arcade...so the retail element is already there.

What a complete surprise. Especially in this side of town, which is the source of some of my concern. Lovely facade with reflective look of broken up surfacing, and the shape is quite striking, more so because of it's location. I just hope that it doesn't cast a giant shadow on the mall, and if not, it gets built.

That section of the facade where it is cut away not too disimilair to Bank of China Tower in Hong Kong I presume is a crucial element of the design that addresses the shade issues, with the afternoon sun in from the North West able to cut around the building and onto the mall. I feel more confident now that this could get approved. I absolutely love this design, and will look quite stunning both from the mall, and from a distance viewing the cbd, as it will stand out there.

Am I the only one who thinks that replica 80's chunk isn't actually good thing?

You just might, as I for the life of me don't see anything 1980's about the design, particularly in the facade treatment. Then again, it does remind me of a scaled down Bank of China in many ways, and that was designed in the 80's. Either way, I don't think this design is poor, not by any stretch of the imagination. Compare this to Aurora, for example. I'd make the ascertion that Aurora has many elements in it's design, facade anyway, that make it look 80's. This looks altogether more modern and contemporary.

Bank of China was completed in 1990, and in my opinion, it looks "newer" than this proposal. I shouldn't be too surprised by Brisbane getting a poor man's IM Pei building though, we've already got our own Louvre pyramid on the way up at Caxton St.

Man oh man, such cynicism, and for what? Oh well can't please 'em all.

I wouldn't say cynicism, I just don't see the point in being excited about every single proposed building, particularly when they're generally fairly mediocre.

I respect your opinion, but I just showed half a dozen people at work, unbaised people, what their opinion was and they all said things like 'striking' or 'glassy and reflective'. Nothing about being outdated in design or mediocre. I'm sure some people won't like it though, that's natural.

This is a very confused building. Too many 'architectures' just chucked together. Hopefully this will go through a LOT of design development before construction. Its faceted angle feature is not elegant like Bank of China, bt is rather very chunky and blocky.

Im not a fan of this design.

I respect your opinion, but I just showed half a dozen people at work, unbaised people, what their opinion was and they all said things like 'striking' or 'glassy and reflective'. Nothing about being outdated in design or mediocre. I'm sure some people won't like it though, that's natural.

Different groups of people can have very different responses. I just forwarded the images to a number of architects I know (at different firms no less), and within minutes I got 5 replies that were all more or less along the lines of "stumpy Bank of China". I don't know if architects are "biased" or not, but if we all just sit around and accept everything that's put in front of us as wonderful and without fault, we're just going to keep getting the same old crap....e.g. something that looks like it's straight from 1990.

^^ Architects are notoriously critical of other architect's works. I know a number of architects and this is true of them. I recently spoke to an architect friend who thought Circle on Cavill was awful. Fair enough - his opinion, but boy oh boy, he'd surely not have much company on that view.

I think you'll find Brisbane-based architects tend to be fairly critical of more or less anything that goes on down on the Gold Coast, but generally the Brisbane architecture scene itself is fairly quiet when it comes to criticising other architects work (openly/on the record at least). Northbank was probably the first major case in a while where a number of prolific architects have actually spoken out about another architect/developers work.

There's a sense of responsibility to the profession to keep criticisms to oneself, but I think this can actually be quite counter-productive. There is very little architectural discourse in Brisbane in which to constructively criticise and analyse building and development (without being notoriously critical), and I think Brisbane is suffering as a result.

Just reading the DA, the section cut out of the tower is to minimise shading to open areas.

Regarding the shading, the most amount of extra shading when compared to no extra development is 2% at the winter solsist at about 1pm and drastically decrease to 0% at about 2pm.

If development were built to the code assessable 90m (I think it is, otherwise it ios about 70m) I would imagine there to be essentially no extra shading with the 190m version.

I reckon they have just filled the building to the full extent of the building envelope and hence the glass brutalist look.

By the way, if anyone is concerned about the browny look, that would be the reflection of the towers opposite. I would like to see a good imagin of the tower on its own.


To clear the air, I'm still trying to work out if I like the tower or not. There are sections I like and there are sections I don't.

Of course Architects will rubbish each other's work - like artists dont do it - do they?

Its mostly jealousy in my view. Perhaps the persons that are quick to criticise a design, are usualy the persons who have not the ability to design what they are criticising.

^^ lol Redress, those who can, do, those who can't do, teach? Nice theory, but believe it or not, people can actually be constructively critical without being nasty or jealous. I may add that the architects who got back to me....all work in reputable architecture firms with a range of big projects under their belts :)

So, if I was to say that I am an architect and think it's great, what does that mean?? Frick all. p.s. I am not!

The top of it is very full on, but alas, there isn't a spire, blades, fins, domes, cages, or any other ornamental wank fest on top of this thing either which is good.

Generally speaking I think Brisbane is let down in the quality department for developments. Not just towers but everything, which is a real shame IMO. This though I think has potential...

So, if I was to say that I am an architect and think it's great, what does that mean?? Frick all. p.s. I am not!

Hehe my point was that the response you get RE: a building can vary greatly depending on who you ask. BrisbaneROCKS tried to counter my point with "But everyone I just showed likes it", so I countered his counter claim :)

i really wish every thread wouldnt be littered with catherines essays on absolutely nothing worth reading.
Really realllyyy

Well getting back to topic, I like the design a lot, and I think it will be a nice addition to the skyline.

its a good design for its location, will looks pretty big and imposing from the mall, which is good IMO. who cares if its not stunning. it's good and if it resembles BoC then that can only be a good thing. for its location tucked away in the middle i think its a really good design.

i really wish every thread wouldnt be littered with catherines essays on absolutely nothing worth reading.
Really realllyyy

save you attacks for people who dont contribute anything substantial malt.

this is a discussion forum about architecture and skyscrapers isnt it?

you'll be having a swipe at cul next for posting too many pictures??

rofl. idiot.

poo head.

I'm undecided about this one. I don't think the facades' work together very coherently and it does appear very chunky particularly near the base of the tower. I think they should just stick with one facade treatment for the entire tower (preferably the strips).

we could keep this silly banter going all day/night long couldn't we, or talk about the proposed building... which if I am not mistaken generally goes something like this.

1. new 150m tower proposed.
2. 20 forumers all jump online saying they love it.
3. 10 of which say it should have been 200m
4. two weeks later it's now 200m tall.
5. 30 forumers say they now love it even more than before.
etc.

as it turns out, the 150m tower was a smoke stack for a waste disposal plant which was going to be located in the middle of the rainforrest. Yep, it's 200m alright, but it doesn't make it beautiful! ;-)

I hear what you are saying on that point catherine. Sadly, I do actually think that this proposal has some merit in its design and is up with the times?! Curiously, if people say this is an 80's tower design, a) what is that exactly, and what governs a '00 tower????

i really wish every thread wouldnt be littered with catherines essays on absolutely nothing worth reading.
Really realllyyy

Haha, my longest post on this thread is 5 whole lines, is that too long for your attention span? ;)

RUM - I guess not resembling the poor (short) cousin of a particularly well known building by a particularly well known architect would be a start in not being 80's (or 1990), but as for 00's...that's probably as easy to define as post-deconstructivism :D

Hmmm. Yes. 80s definitely. Looks like mirror glass, are we allowed that any more? Massing is somehow not very interesting. Looks like a large lump. Does not accentuate verticality much - hence creating the lumpy look.

In my humble opinion.

^^ lol Redress, those who can, do, those who can't do, teach? Nice theory, but believe it or not, people can actually be constructively critical without being nasty or jealous. I may add that the architects who got back to me....all work in reputable architecture firms with a range of big projects under their belts :)


Far from it.

Im dont subscribe to a view that uni lectures - if you be referring to them - teach because they do not have ability. In fact I may even ponder that they have more ability. Teaching is but a pain in the arse side responsibility for academics, who generally speaking have far more interesting projects running simultaneously. Most great scientists were/are also teachers.

As for criticism - I believe it is neccessary for improvement, and really just to express honesty, but not to the point of being hasty in the dismissal of ideas.

We were told theold story at Arch school, the ones who got the A's ended up as lecturers, and the ones who got the B's ended up working for the ones who got the C's.

^^ That's definitely true about academics - nowadays there's only a small minority that don't or wouldn't excel in the commercial side of their field. Organisations like UniQuest bring in truckloads of money to universities by 'renting out' the skills of their academics.

For comparitive purposes:

Broadway Tower
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z212/s359999/broadway.jpg

Bank of China
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z212/s359999/boankofchina.jpg

CP1
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z212/s359999/cp1.jpg

I actually think it's quite ugly. It is too sleek and clean, and boring. The large slumpy shape and the dark blue facade I think will be far too overbearing on the mall. And in this position, what's the likelihood of approval, given that it will undoubtedly impact upon King George Square in the mornings?

We were told theold story at Arch school, the ones who got the A's ended up as lecturers, and the ones who got the B's ended up working for the ones who got the C's.

Hehe probably true, but there's a very big gap between academia and practice - both sides of the field are more than aware of this gap, and bridging it doesn't seem to be a priority. Just because you can keep lecturers happy in university...doesn't necessarily mean you can build anything decent in the "real world". For example, one of the directors of m3 was asked not to return to his architecture degree by QUT, and now runs one of the most successful emerging architecture firms in Brisbane.

I thought the point Redress was making was that "those who can't do" etc...but apparently the point was that those who are quick to criticise probably have no idea, or couldn't design anything of a similar calibre. Can't say I agree with that.

Anyhoo, apparently mentioning either side of the architecture field on a forum about buildings is frowned upon, so I'll leave it there.

We were told theold story at Arch school, the ones who got the A's ended up as lecturers, and the ones who got the B's ended up working for the ones who got the C's.

Very true - You generally only get the option of being an academic if you get a very high GPA. So it is illogical for anyone to suggest that teachers have inferior ability than professional who practise (those with inferior results in ther chosen profession) - makes sense to me.

haha well it's interesting to see how criticism and opinion has taken off on this building. I personally don't see anything particularly wrong with it, nor an obvious lack of effort on the architect's behalf. Opinion is one thing though, and fact is another. A few forumers on here try and disguise opinion as fact.

A few forumers on here try and disguise opinion as fact.

In your opinion anyway! :)

Looks like this will have as distinctive pro's/con's as Riparian Plaza!

i think this building is fantastic and i reckon it wont date like all the arty farty shit architects tack onto buildings these days. eg roma st parklands towers and the divine towers.

i think the seamless glass will look great and i definately like the mixing up of facade treatments. my only concern is the shadowing effect and if it shadows the mall then i probably would sway against supporting it.

^^ Both Pradella and Devine use in-house design teams, which more often than not consist of very few, if any, architects.

I think what screams 1980's to me is the wintergarden on the north west corner of the building. Without knowing the precise details of the design, it seems to me like the attempted "feature" angles here serve to create little more than a giant magnifying glass for the inhabitants.

Brisbane office towers need heating for all of 2 weeks a year, if that. I can't see any reason why we're still seeing office buildings without any decent level of natural ventilation or passive cooling.

^^ are you kidding. for a highrise building. how could you naturally ventilate a highrise office building.

Doesn't Riparian have some sort of natural ventilation??

^^ are you kidding. for a highrise building. how could you naturally ventilate a highrise office building.

In Brisbane, examples are in fairly short supply. Vision, whilst obviously not an office building, will have a dual skin whereby the inner skin includes operable windows. The Brisbane Magistrates Courts have a similar system, however I'm not sure if the inner layer is operable. The new Supreme Courts will also have a dual glass skin, most likely with some level of operability in the inner layer. These sorts of system are fairly commonplace throughout Europe, particularly Germany and Switzerland. It's superior in terms of insulation and climate control, which is why it's suitable in cold climates as well as climates like ours. Aurora Place in Sydney and 30 St Mary Axe in London are high profile examples of natural ventilation in skyscrapers.

It costs more to build initially, but the cost savings over the lifespan of a building are incredible - unfortunately, developers here don't care about the long term and legislation does nothing to sway them otherwise. I think this scheme demonstrates that quite clearly.

hahahahaha.

Windows are now a Natural Ventilation System!

That works in spring and autumn....

^^ Windows within a double skin system, in addition to a number of louvre systems which can control whether the double skin is used as a thermal chimney to extract warm air, or to actually retain warm air to aid in heating. These louvre systems usually double as access for cleaning between the glass skins. The double skin can also be used to circulate cool air when need be (which I would imagine would be more useful in our climate). The list of technicalities go on, but it's not just a case of "windows". The system developed for 30 St Mary Axe street is also notable, I suggest reading up on that if you think it's as simple as putting in a few windows.

I wasn't going to go into too much detail in case I was "littering" the forum with essays again, but there are a number of complex systems, generally automated, that are on the market, which is why schemes like this are so disappointing and should be relegated to the past.

^^ Both Pradella and Devine use in-house design teams, which more often than not consist of very few, if any, architects.

I think what screams 1980's to me is the wintergarden on the north west corner of the building. Without knowing the precise details of the design, it seems to me like the attempted "feature" angles here serve to create little more than a giant magnifying glass for the inhabitants.

Brisbane office towers need heating for all of 2 weeks a year, if that. I can't see any reason why we're still seeing office buildings without any decent level of natural ventilation or passive cooling.

Apart from the fact the design is aiming for a 5 star green rating, which I know isn't the be all and end all, it will be equal with Brisbane Square and Green Square when it comes to environmental effectiveness.

http://www.riparianplaza.com.au/img/pic_air_tubes.jpg

Air Tubes

Each and every office floor has 2 external "Air Tubes" mounted in the indented corners of the floor plate.

These tubes enter each level through the plenum between the suspended ceiling and the slab. They then connect to either existing or special purpose ductwork.

The design is unique to Brisbane and a necessary inclusion to service today's business needs.

Unlike traditional construction where additional air quantities are limited to pre-designed core provisions the "Air Tubes" service will not only service commercial kitchens and additional en-suite toilet facilities, but fresh air supply for 24 hr independent air conditioning systems is available at multiple points on each and every level.
Condenser Water Loop

An adjunct to the air tubes is the condenser water loop that services each and every office level. While the availability of fresh air is the primary concern for supplementary air conditioning facilities it is a prerequisite that adequate supplies of condenser water be available.

^^ Sounds very interesting, I'd really like to know how a building with absolutely no sunshading etc achieves a 5 star rating, but obviously the green star scheme is based upon more than the external treatment of the building. I'm still quite sceptical about a building with a wintergarden on the north western corner, but if it does manage to reach a 5 star rating as constructed (which is very different to "as designed"), I'm happy to eat my words.

I wasn't going to go into too much detail in case I was "littering" the forum with essays again, but there are a number of complex systems, generally automated, that are on the market, which is why schemes like this are so disappointing and should be relegated to the past.

don't worry about malt, he's just a very angry young man.. keep on posting what you feel like, some of us enjoy your insightfulness!

^^ Sounds very interesting, I'd really like to know how a building with absolutely no sunshading etc achieves a 5 star rating, but obviously the green star scheme is based upon more than the external treatment of the building.

Basically its a points system, just like getting a credit card, if you have the 1st primary and 1st secondary form of ID you're a shoe in, but you may need lots of minor forms of ID if you can't make the 1st desired items.

If a building has next to no shading then they may apply a combination of better glazing, tinting, blinds, daylighting systems etc etc.. You can get glass treatments that reject alot of heat, and not just from the sun but radiant heat from outside/inside etc. A proper treated window with no shading will reject more heat than a window that has no treatment and partially shaded for example. A non or partly shaded window you can take advantage of daylighting systems where you can control the artificial lighting inside the office/building via switching/dimming high output / low wattage fluro's in perimetre zones reducing energy loads etc.

We origninally designed into Riparian 2 perimetre zones, so we had switched lighting close to the core and dimmed lighting in the outter zones (although I've since noticed that these systems have been canned as tenants moved in).

Brisbane Sq. uses water from the river to pre cool from memory.

275 will have a massive water harvesting system (grey, rain and recycled).

Thats enough bable from me...

^^ The Green Star scheme is weighted to a certain extent too, so if the air tubes are the major technology driving the exterior of the building, I'm going to guess that there's a lot of interior technology and building management systems that will need to be integrated to get this building up to scratch. Then again, even proximity to public transport gets you a few points, so in truth, you can have a 5 star building that is pretty stock standard, just well sited. I personally think 5 star should be the minimum requirement for all new buildings, but I doubt many developers would agree with me on that.

Add to that the fact that "as designed" and "as constructed" are currently two different certification systems through the Green Star Scheme...so if you want to get your building certified as 5 Star etc before it's built...you can...but if you want to get it certified as 5 Star as constructed...you have to pay for the certification process again, and it's not cheap. What this means is that many buildings that achieve 5 Star (or however many stars) on paper, may not achieve that in reality, and more often than not, they'll be below...so there's little incentive to go through the second certification stage and pay the extra money if there's a risk of downgrading your buildings very marketable Green Star Rating. Catch 22.

Yes the "value adding" process, LOL.

don't worry about malt, he's just a very angry young man.. keep on posting what you feel like, some of us enjoy your insightfulness!

Probably true... hahaha

Article in Prime Site today if anyones interested (CM page 83)

Orfeo posted this of the retail podium on the skyscraperlife.com forums. Very sleek. :)

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2314/broadwaysv3.jpg

That looks really cool! Can't wait for this project to get started, it's one of my faves for Bris at the moment.

looks ok, though do these designers even consider brisbanes climate when they come up with things like this.

^^Tell me what is unclimatic about this in comparison to any other shopping centre in SEQ?

^^Tell me what is unclimatic about this in comparison to any other shopping centre in SEQ?

i was talking about the awnings

I am still yet to understand. Those awnings look as though they will provide sufficient shade and shelter compared to any other awning on the QSM.

All I want to know is...Why? Is this form related to anything contextually, climatically, or even vaguely symbolically, or is this just an attempt to emulate Eisenman from the 80's, just without the intellectual basis? Form for the sake of form dates incredibly fast, especially when it starts off looking 20 years old.

looks like something out of an Asian Cartoon, its should strobe to I reckon.

I am still yet to understand. Those awnings look as though they will provide sufficient shade and shelter compared to any other awning on the QSM.

you have obviously made up your mind on the topic so im not going to bother if all you are going to do is come back being a wanker.

^^I have yet to be given anything other than 'the awnings' to explain why it is not climatic. As I said, I am yet to understand what is unclimatic about the awnings. If I am actually given a reason that is correct I will be quite willing to accept it.

TOCC - I think that's a bit harsh - you might need to explain your point of view a little more in order for KJBrissy to be able to adequately put forward a rebuttal (if that's what he's going to do).

IMO, I think the facade looks nice, but the awning looks dated already. However, in the way of providing shade and shelter, it is better than what is there now, which is mostly useless when it rains.

just because something is better then what was there previously doesnt mean its a good thing.

The awnings are pretty high and dont seem to come out much, so basically it means they arent going to give much shade or protection from the rain.

haha oh god here we go again. If you hadn't of realized, no direct sunlight hits that side of the mall... Thus the red awning isn't required to be a vital sun shade. Besides, what the hell is wrong with what theey've deisgned there? To me it looks like a decent and refreshing design that will lift what is there now. Oh thats right, I guess because some people here didn't design it themselves all these 'flaws' appear in the design. hmmm consistent...

haha oh god here we go again. If you hadn't of realized, no direct sunlight hits that side of the mall... Thus the red awning isn't required to be a vital sun shade. Besides, what the hell is wrong with what theey've deisgned there? To me it looks like a decent and refreshing design that will lift what is there now. Oh thats right, I guess because some people here didn't design it themselves all these 'flaws' appear in the design. hmmm consistent...

That facade gets a fair chunk of early morning to midday sun, particularly in summer when the sun is the highest. There's also a fair clearing in front of Broadway at the moment too, so shading is an issue. But in my books, having worked in the city for the last few years I have to admit that nothing annoys me more than useless awnings when it does actually rain. Storms are usually brought in by south-western winds, so this facade in combination with the clearing in front (and to the south-west) of it mean that when the storms do hit, the high level section of this awning is going to do bugger all, other than perhaps provide a few more drip points.

So if you want to start from a fairly basic climatic design point of view, this design could be much better. As for aesthetics, I'm sticking to my guns on this one - late 80's quasi-Eisenman, with a little bit of manga/transformers thrown in for good measure. I'd love to hear the designers statement and find out if there's actually any intellectual rigour to the design, or if it's just a case of designing something 'that looks cool'. Generally, something that 'looks cool' doesn't stay 'cool' very long, which is particularly unfortunate when people spend valuable time, money and resources getting this kind of stuff built.

So you suggest awnings that shelter us from the rain? That's a fantastic idea! Why would we want an open sunlit mall when we can enclose it....

So you suggest awnings that shelter us from the rain? That's a fantastic idea! Why would we want an open sunlit mall when we can enclose it....

As someone who has walked through the mall to work every day for the past 5 years - it is very annoying when I get to broadway and get wet in the rain (because the current awning is completely useless - but note that the building next door is heritage listed and also contributes to this as it has no awning).

I think the new T&G awnings are a good example of a simple solution - they provide protection against the rain, and don't make you feel like the mall is being enclosed.

But Broadway has a large area inside that is able to protect you unlike any other shop (other than QP) on the mall.

But Broadway has a large area inside that is able to protect you unlike any other shop (other than QP) on the mall.

That doesn't help when you're walking through the mall though.

So you suggest awnings that shelter us from the rain? That's a fantastic idea! Why would we want an open sunlit mall when we can enclose it....

Awnings don't have to 'enclose' anything, although I have to say this is the most solid, 'enclosed' looking awning I've seen proposed in quite some time, I just happen to think it looks chunky and useless at the same time.

^^ It actually would help. You have to move from side to side when walking up the mall. Also, the heritage building next door means that if you are trying to be sheltered, you would already be on the very NW side of the mall or the very SE side of the mall anyway.

So you suggest awnings that shelter us from the rain? That's a fantastic idea! Why would we want an open sunlit mall when we can enclose it....

:bash:, you can easily design a awning that is practical yet still letting the open air and sunlight through.

The carparks in this proposal have been reduced to about 160. This should be the last hurdle before approval is given.

Wasn't this one of the towers that were mooted to be canned? I hope it goes ahead.

Yeah it was, but the AFR article had holes all through it. I wouldn't believe it unless you find other evidence.

I agree. The people behind the AFP often have their own agendas driving what they publish.

it wasn't so much an agenda as piss poor journalism - they called up developers and asked "is your project still going ahead?". Any answer other than an unequivocal "yes" (such as 'no comment') was assumed to be cancelled. They back this up by a single "industry expert" whom stated that he believed a series of projects would not go ahead. Not exactly a compelling argument.

IMO,
I beleive there are too many difficlut construction issues with the proposed design and delivery method. I give it a very poor chance of proceeding, even if market conditions hold up. I dont think any construction firm would be lining up for this project when there are many easier projects up for grabs.

Add to that the forecast of a downtrend in new office construction from around 2011, I doubt it will stack up as financially feasible.

Also, it is very big which magnifies the delivery, leasing and sales risk exponentially.

this tower would be so awsome if it were around 270+ metres

Yeah. I think the hieght is fine it just looks a bit outdated but will wait andd see still a good tower though.

To me, glass never goes out of style.
Bank of China stilll looks good to me.

IMO, given how much space is left in the brisbane cbd, i reckon there won't be many projects proceed that havn't already commenced... just off the top of my head these buildings still have substantial amounts of space uncommitted:

vision (100% vacant)
111 eagle (100% vacant)
trilogy (100%) vacant)
empire (100% vacant)
suncorp theatre site (100% vacant)
northbridge (70%) vacant
53 albert st (30% vacant)
am60 (30% vacant)

that's a fair lick of space.. and those are just the ones that are under construction!!

IMO, given how much space is left in the brisbane cbd, i reckon there won't be many projects proceed that havn't already commenced... just off the top of my head these buildings still have substantial amounts of space uncommitted:

vision (100% vacant)
111 eagle (100% vacant)
trilogy (100%) vacant)
empire (100% vacant)
suncorp theatre site (100% vacant)
northbridge (70%) vacant
53 albert st (30% vacant)
am60 (30% vacant)

that's a fair lick of space.. and those are just the ones that are under construction!!

Even though there is a lot of space vacant there are a LOT of companies who want to expand within Brisbane CBD and desperately need more office space. Many of these companies, even though suffering overcrowding, are waiting for a possible glut to occur before they secure a long term commitment to office space.

Brisbane currently has the worst overcrowding problems of any capital city - I think we average something like 1 person per 16m2 which isn't much room. The average is about 1 person per 19m2 although they say the optimum is about 1 per 22 or 23m2. For comparison I think Melbourne has something in the order of 1 person per 26m2 of office space.

(that was from data I read about a year ago)

J

Just wondering if anyone knows where this proposal has ended up?

It ended up getting lodged with Council.

Just wondering if anyone knows where this proposal has ended up?

Ooo, pick me pick me!
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/thumb/5/5a/Martin.jpg/250px-Martin.jpg

http://www.bradfitzpatrick.com/store/images/products/thumbs/hh028-cartoon-toilet-art.zip.jpg

^^ not another one!!!!!!!! this was was going be a great additional to the skyline

Development Application is still open. They will probably try to drag that out as long as possible and hope that A) it gets approved and B) the financial markets improve so that they can finance the project. They could still be 2 years from even sticking a shovel into the ground in anger. Many things could happen in that time, and one would imagine they will keep making money of the actual Broadway as it is atm and keep this up their sleeve.
Not sure what the expiry times are for a development application once approved, I remember something about 2 years but that could be wrong.

^^Actually it is 4 years. It is fairly easy to get extensions though if need be (Think the Macrossan)

wha?

Ah, yes - the Extension of the DA period on Macrossan. They waited until the last day. In the month leading up to the expiry of the DA the hastily undertook demo and put in some solider piles. They hadn't even started excavation on the day the original DA expired.
08/05/08 - There is an application in to extend the approval time due to delays in starting construction. his could take a while!
16/05/08 - What does it say about your business when you have been sitting on an approval for 4 years, and it is just about to expire, and only then do you lodge a request for extension ONLY ONE DAY prior to expiry !?

04/05/08
http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk247/sonic123488/IMG_1160.jpg

Any updates at all. This has been siting on BCC's desk for ages without a sounds.

Bad sign?

This project will not get built in my life time, period. Pity.

The last activity on this DA was in Apr-08 when the concurrence agencies provided their responses.

The applicant has made no further submissions since then, they have gone completely quite. It has been 12 months now.

Its Stuck in Limbo.

Well they have a year to respond to RFI's, so if they take longer than that the application is officially canned!

limbo= GFC

I know this one is at best in a deep slumber, but these were two nice renders which I think haven't been shown before:

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/8707/93634514.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8379/96392519.jpg

nice

Thanks Locke. This was one of my favourites of the pre-gfc proposals. I haven't seen these renders and these make it look even nicer. It looks taller in these renders too. As I said in the past, it looks like one of all my all-time fav buildings - Bank of China building. But nothing but luv for this proposal. Its the angles. Luv angles.

I hope there is a chance it still proceeds. Quality addition in an area that is in most need for filling the gap in the skyline.

Some more height in the central CBD would be great - There's a bit of a canyon starting to form by the tallies popping up around the river's edge... It would balance the skyline nicely from the north (and south)

Oh nice I hope it gets built :D

The large towers being built around Queen St is starting to worry me a little, casting too much shadow on the mall should really be avoided in my opinion. Luckily there's not many more sites where towers can be built due to either there being towers already there, or heritage listed building on site.

I have to say that I did really like the podium of this project. With the Wintergarden redevelopment, it leaves Broadway as having the tackiest Queen St shopfront (which is a shame as the heritage Adelaide St frontage is quite nice).

^ are you kidding me??? It is horrendous during summer. Humid + the sun. Might as well create some shade.

It is not surprising that Queensland leads the world for skin cancer with comments like that.

Very very nice building.

There's plenty of available shade in the Mall, between the building awnings, trees and semi-transparent shade structures (like the one at the intersection of Queen and Albert St). Creating shade is fine, but I'd prefer a decent amount of natural light flooding the mall outside of the hours of 11am-2pm!

without having any kind of computer simulator to work out accurately, it would appear this tower would only cause shade on the Edward St part of the mall in the afternoon, not overly concerning

I know this one is at best in a deep slumber, but these were two nice renders which I think haven't been shown before:

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/8707/93634514.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8379/96392519.jpg
Awe - that would have been sweet!

Absolutely stunning design, I would much prefer this over 111 i have to say.

Shade is good, so yeah this would have done wonders in summer. Dam shame. Looks like a very 'manhatteney' tower

how big are the tower's floor plates?? they look HUGE!

this (and regent) would have made the mall feel a lot more like a center of busniness rather than just the fantastic retail zone.

i don't mind the shade that much, good in summer not that concerning in winter.

It is not surprising that Queensland leads the world for skin cancer with comments like that.

we dont' really, people just like to say we do. everyone likes a winner.

Look at the Pitt Street Mall in Sydney. 420 George Street was recently completed which is just under 500 foot yet it's set back from the mall to allow sunlight to filter through. Same for 85 Castlereagh Street (Westfield Tower) which is now under construction. There is also the Tower Apartments.

Makes for a vibrant mall.

With his proposal, it's been setback from the mall towards Adelaide Street to maintain views and vistas down Queen Street.

Anybody heard anything on this gem? Still goin ahead eventually or scrapped?

^^ I think this one ended up floating in DA limbo, so in it's current form, I would say scrapped.

That said, I remember reading a month or two ago that Broadway had been placed on the market, so maybe whoever buys it are doing it with an eye on redeveloping the site? It could definitely use it, with the Wintergarden's revamp, Broadway is now the most dated centre left in the QSM. As long as they don't touch the facades in Adelaide St, I'll be happy!

^^ It would be interesting if they could reduce the amount of office space for a hotel. I think a 3rd hotel on the QSM would be pretty successful.

^^ I'm waiting to see if we end up with that hotel on Elizabeth St behind the facades next to the Myer Centre. I liked that one, and it was approved I believe...

^^ It would be interesting if they could reduce the amount of office space for a hotel. I think a 3rd hotel on the QSM would be pretty successful.

Finding a location for a Port Cochere on Adelaide St would be difficult.

I would relish the opportunity to demolish Broadway.

There's an article in today's Prime Site that says that ISPT (who own the Wintergarden) are purchasing this site for $60m or so.

^^ Oh wow! They're gaining a nice little slice of the Mall - Wintergarden, Regent, old HMV building (next to the Regent) and now Broadway.

In light of this, I definitely think that a makeover could be on the cards after the Wintergarden & Regent are complete.

I wonder if they'll go ahead with a tower on this site also???

^^ It's possible - they are putting one over the Regent/Wintergarden afterall...

I'm all for added density around queen street mall as increased density means more people that are going to be there nearly everyday of the week which means more customer base which means more shops :) Not to mention added vibrancy to what is already an extremely busy area for pedestrians :)
A lot of the mall is already in shade for large parts of the day so I can't really see the issue there, I really hope the people that bought it come out with a tower of similar/same design as this proposal. If wintergarden is anything to go by the hopeful redevelopment of one of QSM's uglier centres should be good.

^^Welcome to the forums DQ!

The shade issue was being discussed back in August last year! :lol: Shows how long this thread has been sitting around for. I just like the mall being predominantly low rise, with the taller buildings being around the perimeter. For me it helps make the mall feel really open and inviting, which I personally prefer over the canyons you find down south.

Both the Wintergarden and Broadway looked pretty dated and ugly before the Wintergarden's redevelopment, but seeing how the good the Wintergarden now looks/will look when completed, I'm looking forward to see what ISPT might propose for Broadway.

This just leaves the Myer Centre as the last major shopping complex needing a good reno!

Thanks Nathan! Haha well I guess the best things take time. Yeah I understand what you mean it's more about the feeling of being imposed on by skyscrapers rather than wandering through the heritage facades that are only a few stories high. I guess it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other! Myer centre and Broadway reno's would be fantastic in bring the last major sections of QSM up to date. Hopefully there is some news about Broadway in the next few months, although I'm not holding my breath.

^^ Yeah, neither am I. I'm not expecting any news of major works until the completion of the Wintergarden/Regent project. Although, I wouldn't discount something like a minor face lift - a splash of paint to freshen it up a bit - being done in the shorter term.

It'll be interesting to see if ISPT look at this approval for inspiration. Personally I agree with another poster who stated a hotel could be a great addition to the site.

^^

Hopefully they will. I am wondering if they will gutter the whole thing and start all over like Mid City in Sydney or simple build over it. Time will tell, interesting to speculate.

its a shame this hasnt gone ahead. i thought the tower was pretty cool even if it did copy style from cp1. i wonder if ispt have any plans for this site now. i am glad that this never happened though:


http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2314/broadwaysv3.jpg

that facade is a step up from the recently revealed wintergarden.

that facade is a step up from the recently revealed wintergarden.

:lol: so true

lol