MLB
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5c/ALE-TOR-Logo.png/100px-ALE-TOR-Logo.png
Toronto Blue Jays

2x Champion:
1992, 1993



Formerly known as SkyDome, the venue was renamed the Rogers Centre on February 2, 2005, having opened on June 3, 1989.

Over 2,000 events have been staged and more than 50 million people have visited Rogers Centre - famous the world over for its fully retractable roof. From 1996-1998, the facility also received the prestigious "Prime Site of the Year Award" from Facilities Magazine and recently won the Toronto Tourism Award for "Employer of the Year." For four consecutive years, the facility received the "Stadium of the Year Award" voted by Billboard, Amusement Business and Performance Magazine.

Rogers Centre is the home of the Toronto Blue Jays Baseball Club™, World Series Champions in 1992 and 1993, and the Toronto Argonauts Football Team™ who won the Grey Cup in 1991, 1996, 1997 and 2004. Rogers Centre facility's versatility allows it to accommodate a variety of events suited for an arena, a domed stadium and an open-air facility.

Roger Centre facility's capacity ranges from 5,000 to 60,000 for sports events, concerts, family shows, trade shows and conventions. In 1997, the facility hosted a record of 302 event days with announced attendance for events and tours of 4,500,000, making it one of the busiest venues in the world.

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i was there in june of 1989 was the third game since opening day against baltimore the attendance was 48,239 blue jays lost 5-4 but it was a great great day won't forget it

I was there 2 years ago, nice stadium. The attendance was really poor though, something like 20'000.

We need some kind of facade to the exterior of the Rogers Skydome. The facade has often been criticised for appearing 'cold' and imposing cause the exterior material is concrete.

actually all the large windows on the front (facing south) have pictures pasted on them of jays players.

the stadium looks quite nice if you ask me.

been there twice, once in 92, and once last year. don't remember it in 92, i was like 4 years old, but last year it was a saturday afternoon game against the yankees...sellout!

going again in September to a game.

I went to a Blue Jays game in 1991, and the place was pretty full...

if the blue jays suck, it gets around 20,000...if they are doing well or the yankees are in town, 40,000-50,000 it is.

Getting ready for the 95th Grey Cup game November 25th. It's the national championship of football in Canada. That's Canadian football or what many outside Canada call gridiron. It's our nation's biggest day in sport and the second oldest trophy in North American professional sport after the Stanley Cup in hockey. The Grey Cup was first contested in 1909. By comparison, its cousin the Superbowl, was first contested a full 58 years later in 1967.

Go Argonauts! Oldest team in North American professional sport.

Go Argonauts! Oldest team in North American professional sport.

Is that really so ??

Let's go Blue Jays!!m))

Word is that the Buffalo Bills want to start playing a few exhibition and regular-season games here.

Is that really so ??

The Argonauts were formed in 1873. Are they not the oldest pro team in North American sport? I know there are a few very old professional baseball teams in the USA, but the Argonauts pre-date them. The National League wasn't even founded till 1876. The American League was founded decades later. If I'm wrong, that's fine, but I don't think so.

The Argonauts definitely pre-date any other team in pro basketball or hockey. As far as football goes, football didn't even arrive in the USA till 1874. The Toronto Argonauts are often billed as the oldest, and the history books seem to back this up quite concretely.

Hope they make it to the Grey Cup this year. Go Blue!

The Argonauts were formed in 1873. Are they not the oldest pro team in North American sport? I know there are a few very old professional baseball teams in the USA, but the Argonauts pre-date them. The National League wasn't even founded till 1876. The American League was founded decades later. If I'm wrong, that's fine, but I don't think so.

The Argonauts definitely pre-date any other team in pro basketball or hockey. As far as football goes, football didn't even arrive in the USA till 1874. The Toronto Argonauts are often billed as the oldest, and the history books seem to back this up quite concretely.

Hope they make it to the Grey Cup this year. Go Blue!

Well the Cincinnati Red Stockings were founded as the first professional Baseball team in 1869. The same year football was invented if you believe wiki.

Hamilton Tigercats can go back to 11/03/1869.

So lets just say Toronto is ONE of the oldest.

Sorry but Saskatchewan is going to kick your ass!

Thanks for the info. The Cincinnati Red Stockings folded in 1870. A new team using that same name was formed in 1876. Cincinnati could make the argument that they were the first pro team along with the Hamilton Tigers, but that's about all.

The Toronto Argonauts are the oldest continually running team, but I guess the Hamilton Tiger-Cats could also legitimately lay claim to that. The Hamilton Tigers were formed in 1869 and merged with the Hamilton Wildcats to become the Hamilton Tiger-Cats. So, todays team in Hamilton is the same organization from 1869, in most respects.

Oldest? I'll compromise. The Toronto Argonauts are the oldest continually running team in North American pro sport. The Hamilton Tiger-Cats are the oldest team in North American pro sport.

I was there 2 years ago, nice stadium. The attendance was really poor though, something like 20'000.

it's getting better rest assured

Source : http://www.pbase.com/goldengaelsphotos/20040605_hamilton_at_toronto&page=all

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Source : http://www.pbase.com/whitbycanon/rogerscentre

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Ewwww! When did they bring in the law banning pretty cheerleaders?

How come the CFL doesn't seem to be a big draw? And what leagues did the Argos play in before the CFL came around??

How come the CFL doesn't seem to be a big draw? And what leagues did the Argos play in before the CFL came around??

The CFL is now on an up cycle. In the mid 90's the league was struggling with attendance and the horrible experiment of expansion into the United States. It's now in resurgence with rapidly improving TV ratings and higher attendance. These pictures look to be from about 8 years ago when the Argonauts were only drawing about 10 to 15 thousand. They're now drawing about 30 to 35 thousand. CFL is still nowhere near as popular in Toronto as it is elsewhere in Canada where there are fewer viewing options for pro sports. The CFL is massive in places like Montreal, Saskatchewan and Winnipeg.

One of the worst looking stadiums in the MLB. Only Tropican and Oakland can compete with it for the ugliest outfield.

Are there any plans for a new baseball stadium for the Blue Jays?

Won't disagree with you. I absolutely hate the Rogers Centre. Problem is that every level of government has an awful taste in their mouth from spending $600 million in the 80's (adjust that for inflation to see the real pain) for a building that was just sold to Ted Rogers for only $25 million a few years ago and failed to provide the economic benefits that were promised. Any new stadium would require political funding which would NEVER be approved. Despite the ugliness of the building it has all the bells and whistles (tons of boxes, restaurant, hotel) and the retractable roof allows it to be used for a lot of other purposes throughout the winter. Unfortunately I'd say it will be at least 15 to years minimum before a new facility can be discussed. The real shame is that Rogers Centre was built right at the end of the multipurpose stadium era and just before the sport specific era which has brought us all the great modern MLB stadiums we see today.

It was built right on the fringe of the new generation. It's still a very modern stadium but its but ugly

How come the CFL doesn't seem to be a big draw? And what leagues did the Argos play in before the CFL came around??

It's a big draw outside of Southern Ontario. Southern Ontario is a football no man's land. Elsewhere in the country, attendance is strong. Average attendance for Saskatchewan is 31,000. In Winnipeg it's 27,000. This might not sound like a lot, but when you consider how small these places are, the attendance is very good.

Saskatchewan play in the City of Regina, population 195,000. Winnipeg is bigger, but still only home to 695,000 people. It's the same story in every CFL city outside of Southern Ontario; they like football and support their teams. With the exception of Green Bay and Buffalo, NFL host cities usually have over 2,000,000 people in their metro area.

Before the CFL came into existence, the Toronto Argonauts played in the Ontario Rugby Football Union which was founded in 1883, 10 years after the founding of the Argonauts.

Ewwww! When did they bring in the law banning pretty cheerleaders?

First of all, those aren't real cheerleaders, they are female dancers of the 'pole dancer' variety, used to titillate straight men and lesbians. Real cheerleaders do pyramids, acrobatic stunts, and have male members. Women aren't strong enough. If they had some male cheerleaders, then maybe I'd care.

Real cheerleaders look like this:
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Ewwww! When did they bring in the law banning pretty cheerleaders?

Maybe get the girls from Naked News to do the cheers? Of course, they'll have to wear outfits to get past the censors. :D

Ewwww! When did they bring in the law banning pretty cheerleaders?

thats the best canada can do

UWO Mustangs placed first at the Division 1 NCAA Championships, so it seems they can do better than anything in the USA some years. Perhaps, you should research a little before shooting your mouth off. They're very talented athletes. If you appreciate gymnastics, you'll appreciate them. If you're looking for half naked pretty women, go to a strip club for straight men.

Maybe get the girls from Naked News to do the cheers? Of course, they'll have to wear outfits to get past the censors. :D

That doesn't belong in sports, it belongs in a strip club for straight men.

Anyway, the discussion went offtopic so I'll do my best to bring it back.

To me it is a decent facility. I wouldn't say great but not nearly as bad as some critics have opined. First, the stadium is very modern and looks "clean". Second, it is located downtown, about the best in terms of location for siting a major sporting facility in a major North American city. Even if they wanted it replaced, where would they go that's better than the location they have now?

The one bad thing is that they haven't found a way to put a permanent grass surface because it's a multipurpose facility that's used for more than sports. Still, it can't be said to be a true baseball facility when they have to use removable Fieldturf for the surface, the same situation as Minneapolis and Tampa Bay.

Just get rid of the terrarium carpet and it's 1000% better.

To me it is a decent facility. I wouldn't say great but not nearly as bad as some critics have opined. First, the stadium is very modern and looks "clean". Second, it is located downtown, about the best in terms of location for siting a major sporting facility in a major North American city. Even if they wanted it replaced, where would they go that's better than the location they have now?


It's a great place to watch baseball, but sucks for other sports. A few upgrades to the exterior, and some attempts to soften the coldness of the concrete would go a long way.

I like Skydome, but only for baseball.

The sightlines in the lower tier are terrible for football. Very shallow grade and the first few rows are unusable because they go straight to ground level meaning you can't see over the players on the sidelines. .

The sightlines in the lower tier are terrible for football. Very shallow grade and the first few rows are unusable because they go straight to ground level meaning you can't see over the players on the sidelines. .

From the pictures I've seen, they put a tarp over those seats for most football games (except for big-ticket games like the Grey Cup).

From the pictures I've seen, they put a tarp over those seats for most football games (except for big-ticket games like the Grey Cup).

I know. That's why I said they're "unusable"

I know. That's why I said they're "unusable"

Have they ever contemplated lowering the playing field? It would greatly improve sightlines for those in the front row.

Arizona State did so to Sun Devil Stadium, and while the view is far from perfect, it is vastly better than at many other stadiums.
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Don't know how it'd affect sightlines for baseball however.

The Jays owner owns the stadium and would never go for it. The only way it would happen is if he gets the NFL team he wants so badly and the NFL forces him to improve the sightlines. The Argos have considered moving to BMO Field which is where Toronto FC plays but they'd have to pay for an expansion and the owners don't have the money for that.

Here's a pic of BMO Field

http://www.stadiumbleachers.com/Images/Projects/Soccer/Toronto-MLS-Stadium/Toronto-BMO-Field-Soccer-Bleachers-1.jpg

The Jays owner owns the stadium and would never go for it. The only way it would happen is if he gets the NFL team he wants so badly and the NFL forces him to improve the sightlines. The Argos have considered moving to BMO Field which is where Toronto FC plays but they'd have to pay for an expansion and the owners don't have the money for that.

Here's a pic of BMO Field

http://www.stadiumbleachers.com/Images/Projects/Soccer/Toronto-MLS-Stadium/Toronto-BMO-Field-Soccer-Bleachers-1.jpg

I've heard a lot about the Argos' potential move to BMO, and I'm not very sure it's going to be worth the trouble--expanding that playing field to fit a 150-yard-long gridiron is gonna piss off a lot of F.C. fans.

What about renovating and expanding Lamport? Is there enough room?

There's been a lot of talk about moving to BMO although it all cooled down after the Argos polled their season ticket holders and they unanimously wanted to stay at Rogers Centre. May heat up again in a few years because MLSE is looking to expand BMO to 25 or 30 thousand. Toronto FC has a season ticket waiting list of 13,000 and growing so an expansion is a matter of "when" rather than "if". Although the refitting for the Argos and covering the field in football lines is sure to piss off MLSE and their fans of which I am one.

As for Lamport, that place is hemmed in by roads and buildings on all sides and is totally run down. They considered trying to move there a few years ago after seeing the success of the Montreal Alouettes moving to a smaller stadium

There's been a lot of talk about moving to BMO although it all cooled down after the Argos polled their season ticket holders and they unanimously wanted to stay at Rogers Centre. May heat up again in a few years because MLSE is looking to expand BMO to 25 or 30 thousand. Toronto FC has a season ticket waiting list of 13,000 and growing so an expansion is a matter of "when" rather than "if". Although the refitting for the Argos and covering the field in football lines is sure to piss off MLSE and their fans of which I am one.

As for Lamport, that place is hemmed in by roads and buildings on all sides and is totally run down. They considered trying to move there a few years ago after seeing the success of the Montreal Alouettes moving to a smaller stadium

How about the prospect of building a new stadium in roughly the same blueprint as BMO, but with a larger capacity? From what I've gathered, BMO wasn't a terribly expensive stadium. They could have their own digs for no more than $75M.

It would certainly be nice for them to get their own stadium but several factors are preventing them.

1) The two owners of the Argos are wealthy in mortal terms but just aren't playing in the same financial ballpark as MLSE and Ted Rogers. They're having a daunting enough task just considering the prospect of paying a measly 15 million to refit BMO. Even 75 million is out of reach for these guys.

2) The downtown area has been rapidly developed and there's not really much of any land left at all. The location would likely be much worse than than that of the Rogers Centre or BMO field.

3) The government is all out of generosity. Toronto FC only got a sweetheart deal on building BMO because of the FIFA U20 World Cup. The city still owns the stadium. Like I stated before, people in Toronto and the city itself are still extremely bitter about how much Rogers Centre cost to build. Then considering part of the reason it was built was to give the Argos an indoor escape from the frigid temperatures on the lakeshore, the mere thought of municipal help is a non-starter.

4) It's tough to justify building your own stadium for 8 games a year. Easy to say it could be used for other stuff as well but there's a ton of options in Toronto when it comes to that.

5) The threat of the NFL coming makes it a big risk. Ted Rogers is trying to line up a purchase of the Bills now that Ralph Wilson has said he's going to sell to the highest bidder when he dies rather than pass the team down to his family. CFL folks around here are very concerned about the detrimental effect it would have on the CFL because the Argos would struggle to stay alive.

I bet they are kicking themselves for not making BMO bigger or more unique.

Have they ever contemplated lowering the playing field? It would greatly improve sightlines for those in the front row.


The problem is also that you can't see the entire end zone from some of the seats. Lowering the field would make a horrible sight line even worse. The Argonauts need a football specific stadium that holds 35,000 to 40,000.


5) The threat of the NFL coming makes it a big risk. Ted Rogers is trying to line up a purchase of the Bills now that Ralph Wilson has said he's going to sell to the highest bidder when he dies rather than pass the team down to his family. CFL folks around here are very concerned about the detrimental effect it would have on the CFL because the Argos would struggle to stay alive.

I doubt the NFL will come to Toronto when there is no team in Los Angeles. The Skydome (Rogers Centre) doesn't meet NFL standards either. The Bills need to stay in Buffalo, and Ted Rogers needs to contribute to pro football in Canada rather than trying to destroy it. If he buys the Bills and moves it to Toronto, my cable, cell phone, and internet contracts will be cancelled immediately. No way that company will ever see another dime from me.

I love the stadium and very much enjoy ball games there. Seems everyone whines about it, but to me it is a great place to watch a game. Sure beats the hell out of sitting in freezing winds or pouring rain. No games have to be cancelled here because of weather.

It's a decent place. I go to 3-5 jays games a year, and I enjoy the place. Good sightlines, good scoreboard, etc.

I've been to Wrigley for a game, sat in the outfield bleachers, but no way am I going to compare the two.

One thing I've noticed, painting the interior concrete to blue along the ledges has a wonderful effect on the ballpark. Look at older pictures where it's white/grey. Absolutely better in blue.

Would love to see grass in there, but I know that is totally unrealistic and impossible to achieve with the Argos in there. And not to mention the vast other events in there as well.

It's great for baseball. My favourite seat is actually upper bowl behind home plate.

Oldest? I'll compromise. The Toronto Argonauts are the oldest continually running team in North American pro sport. The Hamilton Tiger-Cats are the oldest team in North American pro sport.

the Atlanta Braves are the oldest continuously operating pro team in north america

The problem is also that you can't see the entire end zone from some of the seats. Lowering the field would make a horrible sight line even worse. The Argonauts need a football specific stadium that holds 35,000 to 40,000.

I doubt the NFL will come to Toronto when there is no team in Los Angeles. The Skydome (Rogers Centre) doesn't meet NFL standards either. The Bills need to stay in Buffalo, and Ted Rogers needs to contribute to pro football in Canada rather than trying to destroy it. If he buys the Bills and moves it to Toronto, my cable, cell phone, and internet contracts will be cancelled immediately. No way that company will ever see another dime from me.


The CFL, as a whole, really needs to look into either replacing or drastically remodeling a lot of these decrepit stadiums (especially Ivor Wynne, Mosaic, Canad Inns, Frank Clair, etc.). How can blowhards like Larry Campbell be so quick to introduce legislation to protect one of the country's cultural institutions but be so unwilling to invest government dollars into stimulating its growth?

And no, the Bills should not be cruelly ripped away from a city who has supported them through thick-and-thin. Spend a couple hundred mil to renovate Ralph Wilson, problem solved. If anything, the NFL should expand by two teams, putting one in each conference--with 34 teams, you can eliminate the divisional format and replace it with a 16-game round-robin, which would also eliminate complaints about strength of schedule.

The Jays owner owns the stadium and would never go for it. The only way it would happen is if he gets the NFL team he wants so badly and the NFL forces him to improve the sightlines. The Argos have considered moving to BMO Field which is where Toronto FC plays but they'd have to pay for an expansion and the owners don't have the money for that.

Here's a pic of BMO Field

http://www.stadiumbleachers.com/Images/Projects/Soccer/Toronto-MLS-Stadium/Toronto-BMO-Field-Soccer-Bleachers-1.jpg

I'd love to see a full roof around that place.

The CFL, as a whole, really needs to look into either replacing or drastically remodeling a lot of these decrepit stadiums (especially Ivor Wynne, Mosaic, Canad Inns, Frank Clair, etc.). How can blowhards like Larry Campbell be so quick to introduce legislation to protect one of the country's cultural institutions but be so unwilling to invest government dollars into stimulating its growth?

A new stadium in Saskatchewan is very likely to happen in the next few years. The Roughriders are HUGE in Saskatchewan and sell out every game. Additionally, the government is awash with cash with the booming Saskatchewan economy so government dollars will be available. The Premier has even mentioned this.

Renderings have been release for new stadiums in Ottawa and Winnipeg but who knows when/if that will happen.

Ivor Wynne desperately needs work. Problem is that the owner knows a new stadium would likely mean moving to the suburbs with a *gasp* running track and would rather remain in the same spot. They just need to rebuild the two main stands. It's a good location in the heart of the city and sholdn't move.

I think NFL football could thrive in Toronto for sure. The Rogers Centre is a little too small for an NFL stadium. I think that there will be an ongoing partnership between the two metros of Toronto and Buffalo moving forward and beyond the current 5 year agreement. Perhaps an expansion beyond the 1 game a year in Toronto? Maybe 2-3? Buffalo gets about 100K a year for a box at Ralph Wilson. You could 100k or more a game in TO. You cannot buy a history though and it is vital that the team maitain the strong tie to it's roots in Buffalo. I would hate to see it, but I think it would make the team viable in that area for the long term. That would ensure that one of the largest North American markets remains served by the NFL. LA can get and expansion team or get a team from a place like JAX where the team is struggling. Toronto is way way to wealthy to not have a greater role in the NFL.

I'd much rather the team stay in Buffalo. Best for the Argos and I'd much rather go to a Bills game at the Ralph than in Toronto. However, there's a lot of people in Buffalo with their head in the sand on the potential for losing the team. Everyone in Buffalo I talk to and even some of the complete idiots on the radio there keep saying "well every game is sold out so what's the big deal." None of them seem to understand that Joe shmo paying 30 bucks a seat to fill the last few seats in the upper bowl has very little to do with the team's viability. It's the corporate dollars that Buffalo just doesn't have. It's a shrinking city with a depressed economy with big business leaving. The team's sponsors consist of ambulance chasers and local car dealerships. Now in a recession with slumping car sales it's going to be even more of a stretch. In the modern NFL that's just not going to cut it. The corporate dollars in places like LA and Toronto are enormous in comparison. Astronomical luxury box prices with sponsorship from national and multinational corporations. I'm hoping Buffalo stays exactly where they are but I'm definitely getting worried.

Put a good team on the field and you can raise prices and people will still fill the stadium in Buffalo. Ralph has to grasp this. I agree, there needs to be a good balance between the die hard fan base in Buffalo and the corporate dollars in Toronto. In the long run, you can't stay status quo in Buffalo, but running for Toronto is not the answer either. I'd say 5 games in Buffalo and 3 in TO is realistic. Or a 80,000 seat stadium in Ft. Erie Ontario or St. Catts a real compromise for both metros. You would actually be closer to Buffalo than OP is. You would need the new bridge over the Niagara and you must have to have good tailgaiting.

^^ The NFL needs to stay out of Canada. We're talking about the potential destruction of pro football across an entire nation, because some people in 1 Canadian city think they're too good for the rest of the country. And Torontonians wonder why there's so much animosity towards them nationally. Gee, I wonder why?

Torontonians need to start contributing to pro football in Canada instead of destroying it.

The CFL, as a whole, really needs to look into either replacing or drastically remodeling a lot of these decrepit stadiums (especially Ivor Wynne, Mosaic, Canad Inns, Frank Clair, etc.).

And no, the Bills should not be cruelly ripped away from a city who has supported them through thick-and-thin.

Agree 100%. All 4 of those stadiums above look likely to be replaced soon.

Ivor Wynne in Hamilton will rest on a successful Toronto Pan Am Games bid. Saskatchewan is football mad and the population will be very supportive of pouring money into Mosaic which is always sold out. The Bombers look very close to sealing a new stadium for the Bombers, while Frank Clair also seems likely to get over hauled.

The Bills must stay in Buffalo. It's their team. The NFL needs to stay out of Canada altogether.

As an American NFL fan it would be somewhat sad to see Buffalo lose a team. However if they were to move it would make a lot of sense and Buffalo natives could at least be near their old team and have a regionally loyalty towards them. It would be nice to have an NFL team in a different country and Toronto is a major NA city and if they could get a new stadium to host then why not? I think Canada needs one large state of the art "national" stadium of sorts. Configure it so that seats could be pulled out for the larger Canadian game.

We have 2 stadiums in Canada of that stature already. Montreal Olympic Stadium and Edmonton's Commonwealth Stadium.

I understand the sentiments about Buffalo losing pro football. This potential loss pales in comparison to my entire nation losing pro football because of the monetary interests of re-positioning one NFL team in one Canadian city.

My entire nation might end up with no pro football outside of Toronto if the Bills move here. Can you imagine no pro football in your country except in New York City? Can you imagine losing the Packers, Bears, etc?

Does the NFL really need to destroy a century of pro football tradition in this country to fatten its already bulging wallet? It's no wonder people around Canada are so worried. That's what we're facing from one end of Canada to the other all so that some NFL gazing Torontonians can entertain their business clients in some luxury box.

This can't be allowed to happen. Torontonians will never live it down.

^^ You think Montreal's or Edmonton's stadium is of the same caliber as the new Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, NYC, or Chicago NFL stadiums?

Obviously Olympic in Montreal and Commonwealth in Edmonton aren't as good but that's not the point. They both sit empty most of the year so the need for a state of the art national stadium isn't really there. An NFL team in Toronto would likely require a new stadium but the government's not going to dish out hundreds of millions of dollars for 8 games a year.

One of the worst looking stadiums in the MLB. Only Tropican and Oakland can compete with it for the ugliest outfield.

Are there any plans for a new baseball stadium for the Blue Jays?

You crazy! The Blue Jays will never get a new baseball stadium! Although they do share the stadium with a CFL team.

^^ You think Montreal's or Edmonton's stadium is of the same caliber as the new Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, NYC, or Chicago NFL stadiums?

No, I don't. They both need a lot of money poured into their refurbishment in the same way as happened with Wembley in London. It should be noted that these are both significantly extravagant stadia. The one in Montreal, specifically.

Montreal Olympic Stadium has many problems, but I consider it one of the most spectacular structures ever built on earth. It cost over $1 Billion and is still a building millions of people photograph whether they have an interest in sport or not.

In 2 weeks it will play host to the 96th Grey Cup game and close to 70,000 spectators. It may not be as modern as a long list of stadiums around the world, but it's definitely a stadium worthy of being called Canada's national stadium. You spoke about Canada having a 'national' stadium, not whether they were of a similar calibre to any particular list of yours.

Toronto will have to construct a large stadium with an athletics track if the dream of hosting the Summer Olympics is to be realized. The problem then becomes what to do with the stadium after wards. Apart from the Leafs and TFC, Toronto is a big event town more than it is a big sports town. If something is considered a big deal, they will support it. It is why they don't draw more than 35,000 to football in this town despite a massive population. Torontonians aren't football fans, they are big spectacle fans. If they really loved football, they'd support their local team and build it into something better, like is done everywhere else on this continent.

No, I don't. They both need a lot of money poured into their refurbishment in the same way as happened with Wembley in London. It should be noted that these are both significantly extravagant stadia. The one in Montreal, specifically.

Montreal Olympic Stadium has many problems, but I consider it one of the most spectacular structures ever built on earth. It cost over $1 Billion and is still a building millions of people photograph whether they have an interest in sport or not.

In 2 weeks it will play host to the 96th Grey Cup game and close to 70,000 spectators. It may not be as modern as a long list of stadiums around the world, but it's definitely a stadium worthy of being called Canada's national stadium. You spoke about Canada having a 'national' stadium, not whether they were of a similar calibre to any particular list of yours.


too bad the inside has been bastardized over the years by the Expos, it looks terrible in football mode now

With the Expos gone, improvements will surely follow. The upcoming Grey Cup will likely provide glimpses into certain upgrades that have been made. Baseball had reduced football capacity to about 59,000. They're expecting about 68,000 for the Grey Cup which is close to the original capacity when the Summer Olympics were staged in Montreal.

I'd love to see Olympic stadium restored to original condition and pop the roof off. Use for athletic championships, concerts, international football matches, and big CFL games. It would take a lot of private funds, I don't think the public will throw another dime at that building.

No, I don't. They both need a lot of money poured into their refurbishment in the same way as happened with Wembley in London. It should be noted that these are both significantly extravagant stadia. The one in Montreal, specifically.

Montreal Olympic Stadium has many problems, but I consider it one of the most spectacular structures ever built on earth. It cost over $1 Billion and is still a building millions of people photograph whether they have an interest in sport or not.

In 2 weeks it will play host to the 96th Grey Cup game and close to 70,000 spectators. It may not be as modern as a long list of stadiums around the world, but it's definitely a stadium worthy of being called Canada's national stadium. You spoke about Canada having a 'national' stadium, not whether they were of a similar calibre to any particular list of yours.

Toronto will have to construct a large stadium with an athletics track if the dream of hosting the Summer Olympics is to be realized. The problem then becomes what to do with the stadium after wards. Apart from the Leafs and TFC, Toronto is a big event town more than it is a big sports town. If something is considered a big deal, they will support it. It is why they don't draw more than 35,000 to football in this town despite a massive population. Torontonians aren't football fans, they are big spectacle fans. If they really loved football, they'd support their local team and build it into something better, like is done everywhere else on this continent.

I dunno if I agree, they seem to love TFC. It's the only team other than LA that sells out all of their games. I guess they just don't like throwball, which makes sense......since Toronto is an immigrant city.

Anyhoo, I find it ironic that the Argos were supposed to have a joint stadium with TFC. Then they backed out when they were offered free rent at the Rogers Center. Then they saw how much of a success TFC is and they proposed sharing BMO.
Although I'm against it, I hate watching soccer teams on fieldturf. Ugh.

MLSE always gets slagged for being sleezy and ripping off the tax payer with respect to BMO Field but what the Argos tried to do was worse. They backed out with the assumption that the stadium would get built anyway so they thought "hey, why don't we just let everyone else pay for the construction and then when it's all finished we'll slide right back in." Now it's built and they're crying foul and I have zero sympathy. What bugs me is the soccer hating Toronto media that always sides with the Argos because it's a mainstream sport in the city and therefore have "entitlement" above some soccer team they don't like and don't want to have to report on.

I dunno if I agree, they seem to love TFC. It's the only team other than LA that sells out all of their games. I guess they just don't like throwball, which makes sense......since Toronto is an immigrant city.

Anyhoo, I find it ironic that the Argos were supposed to have a joint stadium with TFC. Then they backed out when they were offered free rent at the Rogers Center. Then they saw how much of a success TFC is and they proposed sharing BMO.
Although I'm against it, I hate watching soccer teams on fieldturf. Ugh.

In Canada, football means Canadian football, not soccer. My comment refers to Torontonians generally not being fans of gridiron. If they were genuine fans of the game, they'd support the Argonauts and help build the CFL.

That most have little interest in building the one pro football team they have, but would rather watch the big spectacle that is the NFL, suggests that they are drawn not to the sport, but the lights and wanting to be associated with something glamourous.

You see it in baseball as well. Toronto is not a baseball town, they are only drawn to it in large numbers if they are in a pennant race. The only 2 sports that Torontonians are genuine fans of is hockey and soccer. They will support TFC and the Maple Leafs passionately year after year regardless of how weak the teams or league are.

Sure they want to win, but love of these 2 sports brings them out regardless. Football? No. Basketball? No. Baseball? No. They'll only go if it becomes such a big deal that it transcends the sport itself.

^ I kinda disagree, Basketball has done well in Toronto, and while soccer is doing well, and I'll love my TFC til death, I'm not so sure about everyone else

You see it in baseball as well. Toronto is not a baseball town, they are only drawn to it in large numbers if they are in a pennant race. The only 2 sports that Torontonians are genuine fans of is hockey and soccer. They will support TFC and the Maple Leafs passionately year after year regardless of how weak the teams or league are.

Sure they want to win, but love of these 2 sports brings them out regardless. Football? No. Basketball? No. Baseball? No. They'll only go if it becomes such a big deal that it transcends the sport itself.

?? Why do you say that? Attendance for the Blue Jays has been steadily going up for quite a number of years. Torontonians love football, but they are not entranced with the CFL. That does not mean they don't watch football, as they are becoming more interested in the NFL.

^ I kinda disagree, Basketball has done well in Toronto, and while soccer is doing well, and I'll love my TFC til death, I'm not so sure about everyone else

Toronto 'til I die!

what are TFC t.v. ratings? How do they compare to the other Toronto teams?

^^ Oh in terms of TV ratings we're shit. I don't have the exact figures but it's bad. I'm sure it will slowly improve though.

^^ Oh in terms of TV ratings we're shit. I don't have the exact figures but it's bad. I'm sure it will slowly improve though.

ah, I see. Any guess to how they compare to the CFL? I had my doubts about comments made earlier about how Toronto is a bigger soccer city then a basketball one. Raptors games I watch always seem to be filled.

ah, I see. Any guess to how they compare to the CFL? I had my doubts about comments made earlier about how Toronto is a bigger soccer city then a basketball one. Raptors games I watch always seem to be filled.

toronto is a huge soccer city.. it is more of a soccer city then a raptors city.. when referring to soccer i mean.. in europe and england... when world cup or euro comes around every 4 years the city really shows its love for soccer... having said that the raptors are probably more popular than tfc

^^ I personally think if TFC start winning, a lot of people will jump on the boat.

?? Why do you say that? Attendance for the Blue Jays has been steadily going up for quite a number of years. Torontonians love football, but they are not entranced with the CFL. That does not mean they don't watch football, as they are becoming more interested in the NFL.

If you've lived in a town that loves a particular sport, you'll notice a huge difference between it and Toronto. In a metro of 6 million people, it's not hard to get 30,000 people out to anything. It's a mistake to simply see a stadium with 32,000 fans in the stands and assume a city is into a certain sport. Green Bay gets 75,000 to see the Packers and has 170,000 on the waiting list for season's tickets. They live and breathe the Packers. It might not be a healthy environment, but it's laughable to argue that Toronto is comparable. Besides the Leafs, Toronto is no where close to being a sports town.

People don't talk baseball, basketball, or football in this town. The average citizen isn't aware of the latest happenings of the Blue Jays , Raptors, or Argonauts. Go to Chicago, and you'll notice a huge difference. In Chicago, you pick an allegiance to local teams regardless of personal interest.

My friend Andy isn't into sports, but wears a Bull's cap. I asked him why and he said it's just what you do when you live there. If you want to socialize with your co-workers its a good idea to follow at least one of the teams. It's difficult to engage socially without talking about the Bulls, Bears, White Sox, Cubs, or Blackhawks. Chicago is a sports town. Toronto only feels that way regarding the Leafs, and to a growing degree, TFC.

Torontonians definitely do not love football. It's ludicrous to assert such a thing when they've totally abandoned the only team they have. You get what you support and they certainly don't support this sport and help build it into something great. People that love a sport do these things. They support, nurture, and pour their energies into it.

Torontonians are entranced by the glitz, glamour, and spectacle of the NFL. People who actually have a love for a sport will even go watch high school teams. People in Ohio love football. People in Saskatchewan love football. Even people in Halifax love football. They don't even have a pro team and come out in force to watch football games. Ontario? Sorry, they don't support the sport of football, but are attracted to the spectacle of a brand called the NFL. That's a huge difference.

I really have to just roll my eyes when Torontonians say they're big football fans. That's an utter joke to me, and most of Canada. Go to Saskatchewan, Ohio, or West Texas if you want to see what cities into football look like. And the argument that Toronto is a big city with lots of diversions doesn't wash either. Melbourne supports 9 football teams out of the 16 teams in the Australian Football League. 9! We can barely manage 1. An entire national football league is built on the backs of one Australian city 60% the size of Toronto!

2008 average attendance for Melbourne football clubs:

Collingwood Magpies 42,498
Essendon Bombers 41,947
Hawthorn Hawks 41,436
Carlton Blues 39,360
North Melbourne Kangaroos 32,600
Richmond Tigers 30,820
St. Kilda Saints 30,063
Melbourne Demons 29,619
Western Bulldogs 28,306


Toronto Argonauts 29,189 For a city of 6 million that's beyond pathetic!

Melbourne gets to call itself a supporter of football. Toronto does not. Put another 5 football teams in Toronto that average over 30,000 attendance, and I'll consider changing my mind.

I agree; football is almost completely off the radar for most Torontonians. Hockey (perfect for the winter months) and soccer (perfect for the warmer months) seem to be the two sports that have the most popularity. Hockey has been a constantly popular sport here and is firmly entrenched in the culture. Soccer, however, is gaining popularity to a large degree from the number of immigrants who have moved here from countries where soccer was the sport of choice.
As for the Skydome ( ;) ), I think it's great. The nightlighting is particularly fantastic and is a great focal point. I wonder, as the number of highrises continue to grow in this area, if it will be completely blocked from harbour views?

Isaidso, I won't argue with you as you have decided that the fanbase for sports in Toronto you are not interested in personally is practically non-existent. I invite you to take in a Blue Jays game next summer, or a Raptor's basketball game.
For myself, I see it as healthy and well rounded for a city to have varied cultural interests (the Arts, ballet, music, theatre, etc...) as opposed to everyone being obsessed with one sport, but that is just me. I have never felt a herding instinct, and somewhat dislike being bullied into mandatory civic support for one sport or team, so am quite happy to live with your damnation that Toronto is not a "Sports City". :)
For all those who claim open air stadiums are the only way to go, it was pouring buckets of rain at the time of this Blue Jays game this past summer, so they simply closed the roof half way through to avoid it.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/dawnd_01/Autumn%202007/winter%202007/Summer%202008/New%20Summer%202008/IMGP7994.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/dawnd_01/Autumn%202007/winter%202007/Summer%202008/New%20Summer%202008/IMGP7994.jpg

I haven't said the fan base is non-existent. I've said it is puny for a city this size.

I haven't argued that it's healthy either. It's infinitely better to have a well balanced and varied cultural interests in a city. Toronto does, but it doesn't get to call itself a sports town. We're not. We've been through these arguments before. Being a city that cares for a sport and whether it is healthy are two entirely different issues.

People talk about the Leafs. The other teams? It's not water cooler chatter each day from one end of the city to the other. I didn't say it was healthy, but that's what a sports town feels like. Remember when the Blue Jays won the World Series? If Toronto was a baseball town, the Blue Jays would be front and centre like that regardless of their win-loss column.

I've lived in cities that get to call themselves fans of a particular sport. They certainly don't look like Toronto. I can guarantee you that. In Toronto you have lots of options, but you're certainly not going to get swept up in any sports mania surrounding a team in Toronto unless they are the Leafs, or the team is close to winning something. Support based on win-loss column means one is attracted to spectacle, not the actual sport.

I go to Blue Jays games all the time. 32,000/game in a city of 6 million? It's not just attendance at games, its the % of the population that actively follow these sports. I can walk down my street, and probably only 1 in 10 follow any of our teams with the exception of the Leafs. Toronto is a sports lovers 'Siberia.'

Ok, well the crown of Sports Obsessed can be given to Melbourne or Halifax, or Regina and I am quite cool with that. I don't value my city's worth by figuring out the % of people who herded to any particular sport any more than I value my national pride by weighing and counting Olympic medals.

Fair enough. It's not important to most Torontonians. I'd just rather call a spade a spade. Torontonians like to think of their city as a sports lovers paradise, but it's not. Take it from one who has to travel 2000 km just to get my fix. Sports fanaticism has many negatives, but I certainly miss aspects of it that just aren't available to me in this city.

When you love a sport, it's nice being in a sea of people who share your enthusiasm and you're not even in a stadium, but just walking down the street. The World Cup is a good example of how a whole city being caught up in support of a team can add to the atmosphere of a city.

You may not agree, but I find Toronto a more exciting place during World Cups. It's not about judging a city's worth by support for sports, but that kind of enthusiasm adds to the excitement of a city. Toronto during the World Series run was yet another example. Toronto was fun during those pennant runs. I wish Toronto was like that more often with more sports all year round.

Sure sports is part of the mix. Yes it is fun during big Cup finals. And nothing is more fun than winning a cup!! No one will disagree with that. I suppose we mix in different circles, as most people I know would classify our city as sports mad; but they would be happy that there is a broad mix of sports here to go watch if they are interested in that. Sports are important, but they are only one facet of a well rounded city. If sports is the only yardstick to measure the worth of a city then Vancouver and Montreal are also miserable failures... Take cities like London, Paris and New York. Sports are very important, but only as part of a broader cultural mix. Many Londoners love their football, just as many Torontonians love their hockey.... but there is one hell of a lot more to London than just one sport.
By the way, I suppose we all have different definitions of what constitutes being a good "sports town". To me it would require supporting teams not only when they win (which is easy) but also through the lean times when they are not the one team in the league who wins. Secondly, a good sports town should be able to embrace more than just one or two sports, but have a well rounded interest and teams of different types of sports. Otherwise a town might be a good "Football Town", or a good "Hockey Town", but not necessarily a good town for "Sports". In this way I would consider a person a better Sports fan if he/she takes an interest in a wide variety of sports, and doesn't just live and breathe one team of one sport. Likewise I don't consider a person who will only drink Chardonnay to be a true wine aficionado! :)

By the way, I suppose we all have different definitions of what constitutes being a good "sports town". To me it would require supporting teams not only when they win (which is easy) but also through the lean times when they are not the one team in the league who wins. Secondly, a good sports town should be able to embrace more than just one or two sports, but have a well rounded interest and teams of different types of sports. Otherwise a town might be a good "Football Town", or a good "Hockey Town", but not necessarily a good town for "Sports". In this way I would consider a person a better Sports fan if he/she takes an interest in a wide variety of sports, and doesn't just live and breathe one team of one sport. Likewise I don't consider a person who will only drink Chardonnay to be a true wine aficionado! :)

This paragraph sums up what I'm trying to convey. Toronto supports the Leafs and TFC, win or lose, but that's about it. We're a great Leafs town and a great soccer town, but not a great sports town. If you love sports, but not the Leafs, your options are limited. It's TFC or travel to another city that's into the sport you like.

I love basketball and football, but to enjoy the type of enthusiasm soccer and Leafs people get to enjoy in this city, I have to leave Toronto for Halifax or Regina. Basketball and football are hardly fringe sports. If this was the sports paradise that locals think it is, I wouldn't have to leave the city to get my fix.

Take football! The national college football championships are tomorrow. I wonder how many people in Toronto are planning to attend or watch it on television. Not only will they not know who is playing in the final, they won't know that it's taking place. Real lovers of the game of football will know these things.

I'll probably end up driving solo to Hamilton to watch Western battle Laval. Toronto loves football? The argument for that is so weak. By the way, I think we actually see this issue quite similarly even though it doesn't appear so on the surface. I'll also add that Skydome is great for baseball. My favourite seat is actually upper bowl behind home plate.

This paragraph sums up what I'm trying to convey. Toronto supports the Leafs and TFC, win or lose, but that's about it. We're a great Leafs town and a great soccer town, but not a great sports town. If you love sports, but not the Leafs, your options are limited. It's TFC or travel to another city that's into the sport you like.

I love basketball and football, but to enjoy the type of enthusiasm soccer and Leafs people get to enjoy in this city, I have to leave Toronto for Halifax or Regina. Basketball and football are hardly fringe sports. If this was the sports paradise that locals think it is, I wouldn't have to leave the city to get my fix.

Take football! The national college football championships are tomorrow. I wonder how many people in Toronto are planning to attend or watch it on television. Not only will they not know who is playing in the final, they won't know that it's taking place. Real lovers of the game of football will know these things.

I'll probably end up driving solo to Hamilton to watch Western battle Laval. Toronto loves football? The argument for that is so weak. By the way, I think we actually see this issue quite similarly even though it doesn't appear so on the surface. I'll also add that Skydome is great for baseball. My favourite seat is actually upper bowl behind home plate.

You might have mis-read what I said. I said that towns can be "football towns", or "hockey towns" but they don't necessarily support a broad range of sports which would be necessary to qualify as a Sports Town. I did not say Toronto was a "football town". However, seeing as you dismiss football support in Toronto as negligible (and refuse to acknowledge the strong interest in the NFL), let's actually look at the attendance statistics for the CFL, for 2008. The average attendance for all teams was 28,125. Toronto's avg attendance was 29,368. Montreal, putting aside all myths of rabid football support for one moment had an annual avg attendance of 20,202. Hamilton came in at 21,153. link:
http://www.geocities.com/cfl_historical/CFL-Attendance.htm
There is no question that the Canadian Football League is more popular in Western Canada, and has been for the last generation. But that does not mean that there is no support in Toronto for the CFL, as has been shown by the paid admission figures. Despite the fact there is a great deal of competition for the fan's attendance dollars, the CFL is doing not as badly in Toronto as people assume.
And you think Toronto does not support basketball? In 2008 the Raptor's home attendance average per game was 19,073, which was 7th highest out of the 30 teams in the National Basketball League. What more do you want??? link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance
Downtown Toronto has professional teams for Hockey, Football, Baseball, Basketball, and Soccer, which is far more than any other Canadian city has managed to support. Aside from the professional sports there is broad support for minor leagues (like the Marlies), and amateur sports (even including sports that are marginal in North America, like Cricket). I would tend to look upon that as quite an achievement, personally. You apparently see it in quite a different light. I am afraid we shall have to just agree to disagree on this one.

I know you didn't say that Toronto was a football town, but other people in Toronto seem to think Toronto loves football. Toronto doesn't. If you love a sport you support it. Toronto has 2 university teams, 1 pro team, and a lot of high school teams. Toronto doesn't support any of them.

I never said that support for the NFL was negligible. Where have I said that? No where! What I said is that many Torontonians are attracted to a brand called the NFL. The majority of them aren't football fans, they are NFL fans. If you have teams, but you opt for something else, you are attracted to the packaging.

Business students study this in marketing courses. People like this are often not attached to a good or service, but cache and being associated with something that they perceive to be valuable. If you listen to the first thing out of the mouths of Toronto NFL fans when you ask them about the CFL, most of them say: "it's minor league!" Bingo! They are attracted to the packaging rather than the actual product. Football fans? NO! Most of them are fans of a brand. That's Marketing 101.

That is my big beef with Toronto NFL fans. 80% of them aren't lovers of the game of football, they want to be associated with a brand. If the NFL one day becomes an uncool thing, most of them willl be gone as fast as an ice cube in a microwave. Football fans. Perhaps, 20% of them. The rest aren't.

Regarding attendance to home games. There's more there than meets the eye. Do you realize that Molson Stadium only holds 20,202? It's hard to estimate what true attendance would be if they had a larger stadium. Granted, they wouldn't be selling out 70,000 seat Olympic Stadium, but the Montreal Alouettes have recorded 88 consecutive sell outs at Molson Stadium dating back to 1999.

There were 38,000 + at their last game vs. the Eskimos which they played at Olympic Stadium. Their regular home attendance average would probably be in the 34,000 to 36,000 range if Molson could accommodate them. The fans have stated their preference for Molson over Olympic, that's why they play there. It's a great venue for football. Laval Universite attracts 10,000 to 18,000 people to regular season college football. This is in a metro of 700,000 people. U of T? York? They'd be lucky to get 1,000. Football is far bigger in Quebec. It just is.

Hamilton? 21,153 for Hamilton is a hell of a lot better support than 29,368 for Toronto. Toronto has 10 times the population and can only get 8,000 more out to a game? Pathetic! A city the size of Toronto should at the bare minimum be able to attract 80,000 to pro football. That would translate into sell outs at Skydome, and 25,000 on a waiting list for tickets.

The Raptors? Any city of 6,000,000 people should be able to draw 19,000 to basketball with their eyes shut. You can only fit 20,000 in a basketball arena. If you want to analyze how big basketball is in Toronto, you need to go to the universities, colleges, high schools, gyms, driveways, track media coverage, and listen to 'office chatter'.

Basketball is growing by leaps and bounds in Toronto, but is nowhere near the level of support in places like Halifax or Boston. Halifax gets 4,000 out to college ball, for God's sake. They drew 11,000 to a college game all the way back in the 1970s! Do you know how puny Halifax is? It's barely bigger than Oshawa! University of Toronto? York? Ryerson? They'd be lucky to get 500 people to a game.

In Halifax, you grow up dreaming of playing football or basketball for the local high school. Maybe even one of the universities. People in that town talk basketball and football. You can go up to some random person at Tim Horton's and ask them what they think of SMU's chances and they'll have some type of response. Here, they'd look at you with puzzled amusement. Ryerson Rams? What!?!#?

Toronto is big enough that it can support teams in 5 pro sports. Toronto has them only because of the population base here, not because Torontonians are a people that have a strong sports culture. 5 pro sports teams is the bare minimum for a city this size. It's not any great accomplishment. Melbourne's got 9 just in football. London has 5 just in Premiership alone. That doesn't even count all the teams in Division 1, Division 2, or Division 3.

I really don't think you get what 'sports town' means at all. I know you've lived in Winnipeg, but I don't think you've ever lived in a place where sports have permeated into the culture in a significant way. In Toronto we have lots of sporting choices, but sports is not a big part of the culture here like it is in real sports towns.

If you're searching for a place where you can talk sports with any random person on the street, or have an entire city get behind a team, that's simply not available here unless you're into the Leafs and maybe shortly TFC as well. Put another 5 pro football teams in Toronto that each draw 30,000 or more, another MLB team, another NBA team, 3 more MLS teams, draw 20,000 to Ryerson, York, and U of T home games in basketball and hockey; 50,000 for the same schools in football; then create a culture where high school games draw 1000 or more and I'll begin to change my mind.

This weekend is a prime example. I wonder how many Torontonians are going to the Vanier Cup or any sporting event this weekend. I bet it's less than 2% of the population for all sports combined. That's not a sports town. Hamilton gets over 3% of its metro population out to pro football. That's not even including the hundreds of other sports teams in Hamilton.

If Toronto was a sports town, I wouldn't have to go on sports vacations all the time.

By using metropolitan population figures to hypothetically predict "suitable" attendance figures the New York Rangers should have an arena the size of LaGuardia, and pack in 200,000 people per game. ;) (***just a joke so don't take it too seriously***). Somehow I did not expect that looking at actual attendance figures was going to accomplish anything, so I am going to exit the discussion now, as we are going in circles.Perhaps it is best to simply let the discussion go back to the topic of the thread. :)

200,000 spread over perhaps 20 teams in New York at the professional and college level, and I'd start to consider New York as a sports town. Just 20,000 New Yorkers going to hockey, nope! 60,000 isn't an impressive number either. 200,000 attending hockey on a regular basis is in the ball park. Of course, they'd have to post similar numbers in at least another 2 sports.

I'm getting a bit tired too, so I'll let this thread get back to Skydome talk. How about those Argonauts? :)

I like the Rogers Centre a lot. When I went up to Toronto for a Blue Jays-Yankees game back in September, thought it was a pretty nice stadium. Plus, it looks great at night...with the CN tower right next door.

As for NFL in Toronto...not going to happen unless another team gets in. :)

I know you didn't say that Toronto was a football town, but other people in Toronto seem to think Toronto loves football. Toronto doesn't. If you love a sport you support it. Toronto has 2 university teams, 1 pro team, and a lot of high school teams. Toronto doesn't support any of them.

I never said that support for the NFL was negligible. Where have I said that? No where! What I said is that many Torontonians are attracted to a brand called the NFL. The majority of them aren't football fans, they are NFL fans. If you have teams, but you opt for something else, you are attracted to the packaging.

Business students study this in marketing courses. People like this are often not attached to a good or service, but cache and being associated with something that they perceive to be valuable. If you listen to the first thing out of the mouths of Toronto NFL fans when you ask them about the CFL, most of them say: "it's minor league!" Bingo! They are attracted to the packaging rather than the actual product. Football fans? NO! Most of them are fans of a brand. That's Marketing 101.

That is my big beef with Toronto NFL fans. 80% of them aren't lovers of the game of football, they want to be associated with a brand. If the NFL one day becomes an uncool thing, most of them willl be gone as fast as an ice cube in a microwave. Football fans. Perhaps, 20% of them. The rest aren't.

Regarding attendance to home games. There's more there than meets the eye. Do you realize that Molson Stadium only holds 20,202? It's hard to estimate what true attendance would be if they had a larger stadium. Granted, they wouldn't be selling out 70,000 seat Olympic Stadium, but the Montreal Alouettes have recorded 88 consecutive sell outs at Molson Stadium dating back to 1999.

There were 38,000 + at their last game vs. the Eskimos which they played at Olympic Stadium. Their regular home attendance average would probably be in the 34,000 to 36,000 range if Molson could accommodate them. The fans have stated their preference for Molson over Olympic, that's why they play there. It's a great venue for football. Laval Universite attracts 10,000 to 18,000 people to regular season college football. This is in a metro of 700,000 people. U of T? York? They'd be lucky to get 1,000. Football is far bigger in Quebec. It just is.

Hamilton? 21,153 for Hamilton is a hell of a lot better support than 29,368 for Toronto. Toronto has 10 times the population and can only get 8,000 more out to a game? Pathetic! A city the size of Toronto should at the bare minimum be able to attract 80,000 to pro football. That would translate into sell outs at Skydome, and 25,000 on a waiting list for tickets.

The Raptors? Any city of 6,000,000 people should be able to draw 19,000 to basketball with their eyes shut. You can only fit 20,000 in a basketball arena. If you want to analyze how big basketball is in Toronto, you need to go to the universities, colleges, high schools, gyms, driveways, track media coverage, and listen to 'office chatter'.

Basketball is growing by leaps and bounds in Toronto, but is nowhere near the level of support in places like Halifax or Boston. Halifax gets 4,000 out to college ball, for God's sake. They drew 11,000 to a college game all the way back in the 1970s! Do you know how puny Halifax is? It's barely bigger than Oshawa! University of Toronto? York? Ryerson? They'd be lucky to get 500 people to a game.

In Halifax, you grow up dreaming of playing football or basketball for the local high school. Maybe even one of the universities. People in that town talk basketball and football. You can go up to some random person at Tim Horton's and ask them what they think of SMU's chances and they'll have some type of response. Here, they'd look at you with puzzled amusement. Ryerson Rams? What!?!#?

Toronto is big enough that it can support teams in 5 pro sports. Toronto has them only because of the population base here, not because Torontonians are a people that have a strong sports culture. 5 pro sports teams is the bare minimum for a city this size. It's not any great accomplishment. Melbourne's got 9 just in football. London has 5 just in Premiership alone. That doesn't even count all the teams in Division 1, Division 2, or Division 3.

I really don't think you get what 'sports town' means at all. I know you've lived in Winnipeg, but I don't think you've ever lived in a place where sports have permeated into the culture in a significant way. In Toronto we have lots of sporting choices, but sports is not a big part of the culture here like it is in real sports towns.

If you're searching for a place where you can talk sports with any random person on the street, or have an entire city get behind a team, that's simply not available here unless you're into the Leafs and maybe shortly TFC as well. Put another 5 pro football teams in Toronto that each draw 30,000 or more, another MLB team, another NBA team, 3 more MLS teams, draw 20,000 to Ryerson, York, and U of T home games in basketball and hockey; 50,000 for the same schools in football; then create a culture where high school games draw 1000 or more and I'll begin to change my mind.

This weekend is a prime example. I wonder how many Torontonians are going to the Vanier Cup or any sporting event this weekend. I bet it's less than 2% of the population for all sports combined. That's not a sports town. Hamilton gets over 3% of its metro population out to pro football. That's not even including the hundreds of other sports teams in Hamilton.

If Toronto was a sports town, I wouldn't have to go on sports vacations all the time.

Sounds like you'd enjoy a vacation to Miami. :-P

. How about those Argonauts? :)

Are you crazy? Who watches football!?!?!? :D

Not Toronto. Be back tomorrow. I've got a football game to go watch in Hamilton. :|

Sounds like you'd enjoy a vacation to Miami. :-P

I probably would. Want to send me a ticket?

^^^ Ugh, I envy you so much! (vanier cup)

You're welcome to come with. We can hit The Embassy after.

Tell you what. I'll go sit in the Embassy and enjoy a few frosties whilst you two go freeze your t*** off watching grown men kick a pigskin far away and then apparently rapidly change their minds and run after it to retrieve it. In the process all of the grown men wind up frequently flinging the entire weight of their large bodies onto other men.
You can join me when all the kicking/fetching and bone crushing is finished and I will treat you to a bevvie! :)

That was a very nice offer, but I had left already. It was super cold despite my considerable layering. Football people are a strange breed. I'll admit that. I had zero affiliation with either of those schools, it started to snow in the 4th quarter, and I couldn't feel my toes any more, but would do it all over again tomorrow.

Lots of gorgeous boys everywhere. Still not biting? I know you'll never be a convert, but that's ok.

As appealing as it might sound, I prefer the option of watching it on a tv whilst propping up a bar somewhere! :D

Not Toronto. Be back tomorrow. I've got a football game to go watch in Hamilton. :|



I probably would. Want to send me a ticket?

Well, I was referring to your description of Toronto's status as a sports town--you pretty much described Miami to a "T." :D

Well, with winter just around the corner, I agree with isaidso.. a ticket to Miami is sounding pretty interesting right about now! ;)

Honestly, I don't get the sense Hockey or even the leafs for that matter are very popular in inner-city Toronto. I flicked on the Toronto-Chicago game and it seemed 95% of the fans were caucasians.. look how multicutural metro Toronto is, just turn on a Raptors or TFC game.

I really don't think you get what 'sports town' means at all. In Toronto we have lots of sporting choices, but sports is not a big part of the culture here like it is in real sports towns.

Well, I don't think you can nail down just one definition of the term. Who says diversity is trumped by the domination of one sport?

Sports in Toronto, is like everything else about Toronto...highly diversified. People only tend to be interested in the sports they like, so judge it by that, rather than other perspectives.

Toronto's the kind of town where people mob the streets to support a non-Toronto based team...and that's a bit unusual. It shows a love of sport beyond home-town raw-raw.

Beyond being able to support such diversified ML sports teams like hockey, baseball, football, basketball, soccer, lacrosse (which few cities can), Toronto supports a huge range of sports...and sports doesn't have to mean supporting a local team at all.

Are we a hockey town? sure...but you could even call us more of a horse town...Woodbine outdraws the Leafs by a pretty big factor, as well as being an older institution, and holds a more important place in horse racing world than the Leafs do in the hockey world. It isn't a "team" sport, so we just don't realize it.

We have few peers in Golf or curling...we are also a major sailing town...pro-tennis...pro auto-racing...120,000 show up to watch teams from around the world compete in our annual Dragon Boat race...Wakestock is the World Series in the prof wakeboarding world. I am amazed every time I pass one of those old-school lawn bowling fields (of which the city is dotted with), at just how popular that sport is. The list is quite long and diversified.

Toronto doesn't seem like a sports town to the sports-minded individual, because we aren't a card-carrying one-sport myopic town.



KGB

Well, with winter just around the corner, I agree with isaidso.. a ticket to Miami is sounding pretty interesting right about now! ;)

Well, if you're interested...just about everywhere I look I'm seeing ~$300 roundtrip after fees. :)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&fkt=664&fsdt=6240&q=toronto+to+miami&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=

¡Pero aviso, si visita Miami, debe aprender español! :p

Don't tempt me... ;)

Can we go back to Rogers Centre?

Sure! Please do! :)

Good Lord, how do they expect to sell any tickets to freaking BILLS fans with these kinds of prices?

http://www.billsintoronto.com/docs/seatmap_120708.pdf

^ They think we are idiots?

$70 for those seats?!

^ They think we are idiots?

A more accurate assessment is that they know enough people are idiots. It's the same deal as with the Leafs. It's about selling ridiculously expensive tickets to the rich and business people who buy to impress other people.

thats really expensive, but how many seats will Rogers Centre have in this NFL layout??? asuming some temporary seats, i highly doubt anything more than 55,000....

most NFL stadiums are in the high 60's lower 70's capacity, so one way or another they need to make money equally to other NFL franchises (that is the point to play in Toronto, isn't??)

A more accurate assessment is that they know enough people are idiots. It's the same deal as with the Leafs. It's about selling ridiculously expensive tickets to the rich and business people who buy to impress other people.

For this reason alone I think the CFL could survive--hell, maybe even thrive--with the NFL in T.O..

thats really expensive, but how many seats will Rogers Centre have in this NFL layout??? asuming some temporary seats, i highly doubt anything more than 55,000....

most NFL stadiums are in the high 60's lower 70's capacity, so one way or another they need to make money equally to other NFL franchises (that is the point to play in Toronto, isn't??)

It's not seating capacity and gate receipts that's important, it's revenue generated from luxury boxes, which is non-shared amongst other teams, and Skydome has those in spades (approximately 160 last time I checked).

For this reason alone I think the CFL could survive--hell, maybe even thrive--with the NFL in T.O..

I think the recent Bills game was an huge eye opener for many Toronto NFL supporters. $300 for a ticket to be associated with a glamourous brand? The CFL is all about their fans and the game of football. It would be ironic if the arrival of the NFL in Toronto made the CFL boom. The 'grass is always greener on the other side of the fence' people might not see so much green when they get a taste of what the NFL is all about.

CFL fans are passionately loyal to the league because they care more about the game than spectacle or glitz. We know that something special will be lost forever if the league is destroyed. We want football for all Canadians, and to leave it in better shape than we found it for future Canadians. The NFL can't deliver any of those things for Canada.

We don't want to be the generation that 'dropped the ball'.

during my stay in Toronto, attended 2 or 3 Argos games, I really had a great time, the attendance wasnt huge, but enough to make some noise (something like 25,000). And for the ticket prices I think I had a great value for my money. Plus the 3 down rule, against the 4 downs in the NFL gives the game some more speed.

Okay, time for those Bills pics!

On a -12c day, 52,134 paid attendance out of 54,000 seat capacity for the first regular season NFL game in Canada. Right around the corner from where the Raptors also filled the Air Canada Centre. Odd for a city that apparently does not watch football, or basketball! ;) Great game and looked like a lot of fun.

Buffalo Bills

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z118/kuquito/billsinto.jpg

Saturday January 17th, 2009

Monster Jam

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z118/kuquito/monsterjam-1.jpg

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z118/kuquito/maadusa2.jpg

Source : http://www.pbase.com/mfanjoy/

http://www.pbase.com/mfanjoy/image/59141638.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/mfanjoy/image/59141673.jpg

Guys its about the stadium ;)

Guys its about the stadium ;)

We have a skybar section
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15

^^ Fair enough. It touches on a very raw nerve in this country, but I'll leave it alone.

www.sercan.de has said twice that this thread is not for that discussion. I doubt if it is a good idea for everyone to keep ignoring what he has said!

www.sercan.de has said twice that this thread is not for that discussion. I doubt if it is a good idea for everyone to keep ignoring what he has said!

The problem lies in that people tend not to read a few pages of a thread before they comment. They respond to one post. They aren't going to be aware of a request to refrain from certain related issues by one person.

Beyond that, I'd suspect that very few people know that we're only allowed to talk about the structure as it relates to architecture or urban planning. Most people will respect a request, especially if it's from the person who started the thread, but how are people to know that certain issues regarding a building are not allowed?

Is there a thread guideline posted that people can read? I haven't see one. It might be a good idea. I had no idea I couldn't talk about Rogers Centre's usage. I suspect that other people don't know either.

You can talk about the usage but not about rumpurs in the NFL or current games (like in other topics)

You can talk about the usage but not about rumpurs in the NFL or current games (like in other topics)

The situation with the NFL does pertain to usage as do other events that occur within Rogers Centre. Don't you see how this is open to interpretation? What about the word 'Skydome'? Is that permitted, or is that considered a political issue that deals with naming rights and corporate involvement in sport? I don't want to take away from the thread, but it's all very vague as to what is fine and what isn't.

You can talk about Bills to Toronto.
But not about how the franchises in the NFl works.
Than the threads starts to became more and more offtopic etc. (Sport thread)
The same happened with the wembley stadium thread.
Deleted more than 300 messages.
"England lost vs Croatia"
"Yeah Croatia is the best
"England won't play at Euro "
etc.

Remember when the Toronto Raptors played at the Rogers Skydome before the Air Canada Centre was constructed? The Skydome must seat up to 30,000 for basketball, but I don't know what the configuration looked like.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2130/1808952252_39e004f548.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2130/1808952252_39e004f548.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2384/2057511881_edbeb76393.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2384/2057511881_edbeb76393.jpg?v=0

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2329/2393110875_06295b5bc8.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2329/2393110875_06295b5bc8.jpg?v=0

The world's oldest professional football (gridiron) teams: Toronto busting through the Hamilton defense for a touchdown.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3080/2637325553_5dc3bf28c3.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3080/2637325553_5dc3bf28c3.jpg?v=0

delete

The world's oldest professional football (gridiron) teams: Toronto busting through the Hamilton defense for a touchdown.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3080/2637325553_5dc3bf28c3.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3080/2637325553_5dc3bf28c3.jpg?v=0

To bad they arnt popular and in the NFL.

To bad they arnt popular and in the NFL.

I private messaged you since the thread starter doesn't want any discussion beyond talk about the building and mention of the tenants. Here's another Ontario original, baseball:

A full house at Skydome to take in Canada's summer time sport
http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/wonder/structure/images/sky2_dome_1.jpg
http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/wonder/structure/images/sky2_dome_1.jpg

Luminato Festival
http://www.citynews.ca/itsyourstory/gallery%2FContest%20Sanyo%2F6_5_2007_11_13_luminato2.jpg
http://www.citynews.ca/itsyourstory/gallery%2FContest%20Sanyo%2F6_5_2007_11_13_luminato2.jpg

Some wrinkles in the Rogers Centre
FieldTurf are dealing some bad hops to Blue Jays infielders
28 April 2009
National Post

Scott Rolen likens the Rogers Centre turf to the fabled Boston Garden basketball court. When you build a playing surface in small pieces, the ball is bound to take crazy bounces, Rolen says.

The Boston Celtics' old parquet court, originally pieced together with 264 pieces of wood, famously contained warped spots where dribbles went to die. On the synthetic grass of Rogers Centre, baseballs can play cruel tricks on infielders.

"We have some Boston Garden parquet dead boards here," said Rolen, who plays third base for the Toronto Blue Jays.

Installed to great fanfare in 2005, the FieldTurf surface is starting to show its age, according to Rolen and his fellow infielders. Shortstop Marco Scutaro said he has encountered "bounces like you've never seen before." Second baseman Aaron Hill insists he should have snared a couple of grounders that he missed this season, but in the moment, he could be seen shaking his head and glaring at a spot on the turf.

"Something's going to have to be done about it," said infield coach Brian Butterfield.

Players and coaches are quick to add that stadium crews are doing everything they can.

"They do a great job," said reserve infielder John McDonald. "They put a lot of time and effort into that field. It's very much appreciated, but they've been dealt a difficult hand."

This is their hand: a playing surface built from approximately 1,350 trays of FieldTurf, taken apart and reassembled regularly throughout the year to accommodate concerts, trade shows and other events as well as baseball and football. Each tray is eight feet wide and 14 feet long. The synthetic grass sprouts from a blend of rubber pellets and sand.

Special machines and eagle-eyed workers collect the trays and stack them in storage for non-sports events, then put them back down and meticulously realign countless seams when the Jays return from a road trip. The wear and tear in such a process is obvious. The granular base can shift, causing uneven spots. Seams can loosen.

Kelly Keyes, the stadium's vice-president of building services, likens the job to laying an enormous tile floor. The trick, she says, is to re-install it time and again, with many of the tiles in different spots, while keeping the seams snug and the surface level.

"It's quite challenging when you have 400 feet and everything has to be perfectly straight," she says.

The Tampa Bay Rays also play on FieldTurf at Tropicana Field. Minnesota's Metrodome has it, too. Unlike the Rogers Centre format, however, those surfaces were installed in long, wide rolls, and they are permanent.

When FieldTurf was installed before the 2005 baseball season, it was hailed as a quantum leap from the rock-hard AstroTurf it replaced. The surface was softer and thus easier on players' bodies. Batted balls bounced predictably. It was not grass, but it was close, players said.

"It was great," McDonald recalled. "What we're seeing now is normal wear and tear. There's nothing we can do about it. It's not something that should be complained about. Both teams have to play on it. You just hate to see something happen at a critical point in a game."

Something did happen in the Jays' fourth game this year. With a runner on third, Detroit's Magglio Ordonez hit a routine roller toward third baseman Jose Bautista. As he charged, the ball veered to his right and rolled past him for an RBI single.

In subsequent games, and during batting practice when Butterfield hits ground balls to infielders, players started noticing more bad hops than in years past. More conversations about "dead spots" ensued.

"Last year I thought it played pretty well," Butterworth said. "I think this is the worst it has been and the most difficult to play on since we've used this stuff. It's not the fault of the grounds crew. There's only so much you can do."

Bad hops happen on any field, but it is easier for groundskeepers to groom natural surfaces and for fielders to develop intimate knowledge of the areas they defend.

"An infielder's biggest ally is being able to trust in that next hop," Butterfield said. "When you can't trust that next hop, you kind of start playing defence with a little trepidation. You don't know what's coming next."

Keyes, who oversees field conversions and maintenance, agrees that the field is "not ideal." But she said the surface has the blessing of Major League Baseball officials and their counterparts from the National Football League (because the Buffalo Bills are occasional visitors).

Where possible, portions of the turf stay in place for non-sports events. For the U2 concerts in September, turf will be removed to accommodate the stage but field-level chairs will be set up on the greenery. Keyes says chair divots bounce back within two hours. "It's a very resilient field," she said.

When the turf is restored, staff check every seam with special measuring devices and drop a bead of pellets and sand where needed, she added. When the Jays are home, "we actually walk every seam pretty well every day," she said.

Her staff responds quickly to concerns from players and coaches. "That's the best feedback we get, because it looks good when we put it down, but we don't know for sure until they're are out there and actually using it."

FieldTurf guarantees the surface for eight years. Keyes says she believes it will last that long.

"It's not ideal," she said. "It's like a car. It's not working the way it was at the very beginning because then it was under ideal conditions. But we're doing what the manufacturer specified. It's still a playable surface. And again, we're a multi-purpose facility."

Butterfield, of course, is focused on a single purpose. He says a major-league field should give true hops.

"At this level," he said, "you never want to see games turn because of a bad bounce."

Former SkyDome isn't loved the way it used to be
The Canadian Press
3 June 2009

What a majestic sight SkyDome was 20 years ago when its gates opened for the first time, 11,000 tons of revolutionary retractable roof shielding fans from the weather and never-seen-before amenities overwhelming the senses.

Coming to the first-of-its-kind facility from the old Exhibition Stadium was like leaving the dingy bachelor pad you were ashamed to have people over at and moving into a mansion -- it was a place to strut in, a place that said you had arrived.

People strode through the gates in record numbers, World Series and Grey Cups were contested there, the biggest bands rocked the house and everywhere business people marvelled at the bubble at the base of the CN Tower that was a licence to print money.

"We were at the forefront,'' said Paul Beeston, interim CEO of the Toronto Blue Jays who was the club's president and CEO at the time.

Alas time has not been kind to what is now known as the Rogers Centre, not so much through wear and tear but more in terms of perception. These days the building gets criticized more for what it isn't rather than appreciated for what it is, and it's seen in some parts as a dinosaur, a relic of the stadiums past.

Much of the blame for that belongs to Camden Yards, the Baltimore Orioles' baseball-only gem that opened in 1992 and triggered a revolution to retro-style ballparks that tapped into the nostalgia of the game's past.

As more and more teams have moved into similar new stadiums, each with its own quirks and charms, the generic, one-size-fits-all mould of the Rogers Centre increasingly lost its lustre. Marvel at the roof faded, and the building slowly turned into little more than a utilitarian venue that guarantees events will go on rain or shine.

Any appeal beyond that, seems lost after a few visits now.

"Politics is the art of the possible,'' said Paul Godfrey, the former Toronto Blue Jays president who was instrumental in getting the project started in 1984 as the city council's chair. "The possible at the time was to build the best baseball facility we could that could also accommodate football and other events.

"If you were doing it now would you do it differently? Sure. But it's just like houses. The houses they build now are a lot different from the ones they built 20 years ago.''

Hard as it is to imagine, the Rogers Centre is the ninth oldest building in baseball and, with the Minnesota Twins and Florida Marlins slated to soon move into new ballparks, it's set to slide further down the list. And while four other ballparks also have retractable roofs, no team has moved into a multi-sport facility since the Blue Jays did in 1989.

Things might have been different if Camden Yards had been built as a multi-purpose facility, something lead architect Joe Spears says was seriously considered by Baltimore's stadium authority, which hoped to lure back the NFL after the Colts left for Indianapolis.

But Spears says the Orioles pushed for their own venue, arguing that the stadium authority should build for the team it had, not the team it sought, and eventually that's what happened.

"Baseball is a pretty nostalgic game and the thinking between us, the Orioles and the stadium authority was that fans would embrace a building similar to the ones they went to with their parents,'' says Spears, a founding and senior principal of Populous who has worked on several other big-league parks, including Cleveland's Progressive Field.

"It's really a genuine place but it does remind people of the places they loved growing up. When it opened the other teams in Major League Baseball really took notice that this was pretty marketable.''

The Rogers Centre used to have that kind of pull.

The four-piece roof and its three moving parts designed by architects Rod Robbie and Michael Allen remains awe-inspiring, but things like the 33-metre-wide and 10-metre-high Jumbotron, centre-field restaurants (there are two, one mostly unused), and hotel rooms overlooking the field no longer capture the imagination.

The SkyDome at 20: Taxpayers still feeling the sting
4 June 2009
The Globe and Mail

It's incredible, when you think of it. Toronto is about six hours down the 401 from the fattest white elephant in Canadian history, Montreal's Olympic Stadium. The Big Owe stands as a concrete reminder to cities everywhere of how sports stadiums can lead to disaster for taxpayers.

But did that stop us from building one of our very own? Not a bit. Toronto in the 1980s was panting to make its name as a “world-class city.” The result was “the world's greatest entertainment centre,” the SkyDome, yet another example of the edifice complex run mad.

When a group of business titans and backroom boys led by Bay Streeter Trevor Eyton proposed building a new sports palace in Toronto, they swore it would be nothing like Montreal Mayor Jean Drapeau's colossal folly. In one sense, they were right: our retractable roof actually works.

But the promise that it could be built by private enterprise with little public money proved as false as Mr. Drapeau's claim that the 1976 Olympics could no more run a deficit than a man could have a baby. (“Allo, Morgentaler?”) The cost of the dome grew from the original estimate of $125-million to $278-million to nearly $600-million. And – surprise! – taxpayers were on the hook for at least half of it.

In 1993, the provincial government sold the concrete pile to a private company (chaired by Senator Eyton) for $150-million. It was sold again for $80-million in 1999 under the supervision of a bankruptcy court. Finally, in 2004, Ted Rogers and his Toronto Blue Jays snapped it up for $25-million, about four per cent of its cost.

The whole sorry saga is worth reflecting on as SkyDome, now the Rogers Centre, turns 20, a landmark officially reached yesterday. The first lesson is that places of mass entertainment, like hockey arenas and baseball stadiums, should never be built with or supported by public money. If a sports team thinks it can attract more fans and make more money by building a new stadium, let the team put up its own dough. Then its invariably wealthy owner carries the risk (and reaps the reward) of the enterprise.

In SkyDome's case, the suits who pushed the thing knew that they were being backstopped by government. So the builders splurged on a health club, a hotel and, yes, a retractable roof, vastly inflating the cost.

For a fleeting moment, it looked as if their subsidized bet might pay off. In the early 1990s, the Blue Jays alone were pulling four million fans a year to the dome. Today they are bringing in about half that many.

Other draws have tailed off, too. The Air Canada Centre attracts many of the pop groups and other acts that used to go to SkyDome. Basketball's Raptors are ensconced at the ACC and there is always talk that football's Argonauts might flee the dome, if they don't fold instead.

Although it still gets some big acts, such as the Jonas Brothers and Coldplay, coming this summer, it has been reduced to playing host to events like this summer's Canada Kabaddi Cup. (The dome's publicists call Kabaddi a “unique and thrilling” game of Indian origin and prehistoric antecedents that may have been invented as a way to practice warding off wild-animal attacks.) Overall, the number of event days at the dome is down from its peak of 302 in 1997 to around 200 today.

To give the place its due, the dome is still neat in some ways. The retractable lid dreamed up by Toronto architect Rod Robbie and Ottawa engineer Michael Allen is a marvel, opening or closing majestically in 20 minutes. The stadium's fathers may not have been able to do their sums, but they had the smarts to put the dome downtown rather than in deepest Downsview, helping enliven the city core on game and concert days. But it's a lousy place to watch ball, especially when it's half full and takes on the feel of a vast mausoleum (with overpriced beer).

If present or future owners ever come begging for more cash, pushing the usual line about vast “spinoff” benefits for tourism and job creation, governments should boo them off the field.

Time for Rogers Centre to start giving back
5 June 2009
The Globe and Mail

TORONTO -- It is no longer just about baseball. Instead, it is telling that on a weekend devoted to celebrating the 20th anniversary of the opening of the Rogers Centre, its primary occupant is looking for a president and chief executive officer who can mine some untapped revenue outside of the place.

In the words of the man who is spearheading the search, current Toronto Blue Jays president and CEO Paul Beeston, what he is looking for in his replacement is “a visionary.”

If the guy's more about Coldplay than double plays, well, that's cool.

“There's no question it's a three-part job,” Beeston said yesterday. “One of them is the Blue Jays. But you'll also have to deal with the [NFL's Buffalo] Bills potentially on two league games, and you have a stadium that needs to be filled as many nights as possible to generate revenue. You don't have to look too far down the street [at the Air Canada Centre] to see how to maximize revenue.”

Ask Beeston about the first thing that comes to his mind when somebody mentions SkyDome or Rogers Centre and he says: “The Blue Jays' home. And I don't apologize for that.”

But that's not enough any more. The stadium that has borne the Rogers name since February of 2005 – after the late Ted Rogers and his eponymous communications company purchased it for $25-million – needs to start walking double-time to keep in step with the new realities of its corporate ownership.

It is a profitable building, according to Beeston, but the next president of the Blue Jays will ultimately be the person who moves the place forward in the next 20 years.

When the Minnesota Twins move into their new facility next year, the Rogers Centre will become the eighth-oldest major-league ballpark, two years younger than the next-oldest, Miami's LandShark Stadium (formerly Joe Robbie/Pro Player/Dolphin Stadium).

Boston's Fenway Park (1912) is the oldest, and like four of the other facilities older than the Rogers Centre, it is a baseball-only facility (save for one-off NHL outdoor games). Only the aforementioned LandShark (home to the NFL's Miami Dolphins) and McAfee Coliseum (home to the baseball's Oakland A's and the NFL's Oakland Raiders) can be considered multiuse facilities.

So “trendy” is not a word one would use to describe the Rogers Centre. Yet, neither is it quaint. There's so much public money and political capital and bitterness housed within its concrete soul that it's doubtful it's going anywhere in our lifetime.

Beeston says there are ways of physically altering the Rogers Centre to create ticket scarcity for baseball – think slightly wider seats and larger concourses and aisles – and it is nuts-and-bolts issues like that with which Beeston's replacement will need to deal.

For example, Beeston says candidly that the current 40-hour turnaround time to change configurations is simply unworkable. In a practical sense, it means the Rogers Centre cannot be booked for major events in the months of October and November because the days need to be kept open for baseball and CFL playoffs. (Stop your snickering.)

A start would be to begin using rolls of artificial turf instead of plates.

Public perception is what it is, but Beeston rises to the occasion, saying that for all the whining, the Rogers Centre is a place that “flat-out works.” And that, frankly, there's no place else in downtown Toronto where 50,000 people can gather indoors to see a grand event.

True. And all this talk about revenue generation ought to resonate with baseball fans because it is clear that with Ted Rogers's death last December, the Blue Jays will need to do more to pay their way – and the building is the key.

Leave aside the aesthetic comparisons to the retro parks like Camden Yards.

Through the late 1990s, after the bloom of back-to-back World Series had worn off, the Blue Jays didn't own the facility. Coupled with the dollar-exchange rate, it left them poor cousins to most of their U.S. baseball counterparts because they did not have access to the same in-stadium revenue as other teams. And it was that in-stadium revenue that gradually supplanted TV money as the driving economic force in baseball.

The Blue Jays have, literally, been playing catch-up all along. And now it's come to this.

Happy 20th, Rogers Centre.

The thing I love about the SkyDome (Never calling it the Rogers Centre) is that it's unique. Most of the stadiums today are Camden Yards clones. SkyDome has a different feel. I just wish Rogers did more to improve the stadium to make it more fan friendly.

I admit, I still call it the Skydome, too! I just love the place, and heck, would never trade it for a permanently open air stadium. Not in our Northern climate.

People definitely take the roof for granted. Everybody wants an open air stadium for saturdays in the summer sunshine. Many forget that also means sitting through single digit temperatures with drizzle and a cold wind coming off the lake during spring and fall.

I guess they just don't like throwball, which makes sense......since Toronto is an immigrant city.

That's a very ignorant thing to say.... and I believe that's the same reason why the Maple Leafs sell out EVERY single HOCKEY game despite being one of the worst teams in the league?

To bad they arnt popular and in the NFL.

Was that necessary, maybe to the Americans there not but to Canadians the CFL is great, we don't judge the NFL so please don't judge our game.

Thanks

Why is it even called the Rogers Centre for, anyway? Why the heck does corporate sponsors who purchase naming rights of sports venues gotta take away those venues' good names? Shouldn't they have called this arena the Rogers Skydome?

Why is it even called the Rogers Centre for, anyway? Why the heck does corporate sponsors who purchase naming rights of sports venues gotta take away those venues' good names? Shouldn't they have called this arena the Rogers Skydome?

It's all about the money. Most stadiums have Corporate sponsors. But "Rogers Centre" in particular pisses a lot of people off. The SkyDome name was chosen by the public. Even worse, It was purchased by Rogers for next to nothing.

Well, in the end the power is with the people. Rogers may plaster their name on the side, but if won't mean squat if we keep calling it Skydome. I will never call it Rogers Centre. Rogers cares little about sports or our culture, they only care about money. The public chose the name 'Skydome', and Skydome it shall remain.

Should i change the title to:
TORONTO - Rogers Centre / SkyDome (52,230)

^ Just change it to "TORONTO- SkyDome (52,230)"

but off. name is rogers centre :)

From reading other people's comments on other Jays sites, the thing that people want the most is to change the exterior of the stadium, add real grass, make the seats bigger and add cupholders.

The exterior could do with some work. It would also be nice if we could buy Canadian beer there. They only sell imports. Ridiculous. Real grass would be nice, but the roof would be closed from November till April. I'm not sure if technology currently exists that could keep grass healthy without sunlight and fresh air. How would real grass indoors affect air quality?

The exterior could do with some work.
I'd say this and new, wider seats are all Skydome needs.

It would also be nice if we could buy Canadian beer there. They only sell imports. Ridiculous.

Not even Labatt, Molson or Moosehead? Wow.

I'd say this and new, wider seats are all Skydome needs.

Not even Labatt, Molson or Moosehead? Wow.

I didn't realize seat width was an issue. Regarding beer, it's just one more thing that pisses off fans. I couldn't bring my Canadian flag into the place during the World Baseball Classic because my flag pole (4 feet long) was considered dangerous. BS! You can't wear any clothing in support of the Argonauts that says 'NO Buffalo Bills in Toronto' even though the Argonauts are their primary football tenant. They will ban you.

Regarding the exterior, they have huge banners for the Blue Jays, and to my disbelief the Bills, but not the Argonauts. What a slap in the face! Skydome has become a very irritating, restrictive, and fan unfriendly place. I have nothing against the Bills, but they should be supporting their customer, the Argonauts, and oldest pro football team on the continent. They seem intent on running them into the ground instead. They should make Canadian beer available as well. Can you imagine going to Yankee Stadium and not being able to get US beer?

I didn't realize seat width was an issue. Regarding beer, it's just one more thing that pisses off fans. I couldn't bring my Canadian flag into the place during the World Baseball Classic because my flag pole (4 feet long) was considered dangerous. BS!
I know what you mean; you can't bring much of anything fun in any NA sporting venue anymore.

OH NOES, PATRIOTIC FLAG-WAVING TERRUHRISTS! :ohno:

You can't wear any clothing in support of the Argonauts that says 'NO Buffalo Bills in Toronto' even though the Argonauts are their primary football tenant. They will ban you.

Regarding the exterior, they have huge banners for the Blue Jays, and to my disbelief the Bills, but not the Argonauts. What a slap in the face! Skydome has become a very irritating, restrictive, and fan unfriendly place. I have nothing against the Bills, but they should be supporting their customer, the Argonauts, and oldest pro football team on the continent. They seem intent on running them into the ground instead. They should make Canadian beer available as well. Can you imagine going to Yankee Stadium and not being able to get US beer?
Yeah, it's a pretty sad spectacle, seeing the powers-that-be of Toronto sports pulling out the stops for a historically mediocre NFL franchise in the Bills (outside of the Marv Levy era) and in the process foresaking the proud, storied tradition of the Argos, which is why I've changed my stance on an NFL franchise being permanently located in Toronto. I don't mind the Bills playing a couple of games there a year as a token of gratitude to the contingency of fans which come from across the lake, but I think that's as far as they should carry out their relationship, and I ESPECIALLY don't condone the Bills charging three or four times the price of tickets in Buffalo. That's bordering on exploitation. Thankfully they've drastically lowered the prices from last year, but IMO they're still too high -- the average ticket should cost no more than about C$125. Nevermind the fact that tailgating, a ritual for many football fans (and especially those from Buffalo), is prohibited around Skydome.

Bottom line: the Argos deserve more respect than they've been getting from Toronto, and Buffalo deserves the same from the Bills.

And again, the beer policy sounds downright stupid. I can buy a Labatt Blue or a Molson Canadian at many sports venues here in the U.S., yet I can't get one at Skydome? That just...does not compute.

Rogers has no respect for the domestic culture either in Canada or in Buffalo. The bottom line is the only concern. History, culture, fans, a contending team, etc. are not of interest to them. They've run the Argos off a cliff, and will do the same to the Bills. Rogers is a powerful media firm. It's in their power to build the Argos back to prominence in Toronto. It's also in their power to make improvements to Skydome. They will do as little as possible on both counts.

Another thing that has come to my mind is putting up a statue of when Joe Carter hit his walk off WS home run.

These pictures come to mind

<http://www3.allaroundphilly.com/blogs/delcotimes/ryanl/uploaded_images/CARTPHU016009~Joe-Carter-1993-World-Series-Home-Run-Celebration-Posters-705340.jpg

<http://www.whyy.org/blogs/itsourcity/files/2008/10/bluejay.jpg

<http://majorleaguejerk.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/carter.jpg

Should i change the title to:
TORONTO - Rogers Centre / SkyDome (52,230)

Nah.. it is the Roger's Centre. Many of us still think of it as the Skydome, but it is owned by a new group now.

The exterior could do with some work. It would also be nice if we could buy Canadian beer there. They only sell imports. Ridiculous.

That is slightly misleading, is it not? The beer they sell is brewed in Canada, by breweries that were founded in Canada as far back as the 1700's. I am assuming you mean that foreign multinationals have bought out the biggest breweries in Canada like Molson and Labatt. Someone reading what you said may think they only sell imported beer like Grolsch.

I also want to see some improvements in the exterior. It was suggested a couple of year ago that they were looking at constructing a glass facade to cover the current drab looking exterior. I wonder what happened to that.

The Joe Carter statue suggestion also sounds good to me. We gotta have something to celebrate one of the most memorable sporting moments in this country and the sport of baseball.

I know what you mean; you can't bring much of anything fun in any NA sporting venue anymore.

OH NOES, PATRIOTIC FLAG-WAVING TERRUHRISTS! :ohno:




Sure you can, just go to an MLS game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5G3pGFVLOo

I've actually gone to see the Fire play in Canada, TFC fans are pretty decent.
If less pyromaniac.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miY9p3vKl30

That is slightly misleading, is it not? The beer they sell is brewed in Canada, by breweries that were founded in Canada as far back as the 1700's. I am assuming you mean that foreign multinationals have bought out the biggest breweries in Canada like Molson and Labatt. Someone reading what you said may think they only sell imported beer like Grolsch.

No, go to a baseball game and try and buy a Labatt, Molson, or any Canadian brand for that matter. I realize that the big brands are all foreign owned, but go sit in your seat and try and buy a Canadian brand owned by them. The guy will tell you it's US Budweiser or Coors. Go to the concourse where all the hot dogs, snacks, and booze is, and it's the same thing. No Canadian brands at all.

I've been to Skydome lots of times and have never ever been able to find a Canadian brand beer. No Molson, no Labatts, no micro brewery either. I've chatted with other fans in my row about it, and they think it's ridiculous as well. If you know where people can get a Canadian brand beer in there, it's a mystery to everyone I've ever asked.

Budweiser is NOT a Canadian beer, neither is Coors Light. They are both foreign beers like Grolsch even if they're listed as domestics. They are both US beers. It's like calling Coke a Canadian drink because they have a bottling plant here. I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who thinks those are Canadian beers.

but off. name is rogers centre :)

Toronto is hosting the 2015 Pan American Games and the SkyDome is going to host the ceremonies and the baseball events. The official website even refers to it as "Rogers Centre", but the Pan Am Games Committee probably will not allow corporate sponsorship for any Pan Am Games venues. So the Rogers Centre name will have to be stripped from the venue.

Air Canada Centre, on the other hand, is also a Pan Am Games venue and is hosting basketball events. That arena's naming rights will have to be stripped for the Games, also, but we can't easily come up with a alternative non-sponsored name for the facility.

I like Molson XXX
good stuff

Some bars in NYC label Molson and Labatt as domestic. Others bars I have been to call it an import like Guinness is. weird.

Toronto is hosting the 2015 Pan American Games and the SkyDome is going to host the ceremonies and the baseball events. The official website even refers to it as "Rogers Centre", but the Pan Am Games Committee probably will not allow corporate sponsorship for any Pan Am Games venues. So the Rogers Centre name will have to be stripped from the venue.

Air Canada Centre, on the other hand, is also a Pan Am Games venue and is hosting basketball events. That arena's naming rights will have to be stripped for the Games, also, but we can't easily come up with a alternative non-sponsored name for the facility.

I don't know if they will be able to change the name for the stadium. "Rogers" TM has not just bought the naming rights for the stadium ... it OWNS the stadium. Also, I'm not entirely certain but I do believe that the Rogers in "Rogers Centre" is named after Ted Rogers, and not the corporation Rogers.

Until they get rid of the fake turf this place will be below average baseball park.

Koatio: It is named after the corporation. If they do not get rid of the name altogether for the Pan Ams, at least change the word "centre" to "SkyDome". It wasn't originally designed to have the word "centre" in its name.

Toronto is hosting the 2015 Pan American Games and the SkyDome is going to host the ceremonies and the baseball events. The official website even refers to it as "Rogers Centre", but the Pan Am Games Committee probably will not allow corporate sponsorship for any Pan Am Games venues. So the Rogers Centre name will have to be stripped from the venue.

Air Canada Centre, on the other hand, is also a Pan Am Games venue and is hosting basketball events. That arena's naming rights will have to be stripped for the Games, also, but we can't easily come up with a alternative non-sponsored name for the facility.

Just name it Smythe Gardens or the Conn Smythe Arena or something like that, like it should been in the first place.

Until they get rid of the fake turf this place will be below average baseball park.

Actually apparently they installed some new turf for this year. It supposed to look a lot better. Still not grass but its better than no improvement.

Skydome from the west:

http://i50.tinypic.com/34yz47p.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/orangeprince/4671727583/sizes/l/

orgasmic. :drool:

a very urban image, you have highways, highrises, little park, stadium, lake, crowd, etc....

Manchester United vs. Celtic - July 16, 2010

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/wolrabp/4802929562/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/theleutners/4803801892/

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4803178071_b1b9535313_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/theleutners/4803178071/

I know what you mean; you can't bring much of anything fun in any NA sporting venue anymore.

OH NOES, PATRIOTIC FLAG-WAVING TERRUHRISTS! :ohno:


Yeah, it's a pretty sad spectacle, seeing the powers-that-be of Toronto sports pulling out the stops for a historically mediocre NFL franchise in the Bills (outside of the Marv Levy era) and in the process foresaking the proud, storied tradition of the Argos, which is why I've changed my stance on an NFL franchise being permanently located in Toronto. I don't mind the Bills playing a couple of games there a year as a token of gratitude to the contingency of fans which come from across the lake, but I think that's as far as they should carry out their relationship, and I ESPECIALLY don't condone the Bills charging three or four times the price of tickets in Buffalo. That's bordering on exploitation. Thankfully they've drastically lowered the prices from last year, but IMO they're still too high -- the average ticket should cost no more than about C$125. Nevermind the fact that tailgating, a ritual for many football fans (and especially those from Buffalo), is prohibited around Skydome.

Bottom line: the Argos deserve more respect than they've been getting from Toronto, and Buffalo deserves the same from the Bills.

And again, the beer policy sounds downright stupid. I can buy a Labatt Blue or a Molson Canadian at many sports venues here in the U.S., yet I can't get one at Skydome? That just...does not compute.

How 'bout... turning the Argonauts into an NFL-team?

How 'bout... turning the Argonauts into an NFL-team?

Technically they play different sports, so no.

What was the attendance for the United vs Celtic game?. Saw some empty places in the pics.

What was the attendance for the United vs Celtic game?. Saw some empty places in the pics.

Can't remember the exact number but it was supposedly ~30,000. Tickets were insanely expensive especially for essentially a tune up.

Technically they play different sports, so no.

It's not to late to change. :)
Or have an NFL-team and a CFL-team?

Kind of like european clubs where there is a soccer section, a hockey section, a basketball section... :)

Can't remember the exact number but it was supposedly ~30,000. Tickets were insanely expensive especially for essentially a tune up.

Just trying to get as much money as they can from the folks who only care about that game since they're the type very unlikely to attend the regular slate of events in that place.

That's all.

ACC and Rogers Centre among cleanest sports venues in N. America for food
Toronto Star
July 26, 2010

Toronto’s Air Canada Centre and Rogers Centre are among the cleanest sports venues in North America when it comes to food inspection, according to a survey by ESPN.com

The team at ESPN ranked more than 100 arenas in Major League Baseball, the National Basketball Association, the National Hockey League and the National Football League. The arenas were judged on routine inspections, and the scores were based on a percentage of vendors in violation of health requirements.

At the Air Canada Centre, home of the Maple Leafs and the Raptors, and the Rogers Centre, home of the Blue Jays, 0 per cent of their vendors had critical violations.

So what do the managers of the Air Canada Centre and Rogers Centre think of their well-scrubbed performance?

Bob Hunter, vice president of venues and entertainment for Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd., said the organization was thrilled with the ranking by ESPN.com of the Air Canada Centre.

Hunter said the arena management and staff have worked hard to keep food services at the “top of its game,” adding the City of Toronto’s food inspection program is renown for being tough and keeping standards high.

Over at the Rogers Centre, Richard Wong, senior vice president for Stadium Operations, also applauded its ranking as one of the cleanest sports venues, taking pride in its “uncompromising desire to deliver on, and exceed, the food safety guidelines established by the Toronto Board of Health.”

By comparison, Scotiabank Place, home of the Ottawa Senators, was the only other Canadian stadium to get a similar ranking.

In the U.S., the sports venues with a perfect score were: the United Center, home of the Chicago Bulls and Blackhawks; U.S. Cellular Field, home of the Chicago White Sox; Wrigley Field, home of the Chicago Cubs; Gillette Stadium, home of the New England Patriots; and Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum, home of the New York Islanders.

According to the survey, one of the worst offenders in the U.S. was Tropicana Field, home of the Tampa Bay Rays. That arena had a 100 per cent score of its vendors with critical violations. The inspection report noted that “several violations addressed dirty countertops, utensils and equipment. Although every report indicated a critical violation, all vendors met basic inspection standards to keep operating.”

At Sun Life Stadium in Miami, home of the Miami Dolphins and Florida Marlins, the inspection report indicated: “In June 2009, an employee complained anonymously that small insects and other debris were blended into frozen alcoholic beverages at a stand where equipment wasn’t being cleaned.”

Many of the violations at stadiums involved food that wasn’t stored at the right temperature. For example at the Jacksonville Municipal Stadium, home of the NFL’s Jacksonville Jaguars, 11 vendors were cited for holding hot food at temperatures below 135 degrees.

At the Joe Louis Arena, home of the Detroit Red Wings, “poisonous or toxic materials were stored atop items used to serve customers, posing a potential risk of contamination.”

At the Staples Centre, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, the Lakers and the Kings, “one stand dumped 9.5 pounds of sushi after inspectors found that it became too warm.”

In Denver at Invesco Field at Mile High Stadium, inspectors found fruit flies in bottles of whiskey; and at the Pepsi Center, home of the Denver Nuggets and Colorado Avalanche, inspectors found “phorid flies, sometimes called coffin flies, in a bottle of cognac.”

Here at home, one of the worst offenders was Rexall Place, home of the Edmonton Oilers. The report said 25 per cent of its vendors received critical violations.

SkyDome under construction

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/56/128206705_f0dd3acb84_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/reggies_pics/128206705/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/wawaduane/3225495193/

SkyDome in basketball setup

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Just name it Smythe Gardens or the Conn Smythe Arena or something like that, like it should been in the first place.

How about we just name the ACC "Toronto Centre"?

I can't believe that the Dome got one of the best grades as far as food cleanliness. I work there, and the rats and mice in the food concession stands are big enough to take your leg off. Can't imagine what the other stadiums must look like. As far as the domestic beer discussion goes, please voice your concerns to Aramark, since they are the outside company running all food/drink sales at the Dome. Man, I wish you guys could see the BS that goes on behind the scenes in that place. You would then see why the stadium is ran so poorly.

I can't believe that the Dome got one of the best grades as far as food cleanliness. I work there, and the rats and mice in the food concession stands are big enough to take your leg off. Can't imagine what the other stadiums must look like. As far as the domestic beer discussion goes, please voice your concerns to Aramark, since they are the outside company running all food/drink sales at the Dome. Man, I wish you guys could see the BS that goes on behind the scenes in that place. You would then see why the stadium is ran so poorly.

The whole list was bogus. The different arenas/stadiums were judged on local standards, so stricter areas had poorer ratings.

Take me out to the ball game, buy me some …
28 July 2010
The Globe and Mail

Associate dean, College of Management and Economics, University of Guelph

Given this week's exposé on food safety at North American sports venues, fans should be reaching for food safety reports instead of simply adding more condiments.

The report, conducted for the ESPN TV network, evaluated more than 100 sports venues where major professional events are held. These venues were judged according to routine inspection standards, and the scores revealed that a high percentage of vendors violate health requirements. The worst offenders are in the United States, with Florida faring the worst. Many vendors had dirty countertops, utensils and equipment, and unsafe food temperature practices – but none of these vendors lost their licences.

Let's face it: Food safety is not exactly a priority for sports fans. Taste is usually on the tip of their tongues, and these venues are not conducive to healthy choices: A hot dog, nachos and a cold one usually represent the meal of choice. But neglecting food safety is worse than a blind referee, and the consequences are potentially much more disastrous.

The modern consumer is highly demanding, and the food industry as a whole is coping with these demands. As such, markets are more fragmented than ever and all types of food distribution channels need to adapt. Regardless of a sports patron's eating priorities, however, food concessions at stadiums and arenas can't be granted immunity.

Yes, we need to appreciate the complexities of running a food concession in a sporting venue. These venues are required to manage challenges other food retail outlets don't encounter, such as operating according to a professional team's season. That makes employee retention more difficult, and training is challenging since most hires are temporary workers or students in seasonal placements.

Another problem is that, for sports franchises, feeding fans is almost an afterthought. From a strategic standpoint, their focus is on building a winning team and filling seats. As well, most sporting venues outsource their food services and don't have much operational control on how these concessions are managed.

But why don't the franchises also consider their fans as consumers? These fans, after all, are loyal participants in the rituals of sports entertainment, no matter how risky some of the conventions may be. Conversely, consumers are pickier about what they buy and eat because they make more critical judgments about value and safety. Given increased availability of information on the Internet, more fans are becoming consumers as well. So, to better serve and protect their fan base, the franchises should ensure that their patrons have access to safe food products that, until recently, they've taken for granted.

Compared with the U.S., Canada did well: No violations, for instance, were reported at Toronto's Rogers Centre or Ottawa's Scotiabank Place. But before we congratulate ourselves, we need to remember that these inspections were quasi-scientific at best. The study did not observe practices over time, and its emphasis was on American venues. Canada may be safer, but we need to make sure we're meeting standards.

The survey had other limitations. Given that the worst offenders were in the U.S. South, climate is clearly a significant factor. Cleanliness practices need to be more thorough when temperatures are higher – which gives Canada something of an advantage. Also, venues that play host to more than one professional franchise have an edge. Since these generate more business throughout the year, these venues have the capacity to retain well-trained employees. Finally, the study didn't consider that cities monitor food retail outlets. Thus, municipal regulatory bodies should consider food safety policies that would allow them to more closely monitor food concessions.

While this report has a questionable scientific value, it may prove to be a good exercise for sports franchises and fans who absorb more and more risk eating at these venues. Franchises, venue administrators and cities should take note that food safety practices do not vary according to the spirit in which food is consumed. The more newsworthy win may occur on the field, but it's a more important victory when everyone returns home healthy.

Another pic of SkyDome under construction

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1272/866368641_d150e8870a_z.jpg?zz=1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hhs/866368641/

^ Neat! Did they have to move the crane as the roof progressed?

I would presume so.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2595/3928480589_5aced62201_z.jpg?zz=1
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Some wicked shots.

One side of me misses the Ex....until you think of the wind coming off the lake, but I wonder if the skydome would have went again as scheduled if say plans were pushed back another few years. Would the new park have been in the mold of Camden Yards, which opened soon afterwards.

Video of the Opening Ceremony of SkyDome.

It's like something out of a Simpsons episode.

0e3f4sWNFh4

Video of the Opening Ceremony of SkyDome.

It's like something out of a Simpsons episode.

0e3f4sWNFh4

classic 80s. Love it!

Video of the Opening Ceremony of SkyDome.

It's like something out of a Simpsons episode.

0e3f4sWNFh4

to much Skydome,,,,,haha

Oh my god, that's horrid on so many levels.

Is soccer popular in Canadá?

Is soccer popular in Canadá?

Somewhat. It's not their biggest game by any means, but it's not a niche sport either, they get decent crowds out and lots of people play.

Somewhat. It's not their biggest game by any means, but it's not a niche sport either, they get decent crowds out and lots of people play.

I've watched some games from Toronto FC on ESPN BRASIL and the stadium was crowded. It looked like the Brazilian soccer championship.

English by Google Translator :)

It's pretty popular. 3 MLS teams (Toronto has been in since 2007, this will be the first year for Vancouver and Montreal next year). All are expected to get 20,000+ per game.

I don't care what anyone says in Toronto but Skydome (aka Rogers Centre) is a stadium that perfectly fits our needs. Toronto sports fans are lazy. I can guarantee that if there was an outdoors baseball park, many would be bitching about how cold it gets and complain about not having a stadium with a retractable roof. As for football, the stadium is not ideal for it but the Toronto Argonauts had TONS of chances to create an outdoors stadium for themselves that would perfectly fit their needs but they backed out every single time in order to return to the friendly confines of the Skydome. There was nothing stopping them from getting their own stadium.

TORONTO TO HOST HISTORIC FIRST-EVER ONTARIO EVENT AS THE UFC® HITS THE ROGERS CENTRE APRIL 30, 2011

UFC® FAN EXPOTM ALSO SCHEDULED TO TAKE OVER TORONTO APRIL 29-30

TORONTO, Ont. (Canada) – UFC® President Dana White has said time and time again that the UFC loves Canada, and that Canadians are among the best and most passionate UFC fans in the world.

Today, in recognition of this great Canadian passion, White and UFC Director of Canadian Operations Tom Wright, made the highly anticipated announcement that the Ultimate Fighting Championship® will host its first-ever event in Ontario as the UFC visits Toronto’s Rogers Centre on Saturday, April 30, 2011. The UFC also announced it will host a two-day Fan Expo at the Direct Energy Centre on April 29 and 30, rounding out what promises to be an historic and record-setting event.

“Canadians have repeatedly shown how much they love the UFC,” said White. “Fans in Ontario have patiently waited and it will pay off as this one will go down in the history books come April 30. I’m very excited – Toronto is going to break the record and host the biggest mixed martial arts event ever in North America.”

"This announcement has been a long time coming and we're thrilled," said Wright. "Ontario is obviously a key market as Toronto is one of THE MMA cities in the world," he added. “We’re very thankful to Premier Dalton McGuinty, Ministers Sophia Aggelonitis and John Gerretsen and the provincial government for their support in sanctioning and regulating the sport.”

The Rogers Centre event will represent Canada’s sixth UFC global Pay-Per-View event following UFC 124 in Montreal on Dec. 11, 2010. Montreal has also hosted three other events (UFC 83, 97 and 113) since April 2008 while Vancouver hosted UFC 115 in June 2010.

The fight card for the April 30th event will be confirmed at a later date while tickets for the event and Fan Expo will go on sale in the New Year. UFC® Fight Club™ members will have the opportunity to purchase tickets in advance of the on-sale date via UFCFightClub.com.

More information on the UFC Fan Expo can be found by visiting www.ufcfanexpo.com, or, for current UFC fight news, visit UFC.com.

I'm gonna try to get tickets for this (hopefully no exams during that time). It'll be awesome ... biggest MMA show in the world outside of those massive events that used to take place in Japan back in the day. The only thing I fear is that Dana White is gonna put together a shitty card just because he knows that the event will be a massive hit no matter what.

I'm gonna try to get tickets for this (hopefully no exams during that time). It'll be awesome ... biggest MMA show in the world outside of those massive events that used to take place in Japan back in the day. The only thing I fear is that Dana White is gonna put together a shitty card just because he knows that the event will be a massive hit no matter what.

I'm sure the main event will have either GSP or Brock Lesnar.

I don't care what anyone says in Toronto but Skydome (aka Rogers Centre) is a stadium that perfectly fits our needs. Toronto sports fans are lazy. I can guarantee that if there was an outdoors baseball park, many would be bitching about how cold it gets and complain about not having a stadium with a retractable roof. As for football, the stadium is not ideal for it but the Toronto Argonauts had TONS of chances to create an outdoors stadium for themselves that would perfectly fit their needs but they backed out every single time in order to return to the friendly confines of the Skydome. There was nothing stopping them from getting their own stadium.
". It's actually Argo fans that got the ball rolling for a dome in 1983, when they came out 10k strong to city hall demanding that they have a dome. If the skydome goes to the wrecking ball not only is it Toronto's version of the Big Owe (thank you David Peterson), but in another generation you'll be right back to where it all started.

UFC ANNOUNCES RECORD FIRST DAY SALES FOR UFC 129 IN TORONTO

THE CANADIAN PRESS
2/10/2011 6:25:31 PM

TORONTO -- Toronto's appetite for the UFC is proving to be near insatiable.

The mixed martial arts juggernaut enjoyed a record day at the box office Thursday, selling more than 42,000 tickets -- its entire original ticket block -- for UFC 129 on April 30 at the Rogers Centre.

And they went in the first day of a pre-sale, with some paying a premium of almost $90 to join the fan club that had first crack at the tickets for the UFC's first show in Ontario.

"I LOVE CANADA!" UFC president Dana White told The Canadian Press in a text message.

The previous UFC attendance record was UFC 124 in Montreal, which drew 23,152 to the Bell Centre in December. White often refers to Canada as the mecca of mixed martial arts.

"To say the response was overwhelming would be an understatement," said Tom Wright, the UFC's director of Canadian operations.

"In less than an hour we were pretty well down to some singles (tickets)."

It took the UFC even less time -- just seven or eight minutes after tickets went on sale to members of the UFC Fight Club at 10 a.m. ET -- to decide it needed to make several thousand more tickets available so there would be some left when the general public gets a chance to buy them Saturday.

On Friday, another pre-sale is set for those who subscribe to the UFC newsletter.

Wright would not detail the possible total number of seats on sale but said 50,000 would be "pushing it."

Full Article here: http://www.tsn.ca/mma/story/?id=353297

Yeah I was foolish to think that I'd be able to get tickets for this thing. Any one off sporting event being held in Toronto means ridiculously inflated ticket prices.

The UFC will likely run another event at Rogers Centre either this year or next.

Yeah I was foolish to think that I'd be able to get tickets for this thing. Any one off sporting event being held in Toronto means ridiculously inflated ticket prices.

In terms of event scale and with Canadian dollars, the prices for this UFC event are in line with the majority of events they have held since 2005. They make a lot of money for the gate, period. What they pay the fighters is another story.

The UFC really knows their market and how to maximize a live gate and PPV better than most anyone in terms of sports and sports-entertainment.

In terms of event scale and with Canadian dollars, the prices for this UFC event are in line with the majority of events they have held since 2005. They make a lot of money for the gate, period. What they pay the fighters is another story.

The UFC really knows their market and how to maximize a live gate and PPV better than most anyone in terms of sports and sports-entertainment.

I should have clarified. I was referring primarily to the resale market. As per usual of any event held in this city, it seems as if the scalpers gobbled up tickets as quickly as possible and are now selling it for ridiculous markups. I checked some common resale websites and there are tons of tickets on sale and non of the asking prices is even close to being even 3x the face value.

Also:

UFC 129 in Toronto sells out at 55,000 seats

TORONTO - UFC 129 in Toronto is officially a record sellout at 55,000 tickets and a gate in excess of $10 million.

Organizers started at 42,000 tickets but quickly put more on the market after the first rush of sales Thursday.

The April 30 mixed martial arts show at the Rogers Centre doubles the largest gate and attendance records in UFC history. It has also set a single-day event gate record for the domed stadium.

The previous UFC attendance mark was 23,152 for UFC 124 at Montreal's Bell Centre in December. The old gate record was $5.4 million, set in December 2006 in Las Vegas at UFC 66.

"UFC continues to set new milestones," UFC president Dana White said in a statement Saturday. "We've sold 55,000 tickets in our first stadium event in Toronto and we continue to take the UFC to the next level."

More than 40,000 tickets sold Thursday in the first day of a pre-sale to members of the UFC Fight Club.

The rest were snapped up Friday, in another pre-sale, and Saturday, when tickets were made available to the general public.

StubHub, a ticket reseller, was offering seats from $143 to $9,999 Saturday.

Tickets originally ranged in price from $50 to $800.

The Rogers Centre card will be the UFC's sixth in Canada. Montreal has hosted UFC 83, 97, 113 and 124 while Vancouver hosted UFC 115.

The main event features welterweight champion Georges St-Pierre of Montreal against Jake Shields. Mark (The Machine) Hominick of Thamesford, Ont., takes on featherweight champion Jose Aldo in the co-main event.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=AlLRjgl62LenfvflEfS3XyhShgM6?slug=capress-mma_ufc_toronto_sales-5931519

I hope GSP wrecks that pillow-fisted fairy-boy Shields

+1 :cheers:

The UFC will likely run another event at Rogers Centre either this year or next.

Not likely, but definitely.

Building a boulevard of world-class dreams
Bremner, a street that links some of Toronto's most famous landmarks, is in the eye of a hurricane of investment that shows no sign of slowing down
5 March 2011
National Post

Bremner Boulevard begins at Spadina Avenue and winds its way eastward, linking Toronto's most famous landmarks: the Rogers Centre, the CN Tower and the Convention Centre, on its way to its terminus at the Air Canada Centre.

The most popular lunch on the boulevard right now is a slice of pizza on a paper plate and a coffee in a Styrofoam cup from a canteen truck alongside one of the many holes in the ground, where future dreams are preparing to reach skyward.

The most popular attire is a hard hat and steel-toe boots.

It is rare that city planners have the opportunity to fashion a key urban thoroughfare from scratch, and yet Bremner is such a project: our boulevard of world-class dreams, where the average building is more than 30 storeys high and where, apart from the scrupulously preserved locomotive roundhouse (home to Steam Whistle Brewery and Leon's Furniture), the best example of architectural heritage is the CN Tower.

I spent the day on Bremner Friday, and it occurred to me that, quite by stealth, Bremner is becoming one of the most vital streets in town, especially now that workers have completed a new piece of lower Simcoe, linking Bremner to Front Street under the rail corridor.

On Bremner Boulevard, Toronto's hubris is infectious. Someday all this construction will end, but right now, Bremner is the eye of a hurricane of investment, where every pit in the shale is fertile ground for a new castle of glass.

"Luke Schenn, Tyler Bozak, Luca Caputi and Keith Aulie," rattled off one security guard I met on the strip, listing Toronto Maple Leafs players (Luca Caputi plays for the Marlies, the Leafs' feeder team) who, rumour has it, have bought condominiums on Bremner, a short walk to work.

The Toronto Maple Leafs are the flashiest occupants of the strip: They recently hung Toronto's biggest flat-screen TV on the west face of the newly enlarged Air Canada Centre, so that you can now watch Leafs or Raptors games from anywhere on Bremner.

Extending the brand is Maple Leaf Square, which opened at the end of last year. The building, just across from the hockey rink, feels nouveau riche, boasting a Le Germain hotel, offices for CI Investments and two 50-storey condo towers.

On Friday I rode the elevator up to the 35th floor of the south tower, 55 Bremner, for an open house of a 600square-foot condo. This, incidentally, is not enough room to swing a cat, and was listed at a cool $409,000, plus taxes and $375 a month in maintenence fees.

On the plus side, you can shop in the vast Longo's that has opened in the building's basement, a cheery place boasting stone oven pizza and prepared meals. On the minus side, after buying the condo, it is unlikely you will be able to afford a Leafs ticket.

Should you need to drown your sorrows, in one corner of the Maple Leaf Square lobby, a giant red hoop of light beckons: this is the orifice through which you enter Real Sports Bar & Grill.

Above the entrance, on vertical LCD screens, a constant stream of sports updates trickles by: "Carolina at Chicago," I made out, and "Rams close to deal with free agent" -information as decoration.

On the southwest corner of York and Bremner, excavators worked Friday loading a steady stream of trucks with earth for the hole that will become Ïce Condos, two towers' worth. Just west of there the first Infiniti is up (housing, in its base, some more affordable snacking options, such as Subway and a falafel joint), and a sign advertises Infiniti 3 rising to its south.

Across Bremer, PriceWaterhouseCoopers is erecting a new tower at 25 York Street; next to it will rise another office tower, and then, on the corner of Bremner and Simcoe, Delta plans to erect a new hotel, a city planner confirmed Friday.

"It shows balls," Jim, a security guard at the construction site of the Ïce Condos, said of the Bremner building boom.

"It says, 'This is us and we're not going anywhere and it can only get better from here.' ''

On Friday I rode the elevator up to the 35th floor of the south tower, 55 Bremner, for an open house of a 600square-foot condo. This, incidentally, is not enough room to swing a cat, and was listed at a cool $409,000, plus taxes and $375 a month in maintenence fees.
For 600 square feet? What a waste. Somebody is going to lose a lot of money here.

Some Pictures from Michael Cuddyer of the Minnesota Twins:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5022/5583667477_4343ee5fc7_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5225/5584278256_9ca18c473c_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5068/5583690399_cc08023861_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5103/5584283266_5406f4204d_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5105/5584306970_b2bec40055_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5059/5583718507_1f2d000e5f_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5108/5583720629_f35b1be6f6_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5294/5583722099_820a0d8e42_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5063/5584313876_1f4279130f_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5266/5584314538_a6950039dd_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5096/5583726259_90c06f7833_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5178/5583727203_0d9d5ded3a_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5221/5584316750_cd49afbf68_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5135/5583728607_99bd5a45e3_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5263/5583729865_b32c0cc7bf_b.jpg

Visiting Trainer's Room:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5181/5584283664_fb3f4c550e_b.jpg
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5186/5584314818_2a3b11d2d1_b.jpg

Visiting Weightroom:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5172/5584304936_0ae95cc3f7_b.jpg

Having been to a Yankee game up there, my biggest issue is with the field. The fake grass looks to fake. Surely there are better fake fields that can be layed down there these days.

It looks too fake because it is being constantly taken out and reinstalled since the stadium holds others events even through the baseball season. The artificial turf at Tropicana Field, which is the exact same product I believe, looks much better because I imagine they don't hold multiple other events that necessitate their removal. There has to be a way to somehow make it look more natural but I guess the grounds-crew does not spend much time on that.

I believe the Rogers Centre has a tray system for its surface. I noticed last year when I attended a game the football lines are still somewhat visible.

I really like the giant Rogers Centre, is beautiful, always there to go back up to the Jays.

It looks like I'll be coming here later this year to watch the Redskins play the Bills.

It looks like I'll be coming here later this year to watch the Redskins play the Bills.

Assuming the players are not locked out.

hopefully people will post some UFC 129 pics

the place sounds electric...and it's just prelims

Not my picture as I wasn't there lol:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5189/5676335022_e154bdfb18_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tamingnoise/5676335022/)
UFC 129 at the Rogers Centre (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tamingnoise/5676335022/) by tamingnoise (http://www.flickr.com/people/tamingnoise/), on Flickr

^^Was the stadium in its baseball configuration or CFL configuration during the UFC fight?

They can put it in whatever configuration they want depending on the event taking place. It certainly was not in baseball configuration considering that the 1st tier stand is fully extended out where as it would be the centre field wall otherwise (the area below the massive outfield screen in the right hand side of the picture).

BTW, here is a video that seems to have been taken from the 500 level:

xaMLQAOIpy8

Is UFC really that big ???? wow.... That looks like a WWF crowd there...

Is UFC really that big ???? wow.... That looks like a WWF crowd there...

World Wildlife Fund has events in stadiums?

^^ :lol::lol::lol:
Yes it's that big.
55K tickets sold in an instant with average price of over 200$ ;)

GS1dFWmDhe4&feature

Is UFC really that big ???? wow.... That looks like a WWF crowd there...

You mean WWE, sir.

Can I be banned from the Rogers Center if I ever refer to it solely as SkyDome if I am in its interior?

Can I be banned from the Rogers Center if I ever refer to it solely as SkyDome if I am in its interior?

Don't see why you would.

The North American debut of the International Indian Film Academy (IIFA) awards at the Rogers Centre in Toronto, Canada, may have been as expected in the awards handed out, but that's where the predictability ended. A whopping success, with Bollywood A-listers calling the city "a perfect home away from home", Saturday night's closing extravaganza was a classic case of love at first sight for both the stars and their loyal fans. (Link (http://gulfnews.com/arts-entertainment/celebrity/loud-louder-toronto-1.828304))

The glitzy awards gala celebrating the best in Indian film thrilled a sold-out live audience of 22,000 in the Rogers Centre; another 700 million viewers were expected to tune into the song and dance extravaganza. (Link (http://arts.nationalpost.com/2011/06/25/iifa-awards-bollywood-shines-in-toronto/))

U1Kn8XATnRc

July 1st 2011: Canada Day at the Ballpark, 45,000 in attendance to see the Jays lose to the Phillies 7-6.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/sp/getty/ca/fullj.e36615d254f9a30705496b565646cc63/e36615d254f9a30705496b565646cc63-getty-117867472.jpg
Source: Brad White/Getty Images via Yahoo! Sports MLB Photo Gallery (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/gallery/im:urn:newsml:sports.yahoo,getty:20050301:mlb,photo,e36615d254f9a30705496b565646cc63-getty-117867472:1)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6002/5894463711_e46db7e6cd.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/livethadream/5894463711/)
Canada Day in Toronto (http://www.flickr.com/photos/livethadream/5894463711/) by Live tha Dream (http://www.flickr.com/people/livethadream/), on Flickr

July 2nd 2011: Reigning Cy Young Award winner, former Blue Jay, and fan favorite Roy Halladay returns to Toronto for first time since 2009 trade. He received numerous standing ovations from the crowd of 44,078.

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/25/9c/1682079f48cb9449feecd35e759d.jpeg
Source: Richard Lautens of the Toronto Star (http://photogallery.thestar.com/1018633)

The two game combined attendance of over 89,000 is the largest crowd over a two game set since 2006.

Great Day!

Goodbye to the Pokemon bird!

http://www.nationalsportsbeat.com/images/logos/mlb/Toronto_Blue_Jays.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0922/pg2_bluejayslogo_300.jpg

just for reference
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6152/6172221606_c936657cd8_o.png

Apologies if I missed it, but wiki says that Rogers is going to be renovated for the Pan-Am Games. Is that true ? If so, to what extent ?

What was wrong with the old logo?

What was wrong with the old logo?

Nothing. The original logo was damn near perfect. The current logo is another story. The new one, while still not as nice as the original, blows the current mess out of the water. A long overdue change. :)

July 1st 2011: Canada Day at the Ballpark, 45,000 in attendance to see the Jays lose to the Phillies 7-6.
The two game combined attendance of over 89,000 is the largest crowd over a two game set since 2006.
The listed capacity for SkyDome here is 52,230, I don't believe that's for baseball. Is SkyDome still capable to accommodate over 50k in its baseball configuration? I can't recall the last time the Blue Jays, the 1st team to draw 4 million in a season, had a crowd over 50k.

Apologies if I missed it, but wiki says that Rogers is going to be renovated for the Pan-Am Games. Is that true ? If so, to what extent ?

Hello ?

Apologies if I missed it, but wiki says that Rogers is going to be renovated for the Pan-Am Games. Is that true ? If so, to what extent ?
I find nothing online about any upcoming renovations.

I find nothing online about any upcoming renovations.

Okay, thanks.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6173/6169219546_97b4f71fcd_b_d.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dcc_028/

How is the Rogers Cen-, er, Skydome gonna be renovated or upgraded now?

The only thing we need is real grass.

The only thing we need is real grass.

Now we're talking.

How is the Rogers Cen-, er, Skydome gonna be renovated or upgraded now?

I'd prefer if they leveled Skydome and started from scratch. Build an old school baseball only stadium with grass, then build a football specific stadium for 40,000 next to BMO Field.

Skydome is a terrible place to watch sports and is hurting both the Jays and the Argonauts.

Really. Temporarily move the Argonauts to BMO and have the Jays split time in expanded stadiums in Ottawa and Buffalo. Build em.

Who is going to pay to 1) Demolish Skydome 2) Build two stadiums as replacement? Even if Rogers pays for the new baseball stadium for the Jays, there is no way the Argos ownership will be able to finance a new stadium of their own.

Also, it is a fine place to watch baseball. The only complaint is that it is too big ... but of course that became a concern when the Jays started to suck bag and people lost interest in watching a perpetual loser. It does suck for football though, no doubt about it. The Argos should have built a stadium with Toronto FC when they had a chance but they blew them off when the Skydome offered them a cheaper rent. Short sighted thinking by the Argos ownership group is what is hurting them now.

Really. Temporarily move the Argonauts to BMO and have the Jays split time in expanded stadiums in Ottawa and Buffalo. Build em.


Buffalo's park was built to be expanded to MLB capacity, too.

What will appens if the Bills cames in Toronto.

They will play in the Rogers Cente or they will built an other stadium ?

I agree that the Argos need their own stadium, but with respect to the Jays I think a lot of Jays fans take the Skydome for granted and don`t really appreciate what they have. Everybody says they want an authentic outdoor ballpark but nobody in Toronto has ever had to sit in the cold in April or get rained on since the early 80s. There`s no rain delays or rain-outs. I like the fact I can go to a Jays game and it will always be comfortable. If the sun`s shining the roof is open. As a Toronto FC season ticket holder I`ve sat through enough cold, windy, and wet early season games to realize why the Dome was built in the first place.

The only complaint I have is that it`s too big but I think that problem could solve itself if the Jays could find a way into the playoffs for the first time in what seems like a million years. The uncompetitiveness has taken a far bigger toll on the attendance than the facility.

What will appens if the Bills cames in Toronto.

They will play in the Rogers Cente or they will built an other stadium ?

Toronto already has a football team, they are called the Argonauts. They play in Rogers Centre and do not currently have a desire for a new stadium. The Buffalo Bills are in the process of planning extensive renovations to Ralph Wilson Stadium and have no intention of moving.

What will appens if the Bills cames in Toronto.

They will play in the Rogers Cente or they will built an other stadium ?

The general idea was that if Toronto would host the Olympics (and therefore build a 80,000 seater stadium out of it), then they would apply for an NFL franchise.

Now that this is uncertain as such, Toronto could propose something like London. A stadium downsizable to serve say a 2nd CFL team or another MLS side, possibly remaining as an Athletics venue.

World Wildlife Fund has events in stadiums?

http://abstractsilkk.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/new_wwf_logo_by_wolfehpants.jpg

:lol::lol:

Hey everyone.

Does anyone know exactly when this UFC event took place?

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd51/Jericho-79/UFC-at-Rogers-Centre.jpg

This is the first time that I've seen the dome open for a sporting event other than baseball.

Whenever non-Jays events are hosted at Rogers Centre, the dome is usually closed. The dome was closed even for both Wrestlemanias.

If I remember correctly, the only other times that the dome was open were for a Bruce Springsteen concert and for all three U2 360 concerts.

That picture looks fake. When the UFC event was held here, the roof was closed.

Yeah something does look weird in that photograhpy

55,000 fans reacting in unison to this being shown on the jumbotron:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/603416/ufc129_11_aldo_vs_hominick_012_medium.jpg

was something I will NEVER forget :eek2:

As of January 20th, 35,000 tickets have been sold for the CCL match between TFC and LA Galaxy. Match is on March 7th. Great effort so far