Nice pictures. I like more with roof.

http://www.valenciacf.com/export/sites/default/contenidos/galerias/NuevoEstadio/012.jpg

http://www.valenciacf.com/en/NuevoEstadio/NuevoEstadioVirtual.html

I agree.

any news on when the construction will restart?

Render from a video:
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Nou%20Mestalla/Proyecto/Render01.jpghttp://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Nou%20Mestalla/Proyecto/Render02.jpghttp://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Nou%20Mestalla/Proyecto/Render03.jpghttp://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Nou%20Mestalla/Proyecto/Render04.jpghttp://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Nou%20Mestalla/Proyecto/Render05.jpghttp://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Nou%20Mestalla/Proyecto/Render06.jpg

The latest render is getting worse and worse. I do hate the global economic crisis. It ruined the all-time masterpiece.

what did they change?

The latest render is getting worse and worse. I do hate the global economic crisis. It ruined the all-time masterpiece.
Don't blame it on anyone else but on Valencia CF. Their very own economic crisis is the only reason for the standstill.

The latest render is getting worse and worse. I do hate the global economic crisis. It ruined the all-time masterpiece.

whats different from the origional design? looks the same to me

Excelente estadio y diseño, no tienen fotos actuales??

That render has minimal changes from the first draft. The changes are associated with better natural lighting to benefit the grass. It has nothing to do with the economic crisis.

The outside design of Nou Mestella is incredible.One of the best in Europe.

whats different from the origional design? looks the same to me

There are some changes, compare the renders on this page with the one on the fisrt page of the thread. Certainly looks kinda cheaper now.

when will the construction restart?

^^ probably when money comes in.

Then when do you think money comes in? lol

When they decide to transfer Villa :lol:

With us having 1 foot in next seasons CL, this could bring us the much needed revenue. Lets hope that gets started as I really wanna see this thing & can't wait to go their physically to see its inauguration.

the construction was supposed to restart in early 2010, hopefully it will be soon

ioEacWlsmkU

OiH_SCkAABo

Did you make it acid ? Thanx .

Oh no I didn't recorded it

wow, those videos look great. They look very illegal too.

When they decide to transfer Villa :lol:

He might be transferred to Barcelona. But I doubt that € 40 million is enough to restart construction. Valencia seems to have very serious financial problems. And no construction does not mean no costs. The intrest on loans for example is to be payed, and no income can be expected if the stadium does not open. Also some damage claims may be filed by several parties involved. :( All in all a sad situation for this beautiful project. :(

^^ Interest on what loans?? Surely if they had taken out a loan in the first place they would not be needing money in the first place and the stadium would be fully built today.

Why don't the government or local authorities give assurances to loan to Valencia backed by the plot where the current stadium stands on? Well, I think, the valuation of the plot would be enough to finish the remaining works with the bubble burst of real estate in Spain put in consideration.

Why don't the government or local authorities give assurances to loan to Valencia backed by the plot where the current stadium stands on? Well, I think, the valuation of the plot would be enough to finish the remaining works with the bubble burst of real estate in Spain put in consideration.
I assume that a substantial share of Valencias debts is already backed by the property of their current ground.

He might be transferred to Barcelona. But I doubt that € 40 million is enough to restart construction. Valencia seems to have very serious financial problems. And no construction does not mean no costs. The intrest on loans for example is to be payed, and no income can be expected if the stadium does not open. Also some damage claims may be filed by several parties involved. :( All in all a sad situation for this beautiful project. :(

Now we hopefully will know the answer :)

^^ I am still not optimistic about resuming the construction work. The crisis has hit Spain very, very hard. :(

and they are on Champions League next season (extra income)

The transfer fee is presumed to be somewhere around 42M euros, so let's resume the work right now and put it to stop when the cost reaches 42M :lol:

I assume that a substantial share of Valencias debts is already backed by the property of their current ground.

And how much worth will the current grounds have? Especially in this tough economic climate I do not think Valencia is the boomtown where gigantic sums of money are payed for the grounds. I hope I am wrong, but how much worth in Euro's would that piece of land really be? :dunno:

And what is the debt of Valencia right now? :dunno:

hopefully the construction will restart now that they have the money from the david villa transfer

I readed in a newspaper (De Morgen, Belgium) that they have to give half of the money from the transfer to a guy who supported Valencia CF financialy

The transfer fee is presumed to be somewhere around 42M euros, so let's resume the work right now and put it to stop when the cost reaches 42M :lol:

Sounds good :yes: :lol:

I readed in a newspaper (De Morgen, Belgium) that they have to give half of the money from the transfer to a guy who supported Valencia CF financialy

Which would be further proof of the terrible financial situation FC Valencia finds itself in. It is very sad, but I do not see the construction resumed any time soon. And the bill for finishing the project continues to rise. :(

I readed in a newspaper (De Morgen, Belgium) that they have to give half of the money from the transfer to a guy who supported Valencia CF financialy
That's true. This man made a 50 million € loan last year to the club and now this money has to be given back. They have transfered Villa to Barça and soon they will transfer David Silva to Real Madrid for 30 million €.

They're trying to cancel some loans in order to get another ones to finish the new stadium.

Read this if your interested in the economical problems to resume the stadium:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/may/03/valencia-brilliant-bluff-pays-off

How are they gonna try and qualify for the CL next season w/o all of their best players?

Its very similar to the one they want to build in Monterrey, NICE

How are they gonna try and qualify for the CL next season w/o all of their best players?

Exactly...

They will probably get another 1M€(?) for Hugo Viana possible transfer to Sporting :)

How are they gonna try and qualify for the CL next season w/o all of their best players?
They already qualified for the honey pots aka group stages.

Yeah, and you get around €25 mio for that but my guess is that Valencia need to get their hands on that CL money on a regular basis in order to survive.

And another question is...how they will survive in the group stage next season?

Valencia still has enough quality team for CL. Barcelona's offer, that is my opinion, was to good to reject cause 40M € for 28,5 years old striker is good money that you can offer for other quality striker, for example Roberto Soldado or someone else. We all know that David is world-class striker, but sale was good decision.
I hope that they will have happines in CL group stage draw.

My question is, what is with stadium? Works have begin? If not, when will works begin?

i heard that the council of valencia and valencia cf are working on a deal to get the construction restarted

In April 2010 the Spanish daily newspaper MARCA reported that parts of the unfinished and abandoned stadium would already be damaged beyond repair. I hope the stadium is not damaged beyong repair. It's either concrete cancer or a natural disaster has affected Valencia. Can't afford to lose a stadium like this to beyond-repair damage.

now that david villa and david silva have both been sold valencia might have enough money 2 finish the stadium

^^Unfortunately things are not that easier.

and what do you guys think about chicharito ??^^

and what do you guys think about chicharito ??^^

er........... off topic?? ^^

any news?

^^
No news. This stadium is dead

cant believe that construction has stalled for this long. Doesnt anyone there give a stuff any more? So much money put into it. now what?

Valencia are dead broke. What exactly are they meant to do?

Shit.

It is a shame that construction is halted but perhaps it will teach Spanish clubs one of the basic rules of economics: you cannot spend more than you earn. FC Barcelona (who just borrowed 150 million because they cannot pay their salaries any more yet want to upgrade their stadium) and Real Madrid (which is hundreds of millions in debt but still had money for Cristiano Ronaldo and Kaka) please take notice.

It is a shame that construction is halted but perhaps it will teach Spanish clubs one of the basic rules of economics: you cannot spend more than you earn. FC Barcelona (who just borrowed 150 million because they cannot pay their salaries any more yet want to upgrade their stadium) and Real Madrid (which is hundreds of millions in debt but still had money for Cristiano Ronaldo and Kaka) please take notice.

If memory serves, Valencia were very unlucky with their timing.

Didn't their deal to sell the Mestalla collapse as a result of the global economic crisis and weren't subsequent offers for the land far below that original offer?

Isn't that why Valencia ran out of money?

If memory serves, Valencia were very unlucky with their timing.

Didn't their deal to sell the Mestalla collapse as a result of the global economic crisis and weren't subsequent offers for the land far below that original offer?

Isn't that why Valencia ran out of money?

That and a 300 milion in the red.

I think they planned to sell Mestallla for 500 Mil. EUro. But after the crises nobody wants Mestalle or they just offer not enough money.

hopefully the sale of some players will help, how much money do valencia need to start work again?

That and a 300 milion in the red.

But the €300 million in the red is because of building the new stadium, isn't it?

They expected to be able to pay for the new stadium by selling the Mestalla.

If memory serves, Valencia were very unlucky with their timing.

Didn't their deal to sell the Mestalla collapse as a result of the global economic crisis and weren't subsequent offers for the land far below that original offer?

Isn't that why Valencia ran out of money?
They weren't unlucky. They were just cheeky. To fund the new stadium by selling their old dump on a inflated price is no sound business plan. Unsurprisingly it all collapsed when the bubble burst.

Any progress?

If the economic situation is so bad as it looks, whats the risk of ending like Mallorca, and getting kicked out of CL?

this is got to be the worst ever. a stadium stops construction as it runs out of money. look at it now. unfinished, concrete looks ugly when it ages. that's whats going to happen to this one if they dont do anything soon.

i have some questions about spanish bureaucracy and local politics around stadium development.

If valencia are paying for this stadium, how have they been forced to accomodate an athletics track?
did the city refuse to sell the land unless they did?
is that legal under spanish law to make up arbitary rules like that?
maybe the city gave them the land/paid for some of the cost?

general engineering question, how does concrete get damaged beyond repair in a new build? or is it marca being marca?

If it was cast in place and the ties were still exposed, unpatched, then water damage could become an issue, but seeing how its covered in precast decking and looks pretty well complete as far a that basic structure it shouldn't have any major issues. For reference Harvard stadium in Boston is all exposed concrete and hasn't needed much work in its 107 years, so this has got to be posturing unless something really weird happened.

i have some questions about spanish bureaucracy and local politics around stadium development.

If valencia are paying for this stadium, how have they been forced to accomodate an athletics track?
did the city refuse to sell the land unless they did?
is that legal under spanish law to make up arbitary rules like that?
maybe the city gave them the land/paid for some of the cost?

general engineering question, how does concrete get damaged beyond repair in a new build? or is it marca being marca?

It's a long thread so I might have missed it, but where did you see an athletics track in the plans?

i have some questions about spanish bureaucracy and local politics around stadium development.

If valencia are paying for this stadium, how have they been forced to accomodate an athletics track?
The stadium won't have an immovable athletics track, Mestalla will be a football stadium and the track will be set up if necessary and then disassembled.

did the city refuse to sell the land unless they did?
Not exactly... the city council aproved to change the status of the land from public to private with three premises:

- The stadium design could allow the assembling of an athletic track
- The club would have to buy and donate to the city some plots around the city with a total surface as Nou Mestalla's land.
- Money

is that legal under spanish law to make up arbitary rules like that?
I don't know if there's any law that forbids that change of status but I don't think neither the club nor the city have been harmed, but favored.

This is going to a long, long, loooooong story.

I've long been a fan of this project, and i've been really disappointed it's been stalled up to this point. But now, after the Champions League draw paired my team Rangers with Valencia, i'm gutted I won't be able to watch Rangers go to play in the Nou Mestella!

I really hope that Valencia can get their cash issues sorted out and finish this stadium to the original and fabulous designs, because i'm sure it'll be a wonderful sporting venue if it comes to fruition fully.

The stadium won't have an immovable athletics track, Mestalla will be a football stadium and the track will be set up if necessary and then disassembled.

i know. i think i know how its being accomodated, its similar to wembley right?

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6769/wembleyjh1.jpg

what i wanted to know is why.

Not exactly... the city council aproved to change the status of the land from public to private with three premises:

- The stadium design could allow the assembling of an athletic track
- The club would have to buy and donate to the city some plots around the city with a total surface as Nou Mestalla's land.
- Money

so in spain the local council decides on an individual basis whether public land can be developed?

over here we have plots divided up into 'brownfield' land and 'greenfield' land along with other types of areas, conservation areas and so on. only brown field lands can be built on, there are set laws dictating its sale. so the city cant make up stipulations like that.

I don't know if there's any law that forbids that change of status but I don't think neither the club nor the city have been harmed, but favored.

true. but if the club wanted they could make a case that the legal process makes no sense, has no consistency in its logic and is unfair to demand an athletics track. accomodating a track in any way compromises at least something. IMO this is fundamentally anti-business, would they say to an appartment building project that they also have to accomodate a tannary for some reason. anyway just my view.

either way no ones complaining, and we all have our own way of doing business, and yours seems to have worked for this project. how well its worked i guess we'll only know when fans who are used one of the best football stadiums in the world imo, react to acceptable but certainly not the best possible sightlines from some of the end tribunes.

the perfect example of what not to do... Spanish football league goes crazy with non conscious gigantic projetcs!

They want more than they can and well done -> economy crisis slaps it with numbers reality :lol:

is it possible to sell off the constructed parts of stadium? new zealand needs a national stadium

:lol:

Is this one on the World Cup bid? I guess if we won money will magically appear...or perhaps this money problems can be a problem to that same bid :bash:

no we cant even afford to be on a WC bid lol we do have some good stadiums but not a major national one.

They've sold out Villa and Silva and earned tens of millions of euros. Why is there no sign of resuming construction?

They've sold out Villa and Silva and earned tens of millions of euros. Why is there no sign of resuming construction?

Presumably because they're in so much shit financially, those 2 were only sold to pay some of the interest on the debt or whatever.

Profile on Nou Mestalla

1. Club : Valencia CF
2. Capacity : 73,200
3. Groundbreaking : 2007
4. Completion : 2070?

can't local govt or main govt bail this project out?

Spain, just like Valencia, is not in a good finantial situation so I´m afraid that spaniards will think that´s ridiculous spend the amount of money needed to finish the stadium...

Profile on Nou Mestalla

1. Club : Valencia CF
2. Capacity : 73,200
3. Groundbreaking : 2007
4. Completion : 2070?

:lol:
If Spain & Portugal won FIFA 2018. This stadium will be completion 2017

can't local govt or main govt bail this project out?

I'd guess they reason everything fell apart was that the goveremnt was backing up the contrusction somehow ala Real's training ground then could no longer afford to. If it was just a reduction in the land price I can't see it having an effect this big.

can't local govt or main govt bail this project out?
Why public funds should be donated to a private company as this football club is?

It would be nice if the local govt take over the stadium.
The stadium would be finished then (finally) and they have all the financial profits of the stadium (loan money from Valencia CF and other football games, concerts, atletic events,...)

Why public funds should be donated to a private company as this football club is?
Because the local govt would then contribute to promoting professional sports in the region, hold rights to the stadium and could actually benefit from it along with the club. That does work in some countries.

14734729
Septiembre 2010

Really good shots from outside. Good Vid.

any updates ?

Sigh just realized we should have been playing in this from last month. If only Soler & the economy didn't fuck up :(

Went past the stadium on a bus last week and there was no sign of any life going on.

what could make this stadium restart? Which is the owner?

I think they dont have the money to restart because of the crisis.
And as far i know Valencia have a huge dept.

dead project? definitively?
How can a stadium start the works and not finish it?? i never saw that before :nuts:

I just wonder.

By the time the economy recovers (if of course, it ever does), will the state of the concrete and such force them to just tear the thing down and start again?

What are they doing to protect the structure at the minute?

dead project? definitively?
How can a stadium start the works and not finish it?? i never saw that before :nuts:

Take a look at Croatia national team's "home" - Maksimir. Stadium, what looked really decent in past (http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2628/nkdinamozagreb10ku.jpg) started to being renovated in 1998., I think. And main sponsor of Croatia Zagreb Football Club (now Dinamo :bow: ) and biggest fan of Croatia NT, and sponsor of stadium renovation, FIRST PRESIDENT OF REPUBLIC OF CROATIA, dr. Franjo Tudjman died in late 1999 and renovation STOPPED. And since then, nothin happens (11 years). Stadium is ruine, embarrassment for whole Croatia. You still can see wood boards used during renovation, there is no roof so blue seats became white because of rain, facade and cladding falls down from walls. This is Maksimir NOW (http://mapy.pomocnik.com/img/photos/maksimir2.jpg). :(

So, it is just one example of started construction that isnt finished.

And for Valencia, this is just shame. Such a beautiful project is ruined. I feel really sad and angry with Valencia's city structres that allowed this.

the danger when you have a 100% private project! david villa was right leaving this club

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/dd/Valencia_CF.png/140px-Valencia_CF.png

Valencia CF

6x Champion:
1942, 1944, 1947, 1971, 2002,
2004

7x Cup Winner:
1941, 1949, 1954, 1967, 1979,
1999, 2008

3x UEFA Cup:
1962, 1963, 2004

1x UEFA Cup Winners' Cup:
1980

2x UEFA Super Cup:
1980, 2004

Construction started yesterday on Valencias new stadium

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/953/1163194666extrasfotosdeql4.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/101/294006056_8422df8b42.jpg

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9522/infografias4.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6468/infografias8.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8421/infografias10.jpg

:bash: what a garbage!! so good project

Hey I guess I still have hope. Couple of good seasons in UCL & we should be there. Great start this season, a thrashing of Manure would send a good msg.

the danger when you have a 100% private project! david villa was right leaving this clubVerily, publicly funded projects NEVER have cost issues or delays, right? And if they do, just bilk the taxpayers for even more money, right? Brilliant!

:ohno:

^^ I agree with you 100% !!

Verily, publicly funded projects NEVER have cost issues or delays, right? And if they do, just bilk the taxpayers for even more money, right? Brilliant!

:ohno:

"NEVER" but valencia is the example no? :nono:
read you again and "never say never"

I'm really disappointed as this is one of my favourite projects, and Valencia deserves a new stadium :(

valencia CF better qualify for the knockout rounds of the champions league at all costs. they losted to united today. the champions league revenue should help the club. sad that construction has stopped on the nou mestalla. what abt the spain-portugal world cup bid ? is the bid proposing to use valencia as a host city with the new stadium ? maybe they can get some money to finish the construction but thats if spain-portugal win the world cup bid

valencia CF better qualify for the knockout rounds of the champions league at all costs. they losted to united today. the champions league revenue should help the club. sad that construction has stopped on the nou mestalla. what abt the spain-portugal world cup bid ? is the bid proposing to use valencia as a host city with the new stadium ? maybe they can get some money to finish the construction but thats if spain-portugal win the world cup bid

why do people who don´t know english write about something they really don´t know or care about?? how could somebody write "LOSTED"???

^^ haha. i am an english speaker. obviously it was a typo. you must be a valencia fan pissed off at the result.
i "feeled" very bad for you. :lol:

I'm disappointed in the result, I worry that it might make Valencia more determined for their next 2 Champions League games against us! No matter how well we are defending in Europe, I am a little worried about the pace of Valencia, especially in the Mestella!

Previously on Losted...

The stadium is just one of many construction projects in Spain built on loaned money with very little or no security at all. The stadium is the taking the brunt of the credit crissis, pitty for the fans but serves politicians/execs right for not taking monetary responsability.

I'm disappointed in the result, I worry that it might make Valencia more determined for their next 2 Champions League games against us! No matter how well we are defencing in Europe, I am a little worried about the pace of Valencia, especially in the Mestella!
:lol:

No need for the laughing, it was a simple typo! :p

Verily, publicly funded projects NEVER have cost issues or delays, right? And if they do, just bilk the taxpayers for even more money, right? Brilliant!

:ohno:

You do realise he's french right? :lol:

If Portugal/Spain get the WC bid this stadium is schedule to receive one of the semi-finals match.

If Portugal/Spain get the WC bid this stadium is schedule to receive one of the semi-finals match.

Nice utopia :)

Looks good even without a roof and facade

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09ca0Fe0WG0fX/900x.jpghttp://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fLgc5Y7Jd5DH/900x.jpg

nice design, i liked it!

i don't understand why such a stadium is building inner the city! how to jugulate thousand of fans... I know that madrid is the example but it is an ancient construction. Nowadays a stadium is more like a simple arena! You can build hostels, shops...
It is at its origin a bad project! beautiful but not clever.

i don't understand why such a stadium is building inner the city! how to jugulate thousand of fans... I know that madrid is the example but it is an ancient construction. Nowadays a stadium is more like a simple arena! You can build hostels, shops...
It is at its origin a bad project! beautiful but not clever.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4121/4932271521_f0d31300b3_b.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bezembinder/4932271521/

i don't understand why such a stadium is building inner the city! how to jugulate thousand of fans... I know that madrid is the example but it is an ancient construction. Nowadays a stadium is more like a simple arena! You can build hostels, shops...
It is at its origin a bad project! beautiful but not clever.
This stadium will also have a hotel and a mall.

Ah?! In the stadium?

i don't understand why such a stadium is building inner the city! how to jugulate thousand of fans... I know that madrid is the example but it is an ancient construction. Nowadays a stadium is more like a simple arena! You can build hostels, shops...
It is at its origin a bad project! beautiful but not clever.

It is more rational to build a stadium inner the city, if it is connected by a big avenue, subway, bus and tram. Far from the city you need a huge parking lot, it's almost obligatory move in private vehicles, higher fuel consumption, thousands of polluting vehicles to move, etc. Within the city give people the option to not have to use private vehicles. Therefore it is much greener.

^^ and many fans (younger) has no car at all.. This way most of the fans can just walk to the stadium. I like stadiums in the middle of the city..

i don't understand why such a stadium is building inner the city! how to jugulate thousand of fans... I know that madrid is the example but it is an ancient construction. Nowadays a stadium is more like a simple arena! You can build hostels, shops...
It is at its origin a bad project! beautiful but not clever.

If the city lives with and for the club all day long, there s no reason not to build in the city...

It is more rational to build a stadium inner the city, if it is connected by a big avenue, subway, bus and tram. Far from the city you need a huge parking lot, it's almost obligatory move in private vehicles, higher fuel consumption, thousands of polluting vehicles to move, etc. Within the city give people the option to not have to use private vehicles. Therefore it is much greener.

And also, stadiums built within the cities become hubs of social activity, and help the bond between fans and clubs. Given the choice, every club would rather have a stadium in the city, if it faced no space or land price restrictions.

Looks good even without a roof and facade

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09ca0Fe0WG0fX/900x.jpghttp://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0fLgc5Y7Jd5DH/900x.jpg

Wow this look really nice! I hope that the proyect can done well in a short time.

I know that Valencia soccer team have a good amount of fans, but make a stadium for 73K its not too much? Even when the team have one for 55K and not every game its full...

^^ and many fans (younger) has no car at all.. This way most of the fans can just walk to the stadium. I like stadiums in the middle of the city..

Agree with you...
I don't know how the two stadium ( close to each other ) in Belgrade are but I remember seeing the picture with them looking quite central...
In Bucharest the Dinamo stadium is in the heart of the city, linked by subways, buses, trams in all possible directions and It's very nice for the supporters to have it like this. I don't really know if there's another stadium so central in a big city in Europe as is the Dinamo Sports Complex where the football stadium is, maybe only Besiktas Istanbul.
A stadium outside the city may be a pain in the legs especially if as you said, you don't own a car and the games are played late so you hardly catch something like a bus that will be filled up to a few times it's capacity.
GG Valencia for this thing and also a very good stadium even though I like Mestalla like stadiums with steep stands and a very great view from any part of the stadium from up high.

When the stadium is completed, it will be the best in Europe!:cheers:

When the stadium is completed, it will be the best in Europe!:cheers:

no no wembley still superior

Wembley is the best world stadium!

If the stadium is completed, it will be one of the best in Europe anyway

And this proyect is active?

Honestly they could had add some railings and install seats, and use the stadium for matches.

Did they find a buyer for the terrain where Mestalla is or anything?
Or are they just waiting for the prices to rise again so they don't sell it cheap?

Very nice stadium! I can already imagine the atmosphere in it. :cheers:

Wembley is the best world stadium!

Wrong! There's no stadium in this World to be compared with Camp Nou in Barcelona! Camp Nou is the best! Forca Barca! :cheers:

El Coliseo de Valencia...:)

Wrong! There's no stadium in this World to be compared with Camp Nou in Barcelona! Camp Nou is the best! Forca Barca! :cheers:

:bash:
I speak not in size but in quality!
And same in size, the camp nou not is the largest!

And let´s end here with that discussion...

how much money do they need to finish this stadium? It's build by city or Valencia CF?

Wrong! There's no stadium in this World to be compared with Camp Nou in Barcelona! Camp Nou is the best! Forca Barca! :cheers:

Camp Nou is old and rickety its not very nice to look at the only nice thing about it is that it has 100,000 seats wooptie doo

Camp Nou is old and rickety its not very nice to look at the only nice thing about it is that it has 100,000 seats wooptie doo

The only good thing about Camp Nou (according to you) is the capacity. Ok, so we forget about it's history, the magnificent view you can have from anywhere in the stands, the milestone its construction meant to stadium architecture. We also forget about how astounding it is when your are inside, the fact that it is the home of one of the worlds best football team (if not the best right now)...I think you have never been in Camp Nou, a magnificent stadium, biggest in europe, that I bet you'd pay to have it for your team.

Please, stop talking nonsense & respect. :cheers:

Camp Nou is old and rickety its not very nice to look at the only nice thing about it is that it has 100,000 seats

The only good thing about Camp Nou (according to you) is the capacity. Ok, so we forget about it's history, the magnificent view you can have from anywhere in the stands, the milestone its construction meant to stadium architecture. We also forget about how astounding it is when your are inside, the fact that it is the home of one of the worlds best football team (if not the best right now)...I think you have never been in Camp Nou, a magnificent stadium, biggest in europe, that I bet you'd pay to have it for your team.

Please, stop talking nonsense & respect. :cheers:

I kind of agree with both these statements.... if that's possible?!?
To sum up: despite having never visited myself, the Camp Nou is awe-inspiring, epic and without peers.
But it also appears to be a crumbling wreck with faded seats and hideous (for this day and age) lack of protection from the elements.
The other thing which shocked me was that the stadium was built in 1957. Thought it was much older than this.

EDIT: sorry, forgot this was Mestalla thread.

Asked more in hope than anything.

Any news?

Also, will Spain and Portugal's WC bid losing out to Russia affect this project?

Now whitout the posibility to host the world cup, what is the future of this stadium?

Now whitout the posibility to host the world cup, what is the future of this stadium?

According to the club president this failure might only affect the pace, but not the fact that Nou Mestalla will be ready. Eventually...

When the stadium is completed, it will be the best in Europe!:cheers:lmao...although, the design is really nice... a mix of PGE Arena and Allianz Arena.

They will build this stadium when they are done building La Sagrada Famila :lol:

new sagrada famila? why not :)

Pope XXIII will inaugure it :lol:

very nice stadium

nice stadium:cheers:

abandoned project please

It will be a fine fine stadium when completed, very intense! But perhaps this site should create a "Delay's and cancellations" menu? This will be in it for another few years....:ohno:
Still even if they play in it with the roof partially finished, is it under completion or complete? That will be the question...Perhaps if a team plays in a stadium that is not finished as per the plan, it should be consider as a failed project? They may play in an incomplete stadium for a decade or more..

Platini financial fair play is necessary.

Platini financial fair play is necessary.

Yes. And we Juventini will love it as Juve is 1 of only a few big teams that are already OK and in great shape.... Most are Screwed! Or will have to sell most of the players / will NOT be able to buy big new signings are offer the contracts... bring it on!:)

Yes. And we Juventini will love it as Juve is 1 of only a few big teams that are already OK and in great shape.... Most are Screwed! Or will have to sell most of the players / will NOT be able to buy big new signings are offer the contracts... bring it on!:)

The situation isn't as bad as you make it... at least half of the big clubs will be either unaffected or will do fine with slight adjustments. Bayern is if anything better off than Juve, Arsenal is doing fine as well. Barca & Real might have debts, but they don't have a structural deficit - they can pay regular expenses (including interest) from their income and still have a sizable profit margin. They might have to dial back a bit on big transfers and/or salaries, but with their higher base revenue, I'm pretty certain they'll still be able to put at least as much money as Juve into new players. Olympique Lyonnais is doing fine, though they're admittedly a bit less well off than Juve. Liverpools situation vastly improved with the new owners, though they'll be in trouble if they can't get back into CL soon.

Before interest payments, ManU is still the most profitable football club in the world, but thanks to Glazer, they are overburdened with debts, that's already putting them in a tighter spot regarding transfers regardless of financial fair play. However I do not think the situation is unsolvable, and I believe even if the club/the Glazers don't, the creditors will find a way to solve the problems before the club goes down the drain, they'd lose too much money otherwise.

Inter, Milan, Chelsea, ManCity and I believe Roma currently depend on their sugar daddys, they'll have to change the way they do business. It'll be interesting to see what they'll do.

The situation isn't as bad as you make it... at least half of the big clubs will be either unaffected or will do fine with slight adjustments. Bayern is if anything better off than Juve, Arsenal is doing fine as well. Barca & Real might have debts, but they don't have a structural deficit - they can pay regular expenses (including interest) from their income and still have a sizable profit margin. They might have to dial back a bit on big transfers and/or salaries, but with their higher base revenue, I'm pretty certain they'll still be able to put at least as much money as Juve into new players. Olympique Lyonnais is doing fine, though they're admittedly a bit less well off than Juve. Liverpools situation vastly improved with the new owners, though they'll be in trouble if they can't get back into CL soon.

Before interest payments, ManU is still the most profitable football club in the world, but thanks to Glazer, they are overburdened with debts, that's already putting them in a tighter spot regarding transfers regardless of financial fair play. However I do not think the situation is unsolvable, and I believe even if the club/the Glazers don't, the creditors will find a way to solve the problems before the club goes down the drain, they'd lose too much money otherwise.

Inter, Milan, Chelsea, ManCity and I believe Roma currently depend on their sugar daddys, they'll have to change the way they do business. It'll be interesting to see what they'll do.


your not completely wrong in your assessment, its good to see you are knowledgeable.. Higher revenues are good, (barca, real, ManU) but they are all hugely debt burdened..And while you are right that they can break even or perhaps small loss, paying all their cost + financial liabilities. They is one major issue that will effect them, they cannot borrow more money ( separate issue but there is some verbiage in the FFP manual, about building debt) because they de-value the club value and cost of finance increases.. so more debt costs even more than before. Its exponentially expensive. Too much risk... Thats why huge pressure will be applied to lower debt, otherwise these clubs have NO room to borrow money for players etc... Arsenal, Bayern and Juve can afford to borrow money (should they want to). Why did Barca sell their shirts deal? They had no choice! Not wipe out debt just cover some of it...
And the massive loss making clubs, they have no choice but to sell players, and more importantly cut the huge wage bills. Thats the only way forward.. This means they are weaker teams in future... They will not get as much from player sales either, as buying clubs wont want to pay big fees to desperate clubs. But The buying clubs can at least then offer reasonable wages over a period with healthy financial status...In a nut shell. this is how it will all work out. Inter, Milan, Chelsea, ManC, Roma, Real will all become significantly weaker.... Barca, ManU, & the Majority of most europeon BIG clubs will weaken slighty with the pressure...
Juve, Arsenal & Bayern will all Strengthen considerably... U only have to look at everyone's number to see the reality...And other aspects like future revenue predictions (with clubs like Juve having new stadium which will generate another 40 - 50M alone - and their stadium is self financed mainly with rights etc)..The future is looking very black & white..:)
The Swiss Ramble website has great links to all big clubs financial status etc..:)
I appreciate some intelligent debate, Its much welcome and a change to the brainless idiots that think their clubs the best in the world without thinking about anything logical. :cheers:

New Pictures
2012 - 2013 opening ?

^^
This stadium is long stoped builid :( !!

looks modern design but can we have some more images plz

Best Spain's stadium :)

With respect of money, how finished is this stadum?

Let's say 30% ? Just the concrete skeleton

In July 2011 there could be news: link (http://translate.google.es/translate?u=http://www.superdeporte.es/valencia/2011/01/02/hoja-ruta-nou-mestalla/115518.html&sl=es&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8)

Some pictures May 2010:
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Nou%20Mestalla/18-05-10/01.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Nou%20Mestalla/18-05-10/06.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Nou%20Mestalla/18-05-10/08.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Nou%20Mestalla/18-05-10/10.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Nou%20Mestalla/18-05-10/11.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Nou%20Mestalla/18-05-10/15.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Corts%20Valencianes/P1010489.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Corts%20Valencianes/P1010492.jpg
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn159/AvFenix55/Fotos%20Urbanas/Valencia/Corts%20Valencianes/P1010488.jpg

Valencia President Manuel Llorente Admits New Mestalla Project No Closer To Recommencing

New stadium project needs financing before construction can start again, admits Valencia president Manuel Llorente.

Valencia president Manuel Llorente has admitted that no further work will be carried out at the site of their new stadium until the club can source the funding to complete the project.

Construction on the new Mestalla ground to a halt in February 2009 when the economic problems that have crippled the club first came to light, and the site has laid empty since.

Marca reports that Llorente told the shareholders that it had been a mistake to commence the project initially without the appropriate financial backing in place, and subsequently no further developments will occur until the economic resources can be found.

Had the project remained on schedule, Los Che would already be competing in their new arena from the beginning of this season, but the actions of former incumbent Juan Soler, who ratified the initiative, have left the club in over €400 million of debt.

Llorente explained that when the construction does eventually recommence, it will take another 18 months before the stadium will be fit to host a match.
http://www.goal.com

At least some information and ealistic statement.

This might be a silly question but the stadium can stay like that indefinitely, no? It's not going to become unworkable before they start up again (whenever that is)?

^^
You would have thought so. Scaremongering to try and get it finished, perhaps?

I dont get why they dont use it right now. You can skip mounting the roof, install some fences and seats and plant the field. It shouldnt be be that expensive and be at least as modern as the old stadium which needs to be teared down.

The stadium right now, from the outside, looks astonishingly at the same level like Mestalla :lol:.
Of course, thats the outside. But I'm wondering how Valencia fans see the whole thing, I mean it's bigger and it will look ultra modern in the end, but don't they prefer the ol' Mestalla stands to these ones?

I dont get why they dont use it right now. You can skip mounting the roof, install some fences and seats and plant the field. It shouldnt be be that expensive and be at least as modern as the old stadium which needs to be teared down.
You clearly underestimate the expenses needed to get this concrete bowl match fit. Several €10 million are required even for a minimum of technical installations. That's an amount of money which Valencia CF seem to be unable to raise.

It's very sad, but the trith is that such a volume of funding is required to complete the venue that lenders aren't willing and able to take the risk. In more sure times I'm sure the banks would see how the club could at least increase revenues by finishing the move and thus begin repaying the loans, but in leaner times the margin of return to the club and the lenders is likely too low and at greater risk. Especially if they don't fill the stadium or maximize revenues through deep cup runs, European games, etc.

It would help if a new La Liga broadcast deal could be arranged that provided all clubs more money, and as such I wouldn't be surprised if everyone used this story as an example of why Real and Barca must surrender their exlusivity.

At the least, however, once the economy does improve the club can know they're this much closer to getting new home. Not like they'll simply tear it down.

You clearly underestimate the expenses needed to get this concrete bowl match fit. Several €10 million are required even for a minimum of technical installations. That's an amount of money which Valencia CF seem to be unable to raise.
What a desaster. What about the 320 Million for the old ground? What have they done with that?

It would help if a new La Liga broadcast deal could be arranged that provided all clubs more money, and as such I wouldn't be surprised if everyone used this story as an example of why Real and Barca must surrender their exlusivity.
Could you explain that? In germany the broacast income is devided very fair on all clubs regarding their rank on the table.

Could you explain that? In germany the broacast income is devided very fair on all clubs regarding their rank on the table.

I believe Spain is similar to Italy.. Individual clubs negotiate their own TV deals.. Hence Barc, RM & JUve are top 3 earners in the world from broadcasting.. I know Italy has some changes coming next year, but nothing that will come close to evenly distributing TV revenue.. It will still be massively favouring big clubs.. Spain similar i think... spread of fan base and size of fan base has an effect on how much a club can ask from TV broadcast companies..

There are basically 2 ideas how to set this up: The traditional way, which is how it's done in England, Germany, France, the Champions- and the Europa League and starting next season, in Italy again, which is the league sells the tv rights and distributes the income to its clubs based upon some kind of key depending on sporting success, tv interest and/or fan support (mostly, the top clubs get roughly double of what the bottom ones get, I believe in Italy it will be roughly triple, though the kinks in their distribution still have to get worked out).

The other option is what used to be done in the UEFA Cup, in Italy between 2002 and 2011 and currently in Spain is that clubs sell the rights for their home matches. That usually means that the big clubs get a lot of money and the small ones almost nothing (I know that Real and Barca get more than 3 times of Atléticos income from La Liga broadcasting, I have no idea how big the difference to actual bottomfeeders is...).

There are basically 2 ideas how to set this up: The traditional way, which is how it's done in England, Germany, France, the Champions- and the Europa League and starting next season, in Italy again, which is the league sells the tv rights and distributes the income to its clubs based upon some kind of key depending on sporting success, tv interest and/or fan support (mostly, the top clubs get roughly double of what the bottom ones get, I believe in Italy it will be roughly triple, though the kinks in their distribution still have to get worked out).

The other option is what used to be done in the UEFA Cup, in Italy between 2002 and 2011 and currently in Spain is that clubs sell the rights for their home matches. That usually means that the big clubs get a lot of money and the small ones almost nothing (I know that Real and Barca get more than 3 times of Atléticos income from La Liga broadcasting, I have no idea how big the difference to actual bottomfeeders is...).

Also the other consideration is that only the biggest clubs with a very large and geographically spread fan base can have their own club TV channels (Man U for example). They can sell their rights to the TV giants like Sky knowing that subscribers will buy it, particularly if fans dont live close to that clubs home town... Ultimately bigger, wider fan base means larger TV income, which then has a knock on effect of bigger commercial sponsorship deals (shirts, stadium & advertising in ground) because more people / and more often will be watching...Fair or not... Its not going to change. A clubs success and history creates it fan base, so one might suggest its fair for the work, investment and effort a club has made of many decades of striving to be the best...
The only down side to this (such as Juve) is that clubs can make 5 times more from TV deals than ticket sales, so the club focuses less on the stadium experience / fans attending.. But at least this is now being corrected...:)

What a desaster. What about the 320 Million for the old ground? What have they done with that?
The old stadium is not sold yet, so no 320 million € :lol:

I'm guessing this is just the start of everyone in La Liga but Real and Barca desending into a finanical abyss, this stadium was sposed to be a move to break up there dominance but its ultiumately had the opposite effect.

Oh man, concrete rot in some areas of the stadium means exposed rebar, and that can be a severe problem if funding for the stadium is not found ASAP.

this is the only one for me, among all the proposed ETFE covered new designs and the ones under construction. Besides the wonderful facade design and the whole mass, the inner design seems having no exagurated wills of the architects, just closer stands to the pitch, and steep tiers. that is really good. the only thing i could nott understand is the arc formed ending of the highest tier. Why they seperated the last 7 steps, seems to me, meaningles, and seems having nothing to do with the total desing of the stadium. Just like in, Renzo piano's bari stadium, but what he did there was a worse example.

and sure old mestalla had one of the best athmospheres in europe and in the world may be, with tiers nearly 45 degrees inclined. one should get used to sitting at the top, other wise it should be scary. i dont know how i would feel if i was a valencia fan, it is a pity anyway even for me, loosing old mestalla.

Such a shame. Will this land/opportunity ever be available again? Valencia should just sell all their players and put it towards the stadium. Field 16 year olds next season, get relegated, start all over again. But don't let this marvel wither away!

/fantasy world

this is the better example for all the clubs which manage like rubbish their finance :bash:

This club in france would has been relegated in 2nd league

The good thing is with successive CL football & hopefully another few years of consisten CL footy, their would a stability with the finances & thereby funds available for this. I'd think early next year is when they can start building int again with a view to start the 13/14 season here.

But CL football is very important & hopefully the new TV rights will get the green light as unless that happens I don't see the monopoly being broken. Ultimately its the whole league which will suffer.

this is the better example for all the clubs which manage like rubbish their finance :bash:

This club in france would has been relegated in 2nd league

There wouldn´t by any liga (1st or 2nd or more down) ay more if they would aply Dutch rules.
Like I told before I don´t mind the rules, but I do mind the difference in rules from country to country, while they do have to compete for CL, money and players. Uefa (like Fifa) is a joke.
Anyone knows how much Valencia would need this stadium finished. I understood about 150 million...

Yea it's bizarr, last year here in the Netherlands a Professional Football Club HFC Haarlem went bankrupt, because they had a 1,8 million debt. At te same time clubs in England and Spain had debt of hundreds of million and they can still play in the Champions League and there National Football Association do nothing.

I hope the UEFA will put the Financial Fair Play in place

There's a difference between Haarlem and Real Madrid. If you have a turnover every year of over € 400m and your profits are between € 100m and € 160m higher then your expenses, you can easily carry a couple of hundred million debt without having any troubles whatsoever.

I don't mind clubs in debt but like skaP187 said, the differences between countries are huge. Clubs in Belgium, NL, Germany & France barely may have debt or they risk losing their licence while others are free to do what they want and have sugar daddies.

There's a difference between Haarlem and Real Madrid. If you have a turnover every year of over € 400m and your profits are between € 100m and € 160m higher then your expenses, you can easily carry a couple of hundred million debt without having any troubles whatsoever.

I don't mind clubs in debt but like skaP187 said, the differences between countries are huge. Clubs in Belgium, NL, Germany & France barely may have debt or they risk losing their licence while others are free to do what they want and have sugar daddies.

what you say is true but Real Madrid wouldn't have a license anymore if they were located in the Netherlands or Belgium

the modern football is the big killer of passionate football, cuz in the last year only spanish and english clubs are playing for the champions League title. while they do that with players from the Netherlands, Germany and Southern American players.

Cuz the English clubs would have been rubbish if there were no foreigners in. and the smaller countries are suffering from that.

cuz in the last year only spanish and english clubs are playing for the champions League title.

Inter.

And this year Schalke 04.


while they do that with players from the Netherlands, Germany and Southern American players.

And Portuguese.

Why is this one u/c? There's nothing happening there isn't it?

Why is this one u/c? There's nothing happening there isn't it?

Its not really complete or proposed either...

I tought projects that are on hold move back to proposed section. This one will never be finished.

Inter.

And this year Schalke 04.




And Portuguese.




iNter? Inter was a meteor in the Cl, anyone remember of them :lol:

nice

Inter.

And this year Schalke 04.




And Portuguese.

yea but the majority are spanish and english clubs schalke and inter are incidents you have incidents every year.

and oow sorry i forgot portuguese

Cuz the English clubs would have been rubbish if there were no foreigners in. and the smaller countries are suffering from that.

Yep. If you go back to the 70s and 80s, when English clubs couldn't afford foreign players, they were useless.


Some of the debt in the English game isn't really a problem. Man Utd are Arsenal both have huge debts, but both actually run at a profit.

Arsenal's debt was to build the new stadium, and that's managed fine.

Man Utd's debt is purely the result of the way they were bought out. They were not just going out spending millions they don't have on players, as some assume.


There are rumblings about financial irresponsibility though, throughout the professional leagues. Far too much gambling on success is going on.

Its not really complete or proposed either...

On Hold.

Yep. If you go back to the 70s and 80s, when English clubs couldn't afford foreign players, they were useless.

Oh yeah? Tell that to Liverpool and Nottingham Forrest fans!

Why don't we make one more section - on hold?

Oh yeah? Tell that to Liverpool and Nottingham Forrest fans!

Whoosh......!

I suspect that you need to switch your irony detector on!

yea but the majority are spanish and english clubs schalke and inter are incidents you have incidents every year.

and oow sorry i forgot portuguese

Talking about debts.... Schalke happens to be the cub with the highest debts in Germany, Dortmund the one with the second highest level of debts.

So even within Germany the issue of debts and financial fairplay still does exist, despite our stricter licencing processes and requirements in the league.

FC Bayern is a good example of a really wealthy and successfull German club. But they are to some point an exception because tey have a very beneficial history of being able to play in a large stadium for cheap.
(First for decades in the Olympic Stadium in Munich, now the Allianzarena which they share with the Club TSV 1860 München and from which they were able to buy the stadium shares for very cheap because it's nearly bankrupt and which pays them around 8 mio € per year for rent, that is - whenever they are halfwhat able to.)

Yep. If you go back to the 70s and 80s, when English clubs couldn't afford foreign players, they were useless.
Useless, my arse. English clubs were bloody dominant back then. They won the European Cup an unprecedented six times in a row and several other European trophies in the pre-Heysel era.

Useless, my arse. English clubs were bloody dominant back then. They won the European Cup an unprecedented six times in a row and several other European trophies in the pre-Heysel era.

You too?

Am I the only one who picked up on the heavy irony in Rev Stickleback's post??

You too?

Am I the only one who picked up on the heavy irony in Rev Stickleback's post??

Looks like it, yeah.

Looks like it, yeah.

But you do now agree, with hindsight, that what he wrote was intended to be heavily ironic?

But you do now agree, with hindsight, that what he wrote was intended to be heavily ironic?

not really, no. you obviously didn't understand the irony in my reply.

not really, no. you obviously didn't understand the irony in my reply.

Ha!

Actually, my first reaction was that your response was ironic. But it occurred to me that that might have been unfair. That's why I asked the question. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. You chose not to take it. Fair enough.

So you still really think that Rev Stickleback genuinely meant what he said? You still don't see the heavy irony in his pointed use of the word "Yep"? You still think that he was displaying ignorance about English clubs' record in European football in the 70's and 80's? That it was purely coincidental and unfortunate for him that he should choose this, of all periods, to illustrate his point? You don't think it far more likely that he knew precisely how successful English teams were at the time and that he was, consequently, taking the piss out of Dyl070_DH's post?

Okay. Each to their own......

is this a ghost stadium at the moment?

You too?

Am I the only one who picked up on the heavy irony in Rev Stickleback's post??

Irony is a rare sight in this part of the internet. The chances that the post was the consequence of ignorance is simply greater.

Some of the debt in the English game isn't really a problem. Man Utd are Arsenal both have huge debts, but both actually run at a profit.

Arsenal's debt was to build the new stadium, and that's managed fine.

Man Utd's debt is purely the result of the way they were bought out. They were not just going out spending millions they don't have on players, as some assume.

United actually technically made a huge loss on their last figures, and the year before only made a profit because of the Ronaldo sale. They have an operating profit though and their wages to turnover ratio is decent for the PL.

The debts are a big problem because the club is dependent upon continuing success to bring in the money need to surface the debt. Because income is dependent upon success, one bad season could see a black hole open up which may be hard to close without weakening the side causing further decline.

Like a house built on a floodplain or earthquake zone, they're vulnerable to shocks.

Irony is a rare sight in this part of the internet. The chances that the post was the consequence of ignorance is simply greater.

A quick search of Rev Stickleback's posting history shows that it is extraordinarily unlikely that he was unaware of the record of English clubs in Europe in the 70's and 80's.

United actually technically made a huge loss on their last figures.

Only because of the one-off restructuring of their debt - which incurred refinancing costs of £65 million.

Only because of the one-off restructuring of their debt - which incurred refinancing costs of £65 million.

The loss was £79m, so even taking out that £65m there is still a loss as far as I can see, which was the same the year before (ex. the Ronaldo money). Total servicing of the debt appears to be over £100m in 2010.

Camp Nou is old and rickety its not very nice to look at the only nice thing about it is that it has 100,000 seats wooptie doo

i still like the old wembley!

Camp Nou is old and rickety its not very nice to look at the only nice thing about it is that it has 100,000 seats wooptie doo

:nuts: It's classified 5 stars+ by UEFA

:nuts: It's classified 5 stars+ by UEFA

thats largely due to its capacity and historial relevance

The loss was £79m, so even taking out that £65m there is still a loss as far as I can see, which was the same the year before (ex. the Ronaldo money). Total servicing of the debt appears to be over £100m in 2010.

Yep. Still a loss. But not such a huge one.

And Chief Executive David Gill said that but for the restructuring and other one-off costs, profit would have been £25 million.

As it is, operating profit (earnings before interest, taxation, depreciation and amortisation) was over £100 million. And Utd have over £160 million cash in the bank. So still pretty healthy, despite the annual £40-45 million interest bill.

Anyway, I fear we've gone rather off topic! Better get back to discussing the New Mestalla!

It's the Sagrada Familia of stadiums! What's the record for lonest modern sustained construction project, anyway?

It's the Sagrada Familia of stadiums! What's the record for lonest modern sustained construction project, anyway?

The Dr Evil tower in North Korea started construction in 1987. Still under construction.

It's the Sagrada Familia of stadiums! What's the record for lonest modern sustained construction project, anyway?

Nice analogy! Though I'll be surprised if an unfinished New Mestalla ever earns the same iconic status that Gaudi's masterpiece enjoys!

As to the most drawn out stadium construction projects, Wembley seemed to take an eternity from demolition to completion. But, at the current rate, Zenit's new stadium in St Petersburg looks to be going for the title. Four years since construction began and it's still a mess, with only the rump of a bowl now recognizable. At least another two years to go on that one, I suspect.

The Dr Evil tower in North Korea started construction in 1987. Still under construction.

In Cologne they started building this gigantic Cathedral in August 1248 and just last week I checked and they were still working on it. :cheers:

thats largely due to its capacity and historial relevance
That's largely bullshit. The stadium simply fulfilled the infrastructural criteria set by UEFA. The criteria are outdated, as the ranking is, anyway. So back to Valencia...

man u's value is roughly 3 times it's debt so it's not a huge issue for them tbh. Plus they have the ability to pay it off if the owners wanted to.

Chelsea is a differant kettle of fish altogether, if Abramovich decided to quit chelsea and wanted his "loans" paid back Chelsea would go bankrupt rather quickly.

man u's value is roughly 3 times it's debt so it's not a huge issue for them tbh. Plus they have the ability to pay it off if the owners wanted to.

Chelsea is a differant kettle of fish altogether, if Abramovich decided to quit chelsea and wanted his "loans" paid back Chelsea would go bankrupt rather quickly.

Maybe so.

But it's a purely hypothetical scenario. Abramovich shows no sign of wishing to part ways with Chelsea and even less sign of doing so by demanding all his money back and leaving Chelsea in the shit.

It would be wishful thinking to believe that he ever will.

Yep. Still a loss. But not such a huge one.

And Chief Executive David Gill said that but for the restructuring and other one-off costs, profit would have been £25 million.

As it is, operating profit (earnings before interest, taxation, depreciation and amortisation) was over £100 million. And Utd have over £160 million cash in the bank. So still pretty healthy, despite the annual £40-45 million interest bill.

A CEO is hardly going to give a negative account is he? What about the previous year's figures where player sales were the only reason for a profit? These 'one-off' costs appear to happen every year (like 'temp' factors causing inflation). We still don't know how those PIK loans were paid off, they could have used a large chunk of the cash reserves, refinanced it and packaged it so it was 'hidden', shipping money off the club in small amounts (they do that as it is). The bond refinance gave the owners the license to take up to £70m out of the club iirc. Point being there is still a lot we don't know and I wouldn't listen to what Gill said tbh, it's in his interest to put a positive spin on events.

I know they make an operating profit/EBIT - I mentioned it - and said their wages to turnover ratio is healthy. However, that's vulnerable too. Despite only reaching the QF the club made between £60-70m in direct CL income (TV, prize and gates). Indirect income is probably pushing that to £80. If they had a nightmare season like Liverpool did recently, they'd suddenly be writing off £50m+ because the EL brings in, at best, around £30m and there would be a reduction in PL income (fewer televised games and less prize money). Meantime, costs would remain broadly the same. The club is hardly unique in this respect, but that's the point, football clubs are very vulnerable. More than half of the PL clubs are reliant on external money, such as loans (Wigan, Villa, City) or purchase of equity. The model is a complete mess.

For the record I don't think the club will go under or anything because the moment they become a financial problem for the Glazer's (which could easily happen) they would have no problem offloading the club to someone else and still make a very tidy sum approaching $1bn. As it is, they can continue using the club as an ATM for personal reasons (shown by them constantly taking out millions to pay for their personal legal, consultant and accounting fees) without affecting their own income, which isn't even great.

Anyway, I fear we've gone rather off topic! Better get back to discussing the New Mestalla!

You're right, terrible habit.... apologies (and I am generally interested in this stadium and club

PS Stamford Bridge is supposedly valued at over £1bn, so there is Chelsea's answer if RA ever left right there (move to a cheaper outer London site in W, SW London, where their fans are anyway)

any new image?

Why no new pictures?

If it´s on hold why do you want new pics? Go back on the thread ;)

If it´s on hold why do you want new pics?
To see the structure crumbling.

Sorry to stray here, but I couldn't let this go:
PS Stamford Bridge is supposedly valued at over £1bn, so there is Chelsea's answer if RA ever left right there:| Seriously, if that's true then good for them, but I cannot for the life of me see how that piece of property is worth 1B. Oh I get it, location and market area and all, but given the retrofit that would be needed to generate another, greater revenue stream other than football means the costs of such development would be sturdy. If anything it might cost 1B to redo the property, but there's no way the club would simply be able to sell the ground et al for that much.

- - - - - - - -

Back to this stadium, at some point I wonder if the government would/could help out under the guise of supplying some temporary employment. The club are frozen do to lack of cash flow, which the banks aren't interested in buoying. But as a community, I'd imagine they'd much rather see this completed and allow the overall redevelopment plans for both sites to move forward, right? Could they provide a loan as part of some economic development program?

Granted I don't know if something like that has already been used up by what's been built to date. I just know this is painfully close to completion and thus a sad sight to see lingering so.

Seriously, if that's true then good for them, but I cannot for the life of me see how that piece of property is worth 1B. Oh I get it, location and market area and all, but given the retrofit that would be needed to generate another, greater revenue stream other than football means the costs of such development would be sturdy. If anything it might cost 1B to redo the property, but there's no way the club would simply be able to sell the ground et al for that much

It's probably on the upper scale of estimates.

I don't see why it's such a surprise, Wembley cost the FA well over £100m just to buy the land over a decade ago. Wembley is based in an industrial estate surrounded by low-income residents 10 miles+ from the central London (I grew up there). Look at an aerial view of SB along with the Chelsea 'Village', it - like any stadium - has a large footprint meaning it is perfect for large scale residential development.

Think of One Hyde Park. The area developed on is far smaller than SB. It has fewer than 90 flats which compares to over 700 for the Highbury development (ok, that includes stuff outside the original stadium). They spent something like £1.2bn just developing the site. However, when the starting price is £6m and you sell just one unit for £130m....

I don't know what the conditions are in terms of height and density, but SB would probably squeeze in far more units than OHP given its footprint size and height of certain buildings, probably between 500-800. An average price of £6m (a fraction of OHP's average price btw) for 550 units is £3.3bn. Even at cost of £2bn for buying and then developing the site, that's a nice profit for a developer.

The only thing is Chelsea don't actually own the land.......

Back to this stadium, at some point I wonder if the government would/could help out under the guise of supplying some temporary employment. The club are frozen do to lack of cash flow, which the banks aren't interested in buoying. But as a community, I'd imagine they'd much rather see this completed and allow the overall redevelopment plans for both sites to move forward, right? Could they provide a loan as part of some economic development program?

Spain has a decentralised and devolved political and fiscal structure. I think more than a quarter of all government spending is handled by regional/local bodies. Many of these, especially city councils, are swimming in debt so their ability to help is limited. They have their own financial problems. The ideal thing would be the local council to buy off the old site (giving the club the funding needed to start work again) which they would later sell at a profit, boosting public income and helping out a community symbol.

Unless a) a new owner comes in; or b) They sell off the old site (which is where the problems started), I don't know how Valencia can solve this. The only other way is if the clubs dig their heels in and force the TV rights of La Liga to be sold at least partially collective, thereby boosting their income significantly. Even that may not be enough though.

no more photos?

Why do you want new photos? It'll only make us more depressed.

no more photos?

Of what? The cement crumbling?

On the continent city bureaucrats even manage to smuggle athletics tracks into entirely privately funded projects :lol:

but F it up in slightly different ways.

1. How much cheaper would this have been if the building envelope was accordingly scaled down into a purely football stadium, I'm thinking less materials, machinery & man hours?

2. How much cheaper without the elevating pitch?

3. How much cheaper with a much smaller roof, one that doesn't need to stretch from the back row of seats from an athletics stadium and the front row seats of a football stadium?

Now I'm not saying that this would've made the difference in avoiding bankruptcy (we all know why that was), but something to consider none the less. It's also important to consider that even if this was finished before the bubble burst the sightlines would still have been compromised severely, unacceptably so imo.

Why do city bureaucrats love athletics sooooo damn much, even when they have no right to interfere. Beggers' belief.

On the continent city bureaucrats even manage to smuggle athletics tracks into entirely privately funded projects :lol:

but F it up in slightly different ways.

1. How much cheaper would this have been if the building envelope was accordingly scaled down into a purely football stadium, I'm thinking less materials, machinery & man hours?

2. How much cheaper without the elevating pitch?

3. How much cheaper with a much smaller roof, one that doesn't need to stretch from the back row of seats from an athletics stadium and the front row seats of a football stadium?

Now I'm not saying that this would've made the difference in avoiding bankruptcy (we all know why that was), but something to consider none the less. It's also important to consider that even if this was finished before the bubble burst the sightlines would still have been compromised severely, unacceptably so imo.

Why do city bureaucrats love athletics sooooo damn much, even when they have no right to interfere. Beggers' belief.

What did I miss? Where do you have any news of the athletic function from?

Why do city bureaucrats love athletics sooooo damn much, even when they have no right to interfere. Beggers' belief.

Its a great way to justify the spending of public money given that athletics has a cleaner more amature image than football.

The end result has often been disasterious though I agree(although I don't see how it would have increased the size of the roof here, in athletics mode it needs less not more coverage), a big multiple stadium in a capital city can be somewhat justifed but in situations like Italia 90 it resulted in the public money being wasted on grounds that were quickly otudated.

what a shame...

Is there any chance that this stadium will EVERY be finished ?

shouldn't this thread go to "abandoned stadiums" ?
:mad:

With economic crisis i can't understand why this sort of infrastructure is built?

When you see the rest of euro zone members have to pay for the stupidity of greek governments mistakes...

Government of Spain should do something against that :bash:
In france we have less police and less administration services! And we have to accept that a part of our taxes go to greece and soon spain & portugal, ireland for irresponsibles management local authorities :ohno: which enables club of football to act like if we were in a booming economy

I hope the platini reform financial fair play will forbid such clubs to continue to participate to champions league.

shouldn't this thread go to "abandoned stadiums" ?
:mad:

With economic crisis i can't understand why this sort of infrastructure is built?

When you see the rest of euro zone members have to pay for the stupidity of greek governments mistakes...

Government of Spain should do something against that :bash:
In france we have less police and less administration services! And we have to accept that a part of our taxes go to greece and soon spain & portugal, ireland for irresponsibles management local authorities :ohno: which enables club of football to act like if we were in a booming economy

I hope the platini reform financial fair play will forbid such clubs to continue to participate to champions league.
You're also kinda right, but on the other hand how do you want economies to recover if the major infrastructure projects are halted?
You cannot create jobs just by clapping hands...and definietly not by stopping all construction sites just "because it's a crisis". Just imagine how many people would benefit from a construction project like this stadium....hundreds of jobs, tens of factories ( delivering the necessary materials and equipments), state collecting taxes, etc.etc....
And a club like Valencia could fill a big stadium anytime, so it's not like it's a useless construction which wouldn't make any money in the future.

@ mods and admins:

Wouldn't it be helpful to have another stadium category for halted/delayed and cancelled stadium projects or also failed projects, that have decided to be replaced with other alternative stadium concepts?

There one could discuss stadia like this one here for example where the construction has been stopped, or the New White Harte Lane project in London which has been stopped or put on hold during the planning phase shortly before the construction was intended to begin and whatever others.
There one could then also have threads with topics discussing the gerneral reasons why projects were cancelled, comparing reasons why specific projects or applications failed. What flaws or unsolved/unsolvable difficulties those various stadium projects have/had etc.
It might of course end up being a rather small category, but I believe it could be quite interesting and a good addition to the other categories and it could be uite helpful in sorting all those few threads that don't quite fit into any of the other categories like "proposed" "under construction" and finished" stadia.

@ mods and admins:
Wouldn't it be helpful to have another stadium category for halted/delayed and cancelled stadium projects or also failed projects, that have decided to be replaced with other alternative stadium concepts?

The tricky part is drawing lines between these categories. There's a lot of room for interpretation here. When an investor is constantly talking that 'yes, we're going to build it' than how can you make it abandoned/cancelled/on hold? Sometimes procedures take years with all sorts of stuff disturbing the process, Still - it goes ahead.
This case is rather unique in its scale...

in this scale ok but it shows how irresponsible could be people by deciding to begin a stadium without have all the money :bash:

@ Evil78-> i agree that stadiums construction participate to give jobs and create activities! we see this in ukraine, romania, france , poland and all the countries.

But how can a project could give jobs being stopped?! :nuts:

And with the time certain part of works (foundations or whatever) could need to be redone because 2 years have passed since the last action...

Then it is an irresponsible thing what happens today in spain with social movements protestations and the indecent millions of euros seen in transferts, construction of non finished stadiums...

Trust me if spain has some troubles in solvability, football will be affected beacause all the companies will suffer the reform that IMF will impose to spanish government.

If you make a policy where companies are obliged to pay more taxes , clubs of football will be concerned.

it's just indecent what we actually see.

i prefer to not winn and have a safe country on financial plan that what we are observing in greece and soon spain & portugal.

it's sad.

The tricky part is drawing lines between these categories. There's a lot of room for interpretation here. When an investor is constantly talking that 'yes, we're going to build it' than how can you make it abandoned/cancelled/on hold? Sometimes procedures take years with all sorts of stuff disturbing the process, Still - it goes ahead.
This case is rather unique in its scale...

Of course difficulties could occur here and there, but adding such a category would still be better and make it easier and clearer than the way it currently is.
Nou Mestalla certainly isn't "under construction" is it?
Is it empty and abandoned?
Is it "proposed", now that it has been cancelled or put on hold indefinetely, simply because there isn't enough money to complete it?
No need to say that it's certainly not completed either, is it?

Will it not be likely that if this stadium will ever be finished, it will end up looking different than originally intended? Will it not be the most likely option that the stadium plans are going to be changed to be able to get an operable stadium at all? Something along the line of cancelling a fancy exterior or maybe even the roof construction etc. altering the stadium plans in some cheap way that to make it halfwhat viable or operable.

And the New White Harte Lane has simmilar issues. The original plans have been declared as unviable and are currently cancelled. A new proposal hasn't been made yet. The current cancelled project plans are merely a basis for some kind of future proposal (which might of course end up being etremely simmilar or even identical to the cancelled project).

So currently in the "as is status" in the current outcome both projects are in some way failed projects.
Of not much better quality or achievement than other cancelled never built stadium proposals. And especially the Nou Mestalla probably doesn't even have a simmilar or better perspective than many other proposed projects, half finished as it is, because of the financial difficulties of the owner.
I believe a new category would certainly help reduce confusion and help making draw the lines between the categories easier than the way it currently is. Plus it would add a subforum with a new and interesting focus of discussing different failures and failed projects, the different difficulties and obstacles that occur when attempting to build modernize or expand a stadium.

And after all, despite the unique scale of this extremely large project and it's failure, there certainly are several simmilarities to other cancelled or delayed projects, aren't there?

by the time they going to have the money to finish this stadium its going to be too old and outdated so valencia not going to want to move to this stadium. :):P seriously i guess only way they can finish this stadium is spain hosting some kind of footballing tournament and i dont see any in the near future. so bad such a stadium will not be finished.

What is the opinion of Valencia CF supporters about this stadium? I mean, are they 'for' or 'against' moveing to the new stadium? Mestalla is still good stadium, and symbol of Valencia CF.

man u's value is roughly 3 times it's debt so it's not a huge issue for them tbh. Plus they have the ability to pay it off if the owners wanted to.

Chelsea is a differant kettle of fish altogether, if Abramovich decided to quit chelsea and wanted his "loans" paid back Chelsea would go bankrupt rather quickly.

I can clearly see that you know very little about football clubs' finance and economy my fellow :) Indeed, Abramovich is the biggest financial part of the club, but if he quit, I am sure Chelsea would cope with that. They would have big money cuts and probably fall a bit in the Premiership table, but don't forget that this is one of the most famous football clubs in the world and I don't think that fans and other sport investors would let such club (and cource of money) go bankrupt tho.
I guess they would sell the club to another guy like Liverpool did :)

How much money they still need to finish this new stadium ? ^^

If Valencia keep up the conveyer belt of talent - Villa, Silva, and now Mata - then they will eventually get enough €€€ to build this stadium. ;)

No worries, if it was designed to last for 60+ years when finished, I don't think 2 or 3 years sitting idle will not be so bad that it becomes structurally unsafe in that short time period.

So is the construction canceled, postponed, what is going on?

http://www.levante-emv.com/deportes/2011/07/29/club-confia-reanudar-obra-mediados-2012/828356.html

Construction is supposed to start again in mid 2012 apparently

http://www.levante-emv.com/deportes/2011/07/29/club-confia-reanudar-obra-mediados-2012/828356.html

Construction is supposed to start again in mid 2012 apparently

:banana::banana::banana:

Hmm. Construction will be resumed in almost 3.5 years since the global economic crisis if I remember correctly, based on the article above. I wonder if there has been such a case in the history of stadium construction. Anyway I eagerly wish the article is true this time.