I brought this up on one of the threads in the Midwest forum but thought it would be appropriate to really discuss here.

Did you ever notice what a disaster the North Shore/North Suburban/Northwest suburban area is for east-west traffic?

There is not a single major expressway that goes east and west through the region...all traffic (Edens, Tri-State, 53) travels north or south.

There are no good major streets that can take you east-west in the area. They are limited by the bridges that cross the Des Plaines River as well as constrantly being under construction due to heavy usage:

Dempster, Golf, Lake, Willow/Palatine, Dundee, Lake Cook, Half Day, etc....all disasters.

Do others in these three sections of suburbia (or those who have to drive in the area) agree that it was a pretty lousy job of planning that created this mess of no east-west highways????

Not really. There are a half-dozen good, wide state highways plus Lake-Cook Rd. running east-west every three miles or so. Palatine Rd. was built as a "junior expressway" for much of its length.

"Planning" recognizes that Chicago benefits by having a strong central city from which commuting generally radiates, rather than a polynucleated metropolis like Los Angeles crisscrossed by a gridiron of freeways.

Extending the Eden's Extention westward is possible is an idea, but those huge E-W avenues are very wide in length, they can hold traffic more so that they can do now.

Good point Edge, another area that could use an expressway is one that heads west from the 290 going through Wheaton-West Chicago-St. Charles.

Not really. There are a half-dozen good, wide state highways plus Lake-Cook Rd. running east-west every three miles or so. Palatine Rd. was built as a "junior expressway" for much of its length.

"Planning" recognizes that Chicago benefits by having a strong central city from which commuting generally radiates, rather than a polynucleated metropolis like Los Angeles crisscrossed by a gridiron of freeways.

Palatine is a disaster. It may be a "jr. expy"...but it has stoplights that negate any gain. actually, the express section is extremely short...from Sanders to Buffalo Grove Road

It once took me an hour and half to get to Lincolnshire from Highland Park using Half Day Rd. :( This was the moment when I forever converted to anti-automobilism.

It once took me an hour and half to get to Lincolnshire from Highland Park using Half Day Rd. :( This was the moment when I forever converted to anti-automobilism.

Half Day Road in Lincolnshire has offically been changed from a construction project to an eternal construction zone. If I am not mistaken, they started the current project about the same time Henry Ford's first Model T rolled off the assembly line.

You got to feel for all those Stevenson high school kids, each with two cars of his own, having to drive to campus every day!

Well, my experience on LakeCook road, when my parents drive it... almost no traffic after 8pm, everytime, when we are on it.

Do you guys think that Lake County is the largest county (in population) with only 1 interstate?

Well, my experience on LakeCook road, when my parents drive it... almost no traffic after 8pm, everytime, when we are on it.

Do you guys think that Lake County is the largest county (in population) with only 1 interstate?

nationally?

Yes?

Yes?

it could be worse. how about marin county across the Golden Gate from San Francisco with NO interstate highways, except for I-580 traffic being carried by the Richmond-San Rafeal Bridge from East Bay.

Ventura County, California, pop. 800,000. No interstate.

I brought this up on one of the threads in the Midwest forum but thought it would be appropriate to really discuss here.

Did you ever notice what a disaster the North Shore/North Suburban/Northwest suburban area is for east-west traffic?

There is not a single major expressway that goes east and west through the region...all traffic (Edens, Tri-State, 53) travels north or south.

There are no good major streets that can take you east-west in the area. They are limited by the bridges that cross the Des Plaines River as well as constrantly being under construction due to heavy usage:

Dempster, Golf, Lake, Willow/Palatine, Dundee, Lake Cook, Half Day, etc....all disasters.

Do others in these three sections of suburbia (or those who have to drive in the area) agree that it was a pretty lousy job of planning that created this mess of no east-west highways????

I think it is a blessing and obvious what the people in Lake County want. They understand what interstate freeways and tollways bring....more traffic and more decay. Again yiou show you true suburban stripes...lol.

I think it is a blessing and obvious what the people in Lake County want. They understand what interstate freeways and tollways bring....more traffic and more decay. Again yiou show you true suburban stripes...lol.

didn't know i had them...love chicago and the suburbs. chicago even more so.

Ventura County, California, pop. 800,000. No interstate. Though technically not labeled as an interstate, US 101 is an interstate for all practical purposes, at least until you get to San Francisco.

I think it is a blessing and obvious what the people in Lake County want. They understand what interstate freeways and tollways bring....more traffic and more decay. Again yiou show you true suburban stripes...lol.

Calm down. At the heart of any good city is a good system of roads. They don't have to be tolled or limited-access, but they need to carry traffic efficiently. This is a severe problem facing the growth of Lake County.

Anyways, I can't really think of a good solution to the problem. Studies need to be done to establish WHY traffic is so bad, and where all of the traffic is going to and coming from. I doubt that all of the traffic is converging on one single point. Commuter A might drive from Lake Zurich to Highland Park via Half Day, and Commuter B might drive from Park Ridge to Evanston via Dempster, but according to you, they both contribute to the same problem.

One single highway will only lessen traffic on maybe 2 or 3 of the E/W roads you mention.

The poor planning was made by the guys who thought the Northwest Corridor and the North Shore would never coalesce.

Though technically not labeled as an interstate, US 101 is an interstate for all practical purposes, at least until you get to San Francisco.

....where it becomes a street!

Calm down. At the heart of any good city is a good system of roads. They don't have to be tolled or limited-access, but they need to carry traffic efficiently. This is a severe problem facing the growth of Lake County.

Anyways, I can't really think of a good solution to the problem. Studies need to be done to establish WHY traffic is so bad, and where all of the traffic is going to and coming from. I doubt that all of the traffic is converging on one single point. Commuter A might drive from Lake Zurich to Highland Park via Half Day, and Commuter B might drive from Park Ridge to Evanston via Dempster, but according to you, they both contribute to the same problem.

One single highway will only lessen traffic on maybe 2 or 3 of the E/W roads you mention.

The poor planning was made by the guys who thought the Northwest Corridor and the North Shore would never coalesce.

Points all well taken.

Again the real problem: no east/west expressway loads major east/west arteries with traffic. Traffic is so heavy that these routes are constantly in need of repaving and reconstruction. The Des Plaines River severely limits the availability and even the access to the major arteries. East west roads are subject to bottlenecks: Willow narrows to one lane east of Sunset Ridge, Lake Cook's heavy traffic loses a lane westward between Milwaukee and 83, Dundee bunches up in the most intensely developed parts of Wheeling, Half Day is under permanent construction, Lake/Euclid can't handle the insection at Waukegan and narrows west of Rand.

Solutions are few. The best one I can think of (although it won't make a massive difference, but would help) would be more bridges crossing the Des Plaines on major roads. Unfortunately those major roads are not in the category of Dempster or Willow or Lake Cook and the local communities on either side of the river may not be able to accomodate that much increase in traffic.

The question posed was no interstate, which has a specific technical meaning.

Most populous counties with no limited-access, grade-separated freeways of any kind:
Sussex Co., DE (Georgetown) 177,000
Bay Co., FL (Panama City) 162,000
Monroe Co., IN (Bloomington) 123,000

Calm down. At the heart of any good city is a good system of roads. They don't have to be tolled or limited-access, but they need to carry traffic efficiently. This is a severe problem facing the growth of Lake County.

Anyways, I can't really think of a good solution to the problem. Studies need to be done to establish WHY traffic is so bad, and where all of the traffic is going to and coming from. I doubt that all of the traffic is converging on one single point. Commuter A might drive from Lake Zurich to Highland Park via Half Day, and Commuter B might drive from Park Ridge to Evanston via Dempster, but according to you, they both contribute to the same problem.

One single highway will only lessen traffic on maybe 2 or 3 of the E/W roads you mention.

The poor planning was made by the guys who thought the Northwest Corridor and the North Shore would never coalesce.

Not excited. Just didn't want to pussy foot around this "pro-highway" rally. Some of us are think freeways/highways make a city healthy and some of us feel that they can kill cities like we have seen over and over again historically in this country. So don't try thinking you will ever get either side to agree with one another. This has been discussed over and over again...and the sides have pretty much stated their points and supported them often.

And you are wrong :cheers:

....where it becomes a street!

And look how horrible that city is....."not". Ever noticed that the lower priced housing and the majority of bad neighborhoods in SF are along the freeways that do exist? Strange....how people can pay that much money to live in a place that actually has taken down freeways over the last decade. Strange how so many affluent people moved into Lake County and west and yet didn't FIGHT for freeways. And they are republican counties...and they have money and power. Anyone wonder why they didn't make freeways or more tollways? I am guessing opposition by those who live out there.

Hopefully they will consider fantastic inovative Mass Transit going east and west meeting up with the what 3-4 metra lines that fan over the area from north to northwest?

Points all well taken.

Again the real problem: no east/west expressway loads major east/west arteries with traffic. Traffic is so heavy that these routes are constantly in need of repaving and reconstruction.

Isn't this happening on all the freeways and tollways in Chicagoland. I have lived here 10 years and there have been huge interstate projects going on since I have lived here...so your point seems a little mute.

Solutions are few. The best one I can think of (although it won't make a massive difference, but would help) would be more bridges crossing the Des Plaines on major roads. Unfortunately those major roads are not in the category of Dempster or Willow or Lake Cook and the local communities on either side of the river may not be able to accomodate that much increase in traffic.

Such disregard for our forest preserves.....let's just pave them over and sale the land so we can build more strip centers along it.

I just feel like I am living the 1950's all over again in here.....interestates and how they have no negative effects on areas they are built through.

Freeways create more sprawal.

And look how horrible that city is....."not". Ever noticed that the lower priced housing and the majority of bad neighborhoods in SF are along the freeways that do exist?

what comes first...the chicken or the egg?

certainly the better areas of San Francisco along the north waterfront clear out to the Presidio are without freedways...but these areas had the wealth to fight them off; the wealth was there long before the freeway.

Besides, a freeway connection from the GGB to DT SF was the least important of the city's links to the rest of the Bay Area...the Bay Bridge, of course, handles East Bay traffic while 101's bayshore freeway is the absolutely essential link to the Peninsula....without this lifeline, SF is screwed...Marin's population to the north was far less in size so the lack of fwy hasn't been as much an issue.

Besides all that, 101 going south down the peninsula to SFO and SJ is relatively flat. There is not way that an expressway could have been built up and down the hills west of DT SF to the GGB.

That doesn't mean I disagree with your sentiments, 3rd. I love, for example, that in many ways Chicago is an unserved expressway city...vast areas to the east of the Kennedy are uninterupted by expressways to their benefit.

I would also not like to see the north sububan area overrun with expressways. I would, however, like one good highway going east-and-west to ease congestion and make for quick connections.

Ed - would, in your opinion, the planned extension of 53 northward to Libertyville, then eastward to 94, relieve some of the problem? Certainly from some of the roads on the north end.

Also, Chicago3rd, the 53 extension was quietly supported by many Lake County communities. It was Long Grove, which has dreams of becoming the next Lake Forest or Hinsdale, and several environmental groups that opposed and basically stopped the extension plans.

Slightly off topic, Today, my friends and I were on Cicero Ave today, going from I-290 toward I90/94 (we didn't want to head downtown and back out again at 3pm) and my friends complained the whole way thereabout, why isn't there a highway there. Well, there were a lot of traffic but was moving. Imagine if there was a highway there, then that place would be very congested and Cicero will become a suburban strip mall streetYay to Chicago for being an unserved expressway city.

Back on topic, when I visit my uncle up in Libertyville, Buckley Rd/ Peterson Rd (Route 137) isn't that congested even at 2pm until 8pm.

Well I had the unfortunate pleasure of being on Lake-Cook during rush hour. It took me an hour to go from the spur to 83, a distance of about 4 miles. I was horrible 2 cars would go through a light at a time only to barely make it though the intersection. Going east-west is a problem everywhere in the city. All the transit and highways are designed to go north-south with the exception of directly west with 290, blue and green line.

Well, there should have been an expressway along the Cicero corridor. The Crosstown Expressway (I-494) was cancelled when the late 70s "freeway revolt" coincided with changes in the Illinois political scene.

Today I think most of us regret that decision, which would have allowed a lot of truck traffic to bypass the Ryan/Kennedy through downtown.

Freeways create more sprawl.
The relationship between growth and freeways is not so simplistic, and it actually seems that freeways today follow sprawl much more often than they create it. In a landscape like northern Illinois with ubiquitous paved section-line roads every mile, there's plenty of road access to build new subdivisions in the cornfields. It's only after there are a hundred such subdivisions that the need for an expressway starts getting discussed, and it doesn't get funded until there are five hundred new subdivisions out there.

Do you think part of the poor planning for an east-west corridor here had to do with the neighborhoods having a higher average income compared to other places at the time and it would have been more difficult to get the right of ways or plow over areas because of who lived there? Or that they just didn't want a freeway in their backyard?

No. It was because there was no demand corridor.

All Chicagoland expressways were either radial routes to the Loop or bypass routes around the city--until 355 was built in the late 80s. An LA-style grid of expressways to allow people to speed from any outlying suburb to any other suburb was never part of the way anyone could imagine the region working.