Not sure where to put this so this seemed as good a thread as any!


From BBC:

Canal restoration gets go-ahead

Work is to begin on a £500,000 restoration project of a Leicestershire canal after funding was secured.

The money for the Snarestone phase has come from the East Midlands Development Agency (Emda) and is part of a £14m revamp of Ashby canal.

It will be spent on a nature reserve, new fencing and an improved turning point.

The next phase of the project which has been led by Leicestershire County Council is planned for Measham.

Councillor Ernie White, cabinet member for community service, said: "All we needed was the Emda money, and now we can get started.

"The Emda backing reflects the benefits of the project for tourism... and the local economy."

Any restoration of canals in our country gets the thumbs up from me - so i'm happy this has been announced! :)

Thanks BudWhite

From today's Mercury:


City's transport system 'one of worst in the UK'
Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 09:30

Comment on this story

Transport links in Leicester are among the worst of any major city in the country, a study has revealed.

Consultants said Leicester City Council must find millions of pounds more each year to achieve standards already enjoyed by commuters and drivers in places such as Cardiff, Sheffield and Glasgow.

Council leaders admitted the city was not up to scratch.

They said Leicester badly needed a new bus station, revamped railway station and a new form of public transport – such as trams – in the next five to 10 years.

Councillor Patrick Kitterick said: "We are aware we need to step up our game."
Click here!

The report, Transport Friendly Towns, said Leicester City Council had spent money on improving roads, but less on encouraging people to use public transport.

It said that significant funds were being spent on road improvements, such as the multi-million-pound schemes in Upperton Road.

However, not enough has been spent to improve rail or bus links.

The city council said it was taking action, with a bus station to be built in Charles Street or Humberstone Gate East within five years, to increase the number of buses able to enter the city centre.

A smaller bus terminal is also being considered at the railway station, to improve connections between buses and trains.

Coun Kitterick said: "Our number one priority is to build a bus station in the city centre.

"In Charles Street at busy times there is not room for any more buses. We would want a station to be built – ideally before 2014."

The railway station is also to be revamped, with a square, offices and shops. Work could start within five years.

Leicester City Council is backing plans for a tram link to the proposed Pennbury eco-town, which it hopes could be used to encourage more people out of their cars.

Coun Kitterick said: "You only have to look at Nottingham to see that once you have one tram route, it can quickly become two or three."

The report ranked the 12 largest cities outside London, based on factors including population, wealth, rail services and each city council's transport budget.

Only Bristol and Birmingham were considered to be worse.

The report was produced to help councils plan transport improvements.

The report's author, independent consultants GVA Grimley, said Leicester risked putting businesses off relocating to the city because of its poor road network.

Author Dr Jim Whelan, who is also research director at GVA Grimley, said: "In Leicester, they have not invested enough. If they do not look at it now, they risk being left further behind.

"If you look at Nottingham or Sheffield, significant sums have been spent on improvements there such as trams and to their railway stations.

"The delivery – or non-delivery – of the proposed schemes is likely to affect the competitiveness of these towns for the future."

See: http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/City-s-transport-worst-UK/article-721708-detail/article.html

Tell us something new! Even we could have said this, without a report.

The only answer given was the excuse of a new bus station which is really not needed, unlike a proper new public transport system. :ohno:

This council is beyond wonder sometimes.

Yeah the Council response was great wasn't it. Our main priority is to build a new bus station. We already have a bus station and it was only built about 20 odd years ago. Also it was refurbished only recently.

If the Council invested all the money they want to spend on a bus station and spent it on an interactive road system, that would be far better. Computerised modelling of the traffic light system and new directional signs would improve traffic flow. It is 2009 and there are possibilities to use software to predict traffic flows into the city from many miles out. Also all the main routes could be monitored and vehicles could have speed restrictions or diversions to keep all routes flowing steadily.

I find it amazing that this country invests money into putting a camera network up to catch speeding vehicles and bangs detection devices into police cars to find master criminals driving without tax or insurance. Yet there is no compulsion to use technology to keep traffic flowing properly? In Leicester at night time the traffic lights change to red, when there isn't a single other vehicle on the road. That is madness.

Traffic management would be far better than any public transport option, although the return of a tram system to Leicester would be welcome! One day the oil will run out, but chances are another way will be found to keep private transport running. Isn't it time that interactive transport management was looked at? Why can't Leicester be the first?

Lears City, that sort of thinking is dangerous and unacceptable in this country. Blasphemous in fact.

Guess you are right. I work with Data Warehouses and automation of tasks and predictive analysis. You can't apply such common sense approaches when politics is involved...

From BBC Leicester website today:


Cash to ease city traffic problem

Leicester has been awarded more than a third of a million pounds to spend on work to ease traffic congestion.

The city council has been given £277,866 for the current financial year and will receive £83,360 the following year by the Department for Transport.

The money is part of the government's congestion performance fund and Leicester is one of 10 cities in the country to receive cash.

The council said the money would be spent improving public transport.

'Major' plans

Leicester City Council's transport strategy team leader, Garry Scott, said: "This extra money is a welcome boost and will be used to begin to transform the city's public transport.

"The money will help us bring forward the park-and-ride site at Enderby and will help fund the park-and-ride bus service during its first years.

"It will also be spent on improving Humberstone Road to make it better for buses, as well as updating public transport maps for the city centre.

"We are planning some major improvements to bus travel in the city centre over the next few years which will help form the backbone of the city's transport system and help the city's social, economic and environmental development for many years to come."
See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/7910968.stm

I think the councils transport plans are to disparate. The train station should be made the hub for our transport and public transport should flow from this. The idea of bus stations the otherside of town (st margarets) is just pointless. If you do this then you need to link the 2 hubs together, which is the bit the council are missing.

In my view the station should be the main hub, with a taxi and bus hubs outside along with the new tram network feeding into this. Also the park and rides to the north and south of the city should end here. Once this gets going, then smaller hubs should be created around the city centre, but importantly they should link into each other

To be honest this isnt rocket science! :bash:

Makes sense, but are there any proposals for trams in Leicester?

Makes sense, but are there any proposals for trams in Leicester?

If I remember rightly, as a condition of Pennbury being built, then a tram line must be on the agenda leading from the new town to the City (running past the train station).

http://www.leics.gov.uk/tn5_stage2rcvsecotownp2c.pdf

http://www.bbc.co.uk/leicester/content/articles/2008/07/30/flint_on_pennbury_feature.shtml

^^

Plus the various 'feasability studies' that were meant to take place into trams over the last decade or so. :|

Yeah the Council response was great wasn't it. Our main priority is to build a new bus station. We already have a bus station and it was only built about 20 odd years ago. Also it was refurbished only recently.

If the Council invested all the money they want to spend on a bus station and spent it on an interactive road system, that would be far better. Computerised modelling of the traffic light system and new directional signs would improve traffic flow. It is 2009 and there are possibilities to use software to predict traffic flows into the city from many miles out. Also all the main routes could be monitored and vehicles could have speed restrictions or diversions to keep all routes flowing steadily.

I find it amazing that this country invests money into putting a camera network up to catch speeding vehicles and bangs detection devices into police cars to find master criminals driving without tax or insurance. Yet there is no compulsion to use technology to keep traffic flowing properly? In Leicester at night time the traffic lights change to red, when there isn't a single other vehicle on the road. That is madness.

Traffic management would be far better than any public transport option, although the return of a tram system to Leicester would be welcome! One day the oil will run out, but chances are another way will be found to keep private transport running. Isn't it time that interactive transport management was looked at? Why can't Leicester be the first?

I agree with all that, but as I understand the Councils next big project will be the new bus station, which they believe pulls together the new town centre improvements of Highcross and the Cultural Quarter.

Leicester's road network is in a dreadful state and needs sorting out desperately. The Council are doing there best to ignore this, but I fear the new park and ride will fail if buses are getting stuck in traffic all the time.

I've posted this before, but I'm adamant that a tram wouldn't work without buying up and knocking down many properties to make way for new connections. Leicester simply doesn't have enough routes in at the moment, let alone to accommodate trams too.

I agree with you Sir Robert. Whilst they are aesthetically pleasing, they couldn't run a comprehensive tram service in central Leicester without knocking down buildings and widening roads.

How did the trams work in the past then - with the same streets that we have now?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that modern day trams required wider roads than we have in some parts of the centre at the moment? A council feasibility study from a few years back alluded to this and that the city would not benefit from a tram system.

The feasibility study did suggest that a tram service could operate from central Leicester, servicing the northern suburbs and terminating in Loughborough......

Is the feasibility study on the internet anywhere? Surely Charles Street is wide enough for a tram?

Is the feasibility study on the internet anywhere? Surely Charles Street is wide enough for a tram?

I've been trying to find it as it would make interesting reading. I agree about Charles Street being wide enough.

The below is from the Council's website and is was published in 2002:

News Archive: "Tram study will go ahead," says councillor

8/02
11th January 2002

A MAJOR study that will establish the viability of a modern tram system in Leicester will go ahead, according to the city council’s lead member for highways and transportation.

Councillor Farook Subedar made his comments after reports in the Leicester Mercury (January 3rd) suggested that the council had already dismissed plans to bring a light rapid transit system (LRT) – or "supertrams" – to the city’s streets.

"Contrary to what you may have read in the Leicester Mercury, we haven’t ruled out LRT," said Cllr Subedar. "Of course it would be expensive and difficult to develop a modern tram network in Leicester – but there are no cheap and easy solutions to our traffic problems, and we need to keep all our options open.

"Last year, in the Central Leicestershire Local Transport Plan, the city and county councils set out their intention to investigate the feasibility of trams in Leicester. Nothing has changed. We still want to carry out that study to identify where LRT could operate and how much it would cost – information that we would need, if a formal application to the Government were to be submitted."

The Government has said that it would like to see 25 more tram lines created in Britain over the next ten years – such as the one currently being developed in Nottingham – and has indicated that it could provide up to 75% of the costs.

But planning a modern tram network could take up to ten years – and in the short-term, the council is keen to focus on other key objectives.

"While we investigate the long-term possibilities of LRT, it’s important that the council continues to work on its short-term transport objectives – which are to develop more park and ride services, and to work with the bus companies to improve bus services," said Cllr Subedar.

Council officers are currently developing the brief that will shape the tram feasibility study. Around £150,000 has been made available by the Government to complete the work.

Consultation with local people and representatives of the business community – to identify attitudes towards LRT – is expected to get underway later this year.

Leicester's roads are at bursting point. A tram is essential in my eyes. It's ok building all these park and rides but you still need to get into your car to drive to them anyway :bash:

An alternative mode of public transport IS needed for Leicester. Not just a feasability study for the sake of it, but to actually build a tram network.

What happened about the proposal for a system running west of the city?

Forget the tram, it won't happen and if it does by some miracle come to fruitition then it wont be for YEARS.

We need the ring-road, and all connecting roads sorting out NOW! It's an absolute joke getting in and out of town in the mornings and evenings. From all angles, it's a complete mess.

It could be sorted with some clever planning, cash, and willingness.

Feasability study. AKA...

"We're busy doing nothing
Working the whole day through
Trying to find lots of things not to do
We're busy going nowhere
Isn't it just a crime?
We'd like to be unhappy, but...
We never do have the time..."

I could solve a problem with the inner ring road for free right now. All I need is some black paint. The parking spaces on the right of Welford Road just cause all traffic on the right lane to squeeze into the lane on the left of it, slowing traffic down drastically. If you have a lane on an inner ring road, and are complainin about congestion, why put parking spaces on it?

I agree. The tram system wont happen for years. However I do think we have the room. Nottinghams an Shefields Streets arnt much bigger. PLUS we already have the benifit of having alot of the old Great Central Railway viaducts in place making that an ideal place for them to run including incorporating Braunstone Gate Bridge into it.

For the West of the city why not open up all the Freight lines again and stick a few shelters next to them and a ticket machine. It wouldnt cost a great deal as it was only a matter of 5 years ago the whole line was taken up and a new one laid.

Also lets think of areas that havnt started their regeneration yet like Frog Island and Lee Circle! Square miles of nothing of any use. Flatten it and start over making the tram system fit withing the proposed plans. We have all this prime land for regeneration. Sorry, regeneration probably isnt the right word, let me re-phrase that...

...We have all this prime land to START AGAIN.....

ps. I thought I heard plans years ago of mono rail?????

There is PLENTY of room for a tram system in Leicester. There is just no political will, unless someone like the Co-op offer to fund it. Leicester City Council will NEVER be pro-active enough to do something like this themselves. Nor will they have the nous to come up with an interactive traffic system for cars.

There is PLENTY of room for a tram system in Leicester.

Brilliant!

More back-of-a-fag-packet wisdom from Lears! No need to do a survey - Lears has spoken!:)

If you have a lane on an inner ring road, and are complainin about congestion, why put parking spaces on it?Exactly my thoughts. What a totally stupid place to put parking spaces! And right next to a multi-storey car park as well ... :nuts::ohno:



BG

[quote=Chisit;33087300] For the West of the city why not open up all the Freight lines again and stick a few shelters next to them and a ticket machine. It wouldnt cost a great deal as it was only a matter of 5 years ago the whole line was taken up and a new one laid.

Also lets think of areas that havnt started their regeneration yet like Frog Island and Lee Circle! Square miles of nothing of any use. Flatten it and start over making the tram system fit withing the proposed plans. We have all this prime land for regeneration. Sorry, regeneration probably isnt the right word, let me re-phrase that...quote]

Completely agree.

Whoops. Wrong thread

Brilliant!

More back-of-a-fag-packet wisdom from Lears! No need to do a survey - Lears has spoken!:)

Interesting how you pick up on what I said. No mention though that Chisit was saying the same thing as me. Are you stalking me?

There IS PLENTY of room for a tram system in Leicester. We have what amounts to a motorway circling the entire city centre. Charles Street bisects the city centre north to south. Again this street is easily wide enough. There are plenty of rail tracks around and the Great Central Way runs from the city centre to Fosse Park, almost completely uninterrupted by other traffic.

See previous suggestion for routes

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=16500896&postcount=87

From this thread http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=546978

Now whether the City Council can be bothered, or if the government ever becomes interested in new tram systems again is a different matter...

Now whether the City Council can be bothered, or if the government ever becomes interested in new tram systems again is a different matter...

That's the snag really - Leicester City Council will look at the numerous failed bids of other cities to build new or expand existing systems and realise its nothing but a huge waste of taxpayers money to even put in the bid or study for such a system.

If you look at Leicester the ring road is full to bursting, and the buses are running out of space to find where to park. Leicester needs a new transport hub. I wreckon the new bus station that will be built, should incorporate a tram system, that wil link to the train station. On top of this, the tram should also be directed along the current train line, and then veer off towards saffron Lane(this is easily wide enough for a tram system) and go to wherever you wish it go to. The other side of the line should be looking at heading down past Abbey Park and out to Beaumontleys and Rushey Mead serving the Science park. This could ease congestion quite considerably I wreckon.

Interesting how you pick up on what I said. No mention though that Chisit was saying the same thing as me. Are you stalking me?

Chisit says he thinks there is.

You say there is.

Big difference. And I get accused of being arrogant!??:)

Not quite sure how me saying that there are wide enough roads in Leicester for a tram, makes me arrogant? I'll accept opinionated, stubborn or blinkered though...

Because in coming to the judgement of whether or not "there is plenty of room for a tram system in Leicester", you need to know a lot more than how wide some of the roads are in central Leicester. You need to survey traffic flows, alternate routes, you need to know about the services beneath the streets and the capacity of the street to take the infrastructure you need to operate the tram.

If the Government has put aside £150,000 for a survey of this sort, doesn't that suggest to you that there might be a bit more to it than looking up down the street and saying "Yeah, plenty of room"? It's arrogant because you think that your "common sense" is more valuable than the expert opinion of professionals who spend their lives working on this sort of thing.

It's exactly the same as you insisting that of course Leicester can support an arena
without knowing he first thing about the economics of building or operating one.

But where is this feasibility study for trams in Leicester Binge?

I can only give my opinion until someone presents us with a document that states categorically, that Leicester does not have the infrastructure to support a modern tram system. So there isn't an expert-led argument against a tram system in Leicester. So who the hell am I arrogantly arguing against?

Also why do the experts from the Co-op (£5 million feasibility study to be undertaken - why that much for a small route and £150K for a city-wide study?) reckon they could bang up a tram system for Leicester, in the southern part of the city? They also reckon they can overcome the problematic London Road in providing this. Also the City Council have said they could find their share of the cash for this tram.

Why can the City Council suddenly overcome all the barriers at the suggestion of this tram system? Because someone is offering to pay for it, that is why. That is the crux of the matter.

As for the arena.

I can only give my opinion until someone presents us with a document that states categorically, that Leicester does not have the infrastructure to support an arena. So there isn't an expert-led argument against an arena in Leicester. So who the hell am I arrogantly arguing against?

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj294/leicesterregeneration/fag_packet.jpg

This is all I can find on the Leicester City Council website

http://www.leicester.gov.uk/your-council--services/transport--traffic/transportpolicy/transport-plan/second-local-transport-plan (fifth document Annex 11)


(ix) Electric and guided buses / Trams

A number of cities in the UK are currently putting in place new tram systems. The
Manchester metro link is now well in operation and new systems have recently opened in
Nottingham and Sheffield. Trams represent a large-scale investment, which may be more
effectively spent on improving buses. However, a tram system does give public transport a high impact statement; they are zero emission at the point of use and provide efficient service to those they benefit. Whilst a tram system could be an option within Leicester, there are no existing proposals and so this would be a more long term consideration.
Provision of this kind will not materialise within the lifetime of the LTP 2006-11, for the
following reasons:

• High infrastructure cost (well obviously this is the UK)
• Significant disruption costs during construction (wll obviously this is the UK)
• Unavailability of appropriate corridor widths (what proof?)
• Long delivery time (well obviously this is the UK)
• Questionable impact on car usage, from preliminary experience elsewhere (what proof?)


Can anyone come up with anything more substantial than this "expert" opinion?

Anyone know why Leicester City Council attached a condition that trams must be provided, in lending their support to the Pennbury proposal? Remember...

Unavailability of appropriate corridor widths

Look how wide these street are - hover over the picture to see the tram line in place. No wonder we can't get a tram in Leicester, with the Parisian style boulevards they have in the "Holy City".

http://www.thetram.net/features/beforeafter/radfordrd.asp

http://www.thetram.net/features/beforeafter/shipstonest.asp

http://www.thetram.net/features/beforeafter/beaconsfieldst.asp

http://www.thetram.net/features/beforeafter/noelst.asp

http://www.thetram.net/features/beforeafter/highschool.asp

http://www.thetram.net/features/beforeafter/royalcentre.asp

http://www.thetram.net/features/beforeafter/parliamentst.asp

I rest my case...

You are repeating the same flawed argument.

You cannot simply say, Nottingham has trams, Nottingham's streets appear no wider than Leicester's in these photographs, therefore Leicester can have trams. Again, why bother funding a £150,000 survey if you can do it in five minutes on the internet?

You even have a council document where presumably someone who knows far more than either you and me about it, suggest that there might be physical problems with the corridor widths necessary. If I was you, I'd be finding out from the council how they came to that conclusion.

But, no - arrogantly, you'd rather believe your own ill-informed guesswork.

That's the snag really - Leicester City Council will look at the numerous failed bids of other cities to build new or expand existing systems and realise its nothing but a huge waste of taxpayers money to even put in the bid or study for such a system.

Hear hear. A great white elephant in the room!

You are repeating the same flawed argument.

You cannot simply say, Nottingham has trams, Nottingham's streets appear no wider than Leicester's in these photographs, therefore Leicester can have trams. Again, why bother funding a £150,000 survey if you can do it in five minutes on the internet?

You even have a council document where presumably someone who knows far more than either you and me about it, suggest that there might be physical problems with the corridor widths necessary. If I was you, I'd be finding out from the council how they came to that conclusion.

But, no - arrogantly, you'd rather believe your own ill-informed guesswork.

Have you really read anything I have written? By the way, I can say anything I want to about anything. I can show photos of narrow "Holy City" streets with trams and question why our roads are "too narrow". There is nothing arrogant about that. I am allowed an opinion about it.

There is no sign of this £150,000 survey. There is a £5 million feasibility study being offered by the Co-operative. I've written to the council about numerous things in the past. My experience is that they only reply sometimes. I know someone who has made a FOI request to see the tram feasibility study and got nowhere.

You are right, my guesswork is ill-informed. Because there is nothing published by anyone to show why the "corridor widths" are too narrow. Which "corridor widths" are we talking about? All I can do is argue that there are broad streets in Leicester and unused or underused rail lines.

I will keep you informed about my attempts to get a decent document and information about the feasibility of trams in Leicester. Until then, I will continue to argue that trams are physically possible in Leicester. Whether the funding will ever materialise is a completely different issue...

Have you really read anything I have written?
Yes - and more closely than you have, by the looks of it.

By the way, I can say anything I want to about anything.

Of course you can. You can say the earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese if you like.

I can show photos of narrow "Holy City" streets with trams and question why our roads are "too narrow". There is nothing arrogant about that. I am allowed an opinion about it.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion on subjects of subjective value, but the question of whether the roads of Leicester are too narrow or not for a tram is not a matter of opinion, but a matter of physical fact. Either they are or they aren't. So your opinion of whether they are or are not possible is immaterial, if it is not informed by anything more than guesswork. The only thing that matters is the fact whether or not they are.

(For the record, I don't know if trams are feasible in Leicester. Maybe they are. Maybe they aren't. I am not in the possession of the facts, so I can't say one way or the other. You are not in possession of the facts, but so what - you still have your "opinion". )

There is no sign of this £150,000 survey. There is a £5 million feasibility study being offered by the Co-operative. I've written to the council about numerous things in the past. My experience is that they only reply sometimes. I know someone who has made a FOI request to see the tram feasibility study and got nowhere.

You are right, my guesswork is ill-informed. Because there is nothing published by anyone to show why the "corridor widths" are too narrow. Which "corridor widths" are we talking about? All I can do is argue that there are broad streets in Leicester and unused or underused rail lines.

I will keep you informed about my attempts to get a decent document and information about the feasibility of trams in Leicester. Until then, I will continue to argue that trams are physically possible in Leicester. Whether the funding will ever materialise is a completely different issue...

So, whilst you continue not to know whether or not the streets are wide enough for trams - though you have seen a document from the council which suggests that they may not be - you will continue to argue that they are, even though you don't know one way or the other????

From looking at the Nottingham pictures it does make Leicester's tram seem more possible. The transformation it has had in Nottingham looks so good.

Because we don't have any documents proving that Leicester's streets are too narrow for trams (only one line from one document about air quailty in the city), I have no choice but to blindly argue that we do have streets wide enough. It is pretty obvious though to anyone who knows Leicester and has looked at the streets the "Holy City" tram network runs on...

Very obvious...

Do you only ever go by what the "experts" say then Binge? Do you let others tell you what to think and question nothing?

Because we don't have any documents proving that Leicester's streets are too narrow for trams (only one line from one document about air quailty in the city), I have no choice but to blindly argue that we do have streets wide enough. It is pretty obvious though to anyone who knows Leicester and has looked at the streets the "Holy City" tram network runs on...

For the third time: a survey that requires a £150,000 investment obviously requires some judgement more specific and technical than simply measuring the width of the streets. Without knowing traffic flows, alternate routes, siting of underground utilities etc it is a judgement that you are unable to make.

Do you only ever go by what the "experts" say then Binge? Do you let others tell you what to think and question nothing?

No, I weigh up the evidence in hand and make a judgement accordingly. If the evidence is provided by an expert, then certainly I give it much greater credence. That's what expertise is.

So if I am ill, yes, I go to my doctor and ask for her expert opinion, rather than take the advice of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about on the internet. If I wanted to build a tram system, I would go to some transport engineers and ask them for their expert opinion.

At the moment, re: Leicester's trams, we have a line from an official city council transport plan which throws doubt on the possibility, and we have a bloke on the internet who has looked at some photos and says there's not a problem, even though he admits he doesn't really know what he is talking about.

Of the two, I am more inclined to pay heed to the council transport plan. To be fully convinced, though, I would want to know - as you do - who compiled the report and on what basis they came to that conclusion. I would be mindful that a report may be produced for political reasons. So my conclusion, on the basis of not knowing enough about the subject, is to admit that as yet, I am not in a position to make an informed judgement.

Your conclusion, on the basis of not knowing enough to make a judgement, is to make a judgement anyway. This is exactly what I mean about back of a fag packet conclusions.

Would you say the roads of Nottingham are wide enough to support a tram network, Binge?

Even the single carriageway ones like in those photos?

Go on have a guess Binge. Do you think Leicester's roads are too narrow for a tram network? Do you think Leicester City Council would hide behind an excuse of narrow roads for political reasons, in not pursuing a tram network? Before you answer, remember they are in support of the Pennbury tram proposal, despite it being partly routed on the already congested London Road.

Come on Binge. Rather than going along with one line in one report, what do you personally think? Sod informed judgement, which you or I can't make because this phantom Tram Feasibility Study doesn't exist in the public domain.

I don't know.

On the face of it, the streets of Leicester don't seem to offer any obvious obstacles that would be any different in scale to the logistical problems in Nottingham, Sheffield, Manchester, Croydon or wherever. It's not like Leicester is medieval York or somewhere with obviously narrow or sensitive routes.

On the other hand, I don't know on what basis the corridor widths are ascertained, or if there are particular hidden factors in Leicester that might make a differences, and I don't know why the council have published a policy which suggests that corridor widths are insufficient. Is that a reasoned judgement, or political chicanery? I don't know.

So, in summary, I still don't know.

I can't wait to see a copy of the Tram Feasibility Study, if it even exists. I wouldn't be surprised (though I'm not making this claim) if there actually isn't one - and it is the City Council documents that are "arrogantly" claiming the streets of Leicester are too narrow.

I'll try my best to find a copy...

OK, where do I start? I’m not a highway engineer, but my main areas of work are regeneration, masterplanning and urban design – all of which require a good understanding of transport issues.

The city centre itself is not a problem; it’s how you get trams out from there into the suburbs that the fun starts.

Leicester has a traffic problem, we all complain about it and know that our roads need sorting out. This means that you can’t have trams and buses occupying the same space or the trams will just get held up in the same traffic jams as everyone else. Sheffield’s trams have this problem.

Leicester has only a very small number of main routes going into the city centre. They are all too narrow to locate two way road traffic, with space for buses and trams. Could you not take cars off the trams route? Well yes, but unfortunately, trams wouldn’t make that big a difference to the reducing the total traffic volume (It is only ever a minority that travel by public transport, but trams ensure they do travel in more comfort). Taking cars off any major route into Leicester would almost certainly cause other routes to become gridlocked. Given that I think Leicester’s traffic is already way above the capacity of the roads, I don’t think that would be a good thing…

So in my opinion, if the Council decided to say knock a bunch of buildings down on London Road, so that it has sufficient width for seperate car and tram lanes, then yes I reckon it would be ok. Can you see them doing that?

OK so there’s no study yet. From my experience, you can pretty much guess the general gist straight away. Generally studies are commissioned for two reasons: we already know the answers can you prove it? Or, we know the answers but don’t like them, can you find us an angle to disprove what is obvious?!?

Actually SirRobert, I think the problem is that Leicester has TOO MANY major roads leading through the city.

Look at Nottingham.. the majority of its inner City roads used by the tram don't have many cars using them. They are mostly small to medium sized roads that look great and serve the tram very well.

The Ring-Road isn't a problem because the tram goes over it.

Just for the record, Leicester's roads are plenty big enough for trams.

It's a pipe dream though, so i'm not concerning myself with it. I just want the bloody roads sorting out!!!

Underground system it is then! :lol:

Haha, very good Leicity ;)

Just out of curiousity, would it be very much expensive to build an underground system?

...Excuse my naivity. :D

In this country? Billions.

..oh...:|

A multi-billion pound tube system would see Leicester develop exponentially. As it would be easy to get from one area of Leicester to another area of Leicestershire, labour mobility would be so much greater. This would be bad for the city centre because many firms will locate to the suburbs!

Just for the record, Leicester's roads are plenty big enough for trams.
But not if you want it running on a seperate line to cars and buses.

Anyway, nerd that I am, I think the images below illustrate what I'm getting at regarding routes into Leicester.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5559/leicester.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=leicester.jpg)

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3920/shefcopy.jpg

Well years ago there was a proposed mono rail idea.

Think about it though...

...We only have the mono rail within the city centre using the existing Great Central Railway viaducts. We conect them all up again using some beautiful looking bridges and when the mono rail leaves the city to go out to the suburbs it merges into a tram system so to speak. So therefore we combine the both.

Sounds like an ok idea and it's not as if it's not been thpught of as before. Something needs o be done about public transport in the city. Why not be the first city in the UK to have a monorail?

There's a certain logic behind having a monorail, because it requires little space.

The one in Sydney's very cool, but I'm told makes little impact on the transport situation of the city.

Sorry but correct me if im wrong but it offers the exact same principle as a tram network. Only difference is this is above the ground.

Sorry but correct me if im wrong but it offers the exact same principle as a tram network. Only difference is this is above the ground.
I think the attached image shows the advantage of a monorail.
http://www.bochum1.de/Bilder/Australien%202005/Tag3/Monorail_Sydney_Town_Center_City_gross.jpg

At the risk of incurring the wrath of the Nottingham forum members, does anyone know the comparison costs of a monorail versus a tram system?

Some good dicussion on monorails here...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=782646

Is there plans to use water taxis/buses on the river soar.

The river runs from enderby / fosse park area to the city centre through to abbey park and then to syston. Its a no brainer to use the rivers as transport.

Its cheaper, its greener and there will be no traffic or traffic lights to stop at! Surely this should be considered and should have been implemented years ago. It is feasable right?

Who is the chief transport officer and is he/she contactable?

^^

See earlier threads, as there are plans for water taxis during football matches.

I think a monorail is the way to go for Leicester. It'll be less intrusive both in terms of construction time and disruption to the roads. Cost wise it may be more or as expensive as a tram system, however I've read that the profits from such systems balance this out. Similarly a Maglev Transrapid system could be introduced.

Apparently disused buildings can also be used as stations.

There's also another tram-like system ('Ultra Light Rail') which uses no overhead wires, but has power within the tram car/carriage, such as a power cell:
http://www.ultralightrail.com/ulr_in_action.htm

This could be another option.

There wont be a monarail in Leicester anytime in the next 20 years, come on guys get real here. Sometimes reading your threads it really is like reading a bunch of kids post

^^

Sad but true - transport investment is rare as rocking horse shit in this country, Leeds is ridiculously congested and I believe is the largest city in Europe without a rapid transit system. As I said previously there is definitely the case for rapid transit systems in Leicester and Derby, so there's no harm in discussing ideas.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of the monorail idea, it was suggested also in Derby however on a loop running around the city centre which in my opinion was pretty pointless.

Does anyone have a list of disused railways in Leicester/shire? A cheaper option suggested in Derby was to turn the GNR line into essentially a glorified bus lane, which is direct and uninterrupted into the city centre.

Monorails are eyesores in my opinion, I've been on the one in Detroit, its butt ugly and hardly anyone actually uses it. A tram would be a much better solution in my opinion, but in this country its almost impossible to get the funding just look at Leeds, Liverpool etc and even how hard its been to actually get the government to commit to funding the next stage of NET

There wont be a monarail in Leicester anytime in the next 20 years, come on guys get real here. Sometimes reading your threads it really is like reading a bunch of kids post

I'm well aware that such ideas will never see the light of day, however there's no harm in discussing thing whether they're pie in the sky or not.

^^ fair enough it was a bit harsh I suppose :cheers:

Maybe we need solutions that require less commuting.

Because there's no way in hell the road system or public transport in Leicester will ever be adequate.

I had to laugh at the suggestion of a monorail, it'd never EVER happen, and it'd destroy our City imo.

We just need better road layouts, less traffic lights, better bus services, and more clarity when it comes to driving in and around the city centre.

I wonder what happened to the fast bus lane idea? Similar to the one in Leeds? I know we were going to get those buses that looked like trams for the new park + ride at Enderby. :dunno:

Monorails are eyesores in my opinion, I've been on the one in Detroit, its butt ugly and hardly anyone actually uses it. A tram would be a much better solution in my opinion, but in this country its almost impossible to get the funding just look at Leeds, Liverpool etc and even how hard its been to actually get the government to commit to funding the next stage of NET

Although the Detroit one only loops around the city centre of a city which is a rather extreme example of the 'doughnut effect'.

No question, that I can't see a monorail happening in Leicester, they're perceived as being too wacky.

Problem is I just can't see a tram working. Unless you have total separation of tramlines and roads - there's trouble and Leicester hasn't got wide enough roads for this.

The idea of running something like a guided bus down former railway lines is very popular now, but unfortuantely I'm pretty sure that Leicester's abandonned railways were largely developed years ago.

Obviously sorting the roads out should be the priority, the problem is that the Council will struggle to find external funding to do this. An obvious solution would be to try and get businesses to stagger opening times, in particular schools. At the moment my 11 mile drive into Leicester takes about 50 minutes at 8am or about half an hour at around 10. A few years back, before we had all the traffic lights, I reckon I could have done it in under 20.

Another idea would be to persuade employers to embrace the concept of flexi time more whole heartedly.

I mean, are there really that many private sector jobs left that require everyone to be in the workplace at 7/8/9 on the dot?

I've often wondered if some sort of separate transport authority would be a good idea for the region - like those in Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire etc.

I doubt such an authority would ensure that Leicester or anywhere else in the region gets major transport investments, however it could give a unified 'face' for the regions public transport, a central source for information, easy to recognise single branding (not the current mishmash of different companies), integration and regulated fares.

Who in the council are the main decision makers when it comes to transport policy for the city and its surrounding areas? Maybe an email needs to be sent to them to discuss our thoughts

Although the Detroit one only loops around the city centre of a city which is a rather extreme example of the 'doughnut effect'.

Well it still looks ugly regardless of where it goes to. I understand the one in Sydney is ridiculed by the locals who hardly ever use it either

Who in the council are the main decision makers when it comes to transport policy for the city and its surrounding areas? Maybe an email needs to be sent to them to discuss our thoughts

I tried to find out from the council's website with no luck.

The British Government chat some s***.
''We want the country to be green, But theres no way we'll give any money for eco friendly transport schemes''
:nuts:

How about a big vacuum tube from Enderby to the city, like you get at shops. You sit in a pod and get fired straight through Braunstone Town. As likely as a monorail.

That sounds amazing. I'd be up for using it. :P

Just read on the Nottingham transport thread that government has approved a £400 million extension the NET tram system. I know I should feel envy but honestly I think well done to Nottingham and their leaders for their foresight and ambition.

By contrast I feel nothing but utter and complete contempt, anger and frustration with the muppets that run our great city. :ohno::bash:

Leicester City Council Family Portrait

http://xs537.xs.to/xs537/09142/muppets507.jpg

Cant see it????

You must have images blocked on your work computer

okay thanks I'll try at home!

The council missed their opportunity ages ago for a tram system, instead 'feasibilty' studies that meant nothing were carried out, if even that.

As has been mentioned before, one of the major factors constricting traffic flow in Leicester is all the bloody traffic lights. They are everywhere, and they are left on all night as well when they are not needed, forcing everyone to stop and wait for no reason, whilst the nonexistant pedestrians cross and the imaginary cars emerge from the deserted side streets. What a mess they've made of Burley's Way. Who, EXACTLY, comes out of John Lewis car park at 3 A.M. ???

And in the day they cause gridlock :mad: I thought the whole idea of having a driving test was to ensure drivers knew how to think for themselves and actually take turns??

How about the Pork Pie roundabout for example? Typical half-cocked thinking by whoever thought this fiasco up. You need the middle lane for the direction you want to travel but the bloody lights stop you so your exit is blocked, can't get across and end up with a queue of vehicles stuck ON the roundabout, straddling three lanes and causing gridlock. I was up there earlier today showing my wife the road layout (she's about to go in for her test) and the traffic was a nightmare. Dozens and dozens of vehicles stuck part way across the lanes, because the stupid lights were blocking everyone trying to get round. Putting traffic lights at entrances to roundabouts is bad enough but putting them ON it is just plain ridiculous.

As for buses, I won't even go there, save to say they are overpriced, often late, don't run at times when working people need them and there is no integration at all, with what should be connecting services being on opposite sides of the city centre.

They should re-nationalize the bloody lot and give us a real alternative to private cars, instead they are squeezing the motorist more and more even though we have no choice but to carry on driving.

If they can manage to build, run and maintain cheap, cost-effective and RELIABLE Public Transport in so many other countries, why do we have such an insurmountable problem ???


BG

You think this is bad I have just recieved a letter entitled "Your help is requested to improve travel in Leicestershire" sent to my company from Paul Sheard, Group Manager Transport Planning on behalf of Leicester City Council (aka Tweedle Dumb) and Leicestershire County Council (Tweedle Dee).

Apparently by completing the questionnaire I will be playing a 'vital role in helping influence transport planning'. Understandably I am little unconvinced by completing their travel census that I will 'help reduce travel problems, by reducing traffic delays, improving bus services, making roads safer', etc, etc.

To influence me to fill out this worthless peices of shit they will enter me into a prize draw to win £250. Aint Leicester great :ohno:

Just an aside does anyone else think Mr Sheard's title is an oxymoron... just thought I'd ask.

Leicester City Council does have an insane fetish and a humongous budget for traffic lights. It seems like somebody in the transport department in New Walk is not satisfied until a traffic light glows across every intersection in the city. Belgrave Road/Melton Road is one of the best examples I have ever seen of traffic light misuse. Why does the council assume the average Leicesterian has an IQ of 3?

^^^^^^

Philkeavo, just how does this survey or whatever it is affect the transport policy for the City and County? Both have independent policy plans?

Do you have a link at all? I would be interested in filling out if possible

I will put a copy on here tomorrow. If you are motivated to fill it in you're a braver man than me:)

If you think its bad there, try living in Derby - the bus routes are continually screwed around with. I thought it was someone in Derby who did the routes, supposedly its some guys in Leicester whom rely entirely on customer figures for the routes :ohno:

From BBC Leicester website today:


Plan to open rail link considered
Great Central Railway
The new rail link could help relieve congestion on some major roads

Plans to join up part of the old Great Central Railway, that could once again link Leicester with Nottingham, are a step closer.

A study is to be carried out to look at re-instating part of the line that was severed 40 years ago at Loughborough.

Experts say it would bring significant economic and tourism benefits to the whole of the East Midlands.

If given the go-ahead it could also mean new passenger services for people in Quorn, Rothley and Birstall.

The study is likely to cost more than £350,000 and will be largely funded by the East Midlands Development Agency (EMDA).

Experts will examine replacing a bridge at Loughborough to reconnect the two independent halves of the Great Central Railway.

Richard Tilden Smith, of the Great Central Railway Group, said more trains would help relieve traffic on the busy A6 and A60.

In addition freight trains would help take lorries off the road, he said.

The first consultation report will be published in May and the final study completed by October.
See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/7991215.stm

Also:

Work begins on £9m park and ride

Work has begun on a 1,000 space park and ride facility designed to ease congestion in Leicester.

The £9m Enderby site, close to junction 21 of the M1, will see buses travelling to a hub at St Nicholas Place.

The hub provoked some complaints when an access route was initially put down a pedestrianised road.

The park and ride service, which will also serve Leicester Royal Infirmary and De Montfort University, is expected to open in the autumn.

Wildlife habitats

County Council deputy leader, Nicholas Rushton, said: "The park and ride will offer quick and easy access into the city centre and is a key part of tackling congestion.

"The route will make use of existing bus lanes meaning journeys will be swift and offer an excellent new service for residents."

Officials said more than 30% of the site will be landscaped to help create opportunities for new wildlife habitats - this will include a variety of trees.

The park and ride is a partnership between Leicestershire County Council, Leicester City Council and contractors Tarmac.

See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/7992012.stm

Opening up the great central railway would be fantastic. I didn't realise it was been considered...

I assume the train would terminate at Leicester North Station. It would be nice for it to terminate in the city centre if that would still be possible. The old Central station could be used again?

From today's Mercury:


First sod cut on car park for bus link
Friday, April 10, 2009, 09:30

4 readers have commented on this story.
Click here to read their views.

Work has begun on a £9 million park-and-ride site to tackle congestion.

The site in Enderby, close to junction 21 of the M1, will have parking for 1,000 cars.

Low-emission buses will run every 10 minutes from 7am to 7pm into the city centre when the site opens in autumn.

Stops will include St Nicholas Place, Leicester Royal Infirmary and De Montfort University.

To mark the start of work yesterday, Councillors Nicholas Rushton and Patrick Kitterick cut the first sod of turf.
Click here!

The city and county councils are jointly funding the scheme.

Coun Rushton, deputy leader of the county council, said: "The park-and-ride will offer quick and easy access into the city centre and is a key part of tackling congestion.

"The route will make use of existing bus lanes meaning journeys will be swift."

Councillor Patrick Kitterick, the city's regeneration spokesman, said: "This is excellent news. Cutting congestion will reduce noise and pollution."

See: http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/sod-cut-car-park-bus-link/article-893048-detail/article.html

I assume the train would terminate at Leicester North Station. It would be nice for it to terminate in the city centre if that would still be possible. The old Central station could be used again?

If Leicester North station was reinstated, would they consider reverting the main station back to one of it's former names: 'Leicester Midland' station or ' Leicester London Road'??

I'd like that to happen. Leicester Central Station and Leicester London Road Station sounds quite nice. :)

How about Leicester GRAND Central Station? :D

I doubt Leicester Central would ever open again it is practically derelict with nothing much left of the original station. Has anyone been around that point lately. I imagine the only way the Central station would even had a chance of opening is if the "Covent Garden" style development scheme around there did go ahead and the station could have served as a bus terminal of some sort - or if pigs were flying then a stop on a tram line that used the former trackbed.

If the right plans were out into place then I'm sure something like this could be ideal for the building. Most of the building seems in tact, despite being derelict. It just needs someone to get the ball rolling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leicester_Central_railway_station

A bit of information about the station

I assume the train would terminate at Leicester North Station. It would be nice for it to terminate in the city centre if that would still be possible. The old Central station could be used again?

i recommend you go on google earth and look at the satellite pics of the area. i'll admit i don't know anything about the ownership but i can see few physical obstacles in the way. re-opening the tracks (also the one to rugby) would be such a big scheme in itself that if considered i would imagine they'd go the whole hog and re-instate central station.

I'd love it to happen, but as with many things there seems to be a lack of foresight amongst other things with the powers that be in this city sometimes.

yes and my view is the powers that be in this country are inately incapable of diverting business elsewhere and just keep piling up the infrastucture in areas that are already performing, no matter the cost. the fact that the ECML had better cost benefits for HSR than the WCML but the WCML got the HSR being a prime example. cost benefits weren't considered.

Yes it seems that things only revolve around London, Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds. How dare anyone outside of these areas even think about getting any real investment in their rail infrastructure.

well i can't wait to see the outcome of this report. the statistics are going to be very interesting. it could be what- doubling- of leicester's rail capacity?

Yes hopefully if everything falls into place. :D

i've started a thread on this in the transport section of the forum as it affects several cities and regions- http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=59

I just sent this email to the Leicester city council transport and traffic services dept

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7998182.stm

Drivers catch green lights 'wave'

Motorists should face fewer red lights following the relaxation of government guidance on the flow of traffic.

Local councils can adopt "green wave" systems of sensors, where vehicles at or just below the speed limit trigger a succession of green lights.

Environmental and motoring groups say carbon emissions will be reduced.

Previously the Department for Transport (DfT) had discouraged the systems which reduce fuel use, resulting in less tax being paid to the Treasury.

But now, rather than seeing green wave systems as a "cost" to the public purse, the DfT views them as a "benefit".

'Easy target'

The RAC's motoring strategist Adrian Tink said: "Green waves is a common sense win-win initiative that will actually help motorists as they go about their daily lives as well as reduce carbon emissions.

"It's used very successfully in other countries and it would be great to see motorists up and down the UK benefit from its widespread introduction.

"Let's hope this is the start of motoring being seen by policymakers as more than just an easy target for tax revenue."

The latest government guidance to local authorities on transport issues is contained in a document called the New Approach to Appraisal.

It states that it is "counter-intuitive" to view the higher tax revenues from discouraging green wave schemes as a "benefit".

Environmental pressure group Campaign for Better Transport said the schemes would make car driving more efficient, but claimed they would not get to the heart of the problem.

"They are fantastic so far as making the best available use of space and allowing drivers to drive in a smooth and therefore more efficient manner," said campaigner Richard George.

"But they don't tackle congestion in the long term because they don't give people alternatives to driving."

A DfT spokesperson said: "Tackling climate change is one of the single most important issues we face, and cutting road transport CO2 emissions will play an important part in that.

"Urban traffic control systems, like green wave, help tackle congestion and vehicle emissions in urban areas, and a number are already being progressed as local major schemes.

"Our new guidance regarding fuel taxation will mean that greater priority will now be given to this type of scheme."

Leicester already has far more traffic lights than it really needs. Implement this policy if you're sane.


Let's hope it at least makes them think about it.
--

A look into the proposed High Speed Rail Link.
The proposed potential routes:

A

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4585/59075229.jpg

B

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5724/16961577.jpg

C1/C2 C2 is the same as C1 but with a cross country loop between Manchester and LEeds

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7840/30812339.jpg


D

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3769/73315637.jpg


It looks like they have however not adopted C2, which appears to have the highest total passenger number potential according to their figures, due to the increased usage on routes with the loop. :ohno:

Looks like it is however going to go through the WestMidlands on ether A1 or B1. It just so happens these are the routes with lowest potential passenger numbers. :ohno:

duane, did the maps also have cost projections with them? My guess is that they would look at the 'cost per head', and would obviously have to consider not just laying new track, but the ease of doing so, including stations that would require minimal upgrading.

If C1/C2 were adopted, the increase in passenger traffic would be substantial, and stations would need to be adapted to cope with that. As you mention in the 'Core City' thread, it's not necessarily about speed, but about capacity and infrastructure too.

If C1/C2 were adopted, the increase in passenger traffic would be substantial, and stations would need to be adapted to cope with that. As you mention in the 'Core City' thread, it's not necessarily about speed, but about capacity and infrastructure too.

The new line would increase capacity for the whole network.

The Leicester route by 2M Group seems to have been dismissed and it looks like the via Birmingham route will be undertaken which really annoys me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/leicestershire/8010735.stm

'Runway plans 'should be accepted'

Experts at Leicestershire County Council have recommended that the authority does not object to an airport's runway extension plans.

East Midlands Airport bosses want to extend its runway by about 190m (623ft) to make it 3.08km (1.91 miles) long.

The airport said the extension would allow aircraft to fly from there to the United States.

North West Leicestershire District Council will meet in the summer to discuss the plans.

A spokesman from East Midlands Airport said: "We note the advice to the county council not to object to the runway extension and now look to the district council to approve the planning application without any further delay."

But David Taylor, MP for North West Leicestershire, said he was disappointed the county council had raised no objections to the plans.

"Noise, particularly noise at night, is a serious environmental problem for communities around the airport and those who are under its flight path.

"We could have done something about this at this point."

Mr Taylor added that if the district council approved the plans, he would try to push for a public inquiry to stop the runway extension.

In the report, county council experts said they believed any increase in noise levels would be "largely over sparsely populated areas".

The report added that "there would appear to be no significant additional impacts on air quality and traffic generation" with the planned extension.

The issue will be debated by a meeting of the full county council on Thursday.

East Midlands Airport needs the extention. I'd love to be able to go direct from Leicestershire to America.

I would too. The problem with EMA at the minute is that it's full of low class, scumbags who want to drink 10 pints before boarding a no frills flight to Benidorm. The airport has improved massively over the last couple of years but unfortunately, you can improve it as much as you like - if you still only fly to Europe, you're only going to keep the scumbags. (although I'll limit this generalisation to about 70% of passengers ;))

If one could fly to the US from EMA then it would be fantastic. Being from Leicester/Derby/Nottingham, it already costs ~£50-60 per person to use Heathrow or Gatwick due to the distance travelled, no matter how you get there. If we could use EMA it'd be maximum of £10 skylink, so the increased fares would be doable.

No scumbags have ever flown to America, after all...:)

Once the 190m runway extension is built then apparently they can cater for flights to America. I think they must mean fully loaded wide bodied aircraft though as Birmingham has scheduled flights to America despite a smaller runway then the current EMA one. It would be good to get at least one scheduled service from EMA to America, maybe someone like Continental could be feasable as they already fly from the likes of Bristol and Birmingham

It'd take some of the pressure off the London airports too if flights to the USA were available from a wider range of regional airports.

But how come no one from the EM flies to the US from Brum? :?

I'm picky and only fly certain airlines (BA, Virgin etc) and none of them fly to the US from Brum!

Plus I think they only fly to 2 or 3 US cities

I can imagine an EMA transAtlantic service being limited to Florida.

I think they already go there with the Charter airlines, an EMA - JFK/EWR route would be a good start I think

Came from Reading to Leicester St the other day. What a contrast. They have a near fully covered station entrance with a array of shops, electronic screens and adjoining pubs and eatieries and everything looks modern and up-to-date. Arrived at Leicester St and thought, what a load of rubbish! (By the way were a larger city - they have 12 platforms and we have 4?)

Reading is actually sub standard, but it is where we should be now and from where we should be looking to move on even further.

I hope the council and LRC aim to make improvements soon. This is not the first view any newcomer to Leicester City should experience. I hope they teardown Royal Mail and turn it into a carpark and office space

Leicester station has always been too small and is rather run down to be fair. Nothing will be done to improve it for a good decade because those in government have no interest in the development of Leicester. To be fair though, why should they. Aslong as they line their pocket, they are happy. Leicester just doesn't produce enough Rolex Watches.

Reading station is a major interchange on the rail network. Leicester isn't.

I guess you are right. Althought Leicester's train station is still relatively small for the number of journeys made from or to it. I find I am having to change trains at ether Derby, Nottingham or Nuneaton all the time. People say Leicester has good transport links but I would have to disagree. Maybe with a better station more routes could be added without changing stations all the time and Leiceter could be used as a terminus station.

Leicester 2007/2008 - 4.969m annual passengers - 4 platforms - 3,500 people using each platform a day (exc. changing trains)
Nottingham 2007/2008 - 5.892m annual passengers - 6 platforms - 2,690 people using each platform a day (exc. changing trains)
Derby 2007/2008 - 2.987m annual passengers - 6 platforms - 1,363 people using each platform a day (exc. changing trains)
Nuneaton 2007/2008 - 0.707m annual passenger - 7 platforms - 276 people using each platform a day (exc. changing trains)

The size of the station also gives Leicester a bad image when potential business men are ether going through it or using it. That coupled with the awful look of the station, the ring road as soon as you exit, the 'giant blue building' as it is named these days, and a long walk to get to any decent shops really makes you think. Invest in Leicester, or invest right next door in Nottingham which has a nicer station, appears to be a much larger city and has a modern looking apperance and tram system?

Large stations appear to make a city larger than it is and more vibrant. Afterall the first thing alot of people see is the train station and first impressions are everything.

As we've discussed previously, central Leicester used to have many stations connected to different parts of the country. The London road therefore didn't need more than 4 platforms.

The regeneration company were also well aware of the impression the station gives to visiters and opened discussions with Network Rail sometime ago. The recession and subsequent government borrowering may curtail these plans but the desire is there.

Leicester still must have the smallest station in relation to passenger usage in the country. If you can find different please let me know.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you Duane. However the point I made above goes someway to explaining why.

Fact is, Leicester Station is a cheapo from the not so glamourous architecture decades.

The frontage is beautiful however and something MUST be done to utilise it properly and make the station something to be proud of - rather than having a grotty carpark in there where all and sundry can fart around at night.

We'll see what comes of the masterplan for the station. If any of that went ahead it'd be a wonderful place to commute to and from.

From today's Mercury:


Public faces £2m park-and-ride bill
Saturday, May 09, 2009, 09:30

Comment on this story

A 1,000-space park-and-ride scheme to ferry shoppers and commuters into Leicester faces a £2m shortfall.

The crash in the housing market means that cash promised by housing developer Jelson Homes to help build the scheme. in Birstall, is no longer available.

Council bosses admit that the park-and-ride, at Hallam Fields, which would run buses down the A6 into the city, is so crucial they will probably use taxpayers' money to get it launched. Services should start by Christmas next year.

Jelson must pay towards the building of the park-and-ride when its 400th home is occupied.

However, the depressed housing market means it could be at least five years from that target, according to County Hall.
Click here for more

Leicestershire County Council made a bid for £2.5m in Government grants last year, based on the belief that Jelson would be able to offer another £2m this year.

When it became clear the cash was not coming as soon as it had hoped, the council changed its bid to the full £4.5m, but was turned down by Whitehall.

Ian Drummond, assistant director of highways at County Hall, said there was nothing the council could do. Others believe the authority should have seen problems coming.

Mr Drummond said: "There has been no mistake.

"County Hall does know what it is doing and now we are looking at other ways to fund it.

"We would have to be waiting years and years and years for this if we didn't. There are two options.

"We will look at other grants or we will add it to next year's transport programme, and that would mean we would have to find the money ourselves.

"In an ideal world, as soon as work at our new Enderby park-and ride-is completed, they would go straight to Birstall to start there."

Park-and-rides have been identified as key ways to tackle increasing congestion in Leicester.

The Birstall funding problem was brought to light by Charnwood's Labour parliamentary candidate, Eric Goodyer.

He said: "The Tories at County Hall have messed things up yet again.

"If they cannot secure developer money to build a car park, what chance is there for their grand sustainable urban extension schemes to deliver any of the promised environmental and community benefits that they claim will happen?"

A recent study by the county council found the A6 was one of the most congested roads into the city.

The city and county councils have both provided cash for the park-and-ride.

Much of the infrastructure, such as bus lanes, has been built. When it is operating, people will be able to catch buses into Leicester every 10 minutes.

The county council has said up to six park-and-ride sites, on major routes into the city, are needed to tackle congestion.

See: http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Public-faces-2m-park-ride/article-977508-detail/article.html

Why can't the council see we need a better form of mass transit system that doesn't need to use the ring road. The only way I can see, as a tram would still use the roads, and an underground is too expensive, is a monorail. I bet if done right a monorail could be quite attractive and even be at ground level through the city centre if they want. Cost of construction

Tokyo-Haneda - 1964 = £9.95m/KM

Kitakyushu - 1985 = £41.1m/KM

MGM-Bally's - 1995 = £10m/KM

Okinawa - 2003 = £17m/KM

Kuala Lumpur - 2003 = £23.8m/KM

Las Vegas - 2004 = £36.5m/KM

Palm Jumeirah - 2006 = £48.6m/KM

Metrail - 2008 = £13.3m/KM

Rowin - 2008 = £6.8m/Km

Mumbai - 2008 = £20.4m/KM




Nottingham Tram System = £200m for 14km = £14.3m/KM

http://www.edie.net/news/news_story.asp?id=16436&channel=0&title=Regenerating+inner+cities+with+sustainable+transport

Regenerating inner cities with sustainable transport

The Government has announced plans to regenerate inner city areas through sustainable transport initiatives.

Nine areas suffering with transport congestion and in need of regeneration are going to be able to bid for a share of £29m over the next three years.

The scheme is an expansion of the Department for Transport's three sustainable travels towns that have, over the last five years, cut car use by up to 9%, increased walking by up to 14% and pushed up cycling rates by at least 12%, according to the government.

The nine areas are Greater Manchester, West Midlands, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, Tyne and Wear, Merseyside, Bristol, Nottingham and Leicester.

The successful bidders we expect the chosen areas will have to provide a significant financial contribution and to build up an evidence to show sustainable travel measures are a 'viable and attractive option' for the future.

Announcing the potential funding Paul Clark, transport minister, said: "Giving people a real alternative to the car not only reduces congestion and carbon emissions, but also increases the amount of exercise they take.

"The opportunity to become England's first sustainable travel city will be a chance to see these benefits on a much larger scale and I look forward to seeing the bids coming in."

The chosen city will introduce new sustainable transport plans such as work or school travel plans, cycle training, online journey planning and dedicated bus routes to name but a few.



I wonder if Leicester will be able to come up with an ambitious and innovative bid?

I wonder if Leicester will be able to come up with an ambitious and innovative bid?[/QUOTE]

^^:lol:

I wonder if it will be Leicester that is missed out again? Surely people can realise that Leicester has one of the worst road systems in the country. I remember hearing that Leicester was the 2nd most congested City in the country behind London.

Perhaps it'd be less congested if there weren't so many damned car parks.

Or maybe the government in Whitehall needs to take another look at Leicester's population figures and give our council the money it needs to upgrade the road network to a more realistic level.

Getting rid of some of the bloody traffic lights would help. I read somewhere that we have more traffic lights per mile than anywhere else in the country, and the council are intent on adding more and more of them. Even switching them OFF outside peak times would be a great help. Let motorists use their own skills and initiative for once and there will be less accidents plus traffic will flow better. It's already been proven elsewhere. I've experienced what happened when the lights failed at Fosse Park! Flowed beautifully, people actually watch the road instead of a bloody light bulb suspended over it.

Pork Pie is a prime example. What a bloody nightmare :mad: you often can't get in lane at peak times because the lights force the cars to back up on the roundabout! It's often a complete mess with cars stuck halfway across lanes ...

Oh, sorry. I forgot. This is Nanny State England :mad:


BG

Talking about mass transit systems and the trams. The possible extension of the great central railway connecting Leicester to Nottingham. What about extending the central railway south? and connecting the various sections of Leicester? Mostly the Fosseway route and the tram to "Pennbury" and Oadby / Wigston

This is more important then being connected to Nottingham. I have no interest in being connected to Nottingham and the North! (The thought of it!) The tram extension and future high speed trains should be focussed South. Firstly lets improve mass transit in Leicester first

Talking about mass transit systems and the trams. The possible extension of the great central railway connecting Leicester to Nottingham. What about extending the central railway south? and connecting the various sections of Leicester? Mostly the Fosseway route and the tram to "Pennbury" and Oadby / Wigston

This is more important then being connected to Nottingham. I have no interest in being connected to Nottingham and the North! (The thought of it!) The tram extension and future high speed trains should be focussed South. Firstly lets improve mass transit in Leicester first

I completely agree.

^^ Ditto. It's not impossible, in fact all it needs is some ambition. Re-opening the GCW to the south would provide a very effective bypass to all the congestion along Narborough Road/Aylestone Road! I believe it would significantly reduce said congestion in the process.


BG

Is this not part of the the plans previously discussed by Central Railways?

http://www.central-railway.co.uk/

Train lines/stations could be reinstated including a new Leicester to Burton line:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8099912.stm

We've been waiting years for a Leicester - Burton line reinstatement. The further strengthening of the Tory grip on County Hall won't help...

The Leicester - Burton Corridor would receive a massive economic boost, should the line get re-instated.

Great news. Now time to create a new Leicester to London, 200mph line. :D

^^
Not if they favour the larger cities over us 'lesser' cities.

the new incoming CEO who will over see the potential London to the North link is a northerner from the west midlands and will ruin all plans!

Its about time we had new train lines, cant believe we have delayed it this long. France, Germany and the Nordic countries have been growing their links on a yearly basis. We have had very little expansion outside London! Its like were in a time warp!

Britain creats things and then lags behind in developing them further, i.e trains, certain sports, etc.

It is the British way...

We had a fantastic rail network at one time, but much of it was dismantled. A pure case of knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

Oil will run out one day. There may be alternative fuels to power private vehicles, but I still feel we will come to regret the Beeching Cuts in this frustrating island of ours.

Interesting to see that there is still talk of extending the Great Central Railway as far south as Abbey Park - and possibly even Leicester Central. If the Bowstring Bridge were to be preserved, then it would be possible to bring services in from the south western part of the city (Fosse Park - Meridian etc) - and even branch off to the west with the proposed National Forest/Ivanhoe line.


Recently discussion has looked at a possible extension south of Leicester North station, to a new station 1 mile away, at Beaumont Leys Lane, close to the Abbey Pumping Station, National Space Centre, Abbey Park, and ultimately Leicester city centre. The extension would be single track from Leicester North, and would be for passenger use only. A run-around loop would be located at Beaumont Leys Lane, along with a single platform and station facilities.
Crossing the busy Red Hill Way to reach the embankment at the far side is a major challenge in extending south.

Extending to the Abbey Lane area would require the demolition of part of the platform at Leicester North, and bridging the Leicester Outer Ring Road and Thurcaston Road. Extending to Leicester Central was once an option considered by the railway, but pulled out of talks with the Council, stating that the restoration and rebuilding works would be too expensive and would not fit in with the Council's timetable for the area.

This project may yet happen as soon as the Loughborough Gap is bridged to join the two sections of the Heritage GCSR together.

Where's the quote from? Good news. :)

good news indeed, I really hope it goes forward! Obviously pennbury is unlikely to happen in the near future, but hopefully they can tie that in with the route

Excellent! :)

Excellent news indeed. I would love to see a fully restored Leicester central, but one step at a time....

This does sound like a great idea. Leicester needs better public transport links and this is a great potential soloution to one side of the city.

Here's the document outlining the new route proposals, including the Leicester to Burton line:

http://www.atoc.org/general/ConnectingCommunitiesReport_S10.pdf

The new line will run from Knighton junction.

Le sigh...

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Rail-electrification-delay-costly/article-1193161-detail/article.html

Rail electrification delay 'may be costly'
Friday, July 24, 2009, 09:30
Comment on this story

Millions of pounds of investment and new jobs could be held up because of a delay in electrifying the Midland mainline.

Business leaders fear big employers could shelve plans to relocate to Leicester after it was announced high-speed trains to and from London might now be more than a decade away.

Gordon Brown has announced that electrifying the Midlands line has been put back in favour of the much more expensive Great Western route, running from the capital through South Wales.

Network Rail had initially said there was a good chance the Midlands track would be included. A super-fast link with the capital was set to provide a vital boost to £3bn of redevelopment in Leicester, including attracting Government offices and big businesses.

Improved services are also central to making Leicester railway station the centre of a £150m office and leisure development.


Offices, shops, bars and restaurants, car parking and a new civic square have been earmarked for the area, creating 2,800 jobs.

Electrification would allow trains to travel at up to 200mph, halving the current 75-minute journey time from city to city.

It would have made it quicker to commute from Leicester into London than from parts of the capital itself.

Trains to the capital could soon be below the hour mark anyway, but with electrification would be even faster.

Leicester South MP Sir Peter Soulsby said: "It is a blow. In the next few months we must get assurances that the Midland mainline will be included in the next phase of electrification.

"I will be using my place on the Commons transport committee to get answers from ministers and ensure money is there for more electrification.

"It has a compelling case for improvement because it would pay for itself in terms of the amount of money it would bring into the area. We will continue to fight for this."

Market Harborough, Loughborough and Parkway Station, near East Midlands Airport, were also set to benefit.

The Department for Transport told the Mercury the Great Western line needed upgrading sooner and could not say when the Midland mainline would be reconsidered.

Councillor David Parsons, leader of Leicestershire County Council and chairman of the East Midlands Regional Assembly, said: "It is extremely disappointing and we will not take this lying down.

"We met with Network Rail recently who said there was a good chance this would be included and then we get this announcement. We want to know why.

"This has serious economic implications for Leicestershire and the region. We will be the fastest-growing area in the coming years but they still refuse to electrify our railway line."

David Hughes, chief executive of economic development agency Prospect Leicestershire, said electrification needs to be done within seven years.

"The improvements around the railway station stands alone from this issue, although improving journey times would greatly enhance its attractiveness," he said.

Network Rail pencilled in a provisional timetable for electrifying the Midland mainline in May, and an initial survey showed electrification was viable.

It would cost at least £130m, much less than the £1bn London to Wales route.

Surely the Midland Mainline serves a much bigger population than a route to South Wales?

Electrification would allow trains to travel at up to 200mph, halving the current 75-minute journey time from city to city.

Is this claim accurate? Trains travel nowhere near that speed on the electrified ECML

Stupid government. As I have said before. The East Midlands is treated awfully. I bet the MP's have some property on the route of the new areas of electrification. Corruption!

Beeston, in theory it would be possible for the train to travel at 200mph - but crucially, in that statement, it says 'up to 200mph' - In other words, it's capible, but it won't do anything like 200.

Probably more around the 140-160mph area.

I see. So cutting the 75 mins journey time in half is also out out of the question then

At 150mph, the journey would take 45 minutes. I'd say that is very fast and would benefit the whole region substantially.

I thought the current tracks were not able to take speeds above 125mph? Wouldn't new track in a more staright line need to be constructed as with the new highspeed rail route in the south east?

Again our region is being pushed aside in favour of other areas, even though the MM is a main arterial route through the centre of Engand. :ohno:

How much do you wreckon it would cost to put one line between Leicester and South Wigston. I ask this as this is where the Leicester-London and Leicester-Birmingham routes seperate. There is currently 3 lines along this route. With Leicester often being referred to as a bottle neck station I was thinking, surely a 4th train line would be an ideal way of increasing train capacity. There is plenty of space for a 4th and maybe even 5th and 6th line across this route without even having to aquire new land.

Leicester-London and Leicester-Birmingham could, with the introduction of one extra train line, both have dedicated lines which would never need to cross each other. Surely this would allow for more trains to be run through from Leicester to London and Leicester to Birmingham. I place particular emphasis on the London route as this is expected to reach capacity in less than a decades time.

Does anybody else see the potential of this idea?

How much do you wreckon it would cost to put one line between Leicester and South Wigston. I ask this as this is where the Leicester-London and Leicester-Birmingham routes seperate. There is currently 3 lines along this route. With Leicester often being referred to as a bottle neck station I was thinking, surely a 4th train line would be an ideal way of increasing train capacity. There is plenty of space for a 4th and maybe even 5th and 6th line across this route without even having to aquire new land.

Leicester-London and Leicester-Birmingham could, with the introduction of one extra train line, both have dedicated lines which would never need to cross each other. Surely this would allow for more trains to be run through from Leicester to London and Leicester to Birmingham. I place particular emphasis on the London route as this is expected to reach capacity in less than a decades time.

Does anybody else see the potential of this idea?

It used to be 4 not so long ago but there were 2 slow lines and 2 fast lines and trains would always need to cross each others lines. So yes reinstating the 4th line again and keeping the London trains to 2 lines and the Birmingham trains to 2 lines would seem sensible and avoid the need for trains to wait to cross from one route to another.

I have heard a rumour that the 4th line was to be put back. There could be a problem though at Knighton Tunnel (currently 2 tracks through one portal the old fast lines) the other portal is disused and used to be 2 tracks (the old slow lines). Resignalling in the 90's was when the railways took the short sighted approach of saving money by ripping up track to save on maintenance. Hopefully the disused portal is still in good enough condition to reopen.

I know where you mean and I was on the train when the idea came to me earlier today. I'm fairly sure the portal shouldn't be in a too bad condition and even if it does need repair, this shouldn't cost too much.

Well there are plans for a new freight route with more tracks and platforms at Leicester station, if Wikipedia is to be believed:

Network Rail have recently released their freight utilisation strategy[7], over the coming years as a cross country freight route is developed the railway through Leicester, from Syston to Wigston Junctions would be enhanced with additional slow lines and platforms at Leicester created.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leicester_station

We don't want additional slow lines. We need independent fast lines for passenger travel. Then if there is space, the additional slow lines should be put down.

Surely we DO want additional slow lines? Freight trains are currently using the passenger lines through Leicestershire..

Before fitted freights ie freight trains with brake vans or guard vans there was a need for slow lines.

But on todays railways freight trains are relatively fast and would not really hold up passenger trains.

Depends on how fast you want your London trains to go though ?

In an ideal world you would have freight trains and passenger trains seperate but for Leicester i think freight and passenger trains could share, as they do now while providing a fast reliable service.

But increasing the amount of tracks back to 4 would open up lots more possibilities and more options particulaly when a train brakes down ie trains would not be held up they could bypass the problem.

The difference today is that you could have fast lines for freight and passenger trains and even faster lines for high speed expresses.

It's just common sense, which was used in the old BR days before the profit idealogy resulted in short sighted track rationalisation.

I thought "short-sighted track rationalisation" began in the old BR days

Oh, Dr Beeching :ohno:

I thought "short-sighted track rationalisation" began in the old BR days

Oh, Dr Beeching :ohno:

Yes Mark76 your quite right but this was complete line closures. The lines that were left were usually rationalised when they were resignalled both short sighted measures.

Apparently the old GCR if the route had been preserved would have made an excellent freight only route taking lots of lorries of the roads today.

All that hard work and endeavour going to waste because it was thought the roads would have all the answers to our transport needs.

Same scenario with the trams.

Do we as a society ever learn ?

£9m plan to get Leicester residents out of cars
Tuesday, August 11, 2009

Transport bosses in Leicester are planning to get thousands of residents to choose walking, cycling and public transport instead of the car.

The city council has asked the Government for £9m to go on green transport measures.

If successful, Leicester will become one of the country's first "sustainable transport cities".

The council is after a portion of £29m being made available nationally over three years for greener transport.

Around a third of all car journeys are less than five miles, and alternatives could cut pollution and congestion.

The council wants to move forward its plans for a city-wide Oyster card, a cash-less swipe-card system which makes public transport cheaper and quicker to board.

The city's existing car-pool scheme would be expanded.

A survey asking people about their travel habits and what they want from public transport would also be carried out.

More cycle training would also be offered.

City council cabinet transport spokesman Councillor Patrick Kitterick said: "We are confident that we have put a strong bid together, which has a good chance of being successful.

"In Leicester, we are used to spending large amounts on widening roads and adding lanes. This money is an opportunity to spend in other areas.

"Our bid is all about getting people to change their habits and this can only be done by offering attractive alternatives to the car.

"We think this can be done by offering new ideas, expanding existing schemes – and finding out what the people of Leicester want from public transport."

Nine large urban areas in England are vying for money from the Department for Transport (DFT). The others are Greater Manchester, West Midlands, West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire, Tyne and Wear, Merseyside, Nottingham and Bristol.

Muhammed Malik, 55, from Highfields, said offering cyclist courses was a great idea, but added: "That's only if the council improve the roads, so its safer for cyclists to ride in to the city.

"It also would be better for the environment overall."

Emine Akgun, 43, a student from Saffron Lane, said: "The trouble with not driving in to the city is the public transport offered as an alternative.

"Bus fares should be made cheaper and the bus services made more frequent and reliable.

"Leicester should follow the lead of London's and Europe and introduce an electronic service, such as the Oyster card."

Civil servants are looking at the bids and are likely to make a decision next month.

The DFT said the cash could be used to improve bus stops and shelters, make new cycling paths and add 20 mph zones.


So the Holy City are moving on to phase 2 of their tram system, costing nearly half a billion pounds and what is the solution in Leicester. Bikes and walking and possibly a travel card. Great!

I can't believe the cheek of these lot. More cycle routes, when they have allowed the Bowstring Bridge to deteriorate. This was part of the Great Central route, allowing walkers and cyclists to get into town uninterrupted by traffic.

Oh and they removed the Upperton Road bridge as well, which took cars over this route. Such an unsafe bridge that it took them weeks to remove it with heavy machinery. (Was it really removed to improve access to Freeman's Meadows/Rolexes?).

Perhaps part of the £9 million could be spent on repairing the Bowstring?

That last line makes me laugh. If we win we get to add some new 20mph zones... which would keep us in our cars for longer, surely.

Whatever happened to the Noddy trains anyway?

Another pie-in-the-sky idea from Leicester City council's transport department that ended up going nowhere

FTO WOTZDA: The park and ride bus terminus will be where the St Nicholas car park was opposite the BBC building, and near the Highcross Pub. It will comprise of shelters and stands rather than a fully-fledged bus station and work is very well underway there.

FTO WOTZDA: The park and ride bus terminus will be where the St Nicholas car park was opposite the BBC building, and near the Highcross Pub. It will comprise of shelters and stands rather than a fully-fledged bus station and work is very well underway there.

Thanks Will be interesting to see how well this scheme works. Anyone got any piccies ?

Flickr has a few of works underway, such as this one from a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/uk_cam/3762466489/in/pool-1021024@N22

Flickr has a few of works underway, such as this one from a couple of weeks ago:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/uk_cam/3762466489/in/pool-1021024@N22

Thanks even though it's in the early stages of construction it looks a lot better than the original car park. Hopefully the shelters will be of the highest quality and a few trees and shrubs wouldn't go amiss.

Hopefully the bus hub won't last long, because it is a woeful use of the land and continues the status quo of bisecting the city centre from the castle and Jewry Wall.

Hopefully the bus hub won't last long, because it is a woeful use of the land and continues the status quo of bisecting the city centre from the castle and Jewry Wall.

The new park n ride terminus is in a very good position it will allow passengers a short walk to the Highcross. It could also be promoted as the starting point for tourists to explore Leicester's history. I think it's a very good use of the land.

Although in principle i am against road park n ride prefering train or tram park n rides using the existing railway lines to Leicester station.

An ambitious council with public and business support would then see a track from Leicester station through the city centre terminating at St Margarets terminal which would be just for the trams.

You can be as ambitious as you like, but as we have seen since trams suddenly fell from favour with the government, it's getting the funding that's the nigh-on impossible part.

I'd like to know how average journey times to and from Nottingham compared with Leicester's prior to the tramlines being installed.

You can be as ambitious as you like, but as we have seen since trams suddenly fell from favour with the government, it's getting the funding that's the nigh-on impossible part.

Is this the same government that are promising almost half a billion pounds for phase 2 of the Nottingham tram system?

You can be as ambitious as you like, but as we have seen since trams suddenly fell from favour with the government, it's getting the funding that's the nigh-on impossible part.

The main expense would be the infrastucture half a mile through the city centre. The rest would be comparable to bus park n ride. BUT WITHOUT THE CONGESTION !

The moneys there it's just priorities and a lack of ambition.

Also the planners are not strict enough anymore and have allowed the car and out of town developments to dilute the city centre.

Is this the same government that are promising almost half a billion pounds for phase 2 of the Nottingham tram system?

Thats probably because there a core city which of course has no relevance :lol:

The Nottingham tram system is a proposal that has been in line for many years now, has been delayed countless times and is still not certain to be built (and moved forward before the current economic state of affairs came about). To my knowledge all other tram/light rail construction schemes in the country have been cancelled (not sure about the Midland Metro, and of course Metrolink extensions are back on after a lengthy fight).

The scheme would take many years to develop since they move at much less than a snail's pace in this country, they all seem to have taken about 15 years to get anywhere from the initial planning, and there is no sign of a significant change in the generally anti-tram attitude in government. A tram promoted solely as a park and ride scheme is even less likely to get anywhere. And remember, you need to have a firm proposal to actually submit for funding in the first place!

Does it matter how long the Nottingham tram has been proposed for? Fact is that almost £500 million is being earmarked by the government just to create one line in one city. If they don't like trams, then why splash out that sort of cash?

Even they seemed to feel it had a compelling cost-benefit case, but you only need to look at what has happened elsewhere to notice the difficulty of planning this properly. However, as I said, it is not certain to happen. Money is becoming tight and Adonis has said the second high speed railway has to be a national priority to happen (meaning it has to be prioritised above certain things). A council has to commit a lot of funds and many years of hard work to develop a scheme that is likely to get the go ahead, which would be a pretty tall order these days.

I am simply pointing out to you that building a tram simply to serve a park and ride site would never meet the criteria. Leicester does not have trams because a viable scheme has never been submitted, yes the council may have missed the boat when trams were more in favour, but a short route serving either a main road or an old railway (in the case of Enderby) past the back of a few terraced/suburban streets would most likely not get funded nowadays. On road routes are frowned upong in general given that in Britain 'trams' try to be both trams and LRT (indeed this is generally a requisite for a scheme) and the off road route would serve even fewer people. A train based site into Leicester from elsewhere would not work either given the low service frequencies.

Utterly beyond belief. Anyone now in any doubt that we have the worst council in the country? The WPL in Nottingham is for a purpose - to help fund their trams. In that city there is a big worry that the scheme will damage businesses, but at least the flip-side for them is that an effective public transport scheme will be in place. This will allow their staff to potentially travel by tram instead. In Leicester we just have expensive buses...


Leicester firms may face workplace parking fees
Monday, August 24, 2009

Transport bosses in Leicester are to consider the possibility of introducing a tax on workplace parking.

Under the scheme, businesses in Leicester could be charged £185 or more for every parking space they own.

It is likely that businesses would then have the choice of passing on the charges to workers.

The idea of a workplace parking levy, which has previously been considered but rejected by Leicester City Council, has been raised again because a similar scheme is going ahead in Nottingham from 2012.

The £10 million it will raise each year will go towards the next phase of Nottingham's tram system.

However, Leicester does not have a similar public transport scheme, like the tram system, to invest in.

The city last considered a tax on parking spaces in 2002, but scrapped the idea after a study in Nottingham suggested charges would not make a big enough difference to traffic jams or transport funding – because there were not enough spaces to tax.

Alternative plans to introduce congestion charging in Leicester, Nottingham and Derby, were also thrown out in May last year.

Leicester City Council says it will now study Nottingham's workplace parking levy over two years and, if it is a success, officers will consider how it could be implemented here.

The Government rubber-stamped Nottingham's plans last month, paving the way for other councils to follow.

Nottingham is the first – and so far only – place in the country to have the scheme accepted.

Firms there with 10 or more spaces would be liable for the levy. It would be £185 per space in the first year, rising to £350 by the time the second phase of the city's tram system is completed.

Councillor Patrick Kitterick, Leicester City Council cabinet member for transport, said they would be watching and waiting.

He said: "There are three key tests – it must not damage the city economy, must raise enough funds for significant public transport improvements and must cut congestion.

"If it passes those, we will look at it seriously. I think that, within two years, we will have a good idea if it has. I would then ask officers to examine its benefits and look if and how it could work in Leicester."

Leicester City Council had backed the Co-op's failed Pennbury eco-town bid, which proposed 15,000 homes south-east of Leicester.

Those plans had promised a new tram system running down London Road into the city, which the council said could then lead to extensions elsewhere to other parts of Leicester.

With funding from the Government and the private sector harder to come by, councils are now having to find money elsewhere to improve towns and cities.

However, business leaders are against being charged more for such improvements.

Max Boden, policy manager for Leicestershire Chamber of Commerce, said: "Our members have made it absolutely clear that they are against the workplace parking levy. It is essentially an increase in business rates.

"If you were to bring it in you need to be able to have an alternative for people, and at the moment there's nothing sufficient.

"In Nottingham they have a tram, which this will pay towards.

"The question is what would a workplace parking levy pay for in Leicester?"

This is absolutely ridiculous. There is nothing to fall back on if such a scheme were to go belly-up, i.e no major transport system to fund. :mad:

Sounds like an attempt to grab some extra cash to me. Last week they decided to demolish the Bowstring Bridge (which would make a future tram line using the old Great Central route much, much more difficult). This week they want to charge us to park at work, without any offer of an alternative and affordable mode of transport.

It really is time they went isn't it?

Patrick Kitterick
Councillor in Leicester

http://councillor.leicester.gov.uk/Easysite/lib/serveInlineImage.asp?Type=Img&ImageID=122762

Before and after becoming a councillor I’ve had a variety of jobs including bus driving, being a doorman and working for a Member of Parliament. One of the things that surprised me was that as a councillor you often have a lot more power to directly help people than a MP.

My favourite part of the job is being part of changing my city of Leicester and making good things happen that simply wouldn’t if I wasn’t there. I became a councillor in 2003 and in 2007 I was elected as Cabinet Member for Regeneration & Transport. I enjoy the role as I have the ability to weigh up the potential collaborations and conflicts between the work in those two areas which only a councillor is uniquely placed to do.

The variety of work also makes no two days the same. I can go from discussing a bus shelter to a £20 million bridge scheme within the same meeting. My only official post in Leicester before becoming a councillor in 2003 was winning the title of Leicester Mercury Comedian of the Year in 1999 and I always try and bring that sense of humour to my work.


Good to see he is still rolling out the jokes...

http://www.beacouncillor.org.uk/meetthem/PatrickKitterick.htm

Utterly beyond belief. Anyone now in any doubt that we have the worst council in the country? The WPL in Nottingham is for a purpose - to help fund their trams. In that city there is a big worry that the scheme will damage businesses, but at least the flip-side for them is that an effective public transport scheme will be in place. This will allow their staff to potentially travel by tram instead. In Leicester we just have expensive buses...

I'm speechless.

The thieves are at it again. I wonder how much of this extra tax will go towards MP's pockets?

I think you're reading far too much into that article. It looks like a no-news-day type piece to me. It's basically saying that Leicester will look to see if a scheme in Nottingham works before trying something similar in Leicester. Common sense, I would have thought. The artcle is full of "could be"s and "likely to"s which suggests that the journalist has made most of it up to fill column inches.

From today's Mercury:


'Buses are the answer to congestion in Leicester'
Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 09:30

4 readers have commented on this story.
Click here to read their views.

Buses are the answer to congestion in Leicester – not a tax on workplace parking.

That was the claim made by County Hall highways spokeswoman Councillor Lesley Pendleton yesterday.

She said they would try to talk Leicester City Council out of considering a workplace parking levy, as reported in yesterday's Mercury.

The city council plans to study the impact of a parking tax scheme recently given the go-ahead in Nottingham, to see if it could work here.

Nottingham will be the first city in the country to impose the tax on firms with 10 or more spaces from 2012.
Click here for more

Mrs Pendleton said: "There is no way we want it. If the city decided to pursue a workplace parking levy then we would try to persuade them not to.

"It is difficult enough to attract businesses without something like that.

"For us, buses are the answer to beating congestion. We have a park-and-ride into the city and several more will soon be completed and those will have a significant impact.

"People want regular buses that go close to their home, wherever that may be. That should be the aim."

City council highways spokesman Councillor Patrick Kitterick said the authority would consider a workplace parking tax if it would cut congestion, did not damage the city's economy and raised enough money for public transport .

In Nottingham, the tax would be £185 per space in the first year, rising over time to £350. Revenue from the levy would subsidise the city's trams.

Coun Pendleton said the city council should concentrate on its plans for a new central bus station.

Friends of the Earth agreed that buses are the answer, but are not necessarily opposed to the parking levy if it would cut congestion.

Its city spokesman Malcolm Hunter said: "There is no integrated bus system in Leicester. People are left in the silly situation where they have to let buses go by because they have a ticket for the other company.

"We would like to see the city council move forward its proposals for an Oyster card for Leicester, which would also lower fares and increase bus use."

John Day, chairman of Leicestershire Chamber of Commerce, said members had always been against a levy.

He said: "It seems there will be no decision on workplace parking fees in Leicester until at least 2014.

"However, we will be asking all of our members once again about their views later this year."

Karl Craig-West, branch secretary of the Leicester city branch of the Federation of Small Businesses said: "Small businesses would be damaged by it and it will drive them away from the city.

"The council is spending millions on making the city more attractive to businesses, so this would be shooting themselves in the foot."

He said public transport needed to improve.

See: http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Buses-answer-congestion-Leicester/article-1282207-detail/article.html

I quite like the idea of an 'Oyster card' type scheme for Leicester as a short-term solution at least, which could be used on the trains and buses alike.

Right. What do we need in Leicester to reduce congestion and encourage greater use of public transport?

- Cheaper public transport. The prices at the moment are shocking.

- Fully integrated public transport. A daily, weekly, monthly, annual ticket that covers all modes of transport.

- The opening of the National Forest Line to cater for North-West Leicestershire.

- A dedicated public transport solution, whether it be trams, guided buses or Noddy Trains. Any transport solution needs to be highly visible, able to bypass car routes and provide very rapid journey times. Normal buses are not the answer and many, many more Park and Ride schemes will be needed. By the way the last time I used a Park and ride, a woman came on the bus and she and her children stunk of urine. I've parked in town ever since.

- A computerised traffic support system that can anticipate traffic volumes coming into and going out of the city. In predicting future peaks, traffic could be diverted to less busy routes to avoid congestion. Also traffic lights would not need to turn to red if there is nothing crossing the path of waiting vehicles. Cars, lorries, vans etc will continue to use Leicester roads. It is 2009 and we have the technology capability to manage traffic surely?

- Improvements to London Road station, including a hub for all modes of transport.

- Connectivity across the city needs to improve dramatically in public transport terms. At the moment too many journeys require a trip into the centre to make onward journeys. This is just due to poor planning and lack of will to improve matters. One ticket and proper mapping would allow people to make easier connections.

Now if we were to get all the above - then I would gladly support a tax to park at work - because I wouldn't need to drive to work.

Have you emailed Cllr Kitterick with these ideas? :D

He should know - he was once a bus driver.

I'm voting for Lears.

I'm voting for Filbert the Fox.

Hey Kitterick if you ever read this, remember the Beatles song Taxman?

"If you drive I'll tax the street and if you walk I'll tax your feet".

Boots ain't happy about the Levy - nice loophole though!


Boots 'outraged' by workplace parking levy
Louisa Peacock
24 August 2009

Boots UK has threatened to move its entire car parking provision across Nottingham's city boundary to avoid paying the workplace parking levy (WPL) at its headquarters.

The chemist said it was "outrageous" the city council had approved the WPL, after the transport select committee had described the consultation process as "deeply flawed", Localgov.co.uk reported.

Peter Gibson, director of public policy at Alliance Boots, said: "This will put an additional tax burden of more than £500,000 a year on our business at a time when Nottingham businesses, workers and households will be recovering from a deep recession."

Earlier this year, Gibson told Personnel Today: "Add to that an increased administrative burden for HR, terser union negotiations and a serious recession, and it's obvious this is the wrong time to apply this."

The company's headquarters straddle both city and county boundaries. There are around 4,500 parking spaces on-site, 3,000 of which are in the city boundary, and 1,500 beyond it.

Councillor Jane Urquhart, Nottingham City Council's portfolio holder for transport, said: "We are disappointed that Boots, which takes its corporate social responsibility seriously, would suggest building new car parks, and we would hope it will conclude that this is not a solution."

Small businesses have demanded that the government scrap the legislation, which allows local authorities to charge firms that provide private parking for employees.

The WPL (England) Regulations 2009 will come into force on 1 October 2009, although implementation will not be until 2012 to give employers time to adjust. Under the scheme, companies with 11 or more employee parking spaces will be charged £250 a year for each one, and employers would be free to pass the cost on to their staff.


http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2009/08/24/51872/boots-outraged-by-workplace-parking-levy.html

Hey Boots come to Leicester...

From LCC website today:
New Park and Ride terminus revealed

no: 587-09
date: November 2, 2009


A STATE-of-the-art, environmentally-friendly building is being revealed at a brand new park and ride site serving Leicester.

The new terminus and 1,000 space car park at the £9.2million Enderby park and ride site are the result of a joint city and county council scheme to provide a low-emission bus service running every few minutes between Enderby and Leicester City Centre.

The terminus, which incorporates a range of environmentally-friendly energy measures, will be revealed in a ceremony to mark its completion, on Tuesday, November 3.

The building itself incorporates ground source heat technology, which works by harnessing warmth from the earth to generate power and boost efficiency. The system will cut heating costs and energy consumption by up to 15 per cent as well as reduce carbon emissions.

The Enderby park and ride service is due to begin operating on Monday, November 16. Drop-off points in the city include a new bus hub at St Nicholas Place, which will include three new bus shelters and seating.

Leicester City Council’s cabinet member for regeneration and transport, Councillor Patrick Kitterick, said: “The new facility will benefit both city and county residents, by offering quick and easy access into the city centre.

"Journeys will be swift because the route will make use of existing bus lanes to avoid traffic congestion. It will help to cut congestion on city and county roads, which should have a positive impact on the reduction of noise and pollution.”

Earlier this month, the Enderby park and ride scheme scooped a prestigious eco award at the regional Constructing Excellence Awards.

Lesley Pendleton, Leicestershire County Council’s cabinet member for highways and transportation, added: “This park and ride is a flagship site, offering convenient parking for commuters, shoppers and sports fans.

“The techniques used in its construction are innovative and forward-thinking and this has been recognised through its recent award win.”

For more information, please visit www.leics.gov.uk/enderby_park_ride

See: http://www.leicester.gov.uk/newssite/index01.asp?pgid=9590

More on the new Enderby P+R:

http://leicester.gov.uk/enderbyparkandride/

http://www.leics.gov.uk/index/highways/road_pathway_maintenance/major_transport_projects/leicester_park_ride/enderby_park_ride.htm (includes a time-lapse video of the site's construction).

Images below are from the above website:

New Terminal Building:
http://www.leics.gov.uk/building.jpg

Site over-view image:
http://www.leics.gov.uk/p_r_p6_small.jpg

Thank god there was some thought and ideas went into the making of this park and ride.

I was dreading it would just be a bus shelter - At least they have thought it through and designed a waiting area, with hopefully tvs, bus arrival times and vending machines. A nice cafe would also help.

Also the general layout looks very nice and plesent.

The only issue I have with it, is that it doesnt stop at fosse park & merdian business parks.

Does the building of this Park and Ride bring more of Blaby into the Leicester Urban Area? The facility has eliminated the small gap in continual urban fabric, which should bring Narborough, Enderby and Littlethorpe into the Leicester fold. The 5,000 homes planned for this area will also fill in the gap between Braunstone Town, Leicester Forest East and Enderby.

Ok for someone like me this is a good move - I live in Desford and so have 2 park and ride's within 5 miles of me. One at Leicester Forest East/ Brauntone Cross Roads, and now this one in Enderby. My only concern is what the traffic situation will be in the enderby area at peak times. The park and ride itself looks great, and i'm impressed with how it's slotted in without fuss into that particular area, but those traffic issues do concern me. You have the Fox Hunter round-a-bout at one end which uses a traffic light and give way system which means it's slow even with little traffic. Then you have Enderby which is a small quiet village with narrow roads leading to Desford / LFE. Then you have Fosse Park which is normally quite busy anyway.

I hope it's not a problem.

More on the P+R @ Enderby, including wi-fi enabled buses! (from LCC website today):

Get on board new £9million park and ride service

no: 608-09
date: November 10, 2009

VISITORS travelling into Leicester are being urged to hop onboard a brand new ultra-modern park and ride service which begins running next week.

The new £9.2 million park and ride facility at Enderby will begin operating on Monday, November 16, and the service will mean passengers can travel into Leicester on the very latest wi-fi-enabled, low-emission buses.

The service will provide buses into the city every 10 minutes, giving sports fans, commuters and shoppers a hassle-free way to travel into the city, while helping cut traffic congestion, pollution and the reduce the numbers of cars coming into the city.

Buses will stop at a newly-developed park and ride bus hub in St Nicholas Place, as well as a circuit stopping at key locations including the city centre, New Walk Centre, Leicester Royal Infirmary and De Montfort University.

The innovative project is a joint scheme between Leicester City Council and Leicestershire County Council.

David Parsons, leader of Leicestershire County Council, said: “This flagship park and ride will be a real asset for visitors, commuters, shoppers and sports fans going to Leicester Tigers or Leicester City football games, as it will provide swift and easy access into the city centre.

“It will offer a quicker and cheaper way into the city than a regular car journey and help to reduce pressure on the road network.”

Throughout the first day of the service – November 16 – a series of fun events and activities will be taking place at Enderby. Staff will be handing out discounted tickets, voucher booklets and there will be a multitude of giveaways.

On November 16 at the St Nicholas Place terminal, there will be a display at BBC Radio Leicester offices, where visitors can discover more about the history of the site, find out details of the service and pick up goody bags.

Leicester City Council’s cabinet member for regeneration and transport, Councillor Patrick Kitterick, added: “We’ve put a lot of effort into improving the St Nicholas Place park and ride bus hub up to to accommodate this new service, as well as the existing park and ride services.

“The new facility will benefit both city and county residents by providing an efficient way to travel to the city. It will also help to cut congestion, traffic noise and pollution.

“By encouraging visitors into the city centre to see what Leicester has to offer, the Enderby park and ride will also contribute to the city’s wider regeneration.

“I look forward to the service being launched, and hope people take advantage of it.”

The park and ride service also boasts a range of green features, including:

- low-emission buses to cut environmental impact
- a terminus using ground source heat technology, which harnesses warmth from the earth to heat water and cut energy costs, as well as reducing energy consumption by up to 15 per cent.
- rainwater storage tanks which feed water into a balancing pond to prevent flooding and create new wildlife habitats

The buses will run from 7am to 7pm Monday to Saturday and cost as little as £3.50 for up to five people travelling in a group. Journeys will be swift and will make use of existing bus lanes to avoid traffic congestion.

Further information about the new service is available on www.leicester.gov.uk/enderbyparkandride

Timetables and voucher booklets including fare information are available from libraries, service shops and tourist information centres, by calling Traveline on 0871 200 2233 or by visiting www.quicksilverbus.co.uk

The scheme is part of a network of Park and Ride services being developed to serve the city with 21st century alternatives to car transport. It includes the site at Birstall, which is due to open in spring 2010.
See: http://www.leicester.gov.uk/newssite/index01.asp?pgid=9612

Can someone explain the point of building this thing. I don't get it?

Can someone explain the point of building this thing. I don't get it?

As an alternative to people driving one-to-a-car clogging up Narborough Road. A green alternative to travel for anybody travelling to Leicester from the south. What's not to get?

essentially there will be less cars going in and out of the city roads. But yes I agree there will be increased traffic around the PR site

Sorry, I think it is a waste of time.

It's anything but a waste of time.

If you bother to take a look at the Park and Ride at LFE you will notice how busy it always is. I'm constantly seeing the Park and Ride buses full of people - and i'd rather them all be in there, rather than individual cars.

For each bus carrying 60 people, that's dozens of cars off the roads. It's cheaper and greener too, which is a bonus.

What's such a waste of time?

OK fair enough. I would never use a park and ride.

I wonder what the ultra-modern buses will look like. Will they be like the originally proposed 'tram-buses'?

The thing I never get with park & ride is:

If you live miles away from the city centre if you you've already travelled miles why not just drive all the way in town? Why stop a couple of miles short to wait for a bus?

If you live fairly close to town why not just have a bus service that can take you from where you live to the city centre.

I'm sorry I don't make my travel plans based on my carbon footprint. I go for the quickest/cheapest/most convienent means of travel. Park & Ride would never be my choice. I don't see the benefit. Ultra modern wi-fi don't swing it for me.

You all must think this will be quicker/cheaper/more convienent. I disagree. It wouldn't get me out of my car TBH.

Perhaps I'm just negative because I work at Grove Park, i'm dreading the extra traffic!

Well it's not for everybody mph12 so don't feel you need to justify you not loving the idea of Park and Ride schemes. The truth is though, they have turned out to be very popular in Leicester - hence the building of this brand new one.

The Park and Ride offers you parking and a quicker, more reliable trip into the centre of Leicester.

Buses don't spend half the time in traffic due to bus-lanes.

Having 60 people on each bus rather than up to (although probably not) 60 vehicles on already packed inner-city roads.

It's much more greener taking those cars off the roads.

Having a dozen buses instead of hundreds of cars on the roads will ease congestion.

You can park and have your bus every 10minutes for £3 a day - that's cheaper than any car park I know of in town.

It's important to stress though, Park and Ride's are not the long-term answer to 'everything'. They don't appeal to everybody and that's fine, so long as they are successful in taking a load of vehicles off the roads in the right places and park bums on seats in their shiny buses then it's job done.

As I said previous though, I am a little concerned about the traffic at peak times around the Enderby area - I use those roads on an almost daily basis. We'll see.

Britain's rail stations to get £3.25bn facelift.

Thousands of train stations across Britain are to be refurbished in a £3.25billion scheme.
A total of 2,002 stations will benefit from the Network Rail investment between now and 2014, with spending on sites ranging from tens of thousands to tens of millions, it was announced yesterday.

Improvements include new passenger information systems, new lifts and stairways, toilets, waiting rooms and shelters, longer platforms, larger ticket offices and better lighting and CCTV.

'Stations are the railways' shop-front and they have been ignored for too long,' said Network Rail's Robin Gisby.

More than £100million each will be spent on London Bridge, King's Cross, Blackfriars, Birmingham New Street and Edinburgh Waverley.

Stations at Bromsgrove, Leicester Midland, Manchester Victoria, Nottingham, Oxford, Putney and Reading Green Park will see investment of more than £10million.

Network Rail will hold a three-month survey of passengers starting this month to find out what improvements are most important to them.

https://www.action-stations.co.uk

Leicester Midland? Am I falling behind? Or is this the Leicester London Road station?

Leicester Midland is the Victorian name when that and Central station used to operate? :nuts:

They probably added it by mistake.

Good news. I hope this investment is in addition to the proposed future regeneration of the station.

That's excellent news. If NR are willing to invest in the station it should encourage others to put money into the much needed regeneration of the area as well.

More on this from the Network Rail website:
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/Content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=4784&NewsAreaID=2&SearchCategoryID=2

Also the case to electrify the Midland Mainline:
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/Content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=4763&NewsAreaID=2&SearchCategoryID=2

You can park and have your bus every 10minutes for £3 a day - that's cheaper than any car park I know of in town.


The Holiday Inn car park in town is £3 all day. Saw a big sign advertising this a few days ago. Can't possibly think why they have done this? Oh yeah the car park is directly opposite the Park and Ride Hub...

I know what I would rather do.

The Holiday Inn car park in town is £3 all day. Saw a big sign advertising this a few days ago. Can't possibly think why they have done this? Oh yeah the car park is directly opposite the Park and Ride Hub...

You're quite right, they've been doing it for a month or two now and I had forgotten about it completely.

Still, the Park and Ride will be a success i'm sure. Not saying i'd use it, or if I did use it then it'd be a permanent thing - but it does have several benefits to its users, and the city of Leicester.

Here is a scenario.

You want to do some general shopping for clothes - perhaps just a shirt and tie or some new shoes for work.

You live in Narborough.

Option 1 - free parking at Fosse Park.

Option 2 - Park and Ride - travel a couple of miles in the car, park up, wait for a bus, pay £3, trundle into town along the congested Narborough Road. If you decide to get extra items, lug shopping around town. Wait for bus. Go back to car in Enderby. Free to go anywhere else you please.

Option 3 - drive to the Holiday Inn car park, take any route you want to get there. Pay £3. If you decide to get extra items, short walk back to car. Free to go anywhere else you please.

Why is it you mention the traffic issues on Narborough Road when taking the bus but you fail to even hint at any delay when in your car?

Lugging bags around town? Oh god no! The horror of shopping.

Let's face it, if someone wants to do clothes shopping they'll just go to Fosse Park anyway.

The Park and Ride is more for the commuters, and i'm sure it will be a success.

Here is a scenario.

You want to do some general shopping for clothes - perhaps just a shirt and tie or some new shoes for work.

You live in Narborough.

Option 1 - free parking at Fosse Park.

Option 2 - Park and Ride - travel a couple of miles in the car, park up, wait for a bus, pay £3, trundle into town along the congested Narborough Road. If you decide to get extra items, lug shopping around town. Wait for bus. Go back to car in Enderby. Free to go anywhere else you please.

Option 3 - drive to the Holiday Inn car park, take any route you want to get there. Pay £3. If you decide to get extra items, short walk back to car. Free to go anywhere else you please.


Well that can be said of the vast majority of P&R schemes up and down the country then can't it? So why are there loads of them? In near enough every city?

I live in town, and there have been many, many times where it has taken me 20-30 mins to make that journey to/from town from/to Junction 21 during peak times. It can be a real hassle, I get annoyed with other drivers, I get annoyed at the constant stop and start, the number of red lights, the bumper-to-bumper drivers, drivers that cut in, the road works and lane closures - quite frankly it can be stressful and put me in a real bad mood. Although the bus might not be much quicker, if I used it I would arrive right next to the shops and restaurants, chilled, relaxed, not wasted petrol in travelling an average of 7 mph for the last half an hour, and at no extra cost in parking than it would have been if I'd brought my car into town.

Each to their own though I guess!

Why is it you mention the traffic issues on Narborough Road when taking the bus but you fail to even hint at any delay when in your car?

Lugging bags around town? Oh god no! The horror of shopping.

Let's face it, if someone wants to do clothes shopping they'll just go to Fosse Park anyway.

The Park and Ride is more for the commuters, and i'm sure it will be a success.


Indeed, there will ALWAYS be some that choose their car over public transport no matter what; but at least this is an economical and eco-friendly (friendlier) option. Heck, with the Wi-Fi, you could even be productive on the way into town and get some work done (or doss around on your phone, whichever takes your fancy :) )!!

The fact is, figures don't lie. P+R's are successful, so we're bound to see more of them.

Anyone who is against them either has valid points concerning potential traffic build up around the P+R itself during peak hours, or they have some obscure phobia/hatred of buses and common sense.

Besides, once the congestion charges come into most cities which they probably will do in the next 10 years, you'll be singing the Park and Ride's praises.

I think you're all forgetting that the bus isn't using Narborough Road and is going down Hinckley Road instead which has a pre-existing bus lane.

Anyway, I know I would rather go into Leicester for any form of shopping. Fosse Park is for losers!

Park and Ride schemes may be great for reducing congestion on some routes, but what do you do if you DON'T have a car? You're still stuck with the infrequent, expensive bus services. These schemes do not provide an alternative to car use, they only supplement it.

I live near the city centre, and if I do need to go in to do shopping etc. I have a choice of a slow, unreliable, expensive bus "service" which now costs an outrageous £1.40 EACH WAY PER PASSENGER, for less than 1 bloody mile, and then still have to trudge half-way across the city centre, or I can drive there with my passengers at no extra cost and park for £1 behind Lee Circle. Or if I'm not going to be taking my cousin or my mum, or lugging things, I can walk.

The proposed Working Parking TAX is a blatant rip off. It's not the Council's land so businesses should be able to tell them to fuck off!!! What next? A tax for breathing?? :mad: As for putting the money into public transport, let's see, ahem, LCC you are forgetting something. We in Leicester don't HAVE "Public" Transport. So this means you'll be handing our hard-earned wages to the private companies who operate our buses, who already charge extortionate fares, in fact twice for the same journey if you need to change, DON'T run buses when and where we need them and DON'T have a central interchange, instead you have to trudge right across the city centre. :mad:

My example, living in Westcotes and working in Thurmaston = Bus journey around £100 per month and around 2 hours per DAY including waiting, trudge between bus stops and time wasted by getting there earlier than I need to.

Same journey in my car is ⅓ of the cost and ⅓ of the time. No prizes for guessing which one I choose.

LCC. Get this fiasco sorted and THEN think of encouraging people to use the wonderful Bus Services full of screaming brats, people coughing and sneezing their germs all over the place, ending their "service" ridiculously early in a lot of areas and charging the Earth for the privilege. Or stop wasting our Tax money on infrastructure for bus companies for which you have no responsibility, should you wish to maintain the status quo.


BG

Nice one captain.

Unless they reduce the cost of P&R, sort out better routes, join up routes, have a central interchange, have cross town east to west routes - then they are pissing in the wind...

£3 for a P&R ticket. For a car park in a field and some buses with a WI-FI box.

Other cities have trams that are cheaper than that and they are far, far more expensive to run...

Park and Ride schemes may be great for reducing congestion on some routes, but what do you do if you DON'T have a car? You're still stuck with the infrequent, expensive bus services. These schemes do not provide an alternative to car use, they only supplement it.

I live near the city centre, and if I do need to go in to do shopping etc. I have a choice of a slow, unreliable, expensive bus "service" which now costs an outrageous £1.40 EACH WAY PER PASSENGER, for less than 1 bloody mile, and then still have to trudge half-way across the city centre, or I can drive there with my passengers at no extra cost and park for £1 behind Lee Circle. Or if I'm not going to be taking my cousin or my mum, or lugging things, I can walk.

The proposed Working Parking TAX is a blatant rip off. It's not the Council's land so businesses should be able to tell them to fuck off!!! What next? A tax for breathing?? :mad: As for putting the money into public transport, let's see, ahem, LCC you are forgetting something. We in Leicester don't HAVE "Public" Transport. So this means you'll be handing our hard-earned wages to the private companies who operate our buses, who already charge extortionate fares, in fact twice for the same journey if you need to change, DON'T run buses when and where we need them and DON'T have a central interchange, instead you have to trudge right across the city centre. :mad:

My example, living in Westcotes and working in Thurmaston = Bus journey around £100 per month and around 2 hours per DAY including waiting, trudge between bus stops and time wasted by getting there earlier than I need to.

Same journey in my car is ⅓ of the cost and ⅓ of the time. No prizes for guessing which one I choose.

LCC. Get this fiasco sorted and THEN think of encouraging people to use the wonderful Bus Services full of screaming brats, people coughing and sneezing their germs all over the place, ending their "service" ridiculously early in a lot of areas and charging the Earth for the privilege. Or stop wasting our Tax money on infrastructure for bus companies for which you have no responsibility, should you wish to maintain the status quo.


BG


I don't think anyone would (or could) argue that the public transport system in Leicester isn't a shambles; and an expensive one at that. Much more needs to be done than just a few P&R schemes.... but, it is something at least. It would be great to start seeing a co-ordinated and progressive approach to dealing with the public transport issues - something not seen in the 6 years I've lived here, and doesn't appear to be forthcoming in the near future.

Arriva and First are private companies, set their own prices and routes based on demand etc. and I think them rather despicable if I'm honest the way that services are poorer year on year, yet the prices get higher and higher (and this is not unique to Leicester in any way, shape or form).

But let me get this right, are you suggesting that the Council(s) do nothing to support the bus infrastructure (such as bus lanes) and make these services even worse? If anything, I think they should be doing more to have a say in the way that these public services are provided, subsidise travel if and where possible, and be striving even harder to create alternative options for people to travel on public transport in a cheap and efficient manner.

As for the P&R, this is a joint venture between City and County councils, and whether you argue about the value of the spending £3 on parking there rather than in town, there will be people and businesses that will use this service and benefit from it. Park & Ride schemes should be a part of a comprehensive, cheap and efficient public transport network for the City - it is of course, not a replacement for one. But who has said that it is intended to be a replacement? I see it for what it is, and although I won't benefit from it personally, I can see its advantages for those that will use it, and that there are very few negatives to having it as an option for people in the County and City.

P&R scheme = Good
Uncoordinated and ad hoc approach to transport management = Bad

Or is this an example of where the Council can't do right for doing wrong (a favourite pastime on this MB of course!)? :)

It is good to see the use of P&R to try to ease congestion. I do still have issues with the implementation and I do blame the council for the fact that this is all they are planning to do. What else are they planning to do beside P&R?

Any answers?

It is good to see the use of P&R to try to ease congestion. I do still have issues with the implementation and I do blame the council for the fact that this is all they are planning to do. What else are they planning to do beside P&R?

Any answers?

I have no idea Lears mate, and like I say, P&R schemes alone will not suffice. The only public transport-related devlopments I have heard of in the last few years have all gone quiet. Any of the proposed new roads; dead. Those water taxis; dead. Improvement to cycle networks; dead. Mooted tram; dead. New bus terminal on Humberstone Gate; dead. Well, if these schemes are not dead, they're freaking comatose at the minute.

And the LCC website is about as useful as a chocolate teapot - http://www.leicester.gov.uk/your-council-services/transport-traffic/transportpolicy/sustainable-team-homepage/buses-public-transport/

You'd assume that somewhere they would have a Transport Strategy in place? Edit: http://www.leicester.gov.uk/your-council-services/transport-traffic/transportpolicy/ - click on pdf link.

But that can be said of most developments atm.... *sigh*

The truth is, we can't leave things as they are - it's bad enough now and it will get much worse. At least people are trying to solve the congestion issues, albeit with minor steps forward.

Park and Ride's don't take much imagination (ideal for LCC) but do go a little way in helping, however ultimately they are not the answer. We need a proper public transportation system that is truely a cheap alternative to using cars, and one that will benefit the entire city.

You're not the only ones fed up with a piss poor bus service, think yourselves lucky you have an alternative to the bus!!

It's actually not too bad on a monthly basis, you get travel across the Midlands with arriva for £39 a month so I can live with that.. what I can't live with is one bus every half an hour, a ridiculous route into the city, and delays.

But let me get this right, are you suggesting that the Council(s) do nothing to support the bus infrastructure (such as bus lanes) and make these services even worse?Actually I want the exact opposite to happen. Bring these services into public ownership and I'll be more than happy to see tax money going into improving them. However, the added congestion caused by all these extra bus lanes and traffic lights mean drivers pay MORE while the bus fares continue to go up and up and up.

I don't agree at all that people should compulsorily subsidize private companies via tax, which is what is happening in Leicester now. What happens to this money? It pays the fat cats' huge salaries and pensions, and it pays the shareholders' dividends.

IT EVIDENTLY DOES NOT KEEP FARES REASONABLE. NOR DOES IT ENSURE RELIABLE SERVICES, WHEN AND WHERE WE NEED THEM.

And the council are taking us for mugs by spending our money on roadworks/demolition of buildings (Humberstone Road for example) in order to improve the profit (sorry should that be efficiency?) of the bus operators. This is the responsibility of the companies who run the services, in the same way that rail companies originally bought the land to build their tracks, and businesses are responsible for buying the land to build their factories and offices on. The profit the bus companies are making should be ploughed back into improving the infrastructure. In other words they should pay for what they use. I expect taxi firms have to pay towards the provision of taxi ranks? Or are we subsidizing them as well? Then the council want to tax people for parking on their own land, to give to the greedy bus operators. :mad:

I believe that the main bus service should be in Public Ownership i.e. state run, as a Service, hence my comments about "Public" transport. I refuse to call it that if it is run by private companies for profit, instead of for the good of the public. You only need to go about 30 miles north to see the comparison. One ticket gets you wherever you want, for less money than a ticket which only covers about half the routes in Leicester.

I could also mention the cheap, frequent and RELIABLE Public Transport in European cities. Food for thought for the fuckwits who run our buses and trains. ON TIME means exactly that, 5 minutes after that time is LATE. People get sacked for that, so why is it OK for EMT to display ON TIME on their platform displays when the train clearly isn't? Not the first time I thought I'd missed one only for it to pull up as I was about to walk off the platform. And the buses in Leicester are notorious for their tardiness. I actually have been sacked because the first bus of the day consistently turned up 25 minutes late. Having walked into town to get it from the terminus, expecting there to be some delay between there and Aylestone Road, I found the bus didn't even get to the bloody station until I should have been half way to my workplace :mad:

Private companies are welcome to run special services, such as school runs, excursions, extra routes in between the regular services etc.. Maybe even a service to Magna Park? That would solve the problem of workers there who don't have a viable bus service at all. But their track record for the main bus services speaks for itself.


BG

How do we go about electing Captain Redeye into the Council? I like his style.

ALTHOUGH SOME PARTS OF THE POSTS MAKE ME LAUGH A LITTLE BIT

Totally valid points though, makes a lot of sense.

Wait...

There's no bus service to Magna Park?

But half the white collar jobs in the city are based there (if not more).

What are you supposed to do if you don't have a bloody car?