They will keep moving the slipform up two floors at a time and pouring in the concrete. The floor slabs will then be poured and joined up to the core (normally 2 floors or so behind the core). They will remove the slipform when they get to the top :)

So am i right in thinking that in the 2nd pic that Imre has just posted, they will pour concrete on top of the reinforcing bar then level and polish it and take away the sheets to leave a clean finished concrete ? ?

Sorry if this seems like a stupid question.

But I'm stupid

Thanks

Don't think they will bother polishing it, it is going to be covered in floor tiles anyway.

What exactly is a Slipform system and how does it work ?

Thx

There is a diagram here that gives you some ideas

http://www.tclonline.co.uk/process.htm



These photos were taken nearly 12 months ago (By Kevan, I think) at the Timeplace site, being built by the same company, It might explain a little.

http://i13.tinypic.com/6fqqse0.jpg

http://i18.tinypic.com/4trn7ld.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/63voe9l.jpg

http://i15.tinypic.com/4ptt56d.jpg

http://i17.tinypic.com/54b54cx.jpg

http://i8.tinypic.com/54jfsci.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/4yova7l.jpg

^^

Thanks for that Mackie,

That helps a novice Tower watcher to understand what is happening in the pics,

Nice one. :cheers:

http://www.tclonline.co.uk/process.htm

There is a diagram here that gives you some ideas

Thank you Mackie1964, that explians it very well.:)

Yes Thanks Mackie, tell me is there any difference in the strength of a tower, between the two forms of raising it, it looks as though the jump method has joins, and the slip is continuous.

Alan

Update from DS:
One of the Hydraulic rams visible on the slip form which allows the slip form frame work to extend as the core is cast.

https://mydubai.dubaiselect.com/media/img/torch/fullsize/T-2007-06-29-image9.jpg

The bent upwards rebar is where the floor slabs will eventually be joined to the core of the tower.

https://mydubai.dubaiselect.com/media/img/torch/fullsize/T-2007-06-29-image8.jpg

The rebar for the core, very high standard of work as well. The red steel being the framing of the slip form.


https://mydubai.dubaiselect.com/media/img/torch/fullsize/T-2007-06-29-image6.jpg

The 4th basement level is the ground level of the floor slab then the 3rd floor slab is the next section up and the most visible floor slab here on the right of the picture is the 2nd basement level.


https://mydubai.dubaiselect.com/media/img/torch/fullsize/T-2007-06-29-image5.jpg


2nd basement floor slab is being prepared using table form work created here using scaffolding and plywood sheets. This is now almost ready for casting also


https://mydubai.dubaiselect.com/media/img/torch/fullsize/T-2007-06-29-image4.jpg



The next section of the core to be cast will be 3m, which will be close to brining the development out of the ground. The rebar has been extended as visible in the above picture, each of the 2 lift wells can be seen, which will house 4 lifts each.
This construction method allows each side of the floor slabs to be created separately in sections and also separate to the core, so any slight hold ups and the rest of the development can continue construction.

https://mydubai.dubaiselect.com/media/img/torch/fullsize/T-2007-06-29-image3.jpg


Rebar visible above ground :banana:

https://mydubai.dubaiselect.com/media/img/torch/fullsize/T-2007-06-29-image2.jpg

Section of the 2nd basement floor slab has been cast as have all the columns that will support the 1st basement level. It is clearly visible that the rebar of the columns does now actually stick out above the ground level. The sheer walls have all the rebar extended and are ready to be cast.

https://mydubai.dubaiselect.com/media/img/torch/fullsize/T-2007-06-29-image1.jpg


And finally for some reason this is my favourite picture. Maybe it is because it is the first picture from INSIDE the Torch :banana: :banana: :banana:


https://mydubai.dubaiselect.com/media/img/torch/fullsize/T-2007-06-29-image7.jpg


Enjoy

Anjam :cheers:

thanks for the update anjam. it seems that construction is progressing with renewed speed...

I can see Naz's allocated parking place on that last pic. :banana:

have all of the one b/r apartments sold out?
or there are still any left so that we can buy directly from the developer?

Thanks!

there are defintely 2 BR ones left. You’ll need to check with Dubai Select directly to see if any 1 BR are or have become available.

I can see Naz's allocated parking place on that last pic. :banana:

Woudln't Naz just love it if his parking was allocated on the very bottom floor in the very far corner!

I would glady sacrifice a shit parking spot for beautifully decked out interiors! Anyday!

I would glady sacrifice a shit parking spot for beautifully decked out interiors! Anyday!

Here Here,

Can any skyscraper fans answer the following;

I've heard that in supertall buildings at the top floors the building actualy sways or moves in windy conditions.

Firstly what is this phenomena known as ?

Secondly how much would a 1,000 foot tall building like the Torch actualy move around up there ?

Thirdly can you feel it move when your up that high ?

Any comments appreciated,

^^ It is called sway ... A concrete tower will move less then one build out of steel but how much it depends what the enginers have calculated it would and what they have included in the design to compensate for it (dumper, stiffer concrete etc)

However more then the sway itself, is the acceleration that creates most of the problems.

Can any skyscraper fans answer the following;

I've heard that in supertall buildings at the top floors the building actualy sways or moves in windy conditions.

Firstly what is this phenomena known as ?

Secondly how much would a 1,000 foot tall building like the Torch actualy move around up there ?

Thirdly can you feel it move when your up that high ?

Any comments appreciated,

^^ I am no expert but from my understanding all modern supertall buildings sway.

Here is an example:

From the official statistics, available at the CN Tower website (www.cntower.ca):

In a 120 KPH breeze, there is this much sway:

Antenna mast (highest part): 1.07 meters (about 3 1/2)
SkyPod (Upper observation deck): .46 meters (1 1/2 feet)
Lookout (Open observation deck): 22.9 centimeters (9 inches)

With those kind of lateral movements I doubt anyone is going to get sea sick :puke:

^^ I am no expert but from my understanding all modern supertall buildings sway.

Here is an example:

From the official statistics, available at the CN Tower website (www.cntower.ca):

In a 120 KPH breeze, there is this much sway:

Antenna mast (highest part): 1.07 meters (about 3 1/2)
SkyPod (Upper observation deck): .46 meters (1 1/2 feet)
Lookout (Open observation deck): 22.9 centimeters (9 inches)

With those kind of lateral movements I doubt anyone is going to get sea sick :puke:

They call 120 KPH a breeze ?? Wouldn't like to be up there when it gets windy then !!:lol:

there are defintely 2 BR ones left. You’ll need to check with Dubai Select directly to see if any 1 BR are or have become available.

they've sold 18 apartments so far:gaah:

hey....guys,
don't have to be skyscraper or supertall buildings!
it swings back and forth when strong wind blowing!
i live on the 14th floor of a building in hong kong.
it sways in days of typhoon.
i can clearly feel it swaying...
not that terrible!

Hey Hate Torch,

Any chance of a pic of the latest happenings on the old Emaar sales center plot please ?

Thanks,

i live on the 14th floor of a building in hong kong.
it sways in days of typhoon.


Wow…. if it is so on the 14th floor, picture what the 80th floor is going to be like

^^ Is not that simple of a calculation.

I found this interesting, it answers a few questions

http://www.fig.net/pub/fig2007/papers/ts_4g/ts04g_01_ho_1673.pdf

05-July-2007, GMT+4

http://i8.tinypic.com/4pnodmr.jpg

Nice to see that the core has shot up finally.

i've tried to leave my contact to Dubai Select on the website, but no one calls back to me.



there are defintely 2 BR ones left. You’ll need to check with Dubai Select directly to see if any 1 BR are or have become available.

i've tried to leave my contact to Dubai Select on the website, but no one calls back to me.

Perhaps there's a problem with the website....... I suggest you pick up the phone and contact them on 0870-111-0000

And make sure you tell them that Mackie gave Morris the number to give to you, I believe it is £2,000 now for referral :)

And make sure you tell them that Mackie gave Morris the number to give to you, I believe it is £2,000 now for referral :)

It used to be 1% of Purchase Price but I now believe it is £1,000.

I would personally forget the 2 bed and take one of the penthouses and tell them that Jet recommended you buy that. Then I'll be campaigning hard for a return to 1% of Purchase Price :)

Yes it's a flat £1,000 per referral but you can choose instead to have £2,000 off your next DS purchase. But I reckon you could negotiate something a little better if your referral friend bought a penthouse.

Remember, say Morris sent you.

:lol:

haha....sure! pls wait for the money!

06/July/2007

The Torch , the core reached the street level

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/373/imresolt097dc2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/903/imresolt098od7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/51/imresolt099ik4.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt099ik4.jpg)http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2929/imresolt100oh7.th.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt100oh7.jpg)http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/4785/imresolt101es1.th.jpg (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt101es1.jpg)http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4149/imresolt102zj4.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt102zj4.jpg)http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/1863/imresolt103oo5.th.jpg (http://img184.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt103oo5.jpg)

According to that board, the completion date is 09-09-09...:shifty: the conspiracy unfolds..

HateTorch and Imre,
Many thanks for the updates. Next time I am in Dubai I will hunt you guys down and buy you a :cheers: or two !

Will The Torch's podium be bigger than Princess' it certainly looks that way from the photos ??

^^ Yes it is.

I have heard people on these forums talk about "approved towers", when discussing what construction activity might be.

Can anyone tell me who,where doe sthis approval come from ?

And is it available to the public ?

Thanks.

Hi Morrismarina, I remember you telling me a while back you had bought here at the Torch, right? If you don't mind me asking, what floor are you on? It's cool if you don't want to say:okay:

Well, it's at ground level now so it's looking like you've only got two more years to party-on-down right?:lol: :cheers: According to that board anyway...

^^

I very much doubt he has invested in the Torch. The man's comments across much of the forum suggests to me he works for Dubai Select. - A PR man to promote the reputation of DS on the forum.

Well, Mr Morrisman - all I have to say about DS is that - "Action speaks louder the words". Question : If Emaar suggest completion of a 42 storey tower (like the Promenade ( a complex of 6 towers) in 3 years (2005 - 2008). What timeframe can DS with their track record of never ever building anything realistically complete the Torch ( a tower with 84 floor) . OK, Lets be easy of DS, they are newcomers on the block. Surely they can complete the Point ( a 27 storey tower) in 2 years. Oh, by the way the Point is still on ground level as well. Hey Krazy - are we allowed to place bets on the forum? I have one for Mr Morrisman :)

''

^^ Buster, just because the man is a bit excited and has a little faith in the developer he has invested his hard earned cash with does not mean he works for them. I really do hope DS prove you wrong and that their towers do start to rise which I am sure of. At the end of the day you know as well as the rest of us its not just DS that have had delays so lighten up a bit:cheers:

^^

I very much doubt he has invested in the Torch. The man's comments across much of the forum suggests to me he works for Dubai Select. - A PR man to promote the reputation of DS on the forum.

Well, Mr Morrisman - all I have to say about DS is that - "Action speaks louder the words". Question : If Emaar suggest completion of a 42 storey tower (like the Promenade ( a complex of 6 towers) in 3 years (2005 - 2008). What timeframe can DS with their track record of never ever building anything realistically complete the Torch ( a tower with 84 floor) . OK, Lets be easy of DS, they are newcomers on the block. Surely they can complete the Point ( a 27 storey tower) in 2 years. Oh, by the way the Point is still on ground level as well. Hey Krazy - are we allowed to place bets on the forum? I have one for Mr Morrisman :)

^^ Once a tower has been designed and contracts awarded to good companies like DCE and NEB, I don't think the developer's track record(or lack of as the case may be) comes into play. The construction company constructs and the overseeing architects oversee to make sure they are building as per design. The developers could be car salesmen for all that matters. As long as they have the right teams in place and have management and sales skills to sell the property, which we know DS are good at, they shouldn't have too much involvement on a day to day basis. All DS need to do is make sure the money keeps floowing into the contractors at the agreed milestones.

That's my understanding anyway, feel free to shoot me down :gunz:

Hi Morrismarina, I remember you telling me a while back you had bought here at the Torch, right? If you don't mind me asking, what floor are you on? It's cool if you don't want to say:okay:

Well, it's at ground level now so it's looking like you've only got two more years to party-on-down right?:lol: :cheers: According to that board anyway...

Hi Tate, I've bought a one bed on the 8th floor (it's numbered 8th but is in fact 14 floors from the ground).

^^

I very much doubt he has invested in the Torch. The man's comments across much of the forum suggests to me he works for Dubai Select. - A PR man to promote the reputation of DS on the forum.

Well, Mr Morrisman - all I have to say about DS is that - "Action speaks louder the words". Question : If Emaar suggest completion of a 42 storey tower (like the Promenade ( a complex of 6 towers) in 3 years (2005 - 2008). What timeframe can DS with their track record of never ever building anything realistically complete the Torch ( a tower with 84 floor) . OK, Lets be easy of DS, they are newcomers on the block. Surely they can complete the Point ( a 27 storey tower) in 2 years. Oh, by the way the Point is still on ground level as well. Hey Krazy - are we allowed to place bets on the forum? I have one for Mr Morrisman :)


While you're at it how about placing bets on Pinnacle, Princess, Ocean Heights, Elite Residences, Marina 23, Infinity, etc. .......or do you just bet on DS developments ?? :ohno:

Lets bet whether or not we are going to get a picture from Imre or Hatetorch today!

Is it having a go at Morris day? Can I join in :lol:

Nah........I better stay friends for now until the next round :)

Common Imre, It is Friday lunchtime :banana:

Any update today 'Mr. HateTorch'??

Oh Dear, here we go again, Mr. Buster007 having a go at someone at the Torch, if you read your threads you would know about the cause of delay's, for all developers, and yes I have 2 x 2 beroom apatments on the 43rd floor Okay, no I don't work for DS, and I am extremely happy the way that company conducts its business. I also have other interests in the Marina and commercially, so I have a comparison, do you?

Alan G

^^

The man's comments across much of the forum suggests to me he works for Dubai Select.

OK let's get to the issue - which of my recent posts "across much of the forum" are you unhappy about then ??

While you're at it how about placing bets on Pinnacle, Princess, Ocean Heights, Elite Residences, Marina 23, Infinity, etc. .......or do you just bet on DS developments ?? :ohno:

I dont see any of the developers of the towers you have mentioned above announcing new projects.
Hey - already lost some funds on DS so happy to stick with DS as i now know the territory well. :)

Comments like this give u away

Yes it's a flat £1,000 per referral but you can choose instead to have £2,000 off your next DS purchase. But I reckon you could negotiate something a little better if your referral friend bought a penthouse.

On the Baycentral forum:

Happy to receive 1% LIBOR as compensation payment from DS after u claim to be 90% paid into the Torch development. Cant understand why any property investor would be in such a position with a developer, and still be confident to further invest in another project (i.e u saying u bought in Baycentral). :nuts:

^^ God, you are good, you must be a PI.

Shame on you Morris, you had me believing that you were a real investor :lol:

Can you send me some more champagne please.....:lol:

Great bust.......buster007, I should have seen it myself :lol:

Morris; you are busted, the 007 style.

Explain yourself young man. You can't trust anybody these days. :ohno::banana:

I dont see any of the developers of the towers you have mentioned above announcing new projects.
Hey - already lost some funds on DS so happy to stick with DS as i now know the territory well. :)

Comments like this give u away

Yes it's a flat £1,000 per referral but you can choose instead to have £2,000 off your next DS purchase. But I reckon you could negotiate something a little better if your referral friend bought a penthouse.

On the Baycentral forum:

Happy to receive 1% LIBOR as compensation payment from DS after u claim to be 90% paid into the Torch development. Cant understand why any property investor would be in such a position with a developer, and still be confident to further invest in another project (i.e u saying u bought in Baycentral). :nuts:

things have been so quiet, it's almost reassuring to see the asylum has re-opened its doors.

incoherence 10/10:nuts:
grammar 0/10:lol:
mastery of english 0/10:bash:
rational thought 0/10:ohno:
non-compliance with psychtropic medication 10/10:rofl:
chances of me having a beer with this guy 10/10:cheers:

contribution to the thread..........................priceless:cheer:

my basement apartment gets curtains on monday

Hi Tate, I've bought a one bed on the 8th floor (it's numbered 8th but is in fact 14 floors from the ground).

Very nice indeed:) Hopefully it will be just the two years you will have to wait before the house-warming parties get underway:lol: :cheers: :banana:

Maybe I'm a little too optimistic for my own good at times... but I think everything will be just fine here... this should rise quickly. Two years is a pretty good time frame to complete a building of this magnitude.

Hmmm... who gives a crap who works for DS or who doesn't work for DS eh? After reading several posts here it's quite obvious that there are lots of people here who are perfectly happy with the way DS conduct their business... so, who gives a toss?

If these people are happy with the way their investments are being handled by DS, or whoever else then that's all that matters! I think these investors are smart enough to know what they're doing... I mean I can't see them handing over their last few bucks (unless they are complete morons!) and putting themselves inches from living on the streets:ohno: :nuts: :bash:

The voice of reason at last, from Mr.Tate.

This is the scenario, in a couple of months, Emmar announce a low rise hotel and shopping mall will be built in front of, and along side the Torch, that means Torch owners will get uninterrupted views of the Marina, all apartments sold out, building rises at 2 floors a week, DS start the inside construction of the lower floors when the building reaches the 40th floor, prices on the Marina just cannot be had for less the 3000 sq ft, a one bed on the 14th floor goes for 5 million Dirhams, (that's for you Morris) and handover begins in December 2008.

Alan, Never known to be a complete Moron, just a small one

I dont see any of the developers of the towers you have mentioned above announcing new projects.



I had no idea that DS were still announcing new projects, please enlighten us all as I'll need to get Krazy to open some new threads a.s.a.p. :lol:

Date: 15 July 2007

That thing is getting higher ... :(

http://i8.tinypic.com/6go7rxw.jpg

Thanks for the update Hatetorch - BTW that phone of yours takes amazing pictures. :)

very good progress :)

i agree progress is improving

is there a prize for the 1000th post?:cheers:

^^ Yes there is, you can take the "noob" T-shirt off:lol:

is there a prize for the 1000th post?:cheers:

:lol: Bet Morrismarina is raging he missed that one. :lol:

Progress is picking up now, just hope they don't lose that impetus by firefighting management (everyone up to the Point for a couple weeks to show some progress there, etc)

I expect to see this reach the 12th "residential floor" by the 1 year milestone (based on the start date quoted on the notice board). Go on DCE prove me wrong :D

Hi

Now that the "Noob" shirt is vacant maybe we should use it as a prize for a competition.

A "Noob" will be awarded to the lady or gentleman who guesses closest to the complete floor reached (from the outside) at the start of 6th December.

On the event of a tie the Noob will be shared ( ie 2 winners = 6 months each).

Any takers?

^^ What size would the t-shirt be? The winners might be one size XXS and the other XXL. What will happen in this case? :dunno:

improvise!!:lol:


^^ What size would the t-shirt be? The winners might be one size XXS and the other XXL. What will happen in this case? :dunno:

Anyone know if financing is available for the Torch yet apart from the DS lengthy payment plan ?

^^ Read something about HSBC. Not sure when or where I am afraid :ohno: Sorry for the useless bit of info !

^^ found out that Mashreq now lend on the Torch and The Point at 80% LTV. (70% for non residents?)

So Torch owners on the payment plan could now remortgage and take out some cash from the current valuation.

^^ Steve, any idea on interest rates? How will they value uncomplete properties or will they use original purchase prices?

Only problem I foresee is that currently the properties are not earning money so your salary will be taken into account. Very few UK investors will qualify considering they will already have at least one mortgage here in the UK. If it wasn't for the non status payment plan from DS many Torch Owners wouldn't have been in a position to buy.

Let us know if you get any further info.

^^ http://www.smartmoves-dubai.com/additional_pages.php?id=2

Interest rate:

 Non-resident Customers
• 7.25% fixed rate for 2years then 4.25% plus 1 yr EIBOR for all LTV's

Max loan amount: 80 % LTV

Debt-to-income ratio: 55%

Insurance requirements: Mandatory life & property Insurance

Down Payment: 20%

Minimum Salary: AED 8,000.00

Bank Account Necessary: Mashreqbank A/C Mandatory

Charges: 1% of loan amount or AED 10,000 whichever is less

 Dubai Select
• The Point, Dubai Marina
• The Torch, Dubai Marina

Documentation Required:

 Non Resident (Salaried Customers):
• Application form
• Passport copy
• Salary certificate
• Previous employment certificate if less than year
• Bank statements – 6 months
• Liability letter ( if any)
• Property documents – sale agreement
• Proof of down payments
• Reference letter/KYC from the banker
• Credit Bureau Report( as applicable)
• Tax Returns from home country for last 2 years
• Utility Bills, Rent contracts for proof of address

^^ http://www.smartmoves-dubai.com/additional_pages.php?id=2

Interest rate:

 Non-resident Customers
• 7.25% fixed rate for 2years then 4.25% plus 1 yr EIBOR for all LTV's

Max loan amount: 80 % LTV

Debt-to-income ratio: 55%

Insurance requirements: Mandatory life & property Insurance

Down Payment: 20%

Minimum Salary: AED 8,000.00

Bank Account Necessary: Mashreqbank A/C Mandatory

Charges: 1% of loan amount or AED 10,000 whichever is less

 Dubai Select
• The Point, Dubai Marina
• The Torch, Dubai Marina

Documentation Required:

 Non Resident (Salaried Customers):
• Application form
• Passport copy
• Salary certificate
• Previous employment certificate if less than year
• Bank statements – 6 months
• Liability letter ( if any)
• Property documents – sale agreement
• Proof of down payments
• Reference letter/KYC from the banker
• Credit Bureau Report( as applicable)
• Tax Returns from home country for last 2 years
• Utility Bills, Rent contracts for proof of address

any finance guy over here who can compare this with DS long term finance and advice in simple terms the difference.....:bash:

^^ Steve, any idea on interest rates? How will they value uncomplete properties or will they use original purchase prices?

Only problem I foresee is that currently the properties are not earning money so your salary will be taken into account. Very few UK investors will qualify considering they will already have at least one mortgage here in the UK. If it wasn't for the non status payment plan from DS many Torch Owners wouldn't have been in a position to buy.

Let us know if you get any further info.

There are no lenders in Dubai that do proper Buy To Let mortgages, as we know them in the UK. All want to use your own personal income when assessing affordability. As yet none will use solely the rental income from the property.

any finance guy over here who can compare this with DS long term finance and advice in simple terms the difference.....:bash:


The difference is with a Dubai mortgage you have to prove your income to the lender. With DS long term payment plan there is no need to do this - so long as you have a 30% "deposit" available finance is agreed for everybody. Also DS do not require you to take any life cover and there are no set-up fees.

^^ Yes the DS payment plan is by far the best way to go if buying and also the lowest interest rate. I am only looking at other finance for further investment etc. by remortgaging in order to take out some equity and payments already made for the Torch and by changing to 80% LTV etc.

dear investors

what type of interior finishing do you think we will see in the torch, i mean the quiality of interior goods used? can anyone compare to JBR?

what will we expect?

Isn't 4.25% plus 1 yr EIBOR a tad expensive. Would only take this if desparate!

I think the DS payment plan is a cracking deal. Best thing about it is it doesn't effect your credit rating and enables you to take out other loans/mortgages here in the UK.

The DS deal works out at about 7% which is expensive by current € rates but not too bad by £ or US$ rates. I originally assumed it was going to be expensive but when I looked into it with my accountant, it's really a good deal all things considered. No credit history required, no life cover required, no setup fees, fixed rate of interest, no buyout fees and just pay the outstanding nett balance to clear the loan at any time AND if you are € or £ based the repayments are actually reducing all the time as the US$ continues to fall AND Dubai Select are going to operate a management scheme AND The Torch is now registered with Interval International for Vacation Ownership Exchange.:yes:

The DS scheme is a cracking deal, when you consider the documentation required to buy property, any property, even in established markets around the world, and remember Dubai is in it's Infancy and finding it's feet, that's why Mortgages are hard to find there, when the properties are built and going up in value, and lettings are possible, and they see a long term future, then the Banks will open up, especially the western ones, I am not sure the Islamic banks like the idea of making money yet, most developers, just sell you the place, and expect you to get your financing in order, any developer like DS that gives you it's own easy payment plan especially a 15 year one must have total faith in it's ability to produce the goods, they are all leading the way, and now have introduced the Escrow account way ahaead of the law that may require it soon.

ALan

^^ Yes there is, you can take the "noob" T-shirt off:lol:

that's rich. anyway i worked hard for it and i'm keeping it.:applause:

by the way, have all the moderators gone on vacation or died? i remember the day (in another guise) when you would get abused and threatened with a ban for all the this investment talk, never mind the chat about decor........:)

how much per square foot to sell in the torch TODAY?:wink2:

and do i get another prize for my 50th post? it's like oscar night at my place..........................

Wow.......with all this positive comment about DS we'll all be accused of being employed by them. :lol: :lol::lol:

and do i get another prize for my 50th post? it's like oscar night at my place..........................

Yes Barry.......you've won a Big Mac with large fries. :lol:

Yes Barry.......you've won a Big Mac with large fries. :lol:

cheers morris, i'll get the red wig out of mothballs:cheers:

Wow.......with all this positive comment about DS we'll all be accused of being employed by them. :lol: :lol::lol:

you bet, the july bonus is gonna be a biggie! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

by the way, at the current rate of chat we will overtake the JBR post count around the end of July 2009!
COME ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

^^ You don't need to tell me twice!

Come on, BRING IT!!!!!!!!:lol:

Yes Barry.......you've won a Big Mac with large fries. :lol:

No morris....barry gets the Big mac on 50 alright but he has to wait until the 100th post to receive the large fries.:lol: :lol:

Nothing but pure greed IMO!!!:lol: :lol:

you bet, the july bonus is gonna be a biggie! :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

What about the Xmas bonus?:cheers: :lol:

:) Don’t tell him that…. at this rate, he’ll catch his 100 post very soon.

that's rich. anyway i worked hard for it and i'm keeping it.:applause:

by the way, have all the moderators gone on vacation or died? i remember the day (in another guise) when you would get abused and threatened with a ban for all the this investment talk, never mind the chat about decor........:)

how much per square foot to sell in the torch TODAY?:wink2:

And you can bloody well keep it too mate!:lol: :lol:

Hmm...all the moderators do seem to have gone on vacation...or have shuffled off this mortal coil to the great plains of Dubai in the sky... oh well, it's a free-for-all guys!!!:lol: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :lol:

RIOT!!!:dance:

No idea how much per square foot to sell at the torch barry... I suggest you have words with our main man down there at DS... a certain Mr. Morrismarina!;) :lol: :lol:

:) Don’t tell him that…. at this rate, he’ll catch his 100 post very soon.

And we can't allow that now can we!?;) :lol: :lol:

Stop the talk about Big Mac and Fries, as I have just come back from Weight Watchers, and we talked about salads, and food that you had to blow "TORCH" the tops.

This is the new rule to stop you getting barred, you must mention the Torch in your posts, the person who can manage the most in a post, wins a new Penthouse Apartment, worth a zillion dillion Dirhams.

Al

^^ :lol: :lol:

20/July/2007

The Torch

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/3299/imresolt138kp7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/1286/imresolt139nn2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4286/imresolt140cl1.th.jpg (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt140cl1.jpg)http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5062/imresolt141op9.th.jpg (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt141op9.jpg)http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4647/imresolt142sp4.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt142sp4.jpg)http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/648/imresolt143ju4.th.jpg (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt143ju4.jpg)http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7609/imresolt145za7.th.jpg (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt145za7.jpg)

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9901/imresolt153yx4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:omg: I don't believe it, a post actually relating to The Torch. Well done Imre.

^^ Yes finally. In fact I haven't read this thread for ages, let's keep it on topic now :)

Yes I totally agree. Although I don't put many posts on this site, but I rely on information from the likes of Imre,krazy and a few dedicated forum posters.
Thanks keep it up.

Thanks Imre, great update. Great to see it finally rising out of the ground. At this rate not long before the Torch catches up with Marina Pinnacle across the road!

^^ Yes finally. In fact I haven't read this thread for ages, let's keep it on topic now :)

^^ Agreed. Come on guys lets keep to the topic in hand.

If you want to chat off topic there is a hidden feature on this forum where you can chat all you like and the mods will never see it. To access the chat area hit ALT + F4 on your keyboards together.

Enjoy!

Thanks Imre, great update. Great to see it finally rising out of the ground. At this rate not long before the Torch catches up with Marina Pinnacle across the road!

Yes, so nice to finally see the Torch stretching out of the ground like that... onwards and upwards now:) :banana: :banana:

^^ Agreed. Come on guys lets keep to the topic in hand.

If you want to chat off topic there is a hidden feature on this forum where you can chat all you like and the mods will never see it. To access the chat area hit ALT + F4 on your keyboards together.

Enjoy!

Doesn't seem to work for some reason......must have a problem with my PC.:lol:

There's the link for all the Torch chit-chat set up by Krazy a little while back:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=321509


Ahhhhhh.......those were days, slagging off Scooby was great fun :lol:

Doesn't seem to work for some reason......must have a problem with my PC.:lol:

There's the link for all the Torch chit-chat set up by Krazy a little while back:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=321509


Ahhhhhh.......those were days, slagging off Scooby was great fun :lol:

Morris- You must have a dodgy keyboard, works for me everytime:lol:

Regarding the thread you mentioned- Blimey ! You guys were really at it then weren't you? No wonder people think you're on the DS payroll!

Morris- You must have a dodgy keyboard, works for me everytime:lol:

Regarding the thread you mentioned- Blimey ! You guys were really at it then weren't you? No wonder people think you're on the DS payroll!

Yes we had a proper TT thread going in the good old days.......you could buy a three bed in the Torch for AED 50,000 and everybody was from Yorkshire and we told people straight what we thought of 'em......we had real Hovis for tea.........and everybody worked down the mill and for DS at weekends.

:lol:

^^ Sounds good to me.:lol: :lol:

Yes I totally agree. Although I don't put many posts on this site, but I rely on information from the likes of Imre,krazy and a few dedicated forum posters.
Thanks keep it up.

i'm your man:wink2:

dear investors

what type of interior finishing do you think we will see in the torch, i mean the quiality of interior goods used? can anyone compare to JBR?

what will we expect?

Some rather strange/ugly looking interior designs from the select property website for the Torch


http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1045/bath1qp1.jpg

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/6402/bed1nz8.jpg

I think someone needs to sack the interior designer. Bathroom looks way too cluttered and what is that bath ! :puke:

^^ No, not sacked, put behind bars more like!:bash:

What's with that bathroom?:puke: Just horrendous!:ohno: I personally wouldn't pay for this rubbish!:toilet:

Just had to check the date, not anywhere near April yet!

Who did the interiors, Heath Robinson? I like the bread crate for a mirror idea, a la Blue Peter :lol:

^^

I dont know why those pictures are there cause most of whats in them arn't included anyway.

As far as i know in the bathrooms all you get are ceramic bath,w/c,sink and stanless steel taps.

In the bedrooms you get an empty room so i cant understand why these pics show beds and stuff.

I have some actual pictures of what fittings will be used from doors, handles, hinges to sinks and tiolet roll holders and taps but i cant upload them for some reason.

yes but WTF is that shower attachment. Does not go with that bath, would be water everywhere. Need a separate shower if you want an old style bath like that.

Some rather strange/ugly looking interior designs from the select property website for the Torch


http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1045/bath1qp1.jpg

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/6402/bed1nz8.jpg

I think someone needs to sack the interior designer. Bathroom looks way too cluttered and what is that bath ! :puke:

^^ I think they need to employ an interior designer in the first place! The sales department probably came up with those designs after reading interior design for dummies!

I know the bed isn't included but can I just add that I hate those beds where the mattress dosen't go all the way to the edge!

yes but WTF is that shower attachment. Does not go with that bath, would be water everywhere. Need a separate shower if you want an old style bath like that.

Steve, they have got a seperate power shower. It is attached to the wall, they just forgot to add the cubicle.

On a serious note I don't think any thought has gone into that design at all. The water from the shower would hardley reach you the bath is so far away. The showcurtain is useless and you would forever bang you head against those shelves while trying to have a shower.

It's a joke if you ask me.

for what i understood on a call with DS a few months ago, the above rubbish is the furniture package option(at extra charge).

to be quite frank, it is a disappointment. looks like it came out of some Homebase or Argos clearance.

Do the tiles not go all the way up to the ceiling then. Some nice wet walls (and shelves!) to look forward to when showering :lol:

^^ Yeah, and that's not all you'll have to look forward to, what about the extra cost when you need to make regular trips to the ER every time you take a shower with those shelves knocking 7 bells out of you:lol: :lol:

Can someone contact DS for clarification?

Maybe some lobbying will get them to modify the design if this is the plan

I think these interiors are just mockups. Very unlikely they are the final designs. I will contact DS and see if they can shed some light. I have a contact at DCE but it is unlikely they will know anything at this stage.

After seeing some of the interiors in JBR and these concept designs I am thinking it maybe worth badgering DS for details before they finalise anything. I just don't understand why in many of the towers they use such darkwood for doors and kitchens making small apartments look even smaller. Some of the floors in JBR are hideous and that floor in the boothroom picture above reminds me of a TV that we had when I was tiny and it never picked up any channels!

I will send DS an email on behalf of ther ownersgroup and see what they say.

It has to be a "before" picture from there Bulgarian terraced house's no one could actually put that together if they tried, Unbelievable, Unbelievable, there I said it twice it's so bad.

Alan

if you call DS, they would give you the answer
" it is an old option which is not mandatory for customers to use"

you all are just worrying over nothing...:lol:

OH NOOOOOOOOOOO:badnews:

:lol: ^^ :lol: :lol: ^^ :lol:

if you call DS, they would give you the answer
" it is an old option which is not mandatory for customers to use"

you all are just worrying over nothing...:lol:

I don't understand this at all. What is an old option ?? Having a bath, toilet, wash basin and shower ? I've never been given any options about anything. If they're referring to the "furniture package" then this will not of course include the bath & shower etc. as these are not furniture.
Whatever this "old option" is, it needs removing from the website immediately and replaced by the "new option" whatever that may be. No point having outdated info on the website. How can they attract potential purchasers with this stuff showing.:nuts:

I have seen a plot for sale in district 10 of dubai marina, the same district as where the torch is the plot is for sale for AED 250,000,000 G+ UNLIMITED. 37,000 SQ2 FOOT

I FEAR THE WORST IS THIS PLOT IN FRONT OF THE TORCH?

^^ Already discussed in other threads.

^^

AltinD,

This may well have been discussed in other threads and obviously nobody knows exactly what is going to be built in front of the Torch yet, but in my opinion what ends up being built in front of the Torch and Marina Heights will be the key factor in deciding how profitable from an investment point of view the Torch will be.

As I beleive this thread is called The Torch perhaps there should be more talk about what is going on with those plots.

I can guarantee you that if a supertall building goes up in front of the Torch nobody will care what kind of bath and shower arrangements are in the units.

I think this issue deserves more discussion here, not less.

^^

AltinD,

This may well have been discussed in other threads and obviously nobody knows exactly what is going to be built in front of the Torch yet, but in my opinion what ends up being built in front of the Torch and Marina Heights will be the key factor in deciding how profitable from an investment point of view the Torch will be.

As I beleive this thread is called The Torch perhaps there should be more talk about what is going on with those plots.

I can guarantee you that if a supertall building goes up in front of the Torch nobody will care what kind of bath and shower arrangements are in the units.

I think this issue deserves more discussion here, not less.

Somehow i think the views of the Marina are way overrated. I prefer a view on the ever busy Creek istead of the boring Marina.
A good location and nice designed apartments are also more important.

Maybe, but not when you pay 10 to 20% more for the apartment because it comes with a marina view as opposed a tower view.

Somehow i think the views of the Marina are way overrated. I prefer a view on the ever busy Creek istead of the boring Marina.
A good location and nice designed apartments are also more important.

Go live on the creek then. The marina when finished will be a hive of action and I for one would want a view of this and not of someone elses living room.
You have to be naive if you think a marina view would not make a difference in selling price.

Somehow i think the views of the Marina are way overrated. I prefer a view on the ever busy Creek istead of the boring Marina.
A good location and nice designed apartments are also more important.

I think you have missed the point my friend.

I was only saying, as Dubai Steve reiterated, "if you buy an appartment with a marina view and end up looking at 350 meters of vertical concrete it will have a detrimental effect on your invetsment".

If you think that a good location and a well designed apartment will overcome a view of a tower block from every window then i have to say i dissagree.

Try puting a sheet of 8x4 plywood in front of your window and then tell me how beautifull the "ever busy creek" is.

:ohno:

i paid for a marina facing aparment high up floor 48. if their is something blocking my view and ds dont reimburse me im going to find that mr stott or whatever his name is and cut of his bollocks.

being lied to is what pisses me off and most probably other investors.
We have to find out a.s.a.p about this plot in front of the torch.
i am currently doing my research and will try and find out some info.

any news investors and bits of info about this plot would help my research.

i have a "sea view", and prefer the extra size you get & the layout. (1 bedroom in the teens) mind you cant deny the attraction of a view.

is the new completion date realistic

i have a "sea view", and prefer the extra size you get & the layout. (1 bedroom in the teens) mind you cant deny the attraction of a view.

"Sea view" from a 1 bed unit in the teens. :nuts:

What are you gonna do paint a sea view on the towers between the Torch and the sea.

Good luck, I hear michealangelo is looking for some work

i don't know about that, i have never been to the site yet , but it not as bad as the towers in front , like sardines staked up on one other it seems from photos posted, the torch has an advantage i think.

on a separate note, i got an email confirming before i signed the contract a few day ago that ds will not be claiming the delay up to date as "forced"

I have seen a plot for sale in district 10 of dubai marina, the same district as where the torch is the plot is for sale for AED 250,000,000 G+ UNLIMITED. 37,000 SQ2 FOOT

I FEAR THE WORST IS THIS PLOT IN FRONT OF THE TORCH?

What will be constructed in front of TT is very important indeed, so much so that a few months ago we had endless discussion/speculation about the matter. However this was clogging up the TT thread so much that we set up a separate thread for it. So please post here:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=438699

i paid for a marina facing aparment high up floor 48. if their is something blocking my view and ds dont reimburse me im going to find that mr stott or whatever his name is and cut of his bollocks.

being lied to is what pisses me off and most probably other investors.
We have to find out a.s.a.p about this plot in front of the torch.
i am currently doing my research and will try and find out some info.

any news investors and bits of info about this plot would help my research.

Use a nice blunt knife smshah make it slow and painfull. He is easy to find just ask the valet at the Buddah Bar who parked his white Lambo last nite. Seriously if you were so keen on a marina view why buy a quarter of a mile off the waters edge with serious prime location in front of you. Paloma etc would of been a better deal. The site has a mimimum of 300 people working today when i visited. Looks like the slip form is soon to go again.

i have a "sea view", and prefer the extra size you get & the layout. (1 bedroom in the teens) mind you cant deny the attraction of a view.

shaffar you should visit the site and you will see what kinda view you are gonna get from the teens so you aint 2 dissapointed in 2010 when you get your keys.

Use a nice blunt knife smshah make it slow and painfull. He is easy to find just ask the valet at the Buddah Bar who parked his white Lambo last nite. Seriously if you were so keen on a marina view why buy a quarter of a mile off the waters edge with serious prime location in front of you. Paloma etc would of been a better deal. The site has a mimimum of 300 people working today when i visited. Looks like the slip form is soon to go again.


TO CHARLIE: on what site is their 300 people working on? may i ask?

i paid for a marina facing aparment high up floor 48. if their is something blocking my view and ds dont reimburse me im going to find that mr stott or whatever his name is and cut of his bollocks.

being lied to is what pisses me off and most probably other investors.
We have to find out a.s.a.p about this plot in front of the torch.
i am currently doing my research and will try and find out some info.

any news investors and bits of info about this plot would help my research.

Sorry I don't understand this at all.....on what basis have DS lied to you ??


BTW if there is something low rise in front of TT (which is still very likely) then investors with an uninterrupted Marina view will find their apartments worth hell of a lot of money, there aren't going to be many supertalls with a view straight down the Marina like this.

DS have made no contractual promise regarding what will be built in front of TT. If you bought an apartment on the basis of a verbal assurance from a salesman then you have no comeback whatsoever.

I bought a high up marina facing apartment and was well aware of the risk that something could be built in front. I am just hoping that any building in front will not be higher than 50 floors.

Pics around the Torch, dated 28-July-2007

http://i9.tinypic.com/4t6f0d4.jpg

Pics around the Torch, dated 28-July-2007

http://i13.tinypic.com/6gkpauo.jpg

Pics around the Torch, dated 28-July-2007

http://i16.tinypic.com/6geantj.jpg

Thanks for the pics HateTorch :cheers:
Great to see the core rising, but the overall progress is disapointing. I could remember a post where DS said that the podium would be finnished by the end of June. :lol:

TO CHARLIE: on what site is their 300 people working on? may i ask?

TT has 7 buses with 40 plus arrive and leave daily shame we cant say the same about The Point.

i paid for a marina facing aparment high up floor 48. if their is something blocking my view and ds dont reimburse me im going to find that mr stott or whatever his name is and cut of his bollocks.

being lied to is what pisses me off and most probably other investors.
We have to find out a.s.a.p about this plot in front of the torch.
i am currently doing my research and will try and find out some info.

any news investors and bits of info about this plot would help my research.

I found the following ad on the internet (looks kinda amateur but could be for real). I have emailed the advertiser and asked if this is in front of TT.

The 2nd ad says its touching the water. I would have expected the 1st ad to also say this if it is in front of TT.

Considering that this has to be the most prime location on the marina, I find it hard to believe that they need to advertise to sell it.

Dubai Marina Unlimited
plot size: 37,000
price: non negotiable: 250,000,000
residential....but if emaar permits u can change it
district 10
PLot number : N/A
Client is ready to issue an LOI.....with a penalty clause of 5 mill....going both ways

Dubai Marina
Two plots next to each other prime location as well
Main tower is g+29 (this plot is touching the water)
Second tower is g+14
total built up area is 475, 500 sq ft
Asking price all incl is 185million(negotiable)

shaffar you should visit the site and you will see what kinda view you are gonna get from the teens so you aint 2 dissapointed in 2010 when you get your keys.

visited the marina walk in 06, i know the torch is within walking distance , that was sufficient to buy, not interested in the view prefer the extra size, although as i said, i see the attraction.

The advertiser just confirmed to me that the plots for sale in my previous post are not the plots in front of TT i.e. A5C, A5D and A5E

So the mystery continues...

That is good news then. Did he say which ones they are out of interest. Perhaps one in front of Infinity?

He confirmed that it wasn't the plot numbers in front of TT.
He then said that he couldn't tell me the plot numbers he meant and then went on to mention A23A and A23C later in the email so I'm not sure what he was up to...

In that case probably just one of the remaining plots in the tallest block

over the past few works i have been contacting sales agents that deal strictly with land plots in dubai. i have pretended to be a development compnay interested in purchasing plots in dubai marina. i have also enquired about this plot in front of the torch as a interested buyer.

all the agents i have contacted then did their research in this plot as i was an interested in this plot. 2 agents i spoke also had contacts in emaar they said to me and they will ask them.

All the agents i spoke to came back with saying that this plot is not for sale and it is owned by EMAAR.
And we must also remember emaar do not build supertalls in the dubai marina. hopefully they will not.

they also said to me that this plot is part of EMAAR original masterplan.

investors your feedback will be helpful
smshah10@sky.com

this unlimited plot has been around the market since summer last year and has still not been sold.
prices were around 150mil last year summer and then it went to 180mil and so on..
there were supposedly 4 plots in dubai marina with unlimited status,
i heard rostamani owns one but he is not selling..

emaar themselves said there was no such thing as unlimited status and the plots would be within a certain GFA...and agents were just wasting their time however there was a bad case of "under the table dealing" from emaar..





I found the following ad on the internet (looks kinda amateur but could be for real). I have emailed the advertiser and asked if this is in front of TT.

The 2nd ad says its touching the water. I would have expected the 1st ad to also say this if it is in front of TT.

Considering that this has to be the most prime location on the marina, I find it hard to believe that they need to advertise to sell it.

Dubai Marina Unlimited
plot size: 37,000
price: non negotiable: 250,000,000
residential....but if emaar permits u can change it
district 10
PLot number : N/A
Client is ready to issue an LOI.....with a penalty clause of 5 mill....going both ways

Dubai Marina
Two plots next to each other prime location as well
Main tower is g+29 (this plot is touching the water)
Second tower is g+14
total built up area is 475, 500 sq ft
Asking price all incl is 185million(negotiable)

^^ Well, all the plots in the tallest block are unlimited aren't they? There are still a few plots left there.

Apologies for being slightly off-topic but can anyone give me a ballpark idea of how much it will cost for a high quality furniture package which includes everything I'll need to rent out by 2 bed apt including furniture, beds and flatscreen TVs (in living room and master bedroom), rugs right down to cutlery.


Many Thanks

Apologies for being slightly off-topic but can anyone give me a ballpark idea of how much it will cost for a high quality furniture package which includes everything I'll need to rent out by 2 bed apt including furniture, beds and flatscreen TVs (in living room and master bedroom), rugs right down to cutlery.


Many Thanks

60000 dirham ( i.e.£7.50):colgate:

Today is full of disappointment for me!

There is no way that, this is a good progress and on target for achieving even my own predicted completion of March 2010. I will have to revise my own estimate again.

Consider this, Its taking over three years to build Timeplace, built by the same contractor, 34 floors + 1 G with average 500 to 900 workers and with the famous 24 hours working (not).

Now considering that you are loosing AED130K for every one bedded apartment per year (at current rate), the compensation is counting for absolutely nothing IMO. :bash:

Never mind, I can always rely on DS fan club to tell me something positive to cheer me up, go on Morris :)

Today is full of disappointment for me!

There is no way that, this is a good progress and on target for achieving even my own predicted completion of March 2010. I will have to revise my own estimate again.

Consider this, Its taking over three years to build Timeplace, built by the same contractor, 34 floors + 1 G with average 500 to 900 workers and with the famous 24 hours working (not).

Now considering that you are loosing AED130K for every one bedded apartment per year (at current rate), the compensation is counting for absolutely nothing IMO. :bash:

Never mind, I can always rely on DS fan club to tell me something positive to cheer me up, go on Morris :)


i think the torch tower will be completed on schedule and to a gold standard.

kind regards

yours sincerely

the ds fan club:dance2:

Apologies for being slightly off-topic but can anyone give me a ballpark idea of how much it will cost for a high quality furniture package which includes everything I'll need to rent out by 2 bed apt including furniture, beds and flatscreen TVs (in living room and master bedroom), rugs right down to cutlery.


Many Thanks

Its worth reading about this in the investment thread, this issue has been discussed in details before.

I was advised by a couple of agents not to furnish if you are leasing long term, and only furnish if you are going to go with the short term /holidays rental.

i think the torch tower will be completed on schedule and to a gold standard.

kind regards

yours sincerely

the ds fan club:dance2:

:lol:

It did make me laugh .

Today is full of disappointment for me!

There is no way that, this is a good progress and on target for achieving even my own predicted completion of March 2010. I will have to revise my own estimate again.

Consider this, Its taking over three years to build Timeplace, built by the same contractor, 34 floors + 1 G with average 500 to 900 workers and with the famous 24 hours working (not).

Now considering that you are loosing AED130K for every one bedded apartment per year (at current rate), the compensation is counting for absolutely nothing IMO. :bash:

Never mind, I can always rely on DS fan club to tell me something positive to cheer me up, go on Morris :)

To be honest I agree with you Mackie, I can't see this being finished by September 2009 there's so much work to be done. Comparing progress with MIG 218 or Marina 23 all seem to be slow, though to be fair I can't see that TT is much out of line with them. I've heard the basement and podium levels take the most time to get going so, hopefully in a few months time we should see faster progress. However yes, we will be losing a lot of rental monies here.

To be honest I agree with you Mackie, I can't see this being finished by September 2009 there's so much work to be done. Comparing progress with MIG 218 or Marina 23 all seem to be slow, though to be fair I can't see that TT is much out of line with them. I've heard the basement and podium levels take the most time to get going so, hopefully in a few months time we should see faster progress. However yes, we will be losing a lot of rental monies here.

you're sacked.:happy:

you're sacked.:happy:

Well I'm only keeping to the company's policy, to be open, honest and transparent with customers.............oh fuck, where's the job centre !! :nuts:

Well I'm only keeping to the company's policy, to open, honest and transparent with customers.............oh fuck, where's the job centre !! :nuts:

morris, you've obviously missed some important meetings............:speech:

Well I'm only keeping to the company's policy, to be open, honest and transparent with customers.............oh fuck, where's the job centre !! :nuts:

Transparency is not good mate:nono:

If you wish to be a success in the world, promise everything, deliver nothing.

However yes, we will be losing a lot of rental monies here.

We shouldn't be, because DS should compensate us. If not, they could have a long wait for their completion monies...

^^ And you'll have an even longer wait for the start of your rental money ...

^^ And you'll have an even longer wait for the start of your rental money ...

then they will have an EVEN LONGER wait for their completion money.....................:sly:

Next

^^ So are you saying that you'll get your keys before paying the last installment? ... dream about it.

If you're thinking about withholding the last installment of the 15 years plan, then be prepared to say buy buy forever to your apartment in there.

Bloody well hope we get the keys by then..........last instalment is due June 2024.

:lol:

^^ So are you saying that you'll get your keys before paying the last installment? ... dream about it.

If you're thinking about withholding the last installment of the 15 years plan, then be prepared to say buy buy forever to your apartment in there.

Funnily enough, I did have a dream about getting my keys before the last installment. For the sake of my tenants I hope my dream comes true..........:hammer:

As for withholding payments, the cunning thing about withholding the last installment of the 15 year plan is that Dubai Select will have NO IDEA I'm planning to do it for 15 years! They are gullible fools my friend. Gullible fools.:banana: :lol: :blahblah:

^^ So are you saying that you'll get your keys before paying the last installment? ... dream about it.

If you're thinking about withholding the last installment of the 15 years plan, then be prepared to say buy buy forever to your apartment in there.

Stop paying your installment, you lose your apartment and/or get fined for it. Pay and satisfy all your contractual agreement - you still lose as completion date is anyones guess. Compensation - peanuts compared to potential rental income, still lose. Hate to say guys, but you are all f#@ked. The reputation of the developer goes a long way these days. Hit me back DS fan club, or are they now slipping :cheers:

Stop paying your installment, you lose your apartment and/or get fined for it. Pay and satisfy all your contractual agreement - you still lose as completion date is anyones guess. Compensation - peanuts compared to potential rental income, still lose. Hate to say guys, but you are all f#@ked. The reputation of the developer goes a long way these days. Hit me back DS fan club, or are they now slipping :cheers:

by best estimation the rental yield in 2-3 years will be down to a more realistic rate of 7-9%, once shortage of quality rentals becomes old news, isn't that similar to the compensation offered by ds?

7-9% of today's prices or the price in 2-3 years time ? (will be much higher)

7-9% of today's prices or the price in 2-3 years time ? (will be much higher)

Steve, not quite sure what you meant

Steve, not quite sure what you meant

Steve thinks that the value of a Torch unit in 2-3 years time will be higher than it is now so 7%-9% of todays value of a unit or 7%-9% of the value of a Torch unit in 2-3 years time could be substantialy different, (we hope).

^^ still u gotta adjust for the timevalue of money and stuff like that dont u?

^^ still u gotta adjust for the timevalue of money and stuff like that dont u?

Ah... that takes me back a bit......"discounted cashflow" remember it from my accountancy exams.

The value today of a future monetary sum or cash flow; the amount that, if received now and invested at an assumed rate of return, equals a given future sum. A known or assumed future amount is discounted by a stipulated rate that might be received if invested over the period of time before the money is received. Example: At an assumed investment return of 20%, the present value of $10,000 receivable in one year is $8333.

source:http://insurance.cch.com/rupps/present-value.htm


Ah... that takes me back a bit......"discounted cashflow" remember it from my accountancy exams.

Could someone help me out..

I am looking to buy in the Point , I have paid the 3k down to DS.

Their contract has arrived and I have not had it checked out by an objective party - i.e a solicitor rather than their in-house contract team (?? conflict of interest or what!).

I guess that all that have purchased in the Torch have had a similiar contract and I was wondering if there were any particularly clauses that were unfavourable or high risk from a buyer perspective?? - The issues of Point/ Torch (Select Properties or their parent company) going into administration or Force Majeure with no refund of downpayments.

Ideally whether someone had it all cleared by a solicitor who understands UAE law... HELP WOULD BE MASSIVELY APPRECIATED!! thanks.

^^

Basicaly all off plan purchase agreements are heavily loaded in favour of the developer in my experience.

Make no mistake about it this is NOT a risk free business.

Here is a list of English speaking DUbai based lawyers recommended by the British embassy.

http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1055784860493

Even if you pay a lawyer £1,000 all they will say is what i have said in my first 2 sentances. The likeklihood is that any changes the lawyer recommends you make to the contract will not be agreed by the developer.

Good luck

This is also my experience with any off-plan development in any country. The lawyer will only advise you about the contract and it is unlikely that they will be able to change anything. Occasionally a contract can have an ammendment made but usually only when a group of buyers push for the same thing together. Once I was able to add a compensation clause in a contract that was missing by complaining at a draft contract at the early stages. This clause was then added in for everyone in the final contract.

Appreciate your response:

My main concern is that if Select Properties goes into liquidation what insurance would we get..who would take over the development? and within the contract is there something that stipulates some level of insurance/ contingency in the event that this happens.

I forsee that the risk is there, as Select properties being the secondary developers do not have the same finances/company value as buying from Emaar directly.

Again, any help would be really appreciated

^^ As an investor, you have little protection if the developer goes bust. If this were to happen you become an ordinary creditor who is owed the money you paid. You have no title or rights to the asset as this is conveyed at the completion when the final payment and handover of keys takes place.

Try insisting on a payment schedule with say 30% at completion instead of a heavily front loaded scheme which favours the developer. This limits your exposure and risk. Don't take too much comfort from compensation clauses as there is generally a get out clause linked with them.

Developers will try and tell you that they are not changing the contract for one person, don't believe it! Be prepared to walk away if they don't offer some flexibility. If they are too rigid the reason is that they know that they are going to break their word and that the contract has been carefully designed to protect them from you. Ask yourself, why won't they take any risk relating to their own promises but you have to.

7-9% of today's prices or the price in 2-3 years time ? (will be much higher)

only time will tell if the oversupply will affect prices, but location is key , hopping you're right steve.

hasn't ds (so they said) with the point project enrolled in to a scheme were payment made are held by an independent third party, and only released as certain targets are met with construction?

Remember that the prices of the torch today seem to be not much more than 2 or 3 years ago because of lack of confidence in a new developer and the plot in front. So we are owed 2 years of growth already for a completed property. Compare the price per sq ft of a torch resale to that of a newly launched emaar development for example. There is still a very large potential profit to make in a torch investment.

^^

I agree. Torch prices have only increased by about 6% from original launch till now which is around 2 years. Take into account inflation and recent buyers are paying around the same price but with the advantage of 7.4 Dirham to the Pound as opposed to around 6.5 at launch.

One massive advanatage of investing early on in the Torch is that there is a clause in the contract that states if the development is not finished by July 2009 (i think) then you can ask for a full refund of all monies paid. So if Emaar or whoever puts a 1,000 feet high lump of concrete in front of your window then a lot of investors could potential get a full refund on this basis.

DS have now changed the completion date to accomadate their delays so it looks like a dead cert that this will not finish in time.

Hard to say what a resale value in the Torch would be at this early stage. The biggest gamble in my opinion is what happens with the plots in front of the Torch. It could go either way ! !

If it is low to medium rise 10-40 fl then i think the prices of Torch units will jump up quickly when the facts are known.

If it is a supertower 50-80 fl then forget making a decent profit on a resale.

As it is DS first development i think they will do everything in their power to make it a success (I'm sure Morris will agree) :lol:

PRINGLED;

The only other thing i can add is if you are considering paying cash for your unit/s, then dont.

If you go for the lenghty payment plan then you will limit your exposure to a degree as the cost of this facility when i calculated it was aroun 6.7%. So keep your capital and invest it elsewhere (bank etc). This way if things dont work out you wont have lost all your investment.

Hope this helps.

HT

^^

One massive advanatage of investing early on in the Torch is that there is a clause in the contract that states if the development is not finished by July 2009 (i think) then you can ask for a full refund of all monies paid. So if Emaar or whoever puts a 1,000 feet high lump of concrete in front of your window then a lot of investors could potential get a full refund on this basis.
HT

Interesting.
I personally don't see this tower completed by July 2009, taking into account its current status, summer working hours and size of the workforce on site.

Could that cause DS to go bankrupt if all investors demand their money back? Could happen since prices have only gone up by 6% over the last 2 years.

Interesting.
I personally don't see this tower completed by July 2009, taking into account its current status, summer working hours and size of the workforce on site.


The revised completion date is actually September 2009.

Yes but no but yes but the contract says you can cancel the agreement after July 2009 if not completed yet.

Could that cause DS to go bankrupt if all investors demand their money back? Could happen since prices have only gone up by 6% over the last 2 years.

The tower will be well advanced by this time and I doubt many would want to request a refund. Not everybody has bought a Marina view so even if there was an 80 storey tower in front, three quarters of investors are not going to be affected. Even if this worst case scenario happens (unlikely IMO) Marina side views will be no worse than the sea facing side of TT which has Princess tower in front - the increase in value will more than offset the restricted views.

As I mentioned a few months ago I paid AED 752k for a Media City view one bed, similar size unit with same view, similar floor, in Marina Heights was being advertised for AED 1.34m. I'll certainly not be requesting my money back !! :cheers:

BTW who says prices have only increased by 6% ?? I guess more like 15 to 20%. Let's see......Has anybody got a current price for a unit and I'll compare with original launch price list ??

Yes but no but yes but the contract says you can cancel the agreement after July 2009 if not completed yet.

Sorry Steve, you're right was getting confused....had a busy day.:lol:

The tower will be well advanced by this time and I doubt many would want to request a refund. Not everybody has bought a Marina view so even if there was an 80 storey tower in front, three quarters of investors are not going to be affected. Even if this worst case scenario happens (unlikely IMO) Marina side views will be no worse than the sea facing side of TT which has Princess tower in front - the increase in value will more than offset the restricted views.

As I mentioned a few months ago I paid AED 752k for a Media City view one bed, similar size unit with same view, similar floor, in Marina Heights was being advertised for AED 1.34m. I'll certainly not be requesting my money back !! :cheers:

BTW who says prices have only increased by 6% ?? I guess more like 15 to 20%. Let's see......Has anybody got a current price for a unit and I'll compare with original launch price list ??

as always the voice of reason morris.

for a guide to what you're torch apt is worth, find out what people are getting per sq foot in marina heights, same aspect, knock off a little bit as mh may have slightly better positioning, and there you have it.

OBVIOUSLY the torch needs to be built first:bash:
OBVIOUSLY a 50+ lump of concrete blocking the view will effect the calculations:nuts:
OBVIOUSLY it needs to be finished to a half decent spec:stupid:
OBVIOUSLY if DS leave us with a pile of sand because they're all crooks we're all completely f**ked:weird:

thats why its not the same as putting your money in the bank. lets roll the dice and see............................:cheers:

Latest updates from DS website:

http://i13.tinypic.com/4ku0tix.jpg

These are the corners of the tower itself, so these will extend all 81 floors of the building.

http://i11.tinypic.com/5x4absn.jpg

http://i17.tinypic.com/4vrekn7.jpg

All 3 cranes now operation on the site.

http://i9.tinypic.com/63rwg78.jpg

This is the ramp that will go down to basement level 4 of car parking.

http://i9.tinypic.com/66lp24m.jpg

There are cable trays that protect folded away rebar that reinforces the concrete, these front covers are then removed and the rebar pulled which is where the floor will be joined to the core itself or structural walls. The rebar can be seen below where the outside tray covers have already been removed.

http://i15.tinypic.com/4ouyp85.jpg

Good news.....your apartment's finished now Barry ......... will look stunning when you put your curtains up !! :lol:


http://i15.tinypic.com/4ouyp85.jpg

Good news.....your apartment's finished now Barry ......... will look stunning when you put your curtains up !! :lol:


http://i15.tinypic.com/4ouyp85.jpg

I think Barry's already been given his keys and has moved in.

His white hotpants are drying nicely on the metal bar...

Have you got internet connection in there Barry ??

Have you got internet connection in there Barry ??

those hotpants are my curtains. all part of the fabulous ds furniture package.
have to go to grosvenor house to get online, though ds are promising free hook up to terrestrial tv (5 channels only) by 2021.:cheers2:

The revised completion date is actually September 2009.

2.5years minimum till completion.
How about if DS give their projects to Marina Diamond to manage.:bash: :lol:

I posted a question with regards to there being any assurances if the developer went bust...and it appears there is not.
Fair enough, we take our risks as we see them and decide whether the reward level is sufficient.

Next question.. does anyone know the credentials of Dubai Select LLC?

On the face of it...it appears to me- They have a slick front end (sales/marketing) but a mysterious back end (ie secrecy in their financial stability/ how developments are financed... )

These are some of my concerns that i was hoping someone could challenge me on them..

1) DS Projects are financed via the investors
2) Dubai Select have yet to complete any project they have had sole development responsibility for.
3) In fact none of their projects are above ground and all are severely delayed (although I appreciate most are in Dubai)
4) It is impossible to get any financial information on the company that you are placing 100k + with.
5) If they went bust they could take all torch/point payment monies, fine - escrows would go back to BC investors but all this is doing is offering more confidence in DS without them actually giving anything other than a fair service.

To make it clear I am not stating that DS are a bad company or that there is anything untoward. However, as any investor should - I am looking at the negatives/worst case scenario and hoping that either a more educated investor could offer facts in respect to my thoughts...

I hope to hear from you soon.
Any help would be appreciated

Appreciate your response:

My main concern is that if Select Properties goes into liquidation what insurance would we get..who would take over the development? and within the contract is there something that stipulates some level of insurance/ contingency in the event that this happens.

I forsee that the risk is there, as Select properties being the secondary developers do not have the same finances/company value as buying from Emaar directly.

Again, any help would be really appreciated

As far as I can tell, we collectively have very little in the way of protection against this kind of eventuality, other than the hope that if something like this did occur, the ruling family would step in via Emaar or one of the other major developers that have the royals behind them, because of their desire to protect the brand that is Dubai.

Great to see the good progress!!

PRINGLED.

I agree DS marketing is very slick lets face it this is how the company started. They are basicaly a marketing outfit that saw the potential £££ in developing as well and decided to have a go.

With regard to secrecy there is no company on earth that will want the public, competitors, let alone customers to see how their finances are managed. That would be commercial suicide.

If DS were incorparated in the UK you would be able to view their accounts at Companies House but there not so you cant. I tried and got a very nasty shock, here -

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/3627d72c0c0a47525a002c93c94a92bb/compdetails

Enter "SELECT PROPERTIES LIMITED"

I hope the two companies are not linked in any way :no:

I dont know if Dubai has a similar governing body where accounts are filed for public view, but i doubt it very much.

Somehow DS have managed to get the financial backing to offer a non status borrowing facility (this means that for every unit purchased on the lengthy payment plan, a 3rd party has paid DS the cash up front and is charging the purchasers interest on the loan).

I am in the Financial Services industry in the UK, trust me for a company to get this kind of funding from an undisclosed backer they must either have very good financial standing, or very indecent photographs of the CEO of a major Bank. Possibly both. :lol:

Basicaly it all breaks down like this.

DONT INVEST WHAT YOU CANT AFFORD TO LOOSE.

I am in the Financial Services industry in the UK, trust me for a company to get this kind of funding from an undisclosed backer they must either have very good financial standing, or very indecent photographs of the CEO of a major Bank. Possibly both. :lol:

Basicaly it all breaks down like this.

DONT INVEST WHAT YOU CANT AFFORD TO LOOSE.

You're absolutely correct here High Times!

Never invest what you cannot afford to lose! Any investor/developer that's worth his sort should know this! You don't put all your eggs in one basket and then leave yourself without a pot to piss in! To risk your entire life's savings is very foolish imo! But don't get me wrong here, I do understand and respect peoples' reasons for doing this...but if you want to live on the edge then you'd better back it up with some seriously hard tactics!

If you happen to have plenty of spare cash "resting" in the bank in Switzerland and you happen to get your kicks by taking huge risks/gambles' on the throw of the dice (as I do from time to time. used to be addicted to gambling. lost and made a fortune over the years) then great! But please, always be prepared, and always keep it real!

PRINGLED.

If DS were incorparated in the UK you would be able to view their accounts at Companies House but there not so you cant. I tried and got a very nasty shock, here -

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/3627d72c0c0a47525a002c93c94a92bb/compdetails

Enter "SELECT PROPERTIES LIMITED"


Hoping Morris would comment on this.

This is the correct one:

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/8bdbb28e34fe9c69be8238bb19894f17/compdetails

Hoping Morris would comment on this.

^^ They are called Select Property Group Ltd. Search for that and it shows the correct company.

This is the correct one:

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/8bdbb28e34fe9c69be8238bb19894f17/compdetails

^^ The links are unique everytime and don't work for others. You need to search for the company.

Hoping Morris would comment on this.

What is it exactly that you want me to comment on ??

Dear Investors

I would like to hear the opinion of the investors of DS. which investment do u think is better for location and building style, apartment looks etc etc . Please compare The torch buidling and bay central (center tower) only.
i personally heard that the torch is in the better location than bay central because it is very close to phase 1 of dubai marina. and i heard a rumour that these is going to be a metro stop very close to phase 1.

your views will be most welcome

Why does everyone think that being next to phase 1 is a major selling point for a property which is years away from delivery? Being next to phase 1 for the last few years has been good because its the only place active. By the time the Torch is built there will be many more areas of interest than just phase 1. The mall and the walk for example.

Every man to his own, but I have little interest in the area as it will be plagued by construction for many years. Not exactly a good recipe for a holiday home.

The torch is in the better location as it is the furthest point from the arse end smog. Also if there is a view it will feel more open looking down the length of the marina. Also being easy walking distance to Grosvenor House can't be bad. But best of all it is next to the "Unknown Emaar" development, which is an exciting place to be right now :lol:

In the long run the tallest block in the planet will be the place to be and often shown in movies I am sure.

location is the key for a happy investor
and for god sake Pringled, your depressing, Morris do somethings

In the long run the tallest block in the planet will be the place to be and often shown in movies I am sure.

Damn right it will! Once completed this block will be simply head and shoulders above everything and anything on the planet!!! I personally know up to about 40 people who want to buy on this block... they won't be able to build these towers quick enough. :cheers: :banana: :banana: :banana:

the reason whi i ask is because im being offered to give up my torch apartment 2 bedroom 4806 marina facing apartment and buy in bay central tower (center tower) i originally bought the 2 bedroom torch apartment for 1.29

the reason whi i ask is because im being offered to give up my torch apartment 2 bedroom 4806 marina facing apartment and buy in bay central tower (center tower) i originally bought the 2 bedroom torch apartment for 1.29m AED . The bay central 3 bedroom marina facing apartment is being offered for 2.5M AED. of course i have to give up all may gains in the torch apartment.

investors please your advice would be helpful. is it best to swap for a guaranted view of the marina when in the torch another buidling could be built in front above 54 floors ruining my views. of course the new apartment is double my money. your advice would be helpful

^^ It is only a good idea if you get them to sell it to me for the same price you give it back for(AED 1.29M).

Sounds like a stupid idea to me, unless of course I gat your apartment for the 1.29M :)

Morris and I could even go halves:)

the reason whi i ask is because im being offered to give up my torch apartment 2 bedroom 4806 marina facing apartment and buy in bay central tower (center tower) i originally bought the 2 bedroom torch apartment for 1.29m AED . The bay central 3 bedroom marina facing apartment is being offered for 2.5M AED. of course i have to give up all may gains in the torch apartment.

investors please your advice would be helpful. is it best to swap for a guaranted view of the marina when in the torch another buidling could be built in front above 54 floors ruining my views. of course the new apartment is double my money. your advice would be helpful

I dont think its a good idea smshah. Paying double the price for an apt with one more bedroom is not good imo. You will get nowhere near double the rental income for the one in BC

03/Aug/2007

The Torch

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7744/imresolt127cr8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8898/imresolt128tp3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3628/imresolt129wp0.th.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt129wp0.jpg)http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6020/imresolt130us4.th.jpg (http://img255.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt130us4.jpg)http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/4391/imresolt131or6.th.jpg (http://img359.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt131or6.jpg)http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2496/imresolt135dt8.th.jpg (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imresolt135dt8.jpg)

^^ It is only a good idea if you get them to sell it to me for the same price you give it back for(AED 1.29M).

Sounds like a stupid idea to me, unless of course I gat your apartment for the 1.29M :)

Morris and I could even go halves:)

I'm in, make it thirds, I will sleep on the sofa :D

dear investors

come on staright answers please opinions. advantages and disadvantages of swapping into bay central from the torch.


your advice will be appreciated investors.

Positives of moving to Bay Central:

Bay Central will be easier to rent out (especially on short terms)
Rent will be higher (but rental return % will not)
Close to the Marina Mall, Beach Park, JBR The Walk and Gourmet Tower!
Guaranteed marina views.
More (and less crowded) facilities and a bar close by

Negatives of moving to Bay Central:

Apartment sizes are smaller
More expensive
You will loose all of your profits from the Torch investment so far
You will have higher repayments during construction with no rent
You will have a longer wait until completion

I would say go for it if you want to use it for yourself mostly otherwise you have too much to loose.

dear investors

come on staright answers please opinions. advantages and disadvantages of swapping into bay central from the torch.


your advice will be appreciated investors.

^^ Not a good idea IMHO. You have too much to loose and very little to gain like Steve said. I think BayCentral will take at least 2 years more than the torch to complete.
If you are desperate to live in BC rather than the Torch and you have the money for the deposit on the Flat in BC then buy it on a 15 year term. Keep hold of the Torch flat, rent it out for the 18-24 months it will take BC to complete. Use the proceeds to pay off some of the money for the BC flat. When BC is complete sell the Torch flat. Irrespective of what goes up in front of the Torch you WILL get back more than the 1.3 mil SP are offering you at the moment.

IMHO with the 2 year rental income and the profit from the Torch flat on completion you will be 3/4 - 1 Mil AED better off. This will more than pay for any extra Interest costs incurred even if you had to remortgage to get the deposit for the BC flat.

That is what I would do if was desperate to have Marina Views from BC but I am not. I am a Cityscape fan myself. I love looking over sprawling cities at night from a balcony so I got a cheaper 03 type apartment. Especially when the SP (DS at the time) Sales director told me something WILL be built on the EMAAR sales office site. Whenever I make an investement decision I don't mind risks but I hate uncertainty, not knowing what was going on that plot would have driven me bonkers.

I knew my apartment would be less desirable (for most people) I knew it would probably rent for slightly less but then again I knew nobody will be building a tower in the middle of the road!

Sorry for going OT but as someone earlier said 3/4 of investors won't really be affected what goes up in front unless it is a shopping centre/arcade hotel etc which would benefit everyone.

Positives of moving to Bay Central:

Bay Central will be easier to rent out (especially on short terms)
Rent will be higher (but rental return % will not)
Close to the Marina Mall, Beach Park, JBR The Walk and Gourmet Tower!
Guaranteed marina views.
More (and less crowded) facilities and a bar close by

Negatives of moving to Bay Central:

Apartment sizes are smaller
More expensive
You will loose all of your profits from the Torch investment so far
You will have higher repayments during construction with no rent
You will have a longer wait until completion

I would say go for it if you want to use it for yourself mostly otherwise you have too much to loose.


dear steve

thanks for your advice but could i also have positives and negatives of the torch being that im on floor 4806 marina facing and paid onbly 1.29m.

your advice would be appreciated.

High Times... I have credit checked Select Properties - there is no history as they have only been incorporated for a short time and not opened their accounts

I have also credit checked their parent company Stott Group Limited and their credit score is 6 out of 100- and descirbed as very high risk. RBS has secured all of their assets for security.

This makes for a slightly worrying time, although select properties are simply the marketing arm for Dubai Select LLC (where I can get no information due to them being a Dubai based co). Dubai selet the largest private developers in the Marina- with no track record, no completed properties and no development higher than a lollipop.

This may be a Depressing thread but i am asking questions, asking advice and making the only true statement other than the obvious build delays that their uk arms have awful credit (i also appreciate they will have made large capital outlays).


Does anyone know any objective information about Dubai Select LLC - who holds majority share? Would Select Group bail them out.
For other investors - would this give you cause for major concern?

Can anyone give any factual/objective direction that would offer confidence that DS would not turn into another lighthouse or Pearl scenario?

I am not here to point fingers, just doing the job of due dilligance and with some very clued up people- where better to find it.

Thanks

I think you guys are paranoid over too much. Just look at the wind towers thread for real trouble, or even the ocean heights who awarded the main contract more than 2 years too late.

As my Grandfather always told me - if in doubt, hold back. It will save you many sleepless nights.

It seems highly unlikely that this tower won't be completed - unless something very unusual happens.

^^ Your Grandfather is a wise man!:)

i am actually buying in the point...but no one is on that thread

I'm in, make it thirds, I will sleep on the sofa :D

Sounds good, its all down to smshah now, I have a feeling he will let us down :)
Morris could be our sales guy using all of his expertise working for DS :)

dear investors

come on staright answers please opinions. advantages and disadvantages of swapping into bay central from the torch.


your advice will be appreciated investors.

Here is a straight answer for you:

Sell Steve, Morris and I the apartment for AED1.29M, we get all the negatives of the Torch and you get all the positive of BC, it was a serious offer by the way!

Delays notwithstanding, what does it take to make a project like the Torch successful? 1)money, 2)good project design and 3) good project management. Now as long as those apartments get sold, and since payments go to the company and not into an escrow account, then point one is satisfied. As for project design, I haven't seen many complaints here about that, so things look good on that level. The last outstanding issue--project management, some (many?) questions have been raised here about that, but on the face of things, this project seems more or less par for the course as things go in Dubai--including the poor customer service. So, regardless of the unknown or non-existent record of this company, on the three points which I'd say are most crucial, they look OK.

So, while I think it is a great idea for people, especially investors, to keep tabs on this operation, it is also worthwhile to consider that on the fundamental issues things look OK. The focus of investor efforts then ought not to be to continue raising alarm bells, but to point out issues related to project management as they come up, to make sure this project stays on course. I.e., as long as progress is ongoing--and that is now easy to verify as the tower begins to rise--don't blow so much steam over slipping completion dates. Delay--1, 2 years--is par for the course in Dubai. Notwithstanding delays, projects being delivered to acceptable standards is the real measure of success. That, if you are an inverstor, is the bottom line.

Delays notwithstanding, what does it take to make a project like the Torch successful? 1)money, 2)good project design and 3) good project management. Now as long as those apartments get sold, and since payments go to the company and not into an escrow account, then point one is satisfied. As for project design, I haven't seen many complaints here about that, so things look good on that level. The last outstanding issue--project management, some (many?) questions have been raised here about that, but on the face of things, this project seems more or less par for the course as things go in Dubai--including the poor customer service. So, regardless of the unknown or non-existent record of this company, on the three points which I'd say are most crucial, they look OK.

So, while I think it is a great idea for people, especially investors, to keep tabs on this operation, it is also worthwhile to consider that on the fundamental issues things look OK. The focus of investor efforts then ought not to be to continue raising alarm bells, but to point out issues related to project management as they come up, to make sure this project stays on course. I.e., as long as progress is ongoing--and that is now easy to verify as the tower begins to rise--don't blow so much steam over slipping completion dates. Delay--1, 2 years--is par for the course in Dubai. Notwithstanding delays, projects being delivered to acceptable standards is the real measure of success. That, if you are an inverstor, is the bottom line.

Please tell me that you are kidding, delay of two to three years and loss of revenue are ok with you as an investor? :bash:

Is that what an investor look for? Projects being delivered to acceptable standards!

High Times... I have credit checked Select Properties - there is no history as they have only been incorporated for a short time and not opened their accounts

I have also credit checked their parent company Stott Group Limited and their credit score is 6 out of 100- and descirbed as very high risk. RBS has secured all of their assets for security.

This makes for a slightly worrying time, although select properties are simply the marketing arm for Dubai Select LLC (where I can get no information due to them being a Dubai based co). Dubai selet the largest private developers in the Marina- with no track record, no completed properties and no development higher than a lollipop.

This may be a Depressing thread but i am asking questions, asking advice and making the only true statement other than the obvious build delays that their uk arms have awful credit (i also appreciate they will have made large capital outlays).


Does anyone know any objective information about Dubai Select LLC - who holds majority share? Would Select Group bail them out.
For other investors - would this give you cause for major concern?

Can anyone give any factual/objective direction that would offer confidence that DS would not turn into another lighthouse or Pearl scenario?

I am not here to point fingers, just doing the job of due dilligance and with some very clued up people- where better to find it.

Thanks

ds will not turn into another lighthouse or pearl scenario.:cheers:
hope that reassures you.

To qualify investor there are probably two kinds, whose perspectives differ. One is the homeowner investor who is awaiting a future residence, who is in it for an eventual home and not to make money on a month-to-month or year-to-year basis. Such an investor is probably ready to put up with delays, as long as they feel assured of a good product in the end. The other investor, who is in it for the monthly returns, i.e. as a business proposition, may understandably be more impatient with regard to delays, but I think it is the investors' own fault if they don't factor in a 1 or 2 year delay from day one--knowing how things generally work in Dubai. I'm willing, by the way, to continue this discussion at Property & Investment in Dubai: Your questions about the market (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=490764).

the reason whi i ask is because im being offered to give up my torch apartment 2 bedroom 4806 marina facing apartment and buy in bay central tower (center tower) i originally bought the 2 bedroom torch apartment for 1.29m AED . The bay central 3 bedroom marina facing apartment is being offered for 2.5M AED. of course i have to give up all may gains in the torch apartment.

investors please your advice would be helpful. is it best to swap for a guaranted view of the marina when in the torch another buidling could be built in front above 54 floors ruining my views. of course the new apartment is double my money. your advice would be helpful

To work out whether or not this is a good idea, I recommend you find out the size of both apartments in square metres or feet and divide the prices by these figures to work out the cost per square metre or foot.

People will argue the relative merits of the exact positions of The Torch and Bay Central and whether a lower-rise block with a hotel is more desirable than a supertall, but I suspect the market will apply a pretty standard value to apartments in Dubai Marina, which will be discounted for those without decent water views.

My guess is that your Torch apartment is a lot better value per square metre/foot than Bay Central, in which case I'd recommend sticking with it.

High Times... I have credit checked Select Properties - there is no history as they have only been incorporated for a short time and not opened their accounts

I have also credit checked their parent company Stott Group Limited and their credit score is 6 out of 100- and descirbed as very high risk. RBS has secured all of their assets for security.

This makes for a slightly worrying time, although select properties are simply the marketing arm for Dubai Select LLC (where I can get no information due to them being a Dubai based co). Dubai selet the largest private developers in the Marina- with no track record, no completed properties and no development higher than a lollipop.

This may be a Depressing thread but i am asking questions, asking advice and making the only true statement other than the obvious build delays that their uk arms have awful credit (i also appreciate they will have made large capital outlays).


Does anyone know any objective information about Dubai Select LLC - who holds majority share? Would Select Group bail them out.
For other investors - would this give you cause for major concern?

Can anyone give any factual/objective direction that would offer confidence that DS would not turn into another lighthouse or Pearl scenario?

I am not here to point fingers, just doing the job of due dilligance and with some very clued up people- where better to find it.

Thanks

I am not an accountant but I would have thought SP would have accountants clever enough to not show their profits in the UK company where it would be taxed heavily.

Also the only income for the Select property marketing arm would the fees/commisions they are charging intercompany.

As for Select Property they may not show any true profits till the tower is complete.

I may be talking out my ar$e and I am sure someone will put me straight.

I am not an accountant but I would have thought SP would have accountants clever enough to not show their profits in the UK company where it would be taxed heavily.

Also the only income for the Select property marketing arm would the fees/commisions they are charging intercompany.

As for Select Property they may not show any true profits till the tower is complete.

I may be talking out my ar$e and I am sure someone will put me straight.

You are pretty much correct.

A company will be taxed in the country in which it is managed and controlled and where it has operations.

I imagine a structure is in place to ensure that this is UAE/Dubai and that the UK is purely a marketing arm - cleverly based in the UK to target wealthy people who have made significant gains from the UK housing boom.

But how about the issue of the parent company, Stott Group having a credit score is 6 out of 100, descirbed as very high risk and RBS has secured all of their assets for security. http://www.stottgroup.co.uk/

I can only assume that they have dropped their software business which was their core source of income before they moved into real estate.

But how about the issue of the parent company, Stott Group having a credit score is 6 out of 100, descirbed as very high risk and RBS has secured all of their assets for security. http://www.stottgroup.co.uk/

I can only assume that they have dropped their software business which was their core source of income before they moved into real estate.

I haven't studied the accounts of Stott Group but I would say that banks very often take a charge over all the companies assets, knows as a "fixed and floating charge" or a "debenture". It's very common in the banking world when lending to limited companies and nothing whatsoever to worry about.

High Times... I have credit checked Select Properties - there is no history as they have only been incorporated for a short time and not opened their accounts

I have also credit checked their parent company Stott Group Limited and their credit score is 6 out of 100- and descirbed as very high risk. RBS has secured all of their assets for security.

This makes for a slightly worrying time, although select properties are simply the marketing arm for Dubai Select LLC (where I can get no information due to them being a Dubai based co). Dubai selet the largest private developers in the Marina- with no track record, no completed properties and no development higher than a lollipop.

This may be a Depressing thread but i am asking questions, asking advice and making the only true statement other than the obvious build delays that their uk arms have awful credit (i also appreciate they will have made large capital outlays).


Does anyone know any objective information about Dubai Select LLC - who holds majority share? Would Select Group bail them out.
For other investors - would this give you cause for major concern?

Can anyone give any factual/objective direction that would offer confidence that DS would not turn into another lighthouse or Pearl scenario?

I am not here to point fingers, just doing the job of due dilligance and with some very clued up people- where better to find it.

Thanks

My personal advice, specifically for you, is to stay away from any private developers such as Select Property and buy into Emaar or Nakheel where they are Government backed, as least you'll sleep soundly at night.

dear investors

come on staright answers please opinions. advantages and disadvantages of swapping into bay central from the torch.


your advice will be appreciated investors.

Sent you a PM but did so before reading today's posts.

My advice would be definitely stick with your Torch unit, you bought at a great pre-launch price, would be much more now. Some people have suggested that TT prices have only gone up by 6% since launch but this appears to be pure guesswork, nobody has provided any facts whatsoever around this so this is just pure bullshit. I purchase my TT unit in Oct'05 and enquired about a similar one bed in May'06 and price was 15% higher.
I reckon your TT two bed would be around 25% more to buy now, perhaps more. But I'm only guessing - might be worth seeing if DS have any similar units like yours for sale and hence you can make a comparison.

So stick with it as BC will cost you hell of a lot more and as you're on 48th floor of TT you'd be pretty unlucky if you lost that Marina view.

Morris do you work for DS?

No he doesn't

Morris do you work for DS?

taxes are a good thing. you should boast about how much tax you pay. taxes help the poor.:dance2:

^^ I'm poor. Can I get an apartment on the Torch?

I purchase my TT unit in Oct'05 and enquired about a similar one bed in May'06 and price was 15% higher.
I reckon your TT two bed would be around 25% more to buy now, perhaps more. But I'm only guessing - might be worth seeing if DS have any similar units like yours for sale and hence you can make a comparison.

Yes but don't forget you did get a big staff discount :lol:


Morris do you work for DS?

Along with Barry, they run the Fan club for them.